WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:10.480 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:10.920 --> 00:16.340 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million game pegs 00:16.340 --> 00:21.540 of you in a fag pose, in your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the 00:21.540 --> 00:27.500 net in my six foe, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable, 00:27.500 --> 00:33.020 on the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm 00:33.020 --> 00:38.300 a hero, in a flash, I'll screw you on burning dream caps, you need some ISOs, let me through 00:38.300 --> 00:43.720 my hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, and a digital hug, you just caught 00:43.720 --> 00:49.980 the love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, your CG, it's 00:49.980 --> 00:54.520 all gonna be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattling 00:54.520 --> 00:59.200 your bones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ, leave you flat on your 00:59.200 --> 01:04.540 back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:05.000 --> 01:12.220 This is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, 01:12.220 --> 01:15.240 SIFs, this is dedicated to the hackers and the crack. 01:15.620 --> 01:22.320 Welcome ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to Binary Revolution Radio episode 12, I am 01:22.320 --> 01:28.980 Stank Dog with you once again, and I am joined this week by another special guest, not actually 01:28.980 --> 01:34.280 all of our guests are special guests, but we have an extra special new guest today, the 01:34.280 --> 01:37.460 star, can I call you the star of Hack TV, is that okay? 01:38.060 --> 01:38.760 That's fine with me. 01:38.860 --> 01:44.100 The star of Hack TV, the producer of Hack TV, the editor of Hack TV, you know what, it's 01:44.100 --> 01:50.460 pretty much your job now, you are in charge of Hack TV everybody, this is Saito187 in the 01:50.460 --> 01:58.940 house, so we have been working, well, kinda sorta trying to work on Hack TV for a long time 01:58.940 --> 02:05.200 now, and we're getting there, we have the pilot out, everybody saw, which was very very good 02:05.200 --> 02:08.800 work by the way, I have to give you credit for that, a little applause for that, even 02:08.800 --> 02:12.640 though we had to work with a little bit of real media, we had to work with a little bit 02:12.640 --> 02:18.540 of Windows encoding, we had to work with a pretty desperate, a pretty good mix of different 02:18.540 --> 02:24.080 formats, so I know that was tough, so it came out very good, I thought, and hilarious. 02:24.840 --> 02:25.980 I appreciate the kind words. 02:26.180 --> 02:30.820 Yeah, so hopefully we will keep that going when we come out with the regular episodes 02:30.820 --> 02:35.720 of that, and we'll probably talk about that a little bit later, but first, I'm gonna jump 02:35.720 --> 02:40.560 into our housekeeping section, I've got quite a few pieces of email this week that I wanted 02:40.560 --> 02:41.200 to talk about. 02:41.980 --> 02:48.640 The first one, and actually this has been the past couple weeks, I got one from Extreme Audio 02:48.640 --> 02:55.580 who says, or actually asks a very straightforward question, are there any stores that sell your 02:55.580 --> 02:56.000 magazine? 02:56.740 --> 02:59.500 And of course he's referring to Binary Revolution the magazine. 03:00.380 --> 03:03.900 No, there are no stores carrying Binary Revolution magazine. 03:03.900 --> 03:07.540 We are completely, in all sense of the word, independent. 03:07.860 --> 03:10.700 It is very much an out-of-the-basement kind of deal. 03:11.380 --> 03:17.460 We actually had our guest host, Logan Five, who he and I do most of the work in designing, 03:17.660 --> 03:19.020 laying out the magazine. 03:19.280 --> 03:21.260 He has, believe me, he does more of the work than I do. 03:22.560 --> 03:25.500 And we are doing this completely over the web, over the internet. 03:26.200 --> 03:30.780 Our goal, yes, is to eventually get to a publisher, get to a distributor who can carry 03:30.780 --> 03:34.020 this in stores, but we have not gotten there yet. 03:34.100 --> 03:40.380 So right now, you will come to binrev.com, you can go to straight to magazine.binrev.com 03:40.380 --> 03:41.800 and order online through PayPal. 03:42.540 --> 03:46.380 We also have options that you can order cash if you don't have or don't want a PayPal account, 03:46.480 --> 03:47.040 so that's cool. 03:47.620 --> 03:52.240 But eventually, yes, we would like to get them in stores, but we need your support to do 03:52.240 --> 03:52.440 so. 03:52.500 --> 03:57.180 We need people to show that there's an audience for a magazine like this and show a publisher, 03:57.180 --> 04:00.560 a distributor, that people are interested in buying this in stores. 04:00.800 --> 04:02.160 So thank you for that email. 04:02.300 --> 04:05.040 That tells me that maybe there are people interested in buying this in a store. 04:05.280 --> 04:06.780 So that is our goal. 04:06.880 --> 04:09.080 We will move in that direction with your help. 04:10.100 --> 04:15.960 Now, another good email I got, and I'm not quite sure how to pronounce this or if there's 04:15.960 --> 04:20.120 any significance to this name, but it's Lab5AE. 04:20.120 --> 04:27.540 I don't know if I'm supposed to pronounce Lab5AE or something, but he says that he just started 04:27.540 --> 04:30.380 listening to Binrev a few weeks ago, Binrev Radio, of course. 04:31.140 --> 04:31.840 Excellent show. 04:31.940 --> 04:33.840 I've already burned the shows and gave them away to friends. 04:33.920 --> 04:35.440 Well, thank you very much for the support. 04:35.520 --> 04:36.400 I'm glad you like it. 04:37.520 --> 04:39.380 And that's a great, great idea. 04:39.480 --> 04:44.360 I love the idea, the fact that you're burning them and giving them out, spreading the word, 04:44.460 --> 04:45.760 getting more and more people interested. 04:45.920 --> 04:49.420 Hopefully, they will like the show and come back and start downloading it. 04:49.420 --> 04:51.480 And, you know, that's the way we grow. 04:51.580 --> 04:52.420 That's the way we spread. 04:52.560 --> 04:55.640 I mean, we started doing this with just a few people and just for the fun of it. 04:56.220 --> 05:00.920 And, I mean, as many of you know, the show has just blown up phenomenally, very happy with it. 05:01.340 --> 05:02.280 The show hasn't changed. 05:02.340 --> 05:05.880 We're still doing it the same way we have for the most part, having fun. 05:05.980 --> 05:08.900 It's just our way of giving back to the community. 05:09.100 --> 05:10.760 So we're going to keep doing that. 05:10.980 --> 05:15.880 And no matter how many people listen, hopefully we'll keep going the same route we have been going. 05:16.340 --> 05:18.980 He also gave me some good advice or a good suggestion here. 05:18.980 --> 05:26.540 He says there's a site called SPCO-OP that prints small runs of zines. 05:26.640 --> 05:29.800 That's .com, of course, that prints small runs of zines. 05:29.920 --> 05:32.500 I know they do a lot of underground metal and punk zines. 05:32.780 --> 05:34.700 I just thought you might want to check it out. 05:34.800 --> 05:35.800 It beats the hell out of stapling. 05:36.380 --> 05:40.020 Well, yeah, trust me, anything beats the hell out of stapling. 05:40.020 --> 05:46.240 Getting poked in the eye with a sharp stick beats the hell out of stapling a bunch of freaking magazines. 05:47.100 --> 05:54.520 I folded, stapled, and tried to trim the whole first run of the magazine, and it was the most miserable time that I've ever had. 05:54.580 --> 05:55.200 It was horrible. 05:55.200 --> 06:02.400 So, yeah, I've been looking for some places to have it printed, but frankly, we're still too small. 06:02.520 --> 06:03.700 We don't have a large enough print run. 06:03.780 --> 06:06.300 Even this site, and I went to there and checked it out. 06:06.380 --> 06:09.700 It's an independent zine comic book publisher. 06:09.920 --> 06:11.620 Like you said, it prints small zines. 06:12.120 --> 06:14.780 The problem, the biggest problem, A, is that it's black and white. 06:15.020 --> 06:16.140 They only print black and white. 06:16.220 --> 06:20.220 They don't do color, and we very much want and like having the color. 06:20.360 --> 06:25.360 And I think the people who've bought the magazine in the past very much like the color covers. 06:25.580 --> 06:29.660 So we're definitely keeping color at least for the cover. 06:29.900 --> 06:32.000 So it's not really a good option. 06:32.260 --> 06:40.220 Also, even though they're small print, small publishing company, they still, what I saw, said they had 1,000 minimum units. 06:40.220 --> 06:45.060 So regardless of the color thing, they still wanted more units than we can really afford to do. 06:45.140 --> 06:51.560 They want 1,000 units per year, and we don't know how many we're going to need over the next year, how much we're going to grow, if we're going to grow. 06:51.780 --> 06:53.200 So I don't know. 06:53.260 --> 06:55.200 That doesn't exactly define small publishing. 06:55.320 --> 07:00.400 1,000, we must be like tiny microscopic publishing compared to that then. 07:02.460 --> 07:07.420 We have another email that actually, Saito and I were talking about this before we started recording. 07:07.420 --> 07:16.260 This was actually an email to Duel, which he forwarded to me, Duel over at Radio Freak America, from, and I hope I don't, I hope I pronounced this name right. 07:16.340 --> 07:18.880 It's Booth, Booth, I guess is the name. 07:20.040 --> 07:30.020 He had quite a few things to say, but the part that I wanted to touch on is that basically he recommends an encoding like Vorbis, which is an OGG container. 07:30.020 --> 07:33.520 It's not patented, widely acceptable, which is absolutely true. 07:33.580 --> 07:36.100 Almost every player I've ever seen plays OGG. 07:37.560 --> 07:45.280 And he was recommending that in lieu of MP3, which still has a copyright, copywritten compression algorithm. 07:46.240 --> 07:48.220 And actually, I very much agree with this. 07:48.220 --> 07:51.900 I absolutely, 100% think this is a good idea. 07:52.680 --> 08:00.700 And truly, because of this email, I have made the decision that I'm going to start converting past episodes and all ongoing episodes. 08:00.700 --> 08:02.860 I'm going to start putting them up in OGG format. 