That's Sunday, November 6th at 11pm, right here on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM and WBAI.org on the web.
Yo, this is G-Love on WBAI New York, New York.
And you're listening to WBAI New York, the time is 7 o'clock, time once again for Off the Hook.
It's Sunday, November 6th at 11pm, right here on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM and WBAI.org on the web.
And G-Love on WBAI New York, 99.5 FM and WBAI.org on the web.
Hi, hello.
Greetings from Philadelphia.
It's grown so much, it's really incredible. Any impressions you guys, Mike, Voltaire?
It's big.
Yeah, well it was always big, but they got tents now. They didn't have tents before, and having tents really turns it into more of a community, I think.
Yeah, it feels like a city almost, like the last time we were there it was just like an event.
It's something that you expect people to go home for after the weekend or something.
It was wet and cold, but people stayed no matter what. People were always there.
But now you can actually go back into something that is fairly warm and sheltered from the elements.
I visited Occupy D.C. over the weekend and Occupy Philly, and I was amazed by how much more of an insulated area there was for people to basically escape from the rain and the snow and various other nightmares that were happening.
And it just allows you to get your head together a little bit more.
So I was happy to come back to New York and see that tents are now up.
I don't know how it happened. I'm not sure when it changed and all of a sudden tents were allowed, but tents are there now.
They're not allowed, but they've stopped being enforced.
Okay, maybe that's what has to happen. People have to just do things that aren't allowed because it makes sense.
It does not make sense to be outside in the cold without some kind of shelter.
They've been doing that since day one. Obviously people break the rules from day one, but once they realize that they stopped enforcing it, that's what made the difference.
It's a question of picking the right battles and maintaining strength and fighting back when necessary.
Well, I think the big issue is mainly the fact that the police and the city in general has been getting a lot of bad press for cracking down on this too much.
So at first they had makeshift tents, but now that they seem to be possibly enforcing this less, that now they came in with tents because it's just too cold otherwise.
Right. Now, Bernie, you were with us when we visited Occupy Philly, and you've been there a few times, correct?
Yes, I was there the first night and several times since then, and I was pleased to take you over there and show you some of the setup.
It's massive. It's huge. It's very well coordinated, in my opinion, from what I saw.
We actually have one of the coordinators, one of the technological coordinators. Dan is joining us from Occupy Philly. Dan, are you with us?
Yeah, hey.
How are you doing?
I'm pretty good. Yeah, good night.
So now, I know that the General Assembly is about to start for you guys. Basically, that's where all kinds of things are tabled and discussed and various things like that.
So we don't want to keep you for very long, but if you could tell us something about the technological setup.
I know it's been a struggle here in New York to get decent connectivity so that people can communicate outside the encampment.
What do you guys have set up down there?
Well, originally, when I first got here, I brought a Deep Thought battery and a 750-watt inverter.
And some other guys actually came up with a 4G clear modem, and we plugged in some regular high-powered routers.
And from there, everybody was pretty much instantaneously connected to the Internet.
And after that started bogging down, we actually got a second clear modem and router just for the live streaming.
And at this point, Philadelphia, after we signed the permit, they actually gave us use of one outlet, which is great.
Now we can charge up all the batteries and run all of our technological stuff directly from the 120.
Wait, is this the cord that I saw coming out of the window of City Hall?
Yeah, yeah. They gave us one outlet, and it only has 20 amps.
So we're just running laptops, routers and stuff off it, and charging Deep Thought batteries.
And I've been delivering them to safety and medical and food.
And we've given them smaller inverters so they can all have their laptops running.
And further away, we actually have a repeater, which I have inside my personal tent,
so I can bounce the signal all the way down to where the medical tent is.
So pretty much everybody has Wi-Fi coverage and power.
Yeah, we have Christmas lights up, and it's pretty nice.
Oh, that would be nice.
I was blown away, though, when I went to Philadelphia and I saw that the city is actually helping by giving you guys power,
not having to play surrounded by cops like the one here at Wall Street is.
And the mood just seemed to be a lot more peaceful, less tense, less of a confrontation brewing.
Is that accurate?
That's correct. I think Philadelphia is a city of brotherly love.
The way I feel personally, the way I feel is they've welcomed us with open arms, yeah.
Is there any kind of advice you would give to the other Occupy locations as things that they can do
to get more connectivity, to set things up in an efficient manner?
Pretty much everything I said is just have everything ready when you get there.
The 4G worked great for us. We're getting, like, 10 megabits a second when we tested it out.
Hey, Dan.
Just have plenty of default batteries and some good chargers.
That's really crucial.
We noticed from the beginning to have plenty of places to charge the batteries and keep them going.
Hey, Dan.
Go ahead, Bernie.
Dan, I had a couple questions.
I'm in Philadelphia also with the hackerspace nearby called The Hactory.
I wanted to ask you, I understand there was a, first of all, you mentioned the 4G.
I guess you're using the ClearWire WiMAX connectivity.
Yes, we have two of those.
And we might get a third.
Right, and these just, these are, are these just plugged into individual laptops or are these actual routers?
I think they, I think they might be wireless themselves, but we just go ahead and put in,
like, we get, like, the real nice wireless routers.
Each router that we, each wireless router that we plug into the ClearModem transmits a 5 gigahertz and a 2 gigahertz open
and a 5 gigahertz and 2 gigahertz secure.
Right, and I think that Sarge, we met Sarge there on, I guess it was Saturday night,
and he said you were running 802.11abgn.
But the other question I wanted to ask you is I understand that some of the folks on the legal team and so forth
met with the mayor on Sunday.
Can you tell me what happened there?
Oh, they're just, they're just talking.
