Off The Hook - 2002-12-25

[00:26.790 --> 00:39.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: And this is WBAI, New York, where a little bit of confusion is going on, but since Emmanuel won't be on today, we'll have his talented understudy crew.
[00:52.380 --> 00:53.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: OK, good.
[00:53.640 --> 00:54.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: When it rings, I'll hang up with you.
[00:55.220 --> 00:55.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Push the button.
[00:55.980 --> 00:56.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: The off button.
[01:44.070 --> 01:46.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: First time from Jamaica.
[01:47.910 --> 01:52.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thin, cha, and, a little right spot.
[01:52.910 --> 01:55.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Tell Ryan Wilson, you can cool up a radio.
[01:57.690 --> 02:01.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: K, whoo, UK, pop, radio.
[02:02.070 --> 02:05.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be back in front of the sound system.
[02:07.510 --> 02:15.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: If they got anything to say, There's a man in the black is heaven and sun.
[02:15.370 --> 02:18.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I was fucked up all night.
[02:38.940 --> 02:40.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Let's get you back.
[02:41.560 --> 02:42.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a fooling attack.
[02:43.620 --> 02:47.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Cause it won't get you anywhere.
[02:49.340 --> 02:51.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fooling with a gun.
[02:52.460 --> 02:57.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: The British Army is waiting out there.
[03:02.420 --> 03:08.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we have slightly irregular programming this Christmas day.
[03:08.700 --> 03:10.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is it a present or is it a booby prize?
[03:11.220 --> 03:17.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, we have off the hook a little bit of non-theme music.
[03:17.920 --> 03:19.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: It'll have to do.
[03:38.950 --> 03:56.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: It will be felt.
[03:56.000 --> 04:04.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: And we have to do it.
[04:07.020 --> 04:10.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: They got buttons, huh?
[04:10.980 --> 04:12.140]  [SPEAKER_10]: You think it's funny.
[04:12.940 --> 04:15.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: Shining rebellion is the money.
[04:17.260 --> 04:21.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, people changing their roles.
[04:22.160 --> 04:22.340]  A lot
[04:47.660 --> 04:49.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: of people in love with me.
[04:50.060 --> 04:52.500]  [SPEAKER_10]: To those looking for.
[04:54.140 --> 04:57.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh me, looking for.
[05:07.030 --> 05:11.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: For those who are wondering, Off the Hook will be on in like a few minutes.
[05:11.810 --> 05:18.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: We're just having some technical problems calling out, but everything will be resolved in about one minute or two minutes.
[05:26.960 --> 05:27.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: London's Berlin!
[05:30.380 --> 05:31.280]  [SPEAKER_10]: London's Berlin!
[05:46.290 --> 05:52.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: All across the town, all across the night, everybody's driving with forehead light.
[05:53.050 --> 05:56.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Black or white, you're turning on your face, a new religion.
[05:56.810 --> 05:59.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Everybody's sitting round, watching television.
[06:00.090 --> 06:02.450]  London's Berlin, we're bored on the
[06:11.790 --> 06:12.170]  night.
[06:12.590 --> 06:15.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm up and down the west way, in and out the light.
[06:15.650 --> 06:18.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: What a great traffic system, it's so bright.
[06:19.030 --> 06:22.150]  [SPEAKER_10]: I can't think of a better way to spend the night.
[06:22.150 --> 06:25.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're spinning around, running in the yellow light.
[06:26.250 --> 06:28.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: London's Berlin, we're bored on
[06:38.230 --> 06:38.590]  the night.
[06:38.830 --> 06:41.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now I'm in the subway, and I'm looking for the flat.
[06:42.190 --> 06:44.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: This one is to this block, this one is to that.
[06:45.250 --> 06:48.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Throwing down through the empty bomb, looking for a home.
[06:48.790 --> 06:51.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm up through the empty stone, cause I'm on the roof.
[07:36.840 --> 07:44.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, we'll play one more track, and then we'll start the show.
[07:44.180 --> 07:47.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: Apparently, your call can't be...
[08:02.000 --> 08:04.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, hell is one with me.
[08:04.360 --> 08:06.820]  I know who I want to be.
[08:07.120 --> 08:09.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: I tried for the cream, and I tried it all.
[08:10.420 --> 08:11.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Crawling up,
[08:44.070 --> 08:46.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: take a piece, take a cut.
[08:46.690 --> 08:48.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: You see the channel, so we lost a lot.
[08:49.370 --> 08:51.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm a bribe, the leather box.
[08:51.970 --> 08:53.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like a fucking man!
[09:30.420 --> 09:31.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[09:31.620 --> 09:32.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: So let me see.
[09:32.700 --> 09:34.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's get to track 13.
[09:34.500 --> 09:43.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: And you can hear in the background, you can hear frantic conversation, trying to make a connection.
[09:43.660 --> 09:46.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: But we're having... Well, you will have a program.
[09:47.100 --> 09:52.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: We probably will have Emmanuel Goldstein on the air.
[09:52.080 --> 09:53.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: From Europe.
[09:53.260 --> 09:55.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: But for the... Yes, Leo?
[09:55.500 --> 09:56.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: From Europe.
[09:56.540 --> 09:57.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: I believe Germany at the moment.
[09:58.240 --> 09:58.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: From Europe.
[09:58.980 --> 09:59.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: Modern technology.
[09:59.840 --> 10:02.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, let's go straight to a little bit more music.
[10:03.200 --> 10:06.640]  [SPEAKER_04]: This is recommended for your listening pleasure.
[10:35.310 --> 10:36.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be right back.
[10:36.270 --> 10:36.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: We'll be right back.
[10:36.570 --> 10:38.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: In the street.
[10:52.650 --> 10:53.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[10:54.830 --> 10:55.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Gone.
[10:55.250 --> 11:00.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: In the nation with their guns and ammunition.
[11:00.690 --> 11:05.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Genesis, the revelation.
[11:06.810 --> 11:12.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: The next generation will be in me.
[11:13.850 --> 11:18.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Genesis, the revelation.
[11:19.450 --> 11:24.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: The next generation will be in me.
[11:25.490 --> 11:28.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And all the crowd come in.
[11:29.690 --> 11:31.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Day by day.
[11:32.890 --> 11:35.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: And no one stops it.
[11:36.150 --> 11:38.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: In many ways.
[11:39.770 --> 11:41.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: All a peacemaker.
[11:42.550 --> 11:44.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: Turn war officer.
[11:46.230 --> 11:48.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hear what I say.
[11:51.430 --> 11:54.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: Police have these in the streets.
[11:55.250 --> 11:57.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[11:58.590 --> 12:03.470]  [SPEAKER_10]: Scaring the nation with their guns and ammunition.
[12:04.490 --> 12:07.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: Police have these in the streets.
[12:08.750 --> 12:10.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yeah.
[12:10.210 --> 12:16.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: Fighting the nation with their guns and ammunition.
[12:17.310 --> 12:22.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: Genesis, the revelation.
[12:23.470 --> 12:27.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: The next generation will be in me.
[12:54.920 --> 12:56.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[12:56.320 --> 12:56.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see.
[12:57.980 --> 13:02.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: This has been a long time for your... your me.
[13:03.180 --> 13:04.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm the only me I have.
[13:05.440 --> 13:08.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see if we can get the phone line.
[13:10.300 --> 13:12.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe Emmanuel is on the line.
[13:12.240 --> 13:13.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: I just potted up.
[13:13.720 --> 13:14.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: He is, he is.
[13:14.560 --> 13:15.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yep, he is.
[13:15.940 --> 13:17.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I don't hear him.
[13:17.460 --> 13:19.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because the mic, the line's not on.
[13:20.800 --> 13:21.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Try now.
[13:25.000 --> 13:25.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Eric, Emmanuel?
[13:26.820 --> 13:27.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you hear him?
[13:29.640 --> 13:32.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hear nothing, and the listeners hear nothing.
[13:33.220 --> 13:34.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: That's a guaranteed fact.
[13:35.580 --> 13:36.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: He's on the line.
[13:37.440 --> 13:38.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, he's on the line.
[13:39.320 --> 13:40.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's yelling, he's screaming.
[13:40.820 --> 13:42.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, does somebody know...
[13:42.560 --> 13:45.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is there a button that looks particularly friendly to you?
[13:46.700 --> 13:47.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I can hear you.
[13:50.720 --> 13:52.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, line 12.
[13:52.780 --> 13:53.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Line 12?
[13:58.700 --> 14:00.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody just walked away.
[14:00.980 --> 14:02.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: And I'll tell you what.
[14:02.800 --> 14:05.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's at least have a little background.
[14:06.200 --> 14:07.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[14:09.640 --> 14:14.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: So there's something called line 12 that shouldn't be complicated.
[14:15.220 --> 14:24.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: But when dealing with people out of the loop entirely, hands are floating around over control board.
[14:25.000 --> 14:25.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's go back to music.
[14:25.960 --> 14:26.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[14:27.080 --> 14:28.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: I've been told to go back to music.
[14:29.120 --> 14:30.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: We're going to do that.
[15:39.360 --> 15:41.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel, I think I heard something.
[15:41.740 --> 15:42.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you did.
[15:42.580 --> 15:44.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, thank the Lord.
[15:44.060 --> 15:45.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: You heard something, all right.
[15:46.920 --> 15:47.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[15:47.620 --> 15:48.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Do speak a little.
[15:48.560 --> 15:50.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: You have such interesting things to say.
[15:50.080 --> 15:51.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, I have a lot of interesting things.
[15:51.140 --> 15:54.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: I cannot believe how hard it is for you guys to make a simple phone call.
[15:55.080 --> 15:55.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: I just cannot believe.
[15:56.080 --> 16:00.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: I've been sitting here for 15 minutes talking you guys through how to make a phone call.
[16:01.740 --> 16:08.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: I mean, the frustration is just unbelievable because I can't talk on my cell phone overseas anymore because it costs money now.
[16:08.740 --> 16:09.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: It costs 99 cents a minute.
[16:09.720 --> 16:13.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: But I still had to do it to talk people into how to make a phone call.
[16:14.280 --> 16:16.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, well, I'm glad we finally got that straight.
[16:18.040 --> 16:19.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: Am I still connected?
[16:19.940 --> 16:20.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're connected.
[16:21.020 --> 16:21.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good, okay.
[16:21.800 --> 16:25.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: And maybe all the microphones here are potted up.
[16:25.480 --> 16:26.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, that's a real accomplishment.
[16:26.760 --> 16:27.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm happy to hear this.
[16:28.440 --> 16:34.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, we've been playing music from The Clash because of the tragic death of Joe Strummer.
[16:34.380 --> 16:38.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: And that's something that I found out about just as I was heading over here to Amsterdam.
[16:38.640 --> 16:42.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: And it's certainly something that a lot of people have been affected by.
[16:43.200 --> 16:45.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: Very unexpected, very tragic.
[16:45.540 --> 16:51.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: I've gotten so many phone calls from people over the past couple of days who figured I'd be traumatized by it.
[16:51.560 --> 16:53.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: And they were pretty correct as far as that goes.
[16:53.940 --> 16:57.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: It was something that nobody saw coming.
