Off The Hook - 2003-09-24

[00:00.000 --> 00:03.700]  [SPEAKER_00]: Both agree that the remaining sheep should be destroyed humanely at sea.
[00:03.940 --> 00:08.920]  [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever their fate, it's unlikely that Australia's live export industry will return to business as usual.
[00:09.440 --> 00:18.400]  [SPEAKER_00]: Today, amid new calls for live exports to be stopped, animal rights activists successfully blockaded live animal export ships from entering Portland Harbour in Victoria.
[00:18.880 --> 00:22.580]  [SPEAKER_00]: For Free Speech Radio News in Sydney, Australia, I'm Guy Deegan.
[00:25.160 --> 00:27.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: This is Free Speech Radio News.
[00:27.360 --> 00:28.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm Deepa Fernandes.
[00:29.040 --> 00:31.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's one minute after seven o'clock time for Off the Hook.
[00:36.900 --> 00:41.300]  [SPEAKER_00]: The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
[00:42.340 --> 00:46.780]  [SPEAKER_02]: I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
[00:47.480 --> 00:52.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: I couldn't get my dress, but if I could, I would.
[00:52.380 --> 00:54.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be wrong for my best to speak.
[01:43.390 --> 01:44.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening to everybody.
[01:45.510 --> 01:47.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: These dials are working kind of a strange way tonight.
[01:47.950 --> 01:47.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[01:48.570 --> 01:49.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: The program is Off the Hook.
[01:52.450 --> 01:54.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we have a lot of ground to cover tonight.
[01:54.650 --> 01:56.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on WBAI in New York.
[01:58.010 --> 01:58.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Jeff, you're here.
[01:59.010 --> 01:59.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm here.
[01:59.510 --> 01:59.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: How you doing?
[02:00.090 --> 02:00.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mike.
[02:00.890 --> 02:01.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello.
[02:01.410 --> 02:02.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Jim, Evan, Leo.
[02:02.870 --> 02:03.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bye.
[02:03.190 --> 02:03.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Welcome, everybody.
[02:05.750 --> 02:14.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, we have exciting things to talk about, including a late-breaking story concerning the do-not-call list.
[02:15.070 --> 02:24.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, we talked about this a few weeks ago, about how people can register to prevent those evil telemarketers from calling you right about this time, in fact.
[02:24.910 --> 02:31.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, your phone might be ringing, even as we speak, with somebody offering you all kinds of incredible offers and deals.
[02:32.790 --> 02:37.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the idea was you could register to be put on a list not to get such calls.
[02:37.850 --> 02:39.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that list would be given to the telemarketers.
[02:41.070 --> 02:42.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: I still can't follow the logic exactly.
[02:42.930 --> 02:45.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: But they would look at that list and say, okay, we can't call this person.
[02:45.830 --> 02:46.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then they wouldn't call you.
[02:46.930 --> 02:49.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that was... that's basically the theory behind the whole thing, right?
[02:49.990 --> 02:51.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Otherwise, there were fines involved.
[02:51.330 --> 02:52.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: There were fines... you know, but I don't understand.
[02:52.930 --> 02:55.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: The whole thing, when there's fines involved, you don't get the fine.
[02:55.870 --> 02:57.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: The person who's offended does not get the fine.
[02:57.910 --> 02:58.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Who gets the fine?
[02:58.890 --> 03:01.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: I was under the impression that you did get... you used to be able to get a fine.
[03:01.810 --> 03:05.150]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you were told them, do not call my number, and they proceeded to call...
[03:05.150 --> 03:06.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think you get the fine.
[03:06.950 --> 03:08.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think you get the fine.
[03:08.970 --> 03:09.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, Evan, you have the story.
[03:10.070 --> 03:11.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's the latest on this?
[03:13.950 --> 03:14.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: The U.S.
[03:15.090 --> 03:33.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: District Court in Oklahoma ruled that the do-not-call list was not constitutional because it gave too much power in the decision-making process to Congress, not the FTC.
[03:35.810 --> 03:39.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they said the FTC can't enforce it.
[03:39.490 --> 03:42.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're not able to...
[03:42.670 --> 03:45.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: They went beyond their power, supposedly.
[03:47.090 --> 03:50.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, basically, this is all behind the Direct Marketing Association.
[03:50.130 --> 03:55.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: They sued to block this list shortly after Congress approved it back in January.
[03:55.710 --> 04:01.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they're saying it violates free speech laws, discriminates against the telemarketing industry, which employs millions of people.
[04:01.770 --> 04:02.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[04:02.130 --> 04:03.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Does anybody see that here?
[04:03.950 --> 04:06.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, they're probably mostly in Oklahoma.
[04:06.450 --> 04:14.990]  [SPEAKER_04]: The argument does work, but the parallel argument is anti-smoking laws discriminate against the tobacco industry, as opposed to the banana industry.
[04:14.990 --> 04:17.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're not going to start an anti-smoking argument here, are you?
[04:17.810 --> 04:17.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: No.
[04:18.130 --> 04:21.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because it will go on well into the personal computer show and throughout the night.
[04:21.750 --> 04:22.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, no, no.
[04:22.410 --> 04:32.410]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the point I'm making is that similar arguments for similar laws have not garnered support, have not garnered legal backing.
[04:32.710 --> 04:37.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: The argument may exist, but there are precedent against it.
[04:37.150 --> 04:41.370]  [SPEAKER_04]: But the only problem is, I pay for my phone.
[04:41.750 --> 04:47.790]  [SPEAKER_05]: If someone's going to, you know, use their business, I think I should have a say in that.
[04:48.750 --> 04:52.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think it's free speech when they're violating something I pay for.
[04:52.530 --> 04:53.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I agree.
[04:53.370 --> 04:54.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: I totally agree.
[04:54.810 --> 04:58.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because you're the one setting it, but you could also apply this to spam as well, right?
[04:58.870 --> 04:59.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: I agree.
[04:59.610 --> 04:59.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[05:01.230 --> 05:01.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hang on.
[05:02.510 --> 05:02.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[05:03.070 --> 05:04.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sorry, this game will carry away with the music there.
[05:05.330 --> 05:05.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[05:06.350 --> 05:08.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, okay, well, this is bad news, then.
[05:09.030 --> 05:15.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's suspended, I guess, indefinitely until they have to re-hear the case or whatever.
[05:15.830 --> 05:19.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: And what happens to all the people who registered on the site?
[05:19.670 --> 05:20.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what I'd like to know.
[05:21.110 --> 05:21.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll find out.
[05:23.210 --> 05:24.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because you registered.
[05:24.130 --> 05:24.510]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm registered.
[05:24.690 --> 05:25.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: But remember, I deregistered you.
[05:25.570 --> 05:25.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Remember that?
[05:25.990 --> 05:27.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: The little security hole we found.
[05:28.250 --> 05:28.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well...
[05:28.610 --> 05:29.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then I think you re-registered yourself.
[05:29.950 --> 05:31.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm on there.
[05:31.090 --> 05:33.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: I checked, and then my number said that...
[05:33.050 --> 05:36.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then we gave you a number out at the 2600 meeting, and I think you got registered 100 times.
[05:37.130 --> 05:37.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we'll see.
[05:39.570 --> 05:41.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, so that's the latest as far as that goes.
[05:43.870 --> 05:44.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's see.
[05:44.410 --> 05:44.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: What else?
[05:45.730 --> 05:46.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is an interesting story.
[05:46.730 --> 05:47.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if you guys heard about this.
[05:47.810 --> 05:51.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Remember the guy David Smith from New Jersey?
[05:51.470 --> 05:55.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: He was someone who was accused of writing the Melissa virus.
[05:56.290 --> 05:56.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yeah.
[05:57.590 --> 06:01.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he was sent to prison for, I think, 20 months or so?
[06:02.190 --> 06:04.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, he could have faced 10 years, and he got 20 months.
[06:04.830 --> 06:11.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it turns out, this guy is helping the FBI to track down people who are sending out viruses now.
[06:12.990 --> 06:25.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Court documents unsealed last Wednesday at the request of the Associated Press show David Smith began working with the FBI within weeks of his 1999 arrest, primarily using a fake identity to communicate with and track hackers from around the world.
[06:26.310 --> 06:27.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: According to the U.S.
[06:27.990 --> 06:36.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: attorney from New Jersey, Christopher Christie, Smith provided timely, substantial assistance to the United States in the investigation and prosecution of others.
[06:37.930 --> 06:43.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's one of the things that helped him get 20 months instead of 10 years.
[06:44.930 --> 06:47.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: He's serving a sentence in federal prison, Fort Dix, New Jersey.
[06:49.390 --> 07:00.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: A letter says, two months after his arrest, Smith gave the FBI the name, home address, email accounts, and other Internet data for John DeWitt, the author of the so-called Anna Kornikova virus in the Netherlands.
[07:00.790 --> 07:07.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: The FBI passed the information on to authorities in the Netherlands, and DeWitt was arrested and later sentenced to probation.
[07:09.050 --> 07:22.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Don't you think it's kind of ironic that people in other parts of the world are sentenced to probation when the person who got sent to prison helped to get them caught, and they get probation, while he gets prison, and this guy is helping the people who put him in prison?
[07:22.070 --> 07:24.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: The logic escapes me, you know?
[07:24.810 --> 07:30.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, if someone's sending you to prison, I don't know, somehow helping them doesn't seem like...
[07:30.850 --> 07:37.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Even if, okay, it's changing from 20 years to, or 10 years to 20 months, but it's still prison.
[07:37.450 --> 07:39.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's still prison, right?
[07:40.510 --> 07:41.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, Leo, you had something to look.
[07:42.030 --> 07:45.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was going to say that 10 years is also ridiculous for the crime.
[07:45.310 --> 07:46.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, 20 months is ridiculous.
[07:46.810 --> 07:51.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think probation is appropriate, depending on what the intent was.
[07:51.870 --> 07:56.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: And from what I remember of this case, Smith did not try to spread this around.
[07:57.030 --> 08:03.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think he posted it on a USENET board or something, and someone else spread it around, but he simply wrote the thing.
[08:04.010 --> 08:04.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[08:06.010 --> 08:06.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's kind of weird.
[08:09.110 --> 08:13.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Smith also said, concerning his virus, When I posted the virus, No, he says posted, not mailed.
[08:14.230 --> 08:18.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: When I posted the virus, I expected that any financial injury would be minor and incidental.
[08:18.550 --> 08:22.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: In fact, I included features designed to prevent substantial damage.
[08:22.670 --> 08:24.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, take that for whatever it's worth.
[08:25.870 --> 08:26.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, um...
[08:26.670 --> 08:28.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's just kind of a strange turn of events, you know?
[08:30.010 --> 08:32.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: We had a lot of feedback for last week's show.
[08:32.890 --> 08:34.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: We have a lot of feedback all the time.
[08:34.830 --> 08:36.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: And let's catch up on some letters.
[08:39.290 --> 08:40.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mike, you want me to read the hate mail, don't you?
[08:41.430 --> 08:42.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm always a fan of hate mail.
[08:42.730 --> 08:42.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[08:43.290 --> 08:50.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you can send your hate mail to oth@2600.com, and we'll be happy to...
[08:50.470 --> 08:52.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, no, we're not going to read all the hate mail on the air.
[08:52.370 --> 08:54.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Some of it's just, you know, silly.
[08:55.090 --> 08:57.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're not going to dignify it by doing that.
[08:57.590 --> 09:04.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you want to send us hate, physical mail rather than hate email, the address is 120 Wall Street, New York, New York, 10th floor.
