No insurance company takes care of any patient, but what they do is you pay them a premium and
they decide what services you can receive for that. But about 25 cents out of every health
care dollar goes to profit and overhead. The Bush administration and Republican
congressional leaders remain adamantly opposed to allowing drug imports from Canada,
but governors from both parties are finding greater appeal in Blagojevich's efforts to
get the FDA to allow broader cross-border imports. Last week, Minnesota's Governor
Tom Pawlenty, a Republican, broke ranks with this party and announced that he would order a study on
the feasibility of drug imports from Canada. This is Christy Yovanas of Chicago Indy Media
for Free Speech Radio News. This is Free Speech Radio News. I'm Deepa Fernandes.
And it's four minutes after seven o'clock. That means it's four minutes late for Off the Hook
and we're going to be raising funds tonight to buy the news department a clock.
A biosphere. A complex, softly balanced life support system.
And a good evening to everybody. The program is Off the Hook. Emmanuel Goldstein here with you
on this Wednesday evening. And we're only kidding. We're not raising funds tonight. That's
going to happen in a few weeks, though. And we'll find a clock for the news department. We'll
have a little talk with them afterwards. We have all kinds of interesting things tonight. Bernie S
joins us on the telephone from Philadelphia, I believe. Yes. And I'm looking at a very accurate
clock here. You can get for ten or fifteen dollars, you can get one of your little
clocks that are synchronized to the National Bureau of Standards. It's like one minute per
million second error. I'll buy one of those for the news department. Would you do that,
please? Because, you know, here at the station, we just kind of forget about some of the most
obvious things. Right now, I'm looking at a computer. Well, I'm looking at a computer screen
and we have the keyboard. But for some reason, we don't have the computer for it. That's been
moved someplace else. And I think that's optional. See, that's the thing. It's not optional. You
need that part of it. You really do. We've been typing away and nothing shows up on the screen.
We can't do anything. It's beautiful, you know, nice screen here and everything, but we can't do
anything with it without that other part. So whoever has it, please bring it back. You know,
little things like that. We're so frenzied and caught up in what we're doing that we forget
sometimes the most obvious things. Jeff, welcome. Thank you. Good evening. What's what's new in your
neck of the woods? Life is good. Life is good. Work is good. Everything is everything is good.
Yeah. OK, well, I'm happy to hear you say that because I've been going crazy with work and life
and things like that. But no need getting into that already. I was complaining about that on
the other radio show. So but things are better if anybody is following. Things are definitely
you've done enough. You've done enough venting. Pretty much. Pretty much. I have to smash a few
things. Actually, you know, I might go over to the Ukraine. You hear about this? They're
smashing computers in the Ukraine. Yes, I'm not kidding about that. Actually,
I'm sorry, Jim, because they are Luddites or no, actually, according to this story from BBC,
over 300 self-confessed computer addicts have participated in a competition
in the central Ukrainian city with a really good name because it is easy to destroy their actually
Leo. You're from that area. Read that name. Read that city name and get it right.
Today, today, that's a pretty juicy. All right. Now, say it all at once.
OK, that city, that's where they had a competition to destroy their own hardware in a spectacular
fashion. The event was dubbed the first open computer destruction championship.
Now, take note, folks, I think this is something we could do here,
especially if Macintoshes are involved. Hey, hey, hey, easy. You want to talk about Macintoshes?
I'll go on for a whole hour about Macintoshes. I will. I'll go on with you. Oh, yeah. OK,
we can take it outside. We don't need to take it outside. We'll do it right here. All right.
You ever had a Mac that needs to be upgraded and he didn't do it or software? You didn't get the
latest version of the software. It's like having a drug habit. You have to keep pumping things into
it. Otherwise it slows down to a crawl and things like I haven't had problems with my Macs. I'm
sorry. I had Macs. I've had Macs for a very long time. Yes. What's the oldest Mac you're using
right now? So let's see the oldest one that I'm using right now. I actually can't. I have. No,
no. I have a I literally I found it at a garage sale. I don't mean one you can just turn on and
see a little smiling Mac. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, one that you can actually use to do something.
I'm I'm using one and teaching on it right now. It's a ninety six hundred three hundred. I found
it at a garage sale and because I have too many kids, I was able to create another workstation.
Can you run things like Final Cut and Quark Express on them? I run. I teach Photoshop and
we run Photoshop on it. It works wonderfully. You run anything else on it? Sure. Illustrator,
Flash. All right. Well, we'll talk about this later. All right. I've been going through hell
with Macintoshes. I just I don't want to relive it right now. Anyway, let's get back to the
computer smashing the competition comprised. Actually, it was organized by a local FM radio
station. See, we could do that with the professed aim of raising young people's awareness of the
dangers of spending too much time in front of a computer. The competition comprised three main
events, throwing a keyboard with a keyboard like a discus. Yeah. Throwing a keyboard,
kicking a computer mouse and the most popular, the creative destruction of computer monitors.
So the crowd, the crowd cheered as cars were used to run over system boxes. And ironically,
guess what the prizes were for the people who won the refuge? That's right. New computers
that apparently they can bring into the competition in years to come.
There's some good quotes from people in that story. Yes, there are. This person says he felt
liberated from computer addiction after he won the keyboard throwing event with a result of 40.2
meters. Wow. Just pretty far. Just recently. It's 132 feet for those of you stuck in the system
here. Just recently, I busted my monitor at home. I was so angry at it. Luckily, I didn't destroy the
keyboard so I could throw it here today. Another participant agreed computers could be cumbersome.
I am so sick of these computers. All we do is just sit and type on them. And now at last,
you can do something like throw them across the field. Another added, after sitting at the
keyboard all day, I needed revenue. But in a country with an average annual income of about
$700, a computer is still very much a luxury. Only some 4% of the Ukrainian population are known to
be active internet users, and half of those were breaking their machines that day.
So yeah, the first Open Computer Destruction Championship. 40 meters. Yeah, sounds like
something we could do. It's like the punt test and kick competition for a new generation.
That's right. That's right. We have updates on the Do Not Call Registry. I think we've all been
following this story. Boy, what a... I can't follow it. It's insane. The Do Not Register
Registry. Yeah, it's really something. I went over to the telemarketing section of that today
just to see what was on there. I want to be able to look at whatever the telemarketers get.
