From Ahmedabad in India, I'm Beno Alex for Free Speech Radio News.
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It's 7pm, time for Off The Hook.
For the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Off The Hook
Good evening. The program is Off The Hook.
We're here tonight in the WBAI studios.
This is Red Hacked. I'm joined by Jim, Mike, Redbird, and Walter.
Hey.
And on the phone we have Bernie S.
Greetings from Philadelphia.
Hello, Bernie S.
And Emmanuel tonight is in where, Mike?
He is somewhere around the world. He is continuing his tour of the world.
And we are continuing our tour of the world's hold music.
So I guess we should try now to reach him.
Now the way this works is we just have this toll free number that we call every week.
And we don't know where it will go this week.
What do you mean we don't know?
Well we don't know. It could go anywhere in the world.
Hopefully to a place where Emmanuel is.
And we don't seem to have this technology called the dial tone quite nailed down.
So are we supposed to guess based on the assorted electronic beeps and blips that we're going to get when we finally do dial him?
Are we supposed to guess where he is based on that?
I think that's the idea, yes.
So, play along at home.
What are we playing for, Johnny?
There we go.
Well, Johnny's not here.
Johnny is not here.
But if this was a normal show, we'd be playing for valuable prizes.
We put it down so you wouldn't hear the secret dialing code that enables us to get an outside line.
Other codes, too.
Your call is being connected. Please wait.
That's a good sign, always.
Ah, it's ringing.
That's an interesting ring.
Hello, could I have 742, please?
742, okay.
Yes, thank you.
You're welcome.
Name that tune.
Hello?
Hello.
How are you doing?
We're well. How are you?
I'm good, I'm good. It's 7 o'clock in the morning here.
Where is here?
I'm in Beijing right now.
And for some reason the entire country is on the same time.
So it's actually an hour earlier than it was last week, even though I'm further to the east.
So go figure.
I will figure.
What brings you to Beijing?
Where have you been since we last spoke?
The Trans-Mongolian Express brought me here from Ulaanbaatar.
And the difference couldn't be more stark as far as being in a country that most people would think is in the middle of nowhere
and then winding up in a place like Beijing, which is much more cosmopolitan than I ever thought, much more westernized.
And it's a fascinating place.
It's just so huge and big and stretches on forever.
And there's just all kinds of people here.
I mean, it's really a very busy place.
What are some of the things that you've seen thus far?
Well, let's see.
I don't know where to begin.
The Forbidden City, of course, is the main focal point.
You walk by and you're just struck by this amazingly huge portrait of Chairman Mao just there in the middle of this plaza across the street from Tiananmen Square.
And then you walk a few more blocks and you're in this crazy market where they're selling grasshoppers on a stick and all kinds of weird food items,
and people are running after you.
The thing is, everybody always says hello when they see you,
because they see Westerner and they figure, you know, speaks English and has money and will buy something.
And they're pretty aggressive.
If you walk into a store and look at something, you'll be crowded by people who are trying to sell you whatever it is they have there.
So you can't just do window shopping or browsing or anything like that.
You pretty much have to have a line of defense already to put into play.
Have you been forced into any unwanted purchases?
Yeah, yeah.
Well, you know, I'd rather not talk about that, because there's some things that I'm not exactly proud of.
But, you know, the flip side to that is that everything is very, very cheap.
You can have a whole lot of food for about $10, you know, I mean a lot.
You can buy something in a store and it'll just cost you like a couple of dollars for something that's, you know, probably cost about $20 back home.
Hmm.
How about the Internet? Do they have that in China?
Well, yes, they certainly do.
In fact, I was really surprised.
I'm staying in a hotel here, and they have the Internet on one floor.
I happened to wind up on that floor, and I saw the – actually, let me walk over to the other side of the room.
The phone won't extend, but I'll bring you the little Internet card that explains it, and I'll also get my computer, too.
Okay.
Please hang on.
We will do just that.
An Internet card? I don't really know what that means.
Probably just something.
We might want to ask what television viewing options he might have there in his hotel room.
Hello.
Ah.
Well, we have two questions that we formulated in your absence.
I brought the wrong thing.
Hold on.
I'll be right back.
Oh.
Maybe we can formulate more questions.
What I really want to know is what he's not proud of buying.
Okay.
Now I'm really back.
All right.
We have three questions now formulated in your absence.
Okay.
I won't leave again.
One is what is an Internet card?
Well, no, it's not – okay.
Not the Internet card like I had in Mongolia.
That was a bit of a scam, actually.
I had to get an Internet card to use the Internet to dial up,
and I got connected at a whopping 28.8,
but then the place I was staying at also charged me per minute,
so I wound up paying a pretty hefty price.
You know, not that expensive compared to what I would pay somewhere else,
but still, you know, more than I thought.
In this particular case, what I meant by a card was something that they have,
a little piece of paper standing up on the table when you walk into the room,
and it reads as follows.
Internet service.
Welcome to the broadband network service of this particular hotel.
Click the Internet browser.
The login dialog box will appear.
Input your username and password, same as your room number.
