WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:08.920 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:09.360 --> 00:14.760 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million game pegs 00:14.760 --> 00:19.960 of you and a fag pose, in your digital stance getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the 00:19.960 --> 00:25.900 net in my six foe, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable, 00:25.900 --> 00:31.200 on the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and 00:31.200 --> 00:36.700 I'm a hero, in a flash I'll screw you on burning dream packs, you need some ISO, let me through 00:36.700 --> 00:42.140 my hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, in a digital hug, you just caught 00:42.140 --> 00:48.400 the love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, your CG, it's 00:48.400 --> 00:52.900 all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattling 00:52.900 --> 00:57.600 your bones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ, leave you flat on your 00:57.600 --> 01:02.940 back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:03.420 --> 01:10.600 This is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RAMs, SIFs, 01:10.600 --> 01:13.680 SIFs, this is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers. 01:15.120 --> 01:22.840 Alright, welcome to Binary Revolution Radio Episode 11, I am StankDawg here once again for 01:22.840 --> 01:28.480 your listening pleasure, or pain as it were, whatever you prefer, and I am joined this 01:28.480 --> 01:33.940 week by another special guest, someone you've heard of and known before, but you've probably 01:33.940 --> 01:37.280 never heard, I don't think you've ever been on the air before, have you? 01:37.760 --> 01:38.200 Uh, no. 01:38.540 --> 01:41.860 No, so, Voodoo Hal, say hello to the people. 01:42.480 --> 01:43.040 Hello everyone. 01:43.840 --> 01:49.980 Voodoo Hal is on here today, cause we're gonna talk about some programming topics, and some 01:49.980 --> 01:56.780 source code and open source ideas, so, um, we're gonna jump into that in a minute, but 01:56.780 --> 02:01.600 before we do, I want to pimp the IRC channel. 02:01.900 --> 02:08.420 Now, I know a lot of the regular listeners know that we have an IRC channel, but, um, I 02:08.420 --> 02:13.960 want, I wanna emphasize that it's, it's open all the time, that channel is 24-7. 02:14.300 --> 02:19.120 The show doesn't have to be on necessarily for you to go out there and visit and have some 02:19.120 --> 02:25.920 intelligent conversation, um, so, for those of you who don't know, it is irc.esper.net, 02:27.040 --> 02:34.220 that's E-S-P-E-R dot net, channel binrev, which is pound B-I-N-R-E-V, and that is the 02:34.220 --> 02:38.920 main channel for, where most of us hang out and just talk when we, we're come and go, 02:39.040 --> 02:41.980 and a lot of people idle in it, but for the most part, you can always see a few people 02:41.980 --> 02:46.740 in there, so, stop in, say hi, talk, ask questions, it's a pretty good environment, 02:46.740 --> 02:50.920 pretty good place to hang out, especially during the show, we, you, we get upwards of 02:50.920 --> 02:55.820 10, 15 people in there at any given time during the show, of course, depending on everyone's 02:55.820 --> 03:00.040 schedules, I know a lot of people listen to the MP3s, um, and download it and listen when 03:00.040 --> 03:02.240 they have time, I know, I think you do that, don't you, Hal? 03:02.840 --> 03:03.700 Uh, for the most part, yeah. 03:03.820 --> 03:07.800 Yeah, see, I, I listen to a lot of the shows while I'm coding, while I'm at work, so, um, 03:07.800 --> 03:11.180 I know a lot of people do that and they can't make the IRC, but, just wanted to let people 03:11.180 --> 03:16.160 know that it is out there, um, so, come on, hang out, and check it out, and we also have, 03:16.280 --> 03:19.940 you know, there's some other channels, there's an RFA channel, there's a DDP Code channel, 03:19.980 --> 03:23.840 which we're going to talk about in a few minutes, so, uh, yeah, go check that out, it's another 03:23.840 --> 03:29.860 source of, um, hanging out, meeting new people, talking about, uh, hacking topics and things 03:29.860 --> 03:30.700 that you may have in common. 03:30.700 --> 03:39.200 Um, also, before we go into some of the news topics, um, I got an email from, well, it 03:39.200 --> 03:44.300 came from a person, but I never give out people's real names on the air unless they specifically 03:44.300 --> 03:49.260 tell me so, or authorize me so, or give me a handle, so, I'm just going to say from an 03:49.260 --> 03:56.160 anonymous person who, uh, informed me that the server was down, and he actually got the 03:56.160 --> 04:01.260 contact information to send me the email from Google, so, I thought that was kind of 04:01.260 --> 04:05.880 cool, um, basically just called to say that he found the show, and he liked it, so, I'm 04:05.880 --> 04:09.160 glad to hear that, thank you very much for saying that, and I hope you stick around and listen 04:09.160 --> 04:16.360 to the show, I hope we, uh, keep it up a good show each week, um, but, is there, is there 04:16.360 --> 04:19.560 a hosting company out there that doesn't suck? 04:20.360 --> 04:26.140 I just, I, I keep trying all these different hosts, and I don't know why the 04:26.140 --> 04:31.580 servers go down, there's no excuse for it, I'm supposed to be guaranteed 99.9% uptime, 04:31.740 --> 04:37.940 and I've never found one that will guarantee me that, it's just, I don't, I don't know what 04:37.940 --> 04:41.000 else to do, I don't know if there's a point in moving around again, because every time 04:41.000 --> 04:47.100 I go to a new server, I have the same problems, and I lose a lot of development time, I lose 04:47.100 --> 04:51.780 a lot of time preparing, and fixing, and modifying stuff to run on the new server, because everyone's 04:51.780 --> 04:56.020 got it set up differently, no two control panels are ever the same, they always 04:56.020 --> 05:02.620 got different naming conventions, yada, yada, yada, so, yeah, that gets kinda old, so, unless 05:02.620 --> 05:07.420 it becomes a severe, severe problem, I guess we're gonna stay there for a while, um, I'm 05:07.420 --> 05:11.200 actually probably gonna break down and sign a year contract, right now we're month to 05:11.200 --> 05:15.580 month, and actually Bland is taking care of that right now, so I'd like to take that off 05:15.580 --> 05:20.880 of him, um, so he, he's actually got some ideas in mind that he wants to pursue as well, 05:20.960 --> 05:25.280 so I'm gonna try to, try to get that transferred over, and we might be committing to this current 05:25.280 --> 05:29.360 host for a year, even though they're not the greatest, at least they've got a fair price, 05:29.520 --> 05:36.020 and for the most part, they're up and running. So, um, thank you again for the email, I hope 05:36.020 --> 05:39.960 you stick around, and actually, we've had a lot of new visitors lately, a lot of, a lot 05:39.960 --> 05:44.240 of new people on the forums, a lot of new, um, uh, emails I've been getting and hearing 05:44.240 --> 05:49.760 from people, and, um, I guess we thank the Googlebot for that, don't you think? 05:50.700 --> 05:53.440 Uh, yeah, it's, uh, it's doing its job, but. 05:53.640 --> 05:59.280 Yeah, I actually did not intend, as people in the forums know, I didn't intend to invite 05:59.280 --> 06:06.140 all the bots out here, but, um, again, because of the, the logic of moving from one server 06:06.140 --> 06:12.840 to another, I mistakenly took out the exception rule to stop them from coming in, I was blocking 06:12.840 --> 06:19.540 all user, user agents from coming into the forums folder, so, um, I took that out and 06:19.540 --> 06:23.440 moved it to the new server, thinking that I would also move the forums over that same 06:23.440 --> 06:28.320 day, something came up, and I didn't get it done, but I forgot to go back and reset the 06:28.320 --> 06:35.360 damn exclusion rule, so, along came the bots, and the rest is history, so, everybody wave, 06:35.360 --> 06:41.960 say hi to the Googlebot, say hi to a hot bot, hot bot's a big fat twat, just throw that 06:41.960 --> 06:47.100 out there, um, and actually, it's good, you know, really, yeah, you gotta take the good 06:47.100 --> 06:51.160 with the bad, but, you know, there's, there's a lot of good, a lot of good people coming in, 06:51.200 --> 06:55.040 a lot of information that could be brought in, and, um, we just have to, uh, deal with 06:55.040 --> 06:59.260 it, I mean, growth is a part of life, and we are gonna have to make the site grow and continue, 06:59.440 --> 07:03.200 so, um, I think it's a good thing, so, uh, we'll deal with it, we'll take it as it 07:03.200 --> 07:07.220 comes on, and there's no point in blocking it back out now, and, and putting the exclusion 07:07.220 --> 07:11.280 back in, because it's, it's pretty much out there, so, let's just ride it out and see 07:11.280 --> 07:11.800 where it goes. 07:13.280 --> 07:19.940 Now, I have actually been having something fun to do at work for a change recently, um, 07:20.200 --> 07:25.440 I've been working with, uh, PGP, I've actually been assigned to do some PGP stuff at work, 07:25.440 --> 07:30.540 and it's something I've wanted to do for years, and I've never had an excuse or a reason 07:30.540 --> 07:34.380 to sit down and force myself to do it, I've always had something else higher priority, 07:34.860 --> 07:41.180 so I finally got to sit down with, uh, PGP running under Solaris, and I'm finally tinkering 07:41.180 --> 07:45.120 around with that, I've been working with, uh, Psy2, we've been doing some testing, he knows 07:45.120 --> 07:50.000 a little bit about it as well, um, we're both kind of playing with that, and I actually, 07:50.000 --> 07:56.780 it's not as bad as I first thought, you know, it's, it's a little intimidating, it's definitely 07:56.780 --> 08:02.980 not ready for prime time use for, you know, your everyday user at home, um, so it's a little 08:02.980 --> 08:09.180 disconcerting that only the hardcore tech geeks of us will actually be able to sit down 08:09.180 --> 08:14.040 and make use of encryption, I think everybody deserves to have the same access to encryption 08:14.040 --> 08:21.140 and privacy, but there still hasn't been a user-friendly front end, I still, I, and I've 08:21.140 --> 08:26.420 tried several, I've tried several plugins for Outlook and for, for, uh, Eudora and stuff 08:26.420 --> 08:32.600 like that, I, have you, uh, Voodoo Hal, have you ever used or found a, uh, PGP front end 08:32.600 --> 08:35.920 that a normal, what you would call a normal everyday user could use? 08:36.400 --> 08:40.660 Actually, back in the day, uh, for the company I worked for, we used a, one of the Outlook 08:40.660 --> 08:45.980 plugins, which I think was the, uh, off of, uh, IPGP.net, I believe it was. 08:47.300 --> 08:47.700 IPGP? 08:47.900 --> 08:49.260 I believe that's what it was called. 