Off The Hook - 2001-04-24

[00:04.330 --> 00:06.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: The Palestinian reality.
[00:06.700 --> 00:09.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: What's really happening in the Muslim lands.
[00:09.520 --> 00:12.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: A new memoir by Professor Leila Ahmed.
[00:12.620 --> 00:16.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: Or Muslim political candidates in the USA.
[00:16.700 --> 00:24.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: These and more are questions you can hear discussed on Tuff Rear, WBAI's magazine of the Arab Muslim community.
[00:24.680 --> 00:33.030]  [SPEAKER_17]: Marhaba, I'm Barbara Numeri-Aziz and I'd like you to join me and our Tuff Rear staff every Tuesday night at 9 o'clock.
[00:33.140 --> 00:35.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's Tuesdays from 9 to 10 p.m.
[00:36.140 --> 00:41.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: here on listener-sponsored WBAI 99.5 FM in New York.
[00:41.880 --> 00:45.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: You're sure to find something new and sometimes controversy.
[00:54.780 --> 00:58.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're tuned to listener-sponsored, non-commercial, WBAI in New York.
[00:58.680 --> 01:00.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: That program coming up at 9 p.m.
[01:00.920 --> 01:01.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: this evening.
[01:01.580 --> 01:04.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: Talk here with Dr. Barmer Numeri-Aziz.
[01:04.910 --> 01:10.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: As it is 20 hundred hours, 8 p.m., we are awaiting Senor Emmanuel Goldstein.
[01:10.830 --> 01:16.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: So if anyone's out there in the ether floating around and see Emmanuel, point him towards WBAI in New York.
[01:17.020 --> 01:25.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Gee whiz, I was going to sing the theme, seeing as we don't have it, but I've done that before and I've had threats made on my life because I sang somebody's theme.
[01:25.800 --> 01:27.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: It destroyed it thoroughly.
[01:27.260 --> 01:29.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think we're just going to go into...
[01:29.020 --> 01:33.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: We have some gentlemen here of the Off The Hook Crew Collective, as it were.
[01:35.100 --> 01:36.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Introduce yourselves, guys.
[01:36.660 --> 01:38.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good evening, this is Mike here.
[01:38.960 --> 01:40.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: Welcome to Off The Hook.
[01:40.800 --> 01:41.760]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hey, how you doing?
[01:42.000 --> 01:48.440]  [SPEAKER_21]: This is the anonymous guy, just sitting here on the red microphone in place of Isaac.
[01:49.160 --> 01:50.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: I cut myself while shaving.
[01:51.320 --> 01:52.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: I can't make a call.
[01:53.040 --> 01:53.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: I can't help myself.
[01:55.080 --> 01:56.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: And this is XRD.
[01:57.080 --> 01:58.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm also not Isaac.
[02:00.320 --> 02:01.380]  [SPEAKER_21]: Eric, where are you?
[02:01.500 --> 02:02.800]  [SPEAKER_21]: And I'm not Chevy Chase either.
[02:05.080 --> 02:06.060]  [SPEAKER_21]: I don't know.
[02:06.060 --> 02:10.100]  [SPEAKER_21]: Do we have any music that we can, like, at least riff to?
[02:10.100 --> 02:11.220]  [SPEAKER_21]: Sure, I can rap.
[02:11.480 --> 02:11.840]  [SPEAKER_21]: There you go.
[02:11.880 --> 02:13.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Look, I said with Amadeus, I'm going to do this.
[02:14.260 --> 02:14.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, there you go.
[02:15.810 --> 02:17.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, this is Seed of the Past Radio, people.
[02:18.780 --> 02:19.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: There we go.
[02:20.350 --> 02:42.260]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, I was just listening to the show before, this is the Expert Witness show, and it seems to be falling in a theme that hackers and all people can take to their heart, which is that you can't rely on the system that's in place to uncover this information that's out there for you to uncover.
[02:42.500 --> 02:43.900]  [SPEAKER_21]: You have to do it yourself.
[02:44.240 --> 03:02.720]  [SPEAKER_21]: And whether that means going to Canada over the weekend to challenge the power in place for the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas, or hacking kernel code on Linux, or creating your own independent media and commercial-free media, like here we have at WBAI.
[03:03.980 --> 03:23.420]  [SPEAKER_21]: Anyway, and actually, I don't want to bring up internal WBAI politics, but I do want to say that my experience just now, where Eric is not here, and the kind hosts here at WBAI said, well, do you guys, you know, want to talk about hacking stuff on the radio?
[03:23.420 --> 03:36.080]  [SPEAKER_21]: And they have never seen any of us, except for maybe Mike, before, and just let us write on the radio, because they believe in free speech radio, and that's where it's at.
[03:37.100 --> 03:56.080]  [SPEAKER_21]: And so, the FBI hacked into Russian computers this weekend, or over the past couple, over the past week, or it was announced this weekend, and because they claim they have no jurisdiction in Russia, so they could social engineer passwords out of so-called Russian hackers who were hacking into American computers,
[03:56.360 --> 04:02.760]  [SPEAKER_21]: which generally speaks to the low paranoia level of the Russians.
[04:02.760 --> 04:06.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: What was the purpose, or the stated purpose, of this hacking?
[04:06.660 --> 04:33.300]  [SPEAKER_21]: The, apparently, story on MSNBC and CNN, very few details, but the details that I gleaned were that Russian hackers posing, you know, posing as hackers, were lured by a false American computer security company, which was created by the FBI, sort of a honeypot thing.
[04:33.940 --> 04:40.080]  [SPEAKER_21]: And the name of the company, I think, was called Invita, like they were inviting the hackers to hack them.
[04:40.260 --> 04:58.200]  [SPEAKER_21]: And then when they hacked the supposed security company, they were offered jobs here in the United States, and they stupidly were social engineered into revealing their usernames and passwords by the FBI agents posing as computer security professionals,
[04:58.650 --> 05:00.330]  [SPEAKER_21]: which they probably are.
[05:00.800 --> 05:03.360]  [SPEAKER_21]: But they're law enforcement computer security specials.
[05:03.440 --> 05:05.330]  [SPEAKER_20]: So because it's in Russia, they can lie?
[05:05.600 --> 05:06.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Or can they lie?
[05:06.460 --> 05:15.060]  [SPEAKER_21]: Because it's in Russia, they can social engineer the password, and they actually tricked them into coming to the United States to get jobs, and then they arrested them when they got here.
[05:15.770 --> 05:17.380]  [SPEAKER_21]: For what crime, do you know?
[05:17.820 --> 05:20.020]  [SPEAKER_21]: For hacking into computers in the United States.
[05:20.020 --> 05:22.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: So this was kind of a counter-attack, if you will?
[05:23.020 --> 05:26.830]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yes, it was termed reverse hacking in the CNN article.
[05:28.120 --> 05:30.120]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, uh, I don't know.
[05:30.640 --> 05:31.880]  [SPEAKER_21]: Reverse hacking, that's, you know...
[05:31.880 --> 05:32.940]  [SPEAKER_21]: Is that like hacking upside down?
[05:33.000 --> 05:35.420]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's like, that's like, uh, rot 13.
[05:36.000 --> 05:37.480]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's hacking upside down, yeah.
[05:37.800 --> 05:46.320]  [SPEAKER_21]: And so, uh, and what else, uh, anything, uh, anything you know of happened over the...
[05:46.320 --> 05:47.000]  [SPEAKER_21]: And you?
[05:48.440 --> 05:49.820]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, nothing at all, huh?
[05:49.820 --> 05:50.840]  [SPEAKER_21]: So we're just gonna...
[05:51.540 --> 05:52.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: We can't just stare at each other.
[05:52.960 --> 05:53.820]  [SPEAKER_21]: We can't just sit here, yeah, exactly.
[05:54.000 --> 05:55.760]  [SPEAKER_21]: We have to talk about stuff, and, uh...
[05:55.760 --> 06:01.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, why don't I take advantage of the, uh, radio with nothing going on to, uh, announce an event this weekend.
[06:01.940 --> 06:13.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, the New York City Campus Greens are organizing a citywide forum, uh, this Saturday at 3pm, down at, uh, or I guess it's up from here at, uh, New York University.
[06:13.040 --> 06:20.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: And we're gonna have Tom Tomorrow, who draws the cartoon, This Modern World, and, uh, Reverend Billy of the Church of Stop Shopping.
[06:20.700 --> 06:21.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[06:21.360 --> 06:28.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, uh, sounds like a good time, and I especially encourage any students to come, but the public is welcome, and it's free admission.
[06:28.800 --> 06:31.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's 3pm this Saturday.
[06:31.520 --> 06:33.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Is there an H2K1 coming up?
[06:34.060 --> 06:35.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, my understanding...
[06:35.100 --> 06:35.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Or planned?
[06:35.540 --> 06:38.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: My understanding is there'll be one next year, in 2002.
[06:38.940 --> 06:40.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: So it'll be H2K2?
[06:41.000 --> 06:46.940]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, this year, in the summertime, there's the Chaos Computer Club's, uh...
[06:47.440 --> 06:49.020]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, wait, no, it's not the Chaos Computer Club.
[06:49.120 --> 06:50.080]  [SPEAKER_21]: What's the...
[06:50.080 --> 06:51.940]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's called HAL 2001.
[06:52.520 --> 06:53.000]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hackers...
[06:53.000 --> 06:53.820]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hackers at Large.
[06:53.820 --> 07:11.120]  [SPEAKER_21]: At Large, in the Netherlands, uh, in August, and so I'm planning to attend that, and that should be quite an interesting thing, because it brings together, uh, people from all walks of the computer life, usually these European events do, not just supposed hackers,
[07:11.460 --> 07:23.700]  [SPEAKER_21]: but computer professionals, and people who are in law enforcement, and people who are on the programming side, uh, rather than the deprogramming side of computers, and...
[07:23.700 --> 07:30.080]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, if you're worried, the official language of the program is English, so you, you don't even have to learn a foreign language.
[07:30.280 --> 07:31.120]  [SPEAKER_21]: Which you should, though.
[07:31.320 --> 07:32.080]  [SPEAKER_21]: You should, anyway.
[07:32.920 --> 07:34.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: But Dutch might not be your, your top choice.
[07:34.640 --> 07:36.120]  [SPEAKER_21]: It might not be your top choice, but...
[07:36.620 --> 07:38.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Will that even be webcast, you know?
[07:39.060 --> 07:41.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: For those of us that, that can't afford a ticket.
[07:41.280 --> 07:42.960]  [SPEAKER_21]: I think that some...
[07:42.960 --> 07:53.520]  [SPEAKER_21]: I'm certain that some portions of it will be recorded and webcast, either live or, or probably at a later date, but these hackers, they're getting the hang of that Internet thing, so it, it might be webcast in its entirety.
[07:53.520 --> 07:54.140]  [SPEAKER_21]: I'm not sure.
[07:54.520 --> 07:58.260]  [SPEAKER_21]: I haven't, uh, read more than just the basic details from the planners.
[07:58.620 --> 07:59.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, cool.
[07:59.620 --> 07:59.780]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[07:59.780 --> 08:01.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to thank you guys, too.
[08:01.260 --> 08:02.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm Paul Williams on the board up here.
[08:03.060 --> 08:06.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: I want to thank you guys at 2600 for webcasting, WBAI.
[08:06.620 --> 08:11.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Speaking of webcasting, you guys have been streaming us, and, uh, that's really, really, really appreciated.
[08:11.480 --> 08:12.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're doing this on your own.
