But there's one holdout.
As FSRN's Andrew Stelzer reports from Tampa, more than 20 social justice groups in Florida
have formed the Coalition for Fair Adoption and are determined to tear down a 27-year-old
law that they say accomplishes nothing more than hurting children and breaking up happy
families.
I am a mama in every way that matters.
Kathy James is with gay parents of Tampa Bay.
She's the partner of a woman who has a four-year-old son.
Yet if my partner of 10 years, his biological mom, died tomorrow, every one of you that
is heterosexual would be eligible to adopt him, and I would not.
My son would be placed in the foster care system and cost the taxpayers of Florida tens
of thousands of dollars over the next 14 years.
I would not even have the legal standing to request visitation.
This is a family values issue if ever there was one.
There are two main types of families that are restricted because of Florida's ban on
gay adoption, same-sex couples and people who want to adopt foster children who have
no biological parents in their lives.
Becky Steele is with the Tampa ACLU.
Florida's adoption ban serves no legitimate public purpose.
This law was passed in 1977 at the height of Anita Bryant's anti-gay campaign.
The purpose of the law was not to protect children, but rather to punish people for
being homosexual.
The Senate sponsor even said, we're trying to send a message.
We're really tired of you.
We wish you'd go back in the closet.
Gay people are allowed to be foster parents in Florida, which Steele says shows that the
state recognizes they can be good parents.
In some cases, judges have awarded unusual permanent foster parent designations to same-sex
couples to circumvent the law.
There are currently more than 4,500 children eligible for adoption in the state of Florida.
Opponents of the gay adoption ban, like Steele, say these children are being denied loving
homes.
The only group of people who are categorically banned from adopting are gay people.
Not child abusers, not substance abusers, not even terrorists are categorically barred
from adoption.
Single people can adopt.
What the courts are asked to do for every other category except for gay people is what
should be done.
Examine adoptions on a case-by-case basis.
And you can hear the rest of Free Speech Radio News tonight at 1130.
Time now for Off the Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving.
Now I can't make a call.
We couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving.
Now I can't make a call.
We couldn't get much worse.
But if they could, they would.
One diddly-bum for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
One diddly-bum!
And a very good evening to everybody on this, the 8th day of December, 2004.
Off the Hook is the name of the program.
We're here with you for the next hour or so with a full cast of characters.
And it's going to be interesting next few weeks because a bunch of us are going to be
traveling in various parts of the world and we'll have those kinds of radio shows where
we try to somehow pull it together from opposing ends of the planet.
Bernie S. joins us from Philadelphia.
Bernie, how are you?
Good evening, Emanuel.
Now, you're going to be going someplace even stranger than I'm going.
Where are you going this winter?
Well, you're going to Germany for the CCC conference.
I'm actually going to be speaking in Germany at the CCC conference about what happened
on 16th Street, you know, the whole RNC fiasco and how technology played a part in that.
So, yeah, I'm going to be giving a talk on that at the CCC conference.
By the way, the Chaos Communication Congress takes place every year in Berlin
on December 27th, 28th, and 29th.
Same date every year.
Different days, but same date.
It's not too late for people to change everything, to run out on your family
and just get over to Europe and learn something about technology
and meet a whole lot of really cool people, too.
The schedule has been posted.
If you go to ccc.de, you'll find the schedule there.
We have a news story about it also on 2600.
Bernie, you've been to these things in the past, haven't you?
Yes, it's really a worthwhile conference.
There's mixed language.
I mean, some of it's in German, some of it's in English.
What I found interesting is even some of the presentations and panel discussions
which are in German still make sense to you
because on the big screen they project things in a lot of diagrams or code or whatever
and you can really understand what's going on even though they're speaking in German.
Although if you look at the schedule, I think at least, if not more,
half the talks are going to be in English.
I know the one I'm giving is going to be in English.
So there's definitely a lot of material there for people who speak either language to pick up.
And of course, the real education comes from meeting people in the hallways
and just hanging out and playing with computers and things like that.
Plus, just going to a really cool place like Berlin is definitely a fun thing to do in the middle of winter.
RedHack, you did that last year, didn't you?
Yeah, I did. It was an interesting experience. It was a lot of fun.
And Berlin's a great city. I mean, I got to explore that too.
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
So, you know, if you can figure out how to make the airlines work and get cheap fares,
I'm sure you can do that. Just head on over there.
What I found amusing about the conference last year, and I hope they fix it this year,
was that on the schedule, some of the talks, the titles would be in English,
but then the talk would be in German, and vice versa.
The title would be in German and the talk would be in English.
They trick you sometimes, yeah.
But, you know, you can generally tell which ones are going to be in English.
You can tell by the person giving the talk.
If it's in American, it's definitely going to be in English.
And afterwards, if you approach the speaker or speakers at the panel after the talk,
if you didn't understand it, you can talk with them.
Everybody there does speak English.
It's just maybe not all the presentations are in English, but most of them will be, probably.
So you can talk to anybody afterwards and say,
Hey, that was interesting. What more can you tell me about it?
And they'll talk to you in English.
They'll say, K?
Yeah.
Actually, now, I'm going to be going to Portugal on Saturday this week.
And the reason I'm doing that, well, first of all, I've never been to Portugal.
And I've never been to Spain.
So I'm going to be going from Portugal to Spain.
And then from there, through Andorra, into France, and then Holland and Germany.
So I'm going to be doing a whole little tour of parts of Europe that I haven't been to before.
Of course, I've been to Paris and to Holland and to Germany.
But Portugal and Spain and Andorra, I know virtually nothing about these countries.
I've done a little bit of research, and I know that they speak Brazilian and Portugal.
Something amusing?
This is actually not quite true, in that apparently,
Brazilian Portuguese and Portugal Portuguese are somewhat different.
Oh, you're right, except you mean Portuguese Brazilian, is what you're trying to say.
Yeah, yeah. Something like that.
Look at a map. Brazil is ten times the size of Portugal.
Who do you think dominates?
I mean, you know, they speak American here.
In a good part of the world, they speak American.
They don't speak English.
They'll have to play a soccer game or something. Fight it out.
And then I did some research on Andorrians.
And my goodness.
Those are the blue-skinned people?
Yeah, you know about the blue skin?
And they have the little things on their heads?
What's up with that?
These are the people who live in that little tiny country?
No, in the little tiny country, it's Andorrans.
What do they look like?
Much like us.
That's scary, too.
