Off The Hook - 2001-09-18

[00:02.220 --> 00:11.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: ...of civil liberties would automatically expire in a 90-day period and have to be renewed by Congress every 90 days.
[00:11.160 --> 00:12.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Jeff, you're not a miscreant.
[00:12.200 --> 00:13.580]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think that's reasonable.
[00:13.780 --> 00:16.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: First of all, you're not a miscreant.
[00:16.480 --> 00:18.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: Eddie and I, we both served in the military.
[00:18.380 --> 00:19.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: We served 50 years.
[00:19.720 --> 00:20.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know I did.
[00:21.220 --> 00:22.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and you did.
[00:22.600 --> 00:29.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: We recognize that these are, if there were ever emergency times, this is why we're doing this show.
[00:29.480 --> 00:39.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: The trouble is, giving... you know, we already passed a terrorism bill, which gave them pretty much carte blanche, if they had anything related to terrorism, to just throw up wiretaps.
[00:39.740 --> 00:40.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's in existence.
[00:41.120 --> 00:41.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: Schumer.
[00:41.640 --> 00:45.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Schumer's the guy that brought it, you know, and people criticized it, but they couldn't...
[00:45.400 --> 00:48.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: They should still have to get warrants for wiretaps.
[00:48.760 --> 00:51.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: They've got a secret court down here that's a rubber stamp for warrants.
[00:51.820 --> 00:52.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[00:52.460 --> 00:53.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: They've had it anyway.
[00:53.400 --> 00:55.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the point is, what good?
[00:55.240 --> 01:01.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, if we become complacent with politicians telling us we're giving them more money, this is the danger.
[01:01.760 --> 01:11.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: If we become complacent behind this crap, and when we know these guys don't know how to do it, what we're trying to address is what specifically should change.
[01:11.540 --> 01:12.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, Eddie.
[01:12.440 --> 01:16.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: I just want to say, we... you were talking about Title III wiretaps.
[01:16.960 --> 01:19.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, the terrorism bill, you don't need it.
[01:19.040 --> 01:20.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not Title III anymore.
[01:20.020 --> 01:21.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: I just use Title III...
[01:21.040 --> 01:26.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: The terrorism bill, you go in and you say, we've got a spy, we need it right now, and they do it, right now.
[01:26.220 --> 01:27.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is in existence without anything.
[01:28.040 --> 01:37.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: As you and I both know, a wiretap, historically, people don't come on the phone and say, I'm going to do something at a certain time, at a certain place.
[01:37.280 --> 01:39.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: They talk in code, which is good.
[01:39.620 --> 01:40.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: That keys you off.
[01:40.540 --> 01:51.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: But without the human factor, the guy who has infiltrated them to connect the dots, you just have an ambiguous conversation that you can't figure out.
[01:51.460 --> 01:53.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: So it's a combination of both.
[01:53.420 --> 01:57.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: You need the technical surveillance, but you need the human factor, too.
[02:14.160 --> 02:16.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're listening to WBAI in New York.
[02:16.880 --> 02:18.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: Stay tuned for Off the Hook.
[02:18.380 --> 02:20.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: The
[02:26.680 --> 02:31.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: more that I see, the less I believe.
[02:32.200 --> 02:37.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: The barbed wire fences have replaced all the trees.
[02:38.460 --> 02:44.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: The houses of God are full of sinners every week.
[02:44.480 --> 02:49.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Praying for forgiveness for those they leave to bleed.
[02:49.860 --> 02:56.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they keep telling me, it's not my concern.
[02:56.480 --> 03:05.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: But when petrol ones fly, when cars overturn, when you see children cry, because their cities are burning, who's going to show concern?
[03:05.940 --> 03:06.460]  The
[03:18.360 --> 03:23.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: more that I see, the less I believe.
[03:23.980 --> 03:29.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like countries split in two, through religion, tradition and greed.
[03:29.420 --> 03:35.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: The devil's curse is put upon those who have solutions.
[03:35.840 --> 03:41.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: And those like me too ignorant, to find my own conclusions.
[03:42.380 --> 03:44.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that what they're telling me?
[03:45.380 --> 03:47.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not my concern.
[03:48.060 --> 03:51.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: But when I see children cry, because that's all they can do.
[03:51.260 --> 03:54.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: They are crying for help, and they're looking at you.
[03:54.280 --> 03:56.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: What are you supposed to do?
[04:32.960 --> 04:36.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: The governing powers are confused.
[04:36.500 --> 04:38.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: The army's becoming bemused.
[04:39.960 --> 04:42.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Another bomb becomes diffused.
[04:42.760 --> 04:45.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the terrorists aren't amused.
[04:46.200 --> 04:48.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: Paisley is getting his shirt off.
[04:55.480 --> 04:57.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Shorter line remains.
[04:57.970 --> 05:03.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Another attack, leaves a widow in black, grieving for her bereeds.
[05:03.820 --> 05:09.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Another kid with a brick, gets shot in the back, and gets left on the pavement to please.
[05:10.140 --> 05:15.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they keep telling me, it's not my concern.
[05:15.320 --> 05:18.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not my concern.
[05:18.530 --> 05:18.650]  It's not my concern.
[05:33.260 --> 05:34.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not my concern.
[05:34.760 --> 05:34.840]  It's not my concern.
[05:34.840 --> 05:36.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Does anybody know any jokes?
[05:37.220 --> 05:39.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Does anybody know any jokes?
[05:40.320 --> 05:42.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Does anybody know any jokes?
[05:54.410 --> 05:57.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Does anybody know any jokes?
[05:57.530 --> 06:04.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: On this, what's bound to be probably one of the weirdest Tuesday nights we've had in ages, hopefully ever.
[06:07.470 --> 06:12.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And we have a lot of people here that we want to talk to, and we want to talk to you as well.
[06:12.870 --> 06:15.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: We'll take some phone calls and try to get through this.
[06:16.050 --> 06:17.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: And please bear with us.
[06:17.290 --> 06:28.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's going to be difficult because what happened, what everyone across the world has been talking about for the past week, without hesitation, without any kind of a break whatsoever.
[06:29.910 --> 06:35.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: It happened only a couple of blocks away from where I'm sitting right now, right in this studio here.
[06:35.910 --> 06:41.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's the weirdest sensation to know that, you know, just to know what occurred.
[06:41.430 --> 06:44.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the fact that it's not just on your TV set, it's real.
[06:44.910 --> 06:45.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: It really happened.
[06:46.490 --> 06:48.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, it really took place.
[06:49.570 --> 07:06.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: The first time heading into New York and just seeing what I was seeing on television in front of me, and that was last week, that was last Tuesday, because, as you know, of course, this dreadful thing happened last Tuesday morning at around 8.45.
[07:09.950 --> 07:33.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: And even though it was obvious that the city was going to be completely unlike New York from that point on, and certainly on that day, I felt this strange kind of drive, this obligation that the radio station was the place to be, the radio station was the place to gravitate towards.
[07:35.110 --> 07:48.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I'm quite certain that just about everybody here at this place who has been involved with this place over the years, over the decades, and of course a lot of the listeners probably felt the same kind of spirit of, this is the time to come together,
[07:48.730 --> 07:54.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: this is the time to reach out, communicate, see if everybody's okay, which we're still in the process of doing.
[07:57.890 --> 08:06.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so I headed out to New York last week, many, many hours early, because I knew it was going to be hell to get in, and it was hell to get in.
[08:08.950 --> 08:12.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: Weird, because driving from Long Island, it was amazingly quiet.
[08:12.670 --> 08:16.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: There was very few cars on the parkway or expressway.
[08:16.930 --> 08:24.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: But almost immediately upon hitting Queens, all of a sudden, wow, you couldn't move.
[08:24.310 --> 08:27.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was impossible to move forward.
[08:27.370 --> 08:39.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: So I knew that the best thing to do at that point, since the subways were running on partial schedules, was to just leave my car someplace and hop on a train and just try to get into Manhattan.
[08:39.410 --> 08:47.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it was such a weird phenomenon to see this, to see the streets of Queens.
[08:47.790 --> 08:53.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: I hadn't even gotten to Manhattan yet, but the streets of Queens, there were barricades, there were buses blocking Northern Boulevard.
[08:54.390 --> 09:00.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: I abandoned the parkway and the expressway and got onto some of the side streets and eventually made my way to Northern Boulevard.
[09:00.170 --> 09:03.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: And for some reason, buses were blocking certain intersections.
[09:03.370 --> 09:12.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I had to wonder why, what was going on all the way out in Queens that certain streets had to be closed off main streets, main arteries, and people rerouted onto side streets.
[09:15.050 --> 09:22.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: But eventually, I just parked my car in front of somebody's house someplace and then just got out and started walking.
[09:23.730 --> 09:30.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was my intention to walk to the 179th Street station and get on the F train.
[09:31.750 --> 09:36.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Of course, being an idiot, I didn't realize that I parked on Northern Boulevard and Tailside Avenue.
[09:36.370 --> 09:41.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, of course, I didn't realize that mistake until I tried to get back many hours later and realized I was nowhere near where I thought I was.
[09:44.650 --> 09:46.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: But eventually, I found a bus.
[09:46.310 --> 09:48.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I just got on the bus and took that to Flushing.
[09:48.150 --> 09:49.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: Buses weren't charging at all.
[09:49.490 --> 09:51.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: I just got on the bus and they just let you on.
[09:51.350 --> 09:52.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was the strangest feeling.
[09:53.330 --> 09:56.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: And there was just a mood around the whole town that was just different.
[09:57.010 --> 09:59.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, it was hard to put your finger on it.
[09:59.250 --> 10:03.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: People weren't, you know, openly sobbing or going hysterical in the streets.
[10:03.110 --> 10:07.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: But you could feel kind of a quiet that isn't normally there in New York.
[10:07.750 --> 10:09.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: And just kind of an intensity.
[10:09.490 --> 10:17.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's kind of this look that, you know, I'm going from point A to point B and there'll be no deviations today.
