This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers
I see in binary, I speak source code
Step on my toes, I'll post a million game pegs of you in a fag pose
In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho
Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold
I was a dick with my 56
Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable
On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo
On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero
In a flash, I'll school you on burning dream packs
You need some ISO? Let me do my hard drive rifle
Our exchange you could never stifle
In a digital hug, you just caught the love bug
I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z
Your CG, it's all gonna be free
Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely
You feel that rattling in your bones?
When I tell you we just hacked out Jones
And NASDAQ leaves you flat on your back
Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack
This is dedicated to the hackers and the cruisers
Serial codes, source codes, ISOs, RANs, SIFs, SIFs
This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack
Welcome to Binary Revolution Radio
Episode 30
Coming to you this day in history
Or in future actually as we record this
But you know what I mean
January 27th, 2004
I am StankDawg
And I am joined by our good friend Rax
Back for another episode
Welcome to you my friend
Thanks man, good to be back
And we are going to jump in
To our housekeeping feedback section
Because we got a lot of good, good stuff this time
I'm gonna jump right into the first one
Cause it's a follow up from last week's episode
And actually we've had a running topic
That we've been doing for the past
Gosh, three or four episodes
Of 101 things to save the internet
Ways to save the internet
And last week
Both, in theory and I
Were both kind of stumped
As to what one of these was referring to
Because we never heard of it
So I got an email from a couple people
But I got one
And actually I had the real name
And you know we don't give that out on the air
But somebody from the west side
Basically explaining to us
Which I am in turn explaining to the listeners
About Fandango
We had never heard of Fandango
Before being on the east side
We had movie phone
And I never heard of Fandango
We assumed it was something related
Or similar to movie phone
But he informs us
Quote
Fandango is an online ticket ordering service
That allows one to print movie tickets at home
And walk directly into the theater
By passing lines
The service charge costs one buck
All the theaters
AMC, Edwards, Century, blah blah blah
Here on the west coast
Have Fandango ads during the movie previews
Featuring annoying paper bag puppets
Now are you familiar with Fandango?
No, no
We don't have it here in Arizona
We have movie phone
But you know I gotta tell you
It's just
Charging you an extra buck
I know
To do that
It's just
You know it's just another revenue source for them
It's like I was
I'm gonna buy some tickets for a show here
A concert
And through Ticketmaster
And if you wanted to pay the
You know get them online
Rather you can pick them up at Will Call
They had some kind of electronic service charge
Already like an extra five bucks per ticket
And to email them to you
They were gonna charge like an extra two bucks
Alright
How much does it cost
To send those electrons?
Do they really need to charge a buck
For that extra convenience?
I don't think so
No
I mean that's
We all know what a rip off
And they're famous for it
Ticketmaster
And those type things
They're famous for those service charges
And everybody hates them because of that
But hey
Where else are you gonna go for tickets?
Well you know what you do
Is you walk inside the lobby of the thing
And they have these little kiosks there
And you put in your piece of plastic
And you swipe it
And you pick it up there
And there's no line
Yep
There you go
The movie theater that I normally go to
Let's see
I think it is Movie Co
That owns it
Frankly I don't go a whole lot
But I'm pretty sure
As a matter of fact
I'm almost positive it's Movie Co
They have touch screen things
Like you said
You slide your card in
And you can buy the tickets right there
But you can also go online
I think to MovieCo.com
Gosh
I hope I didn't turn this into a commercial for them
You can go online
And you can do the same thing
You can order online with a credit card
And print the ticket out
And same thing
You can bypass the line
But I mean
You pay just the cost of the ticket
There's no additional charge or anything
Yeah
I mean that's BS
When they start doing that kind of convenience charge
You know
Yeah it's kind of awkward
To walk in with this big piece of paper though
But you know
And actually
You know what
They did something that I did like
They just started this very recently
The buying tickets online
Has been going on for a while
And printing it
But they actually started
A separate line
For people who print their tickets off online
Inside of the theater
Not outside to buy them
But once you get inside
Like if you get there early
For Lord of the Rings
Or one of the big movies
Which is the last thing I saw
You have to wait in line
To then get in the theater
So you want to get there early
To try to get a good seat and all
If you printed it off yourself
They let you go straight to the front of the line
For doing that
As a reward I guess
If you want to think of it like that
Now that's cool
That plus not charging you extra for that
That's good
That's worthwhile
Yeah I like that
I do like that about them
That's like
You know all these other things too
People are doing that
And trying to save them money
Making more money
A lot of the banks and credit cards
And they want you to sign up
For electronic statements
Well I don't do that
Because you know
If there's no benefit to me
That saves them money
And I'm already paying them
A boatload of money anyway
To handle my finances
But my credit union
They said if you have direct deposit
And you sign up for e-statements
They'll give you free bill pay
That's worth it
You know so
Note to the marketing people out there
If you're going to do something like that
Yeah technology is great
We like technology
But we're not stupid
Exactly
Which it costs for those electrons
So you know
Don't try to snow something over on us
And turn it into a profit center for you
Right
And that's exactly what happened to me
I refinanced my home
About a year or so ago
Because the old company I had
Which was
Oh let me share with you
Because they sucked
It was
What were they called
Chase Manhattan Mortgage
Big credit card company also
But that's what they would do
If I wanted to set up
Automatic payments
Automatic deductions
Where I give them
My checking account
Stuff like that
Which obviously
Makes it much easier for them
They save money
They get their money guaranteed
It's all good things for them
They actually wanted to charge me
A fee to do that
Yeah
Like how crazy is that
That just blew my mind
So of course I said
Heck no
And didn't bother with it
And refinanced with a new company
And that's one of the first things
I asked them
Was at the very beginning
I'm like listen
Here's the problem I had
With the other company
I said with you all
Can I set it up like that
And if so
What is the charge
And their quote was
We will never charge you
To pay your bill
Like well my god
Is that really that much to ask
Yeah
It's sad that that happens sometimes
But anyway
So yeah
That's
I'd never heard of that before
So now that clarifies
We assumed it was something like that
But the other thing is
If MovieCo is doing this on their own
Why are these people outsourcing it
To this Fandango company
And stuff
To order online
And charge an extra buck for it
And I would imagine
Some theaters out in the big cities
And stuff
Might be $10, $11 tickets already
Oh yeah
You know
Because they're like $8.50
I've heard that the other day
East Coast, New York
And I guess they're kind of used to that
But here
Just went to the movie last night
It was $8.50 ahead for adults
Yeah same here
So
You know
When they start
Getting up around there
It's just crazy
Yeah
And you know
You go with a date
That's $20 right there
And tickets
Oh then you get the
You know
Then you get the
You know
55 gallon drum of Pepsi
That's you know
$10 and all that other stuff
Yeah
I don't know
I don't know if you have this
But the same theater
I was talking about
I don't know if this is
Specific to ours
Or if this is common
But the first time
I'd ever seen it was
They have an upstairs section
That costs more to get into
Do you have anything like that
No
We have a balcony section
That's
I think it's called
The Premier Theaters
Or something like that
Basically it's the same
Auditorium that everyone else is
But it's a balcony up top
With luxurious plush seats
Where you can stretch back
And they're not
You know
You're not crammed
All up with everybody else
You can kick back
Relax
I think it's like
$15
$18
Somewhere along those lines
Just to get in up there
Each
But you get valet parking
Which I guess if you're lazy
I don't know
Well and the valets
Still probably expect you
To sip though
Exactly
So you got money
On top of that
What they do give you
Is you get free popcorn
Yeah big deal
That's the cheapest thing
They make
It costs them a nickel
To make a whole bucket
Full of popcorn
But they don't give you
A free drink
So you eat all that popcorn
And of course you're thirsty
With all that salty popcorn
So you end up
Getting that anyway
And then on top of that
They have a theater
Supposedly a
Exclusive
I'm sorry
Not a theater
A restaurant
An exclusive restaurant
Up there as well
That you can't even access
And get into
To order food
Unless you
Have purchased tickets
To see a movie
Right
So it's kind of
An exclusive club type thing
And I've heard
The food isn't all that great
And it's overpriced as well
So
Well I had heard about
Trying to get it back
To technology
Had heard about something
I think it was in
San Antonio Texas
Maybe one of the listeners
Can write back
And let us know
But
Where they had
Wi-Fi in the theater
Remember reading about that
No I've never heard of that
That would be interesting
Yeah they had
Wi-Fi stuff
Going at the same time
I don't know why
You'd want to go to a movie
And check your email
Or do IMing
Or something
But
I guess it's better
Than your pager
Going off in the middle
Of the movie
Or your cell phone
So if anyone's heard
Anything about that
Write in
And let us know
Yeah
Radio at
BinRev.com
And I do know
That ours has a daycare center
With computers networked in it
With little games
For the little kids
And stuff
Okay
Anyway
Yes
Back to technology
Let's go on to another email
First of all
Thank you for that one
Person whose name
I can't read on the air
I got another email
From a new listener
Named Cessna
Who goes by Cessna
And he says
Quote
Hi
First off
I'd like to say
That I love the show
You provide so much
Information on your show
I thoroughly enjoy
Listening to it
It has helped me
Understand the goings on
In some of my
Novell classes
I'm taking an
Associates in
Telecommunications
Systems Management
The networking
Career path
It gets hard at times
But I crave learning
About it
I love hearing that
Because
That's one thing
That's just a
Trade of hackers
You always crave
Learning
You always crave
Knowledge
And it's just
It can't be
It's unsatiable
And it continues
Throughout life
In my opinion
So I understand
What he says by that
It goes on
It says
I found out about
Your show
Through Dual Parallel
Sight
And I found out
About Dual Sight
Through 2600 Magazine
I also listen to
In the Now
Off the Hook
And Default Radio
All of these shows
Are great as well
Yes they are
I recently sent you
Money via PayPal
For the first two
Issues of your magazine
Can't wait till I get them
I heard you talk about
How Dual and Bland
Are going to the
Next Hope conference
I'm planning on
Attending as well
Is there going to be
A Ben Rav
Slash Radio Freak
America group
Going
Also are you guys
Planning on staying
At the Hotel Pennsylvania
I've never been to a conference
It was just one
Looking for some hints
On what to expect
And everything
Again thanks for doing
What you do
Keep up the good work
P.S.
