Uh, you know, we never got the recognition.
As a matter of fact-
No, they didn't get the recognition, they got the negative recognition.
Nobody wanted you guys running.
As a matter of fact, the people that did get an award later on were the people on the second
half using the witnesses that we indicted on the first half.
We're out of time, guys.
Shooting the Moon is the book, David Harris is the author, it's a must, an absolute must
for you KPFK listeners, you listeners here in New York, Laura Cavanaugh, my wife, honey,
I'm on the way home, Christina, mucho gracias.
Hasta luego.
Okay, ciao, mi gente.
This is the Expert Witness Radio Show with Michael Levine.
For more information on tonight's show, please visit our worldwide website at www.expertwitnessradio.com.
The Palestinian reality, what's really happening in the Muslim lands, a new memoir by Professor
Laila Ahmed, or Muslim political candidates in the USA, these and more are questions you
can hear discussed on Tahrir, WBAI's magazine of the Arab Muslim community.
Marhaba, I'm Barbara Nimri Aziz, and I'd like you to join me and our Tahrir staff every
Tuesday night at 9 o'clock.
That's Tuesdays from 9 to 10 p.m. here on listener-sponsored WBAI 99.5 FM in New York.
You're sure to find something new, and sometimes, controversy.
Moorish, Orthodox, Radio, Crusade, Tahrir, Tahrir, Tahrir, Tahrir, Tahrir, Tahrir, Tahrir,
New York which is where we are right now it's eight o'clock time once again for
another exciting edition of Off The Hook
I'm now reaching for, by the telescope, a faint presence of the universe
This is Britain
Love your sister and brother
Life, love and unity
Life, love and unity
Yeah, I remember
Yes
Yes
It may not have
Does it have something to do with Britain?
Oh
Oh
Oh, that's what they want
Not bad
Oh, for Hal 2001?
Okay
No
No
Around the world
I'll read you the story first and I'll read you their take on it
Oh no, that's their justification?
That's their justification
People are listening over the internet?
Can you believe this nonsense?
Well, we'll get into why it's nonsense in a moment
But Mark Byford, director of the BBC World Service, stated on the BBC's webpage
In the US, three times as many people listen to us on FM as on shortwave
and one and a half million users access online each month
To meet demand for better quality, the BBC needs to explore new technologies
He stated, the money saved by closing shortwave transmission to North America
will go towards funding this investment in the future
The BBC says it remains committed to shortwave
and is upgrading transmission relay stations in Oman, Cyprus and Singapore
The announcement comes after Swiss Radio International says
it too will phase out shortwave over the next several years
In a message on Radio Nederland's website
that tells listeners not to panic, spokesman Andy Sennett
stated that cost is a big reason to switch off shortwave
Those who listen to international broadcasts
generally contribute nothing toward maintaining them
These costs are borne by the broadcasters
It costs a lot of money to operate a high power shortwave transmitter
There comes a point at which the proportion of listeners relying on shortwave
falls below the level at which the service can be economically justified
He called the BBC decision part of an ongoing strategy assessment
in which all international broadcasters should take part
I like that, he addressed people so they won't panic
Well, I mean, here's the thing
Shortwave has existed now for the better part of the 20th century
I would just say ever
If we could afford to broadcast this in the 1940s
you know, all around the world
Why can we not afford it anymore?
You know, 2001, all of a sudden it's too expensive
I mean, if anything, it should be cheaper
But the real thing is
I got my start
My first exposure to the BBC came on a shortwave radio
which I didn't know was a shortwave radio, actually
I was at my grandparents' house and I was tuning around this radio
This big, huge radio
With stranger numbers on it
And I just, yeah, it had cities printed on it
Those were the really old ones
And I actually heard this guy talking in a British accent
And he was saying that it was the next day
It was like Wednesday, when it was actually Tuesday
And I was wondering, why is he saying it's Wednesday?
And then I realized, wow, this guy is all the way overseas
And that's when the magic started
You know, where you can actually tune a radio
and hear something so far away
And the BBC has a history of really having great programming
as far as news, documentaries, dramatic presentations
all that kind of thing
And that's stuff that you get on shortwave
because anybody can carry a shortwave radio around with them
a handheld one, you can bring it in your car
you can have it at home
And BBC has always been one of the most powerful broadcasters
because actually the transmitters are located in the Caribbean
and in Canada and various places like that
So it's relatively easy to pick up
Now, I really think that by having that voice wiped out
of the shortwave spectrum
a lot of people will never get into shortwave
And shortwave has so many fascinating attributes to it
You can hear all kinds of amazing things
numbers stations
You can hear foreign languages of all different sorts
music from different countries
And just sort of trying to figure out how to get stations
how to pull them in
You know, there are books like the World Radio Television Handbook
where you can figure out what frequency to tune
what time, what language, you know
to actually get a station from a foreign distant land
That magic, I'm sorry, that magic just isn't there
when you click on a webpage
It's not there at all
And when you listen on FM
First of all, it's horribly unfair to say that this is available
I can, right now, for the next three days or so
I can go home, turn on my shortwave radio
and hear the BBC anytime
I cannot do that on an FM radio
There's a radio station, WNYE in Brooklyn
that broadcasts BBC from, I think, 12 to 6 at night
Okay, great, I don't get them where I am
and plus what happens in the daytime
You know, that's only one small part of the spectrum
It's a big mistake
And I really hope people rise up in great numbers
and tell the BBC this is a big mistake
because once it's gone, it's gone
I'm still upset that the CBC took off all their AM stations
I used to listen to them driving around in my car in the United States
Well, now they have more efficient stations
but they only serve the local area
so you can't get them at a distance
Well, that's also the FCC having a problem with the CBC
crossing the border with their transmission
No, the FCC has nothing to say about that
It was perfectly legal what they were doing
I mean, it's called sharing the broadcast spectrum
