WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:23.380 Get ready to rock the planet, get ready to rock the planet, the digital dog park presents 00:23.380 --> 00:26.780 binary revolution radio, now launch the base 00:30.000 --> 00:50.640 Get ready to rock the planet, get ready to rock the planet, get ready to rock the planet 00:50.640 --> 00:55.400 Hack the system, hackers unite 00:55.400 --> 01:07.420 Get ready to hack the planet 01:07.420 --> 01:11.680 Hack the planet 01:11.680 --> 01:16.240 Hack the system, hackers unite 01:16.240 --> 01:24.880 five, Hier тебе 01:24.880 --> 01:25.240 Go up, go up go up 01:25.240 --> 01:25.580 Up, go up, go up 01:25.580 --> 01:27.640 up, go up 01:27.640 --> 01:27.960 up, go up 01:27.960 --> 01:28.820 Black, go up 01:28.820 --> 01:30.640 Up, go up 01:30.640 --> 01:32.900 Pick up, go up 01:32.900 --> 01:34.120 Big. 01:34.120 --> 01:35.480 Game track the system 01:35.480 --> 01:37.220 Go up, go up 01:37.220 --> 01:39.120 Work the planet 01:39.120 --> 01:41.100 Back where's the world 01:41.100 --> 01:41.980 So quick,го up 01:41.980 --> 01:49.660 And the finish 01:49.660 --> 02:00.860 Kids night 02:00.860 --> 02:02.940 Actors unite 02:02.940 --> 02:08.920 Actors unite 02:11.980 --> 02:13.840 Act the planet 02:13.840 --> 02:17.460 Act the system 02:17.460 --> 02:27.560 Get ready to act the system 02:27.560 --> 02:31.200 Get ready to act the planet 02:41.980 --> 02:45.620 Act the planet 02:45.620 --> 02:48.640 Get ready 02:48.640 --> 02:51.100 Act the planet 02:51.100 --> 02:51.980 Act the planet 02:51.980 --> 03:03.840 Act the planet 03:03.840 --> 03:04.760 Act the planet 03:04.760 --> 03:12.620 Act the planet 03:12.620 --> 03:16.860 Act the planet 03:16.860 --> 03:18.500 Act the planet 03:18.500 --> 03:20.320 Act the planet 03:20.320 --> 03:30.400 Act the planet 03:30.400 --> 03:32.720 Act the planet 03:32.720 --> 03:46.760 you are listening to binary revolution radio revolution will be digitized 03:46.760 --> 03:57.760 this is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers 03:57.760 --> 04:04.480 to the hackers and the crackers i see in binary i speak source code step on my toes i'll post a 04:04.480 --> 04:10.240 million jpegs of you in a fag pose in your digital stance getting firewalled ho because i'm riding 04:10.240 --> 04:17.020 the net in my six foe i was a dick with my 56 now with my cable i'm able to get that stable on the 04:17.020 --> 04:23.280 out my name is ace and i'm a leo on the digital highway my name is neo and i'm a hero in a flash 04:23.280 --> 04:28.840 i'll school you on burning dream caps you need some iso let me through my hard drive rifle our 04:28.840 --> 04:35.100 exchange you could never stifle and a digital hug you just caught the love bug i bootlegged your cd 04:35.100 --> 04:41.220 i caused the fight between un and jc your cg it's all gonna be free whether we take it by force or 04:41.220 --> 04:46.320 we take it nicely you feel that rattling your bones when i tell you we just hacked out jones 04:46.320 --> 04:50.740 and nasdaq leaves you flat on your back because i am he who loves to hack and crack 04:50.740 --> 04:56.620 because i am he who loves to hack and crack this is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals 04:56.620 --> 05:04.200 serial codes source code isos rams sips sips this is dedicated to the hackers and crack 05:04.200 --> 05:13.320 welcome to binary revolution radio episode number 15 i am your mc the man in the center stage the man 05:13.320 --> 05:19.400 with the top hat direct your attention to the three ring circus behind me where i am joined this week by 05:19.400 --> 05:28.060 the spectacular amazing voodoo hal in the house what's up everybody back again had a good episode 05:28.060 --> 05:34.520 last time and had some topics that i thought you and i could expand on again this week so um back on 05:34.520 --> 05:40.480 again hopefully more often as well i think we probably because this is one of the topics that i think you 05:40.480 --> 05:47.100 and i both can agree on and talk about together um jump right into the email that we got this week at 05:47.100 --> 05:55.480 least one um we got an email from lock um and actually about it was after the show after the 05:55.480 --> 06:03.980 last show that you and i did together sent us an email um and of a question that frankly we get a lot 06:03.980 --> 06:14.180 at least i i get a lot um the long and short of the question is the old college versus certification 06:14.180 --> 06:21.340 question should i get a college degree is it better to go to trade or technical school is it better to 06:21.340 --> 06:28.520 just get the certifications and stuff like that um and we've been through this in the forums before i've 06:28.520 --> 06:34.060 had personal emails to me in the past asking this question and i thought it'd be good to have you on 06:34.060 --> 06:39.620 the show and and talk about it open up the show with this topic because it's very obviously a lot of 06:39.620 --> 06:45.040 people have this question and don't understand people who haven't been in the tech industry 06:45.040 --> 06:51.980 so i think maybe we could clear clear it up once and for all so to speak or at least give our opinions 06:51.980 --> 07:02.680 on it not that that's necessarily the end all be all um i guess you know i think why don't you start 07:02.680 --> 07:08.860 with this because i think you and i probably will agree on this pretty well but for if it comes down 07:08.860 --> 07:15.440 to a simple question what's what's which choice would you make coming out of high school would you 07:15.440 --> 07:24.400 start into college in a computer field or would you put money into going on a certification spree so to 07:24.400 --> 07:30.600 speak well personally i i believe that college holds a lot more weight than certifications do um 07:30.600 --> 07:38.340 you've been in the industry a while so you know basically before the dot-com flop um certifications 07:38.340 --> 07:43.820 were heavily weighted by just about everybody and that's what was kind of scary um and that also 07:43.820 --> 07:48.420 created these places where you could go 10 grand down and you come out with a certification you may 07:48.420 --> 07:53.860 not know shit about what you're talking about but you've got a certification and i think now that's 07:53.860 --> 07:58.780 caused so much problem that certifications aren't really worth that much of anything without a degree 07:58.780 --> 08:05.180 to back it yeah it it really it is true i mean if you've never taken a certification 08:05.180 --> 08:13.780 it basically goes like this you you will pay for a class kind of similar to you as the same thing 08:13.780 --> 08:22.020 you would do at college except these classes are very much oh gosh i can't even think of a good adjective 08:22.020 --> 08:28.320 to describe they're very linear very focused and very linear linear in the subject matter 08:28.320 --> 08:37.680 um they will give you a book or two that are start at chapter one page one and just start reading 08:37.680 --> 08:43.480 straight through the book now they will sometimes have classes to go along with it uh the majority 08:43.480 --> 08:48.760 of the ones i've seen are for the most part self-taught uh you may come into a class every week or every 08:48.760 --> 08:55.480 two weeks with questions or something like that but for the most part it's an all on you so um 08:55.480 --> 08:59.560 college is like that too i mean it's very much different than high school you're going into college 08:59.560 --> 09:03.980 you're going into the real world everything is on you you're not going to have teachers there the 09:03.980 --> 09:08.060 next day to say you know where's your homework you know where's that assignment i gave you 09:08.060 --> 09:12.780 it's going to be all on you to study either one of these but even worse than the certification 09:12.780 --> 09:18.760 field you have a tendency of putting that book down when you get home and um the way it works is on a 09:18.760 --> 09:26.180 set date two or three months later you will go in and you will take a test that is very literal 09:26.180 --> 09:32.580 and in my opinion does nothing more than test your memorization skills from what you went over in 09:32.580 --> 09:39.300 those books i've met a lot of people that have certification and they can ramble off and memorize 09:39.300 --> 09:45.480 every port of every whatever but then you try to ask them what it's used for or what that means 09:45.480 --> 09:53.100 and and stuff like that and they they really don't know so there's good knowledge to be had there but i 09:53.100 --> 10:00.040 don't think it can stand alone well i think higher education also helps for understanding of what you're 10:00.040 --> 10:06.600 talking about um most of the certification classes seem to be pretty test centric um they want to teach 10:06.600 --> 10:11.180 you how to pass the test it's all about money um as long as you know how to pass the test that's all 10:11.180 --> 10:16.260 they care about they don't care if you know the subject matter down to the core they just want you 10:16.260 --> 10:21.600 to pass that test and academia i mean that's the great part you may you may start up slowly and you 10:21.600 --> 10:26.280 may build on that but you understand what you're doing you're not just left in the world with these 10:26.280 --> 10:31.540 certain facts about how to do something and not really know well what do these do well ideally 10:31.540 --> 10:38.140 hopefully and therein comes in the factor of quality of schools and quality of education 10:38.140 --> 10:42.560 there is a difference between one college and another some are good some are not 10:42.560 --> 10:48.680 you know and instructors within the college there are some colleges are very bad but they will still 10:48.680 --> 10:57.820 have good instructors so um it is a an issue of balance like everything else um i know a lot of people 10:57.820 --> 11:04.160 i've spoken to hate college or have hated college in the past because they didn't feel feel that it 11:04.160 --> 11:13.140 taught them enough application college in my experience is very much teaching theory teaching 11:13.140 --> 11:21.120 fundamentals teaching a foundation and basics for which you to understand for which you are to build on 11:21.120 --> 11:29.540 to expand on that knowledge so to me it really is a natural progression from high school to college 11:29.540 --> 11:34.080 if that if that is what you're going to do if that's your plans or your you know what you're thinking 11:34.080 --> 11:38.800 about go into college and you're going to build on the foundation from high school i know you don't 11:38.800 --> 11:43.840 might not believe it right now and you're thinking you're trying to escape from high school but believe 11:43.840 --> 11:47.580 it or not you are going to move on in college and they're going to teach you fundamentals and basics 11:47.580 --> 11:53.920 and i'm you know assuming most people listening to this are going to be engineering majors computer 11:53.920 --> 11:58.920 science computer information systems majors you're going to move in and you're going to start with 11:58.920 --> 12:05.300 very basic stuff your first year or two you're going to be very um frustrated with college because 12:05.300 --> 12:10.720 they're going to go back and teach you fundamental networking and fundamental programming concepts and 12:10.720 --> 12:16.840 fundamental operating system interaction that you already know but they need to reaffirm that and 12:16.840 --> 12:20.800 reassure that you know those fundamentals as it moves into some of the higher level classes 12:20.800 --> 12:30.500 um like i said with the certification it's memorize this and we will test you on it and give you a 12:30.500 --> 12:38.240 uh a sort of a certificate so if you don't like the idea of you doing a lot of theory and not enough 12:38.240 --> 12:46.420 application you might want to combine the two because again you and i we we've been in the technical 12:46.420 --> 12:56.880 field we've been in the industry for a while and i know absolutely undoubtedly for a fact that 12:56.880 --> 13:06.880 a college degree opens the door definitely it absolutely does i mean it may be my opinion on 13:06.880 --> 13:12.460 what's more valuable or what might be appropriate to you is your decision to make but i can almost state 13:12.460 --> 13:17.860 almost as a matter of fact that without a college degree you can have all the certificates in the 13:17.860 --> 13:23.560 world but without that college degree they don't know that you have the foundation 13:23.560 --> 13:30.380 that they need to get the job done they know that you can memorize very well because you've memorized 13:30.380 --> 13:36.960 for that certification and how long ago did you get that because most majority of them only last a 13:36.960 --> 13:43.720 limited time you know some people will cram i know people that just blew me away they would spend one 13:43.720 --> 13:49.020 night studying the night before the test and memorize everything come in and ace the test and 13:49.020 --> 13:53.560 then the next day no joke they can't tell you the first thing about what they just studied 13:53.560 --> 13:59.680 yeah