Off The Hook - 2002-06-04

[00:52.500 --> 00:56.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York.
[00:56.120 --> 01:02.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this programming announcement, the Expert Witness Show, which you just heard, will not be heard again at that time slot.
[01:02.920 --> 01:08.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: It is moving to... as I look at the chart here for the very first time...
[01:08.380 --> 01:10.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are there supposed to be days on top of here?
[01:10.360 --> 01:11.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because there aren't.
[01:11.680 --> 01:15.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I'm going to try to assume... okay, that must be... okay, Monday.
[01:15.520 --> 01:16.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Monday at 5 p.m.
[01:17.320 --> 01:20.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is excitingly, we kind of like find out live when things are going to be on.
[01:20.360 --> 01:22.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Monday at 5 p.m.
[01:22.480 --> 01:24.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: is when Expert Witness Show will be on from now on.
[01:24.900 --> 01:29.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: So if you're an Expert Witness Show listener, take note.
[01:29.660 --> 01:36.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if you're an off-the-hook listener, you should also take note to the program that follows, because we'll have an announcement about our new time slot.
[01:37.360 --> 01:39.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if you're a enough-said listener...
[01:46.510 --> 01:51.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: People think comic book is nothing, but comic book shoots right across young culture in America.
[01:51.210 --> 01:52.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: It shoots right to the kids.
[01:52.850 --> 01:57.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: It hits the... it hits key kids who are decision-makers in their groups.
[01:58.110 --> 02:00.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Comic books are read by people who read.
[02:00.530 --> 02:03.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: Comic books are commented on by people who think.
[02:03.710 --> 02:05.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're not... they're not for stupid people.
[02:06.070 --> 02:07.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they're not for ignorant people.
[02:07.530 --> 02:09.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they're not for non-leaders.
[02:09.290 --> 02:10.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: They are for everybody, but...
[02:11.630 --> 02:18.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: From my experience, they go directly to people who have things to say, who will have things to say in the future.
[02:18.410 --> 02:27.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the fact that they're being done the way they are, and the fact that they're being done by people who really care about what's going on in America is, I believe, is going to make a difference.
[02:28.430 --> 02:31.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's not a small thing that's happening there.
[02:31.710 --> 02:32.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm very happy to see it happen.
[02:32.950 --> 02:36.750]  [SPEAKER_14]: That was Neil Adams, speaking on an early episode of Nuff Said.
[02:37.190 --> 02:43.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: To hear thought-provoking and entertaining discussion on the subject of comics, tune in every Tuesday night at 10 p.m.
[02:43.890 --> 02:49.010]  [SPEAKER_14]: for Nuff Said, here on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM.
[02:49.450 --> 02:53.830]  [SPEAKER_14]: And visit our website, nuffsaid.net, for our upcoming schedule of guests.
[02:54.470 --> 02:55.310]  [SPEAKER_14]: See you there.
[02:58.050 --> 03:07.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, well, I guess we should point out, first of all, don't go to nuffsaid.net, because it's now a porn site since the events of a few weeks ago where the domain lapsed and fell into the wrong hands.
[03:08.670 --> 03:15.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: But unfortunately, it also appears that that program will have its swan song tonight at 10 o'clock.
[03:15.450 --> 03:16.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: It will be the last edition.
[03:17.150 --> 03:22.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: So tune in 10 o'clock tonight for the final edition of Nuff Said.
[03:22.350 --> 03:23.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is Off the Hook.
[03:28.790 --> 03:41.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call We couldn't get much work
[03:45.280 --> 03:51.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the best is paid for worst I hope that's understood But didn't it go?
[04:39.310 --> 04:58.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: And good evening to everybody This is Off the Hook And yes, the rumors are true This is the last edition of Off the Hook that we'll be airing at this time slot We moved into this time slot I did a little research I actually had some friends do some research while I was driving in October 3rd,
[04:58.330 --> 05:15.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: 1995 is when we move to Tuesday at 8pm And tonight is the night we move out of Tuesday at 8pm Our new slot will be Wednesdays at 7pm Is that too confusing?
[05:16.270 --> 05:42.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm confused Alright, let's start over We won't be on Tuesdays at 8pm anymore unless you're in some bizarre part of the world where Wednesdays at 7pm is equal to Tuesday at 8pm But I don't think there are any parts of the world like that So we will be on 7pm Eastern Time on this radio station Same frequency But we won't be on tomorrow Tomorrow is the last time that you will hear Explorations with
[05:42.990 --> 05:55.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mishio Kaku at that time And then Explorations is moving to 5pm on Wednesdays And we're going to be on at 7pm And followed by the personal computer show.
[05:55.930 --> 05:56.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it'll be kind of cool.
[05:56.750 --> 05:59.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like it was in the old days where we were followed by the personal computer show.
[05:59.890 --> 06:04.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: And then at one point, the personal computer show was before us and we followed it.
[06:04.310 --> 06:05.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it kind of like flows.
[06:08.310 --> 06:09.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's funny, you know.
[06:09.650 --> 06:12.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Communications is always the biggest problem at a radio station.
[06:12.650 --> 06:14.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know why, but it always is.
[06:15.570 --> 06:19.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Nobody really knows what's happening as far as airtime programs, things like that.
[06:19.950 --> 06:27.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: People come in here, you watch them come in, and then they sort of, you know, do the dramatic gasping, fainting type of thing when they realize what's happening to them.
[06:28.150 --> 06:31.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: That they're moving or sometimes, as in the case of Nuff Said, being canceled.
[06:31.910 --> 06:35.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Which I really don't think that's a good idea.
[06:35.170 --> 06:37.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: But that's not my decision to make, unfortunately.
[06:37.050 --> 06:38.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I really don't think it's...
[06:38.990 --> 06:40.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think there's a lot of comic book people out there.
[06:41.070 --> 06:41.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: I really do.
[06:42.190 --> 06:45.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: And hopefully we'll find space for them someplace.
[06:48.830 --> 06:49.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Max, you did okay, right?
[06:50.250 --> 06:51.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're in a...
[06:51.610 --> 06:52.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: What chart are you looking at?
[06:53.250 --> 06:54.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm looking at the...
[06:54.450 --> 06:55.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is this the wrong chart now?
[06:55.570 --> 06:58.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, we were going to be at that slot, but we moved.
[06:59.410 --> 07:00.790]  [SPEAKER_17]: You mean this chart isn't even right?
[07:00.850 --> 07:01.690]  [SPEAKER_17]: This chart isn't right either.
[07:01.850 --> 07:03.450]  [SPEAKER_17]: The chart that was just sent out to all the staff?
[07:03.610 --> 07:05.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, this chart is already outdated.
[07:05.570 --> 07:10.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, originally, we were told we were moving to Wednesday at 5 p.m.
[07:11.210 --> 07:13.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: drive time, which is really kind of good.
[07:13.690 --> 07:17.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I just didn't think it would work out for our listeners because a lot of people are in school.
[07:17.770 --> 07:22.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: A lot of people, you know, especially our streaming team, who winds up streaming the show all around the world.
[07:23.170 --> 07:26.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I asked if we could have something a little later.
[07:26.190 --> 07:30.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they were kind enough to work it out so that we're on now at 7 p.m.
[07:30.990 --> 07:33.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: And Explorations is on at 5 p.m.
[07:34.290 --> 07:36.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but Max, you're on when now?
[07:36.550 --> 07:37.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: Have you moved?
[07:37.510 --> 07:38.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Golden Age of Radio?
[07:38.730 --> 07:38.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[07:39.130 --> 07:41.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: Golden Age of Radio moves now to 9 o'clock.
[07:41.710 --> 07:42.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: 9 o'clock?
[07:42.650 --> 07:43.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: From...
[07:43.050 --> 07:44.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: For an extra half hour, from 7.30.
[07:44.630 --> 07:44.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[07:45.470 --> 07:46.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you have an extra half hour?
[07:46.810 --> 07:46.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[07:47.190 --> 07:47.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, that's...
[07:47.930 --> 07:48.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: Exciting stuff.
[07:48.510 --> 07:48.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's good.
[07:49.190 --> 07:49.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's good.
[07:49.830 --> 07:52.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: Old-time radio is one of my favorite things to listen to on the radio.
[07:53.210 --> 07:53.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: So...
[07:54.490 --> 07:59.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: If it's one of your favorite things, Sunday nights at 9 is when you can hear that.
[08:03.170 --> 08:05.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's going to require some patience, folks.
[08:05.330 --> 08:05.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: It really is.
[08:06.550 --> 08:10.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know there's a lot of complaints about the way this has happened.
[08:11.050 --> 08:14.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I don't think they're at all bad complaints.
[08:14.510 --> 08:20.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I guess we need to hear listener feedback on this.
[08:20.610 --> 08:27.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we'll take some phone calls tonight if people want to give us some of that in just a little while.
[08:27.170 --> 08:32.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: But again, the announcement for us is that we will be on Wednesdays at 7 p.m.
[08:32.450 --> 08:33.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: starting next week.
[08:34.030 --> 08:37.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that means you'll have an extra day of having to do without off the hook.
[08:40.890 --> 08:42.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: An extra 23 hours only.
[08:42.970 --> 08:43.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that's true.
[08:43.650 --> 08:44.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: An extra 23 hours.
[08:46.470 --> 08:46.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[08:46.990 --> 08:48.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I'm trying to adjust to this right now.
[08:50.950 --> 08:53.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, so what has happened this week?
[08:53.590 --> 08:57.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'll take phone calls in a little bit and get some feedback from people and things like that.
[08:57.870 --> 09:00.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: But this has been a fun week, hasn't it?
[09:00.530 --> 09:02.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's always fun in these parts.
[09:03.070 --> 09:04.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I think it has been.
[09:04.830 --> 09:06.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: A lot's been going on in the world.
[09:06.050 --> 09:07.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: I can't stop watching the World Cup.
[09:07.670 --> 09:08.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know why.
[09:08.570 --> 09:09.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't even like sports.
[09:10.330 --> 09:13.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I just think it's fascinating to watch things happening all over the world.
[09:14.050 --> 09:22.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, all these teams coming from different places, such as Cameroon and South Korea and, you know, Argentina and even the United States.
[09:22.730 --> 09:24.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: But nobody here cares.
[09:24.210 --> 09:31.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, I think that's maybe what propels me even more is the fact that we have this attitude where all the rest of the world can just, you know, go to hell.
[09:32.070 --> 09:36.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Even if we're part of the rest of the world, you know, somehow we actually made it into the finals.
