It rejuvenates trust, trust, imagine, metamorphize, evolve, and I'm here just to thank you.
Thank you for constantly rejuvenating our trust, thank you for your new membership,
thank you for renewing your memberships, and thank you for paying your pledges, those of
you who have not done that yet, and thank you for being a part of us and supporting
us.
Thank you.
This is Phil Lesch of the Grateful Dead, and you're listening to WBAI-FM, New York City, 99.5.
And you're listening to radio station WBAI.
It's 8 o'clock on a Tuesday night.
This is Emanuel Goldstein, and what's the catch?
This is the first time I've been here in a long time at this hour, and things are always
going wrong, so I'm kind of suspicious.
All right.
So I'm here.
It's the beginning of the show.
We're not canceled.
I'm not on a train someplace.
This is actually going to happen.
All right.
All right.
Roll the theme.
All right.
I'm back.
We'll see you in two minutes.
And a very good evening to everybody.
The program is off the hook.
Emanuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour.
Isaac over there in the corner.
Yes.
How are you doing?
Back on the other side here where it's a lot more calm.
Yeah.
It's good seeing you over there, where you belong.
Oh, okay.
Only kidding, only kidding.
Well, you know, I said goodbye to an old friend this week.
Yeah, that's why I'm in kind of a somber mood,
because I'm going to miss this entity.
Talking about that brilliant light up in the sky,
a mirror, a space station that will come hurtling down to Earth
on the 20th of the month.
I saw it on Saturday night.
You did?
Yeah, it was right there in the evening,
right before the actual darkness set in,
about 6 o'clock or so.
Thanks to various sites that map this kind of thing,
I was able to actually see it go across the sky one last time.
I don't think it's going to be visible again in this hemisphere,
even when it comes down on the 20th.
I think that's only going to be visible in places like New Zealand,
where it might be very visible,
depending on how close it gets to that country.
You'd stay inside visible.
In New Zealand, I'd be pretty upset right now,
all the spacecraft come hurtling down in that area.
But it was an emotional event, actually.
You'd think seeing a little spot of light going across the sky
wouldn't have an effect on you, but you know it did,
because I'd seen this little speck a couple of times.
The first time, I was really kind of freaked out,
because I was looking in the sky,
and I knew it wasn't an airplane.
It was too bright and moved in kind of a weird way.
When you see a satellite, they just don't move the same way as airplanes.
I later looked it up, and sure enough,
a mirror just happened to come across at the very moment
that I was looking up at the sky.
It was kind of cosmic.
Yeah, there's other little lights up there,
but it's just going to be kind of weird,
knowing that one's no longer there.
You can see the International Space Station.
Well, it's not the same thing.
Well, you're losing one, and you're getting a much brighter one.
Everything works out in the end, right?
Mr. Pollyanna over there, thank you very much.
International Space Station will be one of the brightest objects in the sky.
In fact, if you want to be up tonight,
and if somehow the sky clears up,
I think at 4.31 it will be appearing in the New York area,
tomorrow night at 5.03.
If you really want to learn more about this,
go to a site called www.heavens-above.com.
You can map it no matter where you are in the world,
which is kind of cool.
Those guys are very cool.
They are.
They were recently, well, a little while ago,
maybe five, six weeks ago,
everyone was up in arms about them,
because they also like to track some of the black satellites that go up.
Yeah, well, you know.
Keeping parallel across orbits and things like that.
Satellites, you know, whatever color they are, we don't care.
Also, make sure to tune in to Robert Knight's program tomorrow night.
He does an excellent job with tracking things like satellites
and all kinds of other cosmic events that are going on,
as well as earthly events.
In fact, I really should say at this point that I was listening to his show last week.
He does Earthwatch.
It's been on for ages, Wednesday nights at midnight.
And he was discussing the recent Pacifica National Board meeting,
which took place a weekend ago,
and some really, really good coverage, some eye-opening coverage,
some interesting interviews.
And unfortunately, in this day and age,
it takes guts to actually come on the air and do that kind of thing.
So I just want to salute that kind of spirit,
because that's what makes BAI, that's what makes Pacifica what it is,
or what it has been, what it will be again,
whatever it is that you want to define it as.
And there are a lot of people here, you know.
One thing I guess I came to realize,
looking at that little speck of light going across the sky,
it soon will be no more,
is that you have to take the time when you're here
to acknowledge the good things.
Not that it was particularly good seeing it up there,
just kind of reassuring knowing something was there in the sky.
But there are people here that I think really deserve recognition
for the amazing work that they do.
And I was just thinking about this over the last few hours, actually,
how many people there are here at the station that do such good things.
And it's what makes the place worth supporting,
what makes the place worth coming to every week,
what makes the place certainly worth listening to every week.
I could go on for hours about all the different programs
that are on this station that are just amazing,
that just open up your eyes.
Like, say, Bob Fass, for instance,
who has been on this radio station for, I think,
as long as the station's been around.
And he always does interesting interviews,
eye-opening commentary.
And you walk away, or stand up if you've been sitting down,
thinking you've really gotten something out of it.
And I think that really matters.
The list goes on.
I mean, you know, Robert Knight, Bob Fass, Bill Weinberg,
Mario Murillo, Errol Maitland, Ken Nash,
all these people that are either here or not here.
In fact, Ken Nash, it's interesting I mention Ken Nash.
He was on a couple of weeks ago.
And this is the latest saga,
latest chapter in the whole Pacifica BAI thing.
I don't know if you guys have been following this story,
or if we've just been reading things on the Internet.
This is actually something that's going out
throughout the whole world now.
It's no longer a little internal squabble here.
This is now on the floor of the Congress
of the United States of America.
Did you hear about this, Isaac?
No, sir.
Oh, well, maybe you ought to listen to this.
Tyrants in control of totalitarian countries
like China, Serbia, and Iraq
consider control of the airways an absolute necessity.
They ruthlessly enforce censorship
of a kind few of us can imagine in America.
On last Monday, however,
I had the weird and frightening experience
of being gagged by a radio station manager
in my own home city of New York.
