Off The Hook - 2003-08-13

[00:00.760 --> 00:08.040]  [SPEAKER_00]: Pepsi and Cola corporations own more than 12 popular brand sodas, selling 500 million bottles every year.
[00:08.240 --> 00:10.940]  [SPEAKER_00]: That's 90% of the carbonated drinks market.
[00:11.240 --> 00:19.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: For the 40% of India's 1 billion population, which lacks access to clean drinking water, this report will hardly create any impact.
[00:24.720 --> 00:29.380]  [SPEAKER_00]: From Ahmedabad in India, I'm Binu Alex for Free Speech Radio News.
[00:32.020 --> 00:34.340]  [SPEAKER_00]: You've been listening to FSRN.
[00:34.420 --> 00:35.660]  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Deepa Fernandes.
[00:39.820 --> 00:44.600]  [SPEAKER_12]: And this is WBAI New York 99.5 FM.
[00:44.920 --> 00:50.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: Coming up now is Off the Hook, going until 8 o'clock when The Computer Show comes on.
[00:50.560 --> 00:52.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: So, stay tuned.
[00:56.690 --> 01:01.250]  [SPEAKER_04]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[01:02.130 --> 01:04.170]  [SPEAKER_04]: I cut myself while shaving.
[01:04.970 --> 01:06.710]  [SPEAKER_04]: Now I can't make a call.
[01:07.290 --> 01:09.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: We couldn't get much worse.
[01:10.070 --> 01:12.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: But if they could, they would.
[01:12.490 --> 01:13.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Von Dillibom.
[01:13.190 --> 01:14.970]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the best is back for worse.
[01:15.530 --> 01:17.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: I hope that's understood.
[01:17.870 --> 01:18.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: Von Dillibom.
[02:34.670 --> 02:35.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello.
[02:39.350 --> 02:40.270]  [SPEAKER_12]: 303, please.
[02:41.530 --> 02:42.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: 303?
[02:42.470 --> 02:42.630]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[02:49.420 --> 02:49.940]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[02:51.120 --> 02:51.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Emmanuel.
[02:52.480 --> 02:53.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: How are you?
[02:54.260 --> 02:55.060]  [SPEAKER_12]: Where are you?
[02:55.320 --> 02:55.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: Who is it?
[02:55.700 --> 02:56.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is Ken.
[02:56.660 --> 02:58.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is Ken Gale in New York City.
[02:59.920 --> 03:01.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, Ken Gale.
[03:02.480 --> 03:03.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes.
[03:03.260 --> 03:04.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's Wednesday night, isn't it?
[03:04.340 --> 03:05.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's Wednesday night.
[03:06.240 --> 03:07.520]  [SPEAKER_12]: There's this show that you do.
[03:08.760 --> 03:11.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Time just does not work the same way over here as it does over there.
[03:11.980 --> 03:15.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: I can't believe a week has gone by since the last time we did this.
[03:16.640 --> 03:19.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's 1 o'clock in the morning on Thursday, actually, here.
[03:21.020 --> 03:24.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: But that's what it was last week when we were in Germany at the Chaos Camp.
[03:24.380 --> 03:26.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's just unbelievable that a whole week has gone by.
[03:27.020 --> 03:28.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is everybody there?
[03:28.120 --> 03:29.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is there a whole cast and crew assembled?
[03:29.880 --> 03:30.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[03:30.460 --> 03:31.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're all here.
[03:31.200 --> 03:31.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're all here.
[03:32.060 --> 03:33.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: We're wondering where here is for you.
[03:35.040 --> 03:38.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right now I'm in Warsaw, which is a city in Poland.
[03:39.240 --> 03:41.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: I know these words are unfamiliar to many people.
[03:42.360 --> 03:46.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, yes, it's another country that I'm in now, to the east of Germany.
[03:47.060 --> 03:51.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm basically continuing my journeys throughout Eastern Europe.
[03:52.060 --> 03:58.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: I just also got some disturbing news today in typical WBAI fashion.
[03:58.160 --> 04:00.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: We got our two-week notice that we're being preempted next week.
[04:01.340 --> 04:02.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we got that today.
[04:03.400 --> 04:09.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, once again, once again, we're being preempted without the proper notice.
[04:09.620 --> 04:13.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: So you won't be hearing me in the Baltic states next week.
[04:14.280 --> 04:16.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not sure which Baltic state I'm going to be in.
[04:16.620 --> 04:19.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: But my understanding is I'm going to be in one of them.
[04:20.940 --> 04:26.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, actually, this is good for me because as you travel further east, the time gets weirder and weirder.
[04:26.600 --> 04:28.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: So right now it's 1 o'clock in the morning.
[04:28.280 --> 04:30.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Next week it would have been 2 o'clock in the morning.
[04:30.420 --> 04:35.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: And the week after that, when I'm in Russia, it's going to be 3 o'clock in the morning when I'm on the air.
[04:35.520 --> 04:37.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: So that week we will be on.
[04:38.600 --> 04:41.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm sure I'll sound even more disoriented than I do now.
[04:43.380 --> 04:50.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, I guess the thing to do right now, though, is to talk about the amazing experience that many of us had, many of us on the show.
[04:50.740 --> 04:54.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: That is, Jeff, you've returned to New York since last week.
[04:54.660 --> 04:55.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that correct?
[04:55.400 --> 04:57.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, I have, minus my luggage.
[04:59.080 --> 05:02.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, judging from the sound of your voice, it sounds like you're right there in the studio.
[05:02.600 --> 05:05.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: But you say your luggage did not follow you.
[05:05.180 --> 05:06.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, Bernie S.
[05:06.480 --> 05:10.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: and I both, both of our bags were left somewhere.
[05:10.360 --> 05:14.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: I did get a call earlier, and they said that it did arrive about an hour ago.
[05:14.560 --> 05:19.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they're saying maybe 10, 11 o'clock tonight it'll show up.
[05:20.300 --> 05:22.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, I think when you said the word Bernie S.
[05:22.780 --> 05:26.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: just then, that might have actually helped to explain the situation.
[05:26.320 --> 05:31.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: It seems every time that guy goes on an airplane, something goes wrong with it.
[05:31.260 --> 05:34.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's, you know, I'm not saying it's his fault or anything like that.
[05:34.360 --> 05:38.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I'm just saying that, you know, the guy kind of acts like a lightning rod for trouble.
[05:39.440 --> 05:43.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: And your luggage, it's probably taking a world tour someplace.
[05:43.900 --> 05:50.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Last time, last winter, when he flew on a plane, it had to dump its fuel over England or something and turn back.
[05:51.000 --> 05:52.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm sure there's all kinds of other stories, too.
[05:52.720 --> 05:54.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know about that, but yes.
[05:55.080 --> 05:56.460]  [SPEAKER_02]: Bernie's power is increasing.
[05:56.460 --> 06:00.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: I've heard the story, and this happened before the plane.
[06:02.180 --> 06:03.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: What happened before the plane?
[06:03.480 --> 06:04.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: All the problems.
[06:05.700 --> 06:06.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
[06:06.880 --> 06:17.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: The one thing I haven't told you yet was when we left in the morning to go to the plane, we got up very early, 4 o'clock, got everything taken care of.
[06:17.560 --> 06:20.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: We were trying to leave the apartment of our hosts.
[06:21.140 --> 06:26.180]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what had happened is that we didn't realize that downstairs door was locked with a key.
[06:26.580 --> 06:31.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: And once you leave the elevator from their apartment and go down, you can't get back up.
[06:31.800 --> 06:33.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: We didn't take keys with us because we were leaving.
[06:34.960 --> 06:38.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, yeah, see, you're laughing at the time.
[06:38.500 --> 06:38.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not.
[06:38.940 --> 06:40.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Really, Jeff, I'm not laughing.
[06:40.300 --> 06:43.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just it sort of sounds that way over the over the transatlantic cable.
[06:43.000 --> 06:46.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: But actually, what you're hearing in my voice is concerned.
[06:47.060 --> 06:47.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: Concerned.
[06:47.480 --> 06:49.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I guess the static does that, yeah.
[06:49.880 --> 06:50.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Very concerned.
[06:52.200 --> 06:52.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, wait.
[06:52.860 --> 06:56.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're telling me that you went downstairs from our friend's apartment.
[06:56.860 --> 06:58.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is the first time I'm hearing this, too, by the way.
[06:58.160 --> 07:05.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: You went downstairs from our friend's apartment, and the door was locked from the inside, so you couldn't get back up or go outside.
[07:05.520 --> 07:06.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is that correct?
[07:06.060 --> 07:06.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Correct.
[07:06.580 --> 07:07.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's correct.
[07:07.520 --> 07:13.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, of course, the first thing was, well, can we get to the doorbell from the inside?
[07:13.940 --> 07:15.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that wasn't possible.
[07:15.760 --> 07:16.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: We tried.
[07:16.760 --> 07:17.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, of course.
[07:17.580 --> 07:19.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Didn't Bernie have a GSM phone with him?
[07:19.680 --> 07:22.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: His credits had run out because that would have been...
[07:22.440 --> 07:22.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, my goodness.
[07:22.940 --> 07:31.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, he couldn't get any calls from the night before, so the phone would have been the easiest, but unfortunately, it wasn't working.
[07:31.700 --> 07:33.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: My phone doesn't work in that country.
[07:33.660 --> 07:35.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, this sounds like a riddle for our audience.
[07:36.080 --> 07:37.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: How do you get out of a situation like that?
[07:37.980 --> 07:44.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Never mind how you get into a situation like that, because, again, Bernie asked Jeff in the equation, these things will happen.
[07:44.320 --> 07:47.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: But now that you're in the situation, how do you get out of it?
[07:47.500 --> 07:49.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, gee, what would I do?
[07:49.600 --> 07:51.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'd scream real loud, maybe.
[07:51.200 --> 07:56.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: I went upstairs and was banging on the apartment door, but, of course, they're on the next...
[07:56.580 --> 07:57.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, you were able to go upstairs?
[07:57.860 --> 08:02.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was able to go up the stairs to their level, but that was floor four.
[08:03.340 --> 08:09.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're on floor five, and they're at the opposite end of the building, where they sleep, is at the far end, not in the front.
[08:09.740 --> 08:10.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: So all of the pounding...
[08:10.660 --> 08:12.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: You left so early that they had not yet awoken.
[08:12.780 --> 08:13.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[08:14.340 --> 08:24.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: And from what I understand from emailing them is that I was successful in waking the neighbors in the buildings next to them, but not them.
[08:26.000 --> 08:29.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we came, you know, after a while, my hands just started hurting.
[08:29.440 --> 08:42.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: So the next thing to do was, okay, let's go in the elevator and take the panel off that has the buttons and see if we can create a jumper or do something to make that work on the fourth floor without the key.
[08:42.680 --> 08:47.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I did something like that once when I was trying to get into somebody's place who wasn't answering the door.
[08:48.020 --> 08:48.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: It turned out they were home, too.
[08:49.120 --> 08:50.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's one way of doing it.
[08:51.100 --> 08:52.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Very James Bond-ish.
[08:52.560 --> 08:57.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, unfortunately, we tried the knife.
[08:57.380 --> 09:05.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: I took the metal piece out of the back of my pin that I was wearing to go to the airport and bent that up to...