[09:04.850 --> 09:06.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're going to have to say the zip code if you're going to say the whole address.
[09:06.870 --> 09:07.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know the zip code.
[09:07.530 --> 09:08.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, then don't start saying the address.
[09:09.410 --> 09:12.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you don't know how the book ends, don't start reading it.
[09:12.070 --> 09:12.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what I say.
[09:12.770 --> 09:13.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, 1005.
[09:15.690 --> 09:16.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm looking for the hate mail.
[09:16.870 --> 09:19.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're looking for hate mail that's intelligent.
[09:19.710 --> 09:20.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: I thought it was only one piece.
[09:21.050 --> 09:21.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was right on the top.
[09:21.810 --> 09:22.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I'm sorry.
[09:22.190 --> 09:23.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was going to subscribe to your publication.
[09:23.950 --> 09:26.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank God I read your Ashcroft article before I did.
[09:26.190 --> 09:28.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, this is more geared towards 2600, but it got sent to OTH.
[09:29.350 --> 09:31.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thank God I read your Ashcroft article before I did.
[09:31.510 --> 09:33.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Obviously, you people have no understanding of the effects of 9-11.
[09:34.150 --> 09:37.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Keep happy in your little shells of rehashed 60s liberalism.
[09:37.430 --> 09:38.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: And hey, thanks again, signed Scott.
[09:39.470 --> 09:43.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, Scott, we're happy not to have you as a subscriber, but...
[09:43.810 --> 09:44.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a little harsh.
[09:44.770 --> 09:46.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: It is a little harsh, but I'm not in a good mood.
[09:46.850 --> 09:49.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, well, you know, whatever.
[09:49.670 --> 09:50.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: People are entitled to their opinions.
[09:50.890 --> 09:55.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, to lump people together and say, you know, define...
[09:55.430 --> 09:59.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's that same thing people do when they don't have anything else to fall back on.
[10:00.030 --> 10:05.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: They lump people together and say that we're all part of rehashed 60s liberalism and we don't understand the effects of 9-11.
[10:05.090 --> 10:09.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: As if, you know, you can hide behind that and say that somehow means something to your argument.
[10:11.210 --> 10:12.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: I'm hurt by that.
[10:12.270 --> 10:15.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: I voted Republican in every election since 1980.
[10:15.810 --> 10:17.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you just can't stop mentioning it, can you?
[10:17.530 --> 10:19.110]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I have to.
[10:19.270 --> 10:21.530]  [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, my contract here says I'm the token Republican.
[10:22.750 --> 10:23.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[10:24.690 --> 10:25.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's see.
[10:25.370 --> 10:31.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, Leo, you told us that CNN would stop saying that they were part of AOL, but it still says it on the bottom of every single web page.
[10:31.890 --> 10:33.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I think you need to deal with that.
[10:36.170 --> 10:36.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, although...
[10:36.810 --> 10:38.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: It still says it, Leo.
[10:38.310 --> 10:42.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Leo, it's, I'm sorry, I was wrong, it'll never happen again.
[10:42.190 --> 10:44.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, how about, I'm sorry I was wrong, I'll fix it for next week.
[10:44.590 --> 10:44.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's official.
[10:45.090 --> 10:47.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: It doesn't mean that they have to comply.
[10:47.050 --> 10:47.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, it's...
[10:47.670 --> 10:48.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: You told us they would.
[10:48.550 --> 10:51.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: You told us that they, you would no longer see AOL, Time Warner of Company.
[10:51.810 --> 10:52.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: It says that.
[10:52.610 --> 10:54.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm looking at a page right now, and it still says that.
[10:54.710 --> 10:55.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: When did you shuck?
[10:55.450 --> 10:55.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: When did you shuck?
[10:56.050 --> 10:57.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: I shuck today, this morning.
[10:57.270 --> 10:59.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, I don't think that the change has taken effect yet.
[10:59.850 --> 11:00.750]  [SPEAKER_04]: Maybe it hasn't taken effect yet.
[11:00.790 --> 11:01.830]  [SPEAKER_04]: They have millions of web pages.
[11:02.030 --> 11:02.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: They're taking their time.
[11:02.810 --> 11:04.470]  [SPEAKER_04]: I thought it took effect immediately last week.
[11:04.690 --> 11:11.630]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, probably in all the boilerplate, the physical announcements that they send out, the SEC, press releases.
[11:11.970 --> 11:17.450]  [SPEAKER_04]: But on little minutiae, or to them, little minutiae-like web pages, this one could correct me for a long time.
[11:17.590 --> 11:19.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: You should contact them, perhaps, and just remind them.
[11:19.910 --> 11:21.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I thought you were talking about the TV channel.
[11:21.710 --> 11:22.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't realize you were talking about it.
[11:22.410 --> 11:25.270]  [SPEAKER_04]: Hey, I know payphones in my neighborhood that still say Bell Atlantic, okay?
[11:26.330 --> 11:27.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: I still see none next thing.
[11:27.510 --> 11:29.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, but your bill doesn't say Bell Atlantic, does it?
[11:29.690 --> 11:30.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is not a bill.
[11:31.190 --> 11:32.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is something minor.
[11:32.630 --> 11:34.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is the equivalent of a payphone.
[11:34.130 --> 11:34.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it's something current.
[11:34.870 --> 11:36.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: What you're looking at is something that's outdated.
[11:36.550 --> 11:36.890]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no.
[11:37.190 --> 11:41.670]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, sorry, these web pages are, like, probably automatically generated, and they haven't changed that.
[11:41.670 --> 11:43.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: If it was an old story, I'd buy that.
[11:43.930 --> 11:44.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: If it was an old story.
[11:44.570 --> 11:45.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: But this is a new story.
[11:45.270 --> 11:46.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: If they were serious about changing their name.
[11:47.870 --> 11:48.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: What's the story?
[11:49.730 --> 11:52.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, in all the mayhem, I lost the story.
[11:52.390 --> 11:55.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: I understand they're going to be using the letterhead for a while, too.
[11:55.130 --> 11:56.270]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're just going to let it run out.
[11:57.930 --> 11:59.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: My point is proved.
[11:59.410 --> 11:59.650]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes.
[12:00.130 --> 12:02.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's a small story about the FCC.
[12:02.430 --> 12:05.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: Basically, there were some rumors that Michael Powell was going to resign.
[12:05.710 --> 12:12.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: But in today's Daily News, he mentioned that he's going to stay on until Bush finish his term.
[12:12.670 --> 12:13.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why would he resign?
[12:13.410 --> 12:15.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: The FCC fiasco with the 45 percent?
[12:16.190 --> 12:22.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: There was some news magazine, I don't remember which one, reported that he told them in some private interview that he's going to resign.
[12:22.450 --> 12:24.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: Because to spend time with his wife and kids.
[12:24.810 --> 12:26.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: But apparently that was not true.
[12:27.330 --> 12:29.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I didn't report them that, so I'm proud of myself.
[12:29.750 --> 12:31.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the main reason these guys get wives and kids.
[12:31.630 --> 12:36.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Is so that in case something bad happens to them, they can resign and say it's because they want to spend more time with their wife and kids.
[12:37.270 --> 12:37.470]  [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[12:37.830 --> 12:38.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[12:38.450 --> 12:38.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[12:38.950 --> 12:41.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: You don't see very many single guys retiring.
[12:41.910 --> 12:43.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because they know they're right.
[12:43.290 --> 12:43.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know?
[12:43.770 --> 12:45.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they stand up for what they believe in.
[12:45.510 --> 12:48.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they don't make stupid mistakes and back policies that have failed.
[12:48.730 --> 12:50.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because they know they don't have something to fall back on.
[12:50.790 --> 12:53.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: They can't say they want to spend time with, like, the dog and the cat.
[12:53.090 --> 12:55.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, it's true.
[12:55.850 --> 12:56.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Look into it.
[12:56.530 --> 12:56.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: You'll see.
[12:57.190 --> 12:58.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, I think there's something here.
[12:59.170 --> 12:59.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[12:59.410 --> 12:59.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[12:59.870 --> 13:01.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Here's an interesting story.
[13:01.350 --> 13:04.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: A hotel is being sued for using the Dewey system, Dewey Decimal System.
[13:04.430 --> 13:04.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: Ah, yes.
[13:04.890 --> 13:12.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: The non-profit library cooperative that owns the Dewey Decimal System has sued a library-themed luxury hotel in Manhattan for trademark infringement.
[13:13.410 --> 13:14.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's called the Library Hotel.
[13:14.950 --> 13:16.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: It overlooks the New York Public Library.
[13:16.730 --> 13:22.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, it's divided according to the classification system, with each floor dedicated to one of Dewey's ten categories.
[13:22.970 --> 13:32.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Room 700.003 includes books on the performing arts, for example, while room 800.001 has a collection of erotic literature.
[13:32.970 --> 13:43.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, in the lawsuit filed last week, lawyers for the Online Computer Library Center said the organization acquired the rights to the system in 1988 when it bought Forrest Press, which published Dewey Decimal Updates.
[13:43.690 --> 13:47.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Uh, the center charges libraries that use the system at least $500 per year.
[13:47.890 --> 13:48.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't know that.
[13:49.890 --> 13:50.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[13:50.910 --> 14:03.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, Melville Dewey created the system, uh, used in 95% of all public and K-12 school libraries in 1873, uh, but it's continually updated with numbers assigned to more than 100,000 new works each year.
[14:04.450 --> 14:10.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: A person who came to the hotel's website would think they were passing themselves off as connected with the owner of the Dewey Decimal Classification System.
[14:10.630 --> 14:11.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Who cares, you know?
[14:11.730 --> 14:12.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean...
[14:12.150 --> 14:14.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: It really was a nice idea for a theme.
[14:14.490 --> 14:15.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a nice idea for a theme.
[14:15.690 --> 14:16.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know why they're getting all upset about it.
[14:16.950 --> 14:24.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think actually, actually, it, um, it, it, it gets people involved in, in, in thinking about, uh, Dewey Decimal System and, and libraries and things like that.
[14:24.670 --> 14:25.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: It gets people interested.
[14:25.490 --> 14:25.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Exactly.
[14:26.090 --> 14:27.770]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's free advertising for them.
[14:28.150 --> 14:28.550]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[14:28.610 --> 14:41.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: I would love to hear from a librarian who could tell us what the Dewey Decimal number is for a certain body part so we can send it to the people who own the Dewey Decimal System to tell us, to tell them what we actually think of them.
[14:41.370 --> 14:45.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was the voice of Jim, by the way, suggesting that, not anybody else at this, uh, program.
[14:45.670 --> 14:46.730]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not that specific.
[14:47.470 --> 14:48.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Are you sure?
[14:48.590 --> 14:57.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's also, by the way, the Library of Congress, uh, catalog system that a lot of, especially larger libraries, are now starting to use, which is, I guess, copyright free.
[14:57.710 --> 15:00.050]  [SPEAKER_03]: So if you run a library, you might look into that.
[15:00.330 --> 15:14.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Someone sent us, uh, some, some, um, interesting comments from the Recording Industry of America, um, in response to the questions that we've been having over the past, uh, few weeks concerning whether it's okay to, uh, to download music if you own the music already.
[15:14.050 --> 15:26.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, basically, uh, according to this particular part of, uh, the RAA's website, um, it says, if you own an album, you can rip to MP3.
[15:27.210 --> 15:32.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, uh, this leads this particular person to ask, why should it matter whether you downloaded the files or ripped them?
[15:32.730 --> 15:34.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: The results are the same in the end.