They were not pressured to go off the air because of the FCC
It was a CBC move towards, I don't know, more efficiency or something
but sometimes you lose a lot with more efficiency
Let me read the Radio World editorial about this
because I think that's got a few interesting points
With its decision to cut shortwave service to North America, Australia, New Zealand
and the Pacific Islands
the BBC is doing what's economical for its service
The BBC is not abandoning shortwave entirely
but it says listeners have migrated away from shortwave
and now tune in via FM, the internet, satellite, cable and mobile devices
You know, a lot of poor people don't have any of those devices
but never mind that
Three times as many people in the United States
listen to BBC on FM as on shortwave
Half a million users access this broadcast online each month
Of course, you could access it for a second and that counts
It's not the same thing as listening on the radio
The BBC is using the money it would have spent
to maintain these aging transmission facilities
to beef up its infrastructure in the Middle East and Asia
where shortwave is still the predominant way listeners hear the service
Given the life expectancy for a typical modern shortwave transmitter
of 20 to 30 years
the BBC seems serious about committing resources
to protect such an infrastructure where it makes business sense to do so
Of course, the BBC was never really a business before
They weren't really thinking that way
We'll just skip over that part for now
While the trimming of shortwave is heart-wrenching
to those who understand the history of broadcast communications
technology changes with the times
It is more important for a broadcast entity
to deliver a message effectively
to meet its defined mission
than to protect its infrastructure for the sake of doing so
Now that's assuming that it's a trade-off
that you can't have the internet
You can't have FM radio if you keep shortwave
and I just don't think that's true
I think these things represent expansion of an existing service
Well, you do have a limited amount of resources
Personnel, technicians, money
I mean, if this is the choice they're being forced to make
But why now?
Why this one particular moment?
I've never even heard anything before this
about the BBC having trouble
with keeping their infrastructure going
I've never heard a single word about it
And they have more revenue than ever now
They sell videotapes
They have American TV channels
They're spreading their audience all over the place
If anything, they should be able to support this
U.S. government broadcasters that send their transmissions overseas
such as The Voice of America
are wrestling with similar questions
When is shortwave the most economical way
to get programming to the widest possible audience?
Where do other methods make sense?
These decisions are being made in a post-Cold War world
with much different needs than in the past
Some would argue that shortwave remains necessary
in countries where people can't afford computers
and mobile devices
such as the United States, maybe
And where governments intentionally interfere
with broadcast for political reasons
such as the United States, for instance
The BBC agrees shortwave...
Well, I consider not being allowed
to access the airwaves interference
but another topic
The BBC agrees shortwave is vital in many areas
and estimates it has a total worldwide
potential listening audience of 153 million
But while shortwave will retain a role for many years
and movement away from it is inevitable
the world's leading broadcast organizations
are wise to consider more efficient ways
of reaching their audience
I think we will have reached that stage
when everybody has that access
but right now I don't think everybody has that access
If they're going for sheer numbers of listeners
dropping shortwave and going to the internet
is probably a bad idea
They have 300,000 listeners per month on shortwave
they've estimated in North America
I don't know how they get those figures
but 300,000 people
Now let's assume those 300,000 people
let's assume even half of those
don't have access to the internet
and not just the internet
but high-speed internet
where you can listen to live audio
or XM which is the satellite
XM series
these are satellite services
that you pay a fee for
to have in your car
and NPR and BBC
they're certain services that you can have
I don't have access to that
Do you have access to that?
I don't think anybody I know has access to that
Then there are some FM stations
some FM stations that carry it
at certain hours
It basically represents a big cutback
a big cutback
You cannot turn on the radio
and listen to one of the most interesting radio broadcasters
I never thought
I keep seeing radio falling apart all around me
but I never thought
that the BBC was going to disappear
anytime soon
and it is disappearing
because I can't access it right now
The way I accessed the BBC
was through my shortwave radio
and that's going to go away
It's disappointing
and I think there's plenty of Kiwis and Aussies
who are going to agree with you
What about Americans?
Well, by definition
a bunch of Americans are going to agree with you
They hear us here
but it's unfortunate
because that shortwave capability of the BBC
that loud booming voice from Britain
was something to be very proud of
and I don't know
I wouldn't agree with the decision
but I don't know all the numbers
that they're working with
I think they at least should have
talked about it a little bit more
I found out about this on July 26th
I mean June 26th
Four days away from July 1st
That's kind of sudden
Anyway
How much does it cost
to maintain a shortwave transmitter anyway?
Couldn't tell you
I imagine it depends on the power
of where the facility is
I mean if you're in the deep dark jungles
of God knows where
it's going to be a lot more
than if you're downtown
and somewhere else
Well, maybe someone can give us some facts on that
Also, I guess it opens up the spectrum to somebody
and maybe somebody else will take it
That's a fairly popular slot actually
Yeah, maybe somebody else
can just simply rebroadcast them
I don't know
Okay, more issues of progress
alleged progress
New Yorkers will no longer be allowed
to chat on their handheld phones
while driving
under legislation passed
by an overwhelming majority
of the state assembly on Monday
Yes, that is the state
not just the city, folks
Yep, so next time I'm late for my show
I want people to talk to you
while I'm driving here
Well, right now you can't do it
in Suffolk County
You have to get into Nassau
As of July 1st
I won't be able to do it
in Nassau either
So what good is the phone again?
What's that?
So what good is the phone again?