08:03.720 --> 08:09.640 Now, I'm not going to only do OGG format before any of you out there get mad. 08:09.900 --> 08:12.040 I'm still going to put up the MP3 format as well. 08:12.040 --> 08:17.700 I'm going to offer it in both, kind of like our friends over at Game Radio, C4 over there, HWAQ.com. 08:19.040 --> 08:23.220 I'm going to put up both versions because I don't want to alienate people. 08:23.300 --> 08:26.340 I don't want to alienate new users from listening to the show. 08:26.340 --> 08:35.580 And some of our users are not the most deep, technical people, and they don't want to have to deal with the hassle of unusual formats and players and stuff like that. 08:35.640 --> 08:40.560 Yes, the majority of players will play OGG fine, but just to play it safe, I'm going to put up both. 08:40.560 --> 08:42.660 I think that's a good short-term compromise. 08:43.340 --> 08:53.200 And if someday, by some whatever, MP3 goes away, we'll be moving on, we'll be into a new format, and we should be fine. 08:53.260 --> 08:56.660 But I don't see MP3 going anywhere anytime soon. 08:56.720 --> 08:56.980 Do you? 08:56.980 --> 09:15.340 Well, personally, not here, but getting back to the OGG Vorbis, I don't know if you noticed, but I think it was in Red Hat 8, could be 9 also, that most players like XMMS didn't support MP3 anymore because of some type of copyright. 09:15.340 --> 09:20.220 So a lot of users were kind of saying, you know, what was going on, they couldn't play their music anymore. 09:20.640 --> 09:29.720 They had to go out there and get either an OGG Vorbis plug-in, or I think they had some freeware MP3s, but I'm not sure where that's going right now, though. 09:29.720 --> 09:38.340 Yeah, and that's exactly his motivation and exactly his point in saying that it's time to convert if this is what it's going to start coming to, and he's absolutely right. 09:39.180 --> 09:51.240 It also has some cool features, which I saw the other day, a friend of mine, which is into anime also, he was playing when it had dual audio format, so on the fly he was able to switch between English and Japanese, which was kind of cool. 09:51.240 --> 10:00.880 Interesting, so we can have somebody translate our show into Japanese and Spanish and any other language we want, all in the same container? 10:01.560 --> 10:02.400 Yep, multilingual. 10:03.620 --> 10:09.800 We actually have, you'd be very surprised at how many different visits from different countries we get. 10:09.860 --> 10:15.200 We have a lot of people all over the world that listen to the show, so joking aside, that might actually be an option. 10:15.200 --> 10:26.500 I certainly can't speak, I can't even speak English properly, and Lord knows how butchered my Spanish is, so maybe in the future we'll have some volunteers to translate it over into other languages. 10:26.880 --> 10:31.300 That would actually be a really, really cool thing to do, but down the road, down the road sometime. 10:32.500 --> 10:37.420 I have one final email we're going to talk about this week, and this one is from G.I. Joe. 10:37.660 --> 10:40.400 Great name, gotta love the old 80s throwbacks. 10:40.400 --> 10:52.840 He says he's currently listening to the MP3 of Binrev Radio 11, and are listening to us, we were joking about Pringles cans and stuff like that, and like they show it in the movies. 10:53.100 --> 11:04.720 I was definitely referring to, he was questioning, was I talking about that movie Antitrust, which was the kind of Microsoft jab where the person playing Bill Gates was always eating Pringles. 11:04.720 --> 11:20.220 Yeah, I mean, that's what I had in my head when I made the joke, but not only that, but just generally, that people have this thing that hackers are sitting around drinking jolt cola all day, popping cans of Pringles, you know, in between skateboarding ventures. 11:20.980 --> 11:25.640 Nobody wants to see my fat ass on a skateboard, trust me, and I don't do the jolt cola thing. 11:25.640 --> 11:35.720 I might have the occasional Pringles, but no more than anybody else out there, so it's kind of just a jab at the general, you know, idea that people have of hackers that they get from the movies. 11:37.260 --> 11:40.620 Saito, do you go skateboard after work every day? 11:41.160 --> 11:52.520 Personally, I don't, but speaking of the skateboarding thing, the first time I saw hackers, I was totally disgusted by the way that one guy was portrayed skateboarding. 11:52.520 --> 11:55.760 I mean, it just kind of, it was just bad, bad taste. 11:56.120 --> 11:58.000 You're talking about Mr. The Plague? 11:58.220 --> 11:58.500 Yeah. 11:58.660 --> 11:59.320 I know. 11:59.720 --> 12:01.060 I mean, it was kind of funny, but... 12:01.060 --> 12:07.120 Exactly. See, I took it as humor. I just kind of let it go as being funny, but yeah, they intended it to be kind of serious, I think. 12:07.460 --> 12:11.460 Yeah, it's like, I don't go rollerblading either, even though I own a pair of rollerblades foot. 12:12.000 --> 12:15.740 Oh, I own a pair. That doesn't mean I use them or I'm any good at them. 12:15.740 --> 12:29.760 Oh, man. Yeah, there's just a lot of stereotypes out there that, you know, we work, we are professionals, we have full-time jobs, go to school, we live normal lives. 12:29.900 --> 12:34.580 You wouldn't be able to tell most of us from anybody else on the street, you know. 12:34.580 --> 12:51.400 I don't wear a bunch of leather and have all the stereotypical clothes and the style that you see in the movie, so, you know, that was really just kind of joking about how they portray hackers in the media, which, again, that's a horse we've beaten to death on the show many times. 12:51.400 --> 12:56.620 But, yes, thank you for that email. That is exactly what I had in mind, so, yeah, you got that. 12:58.420 --> 13:04.380 And I think that's, I had quite a few emails. I'm going to go ahead and close up the mailbag this week, though. 13:04.460 --> 13:12.220 We'll touch on some more next week. Some of them are a little bit more, take a little bit more time to discuss, and I want to move on to some other topics this week. 13:12.220 --> 13:19.020 And, man, I don't know about you, but I had, last week was just a phenomenal week. 13:19.120 --> 13:32.560 Even Monday of this week, I had so many things going on at one time that I just, you have to shift gears from one thing to the other so much that I just didn't even, couldn't even keep my head straight. 13:32.560 --> 13:40.720 I was writing C code, Pro C, I was writing PLSQL, doing a little bit of shell scripting, which, as you know, is very limited for me. 13:40.720 --> 13:50.860 And you and I had worked on some PGP. Then I got to come home. I'm working on moving the sites over to a new host, finally a host that I will have some control over. 13:51.020 --> 13:56.180 I won't, if anything goes down or anything needs to be modified or changed, it'll be my control now. 13:56.220 --> 14:02.900 So I like having it back in my hands. So I had to come and do a lot of rewriting of my HTML, redoing a lot of my links. 14:03.220 --> 14:07.440 So I've just been coding, like, non-stop lately. 14:07.780 --> 14:09.280 How many times was it so far, the moves? 14:09.280 --> 14:17.580 This is my fourth or fifth. Fourth or fifth. I've kind of lost track. And that's, like, total amongst the two sites. 14:18.460 --> 14:27.140 And that's another thing, is I'm also trying to merge all of these sites under binrev.com, keep that the central place, and kind of move the stank dog. 14:27.140 --> 14:42.940 I don't know, I've always, from day one, felt very, not, I guess paranoid's not the word, but self-glorifying or something, because it's very much, I don't know, it feels like I'm tooting my horn to make stankdawg.com the site that everybody goes to. 14:42.980 --> 14:47.100 I don't want that. I'm going to move that and just make that my own little personal storage. 14:47.100 --> 14:49.680 And, you know, I'll put my articles up and stuff like that. 14:49.720 --> 14:52.580 But I'm going to kind of put everything over to binrev.com. 14:52.720 --> 14:56.520 The binary revolution idea itself is more important to me in pushing that out. 14:56.520 --> 15:08.520 So I'm trying to move everything over there in addition to recoding and putting some new projects up there, the hacker gallery we talked about, and putting the forums over there. 15:08.620 --> 15:10.840 So there's going to be a lot of changes, so bear with us soon. 15:10.920 --> 15:18.280 Actually, as we speak, as this is streaming, I am probably coding and moving some of this stuff over. 15:18.640 --> 15:21.140 I'm joining all the sites under one registrar. 15:21.140 --> 15:28.480 They were scattered under a couple different registrars, kind of putting my hand back in to get all these a little bit more organized and kept together. 15:28.840 --> 15:38.220 So all that, and I did somehow, I don't know how, but over the weekend I did find time to install KazaaLite on my system. 15:39.340 --> 15:45.020 I thought, you know, I want to try to get the show out there, get more people to be aware of it. 15:45.020 --> 15:51.680 So I installed KazaaLite and shared out all the episodes of RFA, Radio Freak America, as well as Binary Revolution Radio. 15:52.180 --> 15:56.300 So I put that out there and let people come and download it and see if they can check it out. 15:56.340 --> 16:03.140 I haven't actually seen or watched it to see if anybody's taking me up and actually downloading them, but it's there and minimized down there. 16:04.720 --> 16:08.020 You did sign up with the RIAA website. 16:08.920 --> 16:11.400 Well, I, of course, wanted my amnesty. 16:12.020 --> 16:12.360 Of course. 16:12.360 --> 16:16.820 Oh, wait a minute. I own the copyrights to these shows. I have permission to air these shows. 16:17.320 --> 16:19.780 Not everything is about copyright, RIAA. 16:20.580 --> 16:21.580 Fucking assholes. 16:22.020 --> 16:27.660 See, damn you. Even when I have a new guest on here, you got me cussing and we're not even, what, 15 minutes into the show. 16:28.200 --> 16:28.700 I'm sorry. 16:28.840 --> 16:35.800 I know. I try to control my, everybody listens every week and I try not, I'm trying my best to not, to not use foul language. 16:35.800 --> 16:39.960 But every time, you know what, it's always the RIAA that brings it out of me. 16:40.020 --> 16:43.400 Those bastards, I swear, suing a 12-year-old girl. 16:43.580 --> 16:46.840 All right, I digress. I'm going to, you know what, let's jump off of that. 16:46.980 --> 16:49.620 Let's jump off to that. Let's jump back to Hack TV for a few minutes. 