Except a lot of them speak French or Spanish.
If anyone is in any of these countries,
and you're not completely turned off
to the idea of meeting up with
people from the computer hacker world,
shoot us an email, oth at 2600.com.
We'll be in places like Portugal,
and Spain, and Andorra,
and France, and Germany, and Holland.
And Bernie,
you're going where?
Well, instead of the CCC Congress this year,
I decided to do something different,
and I'm going to Bangkok
for New Year's.
That's far away, isn't it?
It's rather far, but I will be there
during the Wednesday of one of our shows,
so we'll be able to call in
and discuss what's going on over there.
There's an interesting
series of events going on over there
right now, which I didn't know until
after I got my tickets.
Revolution or something?
Yeah, in the southern area,
down near Malaysia,
there were Islamic separatists
protesting their treatment.
The government threw about 80 of them
in the back of a truck,
and almost all of them suffocated.
The whole country was really upset about that,
and there were rumors of more unrest.
So what the government did
is they encouraged everyone
to fold little paper origami
cranes, you know,
like you did back when you were a kid.
They got 120 million of these
paper cranes folded,
and they loaded them into 50
military planes, and they flew around
the country and dropped 120 million
paper birds
all over the place.
The prime minister signed one of them,
and if you found that one, you got a free
college education.
You've got to be kidding. You're making all this up.
It's ridiculous, but this is true.
Can you imagine our government, instead of dropping bombs,
dropping millions of little paper folded birds
to try to calm people down?
Laced with cyanide or something?
Yeah, I could imagine that, Jim.
Are you aware, Bernie, of the ironic twist
that this story took?
Yes, it didn't go the way they wanted.
Well, not only that, but a number of people
who were waiting in some location
for the cranes to drop
were killed by an abandoned
bomb, or mine.
Oh, that's terrible.
Almost as bad as the WKRP turkey drop.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, that was well-intentioned, at least.
That's awfully ironic.
I didn't hear about that.
So, Bernie, you're going to Thailand.
When are you actually going to be there?
I'll be there
towards the end of CCC.
I'm leaving on the 29th,
so I'll be getting there
New Year's Eve day, the 31st,
in the morning, and we'll be there
for about 10 days.
Okay, well, it'll be a challenge definitely
hooking all of us together.
A number of us will be here in the studio,
so hopefully it will go smoothly.
Now, as far as what's been going on
in the news over the past week or so,
Bernie, what's all this about
the intelligence bill and the Department
of Homeland Security and secrecy and all that?
What's going on?
A lot of people are calling it the lack
of intelligence bill, which the Bush
administration was really against
and said, hey, we really got to do something about this.
But, in any case,
what's been going on
recently with the Department
of Homeland Security
is they're making everybody who works there sign these
non-disclosure agreements,
basically swearing
everyone at the Department of Homeland Security
to secrecy,
that they can't talk about anything,
even if it's not classified,
anything that they do
at the Department of Homeland Security,
as opposed to being open so you can know
what's going on and what you should look out for.
They're like, nobody can talk about anything.
So, what
many
people in the current administration
tried to do with this 901 Commission
is they tried to slip in something
that would add this entirely new
information classification
level
on government
information that would
virtually rubber stamp a classified
label
on almost anything
the government does.
Fortunately, that did not
get signed into law because
Senator Pat Leahy
from Vermont worked his butt
off to get this thing out of
the 9-1-1
Act
that was just signed, the Reform Act,
the Intelligence Reform Act.
Fortunately, we don't have this whole new layer
of secrecy, official layer of secrecy,
but unofficially, they're
making people that work for the government
sign nondisclosure agreements and saying
you can't talk about anything, which is kind of like
it's kind of interesting
like reporters.
I'm wondering if you're going to be subpoenaed next
to give up your sources
and risk getting
locked up. It's all kinds of crazy stuff
going on with information and the government's
paranoia about talking about
anything.
It certainly seems like a trend.
An unfortunate one at that.
All right, we'll be keeping
an eye on that story, obviously, as it
progresses. I guess this
lack of intelligence bill will be passed by the
Senate tonight, maybe, or
next day or so? It's a done deal. They got
over the whole driver's license. The whole thing
holding it up is the states didn't want to
put in a standardized
driver's license format
because it would allow
undocumented
aliens to have
certain
privileges and that sort of thing. So that finally
got scuttled. Actually, I'm glad it got scuttled because
we're moving towards a national
identity card. If the federal government
can dictate all the
requirements for a driver's license, then effectively
that's a national ID card.
It sounds a lot like countries that we don't
want to be reminded of. I think, you know,
I mean, I'm
going to fight this with every fiber of my being,
but I think it's inevitable that they're going to eventually push
this through. Yes.
You have to start thinking what it's going to be like,
that kind of society.
Here's interesting bit of
information. Cyberterrorism could
be the most devastating weapon of mass
destruction yet and could
cripple the U.S. economy. That's according to
former CIA director Robert Gates.
He told a terrified
conference. Excuse me,
a terrorism conference.
Sorry.
Mr. Gates, who became...
This
sentence doesn't make any sense. Mr. Gates, who became
cited as...
He became something, apparently. He cited as an
example the love bug virus
that overwhelmed computer
systems around the world in 2000.
And this is a quote from him. When a teenage
hacker in the Philippines overnight
can wreak 10 billion U.S.
dollars in damage,
and then it says in parentheses 12.8
billion dollars, so maybe he was lying. I don't know.
To the U.S. economy by implanting
a virus. Oh, this is a story from Australia.
I'm sorry, so those are 12.8 billion Australian
dollars. Okay, 10 billion U.S. dollars
in damage to the U.S. economy by implanting
a virus. Imagine what a
sophisticated, well-funded effort
to attack the computer base of our economy
could accomplish, Mr. Gates said
while addressing the conference at Rice
University. Even before 2000,
the United States seemed an easy
cyberterrorism target. The
CIA and National Security Agency had conducted an
exercise six years ago assigning
50 computer specialists to see how hard it would
be to shut down the nation's electric
grid. It took only two days
for the group to put itself in a position to do
so, according to Mr. Gates.
All you have to do is
look at what happened in the Northeast when you had a tree
fall in a line in rural Ohio, he
said, referring to
a blackout that affected cities from Detroit to
New York last year. What I am
talking about is bringing the U.S.
economy to its knees.
Oh, I'm sorry, there wasn't a
maniacal laugh there. I inserted
it there. Yes,
so he's getting
everybody all scared about that.
