WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:07.500 This is dedicated to all the hackers and the crackers 00:07.500 --> 00:12.380 I see in binary, I speak source code 00:12.380 --> 00:16.220 Step on my toes, I'll post a million jpegs of you in a fag pose 00:16.220 --> 00:18.880 In your digital stance, getting firewalled ho 00:18.880 --> 00:21.400 Cause I'm riding the net in my six-fold 00:21.400 --> 00:23.180 I was a dick with my 56 00:23.180 --> 00:26.200 Now with my cable, I'm able to get that stable 00:26.200 --> 00:28.480 On the out, my name is Ace and I'm a Leo 00:28.480 --> 00:32.200 On the digital highway, my name is Neo and I'm a hero 00:32.200 --> 00:34.900 In a flash, I'll screw you on burning dream packs 00:34.900 --> 00:38.120 You need some ISO? Let me through my hard drive rifle 00:38.120 --> 00:40.140 Our exchange you could never stifle 00:40.140 --> 00:43.280 And a digital hug, you just caught the love bug 00:43.280 --> 00:47.300 I bootlegged your CD, I caused a fight between Un and Jay-Z 00:47.300 --> 00:49.520 Your CG, it's all gonna be free 00:49.520 --> 00:51.920 Whether we take it by force or we take it nicely 00:51.920 --> 00:56.020 You feel that rattle in your bones when I tell you we just hacked out Jones 00:56.020 --> 00:58.180 And NASDAQ, leave your fight on your back 00:58.180 --> 01:00.460 Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack 01:00.460 --> 01:03.220 Cause I am he who loves to hack and crack 01:03.220 --> 01:06.340 This is dedicated to the hackers and the criminals 01:06.340 --> 01:11.240 Serial code, source code, ISO, RAM, SIP, SIS 01:11.240 --> 01:14.000 This is dedicated to the hackers and the crack 01:14.000 --> 01:20.740 Welcome ladies and gentlemen, I am your big fat obnoxious host Stankdawg 01:20.740 --> 01:26.140 And I am on the phone with our good friend Voodoo Hal as the co-host today 01:26.140 --> 01:28.460 Say hello to the people Voodoo Hal 01:28.460 --> 01:31.240 How's up guys in my very creative way 01:31.240 --> 01:39.260 And we are coming to you, originally aired on February 24th, 2004 01:39.260 --> 01:41.700 Hmm, that's kind of an interesting 01:41.700 --> 01:43.980 02242004 01:43.980 --> 01:46.320 That's, hmm, only three numbers in that stream 01:46.320 --> 01:50.160 Anyway, we are going to 01:50.160 --> 01:52.200 We only had a couple emails this time 01:52.200 --> 01:53.840 But they were good ones 01:53.840 --> 01:55.360 So, as usual 01:55.360 --> 01:57.800 I guess I start off every show and say we're gonna jump into the email 01:57.800 --> 01:59.500 So, this time we're gonna, let's see 01:59.500 --> 02:01.440 We jump into the email, we dive into the email 02:01.440 --> 02:03.840 Let's, um, I don't know 02:03.840 --> 02:04.660 Fart into the email 02:04.660 --> 02:05.720 What else can we do? 02:05.800 --> 02:06.840 I don't know what else to do to the email 02:06.840 --> 02:11.060 I guess let's, uh, wade into the email 02:11.060 --> 02:12.040 There we go, that's a good one 02:12.040 --> 02:16.620 Um, and our first email is from SubZero 02:16.620 --> 02:17.520 Our good friend 02:17.520 --> 02:20.120 Uh, and he says, quote 02:20.120 --> 02:22.320 Uh, actually he's following up 02:22.320 --> 02:23.240 First of all, I'll set this up 02:23.240 --> 02:25.440 He's following up on our talk about port knocking 02:25.440 --> 02:27.320 A couple of episodes ago 02:27.320 --> 02:29.980 He says, I was talking to one of my friends 02:29.980 --> 02:30.940 About the port knocking 02:30.940 --> 02:32.620 That you were talking about on the show 02:32.620 --> 02:34.200 And he brought up some interesting points 02:34.200 --> 02:36.500 We talked about OSI standards 02:36.500 --> 02:38.800 With it, there is never a guarantee 02:38.800 --> 02:40.140 That packets will get there 02:40.140 --> 02:41.920 And if they do, in the right order 02:41.920 --> 02:43.480 If this were implemented 02:43.480 --> 02:45.980 A person would have to continue to send packets 02:45.980 --> 02:48.200 In sequence until they arrive 02:48.200 --> 02:49.460 In the correct sequence 02:49.460 --> 02:52.020 If you are dealing with this on a small 02:52.020 --> 02:54.060 Or business internal network 02:54.060 --> 02:56.020 It would almost be overkill 02:56.020 --> 02:59.020 It could cause a worldwide priority of packets 02:59.020 --> 03:01.240 In which a user could start sucking up 03:01.240 --> 03:02.900 A lot of bandwidth 03:02.900 --> 03:04.160 Am I totally off? 03:04.200 --> 03:06.020 Or are these ideas reasonable? 03:06.920 --> 03:09.160 Uh, yes, they're definitely reasonable 03:09.160 --> 03:11.680 And something that we talked about before 03:11.680 --> 03:15.560 Um, but to get a more authoritative answer 03:15.560 --> 03:17.820 I went straight to the source 03:17.820 --> 03:19.600 I went to a great source 03:19.600 --> 03:20.300 Martin K. 03:20.300 --> 03:23.100 From portknocking.org 03:23.100 --> 03:24.380 The site we mentioned before 03:24.380 --> 03:26.800 And I posed this question to him 03:26.800 --> 03:27.860 And he was gracious enough 03:27.860 --> 03:30.100 To give us a response 03:30.100 --> 03:31.640 And his response is 03:31.640 --> 03:34.880 That this question isn't a new one 03:34.880 --> 03:36.960 But it's a very, very valid one 03:36.960 --> 03:38.800 I don't know if I have an answer though 03:38.800 --> 03:40.920 One of the limitations of port knocking 03:40.920 --> 03:42.540 In its current incarnation 03:42.540 --> 03:44.680 Include the packet order problem 03:44.680 --> 03:47.840 In networks where the latency can be anticipated 03:47.840 --> 03:50.040 It's probably good enough to send the packet 03:50.040 --> 03:52.600 Spaced apart further than the latency time 03:52.600 --> 03:53.940 That makes sense, I guess 03:53.940 --> 03:56.080 Unfortunately, good enough 03:56.080 --> 03:58.120 Isn't good enough for a production environment 03:58.120 --> 04:00.000 In which port knocking is used 04:00.000 --> 04:00.920 And relied upon 04:00.920 --> 04:03.520 A number of potential extensions 04:03.520 --> 04:05.360 Include packaging the knock 04:05.360 --> 04:07.460 In packet as data payload 04:07.460 --> 04:10.240 This is something implemented by doorman 04:10.240 --> 04:13.280 Although this drastically changes the approach 04:13.280 --> 04:14.620 No more knocking on ports 04:14.620 --> 04:17.660 Data is still sent across a closed port 04:17.660 --> 04:19.420 You have to delve deeper into the firewall 04:19.420 --> 04:21.020 To extract the packet payload 04:21.020 --> 04:22.080 Thus harder 04:22.080 --> 04:23.860 But the packet order problem 04:23.860 --> 04:24.920 Is mitigated 04:24.920 --> 04:25.880 Thus easier 04:25.880 --> 04:27.660 Best regards, Martin 04:27.660 --> 04:28.620 So Martin K. 04:28.740 --> 04:29.760 Thank you very much 04:29.760 --> 04:31.400 And he's probably laughing 04:31.400 --> 04:32.520 Because I'm calling him Martin K. 04:32.600 --> 04:33.220 And he knows why 04:33.220 --> 04:37.060 But yeah, that makes very good sense 04:37.060 --> 04:39.020 It's a perfectly valid question 04:39.020 --> 04:41.900 And personally 04:41.900 --> 04:43.360 I didn't think about this 04:43.360 --> 04:45.360 In terms of a production environment 04:45.360 --> 04:47.700 I just thought of it as a neat idea 04:47.700 --> 04:48.860 And something to put around 04:48.860 --> 04:49.780 As kind of a game 04:49.780 --> 04:50.520 A little secret 04:50.520 --> 04:50.960 You know 04:50.960 --> 04:52.240 To add this 04:52.240 --> 04:53.460 Kind of a backdoor 04:53.460 --> 04:54.500 Underground way 04:54.500 --> 04:55.960 To access your own things 04:55.960 --> 04:56.940 Your own stuff 04:56.940 --> 04:58.200 Hook friends up 04:58.200 --> 04:59.540 To be able to access your systems 04:59.540 --> 05:00.220 Without, you know 05:00.220 --> 05:01.840 Really going to a 05:01.840 --> 05:03.160 Thinking it all the way through 05:03.160 --> 05:04.260 To a production environment 05:04.260 --> 05:06.020 If you actually wanted to implement this 05:06.020 --> 05:07.640 As some form of security 05:07.640 --> 05:10.980 There's a lot of other problems 05:10.980 --> 05:12.160 In addition to this one 05:12.160 --> 05:13.000 Mentioned here 05:13.000 --> 05:15.400 And the workaround he talked about 05:15.400 --> 05:15.900 To me 05:15.900 --> 05:17.960 Isn't even port knocking anymore 05:17.960 --> 05:18.240 I mean 05:18.240 --> 05:18.540 Am I 05:18.540 --> 05:21.060 Would you consider that port knocking 05:21.060 --> 05:22.460 When you actually put the payload 05:22.460 --> 05:24.060 Put it into a 05:24.060 --> 05:26.460 The data into a separate payload packet 05:26.460 --> 05:28.140 Not really 05:28.140 --> 05:28.920 Not at that point 05:28.920 --> 05:30.220 I don't think that's really 05:30.220 --> 05:31.940 What I was thinking 05:31.940 --> 05:33.120 Of port knocking at that point 05:33.120 --> 05:33.780 That becomes 05:33.780 --> 05:34.980 I don't know 05:34.980 --> 05:36.520 Some other type of authentication 05:36.520 --> 05:37.380 It's not really 05:37.380 --> 05:39.400 I don't really know 05:39.400 --> 05:39.940 It just 05:39.940 --> 05:40.920 Kind of takes it 05:40.920 --> 05:41.760 Into a different direction 05:41.760 --> 05:42.340 In my eyes 05:42.340 --> 05:43.380 The idea of port knocking 05:43.380 --> 05:44.120 And that problem 05:44.120 --> 05:44.760 Yes that is 05:44.760 --> 05:47.240 Naturally associated with it 05:47.240 --> 05:47.760 However 05:47.760 --> 05:49.000 I don't know 05:49.000 --> 05:49.660 That I would ever 05:49.660 --> 05:50.580 Implement this 05:50.580 --> 05:51.840 In a production environment 05:51.840 --> 05:52.940 And I would be interested 05:52.940 --> 05:54.380 And maybe Martin 05:54.380 --> 05:55.100 Can follow up 05:55.100 --> 05:56.580 And let me know this 05:56.580 --> 05:57.060 If he listens 05:57.060 --> 06:00.900 If there are any places 06:00.900 --> 06:02.060 That he's aware of 06:02.060 --> 06:03.280 And we don't have to name names 06:03.280 --> 06:03.600 Of course 06:03.600 --> 06:04.460 But are there places 06:04.460 --> 06:05.080 That are implementing 06:05.080 --> 06:05.640 Port knocking 06:05.640 --> 06:08.480 As a production environment 06:08.480 --> 06:09.480 Type of authentication 06:09.480 --> 06:12.080 Or type of access 06:12.080 --> 06:12.920 If there are any 06:12.920 --> 06:13.860 Production environments 06:13.860 --> 06:14.800 Businesses 06:14.800 --> 06:15.880 Schools 06:15.880 --> 06:17.160 Etc. etc. 06:17.300 --> 06:18.560 That are actually using this 06:18.560 --> 06:19.560 I had assumed 06:19.560 --> 06:20.960 That it probably would not be 06:20.960 --> 06:22.960 A. Because it's a fairly new 06:22.960 --> 06:25.140 Recently popular 06:25.140 --> 06:25.640 I should say 06:25.640 --> 06:26.260 I don't know how new 06:26.260 --> 06:27.500 But recently popular 06:27.500 --> 06:29.800 Phenomenon 06:29.800 --> 06:31.300 So that reason 06:31.300 --> 06:32.340 As well as the fact 06:32.340 --> 06:33.500 That to put anything 06:33.500 --> 06:34.420 In a production environment 06:34.420 --> 06:35.400 You really do your research 06:35.400 --> 06:36.340 To make sure it's safe 06:36.340 --> 06:36.840 And secure 06:36.840 --> 06:37.540 Dependable 06:37.540 --> 06:38.080 Reliable 06:38.080 --> 06:39.360 And all of that 06:39.360 --> 06:39.840 And I don't know 06:39.840 --> 06:40.460 That it's been around 06:40.460 --> 06:40.820 Long enough 06:40.820 --> 06:42.760 To determine those things 06:42.760 --> 06:44.400 Unless it's a Microsoft product 06:44.400 --> 06:45.440 Well 06:45.440 --> 06:46.020 Yeah 06:46.020 --> 06:46.880 That's 06:46.880 --> 06:48.580 Coming up later in the show 06:48.580 --> 06:50.440 So 06:50.440 --> 06:51.440 Thank you 06:51.440 --> 06:52.480 Thank you to Sub-Zero 06:52.480 --> 06:53.240 And to Martin 06:53.240 --> 06:54.800 For that email 06:54.800 --> 06:55.740 And response 06:55.740 --> 06:58.380 I 06:58.380 --> 06:59.820 I really 06:59.820 --> 07:00.720 I think he said it 07:00.720 --> 07:01.120 Really well 07:01.120 --> 07:01.520 I think he 07:01.520 --> 07:02.360 I think he explained it 07:02.360 --> 07:02.800 Very well 07:02.800 --> 07:05.960 I got another email 07:05.960 --> 07:07.040 From Pixel Fiend 07:07.040 --> 07:08.500 And I 07:08.500 --> 07:08.980 You know what 07:08.980 --> 07:09.900 It's kind of funny 07:09.900 --> 07:11.080 I knew he was going to email 07:11.080 --> 07:11.420 Because 07:11.420 --> 07:12.980 He admits that 07:12.980 --> 07:13.900 He's a Mac junkie 07:13.900 --> 07:16.480 He's a Mac evangelist 07:16.480 --> 07:17.320 I think is what he said 07:17.320 --> 07:18.840 Jokingly of course 07:18.840 --> 07:20.540 And he says 07:20.540 --> 07:21.640 That he loved the Mac talk 07:21.640 --> 07:22.780 Last episode 07:22.780 --> 07:23.880 And he actually had a 07:23.880 --> 07:24.760 Follow up on a comment 07:24.760 --> 07:25.620 That Logan 5 07:25.620 --> 07:25.980 Made 07:25.980 --> 07:28.720 He says 07:28.720 --> 07:29.600 Referring to Logan 5 07:29.600 --> 07:30.460 He did mention 07:30.460 --> 07:32.020 That mounted servers 07:32.020 --> 07:32.840 Do not appear 07:32.840 --> 07:33.580 On the desktop 07:33.580 --> 07:34.700 By default 07:34.700 --> 07:35.320 They don't 07:35.320 --> 07:35.980 For some reason 07:35.980 --> 07:37.560 That can be changed 07:37.560 --> 07:37.960 Through the 07:37.960 --> 07:38.980 Finder preferences 07:38.980 --> 07:40.700 That can be changed 07:40.700 --> 07:41.020 Through the 07:41.020 --> 07:41.880 Finder preferences 07:41.880 --> 07:42.480 Excuse me 07:42.480 --> 07:43.540 Finder menu 07:43.540 --> 07:44.380 Preferences 07:44.380 --> 07:45.460 General tab 07:45.460 --> 07:46.600 There's a checkbox 07:46.600 --> 07:47.720 For showing mounted servers 07:47.720 --> 07:48.480 On the desktop 07:48.480 --> 07:49.820 Also 07:49.820 --> 07:51.180 OSX does come 07:51.180 --> 07:52.300 With cron built in 07:52.300 --> 07:52.900 That's a question 07:52.900 --> 07:53.540 That I actually 07:53.540 --> 07:54.280 Brought up on the show 07:54.280 --> 07:55.680 But like Logan 5 07:55.680 --> 07:55.960 Said 07:55.960 --> 07:56.780 There's no GUI 07:56.780 --> 07:57.260 Front end 07:57.260 --> 07:58.080 In the OS 07:58.080 --> 07:58.520 Sure 07:58.520 --> 07:59.140 Joe Blow 07:59.140 --> 07:59.560 Won't know 07:59.560 --> 08:00.180 How to use it 08:00.180 --> 08:00.940 But cron 08:00.940 --> 08:01.880 Works just great 08:01.880 --> 08:02.720 And I have my doubts 08:02.720 --> 08:03.160 As to whether 08:03.160 --> 08:03.580 Joe Blow 08:03.580 --> 08:04.040 Could use it 08:04.040 --> 08:04.520 With a GUI 08:04.520 --> 08:04.880 Either 08:04.880 --> 08:06.280 Which is also 08:06.280 --> 08:07.100 Probably true 08:07.100 --> 08:08.360 So thank you 08:08.360 --> 08:08.980 Thank you very much 08:08.980 --> 08:10.540 For your Mac ideas 08:10.540 --> 08:11.100 And comments 08:11.100 --> 08:11.800 Pixel Fiend 08:11.800 --> 08:13.080 We always welcome 08:13.080 --> 08:13.980 Hearing from you 08:13.980 --> 08:15.340 And for the listeners 08:15.340 --> 08:16.020 There's a couple more 08:16.020 --> 08:16.580 Mac tips 08:16.580 --> 08:19.080 And some ideas 08:19.080 --> 08:19.820 Of where this stuff 08:19.820 --> 08:20.080 Is at 08:20.080 --> 08:20.640 And how you can 08:20.640 --> 08:21.020 Tweak it 08:21.020 --> 08:21.700 And customize it 08:21.700 --> 08:22.160 A little bit 08:22.160 --> 08:23.700 So that's a 08:23.700 --> 08:24.340 Very good thing 08:24.340 --> 08:24.720 Now I know 08:24.720 --> 08:26.420 You're not a Mac guy 08:26.420 --> 08:27.040 But you know 08:27.040 --> 08:27.960 You have some 08:27.960 --> 08:28.760 Mac experience 08:28.760 --> 08:29.260 What did 08:29.260 --> 08:30.800 Have you had time 08:30.800 --> 08:31.740 To listen to the 08:31.740 --> 08:33.140 OSX episode yet 08:33.140 --> 08:34.500 Somewhat yeah 08:34.500 --> 08:35.980 And did you have 08:35.980 --> 08:36.780 Anything to add 08:36.780 --> 08:37.120 Or was there 08:37.120 --> 08:37.700 Anything in there 08:37.700 --> 08:38.200 That you thought 08:38.200 --> 08:38.900 Was left out 08:38.900 --> 08:40.520 Not really no 08:40.520 --> 08:42.000 How much 08:42.000 --> 08:42.740 Have you used 08:42.740 --> 08:44.360 What is it 08:44.360 --> 08:45.300 Not Jaguar 08:45.300 --> 08:46.100 But Panther 08:46.100 --> 08:47.080 Oh yeah 08:47.080 --> 08:47.720 I've actually 08:47.720 --> 08:48.580 I've owned 08:48.580 --> 08:49.880 Probably seven 08:49.880 --> 08:50.780 Or eight Macs now 08:50.780 --> 08:52.640 And I mean 08:52.640 --> 08:53.740 I'm slowly becoming 08:53.740 --> 08:54.500 More of a Mac user 08:54.500 --> 08:55.420 I have 08:55.420 --> 08:56.720 Had an 800 megahertz 08:56.720 --> 08:57.660 iBook as well 08:57.660 --> 09:00.040 And the only thing 09:00.040 --> 09:00.960 That I wanted to stress 09:00.960 --> 09:01.720 I think you asked 09:01.720 --> 09:03.820 Is it worth it 09:03.820 --> 09:04.700 In terms of 09:04.700 --> 09:04.980 You know 09:04.980 --> 09:06.020 Going from Jaguar 09:06.020 --> 09:06.760 Spending the money 09:06.760 --> 09:08.580 On Panther 09:08.580 --> 09:09.540 And it's definitely 09:09.540 --> 09:10.680 Definitely worth it 09:10.680 --> 09:11.260 They've 09:11.260 --> 09:11.880 Why so 09:11.880 --> 09:14.220 The whole project 09:14.220 --> 09:14.800 Speed wise 09:14.800 --> 09:15.720 Tremendously 09:15.720 --> 09:16.840 It's night and day 09:16.840 --> 09:17.700 At least for me 09:17.700 --> 09:19.380 So it's not 09:19.380 --> 09:20.040 You asked 09:20.040 --> 09:20.880 What the slowest 09:20.880 --> 09:21.720 Machine it would run on 09:21.720 --> 09:22.680 I had it running on 09:22.680 --> 09:23.000 You know 09:23.000 --> 09:23.860 A 400 megahertz 09:23.860 --> 09:25.240 Old tangerine 09:25.240 --> 09:26.620 iMac 09:26.620 --> 09:27.100 And it ran 09:27.100 --> 09:28.300 Quite well 09:28.300 --> 09:30.460 So the jump 09:30.460 --> 09:30.860 From 09:30.860 --> 09:32.680 From Jaguar 09:32.680 --> 09:33.200 To Panther 09:33.200 --> 09:33.920 Is not like 09:33.920 --> 09:34.520 Just another 09:34.520 --> 09:35.160 Service pack 09:35.160 --> 09:35.460 Release 09:35.460 --> 09:36.140 There is actually 09:36.140 --> 09:36.780 Some meat 09:36.780 --> 09:37.280 And something 09:37.280 --> 09:37.940 Substantial 09:37.940 --> 09:38.320 In there 09:38.320 --> 09:38.920 To upgrade 09:38.920 --> 09:39.720 Definitely 09:39.720 --> 09:40.820 Performance wise 09:40.820 --> 09:41.060 I mean 09:41.060 --> 09:41.820 For me 09:41.820 --> 09:42.540 It was night and day 09:42.540 --> 09:43.800 Also 09:43.800 --> 09:45.380 He kind of touched 09:45.380 --> 09:45.840 On expose 09:45.840 --> 09:46.340 A little bit 09:46.340 --> 09:46.960 Expose is 09:46.960 --> 09:47.340 You know 09:47.340 --> 09:47.800 One of the 09:47.800 --> 09:48.600 Coolest things 09:48.600 --> 09:49.440 I've ever seen 09:49.440 --> 09:50.100 And what 09:50.100 --> 09:50.540 Explain 09:50.540 --> 09:51.020 What is that 09:51.020 --> 09:51.440 Exactly 09:51.440 --> 09:52.280 Expose 09:52.280 --> 09:52.720 Was the 09:52.720 --> 09:53.400 Function he was 09:53.400 --> 09:53.960 Talking about 09:53.960 --> 09:55.020 On how 09:55.020 --> 09:55.660 You can 09:55.660 --> 09:56.400 Hit one button 09:56.400 --> 09:57.600 Or one gesture 09:57.600 --> 09:58.060 Depending on 09:58.060 --> 09:58.560 How you've got it 09:58.560 --> 09:58.880 Set up 09:58.880 --> 09:59.600 To minimize 09:59.600 --> 10:00.260 Not necessarily 10:00.260 --> 10:00.860 Minimize all 10:00.860 --> 10:01.200 Your windows 10:01.200 --> 10:01.780 But size 10:01.780 --> 10:02.160 Them all 10:02.160 --> 10:02.360 As they 10:02.360 --> 10:02.700 Size them 10:02.700 --> 10:02.900 All 10:02.900 --> 10:03.360 As you select 10:03.360 --> 10:03.660 The one you 10:03.660 --> 10:03.900 Want 10:03.900 --> 10:04.200 And it will 10:04.200 --> 10:04.760 Resize the 10:04.760 --> 10:05.320 Full screen 10:05.320 --> 10:07.300 And it's 10:07.300 --> 10:08.080 One of the 10:08.080 --> 10:08.620 Coolest things 10:08.620 --> 10:08.980 And it 10:08.980 --> 10:10.480 Doesn't really 10:10.480 --> 10:11.120 At least for me 10:11.120 --> 10:11.400 It wasn't 10:11.400 --> 10:12.140 Apparently obvious 10:12.140 --> 10:12.860 For a while 10:12.860 --> 10:13.620 Until I started 10:13.620 --> 10:14.500 Needing 10:14.500 --> 10:15.200 Doing a lot of 10:15.200 --> 10:15.760 Things that required 10:15.760 --> 10:16.220 A lot of windows 10:16.220 --> 10:16.620 Because normally 10:16.620 --> 10:17.020 I don't 10:17.020 --> 10:18.160 Normally I have 10:18.160 --> 10:18.940 My term 10:18.940 --> 10:19.960 And like 10:19.960 --> 10:20.500 One other thing 10:20.500 --> 10:20.800 Open 10:20.800 --> 10:21.960 Possibly an 10:21.960 --> 10:22.580 AIM client 10:22.580 --> 10:22.900 Or an 10:22.900 --> 10:23.500 iChat client 10:23.500 --> 10:24.060 And I'm done 10:24.060 --> 10:24.320 I mean 10:24.320 --> 10:24.840 I'm happy with 10:24.840 --> 10:25.160 The term 10:25.160 --> 10:26.380 I'm good to go 10:26.380 --> 10:28.260 Right 10:28.260 --> 10:28.740 Well 10:28.740 --> 10:29.920 At home 10:29.920 --> 10:30.900 I'm like that 10:30.900 --> 10:31.700 But at work 10:31.700 --> 10:32.340 That would come 10:32.340 --> 10:33.120 In really handy 10:33.120 --> 10:33.740 Because I leave 10:33.740 --> 10:34.400 A lot of 10:34.400 --> 10:35.820 Different windows 10:35.820 --> 10:36.120 Open 10:36.120 --> 10:36.600 I use a lot 10:36.600 --> 10:36.920 Of different 10:36.920 --> 10:37.540 Type of editors 10:37.540 --> 10:38.060 Several 10:38.060 --> 10:39.640 SSH sessions 10:39.640 --> 10:40.380 And telnet 10:40.380 --> 