Off The Hook - 2002-11-13

[00:00.740 --> 00:05.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: In my opinion, the outgoing government has paid a lot of attention to big industries and banks.
[00:05.780 --> 00:10.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: There are no less than 12 million people out of a job, and I hope that he does something about this.
[00:11.060 --> 00:14.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Alexandre Spatouza, Free Speech Radio, New Sao Paulo, Brazil.
[00:15.800 --> 00:20.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Today's newscast was produced by Kata Mesta at Pacifica Station, KPST in Houston.
[00:21.260 --> 00:22.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm Deepal Fernandes.
[00:24.240 --> 00:26.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this is WBAI in New York.
[00:26.600 --> 00:32.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: This week, the time is 7.01, and that means it's time for Off the Hook.
[00:34.100 --> 00:35.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: That means it's time for this button not to work.
[00:35.940 --> 00:37.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hold on, let's find out what the problem is this week.
[00:38.180 --> 00:39.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ah, that's the right button.
[00:40.000 --> 00:40.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[00:41.220 --> 00:42.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Same button I just pressed.
[01:52.050 --> 01:55.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is WBAI.
[02:37.640 --> 02:38.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: And a good evening to everybody.
[02:38.680 --> 02:39.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, the program is Off the Hook.
[02:39.820 --> 02:46.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you this Wednesday night, as we are, well, just about every Wednesday night, and I think it's the second week in a row we've been on.
[02:47.320 --> 02:48.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, that's true.
[02:49.760 --> 02:50.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're going for the record here.
[02:51.200 --> 02:56.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: And hopefully we'll make it every Wednesday night until the end of the year, at least, and then see what happens after that.
[02:57.300 --> 02:58.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, let's see.
[02:58.100 --> 02:59.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Who's not here tonight?
[02:59.160 --> 02:59.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Jim is not here.
[02:59.900 --> 03:03.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's kind of ominous since he went for this MTA hearing last week.
[03:04.180 --> 03:05.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: I wonder where he is.
[03:05.240 --> 03:05.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe he's late.
[03:05.980 --> 03:09.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe he got on the subway like I did tonight and almost didn't make it.
[03:10.560 --> 03:14.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mike's not here either, but we know that he didn't get on the subway train.
[03:14.240 --> 03:17.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: He has other plans for tonight, things that are more important than being here.
[03:19.380 --> 03:19.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[03:20.300 --> 03:21.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: But Jeff is here.
[03:21.320 --> 03:21.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Jeff, how are you?
[03:21.600 --> 03:22.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, yes.
[03:22.120 --> 03:24.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: I made it despite the bus system from New Jersey.
[03:24.720 --> 03:26.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, okay, we're going to compete in a second here.
[03:26.360 --> 03:26.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[03:26.580 --> 03:26.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[03:27.080 --> 03:29.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bus versus subway stories, but also surprise guests.
[03:29.900 --> 03:30.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's Claude.
[03:30.540 --> 03:30.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: How are you doing?
[03:31.340 --> 03:32.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know how that microphone works there?
[03:33.380 --> 03:33.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well...
[03:33.760 --> 03:34.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: You hold it in front of your face.
[03:35.360 --> 03:38.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Don't bat it around like, you know, a ping pong ball or whatever.
[03:38.340 --> 03:38.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Quite.
[03:38.840 --> 03:39.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[03:40.080 --> 03:42.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: I had no particular problems on the subway.
[03:42.420 --> 03:52.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: They actually were operating better than they did since that unfortunate incident at the World Trade Center.
[03:52.980 --> 03:55.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, well, you know, you can only use that as an excuse for so long.
[03:57.640 --> 03:59.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're still tormenting you, apparently.
[03:59.240 --> 04:03.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I mean, okay, I'll get into my story real quick because I don't want to spend very much time with it.
[04:03.120 --> 04:11.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: But basically, I wish Jim was here to answer this question, but I cannot for the life of me understand why you're waiting for a train for like 20 minutes.
[04:11.400 --> 04:15.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, there should be trains every five minutes, but you're waiting for 20 minutes and nothing comes.
[04:15.740 --> 04:17.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: And every single other track has a train.
[04:17.400 --> 04:20.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone's happy on all the other tracks, but your track has nothing.
[04:20.180 --> 04:24.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: And so finally, a train comes on your track and it skips the station.
[04:24.320 --> 04:25.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: It just goes right past the station.
[04:25.780 --> 04:27.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not even filled with all that many people.
[04:27.580 --> 04:29.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's got like, you know, a few people, but not that many.
[04:29.840 --> 04:37.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then 10 minutes later, a train that has everybody in the city on it shows up and they all look miserable and you can barely fit on the thing.
[04:38.040 --> 04:40.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: And a lot of people opt not to fit on it and wait for the next one.
[04:41.640 --> 04:45.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm sure the reason has got something to do with they're late and they're trying to catch up to their schedule.
[04:45.280 --> 04:50.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, you know, what difference does it make if they're on time on the very last station where nobody is anyway, you know?
[04:51.240 --> 04:57.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wouldn't it make more sense to serve the people at the stations they're passing rather than try and beat the clock?
[04:57.360 --> 05:02.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think that enables them to say that they were on time, but when they really weren't on time, you know?
[05:02.440 --> 05:03.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what I think was going on there.
[05:04.500 --> 05:11.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: But eventually, eventually I managed to get on to, you know, you have to leave like a lot of time, a lot of time to, you know, to get someplace.
[05:11.840 --> 05:14.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I got to ride on a Redbird, so I'm happy about that.
[05:14.000 --> 05:15.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, the story's not too bad.
[05:15.920 --> 05:16.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, what happened to you, Jeff?
[05:16.820 --> 05:17.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: You came from New Jersey, right?
[05:18.080 --> 05:18.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[05:18.360 --> 05:19.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I always come from New Jersey.
[05:19.580 --> 05:24.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: I left 4.30, got on the, well, 4.35, 4.40 bus by that time.
[05:25.340 --> 05:32.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: And normally what takes about 45 minutes to get in took tonight, I got into the city at 6.30.
[05:32.960 --> 05:33.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Really?
[05:33.400 --> 05:34.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: So what's going on out there?
[05:34.400 --> 05:35.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's traffic.
[05:35.460 --> 05:35.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Traffic, yeah.
[05:35.720 --> 05:36.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Stupid traffic.
[05:36.640 --> 05:37.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's the thing with buses, you know?
[05:37.920 --> 05:41.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Buses are part of the traffic, so they can't, you know, go underground and skip over the traffic.
[05:41.900 --> 05:44.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: You would figure trains would be able to get this right.
[05:45.280 --> 05:46.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they usually do.
[05:46.340 --> 05:47.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: At least New York City subways do.
[05:47.640 --> 05:49.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: But they used to, in the mornings, they have bus lanes.
[05:50.040 --> 05:52.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know why it doesn't count when you're still moving a mass of people.
[05:52.580 --> 05:56.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because you're not part of that mass of people that works 9 to 5.
[05:56.780 --> 05:59.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: See, that's the people that get preferential treatment.
[05:59.820 --> 06:02.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we're going to discriminate for the people that work later?
[06:02.660 --> 06:02.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[06:03.160 --> 06:03.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: We always have.
[06:04.120 --> 06:04.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sorry.
[06:04.620 --> 06:05.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Always, yeah.
[06:06.700 --> 06:07.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Not part of the norm.
[06:07.980 --> 06:09.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, that's the problem.
[06:09.860 --> 06:10.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[06:10.140 --> 06:12.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, we've had worse stories, I'm sure.
[06:12.420 --> 06:16.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's just too bad Jim's not here to counter them with MTA logic.
[06:16.780 --> 06:21.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Of course, it's MTA logic that's gotten him into trouble, so we'll report on that as we learn more.
[06:22.800 --> 06:23.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's see.
[06:23.200 --> 06:24.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: We've got a lot of mail.
[06:24.160 --> 06:24.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: We've got a lot of news.
[06:25.200 --> 06:26.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we're going to take a lot of phone calls.
[06:26.780 --> 06:29.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: So let's get to it.
[06:30.120 --> 06:36.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: First, there is an exhibit downtown, which I'd like to drop by after the show.
[06:37.080 --> 06:37.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if you guys are into this.
[06:38.120 --> 06:38.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sure.
[06:38.760 --> 06:40.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's at CBGB's.
[06:40.100 --> 06:43.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I guess we can say we'll be appearing at CBGB's after the show, which is something I've always wanted to say.
[06:43.900 --> 06:45.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: It opens tonight, right now.
[06:45.840 --> 06:46.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, you know about this?
[06:47.140 --> 06:48.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's on your webpage, of course it is.
[06:48.720 --> 06:49.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Nobody reads the webpage.
[06:49.700 --> 06:50.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[06:50.600 --> 06:58.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, people send me mail with news stories about something that we have on the webpage three days after we put it on the webpage and expect me to think it's news, you know.
[07:00.020 --> 07:00.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's really funny.
[07:00.920 --> 07:02.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: But okay, I'm glad you read the webpage.
[07:02.320 --> 07:03.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's good to know.
[07:03.860 --> 07:05.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: So why don't you tell us about it then?
[07:06.120 --> 07:17.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: All I know is that it's the Illegal Art Show, which is basically based on all copyright objects, the art, that have been used in other areas that shouldn't be used.
[07:18.220 --> 07:26.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: And just reading through all of the information and the end user agreement that pops up when you go to their site is very entertaining.
[07:27.160 --> 07:27.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[07:27.400 --> 07:28.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: But of course, very poignant as well.
[07:28.820 --> 07:32.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: They do make a very good point of trying to let you know why they're doing this.
[07:32.580 --> 07:38.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: The exhibit runs from tonight through December 6th, and it takes place at CBGB's 313 Gallery.
[07:38.700 --> 07:43.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: And coincidentally, that's located at 313 Bowery in downtown Manhattan.
[07:43.380 --> 07:44.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right next to the club.
[07:44.400 --> 07:44.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[07:44.760 --> 07:49.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, you know, it kind of annoys me that they decided to start at 7 o'clock p.m., which is the time our show starts.
[07:49.880 --> 07:52.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I guess we can't control everybody.
[07:53.280 --> 08:01.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, yeah, right now, even as we speak, there are people who have turned off the radio and are heading to CBGB's 313 Gallery to see this show.
[08:03.140 --> 08:04.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: We should have saved it for the end.
[08:04.540 --> 08:07.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll be leaving here and going there after the show.
