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the RNC, only two weeks away.
Right now, it's 7.01, time for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would,
Von Diddley-Bohm, for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood, Von Diddley-Bohm!
I hope that's understood, Von Diddley-Bohm!
Good evening, everybody.
The program is Off the Hook, and guess where this music is from, Mike?
I can't guess.
It's a bit of Newfoundland music that we've brought back with us.
This is Shani Ganach, and boy, what a lot of fun.
Yeah, didn't see enough of Newfoundland music the last couple of weeks.
It's driving me crazy, but I figure why not share?
This is Off the Hook, the program that deals with all kinds of technology issues,
privacy, that kind of thing, and we have with us tonight Mike, of course, Red Hacked.
Hey.
And Jim.
Yep.
And Bernie S. down there in Philadelphia.
Good evening.
Enjoying the Newfoundland music, Bernie?
I love it.
Did you get a chance to see any of this performed live?
No, but I understand there's going to be a performance by one of those bands on Friday here in New York,
except that we have no information on it, do we, Mike?
No, but if you go to thenavigators.com, maybe you'll find information.
Yeah, it's a free concert someplace in New York.
I don't think it says where on the website.
It's in some park I never heard of before.
Is that a genre of music that you have a name, there's a name for?
Is it a genre?
Well, it sort of resembles Celtic, Irish, Scottish, that type of thing.
It's just rather unusual.
Of course, you know, if you go to places, most people are listening to, you know, Russian Eagles,
but if you are interested in local music, this is what it sounds like.
But this is not a music show, this is a discussion of the issues show,
and we're going to be doing just that tonight.
And we have all kinds of updates of various issues, and new issues as well,
and phone calls that we'll be taking a little bit later on.
The Republican National Convention is only two weeks away,
so obviously that's a topic that is something we're all talking about more and more.
I have an announcement to make.
What's the announcement, Mike?
Tomorrow at 8 p.m. there's going to be a gallery opening,
and the opening of the Media Info Shop and Journalist Registration Center for the Independent Media Center.
And that is at the gigantic art space of 59 Franklin Street, starting at 8 o'clock tomorrow.
So what exactly is this going to entail?
There's going to be some exhibits of photojournalism of recent footage from Iraq
and video curated by Paper Tiger Television,
and a silent auction of some of the photojournalism.
And so for more information on that, you can check out giganticartspace.com
or nycgrassrootsmedia.org.
And of course, if you want more information on the various independent media things that are going on,
go to nyc.indymedia.org.
Indymedia is spelled I-N-D-Y-M-E-D-I-A.
And you'll get the latest updates as to what's going on.
Listen to BAI, go to indymedia.org, and I think you'll get a pretty good picture as to what's going on.
You know what? Leave CNN on in the background.
Maybe you'll see something of interest now and then.
But I kind of doubt it.
I also have a plea while I'm at it.
What's the plea?
If anyone happens to have a spare T1 CSU DSU, I don't know what that is, but I know we need one.
Oh, you need one if you have a T1.
Yeah, we need one.
And there's going to be a T1 at the media space that is going to be used for all kinds of reporting back and forth.
So, yeah, in order to have that work properly, though, you need the CSU DSU.
That is important.
And whoever loans it will, of course, get thanked many times over, and you'll get it back, too.
We promise.
We have an inventory control system just to make sure you get it back.
We need it for, what, a week, two weeks?
A couple of weeks.
A couple of weeks.
Is it powered by RFID, this control system?
No.
It's powered by stickers.
All right.
An update to the story of last week where we were talking about taking pictures, people getting in trouble for taking pictures.
Someone was kind enough to send us a legal website.
Well, it's not really a legal website in the sense that it's not legal advice, but it's put up by a lawyer.
Burt P. Craigor II, attorney at law at Portland, Oregon, published this piece here,
Rights and Remedies When Stopped or Confronted for Photography.
And I'd just like to read this because it sets straight what I think are all the issues.
And if there's any questions to be raised, I guess we can raise them.
Basically, the general rule in the United States is that anyone may take photographs of whatever they want when they are in a public place
or places where they have permission to take photographs.
Absent a specific legal prohibition, such as a statute or ordinance, you are legally entitled to take photographs.
Examples of places that are traditionally considered public are streets, sidewalks, and public parks.
Property owners may legally prohibit photography on their premises,
but have no right to prohibit others from photographing their property from other locations.
Now, a good example of this is Citigroup.
Citigroup has every right to tell you not to take pictures inside Citigroup.
They can do that.
However, they cannot tell you to not take a picture of their building from the street.
All right. That's basically how it works.
And that's how it would work on just about any organization, as far as I can...
But they did tell you that, didn't they?
Well, yes, and I took the picture anyway.
You said they couldn't say that. In fact, they did say that.
Okay, they can say whatever they want, but they cannot prevent you from taking the picture.
And the cop I spoke to understood that.
That's good.
And that's why I challenged it, because I knew that that was allowed.
This is a very common thing that comes up when people say they can't do that or they can't say that,
but they do do that and they do say that.
Okay, well, they can say anything. They can be wrong.
They can be wrong as far as what they say.
So, yeah, anybody can say anything, if we want to be literal about it.
But as far as actually charging you with a crime, taking away your film, doing anything physical to you,
no, they don't have that right if you're standing in a public street taking a picture of a building.
They simply do not.
They can intimidate.
Yeah, they can do that, because intimidation is something that's a tactic used by law enforcement of various sorts.
And if you decide to pursue that, you probably would win in a court of law,
saying that they're using intimidation tactics against you.
They'll even, as we found, they'll even put this in writing.
If you remember in Philadelphia, when you were filming Freedom Downtime,
there was a large federal government sign on the fence at the federal prison construction site in Center City.
It said absolutely no photographs.
Well, of course, the first thing we had to do was take photographs and video of it.
Yes.
And I called the Bureau of Prisons in Washington, D.C., and talked to five different people at different levels,
and not a single one of them could cite what statute made that a crime.
And one guy finally admitted.
He said, well, there really is no such law. We just say that.
I said, well, I'm going to quote your name in a magazine.
And he freaked out, and I told him I was going to do that.