[16:57.280 --> 17:03.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: And a real voice of the whole punk movement, the late 70s, 80s, and beyond.
[17:04.380 --> 17:09.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: And we're all very sad to have to share that news with people.
[17:11.420 --> 17:18.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: As far as everything else goes, I'm over here for the beginning of the Chaos Communications Congress, which is actually in Berlin.
[17:18.560 --> 17:19.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Where is here?
[17:19.740 --> 17:20.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Here is in Amsterdam.
[17:21.800 --> 17:26.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I'm leaving Amsterdam tomorrow to head over to Berlin to take part in that.
[17:28.020 --> 17:30.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: And there are a lot of other people that are going over there as well.
[17:31.000 --> 17:34.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: The Chaos Communications Congress, of course, is the annual hacker convention that takes place in Berlin.
[17:34.980 --> 17:38.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's been going on longer than any other convention since 1984.
[17:39.320 --> 17:46.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: And every year, more people from different parts of the world show up and all kinds of fun things happen.
[17:46.300 --> 17:48.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: Technology of all sorts is shared.
[17:49.200 --> 17:50.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: And technology, too, is something very interesting.
[17:51.840 --> 17:55.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: On the way over here, I realized how much technology has changed.
[17:56.760 --> 18:01.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: Because sitting on the airplane, I just had access to so many different things at once.
[18:01.860 --> 18:11.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: I've gotten this thing known as an iPod, which allows you to copy all of your music in MP3 format over to a little device that's about as big as your hand.
[18:11.500 --> 18:18.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: And on that device, I have over 3,000 songs for a total of nine days' worth of music that I could listen to.
[18:19.840 --> 18:22.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, that makes a plane ride go pretty fast.
[18:22.200 --> 18:27.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: But of course, I also have a computer that I can play with and listen to old shows of Off the Hook on that as well.
[18:27.780 --> 18:29.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: I can read things in addition to that.
[18:30.740 --> 18:34.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's just amazing how much technology has shrunken down.
[18:34.540 --> 18:35.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: I used to have to...
[18:36.640 --> 18:43.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: I used to think that a big 18-CD changer was cool because that was a lot of CDs.
[18:43.480 --> 18:46.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: And now I have 3,000 songs on something as big as my hand.
[18:46.740 --> 18:48.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: I just don't know where it can go from here.
[18:49.440 --> 18:53.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: So those are the kinds of things that I was thinking about mulling over on the way over here.
[18:54.400 --> 18:56.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: How much things have changed over the years.
[18:56.340 --> 18:57.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, not too many years either.
[19:01.800 --> 19:03.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: So tell us a bit about the conference.
[19:03.980 --> 19:06.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, how can I tell you about the conference when it hasn't begun yet?
[19:06.320 --> 19:08.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, you might have expectations or something.
[19:08.440 --> 19:10.340]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I have expectations that it's going to be...
[19:10.340 --> 19:13.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: By the way, before I do that, I just want to remind people there.
[19:13.880 --> 19:18.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm sure I'm going to get disconnected again, but we do want to patch Bernie S in.
[19:18.120 --> 19:23.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: Bernie S is currently on his way to Newark Airport where he's on his way to Berlin as well.
[19:25.180 --> 19:31.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: So hopefully there's somebody there that knows how to dial a phone and can dial that number and put it on hold and connect us together.
[19:31.540 --> 19:33.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: We're taking care of it right now.
[19:33.200 --> 19:33.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[19:33.440 --> 19:34.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're working on it.
[19:34.400 --> 19:36.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, you're grabbing somebody off the street that can do this maybe.
[19:37.640 --> 19:38.680]  [SPEAKER_05]: There's no one on the street.
[19:38.820 --> 19:39.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's Christmas.
[19:39.440 --> 19:39.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's true.
[19:40.140 --> 19:40.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: And it's snowing.
[19:40.820 --> 19:40.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[19:41.360 --> 19:41.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[19:41.760 --> 19:42.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: And you know, it's very different.
[19:42.680 --> 19:43.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: Christmas over here is very different.
[19:44.760 --> 19:48.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: They separate the Santa Claus thing from the Christmas thing.
[19:49.620 --> 19:57.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: In Holland, Santa Claus Day is December 6th and that's when all the kids get presents and things like that and December 25th is just a totally different type of a day.
[19:57.920 --> 20:00.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: There's actually two days of Christmas, the 25th and the 26th.
[20:01.540 --> 20:03.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: Most things are closed on the 25th.
[20:03.160 --> 20:04.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: A few more things are open on the 26th.
[20:05.120 --> 20:09.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: So it's a bit more relaxed, a bit less chaotic, which is always a nice thing.
[20:09.780 --> 20:11.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we have plenty of chaos here.
[20:11.120 --> 20:12.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: You can maybe borrow some.
[20:12.600 --> 20:14.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, I've noticed there's quite a bit of chaos there.
[20:16.860 --> 20:17.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: Unbelievable.
[20:17.440 --> 20:19.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: Anything that could possibly go wrong has gone wrong.
[20:19.820 --> 20:22.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure if we try we can make more things go wrong.
[20:22.400 --> 20:22.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[20:23.200 --> 20:24.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: Did Jim ever show up by the way?
[20:24.920 --> 20:25.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no.
[20:25.660 --> 20:27.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: We haven't seen Jim who has the...
[20:27.000 --> 20:31.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, Jim is the guy that we trusted with the opening theme and with the cassette to tape the show.
[20:31.780 --> 20:34.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, of course, Jim doesn't show up on the day that we trust him to do that.
[20:34.420 --> 20:37.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's probably not his fault because it's snowing like crazy outside.
[20:37.580 --> 20:40.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, I mean, even Bernie has his plane might be delayed because of all the snow.
[20:40.900 --> 20:41.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, I'm sorry.
[20:41.880 --> 20:43.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: I just don't accept those as excuses.
[20:44.360 --> 20:45.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, they have blizzards over here.
[20:45.860 --> 20:47.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: People get places they have to get to.
[20:47.620 --> 20:50.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's, you know, you know these things are coming.
[20:50.380 --> 20:50.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: At least...
[20:50.620 --> 20:51.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: How much snow...
[20:51.580 --> 20:52.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: Let me ask you this.
[20:52.620 --> 20:53.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: How much snow is actually on the ground?
[20:54.080 --> 20:56.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: Is it, what, a foot, two feet or maybe like an inch?
[20:56.600 --> 20:57.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's about 12 feet.
[20:57.520 --> 20:59.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: 12 feet of snow is on the ground.
[21:00.600 --> 21:01.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: 12 feet of snow is on the...
[21:01.840 --> 21:03.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: 144 inches of snow on the ground.
[21:03.700 --> 21:04.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it's about an inch right now.
[21:05.040 --> 21:05.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: About an inch.
[21:05.620 --> 21:07.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, that's enough to throw New York into chaos.
[21:07.340 --> 21:07.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: I know that much.
[21:09.120 --> 21:09.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[21:10.760 --> 21:12.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, are we going to try to get Bernie S.
[21:12.420 --> 21:12.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: on the line?
[21:12.920 --> 21:14.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: We're trying right now.
[21:14.820 --> 21:16.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: They're reading the manuals.
[21:16.120 --> 21:17.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: They're thumbing through everything to get that going.
[21:18.820 --> 21:20.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: I can read some stories.
[21:20.480 --> 21:21.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: I have some letters.
[21:21.740 --> 21:22.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: I have all kinds of things here.
[21:23.900 --> 21:27.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I mean, I can ask people there is anything going on in New York that I should know about.
[21:27.800 --> 21:29.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, aside from it's snowing, I can't think of much.
[21:30.040 --> 21:32.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, you know, I've been in Vermont for the last couple months.
[21:32.780 --> 21:33.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes, that's right, Alex.
[21:33.640 --> 21:35.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: You've been... I assume everyone's introduced themselves.
[21:36.260 --> 21:37.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, not yet, actually.
[21:37.000 --> 21:37.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, well, you're Alex.
[21:37.840 --> 21:38.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm here.
[21:38.700 --> 21:40.340]  [SPEAKER_19]: I used to be on... And Alex, I want to thank you.
[21:40.420 --> 21:42.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: You're the only person that I could figure out had a dial over here.
[21:43.720 --> 21:44.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: It took a long time, though.
[21:45.180 --> 21:49.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: Given the phone number, that was, you know, it was a bit more complicated than just having the phone number.
[21:49.560 --> 21:50.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes, it definitely was.
[21:50.180 --> 21:52.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: But, yes, if it wasn't for you, I probably wouldn't be talking right now.
[21:53.080 --> 21:58.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: So I'm glad you came down from Vermont, and hopefully you can stay here until I get back.
[21:58.280 --> 21:58.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah.
[21:58.660 --> 21:59.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: Which won't be for a while.
[21:59.980 --> 22:03.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it's... I'll tell you, it's an experience living in Vermont and then coming back to New York.
[22:04.120 --> 22:05.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's a different type of lifestyle.
[22:05.640 --> 22:12.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm up at Vermont Law School, and luckily, we had the extreme pleasure of seeing Jell Biafra come and speak, similar to...
[22:12.800 --> 22:20.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, he said totally different things than what he said at H2K2 and H2K, which was a real experience.
[22:21.120 --> 22:25.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: He has really interesting acronyms about the War on Terror, if you could figure it out.
[22:25.760 --> 22:27.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: He said a lot of things about John Ashcrack.
[22:28.120 --> 22:31.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was a real pleasure to come see him speak again.
[22:32.100 --> 22:35.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: And he came down to Vermont Law School for absolutely nothing.
[22:35.680 --> 22:37.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just did it all by himself.
[22:38.740 --> 22:41.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was really, really enlightening.
[22:41.260 --> 22:44.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think we should invite him back for every conference that we do.
[22:45.620 --> 22:46.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, I agree.
[22:46.620 --> 22:50.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I think he'd be very happy to come by and say all the interesting things that he always says.
[22:51.200 --> 22:52.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's good to know people like that are out there.
[22:52.940 --> 22:53.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: Tons of things to say.
[22:53.960 --> 22:56.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: So we did manage to work the telephone to talk to Bernie S.
[22:56.960 --> 22:59.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: He is... I could hear the whole conversation over here.
[22:59.200 --> 23:02.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: How is it possible that I could hear you talking to him on the phone from over here?
[23:03.120 --> 23:04.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because the mic wasn't turned off.
[23:04.820 --> 23:07.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: We have very many talented people here in the station.
[23:07.060 --> 23:09.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: It sounds like you're outdoing yourselves over there.
[23:09.300 --> 23:09.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: It really does.
[23:11.160 --> 23:14.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel, apologies offered all across the board here.
[23:14.820 --> 23:16.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm going to expect things in writing.
[23:16.800 --> 23:17.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: You are right.
[23:18.460 --> 23:21.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: You wanted to be able to show to appropriate authorities, huh?
[23:22.060 --> 23:23.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[23:23.820 --> 23:25.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: But anyway, you guys, Bernie S.
[23:25.100 --> 23:25.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: on the line.
[23:25.560 --> 23:30.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, he is currently driving, and he's in the snow and doesn't want to talk while driving through the snow.
[23:30.620 --> 23:31.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, I see.