08:49.280 --> 08:49.380 Okay. 08:49.860 --> 08:55.280 Um, but it worked well, um, never had really that many issues with it, and then if you, 08:55.420 --> 09:00.020 I don't know if you've seen PGP Phone, but that's kind of an interesting tool, um, completely 09:00.020 --> 09:06.400 encrypted voice over IP program, um, Zimmerman and that whole group brought up quite a while 09:06.400 --> 09:06.620 ago. 09:07.340 --> 09:07.600 Hmm. 09:07.600 --> 09:15.080 Yeah, everyone that I've ever seen added an extra step or two to the process of sending 09:15.080 --> 09:20.240 and receiving mail, and they, I think for your typical user to use it, it needs to be 09:20.240 --> 09:27.020 more invisible, it needs to do all that stuff behind the scenes, and, you know, as, the least 09:27.020 --> 09:28.740 intrusive it could possibly be. 09:28.880 --> 09:33.860 I mean, the most it should do is pop up and say, you know, uh, here's the, someone has sent 09:33.860 --> 09:37.840 you their public key, you know, do you want to add it, and then it should automatically 09:37.840 --> 09:41.520 show you the message, and unfortunately, I just haven't seen one. 09:41.520 --> 09:45.220 Yeah, I, I'm actually still would like to have a, I, I can use the command line one, like 09:45.220 --> 09:49.280 I said, but I would still like to have a nice, simple plug-in, so I might, I might check 09:49.280 --> 09:51.540 out ipgp.net, you said, right? 09:51.960 --> 09:52.160 Yeah. 09:52.280 --> 09:53.420 Yeah, I might go check that one out. 09:53.420 --> 09:59.760 Um, another thing that I've had to deal with this week, and actually, it's not me, it's 09:59.760 --> 10:03.440 our good friend, Dual Parallel, um, I thought I'd bring this up on the air, even though he 10:03.440 --> 10:07.640 posted this in the forums, I want to make sure we explain to people, um, last week we 10:07.640 --> 10:12.360 had Logan 5 on, and we talked about a lot of the, um, issues we have with publishing 10:12.360 --> 10:17.960 a magazine, and believe me, it is not a simple thing, and it's definitely not something we 10:17.960 --> 10:20.160 have mastered yet, so we're learning as we go along. 10:20.160 --> 10:27.580 Um, one of the things we have discovered is that we're not a warehouse, we're not a retail 10:27.580 --> 10:37.940 outlet, we don't exactly have the capacity to keep inventory, so, um, Dual has a few 10:37.940 --> 10:42.760 issues of 1.1 left, and he's actually going to print some more, uh, I guess by the time 10:42.760 --> 10:49.220 we air this, it'll actually be, he'll actually have those printed, hopefully, but, um, he is 10:49.220 --> 10:55.480 basically, and, and not just him, but everybody is basically moving on to 1.2 as far as distributing 10:55.480 --> 10:58.400 and, and being able to access them at your 2,600 meetings. 10:58.980 --> 11:03.940 Um, definitely, absolutely, the back issues are available, but unfortunately, we're only 11:03.940 --> 11:07.940 going to be able to offer them on binrev.com at this time, and that's using PayPal. 11:08.640 --> 11:13.520 Um, unless you get lucky, if somebody at one of your meetings, if you, if you go to Chicago 11:13.520 --> 11:18.300 meeting and, and Mute is there, or if you come to my meeting, I will have them on hand, 11:18.880 --> 11:24.900 um, but Dual basically has run out of them, and it is not a simple task for him to go get 11:24.900 --> 11:27.200 them printed up, you know, on demand. 11:27.320 --> 11:28.900 He can't really go print one or two copies. 11:29.060 --> 11:31.200 It's very, very cost-ineffective. 11:31.200 --> 11:37.040 So, anybody who wants to order the past issues, and I hope you do, I really hope you do, it's 11:37.040 --> 11:43.180 a great issue, um, you're going to have to come through binrev.com, um, possibly if there's 11:43.180 --> 11:48.000 extreme circumstances, we'll try to work something else out, but frankly, uh, he's run out of 11:48.000 --> 11:52.840 them, and we can't just keep boxes and boxes of them in everyone's house, especially as the 11:52.840 --> 11:54.400 number of issues starts to add up. 11:54.400 --> 11:57.160 Um, so, I am going to do that. 11:57.240 --> 12:02.280 I am going to have issues of, back issues of the old ones available, but, um, yeah, it's 12:02.280 --> 12:06.680 just too much burden for everybody in DDP to have boxes of these on hand. 12:06.760 --> 12:14.600 So, unfortunately, we are going to have to, um, cut off the 1.1 orders, um, from Dual, from 12:14.600 --> 12:19.660 the P.O. box, which is, again, I should remind everybody also that that is a cash and carry 12:19.660 --> 12:22.660 operation, uh, no checks, no money orders. 12:22.660 --> 12:25.300 That's not something we are capable of handling right now, either. 12:25.900 --> 12:27.840 Unfortunately, it's going to have to be cash only. 12:27.940 --> 12:31.980 Put it in an envelope, cover it with a piece of paper, you know, so nobody tells that there's 12:31.980 --> 12:37.020 cash in there, but there's just, that's really the only way that he can do it, um, so keep 12:37.020 --> 12:41.380 that in mind if you're sending orders to them, or, again, the easiest way, I know a lot of 12:41.380 --> 12:47.060 people don't have PayPal accounts, or don't trust PayPal, or don't want to use them, and 12:47.060 --> 12:48.160 technically, you don't need an account. 12:48.160 --> 12:53.100 You can, uh, pay for it with a credit card through PayPal, via PayPal, without any problems. 12:53.160 --> 12:55.720 You don't actually have to create an account, but I know people aren't comfortable with 12:55.720 --> 12:55.960 that. 12:56.480 --> 13:01.980 So, um, like I said, for the most part, uh, the current issue will work around, and Dual 13:01.980 --> 13:03.820 will still take them through the P.O. box. 13:04.280 --> 13:06.820 Uh, the directions are on magazine.benrep.com. 13:06.820 --> 13:12.740 Um, so, I just wanted to throw that out there, and that has been my week. 13:13.120 --> 13:18.180 I, uh, went back to work this week, for listeners know I was on vacation, and I went back to work 13:18.180 --> 13:22.540 this week, so I've been working a lot of hours, and, uh, really haven't had a lot of, a lot 13:22.540 --> 13:30.860 of hacking time, and, um, hopefully, upcoming, this upcoming week or two, I will have some, uh, 13:30.860 --> 13:31.860 better stuff to talk about. 13:31.860 --> 13:38.680 Uh, maybe, maybe this will make up for it, if, uh, Voodoo Hal, if you can talk a few minutes 13:38.680 --> 13:45.200 about your OOP classes, your object-oriented programming and C++, which actually, we probably 13:45.200 --> 13:46.860 shouldn't pigeonhole the C++. 13:47.020 --> 13:51.460 You want to keep it more emphasized, keep the emphasis on the object-oriented programming 13:51.460 --> 13:52.260 part, do you not? 13:52.260 --> 13:57.660 Right, um, mostly, definitely want to keep it on the, the concepts of programming right 13:57.660 --> 14:03.780 now, so that it can be applied to C++, to Java, hell, even Python, I believe, is object-oriented. 14:04.100 --> 14:06.220 Right, yeah, I absolutely agree 100%. 14:06.220 --> 14:12.820 Um, but, yeah, uh, the, the, the lectures are going well, um, hopefully, I, I don't know if 14:12.820 --> 14:17.460 I have time, but we may, because no one seemed to log the last one, which I didn't think about 14:17.460 --> 14:24.160 doing myself, um, I may try to, if some people want to redo that one, um, I don't know if 14:24.160 --> 14:25.020 anybody's up for that. 14:25.500 --> 14:27.280 Yeah, that, I would definitely be up for it. 14:27.360 --> 14:32.700 It's, it's just so hard to find one set time that everybody can make it to. 14:33.040 --> 14:38.980 I mean, everybody has real world, and jobs, and school, and all those issues, so, um, it's 14:38.980 --> 14:40.380 just so hard to find a good time. 14:41.020 --> 14:43.040 Um, what, what have you decided? 14:43.140 --> 14:44.520 You're going to do it every other week. 14:44.520 --> 14:47.420 Do you want to explain the, the timing you've come up with? 14:47.760 --> 14:52.080 Sure, um, basically I've posted a, uh, a poll for everyone, and it looks like Friday 14:52.080 --> 14:52.860 is the best. 14:52.960 --> 14:57.120 I know it's not perfect for everyone, but it seems to work out for the majority of people 14:57.120 --> 15:00.180 interested, um, so we're going to do those Friday, every other week. 15:00.720 --> 15:05.340 If, for instance, it falls on, well, one of the 2,600 Fridays, we're going to push it 15:05.340 --> 15:10.380 back to probably the next weekend, or the next Friday, and we're going to try to keep 15:10.380 --> 15:11.920 them at 9.30 Eastern Time. 15:12.500 --> 15:17.440 9.30 Eastern Time for approximately an hour, or however long it takes, obviously, but approximately 15:17.440 --> 15:17.940 an hour? 15:18.100 --> 15:22.260 Yeah, the first time, I think the first one went for two hours, um, the second one may 15:22.260 --> 15:26.260 have made it an hour and a half, so at least, at least an hour and a half I'm going to try 15:26.260 --> 15:26.560 for. 15:27.260 --> 15:28.040 Good, good. 15:28.420 --> 15:30.560 However long it takes to cover the material. 15:31.020 --> 15:31.360 Right. 15:31.360 --> 15:41.500 Um, yeah, and that is also, you can go to irc.esper.net, and the channel, however, is... 15:41.500 --> 15:42.300 DDP Code. 15:42.680 --> 15:42.980 Yep. 15:43.480 --> 15:45.560 Pound DDP Code. 15:45.560 --> 15:55.620 Um, and I went to the first one and listened in, uh, actually, it was kind of funny, we 15:55.620 --> 16:01.520 were actually taping last week's show while you, when you started, so I came in late, but, 16:01.600 --> 16:06.420 um, I was, I mean, my jaw dropped at how many people were in the channel. 16:06.500 --> 16:11.300 I mean, there were a lot of people in there, there's definitely people interested, so, um, 16:11.300 --> 16:14.600 I, I think it was a huge, huge success. 16:15.220 --> 16:20.260 Definitely, um, this last one wasn't so, there weren't that many people, but the first one 16:20.260 --> 16:21.060 was just amazing. 