And you're listening to radio station WBAI New York.
The time is 7 o'clock. Time once again for Off the Hook.
And a very good evening to everybody.
The program is Off the Hook.
Emmanuel Goldstein here with you.
Joined tonight by Mike.
Hi.
Rob T. Firefly.
Good evening.
Jim.
Hello.
And Bernie S.
Greetings from Philadelphia.
The one week I don't say Philadelphia
and that's where you happen to be.
Okay, great.
Welcome back to Philadelphia then.
Yeah, well we're back.
We were away last week.
We were all out gallivanting together
but now we're back in the studio,
back to business.
Yes, it's another fundraising show
but it's going to be a lot of fun
because we have a special guest
and all kinds of fun things to talk about
and I think people are going to find it
very hard to resist calling in
to support this place
when they hear the amazing things
that we're going to be talking about.
I mean, how could you resist in general?
You get to support the station.
People do.
People do resist.
I've met some resistors
and it's hard.
I don't know how to get into their heads
and figure it out
but yeah, people say,
yeah, you know, I'd like to call in
but I didn't.
Well, we'll take it up.
Yeah, I just don't get it.
I don't understand.
We'll take it up later
but one of the things we'll be offering
is a method for measuring resistance
so maybe that'll help.
Oh, a way to give it away.
Okay, fine.
Yeah.
So now you have a bit of a clue there.
Thanks, Mike.
But we also have some breaking news
of various sorts.
A few bits of breaking news.
Well, breaking over the last couple of weeks
because we weren't here last week
we had a show a few weeks ago
about the Tesla Museum on Long Island,
the proposed Tesla Museum
and well, that dream
is one big step closer to reality,
the dream of 16 years
and it's amazing too
because as we mentioned on the show
I just went out there with Kyle
like a couple of months ago
and we're just wandering around
saying wouldn't this be a good idea
and then we found out
that these guys have been trying to do this
for 16 years
and not only that
they succeeded in doing it
within the next couple of weeks
or a month at least.
That dream of 16 years
came true for science enthusiasts
one Friday ago, I believe.
Yeah, when they struck a deal
to buy a dilapidated estate
on Long Island
and transform it into a museum
and educational memorial
to Nikola Tesla
an eccentric genius
according to the New York Times
who lit the world with alternating current
but died penniless
in the New Yorker Hotel
within sight of the Hotel Pennsylvania.
No, it's true.
It's true.
It's inside?
No, within sight.
Oh, within sight.
Yes, you can see it from there.
What's that?
Well, I'm just saying
that's where it is
for people who have come to New York
to be at the Hope Conferences.
He died.
It's amazing too
because he keeps popping up
in various places.
Long Island
which is where I'm from
that's where he had
this experimental building
this estate
and then
dying penniless
in a hotel within sight
of Hotel Pennsylvania
and then over in
Serbia
where he's from
where I spent some time
so it's
interesting
and of course the Tesla bills
that we've been handing out to people
because in Serbia
his face adorns
money over there
so it's really pretty cool.
Anyway, the overgrown 16-acre site
which is in Shoreham
features his only surviving workshop
the crumbling brick laboratory
was designed by Tesla's friend
Stanford White
a celebrated architect
who drew up plans in Manhattan
for the Washington Arch
as well as
neoclassical gems
like the Century Club.
The Washington Square Arch?
They just say the Washington Arch.
If you read the New York Times
and you said the Washington Arch
what would you think you mean?
I wouldn't know.
Is there an arch in Washington?
I don't think there is.
It's a big city.
It could be full of arches
for all I know.
But I don't know of an arch
unless it's a person named Arch
in Washington.
No, I don't know of an arch.
You know what?
Our listeners know.
Send us an email.
The state of Washington
perhaps has an arch somewhere
but I don't think that's what
they're probably talking about
the Washington Square Arch
and somebody just left out
the word square.
The AGFA Corporation
which owns the heavily wooded site
and once operated a factory there
turned it into a Superfund site
in fact.
It's not a good thing
when you do that.
They agreed to sell the estate
to the Tesla enthusiasts
for an undisclosed sum
after they succeeded
in raising $1.4 million
through a web campaign.
And the property had been listed
at $1.6 million.
But that was an amazing campaign.
They basically just started
kind of like a Kickstarter thing.
It wasn't Kickstarter.
It was Indiegogo.
Yeah, Indiegogo.
And we did mention
on the radio program
when they were on
that they had some sort
of a matching grant
from the state.
So they may have had more
than $1.4 million to spend.
That's possible.
That's entirely possible.
And it drew the attention
of the artist of Oatmeal,
the cartoon.
Matthew Inman, The Oatmeal.
Yes.
And that led to so many people.
The power of the net.
When you get passion like that
all these people
were contributing money
and before they knew it
they were well above
what they were hoping to get.
So it's really amazing.
So that's actually going to happen.
Or at least it sure looks
like it's going to happen.
They've bought the property
and hopefully now
Friends of Science East
is renaming itself
the Tesla Science Center
at Wardenclyffe.
And that was Tesla's name
for the site during its heyday.
And we're going back to 1903.
That's when he erected
a wooden tower
that rose more than 18 stories
above the surrounding farms.
Really got some attention
from the farmers out there
at that point.
And one night
it fired bolts of electricity
into the sky.
And boy, that must have been
a fun occasion out there
on Long Island in 1903.
Go ahead, Bernie.
Just one of people's
grabbed their minds
around this 18-story tower
which he was going to transmit
electricity wirelessly
to places many miles away.
That's about the height
of the Hotel Pennsylvania.
That size of his tower.
Can you imagine
building something
with a wooden tower that high?
And if you look online
for Wardenclyffe Tower
or just look up Tesla Tower
you can see pictures of this.
It was really amazing architecture.
