Off The Hook - 2001-06-26

[00:01.170 --> 00:03.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, we never got the recognition.
[00:03.750 --> 00:04.530]  [SPEAKER_01]: As a matter of fact...
[00:04.530 --> 00:05.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, they didn't get the recognition.
[00:05.650 --> 00:07.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: They got the negative recognition.
[00:07.590 --> 00:08.810]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, nobody wanted you guys to do that.
[00:08.810 --> 00:15.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: As a matter of fact, the people that did get an award later on were the people on the second half using the witnesses that we indicted on the first half.
[00:16.010 --> 00:17.030]  [SPEAKER_19]: We're out of time, guys.
[00:17.690 --> 00:18.970]  [SPEAKER_19]: Shooting the Moon is the book.
[00:19.090 --> 00:20.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: David Harris is the author.
[00:20.450 --> 00:27.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's a must, an absolute must for you KPFK listeners, you listeners here in New York.
[00:27.510 --> 00:30.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: Laura Cavanaugh, my wife, honey, I'm on the way home.
[00:30.530 --> 00:32.530]  [SPEAKER_19]: Christina, a lot of thanks.
[00:33.030 --> 00:34.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hasta luego.
[00:34.230 --> 00:34.530]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[00:35.250 --> 00:36.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: Ciao, mi gente.
[00:45.590 --> 00:49.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is the Expert Witness Radio Show with Michael Levine.
[00:50.170 --> 00:59.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: For more information on tonight's show, please visit our worldwide website at www.expertwitnessradio.com.
[01:10.240 --> 01:12.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: The Palestinian Reality?
[01:12.540 --> 01:15.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: What's really happening in the Muslim lands?
[01:15.040 --> 01:17.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: A New Memoir by Professor Leila Ahmed?
[01:18.540 --> 01:21.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or Muslim Political Candidates in the USA?
[01:22.540 --> 01:29.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: These and more are questions you can hear discussed on Tahrir, WBAI's magazine of the Arab Muslim community.
[01:30.620 --> 01:39.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Marhaba, I'm Barbara Nimri-Aziz, and I'd like you to join me and our Tahrir staff every Tuesday night at 9 o'clock.
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[02:35.640 --> 02:42.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Only on listener-supported, non-commercial WBAI 99.5 FM in New York City.
[02:43.940 --> 02:44.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Be there.
[02:56.290 --> 03:01.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm sure he means be at your radio, not be at WBAI in New York, which is where we are right now.
[03:01.570 --> 03:06.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's 8 o'clock time, once again, for another exciting edition of Off the Hook.
[03:13.240 --> 03:17.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[03:18.700 --> 03:23.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough.
[03:28.400 --> 03:31.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good, bum-diddly-bum, but the best, expect the worst.
[03:32.180 --> 03:35.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: I hope that's understood, bum-diddly-bum!
[04:33.600 --> 04:36.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: By the telescope, a faint...
[04:40.840 --> 04:43.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is Britain.
[05:05.730 --> 05:07.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: And a good evening to everybody.
[05:07.250 --> 05:09.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: The program is off the hook.
[05:09.470 --> 05:10.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
[05:10.790 --> 05:12.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: Isaac over there on the other side of the room.
[05:12.430 --> 05:13.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: He's way over yonder.
[05:13.710 --> 05:14.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: How you doing?
[05:14.550 --> 05:14.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Not bad.
[05:15.110 --> 05:15.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yourself?
[05:15.430 --> 05:17.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, what an adventure I had getting in here today.
[05:17.170 --> 05:17.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: So I hear.
[05:18.030 --> 05:18.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Unbelievable.
[05:18.690 --> 05:20.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: I just think there's more people here or something.
[05:20.650 --> 05:22.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: Or else I'm getting stupider.
[05:22.650 --> 05:26.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: Because I'm leaving my house earlier to get here and it's taking me longer.
[05:28.270 --> 05:30.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, yeah, I just got here with about 30 seconds to spare.
[05:31.190 --> 05:32.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I remember.
[05:32.970 --> 05:39.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: I apologize to anybody I may have offended or whose life I might have endangered on the various roads that I was on a few minutes ago.
[05:41.190 --> 05:44.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I could tell you we're coming because of the flashing lights and sirens.
[05:44.430 --> 05:46.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: As Spock says, the needs of the many and all that kind of thing.
[05:46.610 --> 05:50.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know how WBAI listeners are if their programs are preempted and we just could not have that.
[05:51.210 --> 05:57.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: So here I am on time, on schedule, and prepared for another action-packed edition of Off the Hook.
[05:57.610 --> 06:01.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, here's some really bad news that I only got yesterday.
[06:02.130 --> 06:03.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: We always start off with bad news.
[06:03.710 --> 06:05.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's kind of like a tradition for this program.
[06:06.270 --> 06:07.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, this is really bad news.
[06:07.790 --> 06:09.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know if you've heard about this, Isaac.
[06:09.250 --> 06:11.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's something that I think would affect you quite a bit, too.
[06:11.190 --> 06:11.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: It may not have.
[06:11.810 --> 06:16.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: And the music in the background kind of emphasizes the...
[06:16.590 --> 06:17.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: Does it have something to do with Britain?
[06:18.170 --> 06:18.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, it does.
[06:18.830 --> 06:18.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh.
[06:19.110 --> 06:19.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: It does.
[06:19.890 --> 06:25.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: And the beginning of this track, which, by the way, is by Dread Zone, in case people are wondering about that.
[06:25.790 --> 06:31.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: Dread Zone comprised of various members of Big Audio Dynamite, who are the people who do the theme, too.
[06:31.750 --> 06:34.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, yeah, it's really kind of cool.
[06:35.090 --> 06:38.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hopefully I'll meet up with some of them when I'm over there later on this summer.
[06:38.570 --> 06:39.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: For HAL 2001?
[06:39.770 --> 06:40.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, HAL 2001.
[06:40.550 --> 06:41.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll talk about that later, too.
[06:41.750 --> 06:41.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[06:42.910 --> 06:49.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: But, basically, the BBC is going to stop broadcasting on shortwave to this country, anyway.
[06:49.950 --> 06:50.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: No!
[06:50.530 --> 06:51.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I can't believe it.
[06:51.510 --> 06:52.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: I thought it was some kind of a joke.
[06:52.970 --> 06:55.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: I was reading Radio World, which is another great publication.
[06:55.230 --> 06:55.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Everybody should...
[06:55.870 --> 06:58.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know how you get it, but it's around.
[06:58.330 --> 06:59.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: Look it up someplace.
[07:00.110 --> 07:03.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: It talks all about radio and various things that are going on.
[07:04.030 --> 07:04.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: Around the world?
[07:04.790 --> 07:05.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: All around the world.
[07:05.870 --> 07:09.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: And what's going on in this country, too, and how radio is being destroyed and that kind of thing.
[07:09.770 --> 07:11.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: Sometimes they get it, sometimes they don't.
[07:11.310 --> 07:13.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: This time, I'm not sure if they really got it.
[07:13.670 --> 07:16.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'll read you the story first, and I'll read you their take on it.
[07:16.670 --> 07:26.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: The British Broadcasting Corporation's World Service plans to end shortwave transmissions to North America, Australia, New Zealand, and the Pacific Islands beginning July 1st.
[07:26.470 --> 07:28.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: We had a couple of days' notice.
[07:29.130 --> 07:36.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: As more of its listeners access the BBC via FM, the internet, cable, and mobile devices.
[07:36.370 --> 07:36.750]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no.
[07:36.930 --> 07:37.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's their justification?
[07:37.910 --> 07:38.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's their justification?
[07:38.770 --> 07:39.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: People are listening over the internet?
[07:39.730 --> 07:40.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Can you believe this nonsense?
[07:42.150 --> 07:44.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll get into why it's nonsense in a moment.
[07:44.190 --> 07:56.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: But Mark Byfer, director of the BBC World Service, stated on the BBC's webpage, In the U.S., three times as many people listen to us on FM as on shortwave, and one and a half million users access online each month.
[07:57.370 --> 08:01.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: To meet demand for better quality, the BBC needs to explore new technologies, he stated.
[08:01.950 --> 08:07.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: The money saved by closing shortwave transmission to North America will go towards funding this investment in the future.
[08:07.650 --> 08:14.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: The BBC says it remains committed to shortwave and is upgrading transmission relay stations in Oman, Cyprus, and Singapore.
[08:15.030 --> 08:20.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: The announcement comes after Swiss Radio International says it, too, will phase out shortwave over the next several years.
[08:21.310 --> 08:31.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: In a message on Radio Netherlands' website that tells listeners not to panic, spokesman Andy Sennett stated that cost is a big reason to switch off shortwave.
[08:31.230 --> 08:35.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: Those who listen to international broadcasts generally contribute nothing toward maintaining them.
[08:36.230 --> 08:38.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: These costs are borne by the broadcasters.
[08:38.470 --> 08:40.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: It costs a lot of money to operate a high-power shortwave transmitter.
[08:41.090 --> 08:49.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: There comes a point at which the proportion of listeners relying on shortwave falls below the level at which the service can be economically justified.
[08:49.430 --> 08:55.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: He called the BBC decision part of an ongoing strategy assessment in which all international broadcasters should take part.
[08:55.750 --> 08:55.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't like that.
[08:56.010 --> 08:57.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: He addressed people so they won't panic.
[08:58.090 --> 08:59.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I mean, here's the thing.
[09:00.130 --> 09:03.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: Shortwave has existed now for the better part of the 20th century.
[09:03.930 --> 09:04.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I would just say ever.
[09:04.970 --> 09:14.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, if we could afford to broadcast this in the 1940s, you know, all around the world, why can we not afford it anymore?
[09:14.510 --> 09:16.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, 2001, all of a sudden it's too expensive?
[09:16.970 --> 09:18.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, if anything, it should be cheaper.
[09:18.930 --> 09:27.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: But the real thing is, I got my start, my first exposure to the BBC came on a shortwave radio, which I didn't know was a shortwave radio, actually.
[09:27.730 --> 09:31.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: I was at my grandparents' house and I was tuning around this radio, this big, huge radio.
[09:31.670 --> 09:32.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: With stranger numbers in it.
[09:32.790 --> 09:34.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I just, yeah, it had cities printed on it.
[09:35.130 --> 09:36.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: Those are the really old ones.
[09:36.430 --> 09:41.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I actually heard this guy talking in a British accent and he was saying that it was the next day.
[09:41.250 --> 09:42.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: It was like Wednesday when it was actually Tuesday.
[09:42.970 --> 09:44.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I was wondering, why is he saying it's Wednesday?
[09:44.530 --> 09:46.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then I realized, wow, this guy's all the way overseas.
[09:46.510 --> 09:53.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that's when the magic started, you know, where you can actually tune a radio and hear something so far away.
[09:53.310 --> 10:02.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: And the BBC has a history of really having great programming as far as news, documentaries, dramatic presentations, all that kind of thing.
[10:02.150 --> 10:08.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: And that's stuff that you get on shortwave because anybody can carry a shortwave radio around with them, a handheld one.
[10:08.210 --> 10:09.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: You can bring it in your car.
[10:09.410 --> 10:10.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: You can have it at home.
[10:10.490 --> 10:19.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: And BBC has always been one of the most powerful broadcasters because actually the transmitters are located in the Caribbean and in Canada and various places like that.
[10:19.250 --> 10:21.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: So it's relatively easy to pick up.
