Off The Hook - 2002-11-20

[00:06.690 --> 00:10.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you're listening to radio station WBAI in New York, where it's 7.02.
[00:11.650 --> 00:14.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: And time, once again, for Off the Hook.
[01:42.240 --> 01:44.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I just want to go on the record as saying that was not my fault.
[01:44.640 --> 01:46.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hate all the right buttons, they just didn't work.
[01:47.800 --> 01:48.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: And Ken, you're a witness, right?
[01:49.220 --> 01:49.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm a witness.
[01:49.820 --> 01:50.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: You'll back me up at the hearing.
[01:51.500 --> 01:51.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good.
[01:51.960 --> 01:56.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, well, the next problem now is my next CD is being held captive by the machine.
[01:56.560 --> 01:57.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Look at this.
[01:57.160 --> 01:57.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm hitting eject.
[01:58.360 --> 01:59.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: It won't come out.
[01:59.720 --> 02:00.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: It won't play.
[02:00.420 --> 02:01.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's one of my favorite CDs.
[02:01.940 --> 02:05.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the Dread Zone CD that I've been playing the last few weeks.
[02:05.560 --> 02:07.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: And a lot of people have been asking about that.
[02:07.300 --> 02:09.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: And now you know, and you may never hear it again because it's stuck in it.
[02:09.600 --> 02:11.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Does anybody know how to open this damn thing?
[02:13.600 --> 02:15.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hated when things don't work.
[02:15.540 --> 02:17.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: And today, nothing has worked right.
[02:17.180 --> 02:22.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's one of those days where, you know, everyone just feels compelled to get in your way and prevent you from doing the things you need to do.
[02:22.160 --> 02:27.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: I've always made a point of telling my readers in the eight books that I have.
[02:27.260 --> 02:27.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Who are you?
[02:27.660 --> 02:27.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Where are you?
[02:27.860 --> 02:28.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[02:28.500 --> 02:29.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: That was from the other studio.
[02:30.420 --> 02:34.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: The other studio, which somehow remained linked, even though we unlinked it.
[02:35.840 --> 02:36.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's great.
[02:36.500 --> 02:37.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Can you get my CD out of there?
[02:39.060 --> 02:40.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's stuck pretty good, isn't it?
[02:40.780 --> 02:41.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sort of ruins the whole effect.
[02:43.140 --> 02:45.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Ah, everything was so together.
[02:45.480 --> 02:46.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mike, you're back.
[02:46.460 --> 02:49.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: I have these handy-dandy paper clips lying around the studio.
[02:49.440 --> 02:55.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because this happens so often that you need paper clips to extract your music from these god-awful machines.
[02:55.480 --> 02:56.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Here's a paper clip.
[02:56.560 --> 02:57.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, take that.
[02:57.520 --> 02:58.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't electrocute yourself, though.
[02:59.100 --> 02:59.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[02:59.660 --> 03:01.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: It doesn't translate well over the radio.
[03:02.700 --> 03:04.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, then, Mike, how are you?
[03:04.260 --> 03:05.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: You weren't here last week.
[03:05.220 --> 03:05.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was not here.
[03:05.980 --> 03:09.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, Jim, you weren't here either, and I see your shining face across the hall there.
[03:10.080 --> 03:11.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's a long story.
[03:11.400 --> 03:11.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[03:12.040 --> 03:14.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, try not to manhandle the microphone too much so you can actually hear what you say.
[03:15.120 --> 03:15.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh.
[03:15.600 --> 03:16.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's a long story.
[03:16.840 --> 03:20.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Tell us the CNN headline news part of the long story.
[03:20.360 --> 03:21.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: That way we can get...
[03:21.360 --> 03:26.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, I was a guest of the State Department of Corrections for a few days.
[03:26.240 --> 03:27.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can't get that CD in this country, you know.
[03:27.980 --> 03:31.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just want to point that out to the people who are trying to extract it out.
[03:31.120 --> 03:31.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're not going to get it again.
[03:31.640 --> 03:33.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: What, the State Department of Corrections CD?
[03:33.920 --> 03:34.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[03:34.280 --> 03:34.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[03:35.100 --> 03:35.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[03:35.500 --> 03:40.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Seriously, Don, you were basically charged by the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.
[03:40.380 --> 03:43.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I was charged by the State of New York, but that's previous.
[03:43.700 --> 03:44.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: But they started it.
[03:44.960 --> 03:47.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: But the MTA started the whole thing with the State of New York, right?
[03:48.160 --> 03:58.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah, they, with the City of New York, the Police Department, they gave them some what I'll nebulously call evidence, or rather, what I'll call nebulous evidence.
[04:00.320 --> 04:05.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, yeah, the process started quite a few months ago, got arrested, finally got indicted about a month ago.
[04:06.580 --> 04:08.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: I suspect you're some hanky-panky with MetroCords.
[04:09.180 --> 04:09.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[04:09.340 --> 04:10.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you so much, man.
[04:10.020 --> 04:10.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's what boils down to.
[04:10.900 --> 04:11.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Should I try it again?
[04:12.840 --> 04:13.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Gently, gently.
[04:13.680 --> 04:15.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Gently, nice and gently.
[04:15.160 --> 04:16.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: You've got to touch everything so gently around here.
[04:17.320 --> 04:19.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: The machines are as sensitive as the people.
[04:20.160 --> 04:20.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[04:20.820 --> 04:21.580]  What do you mean by that?
[04:22.960 --> 04:27.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the next sound you hear should be the nice ambient sounds of Dread Zone.
[04:28.240 --> 04:28.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[04:29.520 --> 04:30.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: But they're not.
[04:31.560 --> 04:32.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, there they are.
[04:32.260 --> 04:32.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[04:33.120 --> 04:34.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, that's not them either.
[04:34.360 --> 04:35.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, because I don't have the right thing turned up.
[04:35.780 --> 04:36.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: That was my fault.
[04:36.560 --> 04:36.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[04:37.260 --> 04:37.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry, Jim.
[04:38.120 --> 04:39.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: So continue with...
[04:39.140 --> 04:39.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's okay.
[04:39.980 --> 04:41.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: ...legal tribulations here.
[04:41.100 --> 04:50.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so, uh, yeah, they indicted me last month, had a couple of court appearances, missed one because I misread the, uh, the piece of paper that they gave me.
[04:50.780 --> 04:51.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, really?
[04:51.320 --> 04:53.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's my fault.
[04:53.600 --> 04:56.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, and yeah, overall, it's my responsibility.
[04:56.800 --> 05:04.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, um, so, uh, I'm a day late, and I go into court, and I start asking around, what do I do?
[05:04.980 --> 05:10.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: I would much rather not be arrested, you know, remanded until the next hearing.
[05:10.240 --> 05:11.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, it's a bad idea.
[05:12.560 --> 05:16.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: So they said, well, contact your lawyer, let him handle it.
[05:16.260 --> 05:17.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are you sure, I say?
[05:18.720 --> 05:24.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, this teaches me never ask for advice until I've exhausted every possibility.
[05:24.440 --> 05:28.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: And don't trust men in uniform on the ground floor, they probably know nothing.
[05:28.700 --> 05:32.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, I don't think they gave me malicious advice, but they gave me wrong advice.
[05:34.580 --> 05:38.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh, I, I spent a, a lovely two nights, uh, in the tombs.
[05:39.660 --> 05:40.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: They put you in jail?
[05:41.060 --> 05:41.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[05:41.960 --> 05:42.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, my goodness.
[05:42.720 --> 05:43.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Knocked on my door.
[05:43.640 --> 05:50.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: This, this reminds me of the fiber story, where we asked them, is it okay if we drop, if we drop him off, because of the ice storm, if we drop him off, you know, later.
[05:50.900 --> 05:52.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, and they said, sure, no problem.
[05:52.600 --> 05:56.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: We bring him to the prison, and they just throw him in the hole for two days, without telling him anything.
[05:57.020 --> 05:58.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, what, you got thrown in the tombs.
[05:58.500 --> 05:59.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, they didn't tell me too much, either.
[06:00.680 --> 06:00.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh.
[06:03.620 --> 06:04.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, they didn't tell me too much.
[06:04.960 --> 06:05.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not very comfortable.
[06:06.700 --> 06:08.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I, I, I was aware of that.
[06:08.420 --> 06:14.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: I, I, I have, I have a great increased, uh, appreciation for the, for fiber and, and Bernie S.
[06:14.400 --> 06:14.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Mm-hmm.
[06:15.220 --> 06:17.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: After just, uh, just two, uh, little nights.
[06:17.800 --> 06:18.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: And what, not Kevin?
[06:19.140 --> 06:19.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah, Kevin.
[06:20.040 --> 06:20.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sorry.
[06:20.660 --> 06:22.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: He's gonna be displeased to hear that.
[06:22.340 --> 06:24.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, but I only met Kevin, you know, a month ago.
[06:24.880 --> 06:26.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, um, okay, so.
[06:26.080 --> 06:27.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, fiber I met years ago.
[06:27.460 --> 06:28.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bernie's a good friend of mine.
[06:28.640 --> 06:29.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, come on.
[06:29.400 --> 06:31.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, were you in, in, in, in jail last week, while we were on the air?
[06:32.000 --> 06:32.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[06:32.140 --> 06:33.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or wondering what happened to you.
[06:33.480 --> 06:34.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, uh, yeah, couldn't make a phone call.
[06:34.980 --> 06:41.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was, I really wanted, I really wanted to make a phone call, uh, collect to the station.
[06:41.980 --> 06:46.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, uh, I, I had a calling card I memorized, and I had a touch-tone phone.
[06:46.320 --> 06:48.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think you can use calling cards from, from, from...
[06:48.320 --> 06:51.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, well, it, it depends on what sort of phone you are.
[06:51.300 --> 06:55.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, in the original holding cell, yes, it's a regular, uh, pay phone.
[06:55.760 --> 06:55.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[06:56.000 --> 06:59.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you can call, collect, you can use coins if you have them, and you can, uh.
[07:00.260 --> 07:01.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, the tombs are down when?
[07:01.660 --> 07:02.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Chinatown.
[07:02.140 --> 07:04.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, they're, they're right next to the criminal court building.
[07:04.800 --> 07:07.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're, they're, the address is actually 125 White Street.
[07:07.820 --> 07:08.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[07:08.660 --> 07:20.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh, it's connected via a bridge, uh, nicknamed the Bridge of Size, after the, uh, the famous thing in Venice in the, uh, medieval times connecting the prison to the Doge's Palace.
