We continue on with the broadcast day with Off the Hook up on the decks and ready to do its thing. 
But I just wanted to remind people while that show is on the air, please consider becoming a financial supporter to this radio station by calling 212-209-2950 or go to give to WBAI.org online. 
That's 212-209-2950 or go to give to the number to give to WBAI.org online. 
All right. 
7 p.m. 
Stay tuned for Off the Hook. 
WBAI New York. 
Here we go. 
We're sorry. 
The number you have reached is not in service. 
Please check the number and dial again. 
Verizon. 
Lo sentimos. 
El número que usted ha marcado no está en servicio. 
Por favor, verifique el número y trate de nuevo. 
Verizon. 
We're sorry. 
The number you have reached is not in service. 
Please check the number and dial again. 
Verizon. 
If you'd like to make a call, please hang up and try again. 
If you need help, stay on the line and a hacker will assist you shortly. 
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off and off. 
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a call. 
We couldn't get much worse. 
But if they could, they would. 
Von Dilly Bomb put my best respect for worse. 
I hope that's understood. 
Von Dilly Bomb. 
We'll be right back. 
All right. 
When we get off the If we can, please. 
We'll be right back. 
Let's go. 
We'll be right back. 
And we have Gila. 
Good evening. 
And we have a heat wave. 
Yes, it's very hot here in New York. 
It's hot in many parts of the country, but we're going to get through it one way or another. 
Yeah, so here we are talking about high tech and hackers and various other things like that, as we do every Wednesday, most every Wednesday at 7 p.m., followed at 8 p.m. 
by overtime on YouTube. 
This week, though, as we mentioned last week and as we've been saying online in various ways, we are asking for listener help to keep the radio station going. 
Now, we broadcast not just on the Internet, for those of you who listen on the Internet. 
We broadcast over the radio as well at 99.5 FM in New York City at a full 50,000 watt equivalent of any other radio station on the dial. 
It's an incredible thing. 
It's an impossible thing. 
You could never do that today. 
And the only reason that this radio station exists is because of listeners like you, who have been supporting it since 1960, when, in the biggest show of support of all, the radio station itself was donated to the Pacifica Foundation. 
Yeah, in 1960, that really happened. 
Here's a radio station in the middle of the FM dial, which wasn't quite as popular as it became afterwards. 
And, yeah, once all the confusion was gotten past and Pacifica realized, hey, we actually do have a radio station in the middle of the FM dial in New York City, that's when the alternative programming began. 
And it has continued right up until this day. 
And many, many times it's come under threat. 
We'll get into this. 
We'll talk about some of this because history is important. 
But the upshot of it is we have this incredible resource that reaches into four different states with broadcast signal alone around the world on the Internet, obviously. 
And it's not something that you see almost anywhere else. 
There are some exceptions, but it's something to have a radio station, to have a non-commercial radio station in the middle of the commercial band. 
And what I mean by that is above 92 on the FM band is generally reserved for commercial stations, whereas below 92 is non-commercial stations. 
There are exceptions. 
But this is a big one because we're right smack in the middle, and we have never had a commercial. 
The only way we have stayed on the air since 1960 is listeners like you, either calling or going online and pledging. 
And that's what we're asking you to do right now. 
Go to the website give2wbai.org. 
Gets give the number 2, WBAI.org, and become a BAI buddy. 
And our goal today is to get 10 BAI buddies. 
What a BAI buddy is is somebody who supports the radio station on a monthly basis. 
And the beginning level is $15 a month. 
And what that does at the end of the year, that's over $150. 
That's like $180 for a year. 
And it's done seamlessly. 
It just gets deducted from your account. 
And it's the price of, what, two cups of coffee or something like that. 
But it makes a huge difference because those 10 people that call or go to the website today, that's over $1,000 that we have raised. 
It's essential that we do this in order to stay on the radio. 
And being on the radio is a huge difference than just being on the Internet. 
Why? 
Because, well, there is so much that's on the Internet. 
You really have to wade through it. 
You really have to do your own editing and figuring out what's legitimate, what's not legitimate, who knows what they're talking about, who doesn't. 
And I'm not saying that we always know what we're talking about. 
But, you know, there are qualifications to get on the radio, to get on a radio station. 
And there's also the magic of radio, which simply does not exist on the Internet. 
On the Internet, you can see who's listening. 
You can actually track their location. 
On radio, you never know. 
You never know who is listening. 
It's completely anonymous. 
You turn on a radio, and nobody's going to know you did that unless you annoy your neighbors by playing it loudly. 
So that is what has been the magic that has drawn me to radio, what's drawn all of us to radio. 
We've been doing this show since 1988, and I think that is what's kept us around. 
And I think I speak for many people on the radio station because, yes, there are other people on the radio station that do other shows. 
We'll get into that as well. 
It's that magic of radio. 
It's more than a podcast. 
Yes, it's a podcast as well. 
It's become a podcast. 
In fact, you could say Off the Hook was one of the first podcasts because we started doing this in 1997 before it was even called a podcast, I think. 
And we've continued ever since. 
So, look, all of that, all that magic, I think that's worth $15 a month to keep the station going, right, so that we have that magic. 
www.give2wbai.org. 
We also have a phone number, 212-209-2950, and you can become a BAI buddy there as well. 
And in addition to all that, there's all kinds of premiums that you can request. 
If you go to the website, you can get a full listing and decide if you want something else in return besides the magic of WBAI. 
Absolutely. 
We are a nonprofit station here. 
We are supported strictly by the public, by you out there listening. 
And a number of us in this program have worked with not just this station but other nonprofits over the years. 
And we know that if there's one thing that is a game changer to a nonprofit that is supported by donations like BAI is, it is a dependable future income. 
The BAI buddy program was a game changer. 
I remember when this was new and we were learning about it at the station and we started talking about it on the air. 
It was a huge shift in how the station could look at its future support because the income of a radio station like BAI is a question mark generally. 
The station doesn't know who's going to decide to donate tomorrow, the next day, the next month, the next year. 
But the BAI buddy program means that we have a number we can look at and say this is how much money we know is coming in next month, next year. 
And this is huge for us in the nonprofit world, in the BAI world. 
And it makes all the difference. 
So if you go to give to WBAI.org or you call 212-209-2950, any amount with which you're comfortable, it may seem like a small amount to you, but over time it piles up and every single bit of support helps. 
There's also, there are I'm sure a lot of things that are automatically charged to your credit card every month that you don't think about. 
So let us be one more. 
We're less than a gym membership, I promise. 
And $15 a month to help keep this crazy, nutty corner of FM radio where all kinds of amazing things happen all day, every day. 
We're here for one hour a week, but at any other time, amazing things are happening. 
So much excitement, so many interesting things being shared. 
$15 a month, and if I'm not mistaken, if you contribute a $25 or more gift, and that includes aggregate becoming a BAI buddy, you become a member of WBAI and get to have a voice in the governance of the station and the Pacifica network, and it gets you all kinds of fun stuff even beyond, I don't know, a BAI t-shirt or whatever premium you may get. 
But the best thing about becoming a BAI buddy, though, and as Rob said, if we have dependable income coming in, that changes the game for us. 
And it changes the game for you, too, because the more dependable streams of income we have, the less frequently we need to ask you for money. 
So, the more of you who step forward to become BAI buddies now, number one, if you become a BAI buddy in the name of Off the Hook, people know that people like us. 
So, show that we are a popular show by becoming a BAI buddy in the name of Off the Hook, that would be great. 
It's like a little fan letter to us. 
But also, very importantly, the more of you who become BAI buddies, the less frequently we have to come to ask you for money. 
Everybody wins. 
And we haven't actually done this in quite a while as far as actually devoting a show to asking for support because the way we're raising funds, it's being done a bit differently where there are special programs that are put on the air. 
Sometimes we're preempted. 
But we need to do better. 
We need to bring more in so that we can pay the rent. 
We move the transmitter. 
We're in a much less expensive location, and we're doing much better as a result of the support that we've got. 
Now, Gil, you said that it's less than a gym membership. 
And I would say that joining WBAI is like becoming a member of a gym, except not for your physical health, for your mental health. 
It's a mental gym because if you listen to the radio, and you should listen to 99.5 FM or WBAI.org, however you receive the station, you will hear all kinds of content, all kinds of music, all kinds of news and information that you never would have heard anywhere else. 
Now, does that mean you're going to agree with everything you hear? 
Of course not. 
And that is not something you should expect anywhere. 
And if you are tuning into something where you agree with everything, or if you're going someplace where you agree with everything that's said, you might be in a cult. 
So be careful. 
WBAI, we can say in all honesty about WBAI is that we disagree with people all the time, and it's great. 
It's good to argue. 
It's good to listen to somebody else's points. 
It's good to respect each other and differ. 
And I think that's something that you can learn by listening to WBAI. 
Now, I'm going to just wander around the schedule a bit. 
I don't know if you guys have WBAI.org schedules open in your browsers here, but I'm looking at all the different shows that we have. 
Almost every hour of the week is something different. 
I'm seeing programs having to do with science. 
There's exploration from Michio Kaku, the world-renowned theoretical physicist. 
I see programs about reading, about books. 
I see a folk radio show. 
I see Burn, Baby, Burn by our friend Lister Hewin-Lowe. 
It's on actually tonight at 3 in the morning. 
We play all kinds of reggae and other kinds of revolutionary music. 
It's like nothing you hear anyplace else on a New York City radio band, on any radio band. 
I see Night Shift. 
I see From the Soundboard. 
Everything Old is New Again. 
Classic programs that have been around for a long, long time, but are so important. 
And there would not be an outlet for such amazing programs were it not for WBAI. 
Yeah, you might be able to track it down on the internet, but you wouldn't find it casually driving in your car and turning on the radio and hearing something that's really awesome and forcing you to stay in your car and listen to the rest of it after you reach your destination. 
That has happened to me more times than I can even list. 
And that is part of the magic of radio. 
And it's also why so many people want to take over and turn the radio station into something else, mostly a commercial entity. 
Because despite what you might hear, radio is not dead. 
