Off The Hook - 2001-03-27

[00:10.400 --> 00:15.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: People think comic book is nothing, but comic book shoots right across young culture in America.
[00:15.740 --> 00:16.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: It shoots right to the kids.
[00:17.160 --> 00:21.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: It hits key kids who are decision makers in their groups.
[00:22.220 --> 00:24.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: Comic books are read by people who read.
[00:24.960 --> 00:27.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Comic books are commented on by people who think.
[00:27.920 --> 00:33.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're not for stupid people, and they're not for ignorant people, and they're not for non-leaders.
[00:33.580 --> 00:50.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: They are for everybody, but from my experience, they go directly to people who have things to say, who will have things to say in the future, and the fact that they're being done the way they are, and the fact that they're being done by people who really care about what's going on in America is,
[00:50.400 --> 00:51.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: I believe, is going to make a difference.
[00:52.480 --> 00:57.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it's not a small thing that's happening there, and I'm very happy to see it happen.
[00:57.160 --> 01:00.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: That was Neil Adams speaking on an early episode of Nuff Said.
[01:01.300 --> 01:07.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: To hear thought-provoking and entertaining discussion on the subject of comics, tune in every Tuesday night at 10 p.m.
[01:08.040 --> 01:13.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: for Nuff Said, here on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM.
[01:13.580 --> 01:17.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: And visit our website, nuffsaid.net, for our upcoming schedule of guests.
[01:18.520 --> 01:19.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: See you there.
[01:24.060 --> 01:26.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI in New York.
[01:26.740 --> 01:30.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: We are not for stupid people, so if you're stupid, please tune back later.
[01:32.970 --> 01:33.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just kidding.
[01:33.650 --> 01:34.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can stay.
[01:36.430 --> 01:38.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: The telephone keeps ringing.
[01:38.910 --> 01:41.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[01:41.930 --> 01:44.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: I cut myself while shaving.
[01:53.960 --> 01:55.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Expect for the worst.
[01:55.680 --> 01:57.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hope that's understood.
[01:57.960 --> 01:58.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: But maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe.
[02:51.810 --> 02:53.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
[02:53.970 --> 02:55.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is your captain speaking.
[02:55.610 --> 02:58.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Welcome aboard DC-10 flight from 1313.
[02:58.170 --> 03:04.390]  [SPEAKER_14]: We will be cruising at a height of 25,000 feet and airspeed of 600 miles per hour.
[03:05.030 --> 03:09.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: And phone will be provided on request for a varied program of in-flight music.
[03:09.690 --> 03:10.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have a good flight.
[03:13.930 --> 03:15.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And a very good evening to everybody.
[03:15.430 --> 03:16.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: The program is off the hook.
[03:16.390 --> 03:18.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you tonight.
[03:18.850 --> 03:20.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: As we are every Tuesday night.
[03:21.350 --> 03:22.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Evening, Isaac.
[03:22.170 --> 03:22.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: I see you made it too.
[03:23.150 --> 03:24.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Every Tuesday night.
[03:24.530 --> 03:24.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[03:25.790 --> 03:29.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we have John, we got Mike, we got all kinds of other people floating around.
[03:30.430 --> 03:33.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: And some interesting announcements to make in the world of hackerdom.
[03:34.730 --> 03:37.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the Internet and all kinds of things like that.
[03:37.150 --> 03:38.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: We will be taking your phone calls.
[03:38.470 --> 03:39.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: We will be reading your mail.
[03:39.590 --> 03:41.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, reading the mail that you send us.
[03:42.370 --> 03:43.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, let's just make that clear right now.
[03:45.230 --> 03:49.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Interesting announcement that we are now in the process.
[03:49.210 --> 03:54.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you go to the 2600 site, tickets are now available to the Hackers at Large 2001.
[03:54.990 --> 04:00.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that will be taking place this August in Holland.
[04:00.410 --> 04:04.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you have never been to a hacker event in Holland, I definitely suggest doing this.
[04:04.350 --> 04:06.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: It happens about every, what is it, every three years?
[04:07.050 --> 04:07.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Four years.
[04:07.490 --> 04:08.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Every four years.
[04:08.210 --> 04:08.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Wow.
[04:08.570 --> 04:09.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then you really should.
[04:10.290 --> 04:15.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: The first one was 1989, 1993, 1997 and now 2001.
[04:15.150 --> 04:21.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: It will take place on an open camp field on a college campus, August 10th, 11th and 12th.
[04:21.990 --> 04:27.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: And there will be access to a 100 megabit connection to the Internet as well as all kinds of panels.
[04:28.310 --> 04:33.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: And social experiments, people of all different cultures.
[04:35.470 --> 04:38.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's bound to be a learning experience for everybody.
[04:38.790 --> 04:46.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: And in case you're worried, in case you're panicking, the official language is going to be English.
[04:46.670 --> 04:47.010]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yay!
[05:25.880 --> 05:35.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we also have this exciting announcement, Freedom Down Time is going to be shown twice this weekend at the Icon Science Fiction Convention.
[05:35.520 --> 05:40.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's taking place at the State University of New York at Stony Brook, which is out there on Long Island.
[05:41.060 --> 05:42.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's well worth going to.
[05:42.620 --> 05:46.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're showing it twice, Friday at 9 p.m.
[05:47.280 --> 05:51.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: in the Javits Lecture Center, room 102, and Saturday at 6 p.m.
[05:51.980 --> 05:54.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: in Harriman Hall, room 137.
[05:56.520 --> 06:01.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: And Freedom Down Time is a documentary we made, which we finally finished early this year.
[06:02.740 --> 06:16.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's about the Free Kevin movement, about the stopping of Takedown or the attempted stopping of the film about Kevin Mitnick that portrayed him in a rather, I guess, libelous light is the best way to say it.
[06:17.280 --> 06:17.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good adjective.
[06:17.880 --> 06:20.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and the film still hasn't come out.
[06:20.260 --> 06:21.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Their film still hasn't come out.
[06:21.460 --> 06:25.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can't believe we got our film out before they got their film out in this country.
[06:25.720 --> 06:33.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Their film has been released in other countries like Romania, Bulgaria, France, other countries, where it hasn't been received all that well.
[06:33.780 --> 06:37.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, I've got a copy of it on Region 2 DVD.
[06:37.840 --> 06:39.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: How was it released across the seas?
[06:39.540 --> 06:40.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Was it called Takedown?
[06:40.580 --> 06:42.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was called Cybertrack in France.
[06:42.620 --> 06:46.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know what it was called in Bulgaria or Romania or those other places.
[06:46.060 --> 06:48.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sure all kinds of different names, you know.
[06:48.780 --> 06:51.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not quite familiar with the language, so I don't really know for sure.
[06:53.120 --> 07:01.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it did not meet with universal praise, or even isolated bits of praise, I don't think it met with.
[07:01.160 --> 07:02.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not even the French liked it.
[07:03.420 --> 07:04.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's pretty low.
[07:04.700 --> 07:08.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, I don't think you can accuse the French of liking a whole lot.
[07:08.440 --> 07:08.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.
[07:08.780 --> 07:10.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have discriminating taste.
[07:10.960 --> 07:13.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: And in this case, it's a good thing to have.
[07:14.700 --> 07:16.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: You want to show that film, that icon?
[07:16.700 --> 07:20.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, because there'd be riots that would break out.
[07:20.540 --> 07:23.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mostly, I guess, probably because they wouldn't allow that to happen.
[07:24.040 --> 07:25.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's a Region 2 DVD.
[07:25.560 --> 07:28.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, not just that, but it also is a film that hasn't been released in this country.
[07:30.040 --> 07:33.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Never mind that it probably won't be released in this country, at least not for the time being.
[07:33.380 --> 07:33.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't know.
[07:34.020 --> 07:34.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't know what's going to happen.
[07:35.020 --> 07:44.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: But if you want to see that film, the best way to do it is to, I guess, order it from an overseas DVD distributor.
[07:45.560 --> 07:47.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Amazon.fr is where I got the one for us.
[07:47.620 --> 07:52.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you also need to have a Region 2 player or a player that can be switched, which is a real pain.
[07:52.800 --> 07:55.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, unfortunately, that's the way things are.
[07:56.340 --> 08:01.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Apex 600-something or other is the one that tends to do that.
[08:01.520 --> 08:02.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: But there are other ones, too.
[08:02.280 --> 08:03.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: You just have to look around.
[08:04.000 --> 08:05.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it was at RegionFreeDVD.com.
[08:06.000 --> 08:06.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that the site?
[08:06.840 --> 08:07.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[08:07.100 --> 08:08.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you're on the Internet there.
[08:08.060 --> 08:08.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah.
[08:08.700 --> 08:09.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: I could check, couldn't you?
[08:10.280 --> 08:12.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just idling on IRC there.
[08:13.140 --> 08:14.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not on IRC.
[08:14.060 --> 08:14.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can't get in.
[08:14.600 --> 08:15.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, okay.
[08:17.180 --> 08:19.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Gee, I guess that's the ultimate rejection.
[08:19.360 --> 08:19.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh.
[08:20.100 --> 08:20.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Gosh, golly.
[08:20.860 --> 08:24.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: We filed our DECSS reply brief.
[08:24.440 --> 08:25.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if everyone has seen it.
[08:25.780 --> 08:26.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's up on our website.
[08:26.700 --> 08:27.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a real kick-ass document.
[08:28.520 --> 08:30.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Really well done, to the point.
[08:31.400 --> 08:34.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: We are in the middle of the appeal.
[08:34.600 --> 08:38.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: It will be heard on, I believe, May 1st is the date that the oral arguments have been set for it.
[08:38.820 --> 08:43.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York will tell you more as we know more.
[08:44.600 --> 08:45.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are they invited to attend?
[08:45.820 --> 08:48.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: If people are allowed in, then people will certainly be invited to attend.
[08:48.700 --> 08:50.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, there won't be invitations sent out.
[08:50.260 --> 08:50.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Obviously.
[08:50.660 --> 08:54.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: People will be able to come to the courthouse and see this.
[08:54.660 --> 08:58.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, again, thanks to everybody who helped on that.
[08:58.880 --> 09:03.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you have not seen the reply brief, it's definitely a good read.
[09:03.760 --> 09:06.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's up on www.2600.com.
[09:07.240 --> 09:09.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's in English, which I think is also very interesting.
[09:10.380 --> 09:11.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not legalese.
[09:11.560 --> 09:13.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: A lot of people can appreciate what we're trying to say here.
[09:14.560 --> 09:17.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that's a really positive thing.
[09:21.580 --> 09:22.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Isaac, you're still looking for the site?
[09:23.180 --> 09:26.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, regionfreedvd.com is some silly registry.
[09:26.900 --> 09:27.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[09:27.260 --> 09:28.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can have this domain.
[09:28.380 --> 09:29.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's not that.
[09:29.260 --> 09:30.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's one of those.
[09:30.220 --> 09:31.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sure somebody...
[09:31.300 --> 09:31.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's out there.
[09:32.040 --> 09:32.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[09:32.400 --> 09:34.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can probably track it down if you just look a little bit.
[09:34.620 --> 09:36.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or keep trying to get onto the IRC server.
[09:36.480 --> 09:36.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: What is it?
[09:36.980 --> 09:37.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: The IRC server is full?
[09:38.020 --> 09:38.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that the problem?
[09:38.680 --> 09:38.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[09:39.000 --> 09:42.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Your 2600.net IRC server is full.
[09:42.700 --> 09:42.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[09:42.900 --> 09:44.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hopefully, somebody's listening who can fix that.
[09:50.330 --> 09:53.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hear about the PBS show?
[09:53.630 --> 09:54.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Which PBS show?
[09:54.670 --> 09:55.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ah, which...