16:21.520 --> 16:25.920 Yeah, the first one had, like, a full month or so build-up, so it was, everybody knew the 16:25.920 --> 16:29.480 date, and I think, since we didn't quite have the timing issue down, we might have missed 16:29.480 --> 16:29.920 a couple people. 16:29.980 --> 16:35.300 It might be a good idea to kind of rehash number two, rehash the second one, cover some 16:35.300 --> 16:39.780 of those topics again, and maybe even add to it kind of a two and a half if you, uh, if 16:39.780 --> 16:41.220 you want to do something like that. 16:41.760 --> 16:48.100 Um, and definitely go to the forums, and check out the calendar. 16:48.540 --> 16:52.380 Now, are you, you're posting that out there, maintaining it on the calendar, so we all, 16:52.460 --> 16:57.040 we can depend on it being out there, whatever, whenever the date and time is scheduled, you 16:57.040 --> 16:58.120 can put all that stuff out there? 16:58.680 --> 17:00.640 Yep, I'm trying to manage that. 17:01.640 --> 17:06.180 If you don't, one of us will, between Bland and I, we'll, we'll, we'll try to make sure 17:06.180 --> 17:11.200 it gets out there so everybody can count on, I think the calendar helps so much, because 17:11.200 --> 17:16.700 between doing this show, and between RFA, and Off the Hook, and all the stuff I want 17:16.700 --> 17:23.560 to listen to, and need to like to listen to, um, in addition to the once a year, or once 17:23.560 --> 17:29.760 every few months, things like the conferences, and, and DEF CON, and InterZ0ne, and, and H2K, 17:29.760 --> 17:34.520 whatever, whenever that comes along, adding all that stuff on there, I can look ahead 17:34.520 --> 17:41.560 of time, and, and plan to be in certain places, and plan to be, you know, in the monthly 2600 17:41.560 --> 17:41.800 meetings. 17:41.800 --> 17:44.280 It's, it's, it's been tremendously helpful to me personally. 17:44.860 --> 17:47.140 I hope it helps other people. 17:47.140 --> 17:49.600 I don't know if anybody else uses it as much as I do. 17:49.660 --> 17:50.740 I think it's fantastic. 17:52.220 --> 17:56.300 I've started looking at it more, actually, um, and, and really am finding it useful, especially 17:56.300 --> 18:00.800 now that we're having so many things come up, you know, once every couple of weeks, and 18:00.800 --> 18:02.800 actually, what, two radio shows a week now? 18:03.080 --> 18:04.380 RFA and Ben Rez? 18:04.460 --> 18:06.000 Yeah, I mean, yeah, that definitely. 18:06.140 --> 18:06.540 Lots of stuff now. 18:06.760 --> 18:10.000 Yeah, there's, there's, there's, and there's even more than that that we listen to, but 18:10.000 --> 18:14.260 yeah, there's definitely those two that we put out, um, of course, dual putting out RFA, 18:14.860 --> 18:24.120 um, but, I, I mean, I assume that in your, at your job, at work, you have, well, I shouldn't 18:24.120 --> 18:24.360 assume. 18:24.360 --> 18:30.960 I'll say, in my job, we have, um, Microsoft Outlook, in addition to, uh, plug-in for a web 18:30.960 --> 18:36.920 access to calendar information, where they list, uh, group meetings, and scheduled appointments, 18:37.040 --> 18:42.080 and stuff like that, and that's not exactly something I can list the 2600 meetings on, 18:42.140 --> 18:45.840 or the BinRev radio show, and, and release dates, and stuff like that. 18:45.880 --> 18:48.840 I can't put it out there, because of, obviously, the subject matter. 18:49.060 --> 18:53.400 So, to me, the calendar is just a place where I can put all the other, the personal, the, 18:53.400 --> 18:58.040 the, uh, stuff that I can't talk about, and, you know, you don't tell people about it 18:58.040 --> 18:59.220 at parties, you know, that kind of stuff. 18:59.220 --> 19:05.140 So, it works, it works great for me, so I hope other people find it useful, um, and 19:05.140 --> 19:06.460 anybody can post something to it. 19:06.500 --> 19:10.500 I know, um, a lot of people are posting their back to school and stuff like that, which is 19:10.500 --> 19:15.960 okay, but, um, starts to clutter up the calendar, so, but if you have any, another thing I think 19:15.960 --> 19:19.400 would be good on there, too, is the, um, the phone conferences that have been going on 19:19.400 --> 19:19.620 lately. 19:19.620 --> 19:22.760 I know Decoder has been, uh, getting on the phone conferences. 19:22.820 --> 19:24.300 He lives on the phone conferences. 19:24.300 --> 19:28.660 I know he's been doing a lot of the phone conferences lately, and Icon, and a bunch of 19:28.660 --> 19:32.400 those guys, so if they can use the calendar to put them on there, that would be awesome, 19:32.540 --> 19:36.160 and we can, maybe that would help organize, because I know sometimes people will say, 19:36.240 --> 19:40.300 oh, I was on for 15 minutes, and no one was there, or I didn't get home until this time, 19:40.340 --> 19:41.800 and I didn't know if you were still there. 19:42.220 --> 19:46.980 Maybe if we put it out in the calendar, it'll kind of keep people, uh, uh, in sync together. 19:47.640 --> 19:48.000 Definitely. 19:48.000 --> 19:50.560 Not to be confused with Justin Timberlake's in sync. 19:51.720 --> 19:55.500 Um, you had something else you were telling me about earlier that I thought was interesting. 19:55.620 --> 19:58.600 You were saying something about, um, some ghetto driving. 19:59.160 --> 20:03.260 Oh, yes, I'm expanding my, uh, ghetto driving horizons. 20:03.480 --> 20:08.820 Uh, this week I went to pick up, uh, looking for a used calculator for school, ended up finding 20:08.820 --> 20:12.060 a 5-inch LCD at a pawn shop, and I had a video in. 20:12.220 --> 20:13.500 That's almost like a calculator. 20:14.220 --> 20:15.200 Yeah, pretty much. 20:15.240 --> 20:15.900 Well, not exactly. 20:15.960 --> 20:16.560 Okay, go ahead. 20:16.560 --> 20:23.040 But, um, basically I'm designing, I shouldn't say designing, I don't know, I'm implementing 20:23.040 --> 20:28.140 a war driving slash mp3 player for my car, and that's going to be the key item. 20:29.220 --> 20:32.060 Well, the key item is the screen, the LCD screen? 20:32.520 --> 20:32.960 For me. 20:34.180 --> 20:38.100 Well, that's because you already have the real key component. 20:38.640 --> 20:39.180 Well, true. 20:39.340 --> 20:42.300 The laptop itself, the wireless equipment, things like that. 20:42.300 --> 20:48.160 And you, and it's because, basically, did you say that your, the LCD of the laptop had 20:48.160 --> 20:48.780 died on you? 20:48.780 --> 20:52.240 Um, yeah, um, it burned out, so it's getting mounted under the seat. 20:52.600 --> 20:57.940 So, that is definitely, that is absolutely the epitome of ghetto driving. 20:58.680 --> 21:05.240 Mounted under the seat, run the cables up to the LCD now, um, this actually sounds like 21:05.240 --> 21:09.620 a very interesting project of, I wouldn't know, it's definitely going to be some troubleshooting 21:09.620 --> 21:15.260 involved in this whole process, because how does, how does the detection work for a three-inch 21:15.260 --> 21:16.120 monitor, you know? 21:16.640 --> 21:20.840 How do you set up drivers and resolution, and there's going to be some guesswork in there. 21:21.160 --> 21:21.680 Oh, definitely. 21:22.060 --> 21:26.320 Um, hopefully it won't be too, too much of a problem, but I'm assuming because as video 21:26.320 --> 21:31.000 out, I think it only supports up to, what, 640 by 480, maybe 800 by 600 anyway. 21:31.000 --> 21:33.640 Or is it three, actually, is it 320 by 240? 21:34.240 --> 21:34.620 Oh, really? 21:34.720 --> 21:37.100 So it's even, I'm not, you know what, I'm really not sure. 21:37.340 --> 21:40.820 It's definitely no more than 640 by 480, I'm pretty sure. 21:41.360 --> 21:42.440 That shouldn't be too large. 21:42.580 --> 21:42.780 Yeah. 21:44.900 --> 21:45.260 Hmm. 21:45.540 --> 21:46.280 Well, that's, that's. 21:46.280 --> 21:48.380 It's not ghetto enough until there's duct tape involved. 21:48.900 --> 21:52.020 Well, I'm sure, you're going to have to duct tape it under the seat to keep it from sliding 21:52.020 --> 21:52.540 around. 21:52.960 --> 21:53.360 Exactly. 21:53.420 --> 21:55.300 You have to have some duct tape in there somewhere. 21:56.140 --> 22:00.980 Um, actually, you know, I don't, I joking, I joke about, you know, getifying some 22:00.980 --> 22:07.020 things, but even, even though you're going to use some ghetto equipment, you can still 22:07.020 --> 22:08.780 make that look really, really nice. 22:08.860 --> 22:11.780 You can put the laptop under the seat, no one will see it or know it's there. 22:12.260 --> 22:15.620 I don't know what you're going to do for an occasional reboot, but you'll be running 22:15.620 --> 22:17.420 some flavor of Linux, I assume. 22:17.500 --> 22:18.840 You might not have to reboot so much. 22:19.300 --> 22:23.600 Well, probably not, since it's all memory resident and I don't have to worry about anything 22:23.600 --> 22:24.040 dying. 22:24.040 --> 22:25.300 You know what, that's a good idea. 22:25.420 --> 22:29.660 And then when you shut the car off or when everything gets powered down, it's no big 22:29.660 --> 22:31.400 deal, you reboot from the CD again. 22:31.920 --> 22:35.400 Right, well, and plus, with the, uh, with having a hard drive, I can actually, and being 22:35.400 --> 22:39.080 wireless, I can upload my MP3s and things like that to the hard drive and not have to 22:39.080 --> 22:40.700 worry about the OS ever dying on me. 22:41.060 --> 22:41.460 Right. 22:42.100 --> 22:44.600 Like me and Windows X fucking P. 22:45.580 --> 22:49.380 Ah, dammit, I didn't even, I made it halfway through the show before using the F word this 22:49.380 --> 22:49.660 time. 22:50.200 --> 22:50.560 Dammit. 22:50.560 --> 22:54.920 God, my Windows XP died again this week. 22:55.840 --> 22:56.240 Again. 22:57.520 --> 23:00.140 Oh, God, it makes me so fucking sick. 23:01.120 --> 23:04.160 I am trying my best to migrate everything to Linux. 23:04.900 --> 23:11.100 I am trying my absolute damnedest to migrate every single thing that I do to Linux. 23:11.280 --> 23:12.420 I won't be able to do it at work. 23:12.500 --> 23:13.200 They won't let me. 23:13.280 --> 23:14.120 They won't support it. 23:14.120 --> 23:20.060 But at home, I am making the, I'm going to keep one box for playing games until I find 23:20.060 --> 23:23.400 even that I'm going to try to, to get away from using Windows for. 23:23.460 --> 23:28.900 I'm going to try to, if I have to use a virtual PC or an emulator or whatever, I'm going to 23:28.900 --> 23:30.360 try to even get away from it for that. 23:30.420 --> 23:32.960 Or, just, I don't play that many games to be honest. 