Radio is not even dying. 
Radio is doing quite well. 
It's changing. 
And a radio frequency, especially in the middle of New York City, is an extremely valuable commodity. 
And it's something that we look at as necessity, having an alternative voice to basically spread information that you wouldn't hear anyplace else. 
That, to us, is essential. 
And in times when there are important world events or local events going on, you're listening to a place that has producers and reporting that basically is there to be a voice for the community and allow all kinds of interesting stories to be shared with everyone. 
And I encourage listeners to go through and find other shows that intrigue them because there are really quite a few in the lineup. 
And we're honored to be a part of that and really to get to move around in the space of ideas. 
And that's crucial when important information needs to be shared with everyone. 
And it's crucial to the sort of intangible that we're all swimming around in, the ideas, the things that then become things that affect us in dramatic ways. 
And as far as our opportunities, I think being right all the time, it's not about that at all. 
And for many of us, I think we've grown and been challenged. 
And I always feel like it's something you're not ever going to get right, but you really do your best to articulate what kinds of opinion or what kinds of perspective you have on things. 
And it is a place that allows people to get their start, to get comfortable speaking and even talking to listeners on air. 
And a place like WBAI has less barrier to entry. 
It is there as an institution for people to interact with and also participate with. 
You can do that. 
This is your opportunity. 
Through all of the different things we've talked about over the years, there has been a lot of stress, a lot of tumult in the organization and our function. 
But the key thing is it's stuck together. 
And it is through this opportunity, one-time donations during fundraising events, but also through the WBAI buddy system. 
It is something that can be counted on, as Gila pointed out. 
And as people's budgets and as other fundraising events may fluctuate, it gives us versatility and staying power. 
And as I said, like the glue that really is making this something that you can count on. 
And here's your opportunity for us to count on you for fundraising and support. 
Take charge of your health. 
That's the name of a program on the radio. 
It's another program. 
Take charge of your health. 
I wasn't saying that to you, Kyle. 
But all sorts of other things. 
There's science, health, and healing. 
Off the hook. 
Oh, wait, that's us. 
Off the hook, yes. 
Every Wednesday. 
Black Agenda Radio, Education at the Crossroads. 
Of course, Golden Age of Radio, where Max Schmid brings you all kinds of old-time radio programs on Sunday nights. 
That is a classic. 
That is New York. 
That is something that people are used to. 
And you can hear that all the time on Sundays, 99.5 FM, starting at, I believe, 8 p.m. 
Give to WBAI.org. 
Give the number to WBAI.org. 
Become a BAI buddy. 
As I said, we're trying to get 10 new people. 
It really isn't that much. 
And hopefully we get that. 
We don't have a live update. 
We'll get emails later. 
And it would be really, really good for us and the show and the future of the show and the station if we got 10 or more new listeners or even old listeners that want to become BAI buddies as well. 
Give to WBAI.org. 
So one thing that I was thinking about is in addition to, you know, everything that we do, but thinking about what WBAI has meant, not just to New York City, but nationally, globally. 
This station has had an impact far beyond just being, you know, this fun group of fascinating programming. 
Where was Alice's Restaurant played on the radio for the first time in the United States? 
WBAI. 
That's right. 
Where did the Seven Dirty Words case originate? 
Yep. 
WBAI. 
And that minister was driving with his son. 
I think that's the story. 
Minister driving with his son was mortally offended by hearing that and started the whole FCC lawsuit that we lost. 
I wonder why was the minister listening to WBAI in the first place? 
It just goes to show you never know who's out there. 
Sometimes that's a good thing. 
Sometimes that's a bad thing. 
But, yeah, that's part of the magic. 
We've had Bob Dylan in the studio, basically debuting music when he was a youngster. 
The late Bob Fast, the incredible things that he brought to the airwaves in New York City. 
New York City would not be the same city without WBAI. 
And we've had so many incredible voices on these airwaves. 
It's probably, you know, I've said this since I first joined the station back in the 1980s, that our control room, and of course now it's virtual, but back then it was one control room. 
The main broadcasting facility, I said this is the most interesting room in the city because in the course of a day, the different people that sit in that chair and say what their expertise is or have particular guests or basically wake you up to something that you never knew about before doesn't happen anyplace else. 
No other radio station is like that. 
There just aren't that many places where you can go to have such an incredible mixture of politics, of culture, of art. 
It's just, it's absolutely amazing. 
Give to WBAI.org. 
I'm just going over the schedule here. 
It's just incredible. 
All mixed up. 
I love that show, too. 
Ralph Nader, Radio Hour. 
WBAI.org. 
Look at the schedule for yourself. 
You can listen to archives of shows and you realize what a treasure this place is. 
Do you remember a few years ago when we thought we lost the place? 
We basically found out that from out west, some faction of the Pacifica Foundation had decided to basically change WBAI. 
Now, you know, we have all kinds of altercations within the organization, and this was a particularly bad one where they came and they padlocked the doors, and they kicked everybody off the air and they put on a prerecorded recording for a couple of weeks. 
We had to go to court. 
And the thing is, the radio station was mourned in New York City. 
It was on every TV station. 
Everybody was talking about it because WBAI has been around since 1960. 
It's one of the stations that has survived so much more than any other radio station. 
Look at a radio station. 
They've either changed frequency or they've changed format sometime in the last few years. 
WBAI, though, we keep going because of the listener support. 
So losing that was a huge deal, and we had to fight back. 
We had to figure out ways to organize and to go to court and to win, and we got the station back. 
Unfortunately, those TV stations didn't report on the fact that we came back on the air, but the fact is that our power, our listener power, is stronger than any diabolical forces that literally came storming in, kicked in doors and all sorts. 
It was something. 
It's ugly, but ugliness is a part of it, and we're here to fight no matter where those battles are, whether they're international or whether they're right in our studios. 
We will, you know, it's not the first time something like that has happened. 
In 2001, we had the same basic thing happening in our old facility on Wall Street, which is another story. 
Why we were on Wall Street is a weird mixture of events, but that lasted for almost an entire year where basically the station was run in a completely different way, and through the democracy that is a part of the Pacifica Foundation, NWBAI, part of what you will become part of if you donate to the radio station at the $25 level or above, through that, we were able to, once again, get the station back. 
In fact, get the whole network back because it was really in danger. 
But, you know, when financial issues become the lead story, when every day becomes tentative, it makes those takeover attempts a lot more possible, and you have to be super careful of people that might say, hell, hey, I can save the station. 
You just got to, you know, play country music or something like that or not criticize the government so much or just be different, maybe have some commercials. 
Who's that going to hurt? 
And before you know it, the magic of WBAI, that gem on the FM radio band, is gone. 
It is so easy to lose it, so easy to lose it, so hard to gain something like this. 
But we have it. 
We have it. 
And possession here is ten-tenths of the law, as far as I'm concerned. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
And you mentioned a few years ago when the station was padlocked and we couldn't find our way in. 
And what I remember most about that whole course of events was the BAI listeners and how they turned up and how they showed their love and support for what we do and why it's important that we are able to keep doing it. 
We on this program got together and the cafe downstairs from the station very graciously let us use their event space to stream a substitute episode of the show where we were speaking frankly about everything that was going on at the station. 
And we filled that space with BAI listeners, with people from the community, people who turned up because they thought what we do here is important on this program, on this station, on this network. 
And the listeners have always been the vital component in what happens here. 
The listeners are the only reason for what happens here because without you, what are we doing? 
We're talking to nobody. 
And I have marched in protests and parades alongside BAI producers and listeners. 
I have built up some great friendships and relationships over the years with the most incredible people, both on the staff and in the listenership. 
And I really think this station is truly blessed to have the listeners that it does. 
And if you're hearing this right now, that includes you. 
Because you've got your ears pointed our way, you're part of what makes this place exist. 
And you can be such a continuing presence and a supporting part of what makes this place exist by going to gif2wbai.org or calling 212-209-2950 and becoming a BAI buddy and giving what you can to keep us going. 
You know, part of the fun of doing live radio is that all kinds of unexpected things happen during your show. 
That seems to always be the case with Off the Hook. 
I was doing a show and the WTO protest in Seattle in 1999 happened and Amy Goodman on the phone. 
But I forgot to mention, Amy Goodman, of course, Democracy Now! 
Where do you think that came from? 
That started at WBAI. 
If you've heard of Democracy Now! 
Yeah, it airs on cable TV. 
It's a TV show now. 
It airs on TV stations and networks all over the world and radio stations as well, live every weekday here on WBAI at 8 in the morning. 
But yeah, so Amy was in the process of once again being attacked by cops and this was happening in Seattle. 
Every single program that we have done here where I didn't lose the cassette is archived on 2600.com and just go to the Off the Hook section and you can listen to any show that we did and you'll hear that. 
You'll hear that episode. 
You'll hear the episode, speaking of takeovers, where the station had been taken over for the year of 2001 where there was a listener demonstration inside the station and the management at the time called the police on its own listeners and there were actually cops in the studio and I was on the air, of course, because that's just the nature of things. 
And we basically were not pretending it wasn't happening. 
We were saying, okay, there's police in the station now. 
People are being arrested. 
And that was going out and getting more listeners to come to the station. 
It was incredible, the power that radio has. 
But we were not swayed. 
And that was a turning point. 
That was a turning point because people saw what was going on and more and more people got involved as a result. 
And that kind of thing happened at other Pacifica stations on our network as well. 
And it's part of the magic of radio. 
You can't get that on a podcast for sure. 
And it's the magic of live radio as well. 
Go ahead, Gila. 
I have a question about Off the Hook and WBAI, which was what year was the April Fool's prank when you guys managed to scare the pants off half of New York City? 
Well, that's easy to find if you go to our website. 
And then scroll through and look for the April 1st shows that we've done. 
I can find out. 
I'll find out by the end of the show for sure. 
But yeah, what we did was we happened to be on April 1st. 
And we had a digitized voice that sounded quite good, actually. 
That basically sounded sad. 
And it was like the last ID of WBAI. 
