Off The Hook - 2003-08-06

[00:00.000 --> 00:05.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: ...and Nidia Velasquez met to announce the kick-off of a 10-city U.S.
[00:05.320 --> 00:08.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: bus tour dubbed the Immigrant Workers' Freedom Ride.
[00:08.500 --> 00:18.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: The group cited the firebombing on July 5 of a Mexican family in Kingsville, New York, pointing out that violence, thought to be a thing of the past, is not a dead issue.
[00:21.060 --> 00:22.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is Free Speech Radio News.
[00:23.040 --> 00:24.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Deepa Fernandes.
[00:29.070 --> 00:33.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're listening to WBAI New York 99.5 FM.
[00:34.110 --> 00:38.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: Coming up now is Off the Hook with Emmanuel Goldstein on location.
[01:00.760 --> 01:01.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Respect the worst.
[01:02.640 --> 01:04.330]  [SPEAKER_14]: I hope that's understood.
[01:04.600 --> 01:05.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: But make me know!
[01:47.910 --> 01:48.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello?
[01:52.000 --> 01:53.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hey, you're there.
[01:54.430 --> 01:54.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ah.
[01:56.560 --> 01:58.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: And who am I speaking with?
[01:58.900 --> 02:02.650]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is Ken Gale, your substitute engineer for the day.
[02:02.820 --> 02:03.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ken, how you doing?
[02:04.740 --> 02:06.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: How you doing out there?
[02:06.660 --> 02:12.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, right now I'm standing in the middle of a camp field in a small town near Berlin.
[02:13.830 --> 02:15.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's really amazing.
[02:16.100 --> 02:20.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's very dark right now because it's 1 o'clock in the morning.
[02:21.020 --> 02:22.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: The stars are out.
[02:23.620 --> 02:26.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mars is brighter than I've ever seen it before.
[02:26.080 --> 02:36.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, I understand from a news report I heard earlier that Mars is going to be closer to the United States this month than in the last 50,000 years.
[02:36.360 --> 02:37.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: August 27th.
[02:37.320 --> 02:37.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[02:38.520 --> 02:41.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: So that's something that I think as Americans we can all be proud of.
[02:41.940 --> 02:46.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: But that's only a small fraction of what I'm experiencing here right now.
[02:47.480 --> 03:03.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm in the middle of a camp field with hundreds if not thousands of computer hackers who are busy setting up for the chaos communications camp, which starts in just a few hours on Thursday and runs until Sunday.
[03:03.180 --> 03:12.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have to say, if you have not yet made up your mind to come to this, it's probably getting to be too late for you to actually make it over and be part of this.
[03:12.280 --> 03:12.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Although, who knows?
[03:12.840 --> 03:15.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you have a Learjet, you might be able to pull it off.
[03:16.950 --> 03:22.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we have quite a lot of people that are basically part of this whole thing.
[03:22.520 --> 03:27.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's really a phenomenal experience.
[03:28.630 --> 03:29.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I must be hallucinating.
[03:30.170 --> 03:31.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: I could have sworn I just heard a WBAR news thing.
[03:32.240 --> 03:33.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Indeed you did.
[03:34.600 --> 03:36.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, okay.
[03:36.240 --> 03:37.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know that wasn't my fault.
[03:38.760 --> 03:40.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure why that was over.
[03:41.480 --> 03:42.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: It was interesting, though.
[03:43.170 --> 03:44.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just transfixed by this.
[03:44.560 --> 03:57.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have... actually, let me talk to the people in the studio, because what you're going to hear over the next hour is a bit of mayhem as we talk to probably a couple dozen different people here who are taking part in this thing.
[03:57.840 --> 03:58.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we're going to be wandering around.
[03:58.920 --> 04:01.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have this unique phone system that we're playing with.
[04:02.480 --> 04:06.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: By the way, I should also point out that the way that you're reaching me is also kind of unique.
[04:06.260 --> 04:07.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a new system we're playing with.
[04:08.740 --> 04:14.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if it works out, we're going to tell people exactly how it works, how they can do it themselves.
[04:15.840 --> 04:21.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I noticed when I first started with my travels that it was impossible to forward a Verizon phone line overseas.
[04:22.440 --> 04:27.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I didn't want to pay a dollar a minute or however much it cost for the roaming charges for a GSM phone.
[04:28.600 --> 04:33.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: I figured, you know, I'd like to take advantage of the low rates that you can get overseas.
[04:35.060 --> 04:37.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: And what better way than to forward a number to go there?
[04:37.980 --> 04:40.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: It turns out there's a toll-free number that you can get.
[04:40.540 --> 04:42.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can get a toll-free number assigned to you.
[04:42.840 --> 04:49.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: And to call Germany, for instance, is something like $0.08 a minute, including the cost of the toll-free number.
[04:49.840 --> 04:53.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: The only problem is you cannot forward to a mobile phone.
[04:53.740 --> 04:55.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you do that, it costs something like $0.40.
[04:55.860 --> 04:57.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: So we had to get a landline.
[04:57.730 --> 05:00.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: And that's what we're playing with right now is a landline.
[05:00.400 --> 05:05.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Even though we're using a cordless phone, we're wandering all over the campground.
[05:05.920 --> 05:08.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's going to be fun.
[05:08.560 --> 05:16.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: What we're going to do is three-way to another phone and talk to some people inside the cypherpunk tent that we're hanging out around right now.
[05:17.350 --> 05:19.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: But first, let me say hi to the people in the studio.
[05:19.600 --> 05:20.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who's there?
[05:21.120 --> 05:22.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, I'm here.
[05:22.470 --> 05:23.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's Jim.
[05:23.920 --> 05:25.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: That sounds like the friendly voice of Jim.
[05:25.480 --> 05:25.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[05:25.680 --> 05:26.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: How are you doing?
[05:26.300 --> 05:26.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm all right.
[05:27.760 --> 05:31.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: And how is New York and things going on there?
[05:31.600 --> 05:34.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: We've had a rash of rainy weather.
[05:34.160 --> 05:37.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: So I'll be happy that the camping congress is not here.
[05:38.520 --> 05:38.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[05:39.060 --> 05:41.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have fair skies, not a cloud in sight.
[05:41.820 --> 05:44.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, it hasn't been rain here in a very long time either.
[05:44.200 --> 05:47.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: So some parts of the continent are ablaze right now, which is unfortunate.
[05:48.560 --> 05:51.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: But other than that, it's very nice weather.
[05:51.840 --> 05:52.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Perfect for this kind of a thing.
[05:54.400 --> 05:55.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm here, Red Hecht.
[05:55.840 --> 05:56.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Red Hecht, how are you doing?
[05:56.880 --> 05:57.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Fine, how are you?
[05:58.280 --> 05:59.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: I believe Mitch is there as well.
[05:59.560 --> 06:00.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yes, hello.
[06:00.680 --> 06:00.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Great.
[06:01.320 --> 06:07.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, now, I apologize if this is going to sound crazy, if we're going to have all kinds of voices talking at once.
[06:07.200 --> 06:08.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hopefully, it won't be the case.
[06:08.770 --> 06:10.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: But we're going to try to talk to as many people as possible.
[06:11.020 --> 06:16.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: What we're going to do now is try to three-way over to another phone in this phone system we have.
[06:16.940 --> 06:19.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to explain how this phone system works too, which is really incredible.
[06:19.920 --> 06:22.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: What these people have done is simply amazing.
[06:23.420 --> 06:29.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm going to tie in to Jeff, Bernie S., and Mike over in the Cypherpunk tent.
[06:29.040 --> 06:30.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I'm going to join them over there.
[06:30.740 --> 06:33.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then we're going to be wandering through the campgrounds.
[06:33.760 --> 06:35.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we'll take phone calls too.
[06:35.180 --> 06:35.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: And B.A.R.
[06:36.020 --> 06:39.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: listeners can interrogate us as to what exactly is going on.
[06:39.580 --> 06:46.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: So right now, I might be offline for about five seconds as I dial the extension and three-way over to these other people.
[06:46.460 --> 06:49.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: So if you hear dead air, don't panic.
[06:51.380 --> 06:51.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[06:52.060 --> 06:53.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: So that's going to begin right about now.
[06:54.780 --> 06:57.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: Gee, the thought of interrogating somebody outside Berlin.
[06:57.780 --> 07:01.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: That sounds like every bad TV show and movie of the 50s and 60s.
[07:04.440 --> 07:07.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: But catchy music works better on hold music.
[07:10.240 --> 07:10.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: Kraftwerk.
[07:11.120 --> 07:11.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[07:11.680 --> 07:12.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's some nice German music.
[07:13.300 --> 07:13.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sorry.
[07:14.280 --> 07:15.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did I interrupt the conversation?
[07:15.060 --> 07:16.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: We enjoyed your hold music.
[07:17.060 --> 07:18.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, it's Kraftwerk.
[07:18.480 --> 07:19.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: You got hold music?
[07:19.540 --> 07:20.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, Kraftwerk.
[07:20.740 --> 07:21.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, wow.
[07:21.160 --> 07:22.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was German hold music.
[07:22.960 --> 07:24.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Is there anything this phone system can't do?
[07:25.080 --> 07:27.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we just three-wayed over to...
[07:27.540 --> 07:28.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Who's on the other line?
[07:28.760 --> 07:29.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is Bernie S.
[07:29.600 --> 07:30.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bernie S.
[07:30.140 --> 07:30.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: How are you doing?
[07:31.960 --> 07:33.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm enjoying the open-air environment here.
[07:34.120 --> 07:34.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can see you.
[07:34.920 --> 07:35.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're only a few feet away from me.
[07:36.040 --> 07:38.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it looks like you are indeed enjoying the open-air environment.
[07:38.240 --> 07:42.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: Did you see the shooting star to the north about a minute ago?
[07:42.160 --> 07:42.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's a shooting star?
[07:43.220 --> 07:43.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
[07:43.620 --> 07:44.320]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's gone now.
[07:44.460 --> 07:45.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: There'll be more.
[07:45.740 --> 07:46.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you sure there'll be more?
[07:47.040 --> 07:47.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Because that was...
[07:47.760 --> 07:48.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm certain.
[07:49.060 --> 07:49.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's amazing.
[07:49.880 --> 07:52.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's so much light around here, but you can see so much in the way of stars.
[07:53.420 --> 07:54.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's simply phenomenal.
[07:55.500 --> 07:56.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, Bernie.
[07:56.340 --> 07:57.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, you just arrived here a little while ago.
[07:57.860 --> 08:01.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, we actually had to use celestial navigation to find the place.
[08:01.580 --> 08:03.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have a question for Bernie.
[08:03.520 --> 08:04.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Could he speak up a little bit?
[08:05.500 --> 08:05.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[08:06.060 --> 08:06.380]  [SPEAKER_05]: How's that?
