The time is 1900 hours here in New York City and you're listening to WBAI New York time once again for off the hook
I hope that's understood, one day we'll know
And good evening to everybody, the program is off the hook, Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening
Joined tonight by Mike, hello, .ret, hello, Rob T. Firefly, good evening
And down in Philadelphia do we have Bernie S.
Bernie S is in Philadelphia, good evening
Good evening and I hear that we don't have Mr. Wine with us, the wine is gone
Nobody is whining tonight, that's great
Not the good wine, the good wine we still have, but the high pitched squeal I guess, that's gone
Okay, well that's something, that's a loss this week that I can deal with
Man, you know I gotta say, of holidays, I don't usually spend the holidays in the states
And now I know why, because boy it's depressing, there's something about it that just really gets me down
And you know it's nice to see people and all that kind of thing, but
Am I alone in this? It just seems rather grim
And you kind of take stock of where you are and not where you want to be
And just all these things are happening that seem negative
And then all of a sudden, as if it's like to fill some sort of quota, all these people start dying
Yeah, no it's true, and it's really sad, it's actually hit us rather hard here at the radio station
Because, well there's a couple of examples, I'll give them right now
Some of you who may have listened over the past couple of decades might know the name Lynn Samuels
Lynn was one of the stars of BAI I think, she was just an incredible person
And she later went on to work in conservative radio, WABC, not as a conservative, actually the token liberal
And I remember hearing her the night of the election between George W. Bush and Al Gore
Where it was announced initially that Bush had won
And I remember listening and she was the person saying, now wait a minute, this isn't over yet, there's something wrong here
And I was listening in my car, as I think we were on on Tuesdays at that time
And we had been on that night and I was driving home and I'm hearing this voice of hope
That hey, maybe it's not eight long years of George W. Bush coming up
And the Iraq war and all kinds of other things that will be happening as a result
Maybe we're going to go in a different path
Obviously that didn't work out, but it was the start of an interesting period of time anyway
Anyway, on Christmas Eve, Lynn Samuels passed away at the age of 69 at her apartment in Woodside
She had been doing a radio program on Sirius, they have a liberal channel on Sirius
I guess that's where people can just go to hear liberal talk
Seems kind of strange to just divide things up
I like to have a surprise liberal in the middle of a radio station or a surprise conservative or things like that
But that's kind of how the audio is turning out
I'd just like to play an excerpt from a recent show, I think this is from last month
That Lynn Samuels did for Sirius
And in case you're wondering what she sounded like, who she was, if you were familiar with the voice
She had a very distinctive voice, very distinctive way of expressing herself
This is Lynn Samuels
I don't know what's going on, I was trying to fix my phone thing
That hasn't worked, this is the second weekend
And then we couldn't speak to one another
Everything was just screwed up
It's just in keeping with the zeitgeist
You wake up like 7 in the morning
Well that means if you're on the west coast you're just waking up
But I try to get up by 7 every day
Although sometimes that stretches to 9
And of course what are we used to?
We're used to now you wake up at 7am and it's pitch dark
But not today, today the sun was out
Of course that's all going to come back to bite us in the ass
By like 4 in the afternoon when it's pitch dark
So everybody's like off balance, right?
Yes, the voice of Lynn Samuels
Of course she didn't always just talk about weather
She would switch from weather to world politics
To history, to all kinds of things like that
It was just a lot of fun listening to her
You never knew where she was going to take you
And that's sort of the magic of radio
I'm reading here in this story from the Daily News
How after she was let go from WABC
In case people think that radio is some big glamorous business
Even in commercial radio, no it's really not
After that she struggled to stay here in New York City
Took a job in a laundromat
Yes, imagine that, Lynn Samuels working in a laundromat
And eventually went to Sirius XM and did some radio there
Real sad loss on Christmas Eve
Whether you agree or disagree with what she was actually saying
Just her voice alone is worth the trip
That's one of the most New York-y voices ever to come out of New York
I remember she had a run-in with some national broadcaster
Who said she sounded too New York-y
And she said, you mean too Jewish
Because that's what that means when you say that
Needless to say she did not get that job
I think she was one of the treasures here in New York
It's just hard to imagine something like that happening
And as if that wasn't enough
On the same exact night
We lost one of our most consistent listeners
I don't know if you remember
First of all, Lynn was a big fan of Off the Hook as well
I talked to her on a number of occasions
And she listened to this program
But there was a listener who listened to every program
And he would call every program
And invariably take things off-topic
And wind up talking about internal station politics
And things like that
Of course I'm talking about Monroe
And for those of you who have not heard
Yes, Monroe also passed away on Christmas Eve
What a year, what a week
And what I'd like to do here
Is play an excerpt from our show
Which I believe is from 2005
This was when I was doing my round-the-world trip
And I was actually on the Trans-Siberian Express
At the time
RedHack was engineering here
And of course we got a phone call from Monroe
And he made an interesting suggestion
And Jim was also in the studio
Jim's not with us tonight
But Jim was in the studio
He kind of put his foot in his mouth, I think
I'm sure Mike, you'll back me up on this
But it was an interesting exchange
And just a typical Monroe experience
One that I think we're going to miss here at the radio station
Let's take a listen from 2005
All right
And...
Good evening, you're on the air
Oh, hello
Listen, I think it would be nice
If part of the staff of this program
Were made composed of women
We'd love to
And even a young person
I mean, it's tiresome to hear the computer program
And you're off the hook
And you don't have any, like, staff women
And you know, WBAI, the LSB
They have surveyed this
And then they say
We've got to do something about it
And nothing ever gets done
Well, I'd like to make an appeal then
If you're a young, attractive, computer-savvy woman out there
The sound you're hearing now
Is the sound of me throwing things at Jim
I don't think that you have to use the word attractive
Because the beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Intelligence that would be purveyed by a person
Who another person might not care to marry
I agree with you, too
But they're going to be sitting here with us
I think, Jim...
