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And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI New York.
It's 7 o'clock. Time for Off The Hook.
Now I can't make a call
We couldn't get much worse
But if they could, they would
Bundledly bound for the best, expect the worst
I hope that's understood
Bundledly bound
Off The Hook
And a very good evening to everybody. The program is Off The Hook.
Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, back after two weeks.
And tonight we're joined by Jim
Hello
Mike
Hi
Redbird
Good evening
Redhack, is that you?
Yes
It's been a while
Yeah, it has
Wow, it's been so long, I don't think your mic is even working
You have to maintain your microphone. Everyone is handed a special microphone and it's up to them to keep it
So if someone sounds bad, it's their fault, not mine
So, yeah, try that again
Hello
Yeah, there you are
And Walter joins us as well
Hey
How are you doing?
I guess the first thing I should do is contact Bernie S.
Because Bernie S. is off the continent
Uh-oh
Yeah, he's off the continent, he's in a foreign land
And, well, you guys know where he is
I'm going to hold out as long as possible to see if any obvious clues are given out in the phone call that we make to him
But
You're probably going to hear somebody speaking in a foreign language
And if you know that foreign language, you'll know a few seconds before everybody else knows where Bernie S. actually is
Now we're calling our special hotline that goes directly to where Bernie is located
Oh, you know what? I'm not sure about the room number
I know it's, I think I know what it is, it's one of two things
Your call is being connected
Alright
Our call is being connected
You better hope you don't get the wrong person
Haha
Uh, yes, hello
Good evening
Do you speak English?
Yes, may I help you?
Uh, yes, hi, I'm trying to reach room 319, please
Okay, just one second
Thank you
Anybody understand that language?
English, yes
Not that language
Hello
Bernie
Uh, it's one o'clock in the morning
Oh good, I got the right room
I was afraid, you know, I wasn't sure if I was off by a hundred
So I was afraid I was going to wake up somebody in the country that you're in
Which we have not revealed yet
You sure sound kind of down
Aren't you having fun over there?
I'm hungry
It sounds like he is having fun
I think that was a clue as to where he is
I'm in Budapest
Budapest, which last I checked was in Hungary
And Bernie was making a witty little joke there
I'm looking out over the window here
At the Danube River, which is not blue
It's not?
No
So Strauss was lying all this time
Laszlo and I were in Vienna a couple of days ago
And we observed there, it was green
But here it's brown
The green Danube
The brown Danube
Are you in Buda or in Pest?
Oh, Jim is showing off his knowledge of the two cities
Separated by the Danube, whatever color it happens to be
If I recall correctly, Pest is the one with all the commerce
And Buda is the one with the statue, right?
A Buda statue?
No, not a Buda statue, you word I can't say on the radio
I'm on the Buda side
It's interesting there, speaking of statues
They have a museum here
Are you sick again?
Every time you travel you get sick
Actually, it's true
I haven't been sick for an entire year, Manuel
But Laszlo and I both came down with
We hope it's not bird flu
Yeah, that's right
Bring some bird flu back here
We could really use that
I'll make the customs agents very happy to see that
There's a lot of people upset here about bird flu
They're trading in their dogs and cats for paintings
Because they're afraid the birds are going to give their cats and dogs
You know, that's almost crazy enough for me to believe you
Are they really trading in their dogs and cats for paintings?
They're taking them to shelters
Saying we don't want these animals anymore
Because they found some in Austria
Where we were a couple days ago
Some cats have contracted bird flu
Because I guess they ate infected birds
Right, but where did the idea to give them paintings in exchange come in?
Well, I mean, something that's not going to catch bird flu
I threw in the paintings as a suggestion
Ah, okay, that was your little touch
I knew something didn't make sense
Not funny, though
So there's no painting for cats store anywhere?
It's just...
Not yet, maybe somebody has an idea now
Right
All right, so you're at the CBIT conference
This is the one that attracts, what is it, 1,000, 2,000 people?
How many?
600,000 people go to Hanover, Germany every year
I was off by a little bit
CBIT conference, which is, as you noted,
The world's largest IT, telecom, technology conference
And the closest place you could get a room was Budapest?
No, no, we stayed in Hanover for several days
While we tromped around the massive Hanover Fair complex
Where CBIT is
Observed many interesting technologies
Met up with some friends
Our friends at the crypto phone booth were there
In good form
And there was a lot of talk about voice over IP here this year
A lot of voice over IP technologies
Skype was everywhere
A lot of people are jumping onto the Skype bandwagon
As we have also been doing
Well, we stayed on that bandwagon for a couple of weeks
And we got off again
I think you should get back on it
Well, you know, you've got to do that on your end
Because you're the one with the...
You know, I've got to say, you sound better now in Hungary
Than you do in Philadelphia
Because you're not using that Sprint PCS phone
The Sprint PCS phone, yeah
We're using a landline here
I am, in a hotel
Although I do have a GSM phone that I picked up here
A tri-band from Siemens that works pretty well
But might as well use this landline for better fidelity
I was starting to say, speaking of statues
They have a museum here
It's the largest outdoor museum
Of former Soviet Union-inspired statues
Oh, wow
You can bring home a couple
We can put them up on Red Square
They rounded up all the statues
After the fall of the Berlin Wall
They rounded up all the statues of Lenin, Marx, Engels
And other Soviet heroes
And put them all in one park
You can observe them all
Do they move or do they do anything
Other than stare you in the face
With sort of a threatening look
That's it, it's kind of interesting
They're all in one small enclosed fenced-in area
Wow
So are there any other cities you're planning on visiting?