You know what I'm talking about? They get a list somehow. How do we get that list? How do we manage
to convince them that we're telemarketers so that we can actually see what the telemarketers see,
which I assume is a list of all those names or phone numbers of people that don't want to
be called? All that they have on there right now is basically a legal update saying on September
25th, 2003, the U.S. District Court for the District of Colorado, this is different from
what we reported last week, ruled that the National Do Not Call Registry provisions of
the Telemarketing Sales Rule, TSR, violate the First Amendment and prohibit the FTC from
implementing the registry. And the latest news, of course, is that the FCC is enforcing this.
It's amazing how fast Congress moves when they see potential voters getting angry at them if
they don't. Well, it was literally the day after we were on air that they came back and said,
no, we're going to make this work. And then another judge, like you just mentioned,
down in Colorado said, nope, against the First Amendment. And one day, the Senate and the House,
both passed, and it took a few days for George Bush to find a pen to sign it, but he did. And
of course, now it's still not clear if this thing is going to actually be legal. But here's the
thing. Yes, go ahead, Bernie. It just goes to show, there's about 50 million people registered
on this list. So that's the number they looked at. If 50 million people got up in arms about
something and made it known to the government, look how fast they'd react. Well, how do we get
50 million people to all get upset at the same thing? That's only like one out of six Americans,
right? Yeah, that's true. I don't think I get one out of six Americans to agree on anything.
But some people share phones. Yeah, that's true, too. That's true. Some people are infants.
It was also interesting, Mike had posted to the list about the judge that ruled against it was
actually on the list. Yeah, he was on the list. The official phone number of the judge who ruled
last week that the registry is unconstitutional, he was among the thousands already on the list.
And this story is being widely reported. The Boston Globe, in fact, reported the listing
in its Saturday editions and said that the judge did not return any of their messages asking,
I don't know what they were going to ask him. But here's my question. How did they find out
that he was on the list? No one's asking that question. You can actually look people up or look
up phone numbers. Remember what we were doing? We were playing with this a few months ago.
Just the way that you, you basically, if you know my name and you can find me in a phone book,
you can then check and see if someone's on that list. So he was one individual. So it's not really
hard to find him on the list. But I'm wondering, do people know that they can be looked up in this
manner? You know, they can. We told them. That's true. That could be our fault. So how do we get
the list? Well, I don't know, because if you go to the to the site, which is, I think, telemarketing
that that do not call dot gov, you don't get any information that's useful as far as how how to
sign on. What I what I did find out, though, was that telemarketers have to pay some kind of a fee
to contribute to this thing. I'm not sure what that fee is. If anybody knows, please email us.
O.T.H. at twenty six hundred dot com. Tell us basically establishment and maintenance of the
national do not call registry was to have been paid for with fees from telemarketers until pending
legal issues are resolved. It is premature for the FTC to address requests for refunds of fees.
So that's what's going on right now. The telemarketers are demanding refunds for
paying for this thing that doesn't exist, which is pretty funny.
That brings up an interesting question. Is the list copyrighted? First of all,
and if you're a telemarketer and I'm a telemarketer and you buy the list,
are all telemarketers required to pay this fee regardless? Or is it just to buy the list? And
if you buy the list, can you make a copy for me? I don't know. I don't know. Well, basically,
you know, I'd like to I'd like to become a telemarketer as of right now. I'd like to
become a telemarketer for myself. What do I have to do now? You know, to call somebody on the air
while we speak and try to market something to them. I need to know who I can call. So how do I
how do I how do I find out who I can call? It's got to be, you know, anybody can set themselves
up as a telemarketer. OK, I would think that to find out about this list, if you joined like the
industry association, they would have some subcommittee that would have all the rules,
even though the rules are temporarily suspended. And, you know, they would tell you where to call,
where to write to get this list. And the point is, you don't need to get this list. But if you
run afoul of it without having gotten it, or even if you run afoul of it, having gotten it,
you're in trouble, assuming that it goes into effect. I don't know, a couple of weeks ago,
you're swapping Sims in foreign countries. Now you want to be a telemarketer. I don't
know if I can talk to you. I just need to learn these things. OK, I just want to know how these
particular rules because then we can report on exactly what the security holes are,
because there's a massive amount of security holes in this system. It's just a test then.
For now. OK. For now. We'll see. OK, moving on. Everybody see the new Verizon bills? Aren't they
ugly as, I mean, and here's the thing. Every time they do this, they switch from a nice convenient
envelope to this big oversized thing that's very hard to handle. They always say in their little
newsletter, we have a new look. And then they blame it on us. We're pleased to bring you a
brand new look for Extra, which is their newsletter, as well as everything else. But
basically what they say is that they made the changes in the bill based on our feedback,
based on what we asked for. You know, it's always the same thing. And it's I don't know
if anybody else out there gets Verizon bills. Experiment. Yeah. If you're within the sound
of our voice, contact Verizon and tell them you like the old look. I think we can generate enough
support here to actually have larger numbers than whoever complained about the old bill.
And let's see if they go back or let's see if they even give you a response.
I don't even care, to be honest. I just think it's funny that they're always doing this and then
saying, well, you know, because you told us this is what you want. I don't remember ever
telling them anything. I want cheaper phone service. I've told them that and they didn't
do anything. Yeah. One thing they are doing, though, which I think is kind of funny. And
the hackers and phone freaks from the past will also think is pretty funny. This is from their
little extra newsletter. Do you need an address for your wedding or family reunion invitations?
Dial 411. But now you can ask for addresses, too. Recently, Verizon began offering 411 customer
name and address known as CNA service, a reverse directory assistance service that provides you
the name and address for any telephone number available from our directory assistance service.
