WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:16.000 Microsoft has released a warning of an aggressive virus which is affecting a large number of PC users. 00:16.000 --> 00:25.000 Microsoft has stated that the virus will attack Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows Server, and NT4 operating systems. 00:25.000 --> 00:32.000 Users who have not previously applied the security patch MS03-026 are at risk. 00:32.000 --> 00:35.000 This is not a hardware issue with your computer. 00:35.000 --> 00:46.000 The resolution to the problem can be found at www.microsoft.com slash security slash incident slash blast.asp. 00:46.000 --> 00:51.000 Due to this virus, our hold times are averaging 25 to 30 minutes. 00:51.000 --> 01:05.000 Again, if you are experiencing the effects of this virus, your best resolution is to go to www.microsoft.com slash security slash incident slash blast.asp. 01:05.000 --> 01:14.000 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers. 01:14.000 --> 01:16.000 To the hackers and the crackers. 01:16.000 --> 01:19.000 I see in binary, I speak source code. 01:19.000 --> 01:23.000 Step on my toes, I'll post a million game pegs of you in a fag pose. 01:23.000 --> 01:26.000 In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho. 01:26.000 --> 01:28.000 Cause I'm riding the net in my six foe. 01:28.000 --> 01:30.000 I was a dick with my 56. 01:30.000 --> 01:33.000 Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable. 01:33.000 --> 01:35.000 On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo. 01:35.000 --> 01:39.000 On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero. 01:39.000 --> 01:41.000 In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dream caps. 01:41.000 --> 01:43.000 You need some ISOs? 01:43.000 --> 01:45.000 Let me do my hard drive rifle. 01:45.000 --> 01:47.000 Our exchange you could never stifle. 01:47.000 --> 01:50.000 In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug. 01:50.000 --> 01:51.000 I bootlegged your CD. 01:51.000 --> 01:54.000 I caused the fight between Un and Jay-Z. 01:54.000 --> 01:56.000 To CG, it's all gonna be free. 01:56.000 --> 01:59.000 Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely. 01:59.000 --> 02:01.000 You feel that rattle in your bones? 02:01.000 --> 02:03.000 When I tell you we just hacked out Jones. 02:03.000 --> 02:05.000 And NASDAQ, leave you flat on your back. 02:05.000 --> 02:07.000 Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 02:07.000 --> 02:10.000 Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 02:10.000 --> 02:13.000 This is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers. 02:13.000 --> 02:18.000 Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RAMs, SIPs, SISs. 02:18.000 --> 02:22.000 Dedicated to the hackers and the crackers. 02:22.000 --> 02:26.000 All right, ladies and gentlemen, I am StankDawg. 02:26.000 --> 02:31.000 And you just got done listening to a little customer support call 02:31.000 --> 02:37.000 that I made to Toshiba about my laptop, which I mentioned last week is DOA. 02:37.000 --> 02:41.000 So when I first called, that's the message that you get. 02:41.000 --> 02:44.000 I guess they're getting a lot of calls for the good old blaster virus 02:44.000 --> 02:46.000 that we talked about and it's still going around. 02:46.000 --> 02:49.000 So I played that in the opening. 02:49.000 --> 02:52.000 And you might have also noticed in the opening 02:52.000 --> 02:56.000 that we didn't have mute's theme music this week. 02:56.000 --> 02:57.000 Hmm. 02:57.000 --> 03:00.000 Well, we didn't play mute's music. 03:00.000 --> 03:04.000 Well, then we also didn't play dual parallels music. 03:04.000 --> 03:07.000 So I guess I'm going to be flying solo today. 03:07.000 --> 03:11.000 So you're going to have to put up with my voice alone for the next hour 03:11.000 --> 03:13.000 unless I can come up with... 03:13.000 --> 03:15.000 Oh, wait a minute. 03:15.000 --> 03:17.000 My phone is on. 03:17.000 --> 03:18.000 Is somebody on the line? 03:18.000 --> 03:20.000 I think there might be. 03:20.000 --> 03:22.000 And who is the mystery guest? 03:22.000 --> 03:24.000 Sign in, please. 03:24.000 --> 03:26.000 Mystery guest is not theory this week. 03:26.000 --> 03:28.000 Not theory in the house. 03:28.000 --> 03:29.000 In the house. 03:30.000 --> 03:31.000 Mute's tagline. 03:31.000 --> 03:32.000 We're stealing it for everything. 03:32.000 --> 03:34.000 Well, welcome to the show. 03:34.000 --> 03:37.000 And I'm sure a lot of the listeners know you from the forums. 03:37.000 --> 03:38.000 Yes, good to be here. 03:38.000 --> 03:40.000 Been trying to get you on here for a while 03:40.000 --> 03:42.000 and we just haven't been able to get the timing worked out. 03:42.000 --> 03:43.000 So I'm glad to have you on. 03:43.000 --> 03:45.000 I've got a lot of stuff to talk about. 03:45.000 --> 03:47.000 Um, but before we do... 03:47.000 --> 03:50.000 Actually, I'm going to jump into a couple emails I got from last week, 03:50.000 --> 03:51.000 if that's alright with you. 03:51.000 --> 03:52.000 Yeah, go for it. 03:52.000 --> 03:53.000 Um, I got... 03:53.000 --> 03:54.000 And this is... 03:54.000 --> 03:55.000 You know what? 03:55.000 --> 03:56.000 I'm going to read this email. 03:56.000 --> 03:59.000 And frankly, I don't necessarily have an answer to this 03:59.000 --> 04:02.000 because mute's more the ham guy, the radio guy. 04:02.000 --> 04:05.000 Um, but I got an email from Total Blackout. 04:05.000 --> 04:06.000 And it says... 04:06.000 --> 04:08.000 Uh, let's see. 04:08.000 --> 04:11.000 If the idea that you guys had about making something that would block 04:11.000 --> 04:15.000 or jam the signal of the RFID tag, 13.56, 04:15.000 --> 04:18.000 this again was something we talked about last week, 04:18.000 --> 04:20.000 or whatever that was works would be awesome. 04:20.000 --> 04:22.000 But I have a question about this. 04:22.000 --> 04:24.000 I hope you can help me figure it out. 04:24.000 --> 04:27.000 Well, I probably can't, but let's see what we can do. 04:27.000 --> 04:28.000 If for... 04:28.000 --> 04:29.000 Let's see. 04:29.000 --> 04:31.000 If for made... 04:31.000 --> 04:33.000 Hmm, not sure of the English here. 04:33.000 --> 04:35.000 Uh, if you made a device that is portable, 04:35.000 --> 04:37.000 like something you can hold in your hand 04:37.000 --> 04:40.000 or put in your car or whatever to jam the signal, 04:40.000 --> 04:43.000 wouldn't that device all... 04:43.000 --> 04:46.000 Wouldn't that device fall under the FCC's Part 15 rule, 04:46.000 --> 04:49.000 which in turn would make it illegal to, quote, 04:49.000 --> 04:51.000 cause harmful interference? 04:52.000 --> 04:54.000 So I hope I didn't mangle that up too. 04:54.000 --> 04:55.000 I was stumbling over the words there. 04:55.000 --> 04:56.000 I got it formatted funny on here. 04:56.000 --> 04:59.000 But basically, I guess what he's saying is, 04:59.000 --> 05:02.000 are we causing harmful interference? 05:02.000 --> 05:05.000 And again, frankly, I don't know the answer. 05:05.000 --> 05:07.000 I wish I did. 05:07.000 --> 05:08.000 You know who... 05:08.000 --> 05:09.000 Jaga would know this for sure. 05:09.000 --> 05:11.000 If he's listening, email me back, 05:11.000 --> 05:14.000 or we'll see if we can get an answer to this. 05:14.000 --> 05:16.000 I know you probably can next week. 05:16.000 --> 05:17.000 Give us an answer. 05:17.000 --> 05:19.000 I think I might have a little bit of insight into this. 05:19.000 --> 05:20.000 Please, by all means. 05:20.000 --> 05:26.000 Part 15 rule says that all devices that fall under Part 15 must accept harmful interference, 05:26.000 --> 05:30.000 or must accept interference that is caused by any other device. 05:30.000 --> 05:34.000 But I think they mean by any other licensed device aside from Part 15. 05:34.000 --> 05:39.000 So a Part 15 device has to accept interference, but can't cause harmful interference to anything else. 05:39.000 --> 05:43.000 If you cause interference unintentionally, then you can probably get away with it. 05:43.000 --> 05:49.000 But if you have a box to block RFIDs, I think you'd have a hard time saying that it's not harmful interference. 05:49.000 --> 05:50.000 I could be wrong. 05:50.000 --> 05:51.000 I'm not totally sure about that. 05:51.000 --> 05:52.000 I haven't really got a chance. 05:52.000 --> 05:56.000 Yeah, we'll definitely check with Mute next week and see what he has to say. 05:56.000 --> 05:58.000 But that sounds very reasonable. 05:58.000 --> 06:01.000 I guess, though, it's kind of... 06:01.000 --> 06:02.000 Well, I don't know. 06:02.000 --> 06:03.000 Is it difficult? 06:03.000 --> 06:05.000 I was going to say maybe it's kind of difficult to judge intent. 06:05.000 --> 06:10.000 I mean, isn't it a little ironic or a little strange? 06:10.000 --> 06:12.000 Do I not have... 06:12.000 --> 06:14.000 By doing what we suggested last week... 06:14.000 --> 06:18.000 And let me back up and refresh the listeners who didn't hear this discussion last week. 06:18.000 --> 06:20.000 I'll kind of summarize. 06:20.000 --> 06:27.000 We talked about creating a device, a small, low-power device that could... 06:27.000 --> 06:36.000 A person could carry around with them to jam RFID sweepers or RFID listeners so that you couldn't be tracked so easily. 06:36.000 --> 06:41.000 Obviously, theoretically, all this is just, you know, what if and could it work that way? 06:41.000 --> 06:57.000 So, I guess they're telling me that by making that device and sending out disruptor signals or more overpowering signals or blocking signals at that frequency that that is causing harmful interference. 06:57.000 --> 07:10.000 I don't really like the idea of that because that's also, at the same time, telling me I don't have the right to take action to protect my privacy. 07:10.000 --> 07:12.000 True. Very true. 07:12.000 --> 07:14.000 I don't really like the sound of that. 07:14.000 --> 07:17.000 I mean, I understand that that's the rule, and there's probably very good... 07:17.000 --> 07:19.000 I'm sure there... I know there's very good reason for it. 07:19.000 --> 07:24.000 But at the same time, it does cross into a privacy aspect. 07:24.000 --> 07:26.000 I'm not sure how to feel about that, frankly. 07:26.000 --> 07:29.000 I just kind of put myself on the spot there. 07:29.000 --> 07:42.000 In theory, I guess if you could create another device on the same frequency that actually had, like, a useful purpose or something like that, maybe some two-way radio or something, you could argue that, yeah, it interferes with RFID, but it's not causing harmful interference because it has a valid purpose. 07:42.000 --> 07:45.000 Yeah, it's very difficult to prove intent. 07:45.000 --> 07:50.000 So, I mean, even if I made the device, I could say that it was, you know, I intended it to... 07:50.000 --> 07:55.000 Hell, I could play crazy and say I intended to block aliens from reading my mind. 07:55.000 --> 07:58.000 I mean, how are they going to judge my intent, you know? 07:58.000 --> 07:59.000 Yeah. 07:59.000 --> 08:00.000 Hmm. 08:00.000 --> 08:01.000 That's interesting. 08:01.000 --> 08:04.000 That is an interesting thing to think about. 08:04.000 --> 08:07.000 Technically, by the letter of the law, you may be right. 08:07.000 --> 08:08.000 Total blackout. 08:08.000 --> 08:09.000 You may be right with that. 08:09.000 --> 08:12.000 But, like everything else, how would you prove it? 08:12.000 --> 08:13.000 How would they prove that in court? 