And then, thanks to our friend Laszlo, who worked in commercial radio, he was able to get us this incredibly produced piece of country 99.5 FM, counting down to a celebration of the new country station on the radio dial in New York City. 
The calls that we got, I mean, people were ready to march in the streets. 
It was incredible. 
It was April Fool's. 
You have to have a sense of humor. 
But some people were angry. 
And I understand why. 
I totally do. 
Because WBAI is a lifeline to so many people. 
You know, so many people who aren't that tech savvy, who know how to, you know, get all the gizmos working properly and tune in and get your buffering right and your modems and all. 
They just want to turn on the radio and listen to something. 
And we're that voice that is always there. 
You know, the voices that are always changing into different voices, the variety, the representation. 
You know, listening to WBAI over the years, you can learn so much just by seeing how society has changed. 
And I think, you know, we've archived all of our shows. 
I hope many of the other programs on this radio station have done the same. 
But just by going through that, you hear how things have changed. 
You hear how the sound of the phone ringing has changed. 
You hear how people talk about technology in a different way. 
You hear about the hacker world before all these mega corporations like Amazon and Google existed. 
You know, what was it like back then? 
You can find out. 
And that's just from listening to the radio. 
The radio, which is free, not something you have to pay a monthly fee for everybody to have. 
It's something where you can pay monthly to support it because you want it to remain. 
Imagine if your cable company did that. 
You know, they said, here's cable. 
Pay us if you feel it's worth it. 
You know, otherwise, we're going to somehow survive anyway and just keep pumping information at you. 
We're so much better than a cable network. 
We're so much better than satellite TV. 
All right. 
We are here on the free FM radio dial, 99.5 FM. 
And we have survived because of people just like you who have either picked up the phone or gone to the website and pledged that small amount and then had thousands and thousands and thousands of people do the same thing. 
That is how we survive. 
And when that goes away, if that day should ever come, where we don't have that kind of support, then WBAI ends. 
Then it's over because the listeners don't support us. 
That's what it will take. 
And it won't be replaced by anything remotely similar. 
I think people realize how precious it is. 
And that's why people call and people go to that website. 
Give to WBAI.org. 
212-209-2950. 
Become a BAI buddy. 
$15 a month is enough to keep us going from enough people. 
We get 10 people in this hour. 
I hope we've already gotten 10 people. 
I really do. 
I hope we get 100 people, but 10 is our goal. 
And it's such a low goal compared to some of the things we've done in the past. 
But this is something very basic that we just want to show our support for the radio station as well. 
And I just hope enough people out there, I hope this resonates with them. 
And since we have people who listen all around the world, not just people listening to the radio, people listening in Europe, in Asia, on the West Coast, in Canada, it means something to you too, obviously. 
You might not be able to get the signal, but you can get the programming. 
And your support is just as good as anyone else's. 
So please give to WBAI.org. 
It's give the number to WBAI.org. 
Pick a premium or two, become a BAI buddy. 
Mention Off the Hook as your favorite show. 
I hope it is. 
Or call 212-209-2950 and speak to the nice volunteer over there that will help you out. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
Sorry. 
You talk about this show as a historical archive of what's going on at the time. 
And there is, I think, a really good example of that in a gentleman who was a guest on our program many years ago in 2012. 
And his name is Ed Piskor. 
He is now a very well-known voice in the alternative comics world. 
He's built up a great career doing comic books about all sorts of things. 
And early in his career, as an artist, he was looking for things to listen to while he was drawing. 
And someone pointed him toward the archive of Off the Hook on 2600.com. 
And he began listening and he kept listening. 
And he listened to the entire show in order, listening to everything that was happening in the hacker scene, in the news, in BAI history over all that time. 
And he ended up, this ended up affecting him to the point where he made a comic book, a graphic novel series called WYSIWYG, which was fictionalized hacker community stories based on what he was hearing in those stories. 
There's a fictional you in that book, Emmanuel. 
I forgot about that, but that's true. 
There is a fictional me in a comic. 
That's simply incredible. 
Yeah. 
Another example of how radio can really resonate, how this show in particular has resonated, and just also the magical people who are out there, the artists, the creative people that are always giving back in one way or another. 
Exactly. 
And by listening and experiencing basically in order the entire history of everything that was going on on this program over all those years, he built up a picture and a knowledge of hacker history, of the history of this program like I think no one else, like very few people in the world probably have. 
And he made a stunning piece of art with that. 
And that continues to be available. 
You can pull up the Off the Hook page on 2600.com and listen to any show from this program's beginnings nearly 35 years ago in 1988 to last week and tonight once we're done recording it. 
And it will still be there and we can keep doing this. 
We can keep making new Off the Hook. 
We can keep making all these other programs on WBAI by all these fascinating producers covering all these sorts of subjects. 
It's not just talk. 
There is music. 
There is news. 
There is all sorts of stuff to discover on the airwaves of WBAI and you can be part of what makes that happen. 
Go to give to WBAI.org or call 212-209-2950 and become our buddy. 
If you want to learn more about the BAI Buddy program, we're not explaining it to you well enough. 
You don't understand how it works. 
You can also visit buddy.wbai.org and it will all be explained to you. 
it's all there and it also tells you how to do it. 
But no, I was thinking about this because I will freely admit I didn't always know that WBAI existed. 
I didn't. 
And then I, you know, I met a guy and he said, hey, read this book. 
It's called Whizzy Wig. 
I think you'll like it. 
Hey, you should listen to this radio show that I'm on. 
Hey, you should come meet the guys I do the radio show with. 
Guy says hey a lot, doesn't he? 
It was not like one conversation, but he does say hey a lot. 
Hey. 
And you want to talk about WBAI buddies. 
I think it is fantastic that you guys are our buddies and we get to do this every single week, except when we're preempted. 
And it is the buddies that you can make around WBAI, around 2600, around the places that you find your people. 
Your WBAI buddies are your people and the best thing that you can do is to help more people find their WBAI buddies by becoming a BAI buddy. 
Minimum $15 a month, you can make amazing things happen for a lot of people. 
You know, it's funny you mention that because I was in a shop somewhere in the village at some point. 
I forget how a conversation came up about technology. 
Maybe I was looking at some books or something and somebody said, hey, there's this radio show you might like. 
It was off the hook. 
I'm like, oh, okay, I'll have to check that out. 
Thank you. 
Thank you for that. 
Kyle, I know in your days in Seattle, you were a listener, right? 
Yeah, and I'm also thinking of some times in New York when we were in line for the grand opening, I think, of the housing authority. 
There were people there that knew about it. 
You're talking about the dispensary, the marijuana dispensary. 
No, but the same thing happened. 
Well, okay, just to side step for a second, yes, we met a couple of listeners, two or three listeners actually, in that line. 
I guess maybe there's a stereotype there, I don't know, but we had such good conversations about the radio station and they were off the hook listeners as well. 
So that was pretty awesome. 
You never know. 
Open minds. 
You never know. 
But I'm talking about you in Seattle. 
I did. 
Wow. 
Yeah. 
Well, I grew to know about the radio program that we're doing now and then some of the other stations that you were involved with. 
I think I called in. 
I was brave enough to call in at one point. 
I don't know that I wrote a letter or two or anything like that, but that ability to contribute. 
No, you called in once because you figured it out. 
You figured out, yeah, I called in on this particular, and we tracked it down, and we didn't know each other then, but yeah, and you used a different name, and that's your voice. 
Wow, how about that? 
There are little bits of history that everybody that we talk to now has relating to the show where they didn't know any of us or their voice was really, really high at the time, and it's all there. 
It's all part of the history, beautiful thing. 
So, totally, yeah, that was it. 
It's just the things like that. 
I contributed a little bit, so I became a WBAI and Pacifica member. 
I think I donated at the 25 or above level, like just right around whatever I could. 
Well, thank you for that. 
If I didn't thank you before, thank you now. 
Yeah, but it's for life. 
You may not realize it, but yeah, once you become a WBAI member, it's... 
Yeah, you got sucked in all right. 
Oh, I got pulled right through the radio to get involved and to witness so much of the history at the station as it's changed and met challenges, but also to, as was pointed out, get to... 
Nobody likes being called a buddy, but a WBAI buddy, that is a high compliment. 
You can speak for everybody. 
That's probably people out there like being called buddy. 
I'm not one of them myself. 
It's not to be overused. 
But I'll become a BAI buddy. 
But WBAI buddy, that enhances it, I think, a little bit. 
Yeah. 
So to be called that, yeah, definitely. 
But this program didn't exist then, and it was just as important then. 
This gives people options. 
I really hope people go to the website, give to WBAI.org, and see what they can do. 
Check out some of those thank you items. 
It's not everything. 
It may not be the perfect thing you'd ever found, but there's great stuff there, and it really is just an add-on to what you get through the programming and through hearing what we have to say and being able to read your letters and take calls and stuff. 
But I was a listener of radio because I think early on it was a way to hear different ideas and be around things that you might not be exposed to as a student or as you're coming up and learning about the world. 
So there was great freedom in the dial and listening to and checking out what was being said on your local station. 
And you kind of learn about how that's all structured and what commercial stations are like and what the sort of strictures are around that kind of model. 
And then this sort of quirky world of like the talk and low power and student radio on the other end of the dial so to speak. 
That non-commercial end, it's so rich and interesting. 
Absolutely. 
It's deep. 
It's got amazing personality and I never in my wildest dreams would have thought I'd be able to speak as much as I can and and that I'd be as involved as I am, but it's part of sort of what so many people are intrigued about with it. 
So I just kept listening and contributed, got involved. 
I learned about what was going on. 
I learned about events, things that were going on, meetings, things that were around me in the hacker world, but also just about older technology and technology I didn't really understand. 
my concept of a subway in Seattle was like a fast food chain, like looking at the wallpaper, like that's it. 
The wallpaper had a map of the subway. 
Yeah. 
People don't know this. 
In subway fast food outlets, there's a map of the New York City subway system in there. 
Yeah, yeah. 
Like, you know, after baseball or something, you know, that was the closest I got to a subway. 
