The indigenous leaders at the conference said that Europe has a historical debt owned to
Latin America and the relationship between both continents will only get worse with the
approval of new commercial agreements.
For Free Speech Radio News, I'm Pamela Cueva with Alfredo Cuadros.
You've been listening to Free Speech Radio News.
From Pacifica Station KPFK in L.A., I'm Aura Bogado.
And you're listening to Radio Station WBAI New York where it's seven o'clock.
Time for Off the Hook.
Really, it's time for Off the Hook.
And for the CD player not to work as usual, here we go.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
Bon Diddley Bon for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood.
Bon Diddley Bon!
Bon Diddley Bon!
Bon Diddley Bon!
And getting to where the program is, Off the Hook.
May it be able to be here with you.
As the theme stumbles to the end
the CD player that doesn't like CDs
We've got a full studio tonight with all kinds of special guests popping in and
Regular cast members as well. Let's start on the other side of the room. It's not Kevin. Hello, and I
Don't know you want to do it or what? Yeah, no go for it. Okay Redbird is changing his name. I'm not changing my name
I'm using I'm using the real go ahead go ahead get rid of the get rid of the name Redbird
Which we've come to know and love you as and replace it with something even better
What would you like to be called from now on?
You know, I'm just gonna say good evening and allow you to decide when
You have to have a name there or we're gonna make one up for you and it won't be as nice as Redbird
Okay, let's stick with Redbird then. I
Can't believe you're giving me this look like I can't believe you made me do this right before the show tearfully
Like I can't be Redbird anymore. People are mocking me on the street. And and and now I have to back up and pretend
Okay, fine. You're Redbird. You're Redbird forever. All right
Hi, Mike. Hi. Aren't you glad you don't have a handle? Yeah, it's pretty nice
It is Mitch Altman it is right in the studio with you Wow, where'd you just come from? I just came from Philly
I did a workshop on brain machines at the hacktory a new hacker space over there the hacktory in Philadelphia
Yeah, it's a really nice space
they got it going really fast and it's a non-profit gave them some space and they've been doing a lot of cool stuff over there and
Next we're moving further and further away from the microphone next to you is Phil from make magazine. Hey, thanks for having me
How you doing? Great. What have you been up to?
You just got back from the Maker Faire and what you have like a million people there
Yeah, we had all six billion people on planet Earth. It was back now about 60,000 people clogged up the highway 60,000 people
Yeah, so it's bigger than Burning Man now great Christ. How did you do that?
I mean and how can we do that for hope, you know, I think the the secret is just
finding a good place and a good time for people to share what they're building and
From what I understand about what's going on at hope. I think you might be lucky
You may have 60,000 people you may have a bigger problem that you think yeah, you know, we can't handle 60,000 people
I think you were outside, right? Yeah, we were outside and even we couldn't even handle 60,000. So I mean, that's a stadium
That's more than the Mets get ever. Yeah, so
Wow, okay, that's congratulations. How many do you have for Austin?
Austin was 20,000 and it seems like each one that we do doubles. So the first year at Maker Faire was 20,000
Well, that's triple. It was 40,000 in San Francisco. Yeah. Yeah, so there seems to be
Some type of math formula you can at this rate in a few years
The cities will be depleted for people when because they're going to the Maker Faire. Yeah, that's fine
But you know 20,000 people at Maker Faire did not seem as dense as 2,500 people at Hope so it's well
That's because like I said, we're inside right and we have walls and they're outside and they can just keep expanding into the countryside
No, that's very fun events. Yeah, but we won't have 60,000 people
I'm pretty sure I can say that because I think the fire marshal would be livid if we did
But we can have a few thousand anyway, and that's really up to the folks out there
We have all kinds of interesting things going on for the hope conference coming up in July
In fact, we're gonna be talking about one of them today just one of them
Well, maybe a few but there are so many so many cool things that are gonna be going on
But this is historic in nature, but I'm not finished introducing people yet. Is there anybody else hiding?
Okay, we got everybody in the room down in Philadelphia is Bernie s
Greetings from Philadelphia. I'm sorry. I burn I forgot about that lexicon because you're on the other side of the room and I started with
not Kevin
Hello. Okay. Now we got everybody right? No, we didn't get it right. We have another guest. I'm sorry. I'm all mixed up today
We have a Darvin joining us. Hi, how you doing?
So, yeah, we've got a full cast of characters and Bernie, you know
You still have that lousy phone that echoes when we talk
Spring-phone I have unfortunately, it's far worse than the ten-year-old one. I had yeah, we're gonna have to have a discussion about that. So
You know, we got a memorandum saying that people cannot be on phone lines hosts of programs cannot be on phone lines
So, I don't know if Bernie
Counts as a host or what exactly but we might have to be careful. We got a memo saying we can't have host on the
Phone line. Yes said no pots lines
And I'm impressed that there's not a pots line. This is a cell phone. Yeah, but I'm just plain old telephone service
That means landline. So you're saying that the pots the antipods edict does not prohibit cell phones
I would think a pots line would be better than what we have now. Well, they were encouraging you to use is DN or come in
person
What the memo said as I recall is
Pots, by the way for our listeners, you know, it's an acronym for plain old telephone system. Didn't I just say that?
Rego, I didn't hear you say that probably your phone is horrible. You don't even hear what I'm saying
okay, go ahead, but the but the other note in that memo was that the
Noise on the long-distance circuits is almost unbearable with pots lines
Well, that might be true in the 1960s and 70s exactly I haven't heard background noise in a long-distance line for decades
So, I don't know what what?