[10:18.750 --> 10:20.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've seen that look before.
[10:20.070 --> 10:29.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: I've seen that look before in documentaries about cities that are being bombed or that have been going through long civil wars and things like that.
[10:29.590 --> 10:30.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: And here it is.
[10:31.370 --> 10:32.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Seeing it on a bus in Queens.
[10:34.610 --> 10:40.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: Eventually, I made it to the number seven train, which actually was going to Manhattan to Grand Central Station.
[10:40.390 --> 10:44.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Actually was doing what the media says was impossible, getting into Manhattan.
[10:44.770 --> 10:47.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the people on the train just didn't seem that phased.
[10:47.250 --> 10:48.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: They were just reading the paper.
[10:48.810 --> 10:50.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: The World Trade Center is in back, burning.
[10:51.150 --> 10:55.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: You could see the smoke rising into the sky from the train outside.
[10:56.290 --> 10:57.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: And people are reading the paper.
[10:57.690 --> 11:01.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was the only person standing up in the front of the train looking in amazement.
[11:04.650 --> 11:10.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so eventually, the train got into Manhattan.
[11:10.330 --> 11:12.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: I found out that's the furthest south I could get.
[11:13.130 --> 11:15.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: So I had to meet up with some people, walk the rest of the way.
[11:16.770 --> 11:20.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it was a long walk from Grand Central to Wall Street.
[11:20.090 --> 11:32.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: And while there were police everywhere, there were all kinds of vehicles, all kinds of fire department and medical personnel and police everywhere, going in every direction, north, south, east, west.
[11:32.390 --> 11:38.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: They were going every place, blocking streets, just by foot, running around.
[11:39.650 --> 11:42.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: But still, it was not hard to get downtown.
[11:43.010 --> 11:45.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: There was nobody saying you couldn't walk down the street.
[11:45.790 --> 11:49.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think they were too busy worrying about the cars going down the streets.
[11:49.930 --> 11:51.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so it took a long, long time.
[11:51.830 --> 11:54.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: But eventually, we made it all the way down here.
[11:55.170 --> 11:58.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: The air was really, really thick with all kinds of debris.
[11:59.390 --> 12:03.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: You had to have something covering your face, or it would have been impossible to breathe.
[12:04.810 --> 12:16.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: And unfortunately, by the time we got here, which was right about 8 o'clock, it was close to 8, we found out that, in fact, power had been lost to this building and a couple of others in the immediate area.
[12:16.310 --> 12:20.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the radio station had been evacuated about an hour, hour or two hours earlier.
[12:21.130 --> 12:29.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: And so, while our transmitter remained unaffected, our transmitter was broadcasting just fine, there was no audio signal to the transmitter.
[12:30.090 --> 12:35.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: So basically, what that amounted to was silence going over the radio, which, unfortunately, was the one thing that...
[12:36.230 --> 12:41.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think we needed to have more than silence, obviously, in a time like this.
[12:43.030 --> 13:01.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: And we spent the rest of the night just kind of wandering around, just looking at things, looking at the reaction, I guess, just seeing all these emergency vehicles in every part of the city and seeing people, you know, strangers, friends, people that just all of a sudden meant a whole lot more,
[13:02.230 --> 13:15.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: you know, and spent hours just talking and, you know, small talk or talking about the devastation or talking about anything, just being glad to be around where you could talk to these individual people.
[13:19.730 --> 13:28.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it took a long time to get home, too, because of the aforementioned parking in the wrong part of Queens and taking two hours to find where I actually did park.
[13:28.630 --> 13:34.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: But after that, I just kind of didn't feel like going out again for a while.
[13:34.950 --> 13:57.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: I just felt like, I guess, what a lot of us have been feeling over the past several days, just kind of wanting to hibernate, wanting to get away from all of this, wanting to see people and just, you know, hang out and prize the quiet times, the times with the people that you didn't realize mattered so much.
[13:59.630 --> 14:06.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it was an eye-opener in many, many ways, because here's something that all of us, all of us were familiar with.
[14:06.690 --> 14:09.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: We had all seen the Twin Towers of Manhattan.
[14:10.170 --> 14:13.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: There was something we grew up with, something we became accustomed to.
[14:13.590 --> 14:14.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was New York.
[14:15.910 --> 14:23.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: And within the space of a couple of hours, they were destroyed completely, wiped off the face of the earth, and everybody inside along with them.
[14:24.270 --> 14:32.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it made you realize how, no matter how big something is, there's nothing permanent about it.
[14:33.150 --> 14:35.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: It can be wiped off the face of the earth, just like that.
[14:36.910 --> 14:41.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: And at the same time, I realized that all the small things that we take for granted, they matter more than anything.
[14:43.870 --> 14:46.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's kind of what I've been doing over the last week.
[14:46.230 --> 14:47.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Not a whole lot of work.
[14:48.310 --> 14:52.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Not a whole lot of anything, I guess, defined in our society as productive.
[14:54.670 --> 14:55.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: But a lot of...
[14:58.330 --> 14:59.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: a lot of seeking of comfort.
[14:59.970 --> 15:02.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that's what many of us in New York have been doing.
[15:03.610 --> 15:14.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I'd certainly like to talk to people here, both in the studio and people over the phone, see how we made out, how we're going to make out in the future.
[15:16.510 --> 15:18.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm glad this place is still here.
[15:18.750 --> 15:20.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sorry for all the time that we were off the air.
[15:21.210 --> 15:22.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: I wish we could have done more.
[15:25.090 --> 15:28.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: We have a lot of people...
[15:28.210 --> 15:30.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: a lot of people here...
[15:31.370 --> 15:32.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: in the studio.
[15:34.050 --> 15:35.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's start with the regulars.
[15:36.350 --> 15:36.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Isaac?
[15:37.010 --> 15:37.390]  Hey, Isaac.
[15:38.590 --> 15:39.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: Actually, and I'm wrong right now.
[15:40.010 --> 15:40.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: There you are.
[15:40.570 --> 15:41.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, there's a mic next to you.
[15:42.370 --> 15:44.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm glad you...
[15:44.250 --> 15:47.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: This is actually the first day I've seen you since it happened.
[15:47.530 --> 15:48.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Since the event, yes.
[15:49.030 --> 15:49.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: You look the same.
[15:50.630 --> 15:51.230]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah, yeah.
[15:51.390 --> 15:52.730]  [SPEAKER_20]: I look basically the same.
[15:52.970 --> 15:53.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[15:54.790 --> 15:59.570]  [SPEAKER_20]: It doesn't change you physically much, but it makes you think, to say the very least.
[15:59.990 --> 16:00.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, and it sure does.
[16:01.430 --> 16:03.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Where were you when it hit the fan?
[16:03.990 --> 16:05.690]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was on a 7 train on the way to Manhattan.
[16:05.790 --> 16:06.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: You were on a 7 train, too?
[16:06.630 --> 16:07.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Mm-hmm.
[16:07.730 --> 16:08.750]  [SPEAKER_20]: And it was...
[16:09.990 --> 16:11.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: I honestly don't remember.
[16:11.210 --> 16:14.950]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was a little bit east of either 33rd and Rawson or 40th and Bliss.
[16:16.810 --> 16:19.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I saw some of it happen.
[16:21.230 --> 16:23.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Were you looking out the window at the time?
[16:23.410 --> 16:24.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, I was reading a book.
[16:24.810 --> 16:25.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: Okay.
[16:25.490 --> 16:25.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: And...
[16:25.930 --> 16:27.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Was there a sound that could be heard all the way in Queens?
[16:29.950 --> 16:30.830]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was...
[16:30.830 --> 16:35.170]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, it wouldn't be anything you would pick up over the rumble of the subway.
[16:36.610 --> 16:41.650]  [SPEAKER_20]: The second impact I did hear because I'd gotten off the train.
[16:43.630 --> 16:49.590]  [SPEAKER_20]: But someone actually had spoken while we were on the train and looked out the window.
[16:50.570 --> 16:56.930]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, you know, it was some kind of very strange feeling before someone said something.
[16:57.050 --> 16:59.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you kind of look up and you just saw the smoke coming off the tower.
[17:03.190 --> 17:05.370]  [SPEAKER_20]: And we'd gotten to the next station and we stopped.
[17:05.930 --> 17:07.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: You had no idea it was a plane at that point?
[17:08.070 --> 17:09.110]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, it was...
[17:09.110 --> 17:15.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: My first instinct was, you know, something flew into the trade center, either a helicopter by accident or something.
[17:16.190 --> 17:17.190]  [SPEAKER_20]: It would be...
[17:17.190 --> 17:20.490]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was way too high and too large to have been a bomb.
[17:20.810 --> 17:29.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, you know, that would involve, like, UPS in a hand truck, you know, moving a large, heavy object up to that floor and putting it next to...
[17:29.050 --> 17:33.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: It seemed unlikely to me, but I basically saw the smoke.
[17:34.850 --> 17:40.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: I was on that platform when the second one went into the tower.
[17:41.870 --> 17:43.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: Did you see the actual plane?
[17:44.650 --> 17:47.790]  [SPEAKER_20]: I saw a dot, which I look back...
[17:47.790 --> 17:48.610]  [SPEAKER_20]: or I think I saw a dot.
[17:48.710 --> 17:51.210]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, I'm looking back and it's still kind of hazy.
[17:52.610 --> 18:06.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was obviously smoky as well, but it hit the tower and there was a delay before you heard this low kind of rumble, like a single sort of roll of thunder that came over.
[18:09.430 --> 18:12.250]  [SPEAKER_20]: And at that point, I was on foot back home.
[18:15.570 --> 18:20.090]  [SPEAKER_20]: You just saw a flash and you heard this sound that came later.
[18:20.290 --> 18:22.270]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was like watching lightning in a distance.
[18:22.630 --> 18:22.810]  [SPEAKER_20]: Right.
[18:22.930 --> 18:24.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: It would roll towards you.