You know, I've found, and I think everybody else
here at the radio station
at the show, the hard
part is actually getting your computer to
interface with your robot saw
to bring down the tree to hit
the power lines. I mean, come on,
this is so absurd.
I mean, it's power
lines causing this. It's lightning strikes
in 1965. But Jim, what if a hacker
did it? Isn't that an excuse to have
more laws, more draconian laws? Because
a hacker could have done that.
And he could have done it so much better. And it could have been
C4 in Bernie's basement too.
That's right. And that's a reason for
there to be stricter laws.
Right, Bernie?
He understands.
We've been hearing this for how many
years? Actually, over
a decade we've been hearing these
paranoid fears about
cyber terrorism
and the country's infrastructure
to be brought to a grinding halt by a
hacker. Has it happened yet? No.
Could it have happened by now?
If it could have, I'm sure
it would have by now. And
there's plenty of ne'er-do-wells
out there that aren't terrorists but
just would want to see if they could do this.
I just don't think it's that big a threat.
It's interesting. On Slashdot there was
a poll as to the biggest threat of the
Internet. And
I think some of the choices were
bureaucracy,
the government,
hackers, and a
backhoe. And hackers
were last as far as
what people believed was the
risk. Backhoe was pretty significant
actually. So I think
that sort of represents most people don't
really see hackers as the major threat. Of course
the government does. And it plays into their whole
fear factor thing where it
pays to get people afraid of a certain group of people
so they can pass even stricter
laws. It's not that most people
don't see them as a threat. It's that most people in the know
don't see them as a threat. Yeah.
Most people who have any kind of knowledge whatsoever
on the subject. Look, it's pretty
clear what we need to do. What's that?
We have to outlaw backhoes.
Yeah, you know, I was going to bring that up.
But there's a strong lobby. We need a good
lobby for the hackers like the backhoe people
have a lobby for their
instruments of destruction. But
speaking about the hacker threat,
there's an amazing editorial that ran
in this magazine
or website called Tech Decisions
for Insurance.
Tech Taddler,
cybercrime, where is the outrage?
Hackers are training within
our borders in how to participate in
terrorism. By staying silent,
we condone it. When D.W. Griffith's
epic silent film, The Birth of a Nation, debuted
in 1915, it engendered a
storm of outrage protests so powerful
it continues to this very day.
I saw some before. The outrage
came in response to the way in which the film
denigrated post-civil
war southern blacks and celebrated
the Klan as American heroes.
In large part because both blacks and whites
have raised strong objections to these depictions
in the years since its opening, the film
today is widely viewed as a milestone
in cinematic achievement and a low point
in U.S. race relations. Okay,
what does this have to do with hackers? Outrage
or righteous anger is the normal response
when events strike us as shocking
or morally objectionable.
But what can we say when our society
not only fails in efforts to contain
criminal activity, but allows it
to be actively promoted?
Yeah.
The criminal activity I'm referring to is
hacking, the unauthorized
computer system break-ins that
may result in anything from
some annoying graffiti
on a webpage, to data theft,
to extortion demands from those
who do the breaking.
And how is such activity promoted?
Believe it or not, hackers have their own
trade shows and conventions
and the programs read like
something out of Kafka.
Take, for example, The Fifth Hope,
hackers on planet Earth.
That was ours, wasn't it?
The convention held this past July in New York.
The event, now apparently
in its fifth incarnation,
is sponsored by 2600.
They're good.
Actually, technically, The Fifth Hope
isn't in its fifth incarnation. Hope is,
but never mind. We won't get them on that.
Sponsored by 2600, a magazine
devoted to hackers and their activities.
Perusing the program for the conference,
one sees a session on the IBM
AS400 system that promises
quote, to show where interesting
data can be found and where possible
weaknesses are in the system, unquote.
The course is taught
by one stank dog,
obviously his real name,
who is alleged to be
a quote, senior programmer
slash analyst who has worked for Fortune 500
companies and large universities, unquote.
He also is the founder of
the Digital Dog Pound, a hacker group.
Maybe he works for your company
right now.
Then, there's Bypassing Corporate Restrictions
from the Inside, which deals with
potential security implications and measures
that should be considered whenever you
compromise your own company's infrastructure.
In other words, here are ways to cover
your tracks when you commit this crime.
This class is taught by Barbwire,
no, not the buxom blonde
heroine of comic and cinema fame, but supposedly
a male IT worker from Australia.
Not criminal enough
for you? How about the session on lockpicking?
Yeah, picking locks,
says the conference program, is becoming
popular as a sport slash hobby
among hackers throughout the world. In a special
two-hour session, the joy of lockpicking
will be explained and demonstrated from basic
techniques to the state-of-the-art. And that's
not all. There's also a lockpicking workshop
ongoing throughout the conference and the staging
of a lockpicking championship. And you
thought you had to go to one of those TV technical schools
to learn a good paying trade.
Outraged yet?
Listen to the description of the session on
Terrorism and Hackers. This presentation
will put forth a full range of
activities in which hackers can apply their skills
to achieve goals related to the
systematic use of violence to create a
general climate of fear in a population
and thereby to bring about a particular
political objective. According to
Britannica.com, that's the definition of terrorism.
This schizoid session
includes, quote, specific ways for hackers to
combat terrorism, unquote, and, quote,
how hackers might actually participate in
terrorism, unquote. The session
blurb adds, I think this one probably is required
for Al-Qaeda members.
Boy, this person really did a
great job reading the brochure.
Incredibly, the session description asks
what can we do to protect against hackers
being misperceived as threats
and terrorists? Obviously, not
enough. Here's a hint.
Stop teaching hackers how to be terrorists
and teaching terrorists how to be hackers.
America and the rest of the world were rightly
outraged when they heard news of terrorist training camps
in places such as Afghanistan and Iraq.
Yet there is barely a peep from anyone when
criminal and terrorist tactics are taught within
our own borders. Are we to believe
homegrown burglars, cyber
criminals, and terrorists are somehow less
harmful? How can we justify
the training of lawbreakers and
terrorists in our own country? Is this to
be labeled as free speech, or
is it the educational equivalent of yelling
fire in a crowded movie theater where
no fire exists? You know, I'm glad
I'm glad this person added the
where no fire exists part. No one ever adds that.
What is happening is wrong.
Where is the outrage? And that was written by
Ara C. Tremblay, technology
editor for National Underwriters
Property Slash Casualty and Life Slash
Health Editions.
