WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:09.920 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers, to the hackers and the crackers. 00:10.360 --> 00:16.020 I see in binary, I speak source code, step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you 00:16.020 --> 00:21.280 in a fag pose, in your digital stance, getting firewalled ho, cause I'm riding the net in 00:21.280 --> 00:27.500 my six foe, I was a dick with my 56, now with my cable I'm able to get that stable, on the 00:27.500 --> 00:32.960 out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo, on the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero, 00:33.180 --> 00:37.940 in a flash I'll school you on burning dream packs, you need some ISOs, let me through my 00:37.940 --> 00:43.340 hard drive rifle, our exchange you could never stifle, in a digital hug, you just caught the 00:43.340 --> 00:49.740 love bug, I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z, your CG, it's all gonna 00:49.740 --> 00:54.200 be free, whether we take it by force or we take it nicely, you feel that rattling your 00:54.200 --> 00:58.640 bones, when I tell you we just hacked out Jones, and NASDAQ, leave your fight on your 00:58.640 --> 01:03.980 back, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack, cause I am he who loves to hack and crack. 01:04.420 --> 01:11.660 This is dedicated to the hackers and the crackers, serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIPs, 01:11.660 --> 01:14.680 SIS, this is dedicated to the hackers and the crack. 01:15.020 --> 01:21.740 Alright, hello everybody, welcome to Binary Revolution Radio, episode 26, coming at ya, 01:21.740 --> 01:30.500 Tuesday, December 30th, to double aught trace, so this is the last episode for the year 2003. 01:31.560 --> 01:38.300 Next week, we'll see on the flip side, 2004, but in the meantime, during this holiday break, 01:38.360 --> 01:42.000 while we've got a little time off, we have a very special co-host. 01:42.000 --> 01:43.700 Oh, what year is it? 01:43.860 --> 01:49.220 Oh man, that's when I fell asleep, shit, it was like, this is like all crazy, there's 01:49.220 --> 01:51.620 like PDs and stuff, is there flying cars yet? 01:52.360 --> 01:53.640 There might be flying cars. 01:54.120 --> 01:58.080 Well, there were flying cars in the Hulk movie, which sucked by the way, but no, we still don't 01:58.080 --> 01:59.060 have any flying cars. 01:59.340 --> 02:00.640 Shit, I'm gonna go back to sleep. 02:00.760 --> 02:01.820 We have wireless internet. 02:02.540 --> 02:03.640 Oh, okay, I'll stay around. 02:03.780 --> 02:04.580 Alright, that's good. 02:04.580 --> 02:10.160 Um, and in case people don't recognize your voice, maybe new listeners that weren't around 02:10.160 --> 02:10.740 in the beginning. 02:11.220 --> 02:15.320 Yeah, you know, they haven't been staying true, they just kind of like the fad listeners, they 02:15.320 --> 02:16.480 just like, oh, this is cool. 02:16.680 --> 02:21.080 Well, maybe they just didn't quite pick up on us until later on in the series, later on 02:21.080 --> 02:26.820 more recently, and they haven't gone back and listened to the past episode starring the 02:26.820 --> 02:30.260 voice you hear, the one, the only, well, not the only, but... 02:30.260 --> 02:40.260 Oh, yeah, well, I've come up with, I've made a lot of the trademark things. 02:40.580 --> 02:43.540 We gotta let, we gotta, we gotta start using that one again more often. 02:43.540 --> 02:46.440 We kind of finally let that fall off because we've beaten that into the ground. 02:46.980 --> 02:47.300 Yeah. 02:48.200 --> 02:49.840 Oh, just like the word... 02:49.840 --> 02:53.900 You pimp it off my, my, my segue usage? 02:54.700 --> 02:57.460 I still do occasionally, I don't think anybody else gets it. 02:57.580 --> 02:59.400 I don't think anybody else is catching that reference. 02:59.400 --> 03:02.400 But every time I get a chance to, yeah, I'll give a little segue shout. 03:02.700 --> 03:08.140 I actually saw one, by the way, I saw one in my mall, the mall, well, not my mall, the 03:08.140 --> 03:14.300 mall near where I work, I should say, which is in a very ritzy part of town, if you want 03:14.300 --> 03:15.480 to say, is that a good word? 03:15.880 --> 03:17.320 It's over in the rich bitch neighborhood. 03:18.240 --> 03:20.580 All right, that's not a bad word, that's a female dog, I can say that one. 03:21.140 --> 03:21.560 There you go. 03:21.600 --> 03:23.160 That doesn't fall under the bad words limit. 03:23.820 --> 03:25.600 It's over in the rich person neighborhood. 03:25.600 --> 03:32.640 And, uh, I saw some old lady, she must have been, I don't know, 60 years old, spinning 03:32.640 --> 03:33.640 through the mall on a segue. 03:33.760 --> 03:37.380 She was just like window shopping, like driving up to each window and just looking in the window. 03:38.020 --> 03:38.480 Oh, that's... 03:38.480 --> 03:39.960 Like in the mall with a segue. 03:40.540 --> 03:42.340 It's laziness to an extreme. 03:42.340 --> 03:43.300 Segway! 03:44.200 --> 03:44.480 Segway! 03:45.240 --> 03:48.500 Yeah, I gave her a little shout, but she didn't quite, yeah, she didn't even look. 03:48.580 --> 03:50.420 She was just too... 03:50.420 --> 03:52.660 She was up on her segue with her nose in the air. 03:53.320 --> 03:54.440 Now, I don't get this, though. 03:54.440 --> 03:59.480 How can they allow a segue in the mall, but you can't have skateboards or skates or anything, 03:59.620 --> 04:01.480 rollerblades or like, anything like that? 04:01.900 --> 04:02.880 See, that's too energetic. 04:04.380 --> 04:05.160 Because, you know what I mean? 04:06.080 --> 04:09.180 You probably hurt yourself more on a segue, but, you know, just a skateboard. 04:09.180 --> 04:11.640 Well, who's more dangerous? 04:12.480 --> 04:16.940 Somebody who rides a skateboard all the time and is good at it and has balance and practices 04:16.940 --> 04:22.100 all the time, or a 60-year-old lady on a segue device that's been proven to be unstable? 04:22.860 --> 04:23.480 Yeah, well... 04:23.480 --> 04:24.340 I'll take my chances. 04:25.500 --> 04:25.740 Hmm? 04:25.900 --> 04:27.580 Well, she's right next to a stairwell. 04:27.680 --> 04:28.180 She's gone. 04:28.460 --> 04:29.420 Oh, man. 04:29.540 --> 04:31.900 And then they'll want to sue the mall over it, probably. 04:31.980 --> 04:32.300 Oh, yeah. 04:32.340 --> 04:32.680 There you go. 04:33.840 --> 04:34.140 Oh. 04:35.360 --> 04:37.640 Anyway, how are you going to ride a segue through the mall? 04:37.640 --> 04:41.180 That is just the ultimate richy-rich addict. 04:41.300 --> 04:41.580 Ugh. 04:42.540 --> 04:44.340 Well, then again, where else are you going to ride a segue? 04:44.700 --> 04:45.160 That's true. 04:45.740 --> 04:47.460 I mean, that's like the only legal place, probably. 04:48.020 --> 04:48.300 Hmm. 04:49.060 --> 04:53.380 Well, I'm sure that if it starts to become popular or something, people actually start 04:53.380 --> 04:54.200 doing it, they'll ban it. 04:54.660 --> 04:56.300 Yeah, they'll ban everything that's good. 04:56.320 --> 04:57.900 Yeah, they'll ban it along with this. 04:57.960 --> 05:00.460 No skateboards, no rollerblades, no segues. 05:01.960 --> 05:05.580 Pretty soon it's going to be so you can't run through them all naked anymore, you know? 05:05.940 --> 05:08.720 Oh, yeah, well, shit, man, that was some good times. 05:08.800 --> 05:12.920 Yeah, nude mall walking sport's going to just drop off the face of the planet. 05:14.780 --> 05:15.760 All right, let's do a show. 05:15.900 --> 05:16.500 I mean, come on. 05:16.500 --> 05:16.640 A show? 05:16.760 --> 05:18.580 Oh, yeah, we take, oh, my gosh, we're taping. 05:19.020 --> 05:19.300 Yeah. 05:20.320 --> 05:21.200 Oh, man. 05:21.340 --> 05:24.500 Actually, joking aside, we have a lot of stuff to cover today. 05:24.500 --> 05:30.260 Obviously, I'm going to say again, mute's back on the show, off for vacation, so you've 05:30.260 --> 05:33.500 got some time to do a lot of this stuff, so it's good to have you back on the show. 05:34.800 --> 05:38.200 Honestly, this is, what, the first time since, what, episode four or five? 05:38.540 --> 05:39.160 Yeah, yeah. 05:39.160 --> 05:39.320 Three? 05:39.320 --> 05:39.920 Something like that. 05:40.200 --> 05:42.320 Long time, long time. 05:42.480 --> 05:44.320 So don't be a stranger, man. 05:44.340 --> 05:44.960 Don't be a stranger. 05:45.380 --> 05:45.920 I'll be back. 05:45.920 --> 05:49.160 Now, I have one email that I wanted to talk about. 05:49.480 --> 05:54.120 Somebody, they didn't give a handle, their real name, I presume their real name was in 05:54.120 --> 06:01.240 the email, so I'm not going to mention that, but they sent me an email notifying me of a 06:01.240 --> 06:08.520 Linux distribution called FLAK, P-H-L-A-K, FLAK, which stands for Professional Hackers Linux 06:08.520 --> 06:09.680 Assault Kit. 06:09.680 --> 06:18.120 It's a modular live security Linux distribution, live, of course, meaning bootable from the 06:18.120 --> 06:18.380 CD. 06:18.700 --> 06:21.160 There's no installation, just like Knopfix or Morphix. 06:22.000 --> 06:23.840 Did you just hang up on me in the middle? 06:24.060 --> 06:29.140 I'm going to keep on going, because I'm sure he'll call back, but it's based on Morphix, 06:29.200 --> 06:35.060 which is a bootable distribution, and FLAK is based on Morphix to begin with. 06:36.580 --> 06:37.580 Mute hotline. 06:37.580 --> 06:40.140 Dude, this Vonage is not good. 06:40.300 --> 06:41.220 All right, keep rolling. 06:41.460 --> 06:44.580 See, Mute, for the listeners, we're not stopping, we're going through with this. 06:44.900 --> 06:47.460 Mute is on his Vonage phone, and... 06:47.460 --> 06:50.220 I'm using the landline now, this is just bullshit. 06:50.420 --> 06:52.800 Yeah, that's going to get annoying. 06:52.880 --> 06:57.260 How many times, let's play a game early in the show, go ahead and IRC, take bets on how 06:57.260 --> 06:59.320 many times you think Mute's going to drop during the show. 07:00.280 --> 07:05.440 That's one so far, and actually, we had to stop two or three times earlier, so one that 07:05.440 --> 07:05.860 counts. 07:05.860 --> 07:11.680 But anyway, I was continuing on for the listeners about FLAK, I don't know exactly when it dropped 07:11.680 --> 07:15.760 off, but it's based on Morphix, it's a live bootable distro like Nophix or anything else, 07:15.800 --> 07:21.480 it's based on Morphix, Morphix, excuse me, and it comes with a lot of security tools and 07:21.480 --> 07:22.480 stuff built into it. 07:22.480 --> 07:28.080 So I went to the website, did some initial investigation on it, and it really looks interesting. 07:28.180 --> 07:29.320 It looks like it could be impressive. 07:29.540 --> 07:33.340 It's another distro that's in its infancy. 07:33.480 --> 07:35.520 It's not really fully developed or anything yet. 07:35.520 --> 07:40.640 So, you know, I'm sure the longer it sticks around and the longer, you know, the longer 07:40.640 --> 07:42.800 they work on it, the more of it's going to evolve. 07:43.340 --> 07:48.580 If anybody actually has some experience using it, feel free to email and let us know, radio 07:48.580 --> 07:54.880 at binrev.com, and maybe I'll get Bland or resonant distro whore to check it out for us in the 07:54.880 --> 07:59.940 meantime, or maybe I'll throw it on a box and see what I can come up with, but time lately 07:59.940 --> 08:03.260 has not been a luxury I've been able to afford. 08:03.260 --> 08:10.160 However, into our personal stories for the week, I did get time to do something I've been 08:10.160 --> 08:13.220 complaining about for a few episodes now. 08:13.340 --> 08:23.300 If you remember back on episode 23, 24, how incredibly angry I was at AIM forcing video, 08:23.480 --> 08:26.880 streaming video and music, some movie trailer built into the AIM client. 