08:13.000 --> 08:16.000 How would they catch you or bust you on something like that? 08:16.000 --> 08:19.000 And, honestly, how and when and where could they catch you? 08:19.000 --> 08:27.000 I mean, nobody's going to realize what the hell you're doing in the first place unless you go back and they happen to recognize you from going into the same Walmart over and over. 08:27.000 --> 08:33.000 Every time Stank Dog walks in the building, all of a sudden the RFIT gags get fucked up and nobody can check out. 08:33.000 --> 08:36.000 Yeah, they might associate it with through repetition, but... 08:36.000 --> 08:39.000 Yeah, but the FCC guys aren't going to be waiting in the bushes for you. 08:39.000 --> 08:40.000 No, exactly. 08:40.000 --> 08:41.000 Exactly. 08:41.000 --> 08:42.000 Hmm. 08:42.000 --> 08:44.000 No, that's a very interesting point. 08:44.000 --> 08:45.000 That was a good email. 08:45.000 --> 08:47.000 I did get another email from... 08:47.000 --> 08:49.000 Well, I guess we'll leave it anonymous. 08:49.000 --> 08:50.000 We won't give out a... 08:50.000 --> 08:52.000 It was signed with a real name, which I'm not going to read. 08:52.000 --> 08:55.000 But this, I thought, was a pretty good question. 08:55.000 --> 08:57.000 It takes me back to the old school a little bit. 08:57.000 --> 08:58.000 He says, 08:58.000 --> 09:08.000 Do hackers use anything else besides a regular modem, a war dialing program, to dial up hack, like special equipment? 09:08.000 --> 09:09.000 Okay, I'm trying... 09:09.000 --> 09:11.000 Again, I'm formatting pretty bad here. 09:11.000 --> 09:13.000 Let me start over because I'm chopping up this email. 09:13.000 --> 09:19.000 Do hackers use anything else besides a regular modem, a war dialing program, to dial up hack, like special equipment? 09:19.000 --> 09:23.000 How do hackers get their modem to connect to the target modem? 09:23.000 --> 09:28.000 Well, we used to have... 09:28.000 --> 09:32.000 First of all, war dialing I haven't done in years. 09:32.000 --> 09:33.000 Years. 09:33.000 --> 09:52.000 And funny that, if anything, the guys in the Freaks and Geeks forum, the guys and girls in the Freaks and Geeks forum, might know more about this than I do because that has become a more useful tool for the freaks to try to find their different magic numbers that they like to play with. 09:52.000 --> 09:54.000 The extenders and stuff like that. 09:54.000 --> 10:03.000 But back in the day, you know what, just totally off the top of my head, the movie War Games comes to mind. 10:03.000 --> 10:06.000 There was a war dialing scene in War Games. 10:06.000 --> 10:12.000 It's basically a piece of software that you put on your computer and it goes... 10:12.000 --> 10:15.000 Yes, it requires a regular, plain old modem. 10:15.000 --> 10:22.000 Now back, I remember we used to have an old 300-bar modem that you put the handset, the old-fashioned round handsets in. 10:22.000 --> 10:23.000 Yeah, very nice. 10:23.000 --> 10:24.000 Yep. 10:24.000 --> 10:35.000 Oh, I wish I had one of those just to hang on the wall, just to look at because, man, that was really one of the most, one of the first things that I thought, you know, that really reminds me of hacking when I first started getting into it, was using that. 10:35.000 --> 10:42.000 And it was so cool, I wish I had one now just to look at, just as a... I do not have one. I'm looking around the room now, I do not have one. 10:42.000 --> 10:43.000 I think I have one. 10:43.000 --> 10:44.000 I think I do have one. 10:44.000 --> 10:45.000 Oh. 10:45.000 --> 10:47.000 If I can find it, I'll take some pictures of it for you. 10:47.000 --> 10:48.000 Oh yeah, we'll put those up. 10:48.000 --> 10:51.000 That's definitely a throwback to the old school. 10:51.000 --> 10:52.000 Alright. 10:52.000 --> 11:03.000 But basically, no matter what kind of modem you use, you are going to basically put in a sequence of numbers and it's going to just start dialing them, thus the term war dialing. 11:03.000 --> 11:15.000 So you can start with, I'll make up, what's, I don't know, what's Miami area code, 305 area code, and start with, you know, 001, 002, 003, et cetera. 11:15.000 --> 11:19.000 You pick an A&I and you start going through it from number one and dialing them up. 11:19.000 --> 11:24.000 Obviously, if a person answers, that's of little or no interest to a hacker. 11:24.000 --> 11:50.000 If something else answers, whether it be a fax machine, another computer, again, an extender or some type of phone equipment, which is why the freaks are more into it now than the hackers, depending on what answers it and depending on what software you use, again, unfortunately, I can't recommend any now because I haven't used them in years, but it will mark down what answered, whether it was a fax machine, whether it was a computer. 11:50.000 --> 11:55.000 And you can go back to that number later and follow up on it and see what it was. 11:55.000 --> 12:04.000 It was a great way to find underground BBSs, find a lot of hacking sites that were run by somebody out of their basement. 12:04.000 --> 12:11.000 They just had their modem set to incoming calls and you could log on and go through the doors and all that kind of good stuff. 12:11.000 --> 12:14.000 Unfortunately, that's gone the way of the dinosaur. 12:14.000 --> 12:16.000 Those are, for the most part, extinct. 12:16.000 --> 12:29.000 Everybody that was running those has moved to the web and moved to the internet and moved to forums, etc., etc., so they're very few and far between anymore, which is the reason why hackers really don't get into it too much anymore. 12:29.000 --> 12:39.000 Yes, we still do, and yes, there are still things out there that will pick up, but they're very specific into what you're dialing in and what you can do for it. 12:39.000 --> 12:48.000 As far as software and how would you, what do you do once you get a number, which I think is what he was alluding to in his question, well, that all depends on what answered. 12:48.000 --> 13:00.000 Obviously, if a fax machine picks up, you know, you can do whatever, you can spam the fax machine, you can take it down, you can do whatever you want to do with it. 13:00.000 --> 13:03.000 It's very passe, very, you know, there's not much to that. 13:03.000 --> 13:05.000 That's kind of boring to me. 13:05.000 --> 13:15.000 But, like I said, if you found a BBS, if you found, gosh, anything answering on the other end, you would have to feel out what it is. 13:15.000 --> 13:22.000 You'd open up Kermit, open up some type of terminal application, and throw some commands at this thing. 13:22.000 --> 13:25.000 Dial that number directly, of course, now that you have the number from war dialing. 13:25.000 --> 13:28.000 Dial into it and see what it prompts you with. 13:28.000 --> 13:36.000 Back then, you could identify what kind of system it was based on the way it would prompt you for your username and password, if there was one. 13:36.000 --> 13:44.000 And sometimes, if it was something you'd never seen before, you'd just kind of have to throw commands at it, play around with it, see what it does, see if it comes up with a menu system. 13:44.000 --> 13:50.000 It's very similar to Telnet emulation today, so to speak. 13:50.000 --> 13:54.000 You can't just, and maybe you can back me up on this one. 13:54.000 --> 13:56.000 Telnet is not Telnet. 13:56.000 --> 13:59.000 I have this argument with Unix people a lot. 13:59.000 --> 14:01.000 Telnet is not plain old Telnet. 14:01.000 --> 14:03.000 I've had somebody tell me that before. 14:03.000 --> 14:05.000 Telnet is Telnet. 14:05.000 --> 14:06.000 Well, no, it's not really. 14:06.000 --> 14:10.000 There's different emulation that you need when you Telnet into different systems. 14:10.000 --> 14:18.000 And people who are limited only to Unix, you know you're using a VT100 connection that, you know, it's nothing fancy. 14:18.000 --> 14:22.000 It's just a command line, and it's pretty straightforward because it's nothing but scrolling. 14:22.000 --> 14:28.000 Well, if you Telnet into an AS400 system, for example, you have to have a certain type of emulation. 14:28.000 --> 14:30.000 They don't throw back scrolling text. 14:30.000 --> 14:31.000 They throw up menus. 14:31.000 --> 14:34.000 They throw up screens to you. 14:34.000 --> 14:38.000 And you have to be able to interpret those screens or it's going to come through all garbled. 14:38.000 --> 14:40.000 And that's where emulation comes in. 14:40.000 --> 14:44.000 If you want to Telnet to an AS400 system, you use 5250 emulation. 14:44.000 --> 14:48.000 If you want to Telnet to some mainframe systems, you use 3270 emulation. 14:48.000 --> 14:51.000 And there's just lists and lists and lists of them. 14:51.000 --> 14:55.000 Yeah, there's VT100, VT102, VT220, VT52, ANSI. 14:55.000 --> 14:57.000 There's just too many to even list. 14:57.000 --> 14:58.000 Yeah, exactly. 14:58.000 --> 15:01.000 And it all depends on what's answering on the other side. 15:01.000 --> 15:02.000 What are they emulating? 15:02.000 --> 15:06.000 What do you need to emulate to them on the other side on the server? 15:06.000 --> 15:10.000 And the reason I bring this up is because it's very similar to what it used to be with warding. 15:10.000 --> 15:14.000 How do you know, once you get a number from warding, how do you know what software to use? 15:14.000 --> 15:16.000 How do you know how to access it? 15:16.000 --> 15:17.000 How do you know how to hack it? 15:17.000 --> 15:18.000 How do you know how to whatever? 15:18.000 --> 15:21.000 You have to wing it and figure out exactly what it's doing. 15:21.000 --> 15:25.000 Yeah, sometimes you'll disconnect and it'll just spit back garbage. 15:25.000 --> 15:28.000 And you have to change the stop bits and the parity and all that other stuff. 15:28.000 --> 15:29.000 Exactly. 8N1. 15:29.000 --> 15:31.000 Yep, or 7E1 or 7E1. 15:31.000 --> 15:32.000 8N1. 15:32.000 --> 15:34.000 Everybody locked into 8N1. 15:34.000 --> 15:40.000 Except if you found something really weird, sometimes you'll see like 7S3 or something or 7S2. 15:40.000 --> 15:43.000 There's some crazy stuff out there if you keep looking. 15:43.000 --> 15:44.000 Right. 15:44.000 --> 15:48.000 And you know, like, well, I know everybody hates to mention this, but the movie hackers, 15:48.000 --> 15:53.000 they hacked into this television thing with the robotic arm and stuff like that. 15:53.000 --> 15:55.000 I'm sure that was some very customized thing. 15:55.000 --> 15:56.000 They Hollywooded it up. 15:56.000 --> 15:59.000 Somebody just dials a number and all of a sudden they're controlling robot arms. 15:59.000 --> 16:01.000 No, it doesn't quite work like that. 16:01.000 --> 16:05.000 You have to do a lot of figuring out of what's on the other end and how to access it. 16:05.000 --> 16:07.000 And, of course, the security involved. 16:07.000 --> 16:09.000 And it's a big mess. 16:09.000 --> 16:12.000 Not as simple as Hollywood would make it out sometimes. 16:12.000 --> 16:15.000 But I think that answers your question. 16:15.000 --> 16:22.000 You have to figure out what the server, and when you're dialing something else up, that is the server on the other end that you're connecting to. 16:22.000 --> 16:25.000 You have to figure out what that target is running. 16:25.000 --> 16:31.000 For example, AOL gives you dial up numbers, local access numbers. 16:31.000 --> 16:33.000 You dial, and any ISP does. 16:33.000 --> 16:35.000 I use AOL as an example because they suck. 16:35.000 --> 16:40.000 But AOL gives you a dial up number and you dial it up. 16:40.000 --> 16:47.000 You have AOL client software, which is an emulation, so to speak, which is an interface with AOL. 16:47.000 --> 17:00.000 So it traverses that network and it throws up all the commands back and forth and does all the interpreting to give you all those wonderful spam, pop-up, and child pornography rooms that everyone loves so much. 17:00.000 --> 17:03.000 So that software is customized for that AOL connection. 