It just looks like something
appropriately out of science fiction
movie or something.
And Tesla's dream
of beaming electricity
wirelessly around the world
so anybody could have electricity
without running wires
through their house
was never fulfilled.
Not because the technology
wasn't sound, apparently.
It's because the big power moguls
back in the day
figured out there's no way
to measure it.
So we can't have this.
So let's not have
wireless power distribution
because we can't build people
that way.
I just look forward to us
having a company field trip
out to this thing
when it's built.
So I'm looking forward
to the next step.
You're not going to help build it?
Not right now.
I intend on going out there
and starting to rake leaves
and carry boulders,
whatever needs to be done
to get this thing going.
And I think we all need to do that.
And this is global.
This is not just something
that's local.
This is a global tribute
to Nikola Tesla
that's going to be built here.
And it's great that it's happening
within sight of where we are
and in our lifetime
that something like this happens.
And by the way,
if you're hoping to see
the 18-story wooden tower,
well, I'm sorry to disappoint,
but the owners in 1917
had the giant tower blown up
and sold for scrap.
And today the brick laboratory
is the main Tesla relic.
But it's still a relic,
and it's still something
worth preserving and worth seeing
and building something new at.
Oh, and the new owners,
they plan,
one of the things they hope to do
is next to the science museum there
for the Tesla,
they want to build
a smaller-scale reproduction
of that tower.
Obviously, they couldn't get the zoning
to build an 18-story tower there.
But if you recall,
listeners recall,
we had our guest on there.
She said they plan to do that.
Maybe they could still
shoot electricity up into the air.
We can always hope.
I'd like to see that.
I sure would, too.
Okay, other news,
and this is important as well.
You might recall the case
of Gary McKinnon.
Who the United States
has been trying to extradite
for hacking into military computers
over the years.
His extradition has been blocked.
I believe this happened yesterday.
He will not be extradited to the U.S.,
according to British Home Secretary
Theresa May.
The 46-year-old McKinnon
admitted accessing U.S. government computers,
but claims he was looking
for evidence of UFOs.
And he's been fighting extradition
since 2002.
The Home Secretary told MPs
there was no doubt
that Mr. McKinnon was seriously ill
and the extradition warrant against him
should be withdrawn.
Mrs. May said the sole issue
she had to consider
was his human rights.
And basically, it's now up to
British authorities
if they're going to charge him
with a crime in that particular country.
Now, this, we've had
Julia O'Dwyer on the show
a couple of times
talking about her son, Richard,
who is facing extradition as well
for a totally different matter,
for having a website
that linked to allegedly pirated movies,
not hosted on his own site,
but just linking to sites
that access this information.
And this is different.
Gary McKinnon is not being extradited
because they are actually worried
that he would kill himself
if he was thrown into a U.S. prison.
And the concern is not the same
for Richard O'Dwyer,
but, I don't know,
Bernie, do you think this is
possibly a precedent of some sort
that the British are actually
standing up to the U.S.
and saying,
no, we're not going to just
follow your orders
and extradite whoever you want?
I certainly hope so.
The 2003 Extradition Act,
which is like a treaty
between the U.S. and the U.K.,
kind of a one-sided treaty,
as we discussed on the show.
It basically means the U.K. gets to,
the U.S. gets to have
all these British citizens
extradited to the U.S.
to be prosecuted and imprisoned here,
but it doesn't work
the other way around really well.
So there has never been an exception
to the 2003 Extradition Act.
And this Gary McKinnon case
is the first time since 2003
that the U.K. government has said,
no, we're not going to extradite this person.
So it's a precedent in that respect,
and I'm hoping it bodes well
for Richard O'Dwyer,
who's also awaiting extradition to the U.S.
and doesn't want to come here
for good reasons,
because what he did in the U.K.
is not only not illegal,
it's just not illegal in the U.K.,
and he hasn't been to the U.S.
to do these things.
So it's a weird case.
So I'm hoping he doesn't get extradited
because of this, but we'll see.
I'm just hoping that it works
in a more speedy manner
for Richard O'Dwyer as well,
because McKinnon now
has been fighting this for, what,
10 years, 11 years,
something like that.
And it's just ridiculous
to think of somebody,
like anyone listening,
imagine trying to fight
for your own right
to not be extradited
to some foreign country
for 10 years,
10 years of your life.
That's pretty insane.
And I think it ended well,
and I think it ended
in a fashion
that might set a good precedent.
And also just imagine
the scariness of it
if you're a hacker out there
and you're playing around
on the Internet
and you hack into something,
say, in, pick a country.
The United States?
Another country,
not our country,
for God's sake.
Panama.
How about Iran?
Why do you have to pick Iran
every single time, Bernie?
Uzbekistan.
Because it's exactly
where the United States
government is.
Let's do Uzbekistan.
Haven't they been through enough, though?
Can we pick something else?
Panama.
Panama?
All right, Panama.
Panama.
Why not?
What did they ever do to Iran?
Isn't that a state, though?
Isn't the U.S. like annex Panama?
They gave it back.
Did they really?
Did they really?
They claim to have given it back.
You know,
if I had known
we were going to talk
about Panamanian history
on this program,
I would have said,
let's pick an interesting country.
Botswana.
Let's imagine
that somebody out there
hacks into a computer system
in Botswana,
and maybe they don't even know
they're doing it,
but they are able to get in,
or they're able to
simply scan
and find information,
and they get,
I don't know,
a telegram
or some kind of
angry phone call
or something
demanding that they be
extradited to Botswana,
and the United States
just says,
yep, go ahead.
Have a nice trip
and see you in
20 to 30 years or whatever.
We don't tend to do that.
In fact,
I don't think we do that at all,
and if we did,
our citizens
would be a bit concerned
despite the fact that,
yeah,
somebody hacked into
the Botswana
power authority
or whatever.
