Off The Hook - 2002-08-28

[00:00.620 --> 00:04.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Congressman Udall calls the bill with its amendments a work in progress.
[00:05.080 --> 00:09.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: For Free Speech Radio News, I'm Leslie Clark in Albuquerque.
[00:13.420 --> 00:15.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Free Speech Radio News.
[00:15.800 --> 00:17.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Deepa Fernandez.
[00:23.320 --> 00:24.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: Thank you.
[00:24.340 --> 00:26.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: Free Speech Radio News is always predictable.
[00:27.260 --> 00:33.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: This is radio station WBAI in New York, where the time is 7 o'clock.
[00:33.200 --> 00:36.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: And that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[00:40.480 --> 01:02.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: The telephone keeps ringing So I ripped it off the wall I cut myself while shaving Now I can't make a call We couldn't get much worse It would, but the best is paid for worse I hope that's understood, but the best is paid for worse And
[01:55.920 --> 02:02.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: a good evening to everybody.
[02:02.340 --> 02:03.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: The program is Off the Hook.
[02:04.020 --> 02:06.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm Manuel Goldstein here with you tonight, and...
[02:08.280 --> 02:21.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, we've just found out that supposedly we're not going to be on next week or the week after that Which I find pretty damn distressing because, well, we were here for 9-11 last year We'd like to be here for 9-11 this year.
[02:21.980 --> 02:34.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm also told that neither of these things is written in stone, so it's possible that we might be here next week And it's possible we might be here the week after that, or one, or the other, or neither, or both Nobody seems to really know for sure But,
[02:34.060 --> 02:50.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: um, in case we're not here for 9-11 We've, uh, quickly assembled people who were together a year ago, uh, on 9-11 Um, to, uh, to remember what things were like back then And, uh, Ken Gale is here Hi How you doing?
[02:51.120 --> 02:52.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: You were here at 9-11?
[02:52.840 --> 02:54.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, sure was You remember that, right?
[02:54.560 --> 03:08.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: I, uh, I wrote, uh, several pages about it, which I put on the, the comic book radio show dot website Um, I just, you know, walking through that dust and realizing you're breathing people How can you not be moved?
[03:08.160 --> 03:17.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, and, you know, I was compelled to write about it And, Mike, you were there, too Yes In fact, we somehow made it downtown that day That, that was, uh, an experience And, Jim, you weren't there, were you?
[03:17.760 --> 03:21.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: I, uh, you, uh, you, uh, you have a bad memory I was across Were you there?
[03:22.480 --> 03:25.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I was heading for the borders Were you at the station?
[03:26.320 --> 03:27.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, the radio station?
[03:27.320 --> 03:40.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: The radio station, yeah No, but in the morning, I was across the street and got the hell out of there Well, I wasn't there in the morning, you see, so I don't remember where you were It was much more, uh, interesting And you had scheduled guests that day And they were here Scheduled guests,
[03:40.520 --> 03:56.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: just like I've been scheduling things for two weeks from now And, uh, yeah, right It's the story of my life And, uh, since we moved to Wednesday, I think, uh, we're preempted more times than we're not But, uh, anyway, that was our recollection on 9-11 And maybe in two weeks we'll get to do more Well,
[03:57.040 --> 04:08.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: we also have a show we planned for tonight, too So we can't really give that, uh, too much of a short shrift I mean, well, we can come back into this now and then But, uh, since we already had things planned Uh, we're gonna have to sort of, uh, alternate And,
[04:09.020 --> 04:23.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: of course, we want to hear from listeners It's gonna be kind of hard to do if, uh, if we've just got a satellite feed all day long But, uh, I'd like to hear from listeners And if not in two weeks, then I guess tonight And if not tonight, then three weeks from now Or maybe next week,
[04:23.360 --> 04:31.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: or... I don't know I don't know You need a compass to figure out what's on the air here Uh, okay, what else is going on?
[04:31.120 --> 04:32.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, what is going on?
[04:32.080 --> 04:35.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: We haven't really talked about anything that, uh, is going on Uh, Mike, what's up at Columbia?
[04:35.820 --> 04:36.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Anything, anything fun?
[04:36.940 --> 04:53.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: There's people in lime green t-shirts That's really breaking news there It's very disturbing Uh-huh I advise listeners to stay out of the neighborhood for the next week or so You're always advising people to stay out of places Or not to go places Or not to do things Or not to buy things Or,
[04:53.200 --> 05:14.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: uh, you know, to basically not partake in various things Well, I assume that, you know, people by default will do things Uh-huh Do exciting things And I just want to warn people when they may need to be warned Okay, well, that's, uh, that's what you're here for And thank you for doing that Um,
[05:14.640 --> 05:15.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Jim, anything on your end?
[05:15.800 --> 05:23.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: I see you have a magazine there You might want to put that down while we do the show Well, no, no, no This is related to the show, amazingly Uh, how is that related to the show?
[05:23.920 --> 05:43.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, it, it, what I have in my hand Is the, uh, October 2002 issue of, of all things Playboy Uh-huh Uh, I, I admit it I am heterosexual But anyway The point is that there's something in the Playboy forum, uh, called You Be The Judge 2 Uh-huh Free speech or not free speech Uh,
[05:43.620 --> 06:02.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: this is the second time they've done this They give you, uh, little, uh, anecdotes, incidents, reports on, uh, various incidents of supposed free speech or free speech abrogation And you decide what the court decided And, uh, one of the things that they mention is the DVD,
[06:02.780 --> 06:07.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: D-E-C-S-S case It's about two years late though, isn't it?
[06:07.560 --> 06:21.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: I mean, this happened a while ago Yeah, but it's, it's Playboy It takes a while to trickle into a mass market magazine Ah, yeah, okay Well, by that logic, the people, uh, in the, in the pictures are all old and withered by now Well, they're older, but they're not withered Okay,
[06:21.680 --> 06:29.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: well They're young enough to be your daughter So, okay, fine I guess if you want to read a paragraph about something that happened two years ago, pick up Playboy Do you want me to read it?
[06:29.580 --> 06:35.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: And tell yourself that's why you got it Um, no, you don't need to read it We've all talked about it many times So, uh, what, what, what issue is it?
[06:35.580 --> 06:35.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's the what?
[06:36.020 --> 06:38.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the October 2002 issue How's October?
[06:38.600 --> 06:51.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's not even September yet Uh, Playboy is way in advance, like most magazines Yeah, ahead of their time No, that makes no sense to me I publish a magazine I like for the magazine to be out during the time that it says in the cover What is the, what is the point of having a magazine out two months before it?
[06:51.760 --> 07:02.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: I can answer that If you go back in time No, if you, if you look back And, and, you know, 25 years from now We see the October issue of Playboy We're going to think that was out in October We're going to read whatever articles are out in there Why don't we talk to the publisher?
[07:02.500 --> 07:14.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we're going to assume that they're, they're two years out of date Not two years and two months out of date I can answer that question Yes Uh, the reason it is post-dated, as it were Is because that's when it's supposed to go off sale The, the, uh,
[07:14.360 --> 07:31.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: theory is that That will stay on the, on the newsstands until the end of October So it gets an extra month of shelf time It's been out since August Right Uh, comic books predate by three months for the same reason Yeah, but isn't that kind of deceiving?
[07:31.300 --> 07:43.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes I mean, to say something is a month that it's not Well, I mean, capitalists deceive every once in a while Let's, let's say that's Time magazine Let's say that's, that's a news magazine And you look at the date And you look back, you know Actually,
[07:43.780 --> 07:59.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Time magazine is another example Because, uh, time is a weekly And the date on time is actually after, uh, the date that you buy it Village Voice does that too Village Voice, yes, I was about to say Okay, well, 2600 does not do that In fact, if anything,
[07:59.180 --> 08:13.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: we come out after, after we say that it is Emmanuel, you're special Well, we also don't have advertising Maybe that's got something to do with it It's all shelf time Okay, well, let's get on to some, some news And we have a special feature too That we,
[08:13.400 --> 08:30.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: uh, we want to, uh, play for people as well Which I think will be a lot of fun Uh, we have a lot of people write in About the ISP we mentioned last week That, uh, was banning the RIAA Uh, from accessing its site Um, RIA being, of course, the recording industry of America Um,
[08:30.740 --> 08:51.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: and they have, um, they have pushed for legislation That would basically immunize them from any prosecution If they were to vandalize computers of people they perceived As doing something that violated copyright So if they saw you downloading a song Or if they saw you offering a song on your website Or something that they didn't approve of They could go in and ping flood you off the net They
[08:51.240 --> 09:05.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: could, uh, uh, somehow invade your computer And cause all kinds of problems And they wouldn't have to worry about any kind of prosecution It would be completely legitimate Shows you where their, their morals are Anyway, a particular internet service provider Banned,
[09:05.160 --> 09:18.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: uh, the RIAA from, um, any access to their network We found out their name is Information Wave Technologies Um, but, uh, something interesting about this Uh, they also...
[09:18.040 --> 09:38.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'll read you the press release And we can, we can explore this a little bit Information Wave Technologies has announced It will actively deny the Recording Industry Association of America From accessing the contents of its network Earlier this year, the RIAA announced its new plan To access computers without owner's consent For the sake of protecting its assets Information Wave believes this
[09:38.060 --> 10:00.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: policy Puts its customers at risk of unintentional damage Corporate espionage and invasion of privacy To say the least Information Wave will also deploy peer-to-peer clients On the Nutella network From its Security Research and Development network Which will offer files with popular song titles Derived from the Billboard Top 100 No copyright violations will take place These files will merely have
[10:00.740 --> 10:23.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: arbitrary sizes Similar to the length of a 3-4 minute MP3 audio file Encoded at 128 kbps Clients which connect to our peer-to-peer clients And then, afterwards, attempt to illegally access the network Will be immediately blacklisted from Information Wave's network The data collected will be actively maintained And distributed from our network operations site And this is an example of somebody
[10:23.540 --> 10:28.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: earning my respect And losing it immediately thereafter I mean, what are these people doing?
[10:28.480 --> 10:37.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: They're putting up fake songs Keeping track of people who illegally access them First of all, if they're up there And you access them That's not illegal, alright?
[10:37.320 --> 11:02.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: It might be illegal for you to put them there And try to share something that's copywritten But for somebody to go and try to download something, yes I get the impression that this honeypot is directed at the RIAA In case the RIAA attacks from a domain that isn't under-registered to their name They will know it by the fact that they will have access to these honeypots Everybody else knows it's a
[11:02.440 --> 11:03.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: honeypot How do they know that?
[11:04.260 --> 11:05.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was just announced in a press release?
[11:06.040 --> 11:08.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, yeah, but how are people who don't read the press release going to know that?
[11:09.020 --> 11:10.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: How are they going to keep from being blacklisted?
