And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
The time is just about 7 o'clock.
Time once again for Off the Hook.
somebody who we know those of us involved in organizing hope and 2600 and
things like that no James powderly co-founder of graffiti research lab Mike
what was graffiti research lab known for at the hope conferences at the hope
conferences they're known for providing quite a spectacle mm-hmm
LED throw LED throw is they did in a really big way two years ago and in a
in a nicer way this time and they are also known they're really known for
providing tools especially electronic tools where people can get their message
out so James powderly was actually involved apparently in getting messages
out in China during the Olympics and apparently the Chinese authorities did
not go for that he is being held we have no further information we just know he
was detained a couple of days ago as he was preparing to use a handheld green
laser to project messages on prominent structures in Beijing that's according
to the organization students for a free Tibet a little later in the program
we're going to be speaking to James's wife live on the radio so we'll have
updates on just where that story has has gone but definitely is a little weird
when somebody you know who's being detained can't say I'm all that
surprised that they would react in that way they're detaining a lot of people
the Chinese authorities they have these areas in Beijing which are official
protest areas we have that here too yeah well well the one of the main
differences in Beijing is that you have to get a permit and they deny all
permits don't they do it here as well they they occasionally screw up here and
let someone protest there they are denying all the permits but they have
these official demonstrations areas with no demonstrations in them Wow because
everybody's happy I guess right so they say okay well again we'll have more on
that in just a little bit over on the other side of the world in our favorite
country of Georgia apparently the website of the president of Georgia the
small nation that's battling Russian forces over a breakaway enclave has been
moved to a location in the u.s. guess what state it's in Texas Georgia isn't
that brilliant usually but I thought all websites were in Texas well not this I
guess they requested the American Georgia it might as well I mean there's
gonna be two American Georgia's pretty soon the original servers located in the
country of Georgia were flooded and blocked by Russians over the weekend how
do you how do you know who's flooding and blocking you know might as well just
say hackers it's just as ignorant a statement anyway the Georgian born chief
executive of Atlanta based hosting company tulip systems Inc happened to be
on vacation in the other Georgia the one overseas when fighting broke out a week
ago Friday and she cold-called the government cold-called the government to
offer her help and transferred president.gov.ge that doesn't stand for
General Electric yet it stands for Georgia and r-u-s-t-a-v-i-2.com which is
the website of a prominent Georgian TV station she transferred those to her
company's servers on Saturday she said the attacks were traced to Moscow and
St. Petersburg the one in Russia not the one in Florida and they're continuing on
the US servers the president's site was intermittently available midday Monday
route tracing performed by the Associated Press confirmed that the
sites were being hosted at tulip so yeah what's the point of hosting them
somewhere else if they still can't keep them up well because apparently the
American George is not being bombed by Russia so I guess there's less stress
involved in trying to keep your site up against the denial service attacks
manual yes go ahead Bernie I heard that when the story broke a couple weeks ago
that Russia had invaded Georgia that neighboring that all the Walmart in
neighboring Alabama were so immediately sold out of ammunition because the
people there were preparing okay interesting good story there here's a
here's something else and this is a rather interesting story as well the
Princeton Review which is the test preparatory firm there are people that
grade SAT scores and other things like that oh they don't great well don't they
aren't they the ones that give you the grades no I just prepare you for the
they prepare you for the test okay because it comes from Princeton anyway I
thought the SATs were I seem to remember just in being yes yes the educational
testing service may actually be in Princeton it's kind of weird how they're
both in the same city and none of it has anything to do with Princeton
University that's very weird as well anyway they accidentally published the
personal data and standardized test scores of tens of thousands of Florida
students on its website where they were available for seven weeks yes and
somehow we missed this a flaw in configuring the site allowed anyone to
type in a relatively simple web address and have unfettered access to hundreds
of files on the company's computer network including educational materials
and internal communications another test preparatory company said it
stumbled on the files while doing competitive research yeah now the New
York Times looked into this and they were provided with the web address of
the internal files on the condition that they not be named so I would have named
them just to embarrass people the Times then informed the Princeton Review of
the problem on Monday and the company promptly shut off access to that portion
of its site I don't know if you can say it's promptly after seven weeks well
they can say they didn't know about it for seven weeks isn't that possible
well I don't understand why companies like are hell-bent on on posting yeah
these files on on their web servers you know I mean uh-huh that's the least
secure way you could possibly do it even even just putting it behind you know an
HT access file or something up in an HTTP password right right why would you
put it on a public website and to begin with so you should be if it's private
information if it's company-only information it should be definitely
behind like a virtual private network or something it shouldn't just be sitting
on a web server so redhack you would give them a score of zero for this I
think the minimum you can get is what like 200 200 for running it well it used
to be anyway one file on the site contained information on about 34,000
students in public schools in Sarasota Florida where the Princeton Review was
hired to build an online tool to help the county measure students academic
progress and that file included the students birthdays ethnicities whether
they had learning disabilities whether English was a second language and their
level of performance on the Florida comprehensive assessment test which is
given to students in grades 3 to 11 18 did you take that test the Florida
comprehensive assessment test yes I took it several times it's one of the worst
standardized tests ever devised by anyone ever another folder contained
dozens of files with names and birthdates for 74,000 students in the