[15:34.230 --> 15:36.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: You own the material and you possess a digital copy.
[15:37.210 --> 15:42.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, listen to what the Recording Industry of America says in response to the question, what is your stand on MP3?
[15:43.050 --> 15:45.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is one of those urban myths like alligators in the toilet.
[15:48.530 --> 15:52.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: MP3 is just a technology and the technology itself never did anything wrong.
[15:52.490 --> 15:56.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: There are lots of legal MP3s from great artists on many, many online sites.
[15:57.210 --> 16:05.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: The problem is that some people use MP3s to take one copy of an album and make that copy available on the Internet for hundreds of thousands of people.
[16:05.490 --> 16:06.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's not fair.
[16:06.770 --> 16:12.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you choose to take your own CDs and make copies for yourself on your computer or portable music player, that's great.
[16:13.030 --> 16:14.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's your music.
[16:14.610 --> 16:18.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: And we want you to enjoy it at home, at work, in the car, and on the jogging trail.
[16:19.290 --> 16:24.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the fact that technology exists to enable unlimited Internet distribution of music copies doesn't make it right.
[16:24.730 --> 16:26.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: But what did they say there?
[16:26.110 --> 16:27.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's, uh, significant.
[16:27.490 --> 16:29.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Can I listen to, uh, them on the subway?
[16:30.830 --> 16:31.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Honestly, why not?
[16:31.770 --> 16:32.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it says...
[16:32.690 --> 16:33.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: It gives a list.
[16:33.930 --> 16:37.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the point is, the point is that they say it's your music.
[16:37.210 --> 16:37.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: You own it.
[16:37.570 --> 16:38.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: But they don't believe that.
[16:38.410 --> 16:39.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they say it on their website.
[16:39.650 --> 16:45.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you can go to, uh, www.riaa.com slash issues slash ask slash default dot ASP.
[16:46.470 --> 16:48.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, um, I just find that pretty interesting.
[16:49.130 --> 16:52.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, um, again, the question remains, can you, uh, can you, can you do that?
[16:53.650 --> 16:54.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, Leo.
[16:54.570 --> 17:00.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, well, what if you copy a CD into MP3 format and then the CD breaks?
[17:01.250 --> 17:05.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Can you sell the MP3s to somebody else as if you're selling the CD?
[17:06.430 --> 17:07.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good question.
[17:08.190 --> 17:09.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Probably not, though.
[17:09.270 --> 17:11.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: I imagine if you break it, then that's, uh, the end of it.
[17:12.230 --> 17:12.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[17:12.630 --> 17:16.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you break the CD, it's like if you, you know, buy a vase and you break that, you can't get another one.
[17:16.670 --> 17:18.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's like losing the license in this case.
[17:18.450 --> 17:18.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Unless you have insurance on it.
[17:19.690 --> 17:22.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: That would be my thought, that you're, like, losing the license to do this in this case.
[17:22.810 --> 17:23.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's an idea, though.
[17:24.610 --> 17:26.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Insurance for your music.
[17:26.530 --> 17:32.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Like, and if you, if you, if your CD breaks or if they change formats and you have to buy it all over again, you're covered, so.
[17:32.450 --> 17:36.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: I would think this would be a normal homeowner's policy or a homeowner's policy with a writer, sort of.
[17:36.670 --> 17:38.090]  [SPEAKER_04]: You shouldn't have to buy it again.
[17:38.290 --> 17:41.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, if you own the album, you should be able to download the MP3s.
[17:42.170 --> 17:43.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or rip them.
[17:43.270 --> 17:48.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you could argue that the album doesn't sound as good as the MP3s.
[17:48.390 --> 17:50.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Therefore, you need to pay for that upgrade.
[17:51.030 --> 17:51.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right?
[17:51.630 --> 17:53.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: But then there are people who say vinyl sounds better, so.
[17:53.890 --> 17:54.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's true.
[17:54.450 --> 17:55.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: On the right system.
[17:55.470 --> 17:57.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: You can never actually get a definitive answer on this.
[17:58.490 --> 18:03.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: We had a lot of comments on our interview last week with Adrian Lamo.
[18:04.330 --> 18:06.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm an avid listener to your show from the UK.
[18:06.190 --> 18:08.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've read the adventures of Adrian Lamo for a number of years.
[18:08.830 --> 18:12.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd like to say this kind of activity is trademark Lamo activity.
[18:12.770 --> 18:16.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: He travels the country exploring networks from cyber cafes and copy shops.
[18:17.050 --> 18:21.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: He specializes in breaking into systems using his own tool of choice, a web browser.
[18:21.510 --> 18:30.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: After finding a security issue, he contacts the related company and offers his assistance in solving the problem, but neither requests or accepts a financial reward for his effort.
[18:30.450 --> 18:33.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: This methodology has kept him out of jail for his activity for a long time.
[18:33.590 --> 18:35.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: I personally find this approach highly commendable.
[18:35.790 --> 18:40.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wish all the best, Adrian, and to the participants in your show, and we'll follow the developments in both closely.
[18:40.790 --> 18:41.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Signed, Burt.
[18:41.510 --> 18:44.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Of course, we'll be following that case as it develops.
[18:45.630 --> 18:47.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: This person has a differing opinion, though.
[18:48.170 --> 18:50.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think Lamo deserves to be prosecuted.
[18:52.050 --> 18:55.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think it's just about breaking the law like Emmanuel likened it to.
[18:55.570 --> 18:57.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Adrian had access to someone else's important system.
[18:57.650 --> 18:58.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: It isn't an abandoned building.
[18:58.870 --> 19:01.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: I suspect someone at the Times could have felt very violated.
[19:02.170 --> 19:07.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then again, I'm somewhat conflicted as it seems like someone is out to punish Adrian because it eventually looked bad for them.
[19:07.230 --> 19:12.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the fact remains that when you mess with people's stuff, you shouldn't be too surprised if they try to take legal action.
[19:12.230 --> 19:16.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Signed, Matt, who also agrees that analogies don't really work for the situation.
[19:16.530 --> 19:20.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, then, you know, we shouldn't be making analogies if they don't work.
[19:20.570 --> 19:36.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think it's equivalent to invading someone's stuff, someone's privacy, because this is a company that has information about all kinds of people that didn't agree to be there in the first place, such as people who contributed to the Viewpoints page or editorial writers,
[19:37.510 --> 19:41.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: even reporters, and all their information, social security number, phone numbers, things like that.
[19:41.870 --> 19:45.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: That information was out there, and it was compromised.
[19:45.310 --> 19:48.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was compromised long before Adrian Lamo got there.
[19:48.730 --> 19:50.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he simply called attention to it.
[19:50.850 --> 19:53.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, of course, he's being prosecuted as if he made the hole appear.
[19:53.450 --> 19:54.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: The hole was there to start with.
[19:54.650 --> 20:09.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's the equivalent of, say, a company having a file cabinet outside in the street and you coming along and saying, hey, this file cabinet, look, it's not even locked, and it has all this personal information in it, and you telling someone about it, and you getting prosecuted for violating those people's privacy.
[20:09.650 --> 20:10.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Does that sound right to you?
[20:10.750 --> 20:13.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, no, and all he did really was add his...
[20:13.330 --> 20:15.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: He put stuff into the file cabinet.
[20:15.150 --> 20:16.130]  [SPEAKER_05]: He didn't take things out.
[20:16.330 --> 20:18.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: He put his information in.
[20:18.250 --> 20:19.430]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he didn't sink it in either.
[20:19.690 --> 20:21.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: He was pretty blatant about it.
[20:21.490 --> 20:23.190]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, made it very easy for them to find him.
[20:23.490 --> 20:25.630]  [SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, it's...
[20:26.410 --> 20:27.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's...
[20:27.130 --> 20:29.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: The New York Times strikes again as far as...
[20:30.550 --> 20:31.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: getting at their enemies, I guess.
[20:31.850 --> 20:32.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[20:33.650 --> 20:39.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: A lot of people also wrote in to try to help with my T-Mobile problems, which I haven't had time to really deal with.
[20:42.110 --> 20:42.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's see.
[20:42.650 --> 20:49.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Aaron from England writes in saying, I'm not 100% certain, but I would bet money that getting T-Mobile to send you a replacement SIM would solve your problem.
[20:49.510 --> 20:52.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: If your phone is less than a year old, they have to sort the problem out, at least in the UK.
[20:53.290 --> 21:00.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just tell them the SIMs have stopped working, and they should send another one free of charge, since if they don't, they won't make any money off of you, which I guess makes sense.
[21:00.690 --> 21:03.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, they are making money off me, because I'm still able to use my phone.
[21:03.190 --> 21:04.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: It just doesn't say the name of the phone company.
[21:05.510 --> 21:09.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: If they give you any hassle, tell a supervisor that you work on the radio, and that for a month you'll give them bad publicity.
[21:10.270 --> 21:14.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: And after that, tell them you'll incorporate an anti-T-Mobile message into Off the Hook's theme tune.
[21:14.950 --> 21:18.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you know, I don't like to use airtime as a weapon.
[21:19.290 --> 21:20.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it's absolutely necessary.
[21:20.990 --> 21:23.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: There are laws against extortion, too, aren't there?
[21:23.210 --> 21:24.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think there are laws against extortion.
[21:24.950 --> 21:29.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: But this isn't really extortion, because, you know, I'm paying for the service, and I'm not really getting the service, am I?
[21:29.490 --> 21:32.550]  [SPEAKER_05]: But the way you're combating it, you know, blackmail, extortion...
[21:32.550 --> 21:33.070]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, I'm not.
[21:33.270 --> 21:33.890]  [SPEAKER_05]: I understand.
[21:34.610 --> 21:36.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm saying why I'm not doing that.
[21:36.890 --> 21:43.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: This person also says, when I change SIMs in my mobile phones, some data not stored in the SIM, such as the last 10 numbers, is wiped out.
[21:43.910 --> 21:44.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not sure why.
[21:44.670 --> 21:46.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: It could be security-related, I suppose.
[21:47.210 --> 21:48.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: I would like to know why.
[21:48.290 --> 21:55.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: When I put a SIM in a mobile phone, the phone book loads instantly, except with Virgin Mobile, which works off the T-Mobile network over here in England.
[21:56.270 --> 21:58.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: When I put that SIM, it takes about a minute or two to load.
[21:58.930 --> 22:02.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: I thought all SIMs were built, or at least work the same, but obviously not.
[22:02.730 --> 22:06.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've had a friend confirm that his Virgin SIM takes ages...
[22:06.090 --> 22:07.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: I might have that smile off your face...
[22:07.590 --> 22:11.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: to load his phone book into his phone upon switching it on.
[22:12.290 --> 22:12.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[22:13.290 --> 22:15.410]  [SPEAKER_03]: I have a theory, but I don't think you want to hear it.
[22:16.570 --> 22:17.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Probably not.
[22:17.410 --> 22:21.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: Some random cell phone trivia is that Virgin Mobile works off the Sprint network here in the States.
[22:21.650 --> 22:25.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, well, that's a different Virgin Mobile network because there is no Sprint network overseas.
[22:27.450 --> 22:33.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, yeah, I appreciate the people who have written in saying that they might have answers.
[22:33.910 --> 22:36.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Danny B actually writes in too with another helpful suggestion.
[22:36.250 --> 22:37.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've had similar problems.
[22:37.310 --> 22:44.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: The reason seems to be the recent upgrade by T-Mobile in which they nationally standardized on a single mobile network code, MNC.
[22:45.010 --> 22:52.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: In the good old days, the Omnipoint network in the Northeast had its own code of 310-36, which might be right.