It's not how you deal
with alleged crimes.
You charge people
in their home countries.
You don't simply
ship them off
to whatever country
demands that you do so,
and I'm sure
there are lots of countries
that would like to have
our citizens
exported to them
so they could
question them
and torture them
and all kinds of things
like that.
I'm sure there's a whole line
of countries
that would like to do that,
but the United States
doesn't agree to it,
and other countries
shouldn't agree to it
when the United States
is the one requesting this,
and I think maybe
it's just because
the United States
is so big and powerful
that countries feel
compelled to do that.
Yeah, I mean,
I would postulate
that the most law-abiding
American in this country
does at least
half a dozen things a day
that would be illegal
somewhere else,
and so,
you know,
do you want to be subject
to some other country's laws
just because, well,
they've got a law
that's different.
They want to punish you for it.
I don't know.
Maybe that's what should happen.
Maybe other countries
should go and charge
everybody in the United States
with various crimes
constantly
and demand that we
extradite almost everybody
just so that we can see
how ridiculous
this whole thing is.
But anyway,
we are optimistic
that the Richard O'Dwyer case
will end happily,
but for that to happen,
we have to constantly
be vigilant
and pay attention
and update people,
and I don't believe
there's anything new
to report on that
particular case,
but we are certainly watching it.
Of course,
Gary McKinnon case
will still go on,
just not in this country,
and yeah,
it's insane that it took
10 years to get to this point,
but sometimes
you have to fight
for a long time
to get justice.
Okay, Julian Assange.
Yes, Julian Assange
in the news
still yet again.
I understand
that Mr. Assange
has met
with Lady Gaga.
Really?
Yeah, yes.
This is what
we're discussing?
Well,
it's just,
it's a news item.
It's something worthwhile now,
what they discussed.
Who else has
Lady Gaga met with
in the past two weeks?
We don't know that either.
There's a lot we don't know.
Maybe you should investigate.
Maybe we will.
Yeah,
so apparently
the two of them met,
and it's baffled authorities
as to what they could have
been discussing
and talking about,
but mostly...
At the Ecuadorian embassy.
We must remind our listeners.
Well, yeah,
she didn't take him out for pizza.
Obviously,
that would be a bad idea.
No,
she ordered in
or something.
Yeah,
so,
but another thing
that's kind of,
well,
not really related to this,
but also in the news,
those people
who put up the money
for Julian,
his bail,
they're being ordered
to pay $150,000.
In fact,
the deadline has already passed,
and they're the ones
being penalized
because Assange
basically jumped bail
and took refuge
in Ecuador's embassy.
Now,
the guarantors
include Nobel Prize
winning biologist
John Sulston.
They're liable
for the entire amount
that they pledged,
and they were...
Actually,
they're given until November 6th
to pay up.
I just think
that's really
kind of bizarre
to see that happen
where these people
put up money
in good faith,
and now they're being held liable
for even more money
and not getting the money
that they put up
back
What a bizarre,
unusual case.
I just take that as,
you know,
as our regular listeners know,
Julian Assange met with us
about two years ago.
Now Lady Gaga
is getting around to it.
I think she's just trying
to be cool like us.
Well,
it wouldn't be the first time
that people
follow in our footsteps.
Bernie,
I believe you had a suggestion
for Lady Gaga.
Did I?
Well,
make it clean.
No,
as far as
helping out with Julian.
Oh, yeah.
I thought,
you know,
she probably makes that
much money,
$150,000
every, like,
10 minutes
in her income stream.
I think it would be
a nice gesture
for her
to pay
Julian Assange's bail
so all these friends of his
aren't left on the hook.
I mean,
it would be a drop
in the bucket
for her,
I think,
as opposed to just
visiting her
and getting publicity
out of it
because she looks all
like cool and hip
for visiting him.
But, hey,
it would be nothing for her.
I think she should do that.
I mean,
it would be a loathe
to suggest how people
spend their money,
but in this particular case,
I think that it would be
good for her,
be good for him,
be good for everybody.
Maybe that's what
they discussed.
Who knows?
But certainly,
I would imagine the people
that put up the money
in the first place
aren't too happy
about the way
things have turned.