It's no good at all
It's no good at all
Now, here's the funny thing
Let me try and find the part
in this article
that was on the New York Times
The bill passed the assembly
by a 125 to 19 vote
Similar bans have been proposed
in 41 other states
in the last two and a half years
but those have so far
failed to pass
Basically, as we said
we have Nassau and Suffolk
leading the way
The bill got an extra boost
in late March
when Quinnipiac University
published a poll
showing that 87% of New York voters
supported the idea
A week later
a week later
Governor Pataki
and the leaders of the Senate
and Assembly
endorsed a prohibition
on the use of handheld cell phones
while driving
Now, it doesn't ban
talking on the phone in a car
It bans holding it to your ear
and having a conversation
It raises all kinds of questions
and if I go out tomorrow
and I buy a plastic cell phone
and just hold it to my ear
while I drive
because I'm just into that kind of thing
am I going to be getting tickets for this?
I'm sure I'll get pulled over all the time
but what if everybody did that?
What if everybody started carrying
a little piece of plastic
that they held to their ear?
I saw an interview
with one of these gentlemen
one of the assemblymen
who is from Brooklyn or something
talking about this legislation
and the question was posed to him
and his response was basically
No, this is just the beginning
Just the beginning?
That frightens me
Just the beginning of what?
Where are we going for this?
Are we talking about
cups of coffee in the morning?
That was the point I was making months ago
is that there are so many ways
that you can be a hazard to traffic
How far is this going to go?
Yelling at your kid in the back seat
Will that become a felony?
Let me continue
The new law would direct
state traffic officials
to analyze the causes of accidents
over the next four years
to determine if cell phones
do cause accidents
Why are they doing it after the law?
Shouldn't they have had the study before
so that they could be sure
that the law is a good thing?
It's to quiet guys like you and me
It would also exempt people
who use their telephones in emergencies
to call police or fire departments
or other authorities
So basically if you get pulled over
I guess make an emergency fast
so you can make a phone call
To your lawyer
Throw a match out the window
and start a brush fire
and say hey I was just reporting that
Anyway
The final bill represented a compromise
worked out last week
between the Governor, Mr. Silver
I don't know who that is
and the Senate Majority Leader, Joseph Bruno
The Republicans who control the Senate
push to have the law take effect this year
rather than phasing it in
over two or three years
as the Assembly had proposed
Now, interesting thing
Even supporters of the ban acknowledge
and this is something
that no one ever talks about
there is scant empirical evidence
linking handheld telephones to accidents
Duh
In 1997
the New England Journal of Medicine
published a study
suggesting that a person
who regularly used a telephone
while driving
was four times more likely
to have an accident
than a driver who did not
Based on what?
Not really based on anything
but an American Automobile Association study
which looked at 32,303 traffic accidents
between 1995 and 1999
found that fiddling with a radio
or tape player
caused far more accidents
than talking on the phone
Of those 32,303 accidents
only 42 could be traced to phone use
Bottom line
you were distracted
you should have been a better driver
and bans like this
they frighten me
I mean, where is this going to stop?
Well, that's enough
Moving on
We have all kinds of listener mail
We'll be taking listener phone calls
in just a couple of moments
Okay, this person says
I was listening to your radio show
that aired on June 19th
that would be one week ago
You talked about Sprint PCS charges and stuff
Yeah, I'm still pretty steaming mad about that
Did you send them your inconvenience bill?
No
Do it
It's a big waste of time
sending Sprint PCS my own bill
Type up a nice letter
$30 inconvenience charge
I'll tell you what
I'll split it with you if you do it
How about that?
I pay for the stamp on the return envelope
The enthusiasm has been wiped from your face
like a stain
It's 34 cents
I mean, come on
No, I'll split what I get back
Oh, the 30 bucks?
Yeah
Oh, okay, cool
In fact, you can send bills to anybody you want
and whatever we get back
you can have half of
How about that?
Not a problem
Just don't tell me about it
Just give me the money
Well, I have discovered something about Sprint PCS
and have been exploiting it for a while
I had a sucky plan
so I called
That's actually one of their plans
the sucky plan
The sucky plan
I threatened to cancel
and they gave me a better plan
Coolness, huh?
Well, then I bought another phone
but the phone plan sucked at that time
so I called and threatened to cancel my existing phone
because I wanted another phone with a better plan
so they gave me a better plan for the other phone
Okay, I'm falling
Good
Then this weekend
I dropped my phone in a cooler
and, of course, it died
Well, yes, that would be expected
Of course, I didn't tell them that
I went to the Sprint PCS store
and they said that they found some kind of moisture
and that voided the warranty
so I was like, fine, okay
Yeah
Later on that day
I called into the Sprint PCS place
and told them that I had my phone
all the time
that I know that I hadn't exposed it to moisture
so I was going to cancel
since they made sucky phones
that, I guess, generate moisture
The Sprint representative's exact words were
Well, what if I could replace your phone for you for free?
Yes, rock on
I knew that's what they were going to tell me
but what about the $34.99 activation charge
to change my phone?
Gone
I didn't even mention that
when the guy told me that
since it's a replacement
I didn't have to pay that charge
Well, mine was a replacement
and I did have to pay that charge
So, the key to Sprint PCS
is to threaten to cancel
Threaten to cancel
They'll want to keep you
They're much more interested in retention
than anything else
I suppose
I wouldn't be going around
making these threats to cancel
so, uh
not inconsistently
was the word I'm looking for
I just, you know
I don't like being nasty
Exactly
I mean, you get what you ask for
if you're nice about it
I like being polite
and getting something that way
that I shouldn't get
For instance, I got a non-refundable plane ticket
refunded this week
because I was nice
You're in a situation that
I also lied through my teeth
but that's, you know
you have to do that sometimes
Look, like I said
I've said this before
I have no problem lying
to anonymous people
on the telephone
if it's, you know
for something I consider
to be justified
So, all you have to do is say
Well, somebody told me
I could do this
and they say
Oh, somebody told you that?