17:03.000 --> 17:08.000 If you didn't have AOL and you dialed into that, who knows what you'd be faced with. 17:08.000 --> 17:11.000 You'd probably get a bunch of gibberish, a bunch of weird things. 17:11.000 --> 17:15.000 Maybe there's some backdoor access that you can get in with VT100. 17:15.000 --> 17:17.000 You're faced with a different login. 17:17.000 --> 17:19.000 Could be different things like that. 17:19.000 --> 17:24.000 But generally, they're looking for one type of login and you just have to figure it out or know what it is. 17:24.000 --> 17:28.000 Footprint where you're looking for and see if you can figure out what it is. 17:28.000 --> 17:33.000 Yeah, and the stuff that I've seen that has fancy terminal emulation usually spits back like some type of challenge. 17:33.000 --> 17:38.000 It gives you some strength and then your client has to respond with some strength back, otherwise it just hangs up on you. 17:38.000 --> 17:41.000 So it knows that you're using the right client software. 17:41.000 --> 17:42.000 Exactly. 17:42.000 --> 17:45.000 So that's the mailbag this week. 17:45.000 --> 17:47.000 That was actually very interesting. 17:47.000 --> 17:50.000 It took me back down memory lane there with the old coupler modem. 17:50.000 --> 17:52.000 That was good stuff. 17:52.000 --> 18:01.000 Gosh, we went from 3 to 12 and what just an incredible jump that was back then. 18:01.000 --> 18:05.000 And now I'm at 1.5 megabits per second. 18:05.000 --> 18:08.000 What an amazing, amazing leap. 18:08.000 --> 18:11.000 You know what's even more amazing is that 1.5 megabits is still slow. 18:11.000 --> 18:13.000 Yeah, well that's true. 18:13.000 --> 18:14.000 That's true. 18:14.000 --> 18:16.000 Some sites more than others too. 18:16.000 --> 18:19.000 And you know what, we'll save that for another time. 18:19.000 --> 18:25.000 A lot of people don't realize too that, well I guess they realize but they don't analytically think it out. 18:25.000 --> 18:32.000 A lot of times when you go someplace and you're thinking how slow it is, how slow it is, pop open a command window, go to a command line and do a traceroute on it. 18:32.000 --> 18:42.000 Because you may be getting a full on pipe to your ISP and that site may be full up on their ISP but somewhere in the middle you're getting dropped or you got congestion or something like that. 18:42.000 --> 18:47.000 So, just a little bonus for you, I don't know what that had to do with anything, it just popped into my head. 18:47.000 --> 18:48.000 Alright sir. 18:48.000 --> 18:57.000 You know, speaking of packets and passing the stuff along, I know you have been doing some research on packet 8. 18:57.000 --> 19:04.000 Which for the listeners who have been listening to RFA, I know we spoke about this a lot, we talk about this a lot. 19:04.000 --> 19:12.000 And that was Vonage, which is a voice over IP way of communicating and packet 8 is a similar setup. 19:12.000 --> 19:13.000 Right. 19:13.000 --> 19:22.000 And I know you went through it recently and you posted on the forums, but why don't you just tell us some general stuff about that and how you like it, some general how does it work. 19:22.000 --> 19:26.000 And we don't have to go into deep analysis, but basically what do you think of it so far? 19:26.000 --> 19:39.000 Well, like you said, it's pretty much like Vonage and for those who don't have Vonage, it's just a little bit cheaper and you plug this box into your network, you plug your phone in, you pick up the phone and you get a dial tone and you can just dial out wherever you want. 19:39.000 --> 19:46.000 And it's unlimited, sound quality is pretty good, although definitely not as good as a regular phone as we found out tonight. 19:46.000 --> 19:54.000 But I did a little bit of packets missing on the box and it turns out that packet 8 is not very concerned about security whatsoever. 19:54.000 --> 19:56.000 Hmm, no encryption? 19:56.000 --> 19:58.000 No, not even close. 19:58.000 --> 19:59.000 Not even close? 19:59.000 --> 20:05.000 The data is passed back, not even in a binary format, it's passed back and forth as text. 20:05.000 --> 20:15.000 If you guys want to do a little bit of homework, look up SIP and I think it's SDP, which is Session Initiation Protocol and Session Description Protocol. 20:15.000 --> 20:19.000 And they're both text based protocols for voice over IP applications. 20:19.000 --> 20:22.000 And you can get a lot of good information out of it. 20:22.000 --> 20:28.000 And if you're clever with the packet smiffer, you can probably find a way to do a lot of things they don't want you to do. 20:28.000 --> 20:32.000 So I guess I'll probably just leave it at that and you guys will probably see an article about it sometime soon. 20:32.000 --> 20:35.000 Hmm, hopefully that sounds very interesting to me. 20:35.000 --> 20:40.000 Now how do you differentiate the packets, since this is already on your local network, 20:40.000 --> 20:47.000 how do you differentiate the sound or the, I don't know what the proper terminology, normal network traffic from the voice over IP traffic? 20:47.000 --> 20:52.000 Oh, the voice over IP traffic, first of all, it's all UDP. 20:52.000 --> 20:55.000 It has a control channel on port 5060. 20:55.000 --> 21:00.000 And then you just watch port 5060 UDP traffic and you'll see these messages that say, 21:00.000 --> 21:05.000 OK, open an audio channel on port 8002 for your outgoing audio. 21:05.000 --> 21:10.000 Open another audio channel on port 16000 or whatever for your incoming audio and stuff like that. 21:10.000 --> 21:13.000 I had no idea it was on UDP. 21:13.000 --> 21:18.000 So did you have to punch open a couple of holes in your firewall to get that coming in and out? 21:18.000 --> 21:19.000 Now see, that's the amazing thing. 21:19.000 --> 21:21.000 That's what makes no sense to me. 21:21.000 --> 21:25.000 Everybody I know that has it, that has a firewall, it just magically works. 21:25.000 --> 21:29.000 I've read a couple of articles about it and everybody online who's done a review of it, 21:29.000 --> 21:32.000 they say, I have no idea how it works, but it does. 21:32.000 --> 21:35.000 It just gets out to the network on port 5060. 21:35.000 --> 21:40.000 And even on their web page, they, you know, toot their own horns and they say, you know, 21:40.000 --> 21:42.000 you don't have to poke a hole into anything. 21:42.000 --> 21:43.000 Wow. 21:43.000 --> 21:44.000 So it just works out of the box. 21:44.000 --> 21:45.000 I have no idea how. 21:45.000 --> 21:48.000 If anybody knows, email me, let me know, because I'm really curious. 21:48.000 --> 21:50.000 Yeah, that sounds very interesting. 21:50.000 --> 21:52.000 I'd be curious to hear that myself. 21:52.000 --> 21:55.000 It seems like, well, I mean, you know what? 21:55.000 --> 22:00.000 That's a good thing for, you know, reaching the masses and to get this out for people to use. 22:00.000 --> 22:03.000 From a business standpoint, it's great that it's that simple. 22:03.000 --> 22:07.000 But, yes, you know, someone who's concerned about security, you know, 22:07.000 --> 22:11.000 I want to know how and why is it opening that port on my firewall. 22:11.000 --> 22:18.000 Now, the way I look at it, we're telling everybody we're vulnerable on port 5060. 22:18.000 --> 22:23.000 Somebody wants to come through, that's now an open port if you know somebody's using Packet 8 or Vonage. 22:23.000 --> 22:26.000 I wonder if Vonage is a similar setup. 22:26.000 --> 22:29.000 Did you do any research on that when you're comparing the two? 22:29.000 --> 22:36.000 I did a little bit of research on it and it looks like the Vonage stuff may be a little more secure because the hardware is made by Cisco. 22:36.000 --> 22:40.000 And I trust Cisco, I guess, a little bit more than Packet 8 because Packet 8 makes their own hardware. 22:40.000 --> 22:43.000 They do. That's also interesting to know. 22:43.000 --> 22:45.000 Yeah, I don't know. 22:45.000 --> 22:48.000 But I think still, you know, they still use the same SIP protocols. 22:48.000 --> 22:50.000 There's still a lot of stuff you can sniff. 22:50.000 --> 22:57.000 And the box has a built-in web server in it that they don't tell you about that has not even an option to put a password into it. 22:57.000 --> 23:00.000 So if it's not behind a firewall, you're definitely screwed. 23:00.000 --> 23:05.000 So that's, I assume, some sort of configuration from internal that you can access internally? 23:05.000 --> 23:12.000 Yeah, there's a couple of options that they don't even tell you that you can, you know, that exist in the first place. 23:12.000 --> 23:15.000 So you can poke around with that and do some stuff, but you've got to be a little careful, 23:15.000 --> 23:19.000 otherwise your box will just magically stop working, as I found out. 23:19.000 --> 23:26.000 Have you had any opportunity or need to use their support? 23:26.000 --> 23:28.000 No, actually not yet. 23:28.000 --> 23:35.000 The thing has just worked so well, you know, so far I haven't bothered to call them for anything. 23:35.000 --> 23:38.000 I asked them one question through email about the caller ID bug, 23:38.000 --> 23:42.000 and it seems like everybody's found the same caller ID bug that I have, 23:42.000 --> 23:47.000 which is that the caller ID number, instead of just being, you know, NPA, NXX, 23:47.000 --> 23:50.000 and the last four digits, it actually has a one before it. 23:50.000 --> 23:54.000 So your caller ID box is going to get all of those digits except for the very last one. 23:54.000 --> 23:59.000 So you're missing the last digit on somebody's incoming caller ID, which is kind of a drag, 23:59.000 --> 24:02.000 but again, if you packet sniff it, you can just get it right out of the packet. 24:02.000 --> 24:07.000 But they're working on a fix, and other than that, I've had no problems with it. 24:07.000 --> 24:08.000 All right, so sounds good. 24:08.000 --> 24:12.000 We can't really judge their support yet since we haven't had the need to access it, 24:12.000 --> 24:15.000 but for the most part, you're happy with it. 24:15.000 --> 24:16.000 Yeah, it's very good. 24:16.000 --> 24:18.000 Do you regret, do you think maybe you should have gone with Vonage, 24:18.000 --> 24:19.000 or are you happy with Packet 8? 24:19.000 --> 24:23.000 You know, I've heard actually that some bad things about Vonage, 24:23.000 --> 24:25.000 some problems with Echo and stuff like this, 24:25.000 --> 24:30.000 and they're, I think, $15 or $16 a month more expensive for the same service, 24:30.000 --> 24:33.000 so I'm going to stick with Packet 8 and pack away at it. 24:33.000 --> 24:36.000 I think also, like I said, because their hardware is homebrew, 24:36.000 --> 24:42.000 that there's going to be a lot more hacking opportunities for it than the Cisco APA 186 that Vonage uses. 24:42.000 --> 24:47.000 So I wonder if the Packet 8 manufacturers, or for lack of a better term, 24:47.000 --> 24:51.000 I wonder if they produce hardware for any other devices besides their own. 24:51.000 --> 24:52.000 I don't know. 24:52.000 --> 24:53.000 That's a good question. 24:53.000 --> 24:54.000 They probably do. 24:54.000 --> 24:55.000 They're a fairly big company. 24:55.000 --> 24:59.000 So if you want to look and see if they do anything else, search for 8x8 Networks. 24:59.000 --> 25:01.000 That's a company that owns Packet 8. 25:01.000 --> 25:03.000 They're the manufacturers of the hardware. 25:03.000 --> 25:04.000 So who knows? 