Off The Hook - 2002-04-09

[00:05.640 --> 00:08.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: We've got our station back, and we're glad about it.
[00:08.820 --> 00:11.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: But now, the really hard work begins.
[00:11.720 --> 00:19.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: We've started revising the bylaws and establishing the rules that we want for electing board members, locally and nationally.
[00:19.520 --> 00:28.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: The Interim Pacifica National Board and the Local Advisory Board and all the WBAI listener groups would like for you to join the Pacifica Bylaws Revision Committee.
[00:28.880 --> 00:30.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: We need your input.
[00:30.780 --> 00:36.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: So Thursday, April 11th, please come to 75 Varick Street at 6.30 p.m.
[00:36.640 --> 00:38.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: and be a part of this process.
[00:38.680 --> 00:40.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: And this week, do your homework.
[00:40.760 --> 00:48.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Go to www.pacifica.org and read the current bylaws and become an educated listener.
[00:49.040 --> 00:51.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's Thursday, 6.30 p.m.
[00:51.440 --> 00:57.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: at 75 Varick Street for the next meeting of the Pacifica Bylaws Revision Committee.
[01:02.860 --> 01:07.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York, where it's just about 8 o'clock.
[01:09.100 --> 01:09.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Time for Off the Hook.
[02:10.160 --> 02:11.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: And a good evening to everybody.
[02:11.300 --> 02:11.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: The program's Off the Hook.
[02:12.100 --> 02:14.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you as we are every Tuesday.
[02:15.360 --> 02:16.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: At this time.
[02:17.060 --> 02:18.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: And Harder Jack joins us.
[02:19.620 --> 02:19.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hello.
[02:20.320 --> 02:22.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's your cue to say hello when I say that.
[02:22.500 --> 02:23.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mike is here.
[02:23.620 --> 02:23.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: I am.
[02:24.220 --> 02:24.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Claude, you're here.
[02:24.940 --> 02:26.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: You had some trouble getting in downstairs.
[02:26.960 --> 02:28.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Some America under lockdown.
[02:28.580 --> 02:30.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Gestapo really did a number on you.
[02:31.720 --> 02:33.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're trying to get Claude into the building.
[02:33.700 --> 02:34.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: He's with us.
[02:34.280 --> 02:36.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they won't let him in because he doesn't have picture ID.
[02:37.060 --> 02:37.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's right.
[02:37.660 --> 02:41.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've been in the building a thousand times before, but they won't let you in because you don't have a picture of yourself.
[02:42.600 --> 02:46.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think, in particular, they want it to be a government-issued picture ID.
[02:46.480 --> 02:46.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
[02:47.800 --> 02:48.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Government?
[02:48.360 --> 02:49.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Does it matter which government?
[02:50.680 --> 02:53.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: State, federal, but the United States.
[02:53.680 --> 02:55.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have to do something to the guy downstairs.
[02:55.620 --> 02:57.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: A real joke or something like that.
[02:57.540 --> 03:04.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Where we bring in a full-size poster of us with a government stamp on it saying, Yeah, here's our ID for this week.
[03:04.500 --> 03:11.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or just come up with a crazy name that would not possibly be us or just strange symbols or, I don't know.
[03:12.060 --> 03:13.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or walk in with a mask.
[03:13.320 --> 03:14.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Although that's probably illegal.
[03:14.220 --> 03:15.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that illegal, Mike, to wear masks in the city?
[03:16.560 --> 03:16.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[03:17.100 --> 03:17.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, it's not?
[03:17.540 --> 03:18.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not if you're by yourself.
[03:18.800 --> 03:22.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Walk in with some Klingon masks or something like that and with IDs to back them up.
[03:22.220 --> 03:24.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: If three people all have masks, then that's illegal.
[03:25.340 --> 03:25.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, really?
[03:26.080 --> 03:26.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[03:26.200 --> 03:27.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, then we'll walk in separately.
[03:27.440 --> 03:27.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's okay.
[03:27.760 --> 03:28.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: We can't congregate as a group.
[03:28.880 --> 03:29.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: And Jim's here as well.
[03:34.560 --> 03:36.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, no, I've been good.
[03:38.220 --> 03:41.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've been pretty good too, but something bad happened.
[03:42.000 --> 03:42.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: I got the letter.
[03:42.780 --> 03:44.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: The letter that I knew was going to come eventually.
[03:45.180 --> 03:45.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Selective service?
[03:46.280 --> 03:46.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[03:46.940 --> 03:49.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: That one's been waylaid quite a bit.
[03:49.660 --> 03:54.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, this one comes from the friendly phone company that we know of called Voice Dream.
[03:54.740 --> 03:59.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I knew there was trouble right away because on the front of the envelope, I don't know how many people got this.
[04:00.060 --> 04:02.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe it's only people that were affected like I was.
[04:02.100 --> 04:06.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: On the front of it is, in red letters, important notice, international roaming.
[04:07.300 --> 04:26.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, for those of you who have been following the show over the past couple of years, ever since Voice Dream took over Omnipoint, there's been either a problem or a feature with their international service where when you go to foreign countries and you subscribe to a service called free international roaming,
[04:26.820 --> 04:34.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: which I interpreted as meaning free international roaming, you don't get any kind of charge on your bill when you get an incoming phone call.
[04:35.000 --> 04:36.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's really pretty amazing.
[04:36.700 --> 04:42.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: So you go to France, you go to the Netherlands or England, and somebody calls you from the United States.
[04:42.720 --> 04:53.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: They call a local number, and you simply talk as if you're talking to an incoming phone call, which is free over there if you have service in those countries, local service.
[04:53.620 --> 04:56.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we actually did some shows.
[04:56.780 --> 04:58.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, I think nobody benefited from this more than me.
[04:59.300 --> 05:09.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: We did some radio shows where people here would call the local number and talk for an hour, literally, with me walking around streets of various cities.
[05:09.800 --> 05:15.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it would show up on the bill as a 60- or 70-minute phone call, but the charge would be $0.00.
[05:15.960 --> 05:27.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: I thought it was great, you know, because it really was amazing to be able to ride on trains, you know, all over the countries and get phone calls from people and not have to worry, not have to worry about the bank account being depleted from talking.
[05:27.760 --> 05:29.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, just a nice, normal phone call.
[05:31.060 --> 05:34.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: I kind of figured it was too good to be true, and sure enough, this letter backs that up.
[05:36.120 --> 05:39.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: The letter is entitled, Billing of Incoming International Roaming Calls.
[05:39.880 --> 05:41.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: So it can't be more precise than that.
[05:41.700 --> 05:50.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: But VoiceStream, this is the usual introduction to a letter like this, VoiceStream strives to deliver to our customers the best wireless service and value in the entire industry.
[05:51.500 --> 05:56.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: We are continuing to expand our international coverage area and improve our international roaming services.
[05:56.880 --> 05:57.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[05:57.760 --> 06:02.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: In 2001, we worked to improve our infrastructure and network support for international roamers.
[06:03.260 --> 06:09.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: During that time, we did not bill most roaming customers for incoming calls received while abroad.
[06:11.060 --> 06:14.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Think of it as a thank you gift for supporting us during our growth.
[06:14.580 --> 06:16.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now it's back to business.
[06:18.720 --> 06:24.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Effective April 15, 2002, we will resume charging for all calls placed and received while traveling internationally.
[06:24.780 --> 06:26.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: I sense some kind of anger there.
[06:27.040 --> 06:33.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Like, we know you did something you weren't supposed to do, and there's nothing we can do about it, but this is your warning.
[06:33.100 --> 06:34.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not going to go on.
[06:34.120 --> 06:36.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: So you got away with it for a little while, but it's over.
[06:37.560 --> 06:41.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, according to this letter, we have until April 15, so if we can get a plane over to...
[06:41.300 --> 06:41.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's today's date?
[06:42.640 --> 06:43.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Today's the 9th.
[06:43.420 --> 06:43.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Today's the 9th.
[06:44.140 --> 06:46.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know, we can't do a show because next week is the 16th.
[06:47.020 --> 06:47.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, well.
[06:47.740 --> 06:54.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, if anyone is on a plane or at the airport and they have, you know, a GSM phone with them and they subscribe to Voice Dream, give us your number.
[06:54.360 --> 06:55.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll call you over and over again.
[06:55.540 --> 06:56.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can feel like you did something.
[06:57.820 --> 07:08.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's too bad, though, because it's probably going to go to some astronomical amount, like, you know, 69 cents a minute or something like that, and I'm just not going to talk on my phone anymore when I go over there because, you know, who wants to do that?
[07:08.320 --> 07:14.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: If it was something, you know, fairly affordable, you know, like maybe 10 cents a minute or something like that, then I think a lot more people would use it.
[07:15.040 --> 07:15.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it's really cool.
[07:16.260 --> 07:22.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nothing beats using the same phone over there and getting phone calls from people that you know and having them just call a local number and get you.
[07:22.340 --> 07:24.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the marvel of GSM.
[07:24.900 --> 07:26.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Unfortunately, greed tends to predominate.
[07:26.880 --> 07:34.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not that I don't appreciate what the incompetence that Voice Dream engaged in over the last year, which resulted in no billing at all.
[07:34.860 --> 07:36.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think it was really a present.
[07:36.400 --> 07:38.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think they said, oh, let's be nice to our customers and not charge them at all.
[07:38.880 --> 07:39.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think that's what happened.
[07:42.400 --> 07:45.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I just think they could be a little bit more fair with the prices.
[07:45.860 --> 07:46.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll see.
[07:46.160 --> 07:46.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll see what they come up with.
[07:47.040 --> 07:48.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I don't think it's going to be something like 10 cents a minute.
[07:49.000 --> 07:50.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it's going to be closer to a dollar.
[07:51.600 --> 07:53.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Jim, you heard something about Voice Dream on TV today, didn't you?
[07:53.580 --> 07:56.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it's kind of ironic that Voice Dream seems to be hitting the media.
[07:57.520 --> 08:11.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: WNBC Channel 4 in New York reported on its 5 o'clock show of a shocking lack of security and disregard of customers' privacy at their store at Fifth Avenue and 23rd Street.
[08:12.560 --> 08:25.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: Apparently, they left hundreds of applications out for the garbage, and they, of course, were opened up and were blowing up and down Fifth Avenue, according to this story.
[08:26.380 --> 08:34.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Applications including people's credit information, social security numbers, which surprised me, because why do you have a social security number when you apply for a wireless phone?
[08:34.580 --> 08:39.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, in fact, photocopies of driver's license of people who had applied for Voice Dream.
[08:39.520 --> 08:42.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: These are the people who applied as customers or as employees?
[08:42.440 --> 08:42.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[08:42.760 --> 08:43.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Customers.