Well, then I guess it's okay
Yeah, Joe on the corner
who was drinking his Coors Light
Right
I mean, the alternative to that
is to simply accept their terms
which, in many cases
are very unfair
Well, those terms are
something you probably agreed with
when you bought the ticket
No, actually, I didn't
I didn't know it was
a non-refundable ticket
when I bought it
Oh, well, then
They don't say that
That might be justified
They say that after you try to
you know, to get some satisfaction
You say, hey, listen
I didn't realize this was
a non-refundable ticket
I got this in the mail, too
To me, this looked like
they were mocking me
The Sprint PCS sent me
a piece of mail saying
Want to, quote
clear, unquote
a $30 service credit?
Give your former Sprint PCS
phone to a friend
It's like they're saying
Yeah, we got you
We heard you
You want your money back?
What do you got to do?
I mean, it's just unbelievable
So if I sucker some other
poor soul into this company
they'll give me $30 back
which isn't the full amount
that they took from me
but apparently that's
the gimmick
You're closer
Yeah, but just the way
they phrased it
Yeah, they want to clear this
Well, again, they're looking
to get someone else
on the network
They're looking to get
people aboard
and to keep them
Here's another letter
on that same subject
I heard about your woes
with Sprint PCS
in regards to your
$34.99 activation charge
I called Sprint to see
if this was really so
and I found a way
around it
According to Sprint PCS
this act of switching services
from one phone
to another phone
is called an ESN change
That is what you did
when you switched
to that new phone of yours
I assume you did this
over the phone
or at a Sprint PCS store
The reason they charged you
the $34.99
was because
you did it through them
According to the person
I talked to over the phone
you can do this
over the internet
free of charge
So basically
you don't get charged
if you do this
via their website
I haven't tried doing
an ESN change
over their website
but according to
the tech support people
hmm
well
I'm not going to be around
to try that again
because
as I said
I'm not going to
ever buy another
Sprint phone again
when this one dies
it
the service dies with it
that's the end of that
Dear OffTheHook
I noticed the
OffTheHook staff
is always running
into horrible
customer service
oh yes
that's certainly true
wherever you go
well
try calling
WorldCom Canada
tech support
you only have to
hit two buttons
to get to a person
you're calling for
dial
web
T1
ISTN
etc
I just thought you'd like
to see what good
customer service
is all about
well let's put this
to the test
what do you think
do you think we'll get
a service representative
quickly
it's after 8
it's after 8
yeah
well that's when
we usually make
these phone calls
oh yeah
I just want to be fair
you know
if the
service is better
up there
let's find out
something wrong
I'll get it
welcome to
WorldCom
you have reached
our customer
network services
department
for English
instructions
please press one
okay this is the
first button
for French
instructions
please press two
I'll press one
you now have
four choices
if you're a
dedicated service
subscriber
service subscriber, please press 2. To review our current network status message and return
to this menu, please press 3. If you're a web hosting subscriber, please press 4.
I'm going to press 2 because that seems to be the most common. And I'm only going to
give this 30 seconds. It is ringing, but we'll go to another recording.
All of our agents are currently busy. Please stay on the line and your...
WorldComCNS, my name is David. Could I have your account name, please?
Oh, you know what? I think I might have gotten the wrong number. Is this the United States?
No, this is Canada.
Canada. You wouldn't happen to have the number for the United States, would you?
You know what? I don't, although I could probably find it pretty quick. Hang on a sec.
Okay. I always keep making this mistake. I don't know why.
No problem.
What city are you located in up there?
We're in Toronto.
Ah.
I'm sure it's 1-800-900, I think it is. Oh, here we go. 1-800-900-0241.
0241. Thank you so much.
You bet. Bye-bye.
Well, not only were they fast, but they were friendly.
Yes.
Very friendly. Very helpful. Let's try the reverse, all right?
The Canada phone.
Now we're going to call the United States.
And what do you think we're going to ask them if we do get a human?
I think we need the number for Kennedy.
Canada? What's that?
Can-a-what?
All right. Let's see what happens. We're not going to pass judgment.
For quality assurance, this call may be monitored.
Thank you for calling UUNET's Technical Support Center.
Please listen carefully to the following menu options.
If you know the menu selections, you may interrupt at any time during this recording.
Is this going to a tin can or something?
Or if you're calling from a rotary phone,
please stay on the line and your call will be answered in the order it was received.
If you know the extension of the person you are calling, press 8.
To listen to a menu of technical support options, press 2.
To reach accounting, press 3.
To reach sales, press 4.
Or for any other matters, press 0.
I think 2 is the closest to what we did before, technical.
Yes.
Okay. Here we go.
If you are a multi-meg, EU secure VPN, or managed CPE customer, press 1.
If you are a dial-up or ISDN customer, press 2.
Okay. That's the one.
If you are a T1 friend, please listen carefully as the menu options have recently changed.
Ah, more menus.
If you have a UUDial, Solo, dial-up account, or an ISDN UUDial office account
and are having problems connecting to the Internet
or have questions regarding pop mail or newsreaders, please press 1.
For questions regarding domain name service, domain registration,
SMTP mail, or UUCP mail, please press 2.
For questions regarding current or additional IP networks, please press 3.
To change customer contact information, please press 5.
What about 4? Okay, which one do I press?
Try 1.
1.
UUCP mail.
If you have a single-user UUDial, Solo account, please press 1.
If you have an ISDN UUDial office account
or modem.
We're low-end.
Nothing's happening.
For quality, this call may be monitored.
I already heard that.
All right.
Hopefully, we're getting somewhere.
WorldCom DASport, this is Robert with Solosport.
How can I help you?
Oh, I'm sorry.
I think I might have made a mistake.
Is this the United States or Canada?
The U.S.
Do you have the number for the Canadian WorldCom?
Canadian help desk?
Yeah.
Sure, hold on one second.
Thank you.
Are you looking for WorldCom or Unionet?
WorldCom.
