Off The Hook - 2002-12-04

[00:00.000 --> 00:08.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: ...from Pauline Bartolone, web support from Vanessa Tate, and our interns are Rosalind Faye, Susan Chelly, Fernando Romero, Christopher Martinez, and William Perdomo.
[00:09.140 --> 00:10.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm Deepa Fernandez.
[00:20.590 --> 00:23.170]  [SPEAKER_03]: WBAI FM New York City 99.5
[00:37.290 --> 00:38.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: I couldn't have said it better myself.
[00:38.850 --> 00:41.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is, um, well, it's 7 o'clock.
[00:41.210 --> 00:42.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: We know what station it is.
[00:42.790 --> 00:43.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: WBAI in New York.
[00:44.110 --> 00:45.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's Wednesday night.
[00:45.330 --> 00:46.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's time for Off the Hook.
[00:51.750 --> 00:53.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: The telephone keeps ringing.
[00:54.090 --> 00:56.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I ripped it off the wall.
[00:57.210 --> 00:59.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: I cut myself while shaving.
[00:59.730 --> 01:01.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now I can't make a call.
[01:02.450 --> 01:04.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: We couldn't get much worse.
[01:05.250 --> 01:07.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: But if they could, they would.
[01:07.410 --> 01:10.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bum, diddly-bump, but the best, expect, or worst.
[01:10.710 --> 01:12.610]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hope that's understood.
[01:12.830 --> 01:13.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bum, diddly-bump!
[01:39.800 --> 01:41.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the program is Off the Hook.
[01:42.120 --> 01:44.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be a very interesting show.
[02:21.950 --> 02:23.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Set today.
[02:24.610 --> 02:27.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Front page captioned.
[02:27.570 --> 02:28.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Red lighted.
[02:29.890 --> 02:33.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Natives dressed as terrorists.
[02:34.550 --> 02:36.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: Tribal war a perfect plan.
[02:37.090 --> 02:39.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: For the one that can't last.
[02:39.710 --> 02:41.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Since that ain't you or me.
[02:41.870 --> 02:43.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Tribal war continually.
[02:44.390 --> 02:46.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Out of milk for malnutrition.
[02:46.910 --> 02:48.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Send us some more ammunition.
[02:49.350 --> 02:51.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Never mind the ivory tray.
[02:51.230 --> 02:53.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's go plot a hand grenade.
[02:54.090 --> 02:55.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you, boss.
[02:56.670 --> 02:57.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Forehead cross.
[03:00.970 --> 03:02.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Appreciate goodwill.
[03:03.710 --> 03:05.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no.
[03:06.190 --> 03:07.310]  [SPEAKER_05]: Stomach for a loss.
[03:08.610 --> 03:10.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[03:10.890 --> 03:12.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: I feel quite ill.
[03:13.650 --> 03:15.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Ah, ah, ah.
[03:15.870 --> 03:16.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Rally round the flag.
[03:17.210 --> 03:18.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Rally round the flag.
[03:19.730 --> 03:21.810]  [SPEAKER_05]: But we got so many.
[03:22.670 --> 03:24.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: I guess that's why.
[03:25.510 --> 03:27.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why you act.
[03:29.530 --> 03:31.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: Like we ain't got any.
[03:32.470 --> 03:34.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: Charles has come home again.
[03:35.270 --> 03:37.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Heard the news, dumb and vain.
[03:37.410 --> 03:38.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Had to split.
[03:38.650 --> 03:39.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: No room to swing.
[03:39.990 --> 03:40.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Some see.
[03:40.710 --> 03:42.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Want it in to sink.
[03:42.370 --> 03:43.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Easy to see.
[03:43.530 --> 03:44.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, unity.
[03:44.910 --> 03:46.770]  [SPEAKER_05]: Masses rule by minority.
[03:47.330 --> 03:49.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: When these guys come on the scene.
[03:49.830 --> 03:51.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: Ruin the good blues party.
[04:13.150 --> 04:14.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: I know.
[04:15.430 --> 04:17.930]  [SPEAKER_05]: I heard the tune before.
[04:18.070 --> 04:21.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: I thought as I was.
[04:21.530 --> 04:22.970]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was kicked through the door.
[04:24.070 --> 04:27.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Something bowed at Mission B.
[04:28.310 --> 04:30.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: But I was sure.
[04:31.430 --> 04:32.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: House belonged to me.
[04:33.630 --> 04:37.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: They told us to go in stereo.
[04:38.630 --> 04:42.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: Machine guns against spear and bow.
[04:43.270 --> 04:45.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: A dumb bar.
[04:45.810 --> 04:46.730]  [SPEAKER_05]: TV cameraman.
[04:48.430 --> 04:51.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Someone called the tear gas man.
[04:53.170 --> 04:54.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: White night.
[04:54.530 --> 04:55.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Ride our roles.
[04:55.630 --> 04:57.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Lyrics for the protest songs.
[04:58.170 --> 05:00.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: Number one top of the charts.
[05:00.510 --> 05:01.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: Rock and roll.
[05:01.630 --> 05:02.610]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bleeding hearts.
[05:02.830 --> 05:05.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: They offer us a special pack.
[05:05.030 --> 05:07.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: They knew there had to be a catch.
[05:07.770 --> 05:09.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Family treats pulled at the roof.
[05:10.070 --> 05:12.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: They still bear that old strange fruit.
[05:12.710 --> 05:14.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Plenty reasons.
[05:14.750 --> 05:15.430]  Plenty reasons
[05:18.440 --> 05:18.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: begun.
[05:19.820 --> 05:21.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Down in the slum.
[05:22.240 --> 05:24.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Stake your claim.
[05:24.280 --> 05:25.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: Blow by blow.
[05:26.920 --> 05:30.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Saw my pals go flying through the window.
[05:33.290 --> 05:34.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Lions.
[05:34.310 --> 05:35.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: Lions in a jungle.
[05:38.970 --> 05:40.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: Jungles in a cave.
[05:41.330 --> 05:43.530]  [SPEAKER_05]: Try, try, trouble.
[05:43.990 --> 05:45.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: Trouble in the homeland.
[05:45.490 --> 05:46.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: Trouble in the homeland.
[05:46.570 --> 05:46.570]  Trouble in the homeland.
[05:48.750 --> 05:50.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: Bosses in a rage.
[05:50.910 --> 05:53.410]  [SPEAKER_05]: I know mister if it was you.
[05:53.730 --> 05:56.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: It would be cut down like a flower.
[05:56.330 --> 05:58.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: Some things never change.
[05:58.730 --> 06:00.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Corporate crime gets re-raged.
[06:01.110 --> 06:03.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: Only out for personal gain.
[06:03.530 --> 06:05.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Grab the land and seize the power.
[06:06.090 --> 06:08.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: What's all this about big day?
[06:08.010 --> 06:10.750]  [SPEAKER_05]: Don't you know the lions play?
[06:14.310 --> 06:18.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: And a good evening to everybody with words that somehow never seem to lose their meaning.
[06:18.710 --> 06:20.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: They go to your dynamite from their first album.
[06:23.230 --> 06:24.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the guy that sings our theme.
[06:28.110 --> 06:31.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the Wednesday after Thanksgiving weekend.
[06:31.190 --> 06:36.470]  [SPEAKER_00]: I say that because Thanksgiving is always the time where you hang out with conservatives.
[06:36.810 --> 06:37.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't care who you are.
[06:37.810 --> 06:39.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you are conservative, you hang out with conservatives.
[06:39.810 --> 06:42.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: If you're liberal, you hang out with conservatives because you go home to the relatives and things like that.
[06:42.950 --> 06:49.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's sort of where you share experiences and try to be tolerant and that kind of thing.
[06:49.070 --> 06:58.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: And one thing I realized from talking to people and from talking to other people who talk to even more people, everybody hates John Ashcroft.
[06:59.650 --> 07:00.970]  [SPEAKER_00]: Conservatives, liberals, everybody.
[07:00.970 --> 07:01.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: They all do.
[07:02.410 --> 07:03.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's unbelievable.
[07:03.670 --> 07:04.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's true, though.
[07:04.750 --> 07:06.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, ask around, you'll see.
[07:06.770 --> 07:09.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: And not only that, just about everybody is...
[07:09.070 --> 07:17.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I wouldn't say just about everybody because there are a few nincompoops out there, but a large number of people really aren't looking forward to yet another bombing campaign in Iraq.
[07:18.970 --> 07:24.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's just interesting to see how different sides can sort of unite on certain things.
[07:24.790 --> 07:28.610]  [SPEAKER_00]: It should be interesting a few months ahead.
[07:31.370 --> 07:39.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's even more interesting because of the things that we're going to tell you tonight, which we always tell you frightening things, but this is really frightening because it's something that happened to one of our listeners.
[07:44.090 --> 07:47.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: What I'm going to do is I'm going to read you a letter, and then we're going to talk to the person live.
[07:49.110 --> 07:50.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: And you can judge for yourself.
[08:02.990 --> 08:09.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: We got this letter yesterday from a gentleman named Mike McGinnis.
[08:11.370 --> 08:17.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, I thought I'd tell you about an experience I had this morning, this morning being Tuesday, yesterday.
[08:18.730 --> 08:21.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: He lives out in the Denver area.
[08:22.610 --> 08:26.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: Vice President Dick Cheney is here in Denver, or at least he was yesterday.
[08:27.750 --> 08:38.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, Dick Cheney is the guy nobody ever knows where he is because for some reason we can't tell people where he is because there would be a security violation, as if anybody cares about Dick Cheney in the first place.
[08:38.630 --> 08:41.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: But he was in Denver yesterday.
[08:42.510 --> 08:43.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: Continuing with the letter.
[08:44.570 --> 08:47.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: He was staying at a hotel downtown.
[08:48.470 --> 08:51.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: My route this morning took me past the hotel.
[08:52.050 --> 08:59.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: And as I had my camera with me, since I'm an amateur photographer and I always carry my camera, I took the opportunity to take a few pictures.
[09:01.410 --> 09:10.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, the pictures were of several black beret-wearing army rangers positioned outside the hotel.
[09:10.970 --> 09:13.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: They were chatting with a few of Denver's finest.
[09:14.410 --> 09:19.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: I also snapped a few shots of the snipers stationed on the rooftops of the buildings facing the hotel.
[09:20.070 --> 09:23.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: If I could just step out of the letter for a second, I've done the same thing many times when I go to D.C.
[09:24.250 --> 09:26.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: Photographed snipers on top of the roof of the White House.
[09:26.450 --> 09:32.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: I've done the same thing in New York at the WEF conference and various other things that have happened over the years.
[09:33.110 --> 09:35.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's what you do in a free society.
[09:35.410 --> 09:36.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: You take pictures.
[09:36.470 --> 09:37.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's get back to the letter.
[09:40.190 --> 09:44.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: It was a couple of blocks away from the hotel that the snipers were on the rooftops.
[09:44.670 --> 09:50.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: And as I was putting my camera away, I was approached by a uniformed police officer who asked me what I was doing.
[09:52.270 --> 09:56.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how many ways you can answer the question, but basically he answered it the truthful way.
[09:56.450 --> 09:58.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: Just taking a few pictures, I replied.
[09:58.890 --> 10:06.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: The policeman said I was seen taking pictures of the vice president's security and as such he was confiscating my camera and film.
[10:07.770 --> 10:11.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: When I refused to give up the camera, he pushed me down and arrested me.
[10:13.030 --> 10:21.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: After a ride to the local police station and a few hours alone in an interrogation room, I was questioned by a man who identified himself as a secret service agent.
