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I
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And a very good evening to everybody the program is off the hook Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this
Wednesday evening joined tonight by Mike
Wow Rob T firefly good evening and
Kyle, can you hear all this weird noise?
This is not the fire engines here that I do
You know, it's like crumbly electrical static e noise. Well, hang on. I'm gonna try and isolate this
Okay, that was it it's this channel here
So whoever whoever has Mike for you no longer have Mike for Mike for is dead
Okay. So again Mike Rob T firefly Kyle. Hi and Bernie s greetings from Philadelphia
Well, we are on tonight for actually it's not much better. But I think I might be the only one hearing this right now
We're on for a regular hour this week as we battle the board
And we'll be able to take listen to phone calls talk about various things going on in the hacker world and and other
Arenas Rob. I know you are following up on something involving the upcoming hope conference
With some people might have had trouble
Registering rooms in the hotel, but I believe we have that fixed. Oh, yeah. I've been getting notes here and there that
People had had trouble finding
Rooms for the hotel the hotel was saying it was sold out one of the days at one point at another point
it was saying that there were no room rates for the no conference race for the rooms, but
Is all that?
Are we sounding as bad as we're sounding to ourselves to the people? No, because right now I'm just hearing nothing. It's static
Yeah, I think you just flatlined me. But
Yeah, we're not I see my I see my voice registering but
Someone needs to monitor air and tell us how bad we sound on the air and I don't know how to do that
Mike you're texting somebody. I don't know how that's gonna help
Okay, why don't you go outside listen to the radio as a radio in the room next door
Okay, this is welcome to the 21st century folks
Bernie you're the only one that sounds decent among us. Why don't you talk for a little while?
We try and figure this out. Are you sure you're not frying eggs there? It sort of sounds like yeah, so you're hearing it, too
I hear it, but maybe I'm just hearing it through the board whether it's going on the air or not. I I guess that it is, but
anyway
What we want to talk about some news issues. Is that what we want to talk about now? Sure. Okay
Well, I saw an encouraging story today that it I really can't even say the word on the air
It's it's Snowden
Described the FBI's claim that it could not access the information in this
Infamous iPhone 5s is it or 5c?
It's didn't says what the FBI says says they're unable to do that is
Bull something and we can't say that word on the air because of the FCC
But we've been claiming that for weeks now that we believe the FBI could already get this information out of the iPhone
So it's just nice to be asked. It's nice to know that it's known and agrees with us
And
Maybe I've lost you because I don't hear anything but frying eggs now
No, Bernie, we're trying to fix this and we sound awful whenever we talk. That's why we're trying not to talk. Okay
Well, I will I will talk over there at the frying eggs
so I can actually
Read read what Snowden?
Said what a son of Sam that one word that that we can't say on the radio because of because of the FCC
It's no didn't made an announcement, I believe on
Twitter I'm trying to bring up my computer here. Bear with me
Yes, Snowden claims
They can say that the guys claim. It can't unlock the San Bernadino iPhone is bull something
This is an article in the Guardian
It says it's known in the whistleblower whose NSA revelations sparked a debate on mass surveillance
Has waded into the arguments over the FBI's attempt to force Apple to help it unlock the iPhone 5c
Of one of the San Bernadino shooters the FBI says that only Apple can deactivate certain password
certain passcode protections on the iPhone
Which will allow law enforcement to guess the passcode by using only brute force
but talking via video from
Moscow to the common cause blueprint for a great democracy conference
Snowden said quote the FBI says Apple has the exclusive technical means to unlock the phone
Respectfully, that's bull
Snowden then went on to tweet his support for the ACLU
Report saying that the FBI's claims in the case are fraudulent
so
Good some good good news about that. I
Think the courts are I think the FBI is losing in the court of public opinion on this case because it seems like almost everybody
is
speaking up for
against the FBI and for
The idea that the government should not be able to force
Hardware and software companies to put back doors in to our products that we use so they can read and hear everything
Okay, Bernie, you can you can stop talking now for I can't even hear myself now
It sounds worse to me now. It sounds worse to you. Okay, that's yeah
Yeah, I've just been told that we're not supposed to be using this board
The only board that we have but what it's not designed to be used
Well, yeah, but you know what we're on 24 hours a day and I don't know what we're supposed to do now
It's real just call into the show and talk on the phone. I mean, that's there you go
Yeah, I got that comrex thing and we could get do that. This is embarrassing. Okay. Well Bernie
I have no idea what you were just talking about because we were trying to troubleshoot this this well
I was talking about Ed Snowden and what he said recently about this
iPhone kerfuffle didn't use the word he is did you I did not I censored the second part of the word
What was the phrase though?
Bolton Oh
Bull sugar. All right. Well, there's no need to to Boulder dash. Yeah
Can you hear me at all? I think it's clear that
The court battle being fought here is not about this one case
It's about setting a precedent even though they're denying. It's a precedent or or something
and
And the government wants the ability to make these sorts of demands in the future with less public
Input
Then then they're making now. So we so I think it's sort of irrelevant
Almost what the FBI is currently technically able to do Bernie. Is that the only story you mentioned regarding the the Apple issue?