i've seen that quite a few times as well so and that's just the next day when you got these 13:59.680 --> 14:05.060 certificates you know a year later six months later even you know if you don't use all that kind of 14:05.060 --> 14:10.460 stuff you're not going to remember a lot of it so the value of them is you know it's hit and miss 14:10.460 --> 14:15.240 are they a good thing absolutely education in any way shape or form is a very good thing 14:15.240 --> 14:23.880 but personally my opinion and my advice and please feel free to correct me or disagree with me but my 14:23.880 --> 14:29.120 advice is if you're coming out of high school or even if you're not even if you're just considering 14:29.120 --> 14:33.060 going back to high school or start or going back to college or starting college for the first time 14:33.060 --> 14:38.100 or you know you have these options in front of you i recommend going to college even even if it's 14:38.100 --> 14:43.400 just for an associate's degree a two-year degree if nothing else at least go get that 14:43.400 --> 14:51.380 and then at the either afterwards or in best case scenario if you can afford the the time to do it 14:51.380 --> 14:56.840 take a certificate certification class or two while you're in college treat it as though it's a fifth or 14:56.840 --> 15:02.560 sixth class that you're taking and when you come out you will have a college degree and certification i mean 15:02.560 --> 15:09.540 a plus certification is you know not that difficult um there is a lot of memorization to it don't get 15:09.540 --> 15:15.640 me wrong it's not simple but um i think you will be learning a good combination of theory and 15:15.640 --> 15:21.360 application and you'll come out better in the long run definitely more complete yeah because 15:21.360 --> 15:26.620 majority of jobs are going to say first and foremost the minimum requirements you must have a bachelor's 15:26.620 --> 15:31.280 degree you must have an associate's degree or equivalent something like that and certificate 15:31.280 --> 15:37.320 certification will not substitute for that equivalent experience might but again it's hard to get that 15:37.320 --> 15:42.160 experience without that degree in the first place so it's one it's a catch-22 definitely want to get a 15:42.160 --> 15:51.200 degree and get your foot in the door um tech schools and trade schools are very risky um they usually have 15:51.200 --> 15:58.040 job placement services that are very helpful they can put you directly in a job as you graduate 15:58.040 --> 16:04.400 because employers know that you've learned very specific things that they want and they need and 16:04.400 --> 16:09.280 have relationships um they can get your foot in the door and get you a job and build up some 16:09.280 --> 16:14.880 experience that later on when you try to go for a job that wants a bachelor's degree or four years of 16:14.880 --> 16:20.800 experience you can cut you have a little bit more wiggle room there you can always say no i went to a 16:20.800 --> 16:26.960 trade school but i've been in the industry for four years or eight years or whatever so it that also is a 16:26.960 --> 16:31.160 good option you might consider a technical or trade school but i still say the number one option would 16:31.160 --> 16:36.820 be a college degree yeah definitely i've actually got a family member who went to one of the larger 16:36.820 --> 16:43.360 trade schools um i'll keep the name out just in case but for thirty thousand dollars he ends up 16:43.360 --> 16:50.460 getting an associate's degree and has absolutely no idea what he's doing none but i mean i guess it 16:50.460 --> 16:56.140 depends on the school right and yeah and then again and you know don't belittle the fact that um 16:56.140 --> 17:02.280 the choice of school that you go to makes a difference um i know mute is taking it very 17:02.280 --> 17:07.100 seriously and has been putting applications and congratulations to him he's got been accepted to 17:07.100 --> 17:12.460 a couple different schools so he can kind of make some good choices um that's not to say there's anything 17:12.460 --> 17:20.560 wrong i went to uh the first school i went to i i don't want to get into my whole personal whining or 17:20.560 --> 17:26.500 whatever but i started off at a community college for whatever reason financial reasons and i got a 17:26.500 --> 17:34.280 better education there then i ended up going to a four-year institution now i've been since then to a 17:34.280 --> 17:39.360 couple other four-year institutions here and there but i had a great community college when i went up 17:39.360 --> 17:43.760 there's nothing wrong with a community college if anything i could recommend that to people because 17:43.760 --> 17:47.740 like i said when you go in and start taking classes the first thing you take are going to be 17:47.740 --> 17:53.900 fundamentals and basics everybody has to take english one writing 101 whatever they want to call it 17:53.900 --> 17:58.760 english 101 writing 101 composition 101 whatever they want to call it you're going to have to take that 17:58.760 --> 18:05.040 no matter what it might be a good idea especially and very very economical to go to a community college 18:05.040 --> 18:09.240 and take some of those classes make sure they'll transfer over to your college of 18:09.240 --> 18:13.300 choice when you're ready but take a couple of those basic classes maybe the intro to computer 18:13.300 --> 18:17.180 classes and stuff that you know is going to be simple and transfer it over and you'll save yourself 18:17.180 --> 18:21.960 a lot of money in the process and you'll get a good feeling good introduction to college smaller 18:21.960 --> 18:28.740 classes you know it's there's a lot of important decisions to be made at this point in your life 18:28.740 --> 18:35.060 and um don't belittle it don't belittle it my advice is um check out local colleges make a decision on 18:35.060 --> 18:39.700 what direction you want to go and certification should really be secondary in your mind i think 18:39.700 --> 18:45.340 oh man boy we jumped into a serious topic to start the show off how'd that happen 18:45.340 --> 18:51.560 at least we got it started on the right foot yeah i hope so that's you know that's serious i really 18:51.560 --> 18:56.220 don't want to belittle it that is a very serious question and i get it a lot and that's my answer 18:56.220 --> 19:02.280 college is first and foremost in my opinion and dual and i have talked about this briefly on the show 19:02.280 --> 19:06.540 before you and i have now talked about this we are people who've been in the industry in the forums 19:06.540 --> 19:11.980 we've talked about you know take it from people who have been there you know other people that go to 19:11.980 --> 19:17.420 a tech school or go to a certification classes and go to college they're in the middle of it and 19:17.420 --> 19:21.560 they're kind of biased they kind of are not sure how it's going to affect them because they haven't 19:21.560 --> 19:27.040 been out of it yet we've been out of it we've been there we've been to colleges we've been to 19:27.040 --> 19:31.600 universities we've been to trade and tech schools we've been to certification seminars and classes 19:31.600 --> 19:38.460 i know the weight that all of them carry and after the fact you've heard my opinion so we won't beat 19:38.460 --> 19:46.280 that horse to death um i'll move on to some uh some more housekeeping stuff um when you're listening 19:46.280 --> 19:55.040 to this hopefully knock on wood hopefully um i will have updated binrev.com to hopefully the final 19:55.040 --> 20:00.740 steady version where i won't have to be doing this maintenance every single weekend and changes and 20:00.740 --> 20:06.300 updates as as the regular listeners know i've been slowly moving things over to this new host 20:06.300 --> 20:12.000 i've got most everything moved over at the same time i was taking some stuff off of stankdawg.com 20:12.000 --> 20:18.520 and moving them over to binrev i want it to be the one central place for everything and um i am pretty 20:18.520 --> 20:23.320 much done with that the last and biggest headache of all of them was the forums itself were the forums 20:23.320 --> 20:31.080 themselves so i did that this past weekend and they seem to be up and stable um i will change the links 20:31.080 --> 20:39.080 on the site i will add the gallery to the site it should be done again knock on wood by the time you're 20:39.080 --> 20:46.380 listening to this so that's what i have been doing um i put up a redirect page on the old stankdawg.com 20:46.380 --> 20:50.960 anybody has links to that um it's going to come up it's not going to automatically redirect you 20:50.960 --> 20:56.380 okay you're going to have to click on it i might change that i'm not sure but um if you if you go 20:56.380 --> 21:01.920 to the index.php it does automatically redirect you so anyway i'm going to be redirected but if you 21:01.920 --> 21:08.240 can change any links going to stankdawg.com forums um please leave links to stankdawg.com if you wish i 21:08.240 --> 21:15.360 would still love to have that but maybe add one to the binrev.com site as well um and that i guess 21:15.360 --> 21:22.120 it's a good segue into what i've been doing this week because i basically just told you um adding 21:22.120 --> 21:30.120 all this stuff to the site and updating the site and everything um i put up a couple weeks ago i 21:30.120 --> 21:34.660 mentioned on the show that we i finally put up the gallery uh kind of a little project that i thought 21:34.660 --> 21:40.320 would be kind of fun and um that still needs some organization done to it but more importantly than 21:40.320 --> 21:47.560 that i have a security issue on that as well um and it's not such a bad thing really i mean 21:47.560 --> 21:53.200 i knew going into it that the potential existed i was going to basically i created some forums 21:53.200 --> 21:58.080 i i guess i shouldn't call them forums galleries is what they're called i'm not quite comfortable 21:58.080 --> 22:03.820 with that term but i created some galleries that are owned by the admin and then within those galleries 22:03.820 --> 22:12.320 i was i intentionally opened it up to let everyone have read write access to that so i my envision was 22:12.320 --> 22:20.380 that anybody who wants to can create sub galleries and upload pictures to those galleries and um you 22:20.380 --> 22:29.100 know add to the site add content to it and um share with everyone and the people in the forums i trust 22:29.100 --> 22:33.300 you know i know some people have been having some fun with it lately and and i don't mind that at all i 22:33.300 --> 22:38.700 really don't so if anybody misunderstands that but what it did realize what it did open my eyes to was 22:38.700 --> 22:44.040 that the people in the forums are going to play with it that's fine but there's also nothing stopping 22:44.040 --> 22:51.660 anybody from coming outside of of the doghouse anybody coming from outside of our little circle 22:51.660 --> 22:57.740 and coming in there doing the same thing and they might not be so playful they might not be so um 22:57.740 --> 23:04.560 um they might not have that hacker ethic of not destroying the place where you hang out or not 23:04.560 --> 23:10.400 destroying you know things that that other people are using so i'm faced with a dilemma now of how to 23:10.400 --> 23:16.800 handle this i could lock the whole thing down and create accounts and stuff like we do with the 23:16.800 --> 23:25.520 forums but unfortunately the software is not programmed to do that and yes i could write a lot of 23:25.520 --> 23:30.960 a lot of routines and stuff to do that but it's just very time consuming and i'm basically 23:30.960 --> 23:37.660 writing the software for them or writing a whole module and plug-in for it and it's just way way too 23:37.660 --> 23:44.220 time consuming so i got to come up with a way to allow people to put posts in there and upload posts 23:44.220 --> 23:50.220 maybe i should put like a holding area i mean have you been following this do you know i mean do you have 23:50.220 --> 23:54.900 any advice on how i should i was thinking of maybe putting a holding area that everybody could upload to 23:54.900 --> 24:01.300 and then only the admin or only a few select users could move them to the proper forums you know 24:01.300 --> 24:05.700 what i'm saying right i was thinking the same way like uh with some ftp sites do with an upload 24:05.700 --> 24:11.340 directory and that's the only thing you have right access to which makes sense in a way um it does 24:11.340 --> 24:15.840 bring depending on how many pictures get posted you know it does bring quite a bit of work onto you 24:15.840 --> 24:21.020 or some of the some of the other moderators right but i think that would be the safest way to do it 24:21.020 --> 24:24.920 yeah it would but yeah you're right it would be a lot of maintenance for me 24:24.920 --> 24:30.700 and when people post or upload pictures they like to at the same time go over to the forums and say 24:30.700 --> 24:35.940 hey look at my screenshot i just posted here's the link well then i'm going to go behind