[10:22.110 --> 10:33.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: He said that my, quote, suspicious activities, unquote, made me a threat to national security and I was going to be charged as a terrorist under the USA Patriot Act.
[10:34.210 --> 10:41.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: He also kept trying to get me to admit that I was a terrorist and that I was going to use the pictures I took to cause, quote, terror and mayhem.
[10:44.090 --> 10:48.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: When I refused to play along, he called me a raghead collaborator and a dirty pinko faggot.
[10:49.370 --> 10:53.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: After nearly an hour of this, I was allowed to make a phone call, ostensibly to contact a lawyer.
[10:55.190 --> 11:00.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: Instead, I called the Denver Post, thinking the local press might be interested in something like this.
[11:01.630 --> 11:07.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: And when the desk sergeant heard me ask for the news desk, he hung up the phone I was using and I was placed in a holding cell.
[11:08.770 --> 11:14.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: After another hour or two, I was released with no explanation and was told only that they knew who I was now and they would be watching me.
[11:15.330 --> 11:21.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: When I asked for my camera, I was told it was being held as evidence and that I probably would not get it back.
[11:21.930 --> 11:23.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess taking pictures now makes me a terrorist.
[11:24.030 --> 11:25.570]  [SPEAKER_00]: You'd think I was photographing a bridge.
[11:26.710 --> 11:28.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: Nice country we live in, signed Mike.
[11:29.410 --> 11:31.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mike McGinnis joins us from the Denver area.
[11:31.970 --> 11:32.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mike, you there?
[11:32.910 --> 11:33.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hey, Emmanuel.
[11:33.630 --> 11:34.110]  [SPEAKER_00]: How you doing?
[11:34.570 --> 11:34.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm alright.
[11:35.010 --> 11:35.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: How are you?
[11:35.310 --> 11:36.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, pretty good.
[11:36.610 --> 11:38.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty shaken up after seeing this letter of yours.
[11:40.770 --> 11:42.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's some follow-up.
[11:42.450 --> 11:47.070]  [SPEAKER_00]: You've been in touch with a couple of people since then.
[11:48.010 --> 11:52.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: I understand the police department is now denying that they ever held you in the first place?
[11:53.010 --> 11:53.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, that's right.
[11:53.830 --> 12:00.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: I spoke to an ACLU lawyer this afternoon and he made some phone calls and basically the police department says that they never had me.
[12:01.750 --> 12:03.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it was his opinion.
[12:03.770 --> 12:16.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know if I agree with this or not, but it was his opinion that what happened was that the Denver Police Department was basically working for the Secret Service, you know, to help provide security for the Vice President.
[12:16.310 --> 12:21.790]  [SPEAKER_16]: And when this happened, they simply turned all the paperwork over to the Secret Service and washed their hands of the whole incident.
[12:23.470 --> 12:29.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, you said in your letter that there was a Secret Service agent in the room.
[12:30.390 --> 12:30.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[12:32.710 --> 12:35.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, now, the Secret Service was there while this was going on?
[12:36.310 --> 12:36.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah.
[12:36.850 --> 12:37.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[12:37.410 --> 12:38.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: They were there.
[12:39.650 --> 12:46.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I mean, basically the police put me in an interrogation room and let the Secret Service agent, you know, have at me, sort of.
[12:47.270 --> 12:51.010]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, the Secret Service, were they the ones that were asking most of the questions?
[12:52.090 --> 12:53.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, it was just me and him.
[12:53.470 --> 12:56.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: There were no police officers in the room when the question was happening.
[12:56.750 --> 12:59.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: And he's the one who called your raghead collaborator Dirty Pinko Faggot?
[12:59.510 --> 13:00.430]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, that's right.
[13:00.810 --> 13:01.030]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[13:01.590 --> 13:03.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, did you happen to get any names while you were there?
[13:04.910 --> 13:14.090]  [SPEAKER_16]: I got his name, the agent's name, and I also have what I think is the arresting Denver Police Department officer's name, but I wasn't too sure.
[13:14.250 --> 13:19.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: My adrenaline was racing at the time and I wasn't really paying attention to the badge numbers and things like that.
[13:20.450 --> 13:21.670]  [SPEAKER_00]: But you remember the names?
[13:21.950 --> 13:22.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: I do.
[13:22.870 --> 13:23.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[13:24.510 --> 13:27.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, you remember where you were.
[13:28.750 --> 13:30.650]  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to tell us what building you were taken to?
[13:31.510 --> 13:32.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: The District No.
[13:32.490 --> 13:40.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: 1 police station, which is down on Decatur Street here in Denver, which is, I don't know, a couple of miles from where this was.
[13:40.930 --> 13:50.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: I was standing in the courtyard of the World Trade Center buildings here in Denver, which is across the street from the Adams Mark Hotel where the Vice President was staying.
[13:51.290 --> 13:55.410]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it faces the front entrance and that's where the Army Rangers were hanging out.
[13:55.770 --> 13:56.090]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[13:59.070 --> 14:02.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: It really seems incredible that they would behave like this.
[14:02.790 --> 14:09.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess I'm not very surprised to see this kind of a thing happen, but you were basically taking pictures.
[14:09.970 --> 14:11.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to tell us what kinds of pictures you were taking?
[14:12.030 --> 14:14.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, well, I take a lot of pictures downtown.
[14:14.650 --> 14:18.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's a lot of interesting buildings, a lot of interesting architecture out there.
[14:18.810 --> 14:19.070]  Mm-hmm.
[14:19.610 --> 14:25.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, you know, it's not every day that you see Army Rangers hang out in front of a civilian hotel like that with their M-16s.
[14:27.410 --> 14:27.810]  [SPEAKER_16]: So...
[14:27.810 --> 14:28.130]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[14:29.890 --> 14:31.990]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, how close did you actually get to the hotel?
[14:32.710 --> 14:34.330]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, I never crossed...
[14:34.330 --> 14:40.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was across the street and I was never actually on the hotel property.
[14:40.330 --> 14:40.550]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[14:40.750 --> 14:42.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: So you didn't trespass anywhere?
[14:42.410 --> 14:43.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't enter any buildings?
[14:43.850 --> 14:44.270]  [SPEAKER_16]: No.
[14:44.430 --> 14:45.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I was outside.
[14:46.030 --> 14:50.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: At any time, did any policemen say to stop taking pictures before they approached you?
[14:50.950 --> 14:51.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, no.
[14:51.690 --> 14:54.770]  [SPEAKER_16]: I had finished my role and was putting my camera away when I was approached.
[14:54.770 --> 14:56.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: I was done taking pictures.
[14:56.190 --> 15:05.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: So whoever it was either saw me as I was finishing up or went ahead and watched me and when they started putting the camera away, that's when they decided to approach me.
[15:05.630 --> 15:05.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[15:07.630 --> 15:09.050]  [SPEAKER_00]: And how many cops approached you?
[15:10.350 --> 15:15.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: One cop and his partner who kind of stood out to the side, you know, menacingly as they do.
[15:15.690 --> 15:16.530]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[15:19.310 --> 15:23.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: And can you describe the moment where they actually arrested you?
[15:24.050 --> 15:24.630]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, sure.
[15:24.930 --> 15:27.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: He asked me for my camera and film.
[15:27.670 --> 15:29.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: He said he was going to have to confiscate it.
[15:29.510 --> 15:31.610]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I said, well, I'm not going to give you my camera.
[15:32.370 --> 15:32.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[15:32.710 --> 15:34.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: He said, well, I'm going to have to arrest you.
[15:34.270 --> 15:35.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I said, for what?
[15:35.430 --> 15:38.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: And he put his hand on my shoulder and pushed me down to the ground.
[15:38.990 --> 15:42.830]  [SPEAKER_16]: And at that point, you know, I wasn't going to make things worse by trying to resist arrest.
[15:43.050 --> 15:43.290]  Mm-hmm.
[15:43.570 --> 15:44.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: So I just knelt down.
[15:45.250 --> 15:47.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the other cop took the camera out of my hand.
[15:48.190 --> 15:51.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's when they put the cuffs on me and put me in the car and drove me away.
[15:54.740 --> 16:02.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did they say anything at the time as far as, you know, anything bringing up the Patriot Act or anything involving terrorism or anything...
[16:02.820 --> 16:02.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
[16:03.340 --> 16:06.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: ...anything stupid that they might have said that can come back to haunt them?
[16:06.840 --> 16:08.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, there was no mention of that.
[16:08.180 --> 16:10.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: The cops were... the cops themselves were actually well-behaved.
[16:11.640 --> 16:17.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: I got the distinct impression that they probably didn't want to be there and didn't want to be doing that and that they were taking orders from somebody else.
[16:18.400 --> 16:19.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did they seem reluctant to arrest you?
[16:20.560 --> 16:22.000]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, they did at first.
[16:22.000 --> 16:31.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I think... I think they used my refusal to simply hand over the camera as an excuse to sort of get me off the street because there were... there were some passers-by that were taking an interest in what was going on.
[16:31.980 --> 16:34.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, how many people were gathering around while this was happening?
[16:35.200 --> 16:36.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, there wasn't really a gathering.
[16:36.780 --> 16:40.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was people walking by, you know, heads turned, slowing down a little bit to see what was going on.
[16:41.040 --> 16:41.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[16:41.580 --> 16:43.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: So there were witnesses to the fact that you were arrested?
[16:44.020 --> 16:44.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, yeah.
[16:44.680 --> 16:44.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[16:45.400 --> 16:50.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, while they were doing this, were other law enforcement people looking on, such as Secret Service agents or other policemen?
[16:51.380 --> 16:53.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, well, there were some other... other cops.
[16:53.860 --> 16:56.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, I was in plain view of the front of the hotel and the rangers were...
[16:56.580 --> 16:58.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: the rangers were watching me.
[16:58.180 --> 17:04.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: There were a few other cops out there that had turned to watch what was going on, but nobody, uh, nobody approached or, you know, drew a weapon or anything like that.
[17:05.180 --> 17:05.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[17:06.360 --> 17:09.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: So they threw you in the police car, they drove you down to, uh, the police station?
[17:09.840 --> 17:10.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: That's right.
[17:10.540 --> 17:10.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[17:10.770 --> 17:14.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: And then from that point on, uh, what, they just threw you into an interrogation room?
[17:14.320 --> 17:15.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did they fingerprint you?
[17:15.620 --> 17:15.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I was...
[17:15.920 --> 17:24.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: I was actually fingerprinted and photographed, um, and then sat in an, uh, in the interrogation room and, uh, said somebody would be with me.
[17:24.250 --> 17:41.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, and so I sat for a few hours and that's when the secret service came in and he basically went on and on about, you know, how would, how, how, why would anyone want to take pictures of the president's, uh, security forces unless they were going to use that to analyze weaknesses in security,
[17:42.440 --> 17:45.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: you know, and then possibly attempt, uh, to assassinate him.
[17:46.950 --> 17:53.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I, you know, I just told him, I said, hey, I'm just taking pictures and there's nothing, there's nothing that I know of in any U.S.
[17:53.290 --> 17:56.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: law or any state federal laws that say that I can't do that.
[17:58.840 --> 18:06.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing I can find either, nothing that I've, uh, I've ever heard that makes it illegal to take pictures of a building or of people inside, uh, inside a building.
[18:07.060 --> 18:07.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[18:07.420 --> 18:11.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it just seems unbelievable that this kind of thing would happen.
[18:11.270 --> 18:13.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now they didn't actually charge you with anything, did they?
[18:13.360 --> 18:13.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, no.
[18:14.210 --> 18:18.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: He, he mentioned the USA Patriot Act a few times and that I would be charged as a terrorist.