school system of Fairfax County Virginia and they had hired the Princeton Review
to measure and improve student performance the Princeton Review said
the student information should have been protected by a password but that the
protection was most likely lost when the company moved its site to a new internet
provider in late June that's how it happens folks they move to another
provider and just forget the password and as if one password is enough to
protect it's no excuse to be putting it on a public web server to begin it
really should be on a private network you're gonna have confidential
information you don't need any sense I mean people that are that are running
small businesses have better security than than things this matters curious
how it came to be legal that the Sarasota Florida School Board or
whatever even gave 34,000 students information to a private company like
this I thought we had data protection laws to protect the children the one
thing we protect in this country is the children and it seems that even even
they aren't safe from the Princeton Review so Mike you say that they have
failed this test yes all right then but I say also the Sarasota Florida School
Board needs to be subject to further examinations dot-red I was gonna say
that's what a terms of service are for sign away uh-huh well terms of service
what would they what would they provide for here most you sign a little
signature and then all your information can be given to anyone but these are
third grade students they're not capable of evaluating smart parents are for
anyway in addition to the information on students the site contained the
Princeton Reviews educational materials for the LSAT PSAT and SAT exams course
schedules and internal analysis of the effectiveness of the company's
instructors and the entire text of some Princeton Review books like the 2008
edition of cracking the LSAT yeah and there's all kinds of fun stuff in there
but wow yes yet another lesson learned about how not to do things but nothing
will happen you know nothing will happen nothing ever happens you probably didn't
learn at all well we'll talk about it for a little bit and then yes you say
oops we're sorry we took it down did you guys see the the front page story on
CNN a couple of days ago this is literally the front page experts u.s. at
risk for cyber attacks and if you look at this this image you see like this
sort of collage of of world leaders that's that's Hitler there's Donald
Trump was next to him Donald Trump is next to Hitler I don't understand what
they're trying to say there it's just all these people and and we're at we're
at risk for for some kind of cyber you know Hitler did a lot of bad things of
course but I don't think cyber attacks were really on his he never attacked
this company that this country's infrastructure via
like to use missiles not not computers well the next large-scale military or
terrorist attack on the United States if and when it happens may not involve
airplanes or bombs or even intruders breaching American borders so basically
they're saying that carrying this on in their words by shadowy hackers half a
world away carrying on such an assault on cyberspace that is equivalent to a
large-scale military or terrorist attack in in real life internet security
experts believe that it could be just as devastating to the US economy and
infrastructure as a deadly bombing just as devastating yeah nobody dies but it's
just as devastating because maybe your credit card doesn't work for yeah maybe
maybe you can't order something on Amazon experts say last week's attack on
the former Soviet Republic of Georgia in which a Russian military offensive was
preceded by an internet assault that overwhelmed Georgian government websites
wait can we be clear yes the deaths were caused by the bombing not the cyber
attack that preceded it well let's let's make sure about that all right they say
that signals a new kind of cyber war one for which the United States is not
fully prepared nobody's come up with a way to prevent this from happening even
here in the US said Tom Berling acting chief executive of guess what tulip
systems you see how it all comes around again and we know we know the story
behind the story wine we know why he's the acting chief executive because the
other chief executive is in Georgia the country you know what's interesting
about this story though is that there's nothing about moving the Georgian
website to that particular company this story came out before that and for some
reason tulip is being mentioned it's kind of weird isn't it I would all it
all sort of wraps around itself anyway hackers mounted coordinated assaults on
Georgian government media banking and transportation sites in the weeks before
Russian troops invaded did you know about that I didn't hear any stories
about that only after the fact yeah it's known as distributed denial service the
attacks employ multiple computers to flood networks with millions of
simultaneous request overwhelming servers and crippling websites so yeah
it's all about hackers go ahead Rob you know I can only speak from my own
experience but I've had my websites go down many times over the years and I
somehow managed not to physically die as a result so do I know something maybe
that other people don't know and lucky you've been very lucky so far you know
how long is this luck gonna hold out yes a question about this photo actually to
go back to it the one with Hitler in it it's I don't know who's next name it's
actually it's not Donald Trump but there have their hands in the exact same
pose and I'm wondering what trying to kind of parallel CNN's trying to make
here I wish I knew who it was so I could get a better picture like Hitler has his
hands like held up no obviously the radio audience can't see and so does
the person next to him Mike did you see this picture so it's a lot of fun but I
don't know who it is yeah I don't think there's any way for our listeners to see
it because it's no longer on the front page a team yeah well firefly you
mentioned your websites have gone down you've never managed to die from it but
you have to remember that's the whole nature of the war on terror making
hard criminals that have otherwise either non-criminals are just you know
mild criminals yeah very true all right Mike do you have any insight on that
picture it's kind of some white guy yes it's a bunch of white guys but only two
are clearly pictured okay we have this interesting little bit here actually
Mike I'm gonna hand you recognize that phone number I'd like you to dial that
because we have demonstration I don't think this is gonna work actually this
is something you can't hear me dial well I don't want to hear you don't know
this is something known as the tele megaphone it's in Norway and this
telemetry I can't read what is this last digit here no that's a five all right
that's our that's a number we always use see now they know one digit to that
phone number the tele megaphone Dale stands seven meters tall did you dial
it already yeah okay well actually you dialed it too fast yeah let me read this
