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And a very good evening to provide the program is off the hook.
Emmanuel Goldstein here with you on this Wednesday evening, joined tonight by Kyle.
Hello.
Hi.
Out in Signal Land, we have Rob T.
Firefly.
Good evening.
We have Gila.
Hello there.
And we have Alex.
Yes, you do.
Good evening.
And tonight is a special WBAI call-in show.
We will not be doing overtime tonight, which usually follows the program on YouTube.
YouTube will be quiet tonight.
We will not be going there.
However, we will be here for the hour ahead, taking your phone calls at a special phone number we will give out in a moment as soon as we catch up with all sorts of things.
You know, we've heard so much already about the online age verification shindig that's coming down the pike.
And I have to say, I'm not looking forward to this.
Not looking forward to this at all.
It doesn't bode well.
It looks like it's going to be all kinds of issues, problems for privacy, and things like that.
But here's a fun story.
In Utah, you know it's going to happen in Utah first.
Their former Senate Bill 73, the online age verification amendment, it takes effect right now, today.
Yeah.
If you're listening in Utah, too late.
It's May 6th.
So that makes the state the first in the United States to explicitly target VPN use as part of age verification legislation.
Yeah.
VPN use.
So what does that mean?
Okay.
Well, signed by Governor Spencer Cox on...
That's a great governor name.
Governor Spencer Cox.
He signed it on March 19.
And it's a controversial law.
It establishes that a user is considered to be accessing a website from Utah if they are in Utah.
Okay.
That's not the controversial part, I don't think.
Regardless of whether they use a VPN or a proxy that masks their IP address.
Okay.
So basically the statement is that even if you use a VPN, which allows you to mask your location,
which is kind of how the internet is designed, even if you do that, you're considered to be in Utah.
But if they don't know you're in Utah, they can't really prove you're in Utah, at least not easily.
Here's the other thing.
It also prohibits covered websites.
I'm not sure what covered websites mean.
Maybe, Alex, you can help us with this.
But it prohibits them from sharing instructions on how to use a VPN to bypass AIDS checks.
Well, we are not a website.
And if we were a website, we would probably not be a covered website.
And no matter what, we are not in Utah.
We have no intention of going to Utah.
So let's tell people how to use a VPN to bypass AIDS checks, just so we can get that out there.
I imagine just load a program such as NordVPN.
What's another one?
Easy VPN.
There's all kinds of things that end in VPN that are VPNs.
Express.
Oh, I'm sorry.
Express.
Express VPN.
That's another one.
And basically what you do is you pick a location, a country, a city, and you say, I want to come from there.
And all of a sudden, anywhere you go to, according to that particular destination website, you are now coming from the place you chose.
Now, Google goes crazy trying to defeat this.
And I don't know, you know, when they turned into such evil control freaks.
But, yeah, they want to keep track of where everybody is.
And if you're coming from someplace that they think maybe you're not actually there, they'll try to block you.
That's the sad truth.
So it's a cat and mouse game of VPNs trying to stay one step ahead.
But there are lots and lots and lots of people working on making this happen because this is the net.
This is what the net is all about.
And, yeah, you might have little things like age verification that get complicated by people not telling the truth about where they actually are.
But the health of the Internet is what will survive in the end if we fight.
And I think that's something we need to do because this is bad, what we're seeing unfold here,
where they're trying to crack down on everybody and tell people that you're not allowed to even explain how the technology works.
Now, NordVPN has called the law an unresolvable compliance paradox and a liability trap,
arguing that it holds websites responsible for identifying users whose tools are specifically designed to be unidentifiable.
The EFF warned that the legal risk could push sites to either ban all known VPN IPs or mandate age verification for every visitor globally.
And, obviously, none of this, none of this is what any of us want.
Alex, any thoughts?
Yeah, this is very bad stuff.
And it will seem to probably overblock is if you're just basing blocking on the use of a network or an ASN,
an asynchronous number for a network that indicates an IP address likely belongs to a data center or something like that
that would belong to a VPN, that's not going to be 100% effective as well.
So, it's also the kind of thing, to my mind, that brings us a lot closer to what Russia has been doing
in banning the use of VPNs locally within Russia to try to circumvent the government's ability to monitor communications
and to eavesdrop on communications.
And so, you know, it just doesn't seem like we want to be in that category as well.
This is, I think, quite dangerous.
And, also, don't forget, there are a lot of people that use VPNs and they aren't, they're outside data centers.
It's like lots of ways for people to individually set up their own VPNs
that would very easily bypass this type of mass blocking of IP ranges.
Well, according to this article from Tom's Hardware.com, this law is also technically flawed,
given that it assumes that a web provider can reliably detect VPN traffic and determine a user's true physical location.