[09:36.090 --> 09:38.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: In fact, our first game is tonight, like 2.30 in the morning.
[09:40.330 --> 09:42.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Everybody else in the world is following this.
[09:42.330 --> 09:47.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, things come to a standstill in other countries when your team is playing.
[09:47.370 --> 09:49.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Paraguay, you know, nobody was doing anything.
[09:49.270 --> 09:49.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: Belgium.
[09:51.590 --> 09:53.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: Korea won their very first game.
[09:53.490 --> 09:56.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: South Korea won their very first game early this morning, for us anyway.
[09:57.250 --> 09:59.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, of course, the whole country is affected by that.
[09:59.770 --> 10:01.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: But we'll be playing...
[10:02.110 --> 10:05.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll give a gold medal to anybody in this room that knows who we're going to play tonight.
[10:05.310 --> 10:05.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Does anybody know?
[10:05.810 --> 10:09.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you're a typical example of the problem.
[10:10.590 --> 10:13.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: But I don't know who any local sports teams are playing.
[10:14.030 --> 10:15.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, these aren't local sports teams.
[10:15.310 --> 10:15.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: These are countries.
[10:16.370 --> 10:17.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, these are entire...
[10:17.250 --> 10:21.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, you know, it's an international, like, show of cooperation and that kind of thing.
[10:21.370 --> 10:24.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: For that reason alone, even if you don't like sports, it's just fascinating to watch.
[10:25.050 --> 10:34.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's fascinating to see the different reactions and the different dresses and, you know, just how people react and the camaraderie and, you know, it's just kind of neat.
[10:34.150 --> 10:34.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's all.
[10:34.670 --> 10:35.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've always been fascinated by that.
[10:35.830 --> 10:36.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's a system, too.
[10:37.030 --> 10:39.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: And whenever there's a system involved, I take an interest.
[10:39.690 --> 10:44.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, there's some kind of elaborate playoff system that gets these 32 teams there to one place.
[10:45.330 --> 10:48.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that system takes place over the course of years.
[10:48.410 --> 10:49.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: What is that one place?
[10:50.130 --> 10:51.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right now, actually, it's two places.
[10:52.050 --> 10:52.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, yeah, you got me on that.
[10:54.210 --> 10:58.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: For the first time ever, the World Cup is being hosted in two countries, South Korea and Japan.
[10:59.830 --> 11:05.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, of course, that means that both South Korea and Japan get automatic passes to the tournament without having to play any games before now.
[11:07.190 --> 11:11.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: And both Japan and Korea before today never won a single game.
[11:11.590 --> 11:14.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think Japan still hasn't won a single game in the World Cup, but they tied.
[11:15.590 --> 11:18.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: And South Korea won their very first ever game this morning.
[11:19.270 --> 11:21.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: And our congratulations go out to them.
[11:21.610 --> 11:25.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: If we have any South Korean listeners, feel free to be the first call that we'll take tonight.
[11:26.990 --> 11:28.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, yeah, that's what I've been doing.
[11:28.210 --> 11:33.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've been, you know, watching that live on Canadian TV because it's very hard to see it on American TV.
[11:33.870 --> 11:37.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: Canada's not even in the tournament, but they take more of an interest in us.
[11:37.550 --> 11:38.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, I don't know what it is.
[11:38.790 --> 11:45.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's like, you know, we're in that adolescent stage of development where nothing is cool and everything sucks, you know.
[11:45.210 --> 11:47.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that's sort of how we treat the rest of the world.
[11:47.370 --> 11:48.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like, oh, you know, it doesn't matter.
[11:48.990 --> 11:52.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, aliens landing in Mongolia and hanging out with people.
[11:52.270 --> 11:55.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: We don't care because we've got, you know, we've got SUVs over here.
[11:56.550 --> 11:58.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: And those are really neat.
[11:58.190 --> 11:59.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, I don't know.
[11:59.850 --> 12:02.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just like to take an interest in different things.
[12:02.230 --> 12:06.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it always sets me apart somehow.
[12:06.270 --> 12:11.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, we announced our speaker schedule, which is kind of cool.
[12:13.890 --> 12:19.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: And let's go over some of the highlights of our speaker schedule for the conference coming up in just over a month.
[12:19.910 --> 12:24.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: H2K2 taking place July 12th through 14th right here in New York City.
[12:25.490 --> 12:39.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Our keynote speaker is going to be Aaron Magruder, who does the comic strip The Boondocks, which is always in the spotlight of controversy for various political stances.
[12:39.970 --> 12:46.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: But also, this is the only comic strip that ever tackled the DECSS issue.
[12:46.190 --> 12:51.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: I shouldn't say the only comic strip, but the one that is in every mainstream newspaper.
[12:51.790 --> 12:54.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: For some reason, I'm not quite sure how he managed to pull that off.
[12:54.630 --> 12:55.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: He's going to tell us.
[12:57.070 --> 13:01.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: He actually covered the DECSS case and got it right.
[13:01.470 --> 13:08.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, he did better than any of the columnists that appear in major newspapers, because they all got it wrong.
[13:08.290 --> 13:10.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, you know, a cartoon gets it right.
[13:10.270 --> 13:11.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was amazing.
[13:11.590 --> 13:13.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: I was very impressed by that.
[13:14.910 --> 13:18.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, in fact, you can see a link to the particular strip in question on our webpage.
[13:19.350 --> 13:22.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you just follow the links to the speaker list, you'll see that.
[13:22.970 --> 13:30.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh, so Aaron McGruder will be talking about, uh, censorship and, um, technical issues as well, because he's, uh, he's familiar with both.
[13:30.830 --> 13:37.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, and we're also going to have a second keynote, uh, and forgive me if I don't pronounce the name right, because I, I don't think I've done it right yet.
[13:37.190 --> 13:44.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, uh, Siva Vat-Heinathan, well, okay, he's a professor at NYU and the University of Wisconsin.
[13:44.650 --> 13:49.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: He's been on NPR, and he's written a book called Copyrights and Copy Wrongs.
[13:49.590 --> 13:58.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, he's quite an expert on copyright law and how it applies to people like us and the mainstream and all that kind of thing.
[13:58.710 --> 14:03.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, we also have, uh, Mark Hosler, the lead singer of Negative Land, is going to be joining us.
[14:03.390 --> 14:07.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, they're, I think they're the only band that ever got sued by their own record company.
[14:08.150 --> 14:09.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: As well as other ones, too.
[14:10.050 --> 14:12.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, and, and the whole thing with the man U2 and Casey Kasem.
[14:13.170 --> 14:20.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, basically, if you want people who know what fair use is all about, Negative Land are probably the best group of people to tell you that.
[14:20.810 --> 14:26.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: As, uh, they've been putting out records with all kinds of samples for, for over a decade.
[14:26.250 --> 14:29.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, all kinds of experimental things going on there.
[14:31.490 --> 14:39.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, we also have, uh, some returning favorites, such as Robert Steele, former, uh, clandestine, uh, federal agent.
[14:39.650 --> 14:41.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, the Cult of the Dead Cow.
[14:41.910 --> 14:43.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, and here's something interesting.
[14:44.590 --> 14:52.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: The, um, the piece that you've heard many, many times, probably, um, the Conscience of a Hacker, for this piece.
[14:52.630 --> 14:56.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, this is, this is my world, the world of the Electron, et cetera, et cetera, is quoted in Hackers.
[14:57.030 --> 15:03.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, we're actually going to have the person who wrote that piece here at the conference, uh, doing a dramatic reading.
[15:03.090 --> 15:11.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: And also, uh, I guess, uh, telling some of the things that have happened as a result of, uh, of having that piece, uh, become so famous.
[15:12.350 --> 15:14.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, and, of course, a lot of other people as well.
[15:14.730 --> 15:23.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Steve Rambam, the, uh, the world-famous private investigator that, uh, will frighten you with all kinds of information on how your private information is not so private after all.
[15:24.090 --> 15:31.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, Uzi Nissan, who was on this show a couple of weeks ago, had the audacity to register Nissan.com and not give it to the car manufacturer.
[15:32.390 --> 15:37.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: John Young, the, um, the founder, operator of, uh, Cryptome.org.
[15:37.970 --> 15:44.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, uh, Deborah Natsias, who, uh, operates the, um, um, the companion site, Cartome.org.
[15:45.790 --> 15:53.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, as well as Andy Muller-Magoon, who, uh, is from Chaos Computer Club, also on the board of ICANN, frequently on this radio program as well.
[15:54.590 --> 15:56.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, and, of course, Rop from Amsterdam.
[15:57.210 --> 16:04.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: Rop, the founder of, uh, of, um, Hacktick, the Dutch hacker magazine, which, uh, turned into Access for All.
[16:04.830 --> 16:10.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, of course, Rop has been involved in, uh, all the Dutch conferences as well, and all the American ones, for that matter, as well.
[16:10.510 --> 16:16.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, we'll, um, we'll have our, our lawyer, Eric Grimm, with us, uh, who helped us win the case against Ford.
[16:17.310 --> 16:22.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: And he'll be, uh, telling you exactly what it's like to be a lawyer that understands this kind of stuff.
[16:22.510 --> 16:27.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: As will Mike Godwin, the former staff counsel for the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
[16:27.490 --> 16:36.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: And Robin Gross, who's currently with the Electronic Frontier Foundation, who'll be giving us some insight into the whole DECSS mess and, uh, where that went and where it's going.
[16:36.790 --> 16:44.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, other favorites, such as Guedes, the, uh, hacker activist who wants it to be made clear that he's not a hacktivist.
[16:45.810 --> 16:48.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess he'll go into more detail on that.
[16:48.450 --> 16:57.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, Pud, who is the founder of, uh, one of the favorite websites on the net today, whose name we cannot say, because it has one of those words in it, but I think you might know, uh, the website we're talking about.
[16:57.970 --> 17:05.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's the one everyone goes to to find out what's going on with, uh, you know, with companies, and, uh, find out the latest rumors, who's going out of business, who's laying off employees, etc.
[17:06.850 --> 17:15.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, of course, uh, favorites like Bernie S., Cheshire Catalyst, and, uh, here's someone interesting, Mike Levine, the guy who precedes this radio program.
[17:15.410 --> 17:20.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: The expert witness will be, uh, talking about things like how, uh, how the FBI really works.
[17:21.390 --> 17:27.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, speaking of the FBI, the FBI has become a much more powerful organization than last week.
[17:29.270 --> 17:30.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: You've heard about this, haven't you, Mike?