Why am I hearing this voice in Siberia, for God's sake?
Anything out there about freedom of speech, Emanuel?
It's good to know you're still alive
I'm sorry, I don't see any free speech out here
Just a lot of trees
I mean, I don't know what's going on about the world
People are censoring me
They think all I'm going to talk about is the station
But actually, I'm laboring to go through instruction books
I make a plea that people who write instruction books
Think about as if they didn't know anything
When they write it
And not sort of know everything
And don't mention what this is
I never heard of an escape button
And then all of a sudden
I'm finding out about an escape button
Yeah, I'm right in the upper left corner
So listen, guys
The best of everything
Please try and be diversified, you know?
Carry on, get other callers, please
Okay
All right, we'll do that
I can't believe how surreal that was
Hearing Monroe's voice here on the Trans-Siberian Express
Am I the only person that's ever happened to?
Probably
Oh, wow, Monroe
That was something
And there was also a rarity there
That Monroe was the one who hung up
We tended to let Monroe say his piece
And sometimes he actually had something relevant to say
And I think in that particular case, he certainly did
Diversify and expand and things like that
Boy, we're going to miss him as well
I remember that call, actually
I wasn't on the show yet, of course
But in the place I was working at the time
I had the show on
And I remember cracking up at that
Yeah, that was something
That was special
That was a lot of fun
That was Trans-Siberian Express
And taking phone calls somehow back here
You know, usually at this time of year
I'm over in Germany
And at the Chaos Communication Congress
Obviously I'm not there, I'm here this year
Getting depressed in New York
But it's happening
They decided to go ahead and have it without me, apparently
And...
I mean, you had like five minutes to get a ticket
You missed the window
Well, actually, I had a token
I could have gotten a ticket at any time
How do I get a token?
You have to be an angel
I have to die to go to the CCC Congress?
It's worth it, believe me
But no, you know, it's just
I don't like falling into ruts
I don't like doing the same thing year after year
And, for instance, I can guarantee
I won't be doing this again next year
I think you learned your lesson
Well, you just got to diversify, as Monroe said
So, I'm going to take his advice
But, yeah, so it's going on anyway
Out there in Berlin
And, okay
Now, I know, Bernie, you're a big fan of this
We're actually going to try to have a Skype connection over there
This never works
But, apparently, it's the only way that we can reach people
And, well, apparently, there are people there
That maybe can talk to us
If someone can tell me what buttons to hit
Oh, that looks like Bicycle Mark on the screen there
Unfortunately, our listeners can't see him
He's sporting a nice hat there
And, yeah
This is really exciting, but it's not very good radio
Bernie, yes, go ahead
You have something to say
I was just laughing at the thought of Bicycle Mark there
Remotely wearing an amusing hat
Maybe we'll get lucky tonight with the Skype connection
And we'll hear some...
You want to try getting lucky?
As lucky there?
Feedback
Oh, you don't mean the person lucky
You mean... Oh, okay
I see what you mean now
It says playing voicemail greeting
Voicemail greeting
Well, I guess we could hear that
So, we're trying to call him on Skype
And it's going to Skype voicemail or something
All right
We told him we'd speak to him in a few minutes
And so, maybe he went away
A few minutes metric or American?
They're over there in Germany
Euro minutes
Euro minutes, okay
Well, that's the important thing
Is there a button I should hit to try again?
Or dial him or something?
Yeah, the button that says call
Try that one
Button that says call
I don't see a button that says call
It's green
Oh, up there, okay
Yeah
I'll click that
Yeah, but what happens to the answers?
What do I have to have potted up?
That I can't tell you
All right
You're the engineer
Okay
Of course, if we do get him
There's no guarantee he's going to be able to hear us
Yeah, it's great to have these things all worked out
Okay, we do have a lot of news to go over too, though
But anyone else have any depressing news
That they want to share to get it all out of the way?
No?
I mean, did anybody see the Kim Jong-il funeral yesterday?
That was...
That actually...
You know, not to disrespect
It did cheer me up a little bit
Not only...
Not to death
But just watching it
Watching it live at a Pyongyang
Was simply amazing
Just seeing something so unusual and so different
It was...
There were never live pictures at a Pyongyang
Never
Yeah, I don't think I even knew they had the facilities
The satellite ground stations or whatever
Well, I think what happened was
Maybe South Korean stations picked it up
And rebroadcast it
Although they did say that North Korea was providing it to the world
But they weren't telling anybody what they were going to do or when
And supposedly, it's a two-day funeral
That's how momentous this is over there
They're going to start it up again
And around midnight our time, I think
Is when you can start seeing things on channels like BBC
Or Euronews
Or Al Jazeera
Even CNN International will be showing this
I understand they've just gotten BBC World News on Comcast Cable
So if you're a Comcast Cable subscriber
Yeah, you and Cablevision now
Get BBC World News in the United States
It's amazing how long it takes to get these things
How nice of Comcast
Isn't that something?
No one gets Al Jazeera English yet
I get that on my Canadian dish
But we're making slow progress
Maybe one day we'll convert to the metric system too
Who knows
Okay, now it says recording voicemail
So we're recording a voicemail to Bicycle Mark right now
Oh, that's rude
We should hang up
No, what's rude is not picking up
And we'll just fill up his voicemail
However long that takes
How can you fill up a Skype voicemail?
I don't know
There was a Skype voicemail before this moment
Okay, do you want to maybe SMS or something?
Because I think that works better than what we're doing here
You know, as long as we're recording a voicemail
He most likely will not be picking up the call
Yeah, what if he came in on call waiting though?
Is there such a thing as call waiting on Skype?