And, you know,
in order to keep
good relations
with people
who have you back
in situations like this,
yeah,
any option
should be explored
because they should not
be the ones
that are
going to be
the ones
that are going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
the ones
that are
going
to be
safe from authorities but I'm a little dubious as to whether or not it's that
simple whether it is going to be that secure basically putting things in the
cloud has often been seen as as kind of giving it up giving it to some other
entity and losing control of it yourself if there is a way to solve that and have
it so that that actually strengthens it and if it goes down in one place it
automatically goes up in another and that the entities don't know where the
next one is it's all encrypted and and and and protected that way then that's
great that's a that's a wonderful step but I'm not yet convinced so the model
they're using is kind of interesting they have their own load balancer which
is the the server that people on the internet actually talk to and they still
have that their own physical hardware somewhere and then that load balancer
all it does is forward the requests onto their servers and supposedly all that is
encrypted so there's no way to know where those are but the the authorities
could still see is the load balancer I guess if they want if they come up with
a good enough excuse I think there was there was they they point out what
happened if that if that would occur if they were to take a load balancer I mean
they can get another one of course yeah there's some kind of backup system it
seems very well thought out and I just I would like to see if it actually works
in practice and if it does that would be a tremendous achievement yeah I mean the
Pirate Bay has always been sort of at the forefront of taking the load off
themselves and putting it out there for for basically the community or the cloud
to support they they a while ago stopped using their own BitTorrent tracker and
we're just indexing torrents that were on other public trackers and and so like
that sort of thing it gets more into the nuts and bolts of how a torrent works
but basically they've been they've been slowly sort of offloading the risk and
the the effort that goes into running this thing on to onto the users
basically and spread out in a way that it doesn't inconvenience anyone and it
keeps the site up there for people who want it so if I if I know how
authorities react to certain things they're gonna say okay so al-qaeda is
gonna do this and how do we stop them and they're gonna try and apply that to
everybody across the board does anybody have any prediction as to what the
reaction is going to be they're going to the authorities are going to pretend to
be al-qaeda and I don't know I don't know what their next move is but that
seems to be their strategy they're going to pretend to be al-qaeda that's what
they do okay we can get into that some other show but it's in the news today
the authorities are pretending to be al-qaeda yeah they duped some idiot into
pretending to bomb the Fed well duping some idiot is not really that hard to do
that's well it's the FBI's number one strategy these days yeah okay well
regardless we're gonna focus more attention on that because as that is
definitely a big story and I think that's that's worthy of an entire show
but we have business to take care of tonight as we mentioned tonight is a
fundraising show and we're in the middle of the October fundraising drive and we
have a special guest with us tonight John Huntington joins us hello and John
is is one of our speakers at the hope conference but you do a lot of very
interesting things you you run something known as Gravesend and maybe well let's
start with you discussing what that is and then we can get into some of the
other amazing things that you're involved with sure the Gravesend Inn is
our haunted hotel that we do at New York City College of Technology there's a lot
of names here so but it's New York City College of Technology to the college
where I teach it's also called City Tech which is part of CUNY so just to get
maximum confusion and that's where downtown Brooklyn okay so the Gravesend
Inn started about ten years ago as just the excuse for us to take everything off
the shelf and turn it on and fire it up and have some fun with it and now it's
grown into we get two to three thousand people typically in a year come through
everybody from we let families make their own judgments but pretty young
kids come through to adults and each one can get kind of kind of something
different out of it and the the audience isn't generally aware but we give away a
little secret is that the audience actually operates the entire attraction
as they go through so if there's no one in in the haunted house nothing's
happening as they go through sensors and various technologies we use to sense
them as they go through and then trigger things for each area yeah we did this a
couple of years ago we he gave us a tour of the place and I understand that it's
gotten even more advanced since then you know kinds of a computer activated
effects and they were pretty pretty scary pretty interesting pretty advanced
and I mean you don't just get involved with the haunted house you you are
involved in in theater in general and in technology and how that all relates you
want to tell us how that's developed over the past few years sure so our
school it's an entertainment technology department so we anything that's we
focus particularly on live entertainment so this is really a
project for us the same that you would see in a theme park so it's just like
Disney or Universal one of those types of attractions and that basically the
only difference between what we're doing and what they're doing is that we're
building it out of wood and putting it in and out every year where they build
it out of you know concrete and conduit and install it permanently and that's
part of our program at the school is pretty unique in that we focus on that I
don't know it many other programs in the college in the country that run a
haunted house especially of this level of sophistication and we've been the
college is really supported on this because we're are the mission of our
school is to support the local industry in the local industry in New York is
live entertainment or one of the major industries so we were kind of counting
up the you know how much stuff we have now and how valuable it is and it's
pretty impressive even to us now over the years we just built on to it and
built on to it and built on to it and my I'll go ahead I just wanted to thank
you also for you have for past few years brought some of your most
exceptionally skilled students to the hope conference to help us with the AV
stuff at the conference which is a massive job in itself and they've been a
lot of help and I'm sure they've learned a lot that way too yeah they really love
it actually they they have a great time because and our programs unique in that
we like I went to traditional theater school and and you know in small towns
where a lot of those schools are they have to make a lot of production
opportunities but because we're in New York we just say hey go go find
something interesting to work on and that's been a great thing for them and
then they also get exposed the whole world of you know hackers and everything
else that goes on in the conference and the students have all done it have all
really really enjoyed it yeah it definitely is something cool to witness
see everybody learning and teaching and now you've just published a book which
you want to tell us what this is all about sure it's a good time tying with
the Gravesend Inn as the Gravesend Inn is sort of a good example of the type
of technology that we use in live shows and themed attractions and what we do
it and the talk I gave at the hope conference a couple years ago it was
called hacking for an audience and that's kind of what we do is we adapt
all this stuff from different industries and then use it in kind of
unusual ways where kind of pretty high-stakes stuff sometimes not in terms
of you know our cliches we're not doing you know cancer research or something