08:27.360 --> 08:28.840 I finally had enough of it. 08:28.840 --> 08:31.540 I booted it up this past weekend. 08:31.540 --> 08:37.800 Not only did I get streaming video, streaming movie, but I also got a freaking pop-up ad. 08:37.880 --> 08:42.220 It popped up an IE window on me for the movie that was playing. 08:43.340 --> 08:43.900 That's it. 08:44.000 --> 08:44.640 That's ridiculous. 08:44.780 --> 08:45.480 That's too much. 08:46.140 --> 08:46.360 I know. 08:46.400 --> 08:47.500 It makes me sick too, Mute. 08:47.760 --> 08:48.500 Does it make you sick? 08:48.540 --> 08:51.340 Because it sounds like, you know, it's just making you sick. 08:51.500 --> 08:52.080 Yeah, it's just bad. 08:52.100 --> 08:52.860 It's just bad in here. 08:53.080 --> 08:53.300 Ugh. 08:53.960 --> 08:54.940 I can't... 08:54.940 --> 08:57.620 That's so evil. 08:57.900 --> 09:00.520 Yeah, well, I mean, they're just going to turn people away. 09:01.540 --> 09:07.800 I'm so exercising so much self-control right now, I can't even... 09:07.800 --> 09:09.500 All I can say is burn in hell AOL. 09:09.660 --> 09:10.060 I find... 09:10.060 --> 09:10.440 I'm done. 09:10.700 --> 09:11.600 I'm done with it. 09:11.660 --> 09:12.380 I installed Trillion. 09:13.080 --> 09:18.600 Even though I got tired of Trillion, had some problems with it in the past that I gave up on it and went back to the originals, 09:18.740 --> 09:20.220 I'm going back to Trillion now. 09:20.300 --> 09:22.140 I am not, not going to... 09:22.140 --> 09:24.960 I don't need any more freaking pop-ups shoved on me. 09:25.820 --> 09:27.340 I mean, that's ridiculous. 09:27.340 --> 09:35.960 So, I am using Trillion again at home, and as soon as I get some time at work, I probably will do the same thing there. 09:36.900 --> 09:41.140 So, I recommend everybody do the same thing. 09:41.960 --> 09:43.600 Show AOL that they don't... 09:43.600 --> 09:48.600 They think they have this install base, and these people get into their head, 09:48.600 --> 09:52.580 we have X million install base of this, so we can do what we want to them. 09:52.640 --> 09:53.720 They're not going anywhere. 09:54.080 --> 09:54.560 Guess what? 09:54.800 --> 09:55.820 We will go somewhere. 09:55.940 --> 09:57.080 I'll go somewhere anyway. 09:57.940 --> 10:00.880 I wonder how many other people are going to get so mad and so many pop-ups, 10:01.680 --> 10:03.700 especially unattended pop-ups like that. 10:03.800 --> 10:07.180 People leave their instant messengers up and walk off to another room or something, 10:07.700 --> 10:10.220 and now they're going to come back and find pop-ups waiting for them? 10:10.940 --> 10:13.320 That's the most horrible feeling. 10:15.600 --> 10:17.240 Anyway, I installed Trillion. 10:17.440 --> 10:18.200 I'm done with them. 10:18.760 --> 10:19.340 I'm done with them. 10:19.400 --> 10:20.160 They can burn in hell. 10:20.440 --> 10:21.760 I hate them. 10:23.160 --> 10:26.860 Other than that, also over the holiday, I had some time as well, 10:27.420 --> 10:34.720 and I finally, finally, and Mute even asked me this earlier on the phone today when we were just chatting. 10:35.560 --> 10:38.060 Is there still a Binary Revolution magazine? 10:38.780 --> 10:39.860 Well, yes, there is. 10:39.860 --> 10:41.740 It's just coming along slowly. 10:41.860 --> 10:44.560 We say on the show all the time about how far behind it is. 10:45.020 --> 10:46.420 Well, I have good news for a change. 10:46.500 --> 10:50.080 I finally finished editing the 1.3 articles. 10:50.720 --> 10:53.500 We are going to begin the layout process. 10:53.620 --> 10:54.140 It's starting. 10:54.700 --> 10:55.720 It may have started. 10:55.740 --> 11:00.780 I haven't talked to Logan in a couple days, but we've already bounced off some of the layout ideas. 11:00.960 --> 11:04.520 It's just a matter of putting it together, which is no easy task, mind you, 11:04.540 --> 11:05.840 so it's still a little ways off. 11:05.840 --> 11:10.700 But, yes, 1.3 is in production, and it's coming along finally. 11:10.700 --> 11:19.820 I mean, people, we've said this all along, and I hope people understand that this is, you know, a bunch of guys doing this. 11:19.920 --> 11:20.900 We're working on this together. 11:21.020 --> 11:26.840 Everybody has a part to do, but everybody in DDP has a full-time job or they go to school all day. 11:26.840 --> 11:31.240 I mean, we said earlier you haven't been on the show since, like, episode 4 or 5 or 6. 11:31.520 --> 11:33.760 Well, it's because there are more important things. 11:33.920 --> 11:37.820 I have to, you know, really, real life is more important than this magazine. 11:37.960 --> 11:41.820 I love the magazine, and we're going to try to get it out quarterly or as best we can, 11:42.760 --> 11:46.160 but this is not our profession, so to speak. 11:46.220 --> 11:47.700 We're not making any money, that's for sure. 11:48.840 --> 11:52.540 So hope that everybody can understand that and deal with it a little bit. 11:52.600 --> 11:53.540 We are getting it out. 11:54.120 --> 11:55.340 It'll be out soon. 11:55.340 --> 11:59.760 You can already start submitting articles for the next one so that we won't be behind on the next one. 11:59.820 --> 12:03.360 If you've got some article ideas or you've got some articles you want to submit, 12:03.500 --> 12:05.660 you can send those to articles at binrev.com. 12:05.740 --> 12:07.040 We'll go ahead and start taking them now. 12:07.120 --> 12:07.980 Start taking them early. 12:08.920 --> 12:12.960 And I know, Mute, you and I were talking about you putting something in. 12:13.860 --> 12:17.160 So anybody who wants to send it in, go ahead and start now. 12:18.280 --> 12:24.320 And I guess that's what I guess I probably should just come out and officially announce that we can't. 12:24.320 --> 12:27.860 We're not, the quarterly is not working out too well. 12:28.480 --> 12:30.840 We knew that from the beginning we weren't going to be quarterly. 12:31.020 --> 12:34.340 Yeah, we said we were going to try, and I really thought we could. 12:34.420 --> 12:38.280 I really did, but I guess I said, let's be realistic. 12:38.420 --> 12:44.280 We all work, quarterly is our goal, but officially we're just going to call it periodically. 12:44.280 --> 12:47.880 If we were an e-zine, it would be easy. 12:48.660 --> 12:50.240 That's the whole point of an e-zine. 12:50.760 --> 12:52.060 We're not trying to be easy. 12:52.740 --> 12:59.160 We're trying to be thoughtful and, I mean, good. 12:59.320 --> 13:01.320 I mean, we want to step up to the next level. 13:01.320 --> 13:02.320 Right. 13:02.320 --> 13:08.880 And since we can't have, we can't make money, we can't make enough money to not work at the magazine, 13:09.280 --> 13:13.740 we have to do other things and then put the magazine in the second position. 13:14.000 --> 13:16.320 Yes, that is the truth. 13:16.740 --> 13:20.100 So, I mean, when you get it, you're like, damn, this is good stuff. 13:20.540 --> 13:26.360 Well, yeah, but if we had another million people saying that it was, damn, this is good stuff, 13:26.360 --> 13:29.020 then, yes, we could focus on it, but we can't. 13:29.560 --> 13:33.640 Well, and hopefully if it continues to grow, which is, you know, we're growing. 13:33.860 --> 13:38.100 There are more people, more listeners to the radio show, more people getting the magazine each day. 13:38.760 --> 13:42.760 But until it gets to a point where it's going to be able to take care of itself somewhat, 13:43.620 --> 13:48.380 where we can afford to pay people and hire people to help out and get the magazine off the ground, 13:48.740 --> 13:49.980 that's still a good ways off. 13:50.040 --> 13:54.340 Right now it's still a basement project done by some guys in their free time. 13:56.360 --> 14:00.080 And we're just going to have to do the best we can and, like I said, hope people understand. 14:00.220 --> 14:04.600 So we are efficiently, periodically from now on, we're going to get it out as often as we can. 14:05.920 --> 14:07.240 Hey, maybe we'll make it quarterly. 14:07.360 --> 14:08.840 Maybe we'll get it on the ball. 14:09.140 --> 14:12.840 But, yeah, it's tough. 14:13.180 --> 14:13.660 It's tough. 14:14.660 --> 14:22.100 Articles, finding good articles, you know, editing through and picking out stuff that makes the cut, 14:22.100 --> 14:23.240 for lack of a better term. 14:23.240 --> 14:26.700 You know, we've got to get more people writing and submitting articles to us. 14:26.760 --> 14:29.080 I know there's a lot of e-zines popping up out there. 14:29.180 --> 14:31.540 There's a lot of other printed magazines coming around. 14:34.640 --> 14:39.440 There's not enough writers out there to get all the good information. 14:39.660 --> 14:44.900 I mean, even 2600 Magazine, a lot of people have said that the quality of some of their writing has gone down. 14:44.900 --> 14:51.320 We won't go into that on the air, but, you know, everybody's having problems right now. 14:51.420 --> 14:52.740 So, I don't know. 14:52.820 --> 14:54.900 I hope the hacking community is not dwindling. 14:55.680 --> 14:56.440 Is that the case? 14:56.700 --> 14:56.940 No. 14:57.640 --> 14:59.200 I really still think it's growing. 14:59.340 --> 15:03.060 I've said before, the phreak community, the hacking community, is kind of in a renaissance period, I thought. 15:03.280 --> 15:03.580 Yeah. 15:03.820 --> 15:05.480 So, hopefully they're still out there. 15:05.960 --> 15:09.500 Anyway, off that soapbox, I didn't mean to turn it into that. 15:09.500 --> 15:13.060 It was basically a, yes, we're late again, sorry about that, bear with us. 15:13.220 --> 15:14.340 That's the short version. 15:16.480 --> 15:21.720 Now, as far as soapboxes, you, I don't know if you wanted to talk about this on the show. 15:21.800 --> 15:23.060 We were talking earlier about this. 15:25.860 --> 15:28.460 Well, did you, I'll leave it up to you then. 15:28.540 --> 15:30.000 Did you have something you wanted to talk about? 15:30.000 --> 15:30.660 Yes, I do. 15:31.400 --> 15:33.600 I've been thinking about this for a while now. 15:34.620 --> 15:37.080 I don't know if a lot of you other people have been thinking about it. 15:37.480 --> 15:38.240 Maybe you have. 15:38.240 --> 15:40.460 Maybe you're the perpetrator of it. 15:41.060 --> 15:41.920 This is for everyone. 15:42.420 --> 15:43.380 No individual. 15:43.600 --> 15:46.780 Oh, no individual will be mentioned in this. 15:46.880 --> 15:48.780 It will be an open discussion. 15:49.140 --> 15:52.200 Well, not open discussion, but I'll say it and I'll leave it be. 15:52.360 --> 15:58.720 And you can, I'd love to hear your emails, positive, negative, neutral, whatever, at mute at oldskoolphreak.com. 15:59.660 --> 16:03.280 So, yeah, you can bash or lob or whatever there. 16:03.280 --> 16:12.380 What I want to say is something that I've seen lately when I pop on the board down then over my hiatus. 16:13.100 --> 16:16.860 It seems that there's a little hypocrisy going on. 16:17.860 --> 16:20.100 Let me go jump back a few months. 16:20.100 --> 16:23.060 Some, just think about this, okay. 16:23.860 --> 16:30.940 Us as hackers, no, don't get me wrong, we're good people, but the media doesn't like that. 16:31.160 --> 16:33.120 They don't like to talk about the good stuff. 16:33.640 --> 16:35.080 Hackers don't do anything good. 16:35.080 --> 16:37.860 Oh, see, this is what we're talking about. 16:38.660 --> 16:41.420 The media likes just, like, the bad thing side. 16:41.920 --> 16:43.020 That's what's entertaining. 16:44.020 --> 16:47.060 News is not important. 