25:04.000 --> 25:05.000 They do. 25:05.000 --> 25:06.000 Good deal. 25:06.000 --> 25:07.000 Good deal. 25:07.000 --> 25:10.000 Yeah, I'm hoping that these do take off. 25:10.000 --> 25:14.000 Now, like you said, we did try it earlier and give it a little test run, 25:14.000 --> 25:17.000 and it wasn't quite, from my standpoint anyway, 25:17.000 --> 25:20.000 I think you were a little bit softer on the Packet 8 device. 25:20.000 --> 25:24.000 The voice did not come through quite as loud, and I think we voxed a little bit. 25:24.000 --> 25:27.000 I think we were voxing each other out on occasion. 25:27.000 --> 25:33.000 So, I mean, like with any other device, since it is voice over IP and packets switching, 25:33.000 --> 25:36.000 the potential for lost packets is there. 25:36.000 --> 25:37.000 Yeah. 25:37.000 --> 25:40.000 Yeah, the packets are pretty small, though. 25:40.000 --> 25:42.000 So even if you lose a couple packets here and there, 25:42.000 --> 25:47.000 the error concealment hardware that's in there does a pretty good job of covering it up. 25:47.000 --> 25:50.000 But yeah, it's definitely not the quality of a regular phone, 25:50.000 --> 25:55.000 but, you know, it's good enough, and it's $20 a month unlimited, so I can't complain. 25:55.000 --> 25:57.000 No, yeah, you can't beat that with a bat. 25:57.000 --> 26:00.000 I just hope they start doing the three-way calling, so. 26:00.000 --> 26:01.000 Yeah. 26:02.000 --> 26:06.000 You know, actually, that's not going to help me now that I think about it, 26:06.000 --> 26:09.000 because I almost said the F word. 26:09.000 --> 26:11.000 See, I'm getting so much better at catching myself. 26:11.000 --> 26:19.000 My freaking phone company, Bell South, will not let me have DSL without having basic phone service. 26:19.000 --> 26:23.000 So even if I wanted to get rid of my phone service and go over to this, 26:23.000 --> 26:26.000 unless they're going to offer DSL along with this, you know, as a feature, 26:26.000 --> 26:31.000 I would still have to pay the stupid phone company to keep my DSL and a basic phone line, 26:31.000 --> 26:34.000 and then buy the Vonage or Package 8 on top of it? 26:34.000 --> 26:36.000 Nah, see, that's too much for me. 26:36.000 --> 26:37.000 Yeah. 26:37.000 --> 26:42.000 Until they can, you know, make an all-in-one, which, unfortunately, is very unrealistic. 26:42.000 --> 26:45.000 But Verizon has the same problem in New York. 26:45.000 --> 26:49.000 You know, you can't get away from getting phone service if you have DSL. 26:49.000 --> 26:50.000 Yeah. 26:50.000 --> 26:54.000 The cheapest phone service you can get is probably still going to cost you like 15 or 20 bucks a month. 26:54.000 --> 26:55.000 Yeah. 26:55.000 --> 26:56.000 With no service. 26:56.000 --> 26:57.000 Absolutely. 26:57.000 --> 27:01.000 And I would switch to a cable modem if they offered it. 27:01.000 --> 27:05.000 And my crappy cable company, as I spoke of many times, doesn't offer cable modem. 27:05.000 --> 27:08.000 So I don't really have much of a choice. 27:08.000 --> 27:11.000 But I've got to say, my DSL works pretty fast. 27:11.000 --> 27:12.000 I'm happy with it. 27:12.000 --> 27:17.000 Just don't like the fact that I'm raped into the same, you know, I have no choice in the matter. 27:17.000 --> 27:22.000 Yeah, I would switch to a cable modem, too, for, you know, it's probably a little bit faster around here. 27:22.000 --> 27:27.000 But the only thing about my DSL provider is they give me 13 static IPs for free. 27:27.000 --> 27:29.000 So I can't really beat that. 27:29.000 --> 27:30.000 Wow. 27:30.000 --> 27:31.000 Very cool. 27:31.000 --> 27:34.000 Yeah, usually, I know from mine, they charge you for each one. 27:34.000 --> 27:35.000 Yeah. 27:35.000 --> 27:36.000 They'll charge you if you want one extra. 27:36.000 --> 27:41.000 And then if you want, I think they start doing them in groups of five after that, charging you for a group of five. 27:41.000 --> 27:44.000 So, yeah, that, in and of itself, that's a nice little bonus. 27:44.000 --> 27:52.000 But, see, the thing about the cable modem, and Dual and I have talked about this, they vary greatly from installation to installation. 27:52.000 --> 27:54.000 A friend of mine has cable modem, and it's horrible. 27:54.000 --> 27:58.000 He still has to hook into a phone line for uploads, which is only 28.8. 27:58.000 --> 28:00.000 I mean, that's just disgusting. 28:00.000 --> 28:02.000 It's download only, you know. 28:02.000 --> 28:05.000 So, you know, that's not going to work for me. 28:05.000 --> 28:06.000 That's not acceptable. 28:06.000 --> 28:08.000 So, I don't know. 28:08.000 --> 28:16.000 Now, I know, in between all this hacking and playing with Packet 8, you did take a little bit of a break, didn't you? 28:16.000 --> 28:17.000 Yeah, somewhat. 28:17.000 --> 28:20.000 You headed out west, west, west. 28:20.000 --> 28:23.000 I wanted to go myself, but you know how that goes. 28:23.000 --> 28:25.000 Real life kicks you in the nuts sometimes. 28:25.000 --> 28:26.000 Yep. 28:26.000 --> 28:29.000 But you did make it to DEF CON in Las Vegas, right? 28:29.000 --> 28:30.000 Yep. 28:30.000 --> 28:40.000 I went out to DEF CON, stayed there for four days, met up with Epiphany, Johnny Lightning, and some other kid who I can't remember, which I feel really bad about. 28:40.000 --> 28:42.000 But then I got to meet up with the other people. 28:42.000 --> 28:48.000 You know, I met Cheshire Catalyst, and got to hang out and watch Hacker Jeopardy up in the front row there. 28:48.000 --> 28:50.000 So, it was a pretty good time. 28:50.000 --> 28:51.000 Yes, sir. 28:51.000 --> 28:56.000 The only real problem I had with the show was that the talks filled up so quickly. 28:56.000 --> 29:03.000 And even if you were in a talk and you wanted to see the next talk, they would empty out the whole room before they, you know, would start up the next talk. 29:03.000 --> 29:06.000 So, you would miss the talk even if you were there, you know, hours beforehand. 29:06.000 --> 29:08.000 You couldn't just stay in your seat? 29:08.000 --> 29:09.000 No, you couldn't stay in the seat. 29:09.000 --> 29:12.000 They would not let the next talk start until they kicked everybody out. 29:12.000 --> 29:13.000 Oh, that's lame. 29:13.000 --> 29:14.000 Yeah, that was really terrible. 29:14.000 --> 29:15.000 That's very lame. 29:15.000 --> 29:19.000 You know, I went to H2K2 and didn't have that problem with any talk. 29:19.000 --> 29:22.000 Like, even if it was very full, you could always stand in the back. 29:22.000 --> 29:26.000 But, apparently, the fire marshal in Vegas doesn't like people packed in like that. 29:26.000 --> 29:28.000 So, there was nothing we could do. 29:28.000 --> 29:29.000 Hmm. 29:29.000 --> 29:32.000 But, hopefully, H2K4, or whatever they call it this year, is going to... 29:32.000 --> 29:34.000 If they have it, yeah. 29:34.000 --> 29:35.000 Well, no. 29:35.000 --> 29:37.000 According to Cheshire Catalyst, they're going to have it. 29:37.000 --> 29:40.000 It's not going to be called H2K4, but they're definitely going to have it. 29:40.000 --> 29:44.000 Oh, well, that's news to me, because I had never heard a confirmation on whether they were going to do it. 29:44.000 --> 29:45.000 So, that's very good news. 29:45.000 --> 29:47.000 Yeah, I asked him point blank, and he said they're going to do it. 29:47.000 --> 29:51.000 And, I think it's also the 20th anniversary of 2600 next year, isn't it? 29:51.000 --> 29:52.000 Hmm. 29:52.000 --> 29:53.000 Started 1984. 29:53.000 --> 29:54.000 1984. 29:54.000 --> 29:55.000 So, yes. 29:55.000 --> 29:56.000 I guess that sounds about right. 29:56.000 --> 29:58.000 So, maybe they'll be doing something special for it. 29:58.000 --> 30:00.000 I don't know what the exact month and all that kind of stuff is. 30:00.000 --> 30:01.000 But, yeah. 30:01.000 --> 30:02.000 1984. 30:02.000 --> 30:03.000 Hmm. 30:03.000 --> 30:07.000 Well, I'm definitely going to try to make it to that. 30:07.000 --> 30:08.000 Yeah, I'll be there. 30:08.000 --> 30:10.000 It's only, you know, 20 miles from here. 30:10.000 --> 30:11.000 20 miles from here, so. 30:11.000 --> 30:12.000 Oh, yeah. 30:12.000 --> 30:13.000 You're... 30:13.000 --> 30:14.000 We're going to... 30:14.000 --> 30:15.000 We'll all crash at your place. 30:15.000 --> 30:16.000 How's that? 30:16.000 --> 30:17.000 Oh, Jesus. 30:17.000 --> 30:18.000 No. 30:18.000 --> 30:19.000 Yeah. 30:19.000 --> 30:21.000 Actually, I've already talked to Epiphany. 30:21.000 --> 30:25.000 Epiphany and Johnny Lightning, for those of you who don't know, are in the... 30:25.000 --> 30:30.000 have the McDonald's Wireless article in 2600. 30:30.000 --> 30:34.000 A good friend of mine, Epiphany, and I've already talked to him about possibly hooking 30:34.000 --> 30:38.000 up showing me around New York because, as I've mentioned before, I've never been there. 30:38.000 --> 30:42.000 So, I definitely want to go up there and check it out and see all the things you see 30:42.000 --> 30:43.000 on television. 30:43.000 --> 30:48.000 To me, a person like me, and I guess this sounds kind of corny, but New York is like 30:48.000 --> 30:49.000 a... 30:49.000 --> 30:52.000 I don't know, not a Mecca, but it's like... 30:52.000 --> 30:55.000 You've got to go to New York once in your life, you know? 30:55.000 --> 30:56.000 Yeah, definitely. 30:56.000 --> 30:57.000 There's a lot of stuff to see here. 30:57.000 --> 30:59.000 I definitely am looking forward to that. 31:00.000 --> 31:01.000 And riding the subway. 31:02.000 --> 31:03.000 I wouldn't be looking forward to that. 31:03.000 --> 31:04.000 Yeah. 31:04.000 --> 31:09.000 As long as nobody pisses on me or rolls over me with a skateboard or, you know... 31:09.000 --> 31:12.000 I don't want to get into a fight my first night in New York and get kicked out of the 31:12.000 --> 31:14.000 whole fucking conference or something. 31:14.000 --> 31:16.000 They can piss on me and do all that type of stuff. 31:16.000 --> 31:18.000 As long as they don't push me on the tracks, I'm fine. 31:18.000 --> 31:24.000 Yeah, I don't want to get caught in any gang fights or bum fights or anything like that. 31:24.000 --> 31:26.000 Yeah, stay out of the South Bronx, you'll probably be okay. 31:26.000 --> 31:28.000 Alright, good deal. 31:28.000 --> 31:31.000 I'll go to Central Park, but I'll make sure I go in the daytime. 31:31.000 --> 31:33.000 Yeah, that might be a good call too. 31:33.000 --> 31:36.000 So, DEFCON, thumbs up, thumbs down. 31:37.000 --> 31:39.000 Or do you not remember because you were drunk in the pool? 31:39.000 --> 31:41.000 Uh, see, that's the thing. 31:41.000 --> 31:44.000 Epiphany brought that up and we talked about it and apparently the guy drunk in the pool 31:44.000 --> 31:45.000 was somebody else. 31:45.000 --> 31:46.000 Oh. 31:46.000 --> 31:49.000 No, I was drunk the night before, very much so during Hacker Jeopardy. 31:49.000 --> 31:50.000 But... 31:50.000 --> 31:51.000 Isn't that pretty much part of DEFCON? 31:51.000 --> 31:52.000 I mean, DEFCON has a reputation... 31:52.000 --> 31:54.000 Let's clear this up on the air now. 31:54.000 --> 32:02.000 DEFCON has the reputation of being less of a hacker learning and conferences and presentations 32:02.000 --> 32:04.000 and more of a big party. 32:04.000 --> 32:05.000 Um... 32:05.000 --> 32:06.000 Is that true? 32:06.000 --> 32:07.000 Yeah, definitely. 32:07.000 --> 32:09.000 Definitely at night it turns into a big party. 32:09.000 --> 32:10.000 I mean... 32:10.000 --> 32:14.000 And not that there's anything wrong with that, but let's just, you know, compare it to H2K2 32:14.000 --> 32:16.000 or the HOPE conferences or whatever. 32:16.000 --> 32:19.000 Um, I would imagine that... 32:19.000 --> 32:23.000 First of all, I would imagine it's an older crowd in general at DEFCON. 32:23.000 --> 32:25.000 Is that correct assumption? 