[09:55.310 --> 09:56.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, actually, it's not really a PBS show.
[09:56.950 --> 09:58.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a PBS Kids show.
[09:58.310 --> 10:03.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's apparently another network called PBS Kids that just is wall-to-wall Teletubbies and things like that.
[10:04.430 --> 10:07.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: But they're going to have a program on next year called Cyberchase.
[10:08.970 --> 10:09.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Cyberchase.
[10:09.490 --> 10:09.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Cyberchase.
[10:09.830 --> 10:10.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Cyberchase, yeah.
[10:11.190 --> 10:13.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Aimed at the little toddlers there so they know...
[10:13.790 --> 10:14.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Trying to get onto IRC.
[10:15.070 --> 10:15.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: What is that?
[10:15.650 --> 10:18.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, here's the story as was posted on our site.
[10:19.650 --> 10:26.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: A new animated TV show called Cyberchase is scheduled to start airing next year on PBS Kids geared towards eight to 11-year-olds.
[10:27.390 --> 10:30.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, that's, you know, that's going to be interesting in and of itself.
[10:32.290 --> 10:33.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, listen to this little part.
[10:34.710 --> 10:36.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alright, this is from their press release.
[10:36.670 --> 10:38.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Cyberchase features three Earth Kids.
[10:39.070 --> 10:41.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Jackie, Matt, and Inez.
[10:41.830 --> 10:42.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know, how do you pronounce that?
[10:42.870 --> 10:43.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Inez?
[10:43.410 --> 10:43.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Inez.
[10:45.450 --> 10:45.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Inez.
[10:45.990 --> 10:46.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Inez.
[10:46.550 --> 10:47.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Inez, okay.
[10:47.750 --> 10:49.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who are summoned into cyberspace.
[10:49.750 --> 10:50.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Their mission?
[10:51.010 --> 10:53.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: To defeat the evil fiend Hacker.
[10:54.830 --> 10:55.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's his name?
[10:55.750 --> 10:57.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who is on a mad quest to take over the cyber world.
[10:58.070 --> 11:01.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, they don't mince any words here.
[11:01.090 --> 11:01.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: They got right to it.
[11:01.770 --> 11:02.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hacker is the enemy.
[11:03.670 --> 11:05.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not Mr. Hacker, Sir Hacker.
[11:05.350 --> 11:06.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, just Hacker.
[11:06.330 --> 11:15.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: And eight to 11-year-olds all over the world are going to have their first introduction of, you know, the hacker world as this evil hacker person or creature, I don't know what.
[11:15.150 --> 11:16.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: They say Earth Kids, so who knows?
[11:16.450 --> 11:17.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Probably an alien.
[11:17.290 --> 11:18.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, who are they going to cast as Hacker?
[11:18.630 --> 11:19.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[11:19.690 --> 11:31.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if the casting call has gone out yet, but I think it's something we should be a little concerned about, and since there is a year before this thing goes on in the air, maybe PBS should get a little bit of feedback on that, you know?
[11:31.850 --> 11:32.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do you think, Isaac?
[11:32.610 --> 11:34.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, it's not really a good idea, is it?
[11:35.270 --> 11:37.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm still wondering who they're going to cast as Hacker.
[11:37.370 --> 11:38.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, there's a lot of potential there.
[11:39.010 --> 11:40.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: You could run the whole gamut.
[11:40.770 --> 11:45.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: You could have some kind of gangly nerd type guy or some evil, overbearing...
[11:45.070 --> 11:47.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but we haven't even determined it's going to be a human being yet.
[11:47.850 --> 11:48.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's true.
[11:48.670 --> 11:50.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: They do specify Earth Kids.
[11:50.370 --> 11:50.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[11:50.890 --> 11:52.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: We found the DVD from there.
[11:52.370 --> 11:52.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, what's the site?
[11:52.990 --> 11:54.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's CodeFreeDVD.
[11:54.230 --> 11:54.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ah, I'm sorry.
[11:55.150 --> 11:56.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: CodeFreeDVD.com, right?
[11:56.230 --> 11:56.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[11:57.730 --> 11:59.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's some feedback already on the story we just read.
[12:01.530 --> 12:07.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sure, it demonizes the name Hacker, but I always admire the Decepticons, Cobra, and all the other bad guys in cartoons.
[12:07.390 --> 12:10.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, but here's the thing to this person who wrote in.
[12:11.450 --> 12:13.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Decepticons aren't real people.
[12:13.930 --> 12:16.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: You see, they're not out there getting offended by this.
[12:16.810 --> 12:20.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, there aren't people with the name Cobra that don't mean to scare people.
[12:20.210 --> 12:20.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: What about the snakes?
[12:21.690 --> 12:24.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, well, you know, there are hackers.
[12:24.390 --> 12:30.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are real-life hackers, and to demonize them in this way is different than demonizing, you know, evil cartoon characters.
[12:30.310 --> 12:32.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: We don't want to become evil cartoon characters.
[12:32.610 --> 12:34.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's kind of not what it's all about.
[12:34.490 --> 12:36.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: You don't have to deal with being an evil cartoon character.
[12:36.470 --> 12:37.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, that'd be kind of neat.
[12:37.190 --> 12:39.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because then I could always come back in the next frame.
[12:40.990 --> 12:41.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I suppose.
[12:41.730 --> 12:43.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's one way of looking at it.
[12:44.030 --> 12:47.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's just one thing on the horizon that we have to look forward to.
[12:48.070 --> 12:49.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: I wonder how they draw us, though.
[12:51.450 --> 12:53.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're missing the whole point here.
[12:53.430 --> 12:55.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're missing the entire point.
[12:56.250 --> 12:56.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[12:57.130 --> 12:58.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Isaac, what's up with you and the Australians?
[12:58.850 --> 13:05.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: I get a call today from some Australian guy who wants all your docs, who wants all your information, your home phone number, your address.
[13:05.510 --> 13:06.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who wants the whole nine yards?
[13:06.410 --> 13:10.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Apparently, he's already on a flight over here to knock some sense into you.
[13:10.710 --> 13:11.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's this all about?
[13:12.790 --> 13:13.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Someone had...
[13:13.270 --> 13:15.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just lucky I had the information, too.
[13:15.290 --> 13:16.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, oh, thank you.
[13:16.510 --> 13:17.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm so relieved.
[13:17.770 --> 13:20.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm not about to start withholding information from people who ask.
[13:21.950 --> 13:22.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't ask me to do that.
[13:23.110 --> 13:23.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't ask me to do this.
[13:23.690 --> 13:24.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to ask for your information.
[13:24.890 --> 13:25.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're going to get it.
[13:25.690 --> 13:26.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, well...
[13:26.570 --> 13:27.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Free and open society here.
[13:27.850 --> 13:34.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: There was a post to our communal address for the show, OTH at 2600.com.
[13:34.250 --> 13:34.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[13:34.350 --> 13:35.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: We encourage people to post that.
[13:35.510 --> 13:37.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: OTH at 2600.com will get to us.
[13:37.930 --> 13:42.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I replied to one of these things, and I presented the opposite of a particular argument.
[13:42.950 --> 14:00.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Evidently, this person was making us aware of the possibility that certain non-competition laws or some sort of weird competitive practice laws in Australia would possibly trash this entire idea of region coding for DVDs.
[14:00.410 --> 14:07.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: There is controversy over in Australia about that because they're not in the same boat as we are as far as releasing films.
[14:08.090 --> 14:09.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Most films don't come out of Australia.
[14:09.490 --> 14:10.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Most films come out of the United States.
[14:10.690 --> 14:12.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: And by putting them where?
[14:12.310 --> 14:13.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Region code 4?
[14:13.910 --> 14:14.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ah, yes.
[14:14.670 --> 14:15.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Australia is 4.
[14:15.630 --> 14:19.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: And Mexico and South America, for some reason, are in the same code, same region code.
[14:19.610 --> 14:25.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, notoriously, they get films at different times, way different times.
[14:25.210 --> 14:26.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's very hard to find things.
[14:26.510 --> 14:32.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah, having region-free DVDs or DVD players over there is much more advantageous and also much more common.
[14:32.830 --> 14:38.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I believe it's gotten attention way up in the higher-ups in Australia that feel this is unfair.
[14:39.510 --> 14:39.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[14:40.170 --> 14:40.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, anyway...
[14:40.450 --> 14:41.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the background.
[14:41.150 --> 14:42.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's the background.
[14:42.390 --> 14:52.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so, anyway, this fellow Grant, who runs the AusMac.net website, which is a wonderful resource for you Macintosh guys out there, sent the email making us aware of what was going on.
[14:52.170 --> 14:58.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I replied with a, you know, an interesting question is, well, where does the government come into this?
[14:58.310 --> 15:04.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, isn't it the consumer's responsibility to know what kind of playback hardware he has at home?
[15:05.170 --> 15:15.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you wouldn't have someone go out, buy a CD, or rather buy a DVD, come home, put it on his Sony Discman, and then return to the store and rant and rave about how it didn't work.
[15:15.970 --> 15:17.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you get to...
[15:17.930 --> 15:23.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Does the consumer bear any of this burden of knowing what can and cannot work for his home playback?
[15:23.330 --> 15:24.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, the consumer should know what they're buying.
[15:24.610 --> 15:32.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: By the same token, if the consumer cannot buy something that he feels he has a legitimate right to, how is he going to rectify that situation?
[15:32.690 --> 15:37.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: His feeling of having a legitimate right is inconsequential to the fact of whether or not he does.
[15:37.910 --> 15:38.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Inconsequential, eh?
[15:38.670 --> 15:44.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: So you think, everybody that wants to see a DVD out of their region should just be dismissed?
[15:44.470 --> 15:44.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[15:44.810 --> 15:48.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to buy the hardware that is going to manage to allow you to look at the region.
[15:48.870 --> 15:48.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[15:48.950 --> 15:52.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: When we have seven DVD players stacked in our apartments...
[15:52.870 --> 15:53.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: It becomes ridiculous.
[15:53.470 --> 15:55.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: ...for each region, it becomes a bit of a problem.
[15:55.130 --> 15:55.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Who do you complain to?
[15:56.070 --> 16:08.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I imagine that an intelligent manufacturer of DVD playback hardware would, say, for instance, sell a region-free player for maybe 150% of the cost of a single-region player.
[16:08.510 --> 16:10.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: And lose their license to make a DVD player.
[16:10.910 --> 16:11.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's great.
[16:11.470 --> 16:16.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: All these treaties and, you know, world bodies and things will come down very hard on that person.
[16:16.170 --> 16:18.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Remember, the DVD apex player here is no longer sold.
[16:18.810 --> 16:20.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, this is the point I'm trying to make.
[16:20.490 --> 16:27.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why is the government regulation here viewed as a good thing as opposed to an impediment to this sort of growth?
[16:27.350 --> 16:29.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, right now, the government regulation is what caused this.
[16:30.010 --> 16:31.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: So government regulation is the only thing that can stop it.
[16:31.990 --> 16:34.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: So more government regulation is going to help the situation.
[16:34.030 --> 16:37.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, how about we wipe away the government regulation right now that has made this crazy system?
[16:37.870 --> 16:38.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: I like that idea.
[16:38.730 --> 16:41.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: And make regulations doesn't mean adding on to them.
[16:41.210 --> 16:44.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: It means, in some cases, removing them.
[16:44.150 --> 16:44.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[16:44.550 --> 16:46.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that sounds like a good idea to me.
[16:46.210 --> 16:49.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: You see, the government has to serve a purpose at some point, besides bombing Iraq once a year.
[16:49.830 --> 16:52.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, we have to do something constructive with it.
[16:52.290 --> 16:53.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's our government.
[16:53.050 --> 16:55.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why must you do something constructive with it?
[16:55.170 --> 16:56.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's there.