[07:20.780 --> 07:28.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: The Doge was the head of Venice, and all his political enemies would go before him, and then he'd just send him over this bridge to the prison.
[07:28.180 --> 07:31.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: You must have spent hours discussing the history and, uh, the, the, the, the inspirations.
[07:31.960 --> 07:33.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, no, I, I stayed to myself.
[07:33.640 --> 07:35.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: I figured that was, uh, much safer.
[07:35.900 --> 07:36.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah.
[07:36.960 --> 07:37.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's horrible.
[07:37.820 --> 07:40.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, so, two nights that they kept you there.
[07:40.460 --> 07:44.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, any, anything happen that, uh, worthy of note other than being bored to death?
[07:45.140 --> 07:46.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, a lot of bored to death.
[07:47.880 --> 07:54.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, things, things that a hacker mind would see inside the tombs that perhaps we might appreciate.
[07:54.780 --> 07:57.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I, I, I was, I was trying to think of that.
[07:57.580 --> 07:58.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's, uh, there's not much.
[07:59.100 --> 08:13.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, uh, I, uh, I, I, I believe that, uh, I have a greater appreciation for anybody who's been in prison or jail or worked their way out of prison or jail, because I was looking around just for the hacker mind, not intending to escape.
[08:13.860 --> 08:18.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: I figured I had enough trouble just missing a court appearance, imagine the trouble I'd be in if I escaped.
[08:19.220 --> 08:24.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, just looking to see how feasible that was, and that was pretty damn unlikely.
[08:25.220 --> 08:31.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, all these guys who take a spoon and chisel through over six months or two years or whatever, amazing.
[08:33.260 --> 08:35.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: And this is just for missing a court date?
[08:35.360 --> 08:36.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, well, I guess what it's...
[08:36.680 --> 08:38.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or for showing up and saying that you missed the court date?
[08:38.640 --> 08:43.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, no, no, no, it was, uh, not getting back to them in the time that they won.
[08:43.860 --> 08:45.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: I spent it, obviously, on my lawyer's part.
[08:45.760 --> 08:46.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[08:46.600 --> 08:50.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, and like I said, it gets worse, of course.
[08:50.960 --> 08:51.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[08:51.360 --> 08:52.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you want to talk about the worst part?
[08:52.280 --> 08:53.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, sure, let's talk about...
[08:53.260 --> 08:53.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Only have an hour.
[08:54.340 --> 08:55.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, okay.
[08:55.180 --> 08:56.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I'll make it really quick.
[08:56.440 --> 08:56.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[08:56.660 --> 09:04.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: My lawyer, who is not happy with the fact that I, I haven't paid him aside from the initial, uh, amount, is now taking himself off the case.
[09:04.480 --> 09:12.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm one step above a public defender, something called an 18B, which is a, a real attorney that donates or is forced to donate.
[09:12.740 --> 09:13.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure how it works.
[09:13.700 --> 09:17.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Some time to, uh, technically I'm an indigent defendant.
[09:18.520 --> 09:18.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[09:18.860 --> 09:22.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh, so I've, uh, I've gone down in the quality of, uh, of my counsel.
[09:24.720 --> 09:26.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I have, uh...
[09:26.160 --> 09:29.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you can't have been too high in that regard anyway, being, winding up in jail.
[09:29.780 --> 09:30.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, they, they...
[09:30.440 --> 09:31.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a good point.
[09:31.420 --> 09:31.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[09:32.340 --> 09:33.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Can't get much worse than that.
[09:34.060 --> 09:34.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, that is...
[09:34.140 --> 09:35.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're supposed to keep you out of jail.
[09:35.260 --> 09:44.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah, but on the other hand, like I said, it's my responsibility if I had just read the damn piece of paper right, I would have made the appearance the day before.
[09:45.060 --> 09:49.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, but, but you see, when you have a lawyer, they're supposed to also call you and tell you, remind you of things.
[09:49.240 --> 10:03.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: I, I, I appeared in a deposition last week for the whole DECSS case, yet again, in front of the DVD Copy Control Association, and I was reminded constantly by my lawyer that, uh, you have to be here at this time, you know, take this bus to get there, et cetera.
[10:03.760 --> 10:04.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: We have one key difference.
[10:05.380 --> 10:06.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're able to pay your lawyer.
[10:08.200 --> 10:13.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, actually, that's not entirely true, but, uh, we'll, we'll get into that, uh, it's...
[10:13.300 --> 10:13.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Some other time.
[10:19.240 --> 10:21.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Excuse me, I'm just another peon in the system.
[10:21.220 --> 10:22.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: That should not enter into it.
[10:22.640 --> 10:23.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Payments should never be...
[10:23.280 --> 10:23.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: I agree with that.
[10:23.840 --> 10:25.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just like with medical care.
[10:25.140 --> 10:26.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Payments should not, I mean...
[10:26.400 --> 10:29.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: A lot of things should be, but you and I know that they're different.
[10:29.820 --> 10:30.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Mm-hmm.
[10:30.400 --> 10:30.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[10:30.540 --> 10:34.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: But this is, this is what I mean when I say that certain things should not be treated as commodities.
[10:35.040 --> 10:51.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, you should be, you should have the right to legal, uh, competent legal, uh, representation, and to competent medical care, and, uh, you know, all that, but I'm just going to get off on this, uh, you know, my, my, my vision of the world, which you probably disagree with.
[10:51.520 --> 10:51.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Somewhat.
[10:51.540 --> 10:53.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Which is rather ironic in the situation.
[10:54.180 --> 10:55.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, well, yeah, it is, isn't it?
[10:56.240 --> 10:56.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[10:56.880 --> 10:57.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Jeff.
[10:57.740 --> 10:58.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[10:58.040 --> 10:58.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: How are you doing?
[10:58.720 --> 10:59.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm good, you?
[10:59.360 --> 10:59.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good to see you over there.
[10:59.920 --> 11:00.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, I'm fine.
[11:00.780 --> 11:00.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm fine.
[11:01.080 --> 11:02.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, much better than Jim, obviously.
[11:02.840 --> 11:03.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but it's good to see you.
[11:03.960 --> 11:04.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[11:04.580 --> 11:05.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[11:05.200 --> 11:09.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, it's good to see all of you here on this, uh, nice, uh, Tuesday, or, I'm sorry, Wednesday evening.
[11:09.500 --> 11:10.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Even I can't get it right.
[11:10.980 --> 11:13.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, so Jim, the next thing for you is what?
[11:13.740 --> 11:14.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is there another hearing?
[11:14.640 --> 11:15.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is there...
[11:15.120 --> 11:17.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, uh, yeah, uh, not, not to mention my bail being revoked.
[11:18.120 --> 11:18.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[11:18.820 --> 11:21.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh, I, I need to raise, uh, cash quick.
[11:21.560 --> 11:24.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, if your bail was revoked, then how do you raise, I don't understand.
[11:25.260 --> 11:26.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is there, did they raise it?
[11:26.880 --> 11:29.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it was on my own recognizance.
[11:29.360 --> 11:31.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so now you're worth something more than that.
[11:31.760 --> 11:33.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I was always worth more than that.
[11:34.520 --> 11:36.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, even, even my enemies agree.
[11:37.060 --> 11:37.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[11:37.220 --> 11:37.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: What are they asking for?
[11:38.160 --> 11:40.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, I, I, I got to raise two and a half.
[11:40.740 --> 11:40.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Geez.
[11:41.700 --> 11:42.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: $2,500.
[11:42.780 --> 11:43.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[11:44.400 --> 11:48.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, well, uh, outside in the street after the show, we'll be doing a little fundraiser for Jim.
[11:49.240 --> 11:49.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Join us.
[11:51.020 --> 11:52.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Dresses 120 Wall Street.
[11:52.600 --> 11:53.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've got my harmonica.
[11:53.900 --> 11:54.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, then.
[11:55.880 --> 11:57.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Ah, well, there's so much we have to go through.
[11:57.660 --> 11:59.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, I, I definitely want to pay attention to this as well.
[12:00.020 --> 12:04.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, uh, we have so many other stories to, uh, uh, to delve into.
[12:04.940 --> 12:07.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, well, Mike, you've been away.
[12:07.240 --> 12:09.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Anything, uh, you want to report on that has happened in Europe?
[12:09.840 --> 12:11.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have a website for the, for the audience.
[12:12.220 --> 12:13.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: You have a website for the audience?
[12:13.540 --> 12:13.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[12:13.760 --> 12:14.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure I understand.
[12:14.940 --> 12:16.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: They have to visit this website.
[12:16.360 --> 12:16.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[12:16.940 --> 12:17.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: It is called...
[12:17.720 --> 12:18.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: What's the address?
[12:20.180 --> 12:25.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: ColumbiaReallyDivest.org ColumbiaReallyDivest.org As opposed to ColumbiaDivest.org That's a separate website.
[12:25.440 --> 12:25.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[12:25.860 --> 12:27.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: That, uh, that, that I'm not involved with.
[12:27.640 --> 12:29.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: So this is like the, the tradition that Verizon really sucks.
[12:30.400 --> 12:30.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[12:30.880 --> 12:31.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[12:31.520 --> 12:32.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Really divest.
[12:32.860 --> 12:36.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: ColumbiaDivest, out of curiosity, ColumbiaDivest.org, was that taken by Columbia University?
[12:36.640 --> 12:37.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no.
[12:37.060 --> 12:37.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[12:37.440 --> 12:37.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[12:37.540 --> 12:39.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's not quite the same as Verizon sucks.
[12:39.600 --> 12:39.720]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[12:39.840 --> 12:44.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's also ColumbiaDivest, but, but, they're, they're totally separate.
[12:44.100 --> 12:48.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Who, who, who, who would start a website saying ColumbiaDivest, who goes to the trouble of doing that?
[12:48.280 --> 12:51.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a very, it's actually the most popular of the three.
[12:51.400 --> 12:51.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Really?
[12:51.460 --> 12:53.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, but listeners shouldn't even bother.
[12:53.340 --> 12:53.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Alright.
[12:53.680 --> 12:54.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Columbia really divest.
[12:55.000 --> 12:55.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Really divest.
[12:55.860 --> 12:57.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: And Columbia spelled with a U not like the country.
[12:58.040 --> 12:58.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[12:58.580 --> 12:58.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[12:59.240 --> 13:00.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, what's, what's on this site?
[13:00.980 --> 13:02.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, they'll have to find out for themselves.
