Come on neighbors, let's get wise.
So, the plaster is falling, the paint is peeling, the plumbing is leaking, the heat and hot water keep cutting off,
the elevator keeps breaking down, and the landlord won't return your calls?
But the rent keeps going up, and up, and up?
Find out what you can do about it.
Tune in to Housing Notebook, Mondays at 8 p.m.
Reactionary landlord.
And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
The time is 7 o'clock. Time once again for Off The Hook.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
We couldn't get much worse, but if they could they would.
Bum diddly bum for the best, expect the worst.
I hope that's understood. Bum diddly bum!
Bum diddly bum!
Bum diddly bum!
Bum diddly bum!
Bum diddly bum!
Bum diddly bum!
Bum diddly bum!
Bum diddly bum!
And getting fed by the program is Off The Hook.
Manuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening.
Joined tonight by Mike.
Hi.
Dot Rhett.
Hey, hello.
Rob T. Firefly.
Good evening.
Voltaire.
Hi there.
Gus.
Oh, hi.
And Bernie S. down in Philadelphia.
Greetings from Philadelphia.
And we come to you every Wednesday at this time from 7 to 8 p.m.
talking about issues of technology and privacy
and all sorts of other fun, delightful things like that.
Mike, I believe you had an announcement you wanted to kick things off with.
Go ahead.
Yes, this weekend in Cambridge, Massachusetts
is the Free Software Foundation's annual conference.
It's called Libre Planet.
And if you're in the area, you should go.
The website is fsf.org slash conference.
Okay.
So usually we have the announcements at the end,
but today we decided to have them at the beginning
just to mix it up a little bit and try something different.
Interesting story.
I believe, Bernie, you posted this one.
I love the headline,
Robots Chase Aliens Through Subterranean Tubes.
I couldn't resist slightly rephrasing the headline.
All right, so you wrote that headline,
but that's not how it actually showed up.
No, no, no.
This is a story about immigration and customs enforcement officials
apparently using remote-controlled robots,
these are apparently not autonomous robots,
to explore tunnels, drainage tubes
that are around the border areas between Mexico and the United States
to look for people who would try to smuggle themselves
and other things from Mexico to the U.S. through these tunnels.
And they run these robots through there,
which have video cameras,
which apparently have wireless TV transmitters on them.
And they spotted some undocumented individuals
and they were trying to follow them through the tunnels
with these robots unsuccessfully.
The people got away.
We're talking about aliens, we're talking about robots,
we're talking about tunnels.
I mean, it's just too tempting not to phrase this
as robots chase aliens through subterranean tubes.
Well, technically it's true.
That's exactly what's going on,
but it is kind of science fiction-y and kind of scary.
And I guess it sort of ties into a bunch of scary science fiction-y type things
that we have on tap this week.
How about this one?
This is a real headline, came from CNN.
Star Wars scientists create laser gun to kill mosquitoes.
Yeah, here it is.
Scientists in the U.S. are developing a laser gun
that could kill millions of mosquitoes in minutes.
The laser, which has been dubbed a weapon of mosquito destruction,
fires at mosquitoes once it detects the audio frequency
created by the beating of its wings.
Yeah, I'm not making this up.
The laser beam then destroys the mosquito,
burning it on the spot.
Developed by some of the astrophysicists,
who seem to have a lot of free time on their hands,
involved in what was known as the Star Wars anti-missile programs
during the Cold War.
They just like to blow up things.
The project is meant to prevent the spread of malaria.
See, it's got good to it.
So they determined it to be kind of impossible to win a nuclear war.
Instead, they're focusing on mosquitoes.
Yeah, the second enemy, mosquitoes.
It's kind of like the anti-Star Wars,
where in the Star Wars films the first one is good
and then the sequels are bad.
But in this one, in the Star Wars weapon system,
the original one didn't work,
and now the sequel is not going to work either.
Yeah, I guess so.
Hopefully they won't have a bunch of really mediocre ones afterwards
that are even worse.
But anyway, malaria, in case you don't know,
it's a life-threatening, it's not a country,
it's a life-threatening disease caused by,
someone's looking at a map,
caused by parasites that are transmitted to people
from the bites of female mosquitoes.
It's particularly prevalent in tropical and subtropical regions of the world,
kills an African child every 30 seconds,
according to the World Health Organization.
There are an estimated 300 million acute cases of malaria each year globally,
resulting in more than 1 million deaths.
So therefore, this laser gun seems like a really nice thing.
One of the scientists involved says,
there is no such thing as a good mosquito.
There's nothing that feeds exclusively on them.
No one would miss mosquitoes.
There's something about that,
there's something about that blanket statement that bothers me.
Well, nobody would miss mosquitoes.
You have to hope that the laser is not going to miss mosquitoes in this particular case.
But like, isn't it more efficient and easier to kill mosquito larva?
They move a lot slower, from my understanding.
So like, why are we not working on killing mosquito larva?
Well, they don't beat their wings, so you can't hear them.
So you can't do cool things with lasers to them?
I don't think so.
Yeah, I'm sure they're working on it.
Yeah, they're working on developing.
Yes, Rob.
So malaria is bad for you, I understand that.
But how good for you is breathing millions of vaporized mosquito corpses?
Yeah, they don't address that issue either.
But in any case, this guy adds,
the laser is able to distinguish between mosquitoes that go after people
and those that aren't dangerous.
What remains to be seen is how precise we can get.
This guy adds that the other insects would not be affected by the laser's beam,
in case anyone's concerned about that.
The lasers could be mounted on lamppost-type poles
and put around the circumference of villages
to create a kind of fence against mosquitoes.
A mosquito-proof fence.
This actually, this research is commissioned by Intellectual Ventures.
Does anybody know who Intellectual Ventures is?
A Washington, US-based company, Washington State-based company
that was founded by Nathan Mivvold,
a former Microsoft Corporation executive.
His previous boss, Bill Gates, funded the research
and asked Mivvold to look into new ways of combating malaria.
And boy, did he find one.
So he worked for Microsoft.
He's familiar with bugs.
Yeah, very good.
Sorry.
Yes.
Now, continuing with the scary science fiction-y vein of tonight's show,
how about this?
A Finnish computer programmer who lost one of his fingers in a motorcycle accident
has made himself a prosthetic replacement with a USB drive attached.
I'm not going to make it through this story.
Jerry Jalava uses the two-gigabyte memory stick
accessed by peeling back the nail
to store photos, movies, and programs.
The finger is not permanently attached to his hand,
so it can be easily left plugged into a computer when in use,
or when not in use, depending on how you look at it.
Mr. Jalava says he is already thinking about upgrading the finger
to include more storage and wireless technology.
I'm planning to use another prosthetic as a shell for the next version,
which will have removable fingertip and RFID tag, he wrote on his blog,
which you can read at protoblogger.net.