[22:52.790 --> 22:53.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not entirely sure.
[22:53.910 --> 22:57.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: The other areas that were initially Sprint Spectrum and Voice Stream had different ones.
[22:58.130 --> 23:00.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: My phone was pre-programmed to prefer the Omnipoint one.
[23:00.530 --> 23:03.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, now the T-Mobile has standardized on 310-26.
[23:04.330 --> 23:10.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: The phone sees it as a roaming and unpreferred one, just like it sees 310-38, which is used by AT&T.
[23:11.070 --> 23:16.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hence, it gets confused, isn't sure which one to latch on to, and it also takes a long time to latch on to any of them.
[23:17.470 --> 23:25.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: With my specific phone, I was able to go into the menu and after a whole bunch of non-intuitive steps tell it to prefer 310-26, it now works okay with voice, both outgoing and incoming.
[23:25.970 --> 23:31.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, it still doesn't receive email, which may require me to go to T-Mobile and pick up a new SIM card or something like that.
[23:31.850 --> 23:35.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, my email works just fine, but, you know, it's just a thing with me.
[23:35.850 --> 23:40.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'd like to see the name of the phone company I'm using, and it just kind of bothers me that it just says roaming all the time when I'm local.
[23:41.410 --> 23:42.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, I don't know.
[23:42.570 --> 23:45.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe buying a new phone will fix this, maybe getting a new SIM will fix this.
[23:45.570 --> 23:46.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's still, the jury's out on this.
[23:47.030 --> 23:48.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you're not getting charged for roaming, right?
[23:48.810 --> 23:49.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I haven't seen a bill yet.
[23:49.830 --> 23:52.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: I haven't even seen the bill for overseas, and I'm afraid of that.
[23:52.350 --> 23:55.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: And by the way, some interesting things happened as a result of this.
[23:56.530 --> 24:00.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: You would think that my phone bill for using my GSM phone overseas would be astronomical.
[24:01.110 --> 24:02.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: It might be.
[24:02.190 --> 24:02.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: I haven't seen it yet.
[24:03.110 --> 24:07.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you would also think that my Sprint phone, which was sitting here nicely at home, would be nice and cheap.
[24:08.150 --> 24:09.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you'd be wrong.
[24:10.630 --> 24:11.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Guess what happened?
[24:11.890 --> 24:21.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I decided that while I was away, it would make sense to have my Sprint phone forward to my answering machine so that, you know, messages wouldn't expire after a couple of weeks.
[24:21.150 --> 24:22.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wouldn't have to check various places.
[24:22.850 --> 24:27.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: And plus, I can check my messages using this company called Zetel.
[24:27.070 --> 24:28.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: I can check them on the Internet.
[24:28.690 --> 24:31.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Simply plug headphones into a computer, go to their website, and check messages that way.
[24:32.070 --> 24:35.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I had my Sprint phone forwarding to that so I wouldn't have to pay anything to listen to my messages.
[24:36.070 --> 24:36.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right?
[24:36.230 --> 24:36.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Makes sense.
[24:37.110 --> 24:47.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, it sort of fell apart because I also have a toll-free number that I had been forwarding to my Sprint phone because a lot of people like to call me who are too poor to spend money to call me.
[24:47.530 --> 24:58.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I have an 800 number and it goes to the Sprint phone and for some reason all these people were calling that 800 number from some part of Canada and I was wondering why this happened.
[24:58.730 --> 24:59.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: This went on for months.
[24:59.630 --> 25:02.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: I thought it was because they were amused by that greeting that I recorded here on this show.
[25:02.930 --> 25:04.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Remember the one that said, what the hell do you want?
[25:05.010 --> 25:08.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Go back in time and listen to the archives.
[25:08.230 --> 25:14.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was demonstrating how to record the Sprint prompt and get the beep instead of the extended prompts there.
[25:14.970 --> 25:17.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: And all these people kept calling all the time.
[25:17.130 --> 25:18.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm from the same area constantly.
[25:18.750 --> 25:23.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was like, why are these people calling just to hear that message?
[25:23.250 --> 25:23.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not that funny.
[25:24.450 --> 25:36.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I finally found out a week ago that this First Nations band somewhere in Canada has a toll-free number that's exactly the same as my toll-free number except it's 866 instead of 800.
[25:36.890 --> 25:41.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: So when people say call toll-free they naturally assume it's 800 and I was getting all these calls.
[25:41.910 --> 25:47.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: The problem is the 800 number was forwarding to my Sprint number which was forwarding to my answering machine.
[25:47.410 --> 25:55.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: While I was away I was getting all these calls on the 800 number that was going to the Sprint phone and forwarding to the answering machine.
[25:56.030 --> 25:58.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, Sprint charges you every time they forward a call.
[25:59.650 --> 26:00.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Every time.
[26:00.690 --> 26:02.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ten cents every time that happened.
[26:02.250 --> 26:08.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's bad enough I had to pay for the toll-free calls that were coming in but I also had to pay when Sprint bounced it over even though it wasn't really doing anything that amazing.
[26:08.850 --> 26:10.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: I thought it was part of my minutes.
[26:10.690 --> 26:12.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I thought it was included in your minutes.
[26:12.150 --> 26:13.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, what's different about it?
[26:13.610 --> 26:24.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's making a local call but apparently it's doing something that's worth ten cents each time it does it and so I got to pay like several dollars per day because of all these people that have been calling.
[26:25.150 --> 26:26.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: I straightened it up by the way.
[26:26.370 --> 26:32.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: I talked to members of the band and I haven't gotten a single call in the last week so I'm happy about that but it's a little too late for me.
[26:32.690 --> 26:33.850]  [SPEAKER_04]: Those evil Canadians.
[26:34.670 --> 26:35.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
[26:35.750 --> 26:36.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: We also...
[26:36.550 --> 26:38.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: Mike, you don't remember the name of the company we were using, do you?
[26:38.750 --> 26:40.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: For the toll-free access overseas?
[26:41.790 --> 26:44.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's like AI telephone or something like that.
[26:45.030 --> 26:48.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know we've been meaning to give out that information but I think it might be nice.
[26:48.410 --> 26:48.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you have the information?
[26:49.090 --> 26:49.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: I may have it with you.
[26:49.730 --> 26:51.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think you have the actual...
[26:51.450 --> 26:53.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: I have the pages that were printed out.
[26:54.130 --> 26:54.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: You do?
[26:54.430 --> 26:55.230]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, so you might have it.
[26:55.550 --> 26:56.850]  [SPEAKER_05]: This company's really shady though.
[26:57.430 --> 26:58.270]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why would you say that?
[26:58.370 --> 27:05.490]  [SPEAKER_03]: Well, you call them and when you register with their service they call you and...
[27:05.490 --> 27:09.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: By the way, this is the service that allows you to forward a phone number overseas which you cannot do through Verizon.
[27:09.650 --> 27:10.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: We should have been clear about that.
[27:13.310 --> 27:20.150]  [SPEAKER_03]: They call you and if you're like many of us you don't answer the phone so I had to call them back and...
[27:20.150 --> 27:21.790]  [SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean if you're like many of us you don't answer them?
[27:21.830 --> 27:22.630]  [SPEAKER_03]: Why don't you answer the phone?
[27:22.890 --> 27:24.870]  [SPEAKER_03]: The phone number I gave them doesn't actually ring.
[27:26.110 --> 27:26.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[27:26.610 --> 27:27.350]  [SPEAKER_03]: But that's another story.
[27:27.410 --> 27:27.610]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[27:29.250 --> 27:36.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: And then you call them back and they don't really know Oh, a company you want and you have to ask for the... you have to remember the name of the guy who sends you the email or you'll never get it.
[27:37.790 --> 27:38.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a small company.
[27:39.450 --> 27:40.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know.
[27:40.830 --> 27:44.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was talking to them once and they said, hold on, I'll get you the technical assistant.
[27:44.970 --> 27:50.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it really sounded like they were like handing the phone over, like they were still in bed or something.
[27:50.270 --> 27:52.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they were handing the phone over to like somebody next to them.
[27:52.790 --> 27:53.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what it sounded like.
[27:53.930 --> 27:57.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Heard all this phone noise and people talking like muffled in the background.
[27:58.130 --> 27:59.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then this person said, hello, can I help you?
[27:59.510 --> 28:02.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, but they were very helpful when they did get on the phone.
[28:02.630 --> 28:03.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're very nice.
[28:03.270 --> 28:08.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: And if you want to change the forwarding number, you have to visit this website that doesn't have a name.
[28:08.350 --> 28:10.390]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's just this number 63 dot something.
[28:11.410 --> 28:12.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's just, it's all a little strange.
[28:13.230 --> 28:14.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, do you want the...
[28:14.250 --> 28:17.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I want to make sure you're giving the right one because there was also an internal one that I don't want you to give out.
[28:17.990 --> 28:19.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: It has all the information.
[28:19.610 --> 28:20.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, that is the right information.
[28:21.210 --> 28:22.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay, that's what I thought.
[28:23.230 --> 28:25.710]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's the American International Telefonics.
[28:27.290 --> 28:28.490]  [SPEAKER_05]: American International Telefonics.
[28:28.490 --> 28:31.830]  [SPEAKER_05]: American International Calling Plans Designed to Save You Money.
[28:32.890 --> 28:39.210]  [SPEAKER_05]: HTTP colon slash slash www.aitelephone.com.
[28:40.030 --> 28:41.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right, that's what you need to go to.
[28:41.510 --> 28:42.590]  [SPEAKER_05]: If you want to phone them, U.S.
[28:42.670 --> 28:47.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: and Canada, 1-800-600-6151.
[28:47.710 --> 28:48.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[28:48.390 --> 28:49.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's interesting.
[28:49.890 --> 28:51.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: We haven't seen the bill yet.
[28:51.490 --> 28:54.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've seen the bill online, but I haven't seen the bill actually on the credit card statement.
[28:54.590 --> 28:58.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: So I want to make sure that everything goes smoothly before I can officially recommend them.
[28:58.690 --> 28:59.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: But it did seem to work.
[29:00.530 --> 29:01.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Worked pretty well.
[29:01.210 --> 29:01.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: So that was unofficial?
[29:02.170 --> 29:03.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was unofficial, yeah.
[29:03.310 --> 29:05.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's, you know, a fact-finding type of a thing.
[29:05.950 --> 29:10.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's see, you know, what these guys are good for other people as well.
[29:10.210 --> 29:11.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: They seem to be pretty good for us.
[29:11.850 --> 29:14.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know how you can get such low rates overseas.
[29:14.190 --> 29:16.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Four cents a minute to Moscow with a toll-free number.
[29:17.170 --> 29:17.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Imagine that.
[29:17.590 --> 29:19.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: You pick up, you call a toll-free number, you get connected to somebody in Moscow.
[29:20.570 --> 29:23.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: It costs them four cents a minute because they're paying for the toll-free number.
[29:23.770 --> 29:24.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that's it.
[29:24.590 --> 29:25.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: No other charges.
[29:26.010 --> 29:26.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's what we're told.
[29:27.130 --> 29:30.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: So we're going to keep looking into this and see what else happens.
[29:31.210 --> 29:33.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, some more listener mail, and then we'll take some phone calls.
[29:33.630 --> 29:35.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-209-2900.
[29:37.030 --> 29:39.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: And Rebel, if you're picking up the phone now, just don't even bother.
[29:39.770 --> 29:41.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's not worth the effort.
[29:41.510 --> 29:42.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's so many other things you could be doing.