We had a meeting.
He was talking about different things.
Most of it was him saying that he, you know, he wants to have dialogue with us.
You know, he agreed, you know, he likes what we're doing.
He loves free speech.
I mean, it's…
You have a mayor who loves free speech?
Really?
Yeah, things are really different here in Philly compared to other states.
Wow.
It's really surprising, and I'm really impressed, personally.
Uh-huh.
I think things are going to go great here.
I mean, people, of course, everyone here is apprehensive at first.
You know, because you never know because everything that's happened in other cities, you know, is crazy.
Dan, what do you think is going to happen with the…
I know there's some planned construction on the site of the Occupy Philly,
the construction plan being for an ice skating rink that's been planned, you know, for a year or two.
What do you think is going to happen with that?
It's supposed to happen November 30th.
Well, the plan is supposed to start on the 15th,
and the city has actually offered us to expand, move next door,
and tonight we're actually going to vote to get a permit to actually expand to…
There's actually another open area right next door,
and we're going to have a vote tonight whether to expand to that or not,
and personally, I hope it goes through.
It's the first step into getting everybody to agree to go to a different location.
My personal opinion is that if the city is working with us, we should work with them.
I mean, he says he'll work with us about where we're moving to.
You know, we can pick locations and see which one we can both agree upon.
So this is by the city hall annex?
Is that where the statue of former Philadelphia Mayor Frank Rizzo stands?
Yeah, it's a municipal building right next door.
There's a bunch of game pieces and stuff. It's pretty neat.
Will the protesters be allowed to dress up Mayor Frank Rizzo?
Oh, I don't know.
Bernie, you're going to have to pursue that on your own time, I think.
That's a long dream of yours, I know, to do that.
That's why he doesn't like his graffiti on the buildings.
That's what he did today.
He really doesn't like seeing the beautiful marble having graffiti on it.
So we've sent our guys out to go around and clean everything up really good as days go on.
We have a sanitation team that takes care of that.
Just kind of keep everything clean.
Okay.
Well, Dan, we don't want to keep you from this important meeting
because obviously you're deciding on whether to expand and move locations a little bit and things like that.
Sounds great.
Sounds like you really have it very well organized down there.
Things are looking better and better as days go on.
Wasn't there a 99-minute strike today, a general strike in Philadelphia?
Yeah.
How'd that go?
I was able to go out to action.
I'm extremely tied up in the technological side of it.
It's hard for me to get out to those.
There was some arrest today.
Some people marched out to the Comcast building,
and I think they arrested about a dozen people.
They're out already.
I've actually run into a couple of them already who are just released.
So, I mean, it was all peaceful, and everything was respectable.
Dan, can you give us any kind of contact info, websites,
if people want to contribute any kind of equipment?
Let us know what you need as well.
I'm pretty sure it's OP.
Let me check my phone real quick.
I have it all written down here.
You can't talk on the phone and check it at the same time.
That's the problem with these smartphones.
Okay, it is opfunding at gmail.com
and opinkind at gmail.com.
I'm just reading this all off.
Somebody has a text that goes to Jobs with Justice,
and in a memo line you write,
It goes to 1229 Chestnut Street, PMB, 248 Philly PA, 19107.
Well, I guess listeners can just contact us at OTH at 2600.com,
and we'll make sure it gets to the right people.
Sure, any help we can get, we greatly appreciate it.
Okay, and just for the sake of people that might be wanting to stop by,
you're right in front of City Hall in Philadelphia by Broad Street, correct?
Yep, can't miss us.
Yeah, you really can't.
It's huge, and it's amazing.
It's a really good vibe.
Yeah, it's a beautiful thing.
All right, Dan, best of luck to you.
We'll be keeping track of what goes on down there,
and let us know what happens.
All right, have a great day.
All right, take care.
That was Dan from Occupy Philly
talking about various technological issues
and the overall organization.
Bernie, I really was impressed going down there and seeing that.
I was also impressed at Occupy D.C.
That's at McPherson Square in D.C., very peaceful.
Did not see a single cop,
and that's the real difference between some of the Occupy locations
and this one here where it's ringed with police all the time.
I should say, Emanuel, that when we were there,
the weather was quite inclement.
It was sort of sleeting, and it was cold and wet.
In the bright, sunny weather, the City Hall
and the Occupy Philly people are surrounded by
sort of a ring of Philadelphia police officers.
But the night we were there, it was cold and dark and rainy,
and the few cops there were sort of holed up in their motor vehicles,
keeping warm.
Yeah, we saw a few in vans.
We saw, I think, one or two vans.
You've been to New York.
You see what it's like here.
I have seen this in the media.
The media sometimes does a good job,
and sometimes they do a really awful job.
The most awful thing I saw in the last couple of weeks
was a story saying that shootings have gone up in New York City,
and it's likely because all the cops are down at Occupy Wall Street,
a not-so-subtle way of blaming protesters for violent crime.
It was just simply incredible, the audacity.
Nobody wants the cops down there in the first place.
Blame the city.
Do not blame protesters who are being peaceful
and managing their own affairs for the ring of cops
that is there 24-7 staring at them.
Voltaire.
That reminds me of the complaint about how the Occupy people
are making the city pay for overtime for cops.
It's like they're not making them pay.
No, not at all.
That's a city decision there.
Yeah, it's true.
I mean, anyone who comes down here and looks
will also see far more cops than are probably even necessary
at any given moment.
Like on Wall Street, no one's here.
The street's barricaded all the time,
and you see clusters and clusters of cops
just hanging around pretty much on any given day.
Yeah, there's no crowd there because they have the street closed off.
In fact, Occupy Wall Street has closed them off,
and cops are just standing around making sure nobody goes on the street.