[08:43.520 --> 08:53.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: So all the people that basically went into that store, Fifth Avenue and 23rd Street, across the street from the Sprint store, they had all their personal information?
[08:53.580 --> 08:57.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I'm not going to say all of them, but NBC alleged hundreds.
[08:57.620 --> 09:00.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: They had big piles in the hands of the reporter, Kendra Farr.
[09:00.640 --> 09:01.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: So NBC went trashing.
[09:02.300 --> 09:03.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: They actually went out.
[09:03.480 --> 09:10.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: NBC got a phone call from a Con Ed guy who was working right there who said, hey, you know, I'm standing here and the garbage spilled over.
[09:10.800 --> 09:11.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[09:11.640 --> 09:12.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: Just happened to spill over.
[09:13.480 --> 09:14.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, maybe he went trashing.
[09:16.220 --> 09:21.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then they went there and they put this on the news just before 6 o'clock this evening, earlier this evening.
[09:21.760 --> 09:23.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: This kind of thing has been going on for decades.
[09:24.280 --> 09:27.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: People walk around the streets and they find things in the trash that shouldn't be in the trash.
[09:27.820 --> 09:29.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, nobody seems to learn.
[09:29.500 --> 09:32.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, speaking of that, wait until you hear what I found in the trash last week.
[09:32.680 --> 09:33.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: What did you find in the trash last week?
[09:34.640 --> 09:39.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: The blueprints for the 911 call center in Police Plaza.
[09:39.340 --> 09:40.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, hand them over.
[09:40.280 --> 09:41.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: I left them home.
[09:41.620 --> 09:42.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, how convenient.
[09:42.900 --> 09:45.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I'll bring them in next week.
[09:45.600 --> 09:48.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're not going to let you walk the streets, you know?
[09:48.500 --> 09:49.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're going to be waiting for you at your home.
[09:49.940 --> 09:50.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Don't you realize what you've done?
[09:51.080 --> 09:51.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I was planning...
[09:51.920 --> 09:53.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: You put yourself in great danger, my friend.
[09:53.120 --> 09:53.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Great danger.
[09:53.800 --> 09:56.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: I was planning on presenting them to the highest bidder.
[09:57.800 --> 09:58.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[10:00.000 --> 10:00.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nice knowing it, Jim.
[10:01.820 --> 10:12.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Speaking of the media, if I read Wired today, there's quite a story that broke on Wired that's linking 2600 to Cyanide Anarchist, according to the title.
[10:12.980 --> 10:14.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Cyanide Anarchist, a hacker too.
[10:14.440 --> 10:17.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is the kind of thing you would expect to see in Wired, actually.
[10:19.280 --> 10:25.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're basically saying that FBI agents swooped down on a public gathering...
[10:25.380 --> 10:25.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is their wording.
[10:26.020 --> 10:41.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: ...swooped down on a public gathering of hackers loosely associated with 2600 and interrogated attendees about subway tunnels in Chicago, Illinois, where this guy who was arrested, I believe, a month ago for storing cyanide in the subway tunnels over there for some reason,
[10:42.060 --> 10:45.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: they want to see what the connection is between him and 2600.
[10:45.280 --> 10:49.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I can tell you there is no connection because no one I know has ever heard of this guy.
[10:49.800 --> 10:57.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the funny thing is, nobody from the 2600 meeting in Chicago has told us that anything like this happened in the first place.
[10:57.820 --> 11:06.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I think it's kind of odd that Wired, of all people, suddenly thinks that FBI agents are swooping down on our meetings when we don't even know about it.
[11:07.560 --> 11:10.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: If they're swooping down on any meetings, they're not 2600 meetings.
[11:10.260 --> 11:15.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: I can tell you that because I think that if they were 2600 meetings, they would tell 2600 about it.
[11:15.500 --> 11:16.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Doesn't that make sense?
[11:17.500 --> 11:18.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[11:18.180 --> 11:20.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: They can't see you not on the radio, but yeah.
[11:20.760 --> 11:25.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think that that's sort of known.
[11:25.800 --> 11:26.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: What's sort of known?
[11:26.640 --> 11:34.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: That the 2600 meeting in Chicago was swooped down upon by FBI agents.
[11:34.080 --> 11:35.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it's known now because it showed up in Wired.
[11:35.980 --> 11:37.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've gotten about 100 pieces of email now.
[11:38.720 --> 11:39.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Before that?
[11:39.580 --> 11:40.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[11:40.000 --> 11:41.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, what did you hear before that?
[11:41.940 --> 11:43.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: I forget his name.
[11:43.380 --> 11:45.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, Rob, you know Rob.
[11:45.340 --> 11:46.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: He sent an email out.
[11:46.080 --> 11:47.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: I know about 5,000 Rob.
[11:47.460 --> 11:47.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay.
[11:48.280 --> 11:50.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're a popular guy, so you know lots of those.
[11:50.620 --> 11:52.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: But from who...
[11:52.300 --> 11:52.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying...
[11:52.960 --> 11:54.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Who used between here and Chicago?
[11:54.180 --> 11:58.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, I'm not saying an FBI person or two did not come to a meeting and ask a couple of questions.
[11:58.480 --> 12:01.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, people from law enforcement show up, but swooped down.
[12:01.960 --> 12:04.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, this implies interrogation.
[12:04.440 --> 12:08.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: This implies a repeat of what happened in Washington, D.C., where basically people were detained.
[12:09.200 --> 12:11.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think that's not...
[12:11.060 --> 12:12.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: If that happened, we would know about it.
[12:12.780 --> 12:13.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: We would have been told about it.
[12:14.360 --> 12:15.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Being detained...
[12:15.540 --> 12:23.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: And to imply that this guy who stores cyanide in subway tunnels is somehow linked to the hacking community is also inaccurate.
[12:23.780 --> 12:25.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I defy anybody to prove otherwise.
[12:26.100 --> 12:29.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, is this person somebody of the hacker community?
[12:29.260 --> 12:30.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think we would have heard about that, too.
[12:31.140 --> 12:32.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, just because he...
[12:32.000 --> 12:35.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: When people get arrested in the hacker community, we tend to find out about it.
[12:35.380 --> 12:37.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have the feeling it was something particularly stupid.
[12:37.440 --> 12:39.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, he happened to have a cell phone on him.
[12:40.080 --> 12:41.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: And so, obviously...
[12:41.500 --> 12:44.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, again, it's possible that he showed up at a meeting once because...
[12:44.780 --> 12:45.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[12:45.300 --> 12:47.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: ...you know, our meetings are open to anybody.
[12:47.380 --> 12:49.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, yeah, you know, Bin Laden could have come to one of our meetings.
[12:49.800 --> 12:51.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: I suppose I'm going to get in trouble for saying that now.
[12:51.700 --> 12:59.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, you know, if he's walking through Citigroup Center on the first Friday of the month, then, yeah, you know, Mario Cuomo came to one of our meetings.
[12:59.300 --> 13:03.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, he was there in Citigroup back when he was known as that.
[13:04.040 --> 13:04.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: I remember that.
[13:05.000 --> 13:10.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: He wasn't there for the meeting, but you could say he was there at the meeting because it was the same place, same floor.
[13:10.540 --> 13:11.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mike Wallace was there.
[13:11.660 --> 13:13.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mike Wallace, but he was there for the meeting.
[13:13.560 --> 13:14.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: He was there to interrogate me.
[13:16.500 --> 13:17.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: But that was another story.
[13:18.120 --> 13:18.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did he swoop?
[13:18.860 --> 13:19.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[13:19.420 --> 13:20.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: He swooped down.
[13:20.360 --> 13:21.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, he sure did.
[13:22.840 --> 13:24.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, so that's a bit of fun there.
[13:24.500 --> 13:27.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I'm sure we're going to get a thousand pieces of email about that.
[13:27.280 --> 13:31.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is what happens every time the mass media prints something that's inaccurate about hackers.
[13:33.560 --> 13:34.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll learn more.
[13:34.620 --> 13:36.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll let people know when we learn more.
[13:38.060 --> 13:40.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we'll update people then, I guess.
[13:41.800 --> 13:43.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: We've gotten a lot of emails.
[13:43.520 --> 13:46.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: We also have a special guest we're going to be getting to in just a couple of minutes.
[13:46.780 --> 13:49.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we're going to be taking your phone calls.
[13:51.240 --> 14:04.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: So this person writes in imploring us, imploring us to talk about the issues involving charging Internet broadcasters, Internet streamers for content.
[14:04.300 --> 14:12.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not sure if people have been following this, but there's this organization, I guess it's an organization called CARP.
[14:13.320 --> 14:14.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're a committee, right?
[14:14.460 --> 14:15.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that what CARP is?
[14:16.960 --> 14:18.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're looking at me.
[14:18.280 --> 14:19.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you tell me about these things.
[14:19.400 --> 14:21.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: I figure you remember them.
[14:21.160 --> 14:22.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that a semi-religious thing?
[14:22.900 --> 14:25.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like something or other for the research of principles?
[14:26.140 --> 14:30.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I don't have what they... I feel like a fool here because I don't have what they actually stand for.
[14:30.380 --> 14:31.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Does that C stand for committee?
[14:31.800 --> 14:34.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's a committee, which tells me that they're, you know, a group of people.
[14:35.220 --> 14:37.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Something about recording hours of it down.
[14:37.800 --> 14:39.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: What does CARP have to say, regardless of who they are?
[14:39.740 --> 14:54.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Basically, they're trying to get anybody who streams over the Internet, and that includes us, that includes WBAI, to pay, not to pay a flat fee, to pay a particular amount per song they play per listener.
[14:55.160 --> 14:58.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the danger of that is, well, it's many-fold.
[14:58.440 --> 15:01.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: First of all, it's retroactive to the passing of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
[15:02.720 --> 15:05.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that means that... when did that pass?
[15:05.320 --> 15:06.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: 1999 or something?
[15:06.880 --> 15:11.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: That means that all of these radio stations that... first of all, it's impossible.
[15:11.540 --> 15:15.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: How are you going to be able to tell how many people were listening to a particular song, you know, three years ago?
[15:15.740 --> 15:16.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: How do you do that?
[15:16.940 --> 15:26.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: They expect people to... they expect stations now to keep track of how many people are listening, what it is they're listening to, and to pay a fee for every single song.
[15:26.360 --> 15:28.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's the most insane thing I've ever heard of in my life.
[15:28.780 --> 15:37.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, of course, it's going to affect WBAI, it's going to affect 2600, because we have all of our shows on the Internet.
[15:39.940 --> 15:40.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: What happens?
[15:40.540 --> 15:44.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Are we supposed to know when somebody listens to a show back in 1989 and hears a song?