10:40.860 Sessions 10:40.860 --> 10:41.360 Of different 10:41.360 --> 10:42.700 Different types 10:42.700 --> 10:43.160 Of telnet 10:43.160 --> 10:43.560 Sessions 10:43.560 --> 10:44.000 That I don't 10:44.000 --> 10:44.440 Want to close 10:44.440 --> 10:44.640 Out 10:44.640 --> 10:45.500 So that 10:45.500 --> 10:45.760 Could be 10:45.760 --> 10:46.260 Really handy 10:46.260 --> 10:46.680 To me 10:46.680 --> 10:48.740 But I'm 10:48.740 --> 10:48.980 Not a 10:48.980 --> 10:49.420 Mac guy 10:49.420 --> 10:51.240 Freely admit 10:51.240 --> 10:51.760 That and that's 10:51.760 --> 10:52.240 Why I've been 10:52.240 --> 10:52.880 Trying lately 10:52.880 --> 10:53.420 To get one 10:53.420 --> 10:53.820 Of those 10:53.820 --> 10:54.800 What do they 10:54.800 --> 10:55.140 Call it 10:55.140 --> 10:55.600 Is it just 10:55.600 --> 10:55.920 Called an 10:55.920 --> 10:56.380 IMAX 10:56.380 --> 10:56.700 See my 10:56.700 --> 10:57.100 Terminology 10:57.100 --> 10:57.900 I just want 10:57.900 --> 10:58.240 One of the 10:58.240 --> 10:58.720 IMAX 10:58.720 --> 10:59.000 With the 10:59.000 --> 10:59.340 Colors 10:59.340 --> 11:00.500 That they 11:00.500 --> 11:01.380 Had on the 11:01.380 --> 11:01.820 Commercials 11:01.820 --> 11:02.160 Years ago 11:02.160 --> 11:02.500 I figure 11:02.500 --> 11:02.860 Those are 11:02.860 --> 11:03.200 About to be 11:03.200 --> 11:04.060 Cheap by now 11:04.060 --> 11:04.640 Yeah the 11:04.640 --> 11:05.640 Color ones 11:05.640 --> 11:06.240 Are just 11:06.240 --> 11:06.820 IMAX 11:06.820 --> 11:07.780 Like I bought 11:07.780 --> 11:08.220 My 400 11:08.220 --> 11:08.560 Megahertz 11:08.560 --> 11:08.980 IMAX 11:08.980 --> 11:09.220 For like 11:09.220 --> 11:09.900 225 11:09.900 --> 11:10.480 So they're 11:10.480 --> 11:10.820 Not bad 11:10.820 --> 11:11.160 At all 11:11.160 --> 11:11.800 Yeah if I can 11:11.800 --> 11:12.200 Get one for 11:12.200 --> 11:12.700 A couple hundred 11:12.700 --> 11:13.340 Bucks to play 11:13.340 --> 11:14.800 With and get 11:14.800 --> 11:15.360 Used to it 11:15.360 --> 11:16.040 See if I like 11:16.040 --> 11:16.580 It because I've 11:16.580 --> 11:17.020 Heard great 11:17.020 --> 11:17.660 Things about the 11:17.660 --> 11:18.080 iBook 11:18.080 --> 11:19.100 In theory 11:19.100 --> 11:19.980 From looking at 11:19.980 --> 11:20.460 Them and watching 11:20.460 --> 11:21.140 People use them 11:21.140 --> 11:21.500 And hearing 11:21.500 --> 11:22.560 It sounds like 11:22.560 --> 11:23.140 It's a great 11:23.140 --> 11:23.940 Great machine 11:23.940 --> 11:24.440 But I don't 11:24.440 --> 11:24.840 Want to sink 11:24.840 --> 11:25.320 That much 11:25.320 --> 11:25.640 Into it 11:25.640 --> 11:26.120 Until I get 11:26.120 --> 11:26.880 Used to it 11:26.880 --> 11:27.320 And understand 11:27.320 --> 11:27.860 And see if I 11:27.860 --> 11:28.740 Like it first 11:28.740 --> 11:29.640 Yeah see I 11:29.640 --> 11:30.880 Spent you know 11:30.880 --> 11:31.300 A couple hundred 11:31.300 --> 11:32.040 Bucks and bought 11:32.040 --> 11:32.820 Two old 11:32.820 --> 11:33.620 Power Macs 11:33.620 --> 11:34.460 And two 11:34.460 --> 11:35.520 Even older 11:35.520 --> 11:36.180 Power Macs 11:36.180 --> 11:36.560 Before the 11:36.560 --> 11:37.100 G3s 11:37.100 --> 11:37.680 But the two 11:37.680 --> 11:38.500 G3s I bought 11:38.500 --> 11:39.180 You know they 11:39.180 --> 11:39.560 Were only two 11:39.560 --> 11:40.540 33s 11:40.540 --> 11:41.620 But just 11:41.620 --> 11:42.960 The experience 11:42.960 --> 11:43.800 Alone from that 11:43.800 --> 11:44.520 Made me you know 11:44.520 --> 11:45.420 Want to buy more 11:45.420 --> 11:46.040 So we bought 11:46.040 --> 11:46.860 The iMac 11:46.860 --> 11:47.500 And then we 11:47.500 --> 11:48.640 Bought the iBook 11:48.640 --> 11:49.720 And just recently 11:49.720 --> 11:50.360 Sold the iBook 11:50.360 --> 11:51.040 So I can buy 11:51.040 --> 11:51.640 A PowerBook 11:51.640 --> 11:55.760 Well speaking 11:55.760 --> 11:56.480 Of Mac 11:56.480 --> 11:57.400 This is actually 11:57.400 --> 11:58.040 A good segue 11:58.040 --> 12:00.240 Into talking 12:00.240 --> 12:01.280 About the 12:01.280 --> 12:02.340 Distributed.net 12:02.340 --> 12:02.640 Team 12:02.640 --> 12:03.040 This is a 12:03.040 --> 12:03.520 Housekeeping 12:03.520 --> 12:04.140 I bring it up 12:04.140 --> 12:04.740 Every once in a 12:04.740 --> 12:05.320 While once every 12:05.320 --> 12:05.920 Month or two 12:05.920 --> 12:08.120 And it's very 12:08.120 --> 12:09.120 Fitting to follow 12:09.120 --> 12:09.820 Up on Pixel 12:09.820 --> 12:10.480 Fiend's email 12:10.480 --> 12:11.820 Because Pixel 12:11.820 --> 12:12.420 Fiend is putting 12:12.420 --> 12:14.080 Up mad mad 12:14.080 --> 12:14.860 Numbers on the 12:14.860 --> 12:15.220 Distributed 12:15.220 --> 12:15.760 He's only been 12:15.760 --> 12:16.500 On there for 12:16.500 --> 12:18.980 Eight nine days 12:18.980 --> 12:19.860 Less than two 12:19.860 --> 12:20.400 Weeks a little 12:20.400 --> 12:20.880 Over a week 12:20.880 --> 12:22.360 And he's jumped 12:22.360 --> 12:23.140 Halfway up the 12:23.140 --> 12:23.760 List already 12:23.760 --> 12:24.400 So those 12:24.400 --> 12:25.200 Macs dude 12:25.200 --> 12:26.200 Are crunching 12:26.200 --> 12:27.500 Crunching 12:27.500 --> 12:28.280 Some keys 12:28.280 --> 12:29.620 Now why is it 12:29.620 --> 12:30.380 That the Mac 12:30.380 --> 12:31.680 Is crunching 12:31.680 --> 12:32.780 Keys so much 12:32.780 --> 12:33.320 Faster 12:33.320 --> 12:34.840 Than an Intel 12:34.840 --> 12:35.740 I mean I've 12:35.740 --> 12:37.080 Got P4s 12:37.080 --> 12:37.760 Running on it 12:37.760 --> 12:38.480 You know 12:38.480 --> 12:39.220 I don't have 12:39.220 --> 12:39.500 You know 12:39.500 --> 12:39.900 I guess a 12:39.900 --> 12:40.840 64 bit processor 12:40.840 --> 12:41.600 Might help some 12:41.600 --> 12:42.900 But a P4 12:42.900 --> 12:43.500 You would think 12:43.500 --> 12:43.820 Would be 12:43.820 --> 12:44.580 Competitive 12:44.580 --> 12:45.620 But from what 12:45.620 --> 12:46.080 I see 12:46.080 --> 12:46.460 It's getting 12:46.460 --> 12:47.040 It's ass 12:47.040 --> 12:47.820 Handed to it 12:47.820 --> 12:48.280 By these 12:48.280 --> 12:49.520 These G4s 12:49.520 --> 12:50.400 Well first 12:50.400 --> 12:50.700 Of all 12:50.700 --> 12:51.460 A 64 bit 12:51.460 --> 12:51.840 Processor 12:51.840 --> 12:52.560 Probably won't 12:52.560 --> 12:52.960 Help you 12:52.960 --> 12:53.580 Unless they 12:53.580 --> 12:54.160 Decided to 12:54.160 --> 12:54.680 Rewrite it 12:54.680 --> 12:55.180 Using 12:55.180 --> 12:56.000 Doing some 12:56.000 --> 12:56.600 Creative things 12:56.600 --> 12:57.620 But the 12:57.620 --> 12:58.080 Reason on a 12:58.080 --> 12:58.740 Mac can 12:58.740 --> 13:00.000 Just easily 13:00.000 --> 13:00.680 Blow away 13:00.680 --> 13:01.120 An Intel 13:01.120 --> 13:01.460 Box 13:01.460 --> 13:02.600 Is because 13:02.600 --> 13:03.600 The Intel 13:03.600 --> 13:04.100 Box doesn't 13:04.100 --> 13:04.620 Have what's 13:04.620 --> 13:04.880 Called a 13:04.880 --> 13:05.340 Rotation 13:05.340 --> 13:05.880 Instruction 13:05.880 --> 13:07.620 The Macs 13:07.620 --> 13:08.520 Have you know 13:08.520 --> 13:09.000 A lot of 13:09.000 --> 13:10.200 A lot of 13:10.200 --> 13:10.540 Things added 13:10.540 --> 13:10.820 To the 13:10.820 --> 13:11.220 Architecture 13:11.220 --> 13:11.860 That help 13:11.860 --> 13:12.320 It in 13:12.320 --> 13:12.620 Number 13:12.620 --> 13:13.120 Crunching 13:13.120 --> 13:13.600 Period 13:13.600 --> 13:14.920 Same with 13:14.920 --> 13:15.680 A lot of 13:15.680 --> 13:16.300 Different risk 13:16.300 --> 13:17.460 Based architectures 13:17.460 --> 13:17.980 Which a 13:17.980 --> 13:18.840 Mac is risk 13:18.840 --> 13:20.100 It's a 13:20.100 --> 13:20.920 PPC form 13:20.920 --> 13:22.920 And basically 13:22.920 --> 13:23.220 What that 13:23.220 --> 13:23.740 Means is 13:23.740 --> 13:25.060 When Intel 13:25.060 --> 13:25.520 Has to do 13:25.520 --> 13:26.040 These rotations 13:26.040 --> 13:26.360 On the 13:26.360 --> 13:26.680 Numbers 13:26.680 --> 13:27.740 It's taking 13:27.740 --> 13:28.180 You know 13:28.180 --> 13:28.800 Five or 13:28.800 --> 13:29.060 Six 13:29.060 --> 13:29.420 And these 13:29.420 --> 13:29.580 Are 13:29.580 --> 13:30.480 The 13:30.480 --> 13:30.900 Fiddle number 13:30.900 --> 13:31.340 Here is 13:31.340 --> 13:32.320 Arbitrary for 13:32.320 --> 13:32.400 Me 13:32.400 --> 13:32.580 I don't 13:32.580 --> 13:32.820 Know how 13:32.820 --> 13:33.020 Many 13:33.020 --> 13:33.640 Instructions 13:33.640 --> 13:33.840 It would 13:33.840 --> 13:34.100 Take to 13:34.100 --> 13:34.400 Do this 13:34.400 --> 13:35.200 But what 13:35.200 --> 13:35.320 You're 13:35.320 --> 13:35.700 Looking at 13:35.700 --> 13:35.900 Is 13:35.900 --> 13:36.740 Hardware 13:36.740 --> 13:37.080 Based 13:37.080 --> 13:37.780 Rotation 13:37.780 --> 13:38.400 Which would 13:38.400 --> 13:38.920 Take one 13:38.920 --> 13:39.440 Or two 13:39.440 --> 13:39.920 Cycles 13:39.920 --> 13:41.280 Maybe 13:41.280 --> 13:42.180 More 13:42.180 --> 13:42.480 I don't 13:42.480 --> 13:42.600 Know 13:42.600 --> 13:42.840 I would 13:42.840 --> 13:43.160 Say one 13:43.160 --> 13:43.420 Or two 13:43.420 --> 13:44.740 Compared 13:44.740 --> 13:45.380 To six 13:45.380 --> 13:45.680 Or seven 13:45.680 --> 13:46.160 Instructions 13:46.160 --> 13:46.440 That have 13:46.440 --> 13:46.920 To emulate 13:46.920 --> 13:47.560 These rotations 13:47.560 --> 13:49.000 Which that 13:49.000 --> 13:49.880 Alone is a 13:49.880 --> 13:50.340 Tremendous 13:50.340 --> 13:50.740 Difference 13:50.740 --> 13:52.220 Hmm 13:52.220 --> 13:53.620 So but 13:53.620 --> 13:54.260 Max also 13:54.260 --> 13:54.660 Has this 13:54.660 --> 13:55.260 Brilliant thing 13:55.260 --> 13:55.940 Called Altevec 13:55.940 --> 13:56.640 Which you 13:56.640 --> 13:57.040 Guys can look 13:57.040 --> 13:57.360 Up on 13:57.360 --> 13:57.620 Google 13:57.620 --> 13:58.220 It's really 13:58.220 --> 13:58.520 Hard to 13:58.520 --> 13:59.000 Explain 13:59.000 --> 13:59.760 On a 13:59.760 --> 14:00.120 Short amount 14:00.120 --> 14:00.480 Of time 14:00.480 --> 14:01.200 But it's 14:01.200 --> 14:01.600 Basically 14:01.600 --> 14:02.500 I'm sorry 14:02.500 --> 14:02.660 What 14:02.660 --> 14:03.420 Is a 14:03.420 --> 14:03.920 Way of 14:03.920 --> 14:04.440 Creating 14:04.440 --> 14:05.480 Concurrent 14:05.480 --> 14:06.260 Processing 14:06.260 --> 14:06.900 On data 14:06.900 --> 14:07.340 Without 14:07.340 --> 14:08.920 Actually having 14:08.920 --> 14:09.240 Multiple 14:09.240 --> 14:09.880 Processes 14:09.880 --> 14:10.520 It's 14:10.520 --> 14:10.880 Absolutely 14:10.880 --> 14:11.340 Brilliant 14:11.340 --> 14:11.920 And I'm 14:11.920 --> 14:12.020 Sorry 14:12.020 --> 14:12.320 What was 14:12.320 --> 14:12.620 That called 14:12.620 --> 14:12.900 Again 14:12.900 --> 14:13.540 It's called 14:13.540 --> 14:14.140 Altevec 14:14.140 --> 14:14.400 A 14:14.400 --> 14:15.440 L 14:15.440 --> 14:15.780 T 14:15.780 --> 14:16.340 I 14:16.340 --> 14:16.800 V 14:16.800 --> 14:16.940 E 14:16.940 --> 14:17.280 C 14:17.280 --> 14:18.220 Basically 14:18.220 --> 14:18.440 It's 14:18.440 --> 14:18.920 128 14:18.920 --> 14:19.440 Bit 14:19.440 --> 14:21.820 Call it 14:21.820 --> 14:22.100 A buffer 14:22.100 --> 14:22.360 In this 14:22.360 --> 14:22.620 Case 14:22.620 --> 14:23.580 And that 14:23.580 --> 14:23.800 I don't 14:23.800 --> 14:24.020 Know if 14:24.020 --> 14:24.600 Any of 14:24.600 --> 14:24.760 You guys 14:24.760 --> 14:25.180 Ever worked 14:25.180 --> 14:25.380 On 14:25.380 --> 14:25.880 Clustering 14:25.880 --> 14:26.200 Type 14:26.200 --> 14:26.400 Things 14:26.400 --> 14:26.560 You 14:26.560 --> 14:26.820 Have 14:26.820 --> 14:27.300 Different 14:27.300 --> 14:27.660 Types 14:27.660 --> 14:27.840 Of 14:27.840 --> 14:28.200 Data 14:28.200 --> 14:29.540 And 14:29.540 --> 14:30.000 Instructions 14:30.000 --> 14:30.140 You 14:30.140 --> 14:30.320 Have 14:30.320 --> 14:30.660 Multiple 14:30.660 --> 14:30.960 Data 14:30.960 --> 14:31.280 Multiple 14:31.280 --> 14:32.100 Instructions 14:32.100 --> 14:32.800 Or 14:32.800 --> 14:33.140 Multiple 14:33.140 --> 14:33.600 Instructions 14:33.600 --> 14:33.900 Multiple 14:33.900 --> 14:34.220 Data 14:34.220 --> 14:34.460 Or 14:34.460 --> 14:34.840 That's 14:34.840 --> 14:34.940 The 14:34.940 --> 14:35.120 Same 14:35.120 --> 14:35.360 Thing 14:35.360 --> 14:36.980 But 14:36.980 --> 14:37.340 This 14:37.340 --> 14:37.460 Is 14:37.460 --> 14:37.840 Basically 14:37.840 --> 14:38.380 Multiple 14:38.380 --> 14:38.880 Instruction 14:38.880 --> 14:39.120 Or 14:39.120 --> 14:39.920 Single 14:39.920 --> 14:40.360 Instruction 14:40.360 --> 14:40.660 Multiple 14:40.660 --> 14:41.060 Data 14:41.060 --> 14:41.500 Which 14:41.500 --> 14:41.740 Means 14:41.740 --> 14:41.940 It 14:41.940 --> 14:42.140 Can 14:42.140 --> 14:42.820 As 14:42.820 --> 14:43.040 Long 14:43.040 --> 14:43.220 As 14:43.220 --> 14:43.400 You 14:43.400 --> 14:43.640 Can 14:43.640 --> 14:43.960 Line 14:43.960 --> 14:44.120 Up 14:44.120 --> 14:44.240 The 14:44.240 --> 14:44.420 Data 14:44.420 --> 14:44.620 You 14:44.620 --> 14:44.880 Want 14:44.880 --> 14:45.040 To 14:45.040 --> 14:45.280 Work 14:45.280 --> 14:45.560 With 14:45.560 --> 14:45.960 In 14:45.960 --> 14:46.100 A 14:46.100 --> 14:46.500 Single 14:46.500 --> 14:47.280 Memory 14:47.280 --> 14:47.800 Space 14:47.800 --> 14:48.820 It 14:48.820 --> 14:49.260 Can 14:49.260 --> 14:50.420 Do 14:50.420 --> 14:50.640 The 14:50.640 --> 14:50.820 Same 14:50.820 --> 14:51.320 Instructions 14:51.320 --> 14:51.480 On 14:51.480 --> 14:51.580 The 14:51.580 --> 14:51.780 Same 14:51.780 --> 14:52.180 On 14:55.880 --> 14:56.360 This 14:56.360 --> 14:57.080 Array 14:57.080 --> 14:57.200 And 14:57.200 --> 14:57.260 It 14:57.260 --> 14:57.280 Is 14:57.280 --> 14:57.660 120 14:57.660 --> 14:58.200 So 14:58.200 --> 14:58.440 You 14:58.440 --> 14:58.560 Can 14:58.560 --> 14:58.780 Get 14:58.780 --> 14:59.300 16 14:59.300 --> 15:00.020 Bytes 15:00.020 --> 15:00.300 Into 15:00.300 --> 15:00.500 This 15:00.500 --> 15:00.740 Array 15:00.740 --> 15:00.920 So 15:00.920 --> 15:01.020 If 15:01.020 --> 15:01.100 You 15:01.100 --> 15:01.180 Have 15:01.180 --> 15:01.260 A 15:01.260 --> 15:01.560 16 15:01.560 --> 15:01.920 Byte 15:01.920 --> 15:02.020 Or 15:02.020 --> 15:02.280 16 15:02.280 --> 15:02.620 Character 15:02.620 --> 15:02.960 Array 15:02.960 --> 15:03.100 That 15:03.100 --> 15:03.140 You 15:03.140 --> 15:03.440 Wanting 15:03.440 --> 15:03.540 To 15:03.540 --> 15:03.720 Do 15:03.720 --> 15:04.540 Manipulations 15:04.540 --> 15:04.860 On 15:04.860 --> 15:05.760 Using 15:05.760 --> 15:05.880 The 15:05.880 --> 15:06.220 Alphavac 15:06.220 --> 15:06.420 Engine 15:06.420 --> 15:06.660 You 15:06.660 --> 15:06.820 Can 15:06.820 --> 15:07.000 Do 15:07.000 --> 15:07.160 The 15:07.160 --> 15:08.560 Manipulations 15:08.560 --> 15:09.120 On 15:09.120 --> 15:09.360 That 15:09.360 --> 15:09.840 Single 15:09.840 --> 15:10.600 Array 15:10.600 --> 15:10.800 At 15:10.800 --> 15:10.920 The 15:10.920 --> 15:11.200 Exact 15:11.200 --> 15:11.400 Same 15:11.400 --> 15:11.780 Time 15:11.780 --> 15:12.560 And 15:12.560 --> 15:12.700 That 15:12.700 --> 15:12.940 That 15:12.940 --> 15:13.060 Is 15:13.060 --> 15:13.240 The 15:13.240 --> 15:13.260 Best 15:13.260 --> 15:13.380 Case 15:13.380 --> 15:13.540 Scenario 15:13.540 --> 15:13.940 Obviously 15:13.940 --> 15:14.180 You 15:14.180 --> 15:14.300 Could 15:14.300 --> 15:14.420 Do 15:14.420 --> 15:14.520 It 15:14.520 --> 15:14.620 On 15:14.620 --> 15:14.960 32 15:14.960 --> 15:15.240 Bit 15:15.240 --> 15:15.920 And 15:15.920 --> 15:16.480 Pieces 15:16.480 --> 15:16.740 Which 15:16.740 --> 15:16.900 In 15:16.900 --> 15:17.040 That 15:17.040 --> 15:17.200 Case 15:17.200 --> 15:17.320 There 15:17.320 --> 15:17.400 Were 15:17.400 --> 15:17.800 Before 15:17.800 --> 15:18.060 You 15:18.060 --> 15:18.180 Could 15:18.180 --> 15:18.260 Do 15:18.260 --> 15:18.360 It 15:18.360 --> 15:18.420 On 15:18.420 --> 15:18.520 The 15:18.520 --> 15:18.640 Same 15:18.640 --> 15:18.900 Time 15:18.900 --> 15:19.280 So 15:19.280 --> 15:19.480 That 15:19.480 --> 15:19.600 Is 15:19.600 --> 15:19.800 One 15:19.800 --> 15:20.020 Thing 15:20.020 --> 15:20.160 That 15:20.160 --> 15:20.320 Makes 15:20.320 --> 15:20.800 Alphazek 15:20.800 --> 15:21.280 Extremely 15:21.280 --> 15:21.700 Fast 15:21.700 --> 15:21.860 And 15:21.860 --> 15:22.080 Makes 15:22.080 --> 15:22.260 The 15:22.260 --> 15:22.700 G4 15:22.700 --> 15:23.780 Work 15:23.780 --> 15:24.120 Really 15:24.120 --> 15:24.460 Well 15:24.460 --> 15:25.860 Yeah 15:25.860 --> 15:26.500 Obviously 15:26.500 --> 15:27.240 Obviously 15:27.240 --> 15:27.620 Because 15:27.620 --> 15:28.640 It's 15:28.640 --> 15:28.820 Just 15:28.820 --> 15:29.160 Blowing 15:29.160 --> 15:29.460 Up 15:29.460 --> 15:30.660 But 15:30.660 --> 15:31.260 Also 15:31.260 --> 15:31.480 The 15:31.480 --> 15:31.800 Team 15:31.800 --> 15:32.060 In 15:32.060 --> 15:32.540 General 15:32.540 --> 15:33.000 Is 15:33.000 --> 15:33.300 Blowing 15:33.300 --> 15:33.520 Up 15:33.520 --> 15:33.640 And 15:33.640 --> 15:33.840 We 15:33.840 --> 15:34.040 Got 15:34.040 --> 15:34.760 39 15:34.760 --> 15:35.320 Members 15:35.320 --> 15:36.440 And 15:36.440 --> 15:36.640 I 15:36.640 --> 15:36.880 Kind 15:36.880 --> 15:37.000 Of 15:37.000 --> 15:37.160 Thought 15:37.160 --> 15:37.320 We 15:37.320 --> 15:37.500 Hit 15:37.500 --> 15:37.660 A 15:37.660 --> 15:37.980 Peak 15:37.980 --> 15:38.160 Hit 15:38.160 --> 15:38.280 A 15:38.280 --> 15:38.480 Point 15:38.480 --> 15:38.660 Where 15:38.660 --> 15:38.780 We 15:38.780 --> 15:38.880 Were 15:38.880 --> 15:39.060 Just 15:45.920 --> 15:46.280 Couple 15:46.280 --> 15:46.820 Weeks 15:46.820 --> 15:47.500 And 15:47.500 --> 15:47.700 We're 15:47.700 --> 15:47.980 Still 15:47.980 --> 15:48.620 Climbing 15:48.620 --> 15:48.760 In 15:48.760 --> 15:48.880 The 15:48.880 --> 15:49.300 Rankings 15:49.300 --> 15:49.460 Man 15:49.460 --> 15:49.640 We're 15:49.640 --> 15:49.860 Still 15:49.860 --> 15:50.140 Moving 15:50.140 --> 15:50.360 Up 15:50.360 --> 15:50.520 We're 15:50.520 --> 15:50.620 Up 15:50.620 --> 15:50.720 To 15:50.720 --> 15:51.100 39 15:51.100 --> 15:51.580 People 15:51.580 --> 15:51.740 And 15:51.740 --> 15:52.080 Everybody 15:52.080 --> 15:52.480 Putting 15:52.480 --> 15:52.740 In 15:52.740 --> 15:52.900 I 15:52.900 --> 15:53.080 Keep 15:53.080 --> 15:53.400 Saying 15:53.400 --> 15:53.520 It 15:53.520 --> 15:53.680 Everybody 15:53.680 --> 15:53.920 Put 15:53.920 --> 15:54.060 In 15:54.060 --> 15:54.160 A 15:54.160 --> 15:54.300 Little 15:54.300 --> 15:54.620 Bit 15:54.620 --> 15:55.680 And 15:55.680 --> 15:55.900 It 15:55.900 --> 15:56.260 Adds 15:56.260 --> 15:56.460 Up 15:56.460 --> 15:56.580 And 15:56.580 --> 15:56.700 It 15:56.700 --> 15:57.160 Really 15:57.160 --> 15:58.360 Is 15:58.360 --> 15:59.660 This 15:59.660 --> 15:59.820 Is 15:59.820 --> 16:00.060 A 16:00.060 --> 16:00.700 Long 16:00.700 --> 16:00.980 Term 16:00.980 --> 16:01.440 Project 16:01.440 --> 16:01.640 So 16:01.640 --> 16:01.740 It 16:01.740 --> 16:01.960 Doesn't 16:01.960 --> 16:02.220 Matter 16:02.220 --> 16:02.360 If 16:02.360 --> 16:02.440 You 16:02.440 --> 16:02.640 Put 16:02.640 --> 16:02.760 Up 16:02.760 --> 16:03.020 Big 16:03.020 --> 16:03.500 Numbers 16:03.500 --> 16:04.080 Every 16:04.080 --> 16:04.360 Day 16:04.360 --> 16:04.500 Or 16:04.500 --> 16:04.740 One 16:04.740 --> 16:04.920 Day 16:04.920 --> 16:05.080 Of 16:05.080 --> 16:05.100 Of 16:05.100 --> 16:05.240 Course 16:05.240 --> 16:05.400 It 16:05.400 --> 16:05.700 Helps 16:05.700 --> 16:06.280 Obviously 16:06.280 --> 16:07.460 But 16:07.460 --> 16:07.780 Putting 16:07.780 --> 16:07.960 Up 16:07.960 --> 16:08.180 A 16:08.180 --> 16:08.340 Few 16:08.340 --> 16:08.780 Numbers 16:08.780 --> 16:09.160 Every 16:09.160 --> 16:09.500 Day 16:09.500 --> 16:09.840 Or 16:09.840 --> 16:10.120 Every 16:10.120 --> 16:10.340 Other 16:10.340 --> 16:10.600 Day 16:10.600 --> 16:10.760 Or 16:10.760 --> 16:10.980 Even 16:10.980 --> 16:11.240 Once 16:11.240 --> 16:11.380 A 16:11.380 --> 16:11.660 Week 16:11.660 --> 16:11.820 You 16:11.820 --> 16:12.080 Know 16:12.080 --> 16:12.740 Even 16:12.740 --> 16:13.120 Just 16:13.120 --> 16:13.520 Whenever 16:13.520 --> 16:13.720 They 16:13.720 --> 16:13.900 Get 16:13.900 --> 16:14.200 Done 16:14.200 --> 16:14.420 Let 16:14.420 --> 16:14.520 It 16:14.520 --> 16:14.940 Upload 16:14.940 --> 16:15.500 The 16:15.500 --> 16:15.760 Only 16:15.760 --> 16:16.360 Thing 16:16.360 --> 16:16.920 Is 16:16.920 --> 16:18.000 Make 16:18.000 --> 16:18.220 Sure 16:18.220 --> 16:18.360 You 16:18.360 --> 16:18.580 Go 16:18.580 --> 16:18.820 There 16:18.820 --> 16:19.040 In 16:19.040 --> 16:19.160 The 16:19.160 --> 16:19.520 Forums 16:19.520 --> 16:19.660 We 16:19.660 --> 16:19.800 Have 16:19.800 --> 16:19.880 A 16:19.880 --> 16:20.320 Distributed 16:20.320 --> 16:20.880 .net 16:20.880 --> 16:22.400 Forum 16:22.400 --> 16:22.640 That 16:22.640 --> 16:23.300 Explains 16:23.300 --> 16:23.580 How 16:23.580 --> 16:23.700 To 16:23.700 --> 16:23.840 Get 16:23.840 --> 16:24.040 This 16:24.040 --> 16:24.340 Client 16:24.340 --> 16:24.460 And 16:24.460 --> 16:24.720 Everything 16:24.720 --> 16:25.200 Set 16:25.200 --> 16:25.420 Up 16:25.420 --> 16:26.160 And 16:26.160 --> 16:26.260 I 16:26.260 --> 16:26.380 Know 16:26.380 --> 16:26.580 Most 16:26.580 --> 16:26.800 People 16:26.800 --> 16:26.960 Can 16:26.960 --> 16:27.120 Do 16:27.120 --> 16:27.300 That 16:27.300 --> 16:27.420 On 16:27.420 --> 