And half the time they're even just congregating.
So now, in essence, the city is paying all the cops
to relocate to one part of the city and just talk to each other.
Pretty much, pretty much.
It's less contentious than it was a few weeks ago, I'll say that.
True.
That can change in a moment, though,
and that's something we really have to be careful of. Mike?
Yeah, I don't want to spend too much time on this kind of inane story,
but I don't even think it's at all possible to establish
that there's a causal relationship between the cops on Wall Street
and the number of shootings in the city.
No, not at all.
There's so many cops, and they're doing all kinds of things
that even if the protester had called up the police department
and said, please, all of you should come here,
I don't think there's any way to assume
that that would cause an increase in the shootings.
No, and, you know, it is an inane story.
I totally agree with that.
But it's in the mass media.
People believe what the mass media dishes out,
and we do have to contest what they say
because people come up to me all the time and say,
you know, I keep hearing these Wall Street people,
and not the ones inside the buildings,
the ones outside in Zuccotti Park,
they're getting all this money.
Where's all this money coming from?
And who's actually controlling them?
All kinds of rumors that are spread around by the mass media,
and they just need to be countered at some point.
But yes, I don't want to spend too much time on this.
There was a general strike today in Oakland.
According to the San Jose Mercury News,
occupied demonstrators turned their ire
on big banks and corporations
by marching, blocking traffic, and chanting,
and in some cases, defacing ATMs and pounding on doors
at Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Chase,
and Citibank branches around downtown.
Pounding on doors?
Really? Is it coming to this?
And at Whole Foods at 27th and Bay Streets,
a splinter group threw paintballs, tore up a fence,
and broke a window before the larger crowd
turned on them and ripped them to pieces,
no, forced them to stop.
No, it's not like that, but, you know,
the way they write the story sometimes makes it seem that way.
With those exceptions, though,
it was a loud, boisterous, and largely peaceful demonstration
as thousands of people from all walks of life,
yes, Mike?
I have to interrupt you because I don't understand.
So the protesters were knocking on doors
and that is counted as a counterexample of peace?
Pounding on doors, Mike.
Pounding on doors.
Not knocking, pounding.
Is violent? Is that the implication?
To the door, apparently.
You know, like, I have a lot of respects
for a lot of things, but doors?
Aren't they designed to be pounded on?
Listen, if you wrote for the mass media,
you would identify with doors
because it's about the same mentality,
but I don't want to get into that.
I mean, there's the doors.
They weren't knocking on members of the band,
the doors, right?
They were knocking, pounding on doors
at Wells Fargo, Bank of America Chase,
and Citibank branches around downtown.
But it wasn't like the band was hanging out there
and getting beat up.
I don't think so.
All right.
I don't think so.
Let's move on.
Basically, thousands of people from all walks of life
poured into downtown Oakland
from points east, north, south,
and I can't make out that last word,
but some other direction.
They were there to lend their support
and their voices to the general strike,
the first of its kind in Oakland since, anyone?
1925.
1946.
But a good guess.
I'd have known the same.
For much of the afternoon,
the large crowd split off to form separate marches,
with some staying at the Occupy Oakland camp
at 14th and Broadway,
others marching and protesting at various banks
located near the Kaiser Center,
20th and Webster Streets.
Sounds like it was a pretty active day
out there in Oakland.
Of course, all this,
the reaction to the crackdown last week,
the horrible crackdown that saw an ex-Marine
horribly injured by the police
who continued to fire into the crowd
with what I believe are still unknown projectiles.
No one seems to know exactly what it was
that was shot at.
Was it tear gas?
Was it rubber bullets?
Was it pellets of some sort?
I think more than one of the above.
But it's amazing how, you know,
if a cop was the victim here,
you would know everything,
every single fact,
and since the cops are the instigators,
you know nothing.
You just know that somebody got horribly injured
and almost killed by their actions,
but you don't really get many more details.
Like, for instance,
who's the guy who did it?
Do we know that yet?
No, that hasn't come out.
Anyway, Oakland, one more hot spot.
Here's one, San Diego.
How many of you have heard of Occupy San Diego?
Well, obviously, we've probably heard of it,
but have you been following
what's been going on down there?
Years ago, on this radio program,
you may have heard the voice of Autojack,
and I was rather shocked to find out
a few days ago via a text message from Autojack
that he had been swept up
with a bunch of other Occupy San Diego people
in another police crackdown,
and it's incredible to see all these things happening,
wondering what people overseas
must be thinking of our country
to see day after day police crackdowns
in various cities,
and the parallels to Syria
and other hot spots across the world
can't be ignored.
Autojack joins us from San Diego.
I believe you're occupying your bed now.
Is that right?
Not exactly.
I was occupying my bed,
but now I'm occupying my chair.
Okay, well, that's good.
That's progress.
Yeah, I'm not feeling well today.
Well, I can imagine not feeling well
after being held by the police.
Do you want to tell us
how it came to be in the first place
that you got dragged away by them?
You want to know how I got myself arrested
or how it is that the police decided
to put 51 people away?
In the order, were you there
when the police started to crack down on the group?
No, I wasn't.
I was at home getting ready for bed,
and I was watching the live stream,
and all of a sudden I heard Callie,
who's one of the members of the media committee,
screaming on the live stream.
You know, we're the media.
They won't let us in.
They won't let us in.
We're the media.
They won't let us in.
I was like, man, I need to get down there.
So I got myself dressed again,
and I ran down there as fast as I could.
And then I brought my camera, you know,
because I didn't know what the situation was.
And I proceeded to take pictures of the police
and, you know, tell them how I felt,
about what they were doing.