[09:05.380 --> 09:12.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: All we wound up doing was just breaking the elevator, actually.
[09:13.160 --> 09:14.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: You couldn't take it up or down after we were done.
[09:15.080 --> 09:16.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let me see if I understand this.
[09:16.620 --> 09:19.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Our friends give you the hospitality of their apartment.
[09:19.940 --> 09:20.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: You stay there.
[09:22.200 --> 09:26.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: You get up at all hours, you know, and cause mayhem.
[09:26.380 --> 09:26.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's not enough.
[09:27.100 --> 09:31.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: You go back and you break the elevator and vandalize the place.
[09:31.940 --> 09:33.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: You forgot waking the neighbors.
[09:34.480 --> 09:36.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: And waking the neighbors, causing all kinds of problems.
[09:37.760 --> 09:38.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, George W.
[09:38.880 --> 09:41.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bush is doing a fine job getting the world mad at us.
[09:41.360 --> 09:42.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: He does not need your help.
[09:43.860 --> 09:45.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I know.
[09:45.040 --> 09:46.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Why do I have the feeling the story continues?
[09:46.720 --> 09:47.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: George W.
[09:48.200 --> 09:49.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: acts globally.
[09:49.680 --> 09:50.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: These...
[09:50.040 --> 09:52.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: Our friends act locally.
[09:53.180 --> 09:56.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, yeah, what finally worked is...
[09:57.860 --> 09:58.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie S.
[09:58.900 --> 10:02.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: was talking through a little hole in the front door and tried to get people to...
[10:03.340 --> 10:06.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: He was offering 20 euro for them to make a phone call.
[10:07.520 --> 10:09.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, for some reason, he stopped and went back up.
[10:09.660 --> 10:11.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think it was to put the elevator back together.
[10:11.720 --> 10:19.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: I stuck my head in the mailbox and found that the larger slot, the wider slot, I could see people coming in the reflection across the way.
[10:19.460 --> 10:25.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I offered this one woman that did speak English 10 euro to just ring the doorbell.
[10:25.040 --> 10:30.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, of course, that brought our hostess out to the balcony.
[10:31.060 --> 10:34.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, evidently, this is a common thing that people come by and ring their doorbells.
[10:34.800 --> 10:36.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: So she wanted to ignore her.
[10:36.180 --> 10:41.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it took a while before we actually communicated the fact that Bernie S.
[10:41.460 --> 10:44.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: and Jeff were, in fact, stuck in the building.
[10:45.500 --> 10:47.220]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we did manage...
[10:47.220 --> 10:48.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: She did come down with the keys.
[10:48.600 --> 10:49.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: We opened the door.
[10:51.600 --> 10:52.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: We...
[10:52.060 --> 10:54.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: And she said, never let me see you again.
[10:54.000 --> 11:00.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, actually, she apologized because, out of force of habit, she had locked the door.
[11:00.900 --> 11:02.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: And she had told Bernie S.
[11:02.700 --> 11:05.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: that, you know, no, she would leave it open so that we could get out.
[11:05.700 --> 11:13.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, as it turns out, she thinks that the downstairs neighbor came in and may have locked it as well, you know, behind him.
[11:13.480 --> 11:19.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: So there were two opportunities there where, even if she hadn't left it open, the neighbor would have.
[11:19.060 --> 11:25.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, fortunately, we got onto a taxi, got into a taxi, and made it to the airport, and got on our plane.
[11:26.500 --> 11:29.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, but, not without, uh, a little sweating.
[11:31.280 --> 11:32.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, yeah, this is...
[11:32.420 --> 11:35.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you hadn't made your, if you hadn't made your plane, though, you'd probably still have your luggage.
[11:36.020 --> 11:36.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: True.
[11:36.840 --> 11:38.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we'd still be in Amsterdam.
[11:39.320 --> 11:41.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, there's, that's two positive things right there.
[11:41.700 --> 11:41.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mm-hmm.
[11:41.960 --> 11:47.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, as you can see, uh, listeners, uh, these are just some of the problems that Americans can have when they travel abroad.
[11:47.160 --> 11:53.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, uh, there's all kinds of other things that, that can happen as well, uh, that, um, that will make your adventures, uh, memorable.
[11:54.480 --> 12:03.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, perhaps we should focus on, uh, the conference that we went over there for, uh, which was a lot more positive and didn't involve, anyway, getting locked to anything.
[12:03.960 --> 12:07.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, it was, it was a wonderful experience.
[12:09.960 --> 12:15.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Basically, uh, we, we camped out, um, uh, well, most of us, anyway, we camped out on, uh, in this field.
[12:15.520 --> 12:25.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, the amazing thing is that, uh, where, where the, uh, Chaos Communications, um, uh, campground took place, uh, was only about 25 kilometers from Berlin.
[12:26.680 --> 12:29.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, imagine what's 25 kilometers from New York.
[12:29.480 --> 12:31.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think you're still in Queens or something.
[12:31.320 --> 12:34.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: But this was, this was literally the middle of nowhere.
[12:34.780 --> 12:38.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: There were, you know, just tractors everywhere and, and animals and things like that.
[12:38.980 --> 12:40.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it was a very pristine environment.
[12:40.980 --> 12:43.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: And you have to figure, you know, Berlin's been around for a long time.
[12:43.820 --> 12:45.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: Germany's been around for a long time.
[12:45.520 --> 12:50.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, you'd think that, um, it would get overdeveloped or saturated with people.
[12:51.000 --> 12:54.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: But no, there were still these wide open spaces so close to major cities.
[12:54.080 --> 12:56.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's, uh, it's just really, really different.
[12:57.020 --> 13:04.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so we, we camped out, um, in that area, uh, from, um, well, I, I was there anyway from Wednesday until Sunday.
[13:04.500 --> 13:07.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's the longest I've ever camped out in, in, in one place.
[13:07.740 --> 13:11.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it was really cool because you, you just built this community.
[13:11.280 --> 13:17.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: You, you wound up, uh, knowing your neighbors in, in tents and you wound up wandering around the entire, um, uh, area.
[13:18.400 --> 13:23.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: And just, uh, seeing where everything was and, and talking to all kinds of people from all, all different countries.
[13:23.860 --> 13:25.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, it was really sad when it ended.
[13:25.760 --> 13:28.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: It really was because, uh, it, it had gone so well.
[13:28.640 --> 13:34.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, everybody was, was very happy with, uh, with, um, all the things that, that happened there.
[13:34.720 --> 13:40.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: All the talks, uh, just the, uh, the community that formed, um, you, you didn't want it to end.
[13:41.020 --> 13:43.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, 24 hours a day, people were just always doing something.
[13:44.160 --> 13:48.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't think I, I, I, I witnessed any problems at all, to be honest.
[13:48.380 --> 13:50.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, it just went so smoothly.
[13:50.880 --> 13:55.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, um, I think we had a total of attendance of about 1,800.
[13:55.780 --> 13:57.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's, that's what they reported, yeah.
[13:57.800 --> 14:08.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, that's what they reported, uh, what that means is that, uh, despite all of the, um, all the, the positivity, uh, they probably wound up lost, uh, losing a bit of money.
[14:08.820 --> 14:12.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, not a huge amount, I don't think, but, um, but they did lose something.
[14:12.740 --> 14:14.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, we lost something for H2K, too.
[14:15.540 --> 14:17.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, lots of times these conferences lose money.
[14:17.660 --> 14:19.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: Sometimes they, they make a little bit.
[14:19.600 --> 14:31.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, it's, um, I, I would strongly suggest that people, um, support them in whatever way possible to ensure that this kind of a thing can happen again, uh, because it was just such a positive experience.
[14:32.060 --> 14:33.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's, it's what we need.
[14:33.260 --> 14:35.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, it's what, uh, the hacker community needs.
[14:35.140 --> 14:46.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's what, uh, the world needs, uh, is to have these kinds of things happen, uh, where you get together, meet people in person, uh, share ideas, have long conversations, have lots of fun.
[14:47.120 --> 14:50.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, you know, we're, we're much better off for that.
[14:50.320 --> 14:53.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, I, I, I met a whole lot of interesting people, including some Americans.
[14:53.220 --> 14:58.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: That really kind of gave me hope that, uh, you know, it's not all, uh, all negative from this point on.
[14:59.080 --> 15:01.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, there's a lot that we can change here, a lot of, a lot of things we can do.
[15:02.340 --> 15:06.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, so, uh, we have to make sure these kinds of things continue.
[15:06.340 --> 15:14.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: So whatever you can do to, uh, uh, to support, uh, CCC, um, and, um, and hacker groups in general that put on these kinds of things.
[15:14.940 --> 15:18.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: I understand something will be happening in Holland in two years as well.
[15:18.440 --> 15:21.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, it's basically they alternate every, every four years.
[15:21.180 --> 15:22.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's in one of those countries.
[15:22.440 --> 15:25.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we're, uh, we're hoping to have another conference next year ourselves in New York.
[15:26.040 --> 15:28.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we'll have more details on that in the weeks ahead.
[15:29.180 --> 15:31.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: The, the interesting thing when you say it was a whole community.
[15:31.660 --> 15:33.740]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, we basically had everything there.
[15:33.940 --> 15:34.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: They brought in power.
[15:35.080 --> 15:36.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: They brought in internet.
[15:36.500 --> 15:39.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: This year, for the first time, they brought in a phone system.
[15:40.220 --> 15:43.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: There were 205 DEC phones set up.
[15:44.060 --> 15:44.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: DEC phones.
[15:46.380 --> 15:49.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, I think 72 internal channels.
[15:50.380 --> 15:51.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, it was, it was amazing.
[15:52.100 --> 15:56.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: You had a lake there in case you, you needed a, a quick little dip to, to beat the heat.
[15:57.180 --> 16:00.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or, uh, you know, take, take, uh, an impromptu shower.
[16:01.000 --> 16:01.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was amazing.
[16:03.380 --> 16:05.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, and, uh, it, it was hot.
[16:05.480 --> 16:08.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, we didn't get a drop of rain the whole, uh, the whole time.
[16:08.220 --> 16:12.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: Which, I guess, you know, for, for a camp, uh, for a camping experience is a good thing.
[16:12.160 --> 16:16.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, but, uh, Europe is in the middle of a major heat wave right now.
[16:16.300 --> 16:19.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, some are saying it's the worst heat wave ever to hit, uh, to hit Europe.
[16:19.720 --> 16:26.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, temperatures above, um, 35 in some areas, uh, floating with 40, uh, which is just insane.
[16:26.900 --> 16:31.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: When you consider that people here don't have air conditioning, uh, it's, uh, it's deadly.
[16:31.460 --> 16:36.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, 100 people in, in Paris have died since, uh, last week, uh, due to heat, uh, heat problems.
[16:37.120 --> 16:40.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, and hopefully, hopefully, it'll, it'll, I'm sorry?
[16:40.560 --> 16:43.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: What's 40 degrees, uh, centigrade in Fahrenheit?
[16:44.480 --> 16:45.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, uh...
[16:45.160 --> 16:47.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: You're, you're thinking in European temperature.
[16:48.020 --> 16:48.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah, I know.