I downloaded the
Distributed.net program
But never received
A welcome email
And actually you won't
Just as a side note
To that
You won't receive
A welcome email
Whatever email
You registered with
Go to
Distributed.net
And do a search
For yourself
And you will find
Yourself in the stats
A couple days
After you've uploaded
And you can go to a page
Where you set up
Your account
Of whether you want email
You can have them
Send you an email
With password
At yada yada yada
So it's not going to
Automatically send you
Anything
Because the potential is
You could spam people
By setting up accounts
With fake emails
But we won't go into that
So thanks a lot
And take care
He says
And I
First of all
Thank you very much
For the kind words
I love
Hearing from new listeners
I'm glad that
Word on the show
Is spreading out there
Every time we get
New listeners
Or an email
From a new listener
I enjoy it very much
And on behalf of
Dual and everybody else
Thank you for listening
I hope we can keep
Bringing you good information
And information
And entertainment
I hope a little bit
In there as well
Now as far as
Hope 5
The 5th hope
H2K4
Whatever it's called
Hope 5
I'm going with for now
We don't have final plans
We don't know for sure
What we're doing
Because it is still
A little ways off
But we are
Talking about it now
And organizing
What we're going to do
We don't know
If we're going to be
Doing any kind of
Special events
Bring magazines
I assume we'll try
To bring some magazines
To pimp them there
Presentations
I don't know what all
We're going to be doing
Exactly
But it looks like
All DDP members
Are going
All 8 of us
Will probably be there
If we can at all
Help it
But not only us
But several members
Of the forums
Everybody in the doghouse
Has been
There's been 2 or 3 threads
Of people saying
That they're going to
Probably go as well
So there's going to be
A lot of people
That we know
And recognize there
So you can definitely
Keep an eye out
And I'm sure you'll
Bump into somebody there
But I do have to admit
Personally
I've never been to
A conference either
And we talked about
That before
So Rax
I'm going to defer this
To you
To kind of talk about
The atmosphere in general
And kind of what to expect
For someone going
For their first time
Okay
Well
I'm reminded of
Abdul actually pointed this out
He found the article
There was a columnist
By the name of Dave Barry
Who's a well known
Newspaper columnist
Or whatever
Kind of humor columnist
Or humorist
Or whatever
But he was talking about
Hotel Pennsylvania
And how bad it was
And that the mattresses
Felt like they were
Filled with dead squid
And all this other stuff
And he really wasn't
He really wasn't
Why a kid was
As long as it doesn't
Smell like dead squid
It was a pretty
Wild experience
First of all
This hotel Pennsylvania
Is right downtown Manhattan
Right across from
Madison Square Garden
And you might want to
Ask your parents
Or your grandparents
About this
But there was a song
Called Pennsylvania
65000
Like the big band era
Sure
Well that was about
This hotel
And they had their own
You know exchange
It was
They used to dial
On phones
You like dial PE
Look up whatever
Those are
And then dial
The rest of the number
So it was
Pennsylvania 65000
Well that's still
The number
For this hotel
Pennsylvania
So it was
You know
A big huge thing
And whatever
But that was
Probably like
Back in the big band era
It's
I won't say it's a dive
But it's
I've stayed in better
Okay
I'm not talking
Five star
Four star
Three star
I've stayed in better
You know
Motel 6
Oh really
It was not
You know
So don't go there
Looking for
You know
A huge experience
In the hotel
But the atmosphere
Of the conference
Is phenomenal
There's people there
I mean you've got
Anytime you go to
Any one of these conferences
There are 2600 meetings
And it's really interesting
Just to people watch
And see the diverse
Group of people
That are there
I mean you literally
Have the pasty face
Geek wannabes
You know
With the spiked
Green mohawk hair
And you know
Black leather
Everything
To you know
To the feds
To you know
Young kids
I mean there was
There were some kids
There was about 14
Their moms or dads
Were kind of with them
But you know
Sitting off a far enough
Distance away
And it's a really
Interesting
Really diverse
Group of people
That you'll meet there
I like the fact
By the way
That the kid would be
There
Their parents would come
I think that's great
I really like that
Yeah
I mean we even had
That at our 2600
Meeting here in Phoenix
Is that
You know
Some kid came
And his folks
Were into it
I ended up talking
To him later
Like the dad
Worked for Intel
So they were
And he was kind of
Interested in the
Presentation that I was
Doing too
But anyway
That's another story
But yeah
It's cool
You know
So rather than
You know
Just the knee jerk
Reaction that some
Parents may have
Oh it's all bad
And whatever else
And that
Right
To have an open
Mind about it
But the conferences
It was huge
The second floor
They had the whole
Retro computing area
And all that
Matter of fact
If you go to
Oldschoolfreak.com
And forget whatever
Section there
You'll see the
Little video
Dual and racks
Do H2K2
And you can kind of
Get a little feel
About what things
Were like there
Lots of people
Very crowded
It'll probably be
Even larger this time
So you know
You have to be
A little bit patient
With people
You may not be able
To get in to see
Everything that you
Want to see
Again because
Just the nature
Of these things
Is such that
You know
More and more
People come
They tell their
Friends
Oh what a good
Time it was
And they bring
More people
So it may
Be hard to get
In to see
Some of the stuff
It's definitely
Worth it
The quality
Of the presentations
Vary because
You know
Hey anyone can
Volunteer to
Make a proposal
For doing a presentation
Some were very good
Some were outstanding
Some were really
Mediocre
But you know
Hey what can you say
It's all
You know
And it's all
What's interesting
To you
Like low powered
FM
You know
Pirate radio station
Kind of thing
Wasn't really my cup of tea
Dual got off on it
You know
So it's
There's really
A lot of stuff
Going on
They had two rooms
I think going on
Simultaneously
And I made the
I won't say it's a mistake
But I volunteered
To work on the video crew
Last time
And I got to see
Pretty much everything
That was going on
In the big room
But I didn't get much
Didn't get to go out
Much and see much
Of the city
Or see what's going on
In the other rooms
And all that
But if you're inclined
To volunteer
I'm sure Emanuel
Will put out a call
For volunteers as well
It's a lot of fun
It was a lot of work
For me as well
But it can be a lot
Of fun as well
Well in regards
To the hotel
Are there other
Options for hotels
Nearby
Walking distance
There probably are
I mean you know
It's downtown Manhattan
I wouldn't expect you
To know them offhand
But that's probably
An option right
That's probably an option
My opinion though
Always with going
To those things
I mean this is actually
I think it's better
To stay in the conference hotel
Because you know
You go and you do the thing
They have like videos
Showing at night
You know they're playing
All these hacker videos
And stuff
And freedom downtime
And you know
All these other little
Documentary things
And all that
That get played at night
You know so some
Of the stuff
Is going on
To like you know
2, 3 in the morning
That you can go crash
Also the other good news
Is that it doesn't
You know it doesn't
Start out like
At 7 o'clock
It's like 9 o'clock
Or 10 o'clock
Or whatever
Because you know
Everyone's up all night
You know
Hacking, drinking
Partying, doing whatever
And they don't want to
Get started too early
In the morning
But there will definitely
Be some other hotels
Around
You know
There will be
Manhattan in the summer
I don't guarantee
What price
I think it was
I think it was like
75 bucks a night
For the hotel
As well
It was the conference special
So if anyone's out there
Is interested in going
Keep an eye on
2600.com
And my suggestion
To you would be
If you plan on going
Register as soon as
They put the info out
Yeah
I think that's exactly
What I'm going to do
And we got to talk about
Like I said earlier
We haven't worked out
Our logistics
Maybe trying to get
A couple of joining rooms
Yeah that'd be cool
Something like that
And splitting some rooms
Trying to eat up the cost
As best we can
Now I don't know
If they had
The rooms were actually
Pretty large
We had dual beds
But I don't know
If they let
You know
If you can have more people
Crashing in the room
Than
I don't know
If you can just like
Bring a sleeping bag
And crash on the floor
In the hotel room
Or not
But that'd be one thing
To check into
Yeah and well
And what are they
Going to do
Police every room
For something like that
Yeah that's true
Even how they're
Really going to find out
Exactly
You'd have to coordinate
With you know
If you only get
Two pass keys
For the room
You know
The card key things
You'd have to coordinate
With someone else
Right
But I'm sure
Something like that
Could be worked out
See and it also
Varies too
Like
Stank you're just
Going to have to
Like fly up the coast
Me I'm going to have
To fly from Arizona
So that's like a
You know
Five and a half hour flight
So you know
That's a little bit
Bigger issue
Dollar wise
Believe it or not
It's probably going to be
A good length flight
For me also
Being so far south
But yeah
I've already kind of
Talked to a couple guys
Decoder and Epiphany
And stuff like that
About finding some place
To meet up
And possibly meeting
At the airport
Or something like that
Yeah
So working out
Some of those logistics
As we speak
But see at the same time
So is 2600
They haven't announced
The show special
Or rates
Special rates
Right
And all that kind of
Good stuff
So we're all working on it
As we go along
Yep
So I hope to see
Everybody there
Now we have
Another email
We had a lot of
Good feedback this time
I like getting feedback
It gives me a lot
Of good stuff
I got another email
From our good friend
Pixel Fiend
He followed up
On last episode
We had
We talked about
An article
And I'm not sure
If you've caught up
To the last episode
Or not
But I'll give you
The short version
There was an article
From the Associated Press
I saw it in my paper
About
Well the very short version
Is how
Internet mapping services
Could be used
For bad things
And there was
One young lady
They interviewed
In there
Who was just
Shocked
And dumbfounded
That her personal
Information
Like address
And phone number
Was available
On the internet
We talked about
How silly
That might be