[11:10.580 --> 11:36.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: They tell all their clientele, don't access this And then anybody who's trying to access their stuff Their clients of their subscriber stuff They're advertising their stuff on Nutella So I assume people are going to be accessing it That actually want to download the songs And then they're going to get their entire domain blacklisted as a result Why don't we write them and ask exactly what this is
[11:36.800 --> 11:36.800]  intended?
[11:36.800 --> 11:49.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: We'll just try to download something and see what happens No, no, no, write them and ask You can tell them the flaw if this is directed at the RIA Well, I'm sure they know the flaw, but here's a letter Go ahead and send them email and let us know what happens Fortunately,
[11:49.820 --> 12:15.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: this is only the Billboard Top 100 song So the rest of the musical world is safe That's right Just wait for it to fall off the Top 100 And you won't have to worry Let's see, here's some listener mail The other day on a commercial news channel I think it was CNN There was a PSA type commercial In that there was no product connected with the ad It was one of those ad council things In it,
[12:15.460 --> 12:36.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: a youth approaches a librarian with a list of books and says he cannot locate the books The librarian looks at him and says those books are no longer available Everyone in the library stops what they are doing And looks at the young man Then the librarian asks him for his name Everyone in the library leaves and there are two men dressed in dark suits They approach the youth And the ad wraps up
[12:36.860 --> 12:40.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: with some on-screen text to the effect of Cherish your freedoms, exercise your freedoms, etc.
[12:42.640 --> 13:08.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: Interesting And I did some research into that In fact, there's a link www.adcouncil.org Slash campaigns Slash campaign Underscore For Underscore Freedom And in there you can actually look at that and a bunch of others This one is interesting because If you look at it You think to yourself This is what's happening This is what's being done today By the Bush administration You see librarians being
[13:08.480 --> 13:24.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: intimidated into Turning over a list of People who take out certain books And there's generally This fear and suspicion in the air If you look at the other ones, though The other public service announcements that are in that library You realize this is more of Kind of like a flag-waving type of mentality At work here,
[13:24.960 --> 13:49.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: literally Basically, there's another one Having to do with people Going to church And having to hide behind Telephone poles and things to get there Because this is no longer America It's some atheistic state There's another one where There are no words spoken Just a row of houses are seen Saying that on September 11th Terrorists tried to change America And then fade to black Fade in again Nothing
[13:49.300 --> 14:12.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: but flags in front of the houses They succeeded So it's not exactly the message Saying that bad things are happening to us As a result of all this homeland security nonsense But more that we have nothing to worry about From ourselves That all the threats are coming from Outside our borders I don't know I think maybe there is some subtlety going on there There might be another message being sent,
[14:12.700 --> 14:14.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: but who's to say?
[14:15.640 --> 14:20.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Speaking of libraries, I had an interesting experience at the New York Public Library a few days ago.
[14:20.900 --> 14:26.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: At the Science and Industry and Business Library at 34th Street, the former B.
[14:26.220 --> 14:29.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Altman building, you can get computer time to access the net.
[14:30.020 --> 14:35.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I was thinking that since you have to sign up with your name and then present ID, this is not good.
[14:35.800 --> 14:46.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I have some ID for various clubs, I won't go into exactly what they are, which has a picture and an ID number or an alias or whatever.
[14:47.160 --> 14:51.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I typed in ID number and I typed in the number.
[14:52.140 --> 14:59.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I'm sitting down at the computer, 15 minutes in, they come and they say, sir, do you have ID?
[15:00.140 --> 15:05.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: And then as I show the ID, they look and they say, I'm sorry, sir, this is unacceptable.
[15:05.280 --> 15:08.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to give us a name and ID.
[15:08.980 --> 15:13.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: And I said, no, I would like to preserve my anonymity.
[15:13.220 --> 15:14.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they would not let me do that.
[15:15.060 --> 15:17.780]  [SPEAKER_10]: They insisted I show some sort of ID with my name on it.
[15:18.620 --> 15:19.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I left.
[15:19.480 --> 15:20.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: This is to use a computer.
[15:21.060 --> 15:24.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: This is to use a computer linked to the net at the New York Public Library.
[15:26.100 --> 15:26.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: Interesting.
[15:26.840 --> 15:33.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: And if you went in there and simply read a newspaper, you wouldn't have to show any kind of ID whatsoever, would you?
[15:33.320 --> 15:33.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: No.
[15:34.340 --> 15:34.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[15:34.800 --> 15:36.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll try that argument next time I try this.
[15:38.120 --> 15:42.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: We should think of what they will say in encountering that.
[15:42.180 --> 15:45.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: They'll probably say something like, well, you could send information on the internet.
[15:45.320 --> 15:47.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: You can't send information reading a book.
[15:47.360 --> 15:47.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay?
[15:47.860 --> 15:48.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, no, that's an argument.
[15:49.020 --> 15:50.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the point is, they're asking for ID.
[15:51.020 --> 15:53.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm trying to tell them why they don't need to know my name.
[15:54.920 --> 15:57.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you mailed a letter, you don't have to present ID to the mailbox.
[15:58.600 --> 15:59.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's sending information.
[15:59.580 --> 16:01.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: If it's over a pound, you do, actually.
[16:01.520 --> 16:02.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have to mail it from the post office.
[16:03.000 --> 16:03.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's what I don't understand.
[16:03.920 --> 16:09.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: All throughout the city, there's little notes on the mailbox saying, do not put packages in here beyond a certain weight or size.
[16:10.100 --> 16:10.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: Right.
[16:10.420 --> 16:11.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: What happens if you do?
[16:11.940 --> 16:13.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: Because they easily fit in there.
[16:13.180 --> 16:14.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: It goes back to the return address.
[16:15.020 --> 16:16.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: What does that prove?
[16:16.140 --> 16:17.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: Or actually goes to the Dead Letter Mountain office.
[16:17.280 --> 16:18.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: What does that prove?
[16:18.080 --> 16:19.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: It still is in the system.
[16:19.400 --> 16:21.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: What if your return address is where you want to send it to?
[16:21.640 --> 16:22.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[16:22.000 --> 16:23.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ooh, what a trick.
[16:23.420 --> 16:24.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, it actually goes to the Dead Letter office.
[16:25.180 --> 16:28.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I thought it did that, but I remember reading that it goes to the Dead Letter.
[16:28.920 --> 16:31.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: So if you have an enemy in the Dead Letter office, you're set.
[16:31.280 --> 16:33.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: I tried returning something to L.L.
[16:33.100 --> 16:34.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bean for my mother through the post office.
[16:35.820 --> 16:44.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: I had to actually re-wrap it after crossing out her name because my ID was not her ID.
[16:44.960 --> 16:45.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: I am not her.
[16:45.820 --> 16:50.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Even though the address is a match on the ID.
[16:51.240 --> 16:52.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: Your life is a living hell sometimes.
[16:53.300 --> 16:54.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: In its minor ways, yes.
[16:54.760 --> 17:14.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: The secretive federal court that approves spying on terrorist suspects in the United States has refused to give the Justice Department broad new powers, saying the government had misused the law and misled the court dozens of times.
[17:14.260 --> 17:19.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's according to an extraordinary legal ruling released on August 22nd.
[17:19.660 --> 17:21.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: This according to the Washington Post.
[17:21.880 --> 17:35.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: A May 17th opinion by the court that oversees the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, PISA, alleges that Justice Department and FBI officials supplied erroneous information to the court in more than 75 applications for search warrants and wiretaps,
[17:35.980 --> 17:39.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: including one signed by then-FBI Director Louis J.
[17:39.800 --> 17:39.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: Free.
[17:41.120 --> 17:43.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's amazing that his name is Free, isn't it?
[17:43.720 --> 17:47.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: I mean, every day I wake up and I just marvel at that, among other things.
[17:48.020 --> 17:54.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: Authorities also improperly shared intelligence information with agents and prosecutors handling criminal cases in New York on at least four occasions.
[17:56.660 --> 18:01.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: Given such problems, the court found that new procedures proposed by Attorney General John D.
[18:01.720 --> 18:11.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Ashcroft in March would have given prosecutors too much control over counterintelligence investigations and would have effectively allowed the government to misuse intelligence information for criminal cases.
[18:12.120 --> 18:15.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: So, um, that's an interesting development right there.
[18:15.660 --> 18:18.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is a court that basically the government can do whatever they want.
[18:18.860 --> 18:19.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[18:19.160 --> 18:21.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: And now even this court is saying they're going too far.
[18:22.060 --> 18:22.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, this is...
[18:22.920 --> 18:24.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: You have to wonder.
[18:25.640 --> 18:26.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: Ah, crazy.
[18:27.420 --> 18:28.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: Let's see.
[18:28.280 --> 18:29.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: How about this?
[18:29.320 --> 18:31.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: This is a fun story to cheer everybody up.
[18:32.820 --> 18:41.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: Trying to get a head start on cracking crimes before they happen by setting up a database that contains a list of people who officers believe are likely to break the law.
[18:42.740 --> 18:45.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: I couldn't make this stuff up, really.
[18:45.680 --> 18:53.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: Defense attorneys and the American Civil Liberties Union oppose the database, which isn't exactly very hard to do.
[18:53.960 --> 18:58.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: It lists names, addresses, and photographs of the potential suspects, many of whom have clean slates.
[18:59.700 --> 19:01.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: I want to know how to get on this list.
[19:01.360 --> 19:04.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: I mean, what do you have to do to become a suspect before you even do anything?
[19:05.060 --> 19:09.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: You probably have to be dark-skinned and live in the inner city and poor.
[19:09.860 --> 19:11.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think writing in should do it, really.
[19:12.440 --> 19:13.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, maybe broadcasting.
[19:13.860 --> 19:15.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: Complaining about it might be enough to do it.
[19:15.760 --> 19:19.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: The precise grounds for putting a person on the list aren't clear.
[19:19.720 --> 19:28.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: But, since the system was introduced in Wilmington in June, most of the 200 people included in the file have been minorities from poor, high-crime neighborhoods.
[19:28.680 --> 19:29.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Mike, how did you know?
[19:29.920 --> 19:30.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: Gee.
[19:30.720 --> 19:35.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: State and federal prosecutors say the tactic is legal, but defense lawyers object to the practice.
[19:35.420 --> 19:42.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: We should enforce the existing laws, but not violate them to catch the bad guys, said Theo Gregory, city councilman and public defender.
[19:42.340 --> 19:45.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: We've become the bad guys, and that's not right.
[19:46.260 --> 19:48.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: We've become the bad guys, and that's not right.
[19:48.860 --> 19:54.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: Mayor James Baker, remember this name, Mayor James Baker called the criticism asinine and intellectually bankrupt.
[19:56.200 --> 19:59.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Is that the same James Baker, or it's got to be a different one?
[20:00.200 --> 20:01.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: The same as which James Baker?
[20:01.680 --> 20:05.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: The cabinet member of the Reagan White House?
[20:05.540 --> 20:06.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: I don't know.