32:25.000 --> 32:26.000 It's kind of a mixed bag. 32:26.000 --> 32:30.000 There's a lot of people there who are much older and there's a lot of people who are really, 32:30.000 --> 32:31.000 really young. 32:31.000 --> 32:33.000 I mean, like 13 years old. 32:33.000 --> 32:34.000 Wow. 32:34.000 --> 32:35.000 I'm a young, but I'm an old guy. 32:35.000 --> 32:36.000 So... 32:36.000 --> 32:37.000 Join the club. 32:37.000 --> 32:38.000 Yep. 32:38.000 --> 32:42.000 But yeah, at H2K2, I didn't see any girls jumping out of the hot tub topless. 32:42.000 --> 32:43.000 Oh, man! 32:43.000 --> 32:44.000 Well, screw that. 32:44.000 --> 32:45.000 I'm not going. 32:45.000 --> 32:47.000 Yeah, well, at DEFCON, you definitely see some of that. 32:47.000 --> 32:49.000 So you might, uh, you might want to hook up, uh... 32:49.000 --> 32:50.000 Ooh! 32:50.000 --> 32:51.000 Some of them. 32:51.000 --> 32:54.000 Gotta go get me some of those Las Vegas strippers. 32:54.000 --> 32:55.000 Mm-hmm. 32:55.000 --> 32:57.000 Jump in the hot tub. 32:57.000 --> 32:58.000 Do a Girls Gone... 32:58.000 --> 32:59.000 Do a Hacker Girls Gone Wild video. 32:59.000 --> 33:01.000 Oh, they actually had a video. 33:01.000 --> 33:02.000 Funny you mention that. 33:02.000 --> 33:05.000 I think it's called Haxor, but it has three X's in it. 33:05.000 --> 33:06.000 And it's about... 33:06.000 --> 33:09.000 It's some ridiculous $40 DVD that, uh... 33:09.000 --> 33:14.000 Basically, it's got girls doing, like, packet sniffing and mapping and all this other kind 33:14.000 --> 33:15.000 of stuff, naked. 33:15.000 --> 33:16.000 What? 33:16.000 --> 33:17.000 Are you kidding me? 33:17.000 --> 33:18.000 Where to God? 33:18.000 --> 33:19.000 I saw it there. 33:19.000 --> 33:21.000 They had the girls there autographing the thing. 33:21.000 --> 33:23.000 And they were selling them for $40 bucks? 33:23.000 --> 33:24.000 $40 DVD. 33:24.000 --> 33:25.000 Son of Beach! 33:25.000 --> 33:27.000 Don't worry, it'll be on Kazaa soon. 33:27.000 --> 33:28.000 Son of Beach! 33:28.000 --> 33:29.000 Somebody hooked that up, man! 33:29.000 --> 33:30.000 I am not... 33:30.000 --> 33:31.000 40 bucks?! 33:31.000 --> 33:32.000 Yeah. 33:32.000 --> 33:33.000 Good Lord! 33:33.000 --> 33:35.000 But I'm sure somebody's already, uh... 33:35.000 --> 33:37.000 Somebody's already ripped it and put it up somewhere, so... 33:37.000 --> 33:38.000 Yeah, I have to keep my eyes. 33:38.000 --> 33:40.000 H-A-X-X-X-O-R, right? 33:40.000 --> 33:42.000 I think that's what it's called. 33:42.000 --> 33:44.000 I only get to see it really quickly, but... 33:44.000 --> 33:47.000 Hmm, I might have to get a preview of that, because we don't condone piracy or anything, 33:47.000 --> 33:49.000 but I would like to borrow that from someone. 33:49.000 --> 33:52.000 I actually know somebody who has it, so he's gonna let me borrow it. 33:52.000 --> 33:54.000 We'll pull a, uh... 33:54.000 --> 33:55.000 What is that thing? 33:55.000 --> 33:56.000 Netflix? 33:56.000 --> 33:57.000 We'll pull a Netflix. 33:57.000 --> 33:58.000 You can mail it to me. 33:58.000 --> 33:59.000 I'll check it out. 33:59.000 --> 34:00.000 See what I think of it. 34:00.000 --> 34:01.000 If I like it, I'll order it. 34:01.000 --> 34:02.000 Yeah, right. 34:02.000 --> 34:03.000 40 bucks? 34:03.000 --> 34:04.000 Right. 34:04.000 --> 34:05.000 I can get a lot of porn for 40 bucks. 34:05.000 --> 34:06.000 Yeah, exactly. 34:06.000 --> 34:13.000 Now, somehow we always end up on porn on this show. 34:13.000 --> 34:14.000 God, we are so low, bro. 34:14.000 --> 34:15.000 It's porn, man. 34:15.000 --> 34:16.000 It always pleases the listeners. 34:16.000 --> 34:20.000 Oh, and I have to say something about shit and a horse on every episode. 34:20.000 --> 34:23.000 Otherwise, I can't get through the episode. 34:23.000 --> 34:25.000 Um, we have... 34:25.000 --> 34:26.000 You know what? 34:26.000 --> 34:27.000 Let's jump... 34:27.000 --> 34:31.000 I'm gonna jump to the McDonald's Wireless, since we did talk about Epiphany and Johnny Lightning's 34:31.000 --> 34:32.000 article. 34:32.000 --> 34:38.000 Um, I saw that they're opening some new locations for McDonald's Wireless. 34:38.000 --> 34:43.000 Um, it was originally just in like five or six New York locations, but now it says they're 34:43.000 --> 34:48.000 opening in Chicago, San Francisco, and Canada. 34:48.000 --> 34:49.000 Canada, eh? 34:49.000 --> 34:50.000 Hey. 34:50.000 --> 34:53.000 So, um, I was poking around their site. 34:53.000 --> 34:57.000 I was just, you know, kinda keeping myself up to date, see if they're ever gonna come anywhere 34:57.000 --> 35:03.000 near me, and being the nosy ass I am, I started digging through their site, and they're wide 35:03.000 --> 35:06.000 open to directory transversal in some circumstances. 35:06.000 --> 35:10.000 Um, and others, they default to whatever the previous page you were looking at, which is 35:10.000 --> 35:16.000 interesting, but basically, um, dug through some of their files, and nothing fancy, but 35:16.000 --> 35:21.000 their cascading style sheets, their CSS, um, the Shockwave files, the Shockwave animations 35:21.000 --> 35:23.000 that they used on a lot of those things. 35:23.000 --> 35:27.000 I could just see the files and download them individually if I wanted to. 35:27.000 --> 35:31.000 Nothing fancy, not a whole lot of damage I can do, but I did think how funny it would 35:31.000 --> 35:38.000 be that these SWF, the Shockwave, um, animations, how funny it would be if I put on like the goat 35:38.000 --> 35:45.000 sex picture or some disgusting thing and uploaded it back up to McDonaldsWireless.com so that 35:45.000 --> 35:47.000 everybody could, uh, enjoy that. 35:47.000 --> 35:48.000 Oh, yeah. 35:48.000 --> 35:51.000 But I didn't try anything, and I, hopefully they've got security to stop that. 35:51.000 --> 35:52.000 I didn't, I didn't try. 35:52.000 --> 35:53.000 I didn't test it to see. 35:53.000 --> 35:54.000 I assumed they would. 35:54.000 --> 35:56.000 I was just browsing, like I said. 35:56.000 --> 35:59.000 But I thought that might be kind of funny if we were to upload or, or just give them 35:59.000 --> 36:04.000 this god-awful color scheme like purple and yellow and orange and green polka dots and 36:04.000 --> 36:09.000 just a real fucked up, look like, it'll look like Ronald McDonald had sex with Marilyn 36:09.000 --> 36:10.000 Manson. 36:10.000 --> 36:15.000 It'd be this just fucked up color scheme and, uh, we could do all kinds of sexual positions 36:15.000 --> 36:18.000 with Grimace and Mayor McCheese and could have been, could have been good stuff. 36:18.000 --> 36:20.000 Jesus, you've thought a lot about that. 36:20.000 --> 36:21.000 Yeah. 36:21.000 --> 36:22.000 Actually, I just made it up on the spur of the moment. 36:22.000 --> 36:24.000 I'm, I'm pretty good at directing porn movies. 36:24.000 --> 36:26.000 I just, you know, I just want to throw that out there for everyone. 36:26.000 --> 36:28.000 And there's porn coming soon. 36:28.000 --> 36:30.000 Yeah, I missed, I missed my calling in life. 36:30.000 --> 36:36.000 Um, and speaking of, well, no, okay, we won't go there. 36:36.000 --> 36:43.000 Um, another thing that I did this week was, well, first of all, yeah, I guess this is kind 36:43.000 --> 36:46.000 of speaking of porn since the majority of spam is porn. 36:46.000 --> 36:49.000 Well, I don't know about the majority, but a lot of it. 36:49.000 --> 36:54.000 Um, we've been kind of watching lately and commenting on how the spam has been going and 36:54.000 --> 36:57.000 how the filtering has been going is getting better, getting worse. 36:57.000 --> 37:01.000 Um, I noticed a new trick that's been going on lately in Hotmail. 37:01.000 --> 37:12.000 Um, the filters, I guess, are very reliant or dependent on English words, English dictionary, 37:12.000 --> 37:14.000 actual strings that it can look for. 37:14.000 --> 37:19.000 So, I'm noticing what a lot of these spammers are doing, and this is not necessarily new. 37:19.000 --> 37:26.000 Um, they used to put in, like, um, I'll make up an example on top of my head, um, Viagra. 37:26.000 --> 37:28.000 That's one I see a lot. 37:28.000 --> 37:29.000 Viagra ads. 37:29.000 --> 37:34.000 If you seize the word Viagra in your email, it knows that it's more than likely spam and 37:34.000 --> 37:35.000 it will filter it out. 37:35.000 --> 37:41.000 So, a long time ago, what they started doing was putting in V dot A dot A, you know, and 37:41.000 --> 37:43.000 they put a period in between. 37:43.000 --> 37:47.000 People reading it will still see the word, of course. 37:47.000 --> 37:48.000 You know, we can see the letters. 37:48.000 --> 37:49.000 We don't care if there's a period there. 37:49.000 --> 37:50.000 We're not a machine. 37:50.000 --> 37:51.000 We can, we can adapt. 37:51.000 --> 37:53.000 We can see what it's showing us. 37:53.000 --> 37:59.000 A machine, earlier, early the filters would probably get fooled by that. 37:59.000 --> 38:04.000 So, they become more sophisticated, obviously, and the spammers are starting to, um, change 38:04.000 --> 38:05.000 it even more so. 38:05.000 --> 38:06.000 So, it's not just periods. 38:06.000 --> 38:08.000 They're using a lot of special characters. 38:08.000 --> 38:12.000 They're using a lot of, I've, I've seen a lot of elite speak, to be honest with you. 38:12.000 --> 38:18.000 I've seen a lot of elite speak on, uh, in the, in the strings trying to, and not only 38:18.000 --> 38:21.000 trying, some of it does get through, so it must be working. 38:21.000 --> 38:29.000 Um, but it reminds me of, if you've ever been to, um, some forums or, I don't know, 38:29.000 --> 38:30.000 I can't think of a site. 38:30.000 --> 38:36.000 Oh, like if you go to look up somebody's, um, registration information, um, a lot of 38:36.000 --> 38:40.000 spammers will go to those sites and try to harvest email addresses of people who have 38:40.000 --> 38:42.000 registered websites and stuff like that. 38:42.000 --> 38:48.000 Well, to prevent that, they put up a little randomly created JPEG or GIF or whatever of 38:48.000 --> 38:53.000 a string of numbers or letters, and it makes you type them in to confirm that you are a 38:53.000 --> 38:58.000 human being reading what you see on the screen and interpreting it. 38:58.000 --> 39:03.000 It will twist the numbers up, it'll do them in different colors, so that a spam bot will 39:03.000 --> 39:08.000 not be able to interpret what it sees on there because the differentiation is too much for 39:08.000 --> 39:09.000 it to handle. 39:09.000 --> 39:13.000 But the human eye can read it and decipher what it really says. 39:13.000 --> 39:16.000 So that's kind of what's going on with these emails. 39:16.000 --> 39:24.000 I get something that says V, comma, I, hyphen, uh, tilde, A, you know, they throw in a bunch 39:24.000 --> 39:27.000 of random characters in there so that it throws off the filtering. 39:27.000 --> 39:32.000 Because, and if anybody wants to read, uh, God, how long ago was it that I wrote the 39:32.000 --> 39:34.000 EliteSpeak article? 39:34.000 --> 39:38.000 At the very beginning of that, I mentioned that that's one of the reasons EliteSpeak 39:38.000 --> 39:44.000 came about, was to get around filters that were trying to keep out hacking topics. 39:44.000 --> 39:49.000 So, we realized that it was an adaptive language. 39:49.000 --> 39:54.000 As long as you keep changing it, you can keep fooling those filters almost indefinitely. 39:54.000 --> 39:57.000 And that's what's going on here with these spammers. 39:57.000 --> 40:02.000 All they've got to do is keep twisting it up because every time you add one of these things 40:02.000 --> 40:05.000 to your filter dictionary, for lack of a better term, and they're not that simple that they're 40:05.000 --> 40:07.000 just a dictionary, don't get me wrong. 