[10:21.270 --> 10:28.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, I really think that by having that voice wiped out of the shortwave spectrum, a lot of people will never get into shortwave.
[10:28.770 --> 10:32.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: And shortwave has so many fascinating attributes to it.
[10:32.610 --> 10:34.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: You can hear all kinds of amazing things.
[10:35.370 --> 10:36.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: Numbers stations.
[10:36.550 --> 10:45.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: You can hear foreign languages of all different sorts, music from different countries, and just sort of trying to figure out how to get stations, how to pull them in.
[10:45.790 --> 10:57.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, there are books like the World Radio Television Handbook where you can figure out what frequency to tune, what time, what language, you know, to actually get a station from a far and distant land.
[10:58.150 --> 11:01.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: That magic, I'm sorry, that magic just isn't there when you click on a web page.
[11:01.630 --> 11:02.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's not there at all.
[11:03.290 --> 11:08.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: And when you listen on FM, first of all, it's horribly unfair to say that this is available.
[11:08.450 --> 11:14.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: I can, right now, for the next three days or so, I can go home, turn on my shortwave radio, and hear the BBC anytime.
[11:14.690 --> 11:17.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: I cannot do that on an FM radio.
[11:18.050 --> 11:22.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: There's a radio station, WNYE in Brooklyn, that broadcasts BBC from, I think, 12 to 6 at night.
[11:22.810 --> 11:23.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, great.
[11:23.290 --> 11:25.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't get them where I am, and plus what happens in the daytime.
[11:26.470 --> 11:29.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, that's only one small part of the spectrum.
[11:29.570 --> 11:30.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's a big mistake.
[11:30.850 --> 11:36.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I really hope people rise up in great numbers and tell the BBC this is a big mistake.
[11:36.330 --> 11:37.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: Because once it's gone, it's gone.
[11:37.890 --> 11:41.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm still upset that the CBC took off all their AM stations.
[11:41.610 --> 11:44.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: I used to listen to them driving around in my car in the United States.
[11:44.690 --> 11:49.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, now they have more efficient stations, but they only serve the local area, so you can't get them at a distance.
[11:49.830 --> 11:54.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's also the FCC having a problem with the CBC crossing the border with their transmissions.
[11:54.370 --> 11:56.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, the FCC has nothing to say about that.
[11:56.390 --> 11:57.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: It was perfectly legal what they were doing.
[11:57.910 --> 12:01.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, it's called sharing the broadcast spectrum.
[12:01.790 --> 12:04.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: They were not pressured to go off the air because of the FCC.
[12:04.690 --> 12:09.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: It was a CBC move towards, I don't know, more efficiency or something.
[12:09.550 --> 12:11.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: But sometimes you lose a lot with more efficiency.
[12:12.250 --> 12:16.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let me read the Radio World editorial about this because I think that's got a few interesting points.
[12:17.070 --> 12:24.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: With its decision to cut shortwave service to North America, Australia, New Zealand, and the Pacific Islands, the BBC is doing what's economical for its service.
[12:25.090 --> 12:35.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: The BBC is not abandoning shortwave entirely, but it says listeners have migrated away from shortwave and now tune in via FM, the internet, satellite, cable, and mobile devices.
[12:35.450 --> 12:39.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, a lot of poor people don't have any of those devices, but never mind that.
[12:39.750 --> 12:44.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: Three times as many people in the United States listen to BBC on FM as on shortwave.
[12:44.290 --> 12:46.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: Half a million users access this broadcast online each month.
[12:47.550 --> 12:50.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: Of course, you could access it for a second, and that counts.
[12:50.710 --> 12:52.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, it's not the same thing as listening on the radio.
[12:52.490 --> 13:02.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: The BBC is using the money it would have spent to maintain these aging transmission facilities to beef up its infrastructure in the Middle East and Asia, where shortwave is still the predominant way listeners hear the service.
[13:02.670 --> 13:12.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: Given the life expectancy for a typical modern shortwave transmitter of 20 to 30 years, the BBC seems serious about committing resources to protect such an infrastructure where it makes business sense to do so.
[13:13.390 --> 13:15.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: Of course, the BBC was never really a business before.
[13:16.150 --> 13:17.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: They weren't really thinking that way.
[13:17.430 --> 13:21.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: Kind of a service, but we'll just skip over that part for now.
[13:21.990 --> 13:28.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: While the trimming of shortwave is heart-wrenching to those who understand the history of broadcast communications, technology changes with the times.
[13:28.350 --> 13:36.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: It is more important for a broadcast entity to deliver a message effectively to meet its defined mission than to protect its infrastructure for the sake of doing so.
[13:36.070 --> 13:39.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, that's assuming that it's a trade-off, that you can't have the Internet.
[13:39.530 --> 13:41.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: You can't have FM radio if you keep shortwave.
[13:41.570 --> 13:42.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I just don't think that's true.
[13:42.910 --> 13:45.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think these things represent expansion of an existing service.
[13:46.170 --> 13:48.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you do have a limited amount of resources.
[13:48.470 --> 13:49.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Personnel, technicians, money.
[13:49.870 --> 13:52.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if this is the choice they're being forced to make...
[13:52.670 --> 13:53.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: But why now?
[13:54.030 --> 13:55.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: Why this one particular moment?
[13:55.390 --> 14:00.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: I've never even heard anything before this about the BBC having trouble with keeping their infrastructure going.
[14:00.990 --> 14:03.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, I've never heard a single word about it.
[14:03.150 --> 14:05.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: And they have more revenue than ever now.
[14:05.450 --> 14:06.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: They sell videotapes.
[14:06.970 --> 14:08.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: They have American TV channels.
[14:08.470 --> 14:10.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: They're spreading their audience all over the place.
[14:10.170 --> 14:11.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: If anything, they should be able to support this.
[14:12.450 --> 14:12.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: U.S.
[14:13.050 --> 14:18.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: government broadcasters that send their transmissions overseas, such as The Voice of America, are wrestling with similar questions.
[14:18.470 --> 14:22.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: When is shortwave the most economical way to get programming to the widest possible audience?
[14:22.190 --> 14:23.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: Where do other methods make sense?
[14:23.870 --> 14:28.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: These decisions are being made in a post-Cold War world with much different needs than in the past.
[14:29.570 --> 14:42.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: Some would argue that shortwave remains necessary in countries where people can't afford computers and mobile devices, such as the United States, maybe, and where governments intentionally interfere with broadcast for political reasons, such as the United States,
[14:42.190 --> 14:42.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: for instance.
[14:42.950 --> 14:45.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: The BBC agrees shortwave...
[14:45.130 --> 14:50.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I consider not being allowed to access the airwaves interference, but another topic.
[14:50.630 --> 14:57.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: The BBC agrees shortwave is vital in many areas and estimates it has a total worldwide potential listening audience of 153 million.
[14:58.590 --> 15:03.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: But while shortwave will retain a role for many years, a movement away from it is inevitable.
[15:03.370 --> 15:08.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: The world's leading broadcast organizations are wise to consider more efficient ways of reaching their audience.
[15:08.370 --> 15:16.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think we will have reached that stage when everybody has that access, but right now I don't think everybody has that access.
[15:17.150 --> 15:22.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: If they're going for sheer numbers of listeners, dropping shortwave and going to the Internet is probably a bad idea.
[15:22.550 --> 15:26.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: They have 300,000 listeners per month on shortwave, they've estimated in North America.
[15:26.810 --> 15:29.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know how they get those figures, but 300,000 people.
[15:29.230 --> 15:48.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now let's assume those 300,000 people, let's assume even half of those don't have access to the Internet, and not just the Internet, but high-speed Internet where you can listen to live audio, radio, or XM, which is the satellite, XM Sirius, these are the satellite services that you pay a fee for to have in your car,
[15:48.670 --> 15:52.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: and then NPR and BBC, there are certain services that you can have.
[15:52.630 --> 15:53.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't have access to that.
[15:53.910 --> 15:54.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do you have access to that?
[15:54.690 --> 15:56.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't think anybody I know has access to that.
[15:57.170 --> 16:02.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: Then there are some FM stations, some FM stations that carry it at certain hours.
[16:02.530 --> 16:05.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: It basically represents a big cutback, a big cutback.
[16:05.930 --> 16:11.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: You cannot turn on the radio and listen to, I think, one of the most interesting radio broadcasters.
[16:12.230 --> 16:21.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, I never thought, I keep seeing radio falling apart all around me, but I never thought that the BBC was going to disappear anytime soon.
[16:21.710 --> 16:25.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it is disappearing because, well, I can't access it right now.
[16:25.930 --> 16:29.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: The way I accessed the BBC was through my shortwave radio, and that's going to go away.
[16:30.550 --> 16:34.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's disappointing, and I think there's plenty of Kiwis and Aussies who are going to agree with you.
[16:35.930 --> 16:36.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: What about Americans?
[16:37.150 --> 16:41.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, by definition, a bunch of Americans are going to agree with you.
[16:41.370 --> 16:41.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[16:41.650 --> 16:42.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: They hear us here.
[16:42.510 --> 16:51.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: But, yeah, it's unfortunate because that shortwave capability of the BBC, that loud, booming voice from Britain, was something to be very proud of.
[16:51.410 --> 16:51.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[16:51.870 --> 16:53.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, I don't know.
[16:53.710 --> 16:56.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wouldn't agree with the decision, but I don't know all the numbers that they're working with.
[16:57.010 --> 16:59.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think they at least should have talked about it a little bit more.
[17:00.090 --> 17:03.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, I found out about this on July 26th.
[17:04.150 --> 17:05.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, June 26th.
[17:05.290 --> 17:07.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: Four days away from July 1st.
[17:08.510 --> 17:10.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's, you know, that's kind of sudden.
[17:12.110 --> 17:15.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: Anyway, how much does it cost to maintain a shortwave transmitter, anyway?
[17:15.990 --> 17:16.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Couldn't tell you.
[17:17.790 --> 17:20.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: I imagine it depends on the power of where the facility is.
[17:20.470 --> 17:26.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, if you're in the deep, dark jungles of God knows where, it's going to be a lot more than if you're downtown and somewhere else.
[17:26.910 --> 17:28.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, maybe someone can give us some facts on that.
[17:28.910 --> 17:33.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: Also, I guess it opens up the spectrum to somebody and maybe somebody else will take it.
[17:33.330 --> 17:35.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's going to be for a popular slot, actually.
[17:35.270 --> 17:37.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, maybe somebody else can just simply rebroadcast them.
[17:37.350 --> 17:37.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know.
[17:38.690 --> 17:39.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[17:39.970 --> 17:42.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: More issues of progress, alleged progress.
[17:42.590 --> 17:50.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: New Yorkers will no longer be allowed to chat on their handheld phones while driving under legislation passed by an overwhelming majority of the state assembly on Monday.
[17:50.930 --> 17:52.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, that is the state, not just the city, folks.
[17:53.010 --> 17:53.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yep.
[17:53.450 --> 17:58.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, next time I'm late for my show, I won't be able to talk to you while I'm driving here.
[17:58.210 --> 17:59.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, right now, you can't do it in Suffolk County.
[17:59.650 --> 18:01.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have to get into Nassau before you can call.
[18:01.530 --> 18:03.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: As of July 1st, I won't be able to do it in Nassau either.
[18:04.270 --> 18:05.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, what good is the phone again?
[18:05.510 --> 18:05.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: What's that?
[18:05.990 --> 18:07.030]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, what good is the phone again?
[18:07.170 --> 18:07.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's no good at all.