They were there in their full riot gear,
you know, with their masks.
And was this a new thing?
Had they been surrounding with that outfit before?
Well, it was a different kind of police officer before.
It was like the guys who wear, you know,
the blue uniforms, you know,
and they didn't have, like, giant sticks
or shotguns with rubber bullets or anything like that.
But they had this.
These guys did, though.
They did.
Right.
So anyway, you know, I was expressing my disgust
for what they were doing,
coming to an unarmed crowd of peaceful protesters
with, you know, what amounts to war machines.
And it's kind of funny, but I went,
and I bumped a cigarette from someone
because I had left so quickly
that I had forgotten to bring my cigarettes with me.
And then I went to light it.
I lit it.
I wasn't paying attention, and then they grabbed me,
and they proceeded to arrest me.
And did they say anything to you when they did that?
No, they didn't.
I wasn't read my rights,
and I wasn't told what I was being arrested for
or even that I was being arrested.
Wow.
It was pretty obvious.
They, you know, strapped my hands with the zip ties
and whatnot.
There were lots of other people
that were getting the same treatment.
And some people were being treated rather heavy-handedly,
like, you know, getting their piercings
ripped out of their face.
Oh, my God, really?
Yeah.
Why would they do that?
I guess you're not supposed to have them.
You're not supposed to have piercings
when you get arrested?
I guess not.
All right.
I've noted that.
What else?
Oh, and would you like to hear my experience
after being arrested?
Well, yeah, sure.
But let's get up to the stage where they take you
after they put the plastic cuffs on you.
Into a paddy wagon, and in the paddy wagon,
you know, it's separated by males and females.
But it didn't stop us from all singing
a chorus of solidarity forever, you know.
Actually, more than one chorus.
Anyway, I guess one of the guys in there
had the zip ties on too tight,
and his hands were turning purple.
So, like, everyone was trying to get the attention of the cops
to, like, have them do something about it.
And the way the cops responded was to eventually
take one of the females and give her two sets of zip ties.
Yeah.
Wish I could say I was surprised by that.
Right.
So, anyway, after sitting in the paddy wagon
for probably an hour and a half or so,
they moved us to some parking lot somewhere
where they, you know, just did a pat-down of us
and figured out who we were and whatnot.
And they put us on a bus.
They put the males on a bus,
and they put the females on a, I guess,
some, like, unmarked white van.
And I guess they ended up going to a different place than we went.
Hey, Autojack, was this a police bus
or some other kind of bus?
It was a police bus, yeah.
Okay.
Anyway, we ended up sitting on that bus
for seven hours.
Wow.
Yeah.
And where that bus eventually took us was 50 miles north,
up here in Vista, California.
Why did they take you 50 miles away?
What was the point in that?
That's a very good question
because there is a county jail two blocks
from where we were arrested.
Wow.
Okay, so they take you 50 miles away.
I think I know where this is going.
Right.
But, obviously, when you got there,
something else must have happened.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, obviously,
they had to take us out of the bus,
like, four at a time.
And then people were booked,
and they had their pictures taken and whatnot.
And then everybody was moved into, like,
one giant cell for a little while.
I've never been arrested for anything,
so I don't really know, like,
what the terminology is for all these cells or whatever.
But then we were fed,
and eventually we were brought into a cell
that had a telephone in it,
and we were each allowed to call
and, you know, figure out our bail situation.
And while we were in there,
we were told that we were going to have to be subjected
to chest x-rays.
Chest x-rays.
You had to be subjected to chest x-rays.
Let me explain this a little further.
They said the chest x-ray was for tuberculosis screening
and that it was optional,
but if we did opt out of it,
then we would be put into solitary confinement,
and we wouldn't be able to post bail.
Barney, you've gone on a tour of a lot of prisons and jails.
Have you ever heard of anything like that?
I was subjected to five different prisons
during my Secret Service tour,
and I was tested for tuberculosis in every one of them,
but it was a skin-based test
where they, you know, they scratch your skin
and put something on it,
and they look for a reaction a few hours later.
I've never heard of any prison
subjecting prisoners to chest x-rays for a tuberculosis test
unless there were already symptoms
that somebody had, you know, tested positive for the early test.
So this is very bizarre.
All right, Artijac, please continue.
You have us on the edge of our seats here.
Okay, well, as far as I know,
all 37 of us males did have ourselves subjected to radiation,
and, well, I'm sick now.
I don't know if I have anything to do with it.
No, it takes a long time, about 20 years.
No, I'm just kidding.
Yeah, and I'm about to light a cigarette.
But anyway, as far as the way we were treated,
you know, it was pretty much like what people say
about being in jail, you know.
I mean, the food was terrible.
Everything took forever.
Even after we were able to post bail, some of us,
we had to wait 6 hours for them to do background checks
and for them to make sure that they had fingerprinted us
before we could, like, go to yet another cell
and then wait for the slowest woman on the planet
to figure out, again, who we are,
even though we had wristbands that said who we were,
and then release us.
So now how long were you held altogether?
I think about 21 hours.
Amazing.
Now, they brought you 50 miles away.
Did you get a ride back or were you just left there
50 miles away from home?
Actually, that was probably the best part.
When we got out, each of us were greeted by occupiers
up there in Vista.
And, you know, they waited for us to go talk to the bondsmen
and, you know, they gave us all a ride
back down to downtown San Diego.
That's great.
But the police would not lift a finger to help you
after driving you all the way out there.
Yeah, I know.
In fact, they tried to arrest me again.
What do you mean they tried to arrest you again?
Well, I was standing outside of the bondsman's office
and I put out a cigarette.
No way to abate my existence.
Maybe I'll quit.