[20:06.400 --> 20:07.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Secretary of the Treasury?
[20:07.500 --> 20:08.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: Secretary of State?
[20:08.340 --> 20:09.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: What's he been doing lately?
[20:10.060 --> 20:10.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's an old guy now.
[20:10.900 --> 20:11.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: Wasn't he Jim Baker?
[20:13.160 --> 20:14.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: No, Jim Baker was the religious guy.
[20:15.020 --> 20:16.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, there are two Jim Bakers at the same time.
[20:16.480 --> 20:17.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: One was Jim Backer, and one was Jim Baker.
[20:18.100 --> 20:18.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: Right.
[20:18.560 --> 20:20.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: And they both wound up in scandal, I think.
[20:21.640 --> 20:22.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: And here's a third one.
[20:23.340 --> 20:30.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: I don't care what anyone but a court of law thinks, he said, until the court says otherwise, if I say it's constitutional, it's constitutional.
[20:32.140 --> 20:33.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, James Baker.
[20:33.260 --> 20:34.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: Boy, there must be just something about that name.
[20:34.940 --> 20:36.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: What city is this?
[20:36.140 --> 20:37.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: This is Wilmington, Delaware.
[20:37.540 --> 20:38.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: Wilmington, Delaware.
[20:38.080 --> 20:39.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: Do you want to just take a trip to Wilmington, Delaware?
[20:40.740 --> 20:42.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you go to Delaware, watch out for speed traps.
[20:42.800 --> 20:43.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're everywhere.
[20:43.240 --> 20:51.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: No, I think we should go to the inner city, get a few busloads full of people, and take a field trip over there and give them some more names for, you know, potential criminals.
[20:53.660 --> 20:54.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: They'd love that.
[20:54.240 --> 20:55.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: They wouldn't be able to process it fast enough.
[20:55.780 --> 20:56.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's not a bad idea.
[20:56.380 --> 21:01.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: We go up to the cops and say, hi, I want to get on the potential criminal database.
[21:01.420 --> 21:02.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: Here's my ID.
[21:03.060 --> 21:07.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: The pictures are being taken by two Wilmington police squads created in June to arrest drug dealers.
[21:08.000 --> 21:13.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: The units are known in some neighborhoods as jump-out squads because they jump out of cars and make quick arrests.
[21:14.840 --> 21:20.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: And many of the people whose photos have been taken for the file were stopped briefly for loitering and then let go.
[21:23.140 --> 21:24.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: Strange times we are living in.
[21:24.960 --> 21:26.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: 21 Jump Out Street.
[21:26.540 --> 21:26.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[21:27.960 --> 21:28.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right.
[21:28.640 --> 21:39.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: We got a lot of mail from people concerning the whole Canada incident that I went through a couple of weeks ago where we were not allowed into the country because a friend of mine had been arrested nine years earlier.
[21:41.720 --> 21:42.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: A lot of people wrote in.
[21:42.960 --> 21:44.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: Here's a couple of the letters.
[21:44.820 --> 21:46.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: I was listening to this week's show, heard your ordeal.
[21:46.940 --> 21:55.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: Bill, this person wants to know if we have any idea what it's like to get into the United States being Canadian.
[21:56.460 --> 21:58.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you have a criminal record, forget about it.
[21:58.920 --> 22:07.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: If I want to move or go to work down in the USA, basically I need to either marry someone who's born and raised American or get an influential corporation to sponsor me.
[22:09.280 --> 22:14.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, working in a country is always harder than getting a tourist visa to go there for the week.
[22:14.440 --> 22:14.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[22:14.620 --> 22:19.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, the thing is you don't need a tourist visa coming from Canada or from the United States to Canada.
[22:20.380 --> 22:26.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: So therefore, if you're denied entry, it becomes a much bigger deal, a lot harder to get any kind of permission to come in.
[22:26.560 --> 22:38.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: I did a little research into the United States regulations and they say that if you're ever arrested, not even if you're convicted, if you're arrested, you have to get a traveling visa.
[22:38.120 --> 22:39.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: You have to apply for that.
[22:39.360 --> 22:40.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: You can't just come into the United States.
[22:40.860 --> 22:46.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you're from Europe, if you're from Canada and you've ever been arrested, you have to go through...
[22:46.140 --> 22:47.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's hell.
[22:47.180 --> 22:48.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: They make it so difficult.
[22:48.840 --> 22:53.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's not that difficult going to Europe from here if you've been arrested in the past.
[22:54.180 --> 22:57.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: Canada, if you've been convicted, it can be very difficult.
[22:57.880 --> 23:02.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: So that's just a word of warning and you might want to check these things out before you travel.
[23:04.660 --> 23:06.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: This person has a couple of comments.
[23:06.240 --> 23:07.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: First, Canada and immigration.
[23:07.840 --> 23:14.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: I live in Montreal now and I remember seeing something on CBC about the Mounties' increasing security, in quotes, on the border.
[23:15.060 --> 23:18.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think your friend was just one unlucky victim of their new rules and regulations.
[23:19.180 --> 23:23.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: This law was passed and so many are in Canada due to pressure from the United States.
[23:23.700 --> 23:26.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: In other words, send your thank you cards to Pennsylvania Avenue.
[23:26.300 --> 23:28.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: And that's signed, Raymond, an American in Montreal.
[23:31.580 --> 23:38.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: This person, Stephen Edmonton, says, I'm sorry to hear about your troubles getting into Canada, but the USA is just as bad, if not worse.
[23:39.420 --> 23:45.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: During 1999, I was traveling from Canada to Los Angeles and when I was asked if I had ever been arrested, I said yes.
[23:45.840 --> 23:49.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: I was arrested some nine years earlier but never charged and let go.
[23:49.600 --> 23:50.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: That wasn't enough for the U.S.
[23:51.080 --> 23:55.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: border guards and I spent half an hour waiting around while they tried to figure out if I was a complete jerk or not.
[23:55.100 --> 24:01.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: I was later allowed to board the plane, the last man on, but was given a stern warning not to get in any trouble while in the U.S.
[24:02.020 --> 24:04.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: I was going to a science fiction convention, for crying out loud.
[24:04.600 --> 24:05.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: I hardly think I was a threat.
[24:06.940 --> 24:08.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: You don't know the half of it.
[24:09.860 --> 24:14.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, uh, finally, uh, this letter, this is the first time you've been banned from Canada?
[24:14.940 --> 24:21.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: I have been denied access to Canada coming from Detroit for reasons of, quote, taking opportunities away from Canadian artists, unquote.
[24:22.040 --> 24:24.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: You see, we were playing a free show in Toronto.
[24:24.880 --> 24:25.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: Simple as that.
[24:26.120 --> 24:27.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: No entrance fee.
[24:27.520 --> 24:30.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: I've also been lucky enough to be profiled off the train when returning to the U.S.
[24:30.720 --> 24:36.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: from Toronto on a different occasion and grilled about why I've got vinyl records in my suitcase.
[24:36.700 --> 24:38.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: I like music was my only defense.
[24:40.780 --> 24:41.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: Unbelievable.
[24:41.820 --> 24:42.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: And that, uh, comes from Tack.
[24:43.240 --> 24:44.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: Thanks very much for that letter.
[24:44.720 --> 24:48.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: On this issue, there's an article in the Village Voice this week about, uh...
[24:48.460 --> 24:49.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: You mean next week?
[24:50.960 --> 24:55.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, if you walk down the street and pick up a copy of the Village Voice right now.
[24:55.000 --> 25:02.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm just saying, for the purpose of people listening on the archive, people listening on the archive, today may be August, what is it, 26th, 27th?
[25:02.500 --> 25:02.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: 28th.
[25:02.860 --> 25:03.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: 28th.
[25:03.260 --> 25:04.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, I'm behind the times.
[25:04.720 --> 25:07.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: They're actually looking at the September issue of the Village Voice.
[25:07.280 --> 25:16.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: So people in the future, in the year 3000 or whatever, if you're accessing this on the net or whatever they call it then, you need to look at the September, whatever, first week of September issue of the Village Voice is.
[25:16.920 --> 25:17.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: Go ahead.
[25:17.260 --> 25:36.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right, anyway, if you look at this issue, you'll see an article about, um, asylum seekers from, from, uh, you know, countries with repressive governments trying to get from, uh, Buffalo into Canada, um, and, and some new changes in the law, uh, around these people.
[25:36.200 --> 25:39.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: Wait, people from repressive, our government or another government?
[25:39.600 --> 25:40.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, other government.
[25:40.540 --> 25:42.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, people who are in the United States then?
[25:42.980 --> 25:44.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: People who are, like, in the U.S.
[25:44.980 --> 25:49.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: because it's easy to get a flight to the U.S., more so than Canada, but actually, you know, want to be in Canada.
[25:49.620 --> 25:50.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[25:50.680 --> 25:55.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and, and seek asylum there, and there's, they're changing the laws.
[25:57.660 --> 25:59.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: I knew that monitor was a bad idea when they put it in.
[26:00.660 --> 26:01.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: But, um, okay.
[26:02.880 --> 26:03.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: If only this was television.
[26:05.880 --> 26:07.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: Um, that's interesting, though.
[26:08.200 --> 26:11.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right, now to our other feature, which, uh, I'd like to, uh, get to.
[26:11.880 --> 26:13.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: Actually, I've been meaning to do this for a while.
[26:13.480 --> 26:18.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: This has been sitting around, uh, on my desk for literally months since June.
[26:18.520 --> 26:19.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: Someone sent this in.
[26:19.260 --> 26:25.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: Do you know people are actually composing music, uh, and it's inspired by this particular radio show?
[26:25.720 --> 26:26.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: Did you know that?
[26:26.660 --> 26:27.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, that is so scary.
[26:27.920 --> 26:28.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's pretty scary, all right.
[26:28.980 --> 26:37.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: But this person sent us, um, sent us this, this CD and also a letter saying, I've been listening to Off the Hook for a few months now via the net, uh, back in April.
[26:37.420 --> 26:43.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: One of your phone-in callers really inspired me on the CD-ROM project I was creating for the postgraduate course and presently on.
[26:44.120 --> 26:47.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, uh, what we're going to do is, is, is play this particular track.
[26:47.580 --> 26:50.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, I don't know if the person wants to be identified.
[26:50.000 --> 26:54.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: In fact, I'm not even sure where this is from because it's such a weird, uh, address.
[26:54.540 --> 26:57.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think it's England, but there's no country given on it.
[26:57.340 --> 26:59.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: There's no indication of where this is.
[26:59.440 --> 27:02.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I threw out the envelope, so I don't know what the postmark is.
[27:02.520 --> 27:10.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, but in any event, this, um, this is, uh, a track from, uh, from the CD called Static Information.
[27:10.380 --> 27:11.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I remember the phone call.
[27:11.520 --> 27:12.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: I remember it very vividly.