16:47.420 --> 16:50.020 If it's truthful, it's important if it sells. 16:51.980 --> 16:54.380 So something usually bad sells. 16:55.460 --> 16:58.500 So, take for hackers, for instance, what do they do? 16:59.300 --> 17:04.060 Everyone thinks a hacker does something bad, and some do. 17:04.860 --> 17:05.720 But they're not hackers. 17:05.840 --> 17:06.400 They're criminals. 17:07.160 --> 17:09.320 As we've said time and time over, so I'm not going to repeat that. 17:10.340 --> 17:13.540 So, yeah, I mean, everyone understands that, and I think, Stank, everyone, 17:14.260 --> 17:17.480 everyone that I know that posts in the board knows this. 17:17.860 --> 17:18.140 Right. 17:18.140 --> 17:21.960 And is very strongly against this, and, you know, try to change it, but, you know, that'll never happen. 17:22.460 --> 17:28.680 What I hate more than that is how we treat each other in the community. 17:29.240 --> 17:33.740 Now, Stank, could you enlighten us with a quote from the hacker's manifesto? 17:34.840 --> 17:37.940 Um, well, which quote from the hacker's? 17:37.940 --> 17:45.100 It starts by, I think it was, uh, where we, it's at the end of what he says, like, something about we are criminals, we are not criminals. 17:45.940 --> 17:46.960 Uh, we exist. 17:46.980 --> 17:47.500 And then it says something next. 17:47.580 --> 17:48.500 There's, like, three points. 17:48.860 --> 17:54.600 Well, if you're going, if you're going where I think you're going here, I think the line that you're referring to is, 17:54.680 --> 17:59.820 we exist without skin color, without nationality, without religious bias. 18:00.240 --> 18:01.600 Yeah, that's what I want to bring up. 18:01.600 --> 18:08.500 Now, that's kind of like, uh, that's insane, like, uh, like, you know, equal opportunity for employers. 18:08.640 --> 18:10.040 You know, we don't care who you are. 18:10.300 --> 18:12.240 As long as you can do the job, we'll probably hire you. 18:12.460 --> 18:13.460 That's all that minority. 18:13.460 --> 18:19.020 I mean, that's the whole thing with, we've got to treat everyone equally or it's, there's going to be, like, civil lawsuits everywhere. 18:19.020 --> 18:27.440 So, um, but within the community, I see a lot of hostility, like, uh, uh, let me take, for instance, when someone brought up religion on the board. 18:27.600 --> 18:28.840 Always a bad idea. 18:29.040 --> 18:31.840 Always a bad idea because you piss so many people off. 18:31.960 --> 18:33.080 Politics and religion. 18:33.300 --> 18:35.440 Politics, religion, sexuality, whatever. 18:36.520 --> 18:40.020 Just, you know, don't talk about that on a board that's meant for that. 18:40.120 --> 18:40.600 Now, there is an opportunity. 18:40.600 --> 18:41.460 No, no, wait, whoa, whoa. 18:41.700 --> 18:42.040 Wait a minute. 18:42.080 --> 18:43.060 No, I disagree with that. 18:43.280 --> 18:45.840 I don't have, there's nothing wrong with talking about that. 18:45.920 --> 18:46.880 Yeah, okay, yeah, you're right. 18:46.880 --> 18:48.180 There's nothing wrong with talking about it. 18:48.180 --> 18:56.840 But when you make uneducated assumptions, or just say it because you want to, I don't like. 18:57.260 --> 19:14.640 Well, I, I agree, I think, see, here's, here's the thing, I, I agree with you, but I think, I like to think anyway, that hackers are, at least ideally, what you would imagine you would, are supposed to be. 19:14.640 --> 19:26.660 See, we've, like you said earlier, we've, we've been persecuted, for lack of a better word, I don't want to, we've been put down and treated one way by the media and been slanted and we've been painted in a bad light. 19:26.660 --> 19:44.160 You would think that a hacker of all people would be the most open-minded people in the world because we know what it's like to be on the receiving end of being put down and being assaulted, being painted to be the bad guys and evil and all that kind of stuff. 19:44.160 --> 19:51.920 You would think that hackers would be the most open-minded people in the world, but you're saying you don't always see that. 19:51.920 --> 20:10.120 I don't, I mean, I see that when someone says, oh, what's, everyone's religion on the board, and then, you know, some people say whatever, and they say this or that and everything, and then someone comes on and says, oh, no, that's completely crap, that's all, that, that religion, there's nothing, there's nothing about it, it's all made up. 20:10.120 --> 20:22.020 And that's what I don't like, because people, I'm like, what are you doing? You're turning around, complaining that you're not being treated fairly on the news, but then you come pull 180 and make fun of this guy. 20:22.580 --> 20:38.960 Yeah, there's some hypocrisy that, yeah, they don't, they don't like it when someone talks about how bad hackers are or how bad whatever, yet they will come on and bash someone because of their religion or bash their religion in general. 20:38.960 --> 20:39.760 Yeah. 20:40.040 --> 20:50.780 Is that, yeah, that, that's a little, um, a little unnerving, I agree, a little hypocrisy going on there, hypocritic attitude, hypocritic attitude. 20:51.280 --> 20:51.520 Yeah. 20:52.420 --> 20:58.620 You know, whatever, I mean, it is off-topic, you know, I can't completely blame them, you know, they're posting at least in the right section. 20:58.620 --> 21:02.520 Right, I was going to say that, it's in off-topic, usually, and if not, we move it there. 21:02.780 --> 21:02.960 Yeah. 21:03.180 --> 21:04.000 So there's nothing... 21:04.000 --> 21:08.120 Okay, it's fine, it's your free choice to speak like that, but, you know, 21:08.120 --> 21:18.240 not to be, not to be hypocritical myself, but you can't just say whatever you want, because, I mean, if you say something, I mean, you've got to be educated. 21:19.000 --> 21:23.360 If you say just whatever you want, it's probably wrong and someone's going to show you up on it. 21:23.360 --> 21:27.540 Well, they can, you can say whatever you want. 21:28.540 --> 21:32.520 I'm very, you know, I don't edit posts unless there's some personal attacks or something. 21:32.580 --> 21:42.400 For the most part, people are free to speak their mind, but the thing is, if you speak your mind and your mind isn't much to brag about, then people are going to see that. 21:42.520 --> 21:42.860 Yeah, exactly. 21:42.860 --> 22:02.260 And when you make a blind accusation or insult or, you know, talk about anybody who believes this is a bunch of idiots, well, okay, what about the people who believe hackers are good guys, hackers are bad guys, you get painted in these different lights, anybody who believes blah, blah, blah, it's very close-minded and one-sided. 22:02.260 --> 22:08.980 You know, if you don't agree with someone's religion, you can say, I don't agree with that, I think something else, I believe something differently. 22:09.760 --> 22:14.600 And even if you wanted to say, this is why I believe this, this is why I believe that, that wouldn't bother me. 22:15.280 --> 22:16.940 I mean, that wouldn't bother you, would it? 22:17.300 --> 22:18.880 No, because, I mean, that's... 22:18.880 --> 22:20.160 I think specific... 22:20.160 --> 22:20.940 I mean, that's constructive. 22:21.320 --> 22:22.640 Yeah, I think somebody... 22:22.640 --> 22:28.160 I'm not sure exactly what post it was, and we're not going to go, like I said, mention names, but... 22:28.160 --> 22:33.060 Yeah, it did start to get kind of insulting there about anybody who believes this is an idiot. 22:33.380 --> 22:34.980 How can you possibly believe that? 22:35.040 --> 22:35.620 Are you stupid? 22:35.740 --> 22:36.660 Those kind of things. 22:37.260 --> 22:40.620 Yeah, I saw some stuff like that going on, and I stayed out of it, like I said. 22:40.620 --> 22:49.680 My attitude is I stand back, and I see and watch who posts that kind of stuff, and I think, you know, they drop a notch in my eyes because they're not open-minded. 22:49.820 --> 22:55.320 They're not willing to be understanding and accepting of other people and the differences. 22:55.320 --> 22:58.600 And it's the differences of people that makes the world go around. 22:58.800 --> 23:02.400 Yeah, I don't want everyone to think, oh, they're the religious zealots. 23:02.520 --> 23:03.800 I mean, what are they doing? 23:03.900 --> 23:07.920 No, this is, like, just a general thing, and this is, like, the one thing I see on the boards. 23:08.640 --> 23:09.580 That's, like, the only thing. 23:09.660 --> 23:10.900 I mean, there's maybe other stuff. 23:10.980 --> 23:12.860 I don't read every single post. 23:13.200 --> 23:13.960 Well, there's... 23:13.960 --> 23:16.960 You know, I think the same thing happens in politics a lot, too, which is... 23:16.960 --> 23:19.600 And that's why there's the two things that people say don't talk about. 23:19.980 --> 23:20.140 Yeah. 23:20.160 --> 23:24.420 It always turns into a fight or an argument, and people start getting into pissing contests about it. 23:24.420 --> 23:32.600 But, you know, they come out there and they want to bash one political party or the other or just bash one president or the other. 23:32.880 --> 23:33.380 You know what? 23:33.440 --> 23:35.580 That can go back and forth all day long. 23:35.680 --> 23:36.520 Everybody, you can... 23:36.520 --> 23:39.220 You're entitled to your opinion, and you can post it all day long. 23:39.220 --> 23:49.440 But if you don't back it up with some facts, some factual information, you just go out there and you say, this idiot did this and this idiot did that, and there's no facts to represent or support it. 23:50.320 --> 23:50.540 You know? 23:50.540 --> 23:54.540 Or you preface it and say, in my opinion, I believe this. 23:55.240 --> 23:55.320 Yeah. 23:55.440 --> 23:55.780 You know? 23:56.620 --> 23:59.320 But I think I get what you're saying. 23:59.420 --> 24:02.600 The overall tone, you think, has been a little unfriendly and a little unaccommodating. 24:02.600 --> 24:04.920 Yeah, I mean, the people are going to be able to... 24:04.920 --> 24:10.040 If you're going to say something, and you're going to say it's fact, show what's where it's said it's fact. 24:10.900 --> 24:16.660 I mean, and just, I mean, and the other thing is that, I mean, you've been saying it's fact. 24:16.720 --> 24:20.360 If you give us, like, a link to some website, I mean, you can't... 24:20.360 --> 24:25.400 And the other thing is, if you say something that's on the Internet, fact, well, you don't know if it's, I mean, completely fact. 24:25.440 --> 24:28.260 You can't even really prove what's written on the Internet is fact. 24:28.860 --> 24:32.240 You prove, I mean, you can just make whatever, make up whatever you want. 24:32.740 --> 24:33.900 But, I mean, what I'm saying is you're right. 24:33.900 --> 24:37.720 You say, this is opinion, and this is what I believe. 24:37.720 --> 24:42.300 So, I mean, that could be fact, it could be opinion, so take it as you will. 24:43.260 --> 24:46.740 Yeah, I think you got your point across. 24:46.840 --> 24:48.980 I think people know what we're saying. 24:50.040 --> 24:53.060 And, again, for me, I keep out of it. 24:53.140 --> 24:58.020 If I see, I treat those posts an off-topic just as I would as any of the other on-topic posts. 24:59.100 --> 25:00.940 There are certain people... 25:00.940 --> 25:02.740 Oh, I've got to be careful here. 25:02.740 --> 25:18.240 Sometimes people will post, some more than others, in the different forums, replies or statements of as though they were fact when they are, in actuality, not. 25:18.700 --> 25:22.500 They are opinions, but they will be stated as though they are fact. 25:22.500 --> 25:32.740 And, if that happens in the on-topic forums, and I know them to be incorrect, I will post a reply saying, no, no, no, no, that's not right. 