Then you can enter to the Internet.
Please click the cover-up dialog box at the low end of the screen for exit.
The mineral charge is 20 RMB.
That's about $2.
Every minute exceeding 30 minutes will be charged for 0.5 RMB per minute additionally,
so do the math on that.
Please don't browse or download any content from those websites
violating relevant regulations of PRC, People's Republic of China.
Now, what happens if you put in someone else's room number?
You know, I'm trying not to get in trouble here.
Well, I can tell you what I think happens
because I put my room number in before I went downstairs and gave them 201.
It just basically says that username doesn't exist.
I do know that if you plug another computer in, because we tried this,
when I plugged another computer into my connection, it said the MAC address doesn't match.
Okay, so you registered the MAC address?
Well, it was registered for me, I guess, as soon as I plugged it in.
When you log in, yeah, probably.
Since it's on the local network, you can see it.
Now, have you noticed that any sites are blocked or any subnets are blocked?
The only site I've found so far that's blocked is BBC,
and that's blocked pretty consistently.
I've gotten around it.
I won't get into that so much, but the point is when they block something,
what happens is it just doesn't resolve.
It just sort of hangs there, and it says there's no response,
when obviously there is a response, but nothing else that I've been able to find anyway.
Of course, I haven't been going on a real hunt for the most offensive sites possible,
but things like the New York Times, things like certainly 2600,
things like any other news site I could think of, they seem to go through just fine.
Now, when you say it didn't resolve, the domain didn't resolve?
If you plugged in the IP address, would the site be accessible?
I plugged in the IP address, and it just sat there.
So it just sat there.
I think what happened, if I recall correctly,
when I put in the actual BBC site, it said something like connecting to, transferring data from,
and then it just sort of hung there, and nothing happened,
and then eventually said there's been no response.
Are you violating applicable laws of the PRC?
Well, I mean, you can't find out something's blocked if you don't try to get there.
So now that I know that it's blocked, well, I won't try to get there.
Well, you should just not try.
I mean, it's pretty clear what you have to do.
Well, I'm not trying. I'm not trying at all.
At this very moment, I'm not trying.
How is the throughput to the rest of the world?
What speed do you get, say, uploading off the wall or something like that?
Well, you know, I didn't know this was going to be the most fascinating part of being in China,
but it's actually quite fast.
It's actually very fast.
It's the best connection I've had since I left New York.
How about that?
It was 140K a second yesterday uploading something.
The what-the-heck organizers are going to be upset.
Well, I mean, you know, that was a camp field in the middle of Holland with all sorts of competition.
This is a hotel.
And let me talk about TV a little bit, though.
That's kind of interesting.
There are absolutely no Western channels, which is a bit of a relief for me.
But the only things that are available on this particular TV set,
which I suspect is not cable, I think it's getting everything from over the air,
are basically state television, CCTV, and that's one through, I think, 12.
There's 12 state channels.
And there are a couple of other ones, too, that are also CCTV,
but the character after the bug is in Chinese.
I don't know what exactly that means.
And then there are a couple of other Beijing-type channels and regional broadcasters,
I assume all of which are state-approved.
So that's pretty much it, not a whole lot of variety.
There's one channel, CCTV-9, which you can actually get in New York on Time Warner Cable.
And that's pretty much, in English, it's a news channel,
but it's really more a propaganda channel as far as what kinds of things are aired.
And you won't find very much in the way of world news.
So, you know, I'm kind of out of it as far as that goes.
Of course, I can always look on the Internet and find out what's going on from an American perspective.
But, you know, flipping through the TV stations, you just see a lot of the same kind of programs,
you know, a lot of singing and a lot of weird little game shows and documentaries,
really dry stuff there.
But, you know, when you're in a foreign country,
I guess you should experience things the way the natives experience it,
and that's what TV is like for them.
Have you ever been able to experiment with any radio there, shortwave or AM-FM?
You know, I'm glad you reminded me of that because I do have your iRiver,
and your iRiver is able to pick up FM, so I'm going to try that.
I haven't had a chance to do that yet.
As for AM, no, I don't have a means of doing that, but I can certainly ask around.
It'd be interesting to...
As far as...
Oh, go ahead.
Oh, I'm sorry.
As far as TV goes, it's illegal under Chinese regulations
for the average Chinese person to receive and watch BBC, World Service, CNN, and HBO,
and a bunch of other Western channels.
Apparently that's widely violated by people with satellite dishes,
and apparently there's a regulation that broadcasts that are sent
to cable television companies in China, or to their head ends,
which are then distributed to the public.
All that programming must be routed through a state-run company
called the China International Television Corporation,
so apparently the Great Firewall extends beyond the Internet to television programming.
But, you know, I kind of wonder how different is that from in the United States,
where we literally have no international news coverage coming into the States.
Yeah, we're allowed to, but nobody brings it in.
No company that runs the systems that we're forced to buy
will bring in something from another country.
So the effect is the same.
The people remain isolated.
It is, with the exception of people who are permitted to set up
free-to-air satellite receivers and watch...