Of course, none of that is spelled the way it sounds.
P-R-O-T-O-B-L-O-G-R dot N-E-T.
Half of Mr. Jalava's left ring finger had to be amputated last summer
after he crashed into a deer while riding his motorbike near Helsinki.
Best thing that ever happened to him, I guess.
He says he was inspired to create the unique storage device
when doctors treating him joked that he should have a USB finger drive
after finding out he was a software developer.
You know, I think those guys should get a piece of whatever profits
he makes out of this ridiculous...
I don't think there's any profits, Emmanuel.
When he starts developing this, for all the people that chop off their fingers
in hopes of, like, becoming one with their computers,
I think there will be profits to be had by many.
I hope not.
Emmanuel?
Yes, go ahead, Bernie.
It just brings a whole new definition to the term digital memory.
Okay, you know, obviously you guys have had these lines
you've been waiting to use for quite some time,
and I'm glad there's an opportunity for that.
But it's time for us to move into our next story.
Filmmaker turns into iBorg with camera in eye socket.
Oh, my God.
Did you say iBorg?
He's Borg?
No, they said iBorg.
This is from the...
But you read it, so it was in a cube?
This is from the London Times, I believe.
A filmmaker is putting a mini video camera in his prosthetic eye
to record a documentary highlighting the issues of privacy
and surveillance society.
You know, I couldn't think of a better use for a prosthetic eye than to...
Did he lose his eye by hitting a deer as well?
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
Rob Spence says he will secretly record people for his iBorg project
using a tiny camera, battery, and wireless transmitter
hidden inside his false eye.
He's not telling us which one it is.
He is going through the final stages of fitting the camera
with which he will be able to record the same things that he sees
with his good eye,
his muscles around the empty socket moving the camera eyeball
just like his real one.
Onlookers will not be able to tell the difference
between the two eyes from a casual glance
as his prosthetic eye has the same hazel green iris
and the camera shoots through a special transparent pupil.
It will be a way of experiencing life through my eyes.
Mr. Spence is hoping to make a broadcast deal for his documentary.
He's already run into controversy over his plans.
He said people were happy to have surveillance cameras
recording what they did
and were willing to divulge personal details online,
even their location,
but the idea that a cyborg could be recording them
made them very uncomfortable.
So, yeah, you know, would you be uncomfortable
having some guy talking to you,
recording everything that you say and do,
and you don't even know he's doing it?
I think some people told him
he might not ever be able to get a girlfriend again.
Yeah, I guess that's another aspect to all this.
But, wow, in one week,
we're talking about laser guns for mosquitoes,
USB fingers, and cyborgs recording you
when they talk to you.
I'm afraid to come in next week.
I think it's a pretty good idea,
but I'm just a little nervous
that he's already shelling out the ideas
without even, like, implementing the movie at all.
Well, he's looking for distribution first,
and if he gets distribution, he can fund his film.
Smart, actually.
But what's a good idea about this?
What's a good idea?
Tell me the good idea part.
The good idea is that he makes a statement about
if he does it well,
Well, yeah, that's true,
and how people with prosthetic eyes
are violating our privacy.
I guess he could make that statement.
Yes, Bernie?
Yes, Gus?
Actually, Microsoft did have something
that they were working on some years back,
probably 2005 or something,
called My Life Bits,
in which they were planning to make it possible
to record a tremendous amount of your life
all the time,
and they had somebody sort of pilot it
by wearing a camera all the time,
and he did have some sort of security issues,
as I recall.
But, yeah, I mean, it's sort of,
I mean, my question is sort of, like,
why, and is it, I mean, like,
I guess what really gets me is
I'm sort of thinking as a videographer now,
and I'm just like,
do we really have good camera stabilization?
Is it going to be watchable,
or is it going to be, like,
bobbing up and down all the time?
Is that not going to be interesting?
Talk about point-of-view shots, you know,
and I guess we won't have a handheld shot so much.
It'll be a head-held shot.
And I think our heads are pretty stable, relatively.
Well, speak for yourself, but, yeah.
Go ahead, Rob.
It must be interesting for a filmmaker, though.
I mean, do we have to wait
until he loses an ear for him to make talkies, or?
Okay, you know, I've had it with this.
This is enough.
The point of all this is to warn people
that there's all kinds of scary things down the pike.
Yes, Dot Red?
I just want to know if everyone who meets him
has to sign a waiver.
Yeah, you know, all these things we have to worry about
that we never had to worry about before.
It's a good lead-in, though, to this story,
because people didn't realize this either,
but Facebook, yes, my favorite site, Facebook.
Apparently, if you're suing somebody,
Facebook might be usable against you in court,
especially the things you say on it.
Chatting with friends on social networking sites
could have legal implications
and turn Facebook users into their own worst enemies.
In a precedent-setting decision,
a Toronto judge has ordered a man suing
over injuries from a car accident
to answer questions about content on his Facebook page
that is off-limits to the public.
Lawyers for Janice Roman, the defendant in the lawsuit,
believes information posted on John Liddick's
private Facebook site,
quote-unquote private Facebook site,
normally accessible only to his approved friends,
all 6,000 or so of them,
may be relevant to his claim
an accident in Lindsay in 2004
lessened his enjoyment of life.
And I guess what they're trying to do
is prove that he actually is enjoying life
by looking at his pictures
and maybe his various comments about,
oh, how great life is,
or whatever else people say on Facebook
that might be used against him in court.
If you are alleging that as a result of an accident
you have not been able to enjoy life the same way
and there was a photo taken after the accident
showing you skiing or exercising,
that could be relevant,
the civil litigation and intellectual property lawyers said.
What's on Facebook might also matter
in insurance cases or family law cases
where there's a dispute over custody.
Photos, for example,
could reveal something about a parent's living conditions.
What do you think about that, Gus?
I see you nodding your head.
Well, I think I...
Do we also cover a story?
There's some...
I believe there was a case recently
where somebody was served papers over Facebook as well.
Are we covering that story this week at all?
Is this the same story?
It was up on Slashdot.
I think it's a different story.
I think it was...
I feel like it was in Australia,
but I could be wrong.
But that was something where they said...
Well, somebody was suing Facebook.
Someone was suing Facebook
because people said bad things about her.
Was that the case?
No, no, no.
There's a lot of lawsuits going on.
Yeah, and it's sort of, you know,
we're exploring how we're going to use
social networking technology for things like this.
So I think sort of it was decided
that Facebook is only sometimes an appropriate channel
for doing something like that.
I assume it's if you can't serve people papers
some other way as well.
Yes, Rob.
The one major glaring thing I see about this
is that many bloggers do not blog under oath.
It's not illegal to lie on the internet.
I could blog about any number of things
that I didn't really do.