[08:07.160 --> 08:10.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: And hopefully our listeners will keep the radio on or carry something with them so they can hear it.
[08:11.180 --> 08:13.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: How many people have radio in their homes anymore?
[08:13.080 --> 08:14.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you listen to radio in your house?
[08:14.620 --> 08:15.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: I asked a bunch of people this.
[08:15.940 --> 08:16.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Every day.
[08:16.620 --> 08:17.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: You do?
[08:17.140 --> 08:17.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Every day.
[08:17.560 --> 08:19.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: But you're unusual in almost every way, so...
[08:19.560 --> 08:22.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Most people listen to, you know, maybe the Internet.
[08:22.820 --> 08:25.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: They listen to streaming radio at their home.
[08:25.860 --> 08:29.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: In the car, they listen to the radio, if they don't have that stupid satellite thing.
[08:30.320 --> 08:34.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I find less people have, you know, the stereo that has a receiver in it that they actually listen to.
[08:35.000 --> 08:35.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: They listen to CDs.
[08:36.040 --> 08:37.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: They, you know, do things on the Internet.
[08:38.180 --> 08:40.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: We listen to shortwave in our cars, too.
[08:40.320 --> 08:40.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: You and I.
[08:47.560 --> 08:53.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have a car that, for some reason, interferes with the AM radio, so I can't listen to any shortwave on my shortwave radio.
[08:53.400 --> 08:54.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the reason...
[08:54.160 --> 08:54.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Nobody can fix it.
[08:55.100 --> 08:58.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, the people that fix radio say it's a mechanical problem, take it to the mechanic.
[08:59.120 --> 09:00.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: The mechanic says it's a radio problem, take it to the radio.
[09:01.080 --> 09:04.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: If there are any people out there that know how to fix everything, I guess we want to hear from you.
[09:04.960 --> 09:07.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: It would be nice to be able to listen to foreign radio while I'm driving.
[09:07.820 --> 09:08.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: It makes things a lot more entertaining.
[09:08.980 --> 09:10.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can bring it out by me.
[09:10.260 --> 09:11.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was one of my high school kids put mine in.
[09:11.800 --> 09:12.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did a great job.
[09:12.500 --> 09:12.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Really?
[09:12.880 --> 09:13.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[09:13.000 --> 09:21.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but does your high school kid understand things like, you know, how to stop electrical interference, which is somewhere inside the car, nobody knows where, only when the engine is running.
[09:21.540 --> 09:22.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: I would bet money they could.
[09:23.120 --> 09:23.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[09:23.860 --> 09:24.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: The sharp kids.
[09:24.740 --> 09:25.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[09:25.320 --> 09:28.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll bet you money on this, because I've been trying for over a year now to get this fixed.
[09:29.380 --> 09:30.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's amazing, the frustration.
[09:32.100 --> 09:34.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, this isn't a show we're just going to bitch about our private lives.
[09:34.740 --> 09:37.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: I really don't want to get into too much of that.
[09:37.800 --> 09:41.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: But let me just finish with the description of the illegal art presentation.
[09:43.000 --> 09:46.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: But here's a slight paragraph from it, so you can get an idea.
[09:46.640 --> 09:52.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: The laws governing intellectual property have grown so expansive in recent years that artists need legal experts to sort them out.
[09:53.440 --> 10:01.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Borrowing from another artwork, as jazz musicians did in the 1930s and Looney Tunes illustrators did in the 1940s, that'll now land you in court.
[10:01.380 --> 10:09.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: If the current copyright laws have been in effect back in the day, whole genres such as collage, hip-hop, and pop art might never have been created.
[10:10.260 --> 10:13.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, um, the irony couldn't be more stark.
[10:13.620 --> 10:14.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Rooted in the U.S.
[10:14.960 --> 10:20.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Constitution, copyright was originally intended to facilitate the exchange of ideas, but is now being used to stifle it.
[10:20.660 --> 10:26.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the illegal art exhibit will celebrate what is rapidly becoming the degenerate art of a corporate age.
[10:26.220 --> 10:29.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Art and ideas on the legal fringes of intellectual property.
[10:29.320 --> 10:32.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, there's going to be all kinds of interesting displays.
[10:32.280 --> 10:38.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Also, there's a film and video fest, uh, November 14th, that's tomorrow, through 17th.
[10:38.400 --> 10:39.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, George W.
[10:39.800 --> 10:41.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bush meets the Teletubbies.
[10:41.180 --> 10:42.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Barbie tries a new job.
[10:42.980 --> 10:46.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, Pikachu, am I pronouncing that right?
[10:46.340 --> 10:46.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Pikachu.
[10:46.880 --> 10:47.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Pikachu.
[10:47.600 --> 10:49.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not up in my Pokemon culture, I'm sorry.
[10:50.300 --> 10:53.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, uh, Pikachu makes a friend and more.
[10:53.380 --> 10:56.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Watch digitized versions of the films and videos.
[10:56.540 --> 10:59.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: I imagine that'll be taking place at, uh, CBGB's as well.
[10:59.240 --> 11:06.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, there's an NYU panel discussion, November 15th, at 7 p.m., featuring none other than Mark Hosler, who appeared at H2K2.
[11:06.660 --> 11:08.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mark Hosler from Negativland.
[11:08.600 --> 11:15.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, in addition to, uh, Howard Besser, the Associate Professor of Cinema Studies and Director of the Moving Image and Archiving Program at NYU.
[11:15.960 --> 11:21.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, Stephen Feld, uh, Natalie Jeremjenko, techno artist, design engineer.
[11:21.640 --> 11:25.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, by the way, Stephen Feld is Professor of Music and Anthropology at Columbia University.
[11:25.820 --> 11:28.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, Rebecca Tushnet of NYU Law School.
[11:28.320 --> 11:33.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: And Meg McLaughlin, Associate Professor in Anthropology, uh, will be the moderator.
[11:33.280 --> 11:37.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: So that's taking place, uh, at the NYU Cantor Film Center, 36 East 8th Street.
[11:38.140 --> 11:39.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: All these events are free.
[11:39.640 --> 11:47.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: And also a free compilation CD is going to be given away at exhibit events featuring illegal tracks from Public Enemy, Negativland, John Oswald, The Beastie Boys, and more.
[11:48.600 --> 11:53.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, if we're able to get in there and get one of those free CDs, we're going to play part of it next week on the radio.
[11:53.700 --> 11:54.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because that's what we do.
[11:54.380 --> 11:55.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: We play illegal things.
[11:56.740 --> 11:59.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, so, uh, that's a bit of fun right there.
[11:59.900 --> 12:05.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Speaking of all this legal mumbo-jumbo and, and, and crap like that, um, guess what?
[12:05.880 --> 12:11.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have to appear tomorrow in a deposition regarding the whole DECSS case yet again.
[12:11.420 --> 12:14.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, you may say, I thought the DECSS case was over.
[12:14.580 --> 12:15.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: I did.
[12:15.600 --> 12:16.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you may say that.
[12:16.940 --> 12:20.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, as it turns out, um, there were two lawsuits.
[12:20.980 --> 12:28.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you, if you go back in time and look at the webpage and how it all developed, we were originally sued by the DVD Copy Control Association.
[12:28.400 --> 12:32.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then, I think, one month after that, we were sued by the Motion Picture Association of America.
[12:33.240 --> 12:46.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, the whole lawsuit that we went through with, uh, you know, federal court and the appeal and, and, and eventually deciding to, you know, to accept the defeat and, uh, hope for a stronger case in the future, that was all the Motion Picture Association of America case,
[12:46.440 --> 12:50.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: which was, um, basically filed under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
[12:51.020 --> 12:55.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: The first case, um, is, uh, the DVD Copy Control Association.
[12:55.800 --> 12:57.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: That was filed in a California court.
[12:58.560 --> 13:01.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, we had always maintained that they do not have jurisdiction.
[13:01.740 --> 13:04.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, apparently they ruled that they do.
[13:05.140 --> 13:07.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not entirely sure of the legalities.
[13:07.200 --> 13:09.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: All I know is I have to report to, uh, to someplace.
[13:09.800 --> 13:10.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: I gotta find out where tomorrow.
[13:10.800 --> 13:11.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: You don't have...
[13:11.440 --> 13:15.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Answer, answer, get more questions about this stupid thing, which hasn't been on our website for two and a half years.
[13:15.560 --> 13:16.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: It just won't die.
[13:16.800 --> 13:17.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: It won't go away.
[13:17.480 --> 13:18.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: You don't have to go out there, though.
[13:18.960 --> 13:19.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I don't have to go out there.
[13:20.700 --> 13:22.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: I wouldn't mind going out there, but no, I don't have to go out there.
[13:23.040 --> 13:24.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have to go somewhere here.
[13:24.960 --> 13:27.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, uh, yeah, that's, uh, that's what I have to worry about.
[13:27.640 --> 13:28.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, it just never ends.
[13:30.600 --> 13:36.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, uh, I guess, uh, I guess there'll be a report on that next week when we, uh, know what happened to that particular thing.
[13:37.020 --> 13:38.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, what else is going on?
[13:38.300 --> 13:39.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, this is important.
[13:39.100 --> 13:44.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is something that really rubs me the wrong way, as people may well know after all these years.
[13:44.920 --> 13:52.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Non-commercial radio, the threat, what's happening to it, what's been going on on the FM dial lately.
[13:54.440 --> 14:05.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's been a lot of stations around here that have fallen, that have been taken over by either corporate interest, religious interest, NPR interest, you name it.
[14:05.020 --> 14:11.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: A lot of independent voices silenced, a lot of frequencies turned over to more powerful interests.
[14:12.800 --> 14:16.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it looks like it's going to be happening all over again.
[14:17.780 --> 14:24.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Students who run the radio station at the CW Post Campus of Long Island University say administrators are tuning them out.
[14:24.700 --> 14:27.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: This comes from a Newsday article, which appeared last week.
[14:28.460 --> 14:40.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: They worry that their days of controlling WCWP, which can be received at 88.1 FM, their days of controlling that station, playing music ranging from hip-hop to Latin, will be over.
[14:40.440 --> 14:50.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Under a plan, university officials recently announced the students will gradually lose their airtime to expand the Long Island University Public Radio Network.
[14:51.360 --> 14:51.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[14:52.500 --> 14:54.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Which, uh...
[14:54.020 --> 14:55.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know what that spells.