them and move 24:35.940 --> 24:40.200 it which i did earlier this week and forgot to tell the person or forgot to update their link in the 24:40.200 --> 24:45.700 forum so start moving stuff around and you can't really rely on the links and that's a problem too so 24:45.700 --> 24:51.180 it's it's like um you know there's no happy solution here so i'm going to be thinking this 24:51.180 --> 24:55.380 through for the next week or so if anybody has any suggestions or ideas i'd love to hear them 24:55.380 --> 25:00.940 um maybe gallery is not the software package that i should be using 25:00.940 --> 25:05.960 um i might also be looking for something if i can find another similar package that supports 25:05.960 --> 25:12.260 user accounts and therefore accountability um maybe i'll just try a different software package 25:12.260 --> 25:19.380 all right so that's an option too maybe if you had a way to uh for instance rather than just 25:19.380 --> 25:23.120 requiring registered users because obviously if somebody wanted to do something you can come on 25:23.120 --> 25:28.920 and register and post or post images away maybe if you could do it based on user count or i'm sorry 25:28.920 --> 25:33.780 post count so for instance if someone had more than 20 posts and you know that they're active on the 25:33.780 --> 25:38.620 list but i don't really know how that would how the other people would feel about that yeah and i 25:38.620 --> 25:43.960 again i could write that i could i could check against the forums database there is a table with 25:43.960 --> 25:48.840 the username and stuff like that and i could query against that validate authenticate against that 25:48.840 --> 25:57.460 and um but i mean again that that entails writing a module to do that and and then plugging that into 25:57.460 --> 26:02.740 the existing gallery software right so that is not exactly a small undertaking even though it seems 26:02.740 --> 26:07.640 like simple straightforward software it just shows pictures it's not never never as simple as it looks 26:07.640 --> 26:13.780 what is it written in php it is majority of it is php but another thing i was surprised and a bit 26:13.780 --> 26:20.340 disappointed that was that it doesn't even use um i was expecting it to be a mysql database or post 26:20.340 --> 26:29.240 gre or something it doesn't it's basically um a flat text file a flat file with some settings on it and 26:29.240 --> 26:36.920 um kind of on the fly data uh directory reading and stuff so it's not exactly as deep and complex as i had 26:36.920 --> 26:45.620 hoped but yeah the majority of it is written in php so i like it a lot though i do like the 26:45.620 --> 26:49.080 functionality i like having the pictures when people have uploaded pictures of their desktops 26:49.080 --> 26:57.140 some screenshots stuff like that very cool stuff to look at um and i think it was decoder had said 26:57.140 --> 27:01.400 you know he might have some clip art to put up i was thinking of making a clip art gallery because we 27:01.400 --> 27:06.340 could use it for the magazine we could use it for anybody writing reports for school and stuff like 27:06.340 --> 27:10.800 that you got clip art that you can put in there would be great you know it's not just photography 27:10.800 --> 27:16.040 and pictures it can be you know pretty much anything we want to upload so um so far i'm cool and i think 27:16.040 --> 27:20.040 it has a lot of potential i'm very cool with it i hope it uh i hope it grows i hope people start 27:20.040 --> 27:25.180 taking advantage of it i think once i put the link up on the nav bar so there's much more easily 27:25.180 --> 27:30.080 accessible and much more visible because right now it's out of sight out of mind so people don't 27:30.080 --> 27:36.600 visit it a lot but i think once we get it up it could be very very cool um another housekeeping this 27:36.600 --> 27:42.780 is kind of a big one actually i got an email this week from rant radio and rant radio is making a 27:42.780 --> 27:50.360 pretty big change in their structure um we'll give more details later but the short version 27:50.360 --> 27:56.100 well you can go to you can go to rant radio.com and check it out for yourself but the short version 27:56.100 --> 28:00.220 is that they're going to split their channels up they're going to split to the rant radio 28:00.220 --> 28:04.220 industrial channel they're going to basically they're going to separate the music from the talk 28:04.220 --> 28:11.340 shows so i guess i guess it might it probably is frustrating if somebody wants to come listen to 28:11.340 --> 28:17.920 um the music and all of a sudden we interrupt with binary revolution radio as we do uh every tuesday 28:17.920 --> 28:24.280 night then it could be frustrating for them and at the same time people who are tuning in to listen 28:24.280 --> 28:27.680 to the radio shows whichever shows they're listening to there's a lot of great shows on 28:27.680 --> 28:33.500 rant radio they might not be a fan of that particular genre of music so i think it's actually 28:33.500 --> 28:38.840 kind of a good idea they're going to separate the talk shows i guess for lack of a better term i hate 28:38.840 --> 28:43.340 saying that it makes me sound like oprah or something but separate the talk shows of the 28:43.340 --> 28:49.220 discussion the analysis whatever to separate the ranting the good shows um to a different channel 28:49.220 --> 28:53.820 separating good music to a different channel so people can stay tuned in to one or the other 28:53.820 --> 28:58.360 and uh one of the things one of their goals too is to be able to replay the shows more often 28:58.360 --> 29:06.980 so as soon as this comes to be i will of course announce it and put up new instructions i don't 29:06.980 --> 29:11.780 know how the servers are going to change if if at all so we'll address all that when it happens 29:11.780 --> 29:17.900 um but i wanted to kind of put everybody let it put everybody on notice let them know that that's coming 29:17.900 --> 29:27.900 um let's see um not that anybody cares but i got an a on my cyber law test i've been talking about 29:27.900 --> 29:36.160 my cyber law class lately um i it's kind of funny because one of the topics one of the biggest topics 29:36.160 --> 29:42.540 we constantly talk about is copyright law intellectual property law in general so before i go giving away 29:42.540 --> 29:46.380 any of the questions or information on the test i'm going to i'm going to touch base with my instructor 29:46.380 --> 29:52.760 and get permission to use that stuff on the air or maybe on the site um it's a four question essay 29:52.760 --> 29:58.660 test it was very interesting and very interesting and um i think it's something that actually the 29:58.660 --> 30:03.640 listeners would be interested to know there's some surprising information so i might uh share that 30:03.640 --> 30:10.320 and um what else oh or also i i probably should have mentioned this last week i mentioned going to 30:10.320 --> 30:17.680 halloween horror nights in orlando um but on the way it was a very it was a very fun trip because we i 30:17.680 --> 30:23.220 did not rush we just took our time driving up there and we stopped at all the rest stops along the way 30:23.220 --> 30:28.280 and the truck stops and stuff like that you can find a lot of interesting stuff and we stopped at some 30:28.280 --> 30:34.280 of the rest stops along the way and there's a kiosk at pretty much every one of them um i do not 30:34.280 --> 30:39.040 know the company i did not write down the name of the company these places are packed there are so many 30:39.040 --> 30:45.380 people on this on this uh highways and stuff that this place is just packed with people so we didn't 30:45.380 --> 30:52.280 have a whole lot of luxury to play too much but um basically through the kiosk you could order 30:52.280 --> 30:57.620 tickets to disney world and places like that there was it was things that you could access for free 30:57.620 --> 31:03.740 um local store information i think there was you can access a map of the local area stuff like that 31:03.740 --> 31:09.700 um and then it also functioned like most internet kiosks where you pay for so many minutes and you 31:09.700 --> 31:15.400 could get internet access to check your mail and stuff like that um a i didn't see anybody paying to 31:15.400 --> 31:21.000 use any of them at any time uh maybe because we were on it a little bit but even so we were standing 31:21.000 --> 31:27.900 there watching and eating um i never saw anybody go up to it and use it so i'm skeptical of how successful 31:27.900 --> 31:35.960 they are but maybe they're not successful for this reason because we went over there and uh basically 31:35.960 --> 31:42.780 by going through the free areas i found a little back door a loophole that would let me out to the 31:42.780 --> 31:49.120 internet without authenticating off of anything so that was pretty handy i posted to the forum um 31:49.120 --> 31:53.940 basically by going through some of their local sites i went through actually one of the one one of the 31:53.940 --> 31:59.620 examples i got through was cnn.com they allowed you to go to cnn's home page to see news headlines 31:59.620 --> 32:09.360 well also on cnn headline also on cnn's uh home page is a google search link so by the google search 32:09.360 --> 32:14.480 link when i search for my site bam i bypass authentication because it still thinks i'm going 32:14.480 --> 32:23.020 through um cnn.com and you don't have to authenticate through cnn i'm actually cnn is acting as a proxy 32:23.020 --> 32:29.360 server for me so it doesn't know that i'm actually off of cnn it puts it within a window with a cnn logo 32:29.360 --> 32:34.720 and it still thinks i'm going through cnn.com which is a free area as far as it's concerned so it's it's 32:34.720 --> 32:41.340 not exactly uh rocket science but um it is definitely a big loophole that they missed and um worked 32:41.340 --> 32:48.160 consistently on every kiosk all the way up there so that was very fun i love i just love kiosks 32:48.160 --> 32:53.260 i love playing with kiosks i was always i've never found a kiosk yet that could stop me 32:53.260 --> 33:01.760 i actually i hate bringing this up again because but i apparently i'm so permanently traumatized thank 33:01.760 --> 33:09.600 you again decoder while i was on the kiosk i briefly considered and not only did i consider i actually did 33:09.600 --> 33:14.740 it i loaded up the picture and i'll just leave it at that the picture the weightlifter 33:14.740 --> 33:21.960 and mr v tech and i went and actually it was his idea he made me do it i'm going to blame him 33:21.960 --> 33:26.920 i brought it up on screen and i was going to just walk off and leave it there for all the world to 33:26.920 --> 33:33.420 enjoy but i couldn't do it i couldn't and put that kind of torture on anyone else i mean i wouldn't be 33:33.420 --> 33:37.800 able to sleep i can't sleep a night anyway i sure don't want to put that kind of torture on someone 33:37.800 --> 33:41.720 else and there were there were children around i don't want anybody to see anything like that i don't 33:41.720 --> 33:46.580 want an adult to see anything like that but i did think about it it was kind of funny we joked about 33:46.580 --> 33:51.560 it but i didn't actually go through to do that i wonder if the traumatization you would cause would 33:51.560 --> 33:55.560 be considered an act of terrorism because i'm sure you traumatize lots and lots of people yeah that's 33:55.560 --> 34:00.820 even the ones trying to close the browser itself yeah right um it probably wouldn't have stayed up 34:00.820 --> 34:05.460 that long if i noticed if you left the thing idle for too long it would go into demo mode and 34:05.460 --> 34:09.120 restart from its home page so it probably wouldn't have stayed up but maybe a minute 34:09.120 --> 34:13.980 but yeah it would have been long enough somebody would have seen it probably and there's there was 34:13.980 --> 34:20.780 actually a big um plasma screen above the monitor uh above your head so that people behind could see 34:20.780 --> 34:26.900 but it was not a mirror of what you were doing on the screen it was just an ad something was feeding 34:26.900 --> 34:32.140 uh advertisements and commercials to it so it would have really been disgusting if i could have brought 34:32.140 --> 34:37.580 it up on big full color plasma screen for the whole room the whole building to enjoy 34:37.580 --> 34:46.200 that's just evil yeah yeah um well let's yeah let's get off of the evil topics what why don't you tell 34:46.200 --> 34:49.720 us i know you've got big plans coming up this week why don't you tell us what you've got in store 34:49.720 --> 34:56.540 uh right the 24th through 26th of this month is uh hacker con in nashville by the name of freak nick 34:56.540 --> 35:02.220 uh hosted by the southeast 2600 group it should be a lot of fun um 35:02.220 --> 35:07.920 yeah i i wish i could go i'm you know i'm in the southeast you think i should be able to make it but 35:07.920 --> 35:12.660 i'm just not going to be able to make it unfortunately that's actually a pretty pretty decent drive for you 35:12.660 --> 