16:27.540 Their 16:27.540 --> 16:27.740 Own 16:27.740 --> 16:28.020 But 16:28.020 --> 16:28.780 There 16:28.780 --> 16:28.900 Are 16:28.900 --> 16:29.180 Two 16:29.180 --> 16:30.180 Projects 16:30.180 --> 16:31.220 Two 16:31.220 --> 16:31.540 Main 16:31.540 --> 16:32.400 Projects 16:32.400 --> 16:32.920 That 16:32.920 --> 16:33.020 Are 16:33.020 --> 16:33.420 Open 16:33.420 --> 16:34.140 And 16:34.140 --> 16:34.320 One 16:34.320 --> 16:34.440 Of 16:34.440 --> 16:34.560 Them 16:34.560 --> 16:34.680 Is 16:34.680 --> 16:34.780 The 16:34.780 --> 16:35.440 RC5 16:35.440 --> 16:35.800 Project 16:35.800 --> 16:36.020 And 16:36.020 --> 16:36.160 That 16:36.160 --> 16:36.240 Is 16:36.240 --> 16:36.360 The 16:36.360 --> 16:36.540 One 16:36.540 --> 16:36.680 That 16:36.680 --> 16:36.860 We 16:36.860 --> 16:37.160 Are 16:37.160 --> 16:37.640 Taking 16:37.640 --> 16:38.000 Part 16:38.000 --> 16:38.200 In 16:38.200 --> 16:38.620 There 16:38.620 --> 16:38.680 Is 16:38.680 --> 16:39.200 Also 16:39.200 --> 16:39.380 An 16:39.380 --> 16:40.420 OGR 16:40.420 --> 16:41.220 Project 16:41.220 --> 16:42.720 Which 16:42.720 --> 16:42.940 Is 16:42.940 --> 16:43.640 Cool 16:43.640 --> 16:43.940 That 16:43.940 --> 16:44.320 Fine 16:44.320 --> 16:44.460 And 16:44.460 --> 16:44.740 Dandy 16:44.740 --> 16:44.840 And 16:44.840 --> 16:45.080 Everything 16:45.080 --> 16:45.540 But 16:45.540 --> 16:46.160 Any 16:46.160 --> 16:47.060 By 16:47.060 --> 16:47.500 Default 16:47.500 --> 16:47.640 They 16:47.640 --> 16:47.720 Are 16:47.720 --> 16:47.960 Both 16:47.960 --> 16:48.320 Turned 16:48.320 --> 16:48.640 On 16:48.640 --> 16:49.020 And 16:49.020 --> 16:49.160 What 16:49.160 --> 16:49.260 It 16:49.260 --> 16:49.360 Will 16:49.360 --> 16:49.560 Do 16:49.560 --> 16:49.720 Is 16:49.720 --> 16:50.100 Run 16:50.100 --> 16:50.400 Through 16:50.400 --> 16:50.680 The 16:50.680 --> 16:51.320 RC5 16:51.320 --> 16:51.820 Keys 16:51.820 --> 16:52.000 That 16:52.000 --> 16:52.100 It 16:52.100 --> 16:52.280 Needs 16:52.280 --> 16:52.700 Cracked 16:52.700 --> 16:53.460 Then 16:53.460 --> 16:53.580 It 16:53.580 --> 16:53.700 Will 16:53.700 --> 16:53.920 Run 16:53.920 --> 16:54.080 Through 16:54.080 --> 16:54.280 Some 16:54.280 --> 16:54.760 OGR 16:54.760 --> 16:55.080 Keys 16:55.080 --> 16:55.240 So 16:55.240 --> 16:55.340 You 16:55.340 --> 16:55.460 Need 16:55.460 --> 16:55.580 To 16:55.580 --> 16:55.980 Disable 16:55.980 --> 16:56.340 That 16:56.340 --> 16:57.160 So 16:57.160 --> 16:57.320 That 16:57.320 --> 16:57.480 What 16:57.480 --> 16:57.940 Happens 16:57.940 --> 16:58.080 Is 16:58.080 --> 16:58.340 Once 16:58.340 --> 16:58.480 It 16:58.480 --> 16:58.800 Finishes 16:58.800 --> 16:59.040 All 16:59.040 --> 16:59.160 It 16:59.160 --> 16:59.780 RC5 16:59.780 --> 16:59.900 It 16:59.900 --> 16:59.980 Will 16:59.980 --> 17:00.260 Grab 17:00.260 --> 17:00.620 More 17:00.620 --> 17:01.140 If 17:01.140 --> 17:01.260 You 17:01.260 --> 17:01.560 Don't 17:01.560 --> 17:01.980 Disable 17:01.980 --> 17:02.180 That 17:02.180 --> 17:02.360 By 17:02.360 --> 17:02.840 Default 17:02.840 --> 17:03.100 It 17:03.100 --> 17:03.180 Is 17:03.180 --> 17:03.460 Working 17:03.460 --> 17:03.620 On 17:03.620 --> 17:03.820 Two 17:03.820 --> 17:04.320 Projects 17:04.320 --> 17:04.380 And 17:04.380 --> 17:04.500 When 17:04.500 --> 17:04.600 It 17:04.600 --> 17:04.920 Finishes 17:04.920 --> 17:05.400 One 17:05.400 --> 17:06.060 It 17:06.060 --> 17:06.400 Starts 17:06.400 --> 17:06.500 On 17:06.500 --> 17:06.580 A 17:06.580 --> 17:06.760 Whole 17:06.760 --> 17:07.040 Different 17:07.040 --> 17:07.440 Project 17:07.440 --> 17:07.640 And 17:07.640 --> 17:07.740 It 17:07.740 --> 17:07.860 May 17:07.860 --> 17:08.100 Take 17:08.100 --> 17:08.200 It 17:08.200 --> 17:08.280 A 17:08.280 --> 17:08.460 Week 17:08.460 --> 17:08.620 To 17:08.620 --> 17:08.860 Crunch 17:08.860 --> 17:09.020 On 17:24.080 --> 17:24.520 And 17:24.520 --> 17:24.880 Make 17:24.880 --> 17:25.020 Sure 17:25.020 --> 17:25.100 You 17:25.100 --> 17:25.300 Got 17:25.300 --> 17:25.420 It 17:25.420 --> 17:25.740 Not 17:25.740 --> 17:25.940 Only 17:25.940 --> 17:26.280 Running 17:26.280 --> 17:26.480 But 17:26.480 --> 17:26.760 Running 17:26.760 --> 17:27.700 Efficiently 17:27.700 --> 17:29.280 So 17:29.280 --> 17:30.000 That's 17:30.000 --> 17:30.440 All 17:30.440 --> 17:30.680 For 17:30.680 --> 17:31.060 That 17:31.060 --> 17:31.780 And 17:31.780 --> 17:32.440 I 17:32.440 --> 17:32.680 Won't 17:32.680 --> 17:32.960 Bug 17:32.960 --> 17:33.240 Anybody 17:33.240 --> 17:33.540 About 17:33.540 --> 17:33.720 That 17:33.720 --> 17:33.840 For 17:33.840 --> 17:33.940 A 17:33.940 --> 17:34.100 Couple 17:34.100 --> 17:34.320 More 17:34.320 --> 17:34.740 Weeks 17:34.740 --> 17:36.300 Now 17:36.300 --> 17:37.620 We're 17:37.620 --> 17:37.700 Going 17:37.700 --> 17:37.760 To 17:37.760 --> 17:37.960 Move 17:37.960 --> 17:38.220 Into 17:38.220 --> 17:38.440 The 17:38.440 --> 17:38.740 Show 17:38.740 --> 17:38.980 And 17:38.980 --> 17:39.400 Tell 17:39.400 --> 17:39.860 Portion 17:39.860 --> 17:39.980 Of 17:39.980 --> 17:40.060 The 17:40.060 --> 17:40.260 Show 17:40.260 --> 17:40.400 As 17:40.400 --> 17:40.480 I 17:40.480 --> 17:40.640 Like 17:40.640 --> 17:40.760 To 17:40.760 --> 17:40.960 Call 17:40.960 --> 17:41.080 It 17:41.080 --> 17:41.240 Even 17:41.240 --> 17:41.400 Though 17:41.400 --> 17:41.540 I 17:41.540 --> 17:41.740 Can't 17:41.740 --> 17:42.240 Show 17:42.240 --> 17:42.540 Anything 17:42.540 --> 17:42.760 To 17:42.760 --> 17:42.860 The 17:42.860 --> 17:43.220 Listeners 17:43.220 --> 17:43.340 I 17:43.340 --> 17:43.480 Can 17:43.480 --> 17:43.920 Tell 17:43.920 --> 17:44.280 Them 17:44.280 --> 17:45.120 What 17:45.120 --> 17:45.340 We've 17:45.340 --> 17:45.460 Been 17:45.460 --> 17:45.780 Working 17:45.780 --> 17:46.040 On 17:46.040 --> 17:46.500 Recently 17:46.500 --> 17:47.420 And 17:47.420 --> 17:48.700 I 17:48.700 --> 17:49.620 Was 17:49.620 --> 17:50.000 Out 17:50.000 --> 17:50.120 Of 17:50.120 --> 17:50.380 Town 17:50.380 --> 17:50.600 This 17:50.600 --> 17:50.900 Weekend 17:50.900 --> 17:51.040 As 17:51.040 --> 17:51.260 Voodoo 17:51.260 --> 17:51.380 How 17:51.380 --> 17:51.680 Knows 17:51.680 --> 17:51.960 Because 17:51.960 --> 17:52.780 He 17:52.780 --> 17:53.000 Heard 17:53.000 --> 17:53.140 All 17:53.140 --> 17:53.260 The 17:53.260 --> 17:53.560 Background 17:53.560 --> 17:53.940 Noise 17:53.940 --> 17:54.220 From 17:54.220 --> 17:54.400 Where 17:54.400 --> 17:54.620 I 17:54.620 --> 17:54.900 Was 17:54.900 --> 17:56.660 And 17:56.660 --> 17:56.960 While 17:56.960 --> 17:57.140 I 17:57.140 --> 17:57.280 Was 17:57.280 --> 17:57.440 Out 17:57.440 --> 17:57.540 I 17:57.540 --> 17:57.660 Was 17:57.660 --> 17:57.780 Just 17:57.780 --> 17:58.160 Basically 17:58.160 --> 17:58.480 Doing 17:58.480 --> 17:58.720 Some 17:58.720 --> 17:59.060 Retail 17:59.060 --> 17:59.480 Hacking 17:59.480 --> 17:59.720 Which 17:59.720 --> 17:59.900 Is 17:59.900 --> 18:00.440 I 18:00.440 --> 18:00.540 Don't 18:00.540 --> 18:00.620 Know 18:00.620 --> 18:00.760 It's 18:00.760 --> 18:00.940 Almost 18:00.940 --> 18:01.540 Subconscious 18:01.540 --> 18:01.780 Now 18:01.780 --> 18:01.900 I 18:01.900 --> 18:02.040 Just 18:02.040 --> 18:02.220 Do 18:02.220 --> 18:02.340 It 18:02.340 --> 18:02.580 Everywhere 18:02.580 --> 18:02.800 I 18:02.800 --> 18:02.980 Go 18:02.980 --> 18:03.580 Anyway 18:03.580 --> 18:04.620 I 18:04.620 --> 18:04.980 Posted 18:04.980 --> 18:05.240 Something 18:05.240 --> 18:05.380 In 18:05.380 --> 18:05.460 The 18:05.460 --> 18:05.780 Forms 18:05.780 --> 18:05.880 That 18:05.880 --> 18:05.960 I 18:05.960 --> 18:06.080 Was 18:06.080 --> 18:06.180 At 18:06.180 --> 18:06.300 The 18:06.300 --> 18:06.720 UPS 18:06.720 --> 18:07.060 Office 18:07.060 --> 18:07.300 And 18:07.300 --> 18:07.420 They 18:07.420 --> 18:07.660 Had 18:07.660 --> 18:07.920 Some 18:07.920 --> 18:08.660 Systems 18:08.660 --> 18:09.160 There 18:09.160 --> 18:09.980 Didn't 18:09.980 --> 18:10.100 Have 18:10.100 --> 18:10.200 A 18:10.200 --> 18:10.400 Whole 18:10.400 --> 18:10.560 Lot 18:10.560 --> 18:10.640 Of 18:10.640 --> 18:10.860 Time 18:10.860 --> 18:10.980 To 18:10.980 --> 18:11.160 Play 18:11.160 --> 18:11.360 With 18:11.360 --> 18:11.460 Them 18:11.460 --> 18:11.600 But 18:11.600 --> 18:11.700 I 18:11.700 --> 18:11.960 Played 18:11.960 --> 18:12.060 With 18:12.060 --> 18:12.160 Them 18:12.160 --> 18:12.340 Just 18:12.340 --> 18:12.440 To 18:12.440 --> 18:12.600 See 18:12.600 --> 18:12.760 What 18:12.760 --> 18:12.880 They 18:12.880 --> 18:13.060 Were 18:13.060 --> 18:13.280 Just 18:13.280 --> 18:13.640 Curiosity 18:13.640 --> 18:14.240 Factor 18:14.240 --> 18:14.400 To 18:14.400 --> 18:14.520 See 18:14.520 --> 18:14.700 What 18:14.700 --> 18:14.860 They're 18:14.860 --> 18:15.100 Running 18:15.100 --> 18:15.280 And 18:15.280 --> 18:15.400 What 18:15.400 --> 18:15.540 They're 18:15.540 --> 18:15.820 Doing 18:15.820 --> 18:17.100 I 18:17.100 --> 18:17.260 Was 18:17.260 --> 18:17.440 Up 18:17.440 --> 18:17.740 In 18:17.740 --> 18:18.340 Orlando 18:18.340 --> 18:18.860 Florida 18:18.860 --> 18:20.400 For 18:20.400 --> 18:20.560 The 18:20.560 --> 18:21.000 Weekend 18:21.000 --> 18:21.200 And 18:21.200 --> 18:21.380 In 18:21.380 --> 18:21.460 The 18:21.460 --> 18:21.800 Hotel 18:21.800 --> 18:22.040 Room 18:22.040 --> 18:22.280 There 18:22.280 --> 18:22.420 I 18:22.420 --> 18:22.580 Guess 18:22.580 --> 18:22.920 It's 18:22.920 --> 18:23.080 Not 18:23.080 --> 18:23.440 Really 18:23.440 --> 18:23.980 Retail 18:23.980 --> 18:24.340 Hacking 18:24.340 --> 18:24.520 I 18:24.520 --> 18:24.760 Guess 18:24.760 --> 18:24.920 It's 18:24.920 --> 18:25.000 A 18:25.000 --> 18:25.380 Hotel 18:25.380 --> 18:25.580 But 18:25.580 --> 18:25.920 I 18:25.920 --> 18:26.060 Guess 18:26.060 --> 18:26.200 It 18:26.200 --> 18:26.540 Kind 18:26.540 --> 18:26.820 Of 18:26.820 --> 18:27.220 I 18:27.220 --> 18:27.360 Don't 18:27.360 --> 18:27.480 Know 18:27.480 --> 18:27.600 If 18:27.600 --> 18:27.700 It 18:27.700 --> 18:28.900 Classifies 18:28.900 --> 18:29.060 Or 18:29.060 --> 18:29.240 Not 18:29.240 --> 18:29.420 But 18:29.420 --> 18:29.760 Anyway 18:29.760 --> 18:31.720 Did 18:31.720 --> 18:31.840 A 18:31.840 --> 18:32.000 Little 18:32.000 --> 18:32.360 Some 18:32.360 --> 18:32.920 Checking 18:32.920 --> 18:33.060 Out 18:33.060 --> 18:33.200 Some 18:33.200 --> 18:33.580 Information 18:33.580 --> 18:33.740 In 18:33.740 --> 18:33.820 The 18:33.820 --> 18:34.160 Hotel 18:34.160 --> 18:34.640 Room 18:34.640 --> 18:36.060 Wrote 18:36.060 --> 18:36.300 Down 18:36.300 --> 18:36.660 Some 18:36.660 --> 18:37.460 Numbers 18:37.460 --> 18:37.600 And 18:37.600 --> 18:37.740 Some 18:37.740 --> 18:38.200 Information 18:38.200 --> 18:38.400 I 18:38.400 --> 18:38.600 Don't 18:38.600 --> 18:39.280 Quite 18:39.280 --> 18:39.520 Want 18:39.520 --> 18:39.620 To 18:39.620 --> 18:39.980 Reveal 18:39.980 --> 18:40.580 Yet 18:40.580 --> 18:41.760 And 18:41.760 --> 18:42.180 Probably 18:42.180 --> 18:43.300 Even 18:43.300 --> 18:43.800 Even 18:43.800 --> 18:43.980 For 18:43.980 --> 18:44.360 Hackers 18:44.360 --> 18:44.520 It's 18:44.520 --> 18:44.860 Probably 18:44.860 --> 18:45.280 Boring 18:45.280 --> 18:45.600 But 18:45.600 --> 18:46.300 Some 18:46.300 --> 18:46.680 Research 18:46.680 --> 18:46.840 I 18:46.840 --> 18:46.940 Want 18:46.940 --> 18:47.020 To 18:47.020 --> 18:47.120 Do 18:47.120 --> 18:47.280 Some 18:47.280 --> 18:47.540 Follow 18:47.540 --> 18:47.720 Up 18:47.720 --> 18:47.980 Stuff 18:47.980 --> 18:48.260 On 18:48.260 --> 18:49.000 Basically 18:49.000 --> 18:49.220 The 18:49.220 --> 18:49.940 Hotels 18:49.940 --> 18:50.940 On 18:50.940 --> 18:51.380 Demand 18:51.380 --> 18:51.860 System 18:51.860 --> 18:52.980 So 18:52.980 --> 18:53.080 I 18:53.080 --> 18:53.200 Going 18:53.200 --> 18:53.240 To 18:53.240 --> 18:53.360 Do 18:53.360 --> 18:53.420 A 18:53.420 --> 18:53.740 Research 18:53.740 --> 18:54.000 On 18:54.000 --> 18:54.180 That 18:57.360 --> 18:57.740 That 18:57.740 --> 18:58.580 I 18:58.580 --> 18:59.160 Just 18:59.160 --> 18:59.680 Today 18:59.680 --> 18:59.980 As A 18:59.980 --> 19:00.180 Matter 19:00.180 --> 19:00.340 Of 19:00.340 --> 19:00.640 Fact 19:00.640 --> 19:02.040 Got 19:02.040 --> 19:02.220 In 19:02.220 --> 19:02.360 An 19:02.360 --> 19:02.580 Order 19:02.580 --> 19:02.740 I 19:02.740 --> 19:02.880 Had 19:02.880 --> 19:03.120 Put 19:03.120 --> 19:03.360 In 19:03.360 --> 19:03.640 With 19:03.640 --> 19:04.120 Black 19:04.120 --> 19:04.600 Listed 19:04.600 --> 19:05.200 411 19:05.200 --> 19:05.820 Magazine 19:05.820 --> 19:07.160 Which 19:07.160 --> 19:07.320 I 19:07.320 --> 19:07.740 Think 19:07.740 --> 19:07.960 We've 19:07.960 --> 19:08.220 Talked 19:08.220 --> 19:08.440 About 19:08.440 --> 19:08.580 On 19:08.580 --> 19:08.700 The 19:08.700 --> 19:08.900 Show 19:08.900 --> 19:09.360 Before 19:09.360 --> 19:09.580 But 19:09.580 --> 19:09.720 If 19:09.720 --> 19:10.020 Not 19:10.020 --> 19:10.220 Here 19:10.220 --> 19:10.360 We 19:10.360 --> 19:10.600 Go 19:10.600 --> 19:11.440 Black 19:11.440 --> 19:11.980 Listed 19:11.980 --> 19:12.520 411 19:12.520 --> 19:13.100 Was 19:13.100 --> 19:13.600 A 19:13.600 --> 19:14.240 Hacker 19:14.240 --> 19:14.860 Magazine 19:14.860 --> 19:15.300 That 19:15.300 --> 19:15.640 Came 19:15.640 --> 19:15.960 Out 19:15.960 --> 19:16.540 I 19:16.540 --> 19:16.820 Don't 19:16.820 --> 19:17.040 Know 19:17.040 --> 19:17.160 When 19:17.160 --> 19:17.300 They 19:17.300 --> 19:18.000 Officially 19:18.000 --> 19:18.480 Started 19:18.480 --> 19:18.660 But 19:18.660 --> 19:18.880 I 19:18.880 --> 19:19.180 Remember 19:19.180 --> 19:19.500 Seeing 19:19.500 --> 19:19.640 Them 19:19.640 --> 19:20.080 Around 19:20.080 --> 19:21.780 95 19:21.780 --> 19:22.340 96 19:22.340 --> 19:23.340 Somewhere 19:23.340 --> 19:23.540 In 19:23.540 --> 19:23.700 That 19:23.700 --> 19:24.280 Range 19:24.280 --> 19:24.920 And 19:24.920 --> 19:25.820 At 19:25.820 --> 19:26.040 That 19:26.040 --> 19:26.340 Point 19:26.340 --> 19:26.540 They 19:26.540 --> 19:26.780 Were 19:26.780 --> 19:28.100 Let's 19:28.100 --> 19:28.260 See 19:28.260 --> 19:28.560 Actually 19:28.560 --> 19:28.640 I 19:28.640 --> 19:28.840 Look 19:28.840 --> 19:29.540 At 19:29.540 --> 19:29.680 One 19:29.680 --> 19:29.780 I 19:29.780 --> 19:29.900 Have 19:29.900 --> 19:30.080 Right 19:30.080 --> 19:30.320 Now 19:30.320 --> 19:30.620 It's 19:30.620 --> 19:31.680 January 19:31.680 --> 19:32.420 95 19:32.420 --> 19:32.980 Volume 19:32.980 --> 19:33.440 2 19:33.440 --> 19:33.860 Issue 19:33.860 --> 19:34.240 1 19:34.240 --> 19:34.460 So 19:34.460 --> 19:34.560 I 19:34.560 --> 19:34.700 Guess 19:34.700 --> 19:34.840 There 19:34.840 --> 19:34.920 Was 19:34.920 --> 19:35.020 A 19:35.020 --> 19:35.300 Volume 19:35.300 --> 19:35.860 1 19:35.860 --> 19:36.840 One 19:36.840 --> 19:37.040 Year 19:37.040 --> 19:37.260 Earlier 19:37.260 --> 19:37.400 So 19:37.400 --> 19:37.480 I 19:37.480 --> 19:37.620 Guess 19:37.620 --> 19:37.740 They 19:37.740 --> 19:37.880 Must 19:37.880 --> 19:37.980 Have 19:37.980 --> 19:38.160 Started 19:38.160 --> 19:38.980 94 19:38.980 --> 19:40.420 Possibly 19:40.420 --> 19:40.840 93 19:40.840 --> 19:41.000 I 19:41.000 --> 19:41.100 Don't 19:41.100 --> 19:41.220 Know 19:41.220 --> 19:41.320 What 19:41.320 --> 19:41.420 Their 19:41.420 --> 19:41.760 Numbering 19:41.760 --> 19:41.980 Scheme 19:41.980 --> 19:42.200 Is 19:42.200 --> 19:43.020 But 19:43.020 --> 19:43.360 Anyway 19:43.360 --> 19:43.640 This 19:43.640 --> 19:43.780 Was 19:43.780 --> 19:43.900 A 19:43.900 --> 19:44.240 Magazine 19:44.240 --> 19:44.440 It's 19:44.440 --> 19:44.540 The 19:44.540 --> 19:44.780 Same 19:44.780 --> 19:45.340 Format 19:45.340 --> 19:45.500 It's 19:45.500 --> 19:46.360 2600 19:46.360 --> 19:46.600 In 19:46.600 --> 19:46.940 Binary 19:46.940 --> 19:47.560 Revolution 19:47.560 --> 19:48.680 I 19:48.680 --> 19:49.020 Think 19:49.020 --> 19:49.200 The 19:49.200 --> 19:49.420 Same 19:49.420 --> 19:49.820 Company 19:49.820 --> 19:49.980 I 19:56.340 --> 19:56.540 Put 19:56.540 --> 19:56.740 That 19:56.740 --> 19:56.940 Out 19:56.940 --> 19:57.100 But 19:57.100 --> 19:57.200 I 19:57.200 --> 19:57.320 Don't 19:57.320 --> 19:57.500 Think 19:57.500 --> 19:57.620 It 19:57.620 --> 19:58.080 Lasted 19:58.080 --> 19:58.320 Very 19:58.320 --> 19:58.760 Long 19:58.760 --> 19:59.760 And 19:59.760 --> 20:00.200 Actually 20:00.200 --> 20:01.020 Blacklisted 20:01.020 --> 20:01.440 I 20:01.440 --> 20:01.880 Think 20:01.880 --> 20:02.440 Didn't 20:02.440 --> 20:02.860 Last 20:02.860 --> 20:03.360 Too 20:03.360 --> 20:03.660 Awful 20:03.660 --> 20:04.000 Long 20:04.000 --> 20:05.020 See 20:05.020 --> 20:05.180 The 20:05.180 --> 20:05.600 Last 20:05.600 --> 20:06.060 Issue 20:06.060 --> 20:06.260 That 20:06.260 --> 20:06.700 I 20:06.700 --> 20:07.040 Can 20:07.040 --> 20:07.540 Figure 20:07.540 --> 20:07.800 Out 20:07.800 --> 20:07.980 Was 20:07.980 --> 20:08.700 98 20:08.700 --> 20:09.920 And 20:09.920 --> 20:10.040 Then 20:10.040 --> 20:10.180 They 20:10.180 --> 20:10.700 Disappeared 20:10.700 --> 20:10.920 From 20:10.920 --> 20:11.600 Bookshelves 20:11.600 --> 20:11.720 Do 20:11.720 --> 20:11.740 You 20:11.740 --> 20:11.880 Have 20:11.880 --> 20:12.060 Any 20:12.060 --> 20:12.660 Information 20:12.660 --> 20:12.840 To 20:12.840 --> 20:12.940 The 20:12.940 --> 20:13.400 Contrary 20:13.400 --> 20:14.220 No 20:14.220 --> 20:14.340 I 20:14.340 --> 20:14.440 Have 20:14.440 --> 20:14.660 Actually 20:14.660 --> 20:14.860 Never 20:14.860 --> 20:15.080 Even 20:15.080 --> 20:15.260 Heard 20:15.260 --> 20:15.380 Of 20:15.380 --> 20:15.560 Them 20:15.560 --> 20:15.980 Oh 20:15.980 --> 20:16.260 Really 20:16.260 --> 20:16.540 Yeah 20:16.540 --> 20:16.700 They 20:16.700 --> 20:16.940 Were 20:16.940 --> 20:18.220 Similar 20:18.220 --> 20:18.680 Format 20:18.680 --> 20:18.800 To 20:18.800 --> 20:19.520 2600 20:19.520 --> 20:21.040 All 20:21.040 --> 20:21.720 From 20:21.720 --> 20:21.880 What 20:21.880 --> 20:22.000 I 20:22.000 --> 20:22.240 Remember 20:22.240 --> 20:22.360 They 20:22.360 --> 20:22.420 Were 20:22.420 --> 20:22.540 All 20:22.540 --> 20:22.780 Black 20:22.780 --> 20:22.900 And 20:22.900 --> 20:23.040 White 20:23.040 --> 20:23.480 Covers 20:23.480 --> 20:24.080 And 20:24.080 --> 20:24.220 All 20:24.220 --> 20:24.440 Black 20:24.440 --> 20:24.560 And 20:24.560 --> 20:24.700 White 20:24.700 --> 20:25.100 Interior 20:25.100 --> 20:26.540 When 20:26.540 --> 20:27.120 Thud 20:27.120 --> 20:27.400 The 20:27.400 --> 20:27.680 Hackers 20:27.680 --> 20:27.960 Underground 20:27.960 --> 20:28.520 Digest 20:28.520 --> 20:28.720 Which 20:28.720 --> 20:28.860 I 20:28.860 --> 20:29.020 Think 20:29.020 --> 20:29.160 Was 20:29.160 --> 20:29.340 Made 20:29.340 --> 20:29.480 By 20:29.480 --> 20:29.640 Them 20:29.640 --> 20:29.920 That 20:29.920 --> 20:30.100 I 20:30.100 --> 20:30.360 Remember 20:30.360 --> 20:30.680 Having 20:30.680 --> 20:30.980 Color 20:30.980 --> 20:31.440 Covers 20:31.440 --> 20:32.380 But 20:32.380 --> 20:32.640 At 20:32.640 --> 20:32.820 Least 20:32.820 --> 20:33.000 The 20:33.000 --> 20:33.900 I 20:33.900 --> 20:34.060 Think 20:34.060 --> 20:34.160 I 20:34.160 --> 20:34.240 Have 20:34.240 --> 20:34.700 Two 20:34.700 --> 20:34.920 Of 20:34.920 --> 20:35.300 Those 20:35.300 --> 20:35.760 Two 20:35.760 --> 20:36.080 Issues 20:36.080 --> 20:36.220 Of 20:36.220 --> 20:36.420 That 20:36.420 --> 20:37.420 And 20:37.420 --> 20:37.880 I 20:37.880 --> 20:38.400 Remember 20:38.400 --> 20:39.360 That 20:39.360 --> 20:39.560 Had 20:39.560 --> 20:39.860 Color 20:39.860 --> 20:40.340 Covers 20:40.340 --> 20:40.540 But 20:40.540 --> 20:40.660 I 20:40.660 --> 20:40.820 Think 20:40.820 --> 20:41.420 Blacklisted 20:41.420 --> 20:41.580 I 20:41.580 --> 20:41.720 Don't 20:41.720 --> 20:41.980 Think 20:41.980 --> 20:42.120 They 20:42.120 --> 20:42.300 Ever 20:42.300 --> 20:42.660 Started 20:42.660 --> 20:42.880 With 20:42.880 --> 20:43.220 Color 20:43.220 --> 20:44.000 Until 20:44.000 --> 20:44.560 Apparently 20:44.560 --> 20:45.040 Recently 20:45.040 --> 20:45.280 They 20:45.280 --> 20:45.380 Have 20:45.380 --> 20:45.560 Come 20:45.560 --> 20:45.800 Back 20:45.800 --> 20:46.100 Out 20:46.100 --> 20:46.700 And 20:46.700 --> 20:47.620 You 20:47.620 --> 20:47.720 Know 20:47.720 --> 20:47.880 What 20:47.880 --> 20:48.160 Forgive 20:48.160 --> 20:48.460 Me 20:48.460 --> 20:48.600 I 20:48.600 --> 20:48.760 Did 20:48.760 --> 20:49.020 Not 20:49.020 --> 20:49.260 Write 20:49.260 --> 20:49.700 Down 20:49.700 --> 20:50.020 The 20:50.020 --> 20:50.420 URL 20:50.420 --> 20:50.660 But 20:50.660 --> 20:50.780 I 20:50.780 --> 20:51.040 Think 20:51.040 --> 20:51.500 It's 20:51.500 --> 20:54.520 Blacklisted 20:54.520 --> 20:55.100 Mag 20:55.100 --> 20:55.680 Dot 20:55.680 --> 20:56.040 Net 20:56.040 --> 20:56.200 But 20:56.200 --> 20:56.340 I 20:56.340 --> 20:56.580 Wouldn't 20:56.580 --> 20:56.860 Square 20:56.860 --> 20:57.020 By 20:57.020 --> 20:57.120 That 20:57.120 --> 20:57.280 I'll 20:57.280 --> 20:57.520 Post 20:57.520 --> 20:57.660 In 20:57.660 --> 20:57.760 The 20:57.760 --> 20:57.920 Show 20:57.920 --> 20:58.140 Notes 20:58.140 --> 20:58.320 The 20:58.320 --> 20:58.520 Site 20:58.520 --> 20:58.660 To 20:58.660 --> 20:59.200 Blacklisted 20:59.200 --> 20:59.760 They 20:59.760 --> 20:59.860 Are 20:59.860 --> 21:00.100 Another 21:00.100 --> 21:00.540 Hacking 21:00.540 --> 21:00.980 Zine 21:00.980 --> 21:01.220 And 21:01.220 --> 21:01.580 Apparently 21:01.580 --> 21:01.820 They're 21:01.820 --> 21:02.140 Coming 21:02.140 --> 21:02.580 