That in this day
And age
Somebody is surprised
By such a thing
But
He goes on
To remind us
That
Not only that
But she'd probably
Have a heart attack
If she realized
The satellite photography
That's also available
On there
On some of the
Mapping sites
That can actually
Pinpoint
Give you precise
Details and photographs
Of your backyard
Including the objects
Like a picnic table
Or anything else
That may be out there
Hey you may have been
Out there
When they took the picture
For all you know
And laying in your backyard
Working on your tan
Exactly
A natural
Hopefully not
So yeah
Luckily
See I'm sure
The author probably
Intentionally
Left that out
For you know
Didn't want to scare
The poor girl
I'm sure that's
Probably the reason
She did it
I'm sure of that
Right
I actually remember
A story last
I think it was
Last summer
About
Some guy
You know
Got dumped
By his girlfriend
Or whatever
And he went to
This is even
More scary
But he went to
You know
One of those
Online find your
Long lost
You know
Adopted father
Or whatever
Kind of sites
Right
And you know
Paid like the
20 bucks
Or whatever
Got the information
About where this
Girl was living
You know
Paid you know
Like 20 bucks
Or something like that
And then
Got some information
About that
Contacted her there
She changed her
Phone number
Then he you know
Went back
Paid more money
To this place
To you know
Do some more
Searching
Find out where
She worked
And in part of it
And this is interesting
And I think that
It's a little bit
Of social engineering
But this you know
Quote unquote
Detective agency
Online or whatever
You want to call it
Had there was
Some other gal
That posed as
You know
Someone from
The victim's bank
This woman
That was being stalked
So the
Online web company
Had a
Subcontractor
Had some other
Person
A woman
We can talk about
That in a second
Call
Do a little bit
Of social engineering
To find out where
The victim
Worked at
And the
The wacko
Ex-boyfriend
Slash stalker
You know
Paid for all
And totally
Paid you know
Like about
90 bucks
Or something
To get all
This information
Shows a better
Place of work
Blows her away
Then blows
His head off
And the company
Is saying hey
We have no
Responsibility
We can't
Be held
Liable for what
People do
With this stuff
But I mean
When they're
Alright let's face it
I've said it before
I'll say it again
You know
Social engineering
Is a nice euphemism
For lying
Just like urban
Explorations
A nice euphemism
For trespassing
But when they're
Going to that
Extent
Where they're
You know
Calling up
Social engineering
Lying to someone
On the phone
And they're getting
That information
Under false pretextes
I'm sorry
You know
There's a dual
Edged sword to
Everything
And I think
You said it
Last week
To their stank
That you know
All this information
Is a tool
And it's how
You choose to use it
Right
That matters
Which is why
I'm going to have
To disagree with you
On social engineering
Being a fancy word
For lying
Yes
There is lying
Involved sometimes
But not always
It's not a necessity
Or a requirement
And I've actually
Started on an article
Which was going to be
My next Hacking 101 article
That was going to be
It was entitled
Social engineering
But the subtitle was
How to be a social engineer
Without sacrificing integrity
You don't have to lie
Sometimes you do
Sometimes you cross a line
But that's all on your choice
And your decision
Well give me an example
By proper choice of words
For example
You can properly
Choose your words
To avoid answering questions
You don't have to lie
But for example
I'd like to find out
This woman's place of business
This woman's place of work
Okay sir
Can I ask
Are you calling from
The business in question
My answer would be
I don't have to come out
And lie and say
Yes I'm calling from
Such and such
I can say
Now listen
Would I bother calling you
If I wasn't
See I'm not exact
I know what you're saying
The intent is definitely the same
I would not argue that
But by choice of words
You can kind of
And you may
That's a spur of the moment example
Right
So
But you can choose your words
Carefully
To avoid coming out
And directly lying
Let me give you a famous quote
That I think
Will kind of sum up
Your position on this
Okay
It was by a former president
Of the United States
It just depends on
What your definition of
Is is
Well
No
Come on
We're getting into
Semantics here
No
Much as I
I don't like being
Associated with that
I will
I don't
Yeah
Anyway
Bad example
But there are
There are occasions
When you
You know frankly
Sometimes
Social engineering
Can be as simple
As
Coming out
And asking a question
What about this
What if I simply
Come out
I call up a site
And I say
Listen
I'm doing research
For an article
On your security practices
I'm not lying
I am doing research
On an article
But I just
Neglect to leave out
That it's an article
For a hacking magazine
Is that
Social engineering
And B
Is that wrong
Well I'm not going to get into
Right and wrong
Is that lying
Is that
Deceiving
If you're
It depends
Again
You say by your choice of words
You know
You're leading the other person
To believe
Something you want them to believe
Which is completely truthful
I'm writing an article
On your security practices
Is that true or not true
If I came out
And said
I'm writing an article
For a hacking magazine
About weaknesses
In your security
They're not going to give me
What I want
I mean
That's
Pretty
Pretty much assured
Correct
But by choosing
My words carefully
As part of the social
I consider this
Part of the social
Engineering process
By choosing your words
Carefully
And giving just enough
Information
To get what you want
You can be completely honest
And absolutely
Get the same information
Without completely
Selling your soul
I'm writing an article
I agree with it
Completely honest
Because
You know
That you're leading them
You're not saying
I'm doing this
For a hacking magazine
You're leading them
To believe
You're doing it
For something else
So by
By your omission
By your deliberate omission
I wouldn't agree
That you're being
Completely honest
Well
I'm being as honest
As necessary
That's different
Than being completely honest
Well
I didn't lie
No
But you weren't
Completely honest either
So what's your
Definition of is
Yeah
Well
No
It's not like that
At all
See
You know
The public perception
When you mention
The word hacker
See
I don't think
There's anything
Wrong with saying
I'm writing an article
For a hacking magazine
I don't think
That should be
A bad question
To ask
But reality
Tells us otherwise
Let's keep reality
In this
Discussion
You know
The reality
Is if you ask
It like that
Even though
It's still harmless
It's still about
Information and learning
I don't think
There should be
Anything wrong with that
But I know
Damn good and well
That if I do
Say that word
That I'm not
Going to get
That information
They're going to
Make assumptions
On me
False assumptions
On me
And what I'm going
To do with that
Information
So why should
I come out
And give this
Extra information
So I don't think
It's semantics
Of what is
And what isn't
I think it's
What they perceive
And what I perceive
And instead of
Confusing the two
And let them
Being led
By their false
Ideas
And false
Predeterminations
Of what a hacker is
Why should I
Let that interfere
Let's just keep it
Out
Open
And talk about
The facts
There's actually
A bigger issue
Relating to this
And I think
It was addressed
Very well
By a t-shirt
Heavily into
T-shirt philosophy
It says
Social engineering
Because there is
No patch for
Human stupidity
If someone calls
You up
And asks
You know
I'm doing a survey
Even if it's true
You know
You can take
Any major university
If someone says
I'm a student
For a
XYZ university
And I'm doing
A thing on
Banking
And I'd like
To know
Who you
Bank with
I'm going
To say
I'm sorry
It's none of your
Business
Goodbye
And there you go
Because then
They call it
The human firewall
That's the weakest link
If you've read
The art of
Disruption
By Mitnick
That's the weakest link
You can talk people
Into giving you
Any kind of information
Passwords
Server names
Whatever
But that's the
Whole larger issue
In relation to that
Anytime anyone
Asks you for something
I don't know
Call me jaded now
In the 21st century
But I'm thinking
What's your motive
Why do you want to know
Right
And I do the same thing
And I agree with that
I agree with 100%
Yep
But
You know
There's a line
That I guess
Each individual
Has to choose
Of
What should be known
What do I need to give
And is there any point
I mean
Why should I
How honest is honest
What's the definition of is
Well
I don't know about that
But yes
How honest is honest
I think that's
A wholly separate
Than what your definition
Of is
What your definition
Of honest is
Is a morals clause
And whether or not
You
Your line is different
From somebody else
Is
That's a verb
Okay
Verbs don't exactly
Have to do with
One verb being different
From another
So I don't see
That's apples and oranges there
In my opinion
Of course
And
And same thing
With urban exploration
Yes
Most of the time
I agree with you
But there are some places
That are public property
And public
Paid for with our tax money
Why should I not be allowed
To go
Exploring
Now if they're marked
No trespassing
Obviously that's a different thing
Okay
Do they have to have
A no trespassing sign
On the Pentagon
Um
No
And that's paid for
With your taxpayers money
But I guarantee you
The places you're not
Supposed to go
And aren't allowed
To go in there
Will be roped off
Have security guards
Metal detectors
And or
No trespassing signs
If they're dumb enough
To depend on a sign
For security though
That's a whole nother issue
Yeah
Well we can get
Into all kinds of
But you know
Things on the app
Yep
An old abandoned
Um
Underpass
Tunnel
Train trestles
Train stations
Something like that
You know
That can be interesting
You can find a lot
Of interesting stuff
Like that
An old
Abandoned
Um
Public building
You know
As long as
It's not posted
Someone
Someone owns
Even if it's
Public building
Well again
We could get
Into a whole
A whole discussion
They had that
On the air
One time
With Duel
So
Yeah I remember
That episode
Yeah
I remember that episode
So yeah
There are some
Some grey areas
Sometimes
But for the most part
I do agree with you
But
I don't know
It's not completely
Black and white
That's all I'm saying
There are sometimes
It's not black and white
Huh
And as much as
You know
All the digital technology
Of ours is binary
The world is
You know
Is not just black and white
There's a myriad
Of shades of grey
Absolutely
And that's basically
What I'm trying to say
