Are we worth more than your cable TV? Or $10 a month? $20? $100? $1,000,000?
Just go to the WBAI.org website and sign up with your credit card. You'll barely notice it.
In return, you get a WBAI tote bag to show off, free or discounted entry to special WBAI events and other perks.
Another cool thing about being a BAI buddy is less fundraising interruptions to your favorite programs.
Go to WBAI.org. You can donate in the name of your favorite show, like Ecologic.
Or Off the Hook, where it's currently about to begin, 7 o'clock, WBAI New York.
Time once again for Off the Hook.
Off the Hook.
Off the Hook.
And you're listening to Off the Hook here on WBAI in New York.
Manu Lilstein here with you, joined tonight by Alex.
How you doing?
Rob T. Firefly.
Good evening.
Bernie S. somewhere.
Greetings from Pennsylvania.
Pennsylvania. Okay, great. And Mike's on a field trip somewhere. Mike, are you back?
Okay. Well, Mike's here. I'll take my word for it.
We have a special program tonight. Special program because it's the first night, and Hank Key joins us, too.
You're not in for another hour.
There's a lot of confusion here, and I'm confused as to why people are so confused.
He's looking on our floor.
For what? The floor is where it's supposed to be.
Yeah, well, I'll tell you what. I'll tell you.
I've never seen such perplexed-looking people. What's all this about, Mike?
One minute you were here, and then you were gone.
I went to look for a phone number.
I told you the phone number. It's right here.
The pledge line phone number, which we're going to give out, is right in front of me.
All right. Well, why don't you tell me what it is, and I'll write it down.
It's 516-620-3602. That's our pledge line, which will become a lot more relevant in a couple of minutes
when we actually have something interesting to offer to people.
Bernie, you're down there in Philadelphia, you said?
I'm not in Philadelphia, but I am somewhere in the outskirts of Pennsylvania.
Okay. So you're aware that we do this every now and then.
We have fundraising programs.
I know we seem to do it an awful lot, but I want to share some insight on the alternative to alternatives.
Basically what that means is that we ask for support at this radio station
because we have no choice because that's the only way we can stay on the air.
We don't have commercials. We don't take underwriting even.
A lot of non-commercial stations that you might listen to, particularly NPR,
and that shouldn't come as any surprise, they take underwriting.
What that means is they basically say this program is brought to you by ExxonMobil or whatever,
and while they don't have full-fledged commercials, they have something that's pretty close.
Emmanuel, what is the difference?
There used to be a difference.
There used to be a difference.
There used to be a difference.
The difference is you're not supposed to say qualitative things.
You're not supposed to say we're better than the competition or anything like that.
I can't tell the difference anymore, and if you watch Channel 13, I don't think there is any difference.
So you're just supposed to say like ExxonMobil purveyors of gas spills,
not ExxonMobil purveyor of the biggest gas spills.
Something like that, yeah.
Okay. And I bet if you actually work for PBS, you can't say either of those.
I think Sidney's coming in now to have a look at the floor.
What's wrong with the floor? Why is everyone looking at the floor?
It's a very mysterious studio that we're in.
We're in the basement, so I don't think there's anything below us,
unless somebody discovered something below us.
In any event, yeah, so what happens in the commercial radio world, though,
you basically are force-fed a steady diet of commercials, full-fledged commercials,
not the half commercials or three-quarter commercials that you might see on NPR or PBS,
but just constant, constant being shouted at and pitched at.
You don't have a choice in this. You have no choice whatsoever.
Now, there are other items, other ways.
Thank you.
There are other ways of – all this confusion going on around me.
Other methods of listening to quote-unquote radio,
and one that I became somewhat familiar with in the last couple of months
because I had it installed in the car, is something known as Sirius XM.
Bernie, I believe you've heard of Sirius XM. Have you not?
Yes, I've heard about it seriously. It was two separate companies, but now they're –
It was Sirius and the other company was XM.
It was kind of a misnomer because people thought that, well, there's AM, FM, now there's XM.
But it's not another broadcasting band. It's a company, so it's very different.
Now two companies are one company.
But I started listening to this, started listening to this particular hodgepodge of various channels.
They basically have – it starts with channel, I guess, one and goes up to a couple of hundred.
It sounds kind of cool. You can listen to music, but it's like a music box,
like having a bunch of iPods with you.
But there are occasional good channels. They really are.
One of them was known as World Radio Network.
Now, Bernie, you would love World Radio Network.
They are an organization that basically plays the equivalent of shortwave.
And every half hour, they change to another country and they broadcast a half-hour program in English.
And it's crystal clear quality and you can hear it wherever you happen to be in the United States or Canada.
It might be Radio Prague at one moment.
Then it might be Radio France International.
It could be Radio Japan or Korea, all sorts of different countries all around the world.
It was probably the best channel that they had on this particular service.
Now, you might know because I'm saying it in the past tense, they no longer have it.
Right after I renewed because I had a free trial, I said,
okay, you know what, that channel made me really want to get the service.
I renewed for an entire year, an entire year.
And then they just took the channel off with no explanation whatsoever.
They said, yeah, this channel is no longer available.
You might enjoy listening to BBC and hearing these programs if you like world news.
You know, basically going from a couple of dozen sources to one source
and saying that people who like world news are here, BBC, listen to that.
So, you know, I jumped on their Facebook page and asked them, hey, what gives?
I got the exact same reply, word for word, from somebody with supposedly a name, but it was probably just a bot.
This is how it works no matter where you go, folks.
It works in commercial radio.
It works in commercial radio services.
And you don't have a say.