But if I have to sit in a court of law
and give a deposition,
then I'll have to be honest.
But if they're bringing up my Facebook
or my blog or my whatever
as incontrovertible proof that I did something...
So you're saying that you might lie
on your Facebook page about enjoying life.
In actuality, you're not enjoying life,
but they're going to use that against you
as if you were swearing that you are enjoying life.
Yes, indeed.
I mean, I don't use Facebook,
but I'm sure I've blogged...
That you are enjoying life
if you're not using Facebook.
I'm sure I've blogged
sounding like I had a better day
than I did once or twice.
What's the precedent for lying
in other forms of print,
like magazines, for example?
No one's ever told us not to lie.
I sure hope that's not a problem.
I'm assuming there must be precedent
about stuff like that
in terms of using it for
actually evidence in court.
That right.
I'm concerned about the privacy implications
because if you have something up on a website
that you have private only for your friends,
then that does ask some questions about that.
Bernie, any input on this?
Well, any information you put up
can be subpoenaed,
either civilly or by law enforcement agencies,
so it's not a big deal.
This is really just an extension
of what's been going on for decades
with the private investigators
in, for instance, personal injury lawsuits
where the harmed party is spied upon
by the party being sued
to find out whether that person
is really harmed or not.
You follow him around enough days
with a video camera covertly
and you see him running around
jogging and things like that
when he says he has trouble walking,
and that stuff is used in court.
It all comes to court of law
to discredit someone,
so it all comes down to credibility
in court of law.
If you lie on your blog,
they're going to use that in court.
It's like, well, are you lying on...
Does that mean you only lie online?
I mean, are you really an honest person?
The whole point is to impugn the credibility
of the witness,
and that's what this is about.
Now, Kevin has arrived from the street.
Welcome.
How are you doing?
Do you have something on this?
Not particularly.
I'm very flustered right now
as I was rushing to get here,
so I missed most of the story.
Well, sorry to hear that,
but no doubt it'll catch up to you
at some point,
especially if you use Facebook.
Here's something else
that will catch up to you
if you're not careful.
Texting and talking while driving
soon be off limits for teens in Georgia.
I know it's rather a narrow group of people,
but if you're a teenager in Georgia,
don't text and talk.
No, wait.
Don't text.
Hold on a second.
Don't text and drive.
Don't talk and drive.
Don't do either.
Don't drive.
Yeah, stop that.
The House voted 138 to 34 Thursday
to ban drivers under 18
from texting and making calls
on their cell phones
while they are driving.
The measure, which now goes to the Senate,
threatens to slap those
who don't hang up with fines
and even a suspended license.
That's a really awkward sentence.
Georgia could join at least 17 other states
and the District of Columbia
that have passed cell phone restrictions
for teen drivers.
Here in New York,
nobody can talk and drive at the same time
on cell phones.
I don't know about texting.
Can we text?
There's no law.
I hear Bernie crying for you.
I don't think this law says
you can do it if it's hands-free.
I think this is telling teens in Georgia
that this law is inactive.
Teens in Georgia will not be able
to use a cell phone, period.
How in God's name do you text hands-free?
Well, I'm talking about...
You can talk...
Well, they're saying
they're specifically pointing to texting
more than pointing to talking, I think.
But yes, you're right.
I think this goes beyond
the hands-free exception
that we have here in New York.
That seems kind of silly to me
because there have been studies done
that show that talking on a phone
is just about as distracting
as talking to someone
in the passenger seat of your car.
You know, it really depends.
It really depends on
the person's driving ability.
For instance, I find it a lot harder
to text while I'm driving than to talk.
And people seem to think
that it's more polite to text while driving
than talk while driving.
And people will text me
instead of call me.
I wish they would call instead
because it's, you know...
You're typing.
You have to, like,
figure out what you're doing.
And obviously, it's safer
not to do either.
But again, it depends
on your skill level
and it also depends
on traffic conditions.
If you're stuck in a traffic jam...
The only time I ever got a ticket
for using my cell phone
while I was driving
was when we were stopped
on the expressway
because of an accident
and I was telling somebody
I was going to be late.
That's when I got a ticket
because that's when the cop
could see me using my cell phone.
I wasn't moving at all.
So there's all kinds
of variables here.
I don't necessarily think
we need a law every time
there's a possible hazard
in order to tell people
what to do.
And the danger in that
is that people think
everything is safe
unless there's a law
specifically prohibiting
that activity.
So that's what
I'm worried about here.
In this particular case, though,
they're saying that in Georgia,
teenagers will not be allowed
to do that.
And I guess that makes sense
to a degree.
Just the law thing
kind of worries me.
Yes, knock, Kevin.
But isn't an adult
more capable of going over
while texting?
Of course, yeah.
In fact, more capable sometimes.
I don't see the purpose
of this bill.
It's just because, I guess,
teenagers are newer to driving
and perhaps drive
more recklessly.
I'm not saying that,
but some people do.
Insurance companies
certainly say that.
They charge more.
Well, they're also the ones
with more familiarity
with the technology
and they're more likely
to be texting to begin with.
So they're probably trying
to nip this practice
in the bud.
Yes, but they'll probably
be able to text better
than, say, your grandmother.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Can you imagine your grandmother
texting to you
like she did before?
That could be
a real catastrophe.
Yes, Dot Red.
Apologies to her, by the way.
Go ahead.
I don't want to see
her grandmother driving.
Well, I don't...
My grandma's on Facebook, yo.
Yeah.
Personally, you have
against her grandmother.
I didn't mean to bring
that up at all.
Okay, but that's...
I saw somebody texting...
Actually, no, talking
on a bicycle the other day
with no hands
on Avenue B
running through a red light.
What do you think of that?
And there's no law against that.
Living dangerously.
Is it David Byrne
who's been picked up
for bicycle accidents
in the past couple months?
Sorry?
David Byrne.
He's been in bicycle wrecks
in the past couple months,
apparently.
Uh-huh.
One of them, at least.
Is that supposed to make me
feel better?
I don't know.
Okay.
Yes, Mike.
I was going to say,
it's also not clear to me
that people on their
18th birthday
suddenly gain the ability
to text message
and drive at the same time.
It seems very odd.
It's a very traditional thing
to do in the law,
but it doesn't make any sense
to me.
But everything is defined
by age in our country.
You know that.
And when you turn 18,
you can't do that.
Uh, okay.
So, um,
we have some, um,
some additional features
to get to.
Should we just dive into
this right away?
I suppose so.
Yes.
Once again,
it's time for
.gov of the week.
And this week, actually,
um,
it's sort of a mini feature
because, uh,
we don't have
a full-fledged site
to focus on,
just an update
of last week
and, um,
sort of a mini thing
for this week
as well.