It started with a routine request
that I call in for a phone interview
on a show hosted on radio station WBAI
by Ken Nash,
which focuses on union and labor news and features.
The name of the show, which commences at 2 p.m.,
was Building Bridges.
As a ranking Democrat
on the Workforce Protection Subcommittee,
I welcome the chance to appear on shows
related to working families or unions.
It is important to note that radio station WBAI
is a nonprofit station.
It runs primarily on contributions
solicited from a mass of diverse listeners.
Since last December,
the station has experienced considerable turmoil internally,
and long-term producers and hosts
have been fired or locked out of the station.
Like many New Yorkers,
I am concerned about the present and future
of speech on the radio.
Without knowing all of the specific tensions
and confrontations within the station,
I have indicated my interest
in working toward the resolution
of the problems hampering the continuation
of the unique and robust programming of WBAI.
It is important to note
that I am presently seeking ways
to get more avenues open
for radio-free speech in my city in general.
Five low-powered Haitian stations
have been shut down.
The survival of WBAI is vital
for the entire movement
seeking more access to the airwaves.
The bully monopolies of commercial radio
provide the continuing roadblocks to these stations.
My knowledge of the reputation
of certain recent appointments
to the Board of Pacifica Network,
which is a parent nonprofit institution
responsible for WBAI,
leads me to conclude
that there is a clear and immediate danger
that attempts will be made
to sell WBAI to a commercial owner.
Such a sale would mean the loss of a vital voice
for working families in New York City.
My beliefs and point of view
are considered heresy
by station manager Eutrice Lee.
Without explanation or apology,
she shut down the microphones
and proclaimed that she had to intervene
because it was her job
to allow only the truth over the airwaves.
The following is a summary
of a statement I would have made
had I not been censored and shut off.
The situation of WBAI
has implications far beyond this one station.
Freedom of speech over the airwaves via radio,
broadcast television, and cable television
is presently quite limited
for the majority of Americans,
and they are not aware of this.
We have a problem of great magnitude
that is not being appropriately addressed.
The WBAI arrangement and structure
offered one model to be emulated.
As a listener-supported station
with a very diverse set of programs,
procedures, and guests,
WBAI represents the optimum use of radio
in the services of ordinary people.
When I attended the memorial service
of the late Samori Marksman,
who is a former WBAI station manager,
last year in the great hall
of St. John's Cathedral,
I saw at that funeral
a more diverse assembly
than I have seen anywhere in New York City.
Folks from all races, religions,
income levels, and political persuasions
were there.
There were intellectual snobs
who support programs broadcasting
esoteric operas,
mingling with radical grassroots
political activists.
Indeed, as a politician,
one immediate reaction I experienced
as I contemplated all of the diversity
and the solidarity
that was at that funeral,
I felt that some of the powerful people
in powerful places would see WBAI
as a threat and seek to destroy it.
WBAI represents radio freedom of speech
that does not make profit for anyone.
There are those who see profits being made
via WBAI and other Pacifica stations.
There are others in powerful places
who feel that only commercial stations
should exist,
or if there are public stations,
they should be indirectly controlled
by corporate grants
and benign corporate advertisements.
Some of the persons who have recently
been appointed to the Pacifica board
represent such powerful commercial interests.
In my opinion,
WBAI is an endangered station
as long as such business predators
are on the Pacifica board.
Persons far removed from the original ideals
and philosophy of the founders
of the Pacifica chain
are not likely to promote the original intent
of this very well-conceived system.
A basic question which must be tested
as soon as possible in the courts
is who owns a non-profit entity,
and who has a right to sell
a non-profit radio station?
Does the original charter,
or licensing by the FCC,
permit any group of trustees or directors
to treat Pacifica and WBAI
as if they were commercial entities?
While the Pacifica turmoil is raging,
I strongly urge WBAI
to seek to preserve its freedom
by exploring the necessary steps
to become independent of Pacifica.
As a non-profit entity,
WBAI should use the university structure
as a model.
It should elect a board of trustees
through a voting process
utilizing its contributors and supporters
as the voters.
The trustees should be responsible
for basic business operations,
while the producers and staff
should be given a role
similar to the faculty of a university.
Basic freedom similar to academic freedom
and tenure should be conferred
upon the long-standing producers
and long-term paid and unpaid staff participants.
We want to preserve WBAI in New York City.
And those are words from Congressman Major Owens
out of Brooklyn.
Interesting how this is now on the floor
of the House of Representatives.
It just keeps getting bigger.
This is no ordinary radio station, folks.
This is something that people care about,
and that's why I hope people of all ages,
all walks of life, all geographical areas,
I hope they all realize
the importance of this place.
I hope they all realize
the importance of this place
and why we need you.
We need you to remain part of the dialogue,
to remain part of the family.
And don't let any of this fall by the wayside.
You know, it's an issue
that is not going to go away.
It's something that we're not going to ignore.
I've made that pledge many, many times.
And I think it's going to get
more and more interesting.
We're going to learn more about
how things actually work.
And, you know, this ties into so much
of what we've been saying over the years
about the corruption of radio,
how things become more and more commercialized.
Well, it's hitting kind of close to home here,
and the concerns people have
are something that we should not be taking lightly.
This radio station exists as a forum
for many of us to speak out
and many listeners as well.
And that's why we're here.
We can't lose sight of that.
Now, Representative Owens said
some interesting things, too,
about low-power FM.
I don't know if you caught that.
About Haitian radio stations in New York
that are being shut down.
And I imagine a lot of people
don't even know about that.
There are these low-power stations
that have existed for years
in various parts of New York, Brooklyn.
And who's to say that those stations
don't have the right to exist?
That the only voice should go
to the big corporations
that run all the radio stations in town anyway.
The 50,000-watt stations,
they're the ones that have priority
over the 10-watt stations
serving a small community.
Basically, we're going into a period here
which is kind of unprecedented
because I don't think the sides
have ever been so established.
You know, the individual versus
the mighty corporation
that just wants to make profits
and doesn't really care
about the community that much.
If you listen to one radio station
in New York,
you can listen to one in Kentucky,
and they sound exactly the same
and there's no real difference.
