Pauline Bartolone, Macmillan, and Eric Klein.
visit our website www.fsrn.org.
In Los Angeles, I'm Aura Bogado.
And this is radio station WBAI in New York.
Time now for Off The Hook.
That's understood. One, two, three, go!
And a very good evening to everybody.
The program is Off The Hook.
Emanuel Goldstein here with you for the next hour,
as we do every Wednesday night.
Joined this week by Jim.
Hello.
Red Hacked.
Hey.
Mike.
Hi.
Red Bird.
Hello.
Arseny.
Hi.
And Walter.
Howdy.
And don't forget Bernie S. and Laszlo over in Germany.
Good evening.
Where's Laszlo?
Laszlo is sleeping.
Oh.
It's one o'clock in the morning here.
Well, that's not very considerate, is it?
Well, we've been through a lot, I'll tell you.
So what are you doing over there in Germany?
Trying to get away from here?
Well, it's getting pretty bad over there.
But in any case, we couldn't even escape
because of how bad it's there with the blizzard.
It took us hours to depart from Kennedy
due to the blizzard.
Air France just couldn't spray enough ice off the plane.
You know, I cannot believe that's when you were trying to travel
was during the crazy surprise blizzard we got yesterday.
You always have really bad luck getting out of here sometimes.
It was unreal.
We were sitting on the tarmac looking out the window,
and it was just insane.
At one point, a small plane that was landing got lost
and landed on the wrong runway,
and it just screwed up the whole airport
because the plane couldn't seem to find its way back
to where it was supposed to go.
So we didn't take off until about three hours later,
and, of course, then we missed our connecting flight to Paris,
which was going to go take us to Hanover, Germany, where we are now.
Basically, we got here many, many hours later than we'd hoped.
But we're here now, and everything is fine.
Now, that brings us to the question of why you're there.
Well, we're here for CBIT,
C-E-B-I-T,
which is the world's largest telecom and IT conference.
And Laszlo and I come to this every year now
because it's quite the gathering of telecom and IT people.
Among others, our friends Rob and Barry the Key
will be demonstrating their cryptophone,
again, as they did last year,
to many curious people around the world.
And it's just an amazing gathering of people
from countries all over.
A lot of countries that you wouldn't see in the United States
showing IT and telecom technologies.
Countries like Iran and Jordan
and other countries that might not be welcome in the United States
are actually here to truly show some technologies they have.
A lot of nonprofit organizations, too,
like the Fraunhofer Institute,
who developed MP3 technology,
will be there showing off some really amazing technologies
that they've developed.
So it's a lot of fun and a lot of interest,
and we're going to be stomping around for three days
trying to cover as much as we can.
Now, I understand that this conference gets even more people
than show up for the HOPE conferences here in New York.
We get, what, about 2,000, 3,000 people showing up?
Well, we get 2,000 or 3,000 people at the HOPE conferences
and maybe a bit more at the European Hacker Conferences.
This has just a tad more people,
a little over half a million people attend this conference.
I think last year they had like 540,000 people attend.
I don't know if it will be bigger or larger this year.
No, that is bigger.
It's kind of big.
So it takes several days just to cover the acreage.
And I assume they're not all staying in your hotel.
No, we almost weren't staying in any hotel
because there was some mix-up
and the hotel lost their reservation.
So that was really bad.
It was really bad because there are no hotels.
As you can imagine, with 600,000 people
descending on Hanover, Germany,
there are no vacancies anywhere.
I sat next to a cement salesman
on one of these Air France flights.
You have been traveling, yes.
And he told me, the cement salesman told me
that when he was in college,
he used to rent out his flat for the weekend,
for three days for a few big attendees
and just cook them breakfast.
And he would make enough money that few days
to pay his rent for the whole month.
So it's very competitive to stay anywhere
in this section of Germany this time of year.
Well, how did you pull it off
if they lost your reservations?
You told them who you were?
We basically shamed them into it.
Laszlo was sharp enough to keep documentation
of who we spoke to and all that.
They basically had to kick out some Danish guys
that they gave our room to.
Well, you've made enemies for life with that move.
Fortunately, we didn't meet the Danish guys.
Stuff happens.
You will. I'm sure you will at some point.
So any problems getting over, though,
from security issues?
Were you flagged with S's or anything like that?
Actually, no. It was surprising.
We made it through.
There were no S's on our boarding passes.
There were some semi-related passport issues
when I tried to purchase a SIM card
from T-Mobile when I got here,
the phone that I purchased in Thailand
a few weeks ago.
A GSM phone I brought with me,
but I didn't want to have a Thai number
because it just complicates things.
So I bought a T-Mobile SIM card for it.
So I'd have a German number here
so I could be reached by you and other folks
even though I'm on a landline tonight.
But T-Mobile now has a new policy.
Apparently, they will not sell a SIM card
or minutes to you without showing your passport.
Really?
Yeah, and giving them your other information
like your address, date of birth,
which is on your passport,
and a bunch of other stuff.
And I asked the salesman at T-Mobile,
who seemed pretty up on this stuff,
he said, yeah, this policy's been in effect
actually for a couple of years now.
But I've never run into this before.
I certainly didn't have this problem in Thailand.
You can just purchase your SIM card and minutes,
but apparently it's a peculiar T-Mobile requirement,
not a government requirement in Germany.
So I didn't really have much of a choice
if I wanted to have mobile phone access.
So I just gave them my info,
but I was uncomfortable about that.
I'm just hoping I could just pay cash
and be anonymous in my communications.
But apparently that's not possible
with T-Mobile in Germany.
Interesting. Well, you do have other choices.
You didn't have to use T-Mobile.
Well, we didn't have any choices
because last night the only place
that was still open in this little town
called Cell, C-E-L-L-E, ironically.
That is ironic.
This town called Cell.
In the cell of a town,
that was the only carrier that was still open
that could tell a SIM card.
So I had to lump it.
Well, I guess life is full of compromises.
Yes, it is.
Let's cover a couple of other topics
that listeners have been very interested in,
things we've covered over the past couple of weeks,
including something involving Bernie
that we talked about last week.
Here's a letter from Chuck from Boston
who writes in,
I heard your show last week about Bernie S.'s encounter
with the New Jersey ticket maintenance people
and how they didn't want him to photograph
the inside of the machine.