A couple of years ago I was watching live Iraqi television
from a Holiday Inn near Philadelphia,
but I don't think I would have been allowed to do that in China.
So it's a legal thing, but you're right.
There's a commercial firewall that we have to suffer through here in the U.S.
Well, that's a good point.
I'd like to be able to tell people exactly how they can set up free-to-air satellite,
because there are quite a few interesting things there.
It's not as user-friendly as, say, getting DirecTV or Dish Network
or something like that.
But if you have free-to-air, yeah,
you can tie into all kinds of weird things throughout the globe.
Is there a simple way for people to get started on this?
If you just plug in free-to-air satellite television
or some portion of those words into a web search engine,
I'm sure you'll find tons of information about it.
You can literally set up a free-to-air Earth station on your own house
for about $300.
Keep in mind, though, it'll be a big dish.
No, no, this is like a less-than-1-meter dish.
Less than 1 meter you can get free-to-air.
I was always under the impression it had to be at least 3 feet or 3 meters or something.
I was watching Iraqi television with a 1-meter dish.
Okay, well, could you watch anything else besides Iraqi television?
Oh, yeah.
Other than that, I was watching camel races out of Dubai.
And let's see, there are a bunch of other countries.
This was a while ago. A friend of mine set it up.
But you don't need a large dish.
Okay, well, can you get BBC World on that system?
That's a good question. I don't know.
But I can answer that question next week.
What about a more traditional means, such as getting BBC via shortwave?
Yeah, well, that's not television.
BBC World, which is a television news service,
but BBC shortwave is probably no longer jammed in China, as it once was,
and also in Eastern Europe.
But, yeah, there's not a lot of shortwave jamming going on anymore.
But then again, there's less shortwave broadcasting going on than they used to as well, unfortunately.
What's interesting is that if you go into a bookstore here,
and I went to this amazing bookstore, it just went on and on, I think eight floors,
you'll find all kinds of English language instruction,
like tapes and CDs and computer programs.
And it seems like the emphasis on learning English is very, very high here.
And ironically, a lot of the programs come from sources such as BBC, Voice of America.
In fact, I got a CD of some special English newscasts.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
You're an American, and you have a Voice of America material?
I do now, yeah.
You can't listen to that?
Well, I don't really intend to listen. I just intend to play it.
But it basically is in special English, which is that slow kind of English.
But the amazing thing about this is that one of the features is Bush explaining the Iraqi elections.
People want to hear that in special English where they go extra slow.
Using Bush speeches as a way to teach English, I think, is just the most inane thing ever devised.
But we'll see how that translates.
Tell us if they make any corrections to the actual language.
I'm simply amazed, though, at the friendliness of people here.
I didn't expect it to be so open.
It is Beijing, after all.
I thought it would be a lot more, I don't know, kind of oppressive, kind of a lot of rules.
More like Russia, you know, where everything is like somebody yelling at you and taking your passport
and monitoring everything you do and writing things down and waiting on interminable lines.
It's not like that at all here.
It's very laid back and easygoing.
Of course, this is Beijing, and I haven't been to the rest of the country yet.
And really the only other part of the country I'll be in is Shanghai.
So it's not really a fair test, but it is fascinating to know that I am in the biggest communist country in the world,
and yet I'm in the middle of one of the biggest capitalist-like cities in the world.
Right. Well, I mean, it could be like a show town, and the rest of China might be nothing like it.
Well, it's one hell of a show, I'll tell you that.
All right. Do you have anything more, or shall we move to the news?
Well, let's move to the news because I'm sure there are interesting things here and there.
There's interesting things everywhere.
One bit of news, this is from the New York Times, is that cell phoners are upbeat on calling from below.
There's an article here by Jennifer A. Lee, who we've discussed her work before.
Still using the 8, huh?
You know, it's her name.
And apparently New York City is going to get, in some subway stations, you're now going to be able to make calls on your telephone.
So the New York Times wrote an article about this.
They also wrote another article, only slightly longer, about why they're doing this,
and this is that it will allegedly enhance security.
Lockheed Martin is getting a three-year contract of $212 million,
where they're going to install all these cameras and all this stuff all over the subway system,
and I guess we'll be more secure as a result.
And who's installing the cell phone equipment?
It's undecided. It's undecided.
Is this their expanding it?
Because I do know in some stations you do get cell phone coverage,
or is that just a coincidence that you might be near a receiver, a transmitter?
That's just coincidence.
Well, one place where it's not coincidence is Penn Station.
If you go all the way down to the bottom, you'll get perfect cell coverage there.
In fact, I even used my cell phone on a train that went from Penn Station to Woodside through the tunnel.
So it's not hard for them to do this, as it's done in many other cities as well.
I know in Berlin they do this.
A couple of other cities I've been in, I think Moscow even,
there are parts of Moscow where you can talk on the cell phone.
The trouble is with Moscow, the trains are kind of loud.
New York City, I can't see that.
If they make the phones work on the trains, I don't think anyone will be able to hear anybody
because of how loud they are.
So I think that's the reason, number one.