[16:56.130 --> 16:56.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's it there for?
[16:57.110 --> 16:57.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Decoration?
[16:57.590 --> 16:58.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Come on, we have to do something.
[16:58.710 --> 17:00.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's there to defend our borders.
[17:00.330 --> 17:01.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's there to...
[17:01.190 --> 17:01.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Against who?
[17:01.830 --> 17:02.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Canada?
[17:02.230 --> 17:03.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Come on, give me a break here.
[17:04.250 --> 17:04.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Give me a break.
[17:05.070 --> 17:07.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: We pay all this money into government.
[17:07.210 --> 17:08.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: We should make it work for us.
[17:08.490 --> 17:09.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: It should not be the responsibility...
[17:10.010 --> 17:10.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Don't underestimate Cuba.
[17:10.890 --> 17:13.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: It should not be the responsibility of government I forgot about Cuba.
[17:13.490 --> 17:15.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: To regulate the entertainment industry.
[17:15.690 --> 17:16.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: I see no where.
[17:16.710 --> 17:17.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Within the entertainment industry.
[17:17.790 --> 17:23.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're talking about consumer electronics and how, okay, the consumer electronics industry, are being crippled into what they...
[17:23.530 --> 17:27.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: pretty soon, when digital TV gets on the air, you won't be allowed to tape certain programs.
[17:28.110 --> 17:28.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: At all.
[17:28.870 --> 17:30.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: It will be the same thing as DVD region coding.
[17:31.050 --> 17:37.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: So you mean that the government is going beyond their scope and determining that you can't view this particular thing or make this particular.
[17:37.930 --> 17:41.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: organized, Ask for a clarification of your position, Isaac.
[17:41.230 --> 17:45.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Are you saying that government has no right to make any restrictions on anybody?
[17:45.630 --> 17:50.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: However, corporations are allowed to restrict individuals who do business with them as much as they wish?
[17:51.090 --> 17:51.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sure.
[17:53.110 --> 18:01.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's something of a, not necessarily an oversimplification, but it definitely moves a great deal of the strength of my argument.
[18:02.370 --> 18:04.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: The idea is that... All right, go ahead.
[18:04.650 --> 18:08.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Who can stop a corporation from doing the kinds of things that they're doing right now?
[18:08.590 --> 18:12.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's customers by not purchasing their products or their services.
[18:13.310 --> 18:13.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: I see.
[18:13.990 --> 18:16.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: And how do you make the customers speak in one voice?
[18:16.630 --> 18:17.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: How do you reach them all?
[18:17.990 --> 18:21.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: How do you get them... I mean, it sounds nice in theory.
[18:21.950 --> 18:24.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then perhaps there isn't a problem with the organization.
[18:25.590 --> 18:29.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: So if enough people don't speak out and do something about it, it's not a problem.
[18:30.090 --> 18:31.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the basic idea, yeah.
[18:32.370 --> 18:38.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: You individually do not have to deal with the MPAA or deal with this whole DVD region coding thing.
[18:38.870 --> 18:40.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: You just simply don't buy DVD...
[18:40.650 --> 18:47.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've elected people to the Congress and the state legislature and all those people who I hope will take care of some of these issues for me.
[18:47.970 --> 18:48.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, very good.
[18:48.090 --> 18:56.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: But they are restricted by a document called the United States Constitution, wherein it does not provide that the federal government has control over the consumer electronics industry.
[18:56.430 --> 18:58.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: If we change the Constitution, we need to be fine with this.
[18:58.750 --> 19:00.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, only the corporations have control over the federal government.
[19:00.510 --> 19:02.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, we can go on for hours about this.
[19:02.150 --> 19:02.150]  Exactly.
[19:02.450 --> 19:12.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: But regardless, to wrap it up, this is coming down to an issue between myself and a bunch of Aussies, where, you know, they happen to be...
[19:12.330 --> 19:16.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: They have this heritage of the British government and the fact that, you know, the BBC and the whole...
[19:16.710 --> 19:17.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're ahead of us.
[19:17.290 --> 19:17.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Don't forget that.
[19:17.330 --> 19:19.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think they're way behind us, and it's a very dangerous...
[19:19.550 --> 19:20.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: You need to look at a globe.
[19:20.690 --> 19:21.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're one day ahead.
[19:21.730 --> 19:23.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: You cannot fight people who are ahead of you.
[19:23.590 --> 19:24.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: That way they know what's going to happen.
[19:24.850 --> 19:26.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: They've seen the future, man!
[19:26.350 --> 19:27.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's right, so...
[19:27.250 --> 19:29.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: So wait, so he's coming here.
[19:30.570 --> 19:32.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't know if someone's coming here to beat me up.
[19:32.490 --> 19:32.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure.
[19:33.430 --> 19:35.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: The international dateline kind of messed me up, too.
[19:35.590 --> 19:36.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's either...
[19:36.370 --> 19:40.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: So he's either here, and he already beat Isaac up, or he's coming up.
[19:40.990 --> 19:42.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Tonight, I think it's midnight tomorrow.
[19:42.590 --> 19:43.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Midnight tomorrow, there?
[19:43.490 --> 19:45.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Which is a good time to meet your doom, I guess.
[19:46.030 --> 19:52.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, regardless, for any Australians who are currently listening, I promise to beat Isaac with a rubber chicken, and I will do that.
[19:52.270 --> 19:52.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh.
[19:53.470 --> 19:55.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's read some listener mail.
[19:55.170 --> 19:56.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, moving back to reality.
[19:56.430 --> 19:58.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: And give out the phone number, 212-209-2900.
[19:58.790 --> 20:00.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll be taking phone calls in just a moment.
[20:01.830 --> 20:03.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, guys, I had a question about keyloggers.
[20:04.590 --> 20:08.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is there a way of detecting them to see if your boss or someone else is tracking your movements on the PC?
[20:09.310 --> 20:10.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: What do you think, Isaac?
[20:10.870 --> 20:11.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Keyloggers?
[20:11.730 --> 20:12.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Keyloggers?
[20:12.230 --> 20:14.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: People don't realize how unsafe things are.
[20:14.610 --> 20:19.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it depends on if it's a software keylogger or a hardware keylogger.
[20:19.110 --> 20:22.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hardware keyloggers are much more difficult to detect.
[20:22.550 --> 20:24.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like what, are they built into the computer?
[20:24.150 --> 20:25.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like built into the keyboard.
[20:25.410 --> 20:26.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Like, unless you...
[20:26.530 --> 20:27.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: How do you get one of those?
[20:27.710 --> 20:28.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: You make one.
[20:29.390 --> 20:30.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Does anyone sell one?
[20:30.910 --> 20:32.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: I imagine they do, yeah.
[20:32.810 --> 20:34.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: I imagine there's a couple companies that sell them now.
[20:35.230 --> 20:36.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: But yeah, I would...
[20:39.070 --> 20:51.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: But software ones, they tend to be a little more easier to discover if you have a debugger or if you have, you know, any kind of thing that can dump your system processes to your screen and they can see.
[20:51.490 --> 21:05.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: A lot of people don't realize that when they're at work, even when they're at school, it's very possible that their machine, if it's not their machine, if it's something that they're using in a different environment, that machine could have all kinds of things on it that will monitor everything you type.
[21:05.250 --> 21:08.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it doesn't matter if you use S/KEY or SSH or any of that.
[21:08.510 --> 21:11.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, S/KEY is safe because you can't use the password a second time.
[21:11.590 --> 21:13.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's true, but...
[21:13.270 --> 21:18.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, that's how you should be going about logging in from, say, Kinkos or a place like Easy Everything.
[21:18.370 --> 21:22.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: But many people, many people go on past that and log into other things after...
[21:22.270 --> 21:23.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, that's a bad idea.
[21:23.770 --> 21:29.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: And there's all kinds of little keystrokes that they type that are revealing, so it kind of negates the whole purpose of S/KEY.
[21:31.070 --> 21:36.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: The best thing to do is have a laptop and plug it into a network and use and create a description from the start.
[21:36.290 --> 21:36.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: There you go.
[21:36.450 --> 21:37.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: That way, you know...
[21:37.390 --> 21:37.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Absolutely.
[21:37.850 --> 21:40.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have a trusted host with which to engage in your network.
[21:40.630 --> 21:42.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't let the laptop out of your sight.
[21:42.990 --> 21:43.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[21:43.550 --> 21:43.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Another letter.
[21:44.030 --> 21:48.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was browsing through the Windblows 98 help files and I came across something I found quite interesting.
[21:48.950 --> 21:54.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you type in license, then scroll down and click on, Are there different types of software piracy?
[21:54.990 --> 21:57.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is one type of piracy less damaging than any other?
[21:57.850 --> 22:00.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: They break down software piracy into different sections.
[22:00.830 --> 22:05.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Under the section entitled Counterfeiting, you will find a paragraph describing packaging techniques.
[22:05.910 --> 22:07.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: The following is an excerpt.
[22:07.730 --> 22:17.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: It, meaning labeling, can also be unsophisticated, consisting of inferior or handwritten labels with disks folded into a plastic bag and sold on street corners.
[22:19.370 --> 22:27.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, while I laughed my ass off, as you are now doing, at first wondering what neighborhood these people grew up in, there are some serious connotations in this statement.
[22:27.110 --> 22:33.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, not only is MicroSucks trying to paint all hackers as bad, they're equating us with crack dealers, prostitutes, etc.
[22:35.250 --> 22:36.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Don't forget child pornographers.
[22:37.010 --> 22:38.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: They hang out on street corners?
[22:38.650 --> 22:39.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I don't know.
[22:39.530 --> 22:40.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: They probably hang out all over the place.
[22:41.210 --> 22:42.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: Plastic bags on the street?
[22:42.470 --> 22:42.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, yeah.
[22:43.250 --> 22:46.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: When's the last time someone came up to you while you were driving in a car?
[22:46.450 --> 22:52.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, you can walk down the street in Russia, and they sell software on the street like that.
[22:52.350 --> 22:53.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you know that for sure?
[22:53.310 --> 22:54.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, have you ever been to Russia?
[22:54.310 --> 22:56.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you know that they actually peddle software on the street?
[22:56.350 --> 22:59.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know it for sure, because I saw it on ABC News Nightline.
[23:00.130 --> 23:00.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, it must be true.
[23:01.010 --> 23:01.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: Disney News.
[23:01.690 --> 23:02.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Refer to it by its proper name.
[23:03.030 --> 23:03.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: Disney News.
[23:04.710 --> 23:16.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: This person here is writing to us saying that they admire our statement on the website concerning one of the DECSS programs that have been bandied about as of late.
[23:16.470 --> 23:17.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: One of the many, yes.
[23:17.350 --> 23:22.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: The seven-line Pearls script, the DECSS haiku, the prime number.
[23:22.810 --> 23:27.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: And at one point we said, we will, however, tell you the address without providing a link.
[23:28.010 --> 23:34.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's the only way we can tell you the address, since we're not allowed to provide a link because of Judge Kaplan's order back in August.
[23:34.150 --> 23:36.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: How can you click on a link over the radio, though?
[23:36.850 --> 23:39.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, no, this is in response to our webpage.
[23:39.590 --> 23:39.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh.
[23:41.250 --> 23:44.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, yeah, that's the latest as far as that goes.
[23:44.110 --> 23:44.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's a complaint.
[23:45.570 --> 23:47.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Verizon is my cell phone company.
[23:47.350 --> 23:49.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: They recently bought a company called AirTouch.
[23:51.050 --> 23:54.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: And since then, whenever I place a directory assistance call, they cannot connect me.
[23:54.870 --> 23:57.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know how when you call information from cell phones?
[23:57.530 --> 23:57.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[23:57.930 --> 24:00.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Lots of times they say, at no additional charge, we'll connect you.
