Off The Hook - 2001-09-04

[00:00.000 --> 00:17.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a private investigative company right here in New York, and he's going to be, we're working on an association between our company, Centac and Equalizer, and Christina Borgeson, 150 years, no, Christina, Christina Emmy Award winner, I am sorry, Christina,
[00:17.780 --> 00:31.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm just thankful you're here, because you're real, you're real, you're not a Larry King life, thank you, thank you for being here, and I want to urge you guys again, don't even buy Deep Cover, it's available, but go, it's in libraries, just take it out,
[00:31.400 --> 00:48.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Xerox, read for yourself, just read the chapter, Palace of Suits, and then look at the headlines about Colombia now, and you will understand what a three-card Monty game, this whole thing is, a trillion-dollar drug war, and we've got half this country that can't even get health insurance,
[00:49.400 --> 00:55.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: guys, I don't know, you've got to make your politicians know that you're out there, okay, my friends?
[00:55.620 --> 00:56.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wake up, please.
[00:57.340 --> 01:06.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hasta la semana que viene, you don't want to miss, you just don't want to miss, I'm not sure which show is going to be on next, but I'll tell you what, every one that we're putting together is just really outstanding and important.
[01:07.020 --> 01:07.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks, guys.
[01:09.160 --> 01:36.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now you're almost out of batteries, you've got to sweat much too small, poking at your navel, point your finger too, feel to say your lips don't even stick together when the dust comes up, blow across the plains.
[02:00.200 --> 02:04.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's just about 8 o'clock in the evening on a Tuesday night.
[02:05.420 --> 02:06.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Isaac, do you remember the theme this week?
[02:07.280 --> 02:08.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I brought it.
[02:09.280 --> 02:10.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ah, here it is.
[02:11.500 --> 02:12.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's right there.
[02:13.960 --> 02:15.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's time for Off the Hook.
[02:18.960 --> 02:20.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Isaac, did you cue up the theme last week?
[02:21.440 --> 02:22.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, yes I did.
[02:22.700 --> 02:23.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, well, it's just finished.
[02:24.360 --> 02:26.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Once again, time for Off the Hook.
[02:33.140 --> 02:55.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a cough It couldn't get much worse But if they could, they would Fundedly Bump But the best, expect the worst I hope that's understood Fundedly Bump
[03:49.240 --> 03:57.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ah yes, the good old Off the Hook theme I don't think it's long for this world, actually It's getting all worn out Oh, it needs a new cart, yeah Time for something new
[05:39.170 --> 05:43.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the program is Off the Hook I'm Emmanuel Goldstein here with Isaac How you doing, sir?
[05:44.190 --> 05:59.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm doing okay I'm still getting used to being back, you know Because being away for so long Five and a half Actually, five and a half weeks isn't that long But it sure feels it when you're traveling around a lot I'm just sort of still getting used to it Last week I was completely jet-lagged out This week I'm back to things You're coming back into...
[05:59.930 --> 06:09.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: I feel like I am, yeah I feel like I'm finally, you know Getting back in touch with All the things that have changed since I got here The W train Have you ridden the W train yet?
[06:09.830 --> 06:22.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I'm more interested in the Q train Well, the Q train has already existed It just changed color Yeah, but for some reason There's now two of them I think it's the only train in the system That has both a circle and a diamond On all the signs Well,
[06:23.170 --> 06:36.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: the difference is it has them on the signs Yeah, because it's a six It's a diamond six And a round six as well But, yeah, yeah It's kind of strange how they did that But the W train is what I'm really interested in Using the express tracks on Broadway I think that's really kind of cool as well Well,
[06:36.970 --> 06:46.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: they're shuffling the F over to Roosevelt Island now So I hear So I hear There's all kinds of consternation about that There are people always jumping up and down in some car Saying, where's Queens Plaza?
[06:46.890 --> 06:47.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where's Queens Plaza?
[06:47.730 --> 07:03.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah And Nassau Street here on Wall Street It's going south down now Yep They changed the direction of the street Boy, talk about confused stockbrokers walking around, you know And driving the wrong way They look one direction They get mulled over by a truck or something I gotta tell you,
[07:03.390 --> 07:23.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: I miss Europe I miss just the overall feeling of it I brought back, I forgot to give this to you last week In fact, as per the new memo, I can't throw things at you anymore That's directed to the whole staff No more throwing objects at Isaac But I figure I can get around it Because this is the subject of what I'm talking about So I can throw it to you Look at that Isn't that amazing?
[07:23.530 --> 07:26.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Look at the size of that Kit Kat bar This is an enormous Kit Kat bar Isn't that amazing?
[07:26.450 --> 07:39.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what they have That's what Europe is like It's big Kit Kat bars, you know They don't mess around over there Yeah, it's a little smash It's in my bag for about four weeks Oh yeah, it's also a little melted But that's okay Yeah, I left it out in the sun one day It's a Kit Kat chunky Uh-huh,
[07:39.490 --> 07:57.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: that's Paris sun that melted that, you know Ooh Yeah French sun Have you heard the latest nonsense I'm already feeling salty The latest nonsense going on In the world of technology and radio Has to do with a new band Yeah, a new band Not, you know, like the Rolling Stones Oh,
[07:57.170 --> 08:00.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: okay A new radio band I was wondering there Have you heard anything about this?
[08:01.730 --> 08:04.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: The, this is the new commercial thing You're talking about, the FCC?
[08:04.330 --> 08:21.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, no, no I don't think I am Okay What I'm talking about is Well first, okay This is how they say it First, there is AM Yes Then, there is FM Okay And now, there's XM XM?
[08:21.650 --> 08:22.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have you heard of XM?
[08:22.890 --> 08:34.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, I'm wondering what XM is Because AM is amplitude modulation It's basically satellite radio Satellite radio is finally here And there's two companies XM and Sirius Sirius like the star Sirius Not Sirius as in Are you serious?
[08:34.690 --> 08:56.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're talking about X-bands You have to ask But the thing is And this is what the whole industry Is going nuts over They're all talking about Yeah, this is the new step in radio This is like, you know This is what FM was to AM XM is going to be to FM You know But the difference is The big major difference You big fat dummies Is that XM is a company It's a company It's not a technology How do you
[08:56.490 --> 09:16.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: get onto the XM airwaves Well, you have to be part of their company Which I believe is owned by Clear Channel as well So, I mean, it's just You know, here we go all over again With supposed freedom of speech Being taken over in a different way You know All these people are going to be Driving around in their cars Listening to satellite radio Commercial free on some channels And of course you'll
[09:16.150 --> 09:23.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: have Two NPR channels And, you know A bunch of commercial things But what do you think The odds of someone like us Getting on the air?
[09:24.010 --> 09:27.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you think The odds of anybody That's on WBAI Getting on the airwaves?
[09:27.190 --> 09:37.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, we're in a building So I don't think We're going to be able to hear it Even if it were on the air I'm not sure how that works To be honest I'm not sure how your car Gets a satellite signal As you're driving around It should be kind of interesting I'm interested in the technology But,
[09:37.790 --> 09:40.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: okay You know How did it wind up Being in the hands Of just a company?
[09:41.370 --> 09:59.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know Why not license this out To all different You know Organizations So that Yeah, we can have A nationwide audience Driving around in cars Maybe a worldwide audience Well, that's the nature Of satellite technology I mean, they're very expensive To put up there Someone is going to Have to front the dollars And they're going to Look for a return on that Well,
[09:59.610 --> 10:04.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: we can have a fundraiser We're good at that here A little football kind of thing You know, up here?
[10:04.290 --> 10:04.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: The WBA?
[10:04.870 --> 10:17.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know But the point is I think it's an interesting technology But I think it's really Kind of missing the boat As far as providing an alternative The thing that worries me, though I don't know If very many people Are going to care I don't know If they're going to realize That hey,
[10:17.470 --> 10:23.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: you know You're missing out on something You're missing out on The potential It's crucial to hear a lot of interesting voices, to hear a lot of diversity.
[10:24.230 --> 10:25.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: But honestly, I wouldn't be too nervous.
[10:26.110 --> 10:30.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: I doubt any major auto manufacturer is going to change over too quick, unless you're a trucker.
[10:31.070 --> 10:38.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, I think both Ford and General Motors, not exactly my favorite people, I think they are both equipping all their new cars with XM or Sirius.
[10:38.770 --> 10:41.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: And of course, in the true American spirit, the two systems are incompatible.
[10:41.730 --> 10:42.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
[10:42.530 --> 10:45.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you have to choose one or the other and not get...
[10:45.510 --> 10:47.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course, I don't think they're very different from each other either.
[10:48.570 --> 10:49.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it just annoys me.
[10:49.770 --> 10:53.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: It annoys me to see that touted as, you know, a new choice.
[10:54.010 --> 10:55.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not a choice at all.
[10:55.130 --> 10:57.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're picking what it is you can listen to.
[10:58.650 --> 11:00.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's all there is to it.
[11:00.470 --> 11:02.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, you can choose to subject yourself to their will.
[11:03.010 --> 11:03.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's a choice.
[11:03.990 --> 11:05.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's pretty much the choice you have.
[11:06.350 --> 11:13.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, speaking of radio, I just want to say, right here, right now, that I heard probably the best radio I've ever heard on this station.
[11:13.690 --> 11:16.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm happy to say it was on this station over the last week.
[11:16.470 --> 11:17.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: In fact...
[11:17.030 --> 11:18.990]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, I was on engineering the other two weeks.
[11:19.170 --> 11:19.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: That wasn't it.
[11:20.050 --> 11:20.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh.
[11:20.710 --> 11:21.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, the engineering was good.
[11:21.890 --> 11:22.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was high-quality engineering.
[11:22.810 --> 11:23.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, thank you.
[11:23.090 --> 11:24.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, I don't listen to a show for the engineering.
[11:25.270 --> 11:28.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like, there's engineering going on right now, which you don't even know is happening.
[11:28.890 --> 11:29.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't know all the...
[11:29.650 --> 11:30.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's the magic of engineering.
[11:30.950 --> 11:35.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: ...optopus things I'm doing right now with the control board to make the smooth sound that we have right now.
[11:36.050 --> 11:36.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: People don't care about that.
[11:36.990 --> 11:39.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: What people care about is the personal touch.
[11:39.530 --> 11:41.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's always about the talent on the air.
[11:41.190 --> 11:46.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: The talent on the air, but basically, it's the enveloping feeling that you're a part of something.
[11:46.890 --> 11:51.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was listening to Bob Fassi the other night on his Thursday night program.
[11:51.170 --> 11:52.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: It goes from 12 to, I think, 3.30.
[11:53.250 --> 11:55.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Funny thing is, Bob wasn't on.
[11:55.730 --> 11:56.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bob was stuck.
[11:56.690 --> 11:57.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: He was...
[11:57.310 --> 11:59.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: The whole show, basically, was, where's Bob?
[11:59.930 --> 12:00.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was great.
[12:01.650 --> 12:03.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because, you know, he's there every week.