They can't.
IP reputation databases such as MaxMind and IP2Proxy can flag traffic from known data center IP ranges,
but commercial VPN providers rotate addresses constantly,
and residential VPN endpoints are largely indistinguishable from standard home connections.
So, yeah, it's a cat and mouse game, and I think one that the people who understand how the technology works,
I think they'll win in the end.
Rob?
Yeah, that's a very important point, a very important component of this whole issue,
is that this is not a law that it is technically possible to enforce at all.
It's just not.
I mean, anybody can, you know, set up a VPN on pretty much in any part of the country they want.
It's trivial to do that for those in the know.
For those not in the know, yeah, we listed some VPN services.
If you look at category, virtual private network services on Wikipedia,
there's a whole category full of Wikipedia articles for all different VPN services
that one could look into and maybe subscribe to.
But, yeah, as someone who operates a handful of websites and has for a long time,
I have no idea who is looking at them.
I have no idea, you know, what they're using to access my website, and frankly, I don't care.
And if I'm going to, you know, potentially be held responsible for putting something online
that somebody else looks at because I didn't know or care who they were,
that's ridiculous.
That's like, it's unjust, it's unenforceable,
and any sort of technical solution that purports to allow this will not work.
You cannot tell where somebody is by the IP address.
You can maybe do a crapshoot, but you're not going to be correct for a significant amount of the time.
Gaila, did you have something?
I did, actually, because I was fascinated that this is in Utah.
Of any place this could possibly be, it's Utah, which, as a state,
has a significant amount of state control over things that require age verifications.
Like, if you don't know what I'm talking about,
the liquor stores in the state of Utah are owned by the state.
And I am fascinated that this state, which is operating at maybe closer to a theocracy
than a lot of other places in the United States are at this precise moment,
has state control over alcohol consumption, state control over lottery,
state control over tobacco products,
and is now trying to initiate state control over internet porn.
Yeah.
It's a dark time.
It really is.
And, you know, I think we can avoid getting sucked into it by not buying into the hysteria of,
oh, my God, what are my kids seeing on the internet?
You know, kids are going to see all kinds of things.
That's not the real issue.
The real issue is what kind of control do you want to give to the authorities
over what you read, what you are interested in, who you talk to,
because all of that goes away when you introduce things like age verification
for every little thing on the internet, including installing operating systems.
Okay.
We can spend the whole hour talking about this.
We can spend hours talking about this.
And we will spend many hours talking about this, I'm sure, in many, many forums.
But this is where we plant the seeds so people can think.
And maybe give us a call in a few minutes with your thoughts on this and anything else.
But here's something else.
And you've probably seen this one spreading around.
North Carolina just confirmed 34,000 dead people on voter rolls.
Guys hear about this?
Yeah.
Stop the steal.
You got it.
You get it.
You guys get it.
I know.
Yeah.
It sounds alarming.
It's designed to sound alarming.
Here's what's actually happening.
That number, by the way, it's real.
That's a real number.
Yeah.
There's 34,000 dead people on voter rolls.
Do you know how this happens?
People die.
And when people die, they don't take themselves off the voter rolls.
They don't fill out the forms.
They don't visit.
They don't call.
They don't do anything they're supposed to do to get their names off the voter rolls.
It's the biggest case of dead person voter fraud by dead people that I've ever seen.
So what do we do?
Okay.
Well, it seems there's a system in place.
Who knew?
Well, some people actually did know.
Um, the conclusions that are being drawn from, from these historical statements are simply
not valid.
North Carolina State Board of Elections found about 34,000 deceased individuals still listed
on their voter registration rolls after running a database comparison.
Uh, the board itself, uh, these are the people who actually did the work, immediately clarified
that finding dead names on a list does not mean anyone voted fraudulently.
Not a single one of those people voted, not one.
You know why?
Uh, you know why.
You know why they didn't vote.
Okay.
They, they, they were on a list.
That's, that's really all that is known.
They were on a list and being on a voter registration list and casting a vote are two completely different
things and zero fraudulent votes have been tied to any of these names.
So here's what actually happened.
When someone dies in North Carolina, the state health department notifies the elections board
weekly and those names get removed.
That system works fine.
The problem is when someone registers in North Carolina, then has the audacity to move to
another state and die there.
Yeah.
North Carolina never gets notified because they're only tracking their own death records.
This federal database comparison caught the gap.
People who left the state and died elsewhere, uh, created, um, and their old registration was
never cleaned up.
It's a data maintenance issue, a boring administrative, totally normal data maintenance issue.
This is literally what voter roll maintenance is supposed to look like.
You run the comparison, you find the gaps, you clean the list.
The North Carolina board announced it and said they're fixing it.
That is the system working.