[27:12.900 --> 27:16.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, and if you want to hear that particular phone call, I think it's on our first show in April.
[27:17.280 --> 27:20.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, uh, take a listen to this track and we'll be right back.
[27:29.320 --> 27:34.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, um, I wanted to tell you a couple of things that, uh, that they do.
[27:35.920 --> 27:40.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, they have a lot of information.
[27:41.820 --> 27:42.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: Static information.
[27:43.700 --> 27:46.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Now, like that computer, I know you like the computer.
[27:46.460 --> 27:48.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: The computer changes a book.
[27:48.320 --> 27:49.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: Static information.
[27:49.360 --> 27:52.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: You take a book, you go to bed, you wake up in the morning, the book's right next to me.
[28:03.210 --> 28:04.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Static information.
[30:56.230 --> 31:02.470]  [SPEAKER_19]: Um, okay, and that's the piece, uh, and we found out, um, thanks to Ken, that, that, uh, actually comes from England, right?
[31:02.670 --> 31:02.850]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[31:03.210 --> 31:03.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, where?
[31:03.930 --> 31:06.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, from Berkshire, which is, and, um...
[31:06.010 --> 31:06.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: Why is your mic now?
[31:06.550 --> 31:06.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, there you go.
[31:07.090 --> 31:11.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: From a, from a part of England called, the county is Berkshire and not too far from London.
[31:11.730 --> 31:16.830]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, well, thanks very much for, uh, clarifying that and thanks to the, uh, person for, for sending that in.
[31:24.290 --> 31:35.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: The question that things are going these days, uh, after dodging trademark and copyright errors since its inception, the web's premier dot com deadpool has succumbed to legal pressure from offended websites.
[31:35.610 --> 31:57.950]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, Phil Kaplan's, um, uh, website that we can't say on the air, it's, uh, the F word, followed by edcompany.com, a website that has gained fame and some fortune-collecting rumors and reports of layoffs, closures, and other dot com fiascos, found itself shut down for nearly two days after our friends at the Ford Motor Company complained to the site's hosting provider about alleged trademark
[31:57.950 --> 31:58.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: infringements.
[31:59.330 --> 32:07.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: Um, ha, basically, um, uh, the headlines on the site, uh, were related to the Ford layoffs.
[32:08.150 --> 32:18.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, example, a letter dated July 12th, Ford lawyers said the headline on the website, f2company.com, uh, Ford, we're finding a job is job one.
[32:18.850 --> 32:22.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: It was confusingly similar to Ford's advertising slogan, Ford, where quality is job one.
[32:23.350 --> 32:26.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, and they actually expected that to be taken off.
[32:26.510 --> 32:28.930]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's a headline, you know, it's, it's not even a slogan.
[32:29.090 --> 32:31.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's, it's basically, it's speech, it's parody.
[32:31.430 --> 32:33.890]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's, it's somebody speaking something on a website.
[32:34.110 --> 32:38.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, so what happened was, um, well, actually, why don't we just have Phil Kaplan say it himself?
[32:38.430 --> 32:39.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: He's here in the studio.
[32:39.270 --> 32:39.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: How you doing?
[32:39.790 --> 32:40.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: Hey, what's up?
[32:40.390 --> 32:41.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: Welcome to, actually, is your mic on?
[32:41.990 --> 32:42.330]  [SPEAKER_19]: Hello, hello.
[32:42.450 --> 32:42.850]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, you are.
[32:42.990 --> 32:43.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[32:43.410 --> 32:44.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: There's so many mics here.
[32:44.530 --> 32:46.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, yeah, I mean, it's not even, it's not even parody.
[32:46.870 --> 32:58.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's like, if, if the, uh, New York Times were writing, were writing an article, let's say about Ford layoffs, and they used the headline, or the sentence, Ford, we're finding a job is job one.
[32:58.210 --> 32:59.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, that's essentially what it is.
[32:59.410 --> 33:02.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, there was a Reuters article that came out today about this very thing.
[33:03.370 --> 33:11.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it, in the Reuters article, it said, Ford, we're shutting down, eftcompany.com is job one, or something like that.
[33:11.590 --> 33:13.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, are they going to go after Reuters now?
[33:13.350 --> 33:21.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was, it's pretty, I mean, it's, the idea is that, obviously, everyone knows that, you know, I didn't do anything wrong, and I'm sure Ford's lawyers know I didn't do anything wrong.
[33:21.810 --> 33:24.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: But they see something out there that they want to get rid of, and they get rid of it.
[33:24.290 --> 33:25.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: But how did they manage to shut you down for two days?
[33:25.710 --> 33:26.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, here's what happened.
[33:28.050 --> 33:31.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: One day, I go to check my website, and it's just, it's not there.
[33:31.730 --> 33:35.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I call my ISP, and they're trying to figure out what's going on.
[33:35.990 --> 33:46.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: And finally, somebody figures out that it was unplugged from the network, and the reason it was unplugged was because what Ford did was, instead of going after me, they went after my ISP, which turns out Ford does all the time.
[33:46.710 --> 33:47.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: Ford went after my ISP.
[33:48.030 --> 33:52.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: My ISP said to me, they said, we know you didn't do anything wrong.
[33:53.030 --> 33:54.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's cool, you know, you didn't do anything wrong.
[33:54.830 --> 33:56.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we just don't want to be sued by Ford.
[33:56.650 --> 33:57.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: So we'll take you down.
[33:57.890 --> 34:05.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: So what I did was, I actually complied, and I got rid of all the headlines that Ford didn't like, and I linked them all to a scan of Ford's cease and desist letter.
[34:06.710 --> 34:15.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Which, so now I had no offending Ford content on my site, except for a scan of the letter, which they wrote, and they threatened my ISP again, and said, get rid of the letter.
[34:16.010 --> 34:16.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: Why?
[34:16.350 --> 34:17.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: No reason, just because we don't want it there.
[34:19.070 --> 34:20.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so my ISP took me down again.
[34:21.090 --> 34:30.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the messed up part is, then if you do a search, obviously you guys are famous Ford case, but there are a lot, Ford, I mean, there's so many of those cases with Ford, as I'm sure you've come across.
[34:32.170 --> 34:41.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: The Sealand people who I met through you guys at the last Hope conference are willing to host, you know, a bunch of stuff that I'm probably going to throw over there.
[34:42.310 --> 34:43.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: So we'll see how that goes.
[34:43.750 --> 34:45.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: Do you have legal representation on this?
[34:45.550 --> 34:47.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have a lawyer, but I haven't even sent it to my lawyer.
[34:48.010 --> 34:49.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, at this point, I've complied with everything.
[34:49.810 --> 34:54.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: The only issue is the ISP, and, you know, I don't know what I'm going to do, if I'm going to stay with them or not.
[34:55.830 --> 35:01.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm looking through the contract that I've signed with my ISP saying, you know, does it say anywhere that you're just allowed to turn me off for no reason whatsoever?
[35:01.910 --> 35:03.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think they might have breached a contract there.
[35:03.730 --> 35:04.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, definitely.
[35:04.650 --> 35:07.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: So we're trying to figure out, you know, what's going on with that.
[35:07.190 --> 35:08.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I've spoken with the people at the ISP.
[35:08.550 --> 35:12.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: The worst part now is, of course, the bad press that the ISP is getting.
[35:12.690 --> 35:13.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Host-centric Exodus.
[35:13.790 --> 35:14.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, sorry.
[35:14.470 --> 35:15.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: What was the name of that?
[35:15.910 --> 35:17.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's Host-centric, which hosts at Exodus.
[35:18.190 --> 35:18.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[35:18.610 --> 35:18.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, I mean, there's a lot.
[35:18.890 --> 35:19.450]  [SPEAKER_19]: Host-centric.
[35:19.610 --> 35:19.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's right.
[35:19.970 --> 35:21.910]  [SPEAKER_19]: H-O-S-T-C-E-M-T-R-I-C.
[35:22.210 --> 35:22.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Got it.
[35:23.030 --> 35:24.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: Host-centric, hosts at Exodus.
[35:25.010 --> 35:30.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, you know what's happening now with, you know that big, it was like a big MP3 site or something that was in Japan.
[35:30.770 --> 35:31.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just put it on my site.
[35:31.830 --> 35:32.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: I forgot what it was called.
[35:32.870 --> 35:34.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: But they couldn't find the ISP.
[35:35.110 --> 35:36.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: They couldn't find the ISP.
[35:36.710 --> 35:38.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: They couldn't even find...
[35:38.110 --> 35:45.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, what they did was they started going after the backbone providers, like UnionNet and stuff, saying you can't even allow traffic to this...
[35:45.570 --> 35:46.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: No, this was in China.
[35:46.390 --> 35:46.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: ...website.
[35:46.670 --> 35:47.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it was the China...
[35:47.310 --> 35:47.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[35:47.410 --> 35:48.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.
[35:48.090 --> 35:48.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[35:48.450 --> 35:51.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's so insane that you can do that.
[35:51.250 --> 35:53.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, that site, we reported on this, I think, a week ago.
[35:53.350 --> 35:55.030]  [SPEAKER_19]: That site is no longer reachable, apparently.
[35:55.330 --> 35:56.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's not reachable.
[35:56.190 --> 35:57.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: The site's probably still there.
[35:57.310 --> 35:58.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just your pipes aren't letting you out to it.
[35:59.030 --> 36:01.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think that they took it off or something.
[36:01.930 --> 36:04.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: Because I did a trace route to it and I made it all the way over to China.
[36:04.370 --> 36:07.750]  [SPEAKER_19]: And the last hop, I think the person just unplugged the machine and ran away.
[36:08.510 --> 36:09.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: But it's interesting.
[36:09.710 --> 36:10.070]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, you're right.
[36:10.150 --> 36:14.850]  [SPEAKER_19]: If they can't intimidate the person at the end, they intimidate the provider.
[36:14.990 --> 36:17.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: If they can't intimidate that person, they actually go for the backbone.
[36:17.570 --> 36:17.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[36:17.850 --> 36:22.850]  [SPEAKER_19]: Something interesting about that whole thing was that Warner Brothers was one of the companies behind it, but they didn't sue AOL.
[36:23.710 --> 36:24.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: Interesting.
[36:24.450 --> 36:26.530]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, AOL was mysteriously left off the list.
[36:26.730 --> 36:29.630]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, is AOL a backbone provider?
[36:31.210 --> 36:35.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm not actually sure how much they actually provide or who is included.
[36:35.190 --> 36:36.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: I don't have the list in front of me.
[36:36.190 --> 36:39.290]  [SPEAKER_19]: But it seems like they should have been on that list because...
[36:39.290 --> 36:43.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: They sued people of similar location down the chain as AOL.
[36:43.350 --> 36:43.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[36:44.270 --> 36:46.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think they sued...
[36:46.450 --> 36:47.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Anyway.
[36:47.270 --> 36:47.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, anyway.