25:32.800 --> 25:33.740 Be careful what you say. 25:34.100 --> 25:35.140 This is a fact. 25:35.760 --> 25:37.540 The same thing holds true in off-topic. 25:37.620 --> 25:43.800 They may be some more opinion-based things, but there also are some facts that can be pointed out and misconceptions. 25:43.800 --> 25:51.960 So, I personally, if there's somebody who posts a completely false statement, then I'll reply and try to correct it. 25:52.600 --> 25:55.760 And, otherwise, I stay out of it because, what I said earlier, there's no point. 25:55.840 --> 25:56.760 There's nothing to be gained. 25:56.840 --> 26:00.840 If someone's that much of a zealot, and let me... 26:00.840 --> 26:04.320 I don't know if you're going to like me saying this, but it's on both sides, too, now, Mute. 26:04.420 --> 26:11.040 It's not just, you know, I know which side you're on, and I'm on a certain side, and I'm not even going to say that on the air. 26:11.040 --> 26:14.320 But, it also comes from our side to the others, as well. 26:14.740 --> 26:15.940 Not from us individually. 26:16.120 --> 26:21.700 I like to think that I'm pretty open-minded about all this, but, you know, it happens both ways. 26:22.080 --> 26:24.080 Yeah, I'm not going to say that we're all... 26:24.080 --> 26:24.380 Right. 26:24.440 --> 26:26.960 I mean, we all have faults. 26:27.500 --> 26:34.800 I mean, we could say one thing, and we're stretching the truth, or also making the same problem by saying our opinions are facts. 26:34.900 --> 26:38.000 But, I mean, I'm bringing my point up. 26:38.420 --> 26:38.700 Right. 26:38.700 --> 26:40.820 Well, you know, back to what we said earlier. 26:41.680 --> 26:46.340 We exist without skin color, without nationality, and without religious bias. 26:46.840 --> 26:48.180 That's from the Hacker's Manifesto. 26:48.800 --> 26:50.980 And that's one of the creeds, and one of the things... 26:50.980 --> 26:51.380 You know what? 26:51.440 --> 26:52.160 It's a forum. 26:52.600 --> 26:54.460 It doesn't matter what color you are. 26:54.640 --> 26:56.400 It doesn't matter what religion you are. 26:56.460 --> 26:58.140 It doesn't matter what country you're from. 26:58.520 --> 26:59.820 It does all of these things. 26:59.880 --> 27:02.180 Your sexual orientation, if you like to... 27:02.180 --> 27:03.580 I don't care. 27:04.120 --> 27:05.140 It's unimportant. 27:05.140 --> 27:08.180 It's so minor in the grand scheme of things. 27:08.820 --> 27:09.840 Keep that in mind. 27:10.320 --> 27:11.040 Keep that in mind. 27:11.100 --> 27:11.560 That's the message. 27:12.880 --> 27:13.400 Let's... 27:13.400 --> 27:13.860 You know what? 27:14.980 --> 27:16.280 Let's go into some freak news. 27:16.360 --> 27:21.620 Since you are the freak scout returning to the show, let's go into some actual freak news, and let's leave on... 27:21.620 --> 27:23.300 Let's go to some happier topics. 27:24.280 --> 27:25.140 Sound good? 27:25.800 --> 27:26.420 All right. 27:27.080 --> 27:29.220 I have some local freak news. 27:29.340 --> 27:31.300 I know Duel always talks about... 27:31.300 --> 27:33.120 What is it? 27:33.160 --> 27:33.540 Quest? 27:34.840 --> 27:35.140 Yeah. 27:35.340 --> 27:35.940 I have... 27:35.940 --> 27:37.300 The Southwestern... 27:37.820 --> 27:39.000 I have Bell South. 27:39.540 --> 27:42.560 I have Bell South as my hated company. 27:43.160 --> 27:51.540 Well, Florida legislature recently approved rate increases for Bell South basic phone service. 27:51.540 --> 27:55.900 They're going to go up $3.14 a month over the next three years. 27:57.080 --> 27:58.020 Now, why? 27:58.140 --> 27:59.520 Why would the phone service go up? 27:59.580 --> 28:00.240 What's the point? 28:00.320 --> 28:01.440 What's the reason for it? 28:01.480 --> 28:03.740 You know, you're just going to arbitrarily give them more money. 28:04.140 --> 28:06.840 They're already a multi-million, bazillion dollar corporation. 28:07.600 --> 28:10.220 Well, my basic phone, and everybody... 28:10.220 --> 28:13.380 It's well documented on the show what a cheap ass I am. 28:13.440 --> 28:19.440 I just don't believe in paying all these overpriced charges for these extra quote-unquote features 28:19.440 --> 28:24.640 that are already there, and they could give me dirt cheap and easily, you know. 28:24.640 --> 28:30.080 I don't believe in paying all this overcharged money just to stuff their pockets. 28:30.640 --> 28:35.140 So I get the basic phone service, $11.04 a month. 28:36.300 --> 28:41.340 Of course, that's not what my phone bill is, but that's what the basic phone service costs. 28:41.340 --> 28:48.880 I don't need all those other features, and they don't want to give them to me for a reasonable price 28:48.880 --> 28:51.200 to add them all on, so forget about it. 28:51.200 --> 28:54.800 $11.04 is what it costs for basic phone service. 28:55.760 --> 29:00.760 Of course, on top of that, they add on all these fees and all these extra taxes and blah, blah, blah. 29:00.760 --> 29:06.800 That $11.04 costs me $20.97 a month. 29:07.000 --> 29:07.500 That's horrible. 29:07.620 --> 29:08.700 $21.00. Almost double. 29:09.340 --> 29:12.000 Almost double the cost because of all the fees and taxes. 29:12.560 --> 29:16.620 Taxes are actually only a dollar or two, and you can't do much about that. 29:16.700 --> 29:18.160 What are you going to... You know, taxes are taxes. 29:18.780 --> 29:20.780 You're going to live, you're going to die, you're going to pay taxes. 29:20.860 --> 29:22.100 That's the three givens in life. 29:23.280 --> 29:26.620 But it's all these little fees and crap that they put on there. 29:27.160 --> 29:28.820 I mean, they're already feeing me to death. 29:28.820 --> 29:33.120 The whole point of getting a basic phone service is not to have to pay all those extra fees. 29:33.480 --> 29:36.480 I get charged $6.50 a month for network access charge. 29:36.640 --> 29:37.880 $6.50 a month! 29:39.400 --> 29:40.340 That's ridiculous. 29:40.500 --> 29:44.460 I've cut out all of the optional fees to get it down to $20.97. 29:45.300 --> 29:49.940 Most people probably pay upwards of $30 for that, quote, basic phone service 29:49.940 --> 29:55.520 because they got that inside wiring fee and all these extra fees that you could really easily get rid of. 29:55.520 --> 30:00.380 Just call the phone company, ask them, which ones are regulated, unregulated, which ones are optional, 30:00.480 --> 30:03.180 which ones can I get rid of safely without, you know... 30:03.180 --> 30:05.260 You get rid of your inside wiring. 30:05.360 --> 30:08.040 When's the last time you had to call somebody to come in and work on your phone? 30:08.780 --> 30:09.100 Never. 30:10.200 --> 30:10.520 Never. 30:11.600 --> 30:12.760 It'd be cheaper to pay... 30:12.760 --> 30:15.720 If something happens to pay them to come out and visit that one time, 30:15.820 --> 30:17.720 work for an hour and pay the hourly labor fee, 30:18.100 --> 30:20.180 than it would be for all the money they're siphoning off of you 30:20.180 --> 30:22.360 and these monthly fees over the course of years and years. 30:22.360 --> 30:23.920 Ridiculous. 30:25.140 --> 30:26.760 Anyway, with all this stuff wiped off, 30:26.860 --> 30:29.760 I still, I can't do anything about this network access charge. 30:30.140 --> 30:31.840 It's an FCC, quote, 30:32.380 --> 30:36.500 The FCC charge for network access is a charge to recover costs 30:36.500 --> 30:41.300 associated with connecting to a telecommunications service provider's interstate network. 30:42.320 --> 30:43.180 $6.50 a month. 30:43.460 --> 30:44.180 I can get... 30:44.180 --> 30:45.520 How much is net zero a month? 30:45.580 --> 30:47.440 Or how much is one of those cheap ISPs? 30:47.780 --> 30:48.020 $6.50? 30:48.020 --> 30:52.660 Yeah, you can get the ISP to give you the access for less than the fee. 30:53.360 --> 30:54.400 That's crazy. 30:56.060 --> 30:57.160 $6.50? 30:57.280 --> 30:57.620 What is it? 30:57.760 --> 30:58.280 I don't... 30:58.280 --> 30:58.960 That's ridiculous. 30:59.760 --> 31:00.660 That's ridiculous. 31:01.980 --> 31:04.580 But, hey, it's there and I think everybody... 31:05.120 --> 31:06.000 Do you have that on your phone? 31:06.520 --> 31:08.580 Well, you don't now, obviously, because you're on... 31:08.580 --> 31:08.980 The property. 31:08.980 --> 31:11.220 Yeah, so... 31:11.220 --> 31:12.440 I just hope... 31:12.440 --> 31:16.880 I wish my cable company would get on the ball and hook up a cable modem 31:16.880 --> 31:19.480 and I'll get rid of Bell South completely and go to Vonage myself. 31:19.660 --> 31:20.080 There you go. 31:20.760 --> 31:21.900 Or Packet 8. 31:22.300 --> 31:23.100 Packet 8, yeah. 31:24.240 --> 31:28.060 We'll listen and entertain both because I've heard good and bad things about both. 31:28.160 --> 31:30.080 Decoder and those guys talk about that a lot. 31:30.700 --> 31:33.060 Over on Default Radio, cbzone.org. 31:33.900 --> 31:34.380 Pimp, pimp. 31:34.380 --> 31:38.740 Now, anyway, you know what else there is? 31:38.800 --> 31:39.840 You know what the fee is on there? 31:39.940 --> 31:42.380 There's a Telecommunications Act surcharge. 31:44.360 --> 31:45.220 So, wait a minute. 31:45.280 --> 31:48.420 We pass a law to help consumers. 31:48.460 --> 31:50.920 It's in favor of the consumers to break up the monopolies. 31:51.580 --> 31:56.740 Yet, we allow them to put a fee on the phone bill to charge us for that? 31:58.300 --> 32:00.780 I don't get it. 32:00.780 --> 32:03.700 So, how are we better off now than when we were... 32:03.700 --> 32:05.400 Forget it, man. 32:05.480 --> 32:06.400 It's ridiculous. 32:06.600 --> 32:08.660 They're just screwing us under a different name. 32:08.740 --> 32:09.260 That's all they're doing. 32:09.340 --> 32:10.360 Screwing us in a different way. 32:11.100 --> 32:15.800 Anyway, the price hikes that they're talking about, $3.14 they're going to add to our phone bills, 32:16.440 --> 32:19.780 affects those of us who are on the bottom line. 32:20.100 --> 32:24.540 It's going to go up from $11.04 to $14.18 a month. 32:24.540 --> 32:30.540 Over the course of three years, it's going to add, I think, like $1.15 each year or something like that. 32:31.920 --> 32:34.940 But they're doing it on the low-end phone people. 32:35.260 --> 32:44.880 And their rationale, their reasoning to justify this is because they have to justify the money and the cost of offering premium services. 32:44.880 --> 32:47.980 Now, wait a minute. 32:48.100 --> 32:53.480 The whole point of having the low-end phone is to not have premium services. 32:53.800 --> 32:57.400 If I wanted premium services, I'd pay for premium services. 32:58.200 --> 33:05.260 But now, because they think they're losing money and, oh, well, we have to upgrade our equipment to provide premium services to everyone, 33:05.360 --> 33:09.960 whether they like them or not, it's only fair that we charge them for what they haven't asked for. 33:11.320 --> 33:12.440 Is that bizarre? 33:12.660 --> 33:14.080 Am I living in bizarro world? 33:14.880 --> 33:16.860 I mean, what the hell is going on here? 33:17.360 --> 33:18.820 Well, you are living in Florida. 33:19.100 --> 33:19.840 Well, you know what? 33:19.960 --> 33:21.560 That is a very good point. 33:21.960 --> 33:27.680 This is the most screwed-up state in the entire Union, the entire United States of America. 33:28.520 --> 33:31.180 Florida is always the most screwed-up state. 33:32.480 --> 33:35.880 And actually, I don't, this is, I think, all of Bell's South area. 33:35.940 --> 33:37.100 I don't think it's just Florida. 33:37.180 --> 33:38.000 I could be wrong. 