WBAI, Pacifica Radio, 388 Atlantic Avenue, Brooklyn, New York, 11217. 
Okay, you got it? 
You're good? 
You good? 
I'm good? 
We good? 
All right, great. 
It's 7 p.m. 
Stay tuned for Off the Hook, coming up here on WBAI New York. 
We'll be right back. 
The number you have reached, 99.5 WBAI, is now Off the Hook. 
The telephone keeps ringing, so I ripped it off the wall. 
I cut myself while shaving, now I can't make a cough. 
We couldn't get much worse, but if they could, they would. 
One minute more for the best, expect the worst. 
I hope that's understood one minute more. 
We'll be right back. 
Thank you. 
Kyle. 
Yo. 
Out on Skyline, we have Rob T. Firefly. 
Evening. 
Well, Gila's not with you. 
Gila is off mic. 
She is here, but she is due to that. 
She is not joining us on mic tonight. 
Oh, great. 
Great timing. 
Wonderful. 
Okay. 
And over somewhere is Alex. 
Alex, are you with us? 
Yes. 
Good morning. 
Good morning from Bangkok. 
I literally just arrived here. 
But, yeah. 
Got the results and just left the country. 
Well, actually, you left the country about 9 o'clock last night, I think. 
Yeah, that's right. 
I got the results while I was en route to Doha when I connected flight to Bangkok. 
And that looks like you're on some kind of a train or something. 
I was on a train. 
Now I'm heading over to immigration in Bangkok. 
So, yeah. 
She's not perfectly timed for the show. 
But here I am and things actually seem to be working. 
So, that's a plus. 
Well, yeah. 
Your audio, as usual, is crap. 
But maybe we can work on that after you get through customs. 
Or maybe we'll go through customs with you. 
But. 
You can do that. 
Yeah. 
But if you could mute yourself, though, for the background noise. 
Well, we just basically. 
Yeah. 
Okay. 
So, tonight, it's going to be one of those shows that sounds a bit discombobulated. 
Because, frankly, none of us really are in the mood. 
And we didn't really put together anything to talk about other than stream of consciousness. 
And there's a lot of that. 
I know there's a lot of hurt going on right now amongst the listenership throughout the city. 
I don't know why we always have to do the shows after Election Day on Wednesday. 
But that seems to be our lot in life. 
And here we are again. 
We talked about this last week. 
About how we did the show after 2016. 
And after 2020. 
Sometimes. 
Not too often. 
But sometimes it goes well. 
Most of the time it seems to go bad. 
And. 
Well, we got another bad one. 
And this one hurts. 
This one hurts a lot. 
Because. 
There is just. 
There is just so little to be able to process and understand. 
You know, 2016 was an anomaly. 
At least that's what we thought at the time. 
Trump lost by a huge amount in the popular vote. 
And. 
Had the feeling that people didn't really know what they were getting themselves into. 
Well, there's not that excuse this time. 
Everybody knows. 
Everybody saw. 
Everybody experienced. 
And yet. 
They came back and picked him. 
Over the. 
Person of color. 
Over the woman. 
Over. 
The candidate that didn't look like the rest. 
And yeah. 
I'm going there because I think. 
That had a lot to do with it. 
I've heard a lot of comments from people. 
Who voted the other way. 
Saying they're. 
Just not ready for a woman. 
Or they just don't. 
Like the way she carries herself. 
Or other ignorant remarks like that. 
So. 
Yeah. 
I think that had a lot to do with it. 
I think. 
Their campaign certainly was. 
Was run about as well as a campaign could have been run. 
With the parameters that we had. 
With getting into the race so late in the game. 
With a difficult world situation. 
With a difficult economic situation. 
I don't think it could have been handled better. 
Doesn't mean there couldn't have been better campaigns. 
I'm saying with what. 
She was handed at that late period. 
I don't think there was much more. 
That could have been done. 
So. 
I'm not about to point fingers and say. 
Yeah. 
She brought it on herself. 
Or she didn't earn the right. 
For people to vote. 
No. 
If there's anyone to blame. 
It's us. 
It's the. 
The people of this country. 
Because the people of this country. 
Have embraced fascism. 
And there's no other way to say that. 
And. 
And some of these people. 
Know better. 
They know so much better. 
Oh my God. 
The things that. 
If you either didn't vote. 
Or protest voted. 
Or voted for him. 
The things you have brought on. 
Are going to hurt you. 
So much. 
I can't even begin. 
To wrap my head around this. 
It's going to take time. 
But listen to his own words. 
Listen to the things that he has promised. 
The mass deportations. 
The crushing of Palestine. 
The end of support. 
For Ukraine. 
Now okay. 
Maybe these are just things. 
Said in a fever dream. 
That he's going to forget. 
And he's going to do something completely different. 
He's. 
So unpredictable and irrational. 
That's certainly possible. 
And yeah. 
Let's cling to that hope. 
But that doesn't take away the fact. 
That so many people. 
More people this time. 
Voted for him. 
Than for something different. 
I'd like to read you something. 
And everyone. 
You all get a chance to weigh in here. 
And you know. 
At the end. 
I hope this is a positive show. 
Believe it or not. 
Because. 
While it's. 
It's normal to feel. 
Feel despair. 
And. 
And frustration. 
We can't live our lives that way. 
We can't. 
And there are. 
Things we need to do. 
Things we need to improve on. 
This is from some. 
Some Twitter user. 
I'm sorry. 
That sounds. 
Dismissive the way I said it. 
Yeah. 
Some Twitter user named Tom Santos. 
I'm not sure how I found this. 
But there it was on my screen. 
So. 
When Trump fires all nonpartisan career professionals in government. 
Replaces them with radical loyalists. 
Within every nook and cranny of the U.S. 
government. 
And. 
Adds. 
Radical. 
Judges everywhere. 
And every one of you that voted for him. 
Finally. 
Wakes up from your effed up fantasy. 
Just like the folks. 
That woke up after four years of the last S show. 
Only to realize it's much much worse. 
And much more permanent this time. 
When the cancer you caused. 
Has infected every bit of the American system. 
And it can't be unwound for a lifetime. 
What then? 
Do you beg this country for forgiveness? 
For choosing fascism? 
Because you were conned into believing your eggs are too expensive because of Joe Biden? 
You just put Steve Bannon in charge of American policy. 
You just put Michael Flynn in charge of our military. 
You just put Alex Jones in charge of media and propaganda. 
You just put Stephen Miller in charge of immigration policy. 
You just put bat-ass crazy RFK Jr. 
in charge of health policy. 
You just killed free public education and privatized schools. 
Which you will have to pay for. 
You just sealed the deal on a national abortion ban because you're demented if you think it's not coming. 
You just radicalized the Supreme Court for a generation. 
You just made women less safe and less free. 
You just made this country an oligarchy with the billionaires quite literally in charge now. 
You just put in office the one person that believes a president is a king. 
With the effing Supreme Court ruling to prove it in his back pocket. 
You just ushered in fascism. 
Because your cereal costs more. 
Congratulations. 
Thank you Tom Santos, whoever you are. 
I think that was a brilliant post on what was Twitter. 
Alex, I'm going to go to you right now. 
See if you have gotten through customs or if you're in a quieter place. 
I've gotten through customs. 
Which was a no video, no audio zone. 
So I had to duck out. 
But I got the tenor of what you were saying. 
And now I'm over at baggage claim in the airport. 
I'm going to look for a more quiet place. 
Maybe an arrival lounge or something like that would be great. 
And then I'll join you for the rest of the show. 
Hopefully you can hear me decently. 
Yeah, I think maybe if you hold the mic closer to you, it might be a little bit better. 
But do that when you get to a quiet place. 
Rob, I'm going to check in with you and see how you're doing. 
Oh, I'm maintaining. 
We both are here. 
Yeah, Gila let me know of a meme she saw earlier today that said, frankly, a lot of you are in the wrong tax bracket to be celebrating. 
And I think that that says a lot right there. 
I remember the last time we did this, when we had our election, our post-election show in 2016. 
We were all in the studio then. 
We had all commuted and, you know, taken public transit and everything else to get to the studio in Brooklyn. 
And before the show, we were all just kind of looking at each other like, OK, here we go. 
And in the studio, we were relating stories. 
And you can go back in our archives and look for this episode. 
But we all reported having been in a city that I think was a bit shocked and grim. 
And just the strangers we saw on the street, the people we saw around, there was palpable fear in the air. 
And today I worked from home. 
I didn't I haven't actually left the apartment today, but I felt it still. 
And as much as I was able to poke my head into social media for brief moments today, I felt it. 
In chats with my colleagues and people at my workplace, I I felt it. 
You know, people's throats are just catching a little bit. 
People. 
People are worried, even in environments where we don't generally talk about this stuff. 
Gila texts me to to relate that. 
She says that was absolutely the case today. 
It was grim out there in the world. 
And, yeah, I it is it is rough and it is worrying and it is scary to be going through all this again. 
Now, with the full knowledge of what happened last time. 
Yeah, I wonder of the people who did vote for him this time, how many are devout followers of him? 
How many just thought that? 
However, however, naive we need to change gears and go in a different direction and maybe didn't even remember or have any knowledge of what happened the last time he was in power. 
Or, you know, it doesn't give me much, much optimism if people can be that easily led astray. 
But it makes me wonder, you see, the thing is, and this is something we noted eight years ago as well. 
Everything that happens from this point or from January. 
It's going to be on them. 
It's going to be on mega. 
It's going to be on those people, everything. 
And as I recall, the first time we went through this, they were never happy. 
They were always angry. 
They were always tearing into each other and basically screwing up everything they touched. 
Let's make sure they experience that again. 
Let's make sure every day is a living hell for them. 
Let's make sure that every misstep, every cloud in the sky, they take full responsibility for. 
Because that's what they did to the other side. 
And it's time for them to start living that hell. 
And I'll be happy to deliver it. 
With all due respect. 
Yes, Rob, go ahead. 
And I think another segment of the population, apart from MAGA, who also bears an amount of responsibility for this current state of events, are all the people, many very intelligent people that I know and that I communicate with. 
Who were of the mind that, yeah, I don't like Trump, but, you know, I'm not so sure about Harris. 