[13:02.540 --> 13:12.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, there are people out there who are sitting, you know, eating a can of soup over the sink right now, that barely have electricity in their homes, that don't have access to the internet, and they'd like to know what's on this thing.
[13:13.040 --> 13:13.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think in fairness...
[13:13.840 --> 13:16.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if you go to their public library and, and look...
[13:16.220 --> 13:16.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: The public library.
[13:16.980 --> 13:18.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're in Burkino Faso.
[13:18.580 --> 13:23.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: The public library where, where you'll be monitored by, you know, the federal government and all kinds of other agencies.
[13:25.180 --> 13:26.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, sir, if I think you're the expert on that, right?
[13:28.220 --> 13:28.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, unfortunately.
[13:29.200 --> 13:30.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: You get monitored on the way over here?
[13:30.880 --> 13:31.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, yeah.
[13:31.620 --> 13:33.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think that there was somebody following me.
[13:33.000 --> 13:37.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: What's with this, uh, this, this whole, uh, DARPA, um, uh, thing?
[13:37.980 --> 13:38.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: What was it?
[13:38.700 --> 13:40.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: The, uh, the Information Awareness Office?
[13:40.560 --> 13:42.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: The Information Officer Information Awareness?
[13:42.480 --> 13:42.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: What's, what's...
[13:42.980 --> 13:44.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: People have been writing in about this.
[13:44.280 --> 13:45.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Total Information Awareness is the buzzword.
[13:45.580 --> 13:46.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Total Information Awareness.
[13:46.760 --> 13:47.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Total, total, total.
[13:47.600 --> 13:48.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: T-I-A.
[13:48.480 --> 13:48.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[13:48.900 --> 13:50.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: I see that phrase bandied about a lot now.
[13:50.920 --> 13:55.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: But there's actually an office inside the Defense Department that's got...
[13:55.640 --> 13:56.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, how would you describe the logo?
[13:57.000 --> 13:58.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's so 1984-ish.
[13:59.640 --> 14:08.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, well, it's, um, it's the, um, it's the pyramid with the eye on top, which anybody who's, um, who knows about the Masons would be familiar with.
[14:08.780 --> 14:11.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's an old Mason symbol, but it's also on the dollar bill, of course.
[14:11.480 --> 14:11.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[14:12.220 --> 14:17.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, um, it's that eye on top of the pyramid appearing at what appears to be our planet.
[14:18.160 --> 14:29.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, uh, people who are online right now, they can go visit this, um, www.darpa, D-A-R-P-A dot mil, M-I-L, slash I-A-O.
[14:30.340 --> 14:30.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[14:30.860 --> 14:34.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, take a look at that symbol while, while you continue to describe it.
[14:34.300 --> 14:35.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, while it's still there.
[14:35.360 --> 14:35.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[14:35.940 --> 14:41.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, so that's it, and it says, uh, uh, scientia est potentia, which is, um, knowledge is power.
[14:42.160 --> 14:42.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[14:43.000 --> 14:44.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: He's looking at me like I speak Latin.
[14:44.660 --> 14:45.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, wait a minute.
[14:46.060 --> 14:47.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: You, you go to Columbia.
[14:47.420 --> 14:47.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, come on.
[14:47.800 --> 14:49.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was the, uh, the slogan of my...
[14:49.520 --> 14:49.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Knowledge is power.
[14:49.860 --> 14:50.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, is that from 1984?
[14:51.100 --> 14:51.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[14:51.460 --> 14:51.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[14:51.840 --> 14:52.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: The strength is from 1984.
[14:52.980 --> 14:56.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Knowledge is power was the slogan of my junior high school of all things.
[14:56.380 --> 14:56.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[14:56.540 --> 14:57.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: They haven't quite gotten to the point of quoting it.
[14:58.280 --> 15:02.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: They got it from, uh, Francis Bacon, uh, circa 1580 or so.
[15:04.340 --> 15:05.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: The English philosopher.
[15:05.980 --> 15:06.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[15:06.240 --> 15:14.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, the purpose of this agency, we've, we've, it's been in a story on 2600, um, but the purpose of this agency, I'm kind of confused.
[15:14.660 --> 15:18.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, there seem to be so many agencies like this popping up, but this one is particularly scary looking.
[15:18.340 --> 15:18.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[15:18.680 --> 15:20.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, the, the logo almost says it all.
[15:20.720 --> 15:20.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[15:22.360 --> 15:24.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, you got the eye, you got the planet.
[15:24.300 --> 15:25.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's the planet, right?
[15:25.280 --> 15:25.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[15:25.740 --> 15:25.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[15:26.220 --> 15:28.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, we are just a country on the planet.
[15:28.300 --> 15:30.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're not, you know, we're not the entire planet, at least not yet.
[15:30.600 --> 15:30.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[15:30.960 --> 15:35.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, one of the funny things about the logo is that our particular continent doesn't appear on, on the globe.
[15:35.840 --> 15:39.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: You see, uh, a whole lot of Europe and Asia, and you see Australia.
[15:40.060 --> 15:41.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, so we're watching them.
[15:41.560 --> 15:41.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, um...
[15:41.600 --> 15:42.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: But, but, but we're on the other side.
[15:42.800 --> 15:45.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, Australia is actually, appears to be on the dark side.
[15:45.900 --> 15:50.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's the, it's on the part that isn't being illuminated by the all-seeing eye.
[15:50.880 --> 15:52.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they're lucky then, aren't they?
[15:52.500 --> 15:53.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, for the moment.
[15:53.580 --> 16:01.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: And then, of course, the all-seeing eye is certainly staring straight at the Middle East, but, but the whole fate of the Americas is really kind of unclear.
[16:01.180 --> 16:01.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[16:02.220 --> 16:05.800]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the idea is, basically, that, yeah, it's the all-seeing eye.
[16:05.900 --> 16:24.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: They want to take all different sources of communications intelligence, um, interception of, and, you know, we're not just talking about interception like, uh, with a court order of a particular person's phone or anything like that, but the kind of dragnet echelon type of thing where you're pulling in all emails,
[16:24.840 --> 16:39.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: all telephone calls, faxes, other kinds of electronic communication, and you're also pulling in all kinds of databases, whether they're government databases or private databases belonging to, uh, to hospitals or, um, your local, uh, video rental store or whatever,
[16:39.420 --> 16:51.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: and they want to integrate all of these sources into one system where they can search it the same way that you'd search the internet, or they can run little spiders on it the same way that search engines spider around the web.
[16:51.220 --> 16:51.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: But who is the they?
[16:52.540 --> 16:53.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you see, that's the problem.
[16:53.920 --> 16:54.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[16:54.580 --> 16:56.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is that it's not really clear.
[16:56.820 --> 16:59.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, DARPA is doing this, but DARPA isn't an intelligence agency.
[16:59.700 --> 17:01.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're a technology agency.
[17:01.340 --> 17:02.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're here to develop this stuff.
[17:03.040 --> 17:05.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, who's going to be in control of it?
[17:05.240 --> 17:07.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I would guess the Office of Homeland Security.
[17:07.780 --> 17:08.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah.
[17:08.320 --> 17:09.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: But they don't even really exist yet.
[17:09.880 --> 17:10.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, but they will.
[17:10.800 --> 17:11.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: They will.
[17:11.300 --> 17:11.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: They will.
[17:11.820 --> 17:13.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: But who?
[17:13.420 --> 17:14.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: Who will be controlling it?
[17:14.660 --> 17:20.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's the problem, is that, you know, even if Homeland Security is the most honorable bunch of folks that you ever met...
[17:20.340 --> 17:21.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't believe that.
[17:21.640 --> 17:30.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, if you just pretend for a minute, I mean, let's say that they're totally honorable and that they'll use this thing the way it really ought to be used.
[17:30.220 --> 17:33.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: And heck, it's a powerful system, and you could probably stop a lot of crime with it.
[17:34.480 --> 17:38.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, like I said, if you can read brainwaves, you can also stop a lot of crime.
[17:38.140 --> 17:39.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: But it doesn't make it right.
[17:39.000 --> 17:40.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: But who's going to control it tomorrow?
[17:40.380 --> 17:43.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, once you put something like this in place, who's going to control it?
[17:43.240 --> 17:45.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Who's going to say who has access to it?
[17:46.760 --> 17:50.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: And who's going to make sure that that's enforced?
[17:50.160 --> 17:55.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, even if somebody says, well, this is only something that can be accessed by such and such department...
[17:55.020 --> 17:56.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I think you're being kind of negative here.
[17:56.560 --> 18:06.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's not as if, you know, the watch lists that they put out on potential terrorists get out of hand, like that story that popped up on CNN the other day.
[18:06.440 --> 18:06.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: U.S.
[18:06.840 --> 18:09.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: watch list has taken on life of its own, the FBI says.
[18:09.900 --> 18:10.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[18:10.940 --> 18:21.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: FBI officials said on Tuesday they have lost control, that's their words, of an agency-created watch list of people wanted for questioning following September 11 terrorist attacks.
[18:22.180 --> 18:32.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: They acknowledge that the list, which has gone through several manifestations, has taken on a life of its own and has shown up on several websites and contains names of people who have been cleared of any possible connection in the last year's attack.
[18:32.900 --> 18:37.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: The FBI said the list was not a list of suspects, but people who agents wanted to talk to.
[18:37.160 --> 18:42.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: So basically they're saying, we wash our hands of this, it's out there and we can't control it anymore.
[18:42.420 --> 18:50.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, I think the blame does fall squarely on them because who started the list, who sent the list to various people who were irresponsible enough to send it all over the place.
[18:50.640 --> 18:52.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, who do we blame in the end?
[18:52.460 --> 18:55.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think the FBI has got to take responsibility for this.
[18:55.660 --> 19:02.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of innocent people are being targeted now who are, you know, not deserving of that kind of a thing.
[19:02.280 --> 19:07.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: A law enforcement official compared it to the weekly terror bulletins sent out to state and local law enforcement partners.
[19:08.120 --> 19:11.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Once that leaves headquarters, we have no control, they say.
[19:11.980 --> 19:15.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: However, it's wound up in the hands of private enterprise.
[19:15.340 --> 19:19.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Apparently it gets sent to car rental agencies and other such places.
[19:20.160 --> 19:26.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just for the sake of fun, I'm going to ask any of our moles in these places, if they have access to that list, send us a copy.
[19:26.420 --> 19:28.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because let's see how easy it is to get a copy of this list.
[19:29.420 --> 19:35.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you can send it to OTH at 2600.com or just mail it to us or leave it on our doorstep or something like that.
