Off The Hook - 2004-07-28

[00:00.000 --> 00:09.980]  [SPEAKER_00]: Although 59 years have passed since World War II, Poland and Germany have not reconciled on many issues yet, including compensation to the victims of the Holocaust.
[00:10.320 --> 00:21.500]  [SPEAKER_00]: The project of building the Center Against Expulsions, which Steinbach calls, quote-unquote, a monument to German martyrdom, proves that still much needs to be done on the way to full reconciliation.
[00:22.020 --> 00:25.960]  [SPEAKER_00]: In Warsaw, I'm Danuta Szafraniec for Free Speech Radio News.
[00:28.620 --> 00:31.020]  [SPEAKER_10]: You've been listening to Free Speech Radio News.
[00:31.140 --> 00:32.300]  [SPEAKER_10]: I'm Nell Abram.
[00:36.830 --> 00:41.290]  [SPEAKER_06]: You're listening to 99.5 FM WBAI New York.
[00:41.830 --> 00:43.050]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's 7 p.m.
[00:43.070 --> 00:43.690]  [SPEAKER_06]: on a Wednesday.
[00:44.130 --> 00:45.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: Time for Off the Hook.
[01:27.480 --> 01:27.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes.
[01:29.520 --> 01:30.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Emmanuel, are you there?
[01:30.740 --> 01:31.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: I am here.
[01:32.480 --> 01:33.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Greetings, everybody.
[01:33.620 --> 01:38.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry I'm not there, but actually, I'm not in a way because being here is so much better right now.
[01:39.400 --> 01:44.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm speaking to you from Halifax, Nova Scotia, which is a really nice city.
[01:44.600 --> 01:50.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a bit foggy today, but decided I just had to get away for a little while to keep my head, to keep my sanity.
[01:51.100 --> 01:54.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I'm looking for my sanity here, and I think I'm on the verge of finding it.
[01:55.160 --> 01:58.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm also here with Mike, who joined me on this road trip.
[01:58.120 --> 02:05.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're heading up to Newfoundland and also to the islands of Saint-Pierre-Miquelon, which is part of France, as we've talked about before.
[02:05.440 --> 02:06.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: So you're driving to France?
[02:07.480 --> 02:12.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Technically, sort of, because you can only drive as far as the city or town of Fortune.
[02:12.600 --> 02:19.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: And from there, you hop on a boat, I believe a motorized boat, which takes you to the islands.
[02:19.700 --> 02:21.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can't take your car with you.
[02:21.060 --> 02:23.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: However, when you get there, you will find cars are there.
[02:23.220 --> 02:28.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Where European cars somehow have gotten there, and you are, in fact, walking through the streets of Europe.
[02:28.860 --> 02:30.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: So it's a very strange place.
[02:30.840 --> 02:34.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll take some pictures, and hopefully we can show them on the radio when I get back.
[02:34.480 --> 02:34.800]  [SPEAKER_07]: All right.
[02:35.920 --> 02:37.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: I believe Bernie is also joining us today.
[02:38.220 --> 02:39.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: In Philadelphia.
[02:39.520 --> 02:40.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: How about that?
[02:40.160 --> 02:41.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: The marvels of technology.
[02:41.060 --> 02:42.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm here in Halifax.
[02:42.720 --> 02:46.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're there in Philadelphia, and the studio is still in New York, last I checked.
[02:48.500 --> 02:59.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: One thing I just would like to make this offer to people, if we have any listeners in Halifax, and I know we do, but I'm not sure if they're listening to us live, we would like to meet up with you after this radio show.
[02:59.840 --> 03:03.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, Mike, I believe we have set up a meeting place for 10 p.m.
[03:03.680 --> 03:03.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: tonight.
[03:03.880 --> 03:05.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's an hour ahead where we are right now.
[03:05.700 --> 03:06.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: So right now it's 8 o'clock.
[03:07.340 --> 03:11.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we would like to meet anybody in Halifax at 10 p.m.
[03:11.660 --> 03:13.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: At what place did we say we were going to go to?
[03:13.840 --> 03:22.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's a restaurant called The Argyle, which is on Argyle Street, 1575 Argyle Street, right near the end of the street.
[03:22.660 --> 03:24.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's more than I've ever heard you say Argyle before.
[03:25.620 --> 03:31.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's not a word I use very often, but there's a restaurant called Argyle, on Argyle Street.
[03:31.600 --> 03:33.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll tell you what, you know what we'll do?
[03:33.060 --> 03:33.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Not many options.
[03:33.860 --> 03:41.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you're a listener to us in Halifax, Nova Scotia, and you meet us at 10 o'clock at the Argyle, on Argyle Street, 15 what, Argyle?
[03:42.120 --> 03:42.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: 1575.
[03:43.120 --> 03:44.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: 1575 Argyle Street.
[03:44.580 --> 03:45.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: We will buy you dinner.
[03:45.980 --> 03:49.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, we will do that if you meet us there at that point in time.
[03:49.240 --> 03:58.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, let me point out, too, just so that people don't go crazy and call their relatives in Halifax and have 50 people show up and meet us, thinking they're going to get a free meal.
[03:58.060 --> 03:59.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have to know something about the show.
[03:59.740 --> 04:02.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: You have to be a listener, because we are going to quiz you on that.
[04:02.340 --> 04:09.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: So you have to be a bona fide listener, not just somebody who has gotten a tip that you can meet these suckers from the United States.
[04:09.900 --> 04:12.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's why it's an hour after the show, because we have to write the quiz.
[04:12.780 --> 04:13.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[04:14.240 --> 04:22.400]  [SPEAKER_12]: And, Emmanuel, you should warn listeners who show up that there's a sign in front of the place that says, no shoes, no Argyle socks, no service.
[04:22.740 --> 04:23.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, you've been here?
[04:24.020 --> 04:24.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yes.
[04:24.770 --> 04:26.210]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, it's an amazing place.
[04:26.820 --> 04:29.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, tomorrow, by the way, is the Tall Ship Festival.
[04:29.700 --> 04:30.270]  [SPEAKER_14]: It begins.
[04:30.760 --> 04:33.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Unfortunately, we're leaving tonight, so we kind of missed the whole thing.
[04:33.700 --> 04:38.530]  [SPEAKER_14]: But everybody's talking about it, that these tall ships are sailing into the harbor in Halifax.
[04:38.710 --> 04:44.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, you can't really see them at all, because it's so foggy, you can barely see a few feet in front of you.
[04:44.830 --> 04:53.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: But they're there, or they're coming, and we will be on our way to the ferry that takes you over to Newfoundland, leaving, I believe, 8 o'clock tomorrow morning.
[04:53.790 --> 04:54.770]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of boats involved.
[04:54.850 --> 04:59.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: We drove up through Maine, and we had to take a ferry known as the Cat.
[05:00.330 --> 05:02.230]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, Mike was especially impressed with the Cat.
[05:02.380 --> 05:03.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: He can't stop talking about it.
[05:04.260 --> 05:06.150]  [SPEAKER_04]: I actually have stopped talking about it.
[05:06.150 --> 05:07.170]  [SPEAKER_14]: Have you stopped talking about it?
[05:08.210 --> 05:09.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's a very fast boat.
[05:09.650 --> 05:10.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's the fastest...
[05:10.640 --> 05:12.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: There are a lot of conditional phrases here.
[05:12.470 --> 05:15.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's the fastest international North American car ferry.
[05:17.560 --> 05:19.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: I don't know if there are any others, but...
[05:19.320 --> 05:22.910]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, it basically means it's faster than their competitor, but...
[05:22.910 --> 05:26.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: It goes 55 miles an hour on the water, which is pretty fast.
[05:26.330 --> 05:26.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh.
[05:26.900 --> 05:30.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, so we took that from Maine all the way over to...
[05:30.000 --> 05:31.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: What was the port that we called in?
[05:31.880 --> 05:33.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia.
[05:33.000 --> 05:34.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yarmouth, Nova Scotia.
[05:35.220 --> 05:38.670]  [SPEAKER_14]: And where the Acadians are prevalent.
[05:38.980 --> 05:41.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: There's an Acadian Congress, whatever that means.
[05:41.730 --> 05:46.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: It means it's the largest group of Acadians gathering anywhere in the world later this year.
[05:46.080 --> 05:49.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: And if you don't know what an Acadian is, well, we can't really help you at this point in time.
[05:49.760 --> 05:50.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're going to have to look it up.
[05:50.880 --> 05:57.850]  [SPEAKER_14]: But suffice to say that there is Acadian power manifesting itself right here on Nova Scotia, and it's something to behold.
[05:58.820 --> 06:04.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: But when we got to Yarmouth, we figured, you know, it wouldn't be that big a deal with coming on a boat.
[06:04.380 --> 06:12.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Usually, passing on a boat isn't as strenuous or difficult as going through one of those long lines of people trying to get into a country.
[06:12.560 --> 06:16.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I figured since, you know, a year or two ago...
[06:16.100 --> 06:19.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, it was two years ago when I tried to do this trip once before by way of Montreal.
[06:19.880 --> 06:24.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I was turned back because the person I was with had a record that stretched back ten years.
[06:24.500 --> 06:31.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: And apparently that meant that they couldn't accept that person into this country until a couple more years had passed by.
[06:32.120 --> 06:35.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Last year, I went up with Red Hacked to Montreal.
[06:35.280 --> 06:36.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: We also got pulled aside.
[06:36.980 --> 06:37.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Remember that, Red Hacked?
[06:37.660 --> 06:37.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[06:38.200 --> 06:39.560]  [SPEAKER_06]: It was... we were interrogated.
[06:39.700 --> 06:40.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: We were interrogated.
[06:40.340 --> 06:40.790]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of fun.
[06:41.440 --> 06:44.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I figured, you know, maybe this wouldn't happen again.
[06:44.440 --> 06:44.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: But you know what?
[06:44.940 --> 06:46.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Out of, what, 140 boats on the...
[06:46.900 --> 06:47.790]  [SPEAKER_04]: 140 cars.
[06:47.960 --> 06:48.610]  [SPEAKER_14]: 140 cars.
[06:48.730 --> 06:49.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry.
[06:50.460 --> 06:52.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: We were one of, what, two?
[06:52.670 --> 06:52.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Three?
[06:53.380 --> 06:53.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[06:54.280 --> 06:57.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: That were pulled over for additional scrutiny.
[06:58.350 --> 07:00.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they asked us all kinds of questions.
[07:00.840 --> 07:03.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, Mike, you saw them doing things to my luggage that I didn't see.
[07:03.880 --> 07:07.580]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they were very thorough in poking through the luggage.
[07:08.420 --> 07:10.230]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're just the suspicious types.
[07:10.420 --> 07:10.850]  [SPEAKER_06]: What can I say?
[07:10.920 --> 07:13.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they were touching my phones, right?
[07:13.480 --> 07:14.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: What did they do to my phones?
[07:14.440 --> 07:21.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: They swabbed your phones with some kind of swab and took the swabs back into their building for further analysis.
[07:21.780 --> 07:26.350]  [SPEAKER_14]: They kept asking us if we knew anybody around here, how long we were going to stay for.
[07:26.610 --> 07:28.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: We promised we were going to leave at some point.
[07:28.760 --> 07:36.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: Well, you'll notice I said that they did this to your phones, and they didn't swab my phone because it was in my pocket, and they didn't really ask me what was in my pocket.
[07:36.200 --> 07:36.790]  [SPEAKER_01]: I have a question.