What MAGA is doing with this story is taking a routine bureaucratic finding and dressing it
up as proof of a stolen election.
They've been doing this for five years.
Every time election officials do their jobs and find outdated records, the grift machine
screams fraud.
Even when the officials doing the finding explicitly say no fraud occurred.
So, um, that's something to keep in mind next time you hear, uh, the, uh, the people screaming
from the mountaintops, uh, that the elections are being stolen and, uh, there's dead people
voting and things like that.
This is how the system works.
It's a good system and it works just fine.
And, um, probably working near you right now.
You never hear about it.
You never hear about it when it's working, um, um, perfectly or even efficiently.
Um, okay.
You know, there's this other story that, uh, got sent to us, which I, I, I found to be
pretty amazing because, um, this is a musician I'm, I'm quite familiar with.
Uh, his name is Ashley McGythin.
Uh, he's from, um, Nova Scotia, I believe.
Uh, and, uh, he is suing Google for $1.5 million, uh, saying inaccurate information led to,
um, a concert cancellation at the very least, a lot worse than that.
Uh, he, uh, basically, I'm going to play you a little bit of, uh, of one of his hits from
1995.
He, um, he had a hit, uh, um, internationally, uh, on this album called, Hi, How Are You?
Um, and, uh, recently Google alleged that, uh, he was a sex offender in an AI generated
summary of his life and career.
Uh, in fact, Ashley McIsaac is a three-time Juno award-winning musician.
And, um, he, uh, filed the claim in the Ontario Superior Court of Justice, asserting that Google
was liable for the foreseeable republication of its AI generated overview feature, which
previously published defamatory claims that he had been involved, or, in fact, uh, convicted
of multiple criminal offenses, including the sexual assault of a woman, uh, internet
luring involving a child, all kinds of horrible things.
Um, Google's AI overview also wrongly stated that McIsaac had been listed on the National
Sex Offender Registry for life.
None of this is true.
As the, um, creator and operator of the AI overview, Google is also liable for injuries
and losses arising from the AI overview's defective design, McIsaac's lawsuit says.
Google knew, or ought to have known, that the AI overview was imperfect and could return
information that was untrue.
He's suing Google for $500,000 in general damages, $500,000 in aggravated damages, and
$500,000 in punitive damages.
And honestly, I think he can get a lot more than that.
And those are Canadian dollars, too.
So I think he could get a lot more in American dollars.
Uh, he, um, claimed he had learned of the inaccurate information when the, uh, Sipaknakitik
First Nation canceled a concert appearance planned for 19th of December after members of the
public complained, citing the misinformation they read on Google.
The Sipaknakitik First Nation later issued a public apology to McIsaac saying decisions
were based on incorrect information generated through an AI-assisted search, which mistakenly
associated you with offenses unrelated to you.
We deeply regret the harm this caused to your reputation and livelihood.
That's a sincere apology, it looks like to me.
Uh, McIsaac previously told the Canadian press that the misinformation had left him with a
tangible fear about performing, adding, I feared for my own safety going on stage because
of what I was labeled as, and I don't know how long this will follow me.
And, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's a nightmare.
It's a nightmare when AI decides that you're guilty of something.
Uh, McIsaac's lawsuit alleges that Google had never contacted him or offered an apology
over the error, like the apology we just heard.
Google's cavalier and indifferent response to its publication of utterly false statements
claiming that McIsaac committed serious sexual offenses, including offenses involving children,
justifies the award of aggravated and or punitive damages.
At the very least, at the very least, you know, I, um, I asked Jim and I, uh, for an update
on this, you know, if there are any circumstances involving him and, uh, uh, uh, Jim and I was
very, um, uh, up front, uh, said very quickly, uh, to be absolutely clear.
And then in all bold, Ashley McIsaac is not a sex offender and is not listed on any sex offender
registry.
If you ask anything about Ashley McIsaac, I think that might be the first thing they
say, uh, but it's too late.
The harm has been done and you guys have to do a better job when, um, talking about human
beings and, and, uh, casting aspersions, you know, just like we all try to do, you know,
to try to get it right.
Try not to, uh, um, defame people and, and, and spread lies.
AI has to be held at least to that, uh, to that level.
What do you guys think?
So I think part of the thing that it makes me think of is that story about the guy with
the feather pillow and the rabbi says, open up the pillow and stand on top of the mountain
and open up the pillow and then go collect all the feathers.
And the guy's like, I can't collect all the feathers.
And the rabbi said, yeah, like you can't collect your words after they're out of your mouth.
But so that's thing.
Number one, I never heard that, but that's really good.
I like that.
Um, oh, every Jewish child has heard this story.
I promise you, but number two, and perhaps more importantly, I'm not quite sure how to
help you with that.