[23:31.200 --> 23:31.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[23:31.580 --> 23:32.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: So we will call him back later.
[23:33.120 --> 23:33.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[23:34.460 --> 23:39.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, at least we were able to get through to him and get a weather traffic report at the same time.
[23:39.560 --> 23:42.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: That would be the weather in Philadelphia for interested listeners.
[23:42.500 --> 23:43.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, no, he's on his way to Newark.
[23:43.920 --> 23:45.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think he's somewhere in Newark right now.
[23:46.240 --> 23:50.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: Knowing Bernie S., he's probably somewhere in Connecticut at this point.
[23:50.080 --> 23:50.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: I don't know.
[23:52.080 --> 23:53.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, well, what would you like to do?
[23:53.720 --> 23:55.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: We can do several things.
[23:55.260 --> 23:57.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: I have some news stories here, some letters here.
[23:57.220 --> 23:58.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: We can take phone calls, all kinds of possibilities.
[23:59.260 --> 24:00.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I've got a question for you to start off.
[24:00.920 --> 24:01.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[24:02.260 --> 24:05.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: What's the news about Joe Strummer in the Netherlands?
[24:05.220 --> 24:06.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do people care?
[24:06.340 --> 24:07.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, yeah, of course.
[24:07.580 --> 24:09.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: I mean, everyone seems to know about it everywhere.
[24:09.900 --> 24:10.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: He wasn't just...
[24:10.960 --> 24:14.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, part of a band that was popular in the UK and the US.
[24:15.140 --> 24:16.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: The Clash were worldwide.
[24:17.000 --> 24:20.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, you know, in many, many circles, the only band that mattered.
[24:21.420 --> 24:23.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: That was their slogan, in fact.
[24:23.620 --> 24:25.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: So, yeah, everyone here knows about it.
[24:25.200 --> 24:29.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: And it's just as shocking as it is everybody else.
[24:29.900 --> 24:30.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, maybe that was it.
[24:30.980 --> 24:36.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe it was some kind of divine intervention from beyond that screwed the phone system up just so we could listen to three Clash songs.
[24:37.080 --> 24:39.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, what songs did we hear, by the way, since I wasn't able to hear anything?
[24:39.560 --> 24:47.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: We heard... I know we heard White Man and Hammersmith Palais, London's Burning, and whatever else came after The Clash is the Clash.
[24:48.020 --> 24:50.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because at that point, I was frantically on the phone.
[24:50.260 --> 24:51.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't quite remember.
[24:51.940 --> 24:52.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[24:52.600 --> 24:52.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[24:53.260 --> 24:57.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, yes, I guess that was a taste of what it was all about.
[24:57.800 --> 25:06.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: And since Jim isn't here and he has the only cassette that I handed out, did anybody find a cassette to record the show?
[25:07.240 --> 25:07.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, no.
[25:07.900 --> 25:08.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: We'll have to get it online.
[25:09.560 --> 25:09.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[25:10.020 --> 25:23.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: So if anyone out there... I can't believe I have to do this, but if anyone out there is listening and actually recording the show, you know, normal quality and not on the net, please contact us, OTH at 2600.com, so that we'll have a good copy of the show as well.
[25:23.820 --> 25:25.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if we really want one.
[25:25.560 --> 25:27.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Jim is here in Rustling Papers, as always.
[25:29.020 --> 25:30.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: I thought you said Jim wasn't there.
[25:30.620 --> 25:32.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, well, Jim just walked in the door.
[25:32.440 --> 25:32.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh.
[25:32.760 --> 25:33.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Say hi, Jim.
[25:33.620 --> 25:34.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hi, Jim.
[25:34.340 --> 25:34.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: Hi, Jim.
[25:35.580 --> 25:36.340]  [SPEAKER_19]: What happened?
[25:36.420 --> 25:37.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: You took the subway or something?
[25:38.840 --> 25:39.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: No.
[25:39.480 --> 25:41.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Actually, at one o'clock, I left Atlantic City.
[25:42.920 --> 25:46.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: The first bus I was on got flooded out on Black Horse Pike.
[25:48.900 --> 25:53.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I literally got into the city 20 minutes ago.
[25:53.820 --> 25:56.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: And took a cab down here, which is another fun experience.
[25:56.500 --> 25:56.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh-huh.
[25:57.880 --> 26:00.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, well, just make sure the cassette goes into the cassette player.
[26:00.740 --> 26:01.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's recording right now.
[26:02.140 --> 26:02.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's recording now.
[26:02.320 --> 26:03.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, well, then everything's perfect.
[26:03.840 --> 26:04.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: Everything's working just great.
[26:05.080 --> 26:06.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: We could even put the theme on, if you like.
[26:06.940 --> 26:07.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh-huh.
[26:08.160 --> 26:10.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think maybe we'll close with the theme this time.
[26:10.300 --> 26:10.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: How about that?
[26:10.760 --> 26:11.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: Excellent idea.
[26:11.560 --> 26:12.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, since we opened with everything else.
[26:14.200 --> 26:19.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, so any interesting stories from you, Jim, besides the fact that it's snowing and everybody doesn't know what to do over there?
[26:19.760 --> 26:21.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, no, not particularly.
[26:22.140 --> 26:28.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure I could come up with something, but man, I'm so frazzled listening to you excoriate me as I ride the cab downtown.
[26:28.400 --> 26:28.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: I don't blame you too much.
[26:28.540 --> 26:30.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, yeah, you had the cab driver listening to the radio, huh?
[26:30.540 --> 26:31.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I did.
[26:31.260 --> 26:31.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's pretty cool.
[26:32.260 --> 26:32.460]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[26:32.920 --> 26:36.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: He actually was listening to WBAI as it came in.
[26:36.480 --> 26:38.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: And I was pleased to see you start with the clash.
[26:39.540 --> 26:40.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I didn't really have a choice, did I?
[26:41.380 --> 26:41.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, true.
[26:41.880 --> 26:43.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: There wasn't any other way to get on the air.
[26:44.720 --> 26:46.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: But no, I'm very happy everyone is there.
[26:46.960 --> 26:49.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: I appreciate everybody showing up and lending a hand.
[26:50.640 --> 27:01.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Despite all the snafus, it's good to have the show actually make it onto the air so that we can bring people into use of interesting technological snafus, such as the ones that we're bringing you now.
[27:02.480 --> 27:05.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: But there are other ones going on, such as this one.
[27:05.280 --> 27:05.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: How about this?
[27:06.000 --> 27:15.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: A Senate recording studio worker dubbed the pornographic movie while at work, then compounded his sin by inadvertently showing the film on an internal Senate TV station.
[27:16.820 --> 27:19.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's according to the Senate Sergeant at Arms office.
[27:19.920 --> 27:29.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: He said the employee was placed on administrative leave for the December 6th event in which an unidentified pornographic film was put on a closed circuit channel available in Senate offices.
[27:30.420 --> 27:38.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: You may note that the Senate didn't open for a couple of hours on that date because senators were in their offices for an extended period of time.
[27:38.220 --> 27:44.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, what you'd forget to mention is that they did this because they could not find Strom Thurmond's defibrillator.
[27:44.760 --> 27:45.060]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah.
[27:45.600 --> 27:48.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I thought it must have been Strom Thurmond that did it himself.
[27:48.360 --> 27:49.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, that's possible, too.
[27:49.440 --> 27:50.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you're that or Trent Lott.
[27:50.600 --> 27:54.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: Strom Thurmond has been remarkably quiet about this whole Trent Lott mess.
[27:54.240 --> 27:55.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, he's 100 years old.
[27:55.500 --> 27:57.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's true, but he'd think he'd say something, you know?
[27:58.280 --> 27:59.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: All the trouble he's caused.
[28:00.360 --> 28:02.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah, that's what I don't quite get about it.
[28:02.200 --> 28:03.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, he's the real troublemaker.
[28:03.900 --> 28:05.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: It wasn't Trent Lott.
[28:05.400 --> 28:08.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, Trent Lott said that, but it was only by inference that he got himself in trouble.
[28:08.980 --> 28:09.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[28:09.280 --> 28:11.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, Strom Thurmond, he's the one who should be really getting castigated.
[28:11.900 --> 28:12.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, wait a minute.
[28:12.460 --> 28:16.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: This is something Strom did 50 years ago when he actually, uh, did things.
[28:16.920 --> 28:17.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's true.
[28:17.800 --> 28:18.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's very true.
[28:18.940 --> 28:21.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, uh, so, so what else is going on?
[28:21.360 --> 28:22.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, how about this?
[28:22.240 --> 28:22.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: A U.S.
[28:22.780 --> 28:31.340]  [SPEAKER_19]: federal judge has ordered the Arizona Department of Corrections to stop enforcing a policy prohibiting inmates from corresponding with or appearing on websites?
[28:32.120 --> 28:32.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes.
[28:33.040 --> 28:33.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, U.S.
[28:33.720 --> 28:43.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: District Judge Earl Carroll granted an injunction request on, uh, uh, a week ago Monday by the American Civil Liberties Union to stop enforcement of the law, which is a subject of a pending lawsuit.
[28:43.280 --> 28:48.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: Putting free speech behind bars simply because it concerns prisoners sets a dangerous precedent.
[28:48.600 --> 28:51.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: Said Arizona ACLU attorney David Faddy.
[28:51.280 --> 28:54.960]  [SPEAKER_19]: The court's decision makes clear that Arizona may not jail the Internet.
[28:55.780 --> 28:57.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: What do they mean by appearing on websites?
[28:58.920 --> 29:07.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, well, let's say, uh, for instance, what we did with, uh, Kevin Mitnick or Bernie S, uh, where they basically had a voice on a website and they could tell their story.
[29:07.840 --> 29:14.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: A lot of other prisoners are doing the same thing where they have a particular story to tell as to why they're in prison, that injustice that, that happened to them.
[29:14.760 --> 29:19.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, uh, they, they have a way of getting their voice out there and having people on the outside connect.
[29:19.460 --> 29:25.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: What they were doing over there in Arizona was preventing people from doing that, saying that you're not allowed to have a voice on the Internet.
[29:26.340 --> 29:30.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, it, it seems like something almost impossible to enforce, but they were trying to do it anyway.
[29:31.360 --> 29:32.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's really interesting.
[29:32.300 --> 29:33.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: That was a, it was a U.S.
[29:33.580 --> 29:35.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: district court judge that issued the injunction?
[29:35.220 --> 29:35.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, that's right.
[29:35.940 --> 29:36.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's great.
[29:36.740 --> 29:37.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's great.
[29:37.200 --> 29:40.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, hopefully that will have, uh, that will catch on with the other districts.
[29:40.980 --> 29:41.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh-huh.
[29:41.460 --> 29:48.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh, I'm sure that, you know, whatever government entities sponsored that, that act or that bill will challenge it.
[29:48.700 --> 29:50.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then maybe we'll get to the Supreme Court.
[29:50.720 --> 29:51.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe we'll set some good precedents.
[29:51.920 --> 29:52.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's an excellent decision.
[29:53.200 --> 29:58.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: And just for, uh, more information on that, it was a statute that was passed by the legislature in 2000.