So, um,
we're going to be
talking about
a mini thing
for this week as well.
Uh,
last week,
as you recall,
or you may recall,
we focused on
a Y2K page
for children
on our favorite site.
Yeah,
fema.gov.
F-E-M-A dot gov.
FEMA standing for
Federal Emergency
Management Agency.
And we were wondering,
we were wondering
what that scary creature was
on the, uh,
on the page.
Uh,
it looked like
some kind of, uh,
crazy insect type thing.
Uh,
and we,
we got a bunch of,
uh,
a bunch of listeners
wrote in,
uh,
telling us, uh,
that in fact
this was identified
on another part
of the, uh,
of the site.
Um,
in fact,
I'm going to hand this out.
This is, uh,
you can,
you can color in the,
uh,
the face yourself.
Yeah.
Go ahead, Mike.
Do you have some crayons?
I don't have crayons.
No.
Yeah,
I can't bring everything.
Then what good are you?
Yeah.
Uh,
all right,
now,
Kevin,
I'm going to give you
the third part,
but you got to read it
with, you know,
rhythm.
All right.
I'm,
I'm going to read
the first part.
All right.
This is a poem
called
Disaster Connection
Kids to Kids
and it,
it talks about
that,
that creature
which is known
as the
Y2K.
I guess it's a play
on Y2K.
Spelled
W-Y-T-O-O-K-I-E.
It's spelled that way.
K-I-E is,
is key,
not K.
But if you want to call it
the Y2K,
then we'll do that.
Y,
okay,
the Y2K.
Here we go.
This is written by
Janine Patrick.
My mommy and daddy
have been talking all year.
Look,
I said it was for kids,
all right,
so.
My mommy and daddy
have been talking all year
about something strange
and unfamiliar they fear.
They don't tell me.
They use their grown-up voices.
They talk about preparing
and precaution and choices.
Whatever it is,
it's not meant for me,
but still I get scared
when they say the Y2K.
Uh,
the,
what?
It doesn't make any sense at all.
I'm sorry,
I didn't write it.
It's for kids.
The Y2K,
I think,
is a monster.
It's huge.
And it's very hard
to read this,
too,
the way they have it
written out.
It's as smart as a fox
and it's meaner than Scrooge.
It gets into your house
and it steals things at night.
It gets,
it's got long-reaching claws
and it causes a fright.
Good thing for us,
it hasn't come around till now,
but for some reason,
it's creeping up
somehow.
Yes, Voltaire?
Is the Y2K a hacker?
I think maybe
that might be the case.
I saw my parents
stuff the pantry
with cans of food,
so maybe
Y2K won't eat me
if I try to be good?
Good doesn't rhyme with food.
It's spelled...
How do we know
it's pronounced Y2K now?
Because now they've proven
that they can't rhyme.
Yeah, apparently not.
Uh,
they have blankets
and flashlights
and candles galore.
You never know
what might happen
at the store.
I'm beginning to think
it's everywhere,
but I don't tell my parents
because they're already scared.
That's kind of lame, too.
All right, your turn.
I'm beginning to see it
on the news, too.
I try hard to listen,
but I don't have a clue.
I can gather when it's coming
at the end of this year.
As winter approaches,
I tremble with fear.
It must be a snowman,
an abominable big lug.
But for some reason, though,
I hear it's a bug.
I have no idea now
how a bug got so scary.
Yes, they're creepy,
but they shouldn't
make adults wary.
They've started a countdown.
It's coming, they say.
Grownups cower
in every country every day.
Businessmen, even,
when they're stalked
by this giant,
whimper and promise to be
y-tookie compliant.
I just, you know,
as somebody who's sort of
dabbled in education,
this just doesn't seem like
it's going to even reach
kids at all.
Let's just, uh,
the person who wrote this
might be sick,
so we don't want to, you know,
mock it too much.
But it's, uh, it's, uh, you know,
bravo for trying.
But my grandma's fair game.
Yeah, that's true,
but I think she can
probably take it better.
If they're y-tookie,
I think that was a long time ago,
so they're old enough
for us to mock them now.
That's true,
if they wrote it then,
you're right.
Okay, now Kevin,
the grand finale of this.
Are you ready, they say,
and I tremble with fear,
because I'm too little
and the end is too near.
This giant bug will crush me
with its pinching claws,
so why are my parents worried
about their computer flaws?
It was all too much to take,
too much at this age.
If you're not afraid
of what happened,
just turn the page.
All of a sudden,
it was cheerful.
On December 31st,
excitement was everywhere.
I was ready to burst.
All my neighbors gathered
in the town square
and popped the champagne
and fireworks in the air.
You better believe
I kept looking over my shoulder.
I was surprised
the y-tookie wasn't bolder.
Sometimes after midnight,
into my bed I crept.
I knew in my heart
the y-tookie also slept.
As my parents left me,
I thought I could hear,
why won't we have to worry
about this for another
hundred years?
I imagine that maybe
the y-tookie was my friend.
I'm almost sad
he won't come around again.
Now, that doesn't make
any sense to me.
Why would this kid be sad
that this fearsome insect
or whatever isn't coming
around again?
Something doesn't add up.
Yes?
Why do they still have
this online?
Oh, well, if you want
to find it online,
we're not making this up.
www.fema.gov,
F-E-M-A dot G-O-V,
slash kids,
slash, okay,
that's how you spell it,
that's how you spell it,
W-Y-T-O-O-K-I-E one dot H-T-M.
Does your page say one?
Mine says two.
Okay, so that makes sense.
One, two, three.
We read page after page.
The coloring book is four.
The coloring book is four.
You know, I didn't try
going to five.
So, okay,
and here's the second part.
The second part
of our feature here
is something from the CIA.
Yes, this is
the grownup.gov site,
and there's actually a page
about their clandestine service.
Yes, I'm not kidding.
A page about
the clandestine service of the CIA.
Sorry, what?
Do they have a non-clandestine,
like the public part of the CIA?
Well, you'll have to go
and explore their site
to see all about the other things,
but I'm kind of surprised
that the clandestine service
has its own web page,
and it's defined this way.
The threats facing
the United States today
are more complex and challenging
than ever before,
and the collection
of foreign intelligence
has never been more vital
to our nation's security.
Some of the broad issues we face,
such as the threat of war
and regional instability,
are perennial challenges,
complex targets,
such as terrorism and proliferation,
pose increasingly critical threats.
In this environment,
the National Clandestine Service,
known as NCS,
operates as the clandestine arm
of the CIA
and serves as the national authority
for the coordination,
de-confliction.
That's the first time in my life
I've ever said that word.
Has anyone in this room
ever used the word de-confliction?
You know, as if from magic,
Nick Farr has arrived
from Washington, D.C.,
and Nick, come up and tell us
when you've ever used that word.