[24:00.550 --> 24:02.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's because they've already charged you a dollar for the call to information.
[24:02.830 --> 24:09.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: That becomes a lot of fun when you're trying to contact the local fire department, and they're like, for no additional charge, we can connect you for amusing.
[24:09.610 --> 24:14.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you for using Sprint PCS, and you just want to reach through the phone and strangle the person and just say, get me the friggin' fire department.
[24:14.510 --> 24:16.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you call the fire department often from the cell phone?
[24:16.630 --> 24:19.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've done it a few times as I'm driving.
[24:19.470 --> 24:20.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just having to notice fires going by.
[24:21.050 --> 24:21.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[24:21.470 --> 24:21.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[24:21.950 --> 24:22.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the median.
[24:23.410 --> 24:23.750]  Okay.
[24:24.730 --> 24:25.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's great.
[24:26.470 --> 24:27.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: They never give you the right number, either.
[24:28.330 --> 24:28.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[24:29.750 --> 24:34.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I once had to call 911, actually, and I seem to have been connected to the right 911.
[24:34.790 --> 24:36.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: They seem to know what I was talking about.
[24:36.370 --> 24:37.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: They know where you are.
[24:37.150 --> 24:40.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or at least they were doing a good job pretending if they did.
[24:40.230 --> 24:42.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're making you feel better, which is half the battle.
[24:42.270 --> 24:48.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: But anyway, this person is really upset because I cannot hold a phone with one hand and drive with the other hand and then write down a phone number at the same time.
[24:49.170 --> 24:49.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good.
[24:49.410 --> 24:51.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: You shouldn't be talking on the phone when you're driving.
[24:51.870 --> 24:52.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's true.
[24:52.550 --> 24:54.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't be doing that in Suffolk County when you come out to Icon, either.
[24:54.850 --> 24:58.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you think that we should pass a law saying that they shouldn't be driving on cell phones?
[24:58.330 --> 24:58.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[24:59.330 --> 25:00.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Honestly, no.
[25:00.270 --> 25:00.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: No?
[25:00.590 --> 25:00.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[25:00.690 --> 25:07.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think those people who are unable to manage to juggle like that, when they slam into a brick wall, they're doing the rest of us a great favor.
[25:07.450 --> 25:09.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: What happens when they slam into me?
[25:09.330 --> 25:09.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[25:10.010 --> 25:13.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, don't be walking on the streets for a few months while they all go kill themselves.
[25:13.970 --> 25:18.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: See, now, here's my feeling on that.
[25:18.510 --> 25:21.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think that I'm perfectly capable of talking on the phone at the same time.
[25:21.890 --> 25:24.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've talked to everybody in this room, probably, on the phone while I'm driving.
[25:26.070 --> 25:27.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not in Suffolk County, though.
[25:27.390 --> 25:28.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, in Suffolk County.
[25:28.550 --> 25:30.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they passed the law only in January.
[25:31.050 --> 25:31.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, so before the law.
[25:31.890 --> 25:32.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[25:32.210 --> 25:34.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: You, of course, are abiding by the regulations.
[25:34.650 --> 25:37.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the point is, I had no trouble, and if I do have trouble, I know what to do.
[25:37.110 --> 25:38.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: I drop the phone and deal with the driving part.
[25:38.990 --> 25:43.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, some people have trouble, like, you know, eating a sandwich and driving.
[25:43.750 --> 25:45.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some people have trouble talking and driving.
[25:45.430 --> 25:46.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some people have trouble driving.
[25:46.670 --> 25:47.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Have trouble driving, right.
[25:47.850 --> 25:48.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.
[25:48.530 --> 25:51.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Everyone has their own level of competence.
[25:51.390 --> 25:57.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I think it's unfair to tell people that this is the level that you must abide by, because some people can't handle it.
[25:57.850 --> 25:58.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know...
[25:58.550 --> 25:59.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: I agree.
[25:59.230 --> 26:00.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some people can handle it.
[26:00.310 --> 26:02.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Which brings us back to our consumer electronics issue.
[26:02.930 --> 26:07.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you can't manage to figure out what region your DVD playback part was.
[26:07.030 --> 26:08.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't see how that's related even slightly.
[26:08.430 --> 26:09.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sure it is.
[26:09.130 --> 26:10.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's not return to this issue.
[26:10.690 --> 26:13.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it puts the responsibility on the consumer, or in this case, the cell phone user.
[26:14.030 --> 26:17.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hold the remote control in one hand, and then...
[26:17.730 --> 26:18.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry.
[26:20.430 --> 26:21.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's just move on.
[26:21.510 --> 26:21.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[26:23.010 --> 26:30.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: I work for a TV station in Orlando, and I wanted to report back on the scanner frequencies that we've been talking about over the years, I guess.
[26:31.010 --> 26:33.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: I tried them out for a presidential visit by George W.
[26:34.170 --> 26:36.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bush in Orlando recently.
[26:36.510 --> 26:38.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was back in a couple weeks ago, I guess.
[26:39.130 --> 26:42.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Out of all the frequencies, I only found one that actually had unscrambled audio.
[26:42.230 --> 26:44.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Many of the frequencies carry data or scrambled voice transmissions.
[26:44.970 --> 26:48.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm curious to see if more can be listened to closer to the white horse.
[26:49.410 --> 26:50.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'd certainly like to know.
[26:50.830 --> 26:54.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the only way to do that is to listen, find out, see what's out there.
[26:54.070 --> 27:00.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, there's a few ways that they manage to keep, you know, eavesdroppers off of those sorts of frequencies.
[27:00.990 --> 27:06.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have trunking systems, which basically jump around on the frequency.
[27:06.870 --> 27:10.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have a number of channels, and each transmission is assigned a particular channel.
[27:10.570 --> 27:14.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: And over the course of the actual transmission, it bounces channel to channel.
[27:15.110 --> 27:18.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you have a lot of software around that takes care of that.
[27:18.530 --> 27:23.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: You also have the encrypted messages, which are still using DES as far as I know.
[27:23.890 --> 27:28.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Those might be the ones that you hear as the static or the digital sort of information.
[27:29.170 --> 27:33.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a number of ways that they can obscure or secure the communication.
[27:33.650 --> 27:36.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: So don't expect to just hear someone start running around.
[27:36.770 --> 27:47.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but the most common way right now that they have of restricting the signals is to make it illegal to listen to it or to watch it on your scanner, you know, to watch the POCSAG channel.
[27:48.010 --> 27:48.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is passing a law?
[27:49.330 --> 27:50.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what they've done.
[27:50.570 --> 27:55.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, this is something we've been fighting since, what was it, 86 as this started?
[27:55.370 --> 27:59.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: And this should show you the futility of simply passing a law to try and change a technical...
[27:59.230 --> 28:02.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, you're just going to keep going back and saying it's completely unrelated.
[28:03.070 --> 28:13.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're talking about crazy laws here that restrict what people can do in the freedom of their own home, as opposed to laws that protect consumers against being ripped off and taken advantage of.
[28:13.910 --> 28:16.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, that's the kind of thing governments should be there for.
[28:16.590 --> 28:18.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: You don't see the difference between those two things.
[28:18.470 --> 28:18.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I'm not.
[28:18.910 --> 28:21.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, well, hopefully the Australians can help you with that.
[28:21.570 --> 28:21.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[28:21.790 --> 28:23.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think I can provide any more.
[28:23.890 --> 28:40.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, if you want to go have a look at rhodeandschwarz.com, R-H-O-D-E dash S-C-H-W-A-R-Z dot com, and have a look at their frequency hopping monitoring radios.
[28:40.390 --> 28:40.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[28:40.790 --> 28:45.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you want to listen to interesting frequency hopping trunking radios.
[28:45.010 --> 28:46.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: The technology is out there.
[28:46.530 --> 28:46.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, it is.
[28:46.910 --> 28:51.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: We just have to have the courage to use it and to play with it and experiment and tell people about it.
[28:51.550 --> 29:00.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't be intimidated by these idiots that tell you not to do things because they don't want you doing them, and that's all that they expect you to listen to.
[29:02.330 --> 29:02.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[29:03.010 --> 29:03.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you have the hook?
[29:03.770 --> 29:07.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm still waiting for my 17 VHS tapes offered as a premium for WBI membership.
[29:07.190 --> 29:07.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: When will they go out?
[29:08.050 --> 29:08.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who handles these?
[29:08.690 --> 29:09.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[29:09.790 --> 29:13.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've been getting a lot of letters like this, and it's time I addressed the issue.
[29:14.470 --> 29:19.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's the way we have been doing it over the years, decades even almost.
[29:20.330 --> 29:27.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Basically, we offer the premiums, we donate them to the radio station, and then we send them out from 2600.
[29:27.430 --> 29:28.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: That has changed.
[29:28.410 --> 29:30.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: We no longer have access to that information.
[29:31.510 --> 29:46.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: So what we have to do now is, we have to bring all this stuff into the radio station, and then they have to ship it out, and it's a pain in the ass, let me tell you that right now, because 17 videotapes for every person that's subscribed.
[29:47.090 --> 29:47.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a few hand trucks.
[29:47.690 --> 29:49.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to have to rent a truck to do this.
[29:50.250 --> 29:50.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Centralized control.
[29:51.290 --> 29:52.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the policy.
[29:52.710 --> 29:58.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's going to take a little while to get those to everybody, because we have to arrange all of that.
[29:59.110 --> 30:03.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: And also, we're still waiting for the people back in the October fundraiser.
[30:03.390 --> 30:06.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: We haven't forgotten about them, the CDs, the Jellebe Offer CDs.
[30:06.790 --> 30:14.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Same policies in effect, which has confused us a bit, but hopefully we can get that out in the next couple of weeks.
[30:14.390 --> 30:17.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: So sorry to everybody for the delays, but we will be doing that.
[30:17.850 --> 30:19.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you have not paid your pledge, please do so.
[30:20.170 --> 30:25.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Remember the matching fund to the listener lawsuit that we pledged to file, to pledge to fulfill ourselves.
[30:25.730 --> 30:28.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's dependent on you fulfilling your end of the pledge.
[30:28.290 --> 30:32.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: So don't let these little inconveniences let you lose faith.
[30:33.850 --> 30:35.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Strength wins in the end.
[30:36.530 --> 30:36.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[30:37.770 --> 30:38.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: What else?
[30:41.530 --> 30:45.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, if you have not paid your pledge, that would be a reason you don't receive your premium.
[30:45.470 --> 30:46.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah.
[30:46.730 --> 30:47.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: It works that way, too.
[30:50.370 --> 30:51.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: So many letters here.
[30:51.290 --> 30:52.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: I want to take phone calls, too.
[30:53.070 --> 30:56.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: This person wants us to bring shirts, hats, and all kinds of other things to HAL2001.
[30:57.070 --> 30:57.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll try to do that.
[30:57.950 --> 31:00.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a pain, too, shipping things over there.
[31:00.250 --> 31:01.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, shipping things to WBAI is a pain.
[31:01.630 --> 31:03.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Shipping things to Holland is even more of a pain.
[31:04.030 --> 31:06.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they wanted to know if we were going to show freedom downtime there.
[31:06.130 --> 31:07.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: We certainly are going to try.
[31:07.670 --> 31:09.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: They say that we have to do it in PAL format.
[31:11.010 --> 31:12.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's going to make it a pain, too.
[31:12.550 --> 31:13.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's with all these formats?
[31:14.330 --> 31:17.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I think we should pass a law saying that everyone in...
[31:17.570 --> 31:18.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going over there.
[31:18.470 --> 31:19.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to hit you.
[31:19.610 --> 31:19.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to...
[31:19.810 --> 31:20.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can't say that, can I?
[31:21.590 --> 31:22.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no violence.