[29:58.260 --> 30:08.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: It made it a misdemeanor for an inmate to communicate with Internet service providers or send a letter to a website or to a third-party who then forwards it to a website or publishes it for the inmate.
[30:08.660 --> 30:18.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, so what they wound up facing for that was, uh, losing all kinds of privileges, good behavior credits, or, you know, all kinds of other punishments such as torture that, uh, they faced for that kind of thing.
[30:18.580 --> 30:22.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Let's remind people when, uh, when, uh, we sent the facts on behalf of the of Bernie S.
[30:22.680 --> 30:26.960]  [SPEAKER_03]: They rousted him in the middle of the night from his cell, uh, asking him where the fax machine was.
[30:27.400 --> 30:28.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's correct, yeah.
[30:28.260 --> 30:28.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's true.
[30:28.880 --> 30:31.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it really makes you wonder, though, the kinds of clowns that pass these bills.
[30:32.020 --> 30:38.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, the way you described it, it sounded like such an obvious violation of the First Amendment, but yet they go ahead and do it.
[30:38.160 --> 30:42.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: Because they're prisoners, and you can get away with it when it's prisoners because nobody cares about them.
[30:42.300 --> 30:44.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Especially when you, uh, prohibit them from having a voice.
[30:44.900 --> 30:45.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: Mm-hmm.
[30:45.120 --> 30:51.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: And then, uh, once it works on prisoners, then they can work on the rest of the society and, uh, you know, uh, try it on the rest of us.
[30:51.940 --> 30:54.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's, uh, you know, you have to keep an eye on these things.
[30:54.200 --> 30:57.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: You have to, you have to not tell yourself they're prisoners, they don't matter.
[30:57.840 --> 30:58.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, they do.
[30:58.600 --> 31:03.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: They're human beings, and, uh, you know, they're, they're a lot more like us than you might want to believe.
[31:04.180 --> 31:06.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, here's another interesting story on a different topic.
[31:07.460 --> 31:11.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: Um, you might have heard the song I Can't Wait by Hilary Duff.
[31:11.820 --> 31:16.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, uh, and if you haven't heard that song, it's probably because you're not listening to, uh, Radio Disney.
[31:16.680 --> 31:23.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: That song has been in the top three on Radio Disney stations all across the country, but everywhere else, the song hasn't even made it to the top 50.
[31:24.060 --> 31:24.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, how can this be?
[31:25.080 --> 31:31.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, some critics say that's what happens when a company controls the recording artist, the record label, and the radio network.
[31:31.600 --> 31:39.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: So, uh, that's, uh, that was a story that appeared on National Public Radio, actually, about how Disney is able to control who becomes a star and who does not.
[31:39.780 --> 31:41.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, it's certainly the case.
[31:41.140 --> 31:45.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that sort of vertical monopoly used to be illegal, of course, but...
[31:45.100 --> 31:45.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, it used to be.
[31:45.740 --> 31:48.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: It just sort of swept under the rug, and now anybody can do it.
[31:49.040 --> 31:50.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, anybody who has monopoly can do it.
[31:50.980 --> 31:51.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: I can't do it.
[31:51.720 --> 31:59.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's a, there's another news article about monopolies, which is about, uh, the Microsoft, uh, Sun, the Microsoft antitrust, uh, lawsuit.
[32:00.260 --> 32:00.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: The Java stuff.
[32:01.000 --> 32:01.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, the Java stuff.
[32:01.520 --> 32:02.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: Ah, yes, good news for a change.
[32:03.060 --> 32:03.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, U.S.
[32:03.600 --> 32:05.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: District Judge, uh, J.
[32:05.240 --> 32:15.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Frederick Mott granted a preliminary injunction sought by, uh, by Sun, and, uh, because Microsoft was not supporting Java on Windows XP.
[32:16.180 --> 32:23.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, now, uh, the judge forced, uh, Microsoft to, to support Java, and, uh, Microsoft refused, uh...
[32:23.700 --> 32:34.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, look, Emmanuel, basically, they, they were incorporating a backward form of Java into their software, and Java's demanding that they have the current version.
[32:34.340 --> 32:34.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: No.
[32:34.540 --> 32:34.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: No?
[32:34.920 --> 32:35.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: No.
[32:35.440 --> 32:41.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: They were, uh, uh, Microsoft shipped, uh, Windows XP without any Java support, from what I hear, without any Java support.
[32:41.860 --> 32:52.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: When, uh, Sun, uh, complained and sued them, Microsoft said that they will support Java, uh, by upgrading XP until 2004, when support will stop.
[32:52.500 --> 32:54.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, uh, so Sun went to court, U.S.
[32:54.620 --> 32:55.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: District Court.
[32:55.360 --> 33:06.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: The judge, uh, granted, um, uh, from the preliminary injunction, which, uh, which told Microsoft to keep supporting, uh, Java until the lawsuit is settled, or whatever happens.
[33:07.040 --> 33:08.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that's the story.
[33:09.200 --> 33:09.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting.
[33:10.020 --> 33:14.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: And there's also, uh, another story about the, uh, Information Awareness Office.
[33:14.960 --> 33:31.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, as people who don't know, it's a division of DARPA, which, uh, is, which has the Total Information Awareness Program in it, which is basically, in order to catch terrorists, the government now wants to take all commercial and non-commercial, as well as government databases,
[33:31.760 --> 33:38.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: put them together, and use different algorithms, somehow use different algorithms to track, uh, terrorists.
[33:39.340 --> 33:47.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, uh, so, uh, this, uh, reporter for the San Francisco Weekly named, uh, Matt Smith, he's a columnist there.
[33:47.280 --> 34:01.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: He wrote a column about, uh, how the system would be abused, and as a joke example, uh, he posted John Poindexter's home address and telephone number, uh, and names of his neighbors onto his column.
[34:01.360 --> 34:11.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: And what happened is that, uh, uh, uh, the information spread, and what ended up is that, uh, the recent thing that I heard about it was that, uh...
[34:11.440 --> 34:12.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: On Krypton, I believe.
[34:12.460 --> 34:12.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, Krypton.
[34:13.160 --> 34:20.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: On Krypton.org, yeah, there's actually pictures of the satellite, uh, satellite of his home, uh, there's all kinds of information.
[34:21.180 --> 34:21.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, uh...
[34:21.520 --> 34:22.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, Emmanuel, please.
[34:22.620 --> 34:28.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Um, I've got an announcement that, that our program director, Bernard, uh...
[34:28.500 --> 34:29.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Bernard something.
[34:29.620 --> 34:30.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: Gee, I'm blank on the name.
[34:30.740 --> 34:31.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: Bernard White, I believe.
[34:31.780 --> 34:32.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: Thank you very much.
[34:32.600 --> 34:33.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: What if I missed something else?
[34:33.480 --> 34:36.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, the port... what he's... what, the announcement I've been given.
[34:36.740 --> 34:43.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: The Port Authority has suspended all outbound service at this time.
[34:43.960 --> 34:45.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: No outbound buses.
[34:46.200 --> 34:46.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: Wait a minute.
[34:47.160 --> 34:48.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: Hold on a second.
[34:48.460 --> 34:48.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: From Manhattan?
[34:49.180 --> 34:50.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: No outbound buses from Manhattan.
[34:50.880 --> 34:51.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: Why is this?
[34:52.500 --> 34:55.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: It just says the Port Authority said don't do it.
[34:55.520 --> 34:56.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: So it won't get done.
[34:57.500 --> 35:03.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel, Emmanuel, that was, um, important... important enough that Bernard White said announce it.
[35:03.960 --> 35:04.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's been announced.
[35:05.120 --> 35:06.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, but, I mean, why are they...
[35:06.980 --> 35:07.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Because of the weather.
[35:08.100 --> 35:08.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's pretty bad here.
[35:09.060 --> 35:10.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: Because of one inch of snow on the ground?
[35:10.740 --> 35:11.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's not really slow.
[35:11.880 --> 35:13.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's half snow, half slush.
[35:13.380 --> 35:15.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: So it's really slippery, even walking down the streets.
[35:16.020 --> 35:16.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[35:16.300 --> 35:18.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: I see people just sliding along, like on ice skates.
[35:18.640 --> 35:20.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: People are... Yeah, I wish I could be there for this.
[35:20.460 --> 35:21.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this is exactly...
[35:21.000 --> 35:24.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: It actually is fun if, if, if you're not trying to get downtown in a hurry.
[35:24.640 --> 35:28.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: I enjoy this kind of weather immensely, and here I am in Amsterdam, and I can't enjoy this.
[35:28.760 --> 35:30.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: This, this is so typical of the kind of luck I have.
[35:31.020 --> 35:36.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're watching New York 1 as, as we speak, and they've got exterior shots that you simply can't believe.
[35:36.320 --> 35:37.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: I haven't seen stuff like this in five years.
[35:38.300 --> 35:39.140]  [SPEAKER_03]: No, this is nothing.
[35:39.340 --> 35:40.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, this happens every night in Vermont.
[35:41.120 --> 35:42.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah, but that's Vermont.
[35:43.120 --> 35:44.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, let me tell you something.
[35:44.280 --> 35:51.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, after I get back from Amsterdam, of course, I'm leaving immediately to go on the Kevin Mtdnick Freedom Tour, uh, which will take us over to L.A.
[35:51.600 --> 35:59.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: uh, by January 20th, which is when Kevin Mitnick gets off his supervised release, um, and we'll be out there filming for the DVD release of Freedom Downtime.
[35:59.960 --> 36:10.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, on the way back, we intend to take the most northern route through Idaho and Montana and North Dakota and those kind of places, and if I don't see a storm like this while I'm doing that, I'm just going to be convinced that I'm cursed.
[36:11.420 --> 36:13.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Make sure you're prepared for bad weather.
[36:13.200 --> 36:18.760]  [SPEAKER_05]: Some people, some people will consider themselves, themselves lucky, but we have a diversity of opinion on that.
[36:18.760 --> 36:19.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we might be right.
[36:19.940 --> 36:20.720]  [SPEAKER_04]: He might be cursed.
[36:20.720 --> 36:22.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's always more fun when you don't prepare for it, too.
[36:23.380 --> 36:23.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's true.
[36:24.320 --> 36:29.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think, going back to the Information Awareness Office bit, uh, if anybody hasn't seen their logo...
[36:29.780 --> 36:30.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, you won't see it now.
[36:30.940 --> 36:38.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's been... it's a really, really interesting logo, and I have nothing against the Masons, obviously, but I think that even, even I think the logo is really scary.
[36:38.420 --> 36:43.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, the thing, Alex, is that actually, we started getting email about this almost immediately after the show last week.
[36:43.800 --> 36:47.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: They decided to just sort of pretend that never happened, and they wiped away the logo.
[36:47.820 --> 36:49.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah, are you kidding me?
[36:49.340 --> 36:50.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not there anymore.
[36:50.120 --> 36:50.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have no idea.
[36:50.400 --> 36:50.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's not...
[36:50.700 --> 36:53.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: Just like, just like the TIPS program, that's wiped away, too.
[36:53.500 --> 37:01.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: All the things that people come down against suddenly disappear, and it's as if they never happen, and I think that sort of sums up the mentality of the people behind them.
[37:01.980 --> 37:05.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, in a way, that's good, because TIPS was just like the IAO.
