Off The Hook - 2004-03-03

[00:00.000 --> 00:03.580]  [SPEAKER_13]: Some allowing Iraqi children to play with their automatic weapons.
[00:03.940 --> 00:11.940]  [SPEAKER_13]: The commanding officer, Lieutenant Frazee, says his troops found five Kalashnikovs, the self-defense limit set by American authorities.
[00:12.260 --> 00:18.280]  [SPEAKER_13]: Lieutenant Frazee says his troops will continue regularly searching the offices of all of Kirkuk's political parties.
[00:18.500 --> 00:22.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: He'll be searching the communists' office again within the next two months.
[00:22.700 --> 00:26.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: For Free Speech Radio News, I'm Aaron Glantz in Kirkuk, Iraq.
[00:27.280 --> 00:34.440]  [SPEAKER_12]: Free Speech Radio News is produced at Pacifica Station's KPFA in Berkeley, California, and WBAI in New York City.
[00:34.620 --> 00:35.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: I'm Jackson Allers.
[00:38.120 --> 00:43.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI in New York, where the time is 7 o'clock.
[00:43.420 --> 00:44.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: Time for Off the Hook.
[01:00.240 --> 01:11.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: We couldn't get much worse But if they could, they would From Diddley Bump But the best, expect the worst I hope that's understood From Diddley Bump
[02:29.690 --> 02:30.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: And a good evening to everybody.
[02:30.830 --> 02:31.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: The program is Off the Hook.
[02:31.850 --> 02:35.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
[02:36.330 --> 02:38.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're joined tonight by Jeff.
[02:38.630 --> 02:39.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hello.
[02:39.330 --> 02:39.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Mike.
[02:39.930 --> 02:40.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hi.
[02:40.550 --> 02:40.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: And Jim.
[02:41.370 --> 02:41.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Greetings.
[02:43.070 --> 02:45.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: And let's just get this right out.
[02:45.350 --> 02:48.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're not going to be talking about the Transit Authority today.
[02:48.590 --> 02:50.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're not going to be talking about subways and buses.
[02:50.610 --> 02:52.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: However, I did have one question, Jim.
[02:52.610 --> 02:52.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-oh.
[02:53.670 --> 02:54.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: I have a MetroCard, right?
[02:54.990 --> 02:55.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[02:56.890 --> 02:58.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: It says it's going to expire in May.
[02:58.950 --> 03:00.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I keep refilling this MetroCard.
[03:00.790 --> 03:04.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, is the system smart enough to tell me You need a new MetroCard?
[03:04.690 --> 03:06.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: Is it going to spit out a new MetroCard at some point?
[03:06.750 --> 03:11.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Or is it just going to keep putting $20 on my MetroCard And then one day tell me I can't use the money I put into it?
[03:11.330 --> 03:11.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: Both.
[03:11.810 --> 03:11.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Neither.
[03:12.490 --> 03:19.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: What's going to happen Is if you go to the automated vending machine Which I do.
[03:20.070 --> 03:20.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: I go there all the time.
[03:21.090 --> 03:21.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm glad.
[03:21.730 --> 03:22.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: My best friend.
[03:24.290 --> 03:24.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sadly true.
[03:26.290 --> 03:35.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you go there with one month or less to go Until your MetroCard expires It will say Your MetroCard is set to expire in less than one month.
[03:36.070 --> 03:38.050]  [SPEAKER_09]: Would you like to switch to a new MetroCard?
[03:38.110 --> 03:38.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: It will say that.
[03:38.630 --> 03:39.350]  [SPEAKER_09]: It will say that.
[03:39.450 --> 03:39.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: In print.
[03:40.210 --> 03:41.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, that's all I want to know.
[03:41.730 --> 03:43.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, because my MetroCard expires in late May.
[03:44.530 --> 03:46.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: So I was getting a little bit concerned.
[03:46.810 --> 03:48.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, it's getting a little worn out.
[03:49.350 --> 03:51.210]  [SPEAKER_17]: Chris, I do have one comment.
[03:51.210 --> 03:55.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: I left the show last week with a MetroCard that had $2 left on it.
[03:55.610 --> 03:56.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: And I swiped...
[03:56.390 --> 03:57.310]  [SPEAKER_17]: You weren't here last week.
[03:57.370 --> 03:57.690]  [SPEAKER_17]: I'm sorry.
[03:57.810 --> 03:58.570]  [SPEAKER_17]: The week before.
[03:58.710 --> 03:59.270]  [SPEAKER_17]: Nice try, Jeff.
[03:59.370 --> 04:00.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, well, I...
[04:00.290 --> 04:01.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're writing history there.
[04:01.250 --> 04:01.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[04:01.650 --> 04:02.490]  [SPEAKER_17]: And what happened?
[04:03.050 --> 04:04.210]  [SPEAKER_17]: I swiped my card.
[04:04.210 --> 04:05.530]  [SPEAKER_17]: It asked me to swipe it again.
[04:05.790 --> 04:06.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: I swiped it again.
[04:07.130 --> 04:09.950]  [SPEAKER_17]: It let me through and still had a balance of $2.
[04:10.390 --> 04:13.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: So I thought maybe I had a magic MetroCard.
[04:13.190 --> 04:15.770]  [SPEAKER_17]: But today when I used it, it gave me a zero balance.
[04:16.030 --> 04:16.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: A magic MetroCard.
[04:16.430 --> 04:18.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: So you probably had a free transfer you weren't aware of.
[04:18.570 --> 04:19.410]  [SPEAKER_17]: That's a possibility.
[04:19.410 --> 04:20.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: But why don't I get it each week then?
[04:21.130 --> 04:24.050]  [SPEAKER_17]: We sure have a strange way of not talking about the transit authority on the show.
[04:24.050 --> 04:24.350]  [SPEAKER_08]: Don't we?
[04:24.610 --> 04:25.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Don't we?
[04:25.210 --> 04:25.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[04:26.310 --> 04:28.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I think that's pretty much all I had to ask.
[04:28.450 --> 04:30.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Although, Jimmy, you had something you mentioned before about...
[04:30.530 --> 04:33.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's old subway cars running wild on the tracks.
[04:34.110 --> 04:34.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: What's going on?
[04:34.470 --> 04:34.850]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, no.
[04:34.910 --> 04:35.310]  [SPEAKER_09]: They're tame.
[04:35.770 --> 04:38.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's the 100th anniversary of the New York City subway.
[04:38.870 --> 04:54.570]  [SPEAKER_09]: And among other ways of celebrating, including commemorative MetroCards, they are taking old trains that they have in the transit museum and putting them on limited service, one or two trips a day, along various normal routes.
[04:54.730 --> 04:54.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: Hang on.
[04:54.870 --> 04:56.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: How old are these trains?
[04:57.390 --> 04:59.490]  [SPEAKER_09]: 50, 70 years, depending.
[04:59.970 --> 05:01.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Are these the ones with the cushioned seats?
[05:02.190 --> 05:04.170]  [SPEAKER_09]: These are the ones with the wicker seats.
[05:04.790 --> 05:07.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they're letting them run in the general populace.
[05:07.950 --> 05:08.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: And the open fans.
[05:08.850 --> 05:12.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's the tidbit, the bit about them that I like the most.
[05:13.250 --> 05:21.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: During the summer, you will have unprotected fans, which will be great for all you athletic juvenile delinquents.
[05:21.890 --> 05:23.430]  [SPEAKER_09]: You know, jump up in the air and get a haircut.
[05:23.430 --> 05:29.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't understand why are they letting the trains that should be in the museum out into the general public.
[05:29.670 --> 05:32.510]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it's a foolish idea as well, yes.
[05:33.370 --> 05:36.670]  [SPEAKER_17]: Are they publishing a schedule to let us know when and where they'll be running?
[05:36.670 --> 05:37.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.
[05:37.210 --> 05:40.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: I haven't done enough research to find that yet, but I'll try.
[05:40.610 --> 05:44.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you see a really old train going around, you're not hallucinating, apparently.
[05:44.590 --> 05:45.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's MTA policy now.
[05:46.650 --> 05:47.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, great.
[05:47.310 --> 05:47.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, that's it.
[05:47.910 --> 05:48.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[05:48.130 --> 05:49.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: No more talking about the MTA.
[05:50.990 --> 05:56.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: We are talking about the upcoming conference, the Fifth Hope, taking place July 9th through 11th.
[05:58.010 --> 06:02.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: And we're supposed to have our network guru, who may be running in.
[06:02.250 --> 06:05.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: I see somebody running in, but I don't think our network guru runs that fast.
[06:07.490 --> 06:08.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, you're not our network guru.
[06:08.770 --> 06:09.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[06:09.770 --> 06:16.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, anyway, hopefully he'll be here at some point throughout the hour to answer any questions we might have about the network.
[06:16.830 --> 06:20.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: But generally, it's traditional at the conferences.
[06:20.170 --> 06:22.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: This is our fifth conference, hence the name, the Fifth Hope.
[06:22.890 --> 06:25.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: We have a network to the outside world.
[06:25.570 --> 06:30.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: And basically, people can connect internally, externally, wireless, wired, you name it.
[06:31.350 --> 06:33.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: And what we're looking for now is bandwidth.
[06:33.650 --> 06:34.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Lots and lots and lots of bandwidth.
[06:34.910 --> 06:39.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: We have already, I think, the equivalent of two T1s, but we'd certainly like to have...
[06:40.490 --> 06:48.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, the people over in Europe and Germany and in Holland and places like that, they always get lots and lots and lots and lots of bandwidth, more than they could use.
[06:48.910 --> 06:52.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: A conference like HAL 2001 had extra bandwidth.
[06:52.330 --> 06:55.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: The Chaos Communications Congress has more bandwidth than you can throw a stick at.
[06:56.690 --> 06:58.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: How much bandwidth can you throw a stick at?
[06:58.590 --> 06:59.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: A lot, a lot.
[06:59.430 --> 07:00.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: The Chaos Camp, the same thing.
[07:00.890 --> 07:01.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was a gigabyte, right?
[07:01.910 --> 07:02.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: A gigabyte?
[07:02.670 --> 07:03.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think so.
[07:03.470 --> 07:03.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was a lot.
[07:03.850 --> 07:04.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was a lot.
[07:04.410 --> 07:08.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, now, I'm appealing to New Yorkers, Americans, you know, people who live here.
[07:09.510 --> 07:11.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Can we not do the same type of thing?
[07:11.370 --> 07:21.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Are there people out there that know how to get that kind of huge bandwidth to our conference, which takes place at the Hotel Pennsylvania in mid-July, July 9th through 11th?
[07:21.590 --> 07:30.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you have a way, if you know of a means of doing this, as a donation or something really, really, really cheap, please contact us.
[07:30.670 --> 07:33.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: You can email us, OTH at 2600.com.
[07:33.510 --> 07:34.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: We'd love to hear from you.
[07:34.630 --> 07:39.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're going to be having a networking meeting at the 2600 meeting this Friday in New York.
[07:39.690 --> 07:42.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's going to be taking place a couple of hours after the main meeting starts.
[07:42.750 --> 07:45.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: It'll be happening at 7 p.m., I believe, upstairs.
[07:46.370 --> 07:47.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: But just wander around.
[07:47.610 --> 07:49.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sure you'll find the network people.
[07:49.370 --> 07:57.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's if you want to be interested, if you want to be involved, rather, in the network to the outside world and the internal network at the 5th Hope in July.
[07:57.970 --> 07:59.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: We could use all the help we can get.
[07:59.790 --> 08:02.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: And as I said, we certainly could use lots and lots of bandwidth.
[08:03.170 --> 08:03.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, Jim.
[08:04.130 --> 08:16.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just to remind people who may suddenly have bandwidth and never have listened to the show before, the meeting this Friday will be at the Citigroup building, formerly the Citigroup building, Lexington Avenue and 53rd Street.
[08:17.110 --> 08:22.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: That's up from the 53rd Street station of the F train in the atrium.
[08:22.230 --> 08:22.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: Be there.
[08:23.290 --> 08:23.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[08:23.750 --> 08:25.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And Red Height has just joined us out of breath.
[08:25.910 --> 08:27.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: You didn't see our network person out there, did you?
[08:27.730 --> 08:28.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, I didn't.
[08:28.450 --> 08:28.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[08:28.770 --> 08:30.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, hopefully he'll be here within the hour.
[08:31.250 --> 08:35.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: But either way, we're having a meeting this Friday to talk about this and other concerns.
[08:35.850 --> 08:37.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: The rest of the conference is shaping up.
[08:37.130 --> 08:40.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: We should have the website up the next day or so, I'm told.
[08:41.010 --> 08:42.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that will have all kinds of information.
[08:42.310 --> 08:48.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: You'll be able to register, and if you want to be a speaker or take part in the panel, all the information on how to do that will be up there as well.