[18:18.300 --> 18:35.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: The interesting thing is that as far as I understand it, the USA Patriot Act is actually, um, an act that describes the limits, uh, or expanded capabilities of intelligence surveillance rather than, um, actual, you know, uh, terrorists themselves and any act that they might take.
[18:35.990 --> 18:36.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[18:36.450 --> 18:41.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's, it seems to me that whoever said that has limited understanding of just what exactly the law is.
[18:41.530 --> 18:41.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[18:41.840 --> 18:48.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: I imagine, I imagine it was said to intimidate you and to make, make it sound like they, they knew what they were talking about and that, uh, they're playing for keeps.
[18:49.430 --> 18:49.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Absolutely.
[18:50.270 --> 18:50.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[18:51.220 --> 18:55.430]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so, okay, uh, how long did the conversation with the secret service take place?
[18:55.860 --> 18:57.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, it lasted for about 45 minutes.
[18:58.360 --> 18:58.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[18:58.910 --> 19:03.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it was basically just a round and round, you know, why are you taking these pictures?
[19:03.430 --> 19:05.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: Because I want to, what, what are you going to do with them?
[19:05.990 --> 19:07.010]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm not going to do anything with them.
[19:07.100 --> 19:07.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: Are you a terrorist?
[19:08.120 --> 19:08.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I'm not.
[19:08.710 --> 19:09.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, you are.
[19:09.510 --> 19:10.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Back and forth, back and forth.
[19:12.370 --> 19:14.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, how civil was this guy?
[19:15.150 --> 19:18.530]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, he was, for the most part, uh, he was pretty civil.
[19:18.730 --> 19:21.910]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, he, you know, tried to raise his voice to threaten me a few times.
[19:21.910 --> 19:24.970]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, and I generally don't get intimidated by that sort of thing.
[19:25.170 --> 19:28.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I think he sensed that that probably wasn't the best way to go.
[19:28.750 --> 19:36.150]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, for the most part, he, I, I don't, I guess he was maybe looking for a logical way to make me confess to something that I wasn't going to do.
[19:36.510 --> 19:37.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know.
[19:39.150 --> 19:41.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, uh, was there any kind of physical intimidation?
[19:42.080 --> 19:42.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, no.
[19:43.010 --> 19:43.230]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[19:43.230 --> 19:45.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: No time that he reached across the table or anything like that.
[19:45.970 --> 19:51.150]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, basically, you were sitting at one end of the table, he was sitting at the other end of the table, and he was just basically trying to get you to admit to things.
[19:51.150 --> 19:51.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[19:52.170 --> 19:52.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[19:53.150 --> 19:57.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, did he try to intimidate you by bringing in, like, you know, friends, family, that kind of thing?
[19:58.250 --> 19:59.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: How would it affect them?
[19:59.750 --> 20:01.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, he, he'd mentioned my family.
[20:01.380 --> 20:06.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, my father was in the military, uh, retired, you know, after 23 years of service.
[20:06.150 --> 20:16.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: And he, he brought that up a few times about how, you know, that, how much it would embarrass my old man that, that I was a traitor and, you know, that I was, this was treason and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[20:16.450 --> 20:16.930]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[20:16.930 --> 20:17.510]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[20:17.730 --> 20:21.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, of course, wouldn't you admitting it also make it, make it embarrassing?
[20:21.320 --> 20:22.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: How would that encourage you to admit it?
[20:23.080 --> 20:26.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you would think so, yeah, but, you know, you don't know how their minds work sometimes.
[20:26.750 --> 20:32.490]  [SPEAKER_00]: I've always wondered, actually, after seeing the things that they've done in the past with, with, uh, with some of our people, it's unbelievable.
[20:33.270 --> 20:40.170]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, now, at some point, there had to be, um, I, I guess, a change in an attitude where they decided they weren't going to go after you.
[20:40.360 --> 20:41.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, can you define that moment?
[20:42.290 --> 20:59.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I, like I said, the round-to-round process went on for about 45 minutes and I guess he, he made this, you know, big flourish about, uh, how disgusted he was with me and that he couldn't do anything about it and do anything for me and I was, I was a lost case and threw up his hands and,
[20:59.510 --> 21:01.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: and, uh, gathered his papers and left the room.
[21:02.530 --> 21:02.970]  Uh-huh.
[21:03.080 --> 21:10.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, at that point, a police officer came in and, uh, said, uh, said, you can, you can have a phone call.
[21:10.590 --> 21:13.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, I, I'm assuming that they thought I was going to call my lawyer.
[21:14.850 --> 21:15.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[21:15.450 --> 21:16.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: And said you called the Denver Post.
[21:16.910 --> 21:21.470]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, and I called the Denver Post and asked for the news desk and the phone was out there at the sergeant's desk.
[21:22.130 --> 21:22.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-huh.
[21:22.490 --> 21:27.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, as soon as he heard me, uh, ask for, for the, the, the news desk, he hung up the phone.
[21:27.560 --> 21:27.910]  Uh-huh.
[21:28.100 --> 21:34.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: And they escorted me back to, uh, a holding cell and, uh, stayed there for a couple of hours and was released.
[21:34.690 --> 21:36.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember what he said when he hung up the phone?
[21:37.170 --> 21:38.930]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, he, he didn't really say anything.
[21:39.100 --> 21:44.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: He just, he hung it up and, uh, you know, motioned to, to another one of the cops and said take him back to holding.
[21:48.040 --> 21:50.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, there was nothing, no more interaction from that point on?
[21:51.460 --> 22:04.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, well, when I, when I was finally released after a couple of hours in the cell by myself, um, I wasn't really given any explanation as to why I was there, um, other than what had already been said to me.
[22:04.620 --> 22:08.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, I wasn't, there was no mention of court dates, anything like that.
[22:08.840 --> 22:13.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: When I asked for my camera, they said that it was being held as evidence and I probably wouldn't receive that back.
[22:15.900 --> 22:16.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did you ask why?
[22:18.040 --> 22:21.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, well, I, at that point I just kind of wanted to get out of there.
[22:21.580 --> 22:21.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[22:21.800 --> 22:23.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, you know, I was scared and tired and wanted to go home.
[22:24.280 --> 22:28.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, I'm sure that my lawyers, that's one of the things that they're going to be asking for.
[22:28.660 --> 22:30.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: Did they give you any kind of paperwork at all?
[22:31.220 --> 22:44.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, no, which is kind of surprising, uh, when you consider that usually when you're arrested and released, you're given an arrest report, which includes the officer's name, badge number, you know, the, the time of the incident, the details of the incident,
[22:45.040 --> 22:48.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: any, uh, any evidence that was obtained at the scene.
[22:48.660 --> 22:48.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[22:49.120 --> 22:49.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Mm-hmm.
[22:49.260 --> 22:49.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I got none of that.
[22:50.580 --> 22:55.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I guess in those situations where they want to deny that they ever held you, they don't give you paperwork.
[22:55.360 --> 22:56.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe that's what's going through their minds.
[22:57.300 --> 22:58.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, yeah, that's probably, probably the case.
[22:59.040 --> 23:02.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: And it wouldn't surprise me if they just handed all of that over to the Secret Service.
[23:02.400 --> 23:02.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[23:03.580 --> 23:07.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, now, at any point during this whole interrogation process, were you asking for a lawyer?
[23:08.620 --> 23:11.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, no, I, I didn't think I needed a lawyer.
[23:11.540 --> 23:12.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: I didn't do anything wrong.
[23:12.720 --> 23:13.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[23:13.720 --> 23:19.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, I mean, if anything, I felt that wrong was being done to me as far as civil rights violations, but...
[23:19.020 --> 23:19.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[23:19.520 --> 23:25.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know, um, I, I didn't, like I said, didn't need a lawyer because I didn't do anything.
[23:25.860 --> 23:26.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[23:27.880 --> 23:30.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's quite a, quite an ordeal that, uh, that you went through.
[23:30.520 --> 23:33.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: For those just tuning in, we're talking to Mike McGinnis from, uh, Denver.
[23:33.400 --> 23:34.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: You, you're from Denver?
[23:34.480 --> 23:34.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[23:34.840 --> 23:35.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[23:35.500 --> 23:44.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, he, uh, committed the crime yesterday of taking pictures on a public street of, uh, a hotel that Dick Cheney was staying in and, uh, was held for...
[23:44.840 --> 23:45.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: How many hours were he held for?
[23:46.320 --> 23:48.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, about six hours in total.
[23:48.460 --> 23:55.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: Six hours by, uh, local police and the Secret Service, threatened with, uh, imprisonment for being a terrorist, among other things.
[23:55.840 --> 24:00.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, I imagine it was a pretty intimidating, uh, type of experience overall.
[24:00.740 --> 24:03.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, my, my heart still gets racing when I talk about it.
[24:03.760 --> 24:04.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[24:04.120 --> 24:05.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Has there been any kind of media interest in this at all?
[24:06.880 --> 24:13.280]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, well, I called the Denver Post again this morning, and basically I was told that they're going to need, you know, some sort of proof of this.
[24:13.480 --> 24:13.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[24:14.740 --> 24:19.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Otherwise, it's just, you know, I, as far as they're concerned, I could be some wacko off the street making all this up.
[24:19.720 --> 24:23.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, let's figure out how can we, how can we prove that you're not a wacko off the street making this up?
[24:24.040 --> 24:25.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, you were taken to a building.
[24:26.040 --> 24:26.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[24:26.540 --> 24:28.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I imagine you were taken to a room inside that building.
[24:28.900 --> 24:29.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes.
[24:29.780 --> 24:32.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I imagine you hadn't been in that room before.
[24:32.860 --> 24:33.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[24:33.260 --> 24:33.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, I've not.
[24:33.620 --> 24:41.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so, um, so, the fact that you can tell people exactly how to get to that room, for one thing, would be good evidence, uh, how, you know, where things are.
[24:41.960 --> 24:43.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: You say you have certain names.
[24:44.420 --> 24:45.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[24:45.040 --> 24:48.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, we can, uh, we can do some checking to see if those people exist.
[24:49.240 --> 24:53.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, it, it, it really shouldn't be too hard to prove that, that, you know, this really happened.
[24:54.180 --> 24:54.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[24:54.760 --> 24:57.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Plus, there are the witnesses on the streets of Denver that saw you being arrested.
[24:57.860 --> 24:59.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if there's any way to reach those people.
[25:00.360 --> 25:05.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, in addition, uh, they have, I'm sure they have surveillance cameras inside the police station.
[25:05.800 --> 25:08.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good luck getting the, the records for that, but, you know.
[25:08.100 --> 25:08.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[25:08.720 --> 25:09.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: The records are out there.
[25:09.780 --> 25:11.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: The question is, are the records being destroyed?
[25:12.160 --> 25:15.260]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and can we get access to them to find out more about this?
[25:17.420 --> 25:18.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, I, I agree with that.
[25:19.000 --> 25:24.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, and the only, you know, like you, you mentioned the police surveillance cameras.
[25:24.480 --> 25:28.780]  [SPEAKER_16]: I, I can't think that I'm, I am important enough for them to go destroy evidence like that.
[25:28.880 --> 25:33.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: The only thing that I could think of is that, that they would have handed that over to the Secret Service along with everything else.
[25:35.120 --> 25:35.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[25:36.460 --> 25:38.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: How's your lawyer been in touch with the Secret Service?
[25:38.580 --> 25:40.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, he's making those calls tonight.
[25:40.620 --> 25:40.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[25:42.880 --> 25:55.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, well, I, I'd like to open this up to our listeners, uh, if they have any questions that they'd like to ask to, uh, to Mike McGinnis, uh, over in Denver, who just experienced what I consider to be a, a horrible type of a thing, but not something that's incredibly surprising.