But anyway, this cop comes out of nowhere
and he's like,
Get that up.
I'm going to arrest you.
Oh, my God.
I'm like, oh, man.
This is the Paul Buzzo Act of 1962 or whatever it is,
coming back to haunt me.
Well, wow.
Now, did you see anything happening
while you were confined?
Any particular stories of injustice
that you might want to share?
Injustice.
Well, not really.
I mean, you know, I mean, cops are cops
and they're going to do what cops do
and they're going to make it very difficult for you.
I mean, as far as it being only for us occupiers,
I don't know.
I think I've pretty much already explained everything.
Can you tell us something about the Occupy San Diego camp
before this happened,
what the mood was like, what the setting was like?
Well, I know that one of the things was that people,
okay, we had just gotten a new medical tent
and they were getting that set up
and then maybe not so bright occupiers
decided that it might be a good idea
to start bringing tents back into our camp.
So there were more tents,
and I think that might have, you know,
sparked some interest with the cops.
The tents were completely forbidden?
They had been, we had had another raid
like a couple of weeks before that
where they had been removed
and the reason they were removed
is because they wanted to clean the Civic Center Plaza
because there was a dance,
some kind of dance competition or something going on
in one of the buildings in the Civic Center.
So yeah, I think they arrested two people that time.
That was like three weeks ago.
So yeah, nobody had had tents until that night.
So that's what leads me to believe
that maybe that was one of the things
that made them want to move in.
Now, where was Occupy San Diego set up?
Say what?
Where was it set up exactly?
Where is the Civic Center?
The Civic Center is pretty much like MacDab
in the middle of downtown San Diego.
It's 3rd Avenue and B Street.
And there's a space there
that you guys were camped out in?
Yes.
Okay.
Well, I mean, it's especially interesting
because you heard what was happening on livestream
or saw what was happening
and chose to head right down there.
You could have very easily just stayed at home
and watched or heard about it later on.
Right.
What is it that compelled you?
Well, one of the things was
they weren't letting the media in.
I mean, if they're going to be doing that,
somebody needs to be watching what they're doing.
And that was one thing that concerned me greatly.
Another thing was I just wanted to be there
to stand with the people that I had been standing with,
whether they were going to get arrested or not.
I ran down there.
It's about eight blocks away.
And 51 people in total were arrested in San Diego,
and that happened on Friday night?
Yes.
It was around 1.30 in the morning.
What's the situation now?
Have they regrouped?
Well, I went down there the night before last,
and people are no longer allowed to sleep
in the Civic Center plaza.
They're allowed to stand there,
and they're allowed to hold signs,
but nobody's allowed to fall asleep
or look like they're falling asleep.
Look like they're falling asleep.
Oh, boy.
Yeah.
Okay.
And the police are just looking for anybody
to do any minor infraction in there.
When I went there,
the police had barricaded the entrance
to the Civic Center plaza
so that only one person could enter or leave it at a time,
which I thought was kind of interesting.
And, you know, of course, they were standing there
like they have been the whole time.
Out in front of the Civic Center buildings,
there's a little grassy area,
and I know that a lot of people are sleeping there right now,
but it's my opinion that it's just a matter of time
before the police move in on that, too.
Well, if they do, I hope the eyes of the world
are fixated on this and all the other places
where people are putting themselves on the line.
It's a very disturbing story to hear this
and to know that it's being repeated in many, many places
and that we're in danger of it happening right here as well.
Well, is there any kind of contact information, websites,
anything where people can help out in whatever way they can?
For San Diego, it's OccupySD.org.
Okay.
There's all the information there.
And just about every single one of these Occupy locations
has a livestream, I believe.
Yeah.
And the address of yours, do you know?
Actually, I think we have, like, three of them
because there was some politics at the beginning.
You have three different ones.
That's awesome.
Yeah, but at least one of them is on the OccupyStream.org site
that has most of the livestreams, like, all in one place.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
I assume you can also find the links on OccupySD.org.
Well, actually,
I think politics have caused that to get removed
within the last few days,
and I'm not 100% sure about that.
But I know that I had gone there within the last few days,
and the link to the livestream wasn't there.
Well, essentially, I've been hearing similar things
in different places,
and as organizations grow and evolve,
there are going to be conflicts.
There are going to be all kinds of issues.
I've heard the same thing in New York City.
But I really think that it's how those conflicts are dealt with
that will determine the future of this movement
and whether it turns into a real movement
because these are growing pains.
This is going to happen.
You're going to always have people who disagree,
but will they stand together?
So far, so far, I think, overwhelmingly, they have.
But as the winter continues, or starts and then continues,
will this be something that survives?
I'm optimistic.
I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this.
And, Autojack, I think I speak for everybody
in applauding your courage just for heading down there
and putting yourself on the line like that
or standing up for your convictions,
whatever they may be.
I think that's something everybody should be thankful
that there are people willing to do that.
That's what this country is all about.
Well, I'm proud of what I did.
I don't really want to have to go through it ever again.
Like you said, it's what this country is about.
It's what being human is about.
So, you know, what we've gone through
during, like, this last industrial revolution
as a people is, you know, a lot of it's not right.
So, you know, I'm going to have to stand up to it.
Mm-hmm.
Well, you know, if more people did that,
I think a lot less people would be victimized
and being arrested and things like that.
People would realize this is a force to be reckoned with.
So, now, where do you stand?
You're out on bail, I believe.
Are you going to go back to be charged or something?
What happens now?
Well, we were all charged.
Some people got more than one charge,
but most people were charged with the same thing I was,
which was delaying a peace officer.
Delaying a peace officer?
Yeah.
Okay, I never heard that one before.