[07:37.640 --> 07:37.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[07:37.940 --> 07:41.660]  [SPEAKER_01]: How many telephones did you have on you or that were swabbed?
[07:41.730 --> 07:44.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, I just have the two that I carry with me at all times.
[07:44.140 --> 07:49.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: But Mike had his phone, and they asked me which phone is whose, and I said they're both mine.
[07:49.080 --> 07:53.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: What they didn't do was ask Mike, well, do you have a phone too, and might that phone be on your person?
[07:53.920 --> 07:55.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: You had a suspicious number of phones.
[07:55.880 --> 07:56.110]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'm sorry?
[07:56.460 --> 07:57.920]  [SPEAKER_06]: You had a suspicious number of phones.
[07:58.100 --> 07:59.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's why I got pulled over, though.
[08:00.100 --> 08:02.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, but that's why they were swabbed.
[08:02.200 --> 08:04.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: My guess is that they saw more than one phone.
[08:04.940 --> 08:12.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: They figured one might be an improvised explosive device, and they swabbed it for traces of nitrogen-based compounds.
[08:12.340 --> 08:19.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, Jim, your position is that if you carry two phones, that the second phone is likely, in their eyes anyway, going to be a suspicious device.
[08:19.900 --> 08:27.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think we should send someone to Canada with a whole batch of phones and hidden cameras and watch all hell break loose.
[08:27.500 --> 08:32.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: That might be a worthwhile pursuit, but I don't really know at this point.
[08:32.160 --> 08:34.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: What we did do was we watched what they were doing.
[08:34.820 --> 08:37.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did we bring that piece of paper up with all the little notations?
[08:37.760 --> 08:38.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, we didn't.
[08:38.500 --> 08:38.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[08:38.920 --> 08:41.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we'll have a piece of paper where they wrote down certain things.
[08:41.740 --> 08:46.290]  [SPEAKER_14]: They made us go into this other building where we were interrogated by a woman.
[08:46.620 --> 08:48.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe interrogation is a bit of a strong term.
[08:48.560 --> 08:55.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: She looked over her glasses at us and asked us some questions such as, Have you ever been in this country before?
[08:56.520 --> 08:58.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: When was the last time you were in this country?
[08:58.860 --> 09:00.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Why did you come back to this country?
[09:01.620 --> 09:03.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Don't you want to go to another country?
[09:03.220 --> 09:03.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, things like that.
[09:04.600 --> 09:08.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: And after all of that, she gave us a piece of paper, and we walked all the way back to where the car was.
[09:09.460 --> 09:11.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: And there were certain things written down on that piece of paper.
[09:11.740 --> 09:14.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Which we will reveal to the world when we find a piece of paper.
[09:15.000 --> 09:16.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: That we copied it onto.
[09:16.460 --> 09:18.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Just to clarify, the woman worked for immigration.
[09:19.240 --> 09:21.040]  [SPEAKER_04]: The searchers worked for customs.
[09:21.340 --> 09:22.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: But you were already in Canada.
[09:22.900 --> 09:25.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: What, weren't you just traveling from one part of Canada to another?
[09:25.660 --> 09:26.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, no, no, no.
[09:26.560 --> 09:28.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: We had arrived from Maine.
[09:28.020 --> 09:28.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ah, really.
[09:28.440 --> 09:29.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we had arrived on the ferry.
[09:29.780 --> 09:31.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we were in Yarmouth at that point.
[09:31.340 --> 09:31.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: I see.
[09:31.800 --> 09:32.040]  [SPEAKER_12]: Yeah.
[09:32.140 --> 09:35.980]  [SPEAKER_12]: Emmanuel, doesn't this differ from your experiences before crossing that border?
[09:36.140 --> 09:40.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: That generally you only experienced problems passing into the U.S.
[09:40.320 --> 09:41.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: as opposed to into Canada?
[09:42.020 --> 09:42.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[09:42.280 --> 09:50.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, that's what's odd, Bernie, is that in the past, if you listen to archives of this program in the past, you will notice that I always had trouble coming into the United States.
[09:50.900 --> 09:53.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: One time at the Canadian border, several times coming over from Europe.
[09:53.980 --> 10:01.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now it seems almost every time I go to Canada, in fact, the last three times in a row over the last two years, I've been picked out and interrogated.
[10:02.020 --> 10:07.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, last time we had trouble coming back from Canada, too, but only because of certain suspicious items in the trunk.
[10:08.060 --> 10:08.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Mm-hmm.
[10:08.980 --> 10:09.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, uh...
[10:09.640 --> 10:10.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, that's true, yeah.
[10:10.940 --> 10:11.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[10:11.020 --> 10:13.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: We did get that cranky border guy.
[10:14.180 --> 10:14.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: It was like four in the morning.
[10:15.140 --> 10:17.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: We were carrying satellite equipment back from Canada.
[10:18.680 --> 10:19.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's true, yeah.
[10:20.140 --> 10:27.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, um, somehow I feel that's different because, uh, we were suspicious at that point because we were doing something that was kind of crazy.
[10:27.280 --> 10:32.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: We were carrying equipment back into the States, supposedly to send it back to Canada, so he got a little confused by that.
[10:32.860 --> 10:40.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: In this particular case, as in the other ones going into Canada, though, we were picked out before anything suspicious was found, just based, I guess, on the way we look.
[10:41.200 --> 10:41.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Right.
[10:41.960 --> 10:48.080]  [SPEAKER_06]: All right, I hate to interrupt you, but, um, tonight's actually a fundraising night, um, and we've got several premiums we're offering.
[10:48.580 --> 10:52.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you know, as, as you all know, WBAI relies on the support of the listeners.
[10:53.140 --> 10:54.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's public radio.
[10:54.260 --> 11:00.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, and tonight we're offering, um, an off-the-hook t-shirt, um, for a pledge of $50.
[11:01.500 --> 11:06.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, we have, uh, the WBAI premiums, um, which WBAI has t-shirts.
[11:06.780 --> 11:08.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, that's for a pledge of $65.
[11:09.560 --> 11:14.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you can get, uh, the WBAI gold package, which is a cap, a mug, uh, and a tote bag.
[11:15.080 --> 11:17.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, that is $125.
[11:18.100 --> 11:19.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, you can get the baseball cap by itself.
[11:19.960 --> 11:22.900]  [SPEAKER_06]: That's for a pledge of $65, and the mug is also a pledge of $65.
[11:23.240 --> 11:24.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: And a tote bag.
[11:24.020 --> 11:24.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Red Pack, I have a question.
[11:24.940 --> 11:25.080]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[11:25.580 --> 11:29.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: What must one do to obtain these, these wonderful premiums?
[11:31.180 --> 11:34.260]  [SPEAKER_03]: Call 212-209-2950.
[11:35.080 --> 11:36.500]  [SPEAKER_03]: That, that's my alternate accent.
[11:36.620 --> 11:37.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: That doesn't sound like your voice.
[11:38.640 --> 11:39.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: Red Hack's been practicing.
[11:40.120 --> 11:40.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[11:40.580 --> 11:42.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they sound just like, uh, like, like Ken there.
[11:43.160 --> 11:52.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: And Ken, I believe, is our, uh, is our studio, uh, liaison there, who's going to tell us, uh, all kinds of things relating to the radio station as far as, uh, you know, premiums if, uh, we get more of them.
[11:53.640 --> 11:55.280]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[11:55.280 --> 11:55.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: 212-209-2950.
[11:55.720 --> 12:02.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: You call that number, and one of the volunteers will answer, and, uh, you can tell them which premium you want.
[12:02.620 --> 12:15.080]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, if you become a member of the station, you get to vote for the local station board, and you get all kinds of incendiary literature from the various sides who are, uh, battling one another for, uh, membership on this board.
[12:15.260 --> 12:15.820]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, uh...
[12:15.820 --> 12:17.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: That alone is worth the membership.
[12:17.500 --> 12:17.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[12:17.640 --> 12:20.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you have the right frame of mind, it is.
[12:20.380 --> 12:22.380]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you have the wrong frame of mind, it can be depressing.
[12:22.500 --> 12:23.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: If you have the right frame of mind, it's hilarious.
[12:24.280 --> 12:37.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: I encourage all Republican hackers who have called up the last two or three shows to, to pledge, so that we can, we can surreptitiously infiltrate the WBI and, and exert our will on it for a change.
[12:37.260 --> 12:37.820]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, only kidding.
[12:38.040 --> 12:39.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: You can run for the board.
[12:39.760 --> 12:44.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Any of those Republican, uh, hackers who called can run for the local station board.
[12:44.020 --> 12:45.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: Wait, wait, wait, wait.
[12:45.140 --> 12:49.780]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't think we should be specifically encouraging Republican hackers to run for the board.
[12:50.200 --> 12:54.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: I encourage anybody to run for the board, because, uh, you know, we, we, we need diversity.
[12:54.880 --> 12:56.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: We need people who care.
[12:56.400 --> 13:01.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: As long as you care about the radio station, that's, that's, that's as much prerequisite as I can think of that, that matters.
[13:02.260 --> 13:08.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know we do have a lot of right-wing people that support what we do, so that's not necessarily the issue here.
[13:08.740 --> 13:12.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: What is the issue of people that don't like the fact that the radio station is here?
[13:12.580 --> 13:19.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: They don't like the fact that people are speaking freely and saying things that, uh, run counter to corporate America.
[13:20.080 --> 13:23.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: And there are people like that in, in all different camps.
[13:23.640 --> 13:28.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they are the true enemies of, uh, free speech, of radio stations like WBAI.
[13:28.300 --> 13:38.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: So if, if you find yourself somebody who, uh, is loath to express those kind of views, you're probably somebody who could, uh, who could help us out by pledging, by being a part of the radio station.
[13:38.820 --> 13:44.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I believe, uh, Ken, is it true that, uh, pledges of $25 or more people can, uh, can, can vote?
[13:44.780 --> 13:45.680]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, absolutely.
[13:46.060 --> 13:49.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: $25, you can vote and you would get all that wonderful literature.
[13:49.980 --> 14:03.660]  [SPEAKER_03]: And, uh, uh, it's an interesting experience comparing because the, there's various factions and there's various voting blocks and, and they're sniping at one another and calling one another all manner of names.
[14:03.960 --> 14:04.700]  [SPEAKER_03]: It's, it's amazing.
[14:05.520 --> 14:08.200]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, Ken, is the, is this voting done electronically by any chance?
[14:08.660 --> 14:12.300]  [SPEAKER_03]: Uh, not yet.
[14:12.680 --> 14:22.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: No, it is done, it is done with a piece of paper and marking boxes, which, which, as I've said many times on the show, is, is, uh, a very reliable way of voting.
[14:22.480 --> 14:26.300]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, if I could just add a couple more premiums that are being offered tonight.
[14:26.300 --> 14:28.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: We have, uh, three books that are being offered.
[14:28.540 --> 14:32.780]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, one is the State of the World, 2004, that's by the World Watch Institute.
[14:33.040 --> 14:36.860]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the Buying of the President, 2004, uh, by Charles Lewis.
[14:37.520 --> 14:41.340]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, those, uh, are both, uh, premiums for a pledge of $100.
[14:43.000 --> 14:46.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, War on Globalization by M.
[14:46.720 --> 14:49.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Chasidowski for a pledge of, uh, $75.
[14:50.540 --> 14:54.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-209-2950 is the number to call the pledge.
[14:54.420 --> 14:58.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I should also point out that, uh, every pledge, uh, was it 25 and above?