I would like to make a special offer
to Mr. Tremblay.
I will send Mr. Tremblay
a copy in the
format of his choice, a video
or audio or whatever,
the terrorism and
hacker panel, and then
he can report back to me on how this
aids terrorists. I don't think he actually
looked at any, I don't think he went to the conference.
Well, I'm just making an offer in case he wants
to even better inform himself so that he
I guess he works in the insurance
so he can determine better the risk.
But I think this demonstrates how
this whole cyber terrorism thing is being
moved up by creating
a climate of fear. And yeah, people will equate
what hackers do with what terrorists
do and it's a very dangerous time for people
who are curious about technology.
Yes, Bernie?
You know, his diatribe reminds me of
something I read in
second grade in the weekly reader
where a writer
deliberately wrote
an article about the evils of ice cream.
And it was really convincingly
written. And it dawned on me
then, reading this in second grade
or maybe third grade, whatever, that
you could make anything sound terrifying no matter
how harmless or good it was.
And this guy is
a great example of just
the most yellow kind of journalism
that one could ever run across.
What's fear-mongering? Nothing short of fear-mongering.
You know, I asked people who went to the conference
did you learn something from it or did you come away
convinced that hackers were going to
destroy the world?
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe that's
the message we're sending out.
But I'd like to hear feedback on that.
Yes, Jim? I think we should send Mr. Tremblay
everything we've got from the conference
and along with
our objections to
his editorial
there. And I want to point out to him that
I'm sure the Naval War College
or the National War College, rather,
has courses
that resemble the terrorism and hacking
one in great detail.
And I defy
well, maybe Mr. Tremblay,
I defy anybody to make a case
that the attendees,
the flag officers
of our armed forces, are as a consequence
terrorists.
Let's have all the left-wingers
be quiet on this one.
But the point is this, because
someone else does it, it's a matter of
national security and it's educating
the attendees.
If we do it, we are training them
to join Al-Qaeda. Absurd.
All right, I think we definitely can agree on that.
Okay, let's take a look at some other
news items that have been taking place.
Some internet shoppers who tried
to visit Amazon.com on Monday were unable
to access the popular book, electronic, and
toy sales website due to an undisclosed
problem which produced the error message
http://1.1
service unavailable
on and off during the day.
It's just the fact that we have a very complicated system
that has problems from time to time, spokesman
Craig Berman said.
He would not say if the problem was due to volume,
an internal error, or an intrusion
of some sort. Now why is this even
news? Explain this to me.
A website goes down.
Thank you. Thank you for doing that.
Another case of blaming it on hackers.
Well, it's not blaming it on hackers
by name, but definitely by
inference. Exactly, you're thinking it
might be hackers. Of course, you're thinking it.
Somebody probably kicked out a power cord someplace.
That's how most of these
problems happen in the first place.
A hacker kicked out a power cord.
Yeah, maybe.
Okay, here's a couple of
other silly stories. Scientists said
on Monday they've come up with a cell phone cover
that will grow into a sunflower when thrown
away. Yeah.
Materials
Company, I can
only spell it, PVAXX,
research and development at the request
of U.S.-based mobile phone maker
Motorola has come up with a
polymer that looks like any other plastic
but which degrades into soil when
discarded. It's totally
biodegradable and non-toxic
plastic, said spokesman Peter
Morris. And I
guess somewhere in there is a sunflower seed.
Otherwise, I'd like to know how a sunflower grows.
There's a little window and they put whatever.
It's not necessarily a sunflower seed. It could be a different
kind of plant. It could be a pot seed.
That's what you were implying.
No. I saw it in your eyes.
It could be any kind.
They would have different kinds of flowers
and then the whole thing, when you bury it,
would break down and the seed
would germinate.
Some bizarre hybrid phone
type of plant. When your phone dies,
you bury it out back
along with your dead animals
and you get a nice little flower.
The thing is you can't do that.
You can only bury the case because
the actual phone itself
is made out of very toxic heavy
metals. And they'll kill the sunflower
right away. They'll kill not only the sunflower
but the population.
The local population.
Or the sunflower might ingest some of that
poison and then start spewing it forth
into the atmosphere.
Who's behind this again, Emmanuel?
A company that's name I can't pronounce. That's probably a tactic
of theirs. PVAXX.
If you can pronounce that,
feel free.
They're in Holland.
I know that much. The one application this might have
is that a lot of phones now have
interchangeable covers and all that.
If you don't like your cover anymore,
you can go bury it out back.
Give it a little gravestone.
How about this? Instead of the usual
dial-tone callers to US mobile carrier
Verizon Wireless, subscribers may soon
find themselves listening to a song
until the phone is answered.
The service pioneered by SK
Telecom of Korea is debuting
in the US and California. It's slated
to be available nationally by mid-2005.
Verizon Wireless
will be charging $1.25
a month plus an annual fee
of $1.99 for each ringback
tone chosen.
Other US carriers are said to be considering
a similar service.
Okay.
Basically what this means
is that, I don't know
what this means. This means people calling into
Verizon Wireless will hear musical
tones? I think it means when you call
someone, instead of hearing a ringing noise, you'll hear
a song. It's rather confusing
because it says callers to
US mobile carrier Verizon Wireless
may soon find themselves listening to a song.
That means they're going to change the actual
sound of the ring. You'll
know you're calling a mobile phone then.
I like the idea of that. I'm not sure
I like the idea of hearing a crazy type of ring.
I thought this was a ring that the person
using the phone would hear.
It makes more sense to me that they would
change the way the ring sounds to the person using
a mobile phone. You can do that now.
You can change your ringers
to be whatever you want. I don't mean the ringer
of your phone. I mean if you're making an outgoing call
on your phone. It could change
the sound of that ring. How would they charge
you if it's someone calling you?
I don't understand that. I think it's
probably the one you call out. That's what I would think
but it says clearly here. That would get
really annoying if you heard the same song over and over
again every time you made a phone call.
One thing I do like
is the possibility that rings
the sound of a ring can
change and can be something different.
Do you remember back in the old days before we had
electronic switching everywhere? Rings sounded
different. You don't remember, do you? Rings sounded
different. You had deep baritone
rings. You had scratchy rings. You had
all kinds of strange sounds with crossbar
and step systems and everything
today just sounds the same. Now you can call
England and the ring will sound different. You can call
Europe. It'll sound different over there. Japan
sounds crazy but
it used to be that every central
office had its own unique sound. I'd like to see
a return to those days. That's because it was all mechanical.