As far as why they're doing this,
they say they're abandoning their early reservations about cell phone coverage,
and they agree that the benefits of allowing 911 and other calls during emergencies
outweigh the potential costs and risks.
I'm not sure what kind of risk they're talking about here.
The risk of a phone-detonated bomb.
Right, they'll have to install those devices we talked about one or two weeks ago
to intercept cell phones to make sure they don't explode.
Well, here's the thing.
The bids have to be in by October 12th.
The winning bid will get a 10-year license,
they have to pay for the installation of the wireless network,
and this is the funny part, they'd be required to disable all calls at the authority's request.
So they have this little provision in there saying,
okay, turn everybody off because somebody's being bad or something,
or we suspect someone's going to use a cell phone to detonate a bomb.
They just found out that the people in London detonated the bombs by hand.
So what are they going to do?
The answer is clear.
They have to forbid hands from the subway.
And the ones in Spain, in Barcelona, were detonated by cell phone,
but with cell phones used as timers, not as you call the phone and then it blows up kind of thing.
So shutting down the phone system is really pointless and stupid.
Again, the answer is clear.
We have to ban time from the train system.
But the cell phones are only one small part of this thing.
What they announced this week with Lockheed Martin,
I think the really interesting bits are the surveillance cameras.
Do you have anything on those?
Well, yeah, we were discussing these cameras can go for 300 feet,
which is pretty far for a camera.
They're going to be able to zoom and pivot and rotate,
all the while transmitting and recording images of vulnerable areas, so they say,
which include dark tunnels under the East River and bustling subway platforms in Midtown.
And there's supposed to be 1,000 of these cameras, isn't there?
Yeah, 1,000 video cameras.
And they cost $1,200 each, do the math.
That is only a million dollars.
I don't know where the other $211 million are going.
Installation and fees.
And a little graph too, why not?
But, again, this is only going to help after the fact.
If something happens, they'll have footage.
Oh, no, no, no.
They'll have possible footage.
No.
Okay, explain to me how this could actually prevent something from happening.
Well, according to the demonstration that Lockheed Martin gave,
which was, of course, computer graphics enhanced rather than a real system.
That probably cost a million dollars right there.
These video cameras would be linked to a computer,
which would essentially pick up objects, people, packages, whatever,
and follow them along.
And if they suddenly stopped moving,
it would alert after a few seconds of non-movement.
Or if a package and person were moving together,
and part of this object veered off,
in other words, the person left the package behind,
it would, after a few seconds, alert the people
who would supposedly be watching this or able to watch this
that on a certain platform under the view of camera,
whatever number it is, there was now a suspicious item.
And you could bring up the tape.
You could bring up the live feed.
You could see what was going on.
And if it were a crowded Times Square platform where nothing was moving?
Or where nothing was visible,
where somebody was carrying their briefcase at knee level
and casually left it right next to a bench?
No, you'd be doomed then, of course.
Okay, but regardless, the problem these days has been suicide bombers,
and there's no way these cameras could prevent someone from detonating a bomb.
Exactly.
It would look just like a person because, gee,
that's what the suicide bomber looks like,
a bulky, perhaps, person who suddenly goes kaboom.
But you would be able to see who that person was,
like they did in London,
where they were able to get us pictures of these people
as they were traveling together on their way to detonate their respective bombs.
I'm a little hard-pressed to find what's obviously wrong with this.
I mean, is this an invasion of our privacy?
Is this a big waste of money?
What is the main objection to a system like this?
Okay, this is still all being done under false pretenses.
It's saying that it's going to make the subway system more secure,
which is not accurate.
If it's not preventing these attacks, then it's not making it more secure.
It may aid in the investigation afterwards,
but that still doesn't make the subway more secure.
Exactly.
Well, if you can't make the subway more secure,
is making the investigation more productive,
is that a bad thing, using these kinds of cameras?
Who are you going to prosecute if they all went kaboom?
Well, it's not...
We shouldn't know who they were?
Well, it's not necessarily a bad thing, but still,
it's still being done under false pretenses.
It's an entirely different question that's not being investigated.
Well, then let's correct their pretenses.
Once we do that, what I'm asking is,
since most people support this, they really do.
In fact, most people who are polled support
London's shoot-to-kill policy in the subway system,
which I think is insane.
Most people are not the ones being shot.
Well, yeah, I imagine the question would be a little different,
or the answer would be a little different,
if asked if shooting you was acceptable.
But since most people probably will come out in favor of having this
under the guise that it will, you know,
not make you more secure before you get on the subway,
but at least know what's going on
and know what happened if something does occur,
how do you argue against something like this?
Well, I would like to turn everyone's attention,
not at the moment, but for background on this,
to Bruce Schneier and his Cryptome newsletter.
The name is S-C-H-N-E-I-E-R.
And he goes into, on the August 15th issue,
great detail on the advantages and disadvantages of profiling
and what really constitutes increasing your security.
And he points out many of the same things that we're pointing out,
that is, this stuff is entirely false, it makes you feel better,
and once you think about it, you realize how inadequate it is
to improve your future chances.