That's right.
Bernie getting in trouble in yet another city.
I can see why they may be concerned.
That is a money-sensitive unit
and they may be afraid you will use the photos
to break into the machine.
Also, someone called and mentioned
that in Boston someone was drawing the fleet center
and had their drawing taken by the authorities.
I'm from Boston.
There's a scam going around with people posing as cops
by flashing fake badges
and holding what looks like a police radio in their hand,
but is actually a handheld CB radio.
They're demanding ID
and then stealing women's purses and wallets.
Here in New York, they shoot you.
Well, the real cops do that too,
but the fake ones apparently are following in their footsteps.
There have been several instances of this up here.
So no cop is going to take your drawings or cameras away
if you're approached by a person
who says he or she has an officer request.
A uniformed officer to be there too.
And then we have this letter
from someone who kind of counters that
by providing this example.
I just listened to the most recent Off the Hook episode.
One of the segments was about a ticket technician
threatening to take Bernie S.'s camera.
I witnessed a similar situation several months ago.
I saw a tourist taking pictures
inside the Chinatown Metro station in Washington, D.C.,
soon after a police officer appeared
and asked to see the photos
that were taken with the digital camera.
He then told the gentleman
to delete all the pictures taken within the station.
The police officer stated
that it was forbidden to take pictures inside the Metro.
The man complied while the officer looked over his shoulder.
Then the officer thanked the man and left.
Well, so it seems to me like the cops are doing this.
Or that might have been a fake cop in Washington, D.C. as well.
Well, he wouldn't have gained much out of it, so...
No, not really, except maybe a good laugh.
The question is forbidden by whom?
Apparently in many cases it's being forbidden
solely by the person saying that you can't do this.
But until you really push and investigate,
you'll find out it really is not forbidden by any law.
So sometimes you have to question people,
which is a little difficult
when the person's wearing a uniform and carrying a gun,
as in my case.
But, you know, this little general persuasion
finally digs up the truth,
and there will be a little chagrin when they find out
that, well, they don't really know what they're talking about.
Well, here in New York City,
there is a proposed rule to ban photography
in the subway system.
I don't believe, from what I've heard,
and I've been looking for any information on this,
I don't believe a decision has yet been reached,
even though one was supposed to have been reached
several weeks ago.
So as far as I'm aware,
you are still completely allowed to take pictures
in the subway system,
and people should test that.
I know we've been testing it.
In fact, somewhere in here,
I have a really, really good website
where you can take a look at that yourself.
In fact, if anybody else has websites to share with us
with pictures within the system,
within the subway system,
please let us know, and I'll find it.
It could be a secret law, too,
like the law that requires,
the so-called law that requires Americans
to show government photo identification
when they board an airplane,
even to travel domestically,
which John Gilmore is challenging.
And the government refuses to even say what the law is.
And I don't want to see that start happening
with people who want to take pictures of things
that are in the public domain
for there to be a secret law.
Well, I don't understand.
The Gilmore thing is incredible
because the government is saying this.
It would be so easy for them to simply advise airlines
to make it airline policy,
and then such cases wouldn't even be possible
to be brought against them
because airline policy says you must show ID,
just like, I believe, the port authority,
PATH trains, you're not allowed to take pictures.
Is that right, Redbird?
As far as I know, you're not.
That's the one place where I'm pretty sure
that it's illegal to take pictures.
And that's because it's PATH authority,
the port authority people,
it's their policy to do that.
There's no secret law or anything like that.
It's something that's...
That brings up a whole other issue
as to whether this is public property or private property.
Is PATH property actually...
Do they have the authority to say
you can't do that when you're a public citizen
on public property?
I was curious around the Amtrak station
at 30th Street, there's signs that say
this is a private facility.
As far as I know, Amtrak is a government corporation
which is primarily funded by federal taxpayer dollars.
So I don't think it's a private facility.
And I really question the validity of these signs.
It even says this is a private facility
and what we say goes.
So that's worth investigating too, I think.
I agree, I agree.
It is worth investigating.
Well, there's clearly some rulemaking authority
that the MTA has.
I mean, they're allowed to make rules
that say you can't jump over turnstiles and whatnot.
But I don't know how far that authority goes.
Well, that would be fair evasion.
So that would fall under actual laws
of theft of services sort of thing.
But if you're a public citizen
who's expressing their First Amendment rights
to gather and express information
or express their artistic or whatever talents
by taking pictures,
I think that's a legal issue in and of itself.
And I don't think a government agency
can say to a public citizen on public property
that you can't exercise your legal rights.
So it's really interesting.
And a lot of times this comes down to just because we say so.
And that's not good enough for me
just because somebody says so
without really showing whether something is legal or not.
Amen.
Justin from Connecticut writes in
with the URL I was looking for
for the photo blog of New York train subways.
It's www.travisrus.com.
I will spell that.
Well, the www is obvious.
.travisrus.com.
And it's basically a blog with photos
taken inside the New York City subway system.
And most of the photos are really kind of cool.
Good portraits of people,
obviously without permission
because some of them look like they're ready to kill
the person taking the picture of them
as they're getting off a subway train
or something like that.
But we need to see more sites like that.
It's really kind of cool.
Again, www.travisrus.com,
t-r-a-v-i-s-r-u-s-e.com,
photo blog of New York City subway trains.
Interesting.
We tried to get a good picture
at the airport in Paris this morning.
Well, yesterday, actually, our time.
But we thought better.
There were some attractive women at the Paris airport
walking around with machine guns,
some really imposing looking Heckler & Koch machine guns.
Hang on, hang on, hang on.
You just kind of sparked my interest here.
When you say they're walking around...
Attractive women with machine guns sparked your interest?
Well, I mean, you know,
apart from commercials for various types of,
well, whatever.
The thing is, were these people uniformed people
or just casual citizens walking around?
Well, no, these were actually uniformed...
Because I've been to Paris
and it's a very interesting place.
Very.
These were military officers.
Oh, okay.
Of, you know, men and women.
But we just, you know...
Attractive women caught our attention in general in Paris,
but these were attractive women in uniforms
carrying imposing looking machine guns
walking around.
And we just, it just, you know...
I don't know whether we thought
that was a welcome sight or not,
but we just thought it was interesting.
And people are going to be carrying machine guns
in the United States airports.
