This is WBAI New York 99.5 FM and WBAI.org online.
The previous program was Economic Update with Richard Wolford right after the WBAI Evening News on Wednesdays at 6.30 p.m.
It is now 7 p.m. Stay tuned for Off The Hook coming up.
So I ripped it off the floor. I cut myself while shaving. Now I can't make a cut.
It couldn't get much worse. But if it could, we would.
Bum Diddley Bum for the best, expect the worst. I hope that's understood.
Bum Diddley Bum!
Bum Diddley Bum
And a very, very good evening to everybody. The program is Off The Hook.
It's Emanuel Goldstein here with you, joined tonight by Kyle.
Hey, how's it going?
And if everything works, we're going to bring in a couple more people right now.
I have to drag some sliders.
And we have Rob.
Good evening.
And we have Gila.
Hello.
And we have Alex.
Good evening.
All right. Let me bring you guys up a little higher there as our theme fades away.
Okay. So we're actually in four locations right now, if you count the BAI studios.
We're in the studio. Kyle and I are in the studio. Gila and Rob, you're in another studio.
And Alex, you're in a subway car, I believe.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay. Well, all of a sudden, you sound like crap. We just tested this for the last hour.
We're kidding.
Yeah. So I don't know what's going on there. But how's everybody doing?
Oh, we're doing all right. The hatches are well and truly battened down.
It's true.
I'm okay.
I'm doing better as well. How terrible do I sound? I mean, is this manageable audio?
No, this is fine. This is fine.
Okay. Gotcha.
I'm okay, too.
It might have been a geographic proximity thing. You know, since the last week, I got to say, it's been up and down for me.
Let's just update the listeners. You were sick last week, and you had to isolate yourself because we were very concerned that you might have COVID-19.
And I guess you still don't know if you had that, but you're feeling better now, right?
I am feeling a lot better. And I was feeling pretty okay on Wednesday and Thursday.
And then Friday last week, I would say, you know, sort of midway through the workday, I really started to go downhill to the point where it began to get actually scary.
And that night, I started running a much higher fever, so that was probably day six with a fever as well.
Fever spiked up higher than it had ever been to about, you know, 101.5, maybe a little bit higher.
And sweating through the night, woke up in the morning, and lots of people, you know, very affectionately, you know, reaching out to me to, you know, ask how I'm doing.
But I was in a pretty bad mood. I wasn't feeling all that great, and I felt like I just needed to get to sleep.
And I rested most of Saturday, just tried to stay away from anything that could be bad for me, drinking lots of tea, drinking lots of fluids.
These are things that are good for you, by the way.
Eating well, sleeping throughout most of the day.
And I think I really turned the corner on Saturday.
This thing, whatever it is, seemed like it peaked.
And from Sunday onwards, I've been pretty good.
I think just a very low-grade fever.
The last two days, I've barely taken any Tylenol.
And you are absolutely right, Emmanuel.
I still have no clue whether or not this is the coronavirus, the dreaded COVID-19.
Based on discussions I've had with various doctors about the persistence of this thing together with the symptoms, they think it is likely to have been or is COVID-19.
But everyone is advising me still to stay away from any of the testing facilities or any of the emergency rooms because I don't have a lot of severe symptoms that would require me to get a test.
And that raises some issues, of course.
You know, I'm hoping and praying that things stay this way.
I've heard that things can go south again, that this virus has sort of a remission period.
And I'm very much hoping that I'm just on the tail end of this and ready to move on from it, whatever it is.
But knowing whether or not you have this thing is really relevant to me because I would love to see my wife and my children again as soon as possible.
And without knowing one way or the other whether you have the coronavirus, it's difficult to say for how long you should quarantine yourself and for how long after you stop having a fever should you continue to quarantine yourself.
So it's still a bit of a mystery and will probably continue to be a mystery for the foreseeable future.
Yeah, I think that as important as people being able to find out if they currently have this, it will be really important to have some sort of antibody test to find out if someone has had it at any point, especially after the supposed peak of this episode our country and the world is facing.
It will be really, I think, important for people to know if they've recovered from this and have the ability to recover or if they were just noticing other symptoms in the midst of the seasonal change and so on.
I do have to say, Alex, what you have done is a model, I think, of what people should do.
Of course, not everybody is able to isolate themselves completely and thoroughly like you are able to, but that sacrifice, if you're able to do that and you think you might be sick, that is what prevents this thing from spreading.
And just know that you may have saved lives by doing what you did, and I think everybody needs to follow that example.
That's kind of you to say.
Literally, I'm just doing what anybody should be doing.
And, again, you know, it's easier for me.
We're lucky enough to have a little getaway place outside of the city.
I just wish that my entire family was here and I was just holed up, you know, in a bedroom, aching and fevering away over there by myself aside from, you know, just having this entire place to myself.
But, you know, such is life.
And this thing goes down at the most inopportune moments.
But it is a really weird thing being out here in the Poconos with nobody around.
I mean, I literally go days without seeing another human being.
That's not necessarily a bad thing.
It's a strange thing, but it's not necessarily a bad thing at all.
And, you know, I walk down the street with the dog.
And we go to, you know, a little lakeside area over here, and that's pretty much it.
Do you know how lucky you are, Alex, that you wound up in the Poconos in a cabin by yourself with a dog?
I mean, there are so many worse ways that you could have found yourself with this affliction.
But to have a companion like that who apparently dogs can catch this.
I don't believe they can.
But having that peace and solitude while still having your connectivity, it's kind of a microcosm of what we're all going through because you're talking about your illness peaking at a certain point.
We're still waiting for this thing to peak on a general sense throughout the entire nation.
The only difference is you're doing the right thing, and I don't think our nation is.
It's a really scary time right now to hear about people just going out and socializing and ignoring the social distancing orders.
It's bizarre to me.
I mean, having lived in New York for a very, very long time now, and now being away from it,
I can't even imagine what it's like on the streets right there, right now.
