weekend to celebrate on the shores of the Hudson River with music, dance,
storytelling, crafts, and so much more. It's Clearwater's Great Hudson River
Revival, a music and environmental festival. Hope to see you there.
It's Clearwater's music and environmental festival, here on WBAI.
Thank you, Voice of God, and it is WBAI New York you're listening to here on
this Wednesday evening. Time once again for Off the Hook. Really? I'm not kidding.
It's ringing, so I ripped it off the wall. I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bon Diddley Bon for the best, expect the worst. I hope that's understood.
Bon Diddley Bon!
Bon Diddley Bon!
And good evening to everybody. The program is Off the Hook. Manuel Goldstein here with you on this
Wednesday evening, the last show of May. And a special welcome to all of our
listeners returning to us after a two-week absence. And you know, every time
we do this, every time we go away, all our listeners seem to forget that we're
on. So I know it's going to be a little bit of a struggle to get everybody to
come back and call up, but by the end of this hour, hopefully you all will have
returned. Joining me tonight, over there on the far left of the room, is Jim. Hello.
And we have Redbird. Good evening. Arseny. Hello. Mike. Hi. And is that Red Hect I see?
I'm here, yes. And Bernie S. down there in Philadelphia. Hello from Philadelphia.
Well, it's been rather hectic last couple of weeks. Some of us went to
one place, some of us went to another. We'll get into details about that, but
first, some stories of things that have been going on in the world. Actually, this
is a familiar story. You guys hear about this, and this touches me
because it's where I went to school. But over at the State University at
Stony Brook, 90,000 names were compromised. Here's what the letter
that was sent out on May 7th to various people. I did not get one of these
myself, but 90,000 people apparently did. Dear recipient, isn't that a great way to
address people? It's very personalized, which is what I like. No, it
just conjures up the whole Stony Brook experience. If you ever go out to a state
university, that's what you're referred to, recipient. On April 24th, 2007,
Stony Brook University became aware that files containing personal information
were potentially visible on a Health Sciences Center library website. We
regret to inform you that your name, social security number, and university ID
number were included in these files. Upon discovery, the university took immediate
action. Now, I should point out, this was discovered on April 24th. The date of this
letter is May 7th, so that's immediate action there. And people didn't start
receiving these things until a couple of days ago, the actual letters in the mail.
So the university, that's their version of immediate action to remove the
information from the web server. I guess maybe they removed it from the web
server. They didn't tell very many people about it. It's a pretty useless action. It
is. At this point, we have no evidence that the information has been accessed
by any individual intending to misuse the data. I have heard reports of people
getting fraudulent charges on their credit cards. I'm not sure if that's
somehow related, how exactly it would be related, but it's definitely causing
panic. Anyway, as soon as the error was reported to the university, we contacted
the New York State Cybersecurity Office. There's a New York State Cybersecurity
Office. What does that do? I don't know. Where are these people? Who are they? Do
they wear helmets? What do they look like? I want to know. Who's in the
Cybersecurity Office of New York State? Can we look them up? Maybe. Did we try?
They should have a website. They're cyber secure, aren't they? It just sounds so
silly. It really does. I mean, do you know, back in the old days, they used to have a
New York State Department of Lunacy. I'm not kidding. That's what they used to
call mental health. They used to call it the Department of Lunacy. This is gonna
be looked back on the same way, I think. You're sure you're not referring to the
legislature? No. Very cynical of you, Mike, but no. Anyway, the Cybersecurity
Office, which in turn contacted Google on the university's behalf. Now, how does
Google get involved? It expedited the removal of the information from the
search engine within 24 hours. Because it caches everything. Yeah. The files were
never easily accessible through Google and information could only be retrieved
through the use of multiple criteria. This is like, this is so Pravda-ish, the
way that they refer to things. Only through the use of multiple criteria
could you get the data. So basically, you know, in human language, if you type in
a certain URL, you basically just get a list of like all these students and
their social security numbers. Not only students. Students, faculty, alumni, 90,000
people. That's a heck of a lot of people. I mean, they probably just have a
big database file sitting there and someone forgot to protect it. Well, the
fact that it's in some sort of, you know, directory that would be available on the
internet is bad enough, but someone probably just forgot to protect it or set
some setting. Why is this information even in their hands? Why do you need to
give a social security number to a university? I mean, you guys, you guys are
college people, just recently out. Some of you still in. Some of you hoping to get
in someday. Now, tell me, do you give your social security number to these
institutions? Redact, let's start with you, Redact. Well, yes or no?
Simple question, yes or no? Do you give it to them? Did you give them your social security number?
Yes. You did. And it used to be... No further question. No, can we, you know, you should
explain because it actually is required if you're receiving financial aid.
Financial aid, you have to give it to them. You don't have to give it to them,
you can give them other information instead. You can't receive financial aid
without it. To the university or to the people you're applying for financial aid
from? It is kind of the same thing. But it was even worse, I mean, I think it's
gotten better since I was at Columbia, but when I started going there,
your social security number was on your identification, your student
identification number. Right. So it was on your ID card, which was, the great thing
about it is, the year before I got there, the ID cards had not only your Columbia
ID number on it, on one strip, but then another strip for if you had a Citibank
account. Never worked though. Right. I remember this, two strips on the cards. So now they
might have your bank account number and your social security number if you lost
your card. That's right, they would, wouldn't they? Yeah. Interesting. Yes, Bernie. I have some input on this. The reason that you are required to give your social security number
to a higher education institution to qualify for any federal financial aid
is actually, was pushed by the Defense Department. The federal government
mandated this to acquire more precise identity information in case
there was a reinstatement of the draft. So they linked the
providing federal financial aid to providing your social security number.
And that's how we came up with this, that's how we came to the situation now.