[16:48.820 --> 16:50.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's, it's very easy to fall into that.
[16:50.320 --> 16:51.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, well, let's see.
[16:51.360 --> 16:53.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, about 34 would be 100 Fahrenheit.
[16:54.800 --> 16:58.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh, anything above 30 is really, you know, it's really hot.
[16:58.740 --> 17:02.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: And 40 is just, that's, you know, you talk desert temperatures there.
[17:02.820 --> 17:08.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so, um, 35 is about where it's been sitting in, in many places, including London, Paris.
[17:11.400 --> 17:14.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so it's, um, it's, it's, it's been pretty weird.
[17:14.320 --> 17:16.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: As far as, as far as the camp goes, though, it was, it was great.
[17:17.080 --> 17:17.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, yeah, it was hot.
[17:18.060 --> 17:23.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, you, you'd wind up going to sleep at a reasonable time, you know, like, uh, maybe one or two in the morning.
[17:23.640 --> 17:29.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: And at nine o'clock, you had to get up, because your tent would become so hot, you could not breathe.
[17:29.680 --> 17:31.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if you did not get up, you would simply die.
[17:31.600 --> 17:35.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's, you know, it's, um, uh, it's just survival.
[17:35.580 --> 17:41.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, so you woke up at nine o'clock, you were up at nine, you were, you know, hanging out for the entire day, doing all kinds of things.
[17:41.200 --> 17:44.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I guess that's kind of how, like, you know, life started.
[17:44.860 --> 17:48.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's why people woke up in the morning, because the sun just made everything hot.
[17:48.640 --> 17:51.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: And people did things and went to sleep at night.
[17:51.920 --> 17:54.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh, of course, there were people who didn't go to sleep at night.
[17:54.200 --> 17:55.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: There were people who stayed up all night.
[17:55.180 --> 17:56.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think there are people who stayed up all four nights.
[17:57.640 --> 17:59.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: But that's typical of any hacker convention.
[18:01.260 --> 18:03.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah, some had that look.
[18:05.660 --> 18:07.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: I guess maybe we should tie Bernie S.
[18:07.440 --> 18:07.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: in.
[18:08.080 --> 18:09.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're trying to bring him in now.
[18:10.540 --> 18:13.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, because he was there and he had all kinds of experiences as well.
[18:14.620 --> 18:20.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not always being locked into places or locked out of places, but some of them are quite interesting as well, I believe.
[18:20.760 --> 18:22.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, Jeff, one thing that I wanted to mention.
[18:23.760 --> 18:24.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Remember the bees?
[18:25.120 --> 18:25.680]  Oh, yeah.
[18:26.800 --> 18:28.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: There were bees everywhere.
[18:28.520 --> 18:31.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, you know, that sounds like a negative thing right there.
[18:31.580 --> 18:34.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: But, you know, the bees were just flying all over the place.
[18:34.940 --> 18:39.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: At night, there'd be a shift change and the bees would be replaced by moths and flies and other things.
[18:39.980 --> 18:45.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: But for some reason, and someone told me this early, they said, these are European bees.
[18:46.200 --> 18:48.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're a lot more mellow than American bees.
[18:49.180 --> 18:56.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: And at that point, I just thought, you know, this is really getting silly, this whole talk about how everything in Europe is, like, you know, nice and mellow and everybody in America is nice and uptight.
[18:56.980 --> 18:59.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the odd thing was that the person was right.
[18:59.980 --> 19:01.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: These bees didn't sting.
[19:01.720 --> 19:07.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: They just sort of, like, hovered around and they just, you know, they were interested in what you were eating and, you know, wondering if you could spare some of it.
[19:08.480 --> 19:11.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they didn't cause any other problems.
[19:11.580 --> 19:14.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Unless, of course, you did something to them, they might retaliate.
[19:14.720 --> 19:17.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I didn't see that happen.
[19:17.360 --> 19:19.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I didn't hear one person getting stung.
[19:19.420 --> 19:21.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's the same species.
[19:22.280 --> 19:23.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: That sounds like the voice of Bernie S.
[19:23.700 --> 19:24.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: in the distance.
[19:24.800 --> 19:25.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bernie, are you with us?
[19:25.860 --> 19:26.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: I used to raise bees.
[19:27.060 --> 19:28.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm a former beekeeper.
[19:28.380 --> 19:29.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: They were wasps and not bees.
[19:31.480 --> 19:33.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, well, they were wasps and not bees.
[19:33.740 --> 19:34.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a big difference.
[19:34.560 --> 19:37.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, really, does it matter that much if they're wasps or bees?
[19:37.840 --> 19:40.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, you know, all my life we've been calling those things bees.
[19:41.120 --> 19:45.100]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bees are far less aggressive than wasps.
[19:45.100 --> 19:48.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: Although, these wasps, I agree with you, did not seem particularly aggressive.
[19:48.540 --> 19:50.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, they were aggressive, but not from a stinging standpoint.
[19:51.700 --> 19:51.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[19:52.280 --> 19:55.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: I, you know, the only time I've ever been stung was by one of those.
[19:55.960 --> 19:56.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Whatever it is.
[19:56.680 --> 19:58.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: A bee, a wasp, a hornet, I don't know.
[19:58.880 --> 20:01.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: But one that looked just like that, except it was American, not European.
[20:02.220 --> 20:04.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can tell from looking at their thorax.
[20:06.100 --> 20:06.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: That they were European?
[20:07.580 --> 20:09.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: No, that they're wasps, they're not bees.
[20:09.480 --> 20:10.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh, okay.
[20:10.640 --> 20:12.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I didn't spend that much time looking at thoraxes.
[20:12.580 --> 20:14.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: European bees are frequently used in America.
[20:16.080 --> 20:22.660]  [SPEAKER_13]: Italian honeybees are the most popular brand of, or species of, a variety of bees, honeybees used in the U.S.
[20:22.720 --> 20:24.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: for domestic honey.
[20:26.240 --> 20:29.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, this is a side of knowledge I had no idea you possessed, Bernie.
[20:29.680 --> 20:33.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it just shows that there's all kinds of things to learn out there.
[20:34.720 --> 20:36.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: I learned a lot this past week, too.
[20:36.740 --> 20:37.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was fantastic.
[20:37.860 --> 20:42.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, Jeff already told the story about how you got locked in to an apartment, which was pretty interesting.
[20:42.640 --> 20:46.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we already know your luggage is somewhere in the world, but not in your possession.
[20:47.520 --> 20:49.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are there any memories of the conference that you'd like to share?
[20:50.660 --> 20:52.800]  [SPEAKER_13]: Just the chemistry was truly amazing.
[20:53.060 --> 20:55.400]  [SPEAKER_13]: I mean, you had a couple thousand people in a field.
[20:56.780 --> 21:02.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: And it just seemed to be this great symbiosis between people from different nations.
[21:03.180 --> 21:04.840]  [SPEAKER_13]: It was truly inspiring.
[21:06.320 --> 21:17.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: What I really like about the Germans, German hackers, is just they seem to have a complete lack of ego as far as, like, when they accomplish something, when they do something.
[21:17.820 --> 21:22.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's not this elitist bunch of people or, you know, not someone saying, I'm the greatest hacker of all.
[21:22.940 --> 21:24.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: It just quietly happens.
[21:25.140 --> 21:26.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: It quietly gets done.
[21:26.620 --> 21:37.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: All the different works of art that were out there in the field, the light shows and the sculptures and things that just magically appeared, you know, they were just a part of it all.
[21:37.540 --> 21:39.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you didn't know who specifically did what.
[21:39.620 --> 21:41.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: You just know that it got done.
[21:41.640 --> 21:44.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's how the whole conference came together.
[21:44.480 --> 21:47.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, there wasn't just one person doing it.
[21:48.040 --> 21:51.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: There was a whole lot of people putting a lot of effort into it.
[21:51.160 --> 21:52.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's what made it work, I think.
[21:54.220 --> 21:54.780]  [SPEAKER_13]: I agree.
[21:54.940 --> 21:59.760]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think we had a discussion, I remember, about whether we could pull something off like that in the States.
[22:00.020 --> 22:02.920]  [SPEAKER_13]: And we got different reactions from different people on that, didn't we?
[22:04.360 --> 22:05.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, yeah.
[22:05.360 --> 22:08.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, you know, a lot of people would like to see us pull something off like that in the States.
[22:08.280 --> 22:12.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: But there are just so many ways that it could be stopped.
[22:12.960 --> 22:22.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, all kinds of things from morality issues to permits to, you know, you name it.
[22:22.500 --> 22:28.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's almost infinite number of ways that that kind of a thing could be prevented from happening in the United States.
[22:28.240 --> 22:29.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's really unfortunate.
[22:29.580 --> 22:31.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Even on private property?
[22:31.740 --> 22:33.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Even on private property?
[22:33.960 --> 22:35.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: We would have...
[22:35.040 --> 22:35.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, yeah.
[22:35.920 --> 22:45.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, it's, you know, a lot of these concerts that happen wind up not happening because of, you know, community concern over what might be going on.
[22:45.980 --> 22:49.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, they basically, they worry themselves into a frenzy.
[22:49.560 --> 22:53.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then, you know, their worst nightmares become reality in their minds.
[22:54.820 --> 23:01.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: And basically, you see, the American way is that you can never be trusted to use your own judgment.
[23:01.640 --> 23:03.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, you can...
[23:04.100 --> 23:06.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: You have to be told what to do.
[23:06.440 --> 23:08.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Rules have to be set for every scenario.
[23:08.500 --> 23:12.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, we're just not capable of making up our own minds.
[23:13.300 --> 23:15.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's sad, but that's the reality we're facing.
[23:15.680 --> 23:17.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, yeah, we'd love to do something like this.
[23:17.240 --> 23:23.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because I don't have the foggiest idea how to make a community run like that in a campground.
[23:23.520 --> 23:24.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I know there are people out there who do.
[23:25.660 --> 23:29.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: So if the opportunity ever presents itself, of course, we'd certainly like to be a part of that.
[23:29.900 --> 23:34.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the things that we do know how to do are run the HOPE conferences in New York.
[23:34.460 --> 23:36.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: And hopefully we'll be able to continue doing that.
[23:36.860 --> 23:38.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it's something, you know, it's not the same.
[23:39.000 --> 23:40.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: And maybe it shouldn't be the same.
[23:40.440 --> 23:42.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe we should have our own unique way of doing things here.
[23:42.900 --> 23:46.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I would like to see things like this in the future in our country as well.
[23:46.460 --> 23:51.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: But until they exist in our country, we can only say, go to the places where they do exist and learn.
[23:53.080 --> 23:53.900]  [SPEAKER_08]: True, yeah.
[23:55.320 --> 23:57.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: We didn't mention the Heart of Gold, did we?
[23:58.720 --> 23:59.980]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, why did you mention that?
[24:00.980 --> 24:07.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was one of the nicer decorations, effects that was there on the campground.
[24:07.760 --> 24:18.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: When you arrived and started out, there was an area that was basically set up for the Heart of Gold, which is the name of the spaceship.
[24:18.720 --> 24:30.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: That basically, you have to really go to the website, ccc.de slash camp, to get the full story of how this all began and how it started.