Did we do that?
This just goes to say, you cannot trust your own government when they say you can't do that.
You really need to say what's the law here.
Right. Right.
And that's why I'm very happy to see this particular page.
And I assume that it's correct.
If it's not correct in any way, someone, please, with a legal background, let us know.
But it sure seems reasonable to me.
And, by the way, while I was speaking about Citigroup, I just have an update,
because I have an inside source there that I've been communicating with.
And here is the latest word.
The latest word is that the atrium will be reopened on Friday of this week.
However, it's only open until 9 p.m.
And only open through two entrances.
And that, I believe, is how it's going to be for the indefinite future.
Not great, but it's okay for the 2600 meetings.
It means we'll be able to get back in there.
Any additional rules?
That, I'm not familiar with any additional rules.
I do know that if you want to go to one of the stores, you can go there after 9 p.m.
However, you must be escorted to the store if it's open past 9 p.m.
It's really kind of ridiculous and silly.
I don't know, do terrorists only strike after 9 p.m.?
You know, the whole thing is really, really silly.
And hopefully this will go away at some point.
Certainly after the convention, a lot less paranoia in the city.
Yes, Jim.
I want to urge everybody, if Citibank opens, Citigroup opens back up their atrium at 53rd and Lex,
please, please, shop there.
Even the little newsstands, the Barnes and Nobles, the photography store, the silly little delis.
Get drunk at the bar.
Yeah, get drunk at the bar.
There was a large article in the New York Times yesterday on how badly these folks are suffering
because of Citigroup's paranoia.
And, you know, these are pretty much small businesses except, obviously, Barnes and Nobles.
But all the others are small businesses.
So, you know, don't let the terrorists screw small businesses around without even blowing anything up.
Wait, wait, wait, this has nothing to do with the terrorists.
Let's not pretend.
I don't think you should be describing the government as terrorists quite like that.
Well, they don't like me much anyway, even though I'm Republican.
If you do patronize these merchants, tell them that you appreciate their plate
and express the very reason why you're giving them your business
because you disagree with Citigroup's policy so they can convey that to their landlord.
And, again, we don't know how much pressure Citigroup is under from the government, from New York City,
as far as remaining closed.
They may want to reopen and they may not be allowed to because of some ridiculous rule or statute or whatever.
Just pressure.
So, you know, if anybody has information as far as to what exactly they're up against,
we'd like to know more about that.
But in any event, news seems to be somewhat good on that front.
We'll keep you updated.
Continuing with this legal advice here,
whether you need permission from property owners to take photographs while on their premises depends on the circumstances.
In most places, you may reasonably assume that taking photographs is allowed
and that you do not need explicit permission.
However, this is a judgment call and you should request permission
when the circumstances suggest that the owner is likely to object.
In any case, when a property owner tells you not to take photographs while on the premises,
you are legally obligated to honor that request.
Now, there are exceptions.
A significant exception is that commanders of military installations
can prohibit photographs of specific areas when they deem it necessary to protect national security.
The U.S. Department of Energy can also prohibit photography of designated nuclear facilities,
although the publicly visible areas of nuclear facilities are usually not designated as such.
Members of the public have a very limited scope of privacy rights when they are in public places.
Basically, anyone can be photographed without their consent
except when they have secluded themselves in places where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy,
such as dressing rooms, restrooms, medical facilities, and inside their homes.
Hey, Manuel.
Yes.
This brings up a very interesting dilemma for people who have photographic memory.
I guess it does, but we're talking about the actual traditional pictures on glossy paper and on computers.
There are very small cameras around these days and cell phones,
and there's even some you can wear in a pair of glasses.
No one could possibly know you're taking pictures.
Well, I mean, those are cameras, and obviously that's hidden photography.
If somebody were to catch you taking pictures of the inside of their home or something like that,
I imagine they would have grounds to pursue you.
Right out of their house.
Yeah, in addition to the courtroom.
Despite misconceptions to the contrary,
the following subjects can almost always be photographed lawfully from public places.
Accident and fire scenes, children, celebrities, bridges and other infrastructure,
residential and commercial buildings, industrial facilities and public utilities,
transportation facilities such as airports, super fun sites, criminal activities, law enforcement officers.
Yes, that's right. You can take pictures of cops.
It's kind of funny they put children in there.
They really hate that.
No, they don't like it at all.
They don't like it at all.
And, you know, you are taking a picture of an angry man with a gun,
so that's something to keep in mind, you know.
Most confrontations are started by security guards and employees of organizations who fear photography.
The most common reason given is security, but often such persons have no articulated reason.
Security is rarely a legitimate reason for restricting photography.
Taking a photograph is not a terrorist act,
nor can a business legitimately assert that taking a photograph of a subject in public view infringes on its trade secrets.
On occasion, law enforcement officers may object to photography,
but most understand that people have the right to take photographs and do not interfere with photographers.
They do have the right to keep you away from areas where you may impede their activities or endanger safety.
However, they do not have the legal right to prohibit you from taking photographs from other locations.
Now, although anyone has the right to approach a person in a public place and ask questions,
persistent and unwanted conduct done without a legitimate purpose is a crime in many states if it causes serious annoyance.
You are under no obligation to explain the purpose of your photography,
nor do you have to disclose your identity except in states that require so upon request by a law enforcement officer.
What's that state where it was recently codified in law and...
Went all the way to the Supreme Court?
Yeah, what was it?
That was Nevada.
Nevada.
Yeah.
If the conduct goes beyond mere questioning, all states have laws that make coercion and harassment criminal offenses.
The specific elements vary among the states, but in general, it is unlawful for anyone to instill a fear that they may injure you,
damage or take your property or falsely accuse you of a crime just because you are taking photographs.
Private parties have very limited rights to detain you against your will and may be subject to criminal and civil charges should they attempt to do so.
Although the laws in most states authorize citizens' arrests, such authority is very narrow,
and general citizens' arrests can be made only for felonies or crimes committed in the person's presence.
Failure to abide by these requirements usually means that the person is liable for a tort such as false imprisonment.
They also have no right to confiscate your film.
Sometimes agents acting for entities such as owners of industrial plants and shopping malls may ask you to hand over your film.