Well, we spent a few days in Hanover for Siebid
And then a couple days in Vienna, Austria
For those of you who don't know
And then two days here in Budapest
Where we've not been feeling too well
But we still managed to see as much as possible
Including an amazing telecom museum they have here
It's the Telephone Museum here in Budapest
Where they have a fully operating 7A1 rotary switch
That was put into service in 1928
And remained in service here until 1985, believe it or not
Beautiful step-by-step switches
Which you can actually observe working
Because they don't have it in service
On the public switch telephone network anymore
But it's still live on some end-to-end extensions
And you can dial up another phone
And listen to those dulcet tones in a handset
And see the other phone ring
And watch all the relays clatter and click
It's music to my ears
The last time I was in a step-by-step exchange
Was about 25 years ago in Dallas, Pennsylvania
One of the last ones that was still working
Around...
Dallas, Pennsylvania, huh?
Yeah, near Wilkes-Barre, Scranton
Isn't there a Philadelphia in Texas?
There is, it's very strange
I wonder if they're sister cities
Interesting
Well, okay, Bernie, are you here for the duration?
Are you here for the whole hour?
Yeah, I'll be hanging in
By the way, if anybody's interested in that telecom museum
They have a website that's worth checking out
It's an excellent website
It's called...
Let me look it up here
Well, keep talking, I'll come up with it
Here it is
www.postamuseum.hu
That's P-O-S-T-A-M-U-Z
Not an S
P-O-S-T-A-M-U-Z-E-U-M
.hu
And .hu is the top-level domain for Hungary
So check it out
It's a superb virtual tour of the telephone museum here in Budapest
Okay
Bernie S. joining us from Budapest
Where it's what time in the morning now?
A little after 1 a.m.
Oh, it's not so late
Well, it just seems that...
Is Laszlo there with you?
He is, but he's feeling even more under the weather than I
So he's trying to...
We have a flight in the morning
Back to Munich and then...
For a few hours and then back to New York
I see
He'll be staying and then I'll be taking a train back to Philadelphia
Okay, well, sounds like an action-packed day for you
And we'll have Bernie on for the hour from Hungary
I think it's the first time we've been connected to Hungary during the show
Okay, so we're on for the first time in the last couple of weeks
I want to thank everybody who called in and pledged during our three...
Our three appearances during the pledge drive
Which I think is some kind of record for us
We did pretty well
And again, as the announcement before our show said
Make sure you honor those pledges
Making the pledge is good, but it's not the whole story
You've got to actually honor the pledge
If you've paid with a credit card, fine
It's already taken care of
Otherwise, please send in that check
Anything exciting happen in the last couple of weeks that you guys want to jump in on?
No?
Yes
Oh, Jim, you've got something
Yes, yes, Microsoft has come to a settlement
Someone sued Microsoft
Because Microsoft was bad in that
If you had bought a computer in almost anywhere
It came preloaded with Microsoft software
And there was no way around this
Even if you wanted other software
The people who sold you the computer
They had to pay Microsoft
And you had to pay them pretty much
And someone sued
And finally there's a settlement
And the terms of the settlement are quite interesting
Because it applies to anybody who bought certain Microsoft products
Between May 18th, 1994 through December 31st, 2004
And if you bought Windows 95, 98, 98 Second Edition or Millennium
If you bought MS-DOS and Windows from 1.0 to 3.1
Windows for Workgroups, Windows NT Workstation
Windows 2000, Windows XP Home Edition
Or Office
Or a whole lot of things
Yeah, get on with it
Just three more
Office, Word, and Excel
They will send you vouchers
And these vouchers are good for anything
Computers, peripherals, or software
When you buy any of those
You present the vouchers
And you'll get cash back
And
How much are these vouchers worth?
Well, it depends on what you bought
If it's the operating software, it's $12
If it's the other software, it's $5
But you can trade and sell these to other people
Or they can trade or sell them to you
And if you ask for up to five of these items
From the settlement
You don't need proof
Okay
If you ask for more than five, they'll investigate
And they will prosecute if you're lying
But if you ask for up to five, you don't need proof
You're implying that anybody right now
Can just get up to $100 from Microsoft
Without presenting any proof whatsoever
No, I'm not saying that at all
You can get these vouchers
Well, vouchers that are good for cash
It would be wrong
I'm not saying you're encouraging people to do this
Maybe you're warning people not to do this
No, don't do this, yes
Don't do that, but you could
It's not going to add up
Five items at $12 is the maximum each
That's $60
If you just got Office Word and Excel
Five times that, that's $25
It's not $100
Well, it's close
It's getting there
Well, okay
But there's more information at either
www.MicrosoftNYSettlement.com
NY Settlement, so it's New York
Right, it's only for New York
You had to buy this in New York
And you have to live in New York?
I'm not too sure about that
I've read this fine print
And it just boggles the mind
Even though it's almost in English
Well, we're pretty boggled here
Redhack, what do you have on this?
Well, I was just going to make sure that you mentioned
It was in New York, that's all
Yeah, you're aware of this?
Well, Jim was telling me about it earlier
Ah, okay
That's what that lecture was about
I think it's pretty safe to say that
Most people who have used computers
Have either approached or exceeded that five limit
Very, very easily
Right
Well, you're assuming that most people
Who use computers use Microsoft
Well
Yeah
Well, it's difficult to buy a computer
Without it being preloaded with Microsoft software
Unless you, you know, build it from scratch
Or whatever
What's also interesting is that
The lawsuit was targeted at Microsoft
Which doesn't seem to be the person
Who's forcing you to use their software
If you're purchasing a computer from, you know
IBM, Dell, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
They're the people who basically say, okay, our
Nope
Microsoft used to have, which was the target
Of many lawsuits, including, I assume, this one
Deals with the larger computer vendors such as Dell
Where Dell would pay Microsoft per computer shipped
Which is not the same as paying them
Per copy of Microsoft operating system shipped
So even if you were to buy a PC from Dell
And somehow convince Dell not to put Microsoft on it
Dell would still have to pay Microsoft
Which is a violation of all kinds of antitrust laws
And the cause of this settlement
Mike is right, that is exactly the basis for this lawsuit
Okay, but is that the case anymore?