No one was talking to you.
Okay.
You know, you're the problem.
You're the problem.
Why don't you just shut up for a little while, but perhaps more importantly, um, I think this
isn't even Gemini that's the issue.
It is the AI quick response thing that automatically gets shoved into your Google searches unless
you specifically put subtract AI at the end of your search.
I didn't know you could do that.
Really?
You can do that.
Yeah.
You can turn off the automatic AI suggestions before you get any of your actual Google results.
Where do you subtract the AI from?
So at the end of your search string, so you like Ashley McIsaac and then space minus AI.
Wow.
Okay.
Right.
Because it's not Gemini.
It's this other thing.
And the other thing is like the quickest, uh, uh, what's the amalgamation of all the possible
search concepts.
But this is, I remember talking about this on the show in December when it happened and
he was like, this is going to chase me for the rest of my life.
We talked about this already.
I'm sorry.
I don't remember.
But the lawsuit is the new piece.
Okay.
All right.
Because he, they, you know, they apologized and they're like, you should come.
And he said, no, it's going to take me a while to reschedule with you guys.
Um, but yeah, the story about the feather pillow is a really good one too.
Wow.
Yeah.
And the, the thing about this is, um, so one of the, one of the main, uh, points of grief
about the whole AI slop era is that who's responsible for this.
If a person went online and started spreading, you know, rumors like this or assert assertions
like this about, uh, some public figure, they could in theory be sued for a slander or libel
or however that goes, they could be, you know, uh, held accountable for what they put out
there.
Look what happens when you put seashells on a beach, you know, but, um, you know, who, who
can be said to be the person who put this out there?
It's, it's, it's a robot controlled by Google.
And if Google doesn't have some accountability in this matter, then, uh, I don't, I don't
know what that, uh, what that says for the entire media environment, really.
Well, the dash AI is new.
So I'm sure when Ashley hears about that, he'll be happy that dash AI.
Okay.
That solves everything.
We just have to type that at the end.
Doesn't matter.
Oh yeah.
Fine.
Oh my God.
What a world.
All right.
Uh, one final story.
Then we'll open up, uh, phone lines.
Um, this is for people who are worried about, uh, um, uh, what's going over their phone network,
um, from reproductive rights to climate change, to big tech.
Um, oh wait, I'm reading a promo for the newspaper.
I'm sorry.
Um, why did they put that at the beginning of the story?
No, that's not, um, okay.
Sorry.
I almost gave a speech on why you should support, uh, the independent.
Um, yeah.
Uh, when does the story begin?
I'm sorry, folks.
This is, uh, okay.
Here it is.
Uh, a new Christian focused phone network that blocks pornography and LGBT content launches
this week because the two go hand in hand, right?
Yeah.
It's believed to be the first of its kind.
Well, I guess that's good news if there's no others, uh, launching yesterday, Radiant
Mobile's service will use Israeli cybersecurity firm, Allot, to organize website domains into
more than 100 categories and will block all pornographic material at a network level so
users cannot undo the restriction.
We'll just see about that.
Uh, Radiant is also said to offer the option of blocking material related to gender and trans issues.
We are going to create, and we think we have every right to do so, an environment that is Jesus-centric, that is void of pornography, void of LGBT, void of trans, said Radiant Mobile
founder Paul Fisher, previously an agent for supermodels, which I'm just going to avoid that part of the story completely.
So, uh, yeah, we're talking about erasing people's identities.
You think, uh, every right to do so, well, I guess, uh, this is what the courts are for.
Uh, Radiant is even able to block certain sections of a website dedicated to LGBT issues, uh, according to, um, uh, to, uh, Fisher, who, uh, also once hosted a TV show in which he tried to get people in rehab centers and homeless shelters, uh, into modeling.
I'm going to stop reading things that this guy has done in the past because they're just, they're pissing me off.
Uh, so, uh, basically here's the example of their, their, their great technology at work.
Yale.edu would not be blocked, but LGBT.yale.edu would be blocked.
This is technology that we had in the 1990s.
Any high school kid could do that.
This guy's making a living at this.
Uh, Radiant is a, as a mobile virtual network operator, uh, meaning it does not own any cell towers, but will buy bandwidth from larger providers.
In this particular case, the provider they're buying from is T-Mobile.
Those are the people to contact if this is upsetting you as much as this is upsetting me.
Um, they compare themselves to, uh, Trump's Trump mobile.
Of course they do.
Um, uh, a representative for T-Mobile did not, uh, comment on whether such content restrictions violate their policies.
Um, according to, uh, Fisher, Radiant has recruited Christian influencers to promote the initiative and has established relationships with thousands of churches across the U.S. proposing plans to have part of their congregants, uh, $30 per month Radiant subscription donated to their church.