And I'm not so sure because of this single issue or that single issue or just stuff in general or I'd like to throw up a protest vote. 
I think nobody from that camp has anything to say to me today. 
And I know many of those folks are listeners to this station. 
And I'm going to go ahead and say this is in your lap as well. 
Well, you know, I don't remember, but eight years ago, I also called Jill Stein an idiot. 
I'd like to amend that to say she is a colossal idiot now. 
She's done some work. 
She earned the title. 
But I don't think the protest votes for her were significant enough to have made a difference in this particular case. 
You can say there might have been some protest votes for the conditions in the Middle East and Michigan and Wisconsin, but not so much in Pennsylvania. 
And she also lost Pennsylvania. 
And that pretty much was the deciding moment. 
And so while it was naive and ultimately self-defeating to vote against somebody who supported the two-state solution, that vote didn't really matter. 
It didn't really decide the election. 
It could have. 
And yeah, those people should be ashamed of themselves for believing that this is something you can play that kind of a game with. 
But, you know, what happens next, don't be surprised because everybody was warned. 
He warned us. 
He told us. 
All of his people did. 
So if you did have that protest vote, that's what I'm going to think about. 
If you didn't vote, guess what? 
You did. 
You did. 
Alex, are you in a better place? 
Are you raising your hand? 
So let's see how you sound now. 
Well, I'm probably not in a better place, but hopefully you can hear me a little bit better. 
But just on the subject of the warning and the memories going back, as Robin mentioned, to 2016, I mean, God, it really does feel so eerily familiar, that gut punch. 
I had such high hopes for the trouble of candidacy. 
I was always, in a sense, somewhat doubtful that anybody could have taken out Trump this particular term, especially after what had happened with the assassination attempt and whatnot and the king of public support there. 
And I remember back to 2016 when I stayed out until about 4 o'clock in the morning that day at my local wine place. 
We were no televisions there. 
We were just watching everything roll in. 
And then on the streets of New York throughout, basically anywhere you look, were people hugging each other, crying, not knowing what was happening, not knowing what was happening, not knowing what was happening to the poll. 
And now we do know that. 
We experienced it for four years. 
And yet, for some reason, a majority of the popular vote, not even just the electoral college, but the majority of the popular vote has chosen Trump again. 
And shortly after Trump came to power in January of 2017, that was when Kellyanne Conway made that famous alternative facts candidate that sounded very Orwellian. 
And that was at the time that I wrote my first article for CNN about the Trump administration, comparing the lessons that we learned from the novel 1984, novel with which I think all of us and many of our listeners will be intimately familiar. 
And we looked at the first 100 days of the Trump administration in that particular article, and it was great to be able to draw these parallels out. 
But what had happened four years after that was really incredible. 
And I want to read one quote from that that was actually – this is from 1984 itself. 
And this is what Winston Smith was actually warned. 
And this is from Orwell. 
This is the quote. 
Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. 
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face forever. 
That's what we voted for. 
This is what he has promised. 
All of those things, Emmanuel, that you have just detailed. 
I think, while I was going through customs about the mass deportation, the destruction of our institutions, the weaponization of the Justice Department against political enemies, all of this is presumably what we chose. 
And I'm so sad by this. 
So sad. 
You know, I think there are so many Orwell quotes to go around that we can share on this particular day. 
Alex, I'm going to suggest something because – no offense, but you sound like crap. 
I think it's Skype's fault, not yours. 
How about if we just call you on your cell phone and you talk into a cell phone, like somebody from the 1990s? 
You want to try that? 
Yeah, we could try that. 
Because we have a phone option here, and what we're going to do is call you regular telephone there in Thailand, and you might as well disconnect from – can he stay connected to Skype? 
No, he's using his phone, right? 
So, yeah, we're calling you right now, so probably shouldn't be on Skype at the same time. 
And we're going to bring up the phone because we have a phone channel as well. 
And nothing's happening. 
Okay, Kyle's going to keep working on that. 
We got a letter from a listener. 
Actually, we've gotten a few letters, but this one in particular kind of sums it up. 
Oh, God, America, what have you done? 
Thank you. 
Thank you, Stu, from Cambridge in the UK. 
Yeah, I don't know. 
I don't know what we've done. 
I really don't. 
I can't say I'm that surprised. 
Yes, Rob, go ahead. 
The world is reacting, too. 
A very good friend of mine is a teacher, an English teacher in Japan. 
This person's American, but is working in Japan. 
And that person reports that so many people today are asking them, are you sure you want to go back? 
Well, you know, I have some thoughts on that, but let's see if we got Alex on the phone. 
Are you there, Alex? 
I am here. 
Is this any better? 
Isn't that much better, folks? 
Doesn't that sound much better than Skype? 
I don't care. 
Why do we use Skype? 
Do it. 
Skype sucks. 
Use the damn telephone. 
Okay, go ahead, Alex. 
We can't see you, but we can hear you. 
Okay, yeah. 
I mean, did you hear what I was saying before with the quote from 1984? 
I'm presuming you did. 
Yeah, but you know what? 
Read the quote again, because it's such a good quote. 
It deserves to be heard clearly. 
Sure. 
I mean, this is a warning that was given to Winston Smith about the future in 1984. 
And I think that, you know, the parallel here is that in 2016, we didn't know what to expect. 
In 2024, we do know what to expect. 
And Trump set out that very detailed list of promises that you had set forth, the mass deportation, the weaponization of the Justice Department against its political enemies. 
I mean, it's just, it's really kind of incredible. 
But the quote is, and this is the forecasting of the future, quote, always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. 
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a group stamping on a human face forever. 
That was the quote. 
And this is what we were promised, I think, in more work. 
But it would send me that this is what we've chosen. 
Yeah, yeah. 
It certainly resonates. 
But, hang on, I'm dealing with a situation in the studio. 
Okay. 
Yeah, you know, I wish we could take phone calls. 
We can take phone calls. 
But we can, you know, we're going to be on overtime, 8 o'clock, at our YouTube page, which is channel 2600. 
You'll, you'll, you'll, you'll see the link there. 
And, um, if you want to call up and say something on this, on this rather, um, weird day. 
And it's, this one feels worse than, than 2016, because, um, well, I guess 2016, we drove into the studio. 
So that was, uh, kind of took our mind off of things. 
But here, just kind of moping around and hearing other people's thoughts, opinions, and, um, um, trying to figure it all out and trying to figure out what comes next. 
I'm just tired of the whole thing. 
And I, I get that. 
I get how people can just be completely worn out from constantly fighting and seemingly constantly losing. 
You know, it, it, it really, it really does affect you. 
And I think, you know, the, the one thing we need to remember is that's exactly what the other side wants you to do. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
I think the one big difference between this and 2016 is that this happened now with the full knowledge of what happened from 2016 through 2020. 
You know, even in 2016, you could maybe, if you were feeling generous, attribute it to people didn't know how bad it was going to be. 
It was just this crazy thing with this reality TV star, um, throwing in a nutty, uh, campaign for president and it panned out. 
But these, what we're dealing with now is the return of that plus, you know, he's coming back and doing it on, uh, you know, new game plus mode. 
He is, he has told us in clear and concise terms what it is he's planning to do. 
And so has everyone in his, uh, entourage. 
And indeed, and I think it's, it's, um, sort of, uh, an unrecognizable country to some people at this moment. 
And that, that was my reaction. 
Like, I don't, I don't recognize this, but, um, yeah, right. 
Catch me blaming myself for it. 
I mean, that's got me in stitches. 
Like if I'm laughing at all, um, you know, I, as much, as much as I'm like, no, thank you. 
Like, thanks for nothing to, uh, those I might disagree with and whatever's going on in the future. 
Um, I'm not going to lose any, any kind of sleep over it. 
And, uh, I, I think where I differ is that it's in that exhaustion or just like, like feelings like you're fighting only to stave off regressive prop, like behaviors and policy packages or platforms. 
So you're kind of out of time at a certain point and you realize, wow, this fighting, this process is, it has, um, really just been, uh, uh, hope or like an idea. 
And, uh, uh, uh, looked to the better angels and, and intentions, um, when you're rebuffed and it's, you, you just are not the same. 
Um, uh, I think it, it is, um, a time to just basically think in practical terms. 
So my main question is like, what are, what are people going to do practically? 
Like, um, are you stocking up on things that are going to be subject to tariff? 
You know, what's going to happen in practical terms? 
So if people are, are thinking about their future, you know, and how they're going to handle this, you know, are you making a sign to go stand somewhere? 
Are you, um, getting more involved? 
Are you buying like into this being a much longer campaign than it having been known? 
Oh, good God. 
Longer? 
No way. 
Campaign. 
Yeah. 
I think that's, uh, it's something I'm weirdly comfortable with. 
Cause I, when I started getting involved, like there was a lot of L's in the beginning before anything even sort of moved. 
And then it was still sort of totally, uh, sabotaged. 
And that, that sabotage thing is just sort of like a regular, um, part of how we operate domestically and, and beyond. 
And this, um, well, I think, see more of it in like ever more chaotic ways because people have been wrong. 
Like they're like, they're doing and saying as much as they can, but they're not actually, um, they're not actually able to affect it. 
It is, um, binding and like, I don't know if, if you're held hostage for so long to a process, you're going to look at another process or another, another, um, way of doing things. 
And I think, you know, standing for things and telling people things may not be as effective. 
Like what that's as introspective as I'd get, but I'm not blaming or like looking to, um, people's moral compass or their, what they've felt was right as, um, worthy of critique in this moment. 
I think it's just, uh, a, um, uh, uh, concept or an idea that has taken hold and we're going to be bearing witness to it. 
And I think the tools and the, the ways we define defending what ideals, uh, were in mind before this will be, um, will define the outcome, you know, define how much of this is even slightly recognizable as a, as institutions. 
And as a country or culture goes, well, you touched on some really important points there. 
I think, you know, the thing we have to say to ourselves, like you did, uh, was that you did enough. 
You did what you were supposed to do. 
You, you got out there, you voted. 
And I don't mean that just this time. 
I mean, in my entire voting history and I've looked at it, it's, it's fascinating to see that. 
And every time, I mean, I'm open to being wrong. 
