Off The Hook - 2003-07-16

[00:00.000 --> 00:01.160]  [SPEAKER_07]: As the U.S.
[00:01.260 --> 00:06.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: economy lurchers towards freefall, and its manufacturing jobs flee south across the U.S.
[00:06.980 --> 00:19.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: border, as cities and states slash essential services, does it seem reasonable that an American president will rush to help Africans when America faces such serious challenges?
[00:19.560 --> 00:25.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Like a lion silently stalks its prey, is how Bush stalks the African veldt.
[00:25.620 --> 00:29.080]  [SPEAKER_07]: He comes, not to give, but to get.
[00:29.540 --> 00:32.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: From death row, this is Mumia Abu-Jamal.
[00:34.480 --> 00:38.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: These commentaries are produced by Noelle Hanrahan for Prison Radio.
[00:38.840 --> 00:46.000]  [SPEAKER_00]: Free Speech Radio News is produced at Pacifica Station's KPFA in Berkeley, California, and WBAI in New York City.
[00:46.160 --> 00:47.320]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Jackson Allers.
[00:50.650 --> 00:53.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI in New York.
[00:54.270 --> 01:01.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: The program normally heard at this time that was scheduled to be preempted is going to be aired instead.
[01:02.510 --> 01:05.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: And if that confuses you, you have not been paying attention.
[01:07.210 --> 01:08.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, Off the Hook is on.
[01:11.090 --> 01:15.570]  [SPEAKER_05]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:16.530 --> 01:21.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[01:21.730 --> 01:26.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
[01:26.650 --> 01:29.290]  [SPEAKER_05]: Von Diddley Bom, but the best is back from worst.
[01:29.950 --> 01:31.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: I hope that's understood.
[01:31.990 --> 01:32.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: Von Diddley Bom!
[02:35.980 --> 02:39.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: Ah, sometimes it's just nice to listen to the whole theme play through.
[02:39.880 --> 02:42.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Kind of like, you know, being glad you're alive.
[02:43.200 --> 02:44.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I'm glad we're on.
[02:45.100 --> 02:48.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, we announced last week, because that's what we were told, but we weren't going to be on.
[02:48.200 --> 02:51.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, of course, the plans got changed, I believe, yesterday.
[02:52.240 --> 02:53.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: A little more time than I thought we'd have.
[02:54.500 --> 02:58.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: But we're here, and thanks to everybody for their support.
[02:59.280 --> 03:01.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: Off the Hook, for the next hour, talking about high tech and all that kind of thing.
[03:02.560 --> 03:03.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: Emmanuel here.
[03:03.300 --> 03:04.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Jeff, you're over there.
[03:04.080 --> 03:05.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: Mike, for some reason, decided to go out for refreshments, right?
[03:05.920 --> 03:06.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, he'll be back.
[03:06.840 --> 03:06.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Red Hack.
[03:07.180 --> 03:08.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Red Hack, you're over there.
[03:08.460 --> 03:08.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: What's up?
[03:08.780 --> 03:09.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: How you doing?
[03:10.020 --> 03:10.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, let's see.
[03:10.720 --> 03:12.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: What do we have?
[03:13.680 --> 03:14.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bernie S.
[03:14.260 --> 03:15.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: is on the phone, too, from Philadelphia.
[03:15.880 --> 03:16.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bernie, are you there?
[03:16.320 --> 03:16.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, I am.
[03:16.680 --> 03:17.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: How you doing?
[03:17.480 --> 03:18.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hey, pretty good.
[03:18.500 --> 03:19.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ankle is healing nicely.
[03:19.660 --> 03:21.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll be on two feet in about a week.
[03:21.980 --> 03:23.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: You'll be on two feet in a week?
[03:23.420 --> 03:24.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, well, that's good.
[03:24.240 --> 03:24.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's fine.
[03:25.380 --> 03:27.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we'll see you over in Germany, I assume?
[03:27.540 --> 03:30.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I sure hope, because the doctor gave me a thumbs up yesterday, so...
[03:30.760 --> 03:31.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, all right.
[03:32.080 --> 03:34.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: You guys really got to get your airfare together.
[03:35.500 --> 03:38.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: We figured we'd do it like you and get tickets at the last minute.
[03:39.140 --> 03:40.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: I got my tickets two weeks ago, so...
[03:40.960 --> 03:42.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, but normally you get them at the last minute.
[03:42.760 --> 03:42.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[03:43.320 --> 03:44.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, well, there's ways of doing that.
[03:45.040 --> 03:51.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I imagine people who know this kind of thing might want to email us so that we can help get Jeff and Bernie S.
[03:51.900 --> 03:58.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think Laszlo, too, over to Germany for the Chaos Congress takes place on August 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th.
[03:58.480 --> 04:02.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you listen to our show last week, you'll hear all kinds of information from some of the organizers of that conference.
[04:02.520 --> 04:03.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's going to be a lot of fun.
[04:03.460 --> 04:07.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I'm going to be traveling all over the place to various countries.
[04:07.240 --> 04:09.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: In fact, just yesterday I got my visa from Russia.
[04:10.800 --> 04:11.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: It didn't come from Russia.
[04:11.700 --> 04:13.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: It came from the embassy here in the States.
[04:13.760 --> 04:14.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it's amazing.
[04:14.840 --> 04:16.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: They give you all this paperwork.
[04:16.500 --> 04:18.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: They stamp a page onto your passport.
[04:19.760 --> 04:23.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: Of course, I still have to get one from Belarus, which is another country that used to be part of the Soviet Union.
[04:23.740 --> 04:27.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: They stapled a page to your passport as well with the sticker.
[04:27.300 --> 04:30.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: And you have to carry around two other full-page documents.
[04:30.460 --> 04:31.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: Full-page, and I have to have copies of those, too.
[04:32.540 --> 04:34.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because they'll probably be stolen at some point.
[04:34.440 --> 04:34.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's what I'm told.
[04:35.360 --> 04:35.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, yeah.
[04:36.100 --> 04:37.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, they tell you that up front.
[04:37.880 --> 04:39.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, these probably will be stolen.
[04:40.140 --> 04:42.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just be glad that you're on.
[04:42.320 --> 04:42.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wait a minute.
[04:42.560 --> 04:43.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Your microphone's not on.
[04:43.340 --> 04:43.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: There you go.
[04:43.760 --> 04:46.440]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, just be glad that you're not a Russian trying to visit the U.S.
[04:46.480 --> 04:48.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Imagine the amount of papers you'd have to carry.
[04:48.240 --> 04:50.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I imagine it would be pretty difficult.
[04:51.080 --> 04:51.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Pretty difficult.
[04:52.260 --> 04:57.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: But it's kind of fun to go through all the paperwork and standing in lines.
[04:58.040 --> 05:00.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: Not that I've had to stand in any lines yet, but I know I will.
[05:00.680 --> 05:04.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, how many of the actual countries you're traveling to have required you to fill out all this paperwork?
[05:05.000 --> 05:05.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Only two.
[05:05.660 --> 05:06.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: Only those two?
[05:06.020 --> 05:06.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: Russia and Belarus.
[05:07.100 --> 05:11.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: I guess all CIS countries, all former republics of the Soviet Union.
[05:11.920 --> 05:14.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Actually, not Lithuania, not Latvia, not Estonia.
[05:14.640 --> 05:16.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Those ones, not a problem.
[05:16.360 --> 05:18.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: I guess all the ones that have Cyrillic alphabet.
[05:18.420 --> 05:20.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: It seems like that's the case over there.
[05:21.340 --> 05:28.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's going to be interesting because not only will I be going through a country not knowing a single word of a language like I usually do, but I won't even know the alphabets.
[05:29.040 --> 05:30.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's really going to be fun.
[05:30.740 --> 05:33.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: But no, I intend to try to learn something about it before I head over there.
[05:33.500 --> 05:48.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: And if there are any listeners in the countries of Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, that crazy part of Russia called Kaliningrad, Finland, Russia, of course, Belarus, and the Czech Republic, please contact me.
[05:48.580 --> 05:50.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Emmanuel at 2600.com.
[05:50.560 --> 05:56.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe we can, you know, hang out together in your city, whatever that might be, your country.
[05:56.700 --> 05:57.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: It would be interesting to see.
[05:57.660 --> 05:59.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I know there are meetings in various parts.
[05:59.860 --> 06:07.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to be at the Paris meeting in August and the Prague meeting in September, which is a brand new meeting, Prague, in the Czech Republic.
[06:07.880 --> 06:09.720]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are you going to try and make this your sofa tour?
[06:10.820 --> 06:11.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Sofa tour?
[06:11.440 --> 06:15.740]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, you can meet enough people, you sleep on the sofas, and you have to pay for a hotel.
[06:15.980 --> 06:16.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's true, that's true.
[06:16.900 --> 06:17.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: Better food?
[06:17.720 --> 06:20.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: People say, you know, this must be really... it's not that expensive.
[06:20.560 --> 06:21.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: It really isn't.
[06:21.200 --> 06:23.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, airfare is the most expensive part of this whole thing.
[06:23.100 --> 06:25.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: To travel, but once you're actually there, you have to find somewhere to crash.
[06:25.720 --> 06:27.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, yeah, but that's usually not too hard.
[06:27.780 --> 06:28.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: It really isn't too hard.
[06:28.680 --> 06:32.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: And even if you stay in a hotel, they're not that expensive, especially in Eastern Europe.
[06:33.140 --> 06:34.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: But enough about that.
[06:34.400 --> 06:35.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's what's going to be happening.
[06:35.620 --> 06:38.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: The show is going to be kind of interesting, I guess, over the weeks.
[06:38.320 --> 06:42.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: Next week, I guess, will be a normal show, but the week after that is when things start to get a little crazy.
[06:42.740 --> 06:46.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I guess for the next six weeks after that, that's when I'm going to be wandering around.
[06:46.880 --> 06:49.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, wait, the EU countries didn't have you file paperwork, right?
[06:49.540 --> 06:50.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, no, no EU country.
[06:50.720 --> 06:52.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's interesting, because Finland is in the EU.
[06:53.840 --> 06:56.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Lithuania is going to join the EU, I believe, next year.
[06:56.940 --> 07:04.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, this makes a very strange kind of situation for the people in Kalengrat, which is that strange part of Russia I was talking about a few weeks ago.
[07:04.560 --> 07:06.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's detached from the rest of Russia.
[07:06.120 --> 07:09.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's next to Lithuania.
[07:10.440 --> 07:13.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: The thing is, those people obviously aren't in the EU.
[07:13.480 --> 07:14.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Lithuania will be in the EU.
[07:15.000 --> 07:20.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: For people to go from Kalengrat to the rest of Russia, they have to travel through Lithuania.
[07:20.780 --> 07:26.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: They're going to have to get a transit visa from the EU to visit people in their own country.
[07:26.540 --> 07:27.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Every time?
[07:27.240 --> 07:27.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: Every time.
[07:28.580 --> 07:34.480]  [SPEAKER_12]: Actually, Lithuania wanted to give them a visa-free zone, but the EU didn't want to go for that.
[07:34.660 --> 07:36.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: And they have the final say, apparently.
[07:38.020 --> 07:44.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Imagine if you wanted to visit somebody in Chicago and you had to get a transit visa permission from, say, Mexico or something like that.
[07:44.340 --> 07:45.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: It would be...
[07:45.520 --> 07:48.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, people are naturally a bit upset.
[07:49.180 --> 07:50.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you have friends in Alaska.