Back 21:02.580 --> 21:03.040 Around 21:03.040 --> 21:03.420 Coming 21:03.420 --> 21:04.160 I 21:04.160 --> 21:04.220 Don't 21:04.220 --> 21:04.320 If 21:04.320 --> 21:04.400 I 21:04.400 --> 21:04.520 Should 21:04.520 --> 21:04.640 Say 21:04.640 --> 21:04.920 Back 21:04.920 --> 21:05.040 In 21:05.040 --> 21:05.380 Business 21:05.380 --> 21:05.620 But 21:05.620 --> 21:05.800 They're 21:05.800 --> 21:06.440 Releasing 21:06.440 --> 21:06.960 Hacking 21:06.960 --> 21:07.560 Magazines 21:07.560 --> 21:08.080 Again 21:08.080 --> 21:09.280 So 21:09.280 --> 21:09.700 I 21:09.700 --> 21:10.040 Ordered 21:10.040 --> 21:10.200 Some 21:10.200 --> 21:10.300 Of 21:10.300 --> 21:10.520 The 21:10.520 --> 21:10.980 Back 21:10.980 --> 21:11.280 Issues 21:11.280 --> 21:11.440 That 21:11.440 --> 21:11.560 I 21:11.560 --> 21:11.720 Was 21:11.720 --> 21:12.240 Missing 21:12.240 --> 21:13.200 And 21:13.200 --> 21:13.460 Got 21:13.460 --> 21:13.640 Them 21:13.640 --> 21:13.860 Pretty 21:13.860 --> 21:14.220 Quickly 21:14.220 --> 21:14.860 I 21:14.860 --> 21:15.060 Didn't 21:15.060 --> 21:15.200 Get 21:15.200 --> 21:15.340 The 21:15.340 --> 21:15.720 Current 21:15.720 --> 21:16.100 Issue 21:16.100 --> 21:16.300 They 21:16.300 --> 21:16.540 Said 21:16.540 --> 21:16.680 They 21:16.680 --> 21:16.820 Were 21:16.820 --> 21:17.040 Out 21:17.040 --> 21:17.140 Of 21:17.140 --> 21:17.280 Them 21:17.280 --> 21:17.520 Right 21:17.520 --> 21:17.900 Now 21:17.900 --> 21:18.540 Temporarily 21:18.540 --> 21:18.680 And 21:18.680 --> 21:18.760 They're 21:18.760 --> 21:18.920 Having 21:18.920 --> 21:19.100 More 21:19.100 --> 21:19.540 Printed 21:19.540 --> 21:20.420 So 21:20.420 --> 21:20.580 I 21:20.580 --> 21:20.700 Don't 21:20.700 --> 21:20.820 Know 21:20.820 --> 21:20.960 What 21:20.960 --> 21:21.060 Their 21:21.060 --> 21:21.380 Current 21:21.380 --> 21:21.880 Issues 21:21.880 --> 21:22.100 Their 21:22.100 --> 21:22.420 Second 21:22.420 --> 21:23.180 Incarnation 21:23.180 --> 21:23.360 If 21:23.360 --> 21:23.540 They're 21:23.540 --> 21:23.700 Any 21:23.700 --> 21:24.020 Good 21:24.020 --> 21:24.180 Or 21:24.180 --> 21:24.320 What 21:24.320 --> 21:24.420 The 21:24.420 --> 21:24.760 Content 21:24.760 --> 21:25.000 Is 21:25.000 --> 21:25.320 Like 21:25.320 --> 21:25.660 But 21:25.660 --> 21:26.400 If 21:26.400 --> 21:26.520 And 21:26.520 --> 21:26.700 When 21:26.700 --> 21:26.840 I 21:26.840 --> 21:27.080 Get 21:27.080 --> 21:27.220 It 21:27.220 --> 21:27.420 I 21:27.420 --> 21:27.600 Will 21:27.600 --> 21:27.860 Read 21:27.860 --> 21:28.000 It 21:28.000 --> 21:28.120 And 21:28.120 --> 21:28.400 Review 21:28.400 --> 21:28.600 It 21:28.600 --> 21:28.760 And 21:28.760 --> 21:29.120 Talk 21:29.120 --> 21:29.320 About 21:29.320 --> 21:29.420 It 21:29.420 --> 21:29.520 On 21:29.520 --> 21:29.640 The 21:29.640 --> 21:29.900 Show 21:29.900 --> 21:30.080 And 21:30.080 --> 21:30.180 If 21:30.180 --> 21:30.300 Any 21:30.300 --> 21:30.400 Of 21:30.400 --> 21:30.480 The 21:30.480 --> 21:30.860 Listeners 21:30.860 --> 21:31.140 Have 21:31.140 --> 21:31.320 It 21:31.320 --> 21:31.960 Or 21:31.960 --> 21:32.240 Wanted 21:32.240 --> 21:32.320 To 21:32.320 --> 21:32.460 Make 21:32.460 --> 21:32.840 Comments 21:32.840 --> 21:33.080 About 21:33.080 --> 21:33.220 It 21:33.220 --> 21:33.440 By 21:33.440 --> 21:33.600 All 21:33.600 --> 21:33.820 Means 21:33.820 --> 21:34.200 Email 21:34.200 --> 21:34.540 Us 21:34.540 --> 21:35.620 Radio 21:35.620 --> 21:36.620 At 21:36.620 --> 21:37.060 Binrev 21:37.060 --> 21:37.320 Dot 21:37.320 --> 21:37.640 Com 21:37.640 --> 21:37.800 In 21:37.800 --> 21:37.980 Case 21:37.980 --> 21:38.080 You 21:38.080 --> 21:38.240 Don't 21:38.240 --> 21:38.360 Know 21:38.360 --> 21:38.460 It 21:38.460 --> 21:38.600 By 21:38.600 --> 21:38.860 Now 21:38.860 --> 21:40.320 This 21:40.320 --> 21:40.480 Is 21:40.480 --> 21:40.900 Blacklisted 21:40.900 --> 21:41.340 411 21:41.340 --> 21:41.660 Right 21:41.660 --> 21:42.220 It's 21:42.220 --> 21:42.820 Blacklisted 21:42.820 --> 21:43.560 411 21:43.560 --> 21:44.300 Magazine 21:44.300 --> 21:45.080 The 21:45.080 --> 21:45.440 URL 21:45.440 --> 21:45.840 Is 21:45.840 --> 21:48.580 www.blacklisted411.net 21:48.580 --> 21:49.200 Dot 21:49.200 --> 21:49.500 Okay 21:49.500 --> 21:52.080 Blacklisted411.net 21:52.080 --> 21:53.820 And 21:53.820 --> 21:53.920 You 21:57.860 --> 21:58.340 They've 21:58.340 --> 21:58.540 Done 21:58.540 --> 21:58.720 This 21:58.720 --> 21:59.120 Before 21:59.120 --> 21:59.520 Again 21:59.520 --> 21:59.960 They've 21:59.960 --> 22:00.520 Like I 22:00.520 --> 22:00.640 Said 22:00.640 --> 22:00.760 They 22:00.760 --> 22:00.880 Were 22:00.880 --> 22:01.100 Out 22:01.100 --> 22:01.540 Before 22:01.540 --> 22:01.780 They 22:01.780 --> 22:01.900 Were 22:01.900 --> 22:02.240 Carried 22:02.240 --> 22:02.600 In 22:02.600 --> 22:03.640 I 22:03.640 --> 22:03.740 Don't 22:03.740 --> 22:03.860 Know 22:03.860 --> 22:04.100 Which 22:04.100 --> 22:04.500 Chains 22:04.500 --> 22:04.660 But 22:04.660 --> 22:04.780 They 22:04.780 --> 22:04.900 Were 22:04.900 --> 22:05.160 Carried 22:05.160 --> 22:05.320 In 22:05.320 --> 22:05.620 Major 22:05.620 --> 22:06.080 Bookstore 22:06.080 --> 22:06.480 Chains 22:06.480 --> 22:06.640 I 22:06.640 --> 22:06.880 Remember 22:06.880 --> 22:07.160 Seeing 22:07.160 --> 22:07.280 It 22:07.280 --> 22:07.500 Next 22:07.500 --> 22:07.640 To 22:07.640 --> 22:08.680 2600 22:08.680 --> 22:09.200 Magazines 22:09.200 --> 22:09.480 So 22:09.480 --> 22:10.140 They 22:10.140 --> 22:10.380 Have 22:10.380 --> 22:10.520 The 22:10.520 --> 22:10.980 Connections 22:10.980 --> 22:11.120 And 22:11.120 --> 22:11.260 They 22:11.260 --> 22:11.420 Are 22:11.420 --> 22:11.680 Out 22:11.680 --> 22:11.880 There 22:11.880 --> 22:12.040 So 22:12.040 --> 22:12.200 You 22:12.200 --> 22:12.600 Might 22:12.600 --> 22:12.780 Be 22:12.780 --> 22:12.920 Able 22:12.920 --> 22:13.040 To 22:13.040 --> 22:13.220 Find 22:13.220 --> 22:13.420 Those 22:13.420 --> 22:13.540 In 22:13.540 --> 22:13.660 Your 22:13.660 --> 22:14.020 Local 22:14.020 --> 22:15.240 Bookstore 22:15.240 --> 22:15.360 In 22:15.360 --> 22:15.440 The 22:15.440 --> 22:15.760 Magazine 22:15.760 --> 22:16.240 Section 22:16.240 --> 22:16.680 So 22:16.680 --> 22:17.000 Keep 22:17.000 --> 22:17.120 An 22:17.120 --> 22:17.240 Eye 22:17.240 --> 22:17.400 Out 22:17.400 --> 22:17.580 For 22:17.580 --> 22:17.680 It 22:17.680 --> 22:17.800 But 22:17.800 --> 22:17.920 If 22:17.920 --> 22:18.140 Not 22:18.140 --> 22:18.280 I 22:18.280 --> 22:18.440 Think 22:18.440 --> 22:18.580 You 22:18.580 --> 22:18.860 Can 22:18.860 --> 22:19.140 Order 22:19.140 --> 22:19.580 Online 22:19.580 --> 22:19.780 As 22:19.780 --> 22:19.940 Well 22:19.940 --> 22:20.060 I'm 22:20.060 --> 22:20.220 Not 22:20.220 --> 22:20.460 Sure 22:20.460 --> 22:22.200 So 22:22.200 --> 22:23.560 I 22:23.560 --> 22:24.100 Just 22:24.100 --> 22:24.340 Got 22:24.340 --> 22:24.580 Those 22:24.580 --> 22:24.920 Today 22:24.920 --> 22:25.420 And 22:25.420 --> 22:25.520 I 22:25.520 --> 22:25.700 Don't 22:25.700 --> 22:26.180 Know 22:26.180 --> 22:27.760 I'm 22:27.760 --> 22:28.020 Actually 22:28.020 --> 22:28.260 Kind 22:28.260 --> 22:28.360 Of 22:28.360 --> 22:28.660 Curious 22:28.660 --> 22:28.840 I'm 22:28.840 --> 22:28.920 Going 22:28.920 --> 22:28.980 To 22:28.980 --> 22:29.080 Go 22:29.080 --> 22:29.300 Back 22:29.300 --> 22:29.420 And 22:29.420 --> 22:29.580 Read 22:29.580 --> 22:29.760 These 22:29.760 --> 22:29.900 From 22:29.900 --> 22:30.440 95 22:30.440 --> 22:30.920 96 22:30.920 --> 22:31.320 And 22:31.320 --> 22:31.520 See 22:31.520 --> 22:31.700 What 22:31.700 --> 22:31.880 Kind 22:31.880 --> 22:31.960 Of 22:31.960 --> 22:32.380 Information 22:32.380 --> 22:32.620 Is 22:32.620 --> 22:32.780 In 22:32.780 --> 22:32.940 There 22:32.940 --> 22:33.200 It's 22:33.200 --> 22:34.180 Probably 22:34.180 --> 22:34.920 Outdated 22:34.920 --> 22:35.180 But 22:35.180 --> 22:35.280 You 22:35.280 --> 22:35.480 Never 22:35.480 --> 22:35.660 Know 22:35.660 --> 22:35.780 You 22:35.780 --> 22:35.920 May 22:35.920 --> 22:36.180 Find 22:36.180 --> 22:36.460 Something 22:36.460 --> 22:36.640 In 22:36.640 --> 22:36.780 There 22:36.780 --> 22:37.180 That's 22:37.180 --> 22:37.840 If 22:37.840 --> 22:38.100 Nothing 22:38.100 --> 22:38.360 Else 22:38.360 --> 22:38.960 Nostalgic 22:38.960 --> 22:39.220 If 22:39.220 --> 22:39.440 Nothing 22:39.440 --> 22:39.840 Else 22:39.840 --> 22:41.000 So 22:41.000 --> 22:41.280 That's 22:41.280 --> 22:41.360 What 22:41.360 --> 22:41.520 I'm 22:41.520 --> 22:41.760 Going 22:41.760 --> 22:41.900 To 22:41.900 --> 22:42.040 Be 22:42.040 --> 22:42.300 Doing 22:42.300 --> 22:42.500 Over 22:42.500 --> 22:42.620 The 22:42.620 --> 22:42.800 Next 22:42.800 --> 22:43.020 Few 22:43.020 --> 22:43.480 Days 22:43.480 --> 22:44.080 And 22:44.080 --> 22:46.080 I 22:46.080 --> 22:46.320 Guess 22:46.320 --> 22:46.620 That's 22:46.620 --> 22:46.840 It 22:46.840 --> 22:47.040 For 22:47.040 --> 22:47.260 Me 22:47.260 --> 22:47.560 Nothing 22:47.560 --> 22:48.060 Super 22:48.060 --> 22:48.580 Duper 22:48.580 --> 22:49.140 Exciting 22:49.140 --> 22:50.840 Like 22:50.840 --> 22:51.000 You 22:51.000 --> 22:51.120 Know 22:51.120 --> 22:51.340 Setting 22:51.340 --> 22:51.520 Up 22:51.520 --> 22:51.640 A 22:51.640 --> 22:51.880 Counter 22:51.880 --> 22:52.180 Strike 22:52.180 --> 22:52.620 Server 22:52.620 --> 22:55.020 Nice 22:55.020 --> 22:55.520 Segway 22:55.520 --> 22:55.760 There 22:55.760 --> 22:55.860 You 22:55.860 --> 22:56.160 Go 22:56.160 --> 22:57.660 Yep 22:57.660 --> 22:57.960 That's 22:57.960 --> 22:58.580 Basically 22:58.580 --> 22:59.100 What 22:59.100 --> 22:59.340 I'm 22:59.340 --> 23:00.840 That's 23:00.840 --> 23:01.220 Pretty 23:01.220 --> 23:01.400 Much 23:01.400 --> 23:01.920 All 23:01.920 --> 23:02.040 I've 23:02.040 --> 23:02.240 Done 23:02.240 --> 23:02.760 Oh 23:02.760 --> 23:03.140 No 23:03.140 --> 23:03.320 It's 23:03.320 --> 23:03.520 Not 23:03.520 --> 23:04.160 Exciting 23:04.160 --> 23:04.880 Okay 23:04.880 --> 23:05.160 Yeah 23:05.160 --> 23:05.500 Whatever 23:05.500 --> 23:07.400 We're 23:07.400 --> 23:07.600 Setting 23:07.600 --> 23:07.860 Up 23:07.860 --> 23:08.080 A 23:08.080 --> 23:08.520 Dedicated 23:08.520 --> 23:09.000 Counter 23:09.000 --> 23:09.240 Strike 23:09.240 --> 23:09.560 Server 23:09.560 --> 23:09.720 As 23:09.720 --> 23:09.820 Some 23:09.820 --> 23:09.940 You 23:09.940 --> 23:10.120 Saw 23:10.120 --> 23:10.220 On 23:10.220 --> 23:10.340 The 23:10.340 --> 23:10.560 For 23:10.560 --> 23:12.360 Right 23:12.360 --> 23:12.620 Now 23:12.620 --> 23:13.120 It's 23:13.120 --> 23:13.500 Hosted 23:13.500 --> 23:13.660 On 23:13.660 --> 23:13.900 A 23:13.900 --> 23:14.480 Wapping 23:14.480 --> 23:14.680 Duel 23:14.680 --> 23:15.220 333 23:15.220 --> 23:15.560 But 23:15.560 --> 23:15.960 Soon 23:15.960 --> 23:16.100 We'll 23:16.100 --> 23:16.200 Be 23:16.200 --> 23:16.340 On 23:16.340 --> 23:16.680 Duel 23:16.680 --> 23:17.340 733 23:17.340 --> 23:19.400 And 23:19.400 --> 23:19.660 Also 23:19.660 --> 23:19.840 Been 23:19.840 --> 23:20.100 Working 23:20.100 --> 23:20.480 On 23:20.480 --> 23:20.740 The 23:20.740 --> 23:21.080 DDP 23:21.080 --> 23:21.340 Hack 23:21.340 --> 23:21.660 Radio 23:21.660 --> 23:22.060 Server 23:22.060 --> 23:22.700 Hopefully 23:22.700 --> 23:22.940 We'll 23:22.940 --> 23:23.080 Have 23:23.080 --> 23:23.240 That 23:23.240 --> 23:23.460 Done 23:23.460 --> 23:23.780 Soon 23:23.780 --> 23:23.940 And 23:23.940 --> 23:24.240 Going 23:24.240 --> 23:25.640 To 23:25.640 --> 23:27.280 Thanks 23:27.280 --> 23:28.080 Exacting 23:28.080 --> 23:28.900 Specifications 23:28.900 --> 23:31.400 Exacting 23:31.400 --> 23:31.820 Because 23:31.820 --> 23:32.180 Damn 23:32.180 --> 23:32.920 I 23:32.920 --> 23:33.320 Couldn't 23:33.320 --> 23:33.480 Get 23:33.480 --> 23:33.680 That 23:33.680 --> 23:34.040 Stupid 23:34.040 --> 23:34.420 Plug 23:34.420 --> 23:34.720 In 23:34.720 --> 23:35.140 I 23:35.140 --> 23:35.360 I 23:35.360 --> 23:35.580 Shouldn't 23:35.580 --> 23:35.720 Say 23:35.720 --> 23:36.020 Plug 23:36.020 --> 23:36.200 In 23:36.200 --> 23:36.440 Whatever 23:36.440 --> 23:36.900 You 23:36.900 --> 23:36.980 Know 23:36.980 --> 23:37.140 What 23:37.140 --> 23:37.580 Whatever 23:37.580 --> 23:38.140 Not 23:38.140 --> 23:38.280 Even 23:38.280 --> 23:38.440 Worth 23:38.440 --> 23:38.740 Talking 23:38.740 --> 23:38.960 Into 23:38.960 --> 23:39.280 All 23:39.280 --> 23:39.420 I'm 23:39.420 --> 23:39.660 Saying 23:39.660 --> 23:39.800 Is 23:39.800 --> 23:40.200 Shoutcast 23:40.200 --> 23:40.540 Sucks 23:40.540 --> 23:42.200 Yes 23:42.200 --> 23:42.560 I 23:42.560 --> 23:42.740 Know 23:42.740 --> 23:43.300 Shoutcast 23:43.300 --> 23:43.700 Worked 23:43.700 --> 23:43.800 It 23:43.800 --> 23:44.040 Wasn't 23:44.040 --> 23:44.540 Shoutcast 23:44.540 --> 23:44.780 Sucks 23:44.780 --> 23:44.940 But 23:44.940 --> 23:45.060 I'm 23:45.060 --> 23:45.260 Still 23:45.260 --> 23:45.500 Saying 23:45.500 --> 23:45.960 Shoutcast 23:45.960 --> 23:46.200 Sucks 23:46.200 --> 23:46.400 I'm 23:46.400 --> 23:46.560 Not 23:46.560 --> 23:47.000 Impressed 23:47.000 --> 23:47.520 I 23:47.520 --> 23:56.440 I 23:56.440 --> 23:57.780 I'm 23:57.780 --> 23:58.580 I'm 23:58.580 --> 23:58.860 Iê°€ 23:58.860 --> 24:04.360 I'm 24:04.360 --> 24:05.120 I'm 24:05.120 --> 24:21.680 Pretty bad. He's pretty good. Somebody else was there and he's not a forum member that I know of. I can't remember his name off the top of my head. If somebody wants to email me that name, I'll post as a second place person. I think he said he was friends with somebody. 24:22.520 --> 24:26.980 How many people were on totally playing at any given time? 24:26.980 --> 24:47.340 I think at most at once we had eight or so. I at least had some horrific technical problems. It's funny. I felt like I was whining the whole time. The guys at Data Machine were nice enough to host us. Completely appreciative to those guys. We had to move the server because the ping times were a little bit low. 24:47.340 --> 25:10.960 Obviously, they have other things going on. I completely understand and want to say thanks to those guys. We moved it and I decided to host it here. From the start, I just knew things were going bad because my machine in the middle of the game, I would stop rendering polygons completely and just render the interface. I was completely blind. Then all of a sudden, my machine would just restart a couple minutes later. 25:10.960 --> 25:22.260 No biggie. That one happened once or twice, but no big deal. What really sucked is in the middle of a round, my monitor starts going fuzzy and I hear this loud pop. All of a sudden, my monitor is gone. 25:22.560 --> 25:23.660 Oh, not cool. 25:24.320 --> 25:36.020 I was plagued with technical problems the whole time, which doesn't mean that's why I sucked, but it's a good reason, I suppose. Thanks, everybody, for showing up for that. Hopefully, we can do that more often. 25:36.020 --> 25:49.540 Well, see, and that was just kind of an impromptu thing. You and I talked about it on the phone one day and thought it might be a neat thing. Like I said, I was out of town, unfortunately, and I couldn't play, but hopefully, I'll get on next time and hand out some whoop ass. 25:50.260 --> 25:58.960 But, yeah, watch. I talk shit and then I'll get my ass handed to me. Oh, man, I just used more bad words in the last three seconds than I have in the last three months. 25:58.960 --> 26:08.640 Man, how did that happen? That wasn't cool. Oh, man. I blew it. Oh, well, I guess we must continue. 26:09.100 --> 26:11.200 We're talking about Counter-Strike and see where we're staying good. 26:11.420 --> 26:19.140 Oh, man, dude, while I'm playing Counter-Strike, and I think I've said this on the show before, I used to play years back when I first found it. 26:19.180 --> 26:27.080 I completely got addicted to it, and then I finally just had too many other things going on, mostly with the site and getting projects that I'm working on. 26:27.080 --> 26:37.380 So I finally fell into this pattern. We have kind of a LAN club at the university, and we meet every Friday evening after work and play for a few hours every Friday, 26:37.440 --> 26:44.900 and I kind of have been doing that pattern for a few months. So I don't play regularly. I'm not a total gaming, you know, go out and play every day, every night when I get home. 26:45.240 --> 26:51.340 I know there's people out there that just completely own the game, and some of the guys at the LAN party are like that. 26:51.340 --> 27:00.700 I mean, they just completely own everybody, headshots all the time. It's completely in a closed environment, so there's no hacks, there's no cheats, there's no whatever you want to call them. 27:00.700 --> 27:07.640 I hate it when people call them hacks. They're cheats, damn it. There's no cheats installed. These people are just that good. 27:07.640 --> 27:15.060 And I still, even though it's how many years old, I still love playing this game. It's a great game. 27:15.800 --> 27:21.860 And now that I see there's interest out there, Voodoo Hal and I have been talking about how can we set this up regularly. 27:22.860 --> 27:26.160 You know, can we, we gotta, what about a bandwidth analysis? 27:26.280 --> 27:31.680 We gotta decide if we've got the bandwidth between us somewhere that we can leave this up 24-7. 27:31.680 --> 27:40.340 Anyway, we won't go into the details here on the show, but a possibility of leaving that up and maintaining some statistics and some stuff like that is a fun diversion. 27:40.480 --> 27:43.400 It's not really a hacking project, but a fun project. 27:45.340 --> 27:47.620 Which I think would be cool. I would use it. 27:49.560 --> 27:53.080 And, maybe I actually, actually teach Voodoo Hal how to play. 27:53.720 --> 27:54.380 Ha ha ha ha. 27:54.380 --> 27:55.520 Ha ha ha. 27:56.740 --> 27:59.560 Oh, well, is there anything else you wanted to bring up? 28:00.160 --> 28:01.220 I don't know, I think that's it. 28:01.680 --> 28:11.700 Besides, uh, calculus and, and all the high math and super science and nanotechnology and whatever the hell else you're working on. 28:12.300 --> 28:16.600 Yeah, the pain in my ass, no, we'll leave that alone. I might start cussing myself. 28:16.840 --> 28:17.380 Ha ha ha ha. 28:17.380 --> 28:18.720 Yeah, I know that song. 28:19.620 --> 28:28.600 Uh, well, I guess our main topic this week has to be, has to be Microsoft's source code being leaked to the internet. 28:28.600 --> 28:32.320 It has to be. I mean, how can we not address this topic? 28:32.540 --> 28:32.660 Right. 28:33.580 --> 28:39.300 Um, I guess the, I don't know, it's just so easy. 28:40.120 --> 28:44.600 You know, I don't even know how to, it's, it's, it's already, it's already known. 28:44.700 --> 28:45.940 Most of the listeners know. 28:45.940 --> 28:55.160 Um, I guess probably it'd be easy if I just read some of this verbatim from the stories here and maybe chime in if you, are you still there? 28:57.400 --> 28:58.100 Are you there? 28:58.100 --> 29:01.300 I think Voodoo Howl just dropped off on us. 29:03.300 --> 29:04.260 Ha ha ha ha. 29:04.740 --> 29:11.300 Okay, well, apparently his cell phone just took a crap, but we're going to keep right on rolling with the Microsoft source code. 29:11.400 --> 29:17.600 This beep is me hanging up on Voodoo Howl, and hopefully he'll call back in a second if he can get to another phone. 29:18.520 --> 29:25.980 Um, but, as I mentioned earlier, Microsoft source code has been leaked to the internet, and I'm just going to read some of this verbatim to you. 29:25.980 --> 29:32.720 Again, most people have seen and heard of this, but, in an effort to protect its, and this is from InfoWorld, which is a trade magazine. 29:33.600 --> 29:40.660 In an effort to protect its intellectual property, ha ha, as if Microsoft had intellectual property. 29:40.760 --> 29:42.140 Now, I won't go there, that's too easy. 29:42.700 --> 29:49.600 Microsoft Corporation is warning internet users not to download the Windows source code that appeared online last week. 29:50.260 --> 29:53.160 They're warning us, not asking us, they're warning us. 29:53.160 --> 30:00.500 Microsoft is sending warnings to users who search for the source code on peer-to-peer file-swapping services 30:00.500 --> 30:06.300 and is mailing legal warnings to those who have already downloaded the secret programming code. 30:06.580 --> 30:09.600 The secret programming code, oh, that's great. 30:09.660 --> 30:10.960 It sounds like a movie plot. 30:11.780 --> 30:16.660 Tom Pilla, a spokesman for the Redmond, Washington-based software manufacturer, said Wednesday. 30:16.660 --> 30:24.000 Pilla would not say which peer-to-peer services Microsoft is targeting or how the company is delivering the alerts 30:24.000 --> 30:25.800 on the services it doesn't own. 30:26.180 --> 30:30.380 These alerts serve to inform users who initiate a search looking for Windows source code 30:30.380 --> 30:35.000 that it is illegal to view, download, and share the code, he said. 30:35.000 --> 30:44.280 Now, I'm going to interrupt the story for a moment and say I, just for the sake of journalism, 30:44.540 --> 30:49.240 went out and checked some peer-to-peer services that I was aware of. 30:49.720 --> 30:53.060 And I tried to see if I would get some warnings and pop-up windows. 30:53.180 --> 30:56.900 I wanted to see how they were delivering them for the sake of science and study. 30:56.900 --> 30:59.760 And I didn't see anything. 