They're in a big hurry.
Anyway, they're in a big hurry.
Not when they're processing people, apparently.
They take their time then.
Yeah, they were on their way to dinner or something.
Anyway, so our court date is on both of us who got bailed out,
and I think there was only one person who didn't get bailed out.
And why was that?
I think there was some issue with his name or something like that.
Like, he wouldn't give up his name or something.
I don't know. I don't know all the details.
But is everyone out now?
Yeah, I believe so, yeah.
Okay, so now what's next as far as your case?
Well, I know that the National Lawyers Guild is behind us.
Those are the best people in the world, by the way.
I just want to say that, National Lawyers Guild.
I know. You told me that the other day.
Some other people told me, you know, also you had a second opinion.
I may do that, but being that I just became unemployed on Monday,
I don't know how realistic that is.
You lost your job on Monday?
Yeah.
That's incredible. So after this nightmare of a weekend,
you find out that you've lost your job a couple of days later.
It was related, but I don't really think that it was.
I wasn't the only one who got laid off.
Okay, but, you know, it's related to this whole thing, one way or another.
Well, yeah.
So many people are going through. Wow.
Talk about adding insult to injury.
So, all right, and then in the future, what do you have to look forward to now?
What do I have to look forward to? Going back to sleep?
No, no, I mean with regards to this case, what's going to happen next?
Oh, you know, we're going to go to court on December 9th.
I have a feeling most of us, I mean, I haven't talked to the lawyer yet,
so I don't know what they're going to say,
but they're probably going to say that we should plead not guilty
and ask for a trial by jury because, you know, we're all, you know,
it's our right as citizens to have a trial by jury.
Absolutely, and I think you'd be amazed by public support in the oddest places.
People really get it sometimes.
We believe they don't based on the mass media,
but when you actually talk to people in the street, a lot of them really get it.
I watched this really bizarre piece that someone linked me.
It was produced by Fox News.
It was about the program Democracy Now, which is on this station,
and the woman from Fox News said on Fox News that a poll showed that
a majority of Americans support the Occupy movement,
and she managed to say it in such a dismissive tone of voice
that it sounded like she wasn't saying it,
but if you listen to the words, people support this movement.
See, they're good.
They know how to twist it around and make it sound bad when it's good,
but absolutely, that's Fox News for you.
Artur Jack, any last words, requests, things that we can do to help?
I guess if anybody's looking for a programmer or a system administrator,
you know, I'm available.
Okay, well, there's that.
You can write to OTH at 2600.com, and we'll certainly forward that along.
But I mean as far as Occupy San Diego,
anything that people can do to help that organization?
You know, just try to educate yourself and try to educate the populace
about what we're about and what we're doing and why we occupy,
and just build the numbers, and we should get through it all.
We're the people. We're going to win.
All right, let's hope so.
Thanks so much for joining us tonight,
and stay strong and know that you're doing the right thing
and that you're an honorable person.
Thank you.
All right, take care.
You too.
Artur Jack joining us from San Diego,
where he was one of 51 people arrested last Friday
at the Occupy San Diego crackdown and raid.
That's pretty incredible,
and I fear that we're going to be seeing more of that.
Now, something I'd like to address,
because I imagine there are listeners out there
sort of banging their hand into their head or something,
saying, how is this relevant to the computer underground?
How is this relevant to the hacker world?
Why are we talking about this?
And there are just so many tie-ins to the things
that we've been talking about over the years,
whether it be people arrested for very little reason
and held under barbaric conditions,
the misunderstanding of the mass media,
how they insist on getting the story wrong,
demonizing the wrong people,
how technology is being used against us,
and how the individuals are always seen as evil
and the people that are the real threat.
And there are all kinds of tie-ins to this particular movement
with Anonymous and with facts and figures about Wall Street
and inequities and things like that.
It's history. It's happening around us.
It's happening everywhere.
We need to take an interest in this.
We need to be involved in this.
Hackers, the computer world, technological experts,
we can all help this become so much better,
so much more together strengthened
if our communities work as one.
I've seen that happen.
I've seen that happen in a lot of places so far.
I've seen people really getting involved,
and it's an amazing thing to see young people especially
realizing they can make a difference
and lending their expertise
and sharing their knowledge and their skills.
And once you do that,
you learn something that you're not supposed to learn.
You learn how much power you actually have in your hands
if you simply believe in yourself
and join up with other people and work together.
So that's the relevance.
And like it or hate it, that's what we're talking about.
And by all means, give us a call, 212-209-2900.
As we're not asking for money anymore,
now we're asking for your feedback
and your information and your ideas
of ways the hacker world can help and strengthen all this.
Bernie?
I'm here.
I'm sorry. I thought you had something to say.
Well, you know, it would be good to personally visit
the nearest Occupy compound or scene.
Yeah, I don't think compound is quite the right word.
The noun form, Bernie, of Occupy is occupation.
Okay.
It would be worthwhile for our listeners to,
if they haven't already,
to visit the nearest Occupy occupation
and speak with the people there.
And, you know, form your own opinions
based on what those people have to say.
You may find you have more in common with them
than you think if you actually talk face-to-face
with some of these people.
Well, there's a real diversity of opinion down there
in every place you go to.
So you will find somebody you agree with
and you'll find people you disagree with.
But it's how these people work together
towards a common goal that will determine
if this is successful or not.
And I've got to say,
it really is nice to hear the word occupation
used in a positive context,
not what the United States is doing
to another country, perhaps,
as we've heard for the last decade or so
every time that word is spoken.
All right, we have some calls.
Mike, since the phone is close to you,
I'm going to leave you with the job
of pressing the buttons.