But it was growing up around and then like realizing the ideas and the diversity that cities and places that are broadcasting so many interesting things as you grow, it's pivotal. 
I think it shapes you, it challenges you. 
You know, a lot can be said, just the environment of WBAI, which is welcoming because, you know, I just walked in one day when we were on 8th Avenue. 
Our studio was there. 
Yeah, we move around a lot. 
Our studio was on 8th Avenue at the time. 
And I just, you know, walked in and said, hey, I'd like to be a part of this place. 
And they said, okay. 
And, you know, a short time later, I was actually doing radio, kind of similar to how I got started out on the island. 
I've always been interested in radio. 
I used to have this old AM radio and I'd listen to, you know, to music and record it on my cassette player in the early 70s. 
And then I got an FM radio and I started exploring that dial and finding different stations. 
And one day I found a station that hadn't come on the air yet. 
They were just testing. 
And it turned out to be the station at Stony Brook, WUSB, where I basically was going to school the next semester and they were going on the air that very same semester. 
So it was a match made in heaven. 
I walked into that place and hey, I'd like to be on the radio or not on the radio, I'd like to help out. 
And of course it takes time to be trained and to learn the ins and outs. 
And I was welcomed there and that gave me the, I guess the passion that I carried over to WBAI and have to this day. 
And that is the effect that places like this can have on people, you know, inside the studios as well as outside the studios. 
And that's why, you know, we are appealing to you. 
I mean, you know, we've been talking almost the entire show now. 
Oh my God, we only have five minutes left. 
I fully intended to talk about other things, but we're so passionate about this. 
We can talk for more hours and just, you know, tell stories. 
But I should also point out we're in the middle of a heat wave and it must be 95 degrees in the room that I'm sitting in right now. 
But that's okay because this is important and it's super important that you go to that website, give2wbai.org, give2wbai.org, become a BAI buddy. 
Please become a BAI buddy and support us, support Off the Hook, support WBAI and help us reach that goal of all 10 people for this hour and it'll make us feel great. 
It'll make the station feel great. 
It'll keep us going on the air and it'll be there for the next person to turn on one day and become completely entranced by. 
It really is reaffirming to get our turnout, to get interest. 
If you haven't, be a part of the rush of people. 
Hopefully we're above five. 
maybe we have a dozen of those WBAI buddy memberships in progress or people running to the phone to participate in this. 
Unlike other organizations, which I'm not going to name, we don't have high-paid executives. 
We don't have posh studios. 
When you pledge, you can bet that your pledge is going to keep the radio station on the air, to pay the bills, to keep the lights on, all of that. 
We've done a good job of it. 
It's been rocky at times, for sure, but what isn't? 
Since 1960, imagine that, 1960, what the radio dial was like back then, to have this station. 
Pacifica Foundation had existed since 1949. 
There were stations out west. 
The whole reason WBAI was donated in the first place was because the owner of 99.5 FM in New York City was out in California and happened to hear one of the Pacifica stations and was so, so entranced by that that he said, you know what, I'm going to give my radio station to these people. 
And what a great, generous move that was, and imagine the millions and millions of lives that were affected by that. 
Well, you can affect people, too. 
It might not be millions and millions of people, but it can certainly be a large number by keeping WBAI strong, by opening the door for the next person who has an idea for a radio show, or by just telling somebody, hey, this is a cool show, you might want to listen to it. 
You know, it's the word of mouth is something we've been doing here for many decades. 
And I've got to say, it works. 
And in a place like New York, New York City, you know, when we almost lost the place a few years ago, you know, it was so emotional thinking of New York City without WBAI. 
You know, it just was, it just seemed so hollow. 
Well, the way it was done, too, if you were part of the critical staff, the people that are here operationally, the engineers, they were really, really bum-rushed. 
They were shocked. 
They were pressed by force and people that were incredibly hostile to what they dedicate their lives to, this was a traumatic attempt. 
And I think it is through their, through that kind of adversity and the people that have heard this call before that we are still here, that resilience, it didn't go away with those types of things or whatever calamity, whether it's a storm or real estate issues or other stuff. 
That is actually by design. 
Okay, we're supposed to be a dynamic organization. 
It's not structured like a commercial entity and that's so that people, actors in the community can be a part of the process and you get to be involved right now by going to give to WBAI.org. 
.org. 
You mentioned storms and I'm thinking sandy. 
You know, I wasn't there at the time but that was our Wall Street Studios where the water was rising up to the point where, you know, lampposts go like that high because it's right on the East River and that was something and of course that forced us to move up to Harlem. 
I think I mentioned pretty much all the studios that we've been in during my time. 
There were more before that. 
But there was also 9-11, only blocks away, again, our Wall Street Studios. 
These were things that we basically got through and got through with our listeners and provided a unique perspective to. 
And there are going to be challenges ahead, what we were talking about with the attempted takeover or shutdown a few years ago. 
You know, these threats can come from people who think they're a part of the organization. 
But actually have infiltrated the organization and are a threat. 
But the organization is strong. 
The listeners are strong. 
We can identify things like this and we can conquer them and we have. 
And we probably will have to again in the future. 
But we will need your help on that front and on the financial front. 
Give to WBAI.org. 
Please become a BAI buddy, 212-209-2950. 
And tell a friend too because we need all the support we can get to keep this place going. 
Hey, you'll hear other fundraisers in other places. 
You'll notice they're a lot more polished. 
You notice they get a lot of celebrities. 
You notice they do a lot of things that cost a lot of money. 
We don't do that. 
We don't even have underwriting. 
We basically broadcast from the soul. 
And that's been good enough since 1960. 
I hope it continues to be good enough through 2060. 
That April Fool's country format change. 
That was a gentle reminder. 
Maybe a firm reminder. 
But all the same, it is exactly what happens in the commercial radio market all the time. 
All the time. 
They have a period that the playlist changes a little bit. 
Then maybe it cuts over to some recordings for a while. 
And in comes a totally new format, new breaks, new ID, it is incredibly common. 
WBAI stands in complete opposition to that kind of format in being a free form, in being a part of your community. 
So please be a part of this and donate everything that you can because it's slick. 
It's all this heavily produced stuff. 
That is where the enormity of the budgets in the commercial realm, they just, they tower entities. 
And you have to change the way you think. 
You have to, you're like, how does this even work? 
How do you have a voice like that? 
Well, it's other voices that are listening and they contribute. 
They hear calls like this. 
They become WBAI buddies. 
And that's what keeps us going through whatever challenges we face, humorous and not. 
So, yeah, I urge people, if they can find that, give that a listen. 
But it's no joke. 
It's no joke. 
There are serious costs. 
There's costs everywhere. 
I know everybody's hearing about that, what their budgets and constraints are with regard to money. 
But I urge people to consider this. 
This is an important nonprofit. 
I found it. 
Sorry, I spent the last couple of minutes looking through about 10 years of shows. 
April 1st, 2009, that's when we did that show. 
So you can listen to that and hear the fake country station signing on to the air. 
Yeah, it was a crazy time. 
Okay, we're out of time. 
Please, one more time, give to WBAI.org, give number to WBAI.org. 
Become a BAI buddy or call 212-209-2950. 
And show your support to the radio station. 
It makes a huge difference. 
You will feel it, guaranteed. 
And hopefully, you will help keep the station around for a long time to come. 
You can write to us, OTH at 2600.com. 
And you can join us at Overtime on YouTube. 
Go to the link that's on 2600.com on the main page. 
Or just go to channel 2600 on YouTube and join us there. 
You can call us or just listen to more banter. 
We'll be back in two weeks. 


And welcome everybody to Overtime here on YouTube.
I think I made it.
Kyle, are you here?
Yeah, technically.
I can hear the fan from Robin Gila out there in Queens.
Yes.
Yes.
Our fan made it and so did we.
We have a fan too, you know.
We turned ours off.
We have an AC and it is keeping us sentient at the moment.
All right.
Well, you know, comfort is important, I guess.
Oh, we have so few listeners.
Why is that?
Did we drive everybody away with the constant pitching, asking people to support the radio station?
I hope not, because supporting the radio station is super important.
I think they're all signing up for their WBAI buddy program.
Oh, maybe.
Yeah, maybe they're all on the phone.
Maybe that's it.
They're picking out thank you gifts.
Well, all right.
Does anyone have anything they'd like to add to what they were saying on the radio station?
Just this has been such a ride to be part of, both as a listener and as a producer.
I could tell my story.
I was a listener to the station for long before I met you guys or anyone else involved with it.
I listened to Off the Hook, listened to lots of other shows.
My old analog boombox radio that I had, which was not very good, had its round analog tuning knob and antenna pointed just perfectly so it could get BAI in.
And I didn't often move either of those things because there was so much to listen to on BAI.
And I also, around the turn of the millennium, had a job running an arcade in a shopping mall out on Long Island, which no longer really exists.
Actually, I drove past it the other day, Rob.
It's called Adventureland, isn't it?
No, it was a bit smaller than that.
It was the arcade in the Sunrise Mall in Massapequa, which is a dead mall nowadays, completely dead.
But I ran the arcade.
I was the manager there.
And I had, you know, nothing else to do, sitting around, doing job stuff.
But also, I had a radio in there.
And every Wednesday, I and the rest of the arcade was listening to Off the Hook.
I think I called in once or twice from there.
But also, just people would wander in, you know, play video games like you do in an arcade.
And some of them would hang out and listen along to the show and ask me, what is this?
They're talking about this stuff on the radio?
This is hacker stuff.
Are they allowed to do that?
And it was a fun ride.
And, you know, eventually, when I did start getting involved with the conference and other stuff,
and eventually with this program, it was just, you know, it was such a fun ride.
And I met so many great people, you guys included, but, you know, others at the station,
people who worked with us, people who worked behind the scenes, in front of the scenes, on the mics,
comes to mind, Robert Knight, very sadly, no longer with us, was such a great guy to just hang out with and speak to in the lobby before a showtime.
And he was usually there.
I remember introducing Robert Knight to Julian Assange when Julian came to our radio show, and it was just what a conversation they had.