35:19.520 um yes it is i'd like to get as many people out from the ddp as possible but everybody's so spread 35:19.520 --> 35:26.080 out trying to get to tennessee for anything is kind of maybe not difficult but you know yeah 35:26.080 --> 35:33.540 it's unfortunately it comes back to the old majority of us do work for a living work all day and getting 35:33.540 --> 35:39.900 off of work and working our schedules together is tough um i don't it's not a we don't have that 35:39.900 --> 35:43.740 luxury of dropping what you hey you want to go do this this weekend sure and we just take up and leave 35:43.740 --> 35:49.440 it's not quite that easy anymore so um maybe we can plan i know we've already discussed and 35:49.440 --> 35:54.120 and planned on going to the next hope conference whenever they announce it or whenever it and wherever 35:54.120 --> 35:59.720 it happens to be i'm sure new york again um and for the next defcon but i guess we got to start 35:59.720 --> 36:05.040 planning these things out ahead of time and um also i'd like to start planning on maybe working 36:05.040 --> 36:09.700 out some presentations for them as well but you know we got to we got to do it ahead of time 36:09.700 --> 36:13.580 unfortunately i don't know if that's a sign of old age that we have to schedule and plan 36:13.580 --> 36:19.160 everything or sounds like a yuppie kind of let me pencil you in muffy i don't know if i'm going 36:19.160 --> 36:25.380 to be available that weekend but unfortunately that is the way it uh that's the reality of the world 36:25.380 --> 36:29.420 right now but you are going to meet weren't you you were going to meet up with a couple people 36:29.420 --> 36:34.900 there right um yeah lock i'm i think we're going to be splitting a hotel room with uh benny lock 36:34.900 --> 36:41.040 on these forums now all right we're just we're just talking about hopefully somebody else will 36:41.040 --> 36:47.140 show up yeah oh i'm sure there's going to be plenty of people there um yeah maybe we should 36:47.140 --> 36:52.960 send some um copies of binary revolution huh might be a good possibility to get some of those out get 36:52.960 --> 36:58.700 the word out i am volunteering at the door so yeah that would be very cool very cool we got to think 36:58.700 --> 37:02.280 you know i might we'll have to talk about that after the show i didn't think about that but that 37:02.280 --> 37:09.080 that's definitely an opportunity there oh and how long is that you said it was the 24th is that 37:09.080 --> 37:14.820 yep friday saturday and part of sunday so you're going to be heading up thursday or friday i'll be 37:14.820 --> 37:20.840 heading up friday right after i get off work because i get off at 7 a.m so yeah been there done that i'm 37:20.840 --> 37:25.800 so glad i'm not back on that again um and then you i assume you'll come back sunday 37:25.800 --> 37:31.080 after work after the thing's over or yep actually i just come back sunday to go straight back to work 37:31.080 --> 37:37.900 oh that's going to be a good fun whoo yeah oh boy next the weekend after that we'll make sure not 37:37.900 --> 37:44.900 to disturb you and let you sleep it all off the weekend is when i work oh wow yeah when yeah you 37:44.900 --> 37:53.360 have to get some sleep in there sometime um you you know the last time you were on the last time 37:53.360 --> 38:01.920 you're on was the infamous halon incident and at my expense you know i don't mind telling throwing 38:01.920 --> 38:07.720 myself out there for the joke but this time you had a deadly deadly incident yourself didn't you 38:07.720 --> 38:12.420 have an incident did you want to share that with the class um i don't know if i want to share it but 38:12.420 --> 38:18.840 why not um yeah i had my own deadly halon incident about a week and a half ago sitting down there 38:18.840 --> 38:25.780 in my office about two in the morning and uh yeah the fire alarm system goes off oh you gotta 38:25.780 --> 38:30.620 love that it happened it's the first time it's often so it took me a couple seconds for anything 38:30.620 --> 38:36.420 to register i'm like what's that sound and right about that time i realized what it was so i'm a 38:36.420 --> 38:41.600 pretty big guy so i take off with a full sprint toward the exit door and unfortunately we have 38:41.600 --> 38:45.780 the uh proximity doors the ones with motion detectors that unlock themselves that are magnetic 38:45.780 --> 38:50.280 well if you ever ran into one of those very quickly you know that there's a little bit of 38:50.280 --> 38:55.180 latency between the time you pass the motion sensor and the time the door unlocked well i rammed the 38:55.180 --> 39:01.660 big metal door at full speed knocked myself right on my ass see you were so blinding fast that the 39:01.660 --> 39:07.880 motion sensor you you were just like the flash man you ran past it so quickly it hurt that's all i can 39:07.880 --> 39:13.020 say well outside the door and the engineers are staying there going oh sorry we didn't really know 39:13.020 --> 39:18.060 anybody was here now how can they not know that somebody is there's somebody there all the time 39:18.060 --> 39:25.260 they should have known they've set you up is what it was probably they had an interesting look on 39:25.260 --> 39:29.760 their face it probably didn't set me up yeah did you did you confirm that the door sensor didn't go 39:29.760 --> 39:34.440 off maybe they were just at the other end with their shoulders against it to block it well the joy 39:34.440 --> 39:39.360 of this place is that those doors are so screwed up on the timing i mean every once in a while you'll 39:39.360 --> 39:44.140 go to the door and it'll take five seconds to open so but i don't know they probably were 39:44.140 --> 39:50.720 disabled the motion sensor on the door what about a uh a power outage if the doors are electronically 39:50.720 --> 39:55.780 unlocked how do you get through in a power outage that i don't know but we had a you could be trapped 39:55.780 --> 40:03.660 in there my post uh on the board about that we did have a power outage um probably i guess a month 40:03.660 --> 40:09.420 and a half ago now and uh i was so traumatized because i was sitting in the pitch black i didn't 40:09.420 --> 40:16.980 even move so i don't know yeah i had and i had that before i've had the pitch black before um in the 40:16.980 --> 40:22.540 middle of the night and like when the halon incident happened to me it was like i was completely asleep i 40:22.540 --> 40:29.040 was just sleepwalking for the most part so it was it's i can very much relate very much relate now 40:29.040 --> 40:35.220 luckily for me when i hit the door i pulled an oj simpson spin move and ran out you unfortunately 40:35.220 --> 40:42.420 pulled a i don't know what you pulled you you hit a linebacker or something exactly uh well so you 40:42.420 --> 40:47.220 have to go with my deadly halon you have the deadly running into the door story so what that'll 40:47.220 --> 40:55.120 that'll be archived forever in binary revolution radio episode 15 um yeah and you know to confirm 40:55.120 --> 41:03.160 yeah that the halo is a scary thing the halo the halo is a scary thing yes it is um we all right 41:03.160 --> 41:07.820 let's we're joking we're laughing which we do a lot sometimes but you actually told me something i 41:07.820 --> 41:12.140 know this isn't a new thing that happened recently i know we're kind of we're talking about what's 41:12.140 --> 41:16.320 normally we talk about what we've been doing recently but you told me something off the off 41:16.320 --> 41:22.380 the air earlier that i think maybe you should bring up because a lot of people might not know this or be 41:22.380 --> 41:27.020 aware that this could happen you were telling me about some the drivers can you can you go back 41:27.020 --> 41:32.020 over that a little bit the drivers you were you were trying to remove you're working on uh sure 41:32.020 --> 41:40.760 um basically i had a radeon 9000 pro video card for a while and uh was decided to run linux on this 41:40.760 --> 41:44.420 box because this was my this was my gaming box it was the only windows box in the house 41:44.420 --> 41:52.220 and unfortunately the agp dart i believe it's what it's called in the kernel support wasn't quite 41:52.220 --> 42:02.680 working for this specific chipset it was an nvidia uh a7n 8x motherboard so the nvidia released a kernel 42:02.680 --> 42:08.140 patch which was all good and well except for the the better drivers for the card were on a completely 42:08.140 --> 42:14.700 different kernel version then the patch was released for so i decided to try to patch the 42:14.700 --> 42:21.060 kernel and then update or patch the kernel with the driver update and then update patch it with a real 42:21.060 --> 42:26.080 patch to that newest kernel version which at the time was 2.421 well between the two versions they 42:26.080 --> 42:31.980 had changed the data structure on one of the or changed the structure of one of the they changed the 42:31.980 --> 42:36.920 structure of one of the structures and the kernel itself so i decided well i'm good with c i can handle 42:36.920 --> 42:42.580 changing this data structure around a little bit making it work well i got it to compile right what's 42:42.580 --> 42:47.480 the what's the worst that could happen right exactly i mean it was a simple simple change 42:47.480 --> 42:55.880 and what happened next was kind of scary um it came up actually it worked in x mode and i'm like great 42:55.880 --> 43:01.440 and i got it working my first kernel hack ever but then i want to reboot it the uh anything that was a 43:01.440 --> 43:08.440 console or text based um like the bio screen the post messages um hell console terminal everything 43:08.440 --> 43:14.400 had this weird like mesh look um it was so bizarre it actually damaged the card i could take it and put 43:14.400 --> 43:22.440 it in different machines and it would still have the same problem wow so you actually because of 43:22.440 --> 43:28.420 because of the driver because of the hack that you did you actually somehow damaged the hardware from 43:28.420 --> 43:34.240 that exactly and that's really what we want to warn people is that that's can happen i guess 43:34.240 --> 43:40.560 um you're controlling interaction between a piece of hardware and software that's what the driver is 43:40.560 --> 43:45.600 for it is software to allow communications between the operating system and the hardware 43:45.600 --> 43:52.100 so i guess that means it can be bi-directional you can send stuff to the hardware which could be damaging 43:52.100 --> 43:56.900 i guess is that yeah that's pretty much what happened is that our theory of what happened there 43:56.900 --> 44:04.040 yeah i mean i honestly can't explain how it happened i've never never thought it could happen that way but 44:04.040 --> 44:10.100 sure enough did that seems like it i don't know what else it could have i mean a total fluke but i 44:10.100 --> 44:14.460 doubt it um yeah i think what i think it's what you said is right on the money i think that's exactly 44:14.460 --> 44:23.600 what happened so the moral of the story is just use the factory default driver or you're going to be 44:23.600 --> 44:29.600 at risk of causing damage because i know like you said you're very proficient at sea you know what 44:29.600 --> 44:36.280 you're doing and sometimes you just can't account for everything so i'm something must have slipped 44:36.280 --> 44:40.740 through there was a good side to it though i just had to replace the car i didn't end up buying a 44:40.740 --> 44:47.880 9700 pro so yeah but then again the bad side is you spent how much for the 9700 300 but we won't 44:47.880 --> 44:54.980 talk about this actually i have a 9000 in one of my boxes as well and luckily i haven't had any 44:54.980 --> 45:02.800 problems with it so that's a good thing um let's move on to some news topics um i got a couple quick 45:02.800 --> 45:07.900 little things i want to touch on um actually this is not i don't know how quick this is going to be 45:07.900 --> 45:13.980 this is pretty serious since i mentioned my cyber law class um i've been focusing a lot more on 45:13.980 --> 45:22.500 on issues that are related to law and things that need to be addressed things that need to be talked 45:22.500 --> 45:28.300 about um and one of these things and we've brought this up in our in our class as well as on the show 45:28.300 --> 45:34.920 and this is something a lot of people heard of um and that is um licensing agreements 45:34.920 --> 45:41.600 or eula eula la end user license agreement shrink wrap agreement whatever you want to call it 45:41.600 --> 45:46.780 tons of different names but basically the agreement that you abide by when you purchase a piece of 45:46.780 --> 45:54.580 software um particularly when you buy something off the shelf which i know a lot of people i don't know 45:54.580 --> 45:59.760 how how much software is bought off the shelf much anymore with online ordering and downloading and 45:59.760 --> 46:05.440 stuff like that but um for this example we'll say when you go buy something off a shelf you go buy 46:05.440 --> 46:10.900 whatever it is actually