People think comic book is nothing, but comic book shoots right across young culture in
America.
It shoots right to the kids.
It hits key kids who are decision makers in their groups.
Comic books are read by people who read.
Comic books are commented on by people who think.
They're not for stupid people, and they're not for ignorant people, and they're not for
non-leaders.
They are for everybody, but from my experience, they go directly to people who have things
to say, who will have things to say in the future, and the fact that they're being done
the way they are, and the fact that they're being done by people who really care about
what's going on in America is, I believe, is going to make a difference, and it's not
a small thing that's happening there, and I'm very happy to see it happen.
That was Neil Adams speaking on an early episode of Nuff Said.
To hear a thought-provoking and entertaining discussion on the subject of comics, tune
in every Tuesday night at 10 p.m. for Nuff Said here on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM, and visit
our website, NuffSaid.net, for our upcoming schedule of guests.
See you there.
And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI New York, where the time is either two o'clock
in the morning or eight o'clock, depending on where you are, and that means it must be
And a very good evening to all, and actually a very good morning from where I'm standing.
I'm standing on a cell phone.
I'm on a GSM cell phone right now.
This is the height of stupidity inside a phone booth.
But the GSM cell phone is very cool in and of itself, because you just hopped on a plane
and it worked.
Yeah, yeah, well, I have the tri-band.
Actually, let me show you something really cool, all right?
Otherwise, I'm going to put you on hold, and listen to what happens.
You're going to put us on hold?
Your call has been placed on hold.
Please hold the line.
You're going to put us on hold?
Your call has been placed on hold.
Please hold...
You there?
Yeah, it's a little less irritating when you do it.
I mean, if this were some large corporation I was calling, you know, that tends to be
really bothersome.
But that was pleasant music.
See, I can't hear it, so I don't know exactly what happened.
Why don't you describe it for me?
Well, we had this operator speak to us in Norwegian, telling us that our call is being
placed on hold.
And then she told us in English that our call is being placed on hold, and they had this
really nice little jazz ensemble thing going on.
Now, somehow, somehow that happens on my phone when I put somebody on hold.
It's kind of weird.
Like a call waiting thing?
GSM is capable of doing so many different things that we don't do in the United States.
It can switch among all different companies.
Like, for instance, when I was in Holland at one point, I had a choice of four different
companies that I could choose from at any point, and they all do different things.
In this particular case, I had two companies in Norway, and one of them, whenever I put
a call on hold, it just puts hold music on.
And that can be very annoying to some people, but the fact that it's a capability of the
phone or the phone network is just something interesting and something that we don't take
full advantage of.
No doubt.
But just to show how stupid this whole thing is, I'm giving out the phone number now.
If people want to call this place on, they're welcome to, and maybe I can take some phone
calls after the show from people who want to call in to Norway.
I don't think hell is going to show up on your phone bill, though, because the way they
do it here in Norway is they have a particular phone number that you call, and then after
you call that phone number, you enter a special six-digit code, and that rings the pay phone.
I don't know why they do it that way, but that's how it works.
We never even got that far.
I'm sorry?
We never even got that far.
No, we never did.
The country code is 47, so if you're in the United States, you dial 01147, and then the
number that you dial after that is 82000220, all right?
And then after all that, you'll hear some guy speaking in Norwegian for a bit.
He's basically asking you to key in some numbers.
I think you have to wait for him to finish before you actually key in the numbers, and
the numbers in this case are 601226.
Let's see if anybody can do that and make the phone that is in the phone booth with
me ring and interrupt the entire show.
Well, we'll hear that, and that'll be interesting.
Yeah.
That's what switching pay phones sounds like when it rings, like for real.
Have you actually heard it ring yet, or are you just ...
Actually, yes, I have, because I tested this myself.
As always, I test these things before ...
Before the air.
Before the thing works.
Actually, can you hold on one second?
Yeah, sure.
Put us back on hold.
Do some filler for a moment.
Okay.
Din samtale er så på vending.
Vending på linjen.
Your call has been placed on hold.
Please hold the line.
The last time I was put on hold, they didn't have music, and I started humming to myself
and whistling to myself, and it turned out that I wasn't actually on hold, but I was
just ...
You're back.
Oh, you're back?
Well, let me finish my story, at least.
I wasn't actually on hold.
I was just muted, and when the woman came back, she started singing along with the song,
and it was kind of distracting, but we actually went on for a couple of minutes,
going through this little tune, and it was somewhat amusing.
So you've got to be careful.
For instance, I was having a lot of fun, but if you're cursing someone out,
they may just have you on mute.
That's pretty amazing.
So, yeah, here I am in Norway.
It's been really weird.
This has literally been the longest day of my life, because as of last Thursday,
Thursday I was in Holland.
I woke up at six in the morning.
Don't ask why.
I guess my sense of time just got all messed up by traveling.
That would be called jet lag.
You have to be really careful talking over me, because I'm far away.
Yeah, I understand.
There's a delay.
You get the satellite effect.
Yeah.
So anyway, I woke up at six in the morning, and I have not seen nighttime since then.
That has been up the whole time for me ever since that point,
because on that day I traveled to Norway, then up to Bodø,
or I think you pronounce it Bodø,
which is one of the most northern cities in Norway,
and the sun does not go down there.
At least it doesn't get dark up there pretty much throughout the summer.
I went further up to a town called Tromsø, and that's a really nice place.
I strongly suggest people go up there.
It's the most northern university town that exists in the world.
It's really interesting, because in the winter,
when all the students are there, it's completely dark.