You don't have a voice.
They control things.
They take things away.
They make you think they're good, and then they just change to a load of crap.
Here at BAI, we have a back and forth with the listeners.
It's not always pretty.
And as you saw after Sandy, things got pretty messy.
But we keep bobbing our heads above the water, and we survive, and we hold our values.
We don't have commercials.
We don't have underwriting.
All we have are our listeners.
If I'm not mistaken, Emmanuel, you pay for this commercial satellite radio service,
and some of their channels still have commercials, right?
Oh, yes, very much.
So you pay twice for that, and you pay more than I think we're asking you to give tonight.
Oh, absolutely, yes, most definitely.
And people pay ridiculous amounts for audio content.
It's really something.
And it's not audio content that offers anything particularly special.
It's not anything you couldn't play yourself.
What we have here at WBAI, it is very unique.
Every hour, you have a different program virtually around the clock,
and you hear all kinds of differing perspectives, things you disagree with, things you do agree with,
and also you have a phone number to call to speak on the air many, many times.
Tonight, though, you have a phone number to call to help us out and keep this radio station going.
Now, what we have, we've put together a very interesting package of history for you
because it's all about history.
Everywhere you go, it's always about history,
and this particular radio show on this particular radio station has quite a sordid history to it.
We started back in 1988, and what has happened in the weeks that have passed by since then is that the world has changed.
Technology has changed, telephones, computers, all sorts of devices exist that didn't exist before.
Our society has changed.
The world has changed.
We live in a post-9-11 world now, whatever that is.
We've talked about all kinds of developments that have happened, and it's basically a time capsule.
What we are offering to you tonight is the full spectrum, everything from the beginning to the end of 2012,
and what that means is every single radio show that we have ever done on this radio station,
which comes out to, I think, well over 1,000 hours of audio on 23 DVDs,
that is what we are offering tonight.
It's a most incredible deal for $125.
That is what you will get, and you literally cannot get that anywhere else at such a ridiculously low amount,
but the most important thing is that you're helping the radio station.
You're keeping us on the air so that we can continue to bring you this perspective in the future,
see how things change as time goes on, but don't listen to me.
Don't listen to me.
Listen to the words of history, things that we have done over the past, what is it, 25 years now?
It's simply incredible that all this time has gone by,
and you'll hear for yourself that history happens when you least expect it,
and it just is something that continuously is going on right in front of you.
We're lucky enough to have documented it and to have preserved it in full FM quality, and it can be yours.
All of it can be yours, 23 DVDs full of audio over 1,000 hours for a pledge of $125 to 516-260-3602.
Make sure you ask for the Off the Hook DVD archive.
That is the official name.
When in 1988 was the first show?
The first show in 1988 was in October.
So we got a few months to plan the 25th anniversary party.
I think it was supposed to be in either July or August.
The story is told there as well, but there was a problem getting the show on the air the first time.
But, yeah, there was an anniversary coming up, a pretty significant one.
So 516-260.
I'm sorry, different phone numbers written here.
516-620-3602, 516-620-3602.
Now we have a different setup this time.
We don't have the tally room to run down the hallway and visit with people.
We have a call center somewhere around here.
We don't know exactly where it is, but they're very competent.
They will take your pledge very quickly, and it will all go to the radio station and keep us going.
But most importantly, you will become part of the WEI family,
and that means that you have a say in the things that we do, more of a say even than just a listener.
516-620-3602.
Let's venture back into time a little bit, and here's some of the history that we're talking about
as we listen to, I guess, just a random part of the history of Off the Hook.
Again, that phone number, 516-620-3602, pledge of $125 for the Off the Hook DVD archive,
and you'll have all the history right there in the electronic device of your choice.
Very good evening to everybody.
This is Off the Hook, and we're broadcasting live over the radio and over the Internet.
Hello to all you people all around the world.
You know, I only hope the day is right around the corner where you can listen to WBAI around the clock
on the Internet because it's happening all over the place.
Radio stations on the net now around the clock, and if we can work it out here, we're certainly going to do that.
And that way, when you go off to all different parts of the world, you can bring BAI with you.
That's right, all the time.
Well, this is an interesting edition of Off the Hook because we'll be getting phone calls,
hopefully, from all different parts of the country as well, and New York City.
Should I take the first one or pick a number?
I'm afraid. You know what's going to happen.
The fourth one.
That's what we did last time.
Is it?
Yeah.
Two? You want two?
Sure, two.
All right, two.
Good evening. You're on the air.
Good evening, Emmanuel.
How are you doing?
This is Stephen, and I'm calling from London, England.
Oh, my God. Overseas. You're listening to us now, huh?
That's right, yeah.
Wow, this is cool. This is really cool. We've finally gotten over that big body of water there.
Yeah, finally.
And, again, that phone number is 212-209-2900.
You're listening to Off the Hook, Emmanuel over here, Phil over there.
And the things that come next are going to be rather interesting, too.
We're going to be voyaging throughout the land.
In fact, there's a piece about this on our website, if you know of an interesting place that we should stop in.
We're making a little documentary of our own about what's happening with this whole Kevin thing,
with the film, with the movement to get him out of prison once and for all,
and the overall mood about hackers in general.
The Bell Atlantic strike, have you heard about that out there?
You know, I saw bits and pieces of it.
It's kind of hard when you're traveling cross-country.
Sometimes you don't know what's going on.
And, you know, you turn on the radio, and you hear various bits and pieces of the news.
So the Bell Atlantic strike, actually, that's not a big, major story.
You know, things like embassy bombings and stained dresses make for bigger news headlines.