[12:03.130 --> 12:05.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's been on the radio here at WBAI since the 60s.
[12:06.230 --> 12:08.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he hasn't lost an ounce of his talent.
[12:09.390 --> 12:12.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's still the same magical personality, as are many of the people who are on the air.
[12:13.290 --> 12:19.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: But as the whole mystery was unfolding as to where he was, it turned out his Cadillac had broken down somewhere.
[12:20.110 --> 12:24.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And he had to basically walk to the station from, I think, New Jersey or something.
[12:26.450 --> 12:30.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: But as the mystery went on, more and more people just were calling in.
[12:31.210 --> 12:39.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: And as everyone called in, among them, a lot of the, quote-unquote, banned people, you know, the people who aren't allowed to be here, well, they are allowed to call in on the phone.
[12:39.510 --> 12:40.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you can't really stop that.
[12:40.790 --> 12:54.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: But hearing the voices, hearing Grandpa Al Lewis, hearing Bernard White, hearing Robert Knight, you know, hearing these people, and plus all the other people who called in, not all of whom agreed with one particular, you know, form of what's going on around here,
[12:54.790 --> 13:06.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: hearing it all, it made you feel like you were part of some kind of family, which I think that's what I was trying to say last week when I was emphasizing the human aspect, all the crises that are going on around here.
[13:07.030 --> 13:08.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Basically, we're human beings.
[13:08.630 --> 13:11.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's what it boils down to.
[13:12.590 --> 13:20.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: And hearing these people call in, I don't know, it just made me feel like I was part of something more than just, you know, doing a show once a week.
[13:20.490 --> 13:27.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: As an audience member, you know, these are people that we all recognize, that we can talk to, that we can talk back and forth to.
[13:27.390 --> 13:29.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the good thing about it was it was an open dialogue.
[13:30.050 --> 13:31.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: An open dialogue.
[13:31.390 --> 13:38.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it wasn't this stilted kind of thing where, you know, you have to be careful, we can't talk about this subject, even though it's a subject in everybody's mind.
[13:38.830 --> 13:39.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: People were talking openly.
[13:39.970 --> 13:41.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was like the old WBAI.
[13:41.710 --> 13:44.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: And in many cases, the old WBAI has not gone away.
[13:44.230 --> 13:48.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are places you can still hear, you know, the station the way the station has always been.
[13:49.030 --> 13:52.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think that's what people need to remember, that that hasn't gone away.
[13:52.950 --> 14:05.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's not going to go away unless the whole station goes away and turns into, you know, some segment of clear channel, which is quite a possibility, I suppose, because, you know, they seem to be buying up everything, everything.
[14:08.570 --> 14:17.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, I don't know, I just think that's the kind of radio that we have to strive to create here at this station, because obviously we're the only station in town that's going to even try to do it.
[14:18.090 --> 14:19.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: We lost WEVD last week.
[14:19.770 --> 14:22.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll get into that, you know, a couple more details in a minute.
[14:25.470 --> 14:29.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, I don't know, I just think that that's what it's all about.
[14:30.170 --> 14:30.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what it's all about.
[14:30.970 --> 14:45.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: When you can actually turn on the radio and feel like you're a part of something bigger, not just listening to music, not just listening to somebody lecture you, or read the news, or, you know, talk about one particular subject, but being part of the interactiveness.
[14:46.390 --> 14:48.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was on a train in Belgium.
[14:49.130 --> 14:50.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: In Belgium.
[14:50.690 --> 14:53.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it was getting kind of crowded, and some guy sat across from me.
[14:54.790 --> 14:57.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the subject turned into, where are you from?
[14:57.690 --> 15:00.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I said I was from New York.
[15:00.090 --> 15:01.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: It turned out he was from Long Island.
[15:02.270 --> 15:06.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, yeah, and I happened to, he asked what kinds of things I did.
[15:06.990 --> 15:07.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: I told him about the magazine.
[15:07.910 --> 15:08.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: I told him about the radio station.
[15:08.770 --> 15:11.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: When he heard WPAI, he said, oh, I'm a big fan of WPAI.
[15:11.650 --> 15:14.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I, I'm a big fan of Amy Goodman.
[15:14.910 --> 15:17.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I really hope that you guys win the fight.
[15:17.650 --> 15:20.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's like, wow, you know, I wasn't even wearing a shirt or a banner or anything.
[15:20.830 --> 15:23.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: This guy was just like bringing it up on a train in Belgium.
[15:23.410 --> 15:27.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, I hope you guys really, you know, win the fight and get your station back on track.
[15:27.630 --> 15:29.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's like, wow, Belgium.
[15:29.210 --> 15:32.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, people are talking about this all over the world.
[15:32.850 --> 15:33.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a small world.
[15:33.730 --> 15:34.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the thing.
[15:34.770 --> 15:38.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: People think that, you know, this only affects a couple of people, a handful of people.
[15:38.970 --> 15:39.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: It affects so many more.
[15:40.310 --> 15:42.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's, there's a guy downstairs at the vigil.
[15:42.330 --> 15:42.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, one guy.
[15:42.950 --> 15:43.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can laugh at that.
[15:43.750 --> 15:47.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can say, hey, you know, there's only one person standing outside in the vigil holding signs.
[15:47.330 --> 15:55.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, you know, I saw one guy in London in a vigil standing outside with a bunch of signs saying, stop bombing Iraq, you know?
[15:56.150 --> 16:01.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does that mean the whole movement to not bomb Iraq after however many years we've been doing it?
[16:01.330 --> 16:05.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does that mean the whole movement is just ridiculous because only one guy has the fortitude to stand out there?
[16:06.110 --> 16:12.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I think it's a blemish on the rest of us for not standing out there and not, you know, waking people up and spreading things around.
[16:13.770 --> 16:14.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: I want to play something.
[16:15.030 --> 16:19.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: I want to play something from a show a couple of years ago, from one of our shows a couple of years ago.
[16:21.350 --> 16:24.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this has particular relevance for a couple of reasons.
[16:26.470 --> 16:27.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, let's just go into it.
[16:27.670 --> 16:35.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's basically a call that we took back in June of 1999 and you'll probably recognize the voice.
[16:36.390 --> 16:37.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what happened over in Maine.
[16:37.810 --> 16:39.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pretty good, pretty good showing there.
[16:40.230 --> 16:41.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's take another call.
[16:41.650 --> 16:42.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[16:43.830 --> 16:44.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: Emmanuel Goldstein.
[16:44.690 --> 16:45.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, how are you doing?
[16:45.590 --> 16:46.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been a long time.
[16:46.570 --> 16:47.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: How are you doing?
[16:47.210 --> 16:47.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pretty good.
[16:47.610 --> 16:47.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: How have you been?
[16:49.130 --> 16:52.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: For the last three weeks, I've been home with a nervous breakdown.
[16:52.810 --> 16:54.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it keeps repeating.
[16:54.810 --> 16:56.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: Insomnia, loss of appetite.
[16:56.910 --> 16:59.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: I go through the first stage with the Tibetan Book of the Dead.
[17:00.150 --> 17:00.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[17:00.690 --> 17:01.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that would do it.
[17:01.930 --> 17:02.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm getting better.
[17:02.670 --> 17:04.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, I'm resilient.
[17:04.190 --> 17:07.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: I keep bouncing back for some karmic reason.
[17:07.570 --> 17:10.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Just two brief things I know you're getting close to going off.
[17:10.410 --> 17:10.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[17:10.650 --> 17:14.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I obviously wasn't at a demonstration because I'm not in the crowds.
[17:15.130 --> 17:17.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I can't even make eye contact with people on the street.
[17:17.750 --> 17:19.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so, like, weird and paranoid.
[17:20.170 --> 17:31.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I must congratulate you for having the courage and balls to, you know, stand up for your convictions and to go in the face of, you know, the fascist tide.
[17:32.250 --> 17:35.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I wanted to give you a big kudos from the Bronx.
[17:35.750 --> 17:39.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the second thing is, I know you're making the documentary.
[17:40.070 --> 17:45.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Believe it or not, I'm also going to be featured in a movie along with Monroe about WBAI.
[17:45.830 --> 17:47.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: And can I just announce its world premiere?
[17:48.110 --> 17:48.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go right ahead.
[17:48.970 --> 17:49.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Monroe is in a film?
[17:50.030 --> 17:50.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[17:50.250 --> 17:51.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's called Airtime Rights.
[17:51.790 --> 17:55.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's done by a British NYU film student called Stephen Hutchinson.
[17:56.070 --> 18:02.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's going to air next Friday night, June 18th at 7 p.m.
[18:03.290 --> 18:10.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: at the Tishman Auditorium of the New School, which for people who don't know is on 12th Street between 5th and 6th Avenue.
[18:10.830 --> 18:17.770]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're going to show that film again called Airtime Rights along with other NYU student films.
[18:18.030 --> 18:19.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: And Monroe will be there.
[18:19.730 --> 18:22.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bar Fast from WBAI will be there.
[18:22.130 --> 18:29.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: And if I'm not too crazy and hopefully with the right pharmaceutical help, I'll be there.
[18:29.410 --> 18:33.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: But you can at least stand outside and greet people as they walk by.
[18:33.390 --> 18:34.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's like it's a 20-minute film.
[18:35.030 --> 18:37.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: And my name, for people who don't know, my first name is Mark.
[18:38.150 --> 18:39.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm featured for five minutes.
[18:39.850 --> 18:48.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the rest of the 20 minutes is about Monroe and people's reaction to him and his mishugas and that kind of stuff.
[18:48.850 --> 18:53.710]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm thinking it might be a good double feature along with your documentary on Kevin Sunday, but who knows?
[18:53.790 --> 18:56.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Except ours won't be done anywhere near Sunday, but...
[18:56.050 --> 18:57.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, this is a week from Friday.
[18:57.670 --> 18:58.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, even then.
[18:58.450 --> 18:58.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, good.
[18:59.110 --> 19:00.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever happens...
[19:00.030 --> 19:01.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: A ways longer.
[19:01.130 --> 19:01.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: He has fiber optic.
[19:02.130 --> 19:02.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: I really miss him.
[19:02.990 --> 19:04.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Last I heard, he's doing pretty good.
[19:04.430 --> 19:06.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: He still has that goatee and that slick hair.
[19:07.250 --> 19:08.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: That I'm not sure.
[19:08.150 --> 19:09.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: You probably have to ask the feds about that.
[19:09.130 --> 19:16.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, but again, I mean, I was there with you in spirit and you guys keep making trouble, but keep it safe, okay?
[19:16.350 --> 19:16.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[19:16.850 --> 19:19.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, thanks for the good thoughts.
[19:19.610 --> 19:20.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: You got it, bye-bye.
[19:20.430 --> 19:20.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[19:22.110 --> 19:24.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that was from a show a couple of years ago.
[19:25.590 --> 19:44.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the reason I played that, obviously it's of interest because of the film mention, but I found out by listening to the show that I was talking about on Thursday night, Bob Fass's show, that unfortunately that particular caller who was a well-known voice to us had taken his life.