Whereas, you listen to any
low-power station anyplace,
and they all sound different.
Yet, somehow these 10-watt,
100-watt stations,
they're considered a big threat
even if they're two frequencies over
from a big 50,000-watt station.
It's bizarre.
The kinds of things that are happening
right now are bizarre.
But anyway, what we have here
is we have a 50,000-watt
non-commercial station,
which is still the best station in town,
and I intend to do everything I can
to keep it that way.
Isaac, how about you?
You don't want to know
my comments on this.
All right.
Now, that's somehow reassuring, actually.
Well, the one quick one I can give you
is that I don't believe
this is a 50,000-watt station.
Yes, but you also don't believe
in lots of things
that are right in front of you as well.
All right, well, let me, all right.
If we would at least admit
that this is a station
that is as powerful
as any other station in the city.
Yes.
Okay.
It definitely puts out a heck of a signal.
Right.
We're as powerful as K-Rock.
We're as powerful as Hot 97.
Yes.
We're as powerful as...
Oh, we're right up there.
And we're right in the middle of the band, too.
That's right.
That's somewhat unprecedented.
All right.
More on Congress.
Congress just keeps coming at us this week.
This is the congressional show.
Now it's the turn of Representative Rick Boucher,
a Democrat from Virginia.
I don't know if you read his comments
in the last week or so.
He's actually starting to criticize the DMCA,
the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
This is from Virginia?
This is the state that passed UCEDA?
Yeah.
Okay.
Go ahead.
It's just kind of the theme this week
that surprises are never ending.
This should be interesting.
Go ahead.
You should always be paying attention
to what's going on around you
because you never know
where it's going to be coming from.
Here's what he said,
and this was a speech given
in front of the Consumer Electronics Association.
They were having a conference,
and he gave a keynote address entitled
Digital Download,
Public Access to Content in a Digital World.
Actually, I think that's what the conference was called,
but his speech had to deal with issues like that.
The time, in my opinion,
has come for the Congress
to reaffirm the fair use doctrine.
I wish we had an audio recording of this.
I'd rather play that, but I don't.
And to bolster specific fair use rights,
which are now at risk.
In 1998, responding to the concerns of copyright owners,
Congress passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
The announced purpose was to protect from piracy,
copyrighted material in an environment
which poses special concerns for copyright owners.
They made the point that with digital technology,
a copy of a copy of a copy
has the same clarity and perfection
as the original of the work.
They also made the point
that in the networked environment,
with the single click of a mouse,
thousands of those perfect copies
can be sent to people
throughout the nation and the world.
The DMCA is the result of the effort by Congress
to respond to those realities.
There are some today who believe
that the legislation went too far.
For example, it creates in Section 1201A
a new crime of circumventing
a technological protection measure
that guards access to a copyrighted work.
Under Section 1201,
the purpose of the circumvention is immaterial.
It is a crime to circumvent the password
or other gateway,
even for the purpose of exercising fair use rights.
There is no requirement that the circumvention
be for the purpose of infringing the copyrights.
Any act of circumvention
without the consent of the copyright owner
is made criminal under Section 1201.
Some now foresee a time
when virtually all new material
will be sent to libraries on CD-ROMs
with the material encrypted or guarded by passwords.
In exchange for a fee for each viewing,
the password may then be used,
and so it is predicted that under Section 1201,
what is available today on the library shelves for free
will be available on a pay-per-use basis only.
The student who wants even the most basic access to material
to write his term paper
will have to pay for each item that he uses.
Several of us made an effort in 1998
to limit the new crime under Section 1201
to circumvention for the purpose of infringement,
but in the momentum to enact the measure,
essentially unamended,
we were not able to have that change adopted.
With the growing realization
on the part of the education community
and supporters of libraries
of the threat to fair use rights under Section 1201,
which 1201 poses,
perhaps the time will soon come
for a congressional reexamination of this provision.
I hope so.
Perhaps the only conduct that should be declared criminal
is circumvention for the purpose of infringement.
Perhaps a more limited amendment
could be crafted to ensure
the continued exercise of fair use rights of libraries
and in scholastic settings,
notwithstanding the provisions of Section 1201.
And I think there are other challenges.
I'm concerned by the apparent attempt of some
in the content community
to seek to protect their copyright interest
in material contained in television programs
by insisting that the TV signal quality be degraded
or by insisting on the use of set-top-box technology,
which prohibits all copying.
The reasonable expectations of television viewers
to be able to make copies of programs
for time-shifting
and other historically accepted purposes
must be honored and must be fulfilled.
Now, he's kind of dancing around things here.
He's not really attacking it full force,
but I think you'll find that any congressman
will be kind of hesitant to go that far, you know,
in opposition to something that obviously
is very popular in the halls of Congress.
It was passed unanimously by voice vote.
Why are we electing these cowards
who refuse to voice their opinions?
Maybe they're the only ones running.
I don't know.
It seems like we just wind up electing
the same basic types of people
that vote for these kinds of things,
but it's nice to see at least somebody
start to talk against it,
and I think it's very important
that people show support.
In fact, one of our friends here, Chris,
sent in a letter to this guy.
By the way, you can find his web page,
www.house.gov slash Buscher, B-O-U-C-H-E-R.
And he wrote back.
In fact, he got a letter today.
Dear Chris,
Thank you for your recent communication
regarding my proposals to strengthen fair use rights.
I appreciate your kind words.
I am concerned by the erosion of fair use guarantees,
particularly the provisions
of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act,
which create a new crime
of circumventing a technological protection measure,
even if the purpose of the circumvention
is to exercise fair use rights.
Other measures are also necessary
to protect the rights of information consumers.
I will be introducing a broad fair use bill
in the near future,
and your expression of support for it
will be most welcome.
Now, that's interesting.
That's promising.
He will be introducing a bill.
We'll be watching this like a hawk.
And hopefully this will go someplace
and we can see the beginning of an end
to one of many nightmares that are surrounding us.
People in Virginia, remember this in November.
If he's up for re-election in November.
If he's up for re-election in November, yeah.
Otherwise, remember it now.
It doesn't really...