But the Bell Atlantic thing is something that I just happened to see.
You know how they have that little, like, ticker thing on CNN headline news?
I just happened to look at that at the right moment, and I saw, Bell Atlantic's on strike.
Oh, boy, that's just great.
So, no, I didn't know they were on the verge of going on strike.
So it came as a big surprise to me.
Yeah, what had happened was the workers got together, of course.
That's what happens when you're in a union.
And they decided to go on strike.
It's already over, believe it or not.
It's over today.
Those express strikes.
Yeah.
Y2K, where people are—
Y2K is in two years.
That didn't happen this year.
Well, it's going to happen in two years.
But 1998 has really been one of the high points of people becoming aware of the fact.
Whether it's for the better, I really couldn't tell you.
But people are starting to wake up to what a lot of engineers have known for some time.
People are also starting to panic a bit.
Well, people are definitely starting to panic a bit.
There's a lot of repercussions.
People are waking up to that.
To the panic?
The fact that people are about to panic.
It's like a planned riot.
Everyone's going to start freaking out in about a year.
There's theories about that as well, if it was planned or not.
It should be really interesting, though.
It should be really interesting to see.
Future archivists who are listening to this radio show on the website,
if, in fact, there is a website in a year,
just notice the increasing intensity of our pleas to remain calm as the year goes by
and how things just sort of fell apart in the end.
I haven't pirated any DVD movies.
I don't send my friends the 5 gig or so movies.
I mean, think about it.
It's ludicrous.
Who in God's name would send a 5 gigabyte file to a friend
just so they don't pay $3 to Blockbuster to rent it?
It's nuts.
It's a total waste of time.
The DCSS has allowed myself to actually watch the four DVDs that I paid $25 a pop for.
Now I can watch Austin Powers on my computer, which I'm very thankful for.
If anything, these people shouldn't be pressing charges.
You should, because you have helped us legal people
who don't have the money for 750 megahertz Athlon computers with a gig of RAM.
All I have to say is thanks a million.
I hope you get the charges dropped.
We've gotten a lot of letters like this,
a lot of people who realize why we posted the files,
that it's got nothing to do with pirating films.
Unfortunately, these people who are after us don't seem to realize that.
So what's the latest?
Yeah, the response has been really overwhelming.
I know we put out a request for people to mirror the source code
and the executables for DCSS,
and we've gotten well over 100 responses just after asking for it.
We've gotten so many we had to stop putting them up.
It got to be such a pain.
Well, somebody who certainly knows something about the difference
between criminals and hackers
is someone we've been talking about for many, many years here on this program.
He is the center of the whole Free Kevin movement,
and, of course, that would be Kevin Midnick himself.
Kevin, are you there?
I'm here.
How are you doing?
Doing a lot better than I was a few weeks ago.
We have a new telephone company.
Or, actually, just a new name.
A new name of a new company
so that we can prepare to hate this company
and do all kinds of mean, nasty, horrible things.
Yeah, you're never going to guess.
The new company is called Verizon.
Stupid name, huh? Verizon.
Bet you don't even know how to spell it.
Verizon is spelled V-E-R-I-Z-O-N.
And I guarantee you, you will know that name.
You might not know that name today, but you will know that name in the next...
I'd say in the next month you're going to know that name.
And certainly in the next year,
you will have cursed out that name at least a dozen times.
At least.
The word Verizon, pronounced the way I'm saying it, according to them,
was selected from more than 8,500 names.
The new name comes from the Latin word veritas, which means truth.
Oh, boy, they're going to attach truth to the name of a phone company.
That's a first.
This function is void.
It takes two arcs.
The first is S-E-C, a pointer to a vector of 2048 unsigned bytes.
That are in the encrypted disk sector and will be the decrypted.
All right, I'm going to break in here.
I think that is the ECSS song, am I right?
Yes, indeed.
I was going to write it down and turn it back into code.
Don't do that. We're not allowed to.
Just in that few minutes that we just played now,
so much was alluded to.
You had Kevin Mitnick on there for a moment.
Of course, there are interviews with him in this package,
talking about Y2K, the beginning of Verizon,
all sorts of amazing milestones that we just happen to be here for
and that are fully documented.
You can join the people who have called in so far at 516-620-3602
and pledge $125 for a 23-DVD set of every single radio show we have done here,
all in full FM sound quality.
You have a time capsule like nothing has ever been seen before.
Right, and for those of you who maybe don't want to go $125,
don't want to get the DVD set but still want to help us out,
you can still call 516-620-3602
and help us out with any amount of money that you feel you can.
And while you won't get the DVD set, you'll still get the radio station
and you'll still become part of what happens here.
As a member of the station, you'll have a vote.
You'll have the newsletters.
You'll be involved in what goes on here and help shape the future of this place.
So give us a call, 516-620-3602, and help us out in any way you can.
And one of the other things, I think, to build on what Emmanuel has just said
and what Rob has just said is that keeping WBAI on the air
is not just about keeping the radio station on the air.
It's also about keeping the listeners on the air.
Emmanuel, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think in terms of radio today,
it is extremely rare to have live radio that permits callers to call in
without any kind of time delay, without any function like that.
To get a listener's voice on the air is a very, very rare thing.
Well, we do have delay. It's 7 seconds.
But other than that, you know, it's unheard of.
Even on so-called public radio stations,
so many times they're going to canned formats,
something off a satellite, something off a network.
And certainly in the commercial realm,
they don't want to hear what you have to say
because you're just someone that will buy the products that they're pitching.
That's really what it's all about.
And I don't care what the format is.