31:00.020 --> 31:01.320 I didn't hear anything. 31:02.600 --> 31:09.900 I don't know which ones they're using or how they're tracking or finding these people or anything like that. 31:09.980 --> 31:12.580 But I didn't see anything up front. 31:12.680 --> 31:14.680 Now, maybe I'll get something in the mail in a few days. 31:14.780 --> 31:17.600 I know some other people in forums said they got cease and desist letters. 31:18.180 --> 31:23.340 I don't know how they got busted or who, you know, how people got found out or discovered. 31:23.340 --> 31:29.300 But, you know, I have a famous saying about a horse that I'm not going to repeat on here, 31:29.380 --> 31:32.160 but you can't put the source code back in the horse. 31:32.260 --> 31:33.000 That's all I'm saying. 31:33.640 --> 31:36.500 So it's out there now, and they can send all the letters they want. 31:36.580 --> 31:41.420 Even Microsoft doesn't realize and understand that once it's out, it's out. 31:42.160 --> 31:42.820 It's done. 31:42.900 --> 31:43.520 It's out there. 31:43.600 --> 31:46.240 So you can send all the letters you want, but you're never going to get it back. 31:47.320 --> 31:49.180 So, anyway. 31:49.180 --> 31:54.780 Anyway, and, frankly, a little bit of the searching I did is I found a lot. 31:54.860 --> 31:56.440 I found the file out there a lot. 31:56.760 --> 31:58.600 I did not download any of them. 31:59.740 --> 32:07.020 I found it out there a lot looking, and what I found interesting was that there were a lot of file names available, 32:07.460 --> 32:10.180 and they seemed to be, frankly, framed. 32:11.020 --> 32:12.200 I don't know if that's a good word. 32:12.260 --> 32:15.740 They seemed to be intentionally spelled in certain ways. 32:15.740 --> 32:23.620 They seemed to have intentional rewording or a few, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have the feeling 32:23.620 --> 32:29.400 that Microsoft has sent agents out there to seed a bunch of false downloads, a bunch of false items. 32:29.780 --> 32:36.060 I saw several, several files out there ranging from 60 megs up to 800 megs, 32:36.060 --> 32:44.120 and I don't even know how big the real file is, and, no, no, you don't have to email me and tell me how big it is 32:44.120 --> 32:45.620 or send it to me or anything like that. 32:45.660 --> 32:49.400 I'm not interested, but, obviously, there's one file size. 32:49.520 --> 32:54.560 It's one known leak, so there can't be that many different variations and different zip file sizes, 32:54.660 --> 32:56.160 at least not such a wide disparity. 32:56.260 --> 32:59.600 A few bytes, one compression algorithm, a little bit different than another. 32:59.600 --> 33:02.540 So, what I'm saying is they've seeded a bunch of false ones, 33:02.780 --> 33:05.600 and I do suspect that it's probably Microsoft trying to control it. 33:06.120 --> 33:10.300 Similar tactics that the MPAA took with their pirated movies. 33:10.380 --> 33:14.440 They'll go out there and seed false movies, movies under different names, 33:14.700 --> 33:18.200 public domain movies under a real movie's name, stuff like that. 33:18.820 --> 33:24.460 A tactic that they're popular for using, and they actually have firms that they hire out to do that for them. 33:24.460 --> 33:28.720 So, I am saying that that's probably Microsoft doing it, 33:28.820 --> 33:32.120 but, obviously, I'm not pointing fingers or making accusations, 33:32.380 --> 33:34.520 because I don't want Microsoft coming after me. 33:35.340 --> 33:37.620 But, let's see. 33:37.720 --> 33:39.060 It goes on to say, 33:40.120 --> 33:46.400 Microsoft has also sent out hundreds of letters to people, 33:46.460 --> 33:49.120 which I just mentioned, who have already downloaded the source code, Pilla said. 33:49.120 --> 33:54.620 And, many have responded by agreeing not to distribute the code and deleting it from their systems, he said. 33:54.760 --> 33:59.600 Pilla would not detail how Microsoft knows who downloaded the code or who received letters. 33:59.780 --> 34:00.840 Exactly what I just said. 34:01.520 --> 34:06.640 We will take all appropriate legal actions to protect our intellectual property. 34:07.340 --> 34:11.400 Today is about communicating, notifying, and explaining to users 34:11.400 --> 34:15.680 that downloading, sharing, and viewing of the source code is illegal, Pilla said. 34:15.680 --> 34:20.120 Well, if Pilla said so, I guess we all have to abide by that. 34:22.620 --> 34:25.740 Microsoft said last week that incomplete portions... 34:25.740 --> 34:26.940 By the way, this is just incomplete. 34:27.200 --> 34:30.800 I think, again, listeners have heard this story, and I'm kind of rehashing it. 34:30.820 --> 34:31.560 That's why I'm going quickly. 34:32.020 --> 34:33.980 It's not complete, according to them. 34:34.020 --> 34:37.100 It's partial source code, and that's pretty much been confirmed by people who have read it. 34:37.460 --> 34:39.720 They agree that it's incomplete. 34:39.900 --> 34:41.360 It's just certain parts of the source code. 34:42.300 --> 34:44.940 And it's from NT 4.0 on Windows 2000. 34:44.940 --> 34:48.940 They have started an internal... 34:49.460 --> 34:53.200 See, the company, referring to Microsoft, has started an internal investigation 34:53.200 --> 34:57.400 and called in the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation. 34:58.340 --> 35:00.260 So the feds are in, the FBI is in here. 35:00.700 --> 35:05.020 Pursuing those who have downloaded the code and warning Internet users not to download the code 35:05.020 --> 35:11.240 is a, quote, natural move, unquote, from Microsoft, said Thor Lahrholm, 35:11.320 --> 35:16.380 a senior security researcher at PIVX Solutions, LLC, in Newport Beach, California, 35:16.600 --> 35:19.360 adding he has not downloaded the code himself. 35:19.740 --> 35:21.980 Yeah, neither have I, in case I didn't mention that. 35:21.980 --> 35:33.220 Microsoft has historically gone to great lengths to defend their copyright, intellectual property, and trade secrets, he said. 35:33.580 --> 35:39.980 Companies developing products for the Windows platform should also endure that their employees do not have the leaked source code 35:39.980 --> 35:45.440 as this could impact their operation, on their operations, and bring a significant liability to the company. 35:45.440 --> 35:53.540 That sounds a lot like SCO and their accusations of people using their source code as part of Linux 35:53.540 --> 35:55.400 and their threats and lawsuits. 35:56.800 --> 36:02.940 So those aren't necessarily successful, but they are working as far as they're trying. 36:02.940 --> 36:06.120 So that, in and of itself, is a pain to people. 36:06.520 --> 36:12.180 So, yeah, I guess if they can identify and prove their source code somewhere, that could be a liability. 36:13.900 --> 36:15.960 The article goes on to say here, 36:16.380 --> 36:20.880 Although it is within Microsoft's rights to protect its intellectual property, 36:21.400 --> 36:26.100 playing hardball with those who have downloaded it may have an adverse effect on the company's image, 36:26.180 --> 36:30.680 says Joe Wilcox, a Jupyter Research senior analyst in Washington, D.C. 36:30.680 --> 36:34.700 While the company arguably is the wronged party here, 36:35.080 --> 36:43.940 Microsoft may want to carefully consider the larger public image cost of trying to protect a three-and-a-half-year-old source code, he said. 36:44.980 --> 36:54.000 The notices run the risk of backlash at a time when Microsoft tries to rebuild a public image tarnished by the U.S. antitrust case. 36:54.000 --> 37:02.780 Wilcox said that some people may view Microsoft's tactic as heavy-handed along the lines of the Recording Industry Association of America. 37:03.180 --> 37:08.840 Remember that some of the source code trading occurs on the same peer-to-peer networks used for swapping music. 37:09.840 --> 37:11.480 Well, yes, like I mentioned that earlier. 37:11.920 --> 37:15.840 Also important to point out, this is three-and-a-half-year-old source code, as they mentioned. 37:15.840 --> 37:26.380 I can tell you from experience that in large companies that I've worked for and I've seen firsthand, 37:28.000 --> 37:33.820 Microsoft, the way they handle site licensing and give you basically bulk discounts, 37:33.820 --> 37:46.680 they, as part of that site license, usually want to sunset support, that is, cancel support on older versions of the operating system. 37:47.100 --> 37:54.140 So if your entire organization was running Windows, I don't know, Windows ME for some unbeknown reason, 37:54.840 --> 37:57.620 and XP came out and you wanted to sign a site license with XP, 37:57.620 --> 38:04.240 XP, usually they work into that site license that you will transfer everything over to Windows XP. 38:04.480 --> 38:07.080 They don't want to support the old Windows ME anymore. 38:07.200 --> 38:13.080 They want to kind of sunset that and put it out of its misery and kind of drop support for it and focus all their stuff on XP, 38:13.460 --> 38:15.780 and they want you to do that as well. 38:16.680 --> 38:22.900 So three-and-a-half-year-old source code, I don't know really who that affects. 38:22.900 --> 38:30.480 Now, I know a lot of hackers are very big about using the right operating system and the right products, 38:30.600 --> 38:32.040 the right code on the right machine. 38:32.340 --> 38:33.440 There's nothing wrong. 38:33.540 --> 38:35.540 There are plenty of people that run an older machine. 38:35.700 --> 38:41.040 We talked earlier about an old iMac, 400 megahertz iMac and 300, 333s and stuff like that. 38:42.240 --> 38:48.340 The Counter-Strike server was running on dual 333s, I believe he said, Pentium 333s. 38:48.340 --> 38:58.080 And as long as the operating system exists, people are going to use it for their specific environments 38:58.080 --> 39:00.300 and what their goals for that are. 39:01.140 --> 39:05.320 Microsoft wants you to not use and look at that old stuff the way they set up their site licenses, 39:05.540 --> 39:09.740 yet, ironically, they seem worried about three-and-a-half-year-old source code. 39:09.740 --> 39:15.060 What I read into that, I'm reading in between the lines, and this is obviously just my opinion. 39:15.220 --> 39:20.500 If anybody differs, of course, feel free to email me and say you're an idiot. 39:20.660 --> 39:25.140 But I think a lot of that code still exists in Windows XP. 39:25.420 --> 39:26.940 I think that's the bigger fear. 39:27.640 --> 39:30.400 I think that a lot of that code, yeah, it's three-and-a-half years old, 39:30.500 --> 39:32.420 but I think they just ported it over. 39:32.580 --> 39:34.800 I think they just updated minor parts of it. 39:34.800 --> 39:41.980 And if you see how it works, sure, maybe some individual strings within there, some tiny changes, 39:42.240 --> 39:49.320 but the overall flow of logic and how modules interact on the OS level, I think, still are the same. 39:49.400 --> 39:52.720 And I think if people see that and understand how it works, 39:52.920 --> 39:58.020 I think that's their fear, that people are going to be able to not steal the code, 39:58.020 --> 40:04.580 but make code very similar, duplicate it, incorporate it into different operating systems 40:04.580 --> 40:07.080 or different projects altogether. 40:08.320 --> 40:11.700 That's what I think their real fear is. 40:12.520 --> 40:16.600 Now, a couple other sources I've got here along the same story. 40:16.700 --> 40:21.480 I just picked a couple more interesting points to really analyze the whole thing. 40:21.660 --> 40:24.660 And one question is where did it get released from? 40:24.660 --> 40:28.880 Now, I had mentioned back on, I don't even know what episode of the show it was, 40:29.160 --> 40:36.300 several episodes back that they were really pushing recently this phase 40:36.300 --> 40:39.420 or this idea of releasing source code to its selected customers, 40:39.600 --> 40:43.160 the ones it was closely allied with and sharing the code with them 40:43.160 --> 40:45.680 so that they could co-develop and they could help develop stuff 40:45.680 --> 40:50.360 and working more closely with the operating system and the kernel 40:50.360 --> 40:55.460 and having a better handshake and working better with the environment. 40:56.440 --> 41:00.220 And I said on the show then that it's an accident waiting to happen. 41:00.520 --> 41:02.180 Somebody's going to get that code and release it. 41:02.620 --> 41:04.880 They can be as careful and as safe as they want to. 41:05.160 --> 41:05.980 It's going to get out. 41:06.540 --> 41:12.540 Now, I don't know if that is the same code and that is what has happened. 41:12.540 --> 41:16.400 And, well, I guess it has happened in a way. 41:16.480 --> 41:19.780 I don't know if it's the same, it's not the XP code that they're sharing, 41:19.900 --> 41:21.660 but it's some type of similar program. 41:22.380 --> 41:27.060 Media reports point to Mainsoft, M-A-I-N-S-O-F-T, 41:27.300 --> 41:29.720 or at least one of its PCs as the culprit. 41:29.720 --> 41:33.740 The company, an Israeli-based research and development center, 41:34.180 --> 41:37.800 reportedly was working on Linux ports of Microsoft software. 41:38.200 --> 41:41.980 If that's not the ultimate irony, I don't know what is. 41:42.540 --> 41:45.920 Working on Linux ports of Microsoft software, that's amazing. 41:46.860 --> 41:51.760 What person who's running a free operating system, Linux, 41:52.720 --> 41:59.560 is going to buy Microsoft products to run on said operating system? 42:00.000 --> 42:02.400 I don't think there's a person in the world. 42:04.320 --> 42:05.660 Well, no, there's got to be some. 42:05.720 --> 42:06.880 There's going to be some dumb ones out there. 42:06.940 --> 42:08.140 There's definitely some people that will do it. 42:08.560 --> 42:10.940 I mean, if you're going to run the Microsoft, I don't know, 42:10.940 --> 42:14.860 Office products or whatever products, you're going to do it on a Microsoft server, 42:15.040 --> 42:18.680 just because the simple fact that you know Microsoft's got you by the short hairs on that. 42:19.460 --> 42:20.400 Who's going to run it? 42:20.440 --> 42:24.780 And the whole reason you're running Linux is to get away from the whole Microsoft monster. 42:24.960 --> 42:27.220 So that's kind of strange. 42:27.220 --> 42:33.300 And one last part of this I found was from CNN, believe it or not. 42:34.280 --> 42:36.020 And they say, quote, 42:36.400 --> 42:39.440 One main risk in having source code exposed to the public 42:39.440 --> 42:45.640 is the possibility that hackers could break into computers running Windows NT or Windows 2000 42:45.640 --> 42:47.820 and destroy or steal data. 42:49.160 --> 42:50.460 Doom, doom, doom, doom. 42:50.460 --> 42:56.440 Yeah, what kind of, I don't know where they just pulled this stuff out of their ass somehow. 42:58.000 --> 43:00.720 That, yeah, I'm so sure that's what they're worried about. 43:00.840 --> 43:06.040 It's what, you know, as a matter of fact, here, it goes on to say, 43:06.100 --> 43:07.260 and this is what I alluded to earlier. 43:07.640 --> 43:10.000 It says, although the company said that was unlikely, 43:10.240 --> 43:13.240 given the relatively small portion of the code that had been circulating, 43:13.760 --> 43:17.160 a greater risk could come from others using the code 43:17.160 --> 43:20.080 as a base for developing software that competes with Windows. 43:20.520 --> 43:21.460 That's the truth. 43:22.040 --> 43:25.180 Not to worry about hackers are going to destroy this 43:25.180 --> 43:27.060 and take over machines because we got this. 43:27.400 --> 43:28.440 No, that's nothing. 43:28.560 --> 43:29.840 That's not what they're worried about. 43:30.660 --> 43:32.820 They're worried that somebody's going to take the source code 43:32.820 --> 43:35.760 and reverse engineer it, figure out how it works, 43:36.420 --> 43:38.980 and use it for their own basis. 43:39.140 --> 43:39.820 That's the truth. 43:39.940 --> 43:42.560 Let's not, you know, I don't understand why they throw. 43:43.580 --> 43:45.920 Yes, I do understand, and I'm not going to go into that soapbox. 43:45.920 --> 43:49.060 But they just, it annoys me, they just want to throw the scary words. 43:49.160 --> 43:51.720 Hackers are going to steal and break into. 43:51.920 --> 43:53.020 Why is that associated? 43:54.200 --> 43:56.320 You know, I just, I don't get that. 43:57.300 --> 44:02.160 So, anyway, that is the big news, and this is ongoing. 44:02.460 --> 44:05.860 I really, I did a little looking to see if I could find information on, 44:06.040 --> 44:09.700 you know, what peer-to-peer services they're checking 44:09.700 --> 44:12.440 and what they're, where they're looking and how they're looking, 44:12.540 --> 44:13.980 but I didn't see anything out there yet. 44:13.980 --> 44:21.280 But if anybody finds anything, like I said, email us at radio.binrev.com 44:21.280 --> 44:23.820 or post it in the forums or even contact me directly. 44:24.700 --> 44:26.160 And I will be watching myself. 44:26.280 --> 44:30.700 I just want to know out of curiosity because who are, 44:30.820 --> 44:34.660 they're Microsoft, fine, but who are they to go on peer-to-peer 44:34.660 --> 44:38.520 and monitor activities on a peer-to-peer service? 44:38.520 --> 44:43.400 And what peer-to-peer service is giving them permission or allowing them to do this? 44:43.480 --> 44:45.160 Or, if they're not allowing them, 44:45.960 --> 44:49.020 why aren't they doing something to stop them for illegally accessing, 44:50.120 --> 44:51.880 you know, violating their terms of service? 44:52.440 --> 44:54.440 Now, I believe it was Earth Station 5, 44:54.960 --> 44:59.780 and their terms of service said that accessing this for certain intents, 44:59.780 --> 45:04.300 of looking for certain activities. 45:04.300 --> 45:06.020 If you're with law enforcement, stuff like that, 45:06.080 --> 45:10.060 the act of accessing the network was a violation of their terms and service. 45:10.700 --> 45:12.580 So, I don't know what legal standing that has, 45:12.680 --> 45:15.720 but I thought that was an interesting comment. 45:17.780 --> 45:23.020 So, we will, that's a story that's not going anywhere for a while, 45:23.120 --> 45:24.920 and we'll follow up on it as we get more news. 45:25.840 --> 45:27.900 When I say we, of course, I guess I mean me, 45:27.980 --> 45:30.040 because Voodoo Hal apparently has not called back. 45:30.080 --> 45:31.920 I guess his cell phone completely died, 45:32.920 --> 45:35.080 or he dropped it in the crap, or one of the two. 45:37.220 --> 45:40.620 Oh, I have one other good story I want to cover today, 45:41.420 --> 45:43.880 and I call this one Java Goes to Walmart. 45:44.880 --> 45:46.380 I get a lot of trade magazines, 45:46.380 --> 45:48.720 and I'm a little bit behind on reading them, 45:48.800 --> 45:50.720 so this is actually probably an older article. 45:50.720 --> 45:53.100 It was from December, E-Week Magazine, 45:53.300 --> 45:54.400 which is one of my trade magazines. 45:54.500 --> 45:55.860 Well, it's actually pretty good, I have to say. 45:55.880 --> 45:56.260 I like it. 45:57.680 --> 45:59.780 And this one is about, 45:59.920 --> 46:00.980 I mentioned before, 46:01.400 --> 46:05.580 Sun's Java desktop system on a previous episode. 46:05.860 --> 46:07.680 Actually, episode 26 I have here. 46:08.580 --> 46:11.420 Sun is negotiating with Wally World, 46:11.540 --> 46:12.560 that would, of course, be Walmart, 46:13.220 --> 46:16.380 and Office Depot to include Sun's JDS, 46:16.500 --> 46:17.900 the Java desktop system, 46:17.900 --> 46:20.980 on a line of low-cost PCs and laptops. 46:21.860 --> 46:24.380 Note that Walmart is expected to come out 46:24.380 --> 46:26.380 with a line of low-cost laptops. 46:26.600 --> 46:27.700 Now, these are two separate stories 46:27.700 --> 46:28.880 we've talked about in the show before. 46:28.960 --> 46:29.680 We have mentioned, 46:30.160 --> 46:31.220 and on RFA, 46:32.300 --> 46:34.040 that Walmart was going to be, 46:34.120 --> 46:35.720 yeah, this is a little Project Walmart Freedom topic. 46:35.800 --> 46:36.620 I didn't even preview. 46:36.760 --> 46:37.300 I should have said, 46:37.380 --> 46:39.520 this is a little Project Walmart Freedom information. 46:40.060 --> 46:41.060 We've talked about before 46:41.060 --> 46:42.920 that Microsoft was going to be coming out 46:42.920 --> 46:45.020 with a line of low-cost laptops. 46:45.860 --> 46:47.000 They still deny it, 46:47.060 --> 46:48.680 but it's pretty much become evident, 46:48.820 --> 46:49.460 public knowledge, 46:49.560 --> 46:50.160 that they're doing it. 46:50.180 --> 46:51.240 They just haven't announced it yet. 46:51.800 --> 46:52.700 So they're going to come out 46:52.700 --> 46:54.860 with low-cost laptops, hardware-wise. 46:55.200 --> 46:56.040 And I guess Sun, 46:56.180 --> 46:57.060 as I mentioned before, 46:57.120 --> 46:58.400 they have that JDS system. 46:58.740 --> 46:59.820 They're trying to go out 46:59.820 --> 47:01.060 and replace Microsoft 47:01.060 --> 47:04.900 to become a new alternative desktop operating system. 47:05.900 --> 47:07.460 And I kind of went into a rant, 47:07.520 --> 47:10.080 and I'm not going to go on episode 26, 47:10.220 --> 47:11.100 so I didn't like the idea 47:11.100 --> 47:12.080 and how it was replacing 47:12.080 --> 47:13.760 one proprietary system with another. 