[18:24.810 --> 18:27.990]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that was my immediate experience.
[18:30.250 --> 18:33.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: I kind of knew based on...
[18:34.430 --> 18:43.490]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, I didn't think about it, but I kind of knew that those towers were coming down when I saw the event simply because of the way they're designed.
[18:44.070 --> 18:47.490]  [SPEAKER_20]: And I'd been familiar with the way the structure works.
[18:47.630 --> 19:00.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's the thing that plagues me is knowing that now and realizing that had I been in the building at the time, especially the second building, I wouldn't have jumped to that conclusion.
[19:00.510 --> 19:03.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: I wouldn't have said, well, you know, the whole tower is going to collapse.
[19:03.730 --> 19:06.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: The whole World Trade Center is going to collapse because the plane hit it.
[19:06.530 --> 19:16.030]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, the first building I thought for the longest time was just some helicopter that, you know, managed to get a wind gust and blow into the building or something.
[19:16.150 --> 19:19.890]  [SPEAKER_20]: And that possibly could have been survivable for the structure.
[19:20.230 --> 19:29.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: But when I saw the second flash, which was basically this entire section of two or three floors engulfed in...
[19:29.470 --> 19:31.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: On the second building or on the first one?
[19:31.250 --> 19:32.470]  [SPEAKER_20]: On the second impact.
[19:33.210 --> 19:34.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: I saw that too.
[19:34.110 --> 19:34.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: I saw that on television.
[19:35.030 --> 19:38.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: I saw the airplane on television and I said, that airplane, you know, shouldn't be there.
[19:39.110 --> 19:40.850]  [SPEAKER_20]: That was obviously a lot closer than I was.
[19:40.970 --> 19:43.050]  [SPEAKER_20]: I mean, I was watching from very far distance.
[19:43.070 --> 19:47.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I thought that was just, you know, some idiot getting too close, you know, for one of the news.
[19:47.270 --> 19:50.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: I didn't realize how big the plane was either because it was kind of hard to tell the scale.
[19:50.590 --> 19:51.770]  [SPEAKER_20]: It was a 767.
[19:51.770 --> 19:54.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then I saw the explosion.
[19:54.650 --> 19:56.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: I said, why did the second tower just explode?
[19:56.590 --> 19:59.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: What, you know, it didn't make any sense at the time.
[19:59.850 --> 20:07.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then once I realized what had happened, I heard the commentators, it's very interesting to watch news when something like this is happening.
[20:08.270 --> 20:16.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: Some of them were speculating as to whether something horribly wrong had gone on with the air traffic control system that was somehow steering planes into buildings.
[20:16.530 --> 20:19.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: And yeah, they were theorizing about all kinds of things, but it seemed pretty obvious at that point.
[20:20.290 --> 20:31.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then, after all that, just to hear all the different reports coming from around the country of things all of a sudden, I heard a car bomb outside the State Department, I heard, you know, the White House, I heard the Capitol, and I heard the Pentagon,
[20:31.830 --> 20:33.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: plus a whole lot more.
[20:33.250 --> 20:39.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: I heard they were playing crashes in Colorado, and just this sense that it's all falling apart right in front of your eyes.
[20:39.430 --> 20:42.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, you know, things are very fragile.
[20:42.710 --> 20:44.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, our society is fragile.
[20:44.490 --> 20:47.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: We think that it's high and mighty, but yeah, you can destroy things.
[20:47.490 --> 20:49.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can totally take out cities.
[20:49.590 --> 20:50.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's a horrible reality.
[20:52.070 --> 20:52.870]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's buildings.
[20:53.250 --> 20:58.310]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's, unfortunately, the lives in those buildings, but you cannot knock out a society like that.
[20:58.390 --> 20:59.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I hope so.
[20:59.390 --> 21:08.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: I hope that's true, because I think that's the next thing that we have to face as to whether or not this is going to affect our society in a very negative way.
[21:09.790 --> 21:11.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Ken is here from Nuff Said.
[21:11.050 --> 21:11.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: How are you doing?
[21:11.910 --> 21:12.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[21:12.530 --> 21:14.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Why don't I still have the right mic?
[21:14.150 --> 21:14.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: This is the white mic.
[21:15.250 --> 21:15.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, you're white.
[21:16.050 --> 21:16.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[21:16.470 --> 21:17.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're switched in order.
[21:17.370 --> 21:17.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: There we go.
[21:17.830 --> 21:18.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Go ahead.
[21:19.090 --> 21:19.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: How are you doing?
[21:19.850 --> 21:20.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[21:21.010 --> 21:23.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: Actually, I saw you last week in front of the station, too.
[21:23.390 --> 21:23.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[21:23.730 --> 21:27.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: I came down here early to, you know, just to talk to people.
[21:27.550 --> 21:40.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: I felt the same sort of, you know, wanting to be with other BAI folks, people I knew who gave a damn and were intelligent and, you know, wouldn't have knee-jerk reactions.
[21:41.350 --> 21:48.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I left home right before the explosion at the Seven World Trade Center that knocked the power out of this building.
[21:49.610 --> 21:52.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I was very, you know, blissfully figuring out.
[21:52.490 --> 21:54.010]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know some of the people who are here.
[21:54.130 --> 21:54.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've heard them on the air.
[21:54.890 --> 21:55.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'll go down there.
[21:56.690 --> 21:56.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[21:57.130 --> 21:59.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, but we met up.
[21:59.190 --> 22:00.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: We didn't actually get in the building or anything like that.
[22:01.030 --> 22:01.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, we met up.
[22:01.970 --> 22:05.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: There was really no notice as to what was, what was going on, where people were.
[22:06.050 --> 22:08.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: And in fact, to this day, we still don't know where people wound up going.
[22:08.810 --> 22:11.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: The few people that did broadcast over the airwaves here.
[22:11.870 --> 22:12.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yes, that's a secret.
[22:13.230 --> 22:14.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: That apparently is a secret.
[22:14.610 --> 22:18.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And unfortunately, we were off the air 12 hours a day because of that secret.
[22:18.830 --> 22:20.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I don't know.
[22:20.830 --> 22:22.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: I just, I just think that was really, really unfortunate.
[22:22.630 --> 22:25.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of our best reporters, you know, have been banned and fired.
[22:25.610 --> 22:27.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, we lost their skills too.
[22:27.890 --> 22:28.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: A whole other issue too.
[22:29.910 --> 22:34.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: But we have to look at the really big picture here which affects the entire world.
[22:34.610 --> 22:38.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, how do you think this is going to going to impact us as a society?
[22:38.550 --> 22:40.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Do you see negative things coming out of this?
[22:40.190 --> 22:41.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: I see a lot of negative things.
[22:41.650 --> 22:47.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I also see people fighting those negative things which sort of gives me a little bit of hope.
[22:47.270 --> 22:50.930]  [SPEAKER_02]: But you kind of wonder because politicians, they want to be noticed too.
[22:51.090 --> 22:53.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: And of course, extreme behavior isn't what's noticed.
[22:53.950 --> 23:03.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the moderates who are dealing with this issue of all the politics involved in Palestine, Israel, whatever, the moderates are being ignored.
[23:03.470 --> 23:05.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: So the extremists are like, your way doesn't work.
[23:05.850 --> 23:06.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let's try my way.
[23:07.470 --> 23:09.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: And they're getting people going, yeah, you're right.
[23:09.390 --> 23:10.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: The other way didn't work.
[23:10.110 --> 23:12.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I hope that we let the other way work.
[23:14.030 --> 23:21.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right now, the sympathy of the entire world is lying with the victims of the Trade Center and to small extent the Pentagon.
[23:22.050 --> 23:22.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: As it should.
[23:22.710 --> 23:23.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: As it should.
[23:23.270 --> 23:25.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, you know, what a horrible way to go.
[23:26.070 --> 23:26.370]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[23:27.210 --> 23:31.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've been glued to the radio for a week, probably to an unhealthy degree.
[23:32.050 --> 23:33.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: But I can't tear myself away.
[23:33.570 --> 23:34.390]  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to know more.
[23:34.470 --> 23:35.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to know more.
[23:35.150 --> 23:38.330]  [SPEAKER_02]: I want to listen to all these damn experts that every station seems to have.
[23:40.030 --> 23:54.450]  [SPEAKER_02]: And one person who talked about terrorism in England had some interesting observation that when the IRA first started bombing in London, most of the Irish people were like, hey, they're not Irish.
[23:54.610 --> 23:55.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm Irish.
[23:55.250 --> 23:55.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're not Irish.
[23:56.150 --> 23:57.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Irish don't do that.
[23:58.090 --> 24:01.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then the British started rounding up anybody who was Irish.
[24:02.290 --> 24:04.970]  [SPEAKER_02]: They decided that everybody who was Irish was a terrorist.
[24:05.230 --> 24:18.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the sympathies of the Irish people switched from being with the victims of the bombings to being with the terrorists because the British establishment were lumping them in with the terrorists.
[24:18.470 --> 24:21.550]  [SPEAKER_02]: So they found themselves part of that whether they wanted to or not.
[24:21.810 --> 24:28.870]  [SPEAKER_02]: And even though those first sympathetic individuals may have never ever wanted to become a terrorist, their kids might have.
[24:29.070 --> 24:38.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: And so the reactions of the British, the extreme reactions of the British to the extremists And the IRA created more terrorists.
[24:38.730 --> 24:54.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I am scared to death that there's going to be extreme behavior on the part of the United States, of people representing the United States, that the people who... the Arabs throughout the world who are angry that people represented themselves as Arabs are doing this,
[24:54.310 --> 24:55.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: that they would never do.
[24:56.170 --> 24:59.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're going to be lumped in and their sympathies are going to switch.
[24:59.630 --> 25:04.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't want to see us be more... because if we'd be more terrorists, we're going to be more World Trade Center bombing.
[25:04.830 --> 25:05.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Absolutely.