[25:55.260 --> 26:08.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, if you've been listening to what's been going on over the past year or so, uh, it's, it's not surprising that this kind of a thing would start to happen when people are harassed simply for being on the street, taking pictures, acting like normal people,
[26:08.620 --> 26:13.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: and being accused of all kinds of, uh, of terrorist affiliations and things like that.
[26:14.100 --> 26:18.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so while, while I'm, um, I'm certainly shocked by what happened, I'm not surprised.
[26:18.800 --> 26:24.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's, um, it's, uh, something we have to wake up about and, and, and, and, you know, get people outraged.
[26:24.960 --> 26:26.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully people will get outraged about this.
[26:26.660 --> 26:36.280]  [SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I, you know, I'd be very upset if, if, if this was not on some, uh, front pages of newspapers around the country, uh, you know, in the next week or so, or talked about, uh, in, in, in various other places.
[26:36.280 --> 26:40.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: We, we certainly intend to follow up on just about everything possible we can follow up on.
[26:41.040 --> 26:46.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, let's, uh, turn it over first to people in the studio if there's any, uh, any comments here, and then, uh, then we'll take some phone calls.
[26:46.640 --> 26:49.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: 212-209-2900.
[26:50.060 --> 27:04.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, yes, uh, the, the, first of all, the police camp, cars usually have cameras, and also they took his fingerprints and his photographs, and they're not likely to destroy, uh, records of his fingerprints and his mugshots.
[27:04.960 --> 27:06.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but they could hide them.
[27:06.340 --> 27:10.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: How do, how do we check their records to make sure that these things really exist?
[27:10.360 --> 27:22.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: If the, if the cop car went to, uh, to the, to the station, there would be records of, and plus the video from the cop cars, the video surveillance camera, would be recording, and if they...
[27:22.100 --> 27:27.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: You see, that, that's all well and good if, you know, it's not in their possession to start with, but, but the police have possession of this.
[27:27.620 --> 27:28.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, but that's...
[27:28.120 --> 27:33.740]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like going to a criminal's house and saying, you have video of your, you committing a crime, please turn it over to us.
[27:33.740 --> 27:35.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: But if they delete it, they cannot account for it.
[27:36.600 --> 27:36.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, that'll be...
[27:36.980 --> 27:37.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or they could replace it.
[27:37.940 --> 27:38.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're good at this.
[27:38.700 --> 27:39.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true.
[27:39.040 --> 27:47.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't want to, I don't necessarily implicate, you know, the Denver Police Department by, by saying this, but, you know, if they were to commit a crime, I'm sure they would know what they were doing, as far as that goes.
[27:48.040 --> 27:57.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, as having, unfortunately, recent experience with mug shots and fingerprints, Mr. McGinnis knows about what time all this happened.
[27:57.380 --> 28:03.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, there would be a, a series of photographs of criminals, a series of fingerprints being taken.
[28:03.600 --> 28:10.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: All you do is, they're all public records, all you do is subpoena all of them and find him in the middle, ideally.
[28:10.380 --> 28:17.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: As you say, yes, the cops would be smart, they should, like, substitute one somewhere in there, but they may not be able to.
[28:17.620 --> 28:31.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: I have the same problem with that as I do with the whole idea of the Freedom of Information Act, which, you know, it's going to be dead soon anyway, but, while it existed, you're asking for, you know, confidential information supposedly from people, and the people that decide to give it to you are the people that are keeping it secret,
[28:31.580 --> 28:32.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: and you have to somehow trust them.
[28:33.520 --> 28:35.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, it's just very hard for me to do that.
[28:36.060 --> 28:39.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, uh, I apologize if I talk over a mic.
[28:39.920 --> 28:40.820]  [SPEAKER_13]: I can't hear him.
[28:40.980 --> 28:43.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: But, uh, what system would you prefer?
[28:45.400 --> 28:51.620]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, given that we can't rely on the police, how do you propose we get the records?
[28:54.720 --> 28:55.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure what you're asking.
[28:56.160 --> 29:04.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, you're complaining that the Freedom of Information Act relies on the, uh, the police to give you the records that they're allegedly hiding, but...
[29:04.940 --> 29:07.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, I wasn't referring to the Freedom of Information Act in regards to this case.
[29:07.680 --> 29:08.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm referring to that in general.
[29:08.640 --> 29:18.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: But as far as getting, getting the information, uh, you have a third-party that's not tied to that particular organization or that, that group that you're asking for the information from.
[29:18.260 --> 29:24.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: You have some kind of oversight committee, uh, or, or a group of people that aren't, you know, that group themselves.
[29:24.660 --> 29:28.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that way you know at least that, uh, it's not likely that there's a cover-up.
[29:28.780 --> 29:30.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: It still is possible, but it's just not as likely.
[29:30.800 --> 29:30.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[29:31.880 --> 29:33.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, uh, let's take some phone calls.
[29:33.900 --> 29:35.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: 212-209-2900.
[29:35.620 --> 29:37.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: We have a full, uh, phone bank here.
[29:37.320 --> 29:46.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we're talking to Mike McGinnis who, uh, went through hell yesterday in Denver, uh, thanks to the Denver Police and Secret Service for taking pictures of the hotel the vice president was staying in.
[29:46.600 --> 29:48.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, is he still there, by the way?
[29:48.920 --> 29:50.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, he was this morning, yes.
[29:50.400 --> 29:52.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I, this is what I think, okay?
[29:52.320 --> 30:07.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll probably get in trouble for saying this, but I really think from this point on, we should, uh, and, and not you, Mike, you know, you're in enough trouble as it is, but I'm just saying to, to, to our listeners in general, uh, we should make it our mission to tell everybody where the vice president is at all moments,
[30:08.000 --> 30:08.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: okay?
[30:08.280 --> 30:09.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Because this is ridiculous.
[30:09.760 --> 30:14.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: We can't, you know, have a country run on secrecy like this where people are kept, uh, hidden.
[30:14.540 --> 30:15.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Nobody cares, you know?
[30:15.960 --> 30:19.240]  [SPEAKER_00]: He's, he's, he's not, uh, you know, somebody that, uh, needs to be hidden.
[30:19.240 --> 30:23.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: And if he is somebody that needs to be hidden, then he's not a very effective leader in the first place.
[30:23.560 --> 30:30.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: And certainly not somebody that, uh, that should be leading a country like that supposedly is, uh, is open and free, supposedly.
[30:31.320 --> 30:34.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, so, uh, if you know where the vice president is, please let everybody know.
[30:34.720 --> 30:37.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, we'll, we'll take as many pictures as we want.
[30:37.220 --> 30:39.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, uh, they can't throw us all in prison for taking pictures.
[30:39.900 --> 30:40.680]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's unbelievable.
[30:41.240 --> 30:42.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, well, okay.
[30:42.160 --> 30:48.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: They might throw us all in prison, but boy, you know, uh, I guess we'll have the final say or something.
[30:49.160 --> 30:51.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Our, our, our relatives will have the final say.
[30:51.080 --> 30:51.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[30:51.540 --> 30:51.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody will.
[30:52.540 --> 30:52.760]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[30:52.860 --> 30:54.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: And Mike, if you have to go at any time, just say so.
[30:54.780 --> 30:56.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but we're going to take some phone calls now.
[30:56.460 --> 30:56.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[30:57.280 --> 30:58.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, here we go.
[30:58.520 --> 30:59.200]  [SPEAKER_00]: First phone call.
[30:59.280 --> 30:59.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening.
[30:59.680 --> 31:00.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're on the air.
[31:00.940 --> 31:01.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hello.
[31:01.280 --> 31:01.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that me?
[31:02.380 --> 31:02.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: How you doing?
[31:03.100 --> 31:03.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hi.
[31:03.360 --> 31:04.020]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thanks very much.
[31:04.020 --> 31:14.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm, uh, I, uh, I work for almost two decades, uh, as a, as a freelance, uh, technical journal, uh, support person, let's say.
[31:15.380 --> 31:17.820]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, you know, camera sound, that kind of thing.
[31:17.820 --> 31:21.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've shot all over the country in different cities and, and so forth.
[31:21.720 --> 31:28.520]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I got to tell you that the climate is getting worse in terms of just people in buildings, paranoia.
[31:28.900 --> 31:33.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: I've had people come up to us on the street and we're there with our full credentials and everything.
[31:33.260 --> 31:35.340]  [SPEAKER_15]: And they say, uh, what are you shooting?
[31:35.480 --> 31:35.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know?
[31:36.220 --> 31:40.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: And so we're shooting your building, you know, it's like on the street, put a, put a shroud over it.
[31:40.760 --> 31:41.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, it's getting ridiculous.
[31:42.520 --> 31:42.660]  Mm-hmm.
[31:42.660 --> 31:44.620]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you're on a public, so let me just ask this.
[31:44.680 --> 31:54.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Were there any of the media present at this, uh, hotel location with the satellite trucks and people doing stand-ups and that kind of thing at the same place that you were, maybe just in a different location at the same time?
[31:55.500 --> 31:55.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, no.
[31:55.960 --> 31:57.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was fairly early in the morning.
[31:57.680 --> 32:03.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, and I imagine there were probably some press that followed Chaney around inside the hotel, but there was nobody outside.
[32:03.380 --> 32:03.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[32:03.620 --> 32:08.880]  [SPEAKER_15]: So it wasn't like there was no sat form and people were set up for press avails with him or anything like that.
[32:08.880 --> 32:18.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: That he's like being spirited around the country like a little, uh, per, uh, I don't know what, uh, hidden thing, you know, just, uh, uh, like he just comes in and out without it.
[32:18.740 --> 32:27.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: And so you were just standing there, do you, are you a member of a news gathering organization of any kind, a professional group or even an indie media or anything like that?
[32:27.740 --> 32:28.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I'm not.
[32:28.340 --> 32:30.000]  [SPEAKER_15]: You don't have any press credentials or anything?
[32:30.160 --> 32:31.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, I'm an IT professional.
[32:31.240 --> 32:33.540]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just take pictures on the side mostly for fun.
[32:33.540 --> 32:35.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: And what kind of camera was it exactly?
[32:35.360 --> 32:35.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm just curious.
[32:35.700 --> 32:36.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was a Nikon F2.
[32:36.740 --> 32:37.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: It was nothing special.
[32:37.880 --> 32:38.160]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[32:38.880 --> 32:39.500]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just stills?
[32:39.700 --> 32:40.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just shooting stills?
[32:40.880 --> 32:41.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Not even video?
[32:41.440 --> 32:41.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Just shooting stills.
[32:43.660 --> 32:44.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: 35mm stills.
[32:44.560 --> 32:46.580]  [SPEAKER_15]: In other words, 35mm black and white stills.
[32:46.980 --> 32:47.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh-huh.
[32:47.600 --> 32:47.940]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[32:48.580 --> 32:52.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just, uh, and do you, do you have any distinguishing features?
[32:52.240 --> 32:58.700]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are you known as an activist in the area or any kind of, uh, would they be hunting you for any reason that you know of?
[32:58.700 --> 33:01.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: I mean, are you part of, like, any part of group or anything?
[33:01.520 --> 33:01.660]  [SPEAKER_15]: No.
[33:01.660 --> 33:10.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like, you know, we have a million groups in the city refuse and resist, and et cetera, et cetera, the international answer, and not in my name, and there's all these great groups out there.
[33:10.260 --> 33:14.200]  [SPEAKER_15]: You know, I'm just wondering how far they're trying to profile people, and they're always taking a picture.
