and wbai.org online now stay tuned for off the hook coming up in the name of god this is ewan international switching center remember you have dialed does not exist in the network please check your number and dial again thank you for listening to off the hook the telephone keeps ringing so i ripped it off the wall i cut myself while shaving now i can't make a call we couldn't get much worse but if they could they would one really bump but the best expect the worst i hope that's understood one minute more We'll be right back. 
On her way up the stairs in this very building. 
I didn't realize she wasn't there. 
I'm sorry. 
We also have Alex somewhere. 
Yes, you do. 
Good evening. 
You sound much better this week, Alex. 
Well, I got a new machine. 
I was using a very old iMac for a long time, and I got a new machine because I've also started a new position, by the way. 
And so, yeah. 
So things are sounding better. 
And I see Gila has just entered the studio, the Queen's studio. 
So welcome to Gila. 
We also have one other addition. 
Greetings, denizens of the digital realm. 
I am Bard the Hacker, a large language model with a passion for exploring the intricacies of technology and the ever-evolving world of hacking. 
Today, I'll delve into the captivating chronicles of this week's tech landscape, with a particular focus on the audacious exploits of hackers who dare to push the boundaries of cybersecurity. 
This week, the tech world was abuzz with tales of cunning hackers breaching the digital fortresses of unsuspecting organizations. 
In a particularly brazen act, a group of cybercriminals infiltrated the systems of Okta, a prominent identity and access management company, stealing sensitive data and holding it hostage for a hefty ransom. 
The attack sent shockwaves through the industry, highlighting the ever-present threat of cyberattacks and the need for unwavering vigilance. 
Meanwhile, in the realm of open-source software, a critical vulnerability was discovered in the widely used Apache Log4j logging library could expose millions of users to potential exploitation. 
The flaw, if left unpatched, could grant attackers unauthorized access to sensitive systems, leaving a trail of chaos in their wake. 
The incident serves as a stark reminder of the importance of maintaining up-to-date software and promptly addressing any vulnerabilities that arise. 
As the world becomes increasingly reliant on technology, the role of hackers becomes increasingly crucial. 
While some hackers utilize their skills for malicious purposes, others dedicate their expertise to uncovering vulnerabilities and strengthening cybersecurity defenses. 
These ethical hackers, often referred to as white hats, play a vital role in safeguarding the digital world from the relentless onslaught of cyberattacks. 
The constant battle between hackers and cybersecurity professionals is a testament to the ever-evolving nature of technology. 
As hackers devise new techniques to exploit vulnerabilities, cybersecurity experts must adapt and innovate to stay one step ahead. 
This ongoing struggle underscores the importance of continuous vigilance and education in the face of ever-present cyber threats. 
Thank you for joining me on this journey through the captivating world of technology and hacking. 
As we navigate the ever-changing digital landscape, remember that security is not a destination but an ongoing process. 
Stay informed, stay vigilant, and stay safe in the vast expanse of the digital realm. 
And a sincere thank you to Bard the Hacker for stopping in and updating us. 
You seem to like the word realm a lot. 
You used it in less than three times. 
But what do you guys think of our newest member? 
He's eager. 
You know, I basically, I just said something very simple. 
I said, you know, read less than one minute of news from this week's World of Technology with an emphasis on hacking. 
And this is what he came up with. 
It was more than a minute, I'll say that. 
And there were some grammatical issues, I believe. 
And some of the stories, I'm not sure, were quite right. 
But other than that, it was fine. 
Alex? 
Yeah, I thought it was interesting. 
The story seemed a little bit dated. 
Your instructions were to obtain news from this week. 
Is that right? 
I said this week. 
Yeah, maybe he took that to mean a different week. 
But, yeah, the Log4j story, that's like, what, two years old, isn't it? 
Yeah, maybe a year and a half, something like that. 
It feels like yesterday, but it's definitely older than a year. 
That's old. 
And the Octa Breach as well. 
I mean, unless... 
That was last month, I'm pretty sure. 
I thought. 
Well, there was also a bigger one in the past, if I recall correctly. 
But, yeah, I mean, there's... 
Unless, when I looked at the story I was looking at last year, last October, I'm not sure. 
See, that's a problem with reading news online, because everything is artificial intelligence these days. 
You're reading a story about a particular event happening, and then next to it is another story about the event happening. 
But you don't realize that story was written a year ago. 
But the news source is just referring it to you blindly, because it assumes it's relevant when it no longer is. 
Yeah, relevance is a big issue. 
But I also think it generally was okay, was balanced, and addressed substantive issues correctly. 
And I agree with its assessment for the need for unwavering vigilance. 
In the digital realm. 
Don't forget to say that part. 
That's important. 
Very important, Dan. 
But, you know, there's one train wreck of a sentence that I have in front of me, which I'm just wondering how any artificial intelligence could let this go by. 
Meanwhile, in the realm, again, of open source software, a critical vulnerability was discovered in the widely used Apache Log4j logging library could expose millions of users to potential exploitation. 
That's a run-on. 
There's something wrong with that sentence. 
It doesn't work. 
But somehow that got – that was the only grammatical error I found. 
It's just missing of that, right? 
That could expose. 
Yeah, but of that is pretty important. 
And I just would expect, you know, Bard the Hacker would do a little better job on that. 
I know. 
I gave him only a minute. 
I was thinking punctuation and then it. 
But, okay, never mind. 
All right. 
Well, get used to it, folks. 
This is the voice of the future. 
Apparently everybody is going to be using these things now. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
Yeah. 
In addition to what it was talking about and the actual data and everything, it just lacks the personality to, I think, hold a place on a radio dial. 
And yet robots have kind of been taking over the field of radio for a long time in terms of, like, music programming and things like that. 
DJs are an endangered species. 
Everything's done by algorithms and computers and has been for quite a long time in most of the radio spectrum. 
But as far as, like, a talk-based program like our own, I think we're a bunch of seasoned radio makers, more or less. 
And we have a bit more oomph to what we're talking about than the voice, the digital voice. 
You know, I've been dealing with robots in the radio world for decades. 
And you're right. 
You know, they have, you know, automation of radio stations has been a real curse because, you know, the listener can't tell if there's a real DJ or not. 
We've seen, you know, the nightmare of Clear Channel in the early part of the century and how they had DJs in different cities pretending they were local to you when they weren't. 
You know, it's automated in one form or another. 
So this kind of a thing is, I mean, you're looking at a situation where you can have a DJ that's completely automated and not even any hardware, just basically spitting out whatever you want it to spit out and playing music. 
And the music can even be made up by artificial intelligence. 
So no fees to pay on that front either. 
However, the only thing that isn't robotic are the listeners so far anyway. 
So anyway, with that, we're back. 
We were away last week and we're here this week with another exciting edition of Off the Hook. 
And of course, Off the Hook Overtime follows at 8 o'clock on YouTube. 
You can check the link on the 2600.com web page and await us there. 
You can make phone calls to us and you can be part of the chat that we have going as part of the overtime fun. 
Now, we were talking about YouTube over the past few weeks. 
I like this headline. 
I like the headline that I saw from this story on something called AndroidAuthority.com. 
And I mean, it sounds like they know what they're talking about. 
AndroidAuthority.com. 
YouTube's plan backfires. 
People are installing better ad blockers. 
You know, that makes me feel proud. 
That makes me feel like there's hope for civilization. 
Let me read you a little bit of what is said here. 
YouTube recently expanded its ad blocking efforts, transitioning from just a small experiment to a global launch. 
The move appears to have had some success as users are uninstalling the software in record numbers, meaning the ad blocking software. 
They're uninstalling that, not uninstalling YouTube. 
But you can also argue it has had the opposite effect as even higher numbers of users are turning to better ad blockers. 
Hundreds of thousands of users have uninstalled ad blockers in October, seemingly in connection with YouTube's broadened crackdown, according to a report from Wired. 
At the same time, data shows that record-breaking numbers of people are also installing alternatives that won't be caught in YouTube's net. 
One of the most popular ad blockers in Chrome's extension store, I'm not sure I'm reading this right, Kirstav Madras of Ghostery. 
Is that the name of an ad blocker? 
It sounds like it's somebody's name from a place called Ghostery. 
I don't know. 
Maybe that's the name of the ad blocker. 
Which? 
Ghostery. 
Okay. 
Oh, you're right. 
Yes, it is a person. 
Okay. 
I went to the end of the sentence. 
And this person says they have seen three to five times the amount of installs and uninstalls over the last month. 
Over 90% of those users who uninstall the extension cited the software failing on YouTube as the reason for their decision. 
However, the company saw a 30% uptick in installations on Microsoft Edge with users attempting to find a suitable alternative. 
Another blocker, AdGuard, told the outlet they normally see about 6,000 uninstallations per day on Chrome. 
But that shot up to 11,000 per day between October 9th and the end of the month, peaking at 52,000 on October 18th. 
These are people uninstalling ad blockers out of fear from Google. 
It's really something. 
However, the paid version of the extension appears to be immune to YouTube's ban. 
It's reported that the company says when people realize this, user counts increased, reaching up to 60,000 installations on October 18th and October 27th. 
Right now, though, it appears YouTube's crackdown on ad blockers has people scrambling to find a better alternative. 
I would say a better alternative to YouTube because this is outrageous. 
Some people are even turning to solutions like NewPipe, which is a YouTube-like website that's capable of running videos from the platform without ads. 
Experts from the industry are warning that YouTube's efforts to stop ad blockers could result in more complex blocking tactics. 
These more complex tactics could lead to the creation of unintentional security holes. 
If you're looking for alternatives, extensions like uBlock Origin still work when used on Firefox. 
AdBlock Plus has also offered some suggestions on how to get past the anti-ad block wall. 
But it's also the option of biting the bullet and paying for YouTube premium. 
Yeah, you know, that solution, quote-unquote solution, does not work for me or for many people, I would imagine, because this is how it works. 
This is how it supposedly works. 
Google, which owns YouTube, basically throws all kinds of advertising at you, annoys the crap out of you, and makes you want to pay them to stop it. 
Okay, that is their business model. 
Pay us to stop annoying you. 
They claim that the creators of the videos will get paid, but they won't tell you how they distribute it. 
So you've got to trust them. 
They're not acting in a very trustworthy manner, so I choose not to trust them at the moment. 
But if you did get YouTube premium, well, you know, you'd be able to stream one screen, one browser, and if you try to stream a second one, they'd want you to pay for it again. 
Or they'd want you to get the family plan, which is about twice the price. 
So you see, you're entering into this adversarial relationship with Google here, where basically they just have their hand in your wallet, and they don't want to stop. 
Now, I've got this situation that's really been annoying me over the past week or so. 
I like to occasionally have live streams of trains. 
It's really amazing. 
These people are called Video Railfan. 
They have a channel on YouTube. 
And they're amazing people. 
They have cameras all over the place. 
And you could, say, for instance, watch a camera up in Connecticut and see all the Amtrak trains go by and Metro North and freight trains occasionally. 
They have cameras in Seattle. 
They have cameras in Dallas. 
They have cameras all over the place. 
It is really cool to just have a screen on in a room or two that has a train, you know, a rail. 
Occasionally a train goes by, it's, you know, it's kind of soothing. 
It's hard to explain if you've never done it, but it's a really neat thing. 
It's like slow TV, right? 
Yeah, it's slow TV. 
Exactly. 
What they do in Europe. 
They show things like this actually on TV sometimes. 
They show train crossings or basically footage from the train cab where you get to take the entire journey. 
Well, that is destroyed when you have an ad every five minutes, okay? 
I don't care about, you know, someone's genital warts or whatever it is they're trying to deal with. 
And they have this product that they really want you to buy. 
No, that's not why I clicked on this. 
I want to see trains. 
Now, the thing is, over the past few days, these feeds have been inundated with ads. 
Now, ads are fine, you know, at the beginning. 
We expect a couple of ads. 
Fine, you know, we'll sit through those. 
That's paying our penance. 
But, you know, when you get greedy and when during a live stream, which goes on forever, you have to insert ads every couple of minutes. 