Because I know some companies
No, because it was deemed to be illegal
So they had to stop
Yeah, restraint of trade in the state of New York
So that kind of thing doesn't happen anymore
Yeah, and once more, the website is
MicrosoftNYSettlement.com
And there's an 877 toll-free number
877-867-6133
Where you can get the claim forms
And get some money back from your hard deal with Microsoft
Interesting
Many of our listeners may have traveled to New York City
For instance, and purchased computers
Or peripherals or something that used Microsoft software
During that time window
Because, you know, there's a lot of stores in New York
That sell computers
And, you know, you could have been there on vacation
And bought computers there
Or you could have bought a computer online
And not realized you were buying it from someone in New York
That's right
Or you could have just talked about New York
With somebody while you were using your computer
I guess there's all sorts of ways you can justify this
You could have listened to this very radio program
Which emanates from New York
That's right, too
I guess all listeners automatically get free money from Microsoft
All right, well, thanks, Jim, for that info
Now, this is an interesting letter that a friend of mine got
And I think it just shows what banks are doing these days
You know, we always hear about banks
Losing their information on customers
This confidential information
And you notice what happens when...
Has anyone ever gotten a letter like that?
Where, whoops, we left a computer disk lying outside in the street
Someone must have taken it
And your information might have been in there
I got one just recently
And what do they usually say in that same letter?
That you're not at risk or something
Okay, well, I'm going to read this to you
And you tell me if it's something...
I didn't read the letter
So I don't know what they said
All right, all right
I know I got one
But what they say in that letter is something similar to this
Dear person, we are writing today to inform you about an incident
That may have affected the privacy of your personal information
With Washington Mutual
We've been notified that a courier van
That transports daily bank processing work was stolen
We are working closely with law enforcement regarding this incident
And sincerely regret any inconvenience this situation may cause
We wanted to notify you
So we can help you take immediate action to protect yourself
And encourage your vigilance over your financial affairs
During the next 12 to 24 months
I don't know why it just does particular amounts of months
So attention thieves wait 25 months before doing anything
No, there's more though, there's more
Ask that you report any issues of concern to us
Now, to assist you with this process
We would like to offer you a free one-year membership
In a credit monitoring service provided by Equifax
You see where this is going?
Every time this happens
They offer you a free enrollment in Equifax
And I have a feeling that there really wasn't any rip-off of a van
In fact, my friend who got this letter
And is a customer of Washington Mutual
Called the very number that's on this piece of paper
And they had no idea what he was talking about
They didn't know anything about a van being stolen
So, you know, how do we find out if this is even true?
I suspect that just coming up with weird scenarios
Just so you'll get a little bit more worried
And buy their product
Which is what you wind up doing after the one year is over
There has to be a police report if a van was stolen
Okay, go get it then
What police precinct is going to have this?
We don't know
I don't know
Washington Mutual is huge
They have branches on Mars
And it's not even a Washington Mutual van that was stolen
You'd have to know the name of the courier service they use
That's right
It's so vague
And they don't say when or anything like that
So this to me is the sleaziest of all scams
If it is in fact what I think it is
It's vaguely reminiscent of the well-known
Homeland Security color scheme warning scam
In that it makes people afraid of some sort of vague threat
And urges you to do something
That really isn't going to affect your safety anyway
Right, but it'll line their pocketbooks nicely
Now Mike, does the memory jar a little bit?
Do you think maybe they might have offered you a free year?
No, that's not the letter I got
There's some massive thing going on
That not a lot is known about
Where debit cards in certain large retail stores
The numbers were kept improperly
So they're reissuing a lot of debit cards
Particularly I hear Citibank is affected
Although in my case it was a very small local bank
In my hometown that I still have an account with
They were sending me a new debit card anyway
And then they sent me another one
Because of this security breach
And it was all these stores that I never shop at
And certainly never use that card at
So I don't know what was going on
But did they ever make any offer to you?
No, they did not try and sell me anything
Walter?
Well, I've gotten letters like that
And one of them told me to go out
And get my own credit protection
And they didn't make me an offer
So I don't know which is worse
They didn't offer to help you?
No, they said you should probably get some help
I'll bet if you call them though
They might have some ideas
I don't know
It's very good for these credit monitoring agencies
The other thing about this credit protection
Is that they're not protecting you
They're protecting the bank
Because if an unauthorized charge is made
The bank is liable
You're not liable
That's right
And that's something people need to remember
Yeah, try to keep your credit card numbers safe
Just because of the hassle
But if somebody does figure out your credit card number
And charge something
You're not the one that's going to be held responsible
Assuming you catch it
If you don't catch it, obviously
You're going to wind up paying
I got a notice in the mail too
Oh yeah?
From ING Direct
This was about three years ago
These are the people with the park benches
Yeah, the really strange ads
With the orange dot or whatever
Their dots
I got a postcard in the mail from them
About three years ago
Not warning me about careless handling
Of my account information
But the postcard itself
Had my name, address, and bank account number
On the postcard
Not in a sealed envelope
On the postcard
On the outside of the postcard
Was my bank account number
And I called them about this
And nobody seemed to know what to do about it
Then I got another one
A couple of weeks later
And then I was really annoyed
So I tracked down their chief privacy officer
We actually have one
And he was sort of flummoxed by this whole thing
And investigated
It's like, oh yeah, it was a marketing glitch
We put all the account numbers on these postcards
And we mailed that direct mail
And we're sorry, we won't let it happen again
It was just grossly
Careless use of customer
Bank account information
On a freaking postcard
So I no longer do business with ING Direct
Well the phone company used to do things like that
Maybe 10, 15 years ago
Where they'd send out postcards with
You know, you're a pin on it or something
Or make it very easy
So if someone could see through an envelope
And see your pin
But you know, we should have learned by now
It's 2006
And why trust the credit protection agencies?
They can equally lose your information
And then what do you do?
Yeah, or blacklist you
And say all kinds of things that aren't true
Listen to people who really
Don't know what they're talking about
Yeah, it's
Why give them money?