[15:44.320 --> 15:46.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, we don't even know when the songs have been played or what songs they are.
[15:47.460 --> 15:47.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, people ask us...
[15:47.840 --> 15:49.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: What if they download it but only listen to half the show?
[15:50.220 --> 15:52.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: People ask us all the time, yeah, that's true, you don't know.
[15:52.840 --> 15:55.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or what if they're in the other room, they're not listening, you know?
[15:55.080 --> 16:04.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Does this apply to, you know, little Billy, who's, you know, doing his little Internet broadcast, you know, and he happens to play, like, you know, a commercial song?
[16:05.100 --> 16:05.740]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, of course.
[16:06.280 --> 16:07.240]  [SPEAKER_13]: It applies to him, too.
[16:07.380 --> 16:13.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, actually, the people who stream over the Internet, primarily, wind up paying more.
[16:13.700 --> 16:14.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: They charge them a higher amount.
[16:15.160 --> 16:16.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: The amounts are kind of tiny.
[16:16.780 --> 16:18.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think it's like, you know, a couple of cents per song.
[16:18.940 --> 16:19.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: It seems tiny.
[16:19.740 --> 16:27.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, you know, if you actually are doing some serious streaming and you have, you know, more than ten listeners, it adds up really fast.
[16:27.360 --> 16:28.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: It really adds up.
[16:28.680 --> 16:36.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what's going to happen is only the really big broadcasters will be left and everybody else will be out of luck.
[16:37.720 --> 16:43.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Unless they choose not to, you know, not to play by these rules at all one way or another, which I think is what we're going to do.
[16:43.500 --> 16:46.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: This money, I assume, it goes to the artists, right?
[16:46.460 --> 16:47.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, right.
[16:47.240 --> 16:48.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you assume wrong.
[16:48.020 --> 16:51.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: It goes to the recording industry of America, and that has nothing to do with artists.
[16:55.140 --> 16:56.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not a good thing.
[16:56.580 --> 17:08.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, there's a public hearing that, or a period of time for public hearing, and it's in here somewhere.
[17:08.420 --> 17:08.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry.
[17:08.840 --> 17:10.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: I thought other people had information as well.
[17:11.420 --> 17:13.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: If listeners can call us and help us with that.
[17:13.700 --> 17:17.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Otherwise, we will be happy to give more information on that.
[17:17.160 --> 17:18.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: You really don't know what carp is.
[17:19.060 --> 17:19.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I don't.
[17:19.700 --> 17:20.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: This has been all over the place.
[17:21.060 --> 17:21.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[17:22.460 --> 17:23.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nobody here knows what carp is.
[17:23.400 --> 17:23.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: You see...
[17:23.800 --> 17:25.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Is it a type of fish, maybe?
[17:26.380 --> 17:26.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[17:26.780 --> 17:28.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: You see, this is what we get, you know.
[17:30.280 --> 17:31.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have to get the word out about these things.
[17:32.060 --> 17:32.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's very important.
[17:32.660 --> 17:35.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Otherwise, there will be no more Internet broadcasting of any sort.
[17:37.040 --> 17:40.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's, you know, people ask us constantly about the music we play.
[17:41.060 --> 17:42.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, we're not playing any music right now.
[17:42.640 --> 17:43.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not because of this.
[17:43.360 --> 17:44.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: We just don't have any.
[17:45.800 --> 17:51.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: But if we listed all the music we played, it would make it that much easier for them to just send us a bill, you know, and say, oh, you played this on this date.
[17:51.940 --> 17:53.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: That means you got to pay us this amount of money.
[17:53.520 --> 17:54.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's ridiculous.
[17:54.340 --> 17:54.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's ridiculous.
[17:54.760 --> 18:04.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because radio stations already pay for the right to play commercial music, which, when you think of it, a lot of people wind up buying music because they hear it on the radio.
[18:04.800 --> 18:08.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: So it's something that benefits them regardless.
[18:09.020 --> 18:10.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: It just gets me really mad.
[18:11.060 --> 18:18.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we'll have more information on that, including what carp stands for, when the hearings are, and how public comments work, and that kind of thing.
[18:19.880 --> 18:21.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, what else?
[18:21.400 --> 18:29.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Senator Ernest Hollings and five other senators have introduced a bill that would prohibit the sale or distribution of any kind of device that would let consumers make copies.
[18:29.960 --> 18:46.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion Act, that's C-B-D-T-P-A, formerly known as S-S-S-C-A, would send people to prison for circumventing technology to distribute music, movies, and other copyrighted works.
[18:47.680 --> 18:56.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: The bill is a result of pressure from the RIAA and the Hollywood movie industry, but Silicon Valley is protesting the proposed new law.
[18:57.300 --> 19:09.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: According to Wired News, the C-B-D-T-P-A's definition of any hardware or software is so sweeping that it includes everything from processors, spreadsheets, and operating systems to unit utilities like CP.
[19:10.000 --> 19:14.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: The definition will cover just about anything that runs on your computer except maybe the clock.
[19:14.860 --> 19:17.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's according to Chapman University Law Professor Tom Bell.
[19:19.000 --> 19:22.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, uh, that's, uh, something that we're also keeping an eye on.
[19:23.660 --> 19:28.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, this person asked, I got a question for you regarding Off the Hook from April 2nd after the theme song.
[19:29.200 --> 19:30.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: You play some nice beats.
[19:30.420 --> 19:31.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: What's the name of that track?
[19:31.440 --> 19:33.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know, I don't know what it is, actually, to be honest.
[19:33.660 --> 19:34.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't remember what we played.
[19:34.700 --> 19:36.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you're going to get billed if you mention it.
[19:36.160 --> 19:37.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, and if I mention it, we're probably going to get billed.
[19:37.780 --> 19:39.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, you know, this is the kind of silliness that we're entering into.
[19:41.940 --> 19:47.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, maybe we should just play totally non-commercial music that doesn't get, have, you know, it's not even on CD anywhere.
[19:48.580 --> 19:50.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Although, they'll probably figure out a way to charge us for that as well.
[19:51.540 --> 19:53.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: I found a BBC World substitute for you.
[19:53.680 --> 19:58.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Take a look at Deutsche Welle, http, slash, slash, dw-world.de.
[19:58.440 --> 20:00.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: They offer world news from all over Europe and Asia.
[20:00.840 --> 20:09.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you have a C band, that's a big satellite dish, you can aim it at 103 degrees west, which is AMC1, formerly GE1.
[20:09.540 --> 20:12.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Switch to Transponder Channel 22, and you can receive it.
[20:13.160 --> 20:15.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's always unencrypted, so it's free to watch.
[20:15.680 --> 20:21.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can also get NASA TV for free on AMC2 at 85 degrees west and Transponder Channel 9.
[20:22.020 --> 20:24.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Loads of free channels on C band.
[20:24.540 --> 20:32.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Even though I live up near Toronto, I listen to the show every week, and I think it's awesome to hear someone's input on current events on the radio without being censored on what they say.
[20:32.660 --> 20:34.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Keep up the awesome work.
[20:34.760 --> 20:35.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: From Decode.
[20:35.900 --> 20:36.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Key word being.
[20:36.760 --> 20:37.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Awesome.
[20:37.620 --> 20:38.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Cool.
[20:38.920 --> 20:41.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Several theme songs from BBC World News.
[20:41.620 --> 20:44.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: We get more mail now about BBC World than anything.
[20:44.560 --> 20:51.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's like a lot of people want to hear this and see this, but unfortunately you can't in the United States unless you go to their website and watch streaming.
[20:51.500 --> 21:03.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: But this person found some theme songs online, which is www.tvhome.co.uk, slash, bbc, underscore, world, underscore, sounds, dot, s-h-t-m-l.
[21:04.880 --> 21:06.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that's pretty cool.
[21:06.960 --> 21:14.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: This person writes in, I got digital, AT&T digital cable in Chicago, and one of the channels it carries is called News World International.
[21:14.700 --> 21:19.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: This channel broadcasts translated newscasts that are taken from news stations and countries around the world.
[21:19.340 --> 21:24.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can find out more about this station on its website, www.nwitv.com.
[21:24.120 --> 21:26.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you're right, News World International is a great channel.
[21:27.060 --> 21:30.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's on DirecTV, as well as some cable systems.
[21:31.420 --> 21:35.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was part of the CBC, Canadian Broadcasting Company.
[21:35.240 --> 21:40.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's been recently, within the last couple of years, bought by the USA Network, of all people.
[21:40.540 --> 21:42.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: So far, they haven't messed it up too badly.
[21:42.480 --> 21:45.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm kind of worried about what they might do, but it's still a really good channel.
[21:45.760 --> 21:48.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: It still has foreign news and a lot of CBC content.
[21:49.240 --> 21:57.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: So hopefully, that will remain, because it's really the only channel that provides you with alternatives in this country that even a few people can get.
[21:59.360 --> 22:10.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: This person suggests, instead of waiting in the lines of the post office to mail a package that is already postmarked, we were talking about oversized packages last week, just walk up to the front of the line and hand it to the lady and say it's postmarked and ready to go.
[22:11.160 --> 22:12.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: They are happy enough to take it.
[22:12.980 --> 22:14.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: That bit of advice coming from Nick.
[22:14.840 --> 22:15.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you for that.
[22:18.680 --> 22:19.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[22:19.480 --> 22:21.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sometimes people get angry.
[22:21.540 --> 22:22.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: They think you're getting away with something.
[22:22.700 --> 22:28.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: But if you just hand it to them and say it's already postmarked, you know, then I guess you can get away with it.
[22:29.280 --> 22:31.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: This person is writing in about NASA's new policy.
[22:31.980 --> 22:37.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: NASA's new policy of keeping the timing of space shuttle launches secret is even sillier than you suggest.
[22:38.340 --> 22:39.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: It went up yesterday, by the way.
[22:39.600 --> 22:40.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: We can tell people that now.
[22:40.920 --> 22:41.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[22:41.760 --> 22:48.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Almost all flights nowadays, including the one scheduled to launch last Thursday, are ISS rendezvous flights.
[22:48.940 --> 22:50.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: What that means is it's rendezvousing with the space station.
[22:51.240 --> 22:58.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: In order to rendezvous with the ISS, the shuttle must launch within five minutes of the launch site's intersection with the orbital plane.
[22:58.460 --> 23:02.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Earth's rotation creates these intersections twice a day.
[23:02.680 --> 23:06.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: One with the plane passing from northwest to southeast and one from southwest to northeast.
[23:07.260 --> 23:13.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: The northwest to southeast window is never used as it would mean launching overpopulated areas, including Cuba.
[23:13.980 --> 23:30.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: All this means is that since the details of the ISS's orbit are publicly available from, say, www.celestrak.com, anyone with the appropriate knowledge or a suitable computer program can calculate the launch time within five minutes.