[14:58.100 --> 14:59.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: You'll get an off-the-hook t-shirt?
[14:59.820 --> 15:00.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: 50.
[15:00.300 --> 15:00.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: 50.
[15:00.720 --> 15:01.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm sorry.
[15:01.480 --> 15:02.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: What was I thinking?
[15:02.460 --> 15:03.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: 50 and above.
[15:04.000 --> 15:04.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, okay.
[15:04.720 --> 15:06.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, 25 and above, you get the, the voting rights.
[15:07.420 --> 15:07.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes.
[15:07.640 --> 15:11.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, for another 25, not only do you get the voting rights, you get the t-shirt.
[15:11.320 --> 15:12.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, you can, you can wear while you vote.
[15:13.000 --> 15:18.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: There, there are plenty of commercial interests who, who, who, who would all, who would like to see the station gone because they'd like to own the airwaves.
[15:18.880 --> 15:23.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so it's important that, that people support the station and keep programming like this on the air.
[15:24.180 --> 15:24.500]  [SPEAKER_06]: Absolutely.
[15:24.960 --> 15:27.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, the, uh, the Democratic Convention is occurring right now.
[15:27.820 --> 15:30.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: In fact, we're going to have, uh, some coverage of that later on tonight, I believe.
[15:31.400 --> 15:34.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, but, uh, have you guys been watching it, following what's been going on?
[15:34.900 --> 15:35.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: I've watched some of it.
[15:36.160 --> 15:36.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: A little.
[15:36.840 --> 15:36.960]  Yeah.
[15:36.960 --> 15:39.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's, uh, it's interesting.
[15:39.980 --> 15:46.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: I've been trying to, trying to watch what's going on in the protest pen, but it doesn't seem to be covered very well.
[15:46.300 --> 15:48.680]  [SPEAKER_06]: It's so hard to see from the, from the media section.
[15:48.680 --> 15:55.260]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, with the double chain-link fences and the black meshing, uh, you know, how, how would anyone actually see it?
[15:55.400 --> 15:58.340]  [SPEAKER_01]: Even, even the protesters are pretty much avoiding the protest pen.
[15:58.480 --> 16:05.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: The only protesters actually in the protest pen were those protesting the existence of the protest pen, believe it or not.
[16:05.200 --> 16:06.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Where, where do you protest that?
[16:06.960 --> 16:12.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, they, they actually dressed up as, as the, the Abu Ghraib, uh, slash iPod icon.
[16:13.320 --> 16:17.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: The man with the black hood on his head and the, uh, the, the strange shift.
[16:18.460 --> 16:19.340]  [SPEAKER_07]: Orange jumpsuits?
[16:19.820 --> 16:20.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.
[16:20.460 --> 16:22.900]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's a dark shift, sort of like a poncho.
[16:23.380 --> 16:23.540]  [SPEAKER_01]: Ah.
[16:23.540 --> 16:27.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: And the black hood on the head, the guy standing with his arms extended.
[16:27.740 --> 16:28.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember that picture?
[16:28.860 --> 16:29.860]  [SPEAKER_12]: Wearing the iPod.
[16:30.160 --> 16:30.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: I saw.
[16:30.620 --> 16:33.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: And, yes, it later became a famous iPod, uh, parody.
[16:34.360 --> 16:34.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: I saw.
[16:34.840 --> 16:36.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: But there were a whole bunch of people dressed as that.
[16:36.960 --> 16:47.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: They were the only people to actually go into the protest pen, which is across the street on the back end of the fleet center, underneath an, I believe it's an elevated subway, it might be an elevated highway.
[16:47.660 --> 16:49.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, invisible to the world.
[16:49.040 --> 16:54.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, but they were there to protest the fact that protesters would be forced to be in that pen, away from everything.
[16:55.200 --> 16:56.180]  [SPEAKER_01]: And where were the protesters?
[16:56.460 --> 17:01.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, other protesters were on a march the day before the convention walking past the pen.
[17:01.240 --> 17:05.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, other protesters were on Boston Commons, uh, a few other places.
[17:05.680 --> 17:08.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: But apparently everybody is avoiding the pen as a protest.
[17:09.160 --> 17:12.710]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, I mean, why would, I mean, you, you can't, you wouldn't be seen in the pen.
[17:13.080 --> 17:15.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's barbed wire around the top of the pen.
[17:15.140 --> 17:18.320]  [SPEAKER_06]: The only, the razor wire, the only razor wire at the entire convention.
[17:18.540 --> 17:22.010]  [SPEAKER_06]: I saw a clever, um, sign, though, uh, that someone was holding.
[17:22.120 --> 17:24.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: There, there are pictures online of the protest pen.
[17:24.760 --> 17:30.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: And, um, their sign said, terrorists, uh, are loose while patriots are caged.
[17:30.620 --> 17:32.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: So I thought that was kind of clever.
[17:32.660 --> 17:33.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's, uh, that's interesting.
[17:34.000 --> 17:35.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: I've heard a few reports.
[17:35.040 --> 17:36.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're able to listen to radio.
[17:36.100 --> 17:37.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: They have radio up here.
[17:37.970 --> 17:43.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we're able to, uh, uh, to hear some of the reports of what's going on, uh, as far as protest.
[17:44.260 --> 17:48.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: So far, the protests seem to be, what do exist, seem to be rather small.
[17:48.440 --> 17:52.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think, uh, Mike, 3,000 was a number we saw of, of, of protesters yesterday.
[17:52.920 --> 17:54.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: There was a, a march a few days ago.
[17:54.720 --> 17:55.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: Two days ago.
[17:56.320 --> 17:58.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and, uh, about 3,000 people showed up.
[17:58.560 --> 18:19.960]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I think the big event has been the Boston Social Forum, where they've been, uh, kind of holding, you know, workshops and discussions and all that on, uh, creating alternatives to the, uh, allegedly democratic process and, uh, you know, creating, creating actually democratic alternatives to the democratic party.
[18:20.160 --> 18:38.740]  [SPEAKER_12]: I believe there was some, uh, some controversy, too, about, uh, the veracity of a claim that, uh, various law enforcement agencies were making, that protesters were planning, or activists, or protesters were planning on using explosive devices on media vehicles.
[18:39.360 --> 18:40.900]  [SPEAKER_12]: Remember hearing anything about that?
[18:41.140 --> 18:46.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, these, um, there, there was a group, uh, the, uh, what's the black, uh, what were they called again?
[18:46.480 --> 18:46.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Black Bloc?
[18:47.120 --> 18:48.280]  [SPEAKER_04]: Black Tea Society.
[18:48.620 --> 18:48.900]  [SPEAKER_04]: The Black Tea Society.
[18:48.900 --> 18:50.260]  [SPEAKER_04]: But I think this is a different story.
[18:50.620 --> 18:56.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, from what I've heard, there's, uh, there's concerns that an anarchist group is going to target mass media.
[18:57.200 --> 18:59.560]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just find that whole thing really, really humorous.
[18:59.620 --> 19:07.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: But it shows that the media themselves are getting in on this whole, uh, paranoia act and saying, well, who would, uh, who would, uh, dislike us the most?
[19:07.480 --> 19:09.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Probably those, those darn anarchists.
[19:09.160 --> 19:10.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: And what if they had power?
[19:10.780 --> 19:11.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: They could really cause problems.
[19:12.460 --> 19:20.380]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I heard, uh, I heard a CNN reporter say, basically, without quoting anyone, she said that the anarchists were planning on doing this.
[19:20.380 --> 19:25.700]  [SPEAKER_12]: And I thought that was pretty interesting, since he didn't quote any sources or offer any evidence.
[19:26.020 --> 19:31.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, because odds are probably some anarchist somewhere in the world, uh, is, uh, wishing to do this.
[19:32.120 --> 19:38.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, fine, that doesn't prove anything as far as, uh, there's going to be, uh, there's going to be a, some kind of organized conspiracy to do anything.
[19:39.220 --> 19:40.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, the whole thing is just, uh, really silly.
[19:40.940 --> 19:47.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think what's going to come out of this, people, I've, I've already heard, uh, some commentators stating this, that it looks like complete overkill.
[19:48.140 --> 19:57.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, it looks like people will, will say, you know, we didn't need all this security, but do you honestly think that that means they're ever going to conclude we shouldn't do it this way in the future?
[19:57.160 --> 20:02.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think what they'll, what they'll get out of this, they'll look at Boston and they'll say, you know what, nothing bad happened in Boston.
[20:02.360 --> 20:03.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: There were no protests.
[20:03.860 --> 20:09.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, there was nothing that caused any kind of problem whatsoever, except for the fact that we came in and closed off all the streets.
[20:09.960 --> 20:11.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, so let's do it that way in New York.
[20:12.040 --> 20:12.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: It works.
[20:12.800 --> 20:13.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: It works.
[20:13.560 --> 20:14.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: It works.
[20:14.280 --> 20:15.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: So let's, let's do it that way.
[20:15.140 --> 20:19.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm not so convinced, and I think New York is going to be a, a completely different kettle of fish.
[20:19.420 --> 20:28.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Keep in mind, uh, the Democratic Convention, uh, these are the people that could conceivably, in fact, you know, I dare say they're the only people that could conceivably get Bush out of power.
[20:28.790 --> 20:35.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, so I think most of the protesters are going to be focusing on Bush, on the Republicans, on New York.
[20:36.590 --> 20:42.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: So I, I, I would not be misled by the fact that there were few and far between protests in Boston.
[20:42.860 --> 20:44.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, New York is going to be a completely different story.
[20:45.180 --> 20:53.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, it's been predicted, and I'm just going to say that, take that with a grain of salt, because, you know, predictions are predictions, that there'll be a quarter of a million protesters, uh, at the RNC.
[20:54.180 --> 20:56.960]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, you know, you never know with these sort of things, so.
[20:57.320 --> 20:58.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that your own prediction, or is that coming from the news?
[20:58.860 --> 21:00.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, it was from some source.
[21:00.960 --> 21:01.880]  [SPEAKER_06]: I can't quote it right now.
[21:01.880 --> 21:06.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, you know, uh, there, there are all kinds, is there a plan for a protest, Penn?
[21:06.620 --> 21:07.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is that the deal in New York City?
[21:07.780 --> 21:09.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: There's supposed to be free speech zones.
[21:10.320 --> 21:10.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Free speech zones.
[21:10.620 --> 21:12.220]  [SPEAKER_06]: But, uh, last I checked, United...
[21:12.220 --> 21:13.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: No free speech anywhere else.
[21:13.600 --> 21:19.020]  [SPEAKER_06]: United for Peace and Justice was going to have a march past, um, the Madison Square Garden on 7th Avenue, so.
[21:19.160 --> 21:20.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: On 7th Avenue?
[21:20.280 --> 21:21.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think that's what they wanted to do.
[21:21.820 --> 21:23.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, they, I think...
[21:23.140 --> 21:23.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: They acquiesced.
[21:23.660 --> 21:24.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: I think they...
[21:24.520 --> 21:26.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: Last I heard it was going to be on the West Side Highway.
[21:26.960 --> 21:41.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they acquiesced to the, the city plan, the compromise city plan, which was essentially, uh, starting a bit south, heading north on 7th Avenue, heading west on 34th, heading over to the West Side Highway, heading south to Chambers Street, and then loudly,
[21:41.460 --> 21:44.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: uh, protesting, uh, miles away at Chambers Street.