[19:45.510 --> 19:48.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know when this happened, but I just found out about it last Thursday.
[19:49.610 --> 19:54.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I got to tell you, I got to tell you, something like that, hearing that, it really floored me.
[19:54.950 --> 19:57.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, this is somebody that I never met.
[19:57.770 --> 20:03.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is somebody that was a familiar voice to all of us at Off the Hook and indeed all of us at WBAI.
[20:06.070 --> 20:13.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: And even though, even though we had never actually met face-to-face or done anything other than talk on the radio, there was a connection there.
[20:13.490 --> 20:20.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was this kind of family connection that you can only get in a place like this.
[20:22.190 --> 20:31.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I got to tell you, you know, knowing that this person was in so much pain, he talked about it openly on the air, obviously, as you just heard, and on many other shows and on many other occasions.
[20:32.130 --> 20:34.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to wonder, you know, was there more you could have done?
[20:35.110 --> 20:38.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Was there something you could have said, some magical phrase that would have prevented things?
[20:38.790 --> 20:40.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the fact is, you'll never know.
[20:41.270 --> 20:51.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the fact also is that what we're dealing with here in Radioland is a bunch of insecure people, none of whom have the answers.
[20:51.870 --> 20:54.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we all have to take care of each other one way or another.
[20:54.690 --> 21:05.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that goes for, no matter what factions open up, no matter what sides they are taking, I've heard a lot of pain over these airwaves in the past, well, many months, I guess, but particularly in the last week or so.
[21:06.190 --> 21:12.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've heard people talking about the hatred which has started between the many sides.
[21:12.210 --> 21:13.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, there's more than two sides.
[21:13.590 --> 21:15.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's about seven or eight different sides here.
[21:16.470 --> 21:18.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they're all just basically feeding on each other.
[21:18.930 --> 21:19.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: This has to stop.
[21:19.910 --> 21:21.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: This really has to stop.
[21:21.170 --> 21:25.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I was listening to Sidney Smith the other night on his program.
[21:25.170 --> 21:28.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: I disagree with just about everything he had to say, but it was an open dialogue.
[21:28.570 --> 21:29.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's great.
[21:29.890 --> 21:30.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know?
[21:30.730 --> 21:35.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's great to be able to talk about these things and to be able to open up and express yourself.
[21:35.150 --> 21:37.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because if you don't do that, yeah, the hate does fester.
[21:37.710 --> 21:40.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then before you know it, you're not able to talk to anybody.
[21:40.530 --> 21:42.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're not able to talk to the other side at all.
[21:42.490 --> 21:44.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think it's like maybe an American thing.
[21:44.950 --> 21:47.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because when I was in Europe, there was all kinds of debating going on all the time.
[21:47.910 --> 21:53.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the government, among the people I was with, basically people talk to each other.
[21:53.230 --> 21:55.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: When I get back here, though, it's, well, I don't talk to that person.
[21:55.690 --> 21:57.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't, you know, we don't talk to them.
[21:57.890 --> 21:58.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're evil.
[21:59.510 --> 22:01.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: The communication basically breaks down.
[22:01.870 --> 22:05.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: And when you have a breakdown in communication, you don't get anywhere.
[22:06.050 --> 22:10.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: So that's why I applaud anyone who actually talks.
[22:10.670 --> 22:12.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, not just about their own agenda.
[22:12.870 --> 22:14.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: We all have our own agendas.
[22:14.310 --> 22:15.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: I do too.
[22:15.670 --> 22:20.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, some are important, some are funny, some are whatever.
[22:21.650 --> 22:25.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, it's just important to keep the dialogue open.
[22:27.070 --> 22:30.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I know people are going to say, what about the gag rule?
[22:30.670 --> 22:31.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: What about the Pacifica gag rule?
[22:31.810 --> 22:37.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, fortunately, somebody else pointed me to the Pacifica website where they updated something while I was away.
[22:38.030 --> 22:39.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: I want to read this.
[22:39.770 --> 22:41.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then we'll get on to some other things as well.
[22:43.370 --> 22:44.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pacifica has no gag rule.
[22:45.110 --> 22:46.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is from Pacifica.
[22:46.190 --> 22:53.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: This charge is particularly ironic considering Pacifica's long tradition of free speech and its tireless promotion of open and independent dialogue.
[22:53.670 --> 23:03.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pacifica merely enforces universal journalistic and organizational standards because radio is a unilateral medium with a programmer speaking at the listeners with no rebuttal.
[23:03.870 --> 23:11.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Pacifica does not permit individual programmers to divert airtime to agitate about their personal positions on internal management and personnel matters.
[23:11.590 --> 23:15.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is standard practice in virtually all journalistic organizations.
[23:16.910 --> 23:18.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's nothing there I don't agree with.
[23:18.810 --> 23:20.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, that makes perfect sense.
[23:21.190 --> 23:22.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Open the phone lines up.
[23:23.070 --> 23:24.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have a dialogue back and forth.
[23:24.610 --> 23:29.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't speak at the listeners about your own particular complaints or whatever.
[23:30.150 --> 23:33.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Radio station is here to talk back and forth.
[23:34.610 --> 23:43.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think there are shining examples of that and I think that's something that people really need especially in this day and age when radio is endangered.
[23:43.650 --> 23:51.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Whether it's by satellite companies taking over making new bands quote unquote bands or stations being sold.
[23:52.830 --> 23:57.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that brings us to WEBD which is no longer with us.
[23:57.350 --> 24:00.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well actually it is with us but now it's all sports all the time.
[24:01.570 --> 24:05.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, we needed a third sports station in the city and now we have one.
[24:06.110 --> 24:11.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: But here are a couple of clarifications and I'm going to take this from a posting which is circulating.
[24:12.090 --> 24:17.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I have to take away the personal attacks because it's laced with some personal attacks which I'm not saying I disagree with.
[24:17.690 --> 24:20.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just saying they're not relevant to what we're talking about here.
[24:21.110 --> 24:22.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: WEBD has not been sold.
[24:23.070 --> 24:38.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Forward Association, owners of WEBD have entered it into a lease management arrangement with Disney ABC for a two-year period with an option to buy within that period with an option for Disney to buy within that period for an agreed-upon price of $78 million.
[24:40.290 --> 24:46.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Forward Association is still the license holder regardless of the fact that Disney is calling the station 1050 ESPN.
[24:46.630 --> 24:49.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Once an hour you will hear them rush through the WEBD call letters.
[24:50.550 --> 24:53.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: The members of Save WEBD have not gone away.
[24:53.410 --> 25:01.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're still operating the website www.savewebd.com and are planning to take legal action against the LMA in the near future.
[25:02.790 --> 25:06.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, here's the interesting thing and this is what people have to be careful of.
[25:06.550 --> 25:08.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Forward Association was once a non-profit.
[25:09.150 --> 25:15.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was forced to become a for-profit licensed business in New York State because of the income it was receiving from operating a commercial radio station.
[25:16.690 --> 25:24.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, the Forward organization is trying to regain its non-profit status to avoid the massive tax liability it would have when and if the sale goes through.
[25:24.970 --> 25:30.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Forward's claim is that since it no longer is operating a commercial radio station it should be able to become a non-profit again.
[25:30.830 --> 25:32.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: This, of course, is a scam.
[25:32.230 --> 25:33.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: They still hold the license.
[25:33.350 --> 25:36.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: They are still operating a commercial radio station from which they are deriving income.
[25:36.690 --> 25:40.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: The fact that they are leasing all the time to ESPN doesn't change the facts.
[25:40.990 --> 25:44.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: The concentration of the media in fewer and fewer hands is the issue.
[25:44.130 --> 25:51.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: The same telecommunications act in 1996 that escalated the value of the Pacifica stations did the same to stations like WEVD.
[25:51.670 --> 26:12.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Isn't it ironic that when Rupert Murdoch had problems gaining multiple ownership of radio, TV, and newspapers he had liberal democratic politicians like Ted Kennedy and Mario Cuomo advocating for him but when a liberal alternative radio station like WEVD is devoured by Disney the liberal democratic representatives like Chuck Schumer and Hillary Clinton remain silent on the issue.
[26:12.630 --> 26:17.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: They certainly had no problem finding WEVD when they were running for office but now they say nothing.
[26:18.530 --> 26:22.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Save WEVD is a volunteer organization of listeners to WEVD.
[26:23.070 --> 26:24.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our membership continues to grow.
[26:25.450 --> 26:26.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: We aren't going away.
[26:26.990 --> 26:32.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: WEVD was originally founded in 1927 as a living tribute to Eugene V.
[26:32.610 --> 26:34.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Debs great socialist leader.
[26:35.070 --> 26:36.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: It started I bet you didn't know that.
[26:36.430 --> 26:45.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: It started as a non-commercial listener-sponsored radio station dedicated to being the voice of labor and fighting for peace and social justice and that history must not be forgotten.
[26:46.030 --> 26:52.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Again, find out more www.savewevd.com And thank God it's not us.
[26:52.550 --> 26:53.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not this time.
[26:54.170 --> 26:59.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: But we must remain vigilant or it will be us at some point in the very near future.
[27:01.330 --> 27:02.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mike, you're back.
[27:02.490 --> 27:02.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm back.
[27:03.190 --> 27:03.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Welcome back.
[27:04.250 --> 27:04.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[27:04.650 --> 27:05.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: You were away all summer.
[27:05.850 --> 27:08.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: I was away all summer in California and other places.
[27:08.210 --> 27:09.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: What did you do?
[27:10.490 --> 27:10.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Where?
[27:11.290 --> 27:12.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you went away and...
[27:12.730 --> 27:13.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: I went away.
[27:13.270 --> 27:21.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: I was in California in Berkeley and Oakland for the summer working for AmeriCorps putting computers in the Oakland public schools.
[27:21.930 --> 27:22.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: AmeriCorps?
[27:22.470 --> 27:23.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's really their name?
[27:23.510 --> 27:23.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: AmeriCorps?
[27:24.470 --> 27:28.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: AmeriCorps is the Corporation for National Service.
[27:28.450 --> 27:29.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's funded by the federal government.
[27:30.070 --> 27:33.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: They claim to be like the domestic peace corps if you want their propaganda.
[27:34.190 --> 27:35.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Domestic peace corps.
[27:35.090 --> 27:35.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, so what kind...
[27:35.970 --> 27:38.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: You were basically hooking up schools in Oakland and things like that?
[27:38.790 --> 27:44.590]  [SPEAKER_00]: We hooked up 30 elementary schools, 4th and 5th grade classrooms, 1,500 computers among the 8 of us.
[27:44.710 --> 27:47.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: So now little kids are surfing the web thanks to you.
[27:47.290 --> 27:47.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully.
[27:48.410 --> 27:48.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's good.
[27:48.970 --> 27:49.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's good.
[27:49.510 --> 27:51.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: Surfing part of the web that's not blocked.
[27:51.610 --> 27:52.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, okay, tell us something about that.
[27:53.170 --> 27:56.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: You said that you saw a bit of blockage in the setup.