[23:31.540 --> 23:35.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Obviously, NASA thinks that terrorists aren't able to perform such calculations.
[23:35.880 --> 23:43.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: That letter coming from RiskTaker, and you are taking quite a risk in sending such sensitive information to us, but we feel people do have the right to know.
[23:43.640 --> 23:50.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, yeah, that's, I guess, if a terrorist can perform a calculation, he'll know what time the space shuttle will launch, but NBC won't.
[23:52.340 --> 23:52.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[23:54.640 --> 23:56.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: This person's writing in about Sprint PCS.
[23:56.500 --> 24:02.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hi, I use Sprint PCS and was charged 99 cents for a call to 800-555-1212.
[24:03.440 --> 24:06.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: I thought that it would be a free call, as it is when you use a landline.
[24:06.620 --> 24:08.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: A call to Sprint was a waste of time, no surprise.
[24:09.180 --> 24:11.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you know how they can charge for a supposedly free service?
[24:12.180 --> 24:17.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Also, to Sprint's credit, they let you bypass the voicemail message when leaving your message, which saves time and minutes.
[24:17.900 --> 24:18.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for your time.
[24:18.760 --> 24:19.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for the show.
[24:19.480 --> 24:20.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Signs, Sam.
[24:20.200 --> 24:33.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know, it's really an interesting thing about 800 information, because, yeah, you're right, 800 information is free, but when you use a cell phone, or, you know, any kind of wireless communications device, you have to pay this thing called airtime,
[24:33.900 --> 24:39.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: which, you know, it's just, it's a fact of life, you know, something that we've let ourselves get used to.
[24:39.860 --> 24:41.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: You don't pay wiretime, you pay airtime.
[24:42.000 --> 24:46.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: That means you pay, sometimes you pay for busy signals, sometimes you pay for incoming calls, it depends.
[24:47.460 --> 24:51.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, yeah, it would make sense that they would charge you to call 800 information.
[24:51.080 --> 24:58.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: What doesn't make sense, though, is that they charge you extra for calling 800 information as if you're calling information, which costs money.
[24:58.540 --> 25:02.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: You see, if you call regular information, the phone company charges you a certain amount of money.
[25:02.960 --> 25:05.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: They don't do that for 800 information for anybody.
[25:05.440 --> 25:15.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, somehow, the cellular companies get away with this, where they're able not only to charge you for, you know, a wireless airtime charge, but they charge you for a premium charge for calling information, even though it's free information.
[25:16.180 --> 25:17.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
[25:18.780 --> 25:25.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: A couple of years ago, they started charging for 800 numbers if you had an AT&T calling card.
[25:25.320 --> 25:30.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: And a number of co-cuts started charging for 800 numbers because they were being charged.
[25:30.500 --> 25:34.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: So actually, there are cases where you are charged, quote, land time, unquote.
[25:34.980 --> 25:44.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's... a payphone cannot charge you for an 800... I mean, I know there are cases where co-cuts were charging for 800 numbers, like $9.95 or some nonsense like that.
[25:45.000 --> 25:45.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's illegal.
[25:45.700 --> 25:46.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: They can't do that.
[25:46.340 --> 25:50.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: They can't charge you for a toll-free number from a public phone.
[25:50.340 --> 25:52.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I'll have to check out the co-cuts, I know.
[25:52.120 --> 25:54.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I mean, we'll certainly look into that.
[25:54.980 --> 26:05.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: But there is... what you might be thinking of is the charge that the FCC has, where they charge people who own 800 numbers if somebody calls them from a payphone.
[26:05.660 --> 26:09.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what some companies are doing is adding a surcharge, such as AT&T.
[26:09.460 --> 26:14.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you use a calling card from any payphone, they add a 35-cent-or-so surcharge.
[26:15.160 --> 26:18.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's... they're not asking for money at the payphone.
[26:18.280 --> 26:22.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, what they're doing is they're charging the person that you're calling extra because they called you from a payphone.
[26:23.060 --> 26:23.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: It doesn't make any sense.
[26:24.120 --> 26:29.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: The logic that the co-cut industry used was that the phone was being tied up and wasn't collecting revenue.
[26:30.860 --> 26:32.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I don't know why they don't charge for incoming calls.
[26:33.120 --> 26:34.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I guess they don't allow incoming calls.
[26:35.040 --> 26:38.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: But by that logic, this fee does not exist in Canada.
[26:38.920 --> 26:39.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, I know.
[26:39.480 --> 26:39.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know.
[26:39.620 --> 26:42.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: So you can run away to Canada to make all your 800 calls.
[26:42.440 --> 26:46.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Run up to Canada, watch BBC World and make phone calls.
[26:46.340 --> 26:49.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I think information is even free in some parts of Canada.
[26:49.240 --> 26:50.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, regular 411 information.
[26:51.000 --> 26:51.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: That I don't know.
[26:51.740 --> 26:51.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[26:52.280 --> 27:00.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: It used to be... I don't know if this is still true, but years ago, it used to be that you could make 100 calls to information from Canada for free.
[27:00.240 --> 27:08.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: And people would actually go up there or call somebody in Canada and get 100 calls and then call somebody else and get 100 more calls rather than pay 35 cents per call here.
[27:10.040 --> 27:10.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[27:10.560 --> 27:14.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: There are still Verizon payphones in New York City at which you can make a local call for 25 cents.
[27:15.260 --> 27:19.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Some of these are labeled 25 cents, some 50 cents, and at least one 35 cents.
[27:20.020 --> 27:23.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: At one phone in the Bronx, I recently spoke almost an hour for 25 cents.
[27:23.740 --> 27:25.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: There are others in Manhattan that I use today.
[27:26.740 --> 27:28.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that letter comes from Adam.
[27:28.380 --> 27:33.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: And yeah, there are lots of people out there using payphones now and only putting a quarter in.
[27:33.220 --> 27:34.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: And sometimes the quarter comes back afterwards.
[27:35.920 --> 27:38.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I guess, you know, it keeps people on the phone.
[27:38.260 --> 27:39.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: And some of these phones...
[27:39.540 --> 27:42.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Claude, you were having a conversation with the phone before.
[27:42.440 --> 27:43.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: You were yelling and screaming at it.
[27:43.380 --> 27:43.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: What was that all about?
[27:44.240 --> 27:53.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I wasn't yelling or screaming, but I wound up calling the station to get my bar head stamped so I could walk into the place.
[27:53.700 --> 27:56.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wait, you mean before we ran into you, you were still trying to get in the building then?
[27:56.960 --> 27:58.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've been trying all day to get in the building?
[28:00.360 --> 28:00.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[28:02.200 --> 28:02.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[28:03.280 --> 28:04.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was...
[28:04.740 --> 28:09.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: That call, I never completed because I saw you when I yelled out for you.
[28:10.740 --> 28:12.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Everybody turned around.
[28:12.520 --> 28:13.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: I figured...
[28:13.800 --> 28:15.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: All of Wall Street came to a stop.
[28:16.020 --> 28:16.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was unbelievable.
[28:18.320 --> 28:18.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[28:18.880 --> 28:22.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: In any event, yeah, there was another payphone there.
[28:23.140 --> 28:24.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: When I...
[28:24.100 --> 28:30.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Later on, after you went up and I did it, I paid a quarter for the phone call up to the station.
[28:30.300 --> 28:42.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: So now the cocots will truly be price competition for Verizon for, you know, like the official payphone folks in New York City.
[28:42.880 --> 28:45.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: So they might actually do interesting things with that.
[28:45.500 --> 28:47.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that's entirely possible.
[28:50.120 --> 28:50.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[28:50.640 --> 28:51.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, thank you for that update.
[28:52.020 --> 28:54.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I'm looking at other possible news stories here.
[28:54.280 --> 28:57.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: For instance, the United States is going to be issuing more secure passports.
[28:57.280 --> 28:57.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you seen this?
[28:58.180 --> 28:58.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've heard about it.
[28:58.940 --> 29:05.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, the State Department last Tuesday unveiled a new state-of-the-art passport designed to prevent misuse of American passports by terrorists.
[29:06.800 --> 29:09.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Effective April 8th, which was yesterday.
[29:10.100 --> 29:11.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: All new U.S.
[29:11.200 --> 29:12.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: passports will have digital photos.
[29:12.660 --> 29:15.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: So if anybody got a passport yesterday or today, please let us know.
[29:15.540 --> 29:16.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: We want to see them.
[29:16.860 --> 29:25.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: With the holder's image digitized into the passport, the documents will also have other enhanced security features that they're not telling anybody about.
[29:25.500 --> 29:28.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, yeah, we're going to find out.
[29:29.460 --> 29:34.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Features in the passports have been designed to make this one of the most secure travel documents in the world.
[29:34.980 --> 29:39.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're all aware that since September 11th, the security of travel documents has become even more important.
[29:40.500 --> 29:46.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Getting these more secure passports into circulation will help minimize the misuse of American passports by criminals, terrorists, and others.
[29:47.240 --> 29:52.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know what it's going to do about someone getting on a plane and hijacking it and, you know, blasting it into buildings.
[29:52.680 --> 29:54.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: You don't really need a passport for that.
[29:54.260 --> 29:56.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: You just need a, you know, kind of a sick mind.
[29:57.600 --> 30:02.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: American citizens overseas are encouraged to apply early for renewal of expiring passports.
[30:02.960 --> 30:07.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: All passport agencies in the United States already have the technology to issue the new passport.
[30:08.400 --> 30:14.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: State Department officials have told CNN the new security features eventually will be used in visas for travel to the United States.
[30:15.100 --> 30:21.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: These officials said a newly enhanced, more fraud-resistant document called a Lincoln visa will be rolled out in the coming weeks.
[30:23.040 --> 30:25.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Lincoln, Lincoln visa, how about that?
[30:26.140 --> 30:26.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[30:27.020 --> 30:33.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Speaking of secure ID, I came across a news story, but unfortunately I didn't pay that much attention.
[30:33.260 --> 30:37.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: I was wondering if someone in New Jersey, hopefully Middlesex County, could help us out on this.
[30:38.320 --> 30:47.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Apparently in New Jersey you can get county ID if you have a birth certificate from absolutely anywhere and a piece of mail that proves that you live in the county.
[30:47.380 --> 30:58.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: And in Middlesex County, which covers New Brunswick, they're up in arms because it seems to be, let's say, South American day laborers that seem to be getting this.
[31:00.300 --> 31:02.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: So you can read anything you want into that.
[31:02.720 --> 31:08.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: So they're up in arms and want to tighten up this security breach.
[31:08.880 --> 31:09.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Who's up in arms?
[31:10.740 --> 31:12.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: The people who actually issue the ID.