[07:50.680 --> 07:51.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: Mm-hmm.
[07:51.280 --> 07:53.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you have friends in Alaska, you need to make friends with Canadians.
[07:54.820 --> 07:55.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I guess you're right about that.
[07:55.940 --> 07:58.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, you know, yeah, I guess that's a good point.
[07:58.540 --> 07:59.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: You could take a boat.
[07:59.500 --> 08:01.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: But you don't have to get a visa to go through Canada.
[08:01.340 --> 08:02.220]  [SPEAKER_12]: You don't have to get permission.
[08:02.380 --> 08:03.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: You don't have to go through the border.
[08:03.760 --> 08:06.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, you know, like sometimes, like we proved, you can get turned away.
[08:07.120 --> 08:07.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[08:07.940 --> 08:10.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, you know, it does happen.
[08:10.660 --> 08:10.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[08:10.860 --> 08:12.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you need a transit visa?
[08:12.180 --> 08:12.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hang on.
[08:12.600 --> 08:13.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: I got...
[08:13.020 --> 08:13.720]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's your mic over there.
[08:13.820 --> 08:13.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sorry.
[08:14.320 --> 08:16.540]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do you need a transit visa even if you're flying over?
[08:17.280 --> 08:18.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: That I don't know.
[08:18.640 --> 08:19.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: That I don't know.
[08:19.840 --> 08:20.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll try to find out.
[08:20.740 --> 08:22.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: How big is this space?
[08:22.520 --> 08:23.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Was it like a couple miles?
[08:23.720 --> 08:24.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is it...
[08:24.560 --> 08:25.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: What?
[08:25.120 --> 08:25.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: The country?
[08:25.700 --> 08:25.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[08:27.520 --> 08:28.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, Kalengrat is...
[08:28.880 --> 08:30.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's, you know, it's not huge, but it's, you know...
[08:30.840 --> 08:32.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: I like to point to it on the map.
[08:32.480 --> 08:38.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: If people have a map, look at the map just to the west of Lithuania and you'll see this little tiny sliver and the whole thing is just called Russia.
[08:39.480 --> 08:41.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: I tell people, look how tiny Russia is.
[08:41.520 --> 08:42.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Why are we so afraid of them all these years?
[08:43.780 --> 08:47.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, you know, at least three people haven't questioned that, which I find to be amazing.
[08:48.160 --> 08:48.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[08:48.680 --> 08:49.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: Moving on.
[08:50.160 --> 08:51.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Last time we...
[08:51.860 --> 08:56.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: I believe we left it where we were registering the New York Times to be on the National Do Not Call Registry.
[08:56.300 --> 08:56.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Remember that?
[08:57.500 --> 09:01.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the question was raised as to whether or not, because they were a business, whether we'd be able to do that.
[09:01.400 --> 09:02.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, it went through.
[09:02.320 --> 09:03.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: It went through and they are registered.
[09:04.300 --> 09:05.280]  [SPEAKER_12]: The registration is complete.
[09:05.880 --> 09:08.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: 2-1-2-5-5-6-1-2-3-4 is the number for the New York Times.
[09:09.180 --> 09:13.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I added them into the Do Not Call Registry to kind of demonstrate what a silly system this is.
[09:13.480 --> 09:25.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: And now, if the New York Times wants to get telemarketers calling them, they're going to have a tough time because they have to prove that they're me, I guess, because I'm the one that registered them not to get it.
[09:26.520 --> 09:29.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: So the challenge is out to anybody out there who wants to deregister them.
[09:30.120 --> 09:30.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Go ahead.
[09:30.620 --> 09:34.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Go to donotcall.gov and enter that phone number and try to deregister them and see how much luck you have.
[09:36.460 --> 09:40.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: We're going to continue trying to play little games with this system because I just don't think it's going to work.
[09:40.580 --> 09:42.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's a really silly kind of system.
[09:44.540 --> 09:45.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: We have this list.
[09:46.100 --> 09:47.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: It came from the Wall Street Journal.
[09:47.160 --> 09:48.780]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if anybody here reads the Wall Street Journal.
[09:49.880 --> 09:50.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: Every day.
[09:50.760 --> 09:51.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bernie, you might get a kick out of this.
[09:52.240 --> 09:53.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: In fact, I think we'll all get a kick out of this.
[09:53.920 --> 09:58.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: They printed a list of 800 numbers and the quickest way to get to an operator from them.
[09:59.420 --> 10:00.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Always a challenge.
[10:00.400 --> 10:00.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[10:00.760 --> 10:01.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, you guys want to pick a company?
[10:02.060 --> 10:03.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: They have most of the major ones here.
[10:03.720 --> 10:03.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: Anyone?
[10:04.640 --> 10:04.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: Verizon.
[10:11.880 --> 10:12.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: T, T-Mobile.
[10:13.080 --> 10:13.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, Verizon Wireless.
[10:14.080 --> 10:14.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[10:14.400 --> 10:14.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, no.
[10:14.840 --> 10:15.780]  [SPEAKER_03]: Verizon, not wireless.
[10:15.880 --> 10:16.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[10:16.100 --> 10:16.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, they don't have that.
[10:16.740 --> 10:18.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: But Verizon Wireless, they give the number.
[10:18.140 --> 10:19.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: But you know what they say after it?
[10:19.120 --> 10:20.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: No easy escape.
[10:20.640 --> 10:23.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: So you pick one that's actually very difficult.
[10:23.500 --> 10:25.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: I actually had to call a number the other day.
[10:26.000 --> 10:27.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't remember which one.
[10:27.240 --> 10:33.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I had to go through about three or four menus before I actually got an operator option, which is quite...
[10:33.660 --> 10:35.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, well, that's actually typical these days.
[10:35.520 --> 10:36.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: It really is.
[10:36.220 --> 10:37.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let's pick another company.
[10:37.760 --> 10:38.120]  [SPEAKER_12]: WBAI.
[10:38.240 --> 10:38.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: No.
[10:39.040 --> 10:39.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: Serious.
[10:39.780 --> 10:40.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Seriously here.
[10:40.800 --> 10:41.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: GM.
[10:41.980 --> 10:45.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, you know, they don't have all the companies in the country here.
[10:45.080 --> 10:45.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's a big one.
[10:45.940 --> 10:49.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, major credit card, computer, phone companies, airlines, maybe.
[10:49.400 --> 10:49.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Capital One.
[10:50.040 --> 10:51.020]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's the one I had to go through.
[10:51.520 --> 10:52.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Capital One.
[10:52.240 --> 10:53.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, they have Bank of America.
[10:53.980 --> 10:54.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know what?
[10:54.600 --> 10:55.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is getting nowhere.
[10:55.480 --> 10:56.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm just going to pick one.
[10:57.280 --> 10:59.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: How about Sprint?
[11:00.000 --> 11:00.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, Sprint PCS.
[11:00.980 --> 11:01.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think we've done this.
[11:01.860 --> 11:03.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: You hit zero twice, then say agent.
[11:03.660 --> 11:04.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: How about Visa?
[11:04.980 --> 11:05.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, Visa is here.
[11:07.400 --> 11:08.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, interesting.
[11:08.860 --> 11:13.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: You call Visa, you hit zero three times, ignore prompts saying that it's invalid entry.
[11:14.060 --> 11:15.960]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, okay, that sounds good.
[11:15.960 --> 11:16.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: I can ignore some prompts.
[11:17.020 --> 11:17.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let's get a dial tone.
[11:18.880 --> 11:20.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: And let's call the number.
[11:27.460 --> 11:28.540]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, let's see what happens.
[11:32.990 --> 11:34.930]  [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Visa Assistance Center.
[11:35.250 --> 11:37.290]  [SPEAKER_01]: To continue in English, press one now.
[11:37.410 --> 11:38.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you've got to hit...
[11:38.130 --> 11:40.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: That is an invalid option.
[11:40.310 --> 11:40.410]  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[11:40.690 --> 11:41.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please try your selection again.
[11:41.930 --> 11:42.170]  [SPEAKER_01]: Two.
[11:42.170 --> 11:44.710]  [SPEAKER_01]: Please hold while your call is transferred to a customer...
[11:44.710 --> 11:45.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: Only two.
[11:45.690 --> 11:45.990]  Oh.
[11:46.250 --> 11:46.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: Only two.
[11:47.050 --> 11:48.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe you would...
[11:48.510 --> 11:48.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[11:49.150 --> 11:53.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, well, obviously, we're on hold there for an agent.
[11:53.270 --> 11:56.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Of course, we don't know how long it's going to take to get an agent, but...
[11:56.010 --> 11:58.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: There were some pretty arcane sequences in there, too.
[11:59.090 --> 11:59.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Weren't there, Emmanuel?
[11:59.570 --> 12:00.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, yeah, yeah.
[12:01.610 --> 12:02.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: There are some, uh...
[12:02.610 --> 12:04.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Something that wouldn't be obvious, like hitting zero, zero.
[12:04.650 --> 12:06.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, some really interesting combinations to get out.
[12:06.990 --> 12:07.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, okay, here's...
[12:07.810 --> 12:08.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Here's...
[12:08.530 --> 12:09.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Here's...
[12:09.330 --> 12:10.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, we've tried that many times.
[12:10.450 --> 12:10.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, okay.
[12:11.030 --> 12:12.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, Chase is, uh...
[12:12.210 --> 12:12.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: An interesting one.
[12:14.510 --> 12:15.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: You have to, uh...
[12:15.650 --> 12:17.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, I've got to spell out the word Chase here.
[12:19.530 --> 12:20.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then, uh, two, four.
[12:21.910 --> 12:22.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: You...
[12:22.710 --> 12:27.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: You hit five, you pause, then you hit one, four, star, and zero.
[12:27.990 --> 12:29.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let's see, let's see if that works.
[12:31.650 --> 12:32.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Welcome to Chase.
[12:32.930 --> 12:33.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: Five.
[12:34.150 --> 12:35.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, now I'm paused.
[12:35.190 --> 12:38.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: Welcome to Chase, where the right relationship is everything.
[12:38.330 --> 12:38.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now I hit one.
[12:39.270 --> 12:40.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please choose from the following.
[12:41.150 --> 12:41.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now I hit four.
[12:42.390 --> 12:43.450]  [SPEAKER_09]: To order checks.
[12:43.710 --> 12:44.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now I hit star.
[12:46.250 --> 12:47.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: And now I hit zero.
[12:47.830 --> 12:49.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Please hold for customer service.
[12:49.270 --> 12:49.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: It works!
[12:50.030 --> 12:50.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah!
[12:50.270 --> 12:51.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: Or may be monitored.
[12:51.310 --> 12:52.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, that's amazing.
[12:52.790 --> 12:54.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: In order for us to serve you...
[12:54.350 --> 12:55.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, no, you're not going to serve me.
[12:55.990 --> 12:57.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, okay, that's, uh...
[12:57.410 --> 12:58.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's pretty cool.
[12:58.290 --> 12:59.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Amtrak is, is a good one, though.
[12:59.770 --> 13:01.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, you just hit zero or say agent.
[13:01.710 --> 13:02.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: That, that's always worked for me.
[13:03.030 --> 13:03.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know?
[13:04.230 --> 13:05.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: FedEx has worked really well.
[13:06.030 --> 13:11.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: But today I called FedEx, and they annoyed me because you used to just have to hit star, and instantly you got a person.
[13:11.630 --> 13:14.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: And now you, you get a recording when you hit star.