[21:44.720 --> 21:54.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, last week I talked about, uh, uh, possible alternate ways of protesting, one of which is just to go into Central Park yourself, which is where they wanted to have it originally, in the, uh, in the Great Lawn.
[21:54.240 --> 21:54.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's so bad.
[21:54.740 --> 22:00.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, and hold your own protest sign, and, uh, how could they possibly stop people from just going on their own and protesting in that way?
[22:01.000 --> 22:01.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's one thing.
[22:02.040 --> 22:05.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, I was talking with Mitch last week, and he came up with a, with a brilliant idea.
[22:05.180 --> 22:05.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is he, is he in the studio?
[22:06.200 --> 22:06.480]  [SPEAKER_05]: Hello.
[22:06.740 --> 22:07.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: Still here.
[22:07.480 --> 22:08.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: You want to tell us this idea?
[22:08.420 --> 22:08.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[22:08.540 --> 22:09.200]  [SPEAKER_05]: Because it's really, really good.
[22:09.300 --> 22:19.260]  [SPEAKER_05]: Our idea was to enter the subway with a sign at Times Square, and just take, take the 1, 2, 3, or 9 train down one stop to Penn Station, and come out of the subway with your sign.
[22:19.480 --> 22:27.060]  [SPEAKER_05]: There could be hundreds of people who just enter the subway at Times Square and come out right at Penn Station, right in the middle of everything with their signs.
[22:27.260 --> 22:30.240]  [SPEAKER_05]: And we could just have another march going right back up to Times Square.
[22:30.340 --> 22:32.700]  [SPEAKER_05]: It could be a, a cycle of people with signs.
[22:32.940 --> 22:34.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: And there should be enough people to do that.
[22:34.760 --> 22:39.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: And that the beauty of this is that when you emerge at Penn Station, you are right in the middle of the zone.
[22:40.180 --> 22:42.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: You cannot get inside there except by subway.
[22:43.220 --> 22:54.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: So imagine all these protesters, a string of protesters, hundreds, thousands, just pouring out of the zone and being, you know, put back into the street where they go right back uptown and come down again and do the exact same thing.
[22:54.960 --> 22:56.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: It could happen all week long.
[22:56.340 --> 22:59.560]  [SPEAKER_05]: They're supposed to have two exits at Penn Station open.
[22:59.880 --> 23:00.500]  [SPEAKER_05]: So you're right there.
[23:00.500 --> 23:02.380]  [SPEAKER_01]: It would be pretty cheap with an unlimited MetroCard.
[23:02.740 --> 23:02.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[23:03.280 --> 23:11.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: And speaking, speaking of democracy, just want to mention that we have $300 pledged so far to our, to our station, WBAI.
[23:11.680 --> 23:18.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you'd like to pledge, uh, the number to call is 212-209-2950.
[23:18.540 --> 23:31.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we're offering the extra large size off the hook t-shirt for a pledge of $50 or more and assorted other stuff that you can ask the, uh, pledge volunteers for details on.
[23:31.500 --> 23:36.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and keep in mind that your pledge, you get more t-shirt for your, uh, pledge dollar.
[23:37.160 --> 23:40.800]  [SPEAKER_01]: If you ask for our t-shirt, the WBAI t-shirts are for $65.
[23:40.800 --> 23:41.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: Dollies.
[23:42.000 --> 23:42.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: But you'll get both.
[23:43.060 --> 23:45.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: If you pledge $65, you'll get theirs and you'll get ours.
[23:45.200 --> 23:45.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, really?
[23:45.360 --> 23:46.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because everybody over $50 will get ours.
[23:47.040 --> 23:47.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
[23:47.700 --> 23:50.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: So it's, uh, a lot of shirt for your, for your money there.
[23:50.180 --> 23:54.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, uh, while your, your finger is poised over the button wondering, should I actually make this phone call?
[23:54.400 --> 24:09.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Ask yourself, tune around the dial, both AM and FM, and see if you can find any other discussions of this sort where people are just freely speaking their minds and, uh, uh, opening up the phone lines to other people that do the same about issues that affect all of us.
[24:09.140 --> 24:18.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know, there, there are other stations that discuss this kind of thing, but nearly all of them are, uh, are run by people with a very specific, um, goal and agenda.
[24:18.800 --> 24:20.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, and it's not open.
[24:21.060 --> 24:23.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's not open to, to your input.
[24:23.960 --> 24:28.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, it's also sponsored, sponsored by corporations, the same corporations that we criticize.
[24:29.600 --> 24:31.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, of course, you don't have that freedom.
[24:31.780 --> 24:37.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can't just, uh, go out there and, and tear them down because if you do that, well, they won't give you money and then you don't have a show.
[24:38.380 --> 24:40.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: In our case, you're the show.
[24:40.240 --> 24:40.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're the sponsors.
[24:41.040 --> 24:42.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're the people that keep us on the air.
[24:42.680 --> 24:49.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's why 212-209-2950 is the number we'd really like you to call now and, uh, show the support for, uh, for the radio station.
[24:50.020 --> 24:50.140]  Yeah.
[24:50.940 --> 25:02.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, Emmanuel, about the Republican National Convention coming up, um, I think you were talking maybe last week or asking if anyone was going to, is, was volunteering there who could be inside it during the RNC?
[25:02.680 --> 25:03.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Oh, yes.
[25:03.280 --> 25:04.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: Get us in there.
[25:04.320 --> 25:08.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: I know someone who has signed up and gone to the volunteer meetings.
[25:08.240 --> 25:15.440]  [SPEAKER_06]: He, he doesn't like Bush or the Republicans, but he's volunteered, uh, for the RNC just to get inside and see what it's all about.
[25:15.820 --> 25:21.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Um, so I could maybe ask him to find out about, maybe write something for us or, you know, come in or something.
[25:21.820 --> 25:22.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, that, that, that would, that would be great.
[25:22.640 --> 25:26.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, now the requirement, it's not a prerequisite that people don't like Bush or anything like that.
[25:27.060 --> 25:34.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're not going to go in there and, and single-handedly, you know, tear the place down or anything like that, but we are going to go in there one way or another.
[25:34.780 --> 25:36.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: That sounds like a threat, but, uh, I didn't mean it that way.
[25:36.860 --> 25:40.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, we're going to attempt to, to infiltrate one way or another.
[25:40.740 --> 25:52.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I think that's a good thing to do so that we can report back to the people in much the same way that we report things that we see when we're traveling or when we're just in the city, uh, ways that our listeners can appreciate things that might not be,
[25:52.580 --> 25:54.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: be seen or understood otherwise.
[25:54.160 --> 26:00.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe we'll take pictures of, of, uh, of technical things that you'll never see in a newspaper or on a TV station.
[26:00.880 --> 26:03.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, just basically the hacker perspective.
[26:03.340 --> 26:05.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: And I know people will never understand that.
[26:05.040 --> 26:08.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: The people on the inside will never understand that that's a good thing and not a threat.
[26:08.960 --> 26:10.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, uh, again, the appeal goes out.
[26:10.360 --> 26:17.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: If people have a way of getting in there since they did not accept our, our application as, as media, apparently we're not bonafide media enough.
[26:17.700 --> 26:18.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're not special enough.
[26:18.920 --> 26:19.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're not special enough.
[26:20.300 --> 26:22.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, we have to figure out other ways to do that.
[26:22.440 --> 26:23.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, there's a letter we got.
[26:23.700 --> 26:25.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'd like to read this letter from one of our listeners.
[26:25.620 --> 26:26.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: We've gotten a few.
[26:26.180 --> 26:27.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, I was at Hope.
[26:27.420 --> 26:28.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: I like the part where Bernie S.
[26:28.460 --> 26:33.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: social engineered his way to have the baggage people at Amtrak let him get his package when it was closed.
[26:33.260 --> 26:34.320]  [SPEAKER_14]: Nice job, Bernie, by the way.
[26:35.000 --> 26:42.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, I heard your, your show last week and heard of how one of your guests was denied a magazine press, uh, pass to the Republican convention.
[26:42.280 --> 26:44.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, that was us that was denied the press pass.
[26:44.500 --> 26:46.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Maybe you guys can do just what Bernie S.
[26:46.320 --> 26:48.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: did with the baggage people and get into the convention that way.
[26:48.880 --> 26:49.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: What do you think, Bernie?
[26:49.920 --> 26:57.820]  [SPEAKER_12]: Um, I don't think my, my faux security, uh, outfit would, would fly in the face, in the face of the secret service.
[26:58.380 --> 27:03.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, weren't they offering FedEx uniforms on eBay not too long ago?
[27:03.220 --> 27:07.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you think we could, uh, get one of those and just, uh, walk in and say, have we have a package here?
[27:08.280 --> 27:09.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, you know, they left FedEx into everything.
[27:10.620 --> 27:11.580]  [SPEAKER_12]: That's very possible.
[27:11.740 --> 27:18.260]  [SPEAKER_12]: I don't know if that would classify as mail, as mail fraud or not, but it's, uh, worth trying for someone who has more courage than I.
[27:18.260 --> 27:25.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, I, I, I strongly, I strongly think that people shouldn't try that because you'll see the inside of all kinds of institutions over, over that week, I'm sure.
[27:26.220 --> 27:28.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, probably even talking about this is going to get us in trouble.
[27:29.240 --> 27:39.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Speaking of conventions, uh, I, nobody mentioned yet that, uh, the Al Jazeera, Al Jazeera, uh, news booth at the, uh, Democratic National Convention was censored.
[27:39.600 --> 27:48.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: They had, uh, their illuminated sign, uh, unlike all the other illuminated signs and all the other news organization booths was switched off.
[27:48.260 --> 27:51.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: Uh, and they couldn't get it back on again.
[27:51.180 --> 27:52.340]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it wasn't a technical problem.
[27:53.120 --> 28:02.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: I, I heard, uh, uh, uh, a radio person in Boston talking about this, actually, uh, he had noticed it the first night that Al Jazeera was there right in the, in the center of things.
[28:02.640 --> 28:08.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: And he said he couldn't imagine that the Democrats would want to see that all week long.
[28:08.000 --> 28:11.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: Al Jazeera are right there on every shot of, of the convention.
[28:11.440 --> 28:15.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: So he was certain that they would try and do something to make sure that didn't happen again.
[28:15.700 --> 28:17.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: And sure enough, that is what happened.
[28:18.040 --> 28:26.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Um, I would, I would wish that they would have enough guts to actually say, you know what, it's fine to have international media of all sorts here.
[28:26.640 --> 28:43.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: And in fact, we're going to keep the international media, the independent media right here in the center, just so you can see how diverse and how many different groups of people, uh, we are completely open to communicating with Al Jazeera, uh, all kinds of foreign networks,
[28:43.760 --> 28:50.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: all kinds of IMC type networks and the, the major networks, you know what, they can figure out a way to get the access because they already have all the power.
[28:50.760 --> 28:54.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: They don't need to be right up there in the center with their, with their logos and banners and things like that.
[28:54.880 --> 28:56.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's, let's see some other people.
[28:56.320 --> 29:00.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: I think you're making a serious mistake here and you're assuming that the Democrats have any guts at all.
[29:01.000 --> 29:02.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: I said, I would have liked to have seen it.
[29:02.460 --> 29:04.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: I didn't say I expected for a second to see it.
[29:04.460 --> 29:07.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: I would like to see somebody have that kind of, you know, that kind of guts.
[29:07.500 --> 29:13.680]  [SPEAKER_04]: As we know, the independent media center was, was like referred to the secret service when they tried even to attend a press conference.