[24:32.060 --> 24:37.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just to interrupt for a second, that's another thing that they do over there, which we don't really do over here.
[24:37.300 --> 24:40.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just they engage in this kind of fantasy world.
[24:40.080 --> 24:41.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: They talk about the spaceship.
[24:41.200 --> 24:42.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: They talk about the fairy dust.
[24:42.420 --> 24:43.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, they don't explain it.
[24:43.780 --> 24:44.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just there.
[24:47.080 --> 24:51.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's information on the website about the fairy dust and what it does and where it comes from.
[24:51.200 --> 24:54.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: Jeff, did it have an infinite probability generator in the Heart of Gold?
[24:55.120 --> 24:55.760]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
[24:55.960 --> 24:56.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Did it?
[24:57.200 --> 24:58.040]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure.
[24:58.280 --> 24:59.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: If not there, the mothership.
[25:01.520 --> 25:07.860]  [SPEAKER_08]: But when we got there, you saw the place where the ship was going to land.
[25:08.200 --> 25:08.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: The landing zone.
[25:09.140 --> 25:09.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right.
[25:09.780 --> 25:10.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Overnight.
[25:11.480 --> 25:13.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: The next day, there was a...
[25:13.700 --> 25:14.880]  [SPEAKER_08]: How tall was that?
[25:15.360 --> 25:15.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Three stories.
[25:16.300 --> 25:17.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was three stories tall.
[25:17.760 --> 25:24.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was an amazing fiberglass constructed spaceship.
[25:24.840 --> 25:28.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: It looked like some sort of extraterrestrial material to me, Jeff.
[25:28.880 --> 25:34.820]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I'm only going by, you know, trying to describe it in terms that, you know, we can all understand.
[25:35.660 --> 25:38.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: We were emitting, there were vapors coming out of the engine.
[25:38.380 --> 25:39.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, the entire time.
[25:39.680 --> 25:39.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[25:40.880 --> 25:45.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: I thought it was incredible, was how you could just leave your...
[25:45.680 --> 25:48.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: I brought a laptop over there, a bunch of other people did as well.
[25:48.500 --> 25:55.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: You could just leave your equipment in various places and not even think that somebody was going to tamper with it or take it.
[25:56.800 --> 25:59.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe there was one instance of that in the entire camp.
[26:00.660 --> 26:03.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it's just such a cultural difference.
[26:03.960 --> 26:07.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: People are able to get alcohol a lot more easily if you're 16 or something.
[26:07.220 --> 26:08.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think it's not a problem at all.
[26:09.080 --> 26:13.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: But I didn't see anybody, you know, getting drunk or out of control or anything like that.
[26:13.020 --> 26:14.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: People were well-behaved.
[26:15.040 --> 26:15.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it's...
[26:15.800 --> 26:17.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: We just have so much to learn, I think.
[26:17.760 --> 26:24.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: What was interesting, I noticed at the airport, speaking of the drinking age, they actually have a card system.
[26:24.620 --> 26:26.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: I noticed it for the cigarettes as well.
[26:26.700 --> 26:28.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to be 16 to buy tobacco there.
[26:29.120 --> 26:38.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you, in order to make the transaction, you have to put in your card that already has your age on there.
[26:38.180 --> 26:39.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then it'll allow you to make the purchase.
[26:39.800 --> 26:42.580]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, they actually, I mean, they do have that sort of thing here.
[26:42.580 --> 26:43.260]  [SPEAKER_07]: They have a...
[26:43.260 --> 26:47.560]  [SPEAKER_07]: In New York State, they have a 2D barcode on the back of the license.
[26:47.820 --> 26:48.680]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they can scan that.
[26:48.840 --> 26:51.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it contains all the information, name...
[26:51.300 --> 26:52.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but this was just a vending machine.
[26:52.280 --> 26:52.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: I believe...
[26:52.360 --> 26:52.920]  [SPEAKER_07]: This was a vending machine.
[26:52.920 --> 26:53.720]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, a vending machine.
[26:53.800 --> 26:54.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, yeah.
[26:54.100 --> 26:54.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Oh, wow.
[26:55.620 --> 26:58.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: I believe, Red Hack, you had that happen to you on your 18th birthday.
[26:58.400 --> 26:59.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, and they didn't accept it.
[27:00.140 --> 27:01.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: They said I was a minor, but whatever.
[27:02.540 --> 27:04.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: But this is something that gets...
[27:04.300 --> 27:07.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: Jeff, is that an ID card of some sort, a national ID card?
[27:07.320 --> 27:08.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because I know Germans do have that.
[27:09.740 --> 27:10.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, this...
[27:10.380 --> 27:14.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: The way they showed the picture of this thing, it looked just like an age card.
[27:14.940 --> 27:15.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just a...
[27:15.400 --> 27:17.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it didn't say ID.
[27:17.980 --> 27:19.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: God, we should have taken the picture now.
[27:21.420 --> 27:23.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Are you just going to have to go back and take another picture?
[27:23.980 --> 27:24.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hope to.
[27:24.760 --> 27:32.140]  [SPEAKER_13]: There wasn't a lot of detail on the front of the cigarette machine, but it was clear that it was a chip card that contained information that you would insert into a slot.
[27:32.300 --> 27:38.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: And that would verify your age and then allow you to put coins or currency in the machine to buy the tobacco products.
[27:39.220 --> 27:40.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, Jeff and I were...
[27:40.080 --> 27:42.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Here's a stupid question.
[27:43.160 --> 27:45.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Couldn't you just borrow someone else's chip card?
[27:46.000 --> 27:46.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sure.
[27:47.560 --> 27:55.860]  [SPEAKER_13]: But Jeff and I were speculating as to whether the machine logged the ID information of whose card was inserted and whether that was transmitted anywhere.
[27:55.860 --> 27:59.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: I didn't see any wires coming from the machine that looked like data cables.
[27:59.820 --> 28:00.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: There was just power going to it.
[28:00.980 --> 28:02.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, probably not.
[28:02.620 --> 28:04.720]  [SPEAKER_13]: But if they didn't log data...
[28:04.720 --> 28:07.460]  [SPEAKER_13]: If they did something like that in this country, you can bet they would log data.
[28:07.540 --> 28:16.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because here in Pennsylvania, when you buy any kind of alcohol in a state store, which runs all the liquor sales in the state, they log your identification.
[28:16.580 --> 28:20.220]  [SPEAKER_13]: Even if you're paying by cash, you've got to swipe your driver's license.
[28:20.800 --> 28:22.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, that doesn't seem to happen in Europe.
[28:24.640 --> 28:31.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Other bits of technology at the camp included a full-service radio station that was just kind of set up.
[28:32.900 --> 28:38.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, I don't want to say it puts WBAI to shame, but it really does, because the equipment was really good.
[28:38.980 --> 28:40.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: It worked perfectly.
[28:40.660 --> 28:43.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was set up in a heartbeat, virtually.
[28:44.440 --> 28:49.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: And it operated out of a tent and was sent over to the entire camp and the Internet.
[28:49.380 --> 28:55.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: We did a couple of hours of radio ourselves over there, and it was sent all over the place.
[28:55.560 --> 28:58.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's just amazing how quickly people were able to put this together.
[28:59.340 --> 29:00.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Radio sub-ether.
[29:01.540 --> 29:02.520]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, it was...
[29:02.520 --> 29:03.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's right, radio sub-ether.de.
[29:04.140 --> 29:07.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: You do realize these are all Hitchhiker's Guide references, right?
[29:07.920 --> 29:08.140]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[29:08.560 --> 29:08.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: Okay.
[29:10.500 --> 29:11.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: No, we...
[29:11.300 --> 29:12.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hitchhiker's Guide.
[29:12.400 --> 29:13.220]  [SPEAKER_07]: What's Hitchhiker's Guide?
[29:13.240 --> 29:14.460]  [SPEAKER_07]: Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.
[29:14.680 --> 29:27.040]  [SPEAKER_07]: The Heart of Gold was the spaceship powered by the infinite and probability generator, and sub-ether was the radio network that basically different species used to communicate within the galaxy.
[29:27.380 --> 29:28.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: All Douglas Adams books.
[29:29.020 --> 29:31.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: I didn't see any references to the number 42 42, though.
[29:32.260 --> 29:33.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, uh...
[29:33.200 --> 29:33.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: Somebody did shout out...
[29:33.900 --> 29:35.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: That would have been obvious, then.
[29:36.000 --> 29:37.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Somebody did shout out 42.
[29:37.060 --> 29:37.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: That would have been too obvious, right?
[29:38.980 --> 29:40.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the camp only ran...
[29:40.120 --> 29:40.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sorry, Bernie, say that again?
[29:41.460 --> 29:48.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: During one of the panel discussions, someone shouted out 42 in response to some question that someone raised at the panel.
[29:49.180 --> 29:49.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, um...
[29:49.980 --> 29:54.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: That wasn't the right answer, but it was another reference to Douglas Adams' work.
[29:54.980 --> 29:59.380]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the camp was only four days long, and we had too much fun.
[30:00.120 --> 30:02.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I think it pervaded throughout.
[30:03.740 --> 30:05.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's good.
[30:05.780 --> 30:06.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[30:07.620 --> 30:15.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: As far as other bits of technology, though, there was the 3D machine, which, Jeff, I believe you have some intimate knowledge of.
[30:15.580 --> 30:17.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm holding it in my hand right now.
[30:17.760 --> 30:18.600]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, in fact...
[30:18.600 --> 30:18.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Machine?
[30:18.800 --> 30:20.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, no.
[30:20.440 --> 30:22.260]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just the piece that I brought back.
[30:22.680 --> 30:24.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: This was...
[30:24.020 --> 30:28.320]  [SPEAKER_08]: They were actually doing a model replica of the heart of gold.
[30:28.740 --> 30:33.720]  [SPEAKER_08]: And evidently, during the first shot, somehow the cartridge ran out of material.
[30:34.400 --> 30:38.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Someone did not replace it properly, and the job got canceled.
[30:38.580 --> 30:43.300]  [SPEAKER_08]: So they were redoing it, and this was kind of left there.
[30:43.500 --> 30:44.480]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it has...
[30:44.480 --> 30:46.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: It sparked an idea.
[30:46.420 --> 30:58.980]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm going to get in touch with Tim, and offer a suggestion or an opportunity that maybe by the time we get together in December, I'll actually be bringing some stuff over there that may be very interesting.
[30:59.200 --> 31:05.300]  [SPEAKER_13]: For the people that didn't see this there, it's basically a three-dimensional output device for a computer.
[31:05.560 --> 31:24.060]  [SPEAKER_13]: You can give it a job that you design with some CAD-CAM software, and it will, instead of machining it, it actually escorts very tiny droplets of some sort of epoxy, and it builds a three-dimensional model of anything your mind can imagine, which is an amazing machine.
[31:24.260 --> 31:25.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, it's a heated plastic.
[31:26.420 --> 31:27.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: I noticed that...
[31:27.780 --> 31:32.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's kind of like the replicator in Star Trek, except a lot slower, and it only makes one material.
[31:32.580 --> 31:36.820]  [SPEAKER_07]: I noticed that in the model, it's not actually a solid object.
[31:36.900 --> 31:38.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's sort of hollow.