[18:07.990 --> 18:08.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[18:08.190 --> 18:08.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's no good at all.
[18:08.830 --> 18:10.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, here's the funny thing.
[18:10.670 --> 18:14.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let me try and find the part in this article that was on the New York Times.
[18:14.890 --> 18:18.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: The bill passed the assembly by a 125 to 19 vote.
[18:19.810 --> 18:24.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Similar bans have been proposed in 41 other states in the last two and a half years, but those have so far failed to pass.
[18:27.830 --> 18:31.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Basically, as we said, we have Nassau and Suffolk leading the way.
[18:33.090 --> 18:40.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: The bill got an extra boost in late March when Quinnipiac University published a poll showing that 87% of New York voters supported the idea.
[18:41.610 --> 18:49.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: A week later, Governor Pataki and the leaders of the Senate and Assembly endorsed a prohibition on the use of handheld cell phones while driving.
[18:50.890 --> 18:53.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, it doesn't ban talking on the phone in a car.
[18:53.850 --> 18:57.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Or it bans holding it to your ear and having a conversation.
[18:59.050 --> 19:01.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: It raises all kinds of questions.
[19:01.390 --> 19:10.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: And if I go out tomorrow and I buy a plastic cell phone and just hold it to my ear while I drive because I'm just into that kind of thing, am I going to be getting tickets for this?
[19:10.870 --> 19:12.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm sure I'll get pulled over all the time.
[19:12.370 --> 19:13.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: But what if everybody did that?
[19:13.590 --> 19:17.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: What if everybody started carrying a little piece of plastic that they held to their ear?
[19:17.130 --> 19:24.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, well, I saw an interview with one of these gentlemen, one of the assemblymen who is from Brooklyn or something, talking about this legislation.
[19:25.210 --> 19:27.810]  [SPEAKER_03]: And the question was posed to him.
[19:27.870 --> 19:31.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: And his response was basically, no, this is just the beginning.
[19:31.790 --> 19:32.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just the beginning?
[19:32.470 --> 19:33.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: And that frightens me.
[19:33.450 --> 19:34.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just the beginning of what?
[19:34.290 --> 19:35.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Where are we going for this?
[19:35.310 --> 19:37.370]  [SPEAKER_03]: Are we talking about cups of coffee in the morning?
[19:47.390 --> 19:49.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Will that become a felony next?
[19:49.670 --> 19:50.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let me continue.
[19:50.470 --> 19:59.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: The new law would direct state traffic officials to analyze the causes of accidents over the next four years to determine if cell phones do cause accidents.
[20:00.330 --> 20:02.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: Why are they doing it after the law?
[20:02.930 --> 20:06.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: Shouldn't they have had the study before so that they could be sure that the law is a good thing?
[20:06.670 --> 20:07.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's the quiet guys like you and me.
[20:08.210 --> 20:13.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: It would also exempt people who use their telephones in emergencies to call police or fire departments or other authorities.
[20:14.670 --> 20:23.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, basically, if you get pulled over, I guess, make an emergency fast so you can make a phone call to your lawyer, throw a match out the window and start a brush fire and say, hey, I was just reporting that.
[20:24.890 --> 20:35.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Anyway, the final bill represented a compromise worked out last week between the governor, Mr. Silver, Mr. Silver is, I don't know who that is, and the Senate Majority Leader, Joseph Bruno.
[20:35.590 --> 20:42.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: The Republicans who control the Senate pushed to have the law take effect this year rather than phasing it in over two or three years as the Assembly had proposed.
[20:44.450 --> 20:56.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, interesting, interesting, even supporters of the ban acknowledge, and this is something that no one ever talks about, there is scant empirical evidence linking handheld telephones to accidents.
[20:56.250 --> 20:56.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: Duh.
[20:59.270 --> 21:07.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: In 1997, the New England Journal of Medicine published a study suggesting that a person who regularly used a telephone while driving was four times more likely to have an accident than a driver who did not.
[21:07.750 --> 21:08.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Based on what?
[21:08.530 --> 21:21.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: But an American, not really based on anything, but an American Automobile Association study which looked at 32,303 traffic accidents between 1995 and 1999 found that fiddling with a radio or tape player caused far more accidents than talking on the phone.
[21:22.110 --> 21:27.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: Of those 32,303 accidents, only 42 could be traced to phone use.
[21:27.910 --> 21:30.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bottom line, you were distracted, you should have been a better driver.
[21:30.950 --> 21:31.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[21:31.610 --> 21:34.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: And bands like this, they frighten me.
[21:34.750 --> 21:36.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, where is this going to stop?
[21:36.250 --> 21:38.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, uh...
[21:38.150 --> 21:40.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's enough.
[21:41.590 --> 21:42.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: Moving on.
[21:42.470 --> 21:44.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: We have all kinds of listener mail.
[21:44.330 --> 21:46.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: We'll be taking listener phone calls in just a couple of moments.
[21:49.170 --> 21:49.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um...
[21:49.570 --> 21:53.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, this person says, I was listening to your radio show that aired on June 19th.
[21:53.030 --> 21:53.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: That would be one week ago.
[21:54.330 --> 21:56.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh, you talked about Sprint PCS charges and stuff.
[21:56.870 --> 21:58.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, I'm still pretty steaming mad about that.
[21:58.510 --> 22:00.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: Did you send them your inconvenience, Bill?
[22:00.730 --> 22:01.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[22:01.890 --> 22:02.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do it.
[22:02.530 --> 22:05.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's a big waste of time sending Sprint PCS my own bill.
[22:05.710 --> 22:06.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: Type up a nice letter.
[22:06.250 --> 22:07.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, $30 inconvenience charge.
[22:07.870 --> 22:08.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll tell you what.
[22:08.430 --> 22:09.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll split it with you if you do it.
[22:09.690 --> 22:10.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: How about that?
[22:10.490 --> 22:13.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I pay for the stamp on the return envelope that you extended on the offer.
[22:13.130 --> 22:15.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: The enthusiasm has been wiped from your face like a stain.
[22:16.150 --> 22:17.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's 34 cents.
[22:17.270 --> 22:17.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, come on.
[22:17.910 --> 22:19.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, I'll split what I get back.
[22:19.890 --> 22:20.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, oh, the 30 bucks?
[22:21.210 --> 22:21.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, okay, cool.
[22:21.930 --> 22:26.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: In fact, you can send bills to anybody you want and whatever we get back you can have half of.
[22:26.210 --> 22:26.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: How about that?
[22:26.770 --> 22:27.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: Not a problem.
[22:27.350 --> 22:28.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: Just don't tell me about it.
[22:28.190 --> 22:28.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: Just give me the money.
[22:29.850 --> 22:33.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I have discovered something about Sprint PCS and have been exploiting it for a while.
[22:36.250 --> 22:37.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's actually one of their plans, the sucky plan.
[22:37.970 --> 22:38.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: The sucky plan?
[22:38.830 --> 22:41.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: I threatened to cancel and they gave me a better plan.
[22:41.750 --> 22:42.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: Coolness, huh?
[22:42.470 --> 22:50.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, then I bought another phone but the phone plan sucked at that time so I called and threatened to cancel my existing phone because I wanted another phone with a better plan so they gave me a better plan for the other phone.
[22:51.870 --> 22:52.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, I'm following.
[22:53.330 --> 22:53.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good.
[22:54.070 --> 22:57.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: Then this weekend I dropped my phone in a cooler and of course it died.
[22:58.330 --> 22:59.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, yes, that would be expected.
[23:00.770 --> 23:02.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: Of course, I didn't tell them that.
[23:02.190 --> 23:06.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: I went to the Sprint PCS store and they said that they found some kind of moisture and that voided the warranty.
[23:07.610 --> 23:09.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: So I was like, fine, okay.
[23:11.950 --> 23:22.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: Later on that day I called into the Sprint PCS place and told them that I had my phone all the time that I know that I hadn't exposed it to moisture so I was going to cancel since they made sucky phones that I guess generate moisture.
[23:24.730 --> 23:29.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: The Sprint representative's exact words were, well, what if I could replace your phone for you for free?
[23:29.210 --> 23:30.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, rock on.
[23:30.010 --> 23:34.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: I knew that's what they were going to tell me but what about the $34.99 activation charge to change my phone?
[23:34.670 --> 23:34.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: Gone.
[23:35.470 --> 23:39.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: I didn't even mention that when the guy told me that since it's a replacement I didn't have to pay that charge.
[23:40.190 --> 23:42.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, mine was a replacement and I did have to pay that charge.
[23:43.470 --> 23:45.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: So the key to Sprint PCS is to threaten to cancel.
[23:46.170 --> 23:47.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: They'll want to keep you.
[23:47.950 --> 23:50.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're much more interested in retention than anything else.
[23:50.970 --> 23:51.510]  [SPEAKER_22]: I suppose.
[23:51.510 --> 23:55.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I wouldn't be going around making these threats to cancel so...
[23:58.730 --> 24:00.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: not inconsistently was the word I'm looking for.
[24:00.430 --> 24:02.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I just, you know, I don't like being nasty, you know, on the phone.
[24:02.510 --> 24:02.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: Exactly.
[24:02.810 --> 24:07.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you get what you ask for if you're nice about it.
[24:07.590 --> 24:10.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: I like being, you know, polite and getting something that way that I shouldn't get.
[24:10.590 --> 24:14.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Like, for instance, I got a non-refundable plane ticket refunded this week because I was nice.
[24:15.750 --> 24:16.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're in a situation...
[24:16.990 --> 24:20.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: I also lied through my teeth, but that's, you know, you have to do that sometimes.
[24:21.170 --> 24:27.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: Look, like I said, I've said this before, I have no problem lying to anonymous people on the telephone if it's, you know, for something I consider to be justified.
[24:28.170 --> 24:30.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: So all you have to do is say, well, somebody told me I could do this.
[24:31.370 --> 24:32.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: And they say, oh, somebody told you that?
[24:32.870 --> 24:33.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, then I guess it's okay.
[24:33.690 --> 24:36.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, Joe on the corner who was drinking his Coors Light.
[24:36.830 --> 24:36.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[24:37.210 --> 24:43.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, the alternative to that is to simply accept their terms, which in many cases are very unfair.
[24:43.930 --> 24:47.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, those terms are something you probably agreed with when you bought the ticket in the first place.
[24:47.690 --> 24:47.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, actually, I didn't.
[24:47.950 --> 24:49.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: I didn't know it was a non-refundable ticket when I bought it.
[24:49.930 --> 24:50.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, well, then...
[24:50.570 --> 24:51.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: They don't say that.
[24:51.330 --> 24:51.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: That might be justified.
[24:52.170 --> 24:54.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: They say that after you try to get some satisfaction.
[24:54.470 --> 24:56.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: You say, hey, listen, I didn't realize this was a non-refundable ticket.
[24:56.770 --> 24:57.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: I got this in the mail, too.
[24:58.590 --> 25:00.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: To me, this looked like they were mocking me.
[25:00.550 --> 25:05.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: The Sprint PCS sent me a piece of mail saying, want to, quote, clear, unquote, a $30 service credit?
[25:05.670 --> 25:07.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: Give your former Sprint PCS phone to a friend.
[25:08.090 --> 25:10.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's like they're saying, yeah, we got you.
[25:10.230 --> 25:11.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: We heard you.
[25:11.190 --> 25:11.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: You want your money back?
[25:12.030 --> 25:12.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's what you got to do.
[25:13.090 --> 25:14.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, it's just unbelievable.