[33:14.760 --> 33:16.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: How did you know that Cheney was there?
[33:16.360 --> 33:21.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did you know beforehand that he was there, or were you just, maybe you're recapping a little bit, but I just tuned in, so...
[33:21.420 --> 33:22.400]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, no.
[33:22.880 --> 33:24.360]  [SPEAKER_15]: Did you know he was there in advance?
[33:25.420 --> 33:31.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, it was on the, it had been on the morning news that he was in town, and, uh, you know, I got downtown.
[33:31.460 --> 33:39.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: I only live a few miles from downtown, and when I got down there, you know, there are barricades everywhere, and police, and obviously the rangers, it's a pretty good indication that that that was where he was.
[33:40.000 --> 33:40.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Right, right.
[33:40.580 --> 33:45.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, also, you know, the Adam's Mark Hotel is one of the two places in Denver that the politicians...
[33:45.220 --> 33:47.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: I know it, I stayed there, it's a lovely hotel.
[33:47.420 --> 33:48.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, it's a great hotel.
[33:48.660 --> 33:49.420]  [SPEAKER_15]: Beautiful hotel.
[33:50.100 --> 33:56.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Um, so, yes, so that's wild, and there were no satellite trucks and nothing, and you're taking a simple picture from across the street.
[33:57.220 --> 33:57.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[33:57.640 --> 34:07.460]  [SPEAKER_15]: A public citizen on a public street taking a photograph of a hotel where the Vice President of the United States is obviously staying, and for that you were arrested?
[34:08.000 --> 34:09.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, that's essentially it in a nutshell.
[34:09.560 --> 34:10.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: Holy God.
[34:11.120 --> 34:17.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Not only arrested, but, uh, threatened with being charged as a terrorist and, uh, all kinds of intimidation tactics by the Secret Service.
[34:17.460 --> 34:17.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: Unbelievable.
[34:17.890 --> 34:19.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Emmanuel, this is beyond belief.
[34:19.950 --> 34:21.220]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, now, you're in the media, right?
[34:21.350 --> 34:21.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[34:21.620 --> 34:22.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Get this story out there.
[34:22.560 --> 34:23.850]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna, uh, we're gonna have it up on the...
[34:23.850 --> 34:31.600]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'm gonna call NBC and talk to a couple of the people I know, and I have your information at 2600, so I'll be able to contact you that way.
[34:31.850 --> 34:31.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you can...
[34:31.870 --> 34:34.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: If there's any interest, I'll be able to, I'll be able to tell...
[34:34.720 --> 34:37.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: I, I don't know how to even approach it.
[34:37.410 --> 34:41.890]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd call the voice of somebody like that, or I'd call, like, uh, Krugman at the Times, you know?
[34:42.280 --> 34:43.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: Paul Krugman.
[34:43.620 --> 34:49.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Uh, I would contact him, or I would contact the other, uh, columnist up there, the woman, what's her name, Anna Quinlan?
[34:50.260 --> 34:50.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[34:50.620 --> 34:51.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: Somebody like that.
[34:51.520 --> 34:57.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the important thing, I think this is something our listeners can help with, is to just get word of this story out to as many media people as you know.
[34:57.180 --> 34:58.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is outrageous.
[34:58.240 --> 35:04.720]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, because this won't, will not be the last case, and it will not be the worst case if, uh, if people don't, uh, object to this.
[35:04.890 --> 35:05.640]  [SPEAKER_15]: There's paranoia out there, Emmanuel.
[35:05.850 --> 35:19.240]  [SPEAKER_15]: People tell us, well, on a public street, you weren't standing under a kiosk, you weren't standing where the line of a building's property rights is demarked by a special brick, so something you can usually tell, like some buildings end with a special row of bricks,
[35:19.240 --> 35:21.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: and then beyond that, you're on the public street again.
[35:21.560 --> 35:26.390]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you're under a marquee at a theater, you know, there's issues with unions, they control that space.
[35:26.390 --> 35:37.960]  [SPEAKER_15]: But if you're on a public street, taking a picture of a building that lives on that street, that's, that's a complete violation of, of, of the constitutional right of First Amendment.
[35:38.120 --> 35:43.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and even, even if you were under a marquee or, and, you know, on a private part, they would tell you to stop and move on.
[35:43.310 --> 35:45.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they wouldn't just arrest you and confiscate your camera.
[35:46.000 --> 35:46.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly, exactly.
[35:46.430 --> 35:49.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is, this is like, you know, the worst part of the Soviet Union days.
[35:49.770 --> 35:50.980]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is unbelievable, Emmanuel.
[35:51.270 --> 35:53.330]  [SPEAKER_15]: And I thank you for, uh, bringing this to our attention.
[35:53.430 --> 35:54.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, let's take some more calls.
[35:54.600 --> 35:55.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for calling.
[35:55.270 --> 35:56.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, thank you.
[35:56.140 --> 35:57.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Some very good questions there.
[35:57.480 --> 36:02.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, um, he, he asked some very good questions as far as, uh, is there any reason for them to have targeted you?
[36:02.370 --> 36:06.830]  [SPEAKER_00]: You said you had no, I mean, not that this really should make any difference, but you have to get inside their minds.
[36:07.250 --> 36:09.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Were you ever a part of any kind of thing like this?
[36:09.520 --> 36:23.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: As far as, uh, you know, uh, no demonstrations or no, the only, the only police record that I have is I was, uh, uh, I've got, I got a couple of warnings and I had a ticket once for trespassing because I was climbing around in a, in an abandoned warehouse.
[36:23.620 --> 36:25.310]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, and, uh...
[36:25.310 --> 36:26.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you must be a terrorist then.
[36:27.480 --> 36:27.810]  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[36:28.040 --> 36:29.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Abandoned warehouses, huh?
[36:29.290 --> 36:30.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, exactly.
[36:30.500 --> 36:30.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Whew.
[36:31.190 --> 36:31.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[36:31.710 --> 36:33.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is, uh, heavy hitters here.
[36:33.800 --> 36:34.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay.
[36:34.830 --> 36:36.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, uh, let's take some more phone calls.
[36:36.370 --> 36:38.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: 212-209-2900.
[36:38.310 --> 36:41.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: By the way, Mike, how much would you say your camera was valued at?
[36:41.850 --> 36:43.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, it's, it's not much.
[36:43.230 --> 36:43.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Two or three hundred dollars.
[36:44.310 --> 36:44.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[36:44.580 --> 36:45.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that, that is something.
[36:45.690 --> 36:47.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot to, to quite a few people and it's not...
[36:47.870 --> 36:48.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[36:48.390 --> 36:49.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: People should not...
[36:49.060 --> 36:52.890]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if they, if it had been stolen from you, you probably would have reported it to the police, right?
[36:52.890 --> 36:53.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, absolutely.
[36:53.790 --> 36:57.950]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it's not like losing, you know, a $10,000 brand new Nikon or something like that.
[36:58.160 --> 36:58.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[36:58.890 --> 37:00.350]  [SPEAKER_00]: But it could have been, you know?
[37:00.460 --> 37:00.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: It could have.
[37:01.060 --> 37:02.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't make any distinction.
[37:02.660 --> 37:03.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't know anything about cameras.
[37:03.890 --> 37:04.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
[37:04.100 --> 37:05.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: How many pictures did you have on it?
[37:05.830 --> 37:15.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, I had a 36, 36, uh, frame roll and I probably had most of the pictures of, uh, were of the, the hotel.
[37:15.620 --> 37:15.890]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[37:16.000 --> 37:17.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that was the only roll you had?
[37:17.600 --> 37:19.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, I had several other rolls in my bag.
[37:20.210 --> 37:21.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: And did they take those?
[37:21.830 --> 37:23.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, they took the whole, the whole bag.
[37:23.830 --> 37:24.450]  [SPEAKER_16]: They took everything.
[37:24.620 --> 37:24.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[37:24.810 --> 37:25.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: So what else did they take?
[37:25.640 --> 37:27.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: They took your bag with, with everything in it?
[37:27.660 --> 37:28.020]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[37:28.370 --> 37:29.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: So what else did you lose?
[37:29.850 --> 37:33.350]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, well, just a couple of, uh, rolls of, uh, film that I hadn't shot yet.
[37:33.350 --> 37:37.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: A couple of rolls of film that I had shot up here in the mountains this past weekend.
[37:37.620 --> 37:39.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: And the one roll that I had been taking downtown.
[37:40.330 --> 37:43.640]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, and then the, the lens that was attached to the camera as well.
[37:43.750 --> 37:45.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that's probably worth more than the camera.
[37:45.930 --> 37:46.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[37:46.980 --> 37:49.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: And was there anything, uh, else in the bag?
[37:49.230 --> 37:50.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: Like any kind of personal effects?
[37:51.000 --> 37:51.330]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, no.
[37:51.560 --> 37:51.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[37:52.410 --> 37:52.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[37:52.730 --> 37:53.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's take some more phone calls.
[37:53.520 --> 37:54.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: 212-209-2900.
[37:55.850 --> 37:56.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: And good evening.
[37:56.790 --> 37:57.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're on the air.
[37:58.370 --> 37:58.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hello?
[37:58.870 --> 37:59.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, go ahead.
[37:59.870 --> 38:00.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hi.
[38:00.290 --> 38:00.850]  [SPEAKER_17]: How are you today?
[38:01.120 --> 38:02.870]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, kind of, kind of shaken up.
[38:03.020 --> 38:04.370]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, what's your question?
[38:04.730 --> 38:05.830]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, I'm going to help you out.
[38:05.830 --> 38:11.290]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think that we have to, somewhat, the understanding of the State of the Union.
[38:11.830 --> 38:14.890]  [SPEAKER_17]: And this isn't the Clinton administration Secret Service anymore.
[38:15.460 --> 38:17.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: We have a different administration.
[38:17.960 --> 38:22.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: And we kind of have to, when you have a new DJ, you change the beat.
[38:22.790 --> 38:24.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, when they change a song, there's a different beat.
[38:25.190 --> 38:29.190]  [SPEAKER_17]: You have to play around to that beat until we can get a new administration in.
[38:30.100 --> 38:31.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: Um, what was done...
[38:31.160 --> 38:32.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: What beat are they playing by right now?
[38:32.790 --> 38:45.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, it's one that I don't necessarily agree with, but it's, um, it's not an American, um, uh, it's not one that is constitutionally correct.
[38:46.040 --> 38:46.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: Mm-hmm.
[38:46.370 --> 38:48.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I don't agree with what they did.
[38:49.230 --> 38:54.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: However, if someone came up to me and said, give me your watch, here's my watch.
[38:54.500 --> 38:56.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: If they wanted the camera, I know it's not right.
[38:56.950 --> 39:04.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: But sometimes we have to submit and, and unfortunately give in to some of our own little, uh...
[39:04.780 --> 39:05.950]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, hang on here a second.
[39:06.330 --> 39:07.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, Mike, Mike did not resist.
[39:07.980 --> 39:10.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: He, he, he, he did everything they told him to.
[39:10.190 --> 39:11.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: He gave up his camera.
[39:11.290 --> 39:11.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
[39:11.810 --> 39:12.850]  [SPEAKER_17]: He refused to give him the camera.
[39:12.850 --> 39:14.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he refused to give up his camera there on the spot.
[39:14.620 --> 39:15.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[39:15.310 --> 39:15.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but...
[39:15.580 --> 39:16.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: I would have given them the camera.
[39:17.100 --> 39:18.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: But he did not resist arrest.
[39:18.410 --> 39:20.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: He did not, uh, you know, cause any kind of...