This is amazing
how you just sort of appeared
when I said that, too.
Actually, it was in a report
that I was doing
when I was actually working
for a consulting firm
that was working for the FBI
at the time.
Wow, so this is like
a governmental thing, isn't it?
Yeah, actually,
there's three parts to the CIA.
There's the clandestine service,
there's the research service,
and I forget
what the third part is.
Yeah, you're supposed to forget
what the third part is, I'll bet.
I'll bet, yeah.
Can you use the word?
Use the word in a sentence
to speak it properly?
I just got here
and I'm illegally parked.
I have to go.
Oh, just say the word, then.
Huh?
Just say the word.
Deconflicted.
Deconflicted.
Oh, a different use of it.
Okay.
Do you need a quarter for you?
No, I got quarters.
Okay, good.
Welcome, by the way.
Oh, thank you.
And you're with a bunch of people.
Do you want to introduce them?
Go ahead.
Introduce these people.
We're in the middle
of talking about the CIA,
but we'll finish that
after you introduce
your friends here.
Hi, my name is Sascha from Germany.
From Germany?
Yeah, from the
phone operation center,
from the events,
the CE3 events.
You're the guys
that make everybody
communicate amongst each other
so well.
Yeah, we try to.
And are you here
to show us how to do that
because we need to learn
how to communicate?
No, we have not the time yet.
Okay.
It just arrived.
It'll take a while to train us.
Look what we got for a phone.
Look at that phone.
Clearly, you can do better
than this.
Don't hold Bernie S like that.
Bernie, are you okay?
See, he's stunned.
Bernie, don't shake people
on the phone.
It's very bad for them.
I'm sorry.
I'm still recovering.
All right.
You all right?
Yeah, I'm recovering.
Why don't you see other people
or will they be clandestine?
All right.
Hi, I'm Jens,
and I'm just tagging along.
I'm on a visit to New York.
And you're from Germany too?
Yes.
Wow.
How about that?
What are the odds
that the third person
is also from Germany?
We'll find out.
I'm the third person.
My name is Axel.
I'm from Germany too.
Wow.
I'm Jens' brother.
Great.
So you guys are in New York
for the first time?
First time, yeah.
Awesome.
Well, here's a radio station.
It's great.
We have a bunch of those
in the city as well.
All right, guys.
Make sure your car doesn't get towed,
and maybe we'll talk to you
a little bit later.
Let me finish about the CIA here.
Okay, in the National
Clandestine Service,
the National Authority
for Coordination,
Deconfliction,
and Evaluation
of Clandestine
Human Intelligence
Operations
Across the Intelligence
Community,
the NCS supports
our country's security
and foreign policy interests
by conducting
clandestine activities
to collect information
that is not obtainable
through other means.
The NCS also conducts
counterintelligence
and special activities
as authorized by the president.
I just think it's amazing
how they're talking about it.
I mean, clandestine,
according to Merriam-Webster,
I even printed out
the definition here,
it's marked by,
held in,
or conducted with secrecy.
And here's a web page
saying, yes,
this is what we do.
We do secret things
we don't tell anybody about,
and here's our web page.
But they use made-up words.
I still don't know
what they do.
Apparently, they do
whatever the president
tells them.
Great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But at least they tell us
that on a web page now.
And that's our
.gov of the week feature
for this week.
If you have suggestions
as to .gov websites
we can go to
that are fun and interesting,
write to us,
oth at 2600.com.
We'd love to hear from you
and love to see
what kinds of sites
you're able to come up with
as well.
Over the last few weeks,
we've learned so much
about how the government
operates.
It's kind of frightening.
All right.
Bernie, what do you think of that?
Why you weren't being shaken,
that is.
No, I'm over that,
being shaken.
But, you know,
I think I ran into
these fine Germans last night.
Were they walking around
in Philadelphia?
You ran into some Germans
last night?
What do you mean?
In Philadelphia.
I was walking around
viewing some
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be a prohibited hand luggage item on an airplane.
Yeah, the EU list is a secret list
show that rackets are not specifically banned from the cabin however contains a
catch-all prohibition on any blunt instrument capable of causing injury
and an overeager airport official might still argue that rackets fall into that
category. I maintain
fists can fall into that category. It's a blunt object, you can hit somebody pretty
good over the head
and if you ban people with hands and you only have people with
USB devices and feet, yes. Feet are a lethal weapon. And some people
headbutt so maybe certain heads shouldn't be allowed on board. Rob?
Is there really any blunt object that could not be used to inflict injury by
someone sufficiently angry?
No, I don't think so. I think there's all kinds of, there's an unlimited number of blunt
objects. But the way that was
phrased was interesting. Did they say it's not because they might be
used as but because an overzealous security guard
might see them as being used as and then slow down the whole process. Was that what
they're saying?
This all got started because this tennis, yes Mike?
Blunt objects are forbidden. Sharp objects
also forbidden, of course. Is there any other class of object?
Liquids are forbidden. Squishy.
There's imaginary objects. There's invisible objects.
Small. Sarcastic objects.
Anyway, the point is this tennis player was thrown off a flight because
security staff believed that his rackets posed a terrorist threat.
And he basically took it to court and won.
And basically, judges ruled the unpublished European Union Register of
Hand Luggage Restrictions could not be enforced because passengers had no way
of knowing
exactly what was prohibited. It sounds kind of familiar. It sounds like
the kinds of things that we're told, you know, there's no law that we can point to
but
it's forbidden. Go ahead, Dalreth. Under that kind of definition,
even a book could be a constituted
as not allowed. Certain books, most definitely, yes. Yeah, like the 2600 book.
Well, yeah. I mean, somebody was reading an article on how to hack
passport, which was not the passports that people use.
It's, you know, a computer kind of passport. And
somebody was upset at that. They thought that he was some kind of terrorist hacker.
So, yeah, there's all kinds of things like that. I keep wondering how,
it seems to me, does anybody else have data points on, in practice, how
TSA is not enforcing stuff? Because for me, I've,
the first couple times I went through with my, tried to go through with my Swiss
Army knife, which is, you know, not longer than my finger,
they stopped me. But the last five times, like it's just gone through, it wasn't a big
problem at all.
Where'd you put it? It was in my backpack on my keys. And it was,
it wasn't checked in? No, it wasn't checked in. Wow. Yeah. I know people have had their
their Swiss Army knife confiscated. Bernie, you had your Swiss Army knife
confiscated when we went to see Obama on the train, right?
I did, but I've gone through TSA many times boarding
international flights. Of course, it was in my Altoids tin,
but still, they, you know, they didn't look in there. Yeah, lots of times they don't look in the Altoids
tins. We're not trying to give tips to,
you know, terrorists or anything like that. But just, it's a point of fact, many times
they don't even look inside those things.