Anyway
Boy we got off
On a tangent
On that one
Yeah but it was
A good tangent
That's good stuff
Man
That's good stuff
And we haven't
Even left the housekeeping
I still have another
Let's see
Email
Oh yeah
Pixelphine
I was talking about
Pixelphine
He had another point
In here
About
We also talked about
IPv4
Versus IPv6
And we kind of
Mentioned how we were
Running out of IP addresses
Or they were running
Short anyway
In IPv4
And how IPv6
Was going to change this
We kind of talked about
We didn't know exactly
How many were left
I don't think it's really
A problem of exactly
How many are left
Or pinpointing
Oh there's this many thousand
Or this
You know
I don't think that's
Really necessary
The point is simply
That we're running out
I mean it's definitely
Public knowledge
Everybody knows how
The internet is growing
And how the web
In particular is growing
But the internet
In general is growing
And they're running out
At a rapid pace
So putting an actual number
Of whether we're going to
Run out in five days
Versus seven days
Or six months
Versus nine months
Or whatever it happens to be
I don't think that's the point
It's just simply
That we are running out
And you were mentioning earlier
We were kind of talking
Before the show
And you made a good point
Why don't you explain why
I mean I think everybody
Kind of knows
Why IPv6 is important
But you were saying
About the NAT
Yeah NAT
Network address translation
Is one of the reasons
Probably
I'd say probably
The major reason
That we've not switched
To IPv6 already
Why we have not
Run out of addresses
Already
And I was asking
Stank
You know
How many computers
Do you have hooked
To the NAT
At your crib
You've got like what
Four or five
Five that are active
Right now yeah
And so I've got
About the same here
But I've got
One live IP address
Out to the world
And that network
Address translation
I always kind of
Think of it as a funnel
So yeah
I have these five computers
That have
In the reserved range
I think it's
RFC 1922
Or something like that
But anyway
In that reserved
Ranges
In each class
Of IP address
Class A
Class B
Class C
There's a few others
That we won't talk about
But there are reserved ranges
That are not routed
On the public internet
Sure
The 10 address space
In class A
172.16
192
And then 192.168
Class B
00 through 255.255
So there are groups
Of addresses
That are private
That will never be routed
On the internet
And every time
You have your little
Linksys box
Or whatever
At home
That's connected
To your cable
Or DSL
And you can have
254 hosts
Out on the internet
That's using
Network address translation
So again
Think of it as a funnel
You've got all these things
That are funneling down
To the one IP address
Outside
And if I had to have
Five IP addresses
Here to be on the internet
And Stank had to have
Five IP addresses
And every one of our
Listeners out there
Had to have five IP addresses
We'd be in a whole
Big world of hurt
But because of
Network address translation
We're staving off
You know
Having to do the switch
Right
And that's
That's something else
Because I also
Mentioned the fact
And maybe less or so
Than what you're talking about
But I also mentioned
The fact that dynamic
IP addressing
Grew out of necessity
Or similar necessity
Probably not as grand
A scale
But the simple fact
That an ISP
For example
May have a limited
Number of IPs
That they can't hand out
And that's really
The reason sometimes
They will charge you
If you need a static
IP address
Because what they will do
And obviously
Things have changed
The way cable motors
And you're giving
A given
I forget what the term is
But a more consistent
IP address
For a week at a time
But it used to be
Much shorter time frames
Where you know
You may have
A hundred users
Persistent
Persistent I think
So are they
You may have
A hundred users
On your ISP
But you may only need
Thirty given
IP addresses
At any given time
And as soon as
Somebody hangs up
You release one
And make it available again
Right
So you don't really need
A hundred exactly
I mean potentially
You would if every user
Was on the same time
So that's another
Minor example
But that's just
Another fact of
Of how we have to
Make do
And use what we have
Efficiently
So
There's all kinds
Of other issues
For IPv6
Not just
You know
The address space
But converting over
I mean
Virtually every device
Out there
And like the Cisco
Routers
And that of the world
Have had support
For IPv6
For a while
Right
A lot of places
Have
Microsoft
You can download
You know
A test version
Or whatever
Of an IPv6 stack
But when it gets
Down to it
If you think
Upgrading your
Operating system
Is you know
And then having
Everything work
Is a pain
Well imagine
The underlying
Layer
Layer 3
Of the OSI
Model
Is changed
Is shifted
You're going to
Have everything
Basically you're
Ripping out the
Foundation underneath
Your house
And sticking
Something else
In there
That is better
Than your
Original foundation
But you hope
That everything
Works when you're
Done
Right
So there's
Huge issues
To doing that
And they've
Actually have
Started
Most of the
Places have
Started
Especially in
Europe and Asia
We seem to be
Behind the curve
On this stuff
Over here in
North America
But on PDAs
And cell phones
And that
They just set it
Up and they just
Did IPv6
From the get go
Because you know
Why do something
Old and then have
To change it in
The future
Right
And you know
I have to
I mentioned
Last week too
About what a
Great opportunity
For learning
And hacking
Or however
You want to
Look at it
It is
For assigning
Every device
Out there
Will potentially
Be able to
Have its own
IP address
My five boxes
Will be able
To theoretically
Have an individual
IP address
For each one
That is valid
And shouted
Out to the
Internet
Well I think
I heard it
Said that
Every person
On the planet
Every hair follicle
On their body
Could have a
Separate IP address
I don't know
About all that
That's interesting
I think I heard
Something similar
About like
One IP address
For every square
Foot of land
Anyway
There's a lot
Of comparisons
Like that
Actually
Saito
Who I'm going
To talk about
In a few minutes
He did a
Report
Did some investigation
And crunched
Some numbers
Himself
And came up
With some
Interesting stuff
I'll have to
Touch base with him
And see if I can
Get him back
On the show
Again
I don't want to
Pull him off
Of Hack TV
Though
And actually
You know what
That's a pretty
Good segue
Let's close up
The mailbag
And move on
To our
Personal stuff
Because I do
Want to bring up
A Hack TV update
First of all
Though
I want to
Let everybody
Know that
I am still
Working on
Setting up
The streaming
Media server
I do want
To set up
Rotation
Where people
Can listen
To back
Episodes
Of Ben
Rev Radio
Which will
Be flowing
All day
As well
As RFA
And all
The shows
Mentioned
Earlier
As well
As new
Shows
Like CCCPR
And stuff
Like that
Off the hook
Anything
That's hacking
Related
I want to
Mix into
The rotation
But
I didn't
Have
I was having
Problems
Finding
Some software
So I
Got to
Give thanks
Shout out
To DJ
Mollusk
For helping
Me out
Giving me
The software
I need
I've got
That up
And running
In a test
Environment
Unfortunately
It's not
Really ready
For public
Consumption
Yet
Having a
Problem
Now
With
Well
Without
Going into
A lot
Of a
Detail
With
Bit
Rates
And
Stuff
Like that
And getting
Everything
Converted
To the
Proper
Bit
Rate
For the
Server
That it
Will
Accept
And run
Smoothly
While at
The same
Time
Not
Completely
Sucking
All of
My
Bandwidth
Out
So
I am
Still
Working
On it
As soon
As I
Have
That up
And ready
I'll post
It in
The site
And in
The forums
And make
Sure
Everybody's
Aware
Of it
We're
Still
Going to
Go on
Rant
Radio
That's
Not
Going
To
Change
But
We'll
Just
Probably
Be
Streaming
The
Show
Live
On
Two
Stations
It'll
Be
Kind
Of
A
Backup
Since
I
Had
Some
Problems
With
Rant
Radio
Once
Or
Twice
So
It
Just
Gives
Us
A
Backup
In
Case
The
First
One
Goes
Down
And
Like I
Said
Gives
Us
All
Streaming
Hacking
All
The
Time
So
I've
Also
Been
Working
On
Just
Updating
The
Server
In
General
We
Upgraded
The
Kernel
On
The
Bin
Rev
Server
So
Got
A
New
Secure
Kernel
So
Any
Of
You
Guys
That
Have
Been
Footprinting
You
Gotta
Start
Over
Testing
Some
New
Features
Blah
But
What
I
Think
Everybody
Is
Probably
Waiting
To
Hear
Since
I
Mention
It
A
Moment
A
Go
Was
An
Update
On
Hack
TV
And
Rax
Can
Now
Confirm
This
As
Well
As
Duel
Some
Of
The
Other
Guys
The
Intros
Are
Done
And
The
Segments
For
Episode
One
Are
Done
And
Filmed
Selected
We're
Just
Putting
Them
Together
Into
A
Show
So
And
Not
Only
That
But
We
Have
A
Good
Start
On
Episode
Two
Segments
So
And
When
I
Say
We
Of
Course
I
Mean
Saito
He's
The
Footage
We've
Got
A Lot
Of
Good
Stuff
From
Us
From
DDP
Members
We've
Also
Had
Good
Submissions
That
We're
Going
To
Be
Using
So
Contact
Me
If
You
Want
To
Submit
Anything
I
Think
I
Added
A
Section
To
The
Fact
On
Ben
Rev.com
If
You
Go
To
The
Fact
Link
There's
A
Question
That
Gives
You
Some
Information
There
You
Can
Always
Contact
Me
Directly
Stank
Dog
At
Ben
Rev.com
About
How
To
Submit
Stuff
What
We
Have
Now
Decided
On
And
I
I'm
Not
Sure
If
I've
Mentioned
This
Officially
So
This
Is
The
Official
Statement
We're
Going
With
A
30
Minute
Show
We
Kick
The
Idea
Around
We
Had
Enough
Footage
Scattered
Here
And
There
We
Were
Talking
About
Maybe
Doing
A
Full
Hour
Show
We
Didn't
Know
If
We
Wanted
To
Do
We
Decided
Now
We're
Going
To
Do
30
Minute
Episodes
So
We
Have
The
First
One
Already
Laid
Out
Just
Going
Through
The
Editing
The
Video
Editing
Process
And
Once
We
Get
Rolling
Since
The
Opening
Segment
The
Introductions
And
Stuff
And
Then
The
Closing
For
The
Most
Part
They're
Going
To
Be
Static
So
We
Won't
Have
To
Redo
Any
Work
On
Those
For
The
Most
Part
So
Once
We
Get
Flowing
It's
Pretty
Much
Just
Going
To
Be
Plugging
In
The
Footage
And
The
Segments
Inside
Of
It
For
Each
Half
Hour
Show
So
As
Soon
As
We
Get
Them
As
Fast
As
You
Send
Some
Footage
And
As
Fast
As
We
Film
Footage
We're
Going
To
Start
Spitting
Them
Out
Hopefully
That
First
One
Is
The
Toughest
As
They
Always
Say
But
We
Are
Still
A
Few
Weeks
Away
Maybe
Even
Less
From
Releasing
Episode
One
So
That
Is
The
Official
Statement
So
Keep
An
Eye
Out
Rax
You
Saw
The
Opening
And
I'm
Putting
You
On
The
Spot
What
Did
You
Think
That
Was
Pretty
Cool
I
Was
Very
Happy
With
It
Was
Even
Better
Than
I
Expected
I
Mean
Saito
Is
Doing
Great
Work
And
It's
I
Was
Impressed
I
Was
Very
Impressed
I
Have
To
Say
So
Other
Than
That
I
Been
Working
On
Oracle
PLSQL
Like
I
Talk
About
All
The
Time
Writing
A
Lot
Of
PLSQL
Programs
I
Put
Together
I
Was
Talking
To
Duel
About
This
Racks
I
Slipped
This
In
I
Was
Talking
To
Duel
I
Bought