first it's it stands seven meters I didn't know you're gonna go that fast
stand seven meters tall on a top of Bergberg's Letton Mountain overlooking
the idyllic dollars fjord in Western Norway now when you dial the tele
megaphones phone number the sound of your voice is projected out across the
fjord the valley and the village of Dale below it's true it's sent this to us
yeah and I know you know I tried this before and actually it didn't work but
maybe that's because everybody in the world is calling this thing now basically
they say if there's no answer it means that well they say it's wind-powered and
self-reliant and recently the weather has been exceptionally calm in Dale and
there has been a massive amount of people calling so if it doesn't pick up
give it a few hours to recuperate and try again let's give it a shot
maybe they also don't let you call in like the middle of the night isn't it
4 5 a.m. now I imagine that would be kind of annoying to the people in Dale
but maybe they're getting some kind of subsidy for this but if if we do get
through we'll say something comforting to the people in the village down there
yeah let's see what we hear is a landline or a cell phone we don't know
Bernie we're listening now
you sure you dialed the number pretty sure I don't hear anything try again
yeah maybe you should because I'm not supposed to take that long all right
sorry about that folks sometimes the phones don't work like they should we're
calling the tele megaphone somewhere I know why I'm speaking quietly it's like
I'm trying to not wake up the people of Dale Norway but they they say a
telemegaphone is a tall loudspeaker a loudspeaker sculpture that automatically
answers incorrect phone calls are slot of telephone and it I think it in English
for a blickeh the subscriber has turned off the phone or it's not available at
the moment please try again later yeah that would indicate indicate that this
this might be some kind of a cell phone service that's that's actually the
recording I got earlier so yeah maybe at night they do turn it off so we can try
in the daytime unfortunately we're not on but they say telemegaphones like I
said are tall loudspeaker sculptures that automatically answer incoming phone
calls and project the sound the callers voice into the immediate surroundings
they say this like telemegaphones are common they exist all over the world I've
never heard of a telemegaphone before this week has anyone ever experienced
this Emmanuel yes I just used Google to search for a telemegaphone and there's a
lot of interesting pictures both this and other telemegaphones around the
world and they're they're pretty interesting photos now who runs a
telemegaphone and why what kind of people would do this here it says it's
generously supported by Nordic culture point unsworn industries and NKD Nordic
Artists Center in Dale and it lists a whole bunch of Nordic names that I
can't pronounce and now are you say there are other ones yeah there's a well
maybe these aren't pictures of maybe these are all pictures of the same one
down there no these actually these are all pictures of of them building it and
setting it up uh-huh if you just use Google to search or some other search
well if you could use Google just to tell us if there's a single other
telemegaphone anywhere in the planet I just be kind of curious as to whether
this is just something new or something that has existed for a while and I don't
think it's a bad idea I think it's it's it's a fine idea I'd love to have my
voice transmitted into the streets of say Queens or something like that but
somehow I don't think that's very realistic all right well let us know if
you find something yes keep looking now I want to tell folks about a special
benefit taking place tomorrow here in New York City for the comic book legal
defense fund yes last I heard there were still some tickets left for the benefit
gig in New York City with DJ spooky all proceeds going to the comic book legal
defense fund and Cory Doctorow will be appearing there as well as I mentioned
DJ spooky and they'll be benefiting the comic book legal defense fund following
their respective presentations the two will take the stage together for an open
forum discussion about their work and the future present each eloquently
addresses across different media Cory Doctorow will read and discuss the
issues behind his best-selling young adult novel little brother addressing
internet and government security censorship and civil liberties in a
post 9-11 near-future atmosphere little brother tackles timely issues while
telling a story that's smart funny and jam-packed with pop culture nuggets so
all kinds of fun things will be happening there and the comic book legal
defense fund sounds like a worthy worthy cause why do comic books need legal
defense they get censored a lot by all kinds of people governments school
districts you name it complex can be seen as a very subversive so many times
yes Bernie I found some information that you're looking for okay actually let me
just finish giving the information for this people are interested is taking
place at the Helen Mills theater and it's kind of dark for me to read the
actual address of that but if you go to a boing boing net and type in comic book
legal defense fund you'll find all the information about that and that's taking
place tomorrow 730 p.m. Helen Mills theater here in New York City I go ahead
Bernie according to Public Radio International's radio program of the
world who did a report on the story they interviewed a telemegaphone designer
Eric Sunderline who says he hopes the idea will catch on and he's quoted as
saying yeah we're thinking about a lot of different locations Times Square in
New York could be interesting maybe one on the moon end quote but he says
currently the only telemegaphone is in Dale Norway and it's open for calls days
and night I guess unless the wind isn't blowing it says here that local
politicians have called in as have some late-night drunken revelers and another
caller sang lullabies and one local farmer says he's considering using the
telemegaphone to call in the cows call in the cows so I won't go to his farm
they'll go to the telemegaphone all right well you know when they suggest
putting it on the moon I have to wonder if they're being serious here who's
gonna hear it on the moon there's no I mean it's gonna be very hard to hear
something first of all no people second of all no air but put it in the ground
you have to put your ear to the ground why not just aim it into space if you
call a telemegaphone in the forest and there's nobody there yeah well I guess
we found that out tonight didn't even pick up okay an update on the the story
of the three Massachusetts Institute of Technology students they were you might
have heard they were barred by a court order from discussing subway card
vulnerabilities well apparently they're now free to say what they want in a
ruling certain to be cheered by computer researchers a federal judge here Tuesday
that's here being in Boston let the 10-day old gag order expire US District