[25:14.510 --> 25:23.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: So if I sucker some other poor soul into this company, they'll give me $30 back, which isn't the full amount that they took from me, but apparently that's the gimmick.
[25:23.430 --> 25:23.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're closer.
[25:24.270 --> 25:26.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, but just the way they phrased it.
[25:26.550 --> 25:27.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, they want to clear this?
[25:28.230 --> 25:30.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, again, they're looking to get someone else on the network.
[25:30.650 --> 25:33.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're looking to get people aboard and to keep them.
[25:34.370 --> 25:36.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Here's another loader on that same subject.
[25:36.050 --> 25:39.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: I heard about your woes with Sprint PCS in regards to your $34.99 activation charge.
[25:39.870 --> 25:42.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: I called Sprint to see if this was really so and I found a way around it.
[25:43.030 --> 25:48.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: According to Sprint PCS, this act of switching services from one phone to another phone is called an ESN change.
[25:49.310 --> 25:51.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: That is what you did when you switched to that new phone of yours.
[25:52.090 --> 25:54.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: I assume you did this over the phone or at a Sprint PCS store.
[25:54.970 --> 25:57.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: The reason they charged you the $34.99 was because you did it through them.
[25:58.570 --> 26:02.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: According to the person I talked to over the phone, you can do this over the internet free of charge.
[26:02.670 --> 26:05.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: So basically, you don't get charged if you do this via their website.
[26:05.630 --> 26:10.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: I haven't tried doing an ESN change over their website, but according to the tech support people at Sprint, it is possible.
[26:11.410 --> 26:11.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: Huh.
[26:11.810 --> 26:17.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I'm not going to be around to try that again because, as I said, I'm not going to ever buy another Sprint phone again.
[26:17.830 --> 26:20.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: When this one dies, the service dies with it.
[26:20.730 --> 26:21.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's the end of that.
[26:23.550 --> 26:27.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you're off the hook, I notice the off-the-hook staff is always running into horrible customer service.
[26:27.630 --> 26:28.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, yes, that's certainly true.
[26:29.290 --> 26:29.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Wherever you go.
[26:30.150 --> 26:33.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, try calling WorldCom Canada Tech Support.
[26:33.610 --> 26:35.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: You only have to hit two buttons to get to a person.
[26:36.430 --> 26:37.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: One for English, two for French.
[26:37.750 --> 26:39.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then what type of problem are you calling for?
[26:40.170 --> 26:42.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Dial, web, T-WARM, ISDN, etc.
[26:42.710 --> 26:45.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: I just thought you'd like to see what good customer service is all about.
[26:45.290 --> 26:46.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, let's put this in a test.
[26:47.430 --> 26:47.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: What do you think?
[26:47.910 --> 26:50.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do you think we'll get a service representative quickly?
[26:50.810 --> 26:51.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's after 8.
[26:51.450 --> 26:52.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's after 8, yeah.
[26:52.230 --> 26:53.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, that's when we usually make these phone calls.
[26:53.690 --> 26:54.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, yeah.
[26:54.690 --> 26:56.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: I just want to be fair, you know.
[26:57.290 --> 26:59.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: If the service is better up there, let's find out.
[27:01.010 --> 27:01.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hello.
[27:01.930 --> 27:03.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: This has not been tested, by the way.
[27:06.030 --> 27:06.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's see what happens.
[27:17.720 --> 27:19.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Welcome to WorldCom.
[27:19.280 --> 27:22.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have reached our customer network services department.
[27:23.060 --> 27:25.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: For English instructions, please press 1.
[27:26.160 --> 27:27.260]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, this is the first button.
[27:27.420 --> 27:29.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: For French instructions, please press 2.
[27:29.160 --> 27:29.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm going to press 1.
[27:30.460 --> 27:32.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: You now have four choices.
[27:32.260 --> 27:32.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ooh.
[27:32.660 --> 27:35.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you're a dedicated service subscriber, please press 1.
[27:35.960 --> 27:39.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you're a dial-up service subscriber, please press 2.
[27:39.620 --> 27:44.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: To review our current network status message and return to this menu, please press 3.
[27:45.410 --> 27:48.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you're a web hosting subscriber, please press 4.
[27:48.400 --> 27:50.160]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm going to press 2 because that seems to be the most common.
[27:52.740 --> 27:54.360]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I'm only going to give this 30 seconds.
[27:55.910 --> 27:56.600]  [SPEAKER_23]: It is ringing.
[27:56.820 --> 27:58.060]  [SPEAKER_23]: But we'll go to another recording.
[28:04.030 --> 28:06.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: All of our agents are currently busy.
[28:06.410 --> 28:08.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Please stay on the line and your call...
[28:08.810 --> 28:09.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: WorldComCNS, my name is David.
[28:09.950 --> 28:10.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Could I have your account name, please?
[28:10.870 --> 28:11.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, you know what?
[28:11.790 --> 28:13.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think I might have gotten the wrong number.
[28:13.590 --> 28:14.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is this the United States?
[28:15.070 --> 28:15.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, this is Canada.
[28:15.990 --> 28:16.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: Canada.
[28:16.370 --> 28:18.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: You wouldn't happen to have the number for the United States, would you?
[28:18.250 --> 28:18.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know what?
[28:18.750 --> 28:19.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't.
[28:19.350 --> 28:20.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Although I could probably find it pretty quick.
[28:20.690 --> 28:21.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hang on a second.
[28:21.230 --> 28:21.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[28:23.550 --> 28:24.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: I always keep making this mistake.
[28:25.030 --> 28:25.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know why.
[28:25.650 --> 28:26.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: No problem.
[28:36.890 --> 28:38.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: What city are you located in up there?
[28:38.270 --> 28:38.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're in Toronto.
[28:39.150 --> 28:39.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Ah.
[28:41.830 --> 28:44.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure it's the 1-800-900, I think it is.
[28:44.630 --> 28:45.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Where the heck is that?
[28:45.350 --> 28:45.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, here we go.
[28:46.210 --> 28:49.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: 1-800-900-0241.
[28:50.150 --> 28:50.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: 0241.
[28:50.990 --> 28:51.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thank you so much.
[28:51.810 --> 28:52.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: You bet.
[28:52.330 --> 28:52.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: Bye-bye.
[28:53.350 --> 28:55.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, not only were they fast, but they were friendly.
[28:55.350 --> 28:55.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[28:55.810 --> 28:56.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Very friendly.
[28:56.370 --> 28:56.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Very helpful.
[28:57.710 --> 28:59.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's try the reverse, all right?
[28:59.670 --> 29:00.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: The Canada food.
[29:00.310 --> 29:02.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now we're going to call the United States.
[29:03.630 --> 29:05.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: And what do you think we're going to ask them if we do get a human?
[29:06.590 --> 29:08.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think we need the number for Kennedy.
[29:08.390 --> 29:08.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Canada?
[29:08.790 --> 29:09.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: What's that?
[29:10.150 --> 29:10.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Canada what?
[29:10.990 --> 29:11.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right, let's see what happens.
[29:12.470 --> 29:13.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're not going to pass judgment.
[29:14.190 --> 29:16.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: For quality assurance, this call may be monitored.
[29:17.030 --> 29:19.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you for calling UUNet's Technical Support Center.
[29:19.850 --> 29:22.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Please listen carefully to the following menu options.
[29:22.550 --> 29:25.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you know the menu selections, you may enter them at any time during the recording.
[29:25.550 --> 29:26.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is this going through a teen can or something?
[29:26.950 --> 29:31.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or if you're calling from a rotary phone, please stay on the line and your call will be answered in the order it was received.
[29:32.010 --> 29:35.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you know the extension of the person you are calling, press 8.
[29:35.270 --> 29:38.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: To listen to a menu of technical support options, press 2.
[29:38.610 --> 29:40.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: To reach accounting, press 3.
[29:41.050 --> 29:42.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: To reach sales, press 4.
[29:42.910 --> 29:45.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or for any other matters, press 0.
[29:45.110 --> 29:46.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think 2 is the closest to what we did before.
[29:46.910 --> 29:47.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: Technical.
[29:47.410 --> 29:47.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[29:47.910 --> 29:49.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: Here we go.
[29:50.190 --> 29:54.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you are a multi-meg, UU Secure VPN, or managed CPE customer, press 1.
[29:55.190 --> 29:58.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you are a dial-up or ISDN customer, press 2.
[29:58.410 --> 29:58.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, that's the one.
[29:58.970 --> 30:03.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you are a T1 framework, please listen carefully as the menu options have recently changed.
[30:03.050 --> 30:03.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ah, more menus.
[30:03.310 --> 30:14.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you have a UU dial, solo, dial-up account, or an ISDN UU dial office account, and are having problems connecting to the internet, or have questions regarding pop mail or news readers, please press 1.
[30:14.870 --> 30:21.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: For questions regarding domain name service, domain registration, SMTP mail, or UUCP mail, please press 2.
[30:22.110 --> 30:26.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: For questions regarding current or additional IP networks, please press 3.
[30:26.390 --> 30:29.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: To change customer contact information, please press 5.
[30:30.230 --> 30:30.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: What about 4?
[30:31.090 --> 30:31.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, which one do I press?
[30:32.270 --> 30:32.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: Try 1.
[30:32.970 --> 30:33.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: 1.
[30:33.630 --> 30:34.290]  [SPEAKER_03]: UUCP mail.
[30:34.310 --> 30:37.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you have a single-user UU dial solo account, please press 1.
[30:37.830 --> 30:41.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you have an ISDN UU dial office account, or a modem.
[30:41.570 --> 30:42.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're low-end.
[30:47.240 --> 30:47.880]  [SPEAKER_23]: Nothing's happening.
[30:47.940 --> 30:49.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: The quality, this call may be monitored.
[30:49.600 --> 30:50.400]  [SPEAKER_23]: I already heard that.
[30:50.820 --> 30:51.340]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[30:51.920 --> 30:52.780]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hopefully we're getting somewhere.
[30:59.270 --> 31:00.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: Welcome to Asport.
[31:00.150 --> 31:00.630]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is Robert.
[31:00.750 --> 31:01.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're Solosport.
[31:01.210 --> 31:01.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: How can I help you?
[31:01.850 --> 31:02.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, I'm sorry.
[31:02.810 --> 31:03.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think I might have made a mistake.
[31:03.530 --> 31:05.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is this the United States or Canada?
[31:06.190 --> 31:06.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: The U.S.
[31:07.250 --> 31:09.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do you have the number for the Canadian WorldCom?
[31:10.350 --> 31:11.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Canadian help desk?
[31:11.450 --> 31:11.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[31:12.290 --> 31:13.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, hold on one second.
[31:13.290 --> 31:13.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thank you.
[31:18.190 --> 31:19.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you looking for WorldCom or UUnet?
[31:20.370 --> 31:20.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: WorldCom.
[31:24.440 --> 31:26.240]  [SPEAKER_23]: Actually, I think WorldCom is UUnet, isn't it?
[31:26.420 --> 31:27.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, but there's...
[31:27.100 --> 31:30.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, UUnet's more the internet service, whereas WorldCom's going to be...
[31:30.180 --> 31:33.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, UUnet's more or less like a subdivision of WorldCom.
[31:33.580 --> 31:33.860]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[31:33.860 --> 31:33.960]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[31:34.340 --> 31:35.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, recently, they were...
[31:36.680 --> 31:38.220]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you're also related to MCI, right?