16:49.840 --> 16:56.380 Because I know you and I have been putting a lot of time analyzing, discussing, thinking what's the best direction to go. 16:56.380 --> 17:01.200 So, I do think, I feel very good about the ideas that we've come up with. 17:01.460 --> 17:02.000 How about you? 17:03.880 --> 17:05.800 We've definitely come up with some good stuff. 17:07.060 --> 17:10.180 Whether or not others will like it, it's up to, you know, we'll see. 17:10.440 --> 17:11.880 Well, it's kind of like the show. 17:11.980 --> 17:15.860 It's like, we're going to come on and we're going to have fun and put it out there. 17:15.960 --> 17:18.140 And I'm sure some people will like it and some won't. 17:18.680 --> 17:21.000 You know, you take the good with the bad, but I think most people will like it. 17:21.000 --> 17:26.100 It's going to be, it started off, I didn't think we were going to make it this way. 17:26.100 --> 17:27.860 Well, I don't know exactly how to word it. 17:28.060 --> 17:30.780 It's going to be funnier than I was expecting, I think. 17:30.960 --> 17:34.320 Yeah, if you like office space and you watch the old Batman stuff, you know. 17:34.700 --> 17:39.380 Yeah, it's, especially if we go through with that skit we talked about yesterday, 17:39.540 --> 17:41.780 the office space will be very relevant reference. 17:41.960 --> 17:42.240 Oh, yeah. 17:43.260 --> 17:48.880 And really what we've been spending most of the time on in the beginning was encoding and formats 17:48.880 --> 17:53.920 and trying to decide on resolution, screen size, what's the best way to get this out 17:53.920 --> 17:56.120 and not completely rape our bandwidth. 17:57.080 --> 17:59.740 And that's what really most of your time has been spent on. 18:00.080 --> 18:06.020 Have we come up or decided on a couple, I think if we, last discussion we decided we were going 18:06.020 --> 18:08.600 to make two versions of it available, is that still the way you're thinking? 18:09.260 --> 18:09.620 Possibly. 18:09.620 --> 18:14.380 I know, believe it or not, Windows Media actually comes out pretty good. 18:15.340 --> 18:19.700 The size goes extremely tiny and the resolution is pretty good. 18:19.700 --> 18:20.760 So is the quality. 18:21.600 --> 18:23.940 Now, I know a lot of people don't have Windows machines. 18:24.440 --> 18:26.880 They run a few Linux machines, Seuss or whatever. 18:27.280 --> 18:28.740 They don't want Windows machines. 18:28.900 --> 18:29.560 They hate Windows. 18:29.860 --> 18:30.080 Right. 18:30.220 --> 18:34.980 So, I mean, there's a chance of going DivX also and possibly AUG, like we were talking about before. 18:35.240 --> 18:35.560 Right. 18:35.560 --> 18:41.480 And that way, you can play it with MPlay or whatever your favorite program is out there. 18:42.220 --> 18:42.620 Yeah. 18:42.740 --> 18:49.720 Now, and the other thing that I like about this is that the WMV is a much smaller file size 18:49.720 --> 18:53.440 because, believe it or not, I mean, well, there's no believe it or not. 18:53.480 --> 18:55.600 I think we all know that not everybody is broadband. 18:56.360 --> 18:57.860 Not everybody is going to be able to download. 18:58.180 --> 19:02.320 I mean, do you have an estimate of how long do you think this, how big do you think the AVI, 19:02.320 --> 19:04.540 the DivX AVI in high quality is going to be? 19:05.560 --> 19:13.440 Right now, we plan maybe like a 512 by 384 resolution size, maybe 15 to 25 minutes. 19:14.760 --> 19:19.880 Well, we'll probably make it around 30 even unless we go gung-ho and make a full hour, 19:19.980 --> 19:21.700 but I don't think we're going to do that right away. 19:22.280 --> 19:26.500 Right now, that might actually come out to be maybe 100, 150 megs. 19:26.680 --> 19:32.000 It might be more depending on which codec is available at what time and all that stuff. 19:32.000 --> 19:40.400 I've seen different versions of DivX, you know, have a range of maybe 50 megs, you know, same size, same quality, and everything. 19:41.080 --> 19:41.480 Wow. 19:41.720 --> 19:45.840 It's kind of pissing me off because DivX, they just can't, they keep changing every week or every two weeks. 19:46.020 --> 19:46.620 Yeah, I know. 19:46.740 --> 19:48.140 That does get kind of annoying. 19:48.140 --> 19:55.720 And like, I've had cases where I downloaded it one day, and then two days later, I try to watch a video, and it's been changed again. 19:56.400 --> 19:58.360 And I have to go re-download the latest one. 19:58.420 --> 19:59.840 It's changed within the last couple days. 19:59.960 --> 20:01.800 That's really annoying. 20:01.960 --> 20:03.400 Plus, is it just me? 20:03.440 --> 20:07.180 Am I just getting bad versions, or am I going to the wrong place to download it? 20:07.220 --> 20:09.620 Because mine is loaded with spyware anymore. 20:10.220 --> 20:12.680 I just want the damn decoder, and that's it. 20:12.760 --> 20:13.680 Don't give me the player. 20:13.800 --> 20:15.900 Don't give me the plug-ins and all the extra crap. 20:16.000 --> 20:17.400 Just give me the fucking DLL. 20:18.240 --> 20:19.500 Well, DivX is starting to do that now. 20:19.560 --> 20:20.660 They've got a couple different versions. 20:20.900 --> 20:22.800 They've got the professional, which you have to pay for. 20:22.800 --> 20:29.100 And then you've got the regular decoder and player, but supposedly that has some form of adware built in. 20:29.540 --> 20:32.760 And they say it doesn't put any spyware in there, but that's yet to be determined. 20:33.120 --> 20:34.680 Yeah, see, I'm pretty sure they do. 20:35.240 --> 20:39.940 That's why, you know, adware itself, I run that, like, weekly now, because... 20:39.940 --> 20:41.020 Excellent program, by the way. 20:41.160 --> 20:41.500 Excellent. 20:41.700 --> 20:44.360 It's just an absolute necessity anymore. 20:44.760 --> 20:48.860 I run it weekly because there's so much stuff out there that just flat-out lies. 20:48.860 --> 20:55.060 You know, that's why I install Kazaa Lite, because Kazaa, as everybody knows, is loaded with spyware. 20:55.360 --> 20:59.860 And, ugh, and every time I see Gator, I just want to spit on the screen. 21:00.320 --> 21:02.020 I hate that program so bad. 21:02.860 --> 21:08.640 For those that might not know what adware is, you can go to www.lavasoftusa.com and get that. 21:09.140 --> 21:11.080 Totally removes all kinds of spyware on your system. 21:11.180 --> 21:13.060 Yeah, highly, highly recommended. 21:13.240 --> 21:17.060 And now, unfortunately, that's a Windows-only product, is it not? 21:17.060 --> 21:23.780 That is correct, but you won't really have to worry about spyware if you've got some type of Unix variant. 21:24.080 --> 21:24.520 Exactly. 21:26.060 --> 21:28.020 Oh, very good advice, very good advice. 21:28.140 --> 21:31.080 Well, let's move into some actual news topics this week, 21:31.140 --> 21:36.140 because I've had a very bad tendency lately of just ranting and going into stories and laughing. 21:36.380 --> 21:39.160 I want to actually cover some real topics this week. 21:39.160 --> 21:43.380 And the first one is something I actually mentioned on RFA last week, 21:43.920 --> 21:51.300 and that is that Microsoft's new OS Longhorn, codename Longhorn, Long Dong, whatever they're going to call it, 21:51.780 --> 21:53.360 has been delayed once again. 21:54.460 --> 21:56.300 It reminds me of back in Windows 95. 21:56.460 --> 21:58.140 They pushed this back and pushed it back. 21:58.400 --> 22:03.640 And, you know, Windows 95 was originally supposed to be Windows Chicago in, like, 1993 or something. 22:03.740 --> 22:04.720 They kept bumping it back. 22:04.720 --> 22:06.680 They almost didn't even get it out in 1995. 22:07.920 --> 22:10.280 And that looks like the same thing is happening with Longhorn here. 22:10.380 --> 22:12.560 Are they going to call it Longhorn when it's actually released, 22:12.640 --> 22:14.660 or are they going to have another name change? 22:14.800 --> 22:16.020 Probably going to have another name change. 22:16.220 --> 22:16.500 Yeah. 22:18.100 --> 22:19.780 Yeah, Longhorn doesn't exactly... 22:19.780 --> 22:24.220 Yeah, there's too many Long Dong jokes just waiting to be Long John Silver. 22:24.360 --> 22:25.960 There's too many jokes for that one. 22:27.100 --> 22:30.580 Last I heard it was coming out 2005, but now it looks like it's, what, 2006? 22:30.580 --> 22:31.780 Yeah, that's what they're saying. 22:32.040 --> 22:34.340 And how convenient that that's happening. 22:34.500 --> 22:37.300 I mentioned this before, and I was going to go into more detail today. 22:38.080 --> 22:44.700 How convenient that the antitrust settlement with the Department of Justice expires five years. 22:45.180 --> 22:45.740 Well, guess what? 22:45.800 --> 22:49.320 Five years, that would be 2001, 2003, 2006. 22:49.580 --> 22:50.860 How convenient is that? 22:50.860 --> 22:58.520 So, the agreement which said that they would not be bundling and taking advantage of their monopoly 22:58.520 --> 23:04.020 to force software onto people and to integrate things into their operating system. 23:04.160 --> 23:09.020 Because, again, most of the listeners know this, so I'm not going to rehash the history of this whole deal. 23:09.480 --> 23:13.940 But the long and short of it is that when Microsoft released their operating systems, 23:14.020 --> 23:17.280 they were bundling MSN already on it and installed. 23:17.280 --> 23:22.040 And it was not fair to the other ISPs at the time, as well as Internet Explorer, 23:22.380 --> 23:26.100 which was, quote, integrated into the operating system. 23:26.680 --> 23:30.020 Yet, when you tried to put Netscape or any of these others on there, 23:30.220 --> 23:32.060 it was nothing but problems and headaches. 23:32.240 --> 23:36.700 Yes, you could install it, but Internet Explorer had a tendency of taking it back over. 23:36.900 --> 23:41.300 It had a tendency of causing errors in any other programs you put on there. 23:41.640 --> 23:43.920 So, they were told that that was illegal. 23:43.920 --> 23:48.040 So, they were taking advantage of their monopoly to push their other products. 23:48.640 --> 23:52.300 Well, a lot of good it did, because Internet Explorer is the top browser. 23:52.900 --> 23:55.660 Netscape is just, do they even put out new versions? 23:55.820 --> 24:00.060 I mean, all you have now is Mozilla, the Mozilla project, which is great. 24:00.400 --> 24:04.800 But, you know, Microsoft just pretty much, once again, killed off the competition with that. 24:05.220 --> 24:08.720 I think Netscape is still putting stuff out, but not as often as they used to. 24:08.720 --> 24:14.860 Yeah, see, they've turned into more like a, they remind me of IBM. 24:15.160 --> 24:20.060 They're going more into the service area, and they have really, like you said, 24:20.100 --> 24:21.720 they're not doing much with the browser anymore. 