[37:06.020 --> 37:08.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, but you, you know, they're just going to try with something else.
[37:08.540 --> 37:13.560]  [SPEAKER_19]: They're just going to come up with a totally different, uh, you know, um, thing to, to spy on people with.
[37:13.660 --> 37:15.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: It might not be as, uh, as stupid.
[37:15.720 --> 37:25.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, before I forget, uh, I have the cryptome URL for, uh, the, the, what, the actual website that has the pictures of the, uh, of Point Dexter's house.
[37:25.000 --> 37:26.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, give the URL.
[37:26.360 --> 37:36.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's C-R-Y-P-T-O-M-E dot org slash T-I-A dash E-Y-E-B-A-L-L dot H-T-M.
[37:36.620 --> 37:42.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that has the aerial photos and, uh, phone number, address, and the phone numbers of, of, of his neighbors.
[37:42.780 --> 37:50.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, uh, supposedly, he either disconnected his phone or changed his phone number in the past few days that, uh, you can't reach him now.
[37:52.440 --> 37:54.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: Gee, well, we'll just have to find another one then, I guess.
[37:55.000 --> 37:56.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Wouldn't be, wouldn't be that hard.
[37:58.300 --> 37:58.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: Interesting.
[37:58.960 --> 38:09.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think, uh, what, uh, Point Dexter is, uh, is seeing is, is the wrath of people who don't like to have their privacy, uh, constantly invaded in the name of, uh, of government interests.
[38:10.060 --> 38:20.340]  [SPEAKER_19]: Um, speaking of which, there's also, um, plans to use more than a dozen automated surveillance cameras to keep eyes, to keep an eye on large demonstrations planned in the nation's capital next month.
[38:21.140 --> 38:25.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, there's an anti-war rally planned for, uh, the weekend of January 18th and 19th.
[38:26.060 --> 38:29.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: And there's also an anti-abortion rally planned for January 22nd.
[38:29.800 --> 38:38.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, uh, what's going to happen is, uh, the, the police are going to be using these automated surveillance cameras, um, in a way that they have not used it before.
[38:38.940 --> 38:48.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: Um, they say the major advantage is to deploy police resources if you see any problems developing, if you need more people in, in one place or fewer people in another place.
[38:48.980 --> 38:57.200]  [SPEAKER_19]: Um, and, uh, basically an ACLU spokesperson, uh, says, I don't think the police ought to be taking video of peaceful demonstrators when there's no hint of law-breaking.
[38:57.560 --> 39:07.460]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, during the, uh, the WEF protest in New York, uh, last spring, I remember the police were out in force with those little, uh, Sony and Canon, uh, mini-DV recorders.
[39:07.580 --> 39:10.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: And they were doing more filming than the demonstrators were, were, were, were filming.
[39:11.500 --> 39:19.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, it's, it's kind of disheartening to know that your face is being recorded into the authority's database someplace, even though all you're doing is standing there.
[39:19.880 --> 39:21.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: They, they have a record of you.
[39:21.600 --> 39:24.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I, I think that they intend to make that the norm rather than the exception.
[39:25.240 --> 39:35.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, uh, I mean, I guess you could always wear a mask within a lot of places that you, even in New York, I believe they have these anachronistic laws that say you can't wear it or you need a permit to wear a mask unless it's Halloween.
[39:35.840 --> 39:36.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: They've just changed that law.
[39:37.060 --> 39:38.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, have they just changed that?
[39:38.220 --> 39:38.220]  Yeah.
[39:38.260 --> 39:39.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: What's, what did they change it to?
[39:40.040 --> 39:41.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: I guess you don't need a permit now?
[39:41.620 --> 39:42.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, you can now wear a mask.
[39:43.120 --> 39:43.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: Wow.
[39:43.940 --> 39:44.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: Are you sure about this?
[39:44.820 --> 39:45.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: Mike, do you know about this?
[39:45.720 --> 39:46.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: I haven't heard.
[39:46.560 --> 39:57.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: The, the law I'm familiar with is if there's a group of three people or more are all wearing masks that in, in New York city, at least that's a, this made the major tabloid dailies, at least one of them, the post in the news in the last three weeks.
[39:57.860 --> 40:00.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, if it's in the major tabloid daily, it's gotta be true.
[40:01.640 --> 40:02.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's, that's handy.
[40:02.560 --> 40:05.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: Cause I do go around wearing a mask from time to time.
[40:05.220 --> 40:06.600]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's for cosmetic reasons.
[40:08.480 --> 40:10.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Do we want to try Bernie S again?
[40:10.440 --> 40:11.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just called him.
[40:11.440 --> 40:13.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: He is, uh, parking or doing something.
[40:13.760 --> 40:14.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: We will try him again later.
[40:14.920 --> 40:15.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[40:15.400 --> 40:16.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: We don't have very much of later left.
[40:16.940 --> 40:17.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: He knows that.
[40:17.940 --> 40:18.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[40:18.340 --> 40:19.480]  [SPEAKER_19]: But he made, he made it to the airport.
[40:19.640 --> 40:23.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: He's, he's at the airport in long-term parking for our, I don't know.
[40:23.160 --> 40:25.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: Does he really expect to fly out tonight?
[40:25.820 --> 40:29.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, I, I really will, we'll, we'll leave that to him.
[40:29.220 --> 40:30.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: We'll discover if he's a realist.
[40:31.340 --> 40:32.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: I should tell him to take the bus.
[40:32.900 --> 40:33.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[40:33.160 --> 40:34.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: So there's no, there's no buses leaving New York.
[40:35.000 --> 40:36.940]  [SPEAKER_19]: I assume there's no buses coming into New York either.
[40:37.180 --> 40:38.180]  [SPEAKER_19]: That wouldn't really help matters.
[40:38.780 --> 40:40.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, and I don't know about trains.
[40:40.140 --> 40:41.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: Any, any word on trains?
[40:41.140 --> 40:43.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I took the Long Island Railroad in here and it was fine.
[40:43.700 --> 40:45.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's about three minutes behind schedule.
[40:45.200 --> 40:45.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's about it.
[40:46.140 --> 40:50.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, it's funny here in Europe, weather is not a big deal.
[40:50.400 --> 40:52.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, I don't even hear weather reports.
[40:52.200 --> 40:55.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: You walk around and it starts snowing and you know what?
[40:55.100 --> 40:55.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: You deal with it.
[40:55.720 --> 40:56.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: You figure it out on the way.
[40:56.780 --> 41:00.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: You don't have to like, uh, you know, hoard food and, and, uh, panic and all that kind of thing.
[41:01.240 --> 41:02.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's something that people are used to.
[41:03.900 --> 41:04.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's true.
[41:04.500 --> 41:06.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, that's actually the way it is with snow in Vermont.
[41:06.500 --> 41:10.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I kind of freaked out when, when I, we got five inches of snow on the ground for the first time.
[41:10.340 --> 41:11.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: I didn't want to go out and drive the car.
[41:11.540 --> 41:13.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: And now I really, I really don't care at all.
[41:13.960 --> 41:16.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, we get, you know, eight inches of snow in one night and nobody cares.
[41:17.040 --> 41:18.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: The radio station doesn't even announce it.
[41:18.820 --> 41:21.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: They actually just say, well, there'll, there'll be snow in the mountains and rain in the valley.
[41:22.200 --> 41:24.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I actually haven't even have, I don't even know where I live.
[41:24.480 --> 41:25.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: It just really doesn't matter.
[41:25.700 --> 41:30.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know if I'm in the mountains or in the valley, but there's two places apparently in Vermont.
[41:30.460 --> 41:34.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's the mountains and the valley and sometimes we both get snow and sometimes we get snow and rain.
[41:34.060 --> 41:36.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you lose a lot of things not knowing where you live, huh?
[41:36.700 --> 41:38.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have no idea where I live.
[41:38.260 --> 41:38.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's wonderful.
[41:39.280 --> 41:40.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, interesting thing, too.
[41:41.260 --> 41:52.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: Our friend John Markoff has had a couple of very good articles in the New York Times and over here in the International Herald Tribune about Big Brother's prying tools and things like that.
[41:52.780 --> 41:56.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: I don't know if you guys caught the latest one, which is in the paper earlier this week.
[41:57.000 --> 42:06.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: But basically what it says is, in the Pentagon's research effort to detect terrorism by electronically monitoring a civilian population, the most remarkable detail may be this.
[42:06.320 --> 42:09.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: Most of the pieces of the system are already in place.
[42:09.340 --> 42:12.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: And what he means by that, he and John Schwartz co-wrote this article.
[42:13.300 --> 42:24.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: Basically there are all these little pieces of technology such as E-ZPass and ATM cameras, online shopping, cell phone networks, email, all kinds of things like that that already exist.
[42:24.200 --> 42:27.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: And all that has to be done now is to tie them together.
[42:27.540 --> 42:36.840]  [SPEAKER_19]: So you have this brain out there that is gathering information and learning things about people and sharing it amongst those who want to know.
[42:37.220 --> 42:39.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: And that's what total information awareness is going to be all about.
[42:40.360 --> 42:52.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, one of the most frightening things I think I ever saw was when you and I, a couple of years ago, we were driving into the city, we were on the Long Island Expressway, and you pointed out the cameras that were just lining the Long Island Expressway.
[42:52.340 --> 42:55.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: They can watch wherever the hell you want to go.
[42:55.460 --> 42:56.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: They can watch you.
[42:56.140 --> 42:59.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, those are the traffic cameras that the radio stations use.
[42:59.080 --> 43:08.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, the traffic cameras, like News 12, they can all use them, but I'm sure they can be used for purposes other than tracking traffic and weather and those kinds of things.
[43:08.340 --> 43:18.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, those actually are rather low-tech cameras, but they can make a lot more high-tech ones that can zoom in on faces and use face recognition technology and things like that.
[43:18.540 --> 43:20.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: You see all these things beginning.
[43:20.280 --> 43:29.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: You hear about the face recognition cameras at the Super Bowls, and, you know, you integrate that into the traffic system, and all of a sudden, you're able to monitor everybody.
[43:29.660 --> 43:37.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, you know, when the speed goes up, when you can monitor thousands of cars in, you know, a minute, you can't really hide.
[43:37.900 --> 43:38.680]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's going to be very difficult.
[43:40.400 --> 43:41.100]  [SPEAKER_05]: That it is.
[43:42.060 --> 43:43.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: How about we take some phone calls?
[43:43.620 --> 43:44.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why don't we do that?
[43:44.260 --> 43:46.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: The number here, 212-209-2900.
[43:46.980 --> 43:49.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, please don't disconnect me when you take the phone.
[43:49.020 --> 43:50.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: I really would appreciate that.
[43:50.800 --> 43:51.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Emmanuel, anything could happen.
[43:51.860 --> 43:52.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: And we'll hope.
[43:52.540 --> 43:53.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hope.
[43:53.160 --> 43:57.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you think there is a significant risk that I'll be disconnected, then...
[43:57.700 --> 43:59.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think you're going to be safe.
[43:59.260 --> 44:00.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: I honestly think you'll be safe.
[44:00.640 --> 44:01.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: We have confidence.
[44:01.520 --> 44:02.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: The callers may not be.