like that but our you know our product is our show and so if you don't have a
show to put on you don't have you know we're out of business basically so so we
use networking equipment industrial control electronics you know Arduino
anything you can imagine we put it all together and then integrate it using
what we call show control technologies and the book covers both what we call
entertainment control so that's all the basics for all the areas lighting and
sound and video and so on and then networking which is now our Ethernet is
now our backbone technology on on everything we do and I was just
listening before like we don't get into like load balancing kind of stuff but we
use the Ethernet someplace where you might be you know dragging it through
the mud after a circus and then you know using it to control things that are
dangerous or if it goes wrong you know you have to give you know five thousand
people their money back so we compartmentalize stuff and build it in
ways that we can fix it in very quickly and that's sort of the focus of the book
is that it explains those technologies and it's written both for people in our
industry they need to learn more about the networking and stuff like that but I
wrote it to try to also speak to people just hackers or other people interested
like hey that looks cool and so the first part of the book explains just a
little bit in each of the areas like we have chapters on lighting lasers sound
video and then I go into all the networking stuff which is it's kind of
new in our industry not really new but a lot of people in our industry don't get
that coverage and then it goes on to the practical examples and then show control
I was just looking through this before the show and I'm very impressed it's
several hundred pages long it's very well laid out as far as artwork and
diagrams and things like that it's it's technical but it's also introductory
as far as explaining things and as you mentioned there are a bunch of different
chapters on a bunch of different topics in fact Rob you look kind of entranced
by it right now what are you looking at yeah I'm looking at the chapter on
lighting and it's funny because I used to I used to work in a couple of a
couple of fields that involve systems a lot like this and you know I used to
work in theater theatrical lighting and I used to work in with animatronics and
some other stuff like that and so I'm seeing things that that I was working
with ages ago that I had to jump in and learn the hard way but the way this is
written it's it is very like you said it's very it's introductory for those
who need that but there's also you can go deeper and find the more the harder
in-depth sort of explanations of what's going on and how these things work and
why they do what they do and how they can how they can be used well and you
know there are great illustrations great photos somewhere in here is is an
animatronic gorilla that was cut in half that I kind of went for my new desktop
but uh there there there is it's it's a great look behind the scenes for people
that are just passively interested in this sort of thing I want to know how it
all works and maybe like special-effects nerds and people like that but also it's
a great intro for people who want to start getting their hands dirty and work
with stuff like this I just want to say there's probably very few people in our
audience and I don't think any of us here on the show who haven't been to
some live entertainment show that saw something really amazing and wondered how
the heck did they do that and you just didn't know how to find out how they did
that this book tells you how they did that and you can really I mean you can
flip through this book I've been flipping through it and I've seen a
bunch of stuff in there that I realized oh I saw this show at Best Place and
that show there that's how they did that so this really this really fills you in
on it doesn't destroy the magic yeah are you gonna get in trouble for telling
people how it was done it's like a magician thing where you're gonna get
blacklisted now or fortunately in our industry we fortunately in our industry
there's a lot of open sharing of this stuff but if it's really secret then it
just you don't write it down or it's written for a specific understood okay
but I just say one thing quickly the the last part of the book is actually it's
written more to tie everything together but it's sort of hypothetical example
systems they're actually most of them are based on real you know shows that I
worked on over the years but that really like Bernie was saying that
really kind of the objective is that kind of tied together for people so if
you always wondered how did they do the you know projections and this and that
on a big concert like how is it tied together I have an example in there to
talk about that and then a theme park one and a corporate show and all
different types of stuff in your examples it's very hard it's it's it's
curious how you came up with these names for the fake shows because they're very
heavily veiled from the real stuff that I know you worked on there you you
worked on I guess a purple Floyd and a xylitol marketing opportunity and and
things like that and so that the readers can maybe try and guess like what what
could that possibly be in real life and then see if they've been to something
like that and and the sheer range of stuff that's covered in here is is
amazing even for people familiar with this they're they're gonna learn
something I mean there's a chapter on you know stage lighting there's a
chapter on lasers audio pyrotechnics fog and things like that animatronics and
you know complemented with chapters on networking and networking basics and
TCP and IP and then you know MIDI controls and sympathy and MIDI timecode
stuff it's there there's just so much to this and you know so many fields and so
many disciplines come together to make a show like this and it's just it's just
amazing to to see exactly exactly what's going on behind all those scenes I'm
sorry you know people are calling wanting to know okay what do I have to
do to get this we didn't mention this yes we are offering this tonight I'm
sorry we just got so entranced with the whole conversation this this amazing
book it's entitled control systems show show networks and control systems by
John Huntington it's an incredible book with all kinds of details and information
that you won't find anyplace else really we're offering that in addition we're
offering another book about hacker spaces called hack this 24 incredible
hackerspace projects and we're offering all the DVDs where John has talked at
the help conference about this and other related topics which we'll get to in a
moment all that for a pledge of only $75 to 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 are you sure
that's not a mistake you get all that for $75 is there a zero missing it's
700 not 75 oh no no $75 not bad but it's only for this hour it's only until
8 o'clock when you say it's for this hour you mean it's for this 27 minute
we spend so much time talking about it yeah the time is it's fleeting so 2 1 2
2 0 9 2 9 5 0 if you have a touchtone phone now you can dial faster and get
through quicker so that the time doesn't go you only have until until 8 o'clock
to do this $75 you'll get that book you'll get the other hackerspace book
and you'll get the related DVDs it's really pretty amazing I guarantee you
this is not something that you'll find anywhere else and here's something else
we threw this in to thanks for our friends at how do you pronounce their
name Bernie okay I was gonna say Jameco it's Jameco show you how clued in I am
Jameco right Jameco see I can't get it right even now
Jameco they have been kind enough to donate some multimeters and me being the
klutz that I am I have no idea what you can do with a multimeter who wants to
describe what these magical devices can do I know I just say that is yours in
addition to all this for a pledge of 125 so if you want if you want the
multimeter pledge $125 you'll get the two books you'll get the DVDs and you'll
get the the multimeter as well for 125 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 who can who can