Well, I remember that I remember years ago when you would make a long-distance called first of all
We go over a mechanical switch. You'd hear the click of the relays and then after that you would hear
It's kind of this this hollow sound this sort of
Sound of air as the long-distance circuit was connected to and sometimes it would get even noisier as a distance
I miss those days. I do too. It was beautiful sound
It was and it took a long time to make a phone call. But when you did get connected, it sounded so much better
Well, well those those days are never coming back
But we have new days coming up and all sorts of other fun things to discuss
Oh, and I should also point out. This is the second week of our fundraiser
We want to thank everybody who called in last week and propelled us well over the 2000 mark, which is great for an hour
And guess what? We need to do it again
And if you if you know that you want to call in this is as good a time as any because we'll just give out the phone
Number we have the same premiums as last week. The phone number is 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 and
What we're offering Mike you want to run down that we're offering now. I have to remember. Yeah
Well, you know anyone who pledges $25 or more always gets the the off-the-hook t-shirt, which no one no one here is wearing
But it's it's a great way to give back to the community
No one no one here is wearing
but it's it's black and it's it's quite lovely if you pledge $50 you will in addition get the
2600 sweatshirt, which not Kevin is is modeling for us right now. So all you people
Who are in the studio can can see it and maybe he can describe it for us
Well as I described last time it is gray and it has red lettering across the front
2600 and on the back and also red lettering football player font says the word hacker
And it looks you look quite fetching fed in it
and
so you can call 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 and pledge $50 and you will
Also look fetching in such a sweatshirt. You just say fetching. I said it twice. Yes
We're trying to get headphones to work in the studio. So I
Oh
Where you going with the English language there, but that's uh, he does look fetching. No, there's no question about it
Would I lie is it a sweatshirt though? Is that what's doing it? I think it is
All right, because normally, you know, it's also scientifically proven to make you 10% cooler
Well, it's not working for our listeners because I don't think they want to look as fetching as you do or be cooler or anything
Like that. I see no phone calls coming in. Well, maybe they're holding out for the
What they can get if they pledge even more money if you pledge, of course, they're holding out for more money
I think obviously because they really want to show their support to the station and they want to know what what tokens will give them
in return
And so the listeners who call 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 should know that if they pledge
$100 they will get a ticket to this summer's hope conference. And in addition they will get an archive of
Hope number six DVDs now, let me let me just point out something here that maybe we were a bit remiss about
The the regular price for admission to the conference is $75. That's that's
On the website. That's what it says
Now the regular price for the hope number six the last conference which took place in 2006 the hope number six DVDs
Which are how many DVDs exactly? I don't know exactly but we said around 80 around 80 8-0
All right, the normal price for that is
$400 it's a lot of money. It almost makes me think there's some kind of a mistake here
You're saying for a pledge of $100. You'll get that that $400 value of 80 DVDs and
You'll get one admission to the upcoming hope conference in July in New York City
Is that what you're saying? I'm saying that but I'm also neglecting to remind people that you will also get a t-shirt
And off-the-hook t-shirt, this is really getting silly and but this only applies for this hour is that is that that's right
We have about 50 49 minutes left to call
1-212-209-2950 and get this. What if I wanted two tickets?
yeah, see the thing is I understand some of our listeners do in fact have friends and
They want to bring one of these friends to the hope conference
So if you pledge a hundred fifty dollars or more, you'll get two tickets to the hope conference plus the archive set
plus the t-shirt
That's insane. That really is insane
We're talking about you're getting you're getting things for a fraction of the value and you're supporting the radio station. So
That's incredible. There must be something wrong with the phones. That's the only thing I can think of did we not say the phone number?
And we'll say it again. Bernie. Why don't you say it? Maybe when you say it it works better
Or maybe not
Okay
His phone doesn't work. So a magical phone of his. Okay, who wants to say the phone number? How about you?
Red 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0. Okay
Well, I see a line lit. I'm not work. That was awesome. Well, alright guys that was lit before you started saying
Okay, there's another one. There's another one. And well, they might have picked up the wrong line
That was the key all the lines are lighting up in no particular order
So I'm wondering if people just sort of throwing the phones on the floor
But looks like we have five calls, which is good
That's good. Okay from now on you get to say the phone number. I like that job. I'll take it
All right, that's right. You can handle try it again 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0
Okay, you know that time it didn't work because there's still that time the volunteers picked up all the way
But there should be ten calls now because you got five calls the first time you said it and six
I see five. Oh, it jumped. Uh-huh seven. All right, eight nine. All right
He's getting his calls people want to get these lovely premiums and also keep us on the air keep WBA on the air keep off
The hook on the air who's really the important it is it is and it's it's a necessary evil that we have to do this
It's it's four times a year. Basically that the station has to raise money every season. We have a fundraiser and
That's how we keep the station on the air
We're broadcast off the top of the Empire State Building to four different states
And of course we're on the internet as well
And we don't have commercials the only way to make that possible in the middle of every line
Oh, well, they were just lit. No, we have we have I would say 11 calls on the line
Okay
Now I have to say if the caution people if you don't get an answer because how many volunteers we have now
They're not that not as many as many as the lines
Well, if you don't get through don't give up call back. Keep calling 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0. Thank you
Thank you for those people calling in and we look forward to seeing you at the hope conference or we look forward to seeing
You in a fetching sweatshirt and t-shirt as well
You could pledge now for these
Fetching sweatshirt and then later decide to come to the whole conference
We could see you in at the conference in the sweatshirt
I know you'll be really warm and if for some reason you can't come to the conference
You can always give the tickets to a friend or sell them to an enemy or whatnot. Whatever comes to mind
It's all sorts of things. Okay, or just watch the last conference and you'll be so I
Think after you watch the DVDs of the last conference you won't you'll want to come to this one just automatically
yeah, and and I should also point out that
sometimes getting the DVDs is the only way to see the talks because
There are just so many things to do at the conference and we're going to be talking about that in great detail in just a
Couple of moments, but first I just want to go over a couple of news items in in this week's news
I don't usually do this. I don't usually go out and buy newspapers. Sometimes I do
Especially when the headline catches my my fancy and look at look at yesterday's news day
You see the headline and yesterday's news day. Isn't that something listeners? You see this the jackpot is over one. No, not that
Why is there a lot of ad in the front page of the anyway
Cablevision news used to be known as Newsday
The front page headline is hacked exclamation point
ID theft on Long Island 5,000 customers hidden computer scheme that targeted Dave and Buster's
I have no idea who Dave and Buster's are is it's a very fun place. It's a fun place. It's a fun to do
What's do people's ID?