[13:14.610 --> 13:16.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: And you have to hit star a few times.
[13:16.610 --> 13:18.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: It eventually works, but it's a lot more annoying.
[13:19.370 --> 13:20.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, okay, so that's, uh...
[13:20.950 --> 13:22.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, maybe we'll call some more of those later if people have suggestions.
[13:22.830 --> 13:30.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: I found with, uh, with many companies, if you say the word representative, not just print PCS, but other companies, if you say the word representative, it kicks you to a rep.
[13:30.930 --> 13:31.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[13:31.930 --> 13:35.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that's, uh, that's a good policy, if only it could be, uh, universally installed.
[13:35.770 --> 13:37.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, let's look at some listener mail.
[13:37.870 --> 13:44.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, here in Colorado, when you call a T-Mobile phone, uh, you can hear slightly different rings while the call is connected.
[13:44.370 --> 13:44.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: I've noticed this.
[13:45.130 --> 13:52.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: The first ring style sounds slightly staticky and has an uneven pace that would suggest that it is a looped recording of a ring.
[13:53.130 --> 13:57.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, then you'll be switched to the normal clearer ring right before you're sent to voicemail.
[13:57.350 --> 14:02.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: To me, it sounds like T-Mobile plays a recording of a ring while it tries to find the phone you're calling.
[14:02.550 --> 14:06.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: And once that times out, you're sent to the voicemail system, which makes an actual ring.
[14:06.430 --> 14:08.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: Does anybody else know anything about this sign, Bob?
[14:08.590 --> 14:13.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, Bob, I've noticed, uh, many times when, when you're about to connect to voicemail that the ring changes.
[14:14.030 --> 14:15.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a different, uh, uh, cadence.
[14:16.450 --> 14:18.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, it's, it's, it's out of sequence.
[14:18.730 --> 14:24.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, but the interesting part that you brought up was the staticky ring at first, which, yeah, very well could be a bad recording of a ring.
[14:25.990 --> 14:30.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's, it's not like the old days, you know, where rings actually sounded different, but, um, you know, it's something.
[14:31.250 --> 14:32.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, let's see.
[14:33.650 --> 14:36.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: In the 7-9 episode of Off the Hook, Bernie S.
[14:36.450 --> 14:45.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: expressed a concern about his cell phone number becoming available to the call E when he calls an 800 number and that he uses a calling card to solve this.
[14:45.750 --> 14:58.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: Cell phones generally do not give true ANI, but rather give pseudo-ANI, known as P-A-N-I, uh, because the P-A-N-I number can, can, uh, be attached to a location where the true cell phone number cannot.
[14:59.270 --> 15:03.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: The P-A-N-I number is dependent on the cell tower you are talking to when you place the call.
[15:03.870 --> 15:06.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: As a Sprint PCS user, I can confirm that this is how it works.
[15:07.150 --> 15:09.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: Caller ID, however, is passed correctly.
[15:10.130 --> 15:11.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bernie, any comments on this?
[15:11.790 --> 15:18.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, well, I didn't want to roll the dice depending on, uh, what tower, uh, may or may not pass my, uh, my info.
[15:19.070 --> 15:27.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I would rather spend three cents a minute to protect my, uh, privacy and, uh, call, uh, call toll-free numbers without revealing my identity.
[15:27.770 --> 15:27.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[15:28.170 --> 15:32.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Speaking of, uh, uh, three cents a minute, I've been looking into ways to, um, to call overseas.
[15:32.810 --> 15:34.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I found some very interesting things.
[15:34.510 --> 15:35.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Mike, you found some interesting things, too.
[15:36.170 --> 15:40.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, from, from prepaid calling cards that cost, you know, pennies a minute.
[15:40.430 --> 15:43.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we're talking, you know, calling Poland and Russia and places like that.
[15:43.770 --> 15:44.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: No surcharge.
[15:44.950 --> 15:45.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: 800 numbers.
[15:45.830 --> 15:50.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: You can program an 800 number to go to any foreign number you want for about 10 cents a minute.
[15:50.790 --> 16:02.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, so, uh, I'm, I'm trying to figure out ways that people can reach me while I'm over there and ways, obviously, at the radio station can reach me while I'm over there without having to, uh, you know, run up this huge bill on my cell phone, which now charges for incoming calls unlike,
[16:02.750 --> 16:04.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: you know, the last few years when it didn't.
[16:04.830 --> 16:12.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, so, um, any information on that, people, uh, are welcome to send us, O-T-H at 2600.com because it's, um, it's a changing technology.
[16:12.670 --> 16:13.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: It really is.
[16:13.350 --> 16:16.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: It used to be really expensive to call certain places and now it's really, really cheap.
[16:17.090 --> 16:20.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, you know, it has you looking for, you know, the loopholes.
[16:20.690 --> 16:23.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I was looking at the prices and saying to myself, what's the catch?
[16:23.450 --> 16:24.710]  [SPEAKER_14]: Voice over IP, probably.
[16:24.710 --> 16:25.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: It could be.
[16:25.530 --> 16:25.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: It could be.
[16:26.070 --> 16:30.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, uh, you know, you have to, uh, you have to wonder is voice over IP such a bad thing these days?
[16:31.450 --> 16:32.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
[16:32.710 --> 16:33.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, more letters.
[16:35.190 --> 16:35.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let's see.
[16:35.670 --> 16:36.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: We have so many letters.
[16:36.710 --> 16:37.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, okay.
[16:37.330 --> 16:39.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: This person, uh, has, has something suspicious happen to them.
[16:39.870 --> 16:42.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: I found something odd this morning while driving to work.
[16:42.710 --> 16:47.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: I noticed a neutral blue Crown Victoria, the model of the police cruisers in my town.
[16:47.450 --> 16:50.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: I thought this to be normal because the Crown Vic isn't all that rare.
[16:50.510 --> 16:58.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: However, when I looked closer, I noticed there was a cage in the back, much like that of a, of a police cruiser and it had Ohio State Government plates on it.
[16:58.430 --> 17:02.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, the typical white background with red text, no flash and flare at all.
[17:02.270 --> 17:04.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Otherwise, it had no other markings to indicate its purpose or origin.
[17:05.150 --> 17:07.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: I didn't find seeing this, uh, vehicle all that strange.
[17:07.890 --> 17:12.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, uh, after all, you see various government-owned Crown Vic's driving around all the time.
[17:12.030 --> 17:14.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: However, it got slightly stranger.
[17:14.070 --> 17:23.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: When I turned the corner and looked behind me, I noticed a Dodge Caravan behind me of the same neutral blue color with a similar but much, uh, larger cage behind the driver.
[17:24.010 --> 17:31.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, the only difference in style between the Caravan and the Crown Vic was that the Caravan had some fashion of a yellow light on top.
[17:31.210 --> 17:36.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know yellow means that this is a utility vehicle, but what utility vehicle would have cages like that in the back?
[17:36.370 --> 17:39.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't mean to start conspiracy theories, but I just found this strange.
[17:39.230 --> 17:41.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: Perhaps this is some homeland security issue.
[17:41.350 --> 17:41.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Who knows?
[17:41.990 --> 17:42.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: I found it interesting, though.
[17:43.690 --> 17:44.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, well...
[17:44.330 --> 17:44.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: Isn't that...
[17:45.590 --> 17:47.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: Isn't that just an unmarked car?
[17:48.010 --> 17:49.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, with a...
[17:49.090 --> 17:50.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: with a light on top.
[17:50.450 --> 17:50.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, yeah.
[17:51.110 --> 17:51.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[17:51.230 --> 17:51.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: The cage in the back?
[17:52.010 --> 17:52.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: What's the cage for?
[17:53.230 --> 17:53.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: What's the cage for?
[17:53.990 --> 17:55.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's the driver's security.
[17:55.730 --> 17:56.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Against what?
[17:56.630 --> 17:57.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Whatever they put in the back.
[17:57.910 --> 17:58.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: What could they put in the back?
[17:58.850 --> 17:59.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Lawn motors.
[18:00.350 --> 18:01.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: Enemies of the state?
[18:01.310 --> 18:02.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, you know, anything's possible, I suppose.
[18:03.090 --> 18:05.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: I was thinking, when I read this, I was thinking, you know, some sort of animal control, maybe.
[18:06.270 --> 18:07.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, maybe this is like the dog catcher.
[18:07.950 --> 18:08.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
[18:08.290 --> 18:10.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, the van would be for bear?
[18:10.830 --> 18:11.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Mm-hmm.
[18:12.150 --> 18:13.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's all kinds of possibilities.
[18:13.250 --> 18:19.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, you know, the best way is just to, I guess, make a note of the license plate if you really want to or follow the vehicle around and see what it does.
[18:20.130 --> 18:21.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's nothing wrong with that.
[18:21.170 --> 18:27.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: People think there's, you know, that you're going to get in trouble if you look at, you know, authority figures and see what they do.
[18:27.710 --> 18:30.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, you know, you're kind of obligated to find out what's going on out there.
[18:30.750 --> 18:36.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was a highly suspicious vehicle here in Philadelphia about three weeks ago that Shapeshifter called me about.
[18:36.290 --> 18:36.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, yeah?
[18:36.730 --> 18:41.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was a Department of Homeland Security surveillance van.
[18:41.690 --> 18:41.970]  Mm-hmm.
[18:42.370 --> 18:43.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it was really decked out.
[18:44.070 --> 18:46.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was really one of these big panel trucks.
[18:46.670 --> 18:48.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it was right after I broke my ankle.
[18:48.530 --> 18:51.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: So I hobbled up there nonetheless and took a look at this thing.
[18:51.810 --> 18:58.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it was set up with all kinds of satellite uplinks and downlinks and a big mast with surveillance cameras on the top of it.
[18:58.850 --> 19:01.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: And they had video conferencing systems.
[19:01.690 --> 19:05.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: I actually was able to social engineer engineer my way into this thing.
[19:06.110 --> 19:13.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the company who made it for the Department of Homeland Security was there demonstrating it for some gathering of law enforcement people.
[19:13.210 --> 19:19.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: They invited me in and one of the things that this van does is interoperability.
[19:20.130 --> 19:21.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: So a whole bunch of...
[19:21.430 --> 19:32.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: suppose some emergency happens and a bunch of law enforcement agencies descend on the area and they can't talk to each other because the radios are all incompatible, which is very common.
[19:32.070 --> 19:43.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: So what this thing does is it has this big matrix switch that converts all the protocols from the different radio systems to each other and supposedly everybody can talk to each other.
[19:43.290 --> 20:00.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: It also is a mobile cell site so they can pull into some area that doesn't have cell service or the cell service is broken down and pass out a bunch of cell phones and the satellite uplink and everybody can talk on their cell phones.
[20:00.810 --> 20:07.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: So it did a lot of stuff and it cost like $2 million or something and it was pretty impressive.
[20:08.770 --> 20:10.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's a good deal, $2 million for all that.
[20:11.290 --> 20:12.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a bargain.
[20:13.110 --> 20:13.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[20:13.510 --> 20:17.450]  [SPEAKER_15]: Bernie, don't you think we could have put something together like that at Dayton for about, what, $1.5?
[20:19.450 --> 20:21.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: Probably for about one-tenth of that price.
[20:21.830 --> 20:21.970]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[20:23.350 --> 20:26.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Actually, there were some vans like that for sale that the Dayton had been
[20:31.450 --> 20:33.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: on the subject of watching the authorities.
[20:33.730 --> 20:35.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if you guys saw this story.