[31:38.940 --> 31:42.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, WorldCom bought MCI, and UUnet was part of MCI.
[31:42.900 --> 31:43.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[31:43.340 --> 31:44.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's all one big happy thing.
[31:44.400 --> 31:44.560]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[31:46.240 --> 31:47.460]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I'm in the wrong country.
[32:08.890 --> 32:09.530]  Okay, um...
[32:09.530 --> 32:10.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Try this number here.
[32:10.470 --> 32:13.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: 1-888-689-5565.
[32:14.690 --> 32:15.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, thank you so much.
[32:16.050 --> 32:16.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sure, no problem.
[32:16.710 --> 32:16.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[32:17.090 --> 32:17.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye.
[32:17.650 --> 32:18.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, they both got it.
[32:18.750 --> 32:21.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think I know where I'm getting my next nationwide dial-up account.
[32:21.850 --> 32:22.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe, uh...
[32:22.610 --> 32:24.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: Maybe that merger wasn't so bad after all.
[32:24.930 --> 32:27.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, see, large corporate conglomerates can be friendly.
[32:27.430 --> 32:29.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: You know, I've been convinced now.
[32:29.310 --> 32:32.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: That one little demonstration was enough to convince me.
[32:32.090 --> 32:34.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Even at 8 o'clock at night, you know, there's someone there to talk to.
[32:34.890 --> 32:39.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm looking for the piece of email that I got before that I used to make this phone call.
[32:39.990 --> 32:41.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, to compare if it's the right number?
[32:41.310 --> 32:42.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: The phone number was right.
[32:42.410 --> 32:43.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, I'm writing on the back of it, of course.
[32:45.430 --> 32:45.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: Um...
[32:45.710 --> 32:46.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, that is the same number.
[32:46.710 --> 32:46.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's the same number?
[32:47.010 --> 32:47.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: That is the same number.
[32:47.910 --> 32:48.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, actually, no.
[32:48.950 --> 32:49.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's different.
[32:49.570 --> 32:49.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm sorry.
[32:49.890 --> 32:50.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's similar, but it's different.
[32:51.170 --> 32:53.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right, so it might be an extension to Hunt Group or something.
[32:53.230 --> 32:53.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[32:53.750 --> 32:56.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: We could keep this up all night and call them and get another number.
[32:56.250 --> 32:57.590]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but it gets kind of tiring.
[32:57.630 --> 32:59.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, let's continue with the radio program.
[32:59.630 --> 33:02.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: Our telephone number is 212-209-2900.
[33:03.810 --> 33:05.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: And we have all kinds of other things going on as well.
[33:05.770 --> 33:08.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hey, did you listen to the radio show yesterday?
[33:09.150 --> 33:10.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: Gary Knowles' report?
[33:10.450 --> 33:10.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, I missed it.
[33:10.950 --> 33:12.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, it was really, really good.
[33:12.170 --> 33:16.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: In fact, I can direct people to where they can listen to it, and I direct you to listen to it as well.
[33:17.810 --> 33:22.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Basically, it was a two-hour interview with various people involved in the Pacifica Affair.
[33:23.350 --> 33:26.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I was listening to this program, and I was riveted to it.
[33:26.710 --> 33:27.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: I really was.
[33:27.970 --> 33:39.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's probably one of the best examples of what radio can do that I've heard in the last several months, where basically we just talk about the problems that are going on here in an open manner.
[33:39.870 --> 33:41.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hopefully, it will continue this way.
[33:41.210 --> 33:44.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: It was supposed to be a three-part series starting on Friday, going until today.
[33:44.990 --> 33:48.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: It was postponed until Monday, and now it's been changed to be a weekly thing.
[33:48.590 --> 33:50.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Monday is from, I think, 12 to 1.
[33:51.010 --> 34:04.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: But basically, if you go to www.radioforall.net and just look for the Gary Knoll piece on WBAI in Pacifica, you'll find it that way.
[34:06.150 --> 34:11.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: Really, a really good piece, I think, and something that I hope we continue at this place.
[34:12.690 --> 34:14.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: Just talking things over.
[34:14.470 --> 34:15.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, healing process.
[34:15.790 --> 34:24.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think that's what we need to do is actually address issues and do them in such a way that people respect other viewpoints.
[34:24.370 --> 34:28.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: There are a couple of interesting things, and one of which I intend to find out more about.
[34:29.470 --> 34:33.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: He was talking about how it was difficult for him to put together this report.
[34:33.170 --> 34:37.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: How somebody, get this, hacked into his computer and took the report.
[34:37.310 --> 34:39.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: If I understood it correctly, that's what it...
[34:39.510 --> 34:44.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, of course, the expression that you have in your face right now is the expression that I had inside me when I heard this.
[34:44.710 --> 34:47.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: Because where do we see this kind of scenario unfold?
[34:48.190 --> 34:51.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: In Hollywood, on TV, in books.
[34:52.150 --> 35:00.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: As people involved in the hacking world, people are always coming up to us saying, my ex-husband has hidden all this information.
[35:00.370 --> 35:02.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: Can you hack into his computer and get this information for me?
[35:03.010 --> 35:04.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, on TV, that works.
[35:04.490 --> 35:09.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: On TV, you can direct yourself towards an individual person, towards an individual bit of information, and it's always there.
[35:09.530 --> 35:10.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: You can just grab it.
[35:10.530 --> 35:12.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: With lots of graphics and colorful lights.
[35:12.710 --> 35:14.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, and your face appears on their screen when you're doing it.
[35:14.910 --> 35:15.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, right.
[35:16.790 --> 35:18.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's just, it's really silly.
[35:18.090 --> 35:21.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I'm not in any way saying that something did not happen here, but I want to know what happened.
[35:21.910 --> 35:24.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I think we need to have full disclosure.
[35:25.350 --> 35:29.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: There are all kinds of indications that people are being threatened.
[35:29.930 --> 35:39.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: People on the other side of the Pacifica issue, people who are in far away distant cities on the Pacifica national border getting threatening phone calls.
[35:39.250 --> 35:44.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, if anyone out there is getting a threatening phone call, this is what they need to do now.
[35:44.990 --> 35:47.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: They need to dial star 77 on their phones.
[35:47.590 --> 35:53.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: What that will do, that will allow you to only receive phone calls from numbers that show themselves.
[35:53.570 --> 35:57.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, when such a threatening phone call comes in, reveal the phone number.
[35:57.830 --> 35:59.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's get all that information out there.
[35:59.590 --> 36:01.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's find out who's doing this.
[36:01.470 --> 36:16.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: Because to castigate the entire Save Pacifica movement as people who are doing this kind of a thing, it makes as much sense as saying Yasser Arafat's responsible for every single bomb that goes off in the Mideast, you know.
[36:16.550 --> 36:21.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Obviously the guy has no control, or not as much control as some would like to think.
[36:21.910 --> 36:27.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Imagine how easy it is when you have an open group of people where anybody can walk in off the street and be part of it.
[36:27.250 --> 36:33.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, one person goes nuts and says all kinds of nasty things, and that person suddenly is representing the entire movement.
[36:34.270 --> 36:36.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, it's a very difficult thing.
[36:37.010 --> 36:41.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: But in any event, it's a fascinating two hours of interviews.
[36:41.270 --> 36:42.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yesterday it was extended to two hours.
[36:42.910 --> 36:46.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: Again, go to www.radioforall.net.
[36:46.230 --> 36:49.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's R-A-D-I-O number four, A-L-L dot net.
[36:49.030 --> 36:55.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Also, there is an analysis of that show on another website.
[36:58.690 --> 37:05.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: www.wbix.org is an internet radio station having to do with WBAI issues.
[37:05.530 --> 37:05.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, that's right.
[37:05.930 --> 37:10.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's an internet radio station dealing with the on-air radio station.
[37:10.510 --> 37:12.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's amazing.
[37:12.450 --> 37:12.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: It really is.
[37:13.010 --> 37:17.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: And there are a lot of interesting things on that station as well, which unfortunately is only on the internet right now.
[37:17.630 --> 37:18.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: But who knows?
[37:18.170 --> 37:18.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: That might change.
[37:19.590 --> 37:20.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know?
[37:20.290 --> 37:22.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Maybe they'll take over the BBC's transmitters.
[37:24.150 --> 37:24.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[37:24.850 --> 37:25.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: Get down there and just grab them.
[37:26.650 --> 37:27.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: What else?
[37:27.430 --> 37:28.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: Oh, I want to read this too.
[37:28.650 --> 37:29.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then we'll take some phone calls.
[37:30.590 --> 37:38.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: You remember we talked about this a few weeks ago about the kid in New Jersey who killed himself because he was accused of hacking and was afraid of going to prison.
[37:39.110 --> 37:40.130]  [SPEAKER_23]: This has been circulating.
[37:40.130 --> 37:41.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: This is from his school.
[37:42.730 --> 37:44.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: Petition for changes to suspension policy.
[37:44.790 --> 37:50.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you have any comments on any of these, please feel free to butt in and say something.
[37:50.710 --> 37:54.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: But basically, there are seven points about the suspension policy.
[37:55.330 --> 38:02.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: West Windsor Plainsboro School District should have a district-wide, publicly accessible, written set of guidelines for suspensions if such does not already exist.
[38:02.830 --> 38:06.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: As you recall, he was suspended for a phenomenal amount of time.
[38:07.270 --> 38:09.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'm not sure how many days it was, but it was a lot.
[38:09.450 --> 38:12.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: Enough to permanently set you back in your school career.
[38:13.050 --> 38:21.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: Number two, if a suspension is given, there should be a written document describing the reason and evidence for the suspension, and a copy of the document should be given to the parents of the student involved.
[38:22.750 --> 38:29.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: Number three, suspension should not be made on the basis of hearsay, rumor, or information extracted through physical or psychological coercion of the students.
[38:30.450 --> 38:34.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: Suspension should only be made on the basis of clear evidence, such as eyewitness testimony.
[38:35.950 --> 38:40.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Number four, threats of legal or punitive actions, such as prosecution, pressing charges, or lawsuits,
[38:48.750 --> 38:50.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: You okay with this so far, Isaac?
[38:50.450 --> 38:51.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm following.
[38:51.270 --> 38:52.070]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to reserve comment.
[38:52.330 --> 38:53.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Why are you going to reserve comment?
[38:53.450 --> 38:54.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: It makes it interesting when you comment.
[38:55.290 --> 38:55.690]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, no.
[38:56.490 --> 38:59.530]  [SPEAKER_03]: I understand why they're doing this, but...
[38:59.530 --> 39:01.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, it would have been nice if they did this before.
[39:01.990 --> 39:02.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: It might have saved their life.
[39:02.850 --> 39:03.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't think it would have.
[39:04.130 --> 39:04.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, who knows.
[39:04.870 --> 39:13.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: Number five, if a student is to be interrogated regarding incidents that may result in a suspension, the parents should be notified in advance and given the opportunity to be present during the interrogation.
[39:14.110 --> 39:19.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: Numbers... I can't believe interrogation is taking place in schools, but yeah, everybody who goes to school knows that's the kind of thing that goes on.
[39:20.850 --> 39:29.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Number six, suspension should not be handed out for trivial offenses and should be reserved for cases where there is a physical, that is, assault, or psychological danger, such as extreme bullying, to other students.
[39:30.670 --> 39:40.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: And number seven, where there is no physical or psychological danger or threat to other students, alternatives should be explored, such as counseling for the students, community, or school service.
[39:40.630 --> 39:43.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: Suspension should be considered only as a last resort.