It's always dark, but there's lots of nightlife, I guess, because it's always night.
So it's a really interesting place to visit.
I wish I could have spent more time there, but very lively.
I didn't expect it to be so full of life that far up.
In fact, there are trees that far up.
If you look on the map, you can see how far up this is.
It's above anything in Canada.
It's above most cities in the world.
But yet, because of the Gulf Stream, there's plenty of warm air,
so it doesn't get completely frozen, and in the summertime it's quite nice.
So hell isn't frozen over?
Well, hell is actually not in the northernmost part.
It's actually traveled down quite a bit now, near Trondheim,
which is just a bit north of Oslo,
but it's by no means the furthest north of Norway.
It's not above the Arctic Circle or anything like that.
I thought I was going to get paid for this show.
Okay.
Come on, folks. Hell freezes over. I get paid for this show.
Never mind. Okay.
So how cold is it up there, actually?
Get it all out of your system.
How cold is it? It's really not that cold.
It's summertime, so it's not hot.
I'd say probably like in the 50s or 60s.
All right. So it's a lukewarm hell.
Yeah. It's kind of windy up in the north area.
But it has an effect on you when the sun is just always up,
or when it's always daytime.
I'm looking forward to night.
I think tomorrow, when I go down to Oslo, it'll be night.
Finally. Darkness. Sky. Stars. That kind of thing.
So the sun sets as you change your latitude.
That's always very interesting.
Yeah. Yeah. That's how it works.
Same kind of way in Alaska.
We've had some interesting developments going on
in the past week since last week.
You recall the case of the guy who offended Adobe with the DMCA
and all that kind of thing?
Yeah. I was kind of there.
I'm familiar. Yes.
Are you familiar with the fact that there were massive demonstrations
all across the United States yesterday?
No, I was not.
How is it that I'm standing here in hell,
and I know about this, and you're in New York
where one of the demonstrations took place,
and you don't know about this?
I live in a cave on Mars with my head in the sand.
Hopefully we'll be hearing from Mike, who is there,
who's supposed to be calling in tonight
and letting us know what that was all about.
He was at the one in California where I think
over a hundred people showed up
outside Adobe headquarters.
Are Mike from New York?
Yes. Went to California?
And there was a demonstration in New York
that drew about 30 people.
That was outside the New York Public Library,
which coincidentally and conveniently
is right across the street
from Adobe headquarters in New York.
Wasn't that nice?
We couldn't have asked for better luck there.
Now, if you look at our website today,
www.twentyseconds.com, you'll see
there's a story out there
saying that Adobe is now calling
for Dimitri to be released from prison.
Now, we don't know where he is.
We still don't know where this guy is
who was taken into custody
following the DEF CON conference
where he gave a presentation
that allegedly violated the DMCA
or the program that he distributes
violated the DMCA.
Just one of many things that we know
are going to start happening
now that the Digital Millennium Copyright Act
is being enforced left and right.
Now people are going to start going to prison for it.
It's a really scary thing.
A lot of people have been asking me about this
because they really can't believe the garbage
that we come up with over there.
And it's hard for me to explain it, you know?
I mean, it's really frustrating.
It's really frustrating being an American over here.
I was in a taxi on the way over here
and I told the guy I was American.
You know what he did?
He turned on the radio to a country music station
thinking that was going to make me more comfortable.
That's nice of him.
Yeah, it was nice of him.
But I mean, that's how we're viewed
as a bunch of country music buffoons.
I don't know if buffoon gets attached
to country music listener, you know?
I'm kind of a fan of Y-107.
It's the only source here.
That's my point.
Let's not dwell on it, all right?
Anyway, it's really interesting.
You should head over to this part of the world sometime.
I say this to just about everybody
because it really puts things in perspective.
First of all, for me,
it makes me feel a lot more sane and relaxed.
Like, for instance, right now
I'm standing at a train station
and I was able to drive my car,
which I was able to rent,
without any hassle whatsoever.
I'll get into that in a second.
But I drove the car right up to the train platform.
It's like right on the platform.
Can you imagine doing that in the United States?
You'd never get away with that, you know?
You drove it onto the platform?
What's that?
You drove it onto the platform?
It's on the platform.
It's standing right on the platform.
If I pushed it another three inches,
it would be on the tracks another three inches or so.
That's kind of frightening, actually.
Yeah.
I'm a real anarchist.
I'm about to cause all kinds of mayhem.
But you know what?
Over here, people are treated as adults.
People don't do things like that.
So yeah, you can drive your car onto a train platform
and the whole world doesn't fall apart.
Here's something else.
But the platform, eh?
It's built in America, possibly.
But I just went to an airport and rented a car
in another country.
And they gave me the paper.
They gave me the keys.
Have you ever rented a car?
Yeah, you did.
I actually have a follow-up story on that
from a couple of Letters people.
I'd like to hear that.
I want to know what happens to people
who wreck cars when they rent them.
Not that part.
But basically, I rented this car.
And they gave me the keys.
And I went and got the keys, got the car.
They don't have those...
You just drive away.
It's a perfectly trusting situation.
There's no possibility of severe tire damage?
No severe tire damage.
None of the things that we're used to
over there that are so imposing
and evil
seem to exist over here.
And I don't mean just in Norway.
In most countries in Europe that I've been in,
you just don't see that.
And it really puts things in perspective.
It makes you realize how we've been programmed
in a particular way
to expect people to act badly
and to have to have
law enforcement to deal with that constantly.
Or perhaps we should lengthen
our sentences for various
transgressions
here in the States.
