WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:23.880 Get ready to mark the planet, get ready, the digital dog park presents binary revolution 00:23.880 --> 00:26.080 radio, now launch the base. 00:30.000 --> 00:51.000 Get ready to mark the planet, get ready to mark the planet, get ready to mark the planet, 00:51.000 --> 01:13.000 hack the system, hack us unite, get ready to mark the planet, hack the planet, hack the 01:13.000 --> 01:20.000 system, hack us unite, get ready to mark the planet, get ready to mark the planet, get ready 01:20.000 --> 01:35.000 to mark the planet, get ready to mark the planet, get ready to mark the planet, get ready to 01:35.000 --> 01:48.960 And it feels finished 01:58.960 --> 02:00.160 To the start 02:00.160 --> 02:02.300 And to see you night 02:02.300 --> 02:08.300 Act this whole night 02:08.300 --> 02:13.140 Now act the planet 02:13.140 --> 02:16.700 Now act the system 02:16.700 --> 02:26.860 Get ready to act the system 02:26.860 --> 02:30.500 Get ready to act the planet 02:32.300 --> 02:44.300 Act this whole night 02:44.300 --> 02:46.300 Act this whole night 02:46.300 --> 02:48.300 Get ready 02:48.300 --> 02:50.300 Act this whole night 02:50.300 --> 03:04.300 Act this whole night 03:04.300 --> 03:08.300 Act this whole night 03:08.300 --> 03:10.300 Act this whole night 03:10.300 --> 03:12.300 Act this whole night 03:12.300 --> 03:13.300 Act this whole night 03:13.300 --> 03:16.300 Act this whole night 03:16.300 --> 03:18.300 Act this whole90s 03:18.300 --> 03:19.300 Act this whole night 03:19.300 --> 03:20.300 vice later 03:20.300 --> 03:22.300 And you to act the system 03:22.300 --> 03:24.300 inge 03:24.300 --> 03:25.300 Act this whole night 03:25.300 --> 03:26.300 Act this whole night 03:26.300 --> 03:27.300 Act this whole night 03:27.300 --> 03:31.300 Act this whole night 03:31.300 --> 03:46.060 you are listening to binary revolution radio revolution will be digitized 03:46.060 --> 03:55.660 this is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers 03:55.660 --> 04:02.380 to the hackers and the crackers i see in binary i speak source code step on my toes i'll post a 04:02.380 --> 04:08.140 million jpegs of you in a fag pose in your digital stance getting firewalled ho because i'm riding 04:08.140 --> 04:14.920 the net in my six foe i was a dick with my 56 now with my cable i'm able to get that stable on the 04:14.920 --> 04:21.180 out my name is ace and i'm a leo on the digital highway my name is neo and i'm a hero in a flash 04:21.180 --> 04:26.740 i'll school you on burning dream packs you need some iso let me through my hard drive rifle our 04:26.740 --> 04:33.000 exchange you could never stifle get a digital hug you just caught the love bug i bootlegged your cd 04:33.000 --> 04:39.120 i caused the fight between un and jc your cg it's all gonna be free whether we take it by force or 04:39.120 --> 04:44.220 we take it nicely you feel that rattling your bones when i tell you we just hacked out jones 04:44.220 --> 04:48.620 and nasdaq leave your fight on your back because i am he who loves to hack and crack 04:48.620 --> 04:54.500 because i am he who loves to hack and crack this is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals 04:54.500 --> 05:02.120 serial code source code isos reds zip sits this is dedicated to the hackers and crack 05:02.120 --> 05:13.220 captain's log negative 320824.25 i am your captain stank dog and we are boldly going where no hacker 05:13.220 --> 05:21.980 has gone before what is negative 32 star i know i can't do this i don't know what the hell's going 05:21.980 --> 05:27.400 on with this star trek stardate stuff and i can't do a william shatner impression this is actually 05:27.400 --> 05:34.280 binary revolution radio we have nothing to do with star trek um but someone on the show today did go 05:34.280 --> 05:38.720 where well i guess we're not where no hacker has gone before but had the interesting trip actually 05:38.720 --> 05:43.660 where many hackers have gone before hopefully and many will again i'm talking about voodoo how 05:43.660 --> 05:52.980 and we're going to get to that soon um before we do uh we're going to jump into email um i had 05:52.980 --> 05:59.460 and this is very short i we had a few responses from people um on last week's episode who agreed that php 05:59.460 --> 06:05.240 nuke is the suck sore everybody has had problems nobody called nobody emailed to back it up which 06:05.240 --> 06:15.700 kind of surprised me actually um and i got a few messages from people uh who appreciated the 06:15.700 --> 06:22.540 comments i made or the explanation about gpa and how not to put too much weight on it now our guest 06:22.540 --> 06:28.420 today voodoo how back again if you listen to last week's show you'll know what we were talking about 06:28.420 --> 06:34.140 there where i mentioned that gpa is not nearly as important as a lot of people make it out to be 06:34.140 --> 06:39.640 now it's important don't get me wrong but in the grand scheme of things i had given the advice that 06:39.640 --> 06:46.480 it was more important to actually get the degree so if you get a degree with a 2.0 or a 3.0 or whatever 06:46.480 --> 06:51.760 at least you get the degree and make the gpa secondary don't worry about getting a 4.0 06:51.760 --> 06:57.020 in your experience do you uh find that to be the case i was definitely i don't know i'm pretty 06:57.020 --> 07:02.020 anal about my own gpa i've always been that way but realistically it doesn't matter i mean as long 07:02.020 --> 07:06.080 as you get the degree you get the degree it doesn't matter if you're the one guy sitting in the back 07:06.080 --> 07:11.900 with like the lowest gpa of the school you still got the degree exact matters now and agree of course 07:11.900 --> 07:17.960 like you said and there's nothing wrong with wanting or striving for a gpa but for a lot of us 07:17.960 --> 07:23.600 and i say us meaning me inclusive a lot of us when you're working full-time and going to school 07:23.600 --> 07:29.220 and doing things on the side and having a couple jobs it's very tedious don't work yourself into 07:29.220 --> 07:34.540 the ground or make yourself sick or stressed out striving to get that perfect gpa because 07:34.540 --> 07:39.440 it's not worth it to destroy your health that's my personal opinion it's not worth it for all the 07:39.440 --> 07:44.480 aggravation that it may be of course strive for success strive for the best gpa you can get 07:44.480 --> 07:48.800 just don't don't get suicidal or anything crazy like that it's not that important 07:48.800 --> 07:54.440 um so i did get some feedbacks uh from people that appreciated those those comments so i'm glad 07:54.440 --> 07:59.040 that somebody uh helped somebody understand it is it is actually true and you're the third you know 07:59.040 --> 08:03.440 we talked about it last week and you help give some credibility that we are not making this up it is 08:03.440 --> 08:07.940 you know it's more important that you just get the degree and your talent and your skills will prove 08:07.940 --> 08:14.400 that you can handle jobs once you get in the job market now oh and i also wanted to make a reminder 08:14.400 --> 08:19.560 if you're going to send feedback to the show you should be sending it to letters at binrev.com 08:19.560 --> 08:26.800 um any other email addresses you send it to we may not check them as regularly as we do the letters 08:26.800 --> 08:31.600 at binrev.com address i try to check that before we start recording the show each week to see if 08:31.600 --> 08:36.300 there's any feedback and any comments or research i need to do before the next show so if you send them 08:36.300 --> 08:41.040 to some of the other addresses or some of my personal addresses i may not check them all as frequently 08:41.040 --> 08:48.480 as i could and should now um obviously i'm just uh introduced you to voodoo hal is on the show this 08:48.480 --> 08:57.220 week um and he's got a lot to talk about he went on the coolest trip um it's probably better i guess 08:57.220 --> 09:02.620 for the show if i get some of my short little dumbass things out of the way and then turn it over 09:02.620 --> 09:09.760 to you because you spent the weekend at freaknik so i'm sure that you've got lots of stories to share 09:09.760 --> 09:17.320 and probably some that you don't want to share so um when i say my dumbass stories this time i 09:17.320 --> 09:23.360 really mean it i uh talked about on the show last week how um while working on the site i was doing 09:23.360 --> 09:29.900 some plugging in some modules to the um geek log format that i use um content management system 09:29.900 --> 09:35.840 and a weather module well the weather module didn't have my hometown not my hometown where i live 09:35.840 --> 09:40.560 on it so i'm in there going straight to the database hacking away at this thing 09:40.560 --> 09:46.820 and long story short it turns out i am a complete dumbass i never bothered to look at the configuration 09:46.820 --> 09:53.320 for it it has a menu system that allows you to easily add any place you want by just typing in 09:53.320 --> 09:58.600 the zip code and clicking include but of course i didn't do that i went in and installed it and 09:58.600 --> 10:02.840 immediately started digging through the actual database itself and the code i didn't actually look 10:02.840 --> 10:08.080 at the interface like a user should so i wasted time i guess i didn't waste time it was actually 10:08.080 --> 10:12.900 learned a lot kind of fun to do it and like i said before i'm starting to like php a lot more 10:12.900 --> 10:19.760 um and mysql so i felt kind of stupid when i saw that when i went to the site when i went to the actual 10:19.760 --> 10:23.740 user front end of it i'm like yeah i hacked the hell out of this i got what i wanted and i'm like 10:23.740 --> 10:30.820 don't there it was the whole time so i felt kind of stupid um and actually we are recording the show 10:30.820 --> 10:35.740 earlier than usual a little earlier than usual because i'm actually heading upstate 10:35.740 --> 10:43.040 um monday i'm going to be out of town um for just for a day a long long day but one day nonetheless 10:43.040 --> 10:48.240 so we're recording this early and uh so we can stream this i'll be back just in time to stream 10:48.240 --> 