[08:12.500 --> 08:15.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've asked you, and, and you guys said, okay, and you're doing it.
[08:15.460 --> 08:15.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's great.
[08:16.060 --> 08:16.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's good, actually.
[08:16.540 --> 08:17.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: I really appreciate it.
[08:17.360 --> 08:31.020]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, I'm actually, I, I get to, I live not too far from here and get poor reception because of the large buildings in downtown, so I listen to the 2600 webcasts of WBAI all during the week, not just during, off the hook.
[08:31.260 --> 08:31.480]  [SPEAKER_21]: Cool.
[08:31.640 --> 08:32.620]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's very nice, yeah.
[08:32.760 --> 08:33.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: Cool.
[08:33.020 --> 08:47.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: I should, I should also mention that we're working on, uh, getting an MP3 stream up working, uh, for those of you who may not have or may not want real player, and, uh, it was working last week, but it, it stopped working now, and we should have it up again in the next couple days.
[08:48.170 --> 08:48.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, really?
[08:48.960 --> 08:50.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: So that should be, uh, pretty nice.
[08:50.100 --> 09:01.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: And if I may just, too, just, I want to thank, uh, Roman Kazan over at escape.com, which I found out through you guys way back in the mid-90s when nobody was on the Internet, except with the porno folks and the UFOs.
[09:01.840 --> 09:02.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh...
[09:02.740 --> 09:03.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the hackers.
[09:03.520 --> 09:04.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the hackers, yeah.
[09:04.550 --> 09:04.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the hackers, yeah.
[09:04.920 --> 09:07.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, they're streaming on Salsa Windows Media Player.
[09:08.020 --> 09:12.550]  [SPEAKER_03]: Um, there's a long URL if you, uh, that's another story, but thanks, Roman.
[09:12.980 --> 09:13.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thank you, buddy.
[09:13.790 --> 09:21.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: And we should also thank the folks at, uh, knack.net, Net Access Corporation, who are providing the new stream once we get it working again.
[09:21.280 --> 09:21.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Excellent.
[09:21.720 --> 09:23.020]  [SPEAKER_21]: Very cool, very cool.
[09:24.220 --> 09:27.580]  [SPEAKER_21]: Anything else that we should, uh, any upcoming events?
[09:27.580 --> 09:28.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever happened to Bernie S?
[09:30.780 --> 09:31.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: How's he doing?
[09:31.760 --> 09:35.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: He, he's, he's out of jail, and he's going about his life, I take it.
[09:35.360 --> 09:40.860]  [SPEAKER_21]: Emmanuel is the one to, uh, he would, he would be the contact your point man on Bernie S.
[09:40.860 --> 09:41.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: What about Kevin Mitnick?
[09:41.840 --> 09:42.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: We don't hear about him anymore.
[09:42.960 --> 09:44.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is he out or is he in?
[09:44.600 --> 10:03.120]  [SPEAKER_21]: He's out, and the last that I heard of him was that he was fighting, or had successfully fought, uh, the conditions of his probation, which disallowed him from even speaking about computers to people, uh, although he did testify before Congress while that was ongoing,
[10:03.380 --> 10:06.500]  [SPEAKER_21]: while that appeal was ongoing, so, uh...
[10:06.500 --> 10:09.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's insane, so much of a free speech in America.
[10:09.620 --> 10:15.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, well, you know, my understanding is that he has a radio show, uh, or co-hosts a radio show out in California now.
[10:15.480 --> 10:19.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know the details about that, but, uh, I'm sure you can find them.
[10:19.260 --> 10:20.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, but he can't talk about computers.
[10:21.300 --> 10:25.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think he can, I think he can now talk about computers, he still can't use them.
[10:25.220 --> 10:26.170]  [SPEAKER_21]: He still can't operate them.
[10:26.400 --> 10:26.790]  God.
[10:27.020 --> 10:27.170]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[10:27.660 --> 10:30.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's like saying you can't have a telephone in your house.
[10:31.100 --> 10:31.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Pretty much.
[10:31.160 --> 10:44.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, back in the day when I was a kid back in the 50s or 40s or 30s, haha, um, people that applied for public assistance, um, if the, if the welfare worker came to your home and saw a phone, you were cut off.
[10:44.660 --> 10:48.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's really insane because how the heck are you going to get a job, you know?
[10:49.050 --> 10:50.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: And now it is...
[10:50.000 --> 10:50.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: And keep one.
[10:50.670 --> 10:51.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Really, and keep one.
[10:51.600 --> 10:54.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: And nowadays, I mean, you gotta have a phone, you gotta have a computer.
[10:54.840 --> 10:57.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: You gotta have a computer, you gotta be connected to the net.
[10:57.440 --> 11:01.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, these are just not necessities like having a bathroom, like having indoor plumbing.
[11:02.660 --> 11:17.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: How could they tell a person, because they figured that he may have misused it, and that's still a question, I believe, that he cannot have such an item, cannot use the technology, they being, uh, the big bad government.
[11:18.100 --> 11:26.880]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, it's, you know, we see that there are, the rules are fixed for most people, but they're very flexible for other people.
[11:27.200 --> 11:40.600]  [SPEAKER_21]: And so we see, like in Canada, like I heard earlier this afternoon here on WBAI, that apparently the, uh, Parliament of Canada found that the fence around Quebec City was unconstitutional.
[11:41.160 --> 11:44.720]  [SPEAKER_21]: However, that was okay, just for this once.
[11:45.300 --> 11:46.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just this one time.
[11:46.580 --> 11:46.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just this once.
[11:46.840 --> 11:47.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just this one time.
[11:47.580 --> 12:04.240]  [SPEAKER_21]: As long before, for a, for a, uh, a, the free trade area of the Americas Agreement, who only accepted, quote unquote, democratic countries, uh, with the constitutional governments into their ranks, excluding Cuba, because...
[12:04.240 --> 12:09.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Interesting how they decided every country in the hemisphere, except Cuba, was democratic.
[12:09.920 --> 12:16.840]  [SPEAKER_21]: A democracy, and, uh, but then they could suspend the terms of that democracy to hold the meeting about democracy.
[12:17.960 --> 12:18.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hmm.
[12:18.800 --> 12:22.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Is that a, um, it's like 1984, you know?
[12:23.100 --> 12:24.540]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, I think we're thinking too much.
[12:24.800 --> 12:25.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's a thought crime there.
[12:25.280 --> 12:25.800]  [SPEAKER_21]: We need to buy something.
[12:26.240 --> 12:26.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[12:27.260 --> 12:28.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we're thinking too much.
[12:28.500 --> 12:30.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: I keep hearing a cash register going off.
[12:30.320 --> 12:31.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just too bad we don't have a cash register.
[12:31.620 --> 12:32.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Cha-ching!
[12:33.020 --> 12:33.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know?
[12:33.900 --> 12:34.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is what's going on.
[12:34.900 --> 12:36.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: XRD, you're sitting there smiling, man.
[12:36.560 --> 12:38.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is radio, not television, bro.
[12:42.220 --> 12:44.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, you're listening to Off the Hook, and we're definitely off the hook.
[12:44.440 --> 12:45.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we're way off the hook.
[12:45.680 --> 12:46.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Way off the hook.
[12:46.440 --> 12:46.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're way off the hook.
[12:46.920 --> 12:48.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Not even trying to get there.
[12:48.520 --> 12:48.740]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[12:49.000 --> 12:49.620]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's, uh...
[12:49.620 --> 12:53.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you want to join in the fun, you can try 212-209-2900.
[12:53.000 --> 12:53.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, yeah, that's right.
[12:53.400 --> 12:55.440]  [SPEAKER_21]: This is listener-sponsored radio here at WBAI.
[12:55.440 --> 12:56.960]  [SPEAKER_21]: We would love to hear from listeners.
[12:56.960 --> 13:01.720]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, uh, because I'm certain that they have something to say, unlike me.
[13:02.100 --> 13:04.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, they're starting to ring us up.
[13:04.480 --> 13:06.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right, why don't we take, uh, one of these calls?
[13:06.560 --> 13:11.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, you know who you are, and ring us up here at 212-209-2900.
[13:12.240 --> 13:13.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: We got 1 or 2 or 3.
[13:13.940 --> 13:14.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: Gee, that's all.
[13:14.960 --> 13:15.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[13:15.760 --> 13:16.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll give it a shot.
[13:17.830 --> 13:18.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's WBAI.
[13:18.960 --> 13:19.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's you.
[13:20.280 --> 13:20.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Go.
[13:21.620 --> 13:22.040]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hello.
[13:22.320 --> 13:22.700]  [SPEAKER_21]: You're on the air.
[13:23.800 --> 13:26.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Get rid of uterus lead now.
[13:26.540 --> 13:27.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, bye-bye.
[13:27.520 --> 13:27.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: See?
[13:27.660 --> 13:28.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry.
[13:28.220 --> 13:30.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, you see, you're acting like a juvenile.
[13:30.760 --> 13:32.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, you act like a juvenile.
[13:32.700 --> 13:35.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: If people want to comment on the situation, that's one thing.
[13:35.880 --> 13:36.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Really?
[13:36.360 --> 13:38.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: But first, personal attacks, that's...
[13:38.600 --> 13:39.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: You act like a...
[13:39.280 --> 13:40.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, wait a minute.
[13:40.420 --> 13:41.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: What do I got against juveniles?
[13:41.560 --> 13:41.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Nothing.
[13:42.320 --> 13:43.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's so...
[13:43.640 --> 13:43.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[13:44.060 --> 13:45.340]  [SPEAKER_21]: You're giving juveniles a bad name.
[13:45.340 --> 13:46.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Really, really.
[13:46.400 --> 13:49.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: That is petty behavior, and it only shows...
[13:49.600 --> 13:50.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I won't say what it shows.
[13:51.540 --> 13:52.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: WBAI, you're on the air.
[13:53.580 --> 13:54.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello.
[13:54.440 --> 13:54.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
[13:55.500 --> 13:55.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[13:56.460 --> 14:01.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, if we are allowed to talk about...
[14:01.680 --> 14:08.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because the interim manager came and talked about a report, gave a report to the listeners.
[14:09.380 --> 14:09.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right?
[14:10.120 --> 14:11.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you want to...
[14:11.100 --> 14:11.500]  [SPEAKER_21]: Apparently.
[14:11.740 --> 14:14.140]  [SPEAKER_21]: I didn't hear that, so it's all hearsay.
[14:14.300 --> 14:14.880]  [SPEAKER_21]: So keep going.
[14:14.880 --> 14:15.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: She spoke about four hours.
[14:15.980 --> 14:19.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you want to give comments, try to keep the personalities out of it.
[14:20.200 --> 14:20.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, sure.
[14:21.200 --> 14:27.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm talking about the WBAI, which is a radio, and I'm one of the listeners.
[14:27.780 --> 14:30.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: She spoke for about four hours.
[14:30.220 --> 14:31.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we're all listeners here.
[14:31.560 --> 14:32.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead.
[14:32.340 --> 14:32.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[14:33.000 --> 14:34.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sure you are also.
[14:34.700 --> 14:35.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[14:35.780 --> 14:39.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the listeners did not have any time to respond to it.
[14:39.840 --> 14:42.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: They gave them only 20 minutes.
[14:42.760 --> 14:43.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's true.
[14:43.360 --> 14:43.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: I heard that...
[14:43.720 --> 14:47.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've been trying to get through for about 12 days.