[17:30.890 --> 17:31.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[17:31.310 --> 17:35.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it's, uh, it's kind of, uh, kind of scary.
[17:35.650 --> 17:40.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: They basically have, uh, been given additional powers to conduct...
[17:40.070 --> 17:41.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: They have given themselves additional powers.
[17:41.910 --> 17:43.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, yeah, it doesn't matter who gave it to them.
[17:43.630 --> 17:46.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: They've been given, you know, it's been given to them by themselves, I suppose.
[17:47.630 --> 17:54.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, they, they have additional powers now to conduct domestic counterterrorism surveillance that they can define in whatever way they please.
[17:55.590 --> 18:00.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, critics, however, are spoiling the whole thing, saying it could trample on Americans' constitutional rights.
[18:01.290 --> 18:05.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have no constitutional rights, so how could it trample on them anymore, you know?
[18:06.230 --> 18:21.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: A quarter century after the government imposed guidelines to curtail domestic spying, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced changes to lift FBI restrictions on conducting surveillance of public gatherings, such as 2,600 meetings and conferences, and maybe even radio shows,
[18:21.490 --> 18:28.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: uh, religious and political organizations, and, uh, they're now allowed to surf the internet as part of the government's response to September 11th attacks.
[18:28.430 --> 18:29.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, Mike, let me ask you this.
[18:29.610 --> 18:31.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: What's wrong with having the feds surf the internet?
[18:31.810 --> 18:32.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: How is that a threat?
[18:32.930 --> 18:50.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, what's wrong with this is, it's that the feds surfing the internet is not the same thing as you or I surfing the internet, because they have this kind of massive, uh, network of people who are all trying to put this information together and using it to build profiles about people who are not necessarily breaking the law.
[18:50.730 --> 18:51.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[18:51.750 --> 18:52.110]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[18:52.110 --> 18:57.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, previously, the rule was you had to suspect that someone was committing a crime before you investigated them.
[18:57.870 --> 18:58.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[18:58.190 --> 19:00.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now the rule is you... you... there's no rule.
[19:01.250 --> 19:08.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: So they can just go around collecting evidence, information on people without any... any proof of a crime being committed.
[19:08.470 --> 19:08.530]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[19:08.530 --> 19:09.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, uh...
[19:09.250 --> 19:11.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: Not even the suspicion, let alone proof.
[19:11.550 --> 19:27.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: People like us, for instance, you know, it's a, it's a stretch Not much of the imagination, but we could actually attract the attention of the federal authorities, and they could actually go out on the web and collect information, all kinds of things that are said about us,
[19:27.070 --> 19:32.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: or all kinds of things that we are alleged to have been involved in, and make a nice little falter based on this.
[19:33.070 --> 19:37.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: Seems to me that that would make their intelligence a lot less intelligent.
[19:37.910 --> 19:41.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: It seems, frankly, like a waste of time, but...
[19:43.850 --> 19:44.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: Chris?
[19:45.030 --> 19:58.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, the main difference is that previously, if they suspected that someone might be involved in, say, terrorist activities, they would be able to go out, look for any communications of theirs that have been archived on the internet, whereas now they can go on the internet and start doing searches,
[19:58.910 --> 20:03.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: or more likely program robots to go out and do searches for things like Palestinian liberation.
[20:04.670 --> 20:05.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: You mean robots on...
[20:05.910 --> 20:12.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: For the non-technical listeners, so they don't panic, you're not saying sending robots out into the street, you're saying robots online.
[20:12.810 --> 20:20.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right, robots is in programs that go out and automatically search the internet for various things and index them and cross-reference the web pages they find.
[20:20.710 --> 20:31.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: And look for things like Palestinian liberation, start collecting names of people who have websites, you know, anti-Israeli websites or anti-American websites, and start putting them all in a large database.
[20:31.090 --> 20:38.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then, say, you know, doing queries like, what person has websites that criticize, you know, 10 of these major American policies?
[20:38.790 --> 20:45.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then, okay, well, we want to start, you know, looking for any emails they've written that have got an archive, and are they doing anything that sounds suspicious?
[20:45.830 --> 20:56.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: So they're now able to start doing searches basically to go out and find people to suspect, rather than having to suspect someone and then going to try and find evidence to support a full investigation.
[20:56.150 --> 21:01.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: Has anything been said about what they intend to do after they gather this information on people?
[21:01.130 --> 21:05.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are they going to start hauling people in for questioning based on this information they find on the web?
[21:05.890 --> 21:08.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Has anyone talked about this?
[21:09.050 --> 21:18.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if any of that, if their powers in that regard have changed, or if they're still limited as far as what they have to have in order to bring people in or not.
[21:18.130 --> 21:26.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know what I find interesting about all this is that a couple of weeks ago, if you recall, Bush was under fire for allegedly missing some clues to 9-1-1.
[21:26.510 --> 21:27.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: And now this.
[21:27.690 --> 21:33.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: Does anybody else think that that first story was kind of planted in order to justify this?
[21:33.530 --> 21:34.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: It seems kind of bizarre.
[21:34.630 --> 21:39.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, everyone was, you know, saying that Bush's critics were the ones responsible, but Bush wins in this.
[21:39.930 --> 21:47.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: Bush gets a lot more power and a lot more... an FBI that basically is unlimited in scope.
[21:47.830 --> 21:48.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's Jim.
[21:48.550 --> 21:55.450]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, a lot of people are saying that with terrorism it's necessary to do relatively outrageous things nowadays.
[21:55.450 --> 21:55.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: Mm-hmm.
[21:56.190 --> 21:59.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: But the point is that it's wrong, and here's why.
[22:00.550 --> 22:13.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: This is akin, these new powers of the FBI is akin to trying to stop theft and possession of stolen property by allowing the police to go into everybody's home, look around, and demand receipts for everything you've got.
[22:13.290 --> 22:13.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[22:14.310 --> 22:19.770]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, you're going to catch a lot of crooks, but you're also going to make everybody paranoid.
[22:20.850 --> 22:25.650]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're going to get a lot of people who may have grabbed one thing way back in the past.
[22:25.810 --> 22:26.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: Mm-hmm.
[22:26.550 --> 22:31.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: And never done anything more, and you're going to miss people who are doing it, you know, all the time.
[22:31.590 --> 22:34.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're going to miss terrorists, you're going to get people who've done one little thing.
[22:35.090 --> 22:38.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, terrorists are the people I think that would be able to figure out ways around this kind of thing.
[22:38.590 --> 22:39.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: Another good point.
[22:39.190 --> 22:47.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's not too hard when, you know, when everybody is being watched to figure out a way to either blend in or just outsmart the whole system.
[22:47.190 --> 22:48.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, yeah.
[22:48.590 --> 22:52.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: And plus, you have to ask yourself, how much of this would have prevented anything that happened?
[22:53.710 --> 22:55.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I don't know.
[22:55.450 --> 22:56.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know if any of it would have.
[22:56.910 --> 22:57.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, that's another good point.
[22:58.030 --> 22:58.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: It wouldn't have.
[22:58.710 --> 23:01.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: There are little snippets of intelligence coming out.
[23:01.790 --> 23:06.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: They followed two of the guys that crashed into the Pentagon to a conference in Malaysia.
[23:06.770 --> 23:11.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: They had warnings just before that there were planned hijackings.
[23:12.450 --> 23:15.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: Ashcroft supposedly stopped flying commercial a week or so before.
[23:15.670 --> 23:20.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: And I remember him announcing it at the time because there was an increased threat of hijackings.
[23:23.010 --> 23:24.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: And yet it wasn't put together.
[23:25.430 --> 23:26.870]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's not some conspiracy.
[23:27.190 --> 23:28.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's not a great breakdown.
[23:28.310 --> 23:33.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's just that you don't think of things like this, just like we never thought of the attack on Pearl Harbor until it happened.
[23:33.290 --> 23:36.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's sort of the whole... I mean, that's how terrorism works.
[23:37.110 --> 23:38.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're not supposed to piece it together.
[23:38.310 --> 23:39.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: It doesn't work that way.
[23:39.610 --> 23:39.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[23:45.670 --> 23:46.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Left lying around.
[23:47.050 --> 23:52.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: And okay, maybe you can say, okay, these clues were here, but next time it's not likely the same clues will be there.
[23:52.890 --> 23:59.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's not likely that, you know, they'll be as sloppy as to leave clues or register cars in their real names or things like that.
[23:59.190 --> 24:07.010]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's... I think basically you're ensuring better prepared terrorists for the next time by having...
[24:07.010 --> 24:07.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's a good point.
[24:07.590 --> 24:09.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: ...having everybody under surveillance like this.
[24:10.010 --> 24:12.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: And yeah, it's a horrible thing that's happening to society.
[24:12.670 --> 24:15.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you look on CNN.com, you'll see there's a poll there.
[24:15.490 --> 24:19.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: And most people don't think these new restrictions are a threat to civil liberties.
[24:20.410 --> 24:22.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I just cannot understand that.
[24:22.110 --> 24:29.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: How can you have such blind faith in authorities to think that something this all-encompassing is not bad?
[24:29.910 --> 24:32.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm curious about your blind faith in CNN polls.
[24:32.610 --> 24:33.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, that's true, too.
[24:33.830 --> 24:38.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd like to know how they work, to be honest, because they always have, like, you know, 10,000 people voting before I even see it.
[24:39.210 --> 24:44.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: But one other disturbing thing is that the day before they announced these new powers to themselves, they made another announcement.
[24:44.770 --> 24:48.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: The FBI has been busy making announcements.
[24:49.010 --> 24:53.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: And they're refocusing their organization on three priorities.
[24:54.130 --> 24:54.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[24:55.110 --> 24:55.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: What are they?
[24:55.810 --> 24:56.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: You have them.
[24:56.510 --> 25:01.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're counterterrorism, counterintelligence, and cybercrime.
[25:01.610 --> 25:03.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Whatever cybercrime is.
[25:03.230 --> 25:03.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that's true.
[25:03.930 --> 25:12.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: And at least one news site, if you want to call it that, Fox News, phrased it this way, in quotes.
[25:13.470 --> 25:21.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: The director is moving hundreds of agents, mostly from drug investigations, to focus on terrorism and prevent future attacks.
[25:21.890 --> 25:28.650]  [SPEAKER_15]: The FBI's top new marching orders will focus on terrorists, spies, and hackers in that order.
[25:30.110 --> 25:31.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good Lord.
[25:31.610 --> 25:33.950]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, this is just, this is fantasy.