It's great if you want justice or revenge after the fact,
but it does nothing for improving your security.
Did you say his name, his newsletter was Cryptome?
Because that's not him.
Oh, okay, then I'm wrong.
Cryptogram.
Cryptogram, I'm sorry.
Okay.
But definitely is Bruce Schneier.
Interesting, too, also on this subject,
have there been any more people that we know searched on the trains?
I saw police officers for the first time.
I haven't been searched yet.
You don't look suspicious.
The rest of us do, though.
But I did receive this, this press release
from the Screen Actors Guild of all people.
Listen to this.
Screen Actors Guild advises members to no longer purchase
or carry police costumes in New York
when the city appears to revise existing policies.
One hell of a headline there.
But basically what they're saying is that they're advising their members
to no longer travel with such props as police outfits
or fake guns or anything like that.
Word has it that a couple people were arrested on their way to a law and order shoot
while taking the subway and then being searched.
I guess it's not that surprising if you have something like that on you
that they would take a keen interest.
But it goes to show that, yeah, they're not just looking for bombs.
When they go through your bags,
if they find anything that's a little bit questionable,
they will have more questions for you,
and sometimes those questions will be best answered downtown.
So you've got to really think about this.
You do have the option of walking away, and Mike walked away a few weeks ago.
Mike even was able to say a comment or two as he walked away a few weeks.
Mike, were you worried at all when you did that?
No.
I mean, really.
I mean, you know, whatever.
You can't be afraid of these people, or they've already won.
Well, yeah, but still, if you mouth off to a cop,
they may want to continue the conversation.
That's the only thing I'm a little worried about.
But you do have the right to just walk away.
So, you know, it's always a risk, but whatever.
We advise our listeners, if you run into something like this,
just walk away and go to another station or get on a bus.
That's good advice, but you might have more fun doing other things.
And it's worthwhile to note, I noticed an article Jim has in front of him now,
that while they're doing all this to supposedly help the security,
they're also doing other things which certainly would hurt people
in the event of an emergency situation,
such as locking the doors at the ends of the cars.
Yeah, the Daily News had an article a few days ago in which they mentioned
that a number of people on the British subways had escaped almost certain death
by noticing the bombers starting to sputter.
I don't mean being unable to say things.
I mean their backpacks starting to sputter,
and ran to the ends of the cars and into the next car.
In most R46-type subway cars on the New York City subways,
these are the 75-foot-long trains that go ding-dong
when the doors are opening or closing,
the ends of the cars are locked.
This does guard against people falling to the tracks
while attempting to cross between cars,
but in a situation in which somebody is a suicide bomber,
it would essentially increase the casualties inside the car.
Their only defense against this seems to be that people could possibly
fall off the train or hurt themselves,
or kids would be surfing on top of the trains
because they were able to gain access to the top via these open doors.
I may have mentioned that I'm a big supporter of Darwinism,
but if you're going to climb on top of a subway train,
I really don't see any reason why you don't deserve to fall off.
What keeps you from climbing on top of buses? I mean, come on.
It's just completely ridiculous reasons why they do these things,
and it's completely counter to all this money spending
that they're doing for unproductive methods
of supposedly increasing the security.
Well, look, no one profits if you unlock doors,
so that's really not a necessary security enhancement.
What do you mean?
No one profits, so there's no real reason to do it.
You're right. Lockheed Martin is making a dime if you open up a door.
They don't make keys, I mean, really.
Along the subject of these security-related rules,
the UK has announced they're going to publish
a list of unacceptable behaviors.
Have you read about this?
Well, I wanted to read about this, but I couldn't get to the BBC to read it,
so why don't you tell us about it?
Well, they haven't actually published the detailed list yet,
but they've sort of summarized the types of things
that are going to be on the list of unacceptable behaviors.
And if anyone is found to have committed any of these unacceptable behaviors
and they're not a UK citizen,
they can get themselves booted right out of the country.
Some of them include fomenting terrorism
or seeking to provoke others to terrorist acts,
justifying or glorifying terrorism,
fomenting other serious criminal activity
or seek to provoke others to serious criminal acts,
foster hatred, which may lead to intra-community violence in the UK,
advocating, here's one of my favorites,
advocating violence in furtherance of particular beliefs.
Now, what other countries have been guilty
of advocating violence in furtherance of particular beliefs?
I, for one, am pleased to learn that the US and UK militaries
will be expelled from the UK.
I think it's a positive step forward for the country.
Well, the UK militaries wouldn't be because they're citizens.
Oh.
What I find fascinating is that if someone was a movie producer
and wanted to make an obscure movie on the early life of Benachem Begin,
the late Israeli prime minister,
if they focus on his history in the Irgun
and the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in the 1940s,
which killed like 100 people,
this thing should get that entire movie crew expelled from the UK.
George W. Bush would have to be kicked out of the country if he was in that country.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter to some extent.
I mean, there are some people who are beyond the pale.
But still, this is a wide-ranging series of unacceptable behaviors,
which I think are a bit unenforceable.