That's what I don't understand
There was a good demonstration
At the CBIT show a few days ago
We saw of technology
And countermeasures technology
Along these lines
There was a demonstration
Of these so-called skimmers
That are hardware devices
Attached to the front of
Automated teller machines, ATM machines
And these skimmers will
Read your mag stripe information
And with a tiny camera
Record the keystrokes you make on the keypad
And these things are very common in Europe
These ATM skimmers
They're somewhat prevalent
According to the people at the company
In New York and other parts of the U.S.
A friend of mine at work
Was hit by one of these in Philadelphia
A couple years ago
But pretty interesting devices
They're not very large
But they contain a small computer
And a false front
That snaps over part of the ATM machine
That looks like a regular machine
And you kind of have to look carefully
To see if one of these things is
Glommed on the front of the ATM machine
That you're sliding
Your mag stripe card into
But supposedly this company
Has developed some technology
And they're working with Dbold
And some of the other
ATM machine manufacturers
To prevent this from being a problem
They were kind of cagey
About how it worked
And when I asked them
Some pointed technical questions
They got all upset
And just wouldn't talk to me anymore
Some of these things
Are actually really, really well designed
And very difficult to tell
That this is not part of the ATM
Unless you're actually familiar with the ATM
Yeah, I saw a video of one
Where it basically snapped over
The sliding thing
And I think it even had a motor in it
So you'd put your card in
And it would feed the card
So it would actually go into the ATM
While reading the mag stripe
And then, you know, it would come back out
It's pretty interesting
People, this has happened in New York
People were arrested
For installing some of these
In some banks in Chinatown
A little while ago
But I think their devices
Were a little obvious to find
Yeah, in fact
We should go out looking for some
Because some of them are pretty obvious
They practically say fake ATM on them
Okay, moving on
The Terrorist Screening Center
Has celebrated its second anniversary
As keeper of the government's
Terrorist watch list on Tuesday
By disclosing it had received
About 6,000 positive hits
Of known or suspected terrorists
The watch list, which is updated daily
Contains about 350,000 identities
Which include partial names
And identifying marks
But about 200,000 names
Of real people, known individuals
That's unbelievable
Can you imagine that?
200,000 potential terrorists
Are out there, according to these guys
But here's the thing
They're not potential terrorists
Because if they were potential
Or actual terrorists
They would be arrested
Well, not if they're not in this country
Well, but a lot of these people
Are in this country
Hey, Kennedy
When they say 6,000 positive hits
Does that include, like, I mean
A hit could be anything
It could be, well, okay
Well, we got this 8-year-old
Who has the same name
I mean, what's a positive hit?
You mean an actual match
To the real person?
Well, that's the problem
There were all these reports
Of, like, these babies
Like, you know
Babies and, like, old people
Getting hit with this stuff
You know, anyway
According to this stuff
Most of the 200,000 are overseas
And have never tried
To enter the United States
So, I don't know
You know, if there were
200,000 people out there
Who are suspected terrorists
You know, I think that
That's gotta say something right there
You know, why are so many people
Into so-called terrorism
And what exactly
Is the agenda here?
That's not a lot of people
There are six
There are six billion people
In the world
All right, 200,000 is
What?
Less than 1%
Well, still
I mean, you know
1% of the people
In the world
Want to destroy, you know
People
A lot less than 1%
Yeah, it's a lot less than that
Anyway
What's the size
Of the U.S. military anyway?
Yeah, it still seems like
A huge number
But I just thought
It was interesting
And they're actually
Trying to keep track
Of all these people
From foreign countries
How do they get the information
To start with?
You know, what kind of intelligence?
Well, they make it up
Or whatever they do
It's not at all accurate
I mean, even the people
Who they actually have
In Guantanamo
Some of them, yeah
Are members of
Al-Qaeda or whatever
But a lot of them
They're just in the wrong place
At the wrong time
Right, what constitutes
Being considered a terrorist?
You know, being
A foreign fighter?
Well, you know
A lot of people
Are foreign fighters
If they're in their own country
Yeah, I mean
There was that DHS memo
That I saw
Maybe a year and a half ago
That had, you know
Be careful of protesters
That may have musical instruments
Right
Or, you know
Financial institutions
Or whatever
Things like that
So, I think
They have a very
Very broad idea
Of who could be a terrorist
You know, if you've
Gone to a protest
Maybe in another country
Or even in this country
You could be on a list
Who knows?
Yeah, and there's no way
To find out
They're certainly not
Going to show that list
To anybody
But it's funny
That they're even
Giving out numbers
Or even say
What criteria they use
To put someone on that list
No, because if they do that
That's giving out
National security information
And they
The old sources
And methods
Ruse
Well, no
We can't reveal
Our sources and methods
It's national security
That's right
And get away with it
Okay, what else
Has been going on?
Well, we unveiled
The new HOPE website
You guys all see it?