And for people to be out frolicking and enjoying life amongst each other just seems incredibly haphazard and reckless.
And that is certainly the kind of thing that we need to be avoiding right now.
Absolutely.
You know, and the other thing that's sort of scary to even hear about is that the city and the National Guard are setting up these makeshift mortuaries and morgues around the city and at various hospitals.
Also at Javits, the large exhibition centers, or maybe not Javits yet, but I know in other parts of the country.
I thought Javits was going to be a hospital.
It's going to be a morgue?
Well, I think they co-locate some of that stuff.
Yeah, I guess they need to be close to each other.
That's crazy and scary.
But what you're saying, Alex, definitely is true.
But the thing is, people don't have to isolate themselves and just stay indoors.
You can step outside.
You can walk around your house.
The thing is not to mingle with other people.
If you have a dog, walk the dog.
If you want to exercise, do that within reason.
Obviously, you don't want to make a big community event out of it.
It's common sense.
We've been outside.
Kyle and I have been walking around on the island, and it's quite nice where there's space, when there aren't people around.
Of course, we also have to go and get supplies occasionally.
And I have to say, in contrast to what you may have been hearing, things have been calm.
We've been to a bunch of different supermarkets over this whole escapade, and they've had a lot of stuff.
Some stuff they don't have, but it's never like you feel things are running out.
They're not.
People are calm.
People are gracious.
The only thing, though, that I am very concerned about is I've noticed people's driving habits.
People are driving like idiots, like going extremely fast, running red lights.
We've seen a couple of horrible crashes.
I don't know if this is panic.
I don't know if this is people just thinking it's the Wild West and they can do whatever they want.
But that needs to stop because that is how society completely falls apart.
Yeah, what people there are on the roads seem to be in a bit of a panic, or at least it's evident in the sort of way they choose to drive.
And it's really not necessary.
There's also the other side of that, people driving just incredibly cautiously when there's no one around and not at least maintaining the speed.
But it's so critical, those different businesses, but also the distribution systems, the supply chains.
They're doing a fantastic job, and it's incredible to see how important grocers and people that stock them and keep people sustained with food, how important they have become.
Something that was perhaps considered not a very prominent job is vital, and we need to thank those people and realize just how critical that is.
And that goes for truckers and, as I said, distribution centers.
All of that supply chain is really critical so that people can stay put and not be moving everywhere.
So definitely we'll be following that and stories just to make sure that those systems are in place and working.
You know, it's interesting you mentioned the long-haul truckers.
You mentioned this somewhere.
Maybe it was on this show or a different show.
Yesterday, yeah.
But they are moving things all around the country and delivering things.
But oftentimes when they deliver things, they can't even use the bathroom in the place they deliver to because of keeping the distance.
Or eating their lunch.
Yeah.
They want to wash their hands and stay hygienic, too, and they're being refused.
Or they're closing entire truck stops or just leaving some porta-potties out for, like, what, 50 trucks?
I mean, is that a good idea?
This is stuff we have to pay attention to.
I always thought they had bathrooms on their trucks.
I guess they don't.
They don't.
But there's also something I saw on social media that right now, if a trucker tries to go through a drive-thru, because there are all these restaurants that are now only open for drive-thru, an 18-wheeler is not going to fit through the drive-thru.
So the truckers are getting out, trying to go in, and they can't eat.
Yeah, exactly.
Wow.
I never even thought of that.
That's new to me.
I hadn't heard that part of it.
But that's such a great example.
If they're not packing their own lunch, where are they going to stop and dine?
Exactly.
Yeah.
We have to adjust.
We have to accommodate for people that are so important.
Okay.
So maybe we can start some kind of an organization that chases after long-haul truckers and throws food up to them or something.
You know, a package lunch.
I don't know.
Or just leave it on the side of the road.
There's a good idea in here somewhere, and we need to help each other.
That's, you know, the theme of all this.
But Rob and Gila, how are you guys doing over there in Queens?
We're generally pretty okay.
I have to tell you, I went out on a supply run yesterday, and the little Triangle Park, where we broadcast from two weeks ago, three weeks ago, whenever that was, has benches.
And yesterday, I was out, and the benches were packed with old people just chatting it up.
And I was so annoyed that I did not quite have words for it.
This is a spot where a lot of people have congregated, you know, always.
It's, you know, it's a bunch of park benches.
It's a nice little area.
But now is not the time for that.
And these are, by and large, older people, the people most at risk during this crisis.
And, yeah, people are just acting like nothing special is going on.
And that is aggravating.
Or maybe it's a big suicide pact, because really, that's the effect you're going to have.
Seriously.
And, you know, people have to listen to our leaders.
And by leaders, I mean people like our governor, people like our mayor, who are trying to knock it into people's heads, that this is serious.
They've been doing that for months.
And sometimes I feel the same frustration, that people just aren't listening.
I felt it amongst our own people.
I felt it at both radio stations.
I felt it in the streets and in stores where people aren't keeping distance or not taking it seriously or pretending they're coughing or anything like that.
But this is something that is killing people.
Look at the numbers.
Look at how the numbers have changed.
And, okay, those of you who keep comparing this to the flu, it's really, it's so inaccurate to do that.
This is far deadlier than the flu.
There is no vaccine against this deadly disease.
But the numbers that you might find a little shocking, when you have the flu, you might infect between one and one and a half other people with the flu, which is bad.
You shouldn't go around and infect people with anything.
You shouldn't go out when you're sick.
But if you do that, if you infect people with the flu, okay, you've infected 1.5 people in one iteration.
You go to 10, 10 iterations of that.
How many people have you infected?
About 15.
You've infected about 15 people.
That's not very nice, but it's a fact.
With the flu, after 10 iterations, you infect about 15 people.
Now, with coronavirus, COVID-19, it's 2.5 people that you infect.
And it might not sound like much of a difference.