[14:47.380 --> 14:47.560]  [SPEAKER_21]: Wow.
[14:48.320 --> 14:48.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway...
[14:48.760 --> 14:49.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, have you sent letters?
[14:50.460 --> 14:51.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Have you written them?
[14:51.500 --> 14:52.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, I'm going to...
[14:52.360 --> 14:53.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can write or you can send a fax.
[14:54.180 --> 14:55.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why don't we give out the address?
[14:55.960 --> 14:56.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's other media.
[14:56.760 --> 14:59.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: There's 120 Wall Street on the 10th floor.
[14:59.260 --> 14:59.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sure.
[14:59.640 --> 15:00.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: New York 1005.
[15:01.300 --> 15:01.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[15:01.980 --> 15:02.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sure.
[15:02.320 --> 15:09.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: But he spoke on the air, and I think it would be fair that you also speak on the air a little bit.
[15:09.460 --> 15:18.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, there's not written anywhere in any manual that says we have to give so much air time to anyone.
[15:18.260 --> 15:18.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[15:18.960 --> 15:19.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay?
[15:19.260 --> 15:19.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: How about...
[15:19.900 --> 15:22.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, I can understand what you're saying.
[15:22.280 --> 15:23.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've been with this station for a little while.
[15:23.980 --> 15:25.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, but it was...
[15:25.600 --> 15:26.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: They wanted to...
[15:26.460 --> 15:28.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: There were things that management had to say.
[15:28.340 --> 15:33.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: As you know, nothing's really been said about this from the inside for quite a while.
[15:33.580 --> 15:34.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, there's a lot to say.
[15:35.340 --> 15:36.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know, but...
[15:36.040 --> 15:36.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know?
[15:36.840 --> 15:37.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so...
[15:37.340 --> 15:40.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why the listeners do not have the...
[15:40.080 --> 15:40.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: They are not allowed to talk about it.
[15:40.960 --> 15:42.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it was time for the listeners to listen.
[15:43.660 --> 15:44.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: I see.
[15:44.520 --> 15:44.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know?
[15:45.000 --> 15:46.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's my opinion.
[15:46.260 --> 15:48.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, they don't have to contribute to the radio.
[15:48.920 --> 15:49.720]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, absolutely.
[15:49.960 --> 15:54.160]  [SPEAKER_21]: I think that, you know, it's too bad that you didn't get to say something for 12 days.
[15:54.300 --> 15:59.220]  [SPEAKER_21]: But do you have something to say now rather than just telling your story about that you have been trying for so long?
[15:59.580 --> 15:59.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[16:00.040 --> 16:03.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is why I just wanted to respond to someone.
[16:03.880 --> 16:09.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: For instance, she used all kinds of words like public vomiting, macaroon...
[16:09.840 --> 16:10.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know something?
[16:10.680 --> 16:11.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: She's here.
[16:11.360 --> 16:14.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let me see if she wants to come in and have a discussion with you.
[16:14.880 --> 16:15.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Would you like that?
[16:16.300 --> 16:16.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[16:16.740 --> 16:20.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, but they didn't have... they didn't give us time to...
[16:20.260 --> 16:21.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Did you hear what I said?
[16:21.840 --> 16:25.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: She's here, and I'll ask if she wants to come in and join the discussion.
[16:25.260 --> 16:25.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's fine.
[16:26.060 --> 16:26.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay?
[16:26.500 --> 16:26.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hold on.
[16:26.840 --> 16:27.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, carry on.
[16:27.720 --> 16:27.860]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[16:28.020 --> 16:28.220]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay.
[16:28.640 --> 16:28.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[16:29.600 --> 16:30.380]  [SPEAKER_21]: Continue, please.
[16:30.760 --> 16:31.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[16:31.680 --> 16:32.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm sorry.
[16:34.300 --> 16:35.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is Mr. Golsan here?
[16:36.500 --> 16:37.860]  [SPEAKER_21]: He has not arrived yet.
[16:38.260 --> 16:39.440]  [SPEAKER_21]: He is somewhere...
[16:39.440 --> 16:39.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, he hasn't arrived.
[16:40.120 --> 16:40.280]  [SPEAKER_21]: No.
[16:40.480 --> 16:41.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: But he's going to arrive.
[16:41.660 --> 16:42.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: I hope so.
[16:42.400 --> 16:47.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I hope so, because the same thing happened to Deepa Fernandez, for instance.
[16:47.620 --> 16:48.020]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, no, no.
[16:48.460 --> 16:48.900]  [SPEAKER_21]: He's...
[16:48.900 --> 16:51.200]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's not that he's been excommunicated or banned.
[16:51.360 --> 16:51.960]  [SPEAKER_21]: He's just missing.
[16:52.140 --> 16:52.760]  [SPEAKER_21]: He's just late.
[16:53.040 --> 16:53.320]  [SPEAKER_21]: All right.
[16:53.320 --> 16:55.740]  [SPEAKER_21]: He's probably stuck on a train like he was a couple weeks ago.
[16:55.920 --> 16:58.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are a couple of things that I wanted to say.
[16:59.140 --> 17:05.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: First of all, she said that on 22nd of December, what happened was not a coup d'etat.
[17:05.220 --> 17:06.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was a counter coup.
[17:07.020 --> 17:10.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: I wanted to give a historical analogy about that.
[17:11.120 --> 17:21.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm from Iran, and 1953, a coup d'etat happened, and the mastermind of that coup d'etat was Teddy Roosevelt.
[17:21.440 --> 17:30.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, the grandson of Teddy Roosevelt, his name was, what, now I have a...
[17:30.160 --> 17:36.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, later on, he wrote a book which was, the title was Counter Coup.
[17:38.660 --> 17:46.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: When the interim manager said that that was a counter coup, it immediately reminded me of that book.
[17:46.420 --> 17:54.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: And also, you know that in Indonesia, later on, when in 1965, they did a coup d'etat, they said it was a counter coup.
[17:54.490 --> 17:56.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think there is an analogy with this.
[17:57.620 --> 18:07.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Second, she said that the radio should not be a laissez-faire, something that whoever wants to say, whatever they can say.
[18:08.230 --> 18:12.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think she said whatever she wanted to say.
[18:12.920 --> 18:18.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: For instance, she said, those who are opposing me, they are fifth-grade students.
[18:19.400 --> 18:32.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: By that, she meant, for instance, probably Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn, and she probably is the full professor of MIT and Harvard, and those are fifth-grade students.
[18:33.460 --> 18:36.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they are not worth adversaries.
[18:36.680 --> 18:41.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: They are not, you know, she's heavyweight, and they are really lightweight.
[18:43.340 --> 18:50.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: She said that those who are opposing these firings and bannings, they are disinformation and misinformation.
[18:51.800 --> 18:56.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: And she, of course, probably is giving the correct information to the listeners.
[18:57.340 --> 19:06.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Whereas one of the listeners insisted and said, how much did you collect in the last fundraiser?
[19:06.200 --> 19:09.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: And she never gave him an answer.
[19:09.820 --> 19:12.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: But she did not give anybody.
[19:12.400 --> 19:16.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: In fact, we still don't know how much has been collected, really.
[19:16.970 --> 19:22.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: And what she has been giving us was disinformation and misinformation.
[19:22.710 --> 19:27.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: She said that these people who are opposing these firings, they are not mature enough.
[19:28.060 --> 19:30.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is silliness what they are doing.
[19:30.660 --> 19:34.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: They are making erroneous statements.
[19:35.120 --> 19:38.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: She said that this is a white fight.
[19:39.160 --> 19:40.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look at this.
[19:40.920 --> 19:45.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mr. Nieves this morning says that you have been stabbing us in the back.
[19:46.660 --> 19:48.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: What is... isn't this...
[19:48.800 --> 19:49.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
[19:50.120 --> 19:51.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're going on and on and on.
[19:51.880 --> 19:54.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we do have other listeners on the line, okay?
[19:54.340 --> 19:54.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted to say that...
[19:54.800 --> 19:58.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we do want to talk about computers and hacking and that sort of stuff.
[19:58.160 --> 19:58.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[19:58.660 --> 19:59.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right?
[19:59.320 --> 20:04.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, thanks for giving me this chance to say some of the points that you've done.
[20:04.340 --> 20:04.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: You got it.
[20:04.800 --> 20:05.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for listening.
[20:05.840 --> 20:06.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Stay tuned.
[20:06.780 --> 20:07.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks very much.
[20:10.130 --> 20:10.850]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay.
[20:11.410 --> 20:26.770]  [SPEAKER_21]: So back to computers, even though it's all sort of kind of related because it's all about seeking out knowledge and going to primary sources rather than secondary or tertiary sources for your information.
[20:27.670 --> 20:32.350]  [SPEAKER_21]: And in computers, we call that reading the source code.
[20:34.690 --> 20:41.230]  [SPEAKER_21]: And you can leave it to the... as an exercise for the listener to extrapolate that into their real life behaviors.
[20:43.330 --> 20:46.710]  [SPEAKER_21]: And let's talk about... let's talk about computer hacking.
[20:47.810 --> 20:50.050]  [SPEAKER_21]: And do you have anything to say at all?
[20:50.130 --> 20:52.090]  [SPEAKER_21]: Are you just going to listen or you just...
[20:52.090 --> 20:53.590]  [SPEAKER_21]: I mean...
[20:53.590 --> 20:55.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: Picked a bad day to come here and be silent.
[20:56.550 --> 20:58.970]  [SPEAKER_21]: There's no lurking on WVAI.
[21:01.290 --> 21:05.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: I know we did say calls, so maybe we'll take a little more calls, okay?
[21:05.870 --> 21:08.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: But let's keep it... I can keep it on hacking, folks.
[21:09.250 --> 21:11.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because this station is hacky enough.
[21:13.430 --> 21:14.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: WVAI, it's you.
[21:15.110 --> 21:15.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi there.
[21:16.050 --> 21:16.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: How you doing?
[21:17.250 --> 21:17.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good, thanks.
[21:18.310 --> 21:21.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: This has something to do with the web and the Internet.
[21:21.550 --> 21:21.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi, Patty.
[21:21.870 --> 21:22.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, hi, Patty.
[21:22.670 --> 21:22.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi.
[21:22.870 --> 21:23.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: How you doing?
[21:23.670 --> 21:23.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: How you doing, Paul?
[21:24.230 --> 21:24.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good.
[21:25.050 --> 21:26.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's good to hear your voice.
[21:26.270 --> 21:27.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, thanks.
[21:27.030 --> 21:42.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm calling because there's a group, the Coalition for a Democratic Pacifica New York, which is a listener's group that's been around for about five years, trying to help save the Pacifica Foundation from itself.
[21:42.850 --> 21:56.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that the focus, people are going to call in and talk about the issues that more education needs to be done about the Pacifica Foundation, and it's three lawsuits against it.
[21:57.090 --> 22:13.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: And what they're trying to do now on the Internet is, as the administrator of www.wbai.net, I am being sued by the Pacifica Foundation for trademark infringement.
[22:13.150 --> 22:16.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they decided they are going to go through with it.
[22:16.810 --> 22:23.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: In February, they wrote a threatening letter, and they finally have decided that, anyway, it's a verbal.
[22:23.630 --> 22:38.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: So far, it's no paperwork I haven't seen, but they spoke to my attorney, who is Paul Levy from the Public Citizen, Ralph Nader's group, citizen.org, the Citizen Litigation Group.
[22:38.570 --> 22:52.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: And Paul Levy from Public Citizen is going to be representing me and the website, as well as safepacifica.net, and also freewpfw.net.