[27:58.070 --> 28:07.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: Under a state law and now a federal law, they are required whether they want to or not and they seem to want to but they couldn't anyway to install a filtering product.
[28:07.630 --> 28:18.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: They have chosen to install one called BESS made by the N2H2 company which blocks all kinds of interesting websites including 2600.
[28:19.370 --> 28:24.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: And by including 2600, they include the stream to this radio station because that's where it is.
[28:25.030 --> 28:25.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[28:25.470 --> 28:27.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: Cannot listen to WBAI.
[28:27.570 --> 28:37.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can't get the latest news as to what's happening with all kinds of court cases and other hacker-related issues which I guess are all taboo now.
[28:37.590 --> 28:44.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: I emailed them to request that the site be unblocked and they responded that the site contains profanity.
[28:44.890 --> 28:46.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, it is profanity.
[28:46.690 --> 28:52.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can probably find profanity on the White House site which, by the way, got redone the other day by them, not by somebody else.
[28:54.350 --> 28:55.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's profanity everywhere.
[28:55.590 --> 28:57.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Profanity is a fact of life.
[28:57.010 --> 29:01.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, I just don't understand this craziness here in this country.
[29:01.450 --> 29:05.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I was watching TV in other countries and, you know, they spoke English.
[29:05.790 --> 29:07.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: They spoke more English than we speak here.
[29:07.850 --> 29:08.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: It wasn't a big deal.
[29:08.970 --> 29:14.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: People, you know, don't seem to become all maladjusted as a result of hearing these nasty words.
[29:14.750 --> 29:23.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, there's, you know, things that obviously are controlled like pornography, you know, and I don't think anybody really argues about that.
[29:27.010 --> 29:31.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: I was not in some little town in the middle of nowhere.
[29:31.690 --> 29:32.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is a major city.
[29:32.930 --> 29:34.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, Oakland, they speak those words there.
[29:34.330 --> 29:34.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've been there.
[29:34.810 --> 29:36.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: They say those words a lot.
[29:37.010 --> 29:38.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Isaac, you have an answer for me.
[29:38.130 --> 29:39.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're protecting the children.
[29:39.450 --> 29:40.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: The children.
[29:40.210 --> 29:42.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, the children are a lot smarter than you give them credit for.
[29:43.010 --> 29:44.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're fifth grade children.
[29:44.370 --> 29:45.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've got to help them.
[29:45.230 --> 29:48.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: The argument I was given is not even that they're protecting the children anymore.
[29:48.850 --> 29:51.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now they are protecting themselves from possible lawsuits.
[29:52.050 --> 29:52.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah, lawsuits.
[29:53.150 --> 29:54.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: From the parents of the children?
[29:58.870 --> 30:00.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sorry, I'm watching the monitor.
[30:00.450 --> 30:01.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's people on the monitor.
[30:02.070 --> 30:04.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's such a distraction having that monitor on.
[30:04.610 --> 30:05.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: It really is.
[30:05.550 --> 30:06.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: Have you turned off the children?
[30:07.050 --> 30:08.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: I kind of like watching it.
[30:08.410 --> 30:08.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[30:08.670 --> 30:11.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: I like to see who's running into the station or running out of the station.
[30:13.730 --> 30:14.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[30:15.310 --> 30:18.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: We started last week, and this is related to what you're talking about, Mike.
[30:19.210 --> 30:22.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: We started last week to make a phone call.
[30:22.450 --> 30:23.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: It didn't quite go through.
[30:23.910 --> 30:25.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we did it late in the show.
[30:25.510 --> 30:27.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we have the dial tone now for this week.
[30:28.530 --> 30:31.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we are going to make another phone call.
[30:33.170 --> 30:36.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: And hopefully this one will actually go through.
[30:39.290 --> 30:39.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's see.
[30:46.400 --> 30:47.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the same ring.
[30:48.000 --> 30:48.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good evening.
[30:48.420 --> 30:48.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Easy Everything.
[30:48.860 --> 30:49.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: How may I help you?
[30:49.760 --> 30:50.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi.
[30:50.260 --> 30:50.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is this Easy Everything?
[30:51.140 --> 30:51.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[30:51.600 --> 30:54.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was wondering if you could tell me what's your policy on blocking...
[30:54.960 --> 30:55.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: On blocking?
[30:56.060 --> 30:57.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, blocking access to websites.
[30:59.100 --> 31:01.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or do you provide every website?
[31:01.440 --> 31:02.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I'm not...
[31:02.280 --> 31:03.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I don't think so.
[31:03.100 --> 31:04.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I'm actually not sure what the policy is.
[31:05.180 --> 31:06.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: How would I find out?
[31:07.240 --> 31:09.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: One second, and I'll ask.
[31:09.380 --> 31:09.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[31:14.260 --> 31:14.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: She's asking.
[31:18.930 --> 31:20.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's anything that WebSense thinks is inappropriate.
[31:20.630 --> 31:22.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: You pick it up and it's not the WebSense.
[31:24.030 --> 31:27.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's anything that WebSense thinks is inappropriate.
[31:27.130 --> 31:28.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: They block it.
[31:29.890 --> 31:30.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's it.
[31:30.910 --> 31:33.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: So if WebSense thinks is inappropriate, you block it.
[31:33.390 --> 31:35.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Who is this WebSense?
[31:35.310 --> 31:36.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have no idea.
[31:36.490 --> 31:36.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[31:36.970 --> 31:37.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Who is this WebSense?
[31:37.630 --> 31:39.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's WebSense.com.
[31:39.250 --> 31:40.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's an international company.
[31:40.730 --> 31:42.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's WebSense.com.
[31:42.150 --> 31:43.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's an international company.
[31:43.570 --> 31:44.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[31:44.270 --> 31:48.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And basically, you trust them to basically tell you what's objectionable or not?
[31:49.790 --> 31:50.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Seemingly.
[31:50.650 --> 31:51.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[31:51.570 --> 31:52.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, thanks.
[31:52.490 --> 31:52.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[31:52.970 --> 31:53.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye.
[31:53.430 --> 31:54.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye-bye.
[31:54.830 --> 31:56.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: I get the feeling that...
[31:56.370 --> 31:56.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: She was very nice.
[31:57.130 --> 31:59.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: I get the feeling she knew exactly what time it was.
[32:00.230 --> 32:02.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, apparently that's exactly what they do.
[32:03.330 --> 32:06.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Websense, now we know the name of the company that actually does the blocking over there.
[32:06.510 --> 32:07.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, Mike, you were just over there.
[32:07.830 --> 32:09.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Tell us something about what you just went through.
[32:09.490 --> 32:14.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: I went there, waited 10 minutes in line to pay my dollar to go on the web.
[32:14.470 --> 32:19.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I went to the terminal, logged on, and typed in the 2600 website.
[32:19.730 --> 32:23.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: And instead of seeing your website, I saw the Easy Everything homepage.
[32:23.430 --> 32:24.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Isn't that something?
[32:24.430 --> 32:27.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they don't even have the decency to tell you that they're blocking it.
[32:27.170 --> 32:28.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: They just redirect you to their own site.
[32:29.130 --> 32:29.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[32:29.710 --> 32:30.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: That is unbelievable.
[32:32.350 --> 32:38.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody, one of our readers, actually wrote to them to ask why they were blocking 2600.com.
[32:39.490 --> 32:40.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they got a reply.
[32:40.710 --> 32:41.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is what the reply said.
[32:41.930 --> 32:44.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: You are correct that it isn't a hacker site.
[32:44.450 --> 32:45.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's one step removed.
[32:46.210 --> 32:49.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: From the site, you can obtain a magazine that is promoting hacking to hackers.
[32:50.750 --> 32:52.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Easy Everything is open to everyone who needs to get online.
[32:52.990 --> 33:02.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this means that there must be some filtering to ensure a measure of safety, for lack of a better term, for all our customers, children included, as well as for our computers slash servers.
[33:02.890 --> 33:06.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, it sounds like at least he got a real reply instead of a canned answer.
[33:06.290 --> 33:08.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, I'm sure this makes everything okay.
[33:08.790 --> 33:09.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: We got a real reply.
[33:09.970 --> 33:11.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: But come on, how dare these people?
[33:12.110 --> 33:13.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm trying to glass half full thing, you know.
[33:14.110 --> 33:16.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, the glass is broken and spilled all over the floor, okay?
[33:17.030 --> 33:18.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not used to what I'm trying.
[33:18.010 --> 33:21.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is a word I wish I could say right now, but I can't.
[33:21.350 --> 33:22.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: If I was in Europe, I could.
[33:22.390 --> 33:23.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's what it is, and you know it.
[33:24.170 --> 33:35.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, who are they to say that because it's promoting hacking, it promotes a magazine that promotes hacking, which is really not a valid definition at all, that for some reason that makes it inappropriate.
[33:36.110 --> 33:38.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I'm wondering when hacking became inappropriate.
[33:38.450 --> 33:38.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: Exactly.
[33:38.890 --> 33:39.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's besides the point.
[33:39.330 --> 33:41.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is not, you know, pornography.
[33:41.270 --> 33:47.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is not, you know, something that is tantamount to terrorism, like, you know, the old-fashioned kind of terrorism.
[33:48.810 --> 33:50.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's basically talking about technology.
[33:50.810 --> 33:52.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, maybe you don't like what we do.
[33:53.030 --> 33:54.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe you don't agree with what we do.
[33:54.610 --> 34:07.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: But to just block all access because you've determined that that kind of conversation is invalid, I mean, that's going well beyond protecting any children from anything indecent or dangerous.
[34:07.630 --> 34:08.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, it gets even worse.
[34:08.950 --> 34:09.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: This isn't happening.
[34:09.790 --> 34:14.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mike, you can verify it's not happening at Easy Everything, but it is happening at a couple of other sites.
[34:14.690 --> 34:27.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: In fact, if you go to www.peacefire.org, you will find all kinds of information about the various blocking software and ways around it, ways that you can figure out what's going on.
[34:28.370 --> 34:30.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Peacefire.org is blocked by a lot of those sites.
[34:30.870 --> 34:32.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: Another good resource is...
[34:32.190 --> 34:32.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: How convenient.
[34:32.790 --> 34:33.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Isn't that something?
[34:33.390 --> 34:42.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's sensorware.net, which doesn't contain so much technical information, but contains a lot of the political information, what's going on with blocking websites.
[34:42.990 --> 34:45.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I'll bet they're blocked in many places, too.
[34:45.390 --> 34:46.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: I assume they are.
[34:46.190 --> 34:46.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[34:46.910 --> 34:49.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: And adbusters.org, one of my favorite sites.
[34:49.450 --> 34:57.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're blocked by... not at Easy Everything, not yet, anyway, but by some of these other blocking packages.
[34:57.950 --> 35:03.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I really think it's time we declare all-out war on these people, because who gives them the right to do this?
[35:03.070 --> 35:08.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Who gives them the right to just, you know, say, okay, we've determined that this is not something you should look at.