[25:34.250 --> 25:35.070]  [SPEAKER_15]: It has to be.
[25:35.190 --> 25:38.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hackers, number three, the number three threat to the country.
[25:38.790 --> 25:39.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: Could be worse.
[25:39.570 --> 25:40.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: We could have been listed number one.
[25:40.910 --> 25:44.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, I guess we could have beat out terrorists if we really, you know, tried a lot harder.
[25:44.970 --> 25:47.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: But this, first of all, let's be fair here.
[25:48.050 --> 25:50.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: The feds did not say the word hackers.
[25:50.530 --> 25:51.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is Fox News saying this.
[25:53.710 --> 26:02.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: But the perception of hackers among the uninformed really doesn't make that much of a difference between anybody committing a crime with a computer and a computer hacker.
[26:02.250 --> 26:13.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it's important that, probably now more than ever, that we define ourselves in a way that people can understand, you know, that's clear.
[26:15.150 --> 26:21.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: Computer hackers are not the people going around basically destroying computers.
[26:21.810 --> 26:25.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, you know, any kind of computer crime is not attributable to a hacker.
[26:26.330 --> 26:27.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hackers are people who figure things out.
[26:27.950 --> 26:29.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hackers are people who spread information.
[26:29.790 --> 26:34.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hackers are people who get in trouble because they basically tell people things.
[26:34.390 --> 26:36.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: They explain how things work.
[26:36.250 --> 26:39.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you look at all the hackers that, yeah, and you're a good example of that, Jim.
[26:39.830 --> 26:55.050]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you look at all the hackers that we've defended over the years on this radio show, from Fiber Optic to Bernie S to Kevin Mitnick and now to Jim here, formerly from the MTA, it's all people who experiment with technology, figure things out, and let other people know about it.
[26:55.110 --> 26:56.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the authorities hate that.
[26:56.590 --> 27:01.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: But to equate that with people who go around taking out power grids.
[27:01.870 --> 27:03.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't know if anyone's taken out a power grid yet.
[27:03.650 --> 27:04.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: It happens in the films all the time.
[27:04.830 --> 27:06.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: But, you know, people who do that using a computer.
[27:07.030 --> 27:10.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, you know, because you use a computer, it does not make you a hacker.
[27:10.930 --> 27:12.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: Otherwise, everybody in the country is a hacker.
[27:13.050 --> 27:15.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I don't think that's really the way things are.
[27:15.790 --> 27:24.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, there's relatively few people that possess what it takes to pretty much keep at something that the rest of us think is a waste of time.
[27:24.390 --> 27:25.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what hackers do.
[27:25.210 --> 27:28.930]  [SPEAKER_15]: They spend all night trying things over and over and over again.
[27:29.590 --> 27:31.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: And the rest of us just think they're crazy.
[27:31.870 --> 27:37.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: They think, you know, they're losers that, you know, have absolutely, you know, no social life at all.
[27:37.290 --> 27:41.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, nothing better to do than to play with a computer for like, you know, 18 hours at a stretch.
[27:42.070 --> 27:44.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they just will never understand.
[27:44.970 --> 27:45.430]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right?
[27:45.530 --> 27:46.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's the thing.
[27:46.270 --> 27:54.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: They will never understand the drive, the thrill, the sense of exploration and adventure that you get from doing this kind of thing.
[27:54.650 --> 27:56.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, it doesn't just stick with computers.
[27:57.190 --> 27:58.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: It, you know, it's telephones.
[27:59.030 --> 28:00.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's any form of technology.
[28:00.790 --> 28:03.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: And in some cases, it's not even technological.
[28:03.670 --> 28:07.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's, you know, the quest for knowledge has been with us for quite a long time.
[28:08.070 --> 28:10.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's what real hacking is all about.
[28:10.290 --> 28:13.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's something I don't think the mainstream media, I don't think Fox News will ever get that.
[28:14.290 --> 28:16.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: And unfortunately, I don't think the feds are going to get that either.
[28:17.090 --> 28:20.090]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're simply going to equate us all in the same category.
[28:20.830 --> 28:24.210]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it's a very dangerous period that we're embarking upon here.
[28:24.870 --> 28:29.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I fear that we're going to have a lot to talk about in our new time slot.
[28:29.610 --> 28:31.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: A lot of unpleasant things to talk about.
[28:32.030 --> 28:38.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that is, of course, if this whole place isn't shut down because it's a little too suspicious for the feds to be comfortable with.
[28:40.030 --> 28:42.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, yeah, that's what's going on.
[28:43.530 --> 28:44.630]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's been a busy week.
[28:44.630 --> 28:45.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: It really has.
[28:47.610 --> 28:48.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: New FBI powers.
[28:48.830 --> 28:49.730]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's going to be something.
[28:49.930 --> 28:50.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: It really is.
[28:50.850 --> 28:58.790]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, yeah, we like to hear what people have to say about that as well as anything involving schedule changes and other things along those lines.
[28:58.870 --> 29:01.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's read a couple of letters and then we'll get to the phones.
[29:03.630 --> 29:20.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: This person wants to know if we have any objections if they take the soundtrack to the film, Freedom Down Time, and make an og vorbis file of the soundtrack and redistributing just that.
[29:20.770 --> 29:28.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I have no problem with that as long as people know that there's a film attached to the sound because it's not going to make a whole lot of sense if you just distribute that around.
[29:28.550 --> 29:32.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I do realize there are constrictions with size issues.
[29:33.030 --> 29:35.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know it was posted to Usenet.
[29:35.490 --> 29:38.570]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's out there in Divix format, but it's huge.
[29:38.710 --> 29:43.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's over two hours long, so it takes a lot of space, a lot of time to download.
[29:44.770 --> 29:58.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: And hopefully, you know, if enough people buy the actual film, because we try to keep it as low as possible price-wise, we'll be able to pay for such things as making the DVD later on in the year.
[29:58.510 --> 30:00.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because these things cost a ton of money.
[30:01.190 --> 30:05.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, if you compare this to a regular film that comes out, it's nothing.
[30:05.990 --> 30:07.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's really, you know, it's a drop in the bucket.
[30:07.750 --> 30:10.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it's kind of amazing that we were able to do this for so little.
[30:10.450 --> 30:11.690]  [SPEAKER_15]: But to us, it's a lot.
[30:13.150 --> 30:15.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I guess it's just an example of people power.
[30:15.550 --> 30:22.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Everybody pitches in a little bit, and we're able to do amazing things at a fraction of the cost of what the people who don't care would spend on it.
[30:23.330 --> 30:24.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that makes sense.
[30:25.310 --> 30:31.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: A lot of people wrote in about the commercial skipping VCRs we were talking about with different theories.
[30:31.750 --> 30:40.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: This person says that it works by detecting the rapid shifts in camera angle and the slight raise in volume that all commercials have.
[30:42.590 --> 30:43.370]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's interesting.
[30:43.630 --> 30:45.150]  [SPEAKER_15]: All commercials are louder, then.
[30:45.450 --> 30:49.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: I always thought that was, you know, an old wives' tale, but that's really the case.
[30:49.390 --> 30:50.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: All commercials are louder.
[30:51.350 --> 31:00.670]  [SPEAKER_15]: According to a manual on one of these VCRs, that's how it's explained, it's able to cut commercials like this even when the tape was recorded on a different VCR.
[31:01.390 --> 31:06.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: It takes a long time to do this, obviously, but I think it's a fascinating thing.
[31:06.310 --> 31:12.230]  [SPEAKER_15]: You stick a tape into a VCR, and automatically all the commercials are marked and skipped over whenever you watch that tape in the future.
[31:13.110 --> 31:15.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's kind of cool, you know?
[31:17.230 --> 31:27.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Of course, some people would call that thievery, such as our friend at Turner Broadcasting, who defined people who walk out of the room and don't watch commercials as thieves.
[31:27.450 --> 31:30.990]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, this is the kind of thinking we're dealing with here.
[31:32.850 --> 31:35.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, what else do we have here?
[31:39.140 --> 31:40.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, let's see.
[31:40.460 --> 31:41.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks for a great show.
[31:41.180 --> 31:43.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm a long-time listener from Copenhagen, Denmark.
[31:44.020 --> 31:48.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: This person's also writing about the commercial skipping feature on the SVHS machines.
[31:49.280 --> 31:52.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: In Denmark and the whole of Scandinavia, we have a feature called Show View.
[31:53.260 --> 31:55.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was introduced in the mid-90s.
[31:55.380 --> 31:58.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: The Show View function is used by all the broadcasting companies.
[31:58.680 --> 32:02.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: The feature is to give every single show which is being broadcasted a unique ID.
[32:03.040 --> 32:11.100]  [SPEAKER_15]: Instead of programming your VHS for a certain time to record a program, you code the number from the TV list in the newspapers or magazines.
[32:11.480 --> 32:16.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: The VCR starts recording when the broadcasting companies send out the ID number through the cable.
[32:18.060 --> 32:26.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: If the program is interrupted by commercials, another ID is sent and the VCR stops recording until that number comes up again and then the program starts.
[32:27.220 --> 32:29.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this way, all commercials are gone from your recordings.
[32:30.580 --> 32:35.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this method will also let you record on the exact correct time, even when a program is delayed for hours.
[32:35.760 --> 32:38.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Now, I know we have this thing called VCR Plus, is it?
[32:38.160 --> 32:38.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: With the numbers?
[32:39.340 --> 32:42.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think it eliminates the commercials, does it?
[32:42.480 --> 32:45.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, I think that's just a different way of encoding the channel and time information.
[32:46.080 --> 32:50.340]  [SPEAKER_13]: And also, VCR Plus can be out of whack if the show is delayed.
[32:51.200 --> 32:52.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it's not tied in...
[32:52.760 --> 32:55.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess the code isn't sent over the airwaves like it is over there.
[32:55.520 --> 32:57.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: So that makes a lot more sense to do it that way.
[32:59.080 --> 32:59.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Interesting.
[33:02.300 --> 33:03.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: And this is something interesting, too.
[33:04.060 --> 33:05.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: It involves one of our people here.
[33:06.000 --> 33:06.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: This person wrote in.
[33:06.660 --> 33:08.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: Actually, we've gotten a lot of letters like this.
[33:08.500 --> 33:09.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: First off, I love the show.
[33:09.700 --> 33:11.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: You guys are doing a great job, etc., etc.