Actually, I think WorldCom is Unionet, isn't it?
Yeah, but Unionet's more the Internet service,
whereas WorldCom's going to be...
I mean, Unionet's more or less like a subdivision of WorldCom.
Uh-huh.
I mean, recently, they were...
And you're also related to MCI, right?
Yeah, WorldCom bought MCI, and Unionet was part of MCI.
Okay.
It's all one big happy family.
Yeah.
And I'm in the wrong country.
And I'm in the wrong country.
Hold on one second.
Okay.
Try this number here, 188-689-5565.
Okay, thank you so much.
Sure, no problem.
All right.
Okay, they both get high marks.
Yeah, I think I know where I'm getting my next nationwide dial-up account.
Maybe that merger wasn't so bad after all.
You see, large corporate conglomerates can be friendly.
You know, I've been convinced now.
That one little demonstration was enough to convince me.
Even at 8 o'clock at night, you know, there's someone there to talk to.
I'm looking for the piece of email that I got before
that I used to make this phone call.
Oh, to compare if it's the right number?
No, the phone number was right.
Oh, I'm writing on the back of it, of course.
Yeah, that is the same number.
It's the same number?
That is the same number.
No, actually, no, it's different.
I'm sorry, it's similar, but it's different.
All right, so it might be an extension to Hunt Group or something.
Yeah.
We could keep this up all night and call them and get another number.
Yeah, but it gets kind of tiring.
Yeah, let's continue with the radio program.
Our telephone number is 2-2-2-0-9-2-9-100.
And we have all kinds of other things going on as well.
Hey, did you listen to the radio show yesterday, Gary Null's report?
No, I missed it.
Oh, it was really, really good.
In fact, I can direct people to where they can listen to it,
and I direct you to listen to it as well.
Basically, it was a two-hour interview with various people involved in the Pacifica affair.
And I was listening to this program, and I was riveted to it.
I really was.
It's probably one of the best examples of what radio can do that I've heard in the last several months,
where basically we just talk about the problems that are going on here in an open manner.
Hopefully, it will continue this way.
It used to be a three-part series starting on Friday, going until today.
It was postponed until Monday, and now it's been changed to be a weekly thing,
Mondays from, I think, 12 to 1.
But basically, if you go to www.radioforall.net
and just look for the Gary Null piece on WBAI and Pacifica, you'll find it that way.
It's a really good piece, I think, and something that I hope we continue at this place,
just talking things over, healing process.
I think that's what we need to do is actually address issues
and do them in such a way that people respect other viewpoints.
There are a couple of interesting things, and one of which I intend to find out more about.
He was talking about how it was difficult for him to put together this report,
hacked into his computer, and took the report.
If I understood it correctly, that's what it is.
The expression that you have on your face right now is the expression that I had inside me when I heard this,
because where do we see this kind of scenario unfold?
In Hollywood, on TV, in books.
As people involved in the hacking world,
people are always coming up to us saying,
My ex-husband has hidden all this information.
Can you hack into his computer and get this information for me?
On TV, that works.
On TV, you can direct yourself towards an individual person,
towards an individual bit of information, and it's always there.
You can just grab it.
With lots of graphics and colorful lights.
Yeah, and your face appears on their screen when you're doing it.
Right, right.
It's really silly.
I'm not in any way saying that something did not happen here,
but I want to know what happened.
I think we need to have full disclosure.
There are all kinds of indications that people are being threatened.
People on the other side of the Pacifica issue,
people who are in faraway distant cities on the Pacifica national border,
getting threatening phone calls.
Well, if anyone out there is getting a threatening phone call,
this is what they need to do now.
They need to dial star 77 on their phones.
What that will do, that will allow you to only receive phone calls from numbers that show themselves.
Now, when such a threatening phone call comes in, reveal the phone number.
Let's get all that information out there.
Let's find out who's doing this.
Because to castigate the entire, say, Pacifica movement
as people who are doing this kind of a thing,
it makes as much sense as saying Yasser Arafat's responsible
for every single bomb that goes off in the Mideast.
Obviously the guy has no control,
or not as much control as some would like to think.
Imagine how easy it is when you have an open group of people,
where anybody can walk in off the street and be part of it.
One person goes nuts and says all kinds of nasty things,
and that person suddenly is representing the entire movement.
It's a very difficult thing.
But in any event, it's a fascinating two hours of interviews.
Yesterday it was extended to two hours.
Again, go to www.radio4all.net.
That's R-A-D-I-O number 4-A-L-L dot net.
Also there is an analysis of that show on another website.
www.wbix.org is an internet radio station
having to do with BAI issues.
Yeah, that's right.
That's an internet radio station dealing with the on-air radio station.
It's amazing. It really is.
And there are a lot of interesting things on that station as well,
which unfortunately is only on the internet right now.
But who knows? That might change.
Maybe they'll take over the BBC's transmitters.
All right.
Go down there and just grab them.
What else?
Oh, I want to read this too, and then we'll take some phone calls.
You remember we talked about this a few weeks ago,
about the kid in New Jersey who killed himself
because he was accused of hacking and was afraid of going to prison.
This has been circulating.
This is from his school.
Petition for changes to suspension policy.
If you have any comments on any of these,
please feel free to butt in and say something.
But basically there are seven points about the suspension policy.
West Windsor Plainsboro School District should have a district-wide,
publicly accessible written set of guidelines for suspensions
if such does not already exist.
As you recall, he was suspended for a phenomenal amount of time.
I'm not sure how many days it was, but it was a lot.
Enough to permanently set you back in your school career.
Number two, if a suspension is given,
there should be a written document describing the reason
and evidence for the suspension,
and a copy of the document should be given to the parents of the student involved.
Number three, suspensions should not be made on the basis of hearsay,
rumor, or information extracted through physical
or psychological coercion of the students.