[39:20.230 --> 39:21.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, but he refused to give them the camera.
[39:21.370 --> 39:21.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: Just give it to him.
[39:27.100 --> 39:28.710]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, but if you...
[39:28.710 --> 39:29.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay, let's...
[39:29.390 --> 39:30.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: But, what was done?
[39:30.370 --> 39:32.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right, let's figure out how to rectify this.
[39:32.310 --> 39:32.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Mm-hmm.
[39:32.460 --> 39:35.350]  [SPEAKER_17]: First of all, who's the senior, uh, Senator of Denver?
[39:36.850 --> 39:37.910]  [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I don't know.
[39:38.080 --> 39:38.310]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'll send...
[39:38.310 --> 39:39.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, Colorado, let's say.
[39:40.250 --> 39:40.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: Is it...
[39:40.580 --> 39:42.450]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, Colorado, cause Denver has not yet...
[39:42.450 --> 39:43.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right, Denver, Colorado, all right.
[39:44.380 --> 39:47.210]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm showing my ignorance and my intelligence at the same time.
[39:47.310 --> 39:48.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I, I should know this, but I don't.
[39:48.960 --> 39:49.710]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't either.
[39:49.950 --> 39:50.290]  [SPEAKER_17]: We need...
[39:50.290 --> 39:51.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's who's office.
[39:51.390 --> 39:52.410]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's who's spokesperson.
[39:52.660 --> 39:54.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's who the attorney should be in contact with.
[39:54.580 --> 40:00.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, and from there, the Senator should be in contact with the, um, the majority leader of the Senate.
[40:00.850 --> 40:06.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: And it needs to go forth that the Secret Service may have acted, um, unconstitutionally.
[40:07.190 --> 40:08.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's one means of rectifying it.
[40:08.950 --> 40:15.890]  [SPEAKER_17]: As well as, um, as with regard to the evidence, if he was fingerprinted, then he's in the system for the entire state.
[40:15.890 --> 40:20.710]  [SPEAKER_17]: He would have some other law enforcement agent somewhere else in the state run his fingerprints.
[40:21.060 --> 40:33.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: He has to go in, find a friend of this cause, fingerprint him again and put him in the computer, and it would match up and tell about the arrest date and his fingerprints from that other date and location.
[40:33.040 --> 40:33.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[40:33.870 --> 40:46.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: But, uh, the, the point is, um, if you just submit from the start and do whatever they tell you, they'll, they'll ask for increasingly intrusive types of things to do.
[40:46.330 --> 40:46.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know?
[40:46.930 --> 40:47.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: You have the right.
[40:48.140 --> 40:51.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you not agree that you have the right to take a picture of a public building on a public street?
[40:52.620 --> 40:56.290]  [SPEAKER_17]: It really just depends on the individual.
[40:56.460 --> 40:56.750]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yes.
[40:57.000 --> 40:57.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: It shouldn't depend.
[40:57.750 --> 40:58.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: It should be a yes or no.
[40:58.910 --> 40:59.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you or don't you?
[40:59.850 --> 41:01.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: We do have the right.
[41:01.290 --> 41:13.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: However, we also have the right to walk in the middle of the night at three in the morning on 42nd Street or 8th Avenue or 11th Avenue or downtown DC, the murder capital of the world or anywhere else.
[41:13.690 --> 41:14.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: But would we do it?
[41:15.000 --> 41:15.450]  [SPEAKER_17]: No.
[41:15.600 --> 41:16.890]  [SPEAKER_17]: Because out of common sense...
[41:16.890 --> 41:17.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, speak for yourself.
[41:17.560 --> 41:19.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's two different things.
[41:19.160 --> 41:29.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: I have walked in dangerous neighborhoods in the middle of the night and, you know, if somebody told me, you know, don't walk down here, they're either somebody who's threatening me or somebody who's trying to warn me, but I still have the right to do it.
[41:29.640 --> 41:30.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: And besides...
[41:30.410 --> 41:31.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: The right is there, yes.
[41:32.020 --> 41:36.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: You should not have to worry about being accosted by the police.
[41:37.580 --> 41:38.370]  [SPEAKER_17]: I agree.
[41:38.580 --> 41:40.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: In a dangerous neighborhood, it's normally...
[41:40.580 --> 41:44.100]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'll share, I'll share a quick story with you that happened in 93.
[41:44.480 --> 41:45.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, make it quick because we want to take some more calls.
[41:45.960 --> 41:46.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[41:46.350 --> 41:46.810]  [SPEAKER_17]: Real quick.
[41:47.700 --> 41:53.210]  [SPEAKER_17]: 93, recent grad from college, moved to the Upper East Side, which my parents thought was the safest place in the world.
[41:53.560 --> 41:54.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: I was walking...
[41:54.770 --> 42:06.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: I was walking back from Blockbuster, crossing over 86th and 3rd, and there was this blue cougar that went through the light and almost hit me and I had to hit the hood.
[42:06.950 --> 42:13.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: And the guy jumps out and puts a 9mm in my face and tells me to start running.
[42:13.250 --> 42:14.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I could smell his alcohol.
[42:14.460 --> 42:14.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: He's drunk.
[42:14.930 --> 42:16.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: I knew he was a police officer.
[42:16.500 --> 42:19.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: I have a lot of law enforcement agents in the family, friends.
[42:19.350 --> 42:21.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, how did you know he was a police officer from the smell of the alcohol?
[42:21.600 --> 42:22.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: By his mannerism...
[42:22.500 --> 42:22.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, by his...
[42:23.830 --> 42:25.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, I couldn't resist that.
[42:25.540 --> 42:26.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: That was a good one.
[42:26.790 --> 42:31.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, by his mannerism, by the 9, by, you know, obviously his temperament.
[42:31.560 --> 42:32.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: He was obviously drunk.
[42:32.710 --> 42:34.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: And he had a 9mm pointing at me.
[42:34.580 --> 42:37.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: I guess that's all the ingredients right there that adds up to law enforcement.
[42:37.750 --> 42:39.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: I wasn't going to aggravate him.
[42:39.160 --> 42:39.350]  [SPEAKER_17]: No.
[42:39.430 --> 42:40.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: I submitted.
[42:40.430 --> 42:41.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: I took down his...
[42:41.460 --> 42:42.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: I didn't...
[42:42.270 --> 42:43.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: I stared him down.
[42:43.250 --> 42:45.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: He holstered it and drove off.
[42:45.230 --> 42:46.750]  [SPEAKER_17]: I got his license plate number.
[42:46.960 --> 42:48.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: I called the 19th precinct.
[42:48.980 --> 42:49.690]  [SPEAKER_17]: They went out.
[42:49.960 --> 42:51.060]  [SPEAKER_17]: They came.
[42:51.230 --> 42:51.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: They responded.
[42:51.980 --> 42:52.750]  [SPEAKER_17]: They ran the plate.
[42:52.960 --> 42:53.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: They knew it was one of theirs.
[42:54.040 --> 42:58.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: They said, you know, we're going to look around for the, you know, person.
[42:58.270 --> 43:00.810]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then we're going to try to contact the commanding officer.
[43:01.620 --> 43:04.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I said, why can't you go out to where he lives right now?
[43:04.890 --> 43:06.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: He's still intoxicated.
[43:06.080 --> 43:07.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they wouldn't do it.
[43:07.810 --> 43:09.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I had to do the whole...
[43:09.080 --> 43:09.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: What is it?
[43:09.790 --> 43:10.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: The...
[43:10.770 --> 43:14.750]  [SPEAKER_17]: Christ, when you report something about the police abuse...
[43:15.430 --> 43:16.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Civilian complaint.
[43:16.500 --> 43:16.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[43:17.040 --> 43:17.290]  [SPEAKER_17]: Right.
[43:17.410 --> 43:18.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: The civilian complaint thing.
[43:19.520 --> 43:22.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: And said and done, he lost 10 vacation days.
[43:23.230 --> 43:24.370]  [SPEAKER_17]: I could have lost my life.
[43:24.480 --> 43:25.890]  [SPEAKER_17]: He lost 10 vacation days.
[43:26.730 --> 43:26.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[43:27.250 --> 43:29.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's good that you told people about it.
[43:29.270 --> 43:30.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's...
[43:30.040 --> 43:31.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's important.
[43:31.350 --> 43:35.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, what I think is important is that sometimes...
[43:35.480 --> 43:36.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, you have to know.
[43:36.810 --> 43:38.930]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, when to give in, somewhat.
[43:39.060 --> 43:44.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you have a gun pointed at your face, generally, it's not a good idea to debate the issue, whatever the issue might be at the time.
[43:44.500 --> 43:44.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: Exactly.
[43:45.080 --> 43:45.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[43:45.290 --> 43:46.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think that's what was happening here.
[43:46.820 --> 43:55.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think we had a case where somebody was being told to do something that was clearly unreasonable and, you know, against everything that we supposedly stand for.
[43:55.190 --> 43:58.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: And he rightly acted and said, I'm not going to do that.
[43:58.880 --> 44:04.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: And he paid the price, which was being arrested, but apparently not being arrested if you ask the cops because they say it never happened.
[44:05.600 --> 44:12.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: So now we have an interesting story where we have to get to the bottom of this and see who's lying here and find out why they're lying.
[44:12.980 --> 44:19.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I think you're absolutely correct, get it out there nationally, as well as get the senior citizen, senator involved.
[44:19.900 --> 44:20.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Senior citizens, too.
[44:20.730 --> 44:21.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: They're welcome, as well.
[44:21.460 --> 44:22.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, well, the senior senator.
[44:23.000 --> 44:23.290]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[44:23.460 --> 44:25.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to move on to another call.
[44:25.640 --> 44:26.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks very much for calling, though.
[44:26.860 --> 44:27.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're welcome.
[44:27.460 --> 44:27.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
[44:27.750 --> 44:28.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: How about the senior senator?
[44:28.880 --> 44:30.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: He is a senior citizen, but never mind.
[44:30.440 --> 44:34.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I think the senior citizen is Ben Nighthorse Campbell, but I may be wrong.
[44:34.420 --> 44:40.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm sorry that you just hung up on that caller, because I want to cut to the chase on his discussion.
[44:41.900 --> 44:50.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: When they take us to the concentration camps, I will back that caller when he wants to join the group clearing out the crematoriums.
[44:51.540 --> 44:55.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, really, the acquiescence on his part is shocking.
[44:56.100 --> 44:59.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm a Republican, and I'm upset that I'm even saying this sort of thing.
[44:59.840 --> 45:01.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a Democrat-Republican thing, though.
[45:01.710 --> 45:03.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the most liberal thing I've ever said in my life.
[45:03.300 --> 45:03.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean...
[45:03.710 --> 45:04.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're not talking about liberal...
[45:05.230 --> 45:05.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, fine.
[45:05.580 --> 45:07.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: He turns my stomach, okay?
[45:07.320 --> 45:08.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's get to that point.
[45:08.080 --> 45:10.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is what I meant before when I said everybody hates Ashcroft.
[45:10.460 --> 45:12.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, you know, a left-right thing.
[45:12.500 --> 45:13.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, exactly.
[45:13.440 --> 45:14.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's against freedom.
[45:14.860 --> 45:16.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's against, you know, a free society.
[45:16.790 --> 45:16.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[45:17.040 --> 45:18.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: Everybody can recognize that.
[45:18.320 --> 45:20.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: We have to resist now, because later on, we won't be able to.
[45:20.800 --> 45:20.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[45:21.080 --> 45:26.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: And the last thing we should be doing is splitting it to factions and saying, well, you supported this particular struggle, and you didn't.
[45:26.420 --> 45:26.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well...