In the city, they have a nice restaurant and lots of video games and stuff. It's cool
But Bernie trying to say something was that just our echo
That was me echoing. There is a Dave and Buster's here in Philadelphia. It's one of these massive
casino
Video game pinball machine. It's a big gaming center for family fun. I am so out of it
I never find the family fun places or even the non family fun places. You don't have a family. I don't have fun either
Boy, anyway, let me just read the first paragraph of this an international computer hacking gang
Broke into the computerized cash registers electronically at the Dave and Buster's restaurant in Islandia
That's on Long Island and stole credit card information of more than 5,000 customers starting a flood of at least
$600,000 worth of fraudulent purchases around the world
According to federal prosecutors the remote break-in last year and use days is on top of this
The Veterans Memorial Highway Restaurant was part of an overall attack on the Dave and Buster's chain
Which has 49 locations in the United States including Farmingdale and Westbury
Now the gang members apparently made thousands of attacks attempting to break into computer systems around the world including 10 other Dave and Buster's locations
Nationwide, but finally struck paydirt at the Islandia restaurant while collecting the data sporadically from May to September of
Last year now the people charged and this was investigated by the Secret Service
They were in Estonia. They were in
Miami and I think there are only two of them right now, but
What do you think guys computer hacking gang? They have computers in Miami? Yeah, they do but
Is this is this Bernie, what do you think is this the right way to describe these people?
No, I mean it might have been a gang of people but yeah, it's kind of like check forgers saying that they're
they're a
Pencil and pen gang, you know, it's just silly
I mean computers are ubiquitous tools now and they could be used for good or bad and an organized crime gang as these people
Were probably organized and I don't know if gang is the right term, but you know
So they use computers to commit a crime. It doesn't mean they're a hacking gang. That's just giving hacking a bad name and it's it's
Doesn't make sense. Well, let's listen to what Eastern District United States Attorney Benton Campbell. I want to see his door
The nameplate on his door must take up the whole thing Eastern District United States Attorney Benton Campbell
Announced the unsealing of the indictments and said computer hacking and identity theft pose serious risks to our commercial personal and financial security
Hackers who reach into our country from abroad will find no refuge from the right from the reach of US criminal justice. That's right
hackers thinking of
Stealing identity of American citizens. We're gonna we're gonna find you
I mean if if anyone is considering this there's plenty of countries that do not in fact have extradition treaties with the US
Well, yeah all that aside though
I mean, this is just another hate piece against hackers and what hackers stand for. It's got nothing to do with hacking
It's got nothing to do with hacking. It's got to do with
Bad security and criminals and then things like that now they have a little sidebar protecting yourself
there's no protection for a consumer if hackers break into a merchants network other than checking credit card statements and
Challenging charges that are unfamiliar no protection against hackers at all. Well, it's not the consumer that's liable in these cases
It's the credit card companies or sometimes the merchants, but then we all have to pay
Extra rates
Anyway, it's it's the hackers fault in the end
The most inconvenient thing is the amount of time that it takes to settle these things if you see charges that you want to dispute
It's it's it's a whole
Pain in the something. I can't say on the air process to you know, dispute them and actually get them removed
Absolutely, but that was a bit of fun that that caught my eye yesterday when it was in the paper
But man, you know, you would think that news day would learn by now that that's just not accurate
And I thought that's kind of like a daily news headline. I would expect or post headline considering the post almost bought them
I'm not surprised
Okay, we're only down to three lines now
So if you're one of the people that didn't get through
This is a good time to call back two one two two zero nine two nine five. Oh quickly running down
Oh, you have to say the number two one two two zero nine two nine five zero. Okay. Well so far nothing's come in
So wait, the magic might be over for you. The country code is one if you're calling from abroad
That is true that is very true and very quickly to run down the premiums one more time
$25 you'll get an off-the-hook t-shirt or more. That's cheaper than the WBA I t-shirt which I'm looking at right now
And that's not even nearly as cool as ours. I know you didn't just diss the WPA I
t-shirt over WBA I
I'm just saying because there are gonna be people waiting for us when we leave the studio now and they're gonna want to discuss this
A little further. Yeah, if you don't like off the hook, but you like BAI you can place $30 and get the BAI t-shirt
It's purple and yellow and also quite fetching I would say if you have using that word
There are levels of fetching however, and ours is a it's a higher level of fetching than the WBA
If you pledge $30 for the WBA I t-shirt, would you not also get an off-the-hook t-shirt? Is that how it works?
I think so. I don't know during this hour
Anyway, so there's only 40 minutes left to get that kind of two t-shirt deal and then you can decide for yourself
Which one is more fetching?
All right, but that's for a pledge of $25 or $30 for a pledge of $50 you get what not Kevin is wearing right now
No, not that silly hat
No, not that one either. You'll get a brand new one the zipper zippered hooded sweat zippered hooded sweatshirt
It's hard to say but it's gray and it has lettering on the front or numbering on the front lettering on the back, right?