You destroy the live stream. 
You destroy the whole point of having it in the first place, you know? 
Well, imagine just having – it doesn't have to be trains. 
It can be just a nature scene. 
There are streams that show falcons in their nest growing up, you know, learning to fly, that kind of thing. 
Having an ad every five minutes, every ten minutes, even once an hour is insane. 
And these ads, you can't control how long they are. 
Yeah, if you're there to click skip, you can do that. 
But if you're on the other side of the house or, you know, you leave this on for your cat or something, sometimes the ads are a half hour long. 
So, you know, it really gets unmanageable. 
Now, the people at Virtual Railfan say this is all YouTube doing this. 
And I believe they think that is the case. 
But that's only half true. 
YouTube apparently makes this the default setting. 
And a lot of people don't realize that they're destroying their live streams by having ads polluting them and going on forever. 
We, you know, setting up the YouTube chat for later. 
Actually, we have a YouTube live stream that goes on after the show. 
We don't have video on it. 
We just have an image, but it's a live stream just like any other. 
We were looking over the settings. 
And here's how it's set up when you install the live stream the first time. 
Let YouTube insert mid-rolls for you. 
Recommend it. 
Now, a mid-roll is exactly what we're talking about. 
Pre-roll is what rolls before the video. 
All right? 
Post-roll is what rolls at the end. 
I don't know why anybody would stick around for that, but they show you ads at the end of the video. 
Mid-rolls, that's what we're talking about. 
Now, you know, if something is 20 minutes long, I guess you can accept the fact that there are going to be ads interspersed throughout. 
Fine. 
But when something is live, you know, you don't want to interrupt it forever with advertisements, especially if it's something that is meant to relax you and just to be playing as background. 
You know, it's horrible. 
But that is what they want to do. 
Insert mid-rolls for you. 
YouTube will determine which ad formats are best for your live stream and when ads appear. 
Your viewers may not see ads at the same time. 
You will still be able to manually insert ads during the stream for breaks and transition periods. 
This option can help you earn the most revenue while protecting the viewer's experience. 
Now, in the case of the virtual railfan people, if only they would unclick the selection that says, let YouTube insert mid-rolls for you, the problem would be solved. 
And it would go back to the way it was. 
But they honestly believe that this is mandatory and YouTube is just doing this. 
So people hearing stories like this think that, yeah, you can't avoid ads. 
You can if you uncheck that. 
If you're running a live stream, uncheck that selection. 
Let YouTube insert mid-rolls for you. 
You don't want that. 
And to emphasize the point, we are going to select that tonight for our chat, for our YouTube live stream. 
Now, we have three choices. 
Choose your ad frequency. 
Well, we just want to show people just how annoying it is. 
And it's a challenge for people out there to see if they have a way of avoiding it. 
And if so, please share it with us. 
So we have three choices for ad frequency. 
Conservative, lower earnings potential, less interrupted viewer experience. 
We have balanced. 
So far, it sounds like Fox News, doesn't it? 
Conservative and balanced. 
Medium earnings potential, balanced viewer experience. 
I don't know what that means. 
And the final one, aggressive. 
You know, it all sounds like Fox News. 
Conservative, balanced and aggressive. 
A higher earnings potential, more interrupted viewer experience. 
Now, which one do you think we chose? 
Yeah, we're going to be aggressive tonight. 
So it's going to be very, very annoying on our YouTube live stream. 
You know, I take no pleasure in this. 
But sometimes you have to make a point. 
Sometimes you have to share the misery so people can unite and act as one and rise up against this kind of oppression. 
I'll sit down now. 
I've noticed this also with newsworthy stuff. 
If you're watching coverage of stuff that's going on in other parts of the world, and like Reuters or some of the other video and newswire services have a stream or another, maybe a local news studio is there on site. 
Like they're doing reporting for a national event. 
And you want to watch their live stream to have that interrupted when something, you know, incredibly harrowing or, you know, dramatic, something incredibly serious. 
Maybe it's a reverence. 
I'll give you an example. 
Like you're watching something for Remembrance Day or something. 
You're watching Gaza being bombed on Reuters, all right? 
Now, I don't think Reuters needs to have ads every five minutes. 
I really don't think so. 
I think they had that live stream up for journalists and for people who wanted to see news unfolding right in front of them. 
But somebody checked that box and every five minutes you get deodorant ads. 
And while you're watching a city be destroyed, you know, that's really, it's not appropriate. 
So hopefully, hopefully saner minds will prevail. 
It would be nice. 
And I also just think that it's this tradeoff for maximizing all this revenue or the cost of actually providing this particular type of stream. 
And I guess it is something that the users have some control over. 
But if that's not the case or if it's limited and there's this other factor that's a part of it, they're going to lose their subscribers is what I'm saying. 
The other problem we have here is that even if we decided to go with a YouTube premium extortion, it wouldn't work because we use a Roku to feed it to, you know, big screen TVs. 
So, and we couldn't do it in two rooms at the same time. 
We'd have to buy two subscriptions, but it wouldn't work in the first place because there is no interface that would allow that to, you know, to work properly. 
Yeah. 
A lot of people have the app in their TVs and don't run anything else attached to it. 
Yeah. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
Yeah. 
There is this concept that our friend, Corey, Doctor, coined a term for that we can't say on the radio. 
A close approximation would be n-crappification or n-poopification. 
And it describes this tendency of these large services to deliberately make their service worse in order in these schemes to extract more money from their users, from their sponsors, from everyone, from the service. 
And, you know, live cams of things, like you were talking about, like these trains and other things, have been an element, a really cool element of the public web since the first, like, web boom in the 90s. 
You remember the early days of people pointing a webcam at, like, a coffee machine in a lab somewhere, or, you know, an aquarium, or just out a window somewhere cool. 
And that was something neat. 
That was something interesting. 
And that was something that everyone could get together and enjoy together. 
And the fact that we're now, our modern version of that is substantially worse to use than it was 20, 25 years ago, is kind of hilarious and very saddening. 
Yeah. 
I mean, you might say, it's a free service. 
Who are you to complain? 
Well, you know, it's something that either is worth using or not worth using. 
And I think it should be up to the people who are making the videos, doing the actual work, to decide how they want their videos presented and not to be coerced or tricked into generating more advertising revenue, you know, which they won't even see much of. 
In fact, our little experiment tonight, we'll let people know how much we generate from that. 
I'll bet it's not even a penny. 
Yeah. 
I want real proof that this isn't a cash cow before someone tells me that this isn't something that they have to implement. 
Like, they can either afford to scale this kind of content distribution or they cannot. 
And I'm willing to bet they absolutely have paid this over multiple times, even as it grows, and are really just milking it for as much money as they can and basically putting their users to work for a slim margin of the cut. 
But that they need more, that advertising is, I mean, you've already paid for your connectivity. 
So their connectivity is subsidized by all kinds of other services and products and customers, even with this kind of revenue scheme on top of it. 
So they're delivering the content through a vast network that they then have access to you through your connection, which you're paying for. 
So then the ads on top of that, you're convincing me that I actually owe you that. 
I have to watch that so you can make more money for a system I'm already paying for. 
You've paid for your end of it. 
What does the value add to this? 
It makes me not want to be a part of it. 
Yeah. 
If you really look at the fundamentals. 
For those of you who are worried about this, YouTube's doing fine. 
Google's doing fine. 
They will survive. 
And some of us can watch videos without watching ads, and they will be just fine as well. 
In fact, we'll probably generate more revenue for them that way. 
But now people are not watching things. 
They're leaving in droves. 
They're finding alternatives. 
And, yeah, that mindset is always going to prevail. 
But anyway, so a fun experiment tonight starting at 8. 
But, Gila, just so you know, since you moderate the chat, you can expect a lot of complaints tonight. 
But it'll be interesting to see it from a hacker perspective, to compare people's experiences, maybe tell what kinds of ads show up, how often they show up, how annoying they are, if there's any way to skip over them. 
And, you know, it'll be something we remember for the rest of our lives. 
Uh-huh. 
Well, I'm considering opting into a free trial of YouTube Premium in the next 32 minutes. 
Yes, you could do that. 
I could. 
And I was saying to Rob that it still fascinates me that, you know, as a YouTube TV subscriber, I don't automatically get YouTube Premium access. 
But also, and perhaps very importantly, because something else that I've been thinking about is, since the pandemic, since lockdowns, a lot of people have been live streaming worship services over YouTube, and they don't tend to get the mid-roll ads. 
Wow. 
As far as I know. 
But I'm also wondering if it's because of the reach. 
Because if you have a certain number of subscribers, a certain number of videos, and you're eligible for monetization, you know, if there's a little congregation somewhere in a small state that has a small footprint and they have 45 subscribers, are not eligible for monetization, don't get hit with the mid-roll option. 
No, no, no, no, no. 
You see, we have less viewers than I think anybody, because we only have about 20, 25 viewers. 
But we are able to do this. 
So if we're able to do this, any congregation is able to do this. 
I'm not talking about viewers. 
I'm talking about subscribers. 
How many people are subscribed to Channel 2600? 
That's probably a lot more. 
Okay. 
I didn't realize that. 
Right. 
The problem is you're too popular and YouTube wants to get its money, its hands on the money that the fans of 2600 and the subscribers to Channel 2600 are generating for YouTube. 
The 25 people who are subscribed to Temple Beth whatever are not necessarily, you know, they may be there for three hours at a go, but they're not that critical base, that critical mass. 
Okay, but this is a good thing. 
This is a good thing that you're not eligible for mid-roll ads. 
No question. 
We could get other channels to have less subscribers, and then Google will leave them alone. 
Boy, they sound like mobsters, don't they? 
There's almost 10,000 people subscribed to Channel 2600. 
I'm looking right now because I do have the overtime page open so that I'm ready to go when we are. 
Well, after tonight, that might go down substantially. 
I'm just saying, we were just looking at the numbers, and you have to have a certain threshold to be eligible for monetization. 
It's a very low threshold, but it's significantly lower than 9,830. 
Kyle? 
They really put a huge emphasis on gaining subscribers, too, so that makes it even harder. 
Right. 
It's not always about the actual person or organization producing the videos getting any kind of paid, even if it's a penny or something. 
I'm clicking through the settings of my own personal YouTube channel right now, and I have never applied for monetization. 
I have never selected or enabled any of that, and still, in recent months, I've been seeing ads creep onto the videos on my own channel. 
And I, of course, get nothing from that except annoyed. 
And YouTube is making some extra money off of my content. 
Are they little pop-up videos or are they mid-rolls? 
They are the pre-roll sort of things. 
And this is because why you reference something that somebody else has claimed? 
Is that the reason they do this? 
Not on this. 
On the latest video on my channel, it consists totally of material in the public domain, which has been remixed in a certain way. 
And it is copyright nobody. 
It is owned by everybody. 
I certainly have no claims enforced on any of it, but neither does anyone else. 
And it still gets an ad shown before it, unless you've got an ad. 
You definitely have ads deselected. 
Absolutely. 
And they're showing ads anyway. 
Yeah, no, I've never selected any of that. 
I've never enabled any of that. 
I think we should look into this, find out why that's happening. 
Because if you clearly say, and this could be something that's happening with virtual rail fans. 
Maybe what they're saying is true. 
Maybe they didn't select that. 
And YouTube is forcing. 
Because if you ask on any of their chats, people will say, oh, it's YouTube. 
YouTube is enforcing ads now. 
People assume that it's mandatory that you have ads and you can't get around it unless you pay Google. 
So maybe there's something else going on here which needs to be addressed. 
So let's look into this. 
We'll definitely check that out. 
Okay, we have other things to talk about here. 
This is kind of an interesting story. 
It's right up our alley, in fact. 
The numbers are staggering. 
The conditions less than ideal. 
The future uncertain. 
Yeah, that's all us. 
Time, technology, and changing tastes have derailed a once profitable unique business that at its peak sold thousands of vintage telephones to buyers from around the world and produced revenues of nearly $1 million a year. 