[44:02.860 --> 44:04.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: We can't promise that, but, uh...
[44:04.740 --> 44:05.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm taking no stand.
[44:05.880 --> 44:06.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello, you're on the air.
[44:08.840 --> 44:09.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello?
[44:09.520 --> 44:10.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: I think I heard something there.
[44:11.600 --> 44:12.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, try...
[44:12.400 --> 44:13.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that person's gone.
[44:14.020 --> 44:14.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're still there, right?
[44:14.980 --> 44:15.560]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm still here.
[44:15.680 --> 44:15.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[44:16.660 --> 44:17.720]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello, you're on the air.
[44:18.400 --> 44:19.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good evening, gentlemen.
[44:19.540 --> 44:20.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[44:20.120 --> 44:23.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: Welcome to this wonderful, snow-filled world.
[44:23.320 --> 44:23.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: How you doing?
[44:24.400 --> 44:25.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: If we're filled only with that.
[44:27.640 --> 44:28.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: That would be a wonderful place.
[44:28.940 --> 44:38.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just got the new issue, and I am happily reading it while sitting before the candles and enjoying a lovely Christmas alone.
[44:39.360 --> 44:40.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now, let me...
[44:40.240 --> 44:41.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: Can I ask you two questions?
[44:41.440 --> 44:41.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: Sure.
[44:41.740 --> 44:43.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, you say the new issue.
[44:43.340 --> 44:44.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: You mean $2,600?
[44:44.660 --> 44:46.820]  [SPEAKER_19]: $2,600, fall $2,002.
[44:46.820 --> 44:47.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[44:47.600 --> 44:49.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's not that new, but...
[44:49.300 --> 44:50.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: And then you said the candlelight.
[44:50.440 --> 44:51.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Does that mean you don't have power?
[44:51.740 --> 44:52.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, I have...
[44:52.440 --> 44:53.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I have plenty of power.
[44:53.560 --> 44:54.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: I just prefer the candles.
[44:55.040 --> 44:55.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, okay.
[44:55.500 --> 44:55.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Good for you.
[44:56.140 --> 44:56.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: You know.
[44:58.160 --> 45:04.260]  [SPEAKER_16]: Why pay money to a nuclear power agency to provide power when I can do that with beeswax?
[45:04.880 --> 45:05.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: Appropriate technology.
[45:05.920 --> 45:06.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: Appropriate technology.
[45:07.100 --> 45:08.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Low tech, but it always works.
[45:10.540 --> 45:15.200]  [SPEAKER_16]: I was very happy to read in the...
[45:15.780 --> 45:20.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: I believe it was your article in the front page, Emmanuel, about freedom's thought.
[45:20.660 --> 45:21.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh-huh.
[45:21.620 --> 45:22.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: Freedom's biggest enemy.
[45:23.040 --> 45:23.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: The editorial, yes.
[45:24.000 --> 45:24.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: I think it was very good.
[45:25.080 --> 45:34.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: And I'd also like to congratulate the several people who won the Ford lawsuit, I believe.
[45:35.140 --> 45:35.760]  [SPEAKER_19]: Ah, yes.
[45:35.940 --> 45:37.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Our lawsuit against...
[45:37.400 --> 45:39.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, Ford's lawsuit against us, which was not successful.
[45:40.460 --> 45:40.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[45:41.720 --> 45:42.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh...
[45:43.560 --> 45:43.920]  Um...
[45:43.920 --> 45:45.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: Say that, uh...
[45:45.860 --> 45:50.160]  [SPEAKER_16]: Emmanuel, the next time you're walking around Chinatown, be sure to say hello to me when I run into you.
[45:51.060 --> 45:51.420]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay.
[45:51.600 --> 45:52.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: Did I...
[45:52.040 --> 45:53.720]  [SPEAKER_19]: Are you the first time I ran into a Chinatown one?
[45:53.760 --> 45:54.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, I was.
[45:54.840 --> 45:56.240]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, that was a lot of fun.
[45:56.440 --> 45:57.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, it was.
[45:57.240 --> 45:57.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yes.
[45:57.760 --> 45:58.740]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, it was good running into you.
[45:58.740 --> 46:00.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: I work in that area, so it's really nice.
[46:00.560 --> 46:02.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm always in and out of all the stores all the time.
[46:03.120 --> 46:03.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh-huh.
[46:03.460 --> 46:04.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: There's some rather interesting things.
[46:05.000 --> 46:05.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: Great.
[46:05.440 --> 46:06.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: And you were at the conferences, too, right?
[46:06.800 --> 46:09.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, I was at H2K, too, and I H2K.
[46:10.280 --> 46:10.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[46:10.600 --> 46:11.600]  [SPEAKER_16]: And, uh, we'll be at the next one.
[46:11.940 --> 46:12.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: Anyway, gentlemen...
[46:12.300 --> 46:13.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: I hope that I'll be in 2004.
[46:14.320 --> 46:15.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Gentlemen, enjoy your evening.
[46:16.220 --> 46:16.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[46:16.840 --> 46:17.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[46:17.380 --> 46:17.660]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[46:17.740 --> 46:18.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for calling.
[46:18.160 --> 46:18.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
[46:19.060 --> 46:19.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[46:19.820 --> 46:21.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, we'll go over here.
[46:21.220 --> 46:21.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're on the air.
[46:22.480 --> 46:23.060]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, hi.
[46:23.320 --> 46:28.780]  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, could you give the website for where, you know, you could see the John Poindexter house and all that?
[46:28.900 --> 46:30.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't get the whole thing.
[46:30.880 --> 46:31.160]  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes.
[46:31.160 --> 46:31.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that URL?
[46:32.380 --> 46:32.620]  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[46:33.360 --> 46:34.720]  [SPEAKER_01]: Leo's looking at it somewhere.
[46:34.720 --> 46:35.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Cryptome.org.
[46:36.540 --> 46:38.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Cryptome.org.
[46:38.480 --> 46:39.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's spell Cryptome.
[46:39.520 --> 46:54.060]  [SPEAKER_01]: C-R-Y-P-T-O-M-E-dot-O-R-G-slash-T-I-A-dash-E-Y-E-B-A-L-L-dot-H-T-M.
[46:54.900 --> 46:55.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[46:55.360 --> 46:55.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks a lot.
[46:56.140 --> 46:56.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[46:56.580 --> 46:56.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: Have fun.
[46:57.200 --> 46:57.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
[46:58.580 --> 46:59.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[47:00.140 --> 47:01.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, hello, you're on the air.
[47:02.160 --> 47:02.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh.
[47:02.540 --> 47:03.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[47:03.700 --> 47:04.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[47:04.600 --> 47:04.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: Howdy.
[47:05.160 --> 47:05.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: Howdy.
[47:05.320 --> 47:05.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're there.
[47:05.940 --> 47:06.180]  [SPEAKER_04]: Good.
[47:07.360 --> 47:07.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: Where are you?
[47:08.140 --> 47:09.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: And turn your radio off.
[47:09.080 --> 47:10.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: I can hear it in the background.
[47:10.560 --> 47:10.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: My radio?
[47:10.960 --> 47:13.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to confuse you and annoy us.
[47:13.680 --> 47:14.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're annoyed?
[47:15.240 --> 47:17.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, we're not annoyed yet, but we'll get there.
[47:18.800 --> 47:20.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, let me think.
[47:22.100 --> 47:23.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I'm there already.
[47:23.500 --> 47:23.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[47:24.220 --> 47:24.740]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[47:24.900 --> 47:25.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, you're gone, buddy.
[47:26.180 --> 47:27.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, enough of that.
[47:27.400 --> 47:28.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's try this one.
[47:28.980 --> 47:29.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello?
[47:29.160 --> 47:29.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello?
[47:30.520 --> 47:31.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: He's gone.
[47:31.680 --> 47:33.020]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's the noise you don't hear over here.
[47:33.120 --> 47:34.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we can hear it again if you want.
[47:34.620 --> 47:35.300]  [SPEAKER_05]: What do you hear, though?
[47:35.560 --> 47:37.400]  [SPEAKER_05]: Let's hear this person instead.
[47:37.400 --> 47:37.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello?
[47:38.940 --> 47:40.320]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, Emmanuel, everybody.
[47:40.500 --> 47:42.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: Could you please turn off your radio?
[47:42.620 --> 47:44.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: I wish you the best of a season.
[47:45.620 --> 47:46.780]  [SPEAKER_20]: I just want...
[47:47.360 --> 47:48.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: We can't hear a word you're saying, buddy.
[47:48.980 --> 47:49.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: You're breaking up.
[47:49.740 --> 47:50.960]  [SPEAKER_20]: The feedback is killing us.
[47:50.960 --> 47:51.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're dying.
[47:51.940 --> 47:53.900]  [SPEAKER_20]: Just one thing...
[47:54.360 --> 47:55.120]  [SPEAKER_20]: We can't hear a word.
[47:55.420 --> 47:57.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're coming in and out, and the feedback is killing us.
[47:57.640 --> 47:57.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Sorry.
[47:57.920 --> 48:00.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're going to try this person.
[48:00.120 --> 48:01.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: Use a standard telephone, people.
[48:02.640 --> 48:04.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: This is a word of advice to the callers.
[48:04.080 --> 48:06.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: Use standard telephones that are government-approved.
[48:07.920 --> 48:09.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello, you're on the air.
[48:10.180 --> 48:10.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, hi.
[48:10.620 --> 48:11.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: Just a word about the masquerading law.
[48:12.300 --> 48:13.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was...
[48:13.040 --> 48:14.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's no new law.
[48:14.340 --> 48:23.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: What happened was the law was actually struck down on appeal in a case where basically the Ku Klux Klan challenged the masquerading law, and they got it struck down.
[48:24.120 --> 48:25.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's still on appeal, so...
[48:25.800 --> 48:30.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, it may be appealed further, so it may be reinstated, but for now there's no masquerading law in New York.
[48:30.520 --> 48:35.140]  [SPEAKER_19]: So you're saying that we could walk around with paper bags over our heads after the show and no one's going to bother us?
[48:35.320 --> 48:36.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I do that all the time.
[48:36.740 --> 48:41.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, what the law actually says, there's no guarantee that anyone won't ever bother you, but that's the law at least.
[48:42.620 --> 48:45.040]  [SPEAKER_05]: So this is a victory for the Klan and the rest of us.
[48:45.120 --> 48:45.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's mildly disturbing.
[48:46.200 --> 48:47.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: I guess they're good for something.
[48:47.260 --> 48:50.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: A little ironic when the Klan is the best in a free speech in America, but hey.
[48:51.000 --> 48:52.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Who brought the Klan into it?
[48:52.480 --> 48:53.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: I mean, you know, it's basically...
[48:54.040 --> 48:55.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: They sued, I believe.
[48:56.200 --> 48:56.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, they did.
[48:56.520 --> 49:00.120]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, well then they did something good for a change, but that's it, you know.
[49:00.500 --> 49:04.160]  [SPEAKER_19]: Everybody else should take advantage of the fact that they can be anonymous.
[49:04.160 --> 49:10.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you're for free speech, which includes anonymity, you have to be for free speech you disagree with as well as that you agree with.