[19:36.540 --> 19:42.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, if this thing is that kind of security threat, let's see how secure it really is.
[19:42.540 --> 19:43.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think it's secure at all.
[19:43.720 --> 19:46.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think a lot of innocent people are being taken advantage of.
[19:46.720 --> 19:49.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's the same basic threat on all of these.
[19:49.960 --> 19:52.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, whether it's DARPA or whether it's FBI.
[19:54.280 --> 19:57.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Basically, when you start these things, yeah, they don't get dismantled.
[19:57.920 --> 19:59.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: They stay there and they get abused.
[19:59.760 --> 20:04.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: And before you know it, everybody is able to look up anything and find out all kinds of personal information.
[20:05.240 --> 20:06.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's no end.
[20:07.280 --> 20:08.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: You mentioned Australia.
[20:08.960 --> 20:10.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Interesting things coming from Australia, too.
[20:11.220 --> 20:19.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Police in New South Wales will be given extraordinary powers to search vehicles, sites, and even a general, quote, type of person, unquote.
[20:20.700 --> 20:23.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: What type of person do you think they'd say we were?
[20:23.580 --> 20:24.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: What does that mean?
[20:24.600 --> 20:25.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[20:25.320 --> 20:26.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'd love to find out.
[20:26.700 --> 20:31.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: A general type of person in the event of a terrorism threat or after a terrorist attack.
[20:31.460 --> 20:35.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, do they mean military folk, a general type of person?
[20:35.920 --> 20:37.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, they don't mean that.
[20:37.200 --> 20:38.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not capital G.
[20:38.800 --> 20:43.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: But that's interesting because, coincidentally, Australia has gotten a terrorist attack.
[20:43.480 --> 20:46.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: They've received a terrorist threat, rather, that they were looking for.
[20:46.600 --> 20:47.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that enables them to do this.
[20:48.480 --> 21:01.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: The terrorism bill, or otherwise known as the police powers bill, would allow police acting on credible information to stop search and demand the names and addresses of anyone who fitted the broad description of a potential terrorist.
[21:02.640 --> 21:03.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Human.
[21:04.500 --> 21:05.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is that broad enough for you?
[21:05.820 --> 21:18.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: The premier, Bob Carr, has outlined the details of the new legislation, which he described as, quote, one of the most significant bills introduced into the New South Wales Parliament, unquote.
[21:18.620 --> 21:30.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Under the legislation, the police commissioner, the deputy commissioners, or in their absence, an officer above the rank of superintendent could authorize the search of people, vehicles, and sites without a warrant over a seven-day period.
[21:30.920 --> 21:39.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: And in the event of an attack, police could be given the same powers for 48 hours and the opportunity to extend that time if deemed necessary.
[21:40.860 --> 21:43.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's like we're watching some science fiction thing unfold.
[21:44.280 --> 21:45.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's unbelievable.
[21:45.620 --> 21:47.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, 1984 was on TV last night.
[21:47.680 --> 21:49.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: The one from 1984 that was made in 1984.
[21:50.100 --> 21:57.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was so familiar just looking at the people screaming at the telescreen and, you know, embracing Big Brother.
[21:58.600 --> 22:00.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: It seems more familiar every day.
[22:00.980 --> 22:06.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we were speaking just a moment ago about this suspect list, but it's soon going to be a thing of the past.
[22:06.640 --> 22:15.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, if you look at this example in Australia, and if you look at the total information awareness example, the suspect list is going to be more like the phone book.
[22:15.880 --> 22:21.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're not going to really need one because the exceptions will be the people who aren't the suspects.
[22:21.740 --> 22:21.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[22:22.680 --> 22:23.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, absolutely.
[22:23.920 --> 22:29.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's an excellent article in the New York Times by William Sapphire called You Are a Suspect that everybody should take a look at if they can.
[22:30.300 --> 22:31.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: They go into a little more detail.
[22:31.620 --> 22:35.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, actually, that William Sapphire article has... I read that on the train the other day.
[22:36.420 --> 22:41.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: I broke my promise and I took a train again, you know, on Long Island, which I regret doing.
[22:41.940 --> 22:46.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't know if I want to get into this, but they really... they did something.
[22:46.820 --> 22:47.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: They lost a train.
[22:47.900 --> 22:49.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: They basically lost a train.
[22:49.480 --> 22:50.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they didn't really lose a train.
[22:50.920 --> 22:55.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: What they did was they gave out schedules a week ahead of time.
[22:55.580 --> 23:04.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: So everybody got on the wrong train thinking there'd be a connecting one when there wasn't because we were still on the old schedule, but they hadn't given out the old schedule, they gave out the new schedule, so all these people were stranded.
[23:05.660 --> 23:08.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like I said, I should keep to my promises and give up.
[23:08.840 --> 23:11.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is this one of these double-decker diesel ones that they're doing now?
[23:11.420 --> 23:13.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was supposed to be, but it wasn't.
[23:13.820 --> 23:14.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was nothing.
[23:14.460 --> 23:15.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: So there wasn't even any novelty to it.
[23:15.780 --> 23:16.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: It was just a shame.
[23:16.280 --> 23:17.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Standing on a platform for an hour.
[23:18.580 --> 23:25.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, about the target person, they go into a little bit more detail as to what exactly a type of person is.
[23:25.880 --> 23:31.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: We've made it very clear, for example, the description of Middle Eastern appearance would not be sufficient.
[23:31.880 --> 23:34.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: It would have to go further in the detailing of that person.
[23:34.540 --> 23:40.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: It may well be a Middle Eastern person with a beard and identification scarring.
[23:41.240 --> 23:42.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, hey, wait.
[23:42.940 --> 23:43.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh-huh.
[23:44.340 --> 23:45.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: What's this about the beard?
[23:45.900 --> 23:47.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you don't look Middle Eastern.
[23:47.800 --> 23:49.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Not especially, anyway.
[23:51.180 --> 23:52.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, you don't have to worry.
[23:53.780 --> 23:53.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[23:54.240 --> 24:01.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Also, sticking with Australia for a moment, a national ID card incorporating biometric features would help stem the rising tide of identity theft.
[24:01.900 --> 24:03.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's the other scare word going around.
[24:04.220 --> 24:08.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, that's according to a security and surveillance forum that was held in Sydney.
[24:08.420 --> 24:18.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: Australian Federal Police forensic expert James Brandy said a better system for verifying personal identity was needed and a national card would solve a lot of problems.
[24:18.740 --> 24:23.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: As criminal activity patterns shift to ID theft, the impact is worse for individuals, he said.
[24:23.800 --> 24:26.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Your credit rating can be destroyed within a matter of hours.
[24:28.660 --> 24:30.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Now, is this really true?
[24:30.380 --> 24:30.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, yeah.
[24:31.580 --> 24:36.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Somebody can, uh, you know, can get a hold of your credit card, they can get a hold of all kinds of other things.
[24:36.500 --> 24:46.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: But identity theft is, you know, it's, it's something that I don't think is as impossible to deal with as, uh, as, as the people who want you to panic are saying.
[24:46.180 --> 24:51.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's something in it for them if you panic and say, we have to have this because otherwise someone could steal my identity.
[24:52.020 --> 24:53.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: And what's more important to me than my identity?
[24:55.460 --> 25:03.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, in these situations where people have their identity stolen and somebody's running around buying things as them or, or pretending that they're dead or something like that.
[25:03.660 --> 25:11.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: The big problem always seems to be that when they call up these, these companies that think that, uh, they're up to something that they're not up to.
[25:11.420 --> 25:13.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: When they explain, well, no, you see, that's not me.
[25:14.140 --> 25:19.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm, I'm really still alive and, and not buying lots of gold jewelry, uh, all over the world.
[25:20.520 --> 25:21.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, people don't believe them.
[25:21.980 --> 25:23.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: They trust the computers before they trust the people.
[25:24.960 --> 25:26.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's just stupidity.
[25:26.300 --> 25:26.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: That can be treated.
[25:27.200 --> 25:27.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah.
[25:28.000 --> 25:40.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, this, uh, this, however, I mean, once, once you establish national ID cards, uh, to quote, unquote, fight these things, um, again, you're setting up something which is never going to be dismantled, something that, uh, can be used for all kinds of nefarious purposes.
[25:40.600 --> 25:44.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I don't think it's really, uh, much, uh, we'll do much, uh, you know, to solve this problem.
[25:45.720 --> 25:47.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: It'll, it'll just cause a lot of other problems.
[25:49.360 --> 25:54.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, uh, national ID cards, uh, one step closer in Australia.
[25:54.980 --> 25:57.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, wasn't Australia, like, founded by prisoners?
[25:57.120 --> 25:58.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: You'd think they'd be used to crime.
[25:59.500 --> 26:00.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they should be more accepting.
[26:01.160 --> 26:03.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I guess, uh, that's a, that's a valid point there, Mike.
[26:03.820 --> 26:16.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, language tucked inside the Homeland Security bill will allow the federal government to track the email, internet use, travel, credit card purchases, phone, and bank records of foreigners and U.S.
[26:16.620 --> 26:18.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: citizens in its hunt for terrorists.
[26:18.520 --> 26:19.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's, that's us, folks.
[26:20.140 --> 26:21.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's, that's the United States.
[26:21.420 --> 26:37.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, in what one critic has called a Super Snoop's dream, the, uh, this is what we were talking about before, the Defense Department's Total Information Awareness Program would be authorized to collect every type of available public and private data in what the Pentagon describes as one centralized grand database.
[26:38.800 --> 26:49.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, in a blistering op-ed piece in the New York Times entitled You Are a Suspect, columnist William Sapphire compared the database to George Orwell's Big Brother Government in the novel 1984.
[26:50.580 --> 26:51.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Listen to this.
[26:51.140 --> 26:57.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: To this computerized dossier on your private life from commercial sources, add every piece of information that government has about you.
[26:57.960 --> 27:13.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Passport application, driver's license, and bridge toll records, judicial and divorce records, complaints from nosy neighbors to the FBI, your lifetime paper trail, plus the latest hidden camera surveillance, and you have the Super Snoop's dream, a total information awareness about every U.S.
[27:13.800 --> 27:14.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: citizen.
[27:15.300 --> 27:16.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's unbelievable.
[27:16.940 --> 27:19.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, uh, you know, it's hard to distinguish fiction from fact.
[27:20.040 --> 27:30.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but, um, as, um, as this, um, people are saying, uh, including, uh, Representative Bob Barr, Georgia Republican, it's outrageous, it really is outrageous.