[36:47.970 --> 36:48.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[36:48.270 --> 36:48.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Immaterial.
[36:49.050 --> 36:49.210]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[37:06.190 --> 37:09.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: Which, by the way, will be going online pretty soon, so people will be able to hear that if they missed it.
[37:10.570 --> 37:13.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: But, I mean, you get a ridiculous number of hits.
[37:13.850 --> 37:17.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: And people like to spread all kinds of rumors and hear what's going on with their companies.
[37:17.410 --> 37:17.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[37:17.910 --> 37:18.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's fun to run.
[37:18.690 --> 37:23.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, right now, I don't know if you give the Alexa rankings any credit, but that's all I have as far as rankings.
[37:23.930 --> 37:26.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's 780 or something.
[37:27.610 --> 37:30.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Most popular site on the web, of course, like most of those being porn sites.
[37:30.850 --> 37:31.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it's pretty cool.
[37:32.570 --> 37:32.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[37:33.210 --> 37:33.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's cool.
[37:33.810 --> 37:42.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I probably get 500 tips sent to me every day from people who are saying, hey, here's what's going on with my company and this and that.
[37:42.650 --> 37:43.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's sort of...
[37:43.270 --> 37:44.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's become a watchdog.
[37:44.490 --> 37:52.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's become a site where companies like Ford, who don't want the world to know that whatever they don't want to know, that they had layoffs or whatever.
[37:53.190 --> 37:56.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then they came to me to suppress it.
[37:56.350 --> 37:58.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Good job suppressing it because it was in Reuters this morning.
[37:59.490 --> 38:01.910]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think things always seem to backfire on them, you know?
[38:02.090 --> 38:03.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, yeah, exactly.
[38:03.270 --> 38:04.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: With you guys also.
[38:05.510 --> 38:07.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: You'd think they would learn their lesson by now.
[38:07.390 --> 38:07.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just let it...
[38:07.970 --> 38:08.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, seriously?
[38:08.890 --> 38:11.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was like, I have 4,000 headlines on my website.
[38:11.950 --> 38:13.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: And this was something I wrote about like eight months ago.
[38:14.050 --> 38:15.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Nobody would have seen it ever.
[38:15.930 --> 38:17.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: But they dug it up.
[38:18.430 --> 38:18.830]  [SPEAKER_19]: Wow.
[38:18.830 --> 38:23.470]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, don't these companies firewall their users, prevent them from accessing you?
[38:23.590 --> 38:24.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: So how do you get around that?
[38:25.230 --> 38:26.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's another funny...
[38:26.150 --> 38:31.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, first of all, I have a few different IP addresses and different domain names that all point to the same thing.
[38:33.010 --> 38:34.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it was funny yesterday.
[38:34.570 --> 38:37.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think the article you were reading might have come from news.com.
[38:37.890 --> 38:38.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[38:38.990 --> 38:44.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm talking to the guy, the writer at news.com, and I'm telling him the story.
[38:44.810 --> 38:47.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I have a scan of the cease and desist online on my site.
[38:47.930 --> 38:51.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm like, www.ftcompany.com slash whatever.
[38:51.670 --> 38:53.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he's like, oh, it's not coming up for me.
[38:53.130 --> 38:53.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not coming up for me.
[38:53.730 --> 38:54.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: I go, oh, wait, dude.
[38:54.730 --> 38:56.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: You work for CNET, don't you?
[38:56.170 --> 38:56.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he's like, yeah.
[38:57.010 --> 38:58.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm like, it's not going to come up.
[38:58.330 --> 38:59.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: He's like, oh, that stinks.
[38:59.610 --> 39:01.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I had to email him a copy.
[39:01.250 --> 39:01.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: He couldn't get to it.
[39:01.810 --> 39:02.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: I don't understand.
[39:02.330 --> 39:04.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: Why would a news organization block?
[39:05.470 --> 39:06.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: It gets even worse.
[39:19.350 --> 39:22.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: He was famous for saying, people need to screw off when they're at work.
[39:23.350 --> 39:30.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: And whether you're doing personal email or doing some Christmas shopping or whatever you're doing, it's going to happen.
[39:30.090 --> 39:31.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: So he's all for rights on the internet.
[39:31.390 --> 39:35.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he's not for logging and shutting people off based on where they're surfing.
[39:35.130 --> 39:36.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he's totally against all that stuff.
[39:36.370 --> 39:38.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he's really for freedom and rights and all that stuff.
[39:38.230 --> 39:42.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: So anyway, this is CNET's CTO, who obviously is the boss of whoever blocked my site.
[39:44.510 --> 39:48.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's funny, because all the articles that came out, none of them quoted him.
[39:48.430 --> 39:50.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have a feeling he's sort of on our side.
[39:50.670 --> 40:00.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: The deal is, the reason their justification for shutting it down was there was a lot of talk in the message boards from people who worked at CNET saying, hey, here's what's going on in our company.
[40:00.930 --> 40:08.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, I mean, people were posting how much money they had in their bank account and their CEO cell phone numbers and all this stuff, which I'm not saying I'm forward or against it.
[40:09.050 --> 40:11.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: If something's real terrible, I'll get rid of it.
[40:11.810 --> 40:19.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not trying to push any envelopes here, but that's why they shut it down, to keep people from posting on their message board, like people can't post to any message board in the world.
[40:19.850 --> 40:21.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: They might as well shut down Yahoo, you know?
[40:22.170 --> 40:22.350]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[40:22.950 --> 40:25.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: Has this been the first time that something like this has happened to you?
[40:25.450 --> 40:26.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: I get...
[40:26.130 --> 40:26.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: Ford case?
[40:26.890 --> 40:27.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: I get...
[40:27.610 --> 40:28.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is the first time I was shut down.
[40:29.130 --> 40:32.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I get cease and desist letters every week, probably, for one reason or another.
[40:32.650 --> 40:36.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're usually based on stuff that people are writing in the message boards.
[40:36.990 --> 40:40.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: The main message board's being called the Happy Fun Slander Corner, so it's sort of a target.
[40:42.630 --> 40:43.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'll get...
[40:43.710 --> 40:47.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, sometimes they'll say, so-and-so, you know, we're being slandered or libeled or whatever.
[40:47.070 --> 40:48.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I take each one on a case-by-case basis.
[40:48.770 --> 40:52.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: The great thing about the internet, of course, is I can delete it and say I never wrote it and say it was never there.
[40:53.710 --> 40:54.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: Wow.
[40:54.030 --> 40:55.070]  [SPEAKER_19]: Have you heard of archive.org?
[40:55.370 --> 40:55.630]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[40:55.950 --> 40:56.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Unfortunately.
[40:56.490 --> 40:56.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[40:56.670 --> 41:05.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, I have a really good relationship with Alexa now because I have a site called junglescan.com, which tracks, you know, Alexa and Amazon is the same thing now.
[41:05.730 --> 41:07.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: It tracks, like, Amazon ranks and Alexa ranks.
[41:08.030 --> 41:11.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they made a version of the Alexa toolbar that's branded, like, EFT Company.
[41:12.010 --> 41:15.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I might be able to hook up something with archive.org.
[41:15.250 --> 41:15.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[41:16.310 --> 41:16.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: Great.
[41:17.270 --> 41:17.630]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[41:17.770 --> 41:19.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: Our phone number is 212-209-2900.
[41:19.870 --> 41:22.770]  [SPEAKER_19]: We're here with Phil Kaplan of eftcompany.com.
[41:22.890 --> 41:25.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I'm sure you can figure out what the missing letters are.
[41:25.730 --> 41:30.890]  [SPEAKER_19]: And we're also talking about the general downfall of Western civilization and various other things like that.
[41:30.950 --> 41:37.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: And this is possibly our special 911 show if we're preempted in two weeks, as I'm being told we very likely will be.
[41:37.830 --> 41:42.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: So if you have anything you want to share as far as that goes, please feel free to give us a call as well.
[41:42.690 --> 41:44.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: Let's take our first listener phone call.
[41:44.530 --> 41:45.090]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good evening.
[41:45.190 --> 41:45.610]  [SPEAKER_19]: You're on the air.
[41:45.690 --> 41:46.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, Manuel.
[41:46.990 --> 41:49.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Danny here, Dave's brother from the Personal Computer Show.
[41:49.650 --> 41:50.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: Which is on next.
[41:50.650 --> 41:51.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, indeed.
[41:51.690 --> 41:52.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: Very confusing.
[41:53.050 --> 41:54.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: One of these days I'll learn the schedule again.
[41:55.350 --> 41:59.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anyway, you asked about the one pound issue in the post office.
[41:59.570 --> 42:07.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: That actually goes back to when TWA Flight 800 was, quote-unquote, blown up by a bomb, which of course is not what happened.
[42:07.990 --> 42:11.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was an emergency regulation passed by the FAA.
[42:11.610 --> 42:16.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the idea was they figured they had to put some limit on there.
[42:17.050 --> 42:22.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: They figured anything less than a pound, if it went off aboard a plane, would not bring the plane down.
[42:23.090 --> 42:40.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: So the actual postal service regs is if you drop something in there over a pound, they do have the ability or they do have the option of still taking it, but they're supposed to stick all sorts of labels on it that say ground transport only.
[42:40.790 --> 42:41.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: I see.
[42:41.370 --> 42:43.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: Most of the time, though, they'll actually kick it back to you.
[42:43.370 --> 42:46.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: So this was a law that was passed temporarily as a result of Flight 800?
[42:46.950 --> 42:47.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[42:47.410 --> 42:52.630]  [SPEAKER_16]: Although it happened at roughly the same time as the Unabomber, so a lot of people confused the two issues.
[42:53.370 --> 42:58.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Suffice to say, if you got a package that was eight ounces of explosive and you opened it, it would kill you.
[42:59.170 --> 43:01.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was not a Unabomber response.
[43:01.770 --> 43:03.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was courtesy of Flight 800.
[43:04.030 --> 43:05.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: But it was temporary.
[43:05.610 --> 43:06.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Supposed to be.
[43:06.630 --> 43:08.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: Interesting how these things stay with us.
[43:08.170 --> 43:10.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: And of course it was because of the bomb aboard Flight 800, which never was.
[43:11.330 --> 43:12.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: Right, right.
[43:12.770 --> 43:14.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: And on that note, anyway, take care.
[43:14.430 --> 43:15.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right, thanks for calling.
[43:15.950 --> 43:18.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: As you can see, we're talking about all kinds of issues tonight.
[43:18.670 --> 43:20.490]  [SPEAKER_19]: Let's take another phone call.
[43:20.790 --> 43:21.550]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[43:22.670 --> 43:23.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: Speak up.
[43:23.890 --> 43:24.670]  [SPEAKER_19]: Is anyone there?
[43:26.170 --> 43:26.530]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[43:27.150 --> 43:27.930]  [SPEAKER_19]: Let's try this one.