It just goes on and on and on, but basically, you know, we're seeing yet another example of marginalized groups being attacked, being erased, uh, and, uh, high technology being used as a weapon against them.
Any, any thoughts on the best way to attack them first?
Go ahead, Gila.
It was, I, I dove into the Radiant mobile FAQ this morning and almost started crying.
It was awful.
Um, so you have the phone, um, and then you have an app that you have to put on the phone
and there's a lifetime subscription you can get, which will give you 20% off on your first
year and will waive the annual membership fee.
Cause of course there's also an annual membership fee.
And they have like apps and games that they're, they're trying to basically erase everything
south of the waste and replace it with the Bible.
And I'm so squicked out by this and I can't help but wonder if this guy who used to be the modeling agent has ever, I don't know, met people.
I'm trying to understand this.
So wait, you're saying everything south of the waste is replaced with a Bible.
I mean, that sounds kind of perverse if you think.
Well, this is the thing because they're very late.
They're not barring things that are violent.
I'm sure you can still play first person shooter games.
You just said the Bible, the Bible is pretty damn violent.
They're not.
I know it is, but they're also probably not banning the sexy parts of the Bible either.
Um, or, you know, does their Bible not include the song of songs?
All right.
Well, every second we're talking about this is a second away from our callers.
So let's, let's open up the phone lines and get a dose of sanity instead.
But boy, this is something I want to, um, I want to focus on a little bit more because
this kind of thing cannot stand.
802-321-4225 is our telephone number.
That's right.
It's not the usual BAI phone number.
It's our special phone number.
We are on live with a special call in addition of off the hook.
And, um, you can call 802-321-4225.
And let me just say, if you call the, um, um, the, um, YouTube version of the show, which
is on every week, please don't call this show because we want to open this up to people
who are, um, listening to WBAI.
So again, once, once more, 802-321-4225.
Oh, we have a call.
I didn't hear the phone ring.
All right.
Let's take this first call.
Good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
You want to open this up, people?
Yes, Emmanuel.
All right.
Rebel, let me just say right away.
Uh, I, I, I direct, maybe you didn't hear me.
I directed that to you, uh, that if you call the show every week and even when we're not
on, uh, please don't call this one so other people have a chance.
That's all.
I just would, would love for other people to occasionally talk to us.
802-321-4225.
Yes.
Cut them off.
Obviously.
Did you think I was going to have a conversation after that, Kyle?
I thought I was pretty clear.
802-321-4225 is our phone number.
Um, I'm sorry for anybody else trying to get through.
And if, um, uh, if you call when somebody else calls, uh, it winds up ringing.
And we have no access to that.
So, um, yeah, if somebody else is on the air, please just hang up and call back when they're
not.
And, uh, while we're waiting for that call, I will also remind folks that, uh, BAI needs
your support.
If you go to buddy.wbai.org and, uh, throw in what you can to keep us going on this, uh,
station, on this program, on this network, um, we would really appreciate it.
It's the only thing that keeps us on the air.
Go to buddy.wbai.org and, uh, do what you can to be part of, uh, what keeps us, what
keeps us on the air.
And don't forget to mention that you're becoming a buddy in the name of Off the Hook.
Basically tell them we sent you.
It helps.
It really does.
It really does.
It helps everybody.
Okay.
We don't have the phone call.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Go ahead.
Hello.
Can you hear me?
Yes.
We hear you fine.
Hey, thank you so much.
I love you guys.
Well, thanks for calling.
Thank you for the laugh, because once a year, I feel like we get hit with the, with the
dead people on voter rolls, but there's no, but they don't, they fail to tell you that
there's, that there's no fraud because, well, dead people can't vote, I think was the part
that you were missing that you just say, you know why, right?
Yeah.
I wanted to make sure that was set up.
Dead people can't vote.
That's why there's no fraud.
I love that.
That is one of the funniest things.
Yeah, it's something that, of course, people don't think it through, but it's, it's pretty
obvious.
Yeah, that was good.
And I love all the things you cover in technology.
I appreciate that so much.
I work as an engineer.
I actually work with a lot of y'all and I appreciate all the, all the work you do.
Thank you so much.
Well, thank you for calling.
We appreciate the support.
Take care.
Peace and love.
I don't know if he was near a truck backing up or what, there was a lot of beeping there.
Hard at work.
Hard at work.
Yeah, I'm sure.
Engineering things going on there.
That sounded very busy.
802-321-4225.
We're only on for another, I think 20 minutes or so.
So if you have something to say to us, this is a good time to call in and say it.
We have a phone call and good evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
On for another, I think.
You got to turn the radio down if you want to be on the radio.
You know what?
This is a good time to call in and.