But it's my understanding that nobody gets financial aid anymore. It's all been
taken away. So then, if you're not getting financial aid, then there's no reason for
you to ever give your social security number. Is that correct, at least? I don't
believe you're legally required to, although it may be an administrative
requirement of the institution. It's not just the universities though. The phone
company asks for your social security number. Credit card companies. They can't
do a credit check. No, they can. They don't need it. The only people who need
your social security numbers are your bank, perhaps, because they have to report
to the IRS. The credit card companies, I mean, they may demand it. They may say
we're not going to do this if you don't give it to us. But you're not legally
required to give it to anybody other than the IRS or a financial institution,
to the best of my understanding. Your employer you have to give it to. Who pays
you gives you a paycheck. But we're missing the fundamental problem here. The
fundamental problem is really that the social security number is only meant to
be a personal identifier. It's not supposed to be a secret piece of
information. It's not supposed to be used to remind you of your password. It's not
supposed to be used to be able to do all these other things. People assume that
nobody knows it just because it's a number. Most people
wouldn't remember that. It's a lot easier to remember a person's name. Well, I don't
want to talk about the financial part of the social security number, but that
communique is rather interesting. We all know Google is the 800-pound gorilla,
but are there not other web browsers that cache pages where one could still
find potentially the site with the social security numbers on it? And what's
to stop a smart hacker from designing a web browser of his own to look for
numbers of the form three digits, two digits, four digits, and when they find
them, save that entire page because that's the form social security numbers
come in. I'd be very interested in a smart hacker that did that. I just wanted
to say another thing. At Columbia, it used to be really bad because even when you
wanted to like go get a spare key, you'd have to put your number because that was
your student ID number. Eventually, I started, I was refusing to do it, and
eventually, I think they figured it out. They said, okay, just put a line through
that part, but it was, I mean, it was, there was, you know, copies of paper
everywhere with your name, your social security number. When I went to Stony Brook, we would
engage in a few projects that involved calling people sometimes and asking them
for personal information, and we found that if you ask them for their social
security number, these are people in dormitories, they would say, well, that's
something I'm not going to give out, but then you ask somebody else, can I have
your student ID number? It's the same thing. No problem. They just give it to
you because it's not your social security number. It's your student ID
number. Yeah, you know what? My health plan number is the same as my social
security number, so I can give you that, but I'm not going to give you my SSN.
It's so ludicrous. I think a lot of schools are migrating away from that.
Just a couple years ago, Stevens actually did, and now they use a campus-wide
identifier for most things, although when they ask you for your student
ID, most people don't know their campus-wide ID number because it's just
a random number, so they give them their social anyway. But isn't that just a
random number, too? It is. It's one that you know particularly well, though. I mean,
some people memorize their credit card numbers. Some people memorize their
driver's license numbers. It's one number better than another. If your
student ID number links to your social security number and all the other
information, then are you really gaining anything when that number gets leaked
out? No, you're not, and that's the problem. The real problem is that this
information is just stored around so anybody can access it, and then some
idiot leaves it open and everybody accesses it, and then you realize, oh my
God, all this information is out there. But that information is there no matter
what because we give it to them and people store it. And then you get to pay
for credit for checking services. Yeah, that's the other thing. Usually when this
happens, they say, okay, for the next year you can have a special credit
monitoring service, but Stony Brook didn't even give them that. They just
gave the phone numbers of the credit reporting agencies. So if I came
across a cache of social security numbers, I should wait a year and then
start opening credit cards? Apparently, yeah. That's what they
think. You'll lose interest or something like that. But they have a website if
you're concerned about this. Go to www.stonybrooke.edu. That's Stony Brook one
word, no E in Stony, slash disclosure. Now you may also contact our call center,
specially created to answer your questions. There's a toll-free number, and
you know what? We're going to give a call to this and see what we can learn. I
don't think they're open now, but let's find out if a person actually answers.
You should ask for the URL of the database file.
Thank you for calling Stony Brook University. How can I help you?
Oh, this is a human being?
Oh, great. Okay. I was just curious, what information do I have to give you to
find out what information got put out about me on the internet?
Well, first of all, it's not 100% that your information was exposed. Can I have
your first and last name?
Well, actually, not so fast, because I'm not sure that my information is even
there in the first place. I'd like to just know what I have to tell you to
find out. If I just gave you my first and last name, you could tell me right
then and there my information was leaked or not leaked?
No. What we do, we take your first and last name and your phone number, and
then it might be actually faster to contact you through email. So you can
leave an email address, and then we forward it to another department who
would be able to look at that information.
Okay. Now, if I was an alumni, am I still at risk, say, like 50 years? Well,
not that long ago, but maybe 30 years ago, 20 years ago, 10 years ago?
Possibly. Did you receive the letter?
I did not receive any letter. So should I wait for the letter?
Actually, you would have already received a letter saying that you were among
the people whose information could have been out there. If you just want to
double check, I can take a message and have somebody give you a call back.
I'm going to think about it for a little bit, and I can get back to you.
But thanks for being forthright.
Yeah, definitely.
All right. Take care. And that's what you get if you call that particular
number, which is, by the way, 1-866-645-5830. And a human being will
answer. I got to say, that's impressive that a human being answers.
It's like quarter past seven.
Quarter past seven. I think they're open until nine, actually. So that's not
bad. But they must be scrambling over there. So, okay, that's the latest as
far as the most recent credit thing.
Did you guys hear about Estonia? What happened in Estonia?
It's a country.
Yeah. But did you hear about what was going on over there with the, quote,
unquote, cyber warfare?
I heard that. Yeah, I heard there was something with the Russians.
The Russians. There was a Russian, a Soviet statue, a war memorial in
Estonia. And they were moving it from wherever it was to like a military
graveyard. And there was a lot of, you know, people, a lot of Russian
Estonians up in arms about this. And, you know, there were riots and things
like that. But besides there being riots in the streets, on the Internet,
somebody had hired botnets, rented out botnets, to do a distributed denial
of service attack on the country, on like major services, government
websites, major banks there. And they were literally like crippling the
country's Internet access. And they had people working to, you know, to
block all of the bad traffic. And, you know, things were just taken out
completely. And they're still having, you know, some of the banks are still
under attack now. But it's dropped off a lot as far as the amount of
bandwidth being used, because I guess they finished, you know, paying
whatever rented time on these botnets. But there was at one point, it was
like 90 megabits of traffic flowing into Estonia, just because of the
statue being moved.
Unbelievable. That's modern warfare, I guess, will be digital.
It's being labeled the first, like, cyber warfare attack.
But it's not, really.
On a country.