We'd kind of find it more interesting to look at
if they're attractive women.
But in any case,
it caught both Lazlo and my attention.
Well, I'm sure something else is going to catch you too.
Did you take pictures of them or...?
Well, I wanted to, but I really thought better.
I mean, it was the uniformed personnel
at 33th Street Station in Philadelphia last weekend.
Was it last weekend or the week before last?
Whatever.
These were guys that were just carrying sidearms.
So, I don't know.
There was something about great big machine guns
that seemed more imposing to me.
And plus, there could have been a language barrier thing
and I might not have been as persuasive
as I might have been with the United States
as I was last week or whenever that was.
So, I just thought the discretion
would be a little better policy this time.
Probably a good idea.
Okay, we have a bunch of other letters.
I just listened to your March 2nd show
where you read my letter
regarding the new entrance policy
into the Walt Disney World theme parks.
I heard one of you ask
if I had to use my fingers later in the park.
Aside from Emanuel's comments about using them again,
which I did, of course,
I never had to repeat the process
of inserting my two fingers into a machine
at any other time while I was at the park.
However, we did go to the Magic Kingdom the next day
and I had to repeat the process,
put in my ticket, stick my two fingers into the device.
But, of course, I didn't have to buy a new ticket
since you can use the same ticket for multiple days
at any of the Disney parks.
You just pay for the number of days you'll use a ticket.
Signed, Tom from Chicago.
Anytime we talk about Disney,
we always get a ton of mail
from people that experience these things
or actually work there.
Donna from Orlando writes in,
I heard your last show
about the Disney World fingerprint machines.
I work at the gate at Disney
and we have had this in place
since about the late 1990s or so.
The reason for it is so nobody tries
to sneak into another park without paying.
Or if they need to leave the park for some reason
and come back,
they can be ID'd as a paid guest.
We do not put any fingerprints in databases
nor do we match anyone's fingerprints
to any outside database.
I thought I wanted to let you guys know
since you seem concerned about privacy.
Well, I mean,
they must put it into a database temporarily
otherwise it would be useless.
Right.
Yeah.
It has to be stored locally
at least for the duration of your stay at the park
or, as he said there,
it would be pretty useless information.
What if you...
Sorry, go ahead.
What if you've had an untoward event
and your fingerprints have been burned off
or you're an amputee and you have an artificial hand
or you're a criminal mind
and just happen to have put something
over your fingerprints so it's unreadable?
What happens then?
I think it just reads your...
From what this reader or listener tells us
who works there...
It reads whatever is presented?
It's your finger geometry.
It's not your fingerprints actually.
It actually measures the size and shape
and spacing of your fingers,
whichever fingers they are.
I don't know.
Well, an unsigned listener writes in
and says it scans your index and middle fingers
and uses a geometric formula
to come up with a number
that will identify your fingers.
The calculated number is apparently something
that is not totally unique
but is statistically insignificant
in identifying you.
I was only able to play with them for a brief time
so here's what I got.
After you buy a ticket...
I bought a Park Hopper two-day pass.
You line up for these finger scanners.
You enter your ticket on one side
and then put your finger in the scanner.
The scanner has two pegs on a base.
I didn't see any...
Apparently...
Okay, I don't know what that means.
It measures the length
between your index and middle finger.
You put your hand in
and once the first peg reaches the groove
in between your middle and index finger,
you must squeeze your fingers together.
Once the computer gets a reading it can use,
it spits out your ticket on the other side.
Boy, if only the NYPD used a system
that was that quick.
It took us like a half hour
to get our fingerprints done
during that fiasco.
If there's a listener who can try this out,
I'd be really interested to see
what would happen if you just used,
you know, like a fake rubber hand or something
with just those two fingers
or maybe just two plastic tubes
that were shaped like fingers,
inserting them into the proper orifice
or whatever you're supposed to put them into
and seeing if that works.
You know, if it's repeatable
and whether it actually has to be
your actual fingers
or whether it can just be some finger simulators.
I'd like Donna from Orlando
to get back to us
and let us know if there's a metal plate
on this thing
and the pegs are plastic
because the Department of Corrections
uses something like that
to verify one's ID
when you're on probation.
Yeah, but I think that actually scans your fingerprint.
What she's saying is
it looks at your just hand geometry.
In any case,
I just think it's the whole concept
of inserting one's fingers
to enter the Magic Kingdom
just intrigues me.
Well, entering the Magic Kingdom at all
intrigues me,
but it's just so bizarre and crazy.
Continuing with this letter,
there's a magnetic stripe on the cards.
I can send one to you if you'd like.
Would you like that, Redbird?
Absolutely.
Which apparently puts that information
onto the card.
I tested it to see how good they were,
so I tried using my girlfriend's card
and she tried using mine.
I pushed the first peg with my finger
and squeezed it together
to make it seem like I had shorter fingers,
but it didn't work.
Funny thing is,
the people who were working there
at the turnstile,
retired old folks,
let me do this
and didn't care.
They just smiled, laughed,
and let us go
after we switched our cards and entered.
These tickets are used for speed passes
where you can go to a ride
and reserve a seat on the ride
at a later point in time
so you don't have to wait in line,
kind of like an easy pass.
It can show a lot about people's movements
through the park and whatnot as well.
In order to use those features,
you must do the finger scan, though.
Of course, you can use your picture ID
to get through,
but you won't get the speed pass features.
Interesting.
If security isn't that great there,
maybe somebody can take a picture
or get the make and model
of these scanners
and then we could actually find out
what it is really reading.
Way ahead of you.
The pictures are right here.
Someone sent us a website
that basically is entitled
Disney Security Cameras and Searches
with some high-resolution pictures here.
Security at Disney World starts...
Yeah, they are.
Starts from the moment you enter the property.
The picture above shows security cameras
mounted on the parking toll booth.
One camera is placed at eye level
so it can get clear pictures of your face
as you stop to pay the attendant.
The other is aimed at the rear of your car
and captures your license plate
as you drive away from the booth.
Disney security officers will search
every bag, fanny pack, and purse
prior to entering the park
and there's all kinds of pictures there.
And this is on www.anycities.com
slash user1 slash disneyworld
dash disney dash world
dash orlando dash
something that begins with S-E.
URL got cut off, I'm sorry.
But I'll pass those pictures around
for the benefit of the people inside.