With the pocket knife in the backpack, it might have been covered up
on the x-ray by all the keys that it was attached to, maybe. Is it that easy?
I've seen that actually happen. They've caught it that way before.
They've caught it before when it was on my key ring.
Like, it's always on my key ring. Maybe, but you said only once, so.
A couple times, I had to cry. I'd be like, my dad gave this to me, he's very sick.
It worked. It worked. Okay, here's our favorite
topic here. A 64-year-old man will spend six and a half years in jail for
downloading hundreds of images of child pornography.
Yes, that's right. Ralph Close of New Bern, Connecticut
was sentenced in U.S. District Court. Authorities say he pleaded guilty to
receiving child porn back in September. He was busted after he downloaded the
pictures from a website monitored by Immigration and Customs
Enforcement. Not quite sure how that has to do with immigration or
customs, except for the customs of our country, which are
kind of weird. They go into some of the sordid details of what the
poses were and what kinds of people were participating in them.
And after he finishes his six and a half years, he'll have five more years of
supervised release. And keep in mind, the guy's 64 years old.
You know, it's incredible. This is a website. Some guy just goes to a website
that's being monitored. Why didn't they just shut down the website or
do whatever else they do to forbidden subject matter?
Instead, they, I mean, you just send somebody a link to this site. Are they
going to get visited now? Is it that easy? Well, I don't know. I mean, you know, maybe
the guy is up to no good. But this is something that we brought up
weeks ago, where just having images. This isn't even about having images. It's
about accessing the website now. I gotta say, it's very different from
the crime itself. Am I alone on this? Is anybody else? I
concur. I'm sorry, go ahead, Bernie. What?
You're not alone. I'm not alone, yes. I know I'm not alone, but in this room.
Possessing a picture is not the same as acting as if those are in the picture.
But, you know, whatever. If you have a picture of somebody
pretending to kill someone or even killing someone, just possessing that
picture is not the same as killing someone. Exactly, yeah.
And, you know, to me, I think murder is a pretty serious crime and violence is a
really horrible thing that should be focused on a lot more. And I think the
embarrassment of just having his name publicized is enough punishment right
there, unless he was up to something else, in which case he should be charged
with that. Yes, Rob? I'm just wondering, like, anyone can be
sent to any website for any reason. You type something wrong, you click a link
that, you know, you shouldn't have. So just accessing the website, is that in
itself the crime? Or is it keeping the images after you've
seen the website and realized, hey, this isn't what I was looking for?
Sometimes the images get stored in your computer regardless.
And your temp files, yeah. Things like that.
Every time we get Rickrolled, you think if we got prosecuted for that,
you know, it could happen. Also, how are the powers that be monitoring this
website? Is it their website? That's another great question. And so
many times, I believe, Bernie, you brought this up,
where the people that are actually looking for these people,
trying to track them down, they're usually the ones that are saving more
child porn than anybody. Is that right? Well, people tend to
gravitate to things they like. So it would not surprise me. In fact, I
talked to somebody who knew someone who worked in customs
who said that there's a lot of shady people
that work at various government law enforcement agencies that enforce
child pornography laws because they like to look at this stuff.
And they can legally if they're doing that, I suppose. Sure, what
better job to have if you're that kind of a perverted person
and sick and like to look at that kind of stuff? What better job to have is one
that you can look at it all day and night with impunity?
So I think we need to watch the watchers somehow.
One of the interesting things is that in the commercial world, I know of at least
one major photo sharing site that has somebody on staff whose job
it is to look for child pornography among flagged images.
And that person's job mandates that they have psychological counseling
the entire time. Before or after? Possibly
altogether, you know. But I think it's sort of interesting, you know, do the
government officials who are looking for this also have to go through
psychological counseling? Might be a good idea.
To what Bernie said about them gravitating towards this kind of job,
then by legislating against this, what they're doing is creating an industry
for people that they're trying to attack.
Yeah, it does seem that way. Okay, enough about that.
Let's see. This person writes in, Michael writes in,
I've been listening to it for some time now. I always miss the pledge drive
since I listen to the show in batches often long after they've aired. What is
the best way for me to contribute? I was hoping to get one of those
swanky off-the-hook t-shirts. Well, Michael, the only way to get the t-shirts
is to pledge while we are on the air doing our particular radio show. The
reason for that is if we had the things available all the time, we'd go bankrupt
because we'd be giving away thousands and
thousands of them. But if you really care about WBAI, and you
should because you're listening to this radio station now or whenever it is you
are listening to us, you can contribute any time. Does anybody
like to give the information on how to contribute? Go ahead, Mike.
WBAI.org. That's right, WBAI.org.
And there's all kinds of information there on how you can pledge. And there
are all kinds of other items you can get, not
off-the-hook items, but other items of fabulous things, BAI things,
other premiums. The important thing, though, is to support the station. So go
to WBAI.org, pledge a whole lot, keep us
going because in these economic times we're hitting, we're being hit pretty
hard. We're being hit really hard. Go ahead.
Even if you don't listen to the show live, you could call between
7 and 8 on Wednesday when the drive is going, and you'll still be able to get
the shirt anyway. That's right, 7 and 8 p.m.
Eastern time, wherever you are. Okay, we have more mail.
oth at 2600.com is our email address. Let's take some phone calls in a
couple of minutes. 212-209-2900. Dear off-the-hook, in regards to the
March 12th show, I believe you mean the March 11th show,
right? Because today's the 18th, so we didn't have...
Maybe the person's in a different time zone, so it's already the 12th. Yeah, but
we label the shows exactly to avoid this kind of confusion.
In regards to last week's show, your question as to why Virgin Mobile and
other prepay mobile services are getting bent out of shape for the bulk purchases
of phones to be unlocked after selling their phones for such low prices,
well, they're making their money off the airtime. If you look at the cost per
minute, the rates are rather expensive. The airtime
costs combined with their limited value-added services, such as web access,
etc., is where they get the most income. Customer
service reps are encouraged to upsell these features.
I hope this provided some perspective on why they complained, signed TJ. And TJ,
yes, we know this, and we know why they complained, and,
you know, we have every right to complain.
What we have a problem with is the fact that they seem to have legal rights to
prevent people from doing things that make them complain,
such as selling the phones. I think if you own something, you can
sell it for whatever you feel like selling it for. If somebody wants to buy
it, more power to them. It's a free market
society. Yeah, a bad business plan should not be
legally enforceable. They should just take the hit and move on,
because it's obviously not working in the way they want it to.
Somebody tell the RIAA that.
Working on it. Here's another letter, this from somebody within the system.
In regards to the caller you talked to on the show who was concerned about
being double-billed by Verizon for making changes on her account,
I have an explanation. While I'm in no position to speak for Verizon, I do work
for AT&T, and our methods are pretty much identical.