[29:13.900 --> 29:17.600]  [SPEAKER_04]: So I don't think, uh, we have much hope for this vision.
[29:17.920 --> 29:34.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's noteworthy that, uh, Al Jazeera is, uh, covering live on television, uh, the, uh, DNC conference, uh, four hours a night live, uh, unlike all the commercial, uh, US, uh, TV media, which you're only covering at one hour a night.
[29:34.420 --> 29:42.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: So they're giving four times, they're doing, giving more, Al Jazeera is covering this live on television more than ABC, CBS, and NBC combined.
[29:42.780 --> 29:43.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: That is pretty amazing.
[29:44.300 --> 29:47.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Of course, C-SPAN is really the place, uh, to, to watch all of it.
[29:47.900 --> 29:50.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, it starts, I think, at four o'clock in the afternoon and runs well into the night.
[29:51.020 --> 29:54.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, and of course, you don't have any idiots giving you commentary, telling you what you're seeing.
[29:56.780 --> 30:01.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're listening to Off the Hook on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM.
[30:02.300 --> 30:06.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, and the phone number to call to pledge your support, 212-209-2950.
[30:06.880 --> 30:21.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: If, uh, you're interested in becoming a part of the radio station, remember, for $25 and more, you become a member, a voting member, who can actually help determine the direction the station goes and how it's run and all kinds of things like that, keep it from falling into,
[30:21.280 --> 30:24.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: uh, the wrong hands, as it almost did a few years ago.
[30:24.940 --> 30:27.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, $25 and above, you'll get that.
[30:27.200 --> 30:35.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: And, uh, $50 and above, you'll get an Off the Hook t-shirt, and there's all kinds of other premiums, which we're going to very quickly go over here.
[30:35.400 --> 30:53.840]  [SPEAKER_06]: Uh, the WBAI premiums, uh, that are being offered are, um, t-shirts, um, in any size, uh, for, uh, $65, uh, baseball cap is also $65, the mug and, and the tote bag are $65, or for pledge $65, and with all those pledges, you also get the Off the Hook t-shirt,
[30:54.340 --> 31:12.380]  [SPEAKER_06]: um, or if you want, uh, all four of those things, uh, for a pledge of $125, you get those, and the Off the Hook t-shirt, uh, there are also, uh, three books, uh, the State of the World 2004, uh, and the Buying of the Present 2004, those are, uh, for a pledge of $100 for each one of those.
[31:13.440 --> 31:17.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: Uh, and the number is 212-209-2950.
[31:17.480 --> 31:17.760]  [SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[31:18.020 --> 31:19.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: There's two callers so far.
[31:19.920 --> 31:23.360]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's, we have more volunteers than two, so you can still call in.
[31:23.680 --> 31:24.200]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's right.
[31:24.360 --> 31:25.880]  [SPEAKER_03]: And it's tax deductible as well.
[31:26.620 --> 31:29.600]  [SPEAKER_03]: So you can, you can get your Off the Hook t-shirt tax deductible.
[31:29.780 --> 31:30.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it feels great, too.
[31:30.880 --> 31:42.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: It feels great to actually make that call and, uh, know that you're helping out, that your voice does matter, it does count, because that's how the station has been built up over the years by a bunch of individuals, not a bunch of corporations, a bunch of individual people just like you,
[31:42.660 --> 31:43.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: making that phone call.
[31:44.000 --> 31:54.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: When you go down that phone line, many people will have been there before you, have gone down that same path, and, uh, made that phone call, and felt great for doing it, and helped us get to the stage where we were today.
[31:55.570 --> 31:57.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-209-2950.
[31:58.620 --> 32:01.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: Volunteers also are so friendly, it's worth calling just to talk to them.
[32:02.080 --> 32:16.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, we often spend many hours afterwards just talking to them after we, we leave the station, or leave the show, uh, because they're, they're, they're great people just to, uh, to chill with and talk to, uh, and you can, uh, you can have, uh, a little bit of that joy just by calling up and talking to them on the phone.
[32:16.420 --> 32:26.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: They'll, uh, they'll help you find other premiums, too, because there's all kinds of things that are being offered, uh, so if what we've mentioned is not quite to your liking, there's, I'm sure there's something else that will be, but most importantly,
[32:26.800 --> 32:34.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: it's not the premiums you should be calling for, I say this quite a bit, the real reason that you should be calling is simply because you want to support the radio station.
[32:34.180 --> 32:42.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is your voice, your way of sponsoring us, and making sure that we're there in the future to talk about whatever it is that's going to happen.
[32:42.080 --> 32:42.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Because you know what?
[32:42.780 --> 32:44.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: A lot of things are going to be happening in the future.
[32:44.760 --> 32:46.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: This is one heck of a year happening right now.
[32:47.980 --> 32:53.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: And imagine, just imagine, if you will, Bush winning, and four more years of Bush.
[32:53.380 --> 32:56.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: What kind of things do you think will happen in those four years?
[32:56.240 --> 32:58.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're going to want a radio station like WBAI around.
[32:58.680 --> 33:05.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: And even if Kerry gets in, I'm sure there's going to be all kinds of things happening, too, that the authorities won't want us to be reporting on.
[33:05.300 --> 33:08.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: But we're going to be there anyway, and we'll have that opportunity thanks to you.
[33:08.740 --> 33:10.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-209-2950.
[33:10.880 --> 33:19.320]  [SPEAKER_01]: And your pledge also, in addition to supporting the radio station, it indicates to the people behind the radio station what sort of show you want to listen to.
[33:19.440 --> 33:23.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you pledge during Off the Hook, obviously it means you like Off the Hook.
[33:23.340 --> 33:27.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: You like our irreverent commentary and our bits of hacker news.
[33:27.880 --> 33:32.300]  [SPEAKER_01]: A hacker, computer science, computer civil liberties, all that sort of stuff.
[33:32.500 --> 33:40.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Now, I have a little interesting article that Greg, one of the convention organizers, the Hope, sorry, Hope convention organizers, sent to us.
[33:40.280 --> 33:40.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Greg Newby.
[33:40.880 --> 33:41.660]  [SPEAKER_06]: Greg Newby, yes.
[33:42.620 --> 33:47.940]  [SPEAKER_06]: Apparently, well, for those of you who were at Hope, for the first day or so, we had trouble getting online.
[33:48.080 --> 33:57.040]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this was not due to any fault of our own, but it was rather Verizon's fault, because we'd asked for two lines, and one didn't work, and the other one wasn't even set up.
[33:57.040 --> 34:01.620]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, our T1 lines weren't available for that time.
[34:02.280 --> 34:20.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: And this also, I mean, Verizon, it apparently doesn't just affect us with their screw-ups, but also the Democratic National Convention, the media center at the media pavilion, where all the journalists are, lost their Internet connection for about an hour.
[34:20.280 --> 34:22.000]  [SPEAKER_06]: So, you know, we had a lost for a day.
[34:22.220 --> 34:22.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: Time time, too.
[34:22.900 --> 34:25.610]  [SPEAKER_12]: This is like right at, like, from 6 o'clock to 7 something.
[34:25.720 --> 34:27.610]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, 6 p.m., so 6 to 7 about.
[34:28.210 --> 34:30.700]  [SPEAKER_06]: And so, they were unable to communicate.
[34:30.860 --> 34:37.570]  [SPEAKER_06]: I guess they had to use their phones and whatnot, but they weren't able to get on the Internet, which I'm guessing nowadays for the media is a big deal.
[34:37.570 --> 34:48.920]  [SPEAKER_04]: You know, as I was walking around Halifax today, I saw many workers for the phone company who are not working because there is a strike against the phone company here.
[34:49.040 --> 34:51.320]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's called Alliant, whatever that means.
[34:51.480 --> 34:51.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: Alliant?
[34:52.140 --> 34:53.020]  [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[34:53.180 --> 34:54.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: That makes as much sense as Verizon.
[34:54.760 --> 34:55.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: It's one of these non-words.
[34:56.580 --> 35:09.860]  [SPEAKER_04]: Anyway, Alliant apparently merged or whatever, I don't quite understand the story, but their workers have been on strike for the past 14 weeks, demanding a pension plan and other things.
[35:10.160 --> 35:16.540]  [SPEAKER_04]: The strike's not about wages, I'm told, but just, you know, some basic on-the-job respect and job security.
[35:16.980 --> 35:24.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: And Alliant is refusing to negotiate with these workers, and so they have been out here for 14 weeks on strike.
[35:24.660 --> 35:28.940]  [SPEAKER_04]: And they told me they unfortunately don't see an end anytime soon.
[35:29.140 --> 35:42.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: And just yesterday, in fact, the top story on CBC was that the Alliant workers are urging customers to go with the competition as, I guess, kind of a desperate move because they're not being heard any other way.
[35:42.760 --> 35:53.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: And they're hoping that the customers themselves will voice their opinions through their pocketbooks and force Alliant to actually do something about these conditions, these demands.
[35:54.660 --> 35:58.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, yeah, that's something that's happening all throughout the Maritimes, Maritime provinces here.
[35:59.650 --> 36:04.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we'll keep an eye on that situation as well, not if anything else comes up.
[36:04.800 --> 36:08.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: Also, I should point out, we are in Halifax, as we mentioned, and again, that offer stands.
[36:08.740 --> 36:15.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: If people want to meet us at the place in Halifax called the Argyle, which is on Argyle Street, and you should know where it is if you live in Halifax.
[36:16.360 --> 36:19.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll buy you dinner at 10 o'clock tonight, but you have to be listening to the show live.
[36:19.800 --> 36:21.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's why it's important to listen to the radio show live.
[36:21.740 --> 36:29.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: I know a lot of people listen to it later, and they say, well, you know, I really want to support you guys, but the fundraiser is over now by the time I got to listen to the radio show.
[36:29.380 --> 36:34.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, you know, it's great to listen later, too, but sometimes you have to listen live.
[36:34.480 --> 36:38.550]  [SPEAKER_14]: Sometimes you have to listen and get things while they're hot.
[36:38.760 --> 36:40.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: And the premiums are being offered tonight.
[36:41.160 --> 36:43.280]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're only being offered tonight for Off the Hook.
[36:43.960 --> 36:48.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: And so is this deal that we're offering you here in Halifax.
[36:49.020 --> 36:52.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's got nothing to do with the fundraiser, although it would be nice if people in Halifax also pledged.
[36:52.880 --> 36:55.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: But we're on our way out of here tonight.
[36:55.400 --> 36:58.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: With the money you save on dinner, you can pledge to the radio station.
[36:58.380 --> 36:58.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's right.
[36:58.960 --> 36:59.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know what?
[36:59.460 --> 37:03.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: You would have had to eat tonight anyway here in Halifax, so we're going to buy you something.
[37:03.380 --> 37:05.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: And hopefully you won't go crazy buying things at this place.
[37:06.540 --> 37:12.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: With that money, maybe, you know, we're not going to force you to do that, but maybe you could pledge to the radio station instead and show your gratitude that way.
[37:12.860 --> 37:20.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: But I also want to point out, we're heading out of Halifax tonight, and we're going to be driving all through the night to a place called North Sydney, which is on the other end of the island.
[37:21.180 --> 37:35.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then tomorrow we'll be catching a ferry over to Port-a-Bosk in Newfoundland, and driving all the way around Newfoundland down to this place called Fortune, heading to St. Pierre-Miquelon, which technically are part of France, and then coming back,
[37:35.700 --> 37:39.070]  [SPEAKER_14]: I believe, on Sunday and driving to St. John's.