10:57.760 the show so um that is going to be a rough couple of days so if anybody doesn't see me or doesn't hear 10:57.760 --> 11:02.580 from me for a few days you know why and i also wanted to mention i mentioned this on the forums 11:02.580 --> 11:09.840 but we also started filming some stuff for hack tv finally now this is the bottom of our priority list 11:09.840 --> 11:15.160 i have a lot of other projects going on we have the magazine coming up again um i've been as everyone 11:15.160 --> 11:20.420 knows i've been recoding of sites redesigning everything and updating and hosting you know 11:20.420 --> 11:25.700 all that kind of stuff so this is on the bottom priority but i finally have made time sito and 11:25.700 --> 11:32.540 myself have been filming earlier this week we filmed a bunch of the intro stuff um it's it's surprisingly 11:32.540 --> 11:39.340 fun i have to admit it feels kind of corny doing it some of this stuff but it's really a lot more fun 11:39.340 --> 11:45.440 than i thought it was going to be i have to admit um hopefully by the end of this year 11:45.440 --> 11:52.040 we will have the episode done edited out the door and everything um there's not going to be any more 11:52.040 --> 11:58.200 teasers or trailers or anything like that it's going to be the final version whenever it gets done and 11:58.200 --> 12:03.200 depending on how much footage we get and how much film we were originally going to do 30 minute episodes 12:03.200 --> 12:09.280 um but we're finding out it may actually be longer than that we don't we i guess we just really aren't 12:09.280 --> 12:15.360 going to know until we get it all together until we get all of the the segments done and edited and 12:15.360 --> 12:19.880 see how it works out so we're not going to even lock ourselves into any lengths or anything like that 12:19.880 --> 12:26.020 we're going to just wing it see how it goes and when it's done i'm almost positive i've already seen 12:26.020 --> 12:30.900 some of sito's work on some other projects he's done it's great work uh he and i are very much 12:30.900 --> 12:34.760 working together i mean it it feels kind of corny i said that earlier it's kind of corny because 12:34.760 --> 12:39.980 we're actually sitting back looking at the camera and thinking okay what angle should we do this and 12:39.980 --> 12:45.000 we got to put the camera here we want to make sure we get this so um it's going to actually be very 12:45.000 --> 12:49.600 well done i think obviously i'm probably a little bit biased so you guys can be the judge when it 12:49.600 --> 12:56.300 comes out but there is some progress on HackTV so i thought I'd share that um again hopefully by the 12:56.300 --> 12:59.940 end of the year so don't get your hopes up too awful much for it being soon but i just want to give 12:59.940 --> 13:07.760 you a taste and finally for me the same thing i say pretty much it seems like every show windows XP is 13:07.760 --> 13:17.380 the suck sore it absolutely sucks so horribly bad again my machine has died it's back up now obviously 13:17.380 --> 13:23.360 because i'm recording but my machine died and it will not reboot it will not come back up the errors 13:23.360 --> 13:29.640 that it gives in the i can boot into safe mode and the errors that it gives in the logs are useless 13:29.640 --> 13:37.000 they're absolutely total garbage and when you go and report them to microsoft and you go look up 13:37.000 --> 13:42.380 support and you go look on technet and you go look on everything that microsoft has the only mention and 13:42.380 --> 13:47.220 you have to look pretty hard to find it the only mention of the solution is to reinstall windows XP 13:47.220 --> 13:53.340 well this that's fine i reinstall windows XP and the next time the system reboots or shuts down 13:53.340 --> 13:59.440 it won't come back up again so i'm not reinstalling windows XP every time this damn thing boots 13:59.440 --> 14:05.260 just not that's ridiculous that's not an excuse so i went out looking on the the internet in general 14:05.260 --> 14:09.760 and some tech support places and i'm not the only person having this problem several people have this 14:09.760 --> 14:15.700 problem yet microsoft has nothing and all actually on all the tech support sites that i found all the 14:15.700 --> 14:20.400 forums all the places i found when i googled for these error messages nobody else had figured out 14:20.400 --> 14:26.020 a solution either so this is just some mysterious microsoft oversight that they just pretend doesn't 14:26.020 --> 14:34.420 exist i guess so we use this time as a plug for open source we absolutely i'm linux right i so badly 14:34.420 --> 14:41.800 want to go 100 percent linux i so i want to get off this so bad i just have this one machine it's the 14:41.800 --> 14:46.780 one machine i record the show on and play games on i'll give you that that's only reason i even 14:46.780 --> 14:53.980 have windows it's the only reason but i can't i just haven't been able to get off of it yet every 14:53.980 --> 15:00.080 time something like this happens that much more that much more it pushes me to just cold turkey 15:00.080 --> 15:06.220 turning it off and saying you know what forget about it but that would sacrifice the show and 15:06.220 --> 15:12.380 just oh it's so horrible of a position to be in that i want so bad to get away and 15:12.380 --> 15:19.880 they keep pulling me back in so microsoft sucks microsoft sucks microsoft sucks microsoft sucks 15:19.880 --> 15:25.720 particularly microsoft windows xp sucks so that pretty much sums up my week 15:25.720 --> 15:31.100 now you as i mentioned earlier the reason i kind of jumped in there i didn't mean to be rude but i 15:31.100 --> 15:36.620 know that you've got a lot of stuff to talk about um particularly and i guess we should probably jump 15:36.620 --> 15:40.860 into this first since this is the most interesting thing i think to our listeners is you spent the 15:40.860 --> 15:47.200 weekend and well at freak nick and why don't you talk a little bit about that uh yep freak nick is um 15:47.200 --> 15:53.860 hacker con in nashville he'll put on about the c2600 uh spent all weekend there watching some great 15:53.860 --> 15:59.340 talk stuff on uh the history of artificial intelligence and where was it again i'm sorry 15:59.340 --> 16:05.060 where yeah nashville tennessee okay um yeah if for all of you who would think there wouldn't be a 16:05.060 --> 16:10.900 hacker con in tennessee think again surprise surprise there's even one in georgia which is scarier i don't 16:10.900 --> 16:15.180 know if there's one in alabama but we'll see take a left at the cornfield turn right at the second 16:15.180 --> 16:21.520 scarecrow exactly and all of a sudden they're a bunch of nerds but no realistically it was a great con 16:21.520 --> 16:28.260 um lots of alcohol i mean uh talks uh i volunteered for the con for a little bit it was it was 16:28.260 --> 16:35.920 interesting um but just a bunch of great talks really um now for for volunteering for the con did 16:35.920 --> 16:39.720 that give you like free pass or free tickets or anything or pretty much they reimbursed me for 16:39.720 --> 16:43.880 the cost of the con which that works i mean it wasn't that expensive to begin with but it was 16:43.880 --> 16:48.460 something i didn't mind helping out oh that's cool how much how much is how much was the con if you 16:48.460 --> 16:52.780 stayed at the hotel for the weekend it was only actually ten bucks so it wasn't like i was 16:52.780 --> 16:57.720 reimbursed all that much but again it was nice helping out um got to really meet a lot of people 16:57.720 --> 17:01.900 that you hear lots of things about um i was telling you earlier we i met the guy with the 17:01.900 --> 17:06.840 whole blackboard thing he's actually really talented now you said um that was acidous right yeah 17:06.840 --> 17:12.700 but overall a great weekend um still trying to recover lots of alcohol again and 17:12.700 --> 17:20.060 yeah now acidous did not give a presentation on blackboard right no but he did do um a surprise 17:20.060 --> 17:26.100 presentation on saturday apparently there wasn't uh anything scheduled for that time so they let him 17:26.100 --> 17:32.080 do a presentation on the art of a hack where he talks about um not necessarily different types of 17:32.080 --> 17:38.100 attacks but mostly the mindset of attacking breaking things down into smaller uh subsections 17:38.100 --> 17:43.140 looking at them at their base levels trying to figure out the alternate ways to get in things 17:43.140 --> 17:48.860 it was a really good talk actually yeah sounds very interesting uh but overall just a great weekend 17:48.860 --> 17:57.200 and um that started on a let's see a friday afternoon you said right uh yep uh we got there about 17:57.200 --> 18:02.740 12 30 the opening talk well it wasn't really a talk i guess it was the welcome started at one 18:02.740 --> 18:09.900 um and they just kind of went every hour after that um great talks uh one on community community radio 18:09.900 --> 18:16.700 panel um i mean it was just really good overall was there any were there any keynote speakers or special 18:16.700 --> 18:24.320 um no mostly everybody who talked was from the um the fc 2600 group um actually quite a few people 18:24.320 --> 18:28.680 came down from like ohio which i don't really think they're part of that whole group but you know 18:28.680 --> 18:33.960 they're close enough to come um the most notable talk for me which i don't know cryptography is 18:33.960 --> 18:40.140 something i really enjoy um and one talk was given called the cryptography for masochists uh 18:40.140 --> 18:48.480 done by elanka if you guys check out www.elonka.com um she's working on she and a group of people are 18:48.480 --> 18:54.920 working on cracking this piece of artwork um that's in the middle of the cia's um courtyard 18:54.920 --> 19:00.580 and apparently the guy's done tons of other types of cryptographic artwork and it's a really 19:00.580 --> 19:03.880 cool project you guys should check it out if you're interested in it um but that was that was 19:03.880 --> 19:10.540 the highlight for me well why don't you explain what exactly is cryptographic artwork um let's see 19:10.540 --> 19:15.400 okay if you guys do a search on google or any