Suspensions should only be made on the basis of clear evidence,
such as eyewitness testimony.
Number four, threats of legal or punitive action,
such as prosecution, pressing charges, or lawsuits,
should not be made to the student.
If there is to be possible legal action,
then this information should be conveyed to the parents
or their legal counsel.
You okay with this so far, Isaac?
I'm following. I'm going to reserve comment.
Why are you going to reserve comment?
It makes it interesting when you comment.
No, no. I understand why they're doing this, but...
Well, it would be nice if they did this before,
it might have saved their life.
I don't think it would have.
Well, who knows.
Number five, if a student is to be interrogated
they should be notified in advance
and given the opportunity to be present during the interrogation.
I can't believe interrogation is taking place in schools,
but yeah, everybody who goes to school knows
that's the kind of thing that goes on.
Number six, suspension should not be handed out
for trivial offenses and should be reserved
for cases where there is a physical, that is, assault,
or psychological danger, such as extreme bullying,
to other students.
And number seven, where there is no physical
or psychological danger or threat to other students,
alternatives should be explored,
such as counseling for the students, community, or school service.
Suspension should be considered only as a last resort.
And that's the bleeding heart proposal there,
to make things better in our schools.
You have nothing to say about it, eh?
All right. Nope. Okay.
Well, maybe our listeners do.
Again, phone number 212-209-2900.
Switchboard's still acting a little wacky,
but we'll get through it.
The whack-a-mole switchboard.
Let's try this one. Good evening, you're on the air.
Okay, couple things.
About what you said about the BBC
no longer broadcasting in North America,
I don't like it any more than you do.
But I should say that they did give more notice
than just today.
I heard about it, oh, maybe three to four weeks ago,
and I don't know where, but it was on radio.
You should have told us.
Yeah, well, I'm sorry.
Then we would have told all these other people,
and maybe we could have done something about it.
I don't like it one bit either.
I got a shortwave radio
maybe about six months ago, nine months ago.
I mean, I'm a rank beginner.
I know nothing about it, but what I did is
I got a used shortwave radio.
It's a realistic DX440,
about 11 inches by about 7 inches
by about 2 inches deep, you know, a hand-held type.
And I hooked it up,
and I got about maybe 100 feet or so of wire
and wrapped around, you know,
where the wall meets the ceiling in my room,
you know, to get a big antenna there,
and that's all I did.
I really have no idea why.
I'm not the type who's going to hunt down
hard-to-find stations.
I just want to get some interesting foreign news.
Well, okay, where are you located?
In New Jersey, central Jersey.
Are you in an urban area?
No.
Okay, well, the direction that you're...
Do you have a long wire antenna,
or you just attach it to the wall?
I just bought 100 feet of wire,
you know, inflated wire,
and I ran it all around two rooms
of the radio.
Well, the best way...
I know nothing about, you know,
the quality of your receiver,
so that could always be the problem,
but the best way to get shortwave
is to have a simple long wire
that goes in one particular direction.
Now, if your long wire...
Just straight?
Yeah, just straight,
and the longer, the better, obviously.
So if you have, say, a tree outside your house,
you just want to connect it to that
and you run it east-west,
you'll get primarily north-south.
If you're looking for European stations,
I would suggest running it north-south.
That's what I've done.
I get really good reception.
Okay, because I'm not the type,
as I say, who's going to hunt down
hard-to-reach stations.
I just want to get some interesting
foreign news, hopefully in English.
Well, you know, the thing is,
everybody would say, such as the BBC,
and now we can't say that anymore.
Yeah, that's not enough.
I want to hear them right now,
well, after the show, but the point is
you should be able to do it anytime you want.
Thanks.
I think it's a big mistake. I really do.
Hopefully they'll reconsider this.
I don't know if we have any say,
but maybe if enough people contact them,
I'm sure there's an address on their website,
www.bbc.co.uk.
Correct.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Good evening, Manuel. Good evening, gentlemen.
Three things. Number one,
if you notice that the cell phone bill
was supported by the cell phone industry,
and I think that that was because,
look, they get to get you for another
$12 to $15 for an accessory.
Well, according to the stories I read,
according to the stories I read,
the cell phone industry was lobbying
against it with all kinds of commercials.
I've heard both. I've heard what you say,
too, where they want to sell you
the extra accessories.
I think they get it good either way.
Ah, of course.
No, I must have missed that one.
Wow, you're in trouble.
Yeah, you know,
you may have fun around,
but you guys never purposely
steal people's things.
But one of the things
mentioned in the article, two websites
that quote-unquote hold hackers' hands
while they invade your computer.
Oh, great.
I was looking at these things and going,
you know, I don't know about these guys,
but I have this
thinking, feeling that
it was taken totally out of context
of what these sites
were actually listed for.
Take a look at the article and maybe even
surf the site. You might even know them.
I don't know. But take a look
and let us know, because I think
it was kind of dumb for them
to say so.
Yeah, but not unexpected.
I'll check it out.
It's got a real bad name,
and it's totally in the media's hands.
They're looking to sensationalize it
and get more readers.
99% of the time when someone says something
stupid like that, they've got something to sell,
whether it's their publication, whether it's their security,
or whether it's a conference
they want you to go to or something where you can discuss
these problems. 99% they're
trying to sell something, and that's what they get
out of defaming people.
Thanks. Thank you very much. Have a good night.
212-209-2900.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Hi. I just had a couple of quick things.
And you're calling from a cell phone, aren't you?
Exactly. I hope you're not driving.
No, I'm driving, and it feels so good.
Well, enjoy it while you can.
Well, I'll tell you, it's a certain kind of freedom.
I'm also chewing gum.
How can you do
both of those things at once?
That's next.
My parents raised me right.
I have the skills for living,
thanks to public school.