A
DVD
Rack
I
Got
A
Bunch
Of
Smaller
Ones
Around
The
House
I
Have
Pretty
Big
DVD
Collection
That
I
Started
Years
Ago
When
DVDs
Were
Much
Cheaper
And
You
Could
Get
A
Lot
Of
Good
Bargains
On
The
Internet
Maybe
I
Have
A
Pretty
Good
DVD
Collection
And
I
Have
Been
Buying
A
Rack
Here
At
Walmart
That
Holds
50
Or
100
Et
Cetera
Wait a
minute
Did
You
Go
Into
The
Evil
Empire
Store
The
Which
Evil
Empire
Would
That
Be
The
W
One
There's
So
Many
To
Choose
From
I
Don't
Think
I've
Ever
Bought
A
DVD
From
That
Particular
One
No
Okay
I
Thought I
Heard
You
Say
The
W
Word
I
Did
Buy
Some
The
Racks
From
Them
Not
To
Make
A
Play
On
Words
There
R
A
C
K
S
That's
One
Of
The
Entendres
For
My
Name
But
That's
Another
Story
Exactly
Yeah
I
Did
I
Think
I
Did
Buy
Generic
Junk
Basically
And
Basically
Wherever I
Could
Find
Them
Cheap
So
Yeah
I
Kind
Of
Used
Them
For
That
I
Have
To
Say
But
I
Finally
Broke
Down
And
Bought
A
Nice
One
I
Ordered
It
Over
The
Web
It
Got
Here
I
Put
It
Together
Last
Weekend
Got
All
My
DVDs
Off
The
Scattered
Racks
Here
And
There
Put
Them
All
Together
Got
Them
All
And
Mounted
Got
My
Alphabetized
Matching
Cases
Everything
Got
My
Thermal
Laser
Printer
I'm
Going
To
Start
Labeling
Out
You
Know
Putting
It
On
The
Shelf
Beneath
It
Got
Out
My
Laptop
Went
For
The
Old
Trusted
Q
Cat
Flipped
The
Laptop
Around
And
I
Realized
There's
No
PS2
Port
On
My
Laptop
Damn
It
Curses
Foiled
Again
So
Here
I
Was
Getting
Ready
To
Go
Through
And
Put
The
Whole
Collection
Into
The
Laptop
Put
It
Into
My
Database
Have
All
That
Stuff
Handy
So
I
Can
Get
An
Exact
Count
I
Don't
Know
If
Anybody
I
Don't
Know
If
You
Collect
DVDs
Or
Anybody
Out
There
Runs
Into
This
But
I'll
Be
At
The
Store
And
I'm
Like
Oh
I love
This
Movie
But
Do
I
Already
Have
It
I
Don't
Remember
If I
Bought
This
Or
Not
I
Don't
Have
That
Many
But
Yeah
So
I
Find
That
A
Lot
And
I
Don't
Want
To
Buy
Duplicates
Which
I've
Done
A
Couple
Times
So
Yeah
I
Want
To
Have
A
Nice
Database
And
Maybe
Keep
It
In
The
Trunk
Of
My
Car
I'm
That
Much
Of
A
Geek
And
I
Couldn't
Do
It
Because
I
Have
To
Get
An
Adapter
Now
So
I
Anyway
That's
Been
My
Week
Lots
Of
Silly
Stuff
But
Hey
What
Can
I
Tell
You
What
Do
You
Got
Going
On
Well
I
Just
Got
Back
I
Was
As
Many
People
Know
I'm
In
Arizona
Sunny
Warm
Arizona
And
I
Went
Back
To
Michigan
For
Some
Personal
Business
And
Let
Me
Tell
You
Talk
About
Life
Sucks
Man
Okay
I
Lived
In
Arizona
For
Sixteen
Years
I
Haven't
Driven
In
The
Snow
For
Seventeen
Years
And
I
Went
Back
In
One
Of
The
Coldest
Biggest
Snowstorms
They
Had
In
The
Last
Twenty
Years
So
Imagine
The
Deep
Freeze
At
Your
The
Walk
In
Deep
Freeze
At
Your
Favorite
Supermarket
Or
Warehouse
Chain
That's
What
It's
Like
Out
There
And
That
Was
Really
An
Eye
Opener
In
More
Ways
Than
One
But
Driving
Through
Snowstorms
And
All
Other
Stuff
But
I
Did
Get
To
See
The
Detroit
Auto
Show
Wait
Before
You
Can
Are
We
Allowed
To
Ask
What
Type
Of
Car
You
Were
Driving
Yeah
It
And
You
Can
You
Can
You
Can't
See
Anything
But
White
That
Was
Scary
You
Got
To
See
The
Detroit
Auto
Show
That
Was
Great
Lots
Of
Vehicles
There
And
Actually
Went
To
The
Barrett
Jackson
Auto
Auction
Here
In
Phoenix
Yesterday
And
Saw
Well
This is
Now
Sunday
That
We're
Recording
This
But
Saw
A lot
Of
Really
Cool
Cars
A lot
Of
Really
Expensive
Cars
The
Most
Expensive
Car
That
Sold
While
I
Was
There
Was
A
1942
Lincoln
Fanton
Or
Something
With
The
V12
Sold
For
420
Thousand
So
Lots
Of
Big
Bucks
Some
People
Still
Have
Bucks
Out
There
But
That
Not
A
Whole
Bunch
Related
Technology
Related
For
That
But
As I
Said
I
Was
Out
Of
Town
Doing
Some
Biz
And
Just
Doing
My
Normal
Thing
I
Did
See
Something
That
Just
Popped
Up
Today
Again
On
Slash
Dot
They
Are
Calling
It
Cooperative
Linux
And
What
This
Is
As
Opposed
To
User
Mode
Linux
With
Sigwin
Which
Was
Known
As
UML
Win32
Just
Saw
This
Tonight
It
Was
Just
Recently
Released
But
Basically
You
Can
With
A
Couple
Of
Kernel
Changes
You
Can
Take
And
Run
Linux
It
Self
The
Entire
Operating
System
From
Within
Windows
And
Click
It
And
Launch
It
Even
Like
Knopix
And
All
This
Other
Stuff
So
That
Looks
Follow
Up
On
That
If
You
Get
Into
That
A
Little
Bit
Yeah
I
Colinux
Dot
Org
Colinux
Dot
Org
Is
The
Site
And
I
rolls royce the front end looks like a mac truck i am not kidding it looks like a mac truck's grill
on this rolls royce and there's probably we'll put it up in the show notes also there's probably a
website for that detroit auto show i don't know what it is offhand and you can usually see pictures
and videos sometimes of what they have a lot of a lot of neat things uh toyota actually launched
a new line you know so there's toyota's mid-range they have a lexus which is a higher range they've
launched a new line that's called scion s-c-i-o-n yep scion and uh scion means a descendant of like
the scion of shanara if anyone's read those stories uh anyway and i saw one says shanara or shanara
shanara i always thought it was shanara but i got a i got one of the uh audios of the books on tape
and they said shanara the whole time so oh okay figured i was wrong uh but anyway the uh uh so i
saw one of these in phoenix before i left and you know how the honda element looks bad oh yeah i
think that's a box on wheels okay this uh this this sign as i found out it's a scion but it looks
literally like a cracker box on wheels i was reminded of the yugo oh no that's not good oh yeah very very
square anti-aerodynamic like the board cube you know floating through space well imagine driving one
of those things down the road they did have another car you know another scion there that looked okay but
you know everyone's going for this suv crap i know i know the other interesting thing that was
there and i got to see in person you couldn't go in it in that but uh it's uh uh an urban car from
germany and the website is smart.com it's called the smart car and get this it's a two-seater doesn't
make any pretext about having a back seat but here's how small it is again just designed for
driving in the city it's probably like a two-cylinder engine or something like that instead of parallel
parking you can nose in this thing in a regular parking space like on a street and and be clear
of the street and they have various configurations in that i mean this thing gets like 80 miles to the
gallon or something uh that was actually on the edge of the mercedes uh booth i guess mercedes has
something to do with these guys and that but lots of lots of interesting things lots of people uh
lots of lots of good stuff probably the most uh technologically advanced car if we you know
trying to wrap it back into technology is um the toyota prius the hybrid car yes we talked about
that on previous episodes that is a very nice automobile yeah bluetooth enabled you know so
if you have a bluetooth cell phone you can you don't even have to unplug her and do anything
all this other stuff in that and i guess honda and i just saw it i didn't see it there but i guess
honda announced that they've got honda has their uh uh insight uh the the little hybrid one last
year they came out with a hybrid civic uh 2000 i guess for the 2005 year which uh calendar year
which means like the october 2004 they're going to have a hybrid uh accord that was pretty cool too
yeah i know they do have a hybrid civic that they just released this past one i believe yep uh in
addition to they do have a a hybrid line yeah well the honda insight was for their first yeah i'm
sorry you're right insight that's what it was yep so yep they're they're going to start mixing it
into their model lines it's not just a line itself anymore they're going to start mixing it into the
model lines and it's they're supposed to also be working on the hydrogen cell uh vehicle and they
they have it they can work now to four below which wouldn't help people in the uh midwest right now
wouldn't be able to use it because it's with the windchill it's colder than that but uh you know
hydrogen fuel cells is is very cool technology and i'm sure you probably talked about this before
but uh toshiba is looking at and they actually they actually have some prototypes of that they
expect to have about i think this this year uh laptops that will run on hydrogen fuel cells
and the faa has approved the use of these hydrogen fuel cells to be taken into airplanes
so you'll have a thing about the size of a big lighter that you'll pop out
pop another little cartridge in and keep going and keep computing so that big old heavy battery and
all the space it took up and all the weight it gave you is going to be going bye-bye
very very interesting very interesting news indeed
all right well let's um boy we've been we we can go you and i you know that
wind us up point us in direction we'll talk forever
i'll tell you what boy we're running out here um let's skip ahead
and let's go cover a few more of these 101 ways to save the internet
which i think you've been following i'm not sure if you're caught up completely on the show i know
how that is but it's 101 it's an article from wired magazine 101 basically 101 complaints pitches and
complaints about problems with the internet and potential solutions and kind of just go through
them and talk about whether we agree whether they're feasible whether they're good idea bad
idea that type of stuff and we ended last week with number 41 and uh and earlier i cleared up the
fandango which i think was 35 yeah 35 here so we're going to start today with number 42 does that sound
cool with you sounds good to me all right this could and this we may get stuck on 42 knowing the way you
and i talk but let's see how we go here uh number 42 says replace servers with p2p or peer-to-peer
too many network services domain names web servers email rely on the old client server model which is
vulnerable to attack well i'm not sure it appears vulnerable to attack well i think there and obviously
part of it is there's no centralized uh system to attack first of all right and if you look at
something like bit torn which breaks something up into shards uh but i think it's the term they call
it it kind of models the internet you know if you think back to your you know history of computing 101
type of thing you remember that so you know the arpanet uh was originally which grew into the internet
was originally developed uh to withstand a nuclear attack so if one point in the in the arpanet was
bombed by those godless commies who are now our friends by the way but anyway uh so if there was
something to be attacked a central point to be attacked the system could figure out and route
around that that's how routers that's how everything works well a lot of these peer-to-peer types of