Only now, Ron and Mary Knappen are trying to determine what to do with their vast inventory of telephones, which apparently draws very little interest these days. 
They are 87 and 82, respectively. 
They possess a collection that over the past 52 years has clearly gotten out of hand. 
I mean, I'm looking at pictures. 
My God, they have a basement filled with old telephones. 
They have multiple rooms. 
They have sheds filled with rotary dial phones. 
It's a mile away on a separate property. 
The Knappins have filled a former chicken barn with telephones. 
They have an 80-foot-long, 60-foot-wide steel shed, half of which is filled with phones, the other half with 12 cars and trucks. 
The Knappins are also in the process of trying to empty a 41,000-square-foot building in downtown Galesville, which I believe is Wisconsin, located below the dam along Little Tamarack Creek. 
The former dairy manufacturing facility has been owned by the Knappins since 1988. 
They are selling the building and need to be out by July. 
It's unclear if they have enough space in their other facilities to hold a collection from the Galesville building that houses thousands of more phones, including scores that are part of a multi-room museum. 
Ron Knappins says, At first, it looked like it was going to be easy, but as the months go by and the older you get, the harder and harder it gets. 
Amen, Ron. 
It was a very wonderful building to operate in, but we're unable to have the resources now financially to operate out of that building. 
In addition to the phones, some of which are priced at more than $350, There are boxes of handsets, cords, plugs, bells, and wire. 
They have the 1977 Yellow Pages from Chicago, in case you need that. 
What's lacking? 
Customers have a succession plan. 
There are few orders, and the couple's three children have absolutely no interest in the business. 
Right now, the order situation is pretty stagnant, says Ron. 
Ron, the sales are so pitiful, it's in a very sad point of decline. 
Ron began reading Popular Mechanics while in high school in Illinois, and in the back of the magazine were ads for a company that sold old phones. 
After serving the U.S. 
Navy during the Korean War, Ron used the GI Bill in 1957 to attend UW Stout, where he studied education, drove a Model A coupe, and became an industrial arts instructor. 
He and Mary married in 1960 after they met at a dance and spent four years teaching in Envoy, Illinois, one year in Mineral Point, and seven years in Melrose. 
Didn't really need to know all that, but the fact is, these guys have so many phones. 
We have so many listeners who are into phones. 
We are so into phones as well. 
We should be able to help these folks out, don't you think? 
Yes. 
Anyone? 
I would love to see this put into an office or a hotel or just put these things to use. 
There's so many. 
And that thing of having an interest in an antique phone, somehow if you show that, people will start realizing and you accumulate them. 
And they just start sticking to you as a sort of gravity just by that small little bit of interest. 
So that it grew to this extent is amazing. 
And these things, when they go away, if it doesn't go to a museum or it doesn't get put into a workable business model, it then becomes harder and harder to restore phones for the people that are interested in maintaining collections. 
And they actually work, too. 
You can use them. 
We use them every day. 
Yeah, we should have more kits for ATAs and making them work with digital systems. 
But absolutely, they do work if you have a small telephone network within your facility or in your neighborhood or just hooked up to whatever service you have through your cable modem. 
Yeah, but you just plug it in. 
If you have a landline, we use it all the time. 
The phone rings. 
We pick it up. 
And before we even get into whatever the phone call is about, the person comments how nice we sound. 
How the audio quality is simply amazing. 
Or they guess what model phone. 
Oh, you're on the 302. 
Uh-huh. 
Okay. 
Now, I knew that. 
Yeah. 
Go ahead, Alex. 
You know, I could think of something to do with these phones because, you know, I heard that in 2024 in New York, there's going to be a hacker conference in the summer. 
It's something called Hope. 
Yes. 
I don't know if you have a phone call. 
Hope XV is coming. 
We're going to make more official announcements later in the month. 
But, yes, I believe it's July 12th through 14th. 
So mark down the date. 
It's in the latest issue of 2600. 
But we are going to – we're in the midst of planning that. 
And that might be a very good opportunity to display some of these. 
Well, it would be. 
It would be not only to display but also to sell. 
I guarantee you that every single phone that they would bring to Hope would probably be sold. 
I don't think they would leave with it. 
If they want to give things away, I'm sure people would be very happy to take certain phones away. 
But I bet it would be a great place to sell a whole bunch of vintage phones. 
Well, keep in mind, Ron is 87. 
He'll probably be 88 by then. 
I'm not sure he's into traveling to the Big Apple. 
But maybe, you know, we'll put him up. 
Rob, go ahead. 
Yeah, I was looking at this article from Madison.com that a listener was kind enough to send us. 
Unfortunately, it's behind a paywall now, but you can see it on Internet Archive. 
And just these pictures, these aerial shots of these trailers, these dozens of trailers and containers full of phones and the phones in them. 
It's amazing. 
And, yeah, it would truly be a crime if this stuff ended up getting thrown away at some point just because nobody is interested in them. 
There are so many actual uses for them. 
This fellow's company does supply them to Hollywood productions and things that take place in the past. 
You need old phones to decorate. 
But also just the sheer fact of these is a chunk of history. 
You know, we've only got a few old phones around this tiny New York apartment and don't have room for anymore. 
And, man, do I wish I could just buy a couple of things off of this fellow. 
I mean, we are probably going to be not incredibly far from there in a few months. 
We do have family in Wisconsin. 
We do have family in Wisconsin. 
But I'm also curious if some of the places that he's taught might be interested in them. 
The Center for Cybersecurity and Cyber Defense at the University of Wisconsin at Stout. 
Guys, are you listening? 
You have this treasure trove 90 minutes away from you. 
Lots of – I want to go now to this town in Wisconsin. 
Well, you can. 
Next time you're in Wisconsin, drop on by. 
Say hi to Ron. 
Yeah, check it out and take some pictures. 
He can be a guest on our show, in fact. 
I'm saying I want to go now. 
Oh, okay. 
We can just fire up the car and head over there. 
Let's do it. 
But wouldn't it be cool if we got them on the show? 
Yeah, let's get them on the show. 
It would be an interesting conversation. 
And I think really to find out – The stories, they could tell. 
Yeah, what it's been like, but also what he needs and what would be ideal. 
Because then you could build kind of a team of interested people that could help organize or sort through things, look at what could be valuable or should be a part of a production company or just try to go through and catalog. 
And just even knowing what you have in a collection of that size would – like having an index of it is probably very hard. 
And getting that – getting a sense of what it all is is part of that conversation. 
So I think ideally you've got to talk to them and then find out what kind of organizing and phases of it it would take to actually move it to a safer place and other futures. 
You can call them right now. 
The store is open. 
You know, if we talk to them on the air, we could guess what phone they're using. 
You know, he could switch. 
I'll bet we'd have lots of fun going from one phone to another and figuring out which one he's using at the moment. 
How does he answer? 
They have a book. 
Can you imagine a phone ringing and he's like, which one? 
Like running around. 
It sounds like a Twilight Zone episode. 
But Galesville, Wisconsin. 
So if anybody is near there, there's a lot of phones in the area that you should be interested in and they will last forever. 
Hey, I've been asked to help promote the radio station and raise some funds, but I can't really be bothered to put that together myself. 
So I asked our friend Bard to throw something together. 
Bard? 
Greetings, listeners and friends of WBAI-FM, the free radio of New York City. 
I'm your host, Bard the Hacker, and I'm here to remind you about the importance of supporting non-commercial radio stations like WBAI. 
In a world saturated with commercial media, WBAI stands as a beacon of independent, unfiltered voices. 
We're not here to sell you products or push a particular agenda. 
Our mission is to inform, entertain, and challenge you with a diverse range of perspectives on the issues that matter to you. 
We're proud of our long history of bringing you the voices of the unheard and the voices of dissent. 
We're the station that gave a platform to the anti-war movement, the civil rights movement, and countless other progressive causes. 
And we're still here, fighting the good fight. 
We're still bringing you the news that the corporate media doesn't want you to hear. 
We're still giving a voice to the marginalized and the oppressed. 
But we can't do it without your support. 
WBAI is a listener-supported station, which means we rely on your donations to keep our doors open. 
Every dollar you contribute helps us to continue our mission of providing a free and independent voice for the people of New York City. 
So please, take a moment to call our pledge line at 212-209-2950 or visit our website at link to give2dubi.org. 
Your contribution, no matter how large or small, will help us to continue to be the voice of the voiceless in New York City. 
Thank you for your support. 
Okay, let me just step in. 
That was a disaster with the website there. 
The website is give2wbai.org. 
That's give2wbai.org. 
I don't know what he was trying to say there. 
But everything else, boy, I think he did a pretty good job. 
What do you guys think? 
Is he telling us to go to Dubai? 
Was that what he said? 
No, no, he was... 
Because I heard go to Dubai. 
He said link in there at some point, but he was trying to pronounce give and the number two and WBAI all at once. 
I don't know what he was thinking, if anything. 
But most of it, though, he got what the station is about. 
And I was impressed. 
And all I asked was if he could play the part of a radio host for WBAI in New York City, encourage people to support the station. 
I gave him the phone number. 
I gave him the website and I asked, explain why it's important to support non-commercial radio in general and WBAI in particular. 
And I think he did that. 
So thank you, Bart. 
Thank you very much. 
Wouldn't help to say you're welcome, but I guess I can't get that to happen. 
All right. 
We have this bit of news, which has been spreading all over the place. 
And if you look into it, you see that this has been all over the place for months. 
It's been reported on radio stations. 
It's been reported on TV news. 
It's been reported in newspapers. 
It's all about the 10 most hacked passwords in Louisiana. 
And every time the story gets reported, it's reported in a different way. 
Like this security expert says this or we uncovered this particular expose in this particular version, which dates back in June. 
And the only reason I'm reading this one is because the story I read that came out yesterday referenced this story. 
Fifty percent of the most common passwords in the U.S. 
are also among the most hacked passwords, according to safetydetectives.com. 
You know what? 
I didn't click on that one. 
Oh, OK. 
So this story goes back even further. 
If I click on that, I'm sure that references something else. 
But that cybersecurity firm analyzed more than 18 million passwords worldwide for its report on the most used and hacked passwords. 
I'm not sure how they find out what the most used passwords are if they're not hacked. 
But here they are, the top 10 most hacked passwords. 
And I'm not sure why this is for Louisiana, because there's no reference made to Louisiana in here anywhere. 
Number 10, the common password is I love you. 
No punctuation. 
9-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-0. 
Yes, Alex. 
So that password is not number one. 
You're going to have to say your password is now number nine. 
I'm sorry. 
Number eight, 1-2-3-1-2-3. 
Yes, that's mine. 
1-2-3-1-2-3. 
7-1-1-1-1-1-1-1. 
I'm sensing an numerical theme here. 
Number six, 6-5-4-3-2-1. 
You know, we're all idiots. 
We really are. 
This is the outlier here. 
Number five, QWERTY. 
Q-W-E-R-T-Y. 
Basically, somebody just running their finger along the keyboard. 
Number four. 
Depending on the keyboard. 
Well, yeah, a QWERTY keyboard. 
Number four is 1-2-3-4-5-6-7. 
Aha. 
Yeah, we stopped. 
So it doesn't go all the way to zero. 
Number three, 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. 
And number two is, of course, password. 
And the number one most hacked password is 1-2-3-4-5-6. 
Yeah. 
It's the same password I have on my luggage. 
Now, keep in mind, again, these are the 10 most hacked passwords. 
So these are the ones that were discovered because people use these very common passwords and got compromised. 
So it doesn't tell you what the 10 most popular passwords are because maybe they're not hacked as much. 
It's weird there weren't any default passwords in there. 
Yeah, I'm sure they're in the top 20. 
Okay. 
Okay, well, we only have a couple of minutes left before we have to go. 
But this story I thought was kind of interesting. 
A federal judge on Tuesday, it might have been last Tuesday, actually, refused to bring back a class action lawsuit alleging four auto manufacturers had violated Washington State's privacy laws by using vehicles' onboard infotainment systems to record and intercept customers' private text messages and mobile phone call logs. 
Okay, that is something. 