[08:06.540 --> 08:06.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[08:07.920 --> 08:08.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[08:08.600 --> 08:08.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: Go ahead.
[08:09.460 --> 08:11.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: That was more of a command than a question.
[08:12.760 --> 08:16.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: We ended up using celestial navigation to find this space.
[08:18.500 --> 08:25.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: We found the Big Dipper and followed that to the North Star and then found West and then found the road that led to this.
[08:25.200 --> 08:27.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: Otherwise, we wouldn't have found it.
[08:28.080 --> 08:29.920]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're really going back to nature here.
[08:30.200 --> 08:31.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's really something.
[08:31.020 --> 08:33.080]  [SPEAKER_05]: We had a GPS unit, but that was of no help.
[08:33.080 --> 08:35.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, we used the old standby.
[08:36.300 --> 08:38.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have to tell you, the mood here is simply amazing.
[08:39.140 --> 08:41.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: As you arrive at a place...
[08:41.240 --> 08:44.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, I hear screaming in the distance, but that also happens.
[08:45.920 --> 08:53.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: As you arrive at a place like this, you realize for the next four or five days, you're going to be kind of cut off from civilization, sleeping in a tent, that kind of a thing.
[08:55.000 --> 09:02.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: And just when you start talking to people and realizing that all these people share common interests, and it's going to be a great time.
[09:02.140 --> 09:03.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's going to be a lot of fun.
[09:03.780 --> 09:06.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: And we're going to have all kinds of interesting experiences.
[09:06.760 --> 09:08.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, I'm really looking forward to it.
[09:08.440 --> 09:13.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: In another week, of course, we'll have the final perspective on this and see how things turned out.
[09:13.820 --> 09:18.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it looks like, from the beginning, it looks like it's really going to be going very well.
[09:18.820 --> 09:20.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: Things are very highly organized here.
[09:21.520 --> 09:23.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can feel a lot of energy in the air.
[09:23.210 --> 09:31.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and there is a lot of energy, literally, in the air, because this place is wired for electric and ethernet.
[09:31.450 --> 09:32.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's wireless going on.
[09:33.570 --> 09:34.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's a radio station here.
[09:34.780 --> 09:36.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's a radio station broadcasting.
[09:36.480 --> 09:37.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: People are DJing.
[09:38.480 --> 09:41.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's just really, it's been built.
[09:41.450 --> 09:42.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: The city has been built.
[09:42.210 --> 09:43.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to be talking to Rob in a few minutes.
[09:43.880 --> 09:44.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: He's been here since Monday.
[09:45.120 --> 09:46.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: And he can tell us how all that came about.
[09:47.330 --> 09:51.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: But I believe you guys have some people in the tent, inside the Cypherpunk tent.
[09:51.690 --> 09:55.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, I've got the wireless phone, so I've got to walk over there if you're going to...
[09:55.980 --> 09:56.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'll do that.
[09:57.160 --> 09:58.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have Mike and Jeff here also.
[09:58.720 --> 09:59.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Mike and Jeff.
[09:59.740 --> 10:01.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, let me say hi to those guys as well.
[10:04.500 --> 10:05.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello, Emmanuel.
[10:05.580 --> 10:06.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: How are you doing, Jeff?
[10:06.330 --> 10:07.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm doing fine.
[10:07.380 --> 10:07.520]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah?
[10:07.710 --> 10:10.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you just got here as well, not too long ago.
[10:10.330 --> 10:10.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, yeah.
[10:11.070 --> 10:11.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh-huh.
[10:11.780 --> 10:14.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, um, well, what are your first impressions of the place?
[10:15.400 --> 10:17.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, a little dusty in the parking lot.
[10:17.450 --> 10:17.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh-huh.
[10:17.840 --> 10:22.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, um, I was amazed at just how big this is, how many cars are already here.
[10:22.640 --> 10:23.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it doesn't even start until tomorrow.
[10:24.160 --> 10:24.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's right.
[10:24.780 --> 10:25.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's right.
[10:25.280 --> 10:25.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[10:25.500 --> 10:25.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's pretty interesting.
[10:26.860 --> 10:30.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, uh, and I believe, uh, Mike is there somewhere as well?
[10:30.140 --> 10:30.920]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, Mike's right here.
[10:31.040 --> 10:32.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, let me talk to Mike as well.
[10:32.840 --> 10:33.310]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hi, Emmanuel.
[10:33.740 --> 10:34.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, Mike.
[10:34.220 --> 10:34.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: How are you doing?
[10:34.710 --> 10:35.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm well.
[10:35.070 --> 10:35.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: How are you?
[10:41.260 --> 10:47.070]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, these guys, Bernie and Jeff, came by car, uh, and they were speeding on the Autobahn.
[10:47.140 --> 10:49.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: In fact, I think, um, I think Jeff is motioning.
[10:49.360 --> 10:50.950]  [SPEAKER_09]: I can, I can see him motioning in the distance.
[10:51.450 --> 10:53.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, you, you want to say something about the Autobahn, perhaps?
[10:53.830 --> 10:54.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[10:54.310 --> 11:05.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: It was, uh, it was very exciting to be able to drive a car at, well, 180 kilometers, which is about, um, what, 110 miles an hour for, for several hours at a time.
[11:05.800 --> 11:11.700]  [SPEAKER_10]: Um, and it's amazing the respect that people have on the road here when you don't make them go a certain speed.
[11:12.180 --> 11:14.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: They, they get out of your way automatically.
[11:14.120 --> 11:16.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: They come over to pass when they're supposed to.
[11:16.080 --> 11:17.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: They get back in the other lane.
[11:17.400 --> 11:20.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's just wonderful to see a society that works without rules.
[11:21.140 --> 11:24.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you know, I don't know if it's working without rules, just working with rules of common sense.
[11:24.500 --> 11:24.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[11:24.860 --> 11:25.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's a better way to put it.
[11:26.120 --> 11:35.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's, um, you know, it sort of ties in with what I was saying last, last week in Paris, where, you know, you're crossing a street with 10 lanes and, uh, there's no traffic light, but the cars don't just run over you.
[11:35.340 --> 11:41.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: They stop if somebody's crossing the street and, uh, pretty, people pretty much get, get by, uh, you know, on, on some logic.
[11:41.860 --> 11:54.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Like, yeah, for instance, um, in Amsterdam, uh, at night, a lot of traffic lights are simply flashing yellow lights and, uh, you don't have to stop and wait when nobody's around to make a left turn or something like that, like you do in the States, which is really pretty silly.
[11:54.820 --> 11:57.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, and yeah, the same thing here, but I believe...
[11:59.440 --> 12:01.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh-oh, did we lose the whole connection?
[12:01.980 --> 12:03.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think we did.
[12:04.720 --> 12:07.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's, uh, that's pretty, uh, pretty darn dead air.
[12:08.060 --> 12:10.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's, uh, yeah, okay, well, that's standard.
[12:10.480 --> 12:11.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, let's...
[12:11.120 --> 12:12.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, definitely lost connection.
[12:13.120 --> 12:17.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Definitely, that sounds like a connection loss, so, uh, I will go and get him back.
[12:17.840 --> 12:21.860]  [SPEAKER_16]: It must have something to do with the forwarding number, because that did happen last week, too.
[12:21.920 --> 12:23.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, interestingly enough.
[12:23.660 --> 12:37.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, you're listening to WBAI New York, 99.5 FM, and the show is off the hook, and it is going until 8 o'clock when the computer show comes on.
[12:37.980 --> 12:42.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, uh, as long as we've got dead air, we'll cover some things that we've covered in the past.
[12:42.620 --> 12:53.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, we got a lot of response to that, uh, filler from a week or two previously about, uh, numbers to report your suspected terrorist neighbors, or just the neighbors that you hate.
[12:54.360 --> 13:03.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, if you're connected to the web, uh, that old, uh, terrorist tip line that the FBI disconnected from the 800 number, well, you can still do it over the web.
[13:04.180 --> 13:18.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, the URL is HTTPS colon slash slash tips dot FBI dot gov, but they want you to provide your name, your mailing address, your email, and your phone number.
[13:18.840 --> 13:21.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, if you do a false report, it'll come back to haunt you.
[13:22.480 --> 13:24.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: But there's some other things that you can report.
[13:25.290 --> 13:32.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you are cut off by a trucker who happens to look, well, Middle Eastern or whatever, and you think...
[13:32.440 --> 13:33.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Terrorist truckers.
[13:33.560 --> 13:34.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: Terrorist truckers, right.
[13:35.480 --> 13:38.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, there's something called Highway Watch.
[13:39.460 --> 13:42.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, you get two hours of training.
[13:44.060 --> 13:51.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: And then they have a number to report, which is at 888-368-7238.
[13:51.520 --> 13:55.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm sure you could social engineer and say that you're one of them in the program.
[13:55.740 --> 14:00.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, this is run by the American Trucking Association, not directly by the federal government.
[14:00.840 --> 14:08.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, it's a little bit more of privatization of, uh, of, uh, what should be a government function.
[14:08.140 --> 14:12.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: Although, many of us think it really shouldn't be a government function, but that's another story.
[14:14.270 --> 14:17.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, what else have we got here?
[14:18.300 --> 14:20.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, collect calls.
[14:20.740 --> 14:39.360]  [SPEAKER_17]: If you think that that glow from your neighbor's garage is not just a neon sign, but something radioactive, call collect to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission's Incident Response Operations Center, they're in the middle of Colorado at 301-816-5100.
[14:41.780 --> 14:44.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: Of course, there are the ones that spell things.
[14:44.420 --> 14:45.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: Those are always fun.
[14:46.120 --> 14:46.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, U.S.
[14:46.880 --> 14:52.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: Customs, which is now the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Bureau of the Department of Homeland Security.
[14:53.900 --> 14:56.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, all sorts of things they want to hear about.
[14:57.060 --> 15:01.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, terrorist-related finances, smuggling, illegal online activities.
[15:01.400 --> 15:03.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, all us listeners know about that.
[15:04.100 --> 15:09.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: Telemarketing fraud, stolen or fake art, antiques, or forced convict or child labor.
[15:09.800 --> 15:13.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, their number is 1-800-BE-ALERT.
[15:14.460 --> 15:16.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: And we know the world needs more alerts.
[15:16.880 --> 15:18.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: They couldn't get 1-800-CUSTOMS?
[15:19.340 --> 15:20.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm sure that's something else.
[15:21.020 --> 15:21.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: If somebody wants to experiment...
[15:21.680 --> 15:22.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: Wonder what the name is.
[15:23.080 --> 15:24.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: 1-800-CUSTOMS?
[15:25.220 --> 15:25.400]  Hmm.
[15:25.780 --> 15:30.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we do not have Emmanuel, uh, back on the air, uh, because his phone is busy.
[15:30.840 --> 15:32.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sure he's talking to himself.