33:38.680 --> 33:39.620 Well, I'll tell you this. 33:39.620 --> 33:49.980 Bell's South serves Florida, Georgia, I think Mississippi, possibly Alabama, Mississippi, possibly Louisiana. 33:50.180 --> 33:51.060 I'm not sure about that one. 33:51.400 --> 33:52.940 But the Southeast region. 33:53.080 --> 33:55.360 So I don't know if they all get affected with this as well. 33:55.440 --> 33:56.380 I would assume, no. 33:56.380 --> 33:59.800 So, I'm sorry, they can't be because this was done by Florida legislature. 33:59.940 --> 34:01.160 So this is just the state of Florida. 34:01.760 --> 34:03.180 So it's not all Bell's South. 34:03.240 --> 34:04.600 It's only Florida Bell's South. 34:05.460 --> 34:10.620 So I guess that's bad for me but good for the rest of the Bell's South customer area. 34:10.620 --> 34:12.240 But they probably will give you something similar. 34:13.240 --> 34:15.320 But I just don't, I don't get it. 34:15.360 --> 34:21.840 That's just making me pay for some, if I, you know, voluntarily paying for it if I want it is one thing. 34:22.180 --> 34:24.440 It's nice to be, have the option, I guess. 34:24.520 --> 34:25.340 Some people use it. 34:25.420 --> 34:30.220 People like Decoder and some of these guys that they, and Duel, they like having all this stuff. 34:30.280 --> 34:30.900 They use them. 34:31.280 --> 34:32.780 They actually have reason to use them. 34:34.800 --> 34:37.920 I'm going to have to pay for them now whether I use them or want them or not. 34:37.920 --> 34:41.600 Maybe this is their way of breaking me down and making me pay for them and get on. 34:41.640 --> 34:44.960 As long as they're going to charge me, I might as well get the features, right? 34:45.460 --> 34:45.920 There you go. 34:46.520 --> 34:47.640 Ah, ridiculous. 34:48.220 --> 34:49.060 Bell's South sucks. 34:49.660 --> 34:50.120 That's it. 34:50.180 --> 34:51.160 That's the end of the story. 34:51.240 --> 34:52.440 Bell's South just really sucks. 34:54.040 --> 34:56.260 Oh, and actually, this is very timely. 34:56.420 --> 34:59.140 On a related note, Bell's South sucks again. 35:00.560 --> 35:04.320 Episode 24, and I don't know if you're caught up that far. 35:04.320 --> 35:07.120 You might still be back on Episode 5. 35:07.600 --> 35:08.540 Hey, hey, hey. 35:08.620 --> 35:18.080 But anyway, on Episode 24, we talked about Social Security numbers and how many places still use your SSN or the last four digits of your SSN. 35:18.280 --> 35:21.780 I mean, how almost everyone uses them because they think it's safe. 35:22.040 --> 35:22.280 Right. 35:22.380 --> 35:27.360 Well, and obviously, we all know how not safe that they are. 35:27.360 --> 35:35.160 You can get SSN and SSN last four digits and all kinds of personal information, sometimes right from the same exact place. 35:35.960 --> 35:37.160 Like a bank, for example. 35:37.240 --> 35:46.680 They may want the last four of your social to make your default pin, but you may be able to go over and have them print out a balance or something, 35:46.680 --> 35:48.940 and it has the social or account number. 35:49.720 --> 35:52.720 Sometimes there's ways right in front of you to get that social. 35:54.560 --> 35:55.860 Anyway, that's easy. 35:55.940 --> 35:58.040 You can find Social Security information very easy. 35:58.040 --> 36:07.100 Well, my good friends at Bell South, since I'm bashing on them, they have something called the Right Touch Service, 36:07.740 --> 36:18.520 which that's an 800 number, one of those automated systems that will allow you to change your phone settings, options, features, stuff like that via a touchstone phone. 36:18.520 --> 36:19.520 You can dial up the number. 36:19.700 --> 36:22.820 You can say, yes, add this feature, change this, blah, blah, blah. 36:23.960 --> 36:27.020 And guess what the default four-digit pin code is? 36:27.460 --> 36:28.200 What is it? 36:28.580 --> 36:31.220 Last four digits of the Social Security number. 36:32.260 --> 36:32.860 That's all. 36:33.840 --> 36:34.400 That's it. 36:34.980 --> 36:40.440 If you know the last four of the Social Security number of somebody, you can own them like that. 36:40.760 --> 36:41.420 I don't know if that... 36:41.420 --> 36:42.340 I snapped my finger. 36:42.420 --> 36:46.900 I don't know if that's going to pick up on the microphone there, but you can own somebody. 36:46.900 --> 36:51.800 You can totally fuck-sore somebody up if you know the last four Social in so many different ways. 36:51.900 --> 36:52.800 And this is just one more. 36:52.900 --> 36:55.220 You can call up and you can... 36:55.220 --> 36:56.720 The Touchstone will allow you to deactivate. 36:56.780 --> 36:58.380 You can deactivate your phone service with this. 36:59.200 --> 37:01.800 Call them up, cancel their phone service, or add a bunch of features. 37:01.960 --> 37:05.140 There's all kinds of stuff you could do with this. 37:06.940 --> 37:10.120 So the moral here is don't rely on the Social Security number. 37:10.940 --> 37:11.960 It's too open. 37:12.060 --> 37:12.680 It's too out there. 37:12.760 --> 37:15.460 It's a publicly usable, accessible number. 37:15.460 --> 37:17.460 And you can't... 37:17.460 --> 37:18.200 You know... 37:18.200 --> 37:24.380 You're not offering your clients and consumers protection by using something like that. 37:25.340 --> 37:37.460 So, for the phreaks out there, if you want to play with right touch service, it is 1-888-764-2500. 37:37.460 --> 37:44.980 And for the Trons of the world, I've already changed my default pin, so bugger off. 37:46.600 --> 37:47.000 Anyway. 37:48.080 --> 37:48.660 So, oh yeah. 37:48.780 --> 37:51.160 And in case I didn't mention it enough, BellSouth sucks. 37:51.160 --> 37:58.160 Now, I have actually... 37:58.160 --> 37:59.820 Let me see. 37:59.880 --> 38:01.260 How are we doing on time here? 38:01.320 --> 38:01.780 I have... 38:01.780 --> 38:08.040 I wanted to do kind of a mini-review on Sun's new JDS, which is their Java desktop system. 38:08.140 --> 38:08.540 Yeah, hit it. 38:08.600 --> 38:09.460 We've got plenty of time. 38:09.520 --> 38:10.000 Plenty of time. 38:10.140 --> 38:10.760 How... 38:10.760 --> 38:11.440 Have you... 38:11.440 --> 38:14.560 Do you know anything about this, or have you ever seen their new JDS? 38:14.880 --> 38:17.440 Heard about it, but then I got refreshed when he told me. 38:17.880 --> 38:18.260 Okay. 38:18.540 --> 38:19.460 I mean, sort of a... 38:19.460 --> 38:20.480 It sounds interesting. 38:20.960 --> 38:21.580 It does. 38:21.640 --> 38:26.440 It sounds like a very interesting, well, for lack of a better word, Linux distribution. 38:26.920 --> 38:30.460 It's based on SUSE, SUSE, however you want to pronounce it. 38:30.900 --> 38:39.280 It's based on a version of SUSE Linux, uses GNOME desktop with Evolution, and it comes with J2SE. 38:40.060 --> 38:40.980 It also comes... 38:40.980 --> 38:45.020 It comes with the standards basic, like StarOffice, Mozilla, Evolution, blah, blah, blah. 38:45.020 --> 38:48.100 Um, but what they... 38:48.100 --> 38:52.580 They're marketing it, and they're making this out to be the quote, and this is a quote from 38:52.580 --> 38:57.380 their site, the first viable Microsoft Windows alternative in years. 38:58.780 --> 39:05.140 Um, well, Linux has been around for quite a while, and it's a viable alternative if you 39:05.140 --> 39:10.160 ask me, but okay, now that you put the sun name on it, I guess it's an even better alternative. 39:10.160 --> 39:17.400 Um, actually, uh, my friend Womp, uh, had a copy of this, and we were playing around with 39:17.400 --> 39:17.540 it. 39:17.740 --> 39:18.940 I didn't get to do a whole lot of detail. 39:19.040 --> 39:20.360 That's why this is kind of a mini review. 39:20.520 --> 39:25.240 I didn't really get to go into a lot of detail on it, but what I can tell you is that it's 39:25.240 --> 39:26.380 beautiful to look at. 39:26.640 --> 39:28.860 It's a very nice-looking distro, very clean. 39:28.860 --> 39:38.360 Um, what I liked, and what I think they had an advantage on is that they used, um, they 39:38.360 --> 39:47.320 did a good job at making GNOME, um, and Linux, and or Linux, using GNOME, look a lot like Microsoft's 39:47.320 --> 39:48.000 Luna interface. 39:48.620 --> 39:51.340 They very much made the start menu similar to Microsoft. 39:51.340 --> 39:56.660 They very much tried to organize things and make everything look and feel like Windows 39:56.660 --> 40:03.000 XP, which I know some people hate it, but in the grand scheme of things, I think that's 40:03.000 --> 40:03.920 a very good thing. 40:04.020 --> 40:08.220 It allows people to get more comfortable and more familiar with a different operating system 40:08.220 --> 40:14.420 without a huge, very life-altering change to a different, uh, Windows system, you know? 40:14.420 --> 40:23.000 Yeah, I think, even though it looks the same, I mean, this was done, tried to be done with 40:23.000 --> 40:25.420 Lindos, and then I obviously failed. 40:25.800 --> 40:26.880 Lindos sucks, too. 40:27.560 --> 40:29.340 Burning pile of dog shit. 40:29.500 --> 40:32.160 Yeah, Lindos was, I did, I tried Lindos, it was horrible. 40:32.440 --> 40:32.660 Yeah. 40:32.860 --> 40:33.700 It was just horrible. 40:33.840 --> 40:42.560 The problem I see, and I don't think this is ever gonna happen, unless a drastic change 40:42.560 --> 40:47.060 arises, and they kind of, they're, it's paradoxical. 40:47.800 --> 40:55.000 The killer app for Windows, I think a lot of people agree with me here, is, is, is Office, 40:56.400 --> 40:57.640 specifically Word. 40:58.400 --> 40:58.880 Okay. 40:59.520 --> 41:05.200 Because everyone knows it, everyone does it, everyone has a type of paper in their lives, 41:05.940 --> 41:10.980 and almost all of them use Word, or an Office product. 41:10.980 --> 41:13.300 Well, a very large quantity. 41:13.480 --> 41:13.860 A very, very large. 41:14.040 --> 41:14.480 I mean, yes. 41:14.840 --> 41:20.620 I mean, I know a lot of people, they use Word Perfect, or they go to Open Office, but the 41:20.620 --> 41:22.900 big majority is, is Word. 41:24.100 --> 41:24.580 Okay. 41:24.740 --> 41:28.300 And you're never gonna see Word on Linux. 41:28.300 --> 41:35.820 Only if Linux got more market share than Windows, but they can't, so they're out, because you 41:35.820 --> 41:36.960 can't have one with the other. 41:37.360 --> 41:41.000 Well, they have the port of Microsoft Office for Macintosh, as you're well aware. 41:41.080 --> 41:41.860 True, but... 41:41.860 --> 41:45.380 And that's a much small market share compared to Microsoft Windows. 41:45.500 --> 41:50.620 But, that's not much of a threat, because they can control them, because A, they own a 41:50.620 --> 41:51.160 part of it. 41:51.540 --> 41:51.940 True. 41:51.940 --> 41:57.660 And B, not a lot of people want to pay that much more money for a Macintosh, and there's, 41:57.820 --> 42:03.700 I mean, it's all negligible, but their, their, their direct competitor, if you call it a 42:03.700 --> 42:05.240 competitor, is Linux. 42:06.620 --> 42:13.100 So, I mean, you'll never get a Word, the, you'll never get the name brand Word on Linux 42:13.100 --> 42:17.000 without Linux being bigger, and you'll never see that without Word, so you can never have 42:17.000 --> 42:17.180 it. 42:17.180 --> 42:21.000 But, you do see Word, like, OpenOffice and that stuff on Linux. 42:21.480 --> 42:25.340 Which supports the Microsoft Word formats and Excel formats. 42:25.600 --> 42:26.680 So, it's okay. 42:27.060 --> 42:33.520 So, you're never going to see a lot of people unless you get this, like, massive migration 42:33.520 --> 42:39.760 of programmers saying, hey, let's go to Linux and develop over there. 42:40.580 --> 42:44.780 And, you're never going to do that because they're easier with Windows. 