It was a kind of magical place.
When I was talking about, you know, how it was the most interesting room in the city, I wasn't kidding.
There were so many interesting people that wandered through just in the course of the day.
Absolutely. And just those friendships behind the scenes and on the mic have been some of the greatest of my life.
And I'm eternally grateful for the station as, you know, for all that it's held, for all the position that it's held in my personal life,
but also just as a source of radio, as a source of information, as a source for community and organization,
and all the great stuff that comes with a station that is like no other radio station, I think, that you can have, at least in this city.
Very true. Very true.
And imagine, you know, other places, too, where radio is just, you know, not every frequency is filled.
There's a lot of empty space.
I dare say you'd be hard-pressed to find any kind of non-commercial radio representation, simply because there aren't a lot of people.
And, you know, for that, I think the Internet is a godsend because you can simply tune to another station.
You know, we were listening to the radio station over at Burning Man in the last few days because they have a radio station.
I guess they got a frequency or something, 94.5.
And there, you know, we can hear the whole crisis unfolding right there on the radio but on the Internet.
And it's fascinating to listen to.
That's something that we didn't have the ability to do a couple of decades ago.
But now we can reach out and hear the more interesting voices or things that go along with monumental events.
And I hope people are doing that with WBAI.
I hope people are tuning in from all around the world.
If I could just drop in a note from YouTube, thank you to listener MK, who shares with us that,
E, you need to turn your mic up a little bit because you're harder to hear than any of the rest of us.
I don't know how it can go any louder.
If I go louder, I'll be distorting.
There's something with YouTube, I think, right?
Is it just me?
I will check that.
According to the levels I'm looking at, my levels are the same as everyone else's.
Boy, you know, sometimes radio is too much.
Was there an issue, Kyle?
Everything looks about normal.
It may be that in some cases it's a directional thing.
Sometimes we're reading things.
Sometimes we'll take a look at the configuration.
Talking directly into the microphone.
Can't get anyone direct in this.
I just checked in on what we sound like on YouTube, and you do sound, excuse me, you do sound a little lower in volume than the rest of us, but you are still hearable.
Well, then I'm going to push through the tape that Kyle put on the fader here.
You're blaming my tape?
And now I'm even louder.
Does that help?
Totally disrespect the tape.
No.
Somehow you got lower.
No, turn it down.
You're breaking.
No.
See, this is what happens.
This is what happens.
Who do we believe?
Who do we listen to?
I don't know.
We're doing the best we can.
Okay?
I'm sorry.
We're doing the best we can.
Any other listener feedback, literally?
How much was that microphone?
Wow.
So now that we're not on air, I will say that one thing that's been amazing is looking through the archive.
When, after we mentioned the April Fool's show, you know, Rob looked it up, and then I started looking, and it is amazing, the time capsule that we have, and remembering things that happened.
I came on the show.
I started on air after the shutdown.
We got the station back, and all of a sudden the show was back, and I was on it, and that was really the time that it happened.
And then seeing, you know, what was our last show before COVID, and I looked it up.
Do you guys remember?
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it depends what you mean by that, because I know I went in for a show where virtually nobody out.
Kyle and I were both there.
I don't think anybody else was there.
Right, but the last show with all of us turned out to be when we were talking with guests about, you remember the guys who put together the program where they put together every possible configuration of music so they could, like, the copyright protections around music and, like, Sam Smith and Tom Petty and all of that?
Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
So it was half about that and half about, wow, guys, this COVID thing sounds really scary.
They, like, canceled the St. Patrick's Day parade.
Yeah.
And what we figured out also recently is that the last time that we were all together in the studio and Jim was there, too.
And Kyle helped me put my hair up.
Yes.
Okay.
I tried to put my hair up with a pen.
Wow.
Which ended up being the last photo we had taken of Jim in the studio, and we shared that when he passed.
Yeah.
So it's this amazing, amazing time capsule, and it's been fantastic.
I'd also like to mention that our, oh, okay, we have more feedback, not feedback, but more listener commentary that says, to my ears, everyone is lower than Gila and Rob, and Gila is slightly lower than Rob, but louder than everyone else.
Okay, well, I can fix that.
They are a little bit hot.
All right.
Now try talking, Gila.
How am I doing now?
You're much lower.
Is that what people want?
But it's probably even.
No, she's super low now.
Well, it is low, but I would say it's about being even.
You want every single mic to be somewhere in the ballpark of the next one so that it's balanced.
I have them at what we call unity.
That's what I'm told is best.
Oh, we're using lingo.
We're using lingo now.
We're going to get in the work.
Or jargon.
Can I just ask, people giving feedback, is this a little bit more?
Does this apply to the radio part of the show as well, or is it just when we're on YouTube?
That's very important.
Because if it's different, then we know where to look.
But if this is how we sound throughout the radio show as well, then it's on our end.
And also, the archive.
How does it sound on the archive?
You people listening in the future to the archive, let us know.
I will confess, in between shows, I move them down.
I put everything down.
Oh, that's nice.
Thank you for that.
That just makes my job a little harder.
I know.
I like a challenge.
Thank you very much.
Rob, you have your hand up.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
Now we're being told on YouTube that Gila is harder to hear.
Because I turned her down because someone said she was too loud.
But also, Eugene tells us it's just happening on YouTube, which I...
Just happening on YouTube, then it's YouTube's problem.
Well, I should point out that our signal to the station after the station gets us from Skype
and everything else from Lucy and all the stuff we're using, it then goes through a further
compressor before it goes on the air, like everything that gets put out on the air.
Yeah, it will be changed from the virtual studio from one to the other.
Another magic of radio.
Well, we don't benefit from the expertise of WBAI.
No.
We've done the best we can for...
We're on the goddamn internet.
...for the internet.
But the internet is fussy in ways that...
Do you see how the internet gets people aggravated?
The professionalism of a radio station like WBAI is excelling.
Uh-huh.
Yeah, I'm angry.
Are you angry?
I'm livid.
And not only am I livid, I'm sweating because it's 95 degrees in here.
So yeah, I'm fit to be tied right now.
I have a hooded sweatshirt just to be more angry.
I should also point out we don't have someone named Lucy running around helping us.
That's actually software that Rob referred to just now.
Thinking that everybody's going to know what he's talking about.
You might maybe want to explain who Lucy is?
Our pal Lucy, who never says a thing, but works very hard.
No, we're being told this is just on YouTube.
But, you know, this does lead into something else that's great about WBAI.
You were mentioning before how it offers a chance for voices from folks who might not otherwise get on the radio in a strictly commercial sphere.
Obviously, the station has been putting us on the air, this program, for all this time.
But also just so many voices from the community, voices from underrepresented communities, black, indigenous, people of color, the LGBTQ plus community, voices that would not have gotten on the air on a commercial station, and people who would have not gotten on the air on a commercial station.
I mean, I started learning audio and broadcast engineering through my involvement with the station.
I went on to do that for work.
And, you know, I do it for this program, and I also do it other places.
And it's a great pleasure for me to be able to develop in that skill without having to have gone to school for it.
Instead, I just got thrown into the deep end at a radio station that allows people to grow and develop and succeed and share, basically, these voices, which would not be presented, I think, any other way over the broadcast airwaves in this city.
And so, yeah, I will once again tell people to go to give2wbai.org or call 1-212-209-2950 and become a BAI buddy.
They have to be the only show that continues pitching even after they're off the air.
That's incredible.
Wow.
And BAI is not going to know we're doing this because they're not listening to us right now.
Oh, that might not be true.
There are people at BAI that enjoy listening to us.
What, do you think?
They're listening to this show on the internet rather than the station that they are currently at.
They can time shift.
Yeah, maybe they catch up somehow.
All right, all right.
It's possible, I guess.
It's not a requirement.
I don't advise it, though.
It's not a requirement.
Yeah, they have important things to do.
Exactly, yeah.
And also, any time of the day, you can donate and choose Off the Hook as your favorite show,
and the station will get that message.
That's true.
That's true.
We want to have a lot of people do that.
But, you know, Rob, what you were saying about representation and all that, you know,
I've seen society change so much over the past decade or two, and I think BAI was in the
lead because we've been providing voices for the underrepresented for so long, and now we're
starting to see recognition of that in mainstream, not nearly enough, but definitely more than
it was.
And I think, you know, if you listen to BAI, you might be listening to the future.
You might be listening to how things are represented in days to come, how people are voicing their
opinions and telling their stories.
I think we're hearing that more in various places.
Oh, that is so incredibly true, especially retrospectively with some of the archives that
we've been referencing.
But going forward, there's so many things that I've heard here on this first on Off the Hook,
but WBAI and on the radio in general that you couldn't get information about in ordinary
outlets that you'd pay money for, like a newspaper or a traditional, like a cable or television
satellite, that kind of stuff.
Even satellite radio, I guess, emerges as a place where people spend a lot of time consuming
information.
But it is totally unique in that way.
So I don't know, I lost the train of thought, but I just was so, I don't know, so captivated
by that sound and, I don't know, the accessibility of it.
Should we give out the phone number?
I guess we should.
Add another element to the magic here, too.
I was doing that.
I have the phone here.
It's on, but no calls have been in place.
That's because we haven't given out the phone number.
And sometimes people wait until the phone number is given out before calling, unlike
some other people that don't.
All right.
Yeah.
If someone calls, we'll be able to pick up.
The phone number is 802-321, right?
Am I correct?
Okay.
I'm sorry.
I think the heat's finally getting to us.
The heat is getting to me.
802-321-4225.
802-321-HACK is our phone number.
You can call us with your opinions, voice, anything you have to say, and we'll listen for a little
while anyway before we do something else.
I was saying something about satellite, and it just totally...
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Rob, are you there?
How's that air conditioning?
Oh, it's quite nice, actually.
That's wonderful to hear.
This room doesn't actually have air conditioning.
It has a fan that pumps in the air conditioning, but the fan is very loud.
That's why the fan is off right now, and that's why the room is very hot.