Absent a court order, private parties have no right to confiscate your film.
Taking your film directly or indirectly by threatening to use force or call a law enforcement agency can constitute criminal offenses such as theft and coercion.
Bear in mind, if they say, give me that film right now, and if you hand it to them, you gave it to them with consent.
You can always just say, just like Nancy Reagan says, just say no.
And if someone has threatened, intimidated, or detained you because you were taking photographs,
they may be liable for crimes such as kidnapping, coercion, and theft.
In such cases, you should report them to the police.
Now, what if they are the police?
You have to go off the chain of command then, obviously.
You may also have civil remedies against such persons and their employers.
If you are disinclined to take legal action, there are still things you can do that contribute to protecting the right to take photographs.
Call the local newspaper and see if they're interested in running a story.
Many newspapers feel that civil liberties are worthy of serious coverage.
There are fewer, but some do.
Which newspapers are those?
There are a few. I don't know.
First of all, what's my local newspaper if I live in New York?
But even beyond that.
Write to or call the supervisor of the person involved or the legal or public relations department of the entity and complain about the event.
Or make the event publicly known on an internet forum that deals with photography or civil rights issues.
You can also call us here at Off The Hook.
Most confrontations can be defused by being courteous and respectful.
If the party becomes pushy, combative, or unreasonably hostile, consider calling the police.
Above all, use good judgment and don't allow an event to escalate into violence.
In the event you are threatened with detention or asked to surrender your film,
asking the following questions can help ensure that you will have the evidence to enforce your legal rights.
What is the person's name?
Who is their employer?
Are you free to leave?
If not, how do they intend to stop you if you decide to leave?
What legal basis do they assert for the detention?
And likewise, if they demand your film, what legal basis do they assert for the confiscation?
Now again, this is not legal advice.
This comes from Bert P. Craig II, attorney at Law of Portland, Oregon.
And we got that off a website, www.krages.com, if you're interested.
So hopefully that answers some questions.
I know a lot of people are very concerned with this.
A lot of people taking pictures of things and being threatened and harassed in various ways, including us.
All right.
I guess that's it for that subject.
What else is going on?
Anybody?
Jim, you have something there.
I have a couple of things.
Lego is surprisingly invading people's privacy.
Lego?
Well, actually, it's Lego Land.
They have one in, I believe, Copenhagen and one in Paris.
You're incorrect.
It's not in Copenhagen.
It's in the middle of nowhere in Denmark.
But go on.
I've never been to Europe, so forgive my geographical limitations.
But anyway, apparently, if you're a parent or claim to be a parent and you go to Lego Land,
they give your kid a little wristband which has a Wi-Fi-based tracking system built in.
And if you can't find Junior, you can send an SMS text message from your phone
and get an automated response revealing your child's location in the park.
There's a few little problems with this.
They're considering whether a three-year-old can give consent to be monitored,
but you can always assume that the parent is the one giving the consent for an underage child.
But what's more interesting is when you look at the technical stuff behind this,
which, by the way, is coming to the United States.
AT&T offers a Find Friends service.
The way that it works, apparently, is that they have a third party which has tracking vans,
much like the BBC does when they're trying to track your television in Britain.
But this tracking van picks up signals from cell phones or from the wristbands inside Lego Land,
and they have all the information.
And then they decide who gets it.
You can get a sort of friends and family, and I'm using that term loosely, group going
where you can ask, is there anybody in my group within a certain distance
or in this area where I'm going later?
And they'll say yes.
And so, you know, there's a lot of room for future abuse if there hasn't been already.
I'll leave it to the reader for an exercise in your imagination.
Jim, is your identity linked to the ID number of the tracking wristband?
Apparently, with the wristband system, you apparently have to register it for the day or whatever.
Excuse me.
So they know who you are?
They know who's asking for a given wristband.
You know, wristband number three goes with parent John Doe.
I'll bet child molesters would love to have that data.
That's one of the things that Liberty, which is a civil liberties group based in London,
has popped up with an objection.
Interesting.
Yeah.
Well, okay, some more security news here.
This person writes in, have you noticed when you apply for a bank account or credit card now,
the company will ask for some information to comply with the Patriot Act?
When I opened a bank account, I had to confirm that I was a U.S. citizen to comply with it.
And on a recent credit card application, I have to send a copy of a gas, water, or electric bill
to, quote, comply with section 326 of the USA Patriot Act, unquote.
I don't know how this is supposed to stop terrorism, but it sure is inconvenient,
especially for noncitizens who don't pay an electric bill.
Read that again.
You have to send a copy?
You have to send a copy of a gas, water, or electric bill.
Oh, like no one could even, to heck with Photoshop,
no one could even, like, splice and dice a bill and type in a name?
Jim, you're going to ruin it for everybody.
Oh, okay, sorry.
Okay, here's another security issue that might affect.
Yes, go ahead.
I'm sorry, I've got to interrupt.
I had a great conversation with PNC Bank on this very issue.
I was asking for an increase to the credit line I had with them,
which I had pre-existed prior to the Patriot Act,
but I wanted to increase the credit line.
And they said because the Patriot Act now, after that date,
this new law went into effect,
they needed to get my physical street address instead of my P.O. Box address.
Well, fortunately, I had researched this pretty thoroughly,
and I found that there is an exception that says
if you don't have a physical street address,
you can give the name of a friend or family member,
give the address of a friend or family member.
And I explained that I'm an old friend of George W. Bush's at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.
I said, we're old drinking buddies.
And the guy was incredulous.
I said, well, then I guess it's up to you to prove that that information is not correct,
that I don't know the President of the United States,
and that's the address I gave.
And I went back and forth and back and forth,
and finally they just sort of waived the requirement.
I don't know if they ever put down that address.
I don't think they put down that address.
There's a big asterisk next to your name that says trouble.
They continued to mail.
They gave me the credit line increase,
and they continued to mail statements to my P.O. Box.
Yeah, but you don't know how much spam George W. Bush is now getting at that address.
Well, good.
Anyway, continuing with this security issue,
as part of ongoing security enhancements at the George Washington Bridge,
the south sidewalk of the bridge will be closed as per the following schedule.