Remember when the whole spy plane incident happened in China, there was
all kinds of warfare, supposedly going back and forth between hackers in
one country and hackers in another. Even Tiananmen Square, there was a
bombardment of faxes, and I think even emails back then. But going on
right now, actually, in Venezuela, something similar, the opposition
TV station being taken off the air. Big mistake, I think. And now there's
all kinds of texting networks being set up and email chains and things
like that for people in the opposition. And I think they're going to
learn pretty quickly that people with access to these things can form a
pretty insurmountable obstacle.
What was amusing from the article I read is that they were saying some of
the traffic, right, came from computers inside the Russian government.
And so they were basically saying, oh, maybe the Russian government did
this. But if you think about it, botnet computers could be anywhere, you
know, if there's a vulnerable computer. So probably those computers were
just broken into and added to the botnet and having to send traffic to
Estonia.
Maybe. But if you didn't know what you were doing, you would do it from
your home computer.
Right. Right. Well, so where can we go to rent a botnet if we wanted?
Yeah. I mean, there are...
Let's say there's a government that we need to take down or a policy we
have to change. Not saying anything particular or pointing fingers to
anybody. But how would we do that?
I mean, I don't personally know where to go, but I know that they're
definitely available for rental.
OTH at 2600.com is our email address for anybody out there who does know.
But the thing is, it doesn't seem to have worked. I mean, the statue is
still wherever they moved it to.
Right. But they crippled, I mean, they had they crippled the services of
the country.
I heard they moved the statue back, actually.
You know, they...
No, I don't know.
I heard something happened to appease people.
I'm looking at this article by our dear friend John Markoff in the Times,
and it doesn't say anything about moving the statue back.
But I mean, you think because John Markoff said it didn't happen, that
means it didn't happen?
I'm just saying, you know, it's some evidence.
But I mean, you know, they had to filter.
Basically, they had to shut off access to the outside world from their
country. And so you have diplomats and people traveling who can't access
their bank or whatever they need, information they need.
Because, you know, with a DDoS attack, you don't know who's good and who's
bad. So you pretty much have to just shut it all off.
Well, as somebody who's worked in network administration, you must know
what a pain in the ass it is to get a denial of service attack like that.
Yeah, well, it's annoying.
Yeah. Mike, what do you have over there?
It looks like something of interest to you.
I have many things of interest to me.
OK.
Are you talking about this one?
I don't know.
Well, I'll talk about this one.
OK, talk about that one.
This is a secret document.
Oh, the secret document.
The secret document.
OK.
It says right here in the top in capital letters, SECRET.
So you know it's a secret.
But I got it from the website of the New York Times, so it must be not that
big a secret anymore.
OK, now this is interesting.
OK, go ahead.
Tell us what the secret document's all about.
It's dated 15th, July, 2004.
And it says, Hacker Activist Group, the Fifth Hope, holds convention in
Manhattan, semicolon.
Organizers detailed plans for direct action during RNC.
Now, that's funny because we ran a conference called the Fifth Hope right
about that time, July of 2004.
But I don't recall us being a hacker activist group named the Fifth Hope.
You think it might be a mistake and it's really about us?
Could be about us.
Why don't you go on and keep reading and see what they have to say.
The following information was reportedly discussed in the aforementioned
conference.
Police tactics.
Organizers outlined police tactics regarding protests and warn activists to
avoid entering any barricade protest pens set up by police.
In addition to the above, protesters were urged to monitor police for
formations to look for large groups of officers lined up staging areas, which,
quote, will usually be located a block or two away from some sort of arrest or
other police action.
Organizers suggested that police radio channels should be monitored and
specifically mentioned jamming police communications would not be a good idea
since knowing what they are doing is of more use to us.
So basically they're concerned because the people at our conference were
telling other people not to jam their communications and to listen to what
they were saying instead.
Apparently that's a big concern.
It is, yeah.
Specific RNC tactics.
A map of Manhattan was shown highlighting most of the hotels to be utilized by
the RNC delegations.
In addition to general disruption tactics utilized in the past, the
following were suggested.
And there's only one.
Well, we might have run out of time.
As many hotels have businesses inside them that will continue to function.
And as a result, protesters were urged to, quote, make appointments with hair
salons or dinner reservations at restaurants that operate inside the
hotels.
Do you remember during the WEP thing a few years ago?
We did that, myself and the person who gave that seminar, who is our layout
artist at 2600, Shapeshifter.
That's one of the little things that we did to get into the, what is it, the
Waldorf Astoria.
We made an appointment to get our eyebrows waxed or something.
And they had to let us in because we had the appointment.
So then we got behind all the police lines.
But we just looked.
And in fact, I took a picture, which got somebody in trouble because they said
I could.
But yeah, OK, we talked about that.
Big deal.
But apparently that is one of more than 600 pages of previously secretive
information that the NYPD did not want to release.
And look what I have now.
I've got a book.
And I want to drop this book on the board.
A giant binder is more accurate.
If I were to drop this on the table or anywhere near the border, it would
probably break something because it's so big.
But I just want to demonstrate how big it is.
What are you going to do?
I'll drop it on the floor.
No, I think if you drop it there, it might knock the phone off or something
like that.
I'll drop it on the floor.
All right.
This will give you an idea just how heavy this is.
Yeah, you see, that's a good sound.
Now, I picked the thing up and I found one loose leaf binder that could hold
all these pages.
I just want to go through a couple of highlights of the things that they
thought were of concern.
And if you've been listening to this show, you know that, of course, I got
swept up in the whole net during the Republican convention, standing on a
street and dragged into jail just because you happen to be standing on a
street.
Is that in there?
That's not in there.
No, they failed to mention that.
But what they did mention is that, let's see, what is of interest to them?
Current intelligence suggests that bicycles may be used during direct
action protests during the August 2004 Republican convention.
The proposed bicycles will be equipped with the following, aerosol chalk
painting devices, which enable mobile text graffiti capabilities at strategic
locations, chalk to be used as opposed to paint to avoid prosecution of
criminal mischief, wireless internet web cameras that enable live video
feeds via internet websites to monitor police response and action to report
on protest status.
And it also enables rapid communication via email.
And global positioning system enables real-time updates of bicycle slash
protester position.
Prototypes will allegedly be tested prior to August 2004 during select
protest demonstrations in New York City.
It is unknown at this time that what future demonstrations have been
selected.
An assessment of wireless hotspots, in quotes, in the area surrounding the
2004 RNC site will be conducted for mapping purposes.
It's just incredible.