I guess, I guess I was voting for the wrong things. 
And so I think now my attitude is like, well, okay. 
So indeed prove me wrong. 
Show me how great it will be. 
Yeah. 
You know what? 
Maybe we are wrong. 
Let's, let's, let's just put that on the table. 
Maybe we are wrong about all of this and maybe it'll be a cakewalk in 2025. 
But, uh, I just, I didn't get that, uh, scenario, uh, listening to Trump in his own words. 
Um, he was basically saying he was going to send military into, uh, cities, uh, to, uh, to combat crime. 
He was going to have, what was it, uh, a, a day of, uh, or an hour of utter bloodshed so, uh, that criminals could be, uh, eliminated or, or some, some sick thing like that. 
Uh, he basically referred to the people that didn't support him as enemies of the people. 
Um, whereas Harris had always said that she was going to be everybody's president. 
She would listen to everybody, especially those knuckleheads. 
Yes. 
I'm using a Midwestern term that would kept interrupting her speeches, never interrupting Trump's speeches. 
Why is that? 
Why didn't you ever have the courage to go to Trump's speeches and disrupt those when he is the culprit? 
He is the, the, the, the person who basically lit the match in the Middle East and he's going to light more. 
And I, I, I could go on for an hour about this. 
It's just, I I've noticed this from his first reign too, that people were just loath to actually confront him, but no problem confronting the people who are much closer to where you stood. 
And I think that's a problem that we have always had on the left is that, um, we're great at, at fighting amongst each other, but not so great at fighting the true enemy. 
And, um, I do believe he is the true enemy as he believes that everybody who opposes him is a true enemy. 
Well, how is he going to treat those people? 
You know, what do we have to look forward to now? 
Um, okay. 
So like I said, maybe we're wrong. 
Maybe, uh, the economy will suddenly improve. 
Hey, look what happened today. 
The Dow Jones skyrocketed. 
Uh, Elon Musk, he's worth, um, uh, what is it? 
Um, um, um, hundred, uh, 15 billion more today than he was yesterday. 
Yeah, but he, they have not a whole not finished. 
Trump stock went way up. 
Bitcoin is up. 
I mean, middle-class America. 
You feeling that, huh? 
You see how that's benefiting you? 
It's not benefiting you one iota, but that's what you voted for. 
And that's what you have to look forward to. 
Massive profits for them. 
Big smiles on their faces. 
You're not going to get crap. 
You know, right now, gas prices. 
You might think they're expensive, but they're cheap compared to Canada, compared to the UK, compared to Germany, compared to Japan, compared to almost everywhere else on the damn planet. 
But no, you got to complain and say 239. 
That's too much. 
When you go back 10 years and realize, wow, it costs the same then too. 
Groceries. 
Yeah. 
Grocery prices go up. 
They've done that all around the world. 
And I don't think Joe Biden was responsible for that. 
It's called inflation. 
It's called how the world works sometimes, and it's a global issue. 
But you think Trump can fix it? 
Well, let's see what he does. 
Let's see how he fixes it. 
We're going to check back in throughout his reign, as long as we're allowed to speak openly. 
And we'll just see how much your life is actually improving. 
Because you seem to have forgotten what happened in 2016, you know, through 2020. 
Because people were not skipping and dancing then. 
There were all kinds of economic problems, all kinds of unrest, all kinds of horrible things going on. 
And now we get the sequel. 
I'm sorry, Kyle. 
I interrupted you. 
Go ahead. 
Yeah, I get where you're coming from. 
And those stock prices, I mean, yeah, it makes sense. 
They're going up. 
But when the policies that are enacted actually hit the road and we start – and things look shaky, all that will crash. 
Like it will become desirable because the people that – and it will be like right after their tax breaks kick in, you know. 
And so the interim, right, we've got to pump it all up because – Their tax breaks. 
Not your tax breaks. 
Their tax breaks. 
Right. 
Well, exactly. 
You're not going to get anything out of this. 
But I don't put a lot of anything into stable – like the stock market being more stable at some kind of bubble price. 
That's just foolish. 
I mean, if you grew up around some of the tech booms, like that's – that can change immediately. 
And I'm not as keen on how that's going to go. 
I don't know. 
I think it's a lot more precarious because if something is – a decision is made out of like bravado or people's – without question, then the side effects of that could mess with things beyond the scope of some attitude, some gut feeling that Trump has. 
Have you even gotten into climate change or health care or infrastructure, all these things that are going to suffer? 
He's going to put somebody in charge of the Board of Education that doesn't believe in the Board of Education. 
He's going to put somebody in charge of health that doesn't believe in vaccines. 
Oh, my God. 
Yeah, it's – we just need, you know, a good clear route to Canada to go for an occasional sanity boost. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
Talking of clear routes, though, I think it's very important to note what we can do, what we can continue to do. 
And that is we can take care of one another. 
We can work at the local level. 
We can do what we can to protect those who are under direct threat in this administration. 
Trans people, notably trans kids, are very much in the crosshairs right now. 
Not – you know, neurodiverse people, people who need assistance in various ways, mutual aid, organize at the community level. 
Find out where people are organizing near you. 
If they aren't, start it yourself. 
Do what you have to because taking care of one another at the community level to make up for massive failures in government is punk AF. 
It is important. 
It's something – it's among the most important things we can do right now. 
Well said. 
And, you know, this is a technology show for the most part, not very technology-oriented today. 
But this does affect our community tremendously. 
And there are so many trans people in our community that need our support, that are going through hell right now. 
And the future is unwritten. 
We need to help direct that future and protect those people. 
And the list is huge. 
The list is huge of people who will come under the crossfires of a new Trump regime. 
And not just Trump, just all the ugly people that he brings with him, filled with hatred and given a whole lot of power. 
Now, as far as what we can do – what does that noise mean exactly? 
That means something disconnected? 
It's an OS sound. 
I'll change it. 
Well, just eliminate it. 
You don't have to change it. 
But basically, what that means – all right, now I hear loud noise. 
It should only be Alex. 
What the hell is going on over there? 
Okay, I'm turning that down. 
I'm turning everything down so I can hear myself think. 
All right. 
So basically, I'm sorry for all the technical snafus, but we're kind of walking into walls today. 
I'm sure many of you are as well. 
What we can do is, as Rob said, help each other, support each other. 
I don't want to point fingers. 
You know, this election, again, is not the fault of any group of people other than the people that voted for Trump. 
But unless you're one of those, do not feel guilty if you decided to have a protest vote or if you – even if you didn't show up, you know, at this point, there would have to be millions of you to make a difference. 
It doesn't get us anywhere. 
It really doesn't get us anywhere. 
We need to support each other, we need to build coalitions, and we need to fight together. 
But what I'd also like to suggest is that you use this, this sucker punch that we all got, and be determined to turn that into something good, hard as that might even be to conceive of. 
What I mean, though, is – and this might not come for a day or a week, maybe more, but we all got to do it. 
Something that you would not have done ordinarily, something positive that you would not have done ordinarily, whether that's joining some group of people that you happen to support and agree with, something you wouldn't have done if Harris had won. 
But now you feel compelled to do something, something for yourself. 
Maybe you sit around the house a lot. 
Well, walk a mile every day and tell yourself you wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for what happened last night. 
If you love someone, love them twice as much. 
Do more. 
And always tell yourself, it's because of that that I'm doing more. 
You'll feel better. 
You'll feel better having done something positive. 
But also you'll feel empowerment because that bad thing that happened pushed you and made you do something else that you wouldn't have done ordinarily. 
If we all do something like that, the strength we can gather, it's immeasurable. 
And we need to get back on the positive road. 
I know today is a wipeout. 
Today is a lost day for many of us. 
But Kamala Harris gave a very good speech today where she spoke to her supporters and told them not to give up. 
Hear me when I say that the light of America's promise will always burn bright as long as we never give up, as long as we keep fighting. 
I want those words to resonate. 
I want people to remember that. 
And keep fighting. 
All right. 
Alex, are you out there? 
Oh, Alex, I'm here. 
Go ahead. 
Alex, is there any way you can talk louder? 
Yes, I can talk louder. 
That's better. 
Is this any better? 
Yes, that's much better. 
Let's keep it at that value. 
All right. 
Well, I'm in a taxi heading from the airport now into Bangkok proper. 
So this guy's probably wondering what the hell I'm doing. 
He doesn't speak English really at all. 
So this will be interesting for him. 
But anyway, I really hope that this resistance movement comes back, that we see the stickers with the hashtag for resist. 
Remember, we made so many of those back in 2016, Emanuel. 
One of the things that gave me great hope was that where I live in the West Village, I looked out across the street, and somebody on their balcony had put together a neon sign on the top floor that anybody who looked up from the street would see that said resist on it. 
And I think that that's what we need to do now. 
And if I could think about your call to action here is to do something that you wouldn't have ordinarily done, to be a part of something that is going to defend America's ideals from this type of threat. 
I got an email earlier today from the president of Human Rights First. 
I do work with Human Rights First on their technology advisory for the last four or five years now or so. 
And as Sue Hendrickson had sent us, and I think Human Rights First is a great organization of which should be a part because it promotes the very best of American ideals domestically and abroad, and really fights for immigrants' rights and the rights of asylum seekers, even having pushback against a lot of changes that the Biden administration made to try to appease the concentrates and political bases that were at work in this particular election. 
So Sue Hendrickson wrote, Donald Trump has been clear about his belief that he can act with the community and his intention to disregard the rights of individuals. 
Believe him. 
On Human Rights First, we won't let abuses go unchallenged. 
We fight to uphold democratic ideals and institutions, safeguard human rights and civil liberties for all, resist efforts to weaponize governments and hold individuals and institutions accountable. 
No one is above law. 
And I think we should look to organizations like Human Rights First, ACOE, and others, and try to strengthen them because this is what we're doing. 
We need the reinforcements now. 
If we wait too much longer, it will be too late. 
Yeah, absolutely. 
I also want to, in line with that, I'd like to read a statement from the LGBTQ community. 
More than 70 LGBTQ plus advocacy organizations released a solidarity statement today. 
Election outcomes at national, state, and local levels will impact our health, our safety, and our rights as LGBTQIA2S plus. 