The permanent daily overnight closure of the south sidewalk from 1159 p.m.
not midnight, 1159 p.m.
until 6 a.m. the following morning goes into effect at 1159 p.m.
Friday, September 3, 2004.
These closures apply only to the south sidewalk.
The north sidewalk remains closed at all times.
Now, I don't understand anything about this.
Again, it's the nighttime thing with terrorists.
You know, terrorists only strike at night.
How does closing a sidewalk make anybody safer?
You know, there are probably people who jog across the bridge every morning,
some of them before 6.
Yeah.
It's like being stuck in Tompkins Square Park at 1159.
You know, they close one side of it first.
You're going to be stuck there in the bridge trying to get out.
You have to dive off the side to escape.
Anyway, that's...
They closed the Ben Franklin Bridge here in Philadelphia after dark.
But that's been going on for years.
They were worried about people getting mugged in the middle of the bridge.
So, unfortunately, after nightfall, you can't cross the Ben Franklin Bridge by foot.
There is some good bridge news.
The Manhattan Bridge now has a north and south pedestrian and bicycle lane open.
The north side has been open for a couple of months now.
Is it open after midnight?
I don't know.
I have seen people walking on the south side and bicycling on the south side after midnight.
But on the north side, I've never taken a train over the bridge.
What makes the bridge to Jersey more dangerous than the bridge to Brooklyn?
Explain that to me.
You know what kind of people live in Jersey.
You really want to go down that road?
You really want to do that?
It's too easy.
People from Jersey support this show more than the people from New York, I'll have you know.
I apologize to the people from New Jersey who aren't terrorists.
You can apologize to them in person downstairs after the show.
I think it's the south side because the south side overlooks Manhattan.
And we all know that's a terrorist target.
Whereas the north side is rather bucolic, countrified, and underpopulated.
So they're not worried.
All right.
Let's read some letters here.
Hi to everyone at the 2600 crew.
It's cool to hear that Emmanuel and Mike were visiting my part of the woods, so to speak.
I live in Deer Lake, Newfoundland.
Did we go to Deer Lake?
I don't think so.
It's hard to remember all the names.
I have a map.
Look it up.
See if we pass by Deer Lake.
It was a real blast to hear that you guys were visiting my province.
I hope both of you had a good time.
I love listening to Off the Hook every week.
And hearing the live broadcast from the Hope Conference was really cool.
Queue up the good work, guys.
One quick question.
What OS are you all using?
You know, I'm not going to get into OS discussions here.
We use all different kinds.
And they're all okay for different purposes.
Someone else wrote in to say that they believe they found the poster that we saw
when we were detained by customs on the way into the country.
And they gave us a link.
And no, that's not the same poster.
Remember that poster, Mike?
Yeah, it was the wrong one.
If you find the poster, this is a poster of the World Trade Center burning with a U.S. flag in the background.
And it distinctly looks like part of the U.S. flag is stabbing into the World Trade Center and causing the explosion.
So it's a real symbolic thing there that's up in their offices.
Did we pass by there, Mike?
We apparently did, in fact, pass through Deer Lake.
Did we?
It is right on the Trans-Canada Highway.
How about that?
Wow, that's something.
So Off the Hook listeners are spread out all over the place.
And again, if there are any in St. Pierre and Miquelon, which was the island that we went to that's part of France,
please let us know because we'd love to hear from you as well.
Emmanuel and Mike both seem concerned about the Newfoundlanders' thoughts about the Montreal folks.
But you can rest easy knowing the descendants of Barrett's privateers won't come sailing to New York
as long as you don't try to claim Labrador for their own, as some Quebeckers do or perhaps did.
I also watched the extra footage on the Freedom Downtime DVD this week.
I'm a sucker for buying the Super Platinum Director's Cut edition of any DVD I pick up.
Yet yours is the first one I've actually watched any of the extra content on.
Great stuff.
Well, thanks very much.
That's from Al.
And just a reminder, there's lots of things in there, little Easter eggs and hidden things.
And if you find something, mail downtime at 2600.com.
If you're the first, you'll get a special prize because there's all kinds of things.
And no, Redhack, you know what they are already.
So you can't tell people and you can't do it yourself.
Sorry.
It's all friends and family of BAI and Off the Hook listeners or staff are ineligible for that.
But, yeah, it's a double DVD set.
It's out.
It's a lot of fun.
We killed ourselves over this thing, so we hope people are enjoying it and playing around with it.
There's a lot to be found.
A lot of people haven't found yet.
I'm kind of surprised.
What if I find something I didn't know about before?
I think you know just about everything.
Oh.
That's the only time I'm ever going to say that sentence.
Anyway, through Off the Hook, I was watching the news.
This is interesting.
On Channel 4, they had a segment on the U.S. Post Office.
They'll now let you create your own postage stamps.
Go to photo.stamps.com slash learn dash more.
You can actually, I didn't totally research this, but you can actually put your own pictures on postage stamps subject to their approval.
I'm not quite sure how stringent that is.
But thanks, Alan, for sending that in.
Technically, it's not the Postal Service, but they're allowing it.
It's stamps.com.
And this has existed previously in Canada, Great Britain, and a number of other countries.
It's wonderful.
I think 2,600 should do it.
So you can put a picture of your dog on a stamp.
Your dog.
Almost anything.
I'm not sure about dogs, but I presume.
What's wrong with dogs?
There's nothing wrong with dogs.
It depends on where they want to draw the line.
Well, why would they draw the line?
I think a Walter stamp is in order.
I think so, too.
I think that's excellent.
Absolutely.
Is it that stamps.com pays the Postal Service and then you pay stamps.com?
Is that how it would work?
All I know is you pay somebody and you get stamps.
They're very expensive, these stamps.
There is a bit of a surcharge.
They're a lot more than 37 cents.
Yeah, but it's pretty damn cool, if you ask me.
How much are they?
You can go to the website and find out.
I'm not going to give out their prices.
What else?
The next thing would be I think the U.S. Treasury should get on the bandwagon and allow you to issue your own currency and coinage.
That would be nice.
That would be very nice.
Dear Off the Hook, sounds like you guys had a great conference.