[31:39.300 --> 31:41.860]  [SPEAKER_07]: There is a web inside.
[31:42.120 --> 31:45.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: Now, is that the device, or is that good designing on their part?
[31:46.260 --> 31:49.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can have this mesh that's inside.
[31:49.880 --> 31:51.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can have it closer, wider apart.
[31:51.940 --> 32:09.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: You determine that when you're making the program, and just say, I would like a filler grid to happen in here, and I want it to be so many lines thick, so many lines apart, and that's how this is set up, because you can have just about any density that you want put into this thing.
[32:09.520 --> 32:12.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's all part of the software.
[32:13.300 --> 32:15.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: And hopefully we can have something like this at the next H.O.P.
[32:15.820 --> 32:16.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: conference as well.
[32:16.660 --> 32:21.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's my dream to have more artistic type of displays as well.
[32:21.920 --> 32:27.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Since we have so much space at the Hotel Pennsylvania, we can accommodate things like that.
[32:27.380 --> 32:31.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: So if you're involved in that kind of thing, we certainly do want to hear from you.
[32:31.980 --> 32:33.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, did...
[32:33.140 --> 32:34.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: How many people saw the waterfall?
[32:35.680 --> 32:36.500]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did you see the...
[32:36.500 --> 32:36.600]  [SPEAKER_13]: I'm sorry?
[32:37.100 --> 32:41.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did you see the waterfall, Emmanuel, with the video projection through it?
[32:42.880 --> 32:43.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, yeah.
[32:43.960 --> 32:45.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: There wasn't a real waterfall.
[32:45.360 --> 32:45.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: It was...
[32:45.920 --> 32:47.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, it was an art waterfall.
[32:47.680 --> 32:56.980]  [SPEAKER_13]: An art waterfall, but it was the size of a waterfall with several feet across on the side, and they had a video projector projecting images through it, and it was really beautiful.
[32:57.580 --> 32:59.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, the water acted as a screen.
[33:00.200 --> 33:01.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: And people would go up...
[33:01.360 --> 33:07.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Some of the things that were done with light and displays simply were unbelievable.
[33:08.280 --> 33:12.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Out there in the middle of the field, under the dark sky, you just...
[33:12.020 --> 33:14.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: There was a laser show, which was really incredible.
[33:15.220 --> 33:18.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: And as I mentioned last week, Mars, too, just being there was perfect.
[33:19.100 --> 33:21.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, it just added so much to it, this brilliant, bright, red planet.
[33:22.060 --> 33:24.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Which, by the way, tonight is right next to the moon.
[33:24.220 --> 33:25.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm looking at it now, in fact.
[33:26.600 --> 33:32.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I don't know if you have the moon yet over there, but when you get it, look up at it, and you'll see that it's right next to it.
[33:32.620 --> 33:35.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's supposed to be even better in a few days.
[33:35.520 --> 33:39.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think by the 23rd, it'll be the best it's going to be.
[33:39.360 --> 33:44.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: It'll still last for a little while, but this won't happen again for another couple hundred years, this kind of activity.
[33:44.600 --> 33:45.560]  [SPEAKER_13]: 60,000 years.
[33:46.600 --> 33:48.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, 50,000 years is the last time it happened.
[33:48.800 --> 33:55.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: But what I read today on one astronomy site is the next time it will be this close will be 60,000 years from now.
[33:57.800 --> 33:58.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: 60.
[33:58.520 --> 33:59.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, that's...
[33:59.920 --> 34:02.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: I dare say the world is going to be a different place then.
[34:02.560 --> 34:04.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think I'll wait for the next time around.
[34:05.460 --> 34:06.280]  [SPEAKER_07]: You and two boys.
[34:06.500 --> 34:06.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: You do that.
[34:09.860 --> 34:11.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, I wanted to mention this.
[34:11.600 --> 34:17.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: The first show I was away, and I keep forgetting to mention it, and I guess it's a little bit of a contest, and we have to remember to announce the answer.
[34:18.620 --> 34:29.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: But during the first show I was away, I was in Paris, and that day, that very day, I saw something on the Champs-Élysées for the very first time in my life.
[34:30.660 --> 34:33.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I saw one of these things, and I saw another one right after it.
[34:34.460 --> 34:38.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was wondering if people there might be able to guess what I saw for the first time in my life.
[34:38.300 --> 34:39.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I think I can guess.
[34:40.120 --> 34:40.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, go ahead.
[34:40.960 --> 34:44.480]  [SPEAKER_07]: Was it the smart car that you've been talking about profusely?
[34:46.080 --> 34:46.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Smart car?
[34:46.880 --> 34:47.900]  [SPEAKER_07]: Something like that.
[34:48.060 --> 34:48.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or card.
[34:48.980 --> 34:49.360]  [SPEAKER_07]: Car.
[34:49.500 --> 34:49.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: Car.
[34:49.860 --> 34:53.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, I've seen smart cars many times, so no, it was not that.
[34:53.380 --> 34:55.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've seen smart cars a few times as well.
[34:57.320 --> 34:57.700]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
[34:58.020 --> 35:04.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I understand it would be unfair to ask for too big of a hint, but what I'd like to know is this thing, this is a thing of which there are many?
[35:05.040 --> 35:06.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Or more than one?
[35:06.160 --> 35:10.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: This is a thing, this is a thing that I think eventually everyone's going to see at some point.
[35:12.020 --> 35:13.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's a pretty big hint right there.
[35:13.660 --> 35:15.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was expecting to see one by now, I just didn't expect to see it then.
[35:16.200 --> 35:22.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: And, you know, I saw this thing, and everybody turned and looked at it, and then another one appeared.
[35:22.980 --> 35:23.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, no.
[35:23.480 --> 35:24.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: And everyone turned and looked at that.
[35:24.380 --> 35:31.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Let me just ask, is there, is it like the Eiffel Tower in that there's only one that's in a fixed place, or is it like a bicycle that there are many?
[35:32.180 --> 35:32.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, no.
[35:32.500 --> 35:32.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Not at all.
[35:33.340 --> 35:34.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: This could have happened anywhere.
[35:34.580 --> 35:35.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: Was it that scooter?
[35:36.520 --> 35:36.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, the Segway.
[35:37.260 --> 35:37.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah, the Segway.
[35:38.040 --> 35:38.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: Was it the scooter?
[35:39.020 --> 35:39.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yep, that's what it was.
[35:39.740 --> 35:40.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[35:40.300 --> 35:41.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Who guessed that?
[35:41.520 --> 35:42.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was first.
[35:42.980 --> 35:45.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was first, but the two Jeffs.
[35:45.500 --> 35:47.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, the other Jeff, you know, mentioned the name.
[35:47.700 --> 35:49.840]  [SPEAKER_08]: But we'd actually seen one in Dayton.
[35:51.060 --> 35:52.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie S and I saw one.
[35:52.200 --> 35:54.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, there was one there in Dayton back in March.
[35:54.980 --> 35:56.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: I have a Segway story to top all of you.
[35:57.480 --> 35:59.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: I saw one after last week's show.
[36:00.040 --> 36:00.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: And guess where?
[36:01.040 --> 36:01.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: In New York.
[36:02.880 --> 36:04.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Probably being driven by a cop, right?
[36:04.780 --> 36:05.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: You're right, but guess where?
[36:07.180 --> 36:08.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Guess where?
[36:08.300 --> 36:08.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[36:10.560 --> 36:11.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Wall Street?
[36:11.620 --> 36:11.980]  [SPEAKER_02]: City Corp?
[36:12.220 --> 36:12.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[36:12.540 --> 36:13.040]  [SPEAKER_13]: Grand Central.
[36:13.280 --> 36:13.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: In the subway.
[36:15.320 --> 36:16.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: In the subway?
[36:16.480 --> 36:17.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: Union Square.
[36:17.440 --> 36:27.520]  [SPEAKER_02]: There's a transit police district at Union Square and this cop was just tooling up and down the corridor one flight above the train platform playing with his Segway.
[36:27.580 --> 36:30.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: what possible use a Segway is inside the subway?
[36:30.620 --> 36:32.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: That crossed my mind, too.
[36:32.360 --> 36:33.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's fun.
[36:35.720 --> 36:36.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: You can't argue with that.
[36:36.660 --> 36:38.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, but there's a lot more fun outside where there's no space.
[36:40.200 --> 36:41.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: Did it have flashing red lights on it?
[36:42.080 --> 36:42.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: No.
[36:42.700 --> 36:44.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's just a plain gray Segway.
[36:44.760 --> 36:50.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: It says NYPD on the wheel covers, the fenders, whatever you call it.
[36:50.080 --> 36:51.080]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is there a Segway that George W.
[36:51.260 --> 36:52.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: fell off of a few weeks ago?
[36:52.840 --> 36:53.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, it is.
[36:55.180 --> 37:00.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, you know, I saw this thing stop fast and, you know, the guy didn't fall off of it.
[37:00.580 --> 37:02.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: It takes skill, I guess, to be able to do that.
[37:03.620 --> 37:04.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: He's carrying out...
[37:04.360 --> 37:10.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let's see, I just want to say a couple of things about Poland and then maybe we can take some phone calls since we won't be on next week.
[37:10.740 --> 37:15.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: Emmanuel, before we jump to Poland, one quick question about the Netherlands there.
[37:15.800 --> 37:18.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you know what the emergency response number...
[37:18.160 --> 37:19.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like, here in New York we have 911.
[37:19.980 --> 37:23.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you know what the emergency response number is in the Netherlands there?
[37:23.520 --> 37:34.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's so funny that you're saying that because I'm holding in my hand the guide of emergency numbers in Poland and that's one of the things I wanted to talk about and it happens to be the same as in the Netherlands.
[37:34.900 --> 37:35.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is it really?
[37:35.540 --> 37:36.140]  [SPEAKER_08]: What is it?
[37:36.500 --> 37:36.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah.
[37:37.120 --> 37:39.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, now, let me ask, were you trying to dial that or something?
[37:39.520 --> 37:40.460]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, no, no.
[37:40.860 --> 37:49.640]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I just it was one of the things that came up in conversation while I was talking with people and when I heard about it I said, I wonder if Emmanuel knows this.
[37:51.660 --> 37:55.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, in most Western European countries 112 will get you the police.
[37:55.980 --> 37:56.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, that's it.
[37:57.720 --> 38:08.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: On any GSM phone, in fact this will happen in the States too, you go ahead and try no, actually don't go ahead and try it but take my word for it if you have a GSM phone and you dial 112 you will get the police.
[38:08.000 --> 38:11.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: it will say emergency dialing when you dial that.
[38:12.600 --> 38:20.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: And similarly 911 when you dial that will get you the police in Europe if you're using a GSM phone.
[38:21.140 --> 38:23.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: But here in Poland things are a little bit different.
[38:24.260 --> 38:51.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: 112 does work for the police however, if you dial 911 you wind up getting information about Warsaw just an information number is what 911 is 913 is local information 930 is information about domestic numbers which I guess are not local numbers but somewhere in the country here's where it gets kind of weird ordering trunk line calls dial 900 I don't know what they mean by ordering a trunk line call
[39:00.460 --> 39:01.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Trunk line calls.
[39:01.800 --> 39:03.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's 909.