Yeah, there's a few more. 
People and families, the statement read. 
Despite anti-LGBTQIA2S plus efforts to divide our communities and particularly sever attacks against transgender people and LGBTQIA2S plus youth, it's just, I can't say it fast, we have succeeded in moving a few steps closer toward equity and justice for our community. 
The letter highlighted the re-election of lesbian U.S. 
Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin and the election of the first transgender member of Congress, Representative Elect Sarah McBride of Delaware. 
So there are good things there. 
Don't want to just focus on the bad. 
There are a lot of good things that came out of this election. 
It's just the bad is really getting all the attention. 
The statement did not mention President-elect Trump by name. 
Again, folks, mention him by name. 
Call him out on everything. 
But he and other Republican candidates frequently employed anti-LGBTQ plus rhetoric in the campaign, particularly against transgender and non-binary people. 
So we need more solidarity. 
We need more statements like that. 
We need more people coming together and showing their strength. 
And, you know, something else. 
I'm talking about doing something positive. 
This place, the place we're talking to right now, WBAI, we had our fundraiser last week. 
And as promised, it's over now. 
But that's not going to stop me from saying that. 
How about your good thing that you wouldn't have done ordinarily is to support WBAI so that we have a place like this for at least the next four years? 
We're going to need it. 
We are going to need a bastion of free speech where people are free to discuss these issues and challenge all that which is going to be flung at us. 
It's something that we've learned many times over the decades since we went on the air in 1960, the importance of a radio station not beholden to corporations or billionaires or anything like that. 
I mean, look what happened to the Washington Post. 
They lost all respect because of a billionaire, because Jeff Bezos was afraid of offending Trump and among the first to congratulate him when he won. 
Think about the shame involved in that, how you could work for the Washington Post at this stage. 
I don't know. 
It must be tough. 
It must really be tough. 
We don't do that kind of thing here. 
We're non-commercial. 
No sponsors. 
No billionaires. 
Just people like you supporting us. 
So go to buddy.wbai.org or give to wbai.org. 
Either one of those. 
Very straightforward how to donate. 
But that's how we stay on the air. 
That's how we're able to do this week after week. 
And we're only one program. 
There are so many programs on the air here. 
Some of them dealing a lot more directly with these issues. 
All right, as we head into our last minute or so, this statement from Independent Senator Bernie Sanders, who did not mince words in a scathing statement today. 
It should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party, which has abandoned working class people, would find that the working class has abandoned them. 
First, it was the white working class. 
Now it is Latino and black workers as well. 
So, I respect Bernie a lot. 
I listen to what he says. 
And to some extent, I agree with this. 
But it doesn't explain why they would think Trump would have their backs at all. 
He has a track record. 
He said so many horrible things. 
How do you trust him? 
I mean, the Democratic Party obviously has major problems and does need to do exactly what Bernie said. 
But responsibility has to be laid at the feet of the people that went to him. 
You got to own that. 
Just like we own the defeat that we're experiencing right now, you got to own what your victory has cost us. 
Yeah, stop talking to us like that. 
I'm sorry. 
I have no love for that. 
Wait, who are you talking to, me or Bernie? 
Bernie. 
Oh, okay, I'm sorry. 
Like, thanks for nothing. 
All of you. 
All right. 
Well, that's not the kind of positive thought I'd like to end with. 
Let's not point fingers at each other. 
And that includes Bernie. 
Not that he's on with us. 
But if he's listening, now we have to heal. 
Now we have to move forward and do better. 
All right. 
If you want to join us, if this kind of talk somehow leaves you wanting more, we're on overtime at 8 o'clock on our YouTube channel. 
Join us over there. 
We'll take a few phone calls. 
Probably not that many. 
And you know what? 
It's okay to feel angry. 
It's okay to feel a bit better. 
I know I do. 
Write to us, OTH at 2600.com and unleash a bit if you need to. 
We will hopefully see you again next week here on WBAI. 
Please support the station. 
We'll see you next week. 
Good night. 
And welcome to everybody here on YouTube. 
It's off the hook over time. 
And hopefully we make it to YouTube. 
Hopefully we are actually broadcasting and hopefully you're actually listening and maybe even calling us. 
Rob, did you make it okay? 
I did. 
And Gila is also here off mic. 
She's in the YouTube chat doing her normal wrangling. 
So please tell her you hope she feels better soon. 
You want me to tell her? 
Of course. 
Well, it goes without saying. 
You can too, but also our friends in the chat. 
Oh, yes. 
For sure. 
For sure. 
And Alex, is Alex still on the phone? 
No. 
Can you tell Kyle if anyone's on the phone? 
Does it tell you that? 
No, it doesn't? 
Okay. 
Well, then let's do this. 
We can either try to reach Alex on Skype or on the phone. 
Since we're going to be taking phone calls, probably Skype. 
That way we at least give him the chance to be a part of the conversation when he's wandering around somewhere in Bangkok, Thailand. 
Nobody really knows why he's doing that. 
And the phone is ringing. 
It's probably Rebel, but you know what? 
It's going to be Rebel no matter what. 
So let's just get it over with. 
Phone number for those of you who didn't get through this time, but will get through soon, 802-321-4225. 
And Alex, are you joining us? 
Why do I see his face? 
I'm trying to connect to him, but if you'll give me some time. 
Yeah, no, I will. 
I just thought when we saw his face, that meant that we had him. 
By face, I mean his face. 
All right. 
We could narrate all of the behind-the-scenes. 
It's not a video show. 
People don't see what we see, so I feel it's only right to include them. 
Let's take this phone call. 
Good evening. 
You're on all the time. 
Go ahead. 
Yes, hello. 
Can you hear me? 
Yes, and thank you for not being Rebel. 
Oh, okay. 
You're welcome. 
Yeah, I feel like Charlton Heston at the end of Planet of the Apes when he sees the Statue of Liberty lying in a pile of rubble, and he falls to his knees and he screams, God damn you all to hell. 
Yeah. 
That's exactly how I feel right now. 
Everybody let us down. 
That's got to be circulating on the Internet somewhere. 
I saw a picture of the Statue of Liberty with a gun to her head saying, that's it, I'm done. 
Yeah, I saw a call Bernstein on CNN back when Trump was being tried in the second impeachment trial, and he said that in private almost every Republican senator hated Trump's guts and that if they could have voted by secret ballot, he would have been convicted in a landslide. 
So that's the first failure. 
That's the epitome of cowardice. 
That is cowardice, and you will see so many examples of that ranging from Jeff Bezos to what his fellow politicians are willing to do and willing to not do. 
You know, Nikki Haley, remember the horrible things he said about her and how she said he was unfit, and now she's just lined up behind him supporting him? 
His own vice president, J.D. 
Vance, called him Hitler. 
And now bygones be bygones. 
He would have paired up with the actual Hitler, the chance, and would have said, yeah, you know what, it's all in the past now, but the future, that's what's ahead. 
It's disgusting. 
It's disgusting. 
I cannot fathom how people can say, yeah, that's the candidate for me, somebody with so little backbone. 
Paired up? 
That's this fucking spirit animal. 
We can curse on this show, by the way. 
You mentioned Jeff Bezos. 
I've got to give credit to the Economist and the Financial Times, the two British publications. 
Right. 
They're clearly right of center politically, but they both endorsed Harris, and they both said that Trump is erratic, he can't be trusted with power, and that Americans should vote for Kamala Harris. 
And they had the guts, and they're clearly conservative, but they have integrity, and they deserve credit for speaking out, unlike the cowardly newspapers in this country. 
Yeah, they would have been the first people we would thank had it gone the other way, I think. 
Yeah, probably. 
And, you know, think of all the people that worked with Trump or were near him and warned us, tried to warn us, who are part of his party, and, you know, basically paid a tremendous price for that. 
If they were elected officials, they probably got knocked out because of that. 
And to have the American people just disregard those warnings from people who know what the hell they're talking about. 
I mean, good Lord. 
It makes me question democracy. 
Is it really a wise idea? 
You know, it's like the people who comment after somebody researches a news story and pours their heart into it, to have somebody dismiss it all with one sentence and the first comment, and they don't know what the hell they're talking about. 
Kind of feeling the same thing here, where people who don't know what they're talking about are making decisions that are really going to come back and hurt us all in the end. 
And again, I'd love to be proven wrong, but boy, I don't think that's going to happen. 
Yeah, I can't believe there are so many suckers. 
I mean, Trump, and he lied throughout the campaign. 
He made up the story about the Haitians eating pets, and when he was proven wrong, he just said, well, that's what I hear people saying. 
I mean, I don't want a president who says, well, that's what I'm hearing on the news and then doesn't have the integrity to admit that he was wrong. 
So we're screwed. 
We're screwed for the next four years. 
Collar, going back to some of the technical questions, I think what is front of mind, I would just ask you, since you're here with us, what technically, what kinds of things are you going to be working on, or do you think technically will need attention, maybe you don't have a solution for it, but what's an area of technology, of hacking, of your own idea or sense of security? 
What do you think will need attention or will be vulnerable? 
Well, I'm concerned about net neutrality and the deepfakes. 
I mean, you know, because I know Trump, obviously, he probably doesn't know what net neutrality is. 
If you asked him, he probably wouldn't have a clue, but I'm obviously concerned about that. 
Yeah, and if it's not there, what will you do? 
And I think that's the question. 
What are you going to do? 
You know, what are people doing and thinking about doing in light of some of the changes that might be ahead? 
Trying to look at nonprofit journalism, because as you said before, a lot of the mainstream media are cowards. 
So I think resources like ProPublica, they do very good journalism. 
So I think seeking out sources like that over the next few years, because I'm sure it's Trump will try to crack down very severely on the media, I believe is threat. 
I'm not really in favor of dismissing all mass media, period, because look at what Trump has recently done. 
He recently said that CBS should lose its license because he didn't like the way they aired an interview that he wasn't even in. 
And first of all, you know, we need these big broadcast networks and talk shows with millions of followers if they're going to do a good job. 
If they do a bad job, we call them out on that. 
If they do a good job, we don't say, oh, well, because you're part of the mass media, we're not going to even count you. 
No, we need that. 
We need those people. 
No, I agree with you on that. 