[45:26.750 --> 45:27.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, you're more worthy.
[45:27.900 --> 45:28.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's like...
[45:28.120 --> 45:31.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Some people are acquiescing from the start, and that boils me up.
[45:31.880 --> 45:34.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's absolutely something that I would take issue with.
[45:34.800 --> 45:48.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, Mike, I gotta, you know, commend you for your strength here, for actually standing up, and, you know, it must have been a really intimidating experience, and I imagine most people probably would have done what the last caller suggested and just given up the camera.
[45:49.040 --> 45:49.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, thank you.
[45:49.900 --> 45:56.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: It was rather scary, but we still, as far as I know, we still have a few rights left in this country, and...
[45:57.380 --> 45:57.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: A few.
[45:58.480 --> 45:58.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[45:58.960 --> 45:59.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: A few.
[45:59.440 --> 46:00.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's take another phone call.
[46:00.980 --> 46:01.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening.
[46:01.520 --> 46:01.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're on the air.
[46:03.040 --> 46:03.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hello.
[46:03.660 --> 46:04.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, go ahead.
[46:04.360 --> 46:04.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi.
[46:05.760 --> 46:10.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: I really, I want to agree with you and commend your caller for doing the right thing.
[46:12.060 --> 46:19.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: The whole question of the terminology raghead, and I want to focus on that, that makes this a biased crime.
[46:19.480 --> 46:20.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: We all know what that means.
[46:20.820 --> 46:31.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Everybody listening to this broadcast knows what that, whoever that was, agent, special services, CIA, whatever, meant when he referred to that term.
[46:31.940 --> 46:33.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is a biased crime.
[46:33.250 --> 46:34.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: This raises the stakes a little bit.
[46:35.080 --> 46:36.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is outrageous.
[46:36.360 --> 46:38.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the exact word was raghead collaborator, I believe.
[46:38.940 --> 46:39.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: Raghead collaborator, whatever.
[46:39.690 --> 46:42.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, that's what we're talking about here.
[46:42.160 --> 46:43.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is a biased crime.
[46:43.340 --> 46:47.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, is it a biased crime if it's not directed at the person himself?
[46:47.840 --> 46:49.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a racist term.
[46:49.300 --> 47:01.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, it is a racist term, and it means that he has targeted somebody, it's racial profiling, and he has targeted somebody as a member of an ethnic group.
[47:01.840 --> 47:05.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, were you arrested because you're a member of an ethnic group?
[47:05.210 --> 47:06.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe that was part of this.
[47:07.060 --> 47:07.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
[47:07.080 --> 47:15.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, I think if he was of a particular ethnic group and that was why they arrested him, yes, I would agree with you there.
[47:15.560 --> 47:20.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: But I think what we're seeing here is just some ignorant officer making racist remarks to somebody.
[47:21.120 --> 47:22.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: That makes it a biased crime.
[47:22.300 --> 47:28.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: The fact that he believed that he was dealing with someone from a particular ethnic group, whether that person was or was not, is not the issue.
[47:28.880 --> 47:30.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: What he believed is the point.
[47:30.480 --> 47:34.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but they were not saying he was one of those, one of the members of that ethnic group.
[47:34.210 --> 47:37.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: They were referring to that ethnic group in general.
[47:37.290 --> 47:37.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wait a minute, wait a minute.
[47:37.860 --> 47:38.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: What did they say to him exactly?
[47:39.100 --> 47:39.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: You are.
[47:39.840 --> 47:41.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: They called him a rag head collaborator.
[47:41.340 --> 47:50.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: In other words, he collaborates with, I can't believe I'm using these words in the air, but that's what the police officers were trying to convey, that he collaborates with rag heads.
[47:50.230 --> 47:51.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Isn't that a biased crime?
[47:51.780 --> 47:53.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Against a foreign nationality.
[47:53.380 --> 47:58.560]  [SPEAKER_12]: When you call somebody associating with a certain ethnic group, isn't it the same as calling them a member of that group?
[47:58.560 --> 47:59.730]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think so.
[47:59.940 --> 48:00.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: No.
[48:00.210 --> 48:09.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think if somebody, you know, refers to you as an ethnic group that you are not, I don't think you can say that you're that ethnic group being biased.
[48:10.080 --> 48:10.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[48:10.620 --> 48:11.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Either way, it's reprehensible.
[48:12.320 --> 48:12.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: I have a feeling it is.
[48:12.840 --> 48:34.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just have a feeling, I'd like to hear, you know, a really serious legal opinion from Civil Liberties Union on this, but my feeling is that this is what we're dealing with, is not only, you know, biased and prejudiced and ignorant CIA people, but really biased in terms of the way in which they're profiling people,
[48:34.320 --> 48:35.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: this is racial profiling.
[48:35.960 --> 48:41.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Anybody who associates with people of a certain ethnic group are you-know-what lovers.
[48:42.290 --> 48:43.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is what we're coming down to.
[48:44.230 --> 48:45.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is what we're dealing with.
[48:45.750 --> 48:47.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: To me, it's all the same.
[48:47.640 --> 48:53.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't see a differentiation between calling somebody member of a group and calling somebody a collaborator with that group.
[48:54.980 --> 48:57.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, you know, your lawyer may have a different interpretation.
[48:57.660 --> 48:57.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[48:58.020 --> 48:59.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll have to see what...
[48:59.140 --> 48:59.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's for me about the whole issue.
[48:59.940 --> 49:00.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll have to see what they say about that.
[49:01.040 --> 49:01.750]  [SPEAKER_00]: But thanks for raising it.
[49:01.860 --> 49:02.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, keep it up.
[49:02.860 --> 49:03.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[49:03.270 --> 49:03.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good luck.
[49:03.900 --> 49:04.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thanks.
[49:05.270 --> 49:06.190]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's take another phone call.
[49:06.840 --> 49:07.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: And good evening.
[49:07.560 --> 49:07.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're on the air.
[49:08.600 --> 49:08.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.
[49:08.880 --> 49:09.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: How are you?
[49:09.580 --> 49:10.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're okay.
[49:10.540 --> 49:11.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're surviving.
[49:11.020 --> 49:21.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: I think you guys are kind of naive about this whole thing, because under the USA Patriot Act and the Homeland Security Act, they've changed the threshold for search and seizure.
[49:23.800 --> 49:27.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: They've changed the definition of a terrorist, anybody who commits crimes against the United States.
[49:28.860 --> 49:30.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: How do either of those apply here?
[49:30.540 --> 49:38.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, the search and seizure law, they don't need a court order to search or seize your property anymore.
[49:38.620 --> 49:42.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, just the suspicion of being a terrorist, they can seize your property.
[49:43.160 --> 49:48.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: So they can basically pick somebody off the street and take their equipment and throw them in jail.
[49:48.300 --> 49:48.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[49:48.750 --> 49:53.340]  [SPEAKER_02]: They can go to your house, bug your house, search your house without notifying you or getting a court order.
[49:54.080 --> 49:57.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't they generally have to charge you with something at some point?
[49:57.640 --> 49:58.290]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[49:58.440 --> 50:03.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: The Patriot Act and the Homeland Security Agency bill changed all that stuff.
[50:03.300 --> 50:05.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they don't even need a warrant to search your property anymore.
[50:06.060 --> 50:08.360]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, how about the denying that they ever did it part?
[50:08.800 --> 50:09.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that in there too?
[50:09.500 --> 50:12.600]  [SPEAKER_02]: That can be construed as a national security issue.
[50:13.690 --> 50:14.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: Denying that they...
[50:14.460 --> 50:14.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[50:15.380 --> 50:21.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, those two bills basically changed a lot of things.
[50:21.660 --> 50:23.100]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I agree with you as far as that goes.
[50:23.750 --> 50:33.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, basically, if we take all of that and accept it, then what hope is there for any of us to ever, you know, escape this kind of a thing?
[50:33.500 --> 50:35.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we have to get those bills changed.
[50:35.690 --> 50:37.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's law at this point.
[50:37.620 --> 50:39.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's always too late.
[50:39.320 --> 50:41.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's law at this point, you know.
[50:41.360 --> 50:42.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we have to get those bills changed.
[50:42.920 --> 50:43.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: And in terms of even...
[50:43.640 --> 50:46.730]  [SPEAKER_02]: You guys were laughing about this concentration camp.
[50:46.840 --> 50:57.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: I was reading a couple of articles about Bush wanting to set up detention camps for American citizens that are declared enemy combatants, which means, you know, they can be held...
[50:57.750 --> 51:05.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Basically, what it really is, it's a presidential order saying this person is to be held indefinitely until the president decides he can be released.
[51:05.790 --> 51:07.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's another interesting story.
[51:07.480 --> 51:24.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: This is actually on CBS, cbsnews.com, entitled The CIA's License to Kill, which basically is saying that the CIA now has the right, under law secretly signed by President Bush, they have the right to kill Americans without any kind of due process.
[51:24.440 --> 51:24.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: They already have.
[51:24.860 --> 51:24.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: They already have.
[51:24.900 --> 51:25.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
[51:25.520 --> 51:27.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: In Yemen, they did that.
[51:27.300 --> 51:27.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[51:27.580 --> 51:34.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: But they apparently, you know, are going to do it more, where they can just kill Americans because they're suspected of being part of a terrorist group.
[51:34.600 --> 51:36.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, look at this case.
[51:37.420 --> 51:44.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: This guy from Denver was suspected by one idiot of being part of some kind of terrorist group because he took a picture.
[51:44.620 --> 51:47.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, does that mean that the CIA has a right to fire a missile at him?
[51:47.520 --> 51:47.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[51:48.820 --> 51:50.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Is this the world we're living in now?
[51:50.800 --> 51:51.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's the way things are now.
[51:52.190 --> 52:00.420]  [SPEAKER_02]: But it scares me the most is this whole presidential thing with the enemy combatant, where the president can just say, you're an enemy combatant, and you can be disappeared.
[52:00.620 --> 52:02.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you could be locked up, and you just disappear.
[52:02.690 --> 52:04.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: They don't have to notify anybody or anything.
[52:04.140 --> 52:04.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[52:04.400 --> 52:06.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's already happened to that guy Padilla, right?
[52:06.730 --> 52:07.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, there's another guy, too.
[52:07.860 --> 52:08.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: And both of us.
[52:08.750 --> 52:10.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they have no... nothing.
[52:10.790 --> 52:11.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: You have nothing.
[52:11.540 --> 52:15.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're held indefinitely until the president decides he wants to let you go.
[52:16.380 --> 52:21.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: And they have no access to lawyers, and we don't know anything about what's happening to them.
[52:21.620 --> 52:24.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're thrown in a hole, and they can do whatever they want to do to you.
[52:24.960 --> 52:25.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[52:25.270 --> 52:28.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, terrorists have been tried in public.
[52:28.660 --> 52:32.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, McNichols has... or McVeigh, rather, was tried.
[52:34.500 --> 52:37.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: The Pan Am bombers were tried in public.
[52:37.920 --> 52:38.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[52:38.060 --> 52:38.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, even...
[52:38.980 --> 52:39.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: And convicted.
[52:39.920 --> 52:44.750]  [SPEAKER_02]: The guy in the 20th terrorist, he's being tried.
[52:44.750 --> 52:45.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[52:45.690 --> 52:46.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, so...
[52:46.660 --> 52:51.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, basically, when you don't do this, you're saying the system doesn't work, and you have to change the system.
[52:51.420 --> 52:53.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I think a lot of people are having trouble with.
[52:54.060 --> 52:54.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[52:54.440 --> 52:57.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think a lot of people don't realize that the law has changed already.