I hear that there was one radical sheik
who happened to say, and this was his only crime,
was that he said while out of the country
that the British government is partially to blame
for the events of July 7th.
I would say the same thing.
I guess I would get me kicked out of the country, too.
But apparently saying that is enough to have you categorized
under those new rules and regulations.
It's not enough because you're not Muslim and you speak English,
so you probably won't be having this policy applied to you.
Like so many of these policies,
it's almost certainly going to be applied only against certain types of people.
That's the beauty of it. It can be used selectively.
For instance, what about one of our favorite televangelists
here in this country who just advocated
the murder of a foreign leader?
If he were in the UK,
he could have been kicked out of the country for saying that.
If he wasn't already a UK citizen.
Well, he isn't. He's a US citizen.
What's his name again? Robinson.
Yes, yes. If you're visiting the UK and he made that statement there,
the UK government could legally just kick him out of the country
even though he was there on a valid visa.
Which, frankly, I think he should be kicked out of our country, but that's another story.
Well, as a US citizen, I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
I don't know.
It's been picked up by the news media, and they just ran with it.
He doesn't represent, well,
he represents part of the United States but he doesn't represent
any actual policy of the United States.
Well, speaking of things that haven't been picked up by the news media,
have you guys heard about this thing that happened in Utah?
The Raive raid, as I call it?
Yes. It's been picked up.
There's been quite a bit of video footage online posted of that.
mind posted on the internet on the internet have you seen anything on uh...
on the media the mass media
i haven't
yes apparently what happened is there is uh... this rate that was going on in
utah
uh... it was legal have permits everything like that
uh... and his video of this uh... i'll give you the u r on the moment of the
basically
these these uh...
how to describe it i guess just goons
showed up in camouflage outfit
coming out of helicopters rush a helicopter swoop down and i was
trying like some people
uh... they forced the uh... the the rave goers to uh... to to shut down uh...
there there event
they started jumping on people resting them kicking them
all kinds of things uh... tear gas was used their weapons all over the place
uh... assault against unarmed people
and just a really really scary atmosphere all the sudden you you're at
a rave in hopes of these people in camouflage outfits
just to send out of nowhere starts creating a family that you it's like
you're in iraq all the sudden
nobody really knows what it was that that happened i've got kind of
investigations that are that are being started but
this is something that should be in the mass media uh... that should be the top
story uh... i can't stand why it's not
uh... you're out for you to see some of the uh...
from what happened and uh... i don't know if there's a better one out there
but the one i have is
homepage dot mac dot com
slash apex grin at a p e x g r i n
slash file-sharing to dot html actually file-sharing has a capital f in the
capital s
so uh...
check that out this video there though
show you what happened and uh... if it's more than a story
like a year ago you are all that might be easier for our listeners to uh... type
in and it's just
k u t v dot com
uh... it's a local tv station there in salt lake city channel to cbs affiliate
if you could take a tv dot com
uh... you can see a bunch of pictures on their web page and uh... download
videos of uh... what happened
what's on the tv is is is a member of the mass media than what kind of
coverage of they've been giving it
well i'm looking at the pictures on the website and they look pretty uh...
pretty scary frankly there's guys running around and uh... in
what jackets with machine guns and people showing bruises on the bodies
looks ugly
what's amazing about this is that the event was completely legal but it had
permits
they were allowed to be there
under under what uh... what pretext did they move in under such
crazy scenarios
and and shut it down in this manner that's that's what i want to know uh...
i saw two things one i think they didn't have some sort of permit but also
uh... they had undercover police uh... infiltrating in watching people selling
drugs and taking drugs and
i think at that point is when they they had the
teams come in i guess they were ready for it but
i think they actually look to see some something illegal going on before they
raided it
but at any any sort of uh... party like this i mean those things are going to be
going on regardless
but i mean if you watch these videos it's just completely outrageous you see
these these guys just like picking people out of the crowd and beating them
to the ground and it's just
it's it's it's completely like absurd and scary
i'm sorry but i mean you go to the metropolitan opera they're gonna be
watching people selling drugs in the bathrooms or something
it happens every place it happens all the time
you honestly think
if they were standing around
and they didn't see somebody selling something to somebody else
that they all would have gone home in their camouflage outfits and a
helicopter thing well guys
there they were not anything so let's just uh... you know i bought the
operation of course not they wanted to do this they're ready to do this
they would have done it no matter what somebody drop a candy wrapper on the
ground
they would have moved in maybe it happened all the time that there's
so they blend right in to the night
uh... but but you were talking earlier about how this is kind of a failure of
the of the uh... corporate mass media to uh...
fail to report the story but what's also interesting it can also be viewed as a
success
of uh... independent media and of of the internet to kind of distribute this
video
in a way uh... so that we're talking about and others across the country can
talk about it
uh... this uh... this ability to
distribute
uh... video of things like this is something that's not really new anymore
but it's still uh...