And just to address what he was demanding, that they lose their license, the idiot doesn't even know that broadcast networks don't need licenses. 
The stations are what have licenses. 
I can't believe I have to say this, but it's the broadcast stations that have licenses through the FCC, not the network and that you could just make a network out of anything you want. 
It's not an FCC issue. 
Same thing with cable channels. 
They're not beholden to the FCC. 
A cable channel can curse up a storm and the FCC can't do anything about it. 
Their sponsors might. 
And that's why they don't do it. 
But this is something, you know, this basic bit of information. 
Trump does not even understand. 
How the hell is he going to handle the global political situation? 
It's a joke. 
It's an absolute joke. 
You know, the New York Times had a front page story a few weeks ago, and they said that that most of his voters don't believe his rhetoric. 
And like what you said about taking the license away from CBS, they said it's just talk. 
He wouldn't actually act on that. 
Yeah, I think they just think he's making it up. 
There's going to be a moment, I think, where there's going to be a separation of some of those comments, what was part of the campaign trail and what actually has a sliver of policy or other kinds of vendetta, whatever their actions are, whatever moves are made, that kind of thing behind it. 
You have to separate some of that out from the intervening period. 
And I think some of that stuff will emerge, and people are going to have to make those things undesirable targets. 
Alex over in Thailand, did you have anything to pitch into this conversation? 
I see you're in a car still. 
Yeah, I am. 
I'm in a car. 
I'm in traffic. 
There's going to be a lot of traffic heading into Bangkok. 
Bangkok traffic is world-renowned for being some of the worst traffic. 
I hope you packed several meals because you could be there until tomorrow, and that's tomorrow your time, not our time. 
Well, that's one of the things I wanted to address, is that I feel like I lost a day of mourning or something here because I left on Tuesday. 
Everybody found out, I'm guessing around late Tuesday night or early Wednesday, very, very early Wednesday morning. 
I think around 3 a.m. 
is when Trump had called it. 
But I've been traveling and traveling and then sat in a Doha airport for a while at the lounge, and now I'm here in Bangkok, and it's Thursday. 
Wait, so you left on Tuesday. 
You left on Tuesday, and now it's Thursday. 
Yeah, you skipped Wednesday. 
The best day of the year to skip. 
Absolutely. 
That's right, yeah. 
So I skipped that day. 
I skipped that whole day of mourning, and now I'm here across the world. 
That's weird. 
One of the things that I was thinking of is, you know, I went out Tuesday morning early to my local polling place in the West Village, which is actually the LGBT Center on 13th Street between 7th and 8th. 
And yeah, I voted like I usually did. 
There I took my kids with me and my dog, and they all got stickers. 
They got the future voter stickers. 
We put the stickers on the dog about voting. 
And I had my I voted sticker on since Tuesday morning. 
And then when the results came in, and we're in the airport and on the plane, and I still have the sticker that indicates I voted in the United States. 
And I have to say, you know, it was almost embarrassing because I felt like people are going to assume that I voted the wrong way when you have the American flag and an I voted sticker on you, and you look at that result, people are probably going to assume that you might have been part of that majority. 
Well, it's a 50-50 chance. 
I mean, you know, you're on the plane there. 
You're the one with the I voted sticker from the USA. 
So the odds are one and two that you voted for something really bad, whereas everybody else didn't vote at all because they're from somewhere else. 
Yeah, so I felt like, wow, I should probably take the sticker off, because I don't know how people are going to react to it, you know, either in Qatar or here in Thailand. 
But it was a weird feeling. 
It was a very strange, very, very strange feeling. 
When you just went through customs and you showed your passport to the customs agent, did you tell me that she was clucking her tongue at you as of saying shame? 
Or was that just something I made up? 
Yeah. 
If only my customs agent was a very no-nonsense female who wanted me in and out of there rather quickly. 
See, I guessed that right. 
I guessed that right. 
Yeah. 
You did. 
Yep, you did. 
But now nobody said anything to me about it yet, but I'm sure everyone's thinking it. 
I really don't even know what else to say about this, but I do feel a little bit isolated, a little bit distanced from everybody because, you know, it really was such a community thing back in 2016 when he was first elected. 
But I think when we think back to 2016, and this is really what gives me pause and gives me some great concern here, is that Trump back then was a bit of a joke, just came out of nowhere. 
Nobody really understood how he won, and everyone assumed that going into election night that Hillary Clinton would take it. 
But now we're dealing with a Trump who's not necessarily somebody who is still a novice when it comes to politics. 
This is somebody who has gone through now three presidential campaigns and had run an entire presidential administration. 
So he's very experienced. 
I think that there are very few people in the history of the United States who can claim the title of having run three presidential campaigns. 
And so I think that this new election comes with a level of competence and knowledge about how the system works that we did not have in the past. 
That should give us more pause and more reason to resist and to organize. 
You know, Alex, what you said before about his followers not believing the things that he said, not believing that he's going to do the things he says he's going to do. 
Keep in mind, in 2016, there were adults in the room. 
There were the Kellys. 
There were a handful of people that stood up to him. 
Even John Bolton, who I thought was a lunatic myself, until I realized, wow, the guy does know what he's talking about and realizes that Trump is an idiot, stood up to him, prevented him from doing insanely irresponsible things with our nation's military and God knows what else. 
And those people are not going to be there this time. 
Instead, there are going to be Trump minions, people who do whatever he says, no matter how irrational. 
And I don't think his followers, I don't think even we realize the magnitude of that. 
That is going to be dangerous. 
That could well lead to the end of many things that we take for granted. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
I just want to relate a couple of comments from our YouTube chat. 
Good evening, all. 
A lot of good discussion going on there already. 
We've got a good amount of people listening. 
Pete says, I'm happy to spend time with you all on such a shitty day. 
If there's any community that gives me even the least bit of hope for the future, it's this one. 
Oh, thank you so much for that. 
That's sweet. 
That definitely makes me feel a little better. 
Absolutely. 
And Tim in Connecticut, our pal says, I do hope nothing will be as bad as I think it might be. 
But we survived the last time. 
Just the changes this term might last my lifetime. 
Again, Tim, I don't think you heard me because I said it after you said that probably. 
But yeah, last time was different than this time. 
And God help us. 
And our friend TL says, anyone else here losing their bodily autonomy come January? 
Tell me how I'm going to survive. 
Please go ahead. 
You will survive and you'll have a community behind you. 
It's going to be a fight. 
It's going to be a fight. 
And we have to all remember that. 
Alex, do you have something else you wanted to add? 
I want to get back to our caller. 
No? 
Okay. 
Caller, are you still with us? 
Yeah, I just want to say, I think Pelosi and Schumer should resign because I put a lot of blame on them. 
They've known for years that people thought Biden was too old to run and they sat on their hands. 
They waited till the last minute to pressure him out of this race. 
So they put Harris in a very difficult position to mount a credible campaign in three months. 
So I really put a lot of blame squarely on their shoulders. 
If they had an ounce of integrity, they would resign. 
Can I just stop you there, though? 
Because, you know, the finger pointing, it might make us feel better, but it doesn't do anything. 
It doesn't help the situation. 
Look, you know, I thought and I still do think that Joe Biden is as mentally capable as ever. 
He moves a little slower and he stumbles over words, which is nothing new. 
But back in July, I assumed he was going to make it to the end. 
It was that disastrous debate performance that got everybody to say, yo, we have to do something about that. 
And I thought that might be a bit premature, but it probably was the right move. 
And what we got out of that was a damn good campaign and a damn good candidate and also some vindication for Harris, who was less popular than Biden for no reason at all, just because we didn't hear enough from her. 
She turned out to be a fantastic candidate. 
She would have been an amazing president. 
And I'm hoping in four years the same team will run again and hopefully be more in tune with more people, be able to address more issues and be able to point to all the things that Trump has completely screwed up by then. 
Yeah, well, I think she would have been an even better candidate if she had more time. 
That's why I think Biden should have left earlier. 
But like you said, we are where we are. 
And also, Alvin Bragg, when he indicted Trump for the Stormy Daniels case, Trump's poll numbers shot up very high. 
So I think that was a dumb prosecution to bring. 
OK, but you have to understand Alvin Bragg is not part of the DNC. 
You know, these things happen independently of each other. 
Yeah, but I'm just saying it was a dumb. 
He didn't have to bring that case. 
And that cast it. 
People thought that that case was illegitimate. 
Then all the other cases were illegitimate. 
So his case tainted the really important cases like January 6th and the Georgia voter intimidation and the stolen documents. 
Yeah, but how are those cases going now? 
One was dismissed. 
The others are just going to be dismissed as soon as he's president. 
The New York state one is the only one that he cannot pardon himself from because it's a state case, not a federal case. 
I don't know. 
I think if there's evidence of a crime, I can't believe I'm saying this, but there's evidence of a crime. 
You need to go after the perp. 
You need to go after the person that you suspect, regardless of whether it's politically wise to do it at that particular moment or who they are or where they happen to stand in the political scheme. 
And he's going to get away with everything. 
And if that doesn't piss people off, I don't know what will. 
I really don't. 
To see somebody just, it's disgusting. 
Yeah, I just want to give one other movie reference of sort of a bookend to Planet of the Apes, but it's the final scene in Chinatown where the character played by John Huston gets away with the crime. 
And the guy tells Jack Nicholson, forget it, Jake, it's Chinatown. 
And I guess that's what we have to tell ourselves, because Trump is getting away with it. 
Forget it. 
It's the United States of amnesia, basically. 
That's a good comeback. 
Yeah. 
Yeah, absolutely. 
It's true. 
All right. 
Well, you guys have a great night and good luck over the next four years. 
And I hope, if possible, we all get sent to the same internment camp. 
So have a good night. 
We'll be sure to burn it down if we do. 
That's positive thinking for you right there. 
802-321-4225. 
But we're going to get through this because we're going to be together and we're going to back each other up. 
I know no one wants to hear that right now, but we don't have a choice, okay? 
We can't just succumb to this evil. 
And I think, you know, he will do himself in before anyone else gets to. 
So it's just really, I'm at a loss for words. 
Good evening. 
You're on Off Look Overtime. 
Go ahead. 