[39:03.480 --> 39:07.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: So if you want to make a claim on a trunk line call and you're in Poland, you dial 909.
[39:08.780 --> 39:12.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Information about foreign numbers, 901.
[39:13.200 --> 39:16.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: Claims on international calls, 908.
[39:16.640 --> 39:20.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: Flight reservations and sales information, 9572.
[39:21.140 --> 39:22.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: You see, that's a four-digit number.
[39:22.440 --> 39:23.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: All the rest were three-digit numbers.
[39:24.000 --> 39:28.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: So they have an interesting phone system here where certain numbers can be three digits.
[39:28.220 --> 39:34.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: I saw a taxi driving around that had a three-digit number.
[39:34.820 --> 39:36.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, I think I even have it here.
[39:36.980 --> 39:39.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, 919 is a taxi.
[39:39.460 --> 39:43.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: But there's another taxi driving around that has a number 811-1111.
[39:44.800 --> 39:47.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: So all kinds of different numbering schemes are possible here.
[39:48.200 --> 39:54.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: I imagine there's a certain variant of nine that allows for three digits.
[39:54.340 --> 39:57.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I guess if you pay a lot of money, you can get a three-digit phone number.
[39:58.220 --> 40:03.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: In addition, if you want the police... and you're not at a mobile phone.
[40:03.720 --> 40:05.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Actually, 112 only works for mobile phones.
[40:05.960 --> 40:11.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the actual landline police number... well, maybe I should just let somebody guess that.
[40:11.700 --> 40:12.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anybody want to try?
[40:12.620 --> 40:13.000]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'll guess.
[40:13.760 --> 40:14.160]  [SPEAKER_02]: 999?
[40:15.540 --> 40:16.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's very good, Jim.
[40:16.580 --> 40:16.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: Very good.
[40:16.900 --> 40:17.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's wrong.
[40:17.500 --> 40:18.920]  [SPEAKER_11]: You'll get an ambulance for 999.
[40:19.440 --> 40:20.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it's a good guess.
[40:21.620 --> 40:22.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: You want to try again?
[40:22.700 --> 40:23.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: 111?
[40:24.500 --> 40:26.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: 111 is a very silly guess.
[40:26.780 --> 40:27.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Why is it silly?
[40:27.800 --> 40:30.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: If 112 is the police, why wouldn't 111?
[40:30.300 --> 40:33.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, because 111 is the most commonly mis-dialed number.
[40:33.620 --> 40:35.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: You know, a cat can dial 111.
[40:35.780 --> 40:38.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: A cat can dial 999 hitting a different button.
[40:38.320 --> 40:38.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Give me a break.
[40:39.340 --> 40:42.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, that would be very hard to... well, yeah, touchdown front, I suppose.
[40:42.200 --> 40:43.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: But we're talking about rotary, you know.
[40:43.600 --> 40:45.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's why these numbers were invented.
[40:45.000 --> 40:46.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to see...
[40:51.060 --> 40:52.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: Anyone else want to try?
[40:52.560 --> 40:53.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: We've lost Jim.
[40:56.480 --> 40:59.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Jim's the first person to get disconnected while inside the studio.
[41:01.620 --> 41:04.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: Oh, and by the way, you notice I haven't been disconnected yet.
[41:04.180 --> 41:06.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I don't know what happened the last couple of weeks.
[41:06.300 --> 41:09.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've had many long phone conversations on this new system of ours.
[41:09.840 --> 41:10.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I haven't been cut off.
[41:11.000 --> 41:13.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: The only times I've been cut off were the two times we were on the air.
[41:13.340 --> 41:15.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I don't know what that was all about.
[41:15.200 --> 41:16.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: But obviously, it hasn't happened yet this week.
[41:18.760 --> 41:19.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: So, okay.
[41:19.760 --> 41:21.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: I guess I'll spill the beans on you.
[41:21.340 --> 41:21.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go ahead.
[41:23.020 --> 41:24.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: The ambulance is 999.
[41:24.820 --> 41:26.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: Fire department, 998.
[41:26.480 --> 41:28.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Police, 997.
[41:28.980 --> 41:31.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: And emergency gas service, 992.
[41:32.280 --> 41:34.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Emergency road service, 9633.
[41:35.880 --> 41:37.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: What if I want a pizza?
[41:37.060 --> 41:39.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you want...
[41:39.040 --> 41:44.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: If you have a veterinary emergency, it's 622-5522.
[41:44.800 --> 41:46.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: So Poland is an interesting place, phone-wise.
[41:47.060 --> 41:50.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're captain, dial a rotary phone, that's the number you call.
[41:53.180 --> 41:57.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: And there are a number of GSM providers here as well.
[41:58.040 --> 41:59.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: In fact, there are three altogether.
[42:00.440 --> 42:04.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's one called IDEA, I-D-E-A.
[42:04.940 --> 42:06.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's PLUS-GSM.
[42:06.780 --> 42:09.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: And then there's ERA-GSM.
[42:09.500 --> 42:20.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: And just to quickly go over this, because I've been taking notes in every country I go in, I scan for the different countries, different companies, rather, that exist in that country.
[42:20.540 --> 42:23.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I usually get between three and four different companies.
[42:23.640 --> 42:34.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: In this particular case, PL Plus has the ID code of 260-01, 260 being the country code for that particular GSM country.
[42:35.760 --> 42:41.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: PL ERA-GSM is 260-02, and IDEA is 260-03.
[42:41.540 --> 42:44.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, I've switched to each one of them just to test them out.
[42:44.500 --> 42:55.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they all seem to work pretty normally, with the exception of ERA-GSM, which sends you an SMS message as soon as you switch to them, welcoming you.
[42:55.600 --> 42:56.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Some companies do this.
[42:56.620 --> 43:01.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: As soon as you either enter the country or switch to their company, they welcome you to their country.
[43:01.400 --> 43:04.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: And this one said, welcome to ERA, the best mobile network in Poland.
[43:05.180 --> 43:06.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: And this is the interesting part.
[43:06.680 --> 43:11.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: It said, for VoiceStream Connect, that's one word, VoiceStream Connect, dial 411.
[43:11.980 --> 43:14.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: For your customer care, dial 611.
[43:15.560 --> 43:18.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, somehow it knew my phone was registered as VoiceStream.
[43:18.640 --> 43:21.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: It must have read something off my phone, because my phone still says VoiceStream.
[43:21.980 --> 43:24.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: A company that no longer exists is now T-Mobile.
[43:25.000 --> 43:29.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: And someone told me, actually, that all VoiceStream phones have now become T-Mobile phones.
[43:29.940 --> 43:31.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Something must have happened in the last few days.
[43:31.880 --> 43:33.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: If anybody can verify that, we'd like to know.
[43:34.320 --> 43:40.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: But anyway, this message was followed by two more messages with more helpful hints.
[43:40.300 --> 43:42.860]  [SPEAKER_11]: And at that point, it just got so annoying that I switched companies again.
[43:42.860 --> 43:49.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they were just obviously SMS happy and just sending all kinds of messages to welcome people.
[43:49.400 --> 43:53.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: But if anyone's interested, the number that it came from, the country code in Poland is 48.
[43:53.900 --> 44:00.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it came over as plus 48602-955-000.
[44:01.760 --> 44:03.700]  [SPEAKER_11]: And that's the number that showed up on the GSM phone.
[44:03.760 --> 44:05.160]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have no idea what happens if you call that.
[44:05.820 --> 44:10.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: But it's just some GSM oddities, which are always fun to play with.
[44:10.840 --> 44:11.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, when I go to...
[44:11.940 --> 44:17.640]  [SPEAKER_11]: My next stop is Kaliningrad, which is the part of Russia that's not attached to the rest of Russia.
[44:18.360 --> 44:19.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: They make it very difficult.
[44:20.000 --> 44:30.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: I either have to leave at 2.19 at night and catch a train from Warsaw that will allow me to switch to two other trains that will eventually get me to Kaliningrad.
[44:30.760 --> 44:32.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Or I could take a bus, which leaves at noon.
[44:33.140 --> 44:38.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I hate buses, but I just might do that because it's just a much better time.
[44:38.860 --> 44:43.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: I have no idea what that's going to be like, what that place is going to be like.
[44:43.520 --> 44:45.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: Everybody has tried to convince me not to go there.
[44:45.460 --> 44:47.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've met complete strangers, talked about my travels.
[44:47.920 --> 44:49.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I say, yeah, I'm going to Kaliningrad.
[44:49.320 --> 44:51.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: And they always say, no, no, don't go there.
[44:51.480 --> 44:52.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's nothing there.
[44:52.480 --> 44:53.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: There's nothing for you there.
[44:53.800 --> 44:54.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: Just don't go there.
[44:56.260 --> 44:59.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I'm really interested in going there now to see what that's going to be all about.
[44:59.460 --> 45:03.780]  [SPEAKER_11]: And if they have any GSM providers, I'll certainly be taking notes on those, as well as all the other countries.
[45:05.460 --> 45:08.620]  [SPEAKER_08]: And speaking of phones, did we want to take any calls tonight?
[45:10.340 --> 45:12.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yes, we certainly should.
[45:12.640 --> 45:20.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Let me just say, just to finish off about Poland, I spent the day walking around in the old village looking at all kinds of things.
[45:21.360 --> 45:27.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: I tracked down the synagogue, which it's sad to say, the synagogue is one in the entire town.
[45:27.900 --> 45:44.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: When you consider what a vibrant Jewish community there was before World War II, how it was completely decimated and how there are so few left here now, it really makes you realize that the effects of the war forever changed this place.
[45:44.880 --> 45:47.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: This was really where the front lines were.
[45:48.360 --> 45:49.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Warsaw was completely devastated.
[45:49.940 --> 45:58.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Most of the town has been rebuilt since World War II, and there's nothing really that dates beyond that, with very rare exceptions.
[45:59.600 --> 46:05.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: But a lot of sobering reminders as to the effects of that kind of a war.
[46:05.400 --> 46:10.740]  [SPEAKER_11]: So I intend to explore some more in the next couple of days, and hopefully in a couple of weeks I can tell you what I find.
[46:10.740 --> 46:14.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just out of curiosity, what did you do in your final day in Berlin?
[46:17.640 --> 46:18.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, here's an interesting thing.
[46:19.240 --> 46:26.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Mike, who actually is on a train right now from Prague to Amsterdam, that's why he's not joining us tonight, because he doesn't have a GSM phone either.
[46:26.600 --> 46:28.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: If he had a GSM phone, he'd be able to...
[46:29.080 --> 46:30.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: We walked around Berlin a little bit.
[46:30.800 --> 46:33.120]  [SPEAKER_11]: He only had one day, so I wanted to show him some of the sights.
[46:33.960 --> 46:36.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: And in the middle of West Berlin...
[46:36.080 --> 46:38.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: Now, keep in mind, Berlin is a huge city.
[46:38.120 --> 46:39.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's 15 times the size of Paris.
[46:40.280 --> 46:42.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: And West Berlin is a pretty big section of it.
[46:42.980 --> 46:44.060]  [SPEAKER_11]: We were just walking around.
[46:44.060 --> 46:47.180]  [SPEAKER_11]: I was showing him some of the sights over there.