Brand new HOPE website
Is on
This is a piece of paper
It doesn't really reflect
The magazine
It doesn't really reflect
The majesty of the site
But if you go to
www.hope.net
You'll see it
And we are
Soliciting speakers
If you have a panel
Or a talk
That you think
Would be a good idea
Please go to the site
Or just email
Speakers at 2600.com
I really want to
Get a good turnout
As far as
Panels and speakers
Of all different sorts
That's
The conference
Is coming up
This July
July 21, 22, and 23
Here in New York City
At the Hotel Pennsylvania
And we're going to
Have a panel
Of speakers
From all over
Pennsylvania
And we
We also
Are looking for
Volunteers
In fact
We are having
A meeting this Friday
I believe it starts
At 6 o'clock
At the Citigroup Center
And if you
Want to be part
Of the conference
Show up to that
Same place
That we have
The 2600 meetings at
And we're going to
Be having
The 53rd
In Lexington
Yeah, between
Lexington and 3rd
And just come to
The lobby
If you want to be
Part of the conference
And do other things
We're going to be
Having regular meetings
Up until the conference
It's going to be
A whole lot of fun
And Leslie and I
Ran into some males
And females
Here in Europe
Who are planning
To attend the
Hope No. 6
Conference as well
Well that's good
Human beings
You ran into
Yes
All right, well
That's nice to know
Please spread the word
Through the Hungarian streets
If you can
And we want
As many people
From around the world
To show up as possible
And around the corner
That's right, that's right
If you're in New York
You know, it's
Especially good
If you're in New York
And you want to
Give a talk
Because it's a lot
Simpler for you
Obviously to get
To the conference
Than to fly
From all over the world
But of course
We also want people
From all over the world
To come too
And share
Their perspective
We also want people
From New Jersey
And the reason
We want people
From New Jersey
Is that the
State legislature
Of New Jersey
Wants to make
Anonymous posting
On the internet illegal
There's
Someone introduced
The bill
That essentially
Says that
If you want to
Post anonymously
Your ISP
Has to know
Your real name
And address
And all sorts
Of information
So in case
It's ever subpoenaed
It has to go back to you
Never mind the fact
That generally
Subpoenas do
Get back to
The real person
Behind them
With the technology
That we have now
This would
Essentially
Make
You know
Postings where you
Go to Yahoo
Or whatever
And get a
Mailbox
And an address
And then post
Through that
Impossible to do
Unless you're
From a fixed
IP address
How would this
Be enforced?
I mean
You could bounce
Through a proxy
In another country
Exactly
Exactly
They
The list of things
That they would
Have to ban
Technically
Just keeps rising
And rising
As more and more
People think about this
And never mind the fact
That it's possible
That physical pamphleting
In the United States
Can be anonymous
There's
There's no difference
Between physical pamphleting
And the Internet
Equivalent thereof
Which the
State legislature
Of New Jersey
Is trying to end
So
Even if it passes
This
This should be
Struck down
All right
Interesting
Development out of
New Jersey there
Also there's
New developments
On the Google case
A big article
In
Yesterday's
New York Times
This is the one
Involving the United States
Government
Wanting to know
Bits of information
From Google
And Google not wanting
To tell them
So the U.S. government
Is the one that Google
Won't cooperate with
Exactly
Yeah
They'll cooperate
With the Chinese
But not the U.S.
How about that
Anyway
After the Justice Department
Drastically reduced
Its request for information
From Google
A federal judge
Said on Tuesday
That he intended
To approve
At least part of that request
The government
First subpoenaed
In federal district
Court in San Jose
Judge James Ware
What a great name
To have
If you're ruling
On a computer case
Ware
W-A-R-E
Said that in supporting
The government's
More limited request
He would nonetheless
Pay attention to
Google's concerns
About its trade secrets
And the privacy
Of its users
What the government
Is now requesting
Is a sample
Of 50,000 website addresses
In Google's index
Instead of a million
Which it was demanding
Until recently
And it is asking
For just 5,000 search queries
Compared with an earlier
Demand for an entire
Week of queries
Which could have
Amounted to billions
Of search terms
How much information
In there
Could be of concern
To people who have
Used Google
And how much
Is just of concern
To Google themselves
I don't understand
What they want
This information for
It's
I guess they want to know
What people are searching for
But does this necessarily
Link back to what
People are doing
At what computers
Well I read somewhere
That they wanted to take
These search queries
And then run them
Themselves
On Google
And see what came up
Or something crazy like that
Which you know
If they want to
I mean for some
Online pornography
Is what are they
Trying to see what
Pornography you can find
I mean they can just
Put in a couple of terms
The gist of this
Is that the federal
Government
Or this Bush
Administration
Has asked their
Justice Department
To make pornography
Their number one threat
Even behind
Terrorism believe it or not
In investigations
And they're trying
To reliven
Laws like
That were stated
Laws like
That were struck down
As unconstitutional
Like the
COPPA
The Child Online
Pornography Act
The CDA
The Communications Decency Act
All which were
Very
Vague approaches
To saying
Well
Information shouldn't be
Posted on the internet
Without really specifying
What indecent was
Or terms
Vague terms like that
And
They need to
Specify
The feds believe
They need to specify
Or show how much
Porn
Is easily
Searched for
In order to
Justify
A reincarnation
Of one of these
Unconstitutional laws
So that's
That's the justification
Behind it apparently
I would like to see them
You know
Enforce something like
I mean
The problem with the internet
Is it's a world medium
It's not
Unfortunately
The United States
Controls it
In a manner of speaking
But I mean
It's a world medium
I'd like to see them
You know
Shut down websites
In other countries
Because they get upset
About pornography
Or
Albert Gaderi
He says that
This
New request
Has
99.99%
Of Google
Unexposed
This teeny sliver
Will tell them nothing
This would have been
A very different case
If the government
Walked in the door
And said we need
50,000 URLs
And 1,000 searches
It's doubtful
We would have been in court
We got to where we wanted
So they're
Claiming victory
And I guess they're
Going to give them
That information now
I don't really see
How it's any different
Well
I mean
The problem is
That the government
Is not doing
Its own research
It's relying on
Just any information
That anyone has
They think is theirs
To
Use
Not
In interests
That are not necessarily
The interests
Of the party
That created that information
No I disagree Mike
What the government
Is doing
Is trying to figure out
Whether or not
Search engines
Are used by people
Looking at porn
If people
Looking at porn
Are using Google
The government
Will say
See
See
Porn is more
Of a danger
Than you say it is
And we should
Shut it down
Well now they're
Asking for
50,000
Search
Requests
They're hoping
That people
Will have searched
For naked
Underage girls
Yeah okay
But they're
Asking for
50,000 search
Requests
Alright
And
They're not
Necessarily asking
For one
Are they going
To be very upset
And ask for more
I think it's
1,000 queries
And 50,000
Like returned
URLs or something
Like that
Okay
But you know
It doesn't sound
Like they're targeting
One particular thing
They're just hoping
That because so many
People are searching
For these terms
That you know
They're going to
Get that
Well actually
I think this case
Is coming from
What Bernie S.