[43:28.010 --> 43:28.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[43:29.570 --> 43:29.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey.
[43:30.370 --> 43:30.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: What's up?
[43:31.130 --> 43:31.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, you.
[43:32.590 --> 43:33.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes, go ahead.
[43:33.650 --> 43:37.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I asked you this several years ago.
[43:37.970 --> 43:39.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you've gotten around.
[43:39.550 --> 43:41.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: I do appreciate your guests there, by the way.
[43:41.390 --> 43:42.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, thanks.
[43:42.310 --> 43:44.210]  [SPEAKER_19]: We appreciate the fact that you appreciate that.
[43:44.270 --> 43:47.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: A few years ago, I called and...
[43:48.510 --> 43:49.630]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think I remember the call.
[43:49.630 --> 43:51.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: I will tell you the question in a moment.
[43:51.490 --> 43:54.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: You said, well, that would take a whole show or two.
[43:54.410 --> 43:54.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh-huh.
[43:55.150 --> 43:55.390]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[43:55.870 --> 43:58.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: And here we are being printed two shows after this one.
[43:58.150 --> 44:03.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the question was, who are these internet service providers?
[44:04.510 --> 44:05.350]  [SPEAKER_19]: Who are they?
[44:06.330 --> 44:08.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: Who sets the price?
[44:10.510 --> 44:14.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: Who determines how long your contract goes?
[44:15.270 --> 44:15.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: You do.
[44:15.950 --> 44:17.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know?
[44:17.750 --> 44:18.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
[44:18.770 --> 44:19.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah?
[44:19.070 --> 44:19.750]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, first of all, yeah.
[44:19.950 --> 44:21.830]  [SPEAKER_19]: There are a number of questions that...
[44:21.830 --> 44:21.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't hear you.
[44:21.910 --> 44:23.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: I can't hear you over the phone.
[44:23.270 --> 44:23.690]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[44:23.850 --> 44:25.030]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, why don't you listen to the radio?
[44:25.230 --> 44:29.290]  [SPEAKER_19]: And we'll try to address these topics over the radio as quickly as we can.
[44:29.990 --> 44:37.530]  [SPEAKER_19]: Basically, I guess what Phil is saying is that it's market-driven as far as how the contracts are written, how much it costs, things like that.
[44:37.670 --> 44:42.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: In 1999, I was paying $800 per megabit per second for hosting.
[44:42.690 --> 44:53.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: And about six months ago, I called my ISP, and I was like, I don't know if you've been reading the news lately or anything, but a lot of these internet companies have been going out of business, and I'll bet demand's not as high anymore.
[44:53.450 --> 44:58.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they're like, well, so I got it down to $300 per megabit per second, which is what I'm paying now.
[44:58.250 --> 44:58.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[44:58.690 --> 45:01.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, you know, speed goes up, prices go down, supposedly.
[45:01.570 --> 45:03.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: I don't know if that's going to continue much longer.
[45:03.410 --> 45:05.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you know, there's a...
[45:05.150 --> 45:09.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, because of Moore's Law, all the ISPs are screwed anyway, because ISPs...
[45:10.150 --> 45:15.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, now they make a lot of money on bandwidth, but they also make a lot of money on racks and physical space.
[45:15.250 --> 45:19.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: And what I'm doing on five servers now, you know, two years from now, I'll be able to do one on one server.
[45:19.570 --> 45:20.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not going to need as much space.
[45:20.910 --> 45:31.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you have an entire floor of Globix, you know, what is it, doubles every year or whatever, you know, next year, theoretically, should be half the size, and a year later should be half the size.
[45:31.470 --> 45:33.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Eventually, I'll be running my website on my watch, you know.
[45:34.510 --> 45:34.830]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[45:34.950 --> 45:36.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: And then how will they make money off that?
[45:36.690 --> 45:37.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bandwidth.
[45:37.730 --> 45:38.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[45:38.050 --> 45:38.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: So we'll see.
[45:38.450 --> 45:42.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's interesting how people consume more and more bandwidth, but things don't really seem to get faster.
[45:42.930 --> 45:45.890]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, you have more ads to deal with and just more crap.
[45:46.130 --> 45:46.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, a lot more crap.
[45:47.170 --> 45:53.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, the other big thing is, you know, HTTP compression, which nobody knows about.
[45:54.450 --> 46:00.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: The ISPs want to keep it a big secret, obviously, because now they can hardly make money on space because computers are so powerful.
[46:00.750 --> 46:07.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're trying to make it on bandwidth, and I installed HTTP compression on my site and saved 60% of my bandwidth bills.
[46:07.410 --> 46:07.610]  [SPEAKER_15]: Really?
[46:07.950 --> 46:08.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[46:08.450 --> 46:22.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a... if you don't know what it is, for anyone listening, every modern browser that's out there right now includes, has built into it, including Internet Explorer and Mozilla and Netscape and all that, gzip uncompression.
[46:23.010 --> 46:29.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: So what my web server does, for example, if you visit f2company.com, is my web server gzips every file and sends it over to you zipped.
[46:29.910 --> 46:32.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: It actually compresses it 80%, just the HTML.
[46:32.870 --> 46:34.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then on your site, it unzips it.
[46:34.730 --> 46:36.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now you have to have gnzip on your site, right?
[46:36.710 --> 46:42.870]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have to have an HTTP compressor on your site, which is built into the new IIS, and it's built into Apache, and it's built into...
[46:42.870 --> 46:44.790]  [SPEAKER_19]: Is it only built into newer ones, or is it built into...
[46:44.790 --> 46:49.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's only built into the super new IIS, but I have a program... I use a program called X-Compress.
[46:49.830 --> 46:57.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: And once everybody starts using HTTP compression, and once compression gets better, and things like that, the ISPs are hosed as far as bandwidth goes, too.
[46:57.610 --> 47:00.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I wouldn't be investing in any ISPs in the near future.
[47:01.250 --> 47:05.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, well, that's a tip from f2company.com right there.
[47:05.150 --> 47:16.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I imagine you get all kinds of angry engineers and things sending you tips saying how they're cutting back on workforces in ISPs and various other Internet companies.
[47:16.190 --> 47:20.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I get... like I said, I get, you know, 500 tips a day or so, and...
[47:20.990 --> 47:22.610]  [SPEAKER_19]: How do you verify if something is real?
[47:23.910 --> 47:24.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's funny.
[47:24.830 --> 47:25.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: The users verify it.
[47:26.010 --> 47:31.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: If I put something... if something's up there for more than five minutes and it's not right, I get a flurry of email.
[47:32.030 --> 47:34.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: Which is to say, it doesn't happen too often.
[47:35.170 --> 47:42.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have... in the Internet that I have... that I wrote to sort through all this stuff, I have an automatic system that searches for keywords.
[47:42.830 --> 47:47.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, for example, let's say today I go home and I check the news and I have 20...
[47:47.750 --> 47:50.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: 20 people sent me a tip with the word 2600 in it.
[47:51.190 --> 47:53.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know something's going on with 2600.
[47:53.770 --> 47:56.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you guys sued by whoever it is or whatever.
[47:56.730 --> 48:03.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so I'll... you know, I'll see the same story written 20 ways from probably 20 different people and I'll assume that it's probably real.
[48:03.590 --> 48:11.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: But if I'm still... if it's not confirmed in a real news source, I'll put rumor has it, which is my audience's way of knowing that this is just what I heard.
[48:11.890 --> 48:16.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you have just one deep throat or somebody that is giving you a tip and nobody else has that information...
[48:16.710 --> 48:17.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Which I get a lot also.
[48:18.210 --> 48:20.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that I just... I go on gut instinct.
[48:20.810 --> 48:24.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: And so far, luckily I've generally been right all the time.
[48:25.310 --> 48:29.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: Again, going back to the Internet, I can just take it down and say I didn't put it up there if it's wrong.
[48:29.790 --> 48:42.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: But a lot of... I have put things up there very rarely, but it's happened where I'll put something up and then I'll have the company, lots of people at the company, give me, like, proof and reasons and totally explain to me why this is not possible and why it's wrong.
[48:42.910 --> 48:45.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: In which case, you know, I'll apologize or whatever.
[48:45.710 --> 48:46.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: And the evidence goes up as well?
[48:47.590 --> 48:50.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sometimes the evidence goes up or sometimes I just delete it, you know, whatever they want.
[48:50.890 --> 48:58.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the worst it ever is is, like, I say 100 people were laid off and it's like 50, you know, or it's like, okay, like, the general idea is the same.
[48:58.670 --> 49:00.510]  [SPEAKER_19]: So generally you can't go wrong betting on layoffs.
[49:01.070 --> 49:01.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[49:02.490 --> 49:03.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's the thing.
[49:03.170 --> 49:07.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: If it's 50 people are laid off, like, I'll probably get 50 emails from those 50 people, you know.
[49:07.390 --> 49:07.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[49:07.730 --> 49:14.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or if I say 100 people, the 50 people who are still there will say no, dude, like, you know.
[49:14.730 --> 49:16.670]  [SPEAKER_19]: Do you ever post good news about companies expanding?
[49:16.670 --> 49:16.750]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[49:16.750 --> 49:19.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, I have a site called luckedcompany.com.
[49:21.390 --> 49:23.470]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, gee, I guess that one we can say on the air.
[49:23.470 --> 49:26.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, luckedcompany, and the other one starts with an F and rhymes.
[49:26.510 --> 49:26.770]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, okay.
[49:28.990 --> 49:31.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: So luckedcompany.com is the good news version.
[49:31.810 --> 49:32.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it's there.
[49:32.690 --> 49:35.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's, you know, like, not as fun to read, not as popular.
[49:35.770 --> 49:48.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, I mean, really the reason I think why people like the original site, F'd Company, is because, well, besides that, you know, sometimes it's entertaining to read, it's really, it's doing, obviously the people who are sending me all this information,
[49:48.470 --> 49:54.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: who are being screwed and ripped off and laid off and whatever, they want their stuff posted and they want their voices heard.
[49:54.810 --> 49:57.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't really have that with the luckedcompany.
[49:57.450 --> 50:00.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: And with the luckedcompany, you know, maybe I'll start getting press releases.
[50:00.610 --> 50:01.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you will.
[50:01.290 --> 50:03.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hey, we released the new version of Windows.
[50:03.270 --> 50:05.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, so I don't put news like that.
[50:05.610 --> 50:09.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: Even on luckedcompany, I put, you know, this is what I heard.
[50:09.290 --> 50:10.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like, this is a new technology coming out.
[50:10.830 --> 50:12.570]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like, nobody's supposed to know about it and stuff like that.
[50:12.670 --> 50:12.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh-huh.
[50:13.310 --> 50:14.490]  [SPEAKER_19]: How much time does this take?
[50:15.050 --> 50:15.910]  [SPEAKER_19]: Do you have a staff?
[50:15.910 --> 50:17.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: I work, you know, I'm probably like you.