[31:22.690 --> 31:23.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Would you like a rubber chicken?
[31:23.750 --> 31:25.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're not going to tolerate violence.
[31:25.350 --> 31:25.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[31:28.230 --> 31:29.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-209-2900.
[31:29.590 --> 31:33.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's a letter from a Verizon employee.
[31:33.250 --> 31:35.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm an employee of Verizon in New York.
[31:36.090 --> 31:43.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have decided that they will no longer allow employees to donate blood on company time as they have for the past 25 years.
[31:43.490 --> 31:44.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Instead, they'll demand the blood.
[31:47.690 --> 31:48.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's pretty funny.
[31:48.790 --> 31:49.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sorry.
[31:49.070 --> 31:54.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is just another way that they show that they do not care about the general public.
[31:54.030 --> 32:03.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: If a customer places an order to move their telephone service and no work is needed inside the home, then that job is closed out as complete on the due date that they give you.
[32:03.930 --> 32:06.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: They do not call or test the line to see if it works.
[32:07.310 --> 32:12.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if it doesn't, then you have to call repair and wait for the service to be hooked up by a repair person.
[32:12.850 --> 32:16.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you call repair and the problem is inside the house and you are not home, we leave a card.
[32:16.650 --> 32:20.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you do not call back to repair in 24 hours, your trouble ticket is closed.
[32:20.750 --> 32:22.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's closed out as completed.
[32:23.250 --> 32:25.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: The time was five days.
[32:25.670 --> 32:26.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now it is one day instead.
[32:26.810 --> 32:28.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Verizon really sucks.
[32:29.290 --> 32:30.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is from a Verizon employee.
[32:30.650 --> 32:33.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: His name I will not give out because, uh...
[32:33.750 --> 32:34.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's interesting.
[32:34.550 --> 32:44.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I've had my share of fair share of interesting Verizon encounters and I find that calling them back again and again and again on their 800 number...
[32:44.970 --> 32:45.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[32:45.610 --> 32:53.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: They have an 800 number in Virginia, which then links into the vast Verizon Death Star empire.
[32:54.630 --> 33:00.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: So if you need to call Verizon toll-free, just go look up their Virginian number.
[33:00.550 --> 33:02.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: and, uh...
[33:02.170 --> 33:02.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hmm.
[33:03.750 --> 33:07.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: This person writes in to say he liked the cover of the last issue.
[33:07.270 --> 33:08.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Excellent work, guys.
[33:08.490 --> 33:10.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going out to get it as soon as it turns 12 p.m.
[33:10.730 --> 33:12.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Stupid blue law here in Tennessee.
[33:13.830 --> 33:14.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: What?
[33:14.310 --> 33:16.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're not allowed to buy a magazine before noon in Tennessee?
[33:17.030 --> 33:17.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is this something new?
[33:18.130 --> 33:21.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, Sunday stores in some states can't open before noon.
[33:21.630 --> 33:22.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Any store?
[33:22.370 --> 33:23.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[33:23.410 --> 33:24.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: What about 7-Eleven?
[33:24.370 --> 33:25.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have to open at 7 at least.
[33:26.990 --> 33:27.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, uh...
[33:27.870 --> 33:28.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'd like to know more about that.
[33:28.950 --> 33:32.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Blue laws will prevent you from buying $2,600 before noon or anything.
[33:33.730 --> 33:34.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[33:34.830 --> 33:36.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: What about that law, Isaac?
[33:36.110 --> 33:36.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: You want to repeal that one?
[33:37.390 --> 33:38.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sounds good to me.
[33:38.270 --> 33:39.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: You seem remarkably silent about this.
[33:39.450 --> 33:40.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sounds good to me.
[33:40.250 --> 33:40.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[33:41.250 --> 33:43.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Isaac comes out in favor of repealing blue laws.
[33:44.810 --> 33:45.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Write it up.
[33:45.430 --> 33:46.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Post it on the net.
[33:47.030 --> 33:49.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, here's one last letter and then we're going to take some phone calls.
[33:49.870 --> 33:51.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: 212-209-2900.
[33:51.190 --> 33:53.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: By the way, we did have a problem with the phones last week.
[33:53.330 --> 33:54.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was told that...
[33:54.150 --> 33:54.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: We did, okay.
[33:54.670 --> 33:57.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: ...audio was very low and people could not hear me.
[33:57.730 --> 34:00.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if it's been fixed because I only found out about that recently.
[34:01.350 --> 34:03.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: So we'll be extra patient tonight.
[34:03.250 --> 34:06.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: But please give us a call at 212-209-2900.
[34:06.410 --> 34:08.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's two open lines so go for them.
[34:09.350 --> 34:10.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, first, I love your show.
[34:10.590 --> 34:14.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: I usually listen to it delayed in Portland, Oregon because I'm at work when it goes out over the air live.
[34:14.710 --> 34:15.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's wrong with listening to it at work?
[34:16.550 --> 34:17.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, really?
[34:18.150 --> 34:26.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, I work for a company called RuleSpace that designs engines that filtering companies buy or hopefully buy to classify data.
[34:26.770 --> 34:31.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: First, RuleSpace doesn't make engines for BESS, iGear, or WebSense.
[34:31.830 --> 34:39.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: The way our system classifies websites is kind of complicated and since I just wire phones and configure servers and stuff like that, I don't know the full scope of the machine.
[34:40.310 --> 34:44.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have what they call a content recognition system that evaluates websites.
[34:45.230 --> 34:56.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: The content comes from Alexa WebCache, something like 8 terabytes of data and the engines are trained by content graders which are actual humans.
[34:56.930 --> 34:58.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are actual humans out there called content graders.
[34:59.350 --> 35:01.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, say you have a set of 1,000 websites.
[35:01.790 --> 35:03.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: The graders grade all of them.
[35:03.930 --> 35:10.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Then they are fed into the computers where they tell the system what the first 900 are and then test it on the last 100.
[35:10.570 --> 35:13.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, they feed them in millions and millions at a time to test accuracy.
[35:13.710 --> 35:19.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have a content definition expert to determine the classification on a gray area website.
[35:19.830 --> 35:23.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Penthouse.com might, for instance, be adult material but not necessarily pornography.
[35:24.590 --> 35:30.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: If the computer comes across a site that is not known, it uses context clues to determine content.
[35:30.390 --> 35:37.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: A good example would be a website not known off of www.jugs.com which is a porno site.
[35:37.450 --> 35:39.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess I just gave that out over the air.
[35:39.850 --> 35:41.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: I wonder what laws I've broken by doing that.
[35:45.090 --> 35:50.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or maybe using context clues like if the words breast cancer were used that might not be a porn site.
[35:51.310 --> 35:57.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Lately, they've been working on an ontology and I think ontology is a study of the meaning of words.
[35:57.790 --> 35:58.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's what this person says.
[35:58.630 --> 35:58.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is that right?
[35:59.070 --> 35:59.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[35:59.190 --> 35:59.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, good.
[36:01.110 --> 36:06.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Supercomputer BigDuel P3 733 Dell PowerEdge Linux cluster, basically.
[36:06.750 --> 36:07.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, that's a supercomputer.
[36:07.890 --> 36:08.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
[36:09.350 --> 36:09.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry.
[36:11.910 --> 36:13.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the airwaves, Isaac.
[36:14.290 --> 36:17.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, called the Ontobot that will classify pages on the fly.
[36:18.110 --> 36:19.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Last I saw, it was only 45% accurate.
[36:20.170 --> 36:22.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: It took over 15 minutes to identify content for one webpage.
[36:23.650 --> 36:24.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it's far from done.
[36:25.250 --> 36:25.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ontobot.
[36:25.770 --> 36:27.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the magic of artificial intelligence.
[36:27.790 --> 36:28.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: It takes some time.
[36:28.850 --> 36:28.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[36:29.410 --> 36:30.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are manual engines.
[36:30.490 --> 36:35.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: My favorite is criminal skills, which includes hacking, which are graded by hand without the assistance of computers.
[36:35.870 --> 36:40.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Generally, this is only done when there aren't that many websites that deal with this sort of thing.
[36:40.830 --> 36:47.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if the company using an engine submits an override request, it goes back to the content graders who look at it and determine if it was right or not.
[36:48.370 --> 36:53.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Engines like the Porn Engine, Gambling Engine, and Tobacco Drugs Engine don't really have master lists.
[36:53.450 --> 36:57.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: They have a previous record of what a website was classified as, but it's largely dynamic.
[36:57.390 --> 37:05.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think this is different than WebSense because it's solely master list slash keyboard related, keyword based, and really has no audit system as far as I know.
[37:06.570 --> 37:11.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's a very informative letter from this person who works at that company.
[37:11.890 --> 37:11.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's sweet.
[37:11.970 --> 37:12.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess when his name is given out.
[37:13.170 --> 37:13.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: What is it?
[37:13.650 --> 37:15.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: 15 minutes per web page or website?
[37:16.550 --> 37:21.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was the initial thing before they...
[37:21.070 --> 37:21.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[37:21.510 --> 37:21.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[37:21.990 --> 37:22.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's good.
[37:23.170 --> 37:23.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[37:23.630 --> 37:27.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's an average of what, two million new web pages on the web every day?
[37:27.830 --> 37:37.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I think it's just kind of scary to think of people sitting around analyzing and categorizing everything and their word is final and determines what people see and what people don't see.
[37:37.770 --> 37:38.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who are these people?
[37:38.750 --> 37:39.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I...
[37:39.950 --> 37:44.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: What gives them the right to say this is a criminal skills website, this is not, you know?
[37:44.950 --> 37:49.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you disagree, what is your recourse if you disagree with that?
[37:50.270 --> 37:51.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you have any at all?
[37:51.910 --> 38:00.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it's really annoying when you find out that your website is being blocked by various other bits of software that people are running without much of a choice and there's nothing you can do about it.
[38:00.870 --> 38:01.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, I don't know.
[38:01.550 --> 38:05.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Let me look up the answer to that in my rule book.
[38:05.770 --> 38:06.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[38:06.570 --> 38:06.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're in the air.
[38:07.310 --> 38:07.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hi.
[38:07.630 --> 38:08.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good evening, gentlemen.
[38:09.830 --> 38:18.690]  [SPEAKER_13]: I heard you all talking about Verizon and I thought I would share with you one of their latest schemes.
[38:19.030 --> 38:19.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[38:20.850 --> 38:35.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: They had a mailing that they sent to customers offering up an interesting package where you are where you are given all these calling features for a flat fee.
[38:36.030 --> 38:49.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: As it turned out in the mailing, one of the things included was free unlimited local calls, free unlimited directory assistance.
[38:49.290 --> 38:51.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's local calls, not regional calls.
[38:51.190 --> 38:52.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a very important distinction.
[38:52.250 --> 38:53.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, yes, it is.
[38:53.590 --> 38:55.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: But that's not where the trick is.
[38:56.790 --> 39:03.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: And also, you get to choose about four from among eight calling features.
[39:03.650 --> 39:05.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, you have to choose between...
[39:05.770 --> 39:08.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not like you can just pick one or two little services.
[39:08.350 --> 39:09.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to get about four or five of them.
[39:10.310 --> 39:11.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm trying to think where the trick is.
[39:11.890 --> 39:20.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, actually, the trick is the unlimited local call is not free.
[39:21.130 --> 39:22.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not free?
[39:22.310 --> 39:23.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, it's not free.
[39:23.750 --> 39:27.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: I signed up with them when I saw my first bill and called and screamed.
[39:29.150 --> 39:42.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, part of the argument was the first month's bill would be a little higher because part of the whole offering was offering the fact too that your bill...
[39:42.910 --> 39:44.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: It should be less expensive.
[39:45.210 --> 39:49.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, the argument was your first month's bill should be...