[46:47.460 --> 46:52.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we turned a corner, we ran into two people who were at the conference, who we'd been talking to only a day earlier.
[46:53.360 --> 46:57.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: And we spent a good part of the day hanging out with them as well.
[46:57.280 --> 47:05.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: So it was just, you know, pretty cool just walking around, just seeing parts of the town and, you know, reminiscing about the conference and planning for the future, that kind of thing.
[47:06.440 --> 47:07.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: It went very fast.
[47:08.980 --> 47:09.560]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[47:10.660 --> 47:13.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll go ahead and take some calls.
[47:14.220 --> 47:17.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: The number is 212-209-2900.
[47:17.400 --> 47:17.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: You're on the air.
[47:18.360 --> 47:18.960]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, hi.
[47:19.060 --> 47:20.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: I have a question on privacy, Emmanuel.
[47:21.180 --> 47:22.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Next call, please.
[47:22.780 --> 47:23.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: We're there.
[47:23.720 --> 47:24.680]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, you're the next call.
[47:24.720 --> 47:24.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: Hi.
[47:24.920 --> 47:27.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes, hello to your guest in Europe.
[47:28.280 --> 47:31.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd like to ask a question.
[47:32.660 --> 47:33.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: Does Europe...
[47:33.460 --> 47:35.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: Rebel, do you really think you're fooling us?
[47:35.720 --> 47:37.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: You really think you're fooling us, Rebel?
[47:38.860 --> 47:39.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: Come on.
[47:39.960 --> 47:40.760]  [SPEAKER_10]: You're on the air.
[47:41.460 --> 47:42.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oh, my God.
[47:42.480 --> 47:43.160]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hold on, hold on.
[47:43.400 --> 47:43.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hold on, hold on.
[47:43.920 --> 47:44.800]  [SPEAKER_10]: Lower my radio.
[47:44.960 --> 47:46.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've never been able to get through to you guys.
[47:46.660 --> 47:47.560]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's the first time.
[47:48.160 --> 47:49.660]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know why you can never get through to us?
[47:49.780 --> 47:52.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's because certain people tie up all the phone lines.
[47:52.460 --> 47:53.460]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're very, very disruptive.
[47:53.580 --> 47:53.880]  [SPEAKER_10]: They're very disruptive.
[47:53.880 --> 47:55.580]  [SPEAKER_10]: Every time I've tried, I can never get through.
[47:55.660 --> 47:57.200]  [SPEAKER_10]: But here I am, so thank you.
[47:57.680 --> 47:59.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's an excellent show.
[47:59.400 --> 48:00.100]  [SPEAKER_10]: I've always enjoyed it.
[48:00.160 --> 48:03.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I wanted to ask you kind of a funny question.
[48:03.640 --> 48:04.380]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe funny.
[48:04.700 --> 48:07.360]  [SPEAKER_10]: This scooter thing you mentioned, what is this?
[48:07.360 --> 48:09.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: And why is it remarkable that you saw one?
[48:10.560 --> 48:18.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, okay, let me just say, it's not at all remarkable to me that this thing exists.
[48:19.080 --> 48:20.500]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's a stupid invention.
[48:20.500 --> 48:23.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's something that's just going to make people fatter and lazier.
[48:23.940 --> 48:27.300]  [SPEAKER_11]: What I thought was amazing was just the fact that I finally saw one after all the hoopla.
[48:27.780 --> 48:29.760]  [SPEAKER_11]: But after, you know, I expect them to...
[48:29.760 --> 48:31.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I don't know what you're talking about.
[48:31.540 --> 48:31.580]  [SPEAKER_02]: Segway.
[48:31.780 --> 48:33.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: S-E-G-W-A-Y.
[48:33.660 --> 48:39.200]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's invented by this guy named Dean Kamen, who's a well-known inventor.
[48:40.560 --> 48:42.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a two-wheeled scooter.
[48:42.640 --> 48:44.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: It has a gyroscope or two.
[48:44.740 --> 48:45.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's computer-controlled.
[48:47.260 --> 48:48.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a two-wheeled...
[48:48.860 --> 48:52.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: They're parallel to each other, like the front axles of a car.
[48:53.260 --> 48:53.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: So...
[48:53.660 --> 48:53.840]  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay.
[48:53.980 --> 48:56.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: It looks like you're riding on a hand truck, basically.
[48:57.240 --> 48:57.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[48:57.720 --> 49:00.300]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it doesn't tip over because it's self-correct.
[49:00.980 --> 49:01.460]  [SPEAKER_11]: Electric?
[49:01.580 --> 49:02.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Unless you're George W.
[49:02.600 --> 49:03.520]  [SPEAKER_11]: Bush and it tips over.
[49:04.360 --> 49:05.320]  [SPEAKER_11]: What does it run on?
[49:05.600 --> 49:06.040]  [SPEAKER_02]: Electric.
[49:06.040 --> 49:06.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Electric.
[49:07.500 --> 49:11.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it goes like 10 miles an hour maximum, something along those lines.
[49:11.880 --> 49:12.240]  [SPEAKER_11]: Strange.
[49:12.440 --> 49:13.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, it goes a lot faster than that.
[49:14.000 --> 49:14.180]  [SPEAKER_02]: Really?
[49:15.140 --> 49:16.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can go like 20, I think.
[49:16.520 --> 49:16.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
[49:16.860 --> 49:18.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can get up to some pretty good speed on that.
[49:18.360 --> 49:22.480]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they said people could outrun it easily, and 20 miles an hour would not be outrunning it easily.
[49:22.600 --> 49:23.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: 10 miles an hour would.
[49:23.680 --> 49:23.900]  [SPEAKER_02]: But...
[49:23.900 --> 49:25.140]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, here's the thing.
[49:25.340 --> 49:29.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Cops get faster versions that can go double the speed, so they can catch up to you.
[49:29.800 --> 49:31.640]  [SPEAKER_10]: They can get to the donut shop faster.
[49:32.840 --> 49:33.860]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's one better, too.
[49:33.980 --> 49:36.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's one other question I wanted to always ask you guys.
[49:36.040 --> 49:40.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: Guys, it's not about the topic you're talking about, but I've never been able to get through before.
[49:41.020 --> 49:41.280]  [SPEAKER_05]: Go ahead.
[49:41.280 --> 49:42.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: It has to do with the collect calls.
[49:43.240 --> 49:53.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: For years now, I've seen many, many commercials on TV about calling collect, 1-800-COLLECT, various things to call collect and save money and so forth.
[49:54.240 --> 49:56.220]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I just don't understand this.
[49:56.220 --> 50:00.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Maybe you could give me your opinion of why would people want to be calling collect?
[50:00.920 --> 50:04.400]  [SPEAKER_10]: Isn't it much cheaper to use your phone card or to use...
[50:05.220 --> 50:10.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, but if they have no money and they're caught in the middle of nowhere, then...
[50:10.120 --> 50:11.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, but that's a very good point.
[50:11.820 --> 50:14.900]  [SPEAKER_11]: It's kind of creating this market that doesn't really exist.
[50:15.120 --> 50:15.300]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[50:17.320 --> 50:22.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: By saying that you're saving money by making somebody...
[50:22.360 --> 50:29.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: You're saving somebody money who's paying for your call, and they should be happy that you called them using this because you're saving them money.
[50:29.460 --> 50:29.980]  [SPEAKER_11]: The argument...
[50:29.980 --> 50:32.840]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no need for it, I think, because I don't know.
[50:32.920 --> 50:36.040]  [SPEAKER_10]: Personally, I've never felt I ever had a need to make a collect call.
[50:36.040 --> 50:40.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: The argument that the phone company uses is exactly like a mugger coming to you saying, give me half your money.
[50:40.940 --> 50:43.020]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm saving you money by only taking half of it.
[50:43.840 --> 50:44.740]  [SPEAKER_10]: So they're just...
[50:44.740 --> 50:48.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: So that's why there's so much advertising, because they're creating a false demand.
[50:48.360 --> 50:48.620]  [SPEAKER_10]: Right.
[50:48.920 --> 50:49.320]  [SPEAKER_10]: Ah.
[50:50.160 --> 50:50.540]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay.
[50:51.100 --> 50:52.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thank you for calling.
[50:52.220 --> 50:53.040]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, you know, ask around.
[50:53.120 --> 50:55.200]  [SPEAKER_11]: See how many people you know who use this system.
[50:55.340 --> 50:57.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: I don't know anybody who's ever used it.
[50:57.720 --> 50:59.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: The collect calling thing.
[50:59.740 --> 51:06.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, actually, I know people have experimented with it just to see what it's like, but, you know, to use it, you know, for a legitimate...
[51:06.020 --> 51:06.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: For a legitimate reason.
[51:06.700 --> 51:08.900]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm glad to get the expert's opinion on it.
[51:08.940 --> 51:09.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: Thank you.
[51:09.440 --> 51:10.820]  [SPEAKER_10]: And thank you again for a great show.
[51:11.340 --> 51:11.600]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[51:11.600 --> 51:11.680]  [SPEAKER_10]: All right.
[51:11.720 --> 51:11.940]  [SPEAKER_10]: Bye-bye.
[51:14.000 --> 51:14.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello.
[51:14.540 --> 51:15.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[51:16.200 --> 51:16.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, hello.
[51:17.100 --> 51:17.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Off the hookers.
[51:19.600 --> 51:20.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know.
[51:20.620 --> 51:20.700]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[51:20.780 --> 51:21.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Get off the hookers.
[51:22.360 --> 51:27.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Segway guy also invented a mobile wheelchair, which apparently got bought up by Johnson & Johnson.
[51:27.580 --> 51:27.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[51:27.940 --> 51:35.360]  [SPEAKER_09]: And then he turns attention to consumer nonsense with the Segway, which is a total waste of money for most people, but would make a hell of a thing for handicapped folks.
[51:36.500 --> 51:37.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, it's great for handicapped people.
[51:37.920 --> 51:38.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: No question about that.
[51:38.800 --> 51:41.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: People who have trouble standing and walking will have to stand and ride.
[51:42.060 --> 51:42.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[51:42.360 --> 51:48.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: But the whole thing with the cops is really stupid because I used to sell police bicycles at a bike shop here in New Jersey.
[51:48.200 --> 51:51.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: And a bike for a cop was like $850,000 to $1,000.
[51:51.760 --> 51:53.380]  [SPEAKER_09]: The Segway is like, I think, $20,000.
[51:54.340 --> 51:55.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's $5,000.
[51:55.440 --> 51:55.780]  [SPEAKER_05]: $5,000.
[51:56.040 --> 51:56.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, okay.
[51:56.600 --> 51:56.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[51:57.120 --> 51:58.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: The figures always varied.
[51:58.600 --> 52:00.840]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's like, they only go about 12 miles per hour maximum.
[52:01.320 --> 52:05.820]  [SPEAKER_09]: And it's total, like, the guy's getting a lot of hype by virtually donating them to police departments.
[52:06.160 --> 52:08.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, everyone loves gadgets, but it's totally stupid.
[52:09.520 --> 52:10.320]  [SPEAKER_09]: Also, uh...
[52:10.320 --> 52:15.100]  [SPEAKER_11]: And also, uh, postmen are getting them as well to deliver the mail so they don't have to actually walk.