It didn't sound like much of a difference to me until I looked at what people were doing with the numbers.
And do you know how many people you infect after 10 iterations of COVID-19?
It ain't 15.
It ain't 30.
It's not 100.
59,000.
59,000 people you're infecting after 10 iterations.
That's the difference.
That's why people are freaking out over this.
This isn't just a version of the flu.
This is something that could potentially kill hundreds of thousands, even millions of people.
And especially if people are idiots and go around and pretend like this isn't going to be a big deal.
Well, you know, kids are dying from this now.
Teenagers are dying.
People in their 30s.
All kinds of age groups.
There's no discrimination here.
So believe us when we say this is the real thing.
And we can come together as a community of humans all around the world and save a whole lot of lives and prevent this thing from getting worse.
And maybe learn some interesting things along the way, such as, well, how to operate a board in various remote locations.
That's kind of cool.
All kinds of online activities, books.
Hey, you know what people have discovered recently?
Drive-in movie theaters.
Yeah, they're totally safe because you're in a car.
You're not near people.
And, of course, it's hard finding them because most of them got torn down.
But all these old things of the past are coming back and are becoming quite popular.
And we have an additional responsibility, I think, here in New York, where in the latest batch of numbers, I think we still have over half the cases in the country, if I read that correctly.
New York State and New York City in particular is kind of an epicenter to this whole thing.
So, you know, you can maybe go online and see people running around and having a good time in other parts of the world, even other parts of this country.
But us here right now, we're really in the thick of it.
I'm told, folks, we might not be on the air right now.
So let's just continue talking as if we are.
So hopefully we can figure out what's going on in a second.
I don't know why we got disconnected, doing everything right on this end.
Maybe somebody kicked the cord someplace.
Kyle's trying to figure it out right now.
So let's just have a nice conversation.
I'm sure the dead air on WBAI will be joined by us pretty soon.
All right.
That's good.
Yeah.
I mean, what I was going to say in response to Rob, I've actually forgotten now.
So, you know, I'm not one to do that.
But, yeah, it's yeah.
What were you talking about, Rob?
You were talking about the I was talking about how New York here is basically the epicenter of this whole thing for our area.
Yeah, exactly.
And so what what I was reading earlier this morning, too, which is also quite scary, is that there's now recommendations for people who have been in New York for any period of time that when they leave the city, they then self quarantine themselves because New York City itself is so contagious.
It's just a really crazy thought to me.
And I mean, I think back to the end of February, which was not very long ago at all.
And things were just trucking along as normal.
There weren't these, you know, shelter and orders.
Everyone was still going to work.
And yet we all somehow knew that it was impossible that at that time, New York City could not have had zero cases that this was spreading.
It must have been spreading like wildfire at that time as well.
And we were just completely ignorant of it because there was no testing and we were literally, you know, with our heads in the sand, so to speak.
But I think there's also a component of it.
And I'm very grateful that everything has shut down and that the government has gotten involved in the way that it has because of the, you know, the buck up pilgrim sense that a lot of people have about sick time.
I can beat this.
I can get through this.
I don't need to take sick time.
And the fact that people have to distance themselves now.
Like, Rob, you had an entire subway car to yourself yesterday.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I posted a picture of that because, yeah, I was in the rush hour commute on a weekday at around 6 p.m.
And I had the entire train car to myself.
That's never happened in my life.
Maybe like when I've taken trains at stupid o'clock in the morning after very late nights, but never during freaking rush hour.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I saw that video, it wasn't video, the image that you posted, which was really just crazy.
It was, you know, surreal to me to see you at rush hour during that time, you know, in a completely empty subway car.
I'm trying to get onto WBAI.org right now and see if we are actually streaming.
Does anybody have any additional updates on that?
Not as yet, but I'm poking around and seeing if I can ping somebody who would be listening and ask if they can still hear us.
But in any case, if nothing else, I'm sure this will be recorded and posted up later.
But, yeah, it's just, it stinks what we're going through.
It's a hassle.
It's, you know, there are all kinds of things that are frightening about it, not just health-wise, but like financially, socially.
A lot of people are losing their jobs, being laid off.
But this is still something that we all have to pull together if we're going to get through this.
We have to pull together and do the right thing en masse, basically.
Yes.
There's no other option right now.
Hey, guys.
Yeah, no doubt.
I was actually just able to get to stream in some data from WBAI.org.
It does seem like we're actually just streaming on the Internet, but I'm not sure if we're broadcasting on FM.
I don't think anybody else has any additional data on that.
Hey, guys.
All right, we're back.
We're back.
Oh, you're back?
Yeah, we don't know why, though.
Kyle, do you know why?
Do you have any idea what's going on?
Guys, you were broadcasting all this time.
I think there was an Internet drop, and we had to contact the station.
I'm going to double-check with them, but go on.
All right, do you double-check.
Kyle's stepping out for a moment to figure out what's going on there, but I'm sorry about that, folks.
I don't know what people heard over the air.
What we are going to do is edit this in so that it shows up as part of the show, even though it wasn't over the air.
No worries, but we've got to throw a shout-out to our pal Reggie, who is engineering at the station right now and has been the one holding it down while the rest of us producers have not been able to come to the station to physically do our shows.
And he's doing a dynamite job, as always.
Yes.
We appreciate you, Reggie.
You can't talk back because of the connection we have right now.
It's not that kind of a connection.
Basically, we're just connected to the airwaves, and it's either us connected or the station itself.
And right now, we have a skeleton crew of people in the station.
Last week, I know we talked about how we were determined to come in every week.
And, of course, situations change in that period of time.
And now, the situation is that only a very, very small number of people can be in that facility.
And that's the responsible thing to do.
But what that means is that you're hearing either archive shows or shows that are being broadcast from remote locations, as this one is, from three different remote locations.
We're also only on for an hour tonight.
The schedule has gone back to its regular schedule.