[25:05.390 --> 25:09.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the Islamic world is as outraged by this as the Western world.
[25:10.090 --> 25:13.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think it's a very, you know, the horror...
[25:13.190 --> 25:13.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: What's personal with them?
[25:14.050 --> 25:20.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: The horror of this event is also a great opportunity for us to bridge any gaps that we have between the cultures.
[25:20.430 --> 25:25.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think the Islamic world wants to deal with this at least as much as us.
[25:27.070 --> 25:28.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: And you have to look at this.
[25:28.770 --> 25:34.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, I see everywhere on television, I see, you know, war on America and all the, you know, little catchphrases and things.
[25:34.830 --> 25:35.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: Things like that.
[25:35.470 --> 25:37.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: Which, you know, I understand why that's happening.
[25:38.090 --> 25:41.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I think we're missing an opportunity by just focusing on that so much.
[25:41.490 --> 25:43.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: This is a war on Islam as well.
[25:43.230 --> 25:46.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, look at what they have done, you know, to an entire people.
[25:47.010 --> 25:49.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Look how they've made them appear to the world.
[25:50.130 --> 25:54.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's something that has to be fought, you know, to the strongest degree.
[25:55.310 --> 25:59.170]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm thinking of the civil liberties that we lost in the U.S.
[25:59.250 --> 26:03.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: during the Cold War and during World War II, that we really didn't get back until Watergate.
[26:04.330 --> 26:07.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: When people were outraged that you could abuse power that way.
[26:07.910 --> 26:12.910]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't want to have to wait for some Watergate 20 years down the road to regain the civil liberties.
[26:13.290 --> 26:13.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: These things don't go back.
[26:13.970 --> 26:18.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, basically, all the barricades going up in front of all the federal buildings, they're not coming down.
[26:18.670 --> 26:21.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the thing is, they're not the answer.
[26:21.450 --> 26:25.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: That simply kind of ups the ante and says, well, you can't get us.
[26:25.630 --> 26:27.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: You have to think of something better.
[26:27.150 --> 26:27.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they do.
[26:27.810 --> 26:28.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: They think of something better.
[26:28.890 --> 26:30.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: They crash airplanes into the buildings then.
[26:30.770 --> 26:31.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Our own airplanes.
[26:32.110 --> 26:33.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: They didn't even use their own.
[26:33.450 --> 26:34.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: They used ours.
[26:36.810 --> 26:38.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's an American on it.
[26:38.450 --> 26:47.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: In a way, in a way, I have to say that if all the barricades were not there, yeah, we would be open to more risk of terrorism.
[26:47.950 --> 26:53.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: But we would also, I don't think we would feel as victimized by it.
[26:53.870 --> 27:01.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it's kind of hard to explain this, but I think terrorism is always going to be a reality of life.
[27:01.210 --> 27:03.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: And we have to deal with that.
[27:03.110 --> 27:07.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: We have to kind of protect ourselves in a different way.
[27:07.670 --> 27:10.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's not by erecting barricades and closing things and searching everybody.
[27:13.010 --> 27:15.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's figuring out how this happened in the first place.
[27:15.910 --> 27:19.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that's what really gets me kind of angry, is that we don't pay attention.
[27:19.970 --> 27:20.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: We don't pay attention.
[27:20.970 --> 27:24.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I've been railing about this for weeks, ever since I got back from Europe.
[27:26.170 --> 27:31.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: How people in America, people in the United States, do not seem to care what's going on in the rest of the world.
[27:31.150 --> 27:34.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: We don't watch the news from other countries, everything.
[27:34.830 --> 27:39.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: In fact, right before this happened, literally, moments before this happened, I was up early.
[27:39.330 --> 27:40.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: I never get up at this time.
[27:40.630 --> 27:41.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I had jury duty.
[27:41.910 --> 27:44.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I actually hadn't been called that day.
[27:44.370 --> 27:52.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: But since my hours were exactly the opposite of the hours they would have to be if I did get called, I had to kind of wean myself to, like, waking up in the morning.
[27:52.210 --> 27:56.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: So I woke up at 7 in the morning because I might have to wake up at 7 in the morning the next day.
[27:57.330 --> 28:00.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: And when I did that, I turned on the TV to see if there was any news on.
[28:00.250 --> 28:01.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, yeah, there was news.
[28:01.550 --> 28:06.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Michael Jordan might be coming back to the NBA, the person who drowned her kids.
[28:06.070 --> 28:07.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: She's facing trial.
[28:07.330 --> 28:11.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, you know, all this stuff over and over again on all the channels.
[28:11.010 --> 28:20.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: There were, like, 7 different channels, and they all had the same stories, not a single one having to do with anything in another part of the world, just all this regional stuff.
[28:20.730 --> 28:21.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it just got me angry.
[28:21.950 --> 28:25.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I turned the TV set off and walked out to make some tea, and my phone rang.
[28:26.090 --> 28:28.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then the TV came back on for the rest of the week.
[28:29.210 --> 28:36.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I'm just saying, you know, by not paying attention to what's happening in the rest of the world, we don't see the warning signs of what's coming.
[28:37.610 --> 28:45.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, today I'm hearing that, you know, there's a report of a link between Iraq, you know, Iraqi intelligence, and one of the pilots.
[28:45.970 --> 28:47.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: They call them pilots.
[28:47.150 --> 28:47.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know why they do that.
[28:48.010 --> 28:51.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: The pilots are the people legitimately flying the planes, the hijackers.
[28:51.090 --> 28:51.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's call them what they are.
[28:51.830 --> 28:54.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: They're hijackers who, you know, managed to take control for a few minutes.
[28:55.510 --> 28:59.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, you know, there's a link now between Iraq and this.
[29:01.090 --> 29:02.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Are you surprised by that?
[29:02.370 --> 29:09.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, if you bomb a country every day for over 10 years, what do you think some people are going to do?
[29:09.790 --> 29:14.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, they're going to get very upset and make it their life's mission to destroy this country as well.
[29:15.810 --> 29:16.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: And, of course...
[29:16.990 --> 29:17.350]  [SPEAKER_02]: Robert E.
[29:17.410 --> 29:20.030]  [SPEAKER_02]: Lee knew that he had to bring the war to the north.
[29:20.430 --> 29:22.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: The entire civil war is fought in the south.
[29:22.250 --> 29:23.650]  [SPEAKER_02]: And he goes, we're not going to win.
[29:23.790 --> 29:25.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: If it stays here, we have to bring it to them.
[29:25.330 --> 29:27.950]  [SPEAKER_02]: Make them know the horrors of war, and they'll stop.
[29:28.550 --> 29:30.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's the same strategy.
[29:31.310 --> 29:32.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: We now know the horrors of war.
[29:33.030 --> 29:33.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Joining us...
[29:33.830 --> 29:34.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Won't that become a justification?
[29:35.250 --> 29:35.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, not at all.
[29:35.970 --> 29:37.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's not a justification, but...
[29:37.390 --> 29:41.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, but it's the political and military strategy behind it.
[29:41.690 --> 29:43.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's draw a cancer analogy.
[29:43.190 --> 29:44.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: You want to know how it forms.
[29:44.510 --> 29:48.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: It doesn't mean you're saying, yes, cancer, come and destroy people's lives.
[29:48.550 --> 29:54.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: But by understanding what causes it, maybe you can stop it before it actually victimizes you.
[29:56.150 --> 29:57.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're joined by Bernie S.
[29:57.670 --> 29:58.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: down in Philadelphia.
[29:58.310 --> 29:58.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Bernie, are you there?
[30:00.070 --> 30:00.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm here, Emmanuel.
[30:01.130 --> 30:01.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: Great.
[30:01.530 --> 30:11.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: And also, Terrence from Philadelphia, you might know him as Shapeshifter, the person that the federal government held on half a million dollars bail at the Republican convention last August.
[30:11.750 --> 30:13.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: He joins us here in the studio.
[30:14.110 --> 30:15.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: And let's know your microphone's working.
[30:15.970 --> 30:16.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, I'm here.
[30:16.970 --> 30:17.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good.
[30:17.490 --> 30:19.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: And Alex is here from the island.
[30:20.250 --> 30:21.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not on a payphone today.
[30:21.810 --> 30:23.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Not on a payphone, here in person.
[30:23.610 --> 30:26.130]  [SPEAKER_20]: We'll have someone come in and ask for a nickel every once in a while.
[30:26.210 --> 30:27.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, that'd be excellent.
[30:28.690 --> 30:29.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Thoughts, guys?
[30:29.550 --> 30:30.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Anything on your minds?
[30:31.490 --> 30:37.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: How about some of the new legislation that's being suggested for wiretaps and things like that?
[30:37.490 --> 30:39.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think that's particularly troubling.
[30:40.650 --> 30:46.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think, well, just before we came into the city, I just got an email from the ACLU who claimed that, you know...
[30:46.730 --> 30:48.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, Jerry Falwell blamed for this whole thing.
[30:48.610 --> 30:49.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: Did you know what I'm saying?
[30:49.590 --> 30:49.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, I know.
[30:49.950 --> 30:52.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: So the ACLU is responsible for what happened.
[30:52.150 --> 30:53.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, they're taking a lot of heat right now.
[30:53.250 --> 30:56.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: What an idiot, you know, to pin it on anybody like that.
[30:56.950 --> 30:57.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[30:57.350 --> 30:58.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's pretty terrible.
[30:58.410 --> 30:59.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: But they made a good point in the email.
[30:59.850 --> 31:00.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just sort of skimmed it.
[31:01.430 --> 31:03.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, you know, they said, you know, call your congressman.
[31:03.990 --> 31:07.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: Make sure that the next victim of this terrorism is not our civil liberties.
[31:07.710 --> 31:09.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think they make a good point.
[31:09.570 --> 31:17.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: But at the same time, you sort of understand where they're going with these criticisms of the wiretapping laws.
[31:18.090 --> 31:24.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right now, if the government wants to monitor somebody, they need to get a wiretap for every single telephone that you're using.