[31:12.980 --> 31:14.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: But of course, you know, they're constrained by the laws.
[31:14.720 --> 31:21.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you have a birth certificate from anywhere and proof some piece of mail mailed to you inside the county, they give you a county photo ID.
[31:22.280 --> 31:23.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is only true in Middlesex?
[31:23.880 --> 31:25.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if it's only true in Middlesex.
[31:25.440 --> 31:28.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: It should be true, I would guess, in every county in New Jersey.
[31:29.480 --> 31:33.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: But I'm looking for somebody who has this from New Jersey to call up and tell us about it.
[31:34.240 --> 31:34.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[31:35.940 --> 31:38.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[31:38.060 --> 31:39.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll be taking phone calls in just a little bit.
[31:40.080 --> 31:41.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: A couple of the news items.
[31:41.180 --> 31:45.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: National Guard troops patrolling airports will be replaced by uniformed police officers.
[31:45.340 --> 31:49.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's according to the new Transportation Security Administration government.
[31:49.520 --> 31:51.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Isn't that nice how they call it a government?
[31:51.040 --> 31:59.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: In a security directive to airports, the agency said the police officers will be stationed at airport screening stations in place of the guard.
[31:59.500 --> 32:04.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Local police will be at the checkpoints until the security agency hires its own law enforcement officials.
[32:05.220 --> 32:08.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: The federal government will reimburse the airports for the officers' salaries.
[32:10.100 --> 32:15.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Spokesman Paul Turk said there was no timetable for replacing all the local police with federal law enforcement officers.
[32:15.640 --> 32:20.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: He said the security agency would bring its own officers on an airport-by-airport basis.
[32:22.200 --> 32:25.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, basically, this will happen by April 30th.
[32:25.800 --> 32:32.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, National Guard, which has been a fixture at airports since shortly after September 11th, will be withdrawn.
[32:32.480 --> 32:33.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Should be out by the end of May.
[32:36.140 --> 32:36.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Interesting.
[32:37.500 --> 32:38.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't see them at the bridge today.
[32:39.260 --> 32:40.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bridge crossings, tunnel crossings.
[32:41.320 --> 32:41.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: No.
[32:41.820 --> 32:41.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[32:42.180 --> 32:45.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're starting to withdraw back into the shadows.
[32:46.500 --> 32:47.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: How about this?
[32:47.500 --> 32:47.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: You heard this one.
[32:48.020 --> 32:54.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Porn movies and programs in Hebrew are being broadcast by Israeli troops who have taken over three Palestinian television stations of Ramallah.
[32:55.300 --> 32:58.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's according to our residents of the besieged West Bank town.
[32:59.220 --> 33:01.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: And this comes from a French news agency.
[33:02.180 --> 33:07.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: The offices of three local television and radio stations were occupied by soldiers last week.
[33:07.760 --> 33:14.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: A few hours after tanks and hundreds of troops stormed the town in Israel's biggest defensive against the Palestinian Authority and its leader, Yasser Arafat.
[33:14.980 --> 33:25.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: The soldiers started broadcasting the porn clips considered extremely offensive by most Muslims intermittently from the Al-Watan, Amwaj, and Al-Shirak channels.
[33:26.400 --> 33:30.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: The pornographic movies started on Al-Watan television at around 3.30 p.m.
[33:30.360 --> 33:34.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: One 34-year-old Palestinian mother named Rima told AFP.
[33:34.900 --> 33:36.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have six children at home.
[33:36.360 --> 33:39.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: They have nowhere to go with what is going on here and can't even watch TV, she said angrily.
[33:39.880 --> 33:40.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not healthy, really.
[33:40.900 --> 33:42.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think the Israelis want to mess with our young men's heads.
[33:43.680 --> 33:48.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anita, a 52-year-old mother of three children, complained about the deliberate psychological damage caused by these broadcasts.
[33:48.860 --> 33:49.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: I am furious.
[33:49.600 --> 33:52.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: These are the people who are shooting at us that also play this disgusting trick on us.
[33:52.860 --> 33:56.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: We are desperate for news and constantly flipping channels and get these terrible pictures instead.
[33:57.280 --> 34:02.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Adding, the videos of the Intifada were also shown backwards with ideal terrorism written in red across the screen.
[34:03.980 --> 34:09.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Luckily, there was no electricity in half of Ramallah, she said, from her house in East Jerusalem, where the channels are also available.
[34:10.700 --> 34:19.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: A fourth local station, whose premises were not seized by the army, ran a written message across its screen letting people know it was the Israelis who were behind the graphic scenes.
[34:20.220 --> 34:28.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anything currently shown on Al-Watan and other local TV channels has nothing to do with Palestinian programs but is being broadcast by the Israeli occupation forces.
[34:28.100 --> 34:29.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: We urge parents to take precautions.
[34:30.520 --> 34:35.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Israeli military denied it had anything to do with the pornographic programming and instead blamed the Palestinian leaders.
[34:36.800 --> 34:42.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sure Yasser Arafat is directing it from the corner of the room that he's holed up in right now.
[34:43.100 --> 34:45.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Israeli security... yeah, Debbie Does Dallas next, guys.
[34:46.060 --> 34:46.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[34:47.380 --> 34:51.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Israeli military denied it had anything to do with the pornographic programming.
[34:51.680 --> 34:52.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah, I just read that.
[34:52.840 --> 34:57.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: The Israeli security forces have no interest in putting pornographic and racist movies on Palestinian television.
[34:58.120 --> 34:59.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're just interested in shooting people.
[35:01.320 --> 35:02.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I added that.
[35:02.340 --> 35:09.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: But the only reason we are in these buildings and in this city is to fight against terrorists and their infrastructure after giving the Palestinians various chances to it themselves.
[35:10.760 --> 35:13.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: This guy really knows how to lay out a sentence, doesn't he?
[35:14.200 --> 35:19.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat is willing to go low in order to make himself look better in this uncomfortable situation, he said, which really...
[35:19.880 --> 35:22.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know how that has anything to do with pornographic images on TV.
[35:23.840 --> 35:30.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Emmanuel Nashon said any such broadcasting was shameful, but he said he was not aware of the Israeli army's involvement.
[35:30.620 --> 35:37.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: I cannot believe that Israeli soldiers would engage in such despicable behavior, especially when there's so much other despicable behavior to engage in.
[35:39.720 --> 35:41.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I'll say this, though.
[35:41.420 --> 35:50.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: If my town was being taken over and shot up and besieged, I don't think I'd be interested in watching television.
[35:50.460 --> 35:53.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I'd be interested in other activities, but not television so much.
[35:55.400 --> 35:55.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[35:56.000 --> 35:57.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll try to keep people updated on that.
[35:57.720 --> 36:03.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: In this besieged city, though, there's something horrible happening as well, which I only found out about just very recently.
[36:04.640 --> 36:05.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know if you guys know about this.
[36:05.960 --> 36:08.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: New York City residents will need to get used to punching extra digits.
[36:09.060 --> 36:12.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: The so-called 10-digit dialing rule is taking effect.
[36:12.800 --> 36:14.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: I thought we were exempt from this.
[36:14.240 --> 36:18.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: I thought we somehow were able to tell people New York is different than the rest of the country.
[36:19.080 --> 36:23.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: We don't want to have to do this stupidity where we have to dial the area code even if we're in the area code.
[36:23.680 --> 36:25.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: But apparently that's not the case.
[36:26.040 --> 36:27.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Apparently we're going to have to do that anyway.
[36:27.640 --> 36:29.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know when the hearings were or anything.
[36:29.440 --> 36:31.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's just all of a sudden this is the law.
[36:32.580 --> 36:35.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: As of next February, the law becomes mandatory.
[36:35.360 --> 36:36.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can do it now.
[36:36.280 --> 36:37.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, you could do it for a long time.
[36:38.540 --> 36:41.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Telephone companies are already reprogramming their switches, though.
[36:42.220 --> 36:52.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: As of February 1st, you'll have to dial the 212-917-646-347 or 718 area codes for every phone call even if you're inside that area code.
[36:53.080 --> 36:55.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, of course, you have to dial 1 in front of that just to waste even more time.
[36:56.320 --> 36:56.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know.
[36:57.380 --> 37:00.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: I want to say rise up in the streets and get angry about this and do something.
[37:00.800 --> 37:03.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I don't know who to rise up against and who to be angry at.
[37:05.400 --> 37:07.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Seems like the decision has been made for us.
[37:08.120 --> 37:10.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's unfortunate, but true.
[37:12.060 --> 37:16.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, we are going to, I guess, go to the phones, right?
[37:17.040 --> 37:18.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, we have to do that.
[37:18.360 --> 37:19.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wait, didn't you have a special guest?
[37:19.640 --> 37:19.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[37:20.560 --> 37:21.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: It involves going to the phones.
[37:21.940 --> 37:22.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, okay.
[37:22.740 --> 37:23.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: I tricked you there, didn't I?
[37:24.020 --> 37:26.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we're calling the special guest right now.
[37:27.000 --> 37:29.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, I have to get the phone number.
[37:31.600 --> 37:33.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: And also enter our secret code.
[37:35.980 --> 37:36.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do we have a line?
[37:37.620 --> 37:39.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, that's the prompt for the secret code.
[37:39.580 --> 37:41.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, you know, I don't like the sound of that static.
[37:41.980 --> 37:43.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I don't like that at all.
[37:43.040 --> 37:44.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I'm going to hang up on this.
[37:45.720 --> 37:47.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: What happens if you don't enter a secret code?
[37:47.280 --> 37:48.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: I guess it gives you a...
[37:48.140 --> 37:48.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're sorry.
[37:50.420 --> 37:53.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have not dialed enough digits for your call to be completed.
[37:53.720 --> 37:55.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Please hang up and try your call again.
[37:57.120 --> 38:00.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Seven, two, three, four.
[38:02.620 --> 38:03.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[38:03.460 --> 38:04.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's interesting.
[38:04.680 --> 38:05.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: She sounded pretty sorry.
[38:06.120 --> 38:07.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: But let's see if we can get...
[38:08.520 --> 38:09.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: It doesn't sound too bad.
[38:10.940 --> 38:15.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: See, it's a real experience making phone calls on this phone system.
[38:16.960 --> 38:17.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[38:18.340 --> 38:20.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hopefully there won't be any static on this one.
[38:24.300 --> 38:25.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: That sounds much better.
[38:25.480 --> 38:25.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[38:32.120 --> 38:32.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello?
[38:32.860 --> 38:34.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hi, it's Emmanuel Goldstein calling.
[38:34.940 --> 38:35.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, hi, Emmanuel.
[38:36.240 --> 38:36.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: How are you doing?
[38:36.980 --> 38:37.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm doing okay.