[22:52.350 --> 23:13.010]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, this is definitely along the same lines as we've seen much of the so-called intellectual property disputes with the word sucks in domain names and supposedly confusingly similar domain names and supposedly, you know, intellectual property violations.
[23:13.010 --> 23:26.470]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, you know, the, as far as I know, the courts have upheld that this is legal and this is, it's a political, it's a form of political speech or it's a form of parody.
[23:26.930 --> 23:51.650]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, you know, I don't, certainly don't presume to give any legal advice or anything like that, but I really do have seen that in the past couple of years now, these intimidation tactics by high-paid law firms are just out to get people to give up and not fight,
[23:51.690 --> 23:56.250]  [SPEAKER_21]: and I would encourage you to fight absolutely all the way.
[23:57.110 --> 24:02.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're going to fight it because, of course, we've been lucky to have the lawyers we have.
[24:02.010 --> 24:15.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the last Internet lawsuit that Paul Levy fought was also one called alitaliasucks.com, where some man, they locked his luggage and they gave him trouble.
[24:15.430 --> 24:19.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: So he made a website, alitalia sucks, and he actually won, too.
[24:19.790 --> 24:23.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: So I think we're in good hands, but I think that's what people...
[24:23.530 --> 24:24.650]  [SPEAKER_21]: Is that Allstate?
[24:24.790 --> 24:25.070]  [SPEAKER_21]: I'm sorry.
[24:25.930 --> 24:27.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: The Italian airline?
[24:27.270 --> 24:29.310]  [SPEAKER_20]: Isn't that a copyright?
[24:29.550 --> 24:30.210]  [SPEAKER_21]: We're in good hands?
[24:30.670 --> 24:30.790]  [SPEAKER_21]: Sorry.
[24:31.490 --> 24:34.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, now they're going to come after me for that, too.
[24:34.830 --> 24:52.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I think that there are, you know, this is something that we have to look at on a national level and on a level of, you know, leveling our attacks on somewhere where it's really going to make a difference someday, and that's against the Pacifica Foundation,
[24:52.630 --> 25:01.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: who has become self-electing, has three lawsuits against it, and now they're going after the listeners and anybody that would say anything different.
[25:01.350 --> 25:06.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think this is, like, a very important issue to be discussing.
[25:06.910 --> 25:07.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Absolutely.
[25:07.810 --> 25:17.450]  [SPEAKER_21]: And I think that I would encourage you, and I, you know, I know that I've seen some of the work that you do.
[25:17.590 --> 25:35.550]  [SPEAKER_21]: I would encourage people not only to think of it nationally, but to think of it locally, because it's the local power that's being eroded even faster than the national sovereign power by the Free Trade Agreement of the Americas and the World Intellectual Property Organization and the World Bank and the,
[25:35.610 --> 25:39.270]  [SPEAKER_21]: all of the conglomerations and centralizations of power.
[25:39.730 --> 25:46.510]  [SPEAKER_21]: But if we act locally rather than nationally, it's certainly, uh...
[25:46.510 --> 25:52.430]  [SPEAKER_21]: I wanted to also talk about Emmanuel's upcoming court case, which is May 1st.
[25:52.510 --> 25:53.470]  [SPEAKER_21]: Which is next Tuesday.
[25:53.590 --> 25:55.690]  [SPEAKER_21]: Which is next Tuesday, and that's coming up.
[25:55.690 --> 25:58.370]  [SPEAKER_21]: And that is the appeals...
[25:58.370 --> 25:58.930]  [SPEAKER_21]: What is that concerning?
[25:59.070 --> 26:13.710]  [SPEAKER_21]: That concerns the appeal of his, uh, conviction, uh, and a statement by, uh, the, uh...
[26:13.710 --> 26:16.970]  [SPEAKER_21]: The, uh, you know, his lawyer, the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[26:16.990 --> 26:20.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: The Electronic Frontier Foundation is, uh, paying his legal fees.
[26:20.470 --> 26:26.770]  [SPEAKER_21]: That he's paying his legal fees and also helping to structure, uh, his defense, obviously.
[26:26.970 --> 26:30.970]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, uh, you know, that it's, you know, he's a journalist.
[26:31.590 --> 26:33.750]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, uh, he's not here to speak for himself.
[26:33.930 --> 26:35.650]  [SPEAKER_21]: He's lost on a train somewhere, apparently.
[26:36.090 --> 26:40.150]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, or abducted by the National Security Agency or something.
[26:40.810 --> 26:51.250]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh, and, uh, so he is, uh, you know, he, he lost his case against the Motion Picture, uh, Association of America, and...
[26:51.250 --> 26:51.510]  [SPEAKER_21]: The appeal, though, is...
[26:51.510 --> 26:52.230]  [SPEAKER_21]: So this is the appeal.
[26:52.430 --> 26:53.190]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's next Tuesday.
[26:53.250 --> 26:53.970]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's next Tuesday.
[26:54.290 --> 26:57.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: May 1st, uh, at the Federal Appeals Court right here in Manhattan.
[26:57.110 --> 26:57.870]  [SPEAKER_21]: Right here in Manhattan.
[26:58.410 --> 26:58.910]  [SPEAKER_21]: And so...
[26:58.910 --> 27:00.390]  [SPEAKER_20]: And the public is welcome.
[27:00.550 --> 27:02.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: It'll be about an hour long.
[27:02.730 --> 27:04.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, uh...
[27:04.510 --> 27:04.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm sorry?
[27:05.010 --> 27:05.570]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay, Patty?
[27:05.890 --> 27:07.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's another public event, too.
[27:07.950 --> 27:09.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, we gotta go, Patty.
[27:09.150 --> 27:10.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: We gotta take another caller.
[27:10.490 --> 27:10.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.
[27:10.950 --> 27:11.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[27:12.890 --> 27:13.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[27:15.150 --> 27:16.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: WBAI, it's you.
[27:16.630 --> 27:18.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi, I'm speaking of acting locally.
[27:19.270 --> 27:21.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's going to be a demonstration this Saturday.
[27:21.470 --> 27:22.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, we know.
[27:22.770 --> 27:24.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: April 28th, um, mass demonstration.
[27:24.590 --> 27:28.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, it starts at Borough Hall, in, in Brooklyn at Borough Hall.
[27:28.210 --> 27:29.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: You take almost any train.
[27:29.330 --> 27:30.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's very interesting.
[27:30.590 --> 27:32.430]  [SPEAKER_21]: I thought it was a listener support meeting.
[27:32.710 --> 27:33.210]  [SPEAKER_21]: Excuse me?
[27:33.290 --> 27:35.050]  [SPEAKER_21]: I thought it was a listener...
[27:35.050 --> 27:35.690]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, absolutely not.
[27:35.690 --> 27:42.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's very interesting that people that have a problem with what's going on here use the media here to bash the place.
[27:42.570 --> 27:42.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me?
[27:42.690 --> 27:43.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: I find, I find it.
[27:43.650 --> 27:45.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: I just said, it's very interesting that...
[27:45.650 --> 27:46.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, it's not, it's not bashing.
[27:46.370 --> 27:47.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: That they use, well...
[27:47.270 --> 27:47.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's about changes.
[27:47.810 --> 27:50.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, changes, you know, change happens, you know.
[27:50.930 --> 27:53.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: In fact, last week, Emmanuel, Emmanuel announced this.
[27:54.150 --> 27:54.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[27:54.310 --> 27:56.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: So mass demonstration at 12 o'clock, Borough Hall, Brooklyn.
[27:56.330 --> 27:59.490]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you could just let the caller, uh, announce the event.
[27:59.930 --> 28:00.390]  [SPEAKER_20]: Excuse me?
[28:00.570 --> 28:02.590]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you could just announce the event, please.
[28:03.490 --> 28:04.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: April 28th.
[28:04.490 --> 28:05.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's this Saturday?
[28:05.630 --> 28:05.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[28:06.030 --> 28:09.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: This Saturday, April 28th, 12 o'clock, 12 p.m., Borough Hall, Brooklyn.
[28:09.890 --> 28:16.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: If people want more information, they can call 800-825-0055.
[28:16.630 --> 28:19.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's 800-825-0055.
[28:19.910 --> 28:20.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[28:20.530 --> 28:20.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: Thank you.
[28:21.030 --> 28:21.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Bye.
[28:24.550 --> 28:25.590]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hi, Bia.
[28:25.690 --> 28:26.210]  [SPEAKER_21]: You're on the air.
[28:26.730 --> 28:27.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi.
[28:27.530 --> 28:28.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is Mackie.
[28:28.890 --> 28:29.470]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hey, Mackie.
[28:29.510 --> 28:29.830]  [SPEAKER_21]: What's up?
[28:30.470 --> 28:32.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, have you...
[28:32.310 --> 28:33.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: Had a few updates here?
[28:34.290 --> 28:34.950]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay.
[28:35.630 --> 28:48.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, it was reported in the Associated Press today that General Motors, or Ford specifically, is suing 2600 for, um, for a domain name.
[28:48.770 --> 28:50.810]  [SPEAKER_21]: That would be the one that rhymes with truck?
[28:51.170 --> 28:51.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[28:52.050 --> 28:52.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[28:52.570 --> 28:54.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, truckgeneralmotors.com.
[28:54.450 --> 28:54.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: Dot com.
[28:54.570 --> 28:54.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Dot com.
[28:55.190 --> 28:55.330]  [SPEAKER_21]: Right.
[28:55.730 --> 28:59.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, they had sent a cease and desist letter, I guess, in October.
[29:00.150 --> 29:05.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, uh, AP is reporting that they've gone ahead and filed a, uh, complaint in federal court.
[29:07.450 --> 29:08.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's, uh, always exciting.
[29:08.970 --> 29:09.390]  [SPEAKER_20]: More fun.
[29:09.390 --> 29:09.950]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[29:10.130 --> 29:11.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: Another, uh, domain name dispute.
[29:11.770 --> 29:13.510]  [SPEAKER_21]: Another victory for free speech.
[29:14.030 --> 29:15.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it's always, always more fun.
[29:16.010 --> 29:16.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
[29:16.650 --> 29:22.410]  [SPEAKER_20]: Do you know if this comes under the jurisdiction of, uh, WIPO, our friends at the World Intellectual Property Organization?
[29:22.630 --> 29:23.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, I'll bet it would.
[29:24.030 --> 29:30.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm actually surprised that they didn't, you know, threaten that, or that they haven't just gone to WIPO directly.
[29:31.130 --> 29:33.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: Of course, you know, it's, you know, unconfirmed.
[29:33.890 --> 29:40.070]  [SPEAKER_21]: What are they, do you know the circumstances, what, what, uh, law they're arguing that they're violating?
[29:40.350 --> 29:45.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, of course, you know, I haven't seen any complaint yet, and I haven't talked to anyone who's actually seen a complaint.
[29:45.650 --> 29:46.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, this is all kind of...
[29:46.610 --> 29:48.750]  [SPEAKER_21]: So, but this was AP reporting this today?
[29:49.070 --> 29:49.370]  [SPEAKER_21]: Mm-hmm.
[29:49.790 --> 29:51.410]  [SPEAKER_21]: This was AP reporting this today?
[29:51.710 --> 29:51.970]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[29:52.210 --> 29:52.410]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay.
[29:52.510 --> 29:53.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is the Associated Press.
[29:53.510 --> 29:55.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, it was on NandoTimes.com.