Cell phone bills these days are usually charged in advance. This means
when you get your bill in February, you're paying for services you will use
in March. When you make changes on your account,
there are three ways that could affect the bill. Backdating, future dating, and
mid-cycle changes. Future dating a change makes the bill
nice and neat, but you have to wait for it to take effect, and mid-cycle changes
cause nasty prorated charges, which is a simple concept, but would take a large
pamphlet to fully explain. For the sake of example, we'll use
changing your text messaging plan from a $5 package to a $15 package, and
we're backdating it. The changes are backdated to the
beginning of the bill cycle. What you'll see on the next bill is a
credit for the $5 package you paid last month.
Since you paid in advance already, but changed to a different package, you get a
refund. Then you'll see a $15 charge for the
package you used in its place. Okay, now we're caught up with what you
would have paid last month. Then you'll see the other $15 charge to
cover your usage next month. Let's put this in simpler terms. I have
a basket of oranges delivered to my house every month.
One day, I decide I no longer want oranges. I want watermelons.
Oh boy. I call the delivery man and tell him about the change
I want to make. He punches you square in the face.
Well, he's got to carry them. Watermelons, yeah. When the delivery truck arrives
next month, I give them back the oranges I didn't
want, and I receive the watermelon I wanted instead. What kind of delivery
service is going to take back month-old oranges? Yeah, well, you
noticed that, but I noticed that he only mentioned
watermelon singular. Only one watermelon he's getting, so that's interesting.
I also get the watermelon that was being delivered according to schedule.
Flimsy analogies aside, that's how it works. In short, the lady was not getting
double charge. She just didn't understand her bill. They're confusing, I know.
I have to explain this 11 billion times a day to people with varying degrees of
mathematical proficiency, and sometimes I get confused.
Most of the fault is the bill's non-user-friendly formatting. Nobody
knows what all the crap on there says. It might as well be 200 lines of PC
load letter with a price tag on the end. Anyway, if you have any other questions
about cell phone bills or customer service, I would be glad to answer what I
can. I will be listening. Signed, Scaz, and thanks very much for
listening and for that very helpful letter, and it's great to know that our
BI listeners are connected in all sorts of different ways.
Do they look for opportunities to hire as many accountants as possible?
That's probably a reason why they do it that way.
I don't know. This seems just totally out of the way, and
people wonder why these companies are running out of money these days.
All right, 212-209-2900. Let's get a couple more phone calls on the line,
then we'll go directly to the phones. This is a letter from our
friend Stuart over in Tokyo. Dear OffTheHook, I was wondering whether
this application of technology actually crosses the moral line when downloading
copyrighted media from the internet. Using an application which currently
runs on a Google Android phone, it allows you to scan a barcode on the
back of a DVD in a store and start a download of that DVD on your
home PC. That's awesome. Who said that's awesome?
DotWrite, you said that's awesome. No, I didn't. Don't point that at me.
Gus is silently cheering in the background. All right, I guess the moral
implications end up pretty clear to you. The current implementation seems to
require a few manual steps, but it is conceivable that the whole process could
be automated further. The net effect is almost no different to
taking the DVD from the store without paying for it, effectively robbing
DVD retail stores of their last source of income, the impulse buy.
Hold on, hold on. All this technology has been around for some time now and
is not limited to Google Android phones, but I've never seen this
amalgamation of the combination of the pieces. It just seems like one of those
ideas, which now out of the box, can't be unthought and will surely
spawn imitations and variants that we have never seen before.
Will the next new crime be stealing barcodes? Again, Stuart in Tokyo, thank
you very much. Voltaire first. I don't think it's anywhere near taking it, like
stealing it from the store, because somebody that comes after this customer
might as well just buy it. What if they have another Google Android phone?
You know, if it's still there, fine, but if nobody ever buys it... Yeah, but how many people
have Google Android phones? How many people use BitTorrent in the first
place? You still have to have a BitTorrent client set up. How many people in this room use BitTorrent?
On their phone. Well, okay, it's a matter of time before... No, I think it's hooked up to the
desktop. It doesn't use it on your phone. Almost everybody raised their hands, but go ahead.
Speaking about impulse buys, I'm surprised that no company has tried actually using this in a
capitalist model, where you scan the barcode and they'll just mail it to you after you
automatically pay. That's interesting.
They could have made a business model out of this, but instead...
They tried to. It was called the QCAT, right? I mean, it came out...
Oh boy, what a wretched piece of technology that was.
It didn't go well. I mean, I've got one, actually. It's kind of a fun little thing
for if you are trying to put stuff up on Hap.com or whatever, but it just didn't...
We weren't ready for it at the time.
We weren't nearly as connected then as we are now.
No, no. I mean, so now it would be a very good thing.
But the QCAT was pretty bulky. It was pretty big and clumsy.
It's about the size of a Twinkie, and it's shaped like a cat with a little square.
It's a pretty big Twinkie.
Right, but see, it works better if it's software on a phone as now.
Exactly.
All right, let's develop something. Mike? No? You changed... Okay,
let's take some phone calls in. 212-209-2900. And good evening, you're on off the hook.
Yes, I wanted to convey to you a serious problem I've had.
Okay, as long as it's relevant.
It is. It's upstate.
All right, that doesn't make it relevant, but go ahead.
Pardon? Yeah, I'll try to condense it if I can. I'm with the V Landline Company.
Uh-huh.
I've been since the 40s. My father was an engineer in the 40s.
See, I'm not cutting it down enough. There's somebody at the top of my line.
I've been jerking with Verizon over and over and over again. Switch time warner, same tone,
so it's a zero key they hit. It's interacting with whatever conversation I'm doing on my end
or on the other end. All the card numbers are out there, social security numbers out there,
and it's a nightmare, and they've been jerking with it for how many years?
You're occasionally hearing the zero tone when you're talking to somebody on the phone?
Yes.
Okay, so...
But they also do other tones, but they do it...
You can tell after two years it's interactive.
Right. Well, technically, I wouldn't say it's tapping. It's somebody tapping into your line,
not somebody tapping your phone, right?
I don't know. I called the FCC. Her opinion was it was a wiretap. She said,
let me transfer you to the Federal Trade Commission. Her opinion was it was a wiretap.
There's no reason for them to do that.
Well, my opinion is it's some kid with too much time on his hands sitting on a telephone pole,
or maybe... Do you live in an apartment complex?
No, no, no.
Okay, well, at some point, phone lines are extremely insecure. It's very easy to tap
into them and simply hook up a butt set or something, and somebody's just having fun
at your expense.
I think so. That's what I first thought.
And the FTC is not going to help with that, that's for sure.
Knowing where your phone line goes through and tracking it down that way,
it's a tough one because of the nature of phone lines. Rob?