Exploration with Michio Kaku will be following us.
Also, this week, we won't be able to take phone calls.
We're hoping to have that figured out for next week.
Basically, Kyle has put together a studio out here that rivals radio station studios.
And we're building new features every passing day.
So, we're hoping to be able to do that.
We're hoping to be able to do some interviews, pre-recorded interviews and things of that nature.
So, please bear with us.
Everybody is going through all kinds of things.
I don't know if you guys are watching some of the late-night talk shows or all broadcasting out of people's homes.
It's great.
I think, you know, this is an equalizer of sorts where you see what people are really made of.
And it's really something to see kind of rough production techniques being used.
And if you still, you know, if you still have a message when you don't have all the slick, polished studios, then you actually do have something to say.
Yeah, and it really speaks to where we are now just technologically and how really fortunate we are.
I mean, like some of us, like you guys and us here, are audio people who do this sort of thing in other works.
So, like we've got decent microphones at home and things like that to use.
But there are people out there just like celebrities, entertainers, people of that sort, just doing things on their phones, posting it to YouTube or Instagram or whatever.
I mean, Dr. Who, Jodie Whittaker, who plays Dr. Who right now, posted an in-character clip that I think she must have filmed in her house in front of a window and just, you know, telling all the fans to buck up and keep doing the right thing.
It's been fascinating to watch and see who has something to say and how they managed to put it out there despite what's going on.
So I'm being told that everything was coming through all right.
So I think it's just the software we're using was acting up a bit.
Wait, do you mean we were on the air and we were telling people we weren't on the air?
Wow. You know, I'm never going to believe you again.
When you tell me we're off the air and we're on the air, I almost cursed.
I almost said a bad word.
Yeah, I almost used a swear on the air.
You know what? Blame me.
I am going to blame you right now.
I just did blame you.
It's like Governor Cuomo.
Tensions are running high here.
You blame me for everything that goes on.
And honestly, maybe it was my fault because I checked it and that caused it to mess up.
Okay.
It would be an interesting archive to listen to.
Folks, this is what I'm talking about.
This is the roughness.
And to me, you know, when I grew up, I listened to the radio.
And it wasn't polished and slick.
And it was interesting.
You heard people make mistakes.
You heard things sound bad sometimes.
Or just you realized there was a live person doing something.
And you're seeing that more and more now.
So that's the positive that can come out of this.
So I'm not trying to make this a good situation.
But we have to try and see the good that's in the bad situation.
But apparently our engineer tried to talk to us on air as well.
And it's my fault.
I should have been in communication with them better.
And we're using software.
So it's got levels and meters and stuff.
But they're not as accurate as hardware.
So it may be telling us one thing.
What I'm getting is like an intermittent level on my software here.
Now, when I said we couldn't take phone calls, it doesn't mean we can't take tweets.
So if you want to tweet at us, can somebody in one of those other remote locations monitor Twitter?
And @HackerRadioShow is our Twitter address.
So tweet at us.
If you want us to respond to you on the air tonight in the next half hour, tweet at Hacker Radio Show.
Or you can write to OTH at 2600.com.
And I think somebody is logged in now and can monitor that email address?
Yes.
Okay, great.
Yes, we are.
And we'd like to thank Woland on Twitter for letting us know that, yes, we were coming out fine on the stream just now.
Wow, okay.
We would also like to thank our listener, Chris, who just emailed in to say that he didn't lose anything streaming over Alexa or over the radio.
Okay.
False alarm.
False alarm.
Blame Kyle.
Yeah.
Well, and thank you, listeners, for bearing with us and for having our back with this stuff.
You know, I got to...
And Bob.
Thank you, Bob.
Thank you, Bob.
We're saying the same thing.
Yes, always.
So I have to say, there's a story...
Well, let me just do a round-the-room or around wherever we are poll as far as how this emergency is being treated on, say, a federal level.
Well, specifically, let's talk about our president.
Do you think he's doing a good job?
How about Gila?
How about you?
Oh, God.
There are not enough synonyms for no for me to even begin to get in the same vicinity as my answer.
So you think he could stand some improvement?
A little bit, a little bit, a little bit.
Okay, Alex, how about you?
I tend to concur with the gentle lady from Queens.
Okay, all right.
I think he's been an unmitigated disaster.
So that's...
Okay, well, I'm kind of surprised by this.
Okay, so two negative responses.
Rob, surely you have a different perspective.
Well, I mean, I was all excited when he was saying that this is going to be wrapped up soon.
And, like, we're almost done.
But then I read the name on the tweet, and my heart sank again, because I thought it was a leader saying that.
But no, it was just the president.
So, yeah, I got to say I'm not a fan.
You too.
Wow.
Okay, so three people, again, saying that Trump is not doing a good job.
Kyle, come on.
I say that it's good to have got a lot of the private industry involved.
I'm not saying that's something that he actually did, but he championed it.
He did.
I mean, I don't know, whatever.
But he should lean more into wrangling the kind of private support.
And also, I think acquiescing to people who are experts is good.
But overall, I don't really think he's the guy.
Under these circumstances, he's not the guy I want to listen to.
Wait, so are you saying you don't approve of the job he's doing?
No, I don't.
But I'm trying to be somewhat contrarian to all the no's.
But no, he...
It's not the time to be contrarian.
All right, no.
So you're...
Okay.
It's not the best.
Well, okay, this is embarrassing for me because I thought I'd be the only one saying that I think Trump is doing an awful job and he's putting all of our lives at risk.
And that if we don't redouble our efforts to get him out of that house, we are signing our own death certificates.
I thought I was going to be the only one saying something like that.
But apparently, I'm wrong.
Apparently, everybody agrees with me.
It's kind of shocking because I just read a story that the majority of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing on the COVID-19 virus.
What Americans?
It's unbelievable.
President Trump is as popular as he's ever been right now.
This is after all the nonsense we've seen in the press conferences.