All that on the bicycles?
Yeah, apparently they really fear the bicycles.
So now we know why they cracked down on them so much.
But this is something that I thought you'd really find interesting.
This landed on their radar.
An encryption workshop was being held at the Independent Media Center of New
York.
They give the address and the time, the date, everything.
Current intelligence indicates that the Independent Media Center of New York,
IMCNY, will host workshops regarding pretty good privacy, PGP, encryption,
and email security.
PGP encryption was created and written by Phil R. Zimmerman to ensure privacy
with regards to internet communication, enables the user to encrypt
communications and information stored in a computer hard drive to encode
information, allowing access only to persons in possession of a particular
decipher key.
This is the kind of thing that was keeping them up at night.
I'm assuming that this was a very public event, too, right?
Yeah, obviously.
It was advertised everywhere.
These are not things that were trying to be kept secret at all.
So this is their intelligence gathering at work.
This certainly is.
It certainly is.
Now, also, there are just some things here that are really kind of funny.
And I'll give out the URL so people can download this huge file themselves.
A disclaimer was displayed with a list of hotels reading as follows.
These hotels are not necessarily the way stations for Republican delegations
during the RNC.
That is just a rumor, and we'd like to put it to rest.
These hotels happen to have great scenery and fine service.
They have nothing whatsoever to do with Republican delegates staying during
the RNC.
That little notice apparently got their attention.
A list, an activist internet website, listed a bunch of hotels.
The Algonquin Hotel, Marriott Marquis, Millennium Hilton, and Hilton New York.
They listed four hotels, and that was enough to get them to be investigated.
And also, Madison Square Garden was listed on the website as a hotel.
So...
Real savants.
Yeah, it's simply unbelievable.
Here's this.
Did they tell you what types of people to look for?
Yeah, you know, actually they did.
Because I remember when I was working in the networking department at Columbia,
we got a letter from, I don't know if it was the FBI,
but basically detailing what to look for for terrorist groups.
And one of them was like, anyone with musical instruments
could be potential terrorists and things like that.
It was really interesting.
Well, okay.
I'm going to read you some things.
Because we were at like a communications hub or whatever.
Let me just talk about one other thing they were very concerned about,
and then I'll read you about some suspicious people that they were watching.
Portable traffic signal changing devices allegedly purchased illegally in the northeast.
Somewhere in the northeast.
Do they even work in this city?
Confidential sources indicate that approximately five
MIRT Mobile, M-I-R-T, Mobile Infrared Transmitters,
have recently been illegally purchased in the northeast United States.
At present, it is unknown if any of these devices were purchased by
or for activists slash activist groups for use in direct action protest.
MIRT Mobile Infrared Transmitters are portable electronic devices
that are capable of changing traffic signals within two to three seconds.
Approximate dimensions are seven by seven by two inches.
Approximate operating range of 150 to 1800 feet.
I thought those don't work in New York.
Potential uses of these devices, manipulation of traffic control devices,
and manipulation of subway signals.
And yes, you are right.
They don't work in New York City.
Because New York City has the most interesting traffic system,
I think, of any city in the world.
I'd love to know more about it.
But those little devices do not work on it.
I mean, usually, anyway, I mean,
some sort of emergency vehicle will just go through the red light.
They don't need it changed.
Yeah, that's the system we have here.
It's very advanced, this city.
Basically, okay, as far as suspicious people.
I think the MIRTs only work in, like, podunk towns in the Midwest.
I mean, I've seen them work.
I've seen them work.
In Philadelphia.
In Philadelphia.
Yeah, some of the smaller cities might use those.
But in our particular, if you ever drive down certain roads in our city,
if you go at a certain speed, you get all the lights.
That's just how it works.
And supposedly, it works going the other direction too,
but it's a little bit more advanced.
Crosstown, that is.
Okay, so to be suspicious basically really helps if you're Middle Eastern.
That's the one thing I learned from reading this.
You do anything and you're Middle Eastern, the NYPD files a report on you.
It's incredible.
This is one of the things that I learned by going through these 600 pages.
And by the way, this is part of our lawsuit against the city for arresting
1,000 people without any cause during the convention back in 2004.
There's many such lawsuits.
Many such lawsuits, but yeah, it's basically a big one.
A very big one.
Many big ones, actually.
At the Millennium Broadway Hotel on Saturday, the 21st of August,
members of the security staff reported the presence of possible activists
currently residing in the hotel under the following circumstances.
Two individuals temporarily resided in the hotel for an extended period in July.
Okay, that's suspicious.
I'll grant them that.
The same individuals returned to the hotel on August 1st, requested the same room
and have refused the daily services of the hotel's housekeeping staff.
And on August 15th, the hotel's housekeeping staff entered the room
because of foul food odors emanating from it.
And that pretty much got them on the map.
That's suspicious right there.
So what are they, newlyweds or something?
I don't know.
On Sunday, August 22nd, a male entered the Rainbow Room,
the host location for numerous RNC delegate events and asked an employee
if security would be increased due to the RNC.
Yeah, that got the cops called.
It's unbelievable.
Okay, yesterday at approximately 1900 hours,
a Middle Eastern male was observed videotaping Union Square Park.
Union Square Park, where so many people hang out.
If you're Middle Eastern and you videotape it, the cops will be called.
Unreal.
What else do we have here?
There's so many of these things.
I was up all night reading them.
This morning, the New York office of the Joint Terrorist Task Force
received information from a complaint that reported seeing two males
of possible Middle Eastern descent taking photographs of each other
while under the Verrazano Bridge on three successive days.
The complainant observed the subjects from the train station
located at 85th Street and New Utrecht Avenue in Brooklyn.
The subjects were described as follows, and that part was deleted.
Additionally, the complainant stated that he has yet to see
either one of these subjects board a train
and observe them using a cellular phone as trains pass by them.
Jim.
Is that all one incident?
No, these are different incidents.
This one I just read is one incident.
Wait a minute.
I'm familiar with that train station.
I'm familiar with the site underneath the Verrazano Bridge.
You want the number for the Joint Terrorist?
They are miles apart.
There is no way that they can be linked.
You're saying there's no way the complainant could have observed
the subjects from the train station located at 85th Street and New Utrecht Avenue
taking pictures of themselves being all Middle Eastern
underneath the Verrazano Bridge.