i i have a specific story here i'm going to share with you and this is not 46:10.900 --> 46:16.500 unique that you can find a lot of stories like this but this particular one caught my eye um and this 46:16.500 --> 46:22.660 was from network associates um someone went and bought a piece of their software and this was a magazine 46:22.660 --> 46:31.440 actually um bought a piece of their software off the shelf to review it for their magazine well buying 46:31.440 --> 46:37.140 software off the shelf and even when you download it you get that page of crap that nobody ever reads 46:37.140 --> 46:42.800 you know it's like pages long about what you can't do this and copyright that and you're not allowed 46:42.800 --> 46:49.060 to do this and blah blah blah well that is a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo but it does stand up in court 46:49.060 --> 46:55.220 and that is what cyber law is all about is teaching what that stuff means why you need it what you can 46:55.220 --> 47:00.580 and cannot do with it and stuff like that well most of these end user license agreements have a lot of 47:00.580 --> 47:09.860 a lot of um verbiage in there that prevent gives them control it's all about control it's all about 47:09.860 --> 47:17.160 control gives them a lot of control over what you can and can't do with and here's the key word your 47:17.160 --> 47:23.540 software or is it their software well you can and cannot do with the software that you download or 47:23.540 --> 47:31.040 buy in this particular case the network associates ended up suing a company because they gave a bad 47:31.040 --> 47:39.080 review on their software in that end user license agreement when you open that software it says in 47:39.080 --> 47:43.780 there that you have agreed not to benchmark that software and that's exactly what they did they 47:43.780 --> 47:49.040 benchmarked it compared it to other similar software packages and posted the results and gave it a poor 47:49.040 --> 47:55.020 review saying that it was the worst of the bunch network associates filed suit against them saying 47:55.020 --> 48:02.160 that they were not allowed to do that they violated their licensing agreement um by performing a benchmark 48:02.160 --> 48:06.000 now i'm sure that if they would have been on the winning end if they would have been the best software 48:06.000 --> 48:09.960 and they got the highest ranking i bet you they wouldn't have sued they would have overlooked it in that 48:09.960 --> 48:15.140 case but because they were on the losing end of it they were able to sue for breach of contract under that 48:15.140 --> 48:22.920 um licensing agreement so all those pages and all that stuff you see when you download stuff or when 48:22.920 --> 48:30.180 you sign up for anything i mean let's be realistic even i admit i don't read a lot of it i read more than 48:30.180 --> 48:36.160 most people especially if it's something serious or important um a lot of times i'll download stuff and 48:36.160 --> 48:40.980 don't care about that because what are they going to do you know how they're going to find me and what am i 48:40.980 --> 48:47.140 going to do with it but they are really pushing their luck with what they can get away with in licensing 48:47.140 --> 48:52.900 agreements and they've pushed it so far now that it's become an issue of free speech specifically this 48:52.900 --> 48:59.860 network associates example the magazine said that they have a right to free speech they have a right to review 48:59.860 --> 49:09.220 the software and post their results yet contract law is on the side of that software company because 49:09.220 --> 49:15.720 when you open that software you are agreeing to a contract with them to abide by those rules that 49:15.720 --> 49:24.240 they put on the front of the package so you don't own the software and this is something we've always 49:24.240 --> 49:29.340 complained about in the past that you don't you don't own the music that you buy you're borrowing it you 49:29.340 --> 49:33.920 have the right to listen to it but you don't own it you don't own the software anymore you have the 49:33.920 --> 49:40.760 right to use the software this is a fundamental problem because the law a is not written for that 49:40.760 --> 49:47.900 and b and this is of course an opinion situation it shouldn't be you should own that software again 49:47.900 --> 49:54.580 that's my opinion and i'm not going to get into a big soapbox about it but do you think that they 49:54.580 --> 50:00.360 should have that much control and a licensing agreement how do you feel about them telling 50:00.360 --> 50:06.460 you what you can and cannot do with the software and the actions that they can take against you if 50:06.460 --> 50:12.000 you violate them well i agree to a certain extent in which they can control what you do with their 50:12.000 --> 50:17.620 software um but not to that extent i mean that's that's infringing on their freedom of speech 50:17.620 --> 50:24.280 i mean that's it's almost ridiculous to even think about that you know a company could basically say 50:24.280 --> 50:28.880 well if you purchase our software you can't speak bad of us you know that that's pretty much what 50:28.880 --> 50:33.100 they're doing here that's exactly what they're doing here i mean if microsoft would have done that 50:33.100 --> 50:37.920 in there as hell we'd never have these problems yeah right we'd never know about them exactly 50:37.920 --> 50:43.360 exactly and that's you know that's a kind and this is not a an isolated case this is just one that 50:43.360 --> 50:49.120 caught my eye you can go look and search and you will find other examples about this another thing 50:49.120 --> 50:54.160 another thing that they put in there all the time and this is the one that really i have a big issue 50:54.160 --> 50:58.940 with it always says okay now like you said there's some things that are okay some things you expect and 50:58.940 --> 51:04.420 understand you know you expect when it gets when you get that um license agreement that it says that 51:04.420 --> 51:11.700 you can't um resell copies of the software you can't make copies and resell it you know that's that 51:11.700 --> 51:17.440 makes sense that's expected and understood you know people can debate whether or not you know 51:17.440 --> 51:21.500 the free software should be free and all that that's not an issue but it's not surprising to see 51:21.500 --> 51:27.960 that in a licensing agreement do you think no not at all that's something that's typical um 51:27.960 --> 51:32.800 and you can't take and modify it and put your name on it and resell it as a different you know stuff 51:32.800 --> 51:39.140 like that some stuff that's obvious but one thing that they put in there is that one of the rules 51:39.140 --> 51:44.600 are one of the things that you cannot do once you get it is reverse engineer that software you 51:44.600 --> 51:50.240 cannot decompile it that's in almost every licensing agreement that you'll ever see or find you do not 51:50.240 --> 51:58.800 have the right to decompile reverse engineer that software now ingenuity and invention in this country 51:58.800 --> 52:09.080 has a lot of dependence and foundation on reverse engineering and hopefully next week i if i talk 52:09.080 --> 52:15.460 about my cyber law test we actually had a question on there about reverse engineering and it's very 52:15.460 --> 52:18.960 appropriate to this i wish gosh now i'm thinking i should have saved this for next week maybe i'll 52:18.960 --> 52:26.160 bring it back up but reverse engineering is how a lot of people learn how things are made and then 52:26.160 --> 52:33.700 improve on them there are countries japan hong kong there are countries that have made their bread 52:33.700 --> 52:39.220 and butter on decompiling reverse engineering finding out how things work and then improving them and 52:39.220 --> 52:47.200 making them better you know electronics we in the united states come up with a lot of electronics 52:47.200 --> 52:52.020 breakthroughs that we never use that we hardly take advantage of we touch the surface 52:52.020 --> 52:58.580 and these companies overseas will take it pick up the ball and run with it figure out how it works 52:58.580 --> 53:05.280 and then actually apply and create new products and stuff with it so um reverse engineering is very 53:05.280 --> 53:11.900 important to be able to do and in these shrink wraps they're taking that away they're saying that 53:11.900 --> 53:16.800 you can't reverse engineer it now like i said earlier not being able to change it and sell it with your 53:16.800 --> 53:23.360 own name you know their exact code is one thing but to see how it works there's two issues there one 53:23.360 --> 53:28.600 you know the the issue of open source and knowing what's going on and what's behind the scenes 53:28.600 --> 53:36.380 and b a right to disclosure to know what the program is doing and what it's accessing i'm sorry but i do 53:36.380 --> 53:42.280 not trust microsoft they tell me that no private or personal information is being transmitted but how do i know 53:42.280 --> 53:47.580 that i would like to have the option not that i would have the technical ability 53:47.580 --> 53:53.480 or the time to go down and go through all that code but i would like to have the option and the opportunity 53:53.480 --> 53:58.080 and the right to look at that code to see if what they're telling me is true 53:58.080 --> 54:04.060 and they they take that away that's one of the many things that they put in the end user license agreement as well 54:04.060 --> 54:12.280 and there's a lot more um that they put in there that i am going to save for the next time but um 54:12.280 --> 54:17.960 yeah i'll bring this up i'll bring this up next week i'm going to try to talk about some of the 54:17.960 --> 54:22.320 questions and some of the things we've talked about cyber law we'll make we'll make next week the cyber law 54:22.320 --> 54:29.320 episode and talk about some of this kind of stuff um but for now i'm going to move on to another topic 54:29.320 --> 54:31.400 unless did you have something you wanted to add about that or 54:31.400 --> 54:36.540 well yeah the last thing i wanted to add was it's so much like and i've i've read articles on this 54:36.540 --> 54:42.600 before and it's so true that over the last 20 years technology for us is it just increased 54:42.600 --> 54:49.700 so exponentially that law really doesn't know how to handle it um intrusions in the system they're 54:49.700 --> 54:57.000 still still iffy about um the thing though and an analogy that i think would be good in this case 54:57.000 --> 55:02.120 could you imagine a world if this this continues in this way imagine a world oh you buy a car 55:02.120 --> 55:07.900 and that car is completely under lock and key you're not under the license agreement for that car you 55:07.900 --> 55:14.400 can't open the hood you can't do anything to it you have to take it to a license dealer or dealer uh 55:14.400 --> 55:19.480 repair facility i mean that just moves the way if we continue in this route that it's going to go 55:19.480 --> 55:25.820 now that that's actually a that's an excellent analogy if you couldn't fix your own car figure 55:25.820 --> 55:31.100 out how your own car works and how to improve it because you know i've i've mentioned briefly on the 55:31.100 --> 55:35.280 show it's another topic i'd like to cover on the show one day is is how to hack your car for lack of 55:35.280 --> 55:42.220 better terms there are people that modify their car and find many just tons of ways to get more power 55:42.220 --> 55:48.380 out of it to make it more efficient to make changes to the car and that's an excellent analogy that not 55:48.380 --> 55:53.900 only can you upgrade your car can you make it better can you improve it but fix it you know just 55:53.900 --> 55:58.580 figure out how it's you know what's causing the problem and facing it yourself instead of having 55:58.580 --> 56:04.500 to take it to a licensed dealer just like you have to do with your you know you have a uh your laptop 56:04.500 --> 56:09.740 breaks down you have to take it into an authorized repair center because you don't have the information 56:09.740 --> 56:16.500 to do it yourself well yeah that that's that i like that that's a very good analogy very good 56:16.500 --> 56:25.400 um i will i hopefully will we can talk on that more next week um i'm going to move into another 56:25.400 --> 56:27.860 copyright topic although this is not 56:27.860 --> 56:33.200 well i'm not going to tie this into cyber law again but 56:33.200 --> 56:40.980 let me let me pose this question to you a database is a database something that can and 56:40.980 --> 56:48.720 should be copyrightable i it's a it's a vague i know it's a vague question but can you copyright a 56:48.720 --> 56:54.180 database of like like for example here's an example how about the phone book that is a huge database of 56:54.180 --> 57:00.760 phone numbers so we're talking about the data with this that resides within a database well you tell me 57:00.760 --> 57:08.600 um i could see obviously copywriting the database software but the database itself the data that it 57:08.600 --> 