May I ask what county you're in or what state you're in?
I'm actually just crossing the line.
I'm 95 in Connecticut.
You're safe for now.
That's right. I feel it.
And the other thing was,
if you can stand one more comment
about Sprint PCS.
I have always found that the
employees in the stores
will give you all the inside tips on how to get
better customer service, how to get money back.
I don't know if they're intimidated by
having to actually deal with you face-to-face
or if they're just kinder souls,
but anytime I've had a problem
with weird charges or trying to get
new phones and get rid of activation
fees, the guys in the stores are always a great
tip on how to sort of psychologically
or socially engineer the
phone operators, so I highly recommend it.
If you're looking for a real challenge, try the one in Times Square,
the big Sprint PCS center there,
because I don't think they want to
prove anything to anybody.
I stick with the ones in the suburbs.
Yeah, the suburbs tend to be nicer, but
boy, talk about attitude. They invented it there.
Thanks for the show.
Thanks for your call.
212-209-2900. Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello? Yes, go ahead. Hey, Emanuel, how are you doing?
Pretty good. How are you? I'm in Pittsburgh.
I'm listening to you on shortwave, and I just
wanted to mention to you, actually,
for that one guy... So we're actually
rebroadcast on a shortwave station.
That's incredible. You see, people actually do listen to
shortwave, and lots of times you don't even know what's on.
Right. Well, I just wanted to mention
to the one guy who was wondering
about how to pick up shortwave stations.
A great, great
resource for this is Monitoring Times.
Oh, yes.
If you're looking at how to make
different types of antennas and different things like that
and different projects to do.
I also wanted to just mention the cell phone thing,
which I think is really scary,
just because once one state goes,
every other state goes after that.
So whatever happened to
old-fashioned libertarianism?
I agree.
I'm waiting for the speed limits to come back up.
So hopefully
we'll come like Montana
sometime and have no speed limit
at all.
Well, I don't know if Montana is exactly the example of the
Enlightenment capital of the world, but I see your point.
All right. Well, Montana, he's
right. Montana basically said, you know,
this road, you can do a reasonable speed.
Didn't they change that? I thought they did.
Yeah, they did, after a great deal of pressure.
So it's no longer an example at all, is it?
Well, it's an example of the last holdout, I suppose.
Yeah. All right. 202-209-2900.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Hello. Yes, go ahead.
Hi. This is Albert
from Brooklyn. I have a problem
with my telephone service, and I was wondering
if you can offer me some advice.
Well, this is the situation.
I get calls on my phone, like
say, from several times
a day, say from three to ten
times or even more times, like
every two or three days.
And, like, when the phone
comes on, the answering machine comes on,
and then after the message and the beep,
I get a long dial tone.
And I called my
phone company to see if they could resolve this,
and they seem unable to
resolve it.
I was wondering if you could offer me some advice
other than changing the number of my
phone.
How many times is this happening?
At least, like from, say,
three up to maybe
ten or fifteen times a day
every two or three days.
Basically, someone's calling you and hanging up, is what the problem is.
Well, I don't think it's that.
I suspect it might
be an attempted fax
transmission or an
internet connection, because I know, because it happened
to me once, because I tried to connect to
the internet, and instead of getting a
connection to the internet, I got someone picking up
the line. It's most likely a machine of some
sort trying to do something over and over again.
Have you tried Star 69 on this?
Yes, I did try
Star 69, and I get a message
saying that the number is unknown.
Okay, so it's probably coming from out of the area.
There are a couple possibilities here, and I've gotten
these, too. Sometimes telemarketers
will call you from states that
are far, far away, and they always have unavailable
numbers, so they are able to break through
the anonymous call rejection,
because anonymous call rejection simply blocks
private numbers, doesn't block numbers that are
out of the area.
So, lots of times what happens is, if they
get an answering machine, they just hang up, try
again in, say, fifteen, twenty minutes,
and they'll keep going all day long. Do you notice a
particular set of hours that you get these calls?
Well, usually in the daytime,
say, like late,
early morning from nine
until maybe eleven.
And never after eight o'clock at night, right?
No, I don't think so.
I think it's MCI, to be honest, because that's
they did that to me once, where they just kept
calling relentlessly until I picked up the phone.
Yeah, but the thing of it is, I'd never hear
anything hang up. It's
after the message comes on.
Well, yeah, because they've hung up
before that.
The answering machine continues playing its message, so
in the period by which your answering machine is playing
its recording, the dial-down comes back.
Here's the way to make it go away. It's not a pleasant way,
but the way is to pick up the phone yourself
and see who's there. And then
once you get the poor soul on the other side,
you tell them, don't ever call
me again. And if they do,
you can take them to court.
It's as simple as that.
Isn't there a law in New York State
where I could
prevent telemarketers from calling the number?
Is there any kind of...
Yeah, you can be put on what's known as a
do-not-call list, but
to me, that's another risk,
because you're on another list, and you're on a list
of people who don't like to be called, and
who knows, you might get a call from
somebody saying, hey, I know you value your privacy,
so you're going to want to buy this.
So, yeah, you can ask
to be put on that list. Here's
a handy tip, though. Don't ask to be taken
off their list, because if you're taken off their list,
then when the new list comes in, you're back
on it. If you're put on a do-not-call
list, they have to match it against that do-not-call
list, and they have to do that each
and every time. I'm sorry, but I don't
follow you. What do you mean?
I asked not to be... There is a list.
There is a list of people
who do not want to be called by telemarketers,
and any telemarketer
that is applicable
to that law has to match
the list that they have against the list of
people that don't want to be called, and take the
people who don't want to be called off their list.
If you just ask to be taken off the list
of the person who called you, fine, they'll wipe you
off that list, but then the next time they get
an update to their list, you'll be on that
again. You won't be on the do-not-call list,
and plus, any other telemarketer will also have your
name on their list, you see.