I wish I could have been there.
I'm writing about the letter that was read on the show July 14th.
The writer voiced frustrations over the political views that the conference and attendees expressed
and how he thought that political views had no place at a hacker conference.
I must say I disagree with the thoughts but can sympathize with the feelings.
I can sympathize with the writer because I know what it's like to be surrounded with opposing views
and feel that your opinion doesn't matter.
Living in Texas and not being a fan of Bush is not easy.
I disagree because hackers need to get out of their basements
and understand they are part of the real world as much as the virtual world.
I believe today's hacker is much like the hobbits from the Lord of the Rings.
Man, I am such a nerd.
The hobbits were simple people who would rather keep to themselves than worry about the problems of the world.
In the course of the story, two hobbits, Mary and Pippin,
come to understand that the evil of the world will overtake them whether they do or don't do something about it.
Not that the evil of the story and the evil that the world and hackers are facing are anywhere close to the same.
Also, the conference was titled The Fifth Hope where hope stands for hackers on planet Earth.
Well, we know that.
Anyway, keep up the good work.
Thanks, G7.
And thanks for your sentiments and feelings as far as that goes.
Mike, you have something to say?
You've got a big grin on your face.
I'm not understanding the analogy, but I appreciate the sentiment.
Well, maybe you need to read Lord of the Rings.
Maybe.
All right.
Federal agents and city police are keeping tabs on people they say might try to cause trouble at the Republican National Convention,
questioning activists, making unannounced visits, and monitoring websites and meetings.
The law enforcement effort has been going on quietly,
overshadowed in public by talk of counterterrorism measures planned for the August 30th through September 2nd event.
We're not engaging in surveillance of groups or individuals without legal predication,
said Jim Margolin, spokesman for the New York office of the FBI.
Anne Roman, a spokeswoman for the Secret Service,
said agents expect to respond to an increase in possible domestic threats against President Bush and other dignitaries
as the convention at Madison Square Garden nears.
The Secret Service is also playing a lead role in planning convention security.
How we do that specifically, I'm not going to go into, she said.
Law enforcement sources said that in recent weeks, federal agents have begun interviewing people in the New York City area
they believe might know about any plots to cause mayhem at the convention.
Anyone in this room been interviewed yet?
I have not.
Okay.
And have used surveillance against possible suspects.
Well, that's probably us.
The intelligence unit of the New York Police Department has been closely monitoring websites run by self-described anarchists.
It also has sought to infiltrate protest groups with young, scruffy-looking officers posing as activists.
Oh, my goodness.
So if you know some young, scruffy-looking people, they could be cops.
But usually even the scruffy-looking cops are a lot more built up.
Yeah, they generally are.
They generally are.
And, you know, they wear the same kind of clothes and wear those baseball caps, you know, things like that.
You can often tell.
Yeah, you can often tell.
Especially, Bernie, if they ask for their free subway ride, too, whenever they go into the subway.
Right.
I just want to say the only news here is that the New York Times finally noticed.
I mean, activists have, first of all, it's been going on since at least the 60s.
But even in its most modern incarnation, people have known about this for months.
But apparently, I guess we should thank the Times for finally noticing.
But not much new here.
That's true.
There is a story that's been circulating on Wired, which we do need to address because a number of people have commented on it so far.
And this just appeared, I believe.
Online protests targeting GOP websites could turn out to be more than symbolic during this month's Republican National Convention,
possibly blocking a critical communications tool for the party.
According to someone named CrimeThink, we want to bombard the Republican sites with so much traffic that nobody can get in.
CrimeThink supposedly is one of several groups planning to distribute software tools to reload Republican sites over and over again.
These flood net programs are similar to hackers' distributed denial-of-service attacks.
Yes, blame the hackers for that.
Which overwhelm a server with thousands and thousands of simultaneous requests for information.
Some activists are condemning the planned attacks, saying they violate the principles of free speech that protesters rely on for their demonstrations.
And I've got to add my name to that.
I've heard of this organization before.
There was an incident in Vegas at the DEFCON conference where somebody calling themselves CrimeThink went on stage
and was calling for people to commit acts of vandalism and violence as well.
This is from what I've heard from people who are out there.
I'm not sure if this person calling himself CrimeThink is the same as the organization calling themselves CrimeThink.
It seems like they are.
It seems like they are because they refer back to the website.
I've got to say, this is not what the hacker world is all about, and it shouldn't be what the activist world is all about either.
I'm tired of actually hearing these silly denunciations of people who throw bricks.
Not that I support the throwing of bricks,
but it seems to me to be just a media scare tactic to focus on the three people who throw bricks
rather than the hundreds of thousands of people who throw bombs in the Middle East.
The level of criticism on these people who really do silly, stupid things
versus the lack of criticism on the people who actually do harmful things is way out of proportion.
Well, I think anybody who goes around cutting off access to a website because they don't agree with it
deserves to be denounced.
I mean, yes, of course people who go around throwing bombs deserve to be denounced too.
I don't think you should ever not denounce somebody because someone else is doing something worse.
But that kind of thing, it's contrary to everything that we allege to stand for
as far as freedom of speech and open talk and debate and that kind of thing.
If you don't agree with somebody, fine, express your views.
But shutting them up, that's not what accomplishes anything.
It only makes their position stronger because it turns them into a victim.
So, you know, I think a lot of people are being misled by that.
But, I don't know, if you have any opinions on this, feel free to give us a call at 209-2900.
I just was a bit upset because this story also includes something from hackers on planet Earth.
The attacks during the Republican convention may be just the beginning.
At the Hope Gathering in New York City, one speaker promised attendees
you will learn how to infiltrate organizations like the RNC,
how to look for and find security holes, and how mischief and mayhem is achieved.
Well, that was our own Shapeshifter who does the layout for 2600 saying that.
And his talk was great as far as describing just how the RNC works.
And it's very different. He was not calling for people to shut things down
or to vandalize or to commit violence or anything like that.
Basically, he was distributing information which is what we do.
We distribute information and use it however you want.
Use it to make something more secure, use it for your own political agenda, whatever.
But knowing how something is put together is an important thing.