I am so out of it technologically
Let's talk about some of the other things that are happening
And then if Bicycle Mark can join us, that would be great
So we're talking about the SOPA bill
Stop Online Piracy Act
Is that the proper...
We supposedly have Bicycle Mark
I don't know how to hear him though
We have him
Okay, it says...
Alright, well, you know
Let me bring this up
If there is a Bicycle Mark online
Hang on, which...
Is it this one here?
It's one of these, I think
Okay, I hear noise
Alright, Bicycle Mark, are you there?
Yeah, I just hear noise
I hear noise
Can he hear us?
Check, check, check
Okay, that's Bicycle Mark
But apparently the same old problem
He can't hear us
Alright
Maybe you can text him
To just give a summation or something like that
Since apparently we haven't yet mastered this
We have another route to reach him
We'll try that
Another route to reach him?
Okay, alright
Hopefully it will play out before the hour is up
So anyway, Stop Online Piracy Act
That has not gone away
As we've been reporting
Time was bought
We were sort of bemoaning the fact that
Not enough people knew about it
It was about to come to a vote
And possibly become law
And it was something that really would have
Screwed up the internet something fierce
Where United States would have all this power
Somehow to basically take over domains
And prevent them from being reached
And apparently this has gotten a lot bigger
A lot more interesting
Because one of the big registrars
Specifically GoDaddy
Apparently had supported SOPA
They had supported this legislation
And word got out that they supported it
And then they decided to change their minds
And not support it anymore
But that sort of worked against them
Because they
I don't know
Maybe it was something in the way they did it
But it basically led to a campaign
For people to switch away from GoDaddy
If they had a particular domain
With that registrar
And in the last few days
I think something like 40,000 domains
Have been transferred away from GoDaddy
Oh yeah
You know, just the second that I even heard
That they were supportive
That didn't matter if they decided to change their opinion
It's already too late
I will never use them
And anyone I ever speak to
Who's thinking of a domain to use
The word of mouth they get from me
Will be use XYZ, don't use GoDaddy
Okay, but here's the thing
There's this other company called Namecheap
Their arch rival called Namecheap
Arch rival
Yeah, they've been pushing
To get people to switch to them
I imagine Namecheap has been public
With their stance on SOPA
They're probably saying that they're against SOPA
But how about all the other registrars
That haven't taken part in this
Do we know where they stand?
Is it just GoDaddy that's being targeted here
Or are they the only ones that supported SOPA?
We could try sending out a form letter
To a whole batch of them
And see, you know, see what sticks
See if we get any responses
We can also, we have a lot of listeners
Who probably use a lot of registrars
So if you use a web host
Or a domain registrar
And you don't know where they stand on SOPA
And you're interested in knowing
Send them an email
Or get in touch with them and find out
And then let us know
Mike, why do you think everybody
Is picking on GoDaddy here?
What's unique about this?
They're one of the few internet companies
To publicly come out
And be on the official list of supporters
Of the SOPA bill
Which I didn't even know bills
Had official list of supporters
But this one does
When did this become known though?
Because it seems to have only become known recently
And SOPA has been talked about
For a number of weeks at least
Yeah, so it was fairly recently
That this list came out
I don't know when it was compiled
The whole thing's a bit of a mystery
But what's really been interesting to watch
Has been GoDaddy's response
Where they said
They issued this blog post saying
Oh no, people are leaving us
We're against SOPA now
But they have not withdrawn their name
From the list of supporters
They have not started using
Their lobbying resources to oppose the bill
They're just trying to like
Cover up the PR mess
Without actually doing any good
What can GoDaddy do at this stage
To save their business?
Change their name
Good one
But other than that
There's all kinds of reasons
Not to do business with them
In the first place
They're incredibly sexist advertising
Their founder goes and shoots elephants
And their product is just terrible
But beyond all that
You can't really control
What the founder does in his spare time
Some founders shoot people
Some shoot elephants
But okay, point taken
They're one of
Sexist advertising?
Yeah, just go on their website
And you'll see it
Okay, alright
And their product is one of the few
That is sort of
Intentionally designed to be hard to use
In the hopes that it will cost you more money
Like how?
They add things to your shopping cart
That you don't want
Oh, you're trying to check out
All these little things
But you have to keep going
To proceed to checkout
And it takes forever
Right, right
And this is on purpose
Because they think you'll mess up
And buy something you don't want
But they can't be the only ones doing that
No, but
But the market is sufficiently competitive
That you can choose someone who doesn't
And I recommend that you make that choice
It just seems that this name cheaper
I've never heard it before
They're sort of
Riding on the coattails of this
And trying to, you know
Get everybody to go to them
But are they necessarily the best choice?
I've not used their service
People on the internet say it's nice
But who knows
The thing about GoDaddy is
They're sort of the ubiquitous
They're one of the big guys
They're sort of this ubiquitous
Walmart type of organization
I mean, they have TV commercials on
During daytime television
For a domain registrar
Which is, of course, still a bit unusual
That must confuse people
Watching soap operas
Yeah, and they're sort of
They're sort of the big ones
With bad service
And, you know, obnoxious advertising and stuff
But people know about them
So they have comparatively loud voice
As far as domain registrars go
But then you have something like
Network Solutions
Which used to be the default
And they're much more expensive
And I don't think they're the good guys
Are they?
As far as going against SOPA
And things like that
Are they?
Yet I don't see them being targeted
They're not on this list of
There's a list of a few hundred companies
Which have signed a letter saying
Hey, Congress, we support SOPA
Why would they support SOPA, though?
How is it good for them?
More domain registration fights
Means more business for them, I guess
I don't know, maybe they're just dumb
I have no idea why they supported it
Yeah, interesting
All right, well, I guess
What lesson can be learned here
For other businesses out there
That might be deciding
How to deal with controversial issues?
At least occasionally
Censorship is a bad business model
All right, I guess that's something to
And if you find yourself on the wrong side
What's the best way to deal with it?