uh... undeveloped
uh... it's the same thing that happened at rnc almost a year ago
where people shot video and proved that the police were lying and were able to
uh... you know
counter their arguments in court
it basically
comes down to being the media yourself as jello says
you know walking around with cameras capturing as much as you possibly can
and using it not being afraid to actually show people know this is not
what happened
look at this this is really what happened
you have to walk around those cameras you have to capture these things
yeah they have to build cameras every place they're watching you
watch them right back
unfortunately i think this it's not as effective as getting in the mass media
because i think
uh... this independent sort of uh... reporting has a completely different
uh... target audience
and uh... and people who follow that sort of thing but i think if uh... you
know it's it's still we should really still push to get this stuff in the mass
media because
a lot more people will see it then and a completely different
uh... type of people will see it
alright i want to move on to this story from uh... canada where uh... there's a
bill in the parliament
which would allow police to monitor email without getting
uh... the permission of a judge
and this is
being developed kind of quietly the canadian police are very worried that
they're falling behind in the technological uh... world
so rather than extending existing laws which would allow them to get a you
know a warrant and read email when people are actually committing crimes
they've got this new law that uh...
would allow them to just uh...
call up the ISP and say hey we want access to this person's email and get it
without a judge at all
and what really uh... is kind of
surprising me about this story you know i can't even be surprised by stories
like this anymore but what's surprising to me
is that the uh... the NDP which is kind of a very progressive party in canada
is among is like all the other parties behind this uh... because they're
concerned about child pornography
and uh...
they say the uh...
the NDP justice critic says
our police forces always seem to be lagging behind
so it's really
everyone uh...
wants to intercept email without permission it's very scary well actually
in the united states uh... kind of a different angle
uh... there's a u.s. federal appeals court and they ruled that uh...
intercepting email in temporary storage violates federal wiretap laws
uh... and the
it overturned another ruling and basically the idea was that the federal
government wanted to say well
when email is still in transit from the sender to the receiver
uh... it sits on servers at times and so it's data in storage so they can just
go look at it
uh... but the federal judges ruled that
it's actually communications so they can't they have to get a wiretap
well here's what will happen this canada thing will pass
and then the united states fbi will be like oh no we're now we're lagging
behind the canadians and so we need this
and uh... i think uh... it's it's a good point now to mention a very very
effective and simple uh... easy to implement solution
which is to use pgp
and uh... gpg gpg pgp whatever and it's you know you can get plugins for almost
any mail client you could think of
and uh... and and they're very readily available so don't
get me started on pgp what a bunch of morons those people are i'm sorry
i tried to get pgp installed on my machine out here when i was traveling
and have you ever gone to the pgp site and try to download their you know that
the freeware version
they force you to to to basically agree to buy the latest one you can't buy the
older one
uh... you can't you can't download the older one is you have to you have to
agree to buy something
this big long drawn out thing it used to be so simple to download pgp and install
it
they've made it so difficult now
okay well you're you're referring to the corporate version
uh... the actual company uh... that that sells pgp but there are many open source
implementations of it so don't scare the listeners away from uh...
uh... trying to use this because the uh...
there's probably a better plug-in that you could find it's a bit you may have
to say i have had i've had maybe a dozen people looking for something that run on
windows nobody has come up with anything
nobody there's really a maybe one of our listeners will send you an email about
it uh...
and if you do want to send us email it off the hook our email address is
o t h at twenty six hundred dot com
and our mailing address is
off the hook care of w b a i
one twenty wall street
to floor
new york new york
zero zero zero
uh... i guess we'll take some phone calls now if that's right with everyone
our file for one other little rant i'd like to go on and then we'll take some
phone calls uh... but
let's give out the phone number so people can start calling correct at the
front lines two one two two zero nine two nine hundred
uh... there's a new thing for writing andy as well
or what is the fact that they're offering
fifteen dollars
dsl right something like that if you don't want to do so
fifteen okay
we talked about these rat bastards alright
uh... i've been trying
to get the excel installed in an apartment in new york
uh... for months now literally months
here's the deal
if u
do not get the dsl directly from verizon
and this is a fact and i will i will argue anybody on this
they will not show up
to install it if you if you are getting dsl to another provider
uh... you you still need to have a rise income and install the line
however they will not
keep their appointment i've had somebody waiting
three different days from nine o'clock until six o'clock in the evening
they lied they they say that they were there and they were not there they say
that there is no access when there is plenty of access
if you ask a provider if you have somebody provides dsl another company
they will say yes this is standard practices what the right and does the
reason they do it is because
they're not making any money off of this now
there's a way around it
you can order a phone line order a phone line through verizon and they will come
and install that then you convert that phone line to dsl
and while you have your independent dsl line
i'm not going to do that i'm not going to play that stupid game instead what
i'd rather do
is let people know about this that this is their practice this is how they
operate
this is the you know that the depth that they think too
and i do intend to follow up with this uh... with the public service commission
and i i urge everybody else who has been through something like this
to do the same thing don't let them get away with this
i'm on you know i knew they did things like this i knew they went on the
vandalized line sometimes in
you know cut people's dsl access happens to me more times than i can count
but uh... you know to be so blatant about it is just
so annoying
and um... literally for months since the spring
we've been trying to get this line installed and they simply
do not show up and then they lie about it
horizon no longer have to uh... re-offer
dsl service to third-party providers
through their lines anymore
anyway do they
that's the first i'm hearing about this yeah i know they do
the the they what the government uh... the fcc converted uh... it from uh...