other search engine but we'll say google because google is 19:15.400 --> 19:25.400 god uh and look out look for the cyrillic projector c-y-r-e-l-l-i-c i believe projector or cryptos 19:25.400 --> 19:29.760 it'll probably be the first couple of things and you can see images of it it's literally a piece of 19:29.760 --> 19:36.180 artwork with cryptographic messages on it um the projector is beautiful it's it's it from the images 19:36.180 --> 19:42.520 i've seen it's um lit from the inside and it projects at night out onto the walls and you see 19:42.520 --> 19:47.400 and it's um i believe they said it was in russian so you see this cryptographic message in russian 19:47.400 --> 19:55.200 being projected across this area and it's beautiful geeky but beautiful yeah and it's supposed to it's 19:55.200 --> 20:02.220 intended to have message in there yes um actually the on one part of cryptos i believe it was it might 20:02.220 --> 20:09.740 have been the projector one was an an old declassified k-classified memo um that the other the artist had his 20:09.740 --> 20:16.000 hands-on and put it in there the other was uh one part of it one part of an excerpt from them the 20:16.000 --> 20:22.620 diaries of the man who found uh king tut's tomb um it's just really interesting things wow yeah and 20:22.620 --> 20:28.880 one actually involves um latitude and longitude locations which points directly to i think they 20:28.880 --> 20:34.220 said that they went to the locations and it's literally just a manhole cover um i'm the cia's 20:34.220 --> 20:39.780 headquarters but but the passage before it talks about having something hidden underground 20:39.780 --> 20:43.980 and they haven't got to test that or check on that at all but i mean it's really intriguing 20:43.980 --> 20:50.360 but we're not gonna we don't have any conspiracy theories that there's something hidden in there 20:50.360 --> 20:54.760 no no no they're putting out for people right this is the interesting thing though and she talked 20:54.760 --> 20:59.580 about this in her talk was that the artist wasn't the one coming up with these cryptographic schemes 20:59.580 --> 21:06.440 to use the actual person was like the head of the cia's uh graphic part of their the cia uh for years 21:06.440 --> 21:11.500 who retired and who was actually doing the cryptography for it so that was kind of cool 21:11.500 --> 21:18.640 um were there any other um any other presentations that stood out per se or anybody did you meet 21:18.640 --> 21:23.700 anybody else interesting there i know you met up with uh someone from the forums yeah we met lock 21:23.700 --> 21:29.080 there um i don't know he hasn't been very active on the board but he's there um let's see 21:29.080 --> 21:36.260 other interesting things oh the dash pc project the uh computer car stuff there were some tight 21:36.260 --> 21:41.520 cars there very nice yeah and we had talked about this on a previous episode about um you putting 21:41.520 --> 21:47.800 together a ghetto-fied i just made up a word ghetto-fied a ghetto-fied uh car computer yes these 21:47.800 --> 21:53.020 definitely weren't ghetto-fied ah see these were these were the big money stuff huh i mean like one 21:53.020 --> 21:57.080 guy's car he wasn't i mean the car wasn't like high-end car but i mean the work that he put 21:57.080 --> 22:04.020 into it was great um he had one of the retractable lcd displays um i mean everything it was great 22:04.020 --> 22:09.500 they also had one guy with this little miata the miata was had all this stuff worked under the engine 22:09.500 --> 22:13.440 but the computer itself was the part i was interested in but that was probably one of the 22:13.440 --> 22:17.180 most notable quotes that came out of the whole thing this one guy was standing there and he goes 22:17.180 --> 22:21.300 yeah raw ross this boom bob the linux car is great and all but i like the engine 22:21.300 --> 22:29.200 well actually i thought it was funny off offline i think you actually told me a better quote from 22:29.200 --> 22:35.960 the con oh i don't know if you wanted something about a snow cone or oh the the uh hillbilly 22:35.960 --> 22:42.900 hackers is what i like to call them yeah the uh i got a snow cone these these country guys were 22:42.900 --> 22:48.820 running around uh well it is tennessee now oh yeah uh but i'm sure they're from somewhere else 22:48.820 --> 22:55.800 um but yeah running around with alcohol uh covered snow cones so if any of you guys have ideas for 22:55.800 --> 23:00.000 parties that might be a good one that sounds actually that might that sounds like i'd give 23:00.000 --> 23:07.960 that a try but yeah a great weekend overall so you uh you went right down there con was already 23:07.960 --> 23:12.020 going right right you got there right as it started right you turn around and came back and you got 23:12.020 --> 23:16.080 to go straight to work exactly well i came back last night because i really didn't want to have 23:16.080 --> 23:22.220 to drive then go to sleep then get back up and yeah actually after i got back i slept for 14 hours so 23:22.220 --> 23:28.320 now was this would you say this was crowded or this was this was your you you have not been to 23:28.320 --> 23:32.220 another big con like this before right i was actually impressed they actually had more of a 23:32.220 --> 23:36.500 turnout than they thought they were going to have um do we have any numbers or they were expecting 23:36.500 --> 23:41.940 three to four hundred which was cool and all but they actually extended to like two different 23:41.940 --> 23:47.060 more rooms so apparently they had a lot more than they thought so much so that we didn't have 23:47.060 --> 23:52.720 wireless access at all it's in our room it sucked um they were only expecting to have the first floor 23:52.720 --> 23:57.240 through i think seventh eighth and ninth and since we got stuck on the fourth we were right in the 23:57.240 --> 24:04.580 middle of any access point so that's the only thing that did suck um oh i didn't tell you about 24:04.580 --> 24:08.960 this but it was quite funny um we were warned when we got there that any if anybody checked their 24:08.960 --> 24:14.020 emails or anything with unencrypted protocols for instance pop three but they were going to post 24:14.020 --> 24:18.580 any usernames and passwords that they found on a big board yeah i think that's standard fair for 24:18.580 --> 24:22.060 most cons from what i've seen first 20 minutes i'm there i'm thinking all right i'm not going to 24:22.060 --> 24:26.980 check anything fire up my laptop completely forget about running wm pop three which is a pop three 24:26.980 --> 24:32.880 checker for a window manager doc app so i had to spend the next 30 minutes logging into every 24:32.880 --> 24:39.100 account that i had changing my passwords oh jeez i didn't mind i guess i get a longer password out 24:39.100 --> 24:44.960 of the deal it went from i think 17 characters to 19 but it's just harder to type yeah right that's 24:44.960 --> 24:51.100 so they put you on the wall of shame actually no i got lucky um afterwards i found out that they 24:51.100 --> 24:55.640 were locking everything but the mechanism for locking the passwords failed for some odd reason 24:55.640 --> 25:01.240 so i got lucky and did all that for nothing but hey you know well you know it's time to change 25:01.240 --> 25:07.200 them anyway exactly well yeah i mean i really i really want to start going to more and more of 25:07.200 --> 25:13.000 these we've already talked about how we're almost definitely going to the next hope conference whenever 25:13.000 --> 25:20.540 that turns out to be h2k4 h2k5 whatever hopefully it's h2k4 but mute and i were talking it's boy it's 25:20.540 --> 25:27.180 awful late in the game yeah to get it up and established and ready for july which is supposedly when 25:27.180 --> 25:31.580 they do it normally i guess they could make it towards the end of the year end of 2004 i don't 25:31.580 --> 25:37.720 know why it's july is the date but or june july whenever it is um but i guess we'll see i mean 25:37.720 --> 25:41.160 they you would think they would have announced something by now yeah i've decided if they're 25:41.160 --> 25:46.560 not going to do an h2k4 i'm going to do defcon next year but if they do then h2k4 is my intended 25:46.560 --> 25:51.120 place to go yeah i'm going to try to make those two big ones for sure i'm going to try to make the 25:51.120 --> 25:56.080 next defcon and i'm going to try to make the h2k whatever whenever it is and if i can squeeze in 25:56.080 --> 26:02.000 one or two more during that time so be it but those two i'm definitely definitely going to try 26:02.000 --> 26:07.940 to to make it too well and just uh up uh heads up in april they're actually doing one in atlanta 26:07.940 --> 26:12.840 called um interzone so if you can make it up for that that'd be great yeah and i've talked about 26:12.840 --> 26:18.440 that on the show before that's um you mentioned acidus earlier um both he and virgil on the blackboard 26:18.440 --> 26:24.100 situation i have some experience with blackboard and i um mentioned that on the show before but 26:24.100 --> 26:31.360 also i sent some information into them uh hopefully to help out with their lawsuit um i haven't heard 26:31.360 --> 26:35.620 anything from them lately hopefully it was helpful i don't i don't know i haven't heard much from them 26:35.620 --> 26:40.440 um but yeah i would wouldn't mind going to that i mentioned that in the year before too and that's 26:40.440 --> 26:45.280 in atlanta which is a little closer to me but basically i'm far away from everything yeah you are like 26:45.280 --> 26:51.580 the tip of the country yeah i am i am on the tip i'm on the dick of the united states i am hanging 26:51.580 --> 26:57.480 off down in the southeast i'm way down at the bottom so yeah anything is i mean i'm flying 26:57.480 --> 27:04.100 anywhere i'm not driving and i mean if there was something in orlando ever which i'm surprised 27:04.100 --> 27:09.820 there's not actually that would be a nice place i guess just as good as atlanta then revcon there you 27:09.820 --> 27:18.020 go yeah hey one day you never know you never know um don't rule it out don't rule it out now see now 27:18.020 --> 27:22.120 i got everybody's hopes all