[15:33.680 --> 15:35.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Unaware, unaware that we've been disconnected.
[15:35.900 --> 15:36.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I think somebody...
[15:36.740 --> 15:38.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: I think he thinks he's talking to us.
[15:38.720 --> 15:43.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: I, um, he's gonna have to wait until he finally asks one of you guys to say something, and he doesn't.
[15:43.360 --> 15:45.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, that may be quite some time.
[15:45.520 --> 15:45.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: Who knows?
[15:46.280 --> 15:49.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, let me try, uh, one more time.
[15:49.600 --> 15:51.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, we've got plenty of numbers to fill the space.
[15:51.620 --> 15:51.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, we are.
[15:52.060 --> 15:54.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: We could fill the space in quite a number of ways.
[15:54.340 --> 15:56.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: After this, there's, there's even more things we can talk about.
[15:58.060 --> 16:00.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, where were we?
[16:00.400 --> 16:00.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, yeah.
[16:01.480 --> 16:03.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: Alcohol, tobacco, and firearms.
[16:03.660 --> 16:04.360]  [SPEAKER_17]: This is my favorite.
[16:04.600 --> 16:11.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: The people that gave you the start of the Waco incident, this is particularly good for all you right-wingers and libertarians.
[16:12.680 --> 16:19.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, they have a whole pile of lines which, fascinatingly, go to the same operator.
[16:19.460 --> 16:22.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: Which is sort of like having your cake and eating it, too.
[16:24.420 --> 16:31.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, for, for your neighbor's illegal guns, or, or just the guy down the block, you know, or just some guy you passed.
[16:31.360 --> 16:32.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: Doesn't have to be a neighbor.
[16:32.620 --> 16:34.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: 1-800-ATF-GUNS.
[16:35.180 --> 16:36.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: Pretty easy to remember.
[16:37.880 --> 16:43.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: If your neighbor is a pyromaniac and sets fire to something, there's, let's guess, guys.
[16:45.140 --> 16:45.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: ATF-FIRE.
[16:45.900 --> 16:47.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: Ah, but it's an 8-8-8 number.
[16:48.280 --> 16:49.360]  [SPEAKER_17]: Partial credit only.
[16:50.200 --> 16:55.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: What about if he decides that he wants to get rid of his dynamite and offers it to you at half price?
[16:56.720 --> 16:57.420]  [SPEAKER_17]: Come on.
[16:57.880 --> 16:58.100]  Hmm.
[16:59.360 --> 17:00.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: ATF bomb?
[17:00.340 --> 17:02.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, but is it, what, what's the, what's the exchange?
[17:03.620 --> 17:04.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm going to guess 800.
[17:05.240 --> 17:06.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, no, no.
[17:06.500 --> 17:07.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's 8-8-8.
[17:08.320 --> 17:12.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, and finally, their catch-all number for anything that makes you nervous.
[17:14.420 --> 17:16.260]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, ATF.
[17:16.260 --> 17:17.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's an 8-8-8 number.
[17:17.720 --> 17:18.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's ATF, yeah.
[17:19.460 --> 17:20.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: I have no idea.
[17:20.840 --> 17:21.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's TIPS.
[17:21.920 --> 17:22.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: ATF TIPS.
[17:23.080 --> 17:25.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: 1-8-8-8-8-8-8-8-A-T-F TIPS.
[17:25.700 --> 17:34.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: For anything the alcohol and tobacco and firearms people can handle that doesn't, uh, fall under guns, fire, or bomb.
[17:35.040 --> 17:36.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: I would guess that would be alcohol.
[17:36.660 --> 17:37.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: Probably.
[17:37.400 --> 17:37.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hmm.
[17:38.140 --> 17:39.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, that's what covers it.
[17:39.940 --> 17:42.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, of course, there's the old traditional standby.
[17:43.440 --> 17:49.500]  [SPEAKER_17]: This is the one that all you people interested in vengeance, proper or improperly.
[17:50.220 --> 17:52.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: Is this the Child Protection Agency?
[17:52.360 --> 17:53.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, no, no.
[17:53.240 --> 17:56.660]  [SPEAKER_17]: I figure that's just so open to abuse.
[17:56.790 --> 17:58.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I hate to use that as a pun.
[17:58.980 --> 18:13.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Actually, when I was last here two weeks ago, someone who was in the studio, A-Team, mentioned to me after the fact, because we spoke about it, that he actually knew someone who had no children and yet was harassed by the Child Protection.
[18:13.790 --> 18:18.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: I have heard many of those stories, and many of them are true, sadly, yes.
[18:18.790 --> 18:25.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: But on the other hand, you know, you have to consider that better they should check it out than not.
[18:25.220 --> 18:33.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I would think with child abuse, they would find negative information a lot quicker than many of these other government agencies would.
[18:33.940 --> 18:36.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, yes, if they don't have any children, that's a pretty quick solution.
[18:36.510 --> 18:37.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: Pretty quick solution.
[18:37.400 --> 18:42.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: But, you know, you could be running illegal daycare out of your cramped 250-square-foot apartment.
[18:42.800 --> 18:59.010]  [SPEAKER_17]: But anyway, the old traditional one is, of course, the IRS, your ex-spouse, your lawyer, your banker, whoever you really want to get back at, 1-800-829-0433.
[19:00.030 --> 19:02.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: You can turn in the person for just about anything.
[19:02.680 --> 19:11.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I believe that you get a PIN number or you generate, you give them a number so that you can get the reward for doing this.
[19:13.470 --> 19:15.420]  [SPEAKER_17]: But that's it for 800 numbers.
[19:15.420 --> 19:28.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: As you can tell by now, we've made another attempt at Emmanuel, who is blissfully walking through a field in Germany, thankfully not full of cow chips, thinking that he's being as witty and erudite as ever.
[19:28.120 --> 19:31.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: And he probably is, but we'll never have proof of that.
[19:34.220 --> 19:35.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we're here.
[19:35.860 --> 19:36.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Now I wonder.
[19:36.460 --> 19:41.620]  [SPEAKER_16]: I mean, it's a field and it's camping, but they have Ethernet and power cable.
[19:41.680 --> 19:44.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: There must be some sort of, you know, skewed view of nature.
[19:44.580 --> 19:47.080]  [SPEAKER_16]: You've got Ethernet and power running through the grass.
[19:47.080 --> 19:58.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, yes, but it's like, as I was making jokes about war movies and interrogations outside Berlin, you ever see war movies where you see the guys laying cable for field telephones?
[19:58.820 --> 20:04.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: I mean, all right, I'll admit that the cable is a lot thicker and there's 30 times as much.
[20:04.250 --> 20:06.960]  [SPEAKER_16]: Do you think it's underground or do you think they're just throwing it out?
[20:07.030 --> 20:08.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, they're not throwing it out.
[20:08.560 --> 20:10.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: They're laying it out in rows.
[20:11.560 --> 20:13.220]  [SPEAKER_17]: It just seems a little strange.
[20:13.420 --> 20:16.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: It looks like a refugee camp, but cool, okay?
[20:16.790 --> 20:19.290]  [SPEAKER_17]: So there are rows of cable laid out.
[20:19.420 --> 20:20.420]  [SPEAKER_17]: And of course, there are no fences.
[20:21.530 --> 20:22.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: I don't know if there are fences.
[20:24.120 --> 20:25.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: I haven't been there, I'll admit.
[20:26.040 --> 20:29.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's going to be a while until I am in a foreign country, but we won't discuss that.
[20:30.900 --> 20:35.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: No, with the wireless, the 802B11 is no problem.
[20:35.640 --> 20:36.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm a WBAI.
[20:36.800 --> 20:37.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: It is 7.4.
[20:37.750 --> 20:45.340]  [SPEAKER_17]: And, uh, so, so, uh, they have that, they have the cable, they have the phone lines.
[20:45.360 --> 20:48.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: Most people have wireless, you know, cell phones.
[20:49.530 --> 20:53.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's not like it's something that can't be lifted off the ground.
[20:57.040 --> 21:01.320]  [SPEAKER_17]: And once again, our third try for a manual has gone by the way.
[21:01.380 --> 21:03.030]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, at least we've left a voicemail.
[21:05.140 --> 21:05.620]  [SPEAKER_17]: So.
[21:06.480 --> 21:12.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: So, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's obvious afterwards that the field has been used, but it's not like Woodstock.
[21:13.880 --> 21:22.340]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I was just saying, it would be a kind of, I mean, when you think of camping, you don't think of running wires all over the place in order to remain completely connected.
[21:22.600 --> 21:24.440]  [SPEAKER_16]: It just seems like a skewed view of...
[21:24.440 --> 21:35.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'm hoping one of those wires, uh, has somebody on his computer listening to this show, uh, via the Internet and, uh, can run and tell a manual that he's off the air.
[21:35.440 --> 21:36.920]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, why didn't we think of this before?
[21:37.360 --> 21:42.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Because he's still talking, uh, I, I called his cell phone and all I could do is leave a message.
[21:43.940 --> 21:50.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, his special system worked wonderful, uh, until it dropped out and he didn't know.
[21:50.880 --> 21:56.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: Or, or perhaps if, if it is a malfunction of the forwarding number, then maybe that's just...
[21:57.200 --> 21:58.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, maybe he's...
[21:58.580 --> 22:01.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, he said, they said they were testing out the phone system and...
[22:01.760 --> 22:01.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's true.
[22:02.020 --> 22:04.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: ...if it worked out well, he'd tell us how it works.
[22:04.940 --> 22:06.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess we'll never know how it works.
[22:07.140 --> 22:07.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[22:08.220 --> 22:09.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: It could be, could be.
[22:10.240 --> 22:17.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, well, I've been calling every, uh, 30 seconds and, uh, getting that wonderful busy signal.
[22:17.460 --> 22:20.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: Sounds the same, uh, in Germany as this year.
[22:20.440 --> 22:25.800]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh, it might, see that, that's where I think it might be a malfunction of the forwarding number.
[22:26.560 --> 22:31.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, you're listening to WBAI New York 99.5 FM.
[22:31.740 --> 22:32.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is Off the Hook.
[22:33.000 --> 22:36.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's here every Wednesday evening from 7 p.m.
[22:36.940 --> 22:37.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: till 8 p.m.
[22:37.860 --> 22:39.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: when the computer show comes on.
[22:39.380 --> 22:41.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: And Emmanuel Goldstein is live...
[22:42.560 --> 22:43.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: But missing in action.
[22:43.500 --> 22:45.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: ...in Berlin, but he doesn't realize he's not connected.
[22:46.320 --> 22:49.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, uh, uh, we have here in the studio...
[22:49.380 --> 22:51.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have Jim, Red Act, and Mish.
[22:52.240 --> 22:55.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, uh, they'll be talking to you while, uh, I try to...
[22:55.780 --> 22:57.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Get Emmanuel back.