By definition, if he's in the House of Representatives...
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
I've got to turn your mic on.
Go ahead.
By definition, if he's in the House of Representatives,
he's up for re-election every two years.
Yeah, but is this the second year?
This is what?
2001?
No, next year.
All right, that was my point.
We'll remember it next year.
Now, here's something of a somewhat dramatic nature.
I got this in the mail today.
I was advised to pass it on.
And you know me.
Someone advised me to pass something on,
I pass it on.
You do it.
You know, about the make money fast thing
that I showed you last week.
It's working out, by the way.
I don't know.
I sent the dollar to the guy,
but I'm still waiting for people to send me dollars.
I'm getting $40,000 a day in single dollar bills
in my mailbox.
Really?
Yeah, it really works.
Well, I'm going to try the envelope stuffing thing next.
Anyway, this is basically titled
Vote No on Bill 602-P.
What is 602-P?
I'm going to tell you.
Oh, I'm sorry.
It doesn't exist.
All right.
You people...
You're out.
Yeah, you're out.
You're out.
First he says,
we're not a 50,000 watt radio station.
Then he says the bill doesn't exist.
What's going on here?
I didn't say that.
Yes, the warnings were true.
Federal Bill 602-P,
five cents per email.
It figures.
No more free email.
We knew this was coming.
Bill 602-P will permit the federal government
to charge a five cent charge.
Charge a five cent charge.
I guess that's what you do with charges.
On every delivered email,
please read the following carefully
if you intend to stay online
and continue using email.
The last few months have revealed
an alarming trend in the government
of the United States
attempting to quietly push through legislation
that will affect our use of the internet.
Under proposed legislation,
the U.S. Postal Service
will be attempting to bill email users
out of alternative postage fees.
Bill 602-P will permit the federal government
to charge a five cent surcharge
on every email delivered
by billing internet service providers at source.
The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP.
Washington, D.C. lawyer Richard Stepp
is working without pay
to prevent this legislation from becoming law.
The U.S. Postal Service is claiming lost revenue
due to the proliferation of email.
It's costing nearly $230 million in revenue per year.
You may have noticed the recent ad campaign.
There was nothing like a letter.
Since the average person receives
about 10 pieces of email per day in 1998,
the cost of the typical individual
would be an additional 50 cents a day
or over $180 per year
above and beyond the regular internet cost.
I get so much more mail than that.
Note that this would be money
paid directly to the U.S. Postal Service
for a service they do not even provide.
The whole point of the internet
is democracy and non-interference.
You are already paying an exorbitant price
for snail mail because of bureaucratic inefficiency.
It currently takes up to six days
for a letter to be delivered from coast to coast.
If the U.S. Postal Service
is allowed to tinker with email,
it will mark the end of the free internet
in the United States.
All right, well,
Congressional Representative Tony Schnell,
he's a Republican,
has even suggested
a $20 to $40 per month surcharge
on all internet service
above and beyond
the government's proposed email charges.
Note that most of the major newspapers
have ignored the story,
the only exception being the Washingtonian,
which called the idea of email surcharge
a useful concept whose time has come.
That's from the March 6, 1999 editorial.
Do not sit by and watch your freedom erode.
Or wait.
Send this email to everyone on your list
and tell all your friends
and relatives
to write their Congressional Representative
and say no to Bill 602P.
It will only take a few moments of your time
and could very well be instrumental
in killing a bill we do not want.
I like to think that I've done a great service tonight
by going on this alleged 50,000-watt radio station
and talking about this
and getting the word out.
Now...
I also disagree with Bill 602P.
All right, I'm glad to hear you take that...
For once, you're taking a stand against something,
and I'm glad to hear you do that.
Now, I have some additional information on this, actually.
I did some research.
I basically just looked for the Congressman Tony Schnell.
Instead of Congressman Tony Schnell's page, though,
I got Congressman John Sununu's page,
New Hampshire 1st District.
I don't know what's going on there.
It's basically the same initials.
Actually, no, it's not.
It's Tony Schnell.
John Sununu.
Sorry.
Well, I don't know.
Same initial.
The last name, anyway.
A rumor concerning proposed federal legislation
imposing a surcharge on e-mail messages
is being circulated on the Internet via e-mail.
The e-mail message, supposedly originating
from the Vienna, Virginia law firm
of Berger, Stepp, and Gorman,
claims that Congressman Tony Schnell
has introduced Bill 602P
to allow the federal government to impose
a five-cent surcharge on all e-mail messages
delivered over the Internet.
Funds collected from this surcharge,
according to the message,
are to be paid to the U.S. Postal Service
to make up for lost revenue
resulting from the increasing popularity of e-mail.
This rumor is completely false.
There is no movement afoot in Congress
to tax e-mail or the Internet,
nor does the USPS have any such designs.
In fact, the USPS has issued a letter
to all members of Congress
flatly denying the rumor.
Furthermore, there is no member of Congress
in either the House or Senate named Tony Schnell,
nor are bills from either chamber
named in this fashion.
Even the law firm mentioned in the message
is fictitious.
Don't you just love the Net?
You can start something like this.
I've been getting this letter now,
I think, for years.
For maybe like five years I've been getting it.
They update it.
They put in new years.
They put in new names,
new little factual bits of information.
But it just won't die.
It's like the Mrs. Fields cookie thing.
It just will not die.
Well, the reason it survived
is that you're one of the few people
who actually did the research.
602P is moving.
I typed in a name in a search engine
and looked at the first page.
That's all the research I did.
That's all the research you did.
It's simple enough.
I mean, you go to thomas.loc.gov
and you try to look up 602P,
not only will you not find 602P,
but the thing will yell at you
because 602P is a ridiculous number.
It is a ridiculous number.
It's either SR and a number
or HR and a number,
standing for Senate Resolution
or House Resolution.
Uh-huh.
Jim?
Better people than us have been caught by this.
In the last Clinton-Lazio debate,
somebody brought this up.
Better people than us?
Who?
Yeah, I doubt Hillary Clinton's better than anyone here.
That's true.
See, now, I didn't get all factional.
I didn't get all factional and pick somebody.