Please turn the radio down.
Yeah.
On call.
And evening.
You're on off the hook.
Go ahead.
I've got any help.
You're on for another.
Okay, Rebel.
You're banned now for next week.
How do you like that?
And you can be banned for a lot longer than that, too.
Yeah, that's rude.
Yeah, and keep an eye out for that number if he calls back.
I'm not in charge of that anymore.
Oh, that's right.
It's over here now.
Well, I didn't see it.
All right.
I'm doing a bunch of other things.
I know you're busy.
All right.
802-321-4225.
Signal people.
It's not an entertainment show.
You're participating.
They are bemused.
I can tell.
They're sitting back with the popcorn and everything rolling on the floor.
No, they're.
Mm-hmm.
It's just nice to be part of all this.
While we're waiting for another call, the movie Joy Bubbles, the documentary, played
here in Queens this past weekend.
And I got to say, it was a great movie.
Check it out.
It's making the rounds of all sorts of screenings and film festivals and stuff with an eye toward
at some point in the future being widely available.
Joy Bubbles is the name of the film.
It's the name of its subject.
And it's worth a shot.
Okay.
And we have another phone call.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Go ahead.
Hi.
Well, my compliments for the good work.
Keep it up.
Thank you.
I understand you were discussing some sort of scandal.
But, you know, I am very wary of these electoral scandals.
And, you know, of course, today the papers or the media were full of how Trump triumphed
in Indiana without mentioning that he triumphed with his Republican base.
And, you know, it's not like he already won the election.
But...
Right.
No, you're absolutely right.
I felt the same thing because, yeah, they're talking about him winning by having his candidate
beat another Republican.
And the only reason he supported that candidate was because the other one defied him.
And if you dare to defy him, he'll come after you.
I think a more concerning case was what happened today where a state politician in Virginia
had her offices raided by the FBI when she played a major part in the district remapping
in that state that was victorious a week or so ago.
And that is the kind of thing, it's a purge that we can look forward to.
If you piss him off in any way, the feds are going to come for you no matter what you're
involved in.
And that we should all be scared of.
Exactly.
And don't forget that the Virginia remapping has been blocked by the Virginia highest court.
So basically, in spite of the will of the electors, the court said, no, no, no, no, no.
The question was formulated ambiguously.
Some conservative group sued.
And basically, of course, the campaign for the redistricted also made a motion.
But that thing is still undecided.
Well, I don't think that's going to stand in court.
But if you talk to people, though, on the conservative side, their view,
literally is that this should hold for Republicans, but Democrats should not be allowed to do it.
That is literally what they say.
They don't care anymore.
They're not hiding.
They believe in a one party state.
And they are now fighting to get that.
That's exactly it.
And, you know, just like with the corruption, oh, we're not hiding anymore.
It's out in the open.
Everything else, you know, every aspect of political public life is with the same criteria.
We don't care.
It's us versus them.
The ballroom, the ballroom, for instance, you know, that was going to be paid for by private funds.
And now, well, we just had this incident at the correspondence dinner.
So now, no, we have to pay taxpayer money, a billion dollars because of that.
You know, within minutes, they had that ready to go.
It is so corrupt.
It's not even funny.
It's just badly done.
And nobody's falling for it.
Yes.
And, you know, the important thing is that people keep paying attention and are not demoralized
and are not turned away from going to the polls.
You know, as difficult and bothersome as they make it, that's the only way that things may change.
And I'll leave someone else to speak as well.
All right.
Well, thanks.
Thanks for that call.
And thanks for raising those points.
Yeah, it's hard not to be discouraged, especially with what the Supreme Court did last week.
And when people see that they're getting no representation, you know, you might see reactions
that are unfortunate.
Let's put it that way.
But we shouldn't be surprised.
You keep pushing people like this, bad things will happen.
It happens anywhere in the world.
Why wouldn't it happen here?
So we have to fight back.
We have to make sure that people are represented, that everybody is able to vote, and that our
votes mean something and not deal with this nonsense anymore.
Kyle.
Yeah.
It's that thing, you know, that is people's recourse.
It should be protected.
They should be, you know, be able to access the civic duty that is voting.
And when you deny that and take it away, you're demoralizing the populace.
And it's, I think, it's incredibly dangerous.
But of course, you know, they won't say that we're denying it.
They'll say, you know, we're letting you vote.
It's just not going to count.
And you got to prove that, you know, we're doing this based on race.
Yeah, we're going to admit that.
We're going to say that out loud.
Of course they don't do that.
That's not how bullies work, you know?
They will keep getting away with it, and they'll get powerful people on their side.
It's disgusting, but I don't think it's fooling anybody.
Well, you can't allow that because people will get, they do get sort of pushed to desperation.