describe what this magical device does Emmanuel Bernie go ahead well I mean
this is a good package because it all fits together because anybody who reads
this book is and want to do anything that's it's it's talked about in the
book is going to need one of these tools a digital multimeter it's just sort of
like a Swiss Army knife of electronics measuring it measures a DC current all
the way up to 10 amps measures DC voltage up to a thousand volts does AC
voltage measurement up to 100 up to 750 volts resistance we're talking about
that resistance measurement up to 2 million ohms it trans transistors both
PNP and NPN transistors it does test diodes continuity it even has a signal
generator in it a square wave and sine wave signal generator and even test its
own batteries you're scaring me here Bernie what exactly what's the end goal
here it goes it's two test probes coming out of this thing to two little things
like like like knitting needles on cords and you stick them into the circuit and
it tells you what's going on in that circuit the voltage amperage current
resistance it makes sounds when you connect it to things so you can tell you
can hear whether you have a good circuit or not it's an extremely useful tool to
anybody who's really even your average person is you have to be a designing
shows for purple Floyd or pink Floyd anybody who has any any interest in
electronics at all is going to want to have a digital multimeter it's a if you
can't understand you can't measure something you really can't work with it
so I encourage listeners to call 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 and pledge either $75 for
the book and the DVDs or 125 for the book the DVDs and this digital
multimeter donated by GM Co electronic and I was playing one of the digital
multimeters right now and you're not gonna blow up something with that it
looks very complex and wires and gauges and things like that and just yeah keep
your distance it's kind of hard to show someone that's over the radio so I'll
just show you the sounds of it okay well that sounds that sounds serious
there that sounds a little bit of that oh wow okay so it beeps and it clicks
and it does a lot more than that a pledge of 125 you'll get the digital
multimeter you'll get the the two books the book by John Huntington show
networks and control systems and you'll get the hackerspace book 24 incredible
hackerspace projects and you'll get the DVDs concerning that John Huntington has
given over the past a couple of years at the hope conferences it's really an
incredible package so for $75 you get the books and the DVDs for 125 you get
all that plus the digital multimeter 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 we have two calls on the
line let's make that four calls and and and we will be doing a lot of a lot of
good work today getting support for the radio station yes and so for that pledge
of $75 calling 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 you will get you will get the book hack this
by John Batel who we've had on the show before great book of hackerspace
projects and a little bit of info on various hackerspaces around the country
and you will get DVDs of John Huntington speaking at hope and you will get John
Huntington's book show networks and control systems which sounds like this
when you drop it that is that is a 472 page book you got that from me I'm the
one that started dropping books on here yes but I've got the book here and you
haven't so I've got this book I stole a bit you're slipping a manual rob I don't
have a table over here and so all of that for for a pledge of $75 but most
importantly you get this radio station you get this radio show you get
membership in WBA I you get a voice in where the station goes from here and
also we get this we get this question every week every week we invariably get
someone who emails us after the fact saying I just listened to you on a
podcast I just listened to your mp3 can I get your can I get this this thing
that you were giving away for pledging no you can't you can only get it live
this for the rest of this hour that's 22 more minutes by calling 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9
5 0 and we don't do that to be bastards we do that because if we did open it up
beyond our show hours maybe a thousand people would call in because a lot of
people do call in wanting this and then we'd have to cough that up and we'd be
on the streets you know pretty quickly after basically spending everything we
have to get all these donations because it does cost to do this so we have to we
have to we have to limit it but you can still donate you can still donate
without getting those particular premiums there are BAI generic premiums
you can get at any time but yes up until 8 o'clock is when we are offering this
yes Bernie go ahead I mean we have a lot of generous people that help us do these
fundraisers like John Huntington was generous enough to donate as many
copies of books as we need for this fundraising show and it's not a cheap
book this is this is not an inexpensive book it's a pretty serious book but it's
a it's a good casual read you don't have to be a technologist to appreciate this
book you can really read this book and and have a great having a basic
understanding of how all the stuff you see happening in live entertainment
shows really works and so John generated that book Jameco Electronics were kind
enough to donate these digital multimeters Q Publishing donated to
hack this book 24 incredible hackerspace projects from the do-it-yourself movement
by John Bytel I mean we have a lot of generous people and companies to
donate these items so that we can encourage people to pledge support for
WBAI which is worthy of support itself so call 212 209 2950 get some great
thank-you gifts for supporting a great radio station keeping off the hook and
a lot of other good shows on the air and we also have four calls on the line
which is great thanks very much people calling in again 212 209 2950 is the
phone number and we are making this offer available up until 8 o'clock and
we also I should add in that there's there's another alternative if if for
some reason which I would find hard to believe none of this interests you we
have a different premium for $75 and that basically is the it goes back to
hope number nine which took place in July of this year and it's basically a
20 DVD set of what we consider to be the most popular talks that took place
during hope number nine this July we basically confer we confer various times
during the week to decide we bicker and debate about which ones will be included
in that 20 DVD set but for a pledge of $75 you'll get 20 well not 20 DVDs 20
talks a talk might be more than one DVD so you could get 21 or 22 depending on
what we finally figure out I can I can say that all the keynotes the keynote
speakers will be on there so you'll certainly get the yes men and you'll
certainly get William Binney but you'll get 18 more talks as well for a pledge
of $75 and that's a good deal even if you don't like the conference 20 DVDs is
a good deal but I think everybody listens to this show is interested in
the things that went on at hope it was really I think the most interesting
conference of the year and I'm I know I'm biased but really if you look at the
variety of speakers and the skill set there it simply was incredible and to
get 20 DVDs for a pledge of $75 is simply an amazing deal again the phone
number for that two one two two zero nine two nine five zero once again we
can only offer that up until eight o'clock so we hope to see a strong
reaction to that but getting back to to John's book here which really is an
incredible piece John you self-published this correct yeah I did excuse me I did
three editions with a publisher and they just weren't interested in continuing so
why were they not interested in continuing it's interesting the I don't
want to go through all the sales figures on the air but it wasn't up to their
standards oh I don't think they really marketed well enough anyway but I was
depressed for about a day and then I'm like well I can do this myself I had
done all the production work previously right and I went through and I used the