I decided to make it...
I was trying to be polite,
and I would like to point out
that I also mentioned in this
one of the Republicans I admire most
and the Democrat I hate the most.
Well, maybe second most.
So I was trying to be polite
to people that I have no contact with,
no ex to grind them up.
Trying to be noncommittal here.
I wasn't looking for a pardon, even.
Yeah.
I just said, you know,
I assume that a senator or senatorial candidate
is, in some way, maybe better spirited.
I know they wouldn't have taken umbrage
by saying people better than us,
but anyway.
Yeah, both of them fell for it
and came out against this opposing it.
They didn't even notice,
as Isaac pointed out, the mislabeling.
Yes.
Well, we're going to take phone calls.
212-209-2900 is our phone number,
and we'll be talking about this
among other things as well.
You read the latest about Napster?
Isn't it dead?
It's dying a long and agonizing death,
and I don't know how many people
it's going to drag down the drainpipe with it.
Napster says it's doing its best
to block copyright songs
that once flowed freely over its service
and that it has held discussions
with a Berkeley-based company
that could help Napster limit the swapping
of millions of songs.
GraceNote, a privately held company
that has been compiling an online database
of song and album titles since 1995,
could offer a comprehensive way
for Napster to track music
that major record labels want removed
from the song-sharing service.
So instead of providing a listing of directories
where you can find songs,
now Napster's turning into a tracker
that's going to track you down
if you trade something
that they don't want you to trade.
Yeah, okay.
Earlier in the month,
GraceNote president David Hyman
would not say whether any deals were in the works
with Napster or the recording industry.
Spelling variants of artists' names,
for instance, M Metallica or Italica May,
for instance,
have lessened the effectiveness
of Napster's week-old screening technology.
Nonetheless, Napster CEO Hank Barry
said Monday the company is following the law
as it tries to fend off
a copyright infringement suit
filed by the recording industry.
He described the effectiveness
of Napster's new screening technology
as a work in progress.
That's where GraceNote's technology
could prove useful.
Anyone who has loaded an audio CD
into a computer
and watched the track titles magically appear
has used GraceNote's CDDB system,
which automatically downloads the information
to internet-connected PCs.
You know, I've been using that.
I've been using that a lot lately.
It's really amazing,
but I'll get to that in a second.
The recording industry of America,
on behalf of its members,
submitted 135,000 file names to Napster Friday
to have them blocked
from the file-sharing service,
but as soon as the screening technology
started making a dent in online song trading,
crafty Napster users began misspelling band
and song titles to circumvent the block.
Crafty Napster users?
Crafty Napster users.
Crafty Napster users.
Or were they just very poor spellers?
Well, I guess they kind of mixed and matched now.
Other services popped up on the internet
with solutions to the screening barrier,
including several online pig Latin translators
that turned Britney Spears into
Itney Bray ear spay.
I don't know.
They just don't seem to get it.
You can't stop this.
As long as it's possible
to encode something into a computer,
people are going to copy it.
Computer files are designed to be copied.
It's not going to stop.
The faster speeds you get,
the better sound quality you attain.
People are going to do this.
We have to figure out a way
so that this works well
with artists who want their music passed around
and ways that the record companies
can live with it as well
because it's a reality.
You can cry about it all you want,
but it's like telling people
they have to pay every time
they hear a song on a radio,
and then running around
and turning off all the radios
you hear playing in public places,
which I think the RIA tries to do anyway,
but it's just not going to work.
Honestly, I think the record companies
are really overlooking
one hell of a business opportunity.
Yeah, absolutely.
They're taking the absolute wrong attitude,
and if they were to embrace it
and be able to craft it a little bit,
they could make a major amount of money with this
and keep a lot of people very happy.
I think the time has come
for a record company somewhere
to pop up that gets it.
The first one that's going to get it
is going to be the one who gets the windfall.
I mean, they're going to start it all,
and everyone else is going to be in their tracks.
Not just the windfall,
but also just respect,
respect from the consumers,
respect from the artists.
I think that should be,
if that's their number one concern,
the rest will follow.
But you see, the respect
is what brings the dollars.
Yeah, but if you think that way,
you're not going to get much respect.
People will see through that.
You might lose a lot of money.
You might go out of business.
You have to be willing to take that risk.
Well, that's not a very good business opportunity.
Maybe not, but it's what altruism is,
and that's what defines leaders.
But they're working to make money.
They're not in it to help people.
Let me rephrase.
What we need is somebody
who is not just in it to make money,
somebody who's in it to make things better.
And maybe if that person succeeds,
they'll make money.
Maybe they won't,
but the important thing is
their belief in making things better
has to be sincere.
That's what we need.
Well, why can't one do both,
make money and make things better?
It's quite possible,
but you can't go...
Historically, they've gone hand-in-hand.
Yeah.
Why is there some sudden change?
You can't go into it
with the money issue
being predominant on your mind,
because that will take over everything else.
Why not?
Because it's historically proven
to be the way things work.
Wow.
Look, if your major concern
is to make money,
that is what you're going to try and do,
is make money.
And you're going to compromise
on other issues.
You're going to compromise
on quality,
you're going to compromise
on integrity.
You can't compromise
on quality and integrity
and have a good product to make money.
If you manage to build
a better mousetrap,
people will buy it
because it is better,
and you will get the money.
You see, a mousetrap
is rather a simple device.
We're talking about
the future of recorded sound
on the Internet
and record companies.
You let me use a cliche.
You can't let me use a cliche.
Go ahead.
Use a cliche,
but we're running out of time.
We want to take some phone calls.
Let's take some phone calls.
Let me just quickly say,
though, I mentioned CDDB before,
which I find to be pretty interesting.
It's a database
of virtually all of the
most important data
in the world.
It's a database
of the most important
data in the world.
It's a database
of the most important
data in the world.
It's a database
of virtually all the CDs
out there.
What I've been doing,
I mentioned the cube
that I have.
Now I have an iMac as well.
Is it still upset
with you, by the way?
The cube?
No, no.
Actually, I was able
to get the CD out,
and I rebooted it a few times,
and the error
just went away.