[08:48.830 --> 08:49.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's going to be great.
[08:49.450 --> 08:50.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's going to be a lot of fun.
[08:50.450 --> 08:57.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Our fifth conference, I remember the first one, talking about it on these very same radio waves in a different radio studio, but the spirit was the same.
[08:57.790 --> 08:58.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that was 1994.
[08:59.170 --> 09:01.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: We had another one in 1997, Beyond Hope.
[09:01.610 --> 09:05.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: 2000 was H2K, and of course, 2002, H2K2.
[09:05.770 --> 09:08.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: And no, this is not H2K4 like everybody thought it was going to be.
[09:08.470 --> 09:10.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: We always name them something unpredictable.
[09:11.770 --> 09:12.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[09:13.590 --> 09:18.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Anybody have any items of interest to share with the millions of people listening?
[09:19.270 --> 09:22.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I have all the items, but I was wondering if anybody had any personal anecdotes.
[09:22.490 --> 09:23.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: RedHackt, you have got something there.
[09:24.450 --> 09:26.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's just an article I printed up about...
[09:26.670 --> 09:27.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, I forgot to call Bernie.
[09:27.950 --> 09:28.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, my goodness.
[09:28.810 --> 09:30.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: While you're talking about that, I'm going to call Bernie.
[09:32.650 --> 09:38.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Basically, six years ago, the Congress passed this act called the Child Online Protection Act.
[09:38.610 --> 09:44.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's supposed to stop children from seeing porn, basically.
[09:44.830 --> 09:48.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's been shot down a couple times in court.
[09:48.210 --> 09:50.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: You know, it's been going through appeals and all that.
[09:50.650 --> 09:52.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's supposed to go to the Supreme Court now.
[09:52.870 --> 09:53.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Hello.
[09:53.410 --> 09:54.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hey, Bernie, I'm sorry.
[09:54.350 --> 09:56.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: We had a CD problem, and I was all captivated by that.
[09:56.890 --> 09:59.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: I totally flipped my mind, but you're on the air out.
[09:59.530 --> 10:01.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm definitely less captivating than a broken CD player.
[10:02.090 --> 10:03.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, you should have seen it.
[10:03.150 --> 10:03.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was something else.
[10:03.870 --> 10:05.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: But RedHackt is in the middle of the story now.
[10:05.450 --> 10:05.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: Continue.
[10:05.670 --> 10:05.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Go ahead.
[10:06.030 --> 10:06.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Go ahead to the story.
[10:07.370 --> 10:24.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: So, basically, the idea behind the act is that people who run porn websites are supposed to, you know, make it so that children can't access them, you know, through some sort of screening process, like a credit card number or an adult verification number,
[10:24.490 --> 10:24.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: whatever that means.
[10:24.830 --> 10:30.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Why don't we genetically alter their eyes so that they cannot view something that is rated, you know, TV MA or above?
[10:31.130 --> 10:31.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: Just an idea.
[10:33.110 --> 10:47.430]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, basically, the ACLU who's fighting it argues that, you know, you can't... you're going to end up violating the rights of adults, and this stuff should be free because it's the Internet, and the Internet is, you know, essentially a free medium.
[10:47.690 --> 10:48.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it's also international?
[10:48.910 --> 10:49.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's no way...
[10:49.270 --> 10:50.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, that's another thing.
[10:50.870 --> 10:59.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'd be curious if this were, you know, to be put into use, how would they keep international adult material from reaching the eyes of U.S.
[10:59.130 --> 10:59.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: children?
[10:59.590 --> 11:03.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: Could it be something like the Great Firewall of China, except for the U.S.?
[11:03.810 --> 11:04.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're moving in that direction.
[11:05.090 --> 11:06.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're moving in that direction, and I think the U.S.
[11:06.930 --> 11:08.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: might cut itself off in the rest of the world.
[11:08.450 --> 11:21.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: And so, basically, the ACLU is saying, well, if you really want to restrict it, parents can install filtering software, you know, something on the user end, so that you're not restricting what's on the Internet itself.
[11:23.050 --> 11:40.610]  [SPEAKER_10]: And family groups are saying, well, maybe there should be a safe Internet for... rather, sorry, the ACLU said this should be like a safe kids area where only kids have access to certain websites, and family groups are saying, well, the entire Internet should be safe and there should be an adult area.
[11:41.190 --> 11:42.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Great, it'll be just like network TV then.
[11:42.910 --> 11:46.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah, so that's how that's going.
[11:46.270 --> 11:47.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's supposed to go to the Supreme Court.
[11:47.770 --> 12:00.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: They've dealt with stuff like this before, but in 97, they struck down an act saying that it wasn't narrowly tailored enough, so it violated constitutional things and all that.
[12:00.810 --> 12:02.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: They just never give up, do they?
[12:03.510 --> 12:08.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Bernie, there have been a couple of developments as far as that goes down your way in recent years, haven't there?
[12:08.650 --> 12:19.690]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, that's the Constitution, what was it, the CDA, the Communications Agency Act, and the CDA-2, and then the COPA, they were all, I believe, heard here in Philadelphia.
[12:19.690 --> 12:26.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I've spoken with the ACLU lawyers involved in the case, and it seems like this is like the third incarnation.
[12:26.810 --> 12:31.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: The government has lost in federal court on this thing repeatedly.
[12:31.130 --> 12:35.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: They keep coming back with slightly different versions, hoping to win again.
[12:35.510 --> 12:37.450]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, this is actually about COPA.
[12:37.750 --> 12:41.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's been tossing around in the courts for however many years.
[12:41.850 --> 12:55.730]  [SPEAKER_07]: But COPA was sort of a reincarnation of the Communications Decency Act, and then when the government lost that to the ACLU, then there was the Communications Decency Act 2, which also the government lost against the ACLU.
[12:55.730 --> 12:59.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: And now they're coming out with this COPA thing, which was, what, a good three years ago, wasn't it?
[12:59.690 --> 13:00.490]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, six years ago.
[13:01.370 --> 13:01.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah.
[13:01.630 --> 13:01.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Wow.
[13:02.190 --> 13:02.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, the thing is...
[13:02.870 --> 13:03.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: It reminds me of the V-Chip.
[13:03.910 --> 13:04.430]  [SPEAKER_07]: You remember that thing?
[13:04.430 --> 13:04.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[13:04.990 --> 13:11.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they, you know, these things get defeated, and then they just come back with a different name, you know, the CAPS-2 thing, and, uh...
[13:11.230 --> 13:12.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Acronyms gone wild.
[13:12.610 --> 13:12.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[13:12.870 --> 13:13.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's what it is.
[13:13.490 --> 13:14.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's basically what it is.
[13:14.170 --> 13:18.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: But a lot of them now are, you know, nice words that you can, you know, patriot and...
[13:18.250 --> 13:18.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Patriot Act.
[13:18.790 --> 13:19.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: Patriot Act, yeah.
[13:19.110 --> 13:19.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: A very nice word.
[13:20.510 --> 13:26.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'd like to know, you know, of all the, all the presidential candidates, has anyone said that they're going to, uh, repeal the Patriot Act?
[13:26.810 --> 13:27.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Have they gone on record and said that?
[13:28.130 --> 13:28.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: Has anyone?
[13:30.110 --> 13:33.310]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, none of the ones who are publicly considered to be serious.
[13:33.590 --> 13:33.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[13:35.010 --> 13:36.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, that's something to, uh...
[13:36.430 --> 13:39.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think Justinic has probably said the most negative things about the Patriot Act.
[13:39.910 --> 13:40.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Mm-hmm.
[13:40.670 --> 13:42.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: And Dean, but they're both...
[13:42.470 --> 13:43.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, Dean's out of the running.
[13:43.830 --> 13:44.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, he won yesterday.
[13:45.090 --> 13:45.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: He won Vermont, though.
[13:45.930 --> 13:46.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: How about that?
[13:46.330 --> 13:46.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[13:46.930 --> 13:47.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Wow.
[13:47.050 --> 13:48.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Maybe that's the secret, to be out of the running.
[13:49.290 --> 13:50.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Also your home state, of course.
[13:51.290 --> 13:53.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, well, okay, the, uh, U.S.
[13:53.450 --> 13:54.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Master Terror Watch List.
[13:54.690 --> 13:55.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: You guys aware of this?
[13:55.810 --> 13:56.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Mm-hmm.
[13:56.290 --> 13:57.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, we're probably all on it.
[13:57.230 --> 13:58.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Probably all on it.
[13:58.570 --> 14:04.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Certainly, if, if WBAI can be considered a person, uh, then, uh, I guess, uh, the radio station would be on it, too.
[14:04.430 --> 14:05.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: The Terror Watch List.
[14:05.710 --> 14:14.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's used to stop suspected terrorists from entering the country, uh, but it includes not only suspected al-Qaeda members, but other suspects from a wide spectrum of organizations around the world.
[14:14.190 --> 14:19.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's according to a top federal law enforcement official, uh, FBI Assistant Director Michael Mason.
[14:19.910 --> 14:24.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, he, uh, said a couple of Fridays ago, the Terrorism Watch List is just what it says.
[14:24.670 --> 14:27.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's not just the al-Qaeda, uh, uh, watch list.
[14:27.330 --> 14:37.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, any terrorist from any organization, al-Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, the IRA, anybody who could potentially be on it if there was a reason to want to prevent that person from getting on an aircraft.
[14:37.930 --> 14:39.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Is, uh, Kissinger on it?
[14:39.430 --> 14:40.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, you see, that's the thing.
[14:40.610 --> 14:43.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: You gotta wonder, well, who gets to define what a terrorist organization is?
[14:43.650 --> 14:50.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: There are some governments that I think could be, uh, easily categorized as terrorist organizations, and, uh, you know, where do you draw the line?
[14:50.870 --> 14:51.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Who gets to do this?
[14:51.770 --> 14:52.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: And how do we get to see the list?
[14:52.730 --> 14:53.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'd like to know.
[14:53.910 --> 15:02.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, you can get the list of, uh, foreign terrorist organizations, uh, from the State Department, but they, I don't know if you can get the list of names.
[15:02.810 --> 15:11.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, questions have been raised, uh, about the Master List and other watch lists, including the Transportation Security Administration's no-fly list.
[15:11.550 --> 15:19.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, these questions were raised two weeks ago when it was reported that FBI agents had briefly detained a harmless federal employee who has an Irish last name.
[15:19.310 --> 15:33.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, uh, the Washington Post reported that Michael McMahon, a National Institutes of Health employee, was detained for about 45 minutes at Washington Dulles International Airport on New Year's Eve, and, uh, he said FBI agents asked him if he had ties to the IRA.
[15:34.370 --> 15:40.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, a simple Internet search turned up more than 20 individuals in Maryland and Virginia with the name Michael McMahon.
[15:40.710 --> 15:48.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, but, uh, the funny thing is that, um, they're saying, yes, this is how the list is supposed to work.
[15:48.410 --> 15:54.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, that, obviously, uh, if the person has the same name as, as somebody that's on a list, that this is going to happen.
[15:54.790 --> 15:56.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: It wouldn't be tied to a passport number or anything?
[15:56.910 --> 15:58.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's slightly more identifying?
[15:58.050 --> 16:03.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: You'd think that they would take a little bit more care to make sure that everybody with the same name is, is not targeted, but apparently...
[16:03.730 --> 16:05.030]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a lot of John Smiths around.
[16:05.310 --> 16:05.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[16:05.810 --> 16:07.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: God forbid John Smith is a terrorist.
[16:07.570 --> 16:11.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Who was that guy a few months ago with a very common name that just, they wouldn't let him fly in any plane?
[16:11.710 --> 16:13.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: I remember, I don't remember the name, it was, it was...
[16:13.530 --> 16:13.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[16:13.690 --> 16:15.010]  [SPEAKER_17]: But I do remember the, the story.
[16:15.230 --> 16:19.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: This is the same list that the name Osama Bin Laden does not appear, is that correct?
[16:19.630 --> 16:20.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: I guess not.
[16:20.810 --> 16:23.910]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah, no, it's, it's, this is the no-fly list that his name is not on it.
[16:24.790 --> 16:26.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, that's a, that's a good trick to...
[16:26.450 --> 16:30.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, that's a good thing, really, because there's a lot of children being named that in Arab countries now.
[16:30.830 --> 16:33.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, cause it's like the hot popular name now.
[16:33.710 --> 16:33.930]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh huh.
[16:34.170 --> 16:38.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, so there's, it's gonna be, you know, thousands of kids named Osama Bin Laden.
[16:38.910 --> 16:47.410]  [SPEAKER_09]: You would think that they would put on this list a, a little thing that says, uh, under Michael McMahon, it says, not the Michael McMahon with U.S.