[37:39.400 --> 37:43.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, the reason I mention this is because we have a listener in St. John's who has been writing to us.
[37:44.020 --> 37:50.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie, I believe you've been in correspondence with him concerning the glass CRT issues.
[37:50.400 --> 37:50.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you remember this?
[37:50.980 --> 37:52.620]  [SPEAKER_12]: Oh, yeah, the guy with the thermal imager.
[37:52.860 --> 37:56.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah, and in fact, that's the real reason we're heading up, because we're heading up to check out your story.
[37:57.520 --> 38:00.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we're coming directly up to you to see exactly what it is you're talking about.
[38:01.220 --> 38:05.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: No, actually, we're just heading up here because it's nice weather and a nice time of year.
[38:06.020 --> 38:10.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: But if you want to meet up with us, too, please send us an email, OTH, at 2600.com, we'll be happy to.
[38:10.980 --> 38:12.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: But, Bernie, where does that story stand?
[38:15.360 --> 38:15.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: Bernie?
[38:16.140 --> 38:17.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'm here, I'm sorry.
[38:17.180 --> 38:19.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Where does that story stand with the CRTs?
[38:19.780 --> 38:21.200]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do you remember how we left it?
[38:23.660 --> 38:26.360]  [SPEAKER_12]: He's still doing some experiments to determine...
[38:26.360 --> 38:27.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: I definitely was a CRT.
[38:27.900 --> 38:31.140]  [SPEAKER_12]: It wasn't one of these flat LCD displays.
[38:31.600 --> 38:33.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, well, I'll read you what he said to us.
[38:33.500 --> 38:35.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: He said, the monitor I'm using is a CRT.
[38:35.540 --> 38:42.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: As for other heat-generated things in the building, if you were to direct the camera at a DC wall adapter, it would indicate the heat emissions quite well.
[38:43.800 --> 38:49.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: Actually, Bernie, for the sake of those people who might not know what we're talking about, what was the gist of the first letter this guy sent us?
[38:49.800 --> 38:51.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: Well, he has access...
[38:51.300 --> 39:09.320]  [SPEAKER_12]: I think he works for a volunteer fire company up there, and he has access to what's called a thermal imager, which is, among other things, used by firefighters in smoky buildings to find the people, because you can detect heat signatures through smoke and haze and so forth.
[39:09.460 --> 39:19.500]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's also used by surveillance by law enforcement agencies to look for heat behind walls or through roofs to see where people are, to see if you have marijuana growing lights, that sort of thing.
[39:19.570 --> 39:34.570]  [SPEAKER_12]: But anyway, he was really surprised that when he pointed this thing through a window from the outside, the heat from some devices was detected, but the heat from his CRT monitor was not detected.
[39:34.740 --> 39:36.100]  [SPEAKER_12]: And it's a very strange puzzle.
[39:36.300 --> 39:40.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: So I hope you can get up there and actually witness the phenomena.
[39:40.680 --> 39:51.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, to finish his letter of this week, the glass I was directing the camera, from what I can tell, is just standard shatterproof glass, glass with wire mesh throughout it.
[39:51.680 --> 39:57.050]  [SPEAKER_14]: I have since learned that the camera has more settings and can actually be used within a fire, not just a smoke-filled building.
[39:57.940 --> 40:05.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: To add to the question in the last email, what about for security reasons, people could easily hide from the thermal imaging of these devices?
[40:06.740 --> 40:08.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: And then finally, some words about St. John's.
[40:08.940 --> 40:14.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Newfoundland has the oldest city in North America, which is St. John's, and is quite up-to-date in terms of buildings.
[40:14.050 --> 40:16.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: So we do have many glass structures as well as glass-surrounded rooms.
[40:17.380 --> 40:19.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: And it's also not that cold up here.
[40:19.120 --> 40:24.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Our average temperature has been about 30 degrees Celsius, which is actually 86 Fahrenheit for most of the summer.
[40:24.920 --> 40:26.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's signed, Rob, out of St. John's.
[40:26.200 --> 40:31.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: And Rob, we'd like to meet up with you at some point, so send us an email, OTH, at 2600.com.
[40:31.620 --> 40:35.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: And again, those of you in Halifax, please show up at the Argyle, 10 o'clock tonight.
[40:37.010 --> 40:37.570]  [SPEAKER_14]: 1575 Argyles.
[40:40.040 --> 40:40.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: What else?
[40:40.820 --> 40:42.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Should we take some phone calls or try to take some phone calls?
[40:42.220 --> 40:43.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, we have some news, whatever you want.
[40:43.980 --> 40:44.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: Phone calls or news.
[40:44.780 --> 40:45.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: If I can interrupt.
[40:45.280 --> 40:46.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Jim, tell us what news you have.
[40:46.360 --> 40:49.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I got a couple things which I'll run through quickly.
[40:50.000 --> 40:51.780]  [SPEAKER_01]: Sad story to start with.
[40:51.920 --> 40:54.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: In Possum Kingdom Lake, Texas, Robert W.
[40:55.160 --> 40:56.500]  [SPEAKER_01]: Beamer, age 84, died.
[40:56.800 --> 41:07.400]  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, that name probably means nothing, but he happens to have been the inventor of ASCII, the scheme by which 128 alphanumeric characters are assigned numerical values.
[41:07.400 --> 41:16.840]  [SPEAKER_01]: This was the first thing that enabled computer manufacturers, different computer manufacturers, to allow their devices to speak to one another, one way or another.
[41:17.320 --> 41:24.920]  [SPEAKER_01]: He later invented COBOL, which you may recall the older hackers among us as a business-oriented language.
[41:26.240 --> 41:27.680]  [SPEAKER_01]: A couple other things?
[41:28.640 --> 41:29.660]  [SPEAKER_12]: It's a sad day.
[41:29.660 --> 41:41.050]  [SPEAKER_12]: Our HOPE cards, our punch cards that were handed out to all the HOPE attendees were actually encoded and punched with a binary ASCII code.
[41:41.300 --> 41:42.880]  [SPEAKER_12]: So it was not EPSIDIC?
[41:43.320 --> 41:44.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: It was not EPSIDIC.
[41:44.550 --> 41:49.920]  [SPEAKER_12]: You could code them either way, but I chose to have them done in ASCII so people could read them more easily.
[41:50.300 --> 41:52.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: What's ironic is that he died on the first day of HOPE.
[41:54.240 --> 41:54.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow.
[41:54.940 --> 41:55.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[41:55.200 --> 41:55.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
[41:56.460 --> 41:58.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: How about the guy who invented EPSIDIC, though?
[41:58.000 --> 41:58.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: Is he still around?
[41:59.040 --> 42:00.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the name.
[42:00.200 --> 42:01.740]  [SPEAKER_01]: I could start looking it up.
[42:01.880 --> 42:03.740]  [SPEAKER_04]: Probably hiding in shame, whoever he is.
[42:06.140 --> 42:08.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: One of our authors has been arrested a few weeks ago.
[42:09.320 --> 42:14.700]  [SPEAKER_01]: A man known as Decoder had an article in the Winter 2004 issue.
[42:15.720 --> 42:17.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: Verizon is on his tail.
[42:18.500 --> 42:24.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: The federal prosecutors are charged that he could have disrupted the Emergency 911 service up and down the East Coast.
[42:24.740 --> 42:29.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, hell, I could have taken out all the electricity on the East Coast if I had had enough bombs, too.
[42:30.200 --> 42:31.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, they don't have your address right.
[42:31.820 --> 42:34.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: They fixed the typo and you should be getting your indictment soon.
[42:34.260 --> 42:38.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, it's another case of, yeah, you could have done that if, if, if.
[42:40.140 --> 42:55.880]  [SPEAKER_01]: He wrote under the name Decoder on freaksandgeeks.com mostly articles on how to change your default phone answering system for Verizon, things like that.
[42:56.550 --> 42:57.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: What's it called?
[42:58.140 --> 42:58.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Call...
[42:58.860 --> 43:04.940]  [SPEAKER_01]: Bernie, what's it called where you block calls from numbers that don't identify themselves?
[43:05.300 --> 43:06.520]  [SPEAKER_01]: Anonymous call rejection.
[43:06.740 --> 43:08.070]  [SPEAKER_01]: Anonymous call rejection, right.
[43:08.200 --> 43:27.000]  [SPEAKER_01]: He gave the 800 number that Verizon technicians could call to cancel that on any line, allowing anybody who was rejected to go, pretend to be someone else, enter that person's phone number, eliminate it, and then call back and allow them to accept anonymous calls.
[43:27.400 --> 43:37.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: So if you were trying to get to somebody who had anonymous call rejection, Decoder printed the instructions on it and Verizon came down on him.
[43:38.960 --> 43:42.040]  [SPEAKER_01]: He was charged criminally with publishing this information?
[43:42.180 --> 43:43.100]  [SPEAKER_01]: Charged criminally.
[43:43.260 --> 43:49.600]  [SPEAKER_01]: He posted the secret numbers, codes, and how-to directions on the Internet before investigators stumbled onto his plot a few months ago.
[43:50.040 --> 43:50.360]  [SPEAKER_01]: A plot?
[43:50.640 --> 43:51.160]  [SPEAKER_01]: Huh?
[43:51.420 --> 43:52.220]  [SPEAKER_01]: A plot?
[43:52.400 --> 43:53.420]  [SPEAKER_01]: A plot, yes.
[43:53.680 --> 43:54.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I love that.
[43:54.680 --> 43:56.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Well, what would you do with this information besides plot?
[43:57.020 --> 43:58.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean...
[43:58.360 --> 44:00.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: See, this is a tragic case.
[44:00.860 --> 44:15.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's really important when people stumble upon information like this, unless you feel that you can take on all these authorities yourself, you really need to have people on your side that will protect you, for one thing.
[44:15.800 --> 44:29.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: We've had many cases where people have sent us articles or confidential listings, and whether it's a corporation or an angry investigator or even an agency, there are always people who want that information.
[44:29.920 --> 44:32.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: They want to know where we got that information.
[44:32.300 --> 44:37.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we have never, to this day, told anybody what any of our sources are.
[44:37.080 --> 44:39.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: And we're very serious about protecting that information.
[44:40.340 --> 44:44.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, for people who get this kind of stuff, be careful.
[44:45.180 --> 44:54.160]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just know that there are either people on your side who will protect your privacy, or just be very careful about how it gets released and how it gets obtained.
[44:54.880 --> 44:59.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Or you could be going through hell, as many people who have been part of this radio show have already gone through.
[45:00.540 --> 45:07.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, Mike's got an interesting story here about something DNC-related, and then we're going to take phone calls right after that, 212-209-2900.
[45:07.900 --> 45:12.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: But first, I just want to make sure people know the pledge line, 212-209-2950.
[45:12.840 --> 45:15.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: Let's light that one up and get all kinds of people calling in.
[45:16.000 --> 45:17.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: You know all the premiums.
[45:17.200 --> 45:18.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: We've gone over them a few times.
[45:18.820 --> 45:21.200]  [SPEAKER_06]: We're up to $720 right now.
[45:21.660 --> 45:22.520]  [SPEAKER_06]: We can do better than that.
[45:22.600 --> 45:24.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: We can break $1,000 for a one-hour show.
[45:24.760 --> 45:26.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: That would be really good if we could break $1,000.
[45:26.540 --> 45:34.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: I'd also like to thank Charlotte from Northport, New York, and James from Gloucester, Massachusetts, for their donations.