And that's, I mean, you have to keep the pressure on and shine light on these tactics and make sure that that ability to change the system that we have is available to people.
And let's not kid ourselves.
We have a very long history of political violence in this country.
That we're in a relative period of peace is maybe a pleasant abnormality in that long history and in the history of the world, even.
I mean, come on.
The reason that we uphold these institutions is so that we don't go back to those tactics.
And I think, you know, as long as we don't give up, we will always keep our humor, keep our confidence, keep our solidarity, and we win in the end.
There are so many people who have been through so much worse and have won.
All right, let's take a phone call.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Go ahead.
Speak up.
I'm from Queens.
I can probably hear you guys.
You're calling from Queens?
You're very choppy.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
So now it's your turn to not be able to hear me.
We hear you.
It's like you're in a helicopter, though.
But go ahead.
We'll try and make you out.
No, I'm on the LIE.
Oh, okay.
So anyway, Google, all right.
So you know how software tries to, like, be helpful and, like, oh, your hard disk space is running low.
You know, you have, like, 1% of your hard disk left.
I have a whole hard disk left, and Google goes through my phone and, like, books for things to delete,
and it found, not very large files, but some naughty files.
And it's like, these files specifically, you should delete these files to save you 50 megabytes of space
on where I have, like, five gigs free.
You should delete.
I'm like, what?
Why is it doing this?
It should have said, you should delete these files to avoid some unpleasant questions later.
Yeah, maybe.
I mean, it doesn't matter.
But I don't know who told it to do these things, but I had a question.
It's intelligent.
That's the answer.
They're intelligent?
Well, that's their answer, that, you know, it's intelligence, and they're just doing what makes sense.
But oftentimes it doesn't make sense to us illogical humans.
No, we're very illogical.
Do you guys take mail and then read it online, on the air?
Yeah, absolutely.
Email mostly, because, you know, we don't, I don't remember last time we checked the mailbox at the station.
But, yeah.
I've sent some things before and, like, never heard it.
Well, I mean, not every piece gets read on the air, but it all does get read.
I don't recall any piece, but it's all right.
Maybe you can start doing it.
All right.
That's all I had.
Okay.
Thanks for your call.
And drive carefully.
All right.
Thanks.
Take care.
OTH at 2600.com is our email address, by the way, in case you want to be a person that emails us.
And maybe have your email read over the air.
Alex, I wanted to ask you what you thought of the Supreme Court ruling last week.
And give out the phone number one more time.
802-321-4225.
Which ruling are you talking about there?
Oh, which ruling am I talking about?
The one everyone's talking about.
I really am not sure.
The voting rights?
Oh, God.
Well, you know, I've been traveling a lot.
So I've...
Are you traveling in a different world?
Because I'd love to be there.
I really would.
Yeah.
I honestly have not kept up on that particular opinion.
So I don't feel comfortable opining on it at the moment.
But, you know, I've been kind of busy going back and forth across the Atlantic.
So it's...
Plenty of time to read up on some legal briefs, but fine.
Next week.
Next week we'll have a detailed discussion about this.
We can do that.
Yeah.
So our phone number 802-321-4225 thought I'd kill some time by talking to the legal expert
about the legal story of the year.
But, no.
So, Rob, how are you?
I'm doing well.
I'm still thinking about that previous caller whose phone started suggesting that they download...
They delete certain naughty files, I think was the term.
And the one idea that came to mind is that sometimes these things can suggest that you
delete phones you haven't used in a while.
So maybe if this person made more frequent use of their naughty files, they wouldn't be
suggested for deletion.
Oh, so basically look at the porn more, and then it won't be the first thing used as an
example of something you can delete.
I think that's the only solution available.
It'll be seen as a necessary file.
Absolutely.
All right.
We have a phone call?
All right.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Go ahead.
Hi.
Good evening.
You were talking about dead people not voting.
I'd just like to remind you of the old saying about Chicago, that there used to be one zip
code with a perfect voting record.
Guess which zip code it was.
It probably was.
I don't know why a cemetery would have a zip code, but it probably was a zip code that
belonged to the cemetery.
That was the old thing about Chicago.
So it was the old thing.
I don't know if you remember hearing that, but I've heard that for a long time.
I guess I'm a little older, maybe a little older than you.
But that's one thing that's really been around for a long time.
Wow.
With voting.
Okay.
Have you ever heard of it?
No, I never have, actually.
But it sounds right about Chicago, correct?
Well, I'm not going to say anything about Chicago, because I'd like to visit there again.
But yes.
You know.
I just don't visit Chicago.
But anyway, that's what I heard.
Very long time ago.
It must be 40 or 50 years ago.
Wow.
All right.
All right.