40:07.000 --> 40:14.000 But the more you try to stop it, the more they can adapt and make these polymorphic spam messages 40:14.000 --> 40:19.000 and spam headers, I guess I should say, subject lines that will get by. 40:19.000 --> 40:26.000 So, I've noticed in the past two weeks, I would say, a huge rise in stuff like that. 40:26.000 --> 40:30.000 Do you have a problem with spam with your main email address? 40:30.000 --> 40:33.000 You know, I've been, a lot of people have asked me this because they always complain about spam 40:33.000 --> 40:37.000 and I hate saying this because I know one of these days it's going to jinx me. 40:37.000 --> 40:44.000 But I had an email account a while back that I would get about 300 to 350 spams a day. 40:44.000 --> 40:46.000 It was ridiculous. 40:46.000 --> 40:50.000 So, I changed my email address and I actually did sign up a couple places with it. 40:50.000 --> 40:55.000 And now I get about one spam probably every three or four days. 40:55.000 --> 40:56.000 That's it. 40:56.000 --> 40:57.000 Man. 40:57.000 --> 41:02.000 You know, on my work account, I get probably a hundred a day. 41:02.000 --> 41:03.000 Yeah. 41:03.000 --> 41:04.000 A hundred. 41:04.000 --> 41:10.000 Now, majority of those, I have a plug-in that will filter most of that out. 41:10.000 --> 41:12.000 Not all of it, but most of it. 41:12.000 --> 41:13.000 So, that helps. 41:13.000 --> 41:17.000 But, yeah, I get just a phenomenal amount. 41:17.000 --> 41:19.000 And, obviously, on my Hotmail account. 41:19.000 --> 41:30.000 I mean, today on my Hotmail account, I probably got, oh, I would estimate 15 to 20 each day on my Hotmail account. 41:30.000 --> 41:34.000 And out of that 15 or 20, 10 are probably, whoops, what was that? 41:34.000 --> 41:36.000 10 were probably filtered out. 41:36.000 --> 41:39.000 So, you know, they're still coming. 41:39.000 --> 41:41.000 They're still not getting all filtered. 41:41.000 --> 41:49.000 But, you know, we went into this ad infinitum on a previous episode, so we won't harp on that too much. 41:49.000 --> 42:00.000 Let's talk about a project that you've been working on for a while that I finally got around to testing here in the last few weeks. 42:00.000 --> 42:03.000 And this is something we've been working on for quite a while. 42:03.000 --> 42:05.000 We started it a long time ago. 42:05.000 --> 42:07.000 We're just now bringing it up on the air. 42:07.000 --> 42:12.000 And that is the Freak Toys, which is something that, basically, you wrote. 42:12.000 --> 42:15.000 We talked about it, and we worked out some ideas for it. 42:15.000 --> 42:16.000 But, basically, this was your baby. 42:16.000 --> 42:17.000 You wrote this. 42:17.000 --> 42:22.000 And why don't you tell, briefly, again, we can't go into too much detail on it, 42:22.000 --> 42:28.000 but why don't you just explain what it is and what technology it's based on, et cetera? 42:28.000 --> 42:29.000 Sure. 42:29.000 --> 42:32.000 Yeah, I got the idea one day that I wanted to start writing for my phone. 42:32.000 --> 42:36.000 I realized it had J2ME, so I figured I'd give it a shot. 42:36.000 --> 42:39.000 And I was really interested in starting a pay phone database. 42:39.000 --> 42:42.000 And I was always, you know, I'd always get pay phone numbers. 42:42.000 --> 42:44.000 I'd always write them down, and I'd always lose them. 42:44.000 --> 42:49.000 So I decided to first write an application where I could just enter a pay phone number, submit it, 42:49.000 --> 42:53.000 have it go to my computer at home, and sit in a MySQL database. 42:53.000 --> 42:58.000 But, of course, like any project, it exploded, and I was like, oh, I need to add this, I need to add that. 42:58.000 --> 43:01.000 And it just got out of hand, and now it does reverse phone lookups. 43:01.000 --> 43:02.000 It does... 43:02.000 --> 43:04.000 That's my personal favorite. 43:04.000 --> 43:12.000 Yeah, it does NPA lookups, NPA NXX lookups, and it'll actually, there's a new feature just added in the last version of it 43:12.000 --> 43:21.000 that will tell you what the meaning of an ANII, which is the identification information or something like that, 43:21.000 --> 43:25.000 the two digits in front of your number when you call an ANI number. 43:25.000 --> 43:28.000 Usually it'll say, you know, 00, and then your phone number. 43:28.000 --> 43:34.000 Those two numbers, you enter them into this program, and it'll tell you 00 means that you have a POTS line, 43:34.000 --> 43:39.000 or 70 means it's a pay phone line, or 27 means it's a smart phone or something like that. 43:39.000 --> 43:47.000 So, basically, it's a bunch of information that I got from telecodata.us and a bunch of other sites. 43:47.000 --> 43:54.000 Put them all together, put them on the phone, added in a little bit of network access so it can hit my machine at home for data that wouldn't fit on the phone, 43:54.000 --> 44:00.000 like the NPA NXX lookups, and now I got a nice little toy to walk around and do some freaking with. 44:00.000 --> 44:03.000 Yeah, very, very cool. I've been using it quite a bit. 44:03.000 --> 44:07.000 And yeah, like you said, one of the first problems I had was the size of it. 44:07.000 --> 44:13.000 You know, getting it on the phone, I had to delete a lot of stuff to get it to fit on my Motorola T720i. 44:13.000 --> 44:22.000 Now, this can be used by anybody whose phone supports J2ME. Is that a true statement? 44:22.000 --> 44:30.000 Right, yeah. J2ME, I used the first standard, CLDC 1.0 and MIDP 1.0, which are the very baseline J2ME standards. 44:30.000 --> 44:36.000 So, this will actually, even if you have a BlackBerry or you have some other type of cell phone that I've never even seen before, 44:36.000 --> 44:39.000 color display black and white, it should all work, no problem. 44:39.000 --> 44:47.000 Cool, very cool. Now, this is still a work in progress. It's working. It is absolutely working, no doubt about that. 44:47.000 --> 44:52.000 I've seen that myself. But we do, we're still trying to add a couple more features. 44:52.000 --> 44:59.000 Are we still going to try to go forward with some of those, or do we want to call this a beta or an alpha, or...? 44:59.000 --> 45:03.000 I'll definitely, I'll call this a beta for now, because it's got enough functionality to be usable. 45:03.000 --> 45:04.000 I agree. 45:04.000 --> 45:07.000 A couple extra features that I want to add, but... 45:07.000 --> 45:09.000 Well, we'll save those for a surprise for later upgrades. 45:09.000 --> 45:13.000 But what we'll do is we'll put this on the show notes, Hack and Slash will put this on, 45:13.000 --> 45:16.000 and we'll put a link to it for people who want to download it and check it out. 45:16.000 --> 45:18.000 That's good. 45:18.000 --> 45:19.000 And... 45:19.000 --> 45:22.000 What, now... 45:22.000 --> 45:27.000 First of all, I don't know, I don't mean to put you on the spot here, but did you go out, you mentioned payphones. 45:27.000 --> 45:32.000 I actually got a couple more numbers for Project Walmart Freedom than I need to send to Duel. 45:32.000 --> 45:33.000 Did you get... 45:33.000 --> 45:37.000 Were you able to get any payphone numbers for Project Walmart Freedom, or...? 45:37.000 --> 45:39.000 No, I don't even know where there is a Walmart around me. 45:39.000 --> 45:40.000 Oh, you've got to be kidding me. 45:40.000 --> 45:42.000 There's Walmarts everywhere. 45:42.000 --> 45:46.000 No, we have Super K or one of these other stupid things, but no Walmart. 45:46.000 --> 45:47.000 No Walmart. 45:47.000 --> 45:48.000 Oh, man. 45:48.000 --> 45:49.000 Super K sucks. 45:49.000 --> 45:50.000 Yeah, tell me about it. 45:50.000 --> 45:51.000 Super K is the suck. 45:51.000 --> 45:52.000 Yeah, seriously. 45:52.000 --> 45:53.000 First. 45:53.000 --> 45:56.000 Yeah, they... 45:56.000 --> 45:57.000 Most of those... 45:57.000 --> 46:00.000 Man, Kmart was in bad trouble, man. 46:00.000 --> 46:03.000 Kmart closed so many stores and just... 46:03.000 --> 46:04.000 Oh, man. 46:04.000 --> 46:05.000 That's... 46:05.000 --> 46:06.000 Boy, that's very strange. 46:06.000 --> 46:08.000 I really have never heard of anybody who didn't have a Walmart somewhere. 46:08.000 --> 46:13.000 I mean, I'm sure there's one fairly nearby, but there's none convenient to you is what you're saying. 46:13.000 --> 46:18.000 There's none that I would drive by and notice, but who knows, maybe this Super K turned into a Walmart or something. 46:18.000 --> 46:19.000 Ah, who knows. 46:19.000 --> 46:21.000 But, hey, you're not missing out on anything, trust me. 46:21.000 --> 46:22.000 I'm not too worried about it. 46:22.000 --> 46:28.000 But, yeah, Project Walmart Freedom, I know, is ongoing projects. 46:28.000 --> 46:33.000 So, even though I've already sent in some submissions in the past, and I know he's already gathered this all together, 46:33.000 --> 46:38.000 and I think it's in the process of being published somewhere, I'm still, every time I get the chance, 46:38.000 --> 46:43.000 I'm going to write a couple of these numbers down, got this application in the phone that will help me do that, 46:43.000 --> 46:48.000 or, you know, scribbling down on a piece of paper, whatever you have to do, that is still ongoing. 46:48.000 --> 46:51.000 And, you know, I did something... 46:51.000 --> 46:54.000 I was doing some research this week also on another topic. 46:54.000 --> 47:01.000 You know, this has turned out to be a really good show because we haven't even gone too much into news items or stuff. 47:01.000 --> 47:04.000 There's been so much going on this week to talk about. 47:04.000 --> 47:11.000 I actually was doing some research on the Interzone Conference, Interzone Convention, 47:11.000 --> 47:18.000 and I mentioned on RFA, I think it was 59, I have in my notes here, 47:18.000 --> 47:26.000 I think it was episode 59 that I originally discussed the problem that a couple of people had at Interzone. 47:26.000 --> 47:35.000 These two hackers, these two young men, were going to give a presentation on Blackboard, 47:35.000 --> 47:43.000 which was, which is, I should say, a software package, which is a system that a lot of universities use. 47:43.000 --> 47:51.000 Their particular installation was using it as like a centralized, I won't say credit card, 47:51.000 --> 47:57.000 magnetic card, like a local ID where you could put credit, debit cards on it, 47:57.000 --> 48:01.000 you could put using inventing machines and washing machines and things like that. 48:01.000 --> 48:04.000 And they found that it was very, very, very insecure. 48:04.000 --> 48:10.000 So they were going to give a presentation on this at Interzone, the last Interzone Conference, 48:10.000 --> 48:14.000 and they were stopped, they were given court order and given a cease and desist, 48:14.000 --> 48:20.000 they were not able to present this topic on a court order of something that wasn't proved, 48:20.000 --> 48:24.000 just, you know, out of the blue, just, hey, you're not allowed to talk about that, 48:24.000 --> 48:26.000 which I didn't think was cool. 48:26.000 --> 48:29.000 And if you want to go back and listen to that, it's RFA 59. 48:29.000 --> 48:32.000 Well, I was doing a little bit more research to see what had happened since then, 48:32.000 --> 48:35.000 see if anything had come out of it. 48:35.000 --> 48:42.000 Long story short, they have settled this, settled that case somewhat, kind of, sort of, 48:42.000 --> 48:44.000 to get themselves out of trouble. 48:44.000 --> 48:50.000 They've settled and basically agreed not to talk about Blackboard, period. 48:50.000 --> 48:52.000 That's the agreement. 