You've both come
to an understanding.
That's good.
For now, for now.
But anyway, the point is,
I've been taking
my entire CD collection
and encoding it to MP3
using a program
known as iTunes,
which comes standard
with all cubes now.
Now what this program does,
it accesses CDDB,
grabs the information,
which most of the time
is right.
Sometimes it's wrong,
and you have to correct it.
But when it's right,
it's really cool
because it grabs
the information,
records all the individual songs
as individual MP3s,
stores them in a directory
under the album title,
which is stored
under a directory
under the artist's name.
So what you wind up having,
if you have a decent-sized
hard drive of, say,
25, 50 gigs,
you can take
a fairly large amount of CDs.
I have several hundred CDs.
This is taking a long time.
But when you're finished,
you have on your computer
a directory of all the music
that you own.
And you can access it,
and you can say,
you know, today I just want
to hear songs
that begin with the letter D.
And you can do that.
That's right there.
Or you can just play songs
that are a minute,
three seconds.
You can categorize it
any way you want.
It happens quickly.
It's instantaneous access.
What I had before,
it was really cool
when I bought it.
I bought a 400-CD changer.
400 CDs!
Imagine that!
Big round carousel thing?
Yeah.
It was incredible.
It was really,
it moved around in circles,
access things.
But, you know,
I couldn't find anything!
How do you find a CD
when it's with 400 others?
You know, I didn't use CDDB
to tell you what CD was where.
You know, they were all in there.
You had to remember
that it was like
CD number 352
was something.
Track number five, yeah.
And God forbid,
I needed a CD fast.
You know, I'd have to either
play each CD
one after the other
and find the music that way
or actually rifle through them by hand
and find it that way.
It was awful.
So, yeah,
physical access to the CD
was not an advantage in this case.
But, that said,
I still, in the future,
when I add to my library
of MP3s,
which I'll now be listening to
all the time,
I want the original CD.
Because, let's say
I hear something I really like
on my MP3 player
and I want to play something
on the radio.
I want to just grab that CD
and bring it in with me.
Let's say I want to hear it
in some other place,
like my car.
If I had a CD player in my car.
Or, you know,
another part of the house.
You know,
having the CD.
And also,
another very important thing,
when you just copy MP3s
from people,
you don't really know for sure
that it's right,
the information they give you.
You know,
they could say
something is one band
and it's actually another.
Oh, I've encountered that
on many occasions.
Yeah.
So, if you really are
into the music,
you'll want the original.
You'll want something
with liner notes
and something that's actually
there in your hands.
That actually made me
want to go out
and buy more music.
You see?
If you embrace
this technology
in record companies,
this is someone
who wants to go out
and buy more music
by these artists
that he's hearing.
I have no intention
of buying more music
because of the inflated
prices of CDs,
but if they were to come down
a little bit,
I would.
You're asking for a lot there,
but that's okay.
Yeah, I am.
Did you see the Apple commercial?
The Apple commercial?
There is an Apple commercial
where the fellow
walks into a music hall
and on stage
are a bunch of artists.
You've got George Clinton
and Barry White
and they're all up there
and he's mixing his own CD.
Track one's going to be
this guy
and track two.
Right.
You've got all the artists
saying,
at the very end
Apple puts up
its three words
and on the bottom
it says
Copyright 2001
Apple Computer Incorporated,
but if you look
real carefully
at the very end
it says,
Don't steal music.
Well, again,
there's a lot of interpretations
to what stealing music
really is.
Is it listening to the radio?
Is that stealing music?
There's all kinds of ways
of interpreting it.
A couple of things
that I thought of
while I was doing
all this encoding.
Number one,
you ever go to a diner?
There's places that serve food.
I always go to diners.
I love diners.
You notice they all have
the same kind of jukebox,
the one that sits at the table
and they all have
the little 45s
and songs from the 1960s.
Well, the CDs now.
Now, I have a computer
that I can carry around
with me right now
that has more than
12 days worth of music
on it just now
and I'm not even finished yet.
It's probably going to be
well over 20 days
by the time I finish this.
It's probably going to be
well over 20 days
by the time I'm finished
if not more.
Why cannot somebody
make a machine
that can be sold
to diners
and places like that
where you basically
have the choice
of tens of thousands
of songs?
I'm convinced
the only reason
why this hasn't happened
is greed.
It's because they want
the maximum return
for every single song
you play.
You can have an MP3
in a jukebox
and nobody's going to
know the difference
if it's a 45 or an MP3.
It's not that.
I don't think it's greed.
I think no one's
thought of it before.
I just thought of it.
Right after this show
I'm going down
to the copyright office
and I'm going to
copyright the idea too
so nobody can steal it.
That's a heck of an idea.
In fact, why don't you go now
in case somebody's
already doing that?
You want me to file
a patent for that?
Can you do that please?
Right now?
You have the forms.
Yeah, but you know
you've got 20 minutes
left here.
Yeah, okay.
So I'm going to be
done by nine.
The other thing
which maybe somebody
can help me with,
the one problem
I've come up with
when I'm playing
is there's a gap
between every MP3.
It's like a little
artificial gap
that they put in.
So if you're listening
to Dark Side of the Moon
or something
where everything
has to flow just right,
you get all these
choppy things in between.
So if anybody knows
a way where you can
play MP3s seamlessly
that'd be really cool to know.
Well, I think you have
to put the files
right up next to each other
because it's probably
just the player
trying to load
the next file.
It takes a little while.
It really doesn't though.
It really doesn't.
It's instant loading
because I tested that
and there's no delay
and I don't know why.
I guess probably because
if you put songs
that didn't go together
right next to each other
it would sound awful.
That would make sense.
If you're playing
like Beethoven's Ninth
and then you're playing
something by Tchaikovsky
you don't want to do a segue.
It doesn't work.
Okay.
Let's take some phone calls.
212-209-2900.
First time we've really
had a chance to...
Actually, you took calls
last week.
I took calls last week.
Yeah.
All right.
Let's see who's out there.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes.
How are you guys doing?
Pretty good.