[39:43.990 --> 39:48.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, that's the bleeding heart proposal there to make things better in our schools.
[39:49.510 --> 39:50.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: You have nothing to say about it, eh?
[39:51.110 --> 39:51.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[39:52.210 --> 39:52.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Nope.
[39:52.670 --> 39:52.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[39:53.450 --> 39:54.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, maybe our listeners do.
[39:54.990 --> 39:58.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: Again, phone number 212-209-2900.
[39:59.330 --> 40:01.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: Switchboard's still acting a little wacky, but we'll get through it.
[40:02.050 --> 40:03.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: The whack-a-mole switchboard.
[40:03.510 --> 40:04.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: Let's try this one.
[40:04.150 --> 40:04.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[40:04.450 --> 40:04.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air.
[40:05.230 --> 40:05.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.
[40:05.810 --> 40:06.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: How you doing?
[40:06.530 --> 40:07.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, a couple things.
[40:07.570 --> 40:07.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[40:07.910 --> 40:11.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: About what you said about the BBC no longer broadcasting in North America.
[40:11.790 --> 40:11.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[40:12.210 --> 40:13.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like it any more than you do.
[40:14.050 --> 40:18.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I should say that they did give more notice than just today.
[40:19.050 --> 40:23.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: I heard about it, oh, maybe three to four weeks ago, and I don't know where, but it was on radio.
[40:23.990 --> 40:25.030]  [SPEAKER_23]: You should have told us.
[40:25.190 --> 40:25.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I'm sorry.
[40:26.390 --> 40:29.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: Then we would have told all these other people, and maybe we could have done something about it.
[40:29.950 --> 40:30.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: I know.
[40:30.430 --> 40:31.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't like it one bit either.
[40:31.550 --> 40:33.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Which brings me to my second question.
[40:33.510 --> 40:33.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[40:33.750 --> 40:38.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: I got a shortwave radio maybe about six months ago, nine months ago.
[40:38.990 --> 40:40.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm a rank beginner.
[40:40.450 --> 40:41.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know nothing about it.
[40:41.450 --> 40:43.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: But what I did is I got a used shortwave radio.
[40:43.650 --> 40:50.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a realistic DX440, about 11 inches by about seven inches by about two inches deep, you know, a handheld type.
[40:51.210 --> 41:00.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I hooked it up, and I got about maybe 100 feet or so of wire and wrapped around, you know, where the wall meets the ceiling in my room, you know, to get a big antenna there.
[41:00.570 --> 41:01.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's all I did.
[41:01.530 --> 41:05.410]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I'll tell you, I don't get very much, and I really have no idea why.
[41:05.590 --> 41:08.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not the type who's going to hunt down hard to find stations.
[41:08.650 --> 41:10.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to get some interesting foreign news.
[41:10.590 --> 41:12.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, okay, where are you located?
[41:12.950 --> 41:14.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: In New Jersey, central Jersey.
[41:14.270 --> 41:15.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: Are you in an urban area?
[41:15.430 --> 41:15.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: No.
[41:16.210 --> 41:16.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[41:16.570 --> 41:20.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, the direction that you're, you have a long wire antenna, or you just attach it to the wall?
[41:20.470 --> 41:27.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just bought 100 feet of wire, you know, inflated wire, and I ran it all around two rooms where the wall meets the ceiling.
[41:27.670 --> 41:27.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[41:27.990 --> 41:32.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: And just taped it up there, and then attached that, my alligator clip, to the antenna of the radio.
[41:32.350 --> 41:38.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, the best way, and this knows, I know nothing about your, you know, the quality of your receiver, so that could always be the problem.
[41:38.650 --> 41:43.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: But the best way to get shortwave is to have a simple long wire that goes in one particular direction.
[41:44.230 --> 41:45.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, if you're a long wire...
[41:45.450 --> 41:46.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: Just straight?
[41:46.250 --> 41:46.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, just straight.
[41:47.010 --> 41:48.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: And the longer, the better, obviously.
[41:48.410 --> 41:52.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: So if you have, say, a tree outside your house, you just want to connect it to that, and run that into your window.
[41:52.990 --> 41:53.170]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[41:53.170 --> 41:54.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: You should get excellent reception from that.
[41:54.810 --> 41:59.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: Now, the thing is, though, if you run it north-south, you're going to primarily get stations from the east and west.
[41:59.410 --> 42:01.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you run it east-west, you'll get primarily north-south.
[42:01.490 --> 42:01.750]  [SPEAKER_23]: I see.
[42:01.770 --> 42:05.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you're looking for European stations, I would suggest running it north-south.
[42:06.150 --> 42:06.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[42:06.230 --> 42:08.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's what I've done, and I get really good reception.
[42:08.570 --> 42:11.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, because I'm not the type, as I say, who's going to hunt down hard-to-reach stations.
[42:11.730 --> 42:14.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to get some interesting foreign news, hopefully in English.
[42:14.490 --> 42:17.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, you know, the thing is, everybody would say, such as the BBC.
[42:17.690 --> 42:19.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: And now we can't say that anymore.
[42:19.150 --> 42:19.350]  [SPEAKER_23]: Exactly.
[42:19.650 --> 42:20.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: What are we going to say?
[42:20.890 --> 42:22.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, Belgian radio, you know?
[42:22.410 --> 42:22.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: I know.
[42:22.890 --> 42:23.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: I sometimes do.
[42:23.830 --> 42:26.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: If I happen to be up in the middle of the night, I do listen to it on NPR.
[42:27.070 --> 42:28.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: They have it on between, I think, 2 and 6 in the morning.
[42:29.110 --> 42:29.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's not enough.
[42:29.870 --> 42:30.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: And some other foreign stations.
[42:31.090 --> 42:32.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: I want to hear them right now.
[42:32.410 --> 42:33.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, after the show, you know.
[42:33.490 --> 42:35.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: But the point is, you should be able to do it any time you want.
[42:35.750 --> 42:35.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[42:36.250 --> 42:37.270]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, thanks very much.
[42:37.330 --> 42:37.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks.
[42:37.850 --> 42:38.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bye-bye.
[42:38.990 --> 42:39.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think it's a big mistake.
[42:40.150 --> 42:40.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: I really do.
[42:41.390 --> 42:42.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: Hopefully they'll reconsider this.
[42:42.730 --> 42:50.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: I don't know if we have any say, but maybe if enough people contact them, I'm sure there's an address on their website, www.bbc.co.uk.
[42:50.690 --> 42:50.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Correct.
[42:51.730 --> 42:52.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[42:52.470 --> 42:53.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air.
[42:53.790 --> 42:54.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, Manuel.
[42:54.670 --> 42:55.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, gentlemen.
[42:55.890 --> 42:56.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: How are you doing?
[42:56.370 --> 42:57.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: Three things.
[42:57.170 --> 43:08.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Number one, if you notice that the cell phone bill was supported by the cell phone industry, and I think that that was because, look, they get to get you for another $12 to $15 for an accessory.
[43:08.730 --> 43:14.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, according to the stories I read, the cell phone industry was lobbying against it with all kinds of commercials.
[43:14.710 --> 43:15.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: I've heard both.
[43:15.250 --> 43:19.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: I've heard what you say, too, where they want to sell you the extra accessories.
[43:19.390 --> 43:22.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think they get it, you know, they get it good either way.
[43:22.570 --> 43:22.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[43:23.150 --> 43:24.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mr. Silver is Sheldon Silver.
[43:24.990 --> 43:25.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's the Speaker of the Assembly.
[43:26.210 --> 43:26.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Ah, of course.
[43:26.870 --> 43:27.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Leader of the Assembly.
[43:27.870 --> 43:31.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: And did you see the Time Magazine article on computer privacy?
[43:32.170 --> 43:33.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: No, I must have missed that one.
[43:33.310 --> 43:33.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Take a look.
[43:33.930 --> 43:34.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's this week's Time.
[43:35.990 --> 43:37.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: They actually have this...
[43:37.870 --> 43:42.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: They give two websites out in the middle of the article.
[43:42.090 --> 43:52.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, gentlemen, I don't have a computer, so I depend upon listening to your program and the computer show to learn whatever I'm going to learn while I'm saving up to get one.
[43:52.530 --> 43:53.130]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, you're in trouble.
[43:53.330 --> 43:54.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, not really.
[43:54.990 --> 44:02.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, you make fun around, but you guys never purposely steal people wrong about things.
[44:02.850 --> 44:10.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: But one of the things I mentioned in the article are two websites that, quote-unquote, hold hackers' hands while they invade your computer.
[44:10.670 --> 44:11.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, great.
[44:11.050 --> 44:25.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I was looking at these things and going, you know, I don't know about these guys, but I have this thinking feeling that it was taken totally out of context of what these sites were actually listed for.
[44:26.110 --> 44:28.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Take a look at the article and maybe even surf the site.
[44:28.630 --> 44:30.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: You probably... you might even know them.
[44:30.090 --> 44:30.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know.
[44:30.650 --> 44:36.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: But take a look and let us know, because I think that that was... it was kind of dumb for them to say so.
[44:37.310 --> 44:38.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, but not unexpected.
[44:38.810 --> 44:39.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: But yeah, I'll check it out.
[44:41.050 --> 44:41.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's got a real bad name.
[44:42.010 --> 44:45.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's totally on the media's hands.
[44:45.870 --> 44:46.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[44:46.150 --> 44:48.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: They're looking to sensationalize it and get more readers.
[44:48.370 --> 44:50.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's a typical magazine.
[44:50.450 --> 44:54.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: 99% of the time when someone says something stupid like that, they've got something to sell.
[44:54.370 --> 45:00.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Whether it's their publication, whether it's their security, or whether it's, you know, a conference they want you to go to, or something where you can discuss these problems.
[45:01.390 --> 45:05.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: 99% they're trying to sell something, and that's what they get out of defaming people.
[45:06.030 --> 45:06.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[45:06.550 --> 45:06.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks.
[45:06.950 --> 45:07.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thank you very much.
[45:07.450 --> 45:07.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Have a good night.
[45:08.650 --> 45:10.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: 212-209-2900.
[45:10.410 --> 45:10.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[45:10.850 --> 45:11.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air.
[45:12.390 --> 45:12.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi.
[45:12.650 --> 45:14.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just had a couple of quick things.
[45:14.490 --> 45:15.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you're calling from a cell phone, aren't you?
[45:16.410 --> 45:16.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.
[45:16.950 --> 45:17.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hope you're not driving.
[45:18.110 --> 45:20.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I'm driving, and it feels so good.
[45:21.010 --> 45:22.190]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, enjoy it while you can.
[45:22.630 --> 45:24.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I'll tell you, you know, it's a certain kind of freedom.
[45:25.670 --> 45:26.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm also chewing gum.
[45:28.030 --> 45:29.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: How can you do both of those things at once?
[45:29.730 --> 45:30.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's next.
[45:30.790 --> 45:32.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, my parents raised me, right?
[45:34.590 --> 45:37.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have the skills for living, thanks to a public school.
[45:37.630 --> 45:39.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: May I ask what county you're in or what state you're in?
[45:39.990 --> 45:44.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm actually just cross-overing the line on 95 into Connecticut.
[45:44.390 --> 45:44.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[45:44.750 --> 45:45.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for it in New Haven.
[45:45.470 --> 45:46.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're safe for now.
[45:46.730 --> 45:47.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's right.
[45:47.210 --> 45:47.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: I feel it.