You guys been watching the press conferences?
Did you see the one he walked out of?
He walked out of his own press conference?
Yeah.
I saw footage yesterday.
Dr. Birx was speaking and she said she had been running a low-grade fever over the weekend.
And he just shook his head and peaced out of the press conference.
Okay.
That's a leader for you.
I don't really like the attack on the NBC reporter.
I thought that was despicable and deplorable.
And I mean, ridiculous.
That's not a way to calm people.
And I think the only moments in those that have been at all somewhat, that made me at least a little sympathetic are when he does acquiesce to experts and stop talking or when
there's a little bit of humor.
If he took himself less seriously, I think he'd be more tolerable.
But I think still it's not the kind of leader we should have.
Listen to this.
In a Gallup poll, 60% of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing in handling the crisis, while 38% disapprove of how he has done.
I mean, you know, hearing something like that, I just wonder, are we on different cable networks or something?
I mean, obviously we are, but are they that different?
I mean, we're watching, I mean, we're watching C-SPAN for God's sake.
That's kind of unbiased.
And you're just seeing what people are saying.
And it's simply unbelievable, the ignorance and the dangerous advice that's being given.
And to say that this person is doing a good job, it's just, it defies, I wonder if I'm living in some kind of fantasy world.
It just, I can't get my head around it.
Yeah.
And apparently NBC and some of the other networks, CNN included, the producers are basically really tired of covering the lies.
And I think that's the most reckless part is how he sort of diverges from what the action, when, when he's not acquiescing to experts, he's diverging from what they're saying and
giving misinformation out.
You saw that with some of the treatments that looked promising, but it's not the whole story.
And in fact, people have been taking chloroquine and injuring themselves.
You have the fish tank guy or fish tank cleaner guy that died.
But that stuff is, is a, a sort of promising treatment, this merit malaria stuff, but it is really toxic.
And the therapy, the therapeutic levels are toxic.
Like it could kill you.
And, and potential blindness is also a side effect.
I mean, these are, these are last resort medicine.
They are granted, granted, uh, the person doing that was not doing a very smart thing at all.
That's obvious.
But when you have the president of the United States putting ideas like that into people's heads who don't have the best judgment, that is irresponsible.
That is extremely irresponsible.
And you see Bolsonaro in Brazil, uh, going a step further and encouraging people to gather around in crowds.
And this is horrible.
This is horrible.
We have seen over the past few weeks, how quickly things fall apart.
We've seen the stock market go completely plunging into an abyss.
Uh, we've seen our society, uh, grind to a halt.
We've seen stores close.
We've seen, uh, uh, people losing their jobs and, and, and nobody really knowing what's next.
So these kinds of irresponsible, stupid statements, I can easily see leading to even more of this, even more unpredictability and, um, and, and instability in our country.
The last thing we need with, with, you know, an idiot in charge, I'm sorry for being so blunt, but this is exactly the time when you need a leader.
And if you watch the Cuomo press conferences, you see a leader, you see somebody who's getting angry, who's saying, we're not doing enough, who's, who's yelling at people who aren't
listening.
That is what we need.
Like the Italian mayors.
If you've, have you seen that, uh, mayors all over Italy yelling at people for not taking this seriously.
They're saying Italy is, it has, has the most deaths of the entire epidemic.
And for people not to take it seriously after that, that is unforgivable.
And, and people should be yelled at if they're going to be that irresponsible.
Look, I, I couldn't agree with you more here.
And I, you know, I hate to say it, but I, I have frankly given up on taking information from the president of the United States' press conferences.
I, I frankly think that the manner in which he has handled this from the outset, uh, has been nothing short of deadly.
I mean, people have lost their lives and will continue to lose their lives because of the mismanagement of this health crisis in the United States.
And, and that started with our rejection of, um, ready and workable testing kits that could have, could have allowed us to potentially get ahead of this curve that still isn't even peaking yet because we put our heads in the, in the sand for, for far too long.
And then the misinformation that he has been spouting time and time again, only to then make a major about face and suddenly start taking this, this damn virus more seriously.
I just think it's, it's incredibly dangerous that we find ourselves in a situation where we do not know whether we can trust the information that is coming out of a briefing from the president of the United States of America.
And Emmanuel, you mentioned something very interesting.
You mentioned something, uh, two words, irresponsible and stupid, if I recall correctly.
And let's think back, not too far along when there was an impeachment proceeding that was happening for, um, well, we all remember the impeachment and how that went down and it went down in exactly along partisan lines just before the coronavirus, um, pandemic really started to kick into high gear.
There was a point in time where if this country wasn't so polarized politically, we may not have had this president sitting in the white house, spouting out this propaganda misinformation and, and frankly, dangerous misdirection for his own political benefit.
So I'm, I'm incredibly, um, disappointed and, and saddened by our inability to trust the federal government and the mouthpieces of the federal government.
I mean, thank God we have some competent doctors that, um, you know, are standing next to the podium, but who knows what kind of censorship and who knows what kind of scrutiny their words are subject to before they're even allowed to speak.
Well, they are the only ones that should be listened to.
They're the only ones that should have a say in what we do next.
I'm hearing Trump saying, I want this country open by Easter.
He should not have that kind of power to say, oh yeah, go out into the streets where you're going to get a virus because it doesn't matter.
The economy is more important than your health.
Uh, a doctor should be there to overrule him.
In fact, a doctor should be there to say, you know what?
You're not fit for duty.
That's how it works in the starship enterprise.
I don't see why he can't work here.
And the doctor is there.
We, we have people like, uh, the government senior immunologist, Dr. Anthony Fauci, who's been there standing next to Trump at these press conferences, uh, gone out there like the adult in the room and, uh, said what was actually going on, um, corrected the president when he was saying wrong things.
And, um, Trump will just, uh, keep going on contradicting him when it's his job as the leader to listen to the experts, to, uh, use the available data and, uh, make a wise
decision based on that.