There's no way they could have seen that.
That's your testimony.
It's at least two miles to the Verrazano Bridge.
What if he had binoculars or a telescope or something?
There are buildings in the way.
You can't see underneath the bridge.
You can see the roadway.
You can see the towers, but you can't see the walkway
or the shore or the bike path under the bridge.
Did you get this document in electronic format and print it, or did you get it?
Did you try highlighting the black areas to see if they actually did a good job?
They're on to that.
They redacted with confidence then.
Yeah, so far.
Hopefully there's a version out there.
Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
Emmanuel, they were being all possibly Middle Eastern.
Possibly Middle Eastern, yes.
No, you said being all Middle Eastern.
Correction, being all possibly Middle Eastern.
I'm sorry.
Yes, you're right.
Allegedly Middle Eastern, allegedly.
Allegedly possibly Middle Eastern.
In this particular case, this next one at the Millennium Hilton,
early this morning at approximately 0150 hours,
a Middle Eastern male, and this is not positive, he was a Middle Eastern male,
was stopped and questioned for loitering in a bathroom at the hotel.
The subject was properly identified and subsequently released.
Now, what does properly identified mean?
A Middle Eastern.
He was trying to meet someone in a way that we won't mention.
This is not a Middle Eastern case.
This is unknown individuals slash individuals in a maroon Ford Explorer with Florida registration.
I have the tag number here, but I won't read it.
We're seen photographing a Con Ed facility tank farm
located at 1-11 Hudson Avenue in Brooklyn on August 25th.
So now you know where it is.
And if you take a picture of that,
and if you want to really ensure you get questioned, be Middle Eastern and do that.
And yeah, apparently that's something you're not supposed to take pictures of either.
Earlier today, a Middle Eastern male riding a BMX bicycle was observed
videotaping the area surrounding Madison Square Garden and speaking to a news reporter.
Oh, my God.
A news reporter?
Like from the press?
Can you believe that?
They come into our country, they take pictures of our things, and they talk to our people.
Oh, wow.
I guess we need to expand these bureaus that are watching this.
Okay.
At 1030 hours, security personnel from the McGraw Hill building located at 1221 6th Avenue
reported that two males of Middle Eastern descent
were stopped and questioned after filming the building.
Maybe they were really interested in textbooks.
Yeah, maybe.
It just goes on like this.
There is just so many instances of Middle Eastern people being stopped and questioned
for things that you just would not think are at all questionable.
So, okay.
So if you want to see this, go to this URL.
It's called iwitnessvideo.info.
That's spelled I-W-I-T-N-E-S-S video.info slash files slash intelligencedocuments.pdf.
And the I and the D are capitalized in intelligence documents.
Wait, is that I like the letter?
No, it's, yeah, I as in the letter for intelligence and eyewitness also the letter.
So, yes.
Okay.
It's pretty shocking.
And of course, there's all sorts of information in here about various other things that have
been going on as well during that period of time.
But let me just put this back on the floor.
And that's it for that particular bit of information.
Give me that back.
I need that.
Okay.
Do we have any announcements of things coming up?
I believe, Bernie, you have.
Yeah, you have something, Bernie.
Yes, this really is a very good and important announcement about the Vintage Computer Festival.
4.0 was going to be held June 9th and 10th in Wall, New Jersey.
This is really an incredible event.
I went to it last year.
It's got a lot of demonstrations that people really put a labor of love into showing how
older computers work, going back from the 50s and 60s and 70s.
And at the Vintage Computer Festival 4.0, June 9th and 10th, people will be celebrating
Commodore Computers' 30th anniversary.
Some of the original Commodore engineers will be there, including Chuck Peddle, who's the
designer of the 6502 microprocessor.
That'd be really interesting to meet that guy and ask him about his operands that you
always had questions about.
Why did they do it that way?
So, anyhow, you can go to vintage.org to get information about this event.
I went to it last year.
It was fantastic.
A lot of really interesting people there, and luminaries and historians and fantastic
exhibits.
It's worth attending, and it's only about an hour from New York City.
Now, what's this setup like?
It's inside a big room or something?
Well, it's at the InfoAge Learning Center.
It's sort of a multi-purpose center.
It's actually a kind of nice location.
It's sort of along the water.
There's trees and grass.
It's a beautiful facility.
Is it outside?
No, the exhibits are inside, but it's really nice.
So if it's raining, go anyway.
Yeah, because vintage computers don't like rain, but if they're inside, that's fine.
No, no, no.
You'll find, like last year, there was a PDP-8 computer set up.
And these things are powered up and running?
Powered up and running.
This guy loved an entire PDP-8 system with the real tape deck and the teletype machine,
and it was amazing.
Wow.
You could play Tic-Tac-Toe on a fully functioning PDP-8 that some guy dragged hundreds of miles
to set up for a demo at the Vintage Computer Festival, and a lot of other amazing vintage
computers.
It's really worth attending.
It's a mile from New York.
Go to vintage.org and check this thing out, and go on June 9th and 10th.
Do you know if there's any internet access at this thing?
Can any of these computers connect to the internet?
I'm just curious.
That's a good question.
I'd like to know.
We'll have to go and find out.
Can you connect the Commodore 64 to the internet?
Yes, people have done this.
Actually, people have set up web servers with a Commodore 64.
Well, more power to them.
They'll probably need more power.
Okay, here's a letter that we got from somebody that was kind of outraged, as we are all the
time.
First off, I love your show.
I believe I've been reading your magazine since I can remember, which is probably good.
I have a huge stack of them.
And now with my iPod, I wait anxiously every week to hear both of your radio programs.
I was reading 2600.com and saw the post about the post office losing your shipment.
Well, they found it eventually, and it took a little world voyage, but eventually wound
up where it was supposed to go.
This is very common with the USPS.
I live in a suburb of Chicago.
I needed to send a collections letter to one of my clients whose location was under 15
miles away.
To make sure the letter arrived and that I had a receipt, I sent the number 10 envelope,
first class, registered mail, restricted delivery.
Only one person could sign for it, and return receipt.
The total cost to send this envelope was over $18.
The letter never arrived.
I started inquiring one week after mailing.
Three months later, in countless attempts inquiring where the letter went, I got a call
from the postmaster of my local post office.