[29:43.870 --> 29:51.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: But everyone else who complains about not getting into the system because certain people call in with five-line phones, now's your time.
[29:51.570 --> 29:52.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-209-2900.
[29:53.090 --> 29:54.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: The country code is one.
[29:54.590 --> 29:54.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: It is.
[29:55.090 --> 29:56.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: We got a question from a listener.
[29:56.930 --> 29:57.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
[29:57.890 --> 29:58.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Country code is one.
[29:59.090 --> 30:00.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: A lot of people in America don't know that, too.
[30:02.310 --> 30:05.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: This person has a question, which I also had a question about.
[30:05.510 --> 30:06.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: The U.S.
[30:06.230 --> 30:16.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: government seeking to meet the threat posed to airliners by shoulder-fired missiles said on Thursday it had asked companies to help adapt military anti-missile technology for use on passenger jets.
[30:17.010 --> 30:21.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: And the question is, so now if a plane gets hijacked and they want to shoot it down, will they still be able to?
[30:22.270 --> 30:25.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's something that I think a lot of people didn't think of.
[30:25.550 --> 30:26.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm sure they have thought of it.
[30:27.810 --> 30:29.050]  [SPEAKER_04]: So how's it going to work?
[30:29.190 --> 30:35.570]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I would think they would go the old Star Trek routine where you can turn off the defenses from outside if you know the codes.
[30:35.730 --> 30:36.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you know the codes.
[30:37.170 --> 30:38.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: And so how do you find out the codes?
[30:39.250 --> 30:39.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know?
[30:40.050 --> 30:41.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: Same way you get the missiles in the first place.
[30:41.950 --> 30:42.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have connections.
[30:43.190 --> 30:45.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: The code is 1234.
[30:46.890 --> 30:47.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Don't laugh.
[30:47.630 --> 30:48.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: It probably is.
[30:48.290 --> 30:48.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's probably the default.
[30:50.070 --> 30:51.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, this person's a bit disturbed.
[30:51.910 --> 30:55.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, no, I meant that in, you know, a confused type of word.
[30:55.550 --> 30:55.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know what I mean.
[30:55.930 --> 30:56.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Angry.
[30:56.570 --> 30:57.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, not even angry.
[30:57.530 --> 30:58.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: Just kind of disturbed.
[30:59.270 --> 30:59.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Upset.
[30:59.670 --> 31:00.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: About something that happened to them.
[31:00.930 --> 31:02.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's share the story.
[31:03.170 --> 31:07.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: I had occasion to order something from Office Depot via Amazon.com recently.
[31:07.870 --> 31:13.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: This morning I phoned the Office Depot customer service line at their 888 number.
[31:13.830 --> 31:18.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: The operator identified herself by first and last name, which he considered to be a good thing.
[31:18.370 --> 31:20.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not sure if I consider that a good thing, but never mind.
[31:20.690 --> 31:23.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: I stated who I was and that I wanted to check on the status of my order.
[31:24.190 --> 31:26.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: What happened next is why I am writing.
[31:26.390 --> 31:30.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Without asking for an order number or anything, she said, your order will arrive sometime next week.
[31:31.330 --> 31:35.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: My next statement was, how did you know that without asking me for my order number?
[31:35.470 --> 31:40.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: However, the operator then flubbed a bit and said that it came up on her screen when I told her my name.
[31:40.890 --> 31:45.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: I know that without asking for the spelling, she would not have been able to look it up that easily or nearly that fast.
[31:46.150 --> 31:53.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: I suspect their phone system has some kind of hook into a database of customers, and it does a search based on the phone number in the caller ID, or maybe based on the name.
[31:54.210 --> 31:59.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: When I worked for ANS, we had caller ID with name on our phones in the NOC.
[31:59.290 --> 32:02.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: So it's possible that they have a database tracking this stuff.
[32:02.870 --> 32:04.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe you guys can help me figure out how this works.
[32:04.910 --> 32:09.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm all for good customer service and that, but I was a little taken aback by the mind reading that occurred.
[32:09.610 --> 32:12.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I told the operator that, but maybe you guys can do some exploring, Sign Jones.
[32:12.950 --> 32:15.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, this actually isn't that new.
[32:15.710 --> 32:21.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, this has been going on for quite some time, where databases are tied into caller ID or ANI systems.
[32:22.010 --> 32:30.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: And if you've given them your phone number in the past, or called them in the past, and they've taken note of your phone number, they have something, some point of reference that they will link with you.
[32:30.390 --> 32:38.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, the only thing... I still think they should have verified with you, because you could have been calling from a friend's house and getting information about the wrong order.
[32:39.290 --> 32:41.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: But this kind of thing has been going on for years.
[32:41.450 --> 32:45.650]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we've pointed it out more than once, that 800 numbers are tied into ANI.
[32:46.410 --> 32:48.230]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it comes up on a screen.
[32:48.310 --> 32:54.490]  [SPEAKER_04]: Even if you're not necessarily a customer, it'll pop up with the name and address of the calling telephone.
[32:54.750 --> 33:01.330]  [SPEAKER_05]: There is one other point that you're not making here, is just about everybody I call to find out where my stuff is, they say, it'll be there next week.
[33:01.450 --> 33:03.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: So, I don't know why he's so disturbed.
[33:03.610 --> 33:03.610]  That's the default answer.
[33:03.650 --> 33:05.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's the default answer there.
[33:05.410 --> 33:06.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Leo, you have a question?
[33:06.550 --> 33:10.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was just going to point out that Domino's Pizza also uses this technology.
[33:11.130 --> 33:12.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, they've been using it for a while.
[33:12.630 --> 33:15.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: You call them up, and they know your address.
[33:15.630 --> 33:23.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's a great way to get information from Domino's, because they'll tell you an address of somebody if you're able to fake the caller ID somehow.
[33:24.150 --> 33:27.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: They've been used as a good source of information.
[33:27.790 --> 33:29.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: This person wants information.
[33:29.410 --> 33:30.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm listening to the show.
[33:30.330 --> 33:33.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I wanted to call him with a question, but some people hog up the lines.
[33:34.390 --> 33:36.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: My question is, I own a pizzeria.
[33:36.630 --> 33:37.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hired a delivery person.
[33:37.950 --> 33:40.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I just have his name and cell phone number.
[33:40.050 --> 33:41.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: He took some money from the store.
[33:41.470 --> 33:42.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: I want to find out where he lives.
[33:42.630 --> 33:43.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he gives his phone number.
[33:44.010 --> 33:49.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: He called that phone number, followed by the letters mail as the extension, and also 9901.
[33:50.190 --> 33:53.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they both belong to somebody's cell numbers.
[33:54.350 --> 33:55.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's interesting.
[33:55.230 --> 34:01.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you did the right thing by calling those two numbers, because oftentimes that does give you a hint as to who the cellular company is.
[34:02.750 --> 34:04.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a couple of things here.
[34:04.190 --> 34:13.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Unless this person took your life savings, it's probably not worth the effort that you're going to go through, and the hassle and grief that you find when you do discover where this person is.
[34:14.850 --> 34:16.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: I would make it policy.
[34:16.390 --> 34:17.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's just me talking.
[34:17.590 --> 34:20.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: I would make it policy to find out where the person lives before you hire them.
[34:21.770 --> 34:26.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that way, if they do something bad like this, you know where to go to confront them about it.
[34:27.590 --> 34:30.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: But there are many ways to get information, though.
[34:31.030 --> 34:35.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, obviously, if you have the person's name, you should be able to get a lot of information from that.
[34:36.450 --> 34:42.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: The cell phone number might give you an indication of where the person lives, at least, you know, what state or what borough or something like that.
[34:43.610 --> 34:45.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's a number of different ways you can...
[34:45.090 --> 34:47.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, what would you guys do if something like this happened to you?
[34:47.130 --> 34:50.010]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, it depends on the age of the person, because they can be transient.
[34:50.010 --> 34:50.870]  [SPEAKER_05]: They can be in an apartment.
[34:50.990 --> 34:51.450]  [SPEAKER_05]: They can move.
[34:57.170 --> 35:02.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: Use that guise so that, you know, hey, if something happens to you, you're in an accident while you're delivering for me, you know, I've got to be able to call your mom.
[35:03.550 --> 35:04.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: And then you can follow that up.
[35:05.310 --> 35:06.090]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is this your son?
[35:06.170 --> 35:06.690]  [SPEAKER_05]: Is this where you live?
[35:06.730 --> 35:06.950]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
[35:07.130 --> 35:08.470]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's a little late for this guy.
[35:08.690 --> 35:09.250]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, of course.
[35:09.390 --> 35:10.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: But he was asking, what would you do?
[35:11.070 --> 35:12.050]  [SPEAKER_05]: That's what I would do.
[35:12.130 --> 35:22.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you know, you can still find out what phone company it is by blocking caller ID, obviously, calling the number, say, late at night when the person probably doesn't have it on.
[35:22.710 --> 35:23.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: It goes to voicemail.
[35:23.550 --> 35:29.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: You take note of the way the prompts sound, and hopefully you're able to match it to a phone company.
[35:30.230 --> 35:32.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Then from there, you can try things.
[35:32.490 --> 35:35.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not suggesting people do this, because you have to have some practice in order for it to work.
[35:35.970 --> 35:39.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: But calling the cell phone company saying, yeah, I'm having trouble with this.
[35:39.330 --> 35:40.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is my phone number.
[35:40.810 --> 35:41.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sorry, I don't know my name.
[35:41.850 --> 35:42.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, no, he doesn't know the name.
[35:42.750 --> 35:43.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: So he'll have that as well.
[35:44.150 --> 35:46.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: But my address changed, and you probably have the wrong address.
[35:46.910 --> 35:49.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: And when they ask for your current address, suddenly you can't hear them or something like that.
[35:50.010 --> 35:51.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or I don't know.
[35:51.210 --> 35:53.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: There's all kinds of ways to get them to give you the information.
[35:53.190 --> 35:56.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: People give information out they shouldn't give all the time.
[35:56.310 --> 35:57.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's really...
[35:57.950 --> 35:59.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've had phone companies do this.
[35:59.270 --> 36:01.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I've had phone companies tell me my secret code.
[36:02.370 --> 36:04.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: When I couldn't remember my secret code, they're giving me hints.
[36:05.710 --> 36:07.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they're making the hints bigger and bigger.
[36:07.650 --> 36:09.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: And when I get it, they're very happy.
[36:09.850 --> 36:10.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: They accomplished something.
[36:11.150 --> 36:12.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's between four and six.
[36:13.450 --> 36:14.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Come on, you can do this.
[36:16.450 --> 36:21.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: One person actually was whistling a song to me, okay, because it resembled a theme song to a commercial.
[36:22.130 --> 36:23.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: And that was like the key word to the commercial.
[36:23.970 --> 36:25.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they were actually doing that.
[36:25.110 --> 36:26.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: They were whistling a song to me over the phone.
[36:27.110 --> 36:30.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't remember which phone company this was, because if I did, I'd certainly label who they were.
[36:30.610 --> 36:33.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, I had to figure it out.
[36:33.190 --> 36:33.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you know what?
[36:33.570 --> 36:34.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't get it.
[36:34.210 --> 36:35.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I didn't understand what they were saying.
[36:35.490 --> 36:36.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: And then they explained it to me.
[36:36.830 --> 36:38.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: They explained to me what they were doing.
[36:38.490 --> 36:41.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, they said it's that commercial, and they even said the word.
[36:42.130 --> 36:42.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, yeah.
[36:43.370 --> 36:45.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: As long as there's humans involved, you give it every information.