The rate for a CNA call is the same as for a national directory assistance call. Years ago,
back in the early 80s. Do you remember the CNA numbers that would get distributed on the hacker
BBSs? Oh, yeah. Even before that. Even before that, of course. Before that, it was in C.A.P.
and other magazines. That's right. And people would call up. This was something that no one
had had the ability to do. They would call up. Sometimes they'd have to give a special password,
which, of course, every hacker knew. And then the operator would ask them what the phone number is
they wanted to get an address for. And it would it would work magically. It was something that we
weren't supposed to have access to. And now they're marketing it. Now they're even calling
it CNA service. But don't CNA service was for listed and unlisted numbers. Well, some of it
was. I know the one in Michigan was. I don't think the one in New York was. Yeah. And I think I can
remember that number, too, but I'm not going to say it. They they also have those phone books
in the library where you can do the lookups. Well, they have the Kohl's directories you're
talking about. Yeah, the some libraries had the Kohl's directories and you can look up things
that way. Only listed numbers, of course. No, that's not true. They don't get that information
from the phone company. They get that from from marketing firms. Like if you filled out a
warranty registration card or something, that's all shared information. So there are some unlisted
numbers in the directory. I've never been able to find one. I mean, I've looked because I always
assume that it was taken from the phone book. Not all of them, but some are. Never found my number
in there. Well, that's because you don't fill out your phone number on a warranty registration card.
That's right. OK, I have some pictures here. Our audience will be interested in that. Well,
on the other radio show, I've been showing pictures on the air, but I'm not going to do
that here. But I'm just going to show you guys the pictures. And Bernie, of course, you'll have to
you'll have my vivid imagination. But this comes from Philadelphia. You might have actually seen
this. These are pictures of a Homeland Security truck. Did you see this, Bernie? I saw the truck.
I told you on the air like a couple of months ago that I saw this truck here in Philadelphia.
Well, now we're seeing it here in the studio because we have pictures of it.
I actually stepped inside the truck and looked around. What? Did they let me step in? Did they
know you were doing that? I had I had, you know, business attire on and I stepped I knocked on
the door and there were no law enforcement officials in there. The company who who built
this thing for the Department of Homeland Security was in there showing it to conventioneers who were
there for a law enforcement conference. I guess they just assumed I was someone there at the
conference. So I asked the right questions and so forth. And actually, Terrence Shapeshifter,
he he took me off to this. He called me and he said, hey, you'll never guess what I just saw.
He took some great pictures of it, which I think he might have sent you. These are the ones we're
looking at right now. OK, well, then I went over and looked at this thing. It's quite amazing.
All the equipment they had in there, they had a high bandwidth satellite uplink and downlink
on the thing and large HDTV screens. And it looks like things that impressed me most was this
interoperability thing where different radios, different two way radio systems from law
enforcement agencies can all interface with each other. They even had a portable cell site.
So you could just park this thing where there's no cell phone service, hand out the cell phones
and everybody can talk to each other through the uplink and downlink. This thing is not a little
tiny truck. It's a big monstrosity. Oh, yeah. It's not quite as big as an 18 wheeler. No,
but it doesn't have an 18 wheel thing behind it. But it looks like it could pull one.
Yeah, it does, doesn't it? I don't know if you notice this, but it has blue and red lights up
on top, which could be used to pull somebody over if they felt like it. But I mean, this looks like
something out of a science fiction film. It's so big and huge and it's got so much material inside
it and antennas on top. You guys notice the one that's really the microwave thing that goes way
up in the air. Yeah. For those of you who are New Yorkers, it's a bit bigger than a large emergency
services unit truck for the police force. Oh, and look at this. Is this a license plate?
U.S. 1-3052 or is that U.S. J-3052? Can anybody read that? Anybody better eyesight than me?
The name on the side of the truck is Interlinks. Oh, Inferlinks. I-N-F-R-A-L-Y-N-X. You know
anything about these guys? Yes, that's the name of the company. And if you look that up on the
web, like through Google or something, you can find pictures of it to describe. Actually, there's
a lot of good information. They gave me some flyers. They're trying to sell this thing to other
states, this conference. So they gave me some nice flyers, which I actually have here. They're
not in front of me. But if you go to Inferlinks, it's I-N-F-R-A-L-Y-N-X, right? Let's type that
into the screen here. Yeah, the screen with no computer. Well, we're just going to a site. We
don't need a computer for that, do we? I guess we do. Well, now what's this thing? I don't know
if you can remember the logo, but on the right, is that supposed to be a Lynx going through the X?
It looks really bizarre. It's a dumb logo. And underneath, do you remember what it says
underneath, Bernie? Refresh my memory. Okay, I'll tell you then. In defense of the homeland.
That's right. That's what Inferlinks' motto is. Obviously, Horst Wessel is there. Unbelievable.
So this truck is, maybe we'll try and scan these and put them online. Do you guys in the studio
have any observations, things we might not have noticed about the truck? Well, there's a logo
that says United States Northern Command. Northern Command, yes. Also, this reminds me of
the NYPT Mobile Command Centers, which are located inside huge buses and have everything,
including the satellite uplink and stuff like that. But this thing could destroy one of those
easily. The buses are actually bigger than this. Yeah, but this thing looks like an armored truck.
Yeah, it does. It really does. One has to wonder, when does this truck get called into service?
Never. No, I mean, let's get into their minds for a second. Let's squeeze in real tight.
And at what point do they call in the big armored black truck for homeland security with all the
antennas and computers inside? When we go to condition red. When they get reports that pretzels
are about to attack the president. But where does it go? Where does this truck, and how many trucks
are there like this? Frito-Lays. Oh. They told me that there were two. The other one. They built
two of them, they told me, and they're building more soon. As soon as they got offers. Did they
tell you how much these things cost? The number $800,000 sticks in my mind, but I could be wrong
about that. That's a bargain. I did ask, would it cost fully equipped with all options? And
there was actually very good air conditioning in it, too, because they have all this equipment and
really overweight law enforcement officers inside. So you need to have good air conditioning.
Well, that's why the terrorists attack us, because they don't have air conditioning,
and that's what they want. Or they want us not to have it, right? It's our way of life,
and air conditioning defines our way of life better than anything I can think of.
Bernie, how many people did it take to, how many personnel did it need, did it require?
To operate? Well, there was nobody in it when he got there. I realize that, but as far as,
you need a driver, you need guys in the back. How many would it hold? How many would it work?