It is not, uh, it is not an, I'm right and you're wrong situation just because you say so.
This is medicine.
This is science.
This is what's actually going on in the world.
And, uh, you know, petulance is, is not what we need right now.
So can this doctor just go and have a press conference on his own and not tell Trump about it so that we can actually answer questions and not be overshadowed by this moron.
Um, I'm sorry for using such strong language, but it's really, it's really getting me upset here because, you know, it's one thing to laugh at all the misstatements and, and idiocy, but when you see people dying as a direct result of this ignorance and people doing stupid things because that's what they're led to believe is okay, that really, that really goes
over the line for me.
And I'm, I'm hoping it goes over the line for so many other people as well, because we need to do something about this.
But what I wonder is, can, I mean, what would stop them from simply going and, and telling it like it is and answering questions without being overshadowed by all this nonsense that
we wind up focusing, you know, in an inordinate amount of time on?
Well, I'll tell you, I mean, I don't think that there is anything stopping them from doing that.
They can do that at any moment, right?
But they will lose their jobs.
They, they are probably, uh, serving in positions of, uh, uh, that require a presidential appointment or at the pleasure of the president.
It's time the president stops feeling pleasure.
I'm sorry.
It's time people, people need to do things despite what he says.
We really, really need to do this.
However, though, you know, there, there is certainly an argument and, and I'm sure that this factors into everybody who is working on the federal response plans right now, the argument that, can I do more good from within than from without?
Um, does it make sense for me to bite my lip and hold my tongue and just grin and bear it, get, get through this?
Because I know that behind the scenes, you know, I'm, I'm making a measurable difference here.
Whereas if I came out and I said, you know, uh, the truth about the incompetence behind the scenes here, uh, I, the person would lose their job and they would lose the ability to make any, or to have any sort of impact there.
But look, I mean, to get, to bring this back down to an issue for the hacker community, um, there is certainly room for whistleblowers.
There is certainly room for people to come forward and to bring to the attention of the public and the media and, um, and to go to Congress with this information in a protected fashion, following whistleblowing procedures for federal employees, uh, information that, you know, the, the, the federal government may be withholding from us or that certain mistakes may have gone unnoticed or certain things or plans that the federal government may have.
I got to stop you.
That may not be in, in, in the public's interest.
Alex, it seems to me that it would, um, it would be quickly discredited.
I mean, every whistleblowing instance, and that's not unique to this administration, but whistleblowing in general has been just wholly discredited and at every turn, um, particularly in this administration, but in ones prior.
The other thing is the failure mode for someone, uh, biting the bullet and sticking with it is still, uh, them not saying the actual truth.
And, and is that a gamble we're willing to take?
Like, and yeah, if they get ousted or thrown out or tossed aside, you still have that failure mode.
And I think that that's, um, that's a really risky prospect, uh, you know, so if they go along with it, there's still going to be people dying.
Uh, and, um, and then on the other end, you, you could have, aside from mass casualties,
uh, if, if they don't get this right the first time they lock down every American, um, and
I've heard this multiple times, uh, in reporting, um, that, you know, they have one chance to get this lockdown right.
Because if you start mixing people again, you, you might get other diseases or this, this very disease to reemerge in a second wave as it, as it were.
But, um, you start getting, uh, you start getting people upset beyond the failings of the, the medical crisis.
They start realizing that the world they, even if they go out of their homes, the world they're entering is not the same.
You start looking at the prospect, I, I would say, this is my opinion at more at, at civil unrest at a scale you can't even fathom.
And that just would, I think, further, um, a clamp down on civil liberties and other fall on by-products of the current situation.
So it's a really tight, like fine line to walk.
Uh, so I, I really hope those, uh, officials say as much as they can in that role, but also don't give up or put themselves in a position where they're, um, uh, uh, they're, they're sort of, their say is taken out of the equation, but it's, it's, the failure is, is risky either way, right?
Yeah.
Sometimes you just have to stand up and take that chance.
And I think, you know, doing that at a, at a public event, like a press conference and saying, no, this is bad advice.
This is what you should be doing.
If that person gets fired as a result of saying that, I think that might wake some people up as to, wow, we are really in danger here because the truth is being suppressed.
I don't think people are getting that.
This, this poll tells me that people are not actually understanding, uh, what the, what the threat of here is.
They're taking it, uh, really casually and they're believing what they're told from the politicians instead of from the scientists and the doctors who know what they're talking about and aren't, uh, uh, in allegiance with any particular side.
And we've got all kinds of things going on and the, the opposition is kind of doing its, uh, thing of like just completely failing to, uh, calculate the realities of any situation in, in their responses.
We have Joe Biden right now talking about how, oh yeah, it's great how, uh, how strong a leader Trump is right now.
And what, what chance do any of us have if, uh, the functional, uh, democratic nominee is now, uh, is now out there saying that sort of thing.
Yeah, I don't, I don't get him at all.
Uh, and you know, I, honestly, I, I, I wish the situation were different.
I wish there was somebody stronger running against him, but if that's all we have, then we have to put everything behind that.
And, uh, just think of all the policies and all the intelligent people that will come in with him.
And if he can't string a sentence together or, uh, trips over himself constantly, so be it.
But it's still orders of magnitude better than the road we're going down right now.
Yeah.
I think that there's this tendency for, uh, the people in charge and the people working, uh, on, on both sides to try and play the long political game.
Like I'll, I'll keep my mouth shut on this right now because maybe I'll get this other thing further down the line and everybody has to stop doing that right now.
We don't have time to think about further down the line when it turns, when it comes to doing the right thing now for the safety of all of us.
Absolutely.
Um, Emmanuel.
Yes, Gila.
I have a listener email.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I forgot about all that.
Uh, yeah.
What kind of feedback are we getting?
Okay.
So we thank all of our listeners who have contacted us on, uh, via email, OTH at 2600.com or, uh, on Twitter to say that they're hearing us either over the air on their home assistance or whatever.