[36:45.470 --> 36:53.970]  [SPEAKER_03]: To answer the question posed in the email, though, there are free databases mapping prefixes to phone companies.
[36:54.210 --> 36:55.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right, but they won't be good for much longer.
[36:56.030 --> 36:56.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's true.
[36:56.710 --> 36:57.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because of portability.
[36:57.230 --> 37:08.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: And on that subject, apparently Verizon has taken a step in the portability department, and they're going to actually allow land numbers to have cellular exchanges.
[37:08.790 --> 37:18.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: They've announced an agreement on Monday, this just happened, that will enable their customers to turn the telephone number on a home or office line into the wireless number for a cell phone.
[37:19.050 --> 37:20.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Pretty amazing, huh?
[37:20.970 --> 37:25.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: The arrangement essentially required by federal rules set to take effect November 24th.
[37:25.530 --> 37:30.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Actually, it's really not required, because what's required is for cellular companies to be able to do this on November 24th.
[37:30.210 --> 37:31.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know anything about landline companies.
[37:31.430 --> 37:33.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's eventually to be required, I think.
[37:33.590 --> 37:34.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: It would be nice.
[37:34.850 --> 37:42.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's designed to help stem the potential loss of customers to rival cell phone companies while wrinkling wireless rivals who still oppose the new rules.
[37:44.190 --> 37:45.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: I disagree.
[37:45.670 --> 37:46.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: You disagree with what?
[37:46.670 --> 37:47.990]  [SPEAKER_05]: I don't think that's why they're doing it.
[37:48.130 --> 37:52.390]  [SPEAKER_05]: They want to be able to confuse, for the telemarketers, landlines and cell phones.
[37:53.730 --> 37:54.350]  [SPEAKER_05]: I guess.
[37:54.350 --> 37:57.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're going to get telemarketing calls on your cell phone.
[37:57.070 --> 37:57.370]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, that is true.
[37:57.370 --> 37:58.110]  [SPEAKER_05]: You're going to pay for it.
[37:58.170 --> 37:58.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: How are you going to prevent that?
[37:58.990 --> 38:01.910]  [SPEAKER_05]: Well, just don't get it a landline number.
[38:03.750 --> 38:07.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Unless there's some other way to identify a wireless phone.
[38:07.730 --> 38:08.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't really know.
[38:08.710 --> 38:11.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe a recording before the ring, or maybe a different kind of ring.
[38:11.490 --> 38:11.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ah, there you go.
[38:12.050 --> 38:13.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: A different kind of ring for wireless phones.
[38:13.530 --> 38:14.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't like this.
[38:15.250 --> 38:27.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anyway, aside from Verizon Wireless, which only recently broke ranks with the industry, major cell phone companies continue to oppose the new rules, which will free millions of mobile phone users who don't want to give up an established wireless number to change services.
[38:28.070 --> 38:36.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: The change is expected to produce the biggest impact among business users who have disseminated their current cell phone numbers to customers, associates, and other crucial contacts.
[38:37.030 --> 38:38.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, it's interesting.
[38:38.070 --> 38:48.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to ask yourself, why do these companies, and we know why, but what's their reason for saying this, for opposing something that allows such convenience, that allows you to switch from one company to another?
[38:48.130 --> 39:03.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: If they're not providing good service, you know, it seems pretty obvious they're worried people are going to leave their company because they're providing lousy service, like Sprint PCS, for instance, where everybody's going to leave them on November 24th and change their phone into some other kind of phone,
[39:04.930 --> 39:05.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: or phone number, anyway.
[39:06.070 --> 39:06.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: You still have to get a different phone.
[39:08.310 --> 39:08.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know.
[39:08.990 --> 39:14.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: It just seems kind of a hard position to justify, opposing something that's obviously fair like that.
[39:15.930 --> 39:22.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: One interesting thing about this is you'll be able to have a cell phone in the 212 area code, which was never possible until now.
[39:23.110 --> 39:24.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, and that was the whole reason for having 917.
[39:25.090 --> 39:25.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was for the cell...
[39:26.270 --> 39:29.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: 917 is already being used for landlines, so the opposite is going to be true.
[39:29.930 --> 39:33.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212 will be able to be used for cell phones, once again, like it was.
[39:35.070 --> 39:41.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's another letter for someone that suggested that we check out the forum at www.cellphonehacks.com.
[39:42.270 --> 39:49.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's also for information on the T-Mobile problems we were having, but I imagine you can find all kinds of information on all kinds of cell phone things.
[39:50.710 --> 39:51.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[39:51.530 --> 39:52.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, let's...
[39:52.130 --> 39:53.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, and also, one more story.
[39:53.450 --> 39:53.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: The...
[39:53.890 --> 40:00.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if you guys heard about this, but Microsoft is dropping their chat room services in 28 countries next month.
[40:00.550 --> 40:04.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're doing this because they want to stop pedophiles and junk emailers.
[40:05.290 --> 40:11.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: So they're only going to be offering pay services so that they can keep an eye on these people better.
[40:12.590 --> 40:13.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Does anybody believe this?
[40:14.730 --> 40:16.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Does anybody believe they really care?
[40:17.270 --> 40:18.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Now, this guy gets it.
[40:19.110 --> 40:22.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: The director for the Foundation of Information Policy Research, a technology think tank.
[40:22.850 --> 40:23.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: His name is Ian Brown.
[40:23.850 --> 40:26.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're trying to move people to their paid subscription sites.
[40:26.430 --> 40:30.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: They are shutting down services for which people are not paying and getting a good bit of PR out of it.
[40:31.870 --> 40:32.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, exactly.
[40:33.990 --> 40:36.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: But I don't know how many people use Microsoft Internet Chats.
[40:37.490 --> 40:37.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Anybody?
[40:38.150 --> 40:39.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Leo, you use Microsoft Internet Chats?
[40:39.590 --> 40:39.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, it's like...
[40:39.970 --> 40:40.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're raising your hand like you do.
[40:41.030 --> 40:51.970]  [SPEAKER_07]: I want to point out that AOL, like most of the pedophile cases, the online cases that you hear about, they take place in AOL, which is in their chat rooms, which are already paid for.
[40:52.350 --> 40:54.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: So in other words, this will not stem the problem.
[40:55.550 --> 40:55.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's...
[40:56.370 --> 40:57.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: I hope Microsoft is listening.
[40:57.610 --> 40:59.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Maybe they'll shut down all their chat rooms.
[41:00.070 --> 41:02.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: I actually think they did shut down all their chat rooms.
[41:02.330 --> 41:04.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, how come AOL hasn't shut down their chat rooms?
[41:04.350 --> 41:05.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because they're paid chat rooms.
[41:05.990 --> 41:08.950]  [SPEAKER_03]: Many of these criminals use Microsoft Windows if they would just stop selling that.
[41:09.150 --> 41:10.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: I was going to say, it could be.
[41:10.950 --> 41:12.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Or, yeah, computers in general.
[41:12.450 --> 41:19.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: If Microsoft really wants to stop pedophiles and other junk mail and stuff, they should just shut down totally.
[41:19.630 --> 41:23.030]  [SPEAKER_04]: Stop using computers, because if we get rid of those, we'll get rid of all the criminals as well.
[41:23.170 --> 41:24.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: Right, go back to rocks.
[41:24.270 --> 41:25.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: 212-209-2900.
[41:26.130 --> 41:26.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's take a phone call.
[41:26.930 --> 41:27.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: And good evening.
[41:27.490 --> 41:28.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[41:28.830 --> 41:29.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hello.
[41:29.450 --> 41:29.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, go ahead.
[41:30.050 --> 41:30.310]  [SPEAKER_11]: How are you?
[41:30.650 --> 41:31.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: A couple of quick things.
[41:31.650 --> 41:35.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm a fairly new Singular customer, and I'm having oodles of trouble.
[41:36.490 --> 41:43.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: People that call me in the evening, 7 p.m., 8 p.m., most often get an error message when they call me.
[41:44.130 --> 41:45.890]  [SPEAKER_11]: They get, all circuits are busy now.
[41:47.070 --> 41:53.670]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'd say about 60 or 70 or even more, a percent of the time, they have to call me over and over, and they get this message.
[41:53.890 --> 41:56.150]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I tell Singular about it.
[41:56.150 --> 42:01.610]  [SPEAKER_11]: I've told them a couple of times, and they are trying to troubleshoot it.
[42:01.790 --> 42:03.050]  [SPEAKER_11]: First, they blamed it on...
[42:03.050 --> 42:04.590]  [SPEAKER_11]: They came up with all kinds of weird excuses.
[42:05.490 --> 42:07.970]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're blaming it on the landline service.
[42:08.270 --> 42:10.210]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're blaming it on T-Mobile.
[42:10.490 --> 42:13.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: T-Mobile is now involved in the troubleshooting.
[42:14.090 --> 42:16.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're calling, doing test calls.
[42:18.250 --> 42:21.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: But nobody's owning up to the trouble.
[42:21.610 --> 42:25.990]  [SPEAKER_11]: The trouble is probably just over, you know, too much hardware out there.
[42:26.090 --> 42:26.230]  [SPEAKER_11]: Well...
[42:26.230 --> 42:27.290]  [SPEAKER_11]: Because they offer...
[42:27.290 --> 42:31.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: They're new, and they're offering attractive plans, and they probably oversold their stuff.
[42:32.250 --> 42:33.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's exactly it.
[42:33.070 --> 42:35.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: And they're using T-Mobile's network, the GSM network there.
[42:35.650 --> 42:37.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're reselling T-Mobile's service.
[42:37.170 --> 42:38.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: So that's why T-Mobile is involved.
[42:38.770 --> 42:40.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: But yeah, does it happen about the same time every evening?
[42:40.810 --> 42:42.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Yeah, it happens between about 7 and 10 p.m.
[42:42.750 --> 42:44.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's a very popular calling time.
[42:44.230 --> 42:45.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: A lot of people are calling then.
[42:45.290 --> 42:48.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: And there's too many calls going through for the circuits that they have.
[42:48.550 --> 42:50.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: So they need to expand their resources.
[42:50.690 --> 42:50.830]  [SPEAKER_11]: Right.
[42:51.010 --> 42:56.510]  [SPEAKER_11]: We had that trouble with Sprint PCS in the early days when they were first rolling out their stuff like three or four years ago.
[42:56.510 --> 42:56.910]  [SPEAKER_11]: That's right.
[42:57.370 --> 43:00.090]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay, the second thing I want to talk about is Commerce Bank.
[43:00.990 --> 43:04.330]  [SPEAKER_11]: My daughter has a checking account with them, and she lives in Pennsylvania.
[43:04.330 --> 43:05.130]  [SPEAKER_11]: She's a student.
[43:06.030 --> 43:08.690]  [SPEAKER_11]: I'm not on the account at all, but when I walk into...
[43:08.690 --> 43:09.770]  [SPEAKER_11]: and I send her money sometimes.
[43:09.770 --> 43:21.790]  [SPEAKER_11]: I walk into a branch, and I handwrite a deposit slip with her checking account number on it, and I hand them the cash, and they hand back to me a receipt, and they print her balance on it.
[43:21.930 --> 43:22.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Ooh.
[43:22.570 --> 43:23.270]  [SPEAKER_11]: Isn't that cool?
[43:23.790 --> 43:25.350]  [SPEAKER_11]: And I'm not on the account at all.
[43:26.170 --> 43:26.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's actually...
[43:26.930 --> 43:27.530]  [SPEAKER_11]: That could be anybody.