[29:56.950 --> 30:14.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, yeah, the, the cease and desist letter they sent, which is on the 2600 website, if you go back into the news archives, and go to, like, October 2000, um, it was basically just saying trademark infringement, and they didn't like, you know, their good name being,
[30:15.090 --> 30:21.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: being, uh, published in that close, you know, that close to that other word.
[30:21.470 --> 30:22.210]  [SPEAKER_21]: Ah, yes.
[30:22.570 --> 30:23.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, uh...
[30:23.430 --> 30:24.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is there any confusion that could possibly result?
[30:24.990 --> 30:32.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: And they didn't, I don't think they allege cybersquatting, which, which a lot of those types of complaints would try and throw in.
[30:33.230 --> 30:34.910]  [SPEAKER_21]: That they're alleging cybersquatting?
[30:34.970 --> 30:36.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, well, I don't think that they are in this case, which is...
[30:36.970 --> 30:44.570]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, okay, because they own every other domain that they're not using that has the word General Motors in it, with all those other nasty words.
[30:44.570 --> 30:52.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: It always struck me as odd, when, you know, you know, Verizon really sucks, and they claim cybersquatting, as if that's a domain name that they want.
[30:53.050 --> 30:53.270]  [SPEAKER_21]: Right.
[30:53.410 --> 30:54.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I mean, that never makes sense.
[30:54.150 --> 30:54.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: They do want it.
[30:54.830 --> 30:55.430]  [SPEAKER_21]: They do want it.
[30:55.510 --> 30:57.170]  [SPEAKER_21]: They want to cybersquat it themselves.
[30:57.930 --> 31:02.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, yeah, but I mean, they'd want to use, which is what the cybersquatting statute is for.
[31:02.850 --> 31:02.990]  [SPEAKER_21]: Right.
[31:03.130 --> 31:07.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, I don't think General Motors has said that yet, at least not in their cease and desist letters.
[31:07.310 --> 31:09.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: They just said trademark infringement.
[31:10.350 --> 31:21.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, I don't know, it's probably the kind of thing where if they wanted to, they could just go to WIPO, because, well, let's face it, WIPO exists for one purpose, and that's to uphold...
[31:21.830 --> 31:24.250]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's to wipe out our rights.
[31:24.710 --> 31:25.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: Exactly.
[31:26.670 --> 31:28.090]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, anything else?
[31:28.370 --> 31:31.950]  [SPEAKER_21]: Did you hear about the Russian reverse hacking thing?
[31:32.110 --> 31:34.350]  [SPEAKER_21]: Did you know any more details about that?
[31:34.570 --> 31:36.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just, you know, read a blurb.
[31:36.470 --> 31:37.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: I haven't read into that.
[31:37.750 --> 31:43.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: I can answer, you know, earlier, someone asked about Mitnick and Bernie.
[31:43.930 --> 31:44.470]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, yeah, right.
[31:44.610 --> 31:46.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Kevin does have a radio show on.
[31:47.490 --> 31:50.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's on KFI, 6.40 a.m.
[31:51.250 --> 31:52.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: on Friday evening.
[31:52.950 --> 31:54.290]  [SPEAKER_20]: Where is that station located?
[31:54.290 --> 31:55.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: In Los Angeles.
[31:55.370 --> 31:57.010]  [SPEAKER_20]: And can we pick it up on the web, also?
[31:57.170 --> 31:57.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: Do you know?
[31:57.850 --> 32:02.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's, you know, that's another interesting thing, because you used to be able to, they had a stream on the web.
[32:03.030 --> 32:03.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[32:04.230 --> 32:09.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think it's kfi640.com or something similar to that.
[32:10.010 --> 32:14.630]  [SPEAKER_21]: You can always check the MIT's listing of radio stations on the Internet and find it.
[32:14.650 --> 32:21.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: And what happened is, you know, I had emailed them and asked them why we still had to listen to advertisements.
[32:21.050 --> 32:22.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: This was months ago.
[32:22.270 --> 32:29.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Just on a whim, I asked them, why do we still have to hear advertisements even though it's on the web and you're not getting paid extra for that?
[32:29.230 --> 32:31.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: And they said, oh, well, we just can't filter them out.
[32:31.790 --> 32:37.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, they don't have the webcasting anymore because of disputes with advertisers.
[32:37.270 --> 32:44.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I've heard this has happened at lots of different radio stations, commercial radio stations, that they've had to stop streaming.
[32:44.850 --> 32:56.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: My understanding is Clear Channel Broadcasters, which owns something like 1,200 radio stations, in fact, which is more than scary in and of itself, demanded that all its stations pull their web streams a couple weeks ago.
[32:56.930 --> 32:59.090]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, I heard something about that last week, yeah.
[32:59.330 --> 33:06.450]  [SPEAKER_21]: That they demanded that all web streaming cease immediately because of rebroadcasting rights questions.
[33:08.650 --> 33:12.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: And WBAI is not owned by Clear Channel, so you can still hear us online.
[33:12.950 --> 33:15.630]  [SPEAKER_21]: And you won't hear any commercials, either online or off.
[33:15.630 --> 33:19.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, apparently that's what happened to Kevin's show.
[33:19.750 --> 33:36.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I haven't caught it yet because I'm not in Southern California, but I think he recently did a show on TECSS, and they cover those sort of issues as in-depth as you can on commercial radio, where you have to really, you know, commercial talk radio,
[33:36.790 --> 33:39.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: we have to go for a very sort of broad eighth-grade level.
[33:41.530 --> 33:52.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: Also, I heard second-hand that Emmanuel is attending to some sort of emergency that came up, and it's thus missing in action.
[33:53.350 --> 33:53.870]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay.
[33:53.970 --> 33:55.210]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, that's good to know.
[33:55.770 --> 33:55.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[33:56.490 --> 33:56.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[33:57.010 --> 33:57.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thanks.
[33:57.510 --> 33:57.930]  [SPEAKER_21]: Sure, Mikey.
[33:57.930 --> 33:57.950]  [SPEAKER_21]: Thanks.
[33:57.950 --> 33:58.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: We wish him all the best.
[33:59.430 --> 33:59.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[33:59.710 --> 33:59.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: Bye.
[34:00.390 --> 34:02.110]  [SPEAKER_20]: And just a bit of sad news.
[34:02.290 --> 34:06.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: Before we go to our next caller, Bill Gates is no longer the world's richest man.
[34:06.430 --> 34:06.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, really?
[34:06.990 --> 34:08.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: The Sunday Times in London reported.
[34:08.510 --> 34:10.370]  [SPEAKER_21]: Who surpassed him?
[34:10.830 --> 34:13.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: The guy who owns Walmart, Mr. Walton.
[34:14.250 --> 34:14.770]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, wow.
[34:15.370 --> 34:20.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: Apparently, the Microsoft stock has tanked, so...
[34:20.670 --> 34:20.990]  [SPEAKER_21]: Right.
[34:21.770 --> 34:23.630]  [SPEAKER_20]: He's only number two.
[34:23.930 --> 34:24.270]  [SPEAKER_21]: Wow.
[34:24.550 --> 34:25.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: Life is rough.
[34:25.990 --> 34:26.290]  [SPEAKER_21]: You know.
[34:26.410 --> 34:26.630]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah.
[34:26.890 --> 34:28.690]  [SPEAKER_21]: I think we, you know...
[34:28.690 --> 34:29.410]  [SPEAKER_21]: I'm heartbroken.
[34:29.710 --> 34:49.410]  [SPEAKER_21]: Bill Gates has gotten deservedly a lot of bad press, but he, you know, not much mention is made of the fact that he came back from a six-month tour of Africa and South America And the rest of the world, other than Seattle, and came to a Seattle computer conference,
[34:49.590 --> 34:55.690]  [SPEAKER_21]: which was all about getting the supposed third world wired for the Internet.
[34:56.190 --> 35:01.270]  [SPEAKER_21]: And Bill Gates came back and said, you know, they don't need computers, they need food and water.
[35:01.830 --> 35:12.850]  [SPEAKER_21]: And everybody was very upset with him because they said that he was, you know, sort of had ruined the spirit of the meeting.
[35:14.250 --> 35:25.470]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, and frankly, you know, I think that he has, you know, even though it took him a couple hundred billion dollars to sort of wake up to the fact that he was just another human being living on this planet.
[35:25.830 --> 35:37.890]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, you know, that there was, that he might have some higher calling to help other people, you know, and so, you know, if that's what it took, then that's what it took.
[35:37.890 --> 35:50.170]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, and maybe he can now turn around and, uh, now that he's the second richest man in the world, and he doesn't have to sort of maintain that, that standing, he can start giving more of his money away.
[35:50.350 --> 35:51.390]  [SPEAKER_21]: I look forward to it.
[35:51.390 --> 35:58.890]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, uh, that would be really nice, and that would be, uh, a very, very worthwhile change coming from Redmond, Washington.
[35:59.230 --> 36:04.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: We're taking your calls here at WBAI, 212-209-2900.
[36:06.510 --> 36:08.190]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, hello, you're on the air.
[36:08.850 --> 36:09.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hi, how you doing?
[36:09.770 --> 36:10.250]  [SPEAKER_21]: Good, thanks.
[36:10.290 --> 36:10.550]  [SPEAKER_21]: How are you?
[36:10.850 --> 36:12.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: All right, I got a question.
[36:12.750 --> 36:16.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, my son's, uh, 18-year-old, just turned 18 years old the other day.
[36:16.550 --> 36:17.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, he had a good question.
[36:18.350 --> 36:27.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, PC radio show always seems to be talking about privacy issues, but when somebody comes on with an idea for, like, how to happen on the phone, everybody seems to salivate.
[36:28.170 --> 36:29.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: How come that, that's the case?
[36:30.030 --> 36:31.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: There seems to be a little hypocrisy there.
[36:32.070 --> 36:33.650]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's a, that's an excellent question.
[36:34.110 --> 36:50.370]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh, that's, you know, when we talk about, uh, you know, webcasting or, you know, simulcasting a hacker's conference, that involves, you know, uh, compressed digital media, which is, you know, broadcast around the world, but they're using the same kind of compressed digital media,
[36:50.610 --> 37:06.570]  [SPEAKER_21]: uh, in the new third-generation cell phone networks that are being tested now, and also in surveillance societies like Great Britain, and they're trying to sell that here in Germany and the United States, and we have to, you know, this, it's certainly a delicate balance between,
[37:06.570 --> 37:22.030]  [SPEAKER_21]: uh, using technology to communicate with people, uh, uh, and using the same technology to spy on people, and, uh, and it's the people who are gonna, you know, the people who are controlling the networks, and the people who are controlling the cameras and controlling the microphones,
[37:22.830 --> 37:41.090]  [SPEAKER_21]: uh, you know, that, you know, there is, uh, you know, it's the old question, who watches the watchers, you know, uh, at what point does your observation of someone, be they police doing their job, Or be it, you know, someone committing a crime, at what point does that become,
[37:41.430 --> 37:51.210]  [SPEAKER_21]: does that cross over into voyeurism and pseudo-pornography and just, you know, for sick thrills like the reality shows that are now all the rage on television.
[37:51.590 --> 38:01.270]  [SPEAKER_21]: And I think that that's definitely, you know, it's something, it's an ethical question and, you know, it has many ramifications.
[38:03.130 --> 38:06.270]  [SPEAKER_21]: Technology is, you know, most, you know, computers are tools.
[38:06.530 --> 38:12.690]  [SPEAKER_21]: They can be programmed to do things, you know, and that help people or hinder them.