Yeah, you know,
my voice might sound
a lot worse than yours.
I don't want people to get the impression
that that means that you're right.
Okay.
It's just another opinion.
I'm in hell, but I'm also the voice of reason.
So, um,
you know, no one's figured out how to call this phone yet.
Maybe there is something wrong. I called it.
I called it from my cell phone. I don't know why nobody else can.
Now, when you call it from your cell phone, would that be a local call?
I don't even know, to be honest.
I mean, we're talking on my cell phone now.
And God only knows how much it's going to cost me
because the BAI phone system doesn't know how to make a phone call.
Actually,
I wonder what long distance would cost in hell.
The real one.
I'm going to find out.
And I'll feel like I never left when I do.
You would like Norway, Isaac.
You would really like Norway.
Well, I like Alaska, so I imagine I'd like Norway.
Well, there is a law in this country
that you cannot hit your child
inside your home
or anywhere else.
Oh, I don't think I like Norway much.
You want to hit children?
Well, it's a disciplinary act.
You know, you give them a little swat
on the backside and say,
Hey, you're not supposed to put your hand in the cookie jar.
This goes back to...
They don't misbehave.
I've never seen so many happy kids.
Well, I guess because they're not getting hit all the time.
But responsible,
well-behaved kids.
That's what we seem to have a plethora here.
It's...
I mean, it's different.
You don't see people acting the same way.
They act so much more mature.
And I think it's because
people tend to watch out for each other
and not abuse each other.
Hmm.
How about this?
Here's something else that I think Americans need to hear
about the way things are in Norway.
You know how much vacation time you get
in this country?
Usually two weeks.
You're talking about your country,
the one you're in right now.
I'm talking about the country I'm in right now.
Oh, in your country.
It's not my country, but the country I'm in.
Oh, okay. I don't know, actually.
I know so many workaholics that can't even get two weeks.
In this country,
it's five weeks.
Okay.
Maybe this might have a thing to do
with them not being a superpower?
Well, you know, you'd think
being a superpower would have advantages.
You know, maybe we'd have some, like,
super things going with the superpower.
Well, I hear all the time that the United States is the richest
country in the world. I'd say that's an advantage.
We're 1% of the population
and we consume 20% of the resources.
When do the people start seeing that?
Well, that's what I'd like to know.
You know?
In this country, you don't see people starving.
You don't see people who don't have homes.
You don't see people who don't have health care.
You don't see people who don't have education.
Everybody is provided for.
Their tax rate is not that much higher than ours.
Sounds like a communist happy land.
Well, you can call it communism if you want,
but people here seem a whole lot freer than we are.
There's no censorship on TV or radio.
Yeah, but there's only one
government-owned channel.
No?
That's not true either.
There's something called TV3, I believe.
TV2 or TV3 is a commercial network.
Not only that,
they have networks
from all over the world
imported into here,
including various United States networks.
Do you know that CNN
has a totally different feed for Europe?
That is so much better than the CNN
that we get in the United States.
There are no commercials.
It's all about international news.
They speak intelligently,
like people understand what they're talking about.
There's no sports.
There's no fashion.
There's no show business.
There's no crap.
Our own networks treat people
with more intelligence outside our country
than inside our own country.
You really have to wonder what's going on.
Well, I've offered to help you move to Canada,
but if you really want to go to Norway,
I'd rather come back
and bring some of these radical ideas with me
and start spreading them around
like some kind of a virus
until one day
our country is as nice as this country.
That's what I'd like to do.
You know what you can do in this country?
You can camp out
anywhere you want
in the wilderness.
Someone might own a vast amount of land,
but you're allowed to camp out there
as long as you don't do anything bad to the land
because everyone has the right
to enjoy nature.
And you know what?
This place has no pollution
that I can see.
I haven't seen any trash on the ground.
I haven't seen any significant air pollution.
I haven't seen anything that indicates
that this place is in any way
at war with its own environment.
Okay.
I just think people here
take care of things so much better.
It's sad that
I'm not going to contest that.
I'm not over there.
I'm not doing samples
of the streams or anything.
Anyhow,
do you want to start opening this up to callers?
Yeah.
Vacation time got even better.
You get five weeks of vacation here,
but not only that.
You know what else you get?
You get vacation pay.
I don't mean you get paid for your time
you take vacation.
You get 10% of your income
to spend on your vacation.
I mean, is that amazing or what?
Where do these people go on their vacations?
Anywhere they want.
How about this?
If you go on a vacation someplace
and you get sick, it doesn't count.
You get to do it again.
What do you mean it doesn't count?
I mean, this is unbelievable, this place.
They treat people with respect.
They know how to enjoy themselves.
They don't pressure themselves.
They don't have the whole world hating them.
That's kind of cool.
It's worth a visit.
I'll put it on my itinerary.
What are you doing in Europe in the first place?
Basically, I wanted to see this part of Europe.
I haven't been here ever before.
It's very educational.
I've had a lot of fun visiting
the various small towns up in the north.
Each one of which is completely different.
You can just spend hours wandering around.
I found that it's really
kind of peaceful to just sort of
walk around and
explore the side streets
and maybe read a book for a few hours.
I just don't get the sense
that I have to be doing something else.
In the States, if I sit down and read a book,
I feel like I'm wasting time somehow
and I have to be doing something else.
Here, people aren't like that.
You can just kind of sit
by a stream for a few hours
and contemplate life.
That's perfectly okay.
That's kind of what humans should be doing.
It's a feeling that I get.
Maybe this is a weakness of mine.
I think you're on vacation
and you're enjoying yourself.