[22:57.820 --> 22:58.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Carry on, folks.
[22:59.220 --> 23:08.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, if anything, he's not listening by a shortwave, because I was also in the middle of nowhere last week and attempting to listen to the show, and that didn't work out too well.
[23:08.660 --> 23:09.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: I had a shortwave radio.
[23:09.540 --> 23:14.300]  [SPEAKER_16]: I'm standing on a mountain, pointing it to the sky, and sadly, all I could hear was the word Amsterdam.
[23:14.920 --> 23:16.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Were you able to get other stations?
[23:17.000 --> 23:28.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I mean, the station, whatever they were using is obviously not a very strong one, because I was picking up other stations on the same frequency that were very strong, but they were not what I was wanting.
[23:28.220 --> 23:30.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, you were trying to get what, Chaos's, uh...
[23:30.740 --> 23:33.040]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, I was, I was attempting to pick up, uh...
[23:33.040 --> 23:33.520]  [SPEAKER_16]: Off the hook.
[23:33.720 --> 23:37.880]  [SPEAKER_16]: Off the hook, on whichever station, 7415 kilohertz.
[23:38.320 --> 23:39.660]  [SPEAKER_16]: And very unsuccessfully.
[23:39.920 --> 23:47.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, hopefully somebody in Germany at the Chaos Computer Camp is listening to this on a shortwave, and will go find Emmanuel, and...
[23:47.600 --> 23:49.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: I could, I could see someone running around the camp.
[23:50.040 --> 23:51.320]  [SPEAKER_16]: I would hope so, but you never know.
[23:51.320 --> 23:52.060]  [SPEAKER_16]: Looking for him.
[23:52.200 --> 23:53.020]  [SPEAKER_17]: Probably everybody is...
[23:53.020 --> 23:54.820]  [SPEAKER_16]: Maybe we should describe him as...
[23:54.820 --> 24:02.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: He's a tall, tall, Caucasian-American guy with long, dark hair, probably wearing a baseball cap.
[24:03.700 --> 24:05.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: He walks slightly hunched.
[24:08.180 --> 24:10.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: You wouldn't be laughing if it wasn't true.
[24:11.020 --> 24:14.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, and he's, he's very energetic most of the time.
[24:14.240 --> 24:17.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: I would guess even now he's more energetic and even agitated.
[24:17.340 --> 24:19.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm sure he's wearing a 2600 shirt today.
[24:19.340 --> 24:20.300]  [SPEAKER_17]: Probably, probably.
[24:20.460 --> 24:20.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: That might help.
[24:20.760 --> 24:24.420]  [SPEAKER_17]: He may be wearing a, I don't know what the temperature currently is in Berlin.
[24:24.820 --> 24:36.580]  [SPEAKER_17]: But if it's cool out there, he's probably wearing a dark blue jacket, which may either have a 2600 logo on it, or a law enforcement logo of some type, FBI, DEA.
[24:37.580 --> 24:42.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, he hasn't obtained this illegally, so don't, uh, don't think you're turning in a manual to an 800 number.
[24:42.840 --> 24:43.540]  [SPEAKER_17]: I haven't given you.
[24:44.900 --> 24:47.000]  [SPEAKER_17]: So what else is new in the world of hacking, guys?
[24:47.520 --> 24:49.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: Anything, uh, pressing?
[24:49.740 --> 24:50.180]  [SPEAKER_16]: Upcoming?
[24:50.280 --> 24:54.400]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know if we went into it, but, uh, there, I, I did look up that.
[24:54.400 --> 25:00.140]  [SPEAKER_16]: What was discussed last week about the, uh, insider trading in terms of, before September 11th.
[25:00.220 --> 25:01.420]  [SPEAKER_16]: And that did actually happen.
[25:01.780 --> 25:06.220]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, unfortunately I didn't think I'd be filling dead air, so I didn't look into it much.
[25:06.220 --> 25:06.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, no, that's interesting.
[25:06.920 --> 25:09.120]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it was true, and there were a lot of reports about it.
[25:09.160 --> 25:23.140]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm not going to contradict you, but I'm going to say I wasn't able to look it up, but I did come across a throwaway time in a New York Times article which said that it, they investigated it and it didn't occur, so I guess we're going to have to look into that some more.
[25:23.300 --> 25:24.980]  [SPEAKER_17]: I believe we have a connection again.
[25:25.460 --> 25:25.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: There we go.
[25:26.280 --> 25:27.180]  [SPEAKER_17]: Do we have a connection?
[25:27.420 --> 25:27.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yes.
[25:28.200 --> 25:28.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[25:32.480 --> 25:33.480]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, we're waiting.
[25:33.480 --> 25:35.760]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're waiting to be put through to him.
[25:35.980 --> 25:38.380]  [SPEAKER_16]: He's on the phone with Ken right now.
[25:38.620 --> 25:40.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Oh, I don't think it's a manual, but, uh...
[25:40.740 --> 25:41.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, we do not hear about life thinking.
[25:42.120 --> 25:43.700]  [SPEAKER_17]: We're, we're, we're still...
[25:43.700 --> 25:44.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: No, it is a manual.
[25:45.120 --> 25:49.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: They're just going over what he, what he discussed while he was going on about himself.
[25:49.580 --> 25:54.500]  [SPEAKER_16]: Perhaps, perhaps we might suggest that he checks in with us every several minutes.
[25:54.860 --> 25:58.400]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yes, the quality of the show is going to improve in just a few seconds, folks, so...
[25:58.400 --> 25:58.960]  [SPEAKER_17]: Just hold on.
[25:59.220 --> 25:59.780]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, yeah.
[26:00.500 --> 26:02.740]  [SPEAKER_17]: I, I know we're, we're not, not worthy, but...
[26:02.740 --> 26:03.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hold on, watch this one.
[26:04.480 --> 26:05.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: Why don't you just patch him in?
[26:05.980 --> 26:06.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hold it, hold it, hold it.
[26:07.700 --> 26:09.860]  [SPEAKER_17]: We're trying to figure out exactly where it broke off.
[26:09.880 --> 26:10.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right now, you're not in the air.
[26:10.580 --> 26:12.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: So let me put you on the air and you can tell everybody this.
[26:12.420 --> 26:13.560]  [SPEAKER_17]: One, one second, folks.
[26:13.700 --> 26:13.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[26:14.060 --> 26:14.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: Next voice you hear.
[26:15.280 --> 26:16.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: Should be his.
[26:18.950 --> 26:19.530]  We're hoping.
[26:21.730 --> 26:22.590]  [SPEAKER_17]: Unless it's not.
[26:25.170 --> 26:25.890]  And it's...
[26:27.310 --> 26:27.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello?
[26:28.330 --> 26:29.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, we're...
[26:29.050 --> 26:29.850]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay, um...
[26:29.850 --> 26:32.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: You, you, you cut out a very, very long time ago.
[26:32.650 --> 26:33.130]  [SPEAKER_16]: We, we, we did...
[26:33.130 --> 26:33.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you see, here's the thing.
[26:34.350 --> 26:35.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's the thing.
[26:35.270 --> 26:39.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, first of all, I just told my whole story to Ken, not realizing I wasn't on the air.
[26:39.290 --> 26:40.650]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's sort of a double whammy here.
[26:41.090 --> 26:51.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, but, uh, apparently this phone system that we're using, not the, not the one here, but the one we're using in America that gets here, apparently it has a little feature they don't tell you about where they cut you off after 20 minutes.
[26:52.390 --> 26:57.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, once we verify that, we're going to expose these people for, for the idiots they are.
[26:58.510 --> 27:00.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, we interviewed everybody in the room here.
[27:01.930 --> 27:07.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, apparently, uh, we had no idea we were cut off because apparently there's no way to know that.
[27:07.430 --> 27:11.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, you could ask us every several minutes whether or not you're still with us.
[27:11.590 --> 27:13.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll tell you when 20 minutes is coming.
[27:13.450 --> 27:17.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hopefully people here won't mind, uh, maybe a little briefly, just saying what they said again.
[27:18.190 --> 27:22.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and then, uh, we can, we can take that, uh, long promise trip across the field.
[27:22.550 --> 27:27.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, and we will check with you in the studio to make sure you're still there after each person, uh, talks to us.
[27:27.370 --> 27:27.690]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[27:28.250 --> 27:28.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[27:28.890 --> 27:31.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, hopefully we didn't leave you with, uh, with too much space to fill.
[27:32.350 --> 27:38.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, this is, this is really embarrassing because we really had some good interviews just now, but unfortunately, well, we heard them.
[27:38.790 --> 27:39.130]  [SPEAKER_09]: We heard them.
[27:39.210 --> 27:39.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's all that matters.
[27:40.950 --> 27:46.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, he is, uh, one of the, uh, leading, uh, um, lock picking experts in the, in the world.
[27:47.430 --> 27:51.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, tell us quickly about the, about the, uh, what you told us before.
[27:53.110 --> 28:02.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, we all know the feeling of deja vu, but anyway, uh, uh, no, I was telling before that there is a big village here called lock pick village.
[28:02.990 --> 28:16.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, uh, in the village, uh, there's a main tent and in the main tent, uh, lock pickers from all over the world are, are practicing, uh, with, with lock picking and people are showing their new techniques and the new tools that they created for specific locks.
[28:18.090 --> 28:25.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, around this big tent are the little tents where the people, uh, live in, that they brought the tents themselves and they just live there.
[28:26.350 --> 28:29.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, but at this moment I'm not in the lock pick tent.
[28:29.230 --> 28:45.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm in the crypto tent in the crypto village because the, the complete camp is separated in different villages and I'm now in the, in state of analog locks.
[28:45.830 --> 28:56.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: And one of the people who are very good at this is, uh, for instance, Bill SF, and I will, uh, put you through to Bill SF and hope that he can, uh, tell an interesting story as he did 10 minutes ago.
[28:56.830 --> 28:57.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Here you go, Bill.
[28:59.030 --> 29:00.390]  [SPEAKER_19]: Hi, this is Bill SF.
[29:00.570 --> 29:01.690]  [SPEAKER_19]: I will try to do it quickly.
[29:02.210 --> 29:05.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, uh, by the way, uh, does anyone in New York hear me?
[29:05.890 --> 29:06.470]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, we hear you.
[29:06.650 --> 29:07.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: Good thing.
[29:07.310 --> 29:08.150]  [SPEAKER_19]: Okay, that's good.
[29:08.290 --> 29:08.630]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, okay.
[29:09.170 --> 29:11.350]  [SPEAKER_19]: So, uh, I'm really on the air this time.
[29:11.750 --> 29:13.670]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, last time was just a dress rehearsal.
[29:14.050 --> 29:24.230]  [SPEAKER_19]: I made a comment that, uh, it was very interesting that, uh, you can drop by the lock pick, uh, tent and, uh, uh, uh, even go as far as, uh, by tools for lock picking.