Get on the right side
But they claim they did that
But apparently not enough
No, they claim
Issue
Do more than issue a press release
Write to the people
You sent your original letter to
Telling them you've withdrawn your support
You spend money on lobbyists
To undo the damage that you've done
There's all kinds of things they could do
None of which they have done
Okay
Well, everything that Mike says is very good
There's the issue of simply trust
Once you've seen them step on the wrong side
Of whatever line it is you're looking at
It's hard to say, you know
That I trust them now
We didn't even know about this
They didn't tell anyone
Yeah, and there's also the
Very easy step of just voting with your wallet
If you don't like what a company's doing
Don't do business with them
And with something like a domain registration
You could be onto another registrar
Within a few clicks
And, you know, it'll cost you a little bit of money
There were some GoDaddy customers
That had thousands upon thousands of domains
And some really high-profile ones
Wikipedia, I think, was discussing
Getting rid of GoDaddy
And, you know, that organization is, I think
Pondering that
And, of course
They're one of the biggest websites in the world
This is interesting, though
Because, like I said a few weeks ago
It seemed like not enough people were talking about it
Now, all of a sudden
It's become a huge story
And this is the lead
That GoDaddy is suffering as a result
But people are at least talking about SOPA
I think it's going to be a lot harder
To pass this act now, isn't it?
Yeah, but, you know
GoDaddy is just one example of it
But it's very easy on the internet
To choose who you do business with
And once you've researched them
And sort of found out that
Maybe they don't agree with you
On certain points
Maybe they do
But you can sort of do your homework
Before you get into a business relationship
With someone
It's not that difficult
My sense about, though
The whole SOPA thing
Since this reprieve
Or this stretch of time
Whatever it is they're going to do
Before they go back to talking about the bill
Is that it seems like the campaigns
Have actually cooled down a little bit
I'm actually a little worried
That a number of people
Might actually think
Maybe this means
That we're safe from the bill now
Or something
I don't think we're going to fall into that
Well, I know we won't
But, you know
I'm sorry
If this backlash is any indication
The backlash
If it actually gets passed
I think will be phenomenal
Not quite sure what people will do
But it seems pretty clear
That there's a lot of opposition to this
Well, people need to pay
A lot of attention
Because when
Certain groups of people
Are very focused
On getting something passed
They'll possibly try to repackage it
In another bill
They always will, of course
You know, so
People just simply say
Okay, this bill does not get passed
It doesn't mean that
The issue is necessarily over yet
And that's where people like us
And our listeners come in
Come in very handy
For looking out for these things
There's so many things out there
It's very easy to get lost
But when something like this
Comes up the pike
In months and years ahead
We have to let people know about it
And warn them
Because, yeah
They'll try to sneak it through
For sure
Yeah, and it may seem
Like a hassle right now
To sort of those of us
Who are trying to keep
The word spreading
And keep the truth
Revealed about this
It may seem like a pain
To keep it going
But it's a lot easier
Than it would be
To get it reversed
If it gets signed into law
As we all know
So, you know
Keep at it
All right
Is there an update
On bicycle mark, Mike?
I'm going to call him
I'm going to call him
On the telephone
When we're ready
Okay, yeah
Give him a call
Call him
Make an overseas telephone call here
And hopefully not get
His voicemail
This is an actual phone call
And not using Skype at all
Exciting
Exciting
Bernie, any thoughts on SOPA
From down in Philadelphia?
Well
Registrars
That
Really any company
You do business with
Whether they support
Things we may not be for
Such as SOPA
A lot of companies
Just don't make a stand
One way or the other
Publicly
And where they really
Spend their money
Secretly
Is another issue
I really don't think
You can believe
A company say publicly
You have to really
Do some research
On where they're really
You know
What they're really
Supporting
And frankly
Go Daddy
Support of SOPA
What did that mean?
Were they funding
Organizations
That
Supported SOPA
Or were they actually
I think they were actually
Very willing to comply
And
Be part of
Shutting down
Domain names
That
That were alleged
To have
Violated copyright
Without any
You know
Court orders
Or anything
So
I do think people
Have to do their homework more
Rather than just read
What somebody said
Somebody said
They supported
Or didn't support
Now okay
And just for the people
That might be tuning in
Saying
What's the big deal
About SOPA
Can anybody just phrase
In a very simple way
Why
This is bad
To the average
Internet user
Whether they be here
Whether they be
In some other
Part of the world
Mike
You want to
Maybe grab that one
No
Okay
Dot Red
The Great Firewall
Of America
Is what people
Dub
It'll turn into
What does that mean?
Well basically
It's a reference to
The Great Firewall
Of China
Which is
Them locking down
The internet
Filtering what comes
Into the country
What people are allowed
And part of the way
That you do this
Is in at least
With SOPA
Would be
Through the filtering
Of domains
And taking down
Websites
That are
Supposed
That supposedly have
Content that's
That's infringing
Copy
Against copyrights
Or something
With fairly little
Legal
But don't they
Do that already?
They do
But not to the
Same extent
You know
They're kind of
Limited because
They don't have
The laws set
By the government
To do that
So
I think
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even though they are foreign websites,
as far as the domain's concerned,
and so they could end up losing their domain.
Imagine if other countries were doing that
and we were subject to their particular rules.
A lot of people feel like this will lead
to a fragmentation of the internet,
where you wouldn't exactly have
a single clear internet anymore,
but rather start darknetting out
all over the place because of this.
All right, Mike, you've been running around like crazy,
trying to make this Bicycle Mark connection work.
Did you actually get through?
I think so.
Do we have you, Bicycle Mark?
Yes, hello, you've got me.
Oh my goodness, wow.
And you're on the telephone.
Well, that's fine, telephones work.
So Bicycle Mark, tell us, you're in Berlin right now.