23:33.020 --> 23:36.300 I can play some of the bigger games on Linux anyway. 23:36.480 --> 23:38.800 So maybe I'll just give up on the whole gaming. 23:38.800 --> 23:43.920 I'm just so sick of Windows XP dying every week and it requires a full reinstall. 23:43.920 --> 23:45.600 It just, it makes me sick. 23:46.100 --> 23:47.300 Absolutely makes me sick. 23:47.700 --> 23:49.520 Don't put any flavor of Windows on that. 23:49.720 --> 23:50.820 You know better than that, right? 23:52.320 --> 23:53.240 Oh, come on. 23:53.280 --> 23:55.420 You mean 3.1 isn't a good idea for what I'm doing? 23:56.260 --> 23:57.580 Well, no. 23:58.600 --> 24:02.860 You know, actually, now that I think about it, maybe Nopix won't be the best thing because 24:02.860 --> 24:08.260 if you are going to have to have some tweaks or some configuration for that monitor, 24:08.260 --> 24:15.040 if it auto-detects and runs at a default resolution that's acceptable, that would be great. 24:15.120 --> 24:16.440 But I don't know if it will do that. 24:16.500 --> 24:22.660 You might have to actually do some modification to the Nopix image and customize it and make 24:22.660 --> 24:25.920 the new, make a new image, redistribute it to yourself. 24:26.020 --> 24:26.580 Is that a term? 24:27.320 --> 24:28.180 You know what I'm saying? 24:28.180 --> 24:34.000 And the same thing also with the, depends on what kind of wireless card. 24:34.260 --> 24:37.140 I think Bland has had some issues with some wireless cards. 24:37.260 --> 24:41.140 They had to work up some hack jobs to get the wireless card to be recognized and work properly 24:41.140 --> 24:42.980 in some of the different distros. 24:43.560 --> 24:44.180 That's true. 24:44.660 --> 24:48.660 I would say very proficient at the Linux terminals, so I'm not too worried about getting 24:48.660 --> 24:49.480 my hardware working. 24:49.480 --> 24:55.620 Yeah, the thing is that if it's Nopix, though, when you reboot, I mean, you can't do that 24:55.620 --> 24:56.720 every time it reboots. 24:56.920 --> 25:05.400 Where would you, where would you, maybe even just fit some small files on the diskette and 25:05.400 --> 25:08.020 have it read from the diskette somehow? 25:08.840 --> 25:12.420 Well, also, like I said, I'm going to have the hard drive for MP3 storage, so I can actually 25:12.420 --> 25:14.300 store config files and things like that there. 25:15.220 --> 25:18.460 Nopix is pretty good about that, unbooting, telling it where config things are. 25:18.460 --> 25:19.320 Oh, it is? 25:19.400 --> 25:19.540 Okay. 25:19.680 --> 25:24.120 See, I never, I was wondering if that's, the problem would be how would you point the Nopix 25:24.120 --> 25:27.240 to look on your hard drive or on the diskette for that information? 25:27.760 --> 25:28.040 Right. 25:28.440 --> 25:28.640 Hmm. 25:29.180 --> 25:32.700 Well, plus the other thing is I'll more than, definitely have SecureShell running on it, 25:33.160 --> 25:37.680 so when it's on, I'll have a SecureShell server that I can actually just use the wireless 25:37.680 --> 25:40.940 to get to from, like, more than likely from my own bedroom, because I park, like, five 25:40.940 --> 25:41.560 feet from my window. 25:43.380 --> 25:45.120 Well, that's, that's convenient. 25:45.120 --> 25:51.240 Um, what about, um, let's see, what about Nopix STD also? 25:51.400 --> 25:56.440 That might be, I think that has a few extra drivers for some wireless cars that might be 25:56.440 --> 26:04.460 helpful, and it comes with, um, comes with, um, what is it called, um, Air Snort. 26:05.160 --> 26:05.780 Ah, okay. 26:05.980 --> 26:08.220 Actually, I think, um, the original Nopix did, too. 26:08.280 --> 26:08.660 Oh, did it? 26:08.660 --> 26:08.960 Okay. 26:09.100 --> 26:09.960 Regular old Nopix. 26:11.340 --> 26:11.660 Um. 26:12.140 --> 26:13.380 I use that every day, actually. 26:13.720 --> 26:15.840 Yeah, and a lot of, a lot of other stuff on the STD. 26:15.940 --> 26:20.420 I, I, I know Bland talked about it and tried it, but I haven't tried the STD distro myself, 26:20.520 --> 26:22.800 but I was, that was going to be the next one I spend some time on. 26:23.820 --> 26:25.420 So, well, good deal. 26:25.580 --> 26:30.620 Um, you know, there's something else that we probably should talk about since you and I 26:30.620 --> 26:34.920 are both on the line, and we both spend our days doing similar things. 26:34.920 --> 26:41.700 Um, since we both, I, I don't know what your official title is, or if you want to bring 26:41.700 --> 26:46.760 that up, but, you know, my official title is Senior Programmer Analyst. 26:47.220 --> 26:52.220 I am a computer programmer for a living, not just, you know, as a fun side thing in the 26:52.220 --> 26:52.700 whole hacking. 26:53.020 --> 26:57.300 That's what I do for a living, and I think you can relate to that pretty well. 26:57.400 --> 26:58.340 Am I correct in that? 26:58.340 --> 27:03.180 Uh, yeah, I've been a programmer for a while now, more or less a, uh, mainframe tape monkey, 27:03.320 --> 27:04.240 but I've been that. 27:04.400 --> 27:06.320 Well, you know, been there, done that. 27:06.460 --> 27:07.420 Uh, backup technician. 27:08.160 --> 27:13.160 Yeah, you know, actually, it's kind of, I guess this is, probably sounds lame to say, 27:13.240 --> 27:14.020 but I'm going to say it anyway. 27:14.160 --> 27:17.300 Everything I say sounds lame to Duel, but, you know, I won't go there. 27:17.720 --> 27:25.940 Um, I started when I was, when I started in college, I actually got a weekend job at a 27:25.940 --> 27:34.860 software company, um, I'm trying to pick my words carefully here, um, working on an AS400 27:34.860 --> 27:43.240 shop, working in an AS400 shop, three AS400 systems, and I had never seen, I had never 27:43.240 --> 27:45.200 ever seen any heavy metal. 27:45.200 --> 27:51.300 I'd never seen anything other than PCs, Macs, you know, standard, fair, standard issue stuff. 27:51.620 --> 27:57.580 When I walked into this company for the first time, and walked back into their computer room, 27:58.300 --> 28:01.320 I was just, I was in heaven. 28:01.520 --> 28:05.200 I was just blown away at the equipment that I saw there. 28:05.200 --> 28:08.160 I was a tape monkey. 28:08.800 --> 28:12.820 That was basically what they hired me to do, was I was a weekend job, where they would 28:12.820 --> 28:17.320 just, I would just have to go back there and run some backups, um, maintain some systems, 28:17.460 --> 28:22.420 operations type stuff, um, and load and unload tapes all night long. 28:23.120 --> 28:28.260 But, while I was there, I used that opportunity to teach myself a lot about the systems, and 28:28.260 --> 28:33.160 from a system I knew nothing about, kind of work my way up into a programming position there. 28:33.160 --> 28:39.420 And then, move on to another company on a real mainframe, because the AS400 is a mid-range 28:39.420 --> 28:46.160 system, move on to a real mainframe, and kind of learn some more, I guess a lot of people 28:46.160 --> 28:50.060 think mainframes don't exist anymore, and that they're, they're gone, and everything's 28:50.060 --> 28:55.100 PC, and yada, yada, yada, but, you and I can attest that that's not the case. 28:56.100 --> 28:56.500 Definitely. 28:56.820 --> 29:00.080 Actually, what's funny, and this was, we didn't discuss this earlier, because it just happened, 29:00.220 --> 29:03.040 actually, um, I'm in the atrium of the building that I work at currently. 29:03.040 --> 29:03.900 While we're recording this. 29:04.860 --> 29:09.060 And, uh, I don't know if you were on the phone line there, Con, that I was, the other night 29:09.060 --> 29:13.960 when I said that we have, uh, Ethernet outlets in the atrium in our cafeteria, for public, 29:14.020 --> 29:15.240 complete public cafeteria. 29:15.540 --> 29:15.860 Right. 29:16.580 --> 29:23.360 Well, some genius just left, oh, about 50 pages of our internal mainframe system's manual 29:23.360 --> 29:24.680 sitting on one of the tables. 29:26.260 --> 29:30.180 Well, why don't we just open the door to the computer room and give them the passwords next 29:30.180 --> 29:30.520 time? 29:30.520 --> 29:32.280 Uh, that works too. 29:32.600 --> 29:38.720 Uh, and I assume, is your, is your, uh, uh, computer room, uh, freezing? 29:39.660 --> 29:40.940 Oh, uh, God, yes. 29:41.020 --> 29:47.380 Uh, we have, we have probably a 5,000 employee campus here, and so our machine room is giant. 29:47.480 --> 29:48.260 I mean, it's massive. 29:48.800 --> 29:50.940 And it's like 60 degrees at all times. 29:50.940 --> 29:54.700 Yeah, and that, again, that's another thing that I had never experienced before. 29:55.340 --> 30:01.440 Uh, I was completely new to the environment, and I walked in, and their computer room had 30:01.440 --> 30:07.000 the electronic, um, you had to punch in a, I think it was a six-digit character to get 30:07.000 --> 30:12.640 in, um, password to get in, and it was freezing. 30:12.640 --> 30:15.720 Actually, I like it colder, so it didn't really bother me too much. 30:15.760 --> 30:18.860 If you're going to spend more than 10 minutes back there, you probably would need a jacket. 30:19.280 --> 30:19.620 That's right. 30:19.700 --> 30:20.260 For hours. 30:20.560 --> 30:24.040 Yeah, most people, most people, if they go back there for one or two minutes, would want 30:24.040 --> 30:26.360 a jacket, but I was kind of comfortable with it. 30:26.360 --> 30:30.900 So, um, only if I had to actually go back there and run something from the main consoles 30:30.900 --> 30:34.940 for some kind of emergency or, or IPL-ing the machine, something like that. 30:35.560 --> 30:38.980 Um, but I'd never been exposed to that kind of environment. 30:39.540 --> 30:44.380 Um, again, I don't, I have no idea what kind of similarities we're going to have here. 30:44.440 --> 30:49.200 We didn't think about this ahead of time, but for mine, my environment, my computer room, 30:49.240 --> 30:54.600 we had three AS400 systems, and these systems, for those of you who have never seen them, 30:54.600 --> 30:58.320 or have only seen them in pictures, let me try to visualize it for you. 30:58.420 --> 31:09.680 There were, each, each AS400 consisted of about, well, of course it varies from installation 31:09.680 --> 31:16.740 to installation, but we had about eight racks, eight actual parts to the AS400, and each 31:16.740 --> 31:21.340 part was like a server rack, if, if any of the listeners have seen what a server rack looks 31:21.340 --> 31:26.580 like, um, if you haven't, think of them, I don't know, as a refrigerator, is that a good 31:26.580 --> 31:27.000 comparison? 