[29:24.510 --> 29:29.830]  [SPEAKER_19]: This assumes that you are, uh, a member of, uh, some legitimate organization that, uh, does it as a sport.
[29:29.970 --> 29:36.570]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I must say that it is very interesting and relaxing to, uh, just kick back and, uh, play with the lock until it opens.
[29:36.830 --> 29:38.650]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, that's just the analog of fashion.
[29:39.170 --> 29:47.530]  [SPEAKER_19]: Also, uh, uh, I was asked if it was possible to blue box anymore because I'm pretty well known, uh, as the phone phreak.
[29:47.750 --> 29:49.850]  [SPEAKER_19]: I mean, at least the phone phreak of modern times.
[29:50.090 --> 30:04.450]  [SPEAKER_19]: And, uh, uh, uh, indeed it is possible to blue box, uh, very commonly, uh, done in North America and, uh, also in the Middle East and, uh, certainly in, uh, underdeveloped places like Africa and, uh, wherever.
[30:05.570 --> 30:11.010]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, since time is probably running somewhat short, I should probably hand this phone on to the next victim.
[30:11.210 --> 30:13.130]  [SPEAKER_19]: And I'm not really sure who that is.
[30:13.510 --> 30:17.050]  [SPEAKER_19]: Uh, it's, uh, going, uh, to a manual now.
[30:18.350 --> 30:23.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to, uh, I'm actually going to three-way the other phone again, uh, because, uh, that way we can get two lines in here.
[30:23.750 --> 30:25.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, are you guys still there?
[30:25.330 --> 30:25.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[30:26.050 --> 30:26.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, good.
[30:26.970 --> 30:30.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hold on one moment while I do this and then, uh, we'll, we'll go on to the next person.
[30:43.490 --> 30:44.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's Emmanuel's hold music.
[30:45.110 --> 30:46.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you guys, uh, back?
[30:46.750 --> 30:48.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we were just listening to your hold music.
[30:48.990 --> 30:49.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: It wasn't the crafter.
[30:49.950 --> 30:52.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: We have a listener from Holland who, uh, wants to say hi.
[30:52.530 --> 30:54.290]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, sorry to put you through this again, but go ahead.
[30:55.850 --> 31:04.730]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, as a, well, as a three-year listener of the show, I must say that I mostly, I'm here because, uh, well, it's interesting.
[31:05.290 --> 31:10.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, but also because, uh, Emmanuel has been for weeks has been telling people to go.
[31:10.870 --> 31:10.990]  [SPEAKER_03]: So.
[31:11.270 --> 31:12.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I actually got somebody in Holland.
[31:12.730 --> 31:14.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: I actually got someone in Holland too.
[31:14.450 --> 31:14.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: To go to this.
[31:15.030 --> 31:15.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's great.
[31:15.710 --> 31:15.710]  Yeah.
[31:16.130 --> 31:22.210]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, hopefully we got, we got people from America as well to show up and maybe they'll show up in the next, uh, few days, but there are, there are Americans here.
[31:22.610 --> 31:22.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[31:23.490 --> 31:26.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anybody that doesn't come to this thing is really missing out a great time.
[31:26.610 --> 31:29.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, because it's, it's just, it's in the air.
[31:29.370 --> 31:31.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: You can tell it's just amazing things are going to happen.
[31:32.710 --> 31:34.530]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, so, uh, it's, it's great.
[31:34.630 --> 31:35.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: How long have you been listening to Off the Hook for?
[31:36.190 --> 31:37.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, well, about three years now.
[31:38.930 --> 31:48.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I was a bit off and on, but, uh, occasionally I, uh, backlog everything and, uh, uh, well, that's, that's, that's, that's where to do it.
[31:49.030 --> 31:54.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's, uh, we need, we need our listeners and, uh, and, and that's, it's good to meet listeners here.
[31:54.270 --> 31:57.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: We just ran into you outside and hopefully there'll be a lot more people as well.
[31:57.810 --> 32:06.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Actually, uh, Bernie, can you, can you take the phone and wander around the room sort of like Phil Donahue style and, and, uh, and then we'll, we'll start moving around, uh, on the field.
[32:07.010 --> 32:08.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, this is not Phil Donahue.
[32:08.250 --> 32:12.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: This is Bernie S and, uh, we have, uh, Tice from, uh, Belgium.
[32:12.250 --> 32:12.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: Belgium.
[32:12.730 --> 32:18.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: Uh, originally from Holland and Belgium and now back to Holland and, and, uh, here's Tice.
[32:19.070 --> 32:19.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[32:19.630 --> 32:19.810]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi.
[32:19.990 --> 32:30.250]  [SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to tell y'all to know it's pretty gray here and you can come and, um, well, Jeff didn't destroy my car driving through Germany way too fast.
[32:30.970 --> 32:35.050]  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, well, just everybody come, I guess.
[32:35.710 --> 32:36.110]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[32:36.310 --> 32:36.550]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[32:36.690 --> 32:43.810]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, well, you know, if you haven't come here yet, it might be a little late, but, uh, if you have a, you know, a Leo jet, just get in it and head over Hanukkah.
[32:44.090 --> 32:44.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: How are you doing?
[32:44.710 --> 32:44.710]  Hi.
[32:44.810 --> 32:45.130]  [SPEAKER_12]: How are you?
[32:45.190 --> 32:45.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm doing fine.
[32:46.030 --> 32:46.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[32:46.490 --> 32:48.370]  [SPEAKER_12]: Actually, I don't really have anything to say, you know.
[32:48.510 --> 32:49.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, you said a lot before.
[32:51.190 --> 33:00.270]  [SPEAKER_09]: Unfortunately, it didn't go out of the air, but, uh, but, uh, Hanukkah, you've been involved in, uh, in all the, uh, all the Dutch, uh, uh, hacker gatherings.
[33:00.590 --> 33:01.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, how does this compare?
[33:02.830 --> 33:06.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, well, the Germans, um, they certainly have the decoration rights.
[33:06.550 --> 33:08.190]  [SPEAKER_12]: It looks so nice here.
[33:08.350 --> 33:10.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: It has this, this fairy-like atmosphere.
[33:10.510 --> 33:11.210]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's really beautiful.
[33:11.630 --> 33:15.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, but I'm really looking forward to the workshops and, uh, tomorrow.
[33:16.150 --> 33:16.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: What?
[33:16.830 --> 33:17.770]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is it still on there?
[33:18.010 --> 33:18.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh.
[33:19.190 --> 33:20.330]  [SPEAKER_12]: Should I keep talking?
[33:20.550 --> 33:21.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: You should definitely keep talking.
[33:21.790 --> 33:22.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[33:22.110 --> 33:22.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[33:22.410 --> 33:23.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: I thought we were off the air again.
[33:26.290 --> 33:27.110]  [SPEAKER_12]: We might be.
[33:27.290 --> 33:27.410]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay.
[33:27.470 --> 33:27.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: You never know.
[33:28.010 --> 33:28.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'll just keep talking.
[33:28.750 --> 33:30.510]  [SPEAKER_17]: We're still here in New York.
[33:30.530 --> 33:31.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: We're still there.
[33:31.190 --> 33:31.430]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[33:31.610 --> 33:31.750]  [SPEAKER_12]: Great.
[33:31.950 --> 33:32.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good to hear that.
[33:33.370 --> 33:35.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, well, it's really cool here.
[33:35.850 --> 33:38.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm really looking forward to the lectures and workshops tomorrow.
[33:39.110 --> 33:40.810]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, um, I think it's going to be interesting.
[33:40.810 --> 33:48.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, if there's anybody, um, in Europe or close by who can still come, just get in your car or get on the train and come over here to Berlin.
[33:52.040 --> 33:52.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you still?
[33:52.920 --> 33:53.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[33:53.520 --> 33:55.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, we have, we have Tim here who wants to say hi.
[33:57.500 --> 33:58.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Howdy out there.
[33:58.760 --> 33:59.160]  [SPEAKER_17]: Hello.
[33:59.340 --> 33:59.600]  [SPEAKER_17]: Howdy.
[34:01.880 --> 34:02.280]  Okay.
[34:02.280 --> 34:09.380]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, um, basically I'm not a, um, I must confess I'm not a, I'm not an after hook listener yet.
[34:09.800 --> 34:15.200]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm actually, I'm in the show before I ever listened to it.
[34:15.660 --> 34:21.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, I apologize hereby and, um, I'm not worthy and I'll try to catch up.
[34:22.180 --> 34:23.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Give me back that phone.
[34:25.300 --> 34:27.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: Eric wants the phone back, but no, it's way too much fun.
[34:30.520 --> 34:34.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, yeah, basically I'm here for, uh, a vacation as well.
[34:34.240 --> 34:36.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: And, uh, uh, not so much for the fun.
[34:36.520 --> 34:38.460]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, I did it on, on previous events.
[34:38.660 --> 34:41.220]  [SPEAKER_04]: I gave a few talks about different things.
[34:42.220 --> 34:51.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, right now I'm not doing any projects, but basically talking to people and getting new ideas for new, interesting things to do.
[34:52.960 --> 34:54.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: And that's basically what I'm here for.
[34:55.060 --> 34:56.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: What, what talks did you give before?
[34:56.940 --> 34:57.700]  [SPEAKER_16]: Like what was the topic?
[34:58.000 --> 34:58.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: What did I do?
[34:58.940 --> 35:12.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: Uh, uh, for example, in Hull 2001, I, I, I did something on cracking digital watermarks, but perhaps I shouldn't say that because if I ever want to get in the U.S., uh, they might arrest me at the, at the gate.
[35:12.680 --> 35:15.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, officially you haven't heard that.
[35:17.960 --> 35:18.880]  [SPEAKER_17]: It's, it's okay.
[35:19.200 --> 35:23.240]  [SPEAKER_17]: We haven't given out any, any hotline, uh, numbers for immigration.
[35:24.020 --> 35:25.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's an inside joke for New Yorkers.
[35:25.760 --> 35:26.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's a hotline for immigration.
[35:26.740 --> 35:30.820]  [SPEAKER_04]: I, I'm, I don't intend to, uh, to immigrate, by the way.
[35:31.220 --> 35:33.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, vacation is good enough.
[35:34.080 --> 35:34.360]  Okay.
[35:35.580 --> 35:36.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[35:36.160 --> 35:36.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[35:36.760 --> 35:37.060]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[35:37.300 --> 35:37.620]  [SPEAKER_04]: Welcome.
[35:39.100 --> 35:39.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[35:39.500 --> 35:43.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: What we're going to do now is, uh, me and, and, and Rob has not yet said anything.
[35:43.420 --> 35:45.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, I, and I think we're going to take Bernie S.
[35:45.420 --> 35:45.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: with us.
[35:45.740 --> 35:48.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to walk across the camp field and, and see what we can see along the way.