There was actually a conference room table inside the thing that I think had six seats around it,
and then there were two or three other seats in front of big racks of equipment. So I think you
could probably fit 10 people in the back. They'd be kind of shoulder to shoulder. You could fit
maybe eight or 10 people in the back, and then in the front there'd be a driver and a passenger.
But you wouldn't need that many people to operate all the equipment. It'd be highly unlikely you
would want to operate all the equipment at the same time, because there's different equipment
for different types of situations. You wouldn't always need a portable cell site where you'd hand
out a bunch of cell phones and then get this, get active, connect to the cellular network through
the satellite link. Bernie, what cellular network do they use? They can choose. They don't use a
cellular network there. What they do is they hand out cell phones that are connected to
a cell site that's inside the van, inside the truck, and that cell site is connected remotely
through the satellite uplink, downlink, to some other carrier somewhere that they choose.
It's not linked to anyone in particular, just whoever they want to, whatever carrier they want
to select. So they could pull this thing into New York where there might be no more cell phone
service after they got blown up, the cell phone sites or whatever, mobile telephone switching
office, suppose it was sabotaged, and they pulled this van in. You could be talking through Pactel
or some West Coast carrier, depending on who they're connected to through the satellite.
It already trumps my question. I was going to say, where would they have to go where
there wouldn't actually be any, what terrorist would attack a place without cell service, but
you already beat me to that. Well, that place in Pennsylvania where the plane supposedly crashed
or was shot down, there was no cell phone service there. So that's a situation where they would
probably bring it around. Okay, Leo, yes. The satellite dish here is named Swedish,
S-W-E-D-I-S-H. Really? Maybe the Swedes can sue about that. Also on the side of the van says HLS,
C2, ACTD, and the last- HLS is Homeland Security. What was the rest of it?
C2, ACTD, A-C-T-S and Tom, D-S and David. And on the inside, from the inside, it shows a bunch of
hardware and stuff, but it shows a couple of video monitors, and one of them shows the plane's
crashing into the World Trade Center. No, it doesn't. Let me see this. And to the right of it,
it says- Oh my God, it does show that. Yeah. That's horribly distasteful, isn't it? Did you
see that, Bernie, when you were in there? I'm sorry, Bernie, I turned you down. Oh, it's okay.
When I was in there, they didn't have anything on the screen. They were just sort of blank
screens. Well, this screen, it's an image. You see the other plane heading for the World Trade
Center. That's what's on their minds all the time, apparently. That's horrible. Do you see the other
image? The other image is some bald guy. No, no, to the right of it, I think, it's the Chicago
Collapse. I don't know what that is. The Chicago what? Collapse. Collapse of what? Is that what the
caption says? No, no, that's- Yeah, that's what it says on the side. The caption on the screen? Yeah.
The Chicago Collapse? On the right, I think. Maybe you can figure this out. Who's the bald
guy? I don't know that. All right. So, Bernie, they didn't have those on when you were in.
That's fascinating. No, they were turned off. Unbelievable. Some of the radio equipment was on.
They had a bunch of scanners in there tuned to the local law enforcement frequencies. That was
interesting. They had these patch panels where they could- Basically, they had two-way radios
from different law enforcement radio systems mounted in these racks, and they had these patch
panels. So, they could plug all these radios into this patch panel. It was a big matrix switch
so that different agencies that had radios that couldn't talk to each other could talk to each
other through this matrix that was on the truck. So, this truck would have helped.
This truck would have helped on September 11th with all the radio problems they were having in
the World Trade Center, but it seems kind of strange to come up with an armored truck like
this. I guess the intent is to go to the site of a terrorist attack and communicate with everybody.
There's a couple of interesting things that Leo missed. There's a workstation outside,
telephones, keyboards, and a television that apparently is showing CNN. I would guess that
they could pick up through satellites most television stations that broadcast, or networks
that broadcast through satellites, which could be useful in the event of major terrorism.
They have to get copyright clearance for that, though.
No, not if you're using it in these cases. The FCC, I'm sure there are all sorts of bylaws that
state that the government can use it for emergency purposes.
Not all the eyes and things like that.
What the monitors are essentially showing, it's basically a multimedia center. One of them is
showing, it says Direct TV, so that's satellite television. That's where the CNN is. The photo of
the planes crashing-
They're using Direct TV.
They're using Direct TV.
That's what it says on there. The photo of the planes crashing into, or the image, rather,
of the planes crashing into the World Trade Center is them showing off their DVD capabilities.
And the other image, it's a general, Major General Timothy Lohenberg. I don't know what
connection he has to them, but that's on the VCR, it says. And the other two, there are two
other monitors in this picture, and one's the front of the truck, and the other's the back of
the truck, so they can make sure that no terrorists are sneaking up on them.
Oh, really? Really? Interesting. What if the terrorist comes from the side?
Well, then they're in trouble, I assume.
There was a remote, I saw a remote camera on the top of the thing that they could steer around.
Whatever, I saw that. I really had my eye on the smart card that was plugged into their
TV receiver. I was really wondering what that card would let me watch, because there are channels on
the DirecTV system that consumers can't see. Yeah, I want to see those. There's like a Verizon
channel. And that card that was in that box that I had my fingers, or inches away from,
would probably let me see all kinds of secret channels.
And the second you plugged it into your DirecTV receiver, you see all kinds of people in front
of your door. Well, no, that's a passive system. They can't tell where you are.
That's true. That's true. But this is probably not a passive card. It's probably got all kinds
of homing devices on it. There's also a system on the outside of the truck under a little panel
that has another satellite TV image and a keyboard, some patch panel that I believe
there's a close-up of on another picture. I think it has different telephone and other connections.
But there's also an actual telephone just sitting on the side there.
Don't you wish this was television and you folks listening to the radio could see what we're seeing
right now? Because obviously, this is something that we're really fascinated by. And there's
all kinds of images there. Maybe we'll scan them. If we get enough email. I'm asking for trouble now.
If we get enough email to oth22.com saying, yes, please scan those and put them online,
maybe we'll- But if you just put the
info links into a search engine, you'll see pictures of it that way too.
But you won't see pictures of the bald guy in the World Trade Center being attacked, will you?
Probably not. Yeah. All right, Leo, you had one other observation.