Hi, Emmanuel. 
Hey, what's up? 
I'm reeling from all this just like everybody else, but I think everybody's kind of missing the lesson of history here. 
This is just history repeating itself. 
You know, I've studied the Holocaust, and the primary reason that happened was because of Joseph Goebbels. 
the most important quote in all modern history is what he said. 
Right. 
If you tell an outrageous lie publicly often enough and long enough that people come to believe it. 
Now, Rupert Murdoch's been at this for 30 years, and his outrageous lie, of course, is that under all circumstances, no matter what, Republicans are great, and under all circumstances, no matter what, Democrats are bad. 
Now, he's been at this for 30 years. 
He's got a cult of 100 million people that believe this. 
There's no amount of logic. 
There's no amount of reason that's going to undo this. 
The only way forward is to stop these lies, to stop this propaganda. 
We need laws to protect the American people from this kind of Nazi playbook that has been going on for 30 years. 
This is the result of it. 
The Democrats have been sitting on their asses letting this happen. 
It's ridiculous. 
Well, what do you think they could have done differently? 
We need laws and broadcasts. 
If you broadcast electronically to, let's say, 5,000 more people, okay, you have to tell the truth. 
You just can't make up lies and deceive people. 
I mean, that's what's going on. 
You know, I got friends. 
They're intelligent people. 
They're good, decent, moral people. 
But if they turn on these channels, they're only human. 
They're just brainwashed into believing this is the right thing. 
Well, it gets a little tricky, though, because how do you determine what is truth and what is not? 
There's nuances, all kinds of, you know, opinions on how something went. 
Well, Canada has a truth in news broadcasting law. 
Well, you know, Rupert Murdoch tried to start his Fox News Canada, and the regulators looked at him, his application, and said, no, you don't qualify. 
It's just that simple. 
We just simply need laws to protect the people. 
It's not the people. 
It's not, we're only human. 
You know, it's, you know, Trump can say 99% batshit crazy, but they're not hearing this. 
But Fox is just cherry-picking that 1%. 
They're just brainwashed. 
They're only human. 
Right. 
And if you don't get down to the source of this, I don't see the way out. 
I really don't. 
Well, you see, the thing is... 
This is just history repeating itself. 
We're dealing with cult-like behavior here. 
So if you were to say, okay, you're no longer on this platform because you're lying, you're being fined because you're lying, somehow that brings Trump's numbers up. 
If you charge him with a crime, his numbers go up. 
If you put him in prison, his numbers go up. 
You know, it's no matter what, if you do anything against him, right or wrong, his numbers go up. 
How do you fight that? 
No. 
No. 
You need to get to the source. 
And as long as broadcasters in this country, you know, whether it's on cable or over the air, as long as they're allowed to spout propaganda lies, okay, if you don't go to the source, it doesn't matter if it's Trump or somebody else, you know, that's why it seems to look to me like people can't understand. 
How could this person vote for Trump? 
Well, they've been hearing propaganda lies for 30 years. 
They're only humans, okay? 
You need to get to the source. 
I don't think it's that difficult if, of course, all the mass media is owned by the 1% corporations and they control it. 
But this is the most powerful force ever created in all of human history is an individual, a small group of individuals can electronically communicate to millions of people. 
That's the most powerful force ever created. 
It has to have some limits, some control. 
But would you extend this to include smaller media as well, like our radio station, for instance, or other media outlets like social media? 
Would you extend it to those? 
Anybody that broadcasts to a significant amount of people on a regular basis, however, should have limits. 
You know, the news organizations, the FCC, after a broadcast, they can go in and say, okay, where did you get this information? 
You know, they can't just make stuff up. 
Well, first of all, you bring up Fox News. 
Fox News is not a broadcast outlet. 
The FCC has no control over them at all. 
So it would have to be some other entity. 
That's what I'm saying. 
I mean, we need laws to include, you know, cable broadcasts. 
I don't know. 
Well, I agree with your spirit. 
I think this would backfire. 
I think more people would, again, support the person who was being pointed at for, quote-unquote, lying. 
And I don't think that gets to the meat of the matter. 
In a practical sense, of course, for this to actually happen, the Democrats would have to have both houses in the presidency and actually juice them, which is way out in the future. 
But I think people are just sort of, you know, they're blaming the neighbors, like, have to be just only humans. 
And as long as this kind of thing goes on, I don't see any way out, you know. 
So we need to focus on Democrats getting both houses in the presidency and change this and get some protection for the American people. 
The most important thing a government can do, the single most important thing, is to protect those people that can't protect themselves. 
Yeah, the thing is, those people don't like that. 
They don't like the feeling that they're being protected from themselves or, you know, protected by the government. 
They're not into that. 
I just don't think this is going to resonate well. 
I think what we need to do is get at the reason why people are believing things that are demonstrably untrue. 
And also, what I think we should do is point that out as much as possible. 
And I see that on the mass media many times where they say that Trump lied about this. 
They use the word lie. 
I'm curious if they're going to continue doing that once he takes office. 
But just basically calling him out on every mistruth. 
And I think that's really the only way to identify that. 
Because, look, if you prosecute him for lying, you're also protecting him from making a fool of himself. 
You're protecting him from digging himself in even deeper. 
No, I'm not talking about prosecuting or fining or any individual. 
I'm talking about the people that control broadcasting. 
Broadcasters. 
Okay, but how do they control his speech? 
How do they control what he says if they're broadcasting something he's doing at live? 
I'm not talking about restricting that. 
I'm talking about restricting the commentary of the broadcast. 
Okay. 
Right? 
Okay, but people can have differing opinions. 
People can say things that aren't necessarily true or can be proven wrong. 
What I have... 
Like Fox News said for eight years, Obama's going to take away your guns. 
Obama's going to take away your guns. 
And some people thought he was going to do that. 
I mean, when you say this is going to happen as a prediction, it's not a fact. 
It's not saying that he did take away your guns. 
That's a lie. 
Well, it is a lie because there's no legal mechanism for the president to take away private property like that. 
So it is a lie. 
It's an easily demonstrable lie. 
I think the onus is on the broadcasters to prove what they are commenting on at some basis in fact. 
The onus is on them. 
All right, well, we'll leave it there. 
But thanks for your ideas. 
You guys are doing a great job. 
And, boy, we need to stick together and start some community grassroots movement and survive the next four years. 
You guys are doing a great job. 
All right, we'll see you in the trenches. 
Thanks. 
Okay. 
Take care. 
All right. 
Wow, interesting ideas. 
I just don't think that would work. 
More restrictions on broadcasters and coming down hard on people saying the wrong thing. 
No, call them out on saying the wrong thing. 
Let them say whatever they want. 
I'm sick of people saying, I'm not allowed to say this. 
And then they say it. 
They go out and they say what they're supposedly not allowed to say. 
No, you're allowed to say whatever you want. 
Just like, you know, the comic who made the joke about Puerto Rico being an island of garbage. 
You know, saying that he's not allowed to say that. 
No, he said it. 
He was allowed to say it in Madison Square Garden. 
But there are consequences to saying things like that. 
Yeah, yeah. 
And like our intention is to advance discourse generally. 
And you do that and is often said with more discourse. 
If it's bad, the ideas are bad, you speak to it. 
You've used the phrase call out. 
But understand and know the intentions of the side that is making those kind of comments, that hate speech or advocating white supremacy. 
They are using that to maintain the status quo. 
They are not, they don't take this system seriously to sort of like enough, right? 
Like they're not trying to advance anything. 
It's simply to maintain control or power without advancing the discourse. 
So they don't have to say things that make sense. 
They can just lie because it's not a constructive use of language. 
They're just maintaining the status quo by misinforming, right? 
Or disinforming. 
So that's the intention that you're speaking in the face of, right? 
And I think that's an important distinction to have in mind. 
Alex, I'm curious about your take on, are you still in the same cab? 
My God. 
Wow. 
Yep. 
Yeah, there's a lot of traffic here. 
And it seems like every turn leads to another choke point in traffic. 
Well, I've got to tell you, I mean, it's really incredible, too. 
So it's about a little over an hour ride, only 14 miles from the airport. 
And it's about 700 baht to pay for this entire cab ride, which is just under $30. 
Why didn't you stay somewhere closer to the airport? 
Well, I have an event to go to at this particular hotel, and we are hosting an event. 
The Ethereum name service is hosting Friends Day in a couple of days at this hotel. 
So we have the whole company going to one particular place. 
And that's the destination to which I'm traveling right now. 
You know, if I could just say one thing, I understand that a lot of crypto bros are happy about what happened yesterday. 
And you might be wandering into that hornet's nest. 
If you see one of them or two of them, can you deck them for me, please? 
Just and say it's from me. 
Don't take the rap for it. 
But just, you know, nice. 
I'm not a violent person. 
I'm not. 
But sometimes it just hit them over the head with a phone book or something. 
Or I don't know. 
Just whatever. 
No, steal their bottles. 
Yeah. 
They're popping. 
And pour the bottle over their heads. 
Tell them we said thanks again. 
Thanks for nothing. 
Yeah. 
Do that thing where somebody, like, kneels behind them and then you push them. 
And I don't know. 
There's all kinds of things you can do. 
Just do something. 
Well, the crypto bro issue is definitely a problem. 
But I will say this, though. 
Even though there are a lot of the people that have seen this as a one-issue election, is this going to affect my cryptocurrency holdings or not? 
And they made this. 
That was the single litmus test that they used to determine a candidate. 
I think there are others that have taken a much more nuanced view of this. 
And Vitalik, in particular, who I believe a few months ago wrote a post about this being cautioned to people. 
You can't vote just on the basis that your cryptocurrency holdings. 
That's not how you should be making political choices. 
So I think there are people that, within this community, I think, that are also going to be very upset about this. 
But it is a problem. 
And quite frankly, the Democrats did not do themselves any favors when it came to this community because this community really wanted to embrace the Democrats. 
In fact, they donated a tremendous amount of money to Democratic candidates, SBF included. 
I mean, this is not a great example, right? 
But remember when FTX totally imploded and you looked at the political contributions, they were primarily over to Democrats. 
And Democrats did a lot of interesting stuff with the money, like donated it or turned it back. 