[45:34.440 --> 45:35.120]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's very nice.
[45:35.120 --> 45:36.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thank you very much for calling in.
[45:36.400 --> 45:38.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: 212-209-2950.
[45:38.300 --> 45:43.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Remember, everybody 50 and above gets an off-the-hook T-shirt made by $2,600.
[45:43.300 --> 45:44.920]  [SPEAKER_14]: You can only get those by pledging.
[45:45.060 --> 45:46.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: We don't sell those to anybody.
[45:46.760 --> 45:49.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: So 212-209-2950, and there's all kinds of other things.
[45:50.040 --> 45:52.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: Now, Mike, what's this story you have over there?
[45:52.260 --> 46:16.420]  [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, the website Cryptome, that's C-R-Y-P-T-O-M-E dot org, has been publishing some materials by this guy, James Atkinson, who is a security expert, at least self-described, who has been going around the DNC before and during the events there and finding all kinds of crazy security vulnerabilities.
[46:16.940 --> 46:27.120]  [SPEAKER_04]: So, for example, there's security barriers, also known as jersey barriers, which are kind of there, but they're not properly wired together in a way that...
[46:27.120 --> 46:28.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: so that they actually have effect.
[46:28.880 --> 46:36.560]  [SPEAKER_04]: So his claim is that, you know, if you had a Toyota Echo driven by a drunk freshman, you could just go right through it.
[46:38.300 --> 46:39.480]  [SPEAKER_04]: And what else?
[46:39.600 --> 46:46.160]  [SPEAKER_04]: He's got a media pavilion next to the fleet center, which he claims is not properly protected.
[46:48.160 --> 46:57.240]  [SPEAKER_04]: Ventilation systems and all kinds of things that are just out there if there were actually any terrorists who wanted to do this.
[46:57.560 --> 47:10.660]  [SPEAKER_04]: He also notes, by the way, that the free speech zone, the protest pen, no building permit was obtained for the enclosure and it lacks an occupancy certificate for a place of public assembly as required by law.
[47:10.840 --> 47:16.500]  [SPEAKER_04]: There are insufficiently many exits, the fence is made of flammable materials, and there are no fire extinguishers.
[47:16.680 --> 47:20.140]  [SPEAKER_04]: The pen is unsafe and should not be used willingly by the public.
[47:20.920 --> 47:22.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: God forbid anything bad were to happen.
[47:22.960 --> 47:30.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: I just wonder how this kind of a thing would be looked back on, the kind of decisions that would make something as crazy as a free speech pen.
[47:33.160 --> 47:33.640]  [SPEAKER_12]: Someone...
[47:33.640 --> 47:34.800]  [SPEAKER_12]: I believe it...
[47:34.800 --> 47:40.460]  [SPEAKER_12]: of all people, I believe it was Ted Koppel who posed a question to one of the security people there inside the pen.
[47:40.460 --> 47:48.420]  [SPEAKER_12]: What if someone threw a bottle into the pen that when it broke a white powder was scattered around?
[47:49.460 --> 47:57.760]  [SPEAKER_12]: And the security official was sort of dumbfounded that Ted Koppel would suggest that there could be an attack on these people.
[47:57.940 --> 48:01.000]  [SPEAKER_12]: And he had no answer for how these people would get out in a hurry.
[48:01.120 --> 48:08.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: There just was no planning for any kind of rapid evacuation of the protest pen attendees.
[48:08.300 --> 48:09.440]  [SPEAKER_01]: I saw that.
[48:09.620 --> 48:21.020]  [SPEAKER_01]: And the guy, after being nonplussed for a moment, said that more or less, and I'm paraphrasing severely here, but I'm getting the gist of his spirit of the answer.
[48:21.240 --> 48:24.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: He said essentially that the responders would be protected.
[48:25.280 --> 48:25.580]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[48:25.940 --> 48:26.120]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[48:27.040 --> 48:31.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: Not to heck with the people inside the pen, but the responders would be safe.
[48:31.960 --> 48:32.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: What a relief.
[48:33.860 --> 48:35.700]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, Ken, how do you feel about taking phone calls?
[48:35.800 --> 48:39.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: You've got two guests on the phone line, and hopefully we'll want to keep everybody connected.
[48:39.980 --> 48:43.540]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I think the phones might work well enough, and people are indeed calling.
[48:44.320 --> 48:45.600]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, well then, let's take some phone calls.
[48:45.680 --> 48:50.500]  [SPEAKER_14]: But again, that pledge line, 212-209-2950-2900 for people who want to call on the air.
[48:51.140 --> 48:52.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: And good evening, you're on the air.
[48:53.220 --> 48:54.340]  [SPEAKER_08]: Hey, good evening, guys.
[48:54.660 --> 48:55.200]  [SPEAKER_08]: How's it going?
[48:55.600 --> 48:56.800]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're calling from Echo Land.
[48:57.300 --> 48:59.000]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, I'm calling from a cell phone.
[48:59.040 --> 49:01.940]  [SPEAKER_08]: That's why I'm from my car, but let me just turn on the radio.
[49:02.240 --> 49:02.440]  [SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[49:07.220 --> 49:12.700]  [SPEAKER_08]: I needed an application that would make me fill out one application for all of them.
[49:12.800 --> 49:13.440]  [SPEAKER_08]: I don't remember.
[49:14.160 --> 49:14.960]  [SPEAKER_07]: I believe so.
[49:15.480 --> 49:15.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah.
[49:16.300 --> 49:19.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Well, yeah, I'm just calling now because now I'm going to go to school.
[49:19.040 --> 49:20.080]  [SPEAKER_08]: I need a good computer.
[49:21.240 --> 49:22.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, did you get approved?
[49:22.660 --> 49:23.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: All your forms went through okay?
[49:24.280 --> 49:25.680]  [SPEAKER_08]: All my forms, yeah, thanks, guys.
[49:25.860 --> 49:30.400]  [SPEAKER_08]: I got a program that's called the LSAT program for law school.
[49:30.700 --> 49:31.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay.
[49:31.280 --> 49:34.780]  [SPEAKER_08]: And I use that for all the applications, so...
[49:34.780 --> 49:36.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, now you're just looking for a good computer?
[49:36.880 --> 49:38.500]  [SPEAKER_08]: I'm looking for a good laptop, man.
[49:38.560 --> 49:41.520]  [SPEAKER_08]: I have a Dell computer and a PC, but it's terrible.
[49:41.980 --> 49:42.060]  [SPEAKER_08]: Okay.
[49:42.060 --> 49:43.960]  [SPEAKER_08]: The customer service is not what it's cracked up to be.
[49:44.120 --> 49:44.420]  [SPEAKER_08]: Sorry.
[49:44.620 --> 49:47.380]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, this is definitely a question for the personal computer people.
[49:47.500 --> 49:48.720]  [SPEAKER_14]: They're coming on right after us.
[49:49.000 --> 49:50.020]  [SPEAKER_08]: Oh, oh, okay.
[49:50.220 --> 49:55.460]  [SPEAKER_14]: So, I would call them and ask them word for word that question because you won't get better advice.
[49:57.580 --> 49:58.920]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, go on to the next caller.
[49:59.060 --> 49:59.560]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're on the air.
[50:01.240 --> 50:01.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
[50:01.640 --> 50:01.940]  [SPEAKER_03]: You're on the air.
[50:02.540 --> 50:04.120]  [SPEAKER_06]: I don't think you pressed it, Ken.
[50:04.820 --> 50:06.540]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, you got to press the button really hard.
[50:06.540 --> 50:07.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, it went off.
[50:08.060 --> 50:16.260]  [SPEAKER_01]: While we're stumbling through this, let me point out the personal computer show will have a feature tonight on electronic voting and its insecurity.
[50:16.780 --> 50:22.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: So, we know a lot of our listeners are interested in that, so please stay tuned for the personal computer show tonight.
[50:22.280 --> 50:22.960]  [SPEAKER_01]: This is not working, man.
[50:23.060 --> 50:25.880]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's amazing to me if they can fit all that into just one hour.
[50:26.660 --> 50:28.440]  [SPEAKER_14]: I think you'd need six hours to do that.
[50:29.080 --> 50:30.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, it's amazing.
[50:30.300 --> 50:32.020]  [SPEAKER_03]: Every line seems to not be working.
[50:32.160 --> 50:33.120]  [SPEAKER_03]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[50:33.380 --> 50:35.480]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yes, I'd like to mention about the anonymous call.
[50:35.640 --> 50:37.620]  [SPEAKER_14]: You're right, they don't seem to be working.
[50:40.020 --> 50:44.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: You get that annoying buzzing sound, you get that annoying, like, chirping sound.
[50:44.280 --> 50:45.480]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[50:46.820 --> 50:48.800]  [SPEAKER_15]: Hey, this is Mark in Indiana.
[50:49.100 --> 50:51.300]  [SPEAKER_15]: Are you guys taking a pledge drive tonight?
[50:51.560 --> 50:52.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: We are.
[50:52.160 --> 50:54.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're taking pledges at 212-209-2950.
[50:54.680 --> 50:55.280]  [SPEAKER_15]: Okay, great.
[50:55.580 --> 51:03.180]  [SPEAKER_15]: I just wanted to call in and say that I've enjoyed your show for years I love your magazine and thanks for all the work you guys do.
[51:03.380 --> 51:04.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, thanks for calling.
[51:04.740 --> 51:06.540]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's people like you that make us want to keep doing it.
[51:06.740 --> 51:07.640]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for your support.
[51:08.460 --> 51:09.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, thanks.
[51:10.600 --> 51:11.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: Should we take another phone call?
[51:11.920 --> 51:13.280]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[51:14.160 --> 51:15.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, how are you guys doing tonight?
[51:15.720 --> 51:16.100]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good, how are you?
[51:16.260 --> 51:16.560]  [SPEAKER_02]: Good.
[51:17.380 --> 51:21.760]  [SPEAKER_02]: Just to clarify, you may have already gone over this because I stopped listening about a minute ago.
[51:22.540 --> 51:28.740]  [SPEAKER_02]: Decoder was arrested because he was giving out DATU SAS numbers on his website.
[51:29.020 --> 51:29.860]  [SPEAKER_01]: What is the DATU SAS number?
[51:30.760 --> 51:33.880]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the DATU, D-A-T-U, I believe that's how it's pronounced.
[51:34.940 --> 51:41.540]  [SPEAKER_02]: It's a test number used by technicians so they can, I guess, call up and test phone lines.
[51:41.680 --> 51:45.380]  [SPEAKER_02]: You can disable a phone line and do a bunch of different other features.
[51:45.920 --> 51:53.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: And he had, I guess, used it, they say, about a hundred times between January and April of this year.
[51:56.120 --> 51:56.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: That's interesting.
[51:56.920 --> 52:00.420]  [SPEAKER_14]: So basically you're saying that it's because he was giving out these numbers that he was...
[52:00.420 --> 52:07.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he was, it was Brooklyn, I believe it was some Brooklyn extensions that he was giving out.
[52:08.540 --> 52:13.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: He figured out, I think most of them were on default, the passwords, which is like four ones.
[52:14.960 --> 52:16.660]  [SPEAKER_02]: Now you've just given out that information.
[52:16.660 --> 52:17.260]  [SPEAKER_02]: are you going to use it?
[52:17.460 --> 52:19.400]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's available from Harris.
[52:20.280 --> 52:22.120]  [SPEAKER_02]: The company that manufactures Harris.