[35:08.230 --> 35:10.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then companies like Easy Everything just blindly follow.
[35:10.870 --> 35:11.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, we trust them.
[35:12.050 --> 35:13.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: We trust what they say.
[35:13.250 --> 35:14.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're not going to ask any questions.
[35:14.750 --> 35:15.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, what's the alternative?
[35:16.190 --> 35:17.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: The alternative is for...
[35:17.450 --> 35:21.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: Easy Everything has to fund a whole bunch of people who go out on the web and look for objectionable material.
[35:22.410 --> 35:27.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: First of all, why is Easy Everything's responsibility to, you know, to block all this material?
[35:27.710 --> 35:30.510]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, this gentleman just talked about a federal law that requires...
[35:30.510 --> 35:31.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, that's for schools.
[35:31.330 --> 35:32.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's for schools and libraries.
[35:32.630 --> 35:34.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Last I checked, Easy Everything's not a school, thank God.
[35:35.350 --> 35:37.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it's the same mentality, you know?
[35:37.730 --> 35:38.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, fine.
[35:38.350 --> 35:43.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: If somebody is surfing pornography and Easy Everything, you can have a store policy saying, don't do that.
[35:43.750 --> 35:45.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you do that, you get kicked out.
[35:45.170 --> 35:46.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll come over and whack you on the back of the head.
[35:46.970 --> 35:54.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what's interesting is that the filtering software company's response is, yeah, we know our database is imperfect, but you can have local overrides.
[35:55.670 --> 35:59.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: So each person is trying to put the ultimate responsibility on the other.
[36:00.370 --> 36:03.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, do you see this as something that's non-binary?
[36:03.470 --> 36:04.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, can we...
[36:04.730 --> 36:10.790]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right now, if you think about the web filtering software as we have it, you're kind of saying that it's very coarse.
[36:11.290 --> 36:13.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you could make it more fine-grained, would you be happier?
[36:14.430 --> 36:17.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, give me a specific example of that.
[36:17.250 --> 36:23.350]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, instead of the entire 2600 website, just those one or two pages that they find to be relevant to hacking.
[36:23.350 --> 36:29.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, like the WBAI link page for all the online radio stuff is not related to hacking.
[36:29.790 --> 36:30.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you...
[36:30.050 --> 36:32.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, okay, but here's my objection to it.
[36:32.270 --> 36:36.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why is related to hacking something that people aren't allowed to see in their store?
[36:36.770 --> 36:37.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't get the...
[36:37.810 --> 36:38.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: What are they protecting?
[36:39.850 --> 36:41.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're controlling how people learn.
[36:42.150 --> 36:50.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: What if they say, well, you know, we don't want you looking at any Japanese sites because, you know, you might get the wrong idea about something, even though you have no idea what they object to.
[36:50.370 --> 36:51.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: They just... they could block that.
[36:51.950 --> 36:52.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have that ability.
[36:53.350 --> 36:54.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, why should we accept this?
[36:54.870 --> 36:55.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Did the people ask for this?
[36:56.010 --> 36:59.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Are people lining up saying, my God, block 2600, you know?
[36:59.350 --> 37:01.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think if you ask people, maybe we should do this.
[37:01.590 --> 37:07.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe we should march on over to Easy Everything and ask people going in, hey, you know, do you want 2600.com blocked?
[37:07.350 --> 37:08.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it bothering you?
[37:09.410 --> 37:10.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if it's not...
[37:10.570 --> 37:11.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: And they'll look at you strangely and say, what?
[37:11.730 --> 37:15.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, if it's not, then I think they have an obligation to unblock it.
[37:15.650 --> 37:24.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the point is, the reason why I'm taking this so seriously, these Easy Everythings, they move into towns, and they literally put all the other cafes out of business, you know?
[37:24.310 --> 37:27.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because they sell Internet access for pennies.
[37:28.230 --> 37:28.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yep.
[37:28.630 --> 37:32.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, if you go to a place like Alt.Coffee and Avenue A, you know, that's a real Internet cafe.
[37:33.130 --> 37:33.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't block anything.
[37:33.870 --> 37:38.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it's a lot more expensive than Easy Everything, I'll tell you that, because they actually have to pay their bills.
[37:38.490 --> 37:40.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, wait a second.
[37:40.250 --> 37:43.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have an alternative to Easy Everything, and yet you're still griping.
[37:43.130 --> 37:44.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they're going out of business.
[37:44.730 --> 37:47.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not that particular place, but Internet cafes everywhere are going out of business.
[37:47.930 --> 37:48.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know if you've noticed this.
[37:48.890 --> 37:49.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: So the public...
[37:49.030 --> 37:54.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the reason they're going out of business is because they cannot compete when prices are so artificially low.
[37:54.350 --> 37:55.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, have you walked into Easy Everything?
[37:55.970 --> 37:57.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, who's there?
[37:57.230 --> 37:58.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was my dollar.
[37:58.190 --> 38:00.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are a thousand computer terminals there.
[38:00.730 --> 38:01.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: A thousand.
[38:01.410 --> 38:03.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And yet they charge something like a dollar for three hours?
[38:03.770 --> 38:05.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you can't possibly survive on that.
[38:05.250 --> 38:06.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: They're raising their rates.
[38:06.270 --> 38:07.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's now a dollar for...
[38:07.490 --> 38:09.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was 26 minutes when I was there.
[38:09.510 --> 38:10.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: A dollar for 26 minutes?
[38:10.770 --> 38:11.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a time thing.
[38:12.230 --> 38:15.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, there's just no way you can possibly...
[38:15.290 --> 38:17.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's in Times Square, the most expensive real estate in the world.
[38:18.050 --> 38:18.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[38:18.390 --> 38:18.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know?
[38:18.790 --> 38:20.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I can't even imagine.
[38:20.530 --> 38:25.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: If they charged $100 a minute, they still wouldn't be making all their rent back.
[38:25.430 --> 38:26.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, don't forget.
[38:26.070 --> 38:28.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, they are selling coffee and drinks and things.
[38:28.150 --> 38:28.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah.
[38:28.470 --> 38:29.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: That really makes up for it.
[38:29.610 --> 38:30.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Coffee and drinks.
[38:30.390 --> 38:30.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the advertising.
[38:30.770 --> 38:31.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's going to do it.
[38:31.790 --> 38:32.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: What about connectivity?
[38:33.030 --> 38:34.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know what kind of connectivity they must have, too?
[38:34.730 --> 38:35.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: How much that much cost?
[38:35.610 --> 38:36.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's got to be a few teas, at least.
[38:37.170 --> 38:40.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: But the point is, people are not willing to pay more to have unblocked access.
[38:41.870 --> 38:43.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's why they're going out of business.
[38:43.510 --> 38:45.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you know, it's not really presented in that way, is it?
[38:46.050 --> 38:49.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: It should cost less to provide unblocked access.
[38:49.270 --> 38:50.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't have to pay for the filtering stuff.
[38:50.830 --> 38:51.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[38:52.290 --> 38:54.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: The point is, this is unfair.
[38:54.930 --> 38:55.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's, you know...
[38:55.910 --> 38:56.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why is it unfair?
[38:56.670 --> 38:56.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's personal.
[38:56.790 --> 38:57.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have an alternative.
[38:57.690 --> 38:59.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can go and spend an extra $3 and not be blocked.
[38:59.930 --> 39:00.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do I have an alternative?
[39:01.170 --> 39:01.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[39:02.050 --> 39:03.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a place right next door that I can go to?
[39:03.870 --> 39:04.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do I have to go all the way downtown?
[39:05.010 --> 39:06.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Can I go there at 3 in the morning?
[39:06.250 --> 39:07.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, is this...
[39:07.050 --> 39:11.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: They basically have cornered the market on this kind of thing, and nobody else can hold a candle to them.
[39:12.130 --> 39:15.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, if they're going to take that kind of responsibility, then I think they should answer to the consumer.
[39:16.770 --> 39:17.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have.
[39:17.710 --> 39:18.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think the consumers...
[39:18.770 --> 39:20.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, what I'm calling for is consumers to speak up about this.
[39:21.110 --> 39:22.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: Ah, well, that's what it comes down to.
[39:22.710 --> 39:23.470]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh...
[39:23.470 --> 39:25.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Remember, you vote with your dollars.
[39:25.410 --> 39:27.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, you vote with your, uh...
[39:27.470 --> 39:28.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Your voice as well.
[39:28.630 --> 39:30.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think that's something that people need to do.
[39:30.530 --> 39:31.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: So we'll be...
[39:31.010 --> 39:32.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be open to suggestion on that.
[39:32.870 --> 39:38.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mail us, O-T-H, at 2600.com, with suggestions on how we should deal with this little problem.
[39:39.510 --> 39:44.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: And also, you might want to visit the website of the, um...
[39:44.090 --> 39:47.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: I guess the corporate head of all these corporations.
[39:47.790 --> 39:56.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Easy Everything, Easy.com, EasyMoney.com, EasyValue.com, EasyRentACar.com, EasyJet.com.
[39:56.050 --> 39:58.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: If the man's name is Ebenezer, I'm going to be very upset.
[39:59.330 --> 40:00.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, the man's name is Stelios.
[40:01.070 --> 40:02.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't say much about him.
[40:02.390 --> 40:06.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, but it's www.stelios.com.
[40:06.470 --> 40:10.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: Why does it sound like he's, like, hiding in some volcano waiting to take over the world?
[40:10.270 --> 40:12.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's like the noble founder of the Wiz, you know?
[40:12.050 --> 40:12.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: You never see his face.
[40:12.890 --> 40:13.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't know who he is.
[40:13.810 --> 40:14.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, uh, he's out there somewhere.
[40:15.690 --> 40:16.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, uh...
[40:16.190 --> 40:16.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: All these companies.
[40:17.210 --> 40:19.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: All these companies are basically run by the same people.
[40:20.070 --> 40:20.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I don't know.
[40:21.010 --> 40:21.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's kind of scary.
[40:21.910 --> 40:27.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: But let's, uh, let's see if we can actually reach them and, uh, get them to listen to reason.
[40:27.990 --> 40:29.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't mean for that to sound like a threat.
[40:29.450 --> 40:31.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm just saying, you know, it's something that's, uh, that's important.
[40:33.030 --> 40:34.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, okay, we'll be taking phone calls.
[40:34.510 --> 40:36.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: 212-209-2900.
[40:36.230 --> 40:37.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: But first, I just want another gripe.
[40:37.650 --> 40:38.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: I just got to get out of the way.
[40:39.470 --> 40:40.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: You ever use PayPal?
[40:41.070 --> 40:41.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: PayPal.
[40:41.650 --> 40:42.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's that thing on eBay?
[40:43.030 --> 40:44.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, well, eBay is connected with PayPal.
[40:45.270 --> 40:51.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: PayPal is basically a way that you can, uh, pay people on the net, uh, with, uh, you know, just by emailing them.
[40:51.910 --> 40:54.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: A bunch of those things during a long period of time.