[16:47.490 --> 16:50.370]  [SPEAKER_09]: passport number so and so, not the Michael McMahon with U.S.
[16:50.430 --> 16:53.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: passport so and so, you know, different number.
[16:54.250 --> 16:56.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: In other words, an elimination list.
[16:56.510 --> 17:05.910]  [SPEAKER_09]: People that were stopped once and, well, they're being stopped again, but they have this piece of idea which shows they're not the Michael McMahon who's an IRA terrorist.
[17:07.010 --> 17:22.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, uh, Barry Steinhardt from, uh, the ACLU says, uh, the lists are so shrouded in secrecy and so large that inevitably innocent people are swept up as potential suspects or terrorists, especially when you have lists that are maintained by intelligence agencies that have very little oversight.
[17:22.390 --> 17:23.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's the key.
[17:23.490 --> 17:30.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: The oversight, you know, it's, uh, whether you have anybody looking over these guys, making sure that they're, uh, doing a job at all, let alone a good job.
[17:32.510 --> 17:35.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, that's, uh, that's our little, uh, foray into that.
[17:35.670 --> 17:37.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, and Irish scanning is beginning.
[17:37.710 --> 17:38.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: Not Irish.
[17:38.370 --> 17:40.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Irish scanning is beginning.
[17:41.550 --> 17:48.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: I honestly didn't mean to say that, but, uh, Irish scanning, I guess, is taking place on, in the United States, but Irish scanning is taking place in Germany.
[17:49.170 --> 18:05.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, at Frankfurt, Germany, um, they, they, they have launched the program where airline passengers are required to stand in front of an identification device, uh, whose cameras will automatically capture images of their iris patterns, uh, companies participating in the trial have said.
[18:06.150 --> 18:15.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, the, uh, systems, seven of which have been installed at the airport, will then identify the passenger's iris and, and match that information with the passport data captured by a scanner.
[18:15.470 --> 18:20.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, successful, this could replace conventional systems for checking identity at airport immigration counters.
[18:20.470 --> 18:22.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: How many people really travel with flowers, though?
[18:24.650 --> 18:24.870]  [SPEAKER_17]: Yeah.
[18:25.470 --> 18:27.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: You've, uh, you've, uh, in front of me there.
[18:28.310 --> 18:37.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, so, initially, residents of, uh, EU countries in Switzerland, who fly frequently of Lufthansa, uh, will be able to take part in the trial at the main Frankfurt airport.
[18:38.010 --> 18:39.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: They make it sound like a privilege.
[18:39.550 --> 18:39.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[18:40.110 --> 18:42.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, one day, this is going to be happening to all of us, I bet.
[18:42.350 --> 18:46.790]  [SPEAKER_09]: This is very much life-imitating art, uh, if you remember the James Bond flick, Octopussy.
[18:46.790 --> 18:51.390]  [SPEAKER_09]: Uh, a nuclear bomb is stolen when a terrorist kills a U.S.
[18:51.450 --> 18:56.610]  [SPEAKER_09]: Air Force officer and gouges out his eyes to use in an iris scanning security device.
[18:57.070 --> 19:02.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: I highly doubt that someone could hold someone else's eyes up to the iris scanner and pass it off as their own.
[19:02.470 --> 19:03.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, that's true.
[19:03.690 --> 19:04.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: But you never know.
[19:05.050 --> 19:05.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[19:05.710 --> 19:07.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, um, let's, uh, take a look at some, uh...
[19:07.490 --> 19:08.250]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll experiment sometime.
[19:08.490 --> 19:09.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: ...some listener mail here.
[19:09.450 --> 19:17.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, of course, you can write to us, OTH at 2600.com, or by sending snail mail to, off the hook, KFWBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York.
[19:18.210 --> 19:20.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: 1-0-0-0-5.
[19:20.870 --> 19:21.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's correct, Jim.
[19:21.670 --> 19:21.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Thank you.
[19:22.430 --> 19:25.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, and let's see what we have, uh, this week.
[19:26.170 --> 19:27.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, here's a quick question.
[19:27.470 --> 19:34.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: In New Jersey, there used to be a prefix you could put in front of the last four digits of your phone number, uh, that when you hang up, it would ring your phone back.
[19:34.390 --> 19:39.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: It was changed, though I don't remember what it used to be, and I was wondering if it was changed or if it, uh, was disabled altogether.
[19:39.310 --> 19:40.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Any info is appreciated.
[19:40.550 --> 19:42.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, uh, I don't know.
[19:42.630 --> 19:43.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, I'm not from New Jersey.
[19:43.650 --> 19:45.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know what, uh, numbers they used there.
[19:45.290 --> 19:52.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: You might try looking for unused exchanges that, for some reason, have not been taken up by any numbers, uh, and trying those.
[19:52.670 --> 20:00.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: Out in, uh, Long Island used to be, I think, 230 plus the last four digits, 250 sometimes, uh, uh, 550 before that exchange was used for, uh, dial it services.
[20:01.210 --> 20:05.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, and here in New York, I, I believe 660 might still... let's try it.
[20:06.270 --> 20:07.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, let's get a dial tone.
[20:08.510 --> 20:09.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Dial tone, please.
[20:09.350 --> 20:10.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, now we'll dial 660.
[20:12.310 --> 20:12.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[20:13.070 --> 20:14.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sometimes something happens right away.
[20:14.690 --> 20:15.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sometimes you have to dial more digits.
[20:15.870 --> 20:16.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's dial more digits.
[20:19.250 --> 20:19.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, look at that.
[20:20.050 --> 20:22.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: We got, uh, we got a siren.
[20:23.810 --> 20:24.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[20:24.570 --> 20:28.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, that, that little dial tone noise you heard is just our, our system saying the call's going through.
[20:28.390 --> 20:33.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: So the, the, the alarm there means, I guess, that we're not allowed to call that number, which means it must still do something.
[20:33.470 --> 20:34.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: So go to a payphone, try it from there.
[20:35.310 --> 20:48.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, the way it used to work, and I'm not sure if it works this way anywhere, uh, anymore, you dial 660 plus either the last four digits of your phone number or the full phone number, you get a tone, and then you hang up, pick up again, and hang up, and your phone will ring.
[20:48.850 --> 20:49.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's how it used to work.
[20:54.190 --> 20:57.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Like a Touch-Tone testing, um, uh, utility.
[20:58.130 --> 20:59.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Other, other things too.
[20:59.210 --> 21:00.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Bernie, did you ever have anything like that in, uh, Philadelphia?
[21:01.450 --> 21:06.090]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I don't remember what the numbers were, but they're in, in Pennsylvania for years, uh, there were, there were different numbers.
[21:06.210 --> 21:11.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've always had good luck getting them by chatting up a friendly, uh, telephone company lineman.
[21:11.830 --> 21:12.010]  [SPEAKER_07]: Mm-hmm.
[21:12.130 --> 21:16.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, you see some guy working outside in a junction box or a pedestal or on a pole.
[21:16.910 --> 21:17.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[21:17.130 --> 21:23.230]  [SPEAKER_07]: Just strike up a friendly conversation with him and just casually throw in like, Hey, there used to be a number you could call that would call you back.
[21:23.650 --> 21:29.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, generally, these people are very friendly and they'll help you out once you, you know, get their defenses down and talk with them.
[21:29.630 --> 21:30.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's, uh, social engineering.
[21:30.890 --> 21:35.830]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's how you get information, by just simply chatting with people and, and getting them to tell you things.
[21:36.150 --> 21:37.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, you know, it's not even like it's a big secret.
[21:38.050 --> 21:39.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, why can't we know this information?
[21:40.370 --> 21:41.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's no reason.
[21:42.130 --> 21:42.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, yeah.
[21:42.930 --> 21:50.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, but failing that, if, uh, you don't have a friendly linesman to talk to, just, uh, simply start scanning and looking around and looking for weird exchanges.
[21:50.250 --> 21:52.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: And maybe you'll find some strange phone numbers that go places.
[21:53.190 --> 21:54.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: You never expected them to go.
[21:56.130 --> 21:56.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes.
[21:56.990 --> 21:57.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, okay.
[21:57.730 --> 21:58.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: How about this one?
[21:58.650 --> 22:01.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, I'm not sure if the law requiring telemarketers has gone into effect yet.
[22:02.690 --> 22:03.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: Requiring.
[22:03.350 --> 22:06.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's no law requiring telemarketers as far as I know.
[22:06.590 --> 22:07.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: Sometimes seems like it.
[22:07.830 --> 22:10.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's, it's, yeah, it's evolution gone mad is what it is.
[22:10.370 --> 22:14.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, I, I think he means the law requiring telemarketers to, uh, obey the law.
[22:15.470 --> 22:18.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Or, or whatever it is, uh, with the, uh, do not call list.
[22:18.710 --> 22:26.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, in the past few weeks while listening to my voicemail messages, I've started noticing that the ones that are hang-ups, um, which, uh, as you know, are most likely auto dialers.
[22:26.470 --> 22:29.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Actually, that's not necessarily true, but they could be, you know, angry people.
[22:29.810 --> 22:31.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: All kinds of possibilities there.
[22:31.570 --> 22:36.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, they're now frequently being prefaced by the caller's number rather than the normal from an unknown number.
[22:36.850 --> 22:49.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, this for me is actually worse because before I knew that if I heard the announcement from an unknown number before my voicemail started playing, uh, that I should immediately delete the message, since there's almost a 100% chance that they're all from identified numbers,
[22:49.910 --> 22:52.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: in my experience, are from telemarketers.
[22:52.810 --> 23:03.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, that sentence really, I should have, I should have changed so it made sense of some sort, but basically what I think he's trying to say is, uh, that, uh, whenever he saw something from an unknown number, he knew that that would be a telemarketer,
[23:03.850 --> 23:05.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: and he would ignore that call.
[23:05.550 --> 23:12.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, I have to listen to the number and actually wait to hear the auto dialer hang up before I delete the message to be even relatively sure that it's not someone I know.
[23:13.850 --> 23:14.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I don't know.
[23:14.990 --> 23:18.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, I think this is something that could be easily fixed if you get better software for your voicemail.
[23:19.270 --> 23:23.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Voicemail doesn't have to read out the whole phone number, uh, before it plays the message.
[23:23.970 --> 23:31.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, I, I've, I've used voicemail in very different systems, and, uh, that happens sometimes, but not all the time, not even most of the time, I don't think.
[23:32.130 --> 23:38.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, and, you know, I think it's good that they actually have a phone number displayed, because there's some accountability there.
[23:38.810 --> 23:47.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: I got a call from AT&T the other day, there was an 866 number displayed on the, uh, caller ID, which I guess is their toll-free number to call them back and complain if something happens.
[23:48.290 --> 23:54.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: Notice if a Sprint PCS calls you to, for collection, like if you're three days late with your bill, it's really not even due yet.
[23:55.290 --> 23:58.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, they'll call you, and they block their caller ID when they call your phone.
[23:58.730 --> 23:59.330]  [SPEAKER_07]: It says no ID.
[24:00.550 --> 24:00.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Interesting.
[24:01.370 --> 24:04.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Not telemarketing per se, but it's still really rude.
[24:05.250 --> 24:06.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, that's true.
[24:06.290 --> 24:12.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, you know, if you block, uh, well, if you just don't listen to block numbers, uh, if you don't answer them, then they'll never be able to reach you, will they?
[24:12.330 --> 24:12.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
[24:13.190 --> 24:13.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hmm.
[24:13.990 --> 24:21.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, uh, yeah, I think the answer to this, uh, is, um, is just to, uh, change your configuration so that, uh, this kind of thing doesn't bother you.
[24:21.830 --> 24:25.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: And also, you know, take note of the numbers that call you and see if they call you again.
[24:25.710 --> 24:27.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, uh, you might learn something.
[24:28.550 --> 24:31.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, uh, let's see what else we got here.
[24:31.870 --> 24:33.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a good Verizon story.
[24:33.470 --> 24:34.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: A good Verizon story?
[24:34.490 --> 24:34.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: You want to tell us?
[24:34.850 --> 24:35.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[24:35.210 --> 24:41.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: This is the one where the, uh, Verizon employees were caught spoofing, uh, a government, uh, employee's, uh, email address.
[24:41.410 --> 24:42.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, tell us about this.
[24:42.510 --> 24:58.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, harassing a customer, uh, uh, Paul Levy from the, uh, public citizen litigation group, uh, brought this to people's attention, uh, uh, says here, uh, faced with repeated complaints from a Verizon customer that were, uh, cc'd to a state attorney general's office,
[24:58.390 --> 25:08.610]  [SPEAKER_07]: one or more Verizon employees spoofed an email from a state bureaucrat telling the customer how pathetic he was for complaining and telling him to get lost.