[20:35.230 --> 20:35.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's kind of interesting.
[20:35.970 --> 20:37.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: This guy named William Sheehan, you know about him?
[20:38.170 --> 20:39.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: He doesn't like the police.
[20:40.050 --> 20:50.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: He expresses his views about what he calls police corruption in Washington State on his website where he posts lists of police officers' addresses, home phone numbers and social security numbers.
[20:50.710 --> 20:50.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh!
[20:51.070 --> 21:05.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, state officials say those postings expose officers and their families to danger and invite identity theft, but neither litigation nor legislation has stopped Mr. Sheehan who promises to expand his site to include every police and corrections officer in the state by the end of the year.
[21:05.830 --> 21:23.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: He says he obtains the information lawfully from voter registration, property, motor vehicle and other official records but his provocative use of personal data raises questions about how the law should address the dissemination of accurate publicly available information that is selected and made accessible in a way that may facilitate the invasion of privacy,
[21:23.310 --> 21:24.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: computer crime, even violence.
[21:25.430 --> 21:27.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: and I don't know, I'm kind of torn on this one.
[21:27.930 --> 21:28.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: What do you guys think?
[21:28.850 --> 21:31.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: If they can do it to us, why can't we do it to them?
[21:31.850 --> 21:32.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, do they do it to...
[21:32.490 --> 21:36.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: Do they post our names, social security numbers, phone numbers, addresses on a website?
[21:37.030 --> 21:40.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: No, they give it to businesses which make it even more detrimental.
[21:41.090 --> 21:46.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that's true, but if this guy was giving police officers names and addresses to businesses, I don't think there'd be a story about it.
[21:47.350 --> 21:50.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: He's doing something a lot more advertising and...
[21:50.730 --> 21:58.910]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think what he's trying to do is let people know what can happen, how easy this information is to be out there and officers and...
[21:59.410 --> 22:05.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, well, you know, I just, in a sense, I feel that, you know, these people could be targeted very obviously by...
[22:05.790 --> 22:12.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: Whenever you have a list of people, you know, and an implication that these are bad people, all kinds of...
[22:12.570 --> 22:13.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: All kinds of things can happen.
[22:13.050 --> 22:14.510]  [SPEAKER_15]: Is that an implication that they're bad people?
[22:14.510 --> 22:16.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, look at the guy who says he doesn't like cops.
[22:16.630 --> 22:17.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
[22:17.230 --> 22:17.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: I haven't seen his website.
[22:18.130 --> 22:21.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Interestingly enough, the website is not given anywhere in the story, so I can't look at it myself.
[22:22.130 --> 22:25.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: But I just have the feeling that people go there and get this information.
[22:25.470 --> 22:27.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: They might cause mischief.
[22:27.150 --> 22:27.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's possible.
[22:27.810 --> 22:33.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, that's no reason to outlaw anything, obviously, but it's just you have to wonder, you know, where this could wind up going.
[22:33.670 --> 22:45.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: I mean, it allows people, these people, to be targeted by possible enemies that they have through their work who might not, under normal circumstances, know how to find that information.
[22:45.490 --> 22:57.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: See, I think the 2600 approach to this would be to show how easy it is to get the information and post that and say, look, this is how you do it and this can be done with anybody.
[22:58.030 --> 23:03.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then the people that have the intelligence to go out and do some investigation, if they want to investigate a cop or something like that, they can do it.
[23:03.350 --> 23:04.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: They can get that information.
[23:04.490 --> 23:05.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: But the end is still the same.
[23:06.450 --> 23:06.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: So...
[23:07.170 --> 23:08.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, no, it's not as easy.
[23:09.230 --> 23:11.550]  [SPEAKER_15]: It's just, you've just given them another hoop to jump through.
[23:11.890 --> 23:24.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: But people who actually have the skill to, you know, to enter the right information, know what they're looking for, they're the ones that are going to find the information rather than just handing out a list to people saying, look, these are people, have fun,
[23:24.650 --> 23:25.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: you know?
[23:25.530 --> 23:26.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: He has a double standard.
[23:27.070 --> 23:27.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[23:27.430 --> 23:30.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, this guy doesn't have his name and address and social security number on here.
[23:30.450 --> 23:33.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I wonder what would happen if that got posted, which it probably has.
[23:34.030 --> 23:35.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a pronounced double standard, though.
[23:36.050 --> 23:58.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: The Pentagon recently announced their terrorism information awareness program, which is going to use all kinds of public databases like the Big Three Credit Brewers, TransUnion, Experian, and Equifax to get all kinds of sales information and magazine subscriptions and all that other sort of stuff to compile patterns and crack terrorists,
[23:58.530 --> 23:58.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: supposedly.
[23:59.210 --> 24:19.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, if you have access to Experian, TransUnion, or Equifax, and you try to do a search for, say, a federal law enforcement agent, say, someone in the Secret Service, for instance, and I haven't done this personally, so nobody get excited, but I have a good authority that if you try to do this,
[24:20.750 --> 24:36.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: the information will not come up, but it will flag some alarm at that credit bureau, and you'll get a phone call quite quickly, or you'll be contacted quite quickly, or visited quite quickly, as to the purpose of your search.
[24:36.990 --> 24:47.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, federal agents and probably state and local law enforcement agents, I'm not sure about that, have more privacy than the rest of us, and I have a problem with that double standard.
[24:49.370 --> 24:53.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I'm sure many people do.
[24:55.230 --> 24:55.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, go ahead.
[24:56.010 --> 24:57.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: I don't know if this is the first time this has happened, though.
[24:58.010 --> 25:03.670]  [SPEAKER_13]: I remember a case a few years ago where there was a listing on a website of all the abortion doctors in a certain state.
[25:03.670 --> 25:10.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: I was trying to think, I don't remember what happened to the website, but I remember, I mean, that was intended to do harm to those doctors.
[25:10.430 --> 25:12.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: And they had, they had like a check mark next to the ones that had been killed.
[25:12.910 --> 25:15.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, I'm saying that's the kind of mentality that is, you know, attractive.
[25:15.930 --> 25:18.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: Obviously, you can get a listing doctors.
[25:18.610 --> 25:22.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: You can find, you know, people who perform abortions.
[25:22.950 --> 25:30.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's not very difficult to do, but when you post a list like that, especially with a check mark next to them, it invites some things and I'm just a little wary of that.
[25:31.690 --> 25:32.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's what bothers me about this.
[25:34.650 --> 25:36.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, we've all heard about the Google thing by now.
[25:36.710 --> 25:37.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Do we need to talk about this?
[25:37.870 --> 25:40.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: We talked about it on the other show a few weeks ago, but basically...
[25:40.430 --> 25:43.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: Google, silly word, I've never heard it.
[25:43.390 --> 25:51.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, no, I mean, we know what Google is, but if you type in weapons of mass destruction and hit I feel lucky on that, you get the funny mock error page.
[25:51.190 --> 25:52.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, we all have a copy of it.
[25:52.770 --> 25:54.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: These weapons of mass destruction cannot be displayed.
[25:55.370 --> 25:57.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: The weapons you are looking for are currently unavailable.
[25:57.450 --> 26:01.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: The country might be experiencing technical difficulties or you may need to adjust your weapons inspector's mandate.
[26:03.110 --> 26:05.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it even made the front page of CNN today.
[26:05.830 --> 26:07.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's been out there for quite some time.
[26:07.990 --> 26:13.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's this guy named Anthony Cox over in England who runs mock web pages.
[26:13.570 --> 26:21.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: He actually, according to the news story, he also has a story or a gag about the New York Times and their whole plagiarism scandal.
[26:22.110 --> 26:23.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: They don't give the website address.
[26:23.650 --> 26:25.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: If anybody has that website address, I'd like to know what it is.
[26:26.290 --> 26:31.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Apparently, you can go there and see a New York Times spoof page also designed to look like an error message.
[26:31.430 --> 26:37.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: It contains an event story link that leads to an article about Jason Blair, the Times reporter at the center of the scandal.
[26:37.830 --> 26:39.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: You guys heard about Jason Blair, right?
[26:39.650 --> 26:39.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, of course.
[26:39.810 --> 26:40.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: I can't believe that.
[26:40.690 --> 26:42.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, you know, the New York Times has...
[26:42.170 --> 26:45.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, it's not the first time we've seen a New York Times reporter make up stories, that's for sure.
[26:46.450 --> 26:51.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: But in this particular case, the guy really just went out to fool everybody and he's not apologetic about it.
[26:51.750 --> 26:53.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: He's like, well, you know, I had problems.
[26:53.390 --> 26:54.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I'm going to write a book about it now.
[26:54.650 --> 26:55.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm going to be famous.
[26:55.690 --> 26:58.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, you know, completely, you know, it blows off any kind of criticism.
[26:59.110 --> 27:03.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: It reminds me of that guy that, remember the New Republic story about hackers years ago?
[27:04.270 --> 27:07.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, this guy in the New Republic wrote a story.
[27:07.130 --> 27:07.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bernie, you remember this, right?
[27:08.190 --> 27:09.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: He just made it up at a whole clause.
[27:09.710 --> 27:11.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: Made it up, the National Hacker Congress.
[27:11.590 --> 27:18.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: He made up this group of lobbyists that were there for the hackers and how they had all this power and corporations were trembling.
[27:20.270 --> 27:22.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the whole thing, you know, we read it.
[27:22.490 --> 27:26.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: Every hacker that knows what's going on read this thing and said, that's utter crap.
[27:26.750 --> 27:31.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Of course, the New Republic, which has a good reputation for printing the truth, they didn't check.
[27:31.650 --> 27:32.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: They didn't check with people who knew.
[27:33.330 --> 27:35.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: And their reputation was forever damaged by that.
[27:35.670 --> 27:37.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the guy, yeah, the guy turned out to be a complete liar.
[27:37.850 --> 27:43.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the reason they believed him was because they asked him, is this true?
[27:43.210 --> 27:43.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: And he said yes.
[27:43.930 --> 27:45.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that was their fact-checking.
[27:45.410 --> 27:47.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: That was how they checked facts.
[27:47.130 --> 27:48.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: They asked a reporter, is this true?
[27:48.890 --> 27:52.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: They never thought for once that this guy might be lying, might be making things up.
[27:52.990 --> 27:59.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: This sounds like the same kind of fact-checking that's used in our judicial system when police are asked if something really happened.
[28:00.070 --> 28:02.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, but that's how stories get out in the media.
[28:03.030 --> 28:05.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's all kinds of mistruths being printed all the time.
[28:06.110 --> 28:07.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: The fact-checking just isn't there.
[28:07.670 --> 28:11.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that's why people have to ask questions all the time and look for those sources.
[28:11.350 --> 28:13.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: Look for when they say something.
[28:13.830 --> 28:18.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Like, for instance, when they say that there's weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, ask for the evidence.
[28:18.030 --> 28:19.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe you won't get into a war.
[28:19.670 --> 28:20.210]  You know?
[28:20.830 --> 28:23.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: If more people had asked for evidence, we wouldn't be in the situation we're in right now.
[28:23.950 --> 28:25.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: What was the article about?
[28:26.230 --> 28:27.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: The Times article?
[28:27.670 --> 28:28.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: The Times article?
[28:28.850 --> 28:29.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: The one that...
[28:29.410 --> 28:30.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: What was that article about?
[28:30.770 --> 28:32.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: He wrote a bunch of articles.
[28:32.210 --> 28:33.030]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah, there was more than one.