[33:11.780 --> 33:25.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: What I'm writing about is that in a new game for the PC called Grand Theft Auto 3, produced by Rockstar Games, something very WBAI-like features as one of the radio stations you can tune into, called Chatterbox, while in the game.
[33:26.420 --> 33:32.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: What really tipped me off was a call-in from a listener who said something about Echelon and how the government does a lot of data gathering.
[33:32.300 --> 33:35.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: The real kicker was that his final comment was, Free Kevin!
[33:35.960 --> 33:39.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Also, his voice sounds remarkably similar to Bernie S.'s.
[33:39.720 --> 33:42.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just thought you'd like to know this and maybe even investigate this further.
[33:42.900 --> 33:43.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Signed, Aram.
[33:43.620 --> 33:45.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, we don't have to investigate.
[33:45.420 --> 33:47.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: We can tell you, yes, that was Bernie S.
[33:47.360 --> 33:51.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: And he was one of the voices on that game.
[33:51.740 --> 33:56.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: So if you have Grand Theft Auto 3, you will hear some of the things that Bernie S.
[33:56.680 --> 33:57.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: has to say.
[33:58.560 --> 34:01.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: On there, it's kind of neat how people are finding this.
[34:01.360 --> 34:03.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: But yeah, there's all kinds of little hidden things out there.
[34:04.180 --> 34:05.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: You just got to know to look.
[34:06.240 --> 34:08.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, our phone number, 212-209-2900.
[34:08.820 --> 34:11.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: I guess we should just go to this full switchboard here.
[34:12.320 --> 34:13.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[34:14.260 --> 34:15.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi, can you hear me?
[34:15.920 --> 34:17.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, but it sounds like you're in outer space.
[34:18.400 --> 34:18.720]  Sorry.
[34:19.180 --> 34:20.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: What are you talking on, exactly?
[34:21.340 --> 34:22.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm talking on a speakerphone.
[34:22.700 --> 34:23.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry about that.
[34:23.380 --> 34:25.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, well, it's not a very good speakerphone.
[34:25.540 --> 34:27.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'd appreciate it if you maybe came up to the phone.
[34:27.960 --> 34:28.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Could you do that?
[34:28.780 --> 34:29.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: There we go.
[34:29.400 --> 34:30.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, much better.
[34:30.480 --> 34:31.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sorry about that.
[34:31.080 --> 34:31.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: What's on your mind?
[34:32.000 --> 34:32.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: On a cell phone.
[34:33.820 --> 34:46.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: Question, you know, I was reading Nat Hentop's column, I can't remember if it was one or two weeks ago, but he was mentioning something, he was talking about Magic Lantern, which we all heard about, correct?
[34:48.360 --> 34:48.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[34:48.960 --> 34:49.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hello?
[34:49.340 --> 34:49.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[34:49.760 --> 34:50.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: We've all heard about it.
[34:50.460 --> 34:50.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[34:50.760 --> 35:02.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, he said that agents, whoever these people might be, can come in, you know, without a warrant and so forth, and tag something to your computer so they can track every key stroke.
[35:03.400 --> 35:07.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, all right, now I'm not worried about the constitutionality of this, because we all know it's unconstitutional.
[35:08.080 --> 35:11.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm more interested in, is this hardware?
[35:11.860 --> 35:12.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is this software?
[35:13.660 --> 35:28.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, you know, I think I'm only a help desk guy, but I think that I'm savvy enough to know when a, I think I'm savvy enough to be able to find a file on my computer and be able to delete it.
[35:28.180 --> 35:34.060]  [SPEAKER_06]: You know, and if it's hardware, I mean, I can always peek inside my box and find that as well.
[35:34.160 --> 35:36.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, it's not like I have a very complicated box.
[35:37.180 --> 35:39.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just wondering, what form does this Magic Lantern take?
[35:39.960 --> 35:45.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: It doesn't take the form of them actually going into your place and putting something on your computer, if that's what you're concerned about.
[35:46.740 --> 35:49.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's the way that Nat Hantock seems to describe it.
[35:49.260 --> 35:49.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[35:49.900 --> 35:51.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: I could be reading it wrong, but...
[35:51.780 --> 35:56.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, basically, I know there has been at least one case involving Magic Lantern.
[35:56.700 --> 35:59.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think it was the case of that mobster or something that...
[35:59.000 --> 36:03.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: The mobster, they actually put a piece of hardware inside his keyboard.
[36:03.480 --> 36:03.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: They did?
[36:04.200 --> 36:04.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[36:04.320 --> 36:06.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's not considered Magic Lantern, though, is it?
[36:06.200 --> 36:08.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know what it is and isn't Magic Lantern.
[36:08.800 --> 36:09.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[36:09.620 --> 36:14.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: But unless you're in the habit of looking inside your keyboard, which I, for one, am not, you wouldn't notice.
[36:15.080 --> 36:16.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: But that requires physical access.
[36:17.560 --> 36:23.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: And physical access, at least, you know, and up till now, still requires a search warrant unless I miss something.
[36:24.140 --> 36:25.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, exactly.
[36:25.200 --> 36:27.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: It requires physical access to my computer.
[36:27.840 --> 36:29.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is in Carnivore, which is attached to a server.
[36:30.180 --> 36:31.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's my ISP server.
[36:31.540 --> 36:33.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is something that's attached to my computer.
[36:33.620 --> 36:35.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Magic Lantern is something...
[36:35.000 --> 36:35.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm wondering, in what form does it take?
[36:35.940 --> 36:36.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, Magic Lantern...
[36:36.880 --> 36:41.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: My understanding of Magic Lantern is that it's sent as an attachment in email.
[36:41.400 --> 36:42.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that goes directly to you.
[36:42.840 --> 36:49.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it works kind of similar to the Outlook viruses that the FBI has been experimenting with sending out over the last few years.
[36:50.400 --> 36:51.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, did I say that out loud?
[36:51.740 --> 36:52.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sorry.
[36:54.100 --> 37:01.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it's basically the same type of thought behind that, that, okay, now something is on your computer.
[37:01.520 --> 37:02.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's running on your computer.
[37:02.380 --> 37:04.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: We can get it to do whatever we want, such as send...
[37:04.920 --> 37:07.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, this could install a key logger.
[37:07.400 --> 37:09.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Have you ever seen one of these attachments?
[37:09.220 --> 37:09.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, no.
[37:09.380 --> 37:10.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Have you ever seen any of these files?
[37:10.620 --> 37:22.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I hope somebody who gets one of these contacts us and shows us what it is so that we can totally reverse engineer it, which probably is illegal, but, you know, I'm sure people will do it anyway.
[37:23.260 --> 37:34.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because, like, as far as I can tell, anybody with half a brain doesn't download attachments that are sent to them by people who are known to them.
[37:34.500 --> 37:38.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's just the first line of defense against any sort of virus, much less any Magic Lantern.
[37:38.980 --> 37:42.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't see how this could be such a big deal.
[37:42.460 --> 37:47.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, first of all, if somebody else uses your computer and just makes one mistake, all of a sudden you've got a problem.
[37:48.820 --> 37:52.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Also, Outlook is not by any means the only way this could happen.
[37:52.400 --> 38:00.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've heard cases where people are using Internet Explorer and a program is executed based on something that a remote website sends.
[38:00.600 --> 38:05.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, believe me, there are people trying to figure out ways to run programs on your computer.
[38:05.320 --> 38:14.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: And to say that these are hackers doing this, it's a mistruth because the people with the agenda, they're the ones that will be planting things like Magic Lantern.
[38:14.920 --> 38:16.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: And that's why we all have to be looking out for this.
[38:16.960 --> 38:18.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: And if anybody gets something like this, we want to know.
[38:19.100 --> 38:20.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: It'd be great if you could find what form it takes.
[38:20.980 --> 38:22.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Otherwise, it's just a bunch of hysteria.
[38:23.680 --> 38:24.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's true.
[38:24.320 --> 38:24.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's true.
[38:24.660 --> 38:31.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: And you'll have people saying, yeah, you know, people are coming into your house and attaching things to your keyboard when it's not entirely true.
[38:31.180 --> 38:38.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, I guess it's the same effect, but, you know, it's not that kind of a thing.
[38:38.360 --> 38:40.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: And unless people see that, they'll think that they're safe.
[38:42.040 --> 38:44.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: There are a lot more insidious ways of spying on people.
[38:45.580 --> 38:46.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, right.
[38:46.140 --> 38:47.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, you know, I'm reading this.
[38:47.080 --> 38:48.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have a lot of respect for Nat Hentav.
[38:48.620 --> 38:50.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think he's great as far as constitutional issues go.
[38:51.000 --> 38:55.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: But as far as computers go, I think he's just an old man who isn't familiar with technology.
[38:56.840 --> 39:00.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: But it's precisely people like that that need to be protected as well, though.
[39:01.820 --> 39:02.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry, what did you say?
[39:02.800 --> 39:06.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's precisely those, you know, old men who have no conception of where a computer is.
[39:06.560 --> 39:09.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Their privacy on computers has to be protected as well.
[39:09.860 --> 39:11.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: And maybe they'll...
[39:11.140 --> 39:11.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, I'm not disputing.
[39:11.560 --> 39:11.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[39:11.880 --> 39:13.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just disputing the accuracy.
[39:13.460 --> 39:20.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Even if they don't get the technical issues completely right, they may very well be the ones to raise a warning flag and say something that the rest of us hadn't thought of.
[39:21.260 --> 39:21.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.
[39:21.640 --> 39:23.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I believe that this could happen.
[39:23.040 --> 39:26.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm just questioning the accuracy of his technical claims.
[39:26.620 --> 39:28.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'd like to know in what form this Magic Lantern takes.
[39:29.100 --> 39:29.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Right.
[39:29.320 --> 39:37.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure I'm way off base on some of my categorizations, too, because I haven't done the research into Magic Lantern, and I really should.
[39:37.160 --> 39:40.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: But there are so many threats going on these days, it's kind of hard to cover them all.
[39:40.580 --> 39:43.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: So if people have more information on this, by all means, send it in to us.
[39:44.060 --> 39:44.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: Call us up.
[39:44.860 --> 39:45.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Write articles about it.
[39:46.440 --> 39:48.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Information like this has to get out to people.
[39:48.120 --> 40:00.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think it would be safe to assume that they've probably pursued multiple options, that they have hardware they can embed, that they have software that they can come and install on a PC if they have physical access, and that they've worked on other attack vectors,
[40:01.080 --> 40:07.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: such as email, web, you know, using bugs in Internet Explorer, or whatever options are open to them.