up i'm going to be getting emails about oh no they're going no no no 27:22.120 --> 27:26.960 no no no i'm saying maybe a long way down there yes thank god that what does that sound like i'm 27:26.960 --> 27:34.680 going to have a bunch of porn industry people show up to something like that yeah well good i i like 27:34.680 --> 27:38.900 hearing about it i like uh i like to hear what kind of um presentations they gave now are they 27:38.900 --> 27:43.720 going to make them available can you go to the website and download the presentations is something 27:43.720 --> 27:48.280 you have to buy or order they sell them or they were recording them the only one that they didn't 27:48.280 --> 27:53.700 record was um the art of the hack apparently it was so short notice this was something he'd been 27:53.700 --> 27:58.060 working on that hadn't finished so he wasn't really ready for it to be released right so that's 27:58.060 --> 28:01.980 the only one that they said isn't going to be available um but apparently he's going to be 28:01.980 --> 28:06.720 re-releasing that later um once he gets it polished and everything um but yeah they did record 28:06.720 --> 28:11.100 everything they actually put everything over closed circuit tv in the hotel so in case you didn't get 28:11.100 --> 28:14.500 to make it you know you could watch it in your hotel room which we watched quite a few of them in 28:14.500 --> 28:21.600 our hotel room just because it's more comfortable there yeah yeah i can imagine um did now you say 28:21.600 --> 28:27.020 they recorded them were you were were the uh visitors allowed to bring in video cameras and stuff yeah 28:27.020 --> 28:32.800 the visitors were allowed to uh bring anything they like um record with and in fact a couple 28:32.800 --> 28:38.040 were so hammered they were walking around recording everything well you know that might be us if we 28:38.040 --> 28:44.840 go that might be hack tv footage there and that's what that's what sucked um everybody who i went with 28:44.840 --> 28:51.320 or came with me forgot to bring a camera so we have no pictures oh that stinks yeah well i'm sure 28:51.320 --> 28:55.740 some people will put them up online if they have some and uh we'll we'll get some pictures from other 28:55.740 --> 28:59.160 people yeah it would have been nice i wish i could have made it and could have filmed some stuff we 28:59.160 --> 29:06.180 could have done a few things but uh what are you gonna do yeah now not only you know you mentioned that 29:06.180 --> 29:13.520 how they they were sniffing for passwords and stuff like that um it's it's a little too short it doesn't 29:13.520 --> 29:18.100 it's only for a couple days so it's a little too short to have like real war games per se 29:18.100 --> 29:22.820 but i know you've also before you left you had kind of been playing around with some of the online 29:22.820 --> 29:29.360 war games lately you want to right well i always enjoyed like um i like war gaming in the sense of 29:29.360 --> 29:33.020 you know sticking multiple machines on a network and going at it um the ones i've been playing lately 29:33.020 --> 29:37.880 are the more puzzle type things you get stuck in a shell you give a you're going to set your id 29:37.880 --> 29:41.800 program you have to figure out how to exploit it to get to the next level um there are a couple out 29:41.800 --> 29:48.220 there hackers lab dot org i think it is maybe hackers lab dot com um the other one i've been 29:48.220 --> 29:53.100 playing on lately or started on the night before the con was uh the croatian war gaming thing and 29:53.100 --> 29:59.900 there's actually um on the BiRnev forums is a link somewhere in the links part of the forum about it 29:59.900 --> 30:06.500 it's a great game yeah and and that's it just makes me so makes me wish i had some more time to do 30:06.500 --> 30:11.620 some of these things because i like to read and follow along to the posts and listen to what you 30:11.620 --> 30:15.860 guys are doing i just don't have the time to get in there and do it myself unfortunately right so 30:15.860 --> 30:21.560 hopefully in the future i'll be something i'd like to be getting into and um these are not necessarily 30:21.560 --> 30:26.500 new i mean these these war games have been out for a while why haven't they oh definitely yeah so 30:26.500 --> 30:32.960 maybe um maybe sometime soon and we either maybe we can make a new war game or i know some people 30:32.960 --> 30:38.060 come in the forum sometime and post that they've thrown up a box you know it's not exactly a war 30:38.060 --> 30:43.080 game to me it's like okay here's my box let's hammer away and hack at it well that's fun in and of in 30:43.080 --> 30:47.880 and of itself but a little bit more organized thing of levels where you kind of feel like you're you 30:47.880 --> 30:53.020 know you have good stopping points and stuff like that and goals that's kind of a little bit more fun 30:53.020 --> 30:59.180 so i'd like to see more of those type of organized war games right and maybe who knows maybe a BinRev 30:59.180 --> 31:04.320 one yeah and maybe maybe that's something we can we can talk about it's another project um 31:04.320 --> 31:09.740 actually make exactly what we said make some steps some goals and accomplishments put in maybe even 31:09.740 --> 31:16.540 put some prizes or something like that up um yeah that's very much a possibility we we have we have 31:16.540 --> 31:21.340 the boxes to do it we have the boxes i can put a box or two online to do it um 31:21.340 --> 31:29.360 hmm yeah we'll have to talk about that we'll have to talk about that well i guess let's jump into 31:29.360 --> 31:38.440 some news um speak let's see segue from war games into microsoft security that's not too difficult is 31:38.440 --> 31:49.020 it um microsoft is actually having yet another security push yes again another one and this time we're 31:49.020 --> 31:52.700 going to believe it right yeah what are they doing removing the network core yeah they're gonna 31:52.700 --> 31:57.200 they're gonna um uninstall windows i think is the only thing that would make it secure 31:57.200 --> 32:02.600 um no actually what they've what they're announcing this time is uh this is supposed to be in mid 32:02.600 --> 32:09.420 2004 so it's still what is that six eight months off somewhere somewhere around there they're supposed 32:09.420 --> 32:16.520 to be releasing what they call microsoft software update service 2.0 that they're going to use that's 32:16.520 --> 32:22.240 going to support other platforms now no not that kind of other platforms other platforms as in 32:22.240 --> 32:29.140 microsoft exchange microsoft sql server microsoft office that kind of thing no you know they're not 32:29.140 --> 32:35.020 going to touch anything non-microsoft microsoft linux update yeah that would be oh good thing to see 32:35.020 --> 32:41.700 man hey i wouldn't put anything past them linux for windows i swear they did os2 warp for windows 32:41.700 --> 32:47.820 always two for windows one time remember that oh yeah what a monster that was anyway and uh they're 32:47.820 --> 32:55.060 also announcing microsoft windows xp service pack 2 that's going to be coming up in september of 2004 32:55.060 --> 33:02.160 supposedly and you know i i this was from one of my trade magazines and you and i laughed about this 33:02.160 --> 33:07.000 earlier actually you caught it i didn't even catch it until i reread the article they their quote from 33:07.000 --> 33:14.580 this article was that it was going to reduce buffer underruns and other vulnerabilities i don't think 33:14.580 --> 33:22.300 they meant buffer underruns did they i hope not i think they meant buffer overflows um i guess they 33:22.300 --> 33:29.340 could hey if they want to enhance cd burning hey i'll take it sure whatever um but yeah supposedly 33:29.340 --> 33:37.600 and service pack 2 i guess this is their next go around at pushing security so it i guess i'll be 33:37.600 --> 33:43.360 open-minded and say we'll see but yeah we'll see all right we'll we'll see how many boxes get 33:43.360 --> 33:48.820 compromised the same as they have been all this other times i don't think it's going to change i've 33:48.820 --> 33:53.100 been arguing the fact that they should do more like and i'm not a big red hat fan i know some people 33:53.100 --> 33:56.840 are out there and it's not nothing wrong with red hat it's just not my thing but red hat at least 33:56.840 --> 34:00.520 gives you options of okay what are you going to be doing with this box you know if they gave 34:00.520 --> 34:06.640 questions like that because how many home users need decom and need rpc right now hopefully they'll 34:06.640 --> 34:10.580 lose something right but maybe like go out of business i think that would be the smartest yeah 34:10.580 --> 34:16.360 well you know and unfortunately the real the real realism of the thing the realistic fact is how many 34:16.360 --> 34:22.820 home users would use linux or use red hat so until we break that barrier you know talking the 34:22.820 --> 34:28.080 details of what they would need and stuff beyond that are kind of we got to get them to use it 34:28.080 --> 34:33.160 first you know right well that's what i mean in the microsoft world if they even on the installation 34:33.160 --> 34:37.840 if they ask you are you going to be trying to use iis on your box are you going to be serving up this 34:37.840 --> 34:43.160 stuff you know disabling some things rather than microsoft's well let's make everything easy for 34:43.160 --> 34:50.640 the user let's enable everything for them yeah and and i did a review of um windows server 2003 34:50.640 --> 34:59.220 back on um rfa i don't remember what episode quite a while back on the beta of that um and they do 34:59.220 --> 35:06.420 that somewhat now it's a server os so it's not for home users first of all but that is one thing that 35:06.420 --> 35:13.500 they did they came up and on the install gave you a list and said okay what do you want this server to 35:13.500 --> 35:21.660 do and give you the minimum requirements okay you want to do an iis server we'll only set up iis 35:21.660 --> 35:27.060 the minimum and they don't install all the other crap and it goes along with it if you need 35:27.060 --> 35:33.460 streaming media server if you need sql