31:27.380 --> 31:28.500 I think a vending machine. 31:28.740 --> 31:34.580 A vending, yeah, a vending machine or a refrigerator, each one single unit is about that size, and 31:34.580 --> 31:42.160 think of seven or eight of those, they're all side by side, and that makes up one system 31:42.160 --> 31:43.500 in my particular circumstance. 31:43.500 --> 31:48.860 Now, on the other side, behind me, was another system very similar to that, and then, the 31:48.860 --> 31:54.740 third system, which was like, even bigger, had, I think, twelve, um, units to it, and 31:54.740 --> 32:02.100 basically, it formed kind of a maze, back in this old computer room, and you would, when 32:02.100 --> 32:06.100 you're facing one machine on the far right-hand side, you would basically turn, and you'd be 32:06.100 --> 32:10.220 facing the second machine, and you'd kind of walk through the maze to the other side, and 32:10.220 --> 32:16.020 you'd be facing the third machine, you were basically surrounded by these gigantic, again, 32:16.140 --> 32:22.680 vending machines, whatever you want to describe them, that put off a lot of heat, and in our 32:22.680 --> 32:26.960 particular, when I first started there, um, this was a company that was growing really 32:26.960 --> 32:31.660 quickly, they didn't actually have a professional computer room, for lack of a better term, it 32:31.660 --> 32:38.720 was an old basement that was converted, and there was no raised floors, or anything nice 32:38.720 --> 32:44.280 like that, so all of these systems, with all of the wires, you think wires coming out of 32:44.280 --> 32:49.580 a PC are bad, everybody complains about how many cables and wires, and rightfully so, you 32:49.580 --> 32:55.520 ought to look in the back of one of these big boys sometimes, and normally, in most good 32:55.520 --> 33:00.720 computer rooms, you have raised floors, and you feed the cables and the wires down underneath, 33:00.840 --> 33:05.140 where they're hidden, they keep airflow pushing through there, they keep everything cool, they 33:05.140 --> 33:10.720 have water detection, stuff like that, so that nothing stays damaged, well, we didn't have 33:10.720 --> 33:15.420 that, our machines had the wires coming out of the back, and because there were so many 33:15.420 --> 33:20.980 of them, they were stacked on top of each other, our computer room was like the biggest fire 33:20.980 --> 33:28.260 hazard you could ever imagine, even though it was cool, they had these cables piled on top 33:28.260 --> 33:32.600 of each other behind the machines that were as half as tall as the vending machine itself, 33:32.600 --> 33:38.380 they basically would come up to your knees, a stack of cables, if any of them died or 33:38.380 --> 33:44.780 had a problem, it was god awful trying to find which cable in that jumble of stuff, and 33:44.780 --> 33:48.420 like every once in a while, you got used to it after all, but every once in a while, you 33:48.420 --> 33:53.560 just see sparks and shit flying from some corner somewhere, and it was just kind of accepted 33:53.560 --> 33:59.160 because that was the way it was, so it's, for anyone who's never seen it, it is definitely 33:59.160 --> 34:04.820 a sight to behold, something very much to appreciate, it's not like seeing, you know, 34:04.880 --> 34:08.040 you sit in your house, and you're happy, and you think you've got this powerful computer 34:08.040 --> 34:11.960 room, I've got, I'm sitting here right now recording the show, and I've got one, two, 34:12.080 --> 34:18.340 three, four, five PCs staring at me, and I'm like, wow, that's a lot of computing, no, that's 34:18.340 --> 34:25.660 nothing, when you get to a company, or to a mainframe company, or an AS400 shop, and see 34:25.660 --> 34:31.740 this equipment, it will just stagger your mind, you might not even appreciate it until you 34:31.740 --> 34:36.220 start to play with it, but it's definitely something to be appreciated, do you have a 34:36.220 --> 34:39.920 similar environment that you work in now, or have worked in? 34:40.360 --> 34:44.620 Well, it's similar here, I remember the first time I was brought here, it was almost awe-inspiring, 34:45.140 --> 34:54.300 I mean, we have probably 15 to 20 RS6000s all lined up, we have, I would say, 30 to 40 racks 34:54.300 --> 35:00.120 of rack-mount servers, I mean, we have, we have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of 35:00.120 --> 35:02.980 machines here, it's amazing, I don't know what we do with all of it, I think. 35:03.120 --> 35:04.420 Yeah, oh yeah, there's too much to keep up with. 35:04.420 --> 35:10.540 We're an owner-assimulator, but we're basically an insurance company, so we have a large number 35:10.540 --> 35:13.900 of databases, and we've been around a long time, we have an even larger number of databases, 35:13.900 --> 35:21.840 databases, but yeah, here it's massive, I mean, the tape back, we have one IBM ATL, which 35:21.840 --> 35:25.140 is a giant tape archive, it holds 10,000 tapes. 35:25.580 --> 35:26.920 Now, what kind of tapes? 35:28.220 --> 35:33.440 I believe they're DLT-4s, I don't ever touch it, but I'm pretty sure that's what they are. 35:33.780 --> 35:34.140 Okay. 35:34.820 --> 35:41.640 But it's massive, I mean, it's, you were talking, we're using vending machines as a comparison, 35:41.820 --> 35:47.820 I think the thing is like 15 vending machines long, it's huge, it's got a robotic arm inside 35:47.820 --> 35:52.860 of it that moves the tapes on its own, I mean, that alone just makes me kind of go, wow. 35:53.200 --> 35:59.860 Right, oh yeah, it's, yeah, I've seen those, we don't have one of those actually, well, we 35:59.860 --> 36:00.800 didn't at that company. 36:00.800 --> 36:04.720 The company that I worked at, like I said, they were growing, and that was when I first 36:04.720 --> 36:05.360 started with them. 36:05.440 --> 36:10.900 Now, later on, like I said, I proved myself, got a programming position, and we moved to 36:10.900 --> 36:16.780 a new building, and they built a very nice computer center that was pretty much the nicest 36:16.780 --> 36:21.420 in the state, people would come by and give tours, IBM would come by and show people, it 36:21.420 --> 36:25.840 was like a demo model of how to make a computer room, so we went from the rock bottom with sparks 36:25.840 --> 36:28.560 flying from everything to this new computer room. 36:28.560 --> 36:31.060 Didn't you have a Halon story, I believe? 36:31.200 --> 36:32.480 Oh, God. 36:33.160 --> 36:34.800 Did I already tell you the Halon story? 36:35.240 --> 36:36.140 I think so. 36:36.260 --> 36:37.100 Did I tell you the Halon? 36:37.620 --> 36:43.880 Oh, God, man, you're going to, this is going to be so embarrassing, but this is the funniest 36:43.880 --> 36:52.220 story that I've ever, ever, unfortunately I'm the butt of the joke, but imagine yourself, 36:52.220 --> 36:57.120 again, this was all new to me, I had never even seen or been in, it's very intimidating, 36:57.320 --> 36:59.040 awe-inspiring to be in this situation. 36:59.840 --> 37:07.580 Well, my job was on third shift, and, you know, that's awfully late. 37:07.580 --> 37:14.240 So, I wasn't always in the best state of mind sometimes, I would be in there and be, you 37:14.240 --> 37:19.560 know, half passed out, dazed, dozing, you know, falling asleep, nodding my head. 37:20.620 --> 37:28.240 Well, because of the situation with the computer room, and because of the data and the machines 37:28.240 --> 37:36.660 being so incredibly valuable, there is a, I guess, fire control system, a safety system 37:36.660 --> 37:46.220 in place in case of emergencies, in case one of those sparks gets out of hand, and it is 37:46.220 --> 37:51.240 a Halon-based system, which I don't think they even do those anymore, I think they've 37:51.240 --> 37:55.800 gone into something else now, but I'm not sure about that, but this was, when you first 37:55.800 --> 37:59.860 walk in the computer room, there was a sign on the front door that says, warning, deadly 37:59.860 --> 38:00.560 Halon. 38:01.200 --> 38:07.960 So, like, here I am, this total newbie, walking in for, like, training on the job for the first 38:07.960 --> 38:12.800 day, the first thing I see is, A, that you have to use a combination to get into the room, 38:13.380 --> 38:16.600 and B, this big sign that says, deadly Halon, warning. 38:18.040 --> 38:24.140 Once you get inside, they have these two big tanks, they look like a jet pack or something 38:24.140 --> 38:32.160 over on the side, and they have tubes running from them, to, through the ceiling, to different 38:32.160 --> 38:38.720 parts of the room, and the tanks, of course, have the big, uh, uh, do not touch symbol, danger, 38:38.920 --> 38:43.600 warning, blah, blah, blah, and there's deadly Halon signs on each one of the walls. 38:43.600 --> 38:49.180 Very, very intimidating, especially since I didn't know the first friggin' thing about 38:49.180 --> 38:54.280 Halon, or what it, so they tell, you know, I asked about it, I'm no dummy, I asked about 38:54.280 --> 38:58.660 it, and check what's up with that, and they said, you know, if there's a fire, if something 38:58.660 --> 39:04.180 happens, the tanks will kick in, the, well, the sensors will go off, the tanks will kick 39:04.180 --> 39:10.700 in, and you have, I think it was 20 seconds, it was 10 or 20 seconds before the Halon would 39:10.700 --> 39:16.940 come into the room. Well, this room was, you know, a big bedroom, I guess, if you want 39:16.940 --> 39:21.760 to think of it, like, uh, uh, say two bedrooms put together about the size, you could easily 39:21.760 --> 39:27.160 get out of it in a second or two. But when you're in a certain situation, you don't really 39:27.160 --> 39:33.380 think clearly, especially when you're half asleep. So the story goes like this, I'm in 39:33.380 --> 39:39.680 there one night, I'm working, I'm half asleep, I got the lights out, I'm kind of dozing, and 39:39.680 --> 39:46.980 with the tapes that we used to use at the time were 3490 cartridges, and you'd load about 39:46.980 --> 39:53.380 six or seven of them at a time, and, um, basically that would run for an hour before you'd have 39:53.380 --> 39:58.600 to reload six or seven more tapes. So I was in the middle of one of these tape changes. 