[49:11.260 --> 49:23.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, for the same token, the pro-choice movement set back free speech which by a lot of the stuff that they've set down by clinic access laws has had a lot of really disturbing applications to other protest activities.
[49:23.380 --> 49:23.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: I agree.
[49:24.020 --> 49:26.100]  [SPEAKER_19]: Enforcing the RICO statute and all that?
[49:26.400 --> 49:26.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[49:26.860 --> 49:27.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: I've heard that too.
[49:28.500 --> 49:34.060]  [SPEAKER_19]: And by the same token, the pro-life people, the so-called pro-life people in D.C.
[49:34.140 --> 49:37.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: are being targeted by those same cameras as the anti-war people.
[49:37.280 --> 49:39.640]  [SPEAKER_19]: So, it's something where everybody has to stand up together.
[49:40.760 --> 49:41.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: At least I'm not.
[49:42.100 --> 49:42.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm not, definitely.
[49:43.300 --> 49:44.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: And let's move on to the next caller.
[49:45.200 --> 49:45.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, thank you.
[49:46.340 --> 49:47.360]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's go.
[49:47.480 --> 49:48.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, this person's here.
[49:48.500 --> 49:48.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: Is on the air.
[49:48.900 --> 49:49.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[49:50.580 --> 49:51.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello, you are on the air.
[49:51.680 --> 49:52.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know that.
[49:52.860 --> 49:53.400]  [SPEAKER_20]: Yes, hi.
[49:53.880 --> 49:54.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: How are you?
[49:54.520 --> 49:54.820]  [SPEAKER_20]: You hear me?
[49:55.060 --> 49:56.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, we can hear you.
[49:56.080 --> 49:56.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're on the air.
[49:57.020 --> 50:02.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: All right, well, I'm just wondering if the story of my being denied freedom of speech...
[50:02.540 --> 50:02.920]  [SPEAKER_20]: Monroe!
[50:03.280 --> 50:03.760]  [SPEAKER_20]: Not again!
[50:04.160 --> 50:04.200]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's been so long.
[50:04.200 --> 50:06.880]  [SPEAKER_20]: Oh, you are such a long reach.
[50:07.260 --> 50:09.300]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hey, listen, I'm not kidding around.
[50:09.680 --> 50:11.640]  [SPEAKER_20]: Freedom of speech is freedom of speech.
[50:11.820 --> 50:13.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: When are you ever kidding around?
[50:13.480 --> 50:14.840]  [SPEAKER_20]: Well, I can kid around.
[50:15.040 --> 50:16.440]  [SPEAKER_20]: Believe me, I can kid around.
[50:16.760 --> 50:17.420]  [SPEAKER_20]: Look, kid around.
[50:17.500 --> 50:23.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: The thing is, it was denied by the guy who might have been governor of New York State if Pataki had died.
[50:24.360 --> 50:25.260]  [SPEAKER_20]: This would be who?
[50:25.340 --> 50:25.600]  [SPEAKER_20]: Lewis.
[50:26.660 --> 50:42.520]  [SPEAKER_20]: And he has no qualms, and I don't like it that the station doesn't even do anything about freedom of speech to explain to people that you should be respected when you speak, and that the fact that you may, whoever the host is doesn't agree or doesn't want to do...
[50:42.520 --> 50:44.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: This is a politeness issue.
[50:44.620 --> 50:46.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: Let me just break in here for a second.
[50:47.420 --> 50:49.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: I brought up about Bloomberg smoking pot.
[50:49.680 --> 50:50.280]  [SPEAKER_20]: No, listen, listen.
[50:50.580 --> 50:53.300]  [SPEAKER_19]: Monroe, none of this is anything we're talking about on our radio show.
[50:53.400 --> 50:54.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: Do you have anything to talk about...
[50:54.280 --> 50:55.180]  [SPEAKER_20]: We're talking about freedom of speech.
[50:55.180 --> 50:57.660]  [SPEAKER_20]: How can you say it's nothing about what you talk about?
[50:57.720 --> 51:00.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: Because we're on a particular radio show talking about particular subjects.
[51:00.680 --> 51:02.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: Do you have anything to share in regards to that?
[51:02.500 --> 51:08.980]  [SPEAKER_20]: And sharing with you the fact that the people even on WBAI don't understand what freedom of speech entails.
[51:08.980 --> 51:11.940]  [SPEAKER_20]: It's more than just opening your mouth and making sounds.
[51:12.160 --> 51:16.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, but that's not what we're talking about tonight, so please try to keep it within the confines of our show.
[51:16.600 --> 51:18.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: Otherwise, what's the point of having a show?
[51:18.660 --> 51:22.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: What do you think freedom of speech means then when you use those terms, those words?
[51:22.660 --> 51:24.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: It means hanging up the phone right now.
[51:24.920 --> 51:26.000]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, next call.
[51:26.000 --> 51:29.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, but it means we've got to keep some kind of subject matter in hand.
[51:29.780 --> 51:31.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, we're going to take this person.
[51:31.600 --> 51:32.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're on the air.
[51:33.960 --> 51:34.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello?
[51:35.720 --> 51:36.400]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I hear you.
[51:36.400 --> 51:37.100]  [SPEAKER_04]: Get to the phone.
[51:37.320 --> 51:37.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: There you are.
[51:38.460 --> 51:41.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: The anti-abortion activists have been blocking clinics.
[51:42.100 --> 51:43.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: They've been using the Catholic Church.
[51:43.900 --> 51:50.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: They probably have this thing on the 22nd to make life impossible for women who want to get an abortion.
[51:51.680 --> 51:55.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're making it possible for people to go out and shoot doctors.
[51:56.040 --> 51:56.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[51:56.600 --> 51:56.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[51:56.940 --> 51:57.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're here, man.
[51:57.720 --> 52:01.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's making it possible for doctors who work in these clinics to get shot.
[52:01.200 --> 52:03.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: We're looking for a hacking or free speech?
[52:03.980 --> 52:05.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: These people are Hello?
[52:05.800 --> 52:07.600]  [SPEAKER_19]: Yeah, but what does this have to do with the cameras?
[52:08.520 --> 52:16.320]  [SPEAKER_02]: You mentioned you brought up you did bring up the fact that you said you wanted to align with people protesting at abortion.
[52:16.820 --> 52:17.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's ridiculous.
[52:18.120 --> 52:19.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Sounds like a right-wing position.
[52:20.300 --> 52:21.800]  [SPEAKER_19]: That is what we're saying.
[52:22.920 --> 52:24.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: That is exactly what you said.
[52:24.800 --> 52:25.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: That's what I said.
[52:25.540 --> 52:26.220]  [SPEAKER_19]: You didn't hear us, Sam.
[52:26.360 --> 52:28.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: We're saying that technology used...
[52:28.080 --> 52:31.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, well maybe you're talking over other people which is why you don't hear what they're saying.
[52:31.720 --> 52:36.520]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, we say technology used against people is wrong regardless of what their position is.
[52:36.600 --> 52:44.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: If you use these spy cameras to get their faces if they're in a so-called pro-life rally or an anti-war rally, it's wrong either way.
[52:44.320 --> 52:45.260]  [SPEAKER_19]: That is all we said.
[52:45.260 --> 52:51.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have no crocodile peers for right-wing terrorists going out and shooting doctors at you.
[52:51.780 --> 52:54.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, when they come to you, there will be no way to stick to you.
[52:57.740 --> 52:58.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello?
[52:58.420 --> 53:00.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, he must have turned his radio on.
[53:00.420 --> 53:01.880]  [SPEAKER_04]: We'll go to another call, please.
[53:01.880 --> 53:04.280]  [SPEAKER_19]: This is the problem when people blind themselves with rhetoric like this.
[53:04.380 --> 53:05.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: There was another freedom of speech issue.
[53:05.820 --> 53:08.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: That person not only blinded himself but perhaps tried to deafen us.
[53:10.240 --> 53:11.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's try again.
[53:11.620 --> 53:13.360]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, you there?
[53:13.540 --> 53:14.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: We're here.
[53:15.160 --> 53:17.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: It bothers me when people, you know...
[53:17.860 --> 53:19.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: You're enjoying the dial tone.
[53:19.740 --> 53:21.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: Stop the dial tone, please.
[53:21.200 --> 53:21.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: I just want to say one thing.
[53:22.120 --> 53:29.340]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think it's important that people, you know, not look at the issue as to what somebody stands for when it's something that affects everybody.
[53:29.650 --> 53:32.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: You know, oppression is evil if it's used in any direction.
[53:33.150 --> 53:40.500]  [SPEAKER_19]: You have to look beyond your beliefs, what you stand for, and sometimes stand up for people you strongly disagree with.
[53:41.040 --> 53:43.440]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think that's something that, you know, most people get.
[53:44.960 --> 53:46.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: I totally agree with you.
[53:46.840 --> 53:52.110]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's nothing wrong with aligning with right-wing conservatives, you know, if it's in the name of freedom of speech.
[53:53.240 --> 53:54.880]  [SPEAKER_19]: Now, are we going to try Bernie one more time?
[53:54.900 --> 53:55.920]  [SPEAKER_19]: We are in the middle of doing that.
[53:55.920 --> 53:57.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: It's actually happening right now.
[53:57.400 --> 53:59.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: All right, because he's really running out of time here.
[53:59.160 --> 54:00.080]  [SPEAKER_19]: He wanted to do the whole show.
[54:00.230 --> 54:00.620]  [SPEAKER_19]: I know.
[54:00.620 --> 54:02.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the beads of sweat that are running down Michael's face.
[54:03.160 --> 54:03.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[54:04.520 --> 54:05.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: We may have something.
[54:06.360 --> 54:06.980]  [SPEAKER_04]: Let's see.
[54:07.190 --> 54:08.540]  [SPEAKER_19]: I have to figure out how to work this.
[54:09.080 --> 54:10.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody has to figure something out.
[54:10.900 --> 54:11.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, my God.
[54:12.000 --> 54:13.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: More phone trouble over here.
[54:13.500 --> 54:15.780]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, I'm still on the air, so at least that's working.
[54:16.020 --> 54:18.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: You're still on the air, but have we got Bernie anywhere?
[54:19.190 --> 54:19.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: Bernie, yes.
[54:20.190 --> 54:21.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hello, this is Bernie.
[54:21.520 --> 54:21.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bernie!
[54:22.280 --> 54:23.280]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, there he is.
[54:24.000 --> 54:24.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: Congratulations.
[54:25.190 --> 54:26.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bernie, where are you?
[54:26.280 --> 54:32.150]  [SPEAKER_17]: I am navigating huge piles of snow through the long-term parking area of Newark International.
[54:32.400 --> 54:38.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: In fact, the past 10, 15 minutes, Jeff and I have had a police escort, believe it or not.
[54:38.120 --> 54:41.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: First time police actually escorted me without being in handcuffs.
[54:43.780 --> 54:45.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they escorted us to...
[54:45.660 --> 54:50.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: All the parking lots were full, so they took us to one that they knew there was a couple of spots, but it was still marked full.
[54:51.600 --> 54:53.190]  [SPEAKER_17]: And we're just trying to park now.