Yes, greetings from everyone's favorite yearly event
here at the 28th Chaos Communication Congress,
and it's the end of day two,
and it's still very much alive,
even now at 1.30 in the morning.
Hacker Jeopardy is going on.
I just gave my talk,
which was also a fun time for me anyway,
and everything's going as you would hope for over here.
Well, that's great.
I imagine they also had to limit the number of people going
because it just got too crazy starting a couple of years ago
where they actually had to say enough,
stay somewhere else and watch the Congress,
don't come here, same basic thing?
Yes, I mean, those are the conversations.
You don't feel it when you walk around.
I don't know if you had this feeling last year,
but when you walk around, there's room.
You can walk.
You're not standing in line for things,
although they opened up the,
I guess you can acquire one of those rockets
that goes around your neck,
like we had at camp this summer,
and a huge line suddenly appeared
going around the entire main hall,
and I asked some people online,
like, what are you waiting for?
And they said rockets.
Yeah, yeah, that sounds very familiar.
They love lines.
I don't know if they love lines,
but they sure have enough of them for getting tickets
and getting rockets or whatever else is being offered,
but it sounds like a typical chaos Congress over there,
and how many days is it going for?
It'll be going for,
we've got another two days ahead of us.
Day three is just about to begin, I guess,
or day two will never end.
You know, jeopardy, I can hear it in the room next door.
So we've got two more days of talks and events,
and of course, there's the stuff besides the talks
that is always going on in the hallways
and down in the basement.
Mitch is there.
I've been with him quite a lot today,
and he's got a great space, bigger than ever,
plenty of room for all the people
doing the different projects,
and a lot of new faces doing DIY projects
down there as well.
So, and then, you know,
I just passed a guy working on his drone
or whatever we call the flying floor propeller machines
these days, so it's just as usual,
so many things going on.
You brought up an issue that I know a lot of people,
both who are here and outside, are concerned about,
which is the size of the Congress,
and, you know, as the hacking world becomes a bit,
well, extremely popular,
or at least the numbers are so high,
and it is a big discussion here.
I know a lot of the organizers,
and they're wondering, you know,
how do you go forward in a way that's sustainable,
that still makes you feel friendly and nice,
but yet can include as many people as possible,
and it's a major headache.
They don't have a complete answer.
That's for sure.
Well, we've actually,
we've been playing around with that a little bit
for our next HOPE Conference in July,
and, you know, having discounted tickets
given out at a certain time,
and a limited number,
and trying to use that to gauge,
like, okay, how many people do we want to have,
and then cut it off,
because it might get too crowded,
might get too unpleasant.
You don't want to have,
you said you can move around there,
and that's, I know what the organizers there are after,
so that people don't feel cramped.
I mean, they had, at the camps,
both the Dutch camp and the German camp,
they had limits as to how many people
could actually be there,
because even though it's outside,
you don't want to be overcrowded,
and it just makes it a more unpleasant thing.
So, yeah, this is something that,
increasingly, conferences are dealing with.
It's also not just a matter of pleasant,
it's also a safety issue,
and depending on how open or closed the area is,
it could actually be a fire hazard
based on how many people even have there.
You know, there's all sorts of factors that come into it,
so, you know, it is a very serious issue.
Absolutely.
Any highlights over there,
talks other than your talk so far?
My highlights are always a little bit,
perhaps, not the fan favorites.
I really enjoyed a talk I saw today
on hearing aids and the bionic ear,
and hacking hearing aids,
and it was by a hearing-impaired individual
who was fantastic with her,
you know, she went from the very basic information
about how the world of hearing aids works,
the industry, getting one,
I didn't even know these things,
and she was especially talking about
what we can do with them, how can we improve them,
different people who've done sort of hacks
for their hearing aids,
and I've never seen anything like it before,
and it really caught my attention.
Wow.
I've seen Nick Farr running around in a lab coat,
there's a lot of lab coats this year.
I don't really know what to make of that,
and I guess we're all scientists.
I would keep a close eye on that,
just to make sure it doesn't get out of control.
Is this related to the space program
that was announced a few months ago?
Oh boy.
Possibly, I see a talk on the list for tomorrow,
not your grandfather's moon landing.
Mark, the rocket ship is outside the building, right?
They have the CCC rocket ship, traditionally?
Yes, the traditional rocket ship,
visible from Alexandria plot.
If you could check underneath it,
just to make sure that they haven't actually installed
some kind of ignition device,
because there was a rumor going around
they were going to do that,
and actually launch somebody into space
from the Chaos Congress,
if not this year, maybe next year,
and if they're gonna do that,
at least I'd like to get some good pictures of it,
so if you could just maybe do some, what?
They need to build a new rocket ship
if they're gonna do that,
the one they have is too nice to send off into space.
It's awesome.
I'm afraid the materials are weak.
Yeah, well their budget is limited,
they can't just keep building new rocket ships,
this isn't NASA, you know?
It's the CCC, it's better than NASA.
All right, well I'm not gonna get involved
in that turf war.
By the way, by the way, next to the rocket ship,
there's actually, just when you think this place can't,
you know, there's no more room to build something,
they've built a temporary, or set up a temporary tent,
a giant one as big as any we would see at camp,
and it's the smoker's tent that has a 24-hour DJ bar
and a general lounge.
So we made more room, apparently, at least for smokers.
I don't know how they keep making more room
in a finite building, but they do.
They're always creative with space over there.
In many ways.
So yeah, any talks you're looking forward to seeing
that have not yet occurred?
Mark, you there?
I think we might have lost him.
Oh no.
How could we lose him on a telephone?
Bicycle Mark, are you there?
All right, the transmission to Berlin
has been cut off, apparently.
Did we say something the authorities might not have liked?
Which authorities, there's so many involved.
I don't know.