things as well you know thinking specifically like a bit torrent because i've been playing with that a lot
lately if you know i'm sharing something you know i've got the latest uh iso for novix and uh you know
stank down starts downloading it from me stank will automatically his uh his client will set up
and it'll start sharing for someone else so when dual wants to pick it up he'll be getting some from
me and some from stank obviously he can't get anything from stank that stank doesn't have
but as we go through this the more people we have sharing it as we decentralize this control
if you know once someone else has a full copy of it if i shut mine down it really doesn't affect
things yeah it may make it a little bit slower but there's no central point of control no central
single point of failure right well and it's safer from that aspect but at the same time it comes with
its own problems as well peer-to-peer has problems with with well let's be frank there's viruses that
are spread via the peer-to-peer because it's a self-policing community and you don't know you have
to trust a lot of sources from people that you don't know now again that is something that's innate to
the to the topography but you know there are it's just a different type of danger and that's just
one you know that's there's going to be security problems their their their logic of whether one's
more or less vulnerable to attack i mean everything is vulnerable to attack so i would debate the logic
of it however yes the point of centralized versus decentralized it's still a it could be a good
movement but i don't know the reality of that people want to see the thing is people want control
and corporations and companies don't want decentralized they want everything under their
reign of control they don't want to share and obviously uh and you have a very good point there
because certain things you know you have to get from one centralized place because you know you have
authenticity non-repudiation all you know putting all those issues aside but some things do not
lend itself very well to a peer-to-peer type of approach or security of a centralized thing
because you know again the viruses the changing of the data you know who can you trust all that
type of thing so it's not the you can't get rid of servers at least you know nothing i've seen or
read about or or uh you know have seen anything of the uh uh you know the the futurist thinking kind
of people i don't see anything that's going to replace that i don't think peer-to-peer is what's going to do
it no no and and just there are solutions to even those things there's checksums that you can use
to verify files and data as being valid stuff like that but that's a little too technical and and
frankly complex for most typical users so but even i don't see that as a proper solution and go ahead
with what you're going to say it's the same thing if you built even if you built that all that in and
had a pki public key infrastructure all built in let's you know let's face it md5 is going to be
cracked relatively soon okay uh rsa that that's good basically i think in my research as i've as
i found out uh for anything for military grade usage they say if it's uh if they can get what
is it i think it's 10 to 20 years out of it so if it would take if if with more's law on that
if uh the computing horsepower in 10 to 20 years is not going to be able to in a reasonable length
of time and i don't know how they define that but it's not going to be able to break uh you know
like the rsa cryptography then it's viable so as as we get more powerful computers you know let
alone you know 64 bit okay it's still you know standard kind of stuff i don't know if we get into
quantum computing eventually you know then it goes up by a whole uh order of magnitude right uh so you
know we can you can do those things you can build into the client so we'll automatically look at the
checksums and look at the md5s and all that other type of stuff that some of that stuff can be
made transparent to the user but uh again you know it's not going to answer everything yeah
and it's a long ways off absolutely all right uh number 43 uh unleash unleash i guess this is kind
of a funny one unleash jeff bezos rock star now jeff okay come on jeff you can build a better music
store than that dude in the black turtleneck or mr bill now jeff bezos is of course uh amazon.com
ceo am i correct right so i guess that's just a nod to amazon saying they may have dropped the ball
lost it to uh some other people i'm not sure who the dude in the black turtleneck refers to do you
jeff jobs oh yeah of course oh yeah i should have caught that one speaking of which i gotta throw
this into another uh little tidbit off of slash dot this day in history uh no no off of slash dot
no go ahead bill gates the queen of england is going to knight him oh yeah yeah somebody mentioned
that in the forums as a matter of fact no it's like wait a minute first of all hey liz if you're
listening okay first of all he's not a british subject you've lost the war you can't really give
him a knighthood i know you can give an honorary knighthood but it was supposed to be for you know
improving the global economy can you say are you igniting him because he's made a global monopoly
you know so liz come on think about it again you gave it to mick jagger all right paul mccartney i
can see mick jagger man didn't osby osborne just get knighted or something too i mean he's giving
these things away like uh you know toasters at a at a uh your local bank it's like it's not going
to mean anything anymore it's like having a star on the walk of fame you know there you go sir bill
oh great great i thought you were going to mention that uh what was the 20th anniversary
you were talking about earlier 20th anniversary of uh the original mac on uh on january 24th 1984
that's when it was officially announced remember the uh big dramatic commercial too 1984 with the
woman running in with the hammer wasn't it yep yep at the screen in fact that commercial was only
ever shown on the on tv just once it's running around on the internet forever but it was only shown
just once on the super bowl that year yep yep there and you know what isn't it so funny
to be shown once to be a legendary commercial it's not driven down your throat over and over again
like the budweiser commercials and stuff yeah hey i still miss the talking frogs yeah well you know
who doesn't what about the lizards yeah lizards they can live without but and the ferret oh the the
ferret needed to die yeah they've run out of talking animals yeah yeah anyway off on a tangent like
we do uh number 44 publish creative commons for dummies the open copyright licensing system is pure
genius but you need to be a genius to use it
hmm well first of all i mean
let's let's talk about getting some publicity out there for it
you know most people don't know about it uh you're starting to see a few things around on websites about
it now if you haven't gone to it's creativecommons.org right next i believe so is it one word
yeah i'll try it here as we're talking but and we'll put it up in the show notes just to confirm for
everyone uh so if you if you haven't gone to basically what it is and and unlike some
corporate entities would like you to think it's not saying download copyright matter of fact it's
built on copyright it's saying that the person or company that that creates something has the choice
of how it can be used most people choose up until this point commercial companies and all that
choose to retain the copyright all rights reserved well what creative commons does is allow you the
creator of an original piece of something to choose how that's going to be used you may say yeah
everyone can use it that's fine you may say everyone can use it but they have to say i made it or
everyone can use it but they can't change it you have all those choices with creative commons and it
is creative commons plural.org uh if you go there and click on the little learn more button there's
nice little animations and things but uh i don't know if it's too complex i don't i just think not
enough people know about it yeah that they insinuate that like it says here you need to be a genius to
use it i don't know about all that but um well they have they have a wizard there that you click on
and say okay what do you want to do with this what do you want to do about that they have a wizard to
fill it out for you and it'll tell you this is the kind of license you want what more do you need
yeah i actually would need to read more about that myself that's one of those things i have bookmarked
to finish reading one day and and i need to do and what's the next one we're moving pretty good
well we made it through three i think actually we're going to make it through 50 at least uh okay
number 45 is very short and sweet verisign must die agreed there is no there's not even a blurb
after it it's just the header yes next i agree next point well actually i want to add one minor
thing like one of the first articles i ever wrote was bashing verisign and pointing out tons of flaws
and how much i hated them and how they it was an art and it never got published anywhere by anybody i
submitted it to several different places maybe because it wasn't written well but i really think
more so because nobody at the time was scared to touch it i don't know if it was a controversial
thing or if it just sucked but i just want to throw that out there one of the first things
and i've been preaching for years how much they suck and how much i hate them so yes verisign must die
number 46 free the beeb and for those of you who don't know the beeb the bbc is dragging its feet
on a plan to put its vast archives online come on chaps it's your best idea since monty python
well they already licensed all the monty python content to uh comedy central but and by the way
for the record speaking of dvd collections i do have every uh monty python episode the whole dvd
17 dvd set but yeah i look at it every time i go in or see it but it's just a little pricey for me
oh man you gotta go for it i know i know it's good stuff but yeah that's that's on my wish list
um but the thing is the bbc has such rich content and and has so much it'd be well there's not even
i'm not even going to try drawing the comparison to any of the american broadcast television things
because it's it's commercial the bbc obviously they have commercials in that too but it's just