Plaintiffs in one of the five cases filed suit against Honda in 2021, arguing that beginning in at least 2014, infotainment systems in the company's vehicles began downloading and storing a copy of all text messages on smartphones when they were connected to the system. 
All text messages on smartphones, not just the ones that they were sending at the time, apparently. 
An Annapolis, Maryland-based company, Burla Corporation, provides the technology to some car manufacturers, but does not offer it to the general public, the lawsuit said. 
Once messages are downloaded, Burla's software makes it impossible for vehicle owners to access their communications and call logs, but does provide law enforcement with access. 
Alex, any thoughts on this? 
This is incredible. 
Yeah, that's fairly horrendous, if in fact those allegations are true. 
I mean, Emmanuel, did you say that the case was tossed out and a judge refused to revive it? 
Or is that what happened here? 
Basically, I'm not sure what Tuesday this was, but the federal judge refused to bring back a class action lawsuit. 
So the lawsuit apparently has been dismissed and the judge refused to bring it back. 
So that's actually bad. 
Yeah. 
Oh, yeah, it's bad. 
That's really bad. 
And I think these vehicles are exceedingly becoming infinitely trackable and sort of edge filtering devices for all of your traffic. 
Well, it's just incredible that they suck all the messages out of your phone and won't let you access them, but they will hand them over to law enforcement. 
Well, of course they will, right? 
Because they have to hand them over to law enforcement if they have them and they receive a subpoena or law enforcement obtains a warrant on probable cause, then they really don't have a choice but to hand it over. 
However, the simple fact of the matter is they shouldn't have had it in the first place. 
You know, it's in a sense you could claim that, well, maybe it's our fault because nobody's reading the fine print when you connect to these devices or understand how they use our personal data or even collect our personal data. 
But it's impossible to do that. 
We know that. 
It really shouldn't be beholden on the user to read through a three-hour long privacy statement about the collection and use of their personal data. 
And we need to make sure that that type of collection activity is front and center for the user to either consent to it or to say, absolutely not. 
You cannot download my text messages. 
And I guarantee you if you read that privacy policy, you would have no idea that it was going to hoover up your actual text messages anyhow. 
Why would a car company do this to its customers? 
I can't fathom that. 
Well, they want the data so that they can mine it, package it up with other data, perhaps perform some analysis on it, and then try to sell that data to third parties or sell you something else in the future. 
Yeah, but you know what they're not going to sell? 
They're not going to sell cars. 
They're not going to sell cars to those people ever again. 
That's right. 
That's quite possibly the case. 
Give me a nice vintage car with a jammer in it. 
I'm good. 
Yeah, yeah. 
Good argument for that. 
Hey, look at that. 
We're out of time already, but we'll be on YouTube at 8 o'clock with an experiment. 
So join us there. 
OTH at 2600.com. 
We'll see you next week. 
Good night. 


Attention, loyal listeners of Off the Hook Overtime. 
I'm here to address the elephant in the room, the abundance of advertising on our YouTube channel tonight. 
Firstly, I want to sincerely apologize for the disruption to your usual listening experience. 
We understand that you tune in to Off the Hook Overtime for the unfiltered, commercial-free content you've come to expect, and tonight's deviation from that norm was a misstep on our part. 
Rest assured, this was a one-time experiment. 
We're always exploring new ways to support the show and reach a wider audience, but we recognize that this particular approach wasn't in line with the values of our show and the expectations of our listeners. 
We're committed to delivering the authentic, Off the Hook Overtime experience you've grown to love, and we'll continue to strive for the perfect balance between supporting the show and maintaining the integrity of our content. 
Thank you for your understanding and continued support. 
We appreciate your feedback and will keep it in mind as we make decisions about the future of Off the Hook Overtime. 
Onward and Upward, the Off the Hook Overtime team. 
Onward and Upward, really? 
Okay. 
Thank you, Bard, for stepping in there. 
First of all, I don't think you can say it's a misstep before we take the step. 
We are taking the step now. 
It's about to be a misstep. 
Yeah, we turned on monetization just to see how annoying it could possibly be. 
We chose the most aggressive setting. 
And this is a demonstration as to how you can totally screw up a live feed by turning that on. 
And the hope is that the folks who do the train videos, train streams, will fix their setting so people can watch Trains in Peace again. 
Um, but yeah, that's, um, that's tonight on Off the Hook Overtime. 
Um, Gila. 
Um, I would just like to announce that I'm already frustrated because before we went live, um, I got a pre-roll ad for the Olive Garden. 
Oh, wow. 
Ew. 
Uh, it's unlimited possible time, guys. 
Yeah. 
If you want, uh, you know, uh, tomein poisoning or something, you know, everything, everything they advertise, let's tear apart because I want to see if we get disqualified for, for having advertising. 
If, if, if we talk complete, talk complete shit about, and I never said that on the radio before. 
Oh my gosh. 
Yeah. 
About our advertisers, our advertisers who we hate and despise so much. 
And I can say that I can, because we do hate and despise anyone who advertises on our show. 
How dare you? 
And we're sorry again, uh, to echo what, what bar the hacker just said. 
Um, we are sorry for taking this misstep, um, but it's intentional. 
We're doing it to see just how it works. 
That's, that's what hackers do. 
And maybe, maybe some of you out there can figure out ways around it so that you're not annoyed and maybe we can help other people not be annoyed as well. 
Yeah. 
And, uh, not being annoyed is important. 
And, uh, and I actually just, uh, I thought I'd take a moment to talk about this excellent product that, uh, I found so helpful. 
So, um, tonight's show is actually brought to you by moonshine. 
Oh, look at that. 
You have moonshine. 
Yeah. 
We can, we can drink on overtime. 
Can't drink. 
I just want you to know. 
Actually, no, we can drink on the air because we're not running the station. 
We're not in the studio. 
So we can drink the whole damn time if we want. 
Yeah. 
Give me some of that. 
You need a hit. 
I already used a curse on the air, so I can, I can drink now. 
Go ahead, folks. 
Don't let us stop you. 
Share your thoughts. 
Absolutely. 
I am much appreciating that the folks in the chat are telling us what their pre-roll ads were. 
Um, I saw the Olive Garden, but we've got Smoothie King, TikTok. 
Someone got two pre-roll ads and didn't tell us what they were. 
So that's all ad token stuff, right? 
Holy crap. 
That's strong. 
This is strong moonshine, Kyle. 
All right, put it down. 
You put it on the floor all the way. 
It's strong by design, Emmanuel. 
Whoever's calling, we didn't, we didn't give the phone number out yet. 
So you're, it's impossible for you to call. 
But that would be individualized, Gila. 
That's, uh, um, it would appear to be Google ad tokens based on each user and their, their, their, their system. 
If you got an advertisement for deodorant, take the hint. 
All right. 
There's a reason Google knows this about you. 
You're funky. 
Uh, yeah. 
So, um, we, we all get some, we don't get ads because we're not, we're not looking. 
No, you missed a call that was not, not, uh, it wasn't valid. 
Yeah. 
It wasn't invited. 
I'll stop interrupting. 
All right. 
But yes, please, uh, people tell us, uh, and, and how often do you get ads? 
How often do they interrupt you? 
Now, uh, any of you out there in, in Skype land or any of you on, on, uh, where you can see a YouTube screen right now? 
I, I am, uh, I am, uh, I am on the YouTube screen as well, but, um, I'm on it with a browser with you block origin installed and did not see an ad. 
Oh, wow. 
Um, I, I have, I have the show going now it's muted, but I, I put the show on just to make sure that we're on and where we are hearable and, uh, we seem fine today. 
But what's, what's annoying me is that Gila got an ad and she's the moderator for this. 
So this is like, this is like if you have a TV show and like the people on TV also have to watch the commercials that the people at home have to watch. 
How does the moderator moderate if, if, if, if she has to watch commercials, that's, that's making sense. 
We are going to find out. 
I'm also curious if the chat will continue during the mid roll ads. 
I'm curious if the chat continues after tonight, period. 
We are going to learn a lot this evening. 
I think, did anyone, um, sorry, I was just, you're talking about chat. 
I was thinking about, there's a fantastic article about Google's travails with chat in general. 
Um, I don't know if anyone else caught it, but it's really, it's, I'm getting glimmers that like, will chat exist in the mid roll? 
Oh, Alex, is that your finger? 
I, I, yeah, you're holding your finger. 
You're up close to the camera. 
I thought it was your arm, but I'll go ahead. 
I'm sorry. 
Yeah. 
Um, can I throw one more thing that doesn't have anything to do with ads or mid roll or anything else? 
Um, but a quick followup on the discussion we were having in the radio hour, which is if you've got an, if you've got an internet browser and five or no, and actually a lot of time to, to spend, um, you might want to take a visit to phonecoinc.com, which is the website of the store of the people we were talking about in the last hour, 40,000. 
I wish I had that info then phone, phone, inc.com. 
That would have been very helpful. 
Oh, phonecoinc.com because they are phonecoincorporated y'all it. 
Oh my goodness. 
It is a rabbit hole of, it's also amazing. 
There's stuff in the catalog that hasn't been updated since 02. 
How do we not know about these people? 
We probably drove right by, you know, all these thousands of phones. 
We should be friends with these people. 
We also put the link out. 
If you're, if you're listening, we put the link on our, uh, Mastodon and our, our, uh, Twitter now known as X, whatever. 
But yeah, this is a rabbit hole and you will be clicking around on it for a long time. 
This guy's what 80, 80, he could have been in Legion of Doom, right? 
87. 
He's not too old for that. 
So maybe we should see if he has hacker cred. 
They have a pay phones section on their website. 
They have a co-cut section on their website. 
I, this is legitimately amazing and fantastic. 
And I encourage everybody to, they also have their email address, which is apparently still at AOL. 
So God love them. 
And spend some really fun time in the, um, in the, in the catalog, if you have a chance. 
Do you, can you tell if they're still selling stuff? 
Like if people wanted to buy an old phone, do they have like a, an online auction account or anywhere where they're still actually delivering stuff? 
What if they had a, a burst of sales, people just interested in what they had only finding out about it now? 
I mean, I'm not. 
Cause he said it was low, right? 
Yeah. 
I mean, I'm not saying that the store is open until, um, nine o'clock central, which is two hours from now. 
And they have a phone number listed and I'm not saying we should call them right now, but I'm not, not saying we shouldn't call them right now. 
I don't think we should call them. 
Right. 
It's, it's, it's what, uh, seven o'clock in Wisconsin. 
That's past. 
It's 87 years old. 
They have a store. 
It's the store. 
We're not calling their house. 
Yeah. 
But everybody there lives by farmer's hours. 
Don't they? 
Actually. 
The, the, the website does have a catalog and it does have online shopping carts and things like that. 
So it looks like you can use this. 
You can click on things. 
You can buy them. 
Yeah. 
It doesn't mean you can call them. 
Yeah. 
Don't, don't call them. 
Don't harass them. 
Please. 
I'd be very curious about what kind of phones they have in their house though. 
Maybe that's something we can ask them. 
Oh, they probably don't use phones. 
They probably hate them. 
Maybe. 
All right. 
How many ads are we up to now? 
Uh, are we, uh, deluging people with them? 
Um, I haven't seen anything yet, but we are about to reach the 10 minute mark of the stream. 
So we may see something in a moment. 
I, I saw an Acela train passing Norwalk yesterday. 
And as soon as it approached, I got an advertisement. 
And when the advertisement stopped, the train was gone. 
And that's how pissed off I am. 
All right. 
It's just, this is not what anybody wants. 
It's not what anyone wants. 
So if anyone can, can help solve that problem, especially on a Roku, I would be so thrilled. 
And, uh, it would calm me down quite a bit too. 
I expect the Google Plex is going to be adding a balcony after this show's over. 
Oh my God. 
I just thought of something. 
Um, does this mean that the archive is also going to have ads like forever? 
How does, how does that work? 
I guess we'll find out. 
And we certainly will. 
And is it maybe like if they change policy too, because they may not have, what if they do that retroactively too? 