[31:25.170 --> 31:35.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, they want to change this so that if you go and use another telephone, if you go and use a payphone, or if you go and use your friend's telephone, they won't have to obtain another wiretap in order to monitor you.
[31:36.490 --> 31:46.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: They want to have the ability to just monitor you wherever you go without fail and by obviating all the due procedure that they're supposed to go through to obtain a wiretap.
[31:46.110 --> 31:49.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it makes a lot of sense if you really want to be able to track people efficiently.
[31:50.590 --> 31:53.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: It makes sense for the person that you're tracking.
[31:53.370 --> 31:55.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: But what is the side effect of this?
[31:55.530 --> 32:02.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Do you wind up tracking all the other people that, you know, are related in any kind of way to anybody who might have talked to this?
[32:02.470 --> 32:14.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I think it's terrible because we all know that the problem with this is that once you amend these laws, after the war on terrorism is over, the so-called war on terrorism, it's never going to go back to the way it was before.
[32:15.710 --> 32:27.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: One of the things that I think is really important to remember now is that domestic politics are usually going to dictate regular, you know, national politics.
[32:27.990 --> 32:38.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: So if we really make a ruckus about this and you make sure your congressman is called and your senator is called and you really voice your concerns about this kind of legislation, hopefully it won't go through.
[32:38.510 --> 32:41.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: But it seems like so much of the American people just really wants retribution.
[32:43.010 --> 32:45.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, you know, I thought that before today.
[32:45.670 --> 32:50.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Before today, I thought that that's pretty much what most people want is just retribution.
[32:51.770 --> 32:55.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: Then I went over to Union Square Park with you guys before the show.
[32:55.450 --> 32:57.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was blown away by what's taking place over there.
[32:57.930 --> 33:02.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I say to all our listeners, if you have not gone over there yet, please go over there as soon as possible.
[33:03.210 --> 33:06.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: This makeshift memorial has just completely enveloped the entire park.
[33:07.270 --> 33:19.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: Pictures of the people, the victims, and just people basically getting what they need at a time like this, a place to go, people to talk to and listen to.
[33:19.550 --> 33:26.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, you know, it's just, it's a very peaceful, harmonic, harmonious type of place to be.
[33:26.530 --> 33:31.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: And yeah, you know, of course there's anger at what's happened to us, but we have to heal.
[33:31.310 --> 33:32.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: We have to heal.
[33:32.370 --> 33:33.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think that's very important.
[33:33.710 --> 33:37.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can't just lash out irrationally without knowing what it is that you're going to do.
[33:37.830 --> 33:40.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I see that as, you know, the world reaction.
[33:40.390 --> 33:43.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: The world is really kind of worried as to what the United States is going to do next.
[33:43.810 --> 33:46.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think the world is on our side here.
[33:46.250 --> 33:55.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: We can work with people and get the situation taken care of in a way that makes sure it doesn't happen again, hopefully.
[33:57.350 --> 34:00.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: But what's happening in Union Square Park, I believe, is around the clock.
[34:00.050 --> 34:03.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: So just go over there and be part of it.
[34:04.270 --> 34:06.910]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's fitting that the very place is named Union Square.
[34:07.530 --> 34:07.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[34:08.370 --> 34:09.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, it's bringing people together, that's for sure.
[34:09.910 --> 34:11.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: There really is a reverence about that place.
[34:11.970 --> 34:17.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Once we walked into it, it just seemed like you had to be silent.
[34:17.650 --> 34:18.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: You had to be reverent.
[34:18.610 --> 34:19.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: There was nothing you could say.
[34:19.670 --> 34:20.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: There was absolutely nothing you could say.
[34:20.810 --> 34:23.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was just all the pictures, you know, all the candles.
[34:24.110 --> 34:25.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's just the human aspect of this.
[34:25.590 --> 34:26.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's something we forget.
[34:26.610 --> 34:35.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, I was driving around on the island over the last week, and occasionally you pass a mob of people standing on a corner waving flags, cheering, and, you know, getting people to honk the horn, they cheer.
[34:36.290 --> 34:37.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, you know, okay, fine.
[34:37.510 --> 34:40.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: I understand the feelings that come out in all that.
[34:41.130 --> 34:42.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: But what are we cheering?
[34:42.850 --> 34:44.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: What is the cheering about?
[34:44.290 --> 34:46.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Why are people acting happy?
[34:46.230 --> 34:47.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: This is not a time to act happy.
[34:48.090 --> 34:52.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: The time to act happy is when terrorism is gone and when we know we've won.
[34:52.390 --> 34:53.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know if that day will ever come.
[34:53.570 --> 34:56.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: But right now, I sure don't feel happy.
[34:56.370 --> 34:57.510]  [SPEAKER_20]: I don't think it's happy.
[34:57.610 --> 34:58.610]  [SPEAKER_20]: I think it's pride.
[34:58.950 --> 34:59.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, it's happy.
[34:59.870 --> 35:02.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, people are jumping up and down, drinking beers and getting drunk.
[35:02.230 --> 35:04.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, you know, I think they're not even paying attention to what happened.
[35:05.030 --> 35:09.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: They see this as an excuse to just, you know, go out and, you know, kick some ass and have fun.
[35:09.690 --> 35:10.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's wrong.
[35:10.330 --> 35:11.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's not what it's about.
[35:11.590 --> 35:12.430]  [SPEAKER_20]: I can't believe that.
[35:13.590 --> 35:15.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I'll take you to some key intersections on the island.
[35:16.090 --> 35:17.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can see it yourself.
[35:17.010 --> 35:25.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, you know, the people who are there just, you know, remembering, remembering the victims and...
[35:26.030 --> 35:28.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, getting drunk and yelling is another form of denial.
[35:29.170 --> 35:30.430]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's another way of escaping.
[35:30.690 --> 35:32.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you can't stop them.
[35:32.190 --> 35:33.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can't change the past.
[35:33.250 --> 35:34.070]  [SPEAKER_02]: So you just get drunk.
[35:34.310 --> 35:37.590]  [SPEAKER_02]: You escape life for a couple of minutes.
[35:38.070 --> 35:41.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Andrew Phillips is also here from days past.
[35:41.270 --> 35:46.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: In fact, Andrew is probably the person that we should give credit for this program ever starting.
[35:46.150 --> 35:50.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: He was the program director of WBAI back in the late 80s.
[35:50.510 --> 35:51.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he saw...
[35:51.090 --> 35:52.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: Late 80s, early 90s, yeah.
[35:52.050 --> 35:54.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: He saw a need for a program like this.
[35:54.870 --> 35:56.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he said, Emmanuel, you go and do that show.
[35:57.050 --> 35:57.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: And hey, I did.
[35:57.750 --> 36:01.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you were doing this show late at night, if you remember, and we just put it in a more accessible slot.
[36:01.930 --> 36:02.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[36:02.330 --> 36:02.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[36:03.210 --> 36:06.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: But, yeah, I came by the station today, Emmanuel.
[36:06.150 --> 36:07.170]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's great to see you, by the way.
[36:07.390 --> 36:07.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good to see you, too.
[36:07.850 --> 36:11.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you have voices behind, off the hook, which is a great show.
[36:11.390 --> 36:11.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Thanks.
[36:12.390 --> 36:15.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Needed at a time like this more than ever, by the way.
[36:16.150 --> 36:16.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: In my opinion.
[36:17.710 --> 36:22.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: I came by the station today because I couldn't stand not being here any longer.
[36:23.850 --> 36:27.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: We all know the station's been going through tremendous turmoil.
[36:27.530 --> 36:40.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: And what a tragedy it is here that we're not able to step up to the mark in the way we perhaps should or could because of other issues that have, unfortunately, occurred over here.
[36:40.210 --> 36:40.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: But here we are.
[36:40.930 --> 36:41.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Here we are.
[36:41.830 --> 36:59.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I really encourage other producers and people who are really serious and perhaps can set aside some of our differences to get out and do the work, just as those firemen are doing the work as we speak, amongst the stench down there and the horror and those spirits moving on to another place.
[36:59.850 --> 37:00.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, this is...
[37:00.610 --> 37:12.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: If this is indeed the beginning of World War III, let's wake up and let's do some work and live a day at a time and do our best to put out our best and to share our best with each other and the world, you know?
[37:12.790 --> 37:14.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, is that sentimental?
[37:15.190 --> 37:16.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: If it is, good.
[37:16.710 --> 37:17.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: So be it.
[37:17.650 --> 37:19.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: But we need to do some real work here.
[37:19.910 --> 37:21.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, we've got a big problem here.
[37:21.630 --> 37:22.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Big problem.
[37:22.370 --> 37:30.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't think we quite are able to comprehend what's happened, which is very understandable, of course, after such an enormous trauma.
[37:31.310 --> 37:36.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the reasons why it happened, yes, we absolutely do need to understand those.
[37:36.330 --> 37:38.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Will America ever understand those?
[37:39.150 --> 37:39.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know.
[37:39.970 --> 37:40.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: It'll take a long time.
[37:41.030 --> 37:41.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: Will it be too late?
[37:41.930 --> 37:42.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, we don't know.
[37:42.910 --> 37:44.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: These are apocalyptic times.
[37:44.570 --> 37:45.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Language has changed.
[37:45.610 --> 37:47.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: At last, the word awesome means something.
[37:49.470 --> 37:50.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know what I mean?
[37:50.810 --> 37:54.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, it's an important moment in our history, to say the least.
[37:54.810 --> 37:59.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'm glad you guys are here to be able to share some of your...
[37:59.850 --> 38:06.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: By the way, Emmanuel, tomorrow at 5 o'clock, the Eutrice lead, I came in, I said, put me on the radio.
[38:06.590 --> 38:07.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Let's do something.
[38:07.890 --> 38:12.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: So she said, why don't you go on the radio tomorrow at 5 o'clock, 5 till 6, behind the news.