Yes, describe it quickly again. Well, yes very quickly. Well, it's gray and has red lettering on the front
What's the red lettering say 2600? Okay, and on the back it says hacker
All right, so people can see you running away and say look a hacker just stole my identity and it says hacker on his back
Yes, so you're easy to find exactly what it's for
So if you're gonna steal someone's identity if you're part of an international ring of some sort don't wear that I guess because then news
They will write a story about you. Okay for a pledge of $50
You'll get that 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 for a pledge of 100
who wants to
Tell us this one one more time
You're looking at me like I haven't said it before
But for your pledge of $100, which you can make by calling 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 5 calls on the line
You get a ticket to the upcoming hope conference and you get to hear me echo into Bernie's cell phone and you get an archive
Set of the hope number 6 DVDs 80 DVDs plus a ticket to see the talks alive this July
And if you pledge a hundred and fifty dollars, we'll throw in another hope ticket
So you'll have two hope tickets plus the archive set plus as with all pledges
For of 25 for more you'll get a t-shirt and if you think that's really just too good a deal
you can always pledge more and
What and we will thank you profusely because we're gonna lose our shirts over this because we're the ones giving away the tickets
Well, we're giving away the shirts as well. Of course, we lose them
We're losing everything, but hopefully hopefully a lot of people will come to the conference and and buy lots of things as well
I'm looking at the numbers
Holy Toledo is all I have to say here and we won't be going to Toledo Willie on our way to Dayton
No, unfortunately, but wow, we're over $1,000 already and we're not even at the halfway mark of the show. That's that's incredible guys
Really incredible. So thanks everybody who's calling in
I expect we'll have some names to read in just a little while 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 now
Okay, as far as the upcoming hackers on planet Earth conference, which is taking place in New York City at the historic
Hotel, Pennsylvania, which we understand will still be standing from July 18th through July 20th
Yes, the 7th the 7th hackers on planet Earth conference. The last hope will be taking place
From Friday morning until Sunday night keynote speaker. One of our keynotes has been announced as author Stephen Levy
He wrote the book hackers in 1984. We've got all kinds of other
amazing people showing up we've got
we've got
Jell-o be out for our favorite one of our favorite speakers. We've got
Kevin Mitnick will be there. We've got fiber optic. We've got Rob from Amsterdam. We've got the lock-picking people
I mean we just keep going on and on with all the people that are coming and we're still just trying to coordinate
We've got Steve Rambam. Yes. I don't like people. Is there gonna be any cool technology there? Well, yes, in fact, I believe
There will you just said you don't like people but you just got handed a list of people
So well these people I do like all right
So why tell us about those people then we'll talk about some of the technology. These people are some of our generous
donors
They include Joshua from Seattle
Seattle nice town. I like Seattle, Seattle, Washington
Not just any Seattle Francis from Drummondville, Quebec, John the Quebec. I don't know Drummondville
But I do know Quebec and that's a really cool province of a really cool country. They speak French there
See if I know something about all the places that people go ahead. Not Kevin JP from New York, New York
That's the city that we're in
Yes, that's the best you can come. Well, I'm trying to save time to Michael from Kansas City in Missouri
There are two Kansas City's there's one in Missouri and one across the border in Kansas
bread from Edmonton, Alberta Edmonton, Alberta home of the former Edmonton Oilers who moved to some southern state and it's a real shame is this
Jeopardy, I'm just trying to be informative here
Scott from Isle of Man Isle of Man. That's like a weird place someplace. I have not been to and I'd like to go there
I
Mean Isle of Man, I don't know where that is. I've heard of it. But where is that the UK?
It's I'm sorry, Bernie. What I believe it's near the British Isles. Well with the name like that it would have to be wouldn't it?
Sovereignty I think because there's a it's known as a sort of a tax and banking haven
It's also first also. It's odd that the Isle of Man is a major
Telecommunications hub there's something about international regulations and
laws and so forth that makes it more economical to put a
Put a major telecommunications hub in the Isle of Man
So there's all all manner of fiber major fiber optic trunks running in and out of the Isle of Man satellite
Stations and all kinds of things. Okay moving on Isle of Man. Okay. What else we have to thank?
Oh, we wish to thank James from Livonia, which is in Michigan
I don't know anything about that place. I don't Michigan Michigan looks like a hand on when you hold it off
That's like everyone holds up their hand or stop points to where in Michigan they live
I don't see it on the map myself, but that's what everybody from Michigan does
Joseph from Philadelphia, Philadelphia. That's where Bernie s is right now speak from Philadelphia Bernie
Those are sounds live from Philadelphia those those sounds of that everywhere that's everyone who will tell us their name good
But if you wish to join their numbers, the number is 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 we have three calls on the line
Now so it's a good time to call in
And we have come on people who have joined us in the studio want to say hi to tie the Rob over there
and to gray frequency and
they're actually the the brains behind a lot of the design that's going on for the conference and
If you see something looks really cool
It's probably because of them or one of the other people that's working on design things
So many people collaborating so many people doing things for this upcoming conference, I think it's gonna be our biggest one yet
But what we have happening this this summer
I don't know
I kind of I can't I can't find the words for it because it is of such a nature that
I think history will be made in in some manner
The things that we will be doing just for the attendees the people who show up
They're going to have a marvelous bit of technology with them the entire weekend who would who would like to introduce this
Words that are better lexicon you want you want to give it a stab? Yeah
We're going to be using the radio frequency ID
electronic tags RFID RFID and
Tagging lots of people who come in the door at hope. All right
Now let me stop you right there when you say we're gonna be tagging people right away
I think of cows being shot. Well, they do use RFID for cows, but we're not gonna shoot people and inject things under their skin
no, no, this is going to be the admission badge for hope is going to be an RFID tag that's active and
Has a little blinking light that looks cool blinking lights. We like blinking lights. We're gonna make a game out of it
It's a massive interactive game using the entire hotel
Using the entire hotel, yes, so well, we we don't actually have the conference in the entire hotel
We have the conference in the conference area, but we do sort of wander throughout the entire hotel
Yeah, there are a lot of places to wander in that place. So we've come up with a
game and we're going to track all of these tags going around the hotel and you'll be able to look at screens and projections and
These wild data visualizations of where everybody is and what's going on and we're also
Surveying the people who come in and get one of these things
As to their interests in the things that are being talked about at the conference
so like if you're interested in Wi-Fi or you're interested in lock-picking you
Go to a terminal at the conference and you tell us that and link it to your badge and we will be able to help
you
through an massive SMS system
going to your phone tell you when things are going on that you're interested in and
Also, the SMS is going to be part of the game and we have all these things tying together all these cool technologies that we're trying
to wrap into the same thing
Amazing. I know Darvin you're involved in this as well. So I know the SMS thing is something we were talking about last week
How how is that going to work people use their mobile phones and and be able to to find out things that are happening
yeah, people will be able to text a phone number and
interact with a
low level let AI
that will carry them through the game and give them instructions and they can text keywords clues that they find and
receive replies
Interesting and this this will guide them through the places they need to be for the game and the things that they need to do
uh-huh, so now
Theoretically somebody has to go to a particular location and if they go to a particular location
I guess the RFID tag will register that they're there and what they get they get points for being there or something
Yeah, we're doing this game. That's called the life clock and you start with a certain amount of points that is
your life in the game for your player and
As the weekend goes on you lose points as time goes past
But you lose points you lose points because this is the last hope it's all about
Did the death of hope well mortality?