I'm sorry?
I think that you're on vacation
and you're enjoying yourself.
Well, no.
I'm also working while I'm here.
In fact, I was on a train.
I was on the phone because
GSM reception is unbelievable here.
Even in the mountains,
the most remote part of the country,
I was using a laptop to edit a magazine.
So I was pretty much working
like I would normally at home.
Without a desk.
I was seeing a lot nicer things going by.
Very nice.
The payphone is being surrounded by spiders now.
I can see they're crawling
up and down the windows.
Is this a remake of an Alfred Hitchcock movie?
You're being attacked by spiders in the payphone?
Nudity on TV.
I mean, nudity on TV.
That's something that they accept.
You know?
And language.
You know, words that we can't use.
They use without any problem.
Okay.
I just think it's something that
we kind of fall into complacency.
And we say that
this is something that is just the way it is
and we can't challenge it.
I mean, Pacifica Radio challenged
the Seven Dirty Words
back in the 70s.
Of course, we didn't win, but at least we challenged it.
Today, I hear people high up in Pacifica
saying that that wasn't a good idea
to engage in that fight.
Well, you know, if Pacifica doesn't do that kind of thing,
who is?
Who is going to challenge these ridiculous
restrictions and regulations
that really cripple our creativity?
I mean, here in this country,
I see all kinds of things being experimented with
and done on TV
and on radio.
People expressing themselves and not being penalized
for doing so.
That's not the kind of freedom in the United States.
Where is it not apparent in the United States?
Well, for instance,
we don't show movies
on television
unless we cut them to ribbons.
We take out anything that might offend
somebody in Iowa
and we basically change the entire meaning
of it from the artist's conception.
Are we talking about broadcast or cable?
In this country, you are allowed to
broadcast something the way it was
originally intended to air.
You can broadcast it out over the airwaves
and anybody can watch it.
If they don't want to watch it, they don't.
It's as simple as that.
Well, I'm not going to disagree with that.
I think that's kind of how things ought to work here
and that the FCC should back off.
Absolutely.
But how do we change it?
How do we change the system
so that there is actual freedom on the airwaves?
Someone has to take that first step.
Certainly.
You know, a network like Pacifica
has to be challenging the way things are.
Obviously, the commercial networks
aren't going to be doing this.
Obviously, PBS isn't going to be doing this
and NPR.
Somebody out there has to be challenging the system.
I'm going to disagree with you
in that I don't think it's Pacifica.
It's the responsibility of Pacifica to challenge us.
I think it's the listener's responsibility
to contact their legislators
and say,
listen, we don't like this.
It's time to back off
and evaluate just how these rules work.
Yeah, but you see,
who are the legislators going to listen to?
Individual people or entities like the NAB
that pocket them?
Well, last I checked,
the NAB doesn't keep them in office.
It's the voters that do.
Actually, the NAB gives them
all kinds of incentives
to run in the first place.
It's a corrupt system.
It really is.
Watch Mr. Smith goes to Washington.
It goes back a long, long way.
Individual people have always
been frustrated trying to get their legislators
to take them seriously.
Sometimes you have to go beyond
the electoral process.
Even if you contact your legislators,
what to say that
other people aren't going to contact them too
and convince them to go a different direction?
Can you honestly say
that if a thousand people
contacted Jesse Helms
and told him that
his film should be on network TV
that he's going to just change his mind
because that many people told him that?
Well, the next time he runs,
when he has that many less votes
because he's not supporting
his constituents,
I imagine that he might re-evaluate his position.
Well,
you can imagine that,
but I think it will stay imaginary
until people actually stand up
and challenge him.
That's the key.
That's what I'm doing right now.
I'm on the radio,
challenging this kind of thing,
making people aware
that there's a different world out here.
There are ways
of doing things
that are better
and we need to learn from that.
We can't always say that
we're on top, we're the best
and close our eyes to the things
that are around us.
There's good in our system,
and we need to learn that
and we need to import some of it back
and make things as good as they possibly can be
and not be afraid to do that.
I always sense that there's this fear
of changing the way we do things
because that's somehow an admission
of inferiority
and that's the last thing
that should be considered.
Interesting you say that,
but it is the bottom of the hour
and I suppose we should move along.
Yes.
The HAL conference is coming up.
That's Hackers at Large.
In fact, that's one of the reasons
I'm over here
because we're preparing for that.
It takes place in Holland
at the...
Get to know the university.
I keep forgetting the name of the university,
but it's in Holland.
You can go to www.hal2001.org
and all the information is there.
It takes place
the second weekend of August.
There's one week left
for pre-registration
on the 2600 site.
We've had a flurry
in the last week
of people registering.
It's going to be a ton of people
from all over the world at this thing.
It's really going to be
one of the best hacker conferences
I think that have ever taken place.
After one week,
you won't be able to register online,
but you will be able to register
if you want to pre-register
then go to our website
www.2600.com
I really, really, really
encourage people to come over
especially if you've never
been to Europe before
because it's a great way to get acquainted
with different cultures, different kinds of people,
different ways of doing things.
I hope that anybody that comes over
whether it's here or any other part of the world
just take something back with them
and try to build on that.
I think that's a very important thing to do.
A couple of things
that are very important if you do decide
to come over
one is
there's
a book
that is really useful
for people that
travel around like I do
and that's the Thomas Cook Train Guide.
The Thomas Cook Train Guide?
No, I'm not familiar with it.
It's a guide to every single train
in Europe. It's the most amazing book.
In fact, it even has buses.
I have to take buses up in Northern Norway
because they don't have trains up there.