The woman told me they had decided that the letter was unrecoverable, and the USPS would
no longer look for or take my request to locate the letter.
I asked her if I'd be given a refund for the letter mailed.
Since the letter did not arrive, the postmaster told me the USPS does not guarantee any letter
slash package will be delivered and would not be held responsible for any lost items.
I explained that I did not care about the contents of the letter.
I was able to print the letter again and send it FedEx.
What I was interested in was a refund for monies spent for services that were not rendered.
She explained that the services were rendered when the letter was accepted by the postal
worker.
Oh, what?
How do I get involved in a scam like this?
Seriously, you hand something, an item to somebody, and you pay for something to be
done to it, and that's the service right there.
The USPS would take no responsibility for items lost as such a refund is not an order.
The only service that they offer was to accept the letter for mailing.
And now that the post office is raising their rates once again for a service that they may
or may not provide, it really makes this whole thing even more painful.
I'm also listening to your May 15th show as I write this, and you're speaking about the
US Post Office and how messed up the new rate system for publications will be, how
ironic.
I'd strongly recommend that the readers of 2600 stop using the USPS for anything that
is important.
FedEx is a little more expensive, but at least they guarantee delivery.
Thanks, Brian, for that letter.
I've got to tell you, I've heard so many complaints like this, and with what's happening
with the periodical rate starting in July, which we still don't know exactly how that's
going to affect periodicals.
I've heard all sorts of horrible predictions about how the big periodicals like Time Magazine
will have their costs go down, and small publications like us will have our costs
go up 50% or more.
It's simply incredible.
But on top of that, just to have this kind of service where they lose things, they take
no responsibility, you really have to start looking at alternatives.
I have to say that for 41 cents, the post office will take a letter anywhere in the
country.
That's a pretty good deal.
Well, that's what they keep saying, and that's how they usually do it.
I mean, it's not like they lose every other piece of mail.
But if you pay them to make sure something gets there, and they just lose it, don't you
think that's wrong?
Well, their expensive services are a ripoff, but their cheap services, 41 cents is a pretty
good price.
If it actually works, yeah.
It's nice.
But Brian, I think you had a couple of instances with the post office, did you not?
Yeah, a few years ago, I unmailed Express Mail, which contrary to postal service claims,
is guaranteed delivery to a three-day, overnight delivery or two-day delivery, depending on
where in the country it's from.
Express Mail was a wedding gift to a family member, and I sent it from where I was traveling
from, and it got there four days after it was supposed to get there.
They were, the honeymoon was practically over by then, so they didn't get it in time.
And so I asked for a refund, and the post office just turned me around for weeks on
this.
And they said I had to really file my claim from the post office where I actually mailed
the Express Mail envelope from, which was like hundreds of miles away from where I live.
So it's a scam, just like you pointed out.
And you can't trust them.
And if you really want better service, you should go to FedEx or maybe not UPS, I don't
know.
But the post office is not reliable for that kind of stuff.
Well, the other thing is, are you allowed to send letters via FedEx?
I mean, Mike, you pointed out that 41 cents gets you a lot, but it's a monopoly, is it
not?
I don't think you're legally allowed to send mail from one mailbox to another, and
maybe that's why it doesn't cost so little for them.
I mean, I've sent letters by FedEx.
I don't know.
FedEx doesn't deliver to a mailbox.
And that's the other crazy thing.
FedEx has boxes at post offices, yet you can't send something to a post office box via FedEx.
What boxes do they have?
They have like the drop boxes.
Oh, I understand.
Yeah, at post offices.
Are there special locks they have?
Yeah, special simplex locks.
Yeah, we won't get into that.
That's a whole other issue.
Okay, here's a letter mailed to OTH at 2600.com.
During the January 2007 fundraiser, I pledged to WBAI during your show.
The $75 premium included a universal USB charger.
I have a number of USB devices that I hope to be able to recharge under the umbrella
of a single charger.
I pledged $100, which included $75 for the membership and premium and $25 on top of that
because I thought it was good for the show and station.
At this time, I've received my t-shirt but not the USB charger.
Is there a time frame?
Thanks, Perry.
Thanks so much for your contribution and for writing.
And yes, you should have received it by now.
And if you have not, please write to us with details.
Those particular items were donated by Make Magazine and they were sent to the station,
so they should have been sent out.
Sometimes we get caught up in things here and they don't go out in a timely manner.
But certainly, you should have gotten it by now.
And if anyone out there has not gotten things that they pledged for,
certainly for the January fundraiser, we need to know about that.
And the May fundraiser, soon enough.
In a couple of months, if you don't receive things then, let us know.
OK.
Here's someone who wrote in.
This is fascinating.
All the talk on the fundraiser about old phones and the noises that are no longer heard.
We had that interview with Joy Bubbles, High Rise Joe,
where we played all sorts of old sounds from old telephone networks.
This reader, listener thought they'd take the time to contribute a few things
that are thought to have disappeared into the depths of history.
They gave us some phone numbers here.
We're going to actually call a couple of these phone numbers.
Let's see.
All right.
And you're going to hear something very interesting.
First, I have to enter our special code.
We're sorry.
The number you have dialed, 36...
OK.
The rest of that isn't important.
But what you heard before that is very interesting.
Those are MF tones.
That is, according to this reader, an old automated intercept system, AIS,
that has not only a strange voice,
the multi-frequency tones you hear preceding the recording are really loud.
They're louder than the recording itself, in fact.
Now, I'm not sure.
It wasn't very clear from the letter if this is actually part of the call processing going
through or if this is something that is recorded as part of this recording.
But I find it pretty fascinating.
It's in area code 540, which I believe is Virginia, I think.
This next one is in area code 419.
And once again, I have to enter the special code.
The number you have reached, 646-2368, is not in service.
If you feel you have reached this recording in error, please check the number and dial again.
Thank you.
I always love that recording.
If you feel you have reached this recording in error, please dial again.
That was definitely not part of the recording,
because you heard a distinct background hiss when the recording was played.
Well, that was area code 419.
I think that's...
I don't know where that is, to be honest.
Any idea, Bernie, where 419 is?
Probably should call Mike Uhaas on that one.
Okay, I'll call after the show.
Here's one more.
And this is from listener Thoughtfreaker, who sent us all these numbers.