[25:09.150 --> 25:24.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, the bureaucrat was questioned by a supervisor without any wrongdoing, uh, but then the bureaucrat turns around and, and sues the spoofing employees for emotional distress and sues Verizon alleging that it's vicariously responsible for its employees' misconduct.
[25:25.210 --> 25:29.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: Um, so, um, this is, uh, Booker versus gte.net.
[25:29.270 --> 25:30.490]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's a federal case.
[25:30.590 --> 25:31.590]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's, uh, in the courts now.
[25:32.050 --> 25:33.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: And, uh, it's pretty amusing.
[25:33.570 --> 25:44.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I'm, well, what I'm surprised at is that these, uh, the Verizon employees were not, uh, prosecuted for spoofing a, uh, a government employee's email address, uh, for means of harassment.
[25:44.490 --> 25:48.130]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, it's a pretty clear cut, it seems to me, if, if that's what happened.
[25:48.270 --> 25:51.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: So the Verizon employee, obviously a GTE employee before the Verizon merger.
[25:51.930 --> 25:52.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
[25:52.030 --> 25:58.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, they were sending email and, and pretending to be some kind of federal official or somebody who worked for the government?
[25:58.950 --> 26:01.390]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, apparently a, uh, a state bureaucrat.
[26:01.750 --> 26:02.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh-huh.
[26:02.050 --> 26:04.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't know whether it's probably a state bureaucrat from the PUC or something, I'm guessing.
[26:05.130 --> 26:06.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't have all the details on that.
[26:06.690 --> 26:22.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, uh, apparently, uh, saying that they were a state, uh, spoofing that email address of a, of a state, uh, regulatory, uh, bureaucrat, uh, and sending the messages to this, this customer who was complaining that Verizon was not doing, not responding to what they should have been doing properly.
[26:23.110 --> 26:29.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: And basically saying that the customer was telling the customer that they were pathetic and, and, uh, and they should just get lost.
[26:30.410 --> 26:43.530]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, anyhow, but the spoofing the email address from a government, uh, a government employee is, uh, seems like, should, it's probably against some law or multiple laws and doesn't look like, this is just a civil case, not a criminal case.
[26:44.570 --> 26:46.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I just think it's, it's kind of funny.
[26:46.130 --> 26:54.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: How, how did they actually, uh, figure out, uh, obviously, you know, the, the, the language probably was a big clue, but how did they, was the IP actually displayed?
[26:54.710 --> 26:55.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Was it something simple?
[26:55.810 --> 27:00.410]  [SPEAKER_07]: It probably, it probably was, it wasn't spoofed very well by these Verizon employees.
[27:00.410 --> 27:02.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: You know, you can, there's good ways of spoofing.
[27:02.590 --> 27:09.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, there's, there's, uh, difficult to detect, to detect ways of spoofing someone's email address and, uh, easy ways to detect it.
[27:09.250 --> 27:14.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: My guess is they, they didn't do a really good job of hiding their identity and, and they got caught.
[27:14.210 --> 27:15.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: How, how many employees are we talking about?
[27:15.990 --> 27:16.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, one or more.
[27:17.130 --> 27:19.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: It says in the, in the, in the legal papers.
[27:19.510 --> 27:19.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh huh.
[27:20.270 --> 27:20.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Interesting.
[27:20.790 --> 27:22.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: They probably just changed the from line in it.
[27:22.990 --> 27:26.390]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, if you just look at the mail headers, you can figure out what, what's Yeah.
[27:26.410 --> 27:29.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: If it's something that simple where they can just change the from.
[27:29.050 --> 27:31.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, I mean, that's, I, I don't consider that to be a crime.
[27:31.510 --> 27:34.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: I just think that's, you know, uh, a, a prank of various sorts.
[27:34.430 --> 27:41.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, you can, you can send an email from anyone in any domain and to a normal person who wouldn't look into it very deeply, it would seem like it came from there.
[27:42.170 --> 27:42.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yeah.
[27:42.190 --> 27:42.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: Because they wouldn't, you know.
[27:42.870 --> 27:45.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: But it's very easy to figure out where it actually did come from.
[27:45.090 --> 27:45.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
[27:45.130 --> 27:46.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: I see that kind of thing all the time.
[27:46.090 --> 27:50.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Obviously, it's not very professional behavior for a Verizon employee to be undertaking, but, you know.
[27:50.270 --> 27:53.730]  [SPEAKER_08]: I mean, I was gonna say, I think the, the, the employee in question should be fired, maybe.
[27:53.850 --> 27:55.290]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I figured that's happened, at least.
[27:55.350 --> 27:56.170]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, they haven't said.
[27:56.170 --> 27:57.510]  [SPEAKER_08]: Bernie, have they been fired?
[27:57.770 --> 28:01.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: Uh, I will research this case more thoroughly if, uh, if anybody's interested.
[28:01.470 --> 28:01.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[28:01.770 --> 28:10.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, that's, that's definitely something that I, I think people would want to know because, uh, you know, the idea of a Verizon employee out there just randomly sending email from all kinds of different people at, uh, we're not gonna sleep well at night.
[28:11.190 --> 28:14.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: I noticed we received a ton of email about this whole $20 bill thing.
[28:15.290 --> 28:15.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh.
[28:15.790 --> 28:27.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Somebody, uh, made a post on the Internet saying, uh, I was in a truck stop at some shopping mall in a truck stop and walked out of a store and I had $1,000 and $20 bills in my wallet.
[28:27.950 --> 28:28.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: Mm-hmm.
[28:28.270 --> 28:29.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not gonna ask why.
[28:29.290 --> 28:33.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it set off the, the store alarm, you know, the thing when you walk out.
[28:33.490 --> 28:34.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: A large money detector.
[28:34.310 --> 28:35.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: There must be RFIDs in it.
[28:35.650 --> 28:36.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: They put it in their microwave.
[28:37.250 --> 28:40.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Uh, oddly enough, the, they put the stack in their microwave.
[28:40.930 --> 28:42.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: Oddly enough, the center of the bill's burned.
[28:42.590 --> 28:49.210]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, and basically, there, there are a couple reasons why this is, you know, there's likely not any RFID tags in there.
[28:49.470 --> 28:53.830]  [SPEAKER_10]: I mean, they said, well, the eye of Jackson, Jackson's eye exploded, so it must have been an RFID tag.
[28:53.930 --> 28:54.790]  [SPEAKER_18]: Jackson's eye exploded.
[28:54.790 --> 28:55.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: Yes.
[28:55.530 --> 28:55.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well.
[28:56.070 --> 29:00.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Essentially, this person's claiming that there's an RFID tag in Jackson's eye.
[29:00.250 --> 29:02.790]  [SPEAKER_10]: And there's a couple reasons why this probably isn't true.
[29:02.910 --> 29:03.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, uh, interesting.
[29:04.090 --> 29:05.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was talking to Bernie, actually, earlier.
[29:05.350 --> 29:09.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Bernie, you said you were, you were in your kitchen cooking something and you said you'd tell me what it was later.
[29:09.190 --> 29:10.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: Was, was it related to this?
[29:10.290 --> 29:13.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was a new, one of the new, new colorful $20 bills.
[29:13.210 --> 29:13.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was cooking it.
[29:13.790 --> 29:14.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: I cooked it for over two minutes.
[29:16.210 --> 29:17.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: You actually did.
[29:17.110 --> 29:17.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Isn't this illegal?
[29:17.850 --> 29:17.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: I did.
[29:18.010 --> 29:19.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: I wanted to see if anything gets...
[29:19.550 --> 29:20.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: You're destroying, destroying money.
[29:20.870 --> 29:22.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, you're defacing money, aren't you?
[29:22.530 --> 29:22.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Bernie?
[29:23.070 --> 29:23.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, no, nothing happened.
[29:24.090 --> 29:27.530]  [SPEAKER_17]: I just want to know that was it white, white sauce or red sauce that you're enjoying it with?
[29:27.810 --> 29:29.810]  [SPEAKER_17]: Bernie, you're not getting enough fiber.
[29:29.930 --> 29:30.250]  [SPEAKER_17]: No comment.
[29:30.950 --> 29:31.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: So tell us what happened.
[29:32.130 --> 29:32.390]  [SPEAKER_17]: All right.
[29:32.510 --> 29:33.370]  [SPEAKER_17]: Well, basically...
[29:34.130 --> 29:35.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: I meant Bernie, but go ahead.
[29:36.790 --> 29:43.890]  [SPEAKER_07]: Well, I'm standing there in my, where I work in the kitchen, microwave on and peering intently at it.
[29:43.970 --> 29:45.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: And a couple of employees walked up like, what are you doing?
[29:45.930 --> 29:47.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: And they saw this $20 bill going around.
[29:48.610 --> 29:51.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think you might get another Secret Service visit now.
[29:52.290 --> 29:56.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: But anyhow, after two and a half minutes, I took it out and it looked fine.
[29:56.350 --> 29:57.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: There were no sparks.
[29:57.570 --> 29:59.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: And it was just like...
[29:59.350 --> 30:01.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was warm, but not hot enough to combust.
[30:01.890 --> 30:06.310]  [SPEAKER_07]: I'm surprised that it didn't combust with that metalized polyester stripe.
[30:06.730 --> 30:10.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you hold up the light, you see there's a stripe that says USA 20 on it.
[30:11.730 --> 30:13.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's not just in the new bill.
[30:13.150 --> 30:14.810]  [SPEAKER_07]: They've been doing that for about 10 years now.
[30:15.270 --> 30:17.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: You can actually, with your fingernails, pull that stripe out.
[30:17.990 --> 30:21.190]  [SPEAKER_07]: That's what sets off certain types of detectors at an airport.
[30:21.190 --> 30:30.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you've got a bag full of money, and you go through the airport, it'll set it off and they'll know you've got a pile of money, believe it or not.
[30:31.210 --> 30:36.250]  [SPEAKER_07]: But if you pull these little stripes out, then I guess you can do some money laundering that way.
[30:36.350 --> 30:39.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: But anyway, nothing happened to this $20 bill, so this is kind of a hoax.
[30:39.990 --> 30:42.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: I think these people just were jumping to conclusions.
[30:42.450 --> 30:43.910]  [SPEAKER_07]: I don't think they were trying to hoax anyone.
[30:44.610 --> 30:47.590]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's a couple of reasons why it wouldn't be RFID tags.
[30:47.770 --> 30:50.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: One, the RFID tag thing is fairly new.
[30:50.850 --> 30:52.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's used for tracking shipments and whatnot.
[30:53.190 --> 30:57.910]  [SPEAKER_10]: A truck stop in the middle of nowhere isn't going to have RFID detectors as you walk out.
[30:58.150 --> 31:04.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: What they're going to have is they're going to have detectors that look for magnetic tags, generally, that are placed on merchandise.
[31:04.410 --> 31:08.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: So what likely happened is you've got, you know, 50...
[31:08.690 --> 31:09.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: What is it?
[31:09.330 --> 31:10.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: 50, $20 bills, right?
[31:10.770 --> 31:11.330]  [SPEAKER_10]: For $1,000.
[31:11.990 --> 31:13.570]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, you've got that in your pocket.
[31:13.710 --> 31:15.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: They've got... there's, you know, the metal strip.
[31:15.550 --> 31:17.930]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's some metal in the ink used for them.
[31:17.930 --> 31:21.730]  [SPEAKER_10]: So this large concentration probably set off the detector.
[31:22.150 --> 31:26.550]  [SPEAKER_10]: And the fact is the person put the stack of $20s in their microwave.
[31:26.850 --> 31:28.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: So since there is, you know, there is...
[31:28.850 --> 31:30.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: And it didn't burn evenly.
[31:30.410 --> 31:31.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: Some were more burned than others.
[31:31.650 --> 31:32.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: So those were probably in the center.
[31:32.930 --> 31:35.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: They heated up faster because of the microwave.
[31:35.870 --> 31:38.070]  [SPEAKER_10]: And thus parts of it caught fire.
[31:38.250 --> 31:40.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: He didn't have a money clip on the thing when he put it in there, did he?
[31:40.810 --> 31:41.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: I...
[31:41.210 --> 31:42.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Not with that, certainly.
[31:42.550 --> 31:43.970]  [SPEAKER_10]: But, I mean, that would explain why it burned.
[31:44.030 --> 31:45.270]  [SPEAKER_10]: It burned pretty much in the center.
[31:45.370 --> 31:46.710]  [SPEAKER_10]: Jackson's eyes pretty much in the center.
[31:47.270 --> 31:49.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: And, you know, they're not going to have RFID detectors.
[31:50.450 --> 31:51.190]  [SPEAKER_10]: Just footnotes...
[31:51.190 --> 31:53.770]  [SPEAKER_07]: I was kind of hoping it would burst into flames, but nothing happened.