So, the best thing for me to do, then, is
pick up the phone... Just pick up the phone, yeah.
...and give me a call again? Yeah, pick up the phone, find out
who it is, tell them to knock it off, and
make sure that they do. All right?
I guess that's the easiest way. That's the easiest and quickest
way, yeah. Instead of going through that
other... going to the
mechanism saying, I don't want to be placed
on any telemarketer? You don't know if it's a telemarketer.
Yeah, you can still ask, but
you know, it starts to be put on that list.
But for the most part, the quickest way is to find
out who it is and tell them not to call you again.
It could also be somebody, you know, saying that
you owe them money or something like that. I was about to
say, do you owe them money? A bill collector or something.
You know, anything's possible.
But, you know, the thing of it is, like,
I think I did answer once,
and I did... automatically
I got a dial tone.
I say hello, and then the dial tone
comes on. Well, then
that could be an automatic
machine of some sort. That could be, as you say,
a fax machine, a computer modem, something
like that. If that's the case, if it keeps
calling you, if it keeps calling you,
then you have to contact the...
your local telephone company's annoyance call bureau.
They have to track it down.
They have to track it down. All right?
All right, thanks for your call.
Let's move on.
Yes. Good evening. You're on the air.
Speak up. Hello. Sorry, I didn't
know. Okay. I want to
thank you all for your good work.
Encourage everyone
to support 2600 as
they oppose the
intrusions of the FBI into
every nook and cranny of our lives.
I've been exploring
some of the ramifications
of
Pacifica board chair
Ken Ford's
invitation of the FBI into
the Pacifica crisis
this week. As you probably know,
Ken Ford is now the chair
after David Acosta resigned, and he
has sent an email
to all of his fellow and sister board
members saying that
those who oppose him will be
investigated by the FBI,
and he encourages people to... Is that
actually what it said? That anybody who
opposes him will be investigated by the FBI?
Well, I could actually
document this. It doesn't...
I was paraphrasing, but
any threatening
emails. However,
we then have an example
of such an email
that he did send.
I can just read that to you.
Here's the thing. I'd like
to see, not paraphrasing, but exact
quotes from people. If somebody says something,
quote them.
As far as what you're addressing,
someone saying they're going to go to the FBI every time they get a threatening
email, I'd rather they expose
the email. They post the email so that everybody
can see what exactly is
going on. I want to know who's threatening people
if there are, in fact, people threatening other people
because that kind of thing should not be tolerated by anybody,
obviously, and I'd be the first to
say that. But to just simply
say vaguely,
hey, there are people being threatened,
you can ride on that forever without any real evidence.
Right. And actually, with
listener donations, Pacifica
has hired a PR firm
and an allegation of
violence and McCarthyite
tactics appeared in the
June 15th Newsday piece by
a perspicacious
Peter Goodman.
But the email says
from Carl Russo, our USSO
of San Francisco, reads, Dear Mr.
Ford, your contempt for free speech radio
and its supporters is putting a stink
on you, old boy. Give it up.
We want real resistance radio.
Long live democracy now. Sincerely,
Carl Russo, San Francisco.
Has that been labeled a threatening email?
So Carl Russo replies,
he asked us,
I'm
Dennis with the Pacifica campaign,
full disclosure, has anyone else
received a reply like this from Ken Ford?
And it reads, Thank you for this email.
This email is an illegal act
and has been forwarded to the FBI
for probable prosecution.
You will soon be contacted by the FBI.
Have a great weekend.
Do me a favor. Bounce that to me. Send me that
email because I can verify
all the headers and things like that, see if that's a real piece
of email.
That's unbelievable. I'd like to see
that. Somebody sending a piece of
email is being threatened with
being contacted by the FBI. If it
read like what you said,
to me, obviously, that doesn't sound
very threatening at all, but again,
not seeing it right in front of me, not knowing
the exact facts, I can't say for sure.
But if you send it to me, I'll
gladly look into it. I believe it's been cycled through
the so-called free pack list, which I'm not
a subscriber to. It's
one of those freewheeling
slander festivals there.
At any rate, the
PR firm is West Hill Partners.
I think
the partner's name is
Michael Powell, no relation to the
new corporate shill on the FCC
chair.
However, Michael Powell, I had a very
productive ten-minute conversation
with him where he used quite a few
expletives.
I just wanted to know...
Here's the other thing, and then we have to go because we're out of time.
Oh, no.
Always record these conversations.
Always. In fact,
I'm happy that we're putting
up surveillance cameras all over this place because
if anything happens again, like
what happened a few weeks ago with a
reporter from the IMC, we'll have it.
We'll be able to say, hey, this is exactly what happened.
Hopefully, the listeners
and everybody out there will also be able to
access this information so that you can't
have people being accused of violence who
have no violent tendencies.
You know what I mean?
The conversation was
recorded and faithfully transcribed
and I haven't sent
it out yet.
Just to know that the PR firm they've hired
is the same one that tried to trash Jeffrey Wiggins,
who was a whistleblower.
This guy, Scanlon.
Listen, we're out of time. I'm sorry.
These calls always come in at the end of the show.
WBIX.org is having a big event this
Saturday in Huntington, Long Island,
so you can check that out from 11 to 4.
Okay. Thanks for your call.
We're out of time.
This happens way too fast
with this program, but I want to thank
everybody for calling in and for being part of the dialogue
and for sending us news stories and things like that.
Our email address, oth at 2600.com
For Isaac, this is Manuel Goldstein.
Have yourselves a good night.
And instead of being in black and blue
They're saying it's life
But I'm taking the blame
They're saying it's life
But I'm taking the blame
When I got a football
I'd get in trouble
If we went the same
And when I got a word
I'd be in trouble again
They're saying it's life
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