[38:12.250 --> 38:13.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I'm going to come in and do something.
[38:13.670 --> 38:16.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm not sure what yet, but I'm going to do my best.
[38:16.490 --> 38:19.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: 5 till 6 tomorrow in the evening.
[38:20.250 --> 38:22.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I hope some of you will be listening.
[38:22.170 --> 38:23.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: I hope I can share something that's helpful then.
[38:24.410 --> 38:37.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I hope a lot more VAI producers follow your lead and just take part in this, because a time like this is when radio is so important, so intimate to people out there.
[38:37.790 --> 38:42.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, when I was working, about to go to work, I build gardens out in Brooklyn, work with stone.
[38:42.830 --> 38:43.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm a stone man, really.
[38:44.690 --> 38:47.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I turned on the TV, and there was no TV.
[38:47.330 --> 38:49.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was all snow, because the towers had been knocked down.
[38:49.970 --> 38:50.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't have cable.
[38:51.210 --> 38:53.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Finally found Channel CBS.
[38:54.010 --> 38:54.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Two, yeah.
[38:54.610 --> 38:55.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it turned on...
[38:55.470 --> 38:59.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: I actually had turned on VAI prior to the event, just to see if Democracy Now!
[38:59.730 --> 39:00.890]  [SPEAKER_16]: was back or what was happening.
[39:01.030 --> 39:01.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: It wasn't.
[39:01.950 --> 39:07.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: But Paul DiRienzo was describing this event, which at that point I thought, like you guys did, it was some kind of accident.
[39:07.990 --> 39:09.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: And then, of course, we learned it was not.
[39:09.710 --> 39:13.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it was a very, very...
[39:13.250 --> 39:17.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: I guess I'll talk more about that tomorrow, but a lot happened in this city.
[39:17.330 --> 39:21.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: And your description of Union Square, what a beautiful place.
[39:21.430 --> 39:23.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you know the other thing that struck me when I was over there?
[39:23.710 --> 39:24.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Twice I've been there.
[39:26.090 --> 39:29.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: All the candles are still alight, because it hasn't rained, and there's hardly any wind.
[39:30.290 --> 39:35.390]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's as if even nature knows to be silent in this time of mourning.
[39:35.390 --> 39:37.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: The world is almost still.
[39:37.970 --> 39:39.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's almost still.
[39:40.890 --> 39:41.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's right.
[39:43.230 --> 39:46.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: I guess we should take some phone calls.
[39:46.390 --> 39:47.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: We have a special phone number.
[39:48.010 --> 39:49.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, Terrence, I'm sorry.
[39:49.450 --> 39:50.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Totally missed you there.
[39:51.150 --> 39:55.970]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, one of the things that I'm really concerned about is the dehumanization aspect of this.
[39:56.170 --> 40:00.810]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, there's a lot of Arab Americans and Arabs throughout the world who are being dehumanized.
[40:01.250 --> 40:03.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: One of the things, I was at this Quaker...
[40:03.490 --> 40:06.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm from Philadelphia, and there's a lot of Quakers down there.
[40:06.310 --> 40:21.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I was at this Quaker service that this Palestinian woman, she got up and spoke, and she was like, you know, I'm a Palestinian, and I'm also American, but today I feel like I'm proudest to say that I'm a human.
[40:21.530 --> 40:30.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: And she said that, you know, she's really disturbed to see that on CNN they kept on showing this one clip over and over again of these Palestinians celebrating in the streets.
[40:30.850 --> 40:33.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, maybe that did happen.
[40:33.270 --> 40:34.990]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who's to say it probably did?
[40:35.110 --> 40:35.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: There was...
[40:35.550 --> 40:36.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: I saw that, too.
[40:36.930 --> 40:40.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I have to say, I saw that on BBC, which I've always sung the praises of.
[40:41.050 --> 40:47.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: But in this particular time, they showed the buildings burning, and on a split screen next to that, they showed these kids celebrating.
[40:48.090 --> 40:53.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, you know, to do such a thing, obviously, you know, these kids aren't the ones that did it, first of all.
[40:53.970 --> 40:59.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: But second of all, you do not know if they even knew the magnitude of what was going on.
[41:00.150 --> 41:01.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Who knows what they were told?
[41:01.810 --> 41:04.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: They probably were told that something bad happened to the U.S.
[41:04.130 --> 41:04.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, U.S.
[41:04.790 --> 41:05.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: enemy, that's good, we'll wave our flags.
[41:06.130 --> 41:06.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Who knows?
[41:06.410 --> 41:07.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Maybe they were just told to wave their flags.
[41:08.110 --> 41:11.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: The point is, it had nothing to do with the event.
[41:11.230 --> 41:13.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: To show that was just to foster hatred.
[41:13.130 --> 41:13.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And it did.
[41:13.770 --> 41:14.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: It really fostered hatred.
[41:14.790 --> 41:15.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: I saw...
[41:15.510 --> 41:16.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was on IRC at the time.
[41:16.650 --> 41:18.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: People were saying how they wanted to kill all Palestinians now.
[41:19.270 --> 41:21.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can really use media to control people.
[41:21.210 --> 41:30.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what people did not hear about was that Palestinians were going to Gaza Strip Hospital and giving blood to the Red Cross to be sent here to New York.
[41:31.490 --> 41:33.490]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's the one thing you saw.
[41:33.650 --> 41:34.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: I saw...
[41:34.050 --> 41:35.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: I was watching BBC, too.
[41:36.270 --> 41:39.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: In Philadelphia, there's a channel there that rebroadcasts BBC.
[41:40.210 --> 41:40.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: They actually...
[41:40.770 --> 41:41.950]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a public access...
[41:41.950 --> 41:42.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: You told me about that.
[41:42.690 --> 41:44.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: Is that an actual over-the-air TV channel in Philadelphia?
[41:45.210 --> 41:49.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's channel W-Y-B-E.
[41:50.090 --> 41:55.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: They broadcast British and German and French and South Korean news.
[41:55.230 --> 41:55.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's great.
[41:55.710 --> 41:56.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Bernie, do you know about this?
[41:56.830 --> 41:57.290]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[41:57.450 --> 42:00.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: And because of the law...
[42:00.770 --> 42:14.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: The federal law requiring that local stations be carried on cable, it's actually got a much wider audience through the cable system in Philadelphia than this weak transmitter that W-Y-B-E would normally reach.
[42:14.510 --> 42:15.490]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it's a good thing.
[42:15.490 --> 42:18.390]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think I remember hearing about it in the late 80s.
[42:18.530 --> 42:23.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: They started as a trade school or a small school station.
[42:23.730 --> 42:24.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it's grown.
[42:25.250 --> 42:26.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's a great local resource.
[42:27.030 --> 42:28.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, we need something like that up here, certainly.
[42:29.410 --> 42:30.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: Terrence, anything else?
[42:30.890 --> 42:31.370]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[42:31.430 --> 42:44.110]  [SPEAKER_14]: The other thing I saw on BBC is they didn't show the Palestinians giving blood in the Gaza Strip hospital, but they did go and showed a clip of Israelis from Israel giving blood in a hospital.
[42:44.310 --> 42:46.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it's sort of like they're very polarizing.
[42:46.710 --> 42:49.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think it's an important thing to remember.
[42:49.530 --> 42:52.190]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's a spectrum of how people deal with these things.
[42:52.330 --> 42:53.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, the U.S.
[42:53.290 --> 42:56.410]  [SPEAKER_14]: has done wrong in these other countries, and there's a spectrum of response.
[42:57.010 --> 43:06.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: Some people can understand that Americans have been dehumanized to people in those countries, and that's why we see things like the World Trade Center bombings.
[43:06.850 --> 43:16.090]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then there's people in those countries who are also giving blood and definitely understand what's going on here and understand that there's people, civilians, who are also hurt in this too.
[43:16.510 --> 43:21.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that it sort of goes both ways.
[43:21.230 --> 43:23.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I agree with you.
[43:23.130 --> 43:29.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: I saw that clip of the Palestinians dancing in the streets probably 20 or 30 times in one day.
[43:30.050 --> 43:38.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: And just once the next day did I see a group of mournful Palestinians where the corporate media actually came out and said, well, maybe they're not all bad.
[43:38.370 --> 43:39.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: And how many people were in that clip?
[43:40.450 --> 43:41.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Three or four.
[43:41.550 --> 43:43.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, and you kept seeing it over and over again in the same ten seconds.
[43:43.910 --> 43:47.450]  [SPEAKER_20]: Only about five or six children in the other clip, if you've seen it so many times.
[43:49.070 --> 43:50.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, we want to take some phone calls.
[43:50.770 --> 43:52.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let me first demonstrate.
[43:52.530 --> 43:54.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Bernie, hopefully I won't lose you when I do this.
[43:54.310 --> 43:55.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm going to play a dial tone here, so don't panic.
[43:57.590 --> 43:58.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Got a dial tone?
[43:58.470 --> 43:58.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[44:00.670 --> 44:02.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: That is a normal dial tone.
[44:02.130 --> 44:03.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Look what happens when you dial us.
[44:04.910 --> 44:05.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Whoops.
[44:05.450 --> 44:07.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, well, if you don't dial nine first on this new system...
[44:08.330 --> 44:09.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, hang on.
[44:09.110 --> 44:09.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hopefully I won't...
[44:10.650 --> 44:11.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, let's try that again.
[44:13.510 --> 44:18.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, if you dial us, if you even get to this point, this is the recording you'll get.
[44:27.580 --> 44:29.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, sometimes you don't even get a recording.
[44:29.400 --> 44:29.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: Ah.
[44:31.180 --> 44:31.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, it's not working.
[44:32.040 --> 44:32.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let me try it one more time.
[44:33.940 --> 44:37.060]  [SPEAKER_18]: As you can see, the whole phone system here is falling apart.
[44:38.180 --> 44:39.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't mean here at the radio station.
[44:39.600 --> 44:39.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean...