39:58.980 --> 40:06.240 I go back there to one of the three machines, I'd unload the tapes, um, there were two tape 40:06.240 --> 40:11.620 drives next to each other, one for each machine. So I go in, I have six tapes in my left hand, 40:11.940 --> 40:16.000 balancing them against my chest. I have six tapes in my right hand, balancing them against 40:16.000 --> 40:26.140 my chest. All of a sudden, I hear sirens go off in the room. I am here to tell you that 40:26.140 --> 40:34.180 self-preservation is alive and well inside of Stank Dog. These sirens went off, and they were 40:34.180 --> 40:42.740 ear-piercing. I didn't know what they were. I didn't care what they were. All I know is that 40:42.740 --> 40:51.440 before those 12 tapes hit the ground, I was out the back door, full, dead-on run, and the only thing 40:51.440 --> 41:01.360 in my feeble mind was, deadly halon, deadly halon. I ran out the back door like OJ fucking 41:01.360 --> 41:09.260 Simpson. I hit that door like, uh, uh, Eric Dickerson with a shoulder. I spun off the door, 41:09.420 --> 41:16.020 flew right out. I never hesitated, didn't miss a step. Fuck the tapes. Fuck the AS400s. Fuck the 41:16.020 --> 41:22.220 building. I ain't going out like that. I am not gonna die like a punk. I hit that door, 41:22.320 --> 41:27.700 and that place could burn to the ground for all I care. I ran out the back door to the 41:27.700 --> 41:33.980 computer room, the emergency door. I run out. We had two buildings next to each other. I run 41:33.980 --> 41:38.380 full blast to the next building, punch in the combination, because again, this is the 41:38.380 --> 41:43.860 middle of the night. Everything is locked up. I run to the building next door. I call the 41:43.860 --> 41:48.360 manager. I call my manager, who again, I'd only been to this, you know, maybe this was 41:48.360 --> 41:54.420 within a month this happened, so I was still a complete newbie. I go in. I had run between 41:54.420 --> 42:00.940 buildings, fully out of breath, scared shitless, half asleep. I get on the phone. I call my 42:00.940 --> 42:05.940 manager at home. It's about 3.30, 4 o'clock in the morning. I'm out of breath on the phone 42:05.940 --> 42:11.000 with this guy, and I'm going, computer room. There's a fire. Everything. Deadly halon. 42:11.220 --> 42:19.380 Deadly halon. Completely in panic mode. It was, I would give any, any amount of money in the 42:19.380 --> 42:26.380 world to have jumped out of my body and watched myself in full panic mode. I think it's the 42:26.380 --> 42:33.360 only time in my life that I've ever been completely, oh my God, I'm gonna die. I was so scared and 42:33.360 --> 42:39.460 so blown away by that incident that, I mean, it traumatized me, dude. I'm still to this 42:39.460 --> 42:45.280 day traumatized. That is the deadly halon incident. That's the deadly halon story I mentioned 42:45.280 --> 42:46.080 to you that time. 42:46.660 --> 42:51.260 I think you saw, I remember my post about my traumatizing incident when all the lights 42:51.260 --> 42:55.500 and the power and the entire floor went off. I'm just sitting in this dark room with this 42:55.500 --> 42:59.880 hum and all these little LEDs staring at me. It was the most bizarre feeling. 42:59.880 --> 43:03.980 Yeah. It's like, uh, open the pod bay doors, Hal. It's like the computer took over. 43:04.460 --> 43:04.900 Exactly. 43:05.000 --> 43:10.420 Yeah, the same thing. It, what it turned out to be was the, it was just the general fire 43:10.420 --> 43:16.180 alarm for the building. It wasn't anything to do with the halon sensors. Of course, I 43:16.180 --> 43:23.160 don't, I wasn't thinking about that. I was thinking about getting my ass out. So I call 43:23.160 --> 43:28.740 him up. I'm completely in panic mode. He basically says, oh, oh, that's just the fire 43:28.740 --> 43:32.700 alarm for the building. Don't worry about it. It goes off all the time. What do you 43:32.700 --> 43:37.320 mean it goes off all the time? Why didn't you tell me? I'm fucking about to piss myself 43:37.320 --> 43:41.020 running from this shit. And you're going to tell me, oh, just go in and punch in this 43:41.020 --> 43:46.860 code and it goes off. So I go in, I punch the code. Sure enough, it goes off. I go back 43:46.860 --> 43:51.000 down to the computer room. I'm still, even though I turned it off, even though I'm still 43:51.000 --> 43:55.480 scared shitless. I punch the code in the door. I open the door and jump back like Halon's 43:55.480 --> 43:59.160 going to come rolling out. I don't know what Halon looks like. I don't know what Halon 43:59.160 --> 44:05.000 smells like. I didn't know what the hell to expect. So I pull the door open and jump 44:05.000 --> 44:11.060 back. Everything seemed okay. I peer my head in. Everything was fine. There's 12 tapes laying 44:11.060 --> 44:15.680 scattered on the floor, which I had not labeled yet. So they're all out of order. So I screwed 44:15.680 --> 44:23.860 up the whole backup and had to start over, which sucked. But the moral of the story is I actually 44:23.860 --> 44:32.600 was proud to know that self-preservation works. And then you could run a sub 4 second 40, huh? 44:32.600 --> 44:39.600 Oh God, I swear. I don't know how in the world I got out of there so fast. I, I hit that door 44:39.600 --> 44:47.020 with my shoulder and spun. I was so, I was like, forget it, dude. I just, I ain't going out like that. 44:47.220 --> 44:52.500 I am not going out. No weekend, midnight, third shift. You know, I'm not going to be a, a, 44:52.500 --> 45:01.140 in the paper deadly Halon victim. Uh-uh. That's not, that's not for me. Oh God. I'm actually in 45:01.140 --> 45:07.100 tears right now from telling that. I, that was the funniest thing. I, I wish somebody would have 45:07.100 --> 45:12.580 had a video camera taping me. I wish somehow I could see myself because I know how I felt. 45:12.940 --> 45:19.420 I know I must've looked like I have no idea what I must've, it is 4 30 in the morning. I'm running 45:19.420 --> 45:24.480 out the back door of this building at full run in full panic mode with alarms going on 45:24.480 --> 45:28.960 around me. It has to be the most comedic scene. It would make a great scene in a movie. I'm 45:28.960 --> 45:34.020 sure. You know what that's called? Movie initiation. Well, you know, and I got, and you know what? 45:34.020 --> 45:39.640 I went back in there. I went back down and did my job, spent the rest of the, the, uh, the 45:39.640 --> 45:45.900 shift. And yes, I got a lot of cracks from the guys about it. I'm like, Hey man, y'all got to 45:45.900 --> 45:51.820 tell me this kind of stuff. So that's the thing. Now, like I said, I don't think they 45:51.820 --> 45:56.080 use Halon much anymore in these places. Um, when we went to the new building, we got a 45:56.080 --> 46:01.620 nice computer room, like I said earlier with raised floors, uh, water sensing, temperature 46:01.620 --> 46:06.180 monitoring, this huge equipment that made me, there was no sparks flying out. It was the, 46:06.280 --> 46:11.440 it was a combination of all those bad things that made me panic, you know? So when we got 46:11.440 --> 46:15.640 in the new computer room, I was much more comfortable. We had a tape library with racks 46:15.640 --> 46:20.360 that you could go up and down. It was just a beautiful, very, very nice place. But yeah, 46:20.360 --> 46:24.880 that, that whole Halon incident is just the, probably the low point of my life. 46:25.420 --> 46:29.480 You get a kick out of this. Not only do we still have an active Halon system, but we have, 46:29.740 --> 46:34.840 you mentioned the 3490s. Those are our high tech mainframe backup units. We even have 3420s. 46:34.900 --> 46:39.940 The real, the big, like movie projector type backup systems. Yeah. 46:39.940 --> 46:47.160 Hmm. Well, actually out of our three machines, two of them were on 3490Es and one of them was 46:47.160 --> 46:53.940 still on the old 6250 reel to reel tapes. That's what our 3420s are. Yeah. So I go, I would, 46:54.180 --> 46:58.760 we had these big, um, they, I call them magician trunks. Like they put the magicians, put all 46:58.760 --> 47:03.380 their props in these big heavy duty trunks and it would fill up three of those. I think there 47:03.380 --> 47:12.020 was, I think there was 30 or 40 to a trunk of the 6250 tapes. And we used three trunks full to back 47:12.020 --> 47:19.000 up the one machine. And then the 3490s, we would use about 25 or 30 on each of the other two machines. 47:19.400 --> 47:24.220 Now, later on, we got rid of the 6250 finally and replaced it with an eight millimeter drive. And we 47:24.220 --> 47:30.400 were backing it up to two eight millimeters. What used to be three giant trunks of tapes were brought 47:30.400 --> 47:36.800 down to a two eight millimeter tapes. So huge, huge technology. Now it was still slow. It still 47:36.800 --> 47:43.340 took at, uh, it took even longer on the eight millimeters, frankly. But, um, that's something 47:43.340 --> 47:47.540 else that a lot of people might not appreciate or know if you've never loaded a reel to reel 47:47.540 --> 47:53.400 tape before and seen a reel to reel tape drive. It's you get some appreciation for where we've 47:53.400 --> 47:57.600 come from, where the computer industry started and came from and where we are now. I mean, 47:57.600 --> 48:02.720 it's not all about diskettes. There's a lot of other stuff out there that people have 48:02.720 --> 48:07.100 never even seen and thought of or heard of. And it's still there. And it's still in use 48:07.100 --> 48:12.100 today. Like you just said, I would now you got me wanting to come visit now. I want to 48:12.100 --> 48:17.600 come see your setup, man. I'll bring, I'll, I'll come in with a doctor's mask to protect 48:17.600 --> 48:25.980 me from the halon. I was going to try to take pictures one night. Oh man. Oh God. I'm, I 48:25.980 --> 48:30.640 probably, maybe that's why I have trouble sleeping today. Maybe I'm traumatized. I have, uh, some 48:30.640 --> 48:37.360 kind of deep psychological problem because of the halon incident. I could do it. Oh man. 48:37.360 --> 48:46.820 That was good. But, um, back on the topic of, of our jobs and what we do. I mean, there's 48:46.820 --> 48:52.780 an occasional story like that, but for the most part I spent eight hour shifts, seven and 48:52.780 --> 48:57.340 a half, seven hours and 45 minutes were sitting in front of a terminal and the other 15 were 48:57.340 --> 49:03.620 loading tapes, you know, back then. Now, now that I'm an actual programmer for a living, I'm 49:03.620 --> 49:09.000 in front of the screen eight hours a day. And I think you told me earlier, you're pretty 49:09.000 --> 49:13.340 much like that too. Correct. Right. Where I'm at, I'm actually 12 hours shift. So