Yeah. They're running Windows and this Internet Explorer is open. And I looked at it because it
looked very familiar. And I realized they're running the Access webcam, which is, I believe,
which they found a weakness in like last year, which if you put in- Basically,
you can access from the outside very easily, bypass all the passwords and just control it
remotely. So they- You're not suggesting anything, Leo.
Oh, no. I'm saying if they have this hooked up to the Internet and they didn't patch it up,
it'll be extremely funny because then you'll be able to see what they're seeing on their cameras.
I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just pointing that out.
Right. Okay. Well, that's something else too. And there's probably all kinds of details here
that we're missing. They're never going to listen to this truck again. But it'd be nice to know
where the truck is. And maybe we can get it to come to New York, maybe to the 2600 meeting this
Friday. That'd be kind of nice, wouldn't it? Beat the 2600 van.
If we could get the pictures up by then, I think it might show up.
I'd like to get a picture of the 2600 van next to the Homeland Security truck. I think that'd be a
match made in heaven. I think it's coming back to Philadelphia.
Well, where is it now? I don't know where it is now,
but there's an IACP, International Association of Chiefs of Police, conference in Philadelphia.
I think it's next month. I've got to look it up. But I wouldn't be surprised if they
brought the truck back for that. Well, okay. We'll keep an eye out for it.
If anyone sees the truck, please alert us because we'd like to get more pictures and
ask more questions. It's certainly interesting. And of course, we're paying for this, aren't we?
If it's $800,000, nearly a million bucks, we certainly all have a right to know just what
our money is going for. I wonder what would happen if you
tied a bunch of tin cans with a string on the end of the back of the bumper?
Well, I'm sure they do that for when someone in Homeland Security gets married.
Now, speaking of tracking devices and watching people, I don't know if you guys saw this story,
but this is kind of funny. Apparently, Coca-Cola is planning on using satellites to find people who
buy special cans of Coke. Yeah, I couldn't make this up. These are going to be winners, by the
way, in a giveaway that features Hummer H2 sport utility vehicles. The giant vehicles will be
presented in person using satellites to locate the recipients. And in a promotion tied to the
Summer Olympics, Coke's prize is likely to be $1 million in gold, again awarded on the spot.
Now, here's a question. How exactly are they going to track people? They're using something.
The plan is called Thrill Seeker. It's tied to the Rugby World Cup final scheduled for October and
November. And Thrill Seeker uses satellite tracking to locate winners. Their prizes are Peugeot cars
and $10,000. The oddity of Coke's promotion revolves around how winners will get their
prizes. The cans used will be equipped with global positioning system transponders.
In Canada, Coors uses a tracker bottle. They used this, actually, in Quebec in 2001 and 2002.
And the program spread like a virus to all of Canada last summer. That experience should
indicate the tracking system will work. Coke doesn't want a repeat of 1990. You guys remember
this with the magic can promotion? What happened with the magic can? It turned out to be a real
big mess. They put money in cans. Oh, right. And people swallowed it. And water to make it
the right weight. And it was like brackish water. It was awful. Yeah. And they got sued. And they
had to recall all the cans, including the ones without money. So basically, if they track the
can, it's possible that a dumpster somewhere could be the winner. Yeah, absolutely. Well,
there wouldn't be any Coke in the can. The can would have electronics inside instead of Coca-Cola.
Okay, so I would, if I was... Did they give you a free Coke, then? Well, wait a minute. Why do
they need the GPS? If you get a can of Coke that has electronics inside, you know you've won. You
don't need to be tracked down. Right? Yeah. Well, maybe they just want to know where you are,
I guess. Right. Because they want to award it in person, sort of like Publishers Clearinghouse and
film it. You become the commercial, in other words. What if you pull an OJ and start running
away? That would be interesting. What if you buy it in the middle of nowhere? What if you're a
shoplifter? Yeah, what if you're... Exactly. There's all kinds of possibilities. I think
they're going to keep the soda in there and just put a little GPS. That way, they can surprise you.
No, no. Listen, you got to be realistic. Inside this can, there's got to be a GPS receiver,
which won't work unless it's outside. It's got to be a battery, a pretty strong battery,
for it to run a while. And there's got to be an analog cellular transceiver in it,
because there's so many different cell phone networks. The only thing that's going to work
in the most areas is an AMPS protocol. Right. But Bernie, my question to you is,
would I not be able to go through the local supermarket and shake up every single can of
Coke until I find one that clicks instead of... has liquid inside it, because of all these
electronics? Won't I be able to find it that way? It's probably in a six pack or something,
so you wouldn't be able to just take it off the shelf. Oh, yes, I could. I could just simply
shake each can individually. You've never found all the six packs? Uh-huh.
He's talking about a 12 pack, too, in the cardboard. You don't know what's inside.
Well, then we know not to buy it in the machines. We know that we can't win that way. We have to
buy it in the cases. The other thing that I find interesting, I read another story this week. Do
you know how many gallons they sell in this country in one year of just Coca-Cola? It's
something really disgusting. I know that much. Three billion. Three billion gallons. Wow. That's
something. Enough for every man, woman, and child... well, half of every man, woman, and child
on the planet. That's just Coke. Pepsi's another two billion. Diet Coke's another billion. We spend
$63 billion just on soft drinks. Well, it's a good thing all those people aren't drinking water,
though. Otherwise, we'd have real problems. All right, let's move on. We're going to take
some phone calls. 212-209-2900. I'd like to read a letter, actually, that we just got at the station,
which I think it's important to address some of these issues. During the mini-marathon early in
the summer, I made up for the telephone breakdown during the real marathon. I dutifully pledged $25
for an off-the-hook t-shirt that you offered on the show. I then mailed in my check. Actually,
this doesn't make any sense, because we weren't on then. During that mini-marathon, we were
preempted. So I think this person's referring to the real marathon when we offered those.
We're the only show that offers the off-the-hook t-shirts. If someone else was offering them,
they shouldn't have. Let us know if they did. Anyway, after waiting about six or eight weeks,
I called the premium department and BAI at WBAI, which directed me to you. I wrote you over a month
ago. Actually, I don't think I saw that. Stating the same facts, requesting my t-shirt. To date,
I have not received it nor a response, probably because I didn't see the letter. I expect
treatment like this from a faceless bureaucracy or transnational polluting corporation.