[38:13.230 --> 38:15.350]  [SPEAKER_21]: And I think that that's an excellent question.
[38:15.490 --> 38:16.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, look at the other show previously.
[38:16.970 --> 38:19.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was on Ex-Bray Witness about Vince Forster.
[38:19.710 --> 38:20.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, absolutely.
[38:20.130 --> 38:24.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: And how they use forensics in order to, like, hide the truth from the public.
[38:24.190 --> 38:24.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely.
[38:24.830 --> 38:29.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I mean, and at the same time, you know, I've been listening to the WBI for about 30 years.
[38:29.290 --> 38:31.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: I hate to date myself, but I've been listening to it.
[38:31.270 --> 38:42.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: And from when I was a teenager, and I remember being very impressed by the station having leftist point of views, right-wing point of views, every end of the spectrum.
[38:42.230 --> 38:55.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I just noticed that, you know, with all this stuff, trouble going on at the Pacifica, I see that the station has been more, like, coalesced into a leftist organization rather than really a free speech, you know, outlet.
[38:56.250 --> 38:56.770]  [SPEAKER_21]: Absolutely.
[38:57.430 --> 38:57.730]  [SPEAKER_21]: Absolutely.
[38:57.730 --> 39:01.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's frightening, because I think it was a great station 30 years ago.
[39:01.850 --> 39:03.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not so great no more.
[39:03.670 --> 39:11.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'd like to see a return to that kind of period of time when you had all kinds of points of view, all kinds of music played.
[39:11.570 --> 39:15.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: I remember, I think I remember even George Carlin being on WBAI.
[39:15.450 --> 39:18.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, boy, we went through some mess behind that one.
[39:18.770 --> 39:19.690]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's, yeah.
[39:20.090 --> 39:20.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's very true.
[39:20.810 --> 39:21.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: William F.
[39:21.230 --> 39:22.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: Buckley used to have a show here.
[39:22.290 --> 39:25.170]  [SPEAKER_21]: I think that it's absolutely right.
[39:25.370 --> 39:46.030]  [SPEAKER_21]: I think that, you know, I listened to James Lawson this morning on Democracy Now!, and, you know, I think that he is, you know, speaking to, that it's not about left or right, and it's really about speaking, letting everybody have a chance to have their voice heard.
[39:46.030 --> 40:12.030]  [SPEAKER_21]: And I think that the sort of, what's the word, the conflict of, not conflict, but the, you know, the contradiction of people screaming free speech with one, you know, out of their mouths, and then keeping people away from the microphones is quite another thing.
[40:12.030 --> 40:32.190]  [SPEAKER_21]: And it goes on in left and the right, and, you know, I see that it's like, you know, it's something that I've seen also, you know, not to disparage them, but with the independent media center popping up all over the world, that they, you know, they're having trouble separating their editorial content from the facts,
[40:32.190 --> 40:37.570]  [SPEAKER_21]: and that they're criticizing the mainstream media for reporting what the corporations want them to say.
[40:38.290 --> 40:42.950]  [SPEAKER_21]: But then they're going right ahead and saying what they feel, rather than...
[40:42.950 --> 40:42.950]  That's a trend.
[40:42.970 --> 40:43.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: That definitely is a trend.
[40:44.410 --> 40:54.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: Me and a group of people formed a group called New York Workers Rights Alliance in order to try to get, like, municipal unions to be more democratic with their membership.
[40:55.550 --> 41:00.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we've been meeting every 75 Greenwich Street on Wednesdays at 7 o'clock.
[41:00.970 --> 41:01.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anybody's welcome to come.
[41:02.170 --> 41:03.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, it's 6 o'clock.
[41:03.630 --> 41:07.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the whole issue is to push the unions into being open and honest.
[41:07.590 --> 41:09.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: And right now, there's a very big issue.
[41:09.270 --> 41:12.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: We've got a new contract proposed, and it looks very good to many people.
[41:12.950 --> 41:19.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I'm trying to get them to use computers to relate it to the computer issues, try to get computers in order to communicate.
[41:19.070 --> 41:23.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Workers are very disenfranchised and very segmented throughout the city.
[41:23.350 --> 41:24.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's very little communication.
[41:25.030 --> 41:31.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm trying to see if there's a way of getting chat sites or something going so that workers could be in communication.
[41:31.030 --> 41:34.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, you go a whole day working, you don't even discuss the contract.
[41:34.650 --> 41:36.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's that alienated from each other.
[41:36.810 --> 41:48.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, so, I mean, I just think the whole concept of democratic principles, especially unions now, if you follow what's going on, then Bob Fitch is a good spokesperson for this type of thing.
[41:48.450 --> 41:54.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: You see, the unions are basically power blocks, just like groups you were talking about before.
[41:54.250 --> 41:54.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Absolutely.
[41:54.570 --> 41:58.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, the government agencies that sort of rough ride over everybody's freedom.
[41:58.650 --> 42:04.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: And any more kind of groups that are from the grassroots level up in order to put...
[42:04.250 --> 42:06.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I was wondering, how do I get on WBAI?
[42:06.710 --> 42:11.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: How would I get, like, a program, me and my group maybe have, like, a forum on WBAI?
[42:11.630 --> 42:13.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: How does that process take place?
[42:13.270 --> 42:19.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I never heard anyone say producers can send in their names and go on a list or anything, like, to be producers.
[42:19.830 --> 42:22.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: How does one become a segment producer in WBAI?
[42:22.610 --> 42:36.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, if I may answer that, what you should do is write a proposal up, very clear, very concise, and send it to Jabelle Fye, D-I-A-B-E-L-F-A-Y-E.
[42:36.650 --> 42:41.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and understand that nothing is really being considered programming-wise until after the marathon.
[42:41.990 --> 42:43.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, and that'll be around June, July.
[42:44.570 --> 42:51.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, and as we are in a bit of change right now, as you all know, we're working on getting a program director.
[42:51.850 --> 42:57.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a job we need filled, and that'll be filled, hopefully, during the summer coming up.
[42:57.870 --> 43:01.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we will be looking, probably, for new programs and other programs.
[43:01.430 --> 43:04.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: We are definitely looking in the labor segment.
[43:05.390 --> 43:17.430]  [SPEAKER_03]: So definitely, like I said, draw up a program, draw up your idea as a proposal, make it really, really clear and concise, and send it off to Jabelle and see what happens.
[43:17.590 --> 43:18.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's great.
[43:18.130 --> 43:19.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks a lot for your time.
[43:19.170 --> 43:19.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: I appreciate it.
[43:19.510 --> 43:20.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, thank you very much.
[43:20.070 --> 43:20.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks for listening.
[43:20.810 --> 43:20.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[43:21.250 --> 43:22.890]  [SPEAKER_20]: This is WBAI in New York.
[43:22.890 --> 43:31.310]  [SPEAKER_20]: As some of the listeners may know, there used to be a program on this station about labor issues, which is no longer on the air.
[43:33.490 --> 43:35.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: And we're taking your calls here.
[43:35.670 --> 43:39.190]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, I just wanted to speak just for one second about
[43:43.480 --> 43:45.640]  [SPEAKER_21]: democracy.
[43:45.740 --> 43:54.460]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's a process, and it involves educating yourself, not waiting for someone to tell you what to do.
[43:54.460 --> 44:00.920]  [SPEAKER_21]: And it involves going and seeking out facts and speaking your mind and speaking to people.
[44:00.980 --> 44:17.740]  [SPEAKER_21]: And it's a messy process because people will disagree with you constantly and frequently, and you'll have to talk with them, and you'll have to come to some sort of, you know, like not an arrangement, but some sort of an agreement, some sort of understanding of each other's point of views.
[44:17.740 --> 44:29.460]  [SPEAKER_21]: And that is, you know, ostensibly how the political process works, and it's ostensibly how, you know, the radio station is functioning, you know.
[44:29.600 --> 44:36.760]  [SPEAKER_21]: And if we don't get to, you know, put every listener on the air and have them hear everything, well, we're sorry about that.
[44:36.760 --> 44:59.020]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, you know, there are certain things that, sitting here in the studio, we can't speak of either right now because of these sort of transitional measures that are in place, you know, very much, you know, like the fence around Canada to preserve democracy.
[45:00.720 --> 45:02.320]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, you want to take that?
[45:02.460 --> 45:04.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: I will try taking your calls if we hang up on someone.
[45:05.200 --> 45:05.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sorry.
[45:05.440 --> 45:05.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: I apologize.
[45:07.400 --> 45:08.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, hello, you're on the air.
[45:09.780 --> 45:11.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: I really have nothing better to say, so...
[45:15.400 --> 45:15.920]  [SPEAKER_21]: All right.
[45:16.580 --> 45:17.520]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's very clever.
[45:20.520 --> 45:22.260]  [SPEAKER_21]: Glad you caught up to 1997.
[45:28.280 --> 45:28.680]  Hello.
[45:32.560 --> 45:33.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, how are you?
[45:33.480 --> 45:33.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Good.
[45:33.660 --> 45:42.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, first of all, about 15 or 20 minutes ago, you went to get Utrese so that she would participate in a fair and open debate.
[45:42.820 --> 45:44.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'd like to know why she didn't come to the phone.
[45:44.940 --> 45:47.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, we can't speak for her.
[45:47.660 --> 45:47.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[45:48.260 --> 45:49.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, did you speak to her?
[45:49.600 --> 45:49.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I wouldn't.
[45:49.680 --> 45:49.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[45:49.740 --> 45:50.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: You said you were going to go get her.
[45:51.180 --> 45:52.080]  [SPEAKER_21]: Did she say no?
[45:52.340 --> 45:52.780]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hold on.
[45:53.280 --> 45:55.140]  [SPEAKER_21]: We'll let the person who did that answer.
[45:55.140 --> 45:59.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, this is a program about hacking, and that's where we should be at.
[45:59.200 --> 46:00.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I don't think so.
[46:00.320 --> 46:01.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, what you think...
[46:01.680 --> 46:02.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I'd like to say some other things.
[46:02.620 --> 46:04.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're welcome to what you think.
[46:04.360 --> 46:05.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to...
[46:05.120 --> 46:05.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's where it's at.
[46:05.780 --> 46:05.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well...
[46:05.980 --> 46:06.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you want to...
[46:06.520 --> 46:07.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, you answered that question.
[46:07.760 --> 46:08.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now can I go on?
[46:08.560 --> 46:12.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you want to express your opinion, that's fine, but please let's not attack anybody.
[46:13.600 --> 46:14.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Is that okay with you?
[46:14.900 --> 46:16.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is that an attack that I asked...
[46:16.360 --> 46:17.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm just...
[46:17.780 --> 46:18.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[46:18.640 --> 46:19.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Make your point, please.
[46:20.260 --> 46:34.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, my next point is I think whoever said that people were using the station to bash it by calling in and talking about the situation is either completely disingenuous or quite foolish, and...
[46:34.040 --> 46:34.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: I said that.
[46:34.860 --> 46:35.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: My name is Paul Williams.
[46:35.820 --> 46:37.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm either disingenuous or foolish.
[46:37.800 --> 46:38.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[46:39.300 --> 46:39.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[46:39.800 --> 46:40.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Paul Williams.
[46:40.900 --> 46:42.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, Paul Williams.
[46:42.080 --> 46:42.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[46:42.400 --> 46:50.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that you should be aware that there are very few shows on the station that allow people to talk about this.