And I also don't want to disconnect Bernie, yes,
because he's on a different line today.
All right, we'll try this one.
Okay.
And good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Yes, let me turn off my radio.
Yes, please turn down your radio.
And that's a warning to everybody calling in.
Please turn down your radio
because you'll get feedback.
It's off now.
But thank you for taking my call.
And, you know,
as I was listening to you guys speak,
it just resonates with me.
And I'm just wondering
how late in the game people actually think it is.
And I think that that determines
exactly their level of participation.
You know, there are so many
vibrant ideas that are out there.
And you ask the question
of how the hacker world can help.
And I think that they can help
as far as technology is concerned
by deconstructing the myth
that all we have to do is vote
and everything will be okay.
And I'm not talking about the type of vote
that the General Assembly are constructing,
but the old way of voting
by exposing those,
the new technology in the voting machines
for the fraud that it actually is.
And people say,
well, okay, we have candidates in place.
We have a system of voting
that has been working
for the last 200 years in America.
And now all we need for you guys to do
is vote for the candidates
that we put out there for you,
and we will do the rest.
And we know that those Diebold machines
have been exposed for what they are.
And I think those people in the hacker world
that know exactly what they're doing
before the elections,
they expose them to the rest of the world
for the fraud that they are.
So we don't get confused
in thinking that all we have to do is vote
in 2012 and things are going to be okay.
I don't care who you vote for.
Just the idea that voting
will make everything better.
If you really think about it,
the game is so late.
It's in the ninth inning,
and there are two outs.
And that's why I participate.
Right. Well, I mean, voting is only
deciding on something,
the lesser of two evils
or the better of two good things.
But someone has already decided
who those participants will be.
It's a whole process leading up to Election Day.
And yes, we have to get involved in that.
Thanks so much for that call.
Very, very good points brought up.
Dotret?
Yeah, he makes a very good point.
You know, just voting for candidates
basically is outsourcing your power
to other people who may or may not be good
as opposed to actually participating
and actually having a real democracy.
All right, let's take another phone call.
212-209-2900.
And good evening.
You're on Off The Hook.
Hi.
Hi. What's on your mind?
I'm turning my radio down.
Okay.
Okay, a couple of things.
I've been asking around.
I live uptown,
I guess you call it on the east side.
And what I've been hearing is
when I talk about it going down there,
when I talk about it to anybody,
they all say,
oh, no, you can't get there
because there's a little barricade.
You can't get near the place.
Not at all true.
You can walk right in.
So that's important to know.
And can you tell me how you get there?
Well, are you coming by mass transit?
I guess subway would be the best thing.
I would take the R train to Cortland Street.
Is that the best?
I mean, it depends where you're coming from, Mark.
She's coming from the upper east side, she said.
Yeah, so take the...
Is there a 1 or...
I know the 1.
What would you do is you could take the 4, 5, or 6
and transfer at Union Square to the NR line.
No, just take the 4 to Brooklyn Bridge or something.
What if the 4 isn't there?
You hop on the local first.
I don't know my way around down there.
Anyway, you could look at a map,
but the point is it's just a couple blocks
north of Wall Street itself
near the western end of Wall Street.
Yeah, get off at Cortland Street
or any of the stops down there.
Just walk into...
It's right off Broadway.
You can't miss it.
Walk down Broadway, you'll see Zuccotti Park.
And it's really...
We were just there before the show.
It's a very positive vibe filled with people.
I was amazed.
I thought...
I was afraid maybe...
I hadn't been here in a week or so.
Maybe it had started to shrink.
Maybe the excitement is going down.
Not at all.
It's just as vibrant as ever.
It's almost like something unbelievable is happening
because I've been to so many things like this
and I've always seen it kind of peter out
at a certain point,
and this is not petering out.
This is growing.
Every single time I go there,
it's evolved a little bit more
and you're getting a real community.
With the real community,
you get problems with the real community,
and that's something that...
Again, how you deal with that
is going to determine the future of that community.
But by all means,
anyone within the sound of our listening signal,
please come down to Zuccotti Park.
Check it out.
See for yourself what it's all about.
It's an amazing experience.
Anybody could take the subway,
and you're mentioning which one?
Take the 4 to Wall Street from the Upper East Side.
4 to Wall Street.
The 4 stops on Wall...
I'm sorry.
Yeah, it does stop right on Wall Street,
and then you just walk up a few blocks.
Yeah, that's a good idea.
Okay, that sounds good.
And now one other thing,
and that is there was someone...
It was a priest or whatever
from the Riverside Church.
This was a couple of weeks ago, I think,
and he mentioned on WBAI
that they desperately needed tents,
clothing,
anything warm to keep warm.
And so I had called and left a message saying,
I have brand-new boots and things,
coats and things,
but I wouldn't be able to carry that stuff all the way down.
And so I went to the local church here
and explained it,
and he said that we could use the vestibule of his church,
which is quite enormous,
if anybody wanted to bring things there,
but he wouldn't be able to provide services
to sort and deliver and everything.
Do you know of anybody,
any group or anything where...
Because I've spoken to other people
who are up here in the higher,
like 70th Street,
and they're older, like I am,
beyond senior citizen,
and it would be difficult to try
to be carrying stuff down to there.
Is there anyone...
There are people up here.
I haven't met anyone who is not 100% in favor
of the whole occupation.
Well, I'll tell you what.
We have a van, the 2600 van.
We've already offered to shuttle things into the city,
bring equipment, whatever is needed.
We can check with some of the people there,
see if anything that you have is needed,
be happy to simply drive down from the east side
or the west side or whatever
and bring these things to the people that need them.