[35:49.000 --> 35:51.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, and, um, New York, are you still there?
[35:51.600 --> 35:52.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: We are still here.
[35:52.380 --> 35:54.940]  [SPEAKER_17]: In fact, we have a question that so relates to what you just said.
[35:54.940 --> 35:55.480]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[35:55.720 --> 36:02.840]  [SPEAKER_17]: Uh, during the dead air in the filler, we were wondering about the, the field and, and the layout of, of the wiring.
[36:03.180 --> 36:06.720]  [SPEAKER_16]: You said you had ethernet, you had, uh, landline phone lines.
[36:06.840 --> 36:11.980]  [SPEAKER_16]: For me, it just seemed like you're camping, but at the same time, it's not really because you're still completely connected.
[36:12.420 --> 36:19.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, this is probably a, a, a better question for Rob as far as, um, um, uh, how it's all technically set up.
[36:19.520 --> 36:27.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, what they want to know is, uh, is this really camping with all the, uh, all the Ethernet and all the, the microwave relays and whatever else we have around us?
[36:28.400 --> 36:33.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Um, well, first of all, can you give us a sort of an idea as to, um, uh, how it's all set up?
[36:34.240 --> 36:34.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sorry.
[36:35.880 --> 36:38.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob has this, has this flashlight on his head.
[36:38.400 --> 36:42.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: It looks like a, it looks like a coal miner as we're walking through the camp field here.
[36:42.360 --> 36:43.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: So it's kind of hard to ask a serious question.
[36:44.240 --> 36:49.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, but actually, Rob, that's what I asked you.
[36:49.200 --> 36:50.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you have any other questions, ask the people in New York.
[36:51.780 --> 36:52.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello, New York.
[36:52.920 --> 36:53.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hello, Rob.
[36:54.120 --> 36:54.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hi there.
[36:55.260 --> 36:56.700]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, what's all set up here?
[36:56.780 --> 36:58.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is basically a field.
[36:58.240 --> 36:59.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's normally a horse farm.
[37:00.360 --> 37:03.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's about, I would say it's about 10 U.S.
[37:03.560 --> 37:05.020]  [SPEAKER_07]: acres or something like that.
[37:05.920 --> 37:10.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, uh, they have set up, uh, Internet through a microwave link.
[37:11.820 --> 37:16.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, the microwave link is 155 megabits and it connects to some site in Berlin.
[37:16.680 --> 37:21.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think it's the building that hosts, also hosts one of the Internet exchanges here.
[37:21.620 --> 37:27.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they have peering with, with a number of providers here to get that bandwidth out to the rest of the world.
[37:27.680 --> 37:30.460]  [SPEAKER_16]: How far away is the, uh, is the camp from Berlin?
[37:31.580 --> 37:34.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, we are, I don't even know.
[37:34.220 --> 37:40.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think we're about, from the center of Berlin, we're about 35 kilometers out would be my guess, but I'm not sure.
[37:41.520 --> 37:43.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we're, we're northeast of Berlin.
[37:44.880 --> 37:45.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: Interesting.
[37:45.320 --> 37:55.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, as far as the rest of the, of the stuff, there's, there's like 200 kilowatts of power coming from the, from the power system, from the, from the normal power system.
[37:56.220 --> 38:04.320]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then there's about 700 kilowatts of power that's being generated by three diesel generators that are here on the field.
[38:04.640 --> 38:08.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then it's distributed to these boxes that are everywhere around us.
[38:08.480 --> 38:10.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: There are orange boxes that are everywhere.
[38:10.500 --> 38:12.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: And from there, it's distributed to all these tents.
[38:15.700 --> 38:16.740]  [SPEAKER_16]: Wow, that's...
[38:16.740 --> 38:18.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, yeah, it's major infrastructure.
[38:18.460 --> 38:20.440]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's the right way to go camping.
[38:22.700 --> 38:24.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: That answers the questions here.
[38:25.380 --> 38:25.900]  [SPEAKER_17]: Sorry?
[38:26.160 --> 38:27.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: That answers our questions here.
[38:28.540 --> 38:28.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[38:29.700 --> 38:30.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Glad to answer them.
[38:30.660 --> 38:31.380]  [SPEAKER_07]: Here's Eric back.
[38:31.480 --> 38:32.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: He wants to phone.
[38:33.220 --> 38:37.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, yeah, we're walking... we've walked clear across part of the field.
[38:38.500 --> 38:40.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: Believe it or not, there's a Thai restaurant here.
[38:41.720 --> 38:43.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's a tent set up.
[38:43.220 --> 38:46.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: It looks very Thai-ish architecture.
[38:46.480 --> 38:50.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they're making Thai food there, and people are lining up for it.
[38:51.080 --> 38:52.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: A lot of things you just would not expect.
[38:53.920 --> 38:56.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, what's that thing called where people are spinning themselves around?
[38:57.080 --> 38:57.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: You see it straight ahead.
[39:00.020 --> 39:10.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a metal construction with concentric rings that can turn inside each other, and the central ring holds a person, sort of like the lawnmower man.
[39:10.600 --> 39:12.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: Oh, it's called an Orbitron.
[39:13.480 --> 39:15.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, whatever it's called.
[39:15.420 --> 39:18.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: It spins you around, and it makes you really nauseous, but it's fun.
[39:21.140 --> 39:21.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Emmanuel.
[39:23.140 --> 39:24.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Don't eat the Thai food.
[39:24.840 --> 39:25.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Emmanuel.
[39:25.960 --> 39:26.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hold on.
[39:27.760 --> 39:29.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we were just saying.
[39:29.260 --> 39:31.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's very close to the Thai tent, so...
[39:31.900 --> 39:32.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Emmanuel?
[39:32.940 --> 39:33.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[39:34.140 --> 39:35.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are they still serving?
[39:36.200 --> 39:37.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Thai place is...
[39:37.380 --> 39:38.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think it's serving anymore.
[39:39.120 --> 39:39.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[39:39.540 --> 39:41.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Which is probably why people are spinning now.
[39:41.320 --> 39:42.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, then don't put my order in.
[39:42.820 --> 39:43.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[39:43.320 --> 39:44.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: I should also...
[39:44.220 --> 39:45.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: New York, are you still there?
[39:45.220 --> 39:45.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: We are.
[39:45.640 --> 39:46.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[39:46.840 --> 39:50.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: If this phone system does what I suspect it does, we might get cut off again.
[39:50.780 --> 39:52.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: If that happens, just call us back.
[39:52.720 --> 39:54.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to keep checking with you to make sure you're actually still there.
[39:55.260 --> 39:56.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's probably very shortly.
[39:56.080 --> 39:57.680]  [SPEAKER_09]: The one flaw of the phone system was the one we didn't think of.
[39:57.760 --> 40:00.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: We had everything planned out, but apparently it doesn't tell you when you get disconnected.
[40:00.900 --> 40:02.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: We think you have six minutes.
[40:03.420 --> 40:04.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: We think you have six minutes.
[40:05.520 --> 40:06.080]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm sorry.
[40:06.400 --> 40:10.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: We believe that you have six minutes remaining before it cuts out.
[40:10.080 --> 40:11.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Before I get cut off or before the show ends?
[40:11.640 --> 40:12.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: Cut off.
[40:13.040 --> 40:13.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[40:13.440 --> 40:13.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we'll see.
[40:14.120 --> 40:15.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: 15 minutes for the show.
[40:15.740 --> 40:16.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[40:16.260 --> 40:18.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll keep an eye on that.
[40:18.920 --> 40:20.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: These people are spinning right now.
[40:20.260 --> 40:21.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to walk up to them.
[40:22.100 --> 40:24.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know how close you can get without getting hit by something.
[40:25.500 --> 40:25.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hi.
[40:26.980 --> 40:29.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Do you guys have anything to say to the radio in New York?
[40:30.780 --> 40:31.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: No.
[40:32.360 --> 40:34.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: She seems kind of distracted right now.
[40:34.380 --> 40:35.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: She's upside down.
[40:35.660 --> 40:36.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Spinning in circles.
[40:36.480 --> 40:40.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: I guess this doesn't translate very well on radio, but it's quite a sight, believe me.
[40:40.360 --> 40:47.440]  [SPEAKER_17]: I have an off-topic and totally trivial question about hacker pseudonyms.
[40:48.040 --> 40:52.040]  [SPEAKER_17]: The woman interviewed in the tent a few minutes ago gave her name as Hanukkah.
[40:52.180 --> 40:57.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: I presume that's the Germanic name as opposed to the Jewish holiday?
[40:58.640 --> 40:59.200]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, Jim.
[40:59.400 --> 40:59.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: Okay.
[40:59.960 --> 41:01.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: Just a minor thing, but it's a curiosity.
[41:02.180 --> 41:02.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right.
[41:03.440 --> 41:03.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.
[41:03.980 --> 41:09.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Now, I also wanted to talk about the phone system that is actually working here, the good one.
[41:10.500 --> 41:12.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: And for that, I also want to defer back to Rob.
[41:13.580 --> 41:17.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Rob, we have an amazing system, amazing people that put things together here.
[41:17.940 --> 41:19.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: They put Verizon to shame.
[41:20.400 --> 41:24.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Basically, I'm just going to let Rob tell the story because he has been here since Monday.
[41:24.500 --> 41:25.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: He's been working on this.
[41:25.560 --> 41:27.560]  [SPEAKER_09]: Suffice to say, we have our own phone number here.
[41:27.560 --> 41:28.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: It ends in 2600.
[41:28.980 --> 41:30.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's an extremely long phone number.
[41:30.980 --> 41:35.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: But these guys set it up, and they set up call hunting, and they set up three-way and everything, and it all works great.
[41:35.840 --> 41:38.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: So, here's Rob to explain how it works.
[41:39.980 --> 41:40.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[41:40.740 --> 41:49.740]  [SPEAKER_07]: What they've basically done is they've set up a phone system that is based on DECT cordless phones.
[41:49.920 --> 41:53.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: DECT is the digital system for cordless phones here in Europe.
[41:54.920 --> 42:03.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, they've told everybody to bring their DECT cordless phones, and you could even reserve a phone number, a four-digit phone number, on the website beforehand.
[42:04.800 --> 42:12.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: Basically, lots of people have brought these phones, and you walk by the radio tent, which is also the telephone tent where the exchange sits.
[42:13.340 --> 42:15.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: You walk by them, and you register your phone.
[42:16.100 --> 42:23.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Each phone has a unique serial number, and you press the register function in your own phone, and the exchange looks for it.
[42:23.720 --> 42:25.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: When they tell it to, it looks for it.
[42:25.440 --> 42:29.180]  [SPEAKER_07]: Your phone starts ringing, and then you have the phone number that they set for you.
[42:30.500 --> 42:37.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, from there on out, you can make internal calls, and if you have it set up that way, you can also make external calls or be called.