It was all mechanical but why can't you still have a
different sounding ring? That way you know if you're
calling California or say
you know, Arkansas. Maybe they
sound different. We could
go retro and have recordings of
instead of songs have recordings of those old central
office ring generators. That would be great
but you know what? We're probably going to have advertising
instead. That's what I predict is going to happen.
Verizon tried it back in the days of
Bell Atlantic. Actually before that Bell
Pennsylvania did a study. It was working for a market research
firm back in the 80s and
they hired us to do
a study to interview
thousands of people to find out what the reaction would be
to hearing advertisements
spoken advertisements in the
four second silence
gap between the rings when you're hearing a phone
ring.
I remember our respondents
were like overwhelmingly against having
to hear these ads. So they
never did it but they've been trying to
sneak this through for years. As soon as they find
some respondents that they can drug and get to
agree to it, they're going to do it. Yes Jim?
It could be useful. You know how you have
multiple ringtones on your phone
identifying who the caller is calling
you. You could have this so that
in the dark you could have various
people that you would dial and
assign a song to each of them. If you're
dating multiple people, it could be our
song, different songs hopefully for each
of them. If you're dialing the police
it could be themed from Hawaii 5-0
so you know it's there. What would you use it for? To see
who you called? To know who you called. If you're dialing
in the dark. But you're ringing their phone. If you're dialing in the dark
do you ring people's phones to figure out who they are?
No, no, no. You're going to annoy them because they're going to
see who you are. It's what you hear.
In case you forget who you just called.
But they're going to hear the phone ringing
in their ear. Their own phone is going to
ring when you call that. You don't care about
other people. You know Jim, I'd like to
make a demonstration here and the
listening audience I realize can't see this but this is my
telephone and I'm about to dial
and it lights up so I can see very well who
I'm calling. You know you just can't stop showing
off that phone. It's got a flashlight attached to it.
Yes, I know. It's brilliant light.
The Swiss Army phone.
Should have gotten that phone. Okay, we had a lot of feedback
to our talk about the MTA
camera ban
and Mike you forwarded something about
a demonstration that's coming up. Yes, I did.
Now this is taking place
I believe on
December 18th at 1pm
and
do you know who these people are that are
organizing this? That would be a Saturday.
I have no clue. So you might
want to do some research before
you go. But they have a
website which is
photowrites.mtude.com
That's
p-h-o-t-o
r-i-g-h-t-s
dot m-t-u-d-e
dot com. Okay.
Now what are they asking
people to do? Bring cameras I assume?
They would like you to
check their website shortly before
the time which is 1pm on the
18th and
on their website they will post their
location. So they don't have the location yet? This is like
one of those flash mob things. It's a
secret location until it's publicly announced.
I don't understand
why it has to be a secret location. Why not
be very open and public about this and say
you know. The theory I guess
is that it will deter the police but the police
can just check the website at the same time as
the participants so I'm not really sure. Yeah, I don't
get that. The other thing
I think a very effective way of
protesting this if it does go through and we're not
sure yet if and when it will
is just to have a camera day where
you get people all over the city just to show up
with cameras and to start shooting at a certain
time. You know it sounds dangerous I know
but you know it's basically a big
sort of civil disobedience thing
all throughout the city. How do they
possibly track that? You don't know who's going to be
taking pictures where.
Okay.
So that's taking place December
18th 1pm someplace.
Can you say that website one more time?
photowrites.m-t-u-
d-e.com
Okay.
How do you spell photowrites?
The word photo P-H-O-T-O
and then writes R-I-G-H-T-S
with no punctuation.
Alright.
I enjoy your program and
love that intro music. Most of the tech
topics leave me feeling bereft of education
although I hear other issues that are timely and urgent.
Whatever.
One topic
though especially caught my attention
New York City's MTA's
proposal to ban photography on the subway.
What a rich source of humanity
rides there including you and
I, tourists and citizens alike.
The subway is New York City. I have been traveling
six months this year taking photos on trains
planes, ferry boats and on highways
and cars and trucks here and in Europe.
America alas is transportation
although usually not of a mass type
unless the auto can be accurately construed as such.
Why can we not
image our lives authority or not?
This proposal if passed is just another grappling hook
in Big Brother's burgeoning bag of tricks.
How many times have we the citizen
gone to the Metropolitan Museum of Art to see the
photos of the world, our world, caught candidly
or to the Gray Art Gallery of NYU
where a recent show exhibited some of the
ingenious devices made by photographers
to make candid shots on the street
and subways of New York City in the 30s
and 40s. Yeah, let's make another
law, another prohibition.
Bah humbug. This photo law will prevent
nothing but freedom of speech and yet another way.
My question is, where are
those institutional voices protesting this
pathetic proposal of the MTA?
Hopefully they'll be speaking
up soon. Thanks RJF
for sending in those opinions.
And this person writes in, although I agree with you that the
banning of cameras in the train system sucks
I would like to point out one fact that you overlooked
earlier in the show. You said that
there's never been a terrorist attack on a train system
and then corrected yourself and said in this city
it is true that it has never happened in the USA
but there was a terrorist attack on a train system in
Spain. I just wanted to point that out. Well actually
I wasn't correcting myself
I think you got the quote a little bit
wrong. I was saying that there
was never surveillance taken
by people in this city that
you know, taking pictures of
trains that led to a terrorist act
in this city. I said in this city not as a
correction but because that's what I'm familiar with.
It could have happened someplace else. I'm not aware if the Madrid
bombings had people taking pictures of
trains first. It doesn't seem like you would need to take pictures
of a train to plant a bomb on it
but who knows. You could
sketch drawings or something or just have a
photographic memory. There's all kinds of ways.
Alright.
And one other
transit note
This is in regards
to the MTA research we're doing
This is something you might
want to put a hacker's mind to. The London
Transport Oyster Card
Yeah, they're plastic numbered
cards which have a linked balance.
The cards are issued by TFL
that's Transport for London
They let you put a micropayment balance
on them and pay for tube and bus tickets just
by swiping them over a reader. I'm not
sure how they work. They might be RFID or some
kind of magnetic deal. What I do know is that
there are terminals which let you put money onto them
and then you can do it over the web. Slightly
scarier, you can swipe the card on a machine
and get a complete list of the last 10
journeys on the tube or bus.