Judge George O'Toole jr. refused to grant a preliminary injunction requested by the
Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority that would have blocked the
students from talking about their findings until January 1st 2009 the MBTA
is requested injunction would have replaced a temporary restraining order
granted during the DEFCON hacker conference which automatically expires
on Tuesday under federal court rules so apparently they had planned the MIT
students plan to make a presentation at DEFCON on security vulnerabilities in
the Massachusetts Transit Authority's electronic card and ticketing system and
I mean I've heard things like this so many times about New York City and other
places and it's not a big deal about it but apparently Boston they really freaked
out about this Boston's the city of freaking out over technology remember
the yeah the Aqua Teen Hunger Force thing I mean they really went nuts over
that a different federal judge who was on duty that weekend blocked the
presentation after MBTA sued the students and MIT so now it's been lifted
but of course the conference is over and the icing on the cake they say that the
students have no intention of releasing the information that will specifically
give information on how exactly this vulnerability works my readings right
Bernie that's that's what I read as well so apparently the Boston government's
attempt of or maybe the Mass Transit Agency is attempted prior restraint was
successful even though even though a judge ruled it was a it was improper or
had no no merit the prior restraint was just so successful because the students
said they're not gonna release the 30-page document now yeah you see
that's the kind of thing I it's like self-censorship in a way because you've
been kind of cowed into not being too aggressive as far as giving out
information if there is security vulnerabilities the specifics should be
known and if you're a nice person yes alert the company beforehand but that
doesn't mean you should ever silence yourself or you know it's it's basically
security through obscurity and that we find never works and of course they
they achieved the one goal they were they wanted to which is to not get it
revealed at this high-profile conference right right but there's other
conferences coming up there's other conferences there's a tour con coming up
in San Diego in late September maybe they could present it there if they of
course if they want to send it into the magazine would be happy to print it and
get all kinds of people angry yes a team presentations already online I saw the
PDF of it's very interesting the whole presentation I doubt the whole thing is
online they have to us like I believe like something like 30 slides not the
only the slide presentation was put on slide presentation but not the actual
specifics as to what the security holes were and I'd really like to know and I'm
sure it'd be very educational people to see just how how exactly how exactly
people would take advantage of such a system so yeah that's I guess that's a
bit of I don't know what you say good news or bad news I think it's bad news
because the the MTBA the Mass Transit Authority of Boston succeeded in prior
restraint and apparently scared these students enough through legal action to
release their information they researched well hopefully there'll be
updates on this hopefully the information will get out and we'll learn
more information about that okay now getting back to our lead story tonight
the detaining of the graffiti research lab member James Powderly we have on
the phone with us James's wife Michelle Kempner speaking to us I believe from
Brooklyn Michelle you there yeah well first of all all of our thoughts are
with James right now if we've all met him at one point or another and he's he's
done wonderful things for the hope conferences over the years what's what's
the latest have you gotten any kind of update no actually I've been making a
lot of calls today talking to the State Department and trying to call you know
my representatives my senators and it sounds like nobody really has any
information including whether China actually acknowledges that they have
came well now what information do we have to indicate that he has been
detained I think all of the information comes from the text message and the
Twitter message students for free Tibet received and and that said what there
was a there was a Twitter message it said detained since 3 a.m. so that's
what we're setting the time from when you know that now we know James has been
detained for over 48 hours okay and then later I believe there is a text message
from somebody else that said there's eight of us here we're all okay but that
now was probably over 24 hours ago and have any of those other eight people been
heard from since yes five of them were put on a plane and were able to call and
say we're on a plane and apparently I also the State Department I believe
says that there was an acknowledgement of those five people being deported now
have any of those people been able to speak about what might have happened to
James did they see him did they hear any kind of news as far as I can tell and
it's sort of weird you know being his wife and having like the least
information it feels like but as far as I can tell they never saw him directly
but they may have heard from other people who saw him so it's all really
big and not concrete uh-huh now do you know much about the project that he was
involved in over in Beijing well from what I know you know from being familiar
with graffiti research lab they're really it is their mission statement
that they're dedicated to providing open source tools you know for protesters and
activists and that's basically what James was doing the same thing he always
does he was providing a tool which was the new laser stencil and then he went
with them to help them use it and they hadn't actually used it yet yeah the
reports are that he was detained before it was actually turned on so nothing
actually happened but he was detained all the same now what what what do you
plan on doing next you say you've tried to contact your elected if it have they
been responsive elected officials so far it's not been that responsive but I
guess I'm learning the ropes and it's a little more useful to contact the
representatives in their DC offices so now units for free Tibet have been
really helping me with getting in contact but then by the time I got
through to anyone it was the end of the day I think their offices were already
I see now how long had James planned on staying over in Beijing for the entire
Olympics or beyond that I know it's for the last week of the Olympics so one
week okay I imagine that he must have known that he might be stepping into a
touchy situation working with students for the bed and being the the activist
that he is did he have much concern that he might be detained when he went over
there you know I'm really not sure how much you know what James was worried
about I just know that it's really his overarching mission to not back down