[40:54.490 --> 41:09.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: I had a situation last week where a friend of mine needed money, you know, and, and I was able to, to raise enough to give him so that, uh, you know, he could, he could pay the rent and, you know, get, uh, you know, the, the hounds off his doorstep.
[41:09.910 --> 41:13.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, but the thing was, how do you get the money to somebody fast, you know?
[41:13.650 --> 41:14.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Western Union.
[41:14.450 --> 41:18.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, yeah, Western Union is actually what I wound up doing in the end, but there's a big hefty surcharge for that.
[41:18.910 --> 41:20.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: PayPal was the option.
[41:20.350 --> 41:22.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: PayPal is an option because, uh, listen to this on their website.
[41:23.210 --> 41:32.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, for people who are, um, who I guess are, are buying something, which is, is, I guess technically what you're doing if you're sending somebody money, send money instantly.
[41:32.810 --> 41:34.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Send money instantly.
[41:34.410 --> 41:38.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: And for people who are, who are sellers, collect money instantly.
[41:39.370 --> 41:40.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Collect money instantly.
[41:41.270 --> 41:43.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: See the money in your account immediately.
[41:43.730 --> 41:44.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do you see those words?
[41:44.530 --> 41:46.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: See the money in your account immediately.
[41:47.990 --> 41:58.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, we went through this whole hullabaloo of, uh, of entering all this data, you know, uh, signing up for accounts because you have to be, you know, a, a registered, um, person.
[41:58.310 --> 41:58.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, it's an account.
[41:59.130 --> 41:59.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[41:59.650 --> 42:01.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so, uh, and, and you sign up with a bank account.
[42:01.890 --> 42:04.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, I already had an account, so I already had my bank account tied to this.
[42:04.990 --> 42:05.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[42:05.130 --> 42:07.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, so I sent the money, sent the money out.
[42:07.890 --> 42:08.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was a thousand bucks.
[42:09.650 --> 42:14.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sent a thousand bucks, got taken instantly out of my bank account and sent to him through email.
[42:14.470 --> 42:20.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, all he had to do was register for an account, enter his bank account number, and bang, it's in his bank account.
[42:21.010 --> 42:22.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Electronic fund transfer.
[42:22.310 --> 42:22.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Isn't it beautiful?
[42:23.070 --> 42:23.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wonderful.
[42:23.550 --> 42:24.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Except it doesn't work that way.
[42:25.050 --> 42:25.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-oh.
[42:25.370 --> 42:38.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: By the time he signed up and did all the things he was supposed to do, giving an email address, all that kind of nonsense, that's when a little page pops up that says, now you can do an electronic funds transfer, it takes three to four business days.
[42:39.110 --> 42:42.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but...
[42:42.530 --> 42:43.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Instantaneously.
[42:43.770 --> 42:44.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Collect money instantly.
[42:45.290 --> 42:45.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Instantly.
[42:45.570 --> 42:47.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: And see the money in your account immediately.
[42:48.070 --> 42:51.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: That, to me, does not translate to three to four business days.
[42:51.190 --> 42:52.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe I'm just stupid.
[42:52.270 --> 42:52.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe I'm thick.
[42:52.890 --> 42:57.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: But where in the world do they come off saying this, making this claim, when it's not true?
[42:57.490 --> 42:59.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a complete fabrication and lie.
[42:59.830 --> 43:01.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it gets better.
[43:01.190 --> 43:01.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: It gets better.
[43:02.710 --> 43:06.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: They put a limit on how much you can do on an electronic funds transfer.
[43:06.750 --> 43:08.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, we decided, okay, yeah, why...
[43:09.350 --> 43:18.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Despite the fact that it would have taken the same amount of time to mail a check, you know, okay, fine, we've already transferred the money, might as well just do the electronic funds transfer and wait three to four business days.
[43:18.510 --> 43:20.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it doesn't work that way.
[43:20.330 --> 43:21.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sorry, you can't transfer $1,000.
[43:21.930 --> 43:24.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can transfer a maximum of $500 per month.
[43:25.850 --> 43:27.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: $500 per month?
[43:27.390 --> 43:29.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, where does my money go for a month?
[43:29.710 --> 43:30.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Into PayPal.
[43:30.470 --> 43:32.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: PayPal keeps my money for a month.
[43:32.450 --> 43:33.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's robbery.
[43:33.610 --> 43:34.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's utter robbery.
[43:36.530 --> 43:36.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[43:37.390 --> 43:40.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, what we wound up doing is transferring it back to me, which you can do.
[43:40.690 --> 43:44.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, of course, I won't get it for three to four days, and I guess they're getting interest on it or something.
[43:44.550 --> 43:44.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just sitting around.
[43:45.210 --> 43:47.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I was just outraged by that.
[43:47.190 --> 43:52.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, if I'm misreading something, I'm willing to accept the possibility that maybe there's some part of this I'm not grasping.
[43:52.590 --> 43:56.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that's the impression that we both got going through all the different references.
[43:56.710 --> 43:59.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: You see the money in your PayPal account immediately, not your real account.
[43:59.990 --> 44:01.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, the PayPal account?
[44:01.150 --> 44:03.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, what good is my PayPal account if I can't access it?
[44:03.110 --> 44:06.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can send it to someone else and play this game forever.
[44:06.510 --> 44:09.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Except the money is never anywhere except PayPal.
[44:09.390 --> 44:11.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's their money, not mine at that point.
[44:11.430 --> 44:13.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: They do the transition, but they hang on to it a little too long.
[44:14.150 --> 44:25.030]  [SPEAKER_06]: One of the other alternatives I investigated a while back, I hope they're still in business, was egold.com, where basically you establish an account, and you can do so anonymously if you like.
[44:26.010 --> 44:28.490]  [SPEAKER_06]: They're like a whole bunch of crypto guys, and they have a lot of fun.
[44:29.350 --> 44:37.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you basically buy gold, and your account is actually maintained in gold bullion in their safe.
[44:37.430 --> 44:41.590]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you move the numbers around, and you can actually write checks against it and do the whole nine yards.
[44:42.070 --> 44:42.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: And it's kind of neat.
[44:43.370 --> 44:44.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's worth looking at.
[44:44.370 --> 44:45.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, well, you know, it's worth looking at.
[44:45.950 --> 44:46.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've got to play around with these things.
[44:47.230 --> 44:52.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I'm glad I played with PayPal, because I don't think I ever learned what a scam it is, unless I had actually played with it.
[44:53.350 --> 44:56.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I'm curious what other people's interactions with them have been.
[44:57.170 --> 45:00.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, a couple pieces of email, then we'll take some phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[45:01.190 --> 45:06.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just wanted to let Emmanuel know that Time Warner Cable here in Florida carries BBC World News on digital cable.
[45:06.350 --> 45:09.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not available on regular cable as yet, but he is right.
[45:09.330 --> 45:11.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is a great channel, along with Fox News.
[45:11.310 --> 45:12.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: It seems to be my favorite news source.
[45:12.430 --> 45:14.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a strange combination, but whatever.
[45:14.570 --> 45:18.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: The point is, we need more diverse sources of news.
[45:19.510 --> 45:23.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, here at the radio station, obviously, you can hear different diverse sources of news.
[45:23.310 --> 45:25.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: But how about, you know, the rest of the world?
[45:25.390 --> 45:28.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: How about, you know, if you're in Indiana or something?
[45:28.190 --> 45:31.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, what can you hear besides CNN, Fox, and MSNBC?
[45:31.790 --> 45:32.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: You should be able to...
[45:32.310 --> 45:33.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're all pretty much the same thing, you know?
[45:33.990 --> 45:37.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, soon enough, you're going to hear the satellite on the X-Band.
[45:37.290 --> 45:38.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, and do you think it's going to be any different?
[45:41.470 --> 45:42.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, what did your cable company say?
[45:43.250 --> 45:43.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: My cable...
[45:43.710 --> 45:44.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't have cable.
[45:46.570 --> 45:47.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't even watch television.
[45:47.870 --> 45:48.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: You don't have cable.
[45:48.510 --> 45:49.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: I guess, okay, you can get out of it that way.
[45:49.170 --> 45:50.330]  [SPEAKER_06]: I watch one or two programs on television.
[45:50.410 --> 45:57.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, well, I should have mentioned that, because I directed you to call them yesterday, last week, and demand BBC World.
[45:57.210 --> 45:58.770]  [SPEAKER_06]: I tried, but I don't have a cable company.
[45:59.010 --> 46:00.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, you can get out of it, then.
[46:01.270 --> 46:02.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was too busy to call.
[46:02.390 --> 46:03.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: I didn't get a chance myself, but I will.
[46:03.850 --> 46:04.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Shame on you.
[46:05.250 --> 46:05.970]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, you can...
[46:05.970 --> 46:06.870]  [SPEAKER_06]: You have DSS, right?
[46:07.190 --> 46:08.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, but they don't have...
[46:08.470 --> 46:12.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have BBC America, which is basically the BBC with commercials, which really kind of ruins the whole thing.
[46:12.890 --> 46:17.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's an embarrassment, really, because there's all these BBC things, and we're the only one with the commercials all over the place.
[46:17.730 --> 46:19.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: BBC World has very limited commercials.
[46:19.630 --> 46:20.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: BBC World has no commercials.
[46:20.770 --> 46:21.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have a few.
[46:21.490 --> 46:22.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where did you see commercials?
[46:22.590 --> 46:23.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Where did you see BBC World?
[46:23.810 --> 46:25.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: I was in Europe for a couple weeks.
[46:25.590 --> 46:25.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[46:25.990 --> 46:26.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought you were in California.
[46:27.210 --> 46:27.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: I was.
[46:27.730 --> 46:28.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've lied to us.
[46:28.390 --> 46:28.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's right.
[46:28.670 --> 46:29.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: He went to Denmark as well.
[46:29.530 --> 46:34.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: I went to Denmark and watched BBC World and saw, like, one commercial an hour.
[46:34.630 --> 46:35.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[46:35.150 --> 46:35.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, here's the thing.
[46:36.530 --> 46:44.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know where those commercials were coming from, but the BBC World that I watched in various parts of Europe basically didn't have commercials, and certainly during the newscast they don't.
[46:45.050 --> 46:48.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, they have it as half-hour blocks in some PBS stations.
[46:48.130 --> 46:49.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think Channel 21 has it three times a day.
[46:50.650 --> 46:53.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: But they line it up with all the corporate sponsorship beforehand.
[46:53.990 --> 46:59.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, this is made to you, brought people by mobile oil, made possible by, you know, a grant from...
[46:59.390 --> 47:00.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: ExxonMobil Foundation.
[47:00.150 --> 47:00.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[47:00.650 --> 47:05.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's like, you know, how expensive is it to, you know, to receive a program that's already being transmitted?
[47:05.370 --> 47:05.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know?
[47:05.710 --> 47:08.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: It couldn't take all that, you know, much fundage.
[47:09.550 --> 47:10.350]  But, um...
[47:10.350 --> 47:11.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: There are copyright issues.
[47:12.130 --> 47:13.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: There are rebroadcasting rights.