But I hope that the People's Radio Station would go the extra mile to see to it that its supporters,
long-term, in my case, are taken care of. Of course, I will continue to support BAI in the
future. If you would please take care of my missing off-the-hook t-shirt, I shall do so
while wearing it. Thank you. Although I feel sort of taken for granted and slightly ill-treated,
I still enjoy your show. Well, I apologize for the way this person's been treated. I did not
see a letter. If it was sent email, I might have seen it. But I didn't see a letter that was sent
here. But if anyone has... We've gotten a few complaints about this. The way it works is,
we offer the shirts, and BAI tells us the names and addresses of the people to send them to.
Sometimes, we don't get the names and addresses of the people to send them to,
and then we have a problem because we have no way of knowing who's supposed to get shirts and who
isn't supposed to get shirts. Sometimes people email us and say, where's my shirt? And we don't
know who they are. If you're one of those people, please, all you have to do is provide us some
kind of evidence and proof that you, in fact, did pledge. A canceled check, I guess we'll do,
or something on a credit card statement. Not your whole credit card statement,
because we don't want to see your numbers. But something to prove that you actually did pledge
that amount to the station. Then we can help out in that way. You can call us at 631-751-2600,
extension zero, and speak to a cheerful representative there, who hopefully will
get to the bottom of whatever problem. But nobody should not be getting what they
pledged for. And I just want to say that on the record. And if that's happening,
it's because of a big snafu as far as communication, which is one of the biggest
problems here at the radio station. So nothing evil going on, just a bit incompetent, that's all.
So again, 631-751-2600, extension zero, or write to us, oth at 2600.com.
Okay. We should take phone calls, 631-6, wrong phone number, 212-209-2900. Yes.
Where should I start? Pick a number, Jeff. Let's do this one.
You want to press it yourself? Sure, why not?
Okay. Good evening. You're on the air.
Oh my God, I got through. Wow.
It's always so difficult to get through to your show.
That's because certain people, who we won't name, tie up all the phone lines and try to
get all the attention. I got lucky.
Yes. So what's on your mind? I love the show and listen to it quite frequently.
I wanted to know if you guys heard about this thing that I heard about. A couple of weeks
ago approximately, Free Speech Radio News did a report on this new kind of electronic tracking
system or chip that is very, very tiny. There's a company in Massachusetts, which I forgot the
name of, who's developing this. Consumer product companies want to put it in consumer products,
they say, allegedly, to track them in shipping through shipping processes to see where their
goods are when they ship them around. But they don't want to tell anyone that it's
in there and it's active all the time and it transmits via radio and it's very, very tiny.
And they said they can put it in anything, including shoes and clothing and so forth,
and it can be used to locate exactly the product at any time.
Now, Bernie, you know what this is called, right?
It's called an RFID chip, and it doesn't have the ability to transmit a signal on its own
because there's no battery in it, really. It's a sort of a passive reflector,
kind of like if you pay for a parking...
They send out something that finds where it is.
Well, yeah, but it has to be really close, like within 10 feet or something. You have to be that
close to being pinged by this thing. It's like when you go to a parking garage and you pay a
monthly fee and they give you a card and you hold it up and it goes ping.
10 feet? Are you sure?
10 or 20 feet. It's got to be close.
They said they're going to use it to track where products are while being shipped.
Yes, because they have sensors throughout the factory and at the stores that will ping these
devices. I mean, if this is in your house, you're not going to know where you are,
because there's not a sensor that's right outside your front door.
There's not now, but there might be. The thing that scared me is they also said,
the developers at the place in Massachusetts, that they can put it in your body.
This can be placed in your body anywhere under the skin,
and there is speculation that this might be used in the future when babies are born.
Everyone who's born gets one put in them.
You can do this with pets now. For years now, there's a company that you can pay them a fee
and your veterinarian will implant this little chip in your dog or cat, and if it runs away,
it can be scanned if it's picked up at a pound. A lot of pounds now have these scanners.
They're already doing it.
Yes, they're doing that now with animals.
What's it called again?
Well, the generic name is called RFID. If you just do a web search for RFID chips,
you'll find tons of information on it.
How does it work? By radio or what?
Well, yes, it works just like any kind of access card. Not the kind you swipe,
but the kind of proximity card. You just hold it up to a thing and a radio signal is constantly
being sent out from a panel that pings some passive electronics that's in the chip,
and then the chip pings back its unique RFID number, like a serial number.
Can it also be used to identify who has a certain product?
Like suppose you buy something on your credit card.
Yes.
This thing, it becomes then tied to you.
Well, if you were in a store, say you bought a sweater and there was an RFID chip in the
sweater and the store was so equipped, it could record the serial number of the chip in your
sweater and associate that with your name and credit card number.
Scary, isn't it?
Well, sort of. I mean, they're not using it to track people. They're using it to track
inventory and all that other stuff. But yes, it does have an insidious application.
This is a step towards scary. I don't think it's scary in and of itself. But like, for instance,
you could have, say, on a street corner, you could put one of these little, if I understand
it correctly, you can put one of these little sensors and say, gee whiz, 45 people wearing
Levi's jeans walked by this afternoon, right?
You could tell who they were if you had access to the database that showed
who purchased these and when.
Yeah, I'm not even saying have access to who they are, but just the fact that that many
people walk by wearing this particular product, it's kind of creepy.
If you knew that these serial numbers that you were picking up,
and you could hide these sensors anywhere, like you said,
as small as the period of a sentence.
It's like easy pass for people.
It could be like passive market research, essentially. But actually, I remember either
a year or two ago reading about somebody who had put some sort of RFID chip, you know,
he knew about it, obviously, but put it under his arm.
And they'd had this thing where he'd go from room to room in this test area,
and each room would suit to his own personal liking.
So like his computer would bring up what he was working on and so on in the different rooms.
And it was sort of like a way to customize the room to that person when they walked in.
So if I, say, went into an elevator, it would stop playing the music and start playing,
you know, like...
What you liked.