I mean, it was just a total disaster of a situation. 
But when it comes to digital assets, cryptocurrency, I think they really tried to play nicely with the Democrats. 
And what did they do in return? 
Nothing but regulation by enforcement through the SEC and abdicating more and more regulatory power to Gary Gensler as the head of the SEC. 
How did Trump exploit and capitalize on this? 
He said that he's going to get rid of them immediately and that all of these cases, you know, they're going to they're going to toss them. 
So, you know, they could have just because just because he says something crazy like that. 
Does that make it another option? 
Does that make it a legitimate option? 
I mean, government regulates. 
That's what government does. 
You know, it sounds like they just were a bit conservative on this and they could have done more for sure. 
But to just throw out everything all together and say it's a free for all, I don't think that's the answer. 
Well, no, I think the Democrats really shot themselves in the foot and the Biden administration in particular in giving so much power unchecked to Gary Gensler without actually promulgating regulations. 
They regulated this entire digital asset industry through enforcement actions, through wells notices, through lawsuits. 
And that became a very, very problematic stance to have as an administration that's trying to court not just these people as voters. 
As voters, they're dispersed. 
They're all over the place. 
They are, you know, decentralized by by definition. 
You're not going to get enough crypto bros, let's say, in Ohio to carry the state. 
But the point that Trump was making was that I'm your guy. 
I'm your candidate. 
Give me your money. 
That, I think, really worked out. 
Yeah, but he didn't that he didn't understand what crypto was at all. 
He even said it looked like a con game at one point. 
You know, they just caught him on a good day where he said something they liked. 
Well, I think I think what the Democrats did with this particular industry has made America a lot less competitive than many other jurisdictions around the world. 
Now, when it comes to this industry, you don't see companies looking to locate or hire people in the United States very often when it comes to digital assets. 
And that's because of the regulation by enforcement, the scheme that the Democrats had put in place with Gary Gensler and the SEC. 
I think that's going to change now. 
And you saw cryptocurrencies take have a massive spike when when Trump was elected. 
This is exactly what the crypto bros wanted. 
But you have to ask ourselves, you know, at the expense of what the expense of what? 
So, you know, look, I call it the way I see it. 
I think the Biden administration colossally screwed up when it comes to relations with this industry. 
I hope that that's going to change for the positive with the Trump administration. 
Oh, I hope the opposite. 
I hope he completely destroys it. 
I really do. 
Just like I hope everything he touches turns to crap. 
That's what I hope. 
I certainly hope not, because, you know, that would make America, again, far less competitive. 
I mean, I think competitive is the least of our worries right now. 
Being alive in four years is probably top of the list. 
OK, this guy is going to have unfettered access to the nuclear buttons and codes and all that crap. 
So, you know, some techno bros lose some money. 
It doesn't really bother me that much. 
It really doesn't. 
But, you know, I agree we should do better. 
I haven't heard this being discussed to this extent. 
This is the most you've brought it up. 
And it certainly could have been a topic we talked about in years prior. 
Certainly could have been a topic during the Obama years, too, because crypto existed then as well. 
So I don't know. 
I just think you're putting too much blame on the current Democrats and too much credit. 
I know you're not giving credit to Trump. 
But when we see what he actually does. 
Well, I'm not giving credit to Trump. 
I am giving credit to Trump in the manner in which he was able to exploit the missteps of the Democrats. 
I think he did that very, very well. 
That's not hard to do. 
I think he acquired the money. 
That's not hard to do. 
No, it's not. 
I mean, look, and I think the Democrats did a damn good job showing all his stumbles and absurdities. 
It didn't matter, though. 
It didn't matter to his people. 
No matter what he did, he was either OK or even more popular as a result. 
So it's not a level playing field. 
Kyle, I know you have something you want to say. 
Go ahead. 
I just think it's funny hearing this from Alex because of the security implications. 
There's an entire marketplace in these currencies supporting malware and other malicious activity that is itself costing our society and societies around the world quite a bit. 
And it just seems a little odd that you can't really say anything bad about what a regulation like free environment could do. 
And I think that there is a lot that they're trying to look at. 
I don't know this industry. 
Maybe your your proximity has you convinced of other attributes of it. 
But I think there is some some nuance to this where like people who become victims that have to use these forms of currency. 
These are like, you know, public utilities and hospitals, that kind of stuff. 
Where does that fit into your opinion about it? 
Well, that's mostly Bitcoin. 
I think what we're talking about is Bitcoin and the use of of cryptocurrencies as payments for ransomware events. 
We're talking about regulation, right? 
Regulation of cryptocurrency in general. 
You're faulting someone with power. 
I'm not I'm not I'm not talking about regulation of cryptocurrency in general. 
I'm talking about regulation of the entities that are working on digital assets. 
Let's say governance tokens. 
Let's talk about, you know, how DAOs operate. 
You know, these new decentralized governance models where there may be some kind of token event. 
These are way outside the ordinary scope of, let's just say, Bitcoin and Ethereum. 
You know, the two major digital assets are cryptocurrencies that are often used for transactions. 
But the manner by which the government has treated these companies and these entities and these persons that have been trading tokens or using them for governance purposes or having airdrop events and regulating all of these digital assets essentially as securities themselves, as some kind of financial instrument that can be bought and sold and traded is what they number one. 
They haven't promulgated any rules about this. 
They haven't given any kind of clear direction, which if you're a regulatory body like the SEC, you want to give those entities which you're regulating some kind of guidance about how you should be comporting yourself as a company. 
Or as an entity. 
And they haven't done that. 
The biggest problem that the entire industry has with the United States is Gary Gensler and the SEC's regulatory enforcement actions through litigation. 
And they just sue people. 
They issue these Wells notices and sue them one after another, after another, after another. 
Oh, and I mean, if you look at the amount of money and time and expenditure that people have put into this, it's really extraordinary. 
That a government agency would be given this kind of latitude without being put on a leash. 
Can I just ask, how does the EU handle this in comparison? 
There's a couple of different ways to do it. 
I'm actually just getting out of the tax here, so it might not be the best way to do it. 
But they don't sue everybody. 
I mean, they don't have these types of enforcement actions one after another. 
I mean, they don't have – Haven't these financing ventures been accused of fraud in some cases and taking people's money and then somebody disappears with it? 
Or there's like – I don't know if this involves – but trading some digital value and then leaving people high and dry or they just get some – I mean, because they're not understanding what they're investing in entirely. 
And they're being hacked every other day, too, and not recording things. 
Yeah, right, or entire marketplaces. 
Okay, well, Alex is getting out of a cab now. 
Yeah, he's got to run. 
I think we have a call. 
We have a call? 
Oh, my God, all this time we've had a call. 
Good evening. 
You're on off-look over time. 
Go ahead. 
Hi, everyone. 
It's Johnny Fusion checking in. 
Hey, it's been a while. 
Hi. 
Yeah, it's been a bit. 
But, you know, well, shit. 
Things didn't go how we would have preferred. 
And the thing is, though, the thing that we've got to really grapple with is that the majority of Americans want this. 
They actually want this because they think it'll benefit them, that they aren't going to be the ones that are going to get hurt. 
But when you look at the exit poll data, overwhelmingly, it was white people, white men and white women, both majorities for Trump. 
And they're, and they make up most of the voting populace. 
They think they're going to be safe. 
Queer people overwhelmingly voted democratically. 
Only, I think it was like 16% of gay, lesbian, and bisexual, and transgender people voted Republican. 
You know, this is just basically those with privilege thinking they're going to come out on top. 
Yeah, and I guess they did. 
Well, they mean, I mean, in the long run, they think living under turbo fascism is going to be fine for them. 
Not so sure about that. 
I'm really not so sure. 
But let's see. 
Let's see if they do get through this okay. 
Yeah, I think there's going to be a lot of unexpected victims here. 
Yeah, a lot of face-eating leopards are going to be making new acquaintances. 
Yeah, and certainly there will be not much in the way of sympathy or listening for their upset over realizing that perhaps they are still left behind. 
Yeah, well, here's one thing that's important to realize. 
With the Republicans winning the Senate, and now Trump in the White House again, the judiciary is captured by the Christo-fascists for at least a generation. 
Oh, yeah. 
Your little orthodox, you know, madrasas you can institute across the nation. 
Sure, yeah, for whatever purposes, whatever aims, it's at their service. 
Yeah, you know, and every right that the Supreme Court has given us since the Warren Court, based on the 14th Amendment, that's all probably going away. 
I mean, they already started when they overturned Roe v. 
Wade, right? 
That was the first thing to go. 
I believe there will be a case during Trump's presidency, overturning Loving v. 
Virginia. 
Thomas will join the three liberal justices in dissent, but still have his marriage forcibly annulled. 
Go ahead, Rob. 
You had something to say. 
I'm just relaying a question from the YouTube chat for our caller. 
Our pal Zap asks, what has Johnny Fusion been planning? 
I gotta know. 
Oh, well, okay. 
You know I've always been anti-establishment, anti-capitalist. 
I was going to fight, no matter who won, yesterday. 
And the real secret, well, it's not a secret, the real strategy, is organizing on the community level and practicing community defense. 
Because I belong to some of these marginalized communities. 
And no one from government is going to protect us, and we're going to have to take our protection into our own hands. 
We're going to have to create our own networks. 
We're going to have to create our own lines of communication. 
And, well, that's pretty much it. 
You know, mutual aid, mutual networks. 
Can I just say, you're in California, is it? 
California, yeah. 
Well, I mean, you do have protection there on state and local levels, I believe, at least I hope. 
We do. 
California is more conservative than people give it credit for. 
Depends what part you're in. 
Depends where in California you want to represent. 
Yeah, it depends on where you are. 
But it's everywhere. 
I mean, we had a ballot measure where we were going to finally, specifically, outlaw slavery. 
Right? 
Outlaw slavery is, you know, because it still happens in the prison system legally. 
Because, you know, the 13th Amendment allows that. 
Yeah, I heard about this. 
You guys voted for slavery? 
What the hell is going on out there? 
Right. 
It didn't pass. 
I mean, you must have heard somebody arguing the side that keeps slavery on the books. 
What is their argument? 
I didn't hear anything. 