from you know providing these tools and helping protesters get their word out so
so it's hard for me to say I just know it's really about that like providing
this laser stencil to SFP and allowing them to make a flash you know what
in a big way well has this story gotten I know it's a front page on boring boring
and various other alternative media outlets but has this gotten much in the
way of mainstream press attention well there was a New York Times article I
think that all the wire services ran an article I think it's starting to get
picked up it is interesting that the James and I are very active in the
blogosphere I'm a professional blogger so it's kind of funny like fighting to
get a story out there but I do really appreciate every news story well that of
course at least my next question what what can our listeners do to to help I
mean she's definitely uncharted territory for me but I think the best
thing is to get attention you know and get the news and if you know anyone who
works for an elected official you know an elected official you know just to
spread the word and James isn't the only person I know he's detained with at
least two other people who also are in the same boat who hadn't done anything I
think they're just like bloggers so you know we need to make sure they release
them right well of course it's not about actually doing something it's about what
you might be able to do it's that fear the authorities have of people that
might be able to inspire others and James certainly has that ability of
inspiring people to get involved and build things and just have fun while
expressing a serious message at the same time I remember in Vienna last year
playing with the graffiti the laser graffiti on the side of a building and
it was just the coolest thing ever of course you know nobody in Vienna cared
but I imagine if you did something like that in Beijing you'd have plainclothes
cops on you very quickly but it's just it's it's more the spirit of of this
kind of adventure and activism and free speech that that JRL and James they're
all about that and of course doesn't necessarily mesh with what's going on in
China right now well Michelle of course we wish you the best there's any kind of
website or address or anything you want to give out well we've been we started
posting updates to one of James's other initiatives called the fat lab and the
address is the letter F as in Frank five times dot AT so F F F F F dot AT so
we'll probably be using that as a platform if we find anything to post
information okay that's that's five F's dot 80 yeah and that sounds like that's
in Austria as well so that's that's that's kind of cool well you know I I'm
sure he'll be fine and I'm sure in a week we'll have good news and maybe he'll
be back home or something like that but when you do hear from him please give
him our best and we look forward to to seeing him back here in New York safe
and sound all right thanks very much for for speaking with us thank you
and Michelle Kempner wife of James Powderly who has been detained by
Chinese authorities for being involved in the laser stencil art project with
students for a free Tibet boy pretty pretty heavy stuff me and I mean lots of
people are being arrested Chinese people too oh yeah definitely all over the
place but you can sometimes be in the front row I guess to to get the story
out and you know this is just something I think we'll be seeing in this country
in the next couple of weeks as well as the convention start again can you
believe it's been four years since the convention in New York my god that time
has gone by quite quite fast and we'll be hearing similar stories out of Denver
and out of st. Paul as well okay what else do we have we're gonna be taking
phone calls two and two two zero nine two nine hundred and just a little bit
we have that what's the story that's been passed around about all these
people on the terror watch list including airline captains and children
and lawyers what's what's what's going on there Mike well they're mostly named
James Robinson it seems James Robinson so if your name is James Robinson yeah
so there may actually be mayor may not actually be a terrorist called James
Robinson but it's a fairly common name so other people who are James Robinson
are getting trapped up in this thing as well it's a really big tip to James a
real James Robinson the terrorists that were onto him and maybe he'll change his
name well I mean this this one guy he's a retired Air National Guard general and
he's a commercial pilot for a major airline who flies passengers around the
country that sounds suspicious it is because he has a lot of power people
trust him you know but and then there's another James Robinson who's eight years
old all right don't necessarily dismiss that because you know out of the mouths
of babes you know the children look so innocent what's in the list when he was
five he's gonna listen see was fine he was fine it's been a terrible child yeah
seriously for that long herbal terrorist it's all the same Wow but you know some
of these Robinsons have figured out how to get around the terrorist watch list
apparently the lawyer I bet the lawyer figured I don't know about the lawyer
the lawyer doesn't I don't think I've ever known a James Robinson I have to
report them if I do probably that might be the one that might be anything
suspicious so that so they the eight-year-old who apparently flies a
lot for an eight-year-old the mother has figured out that if she books the
son as Jay Pierce Robinson then then he can go through you hear that James
Robinson the terrorist all you have to do his first initial the captain has
come up with an even easier solution he books himself as Jim Robinson you know
he's the captain wait it's a captain the guy who actually flies the plane it was
at the pilot they're all yes okay well when I was on a boat going across the
Pacific Ocean we had a captain but then when we were docking this guy came on a
Coast Guard boat jumped on board the freighter and he was the pilot and he's
the guy who actually steered the ship into port the captain pretty much just
entertained the two passengers and and played his music loud well on an
airplane there's a lot less jumping aboard mid voyage yeah I've noticed that
Wow so the thing is this list has 400,000 people on it 400 that's according
to the government the ACLU says there's a million but either way if there were
actually 400,000 evildoers in this country we'd be in a lot more trouble
than a than a watch list could fix well how do you define evil and how do you
define doing it's apparently totally undefined and there's no way to know how
you got on the list or even if you're on the list or how to get off it well
that's helpful isn't it okay so if you have a friend named James Robinson this
is a good way to have fun at the airport just see what happens I guess
offer to pay for a trip somewhere for him and don't worry we're getting one of
those in New York to what a James Robinson no yes one of those two maybe
no they want to the police in New York want to start watching keeping records