That could be an application.
Which I'm not going to reveal what it is, but that'd be kind of cool, you know.
But no, obviously, there's evil things that could be used here too.
It's very privacy invasive.
I think what's more likely to go along the lines of what Emmanuel just said,
it would be cool if we could do, this is going to happen with cell phones.
Very soon, cell phones will be required by federal law
to have location technology built into them, either through GPS
or through triangulation from the cell sites.
It's all part of the whole E911 infrastructure that's required by federal law.
They've got to have it by, I think, next year in all handsets.
So all new handsets.
So these cell phone companies, cell carriers, brand, you know, Verizon, Nextel,
all these companies, they will have in their database who is where at what time.
And that's all in there.
It's always tied into emergency and terrorism and things like that.
So it's not like you have a choice.
I'm going to hang up and listen, but I'd like you guys to keep your eye on this
because I see potentially very serious implications for this.
And I'll rely on your vigilance to keep track of it.
I knew you would all know about it.
So I'm glad I got through to ask you about it.
Thank you.
Thanks for the call.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.
I'm actually looking into having RFID chips in the next HOPE conference badges.
If we can do it very cheaply, it might be a fun thing to play with
to see how many people pass the entrance and so forth.
Oh my goodness.
We can track people and find them.
I'm looking into this.
Go ahead.
It'll help us find you, Bernie, as you're always hard to find at these things.
Yes.
Leo.
Very true.
I remember about five or six years ago, I'll bring in more information next week.
Some artist guy became the first person to be implanted with the chip.
A few years back, a whole family in Europe got implanted with the chips.
They were volunteering to be pioneers of the new technology.
What happened?
Whatever became of them.
Oh, that's the last I've heard of them.
I heard about a family in Florida having this done recently,
but I was just thinking that this could be useful.
Say you have a roadhouse, a bar, a concert venue, a department store,
where people may hide in when you close and rob you blind afterwards.
You could, even if you don't necessarily put people's RFIDs to their names and addresses,
if you get, you know, 500 people coming in, wearing a shirt,
or a jacket with RFID in it, and you have $4.99 going out,
you notice that somebody has remained behind.
You're talking about doing it with a wristband or something too.
Yeah, you could do it with a wristband too,
keep people out of backstage areas where they shouldn't be.
Also, it could be used to tie, I mean, say someone did rob or steal something from a store.
People sometimes walk out with things.
It could be tied, it could help prevent shoplifting in terms of,
you know, there's a unique serial number for each piece of equipment.
There's a unique serial number for each piece of clothing.
If they know what numbers have not been purchased,
then they know that that's stolen material.
There are a bunch of useful applications for this.
Then at the same time, there could also be an insidious side.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because I think you always have to look at that part of it,
like how could this be abused against people's personal privacy?
And I can think of a number of ways this could be used to really invade people's privacy.
For the insidious side.
If you're supposed to supplant the whole idea of barcodes,
universal product code things, this is the next step after barcodes.
We had some 2600 staff, we had some fun with the UPC codes, barcodes on things years ago.
And maybe we can have some fun with this when it starts getting rolled out.
On the subject of 2600, imagine having these things on copies of the magazine
and people, say, walking in a mall.
Well, that person has a copy of 2600.
Keep an eye on him.
You know, that kind of thing could happen.
For insight into the danger of this,
I suggest the movie Impostor with Gary Sinise, Madeleine Stowe.
It came out a few years ago.
It's science fiction, but ignore that.
Pay attention to the tracking of people.
One question, though, for these RFIDs, when they're put in products, say clothing,
is it a unique number for each piece of clothing?
Or is it one, like with UPCs, everything has the same number?
Each chip will have its own unique ID number.
Okay, that scares me.
That really does.
And what was the name of that other movie?
What was the name of that other movie?
They used badges when you went from room to room to change the pictures on the painting.
I'm sorry, I can't remember.
I need a better description than just that, you know.
Well, it had a Bill Gates-type character in it.
Okay, if anybody knows what film Jeff is talking about, please let us know.
Was it Antitrust?
There's a good chance.
Antitrust.
Hey, that's pretty good.
Thank you, thank you.
I knew we'd know it.
Well, Bill Gates-type characters.
There's only one movie like that.
Well, there's the documentary about Bill Gates, you know, and all that.
Yeah, that one.
There's a good chance you could disable one of these chips
by putting the magazine or the sweater, whatever it is,
in a microwave oven for about three seconds.
Uh-huh.
But are you allowed to do that, Bernie?
Or is that somehow tampering with something?
You're not supposed to tamper with it.
Product tampering.
There you go.
But you own the product.
I mean, you know, is this going to be illegal to do?
I don't know.
You own the product, not the chip.
You own the product, not the chip.
Well, wow.
How about that?
Perhaps a HEERF gun might take it out.
I mean, being as a distressing kind of thing.
I have a feeling this is going to be a hot topic for quite some time.
Let's take another phone call.
That's a good choice, Jeff.
Let's see if we can keep it up.
Hello, you're on the air.
Hello?
Yes, go ahead.
Yes, I recently lost my dog in Midtown.
When I went to pick it up, it turns out that Giuliani had passed a law that
the only way you get your dog back is if they place one of these chips on his shoulder.
And if they neuter him, yeah.
Wow, I didn't know that.
Yes, so my dog has a chip.
And if he gets lost, they wave a wand and all the information comes up.
They did this without even consulting you?
Well, if you don't do it, they put him to sleep.
Oh, wait a minute.
That seems a bit harsh.
I mean, I can understand the logic behind it.
But to say, we're going to kill your dog unless you let us put this in him, that's...
That's the law.
And they have to neuter him too.
Do you have this on paper anywhere?
Because that would be a great letter just to say...
Well, you can go over to 110th Street between First and Second Avenue.
They have a shelter there and they'll explain it all to you.
Well, I'm glad you got your dog back.
What did you have to pay to have the chip implanted in your dog?
Like $98 or something.
Okay.
Wow.
Wow.
I've got...
Either that or let him die and I couldn't do it.
Right.
I've got to hope that I don't get lost because I don't want to be neutered.
This seems like a civil liberties issue.
I mean, that's how...