[44:41.460 --> 44:42.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: here in New York City.
[44:57.100 --> 45:01.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Due to a high calling biome, all of our circuits are busy.
[45:01.620 --> 45:03.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Please try again later.
[45:03.300 --> 45:03.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you.
[45:03.860 --> 45:04.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is a recording.
[45:06.280 --> 45:08.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: I love the guys who can switch to record these messages.
[45:09.280 --> 45:09.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, yeah.
[45:10.460 --> 45:12.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: Got that crusty sound.
[45:13.100 --> 45:13.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: A New York accent.
[45:14.080 --> 45:15.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: It is a New York accent, yeah.
[45:15.860 --> 45:19.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, I had all kinds of problems last Tuesday with phones.
[45:19.400 --> 45:20.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Of course, you know, I understand.
[45:20.620 --> 45:24.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was actually surprised the Sprint PCS and VoiceStream even stayed up at all.
[45:26.020 --> 45:28.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, of course, there are all kinds of problems getting through.
[45:28.320 --> 45:29.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: To this day, I'm still having problems.
[45:29.620 --> 45:33.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: We have a special phone number for people to reach us here at the station.
[45:33.560 --> 45:35.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know where this number came from, but it works.
[45:36.100 --> 45:41.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's area code 212-968-0500.
[45:41.200 --> 45:51.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: And please call us and let us know how this has affected you, any observations you might have had, any stories that you might have lived through.
[45:51.840 --> 45:52.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: Emmanuel?
[45:52.620 --> 45:53.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
[45:53.660 --> 45:54.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did you notice on Sprint...
[45:54.780 --> 45:57.120]  [SPEAKER_13]: I know you're a Sprint PCS customer, for better or worse.
[45:57.280 --> 46:05.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did you notice that long-distance calls were almost always, no matter where you were calling, were almost always met with an unusual recording?
[46:05.220 --> 46:06.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: What was the recording?
[46:06.000 --> 46:17.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it just said, your call cannot be processed at this time, followed by a tone, which I decoded as a touch-tone 5-digit.
[46:17.180 --> 46:17.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Really?
[46:17.820 --> 46:27.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I kept getting the same message, but I was able, by using a prepaid calling card from my Sprint PCS phone, to make calls almost anywhere, without any problem.
[46:27.640 --> 46:33.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: I noticed that when I checked my voicemail, I got a recording urging me to delete any unneeded messages.
[46:34.080 --> 46:37.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's like, what, are we stockpiling metal here or something for the war effort?
[46:37.420 --> 46:40.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't understand why my deleting my own messages is going to help out.
[46:40.760 --> 46:43.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: Don't they have enough disk space for their own customers?
[46:43.580 --> 46:44.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, the answer is no.
[46:44.520 --> 46:48.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: You have 10 or 20 people all calling this one person, asking if she's all right.
[46:49.020 --> 46:50.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know, you're...
[46:50.320 --> 46:51.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: That's not the impression I got.
[46:51.660 --> 46:57.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: I got the impression that the whole system needed me, you know, everybody, to delete their messages so other people can leave messages in other places.
[46:58.020 --> 46:58.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[47:03.300 --> 47:04.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's not what voicemail technology was.
[47:05.600 --> 47:09.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: And yet, when they lost the World Trade Center, they lost a lot of this voicemail stuff.
[47:09.640 --> 47:11.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: People lost voicemail throughout the city.
[47:11.700 --> 47:12.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Queens, everywhere.
[47:13.460 --> 47:13.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[47:13.880 --> 47:14.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's...
[47:14.320 --> 47:14.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: Andrew?
[47:14.980 --> 47:19.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Emmanuel, could I just ask you the expertise of your program, your co-hosts here?
[47:20.340 --> 47:22.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: What about cell phones in this situation?
[47:22.660 --> 47:24.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Cell phone calls made from airplanes?
[47:24.640 --> 47:26.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Cell phone calls made from under the ground?
[47:26.520 --> 47:30.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, cell phone calls obviously can be made from airplanes, as we've now seen proven.
[47:30.960 --> 47:40.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: The basic issue where they don't want you to use your cell phones, and they can tell you up and down that it's because it conflicts with the navigational systems, which I find more frightening than anything, if that's true.
[47:41.040 --> 47:43.040]  [SPEAKER_20]: But it basically comes down to the fact that...
[47:43.040 --> 47:46.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was so interesting, though, the way the cell phone was used as this tool.
[47:46.540 --> 47:48.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, it was such a terrific example.
[47:48.460 --> 48:00.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, this thing puts out, like, maybe 200 milliwatts, or maybe a watt if you got, like, a major digital phone, and the idea is that you'll wind up hitting so many cell sites from an aircraft that they don't want you to use it.
[48:00.820 --> 48:02.140]  [SPEAKER_20]: It doesn't mean it doesn't work.
[48:02.500 --> 48:08.220]  [SPEAKER_20]: In fact, it works too well, and you wind up just, you know, blanketing the whole area with your call.
[48:08.800 --> 48:21.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: And, yeah, people picked up their phones, and I was actually waiting for some commentator to say, well, you know what crashed that plane in Pennsylvania, all the people turning on their cell phones, and I would have, like, marched down to the station and just strangled that,
[48:21.500 --> 48:21.580]  [SPEAKER_20]: man.
[48:22.460 --> 48:22.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: But...
[48:22.820 --> 48:24.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, let's take some phone calls of our own.
[48:25.040 --> 48:28.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: Again, the number is 212-968-0500.
[48:28.880 --> 48:30.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's see who's out there.
[48:31.280 --> 48:31.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[48:31.940 --> 48:32.440]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on Off the Hook.
[48:33.180 --> 48:33.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello.
[48:33.700 --> 48:34.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: How are you guys doing?
[48:34.680 --> 48:35.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're doing okay.
[48:35.200 --> 48:36.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're getting through this.
[48:36.160 --> 48:36.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: How are you?
[48:37.720 --> 48:38.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm okay.
[48:38.340 --> 48:38.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm good.
[48:38.840 --> 48:42.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm driving right now downtown to Manhattan to do some work.
[48:42.640 --> 48:44.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a little worried about it, but...
[48:44.220 --> 48:47.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, don't drive past 14th Street or it'll be mayhem.
[48:48.100 --> 48:48.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, right.
[48:49.180 --> 48:52.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I have to do that, but I'm going to, you know, try to take it easy.
[48:53.340 --> 48:57.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: But anyway, I'm actually... it's nice to hear another Australian voice there.
[48:57.520 --> 49:03.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going to head back there myself with my wife and little baby very soon and hang out there for a few months.
[49:03.700 --> 49:04.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a little worried.
[49:04.720 --> 49:15.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the reason being is that, you know, all the... all the... all the little ingredients, you know, all add up to something that has... that has never happened before.
[49:16.020 --> 49:30.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I'm... my question is, I guess, I would like to know what you guys are thinking about Nostradamus' predictions and what, you know, how the number 11 I heard a little of, you know, has become a, you know, focal point.
[49:30.500 --> 49:45.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: He mentioned something about number 11 and the Twin Towers and slide 11 and... Nostradamus is like a three-foot cube cardboard box and you can throw anything you possibly have into it and say, oh, look, it fits so perfectly.
[49:45.520 --> 49:49.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but also a lot of people say that this is from Nostradamus when they made it up themselves.
[49:50.260 --> 49:52.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the other thing is that this is a human act.
[49:52.900 --> 49:55.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: If it was an earthquake, maybe you might have some credence there.
[49:55.360 --> 49:58.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: But humans said, hey, wouldn't it be cool if we did this on the 11th?
[49:58.980 --> 50:03.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: Because then it would spell 9-1-1 and it would be, you know, all kinds of stupid reasons.
[50:03.840 --> 50:05.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do they have 9-1-1 in Afghanistan?
[50:05.880 --> 50:07.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I imagine they studied here.
[50:08.040 --> 50:18.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's the other thing, this whole Afghanistan business, you know, I just find it very hard to believe that Afghanistan is our enemy.
[50:18.620 --> 50:21.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, the people of Afghanistan, they're living in poverty.
[50:21.760 --> 50:25.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, this is like probably the worst thing we could possibly do would be to start bombing in Afghanistan.
[50:25.680 --> 50:30.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: We need to find out who is really behind this and neutralize that particular source.
[50:30.720 --> 50:34.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, you know, I'm not seeing, I'm not saying it's not there, but I'm not seeing evidence pointing to bin Laden.
[50:34.860 --> 50:35.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: I really am not seeing it.
[50:35.860 --> 50:36.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Where is that evidence?
[50:36.780 --> 50:37.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: But that's honestly not the point.
[50:38.140 --> 50:42.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: The point of all these operations that people are suggesting is to eliminate terrorism.
[50:42.960 --> 50:47.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: We're not, you know, specifically revenging the people who committed this act.
[50:47.440 --> 50:53.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's the idea that there will be no more terrorist acts in the world.
[50:53.660 --> 50:55.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: That is the much broader perspective.
[50:55.560 --> 51:00.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: The impression I'm getting is that we're going after the people responsible for this particular act, not sweeping the entire world.
[51:00.640 --> 51:02.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: That, that prospect scares me even more.
[51:03.160 --> 51:06.980]  [SPEAKER_18]: Because then, you know, you have to define terrorism, you have to like put priorities on certain types.
[51:07.120 --> 51:10.800]  [SPEAKER_20]: That gets a lot more interesting, because they're talking about these multinational coalitions.
[51:10.960 --> 51:17.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: And you can imagine, say, even just the French, the UK, and the USA coming together and making this anti-terrorism coalition.
[51:17.820 --> 51:21.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: You know that at some point they're going to say, well, you know who's next on the list?
[51:21.580 --> 51:22.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: The real IRA.
[51:23.100 --> 51:28.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: And the US is going to go, um, well, isn't that your internal problem?
[51:28.880 --> 51:29.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: That was already...
[51:29.760 --> 51:30.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, wait a second.