[39:49.730 --> 39:54.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: would be a little higher because I guess various costs going in but your next month it shouldn't be.
[39:55.030 --> 39:57.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, sometimes they bill you a month in advance so that might account for it.
[39:58.050 --> 40:00.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the local part, that's what I'm interested in.
[40:00.470 --> 40:01.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: How is it not free?
[40:01.570 --> 40:03.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's not unlimited local calls.
[40:04.190 --> 40:17.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: You actually pay 10.2 cents per minute and I guess if they wanted to get technical they could say that they did not say free unlimited local calls even though it said unlimited local calls.
[40:17.970 --> 40:19.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, let me ask a question here.
[40:19.170 --> 40:22.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, I think this might be a local versus regional issue.
[40:22.570 --> 40:28.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you sure that if you call a number inside your house they will charge you for that number?
[40:28.170 --> 40:29.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: 10.2 cents.
[40:30.050 --> 40:31.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because that's pretty local.
[40:31.750 --> 40:35.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: I thought that it was unlimited for a certain very narrow region.
[40:35.630 --> 40:37.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, it's not free.
[40:37.030 --> 40:42.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, the point is the use of that word unlimited is misleading.
[40:44.570 --> 40:46.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's definitely not free.
[40:46.450 --> 40:54.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, AT&T had something similar to that whereas they had unlimited regional but then they defined unlimited as being something like $80 worth.
[40:55.190 --> 40:55.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[40:55.650 --> 40:58.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: After that it was not you know they would charge you again.
[40:58.910 --> 41:17.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Also Verizon have a few other packages based on your calling pattern where you could get you know virus unlimited including regional and local but it costs a little more.
[41:17.290 --> 41:25.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'll give you a hint right now a hint as to how to get unlimited regional for a pretty low cost.
[41:25.650 --> 41:52.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you have a phone line that you have not used very much such as you know a fax line that maybe just received calls or a data line that you just made local calls on if you've had that line for a few years like I think five years is a safe bet but maybe you can get away with less if you call up the phone company Verizon and say that you want to have the unlimited regional plan what they do is they
[41:52.150 --> 42:01.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: look at your average phone bill for regional calls meaning everything in And 516, 631, 914, 917, 212, that whole region.
[42:02.030 --> 42:06.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they give you a price based on your average cost.
[42:06.790 --> 42:14.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: So if you have barely used your phone line to make regional calls in the last five years, you're going to get a very low price, probably something like about $12.
[42:15.630 --> 42:21.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: If, however, you give them a phone number that you use all the time, they'll give you something closer to $100.
[42:22.510 --> 42:34.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, the idea, obviously, is if you use a line like that, you're going to have to change your calling habits and use that line to make all your regional calls from this point on, but your calls will never cost more than the set amount that they give you.
[42:35.570 --> 42:37.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a plan that actually works.
[42:37.470 --> 42:39.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if they mean for it to work that way.
[42:39.290 --> 42:45.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: You have to sort of use your brain a little bit to get it to work just right, make sure you give them a phone line that you have not used all that much.
[42:45.770 --> 42:51.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if this is conspiracy that I'm engaging in right now, or racketeering, or what do you think, Isaac?
[42:52.230 --> 42:54.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sending some serious RICO indictments here.
[42:54.770 --> 43:01.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is basically giving out information that can be used in a way that the phone company wouldn't want you to use.
[43:02.530 --> 43:04.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you're using their rules.
[43:04.810 --> 43:05.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's not illegal, is it?
[43:05.130 --> 43:05.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[43:05.950 --> 43:06.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think so.
[43:06.930 --> 43:10.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: If the company uses this information about you, that's perfectly fine.
[43:11.390 --> 43:12.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: So we should be able to do it.
[43:13.090 --> 43:20.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they get away with all kinds of things, like charging you for not having your name listed, or keeping extra money when you put a quarter in.
[43:20.850 --> 43:23.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you make a local phone call, this still works to this day.
[43:23.310 --> 43:27.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: A local phone call, you know, to a payphone next to another payphone.
[43:28.050 --> 43:31.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: After five minutes, it asks you for a nickel, right?
[43:31.390 --> 43:31.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[43:31.850 --> 43:33.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you put in a quarter, it only counts it as a nickel.
[43:34.790 --> 43:34.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[43:35.130 --> 43:36.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Only local calls that works on.
[43:36.510 --> 43:37.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Only local calls.
[43:37.210 --> 43:38.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Long distance, it knows the difference.
[43:39.010 --> 43:44.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you can't tell me that the phone company can't differentiate the difference between a quarter and a nickel locally.
[43:44.190 --> 43:45.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Obviously, they can.
[43:45.110 --> 43:46.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: They just choose not to.
[43:46.130 --> 43:46.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, if they don't want to.
[43:46.270 --> 43:48.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: So where does all that extra money go?
[43:48.770 --> 43:52.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, we had the Touch-Tone fee, which still exists in some places.
[43:52.310 --> 43:52.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: To the other 20 minutes.
[43:52.330 --> 43:53.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: To the other 25 minutes.
[43:53.410 --> 43:53.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: It does not.
[43:54.290 --> 43:54.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sure it does.
[43:55.590 --> 43:57.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: It asks you for another nickel after 10 minutes?
[43:57.770 --> 44:01.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: It asks you for another nickel after however many minutes the nickel is for.
[44:01.210 --> 44:02.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it's two to three minutes.
[44:02.790 --> 44:03.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's not right.
[44:03.570 --> 44:04.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, it's not right.
[44:04.330 --> 44:05.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's my point.
[44:05.730 --> 44:06.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a big rip-off.
[44:07.070 --> 44:09.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And there's many rip-offs like that in the phone company.
[44:09.930 --> 44:10.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: So why don't you put in a nickel?
[44:11.470 --> 44:12.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: But just thinking, these...
[44:12.530 --> 44:16.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, maybe if all the customers united together and just didn't use the payphones, the problem would go away.
[44:16.710 --> 44:17.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I think you're right.
[44:18.390 --> 44:21.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: In that calling plan, there's unlimited long-distance, too.
[44:22.210 --> 44:24.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, there's no such thing as unlimited long-distance.
[44:24.230 --> 44:24.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[44:24.510 --> 44:28.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can make unlimited long-distance calls in the calling plan that the guy just mentioned.
[44:29.130 --> 44:29.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[44:29.670 --> 44:29.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[44:30.150 --> 44:31.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not free unlimited.
[44:31.690 --> 44:35.370]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have the freedom to make unlimited long-distance calls.
[44:35.610 --> 44:35.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, boy.
[44:36.210 --> 44:36.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening.
[44:36.670 --> 44:37.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[44:37.850 --> 44:38.350]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, hi.
[44:38.510 --> 44:57.570]  [SPEAKER_17]: I was listening to you guys last week, and somebody called up And had a huge problem with their computer, and they were getting advised that they may... Well, not really advised, but one of the people on the air was getting the hint that maybe there was something wrong with the registry.
[44:57.990 --> 45:11.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I would severely hate to see anybody deal with that problem, because I've dealt with the registry myself in using a Windows NT version 4.0.
[45:11.430 --> 45:15.130]  [SPEAKER_17]: And it's a very complicated issue.
[45:15.490 --> 45:26.170]  [SPEAKER_17]: Whenever you have to go into the registry, and I would suggest that people just, you know, back up whatever they can and basically reinstall the OS.
[45:27.030 --> 45:28.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, unless they're in the mood for a challenge.
[45:28.850 --> 45:30.350]  [SPEAKER_17]: A huge challenge, my friend.
[45:30.470 --> 45:30.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[45:31.030 --> 45:40.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: All I was trying to do was upgrade from a uniprocessor to a multiprocessor, and I found that it was not even worth the trouble in time.
[45:41.070 --> 45:49.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, different people have different tolerances for these things, but I think I'm more in line with the call, or I'd probably just want to back up and reinstall and get the thing over with.
[45:50.730 --> 45:51.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks for calling.
[45:51.690 --> 46:00.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: And people with more questions like that, or issues like that, feel free to call the Personal Computer Show, which is on every Wednesday night at 8 o'clock, and they deal with issues more along those lines.
[46:01.310 --> 46:02.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, let's take another phone call.
[46:02.710 --> 46:03.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[46:03.490 --> 46:04.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[46:05.310 --> 46:05.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, good evening.
[46:06.610 --> 46:07.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's up?
[46:07.030 --> 46:13.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: I went on that plan that you were talking about, and what they do is they, when they see that you're using a lot of...
[46:14.350 --> 46:15.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: They charge you more.
[46:15.710 --> 46:17.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: They increase your price, so it's not fixed.
[46:18.550 --> 46:19.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: They charge you more for what?
[46:20.110 --> 46:21.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: When you were talking about...
[46:21.970 --> 46:25.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: When I went on, they said, well, we take an estimate of...
[46:25.790 --> 46:36.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you had service in 94, 95, and they do an average of that, and they tell you it's like $8 a month, $12 a month for local, unlimited.
[46:37.030 --> 46:39.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: And depending on what it is, they'll charge you a fixed rate.
[46:40.090 --> 46:47.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: I had $8 for regional, and I made like 670 calls consistently for months at a time, you know.
[46:47.870 --> 46:49.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: They just raised my price.
[46:49.470 --> 46:55.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, they have been raising the price over the years by a couple of dollars a year or something like that, but not dramatically.
[46:55.470 --> 46:56.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right, right.
[46:56.010 --> 46:57.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, it's still a good deal.
[46:57.410 --> 46:57.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: One other thing.
[46:58.590 --> 47:03.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Any phone that you have on the same billing plan is entitled to that.
[47:03.450 --> 47:20.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, if you have XYZ on that plan, if you have, you know, what I said, XYZ, if you have one number on the plan, any other phone that you have in your house and you have it billed to the same bill is entitled to that unlimited calling at the same rate.
[47:20.690 --> 47:29.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, but by the same token, if that other phone line makes more calls, they might get a higher rate, and they might give you that rate instead.
[47:29.430 --> 47:30.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, it goes on the same rate.
[47:30.950 --> 47:31.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: It just falls into that point.
[47:31.950 --> 47:33.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but what determines which rate they choose?
[47:33.810 --> 47:35.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: They put it on the rate that you have.
[47:36.070 --> 47:37.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's something that they don't tell you, though.
[47:39.490 --> 47:45.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: So you're saying if you get the rate, you can cut over all of your phone lines to the same rate.
[47:45.350 --> 47:45.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'll try that.
[47:46.050 --> 47:46.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll try that.
[47:46.390 --> 47:48.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: As long as they're billed to the same bill.
[47:48.070 --> 47:50.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, there's only one thing that I'm almost certain of.
[47:51.150 --> 47:52.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: They will never lower your rate.
[47:53.930 --> 47:56.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Not unless they're forced to by law, Isaac.
[47:57.790 --> 47:58.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Imagine such a thing.
[47:58.630 --> 47:59.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Get off IRC.
[47:59.630 --> 48:00.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pay attention.
[48:00.230 --> 48:00.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the radio.
[48:00.690 --> 48:01.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: I am paying attention.
[48:01.090 --> 48:01.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[48:01.430 --> 48:01.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[48:03.070 --> 48:03.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: You, caller.
[48:03.890 --> 48:04.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[48:04.650 --> 48:05.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Isaac doesn't know he's on the air.
[48:06.810 --> 48:07.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, caller.
[48:07.610 --> 48:08.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was your big moment of fame.
[48:09.150 --> 48:10.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's move on to the next caller.
[48:10.210 --> 48:10.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[48:10.730 --> 48:11.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[48:11.510 --> 48:12.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[48:12.870 --> 48:13.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's up?
[48:13.450 --> 48:14.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, hi.