[40:07.440 --> 40:07.680]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[40:08.240 --> 40:08.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[40:08.600 --> 40:08.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, thanks.
[40:08.960 --> 40:09.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'll listen to the rest on the air.
[40:09.820 --> 40:10.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks.
[40:10.220 --> 40:10.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Appreciate it.
[40:10.380 --> 40:10.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks for calling.
[40:11.140 --> 40:12.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: Interesting issues raised.
[40:12.720 --> 40:13.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: Let's go over here.
[40:13.580 --> 40:14.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[40:14.300 --> 40:14.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[40:14.780 --> 40:30.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think the point about Magic Lantern that Nat Tentoff was raising has to do with the way that warrants are served or executed, and the change is that, previously, the FBI could get a warrant, and they didn't have to serve you with the warrant.
[40:30.740 --> 40:42.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: They could surreptitiously go into your premises, and if they took anything with them when they left, they had to notify you that we came, we executed a warrant, and we took this.
[40:42.640 --> 40:57.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, there's been a change, and they do not have to notify you, and if they do, for example, use Magic Lantern to install that keystroke recorder on your computer, they don't have to tell you for 90 days after they did it that they have been in there,
[40:57.560 --> 41:03.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: and then, as a matter of fact, when the 90 days are up, they can go to a judge and ask for a further extension.
[41:03.620 --> 41:12.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, it appears that indefinitely, after installing the piece of hardware, although they would have to get a warrant, they wouldn't have to tell you that they had a warrant, or that they had executed the warrant.
[41:14.440 --> 41:20.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that is definitely a change, but, again, it's not somebody going into your house and putting something in there, correct?
[41:20.600 --> 41:21.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, sometimes it is.
[41:21.380 --> 41:21.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, it is.
[41:21.940 --> 41:22.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, it is.
[41:22.480 --> 41:22.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is it?
[41:22.900 --> 41:23.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, explain that to me.
[41:23.940 --> 41:32.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, there are cases where people can actually go into your home, install hardware on your machine, and not have to tell you about it, and get that extended, too.
[41:32.480 --> 41:41.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I don't know if there are cases where it has happened, but it is the case that they do now have the right to do that, according to the law.
[41:42.020 --> 41:42.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Unreal.
[41:42.740 --> 41:45.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: That was actually before September 11th that change was made.
[41:45.800 --> 41:51.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: They, in certain cases, no longer have to notify you that a search warrant has been executed.
[41:51.280 --> 41:53.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: In fact, they don't even have to notify the local authorities.
[41:54.780 --> 42:01.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: I also want to say that I am quite disappointed in the way that the programming changes are being instituted.
[42:01.500 --> 42:05.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: It seems antithetical to the spirit of community radio.
[42:05.660 --> 42:12.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: It seems completely top-down that a very tiny number of people make these decisions.
[42:12.240 --> 42:21.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: It seems completely unprofessional to only tell people when they show up to do their show that it's their last show, as apparently has been done to a couple of people.
[42:22.020 --> 42:28.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think there's supposed to be a program council that's supposed to talk about these changes before they happen.
[42:28.300 --> 42:30.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: And as far as I know, they haven't.
[42:31.300 --> 42:37.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think it's bad that Bernard White hasn't talked about what his vision as a program director for the station is.
[42:37.940 --> 42:40.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, I do know that tomorrow morning there's going to be a report to the listener.
[42:41.220 --> 42:44.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: So you might want to tune in then and direct some questions.
[42:44.640 --> 42:57.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: And one thing that really seems like, and this is not something new, it's happened many times on BAI, it seems like a horrible bait and switch, is that these programming changes seem to often take place right after a marathon.
[42:59.040 --> 43:01.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: But obviously, they're contemplated before the marathon.
[43:02.500 --> 43:10.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: And so the idea that someone would go on and pitch and tell people, oh, you know, if you want to support us, now's the time.
[43:10.460 --> 43:12.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then you let people do that.
[43:12.720 --> 43:18.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then two weeks later, you tell them, oh, that show that you just pledged for, it's not going to be on anymore.
[43:18.260 --> 43:31.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, what's more disturbing to me is the thinking, and I don't know if this is true, but just the mere, you know, possibility that we're thinking along the lines of a show that doesn't bring in as much money is not worthy of being on the air as much as a show that does bring in a lot of money.
[43:31.400 --> 43:37.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because, you know, commercial-type programs will probably bring in a lot more money than things geared towards a certain small group of people.
[43:38.140 --> 43:42.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: But the radio that's geared to a small group of people is just as valuable, if not more so.
[43:43.100 --> 43:45.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that is disturbing.
[43:45.100 --> 43:49.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: But that's not dishonest in the way that this seems to be fundamentally dishonest.
[43:49.320 --> 44:03.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: When the program director has a fairly good idea that he's going to take a show off, and then he lets the host of that show go on and pitch, you're really taking advantage of the people that make those pledges.
[44:03.200 --> 44:16.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: And in a way, it's not lying, but it is dishonest because he has knowledge that he keeps private in order to get people to pledge money based on a mistaken assumption that the program is going to continue.
[44:16.260 --> 44:22.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, it's happened many times at BAI, and I can't imagine how you could possibly justify that.
[44:23.200 --> 44:35.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: It seems to me that you would do that before the marathon and say, here's the change that we made, you know, so you know whatever shows that you support, at least for some significant amount of time, they're going to continue.
[44:35.280 --> 44:46.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: But to say, you know, give money to support the shows you want, and then two weeks later institute pretty significant changes in the schedule, I don't see how that can be defended.
[44:47.680 --> 44:48.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[44:48.180 --> 44:53.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, hopefully, you'll listen to the report to the listener tomorrow morning and voice your opinions there.
[44:53.580 --> 44:54.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks so much for your call.
[44:54.860 --> 44:55.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: We're going to move on.
[44:56.280 --> 44:57.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209-2900.
[44:58.000 --> 45:00.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: And yeah, you know, I understand where people are coming from.
[45:00.080 --> 45:07.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I've worked in radio for quite some time, and I don't think scheduled changes are ever greeted with unanimous joy.
[45:08.620 --> 45:13.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: But again, you know, it's how you do it, how you implement things like this, how you implement change.
[45:13.300 --> 45:15.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Obviously, you know, change has to happen at some point.
[45:17.360 --> 45:24.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: But this is a listener-sponsored station, so obviously your voice does matter, and your voice will be heard one way or another.
[45:24.880 --> 45:26.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: 212-209-2900.
[45:26.200 --> 45:26.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[45:26.540 --> 45:26.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[45:28.180 --> 45:30.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, I'd like to talk about this week's scams.
[45:31.180 --> 45:32.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: This week's scams?
[45:32.380 --> 45:32.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[45:32.600 --> 45:33.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: What have you been doing?
[45:33.520 --> 45:34.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, not me.
[45:34.700 --> 45:34.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh.
[45:35.360 --> 45:37.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Because you'd never do anything of that nature.
[45:37.060 --> 45:38.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I wouldn't do anything like the following.
[45:39.100 --> 45:51.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, when you go into a mall, you see a car, and then it says, to win this car, enter your... write down your mailing... write down your mailing address and enter in the form, and we'll have a drawing.
[45:52.220 --> 45:52.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you know what happens?
[45:53.140 --> 45:53.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, wait, wait.
[45:53.780 --> 45:54.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: Don't tell me.
[45:54.140 --> 45:59.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'll bet what happens is they take your name and address and send you junk, and you don't even win the car.
[46:00.080 --> 46:00.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[46:00.680 --> 46:08.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: And also, when you have commercials that say, go to freecreditreport.com, when you go to that creditreport.com, you give them what?
[46:08.700 --> 46:10.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Your social security number.
[46:10.400 --> 46:11.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: And guess what?
[46:12.040 --> 46:12.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Tell me.
[46:13.420 --> 46:16.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, the email just doesn't stop.
[46:16.280 --> 46:16.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[46:16.720 --> 46:19.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: And there's also a thing, 550 jobs.
[46:19.840 --> 46:20.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Need a job?
[46:20.660 --> 46:21.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Call 550 jobs.
[46:22.400 --> 46:25.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then, I mean, these are like posters that are posted by phone booths.
[46:25.540 --> 46:26.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you know, you have to be a skeptic.
[46:27.020 --> 46:28.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: You have to, like, see through all this.
[46:28.880 --> 46:29.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but you get how much you do.
[46:29.020 --> 46:29.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's what they do.
[46:29.440 --> 46:30.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: They just read the want data.
[46:30.640 --> 46:34.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: They followed it with the Times and the Post and the Daily News, and they charge you $20.
[46:35.620 --> 46:35.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Really?
[46:35.980 --> 46:37.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just reading the want data.
[46:37.780 --> 46:43.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I'd just like to mention that June 25th is going to be our special call-in for our 10th anniversary.
[46:44.160 --> 46:48.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Have you made the adjustments necessary to your calendar to compensate for us being on Wednesday?
[46:48.360 --> 46:49.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, you know what?
[46:49.100 --> 46:49.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: I forgot about that.
[46:49.940 --> 46:50.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[46:50.420 --> 46:50.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[46:50.780 --> 46:51.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wait a minute.
[46:51.200 --> 46:51.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: June 26th.
[46:51.840 --> 46:52.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: And here it is.
[46:52.420 --> 46:53.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just warned you.
[46:54.800 --> 46:55.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: June 26th.
[46:55.600 --> 46:59.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: That'll be Wednesday, June 26th at 7 p.m.
[47:00.200 --> 47:01.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Tune in for a special...
[47:01.640 --> 47:01.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[47:02.020 --> 47:02.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[47:02.200 --> 47:02.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know.
[47:02.600 --> 47:02.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: I know.
[47:03.000 --> 47:04.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm getting all kinds of dirty looks now.
[47:04.780 --> 47:06.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: And also, pay phones are becoming cocot.
[47:07.060 --> 47:07.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like cell phones.
[47:09.280 --> 47:10.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's something.
[47:10.360 --> 47:11.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Pay phones are on cell phone numbers now.
[47:12.100 --> 47:12.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[47:12.560 --> 47:14.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: In other words, you know the 50 cents thing?
[47:15.000 --> 47:15.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[47:15.660 --> 47:15.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[47:15.980 --> 47:18.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: It says, please deposit 50 cents, but that's like a cocot thing.
[47:18.840 --> 47:19.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[47:19.500 --> 47:20.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: The pay phone is...