One of the letters seems to state
that the information is actually stored
on your card on the mag stripe.
So, I mean, I guess they don't,
I didn't realize there was a magnetic strip
on the ticket or whatever it is.
So, I mean, theoretically
where it's something like the metro cards
where the value or the number
is stored on your card to identify you
as opposed to in a database somewhere.
I don't believe it.
I bet it's stored in a database.
I don't believe people take this so seriously.
Disney World, that is.
Well, I mean, if there was any doubt
that this is like the Atlas-Huxley vision
of the future was correct.
I mean, people just need to go to Disney.
Well, I mean, I guess it does have some effect
because the one time I've been to Disneyland
when I was eight, we did, you know,
have someone go into the park
or three of us went into the park
and then one person went out
and 10 minutes later they came back
with somebody else using the same tickets
that we'd used to get in.
It's because of that that they've implemented
these Orwellian things now.
So people can't get rid of that.
I'm just saying that the fact
that they match you to your ticket
actually would, I mean,
just from my own experience,
it was possible in the past to sneak in
using the same tickets from different people.
Yeah, you know, worse things can happen
than people sneaking in,
but apparently it's very important to Disney
that these massive security things be implemented.
It could be a matter of national security.
It could be. It could be.
Getting a free ride in Disney World
is only the first step.
There is a Disney national security nexus I've found.
There's a good book that just came out
entitled Chatter.
It's about eavesdropping in the post-9-11 world
by government agencies.
I recommend it.
It's kind of the genre of James Bamford's
The Puzzle Palace.
In any case, there was a chapter that described
the NSA's sort of decline in technology
a few years ago,
and they brought in experts
from different corporations on IT security
and code-breaking, that sort of thing,
and they brought in someone
from Walt Disney Corporation
and gave him, like, full security.
He didn't walk anywhere he wanted to in the NSA,
which I thought was stunning,
and that these old-school code-breakers
were just floored that their work
was being reviewed by a Walt Disney employee.
Yeah.
It sounds silly when you say it that way.
That's for sure.
Okay, moving on.
A lot of other topics to cover here.
The BTK killer.
We've all heard this story
about this serial killer
who was finally caught,
and apparently the only reason he was caught
after so many decades of being on the run
or just being out of the reach
of law enforcement
is because he communicated again
after being silent for so long,
and the authorities were able
to trace his communication
because of the computer he used.
Yes, this reader writes in,
What on earth does the BTK killer
have to do with computers or hacking?
Apparently, he left a digital signal somewhere.
I can only speculate
as to what gave the authorities their lead,
but here is one theory
that is being tossed around.
If he used Microsoft Word to type his letter,
then a username and company name
would be in the header of the doc file.
This might be what led the authorities
to the church computer that was used.
It would be interesting to see
what exactly was used
to trace the origin of the disk
that was sent by the BTK killer
assigned M to Mike.
It does make you think, you know,
if you're going to send
that anonymous thread
or communicate to somebody,
there's all kinds of information
stored based on the computer you're using,
based on the program you're using
with that computer.
All kinds of information can be sent
that you might not think is being sent.
There's some new info
on how this might have come about.
Apparently, the BTK,
the alleged BTK killer
allegedly used a reformatted diskette,
one that had previous information
written to it,
and that he allegedly reformatted it
and allegedly wrote the letter
to whoever this was on this disk
and gave it to,
I guess it was the media or the police
he gave the disk to,
but using various tools,
DOS tools,
you can, or utility tools,
or whatever,
you can unformat a disk
and read files
and read files
that were really,
not really deleted,
but when you format a disk,
it doesn't really erase
what was on there.
It just marks that information
as being erasable
next time you need to write
to that diskette.
So, apparently,
the BTK killer
didn't cover his tracks
too well this time
when he reformatted the diskette
and the forensics
might have tripped him up.
The amazing thing
about this whole case
is that the authorities
are saying,
yep, we caught him,
we did our job,
but the fact of the matter is,
for decades,
they hadn't caught him,
they weren't able to find him,
and really,
he kind of made it easy for them
by sending them this message.
I think what a lot of people
don't realize
is just how easy it is
to find somebody
when they send something like this,
whether it's over the internet,
whether it's a disk
that's sent in the mail.
Pretty much,
he advertised his presence,
although he probably
wasn't aware that he was doing that.
Now, according to an article
that appeared in ZDNet Australia,
anonymous internet access
is now a thing of the past.
A doctoral student
at the University of California
has conclusively fingerprinted
computer hardware remotely,
allowing it to be tracked
wherever it is on the internet.
In a paper on his research,
primary author and Ph.D. student
Tadayashi Kono said,
there are now a number
of powerful techniques
for remote operating system
fingerprinting
that is remotely determining
the operating systems
of devices on the internet.
We push this idea further
and introduce the notion
of remote physical device
fingerprinting
without the fingerprinted
device's known cooperation.
Is anybody surprised by this?
No, I don't think we are,
but maybe our listeners are.
Yes, anyone want to comment
on the implications?
It's kind of cool
because a lot of hardware,
with all the mass production of it,
is pretty generic,
and it uses something
to do with the clock of,
I don't remember the specifics,
but basically the fact
that all this generic hardware,
each piece has some little difference
with it that you can fingerprint it,
since everything is mass produced,
is fairly interesting, actually.
I mean, everything is being,
you know, you've just got factories
pumping out motherboard
after motherboard,
chip after chip,
and they're all pretty much identical,
but the fact that there's
slight differences
that you can use
to pinpoint a certain machine
is pretty interesting, actually.
He comments in his paper,
one could use techniques
to help track laptops
as they move,
perhaps as part
of a Carnivore-like project.
Carnivore was
internet surveillance software
built by the U.S.'s
Federal Bureau of Investigation.
Interesting,
interesting things
to look forward to,
where basically
you could be tracked
rather easily.
Along those lines,
there was a decent
non-technical article
in the Sunday New York Times
this past Sunday
about the increasing use
of false ID
by people who are finding
it easier to make fake ID,
driver's licenses,
that sort of thing,
with readily available
computer hardware and software,
and the police
seemed stymied by the fact
that people could actually
encode their own mag stripes
or encode their own
two-dimensional barcodes,
that sort of thing.