Um, well, I I did mention that
That this seems to parallel the whole Calia thing in 94 back back then the FBI
Didn't really make their intentions that public. There wasn't much public discourse about the FBI's
Successful attempts to get all telephone companies to install hardware and software at the central office, which is to allow
Long FBI and other law enforcement agencies to directly tap in and listen to any telephone conversation in the United States
But you know that sort of just went with a went over with a whimpering and it was approved now we have much more
Communication with the public about about these issues. There's there's online communication
There was not as much of that going on in 1994 before the web existed
And now there's so much so many people talking about this now
I mean even was was talking about it on a one of these late-night comedy shows talking about
Hey, this is this is ridiculous. The FBI picked the worst possible course case law they could have
Was anybody surprised that was is going to side with Apple? Well, no, but I don't think he really cares
I think he's spoken out against Apple on in some issues, but this isn't really about Apple
I think this is about I think was certainly if he ran some other companies at the end
I think was is just taking an objective view on this frankly
I don't think he's siding with Apple because he has a lot of Apple stock
He's siding with Apple because he thinks this is the
An overreach by the government. It's not a question of stock
It's a question of knowing the company knowing knowing the ideals knowing what?
What it is they want to do knowing the people and I think he'd be on the sound
That's not surprised. He's on the same page as as the people at Apple. I'm not either
Okay, so there was an interesting
release of
statements concerning this whole
Apple issue that we talked about at length last week, but it's
This is what I've been waiting for something a bit more more relevant
as you might know the court fight between
Apple and the FBI has has prompted a whole slew of letters legal briefs from outside parties
ACLU EFF, etc
tech companies privacy grips of all sorts, but
But in the past week, there is a powerful letter that came from a collection of racial justice activists including Black Lives Matter
the letter focused on potential civil rights abuses
Should the FBI gain the power to conscript a technology company into undermining its own users security?
Now here's a quote one need only look to the days of J Edgar Hoover and wiretapping of Reverend Martin Luther King jr
To recognize the FBI has not always respected the right to privacy for groups
It did not agree with that was written by the signatories which included arts and music nonprofit beats
Rhymes and relief the Center for media justice a gathering for justice Justice League NYC
Sean King Black Lives Matter co-founder and Black Alliance for just immigration executive director opal to many
and those tactics have not ended they argue many of us as civil rights advocates have become targets of
government surveillance for no reason beyond our advocacy or provision of social services for the
Underrepresented
And yeah, you know
This is we don't hear this enough and that's really what it's all about are people that are the true victims of these kinds
Of overreaches. Yeah, we all hear what the tech companies say and and what the lawyers say
But you know, we need to hear from the people more often, right?
quite quite so and
It's it's worth remembering that it's worth remembering these these past struggles that have happened and it's easy to look back on sort of
historical missteps of the authorities in the old days
you know the the
You know the institutional racism that existed 50 years ago as opposed to that which exists now things like McCarthyism and duck
You know the anti-communist hearings and things like that and just look back on all this stuff and go how quaint, you know
Thank goodness. We've moved on be all that but we've moved on beyond that all that
but the fact of the matter is that we basically have the same authorities in place now and they just have a lot more toys
to play with and
You know, we need to we need to realize how it is. They want to play with them and whether or not
Yeah, and they're asking for more right more more powers and authority
Do you think this court case matters? I was talking to someone the other day and
Express the opinion that you know
This is really a win-win situation for the FBI if they win the court case then they get the power
That way if they lose the court case
Which actually seems somewhat likely because their legal argument is really weak in my view
But then they can just go to Congress and say hey Congress you should pass a law to give us these powers
We we tried to get them without a law, but but we failed
Do you think there's hope for actually preventing the FBI from these powers? Well, I think what this case is
Is basically the FBI dipping its toe into the water and seeing what the temperature is
Our reaction to this the the passion with which we resist this kind of a thing
I think that will dictate how they proceed in the future. If they know this there's
Insurmountable opposition
to this kind of
Activity they want to engage in then. I don't think they're going to try quite as overtly. Yeah, they'll they'll still try though
They're always gonna keep trying
But if not enough people respond to this if not enough people object or if there are people saying yeah, you know
You got it. You got to catch those terrorists yet
We all should give over, you know
The data of our phone unless we have something to hide if if that is the prevailing attitude then you can bet next week
They'll have something else on the table and and that's that's a key factor. Here is the prevailing attitude
I mean now as opposed to 50 years ago. We have things like massive online campaigns for or against things
we have the ability for for a for an issue like this to generate an
immediate and loud public response in whatever direction it's going to be and if we we've
We've seen it we've seen it in the past with things like SOPA and PIPA where
Huge campaigns get going, you know right up until the point where the big players
companies start weighing in
With the stake in it and and giving out their opinions and then what happens when people stop caring is that they just try the same
Thing again and win
well
What happens is you know?
We could talk about SOPA and PIPA and things and people don't know what we're talking about
people who aren't haven't been paying attention for the past few years or people who are new to the scene and
And they get discouraged because of that because it just seems too
Overwhelming and that's part of the tactic is that they keep hitting with one thing after another and we have to constantly be vigilant and
fighting but
It's it's overwhelming for people that are just trying to get their heads around it in the first place
Go ahead Bernie
What what Bob was just touching on on?
Reminds me that the people in Congress I think care most about
Keeping their jobs in Congress staying on the gravy train
congressional gravy train and they
They backtracked seriously with the whole grassroots movement against the SOPA bill
and
Was at the stop online piracy act
The name was really not named very
Disingenuously in my opinion, but in any case they seriously backtrack on that
Yes, did the copyright holder did the copyright industry come back?