server if you need whatever you had those choices that you 35:33.460 --> 35:39.880 could select the same way that red hat or some other distros do you could install some minimums for 35:39.880 --> 35:45.880 a change now again that's on the server product if they extend that into to longhorn or whatever 35:45.880 --> 35:52.820 their next and whenever their next uh home user os comes out you know that'd be great but 35:52.820 --> 36:01.360 they'll cater to the lowest common denominator like they always do this is true anyway what are we going 36:01.360 --> 36:07.000 to do about that nothing they're microsoft you know they're going to do it and the longer they do 36:07.000 --> 36:12.280 it the better it is for linux users and for the linux community and it'll hopefully catch on so 36:12.280 --> 36:16.360 hey they can keep shooting themselves in the foot eventually they're going to run out of toes 36:17.720 --> 36:20.280 um another topic and this is 36:22.600 --> 36:27.560 something that i usually will get me into a rant but it i'm going to approach it analytically this time 36:27.560 --> 36:36.680 um and that is telemarketing um as regular listeners know and just any anybody who's following the 36:36.680 --> 36:42.680 news um particularly hackers digital rights they would know that we have the do not call list which 36:42.680 --> 36:52.840 was instituted recently although it's being fought um there are like every other law that we create in 36:52.840 --> 36:56.760 this country and i'm not going to go into a rant but i'm going to say they're done half-assed they 36:56.760 --> 37:03.000 don't think them all the way through and you end up with loopholes and telemarketers are finding and 37:03.000 --> 37:09.960 exploiting these loopholes so i thought I'd share some of these and um jump in if you if you want 37:09.960 --> 37:14.680 to add to any of these i basically have a list and this is i pretty much made this list up myself of 37:14.680 --> 37:25.320 stuff that i've seen and read about so um the first thing is that and this i actually did read an article 37:25.880 --> 37:30.600 that they are going to start as compensator not compensation as a replacement i guess 37:31.240 --> 37:35.960 for missing out on phone calls they're actually going to start reverting back and sending 37:36.840 --> 37:44.760 actual junk mail old-fashioned snail mail so don't be surprised if you start getting a lot more junk 37:44.760 --> 37:52.200 mail and i gotta admit i kind of i mean i've always got junk mail in my regular snail mail but it does seem 37:52.200 --> 37:57.640 to be starting to pick up lately maybe it's just my imagination but not only that what i predict is 37:57.640 --> 38:02.520 going to happen is that not only are they going to start sending out more junk mail but it's going to 38:02.520 --> 38:11.080 be mail that teases you or entices you or offers you something for you to call them for you to call 38:11.080 --> 38:18.200 an 800 number like a lot more of the what are the publishers clearinghouse type things where you call an 38:18.200 --> 38:23.640 800 number or you call and we'll give you this free sample or we'll give you whatever and try to trigger 38:23.640 --> 38:29.720 people to call in instead of since you since they can't call the consumers try to fool the consumers 38:29.720 --> 38:37.160 into calling them right enticing inbound telemarketing exactly exactly and i don't know do you think people 38:37.160 --> 38:41.240 are going to fall for that or do you think you know i know a lot of people you get an offer for something 38:41.240 --> 38:48.920 free they will jump all over it and um i guess i do that too to a certain extent but boy i don't know 38:48.920 --> 38:52.520 what they could offer or how they're going to actually get people to start calling them that's 38:52.520 --> 38:59.800 going to be i'm not sure how that's going to work out plus the cost of of sending that stuff out and 38:59.800 --> 39:04.600 then the cost of calling in the 800 numbers and stuff i don't know if it's worthwhile for them 39:04.600 --> 39:10.840 financially but supposedly that is uh i saw that on a local newspaper actually i think saw that that 39:10.840 --> 39:15.960 said um that the junk mail was going to start the snail mail was going to start to increase because of that 39:15.960 --> 39:23.960 so um there's also if you read in to the code there is a loophole in there for charities an 39:23.960 --> 39:27.720 exception i should say not a loophole an exception for charities and political groups 39:28.600 --> 39:34.360 these are the ones that i hate hearing from more than anything no i don't want to buy policeman ball 39:34.360 --> 39:39.480 tickets i don't want to buy your your you know this this crap and i don't want to hear from 39:40.280 --> 39:45.720 any political figure i don't care okay you're the president you want me to vote for you again don't call 39:45.720 --> 39:50.040 me let me make that decision oh you're running for president to try to overthrow the president 39:50.040 --> 39:55.000 i don't want to hear from you either if you're the mayor you're the i don't want to hear from anybody 39:55.000 --> 40:01.080 don't solicit votes over the phone the same way you don't solicit sales over the phone it's just so 40:01.080 --> 40:06.520 tacky and if anything it makes me think less of you and actually makes me not want to vote for you 40:06.520 --> 40:13.240 when i get that am i all am i is that just a me thing or oh god no that's one of my i actually uh 40:13.240 --> 40:18.920 made the mistake of being drawn into a telemarketing job here back in high school 40:18.920 --> 40:23.640 yeah i thought i was like the lowliest of the low i mean i thought i was gutter scum for the 40:23.640 --> 40:29.800 whole three days that i decided to do it yeah i i we've all i think a lot of us anyway have been 40:29.800 --> 40:36.520 through that in in college high school i think i lasted two or three weeks at mine but that's kind 40:36.520 --> 40:42.440 of because i was having fun they ended up uh not firing but threatening to get rid of me because i 40:42.440 --> 40:47.320 was talking back to the customers and having fun with them and stuff like that and actually not 40:47.320 --> 40:53.160 doing the job so they were going to let me go anyway when i left but yeah it was um it was just 40:54.600 --> 41:00.520 made you realize that you'd hit rock bottom this is very true and i have a quick question to pose to 41:00.520 --> 41:06.360 the listeners out there um and you can email your answers to me directly at voodoo at binrev um 41:06.360 --> 41:11.640 how many of you have had experience in other countries who've lived there i would like to know 41:11.640 --> 41:18.280 how prominent this type of thing is outside of the us that's a good question and i have no idea the 41:18.280 --> 41:24.040 answer i mean do you think they get as much or more i i can't i can't imagine that they do 41:24.040 --> 41:32.440 i could imagine more i don't think hell has more spam and telemarketers than we do probably 41:33.560 --> 41:38.600 yeah that's that's a good question yeah if anybody you know we do have a very diverse audience we have 41:38.600 --> 41:43.320 listeners from other countries so yes by all means take them up on that in email and uh we'll we'll 41:43.320 --> 41:48.840 follow back up on a future episode and and see what the results of that are that's a good question I'd i 41:48.840 --> 41:55.480 would be interested to hear the answers to that um there is another loophole now this is the one that 41:55.480 --> 42:02.360 really these these two next ones are combined and these are the ones that really get me mad there's a 42:02.360 --> 42:12.040 loophole that allows companies to call quote unquote existing customers now the definition of what is an 42:12.040 --> 42:18.680 existing customer is very vague i mean if i ordered something from a company five years ago 42:18.680 --> 42:24.120 ten years ago and it was just a one-time order you know does that now give them the right to forever 42:24.120 --> 42:29.080 bug the hell out of me and what if it wasn't what if i didn't even order what if it was a call for 42:29.080 --> 42:34.200 information yet they stuck me on their database and i am now a customer because i called for you know 42:35.080 --> 42:41.880 the the definition is very vague but the worst part of this the this isn't this is more than a loophole 42:41.880 --> 42:49.480 this is just a complete oversight in a stupid one at that the loophole is that they can call customers 42:49.480 --> 42:56.360 of companies that they are partnered with oh no so microsoft is partnered with tons of people 42:57.160 --> 43:03.240 and actually country companies have partnerships all the time all over the place you know it's a it's a 43:03.240 --> 43:10.200 business practice to form partnerships with other companies and they don't have to exist right then and 43:10.200 --> 43:15.480 there they can claim that they've had a partnership they can create a partnership after the fact oh 43:15.480 --> 43:21.080 yeah we're going to create a partnership with you um cisco because we want your database information so 43:21.080 --> 43:25.800 we can call these people because they're existing customers of cisco that now makes them existing 43:25.800 --> 43:34.360 customers of r because of our quote partnership so that's a that's a huge huge loophole all they've got 43:34.360 --> 43:39.080 to do is claim some fake partnership with another company and bam they have all that database and 43:39.080 --> 43:44.600 they're allowed to call because you're an existing customer of that that partnered company the scary 43:44.600 --> 43:51.480 part is what if they decided to uh form like a telemarketers union type thing um you know getting 43:51.480 --> 43:57.720 large companies just agree to be partnered with this organization and then okay well that did no good 43:57.720 --> 44:01.960 at all yeah well let's let's not give them any ideas thanks there voodoo how i appreciate that 44:02.680 --> 44:06.520 they're listening and now they're going to form this conglomerate of all the companies 44:06.520 --> 44:10.440 telemarketers inc no i'm sure they've already thought about that and i'm sure there's already 44:10.440 --> 44:15.560 it's already underway i have no doubt i have no one thing for me in telemarketers