of all the vehicles that pass through Manhattan Oh the Ring of Steel yeah
that's that's been that's been ongoing for a little while I understand there
have been some more trips to London to look at how they do it over there they
they stare in awe at these at the surveillance state they have over in the
UK I'm starting to see a lot more of the license plate readers in the back of
cop cars go around now yeah especially down in the downtown Wall Street area
uh-huh when are they going to incorporate the license plate readers
with the Google cameras so that everything's just constantly in a state
of surveillance you know where everybody is at all times they just sort of
integrate the systems seriously if they have to do this the least they could do
is get some money for transit out of it but they canceled that yeah I just I
just want the people to notice who the people who oppose the congestion
charging on the privacy grounds to know that their privacy is still not protected
and we don't even get any transit they can do congestion charging without the
privacy issues they could yeah that's what we should push for okay we had a
lot of response to guess what the the topic of postal keys and we did a little
bit more research on this we talked last week dot red and I did a little bit of
looking around a few weeks ago we noticed that the the mailman mail lady
actually was getting into all these buildings we asked her how she was doing
it she has a special key that opens well basically we didn't know what the
special key did whether it opened the door or whether it opened something else
and what a bunch of people wrote in to tell us was that keys like that and
it's nothing new here actually they open a box called a key keeper that contained
the key to the building the mail carrier then takes out the key in the box opens
the door drops the mail and then hopefully returns the key to the box
thanks Dan for that information see what we have here Lynn wrote in to say
Milwaukee there's a door access system called a Knox box KNOX in that box about
the size of a double fist is a key to the outside door or a master key
depending on the circumstances the box is black and has a door on the front
with its own access keyhole it also has a strip of reflecting tape red and white
on it we have one on my condo apartment and have had so for about 15 years the
box is set into the brick wall the fire department emergency squad has the
access key and so far as I know has the only access copies of this Knox box can
be seen around here nearly every large building in the county and again that's
from Lynn in in Shorewood Wisconsin we looked around a little bit and what we
noticed that there are some that look a little bit different than others yeah
that's one of the interesting things I noticed is that all these people who
write in they can quite easily describe their system and wherever they live in
very concrete terms we had problems with that some were in boxes some didn't look
like get opened others were on the doors well some were just mounted on the bricks
obviously yeah there wasn't a box behind that I don't think they dug a crater in
the brick to destroy the key that's one of them there was one of them there's a
box instead of a brick right but on on some of the some of the other ones
especially the newer buildings I think it was just integrated into the door
buzzer system so you turn the key and the door buzzes open just like it would
if somebody pressed a button on the other end here's another letter
regarding your discussion about how postal workers get into buildings to
deliver mail I've been curious about this too in my apartment in San Francisco
which was a nice shiny renovated building there was a lock on the wall
outside the building that said postal lock when the postal worker puts the key
in it buzzed them in the same way the intercom does with the electromagnetic
latch system here in Boston my building also has a postal lock on the wall this
one is labeled with a USPS barcode and the words managed service point I saw
the postal worker one day so I discovered how this works the lock is
just for a little box again that slides out of the wall and inside is the key to
the building essentially I guess this means there's one special key for the
block maybe the neighborhood maybe the city or the entire world it gains you
access to many buildings like this thanks Lex for sending in that
information go ahead Bernie I see a problem with this and that is anyone
could find out who who makes these boxes with the with the universal lock at
least in a particular city and say that hey I have an apartment building or I'm
building an apartment building and we need to put one of these on the side of
our building how do we buy the box and then you buy the box and then any
competent lock hacker could can take a lock and impression a key for it or
built make a blank machine a blanket and an impression it so it would seem to be
not terribly difficult to make a key for one of these wherever you are well we
know many competent people that have an interest in locks so I'm beginning to
even wonder if it's possible and by the way let me go out the phone number we
taking phone calls two one two two zero nine two nine hundred if it's possible
for maybe somebody that we know to design for educational purposes a key
that would actually go into that and thereby somehow incredibly have access
to every building in the city at least or at least we can find out how big an
area this stretches for that's that's the next question I have is there a
unique key for just every postal carrier is there one for every block is there
one for the entire city and what happens and it must have happened in the past
codes maybe when that key gets compromised what do they just you know
pretend that maybe it didn't happen I'd like to know of course we might get a
court order saying we're not allowed to talk about this but I intend to ask
anyway two one two two zero nine two nine hundred let's take some phone calls
see who was out there and good evening that's me
buildings that have these where you instead of bumping a buzzer you enter a
number like a two-digit number or you better push a button and they bring
their actual yeah that's that's I know rebel that's a that's a touchtone
system and they're very common in various parts of especially in
California and there were some here in New York you enter a touchtone
combination and sometimes you even hear that phone number being dialed as in
freedom downtime and that's famous scene where you hear their phone number being
dialed with touchtones it doesn't matter if the phone number is unlisted it dials
their actual phone number and their phone rings and they have to pick push a
certain button that buzzes the door what's fun about that is if you forward
your phone to somebody else you can let people in from anywhere in the country
if they call you thanks for that information rebel and how you always
managed to be the first caller you also if you have a cell phone which a lot of
people do I do have a cell you can be buzzing people in from anywhere my