And it was really
a good article
about the cat-and-mouse game
between government entities
trying to make foolproof
government IDs
and others who were
trying to make IDs,
not so much for terrorist purposes,
but just so they can get a drink.
But it was a good article.
I recommend checking it out.
Well, the barcodes
are pretty easy
since they're standard.
I mean, there was a thing
a while ago.
This guy,
he's got this website,
Voltage Labs,
and the New York State IDs
have two barcodes on them.
One is a two-dimensional barcode
with all your information,
and then there's a barcode
at the top
that just has your birth date,
which is the one
that's generally scanned
by anybody that has
a barcode scanner.
And that's just a,
I believe it was a code 128C barcode,
which is just a standard
barcode type.
So if you found a way
to cut out your barcode
and replace it,
you had something
that said you were
a different birth year.
And it would be a felony
in New York State
to do so,
believe it or not.
Just saying that
the fact that people
can make their own barcodes,
they use standards generally.
Oh, yeah,
and you can just go online
and generate a code 128 barcode.
It's trivially simple to do.
I just find something
that's that trivially simple to do
that doesn't necessarily harm anyone
can actually be a felony
and put you in jail for years.
It's intriguing.
It's so easy to land yourself
in jail these days.
I've actually found
that most of the magnetic stripe
technologies that are being used,
a lot of companies
are using obscure formats
that aren't generally able
to be read by commercial products.
And that actually was part
of our MetroCard decoding project
is the MTA uses this obscure format
that you would never be able
to normally read
using a standard magnetic stripe technology.
So I guess that's a step forward,
but it's the same security
through obscurity method
that eventually it'll be broken.
By the way,
a reader writes in asking,
has Redbird released
the specs slash schematics
for his cheap portable card reader?
He's mentioned a few times on the show
on the December 29th episode.
It's like a court transcript here
of off the hook
at precisely how many minutes
past seven o'clock.
He mentioned that
he'd release them eventually.
If so, I'd love to see them.
Signed, Daniel.
Yes, I believe they'll be out
in the next issue.
I kept meaning to say it on the air,
but we always run out of time.
Okay.
Well, that's the official word,
the spring issue,
which is being worked upon now
by 2600,
which should be out sometime
before summer, hopefully.
We'll have that piece of information.
Also related to subway issues,
we talked last week
about the crazy maps that are out.
We went on a little expedition
after the show.
Last weekend,
we were able to find a bunch.
This reader writes in,
in response to your question,
where people can get the subway map
showing the venues
for the 2012 Olympics,
which are never going to happen
here in New York,
you'll be glad to know
that last Friday,
I found many maps available
at the token booths
at the Times Square
42nd Street Station.
Hopefully, this information
proves helpful to you
and your many listeners.
Signed, Nick from Woodside.
Nick, thank you very much.
In fact, that's exactly where we went
before reading your letter,
and we were able to find a few.
We actually had to sort of override
the initial negative response
that we got.
I think, Redbird,
you were able to figure out
that they were in a booth
even though they told you
that they weren't in that booth.
Right.
They seem to have only gotten
one or two boxes
at the not-so-popular token booths,
and they may be keeping
some of the more popular ones
stocked with them,
and I have no information
as far as if this is going to be
a regular release of one of the maps
because it does say, you know,
service changes as of February 2005,
which are, I guess,
are slightly important,
but other than that,
nobody seems to have any information.
Janine writes in asking,
will we be doing a panel
at the Trenton Computer Festival this year?
I enjoyed your panel
at last year's
Trenton Computer Festival,
and yes, Janine, we will be there.
In fact, we'll be performing
an edition of Off the Hook.
I don't think it's going to air
on the radio,
but it'll be sort of like
a private screening of Off the Hook.
We're just going to be there
hosting the show
except we'll be in front of an audience
instead of in front of microphones.
There are microphones in the room.
Well, yeah, okay,
not radio microphones.
Actually, I've had to bellow
a couple of times.
I thought there were microphones.
Sometimes there are.
It depends on how big the room is.
Would the edition of Off the Hook
leave the room?
I don't know.
If somebody tapes it,
if someone tapes it,
I suppose we wouldn't be able
to prevent that, would we?
That's an excellent idea.
Tape it and post it on the website,
but never air it on radio.
How about that?
That could be our fate, actually,
in the future.
Yeah, so whenever that is.
I don't have the exact date in my mind.
I know it's in April,
and the people who come on after us,
personal computer folks,
they certainly know the actual dates.
Also, was that Martel Cognac
in Freedom Downtime additional footage DVD?
I really enjoyed the pole sojourn.
Well, I can't comment on that
because that would violate
the rules of the contest.
What contest?
Well, you're asking the next question here.
Have you posted the Easter eggs
from Freedom Downtime yet?
No, we have not
because it's part of an ongoing contest
which is taking place.
In fact, you can read about it
in the current edition of 2600,
Winter 2004-2005,
and it'll be posted on the website fairly soon.
Basically, we have a whole bunch of Easter eggs
on the Freedom Downtime double DVD set,
and if you were able to find the most,
and anybody affiliated with the radio show,
anybody affiliated with the magazine
in any way as far as staff people,
not people who write in,
but people who work in the offices
or various other things,
they are, of course,
exempt from having to play in this contest
and don't help anybody or anything like that.
This is a contest to see
who can find the most Easter eggs,
Easter eggs being something
that may not be noticeable
to the casual observer.
It could be anything
from hitting a certain button in a particular way
to finding a particular thread of things
that are going on
that might not be so obvious
to people who aren't looking for it.
What will you win?
Well, you win all kinds of things.
There's only a first prize.
There's no second prize
because coming in first is what matters.
You'll win a lifetime subscription to the magazine,
all the back issues,
every piece of clothing that we sell,
off-the-hook DVD
with more possible Easter eggs on that,
another Freedom Downtime DVD
because you will have worn your other one out
by constantly looking for things,
and two tickets to the next Hope Conference in 2006.
So the address,
if you have a Freedom Downtime DVD set
and you'd like to play this contest,
find as many Easter eggs as you can,
mail it to Freedom Downtime,
Easter Egg Hunt,
Care of 2600,
PO Box 752,
Middle Island, New York,
11953.
And what's the deadline for this?
The deadline is September 1st, 2005.
So you have plenty of time,
but it's going to take plenty of time.