[47:20.680 --> 47:29.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: When I did 958, I couldn't do 958, but when I dialed an 800 number that gives me the phone number, it says the number is 917 such and such.
[47:29.760 --> 47:36.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: And when I called the number, I was able to take my cell phone, call that number, and the phone rings.
[47:36.800 --> 47:37.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, the phone doesn't ring.
[47:38.040 --> 47:40.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: I pick up the phone, because I know it's ringing.
[47:40.780 --> 47:42.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's how I know that it's a phone number.
[47:42.860 --> 47:44.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: But a different number shows up.
[47:44.780 --> 47:48.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: In other words, the phone will say 212, 223, whatever.
[47:49.000 --> 47:50.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the real phone number is 917.
[47:50.740 --> 47:54.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is only in a very... like some parts of Manhattan and stuff.
[47:55.120 --> 47:59.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, 917 has been used for pot service for various providers.
[48:00.280 --> 48:09.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: Level 3 has all their... or most of their pot service lines in Manhattan that they use for their offices and also for their customers in 917.
[48:09.420 --> 48:10.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did you say pots or tops?
[48:10.980 --> 48:11.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Pots.
[48:11.700 --> 48:12.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, play those.
[48:12.480 --> 48:12.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[48:12.820 --> 48:13.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: He did say pots.
[48:14.080 --> 48:15.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Rebel, let me just ask you a question.
[48:15.260 --> 48:28.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are you aware of pay service being discontinued across the country, such as if you want to make a phone call from New York to, say, Los Angeles, using coins?
[48:28.720 --> 48:30.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are you aware of that being phased out?
[48:30.860 --> 48:31.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, thank you for reminding me.
[48:32.200 --> 48:32.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, boy.
[48:32.680 --> 48:35.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: When you deposit money, it says...
[48:35.000 --> 48:36.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: They play a recording.
[48:36.120 --> 48:36.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: They can't say this.
[48:36.980 --> 48:38.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, of course, nobody in this country talks.
[48:39.360 --> 48:39.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[48:39.740 --> 48:40.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: They play...
[48:40.180 --> 48:41.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you certainly do.
[48:41.220 --> 48:41.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[48:44.120 --> 48:44.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Coins will...
[48:45.500 --> 48:47.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: It says effective soon.
[48:47.360 --> 48:47.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[48:47.580 --> 48:50.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Coins will no longer be allowed on this...
[48:50.680 --> 48:51.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: On this...
[48:51.840 --> 48:52.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Coin phone.
[48:52.640 --> 48:54.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Coins will not be allowed on this pay phone.
[48:54.780 --> 48:56.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Please use another billing method.
[48:56.160 --> 48:59.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think I'll three-way you to an operator to...
[48:59.040 --> 49:03.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to three-way you to an AT&T operator to get some more information.
[49:03.400 --> 49:04.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Would you like to hold?
[49:04.300 --> 49:04.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: We can...
[49:04.640 --> 49:05.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right, fine.
[49:05.160 --> 49:06.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: But we can call our own operator.
[49:06.320 --> 49:06.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: But go ahead.
[49:06.780 --> 49:06.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Go ahead.
[49:06.960 --> 49:07.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: All right.
[49:07.260 --> 49:07.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hold on.
[49:07.760 --> 49:07.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[49:08.120 --> 49:09.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: This ought to be interesting.
[49:12.670 --> 49:17.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: I was upset to find out 4-1-1 is also now a pay service on a New York...
[49:20.010 --> 49:21.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Please hold for operator assistance.
[49:23.790 --> 49:25.310]  [SPEAKER_02]: AT&T, how may I help you?
[49:25.690 --> 49:26.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: Operator, do you have my phone number?
[49:27.330 --> 49:28.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: What about the phone number?
[49:28.250 --> 49:29.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: Do you have the phone number I'm calling from, operator?
[49:33.000 --> 49:33.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sorry.
[49:33.720 --> 49:35.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not allowed to give out that information.
[49:36.460 --> 49:36.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[49:36.860 --> 49:38.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like I said, we can call our own operators, Rebel.
[49:38.720 --> 49:42.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they probably sound a lot closer than that because you sound very far away.
[49:43.280 --> 49:44.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: But thanks for the info anyway.
[49:45.160 --> 49:47.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: And yeah, it's true.
[49:47.600 --> 49:47.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's true.
[49:47.880 --> 49:49.380]  [SPEAKER_15]: They're actually phasing out pay phones.
[49:49.540 --> 49:50.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you can believe that.
[49:50.560 --> 49:58.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: But then again, the rates are so outrageous that you have to wonder who puts in that kind of money to call different places.
[49:59.700 --> 50:01.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's like something like $4 for the first three minutes.
[50:02.140 --> 50:03.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Something ridiculous like that.
[50:03.600 --> 50:03.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[50:04.020 --> 50:04.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[50:05.140 --> 50:05.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, good evening.
[50:05.960 --> 50:06.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you, gentlemen?
[50:06.760 --> 50:06.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good.
[50:06.900 --> 50:08.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, God, fine.
[50:08.300 --> 50:09.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm enjoying the show.
[50:11.600 --> 50:22.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: The last couple of nights, however, a great deal of the programming has been routinely interrupted with the standard programming.
[50:22.380 --> 50:24.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: That is, with the issue of the programming.
[50:25.480 --> 50:33.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I am hoping that this will be a situation where rational discourse will prevail instead of panic.
[50:34.700 --> 50:43.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because last night, I think we really sunk to an all-time low in terms of some of the criticisms that were directed.
[50:44.120 --> 50:50.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, let me just ask you a favor that we not make this into any kind of, you know, personal thing as to who said what, who did what.
[50:50.980 --> 50:55.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, I'm not going to do that, because your previous callers have already done that sufficiently.
[50:56.280 --> 50:58.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that's part of my point.
[50:58.280 --> 51:05.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't think that's rational and just discourse to remit people to be broadsided without the full scope of the story.
[51:05.460 --> 51:06.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: We are still very fragile.
[51:07.400 --> 51:15.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And from what I've been hearing, there are persons who, for one reason or another, are endeavoring to exploit that because of their discontent.
[51:15.140 --> 51:23.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I believe, yes, there are managerial breakdowns in an organization like WBAI in particular, because it's not General Electric.
[51:23.440 --> 51:36.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the whole notion that we need to make a tremendous brouhaha out of this to the point that we want to make certain individuals sacrificial lamb is unjust.
[51:36.560 --> 51:38.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Of course, the management can speak for itself.
[51:38.740 --> 51:54.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: But as a listener, I'm encouraging that we have a rational discourse about it as a family and stay very tight when your own show indicates, as well as others like Levine, that we are under assault all the time, externally.
[51:54.740 --> 51:55.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Absolutely.
[51:55.440 --> 52:01.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I would hope that the listeners would bear that in mind and listen to the reports that are coming on.
[52:01.060 --> 52:19.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I understand tomorrow about these program changes, but I'm afraid that when it gets to the point where shows are beginning to condemn other ethnic groups, and basically what you have is a bunch of crabs in a basket, then we're in serious trouble.
[52:19.480 --> 52:21.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: So let's all just keep cool.
[52:21.620 --> 52:23.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll work through program changes.
[52:23.680 --> 52:26.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Major networks do it, and we'll be all right.
[52:26.300 --> 52:28.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: But let's keep the discourse rational.
[52:28.360 --> 52:28.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[52:28.620 --> 52:28.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[52:28.980 --> 52:29.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks.
[52:29.320 --> 52:31.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks for saying that better than I was able to say it.
[52:32.880 --> 52:36.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that's what we have to remember, is that we're on the same side here.
[52:36.680 --> 52:41.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is a dysfunctional family of sorts, but we have issues to work out.
[52:41.720 --> 52:49.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: We have changes that need to be made and discussed and things like that, and that's why your voices are very important.
[52:49.000 --> 52:52.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: So please keep the feedback coming in, and it does make a difference.
[52:53.980 --> 52:54.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[52:54.660 --> 52:55.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[52:55.800 --> 52:56.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hold on.
[52:57.420 --> 52:59.040]  [SPEAKER_15]: So I'm holding the phone for someone else.
[52:59.260 --> 52:59.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, no, no.
[52:59.880 --> 53:07.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: I just, I hate that feedback thing, so I cover the thing while I run 10th of a centimeter to the phone, to the radio.
[53:08.760 --> 53:11.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: Report to the listener, I heard is 8 a.m.
[53:11.860 --> 53:11.860]  tomorrow.
[53:12.100 --> 53:12.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is it 8 a.m.?
[53:12.720 --> 53:12.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[53:13.020 --> 53:18.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, so a lot of people might think they'll wake up at 9 and then check in, and they would have missed it.
[53:18.180 --> 53:23.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: And yeah, last night the show was so many invectives thrown from...
[53:23.180 --> 53:28.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Again, again, let's not focus on a particular person or a show or anything like that.
[53:28.140 --> 53:36.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, so the idea is to phase out the phones by first not taking care of them and then getting other companies in and deregulation.
[53:36.400 --> 53:37.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: And you know what?
[53:37.440 --> 53:48.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: I have to tell you, when I was paying $6.40 for my phone years ago, and I had all my long distance and everything on it, and I talked to Ma Bell, it wasn't such a bad thing.
[53:49.620 --> 53:55.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I hate the fact that when you call 411 from home, I know now you have to pay for it.
[53:55.940 --> 53:57.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: I just don't use the machines anymore.
[53:58.020 --> 53:59.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm learning how to do without phones.
[54:01.140 --> 54:10.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, but when you call here, I just wanted to put out that the 411 information is so limited now.
[54:11.140 --> 54:16.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: Now you just get a machine, and the machine doesn't understand you, asks you about four times, I'm sorry.
[54:16.540 --> 54:19.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't really understand what you're saying.
[54:19.360 --> 54:20.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, and they put the blame on you.
[54:21.180 --> 54:23.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: They make it so that you're the one that's got a problem.
[54:23.440 --> 54:26.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: I can't find, I can't figure out what the hell you're saying.
[54:26.740 --> 54:36.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: You know, and so, you know, you go around that about four times, then you get somebody, and then, oh, now they don't work on the weekends.
[54:36.420 --> 54:37.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's the other thing.
[54:37.880 --> 54:39.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's 800 information you're talking about, right?
[54:39.700 --> 54:40.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, we're in the Hamptons.
[54:40.760 --> 54:41.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[54:41.460 --> 54:42.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, the 800 information.
[54:42.920 --> 54:43.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: Thank you.