24:22.020 --> 24:24.040 Well, I'm not trying to say much they're going into service, 24:24.160 --> 24:29.380 because I know at one point AOL and Sun and Netscape had an alliance called iPlanet, 24:29.880 --> 24:31.900 and that just recently dissolved about a year ago. 24:32.260 --> 24:33.520 Everything kind of went back to Sun. 24:33.520 --> 24:37.580 And so all the products that Netscape had, like mail and web servers and all that stuff, 24:38.320 --> 24:39.440 now belong to Sun. 24:40.680 --> 24:41.540 Very interesting. 24:42.660 --> 24:43.560 Very interesting. 24:44.320 --> 24:45.960 So what is Netscape doing these days? 24:46.760 --> 24:47.280 It's me. 24:48.020 --> 24:49.660 I don't have Netscape installed, do you? 24:50.280 --> 24:53.540 Well, no, and I have to say, unfortunately, 24:54.340 --> 24:58.760 it's terrible that they were put in this situation, possibly, debatably, 24:58.860 --> 24:59.840 we won't go into a debate, 24:59.840 --> 25:03.040 because of the situation with Microsoft pushing them to a side. 25:03.560 --> 25:06.160 But frankly, their product was not, 25:06.700 --> 25:08.680 the later versions of it were so bloated, 25:09.360 --> 25:11.940 and just frankly, they weren't very good in my personal opinion, 25:11.940 --> 25:14.700 so I stopped using it because the functionality was not there, 25:14.760 --> 25:17.960 because it didn't do what I wanted to do as well 25:17.960 --> 25:19.940 and as quickly and efficiently as I wanted to do it. 25:20.020 --> 25:22.080 So that's the reason I stopped using it. 25:22.680 --> 25:24.780 That's probably the reason a lot of people stopped using it. 25:24.780 --> 25:29.740 Right now, I think I'm starting to use Mozilla Firebird, 25:29.820 --> 25:30.500 which is pretty nice. 25:30.580 --> 25:32.240 It's kind of clean, stripped down. 25:32.800 --> 25:34.240 I have the same thing. 25:34.300 --> 25:35.520 I had that working on my laptop, 25:35.740 --> 25:37.820 and I was starting getting used to that and liking it. 25:38.080 --> 25:42.440 But the irony there is that is built off of the last code 25:42.440 --> 25:43.860 that Netscape released to the public, 25:43.860 --> 25:50.320 and people started running with that source that was released to create it. 25:50.360 --> 25:51.660 So it's based on the same thing. 25:51.740 --> 25:54.220 How is there so much better than what Netscape was doing? 25:55.700 --> 25:57.760 I guess it's just all the open source. 25:58.020 --> 25:58.240 Yeah. 25:58.560 --> 26:01.220 Go in there and just take out Bloat. 26:01.580 --> 26:04.400 Yeah, just better programmers, I guess, more efficient. 26:05.160 --> 26:06.020 Because that's what it is. 26:06.040 --> 26:09.320 It was Bloat, and I mean, Microsoft is the king of Bloatware. 26:09.420 --> 26:09.760 But anyway. 26:10.100 --> 26:10.400 Right. 26:10.400 --> 26:15.040 So anyway, they've bumped that back to 2006. 26:16.200 --> 26:18.380 Of course, it's yet to be determined 26:18.380 --> 26:20.400 if they're going to start integrating again, 26:20.480 --> 26:22.140 if they're going to start putting this stuff together. 26:22.140 --> 26:24.940 I know for a fact that they have purchased 26:24.940 --> 26:27.700 a couple different antivirus software companies. 26:28.360 --> 26:30.100 So, hey, they start integrating that, 26:30.220 --> 26:32.680 then, you know, Symantec and Norton and all these, 26:33.320 --> 26:35.500 what's the other one, McAfee, 26:36.200 --> 26:37.600 you know they're going to be pissed 26:37.600 --> 26:41.720 if Microsoft is now going to integrate virus scanning 26:41.720 --> 26:42.980 into the operating system. 26:44.120 --> 26:45.940 You know, they're going to be out of luck. 26:45.980 --> 26:49.060 Who's going to pay for it when it's built into Windows' operating system? 26:49.060 --> 26:50.800 Right, and I didn't even hear about that one. 26:50.840 --> 26:51.400 That's new to me. 26:51.560 --> 26:54.200 Yeah, they bought a, I think I talked about it 26:54.200 --> 26:58.040 on one of the first couple episodes of BinRev Radio. 26:58.320 --> 27:00.040 They bought an antivirus company, 27:00.160 --> 27:02.060 I think it's from Norway or somewhere in Europe, 27:02.940 --> 27:04.420 and bought their technology, 27:04.600 --> 27:06.900 and yeah, that's what their speculation was 27:06.900 --> 27:09.040 that they were going to integrate that into the new OS. 27:09.440 --> 27:11.800 So, you know, same old Microsoft. 27:11.800 --> 27:15.600 And, from one company I hate, 27:15.680 --> 27:16.880 well, actually, you know, I can't say that. 27:16.940 --> 27:18.280 I actually kind of like some, 27:18.680 --> 27:20.540 I like Microsoft products, I just think, 27:21.080 --> 27:23.240 well, some Microsoft products, let me clarify that. 27:23.460 --> 27:25.200 I don't like their business practices too much, 27:25.240 --> 27:27.800 but I actually think Microsoft makes some stuff that's really good. 27:28.480 --> 27:30.580 A little bloated, a lot bloated, but still. 27:31.620 --> 27:34.260 But one company I do hate from the ground up is Sony. 27:34.900 --> 27:37.080 And I know you probably disagree with me on this one, 27:37.160 --> 27:39.300 but I just cannot stand these hypocrites. 27:40.080 --> 27:45.280 So, today's anti-Sony is the how to hack your dog section. 27:46.180 --> 27:47.400 Sony iBow. 27:48.300 --> 27:49.580 Of course, you know the iBow, right? 27:49.760 --> 27:50.080 Of course. 27:50.200 --> 27:52.960 The little robotic dog, cute as hell, blah, blah, blah. 27:53.620 --> 27:55.940 Well, the latest version of Sony's iBow 27:55.940 --> 28:00.080 is going to be built with a wireless connection built into it. 28:00.180 --> 28:04.120 So, hackers of the world, time to hack the iBow. 28:04.120 --> 28:07.380 Actually, hacking the iBow is actually a little underground kind of thing 28:07.380 --> 28:08.260 that's been going on anyway. 28:08.260 --> 28:12.760 People love to reprogram their iBow to do certain tricks and stuff like that. 28:12.880 --> 28:15.120 So, hacking the iBow is not exactly new. 28:15.760 --> 28:20.700 But with this wireless connection, I'm trying to say, 28:21.140 --> 28:26.260 we're going to see, well, we could possibly see hijacking people's iBows. 28:27.240 --> 28:29.020 I'm sure it's not going to be an easy thing. 28:29.180 --> 28:30.260 It probably will never happen. 28:30.260 --> 28:31.360 But it's a funny concept. 28:31.480 --> 28:36.380 Can you imagine these people walking down the street with their iBows 28:36.380 --> 28:40.560 or even just around the house and all of a sudden the iBow gets dog-jacked 28:40.560 --> 28:42.860 and runs out the door down the stairs to somebody? 28:42.860 --> 28:45.880 No, I've personally never seen one in person. 28:45.960 --> 28:46.240 Have you? 28:47.200 --> 28:53.580 I saw a demo of one like in a mall or in a, I don't remember, was it a Best Buy or somewhere? 28:53.700 --> 28:56.120 I saw a demo of one and it was actually really cool. 28:56.880 --> 28:58.260 They're sort of pricey, aren't they? 28:58.600 --> 29:02.020 I think this one, this one is, hold on, I have it right in front of me. 29:02.020 --> 29:05.940 This new model is $1,600, $1,600. 29:06.820 --> 29:08.200 Yeah, okay. 29:08.480 --> 29:09.380 Yeah, exactly. 29:09.920 --> 29:11.900 How many real dogs can you get for $1,600? 29:12.440 --> 29:14.640 Well, then again, you don't have to clean up after the iBow. 29:14.700 --> 29:15.340 That's a bonus. 29:16.240 --> 29:18.160 That may be worth a couple hundred right there. 29:18.720 --> 29:19.580 I don't know about $1,600. 29:19.880 --> 29:21.020 Yeah, right, right. 29:23.060 --> 29:26.820 Yeah, and with $1,600, people are going to be keeping a close eye on that dog. 29:26.860 --> 29:28.760 He's not going to get out the door and run out to somebody. 29:28.820 --> 29:31.080 There's not going to be any dog jackings going on, I don't think. 29:31.080 --> 29:34.460 Like, there's going to be, like, this underground civilization. 29:34.620 --> 29:37.260 They're going to be, like, instead of roosters and cockfighting, 29:37.280 --> 29:39.940 they're going to have these little iBow fights going on with hacked versions. 29:40.340 --> 29:43.800 These new versions of the iBow also have, I forgot their terminology, 29:44.080 --> 29:47.980 but basically a little brain, a little, I think it's called iBow mind, 29:48.500 --> 29:51.800 where you can put in a memory stick and reprogram and teach the dog tricks 29:51.800 --> 29:53.280 by inserting a new memory stick. 29:54.020 --> 29:58.600 So, I can just picture people teaching the dogs to fight to the death or fight. 29:58.600 --> 30:01.100 There's going to be little dog pits going on. 30:02.200 --> 30:03.620 Actually, here's the scene I pictured. 30:03.720 --> 30:07.660 This would be the most hilarious thing for Hack TV. 30:08.240 --> 30:12.800 It would never happen, you know, but I can just picture driving down the street, 30:12.900 --> 30:14.680 war driving, you've got your laptop in the car, 30:15.220 --> 30:17.340 just cruising along, low riding, bouncing, 30:17.500 --> 30:20.640 and right behind you you've got an army of iBows trailing along behind, 30:20.700 --> 30:24.220 like 20 to 30 iBows, just running along behind the car, chasing it, 30:24.220 --> 30:26.600 where you've just dog jacked every iBow in the city. 30:27.240 --> 30:28.280 That would be hilarious. 30:28.600 --> 30:29.360 I'd pay to see that. 30:29.500 --> 30:34.280 That would, we can Photoshop, we can fix that or something, just to be funny. 30:35.200 --> 30:38.480 That would be hilarious, but no, that's going to be tough to do. 30:38.540 --> 30:39.360 We're just joking around. 30:39.480 --> 30:42.060 But it is, you know, there is a wireless connection in there. 30:42.120 --> 30:45.960 I'm sure people are going to play and hack this iBow just like they have all the others. 30:45.960 --> 30:55.000 So, another article I read, this kind of, I don't know what to think about this one. 30:55.020 --> 30:59.600 I kind of got a little bit pissed off at this, but at the same time, I kind of agree with this. 31:00.000 --> 31:03.360 So, you know what, this will be, let me see what you think about this. 31:03.540 --> 31:07.360 And this is an article I read on vigilante justice on the internet. 31:08.060 --> 31:13.080 And that there are increasing numbers of acts of vigilante justice going on, 31:13.140 --> 31:14.380 mostly against spammers. 