[45:47.890 --> 45:48.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[45:49.030 --> 45:53.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the other thing was, if you can stand, one more comment about Sprint PCF.
[45:53.710 --> 45:53.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Sure.
[45:54.230 --> 46:02.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have always found that the employees in the stores will give you all the inside tips on how to get better customer service, how to get money back.
[46:02.510 --> 46:08.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if they're intimidated by having to actually deal with you face-to-face or if they're just kinder souls.
[46:08.710 --> 46:21.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: But anytime I've had a problem with weird charges or trying to get new phones and get rid of activation fees, the guys in the stores are always a great tip on how to sort of psychologically or socially engineer the phone operators.
[46:21.510 --> 46:22.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I highly recommend it.
[46:22.690 --> 46:29.690]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you're looking for a real challenge, try the one in Times Square, the big Sprint PCS center there, because I don't think they want to prove anything to anybody.
[46:30.190 --> 46:32.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I stick with the ones in the suburbs.
[46:32.330 --> 46:35.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, the suburbs tend to be nicer, but, boy, talk about attitude.
[46:35.850 --> 46:36.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: They invented it there.
[46:37.350 --> 46:38.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks for the show.
[46:38.490 --> 46:39.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks for your call.
[46:40.210 --> 46:41.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: 212-209-2900.
[46:41.970 --> 46:42.290]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[46:42.510 --> 46:42.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air.
[46:44.170 --> 46:44.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hello.
[46:44.710 --> 46:45.110]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, go ahead.
[46:45.410 --> 46:45.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hey, Emmanuel.
[46:45.950 --> 46:46.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: How are you doing?
[46:46.470 --> 46:46.710]  [SPEAKER_23]: Pretty good.
[46:46.730 --> 46:46.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: How are you?
[46:47.510 --> 46:48.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm in Pittsburgh.
[46:48.510 --> 46:53.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm listening to you on shortwave, and I just wanted to mention to you, actually, for that one guy...
[46:53.630 --> 46:56.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: So we're actually, like, rebroadcast on a shortwave station.
[46:56.210 --> 46:56.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's incredible.
[46:56.990 --> 47:00.610]  [SPEAKER_23]: You see, people actually do listen to shortwave, and lots of times you don't even know what's on.
[47:00.790 --> 47:01.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
[47:01.210 --> 47:10.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I just wanted to mention to the one guy who was wondering about how to pick up shortwave stations, a great, great resource for this is Monitoring Times.
[47:10.990 --> 47:11.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yes.
[47:11.810 --> 47:26.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you're looking at how to make different types of antennas and different things like that and different projects to do, I also wanted to just mention the cell phone thing, which I think is really scary, just because, you know, once one state goes, every other state goes after that.
[47:26.010 --> 47:30.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, you know, whatever happened to, you know, good old-fashioned libertarianism, you know?
[47:31.530 --> 47:32.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: I agree.
[47:32.690 --> 47:34.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm waiting for the speed limits to come back up.
[47:36.230 --> 47:43.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, so maybe, hopefully we'll come, like, Montana sometime and have no speed limit at all, so...
[47:43.910 --> 47:48.650]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, I don't know if Montana is exactly the example of the Enlightenment capital of the world, but I see your point.
[47:48.970 --> 47:49.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[47:49.410 --> 47:50.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, Montana, he's right.
[47:50.870 --> 47:54.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Montana basically said, you know, this road, you can do a reasonable speed.
[47:54.410 --> 47:55.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: Didn't they change that?
[47:55.430 --> 47:55.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: I thought they...
[47:55.810 --> 47:57.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they did, after a great deal of pressure.
[47:57.730 --> 47:59.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: So it's no longer an example at all, is it?
[47:59.810 --> 48:02.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's an example of the last holdout, I suppose.
[48:02.530 --> 48:02.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[48:02.910 --> 48:03.210]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[48:03.630 --> 48:04.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: 2-2-2-0-9-2-9-H-2.
[48:05.210 --> 48:05.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[48:05.570 --> 48:05.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air.
[48:07.130 --> 48:07.410]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hello?
[48:07.630 --> 48:08.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes, go ahead.
[48:08.290 --> 48:08.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, hi.
[48:09.530 --> 48:10.870]  [SPEAKER_20]: This is Albert from Brooklyn.
[48:11.650 --> 48:16.010]  [SPEAKER_20]: I have a problem with my telephone service, and I was wondering if you can go offer me some advice.
[48:16.870 --> 48:18.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, this is the situation.
[48:18.050 --> 48:28.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: I get calls on my phone, like, say, from several times a day, say, from 3 to 10 times or even more times, like, every two or three days.
[48:28.470 --> 48:36.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, like, when the phone comes on, the answering machine comes on, and then after the message and the beep, I get a long dial tone.
[48:36.850 --> 48:43.070]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I called my phone company to see if they could resolve this, and they seem unable to resolve it.
[48:43.070 --> 48:49.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: But I was wondering if you could offer me some advice other than changing the number of my phone.
[48:49.790 --> 48:51.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: Wait, how many times is this happening?
[48:52.110 --> 48:59.530]  [SPEAKER_20]: At least, like, from, like, say, 3 up to maybe 10 or 15 times a day every two or three days.
[48:59.530 --> 49:02.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, so basically someone's calling you and hanging up is what the problem is.
[49:02.590 --> 49:04.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I don't think it's that.
[49:04.910 --> 49:05.670]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think it might...
[49:05.670 --> 49:12.090]  [SPEAKER_20]: I suspect it might be an attempted fax transmission or an internet connection, because I know...
[49:12.090 --> 49:18.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: Because it happened to me once, because I tried to connect to the internet, and instead of getting a connection to the internet, I got someone picking up the line.
[49:18.930 --> 49:22.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: It's most likely a machine of some sort trying to do something over and over again.
[49:22.390 --> 49:23.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: Have you tried Star 6ix9ine on this?
[49:24.990 --> 49:30.410]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, I did try Star 6ix9ine, and I get a message saying that the number is unknown.
[49:30.810 --> 49:32.310]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay, so it's probably coming from out of the area.
[49:32.470 --> 49:34.890]  [SPEAKER_23]: There are a couple possibilities here, and I've gotten these, too.
[49:36.190 --> 49:49.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: Sometimes telemarketers will call you from states that are far, far away, and they always have unavailable numbers, so they are able to break through the anonymous call rejection, because anonymous call rejection simply blocks private numbers, doesn't block numbers that are out of the area.
[49:50.370 --> 49:57.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: So lots of times what happens is, if they get an answering machine, they just hang up, try again, and say 15, 20 minutes, and they'll keep going all day long.
[49:57.970 --> 50:00.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do you notice a particular set of hours that you get these calls?
[50:00.550 --> 50:07.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, usually in the daytime, say, like, early morning from 9 until maybe 11.
[50:08.270 --> 50:09.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: And never after 8 o'clock at night, right?
[50:10.350 --> 50:12.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: Uh, no, I don't think so.
[50:12.130 --> 50:18.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: I think it's MCI, to be honest, because that's... they did that to me once, where they just kept calling relentlessly until I picked up the phone.
[50:18.570 --> 50:21.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, but the thing of it is, I didn't... I'd never hear anything hang up.
[50:21.950 --> 50:24.290]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's after the message comes on.
[50:24.330 --> 50:26.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, yeah, because they've hung up before that.
[50:26.970 --> 50:33.770]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right, and the answering machine continues playing its message, so in the period by which your answering machine is playing its recording, the dial tone comes back.
[50:33.770 --> 50:35.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: Here's the way to make it go away, all right?
[50:35.510 --> 50:39.570]  [SPEAKER_23]: And it's not a pleasant way, but the way is to pick up the phone yourself and see who's there.
[50:39.710 --> 50:44.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: And then once you get the poor soul on the other side, you tell them, don't ever call me again.
[50:45.450 --> 50:47.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: And if they do, you can take them to court.
[50:47.890 --> 50:48.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's as simple as that.
[50:48.910 --> 50:49.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: Ah, threaten them to call.
[50:49.610 --> 50:49.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah.
[50:50.050 --> 50:56.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: Isn't there a law in New York State where I could get telemark... prevent telemarketers from calling the number?
[50:57.050 --> 50:57.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: Kind of a...
[50:57.830 --> 51:10.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, you can be put on what's known as a do-not-call list, but to me, that's another risk because you're on another list, and you're on a list of people who don't like to be called, and who knows, you might get, you know, a call from somebody saying,
[51:10.910 --> 51:13.330]  [SPEAKER_23]: hey, I know you value your privacy, so you're going to want to buy this.
[51:14.450 --> 51:17.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: So, yeah, you can ask to be put on that list.
[51:17.890 --> 51:18.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Here's a handy tip, though.
[51:19.110 --> 51:24.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Don't ask to be taken off their list, because if you're taken off their list, then when the new list comes in, you're back on it.
[51:24.950 --> 51:31.150]  [SPEAKER_23]: You know, if you put on a do-not-call list, they have to match it against that do-not-call list, and they have to do that each and every time.
[51:31.550 --> 51:33.090]  [SPEAKER_20]: I'm sorry, but I don't follow you.
[51:33.210 --> 51:35.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: What do you mean, like, I ask not to be...
[51:35.350 --> 51:36.490]  [SPEAKER_23]: There is a list.
[51:36.590 --> 51:52.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: There is a list of people who do not want to be called by telemarketers, and any telemarketer that is, you know, who's applicable to that law has to match the list that they have against the list of people that don't want to be called, and take the people who don't want to be called off their list.
[51:52.510 --> 52:00.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: If you just ask to be taken off the list of the person who called you, fine, they'll wipe you off that list, but then the next time they get an update to their list, you'll be on that again.
[52:00.850 --> 52:05.590]  [SPEAKER_23]: And you won't be on the Do Not Call list, and plus, any other telemarketer will also have your name on their list, you see?
[52:06.350 --> 52:11.350]  [SPEAKER_20]: So, the best thing for me to do then is, like, pick up the phone and just tell them not to give me a call again?
[52:11.470 --> 52:16.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, pick up the phone, find out who it is, tell them to knock it off, and make sure that they do, all right?
[52:16.270 --> 52:17.390]  [SPEAKER_20]: I guess that's the easiest way.
[52:17.470 --> 52:18.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's the easiest and quickest way, yeah.
[52:19.310 --> 52:25.710]  [SPEAKER_20]: Instead of going through that other, going to the mechanism saying, I don't want to be placed on any telemarketer.
[52:25.710 --> 52:26.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: You don't know if it's a telemarketer.
[52:26.850 --> 52:30.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yeah, you can still ask, but, you know, you still have to be put on that list.
[52:30.450 --> 52:33.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: But for the most part, the quickest way is to find out who it is and tell them not to call you again.
[52:34.130 --> 52:37.930]  [SPEAKER_23]: It could also be somebody, you know, saying that, you know, you owe them money or something like that.
[52:38.030 --> 52:39.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: I was about to say, do you want to owe them money?
[52:39.630 --> 52:41.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: A bill collector or something, you know, anything's possible.
[52:42.110 --> 52:42.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think so.
[52:42.590 --> 52:49.550]  [SPEAKER_20]: But, you know, the thing of it is, like, I think I did answer once, and I did, automatically I got a dial tone.
[52:49.750 --> 52:49.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: Mm-hmm.
[52:50.230 --> 52:53.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: Like, I say hello, and then the dial tone comes on.
[52:53.770 --> 52:57.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, then, that could be an automatic machine of some sort.