After September 1st,
will we then publicize the facts?
Yeah.
Well, of course.
There's nothing to lose then.
Well, that's all we can do.
Yeah.
Okay.
So what else?
Bernie, you wrote in with an interesting piece
about some guy on ABC's This Week
calling for the death penalty for hackers.
What's that all about?
Oh, the guy who replaced William Sapphire
in the New York Times columnist.
I forget his name.
John...
What does it say?
I wrote it in.
It's one in the morning.
Forgive me.
I forget his name.
Last name was Tierney.
Yes, John Tierney.
T-I-E-R-N-E-Y.
He...
There was a discussion about the New York...
Not New York,
the U.S. Supreme Court's recent decision
that executing people who committed crimes as minors
for that crime was unconstitutional.
Which I happen to agree with.
I think the death penalty is unconstitutional anyway.
But that's beside the point.
He was claiming that, well, that might make sense.
He personally feels that hackers and their viruses
should be executed.
And I wasn't sure whether you meant
the viruses themselves should be executed
along with the hackers.
But he seemed to have the opinion
that the only good hacker is a dead hacker.
And he didn't differentiate virus writers from hackers.
Hackers and their viruses should be executed.
Is that how he said it?
Because if you execute a virus,
that's how it spreads.
You know?
That was what was so funny about his statement.
He clearly did not know
what he was talking about on several fronts.
He wasn't joking then.
No.
Well, it was maybe half in jest,
but he seemed quite serious
about wanting to execute hackers and their viruses.
You never know what you're going to hear on Disney News
or a Disney TV show,
such as this week with George Stephanopoulos.
Yes, Jim.
I'm going to step into the big chasm here
and get myself into trouble sometime in the future.
But I'm going to say,
if anybody out there knows anything about John Tierney,
like where he lives,
his bank account numbers,
his social security numbers,
anything else,
send it to us.
No, no, no.
Send it to Jim,
because we don't care.
Why do you want this information?
Well, I figure right now,
despite his best efforts,
there's no death penalty for hackers,
so we might as well make his comments worth the effort.
Speak for yourself.
Anyway, if anybody has a tape of that,
I'd sure like to see it,
or even audio tape.
I'd like to know what exactly,
who's calling for death penalty for hackers
outside of China, that is.
This guy has also done things
like impersonated bank robbers
and gotten into cabs
with large amounts of money
and a hood over his head
Wait, why is he doing that?
This guy's kind of nutty.
Okay, I guess that's a prerequisite
for being on national TV.
Okay, we also got a lot of feedback
to last week's discussion on movie ratings,
and we've done some research since then.
I'd like to read a couple of letters
and then open the discussion up.
And we'll be taking phone calls right after this,
212-209-2900.
Off the hook,
many theater owners comply with ratings
because it is written into their lease
that they will only show MPAA-approved films,
that is, no unrated films
and no NC-17 films.
The NC-17 rating was invented
because leases exclude X-rated films.
It wasn't long before leases were updated
to exclude NC-17 movies.
That's why that rating
has also effectively disappeared.
Hollywood created the whole rating system
to avoid government regulations,
signed David.
I'm not sure.
I don't know how these leases tie into this.
Seems kind of sketchy to me.
Also, another listener writes in saying,
the MPAA system is a guideline for consumers.
Everyone plays along,
so the government doesn't get involved regulating.
The TV and video game rating systems are the same.
I don't know how much better it is
in government regulating
when you have all these films
being categorized by such a narrow group of people
and severe penalties
for not playing along
with the quote-unquote voluntary system.
Well, the people who benefit are not us
but the industry itself,
which is why they are such a fan
of creating their own systems
that they can control,
even though to the consumer,
the net effect is the same.
But I think the industry
doesn't like to have government
watching what it's doing.
But, I mean, what is the industry?
The industry is the mass appeal type things.
Independent filmmakers certainly doesn't benefit.
No, no, no.
By the industry, I mean the six big studios.
Are there still six?
It might be three this week.
I don't know.
It depends who bought who.
Now, Arsene, you've done some research on this.
Tell us what you've found out.
Well, I've done a bit of research.
I got the submission forms for a film.
I was just very surprised
that if you make a movie
with a $50 million budget or over,
you have to pay $15,000
to get your film rated.
But that's an absurd amount of money
to go to a rating board,
which it's the same
no matter what kind of movie you make.
So wait, you mean these guys,
not only do they get to see free movies,
but you have to pay them to see free movies.
Yeah, you have to deliver your film to them.
You have to do it on time, too,
or else they get really mad.
Okay.
You have to deliver it at 9 a.m.
and pick it up at 5.
It's like they just get to hold on to it for a day.
All right, so it's based on your budget.
So a film like Freedom Downtime,
which deliberately was not rated,
our budget was...
What's the lowest budget there?
We figured that Freedom Downtime
would cost $1,500 to rate.
$1,500.
So we have to pay them
to tell us what our film was rated.
Oh, that's precious.
What else have they told you?
Well, I'm going to do some more research
on how to actually join the committee.
I'm not 100% sure about the details I have,
but I got an e-mail address of someone
that should clear things up for me.
Well, now, from what I understand,
it's a handful of people,
literally a handful of people,
maybe two handfuls.
It's an average of 10 people from 8 to 13.
Okay, so some people might have.
But the thing is,
these people all live in Los Angeles, right?
Well, the area.
As the woman I spoke to said,
we do not fly people in.
Nor do they have people
watch movies in other cities.
What I'm trying to say is
the value system of people in Los Angeles,
and I'm not necessarily criticizing people
who live in Los Angeles,
although I could be at a later date.
The people in New York
have a profoundly different set of values
than people in Los Angeles,
yet what you're saying here is that
every movie that comes out
is rated based on the value system
of the people who live there.
And not only that,
all of these people are required to be parents?
They have to be parents.
They have to be parents.
So every single movie is rated by parents.
And I assume there are no gay parents in there.
Well, we don't know that for sure.
And maybe by next week,
we will understand what they mean by parent.
Yeah, I'd sure like to know more about that.
Of course, these people are completely anonymous.
We don't know who they really are.
It could be a computer program for all we know.
But I just find it amazing that
everything is so strictly defined
by such a small group of people,
and nobody questions this.
I would like to see an alternate rating system
come out by people who are not parents, you know?