[28:33.130 --> 28:35.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: There was one involving Jennifer Lynch.
[28:35.910 --> 28:36.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: It was recent.
[28:36.710 --> 28:42.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, the army person that was from West Virginia that was held as a prisoner of war in Iraq.
[28:43.330 --> 28:49.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: First of all, there's a whole big thing about whether or not this person was actually being held as a prisoner or was held in a hospital.
[28:49.330 --> 28:51.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: But that's a story of mistruth on the U.S.
[28:51.710 --> 28:52.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: government's part.
[28:52.730 --> 29:00.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: This guy wrote a story about her farmhouse and how it looked out onto, like, you know, fields of grain and things like that.
[29:00.970 --> 29:01.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: Utter nonsense.
[29:01.690 --> 29:03.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Things that were not true at all.
[29:03.090 --> 29:06.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: He had never even been there, but the New York Times printed it as if it were fact.
[29:06.450 --> 29:10.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: And just all these stories that really there was no reason to print them just because I guess he could.
[29:10.690 --> 29:12.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it was, I guess, a sense of power.
[29:14.030 --> 29:15.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: A lot of reporters have that.
[29:15.690 --> 29:17.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: Don't believe everything you read.
[29:17.030 --> 29:17.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, no.
[29:17.810 --> 29:18.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Question everything.
[29:18.730 --> 29:19.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: Question us, too.
[29:19.530 --> 29:20.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: We like that.
[29:20.210 --> 29:23.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: In fact, you can question us by calling us 212-209-2900.
[29:24.930 --> 29:26.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Here's something interesting.
[29:26.890 --> 29:29.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if you guys, what you guys got to think about this.
[29:29.650 --> 29:33.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: This person writes in with the ultimate in conspiracy theories.
[29:34.090 --> 29:36.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: This was actually sent to Off the Wall, but I'm going to read it here.
[29:37.330 --> 29:39.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: I listened to your shows over the Internet last week on Off the Wall.
[29:39.750 --> 29:44.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: You mentioned that the phrase Off the Wall is said in the theme song for Off the Hook.
[29:45.630 --> 29:46.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, it's true.
[29:47.070 --> 29:49.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you listen to the theme song of...
[29:49.610 --> 29:50.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: Can we do that?
[29:51.390 --> 29:52.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: Can we bring the...
[29:52.550 --> 29:57.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: This will take a bit of technical doing here at WBAI because the CD player doesn't queue up again.
[29:57.550 --> 29:57.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[29:58.090 --> 29:58.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: Here's our theme.
[29:59.670 --> 30:05.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you listen to the lyrics, you will hear that the second line is Off the Wall.
[30:07.010 --> 30:12.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, and that's the title of the other show on the other radio station which, you know, was never known at the time when we did this.
[30:12.830 --> 30:13.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: Why don't you sing it, Emmanuel?
[30:13.950 --> 30:14.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: No, I don't think I'm going to do that.
[30:15.090 --> 30:27.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: But what I am going to do is continue reading this because it says that you also mentioned that MTV was censoring any references to 2600 from people who visit their message boards or whatever.
[30:29.970 --> 30:32.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: That got me thinking about another strange coincidence that I've noticed.
[30:33.290 --> 30:40.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: I remember listening to Off the Hook back in 95 or 96 and Off the Hook seemed like a reasonable name for a show that was mostly about phone hacking.
[30:40.770 --> 30:42.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: It makes sense in that context.
[30:43.070 --> 30:45.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: A phone is said to be Off the Hook when in use.
[30:46.130 --> 30:47.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: We all understand that, right?
[30:47.190 --> 30:47.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[30:47.550 --> 30:47.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Of course.
[30:47.970 --> 30:55.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Off the Hook was fairly common in conversation amongst other people who talked about hacking slash freaking but in the rest of the population it was almost never used.
[30:56.630 --> 30:57.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Any problems with that?
[30:57.670 --> 30:58.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: 95, 96?
[30:58.450 --> 30:58.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[30:59.090 --> 31:09.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: About two years ago when I lived at college and watched entirely too much MTV I noticed that their little wannabe TV anchor type people started using the phrase Off the Hook obsessively.
[31:09.990 --> 31:12.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: They used it to describe things that were zany or crazy or awesome.
[31:12.970 --> 31:15.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, things that might previously have been called off the wall.
[31:16.370 --> 31:22.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, several of us noticed that the phrase Off the Hook means absolutely nothing in that context and it's ridiculous for them to be using it.
[31:22.210 --> 31:31.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: Our theory and this is the good part was that whoever runs MTV was deciding to do a test to see how much control they actually do have over our culture and society.
[31:31.710 --> 31:40.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: By introducing a meaningless phrase and having their talking heads repeat it as though it was actually a cool thing to say they could see whether people picked it up and started using it themselves.
[31:40.750 --> 31:47.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: I stopped watching MTV a couple of months after that but I am displeased to report that usage of this ridiculous phrase has become incredibly widespread.
[31:47.790 --> 32:04.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Even without ever watching MTV I hear someone say this phrase in the wrong context multiple times per week either in person or on the radio or on TV shows since I assume our theory is true that this is all a big sheep test on the masses by MTV I actually cringe when I hear people say it.
[32:05.570 --> 32:08.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: And by the way you are listening to Off the Hook on WBAI in New York.
[32:09.950 --> 32:32.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: Anyway when you reported that MTV is blocking anyone from saying that they're interested in 2600 or hacking I thought maybe they're trying to cover up their tracks maybe they don't want people reading your site and seeing the years of archives of a radio show called Off the Hook and then actively contemplating what the hell that phrase actually means and realizing that it's bull when they say it.
[32:32.810 --> 32:41.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: Another factor that seems to support these theories is that they are now shifting their test phrase from Off the Hook to Off the Chain.
[32:43.750 --> 32:49.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Another stupid completely meaningless phrase but something that can't be directly connected to you.
[32:49.970 --> 32:51.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: What do you think about all this?
[32:51.250 --> 32:52.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, it's intriguing.
[32:52.970 --> 32:53.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: It really is.
[32:54.490 --> 32:57.830]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think we've been giving too much time to MTV.
[32:58.470 --> 33:02.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, you know, I think all this can be solved by people just not watching MTV and not paying attention to what they...
[33:02.650 --> 33:07.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, it's annoying to us when they won't allow you to say 2600 in their little chats.
[33:08.910 --> 33:09.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, I don't know.
[33:10.070 --> 33:15.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: The phrase Off the Hook has been around for quite some time but, you know, not in the context that this person was referring to it.
[33:16.190 --> 33:17.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wasn't there a film?
[33:17.230 --> 33:19.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: There was a film called Off the Hook, wasn't there?
[33:22.890 --> 33:27.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: the main protagonist's name was Goldstein.
[33:27.950 --> 33:28.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think.
[33:28.770 --> 33:29.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: You can check that.
[33:29.510 --> 33:31.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: I can check on IMDb.
[33:31.290 --> 33:33.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I can't check because I'm talking on the radio and I can't type the same...
[33:33.770 --> 33:34.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, I'll try.
[33:34.930 --> 33:35.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'll try.
[33:36.390 --> 33:37.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: You want to do this?
[33:37.210 --> 33:37.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: Go ahead.
[33:38.630 --> 33:38.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[33:39.690 --> 33:40.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: More letters.
[33:41.390 --> 33:43.570]  [SPEAKER_03]: Then check if there was a film called Off the Chain.
[33:43.810 --> 33:44.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, Off the Chain.
[33:44.470 --> 33:45.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's one in production, I'll bet.
[33:45.730 --> 33:46.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: MTV production.
[33:46.290 --> 33:47.710]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's for another radio show.
[33:47.870 --> 33:48.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[33:48.810 --> 33:50.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hey, just curious, what's up with the annoying guy?
[33:50.530 --> 33:52.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: You keep disconnecting other than him being annoying.
[33:52.330 --> 33:53.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: I haven't heard much he has to say.
[33:53.750 --> 33:54.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: I haven't been listening regularly.
[33:54.870 --> 33:55.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: Shame on me.
[33:55.450 --> 33:56.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I'm probably...
[33:56.190 --> 33:56.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: I probably missed quite a bit.
[33:57.210 --> 33:57.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: What started it?
[33:58.030 --> 33:58.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: What started it?
[33:58.770 --> 34:00.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, you'd have to look to his parents for that, I guess.
[34:01.090 --> 34:02.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: But that would be Rebel.
[34:02.630 --> 34:04.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Rebel constantly calling us.
[34:04.170 --> 34:12.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, well, you know, the latest thing, and I talked to him about this at the meeting, was signing me up for the Army Reserves, which I did not appreciate at all.
[34:12.270 --> 34:16.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't like getting calls from the Army Reserves, wanting to know where I am and why I'm not at basic training.
[34:18.470 --> 34:22.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: And as soon as he issues a statement on that, maybe we'll hear something else he has to say.
[34:23.590 --> 34:24.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[34:25.510 --> 34:29.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: I just don't like when people do things and they pretend they didn't do them or pretend that it doesn't matter.
[34:29.570 --> 34:30.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: It doesn't matter.
[34:30.110 --> 34:32.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: You sign somebody up, you know, it's our nation's defense.
[34:32.970 --> 34:34.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: I take that kind of thing very seriously.
[34:35.950 --> 34:36.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: I sure do.
[34:37.030 --> 34:38.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hey, I was watching a rerun of Everwood.
[34:39.530 --> 34:40.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Ever watch that program?
[34:40.790 --> 34:41.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: Everwood?
[34:41.330 --> 34:42.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: I can't even say it right.
[34:42.550 --> 34:43.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: On the WB.
[34:44.970 --> 34:46.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that's probably why you never heard of it.
[34:47.650 --> 34:48.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good point.
[34:48.530 --> 34:51.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: The lead character was wearing a 2600 blue box shirt.
[34:51.430 --> 34:52.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: I thought you might find it funny.
[34:54.110 --> 35:01.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: And this person, Mr. Kan, also wants to know if I could direct him to a place to research receiving Canadian TV down here in Kansas.
[35:01.650 --> 35:12.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I can tell you, you most definitely can receive Canadian TV down there in Kansas with a company called Expressview, E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-U dot com or StarChoice dot com.
[35:14.250 --> 35:16.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that's where you get the equipment from.
[35:16.490 --> 35:18.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: The next thing you need is an address in Canada.
[35:18.390 --> 35:25.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: If you get in the building address in Canada, either through a friend or through some kind of service that offers that, then you're good to go.
[35:25.190 --> 35:30.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: You simply get your dish and you can receive programming and see all kinds of things you don't see here in this country.
[35:31.130 --> 35:32.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's cheap, too.
[35:32.210 --> 35:33.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's not as expensive as dishes here.
[35:34.010 --> 35:34.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, Red Hat.
[35:34.970 --> 35:37.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: There is, in fact, a movie called Off the Hook.
[35:37.270 --> 35:37.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is there?
[35:37.650 --> 35:43.130]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's about two young black men from the South Bronx projects trying to become rap stars.
[35:43.330 --> 35:44.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, there you go.
[35:44.130 --> 35:45.030]  [SPEAKER_14]: What year is it made?
[35:45.050 --> 35:49.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's probably using the meaningless phrase as opposed to the one with me, 1999.
[35:50.090 --> 35:50.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: 1999, okay.
[35:51.490 --> 35:53.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: Did MTV have anything to do with that production?