47:14.800 --> 47:15.940 I listened to episode 26 47:15.940 --> 47:17.860 from my mini-review on JDS. 47:18.280 --> 47:19.040 I think I talked about it 47:19.040 --> 47:20.760 on another episode recently, too, 47:20.920 --> 47:22.580 but go back and check out the show notes 47:22.580 --> 47:23.720 if you want to listen more about that. 47:24.320 --> 47:27.560 Now, one of the interesting points about this 47:27.560 --> 47:29.420 is that Sun has predominantly been 47:29.420 --> 47:30.920 in the higher-end business market. 47:31.240 --> 47:32.540 They stay away from home users. 47:32.540 --> 47:35.480 Suddenly, things have changed. 47:35.940 --> 47:38.600 Critics are pointing out two things. 47:39.100 --> 47:40.720 Firstly, the fact that 47:40.720 --> 47:42.460 the supposed target audience 47:42.460 --> 47:43.820 who would buy laptops from Walmart 47:43.820 --> 47:46.460 would probably want Windows operating system. 47:47.380 --> 47:50.920 You know, I don't mean to say this stereotypically, 47:51.000 --> 47:51.760 but I guess I am. 47:52.560 --> 47:54.340 People buying low-cost laptops 47:54.340 --> 47:56.320 are looking for something easy to use. 47:56.460 --> 47:58.140 They're not, you know, hardcore users. 47:58.280 --> 47:59.680 They're your common Walmartians, 48:00.080 --> 48:01.680 to quote our good friends, 48:01.680 --> 48:03.120 over at RFA. 48:03.480 --> 48:05.040 The Walmartians are looking for something 48:05.040 --> 48:06.020 cheap and easy to use. 48:06.120 --> 48:09.000 So they're not going to want some weird JDS. 48:10.700 --> 48:12.720 So they want something 48:12.720 --> 48:13.840 that's more familiar and comfortable. 48:14.300 --> 48:17.200 Now, I can't wait to see 48:17.200 --> 48:19.300 if they go through with this 48:19.300 --> 48:20.240 and they have JDS, 48:21.020 --> 48:23.080 Sun's JDS on there as the operating system. 48:23.280 --> 48:25.520 I can't wait to see how they handle the returns 48:25.520 --> 48:26.680 because people are going to be 48:26.680 --> 48:27.780 returning these things. 48:28.480 --> 48:29.900 They're not going to know how they work. 48:29.900 --> 48:31.280 They're not going to be able to figure them out. 48:31.540 --> 48:32.520 They're going to be returning them 48:32.520 --> 48:33.620 to the store left and right. 48:33.780 --> 48:34.900 And Walmart's return policy, 48:34.980 --> 48:36.680 we know what a pain that can be sometimes. 48:36.760 --> 48:37.980 We've talked about that in the past. 48:39.180 --> 48:40.440 And the first time it crashes 48:40.440 --> 48:41.380 or they screw it up, 48:41.780 --> 48:43.100 they're not going to know how to fix it. 48:43.180 --> 48:44.720 They're just going to have to provide tech support. 48:44.900 --> 48:46.220 And I don't think they're ready 48:46.220 --> 48:47.920 and have thought that all the way through yet. 48:48.860 --> 48:49.760 That's going to be a mess. 48:50.000 --> 48:50.820 It's going to be a lot of those 48:50.820 --> 48:51.880 return to Walmarts 48:51.880 --> 48:54.200 and a lot of open box items, 48:54.320 --> 48:55.360 probably, I predict. 48:55.360 --> 48:58.760 Or they may just refuse to return. 48:58.880 --> 49:00.320 Well, that remains to be seen anyway. 49:00.420 --> 49:02.140 That's stuff I'm sure they're thinking about 49:02.140 --> 49:03.280 or I hope they're thinking about. 49:03.980 --> 49:05.340 And they may have made a decision 49:05.340 --> 49:06.800 that they're not going to take them. 49:06.820 --> 49:07.180 Who knows? 49:07.260 --> 49:07.960 I guess we'll find out 49:07.960 --> 49:09.200 if and when the time comes. 49:10.140 --> 49:11.960 The second fact is 49:11.960 --> 49:14.480 what I had mentioned on episode 26, 49:14.660 --> 49:15.420 and that is why 49:15.420 --> 49:17.860 exchange one proprietary operating system 49:17.860 --> 49:18.560 for another one. 49:19.400 --> 49:19.780 I mean, 49:20.780 --> 49:22.100 Java, when it first came out, 49:22.120 --> 49:22.640 was great. 49:22.640 --> 49:24.160 It was just this amazing thing 49:24.160 --> 49:26.240 that cross-platform development, 49:26.400 --> 49:26.600 you know, 49:26.660 --> 49:28.300 you can develop for one platform 49:28.300 --> 49:30.860 and it works across any platform 49:30.860 --> 49:32.740 because you're working on Java itself, 49:32.820 --> 49:34.160 which is portable and blah, blah. 49:34.620 --> 49:36.840 All such a great idea 49:36.840 --> 49:40.820 and had such potential 49:40.820 --> 49:43.180 and now has become infamous 49:43.180 --> 49:44.140 for being buggy 49:44.140 --> 49:45.740 and crashing systems all the time. 49:47.040 --> 49:49.460 It's just completely 180 degrees 49:49.460 --> 49:50.400 from what it started out. 49:50.400 --> 49:52.020 I mean, Java's just turned into, 49:52.200 --> 49:54.280 well, junk. 49:55.040 --> 49:57.460 So much so that there are companies out there, 49:58.000 --> 49:58.820 and I, again, 49:58.900 --> 49:59.760 I can tell you this firsthand, 49:59.900 --> 50:00.560 there are companies 50:00.560 --> 50:02.120 that have banned Java 50:02.120 --> 50:03.460 from their desktops. 50:03.920 --> 50:04.760 They will not, 50:04.960 --> 50:06.080 they don't want their users 50:06.080 --> 50:07.580 having Java applets 50:07.580 --> 50:09.900 and Java runtime libraries 50:09.900 --> 50:10.480 and stuff like that 50:10.480 --> 50:10.980 on their desktops 50:10.980 --> 50:12.020 because they're so buggy 50:12.020 --> 50:13.340 and because they cause problems. 50:13.540 --> 50:14.980 They actually ban it. 50:15.600 --> 50:16.660 I mean, that is sad. 50:16.660 --> 50:19.820 Do you know how to have your software banned 50:19.820 --> 50:21.300 because it causes so many problems? 50:21.400 --> 50:23.000 That's not the reputation you want. 50:25.160 --> 50:27.740 Well, I hope this is who I think it is 50:27.740 --> 50:28.680 because we are recording, 50:28.800 --> 50:29.380 so here we go. 50:30.860 --> 50:31.900 Sign in, please. 50:33.500 --> 50:35.440 Man, the SILA network just took a shit. 50:36.480 --> 50:37.880 Well, I kept right on going 50:37.880 --> 50:38.600 and I was hoping, 50:38.660 --> 50:38.900 I'm like, 50:38.940 --> 50:41.080 I hope this is not somebody I'm about 50:41.080 --> 50:42.260 because I'm not going to stop recording. 50:42.360 --> 50:43.420 I've been going the whole time. 50:43.420 --> 50:44.100 We've still got about 50:44.100 --> 50:45.860 five or six minutes left. 50:46.400 --> 50:48.240 Yes, is this Mr. Stink, dog? 50:48.400 --> 50:48.840 Oh, yes. 50:48.840 --> 50:49.740 I need to talk to you. 50:51.780 --> 50:52.480 Oh, man. 50:52.540 --> 50:52.940 Now, let me see. 50:53.000 --> 50:54.040 I was just finishing up 50:54.040 --> 50:55.420 actually our second topic. 50:55.540 --> 50:56.000 I was talking about 50:56.000 --> 50:57.000 the Java development, 50:57.200 --> 50:58.280 Java desktop system, 50:58.340 --> 50:58.800 excuse me. 50:59.900 --> 51:02.160 And I was just talking about 51:02.160 --> 51:02.740 how Java, 51:02.880 --> 51:03.420 and actually, you know, 51:03.540 --> 51:05.060 this is a perfect place 51:05.060 --> 51:05.580 for you to jump in. 51:05.660 --> 51:08.180 I was reflecting on how Java, 51:08.300 --> 51:09.260 when it first came out, 51:09.740 --> 51:11.500 really was such a great idea. 51:11.500 --> 51:12.820 It was just revolutionary 51:12.820 --> 51:16.640 to have a language 51:16.640 --> 51:17.960 that you could develop on 51:17.960 --> 51:19.480 that would work cross-platform. 51:19.600 --> 51:20.640 You didn't have to worry about 51:20.640 --> 51:23.160 not only different architectures 51:23.160 --> 51:23.600 in general, 51:23.700 --> 51:25.400 but different versions of, 51:25.520 --> 51:26.060 you know, 51:26.200 --> 51:28.260 Windows 98 versus Windows ME 51:28.260 --> 51:29.640 versus Windows XP. 51:30.220 --> 51:31.380 Well, that wasn't out at the time, 51:31.440 --> 51:32.260 but you know what I mean? 51:32.460 --> 51:32.860 Right. 51:33.240 --> 51:34.640 It was a great idea, 51:34.820 --> 51:36.760 and it started off fine, 51:36.840 --> 51:37.720 but then it just got 51:37.720 --> 51:39.260 so over-engineered 51:39.260 --> 51:40.780 and so complex 51:40.780 --> 51:42.540 and just downright buggy. 51:43.180 --> 51:45.000 Um, I don't know. 51:45.140 --> 51:45.580 I don't know. 51:45.640 --> 51:46.060 Some of you know, 51:46.140 --> 51:47.680 I'm a Java programmer, 51:47.820 --> 51:48.680 or at least I like to call myself 51:48.680 --> 51:49.280 a Java programmer. 51:49.280 --> 51:50.480 It's my language of choice, 51:50.900 --> 51:52.280 even though I do C++ 51:52.280 --> 51:53.280 and some other languages. 51:53.760 --> 51:55.080 I mean, I prefer Java. 51:55.820 --> 51:56.500 Yeah, it started out 51:56.500 --> 51:58.160 as an embedded system originally, 51:58.380 --> 51:58.620 you know, 51:58.640 --> 51:59.060 so you could have 51:59.060 --> 52:00.200 your Java coffee maker, 52:00.440 --> 52:01.000 or what is it? 52:01.040 --> 52:01.620 Java toaster. 52:01.940 --> 52:02.260 Right. 52:02.260 --> 52:03.060 That's what it was called. 52:04.280 --> 52:05.140 And originally, 52:05.420 --> 52:06.060 I will give it 52:06.060 --> 52:06.860 that it is becoming 52:06.860 --> 52:08.980 a bit more complex 52:08.980 --> 52:09.840 than it should have been, 52:10.580 --> 52:11.780 and a lot of people 52:11.780 --> 52:13.560 will knock how slow it is, 52:13.680 --> 52:13.920 but, 52:14.560 --> 52:15.480 and we've had, 52:15.540 --> 52:16.780 we had this little competition 52:16.780 --> 52:17.500 in IRC, 52:17.940 --> 52:18.220 yeah, 52:18.400 --> 52:20.440 a 500,000 lines 52:20.440 --> 52:21.480 of Hello World C 52:21.480 --> 52:22.540 will beat it hands down, 52:22.800 --> 52:25.500 but it takes a good Java programmer 52:25.500 --> 52:26.440 to actually make, 52:26.680 --> 52:27.160 you know, 52:27.220 --> 52:28.020 quick applications. 52:28.020 --> 52:29.760 There's a great article 52:29.760 --> 52:31.140 in, 52:31.680 --> 52:32.180 I think it's 52:32.180 --> 52:33.220 Java Development Magazine 52:33.220 --> 52:33.860 this month. 52:34.460 --> 52:34.660 Hmm, 52:34.740 --> 52:35.240 I get that. 52:35.300 --> 52:35.960 What does that tell you? 52:37.320 --> 52:38.820 I'm not a component for, 52:39.180 --> 52:40.320 proponent for, 52:40.500 --> 52:41.400 It tells me you need, 52:41.400 --> 52:42.980 it tells me you're going 52:42.980 --> 52:43.900 to need group therapy. 52:44.020 --> 52:44.920 That's what it tells me. 52:45.760 --> 52:46.200 But, 52:46.360 --> 52:47.220 they have a great article 52:47.220 --> 52:48.020 about how, 52:48.320 --> 52:48.600 you know, 52:48.720 --> 52:49.800 the threading system 52:49.800 --> 52:50.980 between Java and, 52:51.260 --> 52:51.440 you know, 52:51.600 --> 52:52.120 Winston's for, 52:52.300 --> 52:52.900 Winston's, 52:52.900 --> 52:53.440 God, 52:53.560 --> 52:53.860 Windows, 52:54.140 --> 52:54.600 for instance, 52:55.200 --> 52:56.140 is completely different, 52:56.140 --> 52:57.500 and a lot of what people see 52:57.500 --> 52:58.840 is Java being slow 52:58.840 --> 53:00.360 is just poor development. 53:00.540 --> 53:01.240 People will put, 53:01.300 --> 53:01.600 you know, 53:01.680 --> 53:03.100 the GUI handling code 53:03.100 --> 53:03.780 within the main, 53:03.780 --> 53:06.200 main computational loop, 53:06.440 --> 53:07.740 which causes a serious problem. 53:07.900 --> 53:08.040 You know, 53:08.060 --> 53:08.640 if you've got something 53:08.640 --> 53:09.160 that's waiting 53:09.160 --> 53:10.380 and the thread 53:10.380 --> 53:11.380 that's supposed to be handling 53:11.380 --> 53:12.400 the GUI updating 53:12.400 --> 53:13.260 isn't, 53:13.320 --> 53:14.240 is sitting there waiting 53:14.240 --> 53:14.620 on something, 53:14.780 --> 53:15.920 the GUI doesn't get updated, 53:16.120 --> 53:16.740 so it looks like 53:16.740 --> 53:17.560 it's slow as nuts. 53:17.800 --> 53:18.160 It's like, 53:18.200 --> 53:18.300 well, 53:18.300 --> 53:19.420 I'll just click this button 53:19.420 --> 53:19.940 and it's, 53:20.140 --> 53:20.360 you know, 53:20.360 --> 53:21.380 taking me 10 seconds 53:21.380 --> 53:22.600 to move on to something else. 53:23.500 --> 53:23.780 So, 53:24.280 --> 53:24.740 I don't know, 53:24.800 --> 53:25.780 I think Java's been getting 53:25.780 --> 53:26.600 a bad name lately, 53:26.680 --> 53:27.080 personally. 53:27.500 --> 53:27.700 Well, 53:27.880 --> 53:28.980 the thing is, 53:29.420 --> 53:29.800 I mean, 53:29.860 --> 53:30.900 it's getting a bad name, 53:30.960 --> 53:31.300 but I don't, 53:32.040 --> 53:34.240 there are good 53:34.240 --> 53:35.700 Java programmers out there. 53:36.120 --> 53:36.280 Oh, 53:36.320 --> 53:36.560 definitely. 53:36.680 --> 53:37.200 I just think 53:37.200 --> 53:37.940 Java itself 53:37.940 --> 53:38.400 has become 53:38.400 --> 53:39.220 so incredibly 53:39.220 --> 53:40.180 over-engineered. 53:41.360 --> 53:41.560 I mean, 53:41.660 --> 53:41.840 okay, 53:41.920 --> 53:42.880 here's an example. 53:42.960 --> 53:43.300 I'll tell you 53:43.300 --> 53:44.060 when I started 53:44.060 --> 53:45.260 disliking Java. 53:46.380 --> 53:47.760 I was writing Java 53:47.760 --> 53:50.080 in what was then 53:50.080 --> 53:51.040 known as Forte. 53:51.740 --> 53:52.040 Right. 53:52.140 --> 53:52.400 Okay? 53:52.400 --> 53:53.500 Which is now, 53:53.620 --> 53:54.080 which was, 53:54.200 --> 53:55.220 became NetBeans 53:55.220 --> 53:56.840 and Java 1 Studio 53:56.840 --> 53:57.800 and whatever the hell. 53:58.180 --> 53:58.580 Exactly, 53:58.740 --> 53:59.560 and that's what I'm getting at. 53:59.760 --> 54:00.320 Back then, 54:00.400 --> 54:01.100 even that, 54:01.720 --> 54:02.360 it was, 54:03.060 --> 54:04.220 as the versions went up, 54:04.260 --> 54:05.640 it became more and more complex, 54:05.860 --> 54:06.840 but it was still usable. 54:07.840 --> 54:10.460 Sun got this wild hair up their ass 54:10.460 --> 54:14.400 and decided at some point 54:14.400 --> 54:14.660 that, 54:15.300 --> 54:15.780 you know what, 54:16.200 --> 54:16.860 I mean, 54:16.900 --> 54:17.140 I don't know, 54:17.240 --> 54:17.960 maybe you're going to disagree 54:17.960 --> 54:18.520 with me on this, 54:18.600 --> 54:19.740 but the intent of Java 54:19.740 --> 54:22.360 originally came across 54:22.360 --> 54:23.020 feeling like 54:23.020 --> 54:24.800 this is a free alternative, 54:25.260 --> 54:26.900 and I'm not using the word free 54:26.900 --> 54:28.000 that they've stated that. 54:28.260 --> 54:29.200 It felt like 54:29.200 --> 54:31.000 liberate yourself 54:31.000 --> 54:32.480 from only writing C, 54:32.620 --> 54:33.800 because at the time 54:33.800 --> 54:34.560 there was controversy 54:34.560 --> 54:35.360 with C Sharp 54:35.360 --> 54:36.740 and J Sharp 54:36.740 --> 54:37.060 and stuff, 54:37.120 --> 54:37.980 Microsoft trying to use 54:37.980 --> 54:39.360 their proprietary languages 54:39.360 --> 54:40.280 and stuff like that, 54:40.460 --> 54:42.840 and Java was like 54:42.840 --> 54:44.740 the foil to that. 54:45.640 --> 54:46.840 Java was on the other end 54:46.840 --> 54:47.060 going, 54:47.440 --> 54:48.260 you don't have to 54:48.260 --> 54:49.260 cave into Microsoft 54:49.260 --> 54:50.540 and use their languages 54:50.540 --> 54:51.620 and use their environments 54:51.620 --> 54:52.520 and their libraries 54:52.520 --> 54:53.200 and their runtime. 54:53.680 --> 54:55.280 They were totally 54:55.280 --> 54:56.620 the opposite feeling of that. 54:56.960 --> 54:58.740 We are the alternative. 54:58.960 --> 55:00.160 We can cross-platform. 55:00.280 --> 55:01.460 We can work on any platform. 55:01.600 --> 55:02.280 You write it once 55:02.280 --> 55:03.080 and we can do this 55:03.080 --> 55:03.720 and we can do... 55:03.720 --> 55:04.660 And it had that feeling 55:04.660 --> 55:06.280 of being for the people. 55:07.220 --> 55:08.540 Somewhere along the way, 55:08.700 --> 55:09.020 Sun, 55:09.140 --> 55:10.440 and it's probably about that time 55:10.440 --> 55:11.520 that they took over Forte 55:11.520 --> 55:12.540 and Sun 1 came out, 55:12.580 --> 55:13.240 which has been within, 55:13.440 --> 55:13.960 what, a year? 55:14.380 --> 55:15.240 A year and a half? 55:15.900 --> 55:16.220 Right. 55:16.320 --> 55:16.900 Maybe longer? 55:17.020 --> 55:17.320 I don't know. 55:17.580 --> 55:17.860 Actually, 55:17.940 --> 55:19.620 Sun 1's even been renamed. 55:20.300 --> 55:21.080 Oh, yeah, yeah. 55:21.140 --> 55:21.420 I see. 55:21.780 --> 55:23.240 Well, at some point, 55:23.540 --> 55:24.660 Sun finally... 55:24.660 --> 55:25.040 I don't know, 55:25.100 --> 55:25.800 but I shouldn't say finally. 55:26.240 --> 55:27.460 Sun made the decision 55:27.460 --> 55:28.280 that, you know what? 55:29.480 --> 55:30.980 We shouldn't be making this 55:30.980 --> 55:31.900 so free and public. 55:32.040 --> 55:33.100 We should milk this 55:33.100 --> 55:34.620 and make money off of this. 55:34.620 --> 55:36.320 and what they have done 55:36.320 --> 55:38.200 is the same damn thing 55:38.200 --> 55:39.640 that Microsoft has done. 55:39.640 --> 55:41.720 They want to make proprietary stuff 55:41.720 --> 55:42.920 and proprietary this 55:42.920 --> 55:44.700 and everything comes from Sun now. 55:46.700 --> 55:48.920 They've over-engineered it to death. 55:50.200 --> 55:51.740 Complete overkill 55:51.740 --> 55:54.040 of all of their products now 55:54.040 --> 55:56.020 so that it's nothing more 55:56.020 --> 55:57.560 than a junior Microsoft. 55:57.760 --> 55:59.040 It's one proprietary system 55:59.040 --> 55:59.680 or the other. 56:00.640 --> 56:01.040 Right. 56:01.040 --> 56:02.580 And I think that's one reason 56:02.580 --> 56:03.420 that a lot of people 56:03.420 --> 56:04.680 have jumped off. 56:05.160 --> 56:05.880 They've changed 56:05.880 --> 56:06.600 from what it was 56:06.600 --> 56:07.680 originally intended 56:07.680 --> 56:09.400 or at least what it seemed like 56:09.400 --> 56:11.020 was the original intent. 56:11.260 --> 56:12.200 I don't know what Sun 56:12.200 --> 56:13.720 originally intended, obviously. 56:13.840 --> 56:14.820 And if someone from Sun 56:14.820 --> 56:15.380 is listening, 56:15.800 --> 56:16.680 by all means, 56:16.760 --> 56:17.760 write me and defend it 56:17.760 --> 56:18.980 because I think 56:18.980 --> 56:19.960 you're full of it myself. 56:20.820 --> 56:22.060 I think you guys 56:22.060 --> 56:24.140 started up with this. 56:24.220 --> 56:25.000 It was a great idea 56:25.000 --> 56:26.920 and then you saw dollar signs. 56:27.360 --> 56:27.740 And you said, 56:27.820 --> 56:28.560 hey, you know what? 56:28.560 --> 56:29.380 The hardware thing 56:29.380 --> 56:30.360 isn't really... 56:30.360 --> 56:31.240 It worked for a little while 56:31.240 --> 56:32.220 but we've leveled off 56:32.220 --> 56:33.900 and it's not doing as well 56:33.900 --> 56:34.420 with the hardware 56:34.420 --> 56:36.400 so we need to start milking this 56:36.400 --> 56:37.600 and they've taken it back, 56:38.060 --> 56:38.880 over-engineered it, 56:38.920 --> 56:39.980 trying to make it something 56:39.980 --> 56:41.040 that it shouldn't be 56:41.040 --> 56:42.620 and I think they're 56:42.620 --> 56:43.900 in the process of killing it. 56:44.580 --> 56:45.980 I don't know if it's too late now. 56:46.040 --> 56:47.040 I don't know if it's dead yet 56:47.040 --> 56:48.000 but I think they're 56:48.000 --> 56:48.940 shooting at it. 56:49.880 --> 56:51.040 Well, what's funny is 56:51.040 --> 56:52.920 Microsoft with their .NET 56:52.920 --> 56:54.820 is exactly what, 56:54.980 --> 56:55.340 I guess, 56:55.500 --> 56:56.020 what you're saying 56:56.020 --> 56:56.700 they're becoming 56:56.700 --> 56:59.120 because their biggest competitor 56:59.120 --> 56:59.660 was .NET 56:59.660 --> 57:00.900 because .NET 57:00.900 --> 57:01.660 for Microsoft 57:01.660 --> 57:02.940 at least is supposed 57:02.940 --> 57:04.280 to be their cross-platform, 57:04.400 --> 57:05.520 their cross-language 57:05.520 --> 57:06.660 architecture, 57:07.460 --> 57:08.600 their product. 57:08.960 --> 57:10.000 But, I mean, 57:10.440 --> 57:11.460 I guess in a way, 57:11.540 --> 57:11.660 yeah, 57:11.760 --> 57:12.720 Java is becoming 57:12.720 --> 57:13.560 exactly that. 57:14.700 --> 57:15.140 Yeah, 57:15.220 --> 57:15.660 and that's just... 57:17.200 --> 57:18.180 And the other thing 57:18.180 --> 57:18.880 that always started 57:18.880 --> 57:19.720 to confuse me too 57:19.720 --> 57:20.080 was, 57:20.900 --> 57:21.180 I mean, 57:21.240 --> 57:21.500 okay, 57:21.580 --> 57:22.780 I understand Java 57:22.780 --> 57:23.860 and I understand 57:23.860 --> 57:24.360 JavaScript. 57:25.100 --> 57:26.060 But then they started 57:26.060 --> 57:26.840 making all these 57:26.840 --> 57:27.760 Java beans 57:27.760 --> 57:29.680 and then there was 57:29.680 --> 57:30.220 some other, 57:30.520 --> 57:31.340 what was the other 57:31.340 --> 57:32.440 derivation called, 57:33.560 --> 57:34.940 let's see, 57:35.000 --> 57:36.440 there's Java server pages, 57:36.740 --> 57:37.480 Java beans, 57:37.680 --> 57:38.560 Java applets, 57:38.720 --> 57:38.780 Java... 57:38.780 --> 57:39.860 It was like there 57:39.860 --> 57:40.380 were so many 57:40.380 --> 57:41.540 different Java 57:41.540 --> 57:41.880 this, 57:42.000 --> 57:42.640 Java that 57:42.640 --> 57:44.200 that it became 57:44.200 --> 57:44.680 confusing 57:44.680 --> 57:45.480 when to use 57:45.480 --> 57:46.160 which one. 57:47.680 --> 57:49.220 In retrospect, 57:49.520 --> 57:49.980 you can kind of 57:49.980 --> 57:50.420 put it together 57:50.420 --> 57:51.080 and you can see it, 57:51.120 --> 57:51.520 but it just, 57:51.700 --> 57:52.100 it's like, 57:52.760 --> 57:53.500 why do we need 57:53.500 --> 57:54.080 all of these 57:54.080 --> 57:54.920 different types 57:54.920 --> 57:55.480 and flavors 57:55.480 --> 57:56.140 and names 57:56.140 --> 57:57.820 for the same Java? 57:57.900 --> 57:58.560 I thought Java 57:58.560 --> 57:59.640 was cross-platform 57:59.640 --> 58:00.260 and it was, 58:00.400 --> 58:01.560 you know... 58:01.560 --> 58:01.980 Right. 