People who have values from living in New York instead.
What would it take for that to be taken seriously?
I will rate your film for you for $1,000.
Well, that's just it.
If we charged half of what the MPAA charges, all right?
I'm going to undercut it entirely.
No matter what your budget is,
I'll rate it for $1,000.
Okay, all right, fine.
$1,000 per film.
You have to send me a DVD
because I don't have a fancy screening room.
Let's splurge.
Let's allow VHS as well.
I don't have a VHS.
We'll get one.
We'll all get together.
We'll rent out a little studio someplace,
and people can send us, you know,
it doesn't matter how big or how small you are.
People send us these movies,
pay us the fee, we watch the movie,
we give it a rating.
But what would our ratings be?
Our ratings would not be the same.
First of all, we can't use those ratings.
R is registered.
Not the R in the circle.
The letter R is registered.
PG-13 is registered.
But, you know, I think the film should be rated
based on something else entirely.
I don't think any film should be rated
because of language.
Everybody hears language.
Language is simply words, you know,
and I don't think that's a valid reason
for rating a movie.
Anybody have ideas on what movies should be rated for?
I say we color code them
with different shades of white.
Okay.
Well, that's a design issue.
But, I mean, you could rate something
based on how much violence it has, right?
Well, let's rate it based on
the threat to national security,
something we talk about.
We can base it on the green to red code.
No, you see, you're being silly.
I'm being serious.
I'm trying to come up with an alternate system.
I think this whole...
Physiology.
Physiology.
No, no, listen to me.
I don't think you're being serious either.
No, listen to me.
Listen to me.
A series of numbers from 0 to 100.
One number would be
how much does this film wake you up?
All right?
That could be violence.
That could be language, whatever.
Another could be
how much it provides blood flow
to the naughty bits.
Now, I'm definitely going to assume
you're not being serious here.
I'm going to hope you're not.
No, no, really, really.
Zero to 100.
If there's no sex in it,
that number would be zero.
But the physiology number would be 100
if it's violent.
You know, bombs, explosions, shooting.
Yeah.
Or a track of women carrying machine guns.
Well, that's...
Well, the thing is,
whenever you rate something,
you're imposing your own values on it.
Like, for instance,
I would like a rating that warns me
if there's, like,
family-based sappiness in a movie.
Okay?
Now, I'm not sure what I would call that.
What kind of maybe rated F or something.
Just because that's the kind of thing
I can't stand.
Just like, for instance,
when you have channel blockers
on your cable TV set,
you can never block the Christian channels.
You know, they don't let you do that.
You can only block, like, you know,
the R-rated things.
But the things that upset me
are the G-rated things.
You know, the stupidity,
the mindless drivel that's out there.
I'd like to block that.
I'd like to rate that in a particular way.
I don't know.
You could rate it C for evangelic...
I can't talk.
Christian values.
Yes.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Overly religious overtones.
That's another one that could be in there.
Religious rating.
So, as you can see,
as you can see,
the values,
at least from this particular room in New York City,
are profoundly different from the people
that are rating movies in Los Angeles.
I'd like to actually do this.
I really would.
And the thing is,
if it actually were taken seriously,
then people would have something else
to base movies on.
It would have maybe two ratings.
It would have the MPAA rating
and the off-the-hook rating.
I'll tell you what.
For a package deal,
for $1,200,
you can get all these ratings that we've proposed.
Well, no.
I think your original proposal was
that we're going to rate it.
We'll give you the one rating for $1,000,
but all the ratings for $1,200.
It's a good deal.
It's a good deal.
But I think you get all the ratings
because you're rating a movie
based on all this criteria
that we're coming up with.
I don't know.
We can sort out the details.
With them,
you get one letter.
With us,
you get a whole damn page.
Yeah.
Something that we can actually...
If you're a filmmaker
and are interested,
send us an email.
OTH at 2600.com.
All right.
212-209-2900.
Let's take some phone calls.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Yeah.
About the film rating...
Rebel, where have you been?
Hold on a second.
Nobody knows where you've been.
We figured Al-Qaeda got you or something.
What are their demands?
Are there any?
Let's see.
They just want us to take you.
I remember you...
Did anyone try to shoot the hostage?
No, seriously, Rebel.
We haven't heard from you in ages.
You haven't been to the meetings?
Is it something we said?
No.
Well, I just...
Is this Rebel or is this an imitation?
Well, I think you can tell when I'm imitating.
We can tell when Rebel is imitating,
but maybe you're not.
All right.
Let's assume for now you're him.
Okay.
What's on your mind?
I noticed that...
Let's see.
Using a pay...
Let's see.
What do I want to message?
I should have wrote down what I wanted to text.
Yeah.
That's Rebel.
That's Rebel, all right.
Let's see.
Using a pay phone is...
Using a phone is so annoying.
Listen to what happens
when you want to call the operator.
I'm dialing zero from my home phone.
Rebel has his own radio show going.
Dialing zero.
You're going to get James Earl Jones.
We all know this.
No, no.
You're going to get...
That's James Earl Jones.
Emergency police.
That's not James Earl Jones.
That's...
Isn't that annoying?
It's like somebody's trying to strangle him or something.
I'm like, hello.
People have been dialing nine by accident
and getting 911.
I mean, when you dial zero...
Wait.
You're saying if you dial zero,
then you can dial nine to get 911?
Right.
That's kind of strange.
That is strange.
It's easier to dial 911.
Right.
I know.
Didn't you hear it say
for problems with your bill,
call dial one
or do something else, dial two.
When you dial zero,
you used to get whatever it is,
the operator, local operator,
and now it's all this.
Speaking of Bell Atlantic
and other phone companies
and things like that,
do you know,
if you call a busy signal
and you get that little recording
saying you can dial star, what, 67
to have it call you back?
Not star 67, star 69.
No, what's the one?
Star 66, right?
66.
Yeah.
Basically, it says you can have Bell Atlantic
keep trying this number
and call you back.
The recording has not been updated.
It still says Bell Atlantic.
That's an old recording.
It is an old recording.
Anyway, nice to hear your voice again, Rebel,
and nice to hear the next voice, too.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hey, how you doing, guys?
What's up?
Winston Smith here.
Oh, nice to meet you.
Hi.
We spoke before.
Okay.
What's going on?