[27:32.480 --> 27:37.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, he's lobbying the Senate to remove this and other provisions, but, uh, I don't think they succeeded.
[27:37.320 --> 27:39.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think, uh, the whole Homeland Security thing passed.
[27:40.080 --> 27:46.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because a key number of Democrats, like, heaved in and said, okay, we're gonna, uh, we're gonna, uh, compromise.
[27:47.200 --> 27:51.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: More than a key number, 90 senators voted for this thing.
[27:51.600 --> 27:51.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[27:52.840 --> 27:53.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: Out of, out of a hundred.
[27:53.980 --> 27:54.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Out of a hundred.
[27:54.720 --> 27:54.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[27:54.840 --> 27:54.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[27:55.240 --> 27:56.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bob Barr really is a hero now and again.
[27:57.260 --> 28:05.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, yeah, uh, but, um, I don't know, uh, we, we, we, that, that, there need to be more people that see this kind of thing, and there just aren't.
[28:05.200 --> 28:06.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's, it's an uphill battle.
[28:06.380 --> 28:18.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I guess, you know, if there's any, uh, any good that comes out of the election results, what's, what's gonna be happening in the years ahead, it's that everything bad that happens from this point on will be blamed squarely on the Republicans.
[28:19.100 --> 28:21.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: And they just won't be able to talk their way out of it this time.
[28:21.720 --> 28:30.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: And maybe, maybe the opposition in the future will actually have some backbone, you know, and that they, they may actually stand for something different, unlike what the Democrats have been doing.
[28:30.700 --> 28:32.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, I don't think this is a partisan issue.
[28:32.860 --> 28:35.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: As I said just a moment ago, 90 people voted for this.
[28:35.640 --> 28:37.060]  [SPEAKER_10]: Most of them were, or that's because...
[28:37.060 --> 28:37.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Many of them were Democrats.
[28:37.960 --> 28:39.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's because there's no real difference between the two.
[28:39.860 --> 28:47.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: But there, you know, there's enough of a difference that, uh, you know, there won't be any argument with anything George Bush wants to do in the next, uh, couple of years.
[28:47.960 --> 28:50.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but, uh, no, there is, there's no significant difference.
[28:50.880 --> 28:59.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, um, if we go down a really bad road, which it looks like we're doing, um, people might actually demand some kind of change and it might actually happen.
[29:00.540 --> 29:02.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's the only good I can see out of this.
[29:02.960 --> 29:04.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm, I'm grasping at straws.
[29:05.580 --> 29:06.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, okay.
[29:06.420 --> 29:08.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: So everything bad has been passed.
[29:08.640 --> 29:24.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, and there's nothing, uh, really, uh, internet providers such as America Online, uh, could give the government more information about subscribers and police would gain new internet wiretap powers under legislation creating the new Department of Homeland Security.
[29:24.160 --> 29:30.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, provisions of the bill tucked into a section about cybersecurity enhancements receive scant attention during debate.
[29:30.820 --> 29:37.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, most of these provisions passed the House as part of separate legislation in an overwhelming 385 to 3 vote during the summer.
[29:37.800 --> 29:39.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, but they were never considered in the Senate.
[29:39.820 --> 29:47.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Many are similar to changes made last year under the USA Patriot Act, which included, uh, new laws affecting internet wiretaps and hacker investigations.
[29:49.220 --> 29:53.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, one new provision, uh, this is from the Associated Press, by the way.
[29:53.680 --> 30:01.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: One new provision raises possible criminal penalties to life in prison for hackers caught during electronic attacks that cause or attempt to cause death.
[30:02.640 --> 30:08.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not sure there's ever been a hacker attempt that has attempted to cause death or has caused death.
[30:08.780 --> 30:12.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'd think that an attempt to cause death would be a crime by itself without any special new laws or anything.
[30:12.740 --> 30:13.300]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'd think that.
[30:13.420 --> 30:14.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: You would think that.
[30:14.360 --> 30:15.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: I guess it depends who's doing it.
[30:16.100 --> 30:20.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but, um, what I'm worried about is how they're going to define attempting to cause death.
[30:20.740 --> 30:24.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, what they're actually going to, um, uh, you know.
[30:24.640 --> 30:30.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure they would accuse Mitnick of attempting to cause death somehow by looking at source code for cellular phones.
[30:30.320 --> 30:38.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because that source code could be used to, you know, overtake 9-1-1 and cause the whole thing to crash, and people would die, and I don't know.
[30:38.320 --> 30:40.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: They'd probably starve Qualcomm employees to death.
[30:40.160 --> 30:42.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that could, that could be as well.
[30:42.540 --> 30:46.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, an attack aimed at causing, quote, serious bodily injury.
[30:46.760 --> 30:55.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know how hackers can cause serious bodily injury by hacking, but, uh, uh, if they say that it does, it could, uh, result in 20 years behind bars.
[30:57.340 --> 31:06.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: We must not ignore the growing threat of cyber attacks, said Representative Lamar Smith of Texas, who first introduced the proposals as the Cyber Security Enhancement Act.
[31:07.800 --> 31:12.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, just a few years ago, hackers vandalized popular commercial and government websites.
[31:12.520 --> 31:14.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think, you know, that's, that's a better way of saying it.
[31:14.900 --> 31:18.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: I wouldn't even say it was hackers, but vandalizing is, is the appropriate term.
[31:18.840 --> 31:22.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, including, uh, those websites for the Pentagon, White House, and Senate.
[31:22.960 --> 31:30.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Um, but, uh, compared with the threat of electronic shutdowns of critical services, such attacks seem like simple nuisances.
[31:30.920 --> 31:38.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, supporters of the sentencing changes for hackers say they eliminate differences with penalties for other crimes that might also result in deaths.
[31:38.700 --> 31:44.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, critics noted that some prosecutors have been accused of exaggerating the scope and financial damages from hacker attacks.
[31:45.580 --> 31:47.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, they have been accused of that.
[31:48.000 --> 31:49.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right here, they've been accused of that.
[31:49.860 --> 31:52.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, we gotta keep a sharp eye on that.
[31:52.280 --> 32:07.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, another part of that Cyber Security Enhancement Act that I don't think, uh, was mentioned right there was that, um, um, there's a provision in there that says that any state or local government agency must reveal any information that they have about any person,
[32:08.500 --> 32:18.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: um, in violation of their privacy if a federal agency comes to them and explains that there is some kind of pending, immediate threat going on.
[32:18.900 --> 32:21.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: I would imagine this is a terrorist threat or something like that.
[32:22.060 --> 32:23.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: But essentially, no warrant.
[32:24.240 --> 32:32.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Federal government comes to you, local firemen, school principal, whatever, and says to you, we need information on this individual.
[32:32.100 --> 32:36.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: You'll be required under this Cyber Security Enhancement Act to provide that information.
[32:36.860 --> 32:50.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: And all you have to do is, afterward, you have to notify the Justice Department of, uh, what information you gave out, and not even really the specifics, just, um, on how many individuals, um, it pertained to and to whom you disclosed it.
[32:50.220 --> 32:50.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's it.
[32:51.440 --> 32:54.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: This whole thing, it really makes me think a lot.
[32:54.320 --> 33:01.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, after September 11th, you have to look at these, you know, in fairly stark terms and ask, who benefited from that?
[33:01.420 --> 33:04.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, was it, uh, religious zealots in another part of the world?
[33:04.460 --> 33:05.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, not really.
[33:05.320 --> 33:06.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: They didn't benefit at all.
[33:07.780 --> 33:11.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: The people who want these kinds of things are the ones who benefited.
[33:12.380 --> 33:14.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that really, uh, that really scares me.
[33:14.920 --> 33:23.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're just perched, waiting for an opportunity to take advantage of a gullible public, someone, uh, uh, who knows when, when, when people are vulnerable.
[33:24.600 --> 33:28.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: And they're out there, you know, and you have to, uh, you have to recognize the signs.
[33:29.060 --> 33:32.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I think we're, we're seeing this, uh, put into, uh, practice right now.
[33:32.840 --> 33:45.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, going over to England, uh, Britain is considering a controversial scheme to implant surgically electronic tags in convicted pedophiles, amid fears that the extent of the abuse of children has been massively underestimated.
[33:45.900 --> 33:53.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Documents obtained by the Observer reveal the government could track pedophiles by satellite with a system similar to that used to locate stolen cars.
[33:54.800 --> 34:01.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: You have to know where all the pedophiles are, you have to know where the stolen cars are, and then you can gradually, you know, expand upon that until everybody gets one of these things at birth.
[34:02.120 --> 34:06.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because maybe they'll get abducted or they'll turn into a crazy person, and, uh, you have to know where they are.
[34:07.540 --> 34:08.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know?
[34:08.120 --> 34:15.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, uh, by, by implanting surgically electronic tags in people now, uh, we're, we're, we're starting it up.
[34:15.440 --> 34:19.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're starting up something that will become, uh, commonplace.
[34:19.500 --> 34:30.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: The tags can be put beneath the skin under local anesthetic, and would also be able to monitor the heart rate and blood pressure of the abuser, alerting staff to the possibility that another attack was imminent.
[34:31.120 --> 34:37.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: So I guess if their heart rate and blood pressure, like, changes, that means they're about to commit a, uh, uh, a crime, a pedophile, that is.
[34:37.820 --> 34:39.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: What if they go for a jog or something?
[34:40.080 --> 34:42.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I was just gonna say they can't be a jogger or go for a run?
[34:44.120 --> 34:44.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[34:45.060 --> 34:45.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[34:45.420 --> 34:46.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe they can tell.
[34:46.140 --> 34:49.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's maybe the difference between jogging heart rate and sex crime heart rate.
[34:50.200 --> 34:51.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[34:51.140 --> 34:58.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm not an expert on these things, but, uh, we must trust the people who, uh, are obsessed with this that, uh, they will do the right thing.
[34:59.100 --> 35:11.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Tracker is the name of the company that runs Britain, uh, Britain's largest stolen vehicle monitoring network, and they've already been approached about pedophile monitoring, and, uh, computer company Compaq has been asked to develop the software.
[35:13.000 --> 35:19.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, Compaq has already developed similar technology for NASA to monitor remotely the bodily functions of astronauts.
[35:19.960 --> 35:28.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, in the case of pedophiles, the technology, uh, would not measure sexual excitement, but would monitor the offender's state of nervousness and fear.
[35:29.000 --> 35:33.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: So if you get a confident pedophile, I guess you're, uh, you're out of luck.