48:52.000 --> 48:54.000 The texts have been taken down. 48:54.000 --> 48:56.000 Obviously, you can still find them. 48:56.000 --> 48:59.000 You know, they're out there if you want to look hard enough to find them. 48:59.000 --> 49:02.000 And maybe I will post those up as well. 49:02.000 --> 49:05.000 There's nothing stopping me from doing it. 49:05.000 --> 49:09.000 I don't have anything against me to stop me from putting up public information. 49:09.000 --> 49:18.000 So, while I was doing research on this, I went to their site and I, interestingly enough, 49:18.000 --> 49:24.000 they posted the emails and the responses from the people at Blackboard 49:24.000 --> 49:26.000 and from the lawyers and stuff like that. 49:26.000 --> 49:29.000 And it's kind of interesting to read how they treat people 49:29.000 --> 49:34.000 and how they talk about the situation and how they word things. 49:34.000 --> 49:41.000 And they actually sent an email attachment that was a Microsoft Word document 49:41.000 --> 49:44.000 explaining the settlement details. 49:44.000 --> 49:50.000 So, I downloaded this from their site and I assume it's still up. 49:50.000 --> 49:53.000 I haven't been there in about a week now. 49:53.000 --> 49:57.000 The Microsoft Word document. 49:57.000 --> 50:02.000 See, Microsoft Word and Microsoft products in general are so over-engineered 50:02.000 --> 50:05.000 that it's scary, it's pathetic. 50:05.000 --> 50:08.000 They put all these features and all these extra bonuses and stuff in there 50:08.000 --> 50:10.000 and they're enabled by default. 50:10.000 --> 50:14.000 That's really where a lot of their security issues come from, but I digress. 50:14.000 --> 50:20.000 One of these things that Microsoft Word has is the ability to put, for lack of a better term, 50:20.000 --> 50:23.000 post-it notes into your document. 50:23.000 --> 50:27.000 So, this document, I looked and sure enough, there was a little comment. 50:27.000 --> 50:29.000 It's an editing tool. 50:29.000 --> 50:33.000 If you write a document with a bunch of different people, 50:33.000 --> 50:38.000 you can start off with the base introduction version 50:38.000 --> 50:41.000 and you pass it around and everybody can put a little post-it saying, 50:41.000 --> 50:44.000 I think you should add this line here, I think you should change that line there. 50:44.000 --> 50:52.000 Well, there was an interesting comment in this document from the person at Blackboard. 50:52.000 --> 50:54.000 I don't know if I... 50:54.000 --> 50:56.000 Would I be crossing a line to mention the name? 50:56.000 --> 51:01.000 I mean, I guess this is public out there and the name is on the document. 51:01.000 --> 51:03.000 It's public, I say go for it. 51:03.000 --> 51:04.000 Go for it? 51:04.000 --> 51:08.000 Yeah, I mean, the name is known anyway. 51:08.000 --> 51:10.000 If you just do a little research, you'll see where it comes from. 51:10.000 --> 51:15.000 But basically, the document has a little comment in there. 51:15.000 --> 51:19.000 The author listed on the comment is M. Stanton. 51:19.000 --> 51:27.000 M-S-T-A-N-T-O-N, who is basically the person that's pushing this against them from Blackboard. 51:27.000 --> 51:33.000 And the note says, quote, and it's pointing to the first line of the text. 51:33.000 --> 51:38.000 And basically, this is the settlement text saying, this is what we want you to do, this is what you have to do. 51:38.000 --> 51:42.000 And there's an incriminating comment in there that says, quote, 51:42.000 --> 51:44.000 This gets us nowhere. 51:44.000 --> 51:49.000 We are airing our dirty laundry and this supports the notion that we've picked on two kids. 51:49.000 --> 51:51.000 We claim a bunch of things and they deny them. 51:51.000 --> 51:55.000 Now, this is a comment he has embedded in there. 51:55.000 --> 51:59.000 They know damn good and well what they're doing. 51:59.000 --> 52:02.000 They know that they're not completely in the right on this situation. 52:02.000 --> 52:10.000 Putting a comment like there and then making the mistake of leaving it there for someone like me is definitely not cool. 52:10.000 --> 52:11.000 Whoops. 52:11.000 --> 52:12.000 Yeah. 52:12.000 --> 52:13.000 Uh-oh. 52:13.000 --> 52:14.000 Uh-oh. 52:14.000 --> 52:15.000 I wonder if they're going to call now. 52:15.000 --> 52:16.000 I hope I don't. 52:16.000 --> 52:17.000 Maybe I shouldn't have put this on the air. 52:17.000 --> 52:24.000 I hope they don't contact Rocket at Inner Zone and raise hell for me bringing this up on the air. 52:24.000 --> 52:25.000 But, hey, they sent it. 52:25.000 --> 52:30.000 This is part of their settlement and if they're too dumb to take it out, then, you know, that's all on them. 52:30.000 --> 52:36.000 As a matter of fact, I don't know when the last time I did this, but I'm going to give him the fuck nut of the month award for making this stupid mistake. 52:36.000 --> 52:38.000 M. Stanton, congratulations, my friend. 52:38.000 --> 52:40.000 You're the fuck nut of the month. 52:40.000 --> 52:41.000 Excellent. 52:41.000 --> 52:46.000 So, I also, once I found that, I said it really nosing around. 52:46.000 --> 52:55.000 Windows XP works very closely with Microsoft Office, of course, integration, the word. 52:55.000 --> 53:00.000 There are a lot more properties on files now that you can look at. 53:00.000 --> 53:03.000 It's not just archive, hidden, read-only, et cetera. 53:03.000 --> 53:09.000 There's a lot more options and properties that you can have on a file. 53:09.000 --> 53:17.000 I also reported to Rocket, which is, he's the coordinator of Inner Zone Convention. 53:17.000 --> 53:31.000 I reported to him some information that was in there, just for the sake, and it's nothing, you know, as bad as the comment that was in there, but just the information of who the author of the document was, what time and date it was created and edited and stuff like that. 53:31.000 --> 53:33.000 And it's labeled Exhibit D. 53:33.000 --> 53:34.000 That's the title. 53:34.000 --> 53:37.000 I thought that was kind of funny, like some kind of court, you know. 53:37.000 --> 53:39.000 Exhibit D. is what that settlement paper is called. 53:39.000 --> 53:50.000 Anyway, I reported this to him, and he mentioned, he did reply back to me, said thanks, and I mentioned to him I was going to bring it up on the air, so I'm sure he knows that we're talking about it. 53:50.000 --> 53:57.000 But I guess the moral of the story here is don't send out information. 53:57.000 --> 53:58.000 You know what? 53:58.000 --> 53:59.000 Send out ASCII text. 53:59.000 --> 54:01.000 It doesn't get any simpler than that. 54:01.000 --> 54:03.000 Don't send out all this extra stuff. 54:03.000 --> 54:07.000 And for God's sake, don't make comments like that. 54:07.000 --> 54:10.000 I mean, I guess we want to get more global. 54:10.000 --> 54:12.000 Don't do stupid shit like this in the first place. 54:12.000 --> 54:14.000 Let the guys talk. 54:14.000 --> 54:17.000 Secure your software and don't make a, you know, fix it yourself. 54:17.000 --> 54:19.000 Don't blame somebody else and try to cover it. 54:19.000 --> 54:26.000 Yeah, maybe these kids will even end up countersuing these guys and say, you know, they knew that this was all their fault from the get-go, you know. 54:26.000 --> 54:28.000 Yeah, and that's basically what I said in the email to him. 54:28.000 --> 54:30.000 I revealed this information. 54:30.000 --> 54:35.000 I said, you know, I don't, it's not super secret information per se. 54:35.000 --> 54:38.000 It's just that let's make sure, look at the date and time on this. 54:38.000 --> 54:41.000 If they're going to claim, no, no, we didn't say that on that date. 54:41.000 --> 54:43.000 We didn't say that until three days later. 54:43.000 --> 54:44.000 Look at the time stamps. 54:44.000 --> 54:47.000 Every time you send this stuff, you're time stamping, you're dating it. 54:47.000 --> 54:52.000 Anything digital cannot be undone. 54:52.000 --> 54:54.000 It is there for eternity. 54:54.000 --> 54:55.000 It can be tagged. 54:55.000 --> 54:56.000 It's dated. 54:56.000 --> 54:58.000 It can be, it's kept for posterity forever. 54:58.000 --> 55:02.000 You can debate and argue, you know, oh, I didn't call you at that time. 55:02.000 --> 55:04.000 I didn't call you this, you know, I called you Saturday. 55:04.000 --> 55:05.000 I didn't call you Sunday. 55:05.000 --> 55:09.000 You can debate a lot of that because you don't have a lot of control over it. 55:09.000 --> 55:13.000 The phone company, of course, in their digital equipment would have logs of everything. 55:13.000 --> 55:16.000 But in the digital age, everything is logged. 55:16.000 --> 55:19.000 Everything can be found and everything can be uncovered. 55:19.000 --> 55:22.000 So anyway, go to Interzone. 55:22.000 --> 55:23.000 Go check it out. 55:23.000 --> 55:24.000 Go Google for it. 55:24.000 --> 55:29.000 A lot of information on the Blackboard presentation and the presentation itself, which I have looked at. 55:29.000 --> 55:31.000 And I'm familiar with Blackboard. 55:31.000 --> 55:36.000 That's why I was doing this research to begin with because I found it interesting. 55:36.000 --> 55:39.000 And go check it out and go check the site out. 55:39.000 --> 55:41.000 Hopefully that's another conference I'd like to get to. 55:41.000 --> 55:43.000 H2K4, whatever it ends up being called. 55:43.000 --> 55:45.000 But I'd like to definitely get to Interzone. 55:45.000 --> 55:48.000 It'll be next year before they have another one. 55:48.000 --> 55:51.000 But definitely want to check that out. 55:51.000 --> 55:53.000 Now, we would be regressed. 55:53.000 --> 55:55.000 We would be regrettable. 55:55.000 --> 55:58.000 What's the word I'm looking for here? 55:58.000 --> 56:00.000 We would regret it if. 56:00.000 --> 56:02.000 We didn't mention. 56:02.000 --> 56:03.000 We're running low on time. 56:03.000 --> 56:06.000 We would regret it if we didn't mention the SoBig virus. 56:06.000 --> 56:08.000 That's really the news of the week. 56:08.000 --> 56:14.000 SoBig, as in a big pain in my ass is basically what the SoBig virus was. 56:14.000 --> 56:17.000 I've gotten more fucking emails with PIF attachments. 56:17.000 --> 56:20.000 PIF is so Windows 3.1. 56:20.000 --> 56:21.000 Please. 56:21.000 --> 56:22.000 Please. 56:22.000 --> 56:23.000 Come on now. 56:23.000 --> 56:26.000 Yeah, these people need to be educated about this type of stuff already. 56:26.000 --> 56:33.000 I mean, how many years has this crap been going on with Microsoft products and email attachments? 56:33.000 --> 56:35.000 Yeah, but people still click on things. 56:35.000 --> 56:36.000 Oh, PIF file. 56:36.000 --> 56:37.000 That sounds cool. 56:37.000 --> 56:40.000 And it really amazes me. 56:40.000 --> 56:43.000 Honestly, we're two intelligent people talking here. 56:43.000 --> 56:48.000 And I think to myself, is anybody going to click on something that they don't know what it is? 56:48.000 --> 56:51.000 And sure enough, they fucking still do. 56:51.000 --> 56:53.000 Yeah, all the time. 56:53.000 --> 56:55.000 Here's the information you requested. 56:55.000 --> 56:56.000 Click here. 56:56.000 --> 56:57.000 Blam! 56:57.000 --> 56:58.000 They click right on it. 56:58.000 --> 57:04.000 They've requested this information from G742-6Q3 at Hotmail.com. 57:04.000 --> 57:05.000 Come on. 57:05.000 --> 57:07.000 And the thing is, there's really no escape. 57:07.000 --> 57:09.000 I figured, ah, you know, I'm using Linux and Evolution. 