Content industry come back and try not try to do it again later
Of course, they did they're gonna as you said, they're gonna keep trying more and more but I think with enough critical mass, I think
Not just a cyclism. It's just really interesting
Strange bedfellows are all getting together on this thing Edward Snowden the black lives matter movement the hacker community the the free speech community
The right wing the left wing a lot of people are weighing in on this issue
And it's really interesting to see how this is going to evolve
It may be that this isn't going to be I don't think in this election year. This is going to get to
Legislation, I think it's going to have to wait until the next president and it'll be interesting to see what happens then
Yeah, what I'm worried about is that they don't need legislation
They'll just figure out something like there's a story that has been passed around about the FBI quietly changing its privacy rules for accessing
NSA data on Americans meaning the FBI can just kind of peruse NSA data don't ask anybody don't have to tell anybody
You know, there's no legislation involved in that there are no laws. There's no c-span hearings
These things are constantly happening behind closed doors and we have to be aware of them
We have to fight back in one way or another and yeah
The only way we're going to be able to do that is if we we join forces with people we disagree with vehemently on other things
Because this is something that affects everybody and one way you can help is
By talking to people maybe explaining some of these stories to people that might not
Really know anything about it or think that it affects them. So
do that if you if you have a friend that may not know about it or
someone you might be able to influence and
they might
Be a passionate about it because you know them that well, but they just haven't been exposed to it
So how about parents many of us have parents or relatives of one sort or another?
Yeah, if you can reach them people who claim they're not technical who don't understand their phone or their computer if you can get them to
Realize this is important. This affects them. This is something they need to oppose as well
Then you've succeeded because then you have that groundswell of support that goes beyond our insular community and communicate that it's not
so insular community and in fact, there's a real strong resistance and they can join that and
help create the kind of
technology and behaviors associated with that technology by
Participating by the way, I expect about 50 submissions
For it for talks at the hope conference on this subject alone
Bernie, I know you're on the speaker committee as well. And and we've seen quite a lot of
Submissions coming in so far, but I know there's room for more
A lot of people have been asking when's the deadline and and really the deadline is kind of loose
It's usually sometime in April or maybe even May
But we want people to to send us their ideas all the information is at
X I hope that net slash speakers, I believe or just click on the speaker button and and and we'll have
all kinds of interesting
Conversations about this very topic and many many others if you're looking to learn about this
This is the way to do it
But would you say that we're on par with years past as far as speaker submissions? I think so
I think we've gotten some really great submissions. I mean we've gotten probably
Well over a hundred I think at this point, but we're we're looking at them in batches
Um a bunch of people on the committee and we're taking input from other people
What I'd like to do is ask our listeners on off the hook here who if you have any ideas for
Topics to be discussed at the hope at the 11th of conference
Please email us at OTH at 2600 calm because we don't just sit back and wait for a good
Talk proposals to land in our lap
We actively reach out to people that we that we think or people tell us they they want to hear someone talk or or hey
Wouldn't it be great if there was a panel on this topic or why don't you put this person in this person together?
That's where we get what we don't come up with all these ideas on our own
It's the whole community. So please email us OTH at 2600 if you have any ideas
About topics or individual speakers. You'd like to hear at the 11th. Hope
And we will act on that
Absolutely. We have lots of room. We have three at least three speaker rooms that that run for the entire weekend and
We're not I don't know what what the right word is, but but we're not stodgy about this
We don't demand to see your your credentials and your resume and things like that
This could be the first talk you ever gave you could be, you know, 12 or you could be 80
You could be from any part of the world and that's what makes help conferences
So amazing is the diversity and variety and and just the common thread that we have something to learn from each other
so don't be intimidated if you've never done this kind of thing before if you have a decent idea and you can you can put
It together in a cohesive way
Then you probably will have an audience at the hope conference in any event
We want to hear from you and we'll do everything we can to make sure that that you're heard as well
Yes, indeed
and if you're a listener to add to what Bernie was saying who
Possibly knows somebody who you believe would have something to contribute at an event like this
Let them know about it because not everyone
unfortunately knows about it and
But if you know someone who maybe has something to say to the audience at hackers on planet Earth
let them know send them to hope net and tell them that maybe they've maybe they've got something to present and
have them submit a speaker have them submit a talk because I mean we're getting such a wonderful variety of
Submissions in and seeing seeing what comes in has just been great
I mean we do have people with alphabet soup after their name and all kinds of certifications and degrees and we have people who are
complete self-taught hobbyists and both of both of whom
Have you know valid things to say on one topic or another some of them on panels together?