[31:54.390 --> 31:55.770]  [SPEAKER_09]: Just footnotes on this story.
[31:56.010 --> 31:58.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: It started in 96 with a stripe in the bills.
[31:59.690 --> 32:06.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: And I reported sometime that year that they found a catch inside Monopoly games being shipped out of the country.
[32:07.550 --> 32:14.830]  [SPEAKER_09]: They never detected why, but that's when we started getting suspicious on this thing being able to be read by an external sensor of some sort.
[32:15.410 --> 32:15.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Hmm.
[32:16.310 --> 32:17.110]  [SPEAKER_10]: Okay, moving on.
[32:17.470 --> 32:17.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: There is...
[32:17.630 --> 32:17.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: Go ahead.
[32:17.870 --> 32:18.670]  [SPEAKER_10]: There's one more thing.
[32:18.830 --> 32:24.870]  [SPEAKER_10]: I read that there's actually, in the bills, the serial number is magnetized on some portion of it.
[32:24.910 --> 32:25.630]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm not sure where.
[32:25.870 --> 32:31.770]  [SPEAKER_10]: But that could also, I mean, be something that could either be used to track it or to make, to check that it's real.
[32:32.970 --> 32:33.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: There was a...
[32:34.610 --> 32:46.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: The Federal Reserve Bank does have plans, in effect, to eventually, maybe not require, but it'll be voluntary to begin with, I'm sure, to have money actually scanned at point-of-sale terminals.
[32:46.990 --> 33:01.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: So, I think the ultimate goal the government wants is to trace, you know, the flow of money, the huge black economy, or the underground economy, trace dollar bills, or whatever denomination, from cradle to grave.
[33:01.550 --> 33:05.070]  [SPEAKER_07]: I mean, they only last a couple of years before they're shredded and new ones are printed.
[33:05.070 --> 33:10.170]  [SPEAKER_07]: But, if you could follow a bill, remember that Where's George website where you could follow a bill or whatever?
[33:10.170 --> 33:12.510]  [SPEAKER_07]: But that wasn't at every point-of-sale transaction.
[33:12.690 --> 33:13.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: It was just voluntary.
[33:14.370 --> 33:20.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: But they developed prototypes of readers where they, you know, when you go to the supermarket or something, you can put, you have to put the bills into the scanner.
[33:21.350 --> 33:28.870]  [SPEAKER_07]: And then, ostensibly, that'll be connected to your ID, and then they can say, okay, this bill went from this person's hands to this company and then paid out to this person.
[33:28.870 --> 33:35.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: And I don't think, I don't know if that'll ever happen in the near future, but that's something that they've looked at and tried to put together.
[33:35.970 --> 33:42.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, between that and paperless transactions, I guess everything that we do will be tracked and monitored in some way.
[33:44.250 --> 33:46.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the least we can do is be educated as to how it works.
[33:47.550 --> 33:49.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: Here's another letter from a listener.
[33:49.430 --> 33:53.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Dear Off The Hook, I was watching a commercial for AT&T which emphasized the ampersand.
[33:53.070 --> 33:54.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, you know, I've seen that recently.
[33:54.750 --> 33:59.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: I guess they want to be using the and sign as theirs, like AT&T created and.
[34:00.090 --> 34:01.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, the latest thing...
[34:01.710 --> 34:04.750]  [SPEAKER_07]: .com was invented by, what, Cisco?
[34:05.050 --> 34:05.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Something like that.
[34:05.810 --> 34:16.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: But the latest thing is that what they're doing is, for cellular phone conversations, every cellular phone conversation has a point where they say something interesting and then they tell the rest of the story.
[34:16.490 --> 34:21.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: So the and part is what AT&T keeps harping on, like they're the ones responsible for it.
[34:21.350 --> 34:24.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: But in any event, so that's why you're seeing that all over the place.
[34:24.950 --> 34:29.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: This person says, it dawned on me that I don't know what AT&T stands for.
[34:30.810 --> 34:31.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[34:31.730 --> 34:32.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, we're not laughing at you.
[34:32.950 --> 34:33.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're just laughing.
[34:34.230 --> 34:39.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's an acronym used so widely, and we hear it every day, but very few people know what it stands for.
[34:41.090 --> 34:44.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, actually, you know, I don't know how many people really don't know what it stands for.
[34:44.610 --> 34:45.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: We should go out in the street and ask people at random.
[34:46.070 --> 34:47.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: Jim wants us to know that he knows.
[34:47.330 --> 34:48.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sure, Jim, you are on Jeopardy.
[34:48.730 --> 34:49.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: Of course you know.
[34:49.910 --> 34:50.710]  [SPEAKER_09]: Of course you know.
[34:50.710 --> 34:51.890]  [SPEAKER_09]: Let me discuss something.
[34:52.130 --> 35:08.150]  [SPEAKER_09]: A couple of years ago, AT&T changed their name from what it used to be to just AT&T, because they thought part of the old name was very anachronistic, and they just wanted initials, because that liberated them to do anything they darn well pleased.
[35:08.310 --> 35:11.010]  [SPEAKER_10]: It's like the SATs don't stand for anything anymore.
[35:11.030 --> 35:12.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Scholastic aptitude testing.
[35:12.190 --> 35:12.370]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[35:12.770 --> 35:13.510]  [SPEAKER_10]: What do you mean, no?
[35:13.590 --> 35:15.170]  [SPEAKER_10]: They don't stand for anything anymore.
[35:15.190 --> 35:16.130]  [SPEAKER_10]: That was a question on the test.
[35:16.130 --> 35:16.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: They say it themselves.
[35:16.850 --> 35:18.410]  [SPEAKER_10]: It doesn't stand for anything anymore.
[35:18.550 --> 35:19.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Of course it does.
[35:19.030 --> 35:20.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, does he know what SAT means?
[35:20.330 --> 35:22.050]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, when it was me, it was Stanford achievement test.
[35:22.550 --> 35:22.810]  [SPEAKER_10]: Stanford?
[35:23.030 --> 35:23.950]  [SPEAKER_10]: Standard or something like that.
[35:24.090 --> 35:24.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: No.
[35:24.530 --> 35:25.230]  [SPEAKER_10]: That's the day you...
[35:25.230 --> 35:26.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Scholastic aptitude test.
[35:27.190 --> 35:27.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well...
[35:27.550 --> 35:30.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: I know very few things from high school that I remember, but that's one of them, okay?
[35:30.990 --> 35:33.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Because I had a very traumatic, you know, experience with that.
[35:33.730 --> 35:34.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's the day you take it on.
[35:34.870 --> 35:37.110]  [SPEAKER_07]: Stanford Research Institute is SRI International.
[35:37.610 --> 35:40.570]  [SPEAKER_07]: It used to be Stanford Research Institute, and now they're like, no, we're not.
[35:40.650 --> 35:42.030]  [SPEAKER_07]: We're just SRI International now.
[35:42.730 --> 35:44.210]  [SPEAKER_07]: The SRI doesn't stand for anything.
[35:44.690 --> 35:45.370]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's crazy.
[35:45.870 --> 35:46.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, you can...
[35:46.550 --> 35:48.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: They can say that if they want, but we all know the truth.
[35:48.990 --> 35:53.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Anyway, so for those of you listening with bated breath that want to know what AT&T stands for...
[35:54.730 --> 35:55.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Tough.
[35:58.090 --> 36:00.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, we're gonna have a little fun with this first.
[36:00.950 --> 36:01.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: But basically...
[36:01.950 --> 36:03.110]  [SPEAKER_09]: We'll each take one word.
[36:03.290 --> 36:04.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Seeing as how you use...
[36:04.130 --> 36:05.630]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, let's let it lie for a few weeks.
[36:05.930 --> 36:06.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know about weeks.
[36:06.890 --> 36:10.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's just see if anybody can call in and tell us the answer, or maybe get it wrong.
[36:10.130 --> 36:10.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: That'd be nice.
[36:11.110 --> 36:12.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Seeing as how you can...
[36:12.230 --> 36:17.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: You use that acronym so often on the show, I thought it might be a good thing to let listeners know what they're actually saying when you say AT&T.
[36:17.650 --> 36:20.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Thanks a lot for all the work on your show, and keep the public both entertained and informed.
[36:20.830 --> 36:21.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Signed, Brad.
[36:21.230 --> 36:24.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I think, Brad, we're doing that just by not saying anything right now.
[36:25.450 --> 36:31.550]  [SPEAKER_07]: Won't give it away, but we could talk about a couple other telephone companies' initials.
[36:31.550 --> 36:32.350]  [SPEAKER_07]: How about MCI?
[36:32.350 --> 36:33.450]  [SPEAKER_07]: Who knows what that stands for?
[36:33.570 --> 36:34.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, I know what that stands for, don't I?
[36:36.150 --> 36:37.320]  [SPEAKER_18]: Metro Communications, Inc.?
[36:38.090 --> 36:38.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: No.
[36:39.550 --> 36:39.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: Microwave?
[36:40.350 --> 36:40.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Microwave.
[36:40.930 --> 36:41.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Microwave, yeah.
[36:41.070 --> 36:41.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's right.
[36:41.750 --> 36:42.950]  [SPEAKER_07]: Microwave Communications, Inc.
[36:43.230 --> 36:45.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, Bernie, what year did MCI start?
[36:45.150 --> 36:45.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Try that one.
[36:46.410 --> 36:46.790]  [SPEAKER_07]: 1968.
[36:47.170 --> 36:47.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's very good.
[36:47.790 --> 36:47.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[36:51.230 --> 36:51.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: Early years.
[36:51.930 --> 36:52.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I had to ask you.
[36:52.870 --> 36:53.090]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, great.
[36:53.090 --> 36:55.030]  [SPEAKER_09]: What are you doing in bed at this moment with that book?
[36:55.130 --> 36:56.830]  [SPEAKER_07]: It's under my mattress, actually.
[36:57.150 --> 36:57.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[36:57.570 --> 36:58.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's even weirder.
[36:58.410 --> 37:01.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's continue with letters here.
[37:01.330 --> 37:02.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Maybe we can take some phone calls.
[37:02.230 --> 37:03.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: 212-209-2900.
[37:04.510 --> 37:07.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: This writer or listener calls in, or let me get this straight.
[37:07.790 --> 37:10.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: The listener writes in with this.
[37:10.410 --> 37:18.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: I participated in Gray Tuesday, my temporarily gray website and mirror was down in short order due to exceeding my bandwidth quota for the day, maybe even the month.
[37:19.110 --> 37:20.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm still glad I was part of it.
[37:20.810 --> 37:25.110]  [SPEAKER_18]: To me, it's about freedom of an artist to sample music and the freedom to express themselves using the samples.
[37:25.270 --> 37:26.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm a Beatles fan.
[37:26.330 --> 37:27.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: The white album is one of my favorites.
[37:27.870 --> 37:30.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: I had never heard of Jay-Z or the black album until this issue came up.
[37:31.110 --> 37:38.130]  [SPEAKER_18]: Frankly, this mix by DJ Danger Mouse to create the gray album exposed me to a kind of music that I found I like and now appreciate more.
[37:38.450 --> 37:43.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Imagine my surprise when you played music from the gray album on Off the Hook, which I listened to on the net.
[37:43.490 --> 37:43.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Bravo.
[37:43.970 --> 37:45.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: I applaud you guys and WBAI.
[37:46.030 --> 37:46.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: Keep it up.
[37:46.490 --> 37:46.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Signed, Wolf.
[37:47.130 --> 37:49.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Wolf, we're very happy to be playing things like that.
[37:49.550 --> 37:51.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: I heard it a few other times on WBAI as well.
[37:51.510 --> 37:54.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sure it got a very good reception there.
[37:54.730 --> 37:59.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're going to continue to play new things, whether the recording industry likes it or not.
[37:59.470 --> 38:03.130]  [SPEAKER_08]: Much more reception than it deserves based on the musical merits.
[38:03.130 --> 38:04.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, that's your opinion, you know?
[38:04.790 --> 38:05.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Your opinion is not the law.
[38:06.290 --> 38:06.450]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[38:06.670 --> 38:07.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[38:08.630 --> 38:09.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hey, gang.
[38:09.390 --> 38:12.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: First, I want to say I really appreciate the work you guys do.
[38:12.110 --> 38:14.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: It takes balls to do what you do for as long as you have.
[38:15.370 --> 38:18.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: Second, a friend gave me a bootleg copy of Freedom Down Time.
[38:18.390 --> 38:21.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: We watched it at his house before I found out it was a bootleg.
[38:21.930 --> 38:22.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: I destroyed it.
[38:22.870 --> 38:25.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: But I want to send you guys the money for the viewing.
[38:25.210 --> 38:26.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: You work hard and don't deserve to get ripped off.