[14:55.700 --> 15:07.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: University officials hope that expanding Long Island's first public radio network will provide a service to the community and by relying on public donations could offset the $980,000 a year it costs to run the station.
[15:08.060 --> 15:09.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's just bogus right there.
[15:09.840 --> 15:16.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's no way, uh, one station or even a handful of stations of that nature could cost that kind of money.
[15:16.720 --> 15:19.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: University stations, you can run them on a tenth of that, easily.
[15:20.560 --> 15:21.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not the most pleasant place.
[15:22.000 --> 15:25.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: You won't have the most updated of equipment, but, uh, you know, that's not what it's all about.
[15:25.720 --> 15:29.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's about, uh, you know, broadcasting, learning radio, that kind of thing.
[15:29.400 --> 15:32.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what college radio is all about, playing alternative music.
[15:34.520 --> 15:34.880]  Um...
[15:35.340 --> 15:39.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's troublesome to me that they're referring to this as Long Island's first public radio network.
[15:39.580 --> 15:41.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: First of all, there are public radio stations everywhere.
[15:42.120 --> 15:45.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Anytime you have a non-commercial station that serves the public, um...
[15:45.420 --> 15:46.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's a public radio station.
[15:47.160 --> 15:50.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not just the, uh, the domain of National Public Radio.
[15:50.280 --> 15:52.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: They seem to have taken over the phrase, and that's not entirely fair.
[15:52.760 --> 15:55.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're a public radio station here, and we've got nothing to do with NPR.
[15:57.420 --> 15:57.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um...
[15:57.860 --> 15:59.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's really sad to see this happening yet again.
[16:00.020 --> 16:13.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, this, uh, so-called network, which is already operating out of the school's Southampton campus station, WLIU 88.3, uh, is run by radio professionals playing only jazz and news, including National Public Radio Broadcast.
[16:13.540 --> 16:25.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: I should point out that, uh, WLIU also kicked all of its students off the air a number of years ago, uh, when this, um, the, I guess the start of this expansion, uh, was introduced.
[16:25.460 --> 16:31.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, WLIU used to be known as WPBX, and they used to be at 91.3, I think, or something like that.
[16:32.180 --> 16:44.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and it was really sad to see all the students at this, the only non-commercial station that far east on the island, uh, being kicked off the air, and, uh, having it turned over to satellite dishes, which is basically what it amounts to.
[16:45.540 --> 16:57.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, come January 1st, three of the six hours WCWP is now on the air per day will go to programming from Southampton, a move that post-students say robs them of their broadcast training ground.
[16:58.040 --> 17:05.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, the university's intentions show no consideration for students at all, said WCWP News Director Joe Sacco of Queens.
[17:05.860 --> 17:08.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, now students have free reign between 7 p.m.
[17:08.440 --> 17:15.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: and 1 a.m., which, you know, that alone is, is kind of offensive, that they only have students on for such a short amount of time.
[17:15.240 --> 17:16.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a student radio station, for God's sake.
[17:17.060 --> 17:17.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's run by students.
[17:17.900 --> 17:18.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was made for students.
[17:19.000 --> 17:28.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: And here they are turning it over to, uh, this, uh, national broadcast entity and, and playing, playing music that, uh, you know, is not that hard to find other parts of the dial.
[17:28.760 --> 17:34.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, there's a jazz station at 88.3 in, uh, Newark, New Jersey that, uh, you can hear jazz on.
[17:34.060 --> 17:37.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, and, and, you know, anybody is free on any college station to play jazz if they want to.
[17:38.060 --> 17:39.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: What better place to learn?
[17:39.440 --> 17:46.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: What better place to explore music and, uh, hear different things rather than the same thing coming from all different stations at the same time?
[17:46.520 --> 17:58.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, Wallace Smith, WLIU's general manager, uh, WLIU being the Southampton station, who spearheaded the change on behalf of the university, said, eventually the three remaining hours will go to the network.
[17:58.840 --> 18:07.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're building a professional service that will enhance the image of the university, Smith said, at a recent meeting with students and alumni before he was pelted with fruit and various other objects.
[18:07.660 --> 18:13.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Smith said students will have an opportunity to intern at the network, but it is unlikely students will host their own shows like they do now.
[18:13.820 --> 18:26.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: So basically they can, like, go and get coffee for people and, uh, you know, learn how they have absolutely no power in radio at all rather than actually being behind the microphone starting, uh, to talk about various things and learning.
[18:26.420 --> 18:27.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, I would never be here now.
[18:28.060 --> 18:31.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if people consider that a good thing, but I would never be here now or not for college radio.
[18:31.940 --> 18:36.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, I got my start at WUSB in Stony Brook, which I think is like the only station left now.
[18:36.840 --> 18:40.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, there's WRHU in Hofstra, but there's so few of them.
[18:40.480 --> 18:41.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: There used to be so many.
[18:41.600 --> 18:43.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: And now they all are broadcasting the same thing.
[18:43.760 --> 18:44.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's sick.
[18:44.780 --> 18:46.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, they're saying this like there's a need.
[18:46.880 --> 18:50.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's a need in Nassau County to have NPR.
[18:51.340 --> 18:56.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: There are already maybe three or four different signals you can get in that area of NPR programming.
[18:56.520 --> 19:02.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: So why the need to take over yet another independent voice, uh, with the same old thing?
[19:02.700 --> 19:05.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: So, so what do you think is the need?
[19:05.320 --> 19:07.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're just trying to squelch all their competition?
[19:07.440 --> 19:17.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's basically a combination between, um, the power of NPR, the way they can throw money around, and, uh, the desire of the university to, to look good.
[19:17.380 --> 19:19.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, to have a polished professional sound.
[19:20.260 --> 19:20.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know.
[19:20.740 --> 19:21.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: To enter the big leagues.
[19:21.820 --> 19:22.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.
[19:22.520 --> 19:27.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: They don't want a bunch of students, you know, playing around on the radio, which is something that the community can hear.
[19:27.800 --> 19:29.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: They want, you know, the sound of professional people.
[19:30.080 --> 19:39.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: It, it defeats the whole purpose of non-commercial radio, which, uh, was to introduce people to radio, introduce listeners to alternatives, and there's so few alternatives anymore.
[19:40.420 --> 19:43.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, anyway, uh, many students are upset, predictably.
[19:44.340 --> 19:47.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, we might as well sit in a classroom and watch them do it, Sacco said.
[19:47.980 --> 19:48.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: He said he envisions...
[19:48.840 --> 19:51.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I didn't even, I didn't even realize he said this.
[19:51.060 --> 19:53.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: He said he envisions fetching coffee and having no hands-on experience.
[19:55.240 --> 19:56.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: I, I, I skimmed the article.
[19:56.760 --> 19:57.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't read it.
[19:57.300 --> 19:58.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: I didn't see that line.
[19:58.160 --> 19:59.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, uh, it's good to know people are thinking the same way.
[20:00.360 --> 20:05.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: A college station is a place to apply classroom training and provides an artistic outlet, the students said.
[20:06.260 --> 20:11.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, imagine all the artists, all the music that would not be heard were not for college radio.
[20:11.520 --> 20:19.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can you imagine, you know, if you, if you just played the, uh, the computer program music that, uh, that Arbitron says is, uh, is popular these days.
[20:20.140 --> 20:22.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's so many people that would never have a voice.
[20:22.560 --> 20:24.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: People who have nothing to do with the station.
[20:24.260 --> 20:24.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Musicians.
[20:24.760 --> 20:25.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: They would never have airplay.
[20:27.680 --> 20:32.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'd rather have internships somewhere else at the station's programming director, Billy Haust of East Meadow.
[20:32.600 --> 20:38.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, seven full-time radio professionals have been hired for this undertaking, and that's going to cost a lot of money right there.
[20:38.560 --> 20:39.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's your 90,000.
[20:40.000 --> 20:41.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, yeah, yeah.
[20:41.540 --> 20:43.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: That will definitely blow a lot of money right there.
[20:44.200 --> 20:56.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, the, uh, WLIU general manager, the, uh, guy who's moving in, taking over this other station, boasts of hiring Hempstead native Jim Ascendio from KFWB in Los Angeles to be the station's news director.
[20:56.660 --> 20:59.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Nothing like a professional to do a college radio station's job.
[21:00.140 --> 21:03.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, Smith said for the network to succeed, its programming needs to be consistent.
[21:03.940 --> 21:08.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: At the meeting, he defended the choice to play jazz, calling it America's True Music Forum.
[21:09.200 --> 21:15.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that may or may not be, but, uh, the fact of the matter is, it's, it's how you program the station, not what you put on it.
[21:16.200 --> 21:24.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you can say that news is important, and program 24-hour news all the time, but if you have a bunch of professionals doing it on a college frequency, uh, it's kind of hypocritical.
[21:25.500 --> 21:31.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: He maintained that the decision was not meant to discredit students' work, but he also said, I may not agree with some of the music you play in the evenings.
[21:32.060 --> 21:43.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, he said student voices are not being muffled because they still will have the chance to broadcast over a cable frequency, which is heard only sporadically on campus, and they also can continue broadcasting over the internet.
[21:43.420 --> 21:44.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, how about that?
[21:44.500 --> 21:46.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: They can continue broadcasting over the internet.
[21:46.360 --> 21:46.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you know what?
[21:46.860 --> 21:49.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: They can continue to speak out loud and, and, and stand on boxes and yell.
[21:50.440 --> 21:51.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can they stop...
[21:51.180 --> 21:52.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's not going to deny them that right.
[21:52.680 --> 21:54.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can they stop them from doing the internet?
[21:55.320 --> 21:56.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: They can certainly try.
[21:58.540 --> 21:59.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: But you're looking at the future here.
[21:59.880 --> 22:03.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is probably what's going to happen in, uh, in, in, in years ahead.
[22:03.200 --> 22:06.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: They will probably try and, uh, take over the internet like they've taken over the FM waves.
[22:08.120 --> 22:11.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just hope it doesn't cross over into so many other areas.
[22:11.180 --> 22:12.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know as an educator...
[22:12.180 --> 22:13.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the same mentality.
[22:13.360 --> 22:23.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but, but to, to, to think that kids wouldn't be allowed to use a computer in a classroom, you know, because it's, the professionals need it or they can't produce work.
[22:23.860 --> 22:38.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're talking about WCWP, the latest station to be, uh, um, faced with oblivion thanks to corporate interests and, uh, National Public Radio and, uh, Arbitrons and all the usual stuff that takes alternative voices off the air.