Earth will go out in a cinder one day and so you you actually lose points as the weekend goes on and to stay alive
you have to
Embrace your interest in technology and go to the seminars and go to the
Project centers on the mezzanine level or at least send your tag to those or send you tag those locations
Yes, what happens if you die though? Can you rejuvenate yourself or are you done? I think we're just gonna kill people. Oh, wow
This has been our dream from the start amazing
Yeah
So well, we're gonna have all these RFID tags out there and people have to go to certain places and register
But just by being there they get more points. Yeah, but that's only one aspect of this, right?
There are a lot of aspects of this. Yeah
We're also doing all these data visualizations where we're going to show
people
who they're connected to and
how they're connected and
it's we're doing one that's gonna look like a weather weather map that shows how many people are in a certain area and
Well, give us an example of how that that networking will work. You know, you'll say what your interests are and then what happens from there?
Well Christian
Well, you can if you add your information into the database that we're going to have you can be matched up with people
Who are matching your interests say you're interested in cryptography and you want to know things about the cryptography seminars
you can also match up with people who have
Registered a username and who are also interested and you can even in some instances play the game with them
Interesting. Now, let's say you're interested in in federal agents now, you could register as a federal agent
You don't have to show any proof that you're a federal agent
But wouldn't you then be able to find all the people who say they're federal agents very easily
Um, yeah, that would be kind of the point because what we're trying to do is we're trying to take things like like web 2.0
Like, you know how Flickr has a tagging system and you can find people's pictures
Yes
Steve Rambam was here a few weeks ago and he scared the daylights out of me by telling me how it's possible to to find
Somebody's photos randomly and track them down. That's incredible
Well, we're basically taking that concept and we're taking it into meatspace
You are a tagged object and you can find similar objects a meat space into meatspace. Oh my god
I'm using words like this too. That's that's unbelievable Mike used fetching before I believe
What is wrong with fetching?
It just hasn't been used in 50 years. But other than that, it's fine
So Wow, okay
This is this is really something and it's gonna be funny because we get to tag Steve Rambam as well and find out where
He goes and who he associates with but here's the thing
we talk about RFID on the program and in the magazine a lot and
obviously, there are all kinds of risks and and things that
That we think might be a bad a bad use of them. This is a good use of RFID Bernie
What's your take on all that?
We had obviously we've been working on this for a while and what we the bigger picture that we're trying to
do at the last hope is to
showcase a model society where everybody's movements and associations are tracked using RFID technology
This is what's going to come to our society
But we want to show people what's coming next is going to as was mentioned earlier large displays will show in real time where people are
Going whom they associate with how long they associate with these people when they associate with them
How often and then we're going to demonstrate certain data mining techniques like you those used by police and intelligence agencies
to that they can be used to determine interpersonal relationships and to build organizational structures between people that might not
Have been obvious. So, um, this is exactly the kind of technology that the NSA is using with with telephone traffic
But we'll be analyzing traffic of RFID tags as people are moving around the conference. Now. The question is
After you see all this will be better informed to decide whether we really want a society where everyone can be tracked
Wherever they go on and and it's going to raise questions like who's going to manage this information?
How will be shared how it'll be analyzed and aggregated and why so these are questions will be raised
At this conference and I think as more people become familiar with this technology and what it can be used for
They can decide, you know, what's good about it and whether this is going to be used for for their benefit or whether it's going
To be used against them and it's really just to educate people about this technology and so they can make their own decisions about it
Now
Now the significance of this is really how how cheaply and with how few resources were able to do this
compared to corporations and governments and stuff and
By the way, one of the one of the technical details for people who are more interested in the actual platform that we're using
We're gonna be using the open beacon platform that was developed in Germany
and there's a whole wiki on that where you can look at the schematics and and and get more information about the hardware and
And and the software that's gonna I was gonna say this sounds very German
This sounds like something the Germans would would do and do well
They're they're always involved in neat things and they've helped us with this tremendously, right? Absolutely
Yeah, and and so so the infrastructure that we have is going to be based entirely on an incredibly low budget
Relatively speaking. I mean we did spend money on it, but it's not nearly as much as corporations or governments
Yeah
and I think people be amazed to see just what can be done with that fairly low budget and a bit of
Imagination and also people who want to be involved in that process there. There is still time
There's still room for more people to participate. How would people get involved that they are interested in this if they're interested in the
RFID project or any other project that we're doing for hope they can email projects at hope net and
Get in touch with us
We also have some art stuff that's going on for the lobby a lot of art stuff and you're involved in that too
I want to point out one more thing about the RFID project, which is that
Because our budget is limited. We can't give these RFID tags to every attendee
We can only give it to those who pre-register and that includes the people who pledged tonight
And maybe we'll have a few left over for the very first ones to show up at the door, but it's it's really
Yet another reason to call 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 and I know we sound like a broken record
But it keeps us on the air and you get to play with this new technology
So really everyone wins and if you're listening to this show after 8 o'clock on Wednesday night
then you can always go to
www.hope.net and pre-register from there as well and
Make sure that you get one of these really cool tags
Just one more point though before we move on to the art should people be afraid should people be scared of these tags
Do people avoid them? I?
Think they should just be curious. I
Mean, it's certainly dangerous to have people watching you everywhere you go. That that seems like a bad idea
I mean, I just read the story about the hackers stealing battery out of these things
I just read the story about hackers stealing your identity and shouldn't people be a little concerned that
Hackers are tracking your whereabouts in this conference. That's
What do you what do you say to people who are worried about that?