i always feel bad 44:15.560 --> 44:20.440 because uh if any of you ever heard me talk about my telemarketing stories telemarketer stories i can't 44:20.440 --> 44:25.000 stand being called by anyone i don't know so i get pretty violent but i always feel bad because i know 44:25.000 --> 44:30.120 that one person the other line is just doing their job oh absolutely it's not it's not the individuals 44:30.120 --> 44:34.760 because like you said i've done it i i had that job for a couple weeks and you did for a couple days 44:34.760 --> 44:39.640 you know it's you got to pay the bills it's not the individuals on the phone it's the companies 44:40.360 --> 44:47.720 that push that you know it's sad what have we become it's it's yeah it's shameful i very much 44:47.720 --> 44:56.440 regret that three weeks of my life oh man and that's why to this day i don't usually get violent or angry 44:56.440 --> 45:00.840 on the phone but i do like to play with them when i get telemarketing calls i like to joke around with 45:00.840 --> 45:05.080 them i like to have fun with them tell them stories see online keep them on the line and 45:06.120 --> 45:14.120 and let's see i don't want to ruin i i have an upcoming episode an upcoming special my telephonic 45:14.120 --> 45:20.360 craptacular that i joked about with bland one time um that i've got pretty much put together and i'm not 45:20.360 --> 45:25.720 sure if i'm going to save it for like the 25th episode or what i'm going to do with it but i've got 45:25.720 --> 45:32.920 it all pretty much done um where i do exactly what i just described but that's neither here nor there 45:32.920 --> 45:40.360 um another i want to cover a few more of these and we're running kind of short on time um another loop 45:40.360 --> 45:47.960 hole and this one is you know this is tying in something that we hate with something that we hate 45:47.960 --> 45:56.440 even more tying in these telemarketing calls with pop-ups on the internet and there there is a 45:56.440 --> 46:01.320 phenomenon or a thing that's going on now where these companies are partnering with online companies 46:01.880 --> 46:06.360 that will initiate pop-up chat windows with customers after you order something online 46:07.240 --> 46:14.680 god well and okay now it gets worse it gets worse you get a pop-up window this you know from from some 46:14.680 --> 46:20.360 third party saying oh we noticed you just bought a uh uh cisco router do you need to buy network 46:20.360 --> 46:24.200 cables you know and they'll you know they'll try to sell you because they're quote partnered they 46:24.200 --> 46:29.240 can use that thing well it gets worse obviously what are people like us going to do when you get 46:29.240 --> 46:33.160 that what's you know oh you know what fuck you what's the first thing you're going to do damn it 46:33.160 --> 46:36.920 i used the f word what's the first thing you're going to do when that pop-up comes in front of you 46:36.920 --> 46:42.120 try to close it exactly i'm not going to answer it screw you forget about it i'll buy my own cables 46:42.120 --> 46:48.200 well if you don't respond the company that is the third party company that was trying to sell you 46:48.200 --> 46:56.280 those cables not the original company they are allowed to call you oh lord with the information 46:56.280 --> 47:00.920 from the company that you ordered from initially they're allowed to get that number and give you a 47:00.920 --> 47:08.040 quote courtesy call there is a loophole that allows that they can give you a courtesy call on behalf of the 47:08.040 --> 47:13.000 original sales company and the way they do it is the loophole that allows them to do that 47:13.960 --> 47:21.080 is that they are providing customer service it's a follow-up call giving you customer service to 47:21.080 --> 47:27.240 make sure you're satisfied with your purchase oh and would you like to buy some cables well the one 47:27.240 --> 47:31.560 thing that i really wonder about the whole telemarketing thing is i worked for a company for 47:31.560 --> 47:36.280 a while and this was this was at&t um and it was inbound but it wasn't really telemarketing it was you 47:36.280 --> 47:43.000 call in if you want to buy something from us type thing um but and the company i worked for had 47:43.000 --> 47:48.040 hundreds of different clients who we would do things like this for well about three months ago i got seven 47:48.040 --> 47:53.720 calls from telemarketers on my cell phone in the same day only one time it happened um yet each time 47:53.720 --> 47:57.640 they were claiming to be a different company and what i'm wondering is if the companies that they have 47:57.640 --> 48:03.960 clients for if they can if they have separate do not call this per each client or separate a single do not 48:03.960 --> 48:08.760 call list and this is before the national do do not call this right talking about but i'm wondering 48:08.760 --> 48:13.400 if they have separate ones for each client because i swear to god there's no other way my number got 48:13.400 --> 48:20.680 spread that much in one day every telemarketer in the world yeah it's who knows there's no regulation 48:20.680 --> 48:26.600 there's no way of keeping up and knowing what they did that's you know that's the problem um and there 48:26.600 --> 48:33.320 and you know this is it's actually kind of segues into the next the next trick here where um anytime 48:33.320 --> 48:40.360 you call in like you just said an incoming call to a company will and this is not necessarily new 48:40.360 --> 48:45.640 but now it's going to start coming more and more frequently more and more often you and where i first 48:45.640 --> 48:52.360 noticed it was with cell phone company i call in the cell phone company and ask for whatever a question 48:52.360 --> 48:57.720 or anything like that you know it's one thing to say is there anything else i can help you with 48:57.720 --> 49:02.440 that's fine that's just being polite i say no thank you i hang up it's another thing all together 49:02.440 --> 49:08.680 can i interest you in purchasing a camera add-on can i be interested in purchasing a a carry case or 49:08.680 --> 49:13.480 something like that that's kind of crossing a different line well that's going to start happening 49:13.480 --> 49:19.400 a lot more now too when you call into a company for whatever reason you call into a company you're going 49:19.400 --> 49:24.680 to get a sales pitch when you call them because you're initiating the call for whatever reason 49:24.680 --> 49:28.360 before they hang up with you or while they're talking to you they're going to get a sales pitch 49:28.360 --> 49:32.840 you call in for tech support you got a tech support question you're going to get a sales pitch you call 49:32.840 --> 49:37.720 in with a billing dispute you want to straighten out your finances your credit card number your address 49:37.720 --> 49:41.800 you're going to get a sales pitch you're going to complain and call complain and tell how many 49:41.800 --> 49:45.480 sales pitches you're getting from how much telemarketing you're going to get a sales pitch 49:45.480 --> 49:51.640 that's what they're going to start doing now when you call them even if it's not about sales even if 49:51.640 --> 49:57.000 you're not replying to an 800 number for a free item like i mentioned earlier you call them you're going 49:57.000 --> 50:02.920 to get a sales pitch and that's something that i think you're going to start seeing and hearing a lot 50:02.920 --> 50:10.040 more so that's the kind of thing that will get me mad did i call to ask if i could buy an accessory 50:10.040 --> 50:15.480 for my phone no i called because you guys overcharged me no i call because i want to know why my phone 50:15.480 --> 50:20.680 doesn't get a reception no i called because i want to return something you know i don't want to buy 50:20.680 --> 50:24.520 anything i want you to give me my customer service and then let me go 50:27.000 --> 50:32.680 and finally another prediction and this one may be i don't think this was going to happen as bad as 50:32.680 --> 50:39.640 some of the others those others i think are sure things sure things but i think we're going to finally 50:39.640 --> 50:47.400 have and the young listeners may not remember this but we're going to have a return of door to door 50:47.400 --> 50:54.600 salesman i really i really see that happening they can't call you but guess what there's not a do not 50:54.600 --> 51:03.000 walk to my door and annoy me list they're called large dogs yeah exactly exactly luckily you know i can 51:03.000 --> 51:10.040 put up a sign that says no salesman like like that's going to stop them a sign but um electrify 51:10.040 --> 51:15.000 your doorbell that works every time yeah right you might get a few uh innocent casualties in there 51:15.000 --> 51:19.960 but you know what it might be worth it exactly might be worth it yeah so you might get door-to-door 51:19.960 --> 51:26.840 salesman again i i guess it's expensive because you're paying a human being to walk and travel so it 51:26.840 --> 51:32.040 probably would only be for very high ticket items it would be very targeted program uh um 51:32.040 --> 51:36.760 marketing i would assume but yeah you're going to have a bunch of asshats walking door-to-door 51:37.320 --> 51:42.760 trying to sell crap would you like to see the new vacuum cleaner of the year yeah and that and 51:42.760 --> 51:47.560 that's that's the cliched one that's the most famous one was the old uh what brand was it was it 51:47.560 --> 51:55.320 not hoover what was it electrolux or i don't remember that was even before my time that's how old that 51:55.320 --> 52:02.600 was even before my time the door-to-door uh um vacuum salesman so you might be seeing that again 52:02.600 --> 52:07.000 soon hopefully have you seen the actual like old time video of it though where they come in and pour 52:07.000 --> 52:13.400 shit on your carpet yeah and then vacuum it up yeah yeah i've seen some of that oh man they ain't 52:13.400 --> 52:17.640 coming in and pouring nothing on my carpet i'll kick somebody's ass they come in and pour something 52:17.640 --> 52:22.280 on my carpet's already dirty enough oh great this vacuum cleaner works great it's a beating stick yeah 52:22.280 --> 52:26.120 right yeah come on in