42:44.780 --> 42:52.280 Well, that, I mean, you have to give, I don't know, credit, but you have to give some credibility, 42:52.480 --> 42:59.920 I guess, or some, you have to give a nod to Microsoft for providing a lot of information, 43:00.840 --> 43:06.660 a lot of development kits and stuff like that, to develop things for Windows and under Windows. 43:06.660 --> 43:12.140 Whether it's, um, Visual Studio or something like that that you purchase, or one of the 43:12.140 --> 43:18.520 numerous, um, Tech Nets and Tech Net briefings and CDs and developer kits you can download. 43:18.740 --> 43:19.920 So much stuff, it's amazing. 43:20.120 --> 43:20.880 Tons of stuff. 43:20.960 --> 43:22.840 Now, granted, it's not all free. 43:23.220 --> 43:23.400 Yeah. 43:23.460 --> 43:25.080 Matter of fact, the majority of it's probably not. 43:25.080 --> 43:31.340 But, but it's available and the difference is, the reason it's not all free, well, there's 43:31.340 --> 43:36.920 the obvious reason they want to make money, but also they gear it towards corporations and 43:36.920 --> 43:41.460 companies and stuff to pay for it so that their users and developers can develop under 43:41.460 --> 43:42.400 Microsoft Windows. 43:42.400 --> 43:51.660 Whereas, Linux and, and all of the derivations thereof, you can write in plain old C using 43:51.660 --> 43:58.660 a free compiler and, you know, create stuff, nothing to do, irrelevant, irregardless of 43:58.660 --> 43:58.960 Windows. 44:00.040 --> 44:08.200 So, the killer app, well, I don't know if, Logan and I had a conversation about this before, 44:08.200 --> 44:14.060 about the killer app, and I don't know how you feel about this, but we kind of came up 44:14.060 --> 44:17.520 with the idea that possibly the killer app is virtual PC. 44:19.260 --> 44:19.740 Or? 44:20.560 --> 44:28.040 Where you could run applications or run something inside a virtual PC window, and you can run 44:28.040 --> 44:32.080 a Linux box, yet still within virtual PC run Microsoft Office. 44:32.960 --> 44:34.480 This is, this is possible. 44:34.480 --> 44:38.980 So, the problem there is, you're going to need a much faster computer. 44:39.600 --> 44:40.040 True. 44:40.380 --> 44:41.160 And a lot more RAM. 44:41.340 --> 44:43.040 Right, and we did, we did mention that. 44:43.760 --> 44:48.420 And you're going to eventually reach the point where that's possible because, just because 44:48.420 --> 44:49.620 that's how technology works. 44:50.480 --> 44:54.480 So, in that, in that regard, one day you might see that. 44:57.580 --> 44:58.020 Hmm. 44:58.020 --> 45:02.940 Because, you'll get computers that are faster, more memory, and cheaper. 45:04.200 --> 45:05.580 So, hey, you know, we could run that. 45:05.740 --> 45:10.600 And then, let's see, virtual PCs, it's also using Windows still, though, so, I mean. 45:10.840 --> 45:11.940 Right, well, you know. 45:11.960 --> 45:12.660 There's some action there. 45:13.240 --> 45:14.980 Yeah, yeah, what are you going to do? 45:15.200 --> 45:15.360 Yeah. 45:15.640 --> 45:17.260 But that type of software, anyway. 45:17.260 --> 45:23.820 Well, I just read on Slash today that someone, some consortium or whatever organization said 45:23.820 --> 45:28.480 that a lot of more businesses are wising up to Linux and saying, you know, it's better. 45:29.300 --> 45:37.440 So, because of security, things, and because it's free, so, I mean, you know, you're not 45:37.440 --> 45:41.640 going to see a big shift on the desktop market, but I don't think a lot of people were ever 45:41.640 --> 45:45.980 going to expect a big shift onto the desktop market for Linux to begin with. 45:45.980 --> 45:49.200 I think there is a small shift, though, which is a good start. 45:49.360 --> 45:49.760 It's going. 45:50.260 --> 45:51.380 It's a good start. 45:51.480 --> 45:51.620 Yeah. 45:51.880 --> 45:58.500 And this, back to this Java desktop, could have been another small step, another way to 45:58.500 --> 46:03.680 boost it up, because, like I said, it looks very much like Luna. 46:03.820 --> 46:05.780 It looks very much like Windows XP interface. 46:06.020 --> 46:10.420 So, you would get some people who could migrate more easily and more comfortably because they're 46:10.420 --> 46:11.220 kind of used to that. 46:11.220 --> 46:20.240 Now, the big difference here is that because it's from Sun, there, obviously, the big push 46:20.240 --> 46:21.420 for it was Java. 46:21.480 --> 46:23.160 It's called Java Desktop System. 46:24.420 --> 46:29.140 I don't, I couldn't, I didn't get it, I wasn't able to find out if they actually still even 46:29.140 --> 46:36.000 had a GCC compiler or anything like that, but what it definitely did have and did tout 46:36.000 --> 46:41.780 was the Java application tools, and that's basically the heart of what this distro is 46:41.780 --> 46:42.060 about. 46:43.120 --> 46:48.600 They're pushing Sun products and Sun Java, and what we just said about Microsoft and 46:48.600 --> 46:52.460 their development kits, they sell to corporations and they want them to pay for it and develop. 46:52.900 --> 46:57.420 Well, Sun, on the other hand, wants people to develop under Java and wants people to use 46:57.420 --> 47:01.480 their Java development tools, which they provide versions of free. 47:01.480 --> 47:08.880 They have paid versions, but they also have free versions, so they bundled, there's the 47:08.880 --> 47:13.220 bundle word Microsoft uses a lot, they bundled, part of their distro is that they give you 47:13.220 --> 47:19.040 all these Java applications to use, and they want you to develop stuff, not only for the 47:19.040 --> 47:23.100 Java Desktop System itself, but any of, all of Linux. 47:23.260 --> 47:28.620 I mean, Java being platform independent, for the most part, that could be a whole other 47:28.620 --> 47:32.300 conversation, is a way to kind of combine those two things together. 47:32.420 --> 47:37.180 You can give them a desktop environment and the tools to develop under said environment. 47:37.880 --> 47:41.380 So, they're trying to tie all these things together, and it's really, I think it's a good 47:41.380 --> 47:41.800 idea. 47:42.400 --> 47:43.480 It really is a good idea. 47:44.480 --> 47:48.760 Also, all the bundled apps that came with it, they were very careful, like Mozilla, for 47:48.760 --> 47:49.120 example. 47:49.540 --> 47:52.340 All of those apps support Java. 47:52.340 --> 47:54.400 They all include Java support. 47:54.400 --> 48:02.040 Everything that they included with this distribution was Java related, even, it's not, they don't 48:02.040 --> 48:07.500 include OpenOffice.org, they include StarOffice, which is Sun's office product. 48:07.960 --> 48:12.980 So, they bundle all of these things together to release, basically, this is the all Java 48:12.980 --> 48:15.740 developers Linux distro. 48:16.340 --> 48:21.000 Like I said, I don't know if it had, still also had the GCC and C compiler, et cetera, et 48:21.000 --> 48:21.180 cetera. 48:21.760 --> 48:23.620 It may still have that as well. 48:24.580 --> 48:25.940 I would hope so. 48:26.500 --> 48:28.640 It could be possible they stripped it and it's Java only. 48:29.100 --> 48:33.460 Again, I wish I had more time to have looked at it, maybe a more in-depth review later. 48:34.480 --> 48:38.160 But, like I said, this, theoretically, it's actually an interesting distro. 48:38.220 --> 48:40.040 I don't know if good is the word, but it's interesting. 48:40.040 --> 48:46.400 And, I do think that there are a lot of big companies, they would break into that corporation 48:46.400 --> 48:49.900 or companies where Microsoft is trying to get their market share. 48:49.980 --> 48:53.940 Like we said earlier, they're getting developers to develop under Windows by providing this. 48:54.400 --> 48:59.700 Well, now, Sun is providing an operating system and development tools for said operating system. 49:00.000 --> 49:04.700 They might actually slip in, and maybe that's why they said earlier, a Windows alternative. 49:04.700 --> 49:12.660 They're kind of giving people a platform and a lot of help to develop for this. 49:12.780 --> 49:18.900 Now, again, platform independent, so it should work across platforms, across different versions 49:18.900 --> 49:23.520 and flavors of Linux, but without some hands-on, that wouldn't be for sure. 49:23.860 --> 49:26.820 But the problem, there's one big problem with this distro. 49:27.320 --> 49:29.400 And, frankly, I guess I shouldn't call it a distro. 49:29.400 --> 49:36.180 I shouldn't call it a Linux distro, because Linux distributions, you can download the source 49:36.180 --> 49:38.320 code for free, compile it for yourself. 49:38.420 --> 49:39.400 It's under the GPL. 49:40.520 --> 49:44.460 This one's not, which kind of irks me a little bit. 49:44.700 --> 49:48.820 And, Voodoo Hal and I got into a discussion about this, and we might bring this up next 49:48.820 --> 49:52.140 week again, about the GPL and the GPL loopholes. 49:52.140 --> 50:02.460 Basically, the Java desktop system, Suns JDS, is $100 per desktop per year. 50:03.100 --> 50:03.880 Per year! 50:05.140 --> 50:07.740 I mean, at least Microsoft does pay it once and you're done. 50:08.400 --> 50:10.060 Per year, it's an annual fee. 50:11.720 --> 50:14.600 Now, I don't understand. 50:14.840 --> 50:17.360 They come right out and admit that it's based on SUSE. 50:17.360 --> 50:21.820 It comes with all these free applications. 50:22.660 --> 50:29.540 Even the Java stuff, the Sun products, like StarOffice and J2SE and stuff, blah, blah, blah, 50:29.540 --> 50:31.960 are freely available. 50:32.120 --> 50:35.700 They release them for free, trying to get a foothold and get developers to take on. 50:35.760 --> 50:36.760 So, all those are free. 50:37.240 --> 50:40.400 They may not be free source under the GPL, but they are free products. 50:40.400 --> 50:47.360 Yet, somehow, they're able to charge $100 per year for this. 50:48.100 --> 50:49.220 So, I don't like that. 50:49.360 --> 50:51.260 I don't like the idea of that. 50:52.180 --> 50:58.900 They're taking stuff that the open source community and hackers, which, that's people 50:58.900 --> 50:59.500 that developed this. 50:59.540 --> 51:04.100 There's a lot of hackers that developed this, or helped developing it on Linux. 51:04.100 --> 51:09.380 Because, over these years, and now Sun is going to come in and take all the hard work 51:09.380 --> 51:14.840 of the open source community and all these free products and these GPL products, bundle 51:14.840 --> 51:21.040 them together, include their little bit of Java on top of it, and somehow, they're okay 51:21.040 --> 51:22.000 to charge for it? 51:22.940 --> 51:29.740 Sounds like when Windows took someone else's, when they made like DOS, they took DOS from 51:29.740 --> 51:31.880 some other dude and resold it. 51:31.880 --> 51:37.380 And, I don't, you know, I just don't get this. 51:37.540 --> 51:43.760 And, people, if you go out and the advocates of it, they'll fight and argue claiming that 51:43.760 --> 51:47.980 everything is free and open source, but they can't combat the fact that you have to pay 51:47.980 --> 51:48.660 for this thing. 51:49.460 --> 51:51.400 Where is the source code for me to download? 51:52.560 --> 51:55.960 So, anyway, I like it. 51:56.160 --> 51:57.080 I like the distro. 51:57.180 --> 51:57.960 I like the interface. 51:58.180 --> 51:59.320 I like the look and feel of it. 51:59.380 --> 52:00.760 I like the idea of it. 52:00.760 --> 52:02.080 But, I like Java. 52:02.800 --> 52:03.240 I do. 52:03.480 --> 52:04.080 I like Java. 52:04.220 --> 52:05.640 I think it's a good, you know, it's decent. 