Did I mention my respect for audio as a medium and my enthusiasm for putting out the best
sound we can over the air?
That is humanly possible.
No, you didn't.
802-321-4225 is our phone number, and we're just going to wait a little while for a phone
call.
If we don't get a phone call, we're going to just exchange pleasantries and call it a night
and dump water over our heads or something.
When is this going to stop, by the way?
When is this heat going away?
I understand summer is over, Labor Day, you know, all that.
The understanding is that's when summer ends, so what the hell?
I mean, my question is, if it's still 90 degrees, does this mean we're still allowed to wear white
shoes after Labor Day?
Dear Lord, I think it's going to break this weekend.
Ish.
Ish.
I'm looking forward to Hurricane Lee.
I heard that Lee is forming in the Atlantic, and I looked at the path, and it looks like
something that could actually make a turn and hit us dead on.
And you might say, Emmanuel, why are you wishing for a hurricane?
I don't know.
I'd just like to spice it up a bit.
You know, I don't want anybody to get hurt.
I don't want anybody to lose their homes or anything like that.
But I do like a good storm whipping around, you know, with rain and all kinds of school
closures and things like that.
So, you know, just a little bit of variety in life.
What's wrong with that?
Batten down the hatches and all, and I'm sure we'll get through it.
But yeah, Hurricane Lee.
That might be something we're talking about in two weeks when we're on next.
Because we'll probably, it'll be the aftermath of it then.
Because if it hits us, it'll be between now and then.
Oh, I was talking about the future, man.
Oh, you're trying to remember.
Yeah, that's what it was.
Wow.
Wow.
Okay, Tommy Chong, what do you got to say to us?
Oh, wow.
All right, we don't have a call, so I guess I can finish before I forget again.
Yeah, the ringing of the bell is going to throw you off for sure.
I'll totally get lost.
And we lost him again.
Okay.
What were we doing?
No, no, that's all right.
Kyle just basically drifts in and out.
And next time he's in sync with us.
Oh, yeah, you hear ideas that you don't hear on other entities.
That's what it is.
We did hear that idea, though, because we mentioned that a few times.
But yeah, that's true.
Aguila, it looks like you have something.
I certainly did.
Yes.
So while the listenership, viewership, the number of people who are joining us live on YouTube
right now, has grown exponentially since the top of the hour, everybody's a little quiet
tonight.
However, Johnny Fusion does very politely point out that, to look on the bright side,
this is going to be the coldest year going forward.
So thanks for that bright thought, Johnny Fusion.
How is this going to be the coldest year going forward?
It's been the warmest year on record.
But it's going to continue getting warmer.
So how does that make it the coldest year on record?
It's like it's going to get worse.
You just said this makes it the coldest year.
Maybe I'm not understanding.
No, just like starting now, this is going to be the coldest year going forward, because
it's going to be warmer every year from now.
And in 30 years, we're going to look back and think, gosh, remember 2023 when it was only
90?
Right.
Next year is going to be utter hell.
So the fact that we're just in junior hell right now means that it's not so bad.
I like that way of thinking.
Yeah, you could pretty much get through anything that way.
Wow.
That could be like me saying, OK, Trump is the president, but, you know, eventually we're
going to get somebody even worse.
So this isn't so bad.
You know what?
It doesn't work.
It doesn't work for me.
No.
So no one ever said to you, if you kiss a toad first thing in the morning, your day
can only get better.
You live a strange life.
I know.
Definitely, definitely had not had that thought crossed my mind.
No, I'm giving out that New York City phone number.
802-321-4225.
802-321-HACK is our phone number.
If anyone out there has anything they'd like to share with us, please call now, because
we're rapidly losing patience with the oxygen situation here.
Tell us, boast about becoming a buddy, a WBAI buddy.
We want to hear about your experience.
Or maybe they're all ashamed that they didn't become a BAI buddy.
How about this?
Become a BAI buddy, then call us, filled with pride.
And yes, light $15.
But you know what?
You won't feel that, I don't think.
I really don't.
Because like I said, that's two cups of coffee at Starbucks.
Or you could tell us your BAI story.
If you're a listener to BAI, tell us what grabbed you, what pulled you into BAI, what
grabbed your interest, what keeps you coming back.
Or why you hate BAI and why you will never pledge a penny to that rotten place.
You know, we want to hear that story too.
Either way, I mean, that's fine.
But it's what it takes.
I mean, you have a lot of different sorts of models changing around different media organizations.
They're changing those more subscriber-based things or testing out new ways to attract people.
And it's no different.
So we try to be innovative, try to move with the times a little bit.
I think we can still take...
Does the SMS system still work?
I mean, there's so much we've tried over the years, but it's really, really important
to support this model because it's a different way than all the stuff that is ad-based.
And I don't know.
I've been subscribing to more things that I'm interested in so that they stay around.
And I think that is the subtext with our fundraising episode.
You know, and that's a good point because, like, we're now in a time in sort of the media
environment in which people are going back to having to subscribe to each and every little
thing separately.
You've got your different streaming services.
So many independent artists out there are using things like Patreon or other crowdfunded
ongoing support platforms to help them develop into some sort of a continuing income stream.
And here we are.
We've been keeping the station on the air for 63 years.
Not we specifically.
We haven't been here that long.
But BAI has been keeping itself on the air for 63 years with just asking for help.
And so we continue to do that.
And if we can, can we continue to do that and have it work?
We really hope so.
We would like it to work.
And you can make that happen.
That's true.
That's true.
But we're not on BAI now.
We're on the Internet.
We're on YouTube.
And YouTube doesn't need your donations.
Don't send them money.
They're bastards.
No, they are bastards.
I'm sorry.
But, you know, all the advertising on YouTube really gets me.
You know, the ultimate is you have live broadcasts now where they break things up with ads.
Like, you know, they have meditation live, you know, or eight-hour videos where, you know,
you're supposed to be calmed down, you know, get nice and comfortable and buy this.
Yeah, that's what happens.
How do you feel, you know?
That is what Google is doing.
They've broken YouTube completely.
I'm sorry, Kyle.
I blasted you out of your headphones just now.
It's a dynamic microphone.
I was impressed by the sound.
I'm really sorry about that.
Yeah.
Literally fell over.
It's funny because I was looking.
I have a compressor.
I just don't know how to hook it up.
Anybody else who's hurt by my outburst, please write us.
What do you say if I just store this compressor that I haven't hooked up right over your, on that shelf?
Are you threatening violence?
Is that what's going on here?
Yeah, the one with the loose screw right over.
All right.
We do have a call.
I've got a laptop, and I'm not afraid to use it.
Do we have a call?
Are they on?
Are they connected?
Yeah.
Okay, because you're walking out of the room.
All right.
Let's see.
Good evening.
You are on off the hook of time.
Go ahead.
Hi, Emmanuel.
This is Johnny Hughes, and I felt bad that no one was calling, so I called.
Well, we appreciate your pity, and it's good to hear your voice.
Yeah.
I ended up in the hospital this week.
Oh, no.
So I'm calling from the hospital room.
Oh, that's terrible.
Or at least you're in a place where you can, you know, get fixed or whatnot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I just, I got, I got, I got a little infection in my blood, and so.
Okay.
Okay.
I've been on IV antibiotics for a few days.
Okay.
Well, that'll help.
Yeah, and I'm getting my port removed tomorrow.
I have a port in my chest where I used to get medications when I was a lot sicker.
You call it a port?
I don't need it anymore.
It's called a port?
Port.
Yeah.
Like a USB port?
Well, it's more like an IV.
Okay.
All right.
Well, the idea is pretty much the same.
Wow.
It's a little piece of cybernetic.
Yeah.
You're like a cyborg.
That's cool.
It's a little, little technological enhancement because when I was sick and the progression
of my illness, like it got harder and harder to start IVs.
And so we got this, so it would be really easy to start IVs because it's just this little
piece of surgical plastic under my skin with a tube that goes to my heart and just poke a
cuber needle through a membrane and I'm hooked up.
Uh-huh.
Easy peasy.
Wow.
What they've done in technology and health these days is simply incredible.
It really is.
Yeah, but it's gotten infected and so it needs to come out tomorrow.
Uh-huh.
Well, the important thing is that you were able to recognize a problem and you went to
the right place and you're getting it dealt with.
Indeed.
Indeed.
But, you know, there's a lot of hacking opportunities in the hospital if I was a little more dangerous
like in my youth.
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh.
Because there's so much tech around.
You know, they leave a computer in my room that the nurses and the nurse's assistants use.
But I haven't shoulder surfed to catch a password or anything.
Yeah, and, you know, I'm not sure what you would do if you did catch a password because
you're going to hack your own care.
It's not a good idea, places like that.
You know, it's a good idea to notice the security issues and maybe tell the right people this
isn't a good idea.
Don't do that.
But as far as messing around with things, that's one place you definitely don't want
to be doing that.
Right.
Because, like, other stuff is, you know, because there's so much tech in the room because
everything is tech now.
Like, a little machine that reads my oxygen levels and temperature and blood pressure and
the IV pump, and they're all computerized.
So there's, I mean, and I've talked to nurses.
And some nurses have trouble with the tech portion of the job.
Like, they just want to do, you know, help patients, right?
But to be a nurse today, you need to have all this skill in tech.
True.
True.
Okay, I guess we've all run out of things to say, then.
Is somebody...
Do you mean, like, they're taking on too much?
They're...
Well, it's just some, like, after my transplant, I had this nerve block, right?
And it had this little computer that they had to register the medicine, and it would disperse
it at a certain rate, and stuff like that.
You actually had to program this thing, and the nurses were the ones doing the program.
And it took two of them because it had opiates, so they had to co-sign.
And it was so interesting because one would coach the other, or they'd muddle through and
figure it out themselves, because it was fairly complicated.
And, you know, just like hacking, some people have an aptitude, and some people just are
non-technical.
And a lot of these nurses, they've been nurses for a long time, and the tech marches on, and
they never had this in nursing school, and they have to learn on the job.
Yeah, that's a great point, because ongoing training is something that is so neglected
in so many companies and businesses and firms all over the place.