[22:38.200 --> 22:41.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: And we're going to have, uh, a URL for you to go to if you want to do something about this.
[22:41.740 --> 22:42.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: You don't have to be in the area.
[22:42.840 --> 22:45.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: People all over the world can comment on this and I think the more people who do, the better.
[22:47.000 --> 22:54.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, Dale Traverso, uh, 19, a computer science major listens to the station during his drive home to Queens.
[22:54.260 --> 22:59.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: He said he wouldn't listen on the internet and cringed when asked if he would tune into an all-jazz and news station.
[22:59.860 --> 23:05.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: I like what they talk about, he said, of current WCWP programming including discussions about campus dining services.
[23:05.060 --> 23:06.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: They're very student-friendly.
[23:08.840 --> 23:19.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, students denounced both, uh, both options that, um, Smith gave of, uh, cable broadcasting and listening on the internet saying that CWPost is primarily a commuter school.
[23:19.520 --> 23:24.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Only about 1,200 of 12,000 students live on campus and they reach people in their cars with the FM frequency.
[23:28.540 --> 23:32.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, at the meeting, Smith stressed that the school's responsibility is to the community.
[23:34.160 --> 23:36.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, but alumnus Ted David retorted, this is a school.
[23:36.940 --> 23:38.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: These people pay tuition here.
[23:38.160 --> 23:40.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Your first responsibility is to them.
[23:41.700 --> 23:48.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: He, uh, he worked at the station when he started college in 1968 when students were on the air almost 24 hours a day.
[23:48.800 --> 23:50.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: And he's now an anchor at CNBC.
[23:51.200 --> 23:52.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: But he hasn't lost his values.
[23:53.420 --> 24:00.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: The University of Southern California in Los Angeles made the same change about 30 years ago creating KUSC, a classical music public radio station.
[24:02.560 --> 24:10.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, Smith managed, uh, KUSC from 1970 to 1997 and he used it as a model for WLIU and now for WCWP.
[24:12.060 --> 24:20.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: USC students work behind the scenes at the public radio station and are never on the air, said, uh, Brenda Barnes, President and General Manager of USC Radio.
[24:21.980 --> 24:25.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: And meanwhile, many of the students at WCWP said they plan to quit.
[24:25.180 --> 24:27.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: As much as I hate to leave, there's just no reason to stay.
[24:29.160 --> 24:36.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, for those interested in helping the WCWP staff with their plight, um, go over to, uh, this, uh, this URL.
[24:36.340 --> 24:45.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: First of all, there's a, there's a CWP URL, uh, run by former staffers and current staffers that's not officially, uh, sanctioned by the radio station.
[24:45.440 --> 24:52.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's, uh, www.wcwp.net and, uh, you'll find all kinds of information there.
[24:52.440 --> 25:06.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: But also, uh, here, www.petitionpetition.com That's right, petition twice, slash CGI slash petition, again, dot CGI question mark, ID equals 3D4755.
[25:06.920 --> 25:09.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'll read that one more time and only one more time.
[25:09.580 --> 25:17.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: www.petitionpetition.com slash CGI slash petition dot CGI question mark, ID equals three...
[25:17.910 --> 25:18.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was good.
[25:18.440 --> 25:19.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: You did it faster this time.
[25:19.560 --> 25:19.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you.
[25:19.860 --> 25:22.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: 3, uh, 3D4755.
[25:22.940 --> 25:25.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, that's an online petition.
[25:25.480 --> 25:30.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: There were only a few hundred, uh, signatures, um, when, uh, when I checked it a couple days ago.
[25:30.700 --> 25:36.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, uh, I think if, uh, it gets over a thousand by the end of the night, that will mean something.
[25:37.440 --> 25:38.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's no reason why it shouldn't.
[25:39.060 --> 25:41.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do something for, uh, community radio.
[25:41.220 --> 25:47.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: And if there's a community radio station in your area that's, uh, facing oblivion, please let us know about it because we're still here and we can talk about it.
[25:49.240 --> 25:49.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Unbelievable.
[25:50.020 --> 25:51.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's just so annoying to see this happen time after time.
[25:52.820 --> 25:55.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, let's quickly go over some news and, uh, then take some phone calls.
[25:56.600 --> 26:11.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, as Congress prepares to reconvene in a lame duck session after Tuesday, today's, uh, disastrous election, one of the largest pieces of legislation on the Senate's agenda is the controversial and deadlocked Homeland Security Act, uh, which the House passed on September 9th.
[26:12.220 --> 26:24.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, but get this, a little-known amendment in the Senate version of the bill makes it much easier for ISPs to disclose email communications without being served with a warrant, which had been prohibited before the Patriot Act of 2001.
[26:25.340 --> 26:31.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Critics such as Li Tian of the Electronic Frontier Foundation considered the amendment a recipe for privacy abuse.
[26:32.260 --> 26:45.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: According to a press release from Senator Orrin Hatch's office, his amendment intends to provide greater flexibility to communications providers and law enforcement when necessary to prevent and protect against devastating cyber attacks.
[26:46.740 --> 26:48.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, and we all know what that means.
[26:49.460 --> 27:01.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Under the, uh, Patriot Act, ISPs were given the right to disclose to a law enforcement agency the private communications of a customer if the company, quote, reasonably believes that an emergency involving immediate danger of death or serious physical industry,
[27:01.900 --> 27:11.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: industry, all right, let's try this again, serious physical injury, I want to say industry for some reason, I don't know why, to any person requires disclosure of the information without delay.
[27:12.600 --> 27:27.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: the new rules, if adopted, would modify the Patriot Act's fairly strict reasonable belief test with a good faith provision allow disclosure to any federal, state, or local governmental entity, not just law enforcement agencies, and removes an immediacy requirement.
[27:28.520 --> 27:39.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: According to, uh, Li Tian's analysis, the good faith provision would probably allow providers to rely on government assertions of an emergency even if no facts were presented and lead to aggressive behavior on the part of law enforcement.
[27:40.020 --> 27:41.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's, that's the latest theme.
[27:41.640 --> 27:48.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Have you noticed, uh, by, by governments, by our government is, uh, basically pointing to an emergency but providing no facts.
[27:49.080 --> 27:51.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, just saying, well, this is, this is really going to happen.
[27:51.280 --> 27:52.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a horrible thing.
[27:52.780 --> 27:54.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's going to, uh, you know, affect everybody.
[27:54.540 --> 27:55.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, where's the evidence?
[27:55.580 --> 27:56.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, the evidence is there.
[27:56.520 --> 27:58.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: We just, uh, let's talk about something else.
[28:00.160 --> 28:01.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: They never mention the facts.
[28:01.740 --> 28:07.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then, after, after having this drummed into our heads for several weeks, we kind of forget about it because we're sick of talking about it.
[28:07.300 --> 28:10.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: So we just kind of let them do whatever they want to do and we never hear the facts.
[28:11.780 --> 28:19.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Case in point, the, the whole Iraq situation going on right now where, um, you know, we're just aching to bomb Iraq yet again because we haven't done it in a couple of years.
[28:19.480 --> 28:24.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, apart from the bombing we do every day, you know, the massive type of bombing, we really want to test out these new weapons.
[28:24.920 --> 28:31.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I read in this month's Harper's that the last time we had an intelligence report from Iraq was 1998.
[28:32.960 --> 28:33.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: 1998.
[28:33.840 --> 28:34.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Four years ago.
[28:35.320 --> 28:42.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that in 1998 there was no evidence presented of any kind of, uh, of weapons of mass destruction existing.
[28:43.400 --> 28:48.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, how do we know that they exist if we have no information that claim...
[28:48.080 --> 28:50.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, those are just things that you don't think about.
[28:50.780 --> 28:53.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: The threat is there and you have to believe the threat is there.
[28:53.660 --> 28:54.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's all you need.
[28:55.240 --> 29:00.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, the same kind of logic being used against people here in the United States.
[29:02.420 --> 29:02.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[29:03.240 --> 29:05.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, let's read some listener mail.
[29:05.720 --> 29:07.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Our phone number 212-209-2900.
[29:08.140 --> 29:10.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: You do have some good news that you can report on too.
[29:10.540 --> 29:11.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it bears repeating here.
[29:12.080 --> 29:15.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: Freedom downtime is going to be, uh, on air.
[29:15.400 --> 29:15.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's right.
[29:15.880 --> 29:16.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Nationwide.
[29:16.140 --> 29:16.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's right.
[29:16.560 --> 29:17.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do you have the schedule?
[29:17.460 --> 29:19.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's on, uh, free speech TV I believe, right?
[29:19.400 --> 29:19.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have it right here.
[29:19.720 --> 29:19.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay,
[29:25.560 --> 29:28.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: which if you get the DISH network, I understand it's, it's available.
[29:28.960 --> 29:31.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know why they have four-digit channel numbers.
[29:31.720 --> 29:34.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Everything else on that network is, uh, is, is three digits.
[29:34.660 --> 29:36.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: But when it comes up to there, they go four digits.
[29:36.800 --> 29:39.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I have no idea, they don't have a thousand channels.
[29:39.260 --> 29:40.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: They don't have 10,000 channels.
[29:40.600 --> 29:40.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[29:40.760 --> 29:42.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: It makes it sound like they have all these channels.
[29:42.960 --> 29:44.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, uh, yes, channel 9415.
[29:45.240 --> 29:54.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, I think here in New York, maybe one of the BIR listeners can call in and tell us when free speech TV is on, uh, Time Warner Cable, because I'm not sure when it's on that particular network.
[29:55.180 --> 30:02.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it started yesterday, November 12th, and it was on, uh, let's see, 6 a.m., 10 a.m., 2 p.m., 4 p.m., and 10 again.
[30:03.520 --> 30:07.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's on today, uh, at, uh, November 13th, 1 a.m.
[30:07.840 --> 30:08.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: and 3 a.m.
[30:09.340 --> 30:13.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Saturday, you can see it at 6, 10, 2 p.m., and then 4 p.m.
[30:14.660 --> 30:21.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, let's see, Sunday, 1 and 3, Thursday, the 21st, 6, 10, 2, 4, and 10.
[30:22.500 --> 30:26.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, Friday, the 22nd, 1 and 3, those are in the a.m.s.
[30:26.800 --> 30:29.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, Saturday, November 23rd, 6 a.m.
[30:30.320 --> 30:31.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, that's, uh, Great.
[30:31.940 --> 30:33.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's a lot of airtime.
[30:33.060 --> 30:33.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it really is.