[35:35.600 --> 35:42.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, uh, I guess I'll be sending pedophiles up on the space shuttle to really do some good experiments and get this thing finalized.
[35:43.220 --> 35:45.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, if these really do become widespread, it'll be great.
[35:45.520 --> 35:54.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: They'll be able to graph the overall nervousness of the nation so that when they do all of this, uh, panicking in the media, you can see how effective it is just like that.
[35:54.260 --> 36:00.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, can you imagine if everybody had one of these things and you were just able to tell by satellite when people are nervous, you know?
[36:00.360 --> 36:05.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: You'd be able to swoop down on them and, you know, find out why they're nervous and help them before they do something they regret.
[36:05.760 --> 36:07.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: It will be a service to society.
[36:07.300 --> 36:07.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.
[36:09.420 --> 36:11.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[36:11.900 --> 36:13.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're here live this week, as we are every week.
[36:14.380 --> 36:17.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, we'd like to know what you think about all this.
[36:17.180 --> 36:19.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: I know we haven't depressed people too much.
[36:19.200 --> 36:20.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just remember we're all going through it together.
[36:21.360 --> 36:25.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, uh, as long as this radio station is here, we have, uh, we have a voice.
[36:25.400 --> 36:28.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: We have a way of reaching people, and that's, that's kind of important.
[36:28.920 --> 36:33.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes, I know people are driving around in the tri-state area, swerving off the road after hearing the things we're saying.
[36:33.960 --> 36:35.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's, uh, it's frightening.
[36:35.680 --> 36:36.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: It really is.
[36:36.220 --> 36:37.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: For instance, listen to this.
[36:37.240 --> 36:38.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: Just this, this paragraph.
[36:38.480 --> 36:43.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: In a victory for the Bush administration, a secretive appeals court Monday ruled the U.S.
[36:43.260 --> 36:47.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: government has the right to use expanded powers to wiretap terrorism suspects.
[36:48.060 --> 36:49.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: A secretive appeals court.
[36:49.960 --> 36:53.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, those words would not have even been uttered years ago.
[36:53.440 --> 36:55.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: And now they're just commonplace.
[36:55.260 --> 36:56.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're just hidden inside stories.
[36:56.780 --> 36:57.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Courts that we don't know about.
[36:57.900 --> 37:02.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Justice being, you know, handed out, uh, without any kind of, uh, explanation.
[37:03.040 --> 37:08.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Missiles being aimed at people in foreign countries that we deem suspects and just obliterated off the face of the earth.
[37:08.660 --> 37:10.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: And maybe someday they'll do that here, too.
[37:10.760 --> 37:12.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: You'll see a missile crash down in a car on Fifth Avenue.
[37:13.120 --> 37:14.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, that was a terrorist.
[37:14.640 --> 37:15.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Move along.
[37:16.680 --> 37:17.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's what we're moving into.
[37:18.680 --> 37:25.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, in a 56-page ruling overturning a May opinion by the Secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.
[37:25.900 --> 37:28.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, they're not secret enough not to have a name, I guess.
[37:28.580 --> 37:34.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, the three-judge appeals court panel said the Patriot Act gave the government the right to expanded powers.
[37:35.860 --> 37:39.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we kinda warn people about that, and that is definitely true.
[37:39.960 --> 37:42.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: The Secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.
[37:42.320 --> 37:46.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Do you think it's illegal for us to try and find out more about the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court?
[37:46.740 --> 37:49.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like, where they are, and who's on them, and things like that?
[37:49.360 --> 37:56.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: They were in the news fairly recently when, for the first time in our history, they denied the government something.
[37:56.920 --> 37:58.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right, and this is...
[37:58.020 --> 37:58.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: That was in May.
[37:59.280 --> 38:01.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is what's being overturned now.
[38:01.220 --> 38:07.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: The Secret Court had actually made a pretty good decision, which is that they said that the Patriot Act didn't authorize these new snooping powers.
[38:07.520 --> 38:08.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: But that's been overturned.
[38:08.540 --> 38:09.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this was in May.
[38:10.080 --> 38:18.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Seven judges that comprised the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court unanimously told the government it had gone too far in interpreting the law to allow broad information sharing.
[38:18.920 --> 38:27.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: And now, a secretive appeals court, I guess, a secretive appeals court to the Secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court apparently has overturned that.
[38:28.100 --> 38:28.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mm-hmm.
[38:28.660 --> 38:30.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's not a secret anymore.
[38:30.460 --> 38:34.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: And because the case is DOJ versus DOJ, there won't be an appeal.
[38:35.980 --> 38:36.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[38:36.720 --> 38:38.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, it's probably illegal to even try.
[38:40.200 --> 38:41.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, enough of that.
[38:41.820 --> 38:43.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: How about some...
[38:43.000 --> 38:44.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Boy, the phone lines are really ringing.
[38:44.620 --> 38:48.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's do some listener mail real quick, and then we'll take some phone calls.
[38:48.960 --> 38:52.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: A bunch of people wrote in about the GSM questions we had.
[38:52.780 --> 38:57.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: We were asking people to experiment with their GSM phones in this country.
[38:57.940 --> 39:02.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: One person wrote in and said, I picked up AT&T and T-Mobile on my GSM phone in Philadelphia.
[39:02.760 --> 39:05.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't tried switching because I'm afraid of unknown charges.
[39:05.680 --> 39:10.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, you're never going to learn anything that way if you're afraid of unknown charges just for hitting a button on your phone.
[39:12.060 --> 39:14.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: First of all, just switching over is not going to cost you anything.
[39:14.940 --> 39:17.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's making a phone call or receiving a phone call might cost you something.
[39:18.180 --> 39:24.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: But it's our contention that nowhere in this country can you switch from one company to the other and start making phone calls.
[39:26.440 --> 39:35.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: This person writes in and says, No company will allow roaming in the same country because these companies will not want other customers from different companies to use their service.
[39:35.200 --> 39:39.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: For example, mobile company number one has superior service, but high prices.
[39:40.100 --> 39:43.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Mobile company number two has crappy service, but low prices.
[39:44.240 --> 39:51.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: If mobile company two customers would use mobile company one services at a possibly lower price, then why sign up with mobile company one?
[39:51.700 --> 39:55.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think you can ask that question anyway, you know, even without being able to switch back and forth.
[39:56.980 --> 40:01.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then this person wrote in from Norway saying, I just thought you should know that we have the same situation in Norway.
[40:01.860 --> 40:06.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can see the two main networks, but you cannot select any other than the one you pay your bills to.
[40:07.220 --> 40:13.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that raises an interesting question because when I was in Norway, I was able to switch from one company to another over there on my GSM phone.
[40:14.180 --> 40:15.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe we have it all wrong.
[40:15.700 --> 40:19.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe when you're in your home country, you don't have the ability to switch.
[40:20.440 --> 40:23.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: But when you go to other countries, do you have the ability to switch?
[40:23.220 --> 40:33.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: And when people come to this country, do they have the ability to switch from T-Mobile and AT&T or whatever two GSM companies serve an area at the same time?
[40:34.260 --> 40:35.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's something I'd like to know more about.
[40:36.120 --> 40:38.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: People can continue to experiment and let us know what they find out.
[40:38.980 --> 40:42.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was very impressed when I went to Europe and I was able to switch between companies.
[40:42.560 --> 40:47.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just assumed everybody had that capability, but maybe we didn't quite get it right.
[40:50.080 --> 40:50.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's see now.
[40:54.700 --> 40:55.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: I've got to skip that one.
[40:58.740 --> 40:59.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[41:01.520 --> 41:02.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is interesting.
[41:02.340 --> 41:03.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Then we'll take some phone calls right after this.
[41:03.480 --> 41:04.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: 212-209-2900.
[41:05.040 --> 41:05.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Jeff, you have something?
[41:05.840 --> 41:06.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I've got a couple of things here.
[41:06.880 --> 41:07.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, go ahead.
[41:09.100 --> 41:10.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uzi Nissan's name popped up.
[41:10.680 --> 41:11.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, Uzi Nissan.
[41:11.400 --> 41:11.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: How is he?
[41:11.880 --> 41:17.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know how he is, but they just spoke about the fact that everyone was probably familiar with his case.
[41:17.300 --> 41:17.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[41:17.880 --> 41:41.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: And just to keep his Nissan.com domain name, more of the same stuff came about the Atlanta Journal-Constitution was reporting that their staff music writer, Bill Wyman, has received a cease and desist letter from lawyers representing former Rolling Stone Bill Wyman for a seriously misleading and arguably an intentional,
[41:41.680 --> 41:46.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: unauthorized exploitation of our client's name, goodwill, and publicity value.
[41:46.940 --> 41:56.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: It should be interesting to see how this one plays out because Bill Wyman, the musician, was born William George Perks and changed his name to Bill Wyman in 1964.
[41:57.120 --> 42:00.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: Journalist Bill Wyman was given that name at birth in 1961.
[42:01.480 --> 42:01.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's interesting.
[42:01.960 --> 42:04.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: So they want him to not use his name.
[42:04.780 --> 42:06.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: His birth name.
[42:06.180 --> 42:06.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: At all.
[42:06.820 --> 42:08.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not just to put out rock and roll albums.
[42:08.840 --> 42:10.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's just writing anything.
[42:10.660 --> 42:12.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's his job as a music critic.
[42:13.000 --> 42:13.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: And that's his name.
[42:13.920 --> 42:14.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: That is his name, yeah.
[42:14.780 --> 42:16.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, the guy who killed Lennon.
[42:17.260 --> 42:18.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: What was his name?
[42:18.680 --> 42:19.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is that Mark Chapman?
[42:19.640 --> 42:21.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or was that the guy who tried to kill Reagan?
[42:21.280 --> 42:22.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: I get them mixed up all the time.
[42:22.840 --> 42:23.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, whatever.
[42:23.620 --> 42:28.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's a writer in a newspaper that does, I think, music reviews with the same name.
[42:28.800 --> 42:29.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it's music, you know?
[42:30.000 --> 42:34.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, if there was a new John Lennon compilation out, he might wind up reviewing it.
[42:35.360 --> 42:36.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Imagine that!
[42:36.500 --> 42:37.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's kind of disturbing right there.
[42:37.860 --> 42:39.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, you kind of know.
[42:39.980 --> 42:40.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's not the same person.
[42:41.060 --> 42:41.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, you use your brain.
[42:42.040 --> 42:42.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: And you know it's...
[42:42.880 --> 42:46.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: People do have, you know, the same name.