58:02.440 --> 58:02.700 Well, 58:02.780 --> 58:03.060 I mean, 58:03.660 --> 58:04.220 you have to consider 58:04.220 --> 58:04.940 a lot of the things 58:04.940 --> 58:06.320 that have been coming out 58:06.320 --> 58:07.380 do completely 58:07.380 --> 58:08.400 different things. 58:10.160 --> 58:10.720 I mean, 58:10.760 --> 58:11.580 the language itself 58:11.580 --> 58:12.220 is the same, 58:12.300 --> 58:12.960 which is a good thing 58:12.960 --> 58:13.120 because, 58:13.200 --> 58:13.360 I mean, 58:13.460 --> 58:14.160 if you consider, 58:14.340 --> 58:14.520 okay, 58:14.580 --> 58:15.320 you've got an application 58:15.320 --> 58:16.080 for developing 58:16.080 --> 58:17.360 desktop applications, 58:17.800 --> 58:19.260 you've got a language 58:19.260 --> 58:20.060 for developing 58:20.060 --> 58:22.320 Java server pages, 58:22.480 --> 58:23.000 which is what 58:23.000 --> 58:23.660 you were talking about. 58:23.800 --> 58:24.060 Right. 58:24.300 --> 58:25.360 Which all uses 58:25.360 --> 58:26.160 the same language. 58:26.440 --> 58:27.580 Which is a wonderful 58:27.580 --> 58:28.660 thing from a development 58:28.660 --> 58:29.560 standpoint because, 58:30.140 --> 58:30.400 you know, 58:30.420 --> 58:30.940 if you're doing, 58:31.040 --> 58:31.760 let's say you're doing, 58:32.240 --> 58:32.880 let's say you're working 58:32.880 --> 58:34.100 on Linux and you're 58:34.100 --> 58:35.480 doing desktop applications 58:35.480 --> 58:35.820 or you're doing 58:35.820 --> 58:36.500 web applications, 58:37.080 --> 58:37.320 you know, 58:37.340 --> 58:38.060 you don't have 58:38.060 --> 58:39.600 this language 58:39.600 --> 58:40.560 that can bridge 58:40.560 --> 58:41.300 between them. 58:41.840 --> 58:41.900 Like, 58:41.980 --> 58:42.400 for instance, 58:42.560 --> 58:43.800 you do your applications 58:43.800 --> 58:44.980 and we'll say C++ 58:44.980 --> 58:45.740 because you're doing 58:45.740 --> 58:46.480 desktop applications 58:46.480 --> 58:46.980 and you're saying, 58:48.200 --> 58:48.600 good luck, 58:48.680 --> 58:49.120 have fun, 58:49.360 --> 58:50.260 that's your thing. 58:50.680 --> 58:50.920 But, 58:51.040 --> 58:51.240 you know, 58:51.280 --> 58:52.160 any other language 58:52.160 --> 58:53.460 and then all of a sudden 58:53.460 --> 58:54.340 you need another language 58:54.340 --> 58:55.540 to do the web development 58:55.540 --> 58:56.200 side of things 58:56.200 --> 58:56.920 because you want 58:56.920 --> 58:57.460 your application 58:57.460 --> 58:59.460 to be able to link 58:59.460 --> 59:00.920 or to update a website 59:00.920 --> 59:02.320 or to pull information 59:02.320 --> 59:03.120 down from a website. 59:03.520 --> 59:04.000 All of a sudden 59:04.000 --> 59:04.880 you're doing PHP 59:04.880 --> 59:06.160 and then now 59:06.160 --> 59:06.580 you're wanting 59:06.580 --> 59:08.480 to do things like 59:08.480 --> 59:10.080 embedded on your cell phone 59:10.080 --> 59:12.260 or you have PDA users 59:12.260 --> 59:13.180 that you want 59:13.180 --> 59:13.800 to be able to access 59:13.800 --> 59:15.100 data wirelessly 59:15.100 --> 59:15.720 so now you've got 59:15.720 --> 59:16.420 another language. 59:16.880 --> 59:17.240 And so it all 59:17.240 --> 59:18.220 kind of comes, 59:18.740 --> 59:18.920 you know, 59:18.920 --> 59:19.680 even that becomes 59:19.680 --> 59:20.640 overly complex. 59:21.260 --> 59:21.580 But with the, 59:21.960 --> 59:22.580 at least the part 59:22.580 --> 59:23.240 that I like about it 59:23.240 --> 59:23.340 is, 59:23.400 --> 59:23.480 you know, 59:23.520 --> 59:24.140 you can write 59:24.140 --> 59:25.740 a Java 2 ME 59:25.740 --> 59:27.140 for your cell phone 59:27.140 --> 59:27.900 or for a PDA 59:27.900 --> 59:29.200 using the same language, 59:29.320 --> 59:30.120 the same syntax, 59:30.760 --> 59:31.620 that kind of thing. 59:31.620 --> 59:32.880 And I don't know 59:32.880 --> 59:33.760 if you've done 59:33.760 --> 59:34.640 much Java development 59:34.640 --> 59:35.000 lately, 59:35.400 --> 59:36.920 but Java does, 59:37.380 --> 59:37.640 Java, 59:37.780 --> 59:38.600 Sun does offer 59:38.600 --> 59:39.560 probably the best 59:39.560 --> 59:40.240 documentation 59:40.240 --> 59:40.920 for any language 59:40.920 --> 59:41.700 I've ever seen. 59:42.260 --> 59:43.080 If you check out 59:43.080 --> 59:43.560 sun dot, 59:43.640 --> 59:45.220 or java.sun.com, 59:45.380 --> 59:45.840 they check out 59:45.840 --> 59:46.780 the API information. 59:47.320 --> 59:47.860 It's probably 59:47.860 --> 59:48.940 the most concise, 59:49.180 --> 59:50.040 easiest to read. 59:50.680 --> 59:51.140 I don't know. 59:51.340 --> 59:52.000 That's just me. 59:53.060 --> 59:53.320 Well, 59:53.460 --> 59:53.800 when they, 59:54.040 --> 59:54.980 and that's another thing, 59:55.100 --> 59:55.860 j2ME, 59:56.120 --> 59:56.920 j2EE, 59:57.200 --> 59:57.660 j2, 59:57.900 --> 59:58.180 what, 59:58.320 --> 59:58.500 you know, 59:58.500 --> 59:58.780 there was, 59:58.900 --> 59:59.660 how many different 59:59.660 --> 01:00:01.420 versions of the compiler 01:00:01.420 --> 01:00:01.900 do you need? 01:00:01.960 --> 01:00:03.020 How many different names 01:00:03.020 --> 01:00:04.760 for different platforms? 01:00:05.100 --> 01:00:05.360 You know, 01:00:05.380 --> 01:00:06.300 it became confusing. 01:00:06.560 --> 01:00:07.620 The problem is, 01:00:07.680 --> 01:00:08.200 is that, 01:00:08.300 --> 01:00:08.660 for instance, 01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:09.400 the j2SE, 01:00:09.620 --> 01:00:10.460 which is the standard, 01:00:10.780 --> 01:00:11.100 you know, 01:00:11.180 --> 01:00:11.420 that, 01:00:11.620 --> 01:00:12.700 what most people use, 01:00:13.180 --> 01:00:14.700 or compared to that 01:00:14.700 --> 01:00:15.420 to the j2ME, 01:00:15.520 --> 01:00:16.220 the problem is 01:00:16.220 --> 01:00:16.780 when you're working 01:00:16.780 --> 01:00:17.940 with embedded things, 01:00:18.140 --> 01:00:18.680 you don't have 01:00:18.680 --> 01:00:19.480 as much storage 01:00:19.480 --> 01:00:20.660 as you could possibly 01:00:20.660 --> 01:00:21.240 hope for. 01:00:21.500 --> 01:00:22.320 So you have to scale 01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:23.360 down the API somewhat. 01:00:23.560 --> 01:00:23.760 Okay, 01:00:23.860 --> 01:00:24.000 well, 01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:25.140 it doesn't need to do this 01:00:25.140 --> 01:00:25.880 necessarily, 01:00:26.020 --> 01:00:26.500 and it doesn't need 01:00:26.500 --> 01:00:27.120 to do this. 01:00:27.980 --> 01:00:28.340 Then, 01:00:29.180 --> 01:00:29.500 you know, 01:00:29.540 --> 01:00:30.240 you start having to 01:00:30.240 --> 01:00:30.720 pull out things 01:00:30.720 --> 01:00:31.240 you don't need, 01:00:31.340 --> 01:00:32.240 so obviously they had 01:00:32.240 --> 01:00:32.900 to have a different 01:00:32.900 --> 01:00:33.600 name for it. 01:00:34.280 --> 01:00:35.280 The j2EE 01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:36.140 and the j2SE, 01:00:36.260 --> 01:00:36.900 I think they're actually 01:00:36.900 --> 01:00:37.600 trying to get rid 01:00:37.600 --> 01:00:38.040 of those two 01:00:38.040 --> 01:00:39.040 different distinctions. 01:00:40.260 --> 01:00:41.280 I know in the latest, 01:00:41.740 --> 01:00:42.680 NetBeans is what 01:00:42.680 --> 01:00:43.480 it's called now 01:00:43.480 --> 01:00:43.820 for, 01:00:44.540 --> 01:00:45.300 was what Java 01:00:45.300 --> 01:00:46.680 Sun 1 Studios 01:00:46.680 --> 01:00:47.300 became. 01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:48.360 I think they're, 01:00:48.400 --> 01:00:48.560 you know, 01:00:48.580 --> 01:00:49.620 trying to get a lot 01:00:49.620 --> 01:00:50.140 of that out, 01:00:50.240 --> 01:00:50.660 so you're not, 01:00:50.860 --> 01:00:51.940 you don't have all those, 01:00:52.060 --> 01:00:53.040 but they're still there. 01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:55.120 Well, 01:00:55.220 --> 01:00:55.920 you also have 01:00:55.920 --> 01:00:56.640 another issue 01:00:56.640 --> 01:00:58.920 with the runtime libraries 01:00:58.920 --> 01:01:00.440 and the virtual machine 01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:01.380 to be actually, 01:01:02.060 --> 01:01:03.340 the virtual machine problems 01:01:03.340 --> 01:01:04.880 with the lawsuits 01:01:04.880 --> 01:01:06.820 and how you really 01:01:06.820 --> 01:01:07.880 have to have 01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:09.860 Sun's virtual machine 01:01:09.860 --> 01:01:10.960 on your desktop now. 01:01:12.020 --> 01:01:12.640 Right. 01:01:12.640 --> 01:01:13.960 It sucks. 01:01:15.700 --> 01:01:17.140 It sucks. 01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:18.240 And it is slow. 01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:19.800 We use 01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:22.060 a Java-based application 01:01:22.060 --> 01:01:24.120 at work 01:01:24.120 --> 01:01:25.180 that is 01:01:25.180 --> 01:01:26.860 horrifically slow. 01:01:27.920 --> 01:01:29.060 And yes, 01:01:29.240 --> 01:01:30.420 of course it's true 01:01:30.420 --> 01:01:31.540 for any language 01:01:31.540 --> 01:01:33.320 that it depends 01:01:33.320 --> 01:01:34.180 on how it was programmed 01:01:34.180 --> 01:01:35.280 and how it was written. 01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:37.500 But I don't think 01:01:37.500 --> 01:01:38.400 that 01:01:38.400 --> 01:01:42.240 without seeing 01:01:42.240 --> 01:01:42.720 the code, 01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:43.100 of course, 01:01:43.160 --> 01:01:43.680 I can't make 01:01:43.680 --> 01:01:44.500 that judgment call. 01:01:44.920 --> 01:01:45.660 But I know 01:01:45.660 --> 01:01:46.480 on a daily basis 01:01:46.480 --> 01:01:47.460 I see pathetically 01:01:47.460 --> 01:01:48.280 slow running 01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:49.620 Java applications. 01:01:50.460 --> 01:01:50.640 Oh, 01:01:50.720 --> 01:01:51.140 and definitely, 01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:51.440 I mean, 01:01:51.500 --> 01:01:54.300 I can't argue 01:01:54.300 --> 01:01:55.300 that a lot 01:01:55.300 --> 01:01:55.980 of what you see 01:01:55.980 --> 01:01:56.860 is it's going 01:01:56.860 --> 01:01:57.500 to be slow. 01:01:58.000 --> 01:01:58.960 But a large part 01:01:58.960 --> 01:01:59.780 of that is, 01:01:59.920 --> 01:02:00.140 you know, 01:02:00.200 --> 01:02:00.820 obviously that it's 01:02:00.820 --> 01:02:01.680 an interpreted language. 01:02:01.680 --> 01:02:04.420 But the thing is, 01:02:04.820 --> 01:02:05.080 I don't know, 01:02:05.100 --> 01:02:05.760 for me at least, 01:02:05.880 --> 01:02:07.580 why Java is, 01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:08.680 that part of it 01:02:08.680 --> 01:02:09.820 isn't really a problem 01:02:09.820 --> 01:02:10.340 is because, 01:02:10.720 --> 01:02:11.120 obviously, 01:02:11.520 --> 01:02:12.180 computers are becoming 01:02:12.180 --> 01:02:13.420 so fast these days. 01:02:14.740 --> 01:02:15.740 And I think this is, 01:02:15.860 --> 01:02:16.060 you know, 01:02:16.100 --> 01:02:16.860 I think I had this argument 01:02:16.860 --> 01:02:18.280 before in IRC 01:02:18.280 --> 01:02:19.120 that, you know, 01:02:19.140 --> 01:02:20.060 people can program 01:02:20.060 --> 01:02:21.220 assembly all day long 01:02:21.220 --> 01:02:21.700 and they can write 01:02:21.700 --> 01:02:22.440 their text editor 01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:23.400 in assembly or whatever. 01:02:24.060 --> 01:02:24.300 You know, 01:02:24.520 --> 01:02:25.580 is it really worth 01:02:25.580 --> 01:02:26.580 the time it takes 01:02:26.580 --> 01:02:27.580 to develop 01:02:27.580 --> 01:02:28.480 in language? 01:02:28.600 --> 01:02:28.720 You know, 01:02:28.740 --> 01:02:29.200 it may take you 01:02:29.200 --> 01:02:29.700 ten years 01:02:29.700 --> 01:02:30.200 to do your 01:02:30.200 --> 01:02:31.460 damned text editor. 01:02:31.680 --> 01:02:32.340 To save, 01:02:32.440 --> 01:02:32.640 you know, 01:02:32.680 --> 01:02:33.780 a whopping two cycles 01:02:33.780 --> 01:02:35.040 or something like that. 01:02:35.060 --> 01:02:35.340 Or even, 01:02:35.520 --> 01:02:35.680 hell, 01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:36.360 five cycles, 01:02:36.440 --> 01:02:36.900 ten cycles. 01:02:36.960 --> 01:02:37.540 It doesn't matter 01:02:37.540 --> 01:02:38.020 when you've got 01:02:38.020 --> 01:02:38.560 these machines 01:02:38.560 --> 01:02:39.680 that are clocked 01:02:39.680 --> 01:02:40.320 well over, 01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:41.140 you know, 01:02:41.320 --> 01:02:42.100 anything that we 01:02:42.100 --> 01:02:42.460 could have hoped 01:02:42.460 --> 01:02:43.260 for years ago. 01:02:44.280 --> 01:02:44.340 So, 01:02:44.560 --> 01:02:45.700 that to me, 01:02:45.760 --> 01:02:46.060 I guess, 01:02:46.160 --> 01:02:46.520 is the reason 01:02:46.520 --> 01:02:47.000 why it's not 01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:47.780 really that big 01:02:47.780 --> 01:02:48.260 of an issue. 01:02:48.600 --> 01:02:49.380 So you're comparing 01:02:49.380 --> 01:02:50.220 it to assembly. 01:02:50.740 --> 01:02:51.640 I think more appropriate. 01:02:51.640 --> 01:02:52.340 Assembly to C. 01:02:52.540 --> 01:02:52.740 You know, 01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:53.680 you can write it 01:02:53.680 --> 01:02:54.660 in a higher level language. 01:02:55.180 --> 01:02:55.440 Okay, 01:02:55.540 --> 01:02:55.700 yeah, 01:02:55.700 --> 01:02:56.660 C is a little bit slower. 01:02:57.120 --> 01:02:57.620 And if you're 01:02:57.620 --> 01:02:57.980 a really good 01:02:57.980 --> 01:02:58.720 assembly programmer, 01:02:58.860 --> 01:02:59.180 you can, 01:02:59.240 --> 01:02:59.480 you know, 01:02:59.540 --> 01:03:00.520 save a couple cycles 01:03:00.520 --> 01:03:01.600 by doing this and that. 01:03:01.660 --> 01:03:02.220 But is it really 01:03:02.220 --> 01:03:03.500 worth it these days? 01:03:06.020 --> 01:03:06.420 Well, 01:03:06.620 --> 01:03:07.260 I guess, 01:03:07.400 --> 01:03:07.780 um, 01:03:08.040 --> 01:03:09.000 that's up for debate. 01:03:10.120 --> 01:03:11.240 I am of the opinion 01:03:11.240 --> 01:03:12.740 that Sun is teetering 01:03:12.740 --> 01:03:13.740 on the brink 01:03:13.740 --> 01:03:15.000 of blowing, 01:03:15.460 --> 01:03:16.100 shooting themselves 01:03:16.100 --> 01:03:16.580 in the foot. 01:03:17.540 --> 01:03:18.120 Blowing off 01:03:18.120 --> 01:03:18.700 their big toe. 01:03:19.840 --> 01:03:20.300 If they, 01:03:20.420 --> 01:03:20.760 I tell you, 01:03:20.820 --> 01:03:20.960 well, 01:03:21.040 --> 01:03:21.220 I mean, 01:03:21.280 --> 01:03:21.560 you know what 01:03:21.560 --> 01:03:22.400 bottom line is, 01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:23.960 people want something. 01:03:24.160 --> 01:03:25.060 They want an alternative 01:03:25.060 --> 01:03:25.660 to Microsoft. 01:03:26.040 --> 01:03:27.000 They want something 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:27.640 different to develop. 01:03:27.740 --> 01:03:29.160 They don't want .NET, 01:03:29.280 --> 01:03:30.020 believe it or not. 01:03:30.400 --> 01:03:31.020 Some of them 01:03:31.020 --> 01:03:31.900 are going to stick 01:03:31.900 --> 01:03:32.240 with it, 01:03:32.560 --> 01:03:33.740 but businesses 01:03:33.740 --> 01:03:34.940 are very happy. 01:03:35.040 --> 01:03:35.440 They don't want 01:03:35.440 --> 01:03:35.880 all their eggs 01:03:35.880 --> 01:03:36.540 in one basket. 01:03:36.920 --> 01:03:37.220 Right. 01:03:37.500 --> 01:03:38.120 There are, 01:03:38.620 --> 01:03:39.280 I would say, 01:03:39.380 --> 01:03:40.320 most smart managers 01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:40.720 anyway, 01:03:41.240 --> 01:03:41.960 know that you 01:03:41.960 --> 01:03:42.980 need to diversify. 01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:44.300 There are some cases 01:03:44.300 --> 01:03:45.000 when you want things 01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:46.140 to operate cleanly 01:03:46.140 --> 01:03:47.060 together and handshake 01:03:47.060 --> 01:03:47.560 with each other 01:03:47.560 --> 01:03:48.460 perfectly fine, 01:03:48.580 --> 01:03:49.380 but there are other 01:03:49.380 --> 01:03:50.380 cases where you want 01:03:50.380 --> 01:03:51.600 to distribute things. 01:03:52.460 --> 01:03:52.600 And, 01:03:52.820 --> 01:03:53.400 frankly, 01:03:54.500 --> 01:03:56.360 I see an infinitely 01:03:56.360 --> 01:03:57.020 higher amount 01:03:57.020 --> 01:03:57.760 of people that have 01:03:57.760 --> 01:03:58.620 sucked it up and said, 01:03:58.700 --> 01:03:59.660 we have to go with .NET, 01:03:59.660 --> 01:04:02.160 because Java 01:04:02.160 --> 01:04:03.280 doesn't cut it. 01:04:05.480 --> 01:04:05.500 So, 01:04:05.740 --> 01:04:06.480 and that's just 01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:07.480 from my professional 01:04:07.480 --> 01:04:08.040 experience. 01:04:08.220 --> 01:04:08.820 Maybe I've been 01:04:08.820 --> 01:04:09.880 at places that are, 01:04:10.420 --> 01:04:11.760 I don't know, 01:04:11.820 --> 01:04:12.680 biased or have 01:04:12.680 --> 01:04:13.400 a different feel, 01:04:13.540 --> 01:04:13.760 but, 01:04:14.120 --> 01:04:14.520 but, 01:04:14.700 --> 01:04:15.640 I have it right here 01:04:15.640 --> 01:04:16.340 in the notes here. 01:04:16.600 --> 01:04:17.560 At the end of this 01:04:17.560 --> 01:04:17.940 article, 01:04:17.940 --> 01:04:18.780 which again, 01:04:18.920 --> 01:04:19.720 was from eWeek 01:04:19.720 --> 01:04:20.320 magazine, 01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:22.420 the quote comes 01:04:22.420 --> 01:04:22.760 from this, 01:04:22.840 --> 01:04:23.420 the end of this 01:04:23.420 --> 01:04:24.400 article comes from 01:04:24.400 --> 01:04:25.140 an anonymous 01:04:25.140 --> 01:04:26.160 IT manager. 01:04:27.560 --> 01:04:27.960 And, 01:04:28.020 --> 01:04:28.320 it says, 01:04:28.440 --> 01:04:28.680 quote, 01:04:29.680 --> 01:04:30.700 if Sun had the 01:04:30.700 --> 01:04:31.400 interests of the 01:04:31.400 --> 01:04:32.320 customer in mind, 01:04:32.540 --> 01:04:33.660 then the Sun desktop 01:04:33.660 --> 01:04:34.760 would be written in C 01:04:34.760 --> 01:04:36.140 and donated to Linux. 01:04:36.600 --> 01:04:37.640 Sun is no better 01:04:37.640 --> 01:04:38.380 than Microsoft. 01:04:39.860 --> 01:04:40.340 And, 01:04:40.440 --> 01:04:40.900 if you listen to 01:04:40.900 --> 01:04:41.560 episode 26, 01:04:42.220 --> 01:04:43.060 I said that, 01:04:43.060 --> 01:04:45.760 the whole JDS, 01:04:46.060 --> 01:04:46.760 I also mentioned 01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:47.420 that it's coded 01:04:47.420 --> 01:04:50.840 with Sun products, 01:04:51.040 --> 01:04:51.740 the Sun desktop, 01:04:52.040 --> 01:04:52.440 the Sun, 01:04:52.560 --> 01:04:53.200 what is it, 01:04:53.320 --> 01:04:54.160 Star Office, 01:04:54.480 --> 01:04:55.480 the Java support 01:04:55.480 --> 01:04:56.100 developing, 01:04:56.440 --> 01:04:56.860 et cetera, 01:04:56.940 --> 01:04:57.220 et cetera. 01:04:57.680 --> 01:04:57.980 No, 01:04:58.120 --> 01:04:58.480 I don't, 01:04:58.760 --> 01:04:58.980 you know, 01:04:59.060 --> 01:04:59.900 why would I replace 01:04:59.900 --> 01:05:00.900 a proprietary Microsoft 01:05:00.900 --> 01:05:01.700 system with a 01:05:01.700 --> 01:05:03.840 proprietary Sun system 01:05:03.840 --> 01:05:05.340 with, 01:05:05.980 --> 01:05:07.100 that is Java based, 01:05:07.220 --> 01:05:07.880 which again, 01:05:07.980 --> 01:05:08.600 in my opinion, 01:05:08.740 --> 01:05:10.020 is inferior to 01:05:10.020 --> 01:05:11.300 Microsoft right now. 01:05:11.540 --> 01:05:12.540 I think it shouldn't 01:05:12.540 --> 01:05:12.860 be, 01:05:13.060 --> 01:05:14.080 I think it could 01:05:14.080 --> 01:05:14.680 have been much 01:05:14.680 --> 01:05:14.980 better, 01:05:15.100 --> 01:05:15.640 but I think 01:05:15.640 --> 01:05:16.260 they've gotten, 01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:18.120 I think the dollar 01:05:18.120 --> 01:05:19.100 signs have blinded 01:05:19.100 --> 01:05:19.560 them and they're 01:05:19.560 --> 01:05:20.560 trying to create 01:05:20.560 --> 01:05:21.280 it to be, 01:05:22.720 --> 01:05:23.940 what used to be 01:05:23.940 --> 01:05:24.700 touted as being 01:05:24.700 --> 01:05:25.360 more accessible 01:05:25.360 --> 01:05:26.280 and more universal 01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:27.180 than the Microsoft 01:05:27.180 --> 01:05:27.940 products is now 01:05:27.940 --> 01:05:29.560 becoming a competitor 01:05:29.560 --> 01:05:30.260 to the Microsoft 01:05:30.260 --> 01:05:31.060 products instead. 01:05:31.200 --> 01:05:31.680 And I don't think 01:05:31.680 --> 01:05:32.160 that's what they 01:05:32.160 --> 01:05:32.460 meant. 