We also got an email from listener, Charlie Emanuel, who asks, what do you think about the 1.5 billion for surveillance provisions in the bailout bill? Uh, I don't know all the facts about that.
I, I, uh, the surveillance is something I'm hearing, uh, tossed around, uh, in regards to monitoring people who have the disease, uh, not necessarily electronic surveillance.
Uh, it's just, uh, a medical term, my understanding.
Yeah, it's surveying the population and the overall health and tracking transmission rates and, um, and that sort of stuff.
So there is different uses of that term in the context of, um, medical versus what we, uh, ordinarily talk about, which is telecommunications.
However, I think there is, um, a lot of, uh, realization that so much of, uh, what may have been private life now is, uh, becoming virtual and online.
There is a, I think, growing sense that, uh, more of American life than ever is now subject to surveillance, mainly because we don't have as much strong protection, um, for our, uh, web traffic and telecommunications writ large.
And, uh, this is a moment that we might, as, as, as busy as we are, we might maybe want to take a second look or at least, um, take advantage of as much encryption as you possibly can because, uh, there is a heck of a lot more information that is being digitized, uh, everything from classrooms to, uh, uh, all kinds of business, large and small, um, to say nothing of private conversations between families and, and friends.
And there are going to be all kinds of abuses and, and new developments that, um, we don't have the, the, uh, opportunity to object to in a normal, um, um, situation.
There are people that, um, um, are, are, are putting, uh, information on their phones and being tracked in that particular way to see if the, I'm not exactly sure how this works.
Maybe, maybe, uh, uh, someone here understands that better as far as, uh, being able to track the virus through your phone.
Well, yeah, there's, it seems like there's been a lot of, um, rolling out of various things.
I don't know.
I've seen commercials.
There's one called the smart 911 app, uh, which is hilarious.
It's, uh, uh, you know, if calling 911 was one thing, uh, in getting your call traced, how about having an entire app for nine one one has all your information.
Absolutely.
And, uh, and so many other pieces of software like that, that are just being rolled out as, you know, for your own good and for your safety and for your health, but, uh, not really
getting an audit and a second look by people that might, um, you know, might be looking for things that, that could, could compromise people's safety and security, um, uh, in,
in so far as, uh, uh, um, overbearing authority or, um, 
And gotten back, um, that we were promised this is for your own good and it'll just be for a little while.
Um, and we're, we're facing that now with all kinds of things trying to be snuck through behind the scenes.
Um, you know, the, the act that's, uh, the act that's in the process to attack encryption and, uh, and the use of encryption and things like that.
And so we, we have a lot on our plates right now with everything that's going on, but, uh, that doesn't mean we can, uh, let down our, our, our guard basically when it comes to everything else that's important and, uh, everything else that, uh, that we need to protect.
Can I just point out that sounded a little weird? Uh, what happened was my, my laptop, uh, the screen saved out and I entered the password and for some reason, we're losing you a little bit, Emmanuel. We can't really hear you.
Okay. I don't know what I, all I did was enter a password. I don't know why that would make me sound different. Uh, but apparently if you go into screen saver mode, uh, things get confused.
We'll fix that for the future.
Yeah, let's do that.
I can still hear you guys.
Uh, can you hear me now?
Yes.
Uh, you're, you're still muffled.
Okay.
I can hear you.
Literally haven't moved an inch. So I don't know what, uh, wow.
I can hear everyone.
Okay. Uh, we're almost out of time here. Uh, Gila, any other, um, uh, bits of feedback you want to share?
Uh, let me recheck. Um, no, but a bunch of people have told us they were able to hear us the whole time, which we appreciate.
Yeah. And we've gotten some, uh, good tweets. Uh, someone called Jimmy Hendrix on Twitter just, uh, sent us an emoji of a two fingered, uh, peace sign. Um, at least I hope that's what that is. And, uh, you know, various, various other things. Um, people do not seem pleased with Trump going by these tweets. Um, but yeah, uh, the, the point, the point is we have to get our own voices out there and keep, uh, using them for as long as, uh, we, we actually can. Um, we may not always be allowed to, but, uh, we'll always have the ability and we'll find ways.
We just don't gather outside to do it. I mean, it's, it's, it's almost scream out our windows. There are some clips of like communities of people leaning out their windows and singing
something together. 
Yeah. We need to do things like that, but I'm, I'm kind of surprised that, um, uh, this particular regime is not embracing, uh, this complete control of a population and using it, uh, more to their advantage instead of wanting it to be over by Easter. Uh, I mean, think of, think of the power. If you were smart, the power you could have by having everybody staying in their homes and doing what you're told.
Yeah. This is their dream. And so far as that's concerned, but what they don't have is an economic base and they certainly won't have it if there's a mass casualty. Yeah.
Because if the workers themselves aren't, you know, perishing left and right, their families are, and that's not good. They're going to be burdened with all kinds of, uh, uh, situations in that regard. Um, I will say it's, it's also, it is hardening to see uses of technology.
There's a lot going on with 3d printing. Rob, you might be able to speak to this. I know, um, uh, on various, uh, campuses, uh, private, uh, manufacturers, people are retooling and trying to contribute because there has been, um, a lackluster or inadequate response or late delayed response. 
People are, um, are really, um, uh, doing as much as they can, whether it's, uh, creating garments or, um, supplementing supplies and so forth. But we need a lot more of that, like 10 times more of that. 
Um, and to, to continue to augment, uh, in a positive way, um, just something I'll add to our overall critique here. 
Yeah. Um, there, there is this effort in the 3d printing community for people to make, uh, protective equipment, um, because there are shortages in medical facilities and places like that all over. 
And, um, some, some web searching can, uh, can find more on that. Uh, I can't recommend a specific one at the moment, but, uh, yeah, some 3D printing related companies have, uh, redirected their efforts and basically like, uh, like during a world war two, when factories stopped making cars and started making tanks. 