and it's just it's great great stuff to see some such a variety of people because the real power of something like hope is in the
Eclectic and a wonderful batch of really passionate and brilliant individuals
We get to present on such a wide variety of things and you know
Even if even if your submission is not able to be included in the schedule
We do encourage you to to present
Anyway, either through an unscheduled track or through lightning talks or through projects of various sorts that we have at the conference
So nobody is really
Excluded we try not to
To judge people in a negative way
Unless they really really deserve it. So I mean there's always one or two who really do deserve it
But it's it's they've yet to show their faces. They're not the ones if you're listening to this program
You're probably not one of them
Yeah
and I should also point out that if you are accepted for a
Talk in one of the three main tracks
You did get a free pass to the conference and if you already bought a ticket you can resell that ticket there
They're transferable. They're not refundable, but they're transferable
So that's a little bit of information that needs to be given out
Also, we have one other method that people can can get a free ticket
I don't know if we've talked about this. I meant to talk about it, but all the the static kind of
Got in the way
but we have we have a free ticket open for the first person who gets a
Legal threat from Donald Trump now, you can't give us one of your previous legal threats. A lot of people have those
I'm saying from now March 9th up until I believe
July 1st is the cutoff for this if you can be threatened by with legal action by Donald Trump
You will get a free admission to the hope conference
And this is only limited to one person because this could easily get out of hand and we could have a hundred of these things
Wait, like any legal action. It has to be a legal threat from with Donald Trump's name in it
Basically representing him in one. I mean, I know he's not gonna write the letter probably I
Just want to like I mean, I guess it's up to you, but I want to insult him now. Go ahead
Suggest you exclude like, you know, like assaulting him and stuff like that. Well, if you assault him, I don't think you get a letter
You're gonna get you know, you're gonna get a legal proceeding with his name in it. I disagree Mike
That's at least like two tickets. Look if you get if you're in the slammer, you can't go to hope anyway
so don't assault anybody let's let's just use our
Imagination a non-violent
A legal thing you think of is violence. No, it's yeah when I think of the state I think of violence. It's true, but
When I think you know, we should not encourage that sort of thanks for that enlightened outlook
Okay, let's not be violent against Donald Trump
But let's see if if any of our listeners can I can get him angry enough to file some kind of letter?
Yes, Rob
So now what what form must must this take must it be a letter on letterhead or can it be like an angry tweet on?
That Twitter account where he uses like his open palms and most of a keyboard to well
Is that is that is a tweet a legal notice of any sort a cease and desist?
I don't think it is not maybe next year. It will be but right now it's not
No, it has to be like, you know, any of the thousands of letters that we've gotten over the years
Stop doing you're saying it can be a letter from one of his his lawyers or representing
Representing his campaign or him or an actual lawsuit both of those. Sure. Yeah, if you get if you get a bonafide lawsuit
Yeah, you'll definitely get to take while assuming you're the first one
But those of you who who just get a nasty letter on behalf of him has to be on behalf of him
It can't just be somebody who's associated with him
But you know use your imagination as far as how how to get this kind of thing because there's a lot of competition a lot
Of people, you know lawyers can only work so many hours a day
And and churn out so many letters
So, you know, I think if you're creative and I know our audience is
You'll get you'll get a decent response
Okay, so I would say somebody could hack his teleprompter, but I don't think he uses a teleprompter
He just goes off on a mouth for runs off forever. Well, wait, but are you encouraging someone to hack his? No, I'm not
I'm just saying if someone were to hack his teleprompter
Okay, that would be I think that would be awesome
But I don't think he uses when he just runs off on a mouth endlessly because hope employees on are not
Excluded from this you you are eligible. You could win the ticket yourself Bernie if you want to insult him some more or you know
Encourage anything
No, okay. Are you I'm not in well
Again I'm not encouraging anyone to engage in illegal activity, but there's a lot of things that could do
I mean you could say something about his hands or something. I don't know. This whole thing is
No
Like I said, there are a lot of good ideas out there and I'm sure our listeners and readers will come up with something
Yes, Rob. Okay, but going back to what we were talking about when the static took over. Yes, why don't we do the hotel?
Oh, yeah, that's right. You ever got that out. Yeah, I did never get that out. But yeah, we were having
Some reports of people having difficulty getting getting the conference room rate or getting getting rooms for the
The duration of hope at all. And so you're saying you've confirmed this is this is fixed
I believe so. I know the problem was that people couldn't book rooms on Sunday night for some reason and that's usually the lightest night
But apparently there was some kind of glitch and it's been fixed
So you should be able to follow the the link on the XR that hope.net web page
To the hotel and and you can book rooms at a discount
Okay, and again, but if they're just calling the hotel what what should they ask for as far as the discount?
It's all on the web page. I don't have it in front of me, but the hope conference I would imagine
All right, they might have some special phrasing but you know online is probably a lot easier and faster
So so check out X I'd hope net and all the hotel info should be there and it should be working
Yes, and if it isn't let us know. Yes
And again, you can write to us OTH at 2600 comm with any questions if you have
Some mysteries you need cleared up or things you'd like us to explain. We'll try to do so we can't answer everybody, but we'll try
Okay more about Apple because it really hasn't been that great a time for Apple with all these battles and things like that now
Apparently Apple customers have been targeted by hackers in the first campaign against Macintosh computers
Using a type of software known as ransomware
Yes ransomware is one of the fastest growing types of cyber threats
It encrypts data on infected machines then typically asks users to pay ransoms and hard to trace digital
Currencies to get an electronic key so they can retrieve their data
And we hear these stories all the time about police departments that pay a certain amount of Bitcoin so that they can get their data back
It's it's a real thing
The only thing I obviously take exception to is that hackers are responsible for this. These are people
These are people that know how to how to
Send a file and infect a machine. It's not the hardest thing in the world to do
But yeah, this is this is this is real Mike
cyber thieves
Is that the word you want to use? I don't know. What word you want to use?