I heard about this
thing called High Technologies
and it came out
with something
called Safe Audio
and it works in a way
that they manufacture
the CD
in which way
the songs cannot
be ripped from it.
Is that for what happens
if you try to rip it
and try to play it back
you'll hear some kind
of noise.
I don't know
if you guys heard of that?
I've heard of similar
type of wishful thinking
on the part
of various record companies
but it's like another
version of Macrovision
or something
that's doomed to failure.
This is basic
information theory, guys.
If you're going to
If you can listen to it, you manage to get the unencrypted stream or the unencumbered stream in any way, so you can listen to it, you can make a copy of it.
As soon as you have that bit stream, at any point in the sequence, you can make a copy of it.
I don't see how these people are continuing to try and make these bizarre schemes and sell them.
Like I said, it's all greed. It's all about maximizing their profit.
What they don't realize, they're very short-sighted, they don't realize the bigger picture, it's good to spread music around.
It's good to share listening experiences.
It results in more people being interested in, if you want to think of an artist as a product, the product that you're peddling.
I'm not seeing why you continue to bash the money aspect of this.
Because the money aspect is why we're in this situation to start with.
If this was truly about art, about musicians and artists that want to get their word out, we'd have a very rich society.
We'd be listening to all kinds of different things and sharing all kinds of different things.
We'd be beyond all this.
Instead, we're just mired in these courtroom dramas where we're talking about the record companies.
For God's sake, they made more money last year than ever before.
Their response to that is, well, we would have made even more if it wasn't for Napster and all these other people copying and stealing music.
My response to that is, if you hold these artists in such high regard, why are you helping them as they sign these contracts to the record companies?
If they're in it for the art and not for the money themselves, why are they signing these contracts, getting the limos, getting the stage tours?
I think you're answering your own question.
They're being bribed with riches, with limousines, with caviar and things like that.
Don't tell me you wouldn't do the exact same thing.
If someone walked in here right now with a limousine or one downstairs and offered you a contract to do something, you would do it.
I don't know. Maybe I would. Maybe I wouldn't.
You would.
But you seem to be faulting the companies for trying to make a buck, but these artists who are selling their work is acceptable?
I feel for them, but I think they're making a big mistake by signing on with record companies that do this kind of thing.
What you just said, selling their work. How can you sell your work? It's your work, for God's sake.
It's something you created. Think about it.
John Lennon, the song Come Together. I hear Come Together now.
What do I think of? I think of Nortel Networks.
What the hell is that?
Every time I hear the familiar beginning of Come Together, I think of a phone company.
That is what they have done. That's how they corrupt art.
Be careful.
Yoko can't do a damn thing about it because she's got no control over it. It's all owned by a company.
Be careful. In your utopian society there where you just give this stuff away for free, anyone can pick it up, which means any company can pick anything up too.
I think most people understand the concept of the artist having control over their work.
Someone not taking credit for something they did not do.
Why does Nortel ever consider the fact that we wrote this song that Lennon wrote?
They're not doing that.
I don't think it matters to them. Why would it?
People hear those chords. Every time you listen to The Beatles now, you go out and buy a phone system.
It's a nightmare.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Good evening.
A friend of mine gave me a Windows NT desktop, but he didn't take off the operating system.
I was wondering how I can go about taking off the Windows NT image.
Do you have explosives? No?
You have a way, Isaac?
I'm misunderstanding.
What do you want to put on the machine instead?
I wanted to put Windows 98 on it.
So you want to go from NT to Windows 98?
Oh, you just want to install Windows 98?
Yes.
You want to just basically format the drive and go about the installation procedures for Windows 98.
Is there anything on the drive you want to save?
No, I want to completely format the drive.
Oh, that's easy then.
That should be no problem at all.
Use the Windows 98 boot disk.
You basically just want to type format C column and go through it.
If you have any problems, call the people tomorrow night.
Personal Computer Show.
This hour.
Every Wednesday night from 8 to 9.
Another good bunch of folks here at the station that I like to listen to.
All right, let's go to another phone call.
Let's go over here.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Interesting.
Mr. Dalton is back, I see.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Your base, your base, base, base.
Oh, your base.
Don't belong to us.
Oh, your base, your base, base, base.
Oh, your base.
Don't belong to us.
All right, all right, all right.
You know, I am so sick of hearing that.
I am so sick of hearing that.
But what does it mean?
I know what it means.
What does it mean?
It means somebody should have taken an English course in there translating a Japanese video game many years ago.
All your base are belong to us.
Okay.
Evidently a chemistry student.
That's been up way too long.
Yeah.
I don't think so.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Speak up.
Hello.
Yes, go ahead.
I'm calling from Scotland.
Is that you, Emmanuel?
I'm just listening with quite a bit of delay on the radio because I'm listening over MP3.
First of all, your question about the songs that are going on with the gap in between them,
you can listen to them with no problem if you have Win Amplifier, the latest version.
Oh, really?
Win Amplifier, the latest version doesn't have a problem with that?
Yeah.
They can make them just about one after another.
Okay, great.
And the other thing you're talking about, the songs, how expensive the CDs are in the States.
Well, I hear in Britain they're like 1.6 times more expensive.
First, because of the conversion of the currencies.
And second, they just sell them on like 16 pounds and that's the flat rate.
And as far as I know, in the States, it's like $14.
And since I'm Bulgarian, I know the biggest band in Bulgaria, rock band, which are going on for like 30 years now.
I was listening to them going on about MP3 and one of the sites in Bulgaria, which are writing in Bulgarian,
so none of the American agencies can check them and say, you know, we can ban you.
Like they're banning Napster at the moment.
The guy was talking to these people from that...
Hello?
Right.
And they were asking them, what do you think about it?
Are you not afraid that they're copying this copyright stuff of yours and you're losing money?
He said, well, I've made plenty of money from my songs
because people, when they hear the music, they either like it or don't.
And if they like it, they go and buy the whole CD.
Yeah.
Because they want to see the artwork for it and so on.
And they come to our concerts and so on.
So we take the money from the kids.
Well, you know, that's the other thing.
That's the other thing.