Also, you can use it as a season ticket
for week-long tickets
or even longer.
I don't know if this is any use and you all would probably need
to come and play with the machines in order to have some fun.
Anyway, enjoy the show.
Now I've got something to listen to on the aforementioned
transport systems while commuting to university.
Signed, Tom.
Well, Redbird, any thoughts on that
particular system? Something similar?
Well, it should be fairly easy to see whether or not it was a magnetic stripe
or RFID. Just, you know, you could tell
easily if there's a magnetic stripe but
it's kind of scary that everything's all linked together
like that and as soon as you
add some
balance online, they'll know exactly where
you're coming from. Do you think we'll reach the stage
here in New York where you'll be able to look
at the last 10 rides on a machine?
Probably not publicly.
But I'm sure the MTA can do it.
The MTA can probably do that now? I'm positive.
Do you think they can do it? I know darn well they can.
Really? The last 10 rides? That easily?
Well, I don't know.
How do they trace you on a bus?
They know what bus and they know what time
but they don't know which way the bus is going.
Or what station you got on.
Or where you got on, exactly.
Now, with the current cards,
they don't keep the history on the card
but there's some record on the card
of the last trip?
Yeah.
Because when you mail it in...
You can go and if you go to a booth
and have the clerk in the booth swipe it
either you swipe it externally
or they swipe it internally, it will list
the last use, place, and time.
Okay. Interesting.
Interesting stuff. How goes the research, Redbird?
Oh, it's going pretty well.
Do we need anything else from people?
I just want to thank everybody who sent in
all the cards so far. We've gotten quite a bit of
miscellaneous cards.
You know, anything that's not common
is what we're still looking for.
And if you can send that in, that'd be great.
Address?
2600 P.O. Box 99, Middle Island, New York
11953.
Anything that's not paper ride, anything that's not
unlimited single ride, anything that's not
common, basically. Stuff that you can't find
lying around.
We've gotten some student cards, which are helpful.
We've gotten all kinds of interesting
looking ones. Anything specific that we're
looking for right now?
Not specifically.
Like I said, any non-common cards still.
We did learn something interesting
over the past few weeks
and that's every station
obviously has its station ID
right on top of the token booth.
It's a booth ID.
And then every machine has a little four digit
code. Is it a four digit code?
These are all printed on the receipts as well.
You can pretty much find where somebody
got a ticket very easily
by that first number,
the booth ID, and then which machine they used.
And all that information you can find without having to actually
get a receipt
or anything like that. It's all right there.
The one thing,
I guess there's a lot of things we still don't know.
Another thing that's interesting
is the last four
digits that we discussed on an earlier show.
We were trying to figure out what those mean.
And it seems to just be a unique
ID to the station
just to make the last eight digits of
the receipt unique
just so that no other
MVM or MEM will print out the same
last eight digits. And it seems that
MVMs that are grouped together...
MVM being magic card vending machines.
...have incrementing numbers like
070007010702.
And then if, let's say,
there's another group of MEMs or MVMs
on the other side of the station, there'll be
04000401.
It'll be a different first two digits,
but the last two digits will always be incremented.
So we don't know what the first two digits mean.
Why is it 0400 in some cases, 0700 in others?
Right. 0500. There's a bunch of different ones.
It could be a direction or, you know, it could be
just random.
If you know something about this and you'd like to share the information,
oth at 2600.com
or send us MetroCards
or receipts or information to the
aforementioned address.
We also got a lot of feedback on the
Iraq issue, which I don't want to spend
a lot of time on at all, but
it is something that some of our listeners are
interested in. Today was the first day I listened
to you all. I am from Texarkana,
Texas. That's a cool place.
It's right by Texas and Arkansas.
I began listening because of the coverage
on the meeting for investigating the Ohio
voter fraud. I agree with everything
you said about Iraq. We invaded Iraq just like we were
invaded on September 11th. The only difference is
we stayed and continued to destroy both life and property.
If this had happened in the U.S.,
we would all take up arms and become insurgents.
Parentheses, patriots.
Even those of us who feel Bush is a sham,
we would protect our right to have him as our
leader and would not accept another country telling
us who our leader should be.
Mike, are you nodding or shaking your
head or just grimacing in disgust?
Yes, you'd take up arms
to defend George W. Bush. You know you
would. No.
But I wouldn't take up arms to defend a
president I liked either.
Maybe people should revisit the movie
Red Dawn. Oh, no, please don't do that.
That film was so bad.
The movie is pretty old, but it really shows
how Americans would use guerrilla warfare
to protect our country upon invasion
or from terrorists. How can we close our eyes
to the tragedy that has occurred in Iraq without
putting ourselves in their shoes, especially after the
horrific events of September 11th?
Thanks, Cheryl, for your letter.
You'd be interested to know that in England, that's exactly what
people are demanding to know is what
kind of price has been
paid so far.
How many people have died on the Iraqi
side in addition to
the American-British side.
I like to read the negative letters
more than I like to read the positive letters.
This person says
he does not support the war in Iraq
and do not support the war in Iraq
regardless of whether Emanuel
was right or wrong for what he said, and I believe he is
very, very wrong. Actually, I'm not sure
how you would come to that conclusion if you were against the war, but
never mind.
Off the Hook is hardly the place for those
views. No one I know
will read your magazine or listen to your radio show
citing low signal to uncontrollable
political noise. The impression of
almost anyone I have exposed to your show
or mag is that it is self-aggrandizing
crap with a sprinkling of useful
information. Well, let me just stop
there for a second. If you look at the magazine,
you know, the magazine is different than the radio show.
Much. Yeah, we don't really talk about Iraq
or politics in the magazine.
Thank God.
Regardless of how you feel about that, it's different.
You know, it sounds to me like this
reader or listener or whatever
has made up his mind
as to what we are, and I don't think
anything we say is going to change that.
Let me just continue here.
Perhaps you could try and get back to
perpetuating the free exchange of information.
There are no shortage of news agencies that
spin national and world events to the left or right
without you ruining your show with it.
I haven't found the ones that spin it to the left very much.
I repeat, you are not adding anything useful
to the debate over the war in Iraq. You are merely
alienating listeners and readers.
I've been a reader and listener since 1991
and I will stop doing both if you guys
don't quit wasting my Wednesday evenings with crap I already
saw on CNN, and you aren't bringing a unique
perspective to.
Well, sorry, Johnny. Johnny, I don't know what to
say to this, except that
I don't think we're watching the same media outlets.