[35:53.450 --> 35:55.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: And is one of the characters named Goldstein?
[35:55.730 --> 35:56.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't think so.
[35:57.050 --> 35:57.590]  [SPEAKER_14]: Go to the other...
[35:57.590 --> 36:02.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: Why don't you come back here and finish your job and look up the cast and look up where it was produced and things like that.
[36:02.610 --> 36:03.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: IMDb is a great resource.
[36:04.050 --> 36:04.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, yeah.
[36:04.610 --> 36:04.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know.
[36:04.930 --> 36:11.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Ever since this whole Internet thing got started, you know, the Internet movie database is like something I'm constantly going to because they always have all the information.
[36:11.670 --> 36:12.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: They even have our film in there.
[36:12.890 --> 36:13.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Freedom Downtime is in there.
[36:13.650 --> 36:13.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: The credits?
[36:15.070 --> 36:15.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let's see.
[36:16.850 --> 36:17.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: What are you pointing at?
[36:18.510 --> 36:18.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[36:19.030 --> 36:19.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: Those are the credits.
[36:20.250 --> 36:21.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't see any Goldsteins in there.
[36:21.610 --> 36:22.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: Someone told me there was a Goldstein.
[36:22.750 --> 36:24.490]  [SPEAKER_15]: I think this might be a later...
[36:24.490 --> 36:26.350]  [SPEAKER_15]: There was another movie, the one that you're talking about.
[36:26.530 --> 36:27.590]  [SPEAKER_15]: I don't think this is the one.
[36:27.670 --> 36:28.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is 99.
[36:28.250 --> 36:28.870]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[36:29.790 --> 36:30.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's one after 99?
[36:31.070 --> 36:31.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Before.
[36:31.650 --> 36:31.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: Before.
[36:32.130 --> 36:32.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[36:32.910 --> 36:33.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[36:33.390 --> 36:35.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I don't want to give this thing any more...
[36:36.010 --> 36:37.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: Look at company credits, though.
[36:37.970 --> 36:38.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: See if MTV was involved.
[36:40.870 --> 36:41.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[36:41.290 --> 36:41.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: What else?
[36:42.550 --> 36:44.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: Our phone number again, 212-209-2900.
[36:44.830 --> 36:46.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: We'll take phone calls in just a couple of moments.
[36:47.370 --> 36:48.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: Low Power FM radio.
[36:48.730 --> 36:49.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, yes.
[36:49.550 --> 36:51.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: You have an update on that, Bernie.
[36:51.230 --> 36:52.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: What's going on with Low Power FM?
[36:53.050 --> 37:03.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Long-time listeners probably remember that starting about five or six years ago, there was a ground downswell of movement in Low Power FM broadcasting, pirate broadcasting.
[37:03.710 --> 37:10.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: And here in Philadelphia about five years ago, we had this big East Coast micro-broadcasting conference, and we covered that on the show.
[37:13.030 --> 37:26.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: about all that public support for low-power community radio to sort of add an alternative voice to corporate radio rose to a crescendo about three years ago when...
[37:26.650 --> 37:30.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: about three or four years ago when the FCC actually conceded...
[37:30.630 --> 37:47.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: FCC Chairman Kennard actually conceded that this would be a good thing for local communities to have non-profit low-power FM stations, which would be maybe a hundred watts and not interfere with these 50,000-watt powerhouses like WBAI.
[37:49.650 --> 37:55.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: And everybody was for it except for the National Association of Broadcasters and National Public Radio.
[37:55.570 --> 38:02.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they managed to pay off enough people in Congress to get something called the...
[38:03.190 --> 38:03.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: something...
[38:03.750 --> 38:04.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: some money's...
[38:05.910 --> 38:12.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: fake names for a piece of legislation called, like, the Broadcast Preservation Act or something like that, which would...
[38:12.550 --> 38:16.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: which would change the FCC rules for these low-power stations.
[38:16.750 --> 38:25.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, you probably remember when you turn around the dial on your FM digital radio anyway, you'll notice that the stations are spaced like 90...
[38:25.710 --> 38:27.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: What is WBI on?
[38:27.590 --> 38:27.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: 90...
[38:27.730 --> 38:29.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, 99.5, so you'd have to go...
[38:29.830 --> 38:30.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: So 99.5...
[38:30.390 --> 38:36.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: You'd have to go down to 98.7 to get the next full-power station or up to 100.3, is it?
[38:37.290 --> 38:38.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: 99.9 also.
[38:38.810 --> 38:39.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: 99.9 is in Connecticut.
[38:40.210 --> 38:40.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh.
[38:40.690 --> 38:40.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah.
[38:41.150 --> 38:42.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, I mean, yeah, they do space them.
[38:43.010 --> 38:43.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: They space them closer.
[38:43.990 --> 38:44.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: 101.1.
[38:44.750 --> 38:47.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: But as far as in the same city, full-power...
[38:47.190 --> 38:51.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're spaced 200 kHz apart on these slots on the dial.
[38:51.070 --> 38:59.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, the FCC said that these low-power stations could really be operated just two slots away from a powerful station and not interfere with that powerful station.
[39:00.290 --> 39:05.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: And that would open the door to really thousands of these low-power stations across the country.
[39:06.070 --> 39:20.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the National Association of Broadcasters and NPR got Congress to pass this Broadcasters Preservation Act, which would change that rule to make it, again, this is three years ago, to change that rule so that these low-power stations would have to be three slots away.
[39:21.150 --> 39:21.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, that was ridiculous.
[39:22.330 --> 39:34.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, try going to any town in this country and find any station where you can get an empty slot that's three slots away from an existing station.
[39:34.210 --> 39:35.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can't do that in New York.
[39:35.450 --> 39:38.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can't do that in 99% of the cities in the country.
[39:39.230 --> 39:40.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Nome, Alaska.
[39:40.490 --> 39:42.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: I believe you can do that.
[39:42.590 --> 39:43.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, effectively...
[39:43.730 --> 39:44.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not sure.
[39:45.170 --> 39:46.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not sure.
[39:46.170 --> 39:54.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Effectively, Congress put an end to all but a handful of low-power, non-profit community broadcast stations in all but the most rural areas.
[39:54.490 --> 40:13.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, what Senator McCain and some other people got put into this Broadcast Preservation Act, which was a good thing, this add-on, was that they had to... Congress had to fund a study done by an independent organization, government-funded, to really study this.
[40:14.030 --> 40:25.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because what the NAB said was it would just cause interference, and they released this CD, this audio CD to all the members of Congress, which just had, like, music from a radio station playing, and then this fake interference.
[40:25.630 --> 40:30.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it was sort of a simulation of how bad this would be if a low-power station were two slots away.
[40:30.650 --> 40:32.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: But it was non-scientific.
[40:32.170 --> 40:33.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was complete BS.
[40:33.630 --> 40:49.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, anyhow, the MITRE Corporation, which has done all kinds of secret studies for the government on, like, how to wiretap telephone microwave signals and all that sort of stuff, they did this study, and it took them a couple years to do this study, and it was finished back in March for the FCC.
[40:49.730 --> 40:51.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: But the FCC sat on this study.
[40:51.930 --> 40:56.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: In fact, there was no public announcement that this study had ever been finished.
[40:56.050 --> 41:07.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, that group of low-power broadcast activists called the Amherst Alliance, they somehow discovered that this study had been done and requested it and requested it, and the FCC wouldn't divulge it.
[41:07.850 --> 41:12.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they filed the Freedom of Information Act on the FCC, which the FCC ignored.
[41:13.070 --> 41:20.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, anyhow, a lot of correspondence went back and forth, and some members of Congress got involved through, you know, constituents calling them.
[41:20.290 --> 41:24.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, finally, the FCC, a few days ago, put it up on their website.
[41:24.450 --> 41:27.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a 700-page report, which says, not surprisingly...
[41:27.990 --> 41:29.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm going to read a couple of excerpts from it.
[41:30.090 --> 41:31.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, make it quick, because we're running out of time.
[41:31.830 --> 41:31.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[41:32.250 --> 41:46.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Based on the measurements and analysis reported herein, existing third-adjacent channel distance restrictions should be waived to allow low-power FM operations at locations that meet all other FCC requirements.
[41:47.650 --> 41:52.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, basically, what they said is that two slots away is fine.
[41:52.110 --> 42:00.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's not going to be any noticeable interference to powerful stations from these 10- or 100-watt low-power, non-commercial community stations.
[42:00.610 --> 42:05.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, if I understand correctly, what that means is, let's use WBAI as an example, 99.5.
[42:05.750 --> 42:08.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: We could have a low-power station in New York at 99.9.
[42:09.030 --> 42:09.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's right.
[42:09.690 --> 42:10.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it wouldn't interfere.
[42:10.330 --> 42:10.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: If that slot were available.
[42:11.210 --> 42:12.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, if the slot were available.
[42:12.330 --> 42:17.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: And if, on the other side of that frequency, there was two slots free as well.
[42:18.190 --> 42:18.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Right.
[42:18.710 --> 42:20.890]  [SPEAKER_10]: Now, honestly, it's not going to happen in New York City.
[42:20.970 --> 42:21.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, probably not.
[42:21.970 --> 42:35.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's not going to happen in New York City, but, literally, there are many hundreds, if not thousands, of cities across the country where it couldn't happen with this third-adjacent rule, and it now can happen if the rule is changed back to second-adjacent.
[42:35.250 --> 42:39.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know what, it especially can happen if they use a little creativity here.
[42:39.810 --> 42:42.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: After all, TV stations are being relinquished.
[42:43.130 --> 42:46.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: The frequencies are being relinquished for, you know, for digital television.
[42:46.670 --> 42:50.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, that means everything below 88 is going to be opening up.
[42:50.870 --> 42:55.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: And if you go to 87.9, I believe, or is it 87.7?
[42:55.510 --> 42:55.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's one of those.
[42:56.410 --> 43:00.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because you'll hear the audio for Channel 6, if you get a Channel 6 in your area.
[43:00.630 --> 43:04.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's because the audio for TV stations starts showing up down there.
[43:04.170 --> 43:09.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: Below Channel 6 is Channel 5, and, you know, it takes up a lot of bandwidth, each channel.
[43:09.890 --> 43:21.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, just opening up, Channels 2 through 6, is going to open up a huge amount of bandwidth, which could be turned over to the FM spectrum, and all kinds of radio stations could be put in their place.
[43:21.330 --> 43:34.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: If some kind of a rule was written that said, you know, only non-commercial stations, only stations that don't already have owners, you know, don't already own radio stations somewhere else, you could solve all these problems very, very easily and cheaply.
[43:36.110 --> 43:41.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, this is good timing for this report to actually be pried out of the fingers of the FCC now.
[43:42.010 --> 43:44.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because of all this recent media...
[43:44.410 --> 43:45.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[43:45.010 --> 43:52.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: All the restrictions on corporate ownership of radio and TV stations and newspapers, that sort of thing, are, you know, being proposed to be lifted.
[43:52.790 --> 43:58.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: And this is perfect timing now to provide alternative broadcasts.
[44:01.210 --> 44:21.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, I hope people call their legislators and support, or voice their support, for a reenactment of the law three years ago that would have permitted low-power stations, low-power commercial, low-power non-commercial stations, to be on the air in most cities across the country.
[44:21.890 --> 44:24.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: Bernie, where can people go to get more information on this story?
[44:24.250 --> 44:34.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: You can go to DIYmedia.net, and just use their search engine to find FCC, and it'll be at the top of the list.