I don't know why you have to attach cyber to it. They're just old feet. They attach cyber
That's what I'm pointing out is that I think it's wrong. I think I don't think it has anything to do with hacking
Maybe figuring out how to get around this has something to do with hacking
That would be I think an accomplishment
but yeah
Ransomware, that's it's a thing and you can get it in all different ways
I think mostly from opening attachments that you really shouldn't be opening
I think if I remember correctly this piece came from some software that people were downloading that somehow got this ransomware attached to it
So when you download software know your source
Honestly, you know this actually I think has a little bit of a connection to the types of email
That people the way people look at email and stuff too. I mean, it's it's from like
HTML mail and things with attachments and
Seemingly harmless file extension if you use web-based email
Yes
you're much more prone to fall for this and click something you're not supposed to click if you
Like some of us we use shell based and you know
You have to think about everything you open or download before you actually do it
Like that can't be your solution this I know your solution to a lot of problems is like use technology from the 90s but like
That works better. That's what I
Like web email and HTML email in general like works better like by by any definition except except the specific one
You're using now. Well, we need to give people ways
You can put bold text in your email. Like what an amazing new feature. That's the most annoying thing in the world bold text
In the world, yeah, well, why do you need bold text in your email email?
It's just it's just maybe you're citing a book and you want italics. Uh-huh
Well, how many books do you read that have bold text in them?
Yeah, I mean great maybe but we'll go to italics if I'm
Talking about
Why you rather use web-based email because you can go bold and italics
It's not a very strong reason, you know
I like putting sometimes I have a chart and I want to put the chart in my email. Uh-huh. Well, I can see charts
It's not a problem
I emailed you images and you complain it takes you like 10 minutes to download them and get them onto your computer
I've heard this complaint from you. I don't know why you email any images
I don't anymore because I know how much trouble causes you but when I have other people who have modern email clients
I just stick the image in the email and then they look at it and we all move on with I have I have a
Radical theory about email. I don't believe I should be it's captive. All right
I read it when I'm in front of my computer and I choose to it doesn't go to my phone
I'm not answerable 24 hours a day. I choose when I want to read it
I choose how I want to read and I think everybody should have that choice and I think text-based email works just great
And you know what? I've never gotten the virus. I've never gotten ransomware because I look at these things first and okay
Well, that's great. But I'm what I'm trying to say is that people who use
Email like, you know, gmail hotmail, whatever
They are more likely to click on something. I don't know how this isn't obvious
It's right there in front of you. You might click on in fact a few times. I have used gmail
I found it extremely annoying. I see advertisements blasting their way out into my face yet another way
I've never seen that in text-based email. So there are advantages of this
I'm not saying there aren't advantages and that's with ad blocker. There are always ways to get around these things always ways
That's a very come, you know fascinating argument you're having about email, but it doesn't matter
Email is not the only venue for ransomware
I could tell you a story about a place I was affiliated with for a bit who got hit with ransomware do Tom
I wrote I won't name them
But they got they got infected with ransomware because somebody who worked there clicked a link in an instant message
and you know
It's just a virus like any other and like our friends at the personal computer show
Which come on which comes on after us can tell you there are any number of venues that a virus could use to
To attack you and once you get hit with it you're hit with it
the one one defense against ransomware because what it does is if you get hit with it it encrypts your files with a key you
Don't have and then demands you send say Bitcoin to a certain address to get that key to unlock your stuff
but a lot of this a lot of the grief that causes would be
Would be headed off at the pass if you backed up your files regularly if you practiced safe data practices, you know
Don't you know don't open up everything you're doing to the entire internet
Maybe if you're setting up a network for a business things like that where if you if you you know
Don't don't click links in IM's that you don't know where they come from
Don't open emails that you don't know where they come this all this all goes hand-in-hand with you having the power to choose what?
You want to do and how you want to do it?
You don't have to do it like everybody else does and and then you are basically responsible for your own security
All right
We can rant about email and I am for as long as we want but the specific
Case here came from people downloading a software program from the the website of the developers of that software program
Which had gotten infected and that's very hard for normal people to understand how to defend against
Yes, and you can say don't ever download software, but that's not helpful advice
Well, look if I would never do business with whoever it was that was so sloppy to let it go out in the software
They were trying to to distribute the people. They're obviously not taking taking their own
But what is your what is your criteria for determining if the software you want to download is distributed by such sloppy people?
Okay, let's let's first of all name them. Who are they transmission transmission? What do these people do?
It's a free BitTorrent client a free BitTorrent client. Okay, pretty good. I use it by the way
Well, you should stop using it if I don't I don't download it from their website. I get it from from the the Linux distribution
I use in all this random stuff. That's not relevant here. But but it's good software and their software from somebody else
You don't get it from them. Yeah, because it's safer if you get it from somebody else and not this is a detailed not relevant
to any
These are not good people to to allow yourself with if you don't trust them enough to take something from there
It's not a matter of trust. It's it's it's a matter of the the computer I use but it's not relevant to normal people
Because if you download from them, you might get ransomware. So that's I would not trust that
There was there was very recently a case with popular Linux distribution. I can't remember which one was it?
It was mint
Yeah
It was Linux mint Linux mint that the official repository the official site that people would get this popular Linux distribution from ended up
getting getting a distributing a copy that was infected and
Yeah, it's it's it's a hassle and it happens and it's part of the reality of this technological environment we find ourselves in
which means it's better if you also know to protect yourself beforehand with things like regular backups and and safer use of
Where you where you store your vital files and detection programs too, but they can be a royal pain in the ass as well
you know, I've run many
Virus detectors and and and adware malware detectors and they turn out to be more of a hassle then
Virus probably would have been I mean we've heard from you all the things you you think we shouldn't do
We shouldn't use email on the web. We shouldn't download an email client. Never said we shouldn't I said download
You should have the choice. All right. Well, what is the choice that you recommend?