If you find somebody who brings a perspective that
is similar to the perspective we
bring here, I'd sure like to know about it.
I do think it's relevant
when a reader writes
in. We were responding to a reader's letter
who was in Iraq, and
I voiced my opinion
and people are welcome to voice their opinion.
We spent no more than five minutes on the whole topic.
That's with all the discussion that followed afterwards.
Hardly a significant
chunk of the show, and that was all
started a week earlier
when I was simply making a point about the,
remember this, the machine gun
surveillance cameras that we were inventing?
That's, you know, technologically...
The webcam that would shoot a deer.
It all started with the webcam that will shoot a deer,
and we were theorizing about how one day
that could be used to enforce martial law by having
machine guns on
buildings, and I was making the point that
we live in a different society than 20 years
ago. 20 years ago, who would have thought
that Marines would be inside mosques shooting people
and cursing? And then that's Jim.
You were the one who started the argument there by defending
that, so I had to
kind of like... Well, I thought the cursing
was kind of a little add-on
pile-on sort of thing. I was just making a point,
all right? I was just making a point. You see all these things? Mushroom.
I was just making a point that we live in a different
society than we did 20 years ago,
and then we got into this whole theological argument about whether
it's right for Marines to be shooting people in mosques.
I still think it's not, but
never mind that. They could at least be polite about it.
They could be. Excuse me, sir.
Here, please receive my bullet or
something like that. I don't know.
But in any event, as long as something's going on
in the world, I think it affects us in some
way. We will try to bring our own unique perspective
to it. When 9-11 happened
down the block, we certainly talked about
that. We've been talking about this MTA
camera ban. That's really...
Theoretically, that's nothing to do
with hacking, but it affects all of us as
people who are interested in freedom and
alternative views and
things like that. So, sorry if you're
alienated, but you know what?
Go make yourself a sandwich and come back, and I'm sure
we'll be talking about something else by then. Mike,
you have something? I was just
going to suggest we should introduce Johnny and
Mr. Tremblay of the earlier article.
They can have a discussion about
things we don't publish. Maybe. Maybe
it gets them really afraid of us.
Yes. I was going to say that the
thing that most bothered me about that letter was
the fact that he was saying we weren't...
I'm not sure if I remember...
weren't original, didn't have
a unique point of view, and I thought that was
the one thing that we definitely did have. Yeah, we have a unique
point of view, I think. Almost. Because nobody ever agrees
with everything we say, anyway.
We also got a letter from the guy
who started all the trouble. Only
kidding. Just heard the archive show.
Didn't mean to make a fuss, just tried to express
an opinion. Hey, that's perfectly okay, and we welcome it.
Real quick here, the payphone
that I sent a picture of is an Iraqi
payphone, not British. The Brits all
use wireless phones in public here, as no one
wants to go digging in the ground for obvious reasons.
The phone resides in what used to be Al-Basra
International Airport. It's now
what, George W. Bush International Airport?
I don't know. Anyway,
that's signed from Will. Thanks, Will, for sending that in, for
continuing to give us your opinions. And, you know, it goes
for anybody over there. We do want to hear from you. We want to hear
your opinions. They are valued as much as anyone's.
And just to
end this discussion and bring it full circle,
hopefully Will can find
us the Arabic word for Wolverines.
Why do you need to know that?
Red Dawn. Oh, yeah, right.
Okay. 212-209-2900
is our telephone number. We have
several minutes for phone calls. Let's see
how many we can get in. Please keep your
comments concise and to the point.
And good evening. You're on the air.
Oh, yes. A couple of
weeks ago, I think your colleague there, Mike,
advocated hitting
Iraq with a neutron bomb.
People are always mixing... Hang on, hang on, hang on.
Hang on. People are always mixing up Mike and Jim.
Now, Mike is... Mike... Which insults
all of us. All right. So, you're talking about
Jim. So, what's your point about Jim?
I don't think he stopped talking.
So, you gotta, like, be, you know,
bidirectional here. Listen as well as
speak.
Hi, Danny here.
Just a quick thing in case you forgot.
We did, in fact, have a terrorist
attempt on the New York City subway
back in July of 97.
Remember the three guys who were caught
in their apartment in Brooklyn? Union Street.
Atlantic Terminal. Well, yeah, they were...
I don't know, but they were hoping to
blow up the Atlantic Terminal. Did they have...
Did they have blueprints or something?
I don't know. They had some
notes. I've been looking, trying
to find
information right now as to what exactly
was in their apartment aside
from the pipe bombs and such.
Fortunately, they were a very
disorganized group. They weren't part
of... It was, so
to speak, international terrorist...
I mean, do you doubt for a second that they
could have been just as organized
or disorganized as they were
without the use of cameras, which
I don't think we even know if they used.
Probably.
The cameras in and of themselves...
This whole case in Brooklyn was a disaster.
Fortunately, we caught the folk in time
basically because their roommate
was a good guy
and found a police officer
and gave them up
before they planted the bombs.
There's a whole history
of how those folk got into this country
and so on, but that's not for now.
That's got nothing to do with cameras.
Take care.
We have this other letter.
We've been using AT&T phone calls for long distance
for a while now.
We are used to
inconvenient pauses,
advertisements, etc.
For example, we buy the cards at Walmart
and normally there's a message when you call the service reminding you
to please shop at Walmart.
This is annoying enough as it is.
Why should we have to endure advertising over and over again?
But imagine our surprise when we called
and found they had added a new advert
slash offer with a bit
more of a political message.
And then they give instructions on how we can hear
this ourselves. So Bernie, please
forgive the dial tone you're about to hear
as I dial this number.
You see this is an 800 number.
You can tell the listeners afterwards.
Okay, now I'm going to turn down
the volume so that
the card number is not heard
over the air. And then we're going to listen
to what is actually
said.
And here we go.
Okay, I know what happened.
One of the numbers wasn't heard.
Hold on.
Hang on, hang on.
You should always do that when somebody
doesn't answer you right away. Repeat the question
in Spanish.
It's great way to
get people to respond quicker.
Here we go.
Okay.
And this person's reaction
is that I can't stand
how this crap is seeping into every
area of our lives. Thanks,
Luis.
I mean, it's a political statement
of sorts, I guess.
I also don't know why the troops
need calling card minutes.
What was it to donate
minutes? Donate money?
Calling card minutes.
With all the money that they have over there, they should
have all the calling card minutes they need.