i think it's a different animal i don't know if you'd agree with that stank or not well i have i have
one of my all-time favorite shows ever on any network and anything is is red dwarf i have all the
red dwarf episodes on videotape and they're up to uh uh season two on dvd right now which i've also
purchased so yeah they've got and they make documentaries that are just to die for i mean
some of their document like i don't know if you've ever seen walking with dinosaurs oh yeah oh my god
it's just amazing it's just uh i don't you know they they make a lot of really good stuff uh george
or well a life in pictures i don't know if listeners have seen that nick 84 actually hooked me up with
that i guess i guess the closest thing you could kind of come to it's kind of a cross between pbs
public broadcast system here in the states and commercial television because they have
advertisements and they have regular comedy series and they have multiple channels and that but
they have such a rich content history you know for 100 year old images and all that type of thing
and that's what they're saying if that can be put online uh that would just enrich you know
the everything available to the world well if as long as we're going to make a soup of what it's
like i'd throw in pbs and but i'd also throw in discovery and tlc in there you know a lot of channels
and the it really is kind of a combination of all of it yeah um and there's something kind of similar
already has been done a bit and it's with old tv commercials and that matter of fact they even saw
one of the uh i don't know if you played with winamp five but you know you can have a view the
the video content through winamp now i refuse to go above winamp 2.91 oh two five five is killer
what they did they they uh they took through two the two code and the three code and they merged
two plus three equals five it's worth it definitely worth it check it out well i might check it out on
my work system but yeah but anyway i don't have high expectations for it i gotta be honest with you
but i'll try to be give it a shot since you endorse it yeah well three sucked okay oh yes it's so badly
that that's the reason i don't even want to look at five right but they they were some cool features
in there so they took out those cool features rewrote it to the the 2.x code base and rather than
calling it four because three was such a debacle they called it five two plus three equals five anyway
um so there was getting back to trying to get it back to the point here is that um uh if you go to
archive.org they have like old television commercials and everything there's there's some
cool stuff there i mean i think even they i think they even have like edison's original uh films that
he shot and all this stuff all that old stuff that's fallen into the public domain and that
is available to you at archive.org so imagine if that rich content of almost you know a hundred years
of film and television that the bbc has and again think of it like pbs and broadcast television and
and all the best of cable tv discovery channels and history channel put that all online that is
such that would be such a great contribution to you know just the the the cultural level of of data
that's available to the world yeah but you know you can't help but wonder it's all about the money i'm
buying uh red dwarf dvds and apparently so are others and if they make this freely available online
you know that's probably what is holding it back or making them drag their feet i'm sure there's some
executive somewhere that's you know using that as their well take take out all the money pythons
and the red dwarfs and the doctor who's and you know the hitchhiker's guide of the universe take
all those things out and leave them out for now but you know let's set everything else free don't
at least get yeah at least get started right all right number 47 another short one with no
explanation it just simply says upgrade phone booths to wi-fi he started doing that in uh well in new
york i think in canada as well yeah and we talked about that a long time ago how you know wi-fi was
taking off and sometimes we're we were equating the number of phone booths disappearing versus the
number of internet kiosks growing so it kind of we've kind of talked about that so i don't think
there's too much more to say um and i gotta honest i'm reading some of these for the first time
myself so i'm this is all off the cuff here and i know you haven't seen it because it's sitting in
front of me so i did kind of read through the article but i don't remember each point yeah
um number 48 free rob glazer glazer g-l-a-s-e-r he's the uh he's the former microsoft guy that
started real networks oh the barrage of pop-ups that clutter the screen when we try to use real one
can only be a cry for help geek guru glazer is being held hostage by his own marketing department
it was it was pretty bad you would install something and you'd have to like go 47 clicks
in to make sure you didn't get some kind of little advertising pop-up stuff yeah i i hate real i always
have and i always will but you know they've started going more for the light side of things first of
all it's not too bad anymore it's not it's not too bad to not have all the advertising in but they
released all that uh source code that i don't know exactly which license if it's gpl and that but for
helix and so that's now you know freely available for any operating system you know linux and osx and
anything else that anyone's working on so they are starting to uh more embrace the thing and i think
that's because uh as they're you know finding out as they're trying to compete with microsoft that you
know the the juggernaut that is microsoft uh obviously real networks had the the jump on it but
um they they've i think they've seen that to to successfully compete against microsoft you have
to give stuff away and i mean completely give it away not just make it no charge you have to
completely open up the kimono and give everybody everything yep open the kimono that's a good uh
visual there that's a little little side note here too i've said it a few times in that but it was i
think it was about 1990 probably about 1991 i almost invented streaming audio another story i
almost invented it i came up with the idea and we're working on it now and i just kind of let it
drop so but anyway i you could it could be free racks almost with my real name there could be free
racks you know for the from all the pop-up stuff but anyway that's why we record early we could have
edited that um yeah i invented hyperlinking too by the way just thought i'd throw that out oh doug engelbart
did that in 1968 all right and he has a patent on it yeah and you were how old in 68 um i was
negative three you weren't even a twinkle in your daddy's eye okay exactly i don't think i ever was
but that's a whole nother story uh number four okay we're going to go through 51 52 starts a new little
subsection so we're going to do a couple three more here number 49 mesh networks everywhere if
wireless signals could hop from gadget to gadget we wouldn't have to hunt for hot spots there was
something i was reading in the uk they were putting what was it with street lights they were
putting like uh repeaters for wi-fi and that's how they were going to get broadband out into the the
the sticks you know the booney dock boondock areas and stuff uh well i'm not sure when you say repeat
i'm not sure that's what they're going for here but i mean basically every if i understand it right
in the mesh network every node is a is a repeater so it can it cleans up regenerate the signal and
allows it literally builds that mesh over the over the you know well that's sounds like what you're
talking about more describes the canopy the wi-fi canopy that everybody dreams about um as far as
coverage area this more sounds like with the mesh networks is talking about hopping from gadget to
gadget security wise i would say this will never work but i think what they're saying is you and i
both have cell phones i can send even let's say where i'm not in a um area of where there is
coverage but i can send a message and it would see your gadget individually like almost like a bluetooth
type thing and yes i can't get out but i can get one step closer and then you walk into new york city
and you happen to get within wi-fi you then transfer it on my behalf i think that's what they're going
with here that the signal can travel from person to person item to item until you finally get
into internet neighborhood or internet coverage i think is what they're trying to insinuate with
here which in a dream world would be wonderful but the security implications like i said are just
mind-numbing and b bandwidth and oh there's just way too many logistical nightmares for this
well on top of that i mean let's let's even get we were talking about ip version 4 versus version 6
let's let's face it ip version 4 is is back from you know the the hippie days of things in the late
60s where everyone trusted everybody right you know it was the uh uh you know the the it was used by
academia and that and there was no need for security well right sorry it's a different world we really
need to change that underlying infrastructure first i mean that's why email is broken and everything so we
we have to change that first before any mess type of thing will come come to life all right but it
is it's a good idea way down the road way way way way down the road but yeah the real yeah it's
definitely after ipv6 before it could even be thought of again i think it's way too early
and then again the security but anyway yeah that's i don't think that's too realistic right now
now um number 50 oh you'll love this one speaking of the big w number 50 add a broadband department to
walmart you've put every local hardware store out of business how about the cable guy and the phone
company next well you know sam walton was uh pretty good uh buddies with bill gates you know they were
playing uh they used to play bridge together you know i don't know how you're going to feel about me
making the statement but i happen to think that walmart was great was perfectly fine when sam walton was
in charge but when sam walton was around it's since sam walton died that walmart has turned into the
the monster that it is today can i draw a similar parallel by please by all means uh
the disney corporation after walt disney died yeah yeah that's a very good they put an accountant in
charge you know uh even even they've got friends in the streets things through the grapevine even like