[30:34.000 --> 30:34.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: It really is.
[30:34.560 --> 30:36.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm kind of surprised to see it on that many times.
[30:36.680 --> 30:47.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, in interest of confusion, I believe, 9-4-1-5, isn't that B-C-Q, W-B-C-Q's frequency, where you, 7-4-1-5.
[30:47.640 --> 30:48.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you're talking about a short-rave station.
[30:48.880 --> 30:49.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's right.
[30:49.560 --> 30:49.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[30:50.300 --> 30:57.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I do know that a lot of people are, uh, submitting Freedom Downtime to local cable, um, public access as well.
[30:57.460 --> 30:59.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, you might want to try that.
[30:59.620 --> 31:01.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, college stations as well.
[31:01.860 --> 31:04.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, there's all kinds of places you can air this film.
[31:04.160 --> 31:05.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, of course, we welcome people doing this.
[31:06.360 --> 31:10.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, Freedom Downtime is available through our website, it's about two hours.
[31:11.320 --> 31:12.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Actually, it's two hours and one minute.
[31:12.600 --> 31:15.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: They had to shave off, I think, a minute and a half, uh, for this broadcast.
[31:16.340 --> 31:18.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, if you're really good, you might be able to figure out what they shaved off.
[31:19.300 --> 31:21.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I'd like to see it just for that reason myself.
[31:21.900 --> 31:24.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, actually, we shaved it off to give to them.
[31:24.760 --> 31:29.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, it was a while ago, and I forget what it is exactly we shaved, but it wasn't anything horribly major.
[31:29.860 --> 31:30.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[31:30.320 --> 31:32.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: I hate to cut anything, but, uh, you have to eventually.
[31:33.000 --> 31:34.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: The film will be six hours long.
[31:35.480 --> 31:37.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, let's look at some, uh, listener mail.
[31:37.000 --> 31:42.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, whatever the outcome of your wrangling with WBAI, I would like to hear a longer off-the-hook program.
[31:42.560 --> 31:45.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, this should be a contention in your decisions about the program.
[31:45.340 --> 31:47.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's really just getting going after the first hour.
[31:47.240 --> 31:47.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, I agree.
[31:48.100 --> 31:53.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: I feel like, you know, it's starting to get going now, and by the time 8 o'clock rolls around, we're really going to be in full gear, and then we're pulled off the road.
[31:54.060 --> 31:55.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's, um, it's frustrating, I know.
[31:56.040 --> 31:57.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, last week I broke a sweat.
[31:57.460 --> 31:58.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah, it was something to see.
[31:59.340 --> 32:03.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, we need this program, we need to be informed, you are a beacon in the fog of new American fascism.
[32:03.860 --> 32:05.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: I like that line so much, I'm going to read it again.
[32:06.500 --> 32:08.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: You are a beacon in the fog of new American fascism.
[32:09.380 --> 32:10.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
[32:11.560 --> 32:13.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, that's the kind of letter I like to see.
[32:13.960 --> 32:17.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, you know what other kind of letter I like to see are, um, written letters.
[32:18.700 --> 32:21.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: People who write us letters have a much better chance of getting them right over the air.
[32:22.160 --> 32:25.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: To do that, you have to know how to type, and, or write, or whatever.
[32:25.580 --> 32:28.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, we won't read the letters that have, uh, 10 million words on them.
[32:28.440 --> 32:29.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Some people send us those kind of letters, too.
[32:30.420 --> 32:32.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, but send them to, uh, 120 Wall Street, 10th floor.
[32:33.300 --> 32:34.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, actually, I can read the whole address.
[32:34.940 --> 32:40.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Off the hook, care of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, 10th floor, New York, New York, 1-0-0-0-5.
[32:41.520 --> 32:42.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's our zip code.
[32:43.380 --> 32:49.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, dear Emmanuel, Jim, and et cetera, thanks, uh, for again stating why you're on WBAI.
[32:49.880 --> 32:52.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not online, and I love your show.
[32:52.420 --> 32:57.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, the wit and fun, plus all kinds of info, that helps me know, and what I don't understand, well, maybe someday.
[32:58.760 --> 33:02.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, what's, what's going on, keep me, keep me tuned in, et cetera.
[33:02.140 --> 33:06.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: I can ask friends, to get me stuff from the net, but I can't have a computer at this time.
[33:06.520 --> 33:18.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, when, uh, Max Schmied played 1984 on his show during the Troubles, the post-Christmas coup, I was reminded that the, uh, unpresent character, the anarchist, was named Emmanuel Goldstein.
[33:18.360 --> 33:19.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's not a coincidence.
[33:20.500 --> 33:21.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: How do you like that?
[33:21.440 --> 33:21.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: What a world.
[33:22.540 --> 33:28.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, I'm still enjoying the shows in memory where you made calls, and the co-hoster ran outside to test payphones and call in.
[33:29.100 --> 33:30.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: I remember that, and that was, that was the fun days.
[33:31.700 --> 33:33.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, Jim is really bright.
[33:33.580 --> 33:36.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for the radio tower warning on Columbia University's campus.
[33:37.080 --> 33:45.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, there's a manufacturer's warning label on the joystick of my power wheelchair that says, avoid sources of radio waves with symbols for cell phones, radio towers, police, et cetera.
[33:47.300 --> 33:50.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: As much as possible, I warn cell phone users to stay away from power wheelchairs.
[33:51.000 --> 33:55.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: It messes up the power feed and controls the power wheelchairs, causing them at times to shut off or go out of control.
[33:56.020 --> 33:57.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Several deaths have been attributed to this.
[33:57.900 --> 34:01.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I called the manufacturer of my wheelchair, Quickie, in California.
[34:01.280 --> 34:02.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a great name for a wheelchair.
[34:02.840 --> 34:03.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, and asked about it.
[34:04.020 --> 34:06.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have to stay 12 feet from, 12 feet away from cops.
[34:08.080 --> 34:10.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know if that was just general advice.
[34:10.560 --> 34:11.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a good rule of thumb.
[34:11.240 --> 34:11.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[34:12.520 --> 34:17.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: when they're using handheld receivers or, or the thing is, the person asks, what if I'm crossing the street?
[34:17.940 --> 34:20.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: How do I stop in traffic when I'm near a police car?
[34:21.060 --> 34:21.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Unreal.
[34:21.780 --> 34:29.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, but that, uh, that letter from, uh, from Sanda, who says, I might be as old as Kevin Mitnick's grandmother, certainly in his mom's age, age range at the very least.
[34:29.460 --> 34:31.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: And she sent us a picture with her head cut out.
[34:32.520 --> 34:36.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's just a piece of paper with a big hole in it and, a head surrounding it.
[34:37.060 --> 34:38.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: But thanks so much for, for writing in.
[34:38.560 --> 34:41.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: And again, we encourage people to send us letters through the mail.
[34:42.060 --> 34:43.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're talking about the names.
[34:44.040 --> 34:49.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did you know there's a Canadian station, a radio station in Montreal that the program's called Off the Hook?
[34:50.160 --> 34:51.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: I had heard about that.
[34:51.800 --> 34:54.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: I thought we'd send some people up there to take care of that.
[34:55.520 --> 34:56.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, it's, it's still going on.
[34:56.880 --> 34:58.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, well, I'll have to send another group up there.
[34:58.840 --> 35:02.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, uh, yeah, yeah, I had heard about that.
[35:02.420 --> 35:02.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[35:02.660 --> 35:03.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: I had heard about that.
[35:03.520 --> 35:09.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: I also heard that somebody snatched up the domain, offthehook.org or whatever it was that we, uh, we had at one point and forgot to renew.
[35:11.020 --> 35:12.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh well, these things happen.
[35:13.620 --> 35:15.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, Off the Hook, hi, love the show.
[35:16.040 --> 35:19.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: This week you were wondering out loud if 2600.com was blocked in China.
[35:19.680 --> 35:24.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, there's a page on Harvard's website that allows you to enter a URL and check to see if it's blocked or not.
[35:24.860 --> 35:31.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, it's at, uh, cyber.law.harvard.edu slash filtering slash china slash test.
[35:31.880 --> 35:39.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: And 2600.com is not blocked, by the way, so China is actually doing better than, uh, than most of our schools and certainly easy everything.
[35:40.900 --> 35:42.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: But Vietnam isn't.
[35:42.160 --> 35:48.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: The trial of a Vietnamese dissident accused of circulating documents critical of the government is, uh, set to open on Friday.
[35:48.760 --> 36:01.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: uh, Li Chi Quang, a 32-year-old lawyer, was arrested and detained in February after being accused of posting several essays on the internet which condemned the Vietnamese government for its land and sea border agreements with China.
[36:02.040 --> 36:04.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, if found guilty, he could face up to 12 years in prison.
[36:05.000 --> 36:09.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: The trial is to be held in Hanoi, and foreign press have been banned from covering the trial.
[36:09.840 --> 36:11.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's according to a foreign ministry spokeswoman.
[36:12.340 --> 36:24.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, Media Monitoring Organization Committee to Protect Journalists said that Mr. Quang was to be charged under Article 88 of Vietnam's criminal code which banned the dissemination of anti-government information.
[36:24.640 --> 36:34.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, the organization said the charge sheet also referred to Mr. Quang's praising of fellow well-known dissidents and, um, as evidence of his attempts to undermine the state.
[36:34.880 --> 36:42.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, despite Vietnam's constitutional guarantee of a free press, in reality, dissidents take considerable risks if they speak out.
[36:43.060 --> 36:46.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's one of those instances where they tell you you're free, but you're really not.
[36:46.060 --> 36:47.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've heard that before.
[36:47.640 --> 36:51.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, Vietnam has toughened restrictions on the country's media, especially the internet.
[36:52.120 --> 36:54.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Seems to be a theme throughout the world, doesn't it?
[36:54.680 --> 37:03.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, in October, the government announced that all websites based in Vietnam would need a license to prevent poisonous or harmful information from threatening government security.
[37:05.500 --> 37:06.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Great.
[37:07.600 --> 37:10.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's so nice to see the whole world moving in the same direction.
[37:13.380 --> 37:20.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: moving on to a couple of more letters and then, uh, we'll take your phone calls 212-209-2900.
[37:20.920 --> 37:23.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: We do have something to clean up from last week, too.
[37:23.920 --> 37:24.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: I thought you took care of that.
[37:25.380 --> 37:26.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, no.
[37:26.400 --> 37:27.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: We, uh, we mentioned, we mentioned...