brother my brother has that you call him it doesn't matter if he's home he can
buzz you in but what if I was to forward your brother's phone to my phone then
I'd have the authority over who gets into his building you could just steal
his phone if that's the way I could do that I could do that but I'm just saying
it's it's a lot easier to to forward somebody's number without without any
kind of permission just by talking to the phone company and convincing them
that you're somebody you're not wouldn't even be even easier just to pick the
lock that too but maybe you're not in the same city you know it's kind of cool
to break into a building when you're on the other side of the continent it's
quite possible to do that okay I once let somebody's opened up a door for a
UPS man in Philadelphia because somebody lost control of their phone and
they got forwarded to me somehow true story good evening you're on off the
hook oh hi there hi what's on your arm I called up a couple of weeks ago to let
you know that I was filing a public service complaint because of the way I
was getting charged every time I try to call WBA I oh you mean that the fact
that the phone gets hung up or you have to recall yeah when you well when you
every it turns out with BAI and only BAI this is according to the text at
Verizon who I like to refer to as Verizon I'm glad you got it after I
called the last time right um they say that it's the problem at WBA is in so
it's yet another way WBA is screwed up that every time you get timed out when
you're calling in and the thing is that's insidious about it is if you're
calling from the city you don't get an itemized bill so you get all these one
minute charge are you saying you actually get charged every time you call
and when you get caught calling BAI and you get timed out we need to be picked
up instead of doing like a nor you know BAI has its own centrax or whatever the
yeah it is that it's using it's defective according to the Public
Service Commission well I don't doubt that I don't doubt our phone system is
defective for a number of reasons but let me just point out that if you call
any number and it just keeps ringing and ringing and ringing it's not going to
ring for more than 20 20 rings unless maybe you're local to that exchange and
maybe you'll get it going on for longer used to be forever may I ask how is it
that you're calling us what what company are you using to reach us landline by a
Verizon long-distance long what city are you in Woodstock Woodstock I don't know
if it would be different if you're calling from New York City using
Verizon I don't have to be different if you used a different long-distance
company but I do know that this is something that changed I think when when
companies started converting to digital back in the electromechanical days you
were able to just ring a phone you could ring a phone for an entire weekend and
you didn't get charged if nobody picked up but now they say no revenues being
produced after 20 rings disconnect I've tested this with other people in New
York City and said let let it ring and let me get timed out I don't get
charged it only happens to WBA yeah you should never get charged that is
something that I get a long list of one minute charges in like one minute
sequences and this is all on a public service commission says it's WBA okay
this is on a Verizon bill you're saying yeah interesting and now what happens
when you call and it just keeps ringing what happens when it stops ringing it
goes to circuit busy like everything else and that's why I filed the Public
Service Commission because since it goes to circuit busy it sounds like the
network timing me out right but it isn't it's something at WBA I that's giving
you a certain amount of time and by the way that time varies it's not always 20
rings when I tried to call you now I just got charged 10 cents by getting a
glorious one ring I assume that's going into the defective line you've got there
right once went into what I think is that defective line and it charged me
Wow okay well just add this to the list of things that are wrong with our phone
system I yeah it should be junk yeah you know I if anybody has a solution for us
that won't cost Norman a leg maybe somebody could go to the junkyard and
pull out the Michael phone system that was thrown away and you know thrown in
the garbage yeah well work so beautifully I don't know if beautifully
is the right word but it definitely worked better and a lot of things in the
old days work better but yeah we definitely are in need of a good system
for one thing what happens is this is something only the host at radio shows
here now we have all the phones ringing they light up on little buttons but they
move so let's say line 7 is ringing now and I push line 7 well line 7 has
already hopped over to line 3 it doesn't even go in order it goes in
random order and if I hit line 7 even though line 7 is still flashing that
calls already moved on and that's why I get a dial tone sometimes so there's all
sorts of problems with this system and I just go on for another hour about this
so yeah if anybody out there has suggestions on a better system we could
have that won't cost an arm and a leg we'd like to know about it thanks thanks
for that information though okay and good evening you're on off the hook
greetings I'm just to add to the previous conversation I was calling from
a T-Mobile 443 area code and it would time out after about ten seconds
although I wouldn't get a busy signal just go dead Wow I would still be
connected so says the cell phone and I've just called you on this line which
is a 848 area code on through sprint uh-huh but regardless it's uh yeah it's
it's gotten really difficult to connect these days so what's on your mind other
than that if you will humor me I meant to call him last show but I have two
stories about Falkland Island war about what the Falkland Islands war the
Falkland Islands war whether or not you're kind of late for that but okay
well go ahead these two stories along with many others were in a book that
unfortunately is out of print called the devouring fungus the title comes from a
fungus that was growing on computer but anyway the the two stories are when the
British Tornadoes went across the equator to fight the war British
Tornadoes yes the planes okay as they crossed over the equator the
navigational software decided because they were heading south or for whatever
reason they decided to down I'm sorry I don't think this is our fault but you're
you're chopping in and out so I think you're on a cell phone yeah I think I'm
getting another call but regardless call waiting that's what that is okay could
you repeat that sentence yes sorry as the British Tornadoes were en route to
the Falkland Islands the navigational software saw fit as it crossed the
equator to flip the plane upside down well that's that's definitely an
interesting and humorous story yeah many people can appreciate the other
interesting thing mm-hmm was the the whatever the British radar detection
software because Argentina had bought Exocet missiles from France when the