I think everybody should share it.
And to go on and say, well, we're just going to destroy this.
It seems immature to me.
Anyway, that's my take on that.
Anybody see this story in the New York Times last week?
A Wi-Fi thief unmasked.
This was the dumbest story I have seen in a long, long time.
Written by Lisa Napoli.
And I don't mean to target her too much here, but come on already.
Get a clue. Good God.
Basically, she tells the story.
I'll read the first couple of paragraphs.
You'll get the sense as to where this is going.
A few weeks ago, after a refreshing twilight swim in the community pool,
I returned to my apartment in downtown Los Angeles,
opened my Apple iBook and fired up the browser,
ready for some high-speed urban surfing.
Instead of my usual homepage, what appeared on the screen
was an unfriendly-looking digital blockade bearing the Verizon logo.
It read, as snippily as text can sound,
please enter your 10-digit evening contact telephone number
that you provided when ordering your Internet service or your login code.
Annoyed, I typed in my own web address and then another and then another,
and each time the browser refused to budge.
Now, not only do I not subscribe to Verizon,
I don't pay for my Internet access. Period.
I steal it from my next-door neighbor, Paul,
by picking up the signal from his wireless home network
with my laptop's Wi-Fi card.
And I happen to know that Paul doesn't use Verizon.
He knows I steal from him, and I know he subscribes to SBC.
So how, then, did Verizon take over my computer screen?
Can you please stop reading?
Why? This is so funny.
Had the powers that be at the communications giant
read an earlier confessional I published in this newspaper
documenting my journey to become a bandwidth thief?
And if they had, how did they find me and single me out,
blocking me from my intended romp on the web?
Not only am I not that paranoid,
I was under no illusion that I was that important.
Besides, one division of Verizon gets a chunk of change from me every month.
It's my cellular provider.
Basically, she doesn't understand
that there are now two wireless providers in her apartment building,
and the Verizon signal apparently is overriding
the signal that she is stealing,
which she's not doing either. It's not theft.
She's sharing something with somebody, with his permission, I assume.
And it's just, for somebody that doesn't know anything about wireless networks,
reading this article, they'll get completely the wrong idea.
So she never actually comes to the correct conclusion that...
Actually, she does.
She does? Okay.
Let's see.
Way, way towards the end.
Does she really?
Yeah.
I read that, and I thought it was karma.
Her karma finally caught up with her.
She's being punished for her bad writing.
She says at the end,
I no longer have a free ride on the Internet.
So I don't think she came to the right conclusion.
I'll give the article to you, Jim,
if you can find the part of it where she actually learned something.
But I think it's just a lot of misinformation.
And this was in the New York Times?
The New York Times.
Now imagine, an article that's not correct being in the New York Times.
It should have been left on the cutting board.
Okay.
And finally, this letter.
Whatever you call it.
The editing floor.
Before we take phone calls,
212-209-2900, this letter from a listener.
Have all the premiums from the last fundraiser been sent out?
Should I be worried that my DVD got lost in shipping?
No.
We, in fact, had a slight problem getting names from BAI,
but I believe we have all the names now.
But what we're doing,
for the people that pledged in the last fundraiser,
we're actually having all the DVDs signed by Kevin Mitnick.
So right now they're in transit to him in Vegas.
They're going to be sent back to us,
and then we're going to send them to you.
As sort of an apology for taking so long.
Only people who pledged to WBAI will be getting those.
So, again, I believe we have your names.
If you want to email us to verify this, feel free to do that.
You can email oth at 2600.com,
and we'll pass it on to the right people
and make sure that you're on the list.
And what's this, Jim?
You have the actual...
The first two paragraphs there.
First two paragraphs?
Mr. Dunn explained how flaky a technology Wi-Fi can be
given that it rides on the airwaves shared by microwave ovens.
It could be as simple as a big black lab
sitting in front of the router next door
and is degrading the signal
and bumping you to a neighbor's connection,
one who uses Verizon.
Okay.
That's still wrong,
because she's probably just picking up access from the street.
I mean, I've had that...
If you go...
All right, Verizon puts Wi-Fi access points in telephone booths.
There's lots of telephone booths around.
Right.
And for their subscribers to their Internet service,
you can connect through that.
So, I mean, that's probably what she's being connected to.
And I don't think that explanation took with her either,
because all she's saying here
is that she knows her neighbor doesn't have a big black dog,
and she concludes that she no longer has a free ride on the Internet.
There are ways to select wireless networks.
You know, most Wi-Fi cards, it's very simple to do.
Apparently, she doesn't know how.
In Apple, it's just at the top, there's a little...
All right, well, if you know a New York Times reporter,
feel free to educate them.
Before we go to the phones, the navigators,
this Friday, 7 p.m., Damrush Park,
which is near Lincoln Center, 66th and Broadway...
Wait, where is that park?
It's near Lincoln Center, which is at 66th and Broadway.
Right, where is it in relation to, say, Central Park?
I've never heard of this park before.
It's a few blocks to the west.
Okay.
They're going to be appearing with the Saw Doctors,
which is a great Irish band.
If you like the Chieftains or Black 47
or fiddle music or accordions,
the Saw Doctors are very good.
And the Lee Boys, that's at Damrush Park, 7 p.m. this Friday.
The navigators from Newfoundland.
Okay, there you go.
And good evening, you're on the air.
Hi, how you doing?
How you doing, what's up?
I just want to respond about the topic of
that there might be some hackers
that want to create a denial of service
to the conservative or Republican website.
You know, that could also be turned around
on the Democratic or the Liberal side as well.
I'm sure that there could be Republican or conservative hackers
that want to make denial of service
to the international answer or to the nation.
Of course.
It's pure vandalism as far as I'm concerned.
It's got nothing to do with hacking.
Exactly.
And, you know, it's just stupidity as far as I can see.
Yeah, I'm sure the people of international answer
would not like it if their website couldn't be reached to.
Absolutely, nobody would like it.
And that's something I think people have to recognize.
Right, so there might actually be a cyber war going on.
You never know.
I mean, bad attitudes are going to be happening very soon.
Well, the media would love nothing more than to say
there's a cyber war going on, the hackers are now soldiers.