uh... communication service to an information something an information
service or something like that so now they don't actually have to offer their
lines to third parties
uh... i'm probably not getting that completely right but we've uh... we had
a story about that a couple weeks ago
and uh... i don't know if it's effective yet but it probably will be started soon
all right uh... i had one quick story i wanted to mention before we took phone
calls i'll be real quick
uh... it's interesting kind of post what the heck fallout
in that i was just walking minding my own business wearing my what the heck
had as i always do
uh... and someone on the street said
were you at what the heck
uh... and it turns out they had also been there and we got talking and uh...
and they work on a project that i have you know finally is kind of a kick for
me to get involved with it but i i may get involved with that and uh...
so i just thought that was interesting that even outside of what the heck it
kind of touches people
just walking down the street in manhattan
uh... while walking across campus
interesting yeah
but what the heck that they they really uh... get you notice you know i would
have never spoken to the guy who had been wearing it still want to what the
heck
all right let's take some phone calls
uh... so two one two two zero nine two nine hundred
uh... good evening you're on the air
uh...
i had to read it and shocked me
i am a i don't have to come about it i don't know anything about computers
i just want to know i had optimal online installed for its own service
and a friend of mine stated that it might not be a secure line to speak on
i don't know how to
ask the question
isn't secure to speak on for
there are no secure lines to speak on but uh... but the
what they use is uh... v o i p
and uh... and and i don't know uh... who monitors that but
is there any encryption for voice over i p
i think you might be asking
not that you can put on your i don't know the proper terminology i apologize for that
but i was just wondering i know i talk on a regular telephone line
and i found that the service where i live that was horrible
uh... so i switched optimal online which i thought was a better package deal
and uh...
i don't i don't have no complaints about it
i was just curious whether i could actually talk on the line not that i'm going to say
anything wrong
but i was is it a safe system
and say a regular telephone
here's the analysis you need to perform
uh...
the the analysis is
uh... how how much is it worth it uh... for whoever's hearing you
uh... to
to hear you
and and uh... how big a secret do you have
no secrets in my life sir
then they're probably not interested in overhearing you
yeah and what do you mean even with a regular phone line if someone
gets connects to the wire it's there and they can listen so
uh... and of course the federal government can always listen
uh... right with voice over i p
uh... if you want i would i would say call them and ask them what kind of data
privacy they have for the for the system
uh... and if they
uh... and and and calls back and tell us that means that you know myself
thank you i think i think it very much i was shocked when you answer the phone
thank you very much at all
have a good day right no problem
but i think it's a
having trouble with the phone system now
uh... it's been a phone call
evening here on the air
evening how are you
uh... you know my
wanted to ask uh... or actually follow up on
the uh...
uh... phone phone scenario a friend of mine
has uh... was that uh... mci
and they're not getting any service out of their arm
with a place in a service call no one's coming
so i just want to also voice my opinion on that
anything we can do about that or just
just wait public service commission uh...
the uh... they're listed in the front of the phone book and
you can complain to them hopefully something will be done but
we'll wait and see you'll get back to us and tell us uh... if anything is done
keep doing a good job
all right
uh... good evening you're on the air
that's right
yes emmanuel i've been enjoying hearing about your trip uh... last week i was reminded of my experience in jamaica a few years ago i was uh...
in montego and i saw a guy sitting underneath a mango tree
with a desk phone and a sign that said get your calls here
uh... somewhere i have the picture and i'll try and email it so it's another uh... union phone booth
that'd be interesting
that'd be interesting to add with the other one on the back of a future edition of twenty six hundred
maybe it could be the second picture of a person with a phone
uh... and maybe i'll also send in a picture of my parent pay phone from brazil which is pretty amusing
uh... but what i was calling about was the subway searchers which i'm very opposed to
i've joined the civil liberties uh...
stop the subway searchers campaign
but uh... i live in queensburg and uh... i saw last week two weeks ago
very quickly sir because we're almost out of time
two weeks ago there was a police officer searching bags on the platform
now that doesn't give you the option
to walk to the next train
you've got to actually leave the train
and what i'm wondering is can you then accuse the police of theft of service for making you get off the train
for not having your bag searched
and can they actually search you
after you've
gotten on the platform
that's my question i'll get off and listen thanks have a good night
unfortunately it seems like a lot of uh... the subway stations have now uh... written on the whiteboards
behind the uh... token booth clerks that you're subject to search if you enter the subway
which is unfortunate because it prevents the ability from just walking away so i i don't know
about the legal ramifications of that i don't think those whiteboards mean anything but we're uh... really out of time here
the police had alleged that uh... anyone suspicious would be searched whether they were entering or already in
well uh... that's all for us this week for off the hook uh... and for everyone here in the studio and for emmanuel and bernie
uh... goodnight