the little uh you know stuffed animals and stuff that that you get from uh disneyland or disney world
now uh they've cheapened those down you know and that whole vision and everything else that uh that
walt had is uh has just has just been perverted well it's all this because it all comes down to the
bottom line and how many times have i gone on to the soapbox about how money and greed ruins
things i mean sam walton you know the whole reason that walmart took off and became successful was
because of his idea of as simple as it sounds providing quality products at a low price
and at the same time it was all about customer service that was the number one key that made walmart
successful it was always about the customer always you could go back and return anything to walmart you
could go back and any problems that you had they'd work it out it was that was their philosophy whatever
it takes and we don't serve customers anymore in anything in this world and i'm going to get off the
soap op now you try to take something back to walmart if anybody's trying to take it back you know you're
not going to take software video games movies any of that back they're not going to take that back they
refuse well you know the other thing too if uh anyone out there recalls remember the ads where
they used to and this is probably when when sam was still around remember the ads out there where
there was a walmart was talking about you know made in the usa right all the stuff well you know
because of their business practices and that let's here's a perfect uh here's a uh you know a prime
example is levi strauss levi and there's there's articles you probably have links to it already
in that but if not i can get you some as well uh levi strauss no longer manufacturers clothing in
this country it's all outsourced to you know asian third world countries uh because that model was
all they do is design now and that model was forced on them because walmart said this is the price
we're going to pay for your things or we will not carry them right and that's disgusting that they
have that kind of power so you know but it used to be buying the usa right well now walmart has
because their power has forced all these companies to outsource things and where are those jobs going
by the way you know so you know and then we walk and then we i'm sorry go ahead i didn't mean to
interrupt you oh so you know you get up in the morning you know you have your uh you know you put on
your uh imported leather shoes and you have all this you know italian leather shoes and all this other
stuff you get in your german-made car and you you know drive down look look can't you know wonder why
you can't find a job it's because of the you know globalization is outsourced all these things
so yeah and and it just makes me i'm sorry i'm so angry i interrupt sometimes i apologize but
it's so angry that now we're going to complain and whine about why there's no jobs in the usa and how
everything's being outsourced but big corporations like the walmart of the world are pushing this and
making that happen it's all about the benjamin well and i still have the utmost respect for stan
walton and what he started off with and buy american and forcing americans to make better goods
which i'm sorry i still say is some truth of the matter that i think americans don't make as good
products sometimes they've improved and walmart and its original philosophy i think helped drive that
and now they've gone in the opposite direction so i i really you know his his big philosophy that i
always believed and always loved too was it was it's an old saying called eat your own dog food
and he literally and when i say literally he literally did that the line of dog i don't know if it still
is to this day but they had his line of dog food walmart brand or whatever was called i think it was
called old roy which was the named after sam walton's dog he named the dog the dog food and he fed the
dog that same dog food he literally lived by that slogan eat your own dog food buy american support
american and yeah i'm gonna back off that soapbox too because there's an interesting corollary to
that though uh as i was reading something online here lately i was talking about actually i think it
was uh the latest uh robert x kringley article uh you can get that at pbs.org or link out of slash dot
but he's talking about you know this kind of globalization things again he's talking about bmw has a uh a plant in
north carolina and not only does bmw have it to get it you know closer to its market and have less
shipping costs than that it's actually cheaper for bmw to do business in north carolina in the united
states of america than it is in germany because the way the labor laws and everything are set up did
you know that for an employee basically a company has to have the government's permission a german
company has to have the government's permission to have employees work overtime and it's very expensive
to have so it's cheaper the way our laws and things are structured it's cheaper for bmw to build cars
over here and amazing yeah if anybody really is interested i'm not positive i've got this right
but sam walton's book that he wrote before he died which explained a lot of his philosophies i
think it was called made in america if i'm correct so um i will put a link up to that to amazon if
anybody's interested in the show notes and uh the last one number 51 last one we're going to cover
tonight because we're way over i'm pretty sure um it's 51 says and while you're at it following up
on walmart broadband and while you're at it bundle a combo pc dsl cable modem and wireless home router
for say 299 is that is that reasonable is that realistic you're getting kind of close to some of
that stuff p pc dsl cable modem alone you know can cost you 100 bucks probably oh no no i mean
you can well if you buy it from like for example if you buy it from bell south my local telco i think
it's 199 well you're you're anyone's insane if they're paying that much well and they are or
anything else like the little links is boxes without the wire this is like 49 bucks street
price well i'm talking about just the dsl modem oh the modem itself yeah the dsl modem no oh no
the wire yeah the links is you can get that for 50 all day long i think i think it would fry
electronics for 79 bucks now yeah i think you can get it for 50 all day long for the low-end models
the very cheaply made and after rebate kind of situations but the dsl modem cable modem well
actually my cable cable modem um is built into the cost of the monthly service you don't have
to pay for it up front it's leased yeah it's like a cable box so which is fine because as long
as it's still cheaper than the dsl but uh it would be nice to own it you get the economies of scale if
you start putting that in every machine like cd-rom players right when cd-rom players have been out
they were they were out for 10 years they were a solution looking for a problem
and they were too expensive to for individuals to put in well now you can't buy a computer without
a cd-rom player matter of fact it's getting so you can't buy a computer without a cd-rom burner
so once they start including it on every unit that's made you know even if you if you use it or not
use it you know that's that's kind of your choice if you're not using it obviously you're paying for
something you're not using but once they can get the the scales of economy to doing that
on the uh you know by by having it in every unit i think they can get it down to that price
all right well there you have it that's um up to 51 we're about halfway so we still got that to go
for a little while longer but we're going to close it up today we're way way over i hope we don't
interrupt into a quarter circle forward uh the show that follows us i hope we're under an hour and a
half but um let's go to shout outs and actually i'll go ahead and shout out my shouts go to logan
five i've done that many times does great work and sito 187 who's working on hack tv these guys are
doing such such great work on on our ddp projects and i have these visions of what i want done and i
frankly don't have the ability i don't have the artistic talent i don't have the skills to make some of
this and these guys are not only fulfilling them but enhancing them and driving it even forward
they're the ones doing clean professional work if i had to do it myself it would end up being not
nearly as nice wouldn't look as good so my shouts logan five sito 187 great work i have nothing but
respect and appreciation for what they're doing um why don't you what do you got shout outs this week
i got shots to uh slip mode who's uh uh kind of coming back into the fold for the 2600 things down
here he uh he got in touch with the nine volt and got a lot of stuff straightened out so we've got the
proper information now on az2600 uh so shouts to slip for that and uh also zapper link because he's uh
you know all doing all the kinds of stuff on the site and keeping that going as well plus uh you
know the whole gang out here in phx yep yep shots to them i i second that a lot of you guys got a lot of
good people you really do you got a lot of people that contribute and are active and
matter of fact you know i'm gonna a little bit of thing out of the bag slip mode will probably have
it on uh on his show in the now but uh uh slip and i were talking the other day about trying to do
maybe not exactly a conference but trying to do some kind of hacker gathering down in phoenix sometime
so uh check for that on the boards uh and you know we're going to be we're going to be working
some ideas and floating some ideas past people too so uh we'll uh we'll uh let you know about that as
it unravels sounds good sounds good you're gonna put me up if i come out oh yeah you're gonna put
me in a cot somewhere in the basement well yeah we don't have basements out here oh interesting
unless you cuddle up to a cactus oh that sounds even better all right and if you have feedback
for us send it to radio at binrev.com uh closing music i went back to something i had off mp3.com a
long time ago it's called it's called from someone called pusher man it's called life gets choppy it's
just kind of a nice hip-hop beat nice mellow thing to close out the show and that's gonna do it so
rax you know how we close out the show thank you for being here and let's tell everybody that we're
going to see them next week same hack time same hack channel
uh
so
Thank you.