International calls, you know,
they really haven't improved that much.
Did he call us, or did we call him?
We called him.
Why don't you call him back and see if we can get him
and find out if he's being interrogated by somebody.
If we said something to offend the NSA,
the German authorities, the CCC authorities,
anybody out there, please accept our apologies
and we won't do it again.
How long does it take for the phone call to go through?
Is it ringing?
It's ringing now.
It's ringing, okay, all right.
Let's have the ring play on the air.
You know, we'd like to hear the sound.
Okay.
That's the ring, that's an American ring.
Yeah, it's a U.S. number.
Really, it's a U.S. number?
Yeah.
Okay.
And what happens if this doesn't answer?
Does it go to a voicemail, or?
Yeah, it does.
Okay.
I've experienced that voicemail.
It's very exciting.
Yeah, I don't know.
Okay, so something happened to his cell phone connection,
because we're calling over there
and it's not going through for some reason.
So, I don't know.
All right, are we still talking
to him over here on the screen?
Yeah.
Okay, so maybe you can come back over
and ask him what's going on.
There's only so much running around, you know.
Yeah, all right, let's go to this other story.
We're gonna take phone calls ourselves,
because that's a lot easier for us to do,
since it's a phone system that's somewhat reliable
and doesn't have any kind of high-pitched squeal.
See, no high-pitched squeal this week,
which is a welcome relief.
So, those of us in the studio can see
that you turned the slider all the way up,
but the people on the radio, they didn't hear anything.
Right.
But you would have heard something last week
if I'd done the same thing,
because there was a high-pitched squeal.
You know, people thought, literally,
people thought that that high-pitched squeal
wasn't making it outside the radio station.
We actually had a bit of a debate about that
with some staff people, who said,
no, you can't hear that, only inside the studio.
And I was driving in my car,
and my car is not in the studio,
and I was hearing this for weeks.
And it took so long just to get people to agree
that there was a high-pitched squeal in the first place.
Not just people, but the very engineers responsible
for getting rid of the high-pitched squeal.
Everything, everything is work, you know?
You just gotta keep at it.
Okay, we also have this story
of an anonymous Robin Hood hacking attack.
Thousands of private and government organizations
are examining their accounts after hacktivists
linked to the anonymous collective
stole credit card information
from an American security firm on Christmas Eve
and used it to make donations to charities.
The attack targeted Stratfor.
What an awful name, Stratfor.
A Texas-based company which produces analysis
on international security issues for international clients,
including banks, oil companies, and police agencies.
The very fact that they would know that,
they would find a company that did that
is rather interesting.
It takes some research to do this.
Now, as well as claiming to have donated $500,000
to charities online using the stolen data,
the hackers posted parts of their haul online.
The files included more than 50,000 credit card numbers,
of which 10,000 were not expired.
87,000 email addresses and 44,000 encrypted passwords,
of which around half could be easily cracked.
That's interesting.
Major British firms such as BP, HSBC, and Tesco
are named in the files.
On Boxing Day, which was the 26th of December,
the hackers also published a sample
of what they said were emails stolen from Stratfor's servers.
Not sure I agree with the word stolen here.
Copied or accessed, things like that.
I think the files are still there.
Just a small preview of the mayhem to come
said a message attached to it,
one out of 2.7 million.
Other messages posted said the attack on Stratfor
was part of anti-SEC, an anonymous campaign
against the private security industry.
The action was also dubbed Operation Robin Hood
by supporters, prompting criticism from observers
who said the fraudulent donations
would only tie up charity staff with administration.
Probably true, but again, interesting news story
and interesting way to draw attention to various things.
I think that's absolutely fascinating.
You steal money from someone and then give it to charity
and then I'm assuming they're going to have to ask
the charity, sorry, you're not gonna get that money, right?
You're not paid.
Assuming they catch it, yeah, I would imagine so.
Or if it did make it to them,
that they're gonna ask these charities
to give the money back.
How exactly does that work?
If the charity spends it quickly,
maybe that'll be hard for them to do.
I don't know.
Do we get a bicycle mark or anything?
No?
I don't know what's going on.
Okay, something's going on over there in Berlin,
but I think we heard enough
to get an idea of what's happening.
Well, you see what happens is once the rocket launch starts,
all radio signals cut out.
Maybe I shouldn't have said that about the rocket.
Maybe that's something that was meant to be kept quiet.
I'm sorry about that.
Okay, we also have this other story.
By the way, our phone number is 212-209-2900.
Give us a call and we'll be happy to put you on the radio
and you can tell us what's on your mind.
There's this other, I guess, action going on in Congress,
the National Defense Authorization Act.
I know very little about this, admittedly,
but I'm gonna read something
and maybe somebody can explain to me
what it is I'm reading exactly.
Congress affirms that the Department of Defense
has the capability, and upon direction by the president,
may conduct offensive operations in cyberspace.
So it's kind of late for that.
I know they've been pretty offensive
in cyberspace for a while,
but I think they mean it in a different way.
Offensive operations in cyberspace
to defend our nation, allies, and interests
subject to the policy principles and legal regimes
that the department follows for kinetic capabilities,
including the law of armed conflict
and the War Powers Resolution.
The House bill contained a provision
that would clarify that the Secretary of Defense
has the authority to conduct clandestine cyberspace
activities in support of military operations
pursuant to the authorization
for the use of military force outside of the United States
or to defend against a cyber attack
on an asset of the Department of Defense.
The Senate amendment contained no similar provision.
The Senate recedes with an amendment.
The conferees recognize that because of the evolving nature
of cyber warfare, there is a lack of historical precedent
for what constitutes traditional military activities
in relation to cyber operations
and that it is necessary to affirm
that such operations may be conducted
pursuant to the same policy principles
and legal regimes that pertain to kinetic capabilities.
What in God's name am I talking about?