31:14.380 --> 31:21.040 There are even open source programs being written and developed to out-spam the spammers, 31:21.220 --> 31:22.200 to hack the spammers. 31:23.440 --> 31:27.100 Obviously, filtering spam is a great thing, but these are actually aggressive software 31:27.100 --> 31:29.960 that are supposed to turn the spam back at people. 31:30.880 --> 31:34.100 Now, I absolutely agree with this. 31:34.200 --> 31:34.980 I have to say it. 31:35.060 --> 31:36.960 I don't know if it's a bad thing for me to say that. 31:37.020 --> 31:37.900 It's kind of destructive. 31:38.100 --> 31:40.280 I don't really like putting the negative out there too much. 31:40.280 --> 31:45.360 But, you know, this is one of those, I feel like they deserve it kind of situations, you know. 31:46.320 --> 31:50.300 Vigilante justice, there's no laws, they will not pass laws against spamming, 31:50.320 --> 31:52.540 or not good ones anyway, that you can sink your teeth into. 31:53.200 --> 31:56.120 You know, our judicial system doesn't care. 31:56.440 --> 31:59.180 I mean, look how long it took us to get a no-call list for God's sake. 31:59.180 --> 32:03.880 Right, and it's only if you're a big-name company like Amazon or Yahoo or Microsoft 32:03.880 --> 32:08.180 where you can actually do something about it, you know, fighting spam. 32:08.400 --> 32:12.800 I think there was a few lawsuits that were settled a while back. 32:13.940 --> 32:19.780 Yeah, I think it was Amazon got maybe $50,000 out of a company in California 32:19.780 --> 32:21.840 that was spamming under their name. 32:21.840 --> 32:25.300 Yeah, and I wonder how much they had to pay their lawyers and everything fees 32:25.300 --> 32:26.520 just to get that $50,000. 32:26.620 --> 32:29.880 It probably ended up in the hole after the whole thing was said and done. 32:31.820 --> 32:33.700 But, yeah, I personally agree with you. 32:33.800 --> 32:34.720 I hate spam. 32:34.820 --> 32:35.800 I get tons of it. 32:37.300 --> 32:41.960 I told the listeners a couple episodes ago about CloudMark SpamNet. 32:42.780 --> 32:45.220 I don't know if you used that, a plug-in for Microsoft Outlook. 32:45.220 --> 32:49.480 And I checked my numbers. 32:49.680 --> 32:51.160 This is as of a week ago. 32:51.960 --> 32:53.540 It keeps a running count. 32:54.360 --> 32:58.140 And I had about 13,000 emails since I installed it. 32:58.480 --> 33:01.440 And out of that, 9,000 were spam. 33:02.740 --> 33:06.740 9,000 out of 13,000 were spam mail, 33:06.800 --> 33:09.080 which automatically got filtered out for that program. 33:09.300 --> 33:10.480 That's what got filtered. 33:10.600 --> 33:12.080 Of course, a few extra slipped through, 33:12.080 --> 33:14.780 so probably closer to 10,000 33:14.780 --> 33:17.480 since I installed this earlier in the year. 33:18.880 --> 33:19.840 That's just ridiculous. 33:20.420 --> 33:21.460 It's not even... 33:21.460 --> 33:22.660 I mean, it's a joke. 33:23.120 --> 33:24.820 It's just so sickening. 33:24.880 --> 33:25.980 And this is my work account. 33:26.740 --> 33:28.340 This is my work email account. 33:28.520 --> 33:29.880 This is not Hotmail. 33:29.960 --> 33:32.380 Everybody makes the comments and jokes about Hotmail and Yahoo. 33:32.700 --> 33:33.840 Yeah, they get a lot, 33:34.200 --> 33:36.140 but this is my work account, 33:36.240 --> 33:37.260 and I get that much there. 33:37.320 --> 33:38.080 How am I supposed to... 33:38.760 --> 33:39.220 Your work? 33:39.340 --> 33:40.320 Yeah, exactly. 33:40.320 --> 33:43.300 Well, luckily, this thing helps me out tremendously. 33:43.480 --> 33:44.740 It filters out most of them, 33:45.460 --> 33:46.620 and I can concentrate. 33:46.780 --> 33:48.940 I can just delete a couple of the others out. 33:50.240 --> 33:53.580 And we're actually going to have an upcoming episode with detail. 33:53.700 --> 33:55.480 I actually have an article right in front of me 33:55.480 --> 33:56.880 called Stopping Spam, 33:57.460 --> 34:00.360 and it's an IT pro who talks about the trick spammers use 34:00.360 --> 34:03.580 to evade anti-spam filters and countermeasures. 34:03.780 --> 34:06.680 So I'm going to talk about that on an upcoming episode, 34:06.820 --> 34:09.400 some detailed technical aspects of how this works. 34:09.400 --> 34:11.600 We've touched on some in the past on the show, 34:12.260 --> 34:14.800 but I'm going to go into that in another episode, 34:14.920 --> 34:16.260 so we won't spend too much time here. 34:16.540 --> 34:18.080 The other thing about this story, though, 34:18.100 --> 34:20.640 that actually kind of pissed me off is, 34:20.740 --> 34:22.480 again, like I said, I agree with it. 34:22.560 --> 34:24.080 I'm all for vigilante justice, 34:24.400 --> 34:25.280 not only on the Internet, 34:25.480 --> 34:26.660 but in, you know... 34:26.660 --> 34:27.660 Anyway, we won't go there. 34:28.480 --> 34:30.260 But the thing that really pissed me off, 34:30.400 --> 34:31.660 and the article didn't say this. 34:31.680 --> 34:32.940 This is just in my mind. 34:32.940 --> 34:35.260 And I find it incredibly convenient 34:35.260 --> 34:39.120 that when it's the hackers taking on the spammers 34:39.120 --> 34:42.520 or the hackers that are taking down child pornography sites, 34:42.620 --> 34:43.300 stuff like that, 34:44.040 --> 34:46.340 we get articles written in magazines about us. 34:46.460 --> 34:49.220 You know, we get articles about how people are coming... 34:49.220 --> 34:50.660 Vigilante justice articles, 34:50.780 --> 34:51.860 not good hacker artists. 34:51.980 --> 34:53.440 They call us vigilante justice. 34:54.120 --> 34:55.160 But they write articles, 34:55.400 --> 34:57.180 and everybody kind of turns a blind eye 34:57.180 --> 34:58.300 because it's a common enemy. 34:58.400 --> 34:59.520 We're all, you know, out there. 34:59.520 --> 35:01.900 But when, you know, 35:01.980 --> 35:04.120 somebody like Adrian Llamo or anybody 35:04.120 --> 35:06.160 publicly comes out and says, 35:06.260 --> 35:09.060 hey, New York Times website has a vulnerability 35:09.060 --> 35:12.160 or, you know, Amazon.com has this vulnerability 35:12.160 --> 35:13.380 on their site they need to patch, 35:13.580 --> 35:14.560 all of a sudden, 35:14.740 --> 35:17.420 here comes the fucking FBI wanting to swarm 35:17.420 --> 35:20.820 and put this kid in jail for something 35:20.820 --> 35:22.740 that all he did was tell... 35:22.740 --> 35:24.080 You know, how convenient is it 35:24.080 --> 35:26.300 that there's a double standard there? 35:26.720 --> 35:27.080 You know? 35:27.080 --> 35:29.060 Those kind of stories make me mad. 35:29.520 --> 35:33.220 I get on a soapbox every time I hear one of these, 35:33.280 --> 35:35.200 so I'm going to back off of it once again 35:35.200 --> 35:36.100 because I have a tendency 35:36.100 --> 35:37.700 to really get pissed about stuff like that. 35:38.000 --> 35:39.040 But that's a double standard. 35:39.200 --> 35:40.380 I mean, if you want... 35:40.380 --> 35:42.600 Everybody complains about hackers are bad guys 35:42.600 --> 35:44.080 and they all do this and do that. 35:44.460 --> 35:45.660 Well, look, here's an example 35:45.660 --> 35:47.240 of some of the stuff that people support 35:47.240 --> 35:49.480 and that we do good, you know, 35:49.580 --> 35:51.340 and again, good and bad, right and wrong, 35:51.420 --> 35:53.380 is very, very... 35:53.380 --> 35:53.940 In line. 35:54.160 --> 35:55.360 Yeah, and, you know, 35:55.400 --> 35:56.860 and everybody has their own opinion 35:56.860 --> 35:58.500 on what's good and bad, et cetera, et cetera. 35:58.500 --> 35:59.700 But, you know, 35:59.760 --> 36:00.900 here's a lot of good stuff 36:00.900 --> 36:01.900 that hackers do, 36:01.980 --> 36:02.800 and I've said before, 36:03.040 --> 36:04.780 if it wasn't for good hackers 36:04.780 --> 36:06.300 or real hackers, as I call them, 36:06.660 --> 36:10.120 I mean, Linux itself is built by hackers. 36:10.280 --> 36:12.080 It's a bunch of open source people 36:12.080 --> 36:12.920 working together, 36:13.300 --> 36:16.360 developing an alternative operating system. 36:16.460 --> 36:17.780 How great is that? 36:18.960 --> 36:20.380 Anyway, I digress. 36:20.600 --> 36:21.700 I'm going to move on. 36:22.500 --> 36:23.520 Another topic. 36:23.860 --> 36:25.260 You know, I'm going to skip this. 36:25.260 --> 36:26.360 I'm going to go into this. 36:26.840 --> 36:28.320 I have a little timeline here 36:28.320 --> 36:29.400 that I think is kind of neat. 36:29.500 --> 36:30.620 I thought I'd share with the listeners. 36:31.360 --> 36:32.220 This is... 36:32.220 --> 36:33.700 I already ruined a couple of these 36:33.700 --> 36:35.200 because I told you before we started taping. 36:35.680 --> 36:37.100 But I have this little timeline, 36:37.340 --> 36:38.640 and this is from this month's 36:38.640 --> 36:39.900 Popular Science magazine, 36:40.080 --> 36:41.680 one of the many that I've subscribed to. 36:43.440 --> 36:45.660 It's a timeline about the RAA, 36:46.060 --> 36:47.040 MP3, CD, 36:47.220 --> 36:51.480 just general music topics. 36:51.480 --> 36:53.620 And I thought I'd read a couple of these dates. 36:53.760 --> 36:55.140 And, you know, I'll bounce a couple off of. 36:55.180 --> 36:56.520 You already know the answer to this one. 36:56.960 --> 36:58.020 But in 1982, 36:58.620 --> 37:01.220 Sony Music released the first commercial CD. 37:02.100 --> 37:03.460 And if you remember correctly, 37:03.560 --> 37:04.840 it is, of course... 37:04.840 --> 37:05.720 Mr. Billy Joel. 37:05.880 --> 37:08.680 Billy Joel's 52nd Street, 1982. 37:08.960 --> 37:10.300 That was the first one. 37:10.700 --> 37:12.120 Just a little interesting tidbit. 37:12.680 --> 37:14.300 But here's something I didn't tell you yet. 37:14.380 --> 37:15.260 This one... 37:15.260 --> 37:16.500 Let's see if you can guess this one. 37:16.780 --> 37:18.480 In 1989... 37:19.420 --> 37:20.540 Okay, this is a technical... 37:20.540 --> 37:21.160 This is a technical. 37:22.300 --> 37:26.100 1989, the first consumer CD recorder. 37:27.100 --> 37:28.280 Denon, D-E-N-O-N. 37:28.340 --> 37:29.920 Is that Denon or D-N-N? 37:30.100 --> 37:30.780 Denon, yeah. 37:31.260 --> 37:33.240 D-N-770-R was released. 37:33.640 --> 37:35.980 The unit costs how much? 37:37.780 --> 37:38.180 Hmm. 37:39.040 --> 37:40.400 Here, I'll give you a little hint. 37:40.600 --> 37:40.900 Okay. 37:41.180 --> 37:44.280 Blank CDs, blank discs in 1989, 37:44.880 --> 37:45.460 $40. 37:46.960 --> 37:50.140 I'm going to say maybe $6,000, $7,000. 37:51.140 --> 37:52.300 Triple it. 37:52.900 --> 37:53.260 Wow. 37:53.860 --> 37:57.320 $20,000 for the first CD burner. 