If we don't do it, I'm sure somebody will,
and we'll keep checking on the Occupy New York City websites
and ask around and things like that.
Thanks so much for your support
and just for thinking about this.
It really matters, makes a huge difference,
and it's just great to see so many people pitching in.
Yeah, that's a really great question.
Also, since we're short on time,
if you have any more questions about that
or would like to take Emanuel up on that offer,
just email us at oth at 2600.com,
and we can answer and contact anyone that might need to be.
All right.
oth at 2600.com, yes.
Let's try to take one more phone call really quickly.
We only have about a minute.
The lines are all full.
They are full, they really are.
Not awful, they're all full of people.
That's what I said, yeah.
Tom from the Bronx here.
Hey, what's up?
I want to say the city and the authorities
were very disingenuous
when they wouldn't let the porta-potties
into Zuccotti Park.
That's a very good question.
I was just asking that today.
Porta-potties are not allowed.
The other spaces I've seen have them.
Why?
Why make people miserable?
Why make businesses miserable
by forcing everybody to trudge over
and use their facilities?
Yeah, but wait a minute now.
That's a death knell
because in the papers, if you notice,
they're jumping on the story.
The media was jumping on the story
where a restaurant had to lay off
their workers.
We only have 30 seconds, so please wrap it up.
What I'm getting at is
let them put the porta-potties in there
because not to let them put the porta-potties in there
is telling them get lost.
Yeah.
And then they have a backup system.
They say, well, the place smells
from the urine and the poop.
It doesn't, actually.
Well, no, no, no.
But they're saying that.
They're saying that.
There's illustrations in the daily news and all
in the, like, political cartoon.
Okay, I'm sorry.
We're going to have to stop there,
but yeah, people do say that,
but people who haven't been there say that.
And I can tell you,
as somebody who has been inside police precincts,
they smell more.
They really do.
Sorry, but I had to say it.
All right, here's something else that I want to do
to kind of help out the cause.
Music.
Music is very important.
Every week, I want to play something related to this
that we find out about,
that somebody puts out.
There's all kinds of songs coming out
about Occupy Wall Street
and Occupy other places as well.
So we're going to start this week
with a band called Eyes of the Elders,
and this is a song that has just,
obviously, recently come out.
If you know something good
that you'd like us to feature,
if you're a musician
and you want to be featured every week at this time
for the indefinite future,
we'll feature a song having to do with this,
having to do with this new movement.
And we're going to go out with Occupy
by Eyes of the Elders.
Thanks for listening to Off the Hook.
oth at 2600.com is our address.
2600 meetings this Friday,
various parts of the world.
Check www.2600.com slash meetings.
Good night.
Good night.
Just got home
I found a notice in the mail
They're going to raise our power bill
Duke Energy fell
Food crimes every year
with medication and gas
Mass inflation
costs rise with the math
You're telling me I'm human
that I'm not indestructible
$250 a month
with a five grand deductible
Healthcare scam
preventive medicine works
But that's not lining the pockets
of these lobbyist jerks
Pharmaceuticals, corn,
babies, bacon, and beer
It's a corporate world, homie
You didn't hear?
Educate, innovate, spread the word
It's autonomous
D is for vendetta mass
E is for monotonous
Suck my hippopotamus
Remove hypocrites
I'll wipe your corporate bonus
with my butt as I spit
Singing USA, USA
Watch people grow slowly like hot dogs
If you don't love this country
maybe you should just leave
Shut the fuck up and wake up
you teabagging beef
Gee Wally, I don't know
I thought the patriotic men
watching 1% make
all the money we spend
While then American millions
got decisions to make
It's either keep the lights on
or put food on the plate
I know a lot of people
hate a lot of things about others
But that's how they divide us
That's how they're beating our brothers
That's how they're macing our sisters
That's how they're infecting our steepest
That's how they're stealing from us
And turning gold into eagles
And I never met Jesus
But I know that it's true
If he were living today
he'd be marching with you
And yes, I never met
Abraham, Muhammad, or King
But if they were around
I'm sure they'd help me sing
We'd sing USA, USA
Watch people roll slowly
like hot dogs
O-C-C-U-P-Y
Wall Street, all streets
Main Street, my street
Your street
Occupy, expose the lies
Need a couple reasons
Here's 105
O-C-C-U-P-Y
Wall Street, all streets
Main Street, my street
Your street
Occupy, expose the lies
Need a couple reasons
Here's 105
Same assholes run the prisons
Run the schools
And they make more money
When we break all their rules
So we're taught to be fools
And they hand us the tools
Never explain what they do
And how they're used
Now I walk in my shoes
And I got a short fuse
Occupy Wall Street
With nothing left to lose
Radio, newspaper, all propaganda
Television, programming
You are the channel
Radiation, serenation
Mindful of condensation
Patriotic, patriots
Suspending the animation
You're a Bugs Bunny
And Doc has a carrot
Duck it for everyone
Why can't we share it?
Fake debt ceiling
Summer was a drama
All I want to hear is
Bobo Obama
Hoagie party
Nothing but some racists
They be anonymous
We all remain faceless
Herman Cain house
Nigga out front
Porsche monkey
Trust you about as much
As a strung out orange
Young Congress is a brothel
Mentalist Gestapo
Another Tyler Durden
Call me El Sogato
USA, USA
Watch people roll slowly like hot dogs
USA, USA
Watch people roll slowly like hot dogs
OCCUPY
Wall Street
All streets
Main street
My street
Your street
Occupy
Expose the lies
Need a couple reasons
Here's a hundred and five
OCCUPY
Wall Street
All streets
Main street
My street
Your street
Occupy
Expose the lies
Need a couple reasons
Here's a hundred and five