it's 49:13.340 --> 49:18.900 even worse. Oh man. So anybody listening, I know a lot of people ask me sometimes about, 49:19.080 --> 49:23.460 you know, how do you get into programming and what should I study and, and what books and 49:23.460 --> 49:29.520 you know what, more importantly, let's address the topic of what it means to be a programmer, 49:29.520 --> 49:37.140 a professional programmer for a living. You are going to be spending eight or 12 hour shifts 49:37.140 --> 49:42.900 sitting in front of a terminal. It's a very, very big difference than sitting down and writing 49:42.900 --> 49:48.920 a Pearl program in a half an hour. You know, programming you might think is fun and I still 49:48.920 --> 49:54.560 think it's fun. It's, but what my point is, it's very much an acquired thing. It's only for 49:54.560 --> 50:01.780 certain people. If you like to program, that's one thing, but think about whether or not you 50:01.780 --> 50:10.600 want to commit to spending eight hours nonstop programming. I do. I love it. I absolutely 50:10.600 --> 50:18.840 love programming. I can do it for 24 hours a day and have before, you know, but some people, 50:19.160 --> 50:23.380 if you think you're going to program for a couple hours a day and then spend the rest of the day 50:23.380 --> 50:28.600 getting coffee and surfing the web, you're going to be programming nonstop. So make sure 50:28.600 --> 50:33.580 you understand that going in that it, you know, most people say, Oh my God, you have 50:33.580 --> 50:39.060 the most boring job in the world. Well, yeah, to most people, it is the most boring job in 50:39.060 --> 50:44.320 the world. I guess, you know, some ways it is, but I love it. And unless you have that mindset 50:44.320 --> 50:52.760 of wanting and knowing and just feeling the accomplishments of getting programs completed 50:52.760 --> 50:58.500 and debugging and pushing through obstacles and figuring things out, unless you're comfortable 50:58.500 --> 51:05.420 doing that all day, it might, you know, just keep that in mind before you go deciding whether 51:05.420 --> 51:10.080 you want to, you know, become a professional programmer. You might be, you know, admin job might 51:10.080 --> 51:18.400 be more up your alley or operations, things like that. Um, do you see sometimes you're 51:18.400 --> 51:25.400 also, I've known programmers who had to sit and monitor systems. They didn't actually even 51:25.400 --> 51:31.800 get to do programming. Their job was to sit there in case something screwed up in case 51:31.800 --> 51:37.000 a program halted in case something went down and they had to fix it. And the only programming 51:37.000 --> 51:41.440 they would do was reactive programming to fix something that had happened earlier. 51:42.520 --> 51:46.220 There seems to be a lot of what we do. We have, I think you wrote an article actually 51:46.220 --> 51:49.460 on JCL and that's one of our functions here. 51:49.760 --> 51:56.100 Oh yeah. I actually, and most people have never even seen JCL unless they, well, obviously unless 51:56.100 --> 52:00.000 they've worked on some kind of heavy metal systems, unless they worked on a mainframe, they're 52:00.000 --> 52:04.860 not going to know even what JCL is. I don't even know how to describe it to someone. How 52:04.860 --> 52:08.520 would you define or describe JCL to someone who has, you know? 52:08.520 --> 52:08.920 A nightmare? 52:09.380 --> 52:15.200 Well, I, I don't know. 52:15.760 --> 52:20.600 Yeah, it's a, it's a different animal. It's, it is, JCL of course stands for job control language 52:20.600 --> 52:30.080 and it is the interface between your program and the system. It is a way that you can tell, 52:30.080 --> 52:36.560 you can write a program that says, read this file, process this data and make this file. 52:37.100 --> 52:42.260 Well, your program can say, okay, file in and file out. That's what you name them. But 52:42.260 --> 52:47.580 the system doesn't know where the hell file in and file out is. So that's what JCL steps 52:47.580 --> 52:54.300 in and it points and connects things to the system as well as some security, some authority 52:54.300 --> 53:03.700 issues, um, job control of the job flow and scheduling and, um, disaster recovery, error 53:03.700 --> 53:09.020 recovery from the steps of the job. Um, and actual, you can actually do some logic and programming 53:09.020 --> 53:15.780 within the JCL. If the first start part of this program doesn't work, run this, stuff like 53:15.780 --> 53:22.040 that. So basically it's, it's an interface between the program and the system itself. Is that 53:22.040 --> 53:28.800 a good, did I cover it pretty? I still think nightmare is a good term for it. Yeah. In 53:28.800 --> 53:34.220 other words, the short version is nightmare. Yeah, it absolutely is. Um, I think you hit 53:34.220 --> 53:38.960 on one really good thing, um, and it's about being especially professional. Hey, that's one 53:38.960 --> 53:43.300 more than usual. Go ahead. Even though I'm not doing it now, that's what I've been doing 53:43.300 --> 53:48.400 for the last three years or so. And the, the two biggest themes, um, about being a programmer, 53:48.400 --> 53:54.040 one is not necessarily pure respect, but coworker respect. Um, you are everyone's bitch for 53:54.040 --> 53:58.300 the most part. I mean, that's the easiest way to describe it. Yeah, frankly, yes. Um, 53:58.300 --> 54:02.880 I mean, the VPs bitch about something which gets bitched to someone else below them and 54:02.880 --> 54:08.080 it all comes back to you. This doesn't work. Yeah, shit rolls downhill. Another one of your 54:08.080 --> 54:14.340 great things. There you go. Um, but the other, the other definite thing is, I mean, I've, it's 54:14.340 --> 54:20.580 almost like, unless you have a true, just absolutely love for programming, it, it almost kills your 54:20.580 --> 54:25.480 desire for computing at all. I mean, I've got tons of coworkers before who, you know, 54:25.500 --> 54:29.220 would code all day long and they would go home and they would loathe the idea of even touching 54:29.220 --> 54:30.420 a computer. Right. 54:31.640 --> 54:36.380 So, I mean, those are just two major things. And also, if you're a programmer and anyone 54:36.380 --> 54:40.480 who doesn't know anything about computers knows you're a programmer, the first thing they 54:40.480 --> 54:45.720 ask you, hey, can you fix my computer? Yes, and Wintermute has a shirt that he loves that 54:45.720 --> 54:51.340 says, no, I will not fix your computer. You know, I tell, I tell Duel a lot of these stories 54:51.340 --> 54:58.240 of complaining about, you know, that situation at my job too, lack of respect. And, and it's 54:58.240 --> 55:06.380 from my peers as well. Um, from the VPs and from people who aren't IT people, that I can 55:06.380 --> 55:09.960 take pretty well because it comes with the territory. They don't understand the, 55:09.960 --> 55:17.440 see, like, like our listeners right now, they may not have experienced the mainframe environment 55:17.440 --> 55:21.460 and some of the things we're talking about, but at least I think they understand it and 55:21.460 --> 55:27.000 they can respect and appreciate what goes into it and what all it entails. Um, most, 55:27.200 --> 55:35.180 most of the people, most non-technical people that you're going to work with, like you said, 55:35.260 --> 55:39.420 VPs and, and stuff like that are going to come down on you and they don't understand 55:39.420 --> 55:46.460 what all you do and how, how much knowledge you have and how you can handle things and 55:46.460 --> 55:51.120 there's, there's not much appreciation and respect. Duel gets a lot of my grief where I 55:51.120 --> 55:56.540 complain about, oh, they don't appreciate this and they don't respect that. But, um, it's 55:56.540 --> 56:04.420 definitely a reality, again, to keep in mind, even though as a programmer, sometimes you 56:04.420 --> 56:11.680 will get little or no respect. And also one of the biggest fears that is the first time 56:11.680 --> 56:15.980 it happened, and if you become a programmer, you'll know this one day, aside from the deadly 56:15.980 --> 56:21.420 halon, um, are these things, wonderful things called code reviews. I remember my first one, 56:21.460 --> 56:25.840 it was the most terrifying thing I've ever had to go through. I mean, you just couldn't 56:25.840 --> 56:30.720 imagine how bad it was. Hmm. Well, actually, I, I have no idea what you mean by a code 56:30.720 --> 56:35.700 review. I'll be honest. They, we don't have that much organization. Well, basically a code 56:35.700 --> 56:42.520 review is the programmers and the development team sitting down with the, the VPs, the heads 56:42.520 --> 56:45.800 of the company to find out, you know, exactly where you are on the project and things like 56:45.800 --> 56:51.060 that. And unfortunately, on the last project I was on, I was a lead developer. So most all the 56:51.060 --> 56:59.860 questions came to me. Right. Which is just terrifying. Yeah. I mean, I, um, we don't have 56:59.860 --> 57:03.940 a term like that, but of course you have to go through that process as part of a project 57:03.940 --> 57:14.520 implementation. Um, for the most part, we just have meetings every so often. Um, I know 57:14.520 --> 57:19.500 the information that I need, so I take charge and lead and say, okay, we need to do this, 57:19.500 --> 57:22.840 we need to do that. I'm putting you on this. I need you to work on that. You need to get 57:22.840 --> 57:30.100 this information to me. And, um, that's really, it can be, if someone knows what they're doing 57:30.100 --> 57:35.300 and can take charge of it, it's not so bad. But when you got VPs, like you said, in there 57:35.300 --> 57:40.380 and people, directors of a department who are completely unqualified for their positions 57:40.380 --> 57:45.660 or don't know what they're talking about, come in the, it's a frustrating feeling when, 57:45.660 --> 57:50.400 and this is something I have to deal with on a daily basis. It's a very frustrating 57:50.400 --> 57:57.640 feeling when you know the way something should be done, the right way to do it. You know that 57:57.640 --> 58:04.840 this is the most efficient, cheapest, most reasonable, most secure, most efficient, cleanest, 58:04.960 --> 58:13.640 easiest way to do something. But your project manager or somebody says, no, no, no, I'm going 58:13.640 --> 58:18.240 to do it this way. It's the most frustrating feeling in the world. And that happens to 58:18.240 --> 58:23.060 me