[37:27.540 --> 37:28.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's going to be a lot harder to clean up this week.
[37:30.560 --> 37:33.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: We mentioned that we were going to talk about the code for the United States.
[37:34.380 --> 37:36.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yes, yes, you're right.
[37:36.460 --> 37:37.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: The GSM code.
[37:37.880 --> 37:38.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[37:38.020 --> 37:39.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thank you for reminding me of this.
[37:39.560 --> 37:47.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: We asked, and I forgot to mention it to people, um, what the, what the country code was for the United States on the GSM network.
[37:47.820 --> 37:50.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Claude, you have an intelligent look on your face, so I...
[37:50.360 --> 37:51.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, don't be fooled.
[37:52.560 --> 37:54.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, all right, you're just staring to space them.
[37:54.760 --> 37:56.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I forgot to mention the code at the end.
[37:56.600 --> 37:58.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: We said we were going to do it by the end and we didn't.
[37:58.880 --> 37:59.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I had a guess.
[38:00.040 --> 38:01.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, well, okay, what's your guess?
[38:02.040 --> 38:03.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, no, you told me later.
[38:03.100 --> 38:03.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, I told you.
[38:03.700 --> 38:04.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, then you can't guess.
[38:04.700 --> 38:04.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[38:05.060 --> 38:05.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[38:05.500 --> 38:07.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: But we just wanted to say we're sorry for forgetting.
[38:07.980 --> 38:08.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[38:09.200 --> 38:10.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, moving on.
[38:11.400 --> 38:12.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Are we going to tell them?
[38:12.660 --> 38:13.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Do we have to?
[38:13.680 --> 38:13.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[38:14.120 --> 38:14.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[38:14.460 --> 38:20.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, we asked people, we asked people to test the GSM phones in the United States to see if they got two networks.
[38:20.620 --> 38:24.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: And not one person, not one person was able to switch to a different network in this country.
[38:24.760 --> 38:25.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Not one person.
[38:26.480 --> 38:38.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, here in New York, you can, you can see, if you go to the network section of your GSM phone, you can see both either VoiceStream, it's still called VoiceStream on your phone, or, um, uh, what do you call it?
[38:38.660 --> 38:39.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: T-Mobile.
[38:39.780 --> 38:44.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, and also AT&T, which might not be identified as AT&T.
[38:44.340 --> 38:46.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: It might be, uh, phone company number 380.
[38:47.160 --> 38:50.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, uh, those two companies appear on GSM phones.
[38:51.040 --> 38:54.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, if this was another country, you'd be able to switch from one to the other.
[38:54.660 --> 38:56.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, here, they don't do that.
[38:56.500 --> 38:57.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: They don't allow that, at least not yet.
[38:57.860 --> 39:00.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Maybe if there's enough pressure, people can get this done.
[39:01.520 --> 39:04.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: um, but yes, we, we mentioned that every country has a code.
[39:04.940 --> 39:07.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: The country code for the United States is 310.
[39:08.440 --> 39:10.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, uh, that's, uh, that's good information to have.
[39:10.760 --> 39:13.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know what you'd use it for, but 310 is our country code.
[39:13.760 --> 39:18.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: I like it better than 1, which is our country code for regular telephone dialing.
[39:18.360 --> 39:19.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it did start here.
[39:20.400 --> 39:22.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, the phone started here?
[39:22.200 --> 39:27.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I mean, yeah, Alexander Graham Bell and, uh, all those people, I guess, but, uh, I don't know.
[39:27.880 --> 39:33.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: I still think, you know, something a little bit more democratic would be nice, you know.
[39:33.840 --> 39:38.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Other countries have three-digit phone numbers, three-digit, um, country codes, and we have a one-digit country code.
[39:39.640 --> 39:40.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[39:41.120 --> 39:42.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're number one.
[39:42.020 --> 39:43.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Plus, it's not our country code.
[39:43.100 --> 39:48.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're also, uh, we're also sharing it with Canada, so it's kind of, uh, not really our country code anyway.
[39:49.480 --> 39:50.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, what is that?
[39:50.660 --> 39:51.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: An army of one.
[39:51.620 --> 39:53.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Why are you holding up a bumper sticker that says an army of one?
[39:54.140 --> 39:56.240]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's the army slogan these days.
[39:56.240 --> 39:58.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know what it is, but why are you holding it up in this studio?
[39:58.980 --> 40:07.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: In this studio, it's just, you could look at, uh, the country code as being an advertisement for the United States Army.
[40:07.860 --> 40:08.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[40:09.040 --> 40:10.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, it doesn't make much sense.
[40:10.200 --> 40:11.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't make any sense at all.
[40:11.060 --> 40:11.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Where did that come from?
[40:12.180 --> 40:13.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's just sitting here.
[40:13.980 --> 40:15.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not affixed to anything.
[40:15.460 --> 40:16.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: You brought it in.
[40:16.160 --> 40:16.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: I brought it in.
[40:16.680 --> 40:17.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: I found that in the subway.
[40:18.160 --> 40:19.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: The, uh, the U.S.
[40:19.060 --> 40:24.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Army is now stationed in the subway just a few feet away from the, uh, same position that the musicians take.
[40:24.460 --> 40:26.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: You mean the army is stationed in the, they had a table set up.
[40:26.860 --> 40:27.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: Homeland Defense or something?
[40:28.060 --> 40:29.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, no, no, no guns.
[40:29.440 --> 40:29.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh-huh.
[40:29.800 --> 40:30.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: They were just set up.
[40:31.020 --> 40:35.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: A couple of representatives, uh, talking, trying to recruit people in the subway.
[40:35.480 --> 40:35.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: In the subway?
[40:35.980 --> 40:36.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: In the subway.
[40:36.960 --> 40:38.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I, I had to get a, a souvenir.
[40:39.540 --> 40:44.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: I, I, they had them out there on the table and I thought, I asked nice, they said yes, and I said, oh, there's proof.
[40:45.540 --> 40:46.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: What station?
[40:47.320 --> 40:49.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, Times Square.
[40:49.880 --> 40:50.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Times Square, huh?
[40:50.820 --> 40:50.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[40:50.920 --> 40:52.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, they have a recruiting thing right upstairs.
[40:52.680 --> 40:57.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: They probably were just getting bored being above ground, so they went below ground, which I guess is the theme.
[40:57.880 --> 41:00.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, but, uh, if people want to check that out, that's where they are.
[41:01.660 --> 41:04.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, okay, what else do we have here?
[41:05.880 --> 41:08.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, there was the whole case of, uh, the military hacker.
[41:08.340 --> 41:08.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did you hear about this?
[41:09.460 --> 41:10.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Everyone's clamoring about this one.
[41:10.640 --> 41:16.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Federal authorities have cracked the case of an international hacker who broke into roughly 100 unclassified U.S.
[41:16.760 --> 41:18.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: military networks over the past year.
[41:19.260 --> 41:28.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Officials familiar with the investigation declined to identify the hacker who was a British citizen but said he could be indicted as early as, uh, yesterday, I guess.
[41:29.260 --> 41:33.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sorry, was, was dated yesterday, though, so I'm not sure if he actually was indicted.
[41:33.780 --> 41:39.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, the officials who spoke on condition of anonymity declined to say whether this person was already in custody.
[41:40.280 --> 41:48.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I can tell you right now he's not because we have another story uh, that comes from today's Guardian which is a publication over in England and, uh, we have his name in fact.
[41:48.380 --> 41:53.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: An unemployed British computer administrator uh, was last night facing extradition to the U.S.
[41:53.360 --> 42:02.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: accused of hacking into 92 military computer systems including one break-in that shut down the network of New Jersey naval base immediately after the September 11th attacks.
[42:02.540 --> 42:03.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: In the first case of the U.S.
[42:04.120 --> 42:18.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: seeking extradition of an alleged hacker Gary McKinnon 36 years old from Hornsey North London was indicted last night on eight counts of computer-related crime involving $900,000 of damage to military and NASA computers in 14 states.
[42:19.420 --> 42:28.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Paul McNulty the federal prosecutor dealing with the case said Mr. McKinnon using the codename Solo had carried out one of the biggest military hacks ever.
[42:29.760 --> 42:37.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Prosecutors say he had gained access to a military computer network in Washington and installed his own software allowing him to control the system from Britain.
[42:38.160 --> 42:44.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: By changing and deleting files he caused the entire network with 2,000 users in the Pentagon and other bases around Washington to crash.
[42:45.280 --> 42:47.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was out of action for three days in March.
[42:48.980 --> 42:55.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: American investigators approached British police after one of the hacking victims established that the attack had been launched from a British computer.
[42:56.080 --> 43:08.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Officials from the National High-Tech Crime Unit traced the attack to Mr. McKinnon who now faces seven counts of computer fraud each with a maximum sentence of 10 years and a $250,000 fine.
[43:10.320 --> 43:12.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Police sources describe him as a serious hacker.
[43:14.140 --> 43:22.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Not one of these sarcastic hackers he's a serious hacker who had accessed the computer systems of the most high-profile organizations you can think of in the U.S.
[43:22.480 --> 43:23.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: to make a point.
[43:24.420 --> 43:24.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Interesting.
[43:25.780 --> 43:31.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: He will not be taken into custody before the extradition process understood to be little more than a formality begins.
[43:33.640 --> 43:54.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Although the information Mr. McKinnon accessed is understood to have been unclassified the indictments in Northern Virginia and New Jersey accuse him of hacking into a network of 300 computers at the Earl Naval Weapons Station in Colts Neck and stealing 950 passwords immediately after the terror attacks on New York and Washington shutting down the system
[44:00.320 --> 44:03.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: just spring into my mind here.
[44:03.960 --> 44:13.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're saying that these systems had unclassified information but the whole 911 thing keeps being brought up as if it has some sort of an effect.
[44:13.840 --> 44:22.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: If it's an unclassified system and you destroy it, it shouldn't have any effect in a bad kind of way on the defense of the nation.
[44:22.920 --> 44:24.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not saying it's a good thing if somebody did that.
[44:25.360 --> 44:30.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now the other thing that springs to mind is the quote that this person was trying to make a point.
[44:30.320 --> 44:34.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, people making a point tend not to destroy things in order to make that point.
[44:34.740 --> 44:35.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's not rational people.
[44:36.360 --> 44:38.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: So I'd like to hear a little bit more about just what that point was.