37:57.700 --> 37:58.100 1989. 37:58.680 --> 37:59.360 That's not that long. 37:59.440 --> 38:01.160 I mean, I guess it is long ago, 38:01.200 --> 38:02.740 but it doesn't seem long ago, does it? 38:03.280 --> 38:05.940 Well, something that I'm not sure if you might know, 38:06.020 --> 38:07.500 is that computer generations, 38:07.760 --> 38:08.780 the way technology goes, 38:09.360 --> 38:12.420 each generation today is, I believe, 18 months. 38:12.820 --> 38:13.320 Oh, yeah. 38:13.720 --> 38:15.620 So, I mean, if you look at it that way, 38:15.740 --> 38:17.700 that's, I don't know how many generations old, 38:18.640 --> 38:21.000 and I guess you can maybe double or triple the price 38:21.000 --> 38:24.020 as it goes back compared to today. 38:24.280 --> 38:26.040 Well, and look, even right now, 38:26.200 --> 38:27.580 I think that's even shrinking. 38:27.700 --> 38:29.700 I think it's a faster than 18 months nowadays 38:29.700 --> 38:32.920 because it was only at the beginning of this year, 38:33.080 --> 38:33.940 January of this year, 38:33.940 --> 38:37.200 when DVD burners started to really come out. 38:37.440 --> 38:39.420 I mean, of course, they started high, too. 38:39.720 --> 38:40.020 Right. 38:40.200 --> 38:42.120 But not like $20,000 high. 38:42.440 --> 38:43.200 And, I mean, here it is. 38:43.280 --> 38:43.920 It's not even... 38:43.920 --> 38:47.200 By Christmastime, I'm not going to... 38:47.200 --> 38:48.820 I bet you by Christmas, 38:49.060 --> 38:50.200 you will be able to get... 38:50.200 --> 38:51.620 It'll be maybe after rebates 38:51.620 --> 38:53.740 and maybe on one weekend-only sale, 38:53.920 --> 38:56.060 but I bet you can get DVD burners for $150. 38:56.640 --> 38:58.200 I'd probably say even less, maybe $100. 38:58.360 --> 38:58.800 You think you... 38:58.800 --> 38:59.860 I was going to say $99, 39:00.120 --> 39:01.940 but I wasn't sure if they're going to go that low. 39:02.660 --> 39:04.360 You might find your no-name brands down there. 39:04.600 --> 39:06.940 Yeah, I mean, you can find those for $199 now. 39:08.080 --> 39:10.540 Now, as of September 20... 39:10.540 --> 39:11.540 What are we, it's 23rd? 39:11.620 --> 39:14.360 September 23rd, you can find them for $199. 39:15.120 --> 39:17.380 Again, it may be after rebates or something, but still. 39:18.460 --> 39:20.600 So, yeah, that just blew my mind. 39:20.800 --> 39:22.000 $20,000? 39:22.480 --> 39:23.660 That's more than my car. 39:24.480 --> 39:26.880 The Stankmobile did not cost $20,000. 39:28.340 --> 39:29.140 That's sad. 39:30.140 --> 39:31.320 Yeah, it's a small fortune there. 39:31.500 --> 39:33.400 And then $40 for the blank disc. 39:33.400 --> 39:38.400 I mean, you know, back then, it wasn't cost-effective to do anything with it, so... 39:38.400 --> 39:41.100 I think I remember the most paying for a CD back in the day. 39:41.180 --> 39:41.720 It was like $10. 39:42.400 --> 39:43.800 Oh, yeah, but... 39:43.800 --> 39:44.640 $40, yeah. 39:44.860 --> 39:45.260 Wow. 39:45.420 --> 39:48.060 You're lucky if you can get a CD single now for... 39:48.060 --> 39:49.560 You get two singles for $10. 39:51.740 --> 39:52.660 Here's a... 39:52.660 --> 39:53.980 You might be able to get this one. 39:53.980 --> 39:59.780 In 1998, college students Justin Frankel and Dimitri Boldyrev... 39:59.780 --> 40:01.940 I hope I'm not mispronouncing that... 40:01.940 --> 40:06.120 Created this first mainstream MP3 player. 40:08.460 --> 40:09.200 At the Rio? 40:09.640 --> 40:11.040 Uh, no, this is software. 40:11.420 --> 40:12.280 Software player. 40:12.700 --> 40:13.060 Oh. 40:13.520 --> 40:14.360 Winamp. 40:15.980 --> 40:17.360 Winamp, 1998. 40:18.360 --> 40:22.220 I was gonna say Winamp, but I could've sworn there was something out before that, that went mainstream. 40:22.220 --> 40:26.120 Well, maybe... 40:26.120 --> 40:30.780 Well, this says, uh, first mainstream MP3 player software and offer it for free on the net. 40:30.860 --> 40:32.380 Maybe it wasn't a free... 40:32.380 --> 40:33.080 That's possible. 40:33.220 --> 40:33.400 Yeah. 40:34.220 --> 40:35.840 Um, okay, here's an easy one. 40:36.180 --> 40:37.380 Here's a very easy one. 40:37.740 --> 40:41.400 Uh, Northeastern University student Sean Fanning. 40:42.720 --> 40:43.280 1999. 40:44.080 --> 40:45.040 What piece of software? 40:46.000 --> 40:47.840 Pretty much the one that started it all. 40:47.940 --> 40:51.220 This is the one that everybody has in the news and still to this day... 40:51.220 --> 40:52.420 Is the... 40:52.420 --> 40:52.660 The Napster? 40:52.840 --> 40:54.040 That would have to be Napster. 40:54.500 --> 40:56.400 The Napster, well, I'm saying the Napster is... 40:56.400 --> 41:00.160 I don't know if you've seen, uh, the Italian job, but it kind of pokes fun at Napster. 41:00.920 --> 41:02.060 No, I haven't seen that. 41:02.240 --> 41:03.180 Very, very humorous. 41:04.080 --> 41:05.100 Uh, let's see. 41:05.180 --> 41:07.020 2001, Napster dies. 41:07.860 --> 41:09.060 Uh, blah, blah, blah. 41:09.200 --> 41:10.460 Let's see, what's another interesting... 41:10.460 --> 41:14.720 Uh, 2003, which is current, they mention the Apple iTunes Music Store. 41:14.720 --> 41:16.080 99 cents a song. 41:17.200 --> 41:23.560 Um, five million downloads at 99 cents a song in its first eight weeks of operation. 41:25.720 --> 41:26.720 Five million. 41:26.900 --> 41:27.640 That's a lot of cash. 41:27.820 --> 41:28.460 That's... 41:28.460 --> 41:32.740 And I said on the show before, that's the closest thing to a happy compromise, a happy medium 41:32.740 --> 41:36.320 that has come out of all of this, this whole situation. 41:37.040 --> 41:42.280 That's not bad, but if you think about it, 99 cents a song in most CDs today have, what, 41:42.360 --> 41:43.640 maybe 12, 15 tracks? 41:43.960 --> 41:45.120 Eh, probably 12. 41:45.240 --> 41:48.940 I mean, that's the other thing that they jab you on, is they don't even fill the CDs up. 41:49.120 --> 41:49.440 Right. 41:50.280 --> 41:53.020 I mean, maybe if they dropped it down to 50 cents, it might be pretty good. 41:53.140 --> 41:55.200 And that's what I think, too. 41:55.240 --> 42:00.300 I think 50 cents would be a fair price, and I would actually buy a lot of music that way. 42:01.060 --> 42:03.860 You know, and then you can pick and choose the singles you want. 42:03.860 --> 42:08.360 You're not stuck with one good song and 11 songs that suck, you know? 42:09.020 --> 42:09.920 How many times has that happened? 42:10.120 --> 42:11.060 A lot. 42:11.460 --> 42:12.300 A lot. 42:13.140 --> 42:14.140 Oh, here, you know what? 42:14.160 --> 42:15.320 Here is something about the Rio. 42:16.220 --> 42:17.060 Let's see. 42:18.500 --> 42:19.660 1999 also. 42:20.140 --> 42:25.860 Recording Industry Association of America, our good, good friends, sues Diamond Multimedia 42:25.860 --> 42:28.000 to stop sales of the Rio. 42:29.240 --> 42:31.800 $200, 32-meg MP3 player. 42:31.800 --> 42:39.360 August 1999, the suit was dropped, and opening the floodgates for portable MP3 player manufacturers. 42:41.040 --> 42:41.880 So, you did. 42:41.960 --> 42:43.600 You had the right year for the Rio, absolutely. 42:44.240 --> 42:44.420 Okay. 42:44.720 --> 42:45.600 Okay, here you go. 42:45.720 --> 42:50.580 This is also a current, 2003, World Ride CD-R Disc Sales. 42:50.880 --> 42:52.340 Blank CD-Rs. 42:53.340 --> 42:53.900 Worldwide. 42:54.760 --> 42:55.980 Estimated at how much? 42:55.980 --> 42:59.380 By today's prices? 43:00.180 --> 43:03.400 Yeah, you know what, and there's not, I won't even make you a guess on this because it's 43:03.400 --> 43:04.560 just too vague of a question. 43:05.240 --> 43:06.740 This blows my mind. 43:07.260 --> 43:08.360 World Ride CD-Rs. 43:08.400 --> 43:13.900 Now, first of all, if there's this much of a market for CD-Rs that tells you what people 43:13.900 --> 43:19.220 think about the high prices and the RAA in general, the fact that this is how much demand 43:19.220 --> 43:25.180 there is, again, I won't go into a whole rant, but worldwide CD-R disc sales are estimated 43:25.180 --> 43:31.660 at $5.7 billion, with a B, billion dollars. 43:33.000 --> 43:33.440 Billion. 43:35.120 --> 43:40.560 You know, a stack, a spindle of 100, you know, breaks down to what, five cents each? 43:41.320 --> 43:44.380 That's a lot of blank CDs, man. 43:45.120 --> 43:45.920 A lot. 43:46.240 --> 43:47.520 A lot of happy burners out there. 43:47.520 --> 43:52.880 Yeah, I'm sure they're making perfectly legal backup copies of their own desktops and software, 43:53.040 --> 43:53.140 though. 43:53.200 --> 43:54.600 I'm sure that's what they're using them for. 43:54.680 --> 43:55.380 Of course, that's what I do. 43:55.520 --> 43:57.000 Well, that's whatever you, that's what we all do. 43:57.060 --> 43:59.060 We just want our right to make backups, that's all. 44:00.460 --> 44:01.880 Oh, anyway, that's enough of those. 44:01.940 --> 44:05.260 I thought those were some, just, the $20,000 thing was my favorite. 44:05.360 --> 44:10.840 I can't believe how much that cost in the beginning, and $5.7 billion, excuse me, those 44:10.840 --> 44:12.420 were just some mind-numbing numbers. 44:12.860 --> 44:17.420 Well, Den, not to go back on that, but Denon actually makes very high-quality audio equipment, 44:17.520 --> 44:20.980 even some of the stuff today, is very expensive. 44:20.980 --> 44:28.420 Dude, for $20,000, I better get personal, one-on-one concerts in my living room from the 44:28.420 --> 44:29.420 artists in question. 44:31.240 --> 44:32.460 $20,000? 44:33.740 --> 44:35.120 Put it back into perspective. 44:35.280 --> 44:38.060 A car, what kind of quality could they possibly make? 44:38.060 --> 44:45.260 Well, like, let's say your average home theater system, you know, receiver, you might spend 44:45.260 --> 44:47.160 maybe $300,000, $400,000 on that. 44:47.740 --> 44:55.720 I think I saw one the other day, a very high-end Denon was about maybe $2,000, $3,000, you know, 44:55.720 --> 44:56.820 just for the receiver itself. 44:57.100 --> 44:57.540 Wow. 44:58.400 --> 44:59.220 And is it worth it? 45:00.400 --> 45:01.360 It had a lot of features. 45:01.740 --> 45:03.140 Well, I know you're very big. 45:03.140 --> 45:04.380 You're an audiophile. 45:04.520 --> 45:06.720 I know you're very, you get into that a lot. 45:06.800 --> 45:11.620 Do you think it's worth, I mean, you're telling me that you think, yes, it is high. 45:11.680 --> 45:12.420 Is it high quality? 45:12.540 --> 45:13.380 Is it better quality? 45:13.500 --> 45:14.340 It's very high quality. 