[50:18.130 --> 50:19.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: I work either zero hours or 24 hours.
[50:19.750 --> 50:20.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know.
[50:20.350 --> 50:22.070]  [SPEAKER_11]: Like, I can't, I can't tell what it is.
[50:22.270 --> 50:22.430]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[50:22.650 --> 50:26.030]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have one full-time employee who's a programmer.
[50:26.610 --> 50:28.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then I have a, I'm also a programmer.
[50:28.790 --> 50:30.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: So together we, we do all that.
[50:30.710 --> 50:31.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: I do the editorial stuff.
[50:31.590 --> 50:34.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then I have a, you know, Linux guy who does all my security.
[50:34.490 --> 50:34.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's great.
[50:34.690 --> 50:36.950]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's inspiring that one person can do all this.
[50:37.150 --> 50:37.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[50:37.390 --> 50:37.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: And really make a difference.
[50:38.190 --> 50:38.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's fun, yeah.
[50:39.330 --> 50:40.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right, six more phone calls.
[50:40.330 --> 50:41.770]  [SPEAKER_19]: 212-209-2900.
[50:41.950 --> 50:42.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: See who's out there.
[50:42.970 --> 50:43.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good evening.
[50:45.910 --> 50:46.370]  [SPEAKER_19]: Just your chance.
[50:46.610 --> 50:46.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: How about you?
[50:46.990 --> 50:47.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good evening.
[50:47.370 --> 50:47.750]  [SPEAKER_19]: You're on the air.
[50:48.290 --> 50:48.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, hello.
[50:48.930 --> 50:49.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: Hi.
[50:49.290 --> 50:54.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was talking to Armand DeMille this afternoon about a subject.
[50:54.770 --> 51:02.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: And as the discussion wore on, I responded to something that he was saying, you know, in mid-sentence.
[51:02.590 --> 51:03.850]  [SPEAKER_19]: Does this have anything to do with us?
[51:03.930 --> 51:05.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he did not hear me.
[51:05.450 --> 51:05.730]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[51:06.030 --> 51:09.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he kept talking through it, you know, as if he did not hear me.
[51:09.070 --> 51:09.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, but I hear you.
[51:09.990 --> 51:10.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: I hear you.
[51:10.530 --> 51:11.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know if you can hear me.
[51:11.830 --> 51:12.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm louder.
[51:12.390 --> 51:13.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: I said, don't you hear me?
[51:13.870 --> 51:18.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he did not hear me, and yet he was still responding to the discussion.
[51:18.590 --> 51:19.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Because he's on tape.
[51:19.830 --> 51:21.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then he finished and said, well, what do you think?
[51:21.870 --> 51:23.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: You were calling a tape program.
[51:23.190 --> 51:24.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: And he couldn't hear me again.
[51:24.610 --> 51:25.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: This guy can't hear me.
[51:26.050 --> 51:26.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: Is there someone...
[51:26.990 --> 51:28.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think he's from a remote...
[51:28.390 --> 51:29.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think he's a bot.
[51:29.690 --> 51:30.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: This guy's on tape.
[51:30.610 --> 51:31.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right, he's a robot.
[51:31.730 --> 51:34.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Was it the fact that the engineer in the studio...
[51:34.970 --> 51:35.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right, we don't have time for this.
[51:36.050 --> 51:36.750]  [SPEAKER_19]: We're only on for an hour.
[51:36.830 --> 51:39.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, if you want to have conversations like this, we have to have more time.
[51:39.970 --> 51:42.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: Every week we get letters from people saying, I wish you had more time.
[51:42.810 --> 51:43.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know what?
[51:43.170 --> 51:45.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: Since we preempted so much, yeah, I wish we had more time, too.
[51:45.570 --> 51:49.290]  [SPEAKER_19]: So send those cards and letters to the people in charge, and maybe something will happen.
[51:49.590 --> 51:50.070]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good evening.
[51:50.210 --> 51:50.830]  [SPEAKER_19]: You're on the air.
[51:51.310 --> 51:51.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: Hello?
[51:51.790 --> 51:52.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes, go ahead.
[51:52.790 --> 51:53.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hello?
[51:53.350 --> 51:53.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes.
[51:53.750 --> 51:54.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: Can you hear me?
[51:54.890 --> 51:55.170]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hello?
[51:55.390 --> 51:56.290]  [SPEAKER_19]: No, people can't hear me.
[51:56.290 --> 51:56.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh-oh.
[51:57.410 --> 51:58.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, I hear your silence.
[51:58.810 --> 52:00.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: Can you hear me, though, at all?
[52:00.330 --> 52:00.990]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, I can't.
[52:01.050 --> 52:02.350]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, how did you answer that question?
[52:02.870 --> 52:04.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: I have the radio on.
[52:04.190 --> 52:05.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, all right.
[52:05.110 --> 52:06.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, something's definitely wrong.
[52:06.470 --> 52:08.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: So you're smart, you have the radio on, so we'll have to communicate that way.
[52:08.990 --> 52:09.470]  [SPEAKER_19]: Is there a delay?
[52:10.090 --> 52:11.370]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm keeping the radio low.
[52:11.530 --> 52:12.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: There's a delay for Internet users.
[52:13.050 --> 52:14.190]  [SPEAKER_17]: There's not a delay for live users.
[52:14.450 --> 52:17.470]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm hoping someday it'll be curtains for Windows.
[52:17.810 --> 52:17.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[52:18.210 --> 52:19.890]  [SPEAKER_17]: Anyway, I have a real quickie.
[52:19.930 --> 52:20.470]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'll move on.
[52:21.470 --> 52:24.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: Somebody in the studio was talking about the fact that they need ID.
[52:24.770 --> 52:29.830]  [SPEAKER_17]: I went at the library on Madison, the 35th, 34th.
[52:30.190 --> 52:30.310]  Yes.
[52:30.490 --> 52:31.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, indeed.
[52:32.870 --> 52:35.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, this is not a uniform policy.
[52:35.610 --> 52:42.730]  [SPEAKER_17]: Of course, my branch, which is also somewhere in Midtown, I don't want to give it out unless they change the policy by tomorrow.
[52:43.170 --> 52:47.170]  [SPEAKER_17]: They don't require any ID, and it's like a sign-up sheet.
[52:47.330 --> 52:52.530]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I simply give my first name with a last name initial, and that's good enough.
[52:52.530 --> 52:55.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: And when the time comes, they don't even check.
[52:55.230 --> 52:56.790]  [SPEAKER_17]: Somebody's not even always at the desk.
[52:56.790 --> 53:00.190]  [SPEAKER_17]: We just walk over to the numbered booth, and there aren't too many.
[53:00.670 --> 53:05.450]  [SPEAKER_17]: And that's how I get my Internet in if I'm out in front of a terminal of my own.
[53:05.450 --> 53:09.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, I'll try a number of things, because I'm in there fairly frequently lately.
[53:09.990 --> 53:10.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll see what happens.
[53:10.890 --> 53:11.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: More reports later.
[53:12.230 --> 53:12.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[53:12.690 --> 53:12.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye-bye.
[53:13.050 --> 53:13.630]  [SPEAKER_19]: Thanks for calling.
[53:14.090 --> 53:15.950]  [SPEAKER_19]: And just a warning to our listeners.
[53:16.170 --> 53:20.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: Apparently, for some reason, you're not able to hear us over the phone.
[53:20.150 --> 53:26.630]  [SPEAKER_19]: So if you're listening on the Internet, since there's like a one-and-a-half-minute delay between when I talk and when you hear it, it's really going to make things hard.
[53:26.810 --> 53:29.490]  [SPEAKER_19]: So probably not a good idea to call on the Internet.
[53:30.030 --> 53:31.490]  [SPEAKER_19]: Let's see if anyone out there...
[53:31.490 --> 53:33.670]  [SPEAKER_19]: A lot of calls just dropped off the line, but let's see who's out there.
[53:33.730 --> 53:34.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good evening.
[53:34.190 --> 53:34.610]  [SPEAKER_19]: You're on the air.
[53:36.350 --> 53:37.910]  [SPEAKER_19]: No, apparently you cannot hear me.
[53:37.990 --> 53:38.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[53:38.530 --> 53:39.350]  [SPEAKER_19]: How about you?
[53:39.470 --> 53:40.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: Can you hear me?
[53:40.830 --> 53:41.150]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[53:41.370 --> 53:41.670]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, good.
[53:41.670 --> 53:41.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[53:42.130 --> 53:42.990]  [SPEAKER_02]: What's on your mind?
[53:43.090 --> 53:56.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to mention that I read some of the texts from the Workers' Org website, and they claim that they've got in the top 1% of all hits on the website.
[53:56.990 --> 54:08.190]  [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's very amazing for something that is a progressive Marxist organization website that doesn't compromise, and I just wonder if that sounds good to you as well.
[54:09.130 --> 54:09.490]  [SPEAKER_02]: Impressive.
[54:10.530 --> 54:13.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I really have no way of verifying one way or the other.
[54:15.010 --> 54:17.330]  [SPEAKER_19]: So I guess I'll just have to take their word for it.
[54:18.530 --> 54:20.690]  [SPEAKER_19]: We have a studio engineer in here.
[54:20.750 --> 54:23.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: Do we have an idea why they can't hear us?
[54:23.150 --> 54:24.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: That magic button you just pressed, do you think that's going to work?
[54:25.190 --> 54:25.330]  [SPEAKER_19]: Mm-hmm.
[54:25.690 --> 54:25.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[54:25.990 --> 54:26.430]  [SPEAKER_19]: Great.
[54:26.730 --> 54:29.630]  [SPEAKER_19]: If that does work, you'll have to tell me what that button does later.
[54:29.730 --> 54:29.970]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good evening.
[54:30.030 --> 54:30.370]  [SPEAKER_19]: You're on the air.
[54:30.430 --> 54:30.830]  [SPEAKER_19]: Can you hear me?
[54:31.470 --> 54:32.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I can hear you.
[54:32.450 --> 54:32.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, good.
[54:32.970 --> 54:33.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[54:33.670 --> 54:34.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: You can hear me over the phone?
[54:35.150 --> 54:35.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[54:35.770 --> 54:36.090]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[54:36.350 --> 54:37.110]  [SPEAKER_19]: Thank you very much.
[54:37.350 --> 54:37.890]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right.
[54:38.310 --> 54:40.830]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's why it's important to have engineers that know what they're doing.
[54:42.690 --> 54:48.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: So any rumors of layoffs at BAI for studio engineers are here for unfounded.
[54:48.330 --> 54:48.770]  [SPEAKER_19]: Go ahead.
[54:48.870 --> 54:49.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: Caller.
[54:49.190 --> 54:49.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: What's on your mind?
[54:49.810 --> 54:50.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[54:50.150 --> 54:50.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: I got a quick question.
[54:51.590 --> 54:55.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's pretty childish what Ford did.