[44:39.080 --> 44:47.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm hearing about somebody stealing 950 passwords, but I've also heard that attached to things such as looking at the password file, which contains encrypted passwords.
[44:49.520 --> 44:54.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'd like to know the facts in this story, and it appears that a lot of people are asking questions like this as well.
[44:55.380 --> 44:56.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, this is the U.S.
[44:56.580 --> 44:57.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: point of view.
[44:57.260 --> 45:00.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: This was a grave intrusion into a vital military computer system.
[45:00.880 --> 45:04.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, how is it a vital military computer system if it's unclassified?
[45:04.640 --> 45:05.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Does that make sense?
[45:06.080 --> 45:07.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Does it seem to be kind of contradicting?
[45:08.540 --> 45:10.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, unless it handled their email or something.
[45:10.980 --> 45:11.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[45:11.820 --> 45:14.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but if it handles their email, I would consider that to be classified.
[45:15.360 --> 45:17.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, that's something that is private information.
[45:18.780 --> 45:19.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[45:19.600 --> 45:22.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm not saying it's good to destroy unclassified systems.
[45:23.340 --> 45:28.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, you can't really call it a vital military computer system if it's something that's Trivial.
[45:28.280 --> 45:35.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, they're making it sound like it's something that was... like this person knew exactly what he was doing and set out to do it right after the terrorist attacks.
[45:35.740 --> 45:36.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[45:38.940 --> 45:46.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Anyway, there's a grave intrusion into a vital military computer system at a time when we as a nation had to summon all of our defenses against further attack.
[45:47.360 --> 45:49.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Again, great words, but what really happened?
[45:51.160 --> 45:53.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: The decision to prosecute in the U.S.
[45:53.420 --> 45:57.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: illustrates American frustration at the collapse of previous transatlantic hacking trials.
[45:57.600 --> 46:05.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: In England, the most embarrassing involved two young British hackers who were accused of mounting a determined information warfare campaign against the U.S.
[46:05.580 --> 46:08.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Air Force and leading defense contractors in 1994.
[46:09.500 --> 46:16.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: During that investigation, Senate hearings were initially told that the intrusions were the work of highly skilled foreign agents, first from Latvia and then from North Korea.
[46:17.120 --> 46:26.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: But the attacks were traced by British police to two amateur hackers who were 23 and 16, and they had carried out their haphazard campaign on an aging PC.
[46:31.620 --> 46:39.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: The younger was fined 1,200 pounds in 1997, but the case against the older hacker collapsed after the judge was told that he had posed no threat to security.
[46:43.380 --> 46:49.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: And last night, one of them, the elder of those two hackers, said he believed the latest case was being similarly overblown.
[46:49.560 --> 46:52.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know how the American propaganda works because I've been at the sharp end of it.
[46:52.860 --> 47:00.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: If he has extradited, he is stuffed, which is a term in England, he is stuffed because they will want to make an example of him.
[47:00.960 --> 47:02.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Sounds very familiar, doesn't it?
[47:03.280 --> 47:04.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll keep our eyes on that one.
[47:04.680 --> 47:05.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, let's take some phone calls.
[47:05.480 --> 47:08.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's 212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[47:08.580 --> 47:09.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: We have a few minutes.
[47:10.180 --> 47:11.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we're just getting going.
[47:11.320 --> 47:11.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: I know, I know.
[47:12.060 --> 47:12.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's almost over.
[47:13.080 --> 47:13.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[47:13.620 --> 47:14.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, let's see what we can do here.
[47:18.120 --> 47:19.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: And good evening.
[47:19.240 --> 47:19.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're on the air.
[47:20.840 --> 47:21.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, yeah.
[47:21.780 --> 47:22.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: What's up?
[47:22.580 --> 47:25.680]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, I don't like these guys.
[47:25.960 --> 47:26.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: What guys?
[47:27.440 --> 47:29.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't like these guys in the military.
[47:30.120 --> 47:32.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: Uh, I don't care if they're stuffed or not.
[47:33.180 --> 47:35.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, wait, the guys in the military aren't the ones who are stuffed.
[47:35.460 --> 47:37.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the guys in England.
[47:37.040 --> 47:38.440]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, they're all, they're all going to get stuffed.
[47:38.560 --> 47:39.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's the 16-year-old.
[47:40.120 --> 47:41.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, we don't know.
[47:41.060 --> 47:41.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, he's 36.
[47:42.100 --> 47:42.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, no.
[47:42.320 --> 47:45.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, 20 years ago, he might have been stuffed at that point.
[47:45.660 --> 47:46.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, no, no.
[47:46.400 --> 47:54.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: The saying is that he, he will conditionally be stuffed in the English terminology if the Americans get their way.
[47:54.160 --> 47:55.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Nobody's being stuffed right now.
[47:55.980 --> 47:57.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or nobody is stuffed right now.
[47:57.280 --> 47:57.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the proper use of them.
[47:57.900 --> 47:58.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, he was indicted.
[47:58.860 --> 47:59.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: He was indicted.
[47:59.900 --> 48:00.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: He was indicted last night.
[48:01.240 --> 48:02.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did they prepare him before the stuffing?
[48:03.020 --> 48:03.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, what...
[48:03.520 --> 48:03.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, no.
[48:04.900 --> 48:07.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Let's, let's, let's, let's, let's look at this over one more time.
[48:08.120 --> 48:09.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, he isn't even in custody.
[48:09.880 --> 48:10.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: He's in England.
[48:10.800 --> 48:18.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, and, uh, he's, the only time he could possibly be quote-unquote stuffed is if he gets extradited to this country, this country being the United States.
[48:19.040 --> 48:19.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh.
[48:19.620 --> 48:20.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: You understand that?
[48:20.260 --> 48:20.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good.
[48:20.900 --> 48:21.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh.
[48:21.460 --> 48:22.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think he thought it was a thanks thing.
[48:22.600 --> 48:24.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: I would say they're all stuffed, Ben.
[48:24.380 --> 48:25.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Is anything else on your mind, sir?
[48:25.900 --> 48:27.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because I think we've exhausted this subject.
[48:27.540 --> 48:27.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: No.
[48:28.060 --> 48:28.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, thank you.
[48:28.760 --> 48:30.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks so much for, for the call.
[48:30.400 --> 48:30.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[48:30.800 --> 48:31.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, then.
[48:31.420 --> 48:31.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Have a good night.
[48:33.120 --> 48:34.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: What do you say after a call like that?
[48:34.880 --> 48:35.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[48:35.180 --> 48:37.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: 212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
[48:37.600 --> 48:38.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: And good evening.
[48:38.240 --> 48:38.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're on the air.
[48:38.880 --> 48:39.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hey, what's up?
[48:39.500 --> 48:39.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: How you doing?
[48:40.200 --> 48:47.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, like the last week, every 10 seconds when I listen to WBAI, there's an interruption that sounds like a pulse.
[48:47.540 --> 48:47.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Really?
[48:47.960 --> 48:48.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: When you dial a telephone.
[48:49.740 --> 48:51.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wait, you're saying over our FM signal?
[48:51.660 --> 48:54.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it just stopped like 20 minutes ago.
[48:55.040 --> 48:55.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Really?
[48:55.580 --> 48:56.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's been doing it for like the last week.
[48:57.540 --> 48:59.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I've been listening to this station and I haven't heard it.
[49:00.420 --> 49:02.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: What kind of receiver do you have?
[49:02.600 --> 49:04.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just have a, you know, regular Sony radio.
[49:05.100 --> 49:05.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[49:05.580 --> 49:07.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: And how far are you from the station?
[49:07.740 --> 49:09.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm in Bayshore, Long Island.
[49:11.080 --> 49:14.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: The only thing I can think of is something's interfering with our frequency out there.
[49:14.020 --> 49:24.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, what you might try doing if that starts up again is going one frequency up to 99.7, then one down to 99.3, see if anything is on those frequencies that might be making that sound.
[49:24.180 --> 49:24.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: It was just really odd.
[49:25.020 --> 49:26.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: It was exactly every 10 seconds.
[49:26.760 --> 49:26.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[49:27.540 --> 49:28.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: That is strange.
[49:28.340 --> 49:30.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Which, um, did you move around a lot?
[49:30.560 --> 49:32.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: Or, is this a home stereo or, uh...
[49:32.800 --> 49:34.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it's just like, um, you know, a little portable.
[49:34.920 --> 49:37.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, so it could be something in your local area.
[49:37.640 --> 49:41.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I'm on the island too and I was listening to the station quite a bit and I didn't hear anything like that.
[49:41.400 --> 49:43.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: And if anybody else has, please call in and let us know.
[49:43.560 --> 49:45.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, uh, it's the first I'm hearing about it.
[49:45.480 --> 49:45.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[49:46.240 --> 49:48.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, I'd also like to recommend the book.
[49:48.160 --> 49:49.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's called Get Your War On.
[49:49.700 --> 49:50.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[49:50.260 --> 49:51.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Soft Skull Press.
[49:51.520 --> 49:53.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a book with, uh, comic strips.
[49:53.300 --> 49:55.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's pretty sarcastic and hilarious.
[49:55.600 --> 49:58.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think it infringes on, uh, Voltron's copyrights also.
[49:58.620 --> 49:58.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[49:59.120 --> 50:00.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: How can, uh, how can people get this?
[50:00.880 --> 50:02.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, I, I got it from a regular bookstore.
[50:03.300 --> 50:03.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[50:03.680 --> 50:04.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's out there.
[50:04.420 --> 50:05.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Get Your War On?
[50:05.620 --> 50:05.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[50:06.240 --> 50:06.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, great.
[50:06.660 --> 50:07.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Check it out.
[50:07.380 --> 50:07.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: I will.
[50:08.040 --> 50:08.260]  All right.
[50:08.520 --> 50:09.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for calling.
[50:09.560 --> 50:11.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: And good luck with the signal all the way out there.
[50:11.420 --> 50:11.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Be sure.
[50:12.320 --> 50:12.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[50:13.000 --> 50:13.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're on the air.
[50:13.960 --> 50:14.900]  Yes, good evening, man.
[50:15.000 --> 50:15.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: How are you doing?
[50:15.640 --> 50:16.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can you speak up a little bit?
[50:16.560 --> 50:17.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, yes, of course.
[50:17.560 --> 50:26.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, what's really, uh, I think kind of frightening is if he gets exercise before Thanksgiving, he's going to be stuffed for sure.
[50:26.540 --> 50:26.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[50:28.120 --> 50:34.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, when I read the word, I thought I was being clever because I was reading a British, uh, you know, slang term, and now it seems it's backfired horribly.