[51:30.520 --> 51:32.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: They're bombing our buildings in London.
[51:32.360 --> 51:34.020]  [SPEAKER_20]: That came up in a press conference today.
[51:34.040 --> 51:34.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: That came up in a press conference today?
[51:34.880 --> 51:35.000]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yeah.
[51:35.540 --> 51:39.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Ashcroft was sort of backpedaling about whether he wanted to define the IRA.
[51:40.060 --> 51:43.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: He wouldn't say one way or the other, but they kept trying to push him to say something.
[51:43.860 --> 51:44.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: To say something.
[51:44.220 --> 51:45.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm curious about one thing.
[51:45.160 --> 51:52.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: If this whole thing had happened and it turned out to be another Timothy McVeigh type person from within the United States, who would we be bombing?
[51:52.520 --> 51:55.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Who would we be, you know, threatening war against?
[51:56.040 --> 51:58.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, something to think about, because this kind of thing can come from anywhere.
[51:58.900 --> 52:08.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I think, if I, if I may, I think, I think one has to be a little bit careful with the hypothetical at this point, because we've got so much stuff grounded in literal fact.
[52:08.780 --> 52:16.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, we've got an enormous number of people just evaporated off the bottom of the island a week ago.
[52:16.200 --> 52:17.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, they weren't evaporated.
[52:17.380 --> 52:18.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're still there.
[52:18.000 --> 52:20.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, well, parts of them are.
[52:20.440 --> 52:24.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: A terrible, terrible, terrible, um, tragedy for this country and the world.
[52:25.220 --> 52:37.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: We've got a situation where the president, who was in real trouble with the, with the economics coming recession in this country and a lot of other things, who's, who's getting saved by the skin of his teeth, which is a whole other story we don't have to get into now,
[52:37.580 --> 52:42.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: but who's marching off literally in what he describes as a crusade, a holy war.
[52:42.520 --> 52:47.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: And you'll also notice the enormous uh, way that religion and the state have gotten involved.
[52:47.540 --> 52:53.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: I went to St. John the Divine on the weekend and they, they played the Star Spangled Banner within the church.
[52:53.920 --> 52:57.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: And of course, there's, there's, there's religious references just riddled through politics here.
[52:57.940 --> 53:03.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: So this is really sense of a holy war that America is about to wage against the Islamic world.
[53:03.540 --> 53:09.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, when, when Bush made that statement, I think soon after that, he was wheeled into the mosque to sort of try to soften that image.
[53:10.020 --> 53:14.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think he was speaking off the cuff when he used the, the phrase crusade, the word crusade.
[53:14.360 --> 53:25.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: But this is the kind of situation he, he does want to wipe terrorism off the face of the earth, which I don't know whether that's possible actually, particularly without even getting into the nature of, of why the terrorism exists.
[53:27.660 --> 53:43.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think, uh, one thing to keep in mind here is like, if you go and bomb Afghanistan, you're just, you're sort of dishonoring and the people who died last Tuesday at the World Trade Center, because you're going to continue this cycle of violence, and more people will die.
[53:43.980 --> 53:48.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: When will it be enough to say, Hey, like, we're going to end this cycle of violence here.
[53:48.940 --> 53:54.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, if we keep on bombing, then more people are going to get more angry and, you know, attack the United States.
[53:54.820 --> 53:58.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then, you know, there's no like, chance for peace ever.
[53:59.040 --> 54:00.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that will just continue terrorism.
[54:00.900 --> 54:13.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it's like, people call terrorists people who work without states, but then the actions that the United States has taken and even the British in Northern Ireland can, could be considered terrorism.
[54:13.800 --> 54:17.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Denying people, you know, food and water is violence.
[54:17.740 --> 54:26.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think, uh, you know, bombing a city that has no running water anyway, like in Afghanistan and Kabul, like, that's, that's a violent act.
[54:27.100 --> 54:29.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: And people, we should just say enough is enough.
[54:29.740 --> 54:36.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Especially when you consider that probably the vast majority of people in Afghanistan have no idea what's going on right now.
[54:36.680 --> 54:37.900]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're not connected to media.
[54:38.340 --> 54:38.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's right.
[54:39.120 --> 54:40.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: They know enough to flee the country.
[54:40.840 --> 54:44.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's try, let's try and take, uh, one more phone call, because we're really running out of time here.
[54:45.020 --> 54:45.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[54:45.760 --> 54:46.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on off the hook.
[54:47.160 --> 54:48.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, good evening.
[54:48.780 --> 54:49.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: What's up?
[54:50.120 --> 54:54.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: I just found, uh, just an interesting juxtaposition.
[54:55.640 --> 55:01.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, one is, um, I work with the, uh, dramatically brain injured.
[55:02.120 --> 55:14.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, uh, the, the power of the media to, um, reach all, all members of our society is incredible.
[55:14.440 --> 55:18.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Several of my, uh, patients are Muslims.
[55:19.680 --> 55:36.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, within, um, or I'd say minutes of the occurrence, there were other members already abusing or mistreating, uh, Muslim members of my, um, group.
[55:36.900 --> 55:38.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: I run support group there.
[55:38.380 --> 55:38.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[55:39.400 --> 55:46.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, um, it was, uh, was sort of frightening that they're actually, the media reached them a lot faster than I did.
[55:47.560 --> 56:00.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: And then I had to, all of my other classes were, uh, spent on discussing what had taken place, who was, um, we, who was truly responsible, which is a fact unknown.
[56:01.500 --> 56:03.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: And that we don't respond to facts unknown.
[56:04.280 --> 56:06.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: We wait and we listen for information.
[56:07.220 --> 56:07.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[56:07.880 --> 56:22.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, um, I, I just, uh, attempted to deal with, especially people who are emotionally involved because of their injury, um, to offer some guidance.
[56:22.680 --> 56:25.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: That was the, uh, the experience that I had.
[56:25.500 --> 56:27.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: That, that's really all I wanted to say.
[56:27.080 --> 56:27.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: Thanks.
[56:27.760 --> 56:28.760]  [SPEAKER_18]: Thanks for, uh, saying it.
[56:29.320 --> 56:30.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, we're out of time.
[56:31.520 --> 56:35.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: I wish we had many, many more hours to talk to people and, uh, share experiences.
[56:35.700 --> 56:38.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I do want to thank people for, for listening.
[56:38.680 --> 56:40.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: I want to thank people for, for coming here.
[56:40.460 --> 56:45.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm glad everyone, uh, that, so far, it seems to be part of the BAI family seems to have gotten through this.
[56:46.620 --> 56:50.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, but of course, I know that, uh, a lot of our listeners were in those buildings.
[56:51.600 --> 57:02.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, um, I want to thank everybody who has, uh, emailed us over at 2600 with, uh, their kind thoughts and, uh, best wishes for our survival and future and that kind of thing.
[57:03.360 --> 57:08.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: I also want to urge people to, uh, stay tuned to this station because, uh, there'll be all kinds of, uh, good programming coming up.
[57:08.520 --> 57:10.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: I know, uh, you, Ken, will be on enough set at 10 o'clock.
[57:11.340 --> 57:11.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, I won't.
[57:12.000 --> 57:12.480]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, you won't be.
[57:12.600 --> 57:17.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm being preempted, but I'm doing a segment that's going to be on at two o'clock tomorrow, they tell me.
[57:18.100 --> 57:22.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm talking about how our community raised a whole bunch of money, uh, for the, across and firefighting.
[57:22.620 --> 57:22.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[57:22.760 --> 57:26.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: Speaking of which, 1-800-HELP-NOW, uh, the Red Cross donation number.
[57:26.620 --> 57:27.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, good.
[57:27.900 --> 57:31.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, um, at 12 o'clock, the Morris Orthodox Radio Crusade, terrific program.
[57:32.100 --> 57:37.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sure they'll be covering this in, in, in really profound and, uh, uh, emotional ways.
[57:37.500 --> 57:42.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: And at 1.30, a show I think, uh, a lot of us will be listening to is Weaponry with Tom Whisker.
[57:42.300 --> 57:44.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's going to be, uh, especially interesting this week.
[57:45.540 --> 57:47.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, uh, we'll be back next week, hopefully.
[57:48.580 --> 57:51.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, um, again, take care, everyone.
[57:52.240 --> 57:53.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: Look to the small things.
[57:55.080 --> 57:55.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: We'll see you later.
[57:56.060 --> 57:56.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good night.
[58:03.740 --> 58:04.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Look, Mummy.
[58:04.960 --> 58:07.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's snow playing up in the sky.
[59:01.870 --> 59:05.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did, did, did, did you see the frightened ones?
[59:06.390 --> 59:09.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did, did, did, did you hear the falling bombs?
[59:10.870 --> 59:21.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did, did, did, did you ever wonder why we had to run for shelter when the promise of a brave new world unfolded beneath the clear blue sky?
[59:46.660 --> 59:50.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did, did, did, did you see the frightened ones?
[59:50.680 --> 59:54.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did you hear the falling bombs?
[59:55.550 --> 01:00:00.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on.
[01:00:05.110 --> 01:00:08.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: Goodbye, blue sky.
[01:00:09.390 --> 01:00:12.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Goodbye, blue sky.
[01:00:13.150 --> 01:00:13.670]  [SPEAKER_06]: Goodbye, blue sky.
[01:00:13.670 --> 01:00:13.670]  Goodbye.
[01:00:40.580 --> 01:00:42.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're tuned to High Five.
[01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:45.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: WBAI 99.5 on your FM dial.
[01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:46.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: New York.
[01:01:09.450 --> 01:01:13.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: New York City are 700,000 children who live in poverty.
[01:01:13.790 --> 01:01:16.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: Almost half the children in the city are living in poverty.
[01:01:16.810 --> 01:01:18.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's 44% of the children.
[01:01:18.650 --> 01:01:25.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: The Committee Against Anti-Asian Violence released a report documenting what they say is a pattern of police abuse in a.