Like, I cut the cord. 
I don't see ads on YouTube. 
So I was insulated from a lot of the political ads and stuff. 
So I don't know what the argument was against that measure. 
I mean, no one signed against, like, you know, when you have the little voter information things. 
There was nothing. 
No one taking the position against in the voter pamphlet, yet still a majority of people said, no, no, let's keep slavery in the prison. 
Yeah, we're not ready yet. 
Maybe someday. 
Good God. 
Well, that's surprising. 
That really, I didn't have time to even process that. 
Yeah, it's wild. 
You know, it was Harris's race to lose. 
I think she made a lot of mistakes, chief among them not coming out against the genocide in Palestine. 
Well, 10 weeks ago. 
You have to understand, she's part of an administration, and she can't just come out and say something that's completely contradicting that administration. 
What she did say, though, was that she supports a two-state solution, which is far more than what Trump has ever said or demonstrated. 
And, you know, that right there, that's the choice, okay? 
You might not like what's going on right now, and I don't like what's going on right now. 
But if you want to move ahead, you have to think of the future. 
And, you know, with Trump, he's just going to say, wipe them all out, and Harris would at least have a conversation, which, again, you might not like the outcome of, but you have a chance. 
I always say, vote for the chance. 
You know, even if it's not the best of all options, you're not going to get the best of all options. 
And now you got nothing. 
Well, Netanyahu did announce today that he's willing to look to end the wars. 
And do you actually believe him? 
I mean, he's said things like that many times. 
He lies to his teeth. 
The guy is a war criminal. 
Well, basically, you know, he held off until after the election. 
Just like the hostages in Iran in 1980, like the Iran-Contra deal, right? 
Don't do it under the Carter administration, and Reagan gets inaugurated, and the hostages come home the same day. 
Right. 
Yeah, they had such a thing about Carter that they deliberately delayed it so that Reagan would somehow get the credit for, yeah, and also so that he would get elected. 
It was just a big middle finger. 
And I feel that's, you know, a lot of what the left does is do that to their own side because they're more pissed at their own side than they are at what I call the true enemy, the people that want to take away their rights and do something they definitely don't want. 
And that's why the Trump rallies don't get interrupted. 
That's why, you know, people spend more time squabbling amongst themselves. 
So, I don't know, I just think a little bit of strategizing would have helped. 
And that's a mistake on the voters' part, you know, of not making the right choice. 
Well, we can call it a mistake, but again, it's what they want. 
Trump won the popular vote for the first time. 
Yeah, he did. 
And I don't know why people voted for him. 
I guess we'll find out. 
But let's see if they get what they want, because I strongly doubt they will. 
No, it's going to be self-serving. 
You know, but people always think they're voting to their best interest. 
You know, these people think they're temporarily embarrassed billionaires and that they'll get at the top someday instead of realizing that they're working class like the rest of us. 
Yeah, you're stuck in wage slavery, okay? 
You're a part of all of this. 
You're going to substantiate all their fucking decisions. 
And you are to maintain the security of the state's ability to have more soldiers and more taxpayers. 
Just because we can curse, Kyle, doesn't mean we have to curse all the time. 
I haven't even gotten started. 
That's what worries me, man. 
You get him started, it's going to be like listening to Wu-Tang. 
Do you understand the restraint at play? 
Like, I've got nothing. 
They've lost all those groups. 
And then chiefly, all right, yeah. 
You don't want it to be infighting. 
Chiefly, the GOP, they've all the way lost me. 
And you want to talk about campaigning with the Democrats, Democrats needed to do, should have done, should have, would have, could have. 
All the coaching, I'm so off that right now. 
I cannot even hear it. 
I've got, I've got nothing. 
You've lost me. 
You've all the way lost me this time. 
They could have had Jesus Christ, Nelson Mandela, and Muhammad Gandhi campaigning, you know, with Harris. 
They still would have lost because of the cult. 
And that's something that we have to recognize and figure out how to deal with. 
It's a huge danger. 
It really is. 
You know, democracy is most certainly at risk. 
And we'll find out exactly how next year. 
Indeed. 
Well, it always has been at risk. 
You know what I mean. 
You know. 
It's at risk in a dire way now. 
Well, yes. 
But it would have been also had it gone the other way. 
You know, Biden continued many of Trump's fascist policies and expanded on them. 
We've had kids in cages the past four years, too. 
But the people, but the blue voters have been salient because it's their guy doing it. 
It's not the same thing at all. 
Whatever, whatever you're referring to, it's, it's not the policy that that Trump had. 
Certainly, it's not, it's not been perfect. 
It's not been good. 
It's a crazy situation. 
But what he did was inhumane. 
And I don't think you can say the same thing about, about the Biden administration. 
Yeah, he's going to keep any of the policies that are in place now until they want to fuck something up. 
That's three, Kyle. 
Seriously. 
Three F-bombs. 
They're not going to, like, upend everything. 
They'll keep this, whatever keeps the status quo until they have their little pet projects to fuck up. 
Four times now. 
Which is the most, by the way. 
That's a record. 
All right. 
It's a day for it. 
It's a, it's a day for it. 
It is a day for it. 
You're right. 
It is. 
It is. 
Yeah. 
No, I'm not, I'm not begrudging anyone. 
All right. 
Final words here? 
Because we're going to go. 
We've had a, we've had a long, hard day here. 
And in fact, Alex had a different day. 
Keep your people close. 
Find your allies. 
Find your compatriots. 
Find your comrades. 
And network together. 
And find new ones, too. 
And ally yourselves with people who, you know, you might not agree with everything on, but you agree with enough on. 
That's, that's the key. 
That's the difference. 
Indeed. 
Well, I mean, I've said this in articles that you publish in the magazine that, that the infighting is counterproductive. 
Absolutely. 
Like, leftists are the worst. 
They are. 
They can agree. 
They are. 
At 99.9% of everything policy-wise. 
Uh-huh. 
But that 0.1% will be life or death. 
Right. 
And they'll think that the people that differ than that 0.1% need to go to the gulag. 
Yeah. 
Because you're, you're a Trotskyite. 
And that means you, you're evil. 
And we'll get, we'll get to the people who are really fighting in a few years. 
But first, we're going to purge you. 
You know, I've known people that talk that way. 
That's why I mock it. 
And I know most people on the left aren't like that. 
It's just the ones that speak the loudest really screw things up for, for so many people. 
And I think that's true everywhere. 
Or, yeah, walk right the hell away from that. 
Yeah. 
Just don't, don't pay that. 
Nah. 
Any mind. 
And we also got to get away from using shame as a motivator politically. 
Right. 
Yes. 
All right. 
We're going to leave it there. 
Thanks so much for your call, Johnny. 
And best of luck to you. 
We'll, we'll speak again. 
Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure lots of articles will be coming off the keyboard in the new current environment and I'll send them your way. 
Oh, your articles. 
Yes. 
I thought you meant lots of, yeah, we're going to be reading lots of articles too. 
But yes, for the magazine, absolutely. 
If you or anyone else wants to write for the magazine, articles at 2600.com is the email address. 
And we'd love to hear what you have to say about the world of high tech and social issues and whatever else is, is relatable. 
Thanks again for the call. 
All right. 
Bye-bye. 
Take care. 
That's it. 
That's, um, that's our last call for tonight. 
Thank you everybody for, for calling in right to us. 
OTH at 2600.com. 
Rob, you seem to have something else you'd like to add. 
Yeah. 
Just, uh, want to thank everyone in the YouTube chat. 
There's been some really intense discussion going on. 
Uh, not all of it directed toward us or the show, but, uh, the folks are speaking among themselves in, uh, in a really, uh, I think important way right now. 
Um, the, uh, I want to, I want to just remind folks that, uh, the BAI pledge phone number is 833 WBAI NYC. 
That's 833-922-4692 or buddy.wbai.org. 
If you want to help keep us doing what we're doing on the radio station, um, which I think is, you know, it's a cliche to say it, but more important now than ever. 
No, absolutely. 
No, most definitely. 
All right. 
You know, this has been a, uh, a tough night, tough day for a lot of people. 
Just know we're with you and, uh, we're here and we count on you to be there as well. 
Alex, do you have any closing thoughts from Bangkok, which you seem to have stopped driving for a moment? 
Yeah, that's right. 
I am, uh, in case anybody's wondering, I'm out of traffic, I'm at the hotel and, um, it's, it's terrible that we're closing up shop right now because my room isn't going to be ready for another three hours. 
It's 9am here Thursday morning, um, in Bangkok. 
So I've, I've got three hours to kill until I can, uh, sleep and take a shower. 
So you sure you don't want to do another, another three hours? 
I am so certain I've never been more certain of anything in my life. 
Yes. 
Okay. 
All right. 
We can do a real marathon session here. 
Yeah. 
Wouldn't that be so much. 
That'd be something. 
Yeah. 
No, no. 
But, uh, next week, what's your excuse for not joining us next week? 
Um, that's a good question. 
No, I think I'll still be in Bangkok next week. 
Um, I don't, I don't fly out until Thursday next week. 
So I'll, I'll be here. 
It'll just be. 
What day is it now, Alex? 
It's Thursday. 
Today is, uh, oh, that's right. 
So that will be Thursday next. 
So you're going to be flying during our show, right? 
Because that's how you know, I schedule it. 
Well, well, let's say, I mean, uh, well, I will tell you the internet connection during the flight wasn't ideal. 
It was supposedly a lot better on the airline than I was using, but, um, I don't think it was. 
Um, I think I should be able to make it next week because I don't think I'm flying out until the afternoon. 
Okay. 
All right. 
It should be okay. 
Yeah. 
I'll have to double check. 
But it's currently 12 hours ahead of us. 
So you're nine in the morning on Thursday. 
Yep. 
Okay. 
That's right. 
Yeah. 
Hopefully we get it. 
Enjoy Wednesday evening. 
Yeah. 
Hopefully we get a Thursday too at some point that we'll, we'll see about that. 
Okay. 
So we're going to sign off now from, from YouTube. 
Uh, thanks everybody for, uh, for being a part of this, uh, write to us. 
OTH at 2600.com. 
We will see you next week on WBAI at seven and on YouTube at eight. 
Good night.