57:09.000 --> 57:10.000 It's not going to bother me. 57:10.000 --> 57:11.000 Yeah. 57:11.000 --> 57:15.000 Well, when everybody else in your office gets hit by it and it starts messing up your network 57:15.000 --> 57:22.000 and you can't do anything because there's so much traffic from all these viruses that get stuck on people's Windows machines, you know, you're dead too. 57:22.000 --> 57:31.000 Yeah, and that's a very good point is even if you are immune, so to speak, to the virus, you're not necessarily immune to the effects of the virus. 57:31.000 --> 57:32.000 Exactly. 57:32.000 --> 57:36.000 You know, you have one Linux box in an office of 20 Microsoft boxes. 57:36.000 --> 57:41.000 They get hit and your Linux box is just as dead now because you can't communicate. 57:41.000 --> 57:42.000 No traffic is getting out. 57:42.000 --> 57:43.000 So you may not have gotten hit. 57:43.000 --> 57:45.000 You may not be vulnerable to it. 57:45.000 --> 57:46.000 But guess what? 57:46.000 --> 57:47.000 You're still SOL. 57:47.000 --> 57:50.000 Microsoft is still ruining your life. 57:50.000 --> 57:53.000 Yeah, well, I'm sure Palladium will solve all that, right? 57:53.000 --> 57:55.000 Oh, yeah, definitely. 57:55.000 --> 57:59.000 You, you know what, I'm not going to skip. 57:59.000 --> 58:06.000 I was going to talk a little bit about single sign-on, but I'm going to save that because that could really get into a long conversation. 58:06.000 --> 58:09.000 So I'm going to save that. 58:09.000 --> 58:19.000 I am going to probably, when we're done recording, I'm going to jump on and install this stupid Sun 1 Studio. 58:19.000 --> 58:20.000 Uh-oh. 58:20.000 --> 58:26.000 Because you sent me the code for that, for the DDP Freak tools, and I want to look at it. 58:26.000 --> 58:28.000 I want to go through some of the stuff on there. 58:28.000 --> 58:31.000 So at work, I got a copy of it and installed it at work. 58:31.000 --> 58:32.000 I brought it home. 58:32.000 --> 58:33.000 I have not installed it at home. 58:33.000 --> 58:35.000 I will do that in a few minutes. 58:35.000 --> 58:43.000 But, you know, installing it at work was such a, I almost did it again, such a freaking headache. 58:43.000 --> 58:46.000 I'm trying to control my language for the kiddies out there. 58:46.000 --> 58:47.000 You know, I'm trying to be wholesome. 58:47.000 --> 58:48.000 It's all for the kids. 58:48.000 --> 58:50.000 Yeah, I'll never do it, but I'm trying. 58:50.000 --> 58:52.000 I installed this at work. 58:52.000 --> 58:54.000 At least I think I did. 58:54.000 --> 59:00.000 It is such a freaking headache and getting it configured and set up and installing all the runtime lines. 59:00.000 --> 59:06.000 And my God, this thing is the biggest piece of crap since Forte. 59:06.000 --> 59:09.000 I hated it when it was Forte, and I hate it now. 59:09.000 --> 59:11.000 Yeah, and it takes... 59:11.000 --> 59:15.000 Now, what did you use to develop the Freak tools? 59:15.000 --> 59:24.000 I used Sun One Studio, and it eats 150, 200 megabytes of RAM or something like that for my application that's, you know, 50K. 59:24.000 --> 59:25.000 Yeah. 59:25.000 --> 59:27.000 It's unbelievable. 59:27.000 --> 59:29.000 And I know what you say. 59:29.000 --> 59:30.000 I tried to use Forte once before. 59:30.000 --> 59:32.000 They had a couple of products. 59:32.000 --> 59:33.000 I figured, oh, I'll give it a shot. 59:33.000 --> 59:36.000 But that stuff was garbage, too. 59:36.000 --> 59:41.000 So, Sun One Studio looked nice, but it ended up being pretty much the same old crap. 59:41.000 --> 59:48.000 And what you're going to love even more is that Sun One Studio 4 Update 1 is the last version of Sun One. 59:48.000 --> 59:50.000 And do you know why? 59:50.000 --> 59:51.000 Why is that? 59:51.000 --> 59:55.000 Because Sun recommends that if you want a free version, that you use Forte. 59:56.000 --> 59:58.000 Oh, for God's sake. 59:59.000 --> 01:00:00.000 Oh, jeez. 01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:01.000 There's no escape. 01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:02.000 There is no escape. 01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:04.000 So if our vendors just want to screw you. 01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:05.000 Yeah. 01:00:05.000 --> 01:00:09.000 And you know, but the bad thing that's going to come of this because basically this is their 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:11.000 inability to deliver. 01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:13.000 This is their technology. 01:00:13.000 --> 01:00:14.000 This is their product. 01:00:14.000 --> 01:00:20.000 And they can't deliver a tool that's useful and reasonable to use to develop. 01:00:20.000 --> 01:00:27.000 And that's, unfortunately, going to push people to J++ and C Sharp and C++. 01:00:27.000 --> 01:00:36.000 You know, it's going to push people to the .NET architecture because, frankly, it's a better programming environment as far as ease of use anyway. 01:00:36.000 --> 01:00:37.000 Yeah, definitely. 01:00:37.000 --> 01:00:38.000 I'll agree with that. 01:00:38.000 --> 01:00:45.000 You know, the editor, I use their editor a lot to look at my code and then cut and paste it out somewhere else, you know. 01:00:45.000 --> 01:00:51.000 But it's going to push people to use this other technology and then they're going to whine and complain about Microsoft having a monopoly. 01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:53.000 You know, I'm not even going to go into that. 01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:55.000 Let's just, I'm going to just leave that alone. 01:00:55.000 --> 01:00:57.000 I, we've, we've had a full show. 01:00:57.000 --> 01:00:59.000 I think this has been a very good show. 01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:00.000 Again, not theory. 01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:01.000 Thank you for being on. 01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:02.000 I appreciate it. 01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:03.000 Thank you. 01:01:03.000 --> 01:01:04.000 Thank you. 01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:05.000 Shout outs. 01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:08.000 You know, I got, let's see, 2,600 meetings coming up this week. 01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:12.000 So let's remind everybody, if you're going, go check out your 2,600 meeting. 01:01:12.000 --> 01:01:15.000 Do you have anybody you want to shout out to? 01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:21.000 Yeah, I want to give shout outs to Hacksaw, 1-4-K-4, Ashiant, and the One True Pope. 01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:22.000 Yep. 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:23.000 Big up, big up. 01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:26.000 And, of course, everybody in the forums, they all know who they are. 01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:30.000 Um, shout out to, um, Mute, who hopefully will be on next week. 01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:33.000 Because, as everybody knows, school's starting back up. 01:01:33.000 --> 01:01:38.000 So, you know, it's going to be a rough time for a lot of people coming up this month. 01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:42.000 Um, as usual, you can email us, letters at binrev.com. 01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:44.000 Um, should have that, uh, address. 01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:46.000 Oh, I know what else I got to mention. 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:49.000 Big, big, fat, donkey dick shout out. 01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:51.000 Damn it, I messed, I said a bad word. 01:01:51.000 --> 01:01:53.000 Big, fat shout outs. 01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:56.000 Well, maybe I shouldn't use donkey dick in a shout out. 01:01:56.000 --> 01:01:58.000 Probably bad and good. 01:01:58.000 --> 01:02:01.000 Big shout out, many props to Media Misfit. 01:02:01.000 --> 01:02:04.000 Redesign of binrev.com is amazing. 01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:05.000 Amazing. 01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:08.000 I, I just absolutely love the look and feel of it. 01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:12.000 We've been going back and forth in email a lot, kind of hammering it out. 01:02:12.000 --> 01:02:13.000 He did all the work. 01:02:13.000 --> 01:02:16.000 All his, give all the props to him. 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:19.000 I went in this past weekend and filled out all the rest of the code. 01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:23.000 Um, kind of lined up a few other minor little things. 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:25.000 Some, um, navigation stuff. 01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:28.000 And, as far as I know, the site is completely up and running now. 01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:29.000 Everything has been replaced. 01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:32.000 The ordering system, everything is new. 01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:33.000 Show notes are up there now. 01:02:33.000 --> 01:02:36.000 So, big, big shout outs to him for that. 01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:37.000 I appreciate that a lot. 01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:40.000 And, actually, maybe I need to get him on an episode one time, too. 01:02:40.000 --> 01:02:43.000 Um, might have to work that out with him. 01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:46.000 Um, so if you're listening, big shout outs to that. 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:49.000 And, um, is that it? 01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:50.000 Any, do you have, you got your shouts? 01:02:50.000 --> 01:02:51.000 Anybody else? 01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:55.000 Um, tonight's closing music is going to be Mr. Royce. 01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:58.000 Uh, so wet till you drop. 01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:00.000 I think that's everybody. 01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:01.000 Yeah, I think I'm good. 01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:03.000 I think if we missed anybody, we'll get them next week. 01:03:03.000 --> 01:03:04.000 Yep. 01:03:04.000 --> 01:03:06.000 And, you know, next week, same hack time. 01:03:06.000 --> 01:03:07.000 Same hack channel. 01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:08.000 Peace out. 01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:09.000 Peace out. 01:03:38.000 --> 01:03:39.000 Peace out. 01:03:40.000 --> 01:03:41.000 Peace out. 01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:42.000 Peace out. 01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:43.000 Peace out. 01:03:43.000 --> 01:03:44.000 Peace out. 01:03:44.000 --> 01:03:45.000 Peace out. 01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:46.000 Peace out. 01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:48.000 Peace out. 01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:51.000 Peace out. 01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:52.000 Peace out. 01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:52.760 Peace out. 01:03:57.000 --> 01:03:58.000 Peace out. 01:03:59.000 --> 01:04:00.560 Peace out. 01:04:01.600 --> 01:04:03.500 Peace out. 01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:37.980 Thank you. 01:04:38.000 --> 01:05:07.980 Thank you. 01:05:08.000 --> 01:05:37.980 Thank you. 01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:40.000 Thank you.