To do it the way that you're comfortable
I can't tell somebody else how they should read email or how they should run their computers if it works for you
You do it that way. You don't just follow rules that make no sense to you
It's a simple thing. How but how do people get the the knowledge to know what a practice they play with things
They break things say they dive into it. That's the only way just reading a textbook and don't doing what everybody else does
That's about as anti hackers you can get. Yeah, I'm hearing in here also
kind of
support I think for OS diversity and having a sort of really
a thriving ecosystem of different different
Systems and platforms and maybe just not being like everybody else or or being like running with a large
user base and we saw this kind of with the OS wars like in the 90s and so on and and and here we are now with
a
couple different OS's on this this this mobile platform
So that that is definitely I think also
An issue here, but I don't I don't hear that you have to like embrace being an ultra
Super Luddite of some sort, but that's that's how that's how you're seen if you buck the trends if you question
You're seeing if somebody rejects everything and you know, just yelling at the kids on their lawn and stuff like that. It's it's nonsense
Can I finish?
I'm talking. All right. I'm just kidding. This isn't a debate Bernie go ahead
No, no, but
in any event, I think that it's
what I was really trying to get at when we kind of at the outset of this conversation was that I
the making of things
Making things incredibly easy
Like the friend I was I was referring to I think he was using
Mike Microsoft Outlook, which is an email program that runs on your operating system and connects
to a web-based
client through certain protocols and so on but
That's that's the method that he opened an attachment
I understand what Rob was saying to that you you can get this through thumb drives through and a Lincoln and I am
even like in a chat program on your phone, you know, if that's what the
What the virus or a malicious software was aimed at as a as a target
So in any event, I think that it's it's um, I think just important to
Be judicious about your haste
when when receiving things and make sure you're you're aware of where something's coming from and how
How quickly it might install or how quickly something could go wrong
And also the backing up is also very helpful
If you suspect your computers encrypting itself and has a bunch of weird stuff going on
maybe it's a time for you to turn it off and and
Get into maybe booting something else and looking at what's going on the drive or restoring it
I mean this gets into sort of personal computer stuff
but there are ways of dealing with this best if you suspect something's going on to turn it off and and maybe
Look at what what maybe you did and maybe roll things back if you have that capability
Ask yourself what would happen if your data today was lost if your computer blew up or or you know
Something erased everything on your hard drive
Do you have a way to recover from that because it will happen at some point something will happen
And a lot of us are not prepared for that
A lot of us don't keep regular backups. A lot of us don't even know how to do and are they actually your backups?
Or are you just like having someone else do them like as a server again?
That's the trust issue. You have to trust somebody else that they're not gonna mess. Yeah, and many times they do
Yeah, you gotta scrutinize your own process and do what's comfortable for you. I think that's the best kind of data hygiene advice
I don't know. I see nothing wrong with that if people want to use gmail
That's you know, go ahead and have fun with that if people want to use smartphones for every bit of their lives
That's on them
But you shouldn't be be pressured to do these things just because everybody else is doing it and and there's a lot
There's a lot you can learn from the way technology was built from the ground up
You know, there's a lot you can learn by building a telephone that you can't do now, obviously because nobody can build these things
There's a lot you can learn by seeing how the internet developed and and how Unix works because you know
You I know Kyle a few years ago. You didn't really know Unix at all. Now. You you're pretty much
Always in something you can see the parallels you can see how
Certain commands work in all different programs in the same basic way
And it's just it kind of makes sense after a while and you use more you feel more like you're you're a part of the machine
When when you're involved on that level? Yeah. Yeah. No, it's it's difficult and you know
You're learning like we were talking about how different programs can be packaged and you might not necessarily be the one auditing
Whatever
BitTorrent or other programs come with an operating system. That's all you get sort of to that granular level
When you mess around with that stuff and I never ever in a million years thought I would
understand if I really think about it as much as I do now, but I think also having some humility and
Going easy on yourself. There's a lot of mileage in that
Because it's incredibly disarming to people who might be knowledgeable
If you tell them I don't know that and they might share
some cool things with you
But also there's that
That spirit of lifelong learning where you're not really ever gonna. I mean every element of everything
You're not going to get right away
So you have to as I said kind of give yourself a break
But it's it's certainly true when you when you take these things on after a while. You can really
Be quite proficient in something that maybe does have a little bit of a historical
Precedent it is a historical
Item, but also still utilitarian and used in some way or another today
And you can learn so much by by messing around with things like that
And also like you said the conversations that you have with people
you know, I encourage people not to
boast about things that either they know about or they don't know about actually I think it's worse if you do know about it, but
you know
Profess how much you don't know about something I talk about, you know, these are the gaps in my knowledge
I'd like to fill or this is how I might be able to help somebody else who you might assume knows everything and
Simply doesn't I'd love to hear our listeners views on on this and other topics. Our phone number is
718 7 8 0 8 8 8 8
We're here until 8 o'clock or so
Talking about technology and the internet and hackers and all sorts of other things like that
I've got more stories to read
But I know if I start a story that phones gonna ring and then I'll have to stop in the middle
So you have a very short story. I don't I don't have a short story. I have
I have a poem but not stupid. I'm not gonna read the nasty stuff though that ransomware Wow. Yeah
Yeah, you had a friend that I think that had oh, yeah, as I said, he was really bummed
I totally messed him up for a long time with
Trying to figure it out and negotiate what to do. And I was trying to help him giving him names of
Security groups that were working on it and so on as far as
Cracking it, but okay. Well, we have some phone calls. So, let's see what other people have to say about these subject matters
Good evening. You're on off the hook
Speak up. Oh
Wait a minute. Hold on. It might be my fault. Go ahead
Hi, I'm calling you from New Jersey. Okay, and my brother
And it was hacked was had a ransom thing and his whole
External hard drive was also included you hadn't mentioned that yet
So if you'd let and if you're going to back up you should take your external hard drive off before you
Right away because they would forget that too
They got his external hard drive that he had put out all that stuff backed up on as well as
Yeah, you know, it's not if you're gonna back up your system. This is something we should point out
It's not a good idea to back it up to a drive that's connected to the system
You're backing up a lot of people might not realize that but what you should do is back something up to an external drive and
Then put that external drive in a different building somewhere away from where you are now because you know
God forbid your house burns down. You're gonna lose everything
Anyway, it should be someplace else. You should learn how to encrypt it so that if it gets stolen you don't lose all of your data
These are not difficult concepts and and this is something I think we should have workshops at the conference to help people with
Well, I do suggest that you might mention that because you talked about the importance of this whole ransom business
And I didn't hear you mention that. Okay. Well, we're mentioning it now and thanks for bringing
How did your your brother? How did he deal with the situation?