[52:15.320 --> 52:15.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, man.
[52:16.220 --> 52:18.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, get a bicycle, for crying out loud.
[52:19.100 --> 52:22.660]  [SPEAKER_08]: And did they sell the little chain option so that they can do it in the snow, too?
[52:22.800 --> 52:24.500]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, it's totally stupid.
[52:24.680 --> 52:29.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, the bicycle's like the perfect instrument for any kind of self-propelled, like, go-anywhere capability.
[52:29.540 --> 52:31.400]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, you know, people think, oh, no, it's too onerous.
[52:31.820 --> 52:35.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, we definitely saw that while traveling through Europe.
[52:35.500 --> 52:36.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, the...
[52:36.160 --> 52:38.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Everything was on bicycles.
[52:38.020 --> 52:50.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we were at the shuttle stop for the, um, uh, to get to the camp, and I saw a post, a mail person, show up on a bicycle and actually accomplish what they needed to do with a bicycle.
[52:51.080 --> 52:52.540]  [SPEAKER_08]: There was no truck, nothing, just...
[52:52.540 --> 52:57.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I've got pictures of the bike racks near Central Station in Amsterdam.
[52:58.540 --> 52:59.440]  [SPEAKER_10]: Three stories high.
[52:59.660 --> 53:01.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, three stories high.
[53:01.640 --> 53:01.800]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[53:02.100 --> 53:02.580]  [SPEAKER_08]: Huge.
[53:02.980 --> 53:08.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you walk around and you can say, well, now I know why these women have such beautiful legs.
[53:09.000 --> 53:09.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're all healthy.
[53:10.220 --> 53:10.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[53:10.500 --> 53:14.360]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then, of course, the paradox is you turn around and they're lighting a cigarette up.
[53:14.520 --> 53:16.920]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it just doesn't make sense, but, you know.
[53:17.240 --> 53:21.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, again, a lot of, a lot of areas we have that nonsense even here.
[53:21.200 --> 53:24.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: We've got people who have got more silicon in them than a couple of motherboards, you know.
[53:25.500 --> 53:26.180]  [SPEAKER_09]: What the hell?
[53:26.360 --> 53:28.980]  [SPEAKER_09]: Also, when you go to, uh, Koenig...
[53:28.980 --> 53:31.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, Kaliningrad, you're actually going to Koenigsberg, Prussia.
[53:31.820 --> 53:33.300]  [SPEAKER_09]: An old, uh, Prussian city.
[53:33.380 --> 53:34.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yes, yeah.
[53:34.220 --> 53:36.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: It used to be part of, uh, East Prussia, I believe.
[53:36.540 --> 53:36.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yep.
[53:37.180 --> 53:39.960]  [SPEAKER_09]: And, uh, big sub-base there, I think, still, to this day.
[53:40.780 --> 53:41.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: My grandfather came from...
[53:41.900 --> 53:43.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I'll, I'll, I'll look for it.
[53:43.780 --> 53:44.040]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.
[53:44.040 --> 53:46.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, have a good one, and I'm going to...
[53:46.020 --> 53:46.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Thanks for your call.
[53:47.020 --> 53:47.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right on.
[53:47.280 --> 53:50.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, there's something, actually, I'd like to, um, I'd like to mention.
[53:51.620 --> 53:52.100]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go ahead.
[53:52.200 --> 53:52.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello?
[53:52.680 --> 53:53.120]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I'm there.
[53:53.220 --> 53:53.380]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[53:53.960 --> 53:56.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: I think we're on some kind of delay here, because I'm always hearing echoes and things.
[53:57.320 --> 54:09.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, there's an important update to a story we reported on a couple of months ago, and that's the, uh, the case of, uh, Mike Hawash, uh, who, um, who wound up pleading guilty, uh, to, um, uh, to charges last week.
[54:09.900 --> 54:13.660]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, this was the, um, the software engineer, um, who worked for Intel.
[54:14.040 --> 54:18.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Who had been held, um, without, uh, well, without even confirmation that he was being held.
[54:19.240 --> 54:26.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, and, uh, what wound up happening was he pleaded guilty last Wednesday to conspiring to provide services to the Taliban.
[54:26.840 --> 54:32.960]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, he won't face any other charges, but he will have to testify against other suspects.
[54:33.420 --> 54:43.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, he initially pleaded innocent to charges of conspiracy to wage war against the United States, conspiracy to provide material support to al-Qaeda, and conspiracy to contribute services to al-Qaeda and the Taliban.
[54:44.040 --> 54:50.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, in exchange for that testimony, federal prosecutors agreed to drop charges of conspiring, uh, to levy war against the U.S.
[54:50.820 --> 54:53.340]  [SPEAKER_11]: and conspiring to provide material support for terrorism.
[54:53.640 --> 54:57.000]  [SPEAKER_11]: However, he did plead guilty to conspiring to provide services to the Taliban.
[54:57.900 --> 55:04.440]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, now, this is all very interesting because, um, again, we don't know what actually happened.
[55:04.700 --> 55:08.940]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, as, as is the case of the Bush administration constantly, you don't get the details.
[55:08.940 --> 55:22.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: You don't understand why this guy was, was followed, uh, and, and, and looked at, uh, supposedly his neighbors said that he became kind of unfriendly, and that was the whole basis for them, uh, to, uh, to look into him as a potential terrorist suspect.
[55:23.300 --> 55:29.360]  [SPEAKER_11]: Um, he was also accused of going to China and attempting to get into Afghanistan and not succeeding.
[55:29.580 --> 55:36.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: But the thing that I think everyone's forgetting here is that, um, uh, the Taliban weren't the, they weren't the terrorist group.
[55:36.620 --> 55:38.220]  [SPEAKER_11]: They were the people running another country.
[55:38.860 --> 55:43.020]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, it's, um, it's not the same thing as Al-Qaeda, so...
[55:43.660 --> 55:44.380]  [SPEAKER_13]: The U.S.
[55:44.540 --> 55:44.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: government...
[55:44.640 --> 55:45.020]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sorry, Bernie?
[55:45.160 --> 55:45.960]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, the U.S.
[55:46.220 --> 55:53.200]  [SPEAKER_13]: government gave the Taliban millions and millions of dollars for its, uh, drug eradication efforts in Afghanistan prior to 9-11.
[55:53.480 --> 55:56.640]  [SPEAKER_13]: So, um, it really doesn't make any sense.
[55:56.820 --> 56:10.120]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, Emmanuel, just quickly, according to the official plea that I read earlier, um, he, he, essentially, he, he pledged, they, in the plea, he said that they, uh, he was going, he was with a bunch of people.
[56:10.300 --> 56:17.980]  [SPEAKER_07]: They agreed to leave from Portland and get to Afghanistan, uh, to China, try to go through Pakistan to Afghanistan and fight for the Taliban.
[56:18.120 --> 56:19.840]  [SPEAKER_07]: That was the official plea.
[56:20.360 --> 56:20.760]  [SPEAKER_07]: So...
[56:20.760 --> 56:23.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well, obviously, there's a lot that we have to know about this case.
[56:23.820 --> 56:28.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: I mean, I know people plead guilty for all kinds of different reasons, and maybe he is guilty, maybe he is not.
[56:28.660 --> 56:31.620]  [SPEAKER_11]: Maybe he's just looking for a way to get out of prison within, uh, his lifetime.
[56:31.620 --> 56:33.840]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, we're going to follow this in weeks ahead.
[56:34.040 --> 56:39.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: The website, www.freemikehawash, that's, uh, H-A-W-A-S-H dot org, has more information.
[56:39.740 --> 56:41.780]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's a copy of the plea there, actually.
[56:42.100 --> 56:44.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: And that music means that the show is over.
[56:45.280 --> 56:46.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, I guess that's what it means.
[56:46.620 --> 56:49.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: And unfortunately, we're not on next week, which I'm really bummed about.
[56:49.760 --> 56:51.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Uh, but we will be on in two weeks.
[56:51.840 --> 56:55.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'll be in Russia then, so, uh, that ought to be interesting.
[56:58.120 --> 56:59.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, thanks, Emmanuel.
[56:59.900 --> 57:00.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Take care.
[57:00.460 --> 57:03.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, coming up next is the Computer Show.
[57:07.740 --> 57:08.420]  [SPEAKER_03]: I will try.
[57:08.420 --> 57:09.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Computers are through hell.
[57:27.130 --> 57:29.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: The calculator's tracking with the video.
[57:30.100 --> 57:31.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: I fell in love.
[57:31.920 --> 57:33.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: A week or so ago.
[57:34.000 --> 57:36.400]  [SPEAKER_03]: The cooking machine starts to communicate.
[57:36.880 --> 57:37.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: With the toaster.
[57:38.320 --> 57:40.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: I think they're making a date.
[57:42.170 --> 57:43.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Four bucks we go.
[57:45.180 --> 57:46.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: Four bucks we go.
[57:51.080 --> 57:53.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: I got bananas.
[57:55.500 --> 57:56.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: Computers are stupid.
[58:02.180 --> 58:03.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: Computers are dumb.
[58:15.540 --> 58:17.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Computers are dumb.
[58:23.640 --> 58:29.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: The US-made microprocessor-controlled cardiac pacemaker of the O-D-B-N-T-F.
[58:29.820 --> 58:31.180]  [SPEAKER_06]: Is having a chip attack.
[58:31.420 --> 58:34.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: That makes the heart of the General Secretary stop.
[58:34.480 --> 58:36.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: And his head drops on a red button.
[58:36.900 --> 58:40.740]  [SPEAKER_06]: Which, on his part, starts a couple of microprocessor-controlled events.
[58:40.740 --> 58:47.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: That, until today, the strategy experts on both sides of the Iron Curve have always been bringing up.
[58:48.460 --> 58:50.820]  [SPEAKER_06]: This time, everything lights properly.
[58:57.070 --> 59:00.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: On Tuesday, August 19th at 6.30 p.m.
[59:00.470 --> 59:07.850]  [SPEAKER_01]: at the House of the Lord Church in Brooklyn, joined relatives of soldiers in Iraq, former Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, former U.S.
[59:08.190 --> 59:22.490]  [SPEAKER_01]: Attorney General Ramsey Clark, City Councilmember Charles Barron, the Reverend Herbert Daughtry, and others for a rally demanding an end to the colonial occupation of Iraq, money for jobs and human needs, and a return of our troops to U.S.
[59:22.590 --> 59:22.910]  [SPEAKER_01]: soil.
[59:22.910 --> 59:26.230]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's Tuesday, August 19th at 6.30 p.m.
[59:26.350 --> 59:31.430]  [SPEAKER_01]: at the House of the Lord Church, located at 415 Atlantic Avenue in downtown Brooklyn.
[59:31.730 --> 59:36.190]  [SPEAKER_01]: This rally is sponsored by ANSWER and the Martin Luther King Jr. Peace Now Committee.
[59:36.390 --> 59:40.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: For more information, call 212-633-6646.
[59:40.910 --> 59:44.550]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's 212-633-6646.
[59:44.810 --> 59:49.130]  [SPEAKER_01]: Or log on to www.internationalanswer.org.
[59:49.170 --> 59:49.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Lord.