[43:27.650 --> 43:28.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: That could be anybody dropping their cash.
[43:28.910 --> 43:32.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's actually a trick that some people use when they're owed money by somebody.
[43:32.790 --> 43:35.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: What they do is they go and...
[43:35.170 --> 43:37.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's say someone gives you a check that bounces, okay?
[43:37.570 --> 43:39.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's say the check is for...
[43:39.190 --> 43:40.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, 50 grand.
[43:40.430 --> 43:41.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, let's make it interesting.
[43:41.210 --> 43:41.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[43:41.330 --> 43:46.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: 50 grand, and you find out that they're overdrawn by, say, 100 bucks.
[43:46.990 --> 43:49.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: You deposit 100 bucks into their account.
[43:49.450 --> 43:52.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: All of a sudden, that check is good, and you can withdraw it.
[43:52.630 --> 43:52.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ah.
[43:52.770 --> 43:54.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: You see how easy it is?
[43:54.190 --> 43:54.470]  [SPEAKER_11]: Cool.
[43:54.750 --> 43:56.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you haven't really lost 100 bucks in it, either, so...
[43:56.890 --> 43:57.850]  [SPEAKER_11]: No, you've gotten your money.
[43:57.930 --> 43:58.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[43:58.390 --> 44:00.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: So that trick is used.
[44:00.570 --> 44:01.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: Got it.
[44:01.170 --> 44:01.450]  [SPEAKER_11]: Okay.
[44:01.770 --> 44:02.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right.
[44:02.030 --> 44:05.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't know if your daughter owes you money, but it's something to consider.
[44:05.610 --> 44:06.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks for that call.
[44:07.190 --> 44:07.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Let's go to this call.
[44:07.990 --> 44:08.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[44:08.290 --> 44:08.750]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[44:09.430 --> 44:09.930]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes, sir.
[44:10.010 --> 44:10.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: Good evening, everyone.
[44:11.590 --> 44:14.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: You were talking about music, and...
[44:14.910 --> 44:16.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'll bet another radio show is going to be mentioned.
[44:17.270 --> 44:22.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, when you've purchased it, then you will own it in the sense that you gave money.
[44:22.750 --> 44:34.910]  [SPEAKER_12]: Then if you make copies for your car, playing a tape in the car, or a tape in your bedroom, or you want to edit it and play with it, whatever, that's one thing.
[44:35.090 --> 44:37.790]  [SPEAKER_12]: But consider Emmanuel and your buddies there.
[44:38.070 --> 44:44.730]  [SPEAKER_12]: Supposing you wrote a song, supposing you wrote the melody, and you wrote the lyrics, and so on.
[44:45.050 --> 44:46.550]  [SPEAKER_12]: You understand what I'm talking about?
[44:46.770 --> 44:47.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, yes.
[44:47.230 --> 44:49.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: I understand the concept of writing a song.
[44:49.230 --> 44:49.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, yeah.
[44:49.750 --> 44:56.870]  [SPEAKER_12]: And supposing you did it, and perhaps that was your talent in life, you know, to write music.
[44:57.190 --> 44:58.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: You tried other things.
[44:58.990 --> 45:04.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: You found it difficult to work in various factories and various offices.
[45:04.310 --> 45:04.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[45:04.610 --> 45:05.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: But you had this talent.
[45:06.030 --> 45:07.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: But the music is what set me free.
[45:07.670 --> 45:07.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: And then you relied upon it.
[45:08.030 --> 45:09.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: Just let me finish for a fact.
[45:09.570 --> 45:18.970]  [SPEAKER_12]: Like, you relied upon at least having this talent to get a flow of money, cash flow, to you.
[45:19.470 --> 45:20.690]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, don't you think...
[45:20.690 --> 45:26.030]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, do you want to be accused of being a mass murderer of music people?
[45:26.270 --> 45:28.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: They have a right to a life.
[45:28.250 --> 45:34.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, okay, but can you prove to me that people hearing the music and playing it and sharing it is taking away from the sales in any way?
[45:34.930 --> 45:36.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, what is the evidence that...
[45:36.210 --> 45:36.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, come on.
[45:36.570 --> 45:38.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I mean, that's not a good argument.
[45:38.610 --> 45:40.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, you're going to have to come up with a better argument than that.
[45:41.190 --> 45:42.290]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, thanks a lot.
[45:42.410 --> 45:43.350]  [SPEAKER_12]: Now, let me ask you one other thing.
[45:43.350 --> 45:44.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, I want to pursue this.
[45:44.710 --> 45:50.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: I want to know where the evidence is that says that if someone's song becomes popular on the Internet that it's not going to sell.
[45:50.850 --> 45:51.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Where is that evidence?
[45:51.490 --> 45:53.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: The record companies say all kinds of things.
[45:53.290 --> 45:54.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: I need to go and buy it.
[45:55.090 --> 45:58.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's our records if I hear it on WBAI and tape it.
[45:58.670 --> 45:59.370]  [SPEAKER_08]: Many times.
[45:59.550 --> 46:06.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, when I was a kid, I taped music off the radio and I wound up buying those records because I like them because I listen to them on my tape recorder.
[46:06.270 --> 46:08.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, a lot of people have done that.
[46:08.390 --> 46:13.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm not saying everybody's going to do that, but certainly more people will do it if more people hear it.
[46:14.590 --> 46:15.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know?
[46:15.550 --> 46:16.450]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, come on.
[46:16.550 --> 46:17.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, okay, yeah.
[46:17.710 --> 46:23.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: You say a person hears it on WBAI but doesn't have a tape recorder so then goes to Tower and buys it.
[46:23.630 --> 46:32.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, so in other words, why don't you launch a campaign to, one, make proper testing of this so you put yourself...
[46:32.850 --> 46:34.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why is it up to me to make proper testing?
[46:34.290 --> 46:36.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm just, you know, one of the people interested in the music.
[46:36.270 --> 46:43.850]  [SPEAKER_12]: Because you are suggesting to innocent minds that they might as well do all kinds of what I consider deceitfulness is...
[46:43.850 --> 46:44.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: But how is that...
[46:44.890 --> 46:45.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why is that deceitful?
[46:45.950 --> 46:52.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the way the record companies operate and have operated for years, that's considered legitimate just because they have this stranglehold on the industry.
[46:52.590 --> 46:53.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you're not...
[46:53.690 --> 46:56.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: If you don't sign a contract with these people...
[46:56.150 --> 46:57.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, it sounds like, you know, organized crime.
[46:57.910 --> 46:59.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: You don't sign a contract with them.
[46:59.410 --> 47:00.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: You don't get airplay on the radio.
[47:00.850 --> 47:03.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: You don't get concert bookings, et cetera, et cetera.
[47:03.510 --> 47:08.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, a certain privileged group of people get things that other people never get.
[47:08.790 --> 47:11.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: And it's because the record companies have a stranglehold on distribution.
[47:12.170 --> 47:19.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: All of a sudden, there's a different way to distribute music, and the record companies are the ones that see their stranglehold possibly being in danger.
[47:19.650 --> 47:28.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: I see many independent artists, you know, small-time musicians that hope to make it big, supporting this way of getting their music out because it's the only way to get their music out.
[47:29.610 --> 47:30.530]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, I see.
[47:30.670 --> 47:32.230]  [SPEAKER_12]: Okay, you have a point there.
[47:32.430 --> 47:34.670]  [SPEAKER_12]: But I'll ask you one other question.
[47:34.810 --> 47:37.010]  [SPEAKER_12]: How much does it cost in terms of...
[47:37.010 --> 47:39.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hang on, I'm just savoring that compliment from you.
[47:39.410 --> 47:42.090]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, I mean, you have a point.
[47:42.330 --> 48:07.830]  [SPEAKER_12]: I mean, but the truth of the matter is there should be some kind of a way, since many people can buy for $50, a good little portable tape recorder and tape this song and that one and so on and actually avoid purchasing a $15 worth of a CD.
[48:08.110 --> 48:11.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, how much of that $15 makes it back to the person that actually wrote that song?
[48:12.490 --> 48:13.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Check into that.
[48:13.610 --> 48:15.710]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, but you see, now here's the question.
[48:15.990 --> 48:45.890]  [SPEAKER_12]: Assuming that you're right, what are we doing to change things so that there isn't some rich guy who's drinking and drinking and drinking in the Florida veranda and gambling and living a disreputable life and he's the one who gets all the money or she's the one who gets all the money from record companies or from sales of records.
[48:46.230 --> 48:47.590]  [SPEAKER_12]: Let me ask you a different question.
[48:47.690 --> 48:50.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, no, I'd like to take that one because we have to move on but how do you prevent that?
[48:51.070 --> 48:57.230]  [SPEAKER_08]: You try something different and you keep experimenting and trying and finding things that work and I think stifling the technology is not the way to do that.
[48:57.870 --> 49:00.610]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're on the verge of some very interesting discoveries.
[49:00.970 --> 49:02.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: The market is changing.
[49:02.590 --> 49:09.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: I say we see where it takes us and we learn from that and, you know, if we have to set things up in a different way, we do that.
[49:09.490 --> 49:14.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's clear that technology, I mean, they keep coming up with these different kinds of CDs that prevent copying.
[49:15.330 --> 49:16.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's never going to work.
[49:17.010 --> 49:19.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: There are always going to be people who figure out ways to copy music.
[49:19.490 --> 49:20.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's a given.
[49:20.870 --> 49:25.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're not going to stop it and as long as you have a way to communicate with lots of people, that's not going to stop either.
[49:25.630 --> 49:30.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, with that in mind, I'm sure there's many ways to still make a fortune if you're in the music business.
[49:31.270 --> 49:33.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, but fighting it, fighting it's just a big waste of time.
[49:34.070 --> 49:35.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, thanks for that call, Monroe.
[49:36.330 --> 49:37.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he said, I had a point.
[49:37.630 --> 49:39.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't think he's ever said it to anybody in this radio station before.
[49:39.710 --> 49:40.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he didn't mention another radio show.
[49:41.090 --> 49:41.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: No.
[49:41.310 --> 49:41.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's also a first.
[49:42.170 --> 49:42.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is a first.
[49:42.630 --> 49:52.670]  [SPEAKER_03]: The Electronic Frontier Foundation, our friends, have a petition on their website to Congress to encourage them to explore alternatives to the current copyright regime.
[49:52.970 --> 49:55.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Their original goal was 10,000 signatures.
[49:55.410 --> 49:56.510]  [SPEAKER_03]: They got that, like, overnight.
[49:57.010 --> 50:00.450]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, their new goal is 100,000 and they're making pretty steady progress.
[50:00.450 --> 50:06.330]  [SPEAKER_03]: So, if people are interested, their website, as always, is EFF.org and send them money while you're at it.
[50:06.570 --> 50:10.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: As long as you have something that's worthwhile, people are going to buy it.
[50:10.690 --> 50:13.590]  [SPEAKER_08]: But they're not going to buy it if it's, you know, five times what it should cost.
[50:13.790 --> 50:19.270]  [SPEAKER_08]: They're not going to buy it if they're treated disrespectfully by the people that sell it to them, et cetera.
[50:19.430 --> 50:24.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, when I was traveling overseas, yeah, I noticed a lot of people were listening to music that they hadn't bought.
[50:24.290 --> 50:26.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, they had burned it to CD themselves from something else.
[50:27.450 --> 50:28.070]  [SPEAKER_08]: But you know what?
[50:28.070 --> 50:28.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: They bought those CDs.
[50:29.250 --> 50:31.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: They bought those, you know, those burners.