You know, if you ask the average hacker,
the average person comes to our meetings,
they will condemn this kind of thing because it's wrong.
Because shutting somebody up because you don't agree with them is wrong.
Committing acts of vandalism is wrong.
You know, it doesn't take much to realize this.
It's like watching TV.
If you don't like the show, you turn the channel.
That's right.
Okay, fine.
Okay.
I believe that the way they're doing it so that, I mean,
like in a normal denial of service attack,
it would be that you would gain control of many different,
you know, machines, zombie machines,
and have them all attack from one control point.
And the way they seem to be doing it, I went to their website,
is that they have a script or a program they wrote that you can download,
and you run it, and it will constantly, you know,
Which website has this?
I don't remember.
Was it Crime Think?
Maybe.
I don't remember.
I was just following links.
All right.
Well, I mean, you know,
I'd like to say if somebody is supporting this kind of thing.
It's the Electronic Disturbance Theater that's been doing this for years.
Well, basically, the way that people who want to attack the website,
they have this script.
It'll just keep pulling the website,
and if enough people were to download it and run it,
then that would task the web servers too heavily.
So that's how they play.
It's not like a normal denial of service attack
where they actually gain control of all the machines.
It would be lots of people willfully running.
God forbid you win something based on the merits of your argument.
Yeah.
You have to resort to things like this.
Well, that doesn't happen.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi.
Good evening.
In regards to Lisa Napoli's silly writing in the Times there,
Danny here from Harlem,
I actually sent you that article.
Danny, you did send us that article.
Thank you very much.
Anyway, I also wrote to her and the editor there,
and a whole bunch of us here at Panix wrote scathing letters,
which I'll forward to you directly,
but basically they're saying,
what is this third-grade literary failure doing writing for the Times
and getting published in the Times?
But very simply, what happened in her case,
and I know you mentioned it, but just to make it clear,
and the analogy I gave is she's using her friend's Amoco credit card
to go to an Amoco gas station a mile down the road.
A mobile station opens up a block away.
She goes to the mobile station with the Amoco card and gets refused,
and she doesn't understand why.
It's a great analogy.
You got it.
Anyway, take care, guys.
All right, thanks.
And good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Go ahead.
How are you?
Pretty good.
How are you?
Good.
It's Bob from Brooklyn.
Damrush Park is not near Lincoln Center.
It's actually in Lincoln Center,
right next door, basically, to the Met.
So if you go up on the plaza and you're standing at the fountain
and the Met is right in front of you,
to the left is Damrush Park.
Right next to the Big Apple Circus.
Okay.
It's out on the plaza, and you kind of can't miss it.
It's one of the three or four big plaza areas.
But it's a public park.
You can just walk into it.
Oh, absolutely.
Okay, great.
There's a band shell, and it's a very cool place.
There are free concerts all summer long,
Lincoln Center out of doors,
on three or four different areas of the plaza.
It's 65th and Amsterdam is the corner that that park is on.
Well, thanks for the information.
You're welcome.
Take care.
There's nothing BAI listeners don't know.
It's amazing.
Wow.
All right, let's take another phone call.
Let's go up here this time.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
I guess that was a bad idea.
All right, let's go back down there.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Go ahead.
Yes, go ahead.
Every day you're talking shit.
All right.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hey, how you doing?
Good show.
I'm Jesse from Brooklyn.
Thanks for calling.
What's on your mind?
I have a question about a decidedly less high-tech thing, radio.
I get really bad reception in my apartment building.
And I was wondering if there was any sort of Mickey Mouse way of increasing reception.
Like the really awful radio, like dance music and stuff, no problem.
But BAI, NPR, all the good stuff, college radio, I can't seem to get it.
And if I step outside, okay, I seem to get much better reception.
But right here in my apartment, no, no.
What kind of interference are you getting?
Just kind of like static over?
Static, yeah.
I mean, just general static.
It sounds like a ghost effect.
Do you live in a high-rise or near a high-rise?
No, I'm in Park Slope, and I live on the first floor.
I live on the street level.
Interesting.
Something apparently is blocking the signal.
FM radio is line of sight, so if something is in the way of the transmitter and you,
you will get what's known as a ghosting effect.
And that's why cities are very difficult to receive radio stations sometimes,
even though you're very close to them.
You notice that when you go outside, it clears up because you're moving,
that just a few feet sometimes will be able to do it.
There are two solutions.
One is to walk all around your apartment and figure out where putting the radio.
Try that.
I mean, we have the same problem with WBAI Stream.
It's at Junce's place in New Jersey, and occasionally, you know,
he has to move the radio a few inches to get the static to go away.
That might work for you.
One thing that will certainly work is if you put an external antenna on your radio
and either run it up your building or just even out your window.
That might have an effect.
Is that vulnerable to lightning?
Well, everything is vulnerable to lightning.
I mean, would that attract the lightning?
No, it wouldn't attract the lightning any more than anything else.
If you ran it, you know, a thousand feet up in the air in a pole,
maybe that would attract more lightning.
I was a little worried about it.
That's something I can buy in some electronic store.
Yeah, go to a radio shack and just ask them for an external FM antenna.
I would recommend.
Go ahead, Bernie.
I would recommend if you need an indoor FM antenna that's exceptionally good,
go to a website, C-Crane, C-C-R-A-N-E.com.
C-Crane?
The letter C and then C-R-A-N-E, C-Crane.com.
They have some excellent radio products,
including a really good FM dipole antenna for indoor use that I have.
It works superbly.
I recommend it.
So these are things you can hook up to your regular clock radio?
Well, it depends on whether the radio has an antenna input on the back or not.
But what you can do, is it a clock radio you're talking about?
Clock radio, regular junk radio that you can get from your local discount store.
Most clock radios have the antenna that's coupled to the AC power line through a power cord.
So try moving your AC power cord around or plug your clock radio into an extension cord
and run the extension cord up like a higher around your apartment.
You'll be surprised.
It can make a big difference.
Plug my radio into an extension cord?
Yes.
If it's one of the clock radios that is coupled to the antenna into the AC power cord,
which is very common if it doesn't already have its own external antenna wire,
then if it doesn't have its own external antenna wire or an external antenna connection,
it's probably coupled to the AC power cord.