There's also the possibility that there's something the matter with your phone,
and it's randomly sending tones.
They rewired the entire house, replaced the software in the central office,
which is a mile and a half down the road, gave me a new pair on the line coming up,
dead-ended it at my house, run a new drop line, put a new box outside,
inside, and I bought all new phones twice.
Yeah, so I don't think it's the phone. I think that's the most likely explanation.
Somebody somewhere along the line is just messing with you.
You know, it's likely the person knows you if it is something like this.
That's something I ask. I know it makes sense, but I can't figure anybody that would.
Well, yeah, that's the thing with people doing stupid things. You can never know
who's doing it, but somebody out there probably is.
Bernie, do you have any ideas on ways to fix this?
Well, you could avoid the whole thing by using a different form of communications.
You could use a voice-over IP service, which they would not be able to tap into nearly as easily,
or use a cell phone. Those are a couple of ideas.
The first one, use a computer. Is that correct or not?
Well, not necessarily. Use a voice-over IP service.
There's a lot of them on the market. Verizon offers a service.
Various cable companies offer a voice-over IP service.
There's Comcast. There's Skype.
Do you have broadband internet service at home?
No, I do not.
Okay, well, you would need that.
I have audio and video, but not computers.
You'd need a broadband internet connection in your home to use one of these many voice-over
IP services, many of which are free or very low cost.
The other is to consider a cell phone plan and use that, especially nights and weekends,
you can usually get for free. That's not going to get tapped by any kid.
No, I mean, you know as well as I do that you buy a radio scanner out of Canada,
it's opened up for the cellular band.
Not anymore.
Really?
That's especially weird, seeing as how they don't really use those frequencies that much anymore.
Okay, no more 869 up.
Yeah, the same frequencies both in the 800 megahertz and 1900 megahertz band are used
for cellular, but they all use pretty complex digital modulation schemes,
which no consumer scanner can demodulate.
So you wouldn't have to worry about that.
They don't even use APCO 25.
Okay.
Exactly, they don't use APCO 25.
All right, listen, we wish you the best of luck with this, sir.
It's a bad problem to have, but we'll see if we can get some listener feedback on this as well.
Keep listening and hopefully things will work out for you.
Thanks for your call.
DotRed, did you have something to add on this?
I was just wondering if you switched service providers if, you know,
maybe be routed a different way.
Yeah, but still, the phone is still coming through the same copper pair,
usually, unless you use a cable, you know, cable solution.
If it's in the actual, if they're tapping somewhere within the actual building,
then they should be able to find it.
If it's really going up that high in the chain that somebody inside the phone company is doing
this, but I kind of doubt that for that kind of juvenile behavior.
Okay, let's take another phone call.
Good evening, you're on Off The Hook.
Hi.
Hi, what's on your mind?
January, a year ago, there were some news reports about Verizon fighting
with the government to get paid for wiretaps, which they had arranged through Verizon,
but which they hadn't paid the bills for.
And so Verizon was threatening to disconnect them.
Let me ask you a question.
If you were able to go for an entire year without paying your Verizon bill,
do you think you were probably tapped?
Interesting question.
Anybody want to address this?
No, I don't think so.
We're all too scared, but thanks.
Thanks for scaring us.
We needed that.
Good evening, you're on Off The Hook.
Good evening.
How you doing?
What's on your mind?
I'm here.
I live in a private house.
And for the past, well, I have this phone line since 1985.
But for the past 20 years, I've had the same problem that that gentleman's having.
I've changed phones.
I reported to Verizon.
I've changed companies.
So you're saying you have the same problem with somebody hitting various touchstone keys?
And that you hear them talking too, while I'm talking to people on the line sometimes.
Oh, you hear them talking?
People carrying on conversations.
But you hear them talking?
Yeah, but they can't hear me.
They can't hear you.
Well, you know, if that happens, this used to happen a lot more in the past.
It was actually kind of fun when we were growing up.
It was fun to always hear other conversations, even if they couldn't hear you.
But from that, you can get a sense as to where they are, maybe, or who they are.
Sometimes they give out their phone number, their address, something like that.
And that way, at least, you know what you're being connected to.
When something like that happens, then you simply report it to the phone company as a
cross line or something like that, at least as a record of it.
Yes, they test the lines, everything.
They send men here.
And they come in the house.
They check outside.
And from my home, it goes to the pool.
From the pool, it goes somewhere else.
But it's disgusting.
Yeah, definitely.
So you might want to also check weather conditions.
Because I have a landline that whenever it rains, there's a loud hum on it.
It has nothing to do with the weather.
Sorry?
It has nothing to do with the weather.
OK.
You're sure about that, then?
Yes, positive.
All right.
Thank you for taking my call.
All right.
Well, good luck with that.
I guess cross lines are a bigger problem than I thought they were.
Not Kevin.
Do you have something to add on this?
Sorry.
He's using a cordless phone.
Say again?
Or if he's using a cordless phone.
How would a cordless phone make it worse?
I mean, theoretically, you have two very similar phones on the same frequency that could cross.
Yeah.
These days, don't most of them have ways of preventing that?
Not always.
Not always.
That's true.
Especially if you have an older one.
That's absolutely true.
OK.
Folks, we're out of time.
But I want to thank everybody.
Actually, let me finish by reading a couple of pieces of mail that will lead us to our outro.
I'm a longtime listener of Off the Hook.
A subscriber to 2600.
I want to know, what is the name of the song at the start of Freedom Down Time?
The very first one.
They're taking Fiber to Jail, signed Smitty.
Well, Smitty, that song actually comes from the specials from the album called Today's Specials.
You know what?
The title of it escapes me.
But if you get that album, you'll easily find it, along with the outro to the...
What, Voltaire, are you looking it up?
You don't have to go to that much trouble.
OK.
And finally, for this last bit, and this leads into our song for this week about telephones.
Ever since you started playing a phone-related song at the end of the show,
I've been listening for my favorite phone-related song.
And because this song fits so well with the theme and title of your show,
I'm afraid you must have played it the one week I somehow missed your show.
First of all, you never have to miss a show,
because you can always listen to them at www.2600.com slash Off the Hook.
If you haven't already played it, please consider your phone's off the hook,
but you're not, by the band X.
Keep up the great work.
Protozoa from France.
And Protozoa, that is what we're going to play this week on our outro.
I want to invite everybody else to email us, oth at 2600.com.
I want to thank everybody for being here tonight,
and for calling in and participating.
We'll see you next week.
But you're not
Someone cleaned a sewer
A one-man, no one left
A cousin, they said, and you're
In the co-way zone
We paid fifty dollars on 12th Street today
And now all our money's gone
You don't have to answer me
You don't have to call me back
Your phone's off the hook
But you're not
But you're not
But you're not
But you're not