45:14.520 --> 45:20.620 It's got all the latest features, you know, DTS and Dolby EX and all that other good stuff, 45:20.980 --> 45:22.400 like 50 different inputs. 45:23.100 --> 45:24.980 You know, the thing weighs like 200 pounds. 45:24.980 --> 45:30.440 I'm sure if I had the money, it'd probably be worth it, but if you don't, you'd probably 45:30.440 --> 45:34.280 get away with something that's $200 or $300 and sound just as good. 45:34.900 --> 45:35.120 Yeah. 45:35.200 --> 45:36.820 The average consumer, they won't tell the difference. 45:37.060 --> 45:37.460 Exactly. 45:37.640 --> 45:42.600 But, you know, I've heard many people say that they can tell the difference between them, 45:42.600 --> 45:44.200 so, you know, I don't know. 45:44.880 --> 45:46.460 For me, I'm very happy. 45:46.580 --> 45:50.900 I have a kind of a medium-range system, and I'm perfectly happy with it, so. 45:51.580 --> 45:54.720 Yeah, and I'm sure you don't need to control the audio in every single room you have. 45:55.800 --> 46:00.200 No, but, you know, I guess in a perfect world, if I win the lottery, then maybe I'll go looking 46:00.200 --> 46:01.500 at the Denon products. 46:01.660 --> 46:01.920 Right. 46:03.420 --> 46:03.900 All right. 46:03.980 --> 46:06.440 Well, you know, there's one other topic I want to cover today. 46:06.480 --> 46:07.380 I'm going to skip this. 46:07.440 --> 46:12.220 I'm going to go straight to the IDS stuff, because you and I talked about that in the 46:12.220 --> 46:19.180 past, and you have some experience with it, so IDS, of course, is Intrusion Detection 46:19.180 --> 46:22.280 Systems, as opposed to IPS, which is? 46:23.500 --> 46:24.580 That's your... 46:24.580 --> 46:26.580 Intrusion Prevention Systems. 46:27.360 --> 46:29.700 I've got too much work on the brain here. 46:30.120 --> 46:31.200 Oh, it's all Oracle today. 46:31.360 --> 46:34.380 Yeah, I was going to say, actually, this is another first for radio action. 46:34.480 --> 46:37.440 We probably should have mentioned this at the top of the show, but while we're recording 46:37.440 --> 46:39.440 the entire show, you are doing... 46:39.440 --> 46:42.440 Why don't you let them in on a very general... 46:42.440 --> 46:47.960 Well, the powers that be here have DBAs or database administrators. 46:47.960 --> 46:56.060 Unfortunate for me, or fortunate for me, I've been tasked with now being a DBA, among other things. 46:56.860 --> 47:01.820 So not only do I have to learn Oracle now, and how to set it up, and how to maintain it, 47:01.840 --> 47:07.320 but also have to figure out how to do hot backups, which our DBAs couldn't do... well, 47:07.320 --> 47:09.300 they tried to do in six months and still couldn't do it. 47:10.100 --> 47:11.120 How sad is that? 47:12.240 --> 47:18.620 It's incredibly, incredibly sad, and the listeners don't know how much I can relate to it, and 47:18.620 --> 47:21.020 we can't really give them too much on that. 47:21.020 --> 47:23.800 But, we will move on. 47:24.540 --> 47:28.300 So you're installing, you're actually doing what? 47:28.600 --> 47:34.720 I'm in the middle of an upgrade, and once the upgrade is done, I'm still working on how 47:34.720 --> 47:36.460 to figure out hot backups, I'm sure. 47:37.220 --> 47:41.260 Some of our listeners might already know how to do this, but for me, not really a DBA, 47:41.460 --> 47:42.500 you know, it's kind of new. 47:43.140 --> 47:44.420 But, I'm making progress. 47:44.940 --> 47:45.180 Right. 47:45.540 --> 47:49.260 And, at the same time, recording Binary Revolution Radio. 47:49.940 --> 47:50.340 Congratulations. 47:51.020 --> 47:52.160 A radio first. 47:52.500 --> 47:57.220 We've had episodes where we've installed distros of Linux while we record, or installed or 47:57.220 --> 47:58.040 upgraded software. 47:58.600 --> 48:02.840 I think this is the first Oracle episode we've ever done. 48:03.140 --> 48:05.960 So, you are going down in history as the first. 48:07.000 --> 48:12.300 But, we're going to talk about a little bit, again, intrusion detection system versus intrusion 48:12.300 --> 48:13.480 prevention systems. 48:14.500 --> 48:16.620 And, intrusion detection... 48:16.620 --> 48:20.920 For sake of me not stumbling over the words any worse than I already am, 48:21.020 --> 48:25.800 we're going to say IDS versus IPS, and I think the listeners know what we mean now. 48:26.260 --> 48:30.800 But, IDS has a very bad reputation for, well, for a couple of reasons. 48:30.800 --> 48:37.720 It gets a lot of false positives, which, if you remember back on our episode on spam, false 48:37.720 --> 48:42.840 positives are when they say that something is wrong, or they call something spam, or they 48:42.840 --> 48:44.440 call something a problem that really isn't. 48:44.500 --> 48:45.520 It's misinterpreted. 48:45.520 --> 48:50.580 And, that's the bigger issue, is when you accidentally delete a real email. 48:50.720 --> 48:56.320 If you accidentally turn away a customer, or send... 48:56.320 --> 48:58.720 Basically, the way IDS works is it just kind of sniffs. 48:58.800 --> 49:05.300 It sits in between the visitor and the server, and notifies somebody if there's an unusual request, 49:05.360 --> 49:06.620 or something unusual happens. 49:06.620 --> 49:12.580 Usually, a security officer on the other end of a pager, or just sends an email, or whatever, 49:13.060 --> 49:16.880 saying, you know, this happened, and let the people investigate it after the fact. 49:17.420 --> 49:21.580 So, I always use the analogy for this, and I don't know if you're going to agree with my 49:21.580 --> 49:24.100 analogy, but I always say it reminds me of a car alarm. 49:24.820 --> 49:28.940 When you buy a car, when you have a car with an alarm in it, and someone tries to break into 49:28.940 --> 49:31.220 your car, the alarm goes off. 49:31.220 --> 49:33.100 It's very plain and simple. 49:33.660 --> 49:38.600 The problem is, that if someone parks next to you, and gets out of their car, and brushes 49:38.600 --> 49:41.260 your car, they also set the alarm off. 49:41.900 --> 49:46.080 And, if somebody just happens to walk in the front of your car, they might set your alarm 49:46.080 --> 49:46.400 off. 49:46.520 --> 49:50.900 Or, if a dog runs underneath, or a cat jumps on your car, it sets your alarm off. 49:51.000 --> 49:53.880 If the wind blows too hard, it might set your alarm off. 49:54.320 --> 49:59.240 And, we've all seen and heard those cars in the parking lot, the alarms just go off, 49:59.240 --> 50:01.140 and go off, and does anybody go look and check? 50:01.220 --> 50:02.180 No, we ignore it. 50:02.860 --> 50:05.220 It's what happens when you have too many false positives. 50:05.680 --> 50:05.900 Right. 50:06.020 --> 50:10.820 It's what happens when you constantly, you know, every unusual thing, the way the majority 50:10.820 --> 50:12.960 of them are set up, is they send an email out. 50:13.040 --> 50:14.720 Which, that's even ridiculous. 50:14.840 --> 50:17.760 What, are you going to check it the next morning, after you've been hacked, and see what kind 50:17.760 --> 50:19.620 of, you know, that's just a dumb idea. 50:20.900 --> 50:24.160 Ideally, you have someone at the other end of a pager who can get on and check. 50:24.520 --> 50:29.160 But, because of the number of false positives, like the scenario with the car alarm, people 50:29.160 --> 50:33.040 are going to get so many pages, they're going to be like, forget this, I'm trying to sleep, 50:33.240 --> 50:33.680 you know. 50:33.800 --> 50:37.220 And, it just, it ends up being not effective, in my personal opinion. 50:37.320 --> 50:39.280 Do you agree or disagree with that? 50:39.300 --> 50:40.480 Is that a good or bad analogy? 50:40.480 --> 50:42.700 Yeah, I totally agree with that. 50:43.260 --> 50:49.260 And, even today, you know, where I work, I get a lot of those, I won't mention any names, 50:49.360 --> 50:52.920 but there are some people that come up to me and they show me reports saying, you know, 50:53.000 --> 50:57.360 you've got holes open here and there, and, you know, it's just simply not true because 50:57.360 --> 51:01.240 this software is outdated, or it needs to get better software. 51:01.500 --> 51:01.720 Right. 51:01.820 --> 51:03.580 And, yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. 51:03.700 --> 51:04.980 There's also a maintenance point. 51:04.980 --> 51:10.340 You have to update that software any time things change, it has to be updated pretty 51:10.340 --> 51:15.120 much any time another piece of software that it's watching or listening to gets updated. 51:15.380 --> 51:15.580 Right. 51:15.640 --> 51:20.220 Or, maybe they need to watch, you know, CERT advisories, you know, so when they announce 51:20.220 --> 51:22.960 that, they can update their software accordingly. 51:24.000 --> 51:24.320 Right. 51:24.400 --> 51:30.360 Now, along the same logic there, that's going to be the same problem with intrusion prevention 51:30.360 --> 51:31.540 systems, or IPS. 51:31.540 --> 51:36.640 You're going to have the same problem there with updating software, and the difference 51:36.640 --> 51:41.500 between the two is that intrusion prevention, as the name indicates, stops. 51:41.620 --> 51:43.800 It prevents people from coming in. 51:43.880 --> 51:49.660 Malicious attacks, viruses, spam, I mean, to go, again, I don't want to, it's not an email 51:49.660 --> 51:53.000 thing, but it prevents malicious packets from coming in. 51:54.160 --> 52:00.360 False positives are still going to be a problem in that scenario as well, and you have to keep 52:00.360 --> 52:05.480 the software updated, and you have to keep your IPS patched and looking for the proper 52:05.480 --> 52:05.880 things. 52:06.620 --> 52:11.900 Not only, kind of like a virus checker, you have to update the IPS regularly so it knows 52:11.900 --> 52:16.680 what to look for, so it can catch any new forms of attack, and the CERT advisories, like 52:16.680 --> 52:23.640 you said, and Snag, and all these different mailing lists to find out, you know, what it 52:23.640 --> 52:24.420 should be watching for. 52:24.420 --> 52:26.860 You have to keep that updated as well, so it's a lot of maintenance. 52:27.800 --> 52:32.580 But, the difference is that it is supposed to stop people from coming in. 52:32.780 --> 52:33.540 It's prevention. 52:34.040 --> 52:36.100 Stop packets from coming in to attack. 52:37.100 --> 52:43.580 The danger here is that the false positive is a potentially, potentially is a lost customer. 