And it's just reassuring to know they're out there.
Let's call this number now.
And what this one does, most definitely something you don't hear every day.
This is a Stromberg-Carlson XY switch, owned by a private collector.
Oh, this one's good.
Okay, that's a dial tone.
Now, I'm going to dial 682, and that's going to cut me into a Kellogg step switch.
You hear it dialing?
You hear it dialing?
Okay, now I guess I can dial a number.
Let me dial a nine.
Wow.
When's the last time you heard that sound?
That is a step reorder, is what that's known as.
I think I was like 14 last time I heard anything like that.
Actually, I want to call it again.
I called this earlier, but you have to wait a couple of minutes,
because you'll get a busy signal.
Even busy signals are rare things these days.
When's the last time you got a busy signal calling somebody?
Does anybody remember?
Has anyone ever heard a busy signal?
Would you like me to demonstrate what a busy signal is?
You ever wonder, you watch the show 24, everybody's calling back and forth.
The whole thing could be stopped if you got one busy signal.
Everyone always gets through to each other.
But no one ever gets a busy.
Everyone has call waiting or multiple lines.
Okay, we're going to call that in a second.
But here's another letter from somebody else named Jay.
I was listening to the most recent Off the Hook broadcast via my nice RSS feed
and was curious as to the low quality of the broadcast I was listening to.
It was a playback of a very old show.
And then the fact that Off the Hook might be cancelled.
Very lousy trick there, Emmanuel.
Very lousy trick.
And again, yes, it was a lousy trick.
It was us showing you the power of the archives.
And the power of the archives really kind of reached all over the place.
There are people at the radio station here that thought that we were cancelled as well.
I saw a posting about it someplace else.
And apparently, there's a campaign to save the program getting started.
But no, you don't need to do that unless you need to save the quality or something.
We are not cancelled.
Or unless you know something we don't.
Yeah, you might know something that might be a show of the future that we haven't had yet.
But that was from 1992.
And as you can hear, it turned out rather happily.
Okay, I think enough time has passed where I can call that number again.
That's in the 217 area code, by the way.
And now we're going to, after we enter the secret code,
go into an automatic electric step switch by dialing 375.
Okay, there's the dial tone.
Hear it rotary pulsing.
Okay, now I believe I'm in the automatic electric step switch.
I'm going to dial zero this time.
Wow, that is a ring.
I wonder if I'm ringing the guy in his house.
I probably am.
So maybe I'll hang up after this next one.
I gotta tell you, I miss that noise.
I miss that sound.
Every ring used to sound different.
And now it all sounds the same.
It's just, it's so depressing because it used to be so interesting to make phone calls.
Are you going to announce those numbers?
Well, I sort of did because I dialed them with the touchtone.
I figured the people who are really into it will be able to decode the touchtone.
I'm not sure if the numbers should be given out, read over the air,
because they are possibly private numbers.
So those who are really interested, they can pursue it.
I was going to say, you know, ringtones don't always sound the same
because now can't you buy ringtones that are music and things like that?
Well, those are the silly kind, yeah.
But when you call, I mean, you could, I had friends who could say that
this phone call is being routed through Florida
because they could hear a particular noise.
And of course, it's all digital now.
It all sounds exactly the same.
Okay, we'll be taking phone calls at our digital switch, 212-209-2900.
So please give us a call.
Are you sure that thing's digital?
It certainly doesn't work that well.
The phone certainly isn't, but I think the ringtone you hear will be.
Now, this is kind of interesting.
I called a singular 800 number this afternoon.
They demanded the number for the phone.
They're kind of hostile there, aren't they?
They demanded the number for the phone I was calling about.
So I gave them a friend's number who, unbeknownst to me,
was actually a singular customer.
They then directed me to a menu where I could pay, quote,
my bill, unquote, or check the account balance on the account
that the phone number was tied to.
Surely, I thought to myself, they'll demand some kind of verification
that I am the legitimate owner of this account.
And they did.
They asked for the zip code of the billing address for the account in question.
After I provided my friend's zip code, they gave me information
on the last time he paid his bill, how much he paid for that bill,
his current account balance, and when the next payment was due.
I'm glad I'm not a singular customer, signed Delta Lima.
You know, we read this story 15 years ago.
I think MCI was the guilty party in that case.
Mike, you have some information about singular
and ways that customers can be empowered.
Yeah, I am a singular customer, actually.
And I am planning to be traveling this summer.
I'm going to the CCC conference that all of our listeners should go to, too.
And I wanted to unlock my phone so that I could use a SIM chip, not from singular.
And my previous experience is that they either won't do it,
or they'll charge you a lot of money.
But apparently, they've changed their policy.
Because now, if you just call them up, and their number is 916-843-4685.
That's the International Customer Care number.
If you call them up and give them your phone's serial number,
the IMEI number, and your phone number.
And apparently, if you've been a customer for any length of time at all,
they will give you the unlock code and let you unlock your phone.
That sounds pretty easy.
So you just unlock your phone, and then you can put any other SIM in your phone.
Yeah.
But don't they want to charge you for their roaming service in Europe, in general?
I guess they would rather do that.
But they didn't stop me from finding a way around it.
Was there any resistance at all to your inquiries of wanting that?
No, they were very friendly.
And how long was the code they gave you?
It was eight digits, I think.
And then you have to know how to enter it into your phone?
Well, on my particular model of phone, if you put any other SIM card in,
it just says, hey, I need a password.
Right.
So.
All right.
Good information.
And hopefully, some people will take advantage of that.
Used to be, though, that phones, by default, were unlocked.
You'd get a phone, and you could just put any SIM in it.
You didn't have to go through this little free resource.
I mean, if you buy a phone retail, not through a phone company, it'll be unlocked.
It'll cost a lot, though.
All right.
Let's take some phone calls.
212-209-2900.
Good evening.
You're on Off The Hook.
Hello, Emmanuel.
How are you doing?
I had a couple of questions.
Go ahead.
A few months ago, on your website, it said that on one of the Off The Hook MP3s,
there was malicious code put in.
Was that just a joke or not?
Malicious code put in.
I'm not recollecting what you're referring to.
On one of the Off The Hook shows.
Was the date of this posting, by any chance, April 1st?
Yeah, it was near that.