create space which is the company that does this stuff and then uploaded it did
I mean obviously I had to write it which is a lot of work and that's hard to keep
motivated but it was great in a lot of ways for example I went to a trade show
this summer and I talked to people there who had seen the previous editions of
book and they were like well that title doesn't really apply to me and I think
it really did so literally on the plane I'm like okay I just change it on the
laptop on the way home I emailed it to a few friends to make sure I wasn't crazy
and then I just did it and then I hired a person to help me with the cover check
out the artwork and help me with some of the graphics and stuff and then just did
it and it's it's been a great process in fact I'm gonna propose for the next hope
conference so I released I got this online right before hope this year so in
another year and a half or whatever I'm gonna propose a talk to talk about that
really speaks to the power of the individual to self-publish and to
bypass the dinosaurs that run the publishing industry the music industry
the film industry we can do it all ourselves and we can get the support
network directly from the consumers of people out there and I think what we're
doing here tonight indicates that as well because this book should not exist
according to the publishing industry but you did it anyway and I think that's you
know that's what the hacker spirit is all about is bypassing all these
artificial restrictions that are based on antiquated knowledge and and business
practices and things like that so your phone call is actually a voice of
support for this kind of thing as well as supporting WBAI and again you'll get
the the shell networks and control systems book by John Huntington you'll
get the DVDs of his talks and you'll get the hackerspace book for a pledge of
only $75 to one two two zero nine two nine five zero for 125 you'll get all of
that plus the really way cool multimeter from Jameco and for a pledge of $75 you
can also get the 20 DVD hope number nine set greatest hits of hope number nine
but you got a call now two one two two zero nine two nine five zero we're down
to one call on the line and I know there's a bunch of people down there so
please make that phone call now make us happy make WBAI prosperous so that we
can continue for another 52 years we've been on the air 52 years at 99.5 you
know I think we beat pretty much every station on the dial in New York City I
really think we do and that says something about the the value of
listener support every single commercial station on the dial in New York City has
switched formats or switch call letters or even switched frequencies because
it's so transient it doesn't it doesn't have staying power but listener support
of the kind of WBAI has that's something that has stuck around and will stick
around and has so much power yeah and the the the circumstances that came
together to make this station happen we're a complete fluke in so many ways
it would never happen again if we lost it there is no way we could get back
what we have here and and the fact that we've managed to keep this going for 52
years based only on this right now based only on asking for help from our
community from our listeners you are you are the only thing that's been
keeping us on the air these 52 years and the the fact that we can make that
happen that we can you know that we can that we can succeed in that is just
really really bizarre and insane and wonderful and you know it's worth it's
worth it's worth continuing and it's worth going further in this and see and
continuing to have this to have this unique unique place for voices like
ours I see one call coming in I want ten calls to come in I do I mean that might
sound a bit much but it's not it really is not I know there are lots and lots of
people listening I know there are lots of people that agree with this and I
know there are lots of people who will get something out of what we're offering
tonight but your call is the way to voice that support it's it's your vote
it's your investment in this place to keep it going and to make sure that we
are here because yeah it's expensive to be in New York City it's expensive to be
on the Empire State Building which is where our transmitter is that's why I
can get to four different states it's expensive even to be on the internet to
reach the entire world wherever it is that you're listening to us from it's
vital that you show that support you you you voice that particular vote of yours
and you invest in the future 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 whether you're pledging $75 or
125 whatever premium level that you desire every little bit counts and it
adds up 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 go ahead Bernie you mentioned a little earlier
that if it were up to the publishing industry John John Huntington's book
would not exist so as a labor of love he's making it exist through
doing-yourself self-publishing and I think that's a good analogy for what
goes on at WBAI WBAI should not exist if the radio industry does not want WBAI
to exist because we compete with commercial stations for you know for
commercial you know corporations want to sell you you know chewing gum and
shampoo and insurance and cars over the air and this radio station doesn't try
to pitch any of that stuff or throw it down your throat we don't have any
commercials and that's why this radio station the only reason this radio
station exists is people like who are listening right now can call 2 1 2 2 0 9
2 9 5 0 the radio industry doesn't like listening reported stations this is
do-it-yourself radio and it's been going on for more than half a century and we
have to keep it going because once it's gone it's gone 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 and
we're going to give you some great thank you's it gets for supporting this great
station and now more than ever we're in we're in a time where people can do
things like this where people can support the things they love to do purely
based on based on help from their audiences we've got Kickstarters and
Indiegogos and things like the Tesla Museum and you know all these things
where people are skipping over the old business models they're skipping over
you know the publishing industry that doesn't think this book should exist and
now John has this book successfully on his own and you know we've we've been
doing that for now for 52 years now it's now it's fine it's finally in we have
been doing for 52 years but we collectively as WBAI speaking for the
station have been doing this for 52 years but now people are finally getting
a hold of this sort of thing and in all these aspects of the media environment
and stuff around us where you can just support things directly you don't need
some big corporation that's going to you know take a big chunk of the cheese
between you and what you want to support and that's what we do here and that's
why it's important so if you call 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 and add yours add your
support to that that keeps us on the air and that keeps this place alive you'll
become you'll be becoming part of that three calls on the line right now and as
I said I want 10 I think that's not something that's that's that's
unreasonable to ask for I know that other stations get that amount very
quickly and they all they do is play classical music and that's fine you know
no problem there but I want to tell you something about the magic that goes on
in this place we're sitting in a room right now it's master control and we
have there's there's five of us right now there could be a lot more sometimes
there are a lot more but we're one show we're one show one hour out of 24 one
day out of seven and in a week and every single hour something else happens
in this room and I don't think there's a room like this anywhere in New York
City anywhere in the country I don't think there's a room like this where you
can have people that are representatives of foreign governments you can have
musicians you can have artists of all sorts and and hackers and just about
anybody with something interesting to say can be in this room or be on the