I don't care if it's country or rock or even classical.
It's all about pitching products.
And in our particular case, the products are ideas and controversy.
And if you listen to WBAI, you know this.
You've known this for quite a while probably.
The station has existed since 1960,
which makes it one of the oldest radio stations in New York City.
And the reason for that is that formats come and go
and commercial bosses are constantly being replaced by others
who do the exact same thing.
But here at WBAI, this is something valuable,
something worth preserving,
and we basically have listeners that agree with that
and that have been constantly supporting us from the very beginning.
And that's how we got here.
That shows you that it does work.
516-620-3602.
We're only offering the DVD set for this hour.
And we're not on next week.
We're not on the week after that.
We're not on again for another three weeks.
So this is your chance to get this.
And you can search high and low.
You will not find a 23-DVD set like this or exactly like this anywhere
and certainly not for a pledge as low as $125.
It's simply incredible.
Most importantly, though, as we've said,
you're supporting the radio station.
You're keeping us on the air.
So 516-620-3602 is the number to call.
And we're asking you to pledge $125 to get this DVD package.
And I was just thinking that's like $10 a month.
There's no other information service that will charge you as little as $10 a month.
And if they did, they certainly wouldn't send you a thank-you gift.
When you subscribe to your commercial radio service manual,
they won't send you a thank-you gift?
No, not at all.
It took me 45 minutes to renew it over the phone.
It was such a hassle.
There was all this miscommunication.
They didn't know how their own system worked.
I felt like it was an unpleasant experience that I had to go through all this with them.
It should have just taken a second.
It will take just a second if you call 516-620-3602.
We basically get your name, your payment information, and the premium that you want.
And thank you for helping us, for keeping us on the air.
That's what it's all about.
It's quick.
It's painless.
In fact, it's something that really feels good when you do it.
And just a note for those of you who are listening after the fact,
when we're not broadcasting live, we're not giving out this DVD set,
but you still want to help us out, you can at any time go to WBAI.org,
follow the links to support the station,
and you can choose what show you're supporting,
what show you're donating in the name of.
If you choose off the hook, then that will help this particular show stay on the station
and help the station in general.
So WBAI.org or give us a call now.
In the next 35 minutes or so, 516-620-3602.
Let's talk a little more about the history that we have just heard.
Bernie, any things that you notice that are particularly interesting?
When you just broadcast those segments, it was a real blast hearing some of those voices.
Going back a quarter of a century of hacker history,
the past 25 years has been an unprecedented period in human endeavors
with technical curiosity and all the developments that have gone on
with telecommunications, Internet, computer technology, surveillance technology,
all these things which we document so well as a history on this show, off the hook,
is there for the taking.
You can just get this entire compilation of a quarter of a century of history,
the type of stuff we talk about in the show, by calling 212.
Oh, no.
Area code 516-620-3602.
$125 will get you 1,000 hours of this stuff.
23 DVDs.
More than 1,000 hours.
Not just a mere 1,000 hours.
More than 1,000 hours, yes.
I don't know how much more, but it's a lot.
A good killer hour.
Yes, it will kill many hours, in fact.
I would have a lot of fun just spinning through the files like a dartboard
and just landing on some piece of history,
and like you just did recently on the air a few minutes ago,
every piece was like, wow, I remember that.
Or, what was this?
Oh, I remember how it connected to this.
Everything is connected.
All this stuff is connected.
This is the show that brings that to people.
I know of no other radio show, actual radio show,
that covers all these topics and connects the dots
and makes people realize that where we are now is connected to where we've been
over the past 20, 25 years in technology.
516-620-3602.
Get the 23 DVDs.
I'm being pestered to resume the excerpts because they are so interesting to listen to.
This is something that we just threw together so that you get a sense
as to some of the milestones that are covered in the 23 DVDs.
And I should also point out, we don't just give you all these audio files
and you have to find your way through them.
Every single program has a summation and a little web interface
so that you can easily find them and know where things are.
And also, all of the programs, all of the MP3 files are completely DRM-free,
meaning that you can copy them to whatever device you want
and share them with however many people you want
because that's the whole idea of doing a radio show in the first place.
516-620-3602.
Again, we can only offer this for the next 35 minutes or so.
$125, 23 DVD, audio set of every single edition of Off the Hook
from 1988 to the end of 2012.
I'm going to resume with the, I guess, the finishing of that DVD,
the ECSS song, and all kinds of other things are coming up.
For instance, remember that night that the radio station was being taken over?
Well, actually, it was taken over, and listeners were trying to get it back,
and we happened to be on the air when that happened.
We always happen to be on the air when these things happen.
We're on the air when wars start, when the police are invading the radio station,
when the week after 9-11, all kinds of things.
Was it ever established if we are, in fact, enjoined from playing the ECSS song?
Well, you know what? You can try that. I'm enjoined from it.
We can play the song. No, I think we can play the song,
but you notice that I talked over it because I'm scared of the federal authorities.
I, for one, am enjoying the song very much.
Well, okay, we can hum it later, but I don't think we can sing the lyrics.
But you can listen to it. You can listen to the whole thing.
We talk about all kinds of daring challenges.
All right, so again, 516-620-3602. Please call that number.
A vector of six unsigned bytes, the decrypted title key.
Local variables T1 through T6 are unsigned ints.
Local variable N gives a pointer to SEC plus 2048.
Dude, I've seen this before. I've seen this before at corporate-owned radio stations.
You have a family of people that have been working great with each other.
Maybe it's three months. Maybe it's three years.