[38:27.390 --> 38:28.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Again, I appreciate what you do.
[38:33.130 --> 38:33.690]  [SPEAKER_18]: Tone deaf.
[38:33.830 --> 38:40.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, tone deaf, it's not necessary because we encourage people to distribute the film however they wish to distribute it.
[38:40.090 --> 38:42.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: If you want to get a good copy, get a good copy from us.
[38:42.990 --> 38:46.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's on the website, www.2600.com.
[38:46.990 --> 38:54.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: The only problem I have with bootleg copies is sometimes that they're substandard and then people write to us and complain that the film quality is substandard, which I don't think it is.
[38:55.210 --> 38:58.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Another thing you want to keep in mind is that the DVD will be coming out this spring.
[38:59.090 --> 39:00.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: In fact, we're working on that right now.
[39:00.990 --> 39:02.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: We have many language translations.
[39:04.430 --> 39:06.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: In fact, let me take this moment to issue an appeal.
[39:06.990 --> 39:09.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: If anyone out there can help us with one problem we're having.
[39:09.830 --> 39:12.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: We've translated the film into more than a dozen languages.
[39:13.110 --> 39:14.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's going to be part of the DVD.
[39:14.710 --> 39:18.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're having problems with the captioning for the language of Farsi.
[39:19.130 --> 39:20.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's what they speak in Iran.
[39:21.030 --> 39:25.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: If anyone can help us with this as far as figuring out how to display it properly.
[39:25.590 --> 39:30.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: We were displaying the font on the screen and in the middle of the font was all of a sudden the Apple logo.
[39:30.890 --> 39:35.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I'm relatively certain that the Farsi language does not have as one of its characters the Apple logo.
[39:36.070 --> 39:38.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, we need to figure out how to get around that.
[39:38.670 --> 39:40.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's got something to do with the font issue.
[39:40.310 --> 39:45.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: If anyone out there is an expert on Farsi and knows how to do this, please write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
[39:45.510 --> 39:47.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: We could certainly use the help on that.
[39:48.090 --> 39:48.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm sorry.
[39:48.870 --> 39:49.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Go ahead.
[39:49.430 --> 39:53.830]  [SPEAKER_08]: Alternately, if you can confirm that the Apple logo is in fact used in Farsi, we'd like to know that too.
[39:53.870 --> 39:55.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: That would be useful as well.
[39:55.350 --> 39:57.670]  [SPEAKER_17]: And they could get screen credit as well for their help, right?
[39:58.250 --> 39:58.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, yeah.
[40:00.150 --> 40:03.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[40:03.530 --> 40:05.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: And let's take a phone call.
[40:05.710 --> 40:06.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: And good evening.
[40:06.470 --> 40:06.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[40:07.910 --> 40:15.930]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, I'd like to mention that you mentioned last week about the three-way call that NYNEX does.
[40:16.410 --> 40:17.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's no NYNEX.
[40:18.290 --> 40:19.270]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's no NYNEX.
[40:19.330 --> 40:19.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: There's no Bell.
[40:19.810 --> 40:20.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: Two phone companies behind.
[40:21.470 --> 40:23.170]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's what Ryzen does in New York.
[40:23.270 --> 40:23.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[40:23.470 --> 40:25.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: You can make free...
[40:25.070 --> 40:32.390]  [SPEAKER_06]: If you go to one of these phones like in a bank or someplace where you pick up the phone and it automatically dials something...
[40:33.350 --> 40:33.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: Courtesy phones.
[40:34.350 --> 40:39.090]  [SPEAKER_06]: You pick up the phone, it mutes the mouthpiece, it mutes the Touch-Tones until it dials whatever it is.
[40:39.090 --> 40:40.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Courtesy phones, right, right.
[40:40.290 --> 40:40.830]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right, courtesy phones.
[40:41.510 --> 40:48.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: After it connects to whatever it's supposed to connect to, you flash the switch, it can get your three-way dial tone, then you can dial off of that line.
[40:50.130 --> 40:53.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, you're saying that the courtesy phone has the same feature they didn't ask for.
[40:53.390 --> 41:01.430]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, yeah, because you say that all phones, you say all lines, Verizon puts us on all lines, so even the courtesy phone, that's a line too.
[41:01.430 --> 41:05.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: The kind of courtesy phone that actually does dialing and isn't just a dedicated connection.
[41:05.190 --> 41:07.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: I suppose that is theoretically possible.
[41:07.570 --> 41:08.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Have you tried it yourself?
[41:08.870 --> 41:12.750]  [SPEAKER_06]: I have tried it myself, and it's, you know, it's a courtesy phone with buttons that you...
[41:12.750 --> 41:16.210]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's a regular line that you pick up, it mutes the mouthpiece...
[41:16.210 --> 41:17.950]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know what a courtesy phone is.
[41:17.990 --> 41:19.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: What I'm asking you is, did it actually work?
[41:20.410 --> 41:23.810]  [SPEAKER_06]: It does work, yeah, because you get your three-way dial tone, and then you dial off of that.
[41:23.990 --> 41:26.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: And you made a phone call using this method?
[41:26.430 --> 41:26.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[41:26.890 --> 41:28.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, that's not very courteous, you know that.
[41:29.230 --> 41:31.450]  [SPEAKER_06]: And I'd also like to mention that I was out of state.
[41:31.970 --> 41:33.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: I was very happy for that.
[41:35.210 --> 41:38.910]  [SPEAKER_06]: Nowhere did I see any, God bless America, or united we stand sick.
[41:38.910 --> 41:44.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was so pleasant to be out of New York City, and Indiana, and all the Midwest, and the holidays...
[41:44.230 --> 41:45.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, stop.
[41:45.750 --> 41:49.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Wow, you're saying outside of New York State there's no God bless America signs or flags?
[41:50.170 --> 41:51.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, I did not see any...
[41:51.450 --> 41:51.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, I saw flags.
[41:51.910 --> 41:53.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, that's a revelation to me.
[41:53.510 --> 42:00.150]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I mean, I saw flags and stuff, but I didn't see any of the, you know, the stickers or the posters or things like that.
[42:00.250 --> 42:02.530]  [SPEAKER_10]: Well, there are a lot fewer people in the Midwest, too.
[42:03.050 --> 42:03.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: Huh?
[42:03.890 --> 42:06.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, there are fewer people in the Midwest, but you know, maybe you weren't looking hard enough.
[42:06.970 --> 42:08.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think you'll find these things there pretty readily.
[42:09.830 --> 42:10.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: No, I've been...
[42:10.050 --> 42:12.070]  [SPEAKER_06]: I went to the Midwest and back, and you know...
[42:12.070 --> 42:13.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Are you sure you didn't go to Canada, maybe?
[42:13.230 --> 42:13.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: Because...
[42:13.870 --> 42:14.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, I...
[42:14.390 --> 42:15.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: That would be a different country.
[42:15.890 --> 42:16.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, Rebel.
[42:16.570 --> 42:21.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, thanks for the everlasting quest for knowledge there, and we'll talk to you in the future.
[42:21.610 --> 42:22.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, Jeff.
[42:22.170 --> 42:26.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: I will be in Indiana in a couple of weeks, so I will double-check this.
[42:26.090 --> 42:26.570]  [SPEAKER_17]: Will you check up on this, please?
[42:26.570 --> 42:27.330]  [SPEAKER_17]: I will research this, yes.
[42:27.530 --> 42:35.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Of course, you realize our listeners in Indiana will go around putting up signs now so that you get a report that they have lots of signs.
[42:35.630 --> 42:35.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[42:35.810 --> 42:37.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Bernie, you're in Pennsylvania.
[42:37.570 --> 42:39.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Have you ever seen a sign that said, God bless America?
[42:40.710 --> 42:52.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: I actually saw one on the right... on the... September 12th, the day after the disaster, on Route 95, the interstate highway.
[42:52.850 --> 42:59.290]  [SPEAKER_07]: There were government-owned signs, you know, the flash traffic messages.
[42:59.490 --> 42:59.670]  [SPEAKER_07]: Right.
[43:00.090 --> 43:02.270]  [SPEAKER_07]: One of them was flashing, God bless America.
[43:03.090 --> 43:06.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, I think you see those signs everywhere, not just in New York State.
[43:06.990 --> 43:11.050]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yes, but this was a government-owned and operated sign that said, God bless America.
[43:11.130 --> 43:12.090]  [SPEAKER_10]: Like a road sign?
[43:12.230 --> 43:13.250]  [SPEAKER_10]: One of the electronic road signs?
[43:13.330 --> 43:13.350]  [SPEAKER_10]: Exactly.
[43:13.850 --> 43:14.990]  [SPEAKER_07]: Anyone could have done that.
[43:15.170 --> 43:16.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Why is it necessary to do that on a road sign?
[43:16.970 --> 43:17.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: I mean, you know...
[43:17.990 --> 43:18.330]  What is it?
[43:18.610 --> 43:20.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
[43:20.310 --> 43:23.010]  [SPEAKER_09]: Isn't that a violation of church... separation of church and state?
[43:23.270 --> 43:27.470]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, I don't think the road crews who programmed the sign really cared about that.
[43:27.610 --> 43:28.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I don't think it's a big deal either.
[43:28.970 --> 43:31.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: I'm just saying, you know, for the heck of it that...
[43:31.230 --> 43:31.670]  [SPEAKER_09]: Sure it is.
[43:31.830 --> 43:32.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Absolutely.
[43:32.530 --> 43:33.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, let's take another phone call.
[43:33.630 --> 43:35.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: 212-209-2900.
[43:35.450 --> 43:37.390]  [SPEAKER_08]: Next thing we know, they'll be putting it on our money.
[43:37.690 --> 43:37.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[43:38.210 --> 43:38.530]  [SPEAKER_08]: Good evening.
[43:38.610 --> 43:38.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: How are you here?
[43:39.370 --> 43:46.810]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'd like to know if there is still a phone number that you can use to call from a payphone.
[43:46.950 --> 43:51.510]  [SPEAKER_04]: I know it used to be where you could get the number for that payphone.
[43:51.690 --> 43:52.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, where are you?
[43:52.750 --> 43:53.410]  [SPEAKER_18]: What state?
[43:53.590 --> 43:53.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: Manhattan.
[43:54.270 --> 43:54.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're in Manhattan.
[43:54.890 --> 43:56.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: 958 should still work in Manhattan.
[43:57.230 --> 43:58.510]  [SPEAKER_18]: Just try dialing 958.
[43:58.610 --> 43:59.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: It should read back your phone number.
[44:00.790 --> 44:01.190]  [SPEAKER_04]: 958?
[44:01.290 --> 44:01.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[44:01.570 --> 44:04.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: Some payphones, you might have to pad that with four more digits.
[44:05.170 --> 44:06.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: And any four digits should work.
[44:07.090 --> 44:07.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: What four?
[44:07.710 --> 44:08.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: Four digits?
[44:08.950 --> 44:10.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: Just to make it a seven-digit number.
[44:11.410 --> 44:15.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Some payphones require you to do that, and some payphones also will block that number.
[44:15.750 --> 44:20.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: But if you go to a regular Verizon phone and dial 958, it should read back the phone number.
[44:20.390 --> 44:22.070]  [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, just the three digits, 958?
[44:22.810 --> 44:23.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[44:23.330 --> 44:24.950]  [SPEAKER_04]: And it should give you the phone number.
[44:25.050 --> 44:26.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, and it'll definitely work from your home phone, too.
[44:26.990 --> 44:27.310]  [SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[44:27.730 --> 44:28.290]  [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[44:28.410 --> 44:28.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[44:28.730 --> 44:33.150]  [SPEAKER_07]: Also, it's all very easy if you want to know what the number you're calling from.
[44:33.150 --> 44:38.630]  [SPEAKER_07]: If you have a cell phone, just call your cell phone from that phone and you'll get the phone number that way.
[44:39.070 --> 44:40.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
[44:40.210 --> 44:40.330]  [SPEAKER_18]: A caller ID.
[44:40.550 --> 44:45.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, I was thinking that might be a way that many linesmen today actually test your phone.
[44:45.870 --> 44:46.810]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, they don't make it ring.
[44:46.890 --> 44:48.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: They call with the cell phone that they're carrying.
[44:48.370 --> 44:52.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think that happens more frequently now, especially when those numbers aren't around anymore.
[44:52.810 --> 44:53.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: I've seen them do it.
[44:53.890 --> 44:54.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[44:54.750 --> 44:55.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, let's take another phone call.
[44:55.710 --> 44:56.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[44:56.390 --> 44:57.170]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[44:57.790 --> 44:58.190]  [SPEAKER_16]: Hello.
[44:58.490 --> 44:58.870]  [SPEAKER_18]: How you doing?