you don't have to pour anything on my carpet you can clean up what 52:26.120 --> 52:31.000 already is there though oh no i don't want to buy your stuff but why don't you finish vacuuming while 52:31.000 --> 52:35.000 you're in here asshat although for all the great social engineers out there you might get a good 52:35.000 --> 52:39.480 house cleaning out of it exactly i don't know if it's clean enough yet try this spot yeah that carpet 52:39.480 --> 52:45.320 back there is shaggier than this carpet i want to see if it's going to work there you know see if you 52:45.320 --> 52:51.400 can get a free house cleaning um and i actually also i did because i was putting this together i 52:51.400 --> 52:56.360 went and looked up some statistics and i know you're looking at these on the show notes but to me 52:57.240 --> 53:03.480 i mean is this just mind numbing do you see the numbers in front of you yeah that's pretty damn scary 53:03.480 --> 53:08.360 i that proves people actually buy things from these people and that's the problem as long as people are 53:08.360 --> 53:12.600 buying from it and following up on it it's going to continue that's the sad thing especially in these 53:12.600 --> 53:17.720 numbers yeah they exist for a reason they're making money so don't you ever doubt it as much 53:17.720 --> 53:23.720 as everybody hates them somebody is buying from someone is giving in and somebody is actually 53:23.720 --> 53:28.360 purchasing from them now more than likely it's the targeted stuff i'm sure their success rate is much 53:28.360 --> 53:35.560 higher than the just blind cold calls but still last year all right i'm going to i'm going to enunciate 53:35.560 --> 53:40.920 clearly because when you get to these alien words you got to make sure you put the right emphasis on 53:40.920 --> 53:51.560 the right syllable uh last year telemarketers made upwards of 70 million calls a day 53:53.560 --> 54:06.280 a day and they sold more than 100 billion with a b 100 billion worth of goods and services to consumers 54:06.280 --> 54:14.440 plus 114 billion to businesses this is according to the direct marketing association a trade group 54:16.440 --> 54:20.920 total of 214 billion dollars last year 54:23.080 --> 54:30.520 70 million calls per day no wonder why everybody hates telemarketers 70 million per day 54:30.520 --> 54:37.400 three hundred multiply that out and then compare to how many people there are in the united states 54:39.000 --> 54:45.720 and figure out how many estimate how many calls people get but since they produced 214 billion dollars 54:46.600 --> 54:52.600 it's not going to stop not ever it is not going to stop it is absolutely not going to stop now the number 54:52.600 --> 54:58.280 the sold the amount sold to businesses is only slightly higher well not that 14 billion is something to 54:58.280 --> 55:06.120 sneeze at but 100 billion to consumers and 114 billion to businesses consumers are spending money on 55:06.120 --> 55:13.240 these telemarketers stop replying stop responding to them stop buying this stuff over the phone and they 55:13.240 --> 55:20.760 will go away it's like trolls they will go away if you ignore them so stop buying them go to the store and 55:20.760 --> 55:31.160 buy the same thing and probably cheaper oh only as seen on tv only available in this offer yeah right are you 55:31.160 --> 55:36.360 kidding me that thing will be in the discount bin at the dollar store within six months of release 55:36.360 --> 55:39.880 just looking your neighbor's trash i'm sure someone bought one yeah and that's the other thing is once 55:39.880 --> 55:43.800 you get it it's crap exactly you know never works right 55:43.800 --> 55:51.880 anyway all these are loopholes that um these companies are trying most of these are confirmed 55:51.880 --> 55:59.480 that they are going on some of them are ideas that may happen but right now it's still new 56:00.040 --> 56:05.720 the do not call us to still new the laws are still new it's possible that they may not hold up 56:06.280 --> 56:11.960 i mean let's hold out some faith do i think it'll happen no but let's hold out some faith it's still a 56:11.960 --> 56:16.840 new thing it's still a new law maybe that they maybe they won't be able to get these loopholes 56:16.840 --> 56:20.840 maybe they'll tighten them up or maybe they'll be punished for using them after the fact i don't 56:20.840 --> 56:28.440 know we'll see but excuse me for coughing on the microphone there the other thing is you know how 56:28.440 --> 56:34.600 slow our government works in our court system by the time any punishment or anything happens you know 56:34.600 --> 56:39.880 it may be too late it may be over and done with you know part of that 214 billion dollars is going to 56:39.880 --> 56:44.840 somebody in the government's pocket well yeah you know they're going to have lobbyists and special 56:44.840 --> 56:49.560 interest groups and that's the that's what corrupts our government more than anything but we're not 56:49.560 --> 56:55.160 going to go into a whole political rant but yes absolutely true statement and as long as we're on 56:55.160 --> 57:01.800 this i'll touch one quick topic before we wrap up here because this is another another shady thing 57:01.800 --> 57:07.880 that's going on um and it's kind of along the same lines of a poor way to conduct business if you ask me 57:07.880 --> 57:13.640 so it's a natural segue into these credit card companies these credit card companies are doing 57:14.520 --> 57:22.600 some similar shady business for lack of a better term um now maybe some of the listeners can relate to 57:22.600 --> 57:31.320 this sometimes creditors simply lose people it's just a fact you take out a student loan you may move 57:32.120 --> 57:38.200 right after you graduate move two or three times as a matter of fact and they simply may lose you 57:38.200 --> 57:42.680 their system you know companies these especially these bigger companies credit card companies they 57:42.680 --> 57:47.720 can't keep up and by the time they've got a change of address form from one place you may have moved 57:47.720 --> 57:54.440 on two or three times since then so they may just lose your track of you along the way and that's what 57:54.440 --> 58:02.680 they call basically lost income or shrinkage or um what do they call it uncollectible because they 58:02.680 --> 58:08.920 simply lose you or they may lose you because they screw up in their database they may just mark you as 58:08.920 --> 58:15.080 paid or mark you as um you know some do not collect status or whatever and then years down the road this 58:15.080 --> 58:20.440 happened to a friend of mine on this student loan um he was told that he was done he'd made all the payments that he 58:20.440 --> 58:25.400 is supposed to have made and then six or seven years after the fact they come to him saying he 58:25.400 --> 58:30.760 still owes thousands of dollars because he never paid off the end the last payment or two or something 58:30.760 --> 58:34.600 like that and all the interest was building up over that time and they tried to come in and make him 58:34.600 --> 58:41.480 pay all this kind of stuff years later so they lose people it's just a fact there's any number of reasons 58:41.480 --> 58:46.200 that they could be doing it well what's going on now is that these credit card companies 58:46.200 --> 58:54.360 are somewhat giving up or these excuse me not credit card companies let me credit companies 58:55.080 --> 58:59.560 these credit lenders whether it's student loan whether it's government whether it's car whether 58:59.560 --> 59:06.040 it's whatever anybody that's lended money or loaned money they finally get to the point where they've 59:06.040 --> 59:12.520 lost you they give up and what they're doing is selling that information to credit card companies 59:12.520 --> 59:18.520 and the credit card companies who do have a high response rate with their junk mail oh here's our 59:18.520 --> 59:24.440 free credit card zero percent interest you know that's useful to people people will follow up and sign 59:24.440 --> 59:29.800 up for that credit card well that credit card company has purchased the debt from these other 59:29.800 --> 59:35.400 companies and the act of you getting that credit card you don't realize in the fine print that what you 59:35.400 --> 59:41.720 are doing is accepting this old debt and when you get a credit card it's got all your old debts in it 59:41.720 --> 59:45.400 and you're in the whole negative amount of money on this new credit card that you got because they 59:45.400 --> 59:47.720 purchased the debt from some old company 59:49.960 --> 59:54.520 be careful what you sign be careful what you sign up for when you get a credit card company 59:55.240 --> 59:57.560 when it comes to money they don't let go that easily 01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:05.240 have you ever heard of any stories like that have you ever heard or had that happen i was personally 01:00:05.240 --> 01:00:11.320 raped by a credit card company online once never signed up for the card it was one of those we'll find 01:00:11.320 --> 01:00:15.800 you a credit please because i was i was 18 and didn't have any credit so i was trying to find 01:00:15.800 --> 01:00:20.200 someone who would give me credit and you're their target audience they come after you know i see it at 01:00:20.200 --> 01:00:27.160 at universities all the time they will set up tables on uh during open uh during registration and stuff 01:00:27.160 --> 01:00:31.400 like that and it's like okay here's your register here's your classes would you like a credit card 01:00:32.040 --> 01:00:40.840 exactly well this company um was posted and i filled out the application form well according to them they said that in me filling out the application form which 01:00:40.840 --> 01:00:45.800 this means read everything on the page exactly if it's hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages long 01:00:45.800 --> 01:00:52.600 read it or don't sign it um yeah they said that because i did that that was going ahead and okaying them 01:00:52.600 --> 01:00:58.280 activating the card which they didn't say anywhere on the page that there was a 300 activation fee 01:00:59.000 --> 01:01:03.000 i get this card in the mail and a bill along with it saying okay you you have a 300 balance 01:01:03.560 --> 01:01:07.320 like i haven't spent anything i haven't signed the card i haven't done anything exactly 01:01:07.320 --> 01:01:13.160 and uh i ended up having to pay it because there was nothing i could do yeah and you know and it's 01:01:13.160 --> 01:01:22.040 terrible because it's it's so much easier said than done i am the first i will freely admit i try my best 01:01:22.040 --> 01:01:28.280 to read everything i sign but even i will get into a circumstance where it's like yeah yeah whatever i'm 01:01:28.280 --> 01:01:34.040 in a hurry just give me the damn thing you know i try my best to read everything we give the advice and 01:01:34.040 --> 01:01:39.320 tell people read everything you sign but there's some circumstances where you just can't realistically 01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:46.040 do it there's so it's so long and there's so much stuff to sign it's just unrealistic and it's a damn 01:01:46.040 --> 01:01:57.000 shame that our country our country being the united states of america is so judicial it's so over 01:01:57.000 --> 01:02:02.040 what am i trying to say there's too many damn lawyers that's what i'm trying to say 01:02:02.600 --> 01:02:09.320 when you have to sign you know read five pages just to sign a simple form it's ridiculous it's 01:02:09.320 --> 01:02:14.920 just ridiculous and we shouldn't live in that kind of an environment but hey that's the reality that's 01:02:14.920 --> 01:02:22.200 what you got to do so we'll say it as much as you can read as often as you can everything that you sign 01:02:22.200 --> 01:02:29.160 and that's really about it that's it that's a full show i think uh i really liked hearing the 01:02:29.160 --> 01:02:32.920 stuff about freak nick did you um i'll give you the first crack at shouts tonight did you want to 01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:37.080 shout out to anybody there or anybody in general for that matter uh yeah i generally won't do this 01:02:37.080 --> 01:02:41.880 because i don't know how many from the fc 2600 we have listening um but shouts to the guys who put 01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:48.360 up who did the con great job um the nashville linux users group also helped with that um shouts to 01:02:48.360 --> 01:02:54.680 a lot for coming along for the chaos and shouts to the people on the boards and shouts to uh jack 01:02:54.680 --> 01:03:01.720 daniels jim beam yeah guinness guinness was there oh okay guinness there you go and um i'll give 01:03:01.720 --> 01:03:05.800 shots to decoder i've been chatting with him giving him a hard time innocent messages lately i'll give a 01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:11.480 shout out to him and i think that's all for me uh i'll shout out no i'll shout out uh sito i'll shout 01:03:11.480 --> 01:03:18.040 out my friend womp uh we're working on hack tv um i'll give a shout out to them and one more 01:03:18.040 --> 01:03:23.880 as well uh not theory just for that uh nice uh database thing he was doing oh he's always doing 01:03:23.880 --> 01:03:28.920 something just i i joked with him the other day you know we were i've been chatting with him quite a 01:03:28.920 --> 01:03:34.840 bit too at work we've been playing the compare who has the worst code at their job game where we cut 01:03:34.840 --> 01:03:40.840 and paste code to each other and um you know he's just so it's so interesting that he'll just oh what 01:03:40.840 --> 01:03:44.120 are you going to do this weekend well i'm going to sleep i'm going to sit on my dead ass and watch 01:03:44.120 --> 01:03:50.040 football you know and then what are you going to do this weekend in theory oh well i'm going to uh 01:03:50.040 --> 01:03:55.000 do an analytical study of the theory of relativity and prove that gravity doesn't exist and reverse 01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:59.880 the rotation of the earth and oh yeah i might throw in some code to uh rewrite an entire operating 01:03:59.880 --> 01:04:05.480 system from scratch i mean the guy's just incredible how much he'll sit down and code man he's 01:04:05.480 --> 01:04:12.280 amazing i will second those shouts i second that very big big time um again i mentioned earlier the 01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:17.240 show i'm going to repeat it now letters at binrev.com you send it somewhere else i might not see i'll 01:04:17.240 --> 01:04:23.720 eventually see it but i might not see it in a timely fashion so if you have feedback on the show itself 01:04:23.720 --> 01:04:32.120 or on the magazine even letters at binrev.com and i guess that is about it um unless you had anything 01:04:32.120 --> 01:04:39.320 else that's it for me that's it well we're going to close with a different style of music it's difficult 01:04:39.320 --> 01:04:44.680 to find it's not difficult of it it's difficult to find specific genres of music when you're looking 01:04:44.680 --> 01:04:49.640 for it there's plenty of great music out there on the internet but when i go looking for a particular 01:04:49.640 --> 01:04:54.600 type sometimes it's difficult well i found something good tonight this is um a little different than what 01:04:54.600 --> 01:05:00.120 we usually do and kind of at the request of decoder somewhat not this particular song but a change of 01:05:00.120 --> 01:05:07.400 the music style um this one is a called rufio it's a song called science fiction and we're going to 01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:11.640 close with that and actually i'm going to close with a phone call tonight i'm going to edit it in 01:05:11.640 --> 01:05:17.880 afterwards i called we mentioned on the show within theory last week uh 1-800 hotmail and if you don't 01:05:17.880 --> 01:05:22.600 know what i'm talking about go back and listen to last week's show and i gave them a call and i'm 01:05:22.600 --> 01:05:28.760 going to play that as we leave right now and then jumping to that closing music so um that's it for me 01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:33.160 so i tell you what you know let's switch things up why don't you start with the closing this time 01:05:33.160 --> 01:05:40.440 all right um see you next week guys same hack time same hack channel okay so on last episode we 01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:47.240 mentioned 1-800 hotmail thinking of course that would be hotmail.com spelled very differently from 01:05:47.240 --> 01:05:54.440 hot mail m-a-l-e so let's give a call to 1-800 hotmail m-a-i-l and see what they have to say 01:05:58.760 --> 01:06:13.880 thank you for choosing pilgrim telephone who from services follow this message feeling horny try 01:06:13.880 --> 01:06:22.760 these red hot lines from national live hot fun at just 69 cents per minute at 1-800-SEX-5555 that's 1-800-SEX-5555 01:06:22.760 --> 01:06:32.760 5-800-SEX-5555 or try 1-900-226-GIRL for local dirty girl fun at only 199 per minute that's 1-900-226-GIRL 01:06:33.880 --> 01:06:47.800 900 block dial 1-767-446-9000 that's 1-767-446-9000 only international long distance rates apply 01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:53.960 and while you're on the internet check out singles.com and girls.com that's singles.com and 01:06:53.960 --> 01:07:03.880 girls.com well isn't that interesting if you're under 18 you must hang up now welcome to intimate 01:07:03.880 --> 01:07:10.680 connections where you'll hear sexy introductions from callers on our system right now talk only to 01:07:10.680 --> 01:07:26.360 the girls who turn you on yeah i think i'm going to skip out on the fun thanks intimate connections 01:07:26.360 --> 01:07:33.000 where you'll hear sexy introductions from callers on our system right now talk only to the girls who 01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:41.640 turn you on send private uncensored messages or talk live one-on-one to join the fun press one now 01:07:41.640 --> 01:07:47.080 all right well it obviously loops so i'm gonna drop them offline thank you very much for the offer but 01:07:47.080 --> 01:07:52.760 yeah i i think i'm just gonna yeah i'm just gonna take a pass on that one but did anybody else notice 01:07:52.760 --> 01:07:59.000 how short the pause was for that age 18 check i didn't even have time to hang up if i wanted to 01:07:59.000 --> 01:08:00.680 but anyway on to the music 01:08:00.680 --> 01:08:21.320 these are the whispers that you keep inside your mind 01:08:21.320 --> 01:08:25.160 i do that for sure they are turning at your spouse 01:08:25.160 --> 01:08:27.160 and i can't believe it for me 01:08:27.160 --> 01:08:29.160 and i can't believe it for me 01:08:29.160 --> 01:08:31.160 but i will think they're happy 01:08:31.160 --> 01:08:33.160 when you call me 01:08:33.160 --> 01:08:35.160 to lead to the world 01:08:35.160 --> 01:08:37.160 your planet is 01:08:37.160 --> 01:08:39.160 choking on your pride 01:08:39.160 --> 01:08:41.160 and show you yourself 01:08:41.160 --> 01:08:43.160 feeling 01:08:43.160 --> 01:08:45.160 feeling 01:08:45.160 --> 01:08:47.160 feeling 01:08:47.160 --> 01:08:53.160 feeling 01:08:53.160 --> 01:08:57.160 moving 01:08:57.160 --> 01:08:59.160 feeling 01:08:59.160 --> 01:09:09.160 very 01:09:09.160 --> 01:09:39.140 Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. 01:09:39.160 --> 01:10:09.140 Oh, oh, oh. 01:10:09.160 --> 01:10:16.160 Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. 01:10:16.160 --> 01:10:18.160 A new life 01:10:18.160 --> 01:10:22.160 Of all she doesn't, all she doesn't know 01:10:24.160 --> 01:10:28.160 Don't believe in science, it's time 01:10:28.160 --> 01:10:32.160 That I feel, it's just time 01:10:32.160 --> 01:10:36.160 To avoid the ordinary 01:10:36.160 --> 01:10:42.160 It's time to take this one full of your life 01:10:46.160 --> 01:10:48.160 malalties 01:10:48.160 --> 01:10:58.160 much 01:10:58.160 --> 01:10:59.160 even weekly 01:10:59.160 --> 01:11:01.160 live 01:11:01.160 --> 01:11:03.160 more 01:11:03.160 --> 01:11:04.160 fun 01:11:04.160 --> 01:11:06.160 life 01:11:06.160 --> 01:11:07.160 life 01:11:07.160 --> 01:11:08.160 life 01:11:08.160 --> 01:11:09.160 life 01:11:09.160 --> 01:11:11.160 life 01:11:11.160 --> 01:11:12.160 life 01:11:12.160 --> 01:11:14.160 life 01:11:14.160 --> 01:11:15.480 lives