But it has a schedule for every single train
and bus in existence
and all kinds of little notes that you need
to make your connections
and that kind of thing.
It's one of the seven wonders of the world
as far as I'm concerned.
So if you get this book, not only will you know
what you're doing but you'll be very popular
and people will gather around you and ask you questions
as you give them schedule information.
Exactly. You become the authority.
It's really kind of fun.
So I just want to give people an 800 number
if they're interested in that because
it really is very worthwhile.
It's 800-367-7984
or you can visit them at
www.forsythe.com
F-O-R-S-Y-T-H
dot com
and that's just something
that completely blew my mind
just realizing that it's possible
to get places so easily
and make connections so easily
and I just think
it really puts the whole thing in perspective.
Not bad.
It's University 20, by the way.
That's it. W-E-N-T-E.
Please forward my regards
and my respects as I can't be there.
I very much wanted to go but
Well, you know,
it's still very easy to
get over here.
It probably costs you a couple hundred bucks
and
accommodations are cheap if not free
because a lot of people are camping out.
They're setting up tents
on the grounds of the university.
That's pretty cool.
Are we going to do that for S2K too?
It's starting to feel like the last one
where there's nothing around.
At least this time there's a university around.
You have some refuge if it starts to rain.
We could set up tents
in Madison Square Garden
and basketball guys come in and kick us out.
Well, anyway,
you want to open up the phones, eh?
Yeah, I think we ought to.
It'll be somewhat amusing if I can get this thing working.
I'm kind of surprised my phone hasn't died
of battery loss.
Well, you're in such a strongly covered area
that you're probably running at the lowest power
possible.
I think it might make it for the whole show.
I still have two little things in my battery
that I was afraid I might lose them.
Well, this is working better than we thought it would.
It's costing me a small fortune.
That's the only problem.
Well, hey, that's unfortunately
part of the game.
I got a bunch of letters from people
who were concerned last week
that my entire trip to DEF CON
was this miserable sort of thing
that revolved around
a minor incident in my vehicle
and that I had no fun whatsoever.
That's absolutely untrue.
I had a grand old time.
I took Amtrak out.
I would encourage everyone
to hop on an Amtrak train and go somewhere.
Especially here during the summer.
They got a 30% off rate
for their 30th anniversary.
It's very nice.
I went out.
I think my favorite high point
of the entire trip was
I stopped at the base of a mountain.
I hiked up and I watched the sunrise
over the mountains in New Mexico,
which was absolutely beautiful.
Hacker Jeopardy was a good thing, too.
Supposedly it seemed that I claimed full responsibility
for winning.
That's not true.
I have my teammate here, Bobcat.
I helped a little bit.
It was a team effort.
Isaac got more stuff wrong than I did.
I did have the email question.
I thought I heard Wednesday 1992,
which is what threw me off.
The question was
this media file format
was previously thought
not to be able to carry viruses
and it has since been realized
that it can.
My answer was email.
It's really PDF, as everyone else knew.
I thought it was RTF.
It was PDF.
You still didn't learn.
That's besides the point.
It was an embarrassing moment.
I was forced to drink quite a bit
for that answer.
The number is 212-209-2900.
Did you press the button yet?
I haven't pressed the button yet.
I want to tell you about one story
that I read.
Maybe you can clarify this.
I don't get very much in the way it is here
because people speak whatever language
it is up here.
There aren't very many American newspapers.
It forces me to adapt.
It forces me to keep my eyes open
and my wits...
You look at pictures a lot.
I look at a lot of pictures.
I look at the sky.
The Herald Tribune.
The White House website
has dodged an internet bullet
using some technical sleight of hand
to sidestep a computer virus
dubbed Code Red,
according to security experts.
The virus, beginning last Thursday,
infected more than 225,000
computer systems around the world,
defacing many websites
with the message,
hacked by Chinese.
Despite the message,
the origin of the virus is unknown.
At least they realize
that doesn't necessarily mean it was Chinese.
The ultimate goal of the virus,
known as a worm,
is to gather strength
by infecting more computers
and then have them all attack
a numerical internet address
that represents the White House website.
The assault is a denial-of-service attack
designed to hamper or shut down
a computer system by flooding it
with huge amounts of data.
A different numerical address
to avoid the attack.
Pretty swift, eh?
They took another IP
and they repointed the DNS records to it.
They pointed it to a different IP
making the whole thing
an exercise in futility.
That was a really badly written worm.
Did you hear anything about this?
I've heard bits and pieces.
Honestly, it's not that interesting.
I just think it's kind of funny.
I find it amusing that people seem to think
that the White House website is this
massive national security bastion
on the internet.
I find it even more interesting
that whenever somebody manages
to go in and change a single word,
they're prosecuted as if it was
some kind of security system.
The White House Communications Agency
does not screw around.
It's definitely something
they take very seriously.
It's not as though the latest
B3 plans are sitting on the White House website
and you just can't get to them
and somebody manages to hack it out of there.
It's sort of ridiculous,
but that's besides the point.
What time is it over there?
2038.
Okay, so let's open up those phones.
Do some calls.
Hello, you're on the air.
Yes, you're not.
Press the right button.
I'll try another one here.
Try a different one.
Hello, you're on the air.
Hello, Emmanuel.
Are you okay?
I'm fine.
By the way, I tried the number you gave
and I couldn't break through.
I'm standing here in hell
and I'm hearing your voice
and it's just like, wow.
Here's a couple of questions.
Have you recorded every day
I heard somebody say
that you were recording
2600 was recording
every day of the crisis?