[46:50.740 --> 46:52.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: You'll get cut off in a microsecond.
[46:52.320 --> 46:53.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Have you been cut off, sir?
[46:53.680 --> 46:54.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I have.
[46:54.660 --> 46:56.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you're not being cut off now.
[46:56.400 --> 46:57.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[46:57.120 --> 46:57.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right?
[46:57.520 --> 46:59.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I've heard many people talking about...
[46:59.620 --> 47:00.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: I need you to make that observation.
[47:00.380 --> 47:00.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Excuse me.
[47:00.960 --> 47:02.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'd like to go on to some factual material.
[47:02.360 --> 47:08.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: I've heard many people talk about things here, okay, and we do have policies that we have to abide by.
[47:08.480 --> 47:09.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, that's...
[47:09.400 --> 47:10.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me.
[47:10.200 --> 47:11.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's bureaucratic...
[47:11.160 --> 47:11.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me.
[47:11.800 --> 47:13.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have policies on your job, right?
[47:13.700 --> 47:14.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's good for corporate hats.
[47:14.860 --> 47:15.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have...
[47:15.300 --> 47:17.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Trying to explain their undefensible position.
[47:17.520 --> 47:18.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: See, name-calling.
[47:18.580 --> 47:19.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not calling any names.
[47:19.480 --> 47:20.340]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have...
[47:20.340 --> 47:21.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't you have policies...
[47:21.940 --> 47:23.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't you have policies on your job, sir?
[47:24.260 --> 47:25.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm self-employed, thank God.
[47:25.560 --> 47:26.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, good for you.
[47:26.680 --> 47:28.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: But most of us...
[47:28.000 --> 47:29.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: Most of us...
[47:29.160 --> 47:29.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I understand that.
[47:29.780 --> 47:33.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Most of us work for some of us and we have policies that we have to abide by.
[47:33.280 --> 47:36.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I quit jobs because I was asked to do things that...
[47:36.260 --> 47:38.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: The majority of us can't do that, sir.
[47:38.380 --> 47:39.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: I quit my job.
[47:39.640 --> 47:39.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[47:40.160 --> 47:42.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: I had a job with IT&T World Communications.
[47:42.700 --> 47:44.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Excuse me, IT&T World Communications.
[47:45.380 --> 47:47.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: I quit that job as a matter of principle.
[47:47.440 --> 47:47.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, good.
[47:48.180 --> 47:48.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm glad.
[47:48.760 --> 47:49.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Many of us would starve.
[47:49.520 --> 47:52.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: There were people there at the station who have no principles, and I think there were some that...
[47:52.900 --> 47:55.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, there are many outside who have no principles as well.
[47:55.420 --> 47:55.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Pardon me?
[47:55.880 --> 47:56.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've listened to the station for 38 years.
[47:56.140 --> 47:57.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: I said there are many outside who have no principles.
[47:58.180 --> 47:58.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the guy who...
[47:58.900 --> 47:59.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[47:59.840 --> 48:00.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good for you.
[48:01.100 --> 48:05.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I was going to use that to illustrate a point, but I don't think you want to hear it.
[48:05.140 --> 48:05.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please make your point.
[48:05.820 --> 48:06.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're very good at making comments.
[48:06.700 --> 48:07.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you could...
[48:07.160 --> 48:07.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you could...
[48:07.480 --> 48:09.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'll not allow people to finish what they're saying.
[48:09.460 --> 48:10.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you could...
[48:10.020 --> 48:10.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Please make your...
[48:10.520 --> 48:11.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't want to hear what they're saying.
[48:11.620 --> 48:14.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sir, if you could please make your point and we won't interrupt you.
[48:14.800 --> 48:18.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, in my opinion, I think that...
[48:19.100 --> 48:28.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that it's fair to call up and criticize what's been going on, because what's been going on has abrogated the principles upon which the station was built.
[48:28.720 --> 48:35.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I have been listening for 38 years, and there were a lot of myths being perpetuated by the current coupmeisters who were there.
[48:35.940 --> 48:39.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I heard them say that the station was segregated in the 60s.
[48:39.340 --> 48:49.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I listened to a lot of shows by people of all types, and that was a complete lie.
[48:49.680 --> 48:54.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I heard you, Therese, talk about baby boomers whose parents gave them stocks.
[48:55.020 --> 48:56.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, who's she talking about?
[48:56.820 --> 48:57.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Amy Goodman?
[48:58.080 --> 49:02.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I mean, it's so obvious to me that she acts as...
[49:02.680 --> 49:05.460]  [SPEAKER_20]: If we could refrain from personal attacks on her.
[49:06.520 --> 49:07.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sir, can you make your point?
[49:07.800 --> 49:11.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Because other people want to call, people are calling in, they would like to make...
[49:11.240 --> 49:12.620]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, it's not that we don't want to hear it.
[49:12.740 --> 49:15.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sir, if I didn't want to hear it, all I would do is push a button.
[49:15.400 --> 49:16.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and it's...
[49:16.200 --> 49:16.720]  [SPEAKER_03]: And you'd be in the ether.
[49:17.040 --> 49:17.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Like the...
[49:17.540 --> 49:18.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so please.
[49:18.260 --> 49:19.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, you're powerful.
[49:19.200 --> 49:19.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: He's back.
[49:19.540 --> 49:20.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, it's not...
[49:20.100 --> 49:21.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're acting disrespectful.
[49:21.940 --> 49:23.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, you're the one that's being disrespectful.
[49:23.720 --> 49:24.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Am I being disrespectful?
[49:24.200 --> 49:25.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, that's not...
[49:25.080 --> 49:25.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's not it.
[49:26.560 --> 49:31.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: You said that the person was bashing the station by calling in and wanting to talk about the situation.
[49:31.380 --> 49:32.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think you're...
[49:32.840 --> 49:35.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: By making an announcement that I feel...
[49:35.020 --> 49:38.560]  [SPEAKER_21]: Don't lump us all into one thing, because there's at least four people in this room.
[49:39.080 --> 49:40.580]  [SPEAKER_21]: Although one of them won't say anything.
[49:40.580 --> 49:40.620]  [SPEAKER_21]: I wouldn't say anything.
[49:40.780 --> 49:43.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: I wouldn't say anything, by the way, because I think we have a point of view on this as well.
[49:45.080 --> 49:47.420]  [SPEAKER_21]: Look, Utrese didn't want to come on the air, okay?
[49:47.420 --> 49:47.660]  [SPEAKER_21]: Why?
[49:47.760 --> 49:49.700]  [SPEAKER_21]: Because this is a computer hacking show.
[49:49.800 --> 49:50.640]  [SPEAKER_21]: Right, it's a hacking show.
[49:51.020 --> 49:51.680]  [SPEAKER_21]: And if you want to...
[49:51.680 --> 49:56.760]  [SPEAKER_21]: Look, the caller was talking about the talkback show, which I heard.
[49:56.900 --> 49:57.360]  [SPEAKER_21]: Let her show the responsibility.
[49:57.460 --> 50:00.840]  [SPEAKER_21]: Right, and so why don't they call during that producer's hour?
[50:02.280 --> 50:03.260]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, sorry about that.
[50:03.640 --> 50:04.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, please, please, please.
[50:04.740 --> 50:07.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: We do appreciate the points that were trying to be made.
[50:07.840 --> 50:10.220]  [SPEAKER_21]: But the personal attacks are not getting anywhere.
[50:10.440 --> 50:14.660]  [SPEAKER_21]: And look, you know, there are things going on around here that are probably very wrong.
[50:15.060 --> 50:18.400]  [SPEAKER_21]: And personal attacks will not bring those facts to light.
[50:18.520 --> 50:21.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: And as well, there are many things going on here that are very right.
[50:22.080 --> 50:22.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that's true.
[50:23.060 --> 50:26.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: There have been major changes, without a doubt, and major changes in a positive way.
[50:26.700 --> 50:33.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: And many out there know that has happened, and unfortunately, there are some that don't.
[50:33.880 --> 50:34.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that's okay.
[50:35.880 --> 50:36.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Time will tell.
[50:37.020 --> 50:37.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Got to give things time.
[50:39.300 --> 50:40.160]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right, gentlemen.
[50:40.440 --> 50:41.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: We can take a couple more.
[50:41.620 --> 50:42.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're running out of time.
[50:42.520 --> 50:42.720]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[50:42.860 --> 50:44.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: We can take a couple more calls.
[50:45.000 --> 50:45.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: And then...
[50:45.620 --> 50:48.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: The number again, 212-209-2900.
[50:48.980 --> 50:49.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hi, you're on the air.
[50:53.260 --> 50:54.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have a question.
[50:55.000 --> 50:55.420]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh-huh.
[50:56.880 --> 51:01.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: You truly had a report to the listener of last week.
[51:01.440 --> 51:03.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we've been over this ground before, sir.
[51:03.580 --> 51:05.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: She's not here.
[51:05.000 --> 51:06.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: She can't answer your question.
[51:07.480 --> 51:10.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why didn't she mention anything about John Murdoch?
[51:11.980 --> 51:13.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: She's not here to answer your question.
[51:14.140 --> 51:14.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't know.
[51:14.920 --> 51:17.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please relay the question to her.
[51:17.160 --> 51:17.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[51:17.760 --> 51:18.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Very good, sir.
[51:18.740 --> 51:19.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you very much.
[51:20.220 --> 51:28.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why hasn't she mentioned anything about John Murdoch rewriting the bylaws or attempting to rewrite the bylaws?
[51:28.500 --> 51:29.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Who...
[51:29.000 --> 51:31.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you've seen the bylaws, sir...
[51:31.120 --> 51:34.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Without a majority vote of the board members of the station.
[51:34.960 --> 51:40.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you've seen a draft of the bylaws, at the top, it says, For the widest possible distribution.
[51:40.660 --> 51:41.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay?
[51:41.340 --> 51:42.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we'll move on.
[51:42.760 --> 51:43.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[51:43.100 --> 51:44.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: For the widest possible distribution.
[51:44.400 --> 51:44.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, sir.
[51:45.700 --> 51:45.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right.
[51:46.060 --> 51:49.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: John Murdoch, of course, is a lawyer for the...
[51:49.040 --> 51:50.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: The firm of Epstein, Becker, and Green.
[52:00.720 --> 52:02.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: The staff, I don't receive memos.
[52:02.540 --> 52:07.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: I can only infer the policies from the times I've been here doing other shows.
[52:07.200 --> 52:09.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sir, or is there not a gag rule?
[52:09.220 --> 52:12.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sir, there is a policy in which we do not discuss internal matters on the air.
[52:13.120 --> 52:13.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Come on, you sound...
[52:13.540 --> 52:14.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: We try to work on these issues.
[52:14.800 --> 52:15.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: You sound like an answering service.
[52:15.920 --> 52:16.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me.
[52:16.820 --> 52:17.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Excuse me.
[52:17.540 --> 52:18.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not being rude to you.
[52:18.540 --> 52:19.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're being very rude to me.
[52:19.880 --> 52:21.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: I do not appreciate your rudeness.
[52:21.600 --> 52:22.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Why don't you tell us what's on your mind?
[52:22.960 --> 52:24.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: You took the time to call, obviously.
[52:24.720 --> 52:25.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[52:25.900 --> 52:30.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: What I want to say is, whatever you have to say, say it.
[52:31.440 --> 52:33.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: People on the weekends say it.
[52:33.780 --> 52:36.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: I listen to the jazz show in the morning.
[52:36.960 --> 52:38.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: He says what he feels.