Um, this, this is, uh, this is a similar feeling now where, um, resources are being directed. 
Um, people are doing clever things and coming together in the hacker community and outside of it in really clever ways to get us all through this. 
And, uh, the people that are actually doing things, the people behind these efforts and the people throwing in on them, those, those are the heroes right now. 
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. They are, they're heroic and, uh, so crucial. I know our good friends over at Adafruit are, uh, doing that, uh, at, at this very moment, no doubt, um, retooling from, uh, creating electronic kits to, uh, to doing other things. 
And they're, they're just one example, uh, here in New York, but, uh, all over the country and the world, people are really trying to wrangle as many resources as they can, uh, in the face of this, this, uh, crisis. 
So we're, uh, we're here at OTH at 2600.com. Please, if you have ideas, if you want to connect various groups, if, uh, if you need resources and you think, uh, hackers might be able to come through with that, uh, we can definitely, uh, direct traffic as it were and make sure, um, various causes are known and, uh, and, and lend insight to telecommunications and, um, and, uh, uh, computing, uh, as well are, are really crucial at this moment. 
So everyone is getting information and everyone is getting access to that information. 
Yeah. This is, this is one of those times where the hacker community really shines as far as just being able to figure out, uh, new ways of connecting, uh, explaining technology to people that might not get it right away. 
Uh, and just basically thinking outside the box, working as a community. 
Uh, it's never been more needed than now. So, uh, please step up. I'm losing everyone here. I'm sorry. 
Well, it's a, it's a good time to lose everybody because we're pretty much out of time. Um, again, uh, our email address is OTH at 2600.com. 
Um, if you guys can still hear us, um, and, uh, you can't hear us at all. We did so well. Okay. Well, um, they can't hear us. 
Uh, but that, that was, was it a bad cable? Is that what it is? Okay. I'm, I'm messing with cables, but yeah, I'm sure everything's fine. 
It's just, uh, it's just appropriately failing right at the end of the show. Okay. No, it was a good time to fail. 
Uh, can you guys hear us at all? I'm giving you an opportunity to say good night. Well, we, we can, we can hear kind of, well, we can't hear you either. 
So there, I'm getting lag from everyone. All right. Well, I don't know what happened, but, uh, we're at the end of the hour, so that's going to have to do it for this edition of off the hook. 
This, uh, uh, exciting remote edition where you come from three different places at the same time, all piped through the studios at WBAI where things are still there. 
And massive thanks to our, uh, our engineering crew at the radio station and, uh, to all of our listeners and audience for people paying attention. I've said this a couple of times, but be vigilant, observe what's going on, keep track of it. 
Um, look out for people. The mystic, you know, what just happened, uh, computer wasn't plugged in. Uh, so because it wasn't plugged in, the battery just died and the outro went with it and now we have a horrible, well, I, I'm going to need that to play the outro. So please plug it back in and I'll turn it down and you can talk while I boot up again. 
Yeah. It, uh, it makes that hum when it goes to sleep. It's some terrible, wake it up now, electrical engineering thing where, uh, the audio has this great, like buzzing from the power supply powering the battery. 
So, uh, but when it comes back up, uh, the power is, um, I guess used by the system and, uh, it stops making that awful hum through the audio channel, which is a terrible design. 
This explains why they weren't able to hear us because the laptop was dying, dying. We didn't, we didn't, we forgot to plug it in and it's still booting up. 
So this was going to take a while. Uh, well, the reason it wasn't plugged in was because I felt like that, uh, terrible design flaw, uh, may, may come into our audio chain and we have so many different things, uh, uh, wired and cobbled together that it, it was a concern. 
That's, that's why I left it out because I didn't want that awful hum. But I guess that, uh, again is something to blame Kyle for because I'm doing it wrong. And, uh, that's, that's my, uh, expertise there in action, but I'm trying to get to the password prompt. 
Well, that's fine. I mean, I'm sure eventually the password prompt will, uh, will appear. And I know for a fact your, your, uh, outro is still there and it's probably just as good as it was before. And, um, well, I think be a good farewell. 
It'll, you know, this laptop sucks. I swear to God. Uh, okay. It says restarting now is a little circle that's spinning. 
So I heard a windows 11 is going to be based on a Linux kernel and now the power light went off. 
Wow. And now I'm back at the, uh, it's, it's restarting again. Okay. So we might not have an outro. We only have two minutes now. It was a five minute outro. 
That was, uh, it's great how everything just kind of fell apart at the end, but that's what happens on these remote broadcasts. 
It's our first run. It's a dry run at this, uh, or a live run. Uh, look at this. It's mandatory updates in windows. 
So, um, I'm stuck now. I can't do anything because it's updating and I have no, Oh wait, I might have a password now. Okay. All right. Yeah. 
That, that, that's also a factor, uh, with that particular operating system. I mean, windows 10 is just so violent. It just, it forces you to do everything. It just forced us to do an upgrade. Yeah. And as I was saying, um, I've heard windows 11 is going to be based, uh, on a Linux kernel. 
And I just, I really hope, uh, that it works better than, uh, the previous, uh, go they had at windows. 
Um, and I don't know if Apple would be much better. Mac OS probably as, um, overbearing and well, I guess we could just cut out the proprietary middleman and, and do everything in Linux. Um, but what other support might we have? I mean, we use all kinds of different, so I guess we, we just have to reinvent our proverbial wheel and, um, abandon all this proprietary stuff that, that I'm sure is the critique. 
Okay. The outro is playing, but it's not going over. Is this going to get unplugged? Oh, wow. Hmm. Uh, I can double check that. No, you know what? We're out of time. 
Uh, this is WBAI in New York. Uh, thanks everybody for listening. We're sorry for the, uh, crazy ending that we just had. 
Uh, we will be back next week if nothing else changes. And now we are turning it back over to the studios. Good night.