[38:37.700 --> 38:39.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're our special guest for today.
[38:40.080 --> 38:40.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I am?
[38:40.860 --> 38:41.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, you are.
[38:41.720 --> 38:42.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: You certainly are.
[38:42.580 --> 38:50.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: And for the benefit of our listeners, who have no idea who you are yet, this is Reba Vartanian, Kevin Mitnick's grandmother, who joins us from Las Vegas.
[38:50.060 --> 39:09.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the reason we're speaking with her tonight is because she attended the screening yesterday of Freedom Down Time in Las Vegas, which was part of the New York International Independent Video and Film Festival, which for some reason is showing in Las Vegas.
[39:10.420 --> 39:12.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: So you actually attended the screen.
[39:12.820 --> 39:14.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't know you were actually going to see the screening yourself.
[39:14.780 --> 39:21.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was absolutely delighted when I was told that it was going to be shown at 4 o'clock at the Palms Hotel.
[39:22.880 --> 39:33.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, Kevin had called me several days before and said something was going to be shown at the Palms, and he would call me back in two days and give me all the details.
[39:33.460 --> 39:35.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I'm mad at him.
[39:35.200 --> 39:35.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: He didn't.
[39:35.980 --> 39:39.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I called the Palms Hotel, and I found out all about it.
[39:39.820 --> 39:42.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I had such a wonderful time.
[39:42.620 --> 39:44.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: I took a friend of mine with.
[39:44.320 --> 39:46.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: The theater was almost full.
[39:48.560 --> 39:50.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: People from all ages.
[39:50.980 --> 39:52.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it was a great film.
[39:53.500 --> 39:56.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: It took me back to times when I was crying all the time.
[39:57.000 --> 40:05.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I cried a lot yesterday, too, but I also had a lot of laughter with it, too, because that's in the past, and things are going good now.
[40:05.580 --> 40:05.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[40:06.000 --> 40:15.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I have to say, Reba, you being in the film yourself, you've been a pillar of strength not only to Kevin but to a lot of us that were following the case for so many years.
[40:16.340 --> 40:25.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: You always basically knew what was going on and said things as they were and provided so much comfort in times of despair.
[40:26.660 --> 40:29.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: You say the crowd was...
[40:29.560 --> 40:30.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did they get the film?
[40:30.980 --> 40:32.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did they understand what was going on?
[40:32.200 --> 40:33.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: They were very, very receptive.
[40:33.760 --> 40:38.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: And people didn't rush to get out, which surprised me.
[40:38.280 --> 40:44.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: So many people still remained a little bit in their seats, and then they start leaving slowly afterward.
[40:44.840 --> 40:56.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: But throughout the film, there were a little bit of laughter, a lot of sighs, and, you know, as though they were seeing something, that they were hearing something they couldn't believe.
[40:56.880 --> 41:05.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it was received wonderfully, and I didn't notice anybody leaving the theater before it was completely over.
[41:05.840 --> 41:07.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, that's certainly good news.
[41:08.260 --> 41:08.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: That was.
[41:09.600 --> 41:13.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was enjoyable, even if people didn't know who Kevin Mitnick was.
[41:13.600 --> 41:23.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: For instance, the woman I took with me, she knew very little of Kevin's plight, whatever we went through at that time, because we're just sort of new friends.
[41:23.880 --> 41:26.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: But she got a different insight.
[41:26.300 --> 41:28.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: She has more respect.
[41:31.000 --> 41:33.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: And she just understands.
[41:33.820 --> 41:38.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: And whenever I bring up something, she understands what I'm talking about.
[41:40.680 --> 41:41.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I don't know.
[41:42.120 --> 41:48.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's one thing towards the end, when you were interviewing someone, I don't know how you kept your cool.
[41:49.340 --> 41:55.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because I just wanted to stand up and yell and holler and say things that were in my heart.
[41:55.340 --> 41:57.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know who I'm talking about.
[41:57.040 --> 42:09.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because I sincerely feel if it wasn't for this person having such a big part in Kevin's story, his life would have been entirely different.
[42:09.820 --> 42:30.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: If he hadn't been publicizing things that were not true, that never happened, and publicizing them on the front page of a well-known, well, the Times, the New York Times, if he wasn't stating things that were not true, and stating them as fact, he wasn't saying,
[42:30.760 --> 42:33.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think, or it was said to me, or it was alleged.
[42:34.160 --> 42:35.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: He was saying as though it was fact.
[42:35.760 --> 42:37.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's why the world...
[42:37.580 --> 42:40.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: So many people did think Kevin was a Darth Vader type.
[42:41.240 --> 42:43.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, I have very...
[42:44.660 --> 42:45.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[42:45.220 --> 42:47.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: ...feel feelings towards him because of that.
[42:47.220 --> 42:48.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: It ruined our lives.
[42:48.320 --> 42:48.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[42:48.760 --> 42:50.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, it certainly...
[42:50.100 --> 42:54.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: It certainly did not help the situation having a...
[42:54.440 --> 42:55.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Kevin's life, no.
[42:55.520 --> 43:01.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: ...having a newspaper like that spreading misinformation and not really attempting to...
[43:01.020 --> 43:06.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think one of the things we did in the film was show how there was no attempt made to air any of the other stories.
[43:06.980 --> 43:09.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think one of the things said was, well, where's the story?
[43:09.820 --> 43:10.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: What story is there?
[43:10.600 --> 43:15.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: At the end of the film, that's one of the things that we had the New York Times reporter saying is, well, where's the story?
[43:15.900 --> 43:18.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And of course, you had just seen the story for the last two hours.
[43:19.080 --> 43:29.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: I should point out that for those of you who have not seen the film Freedom Downtime, which is a documentary that we have been working on since 1998, we are going to be releasing it on video probably within the next week.
[43:29.680 --> 43:35.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: So keep watching the website, www.2600.com, and there will be a news item on there.
[43:35.840 --> 43:38.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: And of course, people will have the opportunity to get their own copies.
[43:39.500 --> 43:43.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: It has shown in festivals around the country, the most recent one being Las Vegas.
[43:44.140 --> 43:45.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: And there will be other ones as well.
[43:45.840 --> 43:48.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll let people know where those are being seen.
[43:49.020 --> 43:51.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, you say that there were a lot of people.
[43:51.360 --> 43:53.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Was the theater full or close to full?
[43:53.300 --> 43:55.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if it was actually full.
[43:55.400 --> 44:01.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: It isn't a really large theater because they have quite a large complex there.
[44:01.700 --> 44:05.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: So all the seating towards the back was full.
[44:06.480 --> 44:12.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Down real close, I couldn't tell if way up close by the...
[44:12.140 --> 44:16.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, those seats are not desirable, but way up close by the screen.
[44:16.560 --> 44:18.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know if that was full.
[44:18.720 --> 44:23.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: But people were talking about it, even as they sat in their seats.
[44:23.780 --> 44:34.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: There was a family or a couple in back of me that they must have known more than a lot of people because they were constantly making comments.
[44:34.460 --> 44:38.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I turned my head to try to catch their faces.
[44:39.120 --> 44:41.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I couldn't tell exactly which couple it was.
[44:41.600 --> 44:43.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did you try to tell them to shut up or something?
[44:43.460 --> 44:44.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no, no.
[44:44.180 --> 44:49.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I wanted to hear what they were saying because everything was so positive.
[44:49.220 --> 44:58.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: And when I left the theater, I went to where there was some publications about future events and such.
[44:58.260 --> 44:59.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I was standing there.
[44:59.680 --> 45:03.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I wanted to ask some questions of the girl that was passing them out.
[45:03.280 --> 45:05.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: And there were two young women there.
[45:05.320 --> 45:10.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'd say one was early 20s, the other maybe a few years older.
[45:11.540 --> 45:14.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: They were smiling broadly at me.
[45:14.500 --> 45:17.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I did say something to them.
[45:17.340 --> 45:21.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I asked them, did you know anything about Kevin Mitnick?
[45:21.140 --> 45:22.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: They didn't know too much before.
[45:22.780 --> 45:28.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: But now they're so enthused, they want to know more about it.
[45:28.560 --> 45:30.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they even took my picture.
[45:30.700 --> 45:33.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: I was a celebrity because I was Kevin's grandmother.
[45:33.740 --> 45:36.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: But one of the women also makes...
[45:37.600 --> 45:42.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: She's an independent filmmaker, or perhaps she wants to be.
[45:43.340 --> 45:49.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, the couple remarks I heard was something about people...
[45:50.280 --> 45:55.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Even my friend was saying that now we treasure more.
[45:55.720 --> 45:57.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: We see it could happen to us.
[45:57.800 --> 46:09.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: We value our rights and our freedoms and see how very easily it can be taken away from you and me and the guy next door, not just the bank robbers and the killers.
[46:11.020 --> 46:17.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know, there were some very positive half sentences that I caught.
[46:18.340 --> 46:19.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's great.
[46:19.140 --> 46:20.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: It sounds like it touched people.
[46:21.100 --> 46:22.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: It might have worked some people up.
[46:22.560 --> 46:22.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think so.
[46:23.060 --> 46:26.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it was done so naturally, Emmanuel.
[46:27.420 --> 46:29.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: I felt like I was right there with you.
[46:29.680 --> 46:37.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: And when I saw Kevin at that tiny little window at the MDC, and I remember those days.
[46:37.780 --> 46:41.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, I remember them very, very much.
[46:41.360 --> 46:49.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if it wasn't for 2,600 and everyone in your crew that worked so hard, I would have felt so much more alone.
[46:49.040 --> 46:53.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just put my head under the covers and try to sleep away that time.
[46:53.940 --> 46:59.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: But you and your crew and other people like you did give us a lot of support.
[46:59.380 --> 47:01.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: And God, I bless you for it.
[47:01.720 --> 47:09.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, Reba, I want to thank you very much for being there for us because you certainly told the story in ways that so many people could identify with.
[47:09.640 --> 47:12.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think you're one of the highlights of the film.
[47:12.520 --> 47:12.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, thank you.
[47:12.820 --> 47:22.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: The periods where you talk to us and tell us stories about Kevin and just the things that they were doing to him in prison and just what it was like having this situation in your life.
[47:22.960 --> 47:25.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I really find it very inspirational.
[47:26.140 --> 47:27.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think he reached a lot of people as well.
[47:27.880 --> 47:30.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Emmanuel, I know you were right there with us.
[47:30.560 --> 47:36.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: But, of course, there's so many things that you couldn't know because you couldn't go into the jail to talk to Kevin.
[47:37.740 --> 47:47.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, of course, I knew every day the absolute agonies, the heartbreak, people feeding off of Kevin, misleading him.
[47:47.880 --> 47:48.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[47:48.220 --> 47:50.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just trying to get, well, whatever.