And some guys make some decisions and come in and show everybody the door,
and there's armed guards there, and you're told to grab your stuff,
and they change the locks, and you get out.
That's corporate radio. I've seen it happen.
I've seen people crying outside the studio or outside the radio station,
and so then they just kick you out.
I've seen this before at corporate stations, and what's going on here sickens me,
but it's obviously corporate behavior.
It's corporate behavior, but this is not a corporate radio station.
This is a listener radio station, and that's the difference.
To see this kind of corporate thing going on at a listener-run station is something that I think is mind-boggling.
It's something that we simply can't just stand by and watch.
And the listeners of the station are the shareholders in this company, if you will,
and they should do what they can to overthrow the president as the shareholders.
I mean, if everybody that listens to the station and helps out with it is donating
and is part of the radio station, then they have every right to have their voice heard.
We have a lot of people that are really rallying.
My only concern is whether or not the police are going to give people the chance to leave before they arrest them.
They seem pretty eager.
They seem eager to arrest people, is that what you're saying?
Yeah, well, they're walking around.
There's still plastic ties out.
Some of them are untying them from their belts.
I can't tell you how bad it makes me feel.
Not that I dislike police, but seeing police in the radio station like this is just something that really makes me very queasy.
Well, some of the listeners have left now.
Now the chance is getting a little bit more quick.
There's probably about just as many police right now, or maybe just a little bit less police than there are listeners.
And it's two weeks after.
Still trying to regain a sense of normalcy, however much we can.
But I'm sure our listeners understand how difficult that is.
Not just because of what's happened, but also because of the proximity to this place, to this radio station.
Literally a few hundred feet away, there are still the remains of thousands of people that have not yet been found.
And it's just something that I just can't seem to resolve.
Well, we have a lot of things to cover tonight.
And I don't think any of it is very good, unfortunately.
But it's not completely unexpected, it's not something that...
Thank you.
It's not something that we didn't see coming.
Whenever you have such events of horror and tragedy and fear,
you can always bet that there are those on the sidelines who are waiting for the opportunity to use those events to their advantage.
And I think we're starting to see that.
I did something I seldom do, which is...
I went banking at a branch that was not where I normally go.
I think I've been there over the last 15 years like five times.
I ran a couple of errands in lower Manhattan.
And I got off the R train, still the R at that time, at Cortlandt Street.
And the funny thing is I had heard a noise when we were going through Rector, and I couldn't place it.
I figured it was a train on the other track starting, you know how that sometimes happens.
And I get out of Cortlandt Street, just south of the Millennium Hotel.
I can't remember what street it is.
The exit I got off was across the street.
And it's across Church Street from the World Trade Center site.
And I get up, and I look around.
Instead of people walking around, people are pretty much standing still, and they're looking up.
So, of course, what do you do in that case? You look up.
And there's a lot of smoke coming from the top of the North Tower of the World Trade Center.
And essentially I said, holy four-letter word.
Stopped for a minute.
Walked the block north to get a better view.
Asked somebody what happened.
Of course, you know, sirens are going off, and the fire and police are streaming in.
And somebody says, plane just hit.
I said, what?
Plane just hit the World Trade Center.
I said, holy four-letter word once again.
I found myself ashamed to be associated with the station and its regular programming.
I'd recently had the misfortune of tuning in at various times
to hear some of the most vile, vitriolic, anti-American speech I'd ever encountered.
It is not so much that the voices from the ether intelligently presented controversial viewpoints,
but that they were so adamantly defending the absolutely irrational.
This personal situation required resolution, and I've done so by leaving this program.
Hi, this is Claire, your virtual service representative.
I'm here to help you with your customer service needs.
Please speak naturally, and feel free to interrupt me at any time.
You can say things like, I have a question about my bill.
I need to make a payment.
Or, how many minutes have I used?
So, what can I help you with?
I have a question about my bill.
Hello?
Billing and payment.
If you want to pay now, or get information about your past or future payments,
say payment information.
Payment information.
Hello?
Payment information.
Yeah, that's right, that's right, you got it.
Hello?
Anyone there?
Sorry, I didn't understand.
In order to access your account,
I need to get the last four digits of the account holder's social security number
associated with your PCS account.
You can either say the numbers, or enter them using your keypad.
And you can always say help if you need more information.
So, what are the last four digits of the account holder's social security number?
Should I tell her?
I guess I can do it with touch tones, and I'll do it like,
wait a minute, I never told them my social security number.
Nice try, Sprint.
You don't have my social security number.
I'm sorry, but I still didn't understand.
I'm pacing the streets of Amsterdam,
and actually I'm going to be attempting to get Euros live on the air.
It's a very dangerous thing, especially at 2 o'clock in the morning,
but I am going to try to do it.
So you've actually seen them now?
I've seen them, I've held them, I've bundled them,
and they are pretty cool.
They really are pretty cool.
Many different kinds of coins, many different kinds of actual paper money.
And it's been a very interesting day,
I imagine throughout Europe, but certainly here in Amsterdam,
I try to get used to this.
So were you able to write,
this is money on a piece of paper and hand it to someone?
No, that didn't work out as I thought it would.
I thought it would be a lot easier to fool people
into thinking that something was a Euro when it wasn't,
but apparently they had distributed pictures of what they would look like,
so that didn't really work out all that well.
Didn't fly.
Yeah, but it actually went pretty smoothly.
I saw lots of people looking confused,
but they seem to have gotten the hang of it rather quickly.
I developed the free operating system GNU,
that most people unfortunately think is Linux
and think was developed by Linus Torvalds.
You've also cleared up how to pronounce it,
which I get into arguments with people all the time,
so the G is pronounced.