telephone and over the air and reach people in that particular manner now yeah
we have the internet but there is no magic like radio where you could just
tune by accident while while cruising in your car where all kinds of people can
just find something unexpected that is the magic of radio and that is why this
place has to be preserved yeah you can you can tune to all the other frequencies
on the FM dial and hear the the predictable canned music that repeats
every hour you can hear all the commercials you can hear the word-for-word
news if they even choose to read news or you can listen to WBAI where it changes
hour by hour and you get alternatives and you get disagreement and you get
dialogue that is what is worth supporting now we're offering some
amazing things tonight but the real reason to call is to support WBAI again
we're offering the book that John has been kind enough to donate to the cause
show networks and control systems it's really incredible teaching experience to
learn how how theater works how technology ties into it and the whole
hacking mentality behind that you get that you get the hackerspace book with
with 24 hackerspace projects included you get the the DVDs of John's talks all
that for a pledge of $75 for a pledge of 125 you get all that plus a digital
multimeter and again there's also the best of hope option for $75 20 DVDs John
just one thing I think excuse me the even if you're just interested in
networks a lot of what we do in our in live entertainment now is based on
networks and a big chunk of the book just explains TCP IP networks which is
all routing a little bit of routing and what's interesting I think a lot of
people in traditional sort of hackerspace background use a lot of
Arduino and stuff like that we talk in here about power for Ethernet and some
other things and so things we do like at the Gravesend Inn are like a big
physical computer that's spread across a building so a big chunk of the book is
actually explaining that so even if you're just interested in Ethernet how
you might use Ethernet to control something that's a big part of the book
and I think that might be very interesting to people to hackers in
general again the phone number is 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 we're only on for about
another 5-7 minutes so please have those calls come in now so that we can walk
out of here with our heads held high knowing that we we did something good we
contributed something to the radio station and that we're we're remaining
strong our listeners are still out there it's really vital that you speak up and
step up 2 1 2 2 0 9 2 9 5 0 and again if you miss being able to do this live you
can go to WBAI.org and support the station that way we can't give you our
premiums but there's some other stuff you can get hold of and you can choose
off the hook as the particular show you're supporting and we'll get
credited with your support I see five calls that's good that's good it's half
what I want and again you know people do make pledges only takes a minute to
make a pledge so we might be up to that ten already we're getting to that ten I
see another one coming in so that's six okay another four and I guess I'll make
my ten and I'll be happy and making me happy is part of the whole thing you
have to pledge when you call of course you can't just hang up the phone no
don't do that I'm giving people ideas for Mike no people have ideas with or
without my help all right there's number seven so but the best idea that they
have is to help keep this radio station on the air because as we've said some
many times tonight and and over the years if we go off the air that's it we
can't resurrect ourselves there is no one there's no such thing as like a nice
guy who owns a radio station in New York City anymore and even Mike can is even
capable of considering doing a great the Pacifica Foundation it just doesn't
exist they're all owned by these giant corporations who are legally obligated
to use these assets in a way that maximizes the return for their investors
two more calls people two one two two zero nine two nine five zero two more
calls I'll be very happy one more call okay thank you is legally obligated to
provide the most interesting the most controversial content to you our
audience if you want that to continue who if you want us to show you what's
behind the scenes of entertainment what's behind the scenes of the the
computers that run our lives of of the political systems in a way that no one
else is going to explain to you two one two two zero nine two nine five zero
there is number ten so I am happy but now the question is do you want to make
me very happy we can keep going beyond ten two one two two zero nine two nine
five zero again what we're offering are the books the show networks and control
systems really a one-of-a-kind book you won't find this walking into a retail
outlet this is something that is very specialized very interesting of great
interest to anyone curious about the hacker world and and and theater and
performances and innovation that kind of a thing you'll also get the the hack
this 24 incredible hackerspace projects from the do-it-yourself movement by John
Bechtel who was on the show previously you'll get John Huntington's DVD talks
in addition all that for a pledge of $75 two one two two zero nine two nine five
zero all of that plus a digital multimeter who's got the digital
multimeter what are you it's right here what is that you've built oh boy all
kinds of explain later things can be designed with this wow that's kind of
scary yeah and it comes with full instructions our friends at Jameco have
donated that to us that's for a pledge of 125 you get all the books DVDs and
this incredible device for 125 two one two two zero nine two nine five zero and
the one other choice that we have for a pledge of $75 is a best of hope number
nine 20 DVD set a 20 DVD talk set might be a little bit more than 20 DVDs and
that's basically off-the-hook people pick the the the greatest hits of hope
number nine and a plus $75 you'll get all that two one two two zero nine two
nine five zero yes Bernie if you were to add at the cost of all these premium
gifts it would it would cost you more than we're asking you to pledge to WBA
I so if it's a fantastic value you're supporting the radio station and you're
getting some great gifts and I also want to mention John Huntington has a
great blog called controlled geek net control geek net explain some of this
stuff to the call right now two one two two zero nine two nine five zero before
we go up the air and let me also point out that yes what you say is true and
and many public radio stations don't do that they offer you a coffee mug for
$250 and obviously it doesn't cost that much we go the opposite way on this
particular show so two one two two zero nine two nine five zero we're pretty
much out of time but John I want to give you one opportunity to talk about your
production how people can can go and see it oh great yeah thanks graves and in
org we're in downtown Brooklyn we open tomorrow which is why my voice a little
raspy and we run through Halloween but we have a check the website for the
schedule graves and in org all right spell that how do you spell graves and
gr a b e s e n d in all one word dot org and two ends on in yes yeah I think
people know how to spell okay with only one it's a word as well that's fine two
and two zero nine two nine five zero John thanks so much for stopping in and
for all you do and congratulations on the book we will see you next week and
our email address OTH at 2600 calm good night if you're 54 or 55 you might want
to listen you're an American or American people they're genius Americans
you're an American from there Americans love America
for the American people job kill job hasn't destroyed jobs never quite get
the job jobs
and I agree that we agree we use the same advisors
care we embrace a new economic patriot and the answer is yeah corporate jets
and you're an airplane and expensive to consult I've been a business a big bird
love America a big bird care of a big bird love America
America
thank you very much for this opportunity
and thank you very much all right