01:05:33.820 --> 01:05:34.420 Or at least it 01:05:34.420 --> 01:05:35.100 didn't seem like it 01:05:35.100 --> 01:05:35.580 in the beginning. 01:05:37.520 --> 01:05:37.920 But, 01:05:38.100 --> 01:05:38.260 hey, 01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:38.760 what do I know? 01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:40.520 I know we're 01:05:40.520 --> 01:05:41.080 out of time. 01:05:41.680 --> 01:05:42.500 I know that. 01:05:42.500 --> 01:05:42.940 I know your 01:05:42.940 --> 01:05:43.160 phone, 01:05:43.220 --> 01:05:43.560 what did your 01:05:43.560 --> 01:05:44.200 phone die or 01:05:44.200 --> 01:05:44.440 something? 01:05:44.860 --> 01:05:45.180 No, 01:05:45.460 --> 01:05:46.100 we have two, 01:05:46.200 --> 01:05:47.040 you know we have 01:05:47.040 --> 01:05:47.680 two cell phones 01:05:47.680 --> 01:05:48.200 here from the 01:05:48.200 --> 01:05:48.720 same company, 01:05:48.940 --> 01:05:49.500 the exact same 01:05:49.500 --> 01:05:49.740 phones. 01:05:49.860 --> 01:05:50.340 We have two of 01:05:50.340 --> 01:05:51.060 the Motorola 01:05:51.060 --> 01:05:52.100 T720s. 01:05:52.100 --> 01:05:52.420 Right. 01:05:52.500 --> 01:05:53.280 Being that some 01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:53.820 other people I 01:05:53.820 --> 01:05:54.220 know have. 01:05:54.460 --> 01:05:54.840 Yep. 01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:57.980 and literally the 01:05:57.980 --> 01:05:58.700 network just cut 01:05:58.700 --> 01:05:58.880 out. 01:05:59.000 --> 01:06:00.040 I had full signal 01:06:00.040 --> 01:06:01.200 on the phones 01:06:01.200 --> 01:06:02.000 themselves but they 01:06:02.000 --> 01:06:02.320 weren't getting 01:06:02.320 --> 01:06:02.720 anything, 01:06:03.340 --> 01:06:03.940 they couldn't dial 01:06:03.940 --> 01:06:04.560 numbers so I'm 01:06:04.560 --> 01:06:04.960 assuming there was 01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:05.660 a problem somewhere 01:06:05.660 --> 01:06:06.500 up that wasn't 01:06:06.500 --> 01:06:07.800 this site. 01:06:08.640 --> 01:06:09.140 So I don't know, 01:06:09.200 --> 01:06:09.640 I couldn't call 01:06:09.640 --> 01:06:10.060 anybody. 01:06:10.280 --> 01:06:10.680 I even tried 01:06:10.680 --> 01:06:11.600 calling 911 for 01:06:11.600 --> 01:06:12.080 the hell of it. 01:06:13.700 --> 01:06:14.020 Well, 01:06:14.080 --> 01:06:14.760 that's strange. 01:06:15.100 --> 01:06:17.060 I don't know that 01:06:17.060 --> 01:06:17.840 I've ever heard that 01:06:17.840 --> 01:06:18.740 before because it 01:06:18.740 --> 01:06:19.560 was out for... 01:06:19.560 --> 01:06:20.400 About three months 01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:20.740 ago, 01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:21.760 it was probably 01:06:21.760 --> 01:06:22.340 longer than that 01:06:22.340 --> 01:06:22.520 now, 01:06:22.620 --> 01:06:23.000 four or five 01:06:23.000 --> 01:06:23.380 months ago, 01:06:23.460 --> 01:06:23.940 some people may 01:06:23.940 --> 01:06:24.360 remember, 01:06:24.680 --> 01:06:25.480 I think it had a 01:06:25.480 --> 01:06:26.280 damn near nationwide 01:06:26.280 --> 01:06:26.800 failure. 01:06:28.300 --> 01:06:28.940 I mean it was 01:06:28.940 --> 01:06:29.940 pretty big. 01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:31.320 It lasted for all 01:06:31.320 --> 01:06:32.060 of a day or so. 01:06:32.900 --> 01:06:33.080 Yeah, 01:06:33.100 --> 01:06:33.600 I think it must 01:06:33.600 --> 01:06:34.360 have been out for 01:06:34.360 --> 01:06:35.020 I don't know, 01:06:35.080 --> 01:06:35.180 what, 01:06:35.200 --> 01:06:35.740 20 minutes? 01:06:35.860 --> 01:06:36.140 15? 01:06:37.080 --> 01:06:37.480 Yeah. 01:06:38.000 --> 01:06:38.520 It was out for a 01:06:38.520 --> 01:06:38.920 good while. 01:06:41.680 --> 01:06:42.080 Yeah, 01:06:42.240 --> 01:06:43.600 a while back they 01:06:43.600 --> 01:06:44.400 had a pretty big 01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:45.160 failure which was 01:06:45.160 --> 01:06:46.720 really bizarre is 01:06:46.720 --> 01:06:47.480 that people in the 01:06:47.480 --> 01:06:47.760 same, 01:06:47.920 --> 01:06:48.500 I think I remember 01:06:48.500 --> 01:06:48.980 reading this on 01:06:48.980 --> 01:06:49.380 flashback, 01:06:49.460 --> 01:06:50.940 people in the 01:06:50.940 --> 01:06:51.460 same area, 01:06:51.500 --> 01:06:51.700 I mean, 01:06:51.780 --> 01:06:52.520 could be standing 01:06:52.520 --> 01:06:53.160 beside each other 01:06:53.160 --> 01:06:54.820 and one person 01:06:54.820 --> 01:06:55.420 could call and 01:06:55.420 --> 01:06:55.800 three others 01:06:55.800 --> 01:06:57.100 couldn't. 01:06:57.780 --> 01:06:58.020 So... 01:06:58.020 --> 01:06:58.300 Hmm. 01:06:59.840 --> 01:07:01.020 Very strange. 01:07:01.140 --> 01:07:01.740 We are being 01:07:01.740 --> 01:07:02.200 watched. 01:07:03.220 --> 01:07:04.180 Big brother is 01:07:04.180 --> 01:07:04.540 listening. 01:07:05.000 --> 01:07:05.680 The man trying 01:07:05.680 --> 01:07:06.320 to bring us 01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:06.580 down. 01:07:06.640 --> 01:07:07.100 That's right. 01:07:07.200 --> 01:07:08.760 They are trying 01:07:08.760 --> 01:07:09.420 to hold you 01:07:09.420 --> 01:07:09.740 down. 01:07:11.140 --> 01:07:11.760 I'm being 01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:12.300 repressed. 01:07:12.400 --> 01:07:12.700 I'm being 01:07:12.700 --> 01:07:12.820 repressed. 01:07:12.820 --> 01:07:13.160 I was afraid 01:07:13.160 --> 01:07:13.600 the feds were 01:07:13.600 --> 01:07:14.040 about to break 01:07:14.040 --> 01:07:14.620 down my door. 01:07:14.900 --> 01:07:15.080 You know, 01:07:15.240 --> 01:07:15.940 the calm 01:07:15.940 --> 01:07:16.720 before the storm. 01:07:17.320 --> 01:07:18.500 Anytime a hacker's 01:07:18.500 --> 01:07:19.340 phone goes dead, 01:07:19.780 --> 01:07:20.720 you gotta admit 01:07:20.720 --> 01:07:21.740 there's a small 01:07:21.740 --> 01:07:22.560 tingling in the 01:07:22.560 --> 01:07:23.020 back of your 01:07:23.020 --> 01:07:24.000 head that says 01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:24.420 uh-oh. 01:07:25.660 --> 01:07:26.240 We were 01:07:26.240 --> 01:07:27.060 standing outside 01:07:27.060 --> 01:07:29.100 doing something 01:07:29.100 --> 01:07:29.540 the other day 01:07:29.540 --> 01:07:30.540 and three cops 01:07:30.540 --> 01:07:31.440 rolled up outside 01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:32.040 of our front 01:07:32.040 --> 01:07:33.460 door in the 01:07:33.460 --> 01:07:34.060 apartment building 01:07:34.060 --> 01:07:34.620 so I'm like, 01:07:34.780 --> 01:07:34.960 hmm, 01:07:35.100 --> 01:07:35.380 damn it, 01:07:35.440 --> 01:07:35.960 I forgot to do 01:07:35.960 --> 01:07:36.340 that remote 01:07:36.340 --> 01:07:37.240 control purge 01:07:37.240 --> 01:07:37.680 thing I was 01:07:37.680 --> 01:07:38.260 wanting to do. 01:07:38.500 --> 01:07:38.860 Exactly, 01:07:39.020 --> 01:07:39.240 right? 01:07:40.240 --> 01:07:40.600 Hmm. 01:07:41.680 --> 01:07:41.980 Yeah, 01:07:42.080 --> 01:07:44.500 I gotta work 01:07:44.500 --> 01:07:44.940 something like 01:07:44.940 --> 01:07:45.180 that out 01:07:45.180 --> 01:07:45.520 myself, 01:07:45.580 --> 01:07:45.860 I must 01:07:45.860 --> 01:07:46.080 say. 01:07:47.260 --> 01:07:47.920 But not 01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:48.440 because I 01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:48.720 have the 01:07:48.720 --> 01:07:49.060 Microsoft 01:07:49.060 --> 01:07:49.480 code. 01:07:49.560 --> 01:07:49.800 I made 01:07:49.800 --> 01:07:50.200 that clear 01:07:50.200 --> 01:07:50.580 in the show 01:07:50.580 --> 01:07:51.000 earlier. 01:07:52.160 --> 01:07:52.680 Just to 01:07:52.680 --> 01:07:53.060 throw that 01:07:53.060 --> 01:07:53.420 out there. 01:07:53.580 --> 01:07:53.980 Don't send 01:07:53.980 --> 01:07:54.400 me any 01:07:54.400 --> 01:07:54.740 cease and 01:07:54.740 --> 01:07:55.000 desist 01:07:55.000 --> 01:07:55.380 letters. 01:07:56.860 --> 01:07:57.600 I never 01:07:57.600 --> 01:07:58.420 even had a 01:07:58.420 --> 01:07:59.320 desire to 01:07:59.320 --> 01:07:59.900 download it. 01:08:00.160 --> 01:08:00.720 This wasn't 01:08:00.720 --> 01:08:01.040 one of those 01:08:01.040 --> 01:08:02.080 things that I 01:08:02.080 --> 01:08:02.700 really care to 01:08:02.700 --> 01:08:03.020 see. 01:08:03.960 --> 01:08:04.480 And it's 01:08:04.480 --> 01:08:04.640 partial. 01:08:04.640 --> 01:08:05.060 It's not going 01:08:05.060 --> 01:08:05.500 to make me a 01:08:05.500 --> 01:08:06.340 worse coder or 01:08:06.340 --> 01:08:06.600 anything. 01:08:06.760 --> 01:08:07.480 I just have 01:08:07.480 --> 01:08:08.040 no desire. 01:08:08.680 --> 01:08:09.400 It's partial 01:08:09.400 --> 01:08:09.960 code, 01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:10.900 first of all, 01:08:10.980 --> 01:08:12.180 and I 01:08:12.180 --> 01:08:12.820 mentioned also 01:08:12.820 --> 01:08:13.400 earlier when I 01:08:13.400 --> 01:08:13.620 saw it, 01:08:13.620 --> 01:08:14.340 it's three 01:08:14.340 --> 01:08:14.660 and a half 01:08:14.660 --> 01:08:15.340 years old. 01:08:16.000 --> 01:08:16.200 See, 01:08:16.300 --> 01:08:16.800 the thing is, 01:08:17.080 --> 01:08:18.300 I think a lot 01:08:18.300 --> 01:08:18.640 of that is 01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:19.520 incorporated in 01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:19.760 XP. 01:08:19.980 --> 01:08:21.320 I know a lot 01:08:21.320 --> 01:08:21.540 of it's 01:08:21.540 --> 01:08:22.100 incorporated in 01:08:22.100 --> 01:08:23.080 Server 2003. 01:08:23.640 --> 01:08:23.780 Well, 01:08:23.840 --> 01:08:25.340 it was source 01:08:25.340 --> 01:08:25.640 code from 01:08:25.640 --> 01:08:26.220 2000 and 01:08:26.220 --> 01:08:26.840 NT4. 01:08:27.120 --> 01:08:27.320 Right. 01:08:27.820 --> 01:08:28.260 Basically, 01:08:28.440 --> 01:08:30.940 XP had the 01:08:30.940 --> 01:08:31.460 subname as 01:08:31.460 --> 01:08:32.600 NT5.1. 01:08:33.100 --> 01:08:33.480 And if you 01:08:33.480 --> 01:08:33.700 look, 01:08:33.880 --> 01:08:34.620 2000 was 01:08:34.620 --> 01:08:36.120 actually NT5.0. 01:08:37.080 --> 01:08:37.460 So if that 01:08:37.460 --> 01:08:37.800 tells you 01:08:37.800 --> 01:08:37.980 anything, 01:08:38.100 --> 01:08:38.840 obviously there's 01:08:38.840 --> 01:08:39.520 a large part 01:08:39.520 --> 01:08:39.860 of it in 01:08:39.860 --> 01:08:40.120 XP. 01:08:40.460 --> 01:08:40.860 Absolutely. 01:08:41.240 --> 01:08:41.640 And I think 01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:42.240 an even larger 01:08:42.240 --> 01:08:43.180 part in 01:08:43.180 --> 01:08:44.340 2003 server. 01:08:44.840 --> 01:08:45.060 Yeah, 01:08:45.180 --> 01:08:45.400 I mean, 01:08:45.640 --> 01:08:46.020 personally, 01:08:46.280 --> 01:08:47.180 I don't really 01:08:47.180 --> 01:08:47.680 care to see the 01:08:47.680 --> 01:08:48.560 source code for 01:08:48.560 --> 01:08:49.980 Solitaire. 01:08:51.100 --> 01:08:51.320 Yeah. 01:08:51.980 --> 01:08:52.640 I don't know, 01:08:52.740 --> 01:08:52.860 man. 01:08:52.900 --> 01:08:53.420 I might figure out 01:08:53.420 --> 01:08:53.700 a way to 01:08:53.700 --> 01:08:54.260 hack-sore the 01:08:54.260 --> 01:08:54.640 Solitaire. 01:08:55.120 --> 01:08:55.340 Yeah, 01:08:55.360 --> 01:08:55.520 I know, 01:08:55.600 --> 01:08:55.780 man. 01:08:56.340 --> 01:08:57.260 My Minesweeper 01:08:57.260 --> 01:08:57.760 just doesn't go 01:08:57.760 --> 01:08:58.260 as fast as 01:08:58.260 --> 01:08:58.500 theirs, 01:08:58.640 --> 01:08:59.760 so I have to 01:08:59.760 --> 01:09:00.160 take something 01:09:00.160 --> 01:09:00.600 from it. 01:09:00.680 --> 01:09:01.360 You can go into 01:09:01.360 --> 01:09:02.040 the Minesweeper 01:09:02.040 --> 01:09:03.040 INI file and 01:09:03.040 --> 01:09:03.960 just manually edit 01:09:03.960 --> 01:09:04.740 that plain text 01:09:04.740 --> 01:09:05.140 and you can 01:09:05.140 --> 01:09:06.800 go on there and 01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:07.140 put it in 01:09:07.140 --> 01:09:07.960 custom champion 01:09:07.960 --> 01:09:08.660 mode and put 01:09:08.660 --> 01:09:09.360 one second and 01:09:09.360 --> 01:09:09.780 put your name 01:09:09.780 --> 01:09:10.020 in there. 01:09:10.100 --> 01:09:10.200 I mean, 01:09:10.220 --> 01:09:10.620 that's already 01:09:10.620 --> 01:09:11.180 easy to do 01:09:11.180 --> 01:09:11.520 that. 01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:14.700 I haven't 01:09:14.700 --> 01:09:15.220 told you my 01:09:15.220 --> 01:09:15.840 story about my 01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:16.560 Minesweeper game. 01:09:16.640 --> 01:09:16.980 I'll say that 01:09:16.980 --> 01:09:17.600 some other time. 01:09:17.740 --> 01:09:17.980 Okay, 01:09:18.040 --> 01:09:18.500 we'll save that 01:09:18.500 --> 01:09:18.860 for another 01:09:18.860 --> 01:09:19.200 episode. 01:09:19.540 --> 01:09:19.900 Now, 01:09:20.420 --> 01:09:20.820 as long as 01:09:20.820 --> 01:09:21.100 we're on the 01:09:21.100 --> 01:09:21.440 topic, 01:09:21.560 --> 01:09:21.900 I'll go ahead 01:09:21.900 --> 01:09:22.320 and give my 01:09:22.320 --> 01:09:22.860 shout-outs and 01:09:22.860 --> 01:09:23.720 my shout-outs go 01:09:23.720 --> 01:09:24.560 to Microsoft for 01:09:24.560 --> 01:09:25.140 joining the 01:09:25.140 --> 01:09:25.580 open-source 01:09:25.580 --> 01:09:26.120 revolution. 01:09:26.340 --> 01:09:27.100 Welcome aboard. 01:09:27.760 --> 01:09:29.140 Welcome to the 01:09:29.140 --> 01:09:29.740 open-source 01:09:29.740 --> 01:09:30.240 community. 01:09:30.400 --> 01:09:30.740 Whether you're 01:09:30.740 --> 01:09:31.340 meant to be here 01:09:31.340 --> 01:09:31.700 or not, 01:09:31.980 --> 01:09:32.400 whether it was 01:09:32.400 --> 01:09:33.440 voluntary or not, 01:09:34.120 --> 01:09:34.800 welcome aboard. 01:09:34.900 --> 01:09:35.460 You are now 01:09:35.460 --> 01:09:36.120 open-source. 01:09:36.240 --> 01:09:36.960 You cannot put 01:09:36.960 --> 01:09:38.100 the source back 01:09:38.100 --> 01:09:38.620 in the horse. 01:09:38.620 --> 01:09:40.160 That's my 01:09:40.160 --> 01:09:40.600 shout-outs for 01:09:40.600 --> 01:09:40.940 the show. 01:09:41.740 --> 01:09:42.440 I guess I 01:09:42.440 --> 01:09:43.020 got shout-outs 01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:43.160 too. 01:09:43.240 --> 01:09:43.500 I'll give 01:09:43.500 --> 01:09:44.160 digital nutrition 01:09:44.160 --> 01:09:44.700 shout-outs for 01:09:44.700 --> 01:09:45.140 whipping my 01:09:45.140 --> 01:09:45.540 ass. 01:09:46.600 --> 01:09:46.960 Thanks. 01:09:48.100 --> 01:09:48.700 It puts 01:09:48.700 --> 01:09:49.080 everything in 01:09:49.080 --> 01:09:49.480 perspective, 01:09:49.600 --> 01:09:50.000 you asshole. 01:09:50.240 --> 01:09:50.480 Yeah, 01:09:50.480 --> 01:09:51.120 thanks a lot. 01:09:52.060 --> 01:09:52.920 I guess that's 01:09:52.920 --> 01:09:53.400 it for me. 01:09:53.400 --> 01:09:56.220 And we are 01:09:56.220 --> 01:09:56.880 going to close 01:09:56.880 --> 01:09:57.760 again this week 01:09:57.760 --> 01:09:58.380 with another 01:09:58.380 --> 01:09:58.980 track from 01:09:58.980 --> 01:09:59.820 Brad Sucks 01:09:59.820 --> 01:10:00.180 who we 01:10:00.180 --> 01:10:00.560 closed with 01:10:00.560 --> 01:10:01.020 last week. 01:10:01.140 --> 01:10:02.080 This time 01:10:02.080 --> 01:10:02.480 we're going to 01:10:02.480 --> 01:10:03.860 use a song 01:10:03.860 --> 01:10:04.360 called I 01:10:04.360 --> 01:10:04.920 Think I 01:10:04.920 --> 01:10:05.700 Started a 01:10:05.700 --> 01:10:06.140 Trend. 01:10:07.260 --> 01:10:08.340 And I've 01:10:08.340 --> 01:10:08.740 mentioned it 01:10:08.740 --> 01:10:09.400 several times 01:10:09.400 --> 01:10:09.880 before, 01:10:10.000 --> 01:10:10.660 but one last 01:10:10.660 --> 01:10:11.100 time, 01:10:11.180 --> 01:10:11.520 if you want 01:10:11.520 --> 01:10:12.300 to email us 01:10:12.300 --> 01:10:13.660 radio at 01:10:13.660 --> 01:10:15.400 binrev.com. 01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:16.480 And Voodoo 01:10:16.480 --> 01:10:16.660 Al, 01:10:16.760 --> 01:10:17.400 thank you for 01:10:17.400 --> 01:10:17.920 being on the 01:10:17.920 --> 01:10:18.440 show and 01:10:18.440 --> 01:10:19.040 then not being 01:10:19.040 --> 01:10:19.480 on the show 01:10:19.480 --> 01:10:19.960 and then being 01:10:19.960 --> 01:10:20.500 back on the 01:10:20.500 --> 01:10:21.060 show again. 01:10:21.740 --> 01:10:22.220 Appreciate 01:10:22.220 --> 01:10:22.900 having you. 01:10:22.900 --> 01:10:23.520 again. 01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:24.000 Does that 01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:24.340 count as 01:10:24.340 --> 01:10:24.880 two appearances? 01:10:25.280 --> 01:10:25.520 Yeah. 01:10:27.340 --> 01:10:28.380 And that 01:10:28.380 --> 01:10:28.980 is going to 01:10:28.980 --> 01:10:29.280 do it. 01:10:29.360 --> 01:10:30.020 So we 01:10:30.020 --> 01:10:30.640 will see 01:10:30.640 --> 01:10:32.220 everyone next 01:10:32.220 --> 01:10:32.640 week. 01:10:32.780 --> 01:10:33.340 Same 01:10:33.340 --> 01:10:35.000 hack time. 01:10:35.560 --> 01:10:35.900 Oh, 01:10:36.180 --> 01:10:36.600 okay. 01:10:37.040 --> 01:10:37.440 Same. 01:10:38.400 --> 01:10:39.120 I'll screw 01:10:39.120 --> 01:10:39.380 it. 01:10:39.700 --> 01:10:40.160 Later. 01:10:52.900 --> 01:11:09.280 Washed up on 01:11:09.280 --> 01:11:10.880 shore, I'm 01:11:10.880 --> 01:11:12.420 getting sand in 01:11:12.420 --> 01:11:14.020 my face. 01:11:14.020 --> 01:11:16.120 I took it 01:11:16.120 --> 01:11:17.660 hard and now 01:11:17.660 --> 01:11:18.540 I'm spending 01:11:18.540 --> 01:11:20.000 my days 01:11:20.000 --> 01:11:21.780 from flying 01:11:21.780 --> 01:11:23.620 around in 01:11:23.620 --> 01:11:25.240 total comfort 01:11:25.240 --> 01:11:26.760 and sin. 01:11:27.340 --> 01:11:28.400 And if you 01:11:28.400 --> 01:11:29.960 believe me, 01:11:30.040 --> 01:11:31.240 I can do 01:11:31.240 --> 01:11:32.460 it again. 01:11:32.460 --> 01:11:34.460 I sold out 01:11:34.460 --> 01:11:36.080 all my friends 01:11:36.080 --> 01:11:36.940 and then 01:11:36.940 --> 01:11:38.080 I took it 01:11:38.080 --> 01:11:38.800 easy. 01:11:39.560 --> 01:11:40.520 Everybody 01:11:40.520 --> 01:11:42.740 said they 01:11:42.740 --> 01:11:44.020 never would 01:11:44.020 --> 01:11:45.280 believe me. 01:11:45.280 --> 01:11:47.280 I paid no 01:11:47.280 --> 01:11:48.280 attention 01:11:48.280 --> 01:11:50.040 to the 01:11:50.040 --> 01:11:52.280 very end. 01:11:52.280 --> 01:11:54.780 Oh, yeah. 01:11:55.300 --> 01:11:56.060 I think 01:11:56.060 --> 01:11:57.000 I started 01:11:57.000 --> 01:11:58.340 a trend. 01:11:58.900 --> 01:11:59.500 Dead 01:11:59.500 --> 01:12:00.400 close 01:12:00.400 --> 01:12:01.000 horses 01:12:01.000 --> 01:12:01.760 running 01:12:01.760 --> 01:12:02.660 crazy 01:12:02.660 --> 01:12:03.720 out of 01:12:03.720 --> 01:12:04.280 gates. 01:12:04.280 --> 01:12:05.660 Player 01:12:05.660 --> 01:12:06.640 haters 01:12:06.640 --> 01:12:07.620 in the 01:12:07.620 --> 01:12:08.280 metal 01:12:08.280 --> 01:12:08.980 learning 01:12:08.980 --> 01:12:09.940 how to 01:12:09.940 --> 01:12:10.280 create. 01:12:11.280 --> 01:12:12.280 Big 01:12:12.280 --> 01:12:13.020 belly 01:12:13.020 --> 01:12:14.020 well, he 01:12:14.020 --> 01:12:14.760 said he 01:12:14.760 --> 01:12:15.660 was a 01:12:15.660 --> 01:12:16.520 man from 01:12:16.520 --> 01:12:17.480 L.A. 01:12:17.480 --> 01:12:18.940 He 01:12:18.940 --> 01:12:19.640 seemed 01:12:19.640 --> 01:12:20.460 okay 01:12:20.460 --> 01:12:21.660 and so 01:12:21.660 --> 01:12:22.480 assigned 01:12:22.480 --> 01:12:23.620 me away. 01:12:24.360 --> 01:12:24.980 So 01:12:24.980 --> 01:12:25.620 there 01:12:25.620 --> 01:12:26.340 were my 01:12:26.340 --> 01:12:27.280 friends 01:12:27.280 --> 01:12:28.120 and then 01:12:28.120 --> 01:12:28.860 I took 01:12:28.860 --> 01:12:29.820 it easy. 01:12:30.780 --> 01:12:31.740 Everybody 01:12:31.740 --> 01:12:33.920 said they 01:12:33.920 --> 01:12:35.240 never would 01:12:35.240 --> 01:12:36.540 believe me. 01:12:36.900 --> 01:12:37.900 I paid 01:12:37.900 --> 01:12:38.500 no 01:12:38.500 --> 01:12:40.080 attention 01:12:40.080 --> 01:12:41.240 to the 01:12:41.240 --> 01:12:41.940 very 01:12:41.940 --> 01:12:43.120 end. 01:12:44.920 --> 01:12:46.000 Oh, yeah. 01:12:46.520 --> 01:12:47.240 I think 01:12:47.240 --> 01:12:48.240 started 01:12:48.240 --> 01:12:49.560 a trend. 01:13:15.080 --> 01:13:16.120 So 01:13:16.120 --> 01:13:16.720 that 01:13:16.720 --> 01:13:17.520 all my 01:13:17.520 --> 01:13:18.480 friends 01:13:18.480 --> 01:13:19.340 and then 01:13:19.340 --> 01:13:20.060 I took 01:13:20.060 --> 01:13:21.100 it easy. 01:13:22.020 --> 01:13:22.940 Everybody 01:13:22.940 --> 01:13:25.140 said they 01:13:25.140 --> 01:13:26.440 never would 01:13:26.440 --> 01:13:27.740 believe me. 01:13:28.100 --> 01:13:29.140 I paid 01:13:29.140 --> 01:13:29.680 no 01:13:29.680 --> 01:13:31.280 attention 01:13:31.280 --> 01:13:32.440 to the 01:13:32.440 --> 01:13:33.120 very 01:13:33.120 --> 01:13:35.120 end. 01:13:36.120 --> 01:13:37.260 Oh, yeah. 01:13:37.620 --> 01:13:38.460 I think 01:13:38.460 --> 01:13:39.380 I started 01:13:39.380 --> 01:13:40.760 a trend. 01:13:40.760 --> 01:13:44.200 go to 01:13:44.200 --> 01:13:48.740 . 01:13:48.740 --> 01:13:54.860 go to 01:13:54.920 --> 01:13:59.920 the 01:13:59.920 --> 01:14:04.280 one. 01:14:04.340 --> 01:14:08.380 Oh, yeah.