That's where we live
for a couple of weeks ago.
I was accused of having said something nasty
about Sally O'Brien
and I didn't make a call in.
Okay, well,
you can send us an email
and if we have that program
we'll try to get your company.
We have been archiving things.
Alright, here's the next question.
We also provide the web streaming.
I want to know
how much does it cost per day
to stream a station like WBAI?
It's ridiculously cheap.
It doesn't cost that much at all.
You just basically need
a nice provider like we have
in the form of NAC.net
and you need competent people
who run things
like the IndyMedia Center
which is where things are headquartered
and there are companies all around
and it's not a hard thing
to do at all.
I asked you a question.
I don't really know
because I haven't broken it down per day
but basically
we run a website,
this is something that we can put
on the side and it doesn't really
add anything to it.
And what was that .net
you said before IndyMedia Center?
NAC.net is our provider.
And how do you spell that?
N-A-C.net.
N-A-C.
When are you coming back?
Five weeks.
It's the first of five shows
where I'll be in different places.
Alright, here's the next one last thing.
Gary knows that he wouldn't do a program
about BAI for three weeks
and then just this Monday
which I guess is yesterday
he went on about WBAI
and had Juan Gonzalez on.
I don't know if you know that.
It's really above and beyond
what our program is.
It's a different program.
If you want to ask us any questions about our program
or about the station in general, that's fine.
But we can't address
issues of other programs.
Streaming by the way,
there's two parts to it.
You have an encoder
and you have the actual broadcast
section of it.
The encoding is fairly cheap.
You need a PC with a sound card
and the encoding software.
The actual broadcast,
you basically need a lot of bandwidth
because that's where it
actually gets done.
That's where all the bandwidth
is coming into play.
And speaking of competent people,
we don't thank Junits enough for doing our program here.
No, Junits has done an amazing job
with organizing
all the people that rebroadcast this show.
We should point out that
this particular program, Off the Hook,
gets done in a completely different way
than the normal streaming because
you have all these people gathering forces
and kind of linking arms
and just making a huge,
huge net cast that ordinarily
would not be possible. So we usually have
several hundred people who are able to listen
to this thing and then of course the show
gets put up on the net
on the website and a lot more people download it
and listen to it on delay.
So yeah, that's a whole different
area. The actual
broadcast, the BAI, where we just
look and just click and listen,
it's fairly straightforward, fairly simple
to generate all that much traffic.
A lot of people seem to think
that over-the-net broadcasts
are
really using lots and lots
and lots of different
users that are
tuning in. And even
commercial radio stations, they're just
getting a handful of people. That's something that really
needs to be known. Yeah, they only listen for
a few minutes and then they leave
and somebody else comes in and takes their slot.
Yeah, why would you want to listen to a radio station
in Sheboygan
or whatever that's playing the exact same kind of music
as one in Idaho?
There's no real reason to do that.
Well, talk radio, I mean, you can
listen to the Rush Limbaugh show for three
hours straight and people seem to like to do that.
They go through bandwidth like you wouldn't believe.
Yeah, you can do that on almost any
station on the AM band.
There's no reason to
tie up the net with that. That's true enough.
Number is 212-209-2900.
Hello, you're on the air.
Yeah, tomorrow night on the
Learning Channel at 10 o'clock
there's going to be, I believe,
something on hackers.
A good one?
Yeah, I think Kevin's
going to be on it. What's it called?
Hackers.
Simple, concise, to the point.
I like it.
How many things have been called hackers now?
You know?
There was a documentary years ago called
Hackers, Heroes of the American Revolution
or something like that, or Technological Revolution.
Then there was the film hackers, now there's this hackers.
You know?
We need better titles.
Maybe we can have our own serial.
We already do.
Hopefully people can watch that and let us know how it is.
Hello, you're on the air.
No, you're not. Ouch.
I've been bitten.
Hello, you're on the air.
Okay, hi.
Give that phone booth number in Norway
again, because I tried like six times
to get a recording.
What does the recording say?
The recording says,
we're sorry your call cannot be completed
as dialed. Please check the number
and area code and try again.
Okay, you have to dial 011,
then 47,
which is the country code for Norway,
then 82
00
0220.
Right, that's when the recording comes on.
Okay,
you should be getting a Norwegian recording
at that point, which is prompting you to
enter another phone number,
and then that number is 601226.
I can't try it from the States,
but I did try it from my cell phone and it worked.
Right, okay.
I just figured it would work for everybody, but I could be mistaken.
Okay, I'll try again.
Okay, good luck.
One cool point from Isaac, if you can
answer the line in Norwegian
and greet us in Norwegian.
Yeah, maybe that's the problem. Maybe they're not dialing
in Norwegian. Yeah.
Hello, you're on the air.
Isaac Emanuel, how's it going? It's Alex.
Hey, Alex, what's up? Why aren't you here?
I don't know.
I was in the city yesterday for the
Dmitri protest. Why aren't you over there?
Well, tell us about the Dmitri protest.
Well, it was good. It actually, I think
there was more than 30 people there. I think there were actually
around 50, but I think
there's probably 30 at any time because
a lot of people came and went.
And it lasted for quite a long time, too.
I think almost three hours.
You know, this is something that really, really
inspires me and makes me feel good about
the way things are back home, that there
are so many protests all throughout the
country yesterday about this issue.
And they drew a lot of people
and they were pretty vocal. I'm not sure if there
was any media coverage. I mean, you know, Isaac
doesn't know about it. He watches the mass
media all the time.
No, I'm in my cave on Mars.