I'd be more worried about the federal government tracking my everywhere about
The the point is that this is happening whether you like it or not in in in real life
You're being tracked whether you like it or not. There's there's a lot more surveillance cameras
There's there's a lot more of a paper of a paper trail and data trail of where you go and what you do and this
Is really an opt-out system
So if you end up with one of these tags and you don't actually want it
Maybe you can take the battery out or maybe you can shield it or do something like that
We will have we will have tags with that don't have these right we will have test
So maybe you can swap it with someone who wants to participate in the system and has one
This is a great opportunity
This is the equivalent of having an electronic voting machine to play with to learn exactly
What you can do with the technology how it could be used how it could be abused how you might be able to hack it
This is an incredible opportunity to be involved in something that the powers that be will never let you be involved in
so for that reason alone that reason alone, I think people should be pre-registering and going to the conference and
Having as much fun as possible with these little devices, which I think are really really cool
Guys what's involved in in putting this together?
I know there's a whole team of people that are not here that are have been working on this project
Non-stop for four months and I see some of the activity there and it's simply it's it's it's it's mind-bending what's going on?
What kind of what kind of intelligence are we are we making use of with all these people?
We're making use obviously of the hardware end of it and how we gather data. We're using
Databasing technology and we're connecting it to a web-based front-end. So we're using web technologies as well
Yeah, the processing org is a site that has a
MIT I believe came up with it MIT came up with a markup style language that allows you to
visualize real-time 3d and 2d
Information structures and you can really do whatever you want with it because it's it's quite flexible
But we found that it's very suited for our purposes. Mm-hmm
Now just just to give people a sense there are all different aspects of the project all different committees as visualization
I believe is one
Visualization and integration and infrastructure are three main teams and there's also people working on the database that kind of hop between them
Mm-hmm, there's about I think 12 12 or 15 people something working in and out
There's there's about seven or eight core people and then other people that are helping us
The different aspects, but we could certainly use some additional programmers
If anybody wants to lend a hand or who has some free cycles to do some work email address projects at hope.net
Absolutely, and probably even as we speak somebody on that team is working on this project right now. They are it's it's incredible
I'm blown away by it
So it's just one of the many things that going on at the conference
But I think this is what is gonna make it really cool and and and Mitch of course
Who's also here has played an enormous role in actually getting the tags manufactured
Yeah, which is no easy thing to do and he's had connections in in China with that
Yeah, tell us about the you actually went all the way to China, but you didn't go there just to check on on these tags
Yeah, I didn't go there for
Doing this specifically, but while I was there I set up manufacturing for the tags in China
And I went there actually to check out a plant
Of a guy I've been working with he made me some samples of
Brain machine we're going to be manufacturing them since they're so popular to do it yourself
I thought I'd make them available available for people who want to buy them ready-made and
I'm not
okay with
Making the world a better place for some people at the expense of others
So I went there to check out the plant to see if they treat their people well pay them
Enforce safety standards and treat the environment well, and it turns out they actually do of course for the wrong reasons
They just don't want their people to leave to another plant because there are so many of them
But anyways while I was there
I also set up the manufacturing process for these RFID tags that we'll be using
Mm-hmm Wow, so it's incredible
It really is a global effort going on here stretching from Germany to China to the United States and other places as well
So I'm really looking forward to this now Phil. I just want to bring you in one more time Phil from make
You've seen a lot of really cool projects in your dealings over the years, especially with make magazine
How do you think this is gonna turn out?
I think this is gonna be great
I think hardware is one of the things that have brought a lot of new people into the hacking scene and the DIY scene so
From RFID, which is a popular topic and make to jamming RFID, which is a popular topic
Oh, and there'll be some of that going on to all that. Yeah. Yeah
In fact the last hope I had to talk with lady Ada we did a presentation and
She had her open source cell phone jammer, which also jams all RF. So GPS
RFID Wi-Fi and that'll be there now. It's kind of a fun project that lots of people have so two years later
They're they're more common than than they were before
So I think that's one of the neat things that I'm looking forward to is all the type of hardware projects from Arduino
which is a very simple kind of
Almost art meets tech platform for people to play around with all the way up to you know
Giant transmitters and like ham radio people. So I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, and you're gonna be giving a presentation to as well
Yeah, I'm gonna have a presentation. I'm gonna have maybe a follow-up to the first one
And we we're gonna be debuting maybe a little film about people building weird things and electronics. Oh cool
Yeah, and there'll be there'll be a special thing about the history of pay phones in there, which I'm sure you might enjoy that awesome
Yeah, I definitely will hopefully have the time to actually see it
And we're also gonna have all kinds of hackerspaces from all around the world. They're they're popping up everywhere hackerspaces
if you're a part of a hackerspace right to hackerspace at 2600 calm and
The good people there will hopefully be able to include you in the hackerspace village
We're gonna have an actual village downstairs sort of like a campground of hackerspaces all around the world
So all all the information
www.hope.net hackers on planet earth conference July 18th through 20th, and it's shaping up to be something incredible. We're up to
$1,785 we want to break the 2000 mark again 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 we have three calls on the line
If that didn't convince people to pledge for the hope tickets, I don't know what possibly could yeah
I mean really you only have 17 minutes left before they're not offered on the radio station anymore
You can always pre-register at www.hope.net
But for now 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 is the number to call we have people to thank you
We want to thank some of the people who already did pledge by calling 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0
Among them is a Peter who's from Guelph, Ontario
Joe Feria, that's the English-speaking province of Canada. Oh, we have commentary one of them. Yes, Joe from Columbus, Ohio Columbus, Ohio
I'll be passing through Columbus, Ohio my way to Dayton Michael from Newark
New York, New Jersey. Yes
I'm sorry. I wish I did I've tried I really have but I just can't do it Jessica and Escondido
Wait
Isn't there some other bit of information like where that is? Oh, that's in California. Okay, LA land. Okay
I think that says it all
But okay. Thanks for that that pledge. Yes, Sean from Beaumont, California
Again, California a nice state Michael from Silver Spring
Maryland, Maryland, how about that?