Exocet missiles were fired against the British Tornadoes they refused to
identify them as a threat since France is a friend and the French missile it
couldn't be possibly aimed at us so the Tornadoes refused to target the French
missiles I see so the machines I guess know better all right listen thanks
thanks for the information it's it's very useful to know these things and
redhack you've been doing some research while that calls in progress what did
you learn so I called twice WBAI the first time I had rang 21 times I'm
actually calling right now and and then it just went dead uh-huh the second time
once it only rang once and then went dead as you can hear my cell phone is
currently ringing the we have a strange sounding ring doesn't it sound weird
let's listen carefully like maybe it's connecting to the phone line and then
just well this it's not a normal ring it's a little shorter and it's a
different cadence yeah it's kind of random time that it comes back it's not
let's just listen to the BAI ring we never get to do this over the radio
station it's one of those exciting radio you'll ever hear okay I haven't
been counting the number of rings but it's been going for a little while we
caught we could call ourselves from the front here's the problem if I pick up
I'm gonna get myself probably on one of those lines it's like Russian roulette
if I pick the wrong line then this experiment has been for naught how long
did it go for you 21 20 but how long in time that was like a minute or two yeah
okay this has been going for about a minute so any second now this is going
to go to a reorder so we can hear the exact sound and we'll be able to tell
there won't be a sound well there'll be a reorder fast busy no no sound it just
disconnects yeah wow that's kind of sobering to know that would be kind of
funny and the joke would be on me if it never hung up and we just did this for
the rest of the show all right you see this is on off the hook we try to get to
the bottom of technological issues and this is really the only way we can find
out what the problem is or at least start the research it doesn't sound like
a phone company ring that's true and that's something I complain about I like
for rings to sound different so this at least in that our phone sounds a little
bit different than others oh yeah well that is nice but oh yeah oh that's my
phone doing that I'm sorry that's the GSM phone does that oh yeah just got our
hopes up for nothing but it did that because it got disconnected but that
also tells us that when the reorder happened I wasn't disconnected because
otherwise I would have gotten that right away I when I called twice I just got
try one more time because I bet you this time it lonely well I think what why
don't we try calling something else that we know a ring for it see that's the
problem how do you find a phone that rings forever without something picking
up my phone yeah a voicemail will pick up eventually megaphone that will tell
megaphone picks up with a Norwegian recording yes it's very difficult to
find things that don't pick up so the way to really test this is to call other
things see what happens to them compare them to be AI and I don't know hopefully
we'll find a solution go ahead Bernie I have a suggestion if you could somehow
obtain the list of the numbers on WBA eyes incoming hunt group and then call
each of those numbers individually and see which one just rings once and hangs
up or whatever these people were complaining about I don't have
translatable numbers though this is a digital switch I'm not sure if it works
that way well you can always ask and find out yeah I'll ask that'll be a way
to find out you think somebody here knows the answer to that question I
don't think so who maintains that system perhaps the vendor who provided the
system and maintains it would know I think the vendor who provided that
system is well on the way to a I don't think anyone means or an island or
something laughing all the way to the bank yeah I think I laughed at the bank
a long time ago okay let's see if we can squeeze in a
couple more phone calls hopefully not complaining about the phone system oh
that's related I guess let's take another one and good evening you're all
right this is starting to get not funny good evening you're on off the hook yes
you can live your yeah you know I prefer the dial tone rebel I really do good
evening you're on off the hook speak up please I'm calling about the guy coming
aboard the ship to take control the guy coming aboard the ship when you were
talking about the friendship yeah oh yeah yeah yeah the pilot forgot about
that for former merchant seaman the ship sailing back and forth across the ocean
mm-hmm but every different port will have a harbor pilot who's got knowledge
of the local conditions so he comes aboard and takes control but the captain
of the ship legally still has responsibility so if the if the harbor
pilot puts the ship up on the rocks the captain should have known better and
he's responsible I see now can the captain discipline the pilot or can the
pilot discipline the captain who's higher up that is beyond me okay I just
wanted you have to got into an argument who would who would prevail there would
be a court of inquiry and Admiralty law I guess okay justice on the high seas
something like that yeah all right yeah I've seen I've seen any number of pilots
come aboard and as a matter of fact steered under a pilot going through the
Panama Canal Wow that sounds like an adventure right there it was but enjoy
the show thanks I thought you'd enjoy all right thanks thanks for the
information and further proof that BAI listeners know everything if you put
them all together in a single place which I guess this show is the closest
thing to okay that's it for us and we're we're out of here for another couple of
weeks we're not gonna be here next week or the week after that what you'll hear
instead is alternative coverage of the Democratic Convention and then the
Republican Convention and I recommend listening to Pacifica's coverage over
the main networks because you'll hear things you'll never hear there you'll
hear all kinds of other people speaking and all kinds of other perspectives
that's what it's all about in the meantime though you can write to us at
OTH at 2600.com and of course we also want to hear people's ideas for closing
songs I have to do with telephones we're going to close tonight with something
from Lou Reed from 1972 that probably very few people have ever heard we'll
see you in three weeks good night
am I even home did you see what she did to him did you hear what they said just
a New York conversation rattling in my head oh my and what shall we wear oh my
and who really cares just a New York conversation gossip all of the time did
you hear who did what to whom happens all the time who has touched and who has
dabbled here in the city of shows openings closings bed repartee
everybody knows oh how sad and why do we call oh I'm glad to hear from you all I
am calling yes I'm calling just to speak to you for I know this night will kill
me if I can't be with you if I can't be with you