[44:59.350 --> 44:59.570]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[45:00.070 --> 45:09.650]  [SPEAKER_16]: First of all, SAT used to stand for Scholastic Aptitude Test, but then there was a dispute because that implied that it doesn't measure what you've learned.
[45:09.650 --> 45:13.730]  [SPEAKER_16]: It only measures your ability, natural ability.
[45:14.070 --> 45:17.690]  [SPEAKER_16]: So, then they changed it to Scholastic Achievement Test.
[45:18.470 --> 45:18.870]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[45:18.870 --> 45:19.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: I don't know if it's still that.
[45:21.290 --> 45:21.690]  [SPEAKER_10]: Interesting.
[45:21.690 --> 45:22.750]  [SPEAKER_10]: No, no, it's just SAT.
[45:23.630 --> 45:24.290]  [SPEAKER_10]: But at one point...
[45:24.290 --> 45:24.850]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm telling you.
[45:25.310 --> 45:26.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, okay, fine.
[45:26.290 --> 45:30.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, you know, they keep changing what things stand for, but you can't go away from history.
[45:30.690 --> 45:34.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: Like, for instance, there's a TV channel called, I think, the Family Channel.
[45:34.430 --> 45:35.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: It keeps getting passed around from network to network.
[45:35.950 --> 45:37.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, I think it's ABC Family Channel.
[45:37.690 --> 45:39.570]  [SPEAKER_18]: Before that, it was, what, Discovery Family Channel?
[45:39.730 --> 45:40.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: That was the Family Channel.
[45:41.010 --> 45:42.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: And before that, it was CBN.
[45:42.530 --> 45:45.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: And CBN used to stand for Christian Broadcasting Network.
[45:45.930 --> 45:50.210]  [SPEAKER_18]: And they would deny it, you know, left and right that it stood for that.
[45:50.670 --> 45:52.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, of course, that's what it stood for originally.
[45:52.990 --> 45:58.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: And that's why I think you still see the 700 Club every morning on that channel, because it's part of the agreement when they sold it.
[45:59.150 --> 46:00.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, thanks for the info, though.
[46:00.610 --> 46:02.990]  [SPEAKER_16]: I have something about the iTunes promotion.
[46:03.290 --> 46:03.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh-huh.
[46:04.250 --> 46:04.590]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-oh.
[46:04.590 --> 46:08.210]  [SPEAKER_16]: Well, I noticed in the TV ad that it said that there was no purchase necessary.
[46:08.810 --> 46:12.030]  [SPEAKER_16]: And they said you should go to the iTunes website to find out more.
[46:12.430 --> 46:14.050]  [SPEAKER_16]: I went to the iTunes website.
[46:14.370 --> 46:14.750]  [SPEAKER_16]: Uh-oh.
[46:14.810 --> 46:16.070]  [SPEAKER_16]: It turns out I'm still here.
[46:16.210 --> 46:16.510]  [SPEAKER_16]: Are you...
[46:16.510 --> 46:17.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think we lost Bernie.
[46:17.750 --> 46:19.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hang on, let me, uh...
[46:19.890 --> 46:21.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm trying to get rid of Bernie now.
[46:22.470 --> 46:23.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, can you, can you quick...
[46:23.630 --> 46:24.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: I'm going to put you on hold.
[46:24.550 --> 46:25.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's what I'll do.
[46:25.990 --> 46:27.290]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, now I'm going to get rid of Bernie.
[46:28.170 --> 46:28.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: Bernie's gone.
[46:29.010 --> 46:29.750]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the caller is back.
[46:29.930 --> 46:30.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: Caller, are you still there?
[46:30.910 --> 46:31.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hello.
[46:31.370 --> 46:32.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, go ahead and finish that.
[46:32.190 --> 46:32.550]  [SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[46:33.190 --> 46:46.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: Um, it turns out that you can, that in order to get a free game piece, which gives you a one in three chance of getting one of those songs, you have to mail a self-addressed stamped envelope.
[46:46.290 --> 46:51.710]  [SPEAKER_16]: So you need double postage, except in Vermont where they say you can omit the return postage.
[46:52.090 --> 46:52.370]  [SPEAKER_18]: Interesting.
[46:52.650 --> 46:59.670]  [SPEAKER_16]: So it adds up to you pay a lot more for free game pieces on average than you do for a song on iTunes.
[46:59.910 --> 47:00.650]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, technically, yeah.
[47:00.810 --> 47:02.030]  [SPEAKER_18]: Technically, a purchase is required.
[47:02.090 --> 47:02.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: A purchase of a stamp.
[47:03.990 --> 47:06.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: But maybe not a purchase of anything from them.
[47:06.470 --> 47:07.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Maybe that's what they mean.
[47:07.350 --> 47:11.490]  [SPEAKER_16]: Yeah, but you'd just be wasting money, you know, with all that postage.
[47:11.570 --> 47:11.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's true.
[47:12.150 --> 47:12.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: That is true.
[47:12.830 --> 47:21.370]  [SPEAKER_16]: So it makes it, it's like, it's, it must be some law saying that in certain categories they have to say no purchase necessary and then they have to have a way to get a piece without buying Pepsi or anything.
[47:21.370 --> 47:23.250]  [SPEAKER_16]: But it's not practical at all.
[47:23.370 --> 47:23.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: No.
[47:23.730 --> 47:24.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, thanks for bringing it up.
[47:24.890 --> 47:25.290]  [SPEAKER_16]: You're welcome.
[47:25.430 --> 47:25.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[47:26.310 --> 47:28.010]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, that's, uh, that's something.
[47:28.270 --> 47:29.270]  [SPEAKER_18]: I never even thought of that.
[47:29.430 --> 47:37.430]  [SPEAKER_08]: There was once an airline who had a similar contest where they would give a game piece, uh, to anyone who flew on, flew on their service.
[47:38.090 --> 47:45.190]  [SPEAKER_08]: Um, and, and you had a reasonable chance of winning, which, which, you know, if you had to buy a plane ticket, they could afford.
[47:45.590 --> 47:58.490]  [SPEAKER_08]: But then someone discovered you could get these game pieces for, you know, the cost of two postage stamps and so, like, one in some relatively small number were winning free plane flights and, uh, put the airline out of business, apparently.
[47:58.890 --> 47:59.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Wow.
[47:59.170 --> 48:00.710]  [SPEAKER_07]: Yeah, Sprint PCS dumped my call.
[48:00.810 --> 48:03.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, apparently you said something offensive to them and they had every right to do that.
[48:03.950 --> 48:04.990]  [SPEAKER_18]: It is their network, after all.
[48:05.950 --> 48:09.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: Um, okay, uh, six more phone calls, 212-209-2900.
[48:09.330 --> 48:13.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: Speaking of, um, of, um, what things stand for, MSNBC.
[48:13.710 --> 48:14.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Who wants to take that one?
[48:14.410 --> 48:15.390]  [SPEAKER_18]: What does MSNBC stand for?
[48:15.510 --> 48:16.230]  [SPEAKER_09]: I know that.
[48:16.350 --> 48:16.730]  [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, go ahead.
[48:16.730 --> 48:19.470]  [SPEAKER_09]: Microsoft, NBC, National Broadcasting Company.
[48:19.810 --> 48:19.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: See?
[48:20.210 --> 48:21.870]  [SPEAKER_09]: Or is it Microsoft Network, BC?
[48:22.510 --> 48:24.990]  [SPEAKER_09]: Well, it's possible, but it's a combination.
[48:25.010 --> 48:28.330]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a joint venture of Microsoft and the National Broadcasting Company.
[48:28.550 --> 48:28.730]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[48:28.810 --> 48:30.090]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, that was the lead up to the hard question.
[48:30.310 --> 48:31.530]  [SPEAKER_18]: CNBC, what does that stand for?
[48:31.670 --> 48:31.970]  [SPEAKER_09]: Ooh.
[48:32.170 --> 48:32.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[48:32.690 --> 48:32.950]  [SPEAKER_08]: Ooh.
[48:34.050 --> 48:35.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: You know, you know, Mike?
[48:35.310 --> 48:35.410]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[48:35.410 --> 48:35.970]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, what is it?
[48:36.030 --> 48:37.770]  [SPEAKER_08]: It's the Consumer News and Business Channel.
[48:37.770 --> 48:38.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: How did you know that?
[48:38.610 --> 48:39.090]  [SPEAKER_08]: Don't know.
[48:39.390 --> 48:40.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: You hate all those words.
[48:41.870 --> 48:45.870]  [SPEAKER_08]: This is something I logically shouldn't know, but...
[48:45.870 --> 48:47.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, uh, okay, yeah, that's true.
[48:47.750 --> 48:51.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the funny thing is, it's NBC, but the NBC doesn't stand for National Broadcasting Company.
[48:52.050 --> 48:54.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: It stands for News and Business Channel, which I think is kind of cute.
[48:55.390 --> 48:55.850]  [SPEAKER_07]: GTE.
[48:56.330 --> 48:58.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, General Telephone and Electronics?
[48:58.790 --> 48:58.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yep.
[48:59.270 --> 48:59.490]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[49:00.070 --> 49:00.230]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right.
[49:00.350 --> 49:01.610]  [SPEAKER_18]: IT&T.
[49:01.710 --> 49:03.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: International Telephone and Telegraph.
[49:03.450 --> 49:03.950]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's right.
[49:04.230 --> 49:04.670]  [SPEAKER_18]: LTV.
[49:04.670 --> 49:07.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: IT&T also was a bakery, you know, and they overthrew governments.
[49:08.530 --> 49:13.930]  [SPEAKER_07]: There's a bagel shop in Philadelphia, the Fairmount Bagel Institute, also known as the FBI.
[49:16.110 --> 49:16.910]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, let's...
[49:16.910 --> 49:19.590]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, the CIA, the Culinary Institute of America.
[49:19.810 --> 49:19.930]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's right.
[49:19.930 --> 49:20.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: There you go.
[49:20.470 --> 49:21.190]  [SPEAKER_09]: Also in Philadelphia.
[49:21.630 --> 49:23.070]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, they're in Poughkeepsie, too, aren't they?
[49:23.150 --> 49:23.430]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[49:23.590 --> 49:25.250]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think that's where their main site is.
[49:26.010 --> 49:26.590]  [SPEAKER_09]: Somewhere around there.
[49:26.710 --> 49:26.850]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[49:26.910 --> 49:27.630]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's Poughkeepsie.
[49:27.690 --> 49:28.150]  [SPEAKER_18]: It's Poughkeepsie.
[49:28.810 --> 49:31.310]  [SPEAKER_18]: I had a meal there last year.
[49:31.510 --> 49:32.350]  [SPEAKER_18]: Wonderful place.
[49:32.610 --> 49:33.770]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, because they don't eat anything.
[49:33.770 --> 49:35.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: They just cook, you know, to learn how to cook.
[49:35.650 --> 49:37.890]  [SPEAKER_18]: And then they, you know, they have all this food.
[49:38.010 --> 49:39.090]  [SPEAKER_17]: The students are amazing.
[49:39.810 --> 49:41.450]  [SPEAKER_18]: 212-209-2900 is our phone number.
[49:41.550 --> 49:42.470]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's take some more phone calls.
[49:42.670 --> 49:43.550]  [SPEAKER_18]: And good evening.
[49:43.670 --> 49:44.050]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[49:45.770 --> 49:46.090]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello?
[49:46.330 --> 49:46.710]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, go ahead.
[49:46.990 --> 49:48.190]  [SPEAKER_18]: You have a bit of an echo there.
[49:48.550 --> 49:48.890]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay.
[49:49.750 --> 49:50.210]  [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[49:51.050 --> 49:54.470]  [SPEAKER_03]: I saw this commercial on just regular broadcast.
[49:54.630 --> 49:56.930]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they were talking about the PDA.
[49:56.930 --> 49:59.310]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they said, you know, the laws are outmoded.
[50:01.650 --> 50:04.230]  [SPEAKER_03]: And they just basically suggested that you
[50:08.440 --> 50:09.080]  could...
[50:09.080 --> 50:10.840]  [SPEAKER_03]: of why they would say something was outdated.
[50:11.740 --> 50:13.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or what it has to do with the PDAs.
[50:14.920 --> 50:17.060]  [SPEAKER_09]: I faintly remember this.
[50:17.240 --> 50:20.660]  [SPEAKER_09]: I think it has something to do with voice over Internet protocol.
[50:21.200 --> 50:23.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: And they want that regulated.
[50:23.880 --> 50:37.640]  [SPEAKER_09]: The phone companies who are sponsoring the commercial, I remember that they're the ones sponsoring it, want it regulated as if it was another phone service, which essentially would prevent it from getting going unless they were controlling it.
[50:37.640 --> 50:38.880]  [SPEAKER_07]: A common carrier.
[50:39.420 --> 50:39.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: A common carrier.