See, I'm running out of things. I'm Kristen in Madison, Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin. Very cool collegey town type town
And I have David from Lorenzo, California
What's with California all of a sudden all the California people are calling. Thanks everybody for calling in. I think we have more
Are we I'm out. All right, we're done. Okay. Well, there's always the anonymous people to thank you anonymous people
You've kept us going many years 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 really quickly running down the pledges
$25 for an off-the-hook t-shirt
$50 for a t-shirt plus
The the new 2600 gray zipper hooded sweatshirt that says 2600 on the front and hacker on the back and big red letters
$100 you'll get a ticket to the upcoming Hope conference in New York City, July 18th through 20th in
addition to that ticket you will get a full archive of 80 DVDs of
The hope number 6 conference a $400 value, but you'll get it along with a ticket and a t-shirt for only
$100 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 pledge 150. You'll get two tickets
Unbelievable deal 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0. Okay, we're gonna talk about art at the conference
We have all kinds of art projects as well at Derivan
You want to give us an update on that as well as long as you don't anything not too many things to work on at once
But yeah, it's a lot of stuff
But as Phil said there is a lot of tech going on in the art scene or a lot of art going on in the tech
scene
however, you want to look at it and a lot of it crosses over into
many of these technical concepts like tracking and
just generally how technology is involved with one's life and
we've been I've been tapping local artists through local communities like dork bot and
Basically getting people who want to showcase what they have done with things like like Arduinos pick programming
Just lights wires computers anything and it's partly to showcase what can be done with technology
It's partly a draw because we want people to come by and look at all this great stuff and go
Hey, what's going on in here? Hey, there's this conference going on. Let me see what's going on about this
So we have like I'm not going to tell you everything because I want some of it to be a surprise
Yes, but we have somebody for instance who is
Who came up with bioinformatic?
Wearable objects that can read your heart rate or your
skin galvanization and
Tell things about you kind of like a lie detector does
Oh, wow, and he also has a couple of little robots that he's gonna have robots. They're robots
Oh, there's gonna be robots wanted robots to come to hope and it looks like I'll finally get my wish
We've had robots before yeah, but real robots, you know the kind that you know from Star Trek and all that
I
Don't think those are quite that advanced but they're getting they're getting there. They really are
Now you mentioned dork bot for those people
We have a lot of people listening on many of our listeners are in their 80s in fact and hi to those people out there
Maybe they don't know what dork bright is. I want to tell us something about that
Well dork bot is a loose organization of people who do interesting things with electricity
That's their tagline and what they do essentially is that anything any kind of project that they have that uses electricity?
Ranging from robotics to
Text messaging actually got the text messaging idea from somebody. I met at dork bot
Yeah, the SMS the SMS technology it's simple but it can be used for all kinds of fun it can be used for a lot
of things and
Unfortunately, it can be used for spam
But we're trying to make it not
Be used for that because it really is a great technology and it's a great way to make an interaction
Personal right like you you're not
Communicating with some kind of you're communicating with something anonymous, but you're communicating personally with it
And you're carrying on a dialogue, especially in this instance
What I want is to be is for the player to carry on a dialogue
with an AI and have is it gonna be sort of like an adventure game where you basically are moving around in an area and
Sending commands and getting responses pretty much. Yeah. Is there any risk of being eaten by a crew?
Yes, I'm will tell yeah all sorts of things now this this is of course old stuff over in Europe where they've been playing with
This kind of thing for ages. I remember
When they had the blinking lights on the building in in Berlin
You could play pong with your cell phone on the building, you know with all the lights. It's the most incredible thing
We're not quite there yet. I don't think I really do think it's a shame that we don't have this kind of thing yet
Especially in a city like New York where there are so many buildings you could play pong on I know
The UN is the best one I think yeah, you could play a great game of pong from Queens or Brooklyn
You'd need approval from a hundred and something countries though. Just just to play one game of pong only if you asked for approval
That's that's my motto. You only have to get permission if you ask
I'm just saying ping-pong diplomacy has come a long way in the past however many years
But there may be longer than waiting to use that line and just came up with it now. It was good though
Yeah, definitely two one two two zero nine two nine five
Oh, we're down to two calls on the line and we're over 20 over 2,000. We're at 2285
So thank you everybody for calling in and making us do keep calling though. Yes, please keep calling
There's only two calls on the line now
So and the volunteers they get so sad when there's not that many people leaning back in their chairs and dozing off
So make sure that doesn't happen two one two two zero nine two nine five
Oh arson is here again with more names to thank and I'll have more trivia for each town. That is read. What do we have?
We want to thank
Duncan who's from Harrow Smith, which is in Ontario. What's with Ontario all of a sudden?
It's it's a great province, but I'm happy to and Duncan has a note for us
Okay, which is that the Oilers are still in Edmonton. I thought they moved. Really? Okay. I'm sorry then
When is that other team that that move the Calgary stamp? No, that's that's a football team the Calgary Flames. They moved
I think they're Atlanta. I don't know keep going. Okay, we have Cliff Resnick from Brooklyn, New York
Okay, we have Mike from Rochester, New York
Okay, those are two places in New York. I think that's it. All right
Wait, that's you're gonna tell us two places in New York are both in New York
You're really getting we're trying to save time here because we're running out of time quickly
I mean we do have other things that we want to be covering
I mean any other hope news and anything else that I know we have a ton of things
There's so many there there really is not Kevin. You have a telephone project going on. Oh, yeah
This is the Tele Freak project project. Tele Freak is doing some quite neat things
Uh-huh, we will be showing up with a who is a Tele Freak for one thing
Who is Tele Freak's been a project ongoing for several years now providing?