That, too. But, you know, did anybody
cover it besides us? I believe that
the New York Times is...
Oh, someone's on a cell phone.
She's picking up.
Ten cents.
No, he's on a pay phone.
There's those infamous tones again.
Okay.
You must be the only person that still puts money
in pay phones.
Oh, let's not go there.
No, I mean people use cell phones. They don't use
Oh, okay. That's ridiculous.
You don't need them. It's more of a status symbol
to not have a cell phone now than it is to have one.
Well, here I am standing in a pay phone
using a cell phone.
But anyway, I believe the
New York Times was there. That's what I heard afterwards.
And there was another lady from
I think it was like the Freelance Writers Guild
who was interviewing people
and it
actually was a really good time.
I believe we handed out about
2,000 flyers.
And some people were actually really interested
and stopped and talked.
It was a really good showing.
It was pretty inspiring.
And despite the heat as well, it was incredibly
hot yesterday in Manhattan.
Emmanuel's in hell, so
you should know.
It's not very hot in hell. It's actually kind of nice.
It's a little windy.
It's a pleasant day in hell.
That's something I never thought I'd hear.
Adobe Now is saying that they
want Dimitri released as well. Is that correct, Alex?
Yeah, I believe so.
And there's a lot of discussion
on the Free Dimitri list about
whether they had a conference
with the EFF at the time
of the protest. I believe that the
negotiations with the EFF
actually, I don't know if it was negotiations, but it was
more of a conference, I think.
And after the conference,
they decided that, well,
maybe we did the wrong thing and now we're calling for
his release.
The Department of Justice is the one that really
has to make that decision now, right?
Oh, absolutely, yeah. But it was on
Adobe's complaint that
they arrested Dimitri.
If they decide they don't want to press charges.
Well, you need to complain in order to hold somebody in
prison or to actually have charges against somebody.
But the whole thing is just
absolutely ridiculous. And it really goes to show you
that the DMCA
is completely misguided.
It wouldn't be such
a bad thing if Dimitri's case
was used to strike this thing
I'm not a gag.
Time for another nickel.
There we go.
The search begins.
I'm standing in hell
and I don't have this kind of problem.
Thank you.
That was a nickel?
You back? Yeah, I'm back.
Okay. I'm back. Well, make it quick.
You only got a nickel in there. Yeah, that's true.
I hope nobody's recording those tones.
What was I?
I don't even remember what I was saying.
You see how they do it? They distract you
with all these stupid interruptions.
The DMCA would be okay.
Please deposit another nickel.
Because you were thinking too much.
Who was the representative
that actually said, you know, we have to take
intent into account with the DMCA
because that's really what
needs to be done here. Obviously, Dimitri's
intent was not to
facilitate pirating in any way.
Why should it be held in prison?
You need intent in order to hold somebody
liable for a criminal act.
Well, isn't that what the cryptographic
clause is for?
It says for pure cryptographic research.
It's not applicable?
It's being totally disregarded, though.
It seems to be very selective enforcement.
I mean, he's a foreign national
that, you know, is seen as some kind of
security threat because of that.
Because his name is Dimitri, apparently.
This is getting ridiculous.
Why don't you go away, Alex?
We're going to have to move on.
Nice, good talking to you.
Get a calling card.
Have a good time, Eric.
What time do we have?
We got 11 minutes
minus two, nine minutes.
Okay, because time doesn't work the same way in hell.
The program just goes on forever.
I'm sorry.
Hello, you're on the air.
Okay, you got to
listen to the phone.
You got to listen to
the phone and not the real audio stream
there, fella.
That was no good.
You know what, I'm going to stand outside. Why do I have to stay in a phone booth?
Exactly. Hello, you're on the air.
Hi, two things.
First, I hope you don't go bankrupt.
Why would we go bankrupt?
The EU started a
inquiry into
excessive roaming fees.
You might want to lower
your radio there. You're kind of echoing.
Yeah, well...
Alright, I didn't mean to make him go away, but...
You made him go away?
And secondly,
there were articles in the Times
both Monday and Tuesday on the
Dimitri case in the
business section. Oh, there is?
Okay. That's just about it.
Okay. Have a good time in hell.
Bye-bye. Thanks.
Oh, geez.
We're having...
I'm standing on the platform of the hell train station.
Needless to say, there are no trains going back and forth
this time of night. You're standing next to your car
on the platform? Well, no.
I'm walking way past it now. I'm walking down the platform.
You sound better now that you're not in the booth, by the way.
I should point out, there are people
camped out here, too. In this country,
people just camp out wherever they feel like camping out
and they seem to have a lot of fun doing it.
Yes, and here in this country, we call them hobos.
You can call them that,
I suppose, but they're families
and they're basically traveling across the country and doing
all kinds of things. I saw
a whole family before jumping up and down when a train
went by. They were really getting
into it. Were they trying to catch it?
Well, no. They seem to
really enjoy trains and I really enjoy trains,
too, so I can identify
with that. When you're in a train going by, people
wave at you. Yes, it's very cool.
It's very cool. All right. Let's
go for another call here. Five is a good number.
Hello, you're on the air. Hey, how are you doing?
All right. I just want to let you guys
know that on Silicon Spin right now,
on Tech TV, they're covering
the Dimitri case as we speak.
They've been covering it since
830. They showed some
footage from the protests
and stuff. Uh-oh.
I wasn't really paying attention to it.
I was just looking to you guys and
it sounds off. I don't know what they're talking about, but I know
they're covering it. Well, thank you. Too bad
more people can't get Tech TV, though. That's the problem.