Mentioned
COPPA
The Child Online
Protection Act
The software
Isn't as good
As
More drastic
Measures
I think
There are
Laws about
Filtering in libraries
And
I think it's
Directly related
To the
COPPA
So you think
Something
I guess a proposal
For something
Stronger
Is going to come
Out of this
Yeah
I think
That's what
The government
Is trying to
Use this information
For
Interesting
So they're trying
To argue
That the law
Is constitutional
And apparently
To do so
They feel
They need to
Prove that
There is
Pornography
On the internet
Or something
But the whole
Point here
Is that
The law
Is irrelevant
There's no way
To control
The content
And
All these
Attempts
Are pretty
Much futile
And how
Would you
Define
Pornography
Or children
Looking at
The thing is
We don't know
Because the
Government's
Not telling us
They're just
Demanding the
Information
And it's up
To us
To speculate
What they
Could possibly
Want it for
And in a
Few years
I guess
We'll find
Out when
They impose
New draconian
Laws
But in any
Event we
Have to move
On
And
We
Have to
Move
On
And
We
Have to
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
We
Have
To
Move
On
And
Part
3
It's yours, your computer is allowed to play it,
but you can't say, well, now I want
to sell it to this other person.
But if you buy something, generally you can also sell it.
That's the whole point of owning something,
is that you can give it to somebody else.
This is exactly where the copyright industry
is trying to go.
They're trying to move from a society where you do, in fact,
own the thing you bought to one where you merely license it,
and that license is non-transferable.
Yeah, it's something to keep in mind
if you're going to get your music that way.
I don't think there's anything better than actually going out
and having the original CD yourself,
because then you have all the artwork,
you have the lyrics, whatever.
But it's got to be reasonably priced.
If they price it out of the reach of most people,
they cannot be surprised when everybody
wants to download these things, and it's
out of control in that way.
But yeah, be careful.
Be careful if you download from commercial establishments,
because you're not really getting what you're paying for.
OK, my name is Michael.
I am from Regina, Saskatchewan in Canada.
Just wanted to say to you and the rest of the guys
on Off The Hook that you guys do a hell of a job.
And I've been listening to you for a long time now.
I also buy 2,600.
Great job on the magazine.
Off The Hook has become a Sunday ritual for me.
A Sunday ritual?
That's because I guess it's Sunday in Regina now?
Is that how it works?
You know, Canada's interesting.
So one day I get off of work that I
can get up in the morning and listen to it
on the 2,600 website.
I clean the house while I listen.
Isn't this great?
People are planning their week around the show
and listening to us on different days while booming
through the speakers as they're doing household chores.
My wife has recently got hooked on the show, too.
So we both listen as we clean the house together.
Anyway, enough of me rambling.
Just wanted to say, great job on the show.
Keep up the phenomenal work.
Thank you very much, Michael, from Regina.
Off The Hook crew, you've been talking about old shows.
I was going through the archives.
I had the idea of listening to the first show after 9-11.
I have to admit, there was a somber moment.
It actually made me cry.
All those emotions of that time came rushing back.
I was moved to do this because of the new movie called
Flight 93 that is coming out soon about the flight that
was hijacked on September 11 that was supposed
to crash somewhere in DC.
I think that's the one that crashed in the field.
I think that we really need to have a silent moment
and remember that time and maybe play a clip of that show.
Well, actually, we did do that.
We played a clip of that very show.
I think what we need to never forget and constantly
remind people of this is that we don't become comfortable again.
I know that a lot has happened since then,
but it doesn't change the fact that many lives were lost
and there was a great devastation that
happened, signed Doug.
Interesting.
We can't become comfortable?
Yeah.
I have a problem with that because I
think that's something that we have to ask ourselves.
Do we really want to be living in this perpetual state
of fear and paranoia where everything, the police say,
well, we can't build a new building because it
has to be another 25 feet in because someone else could blow
up a truck outside of it, and you
have to put barricades in front of every high-risk target.
All that does is move terrorists to low-risk targets,
and more people get killed as a result.
This whole issue of comfort is very fleeting in and of itself.
So I don't see what any of this homeland security paranoia
has gotten us at all, except something to laugh at.
Eventually, we'll become comfortable.
I mean, over history, many terrible things have happened.
Cities burn, et cetera, et cetera.
And eventually, people get over it.
Yeah, but when the whole direction of society
changes as a result, how often does that change back?
We're not just seeing Reconstruction.
In fact, we're not seeing Reconstruction.
What we're seeing are all these new laws, new rules,
new ways of thinking.
We laughed at the color coding.
Now it's an accepted part of life.
We laughed at the name Homeland Security
because it just sounded so science fiction, evil-ish.
And everybody uses it now.
We laughed at the barricades going up their every place.
And people assume such things as having valid ID
in an airport actually means something.
Think about how much more inconvenient
everything has become over the past couple of years
after this and how the security aspect of it
really hasn't changed at all.
Right, I mean, if you wanna blow up a skyscraper,
you can do it.
Again, I hope I'm not really shocking anybody
by saying that.
It's not hard to be a terrorist.
It's not very nice, but it's not hard.
And no matter what you do,
no matter how many barricades you put up
and how much you restrict free speech
or whatever else you wanna restrict,
you're never gonna change that.
So you might as well become comfortable
in the fact that most people don't wanna blow you up.
And think about the people who do
and maybe think of the reasons why
so many people seem to want to at the moment.
I'm actually hopeful, Emanuel.
You're hopeful.
Today, here in Hungary, Budapest specifically,
Václav and I observed and participated in
a lot of in-the-streets celebrations.
Today is the anniversary of Hungary's 1848 revolution.
And this country has been occupied
by lots of different other countries
and experienced really serious devastation.
A lot of the churches and other historic buildings
we visited today had bullet holes and bomb holes
in them still.
And I'm looking out over a bridge
over the Danube River right now
that was blown up by the Nazis in World War II.
And that was reconstructed
and a lot of the stuff is reconstructed.