[42:46.460 --> 42:47.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: It happens sometimes.
[42:47.480 --> 42:48.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: No pun intended.
[42:48.500 --> 42:48.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[42:48.620 --> 42:49.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Could you imagine that, right?
[42:49.140 --> 42:51.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just found out there was another Emanuel Goldstein in a famous book.
[42:52.100 --> 42:52.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know?
[42:53.280 --> 42:55.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, boy, it's surprising to find out these things.
[42:55.900 --> 42:57.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's all kinds of coincidences.
[42:58.260 --> 42:58.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: What else do you have?
[42:58.960 --> 43:08.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've got another piece here about technology that renders optical media useless after a short lifespan will soon find its way into stores from the perishable DVDs.
[43:09.220 --> 43:14.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: I understand, down south, they started giving a sample DVD to buyers of a CD.
[43:15.140 --> 43:17.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Something by Nappy Roots, a hip-hop group.
[43:17.780 --> 43:21.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: And this promotional DVD from Atlantic Records will work for only eight hours.
[43:22.580 --> 43:23.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Eight hours?
[43:23.380 --> 43:24.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: What if you...
[43:24.180 --> 43:25.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: What takes you that long to get to the store?
[43:25.900 --> 43:26.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, no, no.
[43:26.400 --> 43:27.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Once you break the seal...
[43:27.900 --> 43:28.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, okay.
[43:28.420 --> 43:31.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: ...on the package, it starts to oxidize.
[43:31.780 --> 43:33.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's no longer good after eight hours.
[43:33.460 --> 43:35.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: What if you keep it in, like, a vacuum?
[43:36.700 --> 43:37.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know.
[43:37.900 --> 43:42.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: That may be an expensive way to maintain your DVD collection, but...
[43:42.320 --> 43:44.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: If it's necessary, that's what I'll do.
[43:44.600 --> 43:48.600]  [SPEAKER_07]: See, the important thing that I got a kick out of this article was the spin that they were putting on this.
[43:48.720 --> 43:58.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: This promotion is aimed at finding if music fans would be interested in buying a package that both audio and video, that has both audio and video, instead of just plain audio.
[43:58.600 --> 44:04.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: A special dye sandwich between the layers of the DVD will interact with air, making it opaque and unreadable later.
[44:04.780 --> 44:09.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: If this media catches on, you may not have to return your DVD rentals in the future.
[44:09.580 --> 44:10.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: Like, that's a big plus.
[44:11.840 --> 44:15.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: If every time you want to see a movie, you now have to pay for it.
[44:15.960 --> 44:16.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you...
[44:16.460 --> 44:19.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: They'll turn this into all DVDs.
[44:19.060 --> 44:22.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: You won't be able to buy them anymore without this kind of lifespan on it.
[44:23.500 --> 44:26.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is an interesting letter somebody wrote in from Canada.
[44:28.220 --> 44:29.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: I believe they wrote in from Canada.
[44:30.200 --> 44:30.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: I saw it.
[44:30.980 --> 44:32.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this person is a Canadian citizen.
[44:33.160 --> 44:35.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm writing you in hopes that you will read this on the air.
[44:35.380 --> 44:36.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, he got your wish.
[44:37.000 --> 44:40.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: So that American people will see what is going on in your House of Representatives.
[44:40.860 --> 44:52.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: I myself am a Canadian citizen, which in my opinion provides me with good coverage of your administrative system and shelter from the media hype being used to stir up emotion and manipulate the American people.
[44:52.600 --> 44:53.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, there's some truth to that.
[44:54.420 --> 44:58.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: We all have the ability to get out and see alternative viewpoints.
[44:58.900 --> 45:00.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: We just have to work a little bit at it.
[45:00.740 --> 45:04.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I know in other countries you kind of get that a lot easier.
[45:06.920 --> 45:11.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think most people listening to this show have already made the attempt to find alternative views.
[45:11.900 --> 45:15.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: You just have to continue doing that and get other people to do that as well.
[45:15.580 --> 45:17.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, continuing with the letter.
[45:17.200 --> 45:21.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: I recently found this quote while surfing the net looking for information on the Homeland Security bill.
[45:22.180 --> 45:31.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: We were given a massive new bill this morning that is being rushed through the House with no opportunity for debate, said Representative Henry Waxman of California.
[45:32.240 --> 45:35.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: I doubt more than ten people in Congress know what's in the bill.
[45:36.780 --> 45:46.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is extreme abuse of the democratic system, especially when you consider the important bills such as Homeland Security bill that will greatly affect the life of the American people.
[45:46.300 --> 45:52.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think that the Bush administration is well aware of this, and they're actively exploiting this vulnerability in the American democratic system.
[45:52.960 --> 45:54.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Take, for example, the Homeland Security Act.
[45:54.840 --> 45:58.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Part of this act states that a malicious hacker, if convicted, may face life imprisonment.
[45:59.180 --> 46:06.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Clearly, this does not contribute to Homeland Security at all, which also could bring this email to another topic of malicious hackers.
[46:06.160 --> 46:13.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: How can a hacker who is not malicious defend themselves against a group of people who clearly do not understand the technology nor the mindset or motives of a hacker?
[46:14.080 --> 46:17.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we saw that for years in the Kevin Midnick case and the Bernie S.
[46:17.600 --> 46:18.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: case as well.
[46:18.260 --> 46:20.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, how do you explain it to these people?
[46:20.280 --> 46:22.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: How do you avoid the hell that they want to put you through?
[46:24.920 --> 46:35.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Anyway, it's interesting to look at this, especially the fact that most people in Congress probably haven't read these bills all the way through and they have very little time to debate them and to think about them.
[46:36.560 --> 46:39.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Unfortunately, they just get past and we're stuck with them.
[46:40.880 --> 46:42.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: 212-209-2900.
[46:42.620 --> 46:44.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just one more quick thing.
[46:44.320 --> 46:58.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: The cable companies are paying Blockbuster employees a bounty for turning in people that brag or talk about having access to boxes or illegal boxes, illegal cable.
[46:59.220 --> 47:00.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm not sure I understand.
[47:00.180 --> 47:01.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: You mean if you're...
[47:01.580 --> 47:04.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you happen to go in and rent a movie, yeah, we're going to watch this after the game.
[47:04.700 --> 47:05.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we have a box.
[47:05.960 --> 47:06.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're going to have to pay for our cable.
[47:07.400 --> 47:09.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, if you say that inside a Blockbuster store...
[47:09.900 --> 47:11.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: And the employee...
[47:11.160 --> 47:12.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: The employee hears you.
[47:12.480 --> 47:13.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, how are they going to know who?
[47:13.680 --> 47:14.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because of the card.
[47:14.780 --> 47:15.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: Exactly.
[47:15.500 --> 47:15.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh.
[47:16.340 --> 47:17.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so wait a minute.
[47:17.380 --> 47:17.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: They have all the information they need.
[47:17.920 --> 47:18.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: This could be fun.
[47:19.240 --> 47:21.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: A lot of people out there have Blockbuster cards.
[47:22.060 --> 47:22.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: How about this?
[47:22.780 --> 47:25.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're open until midnight or maybe even 1am now, some places.
[47:25.940 --> 47:31.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Everybody with a Blockbuster card, go to your local Blockbuster and brag about how you get cable for free and see what happens.
[47:32.760 --> 47:34.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Those people who do get cable for free don't do that.
[47:35.980 --> 47:40.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: But those of you who don't, go in there and just start bragging about how you get all this stuff for free.
[47:40.480 --> 47:42.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bring a friend so you don't seem like a crazy person talking to yourself.
[47:42.960 --> 47:44.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Or maybe bring a cell phone and just talk to that.
[47:45.700 --> 47:47.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: And yeah, let's see if that's true.
[47:47.600 --> 47:49.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: They get a bounty for turning people in.
[47:49.720 --> 47:50.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is from an employee.
[47:50.920 --> 47:51.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: So it's...
[47:51.260 --> 47:52.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: You heard this first hand.
[47:53.240 --> 47:55.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: Excuse me, second hand from his friend.
[47:55.520 --> 47:55.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[47:55.820 --> 47:58.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: But I'm actually going to find out if it's $50 or $100.
[47:58.380 --> 47:59.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, well let's find out.
[47:59.580 --> 48:03.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Maybe we can even like, you know, split it with the people at Blockbuster.
[48:03.200 --> 48:03.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: But they won't find anything.
[48:04.320 --> 48:04.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know.
[48:04.900 --> 48:06.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: It would be interesting to find out what happens.
[48:06.740 --> 48:08.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: You might want to tell your parents about this too, kids.
[48:08.840 --> 48:10.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: In case they wonder who's knocking at the door.
[48:11.220 --> 48:12.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: 212-209-2900.
[48:12.460 --> 48:13.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's take some phone calls.
[48:13.280 --> 48:13.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good evening.
[48:13.660 --> 48:14.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're on the air.
[48:14.300 --> 48:14.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[48:14.700 --> 48:16.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: A couple of very small details.
[48:17.480 --> 48:22.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: The DARPA is under the offices of the NRO, the National Reconnaissance Office.
[48:22.780 --> 48:24.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: The black budget of the NRO.
[48:24.940 --> 48:26.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: You familiar with that organization?
[48:26.660 --> 48:31.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, DARPA is not funded under any kind of black budget or anything.
[48:31.420 --> 48:35.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: They may have divisions which are, but the NRO is a separate organization under the Defense Department.
[48:38.220 --> 48:41.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's listed as under their...
[48:41.640 --> 48:43.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure how you phrased the question.
[48:43.860 --> 48:44.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: You were saying how...
[48:44.760 --> 48:47.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: You were saying what does DARPA get their commands or something?
[48:48.780 --> 48:50.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember how you phrased it.
[48:50.960 --> 48:55.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: DARPA is part of the DOD and their budget is a DOD research budget for the most part.
[48:55.580 --> 48:57.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: They may have projects underneath DARPA.
[48:57.840 --> 48:58.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[48:58.400 --> 49:03.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: There are two projects that I know about that were joint projects with the NRO.
[49:03.640 --> 49:10.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: The next thing is the Hughes Aircraft Corporation in 1995 started what they called subdermal identitags.
[49:10.620 --> 49:20.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they were micro, like, rice grain-sized chips that they implanted with epidermic needles for identification of their employees.
[49:20.740 --> 49:22.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hughes, I think, was the first to do that.
[49:22.340 --> 49:27.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I wanted to mention the article in The Economist about a month ago...