Yes, of course.
You've heard it here.
If you called it the new operating system,
you'd get people very confused.
I started it in 1984, which means it's now 18 years,
so it's not so new anymore, but it will always be GNU.
And a good evening to everybody on this auspicious occasion of...
It's kind of bizarre how things always seem to happen during our program,
but this is actually it.
The much-hyped countdown to war.
Well, this is the final hour when our show is over.
It could very well be when war officially begins.
It might even begin before then.
We're monitoring the situation.
And at this point, we really have to give you some important information
as to just what's going to be happening here at the radio station.
Obviously, things are about to hit the fan in one way or another.
We don't know exactly how things are going to go.
Nobody does.
But one thing that is vital to this community, to the New York area,
to all the people who are listening to us on the Internet,
it's important for us to have a voice,
to be able to broadcast whatever information we're able to obtain,
whatever news is not being broadcast by the mainstream media.
And that's why, for the foreseeable future at least,
the main focus of this program, as well as many others on this radio station,
is going to be the military action that is taking place,
how that affects us back here at home,
how that affects people over there.
And we're just going to try and shed our particular unique light
on events as they unfold.
There are things we know that we know.
That's right. Donald Rumsfeld actually said that, didn't he?
What was the full quote?
There are things we know that we know.
There are things we know that we don't know.
But there are things we don't know that we don't know.
And every year, we find out a few more of those unknown unknowns.
Do you think he was like throwing down the gauntlet to George W. Bush,
saying, you know, can you say this without stumbling through it?
I mean, it sounds like something George W. Bush would say,
but I think if you analyze it, it actually makes sense.
I was going to say the scariest thing about it is if you think about it,
it does make sense.
Yeah, and, you know, Rumsfeld is a guy to be scared of.
He really is. Well, Ashcroft, too.
There's a number of people in that part of the world.
I'm not scared of Tom Ridge. I don't know if you are.
He doesn't scare me. He makes me laugh.
I'm in the middle of a camp field with hundreds, if not thousands,
of computer hackers who are busy setting up for the chaos communications camp,
which starts in just a few hours on Thursday and runs until Sunday.
I have to say, if you have not yet made up your mind to come to this,
it's probably getting to be too late for you to actually make it over
and be part of this.
What's Bernie's name?
Diebold.
Diebold. Which is it?
I think it's Diebold.
I'm going to settle this. I'm going to settle this right now.
I have their phone number. I looked it up before I came in here
because I knew this issue was going to come up.
Bernie, are you still there?
I'm here.
Don't panic when you hear a dial tone.
All right.
You said Diebold, too. I'm saying Diebold because I don't know.
I took German. It's a German name,
and usually the second vowel is the one that's pronounced.
I have not called this number before, by the way.
Whatever this person says.
I'll bet a buck on Diebold.
Let's agree.
Hi, you've reached Diebold Incorporated at 1-800-93600.
Okay, it's Diebold.
Hello, you're on the air.
Hello?
Hey, guys.
Hi.
Greetings from Iraq.
Wow.
It's a Iraqi caller.
Hello, Will.
Good, how's it going, guys?
You seem to have a picture of the person up there.
Hang on.
If we're talking to Iraq and we're in Europe and Bernie's on a bus
and heading to an airport,
we're all going to have to sort of give each other time to deal with satellites
and things like that,
so let's let our caller from Iraq say the first words here.
I've got my voice over IP.
That didn't work out too well.
Bernie, you want to try?
Well, I was just going to say that I've been corresponding with Will
and forwarding his messages to the OTH at 2600.com.
He's using a service called Packet 8,
so he can call in virtually for free from Iraq.
Can you talk a little bit about that, Will?
We notice there's a strong latency, but your audio quality sounds very good from Iraq.
Audio quality of the voice over IP box out here on this Packet 8 is actually pretty good.
We ended up getting this because we found out that the government
was going to be cutting off a certain DSN access from us
when being able to call back the states and make morale calls.
But for some reason, we can attach these boxes to the network
and they're not blocking those at all.
So that's pretty much a popular thing right now.
A lot of my coworkers out here are getting these Packet 8 boxes
and jacking them into the network,
and it seems to be the only way we can actually call them.
Bernie, are you with us?
Yes, I'm on an island off the coast of Cambodia right now.
Okay, you sound pretty good.
So tell us what you've experienced in the week that you've been over there.
It's been a pretty bizarre and adventurous week here in Thailand.
There's been some odd events related to the tsunami disaster
off near the island of Phuket where I was going to be right now,
but for obvious reasons it's not a good idea for me to go there.
There's this weird dispute over the use of technology.
The country is implanting RFID microchips into the heads of all the non-Asian bodies
that are being recovered.
Approximately 1,000 bodies have been implanted.
The heads have been implanted with these RFID microchips encoded with information
like where the body was found, the date and time it was found,
any identifying marks like tattoos, scars, that sort of thing,
because those things might not last if the flesh starts rotting.
I'm sorry for this.
It sounds rather bleak.
But the controversy is not just that,
the non-Asian bodies, presumably ties, are not being refrigerated.
Apparently the government is just refrigerating the tourist bodies
who are apparently tourist bodies and burying the ties of the locals quickly
without any identifying information, in some cases in mass graves.
It's a really bizarre use of RFID technology.
This is Emmanuel.
I'm out here on a freighter, still the same freighter I was on last week at this time,
except now it's not this time anymore.
It's 2 o'clock in the afternoon for me because we've been making steady eastward progress,
and we're about 1,000 miles off the coast of California right now.