[52:57.250 --> 53:00.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: Or that could be, as you say, a fax machine, a computer modem, something like that.
[53:01.090 --> 53:08.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: If that's the case, if it keeps calling you, if it keeps calling you, then you have to contact your local telephone company's Annoyance Call Bureau.
[53:08.890 --> 53:10.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: They have to track it down.
[53:10.790 --> 53:11.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: They have to track it down.
[53:12.090 --> 53:12.550]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right?
[53:13.030 --> 53:13.430]  [SPEAKER_23]: All right.
[53:13.470 --> 53:13.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: Thanks for your call.
[53:14.210 --> 53:14.790]  [SPEAKER_23]: We're going to move on.
[53:16.050 --> 53:16.410]  [SPEAKER_23]: Yes.
[53:16.950 --> 53:17.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: Good evening.
[53:17.530 --> 53:17.870]  [SPEAKER_23]: You're on the air.
[53:18.870 --> 53:19.390]  [SPEAKER_23]: Speak up.
[53:19.650 --> 53:19.890]  [SPEAKER_21]: Hello.
[53:20.090 --> 53:20.730]  [SPEAKER_21]: Sorry, I didn't know.
[53:20.830 --> 53:21.050]  [SPEAKER_21]: Okay.
[53:21.050 --> 53:23.490]  [SPEAKER_21]: I want to thank you all for your good work.
[53:25.150 --> 53:34.430]  [SPEAKER_21]: Encourage everyone to support 2600 as they oppose the intrusions of the FBI into every nook and cranny of our lives.
[53:34.590 --> 53:35.070]  [SPEAKER_23]: Uh-huh.
[53:35.190 --> 53:49.050]  [SPEAKER_21]: I've been exploring some of the ramifications of Pacifica board chair Ken Ford's invitation of the FBI into the Pacifica crisis this week.
[53:49.050 --> 53:53.630]  [SPEAKER_21]: As you probably know, Ken Ford is now the chair after David Acosta resigned.
[53:53.750 --> 54:03.350]  [SPEAKER_21]: And he has sent an email to all of his fellow and sister board members saying that those who oppose him will be investigated by the FBI.
[54:03.350 --> 54:05.550]  [SPEAKER_21]: And he encourages people to...
[54:05.550 --> 54:09.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: Is that actually what it said, that anybody who opposes him will be investigated by the FBI?
[54:09.270 --> 54:10.210]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, well, in so much...
[54:10.210 --> 54:11.270]  [SPEAKER_21]: No, well, here's...
[54:11.270 --> 54:13.310]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, I could actually document this.
[54:13.450 --> 54:13.990]  [SPEAKER_21]: It doesn't...
[54:13.990 --> 54:19.470]  [SPEAKER_21]: I was paraphrasing, but he says any threatening emails.
[54:19.850 --> 54:20.970]  [SPEAKER_21]: However, he...
[54:20.970 --> 54:28.290]  [SPEAKER_21]: We then have an example of such an email that he did send.
[54:28.390 --> 54:29.650]  [SPEAKER_21]: So I can just read that to you.
[54:29.650 --> 54:30.870]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, here's the thing.
[54:30.990 --> 54:31.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: Here's the thing, okay?
[54:31.890 --> 54:35.250]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'd like to see, not paraphrasing, but exact quotes from people.
[54:35.430 --> 54:35.670]  [SPEAKER_23]: Okay.
[54:35.670 --> 54:35.730]  [SPEAKER_23]: I appreciate that.
[54:35.730 --> 54:37.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: If somebody says something, quote them.
[54:37.870 --> 54:44.970]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, you know, as far as what you're addressing, someone saying they're going to go to the FBI every time they get a threatening email, I'd rather they expose the email.
[54:45.090 --> 54:48.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: They post the email so that everybody can see, you know, what exactly is going on.
[54:48.850 --> 54:52.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: I want to know who's threatening people, if there are, in fact, people threatening other people.
[54:52.570 --> 54:55.050]  [SPEAKER_23]: Because that kind of thing should not be tolerated by anybody, obviously.
[54:55.310 --> 54:57.630]  [SPEAKER_23]: And I'd be the first to, you know, to say that.
[54:57.710 --> 55:04.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: But to just simply say, you know, vaguely, hey, there are people being threatened, you know, you can ride on that forever without any real evidence.
[55:04.530 --> 55:04.850]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[55:04.930 --> 55:10.390]  [SPEAKER_21]: And actually, you know, with listener donations, Pacifica has hired a PR firm.
[55:10.670 --> 55:21.150]  [SPEAKER_21]: And an allegation of violence and McCarthyite tactics appeared in the June 15th Newsday piece by perspicacious Peter Goodman.
[55:22.010 --> 55:33.150]  [SPEAKER_21]: But the email says, from Carl Russo, R-U-S-S-O of San Francisco, reads, Dear Mr. Ford, your contempt for free speech radio and its supporters is putting a stink on you, old boy.
[55:33.150 --> 55:34.370]  [SPEAKER_21]: Give it up.
[55:34.570 --> 55:36.150]  [SPEAKER_21]: We want real resistance radio.
[55:36.530 --> 55:37.630]  [SPEAKER_21]: Long live Democracy Now!
[55:37.990 --> 55:39.910]  [SPEAKER_21]: Sincerely, Carl Russo, San Francisco.
[55:40.130 --> 55:42.530]  [SPEAKER_23]: And is that, is that, has that been labeled a threatening email?
[55:42.770 --> 55:51.250]  [SPEAKER_21]: So, Carl Russo replies, has anyone, he asked us, has, I'm Dennis with the Pacifica campaign, full disclosure.
[55:51.530 --> 55:54.650]  [SPEAKER_21]: Has anyone else received a reply like this from Ken Ford?
[55:54.850 --> 55:56.550]  [SPEAKER_21]: And it reads, thank you for this email.
[55:56.830 --> 56:01.850]  [SPEAKER_21]: This email is an illegal act and has been forwarded to the FBI for probable prosecution.
[56:02.210 --> 56:04.550]  [SPEAKER_21]: You will soon be contacted by the FBI.
[56:04.850 --> 56:05.290]  [SPEAKER_21]: Oh, wow.
[56:05.350 --> 56:05.890]  [SPEAKER_21]: Have a great weekend.
[56:06.290 --> 56:07.090]  [SPEAKER_23]: Do me a favor.
[56:07.310 --> 56:08.010]  [SPEAKER_23]: Bounce that to me.
[56:08.130 --> 56:11.510]  [SPEAKER_23]: Send me that email, because I can, I can verify, you know, all the headers and things like that.
[56:11.570 --> 56:12.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: See if that's a real piece of email.
[56:13.190 --> 56:13.450]  [SPEAKER_23]: And, uh...
[56:13.450 --> 56:14.270]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right, it's been...
[56:14.270 --> 56:15.230]  [SPEAKER_23]: That's, that's unbelievable.
[56:15.490 --> 56:15.950]  [SPEAKER_23]: A couple times.
[56:16.110 --> 56:16.770]  [SPEAKER_23]: I'd like to see that.
[56:16.890 --> 56:21.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: I mean, somebody sending a piece of email is being threatened with, with, contacted by the FBI.
[56:21.470 --> 56:21.810]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[56:21.990 --> 56:32.370]  [SPEAKER_23]: If it read like, like what you said, I mean, to me, obviously that doesn't sound very threatening at all, but again, not seeing it right in front of me, not knowing the, the exact facts, I can't say for sure.
[56:32.730 --> 56:32.830]  [SPEAKER_23]: Right.
[56:32.830 --> 56:34.910]  [SPEAKER_23]: But if you send it to me, I'll, I'll, I'll gladly look into it.
[56:35.030 --> 56:39.790]  [SPEAKER_21]: I believe it went, it's been cycled through the so-called free pack list, which I'm not a subscriber to.
[56:39.930 --> 56:40.210]  [SPEAKER_21]: Uh-huh.
[56:40.210 --> 56:44.150]  [SPEAKER_21]: One of those freewheeling, uh, slander festivals there.
[56:44.430 --> 56:48.490]  [SPEAKER_21]: But at any rate, the, um, the, the PR firm is, uh, West Hill Partners.
[56:49.050 --> 56:57.810]  [SPEAKER_21]: I think they're, the, uh, the, the partner's name is Michael Powell, no relation to the, the new corporate shill on the FCC, uh, chair.
[56:58.190 --> 57:07.790]  [SPEAKER_21]: However, Michael Powell, I had a very, uh, productive 10-minute conversation with him where he, he used quite a few expletives to, uh, you know, I just wanted to know...
[57:07.790 --> 57:08.470]  [SPEAKER_23]: Well, here's the other thing.
[57:08.530 --> 57:08.990]  [SPEAKER_23]: Here's the other thing.
[57:08.990 --> 57:21.470]  [SPEAKER_22]: And, and then we have to go because we're out of time, but, uh, uh, always record these conversations, you know, always, in fact, I'm happy, I'm happy that, that we're putting up surveillance cameras all over this place because if anything happens again,
[57:21.890 --> 57:28.450]  [SPEAKER_22]: like what happened a few weeks ago with, uh, a reporter from, from the IMC, we'll have it, you know, we'll be able to say, Hey, this is exactly what happened.
[57:28.450 --> 57:38.490]  [SPEAKER_22]: And hopefully, hopefully the listeners and, and everybody out there will also be able to access this information so that, uh, you can't have people being accused of violence who, uh, who have no violent tendencies.
[57:38.770 --> 57:39.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: You know what I mean?
[57:39.410 --> 57:52.710]  [SPEAKER_21]: Well, the, the, the conversation was, uh, was recorded and faithfully transcribed and hasn't been, uh, I haven't sent it out yet because it's, uh, but, but just to know that, that the PR firm they've hired is the same one that tried to trash Jeffrey Wiggins,
[57:52.790 --> 57:56.370]  [SPEAKER_21]: who was a whistleblower, uh, this guy Scanlon from...
[57:56.370 --> 57:56.370]  Okay.
[57:56.470 --> 57:57.410]  [SPEAKER_22]: Listen, we're, we're out of time.
[57:57.590 --> 57:57.810]  [SPEAKER_22]: I'm sorry.
[57:57.970 --> 57:59.970]  [SPEAKER_22]: You know, again, this call's always coming at the end of the show.
[58:00.230 --> 58:04.270]  [SPEAKER_21]: W-B-I-X dot org is having a big event this Saturday in Huntington, Long Island.
[58:04.450 --> 58:06.110]  [SPEAKER_21]: So you can check that out from 11 to four.
[58:06.390 --> 58:06.670]  [SPEAKER_22]: Okay.
[58:07.010 --> 58:07.210]  [SPEAKER_22]: Thanks.
[58:07.390 --> 58:08.010]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, thanks for your call.
[58:08.650 --> 58:13.090]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, we're out of time as, uh, as happens way too fast with this program.
[58:13.490 --> 58:18.570]  [SPEAKER_22]: Uh, but I want to thank everybody for calling in and, uh, for being part of the dialogue and for sending us new stories and things like that.
[58:18.690 --> 58:21.670]  [SPEAKER_22]: Our email address, O-T-H at 2600.com.
[58:22.390 --> 58:24.050]  [SPEAKER_22]: For Isaac, this is Emmanuel Goldstein.
[58:24.050 --> 58:24.150]  [SPEAKER_22]: Good morning.
[58:24.450 --> 58:26.050]  [SPEAKER_22]: Have yourselves a good night.
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