[50:35.280 --> 50:36.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, it's this time of year.
[50:36.680 --> 50:37.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it certainly is.
[50:37.820 --> 50:38.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: It'll be over soon.
[50:39.540 --> 50:40.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks, uh, thanks for your call.
[50:41.580 --> 50:42.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, boy.
[50:43.080 --> 50:44.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're going to get a call from England, too.
[50:44.340 --> 50:46.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: People will be angry over there, too, for some reason.
[50:46.500 --> 50:46.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[50:46.880 --> 50:47.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're on the air.
[50:48.220 --> 50:50.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: That was the call from England when we hung up.
[50:50.380 --> 50:50.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[50:50.760 --> 50:51.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're on the air.
[50:52.500 --> 50:53.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Speak up, please.
[50:53.620 --> 50:53.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[50:54.020 --> 50:54.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi.
[50:54.440 --> 50:56.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm calling from the New Jersey Turnpike on a car phone.
[50:58.000 --> 50:58.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: I see.
[50:58.500 --> 51:01.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'd like, I'd like to talk about eight toll-free numbers.
[51:02.240 --> 51:02.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ah.
[51:02.960 --> 51:05.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: You might have mentioned this before on one of your shows.
[51:05.180 --> 51:06.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't forget which one.
[51:06.460 --> 51:08.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: Rebel, you sound particularly strange tonight.
[51:08.240 --> 51:09.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: What's going on over there?
[51:10.000 --> 51:10.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: What do you mean?
[51:10.780 --> 51:12.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, there's something about your voice that sounds different.
[51:12.880 --> 51:13.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: It sounds like, I don't know.
[51:13.700 --> 51:17.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm, because I have to talk loud, because I have, because I'm, like, driving, maybe.
[51:17.160 --> 51:18.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's why I have to, like, talk like this, because I'm...
[51:18.820 --> 51:21.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, you know, if you were in New York, you wouldn't be allowed to do this.
[51:21.360 --> 51:23.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can't drive and talk on the phone at the same time.
[51:23.160 --> 51:24.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: Not unless you have a hands-free shot.
[51:24.500 --> 51:24.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: And do you?
[51:25.440 --> 51:25.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[51:26.660 --> 51:27.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right, then.
[51:27.840 --> 51:38.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, now, when you call a toll-free number, like, you know those 800, let's say, PNC Bank, for a bank, let's say.
[51:38.380 --> 51:43.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you call the 800 number for 800 PNC Bank or whatever, it gives you this recording.
[51:44.040 --> 51:44.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: You might have heard this.
[51:44.820 --> 51:46.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have it on me, but I have it.
[51:47.320 --> 51:48.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
[51:48.300 --> 51:49.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't have it on my home phone.
[51:49.560 --> 51:50.760]  [SPEAKER_01]: Never mind, but I'll demonstrate it.
[51:50.760 --> 51:55.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's, call the talk line at 800-400-TALK for exciting people nationwide.
[51:56.220 --> 51:57.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: Call 800-400-TALK.
[51:58.500 --> 52:05.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: That, every 800 number, I mean, not every, but most of the 800 numbers have that recording.
[52:05.760 --> 52:15.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: In other words, you know how when they advertise and they say call 877-health-insurance or whatever, but if you call the 800 number health insurance, it gives you that recording.
[52:15.980 --> 52:19.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: And call 400-TALK, 1-800-400-TALK.
[52:19.680 --> 52:22.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: They just tell you to call a different number.
[52:22.200 --> 52:24.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're wasting 800 numbers.
[52:24.380 --> 52:32.140]  [SPEAKER_01]: They should set aside 800 numbers for 800 for toll-free business, 866 for the sex lines, so that you can distinguish.
[52:33.420 --> 52:42.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's a good suggestion, Rebel, and I'm sure the people involved in making those decisions will listen to it and make a decision based on what it's worth.
[52:42.060 --> 52:42.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for calling.
[52:42.960 --> 52:43.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Drive safely.
[52:45.180 --> 52:45.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good evening.
[52:46.120 --> 52:46.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're on the air.
[52:47.660 --> 52:47.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hello.
[52:48.040 --> 52:48.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: How are you doing?
[52:48.620 --> 52:49.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, yourself?
[52:49.680 --> 52:50.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay, pretty good.
[52:50.820 --> 52:51.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good.
[52:51.480 --> 53:08.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: On the subject of government running amok, Bush's proposal for the Department of Homeland Security is going to be exempt from procurement laws, from Freedom of Information Act, from labor negotiation, etc.
[53:08.980 --> 53:15.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, basically, any regulation that is on present government agencies is going to be eliminated.
[53:16.180 --> 53:24.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: And therefore, the real proposal, you know, the real goal of the Homeland Security Department is to just remove government oversight and accountability.
[53:25.220 --> 53:26.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's scary.
[53:26.160 --> 53:26.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's very scary.
[53:26.900 --> 53:31.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that's something that a few of us have seen coming for quite some time, and now it's here.
[53:31.940 --> 53:34.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's, you know, how do you get around something like that?
[53:34.780 --> 53:36.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: No oversight whatsoever.
[53:36.440 --> 53:41.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Basically, they can just do what they want because they say, you know, it's a threat and they have to do it and don't ask any questions.
[53:41.620 --> 53:42.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Don't let them do it.
[53:42.840 --> 53:43.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[53:44.440 --> 53:47.240]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's great to say, but how do we implement that?
[53:47.320 --> 53:50.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: How do we keep them from, you know, from doing this to us?
[53:50.180 --> 53:58.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I put on my signature file now, you know, a phrase about this, you know, saying that the Department of Homeland Security, you know, just what I said on the radio now.
[53:59.060 --> 54:06.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, I posted different news groups and, you know, just telling people what's going on so people know.
[54:06.560 --> 54:08.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because I don't think most people don't know that.
[54:09.460 --> 54:10.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah.
[54:10.360 --> 54:15.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I think, you know, if people start to realize what the proposal is, then there's a better chance of being rejected.
[54:15.620 --> 54:16.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[54:16.540 --> 54:20.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: I have to admit, after this last election, I'm pretty pessimistic about anything logical happening.
[54:21.000 --> 54:21.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, yeah, well.
[54:22.180 --> 54:23.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, you know, think about it.
[54:23.520 --> 54:25.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Think what's going to happen after January of next year.
[54:25.720 --> 54:27.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's not going to be any more debate on anything.
[54:28.100 --> 54:30.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Basically, whatever Bush wants, Bush is going to get.
[54:31.060 --> 54:31.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: No debates.
[54:32.220 --> 54:36.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, maybe a little bit of a debate, but the vote is going to wind up, you know, always in his favor.
[54:36.460 --> 54:41.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, the sad thing is, even with the democratically controlled Senate, he was still getting what he wants.
[54:41.740 --> 54:47.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but, you know, at least you have people like Patrick Leahy and, you know, people like that in charge of some subcommittees.
[54:47.860 --> 54:48.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's all going to go away.
[54:48.840 --> 54:49.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: I understand.
[54:49.520 --> 54:59.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: But also, you know, do note that it's still a very close situation, you know, with the Republicans only controlling by one or two seats or something like that.
[54:59.800 --> 54:59.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[55:00.020 --> 55:01.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, you know, there is...
[55:01.680 --> 55:09.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: If a few people switch over from one side to the other, then if it's a pure party-blind vote, you know, but most things aren't necessarily...
[55:10.220 --> 55:12.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: The Republicans do that a lot less than Democrats.
[55:12.540 --> 55:12.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, yeah, yeah.
[55:13.020 --> 55:14.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's unfortunate, but it's true.
[55:14.440 --> 55:18.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Nonetheless, you know, things do change, you know?
[55:18.800 --> 55:23.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, if you just throw up your hands and say, oh, screw it, and it doesn't get any change.
[55:23.880 --> 55:25.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, I'm not saying go screw it.
[55:25.740 --> 55:27.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm saying I'm throwing up my hands, though, but I'm still going to fight.
[55:28.100 --> 55:29.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm just going to fight with my hands up.
[55:30.080 --> 55:33.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't quite know what that means, but we'll just have to see.
[55:33.520 --> 55:34.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for the call.
[55:34.500 --> 55:35.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks for the warning.
[55:35.680 --> 55:42.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: And speaking of warnings, after hearing your discussion of surveillance, this is from a letter of library computers.
[55:42.000 --> 55:58.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: I thought you might be interested that the New York Public Library is also instituting a new system and its research branch called Access, which requires picture identification of library patrons to comply with city, state, and federal requirements, though they protest that this will not be used for surveillance,
[55:58.540 --> 56:00.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: even though it's a damn good tool to use for surveillance.
[56:01.160 --> 56:08.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: This information was in a recent mailing sent out to people who contribute to the library, and thanks very much for sharing that with us.
[56:08.920 --> 56:16.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it looks like we're just getting rolling, which means our time is just about up, so we're going to be back again for an unprecedented third week in a row next week.
[56:17.200 --> 56:20.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: And hopefully we'll have more information on all these topics as well.
[56:21.200 --> 56:24.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Until then, it's Emmanuel Goldstein for everybody else at Off the Hook.
[56:24.460 --> 56:33.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, and again, we're going to be appearing at CBGB's immediately after the show, as long as it takes us to get there, at the Illegal Art, Freedom of Expression, and the Corporate Age.
[56:33.640 --> 56:38.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's taking place right now at CBGB's 313 Gallery, 313 Bowery.
[56:39.080 --> 56:44.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it'll be taking place until, I think, midnight, so you guys at the computer show can come, too, after your show.
[56:45.440 --> 56:50.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it'll be taking place until December 6th, so feel free to stop by at any time.
[56:50.720 --> 56:51.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll see you next week.
[56:51.800 --> 56:52.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: Good night.
[56:57.620 --> 57:00.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: This silence is brought to you by machines that don't work.
[57:02.020 --> 57:02.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: Here we go.
[57:02.600 --> 57:24.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, God save us from defeat Oh, God save us, time to war Oh, God save us on the street Let
[57:34.330 --> 57:37.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: us fight for freedom
[57:54.910 --> 58:12.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: FBI is back again with COINTELPRO In the post-9-11 climate of the Patriot Act, and as the lame duck of Congress is about to vote on the Homeland Security Bill, make sure to tune in to Radio Unnameable with Bob Fass this Thursday at midnight into Friday.