[47:50.660 --> 47:54.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was very frustrating in that time and I think it was on his 35th birthday where we were across the street.
[47:55.140 --> 48:02.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: We couldn't get into the prison so we were across the street at the gas station waving at the window and we didn't know what window to wave at until we heard an actual tapping.
[48:03.300 --> 48:04.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Isn't that incredible?
[48:04.060 --> 48:09.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: He was tapping on the glass and we were able to find it somehow with a zoom lens and figure out which glass he was tapping on.
[48:09.980 --> 48:14.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's a very heavy traffic street.
[48:14.640 --> 48:14.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[48:15.020 --> 48:19.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: And there were other people in the same gas station waving at other prisoners too but they didn't know who they were waving at.
[48:19.660 --> 48:20.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: They didn't do the tapping thing.
[48:20.720 --> 48:20.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[48:21.340 --> 48:22.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, and they didn't have cameras either.
[48:23.160 --> 48:29.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I hope that you'll be able to do a documentary of Kevin after he got out.
[48:29.300 --> 48:29.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[48:29.560 --> 48:31.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I'm sure there'll be a lot of interesting stories to tell.
[48:31.700 --> 48:33.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, he has a lot of stories to tell.
[48:33.340 --> 48:41.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: And hopefully he won't be harassed anytime between now and next January when his probation ends and he can actually really be free for the first time since 1988, I think.
[48:41.280 --> 48:41.280]  Right.
[48:41.280 --> 48:43.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: I keep my bumper sticker on all the time.
[48:43.440 --> 48:45.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: People say, well, Kevin's out of jail.
[48:45.680 --> 48:47.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: I said, he's not free yet.
[48:47.780 --> 48:48.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: He's still on probation.
[48:49.300 --> 48:49.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[48:49.720 --> 48:50.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Keep Kevin free.
[48:51.320 --> 48:51.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[48:52.000 --> 48:53.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Reba, thank you so much.
[48:53.120 --> 48:53.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're harassing him.
[48:54.000 --> 48:54.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, dear.
[48:54.760 --> 48:55.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was nice talking to you.
[48:56.100 --> 48:57.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you so much, Emmanuel.
[48:57.920 --> 48:58.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[48:58.100 --> 48:58.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll see you soon.
[48:58.900 --> 48:59.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bye.
[48:59.500 --> 48:59.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Take care.
[49:00.300 --> 49:06.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Reba Vartani and Kevin Mitnick's grandmother joining us on the phone here talking about the screening of Freedom Downtime in Las Vegas.
[49:06.880 --> 49:09.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, I didn't think that was going to be that well attended.
[49:09.700 --> 49:14.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I knew that Las Vegas 2600 people would show up, but it sounds like a lot more people showed up as well, which is great.
[49:14.340 --> 49:17.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I'm so happy that she got to see it in her big screen as well.
[49:18.260 --> 49:23.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you'll be able to see it too when we release it, which hopefully will be within the next week or so.
[49:24.000 --> 49:24.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Stay tuned.
[49:24.340 --> 49:25.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's take some phone calls.
[49:25.480 --> 49:27.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-209-2900.
[49:27.960 --> 49:30.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's pick a number from 1 to 12.
[49:30.800 --> 49:31.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Three.
[49:31.900 --> 49:32.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[49:32.420 --> 49:34.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Three's the only one that's not lit, and you knew that, didn't you?
[49:35.100 --> 49:35.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I didn't.
[49:36.040 --> 49:36.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[49:36.500 --> 49:36.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[49:36.860 --> 49:37.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you don't get to pick again.
[49:37.800 --> 49:38.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm going to go for seven.
[49:38.980 --> 49:39.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: How about that?
[49:39.440 --> 49:39.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[49:39.720 --> 49:40.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[49:41.260 --> 49:41.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hi there.
[49:42.700 --> 49:43.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let me switch your phone.
[49:43.580 --> 49:44.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: What are you calling from a vacuum cleaner?
[49:45.380 --> 49:47.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I have cheap radio shack.
[49:47.620 --> 49:48.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: You turn this off.
[49:49.140 --> 49:50.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's actually a phone?
[49:50.640 --> 49:55.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, it's a cheap radio shack thing you put on the phone that you can...
[49:55.300 --> 49:56.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: What, it used to annoy people?
[49:56.940 --> 49:58.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: One of these voice things.
[49:58.780 --> 49:59.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[49:59.660 --> 50:01.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: A phone thing, but it's real cheap.
[50:01.320 --> 50:02.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: It changes your voice, does it?
[50:02.780 --> 50:05.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it gets radio interference from the radio station three blocks away.
[50:06.460 --> 50:07.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that's what it does?
[50:07.780 --> 50:07.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[50:08.180 --> 50:09.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, let me ask a question about BBC.
[50:09.860 --> 50:10.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: I guess it's a market.
[50:10.560 --> 50:10.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[50:11.180 --> 50:14.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: The BBC, with its shortwave radio, is not available here anymore.
[50:15.420 --> 50:16.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's true.
[50:16.320 --> 50:18.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: But you can pick up other transmissions.
[50:18.620 --> 50:20.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: The question is, why?
[50:20.860 --> 50:26.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: The reason they gave was because they felt more people were listening on the Internet and more people...
[50:26.520 --> 50:27.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry, Club?
[50:27.440 --> 50:29.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Not enough English speakers in North America.
[50:29.900 --> 50:31.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not enough English speakers.
[50:31.240 --> 50:32.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think that's the reason.
[50:32.720 --> 50:33.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Only 280 million.
[50:33.760 --> 50:39.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, the reason is that they thought more people were listening over the Internet and via FM radio at night.
[50:40.800 --> 50:42.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let me ask a question here.
[50:43.080 --> 50:49.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: I went to a speech the other night by Gregory Palast.
[50:49.500 --> 50:50.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you know who he is?
[50:51.160 --> 50:51.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Tell us.
[50:51.960 --> 50:58.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's that reporter who cannot get anything published in the United States so he works for the BBC and for the Observer, I think it is.
[50:59.060 --> 51:02.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think I heard an interview with him on Radio Nation.
[51:02.340 --> 51:10.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: He breaks all this stuff about Bush and the Carlisle and all this stuff and the Bin Laden's working with Bush and a whole bunch of stuff.
[51:10.200 --> 51:11.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: He's from California, right?
[51:11.860 --> 51:14.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but he's living in London because he can't do anything over here.
[51:14.340 --> 51:18.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: He's got a new book out, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy.
[51:18.780 --> 51:19.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, he's down the hall, too.
[51:20.440 --> 51:21.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, we know him very well.
[51:22.680 --> 51:30.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's on the BBC and I've never heard him on the radio or anything, but is what's on the radio the same as what's on the FM here at nighttime on WNYE?
[51:30.940 --> 51:31.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's different.
[51:32.060 --> 51:32.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's different.
[51:32.760 --> 51:34.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not sure exactly how it's different.
[51:34.760 --> 51:39.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Could it be that it's a deal to not let him be heard in the United States?
[51:39.940 --> 51:47.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I don't think they've made an entire network just to keep this one guy off, but I do think that there are certain ways that they program to different parts of the world.
[51:47.760 --> 51:54.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: The thing is, though, you can hear the BBC that's broadcast to other parts of the world that, you know, obviously they're not broadcasting to North America anymore.
[51:54.260 --> 52:08.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: They have a transmitter in Moncton, New Brunswick, which transmits to most parts of the world and you can pick up not only broadcast to South America and I think Europe as well, although I don't know why they broadcast out of Canada to get to Europe when they're from Europe,
[52:09.760 --> 52:11.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: but you can also hear things in different languages.
[52:11.800 --> 52:15.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: So it's possible that you can hear things on shortwave.
[52:15.320 --> 52:17.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's the beauty of shortwave, that you can hear different things.
[52:17.900 --> 52:18.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay?
[52:18.260 --> 52:19.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you know the frequency you can hear it in English?
[52:19.660 --> 52:34.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know 5975 is one of the frequencies, but if you pick up the radio database international, the Passport to World Band Radio actually is the book, look that up on the net and you'll be able to order that and I'll tell you all the frequencies of virtually every broadcaster.
[52:35.240 --> 52:35.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for that call.
[52:36.100 --> 52:37.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's take another phone call.
[52:37.520 --> 52:37.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Up here.
[52:37.760 --> 52:38.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[52:38.140 --> 52:38.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[52:40.100 --> 52:40.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Speak up.
[52:41.000 --> 52:41.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello?
[52:41.600 --> 52:42.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, go ahead.
[52:42.060 --> 53:02.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, I want to talk about, what I want to talk about is ask you what is inconsistent with the peace process when you want to watch some videos and also I guess they don't feel very, they don't look very much after whining to international forums.
[53:02.520 --> 53:05.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: They don't look or feel very much like Saladin.
[53:06.140 --> 53:07.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who is they?
[53:09.400 --> 53:20.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think you are aware the French is the Frenchman's favorite who they seem to have so much affection for.
[53:20.500 --> 53:22.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: But they don't look like Saladin very much.
[53:23.100 --> 53:26.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, listen, sir, I'll tell you, if I want to watch a David Lynch film, I can go home and do it.
[53:26.560 --> 53:27.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't need to listen to it on the radio.
[53:28.340 --> 53:28.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[53:28.820 --> 53:29.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[53:30.320 --> 53:32.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, you know, nobody in this country talks anymore.
[53:33.420 --> 53:34.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you're one of them.
[53:34.560 --> 53:34.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[53:35.160 --> 53:35.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[53:35.840 --> 53:36.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, it's too easy.
[53:36.640 --> 53:36.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry.
[53:37.420 --> 53:38.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[53:38.980 --> 53:40.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, this is Slipmoak.
[53:41.280 --> 53:41.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Who?
[53:42.520 --> 53:42.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Slipmoak.
[53:43.060 --> 53:43.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, okay.
[53:44.280 --> 53:49.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I just want to ask, I'm going to go to H2K and I wanted to know what does it take to get a table?
[53:49.740 --> 53:51.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: I had a couple T-shirt ideas and stuff.
[53:51.900 --> 53:52.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Ah, good question.
[53:52.600 --> 53:54.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, you're going to H2K too unless you're traveling in time.
[53:54.980 --> 53:55.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: H2K too, that's right.
[53:56.260 --> 53:58.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: In July, that's our conference taking place here in New York City.
[53:59.220 --> 54:03.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're interested in being one of the people that has interesting T-shirts and things like that.
[54:03.820 --> 54:07.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, basically, we have a whole lot of space.
[54:07.260 --> 54:08.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: We have 35,000 square feet.
[54:08.580 --> 54:11.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's the size of an entire sports authority store because that's what it used to be.