[47:13.410 --> 47:15.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: I assume that they want it to get out.
[47:15.630 --> 47:16.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's why they send it out in the first place.
[47:16.950 --> 47:17.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why would they want it to get out?
[47:17.330 --> 47:21.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway, the point is, the point is, it's a channel that anybody can get if you just demand it.
[47:21.970 --> 47:27.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Imagine 24 hours of news, you know, with, all right, maybe limited commercials, if any commercials at all, from a different perspective.
[47:27.930 --> 47:30.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, okay, you think we don't have the need for this?
[47:30.970 --> 47:39.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Watch any one of your existing cable channels, or listen to a news channel here in the city, and keep track of how much world news there is.
[47:43.410 --> 47:50.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: World news, I mean, something that does not involve the United States, like, you know, something that's happening, say, in Zimbabwe, or something that's happening in the Philippines.
[47:50.150 --> 47:51.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: What is this world thing of which you speak?
[47:51.750 --> 47:51.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[47:51.950 --> 47:53.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see, you're a prime candidate for this.
[47:54.510 --> 47:55.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Keep track of that.
[47:55.330 --> 47:58.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if it's more than, say, three minutes an hour, I will be shocked.
[47:58.470 --> 48:00.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I actually watch ITN on occasion.
[48:00.970 --> 48:02.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: ITN's not on anymore, so you haven't watched it recently.
[48:02.670 --> 48:03.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not on anymore?
[48:03.190 --> 48:04.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: It hasn't been on in over a year.
[48:04.610 --> 48:06.250]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's on at six on weekdays.
[48:06.470 --> 48:06.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's not.
[48:06.490 --> 48:06.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's not.
[48:07.030 --> 48:07.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[48:07.450 --> 48:08.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it's not.
[48:08.390 --> 48:09.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: When did that happen?
[48:09.270 --> 48:10.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know, a long time ago.
[48:10.630 --> 48:10.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh.
[48:13.410 --> 48:14.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was replaced by DVC World.
[48:14.830 --> 48:15.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's what happened.
[48:15.650 --> 48:16.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's on at seven.
[48:16.210 --> 48:16.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's six.
[48:16.730 --> 48:16.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: Seven?
[48:17.170 --> 48:17.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, let's take some phone calls.
[48:18.030 --> 48:19.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: One piece of news first.
[48:20.170 --> 48:25.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: The Russian programmer, Dmitry Sklyarov, was arraigned last Thursday.
[48:25.350 --> 48:25.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[48:25.670 --> 48:34.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: He's now facing five counts of violating the DMCA for a possible total of 25 years in prison and a $2.25 million fine.
[48:34.890 --> 48:40.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: And his company has now been brought into this also, and they face a $2.5 million fine.
[48:40.190 --> 48:41.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: But his company is in Russia.
[48:41.330 --> 48:43.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are they even going to be subjected to this?
[48:43.790 --> 48:49.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the CEO is currently in California trying to help Dmitry, so I don't know.
[48:49.170 --> 48:50.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Has a trial date been set?
[48:50.710 --> 48:53.410]  [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it's in November, but that could change.
[48:53.670 --> 48:53.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[48:54.430 --> 48:56.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's something I think we should definitely go out there for.
[48:56.570 --> 49:00.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: And there's also a legal fund if people want to mail a check.
[49:00.570 --> 49:00.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[49:00.710 --> 49:01.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's very expensive.
[49:03.290 --> 49:15.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: The check should be payable to DMH escrow agent for the Dmitry Defense Fund, and then sent to the Dmitry Defense Fund, care of Dwayne Morris and Hecksure LLP.
[49:15.390 --> 49:22.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's 100 Spear Street, Suite 1500, and San Francisco, California, 94105.
[49:22.610 --> 49:26.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, if people have some extra money, it would be much appreciated.
[49:26.310 --> 49:26.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[49:27.210 --> 49:28.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, let's take some phone calls.
[49:28.810 --> 49:30.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: And thanks, Mike, for all the work you've done on that thing.
[49:31.250 --> 49:35.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, being out there, I think, was a stroke of good luck because you were able to get back to us and what was going on.
[49:36.690 --> 49:41.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, hopefully, we'll keep people updated on that as well as all the other legal battles that are going on.
[49:41.050 --> 49:41.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[49:42.110 --> 49:42.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[49:43.110 --> 49:43.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[49:43.890 --> 49:58.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: This Thursday on West 23rd Street, the Winston Center, I believe it's the Harry Winston Center, 630, Amy Goodman, Bernard White, Robert Knight, some other people, and...
[49:58.750 --> 49:59.450]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sorry.
[49:59.730 --> 50:00.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm down your radio.
[50:00.530 --> 50:00.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[50:01.090 --> 50:17.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the other thing I wanted to say is, you know, I'm one of those fossils, long-term listeners, supporters of the station who are every day ridiculed, despised, and alienated, just alienated in what's going on.
[50:17.710 --> 50:33.250]  [SPEAKER_14]: And just a brief comment about what you said earlier concerning how great it is to sort of remember the old WBAI when people would call up and interchange of ideas would be going on and debate would be going on.
[50:33.250 --> 50:34.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[50:34.350 --> 50:41.510]  [SPEAKER_14]: I had called up a program earlier today, and in fact, they were talking about how great debate is.
[50:41.830 --> 50:48.470]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, this person's program, I think, is dedicated to something like the free interchange of ideas and something like that.
[50:49.630 --> 50:57.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I said, well, you know, debate is great, and I agree with you, and why don't we bring that concept to WBAI?
[50:58.730 --> 51:04.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, I was told to grow up, and this person hung up.
[51:04.590 --> 51:28.890]  [SPEAKER_14]: So what's happening is that people like yourself are being picked off little by little, and which is the design, management wants to keep the thing going and use our money to dispose of you, you know, Al Lewis, Amy Goodman, we will all be gone.
[51:29.190 --> 51:31.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have to stop contributing to this station.
[51:32.150 --> 51:33.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: Put pressure on them.
[51:33.770 --> 51:34.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[51:34.590 --> 51:35.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for your call.
[51:35.850 --> 51:45.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, I know that's an opinion to stop contributing, but that's something I can never sign on to, because if you stop contributing and the place falls apart, you don't have a place anymore.
[51:46.190 --> 51:50.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, at least while it's here, you have a chance of fixing whatever is wrong.
[51:51.910 --> 51:56.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are so many things, but, you know, I think the caller touched upon a very good point.
[51:56.870 --> 51:57.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Debate is good.
[51:57.950 --> 52:00.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: Debate is something that we should not fear.
[52:00.370 --> 52:05.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think that's a lot of what we've been seeing are people afraid to bring up certain issues.
[52:05.710 --> 52:12.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's what leads to, you know, a banning of topics, a banning of radio personalities, a banning of listeners.
[52:12.410 --> 52:14.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that kind of thing just is wrong.
[52:14.670 --> 52:15.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's completely wrong.
[52:15.530 --> 52:25.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: But at the same time, on the other side, there are all these factions developing and all these basically hit lists that are being made up as well.
[52:25.590 --> 52:28.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I think things are definitely going to change at some point.
[52:29.730 --> 52:33.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, a lot of the people who are on the outside will be on the inside.
[52:33.330 --> 52:34.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Will things change?
[52:35.150 --> 52:37.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you listen to a lot of people, no, they won't.
[52:37.290 --> 52:38.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: There'll be a new set of banned people.
[52:39.170 --> 52:42.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: There'll be a new list of things that aren't allowed to be talked about.
[52:42.810 --> 52:43.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's got to stop.
[52:43.930 --> 52:48.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the only way that can stop is open dialogue amongst all the people that are involved.
[52:48.410 --> 52:51.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: And not only open dialogue, respectful dialogue.
[52:51.430 --> 53:00.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not, you know, attacking people by, you know, the way they look, the way they sound, you know, anything else that, you know, you might be able to latch on to.
[53:00.430 --> 53:01.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just the issues.
[53:01.970 --> 53:02.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's painful.
[53:02.810 --> 53:03.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: It takes a long time.
[53:03.790 --> 53:05.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a real pain in the ass, but it's necessary.
[53:06.310 --> 53:08.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you can't just walk away from that kind of a thing.
[53:08.430 --> 53:10.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's true in any part of life, you know.
[53:10.170 --> 53:14.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, you can't just, you know, walk away from a problem and expect it to solve itself.
[53:14.870 --> 53:15.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to confront it.
[53:15.950 --> 53:19.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's not always, you know, it's not always pleasant.
[53:19.490 --> 53:20.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Sometimes there's yelling and screaming.
[53:20.830 --> 53:23.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: But in the end, it's the only way to confront something.
[53:24.030 --> 53:25.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, let's go to another call.
[53:25.250 --> 53:25.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[53:25.690 --> 53:26.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[53:27.230 --> 53:27.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: Emmanuel, how's it going?
[53:28.050 --> 53:28.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's Alex.
[53:28.650 --> 53:28.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, Alex.
[53:28.990 --> 53:29.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you doing?
[53:29.390 --> 53:29.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Not bad.
[53:29.770 --> 53:30.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: How are you?
[53:30.270 --> 53:30.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm pretty good.
[53:31.030 --> 53:31.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Welcome back, finally.
[53:32.070 --> 53:32.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[53:32.210 --> 53:32.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[53:32.490 --> 53:33.190]  [SPEAKER_13]: Good to hear your voice again.
[53:40.170 --> 53:42.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: I live there for a year, and I still miss it every day.
[53:42.190 --> 53:43.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: You lived in London, was it?
[53:43.550 --> 53:44.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, right outside London.
[53:44.690 --> 53:46.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: That town is broken, isn't it?
[53:46.250 --> 53:46.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[53:46.690 --> 53:48.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, everything is broken in that town.
[53:48.810 --> 53:49.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[53:49.430 --> 53:50.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's sad.
[53:50.670 --> 53:53.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: They don't really have any of those wonderful London phone booths anymore.
[53:53.930 --> 53:55.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, actually, I saw a few of those.
[53:55.750 --> 53:55.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: There are a few.
[53:55.970 --> 53:57.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, I think they're bringing them back now.
[53:57.430 --> 53:57.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[53:57.710 --> 54:00.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: People were generally pissed off about that, rightly so.
[54:01.010 --> 54:01.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[54:01.350 --> 54:12.130]  [SPEAKER_13]: But as regards being pissed off about things, I believe that there should be another round of censorware-blocking protests coming up in the next month or so.
[54:12.510 --> 54:19.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because, as I understood, CHIPA, what we protested against last year with the EFF, the compliance deadline is in October.
[54:20.910 --> 54:23.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wait, wasn't that this year you protested against that?
[54:23.550 --> 54:24.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that was...
[54:24.430 --> 54:26.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's calling from a payphone again.
[54:26.210 --> 54:27.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can't believe this guy.
[54:27.090 --> 54:28.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: He always calls from a payphone.
[54:28.790 --> 54:31.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're the only person I know who uses real quarters in a payphone.