Fortunately, he had not
He had lost only six months of stuff yet
He had he had transferred it from an older computer to a newer computer and he hadn't removed it off as older computers
So he decided not to pay the ransom and just lose the stuff for six months
But boy, did I learn a lesson not to leave your external backup attached to your computer?
They can they can see that just the same as your regular hard drive
How much were the extortionists trying how much money were they demanding tell me that but it certainly must have been a lot
And yeah, you know once you start that they were going to give him the key. They took everything except his email
The only thing they left for him was his email was that their choice or because they couldn't access it
Well, they had to communicate with him didn't they I guess yeah, that would make sense
Wow, but you know, you have no guarantee if you do pay the ransom that they're going to deliver
So you should never do that. I mean, it's
Totally it's it's negotiating with ransomware people. We should not do that. Thanks. Thanks for that call. Go ahead Rob
Okay, yeah, that's that's a very important point is to is to not use a drive that's always connected
I mean, there's such a tendency for people that want something that just works in the background
They don't have to maybe do anything. They just leave it going and it goes and
Yeah, here's here's where that can really bite you in the butt. Here's another radical concept
You know, not every computer has to be connected to the Internet if you're doing a particular
Job that does not require constant communication. You can't control
How often or if it's connected to the net and
Nobody will think any less of you. Well, almost nobody. Let's take another phone call. Good evening. You're on off the hook. Go ahead
Speak up, please
Hi, what's on your mind?
I live in Florida, and I'm listening to your show once a while on the Internet, and I really like it
Something about
Somebody who wants to get sued by Donald Trump
Well, I'm of want is the right word, but just it's a relatively easy task. It shouldn't be that difficult
In fact, I'm sure someone already has has done enough before the end of the hour
But it's just you know a friendly competition. I think I'm
Poem about Donald Trump for the election and
I'm wondering if you would be interested in hearing that well, okay, you know, that's not going to be enough to get you sued, right?
Okay, is it clean and is it is it is it short
Let's go for the one-minute version go ahead. All right. It's called a grim election tale
Trumpety-dumpty
Will build a great wall like all things of Donald it will not be small
and as New Mexico, Texas to
Where the border is in need
That are bigger to than China's is what the Kublai Don decreed
Greater than the one torn down by President Reagan, Ronald
To protect our southern border with a beautiful gate decreed the Donald
They'll come by those on horseback on foot and with ladders
And Mexico will pay for it, which is what really matters
To keep out the wetbacks and Muslims, too
But something there is that doesn't love it
Okay, well that was
Interesting
I
Don't know but I bet mr. Trump's small hands are working on a legal threat right now. I don't think it's enough
I don't think it's enough but keep working on keep that spirit. Okay. Thank you
Thanks for your call and good evening. You're on off the hook. Go ahead
Yes, what's on your mind a cool question do you recommend um, I wanted to bring my kids to be a hope conference
But I don't know if they're gonna get bored. Is there an age limit that you recommend like 12 13 or well
Uh, some of our presenters are 12 and 13. So, you know, it really depends on on the kid
if I
Think many kids are interested in what goes on at the conference including the talks and definitely what happens downstairs
So a kid is always 12 or 13
Yeah, I think I think you'd be right in here. She'd be right in the middle of it all and
Emmanuel don't we have a policy on bringing kids as far as
If you bring a kid under a certain age, they don't have to buy a ticket if they're toddlers if they're infants
If they haven't been born yet things like that if they take up a seat
That's this is really the acid test
They take up a seat then, you know, they they have to have a ticket obviously
Otherwise people who have tickets will get very angry. I thought we had an height height test or an age test
But that's really ever it is. That's really difficult to do with hackers. Yeah, really sure it is
Does that answer your question sir? Yeah, pretty much. Let's want to make sure they get bored and start bugging me halfway
I don't think they're gonna get bored. I'm pretty sure they won't how old are your kids?