52:05.820 --> 52:06.280 It's good. 52:07.560 --> 52:11.240 For what it, you know, for the, it has good things and has bad things about it. 52:11.780 --> 52:17.140 And, to base a whole distro, providing a bunch of development tools and stuff is a 52:17.140 --> 52:17.960 very good thing. 52:17.960 --> 52:24.180 But, it's a good, potentially good distribution that was ruined by greed. 52:24.280 --> 52:29.240 I mean, if they release this for free, or at least the source for free so that people 52:29.240 --> 52:34.160 can make their own, you know, maybe not an ISO, but that would be nice too. 52:34.160 --> 52:38.360 If this was free, I would highly recommend it. 52:38.420 --> 52:39.380 I would put it on a box. 52:39.580 --> 52:44.400 I would absolutely, undoubtedly, put this on one of my boxes at home and try it and play 52:44.400 --> 52:46.280 with it and actually learn from it. 52:46.700 --> 52:48.540 But, I won't do it for a hundred bucks a year. 52:49.620 --> 52:52.540 So, I can't recommend it at a hundred bucks a year. 52:53.280 --> 52:54.620 That's, I guess, my review. 52:55.540 --> 52:57.100 If you've got to pay for it, nope. 52:57.760 --> 52:58.080 Nope. 52:58.220 --> 53:01.000 You'd be better off sticking with any other Linux. 53:01.060 --> 53:03.360 As a matter of fact, go get SUSE that it's based on. 53:04.040 --> 53:06.880 Whatever version, I think it was SLC 1.0. 53:07.200 --> 53:09.140 Whatever version it's based on, go get that. 53:09.780 --> 53:12.280 Then, download the free Java development kit. 53:12.740 --> 53:14.100 And, then, download Mozilla. 53:14.280 --> 53:17.080 And, then, download the Star Office and put it all together yourself. 53:19.580 --> 53:20.940 Probably get just as good. 53:22.540 --> 53:23.780 Just as good a result. 53:25.720 --> 53:29.460 Now, we have a little time left. 53:30.280 --> 53:33.620 And, I have another topic. 53:33.760 --> 53:35.200 Did you want to, am I cutting you off? 53:35.240 --> 53:36.120 Did you want to talk about anything? 53:36.340 --> 53:36.780 No, I'm good. 53:36.880 --> 53:37.360 Just keep going. 53:37.400 --> 53:37.600 Okay. 53:38.280 --> 53:40.420 There's a new, this is not new, actually. 53:40.500 --> 53:41.420 This is not new at all. 53:42.020 --> 53:44.960 But, this buzzword, I've never heard this buzzword before. 53:45.280 --> 53:46.760 And, that is cluster bombs. 53:47.660 --> 53:50.440 There are email cluster bombs is the terminology. 53:50.440 --> 53:51.820 And, it caught my eye, of course. 53:51.820 --> 53:52.100 What? 53:52.180 --> 53:53.060 Email cluster bomb. 53:53.140 --> 53:53.480 What the? 53:54.040 --> 53:54.320 You know. 53:54.400 --> 53:55.200 So, I checked this out. 53:55.860 --> 53:57.720 This is, like I said, it's not a new trick. 53:57.820 --> 53:59.680 There's nothing new about this. 53:59.680 --> 54:06.140 But, well, let me, here's the foundation. 54:06.640 --> 54:10.080 I think everybody knows, and probably at some time might have done this. 54:10.380 --> 54:20.040 You can go to a website and sign up for their newsletter, place an order, request for information, join their mailing list, blah, blah, blah. 54:20.040 --> 54:26.760 By putting in your email address and clicking subscribe me or enter or, you know, clicking on the okay button, whatever. 54:28.940 --> 54:32.220 Well, you put in someone else's email, of course, they're going to get the email. 54:32.400 --> 54:33.360 It doesn't confirm that. 54:33.360 --> 54:39.080 It doesn't really have a way of confirming whether that person actually submitted the request, right? 54:39.880 --> 54:40.580 You with me? 54:41.100 --> 54:41.900 I'm with you so much. 54:41.900 --> 54:42.060 Right? 54:42.160 --> 54:42.780 That's nothing new. 54:42.880 --> 54:43.280 That's old. 54:43.380 --> 54:44.260 That's silly, you know. 54:45.440 --> 54:54.360 Well, the one small attempt at stopping this from being a big problem, because a long time ago that was a big problem. 54:54.360 --> 55:01.620 You'd go out, and in a period of five, ten minutes, you could have people subscribe to so many mailing lists that it would just completely flood their inbox. 55:02.440 --> 55:11.000 So, very early on in mailing list history, they added the confirmation email where you have to reply back saying, yes, I did request this. 55:11.060 --> 55:11.920 Go ahead and add me. 55:11.980 --> 55:12.920 You'd have to confirm it. 55:13.220 --> 55:17.960 So, therefore, you would have to have access to said email address to confirm that you wanted to be subscribed. 55:18.620 --> 55:22.140 So, the worst you could do was send one email to your victim. 55:22.140 --> 55:26.680 And the victim would say, oh, no, I don't want to subscribe to your mailing list, blah, you know, and it's over with. 55:27.000 --> 55:28.400 Well, what? 55:28.500 --> 55:28.780 I'm sorry? 55:28.880 --> 55:31.100 But you just send them a bunch of confirmation emails. 55:31.620 --> 55:32.980 Well, and there you go. 55:33.060 --> 55:38.260 And that's fundamentally what the email cluster bomb is. 55:39.320 --> 55:45.800 You can put in your email address, the target's email address, and send them a confirmation message. 55:46.360 --> 55:50.040 And in a matter of five or ten minutes, you might find a dozen of those. 55:50.040 --> 55:53.220 Well, that's not really enough to bother them a dozen emails. 55:53.260 --> 55:57.560 I mean, it's going to annoy them, but they probably get a dozen or more spam messages anyway. 55:58.320 --> 56:00.520 So, it's still not quite a cluster bomb. 56:00.980 --> 56:08.060 However, and we talked about this on the show a while back, too. 56:08.060 --> 56:14.160 I don't remember who it was, but we talked about a denial of service attack on cell phones. 56:14.220 --> 56:24.520 You can send a message to a cell phone by sending it to the number at whatever.t-mobile.com or singular.net or whatever. 56:24.660 --> 56:26.420 You know, you could send it to that person's phone number. 56:26.420 --> 56:31.280 And we talked about, you know, writing a script that would just send a message over and over to an email. 56:31.700 --> 56:37.420 Well, when you combine that idea that we talked about on the show with something like this, 56:37.680 --> 56:41.640 suddenly you're sending a bunch of confirmation emails and sending stuff to people's cell phone 56:41.640 --> 56:46.640 that's a massive distributed denial of service attack on a cell phone. 56:47.040 --> 56:50.420 Not only on an inbox, but on a cell phone. 56:50.540 --> 56:52.900 That's even worse because of the data rate of a cell phone. 56:52.900 --> 56:55.080 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 56:55.300 --> 57:01.120 So, again, a dozen of these is annoying, but not such a big deal. 57:01.260 --> 57:08.080 But I think we all know that writing a script to automate this is pretty easy to do. 57:08.160 --> 57:08.920 I did it to a friend. 57:10.500 --> 57:15.140 Crawl out there looking for, are they still a friend? 57:15.980 --> 57:16.420 Oh, yeah. 57:16.980 --> 57:20.160 I did a couple of funny stuff to them, but that's not here nor there. 57:20.160 --> 57:27.600 Well, you know, I mean, but this could be a very widespread, enormous attack if done right. 57:28.020 --> 57:34.040 If the script is done intelligently, somebody did it as a test on made up an email address 57:34.040 --> 57:39.460 and see what the results look like and fine-tuned it, there are vulnerability scripts out there, 57:39.920 --> 57:43.180 tons of vulnerability assessing programs that will go out and find flaws. 57:43.500 --> 57:46.440 You can write a very similar one that goes out from server to server, 57:46.440 --> 57:51.420 a robot, a spider, that goes out and checks, do they have a send mail CGI script out there? 57:52.220 --> 57:54.980 And if they see it, start sending out addresses. 57:56.020 --> 57:57.880 So, you don't have to have a list of them. 57:58.100 --> 58:00.220 You don't have to know which websites to go to. 58:00.540 --> 58:08.280 Just write a spider to go out there and check, gather them up, and then, bam, automate the whole process. 58:08.280 --> 58:14.280 And all of a sudden, it's not a dozen, it's not a hundred, it's thousands or tens of thousands of, 58:15.360 --> 58:19.380 again, it doesn't have to be subscribing to mailing lists, just confirmation messages. 58:20.180 --> 58:22.180 And you have a denial-of-service attack. 58:22.280 --> 58:29.020 You're going to completely blow someone's inbox up and thus the word email cluster bomb. 58:29.020 --> 58:32.660 I want to bring, we're almost out of time, but I want to bring up one more point. 58:32.780 --> 58:33.020 Shoot. 58:33.400 --> 58:34.940 Which is about, you know, stupidity. 58:35.480 --> 58:41.320 And remember all back in the day when we got all that, those, remember that there's an email virus fad? 58:42.200 --> 58:43.660 Like, there's a different one every week. 58:43.840 --> 58:44.200 Right. 58:44.440 --> 58:47.200 Right, like, you know, love, love, sand, millis, or whatever. 58:47.520 --> 58:48.400 Well, there's a new one out. 58:48.960 --> 58:49.300 Mm-hmm. 58:49.460 --> 58:50.580 But it's not over the mail. 58:51.500 --> 58:52.560 It's over AIM. 58:53.260 --> 58:55.780 I mean, you may have seen this, a lot of people have seen it, you know, it says like, 58:55.780 --> 59:00.520 oh, I have, like, it's in that person's profile, I found pictures of screen name, 59:00.580 --> 59:03.500 insert screen name here, here, oh, ha, ha, and it's a link. 59:04.520 --> 59:08.160 And what, you click that link, it puts that thing in your profile, 59:08.700 --> 59:10.360 and you can never get rid of it. 59:10.400 --> 59:11.000 It's a virus. 59:11.860 --> 59:12.220 Hmm. 59:12.340 --> 59:18.200 So there's a stupidity comes in, when people just click blindly on things, 59:18.260 --> 59:19.720 they have no idea what they are. 59:20.360 --> 59:23.660 And I ran into this when I clicked it, but I was on a Mac box. 59:23.660 --> 59:26.820 So you were stupid enough to click it. 59:27.220 --> 59:28.720 Yeah, I clicked it, because I just didn't care. 59:30.160 --> 59:32.760 And it was a Mac, I'm a Mac box, it doesn't do to me. 59:33.040 --> 59:35.320 But so, like, all my friends have this thing, and I'm like, what the fuck? 59:36.260 --> 59:39.480 So, yeah, I find out it's a virus, and I put a link in mine to say, 59:39.540 --> 59:40.620 click this to get rid of it. 59:41.160 --> 59:41.880 Because some people have it. 59:42.080 --> 59:43.820 Well, then they why some people start getting rid of it? 59:43.860 --> 59:44.820 No, they made a new version. 59:45.660 --> 59:46.680 That's spreading now, too. 59:47.480 --> 59:47.740 Hmm. 59:48.320 --> 59:51.140 I have not heard of this, and I might have to do a little research for the next show, 59:51.140 --> 59:52.860 so we can give them some names and stuff about it. 59:52.860 --> 59:54.040 You can forward me some information. 59:54.340 --> 59:54.460 Yep. 59:56.580 --> 59:57.680 But we're out, we're done. 59:57.880 --> 01:00:03.380 Yeah, okay, well, let me, the, about this cluster bomb, I, I, there's, it's just, 01:00:03.700 --> 01:00:09.240 it strikes me as funny about this, because it's very ironic that normally a denial of service, 01:00:09.300 --> 01:00:11.700 a distributed, this is a distributed denial of service. 01:00:11.900 --> 01:00:14.160 It's not just a normal DOS, this is a DDOS. 01:00:14.160 --> 01:00:19.560 And instead of having a bunch of Trojans installed on a bunch of different machines 01:00:19.560 --> 01:00:24.400 and then attacking a target system, it's very ironic that you're actually using 01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:28.800 a bunch of different websites, a bunch of different machines and servers out there 01:00:28.800 --> 01:00:30.880 to attack one target machine. 