But, you know, being prepared on one level, and then new products, new things come through
that are really flashy, or they're absorbed and become standard in different institutions
that are trying to move ahead and benefit their patients, and they sort of leave no room for
people that are on the clock to really absorb what it actually means to use that product.
Yeah, I mean, related, I used to date this teacher, like it was her first year teaching high
school, and she would end up in tears with her technical difficulties, because, like, she was
a brilliant teacher, was a great writer, but computers just stymied her.
It was, it was like 2015 before she got a smartphone.
Like, she resisted it for so long, and then, because she didn't know anything about smartphones,
she got a Windows phone.
And, you know, it had no apps, and so, and then she got, I forget what, either an iPhone
or an Android, you know, but if she would volunteer at these places, and they, and they would say,
oh, you need this app on your phone, and she's like, I do not have a phone.
And then she showed up once I'm, I have this phone, and they're like, that's the wrong kind
of phone.
But the, but she would have to do grading, and attendance, and everything on using computer
programs.
And it just stymied her, and I had to, even though I wasn't familiar with the specific
software, I had to coach her through using tech in the classroom.
It's very interesting.
I'm, I'm thinking of, like, I know computers, I'm comfortable with, you know, computers,
smartphones, internet stuff, whatever, but, like, I don't know much about cars.
And if I applied for a job where I was taking care of people, and, you know, doing medical
stuff that I had training for, but in the middle of that job, one day they showed up
and said, oh, and by the way, you have to know how to put a car up on a lift and change
the oil, I would be pretty stymied, too.
And, yeah, the way, the way technology has become such a part of our lives, and also a
part of our medical care, in, in cases like yours, and in cases where people have implanted
devices that themselves have, like, some kind of smart functionality.
We've had, we've had people come to the Hope Conference and give talks on, on things like
this and medical technology and the security issues inherent in even having things like
this, and how much that's not even considered by, like, so many of the people who depend
on them or who use them in their work or in their lives.
And so, you know, you, you having a port that needs maintenance, you know, port security
is very important. Any IT person will tell you that. And, uh, you don't want to, you
don't want to end up leaving a port open that, uh, that is, uh, that will lead to some sort
of vulnerability. But, uh, we're glad that you're, that you're there and that you're able
to get hold of the, the care you need to take care of this for you.
Yeah, I mean, and I was doing so well last week when I called, you know, and I wasn't doing
well, but then, but it just took one little, like being around one person who had a cold
and it just snowballed.
Isn't that always the way it is?
My immune system is still suppressed.
Yeah.
But, you know, good that you're getting what you need to get taken care of, taken care of,
and can continue, I don't know, kicking ass and taking names. Is that fair to say?
Yeah.
Yeah, I'll be, I'll be recovered in no time. It's a, it's a very minor surgery. It's a very
minor surgery to have it installed, you know, implanted, I guess. But, um, so I don't, I
don't expect surgery will take long and, uh, a couple days of more IV antibiotics and be
right as rain.
Very cool. Uh, do you think, uh, in two weeks, two weeks you should be okay, right?
Yeah. Are you off next week?
We're off next week. Otherwise we'd say call next week. Uh, but in two weeks call us and,
uh, and I'm sure, uh, it'll be, it'll be much better.
Yeah. I missed, I missed the 2600 meeting this past Friday because I was too sick and I ended
up in the ER. Uh-huh. I really wanted to go, but it wasn't in the car. So maybe next month.
Yeah. Fortunately, we have them, we have them every month. Yeah. It's San Francisco, the one
that you would go to?
Yeah.
Cool.
It's right. It's right off of BART stop. That's really easy to get to because I live
right near BART, near BART station. I don't even have to change trains or anything. I take
it, I take the yellow line all the way to Embarcadero and then walk a couple blocks.
Yeah. Mass transit is amazing. I wish there were more of it.
I agree, but you know, Henry Ford. Okay. But you know what? Henry Ford has been dead a
long time. It's about time we moved on. I agree, but I mean, our country is, is engineered
around automobiles. That's, that's the technology that we literally engineered our cities and
lands and transport systems around. And, um, like I used to live in Amsterdam. That's not
a car city. It's, it's car hostel.
That's a, that's a bike city. Yeah.
Yeah. If you want to get anywhere, you go on a bike.
Right. And, uh, there's, there's, uh, definitely, uh, moves in New York to, uh, to do more of
that, you know, to have the congestion charge like they have in London. This is something
you'll see more of, uh, people will complain of course, but, um, Hey, you know what? We're
complaining right now. We're complaining about air pollution. We're complaining about, uh,
hazardous, um, uh, ways of getting around the city for pedestrians and bicyclists. It's, it's
time that, uh, our complaints are heard and that the, um, the planet is, uh, is, is, is
brought into a more healthy place.
Yeah. It's basically the world against the capitalists. I mean, do they want to continue
burning fossil fuels because they have all this money invested in fossil fuels or are we
going to take our planet back? I mean, this is a global problem that capitalism is, that
created and is continuing. Very true. Very true. All right. Listen, you, uh, you become
healthy, healthier and, um, and, and be observant in the hospital there and, and, you know, tell
us about the technology without, uh, without messing with the technology. Right. All
right. It was good talking to you. All right. You too. Get well. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
Wow. Sorry, guys, I had to turn you off because your fan was so damn loud. Sorry about that.
But, uh, yeah, I think, I think, uh, maybe we can turn it off for a little bit. Or you
can just mute yourselves when you're not talking. That would work. We will, we will get better
about that. Have a mute button. So yeah. Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. I turned you off too, Kyle.
What is with everybody? I'm turning everybody off. What am I? I'm turning myself off. I'm trying
to participate. The phone is ringing. Is anybody going to pick that up? I didn't abuse
my microphone. Yeah, it's ringing. You want me to pick it up? No, I want you to rip it
off the wall. No, this is off the hook. All right. Good evening. You're on off the hook
overtime. Go ahead. I like to establish my position first and just say cactus, cactus, cactus.
But I've been kind of going insane with the modern world of technology as it once was, whereas
it is now. I, it very, you know, the, the, the usual cliche is very Orwellian and what
have you. And it's remarkable how you own nothing yet. All the devices you own supposedly
all just spawn you nonstop. And it's more than just your phone, which is a terrifying
thing. And I'm, I, I, like the last advanced thing I did was build a red box. So it's been
a minute since I've been in the game as it were. Red boxes. Oh, that brings back memories.
Red boxes, blue boxes. Oh, you know, the good stuff. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. So it's been a while
since I've been relevant. And I just, I don't understand how any of this became what it is.
And it's kind of maddening when a grand scale. Yeah, I hear that. And the fact that if you
see it. No, I, I, I hear what you're saying. It's, uh, it's definitely maddening.
Yeah. I just, it'd be kind of nice to own the stuff that I, you know, purchase, but you
don't anymore. It's, it's all rented. Everything is a lease. It's like, you're agreeing to, uh,
you know, the, the, the software which changes, or you have to pay a monthly fee. It's, it's,
it's insane. And people have been warning about this for quite some time. And we seem to be in
the, in the, in the place now where it becomes a reality and it's really hard to actually buy
physical media or physical hardware, even sometimes.
Well, like physical media is this physical media exists in the fact that it's physical,
but even when you like, like this video games, for example, cool, you can buy a video game
all you want on this, but there's only two gigs of information on the disc for 98 games.
Yeah. Yeah. So you need the internet. You need the internet. Well, you know, what I like to
do is tell people I don't have internet access. You know, I live in a place where I have no
access whatsoever. What do I do? How do you help me? And either they, they have to admit
that it's completely useless. They're, their product is completely useless without a net
connection, or there's some other alternative.
Oh, absolutely. I've been like, so one of the things that I, because I only recently,
within the last few years, fell into the windows 10 hell hole as it were.
Yes. And I'm thinking it screaming for windows seven, windows seven, like fine. I'm forced to
update this. You know, I understand exactly what you're saying because windows seven did not
constantly reboot like windows 10 does. Is that, is that one of your complaints?
Oh no, actually not at all. Like I, I, I don't care about the rebooting doesn't happen very often,
but what drives me insane is that window, I have devices that I need various drivers for.
And for whatever reason, windows is not happy with that. Oh, well, your drivers are six years
out of date. I'm going to update them no matter what you tell me to do. I have gone over windows 10,
at least six or seven times to try and turn off auto updates. And you can't turn off the auto
update no matter how much you try. I know. I know that's part of the complaint. I was, I was
basically, yeah, that they, they auto update. They know better than you. You're just a consumer.
It's like, Hey, yeah, that, that hardware you bought, even though like it's a capture card.
And unfortunately for me, I capture retro consoles, which requires a 240 P signal and 240 P is out of
the norm. It's not, it's not, it's not crucial as it were. And the capture card I have, even though
it can capture a 240 P signal, it only does it with a certain driver version, but windows will force
the latest driver version every single time, no matter what I do. And that'll break something else.
And, uh, it just, it never ends. You know, I, I have a lot of respect for people who continue to run
older systems. If they're able to keep them running themselves, they shouldn't be forced
into upgrades. They don't want or need. Uh, and, uh, I think we need to become less disposable as far as
always throwing out our, our, our phone when a new version comes out and getting something new.
Sometimes something old is better. You know, sometimes, sometimes it suits you better
to constantly be told you have to do this. You have to do that new software. Okay. The new software
only runs on new hardware and now you need new hardware with that new hardware. Hey,
there's even newer software. It just, you're, you're caught in this spiral of planned obsolescence.
I, I am referred to as a dinosaur. I still have a CRT. I, I believe in the glory of the
four or three resolution. I have a modern TV and I hate it with every ounce of my brain.
Uh-huh. Did you, did you miss analog TV signals as well? Cause I do.
Oh, very much so. Very much so. Uh-huh.
It, I,
Wow. Well, you, you, you, you have, you're in the right place because we, we all understand what you're
saying.
So I have all this quote unquote ancient technology. I'm like, yeah, cool. This TV may be 25 years old,
but this TV will outlive me and outlive you.