regularly. I don't know about you. Happens to me regularly. And that's something else to 58:23.060 --> 58:27.680 keep in mind as a programmer. You, like you said earlier, I mean, that's, you are everybody's 58:27.680 --> 58:33.820 bitch. You know, if you are a manager or director where you have some decision making control in 58:33.820 --> 58:40.460 it, that's great. But if you're just a programmer, then you are going to have to do what you're 58:40.460 --> 58:45.480 told. And sometimes you don't agree with it and you have to make the decision of whether 58:45.480 --> 58:49.380 you want to go through with it, whether you want to do it the right way, how you're going 58:49.380 --> 58:54.620 to handle and react to that situation. It is a very stressful job. I mean, that's, that's 58:54.620 --> 58:59.140 definitely a true statement. I would say, would you agree with that? Oh, definitely. It's very, 58:59.280 --> 59:04.300 very stressful job. It's not sitting back like they show you in the movies. It's not kicking 59:04.300 --> 59:12.240 back with your feet up in the laptop and your lap and, uh, um, you know, eating a can of 59:12.240 --> 59:20.000 Pringles and it's, it's not all fun and games. It's a very, very stressful job. And you have 59:20.000 --> 59:23.700 deadlines and you have people breathing down your back and you're trying to do something 59:23.700 --> 59:29.020 and write code the wrong way because someone told you to do it that way, even though you 59:29.020 --> 59:34.920 know it's not the best way or it's a downright wrong way to do something. It's, it's definitely 59:34.920 --> 59:44.060 a stressful job and you know, it all comes back to non-IT related. Just in general, I, gosh, 59:44.600 --> 59:49.640 I sometimes hate saying this because it comes across as very, um, arrogant in a weird sort 59:49.640 --> 59:55.620 of way, but it's, it's all about dealing with the normals. People don't understand, not only 59:55.620 --> 01:00:01.620 hackers, but just people who are different, people who are smarter, people who have different 01:00:01.620 --> 01:00:07.620 experience and knowledge. It's hard for us to deal with people who don't have that same 01:00:07.620 --> 01:00:12.020 knowledge. That's why we have such a close knit community, a close bonded community, hacking 01:00:12.020 --> 01:00:17.040 community is because we can have mutual respect for each other and appreciation for each other. 01:00:17.460 --> 01:00:24.520 And it's something that the normals can't do. I don't care if somebody has a, uh, vice president 01:00:24.520 --> 01:00:29.420 position or a director of a department just because they have a master's degree or a doctor's 01:00:29.420 --> 01:00:34.440 degree. I've met some pretty fucking stupid doctors in my life. All that means is they 01:00:34.440 --> 01:00:39.940 could afford to go to college longer than me. That's all that means to me. So it's frustrating 01:00:39.940 --> 01:00:44.060 when you're in a situation like that, but that's something else to be prepared for. You know, 01:00:44.140 --> 01:00:47.680 we had a lot of news topics to cover and there's no way we're going to get to them. You know 01:00:47.680 --> 01:00:48.120 that, right? 01:00:48.120 --> 01:00:49.820 Yeah, we think about business. 01:00:50.020 --> 01:00:55.020 We, we ranted, we went on. Hopefully, I think this actually might've been very enlightening 01:00:55.020 --> 01:01:00.440 for people who didn't already know. Um, a lot of people are like us and that we live 01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:04.840 in it every day. So maybe they'll, maybe we'll get some emails going, you know, preach on brother 01:01:04.840 --> 01:01:10.280 that, you know, fight the fight. They can understand and relate to it. But, um, for some of you 01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:15.160 guys out there in high school and college that haven't experienced this yet, keep it in mind. 01:01:15.160 --> 01:01:18.680 I don't want to chase you away from being a programmer. I don't want to scare you. I don't 01:01:18.680 --> 01:01:24.880 want to put anybody away. I just want to educate you on what it entails. Just be prepared to know 01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:29.580 what you're in for because, and don't be afraid, you know, sometimes you're going to be in a position 01:01:29.580 --> 01:01:34.900 where, like I said, you're forced to do something that someone tells you to do and you might not 01:01:34.900 --> 01:01:40.780 agree with it. You can't be afraid to move and leave and go somewhere else and, and, you know, 01:01:40.780 --> 01:01:47.040 do what's right for you. And I find myself in that situation right now comes a point where 01:01:47.040 --> 01:01:53.280 you need to move on. You need to, you know, look out for number one to help, to, to move 01:01:53.280 --> 01:01:58.600 on with your life and do what's best for you. So, um, if you're wanting, if you're a person 01:01:58.600 --> 01:02:02.420 who's lived in the same place their whole life and your grandparents and your great grandparents, 01:02:02.420 --> 01:02:08.420 um, programmers might be doing some traveling from place to place too. It's not really a, 01:02:08.420 --> 01:02:13.700 uh, otherwise it can be a dead end job if you're not willing to move around and move 01:02:13.700 --> 01:02:19.280 up in the world. Uh, well, I hope that wasn't too depressing there, was it? 01:02:19.820 --> 01:02:25.300 Well, I mean, on a lighter note, I mean, it's, there are some fun things. It's not all bad. 01:02:25.740 --> 01:02:30.660 And actually you're, uh, sitting down with a laptop and a can of Pringles actually reminded 01:02:30.660 --> 01:02:35.480 me, uh, one time there was two weeks that, uh, my boss said I could go white coat on the 01:02:35.480 --> 01:02:41.360 roof. So that's what I did. Wow. Computer nerd with a tan. Wow. See, now see, we have 01:02:41.360 --> 01:02:46.120 wireless all over campus that I could use. I could, I could do my job from home. I could 01:02:46.120 --> 01:02:50.020 do my job from sitting out in the park in the middle of the, I could do it from the middle 01:02:50.020 --> 01:02:55.660 of the cafeteria. I can do my job from anywhere, but they won't hear of it. Oh no, you must be 01:02:55.660 --> 01:03:00.640 in there chained to the desk. Ah, anyway. You know, we're going to have to wrap this 01:03:00.640 --> 01:03:07.560 up. Um, we're going to have to bump a couple of these things, um, to next week. Um, let 01:03:07.560 --> 01:03:11.740 me see if there's anything I really want to touch on though. Um, yeah, most of this can 01:03:11.740 --> 01:03:16.660 be bumped back. Most of this can be moved back. Um, actually I will mention that Microsoft's 01:03:17.220 --> 01:03:21.540 new operating system, Longhorn, has been bumped back again. It was originally supposed to come 01:03:21.540 --> 01:03:27.820 out for 2004, bumped to 2005. It's been bumped again. Looks like it's going to be 2006 before 01:03:27.820 --> 01:03:32.440 it comes out. Um, so that was announced. I will make sure in case anybody didn't hear 01:03:32.440 --> 01:03:37.540 that. Um, it's a good thing because, you know, that gives us another year or two to 01:03:37.540 --> 01:03:43.020 push Linux. It's gaining a foothold. It's reaching out. It's, it's becoming, uh, more and more 01:03:43.020 --> 01:03:46.800 standard, more and more accepted. So the more they push back Longhorn, the more Microsoft 01:03:46.800 --> 01:03:51.960 pushes back anything, the better it is for us. So, and actually there's a little conspiracy 01:03:51.960 --> 01:03:56.240 theory that goes along with that we'll talk about next week as well. Um, I guess that's, 01:03:56.240 --> 01:04:00.580 that's going to have to be it. Um, I, let's see, I have closing music tonight is going to 01:04:00.580 --> 01:04:05.000 be from Auditory again. It's called Blowing Up Your Speakers. Um, shout outs. Do you have 01:04:05.000 --> 01:04:06.080 any shout outs you want to give? 01:04:06.600 --> 01:04:11.620 Uh, just the guys on the DVD boards, uh, people showing up for the IRC lecture sticks, um, bizarre. 01:04:11.920 --> 01:04:16.520 Just definitely fiend for helping to log this the first time. That's pretty much it. 01:04:16.520 --> 01:04:17.580 I forgot anybody. Sorry. 01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:21.860 Yeah. He put a lot of, you know, he and, and Gluco, a lot of those guys put in some 01:04:21.860 --> 01:04:26.140 time setting those channels up and getting some stuff organized. So definitely shouts 01:04:26.140 --> 01:04:30.760 out to them. And again, to Decoder, hopefully we can do these conferences, get them going 01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:35.840 more often, more regularly. And, um, yeah, I guess we're going to have to end it. Uh, as 01:04:35.840 --> 01:04:40.860 usual, you can email us at letters at binrev.com. If you can relate to these experiences, if 01:04:40.860 --> 01:04:45.800 you want to add to, um, what we described, if we missed something, if you want to make fun 01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:52.040 of me for the Halon incident, uh, or, or convey your, uh, your newbie initiation story, by 01:04:52.040 --> 01:04:56.640 all means, letters at binrev.com. And I think that's going to do it. So Voodoo 01:04:56.640 --> 01:05:01.580 Howell, thank you very much for being on here. And I think, I hope you know how we end the 01:05:01.580 --> 01:05:05.580 show every week. We will see you guys next week. Same hack time. 01:05:05.580 --> 01:05:06.920 See you next channel. 01:05:06.920 --> 01:05:07.880 Have a great week. 01:05:08.220 --> 01:05:08.760 Bye. 01:05:08.760 --> 01:05:08.980 Bye. 01:05:09.320 --> 01:05:09.780 Bye. 01:05:09.860 --> 01:05:10.320 Bye. 01:05:10.680 --> 01:05:10.780 Bye. 01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:11.580 Bye. 01:05:12.300 --> 01:05:13.660 Bye. 01:05:13.760 --> 01:05:14.760 Bye. 01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:19.100 Bye. 01:05:19.100 --> 01:05:19.760 Bye. 01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:19.800 Bye. 01:05:21.900 --> 01:05:23.760 Bye. 01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:53.740 Thank you. 01:05:53.760 --> 01:06:23.740 Thank you. 01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:53.740 Thank you. 01:06:53.760 --> 01:07:23.740 Thank you. 01:07:23.760 --> 01:07:53.740 Thank you. 01:07:53.760 --> 01:08:23.740 Thank you. 01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:53.740 Thank you. 01:08:53.760 --> 01:09:23.740 Thank you.