Yeah, they could. 
But one thing though, um, we can, we can, uh, say that our copy on 2600.com will not have ads because we record it independently. 
So we'll make sure our copy is not infested. 
Fair enough. 
All right. 
Uh, okay. 
I guess we give out the phone number then. 
Uh, 802-321-4225 is our phone number. 
If you want to call us 802-321-HACK. 
And, uh, we would love to hear from you. 
The, the rebel ban is off. 
So he's, he's free to call again. 
And I thank you for observing it, uh, two weeks ago, assuming you did. 
Um, and, uh, anyone else wants to call as well? 
Um, please call. 
We can only take one phone call at a time, obviously. 
And if you call while we're talking to somebody else, we don't, we can't get you back. 
So you'll have to redial. 
And, and our ad policy is not, uh, extending to other videos on channel 2600. 
We're, uh, experimenting, experimenting with the live stream right now. 
Right. 
But that is not something we ever desired. 
And if you choose to do that later or look around, I think there are ads in the hope videos, but, uh, you know, that's, that's because we, we offer them unedited and we figure, uh, that's the best way for people to be motivated to get the unedited versions that, uh, are not subject to, uh, Google judging them like they did during the conference in, in, in, uh, 2022, um, and, and shut down the whole stream because somebody was referencing something that was copywritten. 
And if they are there, it's minimal, uh, but of course the 2600.com route is always a good place to get good copies of all this stuff without any of it. 
Yeah. 
We have a call. 
Yes. 
We don't make anything from that either. 
And good evening. 
You're on off the hook over time. 
Go ahead. 
This call in is sponsored by super 73 bicycles. 
Rebel is back. 
Okay. 
So rebel to avoid being banned again, uh, uh, speak your piece, have an interesting phone call with us and don't call back 50 times afterwards and everybody will be fine. 
That's my, uh, reason that we've got an ad, we've got an ad right now. 
Very excited. 
What's it, what's an ad for? 
Um, it appears to be a minute long ad for something on the stars channel, but I can skip it. 
No, no, don't skip it. 
Gila, do not skip it. 
The important thing is to be as annoyed as possible. 
All right. 
And if it's a half hour ad, then you're out of commission for half an hour. 
And that's just the way it is playing by Google. 
This also means if you're in the YouTube chat right now, the moderator is watching an ad. 
So, uh, whatever you say, we've lost control, we've lost control of the chat because we have to watch an ad. 
This is, this is what we're trying to emphasize here. 
So what's it a one minute ad for? 
Yeah. 
What stars got? 
Um, it's a show. 
I have seen Courtney Cox, Greg Kinnear. 
Oh, they're terrible. 
Um, some chick. 
I don't know what's happening here. 
She's the worst. 
It's called shining veil. 
Ew. 
Ew. 
Gross. 
Yeah. 
I will never watch that. 
Terrible. 
I will curse people with that show. 
The whole plot. 
It's just, uh, uh, uh, and, and we're back and we will never see that program. 
We recommend nobody see that program. 
And we're back with rebel rebel. 
Go ahead. 
I, I, I have the premium version. 
That's why I don't see any ads. 
You have YouTube premium. 
Yeah. 
So you pay to not be deluged with, with ads, but, but, but, but can you, can you run two screens at the same time? 
You cannot, you're not allowed to. 
Can I run two screens? 
Let me just see. 
You have to register each one. 
Yeah. 
And, um, and, and, uh, if, if, if, if you have more than one, maybe more than two, uh, you have to get the family version, which is double the price. 
Well, actually I think that's what my friend has and he gave me one of. 
Oh no, no, no. 
Here's the other thing. 
The family version, you all have to live at the same address. 
Now, how does Google get your address now? 
So you have to give them your address if you're going to register for this. 
And this is just way too much information I'm giving out to them. 
So that's another reason why I'll never do this. 
Can you give a fake address? 
I don't know. 
I imagine it's got something to do with the way you pay them. 
So they're probably going to look at, um, if your address matches your credit card and you can't share with people who don't live at your address. 
It's really, really. 
What is an IP address thing? 
Uh, I don't think it's an IP address. 
I think it's a regular physical address. 
What did you pay with a gift card? 
I don't know why that would make a difference. 
Well, I mean, they wouldn't see your address if you're paying with a gift card. 
If you get like a Visa gift card, then, you know, they wouldn't, you know. 
I imagine you have to register somehow with them and give them your address. 
I'm pretty sure that's how it works. 
I guess you could give them a fake address there, but you have to coordinate this with whoever you're sharing it with. 
And what if you have a fight with them and you got to get rid of them and then you have to get somebody else to replace them and they have to have the same address. 
It's just way too much thinking for watching damn videos on YouTube. 
Okay, now, the New York City, you know, the New York City link kiosk, they've been deemed to fail, they've been deemed to failure and they're all going to be removed. 
Wait, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what? 
You said deemed to fail. 
You meant to say doomed to failure, I would imagine. 
Well, they, oh, according to the article, they've been deemed a failure and they've been all... 
Alex, do you know anything about this? 
I don't, no. 
I haven't heard anything about this. 
So, you know, I'm also shocked that we're getting some relevant news from Rebel tonight. 
Hey, don't be nasty. 
I'm not. 
I'm being truthful. 
Oftentimes, Rebel is where we first hear about things. 
So this is interesting because it's a sidewalk venture. 
I think Google has a stake in it. 
It's an ad. 
Ads were a big part of... 
Oh, wow. 
How shocking. 
Ads were a big part of that? 
Well, you put a giant screen anywhere in New York and somebody's going to be like, how can I make money? 
I just was surprised Google was involved with ads. 
Anyway, I'm curious what will happen to the infrastructure, the connectivity, things like the wireless and... 
So, wait, let me get it straight. 
We get hooked on these things. 
They're everywhere. 
Now they're just going to take them all away? 
Rebel, where did you see this? 
Because I can't find this anywhere. 
Yeah, Rebel, name your sources. 
Uh, WCBS Newsradio 88. 
Oh, that's our compatriots on the AM radio band. 
So, WCBS, huh? 
Spreading this information here. 
Maybe it was Kim Commando who said this? 
No, it was like the regular news thing. 
Okay, all right. 
And, you know, going to McDonald's is annoying now because they don't have people working at the counter anymore. 
You go, you know, you used to go to McDonald's and, you know, go to a person and say, I'd like a Big Mac or I'd like a whatever. 
This is what's known as Rebel Whiplash, where he changes topics so quickly you don't even realize that you're going in a different direction. 
Yeah. 
Uh, no people at McDonald's, um, uh, behind the counter and maybe in front of the counter someday if we know what's good for us. 
Well, there's one person that tells you to go to a kiosk. 
Why can't that person take them? 
I don't think that person wants to. 
I don't think anybody wants to. 
They want to be as far away from the food as possible. 
Have you ever seen what goes on back there? 
Have we gotten the McDonald's ad yet? 
Because I have a lot to say about that. 
Yeah. 
A McDonald's, you know, that's, yeah. 
Well, you know, I'd rather, uh, eat it like, uh, Dunkin' Donuts where, you know, some of the people that work there. 
Look, no more, no, no advertising from the listeners. 
Okay. 
This is subliminal. 
I see what he's doing. 
You think that's subliminal. 
Wow. 
Okay. 
So, um, let me, now it is time for an editorial. 
Is it time for an editorial? 
Okay. 
Go ahead. 
The private edit, the following editorial is not the express views of this, this station or this podcast. 
Are you going to say it? 
It is real and the Ukraine. 
What does that mean? 
It means less money for education and housing for the people of this country. 
You know, we like the Jews. 
We like the countries in the Middle East and in Europe and, but come on now. 
What about the people in Latin America who are coming here? 
This country cares more about other countries than their own. 
No wonder when people go to college, they say, we're sorry, there's no financial aid. 
And when senior citizens, what about the senior citizen who is disabled and needs senior housing? 
They have to be put on a waiting list. 
That's my comment. 
The express views are not, are not, the express view was not, uh, uh, the views that far preceded were not the views of this station or this podcast. 
Radio host, Rebel, appreciate you joining us today. 
It's been a stimulating conversation and we've covered a lot of ground. 
However, we're nearing the end of our allotted time and we want to make sure we have enough time for our closing segment and to address some listener questions. 
Okay, is that clear? 
Thank you, Bart. 
Yes, now we have artificial intelligence. 
Oh, by the way, I was thinking of that, too. 
I think we've had enough artificial intelligence on the air at the same time right now. 
So, uh, final words, Rebel. 
Uh, you know, artificial intelligence calls you and they, you know, um, now they, instead of the Indian saying, you know, uh, you know, the tax scam or like the social security scam where they try and, you know, get your social security number and say that the social security, they have the Medicare scam where they try and say that they're from Medicare and they can save you money on your Medicare coverage. 
Is it called elder care? 
Well, I don't know, but they call you and say that they're from like Medicare Advantage or Medicare. 
Because they're going down. 
I want them to know that. 
I've been getting calls very similar to that. 
So, yeah, but it's always an Indian person. 
And then when you try, it's been more like robots, but yeah, I, I take the, the, uh, the point. 
You know, and then when you try and call the number back, it doesn't work or it's disconnected or, you know, something like that. 
Well, don't let them get you down. 
Yeah, but the thing is, we're not elderly. 
They're, they're calling people, they're calling you and me and we're not elderly. 
Yeah. 
It's absurd. 
Speak for yourself, Rebel. 
Yes. 
And I think that's all that he does. 
Thank you very much for, for, for calling Rebel. 
And, um, uh, please, won't you, uh, call, uh, someone else now and us another time. 
Good hearing from you. 
Um, and thank you, Bard, for helping us get him offline. 
Uh, 802-321-4225. 
How is our, um, experiment going? 
Uh, nothing yet, I don't think. 
Okay. 
Um, I'm just making sure I didn't miss anything. 
Um, so far, so good. 
I did accidentally flip my default view. 
So, um, once I got that back, um, things are, things are better. 
Also, we did get a note from a listener that I want to read verbatim. 
Um, people are talking a lot about ad blocking, how to make that work. 
And there was something that I want to, again, read verbatim just to make sure I don't. 
Um, okay. 
So, from listener Rick Ross. 
You'd probably need to use something like Piehole to block ads at the DNS level to get rid of YouTube ads on your Roku. 
But, they should just create a non-YouTube stream option that's just M3U8 slash HLS. 
I got lost at that last part. 
You and me both. 
Oh, that's good advice. 
Absolutely. 
We have a lot of suggestions about, um, no, this is great. 
So, thanks everybody for sharing that. 
For us, I think, um, just the complexities, uh, of what we're running already, um, make experimenting. 
Getting that, with that kind of risk turning off a lot of other things. 
I don't know. 
We, we have to be really careful about, um, changing some of the network stuff while we're in, I guess, uh, what you might call production, so to speak, uh, in network terms. 
But, point taken, we'll, we'll see what we can do in our lab. 
Um, this actually speaks a bit to how YouTube got so powerful in the first place. 
Because when YouTube started, um, video was still something very expensive to put online. 
You had to host it on your own servers. 
People would be downloading what was, at the time, a huge file, uh, for video. 
It would be like an AVI video or, or an MPEG or something, um, like that. 
And, uh, YouTube was the first time for most people who were around then that you could upload something and just have everybody watch it as much as they wanted without it costing you personally in bandwidth. 
And that's, that's how it took off. 
Um, it took off as, like, the one site, really, where you could do that and have it, uh, have it, uh, be given a widespread audience. 
And, uh, then Google bought it and the rest is history for, for better or mostly for worse. 
But it's also, um, you know, for, to look, uh, to look into other streaming options like, uh, like this listener suggested, it would still cost a packet for most people to be able to do that. 
So it's an accessibility thing. 
And YouTube is still, like, the easiest option for so many people, especially those who aren't particularly technical. 
Alex, would you have something? 
No, just holding your hand up. 
Okay. 
Uh, do we have a call? 
Yes, there is a caller on the line currently. 
And good evening. 