[54:11.960 --> 54:15.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we're going to have all kinds of displays.
[54:15.640 --> 54:16.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Displays of different kinds of computers.
[54:17.420 --> 54:22.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Displays of different kinds of, you know, merchandise that people might bring with them.
[54:23.000 --> 54:30.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not a commercial type of an event like, you know, Linux World or something like that where there's all these, you know, quote-unquote vendors.
[54:30.680 --> 54:37.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: The vendors that we have are individual people such as yourself that make, you know, interesting T-shirts that have interest to the hacker community.
[54:37.800 --> 54:39.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: So basically, all you have to do is just let us know.
[54:40.380 --> 54:44.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's an email address, vendors at h2k2.net, I believe, which would work.
[54:44.740 --> 54:45.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: I was there last year, actually.
[54:46.060 --> 54:50.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: I chatted with you for a brief moment, but out of all the people there, I'm sure you won't remember me, but yeah.
[54:50.920 --> 54:52.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it's possible.
[54:52.160 --> 54:53.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just don't remember your voice, but...
[54:53.660 --> 54:53.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[54:54.760 --> 54:58.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: But basically, we're trying to make it as open as possible to people.
[54:58.680 --> 55:02.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: We don't want to commercial flavor to it, you know, so...
[55:02.040 --> 55:03.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's kind of...
[55:03.040 --> 55:03.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's in the hacker's spirit.
[55:04.280 --> 55:05.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's actually...
[55:05.020 --> 55:08.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think they're just really cool shirts, and I'm not really there to make money.
[55:08.300 --> 55:13.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's just kind of an interesting idea, and I thought it'd be fun to kind of wear them myself and have anybody else partake in it, so...
[55:13.200 --> 55:13.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sure, sure.
[55:13.760 --> 55:14.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: It sounds great.
[55:14.720 --> 55:21.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if people out there are interested in speaking, we also are accepting all kinds of proposals for panels and discussions and things like that.
[55:22.040 --> 55:24.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Speakers at h2k2.net as well.
[55:25.040 --> 55:28.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you want to volunteer to help us, volunteers at h2k2.net.
[55:28.320 --> 55:29.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: We certainly could use them.
[55:29.680 --> 55:31.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks, and we'll look forward to seeing you in July.
[55:31.720 --> 55:32.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[55:32.280 --> 55:32.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Take care.
[55:33.100 --> 55:33.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks.
[55:33.280 --> 55:35.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: See if we can squeeze in one or two more.
[55:35.880 --> 55:36.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's go over here.
[55:36.680 --> 55:37.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[55:37.220 --> 55:37.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[55:39.580 --> 55:40.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Speak up, please.
[55:40.440 --> 55:40.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, hello.
[55:40.980 --> 55:41.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I'm out.
[55:41.320 --> 55:41.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: How are you doing?
[55:41.740 --> 55:41.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[55:42.000 --> 55:42.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is AJ.
[55:43.620 --> 55:44.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Something you might be interested in.
[55:44.940 --> 55:45.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh-huh.
[55:46.000 --> 55:47.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: I work in the Bronx in a school.
[55:47.900 --> 55:48.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[55:48.280 --> 55:48.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: A public school.
[55:49.000 --> 55:58.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I was online this morning, and I went to get WBAI, and I got to the website WBAI, but I couldn't get the streaming of the station.
[55:59.100 --> 56:00.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: What was happening when you tried it?
[56:00.560 --> 56:08.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you get an access denied because it's going through your 2600 thing, and it says the reason is crimes.
[56:09.140 --> 56:10.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yeah, because we're criminals, right?
[56:11.160 --> 56:14.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, it sounds like the school that you're going to has some sort of silly block on it.
[56:14.740 --> 56:15.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they have a block on it.
[56:15.700 --> 56:18.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: I also went through the Pacifica site, and the same thing.
[56:19.860 --> 56:21.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can't get WBAI.
[56:21.220 --> 56:23.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, the reason being that the streaming goes through us.
[56:24.000 --> 56:24.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[56:24.400 --> 56:26.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll see if we can come up with a solution to that.
[56:26.520 --> 56:29.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: A couple of things you might try right off the bat is the IP.
[56:29.920 --> 56:38.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you find out the IP, which I don't have off the top of my head of our website where we do the streaming, try putting that in instead of 2600.com.
[56:38.780 --> 56:46.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: You might try some other sites that link to us in different ways, but I think you're going to run into the same problem that they have.
[56:46.680 --> 56:47.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: They have a filter there.
[56:47.740 --> 56:53.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that's part of the problem with filtering is that you filter so many things that you want to hear.
[56:53.680 --> 57:00.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know why we get classified in that way because if you look at our website, if you're able to look at our website, Yeah, I do that at home.
[57:00.680 --> 57:03.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's basically news and information.
[57:04.480 --> 57:08.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you object to the magazine, that's one thing, but the magazine is not on the website.
[57:08.980 --> 57:13.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's the website of the magazine, so you can't take the content of the magazine and apply it to the website.
[57:13.980 --> 57:15.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you can never be too careful with young minds.
[57:16.780 --> 57:17.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, unfortunately.
[57:18.000 --> 57:18.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[57:18.560 --> 57:19.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks for calling.
[57:20.080 --> 57:22.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I really hate that kind of thing.
[57:22.220 --> 57:22.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: I really do.
[57:22.660 --> 57:23.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's go over here.
[57:23.240 --> 57:23.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good evening.
[57:23.580 --> 57:23.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're on the air.
[57:24.960 --> 57:25.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good evening.
[57:25.740 --> 57:29.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Voice Stream store on Fifth Avenue has been closed for some time.
[57:29.660 --> 57:30.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, it has.
[57:30.140 --> 57:30.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yes.
[57:31.500 --> 57:33.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: But without warning.
[57:33.680 --> 57:34.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: But more importantly...
[57:34.920 --> 57:37.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe that's why all that information was thrown out.
[57:37.660 --> 57:38.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[57:38.300 --> 57:39.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: They threw everything out.
[57:39.340 --> 57:42.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it must have taken them some time if this just happened.
[57:42.340 --> 57:44.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: It has been closed for at least three or four weeks.
[57:45.320 --> 57:47.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's about the amount of time it takes for Channel 4 to get a story.
[57:48.000 --> 57:48.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Right.
[57:48.760 --> 57:50.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: But more importantly...
[57:50.460 --> 57:50.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Go ahead.
[57:50.920 --> 57:56.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: Channel 4 had the reporter go in there supposedly today and confront the manager.
[57:56.520 --> 57:56.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: Really?
[57:56.980 --> 57:59.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, and then Voice Stream's national spokesman.
[57:59.420 --> 58:01.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, maybe we'll go over there and find out.
[58:01.400 --> 58:03.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's hard to find the manager in a closed door.
[58:03.460 --> 58:08.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, listen, sir, since you're familiar with the area, to the left of that Voice Stream store, is there a cafe?
[58:09.340 --> 58:10.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: To the right.
[58:10.640 --> 58:13.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: This really isn't that important because we only have about five seconds.
[58:13.420 --> 58:14.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, sir, what is the main thing?
[58:14.680 --> 58:19.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: More importantly, lots of complaints about Voice Stream if you do an Internet search.
[58:19.520 --> 58:26.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: They stole something like $285 from me with their deceptive deadlines.
[58:26.600 --> 58:35.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: They tell you you can renew, you know, on the prepaid plan, you can renew on the day your credit expires.
[58:35.200 --> 58:39.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Only the day ends exactly one minute after it starts.
[58:39.260 --> 58:40.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: We've read that story, in fact.
[58:40.400 --> 58:42.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: One minute after the day starts is when the day ends.
[58:42.640 --> 58:46.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I've seen instances like that.
[58:46.780 --> 58:50.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's deception running rampant in the wireless phone industry.
[58:50.220 --> 58:53.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Unfortunately, sir, we're going to have to stop there because we are out of time.
[58:54.180 --> 58:55.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: But you've got to be careful with these things.
[58:55.860 --> 58:58.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: For instance, Sprint has a deal where I think it's...
[58:58.120 --> 59:00.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: You see it on TV all the time, 4,000 minutes for $39.
[59:00.920 --> 59:06.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: But they divide it in such a way that if you make calls during the daytime, you only get about 300 minutes.
[59:07.080 --> 59:11.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you make a call past the 300 minutes, you pay a huge amount per minute.
[59:11.300 --> 59:13.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: They pay something like 40 cents or 50 cents a minute.
[59:13.880 --> 59:15.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: So that's how they get you, folks.
[59:15.480 --> 59:17.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's always a way that they get you.
[59:18.240 --> 59:20.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Anyway, that's it for the show tonight.
[59:21.520 --> 59:23.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll be back again next week with even more fun.
[59:24.140 --> 59:26.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Until then, it's Emmanuel Goldstein for the entire Off the Hook crew.
[59:26.720 --> 59:28.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[59:30.060 --> 59:31.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll see you next week.
[59:31.460 --> 59:31.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Good night.
[59:32.460 --> 59:32.820]  Good
[59:48.670 --> 59:49.010]  night.
[59:52.670 --> 59:58.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: Machines, machines, they keep right on going.
[59:58.110 --> 59:58.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: Machines, machines, they keep right on going.
[59:58.930 --> 01:00:04.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: But I am weak, but I want to go on home.
[01:00:05.210 --> 01:00:10.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm too tired to speak, but they won't let me alone.
[01:00:10.610 --> 01:00:15.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, oh, yeah.
[01:00:16.370 --> 01:00:21.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Machines, machines, they keep right on moving.
[01:00:22.670 --> 01:00:28.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Machines, machines, they keep right on moving.
[01:00:28.670 --> 01:00:34.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I've got to find a place to rest my head.
[01:00:34.930 --> 01:00:40.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: A machine, he smile at me and say, I'm gonna be all dead.
[01:00:41.350 --> 01:00:41.910]  All
[01:00:58.030 --> 01:01:04.910]  [SPEAKER_03]: dead machines, machines, we made them to serve us.
[01:01:05.350 --> 01:01:11.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Machines, machines, we built them to serve us.
[01:01:11.430 --> 01:01:42.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: But till the day I'm buried in my grave, just right until that day I know I'm gonna be a slave I'm gonna be a slave A slave A slave A slave To the winds They keep right on winning Machines, machines They keep right on winning Join
[01:02:01.810 --> 01:02:20.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: a panoply of Pacifica people and a world mix of artists, activists, techies, and friends at a fundraiser for WBIX and Free the Media This is Zool of Free the Media Collective This is Bernard White, Program Director of WBAI Radio Amlimen Katrouda S wichtig Go...
[01:02:20.090 --> 01:02:20.910]  To the moment The one