[44:34.690 --> 44:35.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[44:35.350 --> 44:41.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: DIYmedia.net, and in their little search field, just type in FCC, and it'll pop up that article.
[44:41.790 --> 44:47.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, it's a 700-page study, but there's excerpts of the juiciest paragraphs in there.
[44:47.830 --> 44:56.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: And you'll see that what the National Association of Broadcasters and NPR perpetrated was a complete fraud about this interference issue.
[44:56.950 --> 44:58.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: And now the truth is out.
[44:58.950 --> 44:59.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[44:59.110 --> 45:04.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, it's a fascinating story, and one that we're going to certainly be on top of, because it means a lot to a lot of people.
[45:05.130 --> 45:07.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Again, our phone number, 212-209-2900.
[45:07.090 --> 45:08.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: We're going to take phone calls in just one moment.
[45:09.310 --> 45:11.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: Here's a story someone sent us that I thought was pretty interesting.
[45:11.830 --> 45:16.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: About a year ago, I got a voicemail on my Sprint PCS phone that was not intended for me.
[45:16.930 --> 45:18.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: In fact, it wasn't even a voicemail.
[45:18.610 --> 45:20.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: It was two people having a phone conversation.
[45:20.310 --> 45:24.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: I thought maybe one of these two people had somehow dialed me by mistake, and we were in a three-way call.
[45:24.250 --> 45:30.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: However, I am positive I did not know either of these people since my phone had been on for several hours before, and it didn't ring.
[45:30.830 --> 45:34.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: This conversation was mysteriously just sent straight to my voicemail box.
[45:34.370 --> 45:35.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: How does this happen?
[45:35.610 --> 45:38.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: Could this just mean that Sprint is recording calls, and one just got misplaced?
[45:40.710 --> 45:44.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: It was a call, in case anyone's interested, of a woman making an appointment to get her hair done.
[45:45.890 --> 45:46.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
[45:47.610 --> 45:55.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: I've gotten all kinds of interesting things with T-Mobile recently, where if you call somebody on T-Mobile, you hear someone else's conversation before you get connected.
[45:55.650 --> 45:58.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: This has happened several times in the past few weeks.
[45:58.470 --> 46:02.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: In fact, I know some people who have T-Mobile phones where they claim this has been going on for months.
[46:03.330 --> 46:11.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Maybe one in ten times when you call them, instead of hearing their phone ring, you just hear someone else talking, and they can't hear you.
[46:11.990 --> 46:12.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: How long?
[46:12.430 --> 46:12.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: Sure.
[46:12.950 --> 46:14.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: It can last for minutes.
[46:14.690 --> 46:16.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: It can last for a good long time.
[46:16.350 --> 46:19.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not sure if the person you're calling, if their phone rings at all.
[46:19.810 --> 46:21.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm not certain if that happens.
[46:21.330 --> 46:25.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: But there's something wacky going on out there, and if anyone has an explanation, please send it in.
[46:25.790 --> 46:26.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: For the Sprint thing, I don't know.
[46:26.790 --> 46:30.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: That sounds like it's possible somebody was hitting three-way by accident.
[46:30.750 --> 46:31.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's always a possibility.
[46:32.210 --> 46:37.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: If you're a T-Mobile customer, there's a chance that someone could be listening to your conversation just accidentally.
[46:37.550 --> 46:37.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Mm-hmm.
[46:38.670 --> 46:38.990]  [SPEAKER_10]: Great.
[46:38.990 --> 46:39.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: Apparently.
[46:40.250 --> 46:46.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: It could be something involving a land link to the T-Mobile tower.
[46:46.530 --> 46:50.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: You don't know where it's happening.
[46:50.390 --> 46:51.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: It could be happening anywhere.
[46:51.230 --> 46:54.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: But it does seem to happen a lot with T-Mobile, and I'd like to find out more about that.
[46:54.610 --> 46:56.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, one final story, then we'll take some phone calls.
[46:56.690 --> 47:08.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: France has taken a French lesson from its Quebec cousins, announcing electronic mail will be known as a courriel, a term coined by a Montreal professor.
[47:08.730 --> 47:11.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's spelled C-O-U-R-R-I-E-L.
[47:12.430 --> 47:26.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Basically, the Commission General de Terminologie, overseer of the French language in France, has adopted the term seven years after it was first used by University of Montreal literature professor Jean-Claude Goudin.
[47:27.330 --> 47:38.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: The word courriel, and you have to say it like that, too, each time, recently appeared in the Language Commission's official publication, and use of the term will be mandatory throughout the French government.
[47:38.690 --> 47:46.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: The Commission had high praise for the word courriel, which first appeared in Goudin's 1996 book, La Planet Cyber.
[47:47.010 --> 47:48.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: Does anybody know what that means?
[47:48.910 --> 47:49.270]  No.
[47:49.270 --> 47:50.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: It means the cyber planet.
[47:51.950 --> 47:52.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[47:52.730 --> 47:53.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good translation.
[47:53.250 --> 48:01.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: Evocative with a very French sound, the word courriel is widely used in the media and is preferable to the English term male.
[48:03.250 --> 48:04.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't get it.
[48:04.710 --> 48:05.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's according to the Commission.
[48:06.310 --> 48:09.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: Does it say over there for AOL, you've got courriel?
[48:09.550 --> 48:10.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: I imagine they would have to now.
[48:11.810 --> 48:12.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: It makes sense.
[48:13.190 --> 48:14.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, you know, I can...
[48:14.410 --> 48:21.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: It sounds really heavy-handed to us, I know, but, you know, when you have all these English words invading your language, I can see the defensiveness.
[48:21.530 --> 48:22.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: I can see the reason for it.
[48:22.970 --> 48:26.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: And why should they be saying male when there's different words for the word male in French?
[48:27.010 --> 48:28.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, they shouldn't be using all these English words.
[48:28.950 --> 48:29.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm sure that...
[48:29.690 --> 48:32.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, you know, using computers, you have to know English.
[48:32.890 --> 48:34.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, there must be ways to use computers.
[48:34.250 --> 48:35.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: They already have a word for male.
[48:35.430 --> 48:35.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's called home.
[48:36.750 --> 48:38.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, but not electronic male, not email.
[48:38.770 --> 48:38.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: Sorry.
[48:38.990 --> 48:49.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: I like the French's mailing system that used these vacuum tubes and tunnels where you would just insert the letter in a cylinder and it would get sucked across town in this vacuum system.
[48:49.970 --> 48:50.390]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh-huh.
[48:50.770 --> 48:51.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Familiar with that?
[48:51.430 --> 48:51.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, yeah.
[48:51.910 --> 48:53.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: That was the original system.
[48:53.590 --> 48:55.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: Then the Internet came along and ruined everything.
[48:55.330 --> 48:55.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[48:55.850 --> 48:59.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, you know, they still use that system in various places like some Department of Vehicle offices.
[49:00.630 --> 49:05.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know B&H video uses that over on 34th Street.
[49:06.650 --> 49:07.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Various places.
[49:07.450 --> 49:10.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: They put money in those things at the local Home Depot.
[49:10.550 --> 49:15.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's great to watch them go, you know, go spinning across the room and traveling.
[49:15.390 --> 49:18.190]  [SPEAKER_15]: Before we go to calls, I just want to ask Bernie S.
[49:18.190 --> 49:24.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: You remember those cards we got for the Iraqi criminals?
[49:24.770 --> 49:25.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Iraqi playing cards.
[49:25.630 --> 49:25.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[49:26.130 --> 49:29.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: Well, have you seen Operation Iraqi Freedom, U.S.
[49:29.850 --> 49:30.710]  [SPEAKER_15]: military heroes?
[49:31.250 --> 49:31.770]  [SPEAKER_15]: Wow.
[49:31.850 --> 49:32.410]  [SPEAKER_15]: You got a whole deck of cards there.
[49:32.410 --> 49:34.810]  [SPEAKER_15]: I got a brand new deck I'm taking out now.
[49:34.910 --> 49:35.130]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay.
[49:35.130 --> 49:46.290]  [SPEAKER_15]: And it's interesting to see that we didn't have enough of the American heroes that we actually have a ship, an aircraft carrier.
[49:47.030 --> 49:48.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: You mean they don't have people on these things?
[49:49.010 --> 49:50.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: They have boats and airplanes?
[49:50.390 --> 49:52.270]  [SPEAKER_15]: We've got seals for...
[49:52.270 --> 49:53.470]  [SPEAKER_15]: Oh, my goodness.
[49:53.490 --> 49:55.750]  [SPEAKER_15]: The Patriot-guided missile is a hero.
[49:56.010 --> 50:02.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: There was another deck of cards that some organization put, which some company put out of all the anti...
[50:02.010 --> 50:03.650]  [SPEAKER_10]: all the unpatriotic Americans.
[50:04.130 --> 50:04.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: All the celebrities.
[50:04.850 --> 50:05.110]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yeah.
[50:05.330 --> 50:06.310]  [SPEAKER_15]: I understand we're on there.
[50:06.410 --> 50:10.850]  [SPEAKER_15]: And there's one more that's come out from Newsmax.com.
[50:10.970 --> 50:12.170]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is exclusive from them.
[50:12.330 --> 50:15.250]  [SPEAKER_15]: This is the Hillary deck of cards.
[50:15.390 --> 50:16.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, those guys are the lunatics anyway.
[50:17.530 --> 50:19.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: I've seen news stories from them, and they're very anti-Hillary.
[50:20.150 --> 50:21.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's all they can think about is Hillary all the time.
[50:21.810 --> 50:22.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, that's what this is, too.
[50:22.230 --> 50:24.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: But it's just a whole deck of Hillary cards.
[50:24.410 --> 50:25.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's a Hillary, Hillary deck.
[50:25.990 --> 50:28.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, you know, I guess anybody can put out a deck of cards.
[50:28.050 --> 50:29.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, you know, it's...
[50:29.750 --> 50:37.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's also the GATT.org folks put out a deck of actual war criminals like George Bush and so on.
[50:37.490 --> 50:38.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: What's that site?
[50:38.470 --> 50:39.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: GATT.org.
[50:39.510 --> 50:39.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: How do you spell that?
[50:40.090 --> 50:42.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: G-A-T-T, like General Agreement on Trades and Tariffs.
[50:43.030 --> 50:43.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[50:43.390 --> 50:44.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's a good one.
[50:44.350 --> 50:47.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: I saw part of that, and that looked pretty interesting.
[50:47.870 --> 50:58.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, yeah, you know, what's really crazy, though, the deck of cards, the original deck of cards, which I handed to Noam Chomsky when he came out to Stony Brook, and he looked at it in horror for a good couple of minutes before returning it to me.
[50:58.410 --> 50:59.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: I was going to give it to him.
[50:59.150 --> 50:59.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: I said, I can have it.
[50:59.910 --> 51:00.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: He said, no, no, I can't.
[51:00.690 --> 51:01.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: I can't.
[51:01.190 --> 51:02.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: But he was fascinated by it.
[51:02.650 --> 51:13.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, the original one with all the, you know, Iraqi most wanted on there, even when they find somebody on any TV network anywhere in the world, they just show the card.
[51:13.350 --> 51:15.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Like, it's a valid way of identifying somebody.
[51:15.390 --> 51:20.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, the Ace of Hearts was caught today, and it's just so silly, and I don't think they realize that.
[51:20.550 --> 51:21.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, we're going to take some phone calls.