Does anybody understand this?
I think it's designed to be incomprehensible.
Well, obviously, yeah, it's government.
It's actually fairly easy to understand
if you've read these kinds of documents before.
They're basically trying to formalize
a bit of what they've been doing more of,
and just, it's hard to put into,
they're basically trying to flesh out
what exactly military action is there.
They're expanding their power.
They wanna have the equivalent of physical war
in cyberspace with the same kinds of authority
and powers that the government has.
Where does this stand as far as being passed?
Is it something that's imminent,
something that we have to keep an eye out for,
or something we don't know about?
Something we should keep an eye out for
because from what I've read recently,
it doesn't look like it's gonna be stopped.
It looks sort of like everyone's looking
at all these other bills like SOPA,
and they're not paying attention to the NDAA.
A lot of people are also worried about other provisions
that are also being included in that bill
aside from just the cyber security aspect,
and it's unfortunate that there's not much discussion
happening on this bill as well.
Bernie, have you been following this at all?
A little bit.
I'm concerned.
I mean, it's not like countries like the U.S.
and a lot of other countries
haven't already probably been using
offensive, what they call cyber war
against other targets for quite a while, I'm sure.
But it sounds like they're trying to make this
outside the authority of Congress,
not that Congress has really declared war
for a long time anyway,
and that's prevented us from getting into lots of wars.
But it could start a so-called kinetic war
where people actually start lobbing bombs at each other
because their economy was attacked
as a result of a major denial of service.
What is a kinetic war?
This is a phrase that's somewhat new to me.
Kinetic just means some physical object
thrown at you, like a bomb.
So the standard type of war, in other words.
Yes.
Where people throw heavy objects at each other,
which is basically what it boils down to.
So cyber attacks can lead to somebody
lobbing a missile at you, in other words.
I think, well, the U.S. has even said that.
The U.S. has said, I think, within the past year or two,
that they reserve the right to lob bombs
at anyone who attacks them through the internet.
So I just think this provides another vector
into opening up wars when you make it formally okay
to attack other countries without any oversight
from Congress, not that they really do their job anyway,
covertly via the internet.
I think that's, I think it's asking for trouble.
All right.
Well, certainly something to keep an eye on.
Yet another thing to keep an eye on.
212-209-2900.
Let's see who's out there.
And good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
Speak up, go ahead.
Hi, I think it would be great to have a cell phone
that when you call it, instead of that little tone
that you get, please-
You hear this?
You hear all the rings in the background?
That mean, how many times are you calling us?
Full disclosure here.
Let us know how many times you call us at the same time
so that you always get on first.
I just want to know.
I want to be educated.
I have my cell phone and my home phone, but getting-
That's it?
You don't use call waiting or three-way
or anything like that to get more lines?
No, not really.
But anyway- You could, you could.
Okay, but when-
I don't want to give you ideas,
but I'm just saying two seems kind of lame.
I think you've used enough time, though,
because we need to move on.
But thanks for calling, anyway.
I'm sorry, what?
It's not clear that not, not really,
that wasn't a very strong denial.
No, that's true.
You know, if he had said more in that period of time,
though, instead, all he did was talk about
how many times he's calling us.
Didn't quite seem right.
Good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
Yeah, hold on, let me turn my radio down.
Okay, you know, you could do that,
you could do that before you call us, too.
Wanted to say that what you guys are talking about
is the heart of the matter.
The heart of the matter is also the use of the authorization
of the use of military force,
which was the non-declared use
by the president of the military
for the pursuit of Al-Qaeda and its supporters.
And that's a very, very tight clause.
And if they're using, and you did cite it,
a clandestine kinetic,
which means that they could essentially,
what the Israelis did to the Gaza flotilla,
when they approached the flotilla,
they put an electronic net on all the communications.
They basically blanked them out.
And they had everything,
including direct satellite broadcast.
So this would enable the president
to conduct offensive space-based clandestine warfare,
and also drones that might put EMP or EMF fields
over certain areas to prohibit even journalistic output,
meaning frequencies that journalists might use
to get their stories out.
So this is a huge, huge thing.
And not only SOPA, but how it combines
with control of the internet
and taking out specific internet sites
that they find offensive, like WikiLeaks, maybe.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Altogether, this is a very, very important thing.
And the 1031 and 1032 provision of the 1867 bill
prohibit and allow for the incarceration indefinitely
of U.S. citizens, and possibly rendering those citizens
to other places.
Is there a particular website you could recommend to us
so our listeners can keep updated on this?
I think if you actually go to the congressional side of it
and look at the 1867 bill, it's open.
By the way, the bill has been signed.
So that means that the only thing that the president can do,
which he has claimed he would do,
is do a signing statement beyond the bill,
which might render certain portions of the bill moot.
This is very, very contentious right now,
but the bill went and passed,
and it was 94 senators that passed
and six that were against.
Wow.
You can see that the entire Congress
has been brainwashed into accepting this,
and it is the single most ominous thing
that would cause the founding fathers
to turn in their identification.
Okay, well that's something to look forward to in 2012.
We'll keep an eye on that for sure.
Thanks for that call, thanks for the information.
Yeah, our listeners always come through for us.
Good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
Yes, did you hear about the two Swedish fellows
that were also in Sweden condemned and jailed
and they were journalists.
So everything the caller just said is already happening.
And also they said that the blackouts
are going to keep happening
because all the military planes that were used
in all those movies that had to do with Tom Cruise
and all these new films,
the Pentagon did the editing and did the writing,
and that's how they were able to use those planes.
So the stories are Pentagon-directed.
I think you should know that.
All right, thanks for that info.
And of course, always when Tom Cruise is involved,
keep a very close eye because there's a lot more to that
than meets the eye as well.
Good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
Yes, I'd like to mention that when you call a cell phone.
And you're doing it again, you see?