57:15.240 holds i don't think so i mean does it depend on the nature of the data there's nothing really to 57:15.240 --> 57:24.060 copyright in my opinion i mean it's a collection of data um it's not an idea it's not so it wouldn't 57:24.060 --> 57:29.740 fall under intellectual property right it would have to be a creative idea for copyright to really 57:29.740 --> 57:36.480 take effect creativity i mean that's that's asking a question well i've got this stack of paper 57:36.480 --> 57:42.440 technically it's the same thing as a database it's not in an electronic format but hell the freaks out 57:42.440 --> 57:46.500 there with their freaking notebooks technically that's a database database of your notes can you 57:46.500 --> 57:54.560 copyright that well and should you should you be able to to me i say no i mean i just i i can't 57:54.560 --> 58:00.520 imagine how you could they could even have a ground to even attempt it well all right let me let me try 58:00.520 --> 58:07.500 to make let me play devil's advocate let me try to think of an example what if um what if you 58:07.500 --> 58:17.520 sat at home and oh my gosh make an example on the spot let's say you sat at home and analyzed how many 58:17.520 --> 58:24.480 uh okay you sit at home and you watch television every night for a week and you sit there with a 58:24.480 --> 58:29.920 notebook and pen in the paper you pour over television you count how many males and how many females are on 58:29.920 --> 58:36.280 television and their age brackets and you gather up all this information so that you can sell it to a 58:36.280 --> 58:42.660 company for their marketing and you're able to say to them oh you want to sell toys well here saturday 58:42.660 --> 58:47.440 morning has the most children watching and has the most children on television or if you want to 58:47.440 --> 58:52.460 market to 20 somethings you might want to try this night you did this data that you found yourself by 58:52.460 --> 58:58.700 watching television should you be able to copyright that data that you just found i don't think it 58:58.700 --> 59:04.420 or should you be forced to turn that over you should be able to copyright it but i don't think 59:04.420 --> 59:11.140 that for instance if you sold it to and i guess it comes back to user license agreement if you sell it 59:11.140 --> 59:16.460 to someone do they have the right to resell it well and you could that would be a contract that 59:16.460 --> 59:22.120 would be contract law you would work up a contract for something like that but the data itself and 59:22.120 --> 59:26.840 and that's kind of the fundamentals of this case there is an act before congress night right now it's 59:26.840 --> 59:31.660 called well this is like the longest name for an act it's called the database and collections of 59:31.660 --> 59:38.260 information misappropriation act god i want to buy a there's so many vowels in that i don't i think i'd have 59:38.260 --> 59:45.980 to i'd miss that one on uh what is this show wheel of fortune yeah i'd never get that on wheel of 59:45.980 --> 59:53.140 fortune the database and collections of information misappropriation act and what it basically means 59:53.140 --> 59:59.940 is is the question that i just presented is if a company takes time to create a database um should 59:59.940 --> 01:00:06.900 they be able to copyright that information now the example i just gave which i just made up um 01:00:06.900 --> 01:00:14.240 is based on public information what you see on the television show sitting there watching for a 01:00:14.240 --> 01:00:19.580 week and you write it all down well that is technically public information anyone could have 01:00:19.580 --> 01:00:25.040 watched that and written that stuff down the fact that you did it is a credit i guess and you should 01:00:25.040 --> 01:00:31.620 be able to sell it or whatever i guess but copywriting it you by the letter of the law the way it is now 01:00:31.620 --> 01:00:38.920 you cannot copyright public information no matter how you format it you can make it into a database 01:00:38.920 --> 01:00:44.860 but the bottom line is it's still public information everybody can see and tell how much is there like 01:00:44.860 --> 01:00:51.640 a phone book and that's really one of the first big cases about it was that the phone companies made the 01:00:51.640 --> 01:00:57.000 phone book and no one else could make a phone book phone book well that's public information phone 01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:02.700 numbers are available to anyone and everyone and courts found that other companies were allowed 01:01:02.700 --> 01:01:07.880 to make phone books of public information you can't have a copyright on public information 01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:14.740 and that's what's going on here um if you were to make a database there was an extract of public 01:01:14.740 --> 01:01:21.200 information for example um um you know when you get we've talked about targeted marketing before 01:01:21.200 --> 01:01:30.500 targeted spam targeted uh um phone calls sales calls um i recently purchased a car that's public 01:01:30.500 --> 01:01:36.900 information i registered that car registration is part of the government part of the state and that's 01:01:36.900 --> 01:01:42.600 publicly available to anyone and verifine knows all about it now brother don't even get me started on 01:01:42.600 --> 01:01:51.180 that information is public information and cannot be copywritten no matter how much you format now you can 01:01:51.180 --> 01:01:57.840 pay or you can take the time to create a database of only car owners in florida or only homeowners in 01:01:57.840 --> 01:02:04.700 in tennessee or something like that but can you copyright it do you have to share it is it something that 01:02:04.700 --> 01:02:13.820 you can protect legally and that's what this act is saying this act is trying to say that if it 01:02:13.820 --> 01:02:20.680 it's basically wants to institute and i mentioned this earlier in the show on a different topic but again 01:02:20.680 --> 01:02:26.100 it's a it's a it's another level of control they want to put in more control for people 01:02:26.100 --> 01:02:35.140 to copyright these databases what about what about a place like um what about google what about google 01:02:35.140 --> 01:02:44.880 google.com is a search engine full of public information verisign like you said it's public information 01:02:44.880 --> 01:02:50.460 website addresses should google be forced to share all that information 01:02:50.460 --> 01:02:56.220 i'm kind of playing devil's advocate here you're trying to see both sides of the story 01:02:56.220 --> 01:03:01.660 it is public information they should not be able to copyright that or should they 01:03:01.660 --> 01:03:08.920 i still say no but in the case of google since google does everything and then they copyright that 01:03:08.920 --> 01:03:14.120 to know we're screwed well you know and and there's also another issue of in that particular example 01:03:14.120 --> 01:03:21.140 i would argue that they're not they are making it publicly available because they are a search engine 01:03:21.140 --> 01:03:25.420 after all you can go and search and get the information from so it's not like they're keeping 01:03:25.420 --> 01:03:31.720 it from anyone they're not trying to copyright it per se um so i would say that it's still publicly 01:03:31.720 --> 01:03:36.440 available through them um so i don't think copyright is an issue but what if they were to start 01:03:36.440 --> 01:03:42.640 charging for it what if you had to pay a penny for every search that you did should they then 01:03:42.640 --> 01:03:47.120 be able to copyright that information or should they be forced to share it with everyone else 01:03:47.120 --> 01:03:54.640 so anyway i kind of see what some of the thought process is but i i'm with you i don't agree with it i 01:03:54.640 --> 01:04:02.960 think it's just a another level of control and we already have way too many as it is you know so i i hope 01:04:02.960 --> 01:04:08.940 this doesn't doesn't go through although i don't know that i'd necessarily be opposed to something 01:04:08.940 --> 01:04:13.680 if they were to do something i don't know come up with a happy medium 01:04:13.680 --> 01:04:22.540 i mean you know most hackers live by the philosophy that data should be free 01:04:22.540 --> 01:04:29.160 all data should be free now i'm not naive enough to believe that all data is ever going to be free 01:04:29.160 --> 01:04:34.620 but this is one case where i think public information no matter how much work google put 01:04:34.620 --> 01:04:41.420 into it no matter how much work these companies put into extracting that information out fundamentally 01:04:41.420 --> 01:04:45.240 it was public information to begin with and i don't think it should be copyrightable 01:04:45.240 --> 01:04:49.820 well the one thing i i this is the reason why i doubt that this act would be passed 01:04:49.820 --> 01:04:54.880 did you imagine the chaos and trying to sort through that well who owns this piece of this type of 01:04:54.880 --> 01:04:58.840 database who owns this type right and no one can own data 01:04:58.840 --> 01:05:06.060 yeah no one can own data no one can own data um and this actually i think it was 19 01:05:06.060 --> 01:05:12.220 1999 maybe even earlier than that they tried a similar act it was um 01:05:12.220 --> 01:05:17.680 gosh i do not remember i'm on the spot here i do not remember what it was called the last time they sent it 01:05:17.680 --> 01:05:23.580 through something about piracy it had the piracy in the name of it something um 01:05:23.580 --> 01:05:31.960 oh gosh anti-piracy act of something that was along the same lines and it it did get shot down 01:05:31.960 --> 01:05:37.960 it did not pass successfully and hopefully that happens in this case too but apparently some people think it is 01:05:37.960 --> 01:05:44.020 worth creating an act over so some people must be for it and we know 01:05:44.020 --> 01:05:49.460 large stakes and uh things like google exactly and you know and this is where the corruption and i'm not 01:05:49.460 --> 01:05:54.120 going to turn this into a big everybody knows how anti-government i am sometimes i'm not going to go 01:05:54.120 --> 01:06:03.240 off on it but this is how situations arise now you've got special interest groups i don't know google 01:06:03.240 --> 01:06:09.680 i'm not accusing them but the potential exists for them to go and lobby and put some money in to make 01:06:09.680 --> 01:06:14.900 this happen so that they're able to copyright their database that brings about an interesting 01:06:14.900 --> 01:06:22.160 question once the data is owned by a private company then it's no longer public so to have a 01:06:22.160 --> 01:06:29.220 database of public data would be almost a contradiction in itself well it could be easily defeated that's 01:06:29.220 --> 01:06:33.660 why it's it's also kind of silly from a business standpoint to put too much effort into it um they're 01:06:33.660 --> 01:06:40.260 talking specifically think of it as data mining um and actually since i'm some people might not be 01:06:40.260 --> 01:06:47.040 familiar i'm going to back up data warehousing and data mining data warehousing is the act of just 01:06:47.040 --> 01:06:53.300 building this huge database of every bit of information that you could possibly come up with 01:06:53.300 --> 01:07:00.320 and well let's let's defer back to the phone book everybody's phone number around the world 01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:07.880 and their names and their addresses and whatever information they collect huge database a data 01:07:07.880 --> 01:07:15.380 warehouse well in the state of iowa i've never used that one on the air there's a good example in 01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:21.100 the state of iowa they don't care about all the other states phone numbers for the most part the 01:07:21.100 --> 01:07:28.120 majority of people only care about what's inside the state or their surrounding areas and um what they 01:07:28.120 --> 01:07:35.380 will do is data mine that data warehouse to come up only with local specific data that would be of 01:07:35.380 --> 01:07:43.240 interest to iowa and that is the database in question yes it's derived from public information as you said 01:07:43.240 --> 01:07:49.940 but it doesn't necessarily become private it's based on public information but it was work that was put 01:07:49.940 --> 01:07:55.440 into it to come up with this result and do they have a right to copyright it just because they put in 01:07:55.440 --> 01:08:02.440 that work anybody else should also be able to go to that database and data mine themselves the exact 01:08:02.440 --> 01:08:07.620 same information anyway so it's kind of a moot argument it's kind of a silly thing to make a big 01:08:07.620 --> 01:08:12.740 deal out of because it can be recreated from public data but that's really what they're getting at when 01:08:12.740 --> 01:08:20.260 you do spend time money and effort as a company to data mine for information like i said before i bought 01:08:20.260 --> 01:08:24.460 a car recently if they