We're expected to arrive sometime on Friday.
It's been an amazing experience being on this thing for the past seven days
with another couple to go.
You just become part of this little community that's in the middle of the ocean.
It's like a little mini apartment building that you kind of go upstairs and downstairs
and see various familiar faces and kind of forget about the fact that you've got
350 18-wheel size pieces of cargo with you.
I don't know what's in these things, but we've all seen them.
They go on the back of 18-wheel trucks, or they get stacked up by the shoreline.
And these cargo ships are everywhere, and I just happened to find one of them
that will give me a ride from Washington, California, is one of the cargo ships.
Sounds fascinating.
So I think we have our special guest on the line with us.
Is this Christian?
Yes, hello.
Hello. Where are you, Christian?
I am sitting in a 9-foot by 11-foot room called the Black Box,
which is the only indoor spot to sit down and have a cigarette and a drink at the South Pole.
The South Pole.
And in addition, we're coming to you tonight for the first time over a rather different kind of technology,
something known as Skype.
We're talking to you completely through the Internet,
and we have the ability through Skype of conferencing in all kinds of people.
Right now I'm sitting in a building in Amsterdam,
but I'm going to be able to call other people as well and bring them into the conversation.
I should also point out that we're coming to you on a phone line.
Skype has the ability of using a computer.
I'm holding a microphone right now, and I'm not talking on a telephone,
and that microphone is plugged into my computer, and I'm talking to you over the Internet.
Now, what we could also do is we could have the program set up in a radio station as well,
and that would be completely free.
It would not cost even the three cents a minute that I'm paying right now,
and it would sound almost as if I was right there in the studio or in a different studio.
So it's really kind of cool.
Okay, it really is kind of cool.
I have to agree with myself there.
We're listening to some history of Off The Hook over the past 25 years, starting back in 1988,
and I'm not sure when exactly that was, but we were finally figuring out Skype,
so maybe it was a couple of months ago.
I don't know.
It was something, and so many little bits of history there, and also not only bits of history
but places that we've all been to or that we've connected with over the years,
which I find utterly fascinating.
It's actually a problem breaking in and interrupting this to let people know why we're playing this tonight,
but it is extremely important that this spur you to make a phone call
and pledge to get the full collection of every single program that we've done
and share some of that history.
The number is 516-620-3602,
and a pledge of $125 gets you 23 DVDs filled with over 1,000 hours of audio.
Any favorite moments there, Alex?
Absolutely.
I think going back to that night, and I think it was just about 13 years ago
when BAI was threatened by a corporate takeover,
and there were protests in the station,
and they wouldn't let, I think it was the listener advisory board, meet in the station anymore,
and the listeners really just rallied around the station.
I remember every weekend on Long Island at the Huntington Cinema Arts Center,
they were organizing meetings at which at least 100 people would show up,
and that night when we had the police in the station and Emanuel and I were on the air,
it was, I think, great radio, and it was scary, and it was real.
You heard it.
I think you heard it in all of our voices,
and when we left the station that night, I'll never forget that feeling.
There were literally hundreds of listeners outside banging drums, pots and pans,
and cheering when we left the building.
It was amazing.
And we got them there because all we did was talk about what was going on right in front of us,
the fact that police were inside the radio station,
that listeners were trying to have a protest to get back the station,
and I wasn't supposed to do that.
The mentality of the people who were trying to take over at that point basically was that of corporate radio,
saying that you can't talk about actual relevant things and you have to toe the party line,
and we don't do that.
We don't do a good job of that.
We won.
We won ultimately.
It was difficult.
It was a difficult year ahead of us, and of course that same year 9-11 happened,
which changed the world.
So many other things that we just touched upon for a few seconds here that were major, that were huge,
and I think that's really the way to experience history is to listen to it as it happened live over the radio.
516-620-3602 is our telephone number.
$125 pledge.
You'll get all of the one-hour shows, sometimes two-hour shows,
sometimes three-hour shows that we've done over the past 25 years, all in FM quality,
and you'll feel like you were there, and we're only touching upon a small bit of it.
We've done so many interesting things, and we want to continue doing more interesting things,
but for that to happen, there has to be a radio station.
There has to be a place we can go and talk about all this and share the various voices that we come across around the planet
because it really is a very interesting time to be around, a very interesting thing that we do.
Yes, Bernie, go ahead.
Emanuel, I just wanted to say how this show covered that incident right there about 13 years ago
when WBI was the attempted corporate takeover.
I think it influenced so many people, and it caused people to get involved
and do something that was critically important to change the future
or to keep something that was precious to them from being taken away from them.
I was wondering, Alex, you were right there then 13 years ago,
and I'm wondering if that event with WBAI and events like that inspired you to go into law
in order to help effect positive change.
You know, Bernie, there's no question about that,
and I think one of the things that we neglected to mention that night, also pretty inspiring,
was the fact that eight people, I think it was eight people, stayed in the station and got arrested,
and they spent the night in the tombs in Lower Manhattan to be released the next morning,
and then several of them showed up at the Huntington Cinema Arts Center,
and that was pretty inspiring. It was amazing.
But I have to say, going back, I've been listening to this station since I was 15 years old.
That's almost 20 years now, and at 15, I didn't know if I was going to be a lawyer or not,
but I think this was part of the ideas that were presented on the station,
and hearing the clash of ideas and hearing unusual ideas and understanding how technology and law collide,
those were the kinds of things that really inspired me,
and those are the kinds of things that you would hear only on WBAI.
So I owe the station a debt of gratitude.