[54:31.830 --> 54:32.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: Maybe they're not real quarters.
[54:33.150 --> 54:33.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's true.
[54:34.390 --> 54:35.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: They sound like real quarters.
[54:38.670 --> 54:39.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[54:39.470 --> 54:40.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's a bit of nostalgia, too.
[54:40.790 --> 54:41.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[54:41.590 --> 54:42.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, but hopefully we...
[54:42.890 --> 54:53.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, the whole Dimitri situation has really eclipsed a lot of things going on, and understandably so, but I'm definitely going to have another round of protests this coming October, so...
[54:53.250 --> 54:54.530]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, quick question.
[54:54.830 --> 54:56.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: How successful was the last round?
[54:56.890 --> 54:58.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: How successful was the protest?
[54:58.650 --> 54:58.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[54:59.010 --> 55:00.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: In terms of changing the legislation?
[55:01.010 --> 55:02.410]  [SPEAKER_06]: In terms of changing anything.
[55:02.650 --> 55:05.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: In terms of getting the word out, I think it was incredibly successful.
[55:05.950 --> 55:06.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, uh...
[55:06.670 --> 55:07.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: How far have we progressed?
[55:08.230 --> 55:09.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think Isaac wants immediate gratification.
[55:10.050 --> 55:12.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: He wants all the laws to be just knocked over immediately.
[55:12.310 --> 55:14.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm wondering why the laws were put in the first place.
[55:14.450 --> 55:14.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[55:15.010 --> 55:24.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it's a valid form of political expression, one that's guaranteed to you by the First Amendment, and I think you have to take hold of it and use it at every chance you can.
[55:24.750 --> 55:30.130]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can also jump up and down and wave your arms in the sky, but it isn't going to be very productive either.
[55:30.130 --> 55:33.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, that won't bring public attention to it, but protesting would.
[55:33.870 --> 55:38.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: When you go outside of the federal court building or the FCC building, people take notice of you.
[55:39.010 --> 55:39.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[55:39.490 --> 55:40.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: Especially in large numbers.
[55:41.390 --> 55:45.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: I know it made a difference with the Free Kevin movement when we protested outside Miramax.
[55:45.390 --> 55:46.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: We stopped the film from coming out.
[55:46.690 --> 55:51.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Not that we wanted to stop the film, but, you know, we wanted to make sure it didn't defame him.
[55:51.530 --> 55:53.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so far, it has yet to come out in this country.
[55:54.050 --> 55:57.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Boy, you know, I don't know if it's ever going to slink out into video.
[55:57.670 --> 55:58.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: So how long until that next round?
[55:59.210 --> 56:00.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: I believe it should be in October.
[56:01.210 --> 56:01.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sometime in October.
[56:02.210 --> 56:02.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay.
[56:02.530 --> 56:03.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that's next month.
[56:03.690 --> 56:04.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[56:04.790 --> 56:04.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: All right.
[56:04.970 --> 56:06.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: We'll keep you informed and we'll keep in touch.
[56:07.150 --> 56:07.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[56:07.670 --> 56:08.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Have a good night, guys.
[56:08.330 --> 56:08.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Take care.
[56:08.710 --> 56:08.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good night.
[56:08.790 --> 56:08.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye-bye.
[56:09.130 --> 56:12.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Another bit of news concerning the whole Kevin Mitnick case.
[56:13.050 --> 56:17.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Our film Freedom Downtime has been selected to play at the Woodstock Film Festival.
[56:17.750 --> 56:17.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Woo-hoo!
[56:18.230 --> 56:19.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's taking place later this month.
[56:20.390 --> 56:22.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is it finally, like, edited now?
[56:22.430 --> 56:23.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's been playing, you know.
[56:23.930 --> 56:24.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, okay.
[56:24.310 --> 56:25.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: It played at Howl.
[56:26.170 --> 56:28.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it played at the Chaos Congress.
[56:28.670 --> 56:29.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was late last year.
[56:30.650 --> 56:35.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: And basically, Woodstock Film Festival takes place from September 20th to 23rd.
[56:36.030 --> 56:37.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: A small world, too.
[56:37.230 --> 56:43.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, they're playing a documentary on KPFA, our sister station in Berkeley.
[56:43.270 --> 56:46.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: A 66-minute documentary will be featured at this as well.
[56:46.270 --> 56:48.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, a lot of really interesting things going on.
[56:48.890 --> 56:55.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you want information on ticket sales, the phone number is area code 845-679-4265.
[56:55.750 --> 57:01.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: But again, Freedom Downtime will be showing, I think it's on that Saturday night or Saturday afternoon.
[57:01.430 --> 57:04.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the whole event takes place from September 20th to 23rd.
[57:05.770 --> 57:07.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: And quite a few films being shown.
[57:07.690 --> 57:09.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's going to be a lot of fun up in Woodstock, New York.
[57:10.130 --> 57:12.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Do we have time for one more quick call?
[57:12.590 --> 57:12.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Real quick.
[57:13.050 --> 57:13.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[57:13.550 --> 57:13.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[57:14.530 --> 57:15.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'll just say this real quick.
[57:15.870 --> 57:16.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: Real quick.
[57:16.730 --> 57:18.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: I read James Bamford's books.
[57:18.350 --> 57:21.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: I read every kind of book known to man in terms of security stuff.
[57:21.430 --> 57:25.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the same thing they all say when it comes to blocking sites, when it comes to blocking information.
[57:26.650 --> 57:28.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: I talked to one PTA woman.
[57:28.310 --> 57:28.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: She made it clear.
[57:28.950 --> 57:33.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: She doesn't care if it was profanity or inappropriate.
[57:33.090 --> 57:38.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: She cared about the control because she wanted her children to be the way she wanted them to be.
[57:38.710 --> 57:45.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not so much to be productive, but to literally be, quote, exactly the same type of goose-stepper that she...
[57:45.090 --> 57:46.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I mean, she said it openly to me.
[57:46.450 --> 57:47.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: I never asked her for it to be.
[57:48.050 --> 57:51.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I said, well, if that's the way you want it, that's not the way I'm going to go for it.
[57:51.590 --> 57:53.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: So my brother, he listens to...
[57:53.030 --> 57:56.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: I always say, listen, you don't have to agree with anything I see or any website you see.
[57:56.250 --> 57:57.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to tell you what you're seeing.
[57:57.870 --> 58:04.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: If somebody wants to block it, hey, they can do what they want, but they should not block it just to make themselves the one in control.
[58:04.910 --> 58:05.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, thanks.
[58:05.530 --> 58:06.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: So it's not about profit.
[58:06.510 --> 58:07.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thanks for the call.
[58:07.330 --> 58:07.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: No problem.
[58:07.650 --> 58:10.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I think that's a very good point to end on.
[58:10.390 --> 58:11.310]  [SPEAKER_06]: Got a quick piece of news.
[58:11.490 --> 58:12.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: It better be 10 seconds or less.
[58:12.910 --> 58:20.190]  [SPEAKER_06]: On the 8th of September, a little after 5 o'clock, about 5.40, UNIX time interval hits 1 billion seconds.
[58:20.410 --> 58:20.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, great.
[58:20.990 --> 58:21.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: 1 trillion seconds.
[58:21.970 --> 58:22.550]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's that.
[58:22.610 --> 58:23.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: 1 E9 day, man.
[58:25.310 --> 58:26.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: 2600 meetings this Friday.
[58:26.510 --> 58:26.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll see you there.
[58:27.130 --> 58:28.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll see you next week on this show.
[58:28.750 --> 58:31.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: Email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[58:32.310 --> 58:34.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: And for Isaac and Mike, it's Manuel.
[58:34.530 --> 58:34.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good night.
[58:42.320 --> 59:18.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Heartbroken and attracted A sad, sloppy nose Looking for approval And easily impressed But where they say If why would I listen I need to know what I've been missing I'm no one you can trust All little boys Only curious lies Confusion turns me upside down Lost as quickly as I've found.
[59:19.060 --> 59:21.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: See me like the times of the night.
[59:23.040 --> 59:24.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll be really down.
[59:25.680 --> 59:27.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Alright gents, thank you for that.
[59:27.900 --> 59:30.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Off the hook, Emmanuel Goldstein and his crew.
[59:31.360 --> 59:34.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well folks, last weekend I was down in the backyard.
[59:36.320 --> 59:41.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, you know, to deal with Labor Day and all that kind of stuff.
[59:42.400 --> 59:44.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: In the background, I'm playing a little black style.
[59:45.120 --> 59:49.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, I spoke with the Mighty Sparrow for just two minutes or so.
[59:49.440 --> 01:00:00.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I just wanted to see if maybe I could just bring you a little flavour of what Sparrow had to say while he was in such a good mood after his fantastic performance.
[01:00:00.520 --> 01:00:01.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Check this out.
[01:00:01.960 --> 01:00:05.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right now I'm talking to the one and only, the famous Mighty Sparrow.
[01:00:05.460 --> 01:00:05.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, no.
[01:00:07.540 --> 01:00:15.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: When you're talking to his excellency, the Right Honorable Dr. Slinger Francisco, a.k.a.
[01:00:16.220 --> 01:00:19.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: the Mighty Sparrow, Calypso King of the World.
[01:00:20.620 --> 01:00:21.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, no, no.
[01:00:21.820 --> 01:00:24.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now you see, you see you guys, you guys just laughing at everything.
[01:00:24.600 --> 01:00:39.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: When you receive the post of Ambassador, you are known automatically as his excellency.
[01:00:41.720 --> 01:00:52.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: When you receive the order of the Caribbean Community OCC, you are automatically the Honorable.
[01:00:54.060 --> 01:01:03.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: And when you receive a doctorate from the University, honorary or otherwise, you are a doctor.
[01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:09.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: So when you are referring to me, sir, you have to address me properly.
[01:01:09.180 --> 01:01:20.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Your Excellency, Your Excellency, the Right Honorable Dr. Slinger Francisco, a.k.a.
[01:01:22.340 --> 01:01:26.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: the Mighty Sparrow, Calypso King of the World.
[01:01:26.580 --> 01:01:30.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, you guys can laugh and make a mockery of your own self.
[01:01:31.160 --> 01:01:34.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, only don't know how to respect all your own yet.
[01:01:34.480 --> 01:01:39.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have too much works to do to bring all your wrong, to make all your understand.
[01:01:39.580 --> 01:01:44.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: That the boy is like a rags to riches story, you know?
[01:01:44.800 --> 01:01:51.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: The boy who started from nowhere, to the point where you have to call him in protocol.
[01:01:52.420 --> 01:01:55.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Your Excellency, the Right Honorable.
[01:01:55.880 --> 01:01:56.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.
[01:01:59.900 --> 01:02:00.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm happy.
[01:02:01.860 --> 01:02:06.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Everybody, the response is stupendous.
[01:02:08.140 --> 01:02:11.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, everybody is happy.
[01:02:12.340 --> 01:02:15.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Massive big up to the WBAI pussy.
[01:02:15.460 --> 01:02:17.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is Shigalos and I just love being me.