want to go and data mine anyone who's bought a car in the last six months 01:08:24.460 --> 01:08:30.400 you know they can do that should they be able to copyright it no anybody else can do it anyway 01:08:30.400 --> 01:08:37.680 they can also further data mine well who bought a toyota who bought a toyota in the state of florida 01:08:37.680 --> 01:08:43.320 who bought from this particular dealer who bought the four-cylinder who bought the the f-150 truck with 01:08:43.320 --> 01:08:50.180 the dual can't you know they can data mine down to such precision that they feel i guess that by 01:08:50.180 --> 01:08:53.860 putting all that time and money in they should be able to own copyright to that information 01:08:53.860 --> 01:09:02.080 and it just logically and technically doesn't seem like there's much fundamental fund basis there so 01:09:02.080 --> 01:09:07.600 i'm willing to bet that uh verisign is probably one of the backers of this act it's amazing how much 01:09:07.600 --> 01:09:13.680 private data they have um i don't know if you know how much that they have private information 01:09:13.680 --> 01:09:18.960 on you but i have a great example um earlier this year i was having to go through some website and 01:09:18.960 --> 01:09:24.000 they required me to go through verisign to verify my identity so i call up their operator and they're 01:09:24.000 --> 01:09:28.680 like and their first question was all right what's the account number for your student loan that you 01:09:28.680 --> 01:09:35.000 got earlier this year what i nearly shit myself i don't know that and i kind of held you know that 01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:41.240 that was a private institution oh that's scary seriously they have a lot of private data that i 01:09:41.240 --> 01:09:45.880 don't know how they legally have well depending on what kind of student loan it was if it was from 01:09:45.880 --> 01:09:51.240 the government it is a matter of public records so but the question is why would they want it and 01:09:51.240 --> 01:09:56.560 why would they have it why would they go looking for it right and that that to me that's pretty damn 01:09:56.560 --> 01:10:02.880 scary that's very scary that's very scary and i've mentioned before that um american express is very 01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:08.080 big about that they keep a huge data mine and they sell it out to advertisers focused on age groups 01:10:08.080 --> 01:10:13.180 and who buys electronics sure we'll sell you a we'll data mine you uh uh some information to sell it but 01:10:13.180 --> 01:10:18.340 that's not public information that's their user information it's not publicly available so that's a 01:10:18.340 --> 01:10:24.160 little bit different uh amazon.com they're huge in data mining they're one of the forum they're one of 01:10:24.160 --> 01:10:30.120 the um i don't know gosh i can't think of the term they're one of the people that pushed ahead one of 01:10:30.120 --> 01:10:37.160 the premier users of data mining when you go to amazon they have such a huge warehouse of what 01:10:37.160 --> 01:10:41.760 you've looked at in the past if you go there you'll see last time you're here you looked at this and 01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:46.480 oh you might also be interested in that and people in your area also purchase this and here's circles 01:10:46.480 --> 01:10:52.500 for that they know neighbor next door just purchased exactly exactly and they keep in data mine and they 01:10:52.500 --> 01:10:57.660 do and they tie you to your neighbors they tie you by location they tie you by interest they tie you by 01:10:57.660 --> 01:11:03.900 you know they they even and this did not happen to me because i don't buy a lot from amazon i buy 01:11:03.900 --> 01:11:10.840 some dvds and books occasionally um i had a friend who bought a dvd player through them and then amazon 01:11:10.840 --> 01:11:15.060 knows that you have a player now and starts pushing dvds to you that you'd be interested in 01:11:15.060 --> 01:11:22.100 or upgrades to that dvd player modifications and things like that no they know what you buy and they 01:11:22.100 --> 01:11:28.260 can start targeted marketing to you now again that's not public information so it's a little 01:11:28.260 --> 01:11:34.480 bit different but that is data mining at its best that is that is what data mining is all about now 01:11:34.480 --> 01:11:38.420 the question is not like i said the amazons of the world where they can do that with their data 01:11:38.420 --> 01:11:43.900 you know whether whether or not it's right or wrong is a whole different topic but can you do that same 01:11:43.900 --> 01:11:53.140 thing with public data and that's really what this act is about so um hopefully that won't go through 01:11:53.140 --> 01:11:59.720 um i haven't heard anything on that in a week or so so um i'll try to find out see if we have some 01:11:59.720 --> 01:12:04.100 closure but you know how these things can get dragged out and changed and modified and it may end up being 01:12:04.100 --> 01:12:10.620 not even what it originally started as at some point um i'm gonna touch on one more quick topic 01:12:10.620 --> 01:12:18.100 because we're i think we're actually out of time about now maybe over um i saw an ad in one of my 01:12:18.100 --> 01:12:24.440 trade magazines for something called e-blaster e-blaster it's a software package from specter soft 01:12:24.440 --> 01:12:34.320 uh s-p-e-c-t-o-r-s-o-f-t dot com that records keystrokes emails instant messages both sides of the 01:12:34.320 --> 01:12:40.100 instant message mind you and forwards it to an address on a regular schedule and this is marketed this was in 01:12:40.100 --> 01:12:44.060 one of my trade magazines marketed towards companies who want to watch what their employees are doing 01:12:44.060 --> 01:12:49.800 at work they can monitor you and see what you're doing and who you're talking with and what you're 01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:56.240 doing online and stuff like that now we've mentioned on the show on the before right or wrong like it or 01:12:56.240 --> 01:13:04.360 not companies do have a right to what a legal right not a moral right but a legal right to watch what 01:13:04.360 --> 01:13:09.800 you're doing online and to monitor you when you're on the clock anything that you do while you're working 01:13:09.800 --> 01:13:15.020 for them any knowledge that you find any inventions you make you're doing it on behalf of the company 01:13:15.020 --> 01:13:21.120 as an agent in the company and they have the right to monitor that type of stuff but the act of what 01:13:21.120 --> 01:13:27.440 they're doing recording keystrokes emails forwarding them to a supervisor or maybe just creating a 01:13:27.440 --> 01:13:32.040 database of everywhere you go and everything you do last time i checked that was called a virus 01:13:32.040 --> 01:13:38.620 and the virus itself is kind of sort of illegal but i guess when you sell it as a software package like 01:13:38.620 --> 01:13:44.300 this as monitoring i guess that makes it okay well when you refer to it as a virus it's not i guess 01:13:44.300 --> 01:13:51.620 by definition that is a type of virus but that doesn't necessarily make it a virus um that i guess 01:13:51.620 --> 01:13:57.760 that's where i would yeah it doesn't it doesn't spread or pop or get propagate you're right but as far 01:13:57.760 --> 01:14:03.500 what it does you install that does what it's supposed to do so technically i guess i wouldn't 01:14:03.500 --> 01:14:10.760 consider it a virus but um i mean yeah if it weren't if it weren't the owner of the machine 01:14:10.760 --> 01:14:15.500 doing it yeah it would be completely illegal now and i assume that's what's happening with this is 01:14:15.500 --> 01:14:20.900 there's the administrators are probably pushing it out to the boxes remotely um they probably push out 01:14:20.900 --> 01:14:24.300 a client as a matter of fact i think they even said that that you could send it as an email 01:14:24.300 --> 01:14:30.180 attachment to your employees and they even uh promoted it as disguised it as something else 01:14:30.180 --> 01:14:34.600 when they execute it it puts that on their box without them knowing about it that's why virus 01:14:34.600 --> 01:14:38.740 the vision of a virus pops into my head that's the same thing that hackers do all the time we send 01:14:38.740 --> 01:14:43.660 the oh yeah here's this great screensaver click on it you know that's the way viruses spread well 01:14:43.660 --> 01:14:48.060 that's what this is doing it's more of a trojan than a virus i guess you want to call it that and 01:14:48.060 --> 01:14:55.260 and yes it's controlled it doesn't self-replicate so what's actually kind of funny is a company i was 01:14:55.260 --> 01:15:01.260 administrator for in atlanta um we had a couple employees who were being watched for i think 01:15:01.260 --> 01:15:06.640 honestly i can't remember what they were doing now but uh my boss had me push out sub seven to their 01:15:06.640 --> 01:15:14.180 machine and she would use that to monitor the employees wow yeah oh that's kind of scary 01:15:14.180 --> 01:15:23.700 um well and you know the other thing about this instant messaging both sides okay you have a right 01:15:23.700 --> 01:15:29.440 to watch the employee online and what he's doing ascending but do they have a right to watch who the 01:15:29.440 --> 01:15:34.080 other person that the person's talking to well if you take it to a lower level it's still data on their 01:15:34.080 --> 01:15:39.340 network and so they still own it it doesn't matter how you know what how it's coming in or it doesn't 01:15:39.340 --> 01:15:43.520 matter what it is that they're viewing if they decide to go look at their private banking information 01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:48.020 the data that comes across their line belongs to them well i don't know i think i would argue that 01:15:48.020 --> 01:15:53.420 i can sit here in my house with the proper equipment and pick up cell phone calls around my neighborhood 01:15:53.420 --> 01:15:58.080 that doesn't make it my data that i automatically have the right to own and listen to and keep 01:15:58.080 --> 01:16:05.600 but technically it's the fcc's wave well see that's a whole nother can of worms we won't go there but 01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:10.540 yeah i mean i don't know that i would debate that a lot i don't like that i don't like that at all 01:16:10.540 --> 01:16:14.580 i mean if the guys you know they have a right to monitor 01:16:14.580 --> 01:16:22.760 what someone else sends him well okay well let's say that this was on your job they were monitoring 01:16:22.760 --> 01:16:27.800 you and you didn't know it and you're talking to me in an instant message if i mention or say 01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:30.200 something in an instant message conversation with you 01:16:30.200 --> 01:16:37.740 that could come back to get me in trouble or haunt me somehow or something personal or embarrassing 01:16:37.740 --> 01:16:47.460 that they now have on me the potential for abuse there is phenomenal that is a huge huge invasion 01:16:47.460 --> 01:16:54.220 of privacy if they want to save and monitor what you say what you send out sure but what i send in 01:16:54.220 --> 01:16:59.800 i don't know that i'm being monitored it's kind of like um recording a phone call the person calling in 01:16:59.800 --> 01:17:06.340 doesn't know that our standards within the stank household is to record all incoming phone calls 01:17:06.340 --> 01:17:12.240 they don't know that but that doesn't mean it's okay for me to record everything without without 01:17:12.240 --> 01:17:17.940 disclosing it to them right i mean i agree on the moral side of it but when you take it to the 01:17:17.940 --> 01:17:23.080 technical level um that's i guess where it becomes kind of vague yeah and i i really i do not know the 01:17:23.080 --> 01:17:28.140 answer to that do you know as a matter of fact that since yet i agree with you technically it is data 01:17:28.140 --> 01:17:34.540 on their network but whether it was in see the way the nature of the internet is all data passes 01:17:34.540 --> 01:17:39.120 through all other networks that doesn't give you the right to sniff in and listen to it just because 01:17:39.120 --> 01:17:49.320 it's on your network so i don't know what the actual factual legal right they have on that i get 01:17:49.320 --> 01:17:54.720 well actually i guess if for instance an isp um if an isp in their license agreement says that they 01:17:54.720 --> 01:17:59.860 that they reserve the right to do that i wouldn't see a reason why they couldn't so they're there 01:17:59.860 --> 01:18:05.360 again then they could sniff on that data um but legally i think anything going across a private 01:18:05.360 --> 01:18:10.800 network is considered owned by that company they can do with it what they will i mean some large 01:18:10.800 --> 01:18:16.940 companies that do uh i think it's called packet uh using packet rolls basically storing every piece 01:18:16.940 --> 01:18:24.540 the data that comes across now that