I'm definitely pledging, and I encourage everyone else who's been inspired by the station to call 516-620-3602.
I've heard so many times from people saying that this show has, if not changed their lives,
certainly steered their life in a particular direction,
and I always find that really heartening to hear that we had an effect,
that we were able to provide information and direction and guidance of various sorts.
But imagine, imagine that this is just one hour of an entire week on this particular radio station,
and just imagine the magnitude of that, the number of lives that are being affected constantly that have been over the decades.
We've been around here at this radio station for 50 years.
The station went on the air in 1960.
So obviously something like that is major.
It's huge.
It's something that we all need to pitch in and preserve,
because if we don't, you know it's going to get taken over by some corporate crap that's just never going to open those doors again.
And just look around.
You'll see the wasteland everywhere you go.
The wasteland just is there, and we are, you know, not to toot our own horns too much,
but that's what we have to do.
We are the voice of sanity, but there is plenty of insanity too that goes along with that.
But that's, it's messy.
Democracy is messy.
Free speech is messy.
That's the only way it can be.
Please support that.
516-620-3602.
Only on the air for about another five minutes.
So we'd like to see as many of these sets going out in that period of time as possible.
516-620-3602.
Get the entire archived history of Off the Hook.
23 DVDs, over 1,000 hours, all kinds of history.
We're going to be closing out with a little bit more history, some of the crazy places that we've been to.
And this is really the one chance you have to get this entire set at such an amazingly low cost.
And it's a donation that we've made to the radio station because we believe in this place as well.
I think everybody here believes in this place in addition.
516-620-3602.
Any last words, guys?
Rob.
Yeah, just to reiterate, this is the only thing that keeps us on the air.
If you're hearing us right now, it's you and people like you who listen to the station,
who support the station that has kept us going for 50 years.
That's frankly insane, and it's the good kind of insane, the kind of insanity we need to keep going.
And you can help us with that by calling 516-620-3602 and showing your support for Off the Hook,
showing your support for WBAI, or after the fact, you can go to WBAI.org and do things that way.
Help us out.
I thank the people who are calling in, and please join them.
516-620-3602.
Get the entire Off the Hook set.
Write to us, oth at 2600.com.
Let's go back into a little bit more history, and we will be seeing you in three weeks with a two-hour special.
Yeah, 516-620-3602.
Get the Off the Hook full DVD set, 23 DVDs, over 1,000 hours of audio, just like this.
It's ringing.
Hello?
Hey, I hear myself.
That's pretty good.
Bernie, obviously you can't hear us.
I'm going to say a sentence now.
This is my voice over Skype as compared to Sprint PCS, and I'm imagining that it sounds much more clear.
Obviously, I was able to make the connection.
I'm talking on my cell phone now, sitting right next to you, and I sound crazy.
It's kind of hard to have a conversation back and forth because you hear me next to you.
You always sound crazy, but this makes you sound even more crazy, yes.
It's very interesting. It works very well.
Hello?
Hello.
Is this Emmanuel?
Yes, who's this speaking, please?
This is Redbird.
I'm joined here in the studio with all of your friends.
Oh, good gravy. Is it that time already?
It's Wednesday night at 7 o'clock.
My goodness, you know where I am? It's also Wednesday night at 7 o'clock.
Can you clue us in as to what your location is?
Yes, I am speaking to you from the city of Havana in Cuba.
Oh, very exciting.
Now, what are you doing?
I'm trying to detect a note of shock in your voice at hearing me say that.
You finally defected, huh?
I don't think anyone here has defined what that metrality is.
It's not a big truck. It's a series of tubes.
Hello?
Hey, my friend. You know who this is.
Oh, hey. How are you?
Pretty good. You'll never guess where I am.
Okay, tell me.
I am in Pyongyang, North Korea.
Get out of here.
Yeah, that's true.
I've got to say, this call is extremely expensive.
It's at least six euros a minute, but it's worth it just to say that this is the most incredible experience I think I've ever been through in my life.
Yes. Oh, my goodness.
Today, well, actually, maybe it's yesterday, maybe it's tomorrow. You can correct me.
It's the 20th anniversary of the very first edition of Off the Hook on WBAI. Wow.
I was invited in, and I just kind of sat around.
I was too shy to talk on the air, and I was just the guy who sat in the background and laughed a lot.
And it kind of developed into this, where now I'm here sitting and talking, and it's probably one of the greatest experiences I've had in my life.
It's completely opened my eyes to a whole new world of things, and now I hope to actually continue doing radio for the rest of my time.
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall.
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call.
Now I got a headache, or maybe it's the tooth, I'm in the know.
Things couldn't get much worse, I gots to tell the truth.
No, it couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
But I best expect the worst, I hope that's understood.
I just ran out of milk, there's no baker in the loo.
Now it's started raining, lightning thunder too.
And I begin to wonder, how bad can it get?
A bird was buzzing through my door, next to my TV set.
So I light up a cigarette, listen to some sounds.
Set my house on fire, burnt it to the ground.
Couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
But I best expect the worst, I hope that's understood.
Now I got a cold sore, my brother's on the run.
I might have a change of luck, before my day is done.
Couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would.
But I best expect the worst, I hope that's understood.
There is no big data behind you.
There is no other data that you can see.
There is no dynamite at the end.
But it's hard to get the data at the end.
Failing on the run around.
My head is wetter than a mossy sauna.
Baby be blacker, baby be whiter.
Baby be got your dynamite.
Go!
Woo, that was something.
Reminds me of the car crash I saw,
or the fire on the Meadowbrook Parkway today.
And wow, big giant fire.