Don't you hear that?
I'm living proof.
Yeah.
I'm keeping three ways.
You know, it's interesting, Ravel, it really is.
But next time you call,
you should talk about the actual issues,
not all the phone calls you're making.
Good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
Hi.
Did I just invite him to call again?
I think I might have by saying next time you call.
That, yeah, that wasn't an invitation, Ravel.
Go ahead, caller, you're on the air right now.
Oh, you were?
Okay, well, that was your opportunity and it's gone now.
Good evening, you're on Off the Hook.
Yes.
Hi.
What's on your mind?
Excuse me, I can't understand
how that guy gets through all the time.
And this is my fifth call
every time somebody was hanging up on me.
Well, no, what happens is the phone company
hangs up on you because they're not generating any income
because you have not connected after, say, 15 rings.
That's what happens.
It's not us hanging up on you.
All right.
I currently have Verizon for internet and phone landline.
I'm thinking of going with Time Warner for their package,
including cable, phone,
but I have no idea what kind of phone Time Warner will offer.
Well, it's a big step in anyone's life
when they decide to go to voiceover IP,
which is what a cable modem phone would be, right?
It's basically that.
The quality is pretty much the same from what I understand.
I think you get cheaper prices.
I think you get things like free information
and free services and things like that.
Some people like it better, some people don't,
but you can always go back, right?
The big downside to voiceover IP
is you need electricity to make a phone call.
So if the electricity goes out, your phone is dead.
If your electricity goes out a lot,
you might want to consider getting a universal,
uninterrupted power supply that is UPS
just to keep the modem on.
Will it even work though?
There's gotta be a power at the other end of it as well.
Well, I don't think the cable system is gonna,
the whole, what, the cable operations are gonna go out?
The power there?
Not the whole cable system,
but the local box that you talk to?
Uh-huh, maybe.
Like the box somewhere?
But where is that box?
That box is in their office somewhere.
I think they have a UPS.
I think they have a box between their office and you.
I think if the power outage were to go far enough
that you have to worry about that,
chances are you'd already have problems
with the landline anyway.
Yeah, does this go some degree
to answering your question, sir?
Yeah, it sure does.
Thanks a lot.
Thanks, I'm glad we were able to help.
Happens now and then.
Good evening, you're on off the hook.
Yep, okay, let me put you on hold.
Yeah, go ahead, put it on hold,
and we'll just go over here while we're on hold.
Good evening, you're on off the hook.
Speak up, please.
Hi, you know, I don't have patience for that, I'm sorry.
We have to sound like we're on the same planet, at least.
Good evening, you're on off the hook.
Hi.
Hi.
This sounds like a nice, normal call.
You know what it really means with this security act
is that the main thing is that they can put animal rights,
terrorists, supposed terrorists,
and ecological terrorists in this solitary confinement,
which is, they've already done it.
They have animal rights, you know,
because the whole thing is if you inhibit
one of these animal farms for making a penny,
they call you a terrorist.
That's what the whole thing is, that's what the law is.
You have to inhibit them from making money in any way,
and then you are a terrorist,
just like a fucking terrorist, excuse me.
Okay, and good evening, you're on off the hook.
Okay, yes, what I was mentioning about the cell phones
was that it wouldn't be nice to have,
like, instead of when you call a cell phone it has music,
you know, it says, you know, to have music,
wouldn't it be nice to have your own sound?
Like, you know, like a ring, like a ring from the past.
I agree, you know, I miss the days
when telephones used to ring differently than they do now.
Everything has the same sound when it rings.
That's not right.
Good evening, you're on off the hook.
Hello.
Speak up.
I reached you.
Yes, go ahead.
Yeah, yeah, there's a website called downsizedc.org.
It enables you to very easily write your two congressmen,
your two senators and one congressman with one step.
And they have various campaigns,
one of which is Hands Off the Internet,
which is designed to attack bills like this.
And so you just go to downsizedc.org,
scroll down to the bottom of the page
and there's something, there's a link called Campaigns
that takes you to their slash ETP area,
which is Educate the Powerful.
And then just look for the campaign you want.
And the Hands Off the Internet campaign
would be very good for opposing the SOPA,
the Stop Online Piracy.
Okay, what's that website one more time?
Because we're out of time.
Downsizedc, all one word, downsizedc.org.
Okay, thanks for that information.
We'll certainly keep an eye on that as well.
You can write to us, oth at 2600.com.
People have not been writing to us
nearly as much as they used to.
What's going on out there?
We're not gonna give you a Facebook address.
We're not gonna tell you to tweet us.
We're gonna ask for email,
just like, you know, the standard type of communication.
oth at 2600.com.
You could send us a snail mail if you prefer.
You could do that too.
WBAI, we're off the hook, WBAI 120 Wall Street,
New York, New York 10001, I believe.
Five.
Is it?
Yeah.
That's what I was thinking.
All right.
Hey, we're out of time,
and we're going out with one more.
This is gonna be it for a while,
because it's the end of the year.
And one more song about Occupy Wall Street
from the Dubstep Army.
We'll see you next week.
Have a good night.
♪ I'm just living for a little score ♪
♪ I'm just living for a little score, money money ♪
♪ Crying for crying for money money ♪
♪ Dying for dying for money money ♪
♪ And you wasn't kind, honey honey ♪
♪ I'm just fighting for fight for, money money ♪
♪ Killing for killing for, money money ♪
♪ Hating for hating for, money money ♪
For money, money
Hating for hate
For money, money
The new mankind
Money, money
Revolution
What is your name?
What do you do?
What are you dreaming of?
What is your aim?
I like your name
I like your aim
What are you looking for?
Can I help you?
Revolution
We need a
Revolution
Revolution
Oh
A revolution
Oh
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, it's 8 o'clock here at WBAI, New York, 99.5 FM.