And these people we saw today celebrating
did look comfortable.
They did not look afraid.
And they've experienced far more devastation
than 3,000 people in the US who died,
not to diminish that loss,
but things can change.
And it's all about people.
We saw huge throngs of people in the streets
and in parks just really celebrating their freedom,
which was hard won.
And in fact-
Yes, but you see, that's the thing.
They were fighting for their freedom.
They were occupied by a foreign power.
We are the power.
In fact, we're the only power.
And that's what scares me so much
is the fact that there's no real resistance to it.
In fact, the whole rest of the world
is having trouble resisting it.
So what's it gonna take?
I'm just saying it can be done.
I saw the Hungarians look comfortable and happy today.
And they've experienced far worse than we have.
And I think if Americans get off their butts
and really demand the freedoms back
that they're losing over the past couple, three years,
I think they'll get it.
But enough people have to demand it.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's the big if factor here.
When are people gonna start demanding things?
All right, let's take some phone calls.
212-209-2900 is our telephone number.
We haven't been taking calls for quite some time.
So it'd be nice to see if any listeners are still out there
and what you have to say and what's on your mind.
212-209-2900.
We're on the air for another 14 minutes or so.
Bernie S. joining us live from Budapest in Hungary.
Anything going on in the streets over there, Bernie?
Lots of celebrations.
Just incredible concerts and flag waving
and beer drinking.
And just, it was really a lot of fun.
And people seem very happy and comfortable here.
It's good to see.
A lot of cops on the street?
I saw almost none.
Amazing how we can go anywhere in Europe
and that's the case.
Yeah.
It's really weird.
Laszlo and I yesterday ventured a little too close
to the Parliament building.
We sort of hopped the fence
to get a better look at the other side.
You just don't learn, do you?
We didn't know it was a secure area.
Yeah, hopped the fence in front of Parliament.
Okay, so what happened?
Sniper fire or what?
Well, no, somebody blew a whistle.
A police officer blew a whistle at us and said,
no, you must go around this way.
Like, oh, okay.
In the US, you probably would have been shot.
That's ironic.
We just felt like, you know, it didn't look,
there weren't like barricades
like there are around the Capitol building.
It was just like a little, you know, fence.
You could just sort of step.
It wasn't, it didn't even resemble a fence for that.
You know, it just, it didn't look opposing or oppressive.
And yet things aren't blowing up over there.
Amazing.
Not at all.
Okay, let's take a phone call.
Good evening, you're on off the hook.
Oh, you know, you should have stayed on
just a little bit longer.
Let's try over here.
Good evening, you're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
Hello?
Hi, what's on your mind?
You guys are, first of all, I love the show.
I listen to it whenever I have a chance.
But you guys are talking about flight 93.
Did you ever listen?
Did you not listen to loose change
and all the issues about that?
There was no blood.
There was no plane parts.
There's nothing.
Oh, you know, I really, I have such a problem
with all these conspiracy theories concerning,
obviously, obviously planes crashed, buildings fell.
I mean, yeah, there's a coverup,
but that's not where the coverup is, I don't think.
Wait a minute, wait a minute.
This is clear.
There were no bodies there.
There was no blood.
They did a whole lot of excavation.
There was nothing there.
Okay, so let me ask you, where are the bodies?
Where are these people?
They don't know where they are.
There's no plane that's there.
So they're being held someplace?
What's the statement in that?
I don't understand it.
Makes no sense.
Because what was taking place clearly
was that this was a false flag operation
that was being done by people within the government.
Oh, God.
You know, I just, I'm sorry.
I just don't have any patience for this.
It's the silliest thing ever.
What happened was people crashed planes into buildings.
All right, the buildings fell down.
The people in the planes died.
Why, you know, why do you need more than that?
Why do you need some kind of government conspiracy?
Even if the government was behind it,
they could have just done that.
They didn't have to like put explosives
in the World Trade Center or kidnap people
and hold them someplace else.
But Jim, you have something to contribute?
Just to try to explain to that guy,
back when I was with the transit authority,
in 1980, two brothers are riding between train cars.
They both fell off.
The train is between 125th and 59th Street in Manhattan.
It's going 40 miles an hour.
They found no part of these two guys
bigger than their pinky, okay?
So you've got a plane going 600 miles into the ground
and you find nothing and you say that's a conspiracy?
Hello, if a train can make people
into ground hamburger meat,
what can an airplane do?
A hell lot more, okay?
Or maybe the government did that too.
Okay.
There's this bizarre notion, actually,
that only the United States government
is the only entity powerful enough
to do a lot of these things.
And it's almost patriotic in a way,
these conspiracy theories,
that nobody else could possibly cause death
but the United States government.
And-
That's right.
We've got a corner on the market, don't we?
And it's really weird, I find.
I mean, look, sure, it's possible
something else could have happened.
Maybe they did put explosives in the World Trade Center,
but does it really matter?
They did crash a plane into there.
That killed the people on the plane
and it probably messed up the building pretty good.
So I don't know where they're going
with all these crazy theories.
And I think it just obscures what's really going on.
I'm sure there's a coverup of some sort,
but we're never gonna get to it
because just like with UFOs,
only the Looney Tunes are the ones who get heard.
There's all sorts of things going on out there.
All right, sorry, that's a button to mine.
Let's take another phone call.
That was a good one though.
Good evening, you're on the air.
That's probably the most frightening thing I've ever heard.
You guys categorically denying the coverup
for the 9-11 stuff.
Okay, you know, show me evidence.
There's no evidence, all right?
I saw an airplane crash into a building.
I saw a building fall down, you know?
What other evidence do you need?
Evidence of planes circling the United States
for like an hour without F-16s being scrambled
or air traffic controllers being told
to shred their documents and destroy them
in separate garbage locations.
Okay.
Show me proof of that.
Yeah, I mean, what are you getting at?
I'm just saying that you guys bring up a lot of things
and this is one thing you're all in total agreement on.
It's kind of frightening.