[52:38.760 --> 52:39.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: No repercussion.
[52:40.840 --> 52:42.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Say what you have to say.
[52:42.380 --> 52:43.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Stand up for it.
[52:43.460 --> 52:44.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: We do.
[52:44.480 --> 52:45.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's all I have to say.
[52:45.600 --> 52:45.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you.
[52:46.060 --> 52:47.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because other people who stand up, they give respect.
[52:48.180 --> 52:48.920]  [SPEAKER_21]: Thank you for that.
[52:49.100 --> 52:49.320]  [SPEAKER_21]: Thank you.
[52:51.020 --> 52:51.940]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hi, you're on the air.
[52:57.300 --> 52:57.740]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hello?
[53:00.240 --> 53:00.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Sorry.
[53:00.940 --> 53:01.600]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hi, you're on the air.
[53:01.740 --> 53:02.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Too weird.
[53:03.040 --> 53:03.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oops, lost.
[53:04.420 --> 53:05.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: People, there we go.
[53:06.260 --> 53:06.680]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hi.
[53:07.240 --> 53:07.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's you.
[53:07.920 --> 53:11.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'd like to talk about computers and phones instead of these...
[53:11.160 --> 53:11.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[53:12.060 --> 53:14.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do you remember when life wasn't annoying?
[53:15.600 --> 53:16.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[53:16.360 --> 53:17.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't, actually.
[53:18.160 --> 53:18.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[53:19.380 --> 53:23.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: When you used to be able to call somebody and not have to hear, we're sorry...
[53:23.760 --> 53:25.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: We have only a couple minutes left.
[53:25.800 --> 53:25.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[53:26.180 --> 53:26.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Quickly.
[53:26.900 --> 53:27.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're sorry.
[53:27.900 --> 53:30.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: The person you called does not accept anonymous calls.
[53:30.400 --> 53:31.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know how the call...
[53:31.480 --> 53:34.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: The call anonymous call rejection feature works?
[53:35.520 --> 53:36.380]  [SPEAKER_21]: Sort of, yeah.
[53:36.720 --> 53:36.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[53:37.200 --> 53:38.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Isn't it annoying?
[53:38.980 --> 53:39.880]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, I agree.
[53:40.060 --> 53:45.420]  [SPEAKER_21]: It's the fact that people don't accept anonymous calls because they want to see who's calling them.
[53:45.420 --> 53:47.520]  [SPEAKER_21]: And, you know, that's a personal choice.
[53:48.320 --> 53:55.300]  [SPEAKER_21]: Apparently, you know, I don't know what the, you know, it's, you know, it's bad.
[53:55.300 --> 53:57.220]  [SPEAKER_21]: You can't make prank phone calls that way anymore.
[53:57.320 --> 54:02.240]  [SPEAKER_21]: But you can always call from a payphone if you need to call somebody anonymously.
[54:02.420 --> 54:03.660]  [SPEAKER_21]: Although they're taking those away.
[54:03.660 --> 54:13.400]  [SPEAKER_21]: So, you know, maybe you can get one of those cell phones that they sell, you know, they sell you a whole cell phone with a couple hours worth of, like, a calling card built into it.
[54:13.500 --> 54:16.040]  [SPEAKER_21]: And then when the cell phone runs out, you just throw it away.
[54:17.440 --> 54:18.700]  [SPEAKER_21]: Disposable technology at its finest.
[54:18.960 --> 54:19.520]  [SPEAKER_21]: Is that a prepaid kind of thing?
[54:19.540 --> 54:20.860]  [SPEAKER_21]: Yeah, it's like a prepaid cell phone.
[54:23.040 --> 54:24.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello, you mentioned about payphones.
[54:25.020 --> 54:30.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Some of these private payphones, the call, the number is blocked.
[54:30.660 --> 54:36.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, therefore, when you call somebody with anonymous call rejection, you get that message saying they will not accept your call.
[54:36.520 --> 54:38.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: But you lose your money in some of these phones.
[54:38.680 --> 54:40.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: And there's no way to, like, unblock it.
[54:40.640 --> 54:42.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: You see, that's my point of view.
[54:42.060 --> 54:53.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: An interesting point was brought to my attention the other week, that a lot of the payphone, sometimes you'll see, like, a booth for a payphone without a payphone in it around the city.
[54:53.940 --> 54:54.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: Often.
[54:54.740 --> 54:56.340]  [SPEAKER_21]: More often than not nowadays.
[54:56.560 --> 54:56.620]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[54:56.820 --> 54:58.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: The reason it was indicated...
[54:59.780 --> 55:00.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm sorry?
[55:01.260 --> 55:04.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Using a regular payphone is annoying, too, because...
[55:04.040 --> 55:07.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: If you could, please, let me explain this.
[55:07.460 --> 55:07.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[55:07.640 --> 55:19.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: Um, the payphone company, Verizon, um, makes a lot more money off the ads surrounding the payphone booth than they do, uh, with the actual payphone inside it.
[55:20.320 --> 55:25.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: But they're required to put the booth and, eventually, the phone there, but...
[55:25.320 --> 55:30.560]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, so they're just using the booth for the advertising revenue until they bother to put a phone in there?
[55:30.560 --> 55:31.540]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's what they're up to.
[55:31.660 --> 55:31.820]  [SPEAKER_21]: Wow.
[55:32.000 --> 55:34.940]  [SPEAKER_21]: That's what they're doing with, uh, with the residential stuff.
[55:34.940 --> 55:58.100]  [SPEAKER_21]: And also with the, with the way that, uh, the DSL market has been decimated by, uh, Verizon here in New York City and the surrounding areas, uh, and they are absolutely threatening, uh, the communications infrastructure of the United States, which is,
[55:58.400 --> 56:06.760]  [SPEAKER_21]: uh, you know, will bring them to the attention of, of certain federal agencies, uh, we're, we're, we're out of time for this evening.
[56:06.880 --> 56:07.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, yeah, we're out of time.
[56:07.600 --> 56:10.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, Tahrir is next, and at 10 o'clock...
[56:10.860 --> 56:11.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's only 8.55!
[56:12.620 --> 56:14.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's when the show's end now.
[56:14.540 --> 56:16.100]  [SPEAKER_20]: All shows end at...
[56:16.100 --> 56:16.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: All shows end at...
[56:16.200 --> 56:16.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: ...55 minutes long.
[56:17.020 --> 56:18.920]  [SPEAKER_21]: All shows end at five minutes before the hour.
[56:19.240 --> 56:20.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, Tahrir is next.
[56:20.580 --> 56:21.060]  [SPEAKER_20]: Tahrir.
[56:21.200 --> 56:21.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: Tahrir.
[56:21.680 --> 56:21.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: Tahrir.
[56:22.080 --> 56:22.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Sorry.
[56:22.460 --> 56:22.740]  [SPEAKER_20]: There you go.
[56:23.280 --> 56:26.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: And then we will hear the comic book show at 10 o'clock.
[56:26.580 --> 56:31.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, this is WBAI 99.5, and we thank you for bearing with us.
[56:31.440 --> 56:32.860]  [SPEAKER_20]: Thank you for, uh...
[56:32.860 --> 56:37.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: And hopefully Emmanuel will be back next week with an update on his court case.
[56:37.740 --> 56:39.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: And thanks, guys, for an interesting program.
[56:39.760 --> 56:40.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, Paul.
[56:40.180 --> 56:41.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: An enjoyable program, too.
[56:41.640 --> 56:41.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thanks a lot.
[56:42.000 --> 56:43.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: And thank all the, uh, listeners and callers.
[56:43.820 --> 56:46.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is WBAI in New York.
[56:52.750 --> 56:54.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: The Palestinian reality?
[56:54.890 --> 56:57.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: What's really happening in the Muslim lands?
[56:57.710 --> 57:00.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: A new memoir by Professor Leila Ahmed?
[57:00.190 --> 57:04.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or Muslim political candidates in the USA?
[57:04.770 --> 57:12.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: These and more are questions you can hear discussed on Tahrir, WBAI's magazine of the Arab Muslim community.
[57:13.050 --> 57:13.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: Marhaba.
[57:14.030 --> 57:21.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm Barbara Numeri-Aziz, and I'd like you to join me and our Tahrir staff every Tuesday night at 9 o'clock.
[57:21.530 --> 57:24.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's Tuesdays from 9 to 10 p.m.
[57:24.670 --> 57:30.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: here on listener-sponsored WBAI 99.5 FM in New York.
[57:30.350 --> 57:34.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're sure to find something new and sometimes controversy.
[57:46.710 --> 57:50.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: Greetings from the Atlantica radio empire with a friendly warning.
[57:50.670 --> 57:55.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: A dangerous new radio empire is taking over other radio empires by surprise.
[57:56.590 --> 57:57.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: By surprise?
[57:58.230 --> 57:59.550]  [SPEAKER_19]: That doesn't seem fair.
[57:59.910 --> 58:00.910]  [SPEAKER_19]: It isn't fair.
[58:01.110 --> 58:01.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: Huh?
[58:01.510 --> 58:07.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Unlike normal radio empires that favor peace or war, this dangerous new radio empire favors Bedlam.
[58:08.110 --> 58:11.730]  [SPEAKER_19]: What is the name of this dangerous new radio empire that favors Bedlam?
[58:11.950 --> 58:17.090]  [SPEAKER_19]: The name of this dangerous new radio empire that favors Bedlam is Psychotica.
[58:17.610 --> 58:18.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: Psychotica?
[58:18.270 --> 58:21.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes, the Psychotica Radio Empire.
[58:21.830 --> 58:22.950]  [SPEAKER_19]: That sounds crazy.
[58:23.290 --> 58:23.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: It is.
[58:24.370 --> 58:24.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Boing.
[58:24.930 --> 58:25.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: Boing.
[58:25.410 --> 58:25.830]  [SPEAKER_19]: Boing.
[58:26.270 --> 58:26.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: Boing.
[58:27.210 --> 58:32.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Beware of the danger signs that Bedlam-loving Psychotica has invaded your radio empire.
[58:32.750 --> 58:34.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: What are the danger signs?
[58:34.690 --> 58:38.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: Are you asked to choose between being a Quizzling or a Scab?
[58:38.530 --> 58:41.210]  [SPEAKER_19]: Is there a difference between a Quizzling and a Scab?
[58:41.370 --> 58:44.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: A Quizzling fails to keep his loyalties up to date.
[58:44.690 --> 58:46.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: A Scab can be neutral.
[58:46.190 --> 58:49.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: What can we do to protect ourselves from Psychotica?
[58:49.910 --> 58:52.450]  [SPEAKER_19]: Atlantica will protect you from Psychotica.
[58:52.550 --> 58:53.350]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, good.
[58:53.770 --> 58:56.450]  [SPEAKER_19]: As long as you are not banned by Atlantica.
[58:56.550 --> 58:57.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, no.
[58:57.050 --> 58:59.690]  [SPEAKER_19]: How can I avoid being banned by Atlantica?
[58:59.910 --> 59:04.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: To avoid being banned by Atlantica, do not listen to this tone.
[59:05.570 --> 59:10.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Those who disobeyed a direct order by Atlantica not to listen to the tone are now banned.
[59:10.750 --> 59:11.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, no.
[59:13.130 --> 59:14.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you, Atlantica.
[59:55.000 --> 01:00:06.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: On Saturday, May 19th at 6.30pm, as part of Mega Evers College's 30th Anniversary Celebration, the Student Government Association, the People of the Sun...