So if you plug it into an extension cord and run that extension cord up like over a door frame or something,
you'll be surprised.
It makes a huge difference.
Okay.
So the extension cord becomes an antenna.
Exactly.
All right.
Enough.
Good luck with this.
Thanks.
All right.
212-209-2900.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Thank you for taking my call.
I enjoy your show whenever it's on.
I wanted to ask you to talk a little bit about the Microsoft product settlement suit.
And also, are there any free ISPs out there?
Okay.
Microsoft.
Mike, you know something about this?
I know nothing about Microsoft, and I like to keep it that way.
Okay.
You seem really eager to say that.
Does anybody have information on the Microsoft settlement?
Okay.
Nobody here has information on that.
So let's move on to free ISPs.
The personal computer people might know about the Microsoft thing.
Free ISPs?
Do we use free ISPs?
I don't know of any anymore.
I know there was one.
I mean, there was one dial-up one in New York, but the last I heard about that was like two years ago.
I mean, there are things like Juno.
They're free.
There used to be.
Like, Net Zero used to be free.
It was based on advertising, and now they just offer cheap Internet access.
It's not free, though.
It's like $10 a month.
There are things like Hotmail to get e-mail, but that's not a full Internet provider.
I don't know of any free dial-up providers.
Okay.
Does Yahoo provide an ISP?
Yeah.
I probably have a dial-up service for $10 a month or something, $12 a month.
Okay.
What about Wi-Fi?
If you're near, maybe you could use your Internet connection with a wireless connection through your neighbor if you ask their permission.
Yeah, just go to the New York Times.
I'm sure they'll give you all the information you need on that.
All right.
Phone call.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yes, Mike.
Also, some public libraries can hook you up if you ask around.
That's true.
That's true.
A lot of public libraries do offer that service.
And good evening.
You're on the air.
All right.
None of that.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi.
Go ahead.
I wanted to, I don't know if you have the time for this, but to tell you an interesting story about what happened to me when I tried to take pictures in Rockefeller Park, which is on the Hudson River.
Okay.
I was taking pictures of this girl, Frisbeeing, and she didn't like the fact that I was taking pictures, so she came over and she told me to stop.
And I told her, look, you're in a public park.
Anything you do, you have anonymity, but you don't have privacy in a public park, so go and tell the cops.
So she did, and the cops came and told me that if I wasn't leaving, they were going to arrest me.
So I did take their badges down, and I had a long discussion with them, and I am considering my options in terms of what to do.
Interesting.
I can see a lot of different sides to this story, because if you're being targeted by somebody who keeps taking your picture, even though you have no expectation of privacy in a public park, I can see why you might feel a little threatened, you know, like you're being harassed or stalked or something like that.
But did she have the right to call a cop and have you kicked out or have you ordered not to take any pictures?
That's a good question.
Any thoughts from our panel on this?
I don't think she had any legal rights, but if you're taking someone's picture and they ask you to stop, it's only polite to grant their wish.
Exactly.
But just like you said, you have the right to take pictures without anybody's consent in a public situation.
If you go to a public park and you just stare at somebody, you sit across from them and you just keep staring at them, obviously you have the right to do that, but can the cops say, please stop staring at this person?
You're freaking them out, you know?
I don't know.
Is there a legal basis in that?
Good question.
So that's all I wanted to say.
All right.
Well, you have something to think about.
Thanks for doing that.
We didn't have enough already.
Good evening.
Oops.
Let's try that one.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
With the bridges and the bike ped paths, the Manhattan Bridge, she can go on either side any time of day or night.
Same with any of the bridges between Queens and Manhattan.
Maybe it's because you're not crossing from one state to another.
Maybe it's a federal thing.
It's because it's run by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the George Washington Bridge, and the other is run by the city.
And the Port Authority is a bunch of nincompoops.
That's the reason.
Okay.
I knew there was a logical reason behind this.
Because I could drive a car on the bridge, stop, get out, and then do my terrorist act.
That's okay.
Oh, I can't believe you just gave out that information on the air.
Let alone drive a truck filled with what in it.
But you can't drive your bike or walk on it.
No, no, no.
That's dangerous.
Yeah, because you can drive a bike hauling explosives and no one's going to notice.
I always mold my explosives into bike parts.
I don't know about you guys.
Well, that's what makes you different.
The two people I would suggest contacting, because I already did this, is Senator in the State Senate, because it's a state-chartered entity.
The Corporations, Authorities, and Commissions Committee.
That's the Corporations, Authorities, and Commissions Committee.
There's Vincent Lebel in the Senate.
L-E-I-B-E-L-L.
And you can turn that into an e-mail address if you're smart enough to know the domain name, senate.state.ny.us.
And then in the Assembly, Richard Brodsky, B-R-O-D-S-K-Y.
He's a really good guy.
He's from Westchester.
But his address is B-R-O-D-S-K-R at assembly.state.ny.us.
So I hope folks will drop them lines and ask them to pester the Port Authority to rescind this absurdity.
Okay.
Thank you.
Thanks for the info.
I imagine if you're feeling really up to it, you could also write your own state representatives and maybe even the Port Authority directly.
And write to us.
Let us know if you hear of anything ridiculous like that, which I'm sure is a lot of going around now.
Or you can send us paper mail at offthehookair of WBAI, 120 Wall Street, New York, New York.
1-0-0-0-5.
Sorry about that.
You okay, Jim?
I'm fine.
I was thinking about something.
Well, that's a first.
All right.
And this programming reminder, next week our show begins a half hour late.
It also ends a half hour late.
So basically we're just shifting half an hour.
It's part of the whole RNC business going on.
So tune in next week at 730.
730 until 830.
That's when we're going to be on next week.
And the week after that I believe we're preempted because of the RNC, which suits us fine because we're going to be out causing trouble, right?
Or at least reporting on trouble.
All right.
I'm going to close out with yet more Newfoundland music.
This is from a band called Figgy Duff, which is very famous over there.
Stay tuned for the Personal Computer Show.
We'll be back next week again, 730 to 830.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.
Good night.