I know they don't. They should. That's what I'm saying.
But in any event, yeah, I can see how that
could rub somebody the wrong way, especially, you know,
an anti-war activist, maybe. Imagine if it was
the other way around. Imagine if, you know, to donate to
MoveOn or something like that.
I just want to
pounce here, not in a hostile manner,
on your implied thing on
the government should supply this.
But you quickly have people
saying, why should the government
essentially supply
what isn't necessary? I mean, mail
was good enough for World War I and World War II
and the Korean War and
the Civil War, and why don't they just write
letters rather than phone home? That's
something that they should pay for out of their own pocket.
So, you know,
I don't think that
argument is
unreasonable. Well, I think the issue here
is, you know, is that something that
can rub people the wrong way? I don't know.
Not to mention the fact that for what
AT&T probably spent
developing the donate minutes
to the military program, if
AT&T were truly interested in
this clause, they could just give the minutes.
Yeah, that's what I think. I think it's, you know,
certainly enough of the technology has been put
over there where they could probably just run the whole thing for
nothing anyway. Let's try to squeeze in a couple more calls
in the limited time we have, and good evening.
You're on the air. Hello.
I'm working on a
wireless LAN, and I'm picking
up a signal, and
the signal lets
me, like, get onto the internet
sometimes, and sometimes it
doesn't, and I was
wondering if you
guys knew, like, what I could do to make
this, you know, a
little more consistent?
Is it your...
A better antenna would help. Excuse me?
A better antenna might help.
Yeah. Okay.
I got a better antenna, and also
there's another signal on the same channel,
but that signal's encrypted,
and the one I'm picking up,
of course, isn't encrypted.
So basically you're trying to get free internet
access from your neighbor. Is that the idea?
Yeah. I mean, a better
wireless card or antenna
would help with your connection
to their signal. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I see the difference.
I have a computer that's about four years old,
and compared to a computer that's, say,
two years old, the difference is marked as far as picking
up wireless signals. So
yeah, you definitely...
And the OS makes a difference,
too. Some OSs are friendlier
to wireless reception than others.
And as far as encryption goes, if it's
web encryption, it can be broken
given,
you know, it depends
how strong they have it, but it can be broken
eventually. But, you know, if you've got an unencrypted
signal there, just might as well connect
to that. All right. Thanks for that call.
Oh, Mike, you had something? Yes. Another option for
improving the quality of reception is to find
this neighbor and talk to them,
explain what they're doing, and maybe ask them
to locate their
antenna closer to your location.
You know, eventually...
I'm sorry, go ahead, Bernie. I was going to say,
or if you're in Chicago, just go to your
public library. Yeah. They've...
almost every public library in Chicago
now has free wireless
internet access. But it's going to reach the point where,
you know, cities have free internet access
at the Trinidad and Philadelphia,
and I think it's, you know,
it's inevitable that one day you just
are on the net all the time.
I don't know how good that's going to be, but
I think it's something that we're stuck with.
Good evening. You're on the air. Hi.
Hi. This is old Nick. I wanted to talk about
the insurance guy you were
talking about earlier in the show. Yeah, yeah.
Insurance companies and their representatives
don't care about terrorism,
hacking, or national security.
They care about preserving the
corporate treasuries of insurance companies.
Yeah. After 9-11,
they took a big hit.
They've changed a lot of their policies.
Now you have to
have proper security, and
if something can be defined as a terrorist act,
they don't have to pay out.
So if you can get all the hackers to be declared
terrorists, wow!
Very good. Yeah, that's exactly it.
That must be it. So, don't bother
sending them anything.
Okay, thanks. Thanks for that insight.
You're welcome. Bye.
Leave it to BAI listeners to uncover the truth once again.
Okay, well, the truth now
is that we are out of time,
and I won't be here next week, but other people
will be. I mean, I'll be here.
In some form, I'll be calling in from
I think either Portugal or Spain.
And...
Bernie, when do you actually go to Thailand?
The 29th.
Okay, so it'll be a while. I'll be landing
on the 31st. It's a long flight.
Well...
We'll be calling in the following Wednesday.
Alright. Until then, have a good night.
We'll see you next week. OTH at 2600.com.
Enjoy yourself.
It's later
than you think.
Enjoy yourself.
While you're
still in the thing.
The years
go by
as quickly as you wait.
Enjoy yourself.
Enjoy yourself.
It's later than you think.
Hello, hi, I'm Terry, and I'm going
to enjoy myself first.
It's good
to be wise
when you're young.
Cos you can
only be young
but for once.
Enjoy
yourself
and have lots of fun.
So good
I left my friend
and it never dawned.
Enjoy
yourself.
Enjoy yourself.
It's later than you think.
Enjoy
yourself.
While you're still in the thing.
The years
go by
as quickly as you wait.
Enjoy
yourself. Enjoy yourself.
It's later than you
think.
Never write yourself off.
Get wisdom.
Get knowledge
and understanding.
Those three
were given three
by the maker.
Go to school.
Learn the rule.
Don't be no faker.
It's not wise
for you to be
a fool soon.
Enjoy
yourself.
It's later
than you think.
Enjoy yourself.
While you're still
in the thing.
The years go by
as quickly
as you wait.
Enjoy yourself.
Enjoy yourself.
It's later than you think.
Enjoy
yourself.
It's later than you
think. Enjoy
yourself.
While you're still in the
thing. The years
go by
as quickly as
you wait. Enjoy
yourself. Enjoy yourself.
It's later than
you think. Enjoy
yourself.
It's later than
you think. Enjoy
yourself.
While you're still
in the thing. The
years go by
as quickly
as you wait. Enjoy
yourself. Enjoy
yourself. It's later
than you think.
Enjoy yourself.
It's later
than you think.
Enjoy yourself.
Enjoy yourself.
While you're still in the thing.
The years go
by as quickly
as you wait.
Yeah!
Hey!
Wasn't that fantastical
here on WBAI
New York 99.5 FM?
Wow. That's
amazing. I'll tell you.
I just love that kind of great music.
Is that Zydeco?
Oh, the specials. Yeah.
Wow. They were special.
You're listening to WBAI New York
99.5 FM on your
stereo dial. Hold on a second, Joe.
Stay tuned
for the award-winning
Personal
Computer Show
on... Hey, Hank. Look at Hank.
Did you know that it was December
the 8th, 2004?
Exactly 8 pm?
Okay.