[50:39.480 --> 50:40.160]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, exactly.
[50:40.420 --> 50:41.220]  [SPEAKER_09]: Bernie, you know more.
[50:42.040 --> 50:43.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: So is this a good thing?
[50:43.260 --> 50:45.740]  [SPEAKER_03]: Or should I be opposed to it?
[50:45.860 --> 50:47.080]  [SPEAKER_09]: No, you should be opposed to it.
[50:47.140 --> 51:03.720]  [SPEAKER_09]: You should let voice over Internet protocol thrive on its lonesome without onerous taxes that the phone companies want the government to impose on it, thereby rendering it non-existent and letting them keep their current monopoly.
[51:04.020 --> 51:06.000]  [SPEAKER_09]: God, I'm a Republican and I'm saying these things.
[51:06.080 --> 51:06.620]  [SPEAKER_09]: What is wrong?
[51:06.620 --> 51:08.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay, thanks for that phone call.
[51:08.880 --> 51:09.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: And let's go over to this one.
[51:09.880 --> 51:10.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[51:10.280 --> 51:10.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[51:11.900 --> 51:12.220]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hey.
[51:13.000 --> 51:13.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: What's on your mind?
[51:14.740 --> 51:17.860]  [SPEAKER_05]: I just wanted to answer your AT&T.
[51:18.080 --> 51:19.260]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, yeah, no one did that yet.
[51:19.260 --> 51:19.580]  [SPEAKER_18]: Go ahead.
[51:19.740 --> 51:20.440]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, yeah, sure.
[51:20.560 --> 51:23.420]  [SPEAKER_05]: It's American Telephone and Telegraph, right?
[51:23.540 --> 51:24.360]  [SPEAKER_18]: That's right, that's right.
[51:24.380 --> 51:28.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: We said AT&T, which is exactly the same thing, except it's International Telephone and Telegraph, but yeah.
[51:28.380 --> 51:28.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: Oh, okay.
[51:28.860 --> 51:30.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: You got it right, you got it right.
[51:30.040 --> 51:30.240]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah.
[51:30.620 --> 51:32.120]  [SPEAKER_05]: Also, I had a...
[51:32.120 --> 51:32.820]  [SPEAKER_05]: I got...
[51:32.820 --> 51:35.640]  [SPEAKER_05]: I'm on the EFF mailing list, right?
[51:35.880 --> 51:44.020]  [SPEAKER_05]: And I got this email that said the court overturned a DVD de-scrambling case.
[51:44.200 --> 51:45.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yeah, that's the California case.
[51:45.860 --> 51:47.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: That was the Andrew Bunner case.
[51:47.600 --> 51:48.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
[51:48.180 --> 51:49.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: Basically, they overturned...
[51:49.800 --> 51:53.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: They said it was unconstitutional, that it was a trade secret injunction back in 99.
[51:54.520 --> 51:54.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: Right.
[51:54.860 --> 52:01.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: That doesn't affect us because we were tried under the DMCA, a totally different case.
[52:01.100 --> 52:01.580]  [SPEAKER_05]: Oh, okay.
[52:01.600 --> 52:08.040]  [SPEAKER_18]: We were named in that case as well, but that case was never really all that serious to us.
[52:08.220 --> 52:10.880]  [SPEAKER_18]: The serious one was in New York, and that one, unfortunately, still stands.
[52:11.660 --> 52:11.960]  [SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
[52:12.200 --> 52:12.460]  [SPEAKER_05]: All right?
[52:12.880 --> 52:13.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, thanks.
[52:13.640 --> 52:14.300]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, thanks for calling.
[52:14.620 --> 52:15.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, bye.
[52:16.020 --> 52:17.680]  [SPEAKER_18]: And I guess we have time for a couple more.
[52:17.900 --> 52:19.180]  [SPEAKER_18]: Next week, we'll do IBM.
[52:19.760 --> 52:20.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: Maybe, maybe.
[52:20.720 --> 52:20.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[52:21.360 --> 52:22.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[52:22.880 --> 52:24.100]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right now, not before...
[52:24.100 --> 52:26.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, you're triggering all kinds of machines, Rebel.
[52:27.100 --> 52:28.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: Once per show, at the most.
[52:28.820 --> 52:29.380]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[52:29.400 --> 52:30.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Not after the disaster.
[52:30.540 --> 52:30.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: All right, Rebel.
[52:31.680 --> 52:35.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: Now, we're going to have to restrict you to not next show, but the show after that.
[52:35.080 --> 52:35.740]  [SPEAKER_18]: You see how this works?
[52:35.900 --> 52:36.140]  [SPEAKER_18]: Okay.
[52:36.420 --> 52:37.600]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[52:39.360 --> 52:39.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: Go ahead.
[52:40.580 --> 52:41.280]  [SPEAKER_11]: Hello, hi.
[52:41.500 --> 52:42.080]  [SPEAKER_11]: Is that even on?
[52:42.880 --> 52:43.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: No.
[52:43.960 --> 52:44.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: Let's go over here.
[52:44.800 --> 52:45.220]  [SPEAKER_18]: Good evening.
[52:45.380 --> 52:45.840]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[52:47.380 --> 52:47.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Go ahead.
[52:49.540 --> 52:49.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Hello?
[52:50.140 --> 52:50.560]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, go ahead.
[52:50.640 --> 52:50.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: You're on the air.
[52:51.620 --> 52:51.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: Hi.
[52:52.560 --> 52:57.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: I was just wondering about what you guys think about the Diebold and the e-voting.
[52:58.700 --> 53:01.800]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, first of all, we have to agree to call it Diebold, right?
[53:02.400 --> 53:03.660]  [SPEAKER_18]: Is that the right pronunciation?
[53:04.120 --> 53:04.720]  [SPEAKER_18]: I think so.
[53:04.860 --> 53:05.160]  [SPEAKER_18]: I don't know.
[53:05.580 --> 53:07.340]  [SPEAKER_18]: For the sake of the show, we're just going to say it that way.
[53:08.140 --> 53:13.920]  [SPEAKER_18]: There were some instances yesterday during the primaries, I understand, of electronic voting problems.
[53:13.920 --> 53:14.620]  [SPEAKER_18]: Is that right, Mike?
[53:15.080 --> 53:16.120]  [SPEAKER_18]: Yes, that's right.
[53:16.400 --> 53:19.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: Well, you sent the story earlier, so I was wondering if you might have some more details on this.
[53:19.640 --> 53:19.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yes.
[53:19.780 --> 53:20.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't recall the details.
[53:21.080 --> 53:22.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't have the story in front of me.
[53:22.280 --> 53:25.280]  [SPEAKER_08]: But, you know, it doesn't work, this e-voting.
[53:25.440 --> 53:27.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: Among all the other problems, it doesn't work.
[53:27.320 --> 53:28.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: Why doesn't it work?
[53:28.340 --> 53:30.240]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, I read it just a little while ago.
[53:30.320 --> 53:33.060]  [SPEAKER_17]: They did have problems with machines that weren't programmed properly.
[53:33.760 --> 53:38.380]  [SPEAKER_17]: They had other machines that were just booting up to Windows instead of the voting software.
[53:38.660 --> 53:39.820]  [SPEAKER_17]: It was just a mess.
[53:39.960 --> 53:45.120]  [SPEAKER_17]: And people had to go back to paper anyway so that they could go to work and, you know, vote and leave.
[53:45.380 --> 53:48.680]  [SPEAKER_17]: So it really was just a huge fiasco.
[53:48.840 --> 53:53.500]  [SPEAKER_18]: But do the paper systems, you know, where you pull the levers and all that, do they work any better?
[53:54.040 --> 53:54.960]  [SPEAKER_18]: Do they really work?
[53:55.100 --> 54:01.160]  [SPEAKER_08]: The rest of the world has this crazy system where they take a piece of paper and a pen and they mark their choice and then they count it.
[54:01.160 --> 54:02.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I don't understand why the U.S.
[54:02.840 --> 54:03.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: is too good for this system.
[54:04.920 --> 54:14.760]  [SPEAKER_09]: The problem with electronic voting is that if you try to recount, it gives you exactly the same look and feel as the original count.
[54:15.100 --> 54:19.940]  [SPEAKER_09]: There is no second-level, second-order of counting.
[54:19.940 --> 54:36.260]  [SPEAKER_09]: Whereas in a machine or in paper ballots, if it's reported that your opponent has a thousand and you have 999, you can go back and he has either a thousand slips of paper or a thousand tick marks or a thousand something.
[54:36.560 --> 54:44.540]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you go back to an electronic voting machine as currently used, you just get the same numbers you got before in the same format.
[54:44.660 --> 54:45.480]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are no ticks.
[54:45.800 --> 54:46.860]  [SPEAKER_09]: There are no human error.
[54:46.860 --> 54:53.780]  [SPEAKER_18]: The big problem is, of course, that, you know, people say, well, then simply print out a receipt so that you know how you voted and you can check it later.
[54:53.980 --> 54:58.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: The problem with that is, of course, people can easily buy your vote because you'll have to show who you voted for.
[54:58.660 --> 55:03.420]  [SPEAKER_18]: And the whole purpose of a secret ballot is so that that evidence does not exist.
[55:03.660 --> 55:06.420]  [SPEAKER_09]: Furthermore, what good does a receipt do if you take it home?
[55:06.420 --> 55:10.800]  [SPEAKER_09]: You'd need a two part receipt and one part stays there and you take the other one home.
[55:11.120 --> 55:11.200]  [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.
[55:11.500 --> 55:13.140]  [SPEAKER_09]: And even then it has the problem you mentioned.
[55:13.240 --> 55:13.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: It's a big mess.
[55:14.060 --> 55:18.940]  [SPEAKER_18]: You know, I just think that computers that are designed for things like this and good software should work.
[55:19.280 --> 55:27.180]  [SPEAKER_10]: But I like the idea of using punch cards like they did on, you know, for old Fortran programs because those, how often did those fail?
[55:27.960 --> 55:28.540]  [SPEAKER_18]: No, that's true.
[55:28.760 --> 55:28.900]  [SPEAKER_09]: Right.
[55:29.020 --> 55:31.780]  [SPEAKER_09]: You punch out a card, you put it into a feeder.
[55:31.980 --> 55:34.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: It says you're voting for so-and-so, so-and-so, and so-and-so.
[55:34.460 --> 55:36.580]  [SPEAKER_09]: If you agree with this, fine.
[55:36.720 --> 55:39.460]  [SPEAKER_09]: If not, you rip up the card, you get another blank, you punch it out again.
[55:39.620 --> 55:46.100]  [SPEAKER_09]: But if you agree, you register it and you leave the card so they can count that physically.
[55:46.260 --> 55:54.260]  [SPEAKER_10]: Or, I mean, with that, with the whole thing with, you know, on the old machines, you could run thousands or hundreds of these cards through and, you know, it wouldn't really slip up.
[55:54.360 --> 55:59.080]  [SPEAKER_10]: So you could easily recount these punched cards much like you could run a program.
[55:59.160 --> 56:01.100]  [SPEAKER_18]: We're going to have to take this up in future shows.
[56:01.100 --> 56:05.400]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, and I'm sure we'll be talking about it a lot in, uh, in weeks, months, years to come.
[56:05.840 --> 56:09.860]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, reminder, this Friday, uh, is the 2600 meeting all around the world.
[56:09.980 --> 56:14.000]  [SPEAKER_18]: But, uh, this one in particular in New York, we're going to be having a network meeting at 7 p.m. at the Citigroup Center, 53rd and Lexington.
[56:17.700 --> 56:22.200]  [SPEAKER_18]: So, uh, be sure to be there if you have any, uh, any interest in, uh, in being part of the network.
[56:22.240 --> 56:23.900]  [SPEAKER_18]: And again, an appeal to people out there.
[56:24.080 --> 56:26.460]  [SPEAKER_18]: Unfortunately, our network guy didn't, uh, find his way here tonight.
[56:26.460 --> 56:28.820]  [SPEAKER_18]: But hopefully he'll be here in the future talking about specifics.
[56:29.160 --> 56:39.640]  [SPEAKER_18]: Uh, if, uh, you have additional bandwidth that we can use during the conference, being held July 9th through 11th at the Hotel Pennsylvania in Midtown, uh, please contact us, OTH at 2600.com.
[56:39.760 --> 56:41.080]  [SPEAKER_18]: We'd like to speak to you about that.
[56:41.900 --> 56:44.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: And, uh, that's going to pretty much do it for us here tonight.
[56:44.820 --> 56:46.280]  [SPEAKER_18]: Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
[56:46.460 --> 56:47.700]  [SPEAKER_18]: Emmanuel Goldstein for everybody.
[56:47.700 --> 56:48.520]  [SPEAKER_18]: Have a good night.