[42:39.340 --> 42:40.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: And that all works.
[42:41.480 --> 42:42.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it's really instant.
[42:44.040 --> 42:47.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: The exchange can handle, like, 70 or 80 calls in parallel.
[42:48.020 --> 42:50.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, it's big enough to basically handle anything.
[42:51.260 --> 42:52.640]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it really works well.
[42:53.640 --> 42:56.400]  [SPEAKER_07]: We got crystal clear voice quality all over the field.
[42:56.540 --> 42:59.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think they have five repeaters all over the area here.
[43:00.720 --> 43:02.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it really works well.
[43:02.800 --> 43:04.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: And the service is great.
[43:04.420 --> 43:11.420]  [SPEAKER_07]: You walk there, and whatever time of day or night, people sit behind this desk and say, Yeah, sure, we'll hook you up.
[43:11.520 --> 43:12.200]  [SPEAKER_07]: No problem.
[43:12.720 --> 43:13.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: We'll make it hunt.
[43:14.460 --> 43:15.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Ten lines.
[43:15.640 --> 43:19.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: You want one number for ten phones, plus each phone a separate number?
[43:19.940 --> 43:20.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: They do that.
[43:21.880 --> 43:22.340]  [SPEAKER_10]: Wow.
[43:25.040 --> 43:25.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: Very nice.
[43:26.660 --> 43:27.000]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[43:28.880 --> 43:29.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's Emmanuel back.
[43:32.320 --> 43:34.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're inside the main tent right now.
[43:34.700 --> 43:37.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's a bunch of people here online.
[43:38.440 --> 43:39.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: I heard a click.
[43:39.320 --> 43:39.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you guys still there?
[43:39.940 --> 43:41.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: We are still here in New York.
[43:42.260 --> 43:47.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we're inside the main tent, and it's a really, really big area.
[43:48.620 --> 43:54.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Many hundreds of people can fit in here, and I'm sure they will be crammed in here tomorrow when the talks begin.
[43:56.880 --> 43:59.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's one of many such places.
[43:59.580 --> 44:01.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's also the radio station.
[44:01.720 --> 44:08.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: There's also various other tents used for other talks and seminars and things like that.
[44:09.420 --> 44:13.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I guess we should try to take some phone calls if that's possible.
[44:13.380 --> 44:14.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have one quick question.
[44:14.160 --> 44:15.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Jeff, are you still there?
[44:15.180 --> 44:15.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm still here.
[44:16.040 --> 44:16.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[44:16.340 --> 44:17.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Anything going on in our tent?
[44:19.080 --> 44:21.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's people online surfing the net.
[44:22.460 --> 44:23.480]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hugh's over in the corner.
[44:23.580 --> 44:24.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: I think he's having his dinner.
[44:24.880 --> 44:25.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[44:25.380 --> 44:26.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, Bernie is also here.
[44:26.340 --> 44:28.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'd like to give him a chance to say a couple of things.
[44:28.420 --> 44:33.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: He's motioning to us that we're about to get cut off if we think that theory holds true.
[44:34.300 --> 44:40.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if that's the case, well, Bernie's going to say a few words now, but he's also going to constantly check to make sure you guys are still there.
[44:41.100 --> 44:43.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then we'll try to take phone calls in the time we have left.
[44:44.000 --> 44:44.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Here's Bernie.
[44:46.200 --> 44:47.640]  [SPEAKER_17]: I agree with Bernie's assessment.
[44:47.920 --> 44:48.880]  [SPEAKER_05]: Can you hear me, New York?
[44:49.000 --> 44:49.760]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, we can hear you.
[44:49.820 --> 44:50.720]  [SPEAKER_17]: We agree with your timing.
[44:51.380 --> 44:58.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if it's been mentioned, but there's going to be over 100 different panel discussions here over the next few days.
[44:59.500 --> 45:03.360]  [SPEAKER_05]: And that's an amazing amount of information and knowledge to be shared.
[45:03.860 --> 45:15.900]  [SPEAKER_05]: And it covers the spectrum of all aspects of technology, art, politics, security, and how all these things are really interconnected in a lot of ways.
[45:16.080 --> 45:25.840]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's the kind of confluence of interests and knowledge and sharing that you're not going to find anywhere else.
[45:25.840 --> 45:30.540]  [SPEAKER_05]: So if there's any way you can get here, try to.
[45:33.340 --> 45:34.340]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're still with us, New York?
[45:34.420 --> 45:35.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: We're still with you.
[45:35.260 --> 45:35.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, great.
[45:35.800 --> 45:37.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: I had a quick question, Bernie.
[45:37.300 --> 45:37.580]  [SPEAKER_16]: Sure.
[45:37.860 --> 45:40.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: The radio station that Emmanuel mentioned, two things about it.
[45:41.020 --> 45:42.920]  [SPEAKER_16]: One, what exactly are they broadcasting?
[45:43.640 --> 45:44.240]  [SPEAKER_16]: And two...
[45:44.240 --> 45:46.180]  [SPEAKER_05]: Music, interviews.
[45:47.720 --> 45:59.140]  [SPEAKER_05]: If someone brings some material they would like to have broadcast, just take it to the tent and they'll broadcast it if they'd like to get on the air and be a DJ for a while.
[46:00.960 --> 46:02.620]  [SPEAKER_05]: Various mixmasters are here and so forth.
[46:02.740 --> 46:05.000]  [SPEAKER_05]: So it's a sort of free-form radio station.
[46:05.600 --> 46:07.940]  [SPEAKER_05]: Low-power radio station is set to cover the camp.
[46:08.100 --> 46:12.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: So anyone with an FM radio in the camp can listen to the camp radio station.
[46:13.280 --> 46:13.540]  [SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[46:13.680 --> 46:15.100]  [SPEAKER_16]: That covers my second question.
[46:15.440 --> 46:16.360]  [SPEAKER_16]: Is it short, Dave?
[46:16.520 --> 46:17.900]  [SPEAKER_16]: But all right.
[46:18.660 --> 46:19.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: Are you still there?
[46:19.720 --> 46:20.840]  [SPEAKER_16]: We're still here in New York.
[46:20.840 --> 46:22.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: We have not been cut off, Emmanuel.
[46:22.360 --> 46:22.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right.
[46:22.500 --> 46:23.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, maybe our theory's wrong.
[46:23.640 --> 46:25.280]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, I believe it's 15 seconds.
[46:26.360 --> 46:26.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[46:26.880 --> 46:29.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: Shall we try to take some phone calls back there in New York?
[46:29.520 --> 46:29.800]  [SPEAKER_17]: Sure.
[46:29.960 --> 46:30.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're gutsy.
[46:31.160 --> 46:31.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[46:31.900 --> 46:32.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, we sure are.
[46:33.940 --> 46:37.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a 212-209-2900.
[46:37.640 --> 46:38.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: And you're on the air.
[46:39.140 --> 46:40.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, of course.
[46:40.140 --> 46:41.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm here in New York City.
[46:41.580 --> 46:43.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: And hello over there in Europe.
[46:44.080 --> 46:44.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, Bible.
[46:45.300 --> 46:46.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: Nice hearing your voice again.
[46:46.640 --> 46:48.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go do something else now.
[46:50.380 --> 46:50.980]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right.
[46:51.120 --> 46:52.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: 212-209-2900.
[46:52.900 --> 46:53.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[46:54.480 --> 46:54.880]  Hi.
[46:55.700 --> 46:56.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi.
[46:56.220 --> 46:59.880]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is Jones calling from Canton, and I've got a question about the network.
[47:00.600 --> 47:00.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[47:00.940 --> 47:01.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can you speak up?
[47:02.400 --> 47:04.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've got a question about the network, Emmanuel.
[47:04.780 --> 47:05.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[47:05.120 --> 47:07.340]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm going to give you to Rob because he knows more about the network than me.
[47:07.580 --> 47:07.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[47:07.900 --> 47:08.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hang on.
[47:08.300 --> 47:09.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: A question about the network.
[47:09.700 --> 47:10.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[47:10.100 --> 47:10.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: Come again.
[47:11.180 --> 47:13.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm wondering if you could give me one of the IP addresses.
[47:13.600 --> 47:15.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: We want to look at the peering.
[47:17.280 --> 47:23.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think the IP addresses start with 81.161, and it's the entire slash 16.
[47:23.920 --> 47:24.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[47:24.520 --> 47:26.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: So I can just pick an address in there and do a trace route?
[47:27.500 --> 47:27.940]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[47:28.200 --> 47:33.060]  [SPEAKER_07]: 81.161, and I think .1.2 is at least one of the IP addresses.
[47:33.780 --> 47:34.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[47:34.360 --> 47:34.540]  [SPEAKER_07]: Cool.
[47:34.720 --> 47:35.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Thanks very much.
[47:35.760 --> 47:36.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[47:36.120 --> 47:36.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: My pleasure.
[47:37.140 --> 47:37.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bye.
[47:38.440 --> 47:40.100]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, another important thing.
[47:40.100 --> 47:45.500]  [SPEAKER_07]: And people should be definitely be checking out www.subether.de.
[47:46.160 --> 47:51.620]  [SPEAKER_07]: The main website for this camp is www.ccc.de slash camp.
[47:51.980 --> 47:58.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: But they should also be checking out www.subether.de because that's the website for the radio station.
[47:58.660 --> 48:03.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: And you can actually listen to the camp radio station stream live on the Internet.
[48:03.760 --> 48:05.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: And repeat that website again.
[48:05.900 --> 48:09.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, and we may be doing a special edition of Off the Hook on that radio station, in fact.
[48:09.260 --> 48:12.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: So by all means, tune in, and maybe you'll hear us again.
[48:12.780 --> 48:14.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: Repeat the address again.
[48:14.740 --> 48:21.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's www.subether.de, as in Deutschland.
[48:21.680 --> 48:27.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, of course, ccc.de slash camp for the camp website.
[48:29.300 --> 48:31.460]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay, we'll go to another phone call.
[48:32.400 --> 48:33.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: 212-209-2900.
[48:34.040 --> 48:34.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[48:35.140 --> 48:36.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, you're not.
[48:36.060 --> 48:37.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'll have to try somebody else.
[48:37.740 --> 48:38.160]  [SPEAKER_06]: How about you?
[48:38.160 --> 48:38.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: Are you on the air?
[48:39.400 --> 48:39.620]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hello?
[48:40.060 --> 48:40.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: Hi.
[48:40.980 --> 48:41.820]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, guys.
[48:42.140 --> 48:42.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: How are you?
[48:43.440 --> 48:44.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're fine, man.
[48:44.400 --> 48:45.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a good job you're doing.
[48:45.980 --> 48:49.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: So we are all invited, and I'm keenly listening to you.
[48:50.000 --> 48:50.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[48:50.720 --> 48:53.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's good to hear your voice all the way across the ocean.