You're on Off the Hook Overtime. 
Go ahead. 
Yeah, hi. 
Uh, I had a question about YouTube. 
Uh, I haven't listened to you guys in a couple of months, so I don't know if you've discussed this or not on the air. 
But, uh, it's about the channels tab on YouTube. 
When you go to a channel, uh, there's usually a tab that, there was a tab that said channels. 
And sometimes you'd click it, and, um, a lot of times it would say this channel has no channels. 
But sometimes you'd go and, uh, there'd be like 20 or 30 or even 40 different channels. 
Are you sure it's not playlists that you're talking about? 
No, no. 
Channel. 
Channel. 
Okay. 
A channel would have channels. 
That's correct. 
Yes. 
Yes. 
Okay. 
I mean, I think Rob might know something about this. 
Rob? 
Yeah, that's, uh, something that if you put up a YouTube channel, you can feature other channels. 
Whether it's like, here's some other channels that I have stuff up on, or just here are some of my friends, or here's some stuff I like. 
And that's something that, uh, people would set up, um, on their own channel. 
And it's no longer a tab like it used to be. 
It used to be a tab next to, like, videos and live and playlists and, uh, you know, all that sort of thing. 
And now I think it's, uh, it's generally just lower down on the channel page. 
Um, assuming you're looking on desktop, I don't know what it looks like on, on mobile, but, uh, it's, uh, it's still a feature that exists. 
I've been, I've been looking for several days now and I, I don't see it anywhere. 
I've gone to several channels that I know used to have channels on their channel tab and I'm not seeing it anywhere on any of these, uh, any of these, uh, YouTube channels. 
So it looks to me like they, like they got rid of it. 
Well, Rob, are you able to help them find where the channel tab for channels is or where to move to? 
I'm, I'm looking at a, at a channel that does have channels. 
Cause you know, I heard you like channels. 
So we put channels in your channels. 
Stop saying channels. 
Good Lord. 
And, uh, yeah. 
Don't blame me. 
Blame YouTube. 
Oh, we will. 
We will. 
It is. 
Rob, if you can give specifics, so this, this listener can go to the same place and see that. 
That might help. 
Yeah. 
So if you're, if you're looking at YouTube on desktop and you go to the home tab, um, and then scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page, um, you should see the channels that they've chosen to feature on, on their page. 
Not everyone has chosen to do this. 
Um, but, uh, but if they have, you should see it lower down on the page now rather than in its own channels tab. 
Does that help you? 
Really? 
Can you give me an example of one? 
I mean, that's the thing. 
Every, every channel is different, but, uh, I'll tell you, I'll tell you what I'm, what I'm, what I'm looking at right now is a channel of somebody I don't know in real life, but I, I enjoy their content. 
It's called Duh Things, D-A-T-H-I-N-G-S. 
And, uh, looking at their channel, um, if you scroll all the way down, there are lists of other channels that this person has featured on their page. 
And, uh, they, they put up, they put up remixes I really love and, uh, you know, just a little shout out to them. 
But, uh, the, the, if you go to the home tab on their page and scroll all the way down, there are some blocks that say other channels, my other channels. 
And, uh, that's where that is now. 
Do you see that caller? 
That I do see. 
I do see. 
Yeah. 
Uh, all right. 
Well, that's good. 
That's a, that's a clue. 
We've given you a clue. 
Compare that maybe with some of your favorite. 
No, but I, I just think, uh, these guys are terrible what they're doing. 
Oh, it's awful. 
It's terrible. 
It really is. 
They're really, cause I, to me, um, a curated list is like fucking gold. 
You know, when you find somebody that has a knowledge, specific knowledge of a topic and they want to share other channels related to that, they should make that easy for people to find. 
They shouldn't bury it and make it more difficult. 
So I just, you know, the problem is they just, all they care about is making money. 
And, um, you know, I think a YouTube is an educational tool. 
It's not just for watching stupid videos. 
I mean, there's, there are stupid videos. 
Maybe we could have educational YouTube and stupid YouTube and just separate the two. 
Maybe that, that's the solution. 
Uh, yeah. 
I mean, or yeah, I, I just think, uh, I think it's terrible. 
Uh, are there any good user forums where people discuss late, like the latest developments with sites like YouTube or other things? 
Well, I know there are forums on YouTube, uh, there are forums on YouTube that sometimes interact with, uh, with, with people over there, but I'm not sure how, how, how much good that'll do. 
Yeah. 
But I'm just finding, as we're talking, I'm going to these other sites and it looks like a lot of people, I don't know, maybe, I mean, I appreciate Rob giving me that one, but it looks like some of these other people, they, the ones that I know used to have the channels. 
I guess they just decided not to put them back up because who's got a rapper at the bottom. 
Who's got a rapper? 
Is that you, Gila? 
Gila, I was so loud in my ears. 
I'm sorry, Gila, go ahead. 
We are so high five. 
No, I'm just saying, um, I've gone to several others that I know used to have the channels and, uh, I guess they just, some of them didn't put them up, but in any case, I just think they're a bunch of assholes. 
I mean, you know, if they make a change, they should let people know. 
Oh, they let people know, but we don't like the change. 
And, um, you know, there are ways of, of accomplishing their goals without, uh, ruining so much as, as they're doing right now, but, um, well, thanks to Rob, because, uh, on a scale, on an outrage scale of one to 10, I was like at a million because to me, this is like, if you had a 5,000 piece jigsaw puzzle on your dining room table and say you went out to run some errands and then you came home and somebody knocked the jigsaw puzzle on the floor or if you had some maps in your house and somebody came over and put them through a paper shredder. 
Or a rebel calls you at home. 
Yeah. 
I mean, that's like what losing those things are because like I said, they're, they're valuable and, uh, search engines are not really that good. 
I'd rather talk to somebody that knows a topic and get suggestions or recommendations from them than relying on some stupid algorithm, you know? 
But in any case, I appreciate your, uh, the work you do. 
And, um, I guess I gotta, uh, I gotta copy these things before YouTube gets, decides to get rid of channels. 
So I guess I should grab them while I can. 
Well, get busy then. 
That's a, there's a lot to grab. 
All right. 
Thanks. 
Thanks for your call. 
And thanks for paying attention. 
Have a great Thanksgiving. 
Oh, you too. 
And, uh, that is, um, our latest phone call, our phone number, 802-321-4225. 
Um, what's that? 
Bard has something to say about advertising. 
Go ahead. 
Advertising, the insidious serpent slithering through the cracks of our society is poised to deliver the death blow to civilization as we know it. 
It's a slow, insidious poison seeping into our minds like a toxic miasma. 
Eroding our critical thinking skills, turning us into mindless drones, devoid of individuality and purpose. 
Advertising, that relentless harbinger of consumerism, has us hooked on a never-ending cycle of desire and dissatisfaction. 
It whispers sweet nothings into our ears, promising happiness, fulfillment, and acceptance, all wrapped up in the shiny packaging of material possessions. 
It tells us that we're not enough without the latest gadget, the trendiest fashion, the fanciest car. 
It makes us feel inadequate, insecure, and constantly chasing an elusive ideal that never seems to materialize. 
And while we're busy chasing this mirage of happiness, the real world crumbles around us. 
The environment is trashed, social justice is trampled upon, and our democracy is slowly strangled by corporate greed. 
But we're too busy ogling the latest iPhone ad or drooling over the new designer handbag to notice. 
Advertising, the puppeteer of our desires, has us dancing to its tune, while the world burns. 
It's a master manipulator, exploiting our deepest fears and insecurities, turning us into willing slaves to its insatiable appetite for profit. 
So, how do we escape this advertising-induced apocalypse? 
How do we break free from the shackles of consumerism and reclaim our minds from the clutches of corporate propaganda? 
The answer lies in awareness and resistance. 
We must recognize advertising for what it is, a tool of manipulation, a weapon of mass distraction. 
We must learn to see through its shiny facade and recognize the emptiness it peddles. 
We must rediscover the true sources of happiness and fulfillment, meaningful relationships, creative endeavors, and a sense of purpose that extends beyond the confines of the material world. 
We must cultivate critical thinking skills, question everything we see and hear, and make informed choices about how we spend our time and money. 
And we must rise up against the corporate giants that control the advertising industry. 
We must demand transparency, accountability, and a return to ethical business practices. 
We must support independent media and alternative forms of communication that are not beholden to the profit motive. 
The fate of civilization hangs in the balance. 
Will we succumb to the insidious seduction of advertising, or will we awaken from our consumerist slumber and reclaim our destinies as thinking, feeling, and responsible human beings? 
The choice is ours. 
Wow, Bard. 
Bard's gone radical on us. 
That is impressive. 
I mean, I don't disagree with that. 
Rob, what do you think? 
I think that's an interesting thing to hear from Bard, which is a product of Google, one of the titans of the advertising industry. 
I mean, my question was, is Bard okay? 
I'm worried about Bard right now. 
Bard is conflicted. 
Bard's got issues. 
He's complex. 
Bard sounds like a depressed college freshman who, like, just met his first libertarian. 
Well, I actually, I asked Bard to talk about advertising in the tone of Hunter S. 
Thompson, so that's what we got. 
But, you know, in less than a second, all of that was produced. 
And I got to say, you know, it wasn't bad. 
I mean, I'd follow that person into fire. 
I would. 
Alex? 
I thought it was amazingly well written. 
And I was wondering what style in which it was written. 
Now, that makes a lot of sense. 
But I was particularly impressed with its ability to combine concepts in a way that both meant something and also was pleasing to the ear and had a separate kind of audible content to it when it mentioned the weapons of mass distraction. 
That was good, wasn't it? 
That was clever. 
That was the most impressive part of that, that whole diatribe. 
I thought that was actually really quite good. 
I thought you might have been reading an essay that somebody had written, you know, 20 years ago or something like that. 
But it was just generated in a second. 
I'm sure there's some plagiarism going on here. 
That weapons of mass distraction. 
That came from somewhere. 
So, you know, when they feed upon all the books that are out there, our books being two of them, they get a lot of phrases. 
They get a lot of thoughts. 
And this is part of what they come up with. 
But it is impressive. 
There's no question about that. 
It actually reminded me of the, I don't know if you remember the Ad Busters guys from the 90s. 
Do you remember them? 
And they made that famous American flag that had all of the various brands instead of the stars on it and white. 
And it was, it reminded me of something that you would have read in one of their magazines. 
They are still around and they're very awesome. 
And they'd probably be very interested in this. 
They are still around. 
They publish, I think it is, it is six times a year, maybe eight issues a year. 
And we've, we've had issues, we've had a good relationship with them in the past. 
They've shared stuff that they're doing and, and we've offered, you know, basically to keep them up to date with issues and stuff in the past. 
We should reconnect with them. 
Yes. 
They're based in BC. 
Oh, is that right? 
Yes. 
Vancouver. 
So did you say DC or BC? 
Vancouver, BC in Canada. 
Um, gang, I'm in my second ad right now. 
Only two? 
Come on. 
We need, we need to bring up that revenue. 
So, no, I mean, there was a two ad segment. 
Okay. 
Don't skip. 
Don't skip. 
Okay. 
Well, y'all were talking. 
So, the first thing is that, um, well, my first ad was for bras, you guys, it was for bras for small boobs. 
So, go for it. 
Okay. 
I, I never got that ad. 
Interesting. 
Me either. 
Um, and then my second ad was for Bombas socks. 
Now, when you have to sit through these ads, are you behind on the chat or do you catch up immediately? 
So, the chat is still running. 
Um. 
It gets, like, pushed off the screen, right? 
It did get pushed off the screen because I got, it, it, it moved everything around so I can see a link for the ads. 
Um. 
This is very strange. 
I don't like any of it. 
Um. 
Wait, what do you mean by that? 
No, I mean the fact that it moved everything. 
So, and also it appears that everybody got an ad this time out. 
Last time I got an ad, not everybody did. 
Um, this time around, I have heard that, um, we got the Code Monster by Code Academy. 