I'm 38 years old.
I finally got a computer
for the first time,
and I was surfing the Internet
for the first time.
It's a profoundly
masturbatory experience.
Yeah, and let me apologize for it
in advance.
Anyway, I'd like to rate
the most odious movie
I ever saw,
Bad Boys 2.
Okay.
It should have an O.
An O?
For odious?
It was disgusting.
Okay, we can use O
because the MPAA doesn't use O.
Yeah, O's a good one.
How can I get in touch with you guys?
I have some photographs
of subway trains
from the late 70s
to the late 90s
that I think Redbird
would be interested in.
I think Redbird
would be interested in.
Okay.
I have some photographs
of subway trains
from the late 70s
to the late 90s
that I think Redbird
would be interested in.
I have some other things
I think you'd be interested in,
Emmanuel,
but I don't want to discuss
them over the air.
Well, you can reach Redbird
personally,
redbird at 2600.com.
You can reach me,
Emmanuel.
Hang on, hang on.
2600.com.
I'm a novice at this.
Okay, and you?
Emmanuel at 2600.com,
and you can reach
the show OTH
at 2600.com.
OTH standing, of course,
for off the hook.
Okay, once I figure out
how to do that
on my computer,
Okay.
You can also,
if those are physical photographs,
mail them to us physically.
That's right.
Yeah, I don't think
I want to do that.
I think I'd rather scan them
and send them to you
because they're kind of
valuable to me.
Not a problem, then.
Okay.
God, I have so much
I'd like to discuss with you
over the past couple of weeks.
I haven't listened to you,
but...
Well, let's get your top issue
because...
Yeah, the federal institutions.
I had some experiences.
There's an embassy
in the United States
that has a lot of
photographs
of the United States
and there's an embassy
near the U.N.
in the 40s
between First Avenue
and Second Avenue.
I think it's the
United States mission
to the U.N.
and I was walking by
and on the side
there's a car entrance
and they have
like a little blockade
that can come up
from the ground.
Okay.
And I was looking at it
and in about 20 seconds
a GSA officer,
I know from the badge
that he's with
the General Services
Administration,
came out and yelled at me.
He was pretty abusive
and I was really
just looking at it.
Oh, because your eyes
could have been cameras.
Right.
Wow, so now we've got
to worry about staring
at things.
Right.
And this is a couple
of years ago.
Oh, okay.
There's an institution
on 12th Avenue
in the 20s.
It's a detention center.
It's a federal
detention center
and I was looking
at the door
and there were cameras
and I was reading
the placard to see
what the institution was
and a voice came over
and intercom telling me
to get the hell
out of here right away.
Bernie, is this the DEA
thing you found?
It's definitely
a detention facility.
When I was up there
last Sunday in New York
or Sunday before last,
I did run across
a DEA museum
which is apparently
still open.
It's supposed to have closed
but I saw through the windows
you could see
some of the big picture
windows.
You could see some
of the propaganda displays
of the DEA.
I remember there was
something in that neighborhood
on the west side
in the lower part
of Manhattan.
I understand
their headquarters
is on 57th Street
between 10th and 11th
or 9th and 10th.
No, this is not
their headquarters.
This is like a special
commercial exhibit
for people to learn
DEA propaganda,
basically.
Bernie, I thought
what you found
was something
that was kind of hidden.
Something like a warehouse.
Oh, yeah.
That's over in
the Chelsea district.
Yeah.
I'm talking about
on 12th Avenue
in the 20s.
This is definitely
a detention center
because it was
a heavily fortified building.
All right.
Well, I'll have to
check that out
or be sent there.
All right, guys.
I'm going to try
to get in touch with you.
Great show.
I love your show.
All right, thanks.
Bye-bye.
Let's see if we can
squeeze in a couple more
in the time we have left.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Hello.
Yes, what's up?
Hey, I had a very
interesting experience.
I was cleaning up
my garage,
and I came across
an old analog bag
telephone that I had
from Val Antony.
It was a battery
charger I had,
and I dialed a number.
It said I could make
a collect,
call a card,
or credit card
phone call using it.
And I was like,
wow, I didn't know
you could do that.
So I called Verizon
up and asked,
tried to get,
you know,
what was the rate?
And first they asked
me to have an account
with them.
I said, no.
Then they kept telling me,
no, you can't make
collect phone calls
from a cell phone.
I said, but I got
this message when I,
you know,
turned on my old
analog bag phone.
And they hung up on me
like three times.
So I called my friend up
and I call collect
and it's like 399 a minute.
Do you guys know
anything about that?
Yes.
I've heard of it.
Bernie, what do you know?
Yeah, it's up to
the discretion of the
mobile telephone
carrier in your area,
or carriers in your area.
But if you have an
old analog,
or AMP stands for
Advanced Mobile
Phone Standard,
phone like a
three watt bag phone,
which are really
good, good phones.
They're really powerful
and have great
audio fidelity.
The carrier can
allow you to make
calls even if you're
not registered on
the network as an
active user that
pays month to month.
And it's really good
to carry one of
these phones for
emergencies.
Because you can
still make 911
calls anywhere.
And they have to
be carried.
The FCC still
requires cellular
carriers to carry
analog AMPs calls.
So the main reason
a lot of people
carry a phone
around in their car
is for emergencies
only anyway.
But you don't have
to pay a monthly fee.
So the cellular
carriers don't want
you to know this.
But it's a great
911 accessibility
option to have
this phone with you
at all times in
your vehicle or
wherever.
But some carriers
will let you make
calls using a
calling card,
not like the
prepaid kind,
but the ones issued
by them.
Or you can make
collect calls.
It's really up to
the carrier.
But these old
analog bag phones
are still very useful
for that.
And you can find
them at flea markets
or HamFest for,
you know,
$5 or $10.
So they're worth
having.
So I want to wish
you and Laszlo the
best over there
in Germany.
Laszlo has just
woken up and we're
going to be heading
to Leipzig and
Dresden and Prague
over the weekend.
Okay.
And we'll be back
next...
Say goodnight,
Laszlo.
Yo!
Goodnight, Laszlo.
Nice talking to you.
Will you guys be
back in the States
next week?
Yes.
Next Thursday
we'll be returning.
Okay.
So next Wednesday
you might be
somewhere interesting.
We'll try to be
back in the States
next week.