Conferences for hackers and freakers all over the world. I mean teleconferences teleconferences. Yes. Okay the old days now
Yeah, the old days back when we started this show in the 1980s
Teleconferences were a major part of the hacking world people would basically
Get a hold of these corporate teleconferencing lines that were very expensive by the way
And hook people all over the world together and you'd be able to back in the day when it cost a lot of money to make
Phone calls you'd be able to talk to people anywhere and have maybe what 40 people on a phone on a phone call at once
It was madness
I'm sorry your microphone somehow went off. I think you were touching it. That's the problem
You did though, but now it doesn't work anymore. All right, you're gonna have to use a Redbirds mic good. All right, sorry
so anyways as
So I was saying we now provide these conferences are free using voice over IP and at hope we are bringing in a
Asterix box and allowing people to call out to almost anywhere in the world
Wow, so those people who have not yet experienced the thrill of cheap or free phone calls will be able to do so there
Yes, and with several of the little little goodies will be throwing in we are rebuilding the old 2600 BBS system the voice BBS
Yes. Oh boy. I thought that was dead
It's coming back. It's coming back to haunt you again. Oh, how wonderful
Now, okay, so people will be able to make phone calls anywhere in the world almost
Well, like I guess not to Antarctica maybe or not to ships at sea or basically
Asian cell phones, that's that's about it. You can't call European or Asian cell phones. Can I call Diego Garcia?
There's only one way to find out. All right
Someone sent me a Robert Mugabe's phone number recently. So let's call it but we could call that might be a cell phone
I'm not sure about busy. Well, we'll make sure we call it a time when he's probably not busy like 4 in the morning or
Something and for all the people who won't be able to make it the conference
We were providing a in-house voice conference for people outside to call in and talk people inside
But those of you who think you can't make it to the conference think again because you know
These things succeed when a lot of people show up and participate not just show up and watch show up and participate
Use your brain use your imagination come up with your own projects
Mingle with people meet people. What what has happened what has happened at these conferences is simply incredible people get jobs because they made prospective employers
People make friends for life people have even met their future spouses at these things
It's it's it's unbelievable what happens when you when you mix thousands of people together will have
Interests and curiosity and things like that
So by all means do whatever you have to do to make it to hope this July now
I know on the forums we have hope forums discussion board at talk that hope net
We have an ongoing discussion there about cheap airfares and cheap places to stay in case the hotel is a little too pricey for you
So if you have a question go to talk that hope net ask somebody somebody will be able to help you and figure out a
Way to get you here for cheap or next to nothing seriously, though
If you're from anywhere, but the United States the dollar is worthless these days so you can basically come for free
Anyway, I think that's why we have so many Canadians pledging tonight. Is that how it works?
I know the last conference we had so many Canadians come to the conference. We really did a lot of Canadians and
That could be a reason right there, but the Canadian dollar now is equal to the American dollar
Yeah, pretty much. All right, but we always get a lot of people from overseas as well, and we hope that continues
Yeah, things are more expensive gas is more expensive airfares are more expensive. But we're hackers. We can figure out ways around things and
We're determined. So hopefully something like money something like high prices won't stop you
all right, again our phone number here for the for the fundraiser that we're in the middle of at WBA eyes 2 1 2 2 0 9 2
9 5 0 but we're talking about the hope conference and
Information on that can be found at
www.hope.net
And it's just like five minutes left to get these premiums and support the station at the same time. That's absolutely true
That's absolutely true. And we hope to hear a
good response
Not only not only now sorry don't mind the Germans
But we
We hope to have and I guess what two months left before the conference begin is almost exactly two months, right?
Better get working. Yeah, we better start organizing this thing
We hope to keep building to a rising crescendo and get as many people involved as we possibly can from all different
varieties of
Backgrounds with all sorts of ideas. It's not too late to pitch your idea
To the various people running various things again projects at hope net
If you have an idea for one of the projects if you want to give a talk
We have a lot of talks
But we we still are able to squeeze in some more and we we're trying to get another track of talks in as well
So send your ideas to speakers at hope net
And if you want to sell something, well, we have vendor tables vendors
vendors or vendor vendors with an S, you know, I think they both work vendors at hope net and
If you want to volunteer to help us out because it takes a lot of volunteer effort volunteers
Or volunteer one of those at hope net they both work Mitch
Yeah
I just wanted to say I'm gonna be giving an ongoing workshop where people can build
Brain machines for just the cost of the parts and also TV be gone kits
And I'll show people how to do all sorts of cool things with microcontrollers
So basically we're gonna have a recreation of the scene in Germany
last last
Conference the last German hacker conference took place in the summer where we see people from all over the world
With little flashing lights in front of their eyes to sort of mesmerized by the brain machines that they have just built
Yeah a little
chaotic crazy community formed around the workshop and all these people are
Blissing out to their inner world
People come by wondering what is going on here?
And then they try it out and many people went away with their own brain machines that they built at the workshop
It just was most incredible sight seeing all these people and and I believe you described it with people
There's very content smiles on their faces as they're busy building things
That's that's just something that you bring to all these conferences and places that you go and it's it's really easy
I would always get letters in like grade school that I have
Very poor fine motor skills is what they call it
And and I Mitch was able to teach me how to make a TV be gone at one of the German conferences
So so surely anyone can do it. You said you couldn't solder to save your life
I'm not sure how soldering would save my life, but
One day we're going to figure out a way but yes, that's also going to be at the conference. So by all means
We hope to see people there as well. Okay, we're only $65 away. Oh, no, we're over 2600
Okay, I was gonna say we were $65 away, but now we're over 2600 doesn't mean people can't still call
You only have a couple minutes though
2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 again very quickly $25 for a t-shirt
$50 for a sweatshirt and a t-shirt
$100 one admission to the hope conference and a full DVD archive of the last of the previous hope conference hope number six and
$150 two tickets plus the archive plus the off-the-hook t-shirt 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 those names you have to thank no
No, these are the same. Okay already thanked it
But we just want to say that any pledge from ten dollars to a thousand dollars also keeps off the hook and keeps WB
I on the air and we want to thank you for that
Yes, I want to thank everybody for calling in we back again next week with yet another action-packed show. I want to thank Alex Derevin
Mitch Phil and everybody else for stopping in saying hi
And I will see a bunch of you in Dayton, Ohio for the Dayton hamvention this coming weekend
In fact, not Kevin and I we're gonna be driving the 2600 van across, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Ohio, West, Virginia, and I think that's it
starting starting late tonight, so
Line up against alongside the interstate and wave as we pass by. All right. See you next week
I
Whoo, hey, that's right. That's right. Hey, Hillary stay in there
Don't let them kick you off that the the running you stay till the very end. They just want to start the media hoopla