Yeah.
I think you might want to look into that particular date and never believe anything you hear on
April 1st.
That's all I can say, legally, about that.
But thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Good evening.
You're on Off The Hook.
Oh, dear.
You've got to be patient.
Good evening.
You're on Off The Hook.
Speak up, please.
Hello.
Yes, go ahead.
Hi, I'm just calling to ask a question about this program.
You're on the air.
Oh, hi.
I wanted to find out.
I'm trying to set up a professional website and wanted to find out where I could get this
done and how it runs about, you know, who runs the website.
First of all, where I could get it for a reasonable amount of price.
I'm getting quotations.
I think this is more of a personal computer question.
Would you agree, Mike?
Yeah, sure.
So if you call again in maybe about 15, 20 minutes, they might be able to answer you
better.
I mean, we have theories and ideas.
We're not really here to advertise services.
Yeah, and we don't do that either.
But they might be able to point you in the right direction.
Best of luck with that.
I mean, the short answer is that a lot of people will do it.
And you're on the air.
Good evening.
Good evening.
I just heard Emmanuel and his brother there talking about the SIM card and unlocking the
phones.
Right.
The European Union just passed new legislation on all our cellular service across all Europe,
the whole union.
They knocked the fares, the Roman charges down by half, and you pay the same thing any
country you go to.
Really?
Well, that must be very good news for people who live over there, because that was always
the number one complaint I would hear.
People traveling from the Netherlands to Germany, they'd have to pay this huge roaming charge.
So you're saying that that's been reduced.
You guys travel all over the world.
We try.
So I even heard Emmanuel talking from North Korea, I think, right?
Yeah.
And I think of their Roman charges.
Yeah, well, of course, there are no phones there that I could use.
But if I had a phone over there I could use, I'm sure the roaming charges would have been
significant.
Okay, the European Parliament finally did something useful.
Well, I guess that's open to debate.
But thanks for the information.
It's good news.
It's always good news when the phone rates go down.
And good evening.
You're on the air.
Hi.
Hi, how you doing?
Good.
I'm just wondering, is this off the hook?
This is off the hook.
You're on the air.
Hey, I'm just trying to find out if ringback numbers still work and if you know what the
ringback number is for New York City.
Well, it used to be 660 and then followed that by the last either seven digits or sometimes
10 digits of the phone number, meaning the whole phone number.
Then you'd flash the switch hook or something and the phone would usually ring back.
But that was a long time ago.
I don't know if they even still do ringbacks.
Does anyone play with those?
In North Jersey, it's usually 550 in most places.
And here 550 is a premium call service.
If you dial that, you're going to pay a lot of money.
So yeah, you got to look into these things.
But 660 is definitely the one throughout the whole metropolitan area back in the day.
Whenever the day was.
OK, thanks.
Thanks.
Thanks for calling.
All these questions can probably be answered by Google as well.
Google knows everything.
That's true.
And knows everyone.
Yes, you're on the air.
Go ahead.
Hey, you were attacking Hugo Chavez before.
I'm tired of hearing right wing crap on BAI.
OK, well, then go look in a mirror.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
So I'm accused of being a right wing and being told to go back to Cuba.
Well, that guy hasn't called yet.
Nobody's here on that line.
Let's go over here.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
All right.
And let's take this one here.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
Speak up, please.
Yes, that's us.
You're on the air.
Oh, OK.
What's on your mind?
OK, you know, we got to move faster than I'm sorry.
Good evening.
You're on the air.
If you never called a call in show before, it does get confusing,
especially if you have your phone next to your radio.
Oh, boy.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Hey, the ringback number for New York is one, one, three.
Well, and the last four digits of the number.
Is it really?
Well, that's that's somewhat new.
One, one, three.
OK.
Is that for every phone or just certain pay phones?
No, no.
It's every phone.
And it works in eastern New Jersey as well.
And also 7-Eleven prepaid cell phones.
They're unlocked GSM phones.
And that's what I was going to say.
OK.
And a single voicemail can be reset with the menu,
with the person's Boeing code for verification.
All right.
Thanks for the information.
You've made Red Hat very happy.
And and good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Hi, this is off the hook.
You're on the air.
Hi.
Sorry about before I kind of got disconnected.
I just wanted to say that speaking of phone news,
I recently heard that Mexico is expanding ability to
attempt phone calls for money from the United States government.
They're doing what?
They're they're the United States government is lending to Mexico
to set up a similar service that we have in U.S. wiretapping.
OK.
Where they'll be able to tap lines much easier, as well as email.
And the president's also wanting to put in a
a plan that you could bypass a judge when you want to go wiretapping
instead of having a judge approval first.
And I just wanted to know what your opinion was that.
Well, it's it sounds like back in the day when the U.S. was trying to get
Russians to ban encryption so we could see how that would take over there.
It's the same basic thing.
Bad legislation that that that violates people's privacy.
It works in all countries to the advantage of the people who want to do it.
Are you saying the U.S. government is lending money to Mexico to set this up?
I'm not saying that they wanted to set it up.
I was just very interested in this because it's
sort of like a domino effect with these countries.
Yeah, well, it might be a lot easier to to set something like that up
in Mexico and have it work without a lot of core challenges.
Who knows?
We don't really have time to go into it, though.
I mean, I was just thinking that maybe the political motivation behind that
might be because of the whole drug trade coming from Mexico.
And so having wiretapping capabilities down there might.
It's fodder for another show.
We're out of time, though.
Friday meeting.
Yes.
See you at the meeting on Friday.
See you next week here on the radio station.
Good night.
But why should I care about all that today?
I need a head start and I don't want to stall.
Gonna take the bulldozer to break down the walls.
And I never want to see another shopping mall.
Oh, free to be what I will.
Oh, free.
I'll keep it up till I'm free or I won't have nothing at all.
Once we get out of the 80s, the 90s are going to make the 60s look like the 50s.
Yeah.
Oh, free to be what I will.
Oh, free.
I'll keep it up till I'm free or I won't have nothing at all.
Oh, free to be what I will.
Oh, free.
I'll keep it up till I'm free or I won't have nothing at all.
Wow.
I haven't had a rush like that since the Berkeley riots.
Hey, WBAI.
Hey, Kat.
Hey, you're listening to WBAI New York 99.5 FM.