12 and 13. No, they're not gonna get for it
Beautiful
Angela I take care and yes Rob. Go ahead. Yeah, I just just point just to point out again to anyone who may not be familiar
It's not just a series of talks and presentations and stuff. There are activities
there are things to do there are things to get your hands dirty and and and and actively learn and
Kinds of things pray tell there there are like our in the past. We've had our friend Mitch run soldering
Workshops and and build various projects that he's got we've had lock-picking workshops
We're in I was seriously schooled by a girl of maybe seven or eight years old who was sitting next to me and doing everything
better than I could
We've we've had such wonderful things going on and I would I would love to see more people bring their kids to the hope conference
Because I would have loved to be to be brought to something like that when I was a kid
there was no such thing yet, but
For the for today's generation, there's hope and again, we also have openings for workshops of all sorts
There's a special section on the XR that hope that net website web page
Well, you can see the guidelines for that and how you can submit your ideas
We have all kinds of plans and potential things that are not yet
They're ready to be announced, but we'll be extremely cool. We have a lot of space to work with
Yeah
I was just gonna say there's a huge exhibition space that we take over for the weekend
and if you have a project or if you're an artist and you would like to show some kind of
Installation off at our event. We would love to have you so that's another way people can participate
Anything around the themes that hackers might be talking about or this summer?
And I also wanted to just add that we will have internet as well
Very fast internet the internet will come to the conference. Yeah, we'll bring the internet to the conference. Uh-huh
That's me last last time just you know, I don't want to I don't want to boast too much about this
No, no, no say it so he had a 10 gigabit connection last time at the conference
Yeah, when you consider the one before that was 50 megabit. That's that's pretty good. So I expect this time. We'll have what?
What's the next order of magnitude above that? Well, we a terabit. Is that what it is all the internet? Uh-huh
Quite a lot, but yeah, we'll we'll probably bring that back and build upon that maybe with extra-fast wireless or something
But who knows? We'll see. Hey, we have time for one or two more calls. 7 1 8 7 8 0 8 8 8 8
Please give us a call now. Yeah, I remember when connectivity at Hope meant one room full of dummy terminals
Which was pretty great for the time the public terminal room. I remember that too
In fact our first conference back in 94 also at the Hotel, Pennsylvania
We had a single 28 8 modem
One and we've had it the it was in the kitchen
Yeah, it was it was
It was no place else to put it and I think we were being denial service pretty much all weekend
So we didn't get much connectivity then but then again, there weren't many places to go on the net back then
All right. Let's take another phone call. Good evening. You're on off the hook. Go ahead. Hey, I was on your mind
I'm wondering what email programs you do recommend. It depends what OS you run
There's so many there are so many possibilities
It's really you have to decide what it is
You want out of it and then you can you can pick all kinds of different things name one that you like
I like mud. I use mud in you recommend it. Yes. Absolutely. It's my mu TT. Yes mud
Mutt there might be something called mud as far as I know, but if you're running
Any any distribution of Linux or BSD or OS is like that. I'm just running Windows
Windows then
Words not bad. Okay, I don't read mail on Windows. I've done that wait. Hang on. I gotta turn down the radio in the background
Thunderbird is made by Mozilla and that's not bad. Another one is
Yeah, Alpine's another one
Which is related to mine. Don't talk too fast Alpine
Mozilla, right. What were the other ones you said before that? Well, there's there's some
several others
sometimes integrated into
Other sort of office
Thunderbird. Oh, yeah, I said Thunderbird, which is a Mozilla. Sweet, right? Yeah, I
Would also suggest that our friends at the PC show which comes on after us would probably
Have a lot more to say based on what your particular system what you're looking for and I would suggest you
You stay tuned after us and see what they've got to say. Yeah, there's so many ways to read mail
I mean, we should never all do it the same way
You know in in Unix systems, you can type the word mail and it's like the most basic mailer ever
That's that's going too far, but it is cool to run these things and see how they work
Let's see if we can fit in one more phone call. Good evening. You're on off the hook. Go ahead
Hi, I don't want to go on the air with this. I just have a problem. I haven't gotten okay
Let me stop you right there. You're on the air now
So if you don't go on the air, are you sure you don't wanna go on the air? No, okay
I didn't get the premium that I paid for. Oh, okay. Well, that's something that is ongoing problem here at the station
I suggest you write to us OTH at 2600 comm we can address your specific
Specific details
And or contact someone at the radio station to go to be a org. Hey, that's it
we're kind of out of time and
Boy time did go fast
any announcements any any
Anything that is coming up this week or anything that happened last week
I'm not in particular. But yeah, check out hope net submit stuff. We we want more submissions
We have lots of great ones, but we want your great ones as well. Yeah, make make hope great again
Yeah, your submissions for talks for workshops just your ideas of things. You'd like to see
yeah, can't contact us through hope net and
and
Let us know
Yeah, I mean it's really it's always exciting to have hope in during an election year
Because there's always so many extra things to talk about
Not just making fun of stupid presidential candidates stupid slogans, but that's a positive news as well. Sometimes that's right
And we'll be back again next week. I believe I think that's true. It's it's so unusual to have
Us on the air so many weeks in a row without fundraising, but I think we can manage at least two. It's refreshing
Yeah, but just just one more
Thank you to everyone who did come up to bat during the fundraiser and and pitch in and help us keep doing what we're doing
Because yes, that that is the only thing that keeps us going and again our email address
Oth at 2600 comms anything on your mind you'd like to share with us
We should be back again next week same time the same station and stay tuned for the personal computer show coming up next
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