Thank you.
Well, thanks for that.
It gives us something to think about.
We have about five minutes left.
So if you want to say hi to us, we do this about once a month on WBAI.
And you can basically bring up anything you want.
But we don't have very much time.
So we're going to try and squeeze in as many as we can.
802-321-4225.
It's not a toll call or anything like that.
Well, you know, it's in Vermont.
Yeah.
The phone number is in Vermont, virtually.
But, you know, who pays for calls to Vermont anymore?
They're just like every other call.
So 802-321-4225.
And talk to Off the Hook and WBAI.
I'll comment on the Voting Rights Act changes.
I guess the last part of what was changed was the ability for people to sue.
And it's actually contradictory compared to, I think, Roberts having actually argued or been involved in some of the earlier aspects of the Voting Rights Act in his career.
But now we're – and in 2013, part of it was removed that had some other powers.
But this is the last bit of it that at one point some of the justices –
This is why the phone screener can't be –
We're supportive of.
All right.
Thanks for that.
And let's take it from the phone call.
Good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Go ahead.
Yes.
I'm curious why it seems in the last couple of years your radio show ends so early, eight or ten minutes before the hour.
Didn't seem to be used to do that.
No, that's a good observation, actually.
We're told to end all shows by five of.
If for some reason, though, and I got to say this, it never seems to apply to the show before us.
That always ends right on the hour.
Whatever.
I'm not complaining.
But five of is when you're supposed to cut off because that gives the station time to have promos and things like that.
And we like to play a musical outro.
And sometimes that musical outro is three or four minutes long, so that adds another four minutes to it.
Sometimes it's eight minutes long.
Well, we try not to, you know, play the ballad too much.
Okay, seven minutes with two minutes of talking over the track.
Yeah.
But good question.
Good question.
Anything else?
Great.
Well, thanks for enlightening.
All right.
Thank you.
802-321-4225.
Only have a couple of minutes left.
Yeah.
Anyone else have anything to contribute?
Just a shout out to our frequent caller with the dog who so often calls our show.
He was there at the Joy Bubble screening and we hung out there for a bit and the dog was very good, as always.
How was the film presented for people who couldn't see?
It was presented for all sorts of special needs.
It was presented with open captions, so you saw subtitles.
And it was presented with open audio descriptions, which was a narrator describing what was going on on the screen for those who couldn't see the screen.
And the sighted people in the audience got to experience this as well and learn what it's like for somebody without vision to experience a film.
So, I think it was very interesting all around.
Cool.
Okay.
Well, 802-321-4225, we seem to have a...
Phone line is open.
Phone line is wide open, but we only have, oh, about a minute and a half.
Make it quick.
Yeah, make it quick.
And there's delay in our talking and getting out on the internet.
But we need to know.
We need to know what you hacked or what you are observing needs to be known about because of its vulnerabilities or perhaps some social commentary or a legal question.
Or community radio excitement because you want to give and find out how to support WBAI.
All very important things.
802-321-4225.
I only have about a minute left.
So, support WBAI by going to WBAI.org or buddy.wbai.org, pledging whatever you can afford.
And we seem to have a call.
Let's do this one quickly.
All right.
And good evening.
You're on Off the Hook.
Go ahead.
Hey, what are we talking about about this voting thing?
That's a bit vague.
Which voting thing?
We've talked about the voting thing that the other people didn't, the other guy didn't know about.
Yeah.
Well, the voting rights side.
But there's really not enough time and 30 seconds to get into it.
I think next week we'll just talk about it some more and how it relates to technology and hackers and things like that.
Is there anything else on your mind?
Yeah, the same old stuff.
You know, I'll take over the world.
I'll overthrow Trump and the whole government.
They're all on the same side.
That kind of thing, you know.
Everybody should be on board with the whole conspiracy theories are true.
Epstein, you know, and the whole thing.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
The whole world is written on it.
I mean.
Yeah, I hear you.
There's all kinds of conspiracies out there.
And we just don't have enough time to get to all of them because we're out of time now.
Too bad this call didn't come in earlier.
But next time for sure.
Thank you for calling.
Thank you, everybody, for listening.
Please write to us, OTH at 2600.com.
We'd love to hear from all of you.
Next week, we'll be back on YouTube at 8 o'clock after this show.
This week, though, we will not be on YouTube.
We'll be here again also next week at 7 p.m. on WBAI.
We urge you to keep listening to WBAI 99.5 FM in New York City because you never know what you're going to hear next.
And it's always going to be fascinating and interesting.
All right.
In the meantime, write to us, OTH at 2600.com, with news stories or enlightenment you want to share with us.
And we may even talk about it next week.
Good night, everyone.
Thank you.
Some things have never changed
That's just the way it is