That's right. That's right.
Well, my modern TV, I've had it taken apart two or three times to fix minor issues and pop up. I'm
like, I, I paid $500 for this thing and I'm repairing it every other year. What the hell?
I, I have an old TV. You know, the TV I'm talking about, Kyle, it's, it's, it's a, you know,
small TV. Uh, my grandmother used to have it in 1986, I think is where it's from, or maybe,
maybe the early eighties, even it still works to this day. The only problem is there's no TV
stations anymore. It outlived TV, TV set outlived analog TV. So it's, it's kind of useless, but it
still works. Oh yeah. I have a small portable handheld TVs, you know, back in the day when I was
the greatest thing in the world. And I, I still think they're relatively cool. And if I want to,
I can jerry rig my Nintendo, my original NES. So it'll broadcast and I could pick that up on the
little handheld TV. Wow. Okay. That's cool. That's very cool. Whatever you do, don't throw out any of
this stuff because it's all pretty awesome to have. Oh yeah. And there's more and more like, uh,
support for repairing stuff. I think the, you're absolutely right. Like the guilt is due,
I think on some of the, uh, providers of the software and hardware because they're building
in the costs that are essentially their problems that they're making you pay for them over the
lifetimes of the lifetime of the product. I know exactly what you're talking about with flat screens,
like power supplies, things go and there's no parts to repair it. Um, they'll just consider it,
disposable. It's not worth the time because it's, uh, the life cycle is so short. So, uh, doing like,
um, board level repairs is just unheard of. Everyone thinks you're insane.
And that's the thing, you know, I, I, I saw a forum recently where somebody was complaining
about this very thing where they wanted to hold on to windows seven, not be forced to upgrade to
windows 10. And they were asking a particular question as to how they could make something else
work without being forced to do that. Did they get any help? No, they got universally shamed.
Why do you want to run windows seven? Don't you know that by running windows seven, you're going
to be opening yourself up to all kinds of security holes. And nobody took their request seriously.
Nobody was helpful. They just were shaming. And the irony is that in many cases, an older operating
system is more secure than something brand new that everybody's using. And that the, um, uh,
the security holes have not all been found yet. That might be a problem, but you know what?
Let the person make the decision for themselves.
That, that, that's a very big issue. I, because I, I am massive on the right to repair.
I think it's asinine and insulting that I'll spend $2,000 on a phone. I'd be like, Oh, the screen
cracked. It looks like I got to spend another $2,000 instead of, you know, 50 bucks for a new
screen.
Right. Right. Your phone costs $2,000. Wow. That must be a good phone.
Oh God. No, no. I, this phone, the phone I'm talking to, it's like 120 bucks I think I spent.
Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
I am relatively broke.
Well, you know, we still, we still use rotary dial phones literally to talk to people sometimes
because they sound good. You know, they're from the 1950s, but they really sound good.
Hey, it's a pair of twisted copper geese through our life.
That's true. Uh, Rob, you got something? Go ahead.
Yeah. Talking about those old TVs, those old CRT TVs, um, Johnny Fusion points out in the
YouTube chat that, uh, people still use them for retro gaming, um, for using those old
Nintendos and other things because you can hook them up to an LCD flat panel, but there
are subtle differences. Not only does everything look different, um, but, uh, because the things
were meant, the graphics were created to look their best on a CRT television, but, uh, there
are timing issues and things like competitive gaming, the game, uh, Smash Brothers in particular,
like it makes a huge difference if, if you're on a genuine TV of the time versus, uh, versus
the modern equivalent. Um, but, uh, also like those things are so coveted because CRTs, no
one's making those picture tubes anymore. There's a finite amount in the world and, uh, you
know, more blowout every day. So yes, if you've got an old TV somewhere, don't get rid of it
because if it works, there is, uh, you know, there are things you can do with it, or there
is probably someone who would very much like to buy it from you somewhere. Um, and, uh,
yeah, the, uh, the, and the fact that, uh, talking about the magic of radio again, you
know, you could still turn on a radio from 1960 that was receiving the original WBAI signal
from when it first went on the air and it will still tune us in today.
Yeah. But there are people who want to change that. They want to, you know, change, uh,
the radio frequencies or there's a move to get rid of AM radio now, you know, not have
it in cars, you know, why? Because electric cars interfere with the radio. Well, you know,
that means you haven't quite developed electric cars to the point where they're compatible
with things that we need. AM radio being one of them.
It's remarkable how quick everybody is. I'll throw it all, throw it all out. I'm like,
stop, hold on. I have stuff from the eighties that still works better than most, you know,
things built today. And all I'm going to do is going to go in and replace a few capacitors and
it's just like brand new. That's right. That's right. And I, I, I don't understand why or when
everybody decided to let's just throw away by new because my, my living basically comes
from getting broken game consoles, taking the two or three hours to get them off running
again and selling them.
Wow. Okay. There's a demand for that.
And everybody's like, oh, you know, this PS2 doesn't work. And I'm like, I buy it off
you for 10 bucks. And then, you know, $15 and two hours later running just like now.
Uh huh. And then you're able to sell it, but yeah, yeah. But even, even during the days
of the PS2 when it was new, Sony was very much, if you repair this, we're going to slap
you in the mouth. Cause how dare you? Cause every company now really enjoys ignoring these
magnets and mall sack for whatever reason, I guess if you have more money than God, what
would the laws matter to you? Right.
That's how they act. It's yeah. I mean, oh, cool. You find them $105 million. That's nice.
They made 22 billion. I don't think they noticed.
No, definitely not. Wow. Okay. Well, um, this has been, uh, illuminating anything else before
we go?
Uh, yeah. Maintain your VHS case. Keep your DVDs nice and clean.
Good, good advice. I have a huge VHS collection. I've, I've digitized it so I can, I can look
at it, but I I'm keeping the tapes. Perfect. All right. Thanks for your call. Hi, take care.
What a great call. Wow. That was a, that that's pretty awesome. And, and speaks to a lot that
we talk about in, in very elegant way.
Yeah. Uh, so many things that, uh, I, I could just delve into it. It's, uh, just a conversation,
but it's an important one on so many levels. So I'm, I'm, I'm happy to hear about what,
what that caller was, uh, was, uh, moved by and, and, and what, what gets them excited.
You're made to feel like you're crazy, you know, like you just don't get it. If you want
to hold onto something that's old or, or keep doing things, you know, the way, uh, you've
always done them. Sure. Be open to, to new things, but don't throw out the old things.
You know, maybe you're using a word processor that's 20 years old, you know, maybe it works
better for you. Maybe you're comfortable with it. Maybe it's compatible with all the files
you've made and something else wouldn't be. So, uh, let's support that person instead of
shaming them into, uh, moving into something they're not that comfortable with.
I, I think it's especially, um, sinister when you're putting the blame on entities.
You have no idea how they operate. You don't know what kinds of things that machine is
responsible for. And because of the design life cycle of the software, they, they want
people to, they want to kind of, uh, force this on, on the consumer that it may be their
whole business that gets ruined or, or they have to needlessly or in an unexpected way,
redo an entire process or, um, and, and hope that, you know, everything works out as far as,
uh, sales or their, their just ability to adapt. Uh, that, that is a terrible cost and it's part,
all part of the conversation, uh, whether you're, whatever, um, avenue we take. And I mean,
there are benefits, like there are not benefits, but just weird, um, things that we,
we take for granted, like, yeah, there's a hundred dollar phones. I have a hundred dollar
phone. I never use. I just got, I mean, the, I think a lot of people, um, also see the, like
the economies that like the scale and the way, um, that produces just, uh, an abundance of stuff.
But here in, we're talking about stuff that we can't repair. We can't truly own because it's
locked down by like, uh, intellectual property and all sorts of licenses yet. We're going to trust
all of our data, all of our, we're going to put all of our communications, everything about our
lives. Uh, and, and, um, if we want it like a certified repair, it's going to cost double what
we paid for in the first place and you can't live without it. You know, I mean, give up. That's the
deal that, that, that we're supposed to love. It feels like a lot of people have given up and that
they're just basically succumbing to, uh, you know, this, uh, this need to always have the
latest. And if you don't have the latest, then there's something wrong with you and you're
vulnerable and, uh, you have to keep up and throw out the old stuff. And, uh, yeah, it's,
it's insecurity and I don't think it's, uh, it's, it's very wise.
No, it really damages people's regular operations, their regular lives. And so much that they originally,
we're counting on being there for them when, when they put their trust in whatever mega
company or, uh, entity there that is, you know, taking control over their books and, and,
and all of the sort of ways they interact, interact with technology. We got to keep talking
about it. So please update us, share what you see out there.
Rob Gila, anything else? I think we're going to close it up in a bit because we're about to
hit a hundred degrees in here. Yeah, we, we turned off our fan and, uh, we turned off
our AC rather, and, uh, it's rapidly rising in here too. So I think, uh, this would be
a good note to end it all on right to repair is important. Um, you know, old stuff isn't
bad just because it's old and, uh, we can keep tinkering with the things we want to tinker
with and no one should be able to tell us we can't.
That's right. And question the, uh, the kinds of the ways you're, you're being encouraged
to use, uh, products and so forth and, uh, beware the conspicuous consumption because
that's, uh, that's driving a lot of these, these entities as well.
So good words to end on right to us. OTH at 2600.com. If you forgot to become a BAI buddy,
despite our many pleas, you still can do so give to WBAI.org give the number to WBAI.org
and, um, become a BAI buddy, $15 a month or more. And, uh, you'll be doing amazing things
for a radio station that is truly unique and so valuable. We will see you again in two weeks
until then stay cool. And, um, let us know if you, uh, see any interesting technology or,
um, abuses of privacy or the other various things we, we always are interested in and,
uh, use the telephone a little more. Yeah. Call somebody. Yeah. Give a call. I mean,
you can call somebody at random, I guess, but, uh, call somebody, you know, they'll be surprised,
but maybe you'll have a conversation. Who knows? That's what phones are for. All right. Good night,
everyone.