[48:53.200 --> 48:53.940]  [SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[48:54.620 --> 48:55.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, thanks for calling.
[48:55.840 --> 48:56.120]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[48:57.500 --> 48:58.280]  [SPEAKER_09]: So that's what I like.
[48:58.400 --> 49:00.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just like listeners to call in just to say hi.
[49:01.620 --> 49:02.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're on the air.
[49:02.700 --> 49:04.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, I'd like to mention that...
[49:04.800 --> 49:06.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, Rebel, this is it, okay?
[49:06.240 --> 49:07.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: No more calls from you.
[49:07.620 --> 49:11.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: You're preventing everybody else from calling by doing this, and it's incredibly immature and irresponsible.
[49:12.040 --> 49:12.920]  [SPEAKER_09]: So stop it.
[49:12.960 --> 49:13.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[49:13.380 --> 49:14.240]  [SPEAKER_09]: Go on to another phone call.
[49:14.460 --> 49:14.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Here we go.
[49:14.900 --> 49:15.400]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[49:15.840 --> 49:16.560]  [SPEAKER_20]: Hello, guys.
[49:17.100 --> 49:17.680]  [SPEAKER_20]: How are you doing?
[49:18.160 --> 49:19.540]  [SPEAKER_20]: Can you turn my thing off here?
[49:20.500 --> 49:28.360]  [SPEAKER_20]: Listen, last week I was listening to you guys talk about what's going on with the government, and you know what?
[49:28.600 --> 49:30.700]  [SPEAKER_20]: The guy was probably right, but kind of stupid.
[49:30.940 --> 49:37.380]  [SPEAKER_20]: But you can predict probabilities based on more people looking into what's going on in the future.
[49:38.800 --> 49:43.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, well, we're just going to have to accept that for now, because we don't really have time to have a whole big discussion about it again.
[49:43.580 --> 49:44.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: But thanks for the call.
[49:44.780 --> 49:46.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: Can you give me a...
[49:46.620 --> 49:47.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, sorry about that.
[49:47.820 --> 49:48.740]  [SPEAKER_09]: I wonder what he was going to ask.
[49:49.380 --> 49:51.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, I wonder if he was asking for the website again.
[49:51.760 --> 49:56.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: By the way, I just want to say, as we're standing here, that we're looking at Mars, and it's simply amazing.
[49:56.820 --> 50:02.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: By all means, listen to Robert Knight later on tonight at midnight, because he always has talk about astronomy.
[50:02.320 --> 50:04.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sure he'll be talking about Mars tonight as well.
[50:05.080 --> 50:06.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you get a chance, just go outside and look.
[50:06.620 --> 50:08.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's never been closer than it is now.
[50:09.040 --> 50:12.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: I just found in the last 50,000 years, longer than most of us have been around.
[50:12.560 --> 50:14.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's just an incredible sight, especially on the campground.
[50:14.420 --> 50:17.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's going to get closer every day until the 27th of August.
[50:17.720 --> 50:19.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and then who knows what's going to happen.
[50:22.800 --> 50:25.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: Anyway, 212-209-2900.
[50:25.140 --> 50:25.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're on the air.
[50:26.000 --> 50:26.560]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, greetings.
[50:27.060 --> 50:31.080]  [SPEAKER_15]: Like I say, I'm happy to hear of those people overseas there, that conference.
[50:31.880 --> 50:37.120]  [SPEAKER_15]: I'd like to know also that you had repeated early some different websites.
[50:37.640 --> 50:40.480]  [SPEAKER_15]: If you can repeat them, if you have a chance on your program there.
[50:40.940 --> 50:43.060]  [SPEAKER_15]: Yes, we can say the websites one more time.
[50:43.200 --> 50:47.140]  [SPEAKER_15]: But I mean, say them slowly, because when you talk fast, it's hard to really pick them up.
[50:47.420 --> 50:49.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, well, we'll say them as slowly as we possibly can.
[50:49.900 --> 50:50.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: Good point.
[50:50.560 --> 50:55.760]  [SPEAKER_15]: And like at the same token, I'm just saying I'm happy that those guys are over there with that conference.
[50:56.020 --> 50:56.920]  [SPEAKER_15]: I wish them well with it.
[50:57.340 --> 50:57.860]  [SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[50:57.860 --> 50:59.260]  [SPEAKER_15]: We'll have more of that on the air there.
[50:59.740 --> 51:00.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thank you very much.
[51:00.600 --> 51:01.000]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right, bless it.
[51:01.340 --> 51:09.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: Emmanuel, can't we also let them know that they can go to 2600.com and click on the button off the hook and get the whole program again?
[51:09.760 --> 51:12.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: They can do that, but many of our listeners don't have Internet access.
[51:12.760 --> 51:15.600]  [SPEAKER_09]: They actually listen to us the old-fashioned way over the radio airwaves.
[51:16.100 --> 51:21.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: So for those people now, I'm going to read the websites slowly, but not too slowly, but slowly enough.
[51:21.020 --> 51:30.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: The main camp website is www.ccc.de slash camp.
[51:30.300 --> 51:36.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: And if you want to listen to the radio station, actually, I guess they'd have to have Internet access.
[51:36.320 --> 51:40.460]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yes, we've just repeated those urls for those listeners who don't have Internet access.
[51:40.640 --> 51:42.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: That just hit me now.
[51:42.480 --> 51:42.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sorry.
[51:42.820 --> 51:43.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: I've been up for a long time.
[51:47.200 --> 51:54.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: www.subether, spelled S-U-B-E-T-H, E-T-H-E-R dot E-E.
[51:56.260 --> 51:57.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's for the radio station.
[51:57.240 --> 51:57.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are you guys still there?
[51:58.060 --> 51:59.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: We are, here in New York.
[51:59.260 --> 52:00.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, I heard a big click.
[52:00.280 --> 52:01.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, wow, more than 20 minutes.
[52:01.820 --> 52:01.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[52:02.200 --> 52:06.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: All right, you know, maybe this is just a flaky system that, I don't know, we're going to look into it some more, folks.
[52:06.660 --> 52:07.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to learn more about this.
[52:08.900 --> 52:10.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: But it's kind of weird how these things happen.
[52:11.580 --> 52:12.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: How much time do we have?
[52:12.820 --> 52:13.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: About four minutes.
[52:14.160 --> 52:14.520]  [SPEAKER_17]: Four minutes.
[52:14.600 --> 52:15.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let's take some more calls, then.
[52:15.980 --> 52:16.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: Let's do that.
[52:17.240 --> 52:19.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: And Jeff, do you have anything on your end over there in the tent?
[52:20.200 --> 52:23.120]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's getting quieter and quieter here as it gets later and later.
[52:23.320 --> 52:25.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, it is almost 2 a.m., so that's to be expected.
[52:26.380 --> 52:27.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hey, you're on the air.
[52:27.520 --> 52:28.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, hey, how are you doing?
[52:29.080 --> 52:29.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: Good, how are you?
[52:30.120 --> 52:42.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Here's an interesting thing, you know, with, I don't know if it's exactly up the line of this thing, but did you ever start thinking, you know, there's a lot, I'm probably not there, but, you know, every place you go, there's sort of one of these Mr. Coffee Pots around.
[52:44.140 --> 52:44.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm sorry?
[52:45.300 --> 52:56.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Everywhere you go, every office, every hospital, every this, that, there's a million, these little Mr. Coffee things around, each with burners on, you know, they burn electricity, they go through two cycles, they have a low-level thing that keeps things,
[52:56.440 --> 52:58.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: that sort of, it burns everything, thing.
[52:59.120 --> 53:07.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: Did you ever start thinking how much a passive thermos was put next to every one of them around the country, how much electricity could be saved?
[53:07.840 --> 53:12.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I guess you've put some thought into that, probably quite a bit.
[53:12.620 --> 53:13.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, a lot.
[53:13.620 --> 53:14.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: we waste energy.
[53:14.860 --> 53:30.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, this, having been around them for about 22 years, and about, primarily around nurses stations, and about 32 different hospitals, you kind of notice that what happens is, you make a full pot of the stuff, and then about, and whoever drinks the drinks of two or three cups get drank,
[53:30.760 --> 53:32.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: out of the six or so they make.
[53:32.540 --> 53:35.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then this thing sits for about the next 20 minutes, I think it's time.
[53:35.820 --> 53:37.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: You've really thought that's true.
[53:37.760 --> 53:38.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but you see...
[53:38.860 --> 53:40.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Listen, you've given us a lot to think about.
[53:40.760 --> 53:42.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not sure I want to think about it right now, but I am going to think about it.
[53:42.980 --> 53:44.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let me give you one more quick one to think on.
[53:45.060 --> 53:48.720]  [SPEAKER_06]: We don't have any time for a quick one because we're out of time as it is.
[53:48.720 --> 53:49.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, sorry.
[53:49.260 --> 53:49.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm glad I got on.
[53:49.960 --> 53:50.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks.
[53:50.580 --> 53:51.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are we out of time?
[53:52.180 --> 53:53.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, yes you are.
[53:53.760 --> 53:54.440]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, boy.
[53:54.560 --> 53:55.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: It went so fast.
[53:55.520 --> 53:57.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course, there was the nine-minute gap, but never mind.
[53:59.560 --> 54:06.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we're going to engage now in four days of festivities here at the Chaos Camp near Berlin.
[54:07.540 --> 54:12.520]  [SPEAKER_09]: We're going to have a full report on it next week and let people know what happened and all kinds of other things.
[54:12.680 --> 54:15.020]  [SPEAKER_09]: Write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[54:15.100 --> 54:18.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let us know if you're here or if you have any questions or things like that.
[54:19.300 --> 54:22.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: And thanks to everybody for participating this week, all the people here in Germany.
[54:23.660 --> 54:25.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks, Jeff, for being there on the other end.
[54:25.460 --> 54:25.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: And Mike.
[54:25.880 --> 54:26.420]  [SPEAKER_10]: My pleasure.
[54:26.720 --> 54:31.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: And you guys back there in the studio, look forward to seeing you in the weeks ahead.
[54:31.500 --> 54:31.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: Indeed.
[54:32.280 --> 54:35.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: And next week, I don't know, I think I might be in Poland next week.
[54:35.460 --> 54:36.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm not sure.
[54:36.460 --> 54:39.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: I have to check my itinerary, but I'm traveling for the next several weeks after this.
[54:39.920 --> 54:40.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'll be back.
[54:41.260 --> 54:42.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: And Jeff will be in the studio.
[54:42.840 --> 54:46.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Thanks so much, Ken, for engineering for us tonight.
[54:46.700 --> 54:47.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Okay.
[54:48.260 --> 54:48.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: Take care.
[54:49.100 --> 54:49.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: And we'll see you next week.
[54:49.380 --> 54:56.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: And coming up next is the computer show here on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM.