WEBVTT

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This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers.

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To the hackers and the crackers.

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I see in binary, I speak source code.

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Step on my toes, I'll post a million game pegs of you in a fag pose.

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In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho.

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Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold.

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I was a dick with my fifty-six.

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Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable.

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On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo.

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On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero.

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In a flash, I'll school you on burning dream cats.

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You need some ISOs? Let me through my hard drive rifle.

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Our exchange you could never stifle.

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In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug.

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I bootlegged your CD. I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z.

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Cause CG, it's all gonna be free.

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Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely.

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You feel that rattling your bones?

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When I tell you we just hacked Al Jones.

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And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back.

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Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.

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Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack.

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals.

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Serial codes.

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Source codes.

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ISOs.

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Rans.

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Sips.

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This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals.

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Good evening ladies and gentlemen.

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I am StankDawg with you once again on Binary Revolution Radio.

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And I am here with a mystery guest.

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So mystery guest, would you sign in please?

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Hey, how you doing?

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No, I need more than that.

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Nobody's gonna guess off of just that.

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Hmm, hi-ho.

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Well, let's see.

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Yes, I am a criminal.

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My crime is that of curiosity.

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My crime is that of judging people by what they say and think.

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Not by what they look like.

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My crime is of outsmarting you.

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Something that you'll never forgive me for.

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I am a hacker and this is my manifesto.

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You may stop this individual, but you can't stop us all.

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Well, after all, we're all alike.

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You know, that sounds vaguely familiar.

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Is Kermit the Frog, is that my special guest host today?

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Celebrity Frog impersonated.

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Celebrity Frog impersonated very well by a voice that the old school listeners of RFA,

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and actually you've been on a recent episode of RFA would recognize,

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the one, the only, Rax.

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How's it going, man?

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Welcome to the show and thank you for being on the show.

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Hey, sure enough.

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I'm going to jump right in because I know you and I can talk for probably five,

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six hours straight without taking a breath.

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I figured we'd jump right into the housekeeping segment of the show,

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which as you know is where we answer email, take care of the little things like that.

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And the first thing I want to address, if you'll indulge me,

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is that this will be streaming on Veterans Day.

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So I wanted to shout out a happy Veterans Day to everyone and thank all the veterans that may be listening, if any.

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And jump into email feedback from last week.

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Now I had an email from Shatter.

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Last week I talked about the different hacker conventions out there and what little bit I did know about them.

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And granted, I admittedly know very little about them.

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And I had heard the reputation that DEFCON has kind of the party atmosphere going on.

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And I got an email from Shatter who says that, yeah, they party.

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They party at night, but they learn at day.

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And, hey, there's nothing wrong with that.

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I'm looking very much forward to going to DEFCON.

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So if anybody got the wrong impression like I was putting it down as nothing but a big party,

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that's not what I meant at all.

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But I guess I'll judge for myself when I go up there this upcoming 2004, hopefully.

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Knock on wood.

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Yeah, I ended up, I volunteered and worked at H2K2.

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So I worked my ass off and didn't get a chance to hang around and do too much else.

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But it seemed there was like a little bit less of that.

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And I think part of the thing, I mean, it's Las Vegas, Sin City, you know, the whole thing like that.

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Yeah, I'm sure that helps.

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You're right.

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I didn't think about that.

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Turning the swimming pool purple with dye and shit like that, you know, people really get into that.

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Well, isn't, but I mean, H2K2, H2K4 upcoming, whatever they announce it,

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is in the middle of New York City, if I'm correct, right?

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Downtown Manhattan, right across from Madison Square Garden.

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Well, isn't that like an all-night party?

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I mean, it may not be called Sin City, but I mean, isn't that pretty much an action-packed place too?

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Well, again, I didn't get much chance to go out and check stuff out.

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I worked my butt off, so.

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Hmm.

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Well, I assume then from those statements you're planning on going to the upcoming H2K4,

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whatever it's called?

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I got a name for it.

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I emailed it manually.

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I said, call it HOPE4 Planet Earth, right?

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Because HOPE being the recursive acronym for Hackers on Planet Earth.

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Oh, wow.

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And, you know, HOPE is the fourth conference, and you're, you know, blah, blah, blah.

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Anyway, so I thought it was kind of clever.

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Right.

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F-O-U-R is F-O-R.

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Okay, I gotcha.

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I gotcha.

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Did he acknowledge or anything?

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No, no, no.

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He's one of those guys you've got to keep emailing, like, over and over and over.

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Yeah, I kind of get that impression about him, yeah.

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Well, maybe we...

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I wish they would hurry up and name it something.

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I don't want to call it H2K4 if it's not what it's going to be.

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Yeah, just call it the HOPE conference.

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I mean, that's technically what it is.

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Yeah, and that's what I've been saying on the air.

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That's what I've been saying on the air.

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Regardless, I'm going to be trying my best to go.

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And I am going to also try to go to DEFCON.

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And, frankly, I want to go to as many as I can this upcoming year.

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I'd like to compare and contrast all of them.

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See what I like about some, what I don't like about others.

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And there seems to be a lot more of them lately.

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A lot of them coming out of the woodwork, so to speak.

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And a lot of them that are billing themselves as security conferences

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as opposed to hacker conferences.

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But they still seem very hacker-oriented.

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And on the opposite side of the coin, there's some that are billed as hacker conferences,

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but they seem to be aiming and sending ads.

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I don't remember which one I got an ad for at my job where I get solicited for business stuff.

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And it was touted, however, as a hacker's conference.

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You know, that's the thing.

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I actually made up a t-shirt at DEFCON.

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It says, I'm not a hacker.

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I'm a, quote, security professional.

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Yeah, yeah.

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But, I mean, that's the thing.

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And the whole thing of it is that it's a tool, just like anything else.

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And it's how you decide to apply it.

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So probably saw it more at DEFCON than at H2K, too.

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But, I mean, you've got the, you know, the penny loafer, khaki pants, and polo shirt-wearing NSA guys,

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you know, sitting next to some pasty-faced kid with a green mohawk.

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You know, so that's the kind of thing.

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And literally, I mean, that's why they do the spot, the Fed, and everything.

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So they have people from the French Foreign Legion and, you know, the Israeli intelligence are all going there.

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And they're just mixing in with everybody else and just learning all about the same stuff at the same time.

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Well, except everybody's pointing at him playing spot the Fed.

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Yeah, well, that's half the fun of it.

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All right.

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I have another email here.

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And I bet you this is something you're going to go off about.

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We'll see.

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I got an anonymous email.

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Well, someone who I didn't want to give out their name because they're in the gaming industry.

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And I don't want to give out a name.

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Talking about Half-Life 2, I mentioned also on the last show.

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And it's been quite a bit in the news about Half-Life 2 source code being stolen.

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Now, we mentioned on the show, I don't know exactly, but, I mean, I basically said that I am opposed.

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I mean, it's a bad thing.

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However, I chastised Valve for being broken into that easily, for being vulnerable that people got in and got it.

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Well, this person explains to me, and I did go out and do some research after this because, no offense if you're listening to this person, but, you know, I got to verify that the information I'm getting from sources is true.

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So I went out and looked, and sure enough, what he says and what I confirmed is that this was not a simple script kiddie thing, to use this person's word.

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It was not a script kiddie issue.

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It was not an easy oversight of some sort.

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Apparently, they were actually under three weeks of attacks and attempted infiltration of people, so they were trying really hard to get in here.

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I heard the word organized used a few times.

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I don't know if I would go that far, at least not without more information and seeing some of the details, but it definitely looks like somebody was trying really hard.

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It wasn't just somebody in there for the fun of it or because they found a simple oversight and grabbed it.

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So that part of it, I guess, was a little bit – I guess I was underselling it a little bit.

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You know, half the time, too, or probably even more than half the time that a lot of these security breaches are actually internal.

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If you think about it, you've got a disgruntled employee, someone who's ticked off, and they want to get back at the company for whatever reason.

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So they, you know, grab stuff and they email it out or they, you know, stick it on a floppy disk or a thumb drive or something and then email it when they get home.

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Right. Absolutely. Any security professional, anybody that comes in and does an audit, that's the first thing they're going to tell you.

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They're not going to tell you to look outside. They're going to tell you to look inside.

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It's called an eggshell defense. It's hard on the outside and soft and gooey in the middle.

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Yeah.

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That's most – again, that's where so much of this stuff has gone.

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And if you're dealing with programmers, I mean, any employee you have to trust, you know, to a certain level.

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But, you know, so if someone has access to some of the source code, I mean, if they're smart, you know,

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and depending on what kind of versioning system, if they have anything to check it out, you know,

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check out from the source code repository, they would know who would have it at different times and what have you.

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But so if someone – if it was an inside job and someone was smart about what they were doing, they would, you know,

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try to get someone else's password, do the old shoulder surfing or what have you, and get that password and, you know,

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grab someone else's stuff, something that someone else had access to, not the stuff they had access to, so they wouldn't impugn themselves.

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Right.

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Right.

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Well, and, you know, the other thing is people – I don't know if I should go too far in here – but people have a tendency of leaving themselves logged in anyway.

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So if someone were to take a trip to the restroom or something like that, you don't know what someone else could be doing at your computer.

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Right.

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And you have to wonder – well, a couple things, too, and you brought up a really good point last week about the genie being –

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Are you sure I brought up a good point last week? I don't think that's possible.

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Yeah, well, you know, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.

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But once the genie gets out of the bottle, you know, it's impossible to put it back in.

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So once that code is out, what are they going to do? Are they going to rewrite it?

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If they need the same functionality, basically it's going to do the same type of thing, as long as it wasn't the entire source code for everything.

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I mean, people are going to reverse engineer and, you know, find whatever they can and patch stuff and whatever.

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So I don't know if they're doing this – you know, like they say, any publicity is good publicity, so maybe they're doing this a little bit for a publicity thing or who knows.

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But I don't know, it's –

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Well, you know, I also, you know, had a little bit of a conspiracy theory is maybe they use this as an excuse to push the release date back.

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But the thing is, the game industry is pretty infamous about that. They don't need excuses. They just postpone games all the time anyway.

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Right, right.

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Actually, this person brought up two points. They brought up a couple, but two points specifically that made me kind of step back and think about it.

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And I thought about them on the surface, but when you think about them a little bit more deeply, it's kind of – it makes you realize that it is kind of pretty bad what happened.

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But I mentioned that I wasn't sure and I didn't know how much code was stolen because I have not – I still have not yet to see anything compiled.

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No one's got bootlegs of this game out there available or anything yet, so I theorized that they probably didn't get all of the code or how much of the code did they get. I have no idea.

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Right.

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Well, it doesn't really matter. One of the points he was making was that it's not really whether or not they got everything so that they can compile and have bootlegs of the game.

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That's not really the major – I mean that is a major concern, don't get me wrong – but another very important concern is the fact that there's an engine being developed upon which this game is built.

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You know, it's not just a game. It's a game engine with a game on top of it. And when people go in and steal the source code, even parts of it, it's very valuable because they license that engine out to other game developers.

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You know, the Unreal Engine and the Quake Engine, those aren't the only games built on them. They license that out and they build Star Trek games on it and they build – I can't even think of names off the top of my head.

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I'm not a big gamer. But they license that out and make money off of that engine. Well, now that some of the code is leaked out, these other companies have some code to build off of and learn from and reverse engineer something that I love.

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I love looking at code and decompiling, reverse engineering, seeing how it works and stuff like that. And now these people have something to build from.

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It's not as simple as a cut and paste, but in not so many words, they can cut and paste and reuse a lot of this code. It is suddenly – I don't know if I should say public domain, but it pretty much has become that.

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Once it's leaked, you know, like you said, you can't put it back. It's out there now.

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The thing is, you know, if Valve is developing the engine – and not a lot of companies out there can do it.

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It does, and a few others, you know, do it and develop that engine – and these other gaming houses take and build on that engine,

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and the content is what these other gaming houses provide, like the Star Trek thing or the Matrix thing or whatever, right?

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Right.

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If Valve, first of all, assuming that it was the gaming engine code that was stolen and someone else gets it, no company is going to be able to put a product out based on that

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because Valve would very easily be able to prove that, you know, it's using this, you know, new engine, whatever it's called.

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Right.

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The Half-Life 2 engine.

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And if they license that out to, you know, company X and company Y, all of a sudden company Z comes out with a product based on that.

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Company Z is going to get their butt sued off.

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Right.

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But with only bits and pieces of it, it's going to be that much harder to prove.

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Right.

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If they're only using the module for, say, the physics module for the weapons or – gosh, I can't even think.

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Maybe they use just the engine or the module that powers the water effects.

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It's awfully hard to pinpoint specific functions that are used within a game.

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The whole engine itself, yeah, you could probably find a lot of similarities and enough to nail it down.

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But if you use just bits and pieces of it, it's going to be awfully hard to find.

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I don't know if there's enough companies out there that would have the capabilities of building the engine.

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That's why other companies license the engine from the ids and the valves of the world.

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It's because they don't have that skill base, that talent to do that.

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You know, they're content people and they make the game and do all the other stuff.

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Build it on someone else's engine.

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Right.

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And, you know, another factor to that which we probably shouldn't go into too much is what are they going to do if some country – like, for example, Sirius Sam, Croatia – you know, what are you going to do if some country – some programmers or developers in another country get a hold of this?

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You know, how are you going to force U.S. copyright law and lawsuits, etc., etc., etc.?

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I don't want to even open up that can of worms, but, you know, you've got to think on the global scale.

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Yeah.

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The second thing that they mention – and this is just kind of a pet peeve of mine – I hate people in any online games that, well, for lack of a better word, cheat. I guess there really is no better word. They cheat. And a pet peeve –

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I'm up with a creative euphemism. I don't know if you caught RFA when I was giving Duel all kinds of hell about his euphemism, you know, trespassing. No, it's urban exploration. It's trespassing.

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Yeah. Cheating is cheating. You just call it what it is.

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And, you know, cheating is – like you said, it's cheating. There's no way around it. And it's a pet peeve of mine when I go on to a game like – what is it? Counter-Strike I play is pretty much the only game I really play. I hate it when I'm on Counter-Strike and somebody's cheating, but you know they don't call them a cheater. You know what they call them? They call them a hacker.

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No, you're not a hacker. You're a cheater. They're two totally different things. You downloaded some cheat, some tool or whatever, and you're using it to cheat at a video game.

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Where did hacking come into that whole thing? But anyway, that's a whole different side run. I didn't mean to go off on that tangent.

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But the reason it relates to this is because the person pointed out to me that the security module for this game was one of the ones that was taken.

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So people can, again, look at that code, reverse engineer it, and do one of two things.

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They can either develop cheats because they know how it works, or B, they can create admin accounts or grant admin authorities and have ultimate power to run through the thing.

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Or even worse than that, they may find loopholes or ways to crash the server, overload the server, whatever.

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So there's a lot of damage that could be done, and the security module probably, at least, I don't know about the rest of the modules, but the security modules probably going to have to be changed.

16:52.420 --> 16:53.060
Very likely.

16:54.080 --> 16:58.320
And you know what? And I'm going to end it like this, because like you just said, a cheater is a cheater.

16:58.400 --> 16:59.380
There's no other way to call it.

16:59.380 --> 17:03.900
And stealing source code, breaking into a company and stealing it, is wrong.

17:04.180 --> 17:05.400
A thief is a thief.

17:06.260 --> 17:11.460
You know, it would be great if they released the open source, and we could all take it and make our own games,

17:11.580 --> 17:15.960
and, you know, sometimes you buy a game, and it sucks, and you get mad, and you think you could write something better.

17:15.960 --> 17:24.240
It would be great, but this company spends time developing and writing this code to make this game, and there's nothing wrong with that.

17:25.000 --> 17:25.820
There really isn't.

17:25.820 --> 17:31.780
There's nothing necessarily wrong with making money and having a company and developing software.

17:31.960 --> 17:34.640
There's nothing innately wrong with just doing that.

17:34.740 --> 17:35.180
Right.

17:35.300 --> 17:36.480
In my opinion, anyway.

17:38.180 --> 17:42.660
Here's the thing, and so many people kind of justify this because it's so easy to do.

17:43.520 --> 17:44.940
You know, you need a computer.

17:44.940 --> 17:50.920
You can't, you know, clone, you can't copy someone else's computer and have that hardware.

17:51.060 --> 17:53.700
Since it's just all zeros and ones, people figure, well, it's so easy.

17:54.020 --> 17:55.140
There's nothing wrong with it.

17:55.140 --> 17:57.680
I mean, you know, and that just doesn't make sense.

17:58.160 --> 18:02.560
Especially what gets me is when companies do that, you know, they'll be using bootleg software, you know,

18:02.560 --> 18:05.920
and you'll say to them, well, look, when you need another desk, do you go out and steal a desk?

18:06.040 --> 18:07.200
Well, no, I go out and buy a desk.

18:07.260 --> 18:09.300
Well, when you need another computer, do you go out and steal a computer?

18:09.420 --> 18:10.160
No, I buy a computer.

18:10.520 --> 18:13.480
Well, so how come you go out and steal software when you need another copy of the license?

18:14.920 --> 18:19.280
You know, people just figure, again, because it's so easy to do, it's okay for some reason.

18:19.280 --> 18:21.740
It doesn't necessarily make it right.

18:22.060 --> 18:31.100
However, to a certain extent, what I will commit to saying is that I understand it sometimes, but I don't justify it.

18:31.840 --> 18:33.060
You know, it's two different things.

18:33.060 --> 18:39.160
I understand that the RAA makes people angry and that they've been ripping consumers off.

18:39.400 --> 18:43.660
I absolutely understand why people dislike them and why people fight against them so much.

18:43.880 --> 18:44.740
I understand that.

18:44.780 --> 18:54.180
But I never, ever debate the fact that downloading music or downloading pirated whatever is, by the letter of the law, illegal.

18:54.180 --> 18:56.760
Understandable, yet illegal.

18:57.100 --> 18:58.440
In some circumstances, anyway.

18:59.840 --> 19:02.020
And that's all I have to say about that.

19:02.900 --> 19:04.240
That was my Forrest Gump impression.

19:04.300 --> 19:05.700
That's all I can give you.

19:06.080 --> 19:07.720
No, that's for your voices.

19:07.960 --> 19:10.000
Yeah, I don't do a Kermit, sorry.

19:10.360 --> 19:11.180
What about Marvin the Martian?

19:11.960 --> 19:13.920
What would Marvin the Martian say?

19:14.400 --> 19:15.580
Oh, drat these computers.

19:15.700 --> 19:17.240
They're so naughty and so complex.

19:17.380 --> 19:18.360
I could pitch them.

19:19.760 --> 19:24.160
In Q36 exploding space modulator, that creature has stolen the space.

19:24.180 --> 19:24.720
It's modulator.

19:25.380 --> 19:30.980
Maybe you can make a 3D Marvin the Martian game where you can have all the big green, what are those turkey buzzard things?

19:31.160 --> 19:32.680
Actually, Marvin wasn't a Martian.

19:33.020 --> 19:37.340
If you go back and watch that one, it was instant Martians, those vulture looking things.

19:37.440 --> 19:38.320
Those were the Martians.

19:38.480 --> 19:39.460
Marvin was not a Martian.

19:39.760 --> 19:40.560
So what was Marvin?

19:41.060 --> 19:41.840
It's never defined.

19:43.180 --> 19:44.320
Of course he was a Martian.

19:44.320 --> 19:47.320
Just because they were Martians doesn't mean he wasn't necessarily.

19:47.640 --> 19:49.520
They could have been a whole different race of Martians.

19:49.800 --> 19:51.500
Yeah, instant Martians just add water.

19:52.560 --> 19:53.480
I'm not buying that.

19:53.480 --> 19:54.960
He was a Venusian or something.

19:55.120 --> 19:55.300
I don't know.

19:55.380 --> 19:56.280
He was not a Martian.

19:56.360 --> 19:57.900
It's just the alliteration.

19:58.200 --> 20:01.520
No, see, I'm thinking all those turkey buzzard things.

20:01.600 --> 20:03.060
They were from the other side of Mars.

20:03.600 --> 20:05.420
Marvin was over in the ghetto somewhere.

20:06.280 --> 20:08.740
He was just looking for a space modulator.

20:09.420 --> 20:12.780
Yeah, I'm just saying there were two separate parts of the hood, but I think they're all Martians.

20:12.780 --> 20:16.780
And you're just, that's a pretty, you know, bold assumption.

20:16.900 --> 20:18.740
Just because he was black, you assumed he's from a ghetto.

20:18.860 --> 20:19.600
That's really bad, man.

20:19.600 --> 20:22.020
Oh, see, now you're going to put words in my mouth.

20:22.080 --> 20:23.820
I'm just saying he was from the opposite side.

20:23.900 --> 20:26.000
I mean, I'm from the ghetto and I'm not black.

20:26.200 --> 20:26.440
Uh-huh.

20:27.060 --> 20:28.160
All right, see.

20:28.580 --> 20:29.580
How do we know that?

20:29.700 --> 20:30.580
We've never seen you.

20:31.420 --> 20:32.840
Well, actually, that's a lie.

20:32.940 --> 20:34.900
There are pictures in the BinRev Gallery.

20:35.100 --> 20:35.880
Pimp, pimp.

20:35.880 --> 20:40.060
All right, speaking of blatant advertisement, but go ahead.

20:40.200 --> 20:42.180
Yeah, well, hey, you know, you do what you got to do.

20:43.020 --> 20:46.060
By the way, Binary Revolution magazine, issue three, coming soon.

20:47.300 --> 20:49.280
Now, that's enough for whoring ourselves out.

20:51.980 --> 20:56.140
We normally this time will also talk about what we've been working on lately.

20:56.800 --> 21:00.520
And me, I've been doing nothing but coding all day, every day.

21:00.520 --> 21:02.080
I've been coding my butt off at work,

21:02.080 --> 21:06.000
so I don't really have a lot of exciting stuff to talk about this week.

21:07.040 --> 21:08.720
I've been doing a lot of Oracle programming,

21:08.840 --> 21:13.220
and I may have found a nice little backdoor through Oracle database security,

21:13.440 --> 21:17.540
but I don't really know for sure if it's consistent or if it's going to work,

21:17.680 --> 21:20.720
so I don't want to really go into too much detail on it now.

21:22.440 --> 21:25.220
Wait, coding Oracle, what do you have to do to stay awake for it to take, like,

21:25.300 --> 21:27.000
no-dos and Red Bull or something?

21:27.000 --> 21:29.720
Put toothpicks on my eyelids to keep them from falling.

21:30.020 --> 21:30.420
Oh, man.

21:30.420 --> 21:32.760
It's very, very, very dry.

21:33.180 --> 21:33.420
Yeah.

21:33.720 --> 21:34.320
Very dry.

21:34.560 --> 21:37.560
It's actually, it's not just SQL.

21:37.840 --> 21:43.320
It's something called PLSQL, which is a customized SQL for Oracle,

21:43.920 --> 21:46.960
which means basically it has some pre-compiled functions

21:46.960 --> 21:50.300
and a little bit different syntax.

21:51.420 --> 21:54.380
It's not really, I mean, if you know SQL, you know PLSQL.

21:54.560 --> 21:56.540
It's not that big of a jump.

21:56.540 --> 22:01.240
And this segment of BinRev Radio Botch brought to you by Oracle and Larry Ellison.

22:01.740 --> 22:05.960
Man, we're just, we're turning this, we're not supposed to have commercials and advertising,

22:06.140 --> 22:07.540
but so far, you're turning...

22:07.540 --> 22:08.380
We're just doing corporate horrors, that's all.

22:08.380 --> 22:09.560
Yeah, gosh, man.

22:09.680 --> 22:12.820
I should at least get some money for it if I'm going to pimp this stuff out.

22:13.100 --> 22:13.640
Yeah, well...

22:13.640 --> 22:15.140
I'm looking ahead in the notes.

22:15.200 --> 22:16.880
Who else am I about to pimp coming up?

22:16.880 --> 22:19.260
Oh, man, I got another...

22:19.260 --> 22:20.360
Oh, man.

22:20.860 --> 22:22.400
Well, maybe we won't get that far in the notes.

22:22.820 --> 22:23.680
Maybe we'll come back.

22:24.060 --> 22:24.860
Actually, you know what?

22:24.860 --> 22:25.700
I have a dilemma.

22:26.040 --> 22:28.880
Not a big dilemma, but a funny little anecdote, we should say.

22:29.940 --> 22:34.200
I have been getting email and my personal email account.

22:34.540 --> 22:36.360
That would be not the Stank Dog account.

22:36.680 --> 22:40.920
Stank Dog is very rarely confused with other Stank Dogs.

22:41.000 --> 22:41.920
I don't think there are any.

22:41.920 --> 22:44.660
You mean your mama didn't name you Stank for your first name?

22:44.980 --> 22:46.560
Stank Diggy Dog.

22:46.640 --> 22:48.120
My middle initial is Diggy, D.

22:49.340 --> 22:51.280
No, I'm getting these...

22:51.280 --> 22:54.620
The thing is, I'm getting people's personal medical records.

22:55.280 --> 22:58.380
I'm getting attached Microsoft document files.

22:59.600 --> 23:03.660
And, I mean, these things are very in-depth.

23:04.380 --> 23:10.160
I mean, obviously it has demographic stuff like name, address, phone number, social security number,

23:10.160 --> 23:16.640
but it also goes into a lot of detail about, basically, it's the doctor's notes and what he did

23:16.640 --> 23:19.420
and what his treatments and their medical history and stuff like that.

23:20.040 --> 23:23.760
And I got one, and I didn't really think anything of it.

23:23.780 --> 23:25.840
I just opened a doc file, and I'm like, what is this?

23:26.320 --> 23:27.140
I deleted it.

23:27.460 --> 23:28.420
I'm like, oh, this isn't me.

23:28.460 --> 23:29.240
Somebody made a mistake.

23:29.640 --> 23:30.740
Well, I got another one.

23:31.240 --> 23:34.700
So now I'm like, how exactly do I handle this?

23:34.760 --> 23:39.000
I mean, obviously I have to contact these people and tell them to stop.

23:39.000 --> 23:42.920
It's obviously not a one-time mistake, but, I mean, that's kind of an awkward thing.

23:43.040 --> 23:50.140
What am I supposed to email and go, hey, you're sending me your customer's private medical records?

23:50.420 --> 23:50.880
You know what?

23:51.060 --> 23:56.140
That's actually a violation of HIPAA, the health insurance portability, blah, blah, blah, blah, whatever act,

23:56.680 --> 24:01.580
which is major, major, you know, big-time serious stuff for getting the hospital,

24:01.700 --> 24:03.720
the doctor, and everyone else involved in trouble.

24:03.720 --> 24:08.320
Well, see, I mean, I'm sure it was innocent, but, I mean, you've got to think.

24:08.400 --> 24:13.360
They're sending this to, I mean, granted, the doctor's name that they're sending it to is the same as mine.

24:13.940 --> 24:14.720
No, not stank.

24:14.720 --> 24:18.060
So if your name was Joe Doe, this is Dr. Joe Doe?

24:18.100 --> 24:21.800
Yeah, he was stank Doggy Dog, and I'm stank Diggy Dog.

24:22.480 --> 24:24.540
So everything was just almost identical.

24:24.880 --> 24:25.600
I mean, it really was.

24:25.660 --> 24:27.980
Actually, his real name was very close to mine,

24:27.980 --> 24:31.100
and they obviously have put it into their database wrong,

24:31.140 --> 24:32.640
so I'm probably going to get more of these.

24:33.300 --> 24:36.880
I emailed them back and just said, you know, I think you made a mistake.

24:38.400 --> 24:42.040
I asked them to confirm with me to make sure that they've taken me off their mailing list

24:42.040 --> 24:45.840
because I don't want to get in trouble for reading them or getting them.

24:45.960 --> 24:49.700
You know, I'm not intentionally intercepting these emails, but, you know.

24:49.700 --> 24:53.660
Well, I would say, you know, if I were you, I would maybe, you know, do a who is lookup,

24:53.740 --> 24:58.800
find out the technical contact, or call the hospital or whatever else,

24:58.840 --> 25:01.080
ask for the IT department and explain what's going on.

25:01.300 --> 25:02.420
Yeah, you know what, that's a good idea.

25:02.500 --> 25:09.780
I can contact the technical listing on who is or on their registrar, at least email them.

25:09.780 --> 25:12.400
I mean, I'm assuming this is like a Hotmail or a Yahoo account or something.

25:12.400 --> 25:13.100
Yeah, and that's the thing.

25:13.140 --> 25:14.080
It's a webmail account.

25:14.220 --> 25:14.760
Why would they?

25:15.320 --> 25:17.300
You should never send anything that personal.

25:17.300 --> 25:20.260
I mean, if someone in mind would send anything confidential, you know,

25:20.280 --> 25:23.800
and who's going to trust the doctor, you know, DrJoeDoe at Yahoo.com.

25:24.160 --> 25:24.480
Exactly.

25:25.420 --> 25:25.780
Exactly.

25:25.900 --> 25:28.140
That to me, I didn't know if that was just me thinking that.

25:28.860 --> 25:31.680
I'm like, wait a minute, why would you even send something like this?

25:31.760 --> 25:38.500
If it's not a, you know, DrJoeDoe.com, you know, then you have a little bit more.

25:38.500 --> 25:41.080
I guess, I don't know, do you have a little bit more faith because of that?

25:41.140 --> 25:41.720
You're still sending.

25:42.240 --> 25:43.680
Well, no, but you know what they really should do?

25:43.780 --> 25:44.480
I mean, it should be.

25:44.480 --> 25:47.820
Yeah, I know an easy one-word answer, but you go ahead.

25:48.060 --> 25:49.480
Well, I mean, it should be PGP'd.

25:50.240 --> 25:50.560
Exactly.

25:50.560 --> 25:52.060
It should at least be digitally signed.

25:52.340 --> 25:52.660
Encrypted.

25:52.760 --> 25:53.720
That's what I was going to say.

25:54.100 --> 25:54.380
Encrypted.

25:54.600 --> 26:00.180
You know, it's something because just think how easy it would be for someone to intercept this,

26:00.660 --> 26:05.220
change the things around a little bit, and, you know, potentially, you know,

26:05.260 --> 26:09.760
damage someone's health and someone's life because they decided to be malicious with this.

26:09.760 --> 26:15.520
It's just unfathomable that in the days of regulation with the HIPAA and everything else,

26:15.960 --> 26:20.160
that someone would just be so blatantly careless in sending this personal information out.

26:21.440 --> 26:25.440
Yeah, and, you know, not only the carelessness of what somebody might do with it,

26:25.820 --> 26:31.200
but, I mean, I assume the reason they sent this is because that person's seeking medical help or attention

26:31.200 --> 26:35.100
and the doctor they're going to needs this medical information, so somebody could be...

26:35.100 --> 26:36.220
Right, but he's probably not getting it.

26:36.500 --> 26:37.380
Obviously not.

26:37.940 --> 26:39.260
So, yeah, that's...

26:39.260 --> 26:41.160
That's a bad scene, man, that's all in all.

26:41.600 --> 26:46.060
Well, I emailed them and I, again, asked them to confirm with me,

26:46.140 --> 26:48.160
and I explained to them exactly what we said.

26:48.240 --> 26:51.420
I was very concerned that someone might not be getting their proper medical attention,

26:52.100 --> 26:54.200
so hopefully they will straighten it out.

26:54.200 --> 27:01.200
But, you know what, just to be the extra nice guy I am going to contact or who has information...

27:01.880 --> 27:07.420
Or even just call them up and ask for their director of IT, you know, because the who is thing,

27:07.460 --> 27:07.960
that could have been...

27:07.960 --> 27:08.580
But it's probably...

27:08.580 --> 27:13.800
No, I think it's probably coming from a secretary or somebody in the office that, you know,

27:13.840 --> 27:15.460
the IT person might not even know them.

27:15.520 --> 27:16.520
It could be outsourced.

27:16.580 --> 27:22.100
It could be, you know, a whole medical complex, and this is only one office that's sending it.

27:22.100 --> 27:27.780
But ultimately, he or she is where the buck stops, right, if it's relating to something in IT.

27:28.300 --> 27:31.140
And if they don't know, you know, they'll find out.

27:31.500 --> 27:35.100
And, you know, just mention the word HIPAA saying, you know,

27:35.100 --> 27:37.940
I'm sure this probably isn't HIPAA compliant that I'm receiving this,

27:38.280 --> 27:40.540
and you'll probably have their complete undivided attention.

27:41.560 --> 27:45.940
Well, I guess it won't hurt to contact as many people as I can get a hold of just to make sure.

27:47.740 --> 27:50.540
Well, anyway, I've already sent one email.

27:50.540 --> 27:51.620
I'll give it overnight.

27:51.780 --> 27:52.700
I'll give it till tomorrow.

27:52.860 --> 27:53.920
Well, it's a holiday, though.

27:54.560 --> 27:55.760
I'll give it till Wednesday.

27:57.100 --> 28:01.420
And if I haven't heard anything, by the end of the workday Wednesday,

28:01.600 --> 28:07.460
I will send out follow-ups to as many people as I can find to make sure it's covered.

28:08.600 --> 28:10.760
And, you know, that's pretty much it for me.

28:10.820 --> 28:12.420
It was a pretty light week.

28:12.420 --> 28:17.280
Now, you, on the other hand, it's been a while since you've been on the radio.

28:17.580 --> 28:19.760
What do you got going on, man?

28:19.780 --> 28:20.320
What's your deal?

28:22.200 --> 28:23.880
Well, I tend to keep busy.

28:25.580 --> 28:29.200
You know, on top of everything else, I work in, you know, in the IT business.

28:29.200 --> 28:36.200
I also teach IT courses at a local college here generally in the evening.

28:36.420 --> 28:38.240
So I've been working on that and developing that.

28:38.360 --> 28:43.400
We're actually developing an associate's degree in information technology security.

28:43.960 --> 28:48.240
So that's taken up a lot of my time and, you know, just the regular kind of life stuff.

28:48.240 --> 28:52.340
Yeah, and, boy, life takes up time.

28:53.940 --> 28:56.340
Life really takes up a lot of time, doesn't it?

28:56.600 --> 28:56.820
Yeah.

28:57.380 --> 29:00.220
And, you know, so I've been focusing on doing security stuff lately.

29:00.320 --> 29:05.080
Went to a really interesting train-the-trainer session up in Chicago last week

29:05.080 --> 29:09.940
for another course in security and learned a lot of stuff.

29:10.080 --> 29:15.080
You know, that's one of the things you can never stop learning with computer stuff

29:15.080 --> 29:18.200
because it's, you know, the quote-unquote lifelong learning.

29:18.480 --> 29:21.660
I thought when I got done with college and I was doing the computer stuff,

29:21.720 --> 29:23.780
I said, well, this will keep my interest for about five years

29:23.780 --> 29:24.880
because I have a short attention span.

29:25.000 --> 29:27.440
Well, fortunately, every 18 months it's changing.

29:27.980 --> 29:31.680
So, you know, the computer stuff is always going to keep me interested.

29:32.180 --> 29:32.880
Right, right.

29:32.880 --> 29:39.120
And, you know, if you don't adopt that mindset of constantly evolving

29:39.120 --> 29:41.880
and changing and learning new things, even though you're done with college

29:41.880 --> 29:45.620
and you have your degree, I kind of thought that myself too when I was younger

29:45.620 --> 29:47.040
that I just want to hurry up and get that degree

29:47.040 --> 29:48.320
and then I'll be done with school forever.

29:48.840 --> 29:52.560
Well, no, if you really think like that, then, yeah, 18 months later,

29:53.060 --> 29:56.060
the world's going to pass you by and you're not going to be up to par.

29:56.560 --> 29:58.380
Well, think of it like for doctors, too.

29:58.420 --> 30:02.680
I heard someone use this analogy, if you will, that like for open-heart surgery,

30:02.820 --> 30:05.540
you know, they used to have to, you know, cut the chest open, spread the ribs,

30:05.540 --> 30:07.620
you know, put the zipper in, as they call it.

30:08.220 --> 30:13.740
Now they can do open-heart surgery through a half-inch incision in the chest wall.

30:14.180 --> 30:17.420
So doctors, you know, have to relearn all that kind of stuff.

30:17.540 --> 30:19.780
Which doctor are you going to go to?

30:20.140 --> 30:23.100
Yeah, no, not a witch doctor, but, yeah, I mean, you know,

30:23.100 --> 30:26.100
so rather than having something invasive and all that, you know,

30:26.140 --> 30:30.120
where your whole body cavity is cracked open, you know, they're doing it.

30:30.120 --> 30:31.460
So they have to keep on top of things.

30:31.580 --> 30:35.020
Well, you as an IT person, and, you know, for all the listeners out there, too,

30:35.500 --> 30:38.240
you know, as you're doing this, you know how quickly stuff changes.

30:38.620 --> 30:43.300
And, you know, pick any technology you want or any software or whatever else.

30:43.440 --> 30:44.180
It doesn't matter.

30:44.260 --> 30:45.860
But it's constantly changing.

30:46.400 --> 30:49.120
And you can't afford to be, you know, two versions.

30:49.420 --> 30:52.240
You can't really afford to be any more than two versions behind on something,

30:52.240 --> 30:55.820
whether it's your word processor or your operating system or what have you.

30:56.240 --> 30:59.340
Because, you know, as we know, like with Internet time and everything,

30:59.340 --> 31:03.140
it can only be made sense of when you look at it in terms of dog years.

31:03.320 --> 31:04.920
But, you know, things change so quickly.

31:05.040 --> 31:09.360
The computer industry changes more in three months than the rest of the world does in a year.

31:09.820 --> 31:14.540
So every year in the computer industry is kind of like four years in the real world that things are changing.

31:14.840 --> 31:16.640
And you can't afford to get that far behind.

31:18.220 --> 31:19.540
No, you cannot.

31:20.020 --> 31:21.260
You absolutely cannot.

31:21.640 --> 31:26.820
Because there's somebody there waiting with the knowledge to jump right in and take your place.

31:27.020 --> 31:29.040
Man, I can't tell you how many people I've met that said,

31:29.040 --> 31:31.540
oh, yeah, I used to be in the computers ten years ago and they got out of it.

31:31.860 --> 31:34.720
I'm trying to get back into it now and it's like it's a whole different world.

31:34.860 --> 31:35.460
It's like, duh.

31:35.920 --> 31:36.240
Yeah.

31:37.640 --> 31:38.000
Yeah.

31:38.160 --> 31:38.800
Completely different.

31:39.340 --> 31:40.940
I could tell you stories, but I won't.

31:43.020 --> 31:45.980
How about did you go to your 2600 meeting?

31:46.060 --> 31:49.320
I had a really, really good 2600 meeting this past week.

31:49.900 --> 31:51.320
Yeah, we had ours here.

31:51.400 --> 31:58.120
We moved it, for those folks who listen to RFA, we moved it out of the Arizona Mills Mall in the Phoenix area.

31:59.080 --> 32:00.680
There's a whole big, long thing about that.

32:00.740 --> 32:02.120
But anyway, it was time to move it.

32:02.120 --> 32:03.240
We really needed to move it out of there.

32:03.400 --> 32:06.460
We moved it up into Borders.

32:06.460 --> 32:10.060
They have a cafe at one of the Borders stores.

32:10.180 --> 32:11.320
So we moved it up into there.

32:11.940 --> 32:13.620
And you may have heard about the story.

32:13.780 --> 32:16.560
I'm sure you covered it on Ben Reb Radio here, too.

32:16.600 --> 32:19.920
But there was a company, it just happened to be out of Phoenix as well,

32:19.960 --> 32:24.220
that came up with a, quote, new copy protection scheme for music CDs.

32:24.560 --> 32:31.500
If you put it in the computer, their, quote, unquote, copy protection scheme would install some other software

32:31.500 --> 32:35.060
and would do some other stuff, and you could not play this music CD on your computer.

32:35.740 --> 32:41.400
Well, all that, quote, unquote, security software was, is putting an autorun.inf file.

32:41.820 --> 32:43.540
Which you can bypass by?

32:43.700 --> 32:47.420
You can bypass by either, A, shutting it off or hitting the shift key when you're doing that.

32:47.420 --> 32:52.600
Well, this company decided to threaten to sue the guy who figured this out.

32:52.720 --> 32:56.460
And the true hacker ethic, right, you figure out a solution to something and you share that information.

32:57.160 --> 32:58.400
That's the true hacker ethic.

32:58.400 --> 33:04.100
And so this guy decides to share, well, they're threatening DMCA lawsuits against this guy.

33:04.300 --> 33:08.700
So anyway, long story short, Dual contacted them and invited them to the meeting.

33:08.920 --> 33:11.300
And, you know, he had a good dialogue and stuff with them.

33:11.620 --> 33:16.220
And apparently they were just blowing smoke up his tailpipe because they didn't contact, didn't call back.

33:16.260 --> 33:17.720
So we didn't have any formal presentation.

33:17.900 --> 33:19.460
We just had general conversations.

33:19.460 --> 33:28.580
And I think a couple of, Fiend and Zapper ended up popping out their laptops and doing some kind of online gaming there.

33:28.820 --> 33:33.820
And everyone just kind of standing around looking and seeing, looking kind of funny.

33:33.900 --> 33:36.520
And when you get non-computer people, you know, looking at them, what the heck are you doing?

33:36.520 --> 33:38.680
So, yeah, it was pretty good.

33:39.140 --> 33:40.580
It was kind of cash this time.

33:40.900 --> 33:46.200
But, you know, I think half of it is just the social aspect of things, you know,

33:46.220 --> 33:53.240
just getting out with other people with similar kinds of outlooks on technology and on the world and sharing your views with them.

33:53.240 --> 33:53.600
Right.

33:53.760 --> 34:03.060
And, you know, actually I was talking with the guy who runs, he hates to say that, the person who started my 2600 meeting.

34:03.480 --> 34:07.360
And we kind of talked about, you know, having presentations and stuff like that.

34:07.420 --> 34:11.080
And we were saying that it's, you know, it's a lot of time, obviously, to put that kind of stuff together.

34:11.080 --> 34:12.980
And we're going to try to start doing that.

34:13.240 --> 34:18.260
But at the same time, you know, it's like it's awfully structured.

34:18.720 --> 34:20.780
It's awfully, it's like trying to nail down.

34:20.780 --> 34:26.460
It's trying to just get everyone to sit down and look at a presentation that, A, they may not be interested in.

34:27.000 --> 34:28.260
B, they may already know.

34:28.680 --> 34:34.640
It's, you know, it's like, oh, we came to the conclusion that it's, you know, the social aspect of it that's more important.

34:35.200 --> 34:39.760
And possibly once every three or four months we might bring a presentation or something like that.

34:39.760 --> 34:41.400
Or more often if they become popular.

34:41.860 --> 34:43.480
But it's just so much going on.

34:43.520 --> 34:46.800
And our meetings have grown to, like, I don't know how big your meetings are.

34:46.800 --> 34:52.720
But ours started off when I started going with, like, geez, even the first one I went to, nobody showed up.

34:53.460 --> 34:54.600
And I talked about that before.

34:54.700 --> 34:56.160
Not a single person showed up.

34:56.300 --> 35:00.060
Now, miscommunication, people just happen to not be able to make it, whatever.

35:00.600 --> 35:03.320
The rest of the meetings were, like, three to five people.

35:03.460 --> 35:06.380
And now here lately, the past two or three months, it keeps growing exponentially.

35:06.520 --> 35:10.540
There was about 15 people or thereabouts at this last meeting.

35:10.840 --> 35:13.860
Up from about 11 or 12, the one before that.

35:13.860 --> 35:16.280
So they're growing, they're adding people on.

35:16.420 --> 35:22.440
So I think it's just kind of a cool thing to hang out and talk to like-minded people, like I said.

35:22.560 --> 35:28.160
Plus, since a lot of these people are new, there's that feeling out process.

35:28.300 --> 35:34.160
I mean, you've got to admit, it's kind of awkward and kind of not intimidating in an imposing kind of way,

35:34.220 --> 35:41.180
but intimidating in a weird, I don't know any of you guys kind of way for newbies or for new people to come to the meeting.

35:41.180 --> 35:46.700
I mean, not derogatory newbies, but for people to come to a meeting for the first time, you don't know anybody.

35:46.780 --> 35:48.300
It's just like any other social situation.

35:48.400 --> 35:53.560
It might be more comfortable for them to just come in, kind of hang out to the side, listen to people,

35:54.020 --> 35:59.640
maybe meet one or two people at a time and ease their way into the group instead of being told,

35:59.780 --> 36:02.920
you sit here, you sit there, we're going to give this presentation, yada, yada, yada.

36:02.920 --> 36:08.720
So, it's kind of, I don't know, we're kind of choosing the direction, I guess, right now.

36:09.440 --> 36:13.500
And regardless, I'm very happy with the way it's been going and growing.

36:13.860 --> 36:17.000
And do you guys have regular presentations or?

36:17.620 --> 36:19.300
Well, we actually want to get to that.

36:19.340 --> 36:20.720
We've been talking about that for a while.

36:20.840 --> 36:22.960
So, I did the presentation last month.

36:23.040 --> 36:28.220
I did a thing on tunneling VNC through SSH to have a secure remote connection.

36:28.220 --> 36:34.320
And that went over well, and I actually did that for the local ISSA security meeting as well.

36:34.680 --> 36:39.300
So, actually, one of the guys there, a younger guy, his dad or something came,

36:39.360 --> 36:40.660
so he was kind of hanging out to the side.

36:40.700 --> 36:42.860
But when the presentation started, he was interested as well.

36:43.600 --> 36:49.280
And he was in the ISSA, and he asked me to, if I'd like to do the presentation there.

36:49.560 --> 36:50.980
But, you know, I don't know.

36:51.280 --> 36:54.080
The other side of things, if someone new is coming there,

36:54.540 --> 36:58.180
and, you know, if you don't know anybody and just kind of hanging and trying to talk,

36:58.220 --> 37:02.120
it may be a little difficult, you know, not knowing how to break the ice or whatever.

37:02.200 --> 37:04.920
I always try to go up to everyone and say, hey, you know, hi, I'm Rax.

37:05.220 --> 37:06.320
Yeah, and I do the same.

37:06.520 --> 37:09.040
You know, just to kind of break the ice, because that is awkward.

37:09.520 --> 37:13.380
You know, it's just human nature to kind of be in little groups, little cliques,

37:13.460 --> 37:14.900
and it's kind of hard breaking into that.

37:15.260 --> 37:16.900
So, you know, if you're out there, if you're listening,

37:17.040 --> 37:20.520
if you haven't gone to a meeting because you don't know anyone, you know, give it a try.

37:21.020 --> 37:22.420
There are some good groups out there.

37:22.500 --> 37:23.580
There are some bad groups out there.

37:23.580 --> 37:26.780
You know, there are some groups that, you know, they'll just completely, you know,

37:26.840 --> 37:30.120
shun you and not want you to be there because they don't know who you are.

37:30.200 --> 37:32.900
And there's some groups that will welcome you with open arms and, you know,

37:33.240 --> 37:38.480
just invite you to, you know, just kind of sit back and enjoy and stuff like that.

37:38.520 --> 37:41.300
So if you haven't gone there just because you've figured, well, I don't know anyone,

37:41.620 --> 37:42.540
at least give it a try.

37:43.120 --> 37:44.040
Go out and give it a try.

37:44.400 --> 37:48.280
Go with friends that you do know as a couple of, you know, two or three guys interested,

37:48.400 --> 37:49.120
and go check it out.

37:49.320 --> 37:49.960
Yeah, absolutely.

37:49.960 --> 37:51.500
And I think there's more of the latter.

37:51.660 --> 37:56.220
I think there's more people that will accommodate you and let you in than not.

37:56.640 --> 37:57.260
I really do.

37:57.980 --> 38:02.860
And, you know, something else you mentioned that I like to do and I like hearing this story from you

38:02.860 --> 38:05.240
was the fact that someone was there with their father.

38:05.920 --> 38:07.680
So that's very, very cool to me.

38:07.800 --> 38:12.320
I have invited a couple people, like someone was listening to BinRev Radio,

38:12.620 --> 38:16.300
and I was chatting with him on IRC, and he noticed that I was in Florida.

38:16.300 --> 38:19.080
So I mentioned to him about the meeting.

38:19.220 --> 38:22.700
He said he, you know, he'd never been to one before and was a little apprehensive.

38:22.840 --> 38:25.620
And I told him, I said, come on, I'll be there.

38:25.920 --> 38:27.220
You know, I'll meet you there.

38:27.300 --> 38:28.540
I'll ask you, you know, whatever.

38:28.800 --> 38:32.060
And, you know, you meet them, you let them get comfortable.

38:32.140 --> 38:33.180
At least they know one person.

38:33.700 --> 38:35.060
And you have to start somewhere.

38:35.160 --> 38:36.040
You start with one person.

38:36.040 --> 38:40.740
And there have been other people who said that they didn't know how they were going to get there

38:40.740 --> 38:44.880
or they didn't know if their parents, you know, were going to drive them to a meeting.

38:45.000 --> 38:48.080
Because you've got to remember, some of these people are not old enough to drive

38:48.080 --> 38:52.220
or they don't have, you can't afford a car, don't have an automobile, don't have access, whatever.

38:52.920 --> 38:55.640
So there was also someone one time who came.

38:55.640 --> 39:01.740
And, you know, I spoke to the gentleman's, the young man's mother and explained to her, you know,

39:01.780 --> 39:03.000
and told her my real name.

39:03.100 --> 39:06.300
I'm not, you know, if you're worried about, you don't know any of us people, you know,

39:06.300 --> 39:09.040
I kind of met her and I thought that was a very cool thing.

39:09.660 --> 39:12.060
So I try to be as open as we can.

39:12.100 --> 39:16.120
And if more people did that at their meetings, you know, I think a lot more people would become involved.

39:16.780 --> 39:19.960
And that's part of the thing, too, for the meetings is that, you know, it meets in public

39:19.960 --> 39:21.800
and everyone's welcome and all that kind of stuff.

39:21.900 --> 39:25.040
Because, you know, whether law enforcement people, they're welcome just as well.

39:25.040 --> 39:28.360
I mean, it's not, you know, it's not about doing illegal and illicit stuff.

39:28.420 --> 39:32.820
It's about sharing the information and, you know, sharing opinions and things like that.

39:32.860 --> 39:38.040
You can agree to disagree if you don't like something about that, but, you know, with people in any kind of situation.

39:38.220 --> 39:40.700
But, yeah, it's just all open and out front, you know.

39:40.840 --> 39:45.340
Yeah, and you know what, you'll meet some of the most open-minded people you've ever met in your life.

39:45.420 --> 39:50.820
So very seldom do you have those kind of arguments and, you know, closed-mindedness.

39:50.820 --> 39:56.020
And at our meeting this past, this is a good segue.

39:56.380 --> 39:57.540
Watch how I set this up.

39:57.700 --> 40:01.620
This is learning professionalism from Rax, the master.

40:01.740 --> 40:02.360
Watch this segue.

40:03.400 --> 40:09.040
After my 2600 meeting, several of the members gathered to go watch Matrix Revolutions.

40:09.700 --> 40:13.440
I was going to say at ours, one of the big topics of discussion was Matrix Revolutions.

40:13.440 --> 40:15.260
See, we're on the same page.

40:15.380 --> 40:24.080
Now, we talked about this before the show, of course, but we didn't go into details because we're going to talk about this on the show about the movie.

40:24.200 --> 40:29.600
Now, I went to see it this weekend and I, you say you saw it, um...

40:29.600 --> 40:30.360
I saw it opening night.

40:30.560 --> 40:32.300
Yeah, you probably saw it a lot earlier than I did.

40:32.360 --> 40:36.920
I actually had my second cyber law exam on opening night.

40:36.920 --> 40:40.340
So, yes, most of my friends, they went to see it without me.

40:40.460 --> 40:41.040
Thank you.

40:41.380 --> 40:43.160
I do not shout out any of you.

40:44.000 --> 40:46.940
They went to see it without me while I'm taking a three-hour exam.

40:47.940 --> 40:49.280
And I don't know how it went yet.

40:49.420 --> 40:55.600
So, um, I went to see it this weekend with some other friends who also didn't go see it for one reason or another.

40:56.360 --> 40:59.320
And, I don't know, should I start...

40:59.320 --> 40:59.880
What did you...

40:59.880 --> 41:00.840
I'll start with you.

41:00.920 --> 41:02.620
What did you think of the movie?

41:03.120 --> 41:03.740
I liked it.

41:04.280 --> 41:04.780
I liked it.

41:04.780 --> 41:07.860
The guys I went to see it with were complaining about it.

41:07.940 --> 41:10.820
They were saying, oh, there was too many religious overtones.

41:11.040 --> 41:12.480
Oh, it ripped off too many movies.

41:13.540 --> 41:15.520
Everyone admitted, yeah, the special effects were great.

41:15.640 --> 41:16.440
But I liked it.

41:16.520 --> 41:17.040
I enjoyed it.

41:17.180 --> 41:18.820
Let's break it apart.

41:18.940 --> 41:22.760
Let's do an actual critical review point by point.

41:22.760 --> 41:26.780
Because I couldn't help but looking online before I went to see it.

41:26.860 --> 41:28.080
I didn't want to read anything.

41:28.180 --> 41:28.840
I didn't want to ruin it.

41:28.880 --> 41:32.460
But I couldn't help notice that there were a lot of people giving it bad reviews.

41:32.460 --> 41:35.640
Well, people gave the second movie bad reviews as well.

41:35.840 --> 41:37.440
And I thought it was fantastic.

41:38.260 --> 41:39.840
I thought Reloaded was great.

41:40.280 --> 41:41.040
And I agree with you.

41:41.120 --> 41:44.300
I think Revolutions was also a darn good movie.

41:44.800 --> 41:52.360
Here's the thing about that, my opinion of it, is that, first of all, when The Matrix came out in 99 or whatever, it was so groundbreaking.

41:52.640 --> 41:53.300
It was so different.

41:53.720 --> 41:55.980
People did not have a frame of reference for it.

41:55.980 --> 42:00.880
So they were just blown away because it was so different, which is a good thing, right?

42:01.040 --> 42:01.300
Right.

42:01.500 --> 42:01.860
Of course.

42:01.880 --> 42:04.540
Now, people had expectations for the second movie.

42:05.360 --> 42:07.300
And they knew what the characters were.

42:07.500 --> 42:09.240
And they said, well, this should be this way.

42:09.280 --> 42:10.020
This should be that way.

42:10.320 --> 42:13.360
And when it didn't quite fit, people weren't happy about it.

42:13.360 --> 42:22.200
Well, now with the third movie, when we've known so much more about the characters, about the environment, about everything else, I mean, there's tons of things online.

42:22.280 --> 42:24.960
They will give you some URLs to pop up in the show notes as well.

42:24.980 --> 42:30.740
But there's tons of stuff online, I mean, about all these various theories that people had about things.

42:30.740 --> 42:32.560
Like, there's going to be a Matrix in the Matrix.

42:33.360 --> 42:33.820
Oh, yeah.

42:34.080 --> 42:37.640
Well, I mean, on the forums, on the BinRev forums, you can go back and search.

42:37.640 --> 42:40.680
And we, myself included, I was very much into them.

42:40.840 --> 42:47.060
And I'm like, any movie that makes you think about it and talk about it with others, and maybe it's this, and how cool would it be if it was that?

42:47.840 --> 42:50.440
When's the last time any movie did that?

42:51.240 --> 42:55.140
And how can you say it's bad when it does prompt you to do stuff like that?

42:56.260 --> 42:58.540
Anything that simulates the gray matter can't be that bad.

42:58.540 --> 43:03.980
I mean, normally, if you leave a good movie, you walk out going, wow, that was so cool.

43:03.980 --> 43:09.860
This person kicked butt, or that person was just, oh, the special effects were great, and the acting was just super duper.

43:10.240 --> 43:12.400
I'm trying to use controlled language, you notice that?

43:12.400 --> 43:13.120
Yeah, very good.

43:13.460 --> 43:17.720
And, you know, you walk out of there, and you're like, when you drive home, you go to bed, that's it.

43:18.000 --> 43:21.540
You know, the most you'll ever talk about that movie again is, oh, yeah, I saw that.

43:21.560 --> 43:22.240
It was really good.

43:22.760 --> 43:25.100
But with the Matrix, you find yourself talking.

43:25.200 --> 43:27.780
Well, wait a minute, but what did he mean when they said that?

43:27.880 --> 43:30.120
And, oh, did you notice that was snuck in there?

43:30.120 --> 43:37.020
And, oh, did you see that Trinity used Nmap, and the SSH connected, you know, all these things that are just amazing.

43:37.120 --> 43:38.220
They're still finding stuff.

43:38.300 --> 43:40.700
What was the one I read recently about the license plate?

43:41.920 --> 43:46.280
Oh, the license plate was Isaiah something on one of the cars in Reloaded.

43:46.340 --> 43:47.260
Do you know what I'm talking about?

43:47.440 --> 43:48.280
No, I didn't hear about that one.

43:48.520 --> 43:51.400
I will, doggone it, I wish I could remember it right now.

43:51.400 --> 43:55.600
I think I posted it in the forums, but I will put it in the show notes after the fact.

43:55.920 --> 44:00.520
There was a license plate, and it was about the architect.

44:01.340 --> 44:05.820
There was a license plate that said I-S, like, and then a verse from the Bible.

44:06.500 --> 44:13.220
And if you go look that verse up, it was something about, I am the architect, I have created all which you can see, or something like that,

44:13.280 --> 44:17.420
which was on the, I think it was on the license plate of a car that had Smith in it or something.

44:17.420 --> 44:21.400
And it made you think again, well, wait a minute, is there a relationship here and there?

44:21.640 --> 44:24.780
And, you know, all these little things, and these are still coming out.

44:24.840 --> 44:28.660
People are finding, after they go to DVD, they're still finding little tidbits like this.

44:28.940 --> 44:34.960
I think, you know, just the nature of DVD more so than even, you know, videotape allows you to do that and stuff.

44:35.300 --> 44:42.280
As a matter of fact, Meme talked about something on the bench that, I guess, Neo and the Oracle said it.

44:42.300 --> 44:46.140
There was a little plaque on there, and she stopped it and did a freeze from it.

44:46.140 --> 44:51.840
She didn't want to spoil what it was, but she said there was something really there that was really insightful or whatever else.

44:51.880 --> 44:54.560
It was just like this little park bench that had this little plaque on it.

44:54.920 --> 45:01.460
And when I'm watching, I got reloaded, the DVD for reloaded, you know, a few days before the movie.

45:01.600 --> 45:03.460
So, actually, I didn't watch reloaded again.

45:03.580 --> 45:05.760
I watched all the making of and all that other stuff.

45:05.840 --> 45:08.560
And you can see someone sitting there as they're talking about making the movie.

45:08.560 --> 45:12.700
They're sitting on this park bench, and there's this little brass plate about stuff.

45:12.700 --> 45:17.680
But, yeah, there are multiple levels of meanings, and that's specifically what they went for.

45:18.020 --> 45:18.120
Right.

45:18.200 --> 45:22.640
And, you know, another good plug-in, or whatever you want to call it, was the Animatrix.

45:23.220 --> 45:26.000
You have all these extra stories that also tie into the movie.

45:26.320 --> 45:28.200
And I did the same thing on the Animatrix.

45:28.320 --> 45:34.140
I freeze-framed on a couple spots, and you could see the names of the ships in the background and the date that it was launched.

45:34.220 --> 45:35.140
And they were accurate.

45:35.540 --> 45:38.380
You know, they made, I mean, accurate to the storyline, that is to say.

45:38.380 --> 45:42.700
You know, it was put into commission 50 years before the movie took place.

45:42.940 --> 45:46.540
And, I mean, everything was, I mean, they thought out every little detail.

45:46.720 --> 45:53.020
And that's, first of all, for the whole trilogy and the whole series, there was a lot of thought put into it.

45:53.600 --> 45:59.280
Now, I mentioned earlier about the Isaiah and the Bible verse, which, again, I'll look that up for the show notes.

45:59.280 --> 46:10.200
But you mentioned earlier that people were complaining about the religious undertones and the allusions to religious topics and themes, obviously with Neo.

46:11.560 --> 46:14.520
Do you think that there was, did it cross a line?

46:14.580 --> 46:15.580
Do you think there was too much?

46:16.940 --> 46:20.800
Well, there was definitely some symbolism in there, and I'm sure it was deliberately done.

46:21.000 --> 46:26.960
And, obviously, for the listeners, we're trying not to, you know, disclose any of the specifics about things, just talk about things in generalities.

46:26.960 --> 46:32.000
But there was even, I read an article on...

46:32.000 --> 46:33.640
I'm sorry, actually, let me interrupt you, Rex.

46:33.660 --> 46:35.840
You're right, we should have actually prefaced this.

46:36.560 --> 46:42.860
And I may go back afterwards and edit in the beginning, put a disclaimer that if anybody who hasn't seen the movie, I don't want to give too much away.

46:43.280 --> 46:46.920
So far, we've been pretty general, but we may go into some detail upcoming.

46:47.080 --> 46:52.820
So, if you have not seen it, this might be a good point to stop listening and listen after you've seen the movie.

46:53.540 --> 46:54.340
Right, absolutely.

46:54.560 --> 46:55.340
So, I'm sorry, go ahead.

46:55.340 --> 46:56.120
I didn't mean to interrupt that.

46:56.140 --> 46:57.480
I just thought we ought to throw that out there, though.

46:57.700 --> 46:58.240
Right, right.

46:58.380 --> 47:01.940
But, anyway, there was a website that was talking about that.

47:02.000 --> 47:03.620
I mean, lots of websites were talking about this.

47:03.700 --> 47:08.660
This was a Buddhist website called killingthebuddha, kvd.com or .org or something.

47:08.780 --> 47:15.080
But, anyway, so the thing is, depending on who you are, and deliberately the Wachowski brothers decided to do this,

47:15.640 --> 47:17.720
that you can look at it from different perspectives.

47:17.720 --> 47:27.140
So, some of the obvious things is, you know, that in Christianity, right, so Neo is the Messiah.

47:27.280 --> 47:28.600
That's a very obvious thing.

47:28.700 --> 47:33.620
Matter of fact, someone even noticed, you know, if you rearrange the letters in Neo, it spells one, so he's the one.

47:33.620 --> 47:39.220
And even, like, in the first movie, the door that, you know, his apartment was, like, 101 or something like that.

47:39.240 --> 47:40.700
So, all those other layers of things.

47:41.080 --> 47:45.920
But then someone else brought up the fact that, you know, it's very much like the Jewish hero myth.

47:46.280 --> 47:49.640
And then someone brought up the fact, well, there's a lot of Buddhist overtones in these things.

47:49.640 --> 47:57.700
And, again, that was, I'm sure, deliberately done because they want to, as Stank said, you know, there's so many layers of things.

47:57.780 --> 48:02.520
When you go back and look at this thing over and over, you start to see all these various parts and pieces.

48:02.960 --> 48:10.060
Now, in the third movie, Revelations or Resolutions or whatever you want to call it, there's just spoofs out there already.

48:10.840 --> 48:18.880
But, for example, in one part, and this really isn't too much of a spoiler, but as Neo is doing his stuff there,

48:18.960 --> 48:23.780
he's kind of, like, outstretched, so it's kind of like Jesus on the cross type of thing.

48:23.880 --> 48:26.280
You know, so that was a very obvious one.

48:26.780 --> 48:32.560
But, you know, I don't think that there was too much of that, at least in my opinion.

48:33.320 --> 48:35.000
Well, you know, it's funny.

48:35.200 --> 48:38.400
I am a Christian.

48:38.500 --> 48:39.420
I'm not afraid to say that.

48:39.420 --> 48:41.780
But I didn't pick up on any of that.

48:42.620 --> 48:44.160
And that's, I thought that was very odd.

48:44.260 --> 48:53.700
I didn't pick up on any of it until after, like at the very end, at the very end, I kind of got a little bit of a feeling of it.

48:54.580 --> 48:59.600
But it wasn't until afterwards reading some of people's comments and I'm like, oh, yeah, good point.

48:59.700 --> 49:02.200
Oh, I see that now after the fact.

49:02.740 --> 49:08.260
So I don't, to me, it didn't come across as very obvious, which obviously some people disagree.

49:08.260 --> 49:23.900
They thought it was very forced and it was, you know, I don't know if it was negative or the people seem to portray it as though it was a complete, I don't know if you can say a ripoff of the Bible, but a ripoff of the whole, the one, the story of the one, the Messiah.

49:23.900 --> 49:24.380
Yeah, exactly.

49:24.380 --> 49:34.440
I didn't get it as being that obvious, but maybe I was just more open-minded and willing to accept things for what I see.

49:34.520 --> 49:41.080
I go with what I see and hear and I was willing to accept the simple fact that, yes, I know Neos is the one.

49:41.080 --> 49:42.340
I know that.

49:42.680 --> 49:56.740
I also found, even these weird little things like the first human city was 01, or excuse me, the first robot city was called 01, which ironically, you know, binary, that's kind of a really good fit.

49:56.740 --> 50:10.060
And then the human city was Zion, which is like, I don't know, maybe a little elite speak coming out of me where the one and the zero, the I and the O, the fact that it began with the letter Z, the complete opposite of 01.

50:10.340 --> 50:11.500
I mean, little things like that.

50:12.240 --> 50:22.340
All this stuff I noticed afterwards, while I was watching it, I was able to just suspend myself from being analytical and looking for things to dislike and looking for parallels.

50:22.340 --> 50:25.280
I was enjoying myself watching the movie.

50:26.580 --> 50:30.360
First of all, I should also say, I am definitely not the person to go to the movie theater with.

50:30.420 --> 50:32.020
My friends will tell you that I'm the worst.

50:32.620 --> 50:33.840
I will yell at the movie.

50:33.960 --> 50:34.600
I get excited.

50:34.740 --> 50:35.640
I get into the movie.

50:36.200 --> 50:39.740
And I found myself in revelations, revolutions.

50:39.880 --> 50:41.420
Now, you messed me up when you said that now.

50:41.700 --> 50:46.420
In revolutions, I found myself several times jumping up and saying, you go, Neo.

50:47.120 --> 50:49.080
You know, I was into the movie.

50:49.080 --> 50:55.100
Very few movies pulled me in as far as this trilogy of movies did.

50:56.020 --> 51:00.500
The other thing that people were criticizing was just broad generalities.

51:01.460 --> 51:05.280
And I only saw the one point that they were mentioning.

51:05.500 --> 51:13.240
But it was the fact that this Matrix 3 ripped off all these other sci-fi idioms.

51:13.640 --> 51:15.300
They did all these little things.

51:15.300 --> 51:22.600
There was one scene in Matrix 3 that hearkened very much back to Matrix 1.

51:22.720 --> 51:24.500
Again, we're trying not to spoil the thing for you.

51:25.320 --> 51:27.460
Well, they should have stopped listening at this point.

51:27.660 --> 51:28.800
Don't hold back.

51:28.880 --> 51:29.880
Go ahead and make the point.

51:30.680 --> 51:31.220
Well, all right.

51:31.260 --> 51:37.820
So we've got in Matrix 1 the famous lobby scene, right, where they're running through and running off the walls and hiding behind the pillars and all that.

51:37.820 --> 51:48.280
So there's a scene in Matrix 3 that has very much like that when they come out of the elevators and the bad guys are there and they're shooting and they're going behind the pillars and stuff.

51:48.520 --> 51:53.780
Now, though, of course, everyone's not only running off the walls, they're completely upside down with their feet on the ceiling and stuff.

51:54.240 --> 51:57.580
And if it's borrowing from yourself, I don't consider that a ripoff.

51:57.720 --> 51:59.400
I mean, you came up with that, right?

51:59.480 --> 52:00.260
Okay, it's fair game.

52:00.320 --> 52:01.620
You can use that again if you want to.

52:01.620 --> 52:08.380
Yeah, and, you know, first of all, it's very dramatic to open an elevator door and it's a very dramatic entrance.

52:09.040 --> 52:15.780
So, you know, there's nothing wrong with using camera angles and scenes to develop, especially when you came up with it.

52:15.860 --> 52:17.780
But also, I did notice that one.

52:18.060 --> 52:22.720
When I was watching, I'm like, okay, this was a lot like the other one but much, much cooler.

52:23.520 --> 52:25.460
So I thought it was much better this time.

52:25.460 --> 52:37.120
And, again, that it was, I mean, that's like saying, oh, well, every boxing movie is always ripped off of Rocky or whatever, you know,

52:37.140 --> 52:41.260
whatever the first boxing movie because, you know, everything is the same as that one.

52:41.480 --> 52:44.040
I mean, it's really, I mean, what do you expect?

52:44.140 --> 52:46.400
There's nothing wrong with having action scenes.

52:46.600 --> 52:48.460
It's a little bit different each time.

52:48.460 --> 52:54.280
You can't come up with, there's a lot of other original fighting scenes.

52:54.420 --> 52:57.000
There's a lot of other, like, here's another one I hear criticized.

52:57.240 --> 53:02.940
The very end, and this is giving something away, so definitely stop listening if you haven't seen this.

53:03.300 --> 53:05.800
The very end fight between Smith and Neo.

53:06.960 --> 53:11.980
The one that starts off on the street with all the Smiths lined up on the side.

53:12.220 --> 53:12.460
Right.

53:12.460 --> 53:21.060
It turns into this giant one-on-one, mano-a-mano finale to the movie that just took my breath away.

53:21.680 --> 53:22.760
I was amazed.

53:22.900 --> 53:24.900
I thought it was the most fantastic thing.

53:25.480 --> 53:31.160
And then I see people online saying they ripped it off of Dragon Ball Z, which apparently is some anime.

53:31.300 --> 53:33.660
I know it's an anime, but I never watched it.

53:34.240 --> 53:41.320
You know, it's on, like, every day after school or something, so it can't be, you know, I won't even go there.

53:41.320 --> 53:44.240
But I don't see how you're ripping off a cartoon.

53:45.100 --> 53:48.540
The way I see it, it took three movies to build up.

53:48.620 --> 53:51.020
Like, back to the fight scene from The Elevator.

53:51.300 --> 53:56.500
The first movie, you had to open your mind, and they had to slowly open your mind as a viewer to say,

53:57.100 --> 53:59.360
Oh, my gosh, they can do those kind of jumps?

53:59.800 --> 54:02.880
They can climb the wall like that and shoot and spin and flip?

54:03.300 --> 54:05.120
Wow, that's really cool, you know?

54:05.200 --> 54:07.360
I understand The Matrix gives them extra freedom.

54:07.360 --> 54:14.760
It took until the second and even the third movie before you realized they are improving with age.

54:14.860 --> 54:16.480
They are improving as the movie goes on.

54:16.540 --> 54:20.620
They are learning and mastering the art of The Matrix themselves.

54:20.740 --> 54:25.340
They are learning how to move and control The Matrix, which is the whole premise to the whole thing.

54:25.340 --> 54:29.440
So by the time the third movie got there, I expected them to take it to the next level.

54:29.740 --> 54:34.580
If they would have put that final scene in the first or second movie, it wouldn't have been believable.

54:34.980 --> 54:38.180
It doesn't have to be realistic, but it has to be believable.

54:38.520 --> 54:42.880
Plus, you know, they didn't have the state of the art of technology in 99.

54:43.240 --> 54:45.220
We were talking about how quickly technology moves, right?

54:45.280 --> 54:48.140
Between, you know, the whole CGI stuff and everything else,

54:48.140 --> 54:52.980
what they are able to do now versus what they were able to do in 99, four years ago.

54:53.460 --> 54:55.100
You know, it is just a quantum leap ahead.

54:56.420 --> 54:57.460
Yeah, it is.

54:58.500 --> 55:02.900
I really think that this is the greatest trilogy of movies since Star Wars.

55:03.580 --> 55:04.560
Well, since Lord of the Rings.

55:04.800 --> 55:07.320
Since, well, yeah, darn, you got me on that one.

55:07.520 --> 55:08.740
Lord of the Rings is phenomenal.

55:08.740 --> 55:13.780
Right, yeah, that is like the greatest piece of literature, English literature in the 20th century.

55:13.920 --> 55:15.520
So, I mean, you have got to give it its due.

55:15.520 --> 55:19.880
You know, here is a little tidbit of trivia that no one cares about, about Stank.

55:20.260 --> 55:29.620
I actually took the fantastic in literature as a course at a university where I got credit to read Lord of the Rings.

55:30.400 --> 55:32.760
I got credit to read Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.

55:33.620 --> 55:37.320
And it was taught by, geez, I can't give out too much information.

55:37.360 --> 55:41.680
It was taught by a very famous fantasy author.

55:41.680 --> 55:45.580
See, if I give out too much, see, that was like a bad, I shouldn't have even brought that up.

55:45.780 --> 55:48.560
Because if I give out too much away, that will tie it down to me pretty closely.

55:49.200 --> 55:52.120
But I actually got college credit to read those books.

55:52.580 --> 55:54.640
And I had, of course, read them before that anyway.

55:54.920 --> 55:57.720
So, great piece of literature.

55:58.160 --> 55:58.860
And what do you think of it?

55:59.000 --> 56:02.240
We probably didn't mean to go into this tangent, but what do you think about those movies?

56:02.640 --> 56:05.320
Oh, they're just phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal.

56:05.320 --> 56:06.860
Yeah, phenomenal. Phenomenal.

56:06.920 --> 56:12.600
It doesn't bother you that the whole Liv Tyler, the adaptation, and giving her more screen time.

56:12.940 --> 56:14.920
Yeah, not at all.

56:15.040 --> 56:15.260
No?

56:15.560 --> 56:15.880
Not at all.

56:16.080 --> 56:20.420
Now, mind you, I'm not a Tolkien purist or anything.

56:20.640 --> 56:23.960
I'm sure some of the people are really ticked off by anything of that nature.

56:24.240 --> 56:24.300
Right.

56:24.880 --> 56:26.120
That's the same people that said,

56:26.200 --> 56:30.100
Wolverine wasn't wearing his tights and his claws don't come out the middle of his fingers,

56:30.180 --> 56:31.500
they come out the top of his hand.

56:31.760 --> 56:33.060
Just shut up and watch the movie.

56:33.060 --> 56:36.940
Yeah, I've got to go back to something you mentioned earlier about the Animatrix.

56:37.220 --> 56:37.880
By all means.

56:38.120 --> 56:44.480
And there was really, they really called like the Animatrix in this second DVD for Reloaded.

56:45.000 --> 56:48.140
They said that Animatrix was really like the Matrix 1.5.

56:48.740 --> 56:51.320
But between that, to really get the full experience of it now,

56:51.520 --> 56:55.600
because there was so much of a time like between, you know, 99 when the first Matrix came out,

56:56.020 --> 56:58.460
between Matrix 2 and Matrix 3, right?

56:58.540 --> 57:00.960
Matrix 2 was like in May, Matrix 3 is now in November.

57:01.240 --> 57:01.560
Right.

57:01.560 --> 57:06.520
So for Matrix 2 coming out, you know, I was watching the first Matrix again.

57:06.620 --> 57:10.460
I went out and I got the Animatrix as soon as I could.

57:10.560 --> 57:12.860
I also went out and I bought the game, the Matrix game.

57:14.080 --> 57:16.940
And I played that the whole, took the day off.

57:17.000 --> 57:20.700
I played that the whole day before going to see the movie that night.

57:20.760 --> 57:23.620
And there was a bunch of us from the 2600 meeting all went out together and saw that.

57:23.620 --> 57:28.580
But I was really, you know, I was really kind of focused back into it the whole time.

57:28.840 --> 57:29.900
Now, is there stuff in there?

57:29.900 --> 57:35.000
I heard that the game actually has some expanding on the story or some relationship.

57:35.520 --> 57:35.580
Oh, yeah.

57:35.580 --> 57:40.180
There is about an hour and a half of extra live footage or an hour of extra live footage in the game.

57:40.180 --> 57:45.920
Plus, it's going on in parallel with the second Matrix movie.

57:45.920 --> 57:52.960
And the game ends with the logos being stuck down in the tunnels, which is where the Matrix 3 picks up.

57:52.960 --> 58:00.420
So, really, to get the full experience of it, you've got to watch the Animatrix reloaded and then do the game as well.

58:00.780 --> 58:06.540
And they actually used, they even had on this DVD, which obviously I'm highly recommending,

58:08.020 --> 58:09.320
that's about the making of the game.

58:09.480 --> 58:11.300
And they had this, the Wachowskis wrote it.

58:11.840 --> 58:14.440
They had the same people doing the music, the animation.

58:14.640 --> 58:17.480
They had the actors down there, of course, doing the voice work.

58:17.840 --> 58:21.420
But they had all the little dots on them, you know, so they could do motion capture and everything.

58:21.720 --> 58:21.980
Right.

58:21.980 --> 58:25.820
It was really completely an integral part of the story.

58:26.360 --> 58:33.080
So, if you want to really see and get the full experience, get the Animatrix, get the game, and do Reloaded.

58:33.960 --> 58:41.460
Yeah, and, you know, this was the first time in my life, in my lifetime,

58:42.480 --> 58:45.040
and historically we didn't have the technology and everything.

58:47.060 --> 58:50.540
For example, what I'm trying to say is, Lord of the Rings, let's go back to that.

58:50.540 --> 58:52.000
Great, great movies.

58:52.000 --> 58:58.880
The Matrix is, it's not just the movies.

58:58.960 --> 59:00.740
I can't quite even think of the words.

59:00.880 --> 59:02.540
I can't even think of vocabulary to explain.

59:03.000 --> 59:04.460
It is immersive.

59:05.300 --> 59:07.180
It's the most immersive experience.

59:07.460 --> 59:09.340
It's not just about seeing the movies.

59:10.040 --> 59:11.700
The video game brings you in.

59:12.120 --> 59:13.400
The website brings you in.

59:13.420 --> 59:16.180
They had the greatest hack the Matrix thing going on in the website.

59:16.180 --> 59:20.640
I don't know if you followed that at all, where you could go on and play with some of the interfaces

59:20.640 --> 59:25.440
and come up with hidden things and tricks, and you could hack the site.

59:25.540 --> 59:27.160
It was designed and written to be hacked.

59:27.780 --> 59:28.840
And that was really fun.

59:29.160 --> 59:30.540
You've got, like I said, the video game.

59:30.620 --> 59:33.240
You've got the Animatrix that pulls you in.

59:33.400 --> 59:37.100
I mean, it's the most immersive use of...

59:37.100 --> 59:39.620
I just don't even know how to put it in words.

59:39.620 --> 59:43.500
I've never felt more immersed in a world or an environment before.

59:44.520 --> 59:48.920
You go to a movie, you watch it, you leave, you're happy, you're not happy, you're disappointed.

59:49.320 --> 59:51.920
But I felt like I was a part of this.

59:52.040 --> 59:54.060
I felt like I knew what was going on.

59:54.320 --> 59:55.920
All these little side stories.

59:56.120 --> 01:00:01.620
I mean, there was so much to get involved with that I just can't see...

01:00:02.140 --> 01:00:06.320
I really can't think of anything bad to say about the whole trilogy.

01:00:06.320 --> 01:00:12.400
There are, I mean, if I want to be really critical, yes, there were some scenes in certain movies

01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:15.320
and a couple little flaws or holes that I found,

01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:20.640
but I could suspend that disbelief for the sake of the movie and for what it was.

01:00:21.120 --> 01:00:23.980
And I didn't, you know, I don't want to nitpick little things here and there.

01:00:24.820 --> 01:00:28.320
So, I think all in all, it was...

01:00:29.480 --> 01:00:34.680
Again, one of the greatest trilogy series of all time.

01:00:36.320 --> 01:00:42.300
Yeah, I mean, again, it's actually had an impact on culture at any time a movie or something can do that.

01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:45.600
I guess that's a hallmark of a great piece of work.

01:00:46.200 --> 01:00:49.300
Yeah, I mean, am I getting at a...

01:00:49.300 --> 01:00:51.540
I know I'm struggling for words, but do you understand what I'm saying?

01:00:51.640 --> 01:00:53.180
I mean, that it pulls you in.

01:00:54.080 --> 01:00:59.400
Like you said, you spent the whole day playing that game because you were immersed in that game.

01:00:59.720 --> 01:01:01.220
It drew you.

01:01:01.320 --> 01:01:03.080
It made you want to play and learn more.

01:01:03.080 --> 01:01:07.340
Right, and by the way, too, the game, you can play it as two of the different characters,

01:01:07.460 --> 01:01:11.300
either as Niobe or Ghost, and you can go play through the whole game

01:01:11.300 --> 01:01:13.280
and you actually do different things if you're different characters,

01:01:13.400 --> 01:01:15.060
which is kind of a neat aspect, too.

01:01:15.320 --> 01:01:21.560
But I think part of, you know, what makes the Matrix that immersive environment, as you're saying,

01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:23.380
as opposed to a Lord of the Rings.

01:01:23.500 --> 01:01:25.340
A Lord of the Rings is a fantasy escape.

01:01:25.340 --> 01:01:29.980
You know, there's dragons, there's evil things and, you know, monsters and all that other stuff.

01:01:30.340 --> 01:01:35.320
Well, the Matrix is so close to reality, or so close to our quote-unquote reality, right?

01:01:35.560 --> 01:01:38.900
And it's even set right about approximately the same time frame.

01:01:39.020 --> 01:01:40.700
So with the computers, with everything else.

01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:46.060
And you can get, you know, if you stretch your mind not that far,

01:01:46.180 --> 01:01:50.440
you can see, you can almost see how that, yeah, that could really be almost real.

01:01:51.300 --> 01:01:52.000
Yeah, absolutely.

01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:54.940
Because it's not set, you know, in the land of Middle Earth

01:01:54.940 --> 01:01:59.060
and, you know, sometime in the, you know, undetermined past and so on and so forth.

01:01:59.140 --> 01:02:02.880
That's set right now in our modern times with things we can see.

01:02:03.460 --> 01:02:09.740
And the other thing, I think, that, you know, teenagers and younger people may seem to do with that

01:02:09.740 --> 01:02:13.540
and really get into it is because they're disenfranchised.

01:02:13.720 --> 01:02:16.580
And, you know, here's some psychology coming out, right?

01:02:16.600 --> 01:02:19.120
But anyway, it's because they're disenfranchised now with the world.

01:02:19.120 --> 01:02:22.780
And, you know, they feel like they're an outsider and all that other stuff

01:02:22.780 --> 01:02:25.480
that I think people really identify with that.

01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:28.080
Yeah, sometimes you feel like you're in the Matrix.

01:02:28.540 --> 01:02:28.900
Absolutely.

01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:29.760
You know?

01:02:30.140 --> 01:02:32.880
So it's escapism, which is what movies should be.

01:02:33.060 --> 01:02:36.900
It's what movies are for to escape reality, even if it's only for a few hours.

01:02:37.500 --> 01:02:37.700
Yep.

01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:43.080
Well, you know, the last, well, first of all, there's, they left enough of an opening

01:02:43.080 --> 01:02:46.020
that potentially there could be a fourth movie.

01:02:46.020 --> 01:02:48.700
Or maybe they'll just do it as an anime thing or whatever.

01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:49.880
Well, let's talk about that.

01:02:50.080 --> 01:02:55.320
Did they, I, the one thing that would have made me mad is if they would have ended the

01:02:55.320 --> 01:02:56.680
trilogy without closure.

01:02:57.580 --> 01:03:00.360
I felt like I got the closure that I wanted.

01:03:01.180 --> 01:03:07.180
Did you feel like they left the, were there any unanswered questions that were critical

01:03:07.180 --> 01:03:09.480
or that made you feel, you know, leaving unfulfilled?

01:03:09.480 --> 01:03:09.660
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

01:03:09.760 --> 01:03:10.420
What happened to Neo?

01:03:11.620 --> 01:03:13.160
He's taken away by the machines.

01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:15.540
Well, the machines know enough about human beings.

01:03:15.680 --> 01:03:20.620
And if you, again, if you've seen the Animatrix, you'll know that the machines understand the

01:03:20.620 --> 01:03:21.480
physiology of humans.

01:03:21.740 --> 01:03:25.020
The machines had to understand humans well enough to hook them up to be the batteries, right?

01:03:25.620 --> 01:03:29.580
So, yeah, Neo's blinded and he's, you know, exhausted and whatever else.

01:03:29.660 --> 01:03:31.480
Now, if the machines take them away, are they going to rebuild them?

01:03:31.540 --> 01:03:32.960
Are they going to make them better, stronger, faster?

01:03:33.560 --> 01:03:36.180
Are they going to stick him back in a pod to power their, uh...

01:03:36.180 --> 01:03:39.400
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, so what's, what's going to, so that was very open-ended.

01:03:39.400 --> 01:03:45.140
But see, I, I took it for the simple fact of, I'm going to assume for the sake of this

01:03:45.140 --> 01:03:51.420
trilogy and this story that he died at the end, which again goes to the whole Messiah

01:03:51.420 --> 01:03:56.160
thing, the whole, maybe that's the next thing, the born again, the coming back from the dead.

01:03:56.340 --> 01:03:56.560
Right.

01:03:56.620 --> 01:03:57.400
We won't even go there.

01:03:57.540 --> 01:04:02.540
I'm going to assume for the sake of this short, enclosed part of the whole story that

01:04:02.540 --> 01:04:08.140
he died, that he allowed the machines to pass through with him to kill Smith, in turn,

01:04:08.680 --> 01:04:13.200
killing him at the same time they killed each other because the whole issue of balance,

01:04:13.300 --> 01:04:18.680
the architect and the, the, uh, the Oracle, excuse me, the whole thing of how it's balanced.

01:04:18.800 --> 01:04:20.340
One is the yin, one is the yang.

01:04:20.420 --> 01:04:25.080
They're both, the only way that it could be healed and stop everything was for them to kill

01:04:25.080 --> 01:04:25.500
each other.

01:04:25.500 --> 01:04:29.160
I took it like that and I was happy with that.

01:04:29.540 --> 01:04:31.980
Now, yes, obviously, absolutely.

01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:35.460
It's wide open that they could say, ah, ha, ha.

01:04:35.780 --> 01:04:37.180
You only thought he was dead.

01:04:37.840 --> 01:04:41.520
You know, it's very open that they could, but for right now, for closure of this story,

01:04:41.640 --> 01:04:43.680
I was content with that.

01:04:43.800 --> 01:04:50.200
I was still a little, I guess I, I still am a little confused onto the ending as to exactly

01:04:50.200 --> 01:04:56.020
if I'm reading too much or not enough into it, like, I kind of almost wish the story

01:04:56.020 --> 01:04:58.340
would have ended with Neo face down in the water.

01:04:59.660 --> 01:05:03.000
I'm kind of thinking if the, if the movie would have ended there, I would have also been

01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:04.520
happy, maybe even more so.

01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:10.680
I think coming back as the Oracle, I think that was a little bit more, made me scratch

01:05:10.680 --> 01:05:11.480
my head going, what?

01:05:11.980 --> 01:05:17.060
Well, you saw that the Oracle was assimilated by Smith, so that was the one that, uh, just

01:05:17.060 --> 01:05:19.740
happened to be the one that stepped out to, to take and do the fight.

01:05:20.200 --> 01:05:20.560
Mm-hmm.

01:05:20.760 --> 01:05:24.340
But, uh, you know, the other thing that's kind of unanswered is that little girl that

01:05:24.340 --> 01:05:28.760
was with the Oracle at the end, and, you know, when they're off, and it's a, you know, the

01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:31.680
beautiful rainbow sunset thing or whatever, or sunrise.

01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:32.140
Right.

01:05:32.220 --> 01:05:33.980
The Oracle says, little girl, did you do that?

01:05:34.040 --> 01:05:34.620
And she says, yeah.

01:05:35.220 --> 01:05:35.540
Exactly.

01:05:35.840 --> 01:05:37.520
She was a program without a purpose, right?

01:05:37.580 --> 01:05:40.800
First of all, programs, making other programs and that, but she was a program without a purpose,

01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:42.560
so what's, what's her purpose?

01:05:42.660 --> 01:05:44.300
Now, is she, is she the new one?

01:05:44.360 --> 01:05:45.940
I was getting ready, I was getting ready to say that.

01:05:45.960 --> 01:05:48.900
The only thing I could think is that they were alluding to her being the next one.

01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:49.660
Yeah.

01:05:49.660 --> 01:05:53.960
But if that's the case, how did she exist with the current one, which was Neo?

01:05:54.220 --> 01:05:57.400
But she, and on top of that, she's not, quote, unquote, a real person.

01:05:57.520 --> 01:05:58.540
She's a program.

01:05:59.140 --> 01:06:01.780
So, there's a lot, I think there's a lot of unanswered questions.

01:06:01.880 --> 01:06:06.060
I think they have enough range, enough space, they could, they could certainly make a fourth

01:06:06.060 --> 01:06:06.880
movie if they wanted to.

01:06:06.900 --> 01:06:08.360
Oh, they have an infinite range.

01:06:08.360 --> 01:06:14.600
I think they could make an entire series, and I think they could also spin off a lot of

01:06:14.600 --> 01:06:15.040
things.

01:06:15.520 --> 01:06:19.460
Speaking of series, let's, let's hope and pray that they don't make a television series out

01:06:19.460 --> 01:06:19.620
of it.

01:06:19.660 --> 01:06:21.000
That's the way to kill anything.

01:06:21.000 --> 01:06:29.560
Yeah, you know, well, I don't, I tend to agree with you, but going with that whole immersion

01:06:29.560 --> 01:06:34.160
thing, they've done the web, they've done the anime, they've done music, they've done

01:06:34.160 --> 01:06:38.880
movies, they've done DVDs with all the extra stuff, hidden things here.

01:06:38.880 --> 01:06:43.300
You know, I'm sure books, you know, comics will be coming out, comic books.

01:06:44.240 --> 01:06:46.420
I don't know, is TV part of that equation?

01:06:47.260 --> 01:06:48.000
I don't think so.

01:06:48.300 --> 01:06:51.780
I don't think so, because you look at all the great movies that they've done, that they've

01:06:51.780 --> 01:06:56.680
turned it into a TV series, just to try to cash in on it, and I don't think it's really

01:06:56.680 --> 01:06:57.180
been effective.

01:06:57.900 --> 01:07:02.780
So, hopefully they're not, I'd rather see them, you know, do more anime, just do, like

01:07:02.780 --> 01:07:07.420
the first one in the Animatrix, you know, the CGI, you know, the exquisite CGI anime,

01:07:07.420 --> 01:07:11.660
stuff like that, rather than doing a, you know, rather than doing anything else.

01:07:12.660 --> 01:07:16.640
You know, the one other thing that we didn't mention, we talked a little bit about the

01:07:16.640 --> 01:07:26.020
game, and there is going to be a online, massively multiple player online game of the Matrix.

01:07:26.240 --> 01:07:26.560
Right.

01:07:27.200 --> 01:07:31.960
And that's coming out, so that's probably the next step that they're doing, as, you know,

01:07:31.980 --> 01:07:36.340
you'll be able to buy the program and spend your hard-earned money every month to be

01:07:36.340 --> 01:07:39.600
addictive, I think, as you called it before, like the Evercrack Syndrome.

01:07:39.900 --> 01:07:40.260
Right.

01:07:40.400 --> 01:07:43.540
Now, see, I'm not sure what to make of that.

01:07:44.420 --> 01:07:48.760
I think that could have been something, obviously two and three came out pretty close together.

01:07:48.980 --> 01:07:55.940
That could have been something between movies, where they, you could be a player in the Matrix

01:07:55.940 --> 01:08:01.540
world, and you could see things happen, and you could, as a player in the game, wonder

01:08:01.540 --> 01:08:04.860
and think about things, and what is that over there for, and what is the significance of

01:08:04.860 --> 01:08:08.860
this person, and, you know, every once in a while, run into a Smith and watch him, and

01:08:08.860 --> 01:08:13.300
make you wonder what's going on, and then when the next movie comes out, you get answers to

01:08:13.300 --> 01:08:15.940
the questions that you came up with while you were playing the game.

01:08:16.420 --> 01:08:20.760
And that's the kind of immersion I have felt all along, was they keep leading me along with

01:08:20.760 --> 01:08:24.700
more questions, and I keep getting more answers, yet more questions, and then I get more

01:08:24.700 --> 01:08:27.800
answers, and more, you know, that's what it, I think that would have been something

01:08:27.800 --> 01:08:33.360
between movies, and like you said, maybe they do come out with a fourth, or another

01:08:33.360 --> 01:08:37.940
trilogy, or another series, or whatever, which I don't know, I haven't heard anything, have

01:08:37.940 --> 01:08:42.100
you, I don't want to give people some thought that there's going to be another one, I don't

01:08:42.100 --> 01:08:44.060
think so, I haven't heard anything to that effect of you.

01:08:44.280 --> 01:08:46.580
Haven't heard a single thing about it, no, not at all.

01:08:46.700 --> 01:08:53.100
Yeah, so, don't get your hopes up anytime soon, especially, the money that they've made

01:08:53.100 --> 01:08:55.780
on this must just be staggering.

01:08:56.660 --> 01:08:59.960
There's, I didn't get a chance to read it yet, I subscribed to Wired Magazine, and you

01:08:59.960 --> 01:09:04.200
can probably get it online, but there is a, there's an article about the Wachowski

01:09:04.200 --> 01:09:08.480
Brothers, that's coming up, so I've got to, I've got to read that, and we'll see if there's

01:09:08.480 --> 01:09:13.760
maybe anything in there that, you know, alludes to the next phase of the Matrix.

01:09:14.260 --> 01:09:14.440
Hmm.

01:09:15.440 --> 01:09:17.780
Well, I guess time will tell.

01:09:17.780 --> 01:09:22.740
So, um, and you know what, let's, let's, we gotta, I think we're over, but there's

01:09:22.740 --> 01:09:25.600
a couple scenes I still want to talk about it, I want to see what you thought about.

01:09:26.400 --> 01:09:29.500
What do you think about the whole mech, mech army?

01:09:30.720 --> 01:09:33.820
Did you have a problem with the guys climbing into the big robotic mechs?

01:09:34.260 --> 01:09:35.880
No, no, I actually thought that was kind of cool.

01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:40.760
I did too, I thought that was incredible, and the best scene of the movie to me, my jaw

01:09:40.760 --> 01:09:45.380
dropped, and I said, I can't, because I'm not cursing, I'm not going to say it, but I

01:09:45.380 --> 01:09:52.000
said, oh, shoot, when I saw that thing drop through the ceiling, and all of those little

01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:57.660
octopus things come through, that was the scene of the movie for me.

01:09:58.240 --> 01:10:01.420
Yeah, it was interesting, the way they were swarming around, like the, you know, the hive

01:10:01.420 --> 01:10:01.980
intelligence.

01:10:02.560 --> 01:10:05.000
Exactly, it was so primal.

01:10:05.620 --> 01:10:09.560
And the other thing that was interesting about that drill, is that after it dropped and fell

01:10:09.560 --> 01:10:13.320
through, you know, so it could just be the juggernaut drop and break, well, no, it, these

01:10:13.320 --> 01:10:15.260
little legs came out so it could keep drilling.

01:10:15.500 --> 01:10:16.740
Yeah, yeah.

01:10:16.900 --> 01:10:18.120
That was very interesting as well.

01:10:18.340 --> 01:10:19.660
Them machines are smart.

01:10:20.620 --> 01:10:27.160
Um, the, uh, whatever his name was, that main general or whoever that was doing the thing,

01:10:27.240 --> 01:10:29.300
he was a real kick-butt kind of a guy.

01:10:29.420 --> 01:10:34.460
Yeah, you know what, and he was, he was such a jerk in the previous parts of the movie,

01:10:34.600 --> 01:10:39.040
and he was a jerk in this movie, but I still liked him, I still liked the character.

01:10:39.560 --> 01:10:42.360
You know, all the other mechs, you got to see how many there were, I mean, there were

01:10:42.360 --> 01:10:43.180
hundreds of them, right?

01:10:43.300 --> 01:10:43.560
Yeah.

01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:46.660
Out of all the other mechs, he was the one left alive at the end.

01:10:46.760 --> 01:10:47.180
He was the last one.

01:10:47.180 --> 01:10:48.060
Oh, you're talking about that?

01:10:48.140 --> 01:10:49.500
You're talking about the big general.

01:10:49.620 --> 01:10:53.260
I thought you were talking about the guy who was underground organizing the defenses.

01:10:54.140 --> 01:10:56.700
Yeah, no, not, uh, not, uh, Niobe's, uh...

01:10:56.700 --> 01:10:58.360
Yeah, X or whatever he was.

01:10:58.500 --> 01:11:03.540
Yeah, the, uh, uh, Asian, the kind of Asian guy, uh, his name was, but he was the, you

01:11:03.540 --> 01:11:06.720
know, he was the kick-butt kind of thing, like, right at the end, you know, gung-ho,

01:11:06.860 --> 01:11:07.900
semper-fi kind of stuff.

01:11:07.900 --> 01:11:12.700
Yeah, the, the great, it was just so cool because if you've ever, obviously none of

01:11:12.700 --> 01:11:16.380
us have ever been in a mech war against an alien race or against a race of robots.

01:11:16.520 --> 01:11:17.020
However...

01:11:17.020 --> 01:11:17.860
Speak for yourself.

01:11:18.680 --> 01:11:22.700
If you've ever played a video game and you think strategy-wise, you know, there's a choke

01:11:22.700 --> 01:11:26.020
point and you'll aim your fire at that and try to stop things.

01:11:26.160 --> 01:11:29.540
Well, in that movie, when that hole came through, they knew where they were coming.

01:11:30.040 --> 01:11:31.520
You knew what was about to happen.

01:11:31.620 --> 01:11:32.300
You heard them.

01:11:32.300 --> 01:11:37.700
And every mech and the entire thing was aimed and locked on.

01:11:37.860 --> 01:11:41.080
And that was an, it was just a magnificent scene.

01:11:41.440 --> 01:11:47.080
As fast as this hive of things was coming in, they were getting mowed down.

01:11:47.400 --> 01:11:49.960
But there was such an overwhelming number of them.

01:11:50.000 --> 01:11:51.980
And I think, I think it did a good job of that.

01:11:52.440 --> 01:11:53.800
Feeling overwhelming.

01:11:54.120 --> 01:11:58.040
Feeling just like, like, again, like a hive taking possession.

01:11:58.040 --> 01:12:03.560
You know, coming in and they had all of these mechs trained on it and one or two trickled

01:12:03.560 --> 01:12:09.480
through and one or two mechs would chase him off and that's one less gun on the choke

01:12:09.480 --> 01:12:09.780
point.

01:12:10.100 --> 01:12:14.540
And they slowly got pulled away until you realized, that's it.

01:12:14.720 --> 01:12:15.600
You know, they're in.

01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:19.440
But yeah, that was, that was the scene of the movie for me.

01:12:19.440 --> 01:12:28.720
Um, the, the scene where, what do you think about the scene at the very end with Neo and

01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:31.760
Trinity going to the robot world?

01:12:32.600 --> 01:12:35.420
I was going to, I was going to bring up one point from there too that actually kind of,

01:12:35.420 --> 01:12:38.960
uh, gets back, gets back to the idea of potential for the next movie.

01:12:39.840 --> 01:12:44.160
Uh, as, uh, Neo and Trinity are doing the thing and they're making it to, you know, going

01:12:44.160 --> 01:12:45.680
there at the, uh, I thought it was awesome.

01:12:45.780 --> 01:12:47.960
Those mountains were actually like huge, you know.

01:12:47.960 --> 01:12:49.360
Yeah, they came alive.

01:12:49.520 --> 01:12:51.540
Bulldog kind of things, you know, shooting out the stuff.

01:12:52.080 --> 01:12:57.180
Uh, again, even, even for suspension of disbelief, you know, Neo being able to sticking out

01:12:57.180 --> 01:13:01.160
his hand and, uh, knocking those missiles or whatever those things were out of the way.

01:13:01.180 --> 01:13:04.200
That was, that was, that was a little bit of a stretch, but what I found interesting

01:13:04.200 --> 01:13:06.280
is that when they went up through the sky.

01:13:07.300 --> 01:13:07.660
Right.

01:13:07.860 --> 01:13:08.420
Go with it.

01:13:08.480 --> 01:13:09.200
I'm, I'm with you.

01:13:09.460 --> 01:13:10.260
That was all going.

01:13:10.360 --> 01:13:14.600
So, you know, potentially I'm thinking that that's, that's, you know, that's another thing

01:13:14.600 --> 01:13:17.140
that could be played in the next movie because let's face it, right?

01:13:17.140 --> 01:13:21.080
The machines have harnessed the human beings for energy because they can't do solar energy

01:13:21.080 --> 01:13:26.020
anymore because, as we know from the Animatrix, the, uh, people of Earth, you know, blackened

01:13:26.020 --> 01:13:31.480
out however, whatever they did, whatever technology they used to, to screen the, uh, sunlight off

01:13:31.480 --> 01:13:33.300
from the Earth to hopefully knock off the machines.

01:13:33.420 --> 01:13:37.440
Well, if the machines would know that that's out there, they could apply their technology

01:13:37.440 --> 01:13:39.420
to doing that and getting solar energy again.

01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:40.620
So maybe they could live in peace.

01:13:40.620 --> 01:13:45.680
Well, and now see, here's where this, that's, I got a little bit confused at that.

01:13:46.100 --> 01:13:51.820
They peeked up and got through the clouds or whatever and Trinity saw the sun and saw the

01:13:51.820 --> 01:13:54.420
sunlight and said how beautiful it was before they dove back in.

01:13:54.820 --> 01:13:59.060
I must have, I must have misunderstood in the Animatrix.

01:13:59.200 --> 01:14:02.060
I thought they actually like blew up the sun.

01:14:02.060 --> 01:14:05.020
I thought they didn't blacken it out.

01:14:05.120 --> 01:14:09.160
I thought they blew it up to get rid of the source of energy for the robots.

01:14:09.420 --> 01:14:11.820
No, no, they, well, think about it, you'd blow up the sun.

01:14:12.500 --> 01:14:15.720
Well, I know, and they, I think they, the whole point was they had given up.

01:14:15.780 --> 01:14:17.580
Like I said, I, obviously I misunderstood it.

01:14:17.780 --> 01:14:20.840
I thought they were saying, listen, we're going to take you out with us by taking away

01:14:20.840 --> 01:14:21.520
your source.

01:14:21.780 --> 01:14:24.000
No, they didn't, the humans didn't want to kill themselves.

01:14:24.000 --> 01:14:27.920
And there was the one scene in the Animatrix where these, these flying, they kind of reminded

01:14:27.920 --> 01:14:32.760
me of a fish, but anyway, uh, these big B-52 kind of bombers are flying through the sky

01:14:32.760 --> 01:14:37.140
and you see these black clouds coming out behind them and this, and the sunlight being blocked

01:14:37.140 --> 01:14:37.540
off.

01:14:38.040 --> 01:14:41.280
So then they, and they refer to it as burning off the sky or something.

01:14:41.600 --> 01:14:45.060
So I thought they messed up the atmosphere, the ozone layer or what have you, but no,

01:14:45.080 --> 01:14:48.240
they didn't, uh, the humans didn't, the humans weren't going to blow up themselves,

01:14:48.400 --> 01:14:51.020
you know, kill, take out the robots and themselves.

01:14:51.280 --> 01:14:52.500
The humans still wanted to live.

01:14:52.500 --> 01:14:57.520
Well, how is it that Neo was able to fly the ship, Neo and Trinity were able to fly

01:14:57.520 --> 01:15:01.580
the ship up where they could see the sun, but the robots couldn't?

01:15:01.680 --> 01:15:03.940
I mean, wouldn't they have, A, followed them up that high?

01:15:04.620 --> 01:15:06.840
Well, B, have they never tried before?

01:15:07.200 --> 01:15:09.680
They may have, A, never tried, but think about it.

01:15:09.700 --> 01:15:13.920
When they went up through that, all the, uh, all the electrical activity, the storm, like

01:15:13.920 --> 01:15:16.880
thunder and lightning type of stuff, knocked out their engines.

01:15:17.220 --> 01:15:20.960
So that's, they kept going up on momentum and that's when they dove back down is because

01:15:20.960 --> 01:15:24.100
they reached the apogee and then they started descending again.

01:15:24.180 --> 01:15:26.080
That's when Trinity had to start the motors back up.

01:15:26.240 --> 01:15:26.580
Right.

01:15:26.580 --> 01:15:31.660
Probably, with all that electrical activity, none of the, uh, you know, none of the, uh,

01:15:31.980 --> 01:15:35.980
robots, for lack of a better word, uh, you know, could, could, could go through that.

01:15:36.520 --> 01:15:37.820
They probably just never tried.

01:15:37.860 --> 01:15:40.240
It was too dangerous and they never tried to do that.

01:15:40.840 --> 01:15:41.140
Hmm.

01:15:41.140 --> 01:15:46.040
Well, they have Neo now.

01:15:47.060 --> 01:15:47.320
Yep.

01:15:47.640 --> 01:15:49.120
If he's alive, they have him.

01:15:49.840 --> 01:15:54.380
I wonder if they can, I, again, assuming their technology and knowledge of the human physiology,

01:15:55.160 --> 01:15:57.660
they can read his mind and know that it's up there.

01:15:57.740 --> 01:16:02.600
Maybe they will, maybe we can infer or read ahead and make our own conclusion that they

01:16:02.600 --> 01:16:07.740
do understand now that the sky is up there and figure out how to break through and they

01:16:07.740 --> 01:16:09.900
all live peacefully, happy, happily ever after.

01:16:10.560 --> 01:16:14.720
Well, the other thing is though, that Neo, even though he was blinded, was able to see,

01:16:14.880 --> 01:16:16.420
you know, what was going, what was going on.

01:16:16.520 --> 01:16:20.020
He could see, you know, like the outlines, the energy patterns or whatever of all the machines.

01:16:20.560 --> 01:16:26.480
And when they went up through the clouds, uh, they didn't show Neo recognizing that there

01:16:26.480 --> 01:16:26.900
was sky.

01:16:27.020 --> 01:16:27.920
Trinity saw it.

01:16:28.320 --> 01:16:28.680
Right.

01:16:28.880 --> 01:16:32.400
And felt, you know, that maybe they, they felt the warmth, whatever, but she saw it.

01:16:32.400 --> 01:16:34.200
Uh, but Neo didn't.

01:16:34.420 --> 01:16:40.400
So if the machines have Neo and they don't know, and Neo isn't aware of that fact, uh,

01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:41.720
how are the machines going to find out?

01:16:41.820 --> 01:16:46.340
However, however, did Trinity really die?

01:16:47.220 --> 01:16:48.960
And could the machines bring her back?

01:16:49.220 --> 01:16:55.300
Obviously they could, but again, another open, you know, unanswered question.

01:16:55.460 --> 01:16:56.900
But again, I had closure.

01:16:57.100 --> 01:16:58.500
I was very happy with the movie.

01:16:58.500 --> 01:17:02.940
All in all, I gave it, I give it, you know, thumbs up, thumbs up from me.

01:17:03.240 --> 01:17:03.720
You know what?

01:17:03.820 --> 01:17:10.700
And the little side note here, um, we, I, I saw the, uh, reloaded on, you know, in a regular

01:17:10.700 --> 01:17:11.840
theater initially.

01:17:12.120 --> 01:17:15.780
And then, uh, a couple months later I saw it at IMAX, which is, by the way, is awesome

01:17:15.780 --> 01:17:16.320
at IMAX.

01:17:16.600 --> 01:17:22.680
Well, for, uh, Matrix 3, they had it available on IMAX at the same time.

01:17:22.920 --> 01:17:27.880
And every place else that, which, that had an IMAX, I'm guessing, because they didn't go

01:17:27.880 --> 01:17:31.760
to all the other cities, but every place else that had the IMAX played Matrix 3 on opening

01:17:31.760 --> 01:17:32.040
day.

01:17:32.560 --> 01:17:37.460
In Phoenix, in their ultimate wisdom, they decided not to play Matrix 3 on the IMAX.

01:17:37.720 --> 01:17:39.760
They were still playing Matrix 2 for one showing.

01:17:40.280 --> 01:17:41.440
How dumb is that?

01:17:41.740 --> 01:17:43.080
I wanted to see it on the IMAX.

01:17:43.080 --> 01:17:45.280
I went to see it at the, at the new theater.

01:17:45.360 --> 01:17:47.860
It's the largest theater in the state of Arizona, Seneca Pri, so it was great.

01:17:47.960 --> 01:17:51.320
It was big as, it wasn't as big as an IMAX, but talk about total immersion.

01:17:51.700 --> 01:17:52.000
Right.

01:17:52.080 --> 01:17:53.560
That's the place to see it the second time.

01:17:53.560 --> 01:17:57.880
Yeah, you gotta have that surround sound and the stadium and all that for these big

01:17:57.880 --> 01:17:58.260
movies.

01:17:58.400 --> 01:18:00.620
Yeah, but I mean, you know, it's a very high screen.

01:18:01.060 --> 01:18:01.260
Right.

01:18:01.340 --> 01:18:05.360
The IMAX, though, it wasn't filmed in the IMAX film and IMAX format.

01:18:05.560 --> 01:18:06.600
It was just stretched.

01:18:06.600 --> 01:18:11.000
And I didn't know if that would really add very much to it, other than being really big.

01:18:11.000 --> 01:18:11.900
Actually, it works very well.

01:18:12.000 --> 01:18:12.480
Really big.

01:18:12.480 --> 01:18:13.240
It works very well.

01:18:13.400 --> 01:18:16.800
I saw IMAX, I mean, I saw, um, Matrix 2.

01:18:16.900 --> 01:18:19.660
I also saw, um, Star Wars.

01:18:19.780 --> 01:18:21.180
This is the Star Wars Episode 2.

01:18:21.180 --> 01:18:25.660
I saw it on the original digital screen, I saw it again on an analog screen, then I

01:18:25.660 --> 01:18:26.380
saw it on IMAX.

01:18:26.820 --> 01:18:30.640
The only thing with the IMAX, some of the action that happens very close to the front of the

01:18:30.640 --> 01:18:35.100
screen, your eyes can't focus on it quick enough and you can't pan it going through.

01:18:35.100 --> 01:18:40.680
But, um, yeah, the technology for porting over a regular film to the IMAX format works

01:18:40.680 --> 01:18:42.740
very well, I think.

01:18:43.260 --> 01:18:48.840
Well, on that note, I think we, uh, we just give credit to Neo being the ultimate hacker.

01:18:48.840 --> 01:18:53.000
It started off with a movie about a hacker falling asleep at his computer following the

01:18:53.000 --> 01:18:59.460
white rabbit and we are a hacking radio show and I think we ought to, we're way over time,

01:18:59.520 --> 01:19:00.060
I'm pretty sure.

01:19:00.540 --> 01:19:05.060
And one last thought on that, you know, is that, uh, the whole thing takes place in about

01:19:05.060 --> 01:19:07.280
six months from when Neo has woken up to the end.

01:19:07.420 --> 01:19:08.840
That's roughly about six months.

01:19:08.840 --> 01:19:12.640
Yeah, you want a bad, anybody who's complaining, if you wanted a bad ending, the bad ending

01:19:12.640 --> 01:19:16.900
would have been, Neo wakes up in front of his computer and it was all a dream or a game

01:19:16.900 --> 01:19:17.640
or something like that.

01:19:17.680 --> 01:19:19.760
So, believe me, the movie could have been real bad.

01:19:20.520 --> 01:19:21.500
Keep that in mind.

01:19:21.820 --> 01:19:22.140
Absolutely.

01:19:22.140 --> 01:19:30.260
So, um, closing it up, I'm going to shout out 954-2600, my 2600 meeting, and Cy Pete,

01:19:30.380 --> 01:19:34.720
who's, uh, got that started and organized and, uh, been working on some things with him

01:19:34.720 --> 01:19:35.020
lately.

01:19:35.620 --> 01:19:39.020
Um, and shout out to Decoder, uh, for doing the show.

01:19:39.580 --> 01:19:43.900
Um, next time we have Decoder on, we're definitely going to spend more time talking about freaking.

01:19:44.620 --> 01:19:46.060
Um, we really didn't last time.

01:19:46.160 --> 01:19:48.640
So, did you have anybody you wanted a shout out to?

01:19:48.640 --> 01:19:53.420
Yeah, shout out to the whole, uh, gang out here in Phoenix with, uh, the 2600 thing and,

01:19:53.420 --> 01:19:58.480
uh, uh, I don't know, but I guess my, uh, P2, my, uh, robot dog.

01:19:59.220 --> 01:19:59.960
Oh, well, yeah.

01:20:00.060 --> 01:20:01.560
If he's listening, shout out.

01:20:02.500 --> 01:20:07.300
And, uh, any email feedback, tell us that we, tell us how bad the Matrix sucked if you

01:20:07.300 --> 01:20:07.580
want.

01:20:07.900 --> 01:20:10.000
You can send the letters at binrev.com.

01:20:10.460 --> 01:20:11.600
And that is it.

01:20:11.780 --> 01:20:15.580
Same cliched ending for every show that Rax loves.

01:20:15.580 --> 01:20:17.220
We will see you next week.

01:20:17.300 --> 01:20:18.020
Same hack time.

01:20:18.640 --> 01:20:19.280
Same hack channel.

01:20:19.420 --> 01:20:23.140
And for those people who remember it, as I always used to say on RFA, keep knowledge

01:20:23.140 --> 01:20:23.400
free.

01:20:23.600 --> 01:20:24.280
Keep knowledge free.

01:20:24.340 --> 01:20:28.620
Oh, and, damn it, I ruined it again with our, I gotta mention our closing music is, uh,

01:20:28.720 --> 01:20:29.960
scheme determined.

01:20:30.380 --> 01:20:31.960
Now, keep knowledge free.

01:20:32.680 --> 01:20:33.180
Peace out.

01:20:33.180 --> 01:20:46.640
All right, good episode, good episode, we are now off the air, and I gotta add the editing

01:20:46.640 --> 01:20:49.200
music onto this, and...

01:20:49.200 --> 01:20:52.080
But, you know, it was cool, I think you, uh, made it all the way through that swearing.

01:20:52.960 --> 01:20:57.700
I didn't, I didn't swear a single time on this whole fucking show, did you hear that?

01:20:57.860 --> 01:20:58.580
It was fucking awesome.

01:20:58.720 --> 01:21:00.020
I know, that was fucking sweet.

01:21:01.160 --> 01:21:01.520
Man.

01:21:01.520 --> 01:21:04.740
Man, and nobody knows that we can start cussing after we've stopped recording.

01:21:05.100 --> 01:21:06.060
Yeah, well, good thing, you know.

01:21:06.180 --> 01:21:06.400
Yeah.

01:21:06.940 --> 01:21:07.300
Uh-oh.

01:21:07.740 --> 01:21:08.260
Wait a minute.

01:21:09.020 --> 01:21:09.500
Oh, shit.

01:21:09.500 --> 01:21:25.820
You cannot stop me.

01:21:26.240 --> 01:21:26.580
Yeah.

01:21:27.640 --> 01:21:29.240
You cannot stop me.

01:21:29.640 --> 01:21:30.320
Excuse me.

01:21:31.180 --> 01:21:31.640
I'm not.

01:21:31.820 --> 01:21:32.660
You cannot stop me.

01:21:32.860 --> 01:21:33.340
Yeah, I know.

01:21:35.220 --> 01:21:36.220
That's time to get on my...

01:21:36.220 --> 01:21:37.560
Yeah, check it out.

01:21:37.560 --> 01:21:41.920
You cannot stop me from doing what I want to do in life, doing what I want to do with

01:21:41.920 --> 01:21:46.200
the mic, doing what is right, doing what is tight, and just know that you cannot stop

01:21:46.200 --> 01:21:47.720
me from living in my own shoes.

01:21:47.900 --> 01:21:50.820
You don't know what I'm going through, looking forward to, but what I'm showing you is what

01:21:50.820 --> 01:21:51.340
I told you, yeah.

01:21:51.340 --> 01:21:52.340
I don't give up to know why.

01:21:52.500 --> 01:21:56.300
The rap scene isn't happy with me rapping, but the sad thing is that I ain't gotta go watch

01:21:56.300 --> 01:21:58.420
a gun to blow the whole spot, but it's because I'm so hot.

01:21:58.620 --> 01:21:59.300
I'm the man of the best.

01:21:59.420 --> 01:22:00.220
You can't handle the threat.

01:22:00.360 --> 01:22:01.540
Me to you is like, yeah, he's the mess.

01:22:01.600 --> 01:22:02.620
Man's scheme is the best.

01:22:02.920 --> 01:22:03.280
Chill.

01:22:03.600 --> 01:22:04.780
I'm the biggest fan that I got.

01:22:04.880 --> 01:22:06.600
You cannot support more than I support myself.

01:22:06.600 --> 01:22:07.920
Then all of them fail, all of them fail.

01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:11.260
But it's how that you get up, how that you set up, your next move, how you talk to the

01:22:11.260 --> 01:22:14.620
next dude that makes you, the person at your walk, now you are, ready to live your life,

01:22:14.700 --> 01:22:15.160
win the play.

01:22:15.280 --> 01:22:19.160
By the way, by the way, this is the kind of way to let you know that I did things my way.

01:22:19.340 --> 01:22:23.040
You cannot stop me from doing what I want to do in life, doing what I want to do with

01:22:23.040 --> 01:22:27.320
the mic, doing what is right, doing what is tight, and just know that you cannot stop

01:22:27.320 --> 01:22:28.720
me from living in my own shoes.

01:22:28.780 --> 01:22:32.260
You don't know what I'm going through, looking forward to you, but what I'm showing you is what I told

01:22:32.260 --> 01:22:32.660
you, yeah.

01:22:32.660 --> 01:22:35.420
So I'm willing to evolve with the chords when I'm getting involved, yeah, I'm predicting

01:22:35.420 --> 01:22:38.940
it's all I told you, better leave me alone, better leave it and go, better dream you can

01:22:38.940 --> 01:22:41.100
float, but you know, you ain't even really close, man.

01:22:41.320 --> 01:22:45.560
You getting home with your own fuck, man, only revoking a man that can't be done, so why?

01:22:45.700 --> 01:22:49.000
Cause the focus, man, determined it will, even if it hurts to feel, it hurts to build the

01:22:49.000 --> 01:22:52.560
feeling, still I keep going on the path that I chose, happy to know, that's what I wrote

01:22:52.560 --> 01:22:56.200
to the plateau, that I'm standing on, the one that I get abandoned on, it's your hand that's

01:22:56.200 --> 01:22:59.100
on, take your brains to fail and they cancel them all, put your hands on the call,

01:22:59.100 --> 01:23:03.480
it goes like this, you cannot stop me from doing what I want to do with life, doing

01:23:03.480 --> 01:23:06.720
what I want to do with the mic, doing what is right, doing what is tight, and just know

01:23:06.720 --> 01:23:11.000
that you cannot stop me from living in my own shoe, uh, you don't know what I'm going

01:23:11.000 --> 01:23:13.580
to, looking forward to, but what I'm showing you is what I told you, yeah.

01:23:13.580 --> 01:23:16.500
And now I told y'all once, and I'll tell you again, can anyone vent without hesitating

01:23:16.500 --> 01:23:20.080
offense, without further precaution, cause so often I'm off the course because someone

01:23:20.080 --> 01:23:24.780
is talking, now I need to alter this, alter that, alter this, alter that, nah, I'ma keep

01:23:24.780 --> 01:23:29.160
being my individual self, doing what is dealt, whenever I fail, cause I cover it up, smell

01:23:29.160 --> 01:23:33.160
it up, nothing other than what, scheming, hand gleaming, cause I'm really, a visual scenery,

01:23:33.160 --> 01:23:37.160
of whatever MCB, so that, should be determined to do what you do, but if you're losing to lose,

01:23:37.160 --> 01:23:41.160
and pick it up, listen up, and just know that, if you've been enough, doing enough to be able

01:23:41.160 --> 01:23:45.160
to say, you cannot stop me, from doing what I want to do with life, doing what I want to

01:23:45.160 --> 01:23:49.660
do with the mic, doing what is right, doing what is tight, and just know that, you cannot stop

01:23:49.660 --> 01:23:51.840
me, cause I'm living in my own shoes, you don't know what I'm going through, looking

01:23:51.840 --> 01:24:00.980
forward to, but what I'm showing you's when I told you that, you cannot stop me, cause

01:24:00.980 --> 01:24:08.680
I'm a do what I want to do with life, doing what I want to do with the mic, doing what

01:24:08.680 --> 01:24:15.920
is right, doing what is tight, and just know that, you cannot stop me, cause I'm going

01:24:15.920 --> 01:24:17.500
You gotta understand that

01:24:17.500 --> 01:24:20.340
I'm determined if you're what I do, man

01:24:20.340 --> 01:24:22.720
And I ain't trippin' off it

01:24:22.720 --> 01:24:24.960
I'm just doin' me

01:24:24.960 --> 01:24:27.560
You know what I'm sayin'?

01:24:27.560 --> 01:24:28.480
I know you feel me

01:24:28.480 --> 01:24:30.220
Steady on, man

01:24:30.220 --> 01:24:30.860
Do your thing

01:24:30.860 --> 01:24:32.880
And just remember one thing

01:24:32.880 --> 01:24:33.540
Throughout all that

01:24:33.540 --> 01:24:34.380
Do yours

01:24:34.380 --> 01:24:37.080
But you cannot stop me

01:24:37.080 --> 01:24:37.800
Yeah