[52:22.680 --> 52:29.800]  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you go to their website, you can actually download in PDF format the manuals for it.
[52:29.940 --> 52:34.060]  [SPEAKER_02]: And it says the default password will be one, two, three, or four ones.
[52:35.500 --> 52:35.960]  [SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[52:36.640 --> 52:41.300]  [SPEAKER_12]: So he was charged with actually using this system without authorization?
[52:41.300 --> 52:42.180]  [SPEAKER_12]: Is that what you're saying?
[52:42.440 --> 52:44.140]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he was, yeah, well, it was two things.
[52:44.260 --> 52:55.220]  [SPEAKER_02]: It was using the system without authorization and it was also the fact that Verizon is saying that they had to spend about $125,000 reprogramming all these numbers.
[52:56.440 --> 52:57.080]  [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.
[52:57.640 --> 53:01.080]  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, that is what the article alleged that they had to spend.
[53:01.320 --> 53:02.720]  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you mean the phone number?
[53:03.040 --> 53:08.860]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they had to change the phone number, plus they had to, you know, go back and, you know, change the defaults.
[53:08.940 --> 53:10.440]  [SPEAKER_02]: That sounds like a mistake.
[53:10.440 --> 53:14.400]  [SPEAKER_14]: That should take too long, and they are the phone company after all, so changing phone numbers shouldn't be too hard for them either.
[53:14.680 --> 53:19.680]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they said it $125,000 worth of overtime for their technicians to change.
[53:19.920 --> 53:24.460]  [SPEAKER_01]: Gee, any smartphone company would have done that in the first place, but...
[53:24.460 --> 53:26.920]  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, not all the numbers were, I guess, were on default.
[53:26.920 --> 53:34.500]  [SPEAKER_02]: I guess it took a little bit of social engineering to try to get the actual passwords out, but...
[53:34.500 --> 53:37.640]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, we'll keep people updated on this story, because it does sound very interesting.
[53:37.780 --> 53:39.240]  [SPEAKER_14]: There's going to be a lot more that we're not hearing.
[53:39.560 --> 53:41.360]  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it is going to be interesting.
[53:42.080 --> 53:43.940]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, hey, thanks for the info.
[53:44.040 --> 53:45.520]  [SPEAKER_14]: Please keep us updated if you hear anything else.
[53:45.720 --> 53:46.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, thanks.
[53:46.600 --> 53:49.280]  [SPEAKER_01]: We have some more people's names of pledgers.
[53:49.320 --> 53:54.800]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yes, we'd like to thank Cheryl from Easton, Pennsylvania.
[53:55.440 --> 53:57.240]  [SPEAKER_12]: Thank you, Wow, Bernie, you know that.
[53:57.420 --> 53:58.840]  [SPEAKER_12]: I know Easton very well.
[53:58.940 --> 54:00.160]  [SPEAKER_12]: You probably know the Pledger.
[54:01.520 --> 54:08.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: We'd like to thank Mark from Bloomington, Indiana, and Kelly from Newton, Kansas.
[54:09.340 --> 54:10.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: Thanks for your pledges.
[54:10.600 --> 54:11.960]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're getting out there tonight, aren't we?
[54:12.040 --> 54:13.900]  [SPEAKER_14]: But nobody from Halifax, Nova Scotia.
[54:15.340 --> 54:16.360]  [SPEAKER_06]: Or New York even.
[54:16.860 --> 54:17.420]  [SPEAKER_06]: 902 area.
[54:17.540 --> 54:18.580]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, we did Newport, New York.
[54:18.600 --> 54:19.140]  [SPEAKER_06]: Oh, that's long.
[54:19.200 --> 54:21.240]  [SPEAKER_06]: I mean, I'm just reading the ones who wanted to be right on the air.
[54:21.280 --> 54:21.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Oh.
[54:21.640 --> 54:21.760]  [SPEAKER_06]: Yeah.
[54:22.140 --> 54:24.700]  [SPEAKER_13]: There are other pledgers, but yeah.
[54:26.120 --> 54:28.480]  [SPEAKER_01]: 212-209-2950 to pledge.
[54:29.040 --> 54:31.200]  [SPEAKER_01]: 50 bucks gets you the off-the-hook t-shirt.
[54:31.780 --> 54:34.620]  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a wonderful feeling to pledge and to feel the t-shirt.
[54:34.900 --> 54:46.300]  [SPEAKER_14]: And you can for $25 and above, you can participate in WBAI elections, which are quite important, and you can help maintain the only real independent voice left in New York City media on the FM dial.
[54:47.320 --> 54:47.480]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yep.
[54:47.820 --> 54:49.040]  [SPEAKER_14]: Do we have time for another phone call or two?
[54:50.220 --> 54:50.980]  [SPEAKER_03]: Just barely.
[54:51.220 --> 54:51.320]  [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[54:51.340 --> 54:52.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, let's see what we can do.
[54:52.700 --> 54:54.040]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay, you're the last call of the day.
[54:55.020 --> 54:57.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wow, we're the last call of the day, right?
[54:57.600 --> 54:58.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: How about you?
[54:58.500 --> 54:59.600]  [SPEAKER_06]: Good evening, you're on the air.
[55:00.040 --> 55:00.480]  [SPEAKER_13]: Yeah, good evening.
[55:00.580 --> 55:01.360]  [SPEAKER_13]: Just a quick question.
[55:01.600 --> 55:06.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: The guy is striking against the phone company with a stupid name.
[55:06.380 --> 55:07.080]  [SPEAKER_13]: I think it was Alliance.
[55:07.660 --> 55:13.260]  [SPEAKER_13]: Do they have a general fund or a website or if people want to help them out, is there some way we can contact them?
[55:13.920 --> 55:15.320]  [SPEAKER_13]: You know, I'm embarrassed not to know.
[55:15.420 --> 55:19.060]  [SPEAKER_14]: Well, what I would do is I would plug Alliance, which is spelled, how do you spell that, Mike?
[55:19.560 --> 55:23.760]  [SPEAKER_04]: A-L-L-I-A-N-T?
[55:23.760 --> 55:33.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: Okay, plug that into a search engine and put the word strike after that and I'm sure something will come up that is a site having to do with the strike against Alliance.
[55:33.980 --> 55:34.160]  [SPEAKER_13]: Great.
[55:34.500 --> 55:37.420]  [SPEAKER_13]: Okay, well, if any of them are listening, good luck to our brothers and sisters out there.
[55:37.840 --> 55:38.760]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, thanks for your call.
[55:38.920 --> 55:39.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: Thanks.
[55:39.260 --> 55:39.520]  [SPEAKER_13]: Take care.
[55:40.200 --> 55:45.100]  [SPEAKER_14]: And just to sum up, again, Mike, I'm hearing echo for some reason.
[55:45.480 --> 55:46.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: Did you hear that?
[55:46.000 --> 55:46.660]  [SPEAKER_14]: It just started.
[55:46.860 --> 55:47.080]  [SPEAKER_14]: phone.
[55:47.340 --> 55:48.340]  [SPEAKER_14]: Wow, it's kind of cool.
[55:48.460 --> 55:49.020]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, it's gone.
[55:49.540 --> 55:50.220]  [SPEAKER_14]: Am I still there?
[55:50.440 --> 55:50.780]  [SPEAKER_14]: Yeah.
[55:51.440 --> 55:51.620]  [SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[55:51.820 --> 55:52.900]  [SPEAKER_03]: That's interesting how it's stuffed.
[55:53.100 --> 55:53.160]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[55:53.400 --> 55:56.180]  [SPEAKER_14]: To sum up, Mike and I are here in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
[55:56.720 --> 56:01.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're leaving later tonight, but we'd love to meet up with anybody who is a listener in Halifax.
[56:01.900 --> 56:04.360]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll be going to a place called the Argyle.
[56:04.700 --> 56:05.740]  [SPEAKER_14]: It's an outdoor cafe.
[56:05.740 --> 56:08.840]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll be sitting over there, and if you come by at 10 o'clock, we'll buy you dinner.
[56:09.460 --> 56:15.820]  [SPEAKER_14]: I'll be wearing a 2600 t-shirt, but I'm sure you'll probably recognize me just because I've got the kind of face that stops customs
[56:20.080 --> 56:22.860]  [SPEAKER_14]: We'll be heading up to Newfoundland and St. Pierre as well.
[56:23.560 --> 56:29.260]  [SPEAKER_14]: We're preempted next week, by the way, so we won't be on at all next week, but we'll be on again in two weeks.
[56:30.420 --> 56:31.000]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right.
[56:31.160 --> 56:31.980]  [SPEAKER_14]: Just so everybody knows that.
[56:32.060 --> 56:45.140]  [SPEAKER_14]: Again, thanks everybody for calling in and showing support, and you can still do it for the next couple of minutes, 212-209-2950, and stay tuned to WBAI for all kinds of coverage of the Democratic Convention and the whole political process in general.
[56:45.340 --> 56:46.580]  [SPEAKER_14]: Any last words from anybody else?
[56:47.100 --> 56:52.980]  [SPEAKER_01]: Just that the personal computer show is coming up with a special report on e-voting, so stay tuned for them.
[56:53.540 --> 56:56.680]  [SPEAKER_14]: All right, guys, it's been a lot of fun, and I look forward to seeing you again.
[56:57.240 --> 56:57.520]  [SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[56:58.320 --> 57:03.640]  [SPEAKER_03]: You've been listening to Off the Hook on WBAI New York 99.5 FM.
[57:04.200 --> 57:06.220]  [SPEAKER_03]: Stay tuned for the personal computer show.
[57:07.100 --> 57:08.860]  [SPEAKER_03]: And this is Donovan's new album.
[57:11.700 --> 57:13.260]  [SPEAKER_11]: She asked me
[57:17.260 --> 57:36.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do I I wanna I wanna go to a beat Nick cafe where the lights below The music is cool and the chicks are slow Throw it in a billy as the sax he blow and a bongo boy go mango
[57:43.730 --> 57:49.390]  [SPEAKER_11]: Can a kid wink To her bow.
[57:52.400 --> 57:54.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: He asked her.
[57:56.980 --> 58:04.600]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you wanna go to a big cafe where the lights are low?
[58:05.000 --> 58:08.720]  [SPEAKER_11]: The music is cool and the chicks are slow.
[58:09.480 --> 58:12.820]  [SPEAKER_11]: Barefoot, baby, with a painted toe.
[58:13.100 --> 58:14.680]  [SPEAKER_11]: Has the reefer blow?
[58:15.500 --> 58:17.800]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go, chick, go.
[58:32.680 --> 58:38.400]  [SPEAKER_11]: Take a cheek, slink, with a bow.
[58:41.300 --> 58:43.420]  [SPEAKER_11]: I asked you.
[58:46.210 --> 58:53.540]  [SPEAKER_11]: Do you wanna go to a big cafe where the lights are low?
[58:53.770 --> 58:57.580]  [SPEAKER_11]: The music is cool and the chicks are slow.
[58:58.300 --> 59:01.750]  [SPEAKER_11]: Barefoot, baby, with a painted toe.
[59:02.020 --> 59:03.710]  [SPEAKER_11]: Has the sexy blow?
[59:04.230 --> 59:05.480]  [SPEAKER_11]: Go, chick, go.
[59:05.500 --> 59:06.880]  [SPEAKER_11]: And go.
[59:08.770 --> 59:11.650]  [SPEAKER_11]: Beat me, cafe.
[59:16.900 --> 59:19.560]  [SPEAKER_11]: Beat me, cafe.