[54:55.830 --> 55:02.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: I was just wondering if there's any governmental or non-governmental organizations or people that came to defend you.
[55:02.730 --> 55:03.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[55:03.290 --> 55:03.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: The...
[55:04.270 --> 55:05.170]  [SPEAKER_11]: What are they called?
[55:05.730 --> 55:06.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: The EFF.
[55:06.790 --> 55:07.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: Electronic Frontier Frontier.
[55:07.530 --> 55:07.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[55:07.790 --> 55:09.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: They sent me a whole package and, you know...
[55:09.970 --> 55:11.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there's also...
[55:11.470 --> 55:13.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, there's a site...
[55:13.130 --> 55:13.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a...
[55:13.770 --> 55:14.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: There are a lot of people.
[55:15.070 --> 55:16.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you know what I get, actually?
[55:16.590 --> 55:17.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: And this is kind of cool.
[55:18.010 --> 55:24.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: I get email from lawyers and law firms all the time who want to defend me because they want to be in the paper or whatever.
[55:24.930 --> 55:28.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, they want to have some big First Amendment case.
[55:28.770 --> 55:32.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, yeah, luckily I've had some lawyers on my side, you know, giving me advice here and there.
[55:33.050 --> 55:34.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the EFF has, you know, come after it.
[55:34.770 --> 55:35.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: Look, now you're on the radio.
[55:36.070 --> 55:36.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: And now I'm on the radio.
[55:37.170 --> 55:39.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm meeting you, you know, face to face.
[55:39.370 --> 55:40.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you know, we were so busy.
[55:40.790 --> 55:42.370]  [SPEAKER_11]: They promised me FaceTime with you.
[55:42.930 --> 55:43.810]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was like...
[55:43.810 --> 55:46.490]  [SPEAKER_11]: He was like, well, we can't pay, but we'll give you FaceTime with Emmanuel.
[55:46.490 --> 55:47.410]  [SPEAKER_11]: Who said that?
[55:47.770 --> 55:49.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: Who used the word FaceTime?
[55:49.330 --> 55:50.330]  [SPEAKER_19]: I want that person's head.
[55:50.330 --> 55:51.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because you're such a rock star.
[55:51.410 --> 55:52.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's true, man.
[55:52.610 --> 55:54.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, well, things were pretty hectic there.
[55:54.130 --> 55:56.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I apologize to anybody who was at the conference, didn't get to talk.
[55:57.310 --> 55:59.290]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, I always say next time we'll have more time.
[55:59.430 --> 56:00.070]  [SPEAKER_19]: We never do.
[56:00.310 --> 56:01.370]  [SPEAKER_19]: But you had fun, right?
[56:01.430 --> 56:02.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I had a great time.
[56:02.910 --> 56:03.550]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have a...
[56:03.550 --> 56:04.950]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now I have your cell phone number.
[56:05.030 --> 56:06.930]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm going to biohack you.
[56:07.190 --> 56:07.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh-huh.
[56:07.810 --> 56:08.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: Cool.
[56:08.370 --> 56:09.630]  [SPEAKER_19]: How was your talk received?
[56:11.710 --> 56:12.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, really well.
[56:12.910 --> 56:16.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: Lots of people came up after my talk because we didn't have enough...
[56:16.770 --> 56:19.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: There were a lot of questions, which is always a good sign.
[56:19.670 --> 56:23.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: And after the talk, I was answering questions for probably another hour.
[56:23.510 --> 56:24.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just people there.
[56:24.990 --> 56:26.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, I met a bunch of people.
[56:26.270 --> 56:26.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it was pretty cool.
[56:26.870 --> 56:27.070]  [SPEAKER_19]: Great.
[56:27.170 --> 56:28.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: You'll be back in 2004, I hope.
[56:28.550 --> 56:29.010]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, hell yeah.
[56:29.150 --> 56:29.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Heck yeah.
[56:29.730 --> 56:30.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: What can I say?
[56:30.410 --> 56:31.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can say hell.
[56:31.270 --> 56:31.730]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, you can say that.
[56:31.950 --> 56:33.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's about the line the FCC draws for us.
[56:34.030 --> 56:34.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: Definitely.
[56:34.650 --> 56:35.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: Let's take another phone call.
[56:35.490 --> 56:35.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good evening.
[56:35.790 --> 56:36.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: You're on the air.
[56:36.610 --> 56:36.870]  Yes.
[56:37.410 --> 56:37.790]  [SPEAKER_19]: Speak up.
[56:39.950 --> 56:40.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: Real quick.
[56:40.750 --> 56:40.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes.
[56:41.070 --> 56:45.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know if you know it, but car rental agencies are now using GPS to track you.
[56:45.030 --> 56:46.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: And there's a whole issue on...
[56:46.270 --> 56:46.510]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes.
[56:46.870 --> 56:49.090]  [SPEAKER_13]: ...that somebody is suing them because they went out of state.
[56:49.170 --> 56:49.970]  [SPEAKER_19]: In Connecticut, yeah.
[56:50.090 --> 56:50.930]  [SPEAKER_19]: I heard about that case.
[56:51.010 --> 56:52.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: In fact, I rented a car with GPS in it.
[56:52.670 --> 56:53.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: It was a lot of fun.
[56:53.530 --> 56:54.270]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, it's great.
[56:54.430 --> 56:54.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[56:54.670 --> 56:55.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: You never lost the system?
[56:55.950 --> 56:59.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, unless you put in an address for New York, New York, it'll take you to Brooklyn for some reason.
[56:59.350 --> 56:59.470]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, really?
[56:59.470 --> 56:59.730]  [SPEAKER_19]: No, no.
[56:59.730 --> 57:03.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: These people went from Texas to Arizona and they got charged $5,000.
[57:03.590 --> 57:06.890]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I think one of the cases, people were speeding and that got logged.
[57:06.890 --> 57:12.290]  [SPEAKER_19]: But yeah, you know, you have to be careful because these things, people are going to say, yeah, that makes sense because it's a safety issue.
[57:12.450 --> 57:18.610]  [SPEAKER_19]: How many parents out there today are going to say, yeah, I'll put GPS into my kid because that way he won't be abducted and kidnapped and things like that.
[57:18.610 --> 57:19.450]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's a safety issue.
[57:19.650 --> 57:21.590]  [SPEAKER_19]: Once you do these things, they never go away.
[57:21.790 --> 57:27.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, there's a company called Digital Angel that wants to put a chip into a person's body and they're going to do it for children.
[57:27.270 --> 57:27.610]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh-huh.
[57:27.690 --> 57:28.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think that's pretty dangerous.
[57:28.930 --> 57:30.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, I think so too.
[57:30.250 --> 57:31.890]  [SPEAKER_19]: Imagine never being able to hide.
[57:32.690 --> 57:34.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, well, what do you have to hide from?
[57:34.270 --> 57:35.250]  [SPEAKER_11]: People are going to ask these questions.
[57:35.250 --> 57:45.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's a company, a guy I know, that what they're doing is they're calculating all the GPS data that's coming up from rental cars and they can figure out what the traffic is like so they don't need traffic copters anymore.
[57:46.390 --> 57:46.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh.
[57:46.870 --> 57:47.190]  [SPEAKER_11]: Interesting.
[57:47.670 --> 57:49.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, they can see how fast you're going on the highway.
[57:50.370 --> 57:54.750]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, there's always a technical benefit, but there's always a really scary big brother aspect to it.
[57:55.090 --> 57:55.950]  [SPEAKER_19]: Folks, we're out of time.
[57:56.010 --> 57:57.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: Unfortunately, I wish we could talk about this forever.
[57:57.550 --> 57:59.030]  [SPEAKER_19]: Phil, I hope you come back in the future.
[57:59.030 --> 57:59.330]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, definitely.
[57:59.450 --> 57:59.530]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'd love to.
[57:59.530 --> 58:04.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: And we'll talk about your site and about the other adventures you're bound to be going through because of the things that are on your site.
[58:04.130 --> 58:05.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: Again, eftcompany.com.
[58:05.890 --> 58:14.330]  [SPEAKER_19]: We can't say the word, but you have another site, luckedcompany.com, for the good news side of what's going on on your site.
[58:14.750 --> 58:17.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: Again, thanks for stopping by and best of luck with...
[58:17.570 --> 58:17.930]  [SPEAKER_19]: My pleasure.
[58:18.170 --> 58:21.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: ...all your legal problems and with Ford and that kind of thing.
[58:21.410 --> 58:21.710]  [SPEAKER_19]: Me too.
[58:22.070 --> 58:22.450]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right.
[58:22.630 --> 58:23.630]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, we're going to need it.
[58:24.310 --> 58:26.910]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm not sure if we're going to be here next week or the week after.
[58:27.110 --> 58:29.510]  [SPEAKER_19]: We're told it's iffy either way, both times.
[58:30.170 --> 58:33.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: Stick to the website, www.2600.com.
[58:33.310 --> 58:33.850]  [SPEAKER_19]: We'll let you know there.
[58:34.050 --> 58:34.210]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good night.
[58:37.450 --> 58:38.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good night.
[58:54.650 --> 58:54.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll be right back.
[59:38.830 --> 59:40.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, WBAI supporter.
[59:41.110 --> 59:45.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Elections are coming to WBAI and its sister stations in the Pacifica Network.
[59:46.190 --> 59:52.330]  [SPEAKER_01]: And for the first time in its history, WBAI's local board will be elected by listeners like you.
[59:52.810 --> 01:00:06.610]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to know more about who can vote, who can run for a seat on the board, and other important election matters, join us and other members of the WBAI community on Thursday, September 5th, 6.30 p.m.
[01:00:06.630 --> 01:00:11.090]  [SPEAKER_01]: at 123 East 15th Street for an informational evening.
[01:00:11.770 --> 01:00:19.870]  [SPEAKER_01]: Keep in mind, we were only able to regain the station and the network once listeners were informed and got involved.
[01:00:20.090 --> 01:00:22.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: So don't let this opportunity go by.
[01:00:22.470 --> 01:00:24.690]  [SPEAKER_01]: Get informed and get involved.
[01:00:25.130 --> 01:00:28.990]  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, that's Thursday, September 5th, 6.30 p.m.
[01:00:29.010 --> 01:00:31.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: at 123 East 15th Street.
[01:00:31.250 --> 01:00:39.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: For more information, visit WBAI.net or call 212-465-7562.
[01:00:39.630 --> 01:00:46.030]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's WBAI.net or call 212-465-7562.
[01:00:46.410 --> 01:00:47.250]  [SPEAKER_01]: See you there.
[01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:53.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: WBAI.net or call 212-465-7562.
[01:00:53.600 --> 01:01:07.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: Abarigani, this is Ilum Bey Brat, inviting you to tune into Africa Radiscope, an analytical program of news, views, reviews, and previews concerned with political, social, cultural, and economic affairs impacting on the Panath and...
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