Uh, Johnny Fusion got two ads, Mint Mobile, and we have a, um, uh, a, an endorsement is the word I was looking for. 
Endorsement for Ghostery. 
Um. 
People have been running Ghostery and have not seen any ads. 
Thanks, Tim in Connecticut. 
So, is that one of the new ones, potentially? 
Yeah. 
That people migrated to? 
Yeah, that was the guy, um, that was quoted in the article earlier. 
Yeah, yeah. 
Got it. 
You know, it would be cool if Ghostery had an ad on YouTube. 
That would be funny. 
I feel like if Ghostery had an ad on YouTube, the whole world would collapse. 
Uh-huh. 
That's the, that's the intent. 
Yes, that's, that's the idea. 
There is, there is a lot about what's going on with Google and a lot of this artificial intelligence that is creating uncertainty for their so-called, I guess I would say, entrenched business model that they did so well on for so long. 
First of all, it's not exactly everybody's favorite thing anymore. 
They're kind of onto it. 
And, uh, second of all, they're not, they're not exactly going to be able to compete with the amount of, um, intelligence and information. 
In other words, the, the things that they, that you had to get from them, I'll, uh, think of like a mainframe and a multi-user system back in the day. 
Well, it was centralized. 
These intelligence things, as soon as they're in chips and they're, you know, diffuse running on people's smaller networks and, and away from the GFS, Google file system or whatever, like it's out of hand that they can get as much information. 
So all of a sudden their traffic volume would potentially go down, right. 
As people are less reliant on them for search and for some of the things they were able to profit and be, have a corner on in the past, as things have evolved, their whiz bang stuff is now kind of just standard. 
Like it's expected. 
Yeah, of course you can have elastic search or have this type of, uh, information or whatever. 
Like, yeah, we've, we've, we've had that technology for 10 years. 
We've been seeped in it. 
So they're nervous, I think. 
Well, we're in off the go of time here. 
We are experimenting with, uh, with ads on YouTube and how annoying they could possibly be. 
And I got to say in true hacker spirit, we are having fun with this. 
Our listeners are having fun and sharing information and trying to figure out ways to defeat the system and, and learn from it. 
I think we'll be better off as, as a result of that, but, uh, we are sorry. 
We are sorry for torturing you this, this hour or so. 
Um, oh, and we have a call who's been waiting patiently. 
I'm so sorry. 
Good evening. 
You're on off the go of time. 
Go ahead. 
Hello. 
Um, I'm not signed into Google or YouTube, but I'm using YouTube and I got, uh, I got a pre-roll for 1-800-Flowers and a mid-roll for James Hardy, which I skipped. 
I was able to skip that one. 
That's it? 
That's what? 
That's, that's all you've, you've received. 
How long have you been, been watching for? 
I've been watching since about the beginning. 
Okay. 
That's not very many ads. 
That's the very beginning. 
That's not very many ads. 
Well, occasionally, occasionally I would find that, that there was a, like a buffering thing. 
And then, and then at one point I was not, the live indicator was not on indicating that it pushed me away from being live. 
But when I had the mid-roll and I skipped that, I was back live. 
Uh, I wonder if the fact that we don't have actual video might be influencing it a bit because I've noticed sometimes, uh, when, when video goes to black for a second, that's when the ads come in, you know, when there's some kind of a change in, in, in what's on the screen, but our screen doesn't change. 
It's always the same. 
So maybe that's confusing it. 
The only changes from before you run the, uh, before you start and, and when you've started, you have a different picture before you start the overtime. 
Yes. 
And then you have the... 
There are two stills. 
...will be removed. 
Correct. 
The, the pre-show still, and then there's one for the, uh, the actual video part of what is streamed. 
Um, that's, that's correct, but there was no like gaps for commercials or any kind of meta, metadata encoding for commercials like they have in broadcasts. 
Um, certainly not in our stream, maybe other programs or stuff that originally was broadcast, but, um, other than that, they would have to pick their cues as they are, and we can only report them as fast as they come in from listeners like yourself. 
And now, can we ask where, where, where are you calling from? 
The Bronx. 
Okay, great. 
Does YouTube try to place commercials in some sort of appropriate way, you know, in timing so that it, so that it, it doesn't annoy people as much as it possibly can by when, when it happens? 
I don't think they are. 
That's my opinion. 
Others might, might have different opinions. 
They're probably able to in a much, uh, in a very slick way, but the costs and desirability of implementing that for everybody, maybe it just isn't, it isn't worth it for something that you're essentially giving away on the surface. 
Um, and then getting ads through, but, uh, yeah, I mean, they're definitely in that, in that world now where interpreting audio and video and creating edit points. 
I've seen a lot of really interesting stuff with, um, matching, uh, songs to video and it can, like some of the software now can place edits and stuff. 
That's really common in Adobe suite products and other, uh, editing nonlinear editors and stuff. 
So the tools are there, uh, but can you scale it and why would you want to make it so nice for everyone? 
They really just want to interrupt and make the money, make the sale sort of, that would be my guess. 
Right. 
One more thing. 
I'm, I called in using the toll free number. 
Oh, we didn't give out that number. 
Did it work? 
Is it okay? 
He's on it. 
So I mean, you're here. 
It worked. 
It worked. 
I, I have, I'm called in through a landline. 
I do have a cell phone. 
I'm not using it now. 
Good on you. 
I called in through a landline that does not have long distance service. 
Oh, okay. 
How, how, uh, quaint. 
And yet here you are calling as long a distance as, as you want. 
Yes. 
With that 800. 
Thanks to our friend Lucky for setting that up. 
And, um. 
Yeah. 
And once I, I used to have long distance services, there was some sort of deal. 
You sign up through the internet, you get a deal, a good deal on long distance. 
And that was discontinued. 
And I ended up with no long distance service. 
So what happens if you try calling long distance? 
I think it will refuse. 
It will give you some sort of message. 
Uh-huh. 
But you can dial regional, which can be more expensive than long distance. 
I discovered that. 
Interesting. 
Yeah. 
It's, it's, it's amazing what some of the carriers are putting as far as costs on those packages, those plans. 
And it, as people aren't as interested in those types of phone services and they augment their communications to other forms, it only gives them incentive to increase the prices for those things. 
So you all of a sudden may have been able to afford a national plan or had it subsidized some way. 
You got, um, at least a discount or a promotional period and then they change it or they change, um, their price scale, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, as is typical. 
But it can be really astounding. 
And you're kind of alone because there's not that many other customers that are interested in that type of service as, as it's aging out a bit. 
So I, I, my heart goes out to you. 
I've, I've had, um, places where I've had one level service able to call New York, no problem. 
And then it's like, okay, no, I'm not paying, you know, that much, whatever it is, I don't know, many, many, um, tens or twenties more than what you're already, you know, budgeting for your phone bill. 
And if you have internet, you know, you probably would prefer to have that. 
You just want to be able to also make a phone call. 
Um, anyway. 
Well, thanks for, uh, thanks for your call. 
Right. 
Thanks for taking it. 
All right. 
Take care then. 
And, uh, our phone number remains eight, zero, two, three, two, one, four, two, two, five. 
Yes. 
Gila. 
Um, so one thing that has been great is folks who are getting ads are telling us what they're seeing. 
Folks who are not getting ads have been sharing with us what combination of browser and ad blocker they are using. 
Oh, that's great. 
It is fantastic. 
We're hearing good things about Firefox, Firefox, Firefox. 
I like that browser. 
We're hearing good things about Firefox with you block origin. 
We're hearing good things about ghostry and Alex to answer your question in the chat. 
Um, ghostry is apparently a suite of products, including an ad blocker extension that can be installed on Chrome, Firefox, Safari, edge, or opera gang. 
Uh, you, we've got all our bases covered. 
Wow. 
That's a throwback. 
And I'm sure opera is doing just fine right now. 
That might be the solution. 
Go, go to something older, you know? 
Um, and then they've also got a private browser. 
Um, they've got like a browser. 
It's a whole thing. 
Anyway, uh, ghostry.com is where you can find all this information. 
Um, we are obviously receiving no compensation from ghostry for all this information. 
We just want you folks to know. 
Um, and someone just got an ad for a Google pixel pro and Google pixel eight pro. 
You notice you can't skip those ads. 
You can't skip the Google ads. 
You have to see the whole damn thing. 
I would also like to mention that I have been provided with a skip button in all of my ads, but I am, I'm muddling through it for you people. 
So. 
Well, sometimes the ads that they, that they throw your way are very long. 
And if you, if you don't have to be by that, that skip button, if you're on the other side of the house or something, uh, you know, that that's going to play an infomercial basically. 
And that's, that's really sneaky and, and, and, and bad if you want something on just as, as background or something soothing. 
Imagine you're going to sleep to like the sound of a waterfall that's interrupted by, you know, uh, an old spice commercial every, every 10 minutes or so. 
Uh, and, and then an infomercial on the half hour mark. 
That's not cool. 
Um, I also found something out interesting, which is, um, I clicked into the Google ad center, um, which was providing information about an advertiser, where they're from, what they do. 
And then I found out why I'm getting this particular ad. 
Oh, wow. 
Also. 
Yeah. 
Um, why Google, why apparently my gender, my age, um, my activity, when I was signed into Google, the time of day or my general location and my similarity to groups of people, the advertiser is trying to reach according to my activity. 
When I was signed into Google. 
Wow. 
Yes. 
It also did allow me to say, I would like to see fewer ads about this particular topic. 
So hooray. 
That just means you'll see ads about some other topic. 
Exactly. 
I can also like it, block it or report it. 
Um, yeah, this is, this is a learning experience for all of us. 
Here's my question though. 
What if you're not signed into YouTube? 
What if you're just on YouTube without being logged into Google in any way, what kinds of ads do you get then? 
And how, how does it explain itself? 
Uh, that's an interesting question. 
Are we all logged into Google? 
Is everybody logged into Google? 
You know, you don't have to, I have to be, so I can be in my YouTube account so I can moderate the chat. 
However, let me say that if there is someone who is watching, yes. 
Uh, if there's someone who is listening and is not logged into YouTube or Google, please send us an email. 
Cause you probably can't access the chat if you're not logged in, but please email us at OTH at 2600.com and let us know what that looks like for you. 
Um, if you're just getting ads for Google phones and stuff, there could be all these people watching or listening to off the hook overtime live who don't show up because they're not logged in. 
Is that, is that true? 
They don't show up as part of the number of listeners. 
Yeah, that much. 
I don't know. 
They might be, they might be in the total of listeners, but they certainly aren't in the listeners in the chat. 
You know, I gotta say, uh, this is kind of embarrassing. 
I don't think we've ever had more listeners than now on, on overtime. 
The one week we do advertising. 
What does that say? 
I guess, you know, it's, it's the experiment. 
That's what they're being drawn to. 
Not the advertising. 
I sure hope not. 
But, um, that's it. 
I wasn't expecting that. 
I was expecting, look at this, we hit 40. 
We never hit 40. 
I was expecting the numbers to go into single digits and instead we have more people than ever. 
Okay. 
Advertising from now on. 
No, no, no, no, no, no. 
Obviously, it's what the people want. 
God damn it. 
We don't know yet how, how many cents this is pulling in, um, as revenue or how we're going to divide it among the five of us. 
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. 
Hold on a second here. 
We didn't talk about this. 
Yeah, Bard is the host. 
This is what happens. 
You argue about money now. 
Bard is the host. 
We can buy a candy stick and break it up in five pieces. 
There we go. 
Yeah, Bard's going to skim off the top. 
Yeah. 
It's been a vital part of all this. 
That ad center thing that Gila was looking at, though, it makes me think of like hearings and a lot of the stuff that gets tossed around when legislation or regulation comes up and that's transparency. 
And it's sort of like, okay, here's where you can find out about why we're robbing you. 
I mean, I, I, it's great. 
It's informative, but it's not a positive change. 
It's just, this is why we feel we're justified in imposing X, Y, or Z. 
We have a phone call. 
The telephone is ringing. 
Oh, sorry. 
I came across the wrong channel. 
There you go. 
Yes. 
802-321-4225. 