[49:27.080 --> 49:30.180]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, two issues ago, on mind control.
[49:30.960 --> 49:32.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: There is a technique...
[49:32.640 --> 49:33.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard of this?
[49:33.600 --> 49:36.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's called fMRI, functional magnetic resonance imaging.
[49:37.480 --> 49:49.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Where they claim that it's to help people with depression, but when you read further, it describes how they can activate states of mind and aggravate people or relax them.
[49:50.680 --> 49:57.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, every time they say that they can't do things like motor functions, you know that, of course, they can.
[49:57.680 --> 49:58.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Where it says that...
[49:58.560 --> 49:58.800]  [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[49:59.220 --> 50:03.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: Where it tells you that this is not about tracking the guy down for sexual impulses.
[50:04.160 --> 50:06.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's because they're looking for fear.
[50:06.320 --> 50:07.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's about the sexual impulses.
[50:07.740 --> 50:08.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Right.
[50:08.800 --> 50:09.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, thanks for the info.
[50:09.720 --> 50:09.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[50:10.600 --> 50:11.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Got to move pretty fast.
[50:11.720 --> 50:13.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Any more calls in?
[50:13.040 --> 50:13.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[50:14.360 --> 50:16.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Manuel, it's Montag calling from Virginia.
[50:17.160 --> 50:17.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey, what's up?
[50:17.860 --> 50:22.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I was calling because I'm finally Verizon 3 at my house.
[50:23.760 --> 50:24.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: You what?
[50:24.520 --> 50:25.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: I've escaped from Verizon.
[50:25.920 --> 50:27.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, you've escaped from Verizon.
[50:27.140 --> 50:27.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, congratulations.
[50:28.180 --> 50:33.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, unfortunately, I escaped to Comcast, who's been merging with AT&T now.
[50:33.840 --> 50:34.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Ah, yes.
[50:34.420 --> 50:37.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I did have a technical question for you guys, though.
[50:38.140 --> 50:38.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[50:38.580 --> 50:46.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: I've just obtained an Eagle One phone switch that a friend of mine got from a renovation.
[50:46.900 --> 51:00.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: On home service, is there a way to do that caller ID spoofing thing with your own phone switch, or is that a little bit outside of a home service package capability?
[51:00.680 --> 51:01.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's a good question.
[51:01.880 --> 51:04.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't have the resources right now to answer that.
[51:04.660 --> 51:07.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you send me an email, I might be able to forward it to some people that can help.
[51:08.380 --> 51:08.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, certainly.
[51:10.140 --> 51:10.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[51:10.880 --> 51:17.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: How did your thing with your shortwave in your car work out?
[51:17.360 --> 51:18.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's an ongoing battle.
[51:19.720 --> 51:22.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Actually, what I'm doing, I'm waiting for my car to die because it's kind of old.
[51:22.560 --> 51:28.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: And rather than have got all this trouble to fix it and get the shortwave working properly, I think I'll just wait for the car to die and then put the radio in the new car.
[51:28.500 --> 51:30.240]  [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of radio do you have for that?
[51:30.240 --> 51:33.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's a Sony, and it comes from the United Arab Emirates.
[51:34.240 --> 51:34.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, really?
[51:34.780 --> 51:35.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's really kind of cool.
[51:36.260 --> 51:41.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll email you and ask you more about that because I was going to get a shortwave so I can listen to your show down here, too.
[51:41.820 --> 51:42.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, great.
[51:42.480 --> 51:43.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, cool.
[51:43.260 --> 51:45.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I hope the show went well today.
[51:45.080 --> 51:47.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't get an opportunity to listen to it.
[51:47.460 --> 51:53.520]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, well, it's still going on, so we're going to continue with another phone call and good luck with that buzzing noise, whatever that was.
[51:53.800 --> 51:54.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Good evening.
[51:54.380 --> 51:54.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're on the air.
[51:55.680 --> 51:55.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[51:56.180 --> 51:56.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[51:56.700 --> 51:57.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: How are you doing?
[51:57.340 --> 51:58.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: A couple of really quick things.
[51:58.780 --> 52:01.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: First of all, DARPA doesn't report to NRO.
[52:02.340 --> 52:02.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[52:02.860 --> 52:04.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think we established that.
[52:04.200 --> 52:04.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[52:04.820 --> 52:09.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: NRO is a major client, as are lots of agencies, but that's not their mission.
[52:10.180 --> 52:10.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[52:10.340 --> 52:22.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: The second thing is on these CDs, DVDs that go away in eight hours, we've already shown that in that window you can certainly make a digital copy, and that works just fine.
[52:22.200 --> 52:23.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[52:23.240 --> 52:24.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the third thing...
[52:24.120 --> 52:25.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Without using DECSS, I might point out.
[52:26.180 --> 52:26.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yep.
[52:26.480 --> 52:26.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's correct.
[52:27.000 --> 52:27.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[52:27.460 --> 52:29.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the third thing is just another coincidence.
[52:29.340 --> 52:35.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Not only are there multiple Emanuel Goldsteins, but there are even multiple Eric Crowleys.
[52:35.960 --> 52:36.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Really?
[52:36.440 --> 52:36.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[52:36.800 --> 52:37.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Isn't that astounding?
[52:37.860 --> 52:38.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'll have to tell him that.
[52:38.740 --> 52:39.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Take care.
[52:39.280 --> 52:39.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[52:40.740 --> 52:41.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: How about that?
[52:41.600 --> 52:43.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: 212-209-2900.
[52:43.580 --> 52:44.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: And good evening.
[52:44.360 --> 52:44.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're on the air.
[52:46.040 --> 52:46.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Speak up, please.
[52:47.000 --> 52:47.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[52:47.340 --> 52:47.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hi there.
[52:47.680 --> 52:48.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hi.
[52:49.240 --> 52:51.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I was hoping to get in on the 2600 board.
[52:52.020 --> 52:54.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, this is the off-the-hook radio show.
[52:55.020 --> 52:55.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're on the air now.
[52:57.020 --> 52:58.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, Emanuel, you've got to help me.
[52:58.780 --> 52:59.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I'll try.
[52:59.620 --> 53:02.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think maybe I'm turning into a conspiracy theorist.
[53:02.660 --> 53:04.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's not hard these days.
[53:04.800 --> 53:16.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, I've been reading the paper, and I see that this guy, John Poindexter, who got kicked out the National Security Advisory, is working for the government again and trying to voice software to watch people.
[53:16.620 --> 53:17.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[53:17.220 --> 53:18.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's making me paranoid.
[53:19.000 --> 53:19.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[53:19.300 --> 53:28.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's funny how those people who are convicted of doing evil things somehow become entrusted to do more evil things, except this time have permission to do it.
[53:29.720 --> 53:31.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, but it doesn't stop there.
[53:31.620 --> 53:32.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, it certainly doesn't stop there.
[53:33.940 --> 53:41.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: As a matter of fact, I moved to the UK a few years ago and felt some relief, but then I felt like I was being watched.
[53:41.200 --> 53:43.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, the UK is not much better.
[53:43.840 --> 53:54.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I used to change in the parking lot before going for a run, and then I noticed these cameras following me, and I realized that they're watching me.
[53:54.520 --> 53:55.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're big on cameras over there.
[53:56.020 --> 53:56.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: They really are.
[53:56.640 --> 53:58.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: And talking cameras, too.
[53:58.240 --> 53:58.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's great.
[53:58.680 --> 54:05.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: In Piccadilly Circus once, I saw these drunken teenagers standing in a fountain, and this loudspeaker came out of nowhere just saying, please get down from there.
[54:06.500 --> 54:09.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: They had a camera on them, and apparently somebody's watching it.
[54:09.220 --> 54:10.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Some of them are pretty polite, too.
[54:10.920 --> 54:11.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they're very polite.
[54:12.240 --> 54:18.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, they'll say please and sir a lot while they're abusing your rights, just like the NYPD, but it doesn't make it any better.
[54:19.140 --> 54:19.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know?
[54:19.600 --> 54:19.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: No.
[54:20.680 --> 54:27.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then I see this thing called the Patriot Act, and so on, where the government...
[54:27.080 --> 54:29.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I did some research, though.
[54:29.420 --> 54:35.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: I did a reverse-definition lookup on what these things are, and I came up with the term manifest destiny.
[54:35.880 --> 54:36.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh-huh.
[54:37.380 --> 54:41.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: You might remember that that's the God-given right.
[54:41.640 --> 54:54.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was a quote, a democratic leader in 1845 to describe the move west, the right of our manifest destiny to spread over and to possess the whole of the, I'm quoting, of the continent, which Providence has given us for the development of a great experiment.
[54:55.040 --> 55:00.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: In other words, everything west of the Mississippi was our manifest destiny to rule it.
[55:00.180 --> 55:09.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: God gave us that right, and I'm thinking that this all has the feel of a sort of a manifest destiny euphoria to it, you know?
[55:09.320 --> 55:22.980]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, in that regard, and just to close things off here, because we are kind of out of time, I think we are also part of a destiny, and we have to be where we are right now, you know, listening and speaking out and being aware and inviting other opinions and stuff like that,
[55:23.020 --> 55:27.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: and that's the importance of what we do and what this whole community is about.
[55:27.660 --> 55:30.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: And hopefully we'll be here for a while, and hopefully we'll be able to continue doing this.
[55:31.000 --> 55:32.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: With your support, we will.
[55:32.900 --> 55:34.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is Manuel Goldstein for Off The Hook.
[55:34.400 --> 55:38.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: We've reached the end of another week, just when we're starting to get going again, we've got to get out of here.
[55:38.500 --> 55:39.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: But we'll be back again next week.
[55:40.140 --> 55:41.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Until then, have a good night.
[55:41.860 --> 55:42.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm trying not to get too depressed.
[55:43.680 --> 55:45.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: One, two, three, four.
[55:45.420 --> 55:46.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: One,
[55:54.810 --> 56:15.180]  [SPEAKER_03]: two, three, four.
[56:31.360 --> 56:31.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: Keep piecing the music.
[56:34.440 --> 56:35.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: We were Natomiast, Martyn,verside Rock-ybill, first.
[56:35.380 --> 56:38.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Amazing job in backane wear, two, three, four, two, three.
[56:38.240 --> 56:38.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: But?
[56:38.640 --> 56:39.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll have a good day after off.
[56:39.200 --> 56:39.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Anyway, we'll be right back.
[56:39.520 --> 56:40.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: All of this week, I'm coming for a good day with a fine film from the Ring woman!