52:43.580 --> 52:50.680 If Amazon were to put an IPS on their system, and somebody comes in and, you know, HTML sometimes 52:50.680 --> 52:56.600 loads wrong, or it just brings up a, you know, a bad packet with one letter off, one letter 52:56.600 --> 53:02.040 different, and when somebody clicks on something to try to order it, it's not necessarily malicious 53:02.040 --> 53:07.160 or an attack of any kind, but an IPS, if it's not properly configured, maintained, watched, 53:07.320 --> 53:10.180 set up, it's going to cause you to lose a customer. 53:10.180 --> 53:13.680 It's going to tell this person, I'm sorry, but you can't do that, and they're going to 53:13.680 --> 53:15.700 be, you know, go somewhere else. 53:15.820 --> 53:20.280 They're going to, you know, you're turning people away, and you're, it's not exactly a 53:20.280 --> 53:21.820 solution either, in my mind. 53:21.900 --> 53:26.380 I guess it's, would you say it's better or worse than IDS, though? 53:27.860 --> 53:29.780 There's a time and a place for everything. 53:29.860 --> 53:32.640 You just have to watch your scenario to figure out what you need. 53:33.200 --> 53:37.220 Like, for example, with Amazon, I don't know if they'd want to actually have something 53:37.220 --> 53:42.520 that type, watching HTTP, but maybe they want to watch other ports, you know, like 53:42.520 --> 53:43.360 Telnet or FTP. 53:44.380 --> 53:48.220 It all depends also how much money you have, and you're willing to dedicate to it. 53:49.160 --> 53:54.400 I know, for example, here, a firewall would probably be a good example of an IPS, but it 53:54.400 --> 53:56.340 all depends how well you tune the firewall. 53:57.420 --> 53:57.820 Right. 53:57.820 --> 54:02.140 Well, the difference with a firewall versus an IPS is that they work on two different 54:02.140 --> 54:02.520 layers. 54:02.520 --> 54:06.600 The IPS is actually going to look on software. 54:06.880 --> 54:09.960 Software layer, whereas the firewall is more of a hardware layer. 54:10.200 --> 54:11.220 Exactly, exactly. 54:11.440 --> 54:15.940 So, that's the problem of the software issue of whether it's going to be smart enough to 54:15.940 --> 54:20.160 detect mal packets or bad packets versus normal packets. 54:20.380 --> 54:20.560 Right. 54:20.740 --> 54:25.520 And a lot of it's learning, too, so you have to spend time tuning the software, and that 54:25.520 --> 54:28.000 can take weeks, if not months, at a time. 54:28.000 --> 54:33.640 Again, and as it updates, and the world changes, you have to also re-teach and re-update it, 54:33.640 --> 54:34.860 so it's a constant maintenance. 54:35.280 --> 54:35.520 Right. 54:36.020 --> 54:36.420 Absolutely. 54:38.900 --> 54:44.680 I think it'd be well worth it if you had the time and maybe the staff to do it. 54:45.780 --> 54:49.120 You know, but the thing is, it's even more fundamental than that. 54:49.700 --> 54:51.440 See, this seems like a... 54:51.440 --> 54:52.420 I mean, I guess it's good. 54:52.500 --> 54:53.740 Every attempt that these... 54:53.740 --> 54:58.460 I mean, they're potentially good, but the bottom line is, and let's go back to your 54:58.460 --> 54:59.340 example of Telnet. 55:00.400 --> 55:02.460 Okay, you want to lock down Telnet. 55:02.560 --> 55:06.480 There's no need for people to be coming in during a Telnet, so you put the IPS to watch 55:06.480 --> 55:06.780 for that. 55:07.080 --> 55:07.660 Well, guess what? 55:07.700 --> 55:10.380 There's a much easier, simpler, and better solution. 55:11.620 --> 55:13.380 Turn off Telnet. 55:13.960 --> 55:14.280 Right. 55:14.340 --> 55:20.280 You still turn off Telnet, but sometimes I'd still like to know if people are trying Telnet. 55:21.440 --> 55:23.760 I mean, sometimes I'm anal like that, but... 55:23.760 --> 55:25.060 Yeah, you know, no, I agree. 55:25.140 --> 55:25.880 Actually, I do, too. 55:25.980 --> 55:26.540 You're absolutely right. 55:26.580 --> 55:28.260 I do like to see what people are trying. 55:29.280 --> 55:31.540 They may not get there, but yeah, that's a good... 55:31.540 --> 55:35.760 And that's another point I had put on the notes here that I didn't know if we were going 55:35.760 --> 55:41.220 to go into, but this is where I see a fantastic use for a honeypot. 55:42.340 --> 55:43.760 You intercept these people. 55:44.160 --> 55:44.880 You turn off... 55:44.880 --> 55:51.420 You can either turn off the Telnet, or you can have a redirector or a simulation or something 55:51.420 --> 55:53.180 on there to pretend to be Telnet. 55:53.280 --> 55:54.420 There's plenty of those out there. 55:54.580 --> 55:54.700 Right. 55:55.040 --> 55:56.160 You know, there's plenty of... 55:56.160 --> 55:58.040 You know, people think they're all over these... 55:58.040 --> 55:58.420 What is it? 55:58.440 --> 55:59.020 Back orifice. 55:59.580 --> 56:03.280 They think they found a system with a back orifice Trojan on it, and they're controlling 56:03.280 --> 56:03.600 something. 56:03.600 --> 56:08.700 No, there are back orifice fake Trojans that are nothing but entrapment software that will 56:08.700 --> 56:14.320 watch you, see what you're doing and where you're coming from, and they know everything 56:14.320 --> 56:17.600 about you, and you think you're doing one thing, and you're actually right in the middle 56:17.600 --> 56:19.540 of this big honeypot, and they're watching everything you do. 56:19.780 --> 56:21.300 This is a great example of that. 56:21.540 --> 56:26.660 If someone tries to Telnet into this example we just made up, you can have it redirected to 56:26.660 --> 56:27.140 a honeypot. 56:27.280 --> 56:31.820 They think that they are Telneted into Amazon.com, when in actuality, they're not. 56:31.860 --> 56:32.800 They've been sent to a honeypot. 56:32.800 --> 56:39.540 This is exactly where I think IPS could work hand-in-hand, or even IDS, but not so much. 56:39.600 --> 56:42.900 And the IPS could work hand-in-hand to route things through a honeypot. 56:43.020 --> 56:48.140 So not only are you preventing them from getting into your system, which is ideally the point 56:48.140 --> 56:51.320 of it, but you're also able to watch and see what's going on. 56:51.780 --> 56:55.200 Now, you get into kind of a privacy issue there, but... 56:55.200 --> 56:59.460 And I might get hate mail for saying this on the air, but if you're trying to break into 56:59.460 --> 57:00.700 a server, I'm sorry. 57:00.880 --> 57:02.300 You kind of brought that on yourself. 57:02.480 --> 57:03.680 That's the way I look at it. 57:03.700 --> 57:07.060 I don't believe in that type of hacking and that type of action. 57:07.320 --> 57:10.160 So, you know, I don't really have a lot of sympathy for that kind of... 57:10.160 --> 57:10.340 Right. 57:10.380 --> 57:12.540 You'll probably start up a small crusade with that. 57:12.700 --> 57:12.980 Yeah. 57:13.080 --> 57:13.360 I know. 57:13.440 --> 57:14.500 I'll probably get some mail. 57:14.620 --> 57:16.320 But, hey, we'll read it on the air next week. 57:16.320 --> 57:19.420 And, actually, I think that is a good ending point. 57:19.960 --> 57:20.620 Unless you had any... 57:20.620 --> 57:22.160 Did you have anything else you wanted to bring up? 57:23.440 --> 57:26.580 I don't want to cut you short on the IDS if you had time to say any other... 57:26.580 --> 57:28.600 Because, again, I know you've worked with it quite a bit. 57:29.240 --> 57:30.180 Well, a little bit, right? 57:30.440 --> 57:30.920 A little bit. 57:31.060 --> 57:34.300 And all I say is that you don't have to go full-blown honeypot. 57:34.700 --> 57:39.840 There are other pieces of software out there that will sort of sit there and look at you 57:39.840 --> 57:41.180 and just kind of see what you're doing. 57:41.760 --> 57:45.320 But at the same time, it's not quite as robust. 57:46.320 --> 57:46.640 Right. 57:47.820 --> 57:48.140 Right. 57:49.660 --> 57:50.120 All right. 57:50.200 --> 57:50.960 Well, you know what? 57:51.000 --> 57:53.700 We covered a lot of good material today. 57:54.420 --> 57:55.300 A lot of good stuff. 57:55.340 --> 57:56.620 You are very good on the show. 57:57.140 --> 57:57.700 I appreciate it. 57:57.740 --> 57:58.320 Very good. 57:58.400 --> 57:58.860 Very good. 58:00.240 --> 58:03.720 You know, and since we're at the close of the show and it's time for me to get out shouts, 58:03.980 --> 58:06.940 I'm going to shout out to you coming in and helping me out at the last minute. 58:07.040 --> 58:09.980 We are recording this just before we stream the show. 58:09.980 --> 58:13.580 So as soon as we're done, I've got to mix this, start streaming it up tonight. 58:13.840 --> 58:16.020 So thank you very much for the last minute bailout. 58:16.020 --> 58:16.960 I appreciate that. 58:17.460 --> 58:18.960 Did you have anybody you wanted to shout out to? 58:19.040 --> 58:20.720 You got open air here. 58:20.880 --> 58:21.840 Anybody you wanted to say hi? 58:21.900 --> 58:22.800 Anybody you wanted to shout out? 58:23.360 --> 58:23.980 Not yet. 58:24.220 --> 58:25.460 I'll see what happens next week. 58:25.680 --> 58:26.140 Not yet. 58:26.260 --> 58:26.600 All right. 58:28.360 --> 58:28.760 All right. 58:28.760 --> 58:34.460 And for those people who are going to email me and tell me that I'm wrong, we have people 58:34.460 --> 58:37.060 who pride themselves on being black hat hackers. 58:37.380 --> 58:38.780 They want that. 58:39.040 --> 58:43.440 So, you know, if anybody wants to email, by all means, I am not right all the time, wrong 58:43.440 --> 58:44.060 all the time. 58:44.060 --> 58:45.860 And most of this stuff is my opinion. 58:46.320 --> 58:49.460 If you disagree with it, if you agree with it, if you want to tell me to go stick my 58:49.460 --> 58:52.160 head up my ass, letters at binrev.com. 58:52.280 --> 58:54.380 As we always say, you can email me about anything. 58:55.260 --> 58:57.940 And tonight's music is from Rocket Productions. 58:58.120 --> 59:00.000 It's called All Systems Go. 59:00.840 --> 59:02.240 And that's it. 59:02.360 --> 59:05.480 So we close the show every week the same way. 59:05.480 --> 59:06.960 We will see you next week. 59:07.040 --> 59:07.820 Same hack time. 59:08.280 --> 59:08.900 Same hack channel. 59:09.320 --> 59:09.980 Peace out. 59:32.320 --> 59:34.320 Peace out. 59:34.320 --> 59:36.320 Peace out. 59:38.900 --> 01:00:04.320 Peace out. 01:00:04.320 --> 01:00:06.320 Peace out. 01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:31.740 Peace out. 01:00:31.740 --> 01:00:33.740 Peace out. 01:00:33.740 --> 01:00:35.740 Peace out. 01:01:03.740 --> 01:01:33.720 Thank you. 01:01:33.740 --> 01:02:03.720 Thank you. 01:02:03.740 --> 01:02:33.720 Thank you. 01:02:33.740 --> 01:03:03.720 Thank you.