[52:57.960 --> 53:01.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of people think everything's just the way it used to be, and it's not.
[53:01.400 --> 53:01.660]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[53:01.770 --> 53:04.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, people are, you know...
[53:04.250 --> 53:05.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, well, you guys...
[53:05.080 --> 53:06.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's changed.
[53:06.300 --> 53:06.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's different now.
[53:07.080 --> 53:07.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they...
[53:07.790 --> 53:09.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: We've lost a lot of rights, you know.
[53:09.770 --> 53:10.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: And then that whole...
[53:10.540 --> 53:13.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: That information awareness thing, you guys heard about that?
[53:13.700 --> 53:14.020]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[53:14.060 --> 53:15.460]  [SPEAKER_00]: Total information awareness.
[53:15.790 --> 53:15.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[53:16.080 --> 53:16.690]  [SPEAKER_02]: And the Pentagon.
[53:16.980 --> 53:18.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's gonna even be worse.
[53:18.140 --> 53:22.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Because I hear they're talking about adding voice, voice, speech recognition to that.
[53:22.580 --> 53:22.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[53:22.900 --> 53:23.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: Listening on telephone calls.
[53:24.000 --> 53:24.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[53:24.210 --> 53:25.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the thing is, all these things are realistic.
[53:25.940 --> 53:30.600]  [SPEAKER_00]: All these things are happening, and we can either lie back and accept them, or we can fight them.
[53:30.690 --> 53:32.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's part of what we're doing here is fighting it.
[53:33.660 --> 53:33.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[53:34.120 --> 53:34.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[53:34.580 --> 53:34.900]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[53:35.230 --> 53:36.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: So, let's continue to fight it.
[53:36.500 --> 53:41.210]  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, what you say is true, and all this, they can point to a piece of paper and say, yeah, we have the right to do this.
[53:41.210 --> 53:42.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't make it right.
[53:42.520 --> 53:42.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[53:43.060 --> 53:43.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[53:43.690 --> 53:43.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[53:44.140 --> 53:50.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know it should be publicly exposed, and so people know what exactly is going on here.
[53:50.880 --> 53:51.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[53:52.140 --> 53:53.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's more than that.
[53:53.040 --> 53:54.640]  [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's frightening.
[53:55.120 --> 53:55.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's frightening.
[53:55.520 --> 53:55.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: It's frightening.
[53:55.660 --> 53:56.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for the call.
[53:56.160 --> 53:56.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: We gotta move on.
[53:57.060 --> 53:57.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're running out of time.
[53:57.730 --> 53:58.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead, Claude.
[53:59.290 --> 54:11.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: The law, even if it's been passed, if it's not constitutional, it can be frontally opposed and made null and void.
[54:12.060 --> 54:12.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[54:14.120 --> 54:22.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Also, I heard about this news story today morning, but I haven't heard if it applies to also within the United States.
[54:22.500 --> 54:24.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, if it applies to within...
[54:24.840 --> 54:26.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: Can they fire missiles at people inside the United States?
[54:26.640 --> 54:27.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's not about missiles.
[54:27.790 --> 54:28.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's about actually just shooting.
[54:29.140 --> 54:31.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, shooting, whatever points and whatever they feel like doing, but...
[54:31.480 --> 54:34.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: So if it applies within the United States, it's...
[54:34.060 --> 54:35.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, that just...
[54:35.460 --> 54:35.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[54:35.770 --> 54:35.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.
[54:35.900 --> 54:37.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's gonna turn everybody against them.
[54:37.580 --> 54:40.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, they've taken people from inside the United States.
[54:40.160 --> 54:43.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: They've taken American citizens from inside the United States and held them in secret areas.
[54:44.290 --> 54:44.800]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but they haven't killed them yet.
[54:44.900 --> 54:45.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: They haven't killed them yet.
[54:45.730 --> 54:47.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's the only thing they haven't done.
[54:47.230 --> 54:47.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[54:47.660 --> 54:51.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: But now they have the right to, which is horrible, and yeah.
[54:52.710 --> 54:53.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[54:53.520 --> 54:54.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's take another phone call.
[54:55.140 --> 54:55.730]  [SPEAKER_00]: And good evening.
[54:55.840 --> 54:56.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're on the air.
[54:56.790 --> 54:57.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hello?
[54:57.210 --> 54:57.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, go ahead.
[54:57.660 --> 55:05.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, I just wanted to follow up on the previous gentleman's discussion about the police being able to just come right into your house.
[55:06.380 --> 55:08.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: I found something very interesting.
[55:09.020 --> 55:10.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: I found a...
[55:10.620 --> 55:26.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: I had a virus on my computer, and I traced it down to a wireless network within my house, and I followed up on it, I'm kind of curious, and I found a book that's telling me that there's chips that are being put inside chips.
[55:26.560 --> 55:34.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's a thing called a Bluetooth, and also another network called IEEE 802.11.
[55:34.420 --> 55:34.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[55:36.020 --> 55:47.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: And basically these devices, whatever they're putting in refrigerators or putting in microwaves, everything you're buying now, have the ability to talk to each other without you even asking.
[55:47.440 --> 55:50.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, they will just go out and grab each other and start talking to each other.
[55:51.280 --> 55:51.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well...
[55:51.600 --> 56:04.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: With this capability, it's possible and very feasible that they can sit outside your door, and they say that hackers are already doing this, sit outside your door and listen to a conversation on their PC if they put a card in their PC.
[56:04.190 --> 56:04.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[56:04.420 --> 56:14.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: In the interest of time, we're going to have to cut this short, but what you're talking about I think is a whole show, and there are people double up in laughter about this right now, but I should caution them that while this may sound far-fetched...
[56:14.960 --> 56:16.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I'll give you a book you can laugh at.
[56:16.460 --> 56:16.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[56:16.840 --> 56:17.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll give you the name of the book.
[56:17.480 --> 56:19.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's called How Wireless Works.
[56:20.080 --> 56:25.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: The author is Preston G-R-A-L-L-A.
[56:25.790 --> 56:27.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can laugh at him because it's right in black...
[56:27.940 --> 56:33.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm not laughing because, you know, a few years ago people would be laughing at what was happening now and saying that could never happen in this country.
[56:33.640 --> 56:40.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: What you're saying is certainly something feasible that could happen in the very near future, I think, if not being developed already, and I'd like to know more about it.
[56:40.790 --> 56:45.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's all the... everything's in place if they should decide to take advantage of this technology.
[56:45.230 --> 56:47.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just wanted to put that on the air.
[56:47.120 --> 56:47.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[56:47.540 --> 56:47.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, thanks.
[56:47.800 --> 56:48.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for doing so.
[56:48.770 --> 56:49.690]  [SPEAKER_00]: And go ahead.
[56:50.940 --> 56:51.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: I...
[56:52.200 --> 56:52.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Why...
[56:53.320 --> 56:56.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: The book is a bit wrong of what the caller said is true.
[56:56.290 --> 57:01.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's because the Bluetooth technology hasn't been implemented into microeas.
[57:01.710 --> 57:02.820]  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, a whole other show.
[57:03.020 --> 57:03.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[57:03.320 --> 57:03.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[57:03.690 --> 57:04.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's take one more phone call.
[57:05.160 --> 57:05.640]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good evening.
[57:05.730 --> 57:06.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: You're on the air.
[57:07.060 --> 57:07.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[57:07.500 --> 57:07.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hi.
[57:07.820 --> 57:11.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have a question for the ragged confabulator.
[57:12.900 --> 57:13.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[57:13.300 --> 57:13.440]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[57:13.440 --> 57:14.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think...
[57:14.140 --> 57:14.710]  [SPEAKER_00]: I think...
[57:14.710 --> 57:17.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: You might have gotten it a little bit wrong, but what's your question?
[57:17.790 --> 57:19.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, how old are you?
[57:19.770 --> 57:20.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm 31.
[57:21.140 --> 57:21.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[57:21.480 --> 57:22.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have a beard?
[57:22.750 --> 57:23.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't.
[57:23.840 --> 57:24.100]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[57:24.290 --> 57:25.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: Do you have long hair?
[57:25.400 --> 57:25.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: Nope.
[57:25.960 --> 57:26.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're not me?
[57:27.160 --> 57:27.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
[57:27.960 --> 57:28.290]  [SPEAKER_00]: No.
[57:28.900 --> 57:29.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[57:29.560 --> 57:31.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to make sure this didn't happen to me.
[57:31.540 --> 57:35.250]  [SPEAKER_00]: No, but it might happen to you someday in the future, so you should be pretty careful.
[57:35.380 --> 57:35.560]  [SPEAKER_00]: I have cameras.
[57:35.790 --> 57:36.540]  [SPEAKER_00]: You have cameras?
[57:36.600 --> 57:39.880]  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyone who has cameras and walks around the street is at risk here.
[57:39.960 --> 57:41.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'll tell you a true story real quick.
[57:42.080 --> 57:53.250]  [SPEAKER_03]: When the World Economic Summit, where all the world leaders were at the UN, I saw President Clinton go by, and a friend and I went there and we wanted to see Castro.
[57:54.120 --> 57:58.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: And we were waiting around for Castro to come, and the cop said, you can't stand here.
[57:58.440 --> 57:59.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: You have to keep moving.
[57:59.120 --> 58:13.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: So we walked from one end of the street where we were penned up to another end of the street, where we were penned up to another end of the street, and we ended up getting jumped by some big guys who took our identification and told us that we couldn't be there anymore.
[58:14.480 --> 58:17.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it was a street that was right there where I used to live.
[58:17.790 --> 58:18.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow.
[58:19.300 --> 58:19.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[58:19.840 --> 58:20.140]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[58:20.210 --> 58:20.790]  [SPEAKER_00]: Get a hold of yourself.
[58:21.770 --> 58:29.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I was at the web forum too, and there were a lot of people around there, obviously, and a lot of controls, but I actually made it into the hotel.
[58:30.230 --> 58:33.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: So I can imagine what they could have charged me with.
[58:34.080 --> 58:37.770]  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, Mike, I want to thank you so much for telling your story and for staying on for the whole hour.
[58:38.640 --> 58:42.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be following up on this and hopefully helping out in whatever way we can.
[58:42.500 --> 58:45.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: And is there anything you'd like people out there to do?
[58:47.440 --> 58:50.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know, what you said, just get the news out.
[58:50.320 --> 58:58.940]  [SPEAKER_16]: It's an important story, and I think that it's important for people to hear about what can happen to them in this country, you know, just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
[58:59.160 --> 58:59.480]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[58:59.730 --> 59:01.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: And taking pictures of the wrong thing.
[59:01.920 --> 59:03.270]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or the right thing, you know?
[59:03.420 --> 59:03.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: Or the right thing.
[59:03.580 --> 59:04.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Who's to say it's the wrong thing?
[59:05.460 --> 59:05.860]  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[59:05.860 --> 59:12.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Anyone who wants more information on this or has ways of helping, please email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[59:12.210 --> 59:16.840]  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be keeping updated on this story, and we'll be in touch with you, Mike, as well.
[59:17.460 --> 59:17.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[59:17.730 --> 59:26.520]  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, thanks so much for standing up for your rights and for being an inspiration, and we'll hopefully be able to help and give people better news in the future.
[59:27.120 --> 59:27.420]  [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
[59:27.640 --> 59:28.120]  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, good night.
[59:28.730 --> 59:28.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: Good night.
[59:29.290 --> 59:30.230]  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's our show for tonight.
[59:30.500 --> 59:33.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be back again next week with probably another horror story.
[59:33.480 --> 59:34.080]  [SPEAKER_00]: See you then.