[54:43.700 --> 54:48.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it's totally unfair, too, because I believe they use a service called Tell Me.
[54:48.720 --> 54:49.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, yeah.
[54:49.220 --> 54:49.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: That basically...
[54:49.940 --> 54:51.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: And tells you nothing.
[54:51.360 --> 54:57.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, you're called up, and you're supposed to say the name of a big corporation, and it immediately recognizes you and gives you the number.
[54:57.920 --> 55:02.440]  [SPEAKER_15]: But those small organizations that have 800 numbers, they don't subscribe to that service.
[55:02.540 --> 55:04.900]  [SPEAKER_15]: They don't pay the extra money to be recognized like that.
[55:05.020 --> 55:07.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: What if you need their phone number over the weekend or at night?
[55:07.640 --> 55:08.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: You just won't get it now.
[55:08.940 --> 55:12.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, more than that, there are many different 800 services.
[55:12.340 --> 55:13.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: Maybe this is what you're saying.
[55:13.980 --> 55:17.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: And forget about Tell Me, they're never listed ever.
[55:18.160 --> 55:26.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: So what I'm finding is that the 800 service is really not as valuable as it used to be because you can never find who you're looking for.
[55:27.280 --> 55:28.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Often, I find this is true.
[55:29.140 --> 55:30.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I don't know.
[55:31.000 --> 55:39.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: Between that and the brain tumor radiation from the cell phones and the cell tower across from my bedroom, I don't know where the hell to go, guys.
[55:39.580 --> 55:41.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, just write letters and read books.
[55:41.900 --> 55:43.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: Actually, I'm doing that.
[55:43.120 --> 55:44.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: People are really surprised and happy.
[55:45.860 --> 55:48.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they call me, and we're developing a whole new relationship.
[55:48.880 --> 55:49.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[55:49.240 --> 55:49.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right.
[55:49.500 --> 55:51.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, it's nice talking to you, and I'm really glad you folks are there.
[55:51.900 --> 55:52.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[55:52.400 --> 55:53.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, we won't be here next week.
[55:53.580 --> 55:53.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: Remember that.
[55:54.280 --> 55:55.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: What's your new time?
[55:55.260 --> 55:56.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm writing down all these new times.
[55:56.640 --> 55:58.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wednesday at 7 p.m.
[55:58.760 --> 55:59.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Are you okay with that?
[55:59.900 --> 56:00.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, we're fine.
[56:00.560 --> 56:04.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Actually, I have nothing but praise for the way it was dealt with with us.
[56:04.160 --> 56:06.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: It could have been a little bit more warning, I think.
[56:06.780 --> 56:09.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: It would have been like two weeks to deal with this instead of one.
[56:09.360 --> 56:16.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: But originally, we were offered the drive time slot, and it just didn't work for us as the people putting the show together.
[56:16.700 --> 56:19.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they were kind enough to move us to seven.
[56:19.960 --> 56:23.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: So, you know, it troubles me that other people haven't been dealt with as fairly.
[56:23.940 --> 56:28.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I, you know, I stress people stick together on this and don't give up on anything.
[56:28.360 --> 56:29.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just talk it through.
[56:29.840 --> 56:30.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, keep on fighting for what you want.
[56:30.800 --> 56:44.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: And also, I was thinking that maybe there's a possibility that we can have on staff, I don't know if this is the right word, you correct me, please, if it isn't, an ombudsman, someone everybody can go to who smooths out the problems.
[56:45.320 --> 56:45.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[56:45.520 --> 56:53.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: And somebody, like, for instance, last night, those people should have been able to call somebody and say, how come we weren't informed in a way that makes sense?
[56:53.800 --> 56:57.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then have, that person could have gotten in touch with the right parties.
[56:57.680 --> 57:07.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think that would really help because there are so many factions and so many people, and a lot of us have very, very tender nervous systems.
[57:08.860 --> 57:11.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: So that's my idea to everybody.
[57:11.000 --> 57:14.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: Maybe other folks will bring it up at meetings at the bylaws and such like that.
[57:14.940 --> 57:15.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: And thanks again.
[57:15.680 --> 57:15.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: Thank you.
[57:15.800 --> 57:16.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: Have a nice night.
[57:16.460 --> 57:16.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: Bye-bye.
[57:17.060 --> 57:25.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: And just to very quickly go over some of the changes, at this time next week, this is very hard to read.
[57:25.820 --> 57:26.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm trying.
[57:27.180 --> 57:29.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: This time next week, you'll hear Asia Pacific Forum.
[57:30.740 --> 57:32.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mondays at eight, we'll be Housing Notebook.
[57:33.140 --> 57:34.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wednesdays at eight, Personal Computer Show.
[57:35.180 --> 57:37.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: And Thursdays at eight, where we live.
[57:39.000 --> 57:40.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm not sure it's on Fridays.
[57:41.360 --> 57:42.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: And 7 p.m.
[57:42.960 --> 57:47.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: slot, Building Bridges on Mondays, Tahrir on Tuesdays at seven.
[57:48.660 --> 57:51.780]  [SPEAKER_15]: Explorations on, actually, no, that's us on Wednesdays, Off the Hook on Wednesdays.
[57:51.800 --> 57:52.320]  [SPEAKER_15]: That was a switch.
[57:53.080 --> 57:55.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: And Crossroads on Thursdays.
[57:57.080 --> 57:58.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: So yeah, there's a lot of changes.
[57:58.800 --> 58:04.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: And hopefully this will be posted on our website and people will know about it so that there won't be any more surprises.
[58:05.120 --> 58:07.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: See if we can fit in one more phone call.
[58:07.460 --> 58:08.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good evening.
[58:08.140 --> 58:08.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: You're on the air.
[58:10.220 --> 58:10.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello.
[58:10.840 --> 58:11.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, go ahead.
[58:11.740 --> 58:12.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi, it's Bernie S.
[58:12.540 --> 58:13.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Bernie, how are you?
[58:13.380 --> 58:13.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, good.
[58:13.960 --> 58:20.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just wanted to suggest that people attending this Friday's 2600 meeting, it's this coming Friday, isn't it?
[58:20.960 --> 58:21.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, it is.
[58:21.860 --> 58:30.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ah, well, now with the new restrictions apparently lifted on the FBI, we're showing up at public gatherings.
[58:30.800 --> 58:40.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think 2600 meeting attendees should look for and welcome all the new FBI agents that are showing up at meetings now without restriction.
[58:40.620 --> 58:42.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, what's an appropriate way to welcome a federal agent?
[58:43.120 --> 58:44.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a good question.
[58:44.660 --> 58:46.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe showing up with a camera?
[58:46.600 --> 58:48.220]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, yeah, cameras are always fun.
[58:48.340 --> 58:50.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's always nice to have something to remember the occasion by.
[58:51.100 --> 58:54.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure, maybe get it autographed and that sort of thing.
[58:54.320 --> 58:57.680]  [SPEAKER_16]: A special greeting to any FBI agents who may be listening right now.
[58:57.700 --> 58:58.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Why would they be listening now?
[59:06.300 --> 59:16.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: In the past, they've resorted to the Secret Service and other federal agencies, haven't they resorted to using, like, mall security guards as, you know, confederates to...
[59:17.080 --> 59:18.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, that's true.
[59:18.620 --> 59:20.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: To do the things that they can't legally do.
[59:20.960 --> 59:24.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, now they can... now all the restrictions are down, apparently.
[59:25.980 --> 59:33.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: I just want to make sure that these gentlemen and women are appropriately welcomed at the meetings this weekend.
[59:33.280 --> 59:40.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: And meetings will be taking place throughout the world this Friday, coming up at default time of 5 p.m.
[59:40.120 --> 59:47.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Check www.2600.com slash meetings for more specific information as to meetings near you.
[59:47.640 --> 59:49.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: And, Bernie, I guess we'll see you sometime.
[59:49.900 --> 59:51.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: Certainly we'll see you at H2K2.
[59:51.500 --> 59:53.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yes, and probably before that.
[59:53.240 --> 59:53.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good.
[59:53.820 --> 59:54.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[59:54.260 --> 59:55.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, thanks for calling.
[59:55.980 --> 59:56.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Great.
[59:56.500 --> 59:56.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you.
[59:56.840 --> 59:57.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Have a good night.
[59:57.480 --> 59:57.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: You too.
[59:57.760 --> 01:00:01.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: And we're just about out of time now, and this is it for us.
[01:00:01.320 --> 01:00:04.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is the end of our show at this time slot.
[01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:07.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'll be back again next Wednesday, not tomorrow.
[01:00:07.900 --> 01:00:10.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: A week from tomorrow, 7 p.m.
[01:00:10.100 --> 01:00:10.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: to 8 p.m.
[01:00:10.660 --> 01:00:11.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: That is our new slot.
[01:00:12.900 --> 01:00:22.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Until then, stay alert, and don't be afraid by all the things that are happening, because you still have us, just on a different time.
[01:00:22.560 --> 01:00:22.840]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good night.
[01:00:37.620 --> 01:00:38.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bye-bye.
[01:00:38.920 --> 01:00:39.660]  Sure-do-do.
[01:00:40.140 --> 01:00:41.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why is that yo?
[01:00:41.920 --> 01:00:42.760]  No
[01:00:50.440 --> 01:00:51.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: time.
[01:00:51.900 --> 01:01:07.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: Don't you know the world is of love and okay.
[01:01:10.490 --> 01:01:15.830]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now is the time to be strong.
[01:01:16.550 --> 01:01:19.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: We can't go wrong.
[01:01:42.600 --> 01:01:45.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: I had never before seen an African.
[01:01:46.480 --> 01:01:50.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: Chained to a post in their yard, they kept a black slave.
[01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:55.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: They made him sleep outside in the bitter cold with only a thin blanket to cover.
[01:01:56.210 --> 01:01:59.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: They whipped him savagely for the slightest infraction and fed him.
[01:01:59.860 --> 01:02:05.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: Only the most vile scraps, rotting garbage that even their hogs would have refused to eat.
[01:02:05.780 --> 01:02:13.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Trumpet of Freedom, the saga of John Brown, will be performed as a fundraiser for WBAI, featuring the performance of Norman Thomas Marshall.
[01:02:13.820 --> 01:02:21.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: It will be presented at the Joseph Papp Public Theatre, 425 Lafayette Street, on Monday, June 17 at 8pm.
[01:02:21.320 --> 01:02:25.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: It is my privilege to hang by the neck until dead.
[01:02:25.180 --> 01:02:32.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: I am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away but by blood.