Well, maybe we're part of the conspiracy then.
Good Lord.
You have to be to be in the media, don't you know?
I didn't get my conspiracy paycheck.
Good evening, you're on the air.
Hello. Yes, go ahead.
I'm calling in regards,
I had a story on earlier about the payroll.
Okay.
Ooh, I'm on delay.
You're on delay, yes.
I'm sorry, you'll have to turn on your radio.
It happened to three employees who work for CUNY.
UPS lost all of the tapes with our payroll
and we got a letter from the state controller's office.
We got a letter from our union office.
We got a letter from the place where we're actually employed
but they did find the tapes after three days.
Now, when you got these letters,
they told you specifically what they were talking about.
They didn't just say, well, something got stolen.
Yeah, now in the case of the Washington mutual letter,
it's just a van got stolen.
How would you like to have this for a year for free
and then pay for it afterwards?
No, they didn't offer us anything.
Yeah, so it sounds like you had a real case
and the one that I read before
is just, I think, part of a scam.
Okay.
All right.
And there is a cover-up for the Broadway event.
I don't know, let me make this clear.
I think there is a cover-up, for sure.
It's involved somehow, but I don't know how.
Yeah, I take exception to people
who see something in front of them and say,
no, there's something else going on there.
I mean, it's obvious that a plane crashed into a building.
It's obvious that that's what caused
the building to fall down.
But you know what?
If it didn't cause the building to fall down,
if they just put explosives up
and made that make the building fall down,
why have the plane crash into it?
Why not just blow up the building?
If a plane didn't crash into the Pentagon,
okay, then where's the plane?
They can't answer these questions.
And it's almost silly.
But the plane's the cover-up.
The plane's the cover-up.
Do you understand this stuff, Red Hat?
Please explain it to me.
Because every time I ask people these questions,
I never get a straight answer.
Okay, so they say a plane didn't crash into the Pentagon
because that's not what it looks like.
I say, let's get another plane,
crash it into the Pentagon,
and tell ourselves what it really looks like.
I'll bet it'll look pretty similar.
And if it doesn't, you know what?
I'll admit I'm wrong.
I'm not saying that this happened,
and I don't believe that it did.
But I mean, if they planted explosives
in the World Trade Center,
and they wanted to cover it up,
then they'd have to fly a plane into it
to say, well, that's what caused it.
That's all I'm saying.
I don't believe it for a second.
See, the thing is, we haven't done this before.
We haven't crashed planes into skyscrapers,
so we don't really know what's gonna happen.
It very well could have been designed
to fall just like that.
I don't know.
Let's try it again and see what happens.
But-
No, no, let's not.
The government has the competence to pull this off.
That's the other thing.
Have you ever known the government
to do anything competently?
And this is not something I think they could pull off.
Like, not quite like that.
I wouldn't know what the reason for it would be either.
Maybe someone will call in and tell me.
Yeah, all right.
No, I don't mind talking about this,
but let's not just jump to conclusions
and say, yeah, this is definitely what happened
because nobody really knows definitely what happened.
All right.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Go ahead.
Okay.
It's on your mind.
All right, one quick question for Bernie S
and then another question that's kind of technical.
You gotta make it fast.
Okay, Bernie, how's the lodging and the food over there
in Budapest?
Is it reasonably priced?
It's a little pricey,
but the hot springs are terrific.
Okay.
I recommend that alone.
What do we have?
What's that?
We have a loose change DVD.
Oh, this is the conspiracy thing.
Okay.
Apparently there's two editions.
No, no, no, wait a minute.
I'm not talking about a conspiracy.
No, no, someone just gave us a DVD in the studio.
I'm about to get off of the conspiracy thing.
Okay, we appreciate it.
All right, please.
All right.
Budapest is a very interesting Eastern European city.
I'm sorry, call it.
Go ahead, what?
All right, now, the other question is,
and it's technical.
Yes.
You have a station that's just below you
on frequency 91.1.
You mean 99.1?
99.1.
They're religious people, yeah.
Well, I don't know.
Not so much anymore.
But the deviation is incredible.
Absolutely incredible.
What are you saying?
They're interfering with us?
They are.
You're saying they're idiots.
You take a ride out 78 and from mile marker 36
to mile marker 32, all right?
I mean, you can't even receive WBAI
and you can see the Empire State Building.
And you're hearing all about the voice of God, I guess,
from the other people.
No, no, no, because they're on a different frequency.
All you're hearing is just the peak deviations.
This is not so much a compressor thing
that makes them loud.
They are the loudest,
because when I tune down to their station,
my radio goes into clipping,
because it's exceeding the ability of the power supply
to drive the other thing.
So they're overmodulating.
Yeah, that's what a lot of commercial stations do.
That's the term that I put on an AM band.
Well, it's frequency modulation,
but it's overmodulating in deviation.
You're saying it's exceeding 75 kilohertz.
Now, is there any way to measure this?
Yes, of course.
I mean, without breaking into their transmitter,
I mean, on the air.
No, the FCC can do this.
This is their job.
The FCC has a job,
and their job is to look at this stuff.
So we should, if anyone,
I think you should contact the FCC.
You want a conspiracy?
I think that the president administration
has told them to do this.
That's what I think.
Well, that's an interesting theory.
I guess there would be a hotline from Bush's office
to a religious station somewhere in Jersey.
I drive out on 78 every once in a while.
I'll check it out next time I'm out there.
Yeah, check it out.
You know, if there's interference issues,
we should be told about it.
And of course, we here at BAI
can also do the looking into it.
But thanks for bringing it to our attention.
We're gonna check into that
and see if we hear, you know,
signals that shouldn't be there.
Please let us know.
Again, our email address, oth at 2600.com.
Music means our time is up for this week,
but we'll be back again next week
with another edition of Off the Hook.
Please send us your email, your conspiracy theories,
your feedback of all sorts.
Oth at 2600.com.
Emmanual Goldstein for Off the Hook.
Have a good night.