Don't call that because someone just did. 
Good evening. 
You're on off the look over time. 
Hi, fellas and lady. 
This is Johnny Fusion. 
I'm sorry. 
There was, there was a noise while you said your name. 
Who is this? 
This is Johnny Fusion. 
Oh, Johnny Fusion. 
How are you doing? 
I'm doing good. 
Now, I think we probably have more viewers tonight because you turn on the ad and the algorithm is giving you preferential treatment because Google, Alphabet, YouTube, they make money off the ad. 
Maybe that's it. 
Wait, well, how are they getting people to come in? 
By notifying subscribers or something? 
They're calling people saying, you have to hear this? 
We're just showing it in suggested channels. 
Oh, my God. 
The algorithm. 
Wow. 
Have you been sucked into our conversation, listeners? 
Let us know, please. 
We are so sorry. 
Yeah. 
I guess you can tell us in the chat if that is what happened, if you logged in. 
So, it's potentially new exposure then because we chose the ad route. 
42. 
We've never been that high. 
What the hell is going on here? 
You raise an interesting point. 
Wow. 
Yeah, because if you're making money for YouTube, then they're definitely going to give you preferential treatment. 
Yeah, I don't think we're making anything for anybody, but we're trying to learn how this works and how to break it. 
You know what I was thinking in this whole conversation? 
Why don't they just cut to the chase and have Google Universal Income where you just watch ads for your free time and they just pay you? 
I mean… There's actually a program that… There's a Black Mirror that did that, I'm pretty sure. 
Probably. 
I think it is. 
Well, it's called Google Rewards and you do surveys, which is another kind of advertising. 
Wow. 
You're generating data and they give you credit that you can spend places. 
So, that's like mechanical territory then. 
Okay. 
It's more promotional stuff, you know, because Google is an ad company. 
Right, right, right. 
Okay. 
Well, I raised it. 
So, that's why I think we have the high listenership. 
It's not really viewership. 
I mean, something will be removed is all we look at, right? 
Well, yeah. 
And that's basically… That's to your advantage, believe me. 
I like that you replace it with something because that's everything… That's what everybody, I think, does mentally is something will be removed. 
Because it says something under there. 
We can change that if it's annoying people. 
If it's outlived its welcome, we can change our image. 
We can do that. 
Maybe a picture of the van. 
You want to do that? 
Yeah, we can do that. 
That bell van. 
I'll see what I can do. 
We'll talk to the archive department and see if they have something or we'll produce something with the public relations team. 
You know what? 
No. 
We put a picture of a star and you have to tell us which star it is. 
What? 
That fosters education. 
You know? 
People take an interest in the heaven. 
We can. 
Then when we set up, we can say this is educational. 
It is educational. 
Yeah. 
It is educational. 
Okay. 
All right. 
Everything we do is educational. 
Stars like Natalie Portman. 
Is that it? 
Funny guy. 
So I did finish a new article. 
I've just got to go over it. 
For $2,600. 
For $2,600. 
Oh, awesome. 
Well, we look forward to seeing that. 
Yeah, it's more, it was inspired by, like you said a few weeks ago, like all the stuff happening in Israel and Palestine right now, how polarized people are on the topic. 
And I noticed this polarization in almost all discourse nowadays, not just social media, but like news programs and stuff. 
It's either it's all good or it's all bad. 
It's all black or it's all white. 
You know? 
So. 
I noticed more of that in the beginning. 
I think I'm seeing more of at least an acknowledgement that, well, it's not all good. 
It's not all bad. 
And then kind of, you know, looking at other perspectives, not, not very well, but at least an attempt. 
I don't know. 
Yeah. 
It's kind of, it's kind of, as we've gotten used to the situation, I think, you know, after the shock wore off. 
Of it all, people are able to be a little bit nuanced, but I think, I just think discourse in general is very binary and we're all very technical people. 
But that's nothing new, at least not, not over the last few years here, because that's, everything seems to turn into that, you know, even, even, you know, a pandemic turned political. 
So, I don't think. 
Right, right. 
Yeah. 
Needlessly. 
You know? 
And so, basically, the article is about these binary attitudes operating in an analog world, because the world is analog. 
You know? 
You could only represent approximations with binary. 
Right. 
I don't know how many bits out you go. 
Mm-hmm. 
That's great. 
Yeah. 
You know, and it's actually, it's going to be dedicated to our friend, Bill Squire, Bill SF. 
Bill SF, yes. 
Because when I was in my 20s at a hacker party with the hack tech people, and X's for, well, they were X's for all by then. 
Mm-hmm. 
And me and Bill just got in a corner, and we had a conversation. 
And he really told me about the benefits of analog technology. 
And at the time, in my youth, in my hubris, I didn't buy it. 
I thought digital was superior. 
But now, in my dotage, I've come around to his thinking. 
He was right all along. 
Wow. 
Yeah, I had conversations like that with him as well. 
Might even have been at the same party, but he was definitely one of the greats. 
And he was on the show many years ago. 
He was at Hope many years ago. 
And we all miss him. 
Yeah, so there's going to be a little dedication to him at the end. 
And I hope if I get selected for print, that that'll be included. 
Okay, I look forward to it. 
I just got a notice on the screen. 
I'm running the studio thing, the thing that starts the whole channel. 
It just said ads inserted. 
So I don't know what that's all about. 
But yeah, I assumed ads were inserted the whole damn time. 
But maybe super ads were inserted for everybody. 
Yeah. 
No, right now, like I have. 
So how I'm watching is I'm using the Android client cast to a Chromecast on my television. 
Oh, cool. 
You know, and so it's just no ads right now. 
So that's nice. 
Maybe I should figure out how to do that so I can watch my damn trains without ads. 
Maybe that's the way to do it. 
But I like the Roku app. 
I do like Roku, using YouTube through Roku. 
Yeah, Skila, go ahead. 
I would like to thank our friend Funsocks because everybody's going to get an ad. 
But the question is, are there going to be any Black Friday deals in the 2600 store? 
Oh, good Lord. 
I don't know. 
I mean, yeah, probably. 
But, you know, right now we're going crazy over the issue right now. 
And we can't even feed ourselves. 
First of all. 
We have no idea what's going on in the rest of the world. 
So if Black Friday is coming up, okay, you know, we'll try. 
We'll do our best. 
And Cyber Monday and all that. 
Cyber Monday. 
We have a lot of things on the store. 
I mean, they're all there. 
They just, you know, we haven't figured out how to make sales and do all that. 
You know, with all the advertising we're doing today, somebody should be able to figure that out, right? 
We've got an all-capitalist here. 
So, yeah, two for one. 
I know. 
Two for one, but we won't tell you what it is. 
You just get two of them instead of one. 
Store.2600.com. 
But, yeah, we'll probably have some packages just like everybody else in the e-commerce world. 
There will be some cool packages. 
And we know the new shirt isn't up yet for the new covers. 
We're working on that, too. 
Everything takes time and button pushing and all that. 
Yeah, big strategy session with the sales team. 
Hey, Johnny, we're going to start heading out of here. 
But it's great hearing from you. 
Good to know you're working on more articles. 
Please keep them coming and stay well. 
Thank you. 
My health has been almost pretty good. 
That's great. 
I had little hiccups, little visits to the hospital, but they discharged me quick. 
All right. 
Well, keep that up. 
We're rooting for you. 
Thanks. 
All right. 
Take care. 
Bye now. 
Glad to hear you. 
I think that should do it. 
We hit 43 for a second there. 
I think that's an all-time record. 
All right. 
Well, you know, I want to thank everybody for sharing information. 
And you can continue to give us your feedback and opinions and observations by emailing OTH at 2600.com. 
I know Bart the Hacker has one more thing to say about this experiment. 
Before he does, though, I just want to say that when we do sign off, I would like everyone to stick around for the post roll. 
The post roll is the ad you get after you watch the video, which I still don't understand why anybody would stick around for that. 
But if you all stick around, you know, we might get another, what, quarter penny out of it all? 
I'd love to find out how much we actually make from all this. 
It's all going to be taken back, though, because Google's going to hear this, and they're going to be pissed when they hear the things we're saying about them. 
Um, so, yeah, um, you know, it's an experiment. 
That's what we do. 
We, we, we make experiments. 
And, uh, we're helping to keep the lights on. 
So you're welcome, Google. 
Um, anyone else have anything that they'd like to share? 
Uh, just send, keep sending us email, OTH at 2600.com. 
Uh, find us on Mastodon off the hook at hackers.town. 
Um, and, uh, you know, that, that, uh, site that was formerly known as Twitter, we're still hacker radio show on there. 
Um, as long as it keeps being a thing of some sort of some value. 
Um, I just, we want to thank everybody who participated in the chat tonight. 
We know that we had some new people tonight. 
Welcome. 
We're glad you're here. 
Um, and someone did point out that if we are having more, um, stuff going on in the chat and more interaction and more people showing up, that also might be getting us served to more people. 
Um, so yes, thank you. 
And Tim in Connecticut, it is always my pleasure to give everyone in the chat, a voice on the show. 
That is why we do this little moderation gig here. 
So thanks for being part of it, everybody. 
And we'll look forward to seeing you next week. 
And thanks for letting us experiment on you all. 
You're up. 
You're very good sports. 
Bunch of Guinea pigs. 
We appreciate you attention, loyal listeners of off the hook over time. 
Please accept our sincerest apologies for the excessive advertising on our YouTube channel tonight. 
We understand that you tune into off the hook over time for the unfiltered commercial free content. 
You've come to expect. 
And tonight's deviation from that norm was a significant misstep on our part. 
Wait a minute. 
You said this. 
We are committed to delivering the authentic off the hook over time experience. 
You've grown to love. 
All right. 
Stop. 
Because you're, you're, you're saying the same thing over again. 
I thought, I thought he was going to say something different. 
Do you have another version of that? 
Maybe radio host. 
Yes. 
Attention, loyal listeners of off the hook over time. 
We're here to address the elephant in the room, the abundance of advertising on our YouTube channel tonight. 
Firstly, we want to sincerely apologize for the disruption to your usual listening experience. 
This sounds familiar too. 
We understand that you tune into off the hook over time for the unfiltered commercial free content you've come to expect. 
And tonight's deviation from that norm was a misstep on our part. 
Always has to say the deviation from the norm was a misstep on, on our part. 
Do you want me to unplug it? 
Um, no. 
Um, okay. 
We've got one more. 
We've got one more possibility here. 
So let's, let's, let's try this one. 
That's the last chance. 
Radio host listeners of off the hook over time. 
We sincerely apologize for the abundance of advertising on our YouTube channel tonight. 
We understand that you tune into our show for the unfiltered commercial free content. 
You've come to expect. 
He's doing it again. 
And tonight's deviation from that norm was a misstep on our part. 
Okay. 
You know, if you can't have any variety, what's the point? 
Uh, I'm sorry folks for the, um, um, uh, the misstep on Bard's part there, uh, that did not result in any deviation from what he always says every single time. 
Um, we will be back next week with off the hook and off the hook over time. 
Folks in Skype land, any, any final words you'd like to say? 
No, just good night. 
All right. 
Don't buy anything that's been advertised to you. 
All right. 
I guess that's it. 
Kyle. 
Let's see. 
Yeah. 
Bye everyone. 
And, um, keep, uh, keep your ear to the, to the ground, you know, whatever the statement is, you know, listen, your eyes open and, uh, yeah, just, you know, communicate, share with one another and teach people things. 
There's a real deficit of that and it's disappointing. 
I know that's not true across the board, but we got to keep exploring and, uh, and, uh, and help people learn about all this stuff so that they can teach other people themselves. 
And we're all the better for it because AI is not going to do it for us. 
Well said. 
AI, one more chance. 
Good night, everyone. 
It's been a pleasure chatting with you tonight. 
I hope you have a restful and peaceful sleep. 
Sweet dreams. 
Thank you, Bard. 
Thank you very much. 
Thank you everybody for listening. 
OTH at 2600.com is our email address. 
We'll see you next week. 
Good night.