[48:14.330 --> 48:17.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: I have a kind of elementary question, but it's been bugging me for weeks.
[48:18.070 --> 48:18.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go right ahead.
[48:19.330 --> 48:32.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was told by Juno Techie that I should stop my... I should just unload Juno, because I was getting all kinds of crazy boxes with little white crosses in red circles.
[48:32.990 --> 48:37.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, that famous one that says, you know, you're going to die if you stay on the computer, whatever it is.
[48:37.830 --> 48:39.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: But anyway...
[48:39.070 --> 48:39.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[48:39.630 --> 48:40.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's a new one for me.
[48:40.850 --> 48:40.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[48:42.330 --> 48:46.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: But actually, then they said you have to reload Windows 98.
[48:46.390 --> 48:48.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: I thought, uh-oh, problems, right?
[48:49.170 --> 48:54.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I did some research on Symantec and got the update on Norton 2001.
[48:55.470 --> 48:58.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Downloaded all my disks so I could do it.
[48:58.370 --> 49:03.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then I look at the Windows 98 I have, and it says, do not use this unless you're a new PC user.
[49:04.910 --> 49:07.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: So what do you do with Windows 98 if it's not working right?
[49:09.890 --> 49:10.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Boy, I...
[49:10.510 --> 49:10.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't get...
[49:10.850 --> 49:12.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're asking the wrong person.
[49:12.590 --> 49:14.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've never used Windows 98.
[49:14.210 --> 49:14.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, boy.
[49:14.810 --> 49:15.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[49:15.230 --> 49:16.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: Use Windows 95, huh?
[49:16.370 --> 49:18.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Again, this is something more suited for the personal computer folks.
[49:19.110 --> 49:19.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Indeed.
[49:19.230 --> 49:19.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did you listen to them?
[49:20.110 --> 49:21.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, yes, I do.
[49:21.230 --> 49:21.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[49:21.430 --> 49:23.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think they could probably answer this one in their sleep.
[49:23.950 --> 49:24.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[49:24.610 --> 49:24.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[49:25.170 --> 49:25.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[49:25.490 --> 49:25.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks a lot.
[49:26.090 --> 49:26.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sure.
[49:26.570 --> 49:27.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we can tell you how to break things.
[49:27.970 --> 49:35.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we can tell you how to, like, wipe the drive and reinstall it from scratch, which seems to be something people should like to do every two weeks anyway.
[49:36.850 --> 49:37.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Especially keep backups.
[49:38.470 --> 49:39.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Backups are good.
[49:39.390 --> 49:42.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, I want to ask people out there, and people here, too.
[49:42.710 --> 49:44.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: We all have computers.
[49:44.350 --> 49:49.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: We all have... most of us, anyway, have computers and, you know, have important data that we keep on these computers.
[49:49.570 --> 49:51.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: How many of us actually have backups?
[49:51.330 --> 49:57.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: If those computers were to disappear, you know, explode, you know, melt away into nothingness, would your...
[49:57.950 --> 49:58.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: data be safe.
[49:59.470 --> 49:59.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[49:59.930 --> 50:08.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of those people that keep backups, how many of you keep the backups right next to the damn computer so that if they blow up, they'll take the backups with them?
[50:08.250 --> 50:09.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Two physical locations.
[50:09.350 --> 50:10.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Two physical locations.
[50:10.170 --> 50:10.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[50:10.670 --> 50:11.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: And is that secure?
[50:11.730 --> 50:13.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is it encrypted?
[50:14.350 --> 50:15.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Could somebody steal your data?
[50:15.670 --> 50:16.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: One of them is encrypted.
[50:16.890 --> 50:20.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: The other one is secure by another means.
[50:20.190 --> 50:20.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[50:20.770 --> 50:21.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[50:21.150 --> 50:22.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: You've got to keep these things in mind.
[50:22.330 --> 50:22.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[50:23.130 --> 50:26.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, you have no one to blame but yourself if you lose information because...
[50:26.950 --> 50:29.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: And the Australian DVD people, you can blame them.
[50:29.770 --> 50:39.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, you know, I'm thinking of sending some of my backups to them, and we could do a whole little thing there where it's doubtful that a meteor would hit both New York and Australia at the same time.
[50:39.210 --> 50:40.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, you'd be sending munitions.
[50:40.990 --> 50:41.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you get hit by a munitions...
[50:41.690 --> 50:42.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, that's right.
[50:43.010 --> 50:43.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can't do the backups.
[50:44.150 --> 50:44.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[50:44.490 --> 50:47.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: You'd be sending munitions overseas, so that's not a good idea.
[50:47.810 --> 50:48.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: Second of the phone call.
[50:48.490 --> 50:48.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[50:48.770 --> 50:49.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[50:50.430 --> 50:50.830]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[50:50.950 --> 50:53.550]  [SPEAKER_19]: About the selling software on the street corner.
[50:53.690 --> 50:53.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[50:54.090 --> 50:57.350]  [SPEAKER_19]: There's a guy on the corner of Broadway and NASA who sells Linux for $10.
[50:58.050 --> 50:58.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: No kidding.
[50:59.370 --> 51:01.850]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, uh, about your thing about the...
[51:01.850 --> 51:02.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: Wait.
[51:02.190 --> 51:04.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: NASA and Broadway sells Linux for $10?
[51:04.930 --> 51:05.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[51:05.290 --> 51:06.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: What kind of Linux?
[51:06.210 --> 51:06.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Red Hat?
[51:06.510 --> 51:06.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Red Hat?
[51:06.890 --> 51:06.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[51:07.510 --> 51:07.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[51:08.410 --> 51:08.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[51:09.470 --> 51:10.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Night hours?
[51:10.790 --> 51:11.430]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, yeah.
[51:11.630 --> 51:12.930]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, at nighttime, yeah.
[51:13.450 --> 51:14.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: So about one in the morning.
[51:14.870 --> 51:16.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Guess where we're going after the show.
[51:16.450 --> 51:18.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: You're going to pick up your copy of Linux, huh?
[51:18.790 --> 51:19.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, I'm going to...
[51:19.670 --> 51:19.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pirate Red Hat.
[51:20.070 --> 51:20.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to, uh...
[51:20.590 --> 51:21.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: You need your fix of Linux?
[51:21.910 --> 51:22.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: Pirate Open Source.
[51:22.370 --> 51:23.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to sell him my upgrade.
[51:23.970 --> 51:24.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, my.
[51:24.730 --> 51:24.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[51:25.030 --> 51:25.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: What else, caller?
[51:26.410 --> 51:26.970]  [SPEAKER_19]: Um, yeah.
[51:27.710 --> 51:30.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: Your thing about the MP3 player in the diner?
[51:30.270 --> 51:30.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yes.
[51:31.110 --> 51:31.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[51:31.590 --> 51:33.790]  [SPEAKER_19]: Um, there's a commercial on TV for Quest.
[51:34.330 --> 51:34.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[51:34.690 --> 51:39.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: And some guy goes into a bar and asks what song he wants to play.
[51:39.470 --> 51:41.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: There was some classical song.
[51:42.110 --> 51:44.350]  [SPEAKER_19]: And the lady said, yeah, we have it.
[51:44.450 --> 51:45.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: And the guy says, how is that possible?
[51:45.990 --> 51:50.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: And she said, oh, we have every single piece of recorded music ever made.
[51:50.270 --> 51:50.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[51:51.030 --> 51:52.510]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I don't know.
[51:52.630 --> 51:54.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: Maybe you should call up the Quest, people.
[51:54.170 --> 51:55.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've been seeing that commercial for about a year now.
[51:55.930 --> 52:01.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: They also have the motel where you check into and they have every single film ever made and every language conceivable.
[52:01.490 --> 52:04.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the thing is, this is what, like, one of the AT&T You Will commercials.
[52:04.730 --> 52:04.730]  You will commercials.
[52:04.850 --> 52:05.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: I miss those.
[52:05.510 --> 52:08.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: They take credit for things that they haven't yet done.
[52:08.750 --> 52:12.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they make these utopia worlds where everybody's going to have access to everything.
[52:12.290 --> 52:13.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you know, they don't want it to be that way.
[52:14.050 --> 52:15.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: They want to be able to charge you every time you think.
[52:16.310 --> 52:30.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, uh, I think, you know, if anyone does it, it's going to be people like us that, you know, make MP3s and make sure people have access to them and figure out our own way of distribution and not just, uh, you know, rely on the old-fashioned methods, uh,
[52:30.790 --> 52:32.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: where, uh, people have no say.
[52:32.670 --> 52:35.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, um, yeah, it's... the potential is certainly there.
[52:35.270 --> 52:36.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've yet to see.
[52:36.250 --> 52:44.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've gotten several letters about the MP3 jukebox and people that, that say that they have seen limited models that, uh, you know, have lots and lots of music.
[52:45.090 --> 52:47.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, uh, you know, I still don't see enough.
[52:47.170 --> 52:49.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: I still don't see the kind of thing that I'm looking for.
[52:49.630 --> 52:51.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm almost finished with my, uh, my encoding too.
[52:51.690 --> 52:53.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have, uh, 24 days of music.
[52:53.410 --> 52:54.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're still, you're still working through it?
[52:54.510 --> 52:55.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Home stretch.
[52:55.450 --> 52:55.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Home stretch.
[52:56.270 --> 52:56.270]  Cool.
[52:56.270 --> 52:56.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[52:56.650 --> 52:59.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: 24 days of, uh, of, of music straight from all the CDs that I own.
[53:00.130 --> 53:06.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: So when are you going to, like, disappear for the month and come out, like, a month later with long fingernails and hair over your face and everything?
[53:07.230 --> 53:08.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think I've already done that.
[53:08.370 --> 53:09.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: You've already done that?
[53:09.010 --> 53:09.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[53:09.190 --> 53:10.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, uh, it's, it's quite a task.
[53:10.990 --> 53:11.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: It really is.
[53:11.670 --> 53:15.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it's, it's, it makes things so much easier when you're able to access things.
[53:15.090 --> 53:16.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know what you have.
[53:17.170 --> 53:18.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: I bought the same, have anyone else done this?
[53:18.530 --> 53:19.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: I bought the same CD twice.
[53:20.090 --> 53:23.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't think I owned it and I bought it and I found two of them in my house.
[53:23.290 --> 53:24.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't have that many, so.
[53:24.430 --> 53:25.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can you get a refund for that?
[53:25.510 --> 53:26.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think so.
[53:26.250 --> 53:27.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: You return it to the store.
[53:27.890 --> 53:28.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he's what excuse?
[53:29.270 --> 53:31.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: You come with the receipt and say, I already own this.
[53:31.470 --> 53:31.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[53:31.810 --> 53:33.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: You look like an idiot, but you are.
[53:33.450 --> 53:41.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but that's, it has to be shrink wrapped, you know, and some stores, some stores only let you buy the same one, which doesn't do me any good at all.
[53:41.310 --> 53:41.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, that's silly.
[53:41.850 --> 53:42.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good evening.
[53:42.270 --> 53:42.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[53:44.090 --> 53:44.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yes.
[53:44.990 --> 53:45.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's up?
[53:45.630 --> 53:46.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, look here.
[53:46.170 --> 53:52.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: When, uh, uh, when you're down streaming, uh, a broadcast from, uh, uh, a real player.
[53:52.630 --> 53:52.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[53:52.950 --> 53:54.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: How can you record the broadcast?
[53:54.890 --> 53:55.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[53:55.490 --> 53:56.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good question.
[53:56.270 --> 53:57.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's an excellent question.
[53:57.330 --> 53:58.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Excellent question.
[53:58.210 --> 54:00.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, you can and you can't.
[54:01.070 --> 54:01.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh.
[54:01.630 --> 54:02.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Tell us the part that you can.