[54:53.300 --> 55:02.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: Unfortunately, we will not be able to get through airport security while we're on the phone because that's like eight minutes from now is the end of the show.
[55:03.060 --> 55:03.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: That was the goal.
[55:04.600 --> 55:06.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: So weather kind of screwed us up here.
[55:07.500 --> 55:10.770]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I'm wondering, are you going to even make it off the ground tonight?
[55:12.340 --> 55:16.190]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, Jeff checked a couple hours ago and he said that most of the...
[55:16.190 --> 55:19.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: Our plane is actually on the ground already and other planes are departing.
[55:20.300 --> 55:22.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: So they've had plenty of time to de-ice these things.
[55:23.700 --> 55:25.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, wasn't it...
[55:25.280 --> 55:27.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Didn't it just start snowing a few hours ago?
[55:27.800 --> 55:28.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so...
[55:28.620 --> 55:30.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: So if it's still snowing, maybe...
[55:30.280 --> 55:32.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe the situation's changed, that's all we're saying.
[55:37.680 --> 55:39.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: But there's definitely more than an inch.
[55:39.360 --> 55:43.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm looking at these cars here and there's at least a couple inches of snow on these things.
[55:43.800 --> 55:46.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: Bernie, I'll relate a quick story of how bad it was.
[55:46.190 --> 55:48.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: It took me six hours from Atlantic City to New York.
[55:49.120 --> 55:49.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: And there's lightning.
[55:50.660 --> 55:51.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I noticed that.
[55:52.690 --> 55:53.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't see any lightning.
[55:54.160 --> 55:55.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: I had noticed some.
[55:56.270 --> 55:57.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: But we were on the train.
[55:57.060 --> 56:00.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: We're told that there's no buses leaving New York and how long that's going to last for us.
[56:00.610 --> 56:06.000]  [SPEAKER_19]: I don't know how planes can take off if buses can't move, but they do amazing things up there.
[56:07.160 --> 56:08.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: That is a little frightening.
[56:08.700 --> 56:12.650]  [SPEAKER_03]: So anything else new in the world of hacking and freedom, Bernie?
[56:13.700 --> 56:17.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, I'm hoping I can hack my way through airport security.
[56:17.380 --> 56:22.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: By the way, I have an Altoids box for myself and for Jeff.
[56:22.770 --> 56:24.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: You know, you really shouldn't say these things on the air.
[56:25.150 --> 56:26.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, we can talk about Altoids.
[56:26.610 --> 56:29.400]  [SPEAKER_19]: I have my Altoid box and they didn't open it.
[56:29.520 --> 56:31.860]  [SPEAKER_19]: They put it in a little tray and made it go through.
[56:32.480 --> 56:34.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I don't know if you can see what's in there.
[56:34.580 --> 56:37.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: Was your Altoids box on your person or was it in your bag?
[56:37.770 --> 56:38.660]  [SPEAKER_19]: It was in my pocket.
[56:38.840 --> 56:43.320]  [SPEAKER_19]: I put it in that little thing they give you to put change and keys in.
[56:44.400 --> 56:46.040]  [SPEAKER_19]: I don't know what happened at that point.
[56:46.230 --> 56:50.700]  [SPEAKER_19]: I will say that the inspectors are now federal and you can really tell the difference.
[56:51.160 --> 56:54.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: You don't have Burger King employees groping you and things like that.
[56:54.580 --> 56:57.380]  [SPEAKER_19]: You have professional people with badges groping you now.
[56:58.240 --> 56:59.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's why I go to Burger King.
[56:59.300 --> 57:00.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: I enjoy the groping.
[57:01.440 --> 57:02.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Altoids story.
[57:02.040 --> 57:06.000]  [SPEAKER_03]: My sister recently flew back to San Francisco, had an Altoids box in her bag.
[57:06.120 --> 57:07.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: It took them an hour to find it.
[57:09.020 --> 57:10.110]  [SPEAKER_03]: They were looking for it all that time?
[57:10.230 --> 57:13.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, something was setting off the detector and it took them an hour to find it.
[57:14.650 --> 57:15.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: Did she miss her plane?
[57:15.880 --> 57:16.270]  [SPEAKER_01]: No.
[57:16.270 --> 57:16.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's good.
[57:18.400 --> 57:18.980]  [SPEAKER_19]: That's something.
[57:19.200 --> 57:20.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: Shall we...
[57:20.230 --> 57:22.690]  [SPEAKER_19]: Do you want to try taking phone calls with somebody on the air?
[57:22.820 --> 57:23.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: Might as well take more calls.
[57:24.120 --> 57:24.900]  [SPEAKER_19]: We even have time.
[57:25.060 --> 57:26.580]  [SPEAKER_19]: We have about five minutes.
[57:27.240 --> 57:30.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now let's hope that both of you two stay on the air.
[57:30.560 --> 57:31.700]  [SPEAKER_04]: Go ahead, take a call.
[57:31.900 --> 57:32.340]  [SPEAKER_04]: I dare you.
[57:32.660 --> 57:32.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[57:33.190 --> 57:33.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hello.
[57:35.110 --> 57:35.840]  [SPEAKER_04]: Somebody's on the air.
[57:36.730 --> 57:37.610]  [SPEAKER_17]: Bernie Etch is still here.
[57:37.700 --> 57:38.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[57:38.300 --> 57:39.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, we're going to get...
[57:39.380 --> 57:41.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: No, we had them and we lost them.
[57:42.080 --> 57:42.800]  [SPEAKER_05]: Next caller.
[57:43.060 --> 57:45.160]  [SPEAKER_05]: Claude, who is in the studio, sounds like he's on the phone.
[57:45.320 --> 57:46.650]  [SPEAKER_05]: People need to speak up.
[57:46.880 --> 57:47.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello.
[57:47.840 --> 57:48.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're on the air now.
[57:48.900 --> 57:55.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sir, can you please give me your website one more time for the John big head?
[57:55.620 --> 57:57.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, this is the last time.
[57:57.080 --> 57:58.240]  [SPEAKER_03]: Cryptome.org.
[57:58.340 --> 57:59.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, it's not only Cryptome.
[57:59.880 --> 58:04.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's C-R-Y-P-T-O-M-E dot org.
[58:04.540 --> 58:07.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Slash T-I-A dash...
[58:07.160 --> 58:10.520]  [SPEAKER_04]: T-I-A, which stands for Total Information Awareness, right?
[58:10.660 --> 58:11.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: You did it so fast.
[58:12.190 --> 58:12.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sorry.
[58:12.940 --> 58:13.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[58:13.280 --> 58:13.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Slow down a bit.
[58:14.320 --> 58:22.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: C-R-Y-P-T-O-M-E P-C-O-M-E dot...
[58:22.540 --> 58:23.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: O-R-G.
[58:23.560 --> 58:25.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: O-R-G slash...
[58:25.460 --> 58:27.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: Search for T-I-A at that point.
[58:27.110 --> 58:34.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: T-I-A dash E-Y-E-B-A-L-L dot H-C-M.
[58:34.200 --> 58:35.110]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's enough.
[58:35.340 --> 58:35.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank you.
[58:36.120 --> 58:36.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[58:36.660 --> 58:37.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Thanks for calling.
[58:38.040 --> 58:38.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're gonna...
[58:38.580 --> 58:39.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: Why do I sound...
[58:39.880 --> 58:41.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: The most time we've...
[58:41.240 --> 58:42.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: The most time we've spent...
[58:42.480 --> 58:42.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's fine.
[58:48.710 --> 58:49.590]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh-oh.
[58:50.410 --> 58:51.130]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm here.
[58:51.670 --> 58:52.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm here, but I hear a sound.
[58:55.850 --> 58:56.710]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, that was fun.
[58:57.110 --> 58:57.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: That was great.
[58:59.270 --> 59:00.150]  [SPEAKER_17]: What was that?
[59:00.610 --> 59:03.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think, Bernie, that was feedback on your phone.
[59:03.550 --> 59:03.990]  [SPEAKER_17]: Really?
[59:04.070 --> 59:05.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: I've never had feedback on my phone.
[59:05.390 --> 59:07.130]  [SPEAKER_17]: I think that's what happens when we have...
[59:10.190 --> 59:11.590]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't think that's my phone.
[59:12.790 --> 59:14.190]  [SPEAKER_19]: This is information warfare.
[59:17.050 --> 59:17.890]  [SPEAKER_17]: Somebody's screwing with me.
[59:18.110 --> 59:18.510]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well...
[59:18.510 --> 59:20.070]  [SPEAKER_17]: That was Admiral Poindexter.
[59:21.350 --> 59:22.230]  [SPEAKER_17]: Are we all back?
[59:22.730 --> 59:23.130]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well...
[59:23.130 --> 59:23.490]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm here.
[59:23.950 --> 59:24.690]  [SPEAKER_04]: All right, let's...
[59:24.690 --> 59:27.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, our educated phone guests are back.
[59:28.050 --> 59:28.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: Not all the mics are.
[59:29.650 --> 59:30.310]  Not in a while.
[59:31.690 --> 59:35.930]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, well, I don't know if we want to take any more phone calls or if we just want to start...
[59:35.930 --> 59:37.250]  [SPEAKER_19]: Oh, it's a lot of phone calls.
[59:37.470 --> 59:38.190]  [SPEAKER_03]: 7.57.
[59:38.530 --> 59:39.010]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's...
[59:39.010 --> 59:39.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not back.
[59:39.470 --> 59:40.730]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, we have to start moving out then.
[59:40.730 --> 59:41.530]  [SPEAKER_19]: How come I'm not back?
[59:41.770 --> 59:42.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: We really don't have time.
[59:43.210 --> 59:44.850]  [SPEAKER_19]: Their personal computer show is up next, right?
[59:45.190 --> 59:45.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Quite.
[59:45.990 --> 59:46.210]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, sir.
[59:46.210 --> 59:47.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: I sure hope they have some luck.
[59:48.330 --> 59:48.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[59:49.710 --> 59:50.870]  [SPEAKER_19]: The omens are not...
[59:50.870 --> 59:52.410]  [SPEAKER_19]: I know they know how to make phone calls.
[59:52.490 --> 59:53.170]  [SPEAKER_19]: I've seen them do it.
[59:54.870 --> 59:56.590]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're such technical smarties.
[59:57.590 --> 01:00:00.490]  [SPEAKER_19]: So, anyway, next week I'll be here in Amsterdam.
[01:00:00.650 --> 01:00:02.210]  [SPEAKER_19]: I think, Bernie, you'll be back by then, right?
[01:00:02.570 --> 01:00:04.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'm coming back New Year's Eve.
[01:00:04.550 --> 01:00:05.990]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, so you'll be back by next week.
[01:00:06.150 --> 01:00:06.890]  [SPEAKER_19]: I'll still be here.
[01:00:07.010 --> 01:00:08.550]  [SPEAKER_19]: Well, I'll be back here, actually, after going to Berlin.
[01:00:09.490 --> 01:00:11.810]  [SPEAKER_19]: That sounds like the theme, which means it's time for us to get out of here.
[01:00:12.590 --> 01:00:15.310]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I want to thank everybody for being part of the show.
[01:00:15.830 --> 01:00:17.290]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good to be back in WBAI.