If you're hearing music from Bulgaria, you're not likely to find that anywhere around here.
You're not likely to hear it on the radio.
You'll find it on the net.
You'll be interested in it.
You'll want to buy CDs or go to concerts.
And you'll just expand so much more than you would have ordinarily.
So it's a way of reaching so many more people.
As a matter of fact, I was listening the other day to WBAI again, another show.
And they were presenting this artist.
I think it was some sort of African guy presenting sort of African music, which I quite liked.
And I've never found anything about him on any commercial stations or anything like that.
So he gave his address on the radio station.
I wrote it down.
And I'm now about to send him a check, actually, to get a copy of his CD.
That's great.
Otherwise, he'll send me a CD, and I'll actually pay him directly.
And that's how he presents himself over the Internet and over the radio.
That's really amazing.
And he's getting his money with no companies to stay over his head.
I'm sure for all this money that they're going out of the album, these 16 pounds,
probably 14 pounds of them are going to the record company, not to the actual artist.
Oh, absolutely.
This guy is going to be able to keep all the profits from his work.
And he deserves them.
Practically, yeah.
So now you listen to WBAI in Scotland.
Yeah.
That's great.
I actually called it before.
I called it last year.
Yes, I remember.
I remember a Bulgarian in Scotland.
Talking over a mobile phone.
That's why I'm going.
I don't know whether you can hear it on the other side, but it's saying to me,
five minutes remaining, four minutes remaining.
Oh, you have one of those card things, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a prepaid phone.
Ah.
Well, I want to thank you for calling us, and keep listening to the station.
All right.
Keep on going, and good luck with all your fights.
I'm trying.
I'll probably find a way to support the station, even from here.
As far as I know, I can send you checks and so on.
So I'll think of something like that, and I'm sure that other people from
Europe will support you as well.
Okay.
Because tonight I was listening to the show before yours, and that really
made me a really good impression for all the things they were saying,
for the things that are covered up in the States.
I'm coming from a country like Bulgaria.
No, that was a communist country ten years ago, and it had censorship there.
And I can see things happening in the States which are not even happening
in the communist society.
Yeah.
It's troubling.
It's frightening.
And it's something that, as long as we have a radio station,
we should be talking about.
Thanks for calling.
Thanks for listening.
And please spread the word about WBAI, whatever country you're in.
I'm sure there are people in all different countries listening to us right now.
And that's really cool.
That's what The Net has done.
It's gotten us out there to so many other people.
On a normal show, we have about 200 people listening throughout the world
over The Net, which I find to be absolutely staggering.
And I hope that continues.
Let's take another phone call.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Speak up, please.
Hello.
Oh, yes.
Wow, I finally got on.
Yes.
My phone is about to die.
I just have a quick question.
Yes.
I'm a musician, a professional musician, classical music.
Is there any technology, or do you ever foresee a technology,
where you could feed digital information from a CD into a program
and have it print out music?
You mean actually compose a score based on the tones that you put into the computer?
Yes.
Is that something that you think would ever be possible?
Possible?
Yes.
Readily available?
I don't think you'd find something like that on a shelf at CompUSA, quite honestly.
I'm sure there are musicians out there that are working on something just like that, though.
So we'll probably get email about this.
And if anybody out there has information, oth2600.com, we'll talk about it next week.
Well, thank you.
I appreciate that.
I love your show.
I listen to it as much as I can.
And I'm a BAI member and supporter, and I hope you guys keep rocking and rolling.
Okay.
Thanks.
Thanks for calling.
Let's see if we can take a couple more phone calls.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello, Manuel.
How are you doing?
I have sad news for phone freaks everywhere.
Oh, wait a minute.
Let me think of what this could possibly be.
Let's see.
Redbox has no longer worked.
No, that's old news.
The last pay phone is taken out of the Mojave Desert.
No.
No.
No.
What could it be?
Well, MIR's crashing down.
It doesn't really affect phone freaks, though.
No.
Ham radio enthusiasts, yes.
All right.
What is it?
Radio Shack is discontinuing its memory pocket tone dialer.
Oh, yeah.
That's old news, too.
And they're slowly eliminating their parts department altogether.
That's kind of good news, I think.
That's good news?
No, I'm sorry.
I'm just being nasty.
They're maintaining their catalog, though, right?
You can still order stuff from them?
I believe so.
Not that you'd want to.
Go to, like, DigiKey or...
Why are they doing this?
Because it doesn't make money.
Uh-huh.
You see, Isaac?
You see?
Yeah.
Yeah, it doesn't make money, so you stop doing it.
Well, the point is, Radio Shack was never really good at it in the first place.
Yeah, but what...
So you go to people who are good at it, and you bring your dollars there.
The good news is...
Uh-huh.
Go ahead.
What's the good news?
Pocket tone dialers, they're clearing them out,
and they're about $5 a pop right now.
Yeah, and I hear people jumping in dumpsters, too,
looking for ones that they're throwing out as well.
Yeah.
Why?
You see, they don't even work anymore as Redboxes.
No, you can do other experiments with them.
Oh, forget the Redboxes.
Yeah, you can do other things with them.
If you can't remember 30 phone numbers, I mean, there's something very wrong with you.
Well...
Plus, most cell phones have that anyway.
...of Redboxing in New York with the AT&T long-distance operator, it still works.
You're kidding.
Nope.
Wow, that's...
At least in Brooklyn.
That's pretty surprising.
Oh, and Emmanuel?
Yes.
All your bases belong to us.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much.
But we're going to have to do just that as we are out of time.
I don't know.
We live in volatile times, you know?
Don't know what's going to happen next and what new technological development is going to open up
all kinds of other questions in court cases and things like that.
We'll have updates week after week as things progress.
Our appeal is moving towards court in April, I believe, next month for the DECSS case.
We'll have more updates on that as well as all the other things that are taking place.
So until next week, this is Emmanuel Goldstein for Isaac and all the others.
Have yourselves a good night.
Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep. Beep.
Radio Rebel, Lou Hill.
The Atlantica Radio Empire presents a tribute to radio rival, radio rebel, Lou Hill.
Radio can and should be used for significant...