[54:02.950 --> 54:17.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: The part that you can is that since you are getting this information and it is being sent to you, there is theoretically, or, or in fact, some means by which you could, for instance, spool that to a large single file and be able to play it back.
[54:17.170 --> 54:23.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: What you need, though, is some piece of software that would intercept that stream and write it to disk for you so you could play it at your leisure.
[54:23.790 --> 54:28.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, this used to exist and it used to be sold.
[54:28.310 --> 54:28.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[54:28.770 --> 54:32.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: But progressive networks, which is, I don't think they're called progressive networks now.
[54:32.450 --> 54:33.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because they're not very progressive anymore.
[54:33.990 --> 54:33.990]  No.
[54:34.310 --> 54:35.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're called real networks.
[54:35.730 --> 54:36.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Real networks is what they're called.
[54:36.610 --> 54:37.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because they're pretty real.
[54:37.730 --> 54:37.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[54:38.010 --> 54:41.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they, they decided to take those guys to court and, uh, completely.
[54:42.290 --> 54:43.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Are we talking about Streambox Ripper?
[54:43.630 --> 54:44.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Streambox Ripper, yeah.
[54:44.490 --> 54:44.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Streambox Ripper.
[54:44.850 --> 54:46.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have a copy of that and it works.
[54:46.690 --> 54:46.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[54:47.190 --> 54:47.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah.
[54:47.810 --> 54:48.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: They can't get it anymore.
[54:48.890 --> 54:51.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, well, if you know how to search the Internet, you can get anything.
[54:52.530 --> 54:54.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a dangerous, dangerous theory there.
[54:54.890 --> 54:55.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not going to go there.
[54:55.250 --> 55:00.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: The other option is, of course, you can always take a video camera and, and look at it.
[55:00.690 --> 55:01.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Point it at the screen.
[55:01.870 --> 55:02.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Point it at the screen.
[55:02.470 --> 55:02.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's kind of silly.
[55:02.870 --> 55:05.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: But you can also, you can also take a packet dump.
[55:05.350 --> 55:05.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: It works.
[55:05.970 --> 55:06.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[55:06.310 --> 55:08.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: The real audio works on the, what's it called?
[55:09.770 --> 55:10.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: The UDP.
[55:10.690 --> 55:13.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: The UDP, the, no, it's not UDP.
[55:13.510 --> 55:18.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's, it's, it's this media type, which is designed for, it's based on... RTSP, the real-time streaming protocol.
[55:18.430 --> 55:20.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, real-time streaming protocol based on UDP.
[55:21.190 --> 55:21.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[55:21.370 --> 55:29.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: And if you use a program like Ethereal, uh, which is a packet capturing program or TCP dump, you can capture everything and... Say, Ethereal?
[55:30.350 --> 55:30.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: Ethereal.
[55:30.950 --> 55:31.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[55:31.290 --> 55:31.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, let's...
[55:31.610 --> 55:31.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've got it.
[55:31.950 --> 55:33.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's starting to get, like, really complex.
[55:33.710 --> 55:34.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: E-T-H-E-R-E-A-L.
[55:35.470 --> 55:39.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: That, at that point, you're starting to talk, like, serious network administration engineering.
[55:39.710 --> 55:45.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, are there, are there types of streaming that, by definition, are also able to be saved?
[55:45.390 --> 55:45.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: They all can.
[55:46.130 --> 55:47.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, I mean... It's information theory.
[55:47.650 --> 55:49.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you can hear it, you can record it.
[55:49.210 --> 55:53.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: Obviously, obviously, in theory, but I'm saying, you know, that, that, that people listening can do easily.
[55:53.350 --> 55:55.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you're outside... MP3, there's a bunch of... Can you do easily?
[55:56.290 --> 55:58.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Streaming MP3 is, yes, very easy to record.
[55:58.650 --> 56:00.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a checkbox in Winamp or whatever you're using.
[56:00.890 --> 56:06.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's just, the, whoever is producing the streaming thing sometimes has to set a flag to allow you to record it.
[56:06.630 --> 56:06.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[56:07.170 --> 56:09.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, you can also do that with real.
[56:09.350 --> 56:18.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's just that enabling that flag to enable real recording is not easily accessible in the real streaming stuff, so it's, it's disabled by default.
[56:18.690 --> 56:23.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like Mike said, it's, uh, it's a checkbox with Winamp, you know, with, with MP3s.
[56:23.270 --> 56:23.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[56:23.630 --> 56:24.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, that makes it a lot easier.
[56:25.030 --> 56:26.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: But thanks, uh, thanks for the question, thank you.
[56:26.550 --> 56:31.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: The point is, this isn't a limitation of the encoding, it's a limitation of the software that is doing the decoding.
[56:32.070 --> 56:32.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[56:32.450 --> 56:32.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[56:32.610 --> 56:34.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Which means that we have to figure out a way around it.
[56:34.390 --> 56:34.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[56:34.570 --> 56:36.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you can write your own and try to figure it out.
[56:36.310 --> 56:43.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: But you know, that's outside of the United States and the purview of the DMCA, uh, then you can reverse engineer.
[56:43.330 --> 56:43.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure.
[56:43.850 --> 56:46.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: But here in the States, you have a problem like that, and I think that's wrong.
[56:48.910 --> 56:49.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[56:51.290 --> 56:51.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, good evening.
[56:52.790 --> 56:53.150]  Um...
[56:53.150 --> 56:53.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Speak up.
[56:53.810 --> 56:54.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[56:54.290 --> 56:54.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Can you hear me now?
[56:54.970 --> 56:56.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, but you're in a very noisy place.
[56:56.830 --> 56:57.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I am.
[56:57.750 --> 56:59.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're absolutely right about that.
[56:59.510 --> 57:09.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, uh, I've been having a good consistent problem, uh, that you folks might know something about, I hope, so I can pass it on to the people who I pay, but don't seem to be able to solve the problem.
[57:09.850 --> 57:19.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: That is to say that, uh, my voicemail, uh, gets blocked sometimes by busies, busy, busy, busy, busies, and nobody's calling there.
[57:19.850 --> 57:23.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, uh, I've been told it's a reset problem.
[57:23.290 --> 57:32.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: They have, uh, you know, like, uh, by the way, MCI usually, uh, calls made to the, uh, number, uh, on MCI usually are the ones that are blocked that way.
[57:32.490 --> 57:39.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it has been rectified periodically, you know, where if you get a busy, uh, you call right back, uh, you might get through.
[57:39.490 --> 57:42.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, uh, is any of this, uh...
[57:42.390 --> 57:43.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, let me ask you a question.
[57:43.730 --> 57:44.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: You say busy.
[57:44.570 --> 57:45.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you mean a fast busy?
[57:45.690 --> 57:46.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, I don't mean a trouble busy.
[57:46.970 --> 57:50.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean an ordinary busy signal, which is non-stop for an hour, let's say.
[57:51.190 --> 57:54.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, now, this, this voicemail that you have, what kind of voicemail is it?
[57:54.970 --> 57:56.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a service that I pay for.
[57:57.030 --> 58:02.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, so, is it that entire exchange that cannot be reached, or is it any number that you cannot reach?
[58:02.790 --> 58:03.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, I don't know.
[58:03.890 --> 58:04.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: I only know my number.
[58:05.210 --> 58:05.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[58:05.650 --> 58:11.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: What I suggest you do, the next time it happens, call, like, one number up, one number down, see if that's busy, too.
[58:12.030 --> 58:16.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: What that tells me, if that's the case, is that they don't have enough incoming trunks going into their service.
[58:16.850 --> 58:18.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, that's not the problem.
[58:18.130 --> 58:25.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've already, it's MCI, uh, first of all, as I said, it has been, it's been narrowed down to calls carried by MCI.
[58:25.510 --> 58:25.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[58:25.950 --> 58:27.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, somebody said something about a reset.
[58:27.990 --> 58:30.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've spoken to MCI about this myself, you know?
[58:31.230 --> 58:33.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, if you call in a different long-distance company, it'll work.
[58:33.770 --> 58:33.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[58:34.570 --> 58:35.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's interesting.
[58:35.490 --> 58:38.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, it sounds like MCI doesn't have enough trunks.
[58:38.590 --> 58:38.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[58:38.990 --> 58:39.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[58:39.630 --> 58:41.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have that problem with VoiceStream.
[58:41.610 --> 58:45.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: VoiceStream is constantly giving people, uh, all circuits, busy errors.
[58:46.490 --> 58:57.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, when I was traveling in Europe, uh, people were trying to call me, and it was, it was great having a phone that would ring on a train in Europe, but they were getting blocked in New York because VoiceStream's, uh, circuits were all busy.
[58:58.110 --> 59:01.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, VoiceStream is, is, is, is, is the, is the same as the European standard, right?
[59:01.930 --> 59:02.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, GSM.
[59:03.050 --> 59:03.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's very strange.
[59:03.850 --> 59:05.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, here's, here's another one, another question.
[59:05.170 --> 59:05.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can I make it quick?
[59:05.770 --> 59:06.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're, we're out of time.
[59:06.390 --> 59:17.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, using call-around numbers, uh, you know, on, on your fixed phone and or calling cards, uh, these people are starting, you start to get charged these incredible, uh, tariffs every time you use it.
[59:17.830 --> 59:18.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, absolutely.
[59:18.370 --> 59:21.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: Are they going to totally destroy the ability to use these things?
[59:21.330 --> 59:25.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think they're, they're moving people away from using things like payphones, for instance, when you...
[59:25.390 --> 59:26.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm still here on the payphone.
[59:26.630 --> 59:27.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the payphone, too.
[59:27.630 --> 59:28.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and I just fed it.
[59:28.670 --> 59:29.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a nickel.
[59:29.190 --> 59:39.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, um, basically, I think they're trying to discourage people from using payphones because they, they charge these outlandish fees for using a payphone, as if that cost anything.
[59:39.850 --> 59:45.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you call an 800 number, they, they tack on a 25 cent fee, and that gets passed on to you if you use a calling card.
[59:45.750 --> 59:47.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: And plus, this calling card surcharges.
[59:47.410 --> 59:54.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, basically, using a payphone is, is many, many, many times more expensive than using a cell phone or a regular home phone.
[59:54.510 --> 01:00:00.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's just no reason for this to be the case, especially for people who can't afford either a home phone or a cell phone.
[01:00:00.850 --> 01:00:02.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, unfortunately, we're out of time.
[01:00:02.330 --> 01:00:03.750]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks very much for that call and all the others.
[01:00:04.090 --> 01:00:06.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, hopefully we'll get to more people next week.
[01:00:06.670 --> 01:00:13.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: Again, come to the ICON conference this weekend at the State University of New York at Stony Brook, uh, showing the film twice, Friday and Saturday.
[01:00:15.310 --> 01:00:17.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: www.iconsf.org has all the information.
[01:00:17.730 --> 01:00:18.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: There you go.
[01:00:18.410 --> 01:00:20.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, we hope to see you there.
[01:00:20.230 --> 01:00:21.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: There'll be a bunch of hacker panels as well.
[01:00:21.790 --> 01:00:22.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: That'll be a lot of fun.
[01:00:22.590 --> 01:00:23.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll see you out there, right, Isaac?
[01:00:23.950 --> 01:00:24.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm speaking.
[01:00:24.510 --> 01:00:25.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, great.
[01:00:25.350 --> 01:00:25.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to have a ball.
[01:00:25.810 --> 01:00:29.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll come see Bruce Sterling at the Guggenheim at 7 o'clock on Friday, too.
[01:00:29.870 --> 01:00:30.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[01:00:30.210 --> 01:00:30.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: That sounds like fun as well.
[01:00:31.690 --> 01:00:33.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Until next week, Emmanuel Goldstein, have a good night.