01:00:31.220 --> 01:00:34.480 You don't have to install Trojans, you don't have to make zombie machines out there 01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:35.420 to do this kind of stuff. 01:00:35.420 --> 01:00:41.860 You can use what's in existing systems that are out there that just have this, quote, feature 01:00:41.860 --> 01:00:46.480 to target anyone if written properly. 01:00:46.540 --> 01:00:49.680 Like I said, I foresee this happening within the next few months. 01:00:49.680 --> 01:00:57.180 Now, there is a solution for this, and Indiana University has, their computer scientist, 01:00:57.280 --> 01:01:04.640 his name is Filippo Menser, his suggestion, and this is very valid, simple but valid, 01:01:05.100 --> 01:01:08.240 says that you simply eliminate the confirmation email. 01:01:09.100 --> 01:01:13.340 If people want to go subscribe to something intentionally, they go to the site, they put in 01:01:13.340 --> 01:01:15.320 their email address and say, subscribe me. 01:01:15.320 --> 01:01:21.520 Well, instead of sending a confirmation to the user, let the user go back on their own, 01:01:22.100 --> 01:01:28.140 send a follow-up email to the server again from their email address and let them confirm 01:01:28.140 --> 01:01:29.220 themselves. 01:01:29.680 --> 01:01:35.460 Put the directions on, excuse me, on the webpage that say, click here, step one, click here to 01:01:35.460 --> 01:01:36.640 subscribe with your email address. 01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:41.600 Step two, send an email to verify at whatever to verify it. 01:01:41.600 --> 01:01:46.020 So that way it doesn't send any email messages out and fixes the problem. 01:01:46.180 --> 01:01:51.020 Now, yes, that's a solution, but everybody has to do that. 01:01:51.960 --> 01:01:55.380 Everybody in the world has to do that and follow that logic for that to work. 01:01:56.360 --> 01:02:01.440 Obviously, if 50% of the websites do that, the other 50% that aren't could still be used 01:02:01.440 --> 01:02:01.780 for this. 01:02:01.780 --> 01:02:11.440 So, unless it's globally accepted, that's going to be very, very, very tough to defeat. 01:02:11.600 --> 01:02:15.640 I think it's going to be around and I think you're going to see a lot of them in the year 01:02:15.640 --> 01:02:16.740 2004, definitely. 01:02:16.860 --> 01:02:18.040 I think you're going to read about this. 01:02:18.720 --> 01:02:18.900 Yeah. 01:02:19.060 --> 01:02:20.600 Email cluster bombs. 01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:21.920 That's the buzzword. 01:02:22.620 --> 01:02:25.540 They love tying the word bombs to the word hacker. 01:02:25.700 --> 01:02:26.220 They love it. 01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:29.600 So, who am I to question? 01:02:29.700 --> 01:02:31.040 I might as well just go along with it, right? 01:02:31.040 --> 01:02:31.620 There you go. 01:02:32.440 --> 01:02:32.780 All right. 01:02:32.940 --> 01:02:36.560 But, yes, like you said, I think we are out of time. 01:02:36.820 --> 01:02:40.500 So, let's wrap it up here. 01:02:40.660 --> 01:02:45.920 I know, first of all, this is the week for 2600 meetings. 01:02:45.980 --> 01:02:46.540 Am I correct? 01:02:46.840 --> 01:02:47.760 Yes, you are correct. 01:02:48.280 --> 01:02:51.840 And this is actually going to be the first meeting of 2004. 01:02:51.920 --> 01:02:55.880 Like I said, 2004, January 2nd, 2004, your 2600 meetings. 01:02:56.780 --> 01:02:58.640 Check and make sure yours is still on. 01:02:58.640 --> 01:03:03.100 And since it is on the 2nd, people may still be out of town. 01:03:03.220 --> 01:03:04.420 They may still be hungover. 01:03:04.540 --> 01:03:05.940 They may still be whatever. 01:03:06.300 --> 01:03:07.780 And it may have been postponed a week. 01:03:07.860 --> 01:03:09.440 It may be skipping this muscle check. 01:03:09.920 --> 01:03:11.540 And make sure that yours is still on. 01:03:11.600 --> 01:03:12.200 Mine is. 01:03:12.260 --> 01:03:13.720 So, I will be going this week. 01:03:13.720 --> 01:03:19.940 And since it is 2004, I guess this is as good a time as any to wish everyone a Happy New Year. 01:03:20.720 --> 01:03:21.200 Uh-oh. 01:03:21.300 --> 01:03:23.680 So, Happy New Year from Binary Revolution Radio. 01:03:23.680 --> 01:03:36.900 Um, and for my shout-outs, I'm going to shout-out our good friend Nick84, who, um, is, boy, really been tied up with school and a lot of stuff lately. 01:03:37.040 --> 01:03:42.100 But still, somehow, managed to rewrite his content management system. 01:03:42.760 --> 01:03:43.780 Wrote it himself. 01:03:43.900 --> 01:03:46.900 He didn't, you know, put on some other canned thing. 01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:47.740 He wrote one himself. 01:03:47.740 --> 01:03:53.000 So, look for updates to Root Secure, um, soon after the new year. 01:03:53.240 --> 01:03:57.600 I think he's planning on launching it on January 1st, or sometime soon thereafter. 01:03:57.840 --> 01:03:59.760 So, he gets my shout-outs this week. 01:03:59.860 --> 01:04:01.440 Mute, did you have any, uh, shouts? 01:04:01.960 --> 01:04:07.160 No, um, I thought I had some at the beginning of the, uh, the show, but I forgot them all. 01:04:07.460 --> 01:04:08.320 Ha, ha, ha, ha. 01:04:08.420 --> 01:04:17.440 Well, um, if you, uh, want to contact us, radio at binrev.com, or if you want to contact Mute directly, 01:04:17.740 --> 01:04:20.340 mute at oldskoolphreak.com. 01:04:20.640 --> 01:04:27.940 Okay, and our closing music is, I got this from a Flash animation I found on the web that 01:04:27.940 --> 01:04:30.920 I thought was funny, so I went out and found the MP3 of it. 01:04:31.020 --> 01:04:37.300 It is Group X, and the song is called Mario Twins, and that does it. 01:04:37.300 --> 01:04:40.860 So, Mute, uh, thank you for being back on the show. 01:04:41.000 --> 01:04:44.640 I know you've been tied up with school, and you had the whole Christmas holidays. 01:04:44.780 --> 01:04:46.180 Merry Christmas to you, belated. 01:04:46.320 --> 01:04:47.060 Happy New Year. 01:04:47.060 --> 01:04:47.340 Thank you, thank you. 01:04:47.340 --> 01:04:52.040 Glad to have you back on the show, and, um, next time you get a break, make sure you 01:04:52.040 --> 01:04:52.440 let me know. 01:04:52.440 --> 01:04:52.760 I'll be back. 01:04:53.020 --> 01:04:57.340 And, um, definitely after the school year, but then you're going to bolt off to, do you 01:04:57.340 --> 01:04:58.220 want to make, is it official? 01:04:58.320 --> 01:04:58.860 Do you want to say? 01:04:58.900 --> 01:05:00.460 No, it's, it's, it's Notre Dame. 01:05:00.700 --> 01:05:01.940 You're going to Notre Dame. 01:05:02.240 --> 01:05:02.480 Yeah. 01:05:03.180 --> 01:05:03.540 Congratulations. 01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:04.200 Congratulations. 01:05:04.200 --> 01:05:04.320 Congratulations. 01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:06.620 You got accepted everywhere that you submitted anyway. 01:05:06.780 --> 01:05:10.600 Yeah, so, I mean, and it's dual predicted, you know, dual, we got to, we got to reach 01:05:10.600 --> 01:05:15.080 back into when I was in Radio Freak America, and he said, I think he said this on air, 01:05:15.080 --> 01:05:18.260 I don't know if he said it, I remember he told me a bunch of times, like, you, you, ever 01:05:18.260 --> 01:05:21.500 you apply, you're going to get in, and, you know, it was true. 01:05:21.500 --> 01:05:25.620 I said the same thing, I knew, yeah, I knew, absolutely, you're, the world is your oyster, 01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:27.860 Mute, the world is your oyster. 01:05:28.740 --> 01:05:32.220 So, all right, go to Notre Dame, put the honeys on lockdown. 01:05:32.540 --> 01:05:33.700 Oh, there they are. 01:05:33.900 --> 01:05:37.620 Put the honeys on lockdown, see if you can hook up the football team, man, what's up with 01:05:37.620 --> 01:05:38.000 that? 01:05:38.760 --> 01:05:39.900 Yeah, they're, they're slacking. 01:05:40.040 --> 01:05:44.060 Yeah, they're, they fell off, man, Notre Dame, football, losing, come on, man, you got 01:05:44.060 --> 01:05:44.780 to do something about that. 01:05:44.780 --> 01:05:46.940 I'm expecting big things from you at college, man. 01:05:46.940 --> 01:05:47.260 Oh. 01:05:47.540 --> 01:05:53.680 Big things, on a roll, rolling in the honeys, mow money, mow money, you're going to be 01:05:53.680 --> 01:05:54.480 hooking it up, right? 01:05:54.620 --> 01:05:56.480 Oh, without a, without a doubt. 01:05:56.540 --> 01:05:59.740 You also got, you also got to bring me up to Notre Dame, man, you got to bring me up 01:05:59.740 --> 01:06:02.020 there for a visit so I can check out some of the hoes. 01:06:02.260 --> 01:06:02.560 Oh. 01:06:03.260 --> 01:06:08.660 And, uh, no, seriously though, congratulations, it is very cool that you get into something 01:06:08.660 --> 01:06:12.160 like that, and make the best of it, man, don't worry about the show, anytime you get 01:06:12.160 --> 01:06:14.200 a break, we'll put you in here as much as we can. 01:06:14.200 --> 01:06:19.940 So, that's it for me, um, you know what, all you, I'm not even going to interrupt, why 01:06:19.940 --> 01:06:22.400 don't you close out the show, and then we'll go to the closing music. 01:06:22.600 --> 01:06:28.340 All right, time to bust up this, uh, 2K3, next year we got, you know, Hope 2004, hope 01:06:28.340 --> 01:06:32.980 to all see you there, so, I'm going to see you right back on this hack time, same hack 01:06:32.980 --> 01:06:33.440 channel. 01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:34.300 Late. 01:06:35.300 --> 01:06:36.080 Hey, Splade. 01:06:36.400 --> 01:06:37.440 Shiggity, shiggity, shwell. 01:06:37.660 --> 01:06:38.420 Guess what, idiot? 01:06:38.580 --> 01:06:39.380 What you did today? 01:06:39.560 --> 01:06:39.880 Uh. 01:06:40.460 --> 01:06:42.400 Hey, I got a new Super 88 system. 01:06:42.520 --> 01:06:43.040 You did not. 01:06:43.040 --> 01:06:52.220 I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it, I got it, you don't, shut 01:06:52.220 --> 01:06:52.400 up. 01:06:52.500 --> 01:06:53.000 God damn. 01:06:53.120 --> 01:06:53.740 Hey, guess what? 01:06:53.840 --> 01:06:54.080 What? 01:06:54.140 --> 01:06:54.900 It has new game. 01:06:55.360 --> 01:06:55.760 What game? 01:06:55.780 --> 01:06:59.340 I want to play it, it is called Mario Twins, they look the same. 01:06:59.640 --> 01:07:00.040 Wow. 01:07:01.020 --> 01:07:01.900 Good God. 01:07:02.080 --> 01:07:02.460 I'm ready. 01:07:02.460 --> 01:07:05.120 They look so God same, like the same person. 01:07:05.500 --> 01:07:07.480 I would say to them, you want ice cream cone? 01:07:07.480 --> 01:07:08.660 Well, both of them say yes. 01:07:09.020 --> 01:07:09.980 How in the hell? 01:07:10.120 --> 01:07:11.620 They are twins, that's why. 01:07:12.180 --> 01:07:13.280 Hey, let's play it, ready? 01:07:13.340 --> 01:07:13.620 Alright. 01:07:14.040 --> 01:07:14.420 Do it. 01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:16.040 There it goes. 01:07:16.040 --> 01:07:23.440 Get, get, get, get. 01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:36.460 Get, get, get. 01:07:36.460 --> 01:07:45.040 Get, get. 01:07:49.580 --> 01:07:50.540 Get. 01:07:50.780 --> 01:07:55.340 How in the階段? 01:07:55.340 --> 01:07:57.820 Got it. 01:08:00.260 --> 01:08:01.480 Bye. 01:08:01.480 --> 01:08:31.460 We'll be right back. 01:08:31.480 --> 01:09:01.460 We'll be right back. 01:09:01.480 --> 01:09:31.460 We'll be right back. 01:09:31.480 --> 01:10:01.460 We'll be right back. 01:10:01.480 --> 01:10:31.460 We'll be right back. 01:10:31.460 --> 01:10:33.140 All right, let's quit this game. 01:10:33.140 --> 01:10:33.760 Beep.