[50:31.210 --> 50:31.670]  [SPEAKER_08]: They bought things.
[50:31.830 --> 50:33.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: They bought different things as a result.
[50:34.030 --> 50:40.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: People are spending money in different ways and you have to figure out how to make that benefit whatever it is that you're doing.
[50:40.850 --> 50:46.850]  [SPEAKER_08]: And also, would these people have gone out and bought vastly expensive CDs if they hadn't had this equipment?
[50:46.950 --> 50:47.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Probably not.
[50:47.430 --> 50:50.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: They probably just wouldn't be listening to the music at all or listening to very bad copies.
[50:51.470 --> 50:52.250]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, let's take another phone call.
[50:52.310 --> 50:52.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[50:52.790 --> 50:53.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[50:54.590 --> 50:56.310]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is Rebel with a word on nine...
[50:56.310 --> 50:57.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, no, that's the only word you're going to get.
[50:57.910 --> 50:58.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[50:58.450 --> 50:58.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[50:59.030 --> 50:59.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: That took him a long time today.
[51:00.530 --> 51:00.790]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hang on.
[51:01.390 --> 51:01.890]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[51:01.990 --> 51:02.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: You're on the air.
[51:03.310 --> 51:03.630]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello.
[51:03.950 --> 51:04.270]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello?
[51:04.570 --> 51:05.010]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes, go ahead.
[51:05.490 --> 51:05.810]  [SPEAKER_13]: Hello.
[51:06.190 --> 51:07.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: You probably know me from way back.
[51:07.790 --> 51:08.790]  [SPEAKER_13]: The Pie Man.
[51:09.410 --> 51:10.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's Pie Man.
[51:10.230 --> 51:10.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Pie Man.
[51:11.170 --> 51:11.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: What?
[51:11.750 --> 51:12.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: The Pie Man.
[51:12.570 --> 51:12.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[51:13.050 --> 51:14.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Because there's been lots of imitations.
[51:14.730 --> 51:14.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes.
[51:15.390 --> 51:19.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: Well, I know especially the one who got, you know, Natan Sharansky.
[51:19.550 --> 51:21.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yes, it's Aaron Kaye, The Pie Man.
[51:21.350 --> 51:23.330]  [SPEAKER_08]: Pie Man, can you tell us who you have pieed?
[51:23.570 --> 51:24.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Sure.
[51:24.670 --> 51:28.110]  [SPEAKER_13]: Phyllis Schlafly, the late center Moynihan, the late A.
[51:28.230 --> 51:29.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: Bean, G.
[51:29.410 --> 51:34.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Gordon Liddy, Andy Warhol, Randall Terry, William Buckley.
[51:35.450 --> 51:35.890]  [SPEAKER_13]: Wow.
[51:36.290 --> 51:40.070]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, Jerky Brown, I call Jerry Brown Jerky Brown because he's trying to be a phony.
[51:41.250 --> 51:43.930]  [SPEAKER_13]: The late Edward Teller, you know, most of them are dying off.
[51:44.570 --> 51:45.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, well, you have to hurry.
[51:45.710 --> 51:47.810]  [SPEAKER_08]: You have to pie people while they're still around.
[51:47.930 --> 51:50.350]  [SPEAKER_13]: But in the meantime, there's 20 people who need it, you know?
[51:50.790 --> 51:53.910]  [SPEAKER_13]: Like, I know one of my imitators got Bill Gates.
[51:54.230 --> 51:56.010]  [SPEAKER_13]: He still could use more and more.
[51:56.290 --> 51:57.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: That was overseas, though.
[51:57.390 --> 51:58.110]  [SPEAKER_08]: It was a lot easier.
[51:58.390 --> 52:00.230]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, but wait until he comes back here.
[52:00.370 --> 52:02.250]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, maybe there's one store for him here and he comes back.
[52:02.410 --> 52:06.050]  [SPEAKER_08]: I think if there was a Pie campaign today, they'd be defined as terrorists.
[52:06.050 --> 52:07.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: If people weren't around pie people...
[52:07.450 --> 52:07.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's true.
[52:07.550 --> 52:07.830]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's true.
[52:07.930 --> 52:08.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: It would be, you know...
[52:08.850 --> 52:09.210]  [SPEAKER_13]: That's true.
[52:09.350 --> 52:11.950]  [SPEAKER_13]: I had told Asscroft to go crazy about it.
[52:12.250 --> 52:13.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, what brings you to call us tonight?
[52:14.050 --> 52:17.710]  [SPEAKER_13]: Anyway, I was listening to you and here's something I wanted to ask you.
[52:19.670 --> 52:24.610]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, I know about the heat that's on regarding downloading and MP3s and stuff.
[52:24.970 --> 52:30.590]  [SPEAKER_13]: What if you take the same songs, right, that you downloaded and convert them to real files?
[52:30.770 --> 52:32.730]  [SPEAKER_13]: There's still a little heat on that, too.
[52:32.930 --> 52:38.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I think any digital technology is what they're after whether it's Ogvorbis or MP3s or real audio?
[52:39.290 --> 52:46.030]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, because, you know, it makes us all paranoid to express ourselves that we like the music because we don't share the music.
[52:46.030 --> 52:47.150]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're not trying to sell it.
[52:47.230 --> 52:48.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: We're trying to share it.
[52:48.610 --> 53:00.750]  [SPEAKER_13]: But you've got these clowns and, you know, in the rock imperialist assholes of America, you know, who don't like the fact that music can be shared.
[53:00.850 --> 53:01.850]  [SPEAKER_13]: They just want to be greedy.
[53:02.030 --> 53:03.990]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, in the meantime, you're right about it.
[53:03.990 --> 53:06.430]  [SPEAKER_13]: The artists don't really see much of anything.
[53:06.610 --> 53:07.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: And you know what else is interesting?
[53:07.910 --> 53:10.710]  [SPEAKER_08]: The recording industry is complaining about how sales are down.
[53:10.810 --> 53:13.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: Do you know that they released less music in the last year?
[53:14.150 --> 53:15.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's something they don't mention.
[53:15.730 --> 53:16.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: They released less.
[53:16.350 --> 53:18.570]  [SPEAKER_13]: Of course there's less sales, if they released less music.
[53:19.210 --> 53:22.550]  [SPEAKER_13]: It's not that qualitative to listen to to begin with.
[53:22.770 --> 53:29.510]  [SPEAKER_13]: Anything that's really good, you're not going to hear it on Q104 or any of the clear stations.
[53:29.510 --> 53:34.330]  [SPEAKER_13]: You're not going to hear it on places like WBAI or WFMU or WNYU.
[53:34.450 --> 53:35.230]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're right.
[53:35.470 --> 53:38.050]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because anything that's decent is not going to make it.
[53:38.130 --> 53:44.310]  [SPEAKER_13]: Because what they want is that rockin' revolution that sparked off 1967 to happen.
[53:44.730 --> 53:49.470]  [SPEAKER_13]: They're not going to let anything of that that great get out to the mainstream at all.
[53:49.570 --> 53:54.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I would love to see something that great really get out totally independent of the record companies.
[53:54.230 --> 53:58.690]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I think that would be proof positive that things have changed.
[53:58.690 --> 53:59.970]  [SPEAKER_08]: We don't need them anymore.
[53:59.970 --> 54:01.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: We can do things in a different way.
[54:01.810 --> 54:04.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: And, you know, I would be happy if they would just separate the music.
[54:04.510 --> 54:17.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: If they would take the music that wants to go the old-fashioned way, maybe put it back onto vinyl, that's fine with me, and just have the digital music era be controlled by the musicians themselves and the people that buy their music.
[54:17.670 --> 54:18.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Pie Man, thanks so much for calling.
[54:19.150 --> 54:22.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: We're pretty much out of time, almost out of time, but it's good to hear from you.
[54:23.170 --> 54:25.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: And keep pieing people as long as you can.
[54:26.250 --> 54:39.550]  [SPEAKER_08]: Interesting thing, I was at a wedding this weekend, and one of the people there, who I'm sort of distantly related to, if you can believe this, is working for a major computer company with the recording industry of America.
[54:40.550 --> 54:40.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[54:41.370 --> 54:43.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: And he, you know, he was very proud of what he did.
[54:43.550 --> 54:46.570]  [SPEAKER_08]: He said, I'm protecting the rights of the recording industry.
[54:46.750 --> 54:52.630]  [SPEAKER_08]: And when he found out who I was, the first person to get sued under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, he turned white as a ghost.
[54:53.050 --> 54:58.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: But the interesting thing, and this was the question I was going to bring up to him, but it's kind of the wrong place to bring it up.
[54:58.950 --> 55:06.990]  [SPEAKER_08]: Turns out that this wedding I was at, and I'm not going to give away any details to, so I don't incriminate anybody, they played music at the wedding.
[55:06.990 --> 55:16.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay, I assume they paid the licensing fees to do that, but at every table were little CDs with copies of the music that they played.
[55:16.590 --> 55:25.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, it was a nice little mix of music that they took their vows to and all that kind of thing, but they gave out the music on CD, digital media afterwards to maybe a hundred people.
[55:26.830 --> 55:33.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: This guy was there, he saw it, he witnessed it, so I have to ask myself, boy, this kind of thing must go on all the time.
[55:33.910 --> 55:36.470]  [SPEAKER_08]: Figure how many weddings take place in this country every day?
[55:36.870 --> 55:43.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, multiply that, and that's where your recording industry revenue is going, because I guarantee you, people aren't buying those CDs.
[55:45.470 --> 55:47.150]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, no one has anything to say about that, do they?
[55:47.670 --> 55:48.030]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[55:48.350 --> 55:50.170]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's good you didn't open that can of worms there.
[55:50.350 --> 55:51.030]  [SPEAKER_08]: No, good, good.
[55:51.630 --> 55:54.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: All right, we're out of time, and the personal computer people are here.
[55:55.490 --> 56:03.650]  [SPEAKER_08]: So, we'll be back again next week with more on this, and anything else that comes up between now and then, something is bound to.
[56:04.750 --> 56:05.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Thanks, everybody, for calling in.
[56:05.990 --> 56:08.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:08.870 --> 56:09.930]  [SPEAKER_08]: We'll talk to you next week.
[56:10.010 --> 56:10.910]  [SPEAKER_08]: Stay tuned for the computer show.
[56:11.010 --> 56:11.210]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good night.
[56:38.440 --> 56:41.240]  [SPEAKER_10]: Good night.
[57:55.970 --> 57:58.730]  [SPEAKER_01]: Military recruiters have invaded our places of learning.
[57:58.970 --> 58:04.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: Last year, the Pentagon spent $2.4 billion to recruit 200,000 young people into their military.
[58:05.110 --> 58:11.730]  [SPEAKER_06]: On Tuesday, October 7th, the second anniversary of the bombing of Afghanistan, Not In Our Name calls on students to walk out of their schools.
[58:12.050 --> 58:18.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: Join youth across the nation to say no to Bush's plan to turn us into a generation of cannon fodder in his wars for empire.
[58:18.630 --> 58:21.350]  [SPEAKER_01]: In this time of heightened repression, we will not be silenced.
[58:21.570 --> 58:24.470]  [SPEAKER_01]: We believe another world is possible and we pledge to make it real.
[58:24.830 --> 58:28.050]  [SPEAKER_01]: Join us at Union Square at noon and in Times Square at 3.
[58:28.250 --> 58:35.310]  [SPEAKER_01]: Email nycyouth at notinourname.net or call 888-718-3167.
[58:35.310 --> 58:38.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: That's 888-718-3167.