No, but he was listening to us, which is
a vote of confidence for our competency. I like
that. Not bad. All right.
I just want to give you a heads up. All right. Thank you.
I'll have to try to
catch that in a rerun here.
All right. Number 10. Hello, you're on the air.
Hey, what's up? This is FK
and Mike. How are you doing?
Hey, we were wondering
when is Isaac going to get a show?
When is Isaac going to get a show?
Well, as soon as Emmanuel
reports that hell has frozen
over, I'm sure that WBAI
will gladly give me
a show here. Well, you know, this hell
does freeze over, and I think the hell in Michigan freezes
over, too, so I don't know what that statement means.
But that
would be the response that I would expect when hell
freezes over. I don't know.
Do you want to give me one?
Well, Emmanuel's all cool and all.
I love this show, and Emmanuel's the dude
on this show, but
I'd like to hear more of Isaac
kind of on his own, you know?
Okay. Isaac's also on the Expert Witness
show, so you can hear him there, as well.
Yeah, so I engineer over there, and I'm kind of silent, but
I'm only on one show.
My presence is on the Expert Witness.
There's more of Isaac than there is of me.
All right. Thanks a lot. Yep.
You have a good evening. All right. Let's go.
You see, that's a vote of confidence for me. I like it.
That's right. All right. Here we go.
Number two. Hello. You're on the air.
Hello. Hello.
Isaac? Yes. Hi.
How are you? I'd like to say
I'm glad that you're having a happy time in hell, Emmanuel.
Thank you.
Weekend in hell.
Hello? Yeah.
I thought I'd inform you on the
very important publication, the
Sunday edition of Drabble.
Yes, the main character walks around, and he's followed
by security cameras everywhere.
I don't know. I thought I would apply to you.
All right. You know, I should point out, okay,
as long as you bring that up, I'm in
a foreign country, and
not a single person has harassed me for looking
suspicious. I didn't even get into our own
building where I work at WBAI without being
labeled as a suspicious person.
But here in this country, nobody
looks twice. Nobody questions me.
I've seen one policeman the whole
time I've been here since last Thursday.
Well, if you skip across...
This is a healthy environment. What we have
in America is not healthy, and it
needs to be addressed. Well, if you skip across the channel,
your opinion may change as you walk around
London, one of the most surveilled
cities in the world.
Well, what's your point about
London? Well, my point is that not all
Europe is in agreement
with that non-surveillance policy.
Oh, well, no. I mean, as far as the surveillance...
The English have certainly
made some strides there. They've outdone us.
Yeah.
Surveillance has to be
something that is kept
in check. I think we can take one more.
Hello, you're
on the air.
Ooh, we're running out of time.
Oh, too late.
Okay. Number nine.
Hello, you're on the air.
Yes, you're not.
People are dropping
off. Let's try another one.
Hello, you're on the air.
Hey, whatever happened to the
Ken Leo Rosa show?
Huh? Excuse me?
Whatever happened to the Ken Leo
Rosa show? How are we supposed to know
the answer to that? Beats me. This isn't the programming
hour here.
I didn't think that was on our radio station. I guess.
All right, let's move on to number six.
Hello, you're on the air. Hi, I think
it's Bobcat. I'm sitting in the studio and I just wanted
everybody to know that I figured out how to dial directly
into... Okay, he
just went away.
Ah, geez. That's
very strange. Hello, you're on the air.
No, you're not. You're a dial tone.
Number seven. Hello,
you're on the air. Hi, how are you doing?
Are you trying to steal a CD?
Hey, listen, guys.
You ought to know about a phone in Jamaica
train station. The Jamaica train
station. Okay, tell us.
If you go there and you call information, any
information number you ask for, it'll
connect you to without asking for
any money. So that
will be disconnected later tonight.
Well, it probably will, but all the frauds
do that. Not bad.
All right, we'll try another one here.
Number five. Hello, you're on
the air.
Hello?
That's not good.
Okay, feedback across the ocean.
Hello, you're on the air.
Speak up.
Hey, how are you doing? Great show, guys.
Thank you.
Actually, the story about the Russian national
was one of the top
stories tonight on WBAI
news.
I'm very glad that WBAI is covering
it, and it upsets me when
we miss stories, so I'm glad that we're getting this one.
It's very important.
Actually, according to
that report,
is it Adobe?
They don't want to press charges.
Right.
Okay, so you guys are ahead of me.
If people want to hear that, they can tune in again
at 11 o'clock.
Apparently, his
fate...
I apologize for not
taking notes and knowing everybody's
name involved, but his fate
lies in the hands of the
now apparently going to be our
next FBI...
That's right. I heard the
same thing, that the guy that Bush
nominated to be the next FBI head
is the person in charge of this
case, so yeah, that's a very interesting point.
And the reporter who did the
story, who's also named
at this moment, she
mentioned that because of his
pending nomination,
if
trying to prosecute a
Russian national
seems to be...
Non-kosher? Well, for lack of a better
term, that
it may bode well
for him. Well, we're running out of time.
Okay. Have a great trip.
Thanks. Alright, last words from Hell?
God damn it.
I'm sorry. I just
turned around and the sun's out again.
The sun came out during my shot.
It never went down.
It never left. It stood up the whole time.
Nighttime has eluded me yet again.
And it's 3 in the morning
now, so this is sunrise.
Alright. Well, enjoy your...
We'll call you back next week.
Hopefully we'll have a little more success.
And you won't have to be on your
cell phone again, alright? Yes.
Well, take care, sir.
I'll see you later.
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