that's a scary scary scary thought if i send an email to my friend 01:18:24.540 --> 01:18:33.000 in california i send an email to um um dual i send an email somewhere it's going to hit 30 hops along the 01:18:33.000 --> 01:18:41.260 way or more and who knows how many phone lines it crosses over owned by how many companies 01:18:41.260 --> 01:18:48.340 every one of them has the right because it is data on their network they have the legal right 01:18:48.340 --> 01:18:55.460 to store it capture it again i think they would probably have to specify in the user agreement but 01:18:55.460 --> 01:18:59.640 if they don't present me with that user agreement i don't know where it's going and it's different 01:18:59.640 --> 01:19:04.200 every time so i don't know about that one i'd like to find an answer to that one if anybody out 01:19:04.200 --> 01:19:08.640 there knows the legalities of that i would very much love to hear that because i don't think 01:19:08.640 --> 01:19:13.560 morally i definitely say it's wrong but i'm not sure that legally they can do that 01:19:13.560 --> 01:19:20.180 i think there's too much of a gray area there that they i don't think i think the i think they would 01:19:20.180 --> 01:19:24.860 find on the side of the of the consumer on the individuals in that case or at least i'd like to 01:19:24.860 --> 01:19:31.700 hope so but this brings up another topic and this is a great point to end on that is the reason 01:19:31.700 --> 01:19:38.540 that you use encryption that's why you encrypt your data that's why you encrypt everything that you 01:19:38.540 --> 01:19:44.940 send out and everything that you receive encrypt it so that yeah you can have the fucking packets 01:19:44.940 --> 01:19:50.300 oh i almost made it through the show without cussing i think i think that was the first one 01:19:50.300 --> 01:19:59.240 darn it i think i think oh man oh well you can have the packets but good luck getting into them if you 01:19:59.240 --> 01:20:04.980 want it that bad have at it but that's one reason why i want to work for the large majority of the time 01:20:04.980 --> 01:20:08.880 when i have my laptop here i'll actually use secure shell tunnels with a fox proxy at my house 01:20:08.880 --> 01:20:13.680 and browse through my own home network because it's not that i'm browsing anything questionable 01:20:13.680 --> 01:20:18.560 no kitty porn things like that but i mean a lot of sites that i do go to could be considered 01:20:18.560 --> 01:20:22.420 objectionable by my boss my boss's boss and that kind of thing 01:20:22.420 --> 01:20:30.760 absolutely i'm in the same boat but hey what are you gonna do all right well let's let's wrap it up here 01:20:30.760 --> 01:20:37.820 i think we're well over um what's jump you know three weeks in a row i'm gonna do this 01:20:37.820 --> 01:20:40.720 uh actually before i do do you have any shout outs you want to give out 01:20:40.720 --> 01:20:46.120 uh just everybody on the board all right i'm going to give my shout outs once again three weeks in a row 01:20:46.120 --> 01:20:53.140 chicago cubs i don't care what people you guys can laugh and make fun of me superstition exists in 01:20:53.140 --> 01:20:59.300 baseball i've said it for two shows now and the cubs are still in there they're up on the marlins right 01:20:59.300 --> 01:21:07.940 now go chicago cubs mad shout outs they're going to the world series first time since 1945 cubs all the 01:21:07.940 --> 01:21:15.100 way baby shout out chicago cubs you got any feedback letters at binrev.com and i think that will do it 01:21:15.100 --> 01:21:20.600 oh wait a minute our closing music dirt from shadow of the locust silent candle thank you voodoo 01:21:20.600 --> 01:21:26.340 hal i appreciate you doing the show once again and um i guess to the listeners we will see you 01:21:26.340 --> 01:21:30.560 next week same hack time same hack channel later 01:21:30.560 --> 01:21:47.060 the silence of the candle 01:21:47.060 --> 01:21:54.060 burning in the moon 01:21:54.060 --> 01:22:00.060 the silence of the candle 01:22:00.060 --> 01:22:02.060 burning in the moon 01:22:02.060 --> 01:22:14.060 a smoldering witch he won't snuff out you're walking with your chest out but pride got your heart looking dim 01:22:14.060 --> 01:22:30.560 i've seen this happen to many men and many women trembling low self-esteem got the flame flickering and once this happened the traps have been set and the maggots have been letting it's hard to be forgetting but thinking that god forgot you as the devil holds up a hoop for you to jump through hard rock solid sediment and it's hard to break through stare into the eyes of doubt and turn into a stone statue an ember struggling 01:22:30.560 --> 01:22:37.560 the saliva from a demon's mouth turns a bonfire to nothing 01:22:37.560 --> 01:22:44.560 haven't you cried please send something to deliver me from this 01:22:44.560 --> 01:22:47.560 i got caught up in the abyss 01:22:47.560 --> 01:22:51.560 and struck with a pestilence 01:22:51.560 --> 01:22:53.560 my soul cleave it to dust 01:22:53.560 --> 01:22:55.560 and melt from the heaviness 01:22:55.560 --> 01:22:57.560 unnerved by the sound 01:22:57.560 --> 01:22:59.560 as the city crashes 01:22:59.560 --> 01:23:01.560 why jesus suffer through thirty lashes 01:23:01.560 --> 01:23:03.560 blood and sweat removed from his divine spine 01:23:03.560 --> 01:23:10.560 to add to my spineless dead man raised from a casket 01:23:10.560 --> 01:23:15.560 but callousness rusted my progress under a basket 01:23:15.560 --> 01:23:18.560 a hidden fluorescent lamp under a bed 01:23:18.560 --> 01:23:21.560 i fit dead with insight from christ 01:23:21.560 --> 01:23:22.560 locked in my forehead 01:23:22.560 --> 01:23:23.560 my soul aching 01:23:23.560 --> 01:23:24.560 a cardiac ransack 01:23:24.560 --> 01:23:27.560 plaque gathers in my lungs from the smokestack 01:23:27.560 --> 01:23:30.560 a pilgrim progress in the right path 01:23:30.560 --> 01:23:32.560 but now treating john white cul-de-sac 01:23:32.560 --> 01:23:37.560 as a foul spirit twists my direction in the pitch black 01:23:37.560 --> 01:23:41.560 it's a shame that i never want to spread his beautiful name through off the streets 01:23:41.560 --> 01:23:46.560 it's hard to explain why my speech doesn't reach the ears of lost souls too many years of shedding tears 01:23:46.560 --> 01:23:49.560 how do i steer towards obedience without running over millions 01:23:49.560 --> 01:23:51.560 i fear to be laughed at like comedians 01:23:51.560 --> 01:23:53.560 a human comedian is what i am 01:23:53.560 --> 01:23:54.560 and i can't stand that 01:23:54.560 --> 01:23:57.560 i do my best to stick out like sammy davis jr from the rat pack 01:23:57.560 --> 01:23:58.560 what do i lack 01:23:58.560 --> 01:23:59.560 what do i lack 01:23:59.560 --> 01:24:01.560 an outer light like an eclipse with nothing to ignite 01:24:01.560 --> 01:24:04.560 i fight with this inner force that seems to amplify inside my mind 01:24:04.560 --> 01:24:05.560 but i can't deny him 01:24:05.560 --> 01:24:07.560 since he manifested in flesh 01:24:07.560 --> 01:24:09.560 defeated death with one breath of life 01:24:09.560 --> 01:24:10.560 no more silence like calling silence 01:24:10.560 --> 01:24:13.560 look inside this candle as i burn with a timeless heat 01:24:13.560 --> 01:24:15.560 even if my wick seems to be weak 01:24:15.560 --> 01:24:16.560 his wonderful presence appears 01:24:16.560 --> 01:24:17.560 length of my feet 01:24:17.560 --> 01:24:18.560 length of my reach 01:24:18.560 --> 01:24:20.560 only to illuminate a dark and lonely valley of life 01:24:20.560 --> 01:24:23.560 its radiant light cuts through darkness like a sharpened knife 01:24:23.560 --> 01:24:24.560 it's a pattern 01:24:24.560 --> 01:24:27.560 the light beyond in a circular motion like the rings of saturn 01:24:27.560 --> 01:24:31.560 i'm a human lantern that was once pictured as a silent candle 01:24:31.560 --> 01:24:46.560 hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich 01:24:46.560 --> 01:24:48.560 msuu-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich-hich 01:24:48.560 --> 01:25:11.240 I open up my mouth, I utter words but don't speak 01:25:11.240 --> 01:25:14.260 Most of the time I say nothing, and if I do it's too deep 01:25:14.260 --> 01:25:17.440 I'm a creeper, radiohead, wondering what I'm doing here 01:25:17.440 --> 01:25:20.520 I don't belong here, and lately it's become ever so clear 01:25:20.520 --> 01:25:23.860 I try to find my place in this cold world and found none 01:25:23.860 --> 01:25:26.880 So I die to the squirrel, but dying made me feel numb 01:25:26.880 --> 01:25:30.360 And dumb, deaf and blind, hands over ears, mouth and eyes 01:25:30.360 --> 01:25:33.500 A monkey in the middle, caught between earth and sky 01:25:33.500 --> 01:25:36.560 I try to let my light shine, but my flame flickers dim 01:25:36.560 --> 01:25:39.840 At times almost fates, still I can feel its warm glow within 01:25:39.840 --> 01:25:43.100 There since life was a fire, cold wind blow against my soul 01:25:43.100 --> 01:25:46.160 So I rage against the dying of the light, and won't let go 01:25:46.160 --> 01:25:49.240 Lord, I know that I have failed you, time and time again 01:25:49.240 --> 01:25:52.680 If I transcend every obstacle, will I become a legend like Tanzan? 01:25:52.680 --> 01:25:55.700 I try to comprehend my purpose, and while my surface needs to melt 01:25:55.700 --> 01:25:58.720 How could a candle be so worthless, all I think's about myself 01:25:58.720 --> 01:26:01.940 Why else could you have placed me on this earth but to excel? 01:26:02.340 --> 01:26:05.120 To stand that mountain, shout and seek heaven, forsake hell 01:26:05.120 --> 01:26:08.300 My lightning whispers instead of yells, and no secrets I must tell 01:26:08.300 --> 01:26:11.580 One day this frame will decay, and this flame will burn and not be held 01:26:11.580 --> 01:26:14.500 I'm fragile, I'm all heartbreak to the moment of my rest 01:26:14.500 --> 01:26:17.660 You see, I'm nothing but a worm as I squirm through the valley of death 01:26:17.660 --> 01:26:21.020 Just like Judas with a breath of lies, my own savior I have denied 01:26:21.020 --> 01:26:24.320 I can see him stretch from my person as a curse, a thing in which he died 01:26:24.320 --> 01:26:27.460 I've cried many times tonight, sighed many times 01:26:27.460 --> 01:26:30.500 I talk to talk without the walk, you can hear it in my rhymes 01:26:30.500 --> 01:26:33.820 Vicious of my enemy's flesh as I look at my own reflection 01:26:33.820 --> 01:26:37.120 Manifest with no direction because I can't stand a subjection 01:26:37.120 --> 01:26:40.120 God, can you hear my cry when I set my face towards the sky? 01:26:40.440 --> 01:26:43.240 Do I suffer in vain with pain as I'm simply strange as a cry? 01:26:43.620 --> 01:26:44.740 Is your son really for me? 01:26:44.980 --> 01:26:46.600 Didn't I die for my selfish habits? 01:26:46.860 --> 01:26:48.420 Then please tell me, Lord, why get mercy? 01:26:48.520 --> 01:26:49.800 You know that I can't hack it 01:26:49.800 --> 01:26:51.300 With an angel lying in front of me 01:26:51.300 --> 01:26:52.920 Am I just too blind to see it? 01:26:52.940 --> 01:26:54.500 I grasp the air with a silent stare 01:26:54.500 --> 01:26:56.080 Your instructions can't believe it 01:26:56.080 --> 01:26:59.180 I long to stand strong, proclaim your love, but I'm too weak 01:26:59.180 --> 01:27:02.580 Now what's this, you call me a mood with the ability to speak? 01:27:02.700 --> 01:27:03.640 I'm so ashamed 01:27:03.640 --> 01:27:18.280 What we see and what we hear determine the things of which we speak 01:27:18.280 --> 01:27:21.220 Out of the treasures of our hearts which we've stored up in each 01:27:21.220 --> 01:27:24.540 What we seek is what we find, selfless pleasures for the day 01:27:24.540 --> 01:27:27.800 We don't often lift our voices, we're ashamed of what we'll say 01:27:27.800 --> 01:27:31.040 What we see and what we hear determine the things of which we speak 01:27:31.040 --> 01:27:33.880 Out of the treasures of our hearts which we've stored up in each 01:27:33.880 --> 01:27:37.240 What we seek is what we find, selfless pleasures for the day 01:27:37.240 --> 01:27:40.440 We don't often lift our voices, we're ashamed of what we'll say 01:27:40.440 --> 01:27:41.920 What we see and what we hear 01:27:41.920 --> 01:27:43.700 Leads over the things of which we speak 01:27:43.700 --> 01:27:45.200 Out of the treasures of our hearts 01:27:45.200 --> 01:27:46.600 Which we've stored up in leagues 01:27:46.600 --> 01:27:48.380 What we seek is what we find 01:27:48.380 --> 01:27:49.940 Selfish pleasures for the day 01:27:49.940 --> 01:27:51.540 We don't often lift our voices 01:27:51.540 --> 01:27:53.160 We're ashamed of what we'll say 01:27:53.160 --> 01:27:55.580 What we see is what we find 01:27:55.580 --> 01:27:57.340 Selfish pleasures 01:27:57.340 --> 01:28:01.100 What we seek is what we find 01:28:01.100 --> 01:28:02.760 Selfish pleasures for the day 01:28:02.760 --> 01:28:04.340 We don't often lift our voices 01:28:04.340 --> 01:28:05.940 We're ashamed of what we'll say 01:28:05.940 --> 01:28:08.220 And the voice within the candle 01:28:08.220 --> 01:28:13.860 Whispers of a timeless peace that lies beyond