[51:21.990 --> 51:23.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's 212-209-2900.
[51:23.430 --> 51:24.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let's go over here first.
[51:24.990 --> 51:25.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, the button didn't work.
[51:25.810 --> 51:26.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let's try it.
[51:26.350 --> 51:27.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: The buttons aren't working.
[51:27.990 --> 51:29.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: You saw me press it, didn't you?
[51:29.030 --> 51:29.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[51:29.490 --> 51:29.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Look at this.
[51:30.430 --> 51:31.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, I'm going to press it over here.
[51:31.850 --> 51:33.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right, let's see if anybody's there.
[51:33.090 --> 51:33.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[51:34.530 --> 51:35.890]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wow, totally off the chain.
[51:36.090 --> 51:36.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: Off the chain, yes.
[51:36.870 --> 51:37.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: Off the chain.
[51:38.590 --> 51:41.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Here's a simple question, and you know the answer.
[51:41.370 --> 51:41.510]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[51:41.510 --> 51:43.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: You probably mentioned it earlier.
[51:44.290 --> 51:50.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: This is the Wall Street Journal issue about getting through menus.
[51:50.910 --> 51:51.150]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[51:52.290 --> 51:53.790]  [SPEAKER_02]: Is that today's Wall Street Journal?
[51:53.830 --> 51:54.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know.
[51:54.470 --> 51:58.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know, I had to go through hell to get this thing to print, because someone sent it.
[51:58.470 --> 52:01.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Actually, thanks to Danny B for sending this to us.
[52:02.370 --> 52:04.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: They sent it to us, and they gave the URL at the bottom.
[52:04.550 --> 52:06.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: I thought I'd print out a nice, you know, neat copy.
[52:06.330 --> 52:09.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: But when I went to the URL, they said, Oh, you have to pay to get to this.
[52:09.510 --> 52:14.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I said, okay, I'm not going to, you know, subscribe to a newspaper just to print out one article.
[52:14.670 --> 52:17.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I, you know, I printed the thing in ASCII format.
[52:17.370 --> 52:18.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I don't know what issue it is.
[52:18.670 --> 52:18.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Does it say on that?
[52:18.930 --> 52:19.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: So it's not in today's.
[52:19.730 --> 52:21.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Does it say the date on the piece of paper?
[52:21.690 --> 52:23.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: It says July 30th.
[52:23.110 --> 52:23.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: 30th.
[52:23.650 --> 52:24.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: July 30th?
[52:25.210 --> 52:25.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: Last year.
[52:26.070 --> 52:27.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, but this is...
[52:27.290 --> 52:28.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: But they also mentioned things from this year.
[52:29.170 --> 52:30.410]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, it might have been updated.
[52:30.650 --> 52:31.970]  [SPEAKER_13]: But that's the top date on there.
[52:32.270 --> 52:34.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because they're talking about recent things.
[52:35.050 --> 52:36.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: But I'm not sure.
[52:36.530 --> 52:38.210]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, on a totally different subject.
[52:38.910 --> 52:51.630]  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you just mentioned earlier about how instead of giving out the Social Security numbers, you would give out information about how you acquire them, right?
[52:51.770 --> 52:55.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, databases that people's information are in and how to access those.
[52:55.110 --> 52:58.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: And maybe, you know, if they got closed down as a result, everybody would benefit.
[52:58.030 --> 53:09.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it just puts me in mind of, there's an author, Borges, and it was said about him that if he wanted to write a novel, he'd write a short story about the writing of that novel.
[53:10.270 --> 53:12.130]  [SPEAKER_02]: Your idea sounds very similar.
[53:12.610 --> 53:18.830]  [SPEAKER_02]: Instead of giving out the numbers, you tell people how they can find them for themselves if they're that interested.
[53:19.270 --> 53:22.490]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's like teaching a man how to fish.
[53:22.630 --> 53:22.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, the fish.
[53:22.850 --> 53:24.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: How to fish, rather than giving him a fish.
[53:24.710 --> 53:27.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and you give him fish dinners for the rest of his life.
[53:27.650 --> 53:27.850]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[53:28.150 --> 53:28.570]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, listen.
[53:28.570 --> 53:29.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because everybody likes fish, you know.
[53:29.910 --> 53:30.530]  [SPEAKER_02]: Enjoy the show.
[53:30.610 --> 53:30.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[53:31.130 --> 53:31.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thanks.
[53:31.650 --> 53:32.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thanks for calling.
[53:32.750 --> 53:34.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: And let's see if we can fit in a couple more.
[53:34.390 --> 53:34.650]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good evening.
[53:34.730 --> 53:35.170]  [SPEAKER_12]: You're on the air.
[53:36.150 --> 53:36.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello?
[53:36.770 --> 53:37.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[53:37.410 --> 53:38.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, how you doing?
[53:38.550 --> 53:38.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good.
[53:38.710 --> 53:38.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: How are you?
[53:39.170 --> 53:39.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good.
[53:39.510 --> 53:45.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was listening, and I heard you guys talking about the infamous off-the-hook phrase.
[53:46.510 --> 53:52.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I really like to follow, you know, slang and phrases and where it originates and such.
[53:52.610 --> 53:58.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I really have to take issue with the concept that the phrase is entirely meaningless.
[53:58.450 --> 53:58.890]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[53:59.270 --> 54:12.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because the idea is, the phrase when I was, you know, when I was, I'm 31, but I was growing up in the 80s, off-the-hook, I mean, where that, it's interesting to see where all these sort of phrases come from.
[54:13.330 --> 54:20.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it, if your phone was constantly ringing, like you were inundated with calls, people would say, oh man, my phone is ringing off-the-hook.
[54:20.370 --> 54:23.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I think the phone, the phone meaning is pretty much understood.
[54:23.970 --> 54:25.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, people have used it there.
[54:25.470 --> 54:27.990]  [SPEAKER_12]: But I think this person was talking about using it in a different context.
[54:28.290 --> 54:29.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, no, no, no, no.
[54:29.170 --> 54:43.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: The person was arguing that the, having it, the person before was just saying, if the phone, if you're using the phone, it's off-the-hook, how then could it possibly mean crazy, off-the-wall, you know, abundant?
[54:43.170 --> 54:43.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: I see, yeah.
[54:44.390 --> 54:52.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the idea is, because that's where it comes from all those, you know, a lot of these street phrases, you know, they start in rap or whatever, they start, you know.
[54:53.970 --> 54:57.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's not off-the-hook like, oh, my phone was being used.
[54:57.330 --> 55:05.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: But off-the-hook now, you know, it's sort of synonymous with crazy, because if your phone's ringing off-the-hook, it means your phone is constantly ringing.
[55:06.150 --> 55:07.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's so crazy, man.
[55:07.410 --> 55:08.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: People called me all night.
[55:08.230 --> 55:09.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: I had 15 calls in a row, you know.
[55:09.910 --> 55:11.430]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, as you're saying, yes, definitely.
[55:11.630 --> 55:15.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the sort of stretch to where it is now, you know.
[55:15.950 --> 55:18.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I doubt that that phrase started with MTV.
[55:18.310 --> 55:31.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: All these phrases, you know, they start, like most phrases from the 50s to the present, they start with just colloquial terms that the kids are using, you know, and...
[55:31.130 --> 55:35.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: I would hope MTV doesn't have that kind of control over the language, where they can actually make a phrase.
[55:35.670 --> 55:42.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: But, you know, I do think it's worth looking at and studying and seeing if maybe they do, or maybe they are influencing the language somehow, you know.
[55:42.330 --> 55:47.950]  [SPEAKER_12]: I was in a bar last night, and somebody put on that show, Jackass.
[55:48.150 --> 55:48.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, yeah.
[55:48.590 --> 56:04.470]  [SPEAKER_12]: And just watching the reaction of people, everybody, the guy that comes in to sell flowers to everybody that's in the place, he just, like, froze and was staring at the TV set for 10 minutes, watching some idiot catapult himself out of a grocery cart into a cement wall.
[56:04.590 --> 56:04.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[56:04.990 --> 56:05.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right?
[56:05.290 --> 56:08.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: And all these people are just, like, pointing and laughing, and they just...
[56:08.010 --> 56:11.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then out in the street, everyone's talking about it, you know, and it's a repeat, too.
[56:11.830 --> 56:12.730]  [SPEAKER_14]: And this is last night.
[56:12.990 --> 56:13.430]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is last...
[56:13.430 --> 56:16.510]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, you know, people are very influenced by this kind of a thing.
[56:16.770 --> 56:16.910]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[56:16.910 --> 56:19.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they have to warn you at the beginning, don't do this.
[56:19.810 --> 56:21.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, yeah, and of course, everybody does it anyway.
[56:21.410 --> 56:25.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: But they used to send in videos of them doing it, getting injured doing it.
[56:25.310 --> 56:27.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah, send in your videos of you doing this, but don't do it.
[56:28.250 --> 56:34.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, the Jackass thing is just sort of the unfortunately logical extension of the whole Jerry Springer, you know...
[56:34.010 --> 56:36.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: Jerry Springer, our newest candidate for senator.
[56:36.590 --> 56:39.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: This country gets what it deserves, I have to say that.
[56:39.210 --> 56:40.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wait a minute, you said he's running for senator?
[56:40.190 --> 56:43.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: Isn't he running for senator in Ohio or Illinois, one of those places?
[56:43.330 --> 56:44.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: He's running for something.
[56:44.170 --> 56:44.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think it's senator.
[56:45.130 --> 56:45.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Really?
[56:51.410 --> 56:52.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: I figured it would be nothing.
[56:52.830 --> 56:54.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: But when did that story come out?
[56:54.750 --> 56:55.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: Within the last week.
[56:56.110 --> 56:56.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: Within the last week.
[56:57.790 --> 56:59.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: He used to be mayor of, I think, Cincinnati.
[56:59.690 --> 57:01.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: He was a mayor at one point, yes.
[57:01.070 --> 57:02.170]  [SPEAKER_13]: So he's going back to office.
[57:02.410 --> 57:02.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[57:02.730 --> 57:03.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: You know what?
[57:03.050 --> 57:04.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'd love to talk about this all night long, but we're out of time.
[57:04.890 --> 57:05.530]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, no, no problem.
[57:05.770 --> 57:06.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: All right.
[57:06.170 --> 57:07.250]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thanks for your call.
[57:08.310 --> 57:09.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, I'm sorry.
[57:09.410 --> 57:17.850]  [SPEAKER_03]: I'd just like to leave you with a closing thought that as the Pentagon proved with its deck of most wanted Iraqis, there's no better way to out the enemy than to depict it on a deck of cards.
[57:19.010 --> 57:19.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[57:19.370 --> 57:20.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's from the Hillary article.
[57:20.930 --> 57:21.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: But you know what?
[57:21.630 --> 57:23.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's really expensive to make cards.
[57:23.650 --> 57:25.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I think there's only two companies that make cards in the whole country.
[57:26.130 --> 57:29.070]  [SPEAKER_12]: But if you have ideas for playing cards, I'd like to hear them, certainly.
[57:29.510 --> 57:31.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: Email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[57:32.630 --> 57:35.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: And we'll be back again next week at this same time.
[57:35.450 --> 57:37.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: We'll be saying goodbye next week at this same time, but an hour earlier.
[57:38.050 --> 57:39.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: Coming up next, the personal computer show.
[57:40.730 --> 57:42.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: As well as the entire Wednesday night lineup.
[57:43.190 --> 57:44.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: See you next week.