Well, we are talking about animals here.
But I mean, the same thing could be eventually done to people on various levels.
And I'm sure it will be.
Can you see this chip?
Can you see where this chip is on your dog?
No, it's in his shoulder blade.
Did you actually...
Did you get a chance to watch the veterinary implant it in your dog?
No.
They tell you when to come back and get him.
Oh, okay.
Right.
Interesting.
It's kind of like they took some hair off his skin where they had to insert it, I guess.
Well, they open up his skin and just slip it in there or something.
Bernie, we can go up to the pound and we can see how they do it, all right?
I think we should do that.
The thing is, this is kind of scary that they actually are doing things like this.
How many people think that the American public would support, say,
having violent people who are getting out of prison, having these chips put in their shoulders
so that we know where they are at all times?
That was my point.
The first people that this is going to be mandated for are criminals.
And then they'll point out how useful it is for criminals.
Can you really see people saying, oh, no, that's a bad idea?
Of course, they're going to embrace this.
And then, of course, it'll be for little kids so that they don't get lost
and abducted by these same criminals that don't have the chips in them yet.
I'm pretty sure most of the people in Guantanamo,
the people that are on the terrorists or so-called al-Qaeda,
they probably have all types of chips in them now.
Who knows what they're doing to the people down there, really?
I don't think they really need chips to not lose the people in Guantanamo.
They're in these little tiny cells.
Yeah, but still, they might be...
Eventually, they'll be released so they can track them.
That's possible.
But if they are released, who knows what they're going to be doing to them?
When you have no accountability, anything could be happening.
Thanks for your call.
We're going to move on to another one.
212-209-2900, go ahead.
Hello, you're on the air.
Yeah, Bernie asked.
The chip is actually called...
A synonym is called a rice chip.
And it's like a little piece of rice.
And they just stick it under the neck of the dog.
I got a dog from Guiding Eyes.
And all the dogs there have these little rice chips.
And the scanner looks like when you go to the supermarket,
and the guy got a bag,
and they got to reach over with that scanner that reads the barcode.
The same kind of scanner that reads the little rice chip.
It comes up with a number, and they go into the database,
identify the number, cross-reference it to whoever's registered.
That's the way it works.
Wow.
Thanks.
Okay, take care.
It's more common than I thought.
Oh, very, very common.
Almost every police station, dog shelter, veterinarians have them.
And it's just like a little scanner.
Okay, thanks for the info.
See you later.
And Jeff, I have to say, you've picked three calls,
and three of them have been good calls so far.
Do you really want to keep this up,
or do you want to quit while you're ahead?
Have we got time?
Before we do, though, I should point out,
I handed out a lot of pictures.
I only got two back.
What are you guys trying to pull here?
Leo, you have all the pictures?
All right, all right.
I want the pictures back, okay?
Maybe we'll put them on the website or something like that.
Maybe people have their own pictures of the Homeland Security...
What is it called, Bernie?
The Homeland Security van or camper or what?
It's bigger than a van.
It's a truck.
Yeah, but they must have a name for it.
They must have like a nickname for it.
It was the Infolinks.
Okay, well, that's not very imaginative.
But there was some really long acronym, too.
Look it up.
All right.
I'm taking another phone call.
Hello, you're on the air.
Yeah, I drove the Homeland Security.
I gave you the opportunity to quit.
I didn't want to quit.
It was a matter of...
You got greedy.
If you didn't say anything, I'd have done fine.
You got greedy.
I was trying to help you there.
All right, try again.
Hello, you're on the air.
Yeah, I drove the Homeland...
I think what you need to do is relinquish control.
Here, go ahead.
Relinquish control here because...
And I hope he's there.
It's like when you pitch a ball game, you know,
the relief pitcher has to come in because you've just gotten worn out.
Sorry, coach.
All right.
In a few days, you'll be ready again.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Good evening.
Just a thought on the chip going into people.
I guess if it goes in, someone could take it out, right?
So just wanted to put that in there.
I don't want to give any people...
Although it might be illegal to do so.
I see a whole array of, you know, black market clinics to remove chips.
It'll be like abortion clinics were back in the 60s, you know?
Yeah, or speakeasies.
Yeah.
I didn't want to put it out over the air, but I did want to...
I think it's important to say that, that if they can put it in, we can get it out.
That's right.
That's right.
Okay.
All right.
You know, these things will be working even after people die.
You realize that?
People will be buried in the ground.
And I guess we could use it to make sure that people stay buried in the ground.
Right.
Right?
They don't have to live in death situations or things like that.
Grave robbery becomes a crime of the past.
Or people coming back to life.
That's always a pain when that happens.
That's good, because all these horror movies won't happen,
because you'll know where the people are.
They won't sneak up on you, would they?
Okay.
Let's take one more call.
We're running a little bit over time because we started so late,
but let's take one more call, then we'll yield to the personal computer people,
who are welcome to come in the studio, by the way, if they're standing outside.
Yeah, I drove the whole way.
You pressed the button.
You weren't authorized to press the button.
It's like you came back into the game and started pitching.
Now, let me press the button.
There, see?
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Go ahead.
All right.
But you see, that was a different lunatic.
That doesn't count.
That doesn't count either.
Let's try this one.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes, good evening.
Listen, there's a company called ADX,
that basically makes a chip that you can put into a body that
checks your temperature and everything that we're using with the SARS situation.
You know what I'm talking about?
No idea.
A company called ADX, located in California.
They're part of a company called Digital Angel Corporation.
They make a chip and a device where they can read your body temperature from a distance.
And they were going to propose to put it into people in China and places like that.
So when they came in, they could see if they were elevated temperature.
And if they were, they would be quarantined.
OK, listen, thanks.
That's going to have to be the last word on that.
Bernie, thanks for another interesting discussion and everybody else for coming by.
Again, reminder, 2600 meetings this Friday all around the world.
Check www.2600.com slash meetings to see if there's one in your area.
And if you want to start one in your area, there's instructions there, too.
We'll be on again next week at the same time, hopefully on time this time.
If you want to write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
Stay tuned for The Personal Computer Show on WBAI New York.
Oh, oh, oh, I'm on the air.
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